Power to the Potato

Technology • Views: 3,789

Here’s some fascinating tech news from Israel, where researchers at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem have developed a new type of organic electric battery made from boiled potatoes.

Their findings have just been published in the Journal of Renewable and Sustainable Energy, and detail uses of the batteries in the developing world where infrastructure is lacking. The apparently highly efficient battery is made from zinc and copper electrodes and a potato slice which has been boiled. The act of boiling the potato increased the electric power around 10 fold in comparison to an untreated potato, giving it power for days, and sometimes weeks depending on the conditions.

This development will be a godsend in developing nations, because boiled potatoes are obviously much cheaper than conventional batteries, leave no waste, and are infinitely renewable.

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211 comments
1 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:23:54am

when they run out of juice, you can eat them....a twofer

2 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:24:08am

ireland, energy superpower

3 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:24:24am

"She blinded me with SCIENCE!"

4 Dom  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:25:51am

My idea was tethering little turbines to verminous animals and insects but this is way better. :D

5 Racer X  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:26:54am

Battery chips?

6 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:28:10am

For some reason I thought this was a story from The Onion. Garnish Anyone?

7 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:28:19am

I remember doing this in high school (circa late 60s), stringing a whole bunch of taters together to light a lightbulb. Took a bunch o' taters.

8 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:28:24am

re: #2 SpaceJesus
Idaho.

9 researchok  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:28:40am

This will make Idaho the next Texas.

10 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:28:53am

Zionist spud rays!

11 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:29:26am

re: #10 Killgore Trout
LOL

12 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:29:48am

*sniff, sniff* "Are you making dinner?"
"Nope, charging the batteries. Want some?"

13 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:31:17am

But how much energy does it take to boil the taters? One would have to burn a whole lot of trees to burn to boil the water to cook the taters for a few minutes of minimal electricity.

14 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:31:58am

re: #13 allegro

But how much energy does it take to boil the taters? One would have to burn a whole lot of trees to burn to boil the water to cook the taters for a few minutes of minimal electricity.

PIMF

15 Irenicum  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:32:01am

I wonder if they'll figure out a way to power spacecraft with them. Yeah, Spudnik.

16 Drogheda  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:33:03am

re: #1 albusteve

when they run out of juice, you can eat them...a twofer

Might not be too tasty. They'd be shot through with copper and zinc ions from the anode and cathode would they not?

17 researchok  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:33:09am

Mashed potato powered golf carts.

18 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:33:25am

If boling them increases their power, what untapped potential lies in french-frying them?

19 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:33:55am

I thot is was about power from the potato.
/nitpicking

20 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:34:52am

TuberMensch!

21 SixDegrees  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:34:56am

re: #1 albusteve

when they run out of juice, you can eat them...a twofer

Well, if you don't mind a little zinc and copper seasoning with your potato, sure.

leave no waste, and are infinitely renewable.

Well, the potatoes don't, but the zinc and copper electrodes are another matter. They degrade as current is drawn from the system, and need to be replaced and disposed of properly.

Interesting that boiling makes such a big difference in output. I'll have to find out why.

About 15 years ago, my kids had a potato-powered clock that ran off the same principle. And many decades ago, when I was a kid, we built something similar that managed to deflect a voltmeter needle. Not very useful; today's electronics require such a small amount of power, though, that they can actually do something with that trickle.

For all these reasons, I'm still trying to decide whether this article got lifted from The Onion. I keep expecting to see a picture of an iPhone with an Idaho Baker slapped on the back of it.

22 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:36:18am

Here's the Israeli company Yissum's website:

[Link: www.yissum.co.il...]

23 SixDegrees  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:37:20am

Here's the clock we had, apparently still in production.

24 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:37:34am

re: #21 SixDegrees

Well, the potatoes don't, but the zinc and copper electrodes are another matter. They degrade as current is drawn from the system, and need to be replaced and disposed of properly.

Interesting that boiling makes such a big difference in output. I'll have to find out why.

About 15 years ago, my kids had a potato-powered clock that ran off the same principle. And many decades ago, when I was a kid, we built something similar that managed to deflect a voltmeter needle. Not very useful; today's electronics require such a small amount of power, though, that they can actually do something with that trickle.

For all these reasons, I'm still trying to decide whether this article got lifted from The Onion. I keep expecting to see a picture of an iPhone with an Idaho Baker slapped on the back of it.

Can we not deep fry them in silica oil and develop micro-chip technology with sour cream and onion flavoring?

25 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:37:57am

re: #21 SixDegrees

I keep expecting to see a picture of an iPhone with an Idaho Baker slapped on the back of it.

how to make potatoes power an mp3 player

Youtube Video
26 Irenicum  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:41:34am

Mmm, technilicious!

27 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:42:37am

re: #24 ralphieboy

Can we not deep fry them in silica oil and develop micro-chip technology with sour cream and onion flavoring?

"What are running in that thing?"
"The next Lay's 'Barbecue' processor. Not the fastest on the market, but I'm not a fan of 'Salt & Vinegar.'"

28 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:44:10am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

how to make potatoes power an mp3 player

[Video]

I don't see a closed circuit (loop) there. The two sweet potatos are on the counter top, but only one wire appears to be connected to each one, and they don't touch each other.

29 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:44:13am

re: #27 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"What are running in that thing?"
"The next Lay's 'Barbecue' processor. Not the fastest on the market, but I'm not a fan of 'Salt & Vinegar.'"

The Brits have no end of off-the-wall flavo(u)rs for their "crisps", I remember encluntering roast beef-and-mustard flavo(u)r.

30 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:44:56am

re: #29 ralphieboy

The Brits have no end of off-the-wall flavo(u)rs for their "crisps", I remember encluntering roast beef-and-mustard flavo(u)r.

That...actually sounds kind of appealing.

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:47:29am

re: #30 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Actually, it does to me too. Roast beef and mustard rocks (back when)...

32 philosophus invidius  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:48:14am

The potato battery:
Image: 465848d-i1.0.jpg

33 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:48:21am

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Zionist spud rays!

First it was the felafel, now it's potatoes & batteries. Is there no limit to their evil powers of infiltration?? I'll bet there are hidden transmitters embedded in the potatoes that beam information directly back to Mossad headquarters!!1!11!!
//

34 Jerk  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:48:23am

re: #13 allegro

But how much energy does it take to boil the taters? One would have to burn a whole lot of trees to burn to boil the water to cook the taters for a few minutes of minimal electricity.

You could always use a water turbine or something similar. Batteries are meant for portability.

35 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:48:27am

re: #31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, it does to me too. Roast beef and mustard rocks (back when)...

I had to eat two packets just convince myself that anything could taste like that...

36 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:48:46am

re: #29 ralphieboy

roast beef-and-mustard flavo(u)r.

