New Arsenic-Based Life Form Discovered in Mono Lake

Science • Views: 30,052

NASA scientist Felisa Wolfe Simon and her team today announced an astonishing discovery, in the poisonous waters of California’s Mono Lake: a new type of bacteria that does not share the basic biological building blocks of any other organism on Earth. The new life form, dubbed GFAJ-1, has a biochemistry based on arsenic.

According to Wolfe Simon, they knew that “some microbes can breathe arsenic, but what we’ve found is a microbe doing something new—building parts of itself out of arsenic.” The implications of this discovery are enormous to our understanding of life itself and the possibility of finding organisms in other planets that don’t have to be like planet Earth. Like NASA’s Ed Weiler says: “The definition of life has just expanded.”

Talking at the NASA conference, Wolfe Simon said that the important thing here is that this breaks our ideas on how life can be created and grow, pointing out that scientists will now be looking for new types of organisms and metabolism that not only uses arsenic, but other elements as well. She says that she’s working on a few possibilities herself.

NASA’s geobiologist Pamela Conrad thinks that the discovery is huge and “phenomenal,” comparing it to the Star Trek episode in which the Enterprise crew finds Horta, a silicon-based alien life form that can’t be detected with tricorders because it wasn’t carbon-based. It’s like saying that we may be looking for new life in the wrong places with the wrong methods. Indeed, NASA tweeted that this discovery “will change how we search for life elsewhere in the Universe.”

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209 comments
1 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:34:34pm

This is really awesome. It’s groundbreaking. This is one of the most important scientific moments of the 21st century.

2 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:34:35pm

If we ever find higher life elsewhere in the universe, I would bet large sums it will be so deeply weird from our perspective we may not even recognize it as life, at first.

Carbon and water is just one of many many possibilities.

3 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:36:07pm

Aliens on earth. Kinda. Paralleled evolution? Panspermia?

4 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:36:15pm

re: #2 Fozzie Bear

If we ever find higher life elsewhere in the universe, I would bet large sums it will be so deeply weird from our perspective we may not even recognize it as life, at first.

Carbon and water is just one of many many possibilities.

As long as they are hot.
/

This is a stupendously big deal. Shame most won’t realize that.

5 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:36:35pm

Were they on the Ark?

6 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:37:13pm

GFAJ- 1 ???
Was hoping for a name with “Lace” in it……..
Arsenic & Lace….?
Never mind..I’ll go now…….

7 EdDantes  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:38:26pm

re: #6 reloadingisnotahobby

My favorite comedy of all time :)

8 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:38:49pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Were they on the Ark?

Excellent question.
How did Noah transport stuff like Ebola???

9 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:39:35pm

The researchers actually started with bacteria that normally utilized phosphorus, and gradually weaned them from the phosphorus and switched them to arsenic.

Scientists said Thursday that they had trained a bacterium to eat and grow on a diet of arsenic, in place of phosphorus — one of six elements considered essential for life — opening up the possibility that organisms could exist elsewhere in the universe or even here on Earth using biochemical powers we have not yet dared to dream about.

The bacterium, scraped from the bottom of Mono Lake in California and grown for months in a lab mixture containing arsenic, gradually swapped out atoms of phosphorus in its little body for atoms of arsenic.

So what does this mean? This:

While nature has been able to engineer substitutes for some of the other elements that exist in trace amounts for specialized purposes — like iron to carry oxygen — until now there has been no substitute for the basic six elements. Now, scientists say, these results will stimulate a lot of work on what other chemical replacements might be possible. The most fabled, much loved by science fiction authors but not ever established, is the substitution of silicon for carbon.

Phosphorus chains form the backbone of DNA and its chemical bonds, particularly in a molecule known as adenosine triphosphate, the principal means by which biological creatures store energy. “It’s like a little battery that carries chemical energy within cells,” said Dr. Scharf. So important are these “batteries,” Dr. Scharf said, that the temperature at which they break down, about 160 Celsius (320 Fahrenheit), is considered the high-temperature limit for life.

It may also spur additional medical advances on alternative treatment paths, and a fundamental understanding of basic biological processes.

Fascinating stuff - and it may give insight into the kinds of life we might find on other space objects.

10 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:39:44pm

O_O

11 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:41:18pm

The Horta says “NO KILL !”
en.wikipedia.org

12 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:42:10pm

Stupid Bacteria….everyone knows Arsenic is Poisonous!
/

13 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:42:35pm

You can say what you want about the nutty politics around science but in the end new scientific discoveries are the coolist thing ever…..better than sex.

14 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:43:09pm

re: #13 Big Steve

You can say what you want about the nutty politics around science but in the end new scientific discoveries are the coolist thing ever…better than sex.

Why don’t you marry it then! /

15 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:44:42pm

Always liked this theory.. The building blocks are out there.

en.wikipedia.org

16 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:44:49pm

Foxgrumbler:

And how much did this landmark search cost???
foxnewsinsider.com
17 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:45:02pm

quick to the culture war cave to plot a way to defund NASA!

//

18 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:45:10pm

What will the Sierra Club say….
With out years of reckless Gold Mining in the Sierra Nevada this might
never have happened!!/

19 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:45:10pm

re: #8 Varek Raith

Excellent question.
How did Noah transport stuff like Ebola???

Dinosaurs.

20 EdDantes  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:45:26pm

re: #9 lawhawk

Life will find a way-Dr. Ian Malcom

21 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:45:48pm

Incidentally arsenic is in the same column on the periodic table as nitrogen and phosphorus so given the similar valence states not surprising that they were predicting it could be a life atom.

22 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:46:35pm

re: #9 lawhawk

Well, the organisms had to originally be able to utilize arsenic; it’s not that they evolved this ability in the lab. So they started with organisms that prefer to use phosphorus, but are capable of using arsenic— and that’s the monumental discovery.

23 Big Steve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:47:33pm

so we now have Arsine-Horta!

24 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:49:08pm

re: #9 lawhawk

The researchers actually started with bacteria that normally utilized phosphorus, and gradually weaned them from the phosphorus and switched them to arsenic.

The talk of a “Shadow biosphere” with a separate tree of life appears to simply be a preconceived notion the researcher went into the project with. It’s a very interesting discovery, but is being way over-hyped.

25 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:49:11pm

Maybe it now makes sense to presume life is out there on some planets, comets, & dust rather than assuming it is not. “Likely present until proven otherwise.”

26 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:50:16pm

re: #16 jaunte

Foxgrumbler:

And a fair number of comments making fun of California and NASA.

Asshats.

27 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:51:21pm

re: #16 jaunte

Foxgrumbler:

Figures.
Megan Kelly on FoxNews pulled away from the conference because she didn’t get it.

28 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:51:36pm

re: #24 JeffFX

It’s really not being overhyped. Why do you think it is?

29 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:51:38pm

re: #25 Rightwingconspirator

Maybe it now makes sense to presume life is out there on some planets, comets, & dust rather than assuming it is not. “Likely present until proven otherwise.”

