Open Thread w/ Page Promos
LGF • Views: 23,856
Here’s a Friday afternoon open thread with a purpose — post any links to LGF Pages you thought were especially noteworthy this week. And it’s OK to pimp your own Pages…
439 comments
1 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:43:30pm |
Gee, I pimped my Pages last night. I'd be embarrassed to do it again so soon.
| 3 |
shutdown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:44:59pm |
Killgore has my first vote:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 4 |
shutdown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:45:26pm |
| 5 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:45:56pm |
Of historical interest:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 6 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:46:54pm |
Any plans for making a 2011 calendar, Charles?
| 7 |
recusancy Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:47:34pm |
Kind of weird watching a presser at the white house with Bill Clinton. What decade is this?
| 8 |
shutdown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:47:39pm |
re: #6 wrenchwench
Any plans for making a 2011 calendar, Charles?
A revolutionary calendar dedicated to Glenn F*cking Beck!
| 9 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:48:27pm |
I wrote a bunch of pages about how all y'all don't me, ah do what I want, imma go get pregnant and commit cyber war, ain't none of your business what I do and I'm sixteen years old now I is an adult!
| 10 |
Political Atheist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:49:24pm |
My favorite this week, as a great angle in the Wikileaks mess. That awful conflation of espionage and sex charges.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
As a guy in the biz to biz gold world, I really liked this one. Another from Ice...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Thank you Iceweasel. Two home runs.
I can not resist the chance to pimp a local blues musician again...Yeah my page but this is all about independent music from the streets.
Many of you already saw this but just in case... Worth a listen.
| 11 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:49:39pm |
And for some incredible, incredible blues licks, check out:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 13 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:50:16pm |
re: #9 Barrett Brown
I wrote a bunch of pages about how all y'all don't me, ah do what I want, imma go get pregnant and commit cyber war, ain't none of your business what I do and I'm sixteen years old now I is an adult!
Thats nice dear, just be home by 10 or no ice cream for the rest of the week.
| 15 |
shutdown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:51:11pm |
Well, my 14 year old daughter is "baking" downstairs. It smells like I should go and stop "the house from burning down".
Later, all
| 16 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:52:04pm |
re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
ANONYMOUS LOVE ME YOU DON'T KNOW NOTHIN ABOUT HIM! HE TAKIN ME TO SONIC AND I DON'T HAVE TO BE HOME FOR DARK.
| 17 |
Political Atheist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:52:18pm |
re: #5 Obdicut
Of historical interest:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
I hope that is right. What a great story anyway, that intrepid woman. I'm a big fan of capable women. Mad skillz are sexy.
| 18 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:52:35pm |
re: #10 Rightwingconspirator
Here's a direct link to that 2nd vid, because that second song really, really got to me.
Have a listen, folks, and read the page linked above.
| 19 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:52:45pm |
re: #9 Barrett Brown
I'm going to tag all my pages with "Justin Beiber" until the government collapses!
| 20 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:52:58pm |
re: #9 Barrett Brown
I wrote a bunch of pages about how all y'all don't me, ah do what I want, imma go get pregnant and commit cyber war, ain't none of your business what I do and I'm sixteen years old now I is an adult!
Your feature page and the following comments are a great synopsis of the current Wikileaks debate.
LGF is current events crack.
| 22 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:53:19pm |
Critique of a hype around the latest "Nazi hunter".
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 23 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:53:30pm |
Civil War's 150th anniversary stirs debate on race
CHARLESTON, S.C. – At South Carolina's Secession Gala, men in frock coats and militia uniforms and women in hoopskirts will sip mint juleps as a band called Unreconstructed plays "Dixie." In Georgia, they will re-enact the state's 1861 secession convention. And Alabama will hold a mock swearing-in of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.
Across the South, preparations are under way for the 150th anniversary of the Civil War. And while many organizations are working to incorporate both the black and the white experience, there are complaints that some events will glorify the Old South and the Lost Cause while overlooking the fundamental reason for the war: slavery.
"It's almost like celebrating the Holocaust," said Benard Simelton, president of the Alabama conference of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. "Our rights were taken away and we were treated as less than human beings. To relive that in a celebratory way I don't think is right."
Mark Simpson, commander of the South Carolina Division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, acknowledged that an event such as the Dec. 20 Secession Gala in Charleston is seen by some Americans as politically incorrect. But "to us it's part of our nature and our culture and our heritage."
"Slavery was a very big issue. Anyone who denies that has his head in a hole somewhere," said Simpson, a Spartanburg businessman who counts 32 ancestors who fought for the South. "But slavery was not the single nor primary cause, and that's where the line gets drawn."
Simpson said the primary cause was states' rights — the purported right of states to nullify federal laws and freely leave the Union they voluntarily joined.
Many historians would disagree, and strongly.
| 25 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:54:12pm |
Sen Sanders is my "Page of the Day". He's holding up, but I'd send a hundred bucks to see Franken get up and give him a spell.
| 26 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:54:41pm |
| 27 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:54:44pm |
re: #19 Killgore Trout
I'm going to tag all my pages with "Justin Beiber" until the government collapses!
Now that just might work.
| 28 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:55:23pm |
re: #16 Barrett Brown
ANONYMOUS LOVE ME YOU DON'T KNOW NOTHIN ABOUT HIM! HE TAKIN ME TO SONIC AND I DON'T HAVE TO BE HOME FOR DARK.
Oh, your father checked your computer. He's buying you a book all about magnets because he saw you were so interested about how they work.
| 30 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:55:45pm |
| 32 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:56:30pm |
re: #19 Killgore Trout
I'm going to tag all my pages with "Justin Beiber" until the government collapses!
She's cute, but I haven't listened to any of her songs.
| 34 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:57:20pm |
re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Oh, your father checked your computer. He's buying you a book all about magnets because he saw you were so interested about how they work.
WHA? U KNO HOW THE FUCKIN MAGNETS WORK? TELLME TELLME TELLME!!!
| 35 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:57:32pm |
| 36 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:00:04pm |
| 37 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:00:11pm |
re: #34 Sergey Romanov
[Link: artoftrolling.memebase.com...]
| 38 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:00:54pm |
| 39 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:01:12pm |
re: #9 Barrett Brown
I wrote a bunch of pages about how all y'all don't me, ah do what I want, imma go get pregnant and commit cyber war, ain't none of your business what I do and I'm sixteen years old now I is an adult!
It's my hot body ...
| 40 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:01:24pm |
re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Here you go.
[Video]
LOL, failed rickrolling.
Это видео содержит материалы от партнера Sony Music Entertainment, который заблокировал это содержание для показа в вашей стране в целях соблюдения авторских прав.
| 42 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:02:32pm |
re: #40 Sergey Romanov
PS: this particular incarnation is blocked in Russia.
| 43 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:02:49pm |
| 44 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:04:59pm |
Some cool footage of the Navy's rail gun.....
Navy Sets World Record With Incredible, Sci-Fi Weapon
A theoretical dream for decades, the railgun is unlike any other weapon used in warfare. And it's quite real too, as the U.S. Navy has proven in a record-setting test today in Dahlgren, VA.
Rather than relying on a explosion to fire a projectile, the technology uses an electomagnetic current to accelerate a non-explosive bullet at several times the speed of sound. The conductive projectile zips More.. along a set of electrically charged parallel rails and out of the barrel at speeds up to Mach 7.
The result: a weapon that can hit a target 100 miles or more away within minutes.
Skip about 1/2 way through to watch it work.
Hopefully some patriot will steal the technology. Assange could rape all the women he wants with a gun like this.
| 45 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:05:00pm |
| 46 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:06:45pm |
| 47 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:07:54pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Last line over the my limit.
| 48 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:08:49pm |
| 49 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:10:10pm |
re: #47 wrenchwench
Last line over
themy limit.
Understood. I'm a little peeved by the supporters of Assange and Anonymous on LGF. My apologies. I'll drop it.
| 50 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:10:32pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Hi, Kilgore, my daughter made First Chair in violin. It has helped her motivation.
"I'm kind of an important person."
"You're a leader."
"I'm a leader!"
She's a bit gobsmacked.
| 51 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:11:24pm |
re: #49 Killgore Trout
Understood. I'm a little peeved by the supporters of Assange and Anonymous on LGF. My apologies. I'll drop it.
Don't worry; we're kind of peeved at you for having compared Wikileaks to imams who encourage kids to engage in suicide bombings.
| 52 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:11:47pm |
How weirdness skews our understanding of human nature
Good catch by Thanos.
| 53 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:11:49pm |
re: #50 prairiefire
Hi, Kilgore, my daughter made First Chair in violin. It has helped her motivation.
"I'm kind of an important person."
"You're a leader."
"I'm a leader!"
She's a bit gobsmacked.
Congratulations! That's quite an achievement.
| 54 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:13:12pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Some cool footage of the Navy's rail gun...
Navy Sets World Record With Incredible, Sci-Fi Weapon
[Video]Skip about 1/2 way through to watch it work.
Hopefully some patriot will steal the technology. Assange could rape all the women he wants with a gun like this.
I had to down ding you, I have always seen you as much more logical and less emotional, sorry.
| 55 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:13:43pm |
re: #51 Barrett Brown
Don't worry; we're kind of peeved at you for having compared Wikileaks to imams who encourage kids to engage in suicide bombings.
More like a dealer who encourages robbery to support a drug addiction.
| 56 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:14:11pm |
re: #51 Barrett Brown
Don't worry; we're kind of peeved at you for having compared Wikileaks to imams who encourage kids to engage in suicide bombings.
I feel strongly about people who want to sabotage their own government. It's especially awful when they do it with delusions of magically transforming the world into some sort of stateless utopia.
| 57 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:15:15pm |
re: #49 Killgore Trout
Understood. I'm a little peeved by the supporters of Assange and Anonymous on LGF.
You're peeved, and I'm nonplussed.
(Hmmm... peeved and nonplussed. Sounds sort of like a dressing, like sweet and sour, or oil and vinegar.)
| 58 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:15:49pm |
Yeah, yeah.
Secrecy is bad.
Tell me, those who support Assange.
Would you support him if he released info that told the enemy of a secret operation?
Would you support him if he released weapon's designs that allowed, say, Iran to greatly improve its nuclear potential?
| 59 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:16:39pm |
re: #50 prairiefire
Hi, Kilgore, my daughter made First Chair in violin. It has helped her motivation.
"I'm kind of an important person."
"You're a leader."
"I'm a leader!"
She's a bit gobsmacked.
Tell her hi for me... and congrats. I was really concerned that after your visit that she was all ready to become a gold prospector... I'm glad she changed her mind and opted for the violin :)
| 60 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:16:40pm |
re: #58 Varek Raith
Yeah, yeah.
Secrecy is bad.
Tell me, those who support Assange.
Would you support him if he released info that told the enemy of a secret operation?
Would you support him if he released weapon's designs that allowed, say, Iran to greatly improve its nuclear potential?
Where do you draw the line?
| 61 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:16:53pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
I feel strongly about people who want to sabotage their own government. It's especially awful when they do it with delusions of magically transforming the world into some sort of stateless utopia.
One's own government is the best to sabotage if it is committing crimes in one's name. If it's any consolation, I once went on Russia Today and started talking about the FSB false flag terrorist attacks in 1999 until they cut me off.
| 62 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:17:20pm |
re: #57 freetoken
You're peeved, and I'm nonplussed.
(Hmmm... peeved and nonplussed. Sounds sort of like a dressing, like sweet and sour, or oil and vinegar.)
"Peeved and Nonplussed" starring Rowan Atkinson and Hugh Laurie
| 63 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:17:42pm |
re: #58 Varek Raith
Can we have one thread free of Wikileaking?
There are a ton of awesome pages out there on other subjects. Like:
| 64 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:17:48pm |
re: #58 Varek Raith
Yeah, yeah.
Secrecy is bad.
Tell me, those who support Assange.
Would you support him if he released info that told the enemy of a secret operation?
Would you support him if he released weapon's designs that allowed, say, Iran to greatly improve its nuclear potential?
Would you support him if he released weapon's information that allowed, say, the USA to greatly remove Iran's nuclear potential?
| 65 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:17:51pm |
re: #61 Barrett Brown
One's own government is the best to sabotage if it is committing crimes in one's name. If it's any consolation, I once went on Russia Today and started talking about the FSB false flag terrorist attacks in 1999 until they cut me off.
What "crimes" by the US government are being exposed?
| 66 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:18:21pm |
re: #63 Obdicut
Can we have one thread free of Wikileaking?
There are a ton of awesome pages out there on other subjects. Like:
Hey!
Why'd you single me out??!!
/
Fine, I'll drop it
Meanie.
:P
| 67 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:18:24pm |
re: #63 Obdicut
Can we have one thread free of Wikileaking?
There are a ton of awesome pages out there on other subjects. Like:
OK, Obdi. I'm done.
| 68 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:19:24pm |
re: #65 prairiefire
What "crimes" by the US government are being exposed?
I'll tell you, but first let me ask you this: do you think that the U.S. government and/or its various components has committed crimes over the past 50 years?
| 69 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:19:48pm |
| 70 |
Varek Raith Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:20:08pm |
| 71 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:22:45pm |
I'll pimp my page from earlier on the map of slavery at the NYTimes Disunion blog. The information in and about the map are great tools for putting the lie to the "States Rights" dreck.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 72 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:23:00pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
Assange could rape all the women he wants with a gun like this.
Again:
"It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent, and I do not feel threatened by him," she told the newspaper in an interview that did not identify her by name. "The responsibility for what happened to me and the other girl lies with a man who had attitude problems with women."
I dont' know exactly how to feel about this prosecution, but I think that if it were happening to anybody else you wouldn't be so quick to call the man a rapist. In my opinion rape just isn't the kind of word or offense that should be defined downwards to a $715 fine. Especially when the purported victim has stated for the record that she doesn't see it as rape.
| 73 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:23:14pm |
re: #65 prairiefire
What "crimes" by the US government are being exposed?
A couple experts in international law would argue, but it's hard to see the invasion of Iraq as anything but aggressive war.
| 74 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:23:16pm |
re: #68 Barrett Brown
I'll tell you, but first let me ask you this: do you think that the U.S. government and/or its various components has committed crimes over the past 50 years?
The question is - what is the proper way to prosecute crimes?
Making massive dumps of private/secret material available to the public is not necessarily a good strategy.
Indeed, evidence may become so tainted, and juries so hard to sit, that prosecution becomes entangled in legal hijinks.
Collateral damage of release of private information also needs to be considered.
So far the Wikileaks/Anonymous stunts have seemed to be just that - stunts to get attention.
| 75 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:23:20pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
I feel strongly about people who want to sabotage their own government. It's especially awful when they do it with delusions of magically transforming the world into some sort of stateless utopia.
Hey. Why should it mater to sabotage the American government? After all, they-are-wrong. At least that's what the current leftist/libertarian orthodoxy has taught us. In addition to that we no longer have to fear any more global totalitarian states, ideologies and yes, religion (singular), intent on subjugating Western traditions and liberal freedoms. So we create an open society of sorts that eventually eats itself through the natural and evolutionary intentions of human beings to place their beliefs and power over those of others. It's all relative, man, and governance is relative and has reached a global state. There are no more enemies and this will prove it.
