Grayson Pulls a Breitbart

Politics • Views: 3,950

In his latest campaign ad, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) pulled a Breitbart — he edited video of his opponent Daniel Webster to make him appear to be saying something other than what he really said. factcheck.org has the details: Rep. Grayson Lowers the Bar.

In a new ad, Grayson accuses his Republican opponent Daniel Webster of being a religious fanatic and dubs him “Taliban Dan.” But to make his case, Grayson manipulates a video clip to make it appear Webster was commanding wives to submit to their husbands, quoting a passage in the Bible. Four times, the ad shows Webster saying wives should submit to their husbands. In fact, Webster was cautioning husbands to avoid taking that passage as their own. The unedited quote is: “Don’t pick the ones [Bible verses] that say, ‘She should submit to me.’”

The full context of Webster’s statement is interesting, though:

Webster: So, write a journal. Second, find a verse. I have a verse for my wife, I have verses for my wife. Don’t pick the ones that say, ‘She should submit to me.’ That’s in the Bible, but pick the ones that you’re supposed to do. So instead, ‘love your wife, even as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it’ as opposed to ‘wives submit to your own husbands.’ She can pray that, if she wants to, but don’t you pray it.

It’s true that Grayson went way over the line and turned this into something it wasn’t; he may have lost himself the election with this stunt.

However … what Daniel Webster’s actually saying is that if women choose to make themselves subservient because the Bible tells them to, that’s just fine with him. He’s not saying that nobody should use those verses, he’s just saying men shouldn’t do it. I guess he thinks it’s rude or something.

It’s kind of a soft patriarchalism. He may not want to force women to become chattel, but he doesn’t have to; they’re supposed to choose it themselves.

Jump to bottom

137 comments
1 mr.fusion  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:52:22pm

What about the first quote from Webster that says “Wives submit yourselves to your own husband.”? I haven’t watched the full unedited version yet…..was that quote also taken out of context as badly as “submit to me”?

2 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:53:37pm

He tries to act like one, but he’s no Weiner.

3 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:54:25pm

Sooner or later, someone has got to realize its not as easy to get away with this kind of bullshit as it used to be.

4 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:54:39pm

re: #1 mr.fusion

What about the first quote from Webster that says “Wives submit yourselves to your own husband.”? I haven’t watched the full unedited version yet…was that quote also taken out of context as badly as “submit to me”?

It seems pretty damn clear to me that he’s saying husbands, or men in general, should not choose that quote.

Grayson is an ass. Weiner does everything good Grayson does without being a jerk.

There is no excuse for deceptive editing like this. Not “they do it too”. Not “It’s all politics”. Shit like this treats voters with contempt.

5 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:56:30pm

Here’s the full quote:

Webster: So, write a journal. Second, find a verse. I have a verse for my wife, I have verses for my wife. Don’t pick the ones that say, ‘She should submit to me.’ That’s in the Bible, but pick the ones that you’re supposed to do. So instead, ‘love your wife, even as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it’ as opposed to ‘wives submit to your own husbands.’ She can pray that, if she wants to, but don’t you pray it.

It’s true that Grayson turned the statement into something it wasn’t. However … what Webster actually is saying is that if women choose to make themselves subservient because the Bible tells them to, that’s just fine with him. He’s not saying that nobody should use those verses, he’s just saying men shouldn’t do it. I guess he thinks it’s rude or something.

It’s kind of a soft patriarchalism. He’s not into forcing any women to become chattel, but gee, it sure would be great if they chose it themselves, wouldn’t it?

6 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:56:57pm

re: #1 mr.fusion

Yes. He said not to use that phrase. He was trying to tell the men they should chose a verse that tells them what to do, not someone else.
I question some of Webster’s stances. Can’t agree on no abortion for rape or incest. But I don’t like tricks.

7 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:57:11pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sooner or later, someone has got to realize its not as easy to get away with this kind of bullshit as it used to be.

If consequences were attached, it would be “sooner”. Breitbart’s still working.

8 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:59:08pm

After the vile hit job pulled on Georgia Democratic Senator Max Cleland A decorated and horribly injured Vietnam veteran)back in 2002 where the Republican Saxby Chambliss compared him to Saddam Hussein, I have been wondering when the Dems would catch on that the people reward this kind of thing. The left leaning websites have been cheering nonstop to see a Dem beginning to fight fire with fire.

It isn’t like Grayson’s opponent hasn’t been obliging with some of his wacky bullshit and poor voting record, but “Taliban Dan” is a bit over the top.

9 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:59:24pm

re: #5 Charles

That makes Grayson’s distortion even stupider. If he could have attacked him on the real, actual quote— why distort it? Why be an ass?

10 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:59:38pm

Grayson still kicks ass…we need more people like him in the House who are willing to call things what they are.

11 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 1:59:47pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sooner or later, someone has got to realize its not as easy to get away with this kind of bullshit as it used to be.

Wrong. It is easier, since the MSM no longer functions as a fact checking gate keeper.

12 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:00:03pm

re: #9 Obdicut

That makes Grayson’s distortion even stupider. If he could have attacked him on the real, actual quote— why distort it? Why be an ass?

Because he is stupid and an asshole?

13 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:00:35pm

Well, we can stop protecting marriage from gays now. It is dying anyway. Well, not quite. But it appears to be on the decline once again.

14 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:01:11pm

re: #5 Charles

Here’s the full quote:

It’s true that Grayson turned the statement into something it wasn’t. However … what Webster actually is saying is that if women choose to make themselves subservient because the Bible tells them to, that’s just fine with him. He’s not saying that nobody should use those verses, he’s just saying men shouldn’t do it. I guess he thinks it’s rude or something.

It’s kind of a soft patriarchalism. He’s not into forcing any women to become chattel, but gee, it sure would be great if they chose it themselves, wouldn’t it?

The real focus of the ad is on Websters postion on women’s issues…which is not real good.

15 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:01:17pm

I’m not so sure. Watching the video there seems to be some nuance. He does acknowledge a wife’s submission to her husband is required by the bible but he’s telling husbands to not demand their wives pray for it unless the wife volunteers.

