NPR’s Terry Gross interviews Jane Mayer, a staff writer at The New Yorker, about her recent article on the far right astroturfing efforts of the billionaire Koch Brothers: The Brothers Koch: Rich, Political And Playing To Win.
1 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:34:25pm |
Good
The more the manipulators using big money and “cutesy sounding” front groups are exposed the further away politicians should shy away from them
Maybe then, people will start believing that their vote counts again and will go back to the pols in reasonable numbers, not the apathetic showings than the recent past
2 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:35:23pm |
I’m going to the party as the Magic Equivalency Fairy.
3 |
bratwurst Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:37:02pm |
re: #1 sattv4u2
Good
The more the manipulators using big money and “cutesy sounding” front groups are exposed the further away politicians should shy away from them
Maybe then, people will start believing that their vote counts again and will go back to the pols in reasonable numbers, not the apathetic showings than the recent past
While I don’t at all disagree with your point in principle, the fact is that the voter turnout in 2008 was the highest in 40 years.
4 |
Vambo Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:37:48pm |
re: #1 sattv4u2
Good
The more the manipulators using big money and “cutesy sounding” front groups are exposed the further away politicians should shy away from them
Maybe then, people will start believing that their vote counts again and will go back to the pols in reasonable numbers, not the apathetic showings than the recent past
Just curious, but are there any instances when a problem is NOT the government’s fault?
5 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:38:21pm |
re: #2 Walter L. Newton
Magic Balance Fairy has a better ring to it, and rolls of the tongue better.
| 6 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:39:34pm |
re: #4 Vambo
Just curious, but are there any instances when a problem is NOT the government’s fault?
Yes
| 8 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:41:35pm |
re: #3 bratwurst
While I don’t at all disagree with your point in principle, the fact is that the voter turnout in 2008 was the highest in 40 years.
[Link: www.infoplease.com…]
Comendable, but as your chart shows, look at the 60’s/ 70’s (60+ % in Presidential years,,, 45+ in off years)
| 9 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:41:58pm |
| 10 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:45:03pm |
re: #5 Obdicut
Magic Balance Fairy has a better ring to it, and rolls of the tongue better.
It really depends on the persons speaking ability. For you to assume that it rolls of the tongue better, is assuming that everyone has the same proper pronunciation, the ability to command the attention of the listener, and the intellectual prowess to use the phrase at the correct moment.
So your point is debatable.
11 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:47:24pm |
re: #2 Walter L. Newton
I’m going to the party as the Magic Equivalency Fairy.
Is there anywhere you won’t leave a stinking pile of false equivalency bullshit?
| 12 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:47:53pm |
re: #11 darthstar
Is there anywhere you won’t leave a stinking pile of false equivalency bullshit?
Yes… where won’t you be standing?
| 13 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:49:28pm |
re: #12 Walter L. Newton
Yes… where won’t you be standing?
I would have thought you shot your load this morning with your Pelosi, Matthews, etc. quotes (many of which actually didn’t support your argument, anyway).
| 15 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:50:08pm |
re: #10 Walter L. Newton
Since you’re one of the main worshipers of the Magical Equivalence/Balance Fairy, I’ll leave it up to you what to call him.
| 16 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:50:10pm |
re: #13 darthstar
I would have thought you shot your load this morning with your Pelosi, Matthews, etc. quotes (many of which actually didn’t support your argument, anyway).
You didn’t answer my question… cupcakes.
17 |
Jeff In Ohio Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:50:42pm |
18 |
Interesting Times Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:52:01pm |
re: #5 Obdicut
Magic Balance Fairy has a better ring to it, and rolls of the tongue better.
I keep wanted to say “False Equivalence Fairy” - letter-wise, so nice and symmetric, unlike what it actually represents ;)
| 19 |
Interesting Times Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:52:46pm |
re: #18 publicityStunted
PIMF - wanted “wanting”
| 21 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:54:01pm |
re: #13 darthstar
I would have thought you shot your load this morning with your Pelosi, Matthews, etc. quotes (many of which actually didn’t support your argument, anyway).
Skinnerian
22 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:55:18pm |
re: #17 Jeff In Ohio
(Ever watched ‘em make corn flakes?
First, you take a broom……).
