Overnight Open Thread
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Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing by a music school?
— John Cage
164 comments
3 |
SpaceJesus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:29:57pm |
is the truck driver blasting this jam as he drives by?
| 4 |
SpaceJesus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:32:06pm |
in other news, john mccain just said some stupid shit calling democracy in the middle east a virus
[Link: www.democracynow.org…]
| 5 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:34:42pm |
re: #4 SpaceJesus
in other news, john mccain just said some stupid shit calling democracy in the middle east a virus
[Link: www.democracynow.org…]
We don’t know if he’s stupid yet.
| 6 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:37:06pm |
John Cage… a bit too modern and abstract for me.
However, one of his more accessible pieces is In A Landscape:
| 7 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:39:10pm |
re: #4 SpaceJesus
in other news, john mccain just said some stupid shit calling democracy in the middle east a virus
[Link: www.democracynow.org…]
Someone should tell him that there is really no good way to treat a virus once it starts. You can manage the worst of the symptoms, make things less painful maybe but you pretty much have to let a virus run it’s course.
You can vaccinate for some viruses of course. Not sure what vaccinating would be analogous to.
| 8 |
What, me worry? Fri, Feb 4, 2011 10:51:59pm |
re: #7 Jadespring
Someone should tell him that there is really no good way to treat a virus once it starts. You can manage the worst of the symptoms, make things less painful maybe but you pretty much have to let a virus run it’s course.
You can vaccinate for some viruses of course. Not sure what vaccinating would be analogous to.
Well you know, I’m NO fan of McCain, however, he’s referring to regimes being overthrown by terrorist factions who have no desire to deal with the U.S. and Israel. Yemen is especially scary. We’ve had a lot of bad activity there last few years.
So I’m holding judgment about McCain’s statement. Let’s hope he’s stupid.
| 10 |
RabbitRunner Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:06:42pm |
Want to hear a good one, I went to lovable Mark Levin’s legal org site, Landmark Legal Foundation.
and right on thetop of the front page was this gem:
Landmark Legal Foundation Nominates Rush Limbaugh For 2007 Nobel Peace Prize
02/01/2007
So for four years he has been bragging to the world he nominated Rush for the Nobel Peace Prize cause Rush spreads peace and democracy throughout the world via his radio show. Even Stewart or Maher couldn’t make up better stuff!
| 11 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:11:49pm |
re: #8 marjoriemoon
Well you know, I’m NO fan of McCain, however, he’s referring to regimes being overthrown by terrorist factions who have no desire to deal with the U.S. and Israel. Yemen is especially scary. We’ve had a lot of bad activity there last few years.
So I’m holding judgment about McCain’s statement. Let’s hope he’s stupid.
I don’t think he’s stupid at all. I know what he is referring too as well. The fact is though that there are reasons that these regimes are being overthrown and potentially overthrown. I think suggesting that it’s only terrorist factions doing the overthrowing is not doing anyone any favors though. It takes away from the complexity behind the ‘whys’ of it happening. It’s not just terrorists on the move it’s people generally sick of living under the type of regimes that exist right now. If it just gets blamed on ‘terrorists’ then any solving of the problem ain’t going to happen. There’s more going on then just terrorists.
And yes it is very possible and likely that the changes will mean gov’ts that are less friendly and enamored by the US. On the other hand I also have a problem with the implication that somehow it’s wrong because of that and that it’s better for people to live under oppression and despotism just because those folks happen to friendlier then a gov’t might be that comes after.
I find it very difficult to suggest that Egyptians for instance should keep living under a regime like Mubaraks because it’s in another country’s better interest.
That’s imperialism at it’s worst.
| 12 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:12:21pm |
re: #7 Jadespring
Someone should tell him that there is really no good way to treat a virus once it starts. You can manage the worst of the symptoms, make things less painful maybe but you pretty much have to let a virus run it’s course.
You can vaccinate for some viruses of course. Not sure what vaccinating would be analogous to.
Well, a vaccine is often a dead or weakened pathogen that is injected so that the immune system knows what it looks like.
Afghanistan? Iraq?
| 13 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:14:17pm |
| 14 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:15:38pm |
re: #12 prononymous
Well, a vaccine is often a dead or weakened pathogen that is injected so that the immune system knows what it looks like.
Afghanistan? Iraq?
Not sure if get what your saying. Can you explain more?
| 15 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:18:53pm |
re: #14 Jadespring
Not sure if get what your saying. Can you explain more?
You were wondering what vaccination would be analogous to. If the virus is democracy then you could vaccinate for it by inserting a weak or dead democracy into a hostile area so they know how to deal with it in the future.
Ugh, this is a fairly disgusting metaphor. Thanks McCain for taking us there.
| 16 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:23:42pm |
re: #15 prononymous
A much, much better metaphor would have been “seed”. Or perhaps “epiphany.”
“Virus” is so loaded with negative connotations.
| 17 |
Skeetghazi Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:23:44pm |
gah, it’s so latere: #11 Jadespring
I don’t think he’s stupid at all. I know what he is referring too as well. The fact is though that there are reasons that these regimes are being overthrown and potentially overthrown. I think suggesting that it’s only terrorist factions doing the overthrowing is not doing anyone any favors though. It takes away from the complexity behind the ‘whys’ of it happening. It’s not just terrorists on the move it’s people generally sick of living under the type of regimes that exist right now. If it just gets blamed on ‘terrorists’ then any solving of the problem ain’t going to happen. There’s more going on then just terrorists.
And yes it is very possible and likely that the changes will mean gov’ts that are less friendly and enamored by the US. On the other hand I also have a problem with the implication that somehow it’s wrong because of that and that it’s better for people to live under oppression and despotism just because those folks happen to friendlier then a gov’t might be that comes after.
I find it very difficult to suggest that Egyptians for instance should keep living under a regime like Mubaraks because it’s in another country’s better interest.
That’s imperialism at it’s worst.
Gah, it’s late and not many will see this, but in response to what I bolded in your statement, check out this photo essay on the variety of Egyptians who were there.
