NYT Treats Judge Napolitano with Kid Gloves

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For some reason, New York Times writer Brian Stelter goes very easy on Judge Andrew Napolitano in this article about Napolitano’s new freakshow on Fox Business; for example, there’s no mention of the fact that Napolitano has featured conspiracy nutjob and 9/11 Truther Alex Jones as a guest on “Freedom Watch” (introducing him as “the one, the only, the great Alex Jones”): Andrew Napolitano Comes to Fox Business Network.

The Web was essentially an incubator for Mr. Napolitano, who has been a legal commentator for Fox known as “the judge” for more than a decade. “Freedom Watch” started as a weekly webcast on FoxNews.com early in 2009, and later ramped up its production to several days a week.

On the webcasts, Mr. Napolitano discussed libertarian hot topics like states’ rights, excessive overseas spending and draconian drug laws.

This month, Fox confirmed that he was getting a weekly TV show, beginning on Saturday mornings and replaying in prime time on Saturdays and Sundays.

The first TV episode was billed as a “Tea Party summit,” with appearances by the Fox pundit Sarah Palin; Representative Ron Paul, Republican of Texas; and his son Rand Paul, a Republican and candidate in Kentucky for the United States Senate. (The elder Mr. Paul endorsed and wrote a forward for Mr. Napolitano’s most recent book.)

Napolitano’s show has been one of the main promoters of Alex Jones, Ron Paul, and general pseudo-libertarian neo-Confederate bad craziness; he’s not just a “libertarian,” he’s flat-out nuts and associates with very bad people. It’s puzzling why the New York Times doesn’t provide any of this context, in a curiously neutral article.

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162 comments
1 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:22:40am

OT: One of the most insane bullshit laws to ever be considered:
[Link: www.escapistmagazine.com...]

2 insanity police  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:22:54am

I remember watching him when he was supposed to be the voice of law and reason. Now he has gone off the deep end. Wacko conpiracy theorists and rantings are his jurisdiction.

3 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:24:37am

they stole conservative from me, now another fooktard is going to ruin libertarian for me. I guess I'm just DISsed off.

(Decline to State)

4 OldnGrumpy  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:24:58am

Its getting harder and harder to get worked up about these nutjobs,there are just so damned many of them.They are like cockroaches,you shine the light of truth on them and they just scatter,a little while later they are back,you squish em like a roach and 15 pop up to take their place.

Feh.

5 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:25:02am

re: #1 pharmmajor

OT: One of the most insane bullshit laws to ever be considered:
[Link: www.escapistmagazine.com...]

well considering that the internet was partially created to serve as a means of communication during a crises... yes this is suspect.

6 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:29:13am

re: #1 pharmmajor

OT: One of the most insane bullshit laws to ever be considered:
[Link: www.escapistmagazine.com...]

Arrrrgh.

7 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:31:03am

Back on topic, I think the Times is attempting deal with a steadily declining readership. The economic reality is that they need some right wing readers to survive.

8 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:32:38am

re: #7 brookly red

Didn't the moonies put the Times up for sale?

9 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:32:54am

re: #1 pharmmajor

OT: One of the most insane bullshit laws to ever be considered:
[Link: www.escapistmagazine.com...]

Not to be the looney for the day, but one could imagine scenarios where such a thing would be needed. (I.e., a full-on cyber-attack by China)

One could also imagine more scenarios where such a thing could be abused.

10 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:35:10am

re: #8 allegro

Didn't the moonies put the Times up for sale?

/for sale: elderly terminally ill show dog.

11 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:36:37am

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

Not to be the looney for the day, but one could imagine scenarios where such a thing would be needed. (I.e., a full-on cyber-attack by China)

One could also imagine more scenarios where such a thing could be abused.

/all your internet are belonging to us...

12 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:37:14am

You want to know the biggest threat to US Cyber security? A entrenched mindset of document and report rather than proactive aggressive implementation of industry standards and addressing of real threats.

13 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:37:54am

re: #6 Charles

The actual bill is here.

The problem - one of many - is that this would elevate things like a virus or malware to national cyber emergency status because they could conceivably shut down computer systems or cause other problems in disrupting internet activities. It looks like it is far too expansive for the potential issues, but at the same time finally gets some attention on a critical infrastructure that should have some kind of contingency plan in place for a coordinated or distributed attack against national assets attached or on the Internet.

14 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:38:07am

re: #6 Charles

Arrrgh.

Is that "Arrrgh" in response to the proposal, or my bringing it up here?

15 Jimmah  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:38:21am
Napolitano’s show has been one of the main promoters of Alex Jones and general pseudo-libertarian neo-Confederate bad craziness; he’s not just a “libertarian,” he’s flat-out nuts and associates with very bad people. It’s puzzling why the New York Times doesn’t provide any of this context, in a curiously neutral article.

There is wingnuttery afoot at the NYT. Not the liberal monoculture that some would have us believe.

16 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:38:49am

Can't a man just say Arrrgh from time to time?

Perhaps he was feeling piratey.

17 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:39:48am

re: #14 pharmmajor

Is that "Arrrgh" in response to the proposal, or my bringing it up here?

It's garbage. It comes from Alex Jones.

I guess it's fitting that the first comment in a thread about the mainstreaming of Alex Jones is a story that he originated.

18 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:40:20am

re: #16 Fozzie Bear

Can't a man just say Arrrgh from time to time?

Perhaps he was feeling piratey.

And if I were to say Capt Brownbeard of the pirate ship, the Jolly Rogering, wants you to swab the poop deck, what then?

19 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:40:23am

re: #16 Fozzie Bear

Can't a man just say Arrrgh from time to time?

Perhaps he was feeling piratey.

and what ever happened to Charlie Brown anyhow?

20 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:41:24am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And if I were to say Capt Brownbeard of the pirate ship, the Jolly Rogering, wants you to swab the poop deck, what then?

Lower the yarrrrd arrrrm and get t' swabbin', mateys.

21 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:41:37am

re: #19 brookly red

and what ever happened to Charlie Brown anyhow?

He turned into a Democratic Senator and is still trying to kick Lucy's football.

22 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:41:50am

re: #19 brookly red

and what ever happened to Charlie Brown anyhow?

Got arrested for assault when he said screw it and kicked Lucy instead.

23 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:41:53am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And if I were to say Capt Brownbeard of the pirate ship, the Jolly Rogering, wants you to swab the poop deck, what then?

Chorus:
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
There was fuck all else to do

24 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:42:16am

re: #9 Fozzie Bear

Does Al Gore own an internet kill switch?

25 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:42:37am

re: #24 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does Al Gore own an internet kill switch?

Dude, he invented it. /

26 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:42:50am

re: #17 Charles

It's garbage. It comes from Alex Jones.

I guess it's fitting that the first comment in a thread about the mainstreaming of Alex Jones is a story that he originated.

Que?