J/K
| 23 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:55:45pm |
HOLD THE WEDDIN
Who is the arbiter of what is and what isn’t “FALSE” about the equivalency?
| 24 |
Jeff In Ohio Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:56:28pm |
re: #22 tradewind
(Ever watched ‘em make corn flakes?
First, you take a broom…).
J/K
Crispy till you add milk. Then they get soggy and fall apart.
| 25 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:57:11pm |
re: #21 Walter L. Newton
Skinnerian
I’ll have to have a talk with Obdicut for his adding that word to your vocabulary.
26 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:57:33pm |
Oh. I thought it was John Mayer.
| 27 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:58:15pm |
re: #25 darthstar
I’ll have to have a talk with Obdicut for his adding that word to your vocabulary.
Heh. It’s better then him saying “Pavlovian”. Even if nothing he’s calling “Skinnerian” actually is Skinnerian, he’s at least remotely in the right area.
| 28 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:58:57pm |
re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh. I thought it was John Mayer.
I thought they were talking about the Boston College Basketball coach
29 |
sagehen Sun, Aug 29, 2010 12:59:12pm |
re: #4 Vambo
Just curious, but are there any instances when a problem is NOT the government’s fault?
Lots.
And many of the problems that aren’t the government’s fault, it’s still the government’s responsibility to deal with it.
| 31 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:00:25pm |
| 32 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:00:37pm |
re: #27 Obdicut
Heh. It’s better then him saying “Pavlovian”. Even if nothing he’s calling “Skinnerian” actually is Skinnerian, he’s at least remotely in the right area.
Just don’t teach him the meaning of gadfly.
| 33 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:00:53pm |
re: #29 sagehen
Not nearly as many as they’d like you to believe.
| 34 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:02:10pm |
re: #33 tradewind
Not nearly as many as they’d like you to believe.
Until you find yourself in need of help personally…then everything is different.
35 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:02:11pm |
Just ordered this for my grandson’s birthday.
36 |
simoom Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:02:48pm |
For anyone who hasn’t listened and feels a Soros-elephant-in-the-room (:P) is being ignored, while the primary focus of the interview is the Koch brothers, Mayer does spend a little bit of it contrasting their and George Soros’ political activities, press access and general transparency.
| 37 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:03:39pm |
re: #34 darthstar
And that’s when thinking outside the box is helpful.
| 39 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:08:20pm |
re: #37 tradewind
And that’s when thinking outside the box is helpful.
I would have thought getting your ducks in a row would prevent you from having to leverage a fresh pair of eyes (to help think outside the box)…otherwise, you may find you have a long row to hoe, and all the tea in China isn’t going to get all your eggs back into one basket.
| 40 |
elizajane Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:08:29pm |
re: #36 simoom
For anyone who hasn’t listened and feels a Soros-elephant-in-the-room (:P) is being ignored, while the primary focus of the interview is the Koch brothers, Mayer does spend a little bit of it contrasting their and George Soros’ political activities, press access and general transparency.
As did Frank Rich in his NYT column this morning on the Koch brothers.
41 |
Varek Raith Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:08:54pm |
re: #39 darthstar
I would have thought getting your ducks in a row would prevent you from having to leverage a fresh pair of eyes (to help think outside the box)…otherwise, you may find you have a long row to hoe, and all the tea in China isn’t going to get all your eggs back into one basket.
Holy cliched sentence, Batman!
/
| 42 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:11:22pm |
re: #41 Varek Raith
Holy cliched sentence, Batman!
/
It’s a different kettle of fish when the devil is in the details.
| 43 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:11:51pm |
re: #39 darthstar
Did you have to do a quick Bartlett’s search for that word salad, or did it just come to you in a rush…../
44 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:12:19pm |
the company behind brands including Brawny paper towels
Maybe there’s some cross-marketing going on with all those pols in flannel shirts.
45 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:12:27pm |
In bad economic times Jews have almost always been fair game for whichever groups happen to require some handy scapegoats.
| 46 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:12:46pm |
re: #43 tradewind
Did you have to do a quick Bartlett’s search for that word salad, or did it just come to you in a rush…/
All in a day’s work.
| 47 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:13:15pm |
re: #39 darthstar
I would have thought getting your ducks in a row would prevent you from having to leverage a fresh pair of eyes (to help think outside the box)…otherwise, you may find you have a long row to hoe, and all the tea in China isn’t going to get all your eggs back into one basket.