The fucks (sorry, but they are fucks) who are taking away from the ordinary Egyptian protesting by bringing up the fear of the Muslim Brotherhood etc. etc. it’s propaganda at its finest.
Look @ this slide show and read about the protesters.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
| 18 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:26:04pm |
re: #17 Stanley Sea
There’s a lot going on in parallel and I think some people here in the US are trying too hard to fit the events into preconceived perspectives on that region of the world.
We might need some new skins for the new wine.
| 19 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:26:17pm |
re: #16 freetoken
A much, much better metaphor would have been “seed”. Or perhaps “epiphany.”
“Virus” is so loaded with negative connotations.
Which is sort of ironic since viruses may be one of the few ways to deal with highly evolved drug resistant bacteria such as MRSA. Look up bacteriophages.
| 20 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:27:20pm |
re: #15 prononymous
You were wondering what vaccination would be analogous to. If the virus is democracy then you could vaccinate for it by inserting a weak or dead democracy into a hostile area so they know how to deal with it in the future.
Ugh, this is a fairly disgusting metaphor. Thanks McCain for taking us there.
:D Ha ha.
I guess I just have a problem getting my head around the idea of “pro democracy movements as a virus” being a bad thing. Kinda goes against the whole ‘rah, rah democracy and freedom’ best things in the world cheering. I also hear a lot about ” if the arabs or ‘muslims’ would just get more democratic and like us then things would be better. ” I have to wonder how people actually expect that sort of thing to happen.
| 21 |
Skeetghazi Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:27:36pm |
re: #18 freetoken
There’s a lot going on in parallel and I think some people here in the US are trying too hard to fit the events into preconceived perspectives on that region of the world.
We might need some new skins for the new wine.
Concur
| 22 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:29:23pm |
re: #4 SpaceJesus
in other news, john mccain just said some stupid shit calling democracy in the middle east a virus
[Link: www.democracynow.org…]
Time out. You might want to listen to the whole interview.
His use of the word “virus” does raise some eyebrows but if you listen to the whole interview you can hear that he supports free and open elections in Egypt and furthermore states his support for the way President Obama has been handling the situation. Yes, he does state his support for Mubarak but once again calls for him to step down and suggests that Obama do the same.
The fact remains that democracy has yet to occur and that it is indeed a dangerous time in the ME. The realities of the potential for the Muslim Brotherhood to sink Egypt to an even darker period is a reality.
| 23 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:31:01pm |
Speaking of the need for new wineskins, I’ve been reading (and occasionally posting at) BioLogos, but I’m coming to the conclusion that PZed is correct, and that Biologos has essentially jumped the shark.
They want so much to be accepted by the American evangelical/fundamentalist community (including the creationists) that they’re wading into the swamp of post-modernism (and their trip is being paid for by Templeton.)
| 24 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:31:29pm |
re: #20 Jadespring
:D Ha ha.
I guess I just have a problem getting my head around the idea of “pro democracy movements as a virus” being a bad thing. Kinda goes against the whole ‘rah, rah democracy and freedom’ best things in the world cheering. I also hear a lot about ” if the arabs or ‘muslims’ would just get more democratic and like us then things would be better. ” I have to wonder how people actually expect that sort of thing to happen.
Indeed. I have expressed similar sentiments previously.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
| 25 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:31:38pm |
re: #8 marjoriemoon
Well you know, I’m NO fan of McCain, however, he’s referring to regimes being overthrown by terrorist factions who have no desire to deal with the U.S. and Israel. Yemen is especially scary. We’ve had a lot of bad activity there last few years.
So I’m holding judgment about McCain’s statement. Let’s hope he’s stupid.
That’s a pretty close approximation as I see it.
| 26 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:32:14pm |
re: #22 Gus 802
Perhaps McCain realizes that his (American) public wouldn’t understand anything too nuanced, so he just uses the “virus” metaphor. Or perhaps McCain is just too lazy to really try to communicate the big picture.
| 27 |
Skeetghazi Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:33:24pm |
The Egyptians are waking up. Tweets a happening.
| 28 |
Skeetghazi Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:34:15pm |
mosaaberizing Mosa’ab Elshamy
Now chanting “protect us with tanks, your brothers died here” - احمونا بالدبابات، اخوك المصري هنا مات
2 minutes ago
»
mosaaberizing Mosa’ab Elshamy
We’re sitting in front of their tanks after the army tried to remove the barricades we set up near the musuem. #Tahrir
3 minutes ago
| 29 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:35:35pm |
re: #22 Gus 802
Well that makes more sense. I heard McCain before and this fits better with what he said then. I understand why he chose virus as an analogy —-something that spreads—. Just wished he hadn’t because as you see it happen here it takes away from the rest of what he said.
| 30 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:36:31pm |
re: #26 freetoken
Perhaps McCain realizes that his (American) public wouldn’t understand anything too nuanced, so he just uses the “virus” metaphor. Or perhaps McCain is just too lazy to really try to communicate the big picture.
He was speaking off the cuff and just chose a word that came to the top of his head. OK, maybe he’s lazy. Maybe he’s old. But the quote that Amy Goodman picked is cherry picked and without context. And I hope we are all familiar with Amy Goodman’s and Democracy Now’s position regarding the Middle East and Israel. In reality McCain doesn’t have to say anything at all. But, he has stated his support for Obama several times this week and I don’t want to get stuck on one word. I’m also hearing that some on the left are also rather unhappy with the way Obama is handling the situation.
| 31 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:38:46pm |
re: #30 Gus 802
He was speaking off the cuff and just chose a word that came to the top of his head. OK, maybe he’s lazy. Maybe he’s old. But the quote that Amy Goodman picked is cherry picked and without context. And I hope we are all familiar with Amy Goodman’s and Democracy Now’s position regarding the Middle East and Israel. In reality McCain doesn’t have to say anything at all. But, he has stated his support for Obama several times this week and I don’t want to get stuck on one word. I’m also hearing that some on the left are also rather unhappy with the way Obama is handling the situation.