That’s been the assumption since we realized how large the universe is. Life on other planets: almost certainly, Intelligent life: likely, aliens who visit us: totally crackpot due to the distances involved.

30 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:51:44pm

re: #25 Rightwingconspirator

Maybe it now makes sense to presume life is out there on some planets, comets, & dust rather than assuming it is not. “Likely present until proven otherwise.”

I take our lack of contact with alien civilizations as proof that intelligent life does exist in the universe.
/

31 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:52:37pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

Figures.
Megan Kelly on FoxNews pulled away from the conference because she didn’t get it.

Next on Foxnews, “Fucking Magnets: How do they work?”

32 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:53:09pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

.SPEAK FOR YOURSELF DUDE……!!
lol

33 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:54:11pm

re: #28 Obdicut

It’s really not being overhyped. Why do you think it is?

It really is, though it may be just the media.
check this out:
Second Genesis on Earth?
washingtonpost.com

34 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:55:10pm

re: #33 JeffFX

Peter gabriel joined the band again?

35 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:55:22pm

If you’ve never been to Mono Lake you should see it!
Very strange and beautiful place!

Don’t drive to close to the water though…………..
You’ll be days getting a tow truck!

36 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:56:13pm

re: #33 JeffFX

What’s huge about this is that you could apply the same principle to any number of other elemental transpositions. it means the search for life could yield fruit in MANY more places than we thought. It means life is probably much more common than we think.

It’s hard to overhype this. this is huge.

37 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:57:02pm

re: #34 WindUpBird

Peter gabriel joined the band again?

If only. Give Phil Collins drums, and take the mic away!

38 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:57:18pm

re: #33 JeffFX

The way that the media is hyping it is wrong, of course, since science reporting sucks.

But in terms of its importance to biology, this is absolutely freaking huge. I can’t think of a discovery since the discovery of the structure of DNA that is equivalent to it.

39 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:00:11pm

re: #37 JeffFX

If only. Give Phil Collins drums, and take the mic away!

haha I do actually like the Phil Collins fronted stuff too :D

40 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:00:15pm

Step aside CHNOPS, here comes CHNOAsS!

41 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:00:32pm

re: #36 Fozzie Bear

What’s huge about this is that you could apply the same principle to any number of other elemental transpositions. it means the search for life could yield fruit in MANY more places than we thought. It means life is probably much more common than we think.

It’s hard to overhype this. this is huge.

If this life had evolved in parallel from a different self-replicator as the shadow biosphere hypothesis states, this would be a lot bigger since it would mean that life started at least twice here, indicating it’s likely VERY common. Instead it’s bacteria related to us that is now able to adapt to work on a different basis. It’s still a huge deal, just not what is being claimed in some places.

42 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:01:16pm

re: #40 Fozzie Bear

That needs a Geek Humor warning.

Image: r2d2-holiday-card-opt.jpg

43 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:01:18pm

re: #41 JeffFX

Well, yeah, there are going to be a lot of people that miss the point, but that’s inevitable.

44 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:01:52pm

re: #42 Obdicut

That needs a Geek Humor warning.

Image: r2d2-holiday-card-opt.jpg

LOLWTF

45 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:04:24pm

re: #38 Obdicut

The way that the media is hyping it is wrong, of course, since science reporting sucks.

But in terms of its importance to biology, this is absolutely freaking huge. I can’t think of a discovery since the discovery of the structure of DNA that is equivalent to it.

It tells us earth life is even more adaptable than we thought, but we keep learning that over and over again as more extremophiles are found around volcanic vents and such.

46 I Am Kreniigh!  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:04:49pm

Best comment from the Gizmodo discussion:

We must not tolerate this arsenic deviant. Our society is based on phosphorous DNA, it always has been, and it always will be. If we allow this arsenic abomination to exist, then what will come next? Silicon? Unobtanium? We must fight for our traditional values, and the rights of phosphorous lifeforms.

Additionally, the research clearly shows the bacteria CHOOSES arsenic, when it can clearly use phosphorous. It is a deviant by CHOICE.

Unite with me brothers and sisters, and write your congressmen demanding a vote on the matter.

47 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:06:40pm

re: #46 Kreniigh

Best comment from the Gizmodo discussion:

The depressing thing is that I can see the GOP voting against this kind of research.

48 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:07:33pm

Honestly, we don’t know that life didn’t evolve more than once here. What happened 3.5 billion years ago is anybody’s guess. Perhaps there were competing biological paradigms, proto-bacteria using different basic designs. Who the hell knows.

I guess the part that makes it cool, is maybe you don’t need carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulphur. Maybe you just need atoms to play the “roles” these elements play. That would make a huge difference in where we look for life elsewhere.

It’s inevitable that life exists elsewhere. It’s ridiculously unlikely for it not to. this just means maybe its not so specific about conditions as we thought.

49 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:09:04pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

Honestly, we don’t know that life didn’t evolve more than once here. What happened 3.5 billion years ago is anybody’s guess. Perhaps there were competing biological paradigms, proto-bacteria using different basic designs. Who the hell knows.

I guess the part that makes it cool, is maybe you don’t need carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulphur. Maybe you just need atoms to play the “roles” these elements play. That would make a huge difference in where we look for life elsewhere.

It’s inevitable that life exists elsewhere. It’s ridiculously unlikely for it not to. this just means maybe its not so specific about conditions as we thought.

Aint no mention of protobacterial arsenic based lifeforms in the Bible!

50 blueraven  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:09:53pm

re: #16 jaunte

Foxgrumbler:

Low life form. Good grief.

C’mon! This is very exciting news!

51 SpaceJesus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:12:30pm

is it friend or foe?

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:14:23pm

re: #51 SpaceJesus

is it friend or foe?

It just wants some more arsenic.

53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:14:34pm

re: #43 Fozzie Bear

Hell, the idea that life might have started more than once has nothing to do with whether or not life can have a different structure, like this; obviously if it can, there’s more opportunity, but even if it wsa constrained to CHNOPS, there could have been multiple ‘genesis’ moments.

54 SpaceJesus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:15:10pm

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist


does it like to party?

55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:15:27pm

re: #45 JeffFX

This goes well beyond ordinary adaptation, though. It’s more basic.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:18:35pm

re: #54 SpaceJesus

does it like to party?

Have you got arsenic?

57 JeffFX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:19:06pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

Honestly, we don’t know that life didn’t evolve more than once here. What happened 3.5 billion years ago is anybody’s guess.

Yep, less capable critters would likely have been out-competed and wiped out.

re: #49 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Aint no mention of protobacterial arsenic based lifeforms in the Bible!

LMAO…awesome.

58 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:19:26pm

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

Have you got arsenic?

No, but I do have some old lace around here somewhere.

59 Summer Seale  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:19:30pm

Imagine if we had evolved into arsenic and not phosphorus users.