//
| 77 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:25:30pm |
re: #68 Barrett Brown
I'll tell you, but first let me ask you this: do you think that the U.S. government and/or its various components has committed crimes over the past 50 years?
Yep.
| 78 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:25:46pm |
re: #72 goddamnedfrank
Again:
I dont' know exactly how to feel about this prosecution, but I think that if it were happening to anybody else you wouldn't be so quick to call the man a rapist. In my opinion rape just isn't the kind of word or offense that should be defined downwards to a $715 fine. Especially when the purported victim has stated for the record that she doesn't see it as rape.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn charges are a guise to get him in custody so he can be extradited for charges in the US. Weirder things have happened.
| 79 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:26:12pm |
re: #51 Barrett Brown
Don't worry; we're kind of peeved at you for having compared Wikileaks to imams who encourage kids to engage in suicide bombings.
I have a concern about something you said in a comment at Ordinary Gentlemen.
Tony Comstock December 9, 2010 at 11:53 amWhy do you have such high hopes for digital technology?
Reply
Barrett Brown December 9, 2010 at 12:08 pm
How could I not, in light of what’s been happening? I think that the more time one spends observing the emergent structures that have come about to fill roles that ought to have been filled earlier, the less choice one has but to expect that the fifteen or twenty years of internet evolution we’ve seen thus far is only the beginning of what is possible. Obviously, one’s views on all of this will be colored to some extent by how one feels about the status quo. I think I see the world as it is, including our own government and institutions, in a bleaker manner than does 80 or 90 percent of the population, and as such I’m far more excited about the ongoing period of tumult, not being at all wedded to anything that might be broken as a result.
The last sentence makes you sound like a reckless anarchist. Am I reading too much into "excited about the ongoing period of tumult"?
| 80 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:26:13pm |
re: #75 Gus 802
/Nixon was just misunderstood
| 81 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:26:53pm |
| 82 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:27:39pm |
re: #61 Barrett Brown
One's own government is the best to sabotage if it is committing crimes in one's name. If it's any consolation, I once went on Russia Today and started talking about the FSB false flag terrorist attacks in 1999 until they cut me off.
At least they don't welcome this kind of trutherism.
Anyway, Barrett, maybe you're in the know, so can you explain this?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 83 |
JeffFX Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:28:59pm |
re: #82 Sergey Romanov
At least they don't welcome this kind of trutherism.
Anyway, Barrett, maybe you're in the know, so can you explain this?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Link redirects to the LGF main page for me.
| 84 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:29:09pm |
re: #75 Gus 802
Hey. Why should it mater to sabotage the American government? After all, they-are-wrong. At least that's what the current leftist/libertarian orthodoxy has taught us. In addition to that we no longer have to fear any more global totalitarian states, ideologies and yes, religion (singular), intent on subjugating Western traditions and liberal freedoms. So we create an open society of sorts that eventually eats itself through the natural and evolutionary intentions of human beings to place their beliefs and power over those of others. It's all relative, man, and governance is relative and has reached a global state. There are no more enemies and this will prove it.
//
We are the enemy.
Always.
| 85 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:30:56pm |
LGF Fauxto exclusive!
Assange meets with British agent.
| 86 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:31:05pm |
| 87 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:31:16pm |
re: #83 JeffFX
Link redirects to the LGF main page for me.
Strange. Somebody deleted the page. Here's the Google cache:
| 88 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:31:16pm |
re: #84 researchok
We are the enemy.
Always.
It's been de moda since the 1970s. Post Vietnam War guilt.
| 89 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:31:26pm |
re: #78 Killgore Trout
I wouldn't be surprised to learn charges are a guise to get him in custody so he can be extradited for charges in the US. Weirder things have happened.
Are you okay with that, using allegations of sex crimes as a guise? If what you say is true do you think such a tactic will help victimized women in the future with their legitimate claims?
| 90 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:32:33pm |
re: #87 Sergey Romanov
Strange. Somebody deleted the page. Here's the Google cache:
Charles, did you delete the page?
| 91 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:33:46pm |
re: #89 goddamnedfrank
Are you okay with that, using allegations of sex crimes as a guise? If what you say is true do you think such a tactic will help victimized women in the future with their legitimate claims?
I don't think it will affect normal due process of rape crimes. I do think it will help female CIA agents target perceived enemies of the US.
| 92 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:34:14pm |
re: #90 Sergey Romanov
Charles, did you delete the page?
Strange... that Google cache takes me to LGF home page, not to a cached page? Or am I doing something wrong?
| 93 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:34:22pm |
re: #88 Gus 802
It's been de moda since the 1970s. Post Vietnam War guilt.
It started in 1971:
[Link: herdingcats.typepad.com...]
| 94 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:34:59pm |
re: #90 Sergey Romanov
Charles, did you delete the page?
I didn't delete it - maybe one of the monitors did for some reason. Didn't even see it, actually.
| 95 |
Political Atheist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:35:13pm |
re: #60 Varek Raith
Where do you draw the line?
Here is where it gets real-Asa our military, State dept., and intel services raise the barriers to moving information, we recreate the walls that kept the 9/11 dots from being connected in time. So I maintain that now, this very minute it is easier to attack the United States than it was before the Wikileaker, and that is real tangible danger.
If blood flows, it may be in part on his hands.
| 96 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:35:16pm |
re: #78 Killgore Trout
I wouldn't be surprised to learn charges are a guise to get him in custody so he can be extradited for charges in the US. Weirder things have happened.
I really doubt it. Naive conspiracy fans take it for granted but anyone familiar with international law, and law enforcement, would know that the CIA et al is very unlikely to be able to subvert the Swedish justice system unless compelling Swedish interests were involved, and probably not even then.
| 97 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:36:39pm |
re: #94 Charles
I didn't delete it - maybe one of the monitors did for some reason. Didn't even see it, actually.
Perhaps monitors shouldn't delete the pages without any stated reason and without even informing the author?
| 98 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:36:39pm |
re: #89 goddamnedfrank
Are you okay with that, using allegations of sex crimes as a guise?
I don't know if it is a tactic I would have chosen but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some dirty tricks at work in this case. Assange is lucky to be alive, people have been killed for much less. Prison is the best he can hope for. I can't imagine him free and leaking for the rest of his natural life.
| 99 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:37:49pm |
re: #96 Shiplord Kirel
I really doubt it. Naive conspiracy fans take it for granted but anyone familiar with international law, and law enforcement, would know that the CIA et al is very unlikely to be able to subvert the Swedish justice system unless compelling Swedish interests were involved, and probably not even then.
I think there could be a dialogue that is taking place with Swedish authorities outside of their legal system.
| 100 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:37:49pm |
re: #92 Walter L. Newton
Strange... that Google cache takes me to LGF home page, not to a cached page? Or am I doing something wrong?
Walter, I don't know, it works for me.
Here, try this - though without formatting:
[Link: backupurl.com...]
Note that this is an initial version of the page, I actually updated it with information showing that they didn't simply insert some names but published the cable _before_ the Wikileaks did.
| 101 |
Political Atheist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:38:37pm |
re: #98 Killgore Trout
I wonder if he is more peril than Salmon Rushdie, or less? Aside from the rape charges I mean.
| 102 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:39:33pm |
| 103 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:40:39pm |
re: #100 Sergey Romanov
Sergey, what is this about? Which link can I click to see what you were referring to?
| 104 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:41:31pm |
re: #101 Rightwingconspirator
I wonder if he is more peril than Salmon Rushdie, or less? Aside from the rape charges I mean.
Possibly more. Rushdie could at least count on the western authorities and intelligence agencies to do all they could to thwart the rogues and free-lancers who were after him. Assange, maybe not so much.
| 105 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:42:27pm |
re: #102 researchok
I forgot the sarc tag.
It wouldn't be sarc here, much of the time (nor need it be). I don't have most lizards pigeonholed very closely.
| 106 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:42:46pm |
So far the only application of those leaked cables, that I've seen, has been in the pressers down in Cancun, where Amy Goodman has been reading (out of context) part of a sentence of one from Copenhagen last year.
She succeeded in getting the head of Ecuador to comment - in his response he ended up blaming Hillary Clinton for the attempted overthrow of himself not long ago.
Some success, Wikileaks.
| 107 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:42:57pm |
re: #100 Sergey Romanov
Walter, I don't know, it works for me.
Here, try this - though without formatting:
[Link: backupurl.com...]
Note that this is an initial version of the page, I actually updated it with information showing that they didn't simply insert some names but published the cable _before_ the Wikileaks did.
That I could get to... and the cached pages linked from that page to... apparently a list of cables, pre Wikileak.
Maybe someone at LGF didn't want an indirect link to actual stolen cables and deleted your page.
| 108 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:44:16pm |
re: #98 Killgore Trout
I don't know if it is a tactic I would have chosen but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some dirty tricks at work in this case. Assange is lucky to be alive, people have been killed for much less. Prison is the best he can hope for. I can't imagine him free and leaking for the rest of his natural life.
I'm noting a severe difference in the language you're using when describing a potential government black-op intended to get some arrested and widely despised for sex crimes he didn't comment vs. the actions of Anonymous against websites.
| 109 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:44:21pm |
re: #103 Barrett Brown
Sergey, what is this about? Which link can I click to see what you were referring to?
Barret, the Russian media site "Russkij reportyor" (Russian reporter) has and published the uncensored version of the Wikileaks reports. Here's an example:
this was published by RR on 29.11 (scroll to the end):
[Link: www.rusrep.ru...]
this was released by WL on 01.12:
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
Notice all the names intact in RR version. How come some second-rate Russian news/journalism agency has an access to the uncensored cables?
| 110 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:45:07pm |
re: #101 Rightwingconspirator
I wonder if he is more peril than Salmon Rushdie, or less? Aside from the rape charges I mean.
I would guess he's probably in more danger than Rushdie. (I had to delete the rest of this post. Charles probably doesn't want too much speculation about some of the more extreme solutions to the Assange problem)
| 111 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:45:18pm |
re: #106 freetoken
So far the only application of those leaked cables, that I've seen, has been in the pressers down in Cancun, where Amy Goodman has been reading (out of context) part of a sentence of one from Copenhagen last year.
She succeeded in getting the head of Ecuador to comment - in his response he ended up blaming Hillary Clinton for the attempted overthrow of himself not long ago.
Some success, Wikileaks.
Then you haven't been following the story at all. Go look up Shell and Nigeria, or DynCorp and boy sex. That should get you started.
| 112 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:45:35pm |
re: #107 Walter L. Newton
That I could get to... and the cached pages linked from that page to... apparently a list of cables, pre Wikileak.
Maybe someone at LGF didn't want an indirect link to actual stolen cables and deleted your page.
Well that someone was being an asshole in that case.
| 113 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:45:42pm |
re: #97 Sergey Romanov
Perhaps monitors shouldn't delete the pages without any stated reason and without even informing the author?
OK, there was a reason posted when it was deleted -- because the site contained un-redacted documents with names included.
| 114 |
darthstar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:45:58pm |
The bid we put on a house got accepted. Now we just need to secure financing in the next two weeks. If all goes well, we close escrow on a cool date: 1-11-11.
| 115 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:46:44pm |
re: #105 Decatur Deb
It wouldn't be sarc here, much of the time (nor need it be). I don't have most lizards pigeonholed very closely.
We understand each other.
| 116 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:47:00pm |
re: #114 darthstar
The bid we put on a house got accepted. Now we just need to secure financing in the next two weeks. If all goes well, we close escrow on a cool date: 1-11-11.
Congratulations!
| 117 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:47:22pm |
re: #113 Charles
OK, there was a reason posted when it was deleted -- because the site contained un-redacted documents with names included.
Basic security tactics. Where else should we expect that?
Alright, now I'm really done.
| 118 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:47:43pm |
re: #113 Charles
OK, there was a reason posted when it was deleted -- because the site contained un-redacted documents with names included.
I still don't see the reason. I have even given the link to the interview with the very people mentioned in the cables. The cat is out of the bag.
| 119 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:47:57pm |
Getting cold and dark for dog walking--BBL.
| 120 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:48:40pm |
A high-ranking Swede
Otoh, I would do anything this personage (Princess Madeleine) asked me to. This is the one whose fiance nominated himself for dumbest guy in Europe when he wrecked their engagement by having a fling with a Norwegian skater. The latter closely resembled Tonya Harding in her mud-wrestling days, but with much worse teeth.
| 121 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:48:54pm |
re: #110 Killgore Trout
I keep typing and then deleting. It is therapeutic.
| 122 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:49:57pm |
re: #118 Sergey Romanov
I still don't see the reason. I have even given the link to the interview with the very people mentioned in the cables. The cat is out of the bag.
Because its wrong?
| 123 |
freetoken Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:50:22pm |
re: #111 Barrett Brown
I know enough of what Shell has been doing in Nigeria, etc. That oil companies have (and still are), from various nations including the national oil companies from nations, have been abusing power in Africa is not a new revelation.
Indeed, ample evidence has existed for quite some time that numerous crimes there are committed.
The lack of justice in these situations isn't because of a lack of information.
It's because oil is too important to worry about little people.
| 124 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:50:41pm |
re: #79 wrenchwench
Doesn't look like we're going to get an answer to that one.
| 125 |
darthstar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:51:11pm |
re: #120 Shiplord Kirel
A high-ranking Swede
Otoh, I would do anything this personage (Princess Madeleine) asked me to. This is the one whose fiance nominated himself for dumbest guy in Europe when he wrecked their engagement by having a fling with a Norwegian skater. The latter closely resembled Tonya Harding in her mud-wrestling days, but with much worse teeth.
| 126 |
Sionainn Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:52:11pm |
re: #114 darthstar
The bid we put on a house got accepted. Now we just need to secure financing in the next two weeks. If all goes well, we close escrow on a cool date: 1-11-11.
Fantastic!
| 127 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:54:12pm |
re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Because its wrong?
It's not wrong. What's wrong is deleting pages without notice. Anything else?
| 128 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:54:29pm |
re: #123 freetoken
I know enough of what Shell has been doing in Nigeria, etc. That oil companies have (and still are), from various nations including the national oil companies from nations, have been abusing power in Africa is not a new revelation.
Indeed, ample evidence has existed for quite some time that numerous crimes there are committed.
The lack of justice in these situations isn't because of a lack of information.
It's because oil is too important to worry about little people.
There are other reasons as well.
Shell is not an American company.
Nigeria is in Africa (American journalists don't really give a rats ass about what is happening in Darfur) and there is a large religious component to the violence in that country.
There is more.
Nothing you don't already know.
| 129 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:54:40pm |
re: #127 Sergey Romanov
It's not wrong. What's wrong is deleting pages without notice. Anything else?
Says you!
| 130 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:55:12pm |
| 131 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:55:37pm |
re: #127 Sergey Romanov
It's not wrong. What's wrong is deleting pages without notice. Anything else?