Roast beef and horseradish I get... but mustard? *choke*

37 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:49:51am

Just wait until they invent self-powered living-room furniture using (you guessed it) couch potatoes!

38 Drogheda  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:49:54am

re: #31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Actually, it does to me too. Roast beef and mustard rocks (back when)...

Mustard was my condiment of choice for roast beef sandwiches until I was introduced to a nice variety that used apple horseradish and red onions.

39 ruexperienced  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:50:41am

Great invention, but considering it was invented by Jews, the Middle East will refuse the technology and continue to live in their own feces, simply because they choose to do so.

This would be a huge boon to most of Africa, if their soil wasn't so arid and devoid of the ability to grow crops like potatoes in the first place.

Unfortunately, this will probably benefit Europe the most, the land of Jew hating "peace activists" and their ilk.

*SIGH*

40 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:52:31am

Spuds?

Spuds!

Youtube Video
41 lostlakehiker  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:53:39am

re: #1 albusteve

when they run out of juice, you can eat them...a twofer

Not quite. The operation of the battery involves zinc and copper ions, and too many of those will end up inside the potato.

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:54:22am

POTATO JOKE!

Guy goes to the beach, a friend tells him that if he puts a potato in his speedo, women will talk to him.

Doesn't work at all.

Later the friend says, "Uh... the potato's s'posed to go in the front."

43 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:54:48am

So we turn the corn into ethanol, make electricity with the potatoes. What is this a grand plan to starve the vegetarians?
///

44 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:54:58am

Hamas will figure out how to launch rockets and trigger explosives, and "the world" will cry that Israel is blockading potatoes from Gaza.

45 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:55:36am

Spuds...

46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:55:55am

re: #43 Rightwingconspirator

huh?

47 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:55:58am

Anything acidic can be used to make a battery.

They grow citrus in Israel too.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

48 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:57:43am

re: #46 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just kidding!

49 The Crack Staff @ Perkisabeast.com  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:58:39am

We've been playing with the renewable holy grail at that cute vocational school at the other end of Mass Ave. (M.I.T.) - anytime some crusading green shirt decides to get all wind and solar up in your piece, I invite you to get all magnetic levitating dipole fusion generator right back at em(though truth be told if Cambridge had any idea of the scary nuclear experiements happening within their city limits, heads would roll) I sometimes wonder why you never hear about this stuff and then I remember, it's not about cheap renewable energy, it is about control...

Your energy problems solved (experimentally)

50 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:58:46am

re: #37 ralphieboy

Just wait until they invent self-powered living-room furniture using (you guessed it) couch potatoes!

I think it's been done already, using a volatile fluid in a closed system. Body serves as the "hot" reservoir, and the ambient air as the "cold" reservoir. The fluid flow drives a mini-turbine/generator. The theoretical thermodynamic efficiency is only a few percent at most. A large temperature differential would not be comfortable.

51 lostlakehiker  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:58:54am

On a serious note, LED light bulbs can run on just a trickle. A few solar cells can stash enough juice in a conventional lead-acid battery for a couple of hours of reading.

Night, in central Africa, lasts 12 hours, month in month out. So a couple hours of reading is about all the use most people will need. Basic, minimal reading light is already radically cheaper than it used to be, even far from utility lines.

One difficulty with stringing power lines in Africa is that copper is valuable enough to be worth stealing. That's hindered the electrification of the Soweto district of Johannesburg.

52 Four More Tears  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:59:30am

A win for Hamas...ick.

Israel Eases Gaza Blockade, Will Allow In All Goods Except For Weapons

JERUSALEM — Israel's government decided Sunday to draw up a list of items banned from Gaza limited to weapons and materials deemed to have military uses and said the easing of the three-year-old blockade of the Palestinian territory would be implemented immediately.

The list of banned goods replaces an old list of allowed items that permitted only basic humanitarian supplies for the 1.5 million Gazans. Under the new system, the government said practically all non-military items can enter Gaza freely.

53 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 11:18:56am

Buy Idaho... Our Spuds produce more mw per spud than do Main Taters.
// Besides we grow more than they do.


Image: IDBLApot.jpg

54 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 11:19:01am

re: #50 abolitionist

I think it's been done already, using a volatile fluid in a closed system. Body serves as the "hot" reservoir, and the ambient air as the "cold" reservoir. The fluid flow drives a mini-turbine/generator. The theoretical thermodynamic efficiency is only a few percent at most. A large temperature differential would not be comfortable.

Well, I meant more like sofas that contain a built-in fridge/microwave so you don't have to get up to fetch or fix a snack...

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 11:21:17am

re: #51 lostlakehiker

On a serious note, LED light bulbs can run on just a trickle. A few solar cells can stash enough juice in a conventional lead-acid battery for a couple of hours of reading.

Night, in central Africa, lasts 12 hours, month in month out. So a couple hours of reading is about all the use most people will need. Basic, minimal reading light is already radically cheaper than it used to be, even far from utility lines.

One difficulty with stringing power lines in Africa is that copper is valuable enough to be worth stealing. That's hindered the electrification of the Soweto district of Johannesburg.


I was reading an article in a "New Yorker" magazine on the scrap metal industry about the rise in metal theft recently, and that there weems to be a correlation between the metal theft rate and methamphetamine use in many regions.

I guess you need to be a real meth head in the first place to have the patience to strip and pick apart thousands of feet of wiring to resell it to buy more meth...

56 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 11:37:13am

/ Sometimes, they actually need heavy transport.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Might get 1 or two MW out of that puppy.

57 Ojoe  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 11:39:32am

The power is coming from the zinc, not the potato.

58 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 11:50:44am

re: #55 ralphieboy

I was reading an article in a "New Yorker" magazine on the scrap metal industry about the rise in metal theft recently, and that there weems to be a correlation between the metal theft rate and methamphetamine use in many regions.

I guess you need to be a real meth head in the first place to have the patience to strip and pick apart thousands of feet of wiring to resell it to buy more meth...

Not really. Copper theft is a world wide problem. Do a Google/Yahoo search on it. While drugs may play a roll in it. Copper has become the dejure (siq) metal of interest. I can remember when Aluminum irrigation siphon tubes were the preferred metal in my area. We have seen an uptick in Copper theft here as well. In fact I did a few LGF posts about a couple of guys stealing a roll of copper wire, only to be busted because it had a GPS anit-theft device embedded in it to allow LEO to track it.

59 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:00:12pm

re: #57 Ojoe

The power is coming from the zinc, not the potato.

Actually the electrons come from ion exchange between dissimilar metals or compounds reacting through the acidic medium exactly like the lead acid battery in a car.

[Link: electronics.howstuffworks.com...]

60 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:00:42pm

re: #58 Bubblehead II

Was it you who did the live commentary on that chase?

61 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:01:28pm

re: #58 Bubblehead II

We have seen an uptick in Copper theft here as well.