Might as well kick the can down the road, or under the bus.
| 48 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:13:27pm |
re: #39 darthstar
I would have thought getting your ducks in a row would prevent you from having to leverage a fresh pair of eyes (to help think outside the box)…otherwise, you may find you have a long row to hoe, and all the tea in China isn’t going to get all your eggs back into one basket.
darthstar
Stringing cliches’ together since Dec 2009!
| 49 |
tradewind Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:13:27pm |
re: #39 darthstar
It was all that Skinner / Pavlov talk. Boxes just rang a bell.
| 50 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:13:46pm |
re: #45 Spare O’Lake
In bad economic times Jews have almost always been fair game for whichever groups happen to require some handy scapegoats.
Is that your best defense of the Koch brothers?
| 52 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:14:52pm |
re: #50 darthstar
Is that your best defense of the Koch brothers?
I don’t think it can be. I don’t think the Koch brothers are Jewish.
| 53 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:15:19pm |
re: #48 sattv4u2
darthstar
Stringing cliches’ together since Dec 2009!
Hey, I’m just going with the flow here. I don’t mean to be a pain in the neck.
54 |
elbruce Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:15:38pm |
re: #1 sattv4u2
The more the manipulators using big money and “cutesy sounding” front groups are exposed the further away politicians should shy away from them
That doesn’t seem to be happening at all. Scott Brown won his seat with lots of tea party support even though it was widely known that he accepted huge amount of cash from Wall Street investment firms. You might think that the tea party folks might be turned off by the fact that his pockets were stuffed with bailout cash, but it didn’t seem to have any effect.
| 55 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:16:26pm |
re: #53 darthstar
Hey, I’m just going with the flow here. I don’t mean to be a pain in the neck.
You should play them one at a time
Give 110 percent
No “I” in team
We took what the defense was giving us
| 56 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:16:51pm |
re: #52 Obdicut
I don’t think it can be. I don’t think the Koch brothers are Jewish.
Then I don’t know exactly what Sparrow’s meaning was, or was it just a general observation?
| 57 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:16:58pm |
re: #53 darthstar
Well that paragraph is a helluva start.
It could be made into a monster if we all pull together as a team.
58 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:17:25pm |
re: #55 sattv4u2
You should play them one at a time
Give 110 percent
No “I” in team
We took what the defense was giving us
At least he took one for the team.
| 59 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:17:27pm |
re: #55 sattv4u2
You should play them one at a time
Give 110 percent
No “I” in team
We took what the defense was giving us
I’ll leave you to paddle your own canoe.
| 60 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:17:56pm |
re: #57 jaunte
Well that paragraph is a helluva start.
It could be made into a monster if we all pull together as a team.
You can take that to the bank.
| 61 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:18:03pm |
re: #54 elbruce
That doesn’t seem to be happening at all. Scott Brown won his seat with lots of tea party support even though it was widely known that he accepted huge amount of cash from Wall Street investment firms. You might think that the tea party folks might be turned off by the fact that his pockets were stuffed with bailout cash, but it didn’t seem to have any effect.
Hence my The more the manipulators using big money and “cutesy sounding” front groups are exposed part
((and I don;t think most people consider Wall Street a “”cutesy sounding” front group”, but ymmv!
| 62 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:18:13pm |
Huh… the article was right. I never heard of the Koch brothers before.
| 63 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:19:43pm |
re: #62 brookly red
Huh… the article was right. I never heard of the Koch brothers before.
And they’d prefer it stay that way.
| 64 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:21:50pm |
re: #35 Alouette
Just ordered this for my grandson’s birthday.
An indoor flying helicopter? Good Lord, what do you have against the grandkid’s parents?
[Mental image of dishes, vases, pictures, etc., shattering as they hit the floor]
Give the kid something really useful and anti-parents next time, like a set of drums.
| 65 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:23:13pm |
re: #64 ClaudeMonet
An indoor flying helicopter? Good Lord, what do you have against the grandkid’s parents?
[Mental image of dishes, vases, pictures, etc., shattering as they hit the floor]
Give the kid something really useful and anti-parents next time, like a set of drums.
