In my practice, I’ve seen how people have allowed their humanity to drain away. Only it happened slowly instead of all at once. They didn’t seem to mind…All of us - a little bit - we harden our hearts, grow callous. Only when we have to fight to stay human do we realize how precious it is to us, how dear.
— Invasion of the Body Snatchers
1 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Oct 4, 2010 10:39:14pm |
Well, the only thing I can say about that is this.
| 3 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:30:59pm |
Man, I hate obvious plot twists in a movie.
| 4 |
shai_au Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:33:14pm |
Is that line from the book, or one of the films? And which of the films is it from? I’m assuming the Donald Sutherland one.
| 5 |
shai_au Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:35:02pm |
re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Man, I hate obvious plot twists in a movie.
Obvious? That was completely unexpected! Maybe it’s been so overdone now that it would look obvious to modern audiences, but it freaked me out when I saw it the first time. O_o
| 6 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:36:18pm |
re: #4 shai_au
Is that line from the book, or one of the films? And which of the films is it from? I’m assuming the Donald Sutherland one.
The 56 one.
| 7 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:37:09pm |
re: #5 shai_au
Obvious? That was completely unexpected! Maybe it’s been so overdone now that it would look obvious to modern audiences, but it freaked me out when I saw it the first time. O_o
No, i’m refering to the supposed mystery I was watching where it became obvious who the secret mastermind was about 30 minutes into the movie.
| 8 |
Sol Berdinowitz Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:41:33pm |
re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, i’m refering to the supposed mystery I was watching where it became obvious who the secret mastermind was about 30 minutes into the movie.
Yes, it’s YOU!!!
| 9 |
Summer Seale Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:42:50pm |
Good morning everyone, from the office. I just watched the Christine O’Donnell ad and now I don’t need my second cup of coffee.
I didn’t know she’s me. I don’t think that she’s me. I’m fairly sure that I don’t have a barbaric bronze-aged view of the universe, so I’m almost certain that I can say that she has nothing to do with me. But having found out that she thinks that she’s me was enough to wake me up in a very shocking way.
So good morning, everyone…and now I need to calm down after viewing that shocking revelation….
| 10 |
shai_au Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:42:52pm |
re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, i’m refering to the supposed mystery I was watching where it became obvious who the secret mastermind was about 30 minutes into the movie.
Ah, ok.
I must say I preferred the ‘56 version to the other one. It was less straight horror and more… eerie. The ending sucked though. It should have ended with Kevin McCarthy screaming “YOU’RE NEXT” into the camera, but the studio chickened out. :(
I did love the horrible scream that they made in subsequent versions, though. That was very, very effective.
| 11 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:46:36pm |
re: #10 shai_au
Ah, ok.
I must say I preferred the ‘56 version to the other one. It was less straight horror and more… eerie. The ending sucked though. It should have ended with Kevin McCarthy screaming “YOU’RE NEXT” into the camera, but the studio chickened out. :(
I did love the horrible scream that they made in subsequent versions, though. That was very, very effective.
It was a running gag between me and several buddies if anyone asked if you’re feeling ok or said you were acting weird, we would point and howl.
As far as alien invader movies, I think the 90s version of “The Puppet Masters”, also with Donald Sutherland, was pretty well done.
| 12 |
shai_au Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:49:56pm |
re: #10 shai_au
Ah, ok.
I must say I preferred the ‘56 version to the other one.
Should have said the other ones. There was that TV movie set on the military base, which I actually quite enjoyed. And the Nicole Kidman one, which was… yeah.
| 13 |
ClaudeMonet Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:50:23pm |
re: #10 shai_au
Ah, ok.
I must say I preferred the ‘56 version to the other one. It was less straight horror and more… eerie. The ending sucked though. It should have ended with Kevin McCarthy screaming “YOU’RE NEXT” into the camera, but the studio chickened out. :(
I did love the horrible scream that they made in subsequent versions, though. That was very, very effective.
RIP Kevin McCarthy. Fine actor. Just died this past 9/11 at age 96 (!).
| 14 |
shai_au Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:51:56pm |
re: #13 ClaudeMonet
RIP Kevin McCarthy. Fine actor. Just died this past 9/11 at age 96 (!).
He died?? I wasn’t even aware that he was still alive.
Wow, he sure had a good innings.
| 15 |
AlexRogan Mon, Oct 4, 2010 11:55:59pm |
re: #13 ClaudeMonet
RIP Kevin McCarthy. Fine actor. Just died this past 9/11 at age 96 (!).
Damn, didn’t know he died or even that he was that was that old…loved him in Innerspace.
| 16 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:00:46am |
re: #9 Summer
Good morning everyone, from the office. I just watched the Christine O’Donnell ad and now I don’t need my second cup of coffee.
I didn’t know she’s me. I don’t think that she’s me. I’m fairly sure that I don’t have a barbaric bronze-aged view of the universe, so I’m almost certain that I can say that she has nothing to do with me. But having found out that she thinks that she’s me was enough to wake me up in a very shocking way.
So good morning, everyone…and now I need to calm down after viewing that shocking revelation…
She is supposed to be a surface onto which you project your ideal image of what an honest, hard-working politician should be.
One who is going to do things differently from every other politician who has proceeded her.
And my next girlfriend is not going to turn out to be major mental like all the other ones, really…
| 17 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:04:51am |
I’m voting Republican because …
| 18 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:22:35am |
| 19 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:23:59am |
| 21 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:43:49am |
| 22 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:46:26am |
| 23 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:52:54am |
2 weeks till Fallout New Vegas and the thing I’m most looking forward to see is how they set up the sound track.
From Fallout 3;
Nothing like gunning down mutants with a minigun to the classics
| 24 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Oct 5, 2010 1:50:37am |
re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Mini-guns lack the grace and finesse of a well placed eye shot with one of these.
You go ahead with the “spray and pray” plan. While you’re putting high speed hell through the cars, walls, and your own buddies around me, I’ll be zeroing in that single shot aimed at your pupil.
| 26 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 2:09:39am |
Are they trying to give us a hint?
“U.S. military orders less dependence on fossil fuels”
| 27 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 2:16:16am |
re: #26 ralphieboy
Deep in the bowels of the Pentagon must reside some die-hard peak-oil-ers, as they’ve been coming out with documents, about the need to move off of petroleum ASAP, for a few years now.
Not that the (supposedly supporters of the military) Drill-Here-Drill-Now crowd has been paying any attention.
| 29 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 2:44:08am |
re: #27 freetoken
Their opposition seems to be tactical rather than strategic: they find it hard to operate with an overextended and vulnerable supply line
| 30 |
mdey Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:10:04am |
I’m having problems with getting youtube to run. I tried all of the troubleshooting tips at the site. Any suggestions?
| 31 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:13:02am |
re: #29 ralphieboy
Well, yes, that is how it is often spun, as seen on the MSNBC article.
But ask yourself - why then the emphasis on bio-fuels? A bio-fuel raised in Iowa or oil pumped out of TX fields both have to be transported across the ocean.
Also, the DoD is one of the groups looking into coal-to-liquids. Again, these liquids like all from petroleum have to be transported.
| 33 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:18:17am |
re: #31 freetoken
Then there is the aspect that the military is getting tired of being called on to guarantee access to one particular energy source when there are others available that do not involve maintaining a military presence in politically and socially unstable parts of the world.
| 34 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:19:06am |
Ate at an “authentic” Italian Restaurant yesterday. Travis Tritt (or some other great Italian artist) was playing over the loud speakers, the waitress had prison tats and a large screen TV in the dining room had SportsCenter on…
What a country!
| 35 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:22:55am |
re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Traviso Trittario was probably singing about the power of love and how it changes our lives. The waitresses with the prison tatoos were probably in for crimes of passion. Sounds authentic to me.
| 36 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:25:31am |
re: #33 ralphieboy
What would happen in the Middle East if the world became oil (for energy) independent?
| 37 |
GreatWizard Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:30:30am |
A bit off topic, but I think you will find this interesting, seeing how evolution and global warming are main topics on this site now. The Israeli chief scientist (a political position of sorts ) was fired after he spoke against evolution and global warming.
| 38 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:31:59am |
re: #35 ralphieboy
heh…
Was a pretty rural area. Waitress spoke with a thick rural black accent (she was wonderful). SportsCenter was fine, was three in the afternoon so I was the only customer in the joint.
I gave her a three dollar tip on a 10.00 meal, you’d have thought I gave her fifty bucks.
There were five names on the “ABC Manager” plaque, all very Italian names… There was not an “Italian” within ten miles of the place for as far as I could tell.
But Travis Tritt? Really?
| 39 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:34:48am |
re: #36 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What would happen in the Middle East if the world became oil (for energy) independent?
irrelevant…
| 40 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:35:16am |
re: #35 ralphieboy
A bottle of white, a bottle of red,
Perhaps a big old redneck instead…
Scenes from a Southern Italian Restaurant.
| 41 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:36:15am |
re: #39 ralphieboy
Oh, I know… not really a shot back at you. Was just rhetorical.
What else does the Middle East have to sell that will support it’s infrastructure?
| 42 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:37:19am |
re: #37 GreatWizard
Good to see Israel taking science seriously.
| 43 |
GreatWizard Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:38:42am |
In an additional note to the article I linked, the english language Israeli news sites are frequented by religious american Jews, which can explain the comments. It doesn’t represent the sentiment of the Israeli public on the matter.
| 44 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:39:20am |
re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Very little. Historically, they had some agriculture— dates, some spices— but not much else. They haven’t really invested their money well in anything that would provide people for jobs.
There are plenty of uberwealthy people there whose wealth is distributed in non-oil companies who could give back to their communities and found new companies there, but since those are the same assholes who are content to live in a stratified caste society, I somehow doubt it.
| 45 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:41:09am |
richard12 is still raving about…
Sheesh.
Morning.
| 46 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:42:05am |
| 47 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:42:15am |
re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh, I know… not really a shot back at you. Was just rhetorical.
What else does the Middle East have to sell that will support it’s infrastructure?
Theoretically it could offer itself as a hub of world trade, but that would require political stability. Something about reliance on natural resources that breeds instability.
| 48 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:48:09am |
re: #47 ralphieboy
The farther the world moves away from oil dependence, the closer that oil export rich/dependent countries (example; Texas) move toward absolute chaos.
| 49 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:50:56am |
re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, oil is going to remain useful as an industrial product for a long time. There’s a ton of things that depend on petroleum other than burning the shit for energy. So the price won’t be a catastrophic drop, even if we move away from it a lot quicker than it currently looks like the anti-science lunatic brigade will let us.
| 50 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:52:55am |
re: #49 Obdicut
Well, oil is going to remain useful as an industrial product for a long time. There’s a ton of things that depend on petroleum other than burning the shit for energy. So the price won’t be a catastrophic drop, even if we move away from it a lot quicker than it currently looks like the anti-science lunatic brigade will let us.
Their actions are actually quickening the rate at which we use oil.
Funny, no?
| 51 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:56:37am |
re: #50 Varek Raith
Not so much “funny ha ha” as “Funny, I was hoping my kid wouldn’t inhabit a Mad Max style landscape.”
| 52 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:57:26am |
It’s an ideology thing: lots of folks still insist that our standard of living is based directly on our consumption of energy, primarily fossil fuels. Any attempt to limit or curtail our consumption is a plot to wreck our economy and our unique American Way of Life
| 53 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:58:58am |
re: #52 ralphieboy
My depression-era Grandparents, who saw the American way of life as being able to live within your means when the situation demanded it, to be able to creatively adapt to fewer resources, and to do for yourself what you can’t buy, literally couldn’t understand why people have a problem cutting down on energy consumption.
| 54 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 3:59:29am |
re: #51 Obdicut
Not so much “funny ha ha” as “Funny, I was hoping my kid wouldn’t inhabit a Mad Max style landscape.”
I’m prepared for that.
Got the location of the perfect car that can be modified to fit such a world.
/
| 55 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 4:00:38am |
re: #52 ralphieboy
It’s an ideology thing: lots of folks still insist that our standard of living is based directly on our consumption of energy, primarily fossil fuels. Any attempt to limit or curtail our consumption is a plot to wreck our economy and our unique American Way of Life
It’s a source of pride for me that I live so efficiently.
Wish the majority would think the same…
| 56 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Oct 5, 2010 4:02:36am |
re: #55 Varek Raith
It’s a source of pride for me that I live so efficiently.
Wish the majority would think the same…
Rush says you are an elitist who wants us all to live in lean-tos and wipe our butts with toilet paper…
of to work, bbl
| 57 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 4:04:06am |
re: #56 ralphieboy
Rush says you are an elitist who wants us all to live in lean-tos and wipe our butts with toilet paper…
of to work, bbl
My Ivory Tower is fully off the grid!
Suck it, Rush!
/
| 59 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 4:09:02am |
re: #58 Varek Raith
If you caught the cold I had, don’t worry, it only lasts a week and makes you feel like complete crap.
| 60 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 4:19:17am |
Way to crash, FF.
re: #59 Obdicut
If you caught the cold I had, don’t worry, it only lasts a week and makes you feel like complete crap.
I’m so gonna sue you if that’s the case.
:)
| 61 |
sagehen Tue, Oct 5, 2010 4:31:49am |
| 62 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:29:03am |
Morning Honcos. Yesterday sucked big. Ovens at work were (are) down. Fire alarm went off, bringing me pretty fire trucks. But it is over. Today is a new day. And my radio has started the day with a skank from Westboro Baptist Church and now the guy who was gonna burn the Koran is on my radio. God told him not to burn the Koran. M’kay.
| 63 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:35:47am |
Holy crap!! It is only gonna be 84 degrees today and in the 60’s tonight. Soon there will be no A/C usage.
| 64 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:39:27am |
Man, Kathy Griffin’s “It Gets Better” video kicks fucking ass.
| 66 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:45:18am |
re: #63 Cannadian Club Akbar
Holy crap!! It is only gonna be 84 degrees today and in the 60’s tonight. Soon there will be no A/C usage.
I just walked outside. Fall smells wonderful.
| 67 |
William of Orange Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:48:56am |
The Balls!!
How in the hell is this possible??!!
After the economy slipped into recession in 2008, millions of Americans received unemployment benefits to make ends meet — including almost 3,000 millionaires.
According to U.S. Internal Revenue Service data, 2,840 households reporting at least $1 million in income on their tax returns that year also collected a total of $18.6 million in jobless aid. They included 806 taxpayers with incomes over $2 million and 17 with incomes in excess of $10 million. In all, multimillionaires reported receiving $5.2 million in jobless benefits.
Those numbers are a minuscule fraction of the 9.5 million taxpayers who reported receiving $43.7 billion from jobless benefits in 2008, up from 7.6 million recipients reporting $29.4 billion in benefits in 2007. Still, economists said they are surprised so many people with seven-figure incomes claimed benefits.
| 68 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:52:59am |
re: #67 William of Orange
If they’re entitled to the benefits, why not?
| 69 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:53:26am |
French cops arrest 11 people with suspected Islamic extremist links
French anti-terror police Tuesday arrested 11 people suspected of links with Muslim extremists, a French online news site reported.
Eight men were detained around the southern cities of Marseille and Avignon on suspicion of trafficking firearms and explosives. AFP put the figure at nine arrests.
According to French news channel LCI, three others were arrested in a separate operation for membership of an extremist group and being part of a cell planning to supply shelter and fake ID papers to Jihadists attempting to return to France after undergoing training on the Afghan-Pakistan border.
Two of those suspects were arrested in Marseille and the third in Bordeaux in the southwest, a police source told AFP. Officials stressed that the two sets of arrests were not linked.
In the second raid, three of the suspects’ phone numbers were found in the phone of Ryad Hannouni, who was picked up Saturday close to the central train station in the Italian city of Naples allegedly carrying a bomb-making kit.
The 28-year-old Algerian is suspected of being the head of the terror cell. A European arrest warrant was issued for his extradition to France, ANSA news agency said.
| 70 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:56:33am |
re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
If they’re entitled to the benefits, why not?
When I was fired/ laid off from my last job, I got 1 check. Then I got a letter saying the State wanted their money back. Good luck with that.
| 71 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Oct 5, 2010 5:58:23am |
re: #67 William of Orange
The Balls!!
How in the hell is this possible??!!
Can we get a facepalm re: this??
| 72 |
rhino2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:01:27am |
| 73 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:03:49am |
I’m pretty sure I am in the poverty rate!! Woot!! Oh, wait.