Making classified material more accessible is more acceptable than removing access to it?
Wow.
| 132 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:56:35pm |
re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Making classified material more accessible is more acceptable than removing access to it?
Wow.
Have any of the links to newspapers that released portions of the cables been removed? I didn't think so.
| 133 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:56:41pm |
re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Making classified material more accessible is more acceptable than removing access to it?
Wow.
Seems to be a self centered interpretation of the situation.
| 134 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:57:43pm |
re: #133 prairiefire
Seems to be a self centered interpretation of the situation.
Um, no, just rational. To repeat: 1. cat is out of the bag; 2. everybody linked to the newspapers reports.
| 135 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:58:17pm |
re: #79 wrenchwench
I have a concern about something you said in a comment at Ordinary Gentlemen.
The last sentence makes you sound like a reckless anarchist. Am I reading too much into "excited about the ongoing period of tumult"?
Well, I agree with his statement completely. Excited can just mean that, excited, not hoping society collapses (it's not gonna) or hoping for harm to the country (A country is what it is, a giant mass of people, it's constantly harming itself and elevating itself) examining the changes happening, being in a very strange and fast moving time in history. I don't think I'm an anarchist for being curious about it.
*shrug* it's an emotional thing, I'm by no means an anarchist at all, but I am excited about what's happening. I've always been interested in how technology overtakes and shapes behavior.
| 136 |
Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:58:59pm |
re: #127 Sergey Romanov
It's not wrong. What's wrong is deleting pages without notice. Anything else?
We have always had a policy at LGF of not allowing links to sites that contain illegal material, and the un-redacted documents could be interpreted as such. Also, websites that publish that kind of material are often hosts for various kinds of viruses and Internet bad things, so there's a practical reason for this policy too.
| 137 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 2:59:49pm |
re: #135 WindUpBird
helps that I make my living off the internet itself, off connectivity and social networks, so it's sort of my job to watch how people behave and then insert myself as an artist into the way behaviors are shifting online
| 138 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:00:01pm |
re: #136 Charles
We have always had a policy at LGF of not allowing links to sites that contain illegal material, and the un-redacted documents could be interpreted as such. Also, the kinds of websites that publish that kind of material are often hosts for various kinds of viruses and Internet bad things, so there's a practical reason for this policy too.
I wonder how many PC in the botnets got infected from people accessing the documents in the first place?
| 139 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:00:12pm |
re: #135 WindUpBird
Well, I agree with his statement completely. Excited can just mean that, excited, not hoping society collapses (it's not gonna) or hoping for harm to the country (A country is what it is, a giant mass of people, it's constantly harming itself and elevating itself) examining the changes happening, being in a very strange and fast moving time in history. I don't think I'm an anarchist for being curious about it.
*shrug* it's an emotional thing, I'm by no means an anarchist at all, but I am excited about what's happening. I've always been interested in how technology overtakes and shapes behavior.
I'm curious- How do you think Assange, et al, are shaping behavior?
| 140 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:02:10pm |
re: #136 Charles
We have always had a policy at LGF of not allowing links to sites that contain illegal material, and the un-redacted documents could be interpreted as such. Also, the kinds of websites that publish that kind of material are often hosts for various kinds of viruses and Internet bad things, so there's a practical reason for this policy too.
I haven't clicked, but #109 may contain such a link.
| 141 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:02:23pm |
re: #139 researchok
I'm curious- How do you think Assange, et al, are shaping behavior?
Not assange, assagne is a guy. Forget assange. He runs a website. The internet itself is shaping behavior, the awarenes sof information and the sort of mob access to all this information. The ideas and the mob desire behind wikileaks are what interests me. Assange isn't a CEO or a king. he's just the guy out slightly in front. Moot from 4chan I think is a far more influential internet personality than assaunge.
| 142 |
Barrett Brown Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:02:43pm |
re: #123 freetoken
Yes, we all know about oil companies and Nigeria, but this was a specific instance with proof and details of extent coupled with the fact that the U.S. is apparently trusted by foreign companies with unethical secrets. Meanwhile, only two percent of the cables have been released thus far, so I think your sarcasm towards Wikileaks is a bit premature.
| 143 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:04:59pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
I feel strongly about people who want to sabotage their own government. It's especially awful when they do it with delusions of magically transforming the world into some sort of stateless utopia.
That currently seems to be the republican party, if Ron paul being put in charge of the fed is any indication
| 144 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:05:01pm |
re: #136 Charles
We have always had a policy at LGF of not allowing links to sites that contain illegal material, and the un-redacted documents could be interpreted as such. Also, the kinds of websites that publish that kind of material are often hosts for various kinds of viruses and Internet bad things, so there's a practical reason for this policy too.
OK.
I must say I disagree that this rule was applied correctly in this case, since as of now sites of outlets like NYT and Guardian contain formally illegal material - because the cables are still classified. It also applies to any comment at LGF and any LGF page quoting from the still classified cables, and there were many such comments and pages. That said, the issue is closed.
| 145 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:05:10pm |
re: #137 WindUpBird
helps that I make my living off the internet itself, off connectivity and social networks, so it's sort of my job to watch how people behave and then insert myself as an artist into the way behaviors are shifting online
Sound a bit like the Miranda the "ractor" in Stephenson's "The Diamond Age."
| 146 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:05:21pm |
re: #135 WindUpBird
Well, I agree with his statement completely. Excited can just mean that, excited, not hoping society collapses (it's not gonna) or hoping for harm to the country (A country is what it is, a giant mass of people, it's constantly harming itself and elevating itself) examining the changes happening, being in a very strange and fast moving time in history. I don't think I'm an anarchist for being curious about it.
*shrug* it's an emotional thing, I'm by no means an anarchist at all, but I am excited about what's happening. I've always been interested in how technology overtakes and shapes behavior.
I try to maintain excitement about the future as a matter of mental health and happiness, but if you add in this: "not being at all wedded to anything that might be broken as a result" it sounds like a lack of regard for the possible negative consequences of this activity he's involved in.
| 147 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:06:25pm |
re: #145 Walter L. Newton
Sound a bit like the Miranda the "ractor" in Stephenson's "The Diamond Age."
I KNOW I need to read that book, everyone tells me I gotta *_*
| 148 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:07:36pm |
re: #146 wrenchwench
I try to maintain excitement about the future as a matter of mental health and happiness, but if you add in this: "not being at all wedded to anything that might be broken as a result" it sounds like a lack of regard for the possible negative consequences of this activity he's involved in.
That isn't me, I'm quite wedded to the idea of being happy and living in a place that makes sense in the weird new future ;-)
| 149 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:08:38pm |
re: #141 WindUpBird
Not assange, assagne is a guy. Forget assange. He runs a website. The internet itself is shaping behavior, the awarenes sof information and the sort of mob access to all this information. The ideas and the mob desire behind wikileaks are what interests me. Assange isn't a CEO or a king. he's just the guy out slightly in front. Moot from 4chan I think is a far more influential internet personality than assaunge.
Thanks- I was really curious.
Given my line of work, I am always curious how people see, understand and react to fast changing technology and how that technology intersects with human nature, culture and character.
What I find most interesting is how excited people get without thinking through the ramifications. Let me give you an idea of what I mean.
Suppose you were invited to a party. You want to go of course, but rather than rush headlong into traffic and ignoring the rules of the road and traffic signals, you understand that kind of behavior is more than a little dangerous and fraught with consequences and unintended consequences.
Technology today appears to be embraced by whole swaths of the population who will disregard the dangers simply because they are afraid the party will start without them.
fascinating stuff- to me, anyway.
| 150 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:08:39pm |
Ah yes. The whole existence of Nigeria revolves around Shell oil. But wait a minute! What have we here?
Local laws and customs
Nigeria has the largest Muslim population in sub-Saharan Africa. You should exercise discretion in behaviour and dress, particularly in the north and during the Holy month of Ramadan and when visiting religious sites. See our Travelling during Ramadan page.
The Sharia penal code has been introduced in 12 northern states (Sokoto, Zamfara, Kebbi, Kano, Yobe, Borno, Katsina, Jigawa, Bauchi, Kaduna, Niger and Gombe). Homosexuality by Muslims in those states can attract a sentence of 100 lashes if the defendant is unmarried or stoning if married or divorced. Alcohol consumption, infidelity and theft can attract harsh sentences including stoning, amputation, lashings or long prison terms. Non-Muslims are not bound by Sharia law.
Homosexuality is illegal under Federal law, covering the whole of Nigeria.
[Link: www.fco.gov.uk...]
| 151 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:09:11pm |
re: #136 Charles
Yo Sergey -
I have been here since before registration. The site has always been clear about not feeding the various forms of pond scum ranging from spam-bots to stalkers. So don't feel persecuted. I have been deleted too for overlooking basic sanitation.
Also, if it is Charles who catches it he often comments if he sees it happen live. Monitors don't always because there are monitors who don't want that status known so they don't get treated differently by their friends.
Like I said - don't take it personally.
| 152 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:09:51pm |
re: #147 WindUpBird
I KNOW I need to read that book, everyone tells me I gotta *_*
Well... I guess so... since an old accordion playing fart like me has already read it... get with it sweetie.
But don't be disappointed at the end. The end is sort of typical of Stephenson's other cyberpunkish novels, just sort of ends.
He does a much better job, in my opinion, of reaching satisfying endings in his historical fiction.
| 153 |
Political Atheist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:10:00pm |
re: #151 karmic_inquisitor
Good point.
| 154 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:10:43pm |
re: #149 researchok
Thanks- I was really curious.
Suppose you were invited to a party. You want to go of course, but rather than rush headlong into traffic and ignoring the rules of the road and traffic signals, you understand that kind of behavior is more than a little dangerous and fraught with consequences and unintended consequences.
I would use a chauffeur, then I could get pissed on the way ;)
| 155 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:10:43pm |
re: #151 karmic_inquisitor
Yo Sergey -
I have been here since before registration. The site has always been clear about not feeding the various forms of pond scum ranging from spam-bots to stalkers. So don't feel persecuted. I have been deleted too for overlooking basic sanitation.
Also, if it is Charles who catches it he often comments if he sees it happen live. Monitors don't always because there are monitors who don't want that status known so they don't get treated differently by their friends.
Like I said - don't take it personally.
No prob! It was more of a surprise than anything. Yes, I will be more careful in the future.
| 156 |
sizzleRI Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:13:23pm |
re: #146 wrenchwench
"not being at all wedded to anything that might be broken as a result"
Yeah that was what got me too. Not sure which direction he was going that that? If it is WUB's interpretation, than cool, the internet has and will change so much of our interactions and I hope to enjoy the ride. It shoudl be an interesting one! But, I didn't get that feeling from those words. Might be my problem.
| 157 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:14:21pm |
re: #91 prairiefire
I don't think it will affect normal due process of rape crimes. I do think it will help female CIA agents target perceived enemies of the US.
If proven true, and for the record I'm addressing Kilgore's conjecture and do not believe this is what's happening, it plants doubt whenever and wherever the accused can legitimately claim to be a thorn in the side of the US. Not good for any woman that hypothetical accused person might actually have raped. It will not help female CIA agents if a tool of their trade somehow is publicly exposed as a sham in example, and that avenue of attack is less likely to be believed in the future.
| 158 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:15:28pm |
| 159 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:15:38pm |
Since suddenly people care about Nigeria.
'Cross-dressers' in Nigeria court
The trial of 18 men accused of dressing up as women has started in a Sharia court in northern Nigeria.
The men were arrested last year in a hotel room in the city of Bauchi.
Prosecutors read out a letter from New York based Human Rights Watch calling for the court to respect the men's right to "free association".
The men were originally accused of sodomy, which could lead to the death penalty under Sharia, but the charges were reduced.
[...]
Being a Dan Daudu, however, did not necessarily say much about a person's sexual preferences, our correspondent says.
But eight years ago Nigeria's northern states reintroduced some of the harsher penalties of Islamic law which had been removed under colonialism.
It was a response by politicians to a wave of popular discontent in the Islamic north against political corruption and social injustice.
This new tougher Sharia has largely failed to end such problems but there is now, perhaps, more of a willingness to target groups who appear to behave in ways that run counter to today's more puritan practice of Islam, our correspondent says.
Prosecutor Yusuf Adamu said HRW was "grossly misinformed" about the case and invited a representative of the organisation to attend the trial.
| 160 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:16:50pm |
re: #150 Gus 802
No. There's plenty of other ugliness there.
But Shell really has been fucking over Nigeria forever, including colluding with military dictators to outright shoot people. This has gone on forever.
We should care about that, especially given how many Shell stockholders are from the US.
Then again, we should also care that Saudi Arabia is an oppressive semi-theocratic oligarchy, but they're our allies.
And we should care about the crushing poverty that affects so many in Appalachia.
And we should care about our incredibly high prison population.
Can someone order some more caring, please?
| 161 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:17:04pm |
| 163 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:17:44pm |
re: #159 Gus 802
Speaking of homophobia, there is this weirdness from the Czech Republic:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
The EU has told Czech Republic to stop its controversial practice of trying to determine whether asylum seekers are gay by showing them blue movies to gauge their 'sexual arousal' levels.
Those subjected to what Czechs referred to as the 'porno exam' were men claiming asylum on the grounds they would be in danger in their homelands due to their sexuality.
If any of the applicants got aroused at the sight of men and women having sex they were automatically denied asylum rights.
| 164 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:18:30pm |
re: #159 Gus 802
Since suddenly people care about Nigeria.
10 guys cross dressing makes news but FGM, the stoning of women, etc., does not.
Agenda, anyone?
| 165 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:19:04pm |
re: #163 Sergey Romanov
Holy shit, there's still someone doing that?
That's so nutso. That's not how sexuality works. Geez.
| 167 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:20:02pm |
re: #160 Obdicut
No. There's plenty of other ugliness there.
But Shell really has been fucking over Nigeria forever, including colluding with military dictators to outright shoot people. This has gone on forever.
We should care about that, especially given how many Shell stockholders are from the US.
Then again, we should also care that Saudi Arabia is an oppressive semi-theocratic oligarchy, but they're our allies.
And we should care about the crushing poverty that affects so many in Appalachia.
And we should care about our incredibly high prison population.
Can someone order some more caring, please?
Bud does anyone honestly think that if one were to either a) turn Shell Oil into this highly ethical organization or b) get rid of Shell Oil in Nigeria is actually going to solve their problems? I doubt it. Nigerias faults are far greater than Shell Oil. And given the history of recent conflicts I would venture to say that most of their problems are cause by r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n. And it's not the church from Salt Lake City.
| 168 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:20:26pm |
re: #166 sizzleRI
What agenda?
No idea. But it would seem that is a possibility, given the other things I mentioned are far greater problems.
| 169 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:21:11pm |
| 170 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:22:04pm |
Hey everybody remember my LGF lol-troll cats?
(Last collected on this page [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] )
Would you guys be interested in me doing another page for my latest batch of troll cats?
| 171 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:22:51pm |
So when are the hackers going to hack the government computers in Uganda?