Lots of people are unhappy for different reasons. Some happen to be left, some independent and some right.
| 32 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:39:14pm |
re: #30 Gus 802
That makes me feel better. Bad choice of words though. My virus analogy would be more like:
If secular democracy is a virus, I hope everyone catches it.
| 33 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:45:45pm |
re: #32 prononymous
That makes me feel better. Bad choice of words though. My virus analogy would be more like:
If secular democracy is a virus, I hope everyone catches it.
I certainly hope so too. But we’ll have to wait and see how all of this evolves. Expecting Egypt to go from a secular dictatorship to an open democracy overnight is quite a long shot given the history of the Middle East. Many of the problems that Egyptians face are also due to well entrenched power brokers like most of the Western world. We’ll have to wait and see how this evolves and a happy ending is not written in stone.
| 35 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:50:21pm |
re: #33 Gus 802
I certainly hope so too. But we’ll have to wait and see how all of this evolves. Expecting Egypt to go from a secular dictatorship to an open democracy overnight is quite a long shot given the history of the Middle East. Many of the problems that Egyptians face are also due to well entrenched power brokers like most of the Western world. We’ll have to wait and see how this evolves and a happy ending is not written in stone.
I fully expect it to be rough. It will not be smooth at all. The “powers that be” never just give up and go away without a fight or conflict. No democracy has ever just popped up out of nothing and without strife. Western type democracies took hundreds of years to develop to where they are now.
| 36 |
freetoken Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:50:53pm |
re: #30 Gus 802
I’m also hearing that some on the left are also rather unhappy with the way Obama is handling the situation.
I wonder if that isn’t some misplaced unhappiness with Obama and many of his decisions especially wrt his triangulation with GOP positions.
As for McCain… you wrote that maybe because he is “old”; this might sound a bit cruel, but I think there is something to that.
| 37 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:52:16pm |
Anyways the protesters are currently according to tweets having a stand off or sit off with some army tanks.
The army is apparently trying to remove the barricades.
| 38 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:52:47pm |
re: #33 Gus 802
I wholeheartedly agree. There are so many variables and unknowns it would be ridiculous to say anyone can know for certain what the outcome will be. I just see the potential for a functioning democracy after some serious growing pains. I am hoping for that outcome, trying to stay optimistic about it, and welcome any ideas or actions to help it come about.
| 39 |
Gus Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:53:57pm |
re: #36 freetoken
I wonder if that isn’t some misplaced unhappiness with Obama and many of his decisions especially wrt his triangulation with GOP positions.
As for McCain… you wrote that maybe because he is “old”; this might sound a bit cruel, but I think there is something to that.
I’m assuming it’s because Obama hasn’t flat out said, “Mubarak step down now!” He’s taking a centrist approach. Of course the opposite it true with the right who thinks he’s said too much already — plus a zillion conspiracy theories that go along with it.
| 40 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:54:21pm |
And as much as things went okay in the square yesterday there’s apparently a number of activists who have gone missing. Some people they know have been arrested, the others are assumed to be.
| 41 |
Jadespring Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:57:45pm |
Oh and there has been a “terrorist” attack on a pipe line in north Sinai. Someone blew it up.
| 42 |
Skeetghazi Fri, Feb 4, 2011 11:59:13pm |
carmelva Carmel Vaisman
by Sandmonkey
getting uglly RT @flipcritic: Breaking News: Egypt-Israeli Gas Pipeline has been blown up in North Sinai. [Link: j.mp…] #jan25
| 43 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:00:20am |
re: #41 Jadespring
Oh and there has been a “terrorist” attack on a pipe line in north Sinai. Someone blew it up.
0728: AFP news agency is now also saying there has been an attack on gas supplies to Israel. Reporting from Cairo, it quotes an official and says: “Unknown attackers blew up an Egyptian terminal supplying gas to Israel near the Gaza Strip on Saturday.” If it’s confirmed as an attack it would be the first of its kind since the crisis began nearly a fortnight ago.
0739: Egyptian state TV says the gas pipeline is on fire in the northern Sinai Peninsula. “The blast and the fire erupted Saturday morning near the Egyptian town of El Arish. Residents say they heard the sound of an explosion, and that massive flames shot into the air,” the Associated Press reports.
| 44 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:01:09am |
re: #41 Jadespring
I “” terrorist because this being reported by Egyptian state tv. I wouldn’t trust their version or speculation of events as far as I could throw my shoe.
| 45 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:03:47am |
With all the unrest in that region of the world right now a new government coming to power Egypt could spark similar revolts in other countries. Unfortunately, there is a distinct possibility that some of them would be Islamist.
But I feel that the advantages of a secular democracy in Egypt at peace with Israel would outweigh the negatives of the aforementioned possibilities. Let’s hope and push for such an outcome.
| 46 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:03:49am |
I don’t know why I’m defending McCain. I felt like bopping him on the head during the DADT hearings. Now suddenly he’s back in Mr. Nice Guy mode and giving props to Obama left and right. Humans can be so cornfusing.
| 47 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:06:50am |
This is pretty cool.
An activist from the Students Federation of India (SFI) holds up a book during a protest against Egypt’s President Hosni Mubarak outside the Egyptian embassy in New Delhi February 1, 2011. Mubarak’s grip on Egypt looked increasingly tenuous on Tuesday after the army pledged not to confront protesters who converged in Cairo in their tens of thousands to demand an end to his 30-year rule.
The book is “Rights of Man” by Thomas Paine.
| 48 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:08:42am |
re: #46 Gus 802
I don’t know why I’m defending McCain. I felt like bopping him on the head during the DADT hearings. Now suddenly he’s back in Mr. Nice Guy mode and giving props to Obama left and right. Humans can be so cornfusing.
I like Mr Nice Guy McCain better. I didn’t always agree with him policy wise but he was someone who although quite different politically I generally respected. Then he just seemed to lose his mind and go off on some weird adventure. I hope this means he’s decided it’s time to come back from it.
| 49 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:08:58am |
re: #46 Gus 802
I don’t know why I’m defending McCain. I felt like bopping him on the head during the DADT hearings. Now suddenly he’s back in Mr. Nice Guy mode and giving props to Obama left and right. Humans can be so cornfusing.