Alex Jones' spin is garbage. But the bill itself, as proposed, is quite real.

27 darthstar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:42:50am

re: #17 Charles

It's garbage. It comes from Alex Jones.

I guess it's fitting that the first comment in a thread about the mainstreaming of Alex Jones is a story that he originated.

I looked at that link and laughed out loud...President Obama wants the keys to the internets, and Joe Lieberman is giving them to him! OMGZQ!

28 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:43:34am

re: #24 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does Al Gore own an internet kill switch?

His prototype did!
/

29 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:43:41am

re: #13 lawhawk

The actual bill is here.

The problem - one of many - is that this would elevate things like a virus or malware to national cyber emergency status because they could conceivably shut down computer systems or cause other problems in disrupting internet activities. It looks like it is far too expansive for the potential issues, but at the same time finally gets some attention on a critical infrastructure that should have some kind of contingency plan in place for a coordinated or distributed attack against national assets attached or on the Internet.

My objection to the stories making the rounds is not that the bill doesn't deserve criticism -- it probably does. (But there's no doubt that it's an attempt to address a very real and very serious national security vulnerability.)

My objection is to the hysterical spin being promoted by wingnut blogs and the Alex Jones crew.

30 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:43:50am

re: #24 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does Al Gore own an internet kill switch?

dude as they figured out in Iran, if you turn off the electricity no internet.

31 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:43:58am

re: #23 brookly red

Chorus:
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
Friggin' in the riggin'
There was fuck all else to do

Rum, sodomy and the lash?

32 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:44:12am

There does need to be serious consideration of how best to deal with electronic attack on our infrastructure, the sooner the better, Alex Jones' crazy ideas notwithstanding.

33 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:44:34am

re: #32 Fozzie Bear

There does need to be serious consideration of how best to deal with electronic attack on our infrastructure, the sooner the better, Alex Jones' crazy ideas notwithstanding.

agree completely

34 darthstar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:44:58am

re: #24 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does Al Gore own an internet kill switch?

He's got his hand on the coil wire next to the distributor cap as we speak.

35 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:45:42am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rum, sodomy and the lash?

calm down guy, calm down...

36 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:45:42am

re: #17 Charles

It's garbage. It comes from Alex Jones.

I guess it's fitting that the first comment in a thread about the mainstreaming of Alex Jones is a story that he originated.

Bullshit can get halfway across the country before the truth even gets out the door. I await with weary resignation the "OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!1" stories on Fox about this piece of drek. I bet Glenn Beck even give it its own blackboard for a day. [facepalm]

37 subsailor68  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:46:30am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rum, sodomy and the lash?

Mr. Churchill, is that you?

;-)

38 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:46:59am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rum, sodomy and the lash?

Winny, is that you?

/Let's see if anyone gets this one.

39 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:47:22am

re: #35 brookly red

calm down guy, calm down...

But its friday!

40 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:47:29am

re: #37 subsailor68

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

41 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:47:33am

re: #29 Charles

My objection to the stories making the rounds is not that the bill doesn't deserve criticism -- it probably does. (But there's no doubt that it's an attempt to address a very real and very serious national security vulnerability.)

My objection is to the hysterical spin being promoted by wingnut blogs and the Alex Jones crew.

Dude, I first heard about this from an entertainment and gaming website, which is the link I provided. That's pretty far from right-wing.

42 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:47:33am

re: #27 darthstar

I looked at that link and laughed out loud...President Obama wants the keys to the internets, and Joe Lieberman is giving them to him! OMGZQ!

That's one aspect of the story that is extra scary to Alex Jones (and his new friends). Lieberman is a Jew and a supporter of Israel. They are the ones who secretly run the banks and manipulate the world. They are the ones responsible for hoaxes like 9-11 to start wars to distract attention from their other evil plots.

43 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:48:04am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rum, sodomy and the lash?

What are the worst names for a supervillain trio?

44 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:48:31am

It is worth noting that widespread use of strong (1024+ bit) crypto could go a long way toward securing not only our national infrastructure against electronic attack, but also toward reducing the prevalence of identity theft and other similar crimes.

The government has been one of the chief impediments to this, and it saddens me, because it really is a solved problem. It's just that implementing that solution has ancillary implications, such as neutering the ability of certain agencies to spy on people.

45 darthstar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:48:40am

England's got a new goalie in today...wonder why?

46 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:48:54am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But its friday!

oh that's right... some people actually still have jobs. My bad have a great time & don't lash & drive.

47 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:48:54am

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

Winny, is that you?

/Let's see if anyone gets this one.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

48 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:49:31am

re: #43 pharmmajor

What are the worst names for a supervillain trio?

/Barack, Nancy & Harry?

I had to...

49 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:50:25am

re: #43 pharmmajor

What are the worst names for a supervillain trio?

No, that would be Warren Mears, Jonathan Levinson, and Andrew Wells.

50 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:50:45am

re: #47 HoosierHoops

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

SMACK!

51 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:51:34am

re: #29 Charles

My objection to the stories making the rounds is not that the bill doesn't deserve criticism -- it probably does. (But there's no doubt that it's an attempt to address a very real and very serious national security vulnerability.)

My objection is to the hysterical spin being promoted by wingnut blogs and the Alex Jones crew.

Sorry I forgot to include this in my last response, but it's also being criticized over at Huffington Post ([Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...] so it's not just the far right that's opposed to this.

As for the original topic, just let me say that Alex Jones and Andrew Napolitano are a bunch of whackjobs who can go f*ck themselves.

52 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:52:10am

re: #51 pharmmajor

Sorry I forgot to include this in my last response, but it's also being criticized over at Huffington Post ([Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...] so it's not just the far right that's opposed to this.

As for the original topic, just let me say that Alex Jones and Andrew Napolitano are a bunch of whackjobs who can go f*ck themselves.

Now you're back on track!

53 TampaKnight  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:52:13am

The Judge began as a fairly level headed Fox News legal contributor (for cases that involved legal battles), but since then apparently tasted the appeal of airtime via libertarian counterviews and hitched his wagon to the Ron Paul machine.

54 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:52:44am

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, that would be Warren Mears, Jonathan Levinson, and Andrew Wells.

On that note, do you think Joss Whedon will ever do a Buffy/Firefly crossover?

55 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:53:20am

re: #51 pharmmajor

Sorry I forgot to include this in my last response, but it's also being criticized over at Huffington Post ([Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...] so it's not just the far right that's opposed to this.

As for the original topic, just let me say that Alex Jones and Andrew Napolitano are a bunch of whackjobs who can go f*ck themselves.

If Alex Jones has his "journalistic" hands on this story, it doesn't matter who else is covering it... it's tainted and deserves no coverage. I guess Jones is managing to get to the liberal too.

56 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:55:58am

Gotta go, BBL.

57 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:56:13am

To give an example of how the Government IT mindset runs today, here is an example.

