New York Times Paywall Epic Fail
If you’re going to build a paywall around your web content, you really should try a little harder than this.
If you’re going to build a paywall around your web content, you really should try a little harder than this.
1 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 5:54:36pm |
Did they get the equivalent of Les Nesman's office tape as their web designer?
4 | Pythagoras Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:00:12pm |
I got an email from the NYT offering me free unlimited access through 2011. It was "presented by" Lincoln.
5 | cineaste Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:02:28pm |
To be fair, it was really only three lines of Javascript. The first line is just a comment explaining what the other three lines do!
I've always liked that the way around the WSJ paywall is to simply copy the title of the article, paste into google and hit "I'm feeling lucky" and you'll go right through. So stupid...
6 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:02:30pm |
LOL! Your content has to be good enough to need payment.
FAIL!
7 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:02:57pm |
my friend who lets me live in his old bunkhouse out back is a native of NYC, a typically liberal musician and artist, been reading the Times for 50 years finally gave it up a couple of years ago...he now considers it a second rate paper
8 | Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:07:09pm |
It sounds like the NYT's developers are confused about something very basic -- the code that runs in a user's browser versus the code that lives on the server and serves up the protected content.
Wow. I'm surprised to see this level of software naivete at such an exalted level.
9 | Bubblehead II Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:07:21pm |
Charles and Lizards. I have lost it.
Gould Night.
10 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:10:30pm |
re: #9 Bubblehead II
Charles and Lizards. I have lost it.
Gould Night.
Stephen Gould, or Glen Gould?
12 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:13:52pm |
13 | Stanghazi Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:13:56pm |
DCdebbie DC Debbie
by ebertchicago
In the state of Maryland alone, 88,600 children w/ pre-existing conditions are covered thanks to "Obamacare" ! SUCK ON THAT GOP.
14 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:14:00pm |
re: #8 Charles
For $50 million one would think they would hire the best, no?
I suspect what has happened is that the customer (NYT) has set so many mixed and conflicting requirements that a simple solution (which is often the best) isn't possible.
They've diddled with the paywall idea since the beginning of their web presence, and still haven't figured out how to do it right.
16 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:16:57pm |
re: #13 Stanley Sea
DCdebbie DC Debbie
by ebertchicagoIn the state of Maryland alone, 88,600 children w/ pre-existing conditions are covered thanks to "Obamacare" ! SUCK ON THAT GOP.
Pff, they were born, and now they expect the rest of us to take care of them? Communists.
///
17 | wrenchwench Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:19:04pm |
I'm outta here. I found a good one to leave in my wake...one of you made this, come on, fess up.
18 | eightyfiv Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:21:55pm |
Charles, this is not a security boundary. It's *supposed* to be leaky (as the article nicely discusses). I, for one, congratulate them on being willing to take the risk on a system like this. Let the nerds whine about how full of holes it is.
19 | engineer cat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:22:13pm |
0xDEADBEEF 0xDEADBEEF 0xDEADBEEF 0xDEADBEEF
don't mind me, that's just the way i feel today...
20 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:22:47pm |
re: #17 wrenchwench
I'm outta here. I found a good one to leave in my wake...one of you made this, come on, fess up.
That cat looks like a cross between Remy and Jack, our two cats. It has Remy's fur and attitude, and Jacks colour.
21 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:27:28pm |
The Libyan Glenn Beck....
Libyan TV Presenter Brandishes AK 47 On TV
I'm pretty sure it's a plastic gun.
22 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:29:37pm |
re: #21 Killgore Trout
The Libyan Glenn Beck...
Libyan TV Presenter Brandishes AK 47 On TV[Video]I'm pretty sure it's a plastic gun.
why would it be plastic?....it's likely his own personal weapon
23 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:31:11pm |
re: #22 albusteve
The magazine is a weird brown color. Also the weight is off if you watch him move it around.
24 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:31:43pm |
The world is,the way it is.
You are born into it, and you die into it.
HOW you go, is your choice.
So, choose.
25 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:32:14pm |
re: #6 Floral Giraffe
LOL! Your content has to be good enough to need payment.
FAIL!
The New York Times: All the News That's Fit to Wrap a Fish. [waves]
26 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:33:19pm |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The magazine is a weird brown color. Also the weight is off if you watch him move it around.
I noticed when he shifted it to his right, it seemed light....but I still think the odds are that it's a real rifle...maybe earthtone mags are a new fad over there
27 | Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:36:01pm |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The magazine is a weird brown color. Also the weight is off if you watch him move it around.
The third world is full of cheap tan/orange plastic magazines for the AK. Feel like a cross between fiberglass and bakelite.
28 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:37:34pm |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
The magazine is a weird brown color. Also the weight is off if you watch him move it around.
It's a AKM with a 30-round mag, Killgore. I've seen pictures of 30-round mags like that before. Their bodies are made of a type of plastic and they are lighter than steel AKM mags. So the mag is plastic but a real mag.
29 | Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:39:10pm |
re: #28 Dark_Falcon
It's a AKM with a 30-round mag, Killgore. I've seen pictures of 30-round mags like that before. Their bodies are made of a type of plastic and they are lighter than steel AKM mags. So the mag is plastic but a real mag.
Osama with same:
30 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:39:37pm |
re: #8 Charles
The NYT is also confused about how the intertubes work. You don't offer all your web content for free for years on end, then try to charge people almost $500 a year to use it. I've already deleted the iPhone app and all my NYT links, and plenty of other people I know are doing the same.
This shows their idiocy in picture form. The fact that I can get the WSJ, Netflix, Pandora, and MobileMe for a year for less than a year of the NYT makes their paywall fail that much bigger. I hope this bites them in the ass.
31 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:45:02pm |
32 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:47:12pm |
re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"I will sacrifice my last breath for you, my leader."
Challenge accepted.
I'd say his car is due for a fatal encounter with an MQ-9 Reaper.
33 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:47:13pm |
re: #25 Dark_Falcon
I don't know how to do this.
I can't do it well, right now.
It makes me cry, and I'm not a crier, but I don't know how to do this well.
34 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:48:16pm |
re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"I will sacrifice my last breath for you, my leader."
Challenge accepted.
Another cult of personality. There sure are a lot of weird assed people.
35 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:48:27pm |
when I get healthy, if ever, I'm going into the end times bunker business...people are crazy and some have big bucks, so why not?
$$$
36 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:48:27pm |
re: #33 Floral Giraffe
I don't know how to do this.
I can't do it well, right now.
It makes me cry, and I'm not a crier, but I don't know how to do this well.
What's wrong? Send an email if you need to explain privately.
37 | Political Atheist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:49:35pm |
re: #8 Charles
Remember the guys that did the GOP website? Now we know where they wound up.
38 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:49:39pm |
re: #30 Lidane
Eventually what will have to occur, I suspect, is that the NYT owners will have to finally admit that the business model that built the NYT global news empire will have to now include broadcast media, in order to get the revenue numbers needed to employee the number of bodies needed to be a leader in world wide "news".
39 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:49:43pm |
re: #33 Floral Giraffe
I don't know how to do this.
I can't do it well, right now.
It makes me cry, and I'm not a crier, but I don't know how to do this well.
Are you OK?
40 | Stanghazi Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:51:12pm |
re: #35 albusteve
when I get healthy, if ever, I'm going into the end times bunker business...people are crazy and some have big bucks, so why not?
$$$
Shit, I have to find the link. Killgore?
Steve, there is a business, here in my area of Del Mar selling these end times bunkers. 20K and up. Amazing. I was hoping to track down the owner's names, but had to work.
42 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:51:54pm |
re: #34 b_sharp
Another cult of personality. There sure are a lot of weird assed people.
Keith Richards has that type of insane follower...bunch of nutters, like he's some sort of god...what?
43 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:51:59pm |
re: #39 b_sharp
I'm, OK . I just want to damage something or someone right now.
That isn't like me.
Thank you for asking.
44 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:52:19pm |
re: #35 albusteve
when I get healthy, if ever, I'm going into the end times bunker business...people are crazy and some have big bucks, so why not?
$$$
I'm going to start a business for post rapture asset liquidation, so people's assets can be distributed after they're gone, then burn them in the fine print so I can seize all their goods January 1st, 2013.