Humans. Pffft, what do they know anyway?
Err…
*runs and hides*
*puts human skin back on*
| 50 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:11:56am |
This gas line thing is really going to screw things up. Not that they aren’t already screwy.
Also reports coming in that ‘tweeps’ are being hunted by security. I already know a couple that got nabbed. One managed to leave the country somehow. (still waiting for the story) but the others he was with are still detained.
| 51 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:14:51am |
I wish we could hear more from the secular college students that started these demonstrations. It’s unfortunate that they youth don’t get much say in many countries. And by youth that could include people into their 40s when you compare it to the age of leaders like Mubarak.
| 52 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:16:28am |
At the start there was one student that mentioned Muslims, Christians, and atheists standing together. I was almost floored to hear that. Someone in Egypt including atheists in a positive light.
| 53 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:21:22am |
#
0816: Israel’s gas pipeline may not have been hit by the blast - that’s coming from Israel radio, quoted by Reuters. The news agency is reporting that the Jordanian branch of the pipe has been damaged. In any event it looks like Egypt’s gas supply to Israel has been stopped as a precaution.
| 54 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:22:02am |
re: #51 Gus 802
I wish we could hear more from the secular college students that started these demonstrations. It’s unfortunate that they youth don’t get much say in many countries. And by youth that could include people into their 40s when you compare it to the age of leaders like Mubarak.
I’ve been hearing a lot from them. Been following a lot of the tweets and blogs. The orginizing facebook pages as well although that hard because it has to be translated.
May not here much from them as time goes on. They’re the folks that are being targeted as we speak. Four of the Facebook organizers were arrested the other day.
| 56 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:23:06am |
re: #52 Gus 802
At the start there was one student that mentioned Muslims, Christians, and atheists standing together. I was almost floored to hear that. Someone in Egypt including atheists in a positive light.
Wow. Is there a link for that?
I can see people of the book being ok, but atheists are ok too? I’m going to faint.
| 57 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:23:46am |
re: #55 Gus 802
The 24 hour rule died with Twitter.
//
Well blame Egyptian state media for this one. They reported it that way.
| 58 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:24:40am |
re: #56 prononymous
Wow. Is there a link for that?
I can see people of the book being ok, but atheists are ok too? I’m going to faint.
I should have bookmarked it. I’d have to search but I doubt I’d be able to find it now.
| 59 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:27:16am |
re: #58 Gus 802
No big deal, I trust your word on it. I’m just happy to hear it.
| 60 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:28:29am |
re: #56 prononymous
Wow. Is there a link for that?
I can see people of the book being ok, but atheists are ok too? I’m going to faint.
I guess it just doesn’t surprise me that much. I went to Uni with quite a few students from various places in the Middle East here on visas. Most were pretty secular and not very religious at all. Two guys from Iran said they were atheists. I asked them about it and they said with many young people religion is more like a cultural thing rather then a die hard religious thing.
| 61 |
SpaceJesus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:29:01am |
re: #22 Gus 802
yeah, so he pretty much flip flops all over the place and winds up showing how senile and out of touch he is with issues.
| 62 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:32:11am |
re: #60 Jadespring
Good to know. So perhaps the portion of atheists/agnostics in the middle east is higher then reported because they have to keep it under wraps?
| 63 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:32:39am |
re: #60 Jadespring
Oh and one comment one of the Iranians made. Not the exact words “There’s nothing like growing up in an oppressive theocracy to turn one off of religion.”
| 64 |
freetoken Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:33:30am |
re: #45 prononymous
With all the unrest in that region of the world right now a new government coming to power Egypt could spark similar revolts in other countries. Unfortunately, there is a distinct possibility that some of them would be Islamist.
The big one is of course the House of Saud, whose overthrow many people think will happen some day in the future. The KSA has imported so many workers, who are now propagating like rabbits, that only spending some of mammoth oil revenues on social work projects is keeping everybody busy.
The day is coming when the internal growth of the KSA population and subsequent economic activities serious constrain the oil exports, as more is consumed within the country. Export revenues will go down, and so will the social programs.
How long? 20 years maybe. For now the House of Saud is still very much in control.
| 66 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:37:00am |
re: #62 prononymous
Good to know. So perhaps the portion of atheists/agnostics in the middle east is higher then reported because they have to keep it under wraps?
I would think that could very well be true. I mean look at the US. While it’s okay to say your atheist or agnostic people sure get grief for it. And there’s certain jobs, like say in politics where being an atheist is a detriment. It was a big deal when Obama even mentions atheist in his inagural speech.
| 68 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:40:10am |
re: #64 freetoken
Yes, this is very much a concern. I feel we should be doing something about it. Starting soon and progressing very gradually so people can acclimate to the new reality.
If our adventures in Afghanistan, with Shah Pahlavi, with Saddam, etc didn’t teach us anything, Mubarak is a prime opportunity to learn from. Supporting dictators doesn’t often work out in the long run.
| 69 |
Jadespring Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:40:15am |
Time for me to sleep. It’s way to late. Night all.
| 71 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:40:37am |
| 72 |
Kragar Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:43:09am |
‘Terror attack on Egypt-Israel gas pipeline in El-Arish’
Egyptian state television reports masked men set off detonation at pipeline in northern Sinai causing massive flames; gas supply to Israel cut off following explosion; Jerusalem monitoring situation.
| 73 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:49:02am |
re: #72 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
I’m reading the Egypt-Jordan branch. Israel just shut the line off as a precaution.
| 74 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:55:30am |
So my dad just found a rather sizable bag of old coins (or rather, bag containing smaller bags of old coins, and among them is a 1877 Trade Dollar as well as a 1920 coin commemorating the opening of the mint in “Manila P.I.”
I’ve got the urge to have them “graded” but I’m not hearing very good things about a few of these coin grading services.
| 75 |
Gus Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:58:08am |
Al Jaz is showing the remaining flames.