Then Lady Astor would have had to threaten Winston Churchill with putting phosphorus in his tea, and not arsenic.

Instead of threatening to kill him, she would have threatened to make him smell like garlic and glow in the dark.

It would have changed everything; everything. =)

60 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:21:26pm

re: #2 Fozzie Bear

If we ever find higher life elsewhere in the universe, I would bet large sums it will be so deeply weird from our perspective we may not even recognize it as life, at first.

Carbon and water is just one of many many possibilities.

And that’s news? Look at Dennis Kucinich.

61 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:22:10pm

re: #59 Summer

you’re blowing my mind

62 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:24:42pm
To be perfectly frank, we’ve surveyed over three hundred worlds and no one’s ever reported a creature which, using your words…(read from Ripley’s statement) …’gestates in a living human host’ and has ‘concentrated molecular acid arsenic for blood.’

Aliens, first draft, May 1985.

63 freetoken  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:27:21pm

Yesterday I mentioned that arsenic using bacteria had been news a few years ago, but I didn’t have a reference. With today’s news the links have been dug up on the net, e.g. from 2008:

newscientist.com

If I understand today’s news correctly, the really big thing is the discovery that the target bacteria can actually incorporate As into their nucleic acids:

Life is mostly composed of the elements carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur, and phosphorus. Although these six elements make up nucleic acids, proteins, and lipids and thus the bulk of living matter, it is theoretically possible that some other elements in the periodic table could serve the same functions. Here, we describe a bacterium, strain GFAJ-1 of the Halomonadaceae, isolated from Mono Lake, California, which substitutes arsenic for phosphorus to sustain its growth. Our data show evidence for arsenate in macromolecules that normally contain phosphate, most notably nucleic acids and proteins. Exchange of one of the major bioelements may have profound evolutionary and geochemical significance.

One wonders if a type of RNA could be entirely built with an arsenic compound instead of a phosphate group.

64 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:27:45pm

What room did they put these nasty little buggers in on the Ark?

65 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:32:43pm

Former Bush official: GOP ‘beyond redemption’

John C. Danforth made the comment while discussing a possible tea party challenge to Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a long-serving moderate whose stances against some major GOP positions have reportedly made him the target of Republican ideologues.

“If Dick Lugar, having served five terms in the US Senate and being the most respected person in the Senate and the leading authority on foreign policy, is seriously challenged by anybody in the Republican Party, we have gone so far overboard that we are beyond redemption,” Danforth said, as quoted in the New York Times.

Lugar has found himself at odds with many Republicans over his support for the START nuclear missile treaty with Russia, as well as his support for the DREAM Act, which would create a path to citizenship for illegal immigrant youth who complete an education program and stay out of legal trouble.

A day after the mid-term elections this month, Red State’s Erick Ericksson added Lugar to a list of Republican senators who are ripe for a tea party challenge in 2012.

Danforth’s remark to the Times is not the first time the former Missouri senator, who served from 1976 to 1995, has gone up against the Republican grassroots. In a 2005 New York Times commentary, he criticized the GOP for “transform[ing] our party into the political arm of conservative Christians.”

The problem is not with people or churches that are politically active. It is with a party that has gone so far in adopting a sectarian agenda that it has become the political extension of a religious movement.

When government becomes the means of carrying out a religious program, it raises obvious questions under the First Amendment. But even in the absence of constitutional issues, a political party should resist identification with a religious movement. While religions are free to advocate for their own sectarian causes, the work of government and those who engage in it is to hold together as one people a very diverse country.

66 APox  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:33:29pm

Is it edible? Let’s get Anthony Bourdain in there for some high class eating!

67 Summer Seale  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:33:57pm

re: #61 WindUpBird

you’re blowing my mind

I’ve been told that I’m pretty good at blowing stuff.

‘nite. =)

68 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:33:58pm

after extensive research and study of various forms of life, we can say, without reservation, there is no intelligent life in Los Ranchos De Albuquerque….but to our surprise we have discovered a previously unknown fungi that is remarkably humanoid

69 freetoken  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:34:40pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

Honestly, we don’t know that life didn’t evolve more than once here. What happened 3.5 billion years ago is anybody’s guess. Perhaps there were competing biological paradigms, proto-bacteria using different basic designs. Who the hell knows.

I guess the part that makes it cool, is maybe you don’t need carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulphur. Maybe you just need atoms to play the “roles” these elements play. That would make a huge difference in where we look for life elsewhere.

It’s inevitable that life exists elsewhere. It’s ridiculously unlikely for it not to. this just means maybe its not so specific about conditions as we thought.

Proving a negative like that is not something that can be done without testing every possible case in the set, something we can’t do here.

As for your second point - As is in the same column of the periodic table as Phosphorus, indicating As will act similarly to P chemically. Same relationship of Silicon to Carbon, which is why Sci-Fi writers often spin tales of silicon based life forms.

On you last point - this is why the Kepler satellite is so exciting - we will soon have clear evidence of Earth-sized rocky planets in the habitable ( = liquid water) zone of many stars. We will have evidence that our galaxy alone probably has billion of planets existing in habitable zones.

70 SpaceJesus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:34:48pm

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist


I don’t think so. I do have some Four Loko though, probably similar

71 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:35:55pm

I’m easily impressed by yeast so this stuff really blows my mind.

Yeast gave us bread, beer, scotch, and tequila. This Mono Lake Alien wannabe bacteria got nothing on that.

72 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:36:32pm

re: #71 BigPapa

I’m easily impressed by yeast so this stuff really blows my mind.

Yeast gave us bread, beer, scotch, and tequila. This Mono Lake Alien wannabe bacteria got nothing on that.

Yet.

73 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:36:50pm

re: #69 freetoken

Proving a negative like that is not something that can be done without testing every possible case in the set, something we can’t do here.

As for your second point - As is in the same column of the periodic table as Phosphorus, indicating As will act similarly to P chemically. Same relationship of Silicon to Carbon, which is why Sci-Fi writers often spin tales of silicon based life forms.

On you last point - this is why the Kepler satellite is so exciting - we will soon have clear evidence of Earth-sized rocky planets in the habitable ( = liquid water) zone of many stars. We will have evidence that our galaxy alone probably has billion of planets existing in habitable zones.

when the Antarctic ice melts, it will blow our minds at the remnants of a previous civilization…bet me

74 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:38:32pm

re: #73 albusteve

when the Antarctic ice melts, it will blow our minds at the remnants of a previous civilization…bet me

Pff, we’ll all be dead once the remaining cells thaw out and infect the rest of us.

Either that or the Shoggoths will be set free.

75 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:38:41pm

re: #73 albusteve

one whose buildings were of a most obscene form of non-euclidian geometry and cyclopian architecture?

76 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:38:48pm

re: #71 BigPapa

I’m easily impressed by yeast so this stuff really blows my mind.