45 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:53:09pm |
re: #43 Floral Giraffe
I'm, OK . I just want to damage something or someone right now.
That isn't like me.
Thank you for asking.
Email me if you need to.
46 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:53:20pm |
re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm going to start a business for post rapture asset liquidation, so people's assets can be distributed after they're gone, then burn them in the fine print so I can seize all their goods January 1st, 2013.
does that involve math?
47 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:54:12pm |
48 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:54:51pm |
49 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:54:57pm |
50 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:55:25pm |
re: #48 Floral Giraffe
Thanks, I can control myself.
OK. But you've got friends here, don't be afraid to lean on us.
51 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:55:50pm |
52 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:56:05pm |
re: #33 Floral Giraffe
I don't know how to do this.
I can't do it well, right now.
It makes me cry, and I'm not a crier, but I don't know how to do this well.
Hey. OK?
53 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:56:29pm |
54 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:56:53pm |
re: #48 Floral Giraffe
Thanks, I can control myself.
I'm sure you can. I'm more concerned about why you feel you need to control yourself.
56 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:58:06pm |
for Floral....speaking for many here
57 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:58:41pm |
re: #54 b_sharp
I'm sure you can. I'm more concerned about why you feel you need to control yourself.
it was the burrito special
58 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:58:51pm |
re: #54 b_sharp
LOL!
Thanks for the concern,all.
I just, well, can have mean throw them, kinda feelings.
Not usually acted upon.
Thanks.
59 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 6:59:26pm |
60 | HoosierHoops Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:00:09pm |
re: #35 albusteve
when I get healthy, if ever, I'm going into the end times bunker business...people are crazy and some have big bucks, so why not?
$$$
I'm with you bro..We could sell the end times packet deal and make millions..The zombieland shotgun, The end times magazine, Gold and seeds, lead lined tents and a web site with free full access
61 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:00:52pm |
re: #60 HoosierHoops
You could call the magazine, "Double Tap".
62 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:01:13pm |
Now, I feel like an attention whore.
So, I KNOW I'm not.Thanks for the good wishes, folks.
63 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:02:18pm |
re: #56 albusteve
for Floral...speaking for many here
[Video]
I love this one, and I know it by heart.
64 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:03:47pm |
re: #60 HoosierHoops
I'm with you bro..We could sell the end times packet deal and make millions..The zombieland shotgun, The end times magazine, Gold and seeds, lead lined tents and a web site with free full access
hey...the entire package, including the liquor and other get highs
65 | Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:06:29pm |
re: #64 albusteve
hey...the entire package, including the liquor and other get highs
Armageddon Geddon On--a dating service site for those left behind by significant others.
66 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:06:55pm |
Considering the frequent conversations about sock puppets, trolls and "personal management software," Anonymous and Barret Brown, I would imagine that no Lizard intends to exploit this "hole" in the NYT website... no one here promotes hacking, do they?
67 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:07:27pm |
re: #55 NJDhockeyfan
Good evening to you too.
I just got back from a (very) long birthday dinner for my 93 year old grandfather. Over dinner it came up that his mother had been from England, previously we had thought that my grandfathers family was had been in America since before the revolution. Turns out his mother had come to America in 1888 from the village of headly in southern England, maybe 40 miles north of Portsmouth. That conversation was the highlight of the four hour dinner.
How're the rest of you doing?
68 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:08:50pm |
The crows fear me.
If nothing else, that is satisfying.
69 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:09:33pm |
re: #65 Decatur Deb
Armageddon Geddon On--a dating service site for those left behind by significant others.
the possibilities are endless
70 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:10:51pm |
re: #68 Floral Giraffe
I hiss at Canadian geese as I walk by. It confuses them. One day I'll get the threatening neck bob right and they'll flee in terror from the giant goose!
71 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:11:39pm |
re: #30 Lidane
The NYT is also confused about how the intertubes work. You don't offer all your web content for free for years on end, then try to charge people almost $500 a year to use it. I've already deleted the iPhone app and all my NYT links, and plenty of other people I know are doing the same.
This shows their idiocy in picture form. The fact that I can get the WSJ, Netflix, Pandora, and MobileMe for a year for less than a year of the NYT makes their paywall fail that much bigger. I hope this bites them in the ass.
Zedushka says, NYT should just take down their website. Problem solved.
Of course, they may still have a problem of people reading the print edition for free from the public library, subway cars and airport lounges. Oh, and trash cans.
72 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:11:53pm |
Ain't No Sunshine....Sting covers Bill Withers
maybe someone can ID the wicked bad thing Sting is playing
73 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:12:11pm |
re: #67 BishopX
Good evening to you too.
I just got back from a (very) long birthday dinner for my 93 year old grandfather. Over dinner it came up that his mother had been from England, previously we had thought that my grandfathers family was had been in America since before the revolution. Turns out his mother had come to America in 1888 from the village of headly in southern England, maybe 40 miles north of Portsmouth. That conversation was the highlight of the four hour dinner.
How're the rest of you doing?
My grandmother was from Liverpool. Her mother was also from there and her father was from Ireland.
I got a tooth pulled this morning and spent most of the day in the office doing almost nothing.
74 | HoosierHoops Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:12:16pm |
re: #68 Floral Giraffe
The crows fear me.
If nothing else, that is satisfying.
Two Old Crows
by Vachel Lindsay
Two old crows sat on a fence rail.
Two old crows sat on a fence rail,
Thinking of effect and cause,
Of weeds and flowers,
And nature's laws.
One of them muttered, one of them stuttered,
One of them stuttered, one of them muttered.
Each of them thought far more than he uttered.
One crow asked the other crow a riddle.
One crow asked the other crow a riddle:
The muttering crow
Asked the stuttering crow,
“Why does a bee have a sword to his fiddle?
Why does a bee have a sword to his fiddle?”
“Bee-cause,” said the other crow,
“Bee-cause,
75 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:12:34pm |
re: #70 BishopX
I hiss at Canadian geese as I walk by. It confuses them. One day I'll get the threatening neck bob right and they'll flee in terror from the giant goose!
LOL!
They hiss right back at you!
77 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:13:36pm |
re: #70 BishopX
I hiss at Canadian geese as I walk by. It confuses them. One day I'll get the threatening neck bob right and they'll flee in terror from the giant goose!
How tasty are they? There are way too many around here.
78 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:14:17pm |
re: #56 albusteve
I love that tune.
Thank you.
Very much.
79 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:14:32pm |
80 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:15:20pm |
re: #77 NJDhockeyfan
How tasty are they? There are way too many around here.
Too much dark meat for me, but the rest of my family likes them.
81 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:16:03pm |
re: #77 NJDhockeyfan
How tasty are they? There are way too many around here.
they are excellent tasting, alas no white meat....sort of the Beef-O-Roni of fowl
82 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:16:48pm |
re: #80 b_sharp
Too much dark meat for me, but the rest of my family likes them.
I bet they make a tasty Foie Gras.
84 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:18:02pm |
re: #82 NJDhockeyfan
I bet they make a tasty Foie Gras.
I have no idea, I haven't eaten grass for years.
85 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:18:35pm |
re: #56 albusteve
for Floral...speaking for many here
[Video]
Can I upding that again?
It was JUST what I needed.
Thank you.
86 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:18:41pm |
re: #77 NJDhockeyfan
I live in the sweet spot where it's far enough south that they start to migrate and decide to stay. The pond near my house has maybe 30 of them living there year round, plus assorted ducks and seagulls. It's gotten so bad they've started dosing the eggs with corn oil to control the population. Never eaten one yet though.
87 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:19:44pm |
88 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:20:20pm |
Some nice quinoa ideas....
What's So Great About Quinoa Anyway?
I've been working on a bacon, onion, shitake quinoa which is coming along nicely.
in other quinoa news...
Quinoa’s Global Success Creates Quandary at Home
89 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:20:21pm |
90 | HoosierHoops Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:20:43pm |
re: #79 b_sharp
A goose once bit my wife.
In Indiana where a zillion Geese pass through, When one got sassy with me on the street I would just yell, ' Orange sauce bitch! ' worked every time
91 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:21:22pm |
Lizards are the bestest.
In case, you didn't know!