/
| 74 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:07:26am |
Woops!
Toking News: CBS News Reporter Busted for Growing Marijuana
Georgetown is home to a lot of people who could be growing marijuana on the sly: lacrosse players, congressional aides and … respected radio journalists?
Howard Arenstein probably regretted the fact that he doesn’t live in California this weekend. The veteran CBS Radio News reporter was arrested Saturday morning in his home in the posh Georgetown area of Washington DC and charged with possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.
Police searched Arenstein’s home after receiving a tip from a neighbor. According to the police report, officers found 11 cannabis plants growing in the back yard. They also seized six two-ounce bags of marijuana. Arenstein was released without bail on Sunday.
Arenstein’s wife Orly Azoulay, a Washington correspondent for the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, was also arrested. Whether the couple were fans of the hit Showtime series Weeds has not been ascertained.
| 75 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:14:05am |
re: #74 NJDhockeyfan
Woops!
My friend got busted for growing a plant. When the cops raided his house, he had a pound and a half. All in 1 bag. Charge? Possession of weed of over one ounce. He had a triple bean and baggies, but it wasn’t busted apart for a trafficking charge. The plant was about 8 inches tall. The police storm trooped the place.
| 76 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:14:58am |
re: #75 Cannadian Club Akbar
Triple beam, pimf. Geez.
| 78 |
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:19:08am |
Under the spell of the Boy Detective!
| 79 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:22:18am |
re: #75 Cannadian Club Akbar
My friend got busted for growing a plant. When the cops raided his house, he had a pound and a half. All in 1 bag. Charge? Possession of weed of over one ounce. He had a triple bean and baggies, but it wasn’t busted apart for a trafficking charge. The plant was about 8 inches tall. The police storm trooped the place.
When I moved to Virginian back in 1990 a city official near Richmond got busted for growing weed. When the cops arrived at his house they caught him walking to his large garden of plants in the backyard with two buckets of Miracle-Gro.
| 80 |
rhino2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:27:57am |
| 81 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:29:28am |
The quote at the start of the thread is very pertinent to our situation now. My big problem with the nanny state is that people will rely LESS on each other and more on the govt. And the inevitable result of that is a less “charitable” society since people will have less money to give to charity. That would be a large rip in our country’s social fabric
| 82 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:31:58am |
re: #81 _RememberTonyC
The quote at the start of the thread is very pertinent to our situation now. My big problem with the nanny state is that people will rely LESS on each other and more on the govt. And the inevitable result of that is a less “charitable” society since people will have less money to give to charity. That would be a large rip in our country’s social fabric
We shouldn’t allow people to take charitable donations off of their taxable income. That should help.
//need I?
| 83 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:33:18am |
A federal judge in the U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia has denied a motion to dismiss complaints by five former clients of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).CAIR is a Muslim organization previously named as a Muslim Brotherhood-Hamas front group by the FBI and U.S. Attorney’s Office in the federal criminal trial and conviction of a terrorist funding cell organized around one of the largest Muslim charities, the Holy Land Foundation, which raised funds for violent jihad on behalf of Hamas.
CAIR had asked federal court judge Paul L. Friedman to dismiss the fraud cases on several grounds, but the judge refused CAIR’s request in its entirety.
(Judge Friedman did dismiss one duplicative claim of consumer fraud based on D.C. law because he allowed an identical claim under Virginia law, ruling that Virginia law applied in the case).
The five former clients had earlier this year filed two separate lawsuits in federal court alleging common law and statutory fraud, breach of fiduciary duty, and intentional infliction of emotional distress against CAIR, a self-described Muslim public interest civil rights law firm. These two lawsuits follow an earlier lawsuit which had also alleged that CAIR’s fraudulent conduct amounted to racketeering, a federal RICO crime. In that case, the court dismissed the RICO counts concluding that CAIR’s conduct as alleged was fraudulent but not a technical violation of RICO.
The two new federal civil complaints were filed in the federal district court for the District of Columbia on January 6, 2010, and served on January 13, 2010. CAIR filed its motion to dismiss on February 26, 2010, and the matter was fully briefed by May 15, 2010.
Both lawsuits arise out of the same facts and as a result the court has consolidated the two cases.
Hehehehehe.
| 84 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:33:38am |
re: #82 Cannadian Club Akbar
We shouldn’t allow people to take charitable donations off of their taxable income. That should help.
//need I?
Or you could be like Al Gore and give almost nothing to charity.
| 85 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:33:48am |
re: #81 _RememberTonyC
The quote at the start of the thread is very pertinent to our situation now. My big problem with the nanny state is that people will rely LESS on each other and more on the govt. And the inevitable result of that is a less “charitable” society since people will have less money to give to charity. That would be a large rip in our country’s social fabric
Is there a link or a study perhaps you could point me to that would support that view?
Thanks
| 87 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:35:58am |
re: #85 ozbloke
Is there a link or a study perhaps you could point me to that would support that view?
Thanks
Yes … It’s from the book of common sense … Www.isntitobvious?.com”
| 88 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:42:54am |
re: #87 _RememberTonyC
Yes … It’s from the book of common sense … [Link: Www.isntitobvious?.com…]
Do I understand you correctly?
If the govt via taxation takes money and re-distributes it to the poor and or underprivileded, then America/Americans will be worse of because ‘Others’ did not have it to give to the poor?
If I may…
Some hard worker has x million accumulated.
He get taxed an extra lets say 20 grand a year.
That money is given to the poor/underprivileded so the ‘hard worker’ now only has x million-20g and now can’t give to the poor. So America is worse off, the social fabric is destroyed?
Your link don’t work :)
| 90 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:47:03am |
re: #88 ozbloke
Uh, I think you’re not understanding. If the Gubment takes 20K, why not next year take 30? Then 40. Then 50? Why should the gubment have the right to decide who my money goes to? It’s my money.
| 91 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:47:31am |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
Because you are an idiot.
-The Government
| 92 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:48:03am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Faizal Shahzad, the Times Square bomber, will be sentenced today. He’s already entered a guilty plea on 10 terror-related counts and could face life in prison.
His story is a cautionary tale - a Muslim drawn to extremism and jihad, rolled into Taliban circles and got training and funding - all with an eye to carrying out a mass casualty attack. He was a whole lot closer to success than many people realize and it was fortuitous that no one was hurt when his bomb fizzled.
Al Qaeda and the Taliban appear to have adjusted tactics, opting for Mumbai-styled attacks to generate a body count, and it is quite likely that the German terrorists killed in yesterday’s UAV airstrikes (well it was that or they died of heartbreak over learning that Hasselhoff lost on DWTS) were part of a group of Westerners looking to join up with the jihad when they were interdicted with extreme prejudice before they could carry out their plans.
| 93 |
garhighway Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:48:41am |
re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Ate at an “authentic” Italian Restaurant yesterday. Travis Tritt (or some other great Italian artist) was playing over the loud speakers, the waitress had prison tats and a large screen TV in the dining room had SportsCenter on…
What a country!
I went to a “Texas BBQ” on the Upper West Side once. The entire staff were Pakistanis and other SW Asians.
But they were nice, and the food was good, so there you go.
| 94 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:50:19am |
re: #92 lawhawk
8 by 10 cell. 3 ounces of meat, 3 times a day. An hours of exercise. Fuck him.
| 95 |
garhighway Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:50:27am |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, I think you’re not understanding. If the Gubment takes 20K, why not next year take 30? Then 40. Then 50? Why should the gubment have the right to decide who my money goes to? It’s my money.
Because this is a democracy where the government is composed of people you picked to act on your behalf. It’s not “them” vs “us”. It’s all “us”.
| 96 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:51:21am |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, I think you’re not understanding. If the Gubment takes 20K, why not next year take 30? Then 40. Then 50? Why should the gubment have the right to decide who my money goes to? It’s my money.
“Your money” has zero value without a the stability that a government provides through law enforcement, public health etc. etc.
For proof of this statement, see e.g. Somalia.
Can’t stick around - have a great morning everyone!
| 97 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:51:50am |
re: #95 garhighway
Because this is a democracy where the government is composed of people you picked to act on your behalf. It’s not “them” vs “us”. It’s all “us”.
This a representative Republic. And no one has the right to my money.
| 98 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:52:00am |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, I think you’re not understanding. If the Gubment takes 20K, why not next year take 30? Then 40. Then 50? Why should the gubment have the right to decide who my money goes to? It’s my money.
Lets be clear here.
I didn’t say they should, I wanted to try to see the logic, that it would estroy the social fabric’.
I thinks Charles quote from the top says the opposite of what _RememberTonyC is saying.
But hey, I ain’t seen the movie, I’m reading it as if people are becoming so “I’m alright Jack, keep your hand off of my stack” (Thanks Pink Floyd)
And therefore becoming more callous, to the point of letting homes burn for $75 bucks. No?
| 99 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:52:01am |
re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
You seem like you’re arguing against all taxation, or all expenditure of that money ‘on’ other people.
I’m sure you’re not being that absolutist, but that’s what it’s appearing as right now.
| 100 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:54:07am |
re: #99 Obdicut
My point is that is it my place to put money earned. I’m no Robin Hood.
| 101 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:55:29am |
re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar
My point is that is it my place to put money earned. I’m no Robin Hood.
Wow. I fucked that up.
| 102 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:55:39am |
| 103 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:56:26am |
re: #100 Cannadian Club Akbar
My point is that is it my place to put money earned. I’m no Robin Hood.
Are you saying you don’t have an obligation to pay taxes?
| 104 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 6:58:16am |
re: #103 Obdicut
Are you saying you don’t have an obligation to pay taxes?
Not at all. I am saying the gubment shouldn’t take extra because they know where my money should go. I can determine where my extra cash should go.
| 105 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:00:25am |
re: #104 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not at all. I am saying the gubment shouldn’t take extra because they know where my money should go. I can determine where my extra cash should go.
China?
Really got to go now.
| 106 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:00:53am |
re: #104 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not at all. I am saying the gubment shouldn’t take extra because they know where my money should go. I can determine where my extra cash should go.
As I understand it, your govt doesn’t have any ‘extra’, so if they took more all they would be doing is paying for the things that its people have consumed.
If they had a surplus, your argument might hold more weight.
| 107 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:01:04am |
re: #104 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not at all. I am saying the gubment shouldn’t take extra because they know where my money should go. I can determine where my extra cash should go.
I’m sorry, what do you mean by ‘extra’?
| 108 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:01:25am |
| 109 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:01:57am |
Mornin’ kids…interesting little tid-bit I saw about the anti-masturbation, fucking on a bloody altar, not a witch, mice have human brains candidate from Delaware’s comments about the Chinese plot to take over America. Apparently she made those remarks in a primary debate against this guy:
Image: JanTing1.jpg
| 110 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:03:02am |
re: #107 Obdicut
I’m sorry, what do you mean by ‘extra’?
If I pay my bills and have an extra 20 bucks, I can give it to charity, or buy beer. Wanna guess my choice?
/har
| 111 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:05:40am |
re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar
I’m really still not following you. When you say the government shouldn’t take ‘extra’, you’re saying they shouldn’t take any disposable income? How else can taxation actually be applied?
| 112 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:06:05am |
re: #107 Obdicut
I’m sorry, what do you mean by ‘extra’?
Also, if I have extra money, why should Washington get it when I can keep it local?
| 113 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:07:00am |
re: #110 Cannadian Club Akbar
If I pay my bills and have an extra 20 bucks, I can give it to charity, or buy beer. Wanna guess my choice?
/har
You don’t think your country should meet its bills?
If you as Americans spend more than you earn, shouldn’ t you have to do some ‘belt tightening’, wouldn’t that mean either giving up stuff, or contributing more money?
I thought fiscal responsibility was something the right professes?
| 114 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:08:09am |
re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar
Also, if I have extra money, why should Washington get it when I can keep it local?
I am failing to see how you’re not simply arguing against paying any federal taxes whatsoever. Can you explain that to me?
| 115 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:10:20am |
re: #113 ozbloke
You don’t think your country should meet its bills?
If you as Americans spend more than you earn, shouldn’ t you have to do some ‘belt tightening’, wouldn’t that mean either giving up stuff, or contributing more money?
I thought fiscal responsibility was something the right professes?
Yes, it’s called SPENDING LESS, which is a economic tactic that neither the left nor the right ever considers. That’s what I do when I tighten my belt…. don’t you?
| 116 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:12:41am |
re: #115 Walter L. Newton
Yes, it’s called SPENDING LESS, which is a economic tactic that neither the left nor the right ever considers. That’s what I do when I tighten my belt… don’t you?
No, if I need to tighten the belt, I get a punch and make a new hole.
How are you Walter, I hope your doing fine today.
| 117 |
sagehen Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:15:26am |
re: #93 garhighway
I went to a “Texas BBQ” on the Upper West Side once. The entire staff were Pakistanis and other SW Asians.
But they were nice, and the food was good, so there you go.
Was it Dallas BBQ on 72nd?
| 118 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:15:40am |
re: #115 Walter L. Newton
Yes, it’s called SPENDING LESS, which is a economic tactic that neither the left nor the right ever considers. That’s what I do when I tighten my belt… don’t you?
But seriously, I understand the left and right do it.
My point is that as a country you do spend more than you earn.
Do you not think that has to be paid for, and that money must come from its (Americas) people?
That would be the responsible thing to do.
And my view is that it means everyone should contribute.
| 119 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:17:38am |
re: #118 ozbloke
But seriously, I understand the left and right do it.
My point is that as a country you do spend more than you earn.
Do you not think that has to be paid for, and that money must come from its (Americas) people?That would be the responsible thing to do.
And my view is that it means everyone should contribute.
The alternative is to invade and loot someone else’s country.
| 120 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:18:07am |
re: #119 oaktree
The alternative is to invade and loot someone else’s country.
Hey, its worked before :)
| 121 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:18:30am |
re: #119 oaktree
The alternative is to invade and loot someone else’s country.
Oh, can we rape and pillage too?
| 122 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:19:19am |
| 123 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:19:32am |
| 124 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:20:01am |
re: #118 ozbloke
But seriously, I understand the left and right do it.
My point is that as a country you do spend more than you earn.
Do you not think that has to be paid for, and that money must come from its (Americas) people?That would be the responsible thing to do.
And my view is that it means everyone should contribute.
Well, then, if all Americans are contributing and we’re spending more than we give to the government, the first thing to go should be foreign aid. Let’s get our own domestic house in order; then decide who gets how much of our money.
| 125 |
sagehen Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:20:12am |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
This a representative Republic. And no one has the right to my money.
Do you keep “your money” in gold coins under your mattress? Or does the government make sure your bank deposits will still exist even if the bankers are stupid and the government guaranees those little green pieces of paper. Does the government provide protection so you don’t have to live behind a 12-foot wall topped with razor-wire and patrolled by armed guards you had to hire? Did the government pave your route from point A to point B, does the government provide authorities/procedures to find justice when another business deals unfairly with your business? Does the government keep there from being hordes of desperate starving homeless people who’d have nothing to lose attacking your home en masse?
| 126 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:20:22am |
re: #122 darthstar
I like pillaging.
Double on the rape.
// (Monty Python reference for the sensitive ones)
| 128 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:20:48am |
Sorry, got booted. Not sure what the problem is.
| 129 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:21:05am |
| 130 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:21:39am |
re: #128 Cannadian Club Akbar
Sorry, got booted. Not sure what the problem is.
Teh intertubz hate you.
| 131 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:22:21am |
re: #124 reine.de.tout
Foreign aid is an absolutely tiny part of the budget— less than 1%. We give less, as a percentage of our budget, than many other countries. And foreign aid is often cheaper than military intervention. The Marshall Plan, a giant foreign aid package, was one of the smartest and best things that the US ever did. It gave us a stable Western Europe— not to mention huge markets for US goods.
| 132 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:22:59am |
re: #124 reine.de.tout
Well, then, if all Americans are contributing and we’re spending more than we give to the government, the first thing to go should be foreign aid. Let’s get our own domestic house in order; then decide who gets how much of our money.
As a nation, that is well within your right I would say.
I am talking about American’s being fiscally responsible, pay your bills.
If you share the great countries wealth, then expect to pay what it takes to keep it a float.
| 133 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:23:18am |
re: #125 sagehen
You are missing the point. I pay taxes. The gubment doesn’t have the right to any more then needed. And as far as protecting myself, I’m good.
| 134 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:23:47am |
re: #128 Cannadian Club Akbar
Sorry, got booted. Not sure what the problem is.