System A is scanned for possible vulnerabilites. A vulnerabilty is discovered. A check of the system reveals that software X was installed on the system. This information is then passed on the the Security office.

The security office then determines that the vulnerability is not applicable to the network because software X is not part of the contract, so therefore, does not exist according to the contract and does not merit further action.

Repeat ad nauseum.

58 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:57:48am

re: #54 pharmmajor

On that note, do you think Joss Whedon will ever do a Buffy/Firefly crossover?

Probably not, but look for a few of his regulars to show up in The Avengers. Early word is that Nathan Fillion will be playing Hank Pym.

59 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:58:38am

bbl folks

60 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 11:59:45am

re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If true, that's just sad. If I ran my office's servers that way, I'd be fired.

61 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:01:09pm

re: #60 Fozzie Bear

If true, that's just sad. If I ran my office's servers that way, I'd be fired.

For me, its job security.

62 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:02:15pm

re: #60 Fozzie Bear

If true, that's just sad. If I ran my office's servers that way, I'd be fired.

now just apply that logic to every other gubermint branch... scary no?

63 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:02:42pm

Ugh.

I'm trying to find a way to sandbox everything adobe on the systems here. The acrobat reader has been the vector of more than one attempted intrusion here. It's just garbage, from a security standpoint.

64 Nimed  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:03:07pm

Every once in a while, Alex Jones manages to get a serious (and unsuspecting) guest on his show. I strongly recommend his interview with Joe Stiglitz on youtube. It's hilariously similar to a sitcom 'misunderstanding'.

65 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:04:08pm

re: #63 Fozzie Bear

Ugh.

I'm trying to find a way to sandbox everything adobe on the systems here. The acrobat reader has been the vector of more than one attempted intrusion here. It's just garbage, from a security standpoint.

I never use Reader. It's big, slow, and not secure. Apple's Preview rocks.

66 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:04:22pm

re: #63 Fozzie Bear

Ugh.

I'm trying to find a way to sandbox everything adobe on the systems here. The acrobat reader has been the vector of more than one attempted intrusion here. It's just garbage, from a security standpoint.

well why not tai chi them... let them intrude & direct them some place unpleasant?

67 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:05:03pm

re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To give an example of how the Government IT mindset runs today, here is an example.

System A is scanned for possible vulnerabilites. A vulnerabilty is discovered. A check of the system reveals that software X was installed on the system. This information is then passed on the the Security office.

The security office then determines that the vulnerability is not applicable to the network because software X is not part of the contract, so therefore, does not exist according to the contract and does not merit further action.

Repeat ad nauseum.

I beg to differ, at least in regards to the National Renewable Energy Lab, a DOE lab, where I worked for years. Nothing was allowed on the infrastructure, whether workstations or servers that was not part of the supported applications or utilities.

If something was found, it was removed by IT. Upgrades we were a workstation = Windows, servers = Unix and Windows shop, and no upgrades of operating systems went up without at least 6 month beta testing (we were an official Oracle and Microsoft beta test site).

We had a security department that would shut us down if they received a security directive from the DOE that was already late in getting to us and required attention.

I was in IT for over 30 years and I never saw a more secure shop than the IT department at NREL. And from what I gather, these rules and regulations are supposed to be followed for all DOE labs.

Whether other labs IT department were as well run as ours, I can't be sure, but I know following wise and proper procedures is possible and saw it realtime, first hand.

68 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:05:32pm

A few years ago, there was a lizard who was somehow convinced that every government system was a hardened Unix system, with a special OS and in a secret network set up, rendering them all but invulnerable to hacking.

I got a really good laugh out of that one.

69 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:06:27pm

re: #65 Charles

I never use Reader. It's big, slow, and not secure. Apple's Preview rocks.

Yeah, my problem is lawyers demand that they be able to run whatever they want on their computers.

.... and I have to clean up the giant steaming pile of issues they create.

I am on the verge of just saying "no adobe products whatsoever, under any circumstances, period." and getting them all a commercial third party product to read PDF's.

70 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:07:05pm

re: #63 Fozzie Bear

Ugh.

I'm trying to find a way to sandbox everything adobe on the systems here. The acrobat reader has been the vector of more than one attempted intrusion here. It's just garbage, from a security standpoint.

You talking about your own PC or for users?

71 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:07:50pm

Meanwhile, here in Baltimore, the knee-jerk anti-taxers have scored a great victory for the people of this city, one that will hasten the decline of my town and put scores of people out of work.

The city council narrowly defeated a horrific four-cent bottle tax that would have raised enough money to keep some essential services going, such as sanitation work.

So all those deposit-free (because Maryland has never instituted a deposit law) bottles of glorified tap water from Coke and Pepsi that people throw on the sidewalks will stay there until some citizen picks them up out of the goodness of his heart. Vacant lots will be abandoned. More people will flee Baltimore in disgust. And people will lose their jobs.

Over four cents per bottle.

Fiscal responsibility!

72 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:08:04pm

By the way, Brian Donovan over at True/Slant already has beaten everyone to the punch in commenting on the "internet kill switch" idea:

Joe Lieberman Proposes Internet Kill Switch, World Proposes Joe Lieberman Kill Switch

Concern over Lieberman’s reckless desires to legislate are being felt abroad as well. “I met Joe once,” remembers King Abdullah of Jordan. “He’s a crazy motherfucker. I can’t believe you people almost made him the Vice President! I think about that every night before I go to sleep. Probably why I started drinking again… ”

///

73 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:08:07pm

re: #70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You talking about your own PC or for users?

For the attorneys. Just a simple PDF reader, secure, and yet one that handles forms and all the bells and whistles.

Got any recommendations?

74 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:08:37pm

re: #69 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, my problem is lawyers demand that they be able to run whatever they want on their computers.

... and I have to clean up the giant steaming pile of issues they create.

I am on the verge of just saying "no adobe products whatsoever, under any circumstances, period." and getting them all a commercial third party product to read PDF's.

Have you checked your security policy to see if their is a way to disbale it there? Maybe resetting the default rights so only certain groups can run it?

75 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:10:41pm

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

For the attorneys. Just a simple PDF reader, secure, and yet one that handles forms and all the bells and whistles.

Got any recommendations?

You could check out Foxit Reader.

76 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:11:36pm

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, here in Baltimore, the knee-jerk anti-taxers have scored a great victory for the people of this city, one that will hasten the decline of my town and put scores of people out of work.

The city council narrowly defeated a horrific four-cent bottle tax that would have raised enough money to keep some essential services going, such as sanitation work.

So all those deposit-free (because Maryland has never instituted a deposit law) bottles of glorified tap water from Coke and Pepsi that people throw on the sidewalks will stay there until some citizen picks them up out of the goodness of his heart. Vacant lots will be abandoned. More people will flee Baltimore in disgust. And people will lose their jobs.

Over four cents per bottle.

Fiscal responsibility!

Where is your city making budget cuts to help out the situation of lack of funds?