*smoochies to the you know who's.*
92 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:21:36pm |
re: #86 BishopX
I live in the sweet spot where it's far enough south that they start to migrate and decide to stay. The pond near my house has maybe 30 of them living there year round, plus assorted ducks and seagulls. It's gotten so bad they've started dosing the eggs with corn oil to control the population. Never eaten one yet though.
shoot em with a .22....nobody will know the difference...
temp makes little difference to a goose as long as there is open water and something to eat
93 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:22:03pm |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
You kicked at it, & it skittered off.
Betcha!
94 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:22:09pm |
95 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:22:58pm |
re: #92 albusteve
Given that this pond is the favorite lunch break hang out for the police force...yeah I don't think I'd carry anything around there.
96 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:22:59pm |
re: #86 BishopX
I live in the sweet spot where it's far enough south that they start to migrate and decide to stay. The pond near my house has maybe 30 of them living there year round, plus assorted ducks and seagulls. It's gotten so bad they've started dosing the eggs with corn oil to control the population. Never eaten one yet though.
We get clouds of Canada and Snow geese flying overhead. Last Fall I saw a tornado of geese flying around a large pond. There must have been tens of thousands of birds. Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera with me.
97 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:23:04pm |
re: #79 b_sharp
A goose once bit my wife.
I was once bitten by a swan. Got too close to the nest.
Luckily I was wearing jeans, so it was more startling than painful. I'm told they've been known to break a child's arm with their wings.
99 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:24:10pm |
100 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:24:46pm |
101 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:25:24pm |
The problem with teachers...
102 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:25:38pm |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
In Indiana where a zillion Geese pass through, When one got sassy with me on the street I would just yell, ' Orange sauce bitch! ' worked every time
We were at the Calgary Zoo and Mrs. Sharp was leaning against a low barrier where a number of geese were nesting. One came over and bit her in the ass. A goose goosed her.
103 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:26:39pm |
re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist
In brookline there as a wildlife sanctuary a town over. The train tracks run though it, and various wildlife will follow the tracks into town. I was renovating a house by the tracks a few summers ago, and I would see deer walking down the middle of a suburban street in the middle of the day.
104 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:27:13pm |
re: #100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
yeah... but that shit's just wrong.
People likey the diseased livers.
Well the geese don't need them anymore after their in the oven roasting. It seems such a waste to just toss them away.
105 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:28:31pm |
re: #104 NJDhockeyfan
Uh... you're just yanking my chain, I know...
But, do you know how they make it?
106 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:28:37pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
I was once bitten by a swan. Got too close to the nest.
Luckily I was wearing jeans, so it was more startling than painful. I'm told they've been known to break a child's arm with their wings.
Swans are vicious critters. I guess it's probably due to them being bullied when they were "ugly ducklings."
107 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:29:17pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
I was once bitten by a swan. Got too close to the nest.
Luckily I was wearing jeans, so it was more startling than painful. I'm told they've been known to break a child's arm with their wings.
I remember sitting at a picnic table in a park once when a swan landed nearby and promptly fell asleep. I'd never seen one up close before and didn't realize how huge they were. Wow.
I was close enough to touch it, but when we got ready to leave, I took great pains to scoot as quietly as I could in the opposite direction. I didn't want to startle it and have it freak out on me.
108 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:30:02pm |
re: #103 BishopX
In brookline there as a wildlife sanctuary a town over. The train tracks run though it, and various wildlife will follow the tracks into town. I was renovating a house by the tracks a few summers ago, and I would see deer walking down the middle of a suburban street in the middle of the day.
I had a deer run past me toward a major traffic street a few years ago. I called 911, and they were NOT helpful.
109 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:30:23pm |
re: #103 BishopX
At between 7:10 and 7:20 every morning a deer family walks through my yard.
They're more dependable than I am.
110 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:30:27pm |
re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I want into that "rapture" business model of yours.
111 | TedStriker Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:31:13pm |
re: #79 b_sharp
A goose once bit my wife.
Was she trying to carve her initials in it with an interspace toothbrush?
112 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:32:19pm |
re: #100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
yeah... but that shit's just wrong.
People likey the diseased livers.
I'm a carnivore and you'll never get me near foie gras or anything made from organ meats. I don't even eat the tripe in menudo, just because it makes me ill. Yuck.
113 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:32:28pm |
re: #106 Alouette
Oh! I love this!
114 | Interesting Times Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:33:25pm |
re: #75 Floral Giraffe
LOL!
They hiss right back at you!
I don't know if you've ever been out driving, only to have a gaggle of geese start crossing the road in that ambling, I'm-going-to-take-as-much-time-as-I-please style. If you honk at them, though, they'll simply honk back.
115 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:34:25pm |
re: #92 albusteve
shoot em with a .22...nobody will know the difference...
temp makes little difference to a goose as long as there is open water and something to eat
We used to have a coal power station that had a cooling pipe suspended on top of the lake. Even on the coldest days there was open water and geese.
116 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:35:07pm |
re: #80 b_sharp
Too much dark meat for me, but the rest of my family likes them.
I haven't tried one yet. I'm not a good cook, so my eating a goose would be contingent on my mother being willing to take the task of cooking it. She's got the skill to do it, and sometimes she likes to try new things. And when she does i make it a point to be at my parent's house to try said new thing.
117 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:36:03pm |
re: #115 b_sharp
Around here some of the geese and ducks have learned to swim in circles to keep the water open. You'll see 5-10 ducks and geese swimming in a circle with another 20 standing on the ice watching.
118 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:36:46pm |
re: #104 NJDhockeyfan
Well the geese don't need them anymore after their in the oven roasting. It seems such a waste to just toss them away.
Wild Geese have normal livers. Fois Gras is made from geese who have been force fed grain to bulk their liver up to three times its normal size. Fois Gras literally means 'fat liver' in French.
119 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:37:04pm |
re: #107 Lidane
I remember sitting at a picnic table in a park once when a swan landed nearby and promptly fell asleep. I'd never seen one up close before and didn't realize how huge they were. Wow.
I was close enough to touch it, but when we got ready to leave, I took great pains to scoot as quietly as I could in the opposite direction. I didn't want to startle it and have it freak out on me.
Swans are bloody big birds.
120 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:37:39pm |
121 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:37:44pm |
123 | sizzleRI Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:38:59pm |
124 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:39:11pm |
125 | jaunte Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:39:52pm |
re: #94 BishopX
We get wild turkey muggings around here. They like Starbucks.
This bit at your link made me curious::
Best of the blotter
* Protesters blocked the entrance to Williams Piano Shop on Harvard Street on Dec. 11. Police responded and the protesters left.
I wondered what they were protesting, and found this:
An uneasy relationship between Harvard Street businesses and a group of abortion protesters has developed since Women’s Health Services set up shop in the neighborhood a month ago.
.....snip.....
The state-mandated 35-foot buffer zone around the clinic’s entrance ends at the shop’s driveway — which is marked with “35” in white spray paint on the sidewalk — and Williams said protesters sometimes stand at the boundary and block his driveway.His grandparents set up the shop in 1954, and this is the first time he’s had to keep an eye on the property. He said he’s had to ask protesters to not stand in front of his driveway, and in one case, told a woman who was picketing with a sign in front of his display window to move away from the shop.
He’s been advised by police to post “No Trespassing” signs, but is uncomfortable with having to patrol his property, he said
[Link: www.wickedlocal.com...]
126 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:40:09pm |
127 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:40:24pm |
128 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:40:57pm |
re: #109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
At between 7:10 and 7:20 every morning a deer family walks through my yard.
They're more dependable than I am.
Keep them away from my garden!
129 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:42:09pm |
re: #123 sizzleRI
Its weird to see an article posted here about a Starbucks I can practically see from my apartment. And I hate wild turkeys.
I'd like a wild turkey... for dinner. Less breast meat, but better flavor. The trick would be getting my extended family together. The largest of wild turkeys would require a proper family gathering to consume.
130 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:43:35pm |
re: #128 NJDhockeyfan
Okay. I'll ask them nicely.
I can guarantee you will have no problem from my deer. But, I can't guarantee you they will not tell other deer about your garden...