A few years ago, I picked up the RV from storage, picked up guests, drove a couple of hours to a campsite to there discover that someone had ripped out the 50 amp power cable. The weekend was f**ked and it cost me about $150 to replace the damn thing. I'm still pissed off about that.

62 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:17:10pm

This is truly sad

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

There should be a balance of scientific,environmental and engineering experts not political hacks and media whores

63 theheat  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:22:41pm

Also from yissum, HUJI, School of Computer Science and Engineering Algorithm recognizes sarcasm with an accuracy rate of 80 percent.

Sarcasm is a useful way to blunt the impact of criticism by adding a twist of snide humor, as in this recent tweet: "Really love when the scope of a project I've been working on for a week changes in 10 min #sarcasm."

Without the help of a hash tag, though, people often miss the irony, especially when it's delivered online, where there are no contextual hints or social cues.

Yeah, right.
//

64 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:25:48pm

re: #62 OldnGrumpy

But I thought those scientist types were part of the liberal environmental conspiracy. And that science and scientists in general weren't to be trusted because belief in science was a godless liberal substitute for faith. Could FOX suddenly be advocating for trust in scientists?

Or could it just be tossing another pellet in a scattershot of outrage to keep feeding the audience more anger?

You decide.

65 thatthatisis  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:26:02pm

Potato power sounds really promising.

Now if we could figure out how to get power from zucchini, America is really saved.

66 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:26:55pm

re: #44 Alouette

Hamas will figure out how to launch rockets and trigger explosives, and "the world" will cry that Israel is blockading potatoes from Gaza.

Just what I was thinking.

67 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:27:07pm

I love potatoes this is very cool.

68 pharmmajor  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:29:02pm

Soon Russets will be found in stores next to the Duracells and Energizers.

69 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:32:45pm

re: #64 Renaissance_Man

But I thought those scientist types were part of the liberal environmental conspiracy. And that science and scientists in general weren't to be trusted because belief in science was a godless liberal substitute for faith. Could FOX suddenly be advocating for trust in scientists?

Or could it just be tossing another pellet in a scattershot of outrage to keep feeding the audience more anger?

You decide.

I could give f***-all about who's right,who's wrong,who gets kudos,who get political points or not,all I give a frig about is stopping the leak and cleaning up the mess.

Solve the problem first!

70 Obdicut  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:33:14pm

re: #62 OldnGrumpy

I don't think you understand the puprose of that panel, then. There's no big engineering mystery about what went wrong in the spill, or why efforts to contain it face challenges. What scientific question do you think the panel is supposed to answer?

One of the seven is an engineer, one of them is a scientist.

And that article is simply atrocious in the way it's written. Example:

the dean of Harvard's engineering and applied sciences school, has a prominent engineering background -- but it's in optics and physics

They use that as a criticism, but having an Engineering physics degree generall indicates you're someone who understands a broader physics background of applied science. It's the absolutely perfect person to be on a panel where the area of applied science requires someone who has interdisciplinary knowledge that encompasses the big picture of applied science, not just a narrow speciality. Fluid dynamics, which obviously apply hugely here, are part of fundamental physics and this guy would obviously have a great grasp of them.

Here's another guy heading up the panel:

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator William Reilly-- a GOP appointee. Gee, yeah, he's just a 'political hack'. No way the ex-head of the EPA would have anything to add.

Who are the names on the panel you specifically object to?

Well, actually, I have to leave for my honeymoon here, but you seem to be cramming a stick based on a very badly written article with an incredibly obvious bias. Give the panel a second look, see if your criticism is warranted.

71 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:34:40pm

Potato browser speed test

Youtube Video
72 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:37:33pm

re: #65 thatthatisis

Potato power sounds really promising.

Now if we could figure out how to get power from zucchini, America is really saved.

the potato is the battery... the power still has to come from somewhere. but it's all good.

73 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:44:38pm

re: #62 OldnGrumpy

This is truly sad

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

There should be a balance of scientific,environmental and engineering experts not political hacks and media whores

Amazing, not a single expert from the drilling industry, and not a single academic involved in drilling. Mostly policy and management types, with at least two who "urge bans on drilling."

74 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:46:20pm

re: #70 Obdicut

I don't think you understand the puprose of that panel, then. There's no big engineering mystery about what went wrong in the spill, or why efforts to contain it face challenges. What scientific question do you think the panel is supposed to answer?

One of the seven is an engineer, one of them is a scientist.

And that article is simply atrocious in the way it's written. Example:

They use that as a criticism, but having an Engineering physics degree generall indicates you're someone who understands a broader physics background of applied science. It's the absolutely perfect person to be on a panel where the area of applied science requires someone who has interdisciplinary knowledge that encompasses the big picture of applied science, not just a narrow speciality. Fluid dynamics, which obviously apply hugely here, are part of fundamental physics and this guy would obviously have a great grasp of them.

Here's another guy heading up the panel:

Environmental Protection Agency Administrator William Reilly-- a GOP appointee. Gee, yeah, he's just a 'political hack'. No way the ex-head of the EPA would have anything to add.

Who are the names on the panel you specifically object to?

Well, actually, I have to leave for my honeymoon here, but you seem to be cramming a stick based on a very badly written article with an incredibly obvious bias. Give the panel a second look, see if your criticism is warranted.

Good points,I should have looked deeper into who makes up the panel,the article only mentions 5,the only true politico/media whores are Graham and Beinecke(remember the Alar on apples bebunked fiasco)

75 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:50:04pm

re: #73 Bagua

Amazing, not a single expert from the drilling industry, and not a single academic involved in drilling. Mostly policy and management types, with at least two who "urge bans on drilling."

wow, I would guess that an industry expert would be an asset... perhaps one will be added later?

76 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:50:54pm

somewhere, Dan Quayle is smiling ...

Youtube Video
77 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:58:03pm

hoot!
Coco Montoya is coming to town
should I?

78 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:58:22pm

Are there only 5 members of the commission,I thought there were more.

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

79 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:58:28pm

re: #75 brookly red

wow, I would guess that an industry expert would be an asset... perhaps one will be added later?

Obama's bogus blue-ribbon oil spill panel has no expertise - and is poised to do his bidding

And from the article Oldngrumpy linked:

When the White House announced the commission, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar and others made compared it with the one that investigated the 1986 Challenger accident. This one, however, doesn't have as many technical experts.

The 13-member board that looked into the first shuttle accident had seven engineering and aviation experts and three other scientists. The 2003 board that looked into the Columbia shuttle disaster also had more than half of the panel with expertise in engineering and aviation.

Obama's panel has not a single member will drilling experience or expertise. Talk about a kangaroo court. This is it.

80 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 12:59:14pm

ooops forgot the /sarc tag

81 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:01:20pm

re: #75 brookly red

wow, I would guess that an industry expert would be an asset... perhaps one will be added later?

Not if your intention is to shut down drilling, not to regulate it.