The boy next door got a drum. I asked him if he ever looked inside it. Problem solved.:)
| 66 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:24:03pm |
re: #57 jaunte
Well that paragraph is a helluva start.
It could be made into a monster if we all pull together as a team.
Upding for the Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here reference. Me loves that album.
| 67 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:24:33pm |
re: #64 ClaudeMonet
An indoor flying helicopter? Good Lord, what do you have against the grandkid’s parents?
[Mental image of dishes, vases, pictures, etc., shattering as they hit the floor]
Give the kid something really useful and anti-parents next time, like a set of drums.
well on the other had it could be useful to learn how to operate a drone… I think there will be a huge demand for drone operators in the near future.
| 68 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:24:54pm |
re: #64 ClaudeMonet
An indoor flying helicopter? Good Lord, what do you have against the grandkid’s parents?
[Mental image of dishes, vases, pictures, etc., shattering as they hit the floor]
Give the kid something really useful and anti-parents next time, like a set of drums.
Zedushka bought a remote-control helicopter last year, and decided to keep it for HIMSELF! Then, we brought it with us to Israel for our grandkids in Safed. My son-in-law kept it for himself.
I kind of expect that my son want to play with this helicopter my himself while he “teaches” my grandson how to use it.
| 69 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:25:13pm |
re: #67 brookly red
well on the other had it could be useful to learn how to operate a drone… I think there will be a huge demand for drone operators in the near future.
I’m guessing once a camera is installed on the helicopter, that the bathroom will become a no-fly zone.
70 |
researchok Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:25:20pm |
re: #35 Alouette
Just ordered this for my grandson’s birthday.
My birthday is coming up. Might I impose on you to get me one of these?
| 72 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:26:13pm |
re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar
The boy next door got a drum. I asked him if he ever looked inside it. Problem solved.:)
Pure genius!
| 73 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:26:18pm |
re: #70 researchok
My birthday is coming up. Might I impose on you to get me one of these?
I like the new Saab 9.5…wouldn’t mind having one myself.
| 74 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:26:27pm |
re: #66 ClaudeMonet
Upding for the Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here reference. Me loves that album.
I requested that Wish You Were Here be played at my best friends funeral. That song kinda makes me sad now, unfortunately. So shine on you crazy diamond.:)
| 75 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:26:37pm |
re: #66 ClaudeMonet
Watching the Beckpalooza yesterday I kept thinking that Pink Floyd’s “Money” should have been the soundtrack.
| 76 |
brookly red Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:27:49pm |
re: #69 darthstar
I’m guessing once a camera is installed on the helicopter, that the bathroom will become a no-fly zone.
I am just thinking back to my childhood… the kid across the street had a plastic U2 (not the band) glider that did have a small b&w camera in it.
| 77 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:28:24pm |
78 |
KingKenrod Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:28:53pm |
re: #54 elbruce
That doesn’t seem to be happening at all. Scott Brown won his seat with lots of tea party support even though it was widely known that he accepted huge amount of cash from Wall Street investment firms. You might think that the tea party folks might be turned off by the fact that his pockets were stuffed with bailout cash, but it didn’t seem to have any effect.
Brown’s poll numbers and fundraising jumped when he announced his opposition to health care reform. He took the correct position on the tea party holy war issue, and nothing else mattered.
| 79 |
Jeff In Ohio Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:29:06pm |
Listen to this while making JIO’s World Famous Spaghetti and Turkey Meatballs over Rice Pasta and it reminded me of these guys:
I especially like the part where their old man made his first million of Stalin. That’ll show those commie motherfuckers!
| 80 |
kirkspencer Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:30:40pm |
FWIW, according to the Forbes list of billionaires, both brothers independently have a greater fortune than Soros. Not a LOT bigger — $17.5B (each) vs $14B — but bigger nonetheless.
| 81 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:31:20pm |
re: #75 jaunte
Watching the Beckpalooza yesterday I kept thinking that Pink Floyd’s “Money” should have been the soundtrack.