131 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:44:22pm |
re: #129 Dark_Falcon
I'd like a wild turkey... for dinner. Less breast meat, but better flavor. The trick would be getting my extended family together. The largest of wild turkeys would require a proper family gathering to consume.
The only Wild Turkey we get around here comes in a bottle.
132 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:44:28pm |
Off topic, but the New York Times has this map of the Libyan Civil War. It's great. Currently, it sounds like Zuetina is under control of the rebels. Meanwhile, fighting is occuring at Ajdabiya, Zintan, and Misratah.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
133 | Interesting Times Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:45:13pm |
re: #123 sizzleRI
Its weird to see an article posted here about a Starbucks I can practically see from my apartment. And I hate wild turkeys.
Good thing Ben Franklin didn't get his wish, then: ;)
"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.
. . .
For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America . . . He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on."
134 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:45:20pm |
re: #132 ProLifeLiberal
Off topic, but the New York Times has this map of the Libyan Civil War. It's great. Currently, it sounds like Zuetina is under control of the rebels. Meanwhile, fighting is occuring at Ajdabiya, Zintan, and Misratah.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Can't you see we're talking turkey?
135 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:48:36pm |
re: #134 b_sharp
Maybe, but I thought people would be interested to see how things have worked. Anyway, it's the NY Times, so it is (somewhat) back on topic. Al Jazeera live blog hasn't had news in an hour. Looking to twitter.
136 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:48:53pm |
re: #131 b_sharp
The only Wild Turkey we get around here comes in a bottle.
The wild turkey has returned to Illinois and can now be found in the outer Chicago suburbs at times. But as for deer, they've been having a harder time of it since coyotes started arriving in numbers. When coyotes are near, deer travel in much larger groups for protection.
137 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:50:02pm |
re: #135 ProLifeLiberal
Maybe, but I thought people would be interested to see how things have worked. Anyway, it's the NY Times, so it is (somewhat) back on topic. Al Jazeera live blog hasn't had news in an hour. Looking to twitter.
You're good. I just couldn't resist a bit of word play at your expense.
I can be a real turkey sometimes.
138 | The Shadow Do Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:50:33pm |
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
139 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:51:20pm |
re: #136 Dark_Falcon
The wild turkey has returned to Illinois and can now be found in the outer Chicago suburbs at times. But as for deer, they've been having a harder time of it since coyotes started arriving in numbers. When coyotes are near, deer travel in much larger groups for protection.
Last year we had the first bounty on coyotes in 60 years. Just way too many of them.
140 | HoosierHoops Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:52:18pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
Don't ask me..I'm not the leader of the free world
141 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:52:22pm |
people will turn their nose up at eating a wild turkey, but then go off a chow down a Tyson chicken and poison themselves....twisted
142 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:52:59pm |
re: #132 ProLifeLiberal
It seems, based off of wikipedia that Zuetina (the more correct romanization is Az Zuwaytinah) is part of Ajdabiya Municipality (?). Which means that Rebels are fighting from staging points in suburbs(?).
143 | b_sharp Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:53:24pm |
G'night lizardoids from the planetoid LGF.
I'm signing off early.
144 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:53:40pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
Yes... we are trying to eliminate Gadaffi's ability to wage an air (or navel) war against the Libyan rebels, there for forcing him to go really tribal on the poor rebels by carrying on a ground war that will be similar to a massacre, since we promised no boots on the ground.
Our exit strategy, the rebels all die.
145 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:54:39pm |
146 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:55:31pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
New world Order!
147 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:55:45pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
deposing Mo...bottom line
but you knew that
148 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:56:24pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
At this point, I think we are going for the coalition acting as an Air Force and Navy for the rebels. The end game is Gaddafi's fall, as we have attacked him (justly), and if he survives, he will resume 80's behavior. At this point, Gaddafi must be removed.
149 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:57:03pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
Make Newt look stupid.
/The jokes pretty much write themselves
150 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:57:12pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
We are there to steal their oil!
//
151 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:58:19pm |
Seared Foie Gras with Almond French Toast and Berry Salsa
Prepared by Andrew Gutierrez of Las Ramblas
Hotel Contessa Suites on the Riverwalk
Mmmmmmmmm...
152 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:58:30pm |
re: #150 NJDhockeyfan
We are there to steal their oil!
//
I thought we were there to get Sarkozy re-elected.
153 | The Shadow Do Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:58:31pm |
I am comforted by all the erudite responses.
154 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:58:39pm |
re: #148 ProLifeLiberal
At this point, I think we are going for the coalition acting as an Air Force and Navy for the rebels. The end game is Gaddafi's fall, as we have attacked him (justly), and if he survives, he will resume 80's behavior. At this point, Gaddafi must be removed.
Well... unless the coalition manages to snuff him remotely, and sticks to the "promise" not to put boots on the ground, then Gaddafi is not going anywhere... but the rebels are... they're toast.
155 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:59:15pm |
re: #152 Killgore Trout
I thought we were there to get Sarkozy re-elected.
It's very confusing, isn't it?
156 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 7:59:28pm |
re: #154 Walter L. Newton
Well... unless the coalition manages to snuff him remotely, and sticks to the "promise" not to put boots on the ground, then Gaddafi is not going anywhere... but the rebels are... they're toast.
the rebels will prevail...I stake my reputation on it
157 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:00:15pm |
re: #151 NJDhockeyfan
Looks good. I wonder if liverwurst would make a suitable substitute.
158 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:00:28pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
Deposing Qaddaffi.
Annoying the GOP and the howler monkeys on the right by making them even more incoherent than usual, since they can't decide if they're for attacking Libya or against it.
Annoying the far left by deploying troops again, since none of them paid attention to what Obama actually said during his campaign.
Take your pick.
159 | The Shadow Do Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:00:53pm |
Rebels win, Khadafi wins...and the difference is?
160 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:00:58pm |
re: #154 Walter L. Newton
Well... unless the coalition manages to snuff him remotely, and sticks to the "promise" not to put boots on the ground, then Gaddafi is not going anywhere... but the rebels are... they're toast.
Not so much. With Gaddafi backed off of Benghazi, the rebels have gone onto the offensive in Ajdabiya again.
161 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:01:11pm |
re: #154 Walter L. Newton
Let's not count your chickens before they hatch. I think Gaddafi will lose in the end. Unlike, Albusteve through, I've emotionally invested in the Rebels and their plight. So I was very stressed Thursday.
I've also think much more of the French now.
162 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:01:42pm |
re: #156 albusteve
the rebels will prevail...I stake my reputation on it
No they won't. Gadaffi has a large supply of supporters, martyrs, mercenaries and MONEY. He can wage an old fashioned tribal war, you know, with all the body hacking and stuff like that, for years.
163 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:01:51pm |
re: #153 The Shadow Do
I am comforted by all the erudite responses.
I find solitude in your comfort.
164 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:02:02pm |
re: #159 The Shadow Do
Gaddafi dead is the difference, also (plausibly) one less dictatorship.
165 | Killgore Trout Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:02:31pm |
Should I google erudite? I got shit to do.
166 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:02:48pm |
re: #158 Lidane
Deposing Qaddaffi.
Annoying the GOP and the howler monkeys on the right by making them even more incoherent than usual, since they can't decide if they're for attacking Libya or against it.
Annoying the far left by deploying troops again, since none of them paid attention to what Obama actually said during his campaign.
Take your pick.
Actually, most Republicans favor the intervention. They just don't like Obama. Solution: Fox and other conservative outlets need to praise Nicholas Sarkozy and cast him as the political force behind this. He's much better from a conservative frame of mind than Obama.
167 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:02:55pm |
re: #159 The Shadow Do
Rebels win, Khadafi wins...and the difference is?
think positive...
the collective energy of everyone here can tip the balance in favor of the rebs....so put your money where your mouth is and start praying
168 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:03:38pm |
re: #160 Dark_Falcon
Not so much. With Gaddafi backed off of Benghazi, the rebels have gone onto the offensive in Ajdabiya again.
do we have any A-10s in Europe?
169 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:03:43pm |
re: #166 Dark_Falcon
Ironically, Sarkozy is much more of a, dare I say it - socialist - than Obama.