82 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:05:01pm

re: #81 Bagua

Not if your intention is to shut down drilling, not to regulate it.

these are interesting times.

83 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:13:09pm

re: #82 brookly red

these are interesting times.

You'd think Obama would include one token drilling engineer on his panel of environmentalists. Just one.

84 lostlakehiker  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:14:35pm

re: #79 Bagua

Obama's bogus blue-ribbon oil spill panel has no expertise - and is poised to do his bidding

And from the article Oldngrumpy linked:

When the White House announced the commission, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar and others made compared it with the one that investigated the 1986 Challenger accident. This one, however, doesn't have as many technical experts.

The 13-member board that looked into the first shuttle accident had seven engineering and aviation experts and three other scientists. The 2003 board that looked into the Columbia shuttle disaster also had more than half of the panel with expertise in engineering and aviation.

Obama's panel has not a single member will drilling experience or expertise. Talk about a kangaroo court. This is it.

Jonathan Katz of Washington U. in St. Louis was removed from the panel after somebody noticed that he holds politically incorrect opinions on various political matters.

But so what? If you need a physicist with a top record as a generalist who takes on problems from all corners, you can't afford to be too picky. It's not like those guys are a dime a dozen.

85 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:15:30pm

re: #83 Bagua

You'd think Obama would include one token drilling engineer on his panel of environmentalists. Just one.

nah, I refer you to #81

86 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:16:21pm

I feel a rubber stamp coming

87 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:16:59pm

re: #83 Bagua

You'd think Obama would include one token drilling engineer on his panel of environmentalists. Just one.

well from Yahoo news: The White House said the commission will focus on the government's "too cozy" relationship with the oil industry. A presidential spokesman said panel members will "consult the best minds and subject matter experts" as they do their work.

by their own admission the commission is not being formed to actually solve the leak, but for policy reasons.

88 windsagio  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:17:33pm

*walks into the room, looks around, gasps, runs away!*

89 jordash1212  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:18:13pm
This development will be a godsend in developing nations, because boiled potatoes are obviously much cheaper than conventional batteries, leave no waste, and are infinitely renewable.

Just one problem. It's Israeli/Zionist/Jewish, which means there is something evil about it or part of the grand conspiracy of world domination.

90 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:18:18pm

re: #88 windsagio

*walks into the room, looks around, gasps, runs away!*

Welcome to Fox Nation.

91 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:19:18pm

re: #88 windsagio

*walks into the room, looks around, gasps, runs away!*

/damit! I told yous guys to hide the rope, sheesh.

92 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:20:29pm

re: #88 windsagio

*walks into the room, looks around, gasps, runs away!*

You'll be gasping and sputtering a great deal more come November.

93 Racer X  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:22:52pm

re: #49 The Crack Staff @ Perkisabeast.com

Lakers Baby!

94 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:23:11pm

re: #90 Gus 802

Welcome to Fox Nation.

hey, I'm insulted!

95 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:24:23pm

re: #90 Gus 802

Welcome to Fox Nation.

don't look at me I was quoting Yahoo not Fox :)

96 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:25:26pm

re: #73 Bagua

Amazing, not a single expert from the drilling industry, and not a single academic involved in drilling. Mostly policy and management types, with at least two who "urge bans on drilling."

Actually:

Should there not be at least two panels?

One focusing on policy & management, including management of MMS.

The second with those knowledgeable about drilling operations focusing on that aspect.

People who are not involved with drilling are woefully uninformed; there needs to be some drilling experts somewhere, and yes, industry does need to be represented.

97 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:25:55pm

re: #90 Gus 802

Welcome to Fox Nation.

This is Obama's panel.

98 sagehen  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:26:02pm

Stuff like this is why people who care nothing about religion still want Israel for an ally and trade partner.

99 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:26:05pm

re: #96 reine.de.tout

Actually:

Should there not be at least two panels?

One focusing on policy & management, including management of MMS.

The second with those knowledgeable about drilling operations focusing on that aspect.

People who are not involved with drilling are woefully uninformed; there needs to be some drilling experts somewhere, and yes, industry does need to be represented.

one would think...

100 Racer X  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:26:47pm

re: #95 brookly red

don't look at me I was quoting Yahoo not Fox :)

You posted something critical of the president / current administration.

= automatic "Racist / Tea Partier / Fox Nation / Wingnut!" retort.

101 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:27:52pm

re: #96 reine.de.tout

Actually:

Should there not be at least two panels?

One focusing on policy & management, including management of MMS.

The second with those knowledgeable about drilling operations focusing on that aspect.

People who are not involved with drilling are woefully uninformed; there needs to be some drilling experts somewhere, and yes, industry does need to be represented.

Again, not if the intention is to shut down the activity being "studied."

102 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:29:13pm

anybody got the blues?
Joe B
Stop...live

Youtube Video
103 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:29:25pm

re: #97 Bagua

This is Obama's panel.

Will anyone protest this debacle?

104 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:29:50pm

re: #100 Racer X

You posted something critical of the president / current administration.

= automatic "Racist / Tea Partier / Fox Nation / Wingnut!" retort.

gee and here I thought Yahoo was pretty center of the road...

105 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:29:51pm

re: #100 Racer X

You posted something critical of the president / current administration.

= automatic "Racist / Tea Partier / Fox Nation / Wingnut!" retort.

Spot on.

106 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:30:24pm

re: #96 reine.de.tout

It's a bogus article and was debunked upthread but many seem to stick with the Fox News alternate reality anyways by imagining a Seekrit conspiracy to shut down those big mean oil companies. Here's the bios of the panel members: President Obama Announces Members of the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling Commission

There seems to be a fair amount of scientific and environmental expertise there. Nothing to get too exited about either way.

107 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:30:36pm

re: #101 Bagua

Again, not if the intention is to shut down the activity being "studied."

The Roi is telling me the industry is in a state of great confusion right now (well, duh).

There are some wells that have been given completion permits by MMS.
Then the Dept of the Interior calls and says no, the permit is withdrawn.
Then MMS calls back another day and says, oops, no, the permit is granted.

No one can figure out what's going on

108 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:30:56pm

re: #103 MandyManners

Will anyone protest this debacle?

I expect millions of voters will in 2012.

109 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:30:58pm

re: #103 MandyManners

Will anyone protest this debacle?

It's a bogus story but the wingnuts are upset about it.

110 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:31:11pm

re: #103 MandyManners

Will anyone protest this debacle?

some how I don't think big oil will be contributing many D's for a while...

111 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:32:35pm

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

112 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:34:08pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

It's a bogus article and was debunked upthread but many seem to stick with the Fox News alternate reality anyways by imagining a Seekrit conspiracy to shut down those big mean oil companies. Here's the bios of the panel members: President Obama Announces Members of the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling Commission

There seems to be a fair amount of scientific and environmental expertise there. Nothing to get too exited about either way.