16 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:01:45pm

re: #10 darthstar
We need more liars?

17 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:01pm

re: #5 Charles

Here’s the full quote:

It’s true that Grayson turned the statement into something it wasn’t. However … what Webster actually is saying is that if women choose to make themselves subservient because the Bible tells them to, that’s just fine with him. He’s not saying that nobody should use those verses, he’s just saying men shouldn’t do it. I guess he thinks it’s rude or something.

It’s kind of a soft patriarchalism. He’s not into forcing any women to become chattel, but gee, it sure would be great if they chose it themselves, wouldn’t it?

Ah, ok. I get it now.

18 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:03pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

I’m not so sure. Watching the video there seems to be some nuance. He does acknowledge a wife’s submission to her husband is required by the bible but he’s telling husbands to not demand their wives pray for it unless the wife volunteers.

That’s a comfort.

////////////

19 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:26pm

re: #14 celticdragon

The real focus of the ad is on Websters postion on women’s issues…which is not real good.

Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.

20 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:30pm

re: #16 Escaped Hillbilly

We need more liars?

But lying to Hitler is wrong.

21 mr.fusion  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:38pm

re: #6 Escaped Hillbilly

Yes. He said not to use that phrase. He was trying to tell the men they should chose a verse that tells them what to do, not someone else.
I question some of Webster’s stances. Can’t agree on no abortion for rape or incest. But I don’t like tricks.

I’m with you on that…..don’t get me wrong, the Dems need a little Rove to ‘em….but this is kind of beyond the pale. I mean….it’s not like Grayson really needed to stoop to this level to make his point. This is from politifact:

Grayson spokesman Sam Drzymala said the audio and video of Webster come from a speech he made for the Institute in Basic Life Principles, which Drzymala described as a “right-wing cult.”

The Institute in Basic Life Principles describes itself as a Christian teaching organization that provides training and instruction on how to find success by following God’s principles found in Scripture. Some of its specific teachings are controversial. Among them, the Institute teaches that a mother violates Scripture when she works outside the home, that married couples are to abstain from sex 40 days after the birth of a son, 80 days after the birth of a daughter and the evening prior to worship, and that people should avoid rock and even contemporary Christian music because it can be addictive.

Emphasis added

22 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:02:59pm

re: #5 Charles

Here’s the full quote:

It’s true that Grayson turned the statement into something it wasn’t. However … what Webster actually is saying is that if women choose to make themselves subservient because the Bible tells them to, that’s just fine with him. He’s not saying that nobody should use those verses, he’s just saying men shouldn’t do it. I guess he thinks it’s rude or something.

It’s kind of a soft patriarchalism. He’s not into forcing any women to become chattel, but gee, it sure would be great if they chose it themselves, wouldn’t it?

Sir I do very much respect & appreciate the fact that you have pointed out a D. There are too many that would like to pretend that this is strictly an R situation.

23 palomino  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:04:20pm

Grayson is way over the top here (calling his opponent “Taliban Dan”) and probably deserves to lose this race.

But why is the Republican candidate telling people how they should pray?

24 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:05:39pm

re: #19 darthstar

Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.


I don’t think he is saying that a woman should not leave home without her husband, that she is property, that a man can divorce a woman but she can’t divorce him, that if a woman doesn’t submit you should beat her, that if a woman is not humble enough, speaks out in public, talks to a man not in her family, has a job, or shows any part of her body she should be killed…
I am a strong feminist and Webster’s religious bull makes my skin crawl. But he IS NOT THE TALIBAN. When you throw terms like that around, you cheapen the real pain and misery the women of that region suffer daily.

25 darthstar  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:05:57pm

re: #23 palomino

Grayson is way over the top here (calling his opponent “Taliban Dan”) and probably deserves to lose this race.

But why is the Republican candidate telling people how they should pray?

Because that’s how Republicans prey

26 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:06:07pm

re: #21 mr.fusion

I’m with you on that…don’t get me wrong, the Dems need a little Rove to ‘em…but this is kind of beyond the pale. I mean…it’s not like Grayson really needed to stoop to this level to make his point. This is from politifact:

Grayson spokesman Sam Drzymala said the audio and video of Webster come from a speech he made for the Institute in Basic Life Principles, which Drzymala described as a “right-wing cult.”

The Institute in Basic Life Principles describes itself as a Christian teaching organization that provides training and instruction on how to find success by following God’s principles found in Scripture. Some of its specific teachings are controversial. Among them, the Institute teaches that a mother violates Scripture when she works outside the home, that married couples are to abstain from sex 40 days after the birth of a son, 80 days after the birth of a daughter and the evening prior to worship, and that people should avoid rock and even contemporary Christian music because it can be addictive.

Emphasis added

Having a daughter makes you dirty, I guess.

Wow.

Better watch out for that Christian music, also…

Somebody tell these people that it is no longer 1978, and Satanic Rock seminars at your local church are no longer the big community event for the week.

27 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:06:48pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But lying to Hitler is wrong.


Now you think I support that nitwit? Grow up. Lying to the American public rather than address the issues is stupid and insulting. Lying to Hitler to save someone’s life is a necessity.

28 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:07:32pm

re: #23 palomino

Grayson is way over the top here (calling his opponent “Taliban Dan”) and probably deserves to lose this race.

But why is the Republican candidate telling people how they should pray?

Grayson took the appropriate lessons from the other side.

It’s our fault that they are taught in the first place. We elect the people who employed, Rove, Atwater and the like.

29 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:07:42pm

re: #19 darthstar

Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.

Which Christian scriptures goes on to detail various corporal punishments if a Christian Taliban’s wife refuses to submit to her husband? Can you give me list?

30 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:09:08pm

re: #21 mr.fusion

The Institute in Basic Life Principles describes itself as a Christian teaching organization that provides training and instruction on how to find success by following God’s principles found in Scripture. Some of its specific teachings are controversial. Among them, the Institute teaches that a mother violates Scripture when she works outside the home, that married couples are to abstain from sex 40 days after the birth of a son, 80 days after the birth of a daughter and the evening prior to worship, and that people should avoid rock and even contemporary Christian music because it can be addictive.

and you must spin around cloclwise three times,while juggling four oranges to ward off the evil eye…oh brother.