[Link: english.aljazeera.net…]
Being tape from Gaza. Note that Egyptian Bedouins have done this before but no word as to who did this yet. The line they blew up is not the one going to Israel.
| 76 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Feb 5, 2011 1:09:55am |
re: #60 Jadespring
. I asked them about it and they said with many young people religion is more like a cultural thing rather then a die hard religious thing.
The fundamentalist Mullahs would tell you that these are not “real Muslims”, and when you mention it to aright-wing anti-Islam wingnut, they say much the same thing.
Amazing how diseased minds think alike.
| 77 |
freetoken Sat, Feb 5, 2011 1:17:58am |
re: #74 laZardo
So my dad just found a rather sizable bag of old coins (or rather, bag containing smaller bags of old coins, and among them is a 1877 Trade Dollar as well as a 1920 coin commemorating the opening of the mint in “Manila P.I.”
If it’s in extra fine condition you might get several hundred dollars for it:
[Link: shop.ebay.com…]
Look on the bright side - old coins will likely be more valuable as time goes by.
OTOH, I have a stamp collection from my youth that is for practical purposes worthless. Except for the true rarities, the diminishment of philately has left very little market for stamps, even uncommon ones.
| 78 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 1:21:23am |
re: #77 freetoken
I’ve been told that there might be counterfeits. My dad’s kept it for a long time so I’m not sure. The Trade Dollar’s a keeper though.
| 79 |
freetoken Sat, Feb 5, 2011 1:34:47am |
re: #78 laZardo
Well, the Trade Dollar is a silver dollar (90% Ag, 10%Cu I believe) so even a counterfeit 1oz coin is worth almost $18 !!
Actually, a known counterfeit with a well documented provenance might be worth more than a well worn original.
| 81 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Feb 5, 2011 1:38:55am |
re: #79 freetoken
A shiny lie is worth more than a worn-out truth? There is a lesson to be learned from this somehow…
| 82 |
freetoken Sat, Feb 5, 2011 1:42:40am |
Speaking of stamps, right now on eBay there is a collection of US stamps that you can “buy it now”… for only $499,999…
[Link: cgi.ebay.com…]
| 83 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 2:12:05am |
re: #82 freetoken
I had an LGF page a few months ago of an actual Tupolev Tu-95 bomber on sale on eBay.
| 84 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Feb 5, 2011 2:35:40am |
She’s as sweet as a Tupolev, honey…
| 85 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:17:04am |
Sifting through collection and I think I’ve stumbled on some Hu Poo.
Whatever the heck that is.
| 86 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:18:16am |
Seems like somebody is waking up to the reality of what a f’n Nazi group they have joined.
Ryannon February 5, 2011 at 5:34 am %P% #142
Reply %P% QuoteDaedalus :
Hey Gordon you little Barbarian.
Enjoy this video of my Serbs Cousins beating up your beloved Arabs.
httpv
Hey little wasp, come out and play!Hey, do any of you guys have any good torture videos? Cats, dogs, the handicapped or mentally deficient? Hell, even a snuff movie will do! All races and religions accepted, as long as the vids are truly vomit-producing!
Not that they weren’t warned.
| 88 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:29:38am |
re: #87 laZardo
It’s just words.
| 89 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:33:20am |
re: #88 Sergey Romanov
Good thing the video isn’t working then.
Anyhoo, back to my numismatic trove…
“Patria y Libertad” - Cuban 1 Centavo, 1916
Straits Settlements - 1 Cent, 1897
“Munt van Curacao” - Netherlands Antilles wartime currency, 1942
Shilling-era pennies from New Zealand
[more if/when I can update]
| 90 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:36:59am |
| 91 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:42:45am |
re: #90 Sergey Romanov
Dad’s been pre-spring cleaning. I used to be a bit of a numismatist back in the 1990s when I was a wee lad and he brought out this big bag of coins from all over the world and different periods. Also found…
Meiji-era yen
19th century & Franco-ist Spanish coinage
Brazilian Reis (old series pre-1942) and Cruzeiros
1d from South Africa (King George on heads), 1942
That’s just one bag, mind.
| 92 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:50:43am |
I inherited the family coin collection, mosly US silver dollars from 1900-1922, but some odd old ones like a 1938 Yugoslavian 10-dinar coin and a 1907 Austrian 5-krona coin.
And my speciall collection includes my lucky “pyatnashka”, a Soviet 15-kopeck coin. If you lived in Russia in the early 90’s, these things were trafficking for 10 Rubles each.
| 93 |
freetoken Sat, Feb 5, 2011 3:54:33am |
re: #91 laZardo
Condition will probably be the determining factor on whether those are very collectible.
As for Japanese coins… as gold and silver were very rare in Japan (not having any significant ore deposits of their own), early precious metal Japanese coins are very rare.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
[Link: coins.shop.ebay.com…]
| 94 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:17:05am |
re: #93 freetoken
Unfortunately, I didn’t get the big gold ones. :( That was before the Meiji Era’s introduction of a ‘formal’ system.
| 95 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:21:35am |
Going through another bag, unfortunately this one’s only 1960s HK$ and Hirohito-era yen…
[because only the Japanese and otakus call it the Showa-era. q: ]
| 97 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:35:41am |
re: #86 Sergey Romanov
Oops, not really. Nazi is as Nazi does.
Ryannon February 5, 2011 at 7:31 am %P% #145
Reply %P% QuoteAdmin. or mods: would you be kind enough to delete my post 143? Even for me, it’s too fucking stupid.
Ryannon February 5, 2011 at 7:24 am %P% #149
Reply %P% QuoteDaedalus :
to anyone who has problem with me.
Fuck you!
httpv[Link: www.youtube……]No problem wit you, Dawg, you da shizzle! You and me gonna cap some asses fo’ sure! Down wit ya’, homie!