Nonsense, not a single member with drilling expertise. That "fair amount of scientific and envioronmental expertise" is all environmentalists and climate change activists.

113 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:34:20pm

re: #102 albusteve

anybody got the blues?
Joe B
Stop...live


[Video]

Johnny Lang does

A Quitter Never Wins

Youtube Video
114 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:34:32pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

don't you think that maybe one person that had any real world drilling experience should have been included?

115 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:34:57pm

re: #110 brookly red

some how I don't think big oil will be contributing many D's for a while...

Sure they will. These large companies always hedge their bets and fund both parties. Republicans will get more money because the oil companies would much rather receive an apology than have to pay to clean up oil spills. The Global Warming denial is a big plus too. But it looks like the Dems will be running the show for a while so they'll get money too.

116 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:35:23pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

That is a typical partisan ignorance. You should be on Obama's kangaroo panel.

117 ReamWorks SKG  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:36:05pm

I'm going to try this with Matzoh Balls! It may work even better....

118 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:36:22pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

It's a bogus article and was debunked upthread but many seem to stick with the Fox News alternate reality anyways by imagining a Seekrit conspiracy to shut down those big mean oil companies. Here's the bios of the panel members: President Obama Announces Members of the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling Commission

There seems to be a fair amount of scientific and environmental expertise there. Nothing to get too exited about either way.

I'm not necessarily buying the "wants to shut it down" business.
However, it looks to me as if one member seems to have pertinent expertise:

Cherry A. Murray, Appointee for Member, National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling
Dr. Cherry Murray was appointed the Dean of the Harvard School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) and John A. and Elizabeth S. Armstrong Professor of Engineering and Applied Sciences in July 2009, and is currently the Past President of the American Physical Society. Dr. Murray’s expertise is in condensed matter and materials physics, phase transitions, light scattering and surface physics, including the study of soft condensed matter and complex fluids, as well as the management of science and technology. Previously, Dr. Murray was Principle Associate Director (2007-2009) and Deputy Director (2004-2007) for Science and Technology at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Dr. Murray joined Bell Laboratories in 1978 as a Staff Scientist, marking the beginning of a career that culminated in her position as Senior Vice President for Physical Sciences and Wireless Research at Lucent Technologies (2001-2004). Dr. Murray was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1999, to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2001, and to the National Academy of Engineering in 2002. She has served on more than 80 national and international scientific advisory committees, governing boards, and National Research Council (NRC) panels, including chairing the Division of Engineering and Physical Science of the NRC, and serving on the visiting committee for Harvard’s Department of Physics from 1993 to 2004. In 2002, Discover Magazine named Dr. Murray one of the “50 Most Important Women in Science.” Dr. Murray holds a Bachelor of Science (1973) and a Ph.D. (1978), both in Physics, from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The panel is tasked with preventing spills, and mitigating the effects. This group looks to be very good at being able to advise on mitigation. However, they do not, IMO, have nearly the experience needed to advise on prevention.

They truly do need some drilling expertise - or two panels. They're trying to wrap two complex issues with one panel, and I'm not sure it's the best approach.


Seriously - the do need to have someone with drilling expertise.

119 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:36:30pm

re: #114 brookly red

don't you think that maybe one person that had any real world drilling experience should have been included?

Of course he doesn't, he'd call them "oil industry shills". The idea is to shut down the oil industry, not drill safely.

120 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:36:59pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

I think the point flew over your head bro

121 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:37:22pm

re: #114 brookly red

don't you think that maybe one person that had any real world drilling experience should have been included?

Probably not, they are not there to figure out how to increase BP's profits. They are there to help clean up the spill. That's why there's an emphasis on environmental science and fluid dynamics, etc.

122 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:38:07pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

Low blow, Killgore, and uncalled for.

Again, these are two complex and complicated issues - mitigation of the effects of a spill once it's happened, and preventing spills from happening in the first place.

They need two panels, one for each issue.

123 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:38:39pm

re: #118 reine.de.tout

It is shut down reine. There will not be anymore deep-water drilling during the Obama administration. This panel will give the rubber stamp to that move.

124 OldnGrumpy  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:38:48pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

Bro if you read up the thread you'd see advocation for a balanced,multi field panel.

125 Racer X  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:39:00pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

Dr. Murray seems to be the smart one in the bunch. Depends on what the commission's desired outcome is. Looking at the aftermath and mitigating ecological damage - OK perhaps these guys aren't so bad.

Determining the cause and how to prevent another spill - not so much.

126 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:39:46pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Probably not, they are not there to figure out how to increase BP's profits. They are there to help clean up the spill. That's why there's an emphasis on environmental science and fluid dynamics, etc.

There are plenty of drilling experts employed by others than those in the oil industry. I don't see any folks like that on this panel. And, industry does indeed need at least one representative, if for no other reason, to provide information.

127 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:39:50pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Probably not, they are not there to figure out how to increase BP's profits. They are there to help clean up the spill. That's why there's an emphasis on environmental science and fluid dynamics, etc.

gee call me simple but I kinda thought figuring out how to turn it off would be the priority... but hey.

128 Reginald Perrin  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:40:07pm

re: #13 allegro

But how much energy does it take to boil the taters? One would have to burn a whole lot of trees to burn to boil the water to cook the taters for a few minutes of minimal electricity.

It doesn't take any energy to cook the potatoes if a solar cooker is used. They are easy to make, low cost and can even be made with recycled cardboard and foil from cigarette packages.
The potatoes probably could be used as animal feed after they run out of power.

129 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:40:15pm

re: #123 Bagua

It is shut down reine. There will not be anymore deep-water drilling during the Obama administration. This panel will give the rubber stamp to that move.

I hope this isn't so. I really do.

130 Racer X  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:40:30pm

re: #118 reine.de.tout

The panel is tasked with preventing spills, and mitigating the effects. This group looks to be very good at being able to advise on mitigation. However, they do not, IMO, have nearly the experience needed to advise on prevention.

They truly do need some drilling expertise - or two panels. They're trying to wrap two complex issues with one panel, and I'm not sure it's the best approach.

Seriously - the do need to have someone with drilling expertise.

What she said.

131 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:40:38pm

re: #127 brookly red

gee call me simple but I kinda thought figuring out how to turn it off would be the priority... but hey.

yeah, one would think.

132 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:41:08pm

re: #125 Racer X

Dr. Murray seems to be the smart one in the bunch. Depends on what the commission's desired outcome is. Looking at the aftermath and mitigating ecological damage - OK perhaps these guys aren't so bad.

Determining the cause and how to prevent another spill - not so much.

They know how to prevent another spill. Shut down the deep-water drilling industry. This has been done by executive decree already.

133 eightyfiv  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:41:31pm

re: #21 SixDegrees
...