77 darthstar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:16:03pm

More trouble for Barton...or more "make yourself look rational" outrage from his fellow republicans...

Alabama Republican Jo Bonner called on Rep. Joe Barton to resign his post as top Republican on the Energy and Commerce Committee Friday – a day after the Texas Republican apologized to BP for the way the government has treated the company and then retracted the apology.

Bonner called the retraction “at best a half-hearted apology, trying, in my opinion, to save his position on one of the most influential committees in Congress.”

78 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:16:18pm

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

Where is your city making budget cuts to help out the situation of lack of funds?

Among other things, non-essential services like police and firefighting.

79 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:17:17pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder

Among other things, non-essential services like police and firefighting.

/ I thought you took care of that stuff your self :)

80 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:17:21pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder

Among other things, non-essential services like police and firefighting.

Oh, the obvious places for private enterprise to fill in then.

///

81 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:17:41pm

re: #71 Cato the Elder

The city council narrowly defeated a horrific four-cent bottle tax that would have raised enough money to keep some essential services going, such as sanitation work

That doesn't give much hope for the proposed 25 cent fee for plastic bags in Baltimore then. Do you know anything about that?

82 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:17:57pm

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have you checked your security policy to see if their is a way to disbale it there? Maybe resetting the default rights so only certain groups can run it?

Little by little, I am impressing upon the attorneys here the need for security. There's only about 15 workstations here, it's a small firm. I'm the informal IT guy (actually I'm here for legal research purposes, but I'm the tech guy by default) and the owners of the workstations are the partners, in part, and I have yet to fully impress upon them the need for uniformity in certain areas. It's hard to give your bosses orders, even when it's good for them.

Group policies are sadly out of the question. They will use alternatives if I really push on the issue, so that's the tack I have to take. It's part IT, part diplomacy. And it's all part-time, while I'm not doing other things.

I finally got the partners to stop using iPhones, and agree not to use them at work, subsequent to one of them getting hacked. They are just far too insecure to use in this kind of work.

83 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:18:28pm

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

For the attorneys. Just a simple PDF reader, secure, and yet one that handles forms and all the bells and whistles.

Got any recommendations?

Foxit? I have no idea how secure it is, but anything should be better than adobe.

Maybe get them off Windoz and introduce them to Linux.

84 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:18:51pm

Once again, Obama proves he hates private enterprise.
///

Obama administration to create 'do not pay' list to bar shady contractors

President Obama is ordering creation of a "do not pay" list to keep shady contractors from getting government business.

In a just-issued presidential memo, the president gives federal agencies 90 days to come up with procedures for scrubbing data bases for signs of past fraud before cutting any checks.

The effort is a response to well-documented examples of government agencies continuing to do business with known bad actors. The reason: agencies often haven't had access to -- or bothered to consult -- records that would alert them to past records of fraud.

85 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:19:07pm

re: #81 allegro

That doesn't give much hope for the proposed 25 cent fee for plastic bags in Baltimore then. Do you know anything about that?

That died last year.

86 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:19:08pm

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

Where is your city making budget cuts to help out the situation of lack of funds?

Many governmental jurisdictions operate on a shoestring; this is absolutely true, and people who don't believe it are fooling themselves. There is a bit of waste; but it's small potatoes, really, compared to an overall budget.

Jurisdictions are perfectly able to make budget cuts, but of course, that results in LESS SERVICE and that always makes people really mad, much easier to complain about the need for budget cuts, without really sucking it up and doing without government services people have grown accustomed to.

The proposed tax Cato is talking about seems to me to be very easy to avoid, if a person doesn't like it - drink your own water from your own tap, and don't buy the bottled stuff.

87 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:19:09pm

re: #83 b_sharp

Foxit? I have no idea how secure it is, but anything should be better than adobe.

Maybe get them off Windoz and introduce them to Linux.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah... I wish. Not going to happen. Some of these guys are just barely ok with windows.

88 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:19:11pm

re: #76 Walter L. Newton

Where is your city making budget cuts to help out the situation of lack of funds?

In NYC we just eliminate the V line & re-routed the M to cover... the average commute will be increased by 2-3 minutes.

89 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:20:19pm

re: #85 Cato the Elder

That blows. The California Assembly just passed a bill to outright ban the damn things. Good on 'em.

90 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:20:55pm

re: #82 Fozzie Bear

Little by little, I am impressing upon the attorneys here the need for security. There's only about 15 workstations here, it's a small firm. I'm the informal IT guy (actually I'm here for legal research purposes, but I'm the tech guy by default) and the owners of the workstations are the partners, in part, and I have yet to fully impress upon them the need for uniformity in certain areas. It's hard to give your bosses orders, even when it's good for them.

Group policies are sadly out of the question. They will use alternatives if I really push on the issue, so that's the tack I have to take. It's part IT, part diplomacy. And it's all part-time, while I'm not doing other things.

I finally got the partners to stop using iPhones, and agree not to use them at work, subsequent to one of them getting hacked. They are just far too insecure to use in this kind of work.

So I'm guessing a baseline build, centralized patch management and firewalls are right out then.

91 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:21:14pm

re: #78 Cato the Elder

Among other things, non-essential services like police and firefighting.

Not to worry... Obama is asking for 50 billion more in stimulus funds to pay for more services like firefighters, police and teacher. Of course, he gave a ton of money away last year for those same services, to cities and states all over the country, and yet, if you do some googling you will find that the cities and states went right on cutting those departments. What happened to the money?

Want to bet it wound up in the "pockets" of the administration layers of these departments, moved around to politicians favorite projects and a slew of other buckets where the money was deposited... and never getting to the places it was intended for?

Wanna bet? Can you say kleptocrats? I can.

92 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:21:46pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

Many governmental jurisdictions operate on a shoestring; this is absolutely true, and people who don't believe it are fooling themselves. There is a bit of waste; but it's small potatoes, really, compared to an overall budget.

Jurisdictions are perfectly able to make budget cuts, but of course, that results in LESS SERVICE and that always makes people really mad, much easier to complain about the need for budget cuts, without really sucking it up and doing without government services people have grown accustomed to.

The proposed tax Cato is talking about seems to me to be very easy to avoid, if a person doesn't like it - drink your own water from your own tap, and don't buy the bottled stuff.

The people of Baltimore, like people everywhere in this country, want every imaginable service, but don't want to pay for it.

"Don't tax him
Don't tax me.
Tax the man
Behind that tree!"

93 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:22:06pm

re: #81 allegro

That doesn't give much hope for the proposed 25 cent fee for plastic bags in Baltimore then. Do you know anything about that?

We don't have a bag fee here but I went ahead and got some of those cloth bags, anyhow.
They hold more, are easier to hold onto, and, well - it just makes sense.

My grandmother and my mother reused EVERYTHING.
We of the younger generations do not.

We had to get our mower repaired, and found one repair place in town.
Most people just go out and get a new mower.
Sheesh.
We are a wasteful bunch.