31 simoom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:09:27pm

re: #4 Obdicut

It seems pretty damn clear to me that he’s saying husbands, or men in general, should not choose that quote.

What I took from his speech was that he was telling the men in the audience not to pray their wives’ submission — to instead focus on praying that they meet their own Biblically mandated responsibilities — and leave it to their wives to pray those verses. He’s not disputing their inerrancy or his agreement with them, just that men should first focus on their own biblical mandates:

Webster: Find a verse. I have a verse for my wife; I have verses for my wife. Don’t pick the ones that say, um, she should submit to me. That’s in the Bible, but pick the ones that you’re supposed to do. So instead, love your wife, even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it, as opposed to wives submit yourself to your own husband. She can pray that if she wants to, but don’t you pray it.

Same with your children. Pick out the ones that have your responsibility listed in to it. Yes, children are told to obey their parents, but more importantly as fathers we’re told not to provoke them to wrath.

Beyond that clip, I do find it an execrable ad though. Here’s what I posted in last night’s open thread on it:

Yup, it’s a revolting ad: from the Arabic-sounding music, to the background of burka clad women, to the final “Taliban Dan Webster” written in a faux-arabic font. While Webster (ignoring the specific video clip used in the ad and whether or not it was edited dishonestly) is at the extreme fringes when it comes to legislating his religious beliefs, this ad is total distraction from getting that point across to the voters. Despite Grayson’s protestations to the contrary, it is clearly trading in the current climate of Islamaphobia — using it as the club with which to whack his opponent.

Besides being unethical, IMO, this is extremely counterproductive as its novelty, from the left, will cause the media to take notice, and it will be used to show a false equivalence between the left and right anytime the Right’s anti-Muslim politics are brought into question.

32 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:10:11pm

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Which Christian scriptures goes on to detail various corporal punishments if a Christian Taliban’s wife refuses to submit to her husband? Can you give me list?

well I think Christian scriptures were written long before the Taliban existed… I could be wrong, but I am not thinking so.

33 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:10:12pm

re: #21 mr.fusion

Yeah, makes my skin crawl. I really love (not) the 40 days for son, 80 days for daughter, prohibition. So the daughter is dirtier? Or maybe she’s bigger so mom needs longer to recuperate? Stupid. He’d be so much better off just revealing the facts.

34 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:10:49pm

He’s not into forcing any women to become chattel, but gee, it sure would be great if they chose it themselves, wouldn’t it

I was just telling my wife that same exact thi ,, ummm,,,errr,, Hi honey ,, didn’t see you standing behind me
Why do you have that cast iron skillet in your hand!?!?!

OUCH!

35 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:11:36pm

re: #31 simoom

Agreed. This is pretty much an incompetent attack ad: presented with a target the size of barn, Grayson shoots his mouth off and hits himself in his enormous douchebag.

36 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:12:16pm

re: #33 Escaped Hillbilly

Yeah, makes my skin crawl. I really love (not) the 40 days for son, 80 days for daughter, prohibition. So the daughter is dirtier? Or maybe she’s bigger so mom needs longer to recuperate? Stupid. He’d be so much better off just revealing the facts.

maybe it is just to give the woman a break? nawww couldn’t be.

37 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:12:54pm

By the way, regardless of what Grayson did here — Daniel Webster really is a religious fanatic.

38 KansasMom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:11pm

re: #21 mr.fusion


The Institute in Basic Life Principles describes itself as a Christian teaching organization that provides training and instruction on how to find success by following God’s principles found in Scripture. Some of its specific teachings are controversial. Among them, the Institute teaches that a mother violates Scripture when she works outside the home, that married couples are to abstain from sex 40 days after the birth of a son, 80 days after the birth of a daughter and the evening prior to worship, and that people should avoid rock and even contemporary Christian music because it can be addictive.

Emphasis added

I’m soooo going to hell.

39 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:24pm

re: #24 Escaped Hillbilly

I don’t think he is saying that a woman should not leave home without her husband, that she is property, that a man can divorce a woman but she can’t divorce him, that if a woman doesn’t submit you should beat her, that if a woman is not humble enough, speaks out in public, talks to a man not in her family, has a job, or shows any part of her body she should be killed…
I am a strong feminist and Webster’s religious bull makes my skin crawl. But he IS NOT THE TALIBAN. When you throw terms like that around, you cheapen the real pain and misery the women of that region suffer daily.

I starting having my doubts when I read statements from Texan Republicans who were rabidly against immunizing their daughters against HPV to prevent cervical cancer.

They thought it encouraged consequence free sex…and if a dirty slut gets cancer than she can be a warning to their chaste and holy daughters. I wish I was making that up.

40 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:28pm

re: #32 brookly red

well I think Christian scriptures were written long before the Taliban existed… I could be wrong, but I am not thinking so.

Well, I first off, it was Darthstar claims “with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.” He made the parallel and equation with the Taliban.

Secondly, I was just curious, since he mentioned that in regards to woman’s issues, Christian theology is “quite parallel” with the Taliban, I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

41 S'latch  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:29pm

Most politicians are scumbags of one variety or another.

42 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:29pm

But just as you guys almost, kinda had me convinced to go ahead and maybe vote Democrat…
Where is mister Whigg party? I need a third party, stat!

43 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:30pm

re: #37 Charles

By the way, regardless of what Grayson did here — Daniel Webster really is a religious fanatic.

So the poor people of that district have a lose/ lose choice ,,

wonderful!

44 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:46pm

re: #25 darthstar

Because that’s how Republicans prey

uhhh perhaps you missed the fact that Grayson is a D….

oh never mind.

45 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:14:56pm

re: #38 KansasMom

I’m sooo going to hell.


We’ll all meet up. I’ll bring the casserole.