170 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:04:12pm |
re: #162 Walter L. Newton
Hs money is very much depleted, his support base size is unknown when push comes to shove, the mercenaries are there for money, which refers to the first point. Also, the various chunks of the military may want to save themselves from bombing and do something themselves.
171 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:04:31pm |
re: #160 Dark_Falcon
Not so much. With Gaddafi backed off of Benghazi, the rebels have gone onto the offensive in Ajdabiya again.
Forget it... Gaddafi can mount a ground war of attrition for years... he's fucking got the money and an endless supply of poor, hapless mercenaries who would cut off both sides of your ass for a weeks wage. The rebels have a limited supply of manpower, there is no one else putting boots on the ground to help them.
172 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:05:07pm |
re: #169 freetoken
Ironically, Sarkozy is much more of a, dare I say it - socialist - than Obama.
I don't know much about his policies but it wouldn't shock me since European right of center is much different then American right of center. Ditto left of center.
173 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:05:25pm |
174 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:05:42pm |
re: #171 Walter L. Newton
Forget it... Gaddafi can mount a ground war of attrition for years... he's fucking got the money and an endless supply of poor, hapless mercenaries who would cut off both sides of your ass for a weeks wage. The rebels have a limited supply of manpower, there is no one else putting boots on the ground to help them.
Mo is broke
175 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:05:47pm |
re: #168 albusteve
Germany. Spangdahlem Air Base to be precise, in Southwestern Germany.
176 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:06:18pm |
re: #169 freetoken
Ironically, Sarkozy is much more of a, dare I say it - socialist - than Obama.
Heh. I was just thinking that.
177 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:06:20pm |
re: #172 HappyWarrior
I don't know much about his policies but it wouldn't shock me since European right of center is much different then American right of center. Ditto left of center.
Edited to add, I think DF is talking about perceptions more than reality. I recall reading or hearing about a conservative letter to the editor writer who decried Obama's health care plan and vowed to move to Merkel's Germany where the health care is of course much more socialized than it is here.
178 | The Shadow Do Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:06:43pm |
This conflict reaks of absurdity. Funny in a Ionesco sort of way.
What the hell?
179 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:07:05pm |
re: #171 Walter L. Newton
Forget it... Gaddafi can mount a ground war of attrition for years... he's fucking got the money and an endless supply of poor, hapless mercenaries who would cut off both sides of your ass for a weeks wage. The rebels have a limited supply of manpower, there is no one else putting boots on the ground to help them.
His money supply is much reduced. Most of his accounts have been frozen, and oil isn't being exported. And he has to move those mercs into place to fight the rebels. Not an easy task when the skies are hostile.
180 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:07:05pm |
re: #170 ProLifeLiberal
Hs money is very much depleted, his support base size is unknown when push comes to shove, the mercenaries are there for money, which refers to the first point. Also, the various chunks of the military may want to save themselves from bombing and do something themselves.
Wanna bet?
"Gaddafi remaining in power will be a destructive and destabilising force throughout the Arab world," wrote British lord David Owen in The Daily Mirror last Friday. "[Gaddafi] has amassed considerable undeclared gold reserves and he will use that money to create trouble not just for immediate neighbours but further afield."
[Link: news.goldseek.com...]
[Link: www.mirror.co.uk...]
You are evidently not aware of the facts.
181 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:07:11pm |
re: #173 Dark_Falcon
I do not believe so. But we can send some.
they could easily be there in less than 48hrs
182 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:07:29pm |
183 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:07:50pm |
184 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:09:44pm |
re: #179 Dark_Falcon
re: #174 albusteve
re: #170 ProLifeLiberal
The international community has hit Muammer Gaddafi with a raft of sanctions and asset freezes aimed at cutting off his funding. But the embattled Libyan leader is sitting on a pot of gold. The Libyan central bank – which is under Colonel Gaddafi’s control – holds 143.8 tonnes of gold (among the top 25 reserves in the world, and worth more than $6.5 bln at current prices), according to the latest data from the IMF, although some suspect the true amount could be several tonnes higher. – FT
[Link: wallstreetpit.com...]
185 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:10:14pm |
re: #175 ProLifeLiberal
Germany. Spangdahlem Air Base to be precise, in Southwestern Germany.
seize an airbase within Libya and bing bang boom!....no more tanks or troop movements of any size....bring all forces to bear with extreme firepower and get it over with....people sit and wonder how you do that, but the US military machine is extremely capable...fuck the politics and kill Mo
186 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:10:31pm |
I just did a look-see. The Daily Mirror has a....less than stellar reputation.
187 | prairiefire Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:10:37pm |
"Christopher Hitchens is unwell"[Link: www.slate.com...]
Could be a turn for the worse. I hope not.
188 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:11:02pm |
re: #177 HappyWarrior
Edited to add, I think DF is talking about perceptions more than reality.
Which is hilarious, given that Sarkozy openly and loudly opposed the US invasion of Iraq, and still does. The howler monkeys ripped him apart ofr that, but suddenly he's a hero on the right over Libya because he's not Obama? Heh.
189 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:11:49pm |
re: #187 prairiefire
"Christopher Hitchens is unwell"[Link: www.slate.com...]
Could be a turn for the worse. I hope not.
Poor guy, I don't always agree with Hitchens but he's always had a wonderful ability to make one think about things you otherwise wouldn't think about.
190 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:12:15pm |
Then try re: #184 Walter L. Newton... and stop dreaming.
191 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:12:53pm |
re: #138 The Shadow Do
Does anyone have the slightest idea what we are trying to achieve in Libya?
My best guess, in no special order:
1. Reduce civilian casualties
2. Give the rebels a chance to overthrow Gaddafi
3. Try to reduce the chances of a lingering civil war in an oil-producing nation.
4. Win friends and influence people by responding to international calls for action
5. Send visible but not overly committal signals about the United States' feelings about the rumblings in the Arab world.
192 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:13:01pm |
I've seen this tweet a lot in the past few minutes.
Mama2ormore: RT @ChangeInLibya: Look at this: A Libyan "rebel" pays more attention to the reporter's life than his own
#libya #feb17
Can someone tell me what the video shows. I'm mildly afraid of concentrated stupid.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
193 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:13:55pm |
re: #186 ProLifeLiberal
I just did a look-see. The Daily Mirror has a...less than stellar reputation.
And the data comes from The Financial Times, which has a stellar reputation, internationally... if you have a password for their website, you can link to the data from the Wallstreetpit article I linked to above.
194 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:14:10pm |
re: #182 Walter L. Newton
Bullshit... see... re: #180 Walter L. Newton
pay his mercs with gold bricks?....nobody in the world is gonna give him any spendable tender for it...his wealth is all akimbo right now, and sentiment against him is raging....I called for speed, speed and more speed when this thing started and I don't think it's too late to defeat him...there are favorable turns of events yet to happen....bet me
195 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:14:46pm |
re: #188 Lidane
Which is hilarious, given that Sarkozy openly and loudly opposed the US invasion of Iraq, and still does. The howler monkeys ripped him apart ofr that, but suddenly he's a hero on the right over Libya because he's not Obama? Heh.
I think the latter is all that matters to the howler monkeys. Many of them wanted to rip apart Obama before he was even sworn in as president.
196 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:15:08pm |
re: #194 albusteve
pay his mercs with gold bricks?...nobody in the world is gonna give him any spendable tender for it...his wealth is all akimbo right now, and sentiment against him is raging...I called for speed, speed and more speed when this thing started and I don't think it's too late to defeat him...there are favorable turns of events yet to happen...bet me
Try something... look at a map... you see that BIG CONTINENT under Libya... That's Africa... sure, you can't get anything for gold in Africa. LOL.
197 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:15:28pm |
My link was stupid. He's a better one. It shows Richard Engel in danger.
198 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:17:08pm |
re: #169 freetoken
Ironically, Sarkozy is much more of a, dare I say it - socialist - than Obama.
Well, he'd have to be, to function in French politics.
199 | The Shadow Do Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:17:44pm |
Personally I don't give a rip about Libya. I don't think the admin does either but is caught in the grips of international pressure.
Stupid, stupid foreign policy.
Sadness ensues.
200 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:18:05pm |
Here... the Financial Times article in full...
"Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - [Link: www.ft.com...]