94 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:22:28pm

re: #86 reine.de.tout

See... re: #91 Walter L. Newton

95 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:22:43pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So I'm guessing a baseline build, centralized patch management and firewalls are right out then.

Yeah. No chance. I have converted two of the younger lawyers to linux, who allowed me to install SSH and manage their workstations for them.

The rest are still on XP/Vista/7 and refuse to budge, so I do what I can with the hodgepodge mess.

96 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:22:46pm

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

Not to worry... Obama is asking for 50 billion more in stimulus funds to pay for more services like firefighters, police and teacher. Of course, he gave a ton of money away last year for those same services, to cities and states all over the country, and yet, if you do some googling you will find that the cities and states went right on cutting those departments. What happened to the money?

Want to bet it wound up in the "pockets" of the administration layers of these departments, moved around to politicians favorite projects and a slew of other buckets where the money was deposited... and never getting to the places it was intended for?

yup that should be enough to push the layoffs back till after the midterms...

Wanna bet? Can you say kleptocrats? I can.

97 KingKenrod  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:23:21pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Once again, Obama proves he hates private enterprise.
///

Obama administration to create 'do not pay' list to bar shady contractors

Shunning a business with a bad reputation is a key tenet of free enterprise. Lots of these business survive because of official corruption and the flow of taxpayer dollars. It's nice to have the Feds on board and active in this area!

98 brookly red  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:23:37pm

re: #96 brookly red

that was weird... I said

yup that should be enough to push the layoffs back till after the midterms...

99 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:24:17pm

re: #92 Cato the Elder

The people of Baltimore, like people everywhere in this country, want every imaginable service, but don't want to pay for it.

"Don't tax him
Don't tax me.
Tax the man
Behind that tree!"

Absolutely.

I worked for State government, and I know how it is, it was very frustrating.

Don't like the long lines? Don't blame the employees for being idiots (though some may be).
Blame "budget cuts" that result in chronic understaffing given the number of customers that need to be served. Understaffing by ONE position - just one position - will result in an office going from running just fine, to long lines and back-ups 100% of the day.

100 freetoken  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:24:29pm

re: #89 allegro

Plastic bags are pretty trivial in the overall environmental problems we face.

I would laugh, but it's too sad a phenomenon for me to really savor, at all the people I see at the store bringing in their cloth bags, having driven to the stores in their cars.

Their one trip via automobile is more destructive than a year's worth of plastic bags I take from the store, simply because I walk there.

101 Four More Tears  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:24:30pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

We don't have a bag fee here but I went ahead and got some of those cloth bags, anyhow.
They hold more, are easier to hold onto, and, well - it just makes sense.

My grandmother and my mother reused EVERYTHING.
We of the younger generations do not.

We had to get our mower repaired, and found one repair place in town.
Most people just go out and get a new mower.
Sheesh.
We are a wasteful bunch.

Not that I'm trying to excuse our behavior, but we have a lot of things that are cheaper to replace than repair.

102 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:24:36pm

re: #7 brookly red

They're not doing it to survive, they're doing it to make money! There's big money in re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That's seems stupid. How about a 'Do Not Hire' list so there's no contract in the first place that gets partially complete?

103 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:24:49pm

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, here in Baltimore, the knee-jerk anti-taxers have scored a great victory for the people of this city, one that will hasten the decline of my town and put scores of people out of work.

The city council narrowly defeated a horrific four-cent bottle tax that would have raised enough money to keep some essential services going, such as sanitation work.

So all those deposit-free (because Maryland has never instituted a deposit law) bottles of glorified tap water from Coke and Pepsi that people throw on the sidewalks will stay there until some citizen picks them up out of the goodness of his heart. Vacant lots will be abandoned. More people will flee Baltimore in disgust. And people will lose their jobs.

Over four cents per bottle.

Fiscal responsibility!

Here in Michigan we have had a 10-cent deposit bottle deposit law for about 25 years. You will never, ever see a discarded soft drink or beer can or bottle.

104 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:25:26pm

re: #95 Fozzie Bear

Yeah. No chance. I have converted two of the younger lawyers to linux, who allowed me to install SSH and manage their workstations for them.

The rest are still on XP/Vista/7 and refuse to budge, so I do what I can with the hodgepodge mess.

Yeah, you're pretty much screwed. Try studying the Security + certification material, it might help you out some.

105 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:25:33pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

We don't have a bag fee here but I went ahead and got some of those cloth bags, anyhow.
They hold more, are easier to hold onto, and, well - it just makes sense.

I've been doing that for several years, mostly since the day my bottle of wine broke through a flimsy bag and smashed on the sidewalk. Priorities, yanno. Cloth bags are so much better. I do get weird looks when I shop someplace the first couple of times, with the bag kid giving me questioning WTF look.

106 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:26:05pm

re: #75 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You could check out Foxit Reader.

IIRC, the EULA demands consent to install the ASK toolbar (and to refrain from disabling it --hint hint).

107 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:27:31pm

re: #101 JasonA

Not that I'm trying to excuse our behavior, but we have a lot of things that are cheaper to replace than repair.

Many things are ALMOST as cheap to replace than repair.
And that's where the problem is. People would rather spend a few extra bucks and get a new one, than just go ahead and pay for the repair. Try to find a lawnmower repair shop in your town. Ver few do this work anymore.

108 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:27:42pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

We don't have a bag fee here but I went ahead and got some of those cloth bags, anyhow.
They hold more, are easier to hold onto, and, well - it just makes sense.

My grandmother and my mother reused EVERYTHING.
We of the younger generations do not.

We had to get our mower repaired, and found one repair place in town.
Most people just go out and get a new mower.
Sheesh.
We are a wasteful bunch.

Just an aside to the plastic bag stuff. Many supermarkets will no pay you 5 cents for every bag you bring yourself, canvas bags or recycling your already used plastic bags... you may have come across this...

Don't think this is some altruistic "save the earth," we are green mindset on the corporation that owns those stores... it's a bottom line... cost... money...

They actually save money by encouraging you to bring your own bags. The price per plastic bag has gone up enough to actually effect the bottom line... for every canvas bag you use, the store saves 4-5 plastic bags, which cost more than the 5 cents they credit you with.

We you extrapolate the cost over hundreds of stores (as in the case of Kroger brand stores where I work)... you can see the business reason for the "bring your own bag campaign."

109 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:27:43pm

re: #100 freetoken

Plastic bags are pretty trivial in the overall environmental problems we face.

I would laugh, but it's too sad a phenomenon for me to really savor, at all the people I see at the store bringing in their cloth bags, having driven to the stores in their cars.

Many, probably most, people don't have the option of walking to a store for groceries. As far as plastic bags, they actually are an enormous problem which is many countries are banning the things or taxing them to get people to use reusable bags.

110 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:27:46pm

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, you're pretty much screwed. Try studying the Security + certification material, it might help you out some.