Oh that's right. It's not trendy enough.
| 172 |
bratwurst Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:23:24pm |
re: #169 Dreggas
my bad
Sheesh...if a transgendered person can't get a modicum of decency and respect from the DMV in San Francisco, where are they going to get it?
| 173 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:23:27pm |
re: #165 Obdicut
Holy shit, there's still someone doing that?
That's so nutso. That's not how sexuality works. Geez.
I'm currently reading some articles from this issue of JotHoS, and there was a mention of some Nazi sex honcho who had a theory about homosexuals - some were hereditary, and some were curable. In order to select the ones for the camps from those curable there was a commission before which the "patient" had to have sex with a prostitute. If the commission was satisfied ... that he was curable, he was spared.
| 174 |
sizzleRI Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:24:01pm |
re: #168 researchok
I'm just curious what agenda cares more about cross-dressing than FGM and stoning?
Although, I want to say that I have read in many places including the media about FGM and stoning in Muslim/tribal societies but this is the first I've seen about cross-dressing.
| 175 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:24:46pm |
re: #167 Gus 802
Bud does anyone honestly think that if one were to either a) turn Shell Oil into this highly ethical organization or b) get rid of Shell Oil in Nigeria is actually going to solve their problems?
I haven't seen anyone assert that. However, it's obvious that having a company run a government is terrible for the people of that nation. It's still an evil, even if there are other evils competing.
And given the history of recent conflicts I would venture to say that most of their problems are cause by r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n.
I'd say you were wrong. I'd say the history of exploitation, colonialism, and neocolonialism, combined with the complete corruption of the government, were more important than the religion. Religion gets tamed by a strong secular society; without that, you can always expect the religion to be creepy, strange, and problematic. That doesn't mean the religion is the cause of the problems.
Why do you think religion is at the root of it, rather than the governmental corruption?
| 176 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:24:56pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
So when are the hackers going to hack the government computers in Uganda?
Oh that's right. It's not trendy enough.
It's not even really a problem.
/
| 177 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:25:40pm |
re: #172 bratwurst
Sheesh...if a transgendered person can't get a modicum of decency and respect from the DMV in San Francisco, where are they going to get it?
There was an abortion clinic down the block from me in SF. There were crazy protesters out there all the time. Even in SF. Hate lives everywhere.
| 178 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:26:25pm |
re: #165 Obdicut
Holy shit, there's still someone doing that?
That's so nutso. That's not how sexuality works. Geez.
So wait if they get aroused at the sight of men and women having sex, they must be gay?
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
///Why not show them movies of lesbian porno and gay prono, if a man is more aroused by the second than than the first then you can safely conclude they're gay...
| 179 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:26:50pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
So when are the hackers going to hack the government computers in Uganda?
Oh that's right. It's not trendy enough.
///Does the government even have computers in Uganda?
| 180 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:28:09pm |
re: #172 bratwurst
Sheesh...if a transgendered person can't get a modicum of decency and respect from the DMV in San Francisco, where are they going to get it?
I don't know, but not from the DMV in San Francisco. I've BEEN to the DMV in San Francisco.
| 181 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:30:02pm |
re: #175 Obdicut
Oh, I forgot to mention all the drug kingpins that operate in the company with the assent of the government. And the kidnappers and other insane criminals.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 182 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:31:16pm |
re: #178 jamesfirecat
So wait if they get aroused at the sight of men and women having sex, they must be gay?
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
///Why not show them movies of lesbian porno and gay prono, if a man is more aroused by the second than than the first then you can safely conclude they're gay...
| 183 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:32:06pm |
re: #175 Obdicut
I haven't seen anyone assert that. However, it's obvious that having a company run a government is terrible for the people of that nation. It's still an evil, even if there are other evils competing.
I'd say you were wrong. I'd say the history of exploitation, colonialism, and neocolonialism, combined with the complete corruption of the government, were more important than the religion. Religion gets tamed by a strong secular society; without that, you can always expect the religion to be creepy, strange, and problematic. That doesn't mean the religion is the cause of the problems.
Why do you think religion is at the root of it, rather than the governmental corruption?
I agree with you. These people use religion as a tool to further their own ambitions.
They are no different than Al Qaeda, Hamas or Hizbollah. This is about power. Religion is the hammer.
That said, Gus is right. As far as the average guy on the street is concerned, he's doing God's work. The problem is twofold: The SOB's in power and the SOB's who convince themselves they are behaving morally. These are two separate and distinct problems.
Other repressive regimes are understood by their citizens to be repressive. Nigerians, among the citizens of some other nations are under the religious ether.
| 184 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:33:02pm |
re: #179 jamesfirecat
///Does the government even have computers in Uganda?
I hear abacus hacking is really, really tough.
/
| 185 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:33:12pm |
re: #175 Obdicut
I haven't seen anyone assert that. However, it's obvious that having a company run a government is terrible for the people of that nation. It's still an evil, even if there are other evils competing.
I'd say you were wrong. I'd say the history of exploitation, colonialism, and neocolonialism, combined with the complete corruption of the government, were more important than the religion. Religion gets tamed by a strong secular society; without that, you can always expect the religion to be creepy, strange, and problematic. That doesn't mean the religion is the cause of the problems.
Why do you think religion is at the root of it, rather than the governmental corruption?
Oops, I meant "but" not "bud".
What was the influence of the Church of England and colonialism in Nigeria? What was the political and cultural state of Nigeria prior to English and Portuguese colonialism? I'm not really interested in their past history as much as I am with their current state at this time.
| 186 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:34:41pm |
re: #182 goddamnedfrank
Heh, I've seen this quoted. I wonder - did they strap them to the chair or something? /
| 187 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:34:44pm |
re: #183 researchok
Huh? Nigerians know their government sucks and is corrupt.
| 188 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:34:47pm |
re: #185 Gus 802
Oops, I meant "but" not "bud".
What was the influence of the Church of England and colonialism in Nigeria? What was the political and cultural state of Nigeria prior to English and Portuguese colonialism? I'm not really interested in their past history as much as I am with their current state at this time.
See my 183.
| 189 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:35:07pm |
Is al-Qaeda working in Nigeria?
Mohammed Yusuf, leader of the Islamic sect whose members staged attacks across north Nigeria leaving 700 people dead last week, was facing charges that he had received money from an al-Qaeda linked organisation, defence analysts have revealed.
For years diplomats have feared a Nigerian al-Qaeda sleeper cell might launch attacks on the country's oil infrastructure, which is increasingly important to the US.
Nigeria, with its large number of impoverished, disenfranchised and devoutly Muslim young men, easy access to weapons and endemic corruption may seem to be the ideal breeding ground for anti-western radicals.
The presence of an al-Qaeda branch operating across the Sahara Desert in Mauritania, Morocco, Mali and Niger and Nigeria's porous borders have sharpened such fears.
Continues.
| 190 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:35:28pm |
re: #164 researchok
10 guys cross dressing makes news but FGM, the stoning of women, etc., does not.
Agenda, anyone?
They were wearing white after Labor Day.
| 191 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:36:04pm |
NASA made a photo of a Sun smiley. Warning: 2 megabytes.
| 192 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:36:08pm |
re: #187 Obdicut
Huh? Nigerians know their government sucks and is corrupt.
The Muslim population wants a Sharia state to replace what they have now. They see that as 'healthy'.
| 193 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:36:44pm |
re: #185 Gus 802
The current state of Nigeria is that it's got a completely corrupt government; some are simply in the pocket of Shell, others are drug kingpins, others are part of other organized crime units, others are typical petty bureaucrat-kingpins, others are literal slave traders, etc. etc. Yes, the Muslim sub-states also have repressive Sharia law. That's not in any way the origin of the problems of Nigeria. The problem is a completely corrupt government.
| 194 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:37:13pm |
re: #188 researchok
See my 183.
Of course the argument would be "get rid of the Western influence in Nigeria and you'll get rid of al-Qaeda and other radical elements."
| 195 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:37:42pm |
re: #192 researchok
In reality, there is very little in the way of government in Nigeria.
Tribalism trumps national interests, always.
| 196 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:38:02pm |
| 197 |
Buck Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:38:35pm |
re: #186 Sergey Romanov
Heh, I've seen this quoted. I wonder - did they strap them to the chair or something? /
I saw the movie.... Clockwork Orange.
| 198 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:38:56pm |
re: #192 researchok
The Muslim population wants a Sharia state to replace what they have now. They see that as 'healthy'.
I have no clue why you guys want to focus on the Muslim aspect instead of the general breakdown of the state. You know Nigeria is like 1/2 Christian, right? And that the Christians in government are just as corrupt?
| 199 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:39:09pm |
re: #194 Gus 802
Of course the argument would be "get rid of the Western influence in Nigeria and you'll get rid of al-Qaeda and other radical elements."
From whom would that argument come?
| 200 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:39:26pm |
re: #194 Gus 802
Of course the argument would be "get rid of the Western influence in Nigeria and you'll get rid of al-Qaeda and other radical elements."
And I lost a tooth.
I'm expecting a quarter from the tooth apparition (See? I can be very PC)
| 201 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:39:45pm |
re: #193 Obdicut
The current state of Nigeria is that it's got a completely corrupt government; some are simply in the pocket of Shell, others are drug kingpins, others are part of other organized crime units, others are typical petty bureaucrat-kingpins, others are literal slave traders, etc. etc. Yes, the Muslim sub-states also have repressive Sharia law. That's not in any way the origin of the problems of Nigeria. The problem is a completely corrupt government.
See #189. 700 dead as the result of al-Qaeda sleepers cells. That doesn't seem to be as a result of a "completely corrupt government." I'm sure some would say it might be a result of a corrupt government. My other point would be that governments are a reflection of the people and their culture. The people are the egg and the government is the chicken.
| 203 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:40:22pm |
re: #198 Obdicut
I have no clue why you guys want to focus on the Muslim aspect instead of the general breakdown of the state. You know Nigeria is like 1/2 Christian, right? And that the Christians in government are just as corrupt?
It might have something to do with the level of violence.
In Nigeria, that is a huge problem.
| 204 |
Obdicut Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:40:30pm |
re: #201 Gus 802
Okay, I can see there's no point in talking to you about this.
Have a good night.
The Christian portion of the government in Nigeria is just as corrupt as the Muslims.
| 205 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:42:05pm |
re: #204 Obdicut
Okay, I can see there's no point in talking to you about this.
Have a good night.
The Christian portion of the government in Nigeria is just as corrupt as the Muslims.
Why do you have to get so worked about this?
| 207 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:42:45pm |
re: #204 Obdicut
Okay, I can see there's no point in talking to you about this.
Have a good night.
The Christian portion of the government in Nigeria is just as corrupt as the Muslims.
They may be corrupt. They are nowhere near as violent.
Many of their communities are under siege and have been for years.
| 208 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:43:32pm |
re: #198 Obdicut
I have no clue why you guys want to focus on the Muslim aspect instead of the general breakdown of the state. You know Nigeria is like 1/2 Christian, right? And that the Christians in government are just as corrupt?
In the 60's, Chinua Achebe's novels pretty much described the popular wisdom on this. He saw the roots of corruption in the conflict between strong residual tribal obligations and imperfectly-established formal (Western) rules of behavior.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 209 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:44:01pm |
| 210 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:44:09pm |
re: #149 researchok
What I find most interesting is how excited people get without thinking through the ramifications. Let me give you an idea of what I mean.
Suppose you were invited to a party. You want to go of course, but rather than rush headlong into traffic and ignoring the rules of the road and traffic signals, you understand that kind of behavior is more than a little dangerous and fraught with consequences and unintended consequences.
Actually, if anyone rushed headlong into traffic it was the U.S. Government & commercial interests (emphasis mine):
...ARPANET was one of the eve networks of today's Internet. In an independent development, Donald Davies at the UK National Physical Laboratory also discovered the concept of packet switching in the early 1960s, first giving a talk on the subject in 1965, after which the teams in the new field from two sides of the Atlantic ocean first became acquainted. It was actually Davies' coinage of the wording "packet" and "packet switching" that was adopted as the standard terminology. Davies also built a packet switched network in the UK called the Mark I in 1970. Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN), the private contractors for ARPANET, set out to create a separate commercial version after establishing "value added carriers" was legalized in the U.S. The network they established was called Telenet and began operation in 1975, installing free public dial-up access in cities throughout the U.S. Telenet was the first packet-switching network open to the general public.
[...}
The opening of the NSFNET to other networks began in 1988. The US Federal Networking Council approved the interconnection of the NSFNET to the commercial MCI Mail system in that year and the link was made in the summer of 1989. Other commercial electronic mail services were soon connected, including OnTyme, Telemail and Compuserve. In that same year, three commercial Internet service providers (ISPs) began operations: UUNET, PSINet, and CERFNET. Important, separate networks that offered gateways into, then later merged with, the Internet include Usenet and BITNET. Various other commercial and educational networks, such as Telenet (by that time renamed to Sprintnet), Tymnet, Compuserve and JANET were interconnected with the growing Internet in the 1980s as the TCP/IP protocol became increasingly popular. The adaptability of TCP/IP to existing communication networks allowed for rapid growth. The open availability of the specifications and reference code permitted commercial vendors to build interoperable network components, such as routers, making standardized network gear available from many companies. This aided in the rapid growth of the Internet and the proliferation of local-area networking. It seeded the widespread implementation and rigorous standardization of TCP/IP on UNIX and virtually every other common operating system.
| 212 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:44:42pm |
Nigeria is the next pile of crap to deal with...easy pickins for AQ and they are just as determined to take down Nigeria as any other country
| 213 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:45:49pm |
re: #208 Decatur Deb
In the 60's, Chinua Achebe's novels pretty much described the popular wisdom on this. He saw the roots of corruption in the conflict between strong residual tribal obligations and imperfectly-established formal (Western) rules of behavior.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
I read "things fall apart" in school.
Was a "different" novel for lack of a better word, do his other two books directly tie into it?
| 214 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:45:57pm |
| 215 |
karmic_inquisitor Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:46:10pm |
re: #167 Gus 802
Bud does anyone honestly think that if one were to either a) turn Shell Oil into this highly ethical organization or b) get rid of Shell Oil in Nigeria is actually going to solve their problems? I doubt it. Nigerias faults are far greater than Shell Oil. And given the history of recent conflicts I would venture to say that most of their problems are cause by r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n. And it's not the church from Salt Lake City.
Agree.
Then there is the issue of where Shell is based - in the EU. In the Netherlands.
There seems to be this unrelenting assumption that companies and governments in the EU are more moral, ethical or democratic than in the US. For anyone familiar with the reality, it is a patently absurd assumption - it would be like me asserting/assuming that oak trees are more moral than pines.
Mega multinationals become instruments of the states that they develop from. Those states extend them privileges as banal as special tax deductions and environmental exemptions in exchange for favors that states demand of those multinationals. If anyone thinks that states are not beyond using state power to secure contracts for their companies they simply don't understand what states do. And if they don't think that government officials don't insist that "one hand wash the other" in terms of doing states favors internationally (like allowing a new "employee" to be placed at a particular jobsite in a particular country) then they are unaware of an entire playing field in which extra-legal things take place on behalf of the citizens of different countries.