For all these reasons, I'm still trying to decide whether this article got lifted from The Onion. I keep expecting to see a picture of an iPhone with an Idaho Baker slapped on the back of it.

No kidding.

You can also make batteries out of lemons... and pickles... and seawater...

Are consumable copper and zinc really that easy to come by in the developing world? And what about all those alligator clips hooking up the cells (which corrode if you're not careful and get them wet in the potato juice).

134 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:43:53pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

If you guys wanted a panel of creationists, global warming deniers and oil industry shills you should have run a better campaign.

This panel, as regards prevention, is the equivalent of a panel of creationists and global warming deniers. There's no one on that panel with enough expertise in drilling to be able to advice on how spill prevention can be accomplished during drilling operations.

135 Racer X  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:44:05pm

re: #132 Bagua

They know how to prevent another spill. Shut down the deep-water drilling industry. This has been done by executive decree already.

It seems to me there are many here that agree with this option. Like solar panels will appear out of thin air, and windmills will power the world next week.

We run on oil. That needs to change. It won't happen overnight.

136 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:45:06pm

re: #129 reine.de.tout

I hope this isn't so. I really do.

Reine, the "six month" moratorium was confirmed by the speech from the oval office. The rigs are departing and will not come back. That is a fait accompli. This commission will put the gold star on that decision.

137 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:47:44pm

re: #135 Racer X

It seems to me there are many here that agree with this option. Like solar panels will appear out of thin air, and windmills will power the world next week.

We run on oil. That needs to change. It won't happen overnight.

Have no fear. There will be no reduction in the use of oil. The only difference will be the money and jobs will flow to Brazil and Africa.

138 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:47:49pm

re: #136 Bagua

Reine, the "six month" moratorium was confirmed by the speech from the oval office. The rigs are departing and will not come back. That is a fait accompli. This commission will put the gold star on that decision.

Oh, but listen:

The Roi tells me Shell is holding onto to at least one rig. They are paying the rig and all salaries to sit idle for six months, so that they will have access to it when the moratorium is up.

I'm wondering if other companies might do the same?

139 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:48:39pm

re: #137 Bagua

Have no fear. There will be no reduction in the use of oil. The only difference will be the money and jobs will flow to Brazil and Africa.

And will continue to flow to Brazil and Africa as we end up buying more and more foreign imports.

140 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:48:39pm

re: #136 Bagua

Reine, the "six month" moratorium was confirmed by the speech from the oval office. The rigs are departing and will not come back. That is a fait accompli. This commission will put the gold star on that decision.

and of course the worst part is other countries will just keep drilling and selling us the oil...

141 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:50:22pm

Bagua - looks like this thread is now you and me and brookly - no one is interested. *sob*

142 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:51:08pm

re: #118 reine.de.tout

The panel is tasked with preventing spills, and mitigating the effects. This group looks to be very good at being able to advise on mitigation. However, they do not, IMO, have nearly the experience needed to advise on prevention.

They truly do need some drilling expertise - or two panels. They're trying to wrap two complex issues with one panel, and I'm not sure it's the best approach.


Seriously - the do need to have someone with drilling expertise.


Each of the members have staff and I'm sure they'll get recommendations from qualified people. Maybe it's best to not have an oil company represented on the panel so there's no conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety.
There's probably nothing outrageous about the panel. The fact that wingnuts are freaking out about confirms that for me. They are probably qualified to do what they're supposed to do.

143 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:51:33pm

re: #140 brookly red

and of course the worst part is other countries will just keep drilling and selling us the oil...

with far less regulation and safety concerning the environment...funny that eh?...something just doesn't make a whole lotta sense...wtf is going on?

144 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:52:51pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Each of the members have staff and I'm sure they'll get recommendations from qualified people. Maybe it's best to not have an oil company represented on the panel so there's no conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety.
There's probably nothing outrageous about the panel. The fact that wingnuts are freaking out about confirms that for me. They are probably qualified to do what they're supposed to do.


that's what we were told about Salazar too....your undying faith in BO and the feds is taking a hit

145 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:53:09pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Each of the members have staff and I'm sure they'll get recommendations from qualified people. Maybe it's best to not have an oil company represented on the panel so there's no conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety.
There's probably nothing outrageous about the panel. The fact that wingnuts are freaking out about confirms that for me. They are probably qualified to do what they're supposed to do.

Well, the fact that wingnuts are freaking out over it is NOT enough to keep me from looking at this critically.

There are two complex, complicated issues.
This panel looks to be perfect to advise on mitigation.
But nowhere near what it needs to be to advise on prevention.
We'll see - perhaps they will get the experts in there and get the information they need, I hope so.

But there's no reason, IMO, to dismiss the make-up of the panel and assume it's just fine just because wingnuts are freaking out.

Just my .02

146 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:53:13pm

re: #138 reine.de.tout

Oh, but listen:

The Roi tells me Shell is holding onto to at least one rig. They are paying the rig and all salaries to sit idle for six months, so that they will have access to it when the moratorium is up.

I'm wondering if other companies might do the same?

One out of thirty doesn't sound promising for the industry.

re: #141 reine.de.tout

Bagua - looks like this thread is now you and me and brookly - no one is interested. *sob*

They are busy chasing unicorns to find candy mountain.

147 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:53:47pm

re: #143 albusteve

with far less regulation and safety concerning the environment...funny that eh?...something just doesn't make a whole lotta sense...wtf is going on?

exactly what it looks like

148 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:54:01pm

re: #127 brookly red

gee call me simple but I kinda thought figuring out how to turn it off would be the priority... but hey.

Maybe you've missed the several million gallons of oil that are in the Gulf and on the shores NOW? This is not an either/or, zero sum game.

149 RayGunIsDead  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:54:52pm

Kilgore, you're obviously a fan of your alter ego?

150 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:55:58pm

re: #108 Bagua

I expect millions of voters will in 2012.

Or, November.

151 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:56:47pm

re: #148 allegro

Maybe you've missed the several million gallons of oil that are in the Gulf and on the shores NOW? This is not an either/or, zero sum game.

Mitigation experts have no clue how to turn it off. They only know how to get it cleaned up.

Drilling experts - now, they know how to drill the relief wells and get it turned off. I would not want to leave that to wildlife experts.

152 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:57:33pm

re: #149 RayGunIsDead

Kilgore, you're obviously a fan of your alter ego?

Sort of. I'm a big Vonnegut fan, Kilgore was his alter ego more than mine. I couldn't even write bad science fiction if I tried.

153 Funky_Gibbon  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:57:37pm

I guess this makes Harry Ramsdens a power station or something.

154 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:57:46pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Each of the members have staff and I'm sure they'll get recommendations from qualified people. Maybe it's best to not have an oil company represented on the panel so there's no conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety.

No one said "oil company represented", all that was needed was drilling engineers, those with actual knowledge. The bias of the people chosen is obvious. Your credulity is also obvious and telling.