I think Us and Them and Brain Damage would be appropriate.
| 82 |
simoom Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:31:59pm |
Kind of silly, but maybe worth a chuckle — Sarah Palin directs her Twitter followers to rock musician @Beck (instead of @GlennBeck):
Silly media reports“maybe thousands”@Beck’s “irrelevant” event;insinuating MSM sheeple mustn’t believe their own eyes&ears re: event’s truthabout 4 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
Retweeted by 100+ peopleSarahPalinUSA
| 83 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:32:19pm |
Kitteh plays wif RC helicopter
| 84 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:34:34pm |
re: #83 Alouette
Kitteh plays wif RC helicopter
[Video]
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Hit of acid. Laser pointer. Kitteh. Night of entertainment.
| 85 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:34:43pm |
re: #61 sattv4u2
Hence my The more the manipulators using big money and “cutesy sounding” front groups are exposed part
((and I don;t think most people consider Wall Street a “”cutesy sounding” front group”, but ymmv!
For stealth anti-Semites, “Wall Street” is code for “the rich Jews”.
86 |
HappyWarrior Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:35:28pm |
re: #82 simoom
Kind of silly, but maybe worth a chuckle — Sarah Palin directs her Twitter followers to rock musician @Beck (instead of @GlennBeck):
[Link: twitter.com…]
I love how she whines about the media. Sarah you are THE media now. I wonder what Beck thought of all the tweets directed at him. Don’t know if he’s political but I doubt he’s on the Glenn-Sarah side of the aisle.
| 87 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:35:31pm |
re: #83 Alouette
Kitteh plays wif RC helicopter
[Video]
Wait until the helicopter unleashes its miniature Hellfire missiles. :)
| 88 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:36:19pm |
re: #39 darthstar
I would have thought getting your ducks in a row would prevent you from having to leverage a fresh pair of eyes (to help think outside the box)…otherwise, you may find you have a long row to hoe, and all the tea in China isn’t going to get all your eggs back into one basket.
89 |
allegro Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:38:09pm |
re: #80 kirkspencer
Not a LOT bigger — $17.5B (each) vs $14B — but bigger nonetheless.
Wow. In whose world is $3.5 BILLION not a LOT? Holy moly.
| 90 |
kirkspencer Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:39:16pm |
re: #89 allegro
In a world where it’s only 25% of the lesser amount.
| 91 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:40:27pm |
re: #87 ClaudeMonet
Wait until the helicopter unleashes its miniature Hellfire missiles. :)
This heli is going to my Canadian grandson and not the Russian kid, who would insist that it must have working missiles.
| 92 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:43:09pm |
re: #90 kirkspencer
In a world where it’s only 25% of the lesser amount.
Nobody told me there was going to be math!
| 93 |
kirkspencer Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:44:42pm |
re: #92 sattv4u2
Nobody told me there was going to be math!
Hey, I’m a liberal, I do math. Live with it.
| 94 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:45:10pm |
Which is more “ironic”: a bigoted Jew, a bigoted Christian or a bigoted Muslim?
| 95 |
darthstar Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:54:24pm |
re: #94 Spare O’Lake
Which is more “ironic”: a bigoted Jew, a bigoted Christian or a bigoted Muslim?
You.
| 96 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 1:56:54pm |
re: #94 Spare O’Lake
Which is more “ironic”: a bigoted Jew, a bigoted Christian or a bigoted Muslim?
Yes.
| 98 |
ClaudeMonet Sun, Aug 29, 2010 2:01:52pm |
re: #97 tradewind
Did you mean more iconic?/
LOL. If that’s what darth meant, then I vote for Christian based on personal experience.
99 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Aug 29, 2010 2:06:55pm |
re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Hit of acid. Laser pointer. Kitteh. Night of entertainment.
Yes - yes, a thousand times yes.
| 100 |
pch Sun, Aug 29, 2010 2:59:47pm |
So they’re not teabaggers after all - they’re Koch suckers.
| 101 |
Vambo Sun, Aug 29, 2010 3:13:51pm |
re: #29 sagehen
Lots.
And many of the problems that aren’t the government’s fault, it’s still the government’s responsibility to deal with it.
That’s not very libertarian… relying on the government to solve our problems ‘n shit? Don’t know about you, but personally, I can be the best and most efficient problem-solver when someone is drowning me in a bathtub.
| 102 |
elbruce Sun, Aug 29, 2010 3:20:24pm |
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