46 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:15:01pm

i wonder if mankind will ever see the day when we can leave superstition behind us.
i kind of doubt it.

47 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:15:15pm

re: #42 Escaped Hillbilly

Oh man, these are your choices of representation? Sucks to be you.

48 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:16:08pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

Well, I first off, it was Darthstar claims “with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.” He made the parallel and equation with the Taliban.

Secondly, I was just curious, since he mentioned that in regards to woman’s issues, Christian theology is “quite parallel” with the Taliban, I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

cool by me… good luck.

49 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:16:12pm

re: #45 Escaped Hillbilly

We’ll all meet up. I’ll bring the casserole.

I’ll bring the tea

I SWEAR it started out as Iced tea!

50 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:16:15pm

re: #44 brookly red

Um, no, it is the Republican, Webster, who’s telling people how to pray, here. That part really is true.

51 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:16:23pm

re: #41 Lawrence Schmerel

politics by its very nature is a sleazy buisness

52 simoom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:17:23pm

Here’s Anderson Cooper panning the ad last night:
[Link: cnn.com…]

53 Gus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:17:31pm

re: #51 Boondock St. Bender

politics by its very nature is a sleazy buisness

It wasn’t always that way.

//

54 KansasMom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:17:40pm

re: #45 Escaped Hillbilly

We’ll all meet up. I’ll bring the casserole.

Cool. Do they have a bar there, or is it BYOB?

55 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:17:54pm

re: #51 Boondock St. Bender

politics by its very nature is a sleazy buisness

So is selling used jockstraps!

(don’t ask!)
/

56 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:17:54pm

re: #39 celticdragon
They are pretty ignorant. But again, no religious police cruising the street beating girls for showing their legs. No one burning down schools that dare to teach girls. No one setting fire to women who dare to hold a job or go the the beauty parlor. Perspective. We can despise the stupid, ignorant and repugnant without comparing them to the greater evils of Taliban, Nazis, etc.

57 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:18:34pm

re: #47 Obdicut

Oh man, these are your choices of representation? Sucks to be you.


Sucks to be us. Aint nobody out there sterling.

58 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:18:55pm

re: #54 KansasMom

Cool. Do they have a bar there, or is it BYOB?

I had an uncle that was an alcoholic

He wanted to be a lawyer but couldn’t pass a bar!

59 brookly red  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:19:42pm

re: #50 Obdicut

Um, no, it is the Republican, Webster, who’s telling people how to pray, here. That part really is true.

if that makes you feel better…

60 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:19:57pm

re: #54 KansasMom
Well, I’ll be bringing my own… Oh, you mean beer. My bad. Uh, sure.

61 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:20:35pm

re: #58 sattv4u2
Old but funny…see I told you it depends on my mood.

62 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:21:06pm

re: #61 Escaped Hillbilly

Old but funny…see I told you it depends on my mood.

Yes ,, yes I am!

63 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:21:21pm

I want to hang my head and cry. Dems are simply too good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. What could have been a slam dunk will now be a talking point against him.

Which means we will get a GOP crazy, anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti woman religious fanatic, playing innocent, getting elected and then doing damage.

It is not that I like the Dems. It is that they are the far lesser of evils.

64 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:22:12pm

re: #56 Escaped Hillbilly

They are pretty ignorant. But again, no religious police cruising the street beating girls for showing their legs. No one burning down schools that dare to teach girls. No one setting fire to women who dare to hold a job or go the the beauty parlor. Perspective. We can despise the stupid, ignorant and repugnant without comparing them to the greater evils of Taliban, Nazis, etc.

I take your point, but the desire to control a woman’s body whether she likes it or not and based on what you think a book says starts becoming a real familiar theme, doesn’t it?

You can say that the ‘well meaning’ doctors who engaged in eugenics and mandatory sterilization here in the United States were not Nazis, of course…but they engaged in racist and vile, obtrusive and horrible practices that had much in common with Nazi racial theory.

65 mr.fusion  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:25:04pm

re: #40 Walter L. Newton

Secondly, I was just curious, since he mentioned that in regards to woman’s issues, Christian theology is “quite parallel” with the Taliban, I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”

Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus 21:9 “And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.”

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

66 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:25:37pm

It looks like quote mining has hit the big time coming out on video. I could use an additional income source. Something that will allow me to make the big money just like the Discovery Institute people. Anyone here know where I can take classes in creative/practical quote mining? And, do I need to wear one of those spiffy hard hats with the candles in front?

67 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:26:54pm

By the way, I just found a link to the Republican National Coalition for Life PAC where they rate GOP candidates on their anti-abortion purity, and my jaw is on the floor at how many of these candidates support the cruelest and most extreme anti-abortion positions — forcing women to give birth to a rapist’s baby, even if the rapist is her father.

By the number of these people, it looks to me like there’s going to be a very big push to make abortion flat-out illegal in all cases, coming soon.

If I’m reading the page correctly, 112 of the GOP candidates in this election support outright bans on abortion.

[Link: www.rnclife.org…]

68 jamie  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:28:18pm

Grayson is out there, but I’m not entirely sure he got this one wrong:

Find a verse. I have a verse for my wife; I have verses for my wife. Don’t pick the ones that say, um, she should submit to me. That’s in the Bible, but pick the ones that you’re supposed to do. So instead, love your wife, even as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it, as opposed to wives submit yourself to your own husband. She can pray that if she wants to, but don’t you pray it.

He’s instructing them to leave the submissiveness to the women, since it’s in the Bible for them to submit, and instead focus on the verses that call the men to action. This isn’t really like Breitbart, where the quoted portion gives an impression that is 180 degrees from the truth. Webster gives every indication that wives should submit to their husbands, he just wants them to do it while the husbands concern themselves with their own responsibilities.

Kind of glad I don’t have to chose either gentleman this fall…

69 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:28:43pm

re: #67 Charles

By the way, I just found a link to the Republican National Coalition for Life PAC where they rate GOP candidates on their anti-abortion purity, and my jaw is on the floor at how many of these candidates support the cruelest and most extreme anti-abortion positions — forcing women to give birth to a rapist’s baby, even if the rapist is her father.