The international community has hit Muammer Gaddafi with a raft of sanctions and asset freezes aimed at cutting off his funding. But the embattled Libyan leader is sitting on a pot of gold.
The Libyan central bank – which is under Colonel Gaddafi’s control – holds 143.8 tonnes of gold, according to the latest data from the International Monetary Fund, although some suspect the true amount could be several tonnes higher.
Those reserves, among the top 25 in the world, are worth more than $6.5bn at current prices, enough to pay a small army of mercenaries for months or even years..."
Continued at...
[Link: www.ft.com...]
201 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:18:23pm |
re: #184 Walter L. Newton
re: #174 albusteve
re: #170 ProLifeLiberal
The international community has hit Muammer Gaddafi with a raft of sanctions and asset freezes aimed at cutting off his funding. But the embattled Libyan leader is sitting on a pot of gold. The Libyan central bank – which is under Colonel Gaddafi’s control – holds 143.8 tonnes of gold (among the top 25 reserves in the world, and worth more than $6.5 bln at current prices), according to the latest data from the IMF, although some suspect the true amount could be several tonnes higher. – FT
[Link: wallstreetpit.com...]
We should broadcast that fact. Just let Glenn Beck and Ron Paul know and they'll be calling for the 82nd Airborne to be deployed the next day.
/kidding, having some fun at the expense of the goldbugs
202 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:19:14pm |
re: #200 Walter L. Newton
Mo's got more money than friends, for sure.
203 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:19:32pm |
re: #194 albusteve
pay his mercs with gold bricks?...nobody in the world is gonna give him any spendable tender for it...his wealth is all akimbo right now, and sentiment against him is raging...I called for speed, speed and more speed when this thing started and I don't think it's too late to defeat him...there are favorable turns of events yet to happen...bet me
Here Steve...
"Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - [Link: www.ft.com...]
But Col Gaddafi could transport the gold to Chad or Niger, where the gold could be swapped for currency transferred into a bank owned by the Libyan Foreign Bank – a branch of the central bank.
“If a country like Libya wants to make their gold liquid it would probably be in the form of a swap – whether for arms, food or cash,” said Walter de Wet, head of commodities research at Standard Bank."
[Link: www.ft.com...]
204 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:19:48pm |
I hate Chavez even more now.
205 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:20:51pm |
re: #201 Dark_Falcon
We should broadcast that fact. Just let Glenn Beck and Ron Paul know and they'll be calling for the 82nd Airborne to be deployed the next day.
/kidding, having some fun at the expense of the goldbugs
Yes... and completely ignoring what I am telling you. Now do you still think that Gadaffi doesn't have the resources to sit this out for years?
206 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:21:27pm |
re: #196 Walter L. Newton
Try something... look at a map... you see that BIG CONTINENT under Libya... That's Africa... sure, you can't get anything for gold in Africa. LOL.
I don't doubt that raw gold is usable over there...but getting it and using it is another problem...I suspect his mercs want US dollars or Pounds or whatever and even demand it
207 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:23:07pm |
My point being... unless we put men on the ground, boots, either an international force, or we start supplying the rebels with arms, money and in-county intelligence support, the rebels are toast.
To do any of those things will be far above the "no fly zone" sanctions that the UN agreed on...
209 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:24:04pm |
re: #206 albusteve
I don't doubt that raw gold is usable over there...but getting it and using it is another problem...I suspect his mercs want US dollars or Pounds or whatever and even demand it
He's fucking paying the mercs RIGHT NOW... you think they are taking IOU's?
210 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:24:05pm |
re: #206 albusteve
Also, trying to move it won't work. Plane is out of the question, and doing it by road will get someone's attention. Gaddafi's done.
Also, I can't believe that you and me are arguing from the same point of view of this. I see why some doubt me being a Liberal sometimes. This is the exception though.
211 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:24:06pm |
re: #204 ProLifeLiberal
I hate Chavez even more now.
Those would be an issue. I've let myself slip; I didn't really know about the SA-24.
212 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:24:41pm |
Speaking of Libya, world oil prices are up to nearly $122/bbl for the best quality, with WTI bringing up the rear at $105:
[Link: www.upstreamonline.com...]
213 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:24:51pm |
214 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:26:02pm |
re: #203 Walter L. Newton
Here Steve...
"Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - [Link: www.ft.com...]
But Col Gaddafi could transport the gold to Chad or Niger, where the gold could be swapped for currency transferred into a bank owned by the Libyan Foreign Bank – a branch of the central bank.
“If a country like Libya wants to make their gold liquid it would probably be in the form of a swap – whether for arms, food or cash,” said Walter de Wet, head of commodities research at Standard Bank."
[Link: www.ft.com...]
good grief...how long does this Ludlum plot play out?....he'd get ratted out instantly....in his position it's impossible to come up with tons of currency...he's in deep shit and passing fortunes in arms, and mercs, and fortunes in gold and cash is not gonna happen
215 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:26:15pm |
re: #204 ProLifeLiberal
There have always been a long list of reasons for me to hate that guy. Another one doesn't make much difference, since my opinion of him can't get any lower. Screw Chavez.
216 | freetoken Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:26:32pm |
I hope y'all are ready for some serious inflation.
At the local supermarket, the prices on good quality ice cream (HD, B&J) are now $4.49/pt . That's a dollar more than it was just last year.
217 | The Shadow Do Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:28:16pm |
re: #216 freetoken
I hope y'all are ready for some serious inflation.
At the local supermarket, the prices on good quality ice cream (HD, B&J) are now $4.49/pt . That's a dollar more than it was just last year.
That's it! I'm takin to the streets and Sarkozy will back me up
218 | webevintage Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:28:24pm |
Man, the GOP really hates those working/middle class union workers:
Buried Provision In House GOP Bill Would Cut Off Food Stamps To Entire Families If One Member Strikes
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
219 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:28:47pm |
re: #208 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Walter, how was the movie?
Comedically... a mix bag. It vacillated between subtle British comedy and American-styled bathroom humor... which in my opinion, broke the comedic rhythm of the movie. Yes, it was funny at times, but it was shaky, some jokes fell flat.
What was most enjoyable was the fact that it was sentimental, I really enjoyed the tender moments more than anything.
So, over all, not a waste of your time, but if you are expecting 2 hours of "Superbad" vulgar humor, or a constant barrage of tight-fisted British humor, you're going to be disappointed.
220 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:28:50pm |
re: #215 Lidane
I'm someone with intense emotions, so I can ALWAYS can more hatred for a group or man.
221 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:29:32pm |
re: #209 Walter L. Newton
He's fucking paying the mercs RIGHT NOW... you think they are taking IOU's?
no, but the funds have to be extremely limited, until you try and pay them in gold dust or whatever...when money becomes a question and a doubt, his sub Saharan killers will split...and that can be accomplished if we really want it to
222 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:29:34pm |
re: #220 ProLifeLiberal
I'm someone with intense emotions, so I can ALWAYS can more hatred for a group or man.
Interesting?
223 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:29:50pm |
re: #218 webevintage
Man, the GOP really hates those working/middle class union workers:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
Agh, just agh. Sidenote, I learned tonight that Friday is the centennial of the Triangle Shirt Waist fire, if people wonder why unions exist, they need to look at that story.
224 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:30:16pm |
re: #221 albusteve
no, but the funds have to be extremely limited, until you try and pay them in gold dust or whatever...when money becomes a question and a doubt, his sub Saharan killers will split...and that can be accomplished if we really want it to
I guess you didn't read the FT article... I'm not going to keep talking about this, you're not even addressing the points made in the article.
Can it.
225 | webevintage Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:30:57pm |
re: #223 HappyWarrior
Agh, just agh. Sidenote, I learned tonight that Friday is the centennial of the Triangle Shirt Waist fire, if people wonder why unions exist, they need to look at that story.
Watched the HBO doc that was on Monday...heartbreaking.
226 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:31:18pm |
re: #218 webevintage
Man, the GOP really hates those working/middle class union workers:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
JOBS! FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY! INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY!
227 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:31:18pm |
re: #222 Walter L. Newton
My family's theory is that the AS has resulted in me having extremely limited emotional controls. This is one consequence.
228 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:31:54pm |
re: #221 albusteve
Even NPR has a perspective on this... but no worry, you have it all figured out... nothing to worry about.