Have you paid your taxes?
:)
| 135 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:23:51am |
re: #127 Obdicut
Have you ever noticed that LGF’s truncate repeated letters to three max feature makes it impossible to accurately quote the immigrant song?
“Aaaaaaaaaaaaa-ah!” (12 ‘a’s in the first half there)
| 136 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:24:24am |
re: #131 Obdicut
Hey, I tried to respond to you. That’s when I got booted.
| 137 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:24:35am |
re: #131 Obdicut
Foreign aid is an absolutely tiny part of the budget— less than 1%. We give less, as a percentage of our budget, than many other countries. And foreign aid is often cheaper than military intervention. The Marshall Plan, a giant foreign aid package, was one of the smartest and best things that the US ever did. It gave us a stable Western Europe— not to mention huge markets for US goods.
[Link: masbury.wordpress.com…]
Oh, I don’t disagree with you.
But the conversation is about what should be done with OUR money.
But why aren’t we taking care of our OWN poor people FIRST, with that money?
| 138 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:25:36am |
| 139 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:26:52am |
You people are STILL here?
Don’t you have things to do !?!?!?
| 140 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:27:41am |
re: #125 sagehen
I have also owned gold. And yes, I used Goldline.
| 141 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:28:04am |
re: #139 sattv4u2
You people are STILL here?
Don’t you have things to do !?!?!?
Things to do today:
1. Be snarky on the internet.
2. Bathe
3. Dress
Okay, one out of three ain’t bad.
| 142 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:28:10am |
re: #137 reine.de.tout
Well, sure, we can. But it’s less than 1% of the budget. We would save a very tiny amount, and, my point is, we might have to then spend more than that amount in military intervention to protect US assets overseas. A lot of that money goes to Israel, Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
I just don’t get why such a tiny amount of our budget comes up at all. If we looked at it another way, you could argue for large cuts in the defense budget on the grounds that they amount to foreign aid; do we need to protect South Korea from North Korea? Or Japan from China? Or Taiwan from China?
| 143 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:28:22am |
re: #139 sattv4u2
You people are STILL here?
Don’t you have things to do !?!?!?
You obviously don’t. At work huh?
| 144 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:28:33am |
At least 12 al Qaeda suspects arrested around Europe in a plot to attack targets in France.
Three of the men allegedly linked to man caught with bomb-making kit in Naples; arrests come as US, France, other European nations have stepped up terrorism alert vigilance.
French authorities arrested twelve men on Tuesday morning on suspicion of involvement with al-Qaida and terror plots, news agencies reported.AFP reported a police source as saying the men were detained in the southern French cities of Marseille and Bordeaux. According to an official, police seized “some weapons, including a Kalashnikov and a pump-action shotgun, as well as ammunition.”
Also on Tuesday, French police arrested three men said to be linked to a man of Algerian origin taken into custody by Italian police in Naples on Saturday, who is due to be extradited to France. Police reportedly found the phone numbers for the three men in the mobile phone of the Algerian man.
The man, 28, had been under a European arrest warrant when he was caught, allegedly with a bomb-making kit.
| 145 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:28:45am |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hey, I tried to respond to you. That’s when I got booted.
Well, give it another shot.
| 146 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:28:59am |
re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar
You obviously don’t. At work huh?
Yup ,,
My boss told me I only have to work half a day today
12 hours!
| 147 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:30:53am |
re: #114 Obdicut
I am failing to see how you’re not simply arguing against paying any federal taxes whatsoever. Can you explain that to me?
I pay my taxes. If Washington needs extra cash they can take it from Social Security. Oh, wait…
| 148 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:31:01am |
re: #137 reine.de.tout
Oh, I don’t disagree with you.
But the conversation is about what should be done with OUR money.
But why aren’t we taking care of our OWN poor people FIRST, with that money?
OK, I’ve got errands to run.
I’ve got zero problem with foreign aid, before someone accuses me of that, let me just put that out there, right now.
And I have zero problem paying taxes, again, before I’m accused of that, let me put it out there.
But this idea that the money we individually earn belongs to the GOVERNMENT before it belongs to us is an odd one. At the end of each year, I own X amount of money in tax, and I pay it. During the year, I have money withheld. Someone mentioned in another thread that the withholding is a “loan” to the government. No, it’s not. That money is for NEXT YEAR’s budget, the government cannot spend it until it’s due, which is at the END of the year.
re: #142 Obdicut
Well, sure, we can. But it’s less than 1% of the budget. We would save a very tiny amount, and, my point is, we might have to then spend more than that amount in military intervention to protect US assets overseas. A lot of that money goes to Israel, Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
I just don’t get why such a tiny amount of our budget comes up at all. If we looked at it another way, you could argue for large cuts in the defense budget on the grounds that they amount to foreign aid; do we need to protect South Korea from North Korea? Or Japan from China? Or Taiwan from China?
I’m not arguing against foreign aid.
I was stunned to see you questioning CCA about his “extra” money, as if he’s not entitled to have extra money to spend as HE sees fit. Not as our government sees fit; he pays his taxes, and allows the government to determine how to spend that money. Why the questions about his “extra” money, as if he has no right to it?
| 150 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:31:21am |
re: #146 sattv4u2
Yup ,,
My boss told me I only have to work half a day today12 hours!
That’s just lazy.
| 151 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:31:51am |
re: #147 Cannadian Club Akbar
I pay my taxes. If Washington needs extra cash they can take it from Social Security. Oh, wait…
I’m really not understanding your argument at all. Are you saying tax rates should never, ever be raised again from their current (historically very low) position, on anyone, no matter what?
| 152 |
BishopX Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:32:19am |
re: #137 reine.de.tout
It may sound weird, but foreign aid is often good for America. When the US government sends food aid, they send American wheat, which they bought from American farmers. It’s the US government paying us farmers to feed foreign nationals. Likewise, US military aid is often American made material paid for by the government and used by a foreign power.
The vast majority of foreign aid is basically domestic stimulus, it creates an artificial export market.
| 153 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:33:43am |
re: #148 reine.de.tout
But this idea that the money we individually earn belongs to the GOVERNMENT before it belongs to us is an odd one.
Nobody has said that.
I was stunned to see you questioning CCA about his “extra” money, as if he’s not entitled to have extra money to spend as HE sees fit. Not as our government sees fit; he pays his taxes, and allows the government to determine how to spend that money. Why the questions about his “extra” money, as if he has no right to it?
That’s not what I’m doing. That’s what you’re reading into it. And I’m really getting tired of being accused that I don’t want people to have any extra money. It’s a bullshit accusation.
I have no idea what this ‘extra’ money is. I was asking questions the entire time because I had no clue— nor do I still— what he is actually saying. I have no idea why me asking questions to try to figure something out is somehow a bad thing.
| 154 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:34:24am |
re: #151 Obdicut
OK. I think we got crossed up. I’m saying the gubment doesn’t know how to spend money. And them taking more leads to them… wait for it…taking more.
| 155 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:35:26am |
re: #152 BishopX
It may sound weird, but foreign aid is often good for America. When the US government sends food aid, they send American wheat, which they bought from American farmers. It’s the US government paying us farmers to feed foreign nationals. Likewise, US military aid is often American made material paid for by the government and used by a foreign power.
The vast majority of foreign aid is basically domestic stimulus, it creates an artificial export market.
This is true, they call it aid, but really, its just what they couldn’t sell in America.
I heard you sent 500,000 4 fingered gloves in aid to some country once, I read it on the inteweeb.
I’ll google it for you
///
| 156 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:35:32am |
re: #151 Obdicut
I’m really not understanding your argument at all. Are you saying tax rates should never, ever be raised again from their current (historically very low) position, on anyone, no matter what?
I take it that you work
I also hope you have a personal budget that you live within
If you want to spend more than your budget allows can you just go to your neighbor and tell him to give you money? The gov’t can
Yes, I know you can go get a loan to get “extra” money, but thats a private contract between you and the lending agency, not you going and (by the power of gov’t) forcing someone to give you more
NOW ,, before you go off on one of you word parsing crusades, NOBODY has said there should be NO taxes, NO gov’t services and NEVER fluctuations in the tax rates
| 157 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:36:22am |
re: #153 Obdicut
If I go to the store and have an extra $20 in my pocket, I can find a better use for it then the gubment.
| 158 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:36:24am |
Ouch…debate smackdown in CT. McMahon tries a clothesline on Blumenthal, and he turns it around, doing a suplex off the top turnbuckle into a full nelson.
McMahon: “In the 28 years WWE has been in Connecticut, it has never been investigated or fined in relation to its contractors. And the only time it got investigated was just as this campaign got going.”Blumenthal: “As you well know, my jurisdiction is exclusively civil. The allegations against WWE seem to be criminal in nature. So it’s no coincidence that my investigation has not covered them. I have no investigation, have not done an investigation, because allegations about independent contractors are investigated by the Department of Labor and the Department of Revenue Services. And I’d have no knowledge of that investigation. It’s being conducted by the state.”
McMahon: I have no comment.
| 159 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:36:59am |
re: #157 Cannadian Club Akbar
If I go to the store and have an extra $20 in my pocket, I can find a better use for it then the gubment.
btw,,, where’s that $20 you owe me!
| 160 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:37:13am |
re: #157 Cannadian Club Akbar
If I go to the store and have an extra $20 in my pocket, I can find a better use for it then the gubment.
At least until Marijuana is legalized.
| 161 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:37:31am |
re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar
OK. I think we got crossed up. I’m saying the gubment doesn’t know how to spend money. And them taking more leads to them… wait for it…taking more.
The government does spend money wisely in some ways, and ill in others. So does the private market. Given that humans are involved, it’s not exactly surprising.
For example, money spend on research at government labs is an incredibly good investment, not just for the nation but for private industry. The money spent on our state colleges is an incredibly good investment for the nation, as it gives employers a robust and well-educated labor pool to use. There are many, many, many ways that the government spends money well. Is it ever optimal? No. Are there many things the government spends money on that is wasteful? Yes.
But if them taking more led to them taking more, tax rates would never go down. And they have. They have gone down significantly, and we are currently at a very low rate of taxation. So I’m sorry, but the ‘taking more leads to taking more’ argument seems demonstrably false.
| 162 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:37:38am |
| 163 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:37:38am |
re: #153 Obdicut
Nobody has said that.
That’s not what I’m doing. That’s what you’re reading into it. And I’m really getting tired of being accused that I don’t want people to have any extra money. It’s a bullshit accusation.
I have no idea what this ‘extra’ money is. I was asking questions the entire time because I had no clue— nor do I still— what he is actually saying. I have no idea why me asking questions to try to figure something out is somehow a bad thing.
When did CCA say he didn’t think he should pay taxes on income?
| 164 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:38:25am |
re: #163 Walter L. Newton
When did CCA say he didn’t think he should pay taxes on income?
CCA meant to say it
We all know that !!
/
| 165 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:38:55am |
re: #163 Walter L. Newton
When did CCA say he didn’t think he should pay taxes on income?
Where did I say that he did, Walter?
| 166 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:38:59am |
| 167 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:39:45am |
re: #144 lawhawk
Do we know how many people were participating in this plot? Seems like a pretty big operation.
| 168 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:39:48am |
re: #165 Obdicut
Where did I say that he did, Walter?
#114
“I am failing to see how you’re not simply arguing against paying any federal taxes whatsoever. Can you explain that to me?”
Talk about reading something into something
| 169 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:40:29am |
re: #161 Obdicut
OK. The gubment doesn’t need to tell me they need my money when I could use it to raise money for a local charity at a bake sale. See?
| 170 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:40:47am |
re: #168 Walter L. Newton
That isn’t saying that he did, Walter. That’s me saying that I’m failing to understand how his argument doesn’t say that, after I’ve said that I’m sure he’s not saying that.
| 171 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:41:07am |
re: #169 Cannadian Club Akbar
OK. The gubment doesn’t need to tell me they need my money when I could use it to raise money for a local charity at a bake sale. See?
get me some cupcakes ,, OH ,, OH ,, and some brownies!!
| 172 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:41:53am |
re: #171 sattv4u2
get me some cupcakes ,, OH ,, OH ,, and some brownies!!
Aren’t you a bit old for Brownies?
| 173 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:41:59am |
re: #170 Obdicut
That isn’t saying that he did, Walter. That’s me saying that I’m failing to understand how his argument doesn’t say that, after I’ve said that I’m sure he’s not saying that.
So you’re not saying that he said that
You’re just saying that he should be saying that form what he said!
got it~!
| 174 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:42:34am |
re: #172 Cannadian Club Akbar
Aren’t you a bit old for Brownies?
Got kicked out of the boy scouts for eating a,,, ummm,,, nevahmind!!
| 175 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:42:37am |
| 176 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:42:45am |
re: #169 Cannadian Club Akbar
OK. The gubment doesn’t need to tell me they need my money when I could use it to raise money for a local charity at a bake sale. See?
No, I really don’t. Let me ask a couple of questions that might help:
1. By ‘Tell me they need my money”, do you mean “raise taxes”, or “charge fees for services”, or what?
2. Are you arguing just that money intended for charity should be exempt from taxation (or whatever), or all income?
I’m having a huge amount of difficulty understanding what you actually mean. I don’t think more metaphors and analogies are going to help. Straight-forward explanation would probably be better.
| 177 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:43:26am |
re: #171 sattv4u2
get me some cupcakes ,, OH ,, OH ,, and some brownies!!
I bought a cookie at Hardly Strictly this weekend. Only ate about half of it. Was totally baked for about three hours. Note: when an attractive young wookie giggles and says, “Yes, very.” to the question “are these cookies very strong?” it’s probably best not to eat one.
| 178 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:43:35am |
re: #170 Obdicut
That isn’t saying that he did, Walter. That’s me saying that I’m failing to understand how his argument doesn’t say that, after I’ve said that I’m sure he’s not saying that.
If you don’t understand how his argument is anything but saying he’s against paying taxes is the same as saying he’s against paying taxes. You’re clear as a bell… don’t try to lie your way out of it.
| 180 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:44:21am |
re: #178 Walter L. Newton
If you don’t understand how his argument is anything but saying he’s against paying taxes is the same as saying he’s against paying taxes. You’re clear as a bell… don’t try to lie your way out of it.
uh oh ,, NOW you’ve done it!
| 181 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:45:01am |
re: #177 darthstar
I bought a cookie at Hardly Strictly this weekend. Only ate about half of it. Was totally baked for about three hours. Note: when an attractive young wookie giggles and says, “Yes, very.” to the question “are these cookies very strong?” it’s probably best not to eat one.
Que “Hardly Strictly”?!?!
((other than that ,, good story!!)
| 182 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:45:11am |
re: #178 Walter L. Newton
I’m not lying in the least, Walter. I’m saying that I can’t understand a lot of the terms that he’s using, or the metaphorical analogies that he’s making.
You can’t show any lie on my part, Walter, because I haven’t lied.
| 183 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:45:14am |
re: #176 Obdicut
K. In Florida we don’t have a state tax, but we do have “fees”, which is fine. And yes, money for charity should be able to be backed off of taxable income. But the President stopped that.
| 184 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:46:42am |
re: #175 prairiefire
Sarah Silverman kicks ass. Go, Girl.
Sarah Silverman on teen gay suicide:
[Video]
NSFW
| 185 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:47:41am |
re: #182 Obdicut
I’m not lying in the least, Walter. I’m saying that I can’t understand a lot of the terms that he’s using, or the metaphorical analogies that he’s making.
You can’t show any lie on my part, Walter, because I haven’t lied.
You understand “terms” quite well. Twisting and turning what you said isn’t going to chance what you said. You claimed CCA was against paying ANY FEDERAL TAXES… Your words… “I am failing to see how you’re not simply arguing against paying any federal taxes whatsoever. Can you explain that to me?”
I’m failing to see how that’s not clear to you?
| 186 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:47:53am |
re: #109 darthstar
Mornin’ kids…interesting little tid-bit I saw about the anti-masturbation, fucking on a bloody altar, not a witch, mice have human brains candidate from Delaware’s comments about the Chinese plot to take over America. Apparently she made those remarks in a primary debate against this guy:
Image: JanTing1.jpg
He looks like a commie/
| 187 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:47:56am |
re: #184 prairiefire
NSFW
Well now you tell me!! This isn’t gonna go over well at the porno theater I work at!!