Yeast gave us bread, beer, scotch, and tequila. This Mono Lake Alien wannabe bacteria got nothing on that.

and the lowly potato gave us potato juice…a gift from the spirits of inebrie

77 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:38:56pm

re: #73 albusteve

when the Antarctic ice melts, it will blow our minds at the remnants of a previous civilization…bet me

When the ice melts, we might be the remnants of a previous civilization.

78 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:39:43pm

re: #76 albusteve

and the lowly potato gave us potato juice…a gift from the spirits of inebrie

not to worry, I made that up

79 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:40:02pm

bad fu

80 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:41:07pm

re: #78 albusteve

not to worry, I made that up

My people call that “potheen”.

81 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:41:15pm

seriously….what’s under there?

82 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:41:38pm

CONGRESS VOTES TO GO FUCK ITSELF

The bipartisan bill, which passed unanimously in the House and the Senate, came about after members of both parties — frustrated by endless bickering and obduracy – polled constituents and asked what their top priority was.

“We explained to the voters what needed to be done to fix this country, then we told them there was no way we were going to do those things,” said GOP House leader John Boehner. “Their answer was clear: ‘In that case, go fuck yourselves.’”

83 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:43:31pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Former Bush official: GOP ‘beyond redemption’

And this is from one of the most devout Christians to be found with a track record in government.

84 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:44:00pm

re: #29 JeffFX

Timescale too-There may have been smart aliens alive just a few light years away, but separated by millions or billions of years. And now long gone will just a nebula remaining. Or conversely it’s fair to assume we will not be the last brainy toolmakers.

The next race from earth in a few million years may be the brightest yet. I’d bet a great dinner that if we examined a few hundred ice pockets on mars and the outer moons we’d find extremophile life.

85 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:44:12pm

re: #83 lostlakehiker

And this is from one of the most devout Christians to be found with a track record in government.

who is he to say?….alot of fartage

86 tigger2005  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:45:25pm

When the arsenic-things develop opposable thumbs, it will be time to panic.

87 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:46:28pm

re: #48 Fozzie Bear

Honestly, we don’t know that life didn’t evolve more than once here. What happened 3.5 billion years ago is anybody’s guess. Perhaps there were competing biological paradigms, proto-bacteria using different basic designs. Who the hell knows.

I guess the part that makes it cool, is maybe you don’t need carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulphur. Maybe you just need atoms to play the “roles” these elements play. That would make a huge difference in where we look for life elsewhere.

It’s inevitable that life exists elsewhere. It’s ridiculously unlikely for it not to. this just means maybe its not so specific about conditions as we thought.

This just goes to make the Mars asteroid, the one with the improbably aligned, improbably pure, improbably uniform magnetite crystals, that much more convincing as evidence of life having existed there. Chemistry on Mars all wrong? Not so fast.

88 palomino  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:47:21pm

re: #83 lostlakehiker

And this is from one of the most devout Christians to be found with a track record in government.

Funny how politicians become all rational once the hammer of party discipline no longer hangs over their head.

89 tigger2005  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:47:57pm

re: #67 Summer

I’ve been told that I’m pretty good at blowing stuff.

‘nite. =)

For a good time, call Summer?

90 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:49:25pm

re: #88 palomino

Funny how politicians become all rational once the hammer of party discipline no longer hangs over their head.

I honestly believe the Republican Red Brigade cannot sustain power over the GOP for the long run, and that cooler heads will prevail….if not we are all fucked

91 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:50:25pm

OT - excuse me for a second while I freak out about the pre-1942 flag salute used during the Pledge of Allegiance:

Swearing of the pledge is accompanied by a salute. An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, President Franklin D. Roosevelt instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute. Removal of the Bellamy salute occurred on December 22, 1942, when Congress amended the Flag Code language first passed into law on June 22, 1942

O_o
Image: Pledge_salue.jpg
Image: Bellamy_salute_1.jpg

92 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:50:38pm

Too much yeast by-product and I get irreducible complacency.

93 freetoken  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:50:57pm

re: #86 tigger2005

When the arsenic-things develop opposable thumbs, it will be time to panic.

Speaking of which, in that latest issue of Science there is another bio article that is fascinating and perhaps revolutionary in its own right. Summarized here:

The scientists found that microorganisms of different species, in this case two Geobacter species, can form direct electrical connections and pass an electric current from one microbe to the other. By cooperating in this way the two microbes can consume food that neither of them could use on their own.

The cell aggregates or “great balls of evolution” that Summers evolved in the laboratory look very much like those found in nature which are involved in degrading organic matter into the greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide and methane. […]

Others can be found consuming methane from vents at the bottom of the ocean. In both cases, investigators have been puzzled for years about how these aggregates function […]

As Lovley, the principal investestigator, explains, “We placed the microbes under conditions in which they had to work together in order to survive and grow using the alcohol we gave them as an energy source. They’re the ultimate drinking buddies, collaborating to consume ethanol.” With support from the Genomic Science Program of the U.S. Department of Energy, his lab has been exploiting the ability of microorganisms to adapt to novel conditions and developing microbes for practical applications.

It’s been known since the 1960s that microorganisms can indirectly exchange electrons by the process known as interspecies hydrogen transfer. In it, one microbe produces hydrogen that another microbe then consumes. It was experiments carried out by doctoral candidate Summers to explore this phenomenon further that led to discovery of the new direct transfer process.

To begin, Summers put two species of Geobacter together under conditions expected to favor hydrogen-sharing interactions. At first, the cells did cooperate to consume the alcohol by sharing hydrogen. Over time, they also started clumping together and transforming the culture from one of dispersed microscopic cells, invisible to the naked eye, to a collection of complex multi-cellular structures, millimeters in diameter.

Resisting her lab mates’ urgings to shake the cultures and break up the unexpected cell clumps, Summers continued to allow the spheres to grow. Now they were exhibiting a deep red color due to the presence of iron-containing proteins known as cytochromes. When observed with an electron microscope, they had clearly developed an intricate structure with a series of channels, presumably to help nutrients enter. They had also established completely new electric connections that permitted them to directly share electrons.

“The direct electron transfer is much more efficient and they consume alcohol much faster this way,” Summers points out. Sequencing the DNA in the big red balls revealed the secret to this electrical connection: a mutation in one of the Geobacter species had caused it to make much more of a cytochrome known as OmcS. Previous studies in Lovely’s lab had shown that OmcS lines up along Geobacter’s electrically conductive filaments known as microbial nanowires.

“This turn of events suggested that the cytochrome was key to the electrical connection between the cells” says Summers. […]

94 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:51:14pm

re: #90 albusteve

I honestly believe the Republican Red Brigade cannot sustain power over the GOP for the long run, and that cooler heads will prevail…if not we are all fucked

Don’t know if redemption will come from within the GOP or not, but I need to believe that the voters will quickly get sick of this crap.

95 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:51:37pm

By the way, I thought I’d let some of our regular commenters know that one of the things “ChenZhen” (real name: Bret Elert) did with his “The Blue Boy” sock puppet account was to search through comments, with some particular users as targets — especially people who’ve been around at LGF for a longer time. So if you find some old comments of yours posted somewhere by this stalker creep, this is how he got them.