Part of the problem is that I'm only sort of trained in this area. I have a comp sci degree, but my skills mostly center around writing programs, not administering networks.

I could go on and on about the best way to write an algorithm to solve a certain mathematical problem, but this stuff really is a human issue. I feel like a robot doing psychology, sometimes.

111 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:28:09pm

re: #103 Alouette

Here in Michigan we have had a 10-cent deposit bottle deposit law for about 25 years. You will never, ever see a discarded soft drink or beer can or bottle.

I didn't know you were from Michigan. My home state! I visited Marshall, my family's old home town, last year.

112 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:28:22pm

re: #105 allegro

I've been doing that for several years, mostly since the day my bottle of wine broke through a flimsy bag and smashed on the sidewalk. Priorities, yanno. Cloth bags are so much better. I do get weird looks when I shop someplace the first couple of times, with the bag kid giving me questioning WTF look.

I just bought some cloth bags, and plan to get more, and since then I have noticed how many other people are using them.

I want to find a string bag for Zedushka (the kind they used to have in Russia, called "voyska" bags) because he keeps his meds in plastic bags all around his bed, like a homeless person.

113 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:28:50pm

re: #106 abolitionist

IIRC, the EULA demands consent to install the ASK toolbar (and to refrain from disabling it --hint hint).

Well, it has been a long while I installed it, so I guess I forgot that part.

114 rwmofo  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:29:22pm

Looks like the President is burning the bridge over the pond.

"He is already one of the least popular US presidents of modern times, not only in the eyes of the American people, but now the people of Britain as well."

Obama is in the majors, but really belongs down in A-Ball.

115 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:29:35pm

re: #95 Fozzie Bear

Yeah. No chance. I have converted two of the younger lawyers to linux, who allowed me to install SSH and manage their workstations for them.

The rest are still on XP/Vista/7 and refuse to budge, so I do what I can with the hodgepodge mess.

Show them the list of Windoz security patches compared to Linux's and put a dollar figure on it.

I had to go back to Windows from Linux because my customers all use a proprietary financial accounting package that only runs on Windows so I have to know how to diagnose, debug and correct Windows. I run Win7 and have WinXP and Win server 2003 in virtual boxes. I also have Ubuntu in a virtual box just for old times sake.

116 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:29:44pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

Just an aside to the plastic bag stuff. Many supermarkets will no pay you 5 cents for every bag you bring yourself, canvas bags or recycling your already used plastic bags... you may have come across this...

Don't think this is some altruistic "save the earth," we are green mindset on the corporation that owns those stores... it's a bottom line... cost... money...

They actually save money by encouraging you to bring your own bags. The price per plastic bag has gone up enough to actually effect the bottom line... for every canvas bag you use, the store saves 4-5 plastic bags, which cost more than the 5 cents they credit you with.

We you extrapolate the cost over hundreds of stores (as in the case of Kroger brand stores where I work)... you can see the business reason for the "bring your own bag campaign."

Yes, the local walmart doesn't pay you, but they do collect the bags for recycling.

And the cost thing - that was part of my decision, too.

If a lot of customers get and use the cloth bag, and the store can reduce what it has to pay for the plastic bags, well - the store's prices will stay down longer.

I love the cloth bags.

117 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:30:00pm

re: #112 Alouette

I want to find a string bag for Zedushka (the kind they used to have in Russia, called "voyska" bags) because he keeps his meds in plastic bags all around his bed, like a homeless person.

LOL, is this a guy thing? My late husband did the same thing.

118 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:30:16pm

re: #105 allegro

I've been doing that for several years, mostly since the day my bottle of wine broke through a flimsy bag and smashed on the sidewalk. Priorities, yanno. Cloth bags are so much better. I do get weird looks when I shop someplace the first couple of times, with the bag kid giving me questioning WTF look.

On days when I forget to bring the cloth bag, I have to stop the checkout people from doubling the plastic bag for a soft drink and a sandwich.

119 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:31:31pm

re: #112 Alouette

I just bought some cloth bags, and plan to get more, and since then I have noticed how many other people are using them.

I want to find a string bag for Zedushka (the kind they used to have in Russia, called "voyska" bags) because he keeps his meds in plastic bags all around his bed, like a homeless person.

These sorts of string bags?

120 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:31:31pm

re: #117 allegro

LOL, is this a guy thing? My late husband did the same thing.

It's an old man thing.

121 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:32:44pm

re: #110 Fozzie Bear

Part of the problem is that I'm only sort of trained in this area. I have a comp sci degree, but my skills mostly center around writing programs, not administering networks.

I could go on and on about the best way to write an algorithm to solve a certain mathematical problem, but this stuff really is a human issue. I feel like a robot doing psychology, sometimes.

Never got a degree, all my training was from my USMC days. Check the cert material and it can give you some ammo to build your case and ideas to document risk management. At the very least, you can get something down to CYA when something finally does crash them.

122 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:33:51pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

Yes, the local walmart doesn't pay you, but they do collect the bags for recycling.

And the cost thing - that was part of my decision, too.

If a lot of customers get and use the cloth bag, and the store can reduce what it has to pay for the plastic bags, well - the store's prices will stay down longer.

I love the cloth bags.

I don't. When I do occasionally bag, such as when I work express lane, or we are short on baggers and I'll bag a sale myself after totally out... the front end is not set up to handle those bags... they are awkward to fill fast, there is no way to support them (as the plastic bags are supported in those wire frames)... all in all, it's a logistic thing, but we can't service the customers as fast as we can using the plastic bags... and once again, there is a bottom line aspect... slow service will translate to pissed off customers... a catch 22 some times.

123 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:33:55pm

re: #119 reine.de.tout

These sorts of string bags?

Yeah but lots cheaper.

124 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:34:26pm

Just gotta get my push in for jute bags if you're looking for reusable shopping bags. Jute is an organically grown crop, mostly in the poorest parts of the planet. Really durable and it can be composted when it's met its end.

(/end tree hugger promo)

125 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:34:33pm

re: #105 allegro

I've been doing that for several years, mostly since the day my bottle of wine broke through a flimsy bag and smashed on the sidewalk. Priorities, yanno. Cloth bags are so much better. I do get weird looks when I shop someplace the first couple of times, with the bag kid giving me questioning WTF look.

My wife collects the damn things. We must have 15 of those cloth bags. She uses them for everything, she has even been known to carry her purse in one.

126 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:35:09pm

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

I don't. When I do occasionally bag, such as when I work express lane, or we are short on baggers and I'll bag a sale myself after totally out... the front end is not set up to handle those bags... they are awkward to fill fast, there is no way to support them (as the plastic bags are supported in those wire frames)... all in all, it's a logistic thing, but we can't service the customers as fast as we can using the plastic bags... and once again, there is a bottom line aspect... slow service will translate to pissed off customers... a catch 22 some times.