There's probably nothing outrageous about the panel. The fact that wingnuts are freaking out about confirms that for me. They are probably qualified to do what they're supposed to do.

All a moonbat needs apparently.

155 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:59:13pm

5:00 time for a beer run...

156 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:59:17pm

re: #137 Bagua

Have no fear. There will be no reduction in the use of oil. The only difference will be the money and jobs will flow to Brazil and Africa.

IIR, someone posted an article within the past four months about our loaning Brazil money to explore or drill a known site.

157 Funky_Gibbon  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:59:28pm

re: #140 brookly red

and of course the worst part is other countries will just keep drilling and selling us the oil...

You could become more energy efficient. Less oil needed then.

158 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:59:35pm

re: #154 Bagua

All a moonbat needs apparently.

some people have reverse BDS....RBDS and it's just as corrosive

159 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:59:44pm

Meh. I read the description of the panel members, and while some of you are making valid criticisms, I'm going to wait until I see them in action before jumping to conclusions.

I also read a few wingnut blog posts about them, and it's pretty clear that what's really bothering a lot of those people is the fact that some of the members are strong environmentalists.

160 RayGunIsDead  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 1:59:55pm

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Sort of. I'm a big Vonnegut fan, Kilgore was his alter ego more than mine. I couldn't even write bad science fiction if I tried.

I like Vonnegut also. I have at least 15 of his books on my shelf.

Is that Hitchens in your avatar?

161 brookly red  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:00:42pm

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Sort of. I'm a big Vonnegut fan, Kilgore was his alter ego more than mine. I couldn't even write bad science fiction if I tried.

Don't me so modest, actually your fictional skills are quite impressive...

162 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:01:04pm

re: #158 albusteve

some people have reverse BDS...RBDS and it's just as corrosive


No, it's just a time saver. I don't take the outrageous outrages seriously enough to bother with anymore. They always end up being bogus so I don't pay attention.

163 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:01:11pm

re: #138 reine.de.tout

Oh, but listen:

The Roi tells me Shell is holding onto to at least one rig. They are paying the rig and all salaries to sit idle for six months, so that they will have access to it when the moratorium is up.

I'm wondering if other companies might do the same?

How many can afford to do that without production?

164 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:01:12pm

re: #160 RayGunIsDead

I like Vonnegut also. I have at least 15 of his books on my shelf.

Is that Hitchens in your avatar?

Yes.
Though, I liked the Buddha Hitchens better.
:)

165 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:01:33pm

re: #156 MandyManners

IIR, someone posted an article within the past four months about our loaning Brazil money to explore or drill a known site.

That is chicken feed. Brazil was getting ready to build about 20 deep-water platform, which would take years and cost billions. Those assets are floating to Brazil now. This is a windfall for Brazil.

166 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:01:54pm

re: #160 RayGunIsDead

I like Vonnegut also. I have at least 15 of his books on my shelf.

Is that Hitchens in your avatar?

Hitch's head on Buddha's body. They seemed a natural fit.

167 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:05:07pm

re: #165 Bagua

That is chicken feed. Brazil was getting ready to build about 20 deep-water platform, which would take years and cost billions. Those assets are floating to Brazil now. This is a windfall for Brazil.

One of ShortShit's buds.

168 RayGunIsDead  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:05:23pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

Hitch's head on Buddha's body. They seemed a natural fit.

Hitch and Vonnegut, there's a pattern there of some kind, I need think about it.

169 MandyManners  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:05:48pm

re: #165 Bagua

That is chicken feed. Brazil was getting ready to build about 20 deep-water platform, which would take years and cost billions. Those assets are floating to Brazil now. This is a windfall for Brazil.

How close are Morales and Chavez?

170 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:09:13pm

re: #168 RayGunIsDead

Hitch and Vonnegut, there's a pattern there of some kind, I need think about it.

I'm a godless drinker.

171 RayGunIsDead  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:11:10pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

I'm a godless drinker.

I am too. Not Vonnegut so much. He wasn't much of a drinker I hear.

172 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:11:24pm

re: #162 Killgore Trout

No, it's just a time saver. I don't take the outrageous outrages seriously enough to bother with anymore. They always end up being bogus so I don't pay attention.

Here's the text of the executive order which I'm sure few will read:

Executive Order-- National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling

I believe he has 2 more to pick if the current count of 5 is correct.

Commission "terminates 60 days after submitting its final report" and they do not have any authority. The purpose of the commission is to create a report for the president. The following section delineates the general limitations:

Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) To the extent permitted by law, and subject to the availability of appropriations, the Secretary of Energy shall provide the Commission with such administrative services, funds, facilities, staff, and other support services as may be necessary to carry out its mission.

(b) Insofar as the Federal Advisory Committee Act, as amended (5 U.S.C. App.) (the "Act"), may apply to the Commission, any functions of the President under that Act, except for those in section 6 of the Act, shall be performed by the Secretary of Energy in accordance with guidelines issued by the Administrator of General Services.

(c) Members of the Commission shall serve without any additional compensation for their work on the Commission, but shall be allowed travel expenses, including per diem in lieu of subsistence, to the extent permitted by law for persons serving intermittently in the Government service (5 U.S.C. 5701-5707).

(d) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(1) authority granted by law to a department, agency, or the head thereof; or

(2) functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(e) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

173 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:13:35pm

re: #172 Gus 802

OUTRAGEOUS!!!

174 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:13:54pm

re: #172 Gus 802

What significance do the procedural details have? No one has alleged that the panel make laws or is permanent.

175 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:14:10pm

re: #172 Gus 802

Yeah, it's just an advisory committee and nothing to get exited about one way or the other.

176 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:19:21pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's just an advisory committee and nothing to get exited about one way or the other.

What did you think it was? You were commenting without being aware of its function apparently.

177 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:21:34pm

re: #174 Bagua

What significance do the procedural details have? No one has alleged that the panel make laws or is permanent.

No but you initially linked to a New York Daily News article titled: Obama's bogus blue-ribbon oil spill panel has no expertise - and is poised to do his bidding. Regardless, I think many are predicting an outcome from this commission before they even finalized a report. Not only that but it's predicting an outcome or response from the president based on a non-existent report.

178 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:24:29pm

poor BO...he seems to erode confidence rather than create any

179 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:25:01pm

re: #176 Bagua

That's what I thought it was. It's not a seekrit conspiracy to shut down oil drilling. They are going to make some recommendations.

180 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:25:07pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's just an advisory committee and nothing to get exited about one way or the other.

Yes. One can look at the 911 Commission Report. A great deal of the recommendations were not followed and in fact verbally rejected in public. Yeah, I know bringing up 911 might cause some outrage since we're not supposed to talk or build anything near "ground zero" for the next 5000 years.