[Link: www.npr.org...]
229 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:32:24pm |
re: #227 ProLifeLiberal
My family's theory is that the AS has resulted in me having extremely limited emotional controls. This is one consequence.
"AS" ?
230 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:32:49pm |
re: #220 ProLifeLiberal
Not me. After a certain point, those people aren't worth the energy.
Chavez is an ass and I won't miss him when he's gone, but I'm also not going to get hot under the collar over his asshole ways, just because he's not worth the stress. I have enough real problems to deal with in my life.
231 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:33:12pm |
re: #225 webevintage
Watched the HBO doc that was on Monday...heartbreaking.
I didn't know they made one. By the way has anyone ever read Anzia Yezierska's collection of short stories, Hungry Hearts. Just had to read that for my English class this week and it's mainly about the experiences of working Jewish women in Manhattan around that same era. Found it kinda relatable to my own ancestors' experiences as miners in Western Pa.
232 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:33:20pm |
re: #229 Walter L. Newton
Asperger's Syndrome. I mentioned it a long time ago on here a few times.
233 | Kragar Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:33:28pm |
re: #219 Walter L. Newton
Comedically... a mix bag. It vacillated between subtle British comedy and American-styled bathroom humor... which in my opinion, broke the comedic rhythm of the movie. Yes, it was funny at times, but it was shaky, some jokes fell flat.
What was most enjoyable was the fact that it was sentimental, I really enjoyed the tender moments more than anything.
So, over all, not a waste of your time, but if you are expecting 2 hours of "Superbad" vulgar humor, or a constant barrage of tight-fisted British humor, you're going to be disappointed.
Thanks. Think I'll just get it on video later then.
234 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:33:55pm |
re: #224 Walter L. Newton
I guess you didn't read the FT article... I'm not going to keep talking about this, you're not even addressing the points made in the article.
Can it.
of course I read it, but I disagree with it's conclusions...and I say that paying foreigners to kill patriots, even tho it's worked so far, will ultimately fail, just like your argument otherwise...vaults full of gold bricks will likely be a liability for him rather than an asset
235 | webevintage Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:34:01pm |
re: #219 Walter L. Newton
Comedically... a mix bag. It vacillated between subtle British comedy and American-styled bathroom humor... which in my opinion, broke the comedic rhythm of the movie. Yes, it was funny at times, but it was shaky, some jokes fell flat.
What was most enjoyable was the fact that it was sentimental, I really enjoyed the tender moments more than anything.
So, over all, not a waste of your time, but if you are expecting 2 hours of "Superbad" vulgar humor, or a constant barrage of tight-fisted British humor, you're going to be disappointed.
Paul?
236 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:34:32pm |
re: #232 ProLifeLiberal
Asperger's Syndrome. I mentioned it a long time ago on here a few times.
I have Asperger's too.
237 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:34:36pm |
re: #221 albusteve
And this is a fucking WORLD ECONOMY... there are fucking tons of people with money that would have no problem making a few bucks off of some discounted gold... owned by Mo. Sorry, for you to assume that Gadaffi can't move his gold for hard cash or hard goods is juvenile.
This is not like a poors mans stash in the Caribbean.
239 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:35:43pm |
re: #232 ProLifeLiberal
Asperger's Syndrome. I mentioned it a long time ago on here a few times.
Got it.
240 | webevintage Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:36:57pm |
re: #231 HappyWarrior
I didn't know they made one. By the way has anyone ever read Anzia Yezierska's collection of short stories, Hungry Hearts. Just had to read that for my English class this week and it's mainly about the experiences of working Jewish women in Manhattan around that same era. Found it kinda relatable to my own ancestors' experiences as miners in Western Pa.
No, but it is on my list now....
241 | prairiefire Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:38:35pm |
re: #231 HappyWarrior
I didn't know they made one. By the way has anyone ever read Anzia Yezierska's collection of short stories, Hungry Hearts. Just had to read that for my English class this week and it's mainly about the experiences of working Jewish women in Manhattan around that same era. Found it kinda relatable to my own ancestors' experiences as miners in Western Pa.
Yes, that sounds like a good read.
242 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:39:08pm |
re: #235 webevintage
Er... yes... Paul... I enjoyed it, just don't have expectations based on other Pegg/Frost films... this is a odd mix of American and British humor.
243 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:39:33pm |
re: #237 Walter L. Newton
And this is a fucking WORLD ECONOMY... there are fucking tons of people with money that would have no problem making a few bucks off of some discounted gold... owned by Mo. Sorry, for you to assume that Gadaffi can't move his gold for hard cash or hard goods is juvenile.
This is not like a poors mans stash in the Caribbean.
I'm saying he can't if we don't allow it...maybe I was not clear
an arms convoy or enough men and weapons to make a difference coming across the desert is easily detectable...or cash of that huge amount, or anything else...it's just not a forgone conclusion to me that Mo can pull off a loyalist/merc triumph...way too many factors beside his wealth and ability to pay for his killing
244 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:41:14pm |
re: #240 webevintage
No, but it is on my list now...
Cool, I think she really does an interesting job of exploring what America meant to immigrants. I definitely liked reading it much better then the Gertrude Stein short story I had to read earlier in the semester.
245 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:41:30pm |
re: #218 webevintage
Man, the GOP really hates those working/middle class union workers:
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
That's actually a pretty good idea. Those already on food stamps don't lose their benefits, but you can't go on strike and then apply. The government should not subsidize strikes.
246 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:41:38pm |
re: #243 albusteve
I don't think we would allow it. Especially not the French, who seem to be taking delight in playing "Boom Goes Gaddafi's Stuff."
247 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:43:48pm |
re: #241 prairiefire
Yes, that sounds like a good read.
Yeah, my professor wasn't too high on her writing style but I have to say I am a sucker for stories about Americanization. And as I said it was hard not to find some relatability there with my own family's experiences. Plus, I think the dialogue is believable and I enjoy well written and realistic dialogue too.
248 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:44:09pm |
re: #243 albusteve
I'm saying he can't if we don't allow it...maybe I was not clear
an arms convoy or enough men and weapons to make a difference coming across the desert is easily detectable...or cash of that huge amount, or anything else...it's just not a forgone conclusion to me that Mo can pull off a loyalist/merc triumph...way too many factors beside his wealth and ability to pay for his killing
The UN has sanctioned the necessary military operations to set up a NO FLY ZONE... not a no land vehicle zone... not a no troop movement zone... Gadaffi has tanks, troops and various other land based operations going on at the VERY MOMENT and we can't stop him...
The only way to stop him is to go far beyond the outline of the UN plans and/or put boots on the ground.
That's not going to happen... is it?
249 | NervyNews Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:44:49pm |
totally OT: Muslim Canadian Congress founder & talkshow host Tarek Fatah believes the Toronto police force has been infiltrated by Islamists. Find out more HERE.
250 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:44:59pm |
re: #246 ProLifeLiberal
I don't think we would allow it. Especially not the French, who seem to be taking delight in playing "Boom Goes Gaddafi's Stuff."
probably not...maybe Walter is right, who knows?
but I don't think so...Libya is probably crawling with CIA and SAS people, consider that
251 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:45:02pm |
re: #231 HappyWarrior
I didn't know they made one. By the way has anyone ever read Anzia Yezierska's collection of short stories, Hungry Hearts. Just had to read that for my English class this week and it's mainly about the experiences of working Jewish women in Manhattan around that same era. Found it kinda relatable to my own ancestors' experiences as miners in Western Pa.
No, I read a couple of her novels, but never the short stories.
252 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:45:07pm |
re: #246 ProLifeLiberal
I don't think we would allow it. Especially not the French, who seem to be taking delight in playing "Boom Goes Gaddafi's Stuff."
Bombing a convoy is not setting up a NO FLY ZONE.
253 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:46:57pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
That's actually a pretty good idea. Those already on food stamps don't lose their benefits, but you can't go on strike and then apply. The government should not subsidize strikes.
Dark I like you, but every time you open your mouth about unions I want to slap it shut.
Do you not see how doing something like this would make it easier for companies to break strikes by making it harder for those people who are trying to strike to feed their families?