//
| 188 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:48:00am |
re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar
K. In Florida we don’t have a state tax, but we do have “fees”, which is fine. And yes, money for charity should be able to be backed off of taxable income. But the President stopped that.
Okay. You didn’t actually answer the first question. Can you answer it?
1. By ‘Tell me they need my money”, do you mean “raise taxes”, or “charge fees for services”, or what?
And yes, money for charity should be able to be backed off of taxable income. But the President stopped that.
I’m sorry, but you’ve been misinformed. You an definitely still deduct charitable donations from your taxable income. Who told you otherwise?
“You may deduct charitable contributions of money or property made to qualified organizations if you itemize your deductions.” (IRS Publication 78)
It’s on Schedule A, Form 1040.
| 189 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:48:37am |
re: #181 sattv4u2
Que “Hardly Strictly”?!?!
((other than that ,, good story!!)
Hardly Strictly Bluegrass - about 600,000 people went to Golden Gate park over the weekend…place was packed. Got to see Peter Rowan, Moonalice, the Felice Brothers, Railroad Earth, Yonder Mountain String Band, Elvis Costello, Umphrey’s McGee, Patti Smith, and Emmylou Harris…and there were a lot of bands I didn’t get to see.
| 190 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:49:00am |
re: #189 darthstar
Hardly Strictly Bluegrass - about 600,000 people went to Golden Gate park over the weekend…place was packed. Got to see Peter Rowan, Moonalice, the Felice Brothers, Railroad Earth, Yonder Mountain String Band, Elvis Costello, Umphrey’s McGee, Patti Smith, and Emmylou Harris…and there were a lot of bands I didn’t get to see.
Got it,, thanks ,, sounds like a great take
| 191 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:49:49am |
re: #186 RogueOne
He looks like a commie/
I just think it’s great that O’Donnell pulled a “Chinese conspiracy to take over the US” out of her ass in a debate against a Chinese-American - who actually then beat her in the primary.
| 192 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:49:58am |
re: #185 Walter L. Newton
Why are you continuing to call a question a claim, Walter?
My very first statement to CCA stated very clearly that I doesn’t think that’s his argument. I’m trying to figure out what he is saying, since I know he isn’t saying he’s against paying any taxes.
| 193 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:50:06am |
| 194 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:51:21am |
re: #188 Obdicut
They want more money to keep their power. To push pork spending.
The link you sent was for giving money to Haiti.
| 195 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:51:58am |
re: #167 Killgore Trout
I’m not sure, but depending on how you read the numbers, we’re looking at least at 13 (9 arrested in one sweep in France, 1 arrested in Italy, 3 arrested in France in connection with the Italy arrest).
Intel was gathered from another captured terrorist in Afghanistan.
Western intelligence officials say they learned about the potential attacks after Ahmed Sidiqi, a German citizen of Afghan descent, was arrested in Afghanistan in July and taken to the U.S. air base at Bagram for questioning. He has not been charged, and intelligence sources in Germany said he was cooperating with the investigation.According to German intelligence officials, Sidiqi and 10 others left Hamburg in 2009 for the tribal areas of Pakistan — where most of the group joined a jihadist group fighting U.S. and coalition forces across the border in Afghanistan.
Sidiqi told American interrogators that at least one member of his travel group was to be a “foot soldier” in the plot, with other members of the group helping to plan the attacks, a European counterterrorism official told CNN.
Sidigi’s sister says that he had attended the Hamburg Germany mosque where 9/11 collaborators attended. Other relatives are in denial, claiming that Sidiqi would not get himself involved in terror ops, but his actions apparently betray that notion.
| 196 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:52:26am |
re: #192 Obdicut
Why are you continuing to call a question a claim, Walter?
My very first statement to CCA stated very clearly that I doesn’t think that’s his argument. I’m trying to figure out what he is saying, since I know he isn’t saying he’s against paying any taxes.
If you KNOW THAT HE ISN”T AGAINST PAYING ANY TAXES, then why would you suggest “I am failing to see how you’re not simply arguing against paying any federal taxes whatsoever. Can you explain that to me?”
What part of “failing to see” “simply” and “against paying any federal taxes” is not a claim?
| 197 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:52:29am |
re: #193 Killgore Trout
National Review Writers Defend County Whose Subscription-Only Firefighters Watched Home Burn Down
Ayn Rand would be so proud.
| 198 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:53:11am |
re: #193 Killgore Trout
Don’t know if you were here yesterday when I asked, but
I wonder if the homeowners insurance company will get involved and which side they will come down on
A),,, against the firefighters and the county policy (ins. company would have to pay out as lot less if part if not most of the house was saved)
B) ,, against the homeowner for not practicing due diligence by previously paying the $75
| 199 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:54:22am |
re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar
They want more money to keep their power. To push pork spending.
I’m sorry, but it would really be a lot more useful for me to be able to understand your argument if you actually explain what you man.
So can you answer?
By ‘Tell me they need my money”, do you mean “raise taxes”, or “charge fees for services”, or what?
No, the link I sent you was the full form 1040. At the top was information about charitable giving as it applied to Haiti in particular. Scroll down one page, and you’ll see lines 16-19 are charitable giving.
Again: Who told you that the President had ended charitable contributions being tax-deductible? It’s completely false.
| 200 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:54:24am |
O’Donnell makes McKinney look sane.
Lol, good going GOP!
| 201 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:54:48am |
re: #191 darthstar
I just think it’s great that O’Donnell pulled a “Chinese conspiracy to take over the US” out of her ass in a debate against a Chinese-American - who actually then beat her in the primary.
So she was right, he was conspiring to infiltrate the government
| 202 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:55:33am |
re: #201 RogueOne
So she was right, he was conspiring to infiltrate the government
Well, at least Joe Biden saved us from that.
| 203 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:55:44am |
re: #196 Walter L. Newton
What part of “failing to see” “simply” and “against paying any federal taxes” is not a claim?
The part where it’s a question, Walter.
| 204 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:55:51am |
re: #200 Varek Raith
O’Donnell makes McKinney look sane.
Lol, good going GOP!
Sorry ,,but as bad as O’Donnell is, was or could be,, she can’t hold a candle to Cynthia!
| 205 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:55:57am |
re: #199 Obdicut
I just looked at the IRS website. You are correct. You just need better record keeping. My bad on that point.
| 206 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:56:21am |
re: #198 sattv4u2
Don’t know if you were here yesterday when I asked, but
I wonder if the homeowners insurance company will get involved and which side they will come down on
A),,, against the firefighters and the county policy (ins. company would have to pay out as lot less if part if not most of the house was saved)
B) ,, against the homeowner for not practicing due diligence by previously paying the $75
That’s a good question. I don’t know.
| 207 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:56:35am |
re: #205 Cannadian Club Akbar
I just looked at the IRS website. You are correct. You just need better record keeping. My bad on that point.
Okay. So why were you under the impression that “The President” had ended that? Where did you get that from?
| 208 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:56:37am |
re: #203 Obdicut
The part where it’s a question, Walter.
Haven’t convinced me… sorry. Have a good day.
| 209 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:56:48am |
re: #204 sattv4u2
Sorry ,,but as bad as O’Donnell is, was or could be,, she can’t hold a candle to Cynthia!
Oh, O’Donnell’s worse.
She wouldn’t even lie to Nazis to save Jews hiding in her house.
| 210 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:56:55am |
re: #204 sattv4u2
Sorry ,,but as bad as O’Donnell is, was or could be,, she can’t hold a candle to Cynthia!
We need to pitch in and get her some bug eyes.
| 211 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:58:15am |
re: #207 Obdicut
Okay. So why were you under the impression that “The President” had ended that? Where did you get that from?
He did bring it up after the inauguration. I thought it passed.
| 212 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:58:20am |
re: #206 Killgore Trout
That’s a good question. I don’t know.
It will be interesting
I’m sure he had a homeowners policy (the only way he wouldn’t is if he owned it outright ,, and even then, if he didn’t he’s foolish)
If I were an insurance exec about to pay off on a totaled house, I would look long and hard at both options before I wrote the check
| 213 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:58:36am |
re: #198 sattv4u2
The insurance company will likely not pay out - or will do so in a reduced fashion because the homeowner refused to provide proper fire mitigation / damage reduction actions by refusing to pay for fire fighting services.
The fire company should be sued by the neighbors for failing to fight the fire - and the neighbor would likely prevail because the fire company was derlict in its obligations to fight the fire on behalf of the neighbor. An uncontrolled fire could reasonably be expected to spread beyond the confines of the location where the fire started - and by not extinguishing the fire at the outset, it put neighboring properties in danger of being damaged by the fires.
It is unbelievably bad policy to not fight fires simply because of refusal to pay a fee.
If the fire company needs compensation, they could obtain it based on services rendered after the fire is extinguished.
More to the point, this kind of policy goes against public safety and has largely been abandoned around the country because of the problems it causes (like extortion and abuse of discretion, etc.).
| 214 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:58:36am |
Stupid criminal of the day…
Man denies crack in buttocks is his
BRADENTON, Fla. — When sheriff’s deputies allegedly discovered bags of marijuana and cocaine between a man’s buttocks, they said he gave a quick explanation. Manatee County deputies said Raymond Stanley Roberts told them “The white stuff is not mine, but the weed is.”
Deputies stopped the 25-year-old Wednesday in Bradenton for speeding. Officers said they smelled marijuana and searched him. That’s when they allegedly found a bag of marijuana between Roberts’ buttocks.
Officers then discovered another bag in there; the report said it contained 27 pieces of rock cocaine, also known as crack.
| 215 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:58:47am |
re: #208 Walter L. Newton
Convinced you of what, Walter? There’s nothing to convince.
I am saying that if you define ‘extra’ money as ‘money after bills have been paid’, then saying that the government shouldn’t take any ‘extra’ money means that no taxes could possibly be collected; all money would be either for bills, or ‘extra’.
If ‘extra’ money is just money after taxes have been paid, then it seems to be completely irrelevant to the question of paying taxes.
| 216 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:59:34am |
re: #193 Killgore Trout
National Review Writers Defend County Whose Subscription-Only Firefighters Watched Home Burn Down
re: #197 JasonA
Ayn Rand would be so proud.
yet again more twisting of the story. This is far from a Ayn Rand moment. Its crappy government, not crappy enterprise.
| 217 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 7:59:58am |
re: #214 NJDhockeyfan
Stupid criminal of the day…
I posted this yesterday. Wanna guess where I live?
| 218 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:00:15am |
| 219 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:00:19am |
re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar
I posted this yesterday. Wanna guess where I live?
Up that mans butt !?!?!?!
//
| 220 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:00:38am |
re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar
I posted this yesterday. Wanna guess where I live?
Oh yeah, friend of yours?
//
| 221 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:01:26am |
re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar
He did bring it up after the inauguration. I thought it passed.
Again, you’re incorrect. He proposed limitations on charitable giving benefits for people making over $250,000 only. He never proposed ending tax write-offs for charitable giving completely, at all, in any way. The only change proposed was a reduction in the benefit for those making over $250,000. The wisdom of that may be debatable, but you are continuing to state a false accusation.
And again, to help me understand what you were saying earlier:
By ‘Tell me they need my money”, do you mean “raise taxes”, or “charge fees for services”, or what?
| 222 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:01:41am |
My radio just said the Time Square bomber got life.
| 223 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:01:43am |
re: #198 sattv4u2
Don’t know if you were here yesterday when I asked, but
I wonder if the homeowners insurance company will get involved and which side they will come down on
A),,, against the firefighters and the county policy (ins. company would have to pay out as lot less if part if not most of the house was saved)
B) ,, against the homeowner for not practicing due diligence by previously paying the $75
If they have insurance it will come down in favor of the homeowner, they have a contract that says “if your house burns down, we’ll pay for it”. They didn’t contract with the city for fire protection therefore their house burned down.
Something else no one considered yesterday, the cost of insurance to the FD. If they had responded to a fire they weren’t contracted to handle and someone got hurt then who says their insurance company would be obligated to take care of the firefighter? Earlier this year a volunteeer FD in Indiana rescued a man who had fallen in a well and they were charged $1500 for their trouble by OSHA.
| 224 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:03:16am |
How is fighting fires NOT part of the public good?
How is that NOT a responsibility of the government?
| 225 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:03:18am |
re: #221 Obdicut
I pay my taxes. My gubment has no right to extra for pet projects.
| 226 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:03:37am |
re: #199 Obdicut
The rules relating to charitable donations have been strengthened in relation to car donations and some other items that have been the source of abuse and fraud in the past. Record keeping is a big part of the changes.
Tips for Haiti donations.
| 227 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:03:39am |
re: #223 RogueOne
If they have insurance it will come down in favor of the homeowner, they have a contract that says “if your house burns down, we’ll pay for it”. They didn’t contract with the city for fire protection therefore their house burned down.
Something else no one considered yesterday, the cost of insurance to the FD. If they had responded to a fire they weren’t contracted to handle and someone got hurt then who says their insurance company would be obligated to take care of the firefighter? Earlier this year a volunteeer FD in Indiana rescued a man who had fallen in a well and they were charged $1500 for their trouble by OSHA.
Yes, but it could be argued that the homeowner didn’t practice due diligence to protect the house (by not paying the fee)
I doubt an insurance company would pay off on a home that got blown up because you had a meth lab in the basement
| 228 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:03:54am |
re: #216 St. Louisville Cards
re: #197 JasonA
yet again more twisting of the story. This is far from a Ayn Rand moment. Its crappy government, not crappy enterprise.
The government is us. If we choose crappy government by living in townships with low taxes and no services, then obviously that’s what we get.
I still don’t understand why people are so happy the house burned down. If there had been a kid in one of the bedrooms, would they still be happy? If not, why not?
| 229 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:04:29am |
re: #225 Cannadian Club Akbar
I pay my taxes. My gubment has no right to extra for pet projects.
That’s what pissed me off about the Iraq invasion too.
| 230 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:04:39am |
re: #225 Cannadian Club Akbar
Pet projects as defined by who?
That’s the problem with all manner of projects. What one person considers pork can be considered a vital project to another.
| 231 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:05:21am |
re: #224 Varek Raith
How is fighting fires NOT part of the public good?
How is that NOT a responsibility of the government?
It is, the problem is this family lived outside the boundary of the closest local government. They gambled and lost. I’m finding it odd that so many people want to blame the FD and not the family. Do we blame the lottery when people spend their entire paychecks trying to win Powerball?
| 232 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:05:59am |
re: #230 lawhawk
Pet projects as defined by who?
That’s the problem with all manner of projects. What one person considers pork can be considered a vital project to another.
OK. Like Murtha’s airstrip in Pennsylvania? Good example?
| 233 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:06:39am |
re: #227 sattv4u2
Yes, but it could be argued that the homeowner didn’t practice due diligence to protect the house (by not paying the fee)
I doubt an insurance company would pay off on a home that got blown up because you had a meth lab in the basement
..but the meth lab would be illegal and a violation of their policy in a variety of ways. Unless their insurance plan said they had to contract with the city FD there isn’t much they can do about it.
| 234 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:06:42am |
re: #225 Cannadian Club Akbar
I pay my taxes. My gubment has no right to extra for pet projects.
Again, really, you’re not actually making yourself clear. By ‘pet projects’, do you mean ‘for anything you don’t personally approve of’?
And what ‘extra’ is the government attempting to get beyond taxes?
| 235 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:06:51am |
re: #231 RogueOne
The lotto/lottery is just a tax on the poor.
| 236 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:07:13am |
Study to measure camels’ effect on climate change
The Northern Territory Government is funding a university study to measure the impact of Australia’s wild camel population on climate change.
Charles Darwin University has been funded for the year-long study to monitor the impact of the wild camel herd on the carbon cycle.
It is estimated that more than one million camels are roaming the country’s arid regions.
The study will monitor carbon emissions and sequestration, in particular, looking at camel flatulence and the greenhouse gas effect created by decomposing carcasses.
Aha, so it’s not humans or SUV’s creating global warming, it’s camels!
| 237 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:08:04am |
re: #231 RogueOne
They gambled and lost.
A big part of any government’s role is defining what is an acceptable level of “gambling”. In the obvious case, this is why governments have pretty much always regulated actual betting. It is also why government gets involved with healthcare, and with the regulation of all kinds of industries (e.g., seat belts).
| 239 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:08:13am |
re: #232 Cannadian Club Akbar
OK. Like Murtha’s airstrip in Pennsylvania? Good example?