By the number of these people, it looks to me like there’s going to be a very big push to make abortion flat-out illegal in all cases, coming soon.

If I’m reading the page correctly, 112 of the GOP candidates in this election support outright bans on abortion.

[Link: www.rnclife.org…]

You really need to make this a thread of its own!

70 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:29:34pm

re: #64 celticdragon

I take your point, but the desire to control a woman’s body whether she likes it or not and based on what you think a book says starts becoming a real familiar theme, doesn’t it?

You can say that the ‘well meaning’ doctors who engaged in eugenics and mandatory sterilization here in the United States were not Nazis, of course…but they engaged in racist and vile, obtrusive and horrible practices that had much in common with Nazi racial theory.

The only time a man (or woman) should try to control a woman’s (or man’s) body is when requested.

In bed.

Or in the kitchen.

Or in the living room.

Or the car.

Or …

71 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:29:39pm

re: #67 Charles

By the way, I just found a link to the Republican National Coalition for Life PAC where they rate GOP candidates on their anti-abortion purity, and my jaw is on the floor at how many of these candidates support the cruelest and most extreme anti-abortion positions — forcing women to give birth to a rapist’s baby, even if the rapist is her father.

By the number of these people, it looks to me like there’s going to be a very big push to make abortion flat-out illegal in all cases, coming soon.

If I’m reading the page correctly, 112 of the GOP candidates in this election support outright bans on abortion.

[Link: www.rnclife.org…]

You wonder why Taliban comparisons come up? After all the documentation you have done on the anti science/anti education/religion-as-government insanity from the current crop of GOP pols??

72 simoom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:30:21pm

Some video from the Webster speech (about two paragraphs or so):

73 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:31:05pm

re: #70 b_sharp

The only time a man (or woman) should try to control a woman’s (or man’s) body is when requested.

In bed.

Or in the kitchen.

Or in the living room.

Or the car.

Or …

Bad b_sharp! Bad!

74 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:31:25pm

re: #65 mr.fusion

I was going to post those, but Walter asked for Christian scriptures, and the Torah just isn’t their book. Sure, they pick and choose from it according to their tastes, like it’s a buffet or salad bar, but that doesn’t mean it belongs to them.

75 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:32:12pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

I was going to post those, but Walter asked for Christian scriptures, and the Torah just isn’t their book. Sure, they pick and choose from it according to their tastes, like it’s a buffet or salad bar, but that doesn’t mean it belongs to them.

They might disagree with you on that.

76 Vambo  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:32:29pm

What a disappointment, I think Grayson needs to apologize ASAP. I don’t think this ad, nor an apology, would cost him the election though. Christine O’Donnell, to name but one, tells a new lie every day and is still somewhat popular. Interestingly, it seems that both Democrats and Republicans hold Democratic candidates to higher standards.

77 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:32:37pm

re: #65 mr.fusion

Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”

Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus 21:9 “And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.”

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

Careful with your answer. Links?

78 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:32:53pm

re: #73 celticdragon

Bad b_sharp! Bad!

Aren’t you going to rub my nose in it?

79 Locker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:32:59pm

I am usually entertained if not in agreement with Rep Grayson but this here is complete bullshit. Fuck him and his fake video and his non-excuse.

80 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:33:56pm

re: #64 celticdragon
Sure. But I was addressing the “Taliban Dan” name and the obvious appeal to the Islamaphobes in the ad as well someone’s suggestion that his views parallel the Taliban’s. They don’t. There are no eugenics doctors currently practicing forced sterilization so we don’t need to be calling people Nazis. (Unless of course they dress up in leather and swastikas and picket little Illinois townships.) When you look at a beautiful young girl with her nose cut off, you know how extreme things can get.
There was a time early in our country’s history when women were “ducked” or beaten publicly for being a scold or being too pushy. This wasn’t witchcraft hysteria. These were the perfectly ordinary Americans who believed too literally in the Bible and its more sexist prohibitions. Thank good reason, those days are behind us. If someone like Webster tries to bring them back, I will fight him tooth and nail.

81 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:34:20pm

re: #78 b_sharp

Aren’t you going to rub my nose in it?

Naw…

:)

82 Locker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:34:28pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

Careful with your answer. Links?

You said “theology” not real world examples and on that point he is completely and totally accurate.

83 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:36:18pm

re: #75 celticdragon

They might disagree with you on that.

Sure they would, and they’d do so while chowing on some bacon wrapped scallops.

84 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:36:30pm

re: #65 mr.fusion


Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Sounds like someone who lost a fight once wrote this one! That’s good. Reason I am not Christian number…. oh drat, I lost count.

85 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:37:24pm

re: #74 goddamnedfrank

I was going to post those, but Walter asked for Christian scriptures, and the Torah just isn’t their book. Sure, they pick and choose from it according to their tastes, like it’s a buffet or salad bar, but that doesn’t mean it belongs to them.

I’ll ask you the same question…

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

There are a few fringe “covenant” style Christian groups, who will pick and choose from the laws and pronouncements in Torah, mainly in regards to certain scripture that talk of inheritors of G-d’s promises (they believe they are) and certain passages about homosexuality, but, aside from the “submission” passages in the Greek scriptures, I know of no active mainstream Christian group that practices corporal punishment towards woman as put forth in those 4 passages.

Can you enlighten me?

86 Boondock St. Bender  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:37:32pm

re: #83 goddamnedfrank

dude now you went and made me hungry….

87 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:37:59pm

re: #75 celticdragon

They might disagree with you on that.

And they would be wrong to do so - particularly without any of the oral tradition and particularly when their text is one of several possible translations, without the context of the oral tradition.

88 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:38:33pm

re: #83 goddamnedfrank

Sure they would, and they’d do so while chowing on some bacon wrapped scallops.

Not an answer. Evidently you and Mr. Fusion are making this all up then.

89 FriendsofHummus  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:39:43pm

Historian in me is amused that his opponent’s name is Daniel Webster.

90 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:39:48pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

Careful with your answer. Links?