Lick, lick. Slurp.
| 99 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:42:44am |
re: #98 researchok
Wasn’t supposed to, this is not the place for this kind of thing. But it’s instructive to see what kind of evil the stalkers are willing to accommodate.
| 100 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:44:32am |
Heh. Ben Franklin ‘63 Half Dollar, next to a ‘64 Kennedy Half Dollar. Long with a 1942 dime with the fasces on the back (though to be fair, it was designed in 1915…)
But here’s an oddity… a 20-cent token from “Pauline’s Club” from Angeles and Olongapo i.e. those American sailor towns. :D
| 101 |
researchok Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:44:43am |
re: #99 Sergey Romanov
Wasn’t supposed to, this is not the place for this kind of thing. But it’s instructive to see what kind of evil the stalkers are willing to accommodate.
Understood.
| 102 |
simoom Sat, Feb 5, 2011 4:56:37am |
Saw this linked at reddit:
[Link: www.reddit.com…]
The Muslim Brotherhood’s official English website, IkhwanWeb, has this little gem for Iranian dictator Ali Khamenei:MB responds to Iran’s Islamic Leader Mr Khamenai: The MB regards the revolution as the Egyptian People’s Revolution not an Islamic Revolution asserting that the Egyptian People’s Revolution includes Muslims, Christians, from all sects and political…
Bolding is mine.
| 103 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 5:03:28am |
re: #102 simoom
Flying [insert halal animal here] moment?
/it’s an obvious brownie-point moment IMO…
| 104 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Feb 5, 2011 5:42:43am |
Inability to distinguish noise from music explains a lot of modern compositions. ‘Morning, all.
| 105 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:12:46am |
re: #104 Decatur Deb
Inability to distinguish noise from music explains a lot of modern compositions. ‘Morning, all.
| 107 |
albusteve Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:45:30am |
re: #86 Sergey Romanov
Seems like somebody is waking up to the reality of what a f’n Nazi group they have joined.
Not that they weren’t warned.
that person used to post here, and I believe was blocked
| 108 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:46:21am |
re: #104 Decatur Deb
Inability to distinguish noise from music explains a lot of modern compositions. ‘Morning, all.
but everybody loves Cake:
They’re coming to town in May, my tickets are in the mail.
| 110 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 6:51:21am |
re: #107 albusteve
Yes, Steve, we were all here to see this. I think it’s a good illustration of that place. And I know what you think of talking about this and of posting excerpts from there, so no need to start.
| 111 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:03:14am |
re: #52 Gus 802
“There are no atheists in Egypt.” - Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
| 112 |
wiffersnapper Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:08:52am |
John Cage is one to talk about music. Every time I put on one of his compositions, my ears start bleeding.
| 114 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:11:04am |
re: #111 laZardo
“There are no atheists in Egypt.” - Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
Turning themselves into Iran is, IMO, the worst case scenario for Egypt but it’s possible.
| 115 |
researchok Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:11:48am |
re: #113 researchok
Must be the weather and pre game rituals
| 116 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:13:00am |
re: #115 researchok
Oh, Super Bowl Sunday is this Sunday.
/we don’t play hand-egg ‘round my side of the ocean
| 117 |
researchok Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:13:38am |
re: #114 RogueOne
Turning themselves into Iran is, IMO, the worst case scenario for Egypt but it’s possible.
Not likely though.
The real issue is these nations have only known strong arm leaders.
Unlike Eastern Europe, that’s what they want.
| 118 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:14:42am |
re: #115 researchok
Must be the weather and pre game rituals
More snow arrived here this morning. They’re calling for a chance of 6” more by monday. I’m over this shit. I had to use a pickaxe to partially clear the ice off my drive and sidewalk. There are spots were it’s solid ice a foot deep.
| 119 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:18:25am |
re: #117 researchok
I think it’s very likely to get worse for just about everybody involved. I’m having a hard time thinking of a revolution like this where they got it right on the first try.
| 120 |
researchok Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:18:42am |
re: #118 RogueOne
More snow arrived here this morning. They’re calling for a chance of 6” more by monday. I’m over this shit. I had to use a pickaxe to partially clear the ice off my drive and sidewalk. There are spots were it’s solid ice a foot deep.
Frosty here too.
Only going to hit 50.
//
| 121 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:19:02am |
| 122 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:19:22am |
re: #120 researchok
50’ weather is my plan for clearing off the rest of the ice.
| 124 |
laZardo Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:24:59am |
re: #121 Killgore Trout
Heh.
On the other hand, I’m not holding my breath to see if our local (proper) football team is really on the rise.
| 125 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:27:08am |
WikiLeaks cables: Zardari is a numbskull, British told Americans
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
Sir Jock Stirrup, then Chief of the Defence Staff, told American diplomats that Pakistan was already in an “arguably worse” state a month after Mr Zardari’s election. He added that although the new president had “made helpful political noises, he’s clearly a numbskull”.
clearly
| 126 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:33:43am |
Saw this coming:
Syria escapes ‘Day of Rage’ protests
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
DAMASCUS, Syria – Syria’s president recently boasted that his country, one of the Arab world’s most stifling regimes, is immune to the upheaval roiling other Arab countries. He was proven right — at least for the time being.A weeklong online campaign failed to galvanize the kinds of mass protests that have rocked Tunisia and Egypt in recent weeks. In fact, no one showed up Friday and Saturday for what were to be “days of rage” against the Syrian president’s iron-fisted rule.
| 127 |
darthstar Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:41:56am |
Mornin’ everyone. While some of you may be enjoying the pristine whiteness of a light layer of snow, we have to put up with people like this.
| 128 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:43:29am |
I’ve heard of being too drunk to fuck but never too stupid to do it:
Court bans man with low IQ from having sex
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
The 41 year-old had been in a relationship with a man whom he lived with and told officials “it would make me feel happy” for it to continue.But his local council decided his “vigorous sex drive” was inappropriate and that with an IQ of 48 and a “moderate” learning disability, he did not understand what he was doing.
I’m afraid to ask what they meant by that.
| 129 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:45:48am |
Egypt Halts Gas Pipeline Feeding Israel, Jordan
Egypt halted natural-gas exports through a pipeline feeding Israel and Jordan today after a fire at the facility, Egypt’s Oil Ministry said.