That was a vital project for Jack Murtha!
| 241 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:08:27am |
| 242 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:09:03am |
re: #231 RogueOne
I’m finding it odd that so many people want to blame the FD and not the family.
I’m not really interested in assigning blame. I’m more interested in pointing out the rank, stupid foolishness of watching a house burn, a fire spread, and fighting it, in the end— the same fire— only after it had spread to a neighbor’s house.
They had already spent money in responding to the fire. Explain to me, please, what costs they saved themselves in standing around watching it burn for awhile before eventually fighting it.
Do we blame the lottery when people spend their entire paychecks trying to win Powerball?
Well, yeah, I think people who take advantage of the fact most people have no comprehension of statistics are assholes.
| 243 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:09:16am |
re: #193 Killgore Trout
National Review Writers Defend County Whose Subscription-Only Firefighters Watched Home Burn Down
Answer this, those who have no problems with what the county did in allowing a house to burn to the ground.
I have no problem with this kind of opt-in government in principle — especially in rural areas where individual need for government services and available infrastructure vary so widely. But forget the politics: what moral theory allows these firefighters (admittedly acting under orders) to watch this house burn to the ground when 1) they have already responded to the scene; 2) they have the means to stop it ready at hand; 3) they have a reasonable expectation to be compensated for their trouble?
| 244 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:09:33am |
re: #236 NJDhockeyfan
Study to measure camels’ effect on climate change
Aha, so it’s not humans or SUV’s creating global warming, it’s camels!
Instead of studying it, does anyone know what camel steak tastes like, we could solve the problem right there…
I’ve not tried camel steak, but I have seen some wicked camel toe.
Too much?
| 245 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:09:49am |
re: #237 iossarian
A big part of any government’s role is defining what is an acceptable level of “gambling”. In the obvious case, this is why governments have pretty much always regulated actual betting. It is also why government gets involved with healthcare, and with the regulation of all kinds of industries (e.g., seat belts).
And this case will probably lead to even more unnecessary regulation. Because some people are too stupid/lazy to take care of themselves the rest of us will have to suffer.
| 246 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:09:49am |
re: #241 RogueOne
FTFY
I still play lotto. I buy one ticket for 20 draws, and every three months or so I get a new one (I know, “my numbers” will come up on the off-week when I forget to renew)…
| 247 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:09:58am |
re: #235 Cannadian Club Akbar
The lotto/lottery is just a tax on the poor.
It is, but governments typically allow it in some form because:
A) they recognize that poor people are going to engage in some form of gambling anyway, and
B) this way they can recapture more of the money for projects that usually benefit the same poor people, rather than let the profit go to casino owners.
In fact, you can view the lottery as a form of gambling that seeks, eventually, to put itself out of business.
| 248 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:10:01am |
re: #240 Cannadian Club Akbar
I’m sorry, but you keep avoiding every question I ask. I can’t understand why. You are not making your position clear in any way.
| 249 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:11:39am |
re: #245 RogueOne
And this case will probably lead to even more unnecessary regulation. Because some people are too stupid/lazy to take care of themselves the rest of us will have to suffer.
You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s good that some people are able to opt out of fire (or health) coverage, or it isn’t. I think it isn’t, and you seem to be agreeing with me.
| 250 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:12:02am |
re: #242 Obdicut
I’m not really interested in assigning blame.
Send your note to TPM, they seem to be the ones in a hurry to assign the blame. I’m just responding to their error.
| 251 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:12:24am |
re: #247 iossarian
In Florida, we got the lotto to help with education. Then they removed the extra money from the education budget to do other stoopid shit.
| 252 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:13:02am |
re: #250 RogueOne
Send your note to TPM, they seem to be the ones in a hurry to assign the blame. I’m just responding to their error.
Again, Rogue:
I’m more interested in pointing out the rank, stupid foolishness of watching a house burn, a fire spread, and fighting it, in the end— the same fire— only after it had spread to a neighbor’s house.
They had already spent money in responding to the fire. Explain to me, please, what costs they saved themselves in standing around watching it burn for awhile before eventually fighting it.
If you can’t actually give such an explanation, that’s fine.
| 253 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:13:26am |
re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar
In Florida, we got the lotto to help with education. Then they removed the extra money from the education budget to do other stoopid shit.
Examples of stoopid shit please? This is what it boils down to: what exactly do you think the federal/state governments are wasting money on?
| 254 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:14:08am |
re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar
In Florida, we got the lotto to help with education. Then they removed the extra money from the education budget to do other stoopid shit.
That’s what we did in California…and our oranges are better!
| 255 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:14:35am |
The government is us. If we choose crappy government by living in townships with low taxes and no services, then obviously that’s what we get.I still don’t understand why people are so happy the house burned down. If there had been a kid in one of the bedrooms, would they still be happy? If not, why not?
This.
Plus fire departments in rural areas are not a cut and dry issue. In many areas it isn’t financially possible to have a fire department. Trying to paint this as an example of privatization gone bad or the problem with uncaring enterprise is wrong and misinformed.
| 256 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:15:48am |
re: #255 St. Louisville Cards
This.
Plus fire departments in rural areas are not a cut and dry issue. In many areas it isn’t financially possible to have a fire department. Trying to paint this as an example of privatization gone bad or the problem with uncaring enterprise is wrong and misinformed.
People calling the fire department a bunch of assholes offends me, because I’m an asshole.
| 257 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:16:06am |
re: #249 iossarian
You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s good that some people are able to opt out of fire (or health) coverage, or it isn’t. I think it isn’t, and you seem to be agreeing with me.
No, I think these people made a decision and it turned out they made the wrong one. That doesn’t mean that now everyone should be forced to make a decision the government believes is “correct”. These decisions affect no one but the people involved, just like seat belts. People make mistakes, sometimes it’s sad, but that isn’t an excuse for more government involvement.
They didn’t “opt-out” they decided not to “opt-in”. Their house wasn’t located in a coverage area for fire protection and they chose not to contract for that service.
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:16:11am |
re: #253 iossarian
Examples of stoopid shit please? This is what it boils down to: what exactly do you think the federal/state governments are wasting money on?
We got the lotto in 1998, IIRC. All the politicians bitch about is not having money for the skools. I would have to do some serious Google on this. And I don’t have the time.
| 259 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:17:02am |
re: #254 darthstar
That’s what we did in California…and our oranges are better!
I live where Tropicana is. So there!!
//
| 260 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:17:04am |
Wonderful Michael Yon story & pictures!
I like this quote:
“We come from what might well be the most generous country the world has ever known. Sometimes we do it right. Sometimes not. Generosity with brains is a high virtue; generosity without brains is a goodhearted sin.”
| 261 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:17:17am |
re: #257 RogueOne
No, I think these people made a decision and it turned out they made the wrong one. That doesn’t mean that now everyone should be forced to make a decision the government believes is “correct”. These decisions affect no one but the people involved, just like seat belts. People make mistakes, sometimes it’s sad, but that isn’t an excuse for more government involvement.
They didn’t “opt-out” they decided not to “opt-in”. Their house wasn’t located in a coverage area for fire protection and they chose not to contract for that service.
So if there were people trapped in the house, the fire department should have just let them burn?
| 262 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:17:34am |
This is starting to lag very badly again, plus I need to get back to work, BBIAB.
| 263 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:17:49am |
re: #257 RogueOne
These decisions affect no one but the people involved, just like seat belts.
Why on earth would you say something as obviously false as that?
The fire spread to a neighbor’s property. That’s what fire does.
So obviously, the decision involved others. That you have to ignore that to make your argument should really tell you something about its weakness.
| 264 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:18:36am |
re: #263 Obdicut
Why on earth would you say something as obviously false as that?
The fire spread to a neighbor’s property. That’s what fire does.
So obviously, the decision involved others. That you have to ignore that to make your argument should really tell you something about its weakness.
Yeah, and what if it sparked a brushfire that burned more houses?
| 265 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:19:01am |
re: #249 iossarian
This wasn’t an opt out situation, it was an opt in. These people were outside of the town’s jurisdiction. They lived in an area with no fire protection.
| 266 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:19:28am |
re: #261 PT Barnum
So if there were people trapped in the house, the fire department should have just let them burn?
That’s a question of morality, not a contractual question. If you break the legs of a wooden chair does it feel pain?
| 267 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:19:32am |
re: #264 Varek Raith
Yeah, and what if it sparked a brushfire that burned more houses?
The fact is, that most of the time, what is in others best interest is also in our own, once we look past the immediate and focus on the long term.
| 268 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:19:53am |
re: #259 Cannadian Club Akbar
I live where Tropicana is. So there!!
//
I had you figured for a Sunny-D kind of guy (/// seriously…sunny-delight is some crappy shit)
| 269 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:20:16am |
re: #261 PT Barnum
No one is saying that and that wasn’t the case.
| 270 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:20:19am |
re: #265 St. Louisville Cards
This wasn’t an opt out situation, it was an opt in. These people were outside of the town’s jurisdiction. They lived in an area with no fire protection.
The neighbor did have this subscription.
His house was damaged by the fire that the FD refused to put out.
Why do you ignore this?
| 271 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:20:32am |
re: #266 RogueOne
That’s a question of morality, not a contractual question. If you break the legs of a wooden chair does it feel pain?
No it’s a logical extension of your position. If they didn’t contract for fire protection, they don’t deserve any protection is what you seem to be saying. “Oh well, they gambled and lost.”
| 272 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:20:37am |
Okey. I gotta get ready for hell work.
| 273 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:20:45am |
re: #263 Obdicut
Why on earth would you say something as obviously false as that?
The fire spread to a neighbor’s property. That’s what fire does.
So obviously, the decision involved others. That you have to ignore that to make your argument should really tell you something about its weakness.
Their decision not to contract opt for fire protection had zero role in the actual fire. Why would you say something you know is obviously false?
| 274 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:21:22am |
re: #269 St. Louisville Cards
No one is saying that and that wasn’t the case.
But it could have been. Where is the dividing line between “Oh they just took a chance” and “This is a tragedy”?
| 275 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:22:56am |
re: #273 RogueOne
Their decision not to contract opt for fire protection had zero role in the actual fire. Why would you say something you know is obviously false?
What are you fucking talking about, dude? This is hilarious.
If they had fought the fire on the original property, it wouldn’t have spread to the neighbors— the neighbor that was pleading with them to fight the fire before it got to his property. How are you able to force your brain to avoid realizing that?
| 276 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:23:27am |
Chicken McNuggets in the wild:
Image: MECHANICALLY-SEPARATED-CHICKEN-MCNUGGET.jpg
| 277 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:23:34am |
re: #275 Obdicut
What are you fucking talking about, dude? This is hilarious.
If they had fought the fire on the original property, it wouldn’t have spread to the neighbors— the neighbor that was pleading with them to fight the fire before it got to his property. How are you able to force your brain to avoid realizing that?
He’s a libertarian. Facts matter less than ideology
| 278 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:23:38am |
re: #275 Obdicut
What are you fucking talking about, dude? This is hilarious.
If they had fought the fire on the original property, it wouldn’t have spread to the neighbors— the neighbor that was pleading with them to fight the fire before it got to his property. How are you able to force your brain to avoid realizing that?
Because it destroys the libertarian views on free markets!!!
| 279 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:23:54am |
re: #228 iossarian
The government is us. If we choose crappy government by living in townships with low taxes and no services, then obviously that’s what we get.
I still don’t understand why people are so happy the house burned down. If there had been a kid in one of the bedrooms, would they still be happy? If not, why not?
This is about the government adopting business practices from my point of view.
| 280 |
PT Barnum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:23:55am |
re: #276 darthstar
Chicken McNuggets in the wild:
Image: MECHANICALLY-SEPARATED-CHICKEN-MCNUGGET.jpg[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]
I did NOT need to see that
| 281 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:24:15am |
re: #270 Varek Raith
The neighbors house was not damaged. The fire spread to his property and was put out. The neighbor lost some grass, and judging by the story, I’m doubting how much the fire spread to the neighbors property because once on scene the neighbor said to put out the house fire.
| 282 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:24:51am |
re: #276 darthstar
Chicken McNuggets in the wild:
Image: MECHANICALLY-SEPARATED-CHICKEN-MCNUGGET.jpg[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]
LOL.
See why I don’t eat processed foods?
BLEH!
| 283 |
wee fury Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:25:26am |
The thing is — many rural counties have an opt/pay fire protection program. Pima County, AZ is one that comes to mind. Sometimes, those who live in urban areas, where many public services are a given, tend to forget that rural living public services can be much different.
The homeowner gambled with his home by not paying the fire protection. He lost.
| 284 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:26:12am |
re: #283 wee fury
The thing is — many rural counties have an opt/pay fire protection program. Pima County, AZ is one that comes to mind. Sometimes, those who live in urban areas, where many public services are a given, tend to forget that rural living public services can be much different.
The homeowner gambled with his home by not paying the fire protection. He lost.
So did his neighbor, WHO DID HAVE THIS SERVICE!
Sheesh!
| 285 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:26:23am |
And again:
This stupid, subscription-based service is a terrible idea for three reasons:
1. Imperfect record keeping. What if you did pay, but there’s a blip in the computer and you’re listed as not a payee? What if you just moved, and they didn’t update your address?
2. Their notification about that service amounted to a phone call and a letter. That is all. It’s completely easy to miss a letter, and if someone called up to ask me to pay $75 for fire protection, I’d assume it was a goddamn scam.
3. The elderly, and the sick. A lot of people who still live on their own are not completely engaged with day-to-day life. It would be incredibly easy for an elderly person or a sick person with a little mental impairment to misunderstand the situation and think that what was being offered was insurance or some sort of extra fire protection— especially since it’s such a stupid idea to begin with.
| 286 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:27:09am |
re: #284 Varek Raith
No the neighbors property was protected and saved by the fire department. Stop making up that the neighbors home was damaged.
| 287 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:27:20am |
re: #281 St. Louisville Cards
I’m doubting how much the fire spread to the neighbors property because once on scene the neighbor said to put out the house fire.
And the firemen refused.
| 288 |
wee fury Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:27:26am |
#284
If I read the article correctly… the neighbor did not lose his home.
| 289 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:28:39am |
re: #288 wee fury
You do know that having a burned-down home next to your own lowers your property value by a huge amount, right?
One of the buildings on my parents block in SF burned down, and the local community is suing the owners to either fix it up or sell it because having a burned shell of a property is a massive property value hit.
So yes, the neighbor did lose.
| 290 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:29:06am |
re: #283 wee fury
The thing is — many rural counties have an opt/pay fire protection program. Pima County, AZ is one that comes to mind. Sometimes, those who live in urban areas, where many public services are a given, tend to forget that rural living public services can be much different.
The homeowner gambled with his home by not paying the fire protection. He lost.
Again, would you be saying this if, say, his two kids had died in the fire?
| 291 |
wee fury Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:29:49am |
re: #289 Obdicut
You obviously have never lived in a rural area. Your argument does nothing to showcase your above average intelligence.
| 292 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:30:04am |
re: #289 Obdicut
You do know that having a burned-down home next to your own lowers your property value by a huge amount, right?
One of the buildings on my parents block in SF burned down, and the local community is suing the owners to either fix it up or sell it because having a burned shell of a property is a massive property value hit.
So yes, the neighbor did lose.
It’s going to be an awkward block party next year.
| 293 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:30:43am |
re: #292 darthstar
It’s going to be an awkward block party next year.
Expect lots of toasted marshmallow jokes.
| 294 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:30:53am |
Coming to Converotopia near you;
Subscription Cops!
“911, what’s your emergency?”
“A man’s is trying to kill my husband!”
“Did you pay your yearly fee?”
“….What? No…”
“Sorry, you’re on your own.”
| 295 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:31:34am |
re: #291 wee fury
You obviously have never lived in a rural area. Your argument does nothing to showcase your above average intelligence.
I grew up in the country in Connecticut. My closest two neighbors were farms. So, you’re wrong.
And yes, having a burned down neighbor lowers your property value in the country, as well. Why on earth would you think it didn’t?
| 296 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:31:55am |
re: #285 Obdicut
Well option 2 is no fire service period. They don’t have money trees in Tennessee, so someone has to pay for it. The opt in was a way for more people to get fire protection. It is not an option of fire protection for all or fire protection for paying members. It is an option of fire protection for paying members for fire protection for no one.
If they went the Obdicut way, the fire house would be empty most days because they don’t have the budget to staff it.
| 297 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:34:25am |
re: #296 St. Louisville Cards
Well option 2 is no fire service period.