96 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:52:17pm

re: #59 Summer

Our new “green” (?) laundry detergent would be arsenic free instead of phosphorous free? I guess the Libertarian advocates would be screaming about chlorine instead of flouride in our drinking water.

97 sillyallah  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:52:35pm

This is just super cool stuff. Especially incredible that the experiment was successful with life that already exists on Earth

98 freetoken  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:53:41pm

I’m waiting for a GOP poll to find out if feeding alcohol to bacteria using government funding is fraudulent and wasteful, or whether it is just a sin.

99 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:55:24pm

Well, what do you know! Looks like Bret Elert decided to do a little memory holing of his own. He deleted his name and location (Maple Grove, Minnesota) from the page where I discovered it.

cougardb.com

100 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:55:27pm

Ugh. I’m out.

101 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:59:36pm

re: #99 Charles
You mean this internet stalker “rebel” lives in a moderately priced tract castle? There’s something so not rebel-y about that.

102 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:02:49pm

“Scrooged” is on AMC tonight!Youtube Video

103 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:03:57pm

re: #101 theheat

You mean this internet stalker “rebel” lives in a moderately priced tract castle? There’s something so not rebel-y about that.

I guess it’s a little less amusing to this weasel when someone starts digging into his background.

104 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:04:46pm

re: #95 Charles

By the way, I thought I’d let some of our regular commenters know that one of the things “ChenZhen” (real name: Bret Elert) did last Tuesday with his “The Blue Boy” sock puppet account was to search through comments, with some particular users as targets — especially people who’ve been around at LGF for a longer time. So if you find some old comments of yours posted somewhere by this stalker creep, this is how he got them.

Well, fuck that fucking fucker. He can lick my balls.

I hope he can come back by and cherry pick that comment.

105 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:05:24pm

re: #99 Charles

I’m not receiving emails of comments from Pages I subscribed to. I tried changing the address I’m using—no difference. And I emailed you about it, but now I don’t know if I could get an email back if you were to send one.

106 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:05:29pm

re: #103 Charles

I guess it’s a little less amusing to this weasel when someone starts digging into his background.

the best defense is a good offense….some say anyhow

107 freetoken  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:06:12pm

Meanwhile, down in Cancun:


Japan stands firm on Kyoto in Cancun

Japan has stirred the climate negotiations taking place in Cancun, Mexico, at the onset with its blunt declaration that it would not agree to extend the Kyoto Protocol beyond 2012.

Japan’s chief cabinet secretary, Yoshito Sengoku, told reporters Monday in Cancun that Tokyo would “sternly oppose debate for extending the Kyoto Protocol into a second phase which is unfair and ineffective.”

The Kyoto Protocol, the first phase of which expires in 2012, was adopted in 1997.

As of July 2010, 191 nations had ratified the protocol, which commits 37 industrialized countries to cut emissions by an average of 5 percent of 1990 levels by 2012. China and the United States, however, are not bound by the treaty, even though they have the highest rates of emissions.

[…]

It’s not new, as Japan has been saying this for almost a year. But it seems that no one believed them. I watched the Japanese presser from yesterday and on reporter acted surprised that the Japanese weren’t more subtle, given that is their usual nature. I think that reporter missed the point - Japan has been very subtle over this issue, for many years, but no one paid attention to them. So now as the deadline approaches they simply are speaking bluntly. Japan doesn’t want to be held to an agreement in which their two largest trading partners (China, US) are not participating.

108 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:06:55pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

I’m not receiving emails of comments from Pages I subscribed to. I tried changing the address I’m using—no difference. And I emailed you about it, but now I don’t know if I could get an email back if you were to send one.

I’ll check into that.

109 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:07:11pm

re: #103 Charles

I find the stalkers and their stalking just plain fucking creepy. And dangerous.

110 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:08:31pm

re: #109 theheat

Spoken as the former real-life victim of a real-life stalker. /added

111 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:10:34pm

re: #110 theheat

Internet stalker got after you in the real world? That sure sucks.

112 freetoken  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:12:01pm

Finally, back in cold Iowa:

Palin Makes Second Iowa Book-Signing Stop

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has visited Iowa for the second time in a week to promote her latest book.
Palin signed more than 1,000 copies of her book, “America By Heart: Reflections on Family, Faith and Flag,” at a Wal-Mart store in Spirit Lake Thursday. The Des Moines Register reports that like Palin’s other booksignings, the event was tightly controlled.

The media was allowed to take pictures but told not to ask questions.

Palin was at a bookstore in West Des Moines last week.
Palin sat in a backroom, where country music played while she made small talk with fans who lined up to meet her.

[…]

Gee, why would anyone visit Iowa so frequently at this time of year? All I can think of is that Esther must really love Hawkeye football… or maybe she likes strolling among the stover in the corn fields?

113 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:12:12pm

re: #111 Rightwingconspirator

No, a real life violent stalker, with a history of stalking before me.

114 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:14:40pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

I’m not receiving emails of comments from Pages I subscribed to. I tried changing the address I’m using—no difference. And I emailed you about it, but now I don’t know if I could get an email back if you were to send one.

Welp, just tested it and it worked over here. Maybe it’s getting caught by a spam filter or something?

115 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:15:53pm

re: #114 Charles

Welp, just tested it and it worked over here. Maybe it’s getting caught by a spam filter or something?

I looked. I’ll look some more, and try other addresses.

Thanks.

116 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:16:03pm

re: #113 theheat

That is damn dangerous. In jail now, or is that over with at least?
“But for the grace of god” any of us could have that problem.

117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:18:19pm

re: #109 theheat

I find the stalkers and their stalking just plain fucking creepy. And dangerous.

Well, a lot of them were banned for abusive or racist comments, so it’s sort of a group of creepy haters by definition

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:19:50pm

re: #95 Charles

it must be great to have so much free time that you can afford to spend hours combing through old posts for vindictive effect

what boring people

119 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:20:22pm

re: #67 Summer

I’ve been told that I’m pretty good at blowing stuff.

‘nite. =)

best comment

120 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:21:24pm

re: #116 Rightwingconspirator

Was in jail, plea bargained to avoid prison, now free as a jaybird to stalk other people. Stuff like this changes your perception about stalker / victim role playing. It’s not a game. It’s some sick, dangerous, shit, and I have no tolerance for it.

121 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:22:12pm

re: #117 WindUpBird

‘net stalking is one thing, real world stuff gets bloody & harsh fast. At the mildest we get Sean Penn and the Paparazzi. At worst we get those estranged boyfriend murders. I just shudder to contemplate that sort of thing.