The state-run Middle East News Agency said the stoppage was to limit damage caused by an explosion carried out by “subversive elements,” while the Oil Ministry said a gas leak led to a fire. Official Egyptian television reported that the incident in El Arish in the northern Sinai desert was an act of “terror” carried out by “foreign hands.”
| 130 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:47:17am |
re: #30 Gus 802
He was speaking off the cuff and just chose a word that came to the top of his head. OK, maybe he’s lazy. Maybe he’s old. But the quote that Amy Goodman picked is cherry picked and without context. And I hope we are all familiar with Amy Goodman’s and Democracy Now’s position regarding the Middle East and Israel. In reality McCain doesn’t have to say anything at all. But, he has stated his support for Obama several times this week and I don’t want to get stuck on one word. I’m also hearing that some on the left are also rather unhappy with the way Obama is handling the situation.
Of course they’re unhappy. They think that Obama’s community organizer roots make him a natural ally of the protesters. This is true, but Obama is the President and as such he has to manage US relations with nations in the region. If he were to cheer the protesters on, then any regime that survived the protests would hate us for trying to overthrow it. And we need some of those regime’s support for anti-terrorist operations. So Obama is walking a tightrope on this. John McCain does seem to understand that, but the wingnuts and moonbats remain as mono-maniacal as ever.
| 131 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:48:37am |
| 132 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:50:39am |
Iraqi prime minister won’t run for third term
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
BAGHDAD – Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki will not run for a third term in 2014, an adviser said Saturday, limiting himself in the name of democracy and with an eye on the popular anger directed at governments across the Middle East.
….
Saturday’s stunning announcement follows al-Maliki’s decision a day earlier to return half of his annual salary to the government — a move he said aimed to narrow the wide gap between rich and poor Iraqis.Al-Maliki is not required to publicly report his pay, but he is believed to earn at least $360,000 annually.
The salary cut appeared calculated to insulate al-Maliki from the anti-government unrest spreading across the Middle East, as clerics and protesters warned him not to ignore public bitterness over Iraq’s sagging economy and electricity shortages. The U.S. government estimates that as many as 30 percent of Iraqis are unemployed.
I’m sure it’s all pure coincidence.
| 133 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:55:03am |
re: #132 RogueOne
Iraqi prime minister won’t run for third term
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]I’m sure it’s all pure coincidence.
Well, he’s genuinely elected, so he’s got less of a problem than some leaders. But a smart pol pays mind to public grievances, and a smart PM remembers that a ‘no-confidence’ vote can dissolve his government.
| 134 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:56:06am |
re: #131 Dark_Falcon
Somehow Israel will get the blame as usual. :(
| 135 |
darthstar Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:56:10am |
| 136 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:57:51am |
re: #135 darthstar
I think I get it. Israel “asked” Al Qaeda to do it.
| 137 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 7:59:56am |
re: #136 PhillyPretzel
I think I get it. Israel “asked” Al Qaeda to do it.
Sdaly, that’s how such things work in the minds of many Egyptians. Many of them see Al Qaeda as a ‘false flag’ used by “ZIONIST CONSPIRATORS!!1” to manipulate the United States into attacking Muslims.
| 138 |
RogueOne Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:00:43am |
re: #133 Dark_Falcon
Well, he’s genuinely elected, so he’s got less of a problem than some leaders. But a smart pol pays mind to public grievances, and a smart PM remembers that a ‘no-confidence’ vote can dissolve his government.
If your willing to stretch out the term “genuinely” I’ll agree. The Iraqi political scene is still barely contained chaos. Political demonstrations usually end with an IED.
| 140 |
lawhawk Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:02:45am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.
Here’s video of the aftermath of the attack on a gas terminal in the Sinai, which forced a shutdown of a pipeline that runs from the Sinai to Israel to Jordan.
Jordan will actually be the most adversely affected, since the Jordanians are reliant on the pipeline for 80% of their power generation needs.
| 141 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:06:01am |
re: #140 lawhawk
Yes. The Jordanians get most of their gas from that pipeline. Of course Israel is starting to explore the Mediterranean Sea for gas. There are some very large supplies out there.
| 142 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:06:19am |
Drudge’s best buddy alex jones has this big scoop today….
Ron Paul Enters Evidence of Bush War Crimes in Congressional Record
| 143 |
blueraven Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:06:59am |
re: #130 Dark_Falcon
Of course they’re unhappy. They think that Obama’s community organizer roots make him a natural ally of the protesters. This is true, but Obama is the President and as such he has to manage US relations with nations in the region. If he were to cheer the protesters on, then any regime that survived the protests would hate us for trying to overthrow it. And we need some of those regime’s support for anti-terrorist operations. So Obama is walking a tightrope on this. John McCain does seem to understand that, but the wingnuts and moonbats remain as mono-maniacal as ever.
Maybe the word virus was not the best word to use, but if you think about an internet sensation going “viral”; that is not a bad thing (necessarily).
I dont get why some people have to lock in on one word instead of the entire sentiment.
| 144 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:07:57am |
re: #140 lawhawk
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.
Here’s video of the aftermath of the attack on a gas terminal in the Sinai, which forced a shutdown of a pipeline that runs from the Sinai to Israel to Jordan.
[Video]Jordan will actually be the most adversely affected, since the Jordanians are reliant on the pipeline for 80% of their power generation needs.
Jordan may have been the ultimate target of this. If the shutdown last for more than couple of days, people in Jordan will see their lights go out and stay out. After which they’ll blame their own government (or Israel), since blaming the real perpetrators would leave them no outlet for their anger.
| 145 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:08:50am |
re: #142 Killgore Trout
Drudge’s best buddy alex jones has this big scoop today…
Ron Paul Enters Evidence of Bush War Crimes in Congressional Record
Harry Reid Seen Whistling in Senate Cloakroom
| 146 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:10:42am |
re: #142 Killgore Trout
Drudge’s best buddy alex jones has this big scoop today…
Ron Paul Enters Evidence of Bush War Crimes in Congressional Record
The most glaring indicator of opportunism here is that Drudge only began linking Jones under Obama. He knows it would have been “bad” before that, even if he agreed with Jones back then.
| 147 |
darthstar Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:11:10am |
re: #137 Dark_Falcon
Sdaly, that’s how such things work in the minds of many Egyptians. Many of them see Al Qaeda as a ‘false flag’ used by “ZIONIST CONSPIRATORS!!1” to manipulate the United States into attacking Muslims.