Such privileges and understandings extend to the use of diplomatic pouches from time to time as well. Is it corrupt? I suppose so. But at that moment we exploit that corruption through businesses that operate in place that we "refuse to do business in" in order to try to free people from some terrible tyrants.
And when it is the government coordinating it, it really isn't illegal. It is called "statecraft". The Europeans call it "soft power" and wish the US had done more of these distasteful, unscrupulous, illegal, unethical, amoral things in Iraq rather than invading the place.
| 216 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:46:54pm |
Just to drive the point a little further.
Toll From Religious and Ethnic Violence in Nigeria Rises to 500
DAKAR, Senegal — Officials and human rights groups in Nigeria sharply increased the count of the dead after a weekend of vicious ethnic violence, saying Monday that as many as 500 people — many of them women and children — may have been killed near the city of Jos, long a center of tensions between Christians and Muslims.
The dead were Christians and members of an ethnic group that had been feuding with the Hausa-Fulani, Muslim herders whom witnesses and police officials identified as the attackers. Officials said the attack was in reprisal for violence in January, when dozens of Muslims were slaughtered in and around Jos, including more than 150 in one village.
Early Sunday, the attackers set upon the villagers with machetes, killing women and children in their homes and ensnaring the men who tried to flee in fishnets and animal traps, then massacring them, according to a Nigerian rights group whose investigators went to the area. Some homes were set on fire.
The latest attacks were “a sort of vengeance from the Hausa-Fulani,” said the Rev. Emmanuel Joel, of the Christian Association of Nigeria in Jos. After the January attacks, “the military watched over the city, and neglected the villages,” he said.
The attackers “began to massacre as early as 4 a.m.,” Mr. Joel said. “They began to slaughter the people like animals.”
Continues.
| 217 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:47:03pm |
re: #213 jamesfirecat
I read "things fall apart" in school.
Was a "different" novel for lack of a better word, do his other two books directly tie into it?
I read it in high school--didn't get it at all.
Read it again a couple of years ago, and it made much more sense to me.
| 218 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:47:13pm |
re: #211 Gus 802
Agree with me or else!
//
I try to, but you have to reverse the favor you know....pretty soon we will be a mob of two
| 219 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:47:46pm |
re: #193 Obdicut
Yes, the Muslim sub-states also have repressive Sharia law. That's not in any way the origin of the problems of Nigeria. The problem is a completely corrupt government.
I think we can agree that Sharia has been a symptom, a metastase. But now that it's instituted, doesn't it overshadow whatever caused it?
| 220 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:47:51pm |
re: #160 Obdicut
No. There's plenty of other ugliness there.
But Shell really has been fucking over Nigeria forever, including colluding with military dictators to outright shoot people. This has gone on forever.
We should care about that, especially given how many Shell stockholders are from the US.
Then again, we should also care that Saudi Arabia is an oppressive semi-theocratic oligarchy, but they're our allies.
And we should care about the crushing poverty that affects so many in Appalachia.
And we should care about our incredibly high prison population.
Can someone order some more caring, please?
OK, I agree wholeheartedly that there's plenty of ugliness we need to care about. I try to do my bit locally.
But Obdi - Shell Oil is colluding to murder people? Really?
| 221 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:48:12pm |
re: #216 Gus 802
Just to drive the point a little further.
Toll From Religious and Ethnic Violence in Nigeria Rises to 500
And then there's this.
| 222 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:48:19pm |
re: #218 albusteve
I try to, but you have to reverse the favor you know...pretty soon we will be a mob of two
You know me. I always have that BLUE PILL handy. I can turn at any moment.
;)
| 223 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:48:38pm |
| 224 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:49:20pm |
re: #222 Gus 802
You know me. I always have that BLUE PILL handy. I can turn at any moment.
;)
I have the brown ones...we're good to go
| 225 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:50:06pm |
re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist
And then there's this.
That's the same incident. The NYT reported it as:
The dead were Christians and members of an ethnic group that had been feuding with the Hausa-Fulani, Muslim herders whom witnesses and police officials identified as the attackers. Officials said the attack was in reprisal for violence in January, when dozens of Muslims were slaughtered in and around Jos, including more than 150 in one village.
| 226 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:50:14pm |
re: #213 jamesfirecat
I read "things fall apart" in school.
Was a "different" novel for lack of a better word, do his other two books directly tie into it?
TFA was his major work, his others of that time followed similar themes. Our Anthro Dept head was an Africanist, so we got the whole dose. It look like he might have picked up more current topics in a long career. Note TFA is titled from Yeats.
| 227 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:51:00pm |
re: #223 reine.de.tout
Not sure.
to weezy to go back up up thread, but I've wondered about Nigeria for a long time....the pristine river delta is at supreme risk
| 228 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:51:10pm |
re: #208 Decatur Deb
In the 60's, Chinua Achebe's novels pretty much described the popular wisdom on this. He saw the roots of corruption in the conflict between strong residual tribal obligations and imperfectly-established formal (Western) rules of behavior.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
He is a genius.
| 229 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:51:15pm |
I take a couple uppers
I down a couple downers
But nothing compares
To these blue and yellow purple pills
Oh, wait... Wrong blog. Sorry.
////
| 230 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:51:30pm |
re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist
I read it in high school--didn't get it at all.
Read it again a couple of years ago, and it made much more sense to me.
I think I sort of got it... or maybe from my privileged upper middle class WASP background the only message I took away from it is that the Western view of the world is awesome compared to the yam farmers with regressive sexual policies...
(I mean the church missionaries were only doing good things in that novel the last time I checked, which was about 7 years ago...)
| 231 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:51:52pm |
Unless it was 364 Muslims dead plus 500 Christians dead.
Which goes back to my original cause. R-e-l-i-g-i-o-n.
| 232 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:52:12pm |
| 233 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:52:47pm |
re: #225 Gus 802
That's the same incident. The NYT reported it as:
The dead were Christians and members of an ethnic group that had been feuding with the Hausa-Fulani, Muslim herders whom witnesses and police officials identified as the attackers. Officials said the attack was in reprisal for violence in January, when dozens of Muslims were slaughtered in and around Jos, including more than 150 in one village.
the unending cycle of reprisals are an AQ specialty....once the ball is rolling, and it is, it will not end....ever
| 234 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:54:05pm |
re: #226 Decatur Deb
TFA was his major work, his others of that time followed similar themes. Our Anthro Dept head was an Africanist, so we got the whole dose. It look like he might have picked up more current topics in a long career. Note TFA is titled from Yeats.
Well yeah, the part of the poem was on the inside jacket on the book.
Things fall apart the center can not hold, what rough slouching beast makes its way towards Bethlehem, its hour come round at last ... that's the most I remember of it.
| 235 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:54:42pm |
re: #233 albusteve
the unending cycle of reprisals are an AQ specialty...once the ball is rolling, and it is, it will not end...ever
Yep. And in this case, religion pretty much equals tribe. Not that we sophisticated Irish would ever fall for that.
| 236 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:54:47pm |
re: #231 Gus 802
Unless it was 364 Muslims dead plus 500 Christians dead.
Which goes back to my original cause. R-e-l-i-g-i-o-n.
Yeah. This is the earlier incident, the one you posted was the reprisal.
| 237 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:54:58pm |
re: #233 albusteve
the unending cycle of reprisals are an AQ specialty...once the ball is rolling, and it is, it will not end...ever
Seems like this was sectarian violence. The AQ attack was a separate event. They both of course have religious roots.
| 238 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:56:18pm |
re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah. This is the earlier incident, the one you posted was the reprisal.
Now we need a chronology and a quick study! Hmm. Maybe not.
| 239 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:57:28pm |
re: #237 Gus 802
Seems like this was sectarian violence. The AQ attack was a separate event. They both of course have religious roots.
violence is cool these days in the Third World...call it whatever you want but religion is usually the get away car....forensically speaking, you might start there to unwind the crime
| 240 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:57:39pm |
re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah. This is the earlier incident, the one you posted was the reprisal.
See. When things move so fast it's hard to read everything. Here's that at the end of the NY Times article:
Mr. Sani said the latest violence strongly resembled the killings in January. At that time, one predominantly Muslim village, Kuru Karama, was virtually wiped out, and bodies were thrown into pits and latrines.
| 241 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:57:55pm |
re: #231 Gus 802
Which goes back to my original cause. R-e-l-i-g-i-o-n.
Do you honestly believe that if religion disappeared tomorrow humans beings would suddenly become perfectly rational and stop slaughtering each other? I don't buy that. I think people would just find some other justification.
| 242 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:57:56pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
So when are the hackers going to hack the government computers in Uganda?
Oh that's right. It's not trendy enough.
Or perhaps because they weren't aware of it, or perhaps they never thought of that approach, or perhaps pulling a DOS attack on those servers would be useless because the government doesn't make money through people visiting their site. Or perhaps, just maybe, attacking Uganda's governmental computer systems could make things worse for the people. Attacking VISA and Paypal isn't likely to cause physical pain to people.
If you're going to go all outrageous outrage maybe try keeping the subjects reasonably similar.
| 243 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:58:03pm |
re: #210 CuriousLurker
Actually, if anyone rushed headlong into traffic it was the U.S. Government & commercial interests (emphasis mine):
No question governments/corporations often 'look before they leap'.
My interests are more micro- the 'little guy'.
A few years ago I visited some Middle East countries. I was warmly received, treated with much hospitality and made to feel most welcome.
What fascinated me is how people believed they were becoming 'equivalent' to western nations simply because they adopted western technologies, customs and even fashion- as if that alone were the measure of the leap into modernity.
I had some fascinating conversations. I explained my belief that consuming nations are not the same as producing nations. My hosts conceded that. In some cultures, appearances trump all. They all admitted to that.
My hosts talked about their revulsion to western values. They saw Hollywood, western lifestyles as values they objected. I explained there was a great distinction between values and culture. Western values are centered around democratic principles. Culture is transient and an entirely different matter.
In any event, people in different places react to and adapt to technology and modernity in different ways. Ultimately, it is education and freedom that shape societies in a positive way.
The conversations are fascinating.
| 244 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:58:47pm |
re: #241 CuriousLurker
Do you honestly believe that if religion disappeared tomorrow humans beings would suddenly become perfectly rational and stop slaughtering each other? I don't buy that. I think people would just find some other justification.
Well. That's the card we're being dealt with here. Everything else would be a hypothetical.
| 245 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:58:56pm |
Returning to Assange for a bit.
How do you suppose a decision will be made as to where to extradite him? After all, it seems the Swedish charges aren't going anywhere. Do they take precedence?
| 246 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:59:16pm |
re: #241 CuriousLurker
Do you honestly believe that if religion disappeared tomorrow humans beings would suddenly become perfectly rational and stop slaughtering each other? I don't buy that. I think people would just find some other justification.
You are right- but it is also true religion can and has facilitated murder.
| 247 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 3:59:19pm |
re: #241 CuriousLurker
Do you honestly believe that if religion disappeared tomorrow humans beings would suddenly become perfectly rational and stop slaughtering each other? I don't buy that. I think people would just find some other justification.
I'd take the chance with the disappearance angle
| 248 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:00:24pm |
re: #247 albusteve
I'd take the chance with the disappearance angle
Yeah. Unless of course it's some anti-abortion Christian groups in the USA. Or the Catholic church and the priest scandals. Then it's OK to bring up religion.
| 249 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:00:26pm |
re: #242 b_sharp
Or perhaps because they weren't aware of it, or perhaps they never thought of that approach, or perhaps pulling a DOS attack on those servers would be useless because the government doesn't make money through people visiting their site. Or perhaps, just maybe, attacking Uganda's governmental computer systems could make things worse for the people. Attacking VISA and Paypal isn't likely to cause physical pain to people.
If you're going to go all outrageous outrage maybe try keeping the subjects reasonably similar.
darn!...I missed that part
| 250 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:00:40pm |
re: #176 researchok
It's not even really a problem.
/
Why don't you two give this poorly dressed and accelerant soaked straw man a rest.
| 251 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:00:42pm |
re: #241 CuriousLurker
Do you honestly believe that if religion disappeared tomorrow humans beings would suddenly become perfectly rational and stop slaughtering each other? I don't buy that. I think people would just find some other justification.
All I know is you can't trust a fucking ginger.
| 252 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:00:50pm |
re: #245 Sergey Romanov
Returning to Assange for a bit.
How do you suppose a decision will be made as to where to extradite him? After all, it seems the Swedish charges aren't going anywhere. Do they take precedence?
What is the charges we're filling against him? Have they been announced yet?
| 253 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:01:19pm |
re: #245 Sergey Romanov
Returning to Assange for a bit.
How do you suppose a decision will be made as to where to extradite him? After all, it seems the Swedish charges aren't going anywhere. Do they take precedence?
My suspicion is that the deal to extradite him from Sweden has already been made behind the scenes but as someone pointed out upthread that getting the Swedish legal system to agree to a backroom deal is kind of far fetched.
| 254 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:01:45pm |
re: #252 jamesfirecat
What is the charges we're filling against him? Have they been announced yet?
Rumors go that it's espionage. But would the nature of the charges matter in the decision?
| 255 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:01:53pm |
1000s dead because of sectarian violence in Nigeria.
It's not religion!
//
| 257 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:02:37pm |
re: #255 Gus 802
1000s dead because of sectarian violence in Nigeria.
It's not religion!
//
for the last time...the Civil War was NOT about slavery
| 258 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:03:12pm |
re: #246 researchok
You are right- but it is also true religion can and has facilitated murder.
I don't deny that, but so have a lot of other things (greed, empire building, tribalism, politics, etc.) I guess my point was that I seriously doubt groups like AQ or Hamas would stop doing what they do if religion went away.
| 259 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:04:23pm |
re: #253 Killgore Trout
My suspicion is that the deal to extradite him from Sweden has already been made behind the scenes but as someone pointed out upthread that getting the Swedish legal system to agree to a backroom deal is kind of far fetched.
On the assumption that technicalities won't be circumvented, and on the further assumption that he goes to prison for the sex charges, wouldn't that mean that he would be extradited (if!) only after X years?
| 260 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:04:27pm |
re: #255 Gus 802
1000s dead because of sectarian violence in Nigeria.
It's not religion!
//
Of course it is. In part. It's also tribal, which means there's land and water and such involved. And politics.
| 261 |
jamesfirecat Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:04:37pm |
re: #254 Sergey Romanov
Rumors go that it's espionage. But would the nature of the charges matter in the decision?
Doesn't our agreement with Switzerland say they don't have to/don't extradite people to us for espionage charges?
I heard somebody here say that....
| 262 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:04:40pm |
re: #255 Gus 802
1000s dead because of sectarian violence in Nigeria.
It's not religion!
//
Religion is part of the syndrome. Throw in tribalism, nationalism, even Marxism and you get a pretty unstable mix.
| 263 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:05:06pm |
re: #258 CuriousLurker
I don't deny that, but so have a lot of other things (greed, empire building, tribalism, politics, etc.) I guess my point was that I seriously doubt groups like AQ or Hamas would stop doing what they do if religion went away.
sounds like holy jihad to me
| 264 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:06:07pm |
re: #261 jamesfirecat
Doesn't our agreement with Switzerland say they don't have to/don't extradite people to us for espionage charges?