122 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:23:37pm

re: #95 Charles

By the way, I thought I’d let some of our regular commenters know that one of the things “ChenZhen” (real name: Bret Elert) did last Tuesday with his “The Blue Boy” sock puppet account was to search through comments, with some particular users as targets — especially people who’ve been around at LGF for a longer time. So if you find some old comments of yours posted somewhere by this stalker creep, this is how he got them.

Yeah, looks like I’m one of them. Called me a “brown-noser who used to be a conservative” for trashing Huckabee last September. Fuck the weasel with a red-hot poker, and thanks for outing him. I guess he would say the same about Barry Goldwater, who wouldn’t have liked the current brand of alleged “conservatism” a bit.

123 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:23:53pm

re: #67 Summer

I’ve been told that I’m pretty good at blowing stuff.

‘nite. =)


re: #119 WindUpBird

best comment

Tongue in cheek so to speak.

124 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:25:56pm

re: #123 Rightwingconspirator

re: #119 WindUpBird


Tongue in cheek so to speak.

Thats not a tongue.

125 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:26:52pm

re: #114 Charles

My Yahoo address works. I wonder what’s up with my local ISP.

Now Preview is busted.

126 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:27:14pm

re: #122 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, looks like I’m one of them. Called me a “brown-noser who used to be a conservative” for trashing Huckabee last September. Fuck the weasel with a red-hot poker, and thanks for outing him. I guess he would say the same about Barry Goldwater, who wouldn’t have liked the current brand of alleged “conservatism” a bit.

Hello fellow Hypocritical Bootlicker. Looks like if we ever need a place to live, we’ve already set up shop in their heads.

Pity about the neighborhood though.

127 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:28:05pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

My Yahoo address works. I wonder what’s up with my local ISP.

Now Preview is busted.

And I have the dreaded page-reload-upon-posting. I’ve never had that before. Time to go clean some caches and stuff….

128 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:28:09pm

Re: stalkerati

Besides, if I want to abandon conservatism and announce that I have founded a new branch of the SEIU Gay Communist Hugo/Che Fan Club of Occupied Aztlan (with funding from George Soros), what is it to them? I haven’t sworn any oath of obedience unto death to the GOP after all.

129 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:29:33pm

re: #110 theheat

Spoken as the former real-life victim of a real-life stalker. /added

That happened to me once, in retrospect I probably should have paid the two dollars.

130 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:32:37pm

re: #128 Shiplord Kirel

I think the obsessive preoccupation and mental stalking itself releases endorphins in their brain. It wouldn’t matter if you worshiped at the altar of Che, or whomever, they’re addicted to the stalking. It’s like fingernail biters, self-cutters, etc. - it’s a weird addiction.

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:33:19pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

you win

132 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:33:30pm

re: #122 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, looks like I’m one of them. Called me a “brown-noser who used to be a conservative” for trashing Huckabee last September. Fuck the weasel with a red-hot poker, and thanks for outing him. I guess he would say the same about Barry Goldwater, who wouldn’t have liked the current brand of alleged “conservatism” a bit.

And they also quilky reverted back to supporting neo fascists like the EDL, Vlaams Belang and Serbian war criminals. After all the open and honest debate here we had here about these issues they all just gave up on it once they’re gone from LGF. Politics aside, this is why I don’t really get bummed out too much anymore when people flounce or get themselves banned. They pretty much all universally go off to other blogs and spew hate towards me even though I considered them all friends at one time. It’s always sad to see an old Lizard go but I know they’re soon going to be talking shit about me.

133 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:36:49pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

I routinely have to remind my wife that internet friends are in no way the same as real life friends.

134 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:36:57pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

All those stalkers once opposed 9-11 Truthers too but now get all their news from Fox and Drudge.

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:37:44pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I routinely have to remind my wife that internet friends are in no way the same as real life friends.

I sorta exist in between, I have a lot of good friends who are long distance, but I still see them several times a year

136 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:37:48pm

New Arsenic-Based Life Form Discovered in Mono Lake

Palin And Tea Party Advisors Hard At Work Thinking Up Something Really Stupid To Say About It

137 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:38:42pm

Spanish woman claims ownership of the Sun, says she’s going to start charging for use

That bitch failed to put up a warning sign, so I’m going to sue her for when I got sunburned.

138 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:40:12pm

re: #136 engineer dog

New Arsenic-Based Life Form Discovered in Mono Lake

Palin And Tea Party Advisors Hard At Work Thinking Up Something Really Stupid To Say About It

Republicans will introduce legislation to remove California from the map and replace it with a label that says. “Here, there be monsters”

139 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:42:37pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

can you imagine the lawsuits for sun cancer not to mention property damage as a result of solar flares? Further she’ll be in deep shit if the sun ever goes Nova or Super Nova….

//

140 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:43:16pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Republicans will introduce legislation to remove California from the map and replace it with a label that says. “Here, there be monsters”

cool…faster so I don’t have to help pay off their debt!

141 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:43:20pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm….i kinda like the idea of living where the monsters are…

142 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:43:35pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I routinely have to remind my wife that internet friends are in no way the same as real life friends.

i used to run a moderately successful internet journal and have met about a dozen people who used to read it from all over the world - all of whom were perfectly normal people.

143 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:43:40pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

“Here, there be monsters”

Should be said in a pirate’s voice, followed by “Arrrrrrgggg!”

144 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:44:38pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Republicans will introduce legislation to remove California from the map and replace it with a label that says. “Here, there be monsters”

GOOD! We’ll secede and keep our universities, farmlands and other resources for ourselves.
/

145 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:46:08pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Let’s offer her a trade. She lets us use the sun no charge, she gets to continue to use the O2. Inhale and exhale, no extra charge.

146 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:46:56pm

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GOOD! We’ll secede and keep our universities, farmlands and other resources for ourselves.
/

are you baiting me?….actually I enjoy visiting CA, and don’t judge everybody by the politics of a few

147 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:49:04pm

re: #146 albusteve

are you baiting me?…actually I enjoy visiting CA, and don’t judge everybody by the politics of a few

No, I’m baiting all those assholes who routinely dump on CA as the land of fruits and nuts.

148 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:49:19pm

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

California is 13% of the GDP of the US.

People hating California have no fucking clue what they’re talking about, and never have.

149 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:49:35pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

The National GOP took it off their map years ago. Maybe a decade ago. Just ask any of the Dem candidates that run unchallenged by anyone with any GOP support.

150 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:51:41pm

re: #148 Obdicut

California is 13% of the GDP of the US.

People hating California have no fucking clue what they’re talking about, and never have.

How many folks in the “other” 49 states even have a clue about how badly the GOP has fared here? Or how California had utterly opposite results this last time around? No GOP or tea party success stories here at all. Nada. BTW, I’m a 3rd generation native Angeleno.

151 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:51:44pm

re: #147 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m really getting tired of the bashing of California too. I could go on a massive rant, but I think there are better things to do.

152 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:51:51pm

re: #148 Obdicut

California is 13% of the GDP of the US.