That assumes that Americans are gullible enough to be easily swayed by fearful rhetoric from a few politicians and media personalities…that could never happen.
Seriously, I don’t think Al Qaeda is a false flag and is still a bit of a threat on a small scale, but they have managed, with only 19 attackers and one possibly dead figurehead who needs dialysis and lives in a cave, to make significant changes to our country and government - DHS, Patriot Act, etc…sorry, got distracted by a clip of Palin using David/Goliath imagery to talk about teabaggers in relation to the US Government - she’s calling for them to take off the head of our government…aw fuck, she just took all the snark out of my first paragraph above…never mind.
| 148 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:17:07am |
re: #143 blueraven
Maybe the word virus was not the best word to use, but if you think about an internet sensation going “viral”; that is not a bad thing (necessarily).
I dont get why some people have to lock in on one word instead of the entire sentiment.
Because Amy Goodman and Democracy Now do not like John McCain politically. So they zero in on a word they can use to manufacture a talking point out of. It’s standard political sliming.
| 149 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:18:40am |
re: #146 Sergey Romanov
The most glaring indicator of opportunism here is that Drudge only began linking Jones under Obama. He knows it would have been “bad” before that, even if he agreed with Jones back then.
It’s a widespread problem on the right. Their objection to 9-11 truthers seemed so strong in the Bush years but now Fox News has them hosting shows and nobody complains.
| 150 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:22:56am |
Kos Kid trolls Rush
Rush Limbaugh Cannot Defend Ronald Reagan
| 151 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:30:23am |
re: #150 Killgore Trout
Kos Kid trolls Rush
Rush Limbaugh Cannot Defend Ronald Reagan[Video]
BRILLIANT.
Stark is a bit of an ass tho, from his other work.
| 152 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:31:07am |
“Reagan defeated Soviet communism without firing a shot”
LOLOL.
| 154 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:37:15am |
re: #152 Sergey Romanov
“Reagan defeated Soviet communism without firing a shot”
LOLOL.
The USA didn’t fire on the USSR, but we did fire on their surrogates in Grenada, and our surrogates fired on the Soviets and their surrogates in Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Honduras, Namibia, etc. Many shots were fired, but actual fighting between the superpowers was avoided.
| 155 |
blueraven Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:37:25am |
| 156 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:37:47am |
re: #151 Sergey Romanov
BRILLIANT.
Stark is a bit of an ass tho, from his other work.
I agree. Stark is a total douche but he really stumped Rush.
| 158 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:39:27am |
re: #154 Dark_Falcon
The notion that just because Reagan fought against USSR he is the one responsible for its crash is ridiculous. Causes of USSR’s fail are multiple, and US’ policy is one of them, but that’s that. It’s just a way for conservatives to pat themselves on the back.
| 159 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:40:23am |
re: #156 Killgore Trout
I agree. Stark is a total douche but he really stumped Rush.
Yeah. He was a “Worser person” on Olbermann’s program. Jes’ sayin’. ;)
| 160 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:52:29am |
re: #158 Sergey Romanov
The notion that just because Reagan fought against USSR he is the one responsible for its crash is ridiculous. Causes of USSR’s fail are multiple, and US’ policy is one of them, but that’s that. It’s just a way for conservatives to pat themselves on the back.
He wasn’t that only one, but he played a larger role than almost any other person. But Reagan himself always gave large shares of the credit to both Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II. But some people have trouble remembering and crediting foreigners. It’s not a problem for National Review’s writers or David Frum, but mostly this is because they actually know the real history of Reagan’s presidency, not just what they saw on TV.
| 161 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 8:58:21am |
re: #160 Dark_Falcon
The primary credit goes to Gorbachev, most of all. He was against the collapse but he also began dismantling the totalitarian state. The key point is not the inevitable collapse but perestroika. If there was a hardliner in power, it’s not quite certain what would have happened, Reagan-Thatcher or not.
| 162 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Feb 5, 2011 9:02:14am |
re: #161 Sergey Romanov
(That is, if one needs to assign this to a person. The main reasons were deeper than any individual.)
| 163 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Feb 5, 2011 9:05:30am |
re: #161 Sergey Romanov
The primary credit goes to Gorbachev, most of all. He was against the collapse but he also began dismantling the totalitarian state. The key point is not the inevitable collapse but perestroika. If there was a hardliner in power, it’s not quite certain what would have happened, Reagan-Thatcher or not.
I don’t think anyone was central enough to get “primary credit”. Still, its not sure that Gorbachev would even have been placed at the top had Reagan’s challenge not made things tougher for Soviet leaders. But those sorts of complex interaction questions are very hard, if not impossible to answer.
| 164 |
lawhawk Sat, Feb 5, 2011 12:24:23pm |
re: #141 PhillyPretzel
Israel is busy trying to exploit the Leviathan oil/gas deposit in the Med. Lebanon is claiming that some of that field actually falls within Lebanese waters, but Israel and Nobel Energy, which is running the exploration wells says otherwise. Lebanon has tried to get the UN involved to demarcate the border of the find, which could be a huge moneymaker for Israel - or Lebanon if it falls on both sides of their territorial water border.
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They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 498 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1- Pictures From Today’s Exhibition of Paintings Done by Jane LilienthalPROPS TO MICHELE AND SAGEHEN FOR CATCHING THE SPELLING ERROR IN THE TITLE THAT MY DIABETIC EYES COULDN'T CATCH I wanted to share pictures of the art show I visited today. The portraits were created by the mother of my ...Joe Bacon ✅
4 weeks ago
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Best of April 2024 Nothing new here but these are a look back at the a few good images from the past month. Despite the weather, I was quite pleased with several of them. These were taken with older lenses (made from the ...
William Lewis
7 hours ago
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Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
3 weeks ago
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