Quick! Someone nail down that goalpost before it moves.

What happened during the Inquisition and the witch trials?

91 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:39:54pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws?

All of them that have anything to say about abortion or gay sex.

92 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:40:02pm
Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws?

Don’t the Ten Commandments count as Hebrew scriptures used by Christian denominations?

93 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:40:16pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

Careful with your answer. Links?

Christian Reconstructionists advocate for the imposition of Biblical punishments from Mosaic law, including public stoning of gay people and similar punishments for men and especially women convicted of breaches of Old Testament law.

Epitomizing the Reconstructionist idea of Biblical “warfare” is the centrality of capital punishment under Biblical Law. Doctrinal leaders (notably Rushdoony, North, and Bahnsen) call for the death penalty for a wide range of crimes in addition to such contemporary capital crimes as rape, kidnapping, and murder. Death is also the punishment for apostasy (abandonment of the faith), heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, “sodomy or homosexuality,” incest, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and, in the case of women, “unchastity before marriage.”

According to Gary North, women who have abortions should be publicly executed, “along with those who advised them to abort their children.” Rushdoony concludes: “God’s government prevails, and His alternatives are clear-cut: either men and nations obey His laws, or God invokes the death penalty against them.” Reconstructionists insist that “the death penalty is the maximum, not necessarily the mandatory penalty.” However, such judgments may depend less on Biblical Principles than on which faction gains power in the theocratic republic. The potential for bloodthirsty episodes on the order of the Salem witchcraft trials or the Spanish Inquisition is inadvertently revealed by Reconstructionist theologian Rev. Ray Sutton, who claims that the Reconstructed Biblical theocracies would be “happy” places, to which people would flock because “capital punishment is one of the best evangelistic tools of a society.”

More on Gary North here.

94 mr.fusion  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:40:51pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

Careful with your answer. Links?

Relax there Turbo. You said:

I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

Last I check the OT is Christian scripture. Now all of a sudden you’re looking for recent examples?

95 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:41:44pm

re: #91 Obdicut

All of them that have anything to say about abortion or gay sex.

You mean the ones who try to kill doctors?

96 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:41:57pm

re: #91 Obdicut

All of them that have anything to say about abortion or gay sex.

You’re right, as I detailed above. But you failed to answer my question. I’ll try again.

What are the parallels between the Taliban and “Christian Taliban” in regards to treatment of woman?

97 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:42:24pm

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

I’ll ask you the same question…

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

There are a few fringe “covenant” style Christian groups, who will pick and choose from the laws and pronouncements in Torah, mainly in regards to certain scripture that talk of inheritors of G-d’s promises (they believe they are) and certain passages about homosexuality, but, aside from the “submission” passages in the Greek scriptures, I know of no active mainstream Christian group that practices corporal punishment towards woman as put forth in those 4 passages.

Can you enlighten me?

We don’t cut off hands in Jewish law Walter. As to the stoning and the burning, they are not what you might think, and the law is written in such a way that it is impossible to get a conviction.

The fact is that these things were a moot debate over 2,500 years ago by Jewish standards. If anything the problem with Christians and Muslims in particular is that while Jewish Laws have all sorts of things on the books, they are not enforceable by a Beit Din that follows Jewish Law, except in the most extreme cases, while Christians and Muslims who rejected the Oral Law - or never heard of it _ thought we were being “lax.”

The relevant oral law ere are the laws of court procedure and what constitutes evidence. It is impossible to convict, by design.

Because of this, many consider these forms of death to be something spiritual that happens at judgement.

98 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:43:51pm

re: #94 mr.fusion

Relax there Turbo. You said:

I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

Last I check the OT is Christian scripture. Now all of a sudden you’re looking for recent examples?

It’s the rolling goal defence. Only works with the unaware.

99 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:44:58pm

re: #94 mr.fusion

Relax there Turbo. You said:

I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

Last I check the OT is Christian scripture. Now all of a sudden you’re looking for recent examples?

No… you know what my original question was to Darthstar, which was also directed to you, since you jumped into the discussion. Now, enough with the deflections, please show me some real world examples of this statement by Darthstar…

“Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.”

100 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:45:25pm

re: #91 Obdicut

All of them that have anything to say about abortion or gay sex.

Abortion is permitted in Jewish Law. It is not always permitted as a blanket right, but it is certainly possible to abort under Jewish Law.

In fact, one of the places where you see it clearly is directly, without need of commentary, in scripture. If you get in a fight and kill someone it is murder. If you get in a fight and cause a pregnant woman to miscarry, it is still a crime, but it is not murder.

Gay sex is another one which is on the books, but unenforceable.

101 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:47:02pm

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Really, and what Christian denominations uses the Hebrew scriptures as their laws? Please give me examples… when was the last time you saw or heard of a Christian Talibans wife put to death, burnt with fire or had her hand cut off.

Careful with your answer. Links?

I don’t know of any ultra-Orthodox Jews who interpret these commandments literally!

102 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:49:50pm

re: #93 celticdragon
Ok, this is a good article informing on what this movement is supposed to be about. But it not only does not name even one public official or candidate that hold these views, it repeatedly does little more than insinuate that the views have somehow worked their way into the mainstream thought process without anyone even being aware of it. This is the same sort of accusation Conservatives make about Communism. There is a lot of Religious whackiness out there. But I do not believe we are in danger of succumbing to an American Taliban any time soon nor of returning to the Early American Puritanical criminal codes.

103 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:50:26pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

Abortion is permitted in Jewish Law. It is not always permitted as a blanket right, but it is certainly possible to abort under Jewish Law.

In fact, one of the places where you see it clearly is directly, without need of commentary, in scripture. If you get in a fight and kill someone it is murder. If you get in a fight and cause a pregnant woman to miscarry, it is still a crime, but it is not murder.

Gay sex is another one which is on the books, but unenforceable.

That’s the exact section I use when arguing with someone rabidly pro-life.

104 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:50:38pm

re: #101 Alouette

I don’t know of any ultra-Orthodox Jews who interpret these commandments literally!