No, it’s not.
They don’t have money trees in Tennessee, so someone has to pay for it.
Perhaps you can explain how much money they saved by standing around watching the fire burn for awhile before fighting it. Can you?
It is an option of fire protection for paying members for fire protection for no one.
Why on earth do you believe this? Where are you getting this from?
If they went the Obdicut way, the fire house would be empty most days because they don’t have the budget to staff it.
There are 1,000 households in the area they get ‘subscriptions’ from. So they get, at most, $75,000 from this. How many full-time firemen does that buy?
And again: Can you explain how they saved money by showing up, watching the fire burn, and then fighting it after awhile?
| 298 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:34:47am |
re: #296 St. Louisville Cards
Please answer this.
I have no problem with this kind of opt-in government in principle — especially in rural areas where individual need for government services and available infrastructure vary so widely. But forget the politics: what moral theory allows these firefighters (admittedly acting under orders) to watch this house burn to the ground when 1) they have already responded to the scene; 2) they have the means to stop it ready at hand; 3) they have a reasonable expectation to be compensated for their trouble?
| 299 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:35:26am |
re: #283 wee fury
The thing is — many rural counties have an opt/pay fire protection program. Pima County, AZ is one that comes to mind. Sometimes, those who live in urban areas, where many public services are a given, tend to forget that rural living public services can be much different.
The homeowner gambled with his home by not paying the fire protection. He lost.
Just for the complete avoidance of doubt: urban and suburban public services are not a “given”; they are paid for by taxes.
| 300 |
wee fury Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:35:43am |
I have had my say. To expand on my original statement would do no good. And, the day is too beautiful for words — I’m going to go breathe it in.
| 301 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:36:06am |
re: #296 St. Louisville Cards
Option 1 is fire protection for everyone. Obviously in a rural area people realize that it may take time for the FD to arrive.
Option 2 is fire protection for no-one. People know where they stand and don’t expect organized help in the case of a fire.
Option 3 is this “opt-in” service.
What people are hopefully discovering is that option 3 is really not much more use than option 2, because the fire service will not prevent damage to your property that occurs due to a fire on an adjacent, non-covered building.
| 302 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:36:18am |
re: #289 Obdicut
re: #294 Varek Raith
Again more lies about this situation. This was not a privatized fire department. This was a city run department that was trying to stretch their reach by adding revenue to get to a larger area.
A private fire department would have put the fire out for $5000 and walked away with a profit. So looks like we need private fire departments, privatization wins out again.
| 303 |
wee fury Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:36:19am |
re: #299 imp_62
Just for the complete avoidance of doubt: urban and suburban public services are not a “given”; they are paid for by taxes.
Yes,
| 305 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:37:25am |
re: #302 St. Louisville Cards
Again more lies about this situation. This was not a privatized fire department.
Where did I say it was?
A private fire department would have put the fire out for $5000 and walked away with a profit. So looks like we need private fire departments, privatization wins out again.
Oh. Troll. GAZE.
Should have guessed it, after this:
| 306 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:37:38am |
Updating an earlier story, Faizal Shazad, the Times Square bomber, got life in prison.
| 307 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:38:11am |
I can’t believe we’re debating whether or not house fires should be put out…
| 308 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:39:14am |
re: #307 JasonA
I can’t believe we’re debating whether or not house fires should be put out…
You must admit, it’s a difficult question: should a fire be put out if doing so limits the EFFICIENCY of the FREE MARKET and in doing so may result in HIGHER TAXES?
| 309 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:39:52am |
re: #307 JasonA
I can’t believe we’re debating whether or not house fires should be put out…
I’m glad some on this thread ain’t in a position of power.
| 310 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:40:28am |
| 311 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:41:15am |
| 312 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:41:55am |
re: #305 Obdicut
You are back to that again. what does that mean.
| 313 |
Interesting Times Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:43:00am |
re: #309 Varek Raith
I’m glad some on this thread ain’t in a position of power.
They still vote though :(
(so make sure you do as well to cancel them out!)
| 314 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:43:16am |
| 315 |
palomino Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:44:07am |
re: #261 PT Barnum
So if there were people trapped in the house, the fire department should have just let them burn?
Well, they didn’t pay their fee, so they deserve it.
This is all wrong on so many levels. The “teach them a lesson, let it burn” argument sounds great in a college ethics seminar. But, in the real world, not so much: by slightly deviating from policy, the fire dept could have prevented significant human suffering. Why not just put out the damn fire and send the family a bill? I’m fairly sure that, after the fact, most homeowners would pay $75 to have their home unburned and still standing.
Additionally, the county will probably wind up spending more than $75 on cleanup of the rubble, ash, etc., as well as the public property likely destroyed, things like gas and electric meters, phone and power lines, etc. There’s also a major hassle for neighbors, who now have to deal with the eyesore of a vacant burned lot, a cleanup crew, and then the joy of housing construction next door.
These things don’t take place in a theoretical vacuum. There are all sorts of consequences in addition to a family’s home burning down.
| 316 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:45:22am |
re: #315 palomino
Well, they didn’t pay their fee, so they deserve it.
This is all wrong on so many levels. The “teach them a lesson, let it burn” argument sounds great in a college ethics seminar. But, in the real world, not so much: by slightly deviating from policy, the fire dept could have prevented significant human suffering. Why not just put out the damn fire and send the family a bill? I’m fairly sure that, after the fact, most homeowners would pay $75 to have their home unburned and still standing.
Additionally, the county will probably wind up spending more than $75 on cleanup of the rubble, ash, etc., as well as the public property likely destroyed, things like gas and electric meters, phone and power lines, etc. There’s also a major hassle for neighbors, who now have to deal with the eyesore of a vacant burned lot, a cleanup crew, and then the joy of housing construction next door.
These things don’t take place in a theoretical vacuum. There are all sorts of consequences in addition to a family’s home burning down.
Well, they didn’t pay their fee, so they would deserve it. — Jonah Goldberg
///
| 317 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:45:22am |
re: #305 Obdicut
I suppose the Cradicks and (and other Olbion county residents who chose not to pay the $75 fee for the City of Fulton fire services) could be seen as free riders on the city’s taxpayers, but I think there are better methods of dealing with that problem that having the firemen sit and watch a fire burn without trying to put it out. They are the wrong enforcement tool.
| 318 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:45:47am |
St. Louisville Cards
(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 8, 2009 at 1:26 pm
No. of comments posted: 65
No. of links posted: 0
@Obdicut
@Varek Wraith
@iossarian
Why are you even bothering to argue / discuss with someone who obviously registered for the sole purpose of showing up periodically to fling feces? Save it for people who take the art of LGF debate a bit more seriously and are more respectful of others.
| 319 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:46:15am |
re: #318 imp_62
That’s why I GAZEd.
| 320 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:46:16am |
re: #318 imp_62
St. Louisville Cards
(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 8, 2009 at 1:26 pm
No. of comments posted: 65
No. of links posted: 0@Obdicut
@Varek Wraith
@iossarianWhy are you even bothering to argue / discuss with someone who obviously registered for the sole purpose of showing up periodically to fling feces? Save it for people who take the art of LGF debate a bit more seriously and are more respectful of others.
Because I’m bored.
:)
| 323 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:47:40am |
| 324 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:47:44am |
re: #319 Obdicut
GAZE obviously stands for something my clueless self does not grasp O_o
| 325 |
palomino Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:48:08am |
re: #285 Obdicut
And again:
3. The elderly, and the sick. A lot of people who still live on their own are not completely engaged with day-to-day life. It would be incredibly easy for an elderly person or a sick person with a little mental impairment to misunderstand the situation and think that what was being offered was insurance or some sort of extra fire protection— especially since it’s such a stupid idea to begin with.
Hey, you snooze, you lose. You know what you can do with your outdated concepts like compassion for the elderly, poor and mentally impaired.
| 326 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:48:24am |
re: #318 imp_62
Save it for people who take the art of LGF debate a bit more seriously and are more respectful of others.
Who are these people of whom you speak?
| 328 |
Radicchio ad Absurdum Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:49:33am |
| 329 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:51:19am |
re: #317 jaunte
Fire departments in incorporated areas (like cities, towns, etc.) deal with free loaders too - abandoned buildings, wildlands, etc., and yet they do fight those fires as well. They do so to protect neighboring structures to prevent fires from becoming uncontrollable - usually by fighting it from the exterior. This way they avoid risking their own personnel from damage and debris caused by a fire-weakened structure, but protect nearby structures.
That’s part of the reason that this situation is so disgraceful on so many levels - the fire company didn’t fight the fire even to contain it to the property to protect neighboring properties. It was only after the fire spread that they engaged in fire protection.
They could have fought the fire from the exterior - protecting the neighboring property. They didn’t even do that.
| 330 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:51:52am |
I think this would be a perfect question for this years political candidates:
“Do you think the firemen should have put out the fire at Gene Cranick’s home?”
| 331 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:52:00am |
re: #326 iossarian
Who are these people of whom you speak?
Well , there’s Walter, and Cannadian, and me, and ummmm, ummm
nvm.
| 332 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:52:10am |
re: #297 Obdicut
No, it’s not.
Perhaps you can explain how much money they saved by standing around watching the fire burn for awhile before fighting it. Can you?
Stop making things up, they didn’t stand around and watch the fire, they showed and prevented its spread. They protected the property of the people who decided not to gamble.
Why on earth do you believe this? Where are you getting this from?There are 1,000 households in the area they get ‘subscriptions’ from. So they get, at most, $75,000 from this. How many full-time firemen does that buy?
That doesn’t buy fire fighters, it might buy a fire fighter.
And I don’t believe anything, it is the facts of fire protection in rural areas. Too much land, too few people.
re: #298 Varek Raith
Please answer this.
1.) I don’t necessarily defend the firemens actions, but I place the majority of the blame on the homeowner.
2.) No one was at risk, all the people were safe, so it isn’t necessarily a moral matter to me. It was a matter of saving possessions/stuff. This guy made a decision that his stuff was not worth $75, so why should the fire department take the time, effort and even potential risk to save something worth less than $75.
| 333 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:52:53am |
This reminds me of the volunteer fire squads in “Gangs of New York.” When they weren’t fighting each other over hydrant control, they were inside the burning building, stealing stuff.
| 334 |
Big Steve Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:53:31am |
Since we are still on the fire thing in Tennessee…..I am on a local small city council. So I checked. Our expenditures for our volunteer fire department was $2.03 million for last year. While we have 37,000 citizens we have only 12,000 property tax ID’s for the city (businesses and individual properties). Therefore the math is that for every property owner, fire service costs $168 per year in taxes. So getting the same service for $75 is quite the bargain.
| 335 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:53:48am |
re: #321 Gus 802
John Galt always struck me as a self centered prick.
I spent a little time in Ouray and Silverton Colorado this summer (reportedly models for Galt’s Gulch) and read some of the history of the towns. At one point they pushed the entire property tax burden of the town onto the red light districts.
It wasn’t that they could operate without taxation, they just taxed the people at the very bottom of the system.
| 336 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:54:31am |
re: #318 imp_62
Nice, run away. I’m not the one calling people idiots.
| 337 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:55:36am |
re: #334 Big Steve
And a good example that, when it comes to statistically improbable events, people are lousy consumers.
Should this guy have bought the service?
Yes.
Does it make any fucking sense to make this an optional service?
No.
Should the firefighters, who had already spent the money responding, and who eventually had to fight the fire anyway, have fought it as soon as they arrived?
Yes.
| 338 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:55:48am |
I love how no one seems to give a damn that the family’s three dogs and cat died in this fire.
| 339 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:56:26am |
re: #338 JasonA
That explains him punching the fire chief a little better.
| 340 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:56:56am |
re: #322 Killgore Trout
The DJIA jumped because the Bank of Japan kept interest rates near zero and threw more money to keep that sagging economy afloat and because the ISM found that the non-manufacturing economy was growing. The rate of growth exceeded the expectation by economists.
And here’s where the numbers don’t make sense:
Of the indexes that compose the ISM poll, the business activity index slowed by 1.6 percentage points in September to 52.8%, the new orders index climbed 2.5 percentage points to 54.9% and the employment index added 2 percentage points to 50.2%.The employment index was in particular focus ahead of the government’s pivotal report on nonfarm payrolls due out early Friday. U.S. stocks extended their gains after the ISM report’s release, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average /quotes/comstock/10w!i:dji/delayed (DJIA 10,914, +162.72, +1.51%) up nearly 100 points in morning trading. See more on Tuesday’s broad-based gains in U.S. stocks.
While the index was stronger than forecast it nonetheless is one associated with a slow-growing economy. The September headline figure of 53.2% was the second-worst reading since February.
It’s a good sign that the markets are shrugging off bad news - it may signal that the markets have turned a corner.
Alternatively, it’s a bad sign that they’ve shrugged off the bad news because it would suggest that they’re ignoring the ongoing problems with the economy and engaging in wishful thinking.
Right now - the markets are going with the former.
| 341 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:58:57am |
re: #337 Obdicut
Why do you keep making things up? This was not made an optional service. They had no service, so the neighboring department offered them some. The neighboring department has no legal jurisdiction to require the $75.
| 342 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:59:33am |
re: #336 St. Louisville Cards
Nice, run away. I’m not the one calling people idiots.
I practice what I preach. I will return to my regularly scheduled program of ignoring you. Without even pointing out that I called you, in essence, a troll. Not an idiot. But if you’re volunteering…
| 343 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 8:59:44am |
re: #338 JasonA
I love how no one seems to give a damn that the family’s three dogs and cat died in this fire.
I love how the guy didn’t think his pets were worth $75 a year.
| 344 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:01:31am |
re: #343 St. Louisville Cards
I love how the guy didn’t think his pets were worth $75 a year.
I love how the FD stood by and did nothing.
Would you support subscription based cops? EMTs?
| 345 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:01:35am |
re: #305 Obdicut
You’ve brought this up twice, please explain what you are reading that is not there.
| 346 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:02:15am |
re: #341 St. Louisville Cards
Why do you keep making things up? This was not made an optional service. They had no service, so the neighboring department offered them some. The neighboring department has no legal jurisdiction to require the $75.
I think you’re missing the point that the firefighters were present and not putting the fire out, even though they had the means to.
| 347 |
sagehen Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:02:21am |
re: #252 Obdicut
Again, Rogue:
I’m more interested in pointing out the rank, stupid foolishness of watching a house burn, a fire spread, and fighting it, in the end— the same fire— only after it had spread to a neighbor’s house.
They had already spent money in responding to the fire. Explain to me, please, what costs they saved themselves in standing around watching it burn for awhile before eventually fighting it.
If you can’t actually give such an explanation, that’s fine.
It’s not about saving money, it’s about teaching that guy a lesson he won’t soon forget. And perhaps making him serve as an example to others.
Y’see, only a liberal nanny state government cares about governing well in service of the public. A conservative, authoritarian government is about making us obey and punishing us when we don’t immediately do what we’re told — and if it costs extra to hammer home the message then so be it.
| 348 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:02:22am |
re: #343 St. Louisville Cards
I love how the guy didn’t think his pets were worth $75 a year.
I love how the fire chief and Mayor David Crocker thought the house, three dogs and one cat were worth 75 bucks.
Those are some priorities there.
| 349 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:03:00am |
re: #344 Varek Raith
I love how the FD stood by and did nothing.
Would you support subscription based cops? EMTs?
If I owe the IRS money then Canada can invade my property.
| 350 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:04:02am |
re: #348 Gus 802
I love how the fire chief and Mayor David Crocker thought the house, three dogs and one cat were worth 75 bucks.
Those are some priorities there.
Libertarian theory + Reality = Fucked up bullshit.
| 351 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:04:54am |
re: #344 Varek Raith
Again, to try to posit this as a subscription based fire department is intellectually dishonest. This was a city run and tax payer funded fire department. The subscription based part only came in for the city to get more revenue to extend their reach.
| 352 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:05:24am |
re: #350 Varek Raith
Well, except for Bloodstar, where it = sober engagement with reality leading to pragmatic policy.
But he’d definitely an exception to the rule.
| 353 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:05:30am |
re: #350 Varek Raith
Libertarian theory + Reality = Fucked up bullshit.
One nation, under God Money…
People Property Money First!
//
| 354 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:07:10am |
re: #348 Gus 802
I love how the fire chief and Mayor David Crocker thought the house, three dogs and one cat were worth 75 bucks.