I heard somebody here say that...
(Do you mean Sweden?)
I don't know.
| 265 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:06:42pm |
re: #247 albusteve
I'd take the chance with the disappearance angle
I wouldn't. I know a few people who, if their religion wasn't holding them back, could be serious troublemakers. Not murderers, but still.
| 266 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:07:15pm |
re: #251 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
All I know is you can't trust a fucking ginger.
I have no idea what that means, but okay!
| 267 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:07:34pm |
Swedes, Swiss, Swaziland, they're all the same...
/
| 268 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:07:41pm |
IMHO, religion is the the "root of all evil", but it sure as hell adds the fire and brimstone to the mix.
| 269 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:08:00pm |
re: #265 CuriousLurker
I wouldn't. I know a few people who, if their religion wasn't holding them back, could be serious troublemakers. Not murderers, but still.
Well. It's not exactly an attainable goal anyway. It might evolve into non-existence but we won't be around to find out.
| 270 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:08:29pm |
| 271 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:08:31pm |
re: #248 Gus 802
Yeah. Unless of course it's some anti-abortion Christian groups in the USA. Or the Catholic church and the priest scandals. Then it's OK to bring up religion.
I don't think Christianity being gone would solve those things either.
| 272 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:09:01pm |
re: #265 CuriousLurker
I wouldn't. I know a few people who, if their religion wasn't holding them back, could be serious troublemakers. Not murderers, but still.
Brendan Behan believed in the saving power of religion:
"If it weren't for the booze and the bishops, the Irish would fuck themselves to death."
| 273 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:09:13pm |
re: #259 Sergey Romanov
On the assumption that technicalities won't be circumvented, and on the further assumption that he goes to prison for the sex charges, wouldn't that mean that he would be extradited (if!) only after X years?
I'm not sure. If I had to guess I'd say they drop the the rape charges and ship him to the US.
| 274 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:09:41pm |
re: #245 Sergey Romanov
Returning to Assange for a bit.
How do you suppose a decision will be made as to where to extradite him? After all, it seems the Swedish charges aren't going anywhere. Do they take precedence?
The Swedes will hand him to the US if the UK doesn't .
| 275 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:09:43pm |
| 276 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:09:53pm |
re: #255 Gus 802
1000s dead because of sectarian violence in Nigeria.
It's not religion!
//
You seem kinda hostile lately, Gus. I didn't say it wasn't religion, I said if it wasn't religion, it would be something else.
| 277 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:10:20pm |
re: #269 Gus 802
Well. It's not exactly an attainable goal anyway. It might evolve into non-existence but we won't be around to find out.
the new beast is politico/religion
| 278 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:10:59pm |
re: #276 CuriousLurker
You seem kinda hostile lately, Gus. I didn't say it wasn't religion, I said if it wasn't religion, it would be something else.
Hostile is too strong a word. More like perplexed and it started with Assange/Wikileaks.
| 279 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:11:42pm |
re: #273 Killgore Trout
I'm not sure. If I had to guess I'd say they drop the the rape charges and ship him to the US.
But that would depend on the judge - if the charges weren't a ruse in the first place. And if they were a ruse, Rube Goldberg applauds - would be much simpler to ship him off from UK.
| 281 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:13:33pm |
re: #278 Gus 802
Hostile is too strong a word. More like perplexed and it started with Assange/Wikileaks.
A lot of arm chair anarchists.
| 282 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:13:36pm |
| 283 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:13:41pm |
| 284 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:14:36pm |
| 285 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:14:50pm |
re: #283 CuriousLurker
Well that describes my dad and about 1/3 of my half-siblings. I guess I should be very, very afraid.
They have a problem with being stigmatized and bullied in the UK. Which seems surprising, considering their numbers there.
| 286 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:15:27pm |
re: #285 prairiefire
They have a problem with being stigmatized and bullied in the UK. Which seems surprising, considering their numbers there.
Bloody Vikings.
| 287 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:16:16pm |
| 288 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:16:26pm |
| 289 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:16:28pm |
re: #285 prairiefire
They have a problem with being stigmatized and bullied in the UK. Which seems surprising, considering their numbers there.
Probably mistaken for illegal Irish gardeners and nannies.
| 290 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:16:40pm |
re: #268 Sergey Romanov
IMHO, religion is the the "root of all evil", but it sure as hell adds the fire and brimstone to the mix.
Well, religion is just a myth to you atheists, right? Human beings seem to have been creating myths since they learned how to communicate with each other, so they'd just make up some new myths.
| 291 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:17:13pm |
| 292 |
researchok Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:17:22pm |
re: #258 CuriousLurker
I don't deny that, but so have a lot of other things (greed, empire building, tribalism, politics, etc.) I guess my point was that I seriously doubt groups like AQ or Hamas would stop doing what they do if religion went away.
For sure.
Planes aren’t flown into buildings in response to GDP of the free markets of the western world versus the GDP of the many tyrannies. In fact, the terrorists aims are deliberately misrepresented. The terrorists don’t want to see western values and successes brought into those societies. Indeed, that is what they are fighting against. Religious freedoms, abortion rights, gay rights and human rights are anathema to radical religious ideologies.
Often, those ideologies demands the murder of those whose behavior they find offensive- usually administred in a cruel and brutal fashion. These are truths many manage to forget. What serves to undermine a society and thus the natural order of things, is an agenda deliberately calculated to undermine a healthy society . Whether it is political or religious, a shrewdly devised agenda will do just that.
It was a clever agenda devised under Mao, that fueled the 'Cultural Revolution.' Millions of teenage and young adult students tore through the Chinese countryside and destroyed the vestiges of a mosaic of thousand year old cultures. It was a similar ideology that was used by Stalin, as children learned to inform on their parents and that same ideology worked for Hitler. As millions of Germans filled stadiums screaming loyalty to the Aryan races and the Hitler's plan to clarify and codify the Aryan God's plan for mankind.
If the terrorists, religious ideologues, their supporters and apologists really wanted to better the lives of their own, they would use America and the west as a model for success. They would find a way to include American values into their cultures and societies. They would not seek to destroy those western nations. They would not seek to destroy the freedoms that brought that success.
Eliminating poverty does not and cannot change a mindset. Economic status does not determine morality and codes of conduct. Only values, born of dignity and the recognition that all men and women are of equal value, determines morality and codes of conduct. It is ideologies that drives people to exceed their potential for good and it is other deologies that drive people to hate and destroy. Those ideas are not determined by economic status. Terror is driven by an ideology of evil, period. Societies and cultures that embrace those values are broken societies and cultures.
| 293 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:17:55pm |
re: #285 prairiefire
They have a problem with being stigmatized and bullied in the UK. Which seems surprising, considering their numbers there.
Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember reading something about that once. Thanks.
| 294 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:18:19pm |
re: #283 CuriousLurker
Well that describes my dad and about 1/3 of my half-siblings. I guess I should be very, very afraid.
Look here:
[Link: www.myspace.com...]
| 295 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:18:20pm |
re: #283 CuriousLurker
Well that describes my dad and about 1/3 of my half-siblings. I guess I should be very, very afraid.
I have 30-some first cousins, and ONE is a ginger. He was already making jokes about the mailman when he was 8 years old [...where'd ya get that red hair...?] I saw an old man once say "Heya Red!" to him and he came back with "Heya White!"
| 296 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:18:26pm |
re: #278 Gus 802
Hostile is too strong a word. More like perplexed and it started with Assange/Wikileaks.
I want the old Gus back. ;)
| 297 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:19:35pm |
re: #290 CuriousLurker
Well, religion is just a myth to you atheists, right? Human beings seem to have been creating myths since they learned how to communicate with each other, so they'd just make up some new myths.
Heck. Meant to write: "NOT the root of all evil". Otherwise the sentence doesn't make much sense.
| 298 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:20:08pm |
| 299 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:20:18pm |
re: #59 Walter L. Newton
Tell her hi for me... and congrats. I was really concerned that after your visit that she was all ready to become a gold prospector... I'm glad she changed her mind and opted for the violin :)
Thanks, Walter, I will. Yeah, I will steer her clear of being a gold digger! I have taught her the difference between 10K, 14K, and 18K.
| 300 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:21:44pm |
re: #296 CuriousLurker
I want the old Gus back. ;)
You mean people have noticed?
"What the heck happened with Gus?"
/
| 301 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:22:33pm |
re: #284 Walter L. Newton
Don't type "ginger girl" into Google images... NSFW and I see nothing inferior about what pops up.
Walta!...how are you?
| 302 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:23:50pm |
re: #268 Sergey Romanov
IMHO, religion is
thenot the "root of all evil", but it sure as hell adds the fire and brimstone to the mix.
F.P.I.M.F.F.
| 303 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:23:55pm |
re: #300 Gus 802
You mean people have noticed?
"What the heck happened with Gus?"
/
maybe he's colorblind?....brown will appear to be blue
| 304 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:25:29pm |
re: #295 wrenchwench
I have 30-some first cousins, and ONE is a ginger. He was already making jokes about the mailman when he was 8 years old [...where'd ya get that red hair...?] I saw an old man once say "Heya Red!" to him and he came back with "Heya White!"
LOL!
| 305 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:25:50pm |
re: #300 Gus 802
You mean people have noticed?
"What the heck happened with Gus?"
/
"Why is he wearing that XXXLLL t-shirt?"
| 306 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:26:35pm |
re: #278 Gus 802
Hostile is too strong a word. More like perplexed and it started with Assange/Wikileaks.
Me too but try not to let it get you down. Assange supporters are a few vocal lunatics on the internet and not much else. Here's a meat world poll to help with perspective....
Poll: People behind WikiLeaks should be prosecuted
The survey found that 70 percent of Americans think the leaks are doing more harm than good by allowing America's enemies to see confidential and secret information about U.S. foreign policy.Just 22 percent think the leaks are doing more good than harm by making the U.S. government more transparent and accountable, the stated goal of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.
| 308 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:27:08pm |
re: #290 CuriousLurker
Well, religion is just a myth to you atheists, right? Human beings seem to have been creating myths since they learned how to communicate with each other, so they'd just make up some new myths.
Religion is a little different than other myths in that the idea of an all powerful being who can reward or punish well beyond the physical realm is the ultimate motivator. It jacks in to the whole fear of death and trust of an authority figure primal emotion complex.
| 309 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:27:39pm |
re: #298 ozbloke
We are a crude uneducated bunch.
I dunno, the Australians I've met have all been pretty cool folks. A little rowdy maybe, but very friendly. :o)
| 310 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:27:45pm |
re: #301 albusteve
Walta!...how are you?
Winding down form a productive week. Had five days off (Kroger is putting moist of my hours on the weekends), did some programming for Kaiser from my mountain lair, wrapped up some of the Paris trip details, got some Euro's, watched some movies, and getting ready for a busy weekend at the supermarket.
Kroger cut hours right before Christmas. So I'm only getting my minimum... about 22 hours. They got me working tomorrow morning 6-12 in general merchandise and then Sat. and Sun. nights overnight, baby sitting the self scan station and stocking.
Then 5 days off again... rinse... repeat.
| 311 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:28:40pm |
re: #305 wrenchwench
"Why is he wearing that XXXLLL t-shirt?"
Okay, I must've missed out on one of those you-had-to-be-there thread jokes...
| 312 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:28:48pm |
re: #306 Killgore Trout
Me too but try not to let it get you down. Assange supporters are a few vocal lunatics on the internet and not much else. Here's a meat world poll to help with perspective...
Poll: People behind WikiLeaks should be prosecuted
That's good to hear.
Of course there's more to it than that but I don't want to talk my problems right now.
| 313 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:29:41pm |
re: #310 Walter L. Newton
Winding down form a productive week. Had five days off (Kroger is putting moist of my hours on the weekends), did some programming for Kaiser from my mountain lair, wrapped up some of the Paris trip details, got some Euro's, watched some movies, and getting ready for a busy weekend at the supermarket.
Kroger cut hours right before Christmas. So I'm only getting my minimum... about 22 hours. They got me working tomorrow morning 6-12 in general merchandise and then Sat. and Sun. nights overnight, baby sitting the self scan station and stocking.
Then 5 days off again... rinse... repeat.
it's still a fair amount of beans...I spent my last five days off in the hospital, and I wasn't even paid for it
| 314 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:31:51pm |
re: #313 albusteve
it's still a fair amount of beans...I spent my last five days off in the hospital, and I wasn't even paid for it
There's an idea - open up an all you can eat bean restaurant.
| 315 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:32:16pm |
re: #311 CuriousLurker
Okay, I must've missed out on one of those you-had-to-be-there thread jokes...
Reasearchok is responsible for that one....
| 316 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:32:21pm |
re: #306 Killgore Trout
Me too but try not to let it get you down. Assange supporters are a few vocal lunatics on the internet and not much else. Here's a meat world poll to help with perspective...
Poll: People behind WikiLeaks should be prosecuted
I'm with the tar and feather crowd...any other point of view regarding this guy is irrational...I'm not sure what Holder has up his sleeve, but I doubt it amounts to much...the Pentagon Papers Syndrome, and he is a child of that era
| 317 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:33:02pm |
re: #314 b_sharp
There's an idea - open up an all you can eat bean restaurant.
red, black, navy, pinto....the options are endless
| 318 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:33:48pm |
re: #306 Killgore Trout
Me too but try not to let it get you down. Assange supporters are a few vocal lunatics on the internet and not much else. Here's a meat world poll to help with perspective...
Poll: People behind WikiLeaks should be prosecuted
Were you for or against the leaking of Valerie Plame's name?
| 319 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:34:56pm |
re: #309 CuriousLurker
I dunno, the Australians I've met have all been pretty cool folks. A little rowdy maybe, but very friendly. :o)
Only because some of us know how to be on our best behavior.
| 320 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:35:14pm |
re: #313 albusteve
it's still a fair amount of beans...I spent my last five days off in the hospital, and I wasn't even paid for it
Oh... that wasn't a complaint at all... just the facts, jack. What happened to you? Infection again or something?
| 321 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:37:00pm |
re: #313 albusteve
it's still a fair amount of beans...I spent my last five days off in the hospital, and I wasn't even paid for it
Does this have something to do with that wound draining you attempted?
| 322 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:37:57pm |
re: #317 albusteve
red, black, navy, pinto...the options are endless
What about you albusteve, were you for or against the leaking of Valerie Plame's name?
| 323 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:38:14pm |
re: #308 b_sharp
Religion is a little different than other myths in that the idea of an all powerful being who can reward or punish well beyond the physical realm is the ultimate motivator. It jacks in to the whole fear of death and trust of an authority figure primal emotion complex.
Okay, I can agree with you on that if I pretend to be an atheist. But if religion is just a myth, then that would mean that some very clever people with keen insight into human psychology were able to invent super-myths or meta-myths involving this all powerful being, right? So if current religions went away, how long would it be before the next smart guy came along, invented a new super-myth, called himself a prophet, and started a new religion? Not long methinks.
| 324 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:38:36pm |
Lukashenko and Medvedev best buddies again.