Orthodox Jews would know Tracate Sanhedrin and what it takes to convict. They would tell people like Walter, and all the others who cite King James, in the absence of the full corpus of Jewish Law, that they are full of crap.

105 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:51:50pm

re: #101 Alouette

I don’t know of any ultra-Orthodox Jews who interpret these commandments literally!

Agreed. But we are talking about the Christian Taliban. Mr Fusion listed those laws above as an example of punishments that the Christian Taliban fosters apun their wives and women when they are caught sining or not being submissive.

I just want to be shown some real life examples of these Christian Taliban wifey submission practices?

106 KansasMom  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:52:40pm

re: #65 mr.fusion


Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Would kicking in the privates be ok then?

I’m assuming that I’m not supposed to be seizing the assailant by the privates…..because I can’t think of any guy that wants to be rescued by…um, yeah. Would probably rather be left with the assailant.

107 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:53:50pm

re: #37 Charles

By the way, regardless of what Grayson did here — Daniel Webster really is a religious fanatic.


I am sick and tired of the religious fanatics claiming to want smaller government while sticking their noses in the private lives of other Americans.

108 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:54:32pm

re: #106 KansasMom
Wait, wait. No, you got it. That’s what they meant. Now I understand. Yeah, definitely show her no mercy if she “rescues” her husband by pulling him by his…parts-we-are-not-supposed-to-know-exist.

109 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:55:50pm

re: #107 CarleeCork

I am sick and tired of the religious fanatics claiming to want smaller government while sticking their noses in the private lives of other Americans.


They mean REALLY small, like them and a couple of buddies…and of course the Lord. Got to have the Lord.

110 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:56:00pm

re: #19 darthstar

Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.

re: #65 mr.fusion

Deuteronomy 22:22 “If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die.”

Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus 21:9 “And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.”

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Well… I guess Darthstar and Mr. Fusion can’t show me how The Taliban and The Christian Taliban “are actually quite parallel” in regards to the treatment of woman.

111 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 2:58:12pm
112 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:00:12pm

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

re: #65 mr.fusion

Well… I guess Darthstar and Mr. Fusion can’t show me how The Taliban and The Christian Taliban “are actually quite parallel” in regards to the treatment of woman.

Really? I mean really Walter?

Charles has a thread just today about the GOP candidates wanting to force women into carrying to term even in the case of rape.

In fact there are several threads about that sort of intense lunacy per week on this very blog.

Is there some reason you are pretending they do not exist, other than to be a douche?

113 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:00:34pm

re: #111 Escaped Hillbilly

Who else should we vote for? Satan?

Cthulu! Why chose the lesser of evils!

114 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:01:15pm

re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote
Devil cake ring, I rebuke you!

115 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:02:39pm

re: #110 Walter L. Newton
I seem to recall a bible verse about stoning your disobedient children to death.

116 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:03:55pm

re: #112 LudwigVanQuixote

Really? I mean really Walter?

Charles has a thread just today about the GOP candidates wanting to force women into carrying to term even in the case of rape.

In fact there are several threads about that sort of intense lunacy per week on this very blog.

Is there some reason you are pretending they do not exist, other than to be a douche?

Yep, but they are still no where near the level of the Taliban. Arguments about theory or belief or theology aside. No one is actually cutting off noses, setting people on fire, or cutting heads off. Webster has come nowhere close to Taliban levels of evil. He is an ignorant Bible thumper who would NOT be good for this country and in particular for women. But he is not the Taliban.

117 mr.fusion  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:03:57pm

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

re: #65 mr.fusion

Well… I guess Darthstar and Mr. Fusion can’t show me how The Taliban and The Christian Taliban “are actually quite parallel” in regards to the treatment of woman.

Give me a freaking break

I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

118 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:04:30pm

re: #115 CarleeCork

I seem to recall a bible verse about stoning your disobedient children to death.

Yes, there is a Hebrew scripture, Deuteronomy 22:23-24, that mentions stoning your children. Can you show me some real life examples of Christian Taliban’s carrying this out?

119 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:07:29pm

re: #117 mr.fusion

Give me a freaking break

I was looking for some examples of punishments set forth in Christian scripture detailing the corporal punishments that are similar.

No… first off, I didn’t ask for scripture from Darthstar, I asked for real life examples of Christian Taliban carrying out corporal punishments like the Islamic Taliban.

You are totally, fully aware of my question and subsequent follow ups.

You nor Darthstar can show me the parallel, as so succinctly stated by Darthstar… “are actually quite parallel”

Fail Mr. Fusion.

120 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:09:47pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

Yes, there is a Hebrew scripture, Deuteronomy 22:23-24, that mentions stoning your children. Can you show me some real life examples of Christian Taliban’s carrying this out?


No, I believe people use other methods to deal with disobedience. I recall a woman here in Texas that cut off her baby’s arms after god told her to. Another woman here in Texas (we have lots of crazies) drowned her children to save them from satan.

121 Escaped Hillbilly  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:13:46pm

re: #120 CarleeCork

No, I believe people use other methods to deal with disobedience. I recall a woman here in Texas that cut off her baby’s arms after god told her to. Another woman here in Texas (we have lots of crazies) drowned her children to save them from satan.

Those are not religious extremists. They are garden variety schizophrenics and manic/depressives. They don’t represent any new wave of thought or politic party or even a group larger than their own families. They are not a “Christian Taliban.” You have to be superior to do a superiority dance.

122 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:16:41pm

re: #120 CarleeCork

No, I believe people use other methods to deal with disobedience. I recall a woman here in Texas that cut off her baby’s arms after god told her to. Another woman here in Texas (we have lots of crazies) drowned her children to save them from satan.

Bingo… as you said… crazies. Such as the crazy person that shot up the Discovery Channel HQ. Such as the nut case that shot himself at the Texas university today.

But, you still didn’t answer the question. We have actual laws, scripture, pronouncements, by both Mohammed and teachers, detailing the different corporal punishments to be meted out to disobedient woman. And contemporary history proves to us that this is a active cultural practice among certain segments of the Islamic world, especially the Taliban.