Those are some priorities there.
Way to shift the blame.
| 355 |
sagehen Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:07:12am |
re: #255 St. Louisville Cards
This.
Plus fire departments in rural areas are not a cut and dry issue. In many areas it isn’t financially possible to have a fire department. Trying to paint this as an example of privatization gone bad or the problem with uncaring enterprise is wrong and misinformed.
This is government a la carte.
Which sort of defeats the whole purpose of government, and flies in the face of “provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare”… but whatev.
| 356 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:07:31am |
re: #347 sagehen
It’s not about saving money, it’s about teaching that guy a lesson he won’t soon forget. And perhaps making him serve as an example to others.
Y’see, only a liberal nanny state government cares about governing well in service of the public. A conservative, authoritarian government is about making us obey and punishing us when we don’t immediately do what we’re told — and if it costs extra to hammer home the message then so be it.
A smart fireman would have made a side deal with the Cranicks.
| 357 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:07:57am |
No surprise coming from a group of people that think people that don’t have health insurance should die if they contract a potentially fatal illness.
Money, money, money. A nation that has more billionaires per square inch lets a man’s house burn down for 75 bucks.
Too bad Gene Cranick’s home wasn’t in Afghanistan. Then the US Army would have put the fire out for free.
| 359 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:09:07am |
re: #350 Varek Raith
Libertarian theory + Reality = Fucked up bullshit.
And AGAIN, there are private fire departments in the USA today and you don’t here about this problem with them. South Fulton is a public, city run fire department. Keep twisting facts though.
| 360 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:11:14am |
Charging a fee to each household is ridiculously stupid when you consider that a burning structure affects the whole community. Is that town entitled to money from the county to help fight their fires? Absolutely. It should come in the form of property taxes, though.
| 361 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:11:49am |
re: #355 sagehen
This is government a la carte.
Which sort of defeats the whole purpose of government, and flies in the face of “provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare”… but whatev.
And AGAIN, the realities of the rural fire department situation are not, give people fire protection or give them a subscription option for fire protection. Without proper funding, there would be NO fire department.
| 362 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:12:33am |
re: #295 Obdicut
I grew up in the country in Connecticut. My closest two neighbors were farms. So, you’re wrong.
And yes, having a burned down neighbor lowers your property value in the country, as well. Why on earth would you think it didn’t?
Well, if the guy was smart enough to pay for homeowner’s insurance, he’ll have money to rebuild.
I’m pretty neutral on the whole thing…we live out in the middle of nowhere and rely upon rural fire service, and make sure all our taxes and fees are paid on time. We also carry lots of insurance which is kinda expensive because we don’t have a hydrant anywhere close to us. It’s just part of the rural living package.
Sometimes when people gamble they lose big. I feel sorry for them, but I can’t force them to stop gambling.
| 363 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:14:08am |
re: #350 Varek Raith
Libertarian theory + Reality =
Fucked up bullshit.
matter - antimatter reaction
FTFY. No need to thank me.
| 364 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:14:57am |
re: #362 funky chicken
Yes, you can. Make the $75 a tax and not an optional fee, since it never, ever, ever makes sense for someone not to pay it. It doesn’t make sense for the community, either; what starts out as a small house fire could turn into a huge forest fire.
| 365 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:16:07am |
With due respect to all participants, it seems to me that people here are arguing at cross purposes regarding this fire department / policy / political theory debate.
| 366 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:17:05am |
re: #360 JasonA
Charging a fee to each household is ridiculously stupid when you consider that a burning structure affects the whole community. Is that town entitled to money from the county to help fight their fires? Absolutely. It should come in the form of property taxes, though.
This isn’t the fire department’s community. That’s the point, it is outside of their community/tax area.
In rural counties, full coverage isn’t an option. In urban areas, everyone is within 3-5 minutes of a fire house. In a rural area like this, some people will be 3-5 minutes and others will be 30-50 minutes. Its not feasible/fair for a person who lives 50 minutes (who’s house is going to burn down due to response time) to pay the same as someone who lives 5 minutes away. In addition there normally isn’t enough tax revenue to create and maintain a fire department in a rural area.
| 367 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:17:13am |
re: #344 Varek Raith
I love how the FD stood by and did nothing.
Would you support subscription based cops? EMTs?
No, but if I purchased a home in an area with service available only through subscription, I’d definitely pay for those services. I wouldn’t purchase a home under those conditions, but I can’t stop other people from making that choice….
| 368 |
sagehen Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:17:56am |
re: #307 JasonA
I can’t believe we’re debating whether or not house fires should be put out…
Why?
Just last week we were debating whether the First Amendment is really for everyone. The week before that it was does the 14th Amendment really mean what it says” And there’s been multiple go-rounds on whether torture is a good thing.
Letting houses burn to the ground seems a perfectly predictable teabag position.
| 369 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:18:26am |
Well, I am going to Staples to buy some printer paper. And maybe a fire extinguisher.
| 370 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:19:00am |
re: #364 Obdicut
Yes, you can. Make the $75 a tax and not an optional fee, since it never, ever, ever makes sense for someone not to pay it. It doesn’t make sense for the community, either; what starts out as a small house fire could turn into a huge forest fire.
This is the crux of the question, right here. As with healthcare, fire protection is something that becomes much more inefficient if it isn’t provided as a blanket service for a community. So the debate should be a community one about what level of coverage is appropriate, and how the cost should be divided up.
Making these kinds of service opt-in makes people who get all worked up about “welfare queens” feel good, but it ultimately ends up costing a lot more. It really is a nose/spite/face “solution” to the problem.
| 371 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:20:18am |
| 372 |
palomino Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:20:25am |
re: #338 JasonA
I love how no one seems to give a damn that the family’s three dogs and cat died in this fire.
Fuck the dead pets. They got what they deserved. Anyway, there’s a libertarian point to be made here, and that trumps all else.
This should teach those pets a valuable lesson: Make sure that your owner is paid up on all local fees for homeowner services.
| 373 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:20:41am |
re: #367 funky chicken
No, but if I purchased a home in an area with service available only through subscription, I’d definitely pay for those services. I wouldn’t purchase a home under those conditions, but I can’t stop other people from making that choice…
Actually, you can stop other people from making that choice. You can vote for local legislators who will make a certain level of fire coverage non-optional.
| 374 |
Four More Tears Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:20:51am |
re: #372 palomino
Fuck the dead pets. They got what they deserved. Anyway, there’s a libertarian point to be made here, and that trumps all else.
This should teach those pets a valuable lesson: Make sure that your owner is paid up on all local fees for homeowner services.
whimpers
| 375 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:23:30am |
Here’s this from Think Progress:
Union City Fire Department Chief Kelly Edmison objects to the new expansion, saying that “the best option is a true fire tax. It eliminates this having 9/11 or whoever check to say, ‘Are they covered or not covered?’ The last thing a firefighter wants to do is to not be able to help when they’d like to.” According to documents prepared by the county in 2008, a paltry 0.13 cent increase in property taxes on each household would be all it would take to fund fire services for the towns within the county.
At least Chief Edmison is finally a voice of reason in a region of Galtian stupidity. The report is that now Obion County wants to expand “subscription only” fire protection. All of this because they refuse to institute a 0.13 cent increase in property taxes which translates to 104 dollars for 80K of value. So instead of raising taxes they institute fees which will cause future problems and more homes burning down to the ground. No new taxes they will scream! Instead, a fee and more Boss Hog shenanigans.
| 376 |
shutdown Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:23:46am |
re: #373 iossarian
Actually, you can stop other people from making that choice. You can vote for local legislators who will make a certain level of fire coverage non-optional.
The way things are going these days, you can probably vote for a legislator who promises to extinguish fires and end crime through witchcraft or the power of prayer.
| 377 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:24:17am |
re: #373 iossarian
Actually, you can stop other people from making that choice. You can vote for local legislators who will make a certain level of fire coverage non-optional.
Right, and I do. I would also hope that the residents of this district will now vote to have mandatory fire coverage provided through a mandatory tax. I fear that the usual suspects would demonstrate about “losing freedom” before the vote, however.
| 379 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:25:41am |
re: #377 funky chicken
Good stuff. Sorry if my original response to you was a bit aggressive.
| 380 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:26:15am |
Using this logic Haiti would have been on their own after the earthquake.
Odd, the very same people always screaming against “survival of the fittest” are the ones that support it in an economic sense.
| 381 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:27:59am |
re: #375 Gus 802
Here’s this from Think Progress:
At least Chief Edmison is finally a voice of reason in a region of Galtian stupidity. The report is that now Obion County wants to expand “subscription only” fire protection. All of this because they refuse to institute a 0.13 cent increase in property taxes which translates to 104 dollars for 80K of value. So instead of raising taxes they institute fees which will cause future problems and more homes burning down to the ground. No new taxes they will scream! Instead, a fee and more Boss Hog shenanigans.
Exactly—the voters of this area apparently refused to support a tiny tax increase so they could have fire protection. The voters chose to defund the fire department, or to prevent the FD from collecting taxes so it could fully function.
Stupid is as stupid does. Screaming at fire fighters because the majority of voters in this district voted stupidly isn’t really fair.
| 382 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:28:52am |
re: #381 funky chicken
Once the firefighters had responded, the money was basically spent. At that point, it really was stupid of them not to fight the fire.
Especially since they had to fight it eventually.
| 383 |
palomino Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:28:55am |
re: #375 Gus 802
Here’s this from Think Progress:
At least Chief Edmison is finally a voice of reason in a region of Galtian stupidity. The report is that now Obion County wants to expand “subscription only” fire protection. All of this because they refuse to institute a 0.13 cent increase in property taxes which translates to 104 dollars for 80K of value. So instead of raising taxes they institute fees which will cause future problems and more homes burning down to the ground. No new taxes they will scream! Instead, a fee and more Boss Hog shenanigans.
Good point. Firefighters choose their career largely because they want to help people in need (as quaint a concept as that may seem to the “let it burn” crowd).
Telling them not to put out a fire due to unpaid fees is akin to telling a doctor to let a patient expire on the operating table due to lack of proper insurance. This simply doesn’t jibe with the Hippocratic Oath (and whatever the firefighter equivalent is).
| 384 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:28:58am |
re: #379 iossarian
no problem :-), we really are on the same page
| 385 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:31:03am |
re: #381 funky chicken
Exactly—the voters of this area apparently refused to support a tiny tax increase so they could have fire protection. The voters chose to defund the fire department, or to prevent the FD from collecting taxes so it could fully function.
Stupid is as stupid does. Screaming at fire fighters because the majority of voters in this district voted stupidly isn’t really fair.
I still think it would have been good if the fire chief or captain said to hell with city council and Mayor Crocker and put out the fire anyway.
| 386 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:32:44am |
re: #382 Obdicut
Once the firefighters had responded, the money was basically spent. At that point, it really was stupid of them not to fight the fire.
Especially since they had to fight it eventually.
Why do you keep repeating that lie? Once the fire department responded they IMMEDIATELY fought the fire. No where have I seen anything saying they showed up and did nothing, until the fire reached the neighbor’s property.
| 387 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:34:00am |
re: #383 palomino
Good point. Firefighters choose their career largely because they want to help people in need (as quaint a concept as that may seem to the “let it burn” crowd).
Telling them not to put out a fire due to unpaid fees is akin to telling a doctor to let a patient expire on the operating table due to lack of proper insurance. This simply doesn’t jibe with the Hippocratic Oath (and whatever the firefighter equivalent is).
There are different firefighter codes of ethics. Last night I located some ethics of sorts:
I would think that the fire comes first. What we have here is essentially politics coming before life, safety, and property. Put out the fire first then worry about the politics.
| 388 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:34:33am |
Defiant Times Square bomber jailed for life
A Pakistani-American warned Americans “the war with the Muslims has just begun,” as he was sentenced on Tuesday to life in prison for a botched attempt to bomb New York’s famed Times Square.
“The defeat of the US is imminent and will happen in the near future,” Faisal Shahzad told the court shortly before his sentence was announced.
“Brace yourselves because the war with the Muslims has just begun,” he said.
Shahzad, a US citizen who lived in Connecticut and started what resembled an ordinary American family before embracing jihadist militancy, pleaded guilty in June to the May 1 bombing attempt.
The 30-year-old obtained US citizenship in April 2009, but said Tuesday it was only a ploy.
“Didn’t you swear allegiance to this country?” Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum asked him.
“I sweared, but I didn’t mean it,” Shahzad replied.
May this asshole finds out what a shiv is.
| 389 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:35:45am |
re: #376 imp_62
The way things are going these days, you can probably vote for a legislator who promises to extinguish fires and end crime through witchcraft or the power of prayer.
You forgot about stoning the homos and killing abortionists. And slashing FDA inspections (?) so our government can become more “realigned with our Savior” like Senator DeMint says./////
| 390 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:36:32am |
re: #386 St. Louisville Cards
Why do you keep repeating that lie? Once the fire department responded they IMMEDIATELY fought the fire. No where have I seen anything saying they showed up and did nothing, until the fire reached the neighbor’s property.
So now you’re defending the situation on the grounds that, instead of driving out to the incident location in order to be ready to contain the fire, the crew sat in the firehouse and waited for the fire to spread before responding?
This really is moving into LOL territory.
| 391 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:37:37am |
re: #386 St. Louisville Cards
Why do you keep repeating that lie? Once the fire department responded they IMMEDIATELY fought the fire. No where have I seen anything saying they showed up and did nothing, until the fire reached the neighbor’s property.
Maybe you missed the news reports.
It was only when a neighbor’s field caught fire, a neighbor who had paid the county fire service fee, that the department responded. Gene Cranick asked the fire chief to make an exception and save his home, the chief wouldn’t.We asked him why.
He wouldn’t talk to us and called police to have us escorted off the property. Police never came but firefighters quickly left the scene. Meanwhile, the Cranick home continued to burn.
| 392 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:38:31am |
re: #391 jaunte
Maybe you missed the news reports.
[Link: www.wpsdlocal6.com…]
What a weasel!
He wouldn’t talk to us and called police to have us escorted off the property. Police never came but firefighters quickly left the scene. Meanwhile, the Cranick home continued to burn.
| 393 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:39:22am |
Thanks to beekiller for posting the puppy mill story—I sent it to my Mom, who shows and breeds show dogs. I’m gonna guess Sharron Angle just lost a vote. It’s kinda a straw/camel’s back thing, as we really don’t like Harry Reid, but these Tea Party nuts are repulsive.
| 394 |
Flounder Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:39:41am |
I really enjoyed reading the story and comments about a house fire getting out of control for a lack of a $75.00 payment. Some people who post here must not get out much…sorry. Anyone who has had a car, and taken the glass coverage and/or collision off of it, only to need it shortly thereafter knows that is the way it is. Life is not guaranteed. Where I live, the local volunteer fire department are called cellar savers for a reason.
| 395 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:39:52am |
re: #388 NJDhockeyfan
Defiant Times Square bomber jailed for life
May this asshole finds out what a shiv is.
I would have thought you’d complain that President Obama was rewarding this guy with free housing, food, and medical care for life.
Life in prison is fine with me. I don’t wish murder upon every asshole who fails at terror. The system worked. Citizens reported a suspicious vehicle, police responded, nobody got hurt, and the bastard got caught.
| 396 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:40:30am |
re: #393 funky chicken
Thanks to beekiller for posting the puppy mill story—I sent it to my Mom, who shows and breeds show dogs. I’m gonna guess Sharron Angle just lost a vote. It’s kinda a straw/camel’s back thing, as we really don’t like Harry Reid, but these Tea Party nuts are repulsive.
So I guess it’s official? The Tea Party and Joe the “Not a Plumber” support puppy mills?
| 397 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:41:13am |
re: #395 darthstar
I would have thought you’d complain that President Obama was rewarding this guy with free housing, food, and medical care for life.
When have I ever said anything like that?
| 398 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:41:49am |
re: #381 funky chicken
Yet, this situation worked fine for 20 years.
Cranick, who lives outside the city limits, admits he “forgot” to pay the annual $75 fee. The county does not have a county-wide firefighting service, but South Fulton offers fire coverage to rural residents for a fee.Cranick says he told the operator he would pay whatever is necessary to have the fire put out.
His offer wasn’t accepted, he said.
The fire fee policy dates back 20 or so years.
“Anybody that’s not inside the city limits of South Fulton, it’s a service we offer. Either they accept it or they don’t,” said South Fulton Mayor David Crocker.