The walmart bags have loops in them that fit the bag holder where the plastic ones are. I just slip my bags onto the holder while I'm being rung up - takes just a second, and I've never had to use more than 4.

127 webevintage  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:35:32pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rum, sodomy and the lash?

Best Pogues CD?

128 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:35:42pm

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

I don't. When I do occasionally bag, such as when I work express lane, or we are short on baggers and I'll bag a sale myself after totally out... the front end is not set up to handle those bags... they are awkward to fill fast, there is no way to support them (as the plastic bags are supported in those wire frames)... all in all, it's a logistic thing, but we can't service the customers as fast as we can using the plastic bags... and once again, there is a bottom line aspect... slow service will translate to pissed off customers... a catch 22 some times.

That is an issue I've encountered. Why I help with either the bagging or always hold the bags open. It actually speeds the process over the old way.

129 webevintage  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:36:55pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

The walmart bags have loops in them that fit the bag holder where the plastic ones are. I just slip my bags onto the holder while I'm being rung up - takes just a second, and I've never had to use more than 4.

I keep buying them because I keep forgetting the ones I already have sitting in the van when I go into shop.

130 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:37:06pm

re: #123 Alouette

Yeah but lots cheaper.

Here are some cheaper ones.

131 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:37:33pm

re: #129 webevintage

I keep buying them because I keep forgetting the ones I already have sitting in the van when I go into shop.

Yeah, I've had to do that a time or two, myself.

132 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:38:14pm

re: #115 b_sharp

Show them the list of Windoz security patches compared to Linux's and put a dollar figure on it.

I had to go back to Windows from Linux because my customers all use a proprietary financial accounting package that only runs on Windows so I have to know how to diagnose, debug and correct Windows. I run Win7 and have WinXP and Win server 2003 in virtual boxes. I also have Ubuntu in a virtual box just for old times sake.

Yeah, I strongly personally prefer GNU/Linux, as that is the OS on which I learned how to program. But, there is alot of software out there that doesn't exist natively for Linux, and then there is the issue of teaching people how to use it properly who don't know jack about computers. I don't use anything but GNU/Linux at home, but then again, I can't expect all the attorneys to get comfortable using W.I.N.E. and virtual machines to work around compatibility issues, so I just do what I can.

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Never got a degree, all my training was from my USMC days. Check the cert material and it can give you some ammo to build your case and ideas to document risk management. At the very least, you can get something down to CYA when something finally does crash them.

I may end up getting a cert, but more likely is me going to law school and leaving these headaches to someone else. Regardless, my ass is covered. The partners have acknowledged that I can only do what I have done, and they have been reminded I was hired as a paralegal. If the poop hits the fan, they won't fire me. I will, however, have to clean up the mess.

133 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:38:17pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

The walmart bags have loops in them that fit the bag holder where the plastic ones are. I just slip my bags onto the holder while I'm being rung up - takes just a second, and I've never had to use more than 4.

So do some of the bags that come across our check stands, and the ones we sell have the loops... but not all of them have the loops, people considerer anything that looks like a bag as a... well bag, no matter how it's constructed... all in all, the large number of different style bags and bags that are not really bags designed for grocery shopping slows down the check out process and makes it much more difficult to offer speedy service.

Like I say, a catch 22...

134 webevintage  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:38:23pm

re: #114 rwmofo

Looks like the President is burning the bridge over the pond.

"He is already one of the least popular US presidents of modern times, not only in the eyes of the American people, but now the people of Britain as well."

Obama is in the majors, but really belongs down in A-Ball.

What a bunch of BS.....

135 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:39:11pm

re: #132 Fozzie Bear

I'm available for a modest fee.

136 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:39:27pm

re: #133 Walter L. Newton

So do some of the bags that come across our check stands, and the ones we sell have the loops... but not all of them have the loops, people considerer anything that looks like a bag as a... well bag, no matter how it's constructed... all in all, the large number of different style bags and bags that are not really bags designed for grocery shopping slows down the check out process and makes it much more difficult to offer speedy service.

Like I say, a catch 22...

Yep.
I've seen the cashier trying to fill a bag without putting it on the loops, and it is very awkward. Which is why I just go ahead and set mine up.

137 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:40:41pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

The walmart bags have loops in them that fit the bag holder where the plastic ones are. I just slip my bags onto the holder while I'm being rung up - takes just a second, and I've never had to use more than 4.

And consider this... the plastic bags are supported OPEN, by three sides... the back loop and the two side, making it easy to deposit items in the bag.

The cloth bags, even with the loop on the back, flop around and don't even become stable until you have placed various items in them.

I can't believe there would have been a time in my life I would be discussing the dynamics and mechanics of filling bags at a supermarket.

That's what makes life so cool... so many things to learn all the time.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:41:31pm

re: #58 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably not, but look for a few of his regulars to show up in The Avengers. Early word is that Nathan Fillion will be playing Hank Pym.

Yum.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:41:58pm

re: #64 Nimed

Every once in a while, Alex Jones manages to get a serious (and unsuspecting) guest on his show. I strongly recommend his interview with Joe Stiglitz on youtube. It's hilariously similar to a sitcom 'misunderstanding'.

Has one ever done a runner?

140 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:43:18pm

re: #135 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm available for a modest fee.

Where in the country are you located, in a general sense?

141 Jimmah  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:44:05pm

Out for the day. Later folks:)

142 Kragar  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:44:31pm

re: #140 Fozzie Bear

Where in the country are you located, in a general sense?

San Diego

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:44:57pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

We don't have a bag fee here but I went ahead and got some of those cloth bags, anyhow.
They hold more, are easier to hold onto, and, well - it just makes sense.

My grandmother and my mother reused EVERYTHING.
We of the younger generations do not.

We had to get our mower repaired, and found one repair place in town.
Most people just go out and get a new mower.
Sheesh.
We are a wasteful bunch.

We are.

My problem is that the reusable bags are so useful that I use them for EVERYTHING, and then find when I go to the store that they are all full of student papers, or books I was going to to take the book exchange, or paper to be sorted from the hall table, or clothes to take the dry cleaner...

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:47:27pm

re: #114 rwmofo

Looks like the President is burning the bridge over the pond.

"He is already one of the least popular US presidents of modern times, not only in the eyes of the American people, but now the people of Britain as well."

Obama is in the majors, but really belongs down in A-Ball.

The Brits can damn well cope.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:48:56pm

re: #118 Cato the Elder

On days when I forget to bring the cloth bag, I have to stop the checkout people from doubling the plastic bag for a soft drink and a sandwich.

Personal favorite--drugstores appear to train their people to wrap tampons in a separate bag before putting them into the main bag--God forbid that some dude on the street should see the Tampax logo through my plastic bag.

146 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:51:12pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Personal favorite--drugstores appear to train their people to wrap tampons in a separate bag before putting them into the main bag--God forbid that some dude on the street should see the Tampax logo through my plastic bag.