People hating California have no fucking clue what they’re talking about, and never have.

but…..but……but….. in a couple of years they will all be living out of trashcans and sleeping rough…….. i thought it was *bad* there with debts and unions and union debts………

153 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:52:08pm

Happy Hour Vid: John Boehner Holds His Breath Trying Not To Say ‘Chicken Crap’

John Boehner couldn’t hide his feelings at a press conference today when asked about about this afternoon’s House vote on extending tax cuts to the broader population. According to Talking Points Memo, House Democrats are planning a straight vote on the matter, avoiding regular House voting rules by attaching the tax plan to the Airport and Airway Extension Act which has already passed the house and cannot be resubmitted.

In an expression of frustration with the plan, Boehner told reporters: “I’m trying to catch my breath so I don’t refer to this maneuver going on today as chicken crap, all right? But this is nonsense.” Duly noted: he’s trying to make sure he doesn’t say “chicken crap.”

154 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:52:53pm

re: #151 ProLifeLiberal

I’m really getting tired of the bashing of California too. I could go on a massive rant, but I think there are better things to do.

I feel the same way about continuously bashing the south…we are all of one nest

155 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:53:14pm

re: #152 wozzablog

but…but…but… in a couple of years they will all be living out of trashcans and sleeping rough… i thought it was *bad* there with debts and unions and union debts…

And us sending money out of state to cover slacker states.

156 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:53:52pm

re: #154 albusteve

I feel the same way about continuously bashing the south…we are all of one nest

Well… I would agree with you if you could find anyone in the south with an IQ above room temperature.

157 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:54:21pm

re: #154 albusteve

I feel the same way about continuously bashing the south…we are all of one nest

Any place that routinely puts sugar in its iced tea deserves to be bashed.
/

158 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:55:34pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Any place that routinely puts sugar in its iced tea deserves to be bashed.
/

You can get the other kind with a doctor’s note or religious exemption.

159 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:56:12pm

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Well… I would agree with you if you could find anyone in the south with an IQ above room temperature.

heh…well, there Bobby J, heroically trying to save the LA school system and he’s a pretty smart guy….they say you can’t hold office if you are an idiot

160 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:57:08pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Any place that routinely puts sugar in its iced tea deserves to be bashed.
/

I myself prefer my ice tea naked

161 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:01:31pm

re: #160 albusteve

That’s how FBV likes his cake.

162 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:03:39pm

Charlie Rangle was censured…about time

163 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:06:49pm

re: #160 albusteve

I myself prefer my ice tea naked

A twist of lemon is all I need.

164 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:07:07pm

And I’m off, be seeing you.

165 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:13:44pm

re: #159 albusteve

Bobby Jindal who supported teaching creationism in school?

166 Tiny alien kittens are watching you  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:13:59pm

Sigh…

I just got hung out to dry, my Aunt agreed verbally to pay half the price of a new flat screen TV for my sisters family. Now that I told her the order has been processed she claims she never agreed to it and will not pay her half.

I told Dad already, after all it is mostly his money I am spending, he said “Oh well, I guess your trying to tell me we have to pay for the whole thing?” Well, yeah, but it wasn’t supposed to be that way…shit.

Goddamn but my family sucks giant elephant balls…

167 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:14:13pm

re: #165 Dreggas

Bobby Jindal who supported teaching creationism in school?

same guy

168 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:15:44pm

re: #167 albusteve

doesn’t sound like he’s saving the school system by supporting that.

169 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:16:39pm

re: #166 ausador

ouch >

170 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:17:47pm

re: #166 ausador

sounds like my wife’s uncle, guy came to our wedding from panama, dropped over 5 grand on stuff in vegas while my father in law paid for all of his meals etc and then gave us 5 bucks for a wedding gift.

171 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:18:07pm

re: #168 Dreggas

doesn’t sound like he’s saving the school system by supporting that.

I was joking
Jindal is hopeless

172 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:30:04pm

re: #171 albusteve

oh. missed the // should have known you weren’t serious.

173 diocletian  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:30:08pm

re: #55 Obdicut

This goes well beyond ordinary adaptation, though. It’s more basic.

It’s almost certainly an adaptation to low phosphate conditions. From the paper:

GFAJ-1 grew at an average μmax of 0.53/day under +As/-P [40 mM AsO4^3-, 10 mM glucose], increasing by over 20-fold in cell numbers after six days. It also grew faster and more extensively with the addition of 1.5 mM PO4^3- (-As/+P, μmax of 0.86/day, Fig. 1A, B). However, when neither AsO4^3- nor PO4^3- was added, no growth was observed

In other words, growth is slowed when only arsenate is present. It’s not an “arsenic based life form” in that sense. Now for the point about origins. The proteobacteria are clearly in the same family of life as all of us. But since prokaryotes tend to swap DNA a lot, there’s doubt that it’s even possible to trace the tree of life back to the first cell or even close. So it is conceivable that the ability to use arsenate is some kind of atavism from an “arsenic based life form” that time forgot. Although swapping arsenate-based DNA sounds a little like swapping arsenic-based brownies.

174 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:36:41pm

re: #173 diocletian


It’s almost certainly an adaptation to low phosphate conditions. From the paper:

Yes, but it’s an adaptation unlike ever seen before, in a structural way. It really is quite different. A normal adaptation involves some DNA swapping so that a different protein gets produced, or just produced at a different rate, causing some phenotypically different effects.

This adaptation, somehow is able to allow the usage of a different element. That’s a wide step away from coding for a different protein.

Unless, of course, this somehow is all possible by coding for a different protein; in that case, that’s one hella amazing protein.

175 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:38:33pm

re: #173 diocletian

the most sense i can make out of it - since i know virtually nothing about biology - is that both phosphorus and arsenic are IIRC light metals. therefore it makes sense to a layman like me that an organism could use one light metal instead of another as part of the dna. also, i get the point that use of arsenic where most life forms use phosphorus does not change a carbon based life form into an “arsenic based” life form

176 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:41:06pm

/Note to self: do NOT kiss aliens…

177 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:44:50pm

re: #175 engineer dog

The csmonitor.com site has a pretty good explanation of how strange this is:

The DNA molecule is shaped like a spiral ladder. The “rungs” of the ladder are comprised of pairs of nucleotides, which spell out the genetic instructions of life. The sides of the DNA ladder, referred to as its backbone, are long chains of alternating sugar and phosphate molecules. A phosphate molecule contains five atoms: one of phosphorus, four of oxygen. No phosphorus, no phosphate. No phosphate, no backbone. No backbone, no DNA. No DNA, no life.

Arsenic is chemically similar to phosphorus, so it can sneak its way into living cells, as if wearing a disguise. But it is more reactive than phosphorus, in ways that tend to rip apart life’s essential molecules. DNA, for example.

Somehow, GFAJ-1 appears to have found a way to overcome this problem.csmonitor.com

178 lostlakehiker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:45:40pm

re: #3 Rightwingconspirator

Aliens on earth. Kinda. Paralleled evolution? Panspermia?