Imposing a tax would prevent this situation from arising in the future (or alternatively allocating a portion of already existing property tax collections for fire protection), but it is interesting that this is the first we’re hearing of a problem in this case.
For what it’s worth, the rate in South Fulton is $ 3.65 per $100 assessed. Obion County generally assesses at $1.95 per $100 assessed.
Frankly, fire protection is one of the most basic of services government provides. Funding it shouldn’t be optional (whether that protection comes in the form of a public fire company or a private company contracted to do so by the municipality/county) since the benefit is to all.
| 399 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:44:48am |
Well what do you know. Chief Wilds has a Facebook page:
And looky here:
* God
* I hate cigarette
* “I’m Proud To Be Christian” by Aaron Chavez
* Proud to be an American
* God is love
Another clone.
| 400 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:45:44am |
re: #395 darthstar
We got lucky that no one was hurt. The FBI tests on the bomb indicate that had it not fizzled, the bomb could have resulted in a significant loss of life and serious property damage to nearby structures.
| 401 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:47:04am |
re: #390 iossarian
1.) Not all fires spread
2.) I’m not too sure of the fire spreading because as soon as the fire department arrived, the neighbor asked them to put out the house fire.
| 402 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:48:02am |
re: #401 St. Louisville Cards
1.) Not all fires spread
2.) I’m not too sure of the fire spreading because as soon as the fire department arrived, the neighbor asked them to put out the house fire.
1.) And water isn’t wet.
| 403 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:48:40am |
re: #397 NJDhockeyfan
When have I ever said anything like that?
I never saw you say anything like that.
| 404 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:48:51am |
re: #395 darthstar
I would have thought you’d complain that President Obama was rewarding this guy with free housing, food, and medical care for life.
Life in prison is fine with me. I don’t wish murder upon every asshole who fails at terror. The system worked. Citizens reported a suspicious vehicle, police responded, nobody got hurt, and the bastard got caught.
I am. His life sentence should last as long as it takes to send him to Terre Haute and put a needle in his arm.
| 405 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:49:17am |
re: #391 jaunte
Maybe you missed the news reports.
[Link: www.wpsdlocal6.com…]
Obdicut keeps saying the fire department was already there and waited to put it out. Trying to take any financial responsibility out of the equation.
| 406 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:49:37am |
re: #403 reine.de.tout
I never saw you say anything like that.
Nah…he’s an angel. I was just being snarky.
| 407 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:51:01am |
re: #390 iossarian
And I’m not defending the what the fire department did, they very simply should have put out the fire and sent a bill to the homeowner.
| 408 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:51:26am |
re: #406 darthstar
Nah…he’s an angel. I was just being snarky.
well, no- he’s not an angel, I don’t always agree with him.
But he never said anything like that.
| 409 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:51:31am |
| 410 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:52:23am |
re: #403 reine.de.tout
I never saw you say anything like that.
Thank you. Some people on here need to grow up.
| 411 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:52:25am |
re: #404 RogueOne
They should send him to Augusta Prison, where he can get 72 Virginians.
| 412 |
darthstar Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:52:49am |
| 414 |
iossarian Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:53:16am |
re: #407 St. Louisville Cards
And I’m not defending the what the fire department did, they very simply should have put out the fire and sent a bill to the homeowner.
Perfect. Once you admit that there should always be coverage, just as with healthcare, the next step is to acknowledge that it is far more efficient to provide a preventative, blanket service paid for through taxation.
Thanks for playing.
| 415 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:55:11am |
re: #407 St. Louisville Cards
And I’m not defending the what the fire department did, they very simply should have put out the fire and sent a bill to the homeowner.
What are you some kind of lobbyist for the city of South Fulton? Friend of Mayor Crocker?
| 416 |
RogueOne Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:55:18am |
re: #411 darthstar
They should send him to Augusta Prison, where he can get 72 Virginians.
Winner! (Attempted mass murderers I still want dead though)
| 417 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:56:09am |
Problems plague BP oil spill compensation fund payouts.
In the rush to get compensation from BP after its massive oil spill, the $20 billion fund that the company created has been inundated with questionable documentation, inflated claims and in some cases, outright fraud — all slowing down the process for legitimate claims, the administrator of the program says.Claims have been bogged down by the sheer volume of requests for money — nearly 98,000 — as livelihoods have crumbled since the April 20 rig explosion that killed 11 workers and spewed more than 200 million gallons of oil. Confusion and frustration have become the only constants for desperate fishermen and business owners.
Feinberg has adjusted and adapted to the situation and will reevaluate some rejected claims (some were rejected initially for lack of proximity with water, even though the business relied on the Gulf for business).
| 418 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:57:08am |
re: #402 Varek Raith
1.) And water isn’t wet.
Oh, so all fires just spread? So before fire departments the earth must have just been constantly on fire.
| 419 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:58:10am |
| 421 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 5, 2010 9:59:43am |
Wingnut paradise with smaller government, no EPA…..
| 422 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:00:14am |
Sorry I’m not a member of liberal echo chamber that is LGF. Outside of defense issues, rarely if ever have I seen anything remotely conservative or libertarian.
Better living through state planning!!!!!!
| 423 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:01:10am |
re: #422 St. Louisville Cards
Why don’t you flounce and get it over with troll.
| 424 |
lawhawk Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:01:50am |
re: #422 St. Louisville Cards
Echo…. Echo…..
Nope… no echo chamber here.. Thanks for playing though.
| 427 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:02:55am |
re: #420 Gus 802
I didn’t bring it up today, I was responding to people spreading lies or miss information about the situation. I thought Charles always tried to defend his posters as reasonable down the middle, but I’ve seen mostly jumping the gun on all kinds of assumptions from people here. Again part of that blame goes to Charles for trying to posit this as a privatization issue in his original post.
| 428 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:03:01am |
| 429 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:06:40am |
re: #425 Slap
“Liberal Echo Chamber”???
Hoo-boy.
Yes, when multiple people here keep repeating the same misunderstanding of the situation because they haven’t bothered to read on the issue, I’d call that an echo chamber. Dismiss it if you’d like, but if walks like duck…
| 430 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:06:59am |
Worker Spoke of Jihad, Agency Says
A New Jersey man accused of joining Al Qaeda in Yemen spoke openly of militant views while working at American nuclear plants, according to a report by the inspector general of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that proposes tightening personnel security rules.
The man, Sharif Mobley, who is charged by Yemeni authorities with murdering a hospital guard during an escape attempt in March, said he told others in his labor union: “We are brothers in the union, but if a holy war comes, look out,” said the report from the inspector general, Hubert T. Bell.
Fellow nuclear plant workers said Mr. Mobley had referred to non-Muslims as “infidels” and had visited “unusual” Web sites on his personal computer, including one showing a mushroom cloud, the report said.
The report, prepared at the request of Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, recommended improving plant employee training on how to detect and report “behaviors associated with terrorist intent.” It proposed that regulatory commission officials should get direct access to a nuclear industry personnel database and suggested more frequent matching of employee names against terrorist watch lists.
| 431 |
Slap Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:08:57am |
Oh, wait, I forget:
1. Dispute “facts” in poster’s statement
2. Request clarification of poster’s point.
3. Provide factually-based, rational response to poster’s point.
4. Request clarification of poster’s point.
5. Ask poster why they fail to answer clarification questions.
6. Request clarification of poster’s point.
7. Request clarification of poster’s point.
8. Request clarification of poster’s point.
Yep, echo chamber, for sure. How could I miss it?/
| 432 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:09:33am |
re: #422 St. Louisville Cards
WTF does thinking the fire at Gene and Paulette Cranick’s house should have been put out by the FD have to do with being liberal or conservative? Sitting around looking at a house burn down is a conservative stance? I would think not. It’s an absurd position to think they should have stood down as they did all for a lousy 75 bucks. And if anything I highly doubt that the Cranick’s are even remotely liberal but instead rather conservative people. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Mr. Cranick sympathizes with the Tea Party.
But the irony is lost on you. Here we are siding with Cranick yet all you can think of saying is that we’re just a bunch of liberals in a so called echo chamber.
| 434 |
St. Louisville Cards Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:12:19am |
re: #432 Gus 802
The dozens of libertarian/tea party comments would be what I’m talking about.
| 435 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:12:58am |
re: #422 St. Louisville Cards
You may now piss off.
| 436 |
wrenchwench Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:13:41am |
| 437 |
McSpiff Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:14:32am |
re: #436 wrenchwench
Maybe where you are…
How are you?
Heh things are doing pretty good on the East-East Coast. How have you been?
| 438 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:14:45am |
re: #427 St. Louisville Cards
I didn’t bring it up today, I was responding to people spreading lies or miss information about the situation. I thought Charles always tried to defend his posters as reasonable down the middle, but I’ve seen mostly jumping the gun on all kinds of assumptions from people here. Again part of that blame goes to Charles for trying to posit this as a privatization issue in his original post.
If you look at my posts you’ll notice that I’m saying essentially the same thing you are. I think it’s unfair to shout at the firefighters because the folks in this area voted (repeatedly?) to refuse the fire department’s ability to levy taxes to provide coverage to the area. IMHO, the firefighters are caught between a rock (stupid, cheap residents) and a hard place (fires). Hopefully these folks will wake up and support the property tax increase once it comes up for a vote.
You’ll also notice that nobody got angry with me because I’m not using confrontational language to make the point.
| 439 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:14:54am |
The Dow is up 187 points to 10,939. Yowzaaaaa!
| 440 |
garhighway Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:15:14am |
re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar
And no one has the right to my money.
You are wrong on the law. The Constitution forbids the government (your government) taking of your property without due process of law. Period.
You have no absolute right to that or any other property. In fact, that position is absurd. For example, do you have an absolute right to:
1> A nuclear weapon
2> A giant pile of plutonium
3> An M1A1 tank
4> A vial of smallpox
5> A crack house
6> A pound of heroin
7> Counterfeit copies of Avatar
8> deduct from your taxes that part you believe are attributable to the war in Iraq
9> deduct from your taxes that part you believe are attributable to the cost of sex education in your local schools
10> deduct from your taxes that part that you think are simply too much
| 441 |
McSpiff Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:16:22am |
re: #440 garhighway
You are wrong on the law. The Constitution forbids the government (your government) taking of your property without due process of law. Period.
You have no absolute right to that or any other property. In fact, that position is absurd. For example, do you have an absolute right to:
1> A nuclear weapon
2> A giant pile of plutonium
3> An M1A1 tank
4> A vial of smallpox
5> A crack house
6> A pound of heroin
7> Counterfeit copies of Avatar
8> deduct from your taxes that part you believe are attributable to the war in Iraq
9> deduct from your taxes that part you believe are attributable to the cost of sex education in your local schools
10> deduct from your taxes that part that you think are simply too much
Your house (yay eminent domain!)
| 442 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:19:53am |
re: #432 Gus 802
WTF does thinking the fire at Gene and Paulette Cranick’s house should have been put out by the FD have to do with being liberal or conservative? Sitting around looking at a house burn down is a conservative stance? I would think not. It’s an absurd position to think they should have stood down as they did all for a lousy 75 bucks. And if anything I highly doubt that the Cranick’s are even remotely liberal but instead rather conservative people. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Mr. Cranick sympathizes with the Tea Party.
But the irony is lost on you. Here we are siding with Cranick yet all you can think of saying is that we’re just a bunch of liberals in a so called echo chamber.
LOL, yup, I’d say it’s a good bet that lots of folks in this area are Tea Party types—big believers in “maintaining freedoms” and “Constitutional government” until the rubber hits the road and their house is the one on fire. Or their Motrin has bacterial contamination. Or their eggs are tainted. Or their airplane crashes because it was fixed in a cheapo, unregulated shop. Etc, etc.
| 443 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:22:51am |
It really is astounding how cruel and inhuman right wingers are being about this fire department story. They actually are saying that this family deserved to have their house burned down and their pets killed.
Absolutely fucking unreal. I can’t even express how disgusted I am at this attitude. This is where the right wing has ended up.
| 444 |
wrenchwench Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:24:58am |
| 445 |
McSpiff Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:24:59am |
re: #443 Charles
It really is astounding how cruel and inhuman right wingers are being about this fire department story. They actually are saying that this family deserved to have their house burned down and their pets killed.
Absolutely fucking unreal. I can’t even express how disgusted I am at this attitude. This is where the right wing has ended up.
A group of religious fanatics who wish to undo social and scientific progress in order to regain God’s favor and return to some sort of Golden Age that never really existed. Where have I heard that line before?
| 446 |
wrenchwench Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:26:00am |
re: #437 McSpiff
Heh things are doing pretty good on the East-East Coast. How have you been?
Well, thank you.
Nice to see you back.
| 447 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:26:07am |
re: #405 St. Louisville Cards
Obdicut keeps saying the fire department was already there and waited to put it out. Trying to take any financial responsibility out of the equation.
Hair-splitting about the main issue at hand.
True, the firefighters were not initially on the scene watching the house burn and doing nothing. However, the department did *fail to respond* to multiple calls before the house itself caught fire.
And it appears once the fire spread and threatened a neighboring property they did respond and fight the fire on that property - while ignoring the house that was already burning.
I’d say Obdicut’s description is accurate enough. Failure to respond to repeated requests since they hadn’t paid. Then ignoring the burning house itself after (finally) responding to a neighbor’s field being threatened.
| 448 |
McSpiff Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:27:00am |
| 449 |
Gus Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:27:07am |
re: #444 wrenchwench
Pets are parasites on society.
/may basement cat stryk mee ded.
Pets are four legged Marxists and they’re both furry like Marx’s beard!
//Down with anti-Puppy Mill legislation!
/
| 450 |
funky chicken Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:28:58am |
re: #443 Charles
I’m not saying these people or their pets deserved to suffer. What I’m saying is that it’s unfair to damn the firefighters who have been put in a horrible situation by to people they seek to serve. It’s kinda like when people vote against school bond issues but then bitch and moan that schools are overcrowded, or underperforming, or located too far away. If people repeatedly vote down tiny property tax increases so they can have a robust fire department, it’s not the firefighters’ fault.
| 451 |
what Tue, Oct 5, 2010 10:59:29am |
r: #443 Chrls
Fr frm wht ws syng, fr frm wht mst cnsrvtvs ‘v rd hv sd. ctns hv cnsqncs, ths s jst n mmdt xmpl f hw ppl mk chcs nd dn’t wnt t dl wth th cnsqncs f ths chcs. Mst cnsrvtvs/lbrtrns r sng ths s n xmpl tht.
ls dssntng pnns tht dn’t strk th snsblts f th lbs hr r nwntd.
g hd nd dlt ths ccnt t.
| 452 |
Slap Tue, Oct 5, 2010 11:05:21am |
re: #451 what
Alas dissenting opinions that don’t stroke the sensibilities of the libs here are unwanted.
Sorry, sir, the shop is sold out of martyr cookies.
Allow me to refine: “dissenting opinions which are unsupported by facts or over-influenced by (whatever flavor) ideology without logical underpinning while accompanied by belligerent over-use of known cliche tactics of pseudo-discussion, and which are further undermined by aggressive refusal to elaborate when asked, are unwanted.”
We’re here to help.
| 453 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Oct 5, 2010 11:45:02am |
re: #405 St. Louisville Cards
You are entirely right that I was wrong in that I thought they responded and then didn’t do anything while the fire spread. Instead, they responded only after the fire had spread.
This doesn’t actually change any attribute; they still had to fight the fire eventually. They still could have, and should have, fought it before it reached the neighbor’s property. They could have even just figured it out it would spread that way, and gone and fought it on that basis, and justified the cost because of the neighbor’s subscription.
| 454 |
garhighway Tue, Oct 5, 2010 11:59:42am |
re: #451 what
Far from what I was saying…
That’s weird. You start your very first post with “Far from what I was saying…”.
As if you were resuming a dialogue here. When you weren’t.
What’s up with that?
| 455 |
jaunte Tue, Oct 5, 2010 12:03:57pm |
re: #443 Charles
It really is astounding how cruel and inhuman right wingers are being about this fire department story. They actually are saying that this family deserved to have their house burned down and their pets killed.
It’s especially notable in a thread with this quote at the head:
In my practice, I’ve seen how people have allowed their humanity to drain away. Only it happened slowly instead of all at once. They didn’t seem to mind…All of us - a little bit - we harden our hearts, grow callous. Only when we have to fight to stay human do we realize how precious it is to us, how dear.— Invasion of the Body Snatchers
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