181 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:25:36pm

re: #178 albusteve

poor BO...he seems to erode confidence rather than create any

Lol, like any politician has ever inspired confidence???
Besides, confidence is nothing more than a feel good measure.
It's meaningless before the facts.

182 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:26:33pm

re: #178 albusteve

poor BO...he seems to erode confidence rather than create any

Indeed, that $20 billion fund he got from BP shows how weak he is and how he won't hold the company to account no how.

183 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:27:01pm

re: #181 Varek Raith

Lol, like any politician has ever inspired confidence???
Besides, confidence is nothing more than a feel good measure.
It's meaningless before the facts.

ya think?...ya think confisence has nothing to do with out stalled economy?...if so you are naive

184 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:27:35pm

re: #182 allegro

Indeed, that $20 billion fund he got from BP shows how weak he is and how he won't hold the company to account no how.

he had to extort that money

185 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:27:42pm

re: #181 Varek Raith

Lol, like any politician has ever inspired confidence???
Besides, confidence is nothing more than a feel good measure.
It's meaningless before the facts.

Yeah, a veritable first. President Obama, the first politician not to elicit confidence in a measurable segment of our population. Before that, previous presidents were as pure as the driven snow (for some, literally). Of course then we get the "we're not talking about previous presidents!" clause.

186 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:27:55pm

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

Extort? LOL

187 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:28:24pm

Joe Barton's in de house!

/

188 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:28:27pm

re: #183 albusteve

ya think?...ya think confisence has nothing to do with out stalled economy?...if so you are naive

Oh, I know it does in a lot a people's minds. It's just meaningless. Being confident doesn't matter, logically.

189 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:28:33pm

re: #185 Gus 802

Yeah, a veritable first. President Obama, the first politician not to elicit confidence in a measurable segment of our population. Before that, previous presidents were as pure as the driven snow (for some, literally). Of course then we get the "we're not talking about previous presidents!" clause.

nobody said he was the first....you are starting to make stuff up

190 RayGunIsDead  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:28:54pm

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

Poor, poor BP.

191 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:29:11pm

re: #188 Varek Raith

Oh, I know it does in a lot a people's minds. It's just meaningless. Being confident doesn't matter, logically.

that's what I thought you'd say

192 allegro  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:29:22pm

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

//It's the Chicago way, yanno.///

193 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:29:27pm

re: #189 albusteve

nobody said he was the first...you are starting to make stuff up

Yep...

"We're not talking about previous presidents!"

194 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:29:57pm

re: #191 albusteve

that's what I thought you'd say

:)
What do you expect?
It's just how I think, rightly or wrongly.

195 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:30:53pm

re: #190 RayGunIsDead

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

Poor, poor BP.

5 point something billion per year for the next 3 1/2 years. I'm willing to bet that they'll figure out a way to make it a "write off."

196 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:31:30pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Yep...

"We're not talking about previous presidents!"

that is correct...good for you, keep your eye on the ball

197 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:32:39pm

re: #182 allegro

Indeed, that $20 billion fund he got from BP shows how weak he is and how he won't hold the company to account no how.

Thankfully the Republicans had the courage to apologize to BP for getting our filthy environment all over their oil.

198 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:33:57pm

re: #197 Killgore Trout

Thankfully the Republicans had the courage to apologize to BP for getting our filthy environment all over their oil.

Biology!? Biology!? We don't need no stinkin' biology!

//

199 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:34:05pm

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

That's the money making quote for the Dems. They could not be more thrilled about the Republican reaction to the spill.

200 albusteve  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:34:23pm

re: #194 Varek Raith

:)
What do you expect?
It's just how I think, rightly or wrongly.

right, confidence in the POTUS, his admin, congressional legislation has no effect on lending, investing, buying, expanding.....sure

201 Gus  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:34:29pm

Oceanography: Teach the controversy.

/

202 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:37:07pm

re: #200 albusteve

right, confidence in the POTUS, his admin, congressional legislation has no effect on lending, investing, buying, expanding...sure

Heh.
In some cases, it matters.
In others, it doesn't.

203 palomino  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:43:02pm

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

Wrong, that's a dittohead talking point made by people who can't give the President credit for anything, no matter how popular it is. (You think most Americans are opposed to the idea of a fund to pay for the damage? Not by a long shot.)

Suddenly folks who normally think Obama is too weak are now complaining that his treatment of a foreign company is too muscular. Absurd.

204 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:45:50pm

BBL. Gonna get some coffee.
I'm rambling incoherently.

205 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:52:48pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

That's what I thought it was. It's not a seekrit conspiracy to shut down oil drilling. They are going to make some recommendations.

No not secret at all, Obama has already shut down the oil drilling in question, this is obviously a rubber stamp for that. If they had any intention of studying how deepwater drilling can be done safely, they would have included some experts on, gasp, drilling.

206 RayGunIsDead  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:54:57pm

re: #195 Gus 802

5 point something billion per year for the next 3 1/2 years. I'm willing to bet that they'll figure out a way to make it a "write off."

Exactly.

CEO may have to take a slight pay cut though as his pay is probably tied to profits.

Poor poor CEOs

207 Bagua  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 2:56:17pm

re: #177 Gus 802

No but you initially linked to a New York Daily News article titled: Obama's bogus blue-ribbon oil spill panel has no expertise - and is poised to do his bidding. Regardless, I think many are predicting an outcome from this commission before they even finalized a report. Not only that but it's predicting an outcome or response from the president based on a non-existent report.

That is my take on it, it is a rubber stamp. Obviously we need to wait for the result to confirm my prediction, but we need not suspend disbelief every time the issue is something done by Obama.

208 sagehen  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 3:07:34pm

re: #184 albusteve

he had to extort that money

oh, please. If you knew the first thing about civil litigation, you'd know BP got a very very good deal, they're delighted to have an escrow account and a competent, well-respected arbitrator doing the claims, not having to go through lawsuits. The asbestos manufacturers are green with envy, wishing they'd had such a sweet set-up.

(also a big win for the taxpayers, since our publicly-funded courtrooms and judges and bailiffs and stenographers and county clerks won't be having to spend tens of thousands of hours of their time on this mess).

209 Four More Tears  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 4:08:47pm

re: #208 sagehen


(also a big win for the taxpayers, since our publicly-funded courtrooms and judges and bailiffs and stenographers and county clerks won't be having to spend tens of thousands of hours of their time on this mess).

But what about their jobs?

/

210 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 7:49:10pm

re: #207 Bagua

That is my take on it, it is a rubber stamp. Obviously we need to wait for the result to confirm my prediction, but we need not suspend disbelief every time the issue is something done by Obama.

Well, I'm going to wait to see how things proceed. It certainly bears watching, carefully.

But it may not be a rubber stamp - let's see how it plays out.

211 Neo_  Sun, Jun 20, 2010 7:50:56pm

What will they think of next .. lemons .. most likely.


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