So, back to my question… Darthstar trotted out the Magical Balance Fairy claiming ” Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.” in comment #19.

So, show me those parallel’s. Not fringe, isolated incidents. Show me a consistent religious practice among the Christian Taliban in regards to the treatment of woman, consistent enough to claim that they are “parallel.”

Waiting?

123 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:23:54pm

The way I see it, if you submit voluntarily, it’s not any sort of chattel situation. It’s just a decision.

If I go on a climb with a more experienced climber, it is in my own best interest to follow closely his/her advice and instructions. If I’m helping my wife with a task that she knows inside out, the most effective help I can give will be by way of reasoning obedience.

Couples have all sorts of ways to get along. In my own marriage, we argue, we talk things out, we arrive at some sort of resolution. But reasoned obedience is a strategy that might fit some couples.

It’s not at all a one-sided situation, even in a traditional marriage. The man, as well as the woman, must not commit adultery, for example. He has voluntarily surrendered, in the interest of sustaining the marriage, a right he would otherwise have—-to sleep with whom he pleases, when he pleases, so long as she, or he for that matter, is willing and competent to give consent.

I know couples who go this traditional route. The woman is not broken, defeated, or subservient. She’s simply decided how she wants to live.

124 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:27:47pm

re: #121 Escaped Hillbilly
So they’re not equal to the taliban, yet. The religious crazies have started rewriting the history of this country and denying science. They wish to deny other religions their 1st Amendment rights. They wish to establish an official religion. They wish to control a woman’s reproductive system. We are headed backward, not forward. If you haven’t noticed these things happening you haven’t been paying attention.

125 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 3:34:54pm

re: #124 CarleeCork

So they’re not equal to the taliban, yet. The religious crazies have started rewriting the history of this country and denying science. They wish to deny other religions their 1st Amendment rights. They wish to establish an official religion. They wish to control a woman’s reproductive system. We are headed backward, not forward. If you haven’t noticed these things happening you haven’t been paying attention.

I have noticed what you are pointing out. And I’m against it whole heartily… but you still failed in answering my question.

You don’t have much faith in our constitution. Too bad.

126 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:00:37pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

I just meant that Christians use the Old Testament to justify their views on abortion and gay sex; not that they do so correctly.

127 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:22:11pm

I don’t know why MSNBC likes this guy so much. Didn’t they expect someone would find the full context of the statement?

128 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:28:38pm

re: #127 joest73

What does MSNBC have to do with this?

129 CarleeCork  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:32:49pm

re: #125 Walter L. Newton
You’re right, but I like Grayson. He’s the first dem I’ve seen use the same damn tactics the cons have been using for years. It wasn’t smart, but at least he has a pair, unlike most of dems.

Go Grayson!

130 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:38:52pm

re: #129 CarleeCork

Even though he’s jumping on the anti-Muslim bandwagon to do it?

131 William of Orange  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:39:41pm

|I don’t know what to think. This ad went over the line but on the other hand he’s one of the most active democrats outhere. He shakes up the room and, let’s face it, he makes politics entertaining again. He’s not scared of Republicans and his critics. And on the healthcare issue he was dead on.

So what puzzles me is why this mistake.

132 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:40:43pm

re: #128 Obdicut

What does MSNBC have to do with this?

I watched the MSNBC Brewer-Grayson interview in complete disgust of Grayson. The comparison to Breitbart is correct. His defense of the ad was completely illogical. You know you are in trouble when you lose MSNBC.
We have seen Breitbart in similar situations where he tries to spin himself out of something he can’t defend. The big difference here is Grayson is in the Congress.

133 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:44:03pm

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

(snip)

So, back to my question… Darthstar trotted out the Magical Balance Fairy claiming ” Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.” in comment #19.

So, show me those parallel’s. Not fringe, isolated incidents. Show me a consistent religious practice among the Christian Taliban in regards to the treatment of woman, consistent enough to claim that they are “parallel.”

Waiting?

I’m not sure what you’re waiting for, your original question was answered more than once. You didn’t ask for a real world example until after the answer.

Here is the original comment.

re: #19 darthstar

Well, it’s real good if you ascribe to the same principles he does, which, with regard to women’s issues, are actually quite parallel to those of the Taliban.

Which Christian scriptures goes on to detail various corporal punishments if a Christian Taliban’s wife refuses to submit to her husband? Can you give me list?

Please note the bolded segments. Darth was comparing principles, not actions. You were asking for scriptures. You asked for a list. You got one.

You even repeated your demand in comment #40.

My suggestion: Don’t go jumping on people after they answer your question.

134 joest73  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 4:44:17pm

re: #131 William of Orange

|I don’t know what to think. This ad went over the line but on the other hand he’s one of the most active democrats outhere. He shakes up the room and, let’s face it, he makes politics entertaining again. He’s not scared of Republicans and his critics. And on the healthcare issue he was dead on.

So what puzzles me is why this mistake.

Grayson is to the Democrats what Sharron Angle and Rand Paul will be for the Republicans.

135 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:40:33pm

re: #132 joest73

So MSNBC doesn’t love him, then.

You’re an odd duck.

136 dr. luba  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 5:58:16pm

re: #131 William of Orange

|I don’t know what to think. This ad went over the line but on the other hand he’s one of the most active democrats outhere. He shakes up the room and, let’s face it, he makes politics entertaining again. He’s not scared of Republicans and his critics. And on the healthcare issue he was dead on.

So what puzzles me is why this mistake.

Because only republicans are allowed to play dirty, to take quotes out of context, and even to just plain lie. For them it’s SOP and the media looks the other way.

137 ClaudeMonet  Tue, Sep 28, 2010 9:59:14pm

re: #26 celticdragon

Somebody tell these people that it is no longer 1978, and Satanic Rock seminars at your local church are no longer the big community event for the week.

They are if you’re showing how to compose and play Satanic Rock.

re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote

Cthulu! Why chose the lesser of evils!

I agree. If you’re going to go for evil, why be half-assed about it?


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 445 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1