[Link: www.prime-tass.com...]
| 325 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:39:09pm |
re: #320 Walter L. Newton
Oh... that wasn't a complaint at all... just the facts, jack. What happened to you? Infection again or something?
yes...they took out a lot of flesh...I have a 5 inch long gash in my leg again, one inch deep....three months of healing down the drain, but what the hell...I almost fainted when I saw it but it's better than the other possibilities
| 326 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:39:47pm |
re: #313 albusteve
it's still a fair amount of beans...I spent my last five days off in the hospital, and I wasn't even paid for it
Sorry to hear that. I hope they (permanently) fixed whatever was wrong.
| 327 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:40:07pm |
re: #325 albusteve
yes...they took out a lot of flesh...I have a 5 inch long gash in my leg again, one inch deep...three months of healing down the drain, but what the hell...I almost fainted when I saw it but it's better than the other possibilities
Stop that :)
| 328 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:41:26pm |
re: #321 wrenchwench
Does this have something to do with that wound draining you attempted?
yes...I failed, but it didn't matter...it had already done a fair amount of damage....nobody seems to know why I'm prone to infection, which is the ultimate buzz kill with regard to surgery....spooky
| 329 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:41:27pm |
My husband is currently explaining magnets to my son.
| 330 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:42:05pm |
| 331 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:42:36pm |
re: #329 prairiefire
My husband is currently explaining magnets to my son.
Please record it and post it, he may be the only one left on the planet who knows how they work.
| 332 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:42:50pm |
re: #326 CuriousLurker
Sorry to hear that. I hope they (permanently) fixed whatever was wrong.
me too...I think we have it this time
| 333 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:43:00pm |
re: #329 prairiefire
My husband is currently explaining magnets to my son.
lol
Is "f'in" involved at all?
| 334 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:43:25pm |
re: #299 prairiefire
Thanks, Walter, I will. Yeah, I will steer her clear of being a gold digger! I have taught her the difference between 10K, 14K, and 18K.
And between diamond and cz, I hope.
| 335 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:44:00pm |
re: #323 CuriousLurker
Okay, I can agree with you on that if I pretend to be an atheist. But if religion is just a myth, then that would mean that some very clever people with keen insight into human psychology were able to invent super-myths or meta-myths involving this all powerful being, right? So if current religions went away, how long would it be before the next smart guy came along, invented a new super-myth, called himself a prophet, and started a new religion? Not long methinks.
Religion fills needs, that's why it is so ubiquitous. If we got rid of current religions, new ones would pop up almost immediately.
As an atheist, what I would like to see is the disappearance of religion through rational thought and education. The needs filled by religion can be filled by other things as is obvious by the existence of atheists. Trying to force religion to disappear would be a huge mistake.
| 336 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:44:04pm |
re: #325 albusteve
Sending good thoughts your way, may 2011 be a better year for you.
| 337 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:44:37pm |
re: #329 prairiefire
My husband is currently explaining magnets to my son.
...and it ends with "I'm not sure why that happens."
| 338 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:44:52pm |
re: #335 b_sharp
Religion fills needs, that's why it is so ubiquitous. If we got rid of current religions, new ones would pop up almost immediately.
As an atheist, what I would like to see is the disappearance of religion through rational thought and education. The needs filled by religion can be filled by other things as is obvious by the existence of atheists. Trying to force religion to disappear would be a huge mistake.
I worship the potato
| 339 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:44:52pm |
re: #318 ozbloke
Were you for or against the leaking of Valerie Plame's name?
I wasn't particularly thrilled with it but that "leak" was probably approved much higher up than Scooter Libby. The government discloses information confidentially to journalists all the time. It's the way things are done sometimes.
| 340 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:45:20pm |
| 341 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:45:23pm |
| 342 |
Kragar Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:45:24pm |
| 343 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:45:41pm |
re: #323 CuriousLurker
Okay, I can agree with you on that if I pretend to be an atheist. But if religion is just a myth,...snip
Your confusion might be based on the word "just". True or false (and most must be false), religion is massively powerful. It will persist as long as it contributes more to the individual and the culture than its cost.
| 344 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:46:10pm |
re: #335 b_sharp
Trying to force religion to disappear would be a huge mistake.
Understatement of the century ;-) "Been there, done that", the pendulum sucks when it's back at ya.
| 345 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:46:21pm |
re: #339 Killgore Trout
I wasn't particularly thrilled with it but that "leak" was probably approved much higher up than Scooter Libby. The government discloses information confidentially to journalists all the time. It's the way things are done sometimes.
I'm still pissed about Scooter...he was used by Fitzgerald bigtime
| 346 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:46:29pm |
re: #325 albusteve
yes...they took out a lot of flesh...I have a 5 inch long gash in my leg again, one inch deep...three months of healing down the drain, but what the hell...I almost fainted when I saw it but it's better than the other possibilities
When do they start replacing the bone with adamantium and the muscles with servos? You might as well become the world's first true cyborg.
| 347 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:47:16pm |
re: #341 reine.de.tout
Hope so, {{Steve}}
you are so sweet....I should come over there and let you feed me
| 348 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:48:13pm |
OK, so leaks for political purposes are OK as long as they're approved by higher-ups. Noted.
| 350 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:49:19pm |
re: #345 albusteve
I'm still pissed about Scooter...he was used by Fitzgerald bigtime
It's the way these things go and operatives on that level probably mostly know that they have to take one for the team like Ollie North or G Gordon Libby.
| 352 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:50:24pm |
re: #346 b_sharp
When do they start replacing the bone with adamantium and the muscles with servos? You might as well become the world's first true cyborg.
amputation is still pretty primitive....if they could regenerate skin and muscle, it would be a huge plus...otoh devices after the fact are pretty cool these days....the other thing is pain management, where opiates is about the best thing going
| 354 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:51:53pm |
re: #339 Killgore Trout
I wasn't particularly thrilled with it but that "leak" was probably approved much higher up than Scooter Libby. The government discloses information confidentially to journalists all the time. It's the way things are done sometimes.
Just so we are clear, I have never advocated a position one way or another re wikileaks.
I don't really care who approved of it, what amuses me though is how outraged governments can be when someone other than themselves release classified information.
| 355 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:52:37pm |
re: #350 Killgore Trout
It's the way these things go and operatives on that level probably mostly know that they have to take one for the team like Ollie North or G Gordon Libby.
yeah I know, but is is a decent guy....he was tripped up and the press loved it....the Plames are sleazy media whores...top shelf
| 356 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:52:58pm |
re: #348 Sergey Romanov
OK, so leaks for political purposes are OK as long as they're approved by higher-ups. Noted.
Kind of. There are a lot of variables. If a "leak" is authorized from the oval office I'm not too bothered as long as they do it responsibly. I guess they authorize "leaks" sometimes instead of declassifying and publishing a document for PR purposes.
| 357 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:53:16pm |
re: #352 albusteve
amputation is still pretty primitive...if they could regenerate skin and muscle, it would be a huge plus...otoh devices after the fact are pretty cool these days...the other thing is pain management, where opiates is about the best thing going
Steve, I would not want to go through what you have, I wouldn't be able to handle the physical pain or the emotions. You are a better man than I am.
(That doesn't mean you're always right)
| 358 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:54:23pm |
re: #350 Killgore Trout
It's the way these things go and operatives on that level probably mostly know that they have to take one for the team like Ollie North or G Gordon Libby.
I won't argue whether they know, I wouldn't know.
But it ain't right.
| 359 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:54:36pm |
re: #335 b_sharp
Religion fills needs, that's why it is so ubiquitous. If we got rid of current religions, new ones would pop up almost immediately.
As an atheist, what I would like to see is the disappearance of religion through rational thought and education. The needs filled by religion can be filled by other things as is obvious by the existence of atheists.
That's assuming everyone has the same needs, isn't it? Maybe some people—even a lot of people—have needs that can't be met through rational thought and education?
I wish I had a link, but I don't think I do, to an article not too long ago about people who consider themselves "spiritual" (though not necessarily religious) having different activity in their brains when hooked up to whatever those machines are that show the activity as colors (can't remember what it's called at the moment).
Trying to force religion to disappear would be a huge mistake.
Most definitely.
| 360 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:54:39pm |
re: #353 albusteve
distilled
Vodka is good.
I'm going to go grab a scotch and my wife - I'll be back in a minute.
| 361 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:54:41pm |
re: #356 Killgore Trout
Legality doesn't matter?
| 362 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:54:59pm |
re: #354 ozbloke
I don't really care who approved of it, what amuses me though is how outraged governments can be when someone other than themselves release classified information.
Yes, when someone steals and publishes government documents governments get pissed. That shouldn't come as a surprise.
| 363 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:55:37pm |
| 364 |
wrenchwench Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:55:47pm |
On topic:
you know...Page promos...
I just posted a new one.
And with that, I'm outta here.
Later, lizards.
| 365 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:55:54pm |
Irony.
Pro-WikiLeaks Attacks Sputter After Counterattacks, Dissent Over Tactics
The attacks by pro-WikiLeaks supporters against companies that cut off services to the secret-spilling website have fallen into disrepair Friday, as the attackers attempt to decide the future of the so-called “Operation Payback.”
Much of the organization and communication among the group, which calls itself Anonymous, was taking place on chat rooms hosted on anonops.net. On Thursday, one room hosted more than 2,000 participants, while on Friday most of the rooms seem to have been shut down due to counterattacks.
The few protestors able to connect — less than 100 on Friday – appear to be devoting their energies to combat a counter-protester who keeps blasting the message: “WHAT YOU’RE DOING IS ILLEGAL. STOP NOW AS YOU SUCK AT IT. WIKILEAKS SUCKS AS WELL.”
| 366 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:56:00pm |
re: #357 b_sharp
Steve, I would not want to go through what you have, I wouldn't be able to handle the physical pain or the emotions. You are a better man than I am.
(That doesn't mean you're always right)
I'm not better than anyone....but in this case, I've been sort of unlucky, but that the cards I've been dealt...don't sell yourself short, you just don't know until you know
| 367 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:56:04pm |
re: #361 Sergey Romanov
How is leaking without declassifying but with an "approval" legal?
| 368 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:56:39pm |
re: #355 albusteve
yeah I know, but is is a decent guy...he was tripped up and the press loved it...the Plames are sleazy media whores...top shelf
Why because they were offended at what happened and spoke about it?
| 369 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:56:41pm |
re: #362 Killgore Trout
Yes, when someone steals and publishes government documents governments get pissed. That shouldn't come as a surprise.
Governments are jealous of a lot of powers--they really get bent out of shape when amateurs muscle in on the killing.
| 370 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:57:22pm |
re: #362 Killgore Trout
Sorry, pushed the wrong button, please see #367.
| 371 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:58:05pm |
re: #365 Gus 802
Irony.
Pro-WikiLeaks Attacks Sputter After Counterattacks, Dissent Over Tactics
lol
| 372 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:58:58pm |
re: #356 Killgore Trout
Kind of. There are a lot of variables. If a "leak" is authorized from the oval office I'm not too bothered as long as they do it responsibly. I guess they authorize "leaks" sometimes instead of declassifying and publishing a document for PR purposes.
Your outrage at wikileaks means less to me with statements like this.
They Plame leak was purely political, but its ok?
| 373 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:59:07pm |
re: #367 Sergey Romanov
How is leaking without declassifying but with an "approval" legal?
First, you get yourself a John Yoo...
| 374 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:00:51pm |
re: #356 Killgore Trout
Kind of. There are a lot of variables. If a "leak" is authorized from the oval office I'm not too bothered as long as they do it responsibly. I guess they authorize "leaks" sometimes instead of declassifying and publishing a document for PR purposes.
If it was handled "responsibly" as you seem to want to suggest, then why did the CIA send a letter to the Justice Department requesting a criminal investigation?
| 375 |
elizajane Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:00:52pm |
re: #365 Gus 802
Irony.
Pro-WikiLeaks Attacks Sputter After Counterattacks, Dissent Over Tactics
The general problem with anarchists is that they tend to be kind of, well, anarchic. You could hardly expect a bunch of them to agree, even on the nature of their cause much less on how to address it. The internet both enables them to interconnect in a suitably anarchic way and heightens their dissociation from one another.
| 376 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:00:55pm |
re: #362 Killgore Trout
Yes, when someone steals and publishes government documents governments get pissed. That shouldn't come as a surprise.
exactly true...what I find ironic is that generally, liberals have no problem with something like this but they see the govt as an answer to everything, to the point of such intrusion is normal, expected and desired...but when the govt is nicked like this, they blame the govt itself....they don't seem overly protective right now
| 377 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:01:18pm |
re: #362 Killgore Trout
Yes, when someone steals and publishes government documents governments get pissed. That shouldn't come as a surprise.
Tell me then, which is it the stealing or the leaking that gets you riled?
| 378 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:01:55pm |
re: #377 ozbloke
Tell me then, which is it the stealing or the leaking that gets you riled?
Sorry, stealing or publishing?
| 379 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:02:07pm |
re: #359 CuriousLurker
That's assuming everyone has the same needs, isn't it? Maybe some people—even a lot of people—have needs that can't be met through rational thought and education?
I wish I had a link, but I don't think I do, to an article not too long ago about people who consider themselves "spiritual" (though not necessarily religious) having different activity in their brains when hooked up to whatever those machines are that show the activity as colors (can't remember what it's called at the moment).
Most definitely.
If I remember correctly, the experiments done with electrical impulses sent to specific regions of the brain elicited pretty much the same responses in all the test subjects, which included the feeling of evil over the left shoulder, the feeling of support over the right shoulder and the overall feeling someone was watching and being protective.
The article you mentioned didn't specify whether the brain regions determined, or were developed by, said spirituality, did it?
| 380 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:02:15pm |
re: #377 ozbloke
Tell me then, which is it the stealing or the leaking that gets you riled?
Or the French surname?
/////
| 381 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:02:15pm |
re: #365 Gus 802
Irony.
Pro-WikiLeaks Attacks Sputter After Counterattacks, Dissent Over Tactics
deny them them an IP...problem solved....free enterprise you know
| 382 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:03:22pm |
re: #376 albusteve
exactly true...what I find ironic is that generally, liberals have no problem with something like this but they see the govt as an answer to everything, to the point of such intrusion is normal, expected and desired...but when the govt is nicked like this, they blame the govt itself...they don't seem overly protective right now
Whence the "liberals love government meme"? If I remember the '60s, we were somewhat ambivalent about it.
| 383 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:03:29pm |
After a week of news about parents/step-parents who abused then killed and discarded their kids, this is good news:
Va. Authorities: Brittany Mae Smith Found Safe
| 384 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:03:43pm |
re: #377 ozbloke
Tell me then, which is it the stealing or the leaking that gets you riled?
buttinski...both...the NYT should have been shut down long ago...subversive assholes
| 385 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:04:28pm |
re: #375 elizajane
The general problem with anarchists is that they tend to be kind of, well, anarchic. You could hardly expect a bunch of them to agree, even on the nature of their cause much less on how to address it. The internet both enables them to interconnect in a suitably anarchic way and heightens their dissociation from one another.