I’d bet not. Instead, I expect this will eventually be understood as an evolutionary adaptation from phosphorus-based life to a setting where arsenic is all too plentiful and maybe phosphorus is scarce.

There’s an easy enough pathway, after all. Start with bacteria that tolerate slight concentrations of arsenic. These prosper when their competition is killed. But once they’re established in some sheltered corner of the lake, where the concentrations of arsenic aren’t so high, a whole lake awaits gradual invasion, up the arsenic concentration slope. The selective pressures would be fierce whenever the lake’s freshwater intake dropped, as it has in recent times.

I expect this new species to have all sorts of structural and organizational similarities to existing life, even strings of “DNA” that match what is found in other, somewhat similar bacteria, but with the wrinkle that it can use arsenic in place of phosphorus.

179 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:51:12pm

This is all really cool, but I can’t help but wonder how NASA ended up in a lake in California?

180 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:55:46pm

I can hear the talking point now: “We’re spending our hard-earned tax dollars to study bacteria in a lake in California! “

181 theheat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:57:36pm

re: #180 JasonA

Or, worse, “See, we can make the earth as toxic as we wanna, because God will help us adapt to live in a toxic shithole. It’s a sign from God! Pollute at will!”

182 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 4:59:58pm

re: #179 brookly red

This is all really cool, but I can’t help but wonder how NASA ended up in a lake in California?

Well, if you’re trying to study alien environments and can’t travel there, you have to look closer to home.

183 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:00:04pm

re: #180 JasonA

I can hear the talking point now: “We’re spending our hard-earned tax dollars to study bacteria in a lake in California! “

Well, we should be doing that (I guess) but I would think the EPA, or some other Earthbound agency should be doing it… But the National Space Agency? I am glad it happened but it is sorta funny, no?

184 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:00:32pm

re: #182 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Well, if you’re trying to study alien environments and can’t travel there, you have to look closer to home.

Try Jersey City.

185 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:01:18pm

re: #180 JasonA

I can hear the talking point now: “We’re spending our hard-earned tax dollars to study bacteria in a lake in California! “

always a partisan…always

186 Kragar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:01:23pm

re: #184 Walter L. Newton

Try Jersey City.

Jersey Shore is an argument for slime evolving from intelligent life.

187 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:01:55pm

re: #182 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Well, if you’re trying to study alien environments and can’t travel there, you have to look closer to home.

Yeah I guess…

and note I am playing nice regarding California & alien environments ;)

188 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:02:06pm

re: #179 brookly red

This is all really cool, but I can’t help but wonder how NASA ended up in a lake in California?

It’s one of those thing anti-science wingnuts would label an absurd money waiting project. A Nasa grant to study some obscure lifeless lake? It must be a plot to find some worthless fish and create socialist environmental restrictions!

189 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:02:46pm

Here’s what NASA says about why NASA?

NASA’s Astrobiology Program in Washington contributed funding for the research through its Exobiology and Evolutionary Biology program and the NASA Astrobiology Institute. NASA’s Astrobiology Program supports research into the origin, evolution, distribution, and future of life on Earth.
astrobiology.nasa.gov
190 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:03:58pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

It’s one of those thing anti-science wingnuts would label an absurd money waiting project. A Nasa grant to study some obscure lifeless lake? It must be a plot to find some worthless fish and create socialist environmental restrictions!

/or maybe it’s where they dumped the bodies from Area 51…

(cue scary music)

191 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:05:19pm

re: #186 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Jersey Shore is an argument for slime evolving from intelligent life.

could evolve, could… we are still waiting.

192 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:06:55pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

It’s one of those thing anti-science wingnuts would label an absurd money waiting project. A Nasa grant to study some obscure lifeless lake? It must be a plot to find some worthless fish and create socialist environmental restrictions!

another fish dejour?…the dems have already blocked up the Sac river valley because of some minnow, while farmers cash out…but you knew that

193 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:08:00pm

re: #181 theheat

Or, worse, “See, we can make the earth as toxic as we wanna, because God will help us adapt to live in a toxic shithole. It’s a sign from God! Pollute at will!”

God will provide the lack of decency and self respect we need to ruin the world!

194 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:08:05pm

re: #191 brookly red

could evolve, could… we are still waiting.

what about the Boss?

195 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:09:26pm

re: #194 albusteve

what about the Boss?

he turned commie once he got rich…

strange how that works.

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:09:51pm

re: #159 albusteve

heh…well, there Bobby J, heroically trying to save the LA school system and he’s a pretty smart guy…they say you can’t hold office if you are an idiot

Bobby Jindal don’t know nothing about no volcanoes

I’m sure he’s working hard, but either he’s not very bright or he’s being told to say the stupidest things

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:10:03pm

re: #192 albusteve

another fish dejour?…the dems have already blocked up the Sac river valley because of some minnow, while farmers cash out…but you knew that

Salmon. They’re called salmon.

198 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:10:18pm

re: #195 brookly red

he turned commie once he got rich…

strange how that works.

do you know anything about Bruce Springsteen at all, hahaha

199 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:11:12pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Salmon. They’re called salmon.

Salmon, huh what? is it dinner time? Ooooh salmon. I am hungry.

200 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:11:51pm

re: #178 lostlakehiker

No, the pathway isn’t easy. We really have no freaking clue how it’s managed to do this. That’s what’s so awesome.

Being able to tolerate arsenic is absolutely and completely different from being able to use arsenic in place of phosphorous.

201 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:12:06pm

re: #195 brookly red

he turned commie once he got rich…

strange how that works.

then there is Sheryl Crow….check out her pad
Youtube Video

carbon footprint?…bwahahaha!

202 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:12:06pm

re: #148 Obdicut

California is 13% of the GDP of the US.

People hating California have no fucking clue what they’re talking about, and never have.

yep

203 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:12:54pm

re: #201 albusteve

give me Mike Doughty any day

204 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:13:19pm

re: #203 WindUpBird

give me Mike Doughty any day

he’s yours

205 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:13:39pm

re: #204 albusteve

he’s yours

sweet

206 brookly red  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:14:45pm

re: #201 albusteve

then there is Sheryl Crow…check out her pad

[Video]

carbon footprint?…bwahahaha!

I don’t mind folks getting rich…

207 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:14:59pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I did actually blink at the notion that Lugar could get forced out, that seemed like an incredibly bad sign

208 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:16:00pm

re: #207 WindUpBird

I did actually blink at the notion that Lugar could get forced out, that seemed like an incredibly bad sign

it is…the purge has begun

209 Spocomptonite  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:29:38pm

The juxtaposition of NASA announcing a life-form that isn’t even based upon the same atoms as everything else living we’ve ever known, next to the post about the Creationist Ark getting taxpayer support, is truly jarring. I think I just got intelligence whiplash.

This is an AWESOME discovery, I mean it might as well have been ant announcement of extraterrestrial life for how big it is. Proteins break down around arsenic, and everything uses proteins!


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