Haha!

There was a time when I was mildly uncomfortable buying girly products for my better half. Now I see it as a great opportunity for comedic effect whenever anybody else is similarly uncomfortable.

147 freetoken  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:52:25pm

re: #137 Walter L. Newton

The cloth bags, even with the loop on the back, flop around and don't even become stable until you have placed various items in them.

Yup, I watch at the store as clerks try to fill those bags. For the first few seconds it looks like a wrestling match.

One of the things I liked about Japan were the grocery stores - every customer bags their own food. It makes much more sense, and the stores set up a system where the customer once bagging is no longer in the line, so the line doesn't slow down.

148 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:52:27pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Personal favorite--drugstores appear to train their people to wrap tampons in a separate bag before putting them into the main bag--God forbid that some dude on the street should see the Tampax logo through my plastic bag.

That might be a common training tip for personal products. When I buy soap, deodorant, or shaving cream it often ends up in a separate bag.

149 allegro  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:53:28pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Personal favorite--drugstores appear to train their people to wrap tampons in a separate bag before putting them into the main bag--God forbid that some dude on the street should see the Tampax logo through my plastic bag.

Seriously?! Jeez, what an immature society we inhabit. I haven't had the pleasure of needing that particular product since a very welcome hysterectomy, but sheesh.

150 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:54:54pm

re: #147 freetoken

Yup, I watch at the store as clerks try to fill those bags. For the first few seconds it looks like a wrestling match.

One of the things I liked about Japan were the grocery stores - every customer bags their own food. It makes much more sense, and the stores set up a system where the customer once bagging is no longer in the line, so the line doesn't slow down.

I pack my own canvas bags, or at least start to, while the clerk is running items through the scanner. And I do this after running my debit card through the reader as well. So the clerk often just ends up packing the second canvas bag while I finish up the first. Fairly efficient as these things go since we're both actively doing parts of the process at the same time.

151 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:57:55pm

re: #147 freetoken

Yup, I watch at the store as clerks try to fill those bags. For the first few seconds it looks like a wrestling match.

One of the things I liked about Japan were the grocery stores - every customer bags their own food. It makes much more sense, and the stores set up a system where the customer once bagging is no longer in the line, so the line doesn't slow down.

Same thing basically in Europe. And the cashier sits on a stool with a back, the register and scanning equipment is at waist level, very ergonomic.

Some stores (like Safeway) have check stands that are set up with the duel blets... before and after the register and scanning area. The checker stands, but the customer empties their own bascart (yes, that the new official name for a shopping cart). The checker only has to handle the item as it is in front of them, almost the same as the European system, but not sitting.

At King Sooper (a Kroger brand store), we have to bend over and empty the bascart ourselves and the item goes right over the scanner, then down a belt to the bagger.

And yes, in Europe, the customer bags their own items. And no plastic bags.

152 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:58:39pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

BELTS (not blets)

153 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:59:27pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

We are.

My problem is that the reusable bags are so useful that I use them for EVERYTHING, and then find when I go to the store that they are all full of student papers, or books I was going to to take the book exchange, or paper to be sorted from the hall table, or clothes to take the dry cleaner...

You can't be my wife, she's sitting here on the couch.
(puzzled)

154 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 12:59:50pm

I feel like an ass if i'm not helping to bag my own stuff. Generally I try to get it done before somebody has to come over and help. It just feels weird for some reason, like it's my job.

155 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:05:11pm

re: #154 Fozzie Bear

I feel like an ass if i'm not helping to bag my own stuff. Generally I try to get it done before somebody has to come over and help. It just feels weird for some reason, like it's my job.

It is probably faster now a days, since so many grocery stores have cut staff and baggers have to "bounce" between check lanes... after about 8:00 pm in the evening... we usually have 1 checker, two clerks working the front end and the parking lot (and they are also doing cleaning of the 15 check stands and shop backs and other misc. duties) and one checker working the Self-Scan station which has 6 robots.

We have 15 check stands and a 6 station Self scan, and even at 5:00 pm on a friday, I've seen the head clerk call people from produce and the deli to bag and check...

You see... we have computers telling the managers how many people they need on any given day and at any given time. It's called Engineered Labor Management System... otherwise known as some over priced management software sold to Kroger by some over priced consultant which tries to take the place of the human decision making process... all in an effort to save money...

Guess what... customer suffers... big time.

156 freetoken  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:06:40pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

re: #150 oaktree

These days I almost always go to the self-checkout, so I can bag my own stuff. It's faster and makes more sense.

Don't know what they are doing in CO, but here the local Safeway-owned chain is eliminating the quick-service lines (the "fast lanes" which were never that fast) once the self-checkout stands are up and running. I guess it saves each store one body count of labor.

157 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:07:35pm

re: #156 freetoken

re: #150 oaktree

These days I almost always go to the self-checkout, so I can bag my own stuff. It's faster and makes more sense.

Don't know what they are doing in CO, but here the local Safeway-owned chain is eliminating the quick-service lines (the "fast lanes" which were never that fast) once the self-checkout stands are up and running. I guess it saves each store one body count of labor.

See my re: #155 Walter L. Newton

158 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:10:24pm

re: #156 freetoken

re: #150 oaktree

These days I almost always go to the self-checkout, so I can bag my own stuff. It's faster and makes more sense.

Don't know what they are doing in CO, but here the local Safeway-owned chain is eliminating the quick-service lines (the "fast lanes" which were never that fast) once the self-checkout stands are up and running. I guess it saves each store one body count of labor.

I work for Kroger... they have 28 branded stores... including convenience stores, department stores, jewelry store chain and grocery stores... over 300,000 employees... yes, every penny counts when you have that much of a labor pool.

159 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:11:34pm

And on those note... I have a five hour shift... Friday afternoon/evening... busy, busy, busy... see you all later...

160 freetoken  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:16:25pm

re: #158 Walter L. Newton

I work for Kroger... they have 28 branded stores...

Yes, same corporation here has the "Ralphs" and "Food4Less" brands. Their stores are the worse, and I avoid them. Most of their stores around here are cold, dirty, heartless, and quite uninviting. Sorry, but your corporation really sucks.

Nevertheless, I'm glad you've found a job which brings you some positive rewards.

161 pharmmajor  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 1:39:34pm

re: #114 rwmofo

Looks like the President is burning the bridge over the pond.

"He is already one of the least popular US presidents of modern times, not only in the eyes of the American people, but now the people of Britain as well."

Obama is in the majors, but really belongs down in A-Ball.

Right, and this is such a pressing concern because the effectiveness of a president isn't determined by the laws he implements or how he leads the nation in time of crisis, it's all about how popular he is. *sarcasm drips down*

162 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 18, 2010 2:56:13pm

"For some reason, New York Times writer Brian Stelter goes very easy on Judge Andrew Napolitano"

Hmmm I wonder what it could be....


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