Which is why I always thought that anarchy would eat itself. As a political system it is worthless. It is a form of organized nihilism and an extreme form of libertarianism. Humans need order and without that order society disintegrates and all of those computers these anarchists are using would go dark.
| 387 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:05:16pm |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
Whence the "liberals love government meme"? If I remember the '60s, we were somewhat ambivalent about it.
Well, when sites with names like this: [Link: www.governmentisgood.com...] are hit at, say, DailyKos...
| 388 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:05:18pm |
re: #384 albusteve
buttinski...both...the NYT should have been shut down long ago...subversive assholes
Have you tried fascism, you may like it if you were in charge?
| 389 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:05:18pm |
re: #372 ozbloke
Your outrage at wikileaks means less to me with statements like this.
They Plame leak was purely political, but its ok?
I already told you I was not happy about that.
Listen, I'm tired of debating the imaginary virtues of espionage and internet vigilantes. It's well past the point of interesting or thoughtful debate. It's just not a serious discussion.
| 390 |
sizzleRI Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:05:22pm |
re: #376 albusteve
Ahhh, yes the general monolithic Liberal.
| 391 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:05:43pm |
re: #379 b_sharp
If I remember correctly, the experiments done with electrical impulses sent to specific regions of the brain elicited pretty much the same responses in all the test subjects, which included the feeling of evil over the left shoulder, the feeling of support over the right shoulder and the overall feeling someone was watching and being protective.
The article you mentioned didn't specify whether the brain regions determined, or were developed by, said spirituality, did it?
I honestly don't remember exactly what it said—my memory of it is too foggy. I'll have to use my Google-Fu this weekend to see if I can find it again.
| 392 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:06:25pm |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
Whence the "liberals love government meme"? If I remember the '60s, we were somewhat ambivalent about it.
just seems like it to me...I'm about as anti govt as they come, but ripping off secrets and publishing them is over the top....where would it end?....the slippery of slopes....and why limit stealing from the feds?....it's already happening
| 393 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:08:02pm |
re: #388 ozbloke
Have you tried fascism, you may like it if you were in charge?
don't be ridiculous...make everybody a Cowboy fan?....who would we hate?
| 394 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:08:03pm |
re: #383 reine.de.tout
After a week of news about parents/step-parents who abused then killed and discarded their kids, this is good news:
Va. Authorities: Brittany Mae Smith Found Safe
Great news!
| 395 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:08:41pm |
re: #389 Killgore Trout
I already told you I was not happy about that.
Listen, I'm tired of debating the imaginary virtues of espionage and internet vigilantes. It's well past the point of interesting or thoughtful debate. It's just not a serious discussion.
Killgore, I apologize if I have annoyed you, it was not my intention.
I just have trouble marrying your two views.
| 396 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:09:36pm |
| 397 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:09:51pm |
re: #395 ozbloke
Killgore, I apologize if I have annoyed you, it was not my intention.
I just have trouble marrying your two views.
keep trying...it will pay off in spades
| 399 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:10:28pm |
| 400 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:11:36pm |
re: #395 ozbloke
Killgore, I apologize if I have annoyed you, it was not my intention.
I just have trouble marrying your two views.
That's because you're looking at the computer monitor upside down.
//
| 401 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:11:55pm |
| 402 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:12:54pm |
re: #395 ozbloke
Me too. But I must say that legality is of less concern to me than the principle. KT wrote upthread that he didn't like the people sabotaging their own govt. I think he didn't mean it to be a general statement - of course it may be justified to sabotage some sorts of govts. The US govt is not one of them. Here's an example of "stolen" documents (some of which are probably still classified) of which I wholly approve: [Link: www.bukovsky-archives.net...]
| 403 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:13:10pm |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
Whence the "liberals love government meme"? If I remember the '60s, we were somewhat ambivalent about it.
Liberals have never loved authority, and that includes the government. The reputation we have been assigned stems from the liberal desire to use government to encourage our society to adopt equal rights and opportunities.
| 404 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:13:32pm |
re: #402 Sergey Romanov
"The US govt is not one of them." - usually. ;-)
| 405 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:13:54pm |
re: #386 Gus 802
Anarchy is like having a room mate that never pays the rent.
//
And pisses on the carpet.
| 406 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:14:05pm |
Liberals and conservatives both like government but for different reasons. There is some crossover of course much like the essentially needs of all human beings.
| 407 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:14:16pm |
Again: Why did the Bush CIA send a letter to the Bush Justice Department requesting a criminal investigation into the leaking of Plame's agency status if the leak was handled responsibly, or if the CIA Inspector General didn't genuinely believe she was a covert asset protected under the law?
What's being asserted here makes no sense whatsoever.
| 408 |
Usually refered to as anyways Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:14:29pm |
re: #397 albusteve
keep trying...it will pay off in spades
For you,
Nathan Cavaleri at age 10
An Aussie blues boy...
| 409 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:14:35pm |
re: #406 Gus 802
Liberals and conservatives both like government but for different reasons. There is some crossover of course much like the essentially needs of all human beings.
Essential not essentially. Cripes-o-mighty.
| 410 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:15:01pm |
| 411 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:15:02pm |
re: #403 b_sharp
Liberals have never loved authority, and that includes the government. The reputation we have been assigned stems from the liberal desire to use government to encourage our society to adopt equal rights and opportunities.
My kind of liberal has been on the receiving end of far to much government attention.
| 412 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:15:45pm |
re: #395 ozbloke
Killgore, I apologize if I have annoyed you, it was not my intention.
I just have trouble marrying your two views.
Try a civil union.
| 413 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:16:22pm |
re: #403 b_sharp
Liberals have never loved authority, and that includes the government. The reputation we have been assigned stems from the liberal desire to use government to encourage our society to adopt equal rights and opportunities.
yes, spread the wealth etc
| 414 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:16:46pm |
re: #403 b_sharp
Liberals have never loved authority, and that includes the government. The reputation we have been assigned stems from the liberal desire to use government to encourage our society to adopt equal rights and opportunities.
You have to change hearts, not heads.
| 415 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:18:00pm |
re: #414 Walter L. Newton
You have to change hearts, not heads.
Ultimately true, and it's the multi-millenium struggle.
| 416 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:19:21pm |
re: #408 ozbloke
For you,
Nathan Cavaleri at age 10
An Aussie blues boy...
[Video]
whoa!....another Joe B...I like it, booked
thanks
| 417 |
sizzleRI Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:20:28pm |
re: #413 albusteve
I think he meant more those pesky feds and their desegregation. Spreading the wealth of equal education opportunities since 1954.
| 418 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:22:33pm |
re: #417 sizzleRI
I think he meant more those pesky feds and their desegregation. Spreading the wealth of equal education opportunities since 1954.
Ike?
| 419 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:22:48pm |
re: #403 b_sharp
Liberals have never loved authority, and that includes the government. The reputation we have been assigned stems from the liberal desire to use government to encourage our society to adopt equal rights and opportunities.
I'm all for that.
Where I would draw the line is where government tries to impose equal outcomes, rather than equal rights and opportunities.
There's a certain amount that we are obligated to take care of, as far as helping provide for the essential needs of those who are in need. We do that through the government, and locally through charitable giving (time and/or money).
I would also add there's a measure of responsibility, not just rights and opportunities, that we should engage in. And that's what enables us to use our rights and opportunities to succeed to the point where we can live comfortably.
| 420 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:23:16pm |
re: #414 Walter L. Newton
You have to change hearts, not heads.
Changing patterns of behaviour using our heads will eventually change hearts.
| 421 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:23:37pm |
re: #417 sizzleRI
I think he meant more those pesky feds and their desegregation. Spreading the wealth of equal education opportunities since 1954.
right on...I'm no anarchist
| 422 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:24:06pm |
Why did Bush refuse to pardon Libby if the leak was authorized by the Oval Office and handled responsibly?
Because it wasn't, Cheney's team played a bad hand and Bush refused to put his stamp of approval on it, even at the end when he had nothing to lose and Cheney was screaming at him to issue the pardon. He commuted the sentence to keep Libby quiet, remove any leverage Fitzgerald had over him, but refused to pardon the man.
| 423 |
sizzleRI Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:24:29pm |
re: #418 Gus 802
9-0 Supreme Court decision, from that black cloaked cabal. Ike was helpful in enforcement.
Gus, don't play gotcha with a Republican president, I'm talking about the federal government here, and that includes Republicans.
| 424 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:24:43pm |
re: #419 reine.de.tout
I'm all for that.
Where I would draw the line is where government tries to impose equal outcomes, rather than equal rights and opportunities.
There's a certain amount that we are obligated to take care of, as far as helping provide for the essential needs of those who are in need. We do that through the government, and locally through charitable giving (time and/or money).
I would also add there's a measure of responsibility, not just rights and opportunities, that we should engage in. And that's what enables us to use our rights and opportunities to succeed to the point where we can live comfortably.
well said...you speak for me
| 425 |
Gus Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:26:03pm |
re: #423 sizzleRI
9-0 Supreme Court decision, from that black cloaked cabal. Ike was helpful in enforcement.
Gus, don't play gotcha with a Republican president, I'm talking about the federal government here, and that includes Republicans.
I'm playing gotcha? Hmm. I actually saw 1954 and thought you meant Ike. Simple as that.
| 426 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:26:27pm |
Well, I'm now I'm officially pissed at Wikileaks/Assange for making everyone grouchy. And with that, I'm off to make some dinner.
Later, Lizards.
| 427 |
albusteve Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:26:34pm |
re: #422 goddamnedfrank
Why did Bush refuse to pardon Libby if the leak was authorized by the Oval Office and handled responsibly?
Because it wasn't, Cheney's team played a bad hand and Bush refused to put his stamp of approval on it, even at the end when he had nothing to lose and Cheney was screaming at him to issue the pardon. He commuted the sentence to keep Libby quiet, remove any leverage Fitzgerald had over him, but refused to pardon the man.
I don't deny any of that...you are right...but to use Libby like a dogs rag doll pissed me off...he did not out Plame
| 428 |
sizzleRI Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:31:16pm |
re: #425 Gus 802
Shrug, I'm sorry, when I see 1954 and desegregation I go to Brown v. Board before Ike. Everyone's different.
| 429 |
compound idaho Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:31:40pm |
re: #403 b_sharp
Liberals have never loved authority, and that includes the government. The reputation we have been assigned stems from the liberal desire to use government to encourage our society to adopt equal rights and opportunities.
So why do they favor a government solution to almost every problem?
| 430 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:35:02pm |
re: #419 reine.de.tout
I'm all for that.
Where I would draw the line is where government tries to impose equal outcomes, rather than equal rights and opportunities.
I think you're misinterpreting the intent.
You can't give equal opportunity simply by opening up the legal structure when the society has an ingrained bias against a group, you have to actually put members of that group into positions they would normally have difficulty getting to until the society accepts them being there.
Having members of a group successfully pull themselves up by the bootstraps requires a positive feedback cycle where a temporary forcing is needed to get it started. That forcing is what many people see as an attempt at creating equal outcomes.
There's a certain amount that we are obligated to take care of, as far as helping provide for the essential needs of those who are in need. We do that through the government, and locally through charitable giving (time and/or money).
I would also add there's a measure of responsibility, not just rights and opportunities, that we should engage in. And that's what enables us to use our rights and opportunities to succeed to the point where we can live comfortably.
Who could argue with that?
| 431 |
goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:36:07pm |
re: #427 albusteve
I don't deny any of that...you are right...but to use Libby like a dogs rag doll pissed me off...he did not out Plame
Sure he did, he just wasn't chronologically first, his intent was to out her and he did. Fitzgerald believed that Artimage didn't intend to break the law and was being truthful with him, but that Libby did intend to break the law and was lying to him. It was a crime, she was a protected asset, evidence by the fact that the CIA requested a criminal investigation. Libby was a lying, treasonous piece of trash who obstructed the investigation and deserved far worse than he got.
"Mr. Armitage cooperated voluntarily in the case, never hired a lawyer and testified several times to the grand jury, according to people who are familiar with his role and actions in the case. He turned over his calendars, datebooks and even his wife’s computer in the course of the inquiry, those associates said. But Mr. Armitage kept his actions secret, not even telling President Bush because the prosecutor asked him not to divulge it, the people said... Mr. Armitage had prepared a resignation letter, his associates said. But he stayed on the job because State Department officials advised that his sudden departure could lead to the disclosure of his role in the leak, the people aware of his actions said.... He resigned in November 2004, but remained a subject of the inquiry until [February 2006] when the prosecutor advised him in a letter that he would not be charged."
| 432 |
dmon Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:36:17pm |
I see government and the free market just as I see the branches of government. A system of checks and balances. Either government or the free market running roughshod over the people is is a bad thing.
In one case you have country run by a dictator, in the other you have a company store.
| 433 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:41:17pm |
There was this mockumentary, C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America, which made some very poignant points. Apparently it's fully at YT. Here's a trailer:
| 434 |
prairiefire Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:44:03pm |
re: #431 goddamnedfrank
Sure he did, he just wasn't chronologically first, his intent was to out her and he did. Fitzgerald believed that Artimage didn't intend to break the law and was being truthful with him, but that Libby did intend to break the law and was lying to him. It was a crime, she was a protected asset, evidence by the fact that the CIA requested a criminal investigation. Libby was a lying, treasonous piece of trash who obstructed the investigation and deserved far worse than he got.
Thank you, gdfrank.
| 435 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:45:07pm |
Wrong thread.
| 436 |
b_sharp Fri, Dec 10, 2010 5:49:20pm |
re: #429 compound idaho
So why do they favor a government solution to almost every problem?
Because society is made up of people and people will not willingly make changes unless forced to in many cases. It's also evident that the free market is not some magical solution to many problems our society faces. I think there is a fundamental difference in how we view people. The right tends to see people as self centred, greedy and ultimately self serving and the free market as using that greed as a negative feedback to force society to benefit the majority, where the left sees people as potentially self centred, greedy and ultimately self serving but also potentially cooperative. The left assumes people can be manipulated into doing things not in their best interest including circumventing the free market feedback system so that the majority is not benefited so that regulations are needed, but they can also be convinced to operate in the best interests of society.
The right assumes that the 'natural selection' process of free markets will bring the greatest benefit, but the left assumes 'artificial selection' will take place in all cases so we have to choose which 'artificial selection' path to take.
| 438 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 6:18:57pm |
re: #429 compound idaho
So why do they favor a government solution to almost every problem?
wow crazy talking point hyperbole diarrhea is crazy talking point hyperbole diarrhea
| 439 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Dec 10, 2010 6:25:13pm |
re: #220 reine.de.tout
OK, I agree wholeheartedly that there's plenty of ugliness we need to care about. I try to do my bit locally.
But Obdi - Shell Oil is colluding to murder people? Really?
[Link: www.alternet.org...]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]
Took me five seconds on google.
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