254 | ProBosniaLiberal Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:47:32pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
The UN resolution gave the coalition very wide ability to act. This would be something we could decide to stop. I'm pretty sure France playing "Whack-a-Tank" in Eastern Libya had nothing to do with a No-Fly Zone. This is more than that, I'm reasonably sure.
255 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:48:00pm |
re: #249 GNIDAthe#seCond
totally OT: Muslim Canadian Congress founder & talkshow host Tarek Fatah believes the Toronto police force has been infiltrated by Islamists. Find out more HERE.
I am perfectly willing to believe that the Toronto PD screwed up a case involving threats. It happens to all departments.
I am not willing to believe, without substantially more evidence, that the Toronto PD has been 'infiltrated by Islamists, like the London PD'.
256 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:48:42pm |
My basic point on this is simply... short of getting lucky and placing a Trident missile into Mo's ear... the only way he is going to be stopped is to put something on the ground... us, the french, Nato, something on the GROUND.
Which would be fine with me, but I'm not under the illusion that much can be accomplished by playing hands off.
257 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:49:01pm |
re: #248 Walter L. Newton
The UN has sanctioned the necessary military operations to set up a NO FLY ZONE... not a no land vehicle zone... not a no troop movement zone... Gadaffi has tanks, troops and various other land based operations going on at the VERY MOMENT and we can't stop him...
The only way to stop him is to go far beyond the outline of the UN plans and/or put boots on the ground.
That's not going to happen... is it?
yes, I think it will, but not with a bunch of French combat troops...there are ways to degrade his situation without too much killing, just kill the right people and severely mess up Mos ability to move around and conduct his affairs
258 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:49:10pm |
re: #248 Walter L. Newton
The UN has sanctioned the necessary military operations to set up a NO FLY ZONE... not a no land vehicle zone... not a no troop movement zone... Gadaffi has tanks, troops and various other land based operations going on at the VERY MOMENT and we can't stop him...
The only way to stop him is to go far beyond the outline of the UN plans and/or put boots on the ground.
That's not going to happen... is it?
Walter the UN sanctioned all military operations short of an occupying force to stop Gadaffi from harming his people.
So yeah, we could easily stay within the bounds of the UN plans and stop him through massive air strikes.
Hell the UN plans would even not have a problem with boots on the ground....
259 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:50:10pm |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
Bombing a convoy is not setting up a NO FLY ZONE.
oh well...no fly, no drive...whatever eh?
fuck the UN
260 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:50:18pm |
re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist
No, I read a couple of her novels, but never the short stories.
I'd like to read the novels now. I am not a huge novel reader but American literature from 1900-right before the stock market crashed is something I've always liked. There's something about that era that appeals to me. I guess it's because it's the era that my mom's grandparents emigrated here and started Americanizing and it's also around when my dad's parents came of age so I think of them when reading lit from that era and think about all the profound changes in the world that were happening then.
261 | Walter L. Newton Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:50:25pm |
re: #258 jamesfirecat
Walter the UN sanctioned all military operations short of an occupying force to stop Gadaffi from harming his people.
So yeah, we could easily stay within the bounds of the UN plans and stop him through massive air strikes.
Hell the UN plans would even not have a problem with boots on the ground...
James... go back up thread, read some shit, and then get back to me.
And by the way, don't you ever fucking threaten Dark Falcon like that again. ("Dark I like you, but every time you open your mouth about unions I want to slap it shut."
262 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:50:36pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
That's actually a pretty good idea. Those already on food stamps don't lose their benefits, but you can't go on strike and then apply. The government should not subsidize strikes.
It's a shitty idea. It basically means that employers just have to dig their heels in and ignore the reason for the strikes in the first place. Workers -- especially the blue collar "Real American" ones that the GOP claims to love so much-- would be screwed, since their boss would just wait them out until they get desperate and screw them all over again. Nothing would change.
Bad form, and another slap in the face to the poor and middle class, further proving that anyone who makes under $250k and votes Republican is a useful idiot. Also, notice that there's no distinction between public and private unions.
263 | prairiefire Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:51:07pm |
re: #247 HappyWarrior
Yeah, my professor wasn't too high on her writing style but I have to say I am a sucker for stories about Americanization. And as I said it was hard not to find some relatability there with my own family's experiences. Plus, I think the dialogue is believable and I enjoy well written and realistic dialogue too.
My Swedish grandma loved the movie "I Remember Mama" because it reminded her of her immigrant parents.[Link: www.imdb.com...]
264 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:51:57pm |
re: #253 jamesfirecat
Dark I like you, but every time you open your mouth about unions I want to slap it shut.
Do you not see how doing something like this would make it easier for companies to break strikes by making it harder for those people who are trying to strike to feed their families?
Yes, I do. I don't care. If someone is in a private sector union, they (in the main, there are a few exceptions in the law) have the right to strike. But they do not have the right to force me to pay for their strike by applying for government benefits to replace their lost wages.
265 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:52:33pm |
re: #258 jamesfirecat
From the resolution:
4. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;
What we have seen up to this point is stage one. The coalition forces destroyed the fixed Libyan AA capabilities (radar, ammo dumps, airfields, missle batteries...etc). The next phase involves flying patrols over civilian populations and preventing Libyan ground forces from acting against them. Typically they start with a radio broadcast and end with a air to ground missle strike. We'll see how well this part works.
266 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:52:35pm |
re: #263 prairiefire
My Swedish grandma loved the movie "I Remember Mama" because it reminded her of her immigrant parents.[Link: www.imdb.com...]
Yeah I can see why that would be appealing, I remember my Irish grandmother loving the works of Frank McCourt. Her childhood wasn't as sad as his but I think she could relate to it since like Frank, she too knew the pain of losing a close relative, in her case it was her mother at a very young age.
267 | prairiefire Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:53:49pm |
re: #260 HappyWarrior
I'd like to read the novels now. I am not a huge novel reader but American literature from 1900-right before the stock market crashed is something I've always liked. There's something about that era that appeals to me. I guess it's because it's the era that my mom's grandparents emigrated here and started Americanizing and it's also around when my dad's parents came of age so I think of them when reading lit from that era and think about all the profound changes in the world that were happening then.
So, of course, lots of F. Scott Fitzgerald. Some of the comics are good -Richard Benchly. I'll think of more. Oy, I'm falling asleep. Night, lizards.
268 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:53:52pm |
re: #264 Dark_Falcon
Yes, I do. I don't care. If someone is in a private sector union, they (in the main, there are a few exceptions in the law) have the right to strike. But they do not have the right to force me to pay for their strike by applying for government benefits to replace their lost wages.
So basically, they have the right to strike, and the right to get immediately fucked over by their bosses for it, since the only thing an employer would have to do is ignore the strike and dig their heels in?
Real solid labor policy there.
269 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:55:27pm |
re: #268 Lidane
They also have the right to starve if the their employer locks them out during a contract dispute. Not all strikes are union initiated.
270 | albusteve Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:55:46pm |
ah...
the eternal question...
righty tighty or lefty loosy
271 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:57:13pm |
re: #267 prairiefire
So, of course, lots of F. Scott Fitzgerald. Some of the comics are good -Richard Benchly. I'll think of more. Oy, I'm falling asleep. Night, lizards.
You know, I really need to read the Great Gatsby finally. One of my regrets about my high school literature education is we were mostly educated on short stories rather than novels. For example, I didn't read Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird until I took a course on film and literature in college. Now I did enjoy some good short stories. one of my personal favorites being Liam O'Flaherty's The Sniper which is a very great story and I also remember enjoying hte Most Dangerous Game too.
272 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:57:17pm |
re: #269 BishopX
They also have the right to starve if the their employer locks them out during a contract dispute. Not all strikes are union initiated.
Ah. I forgot that one.
Like I said -- real solid labor policy there. =P
273 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:57:49pm |
re: #269 BishopX
They also have the right to starve if the their employer locks them out during a contract dispute. Not all strikes are union initiated.
A good point.
274 | SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:58:17pm |
re: #271 HappyWarrior
You know, I really need to read the Great Gatsby finally. One of my regrets about my high school literature education is we were mostly educated on short stories rather than novels. For example, I didn't read Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird until I took a course on film and literature in college. Now I did enjoy some good short stories. one of my personal favorites being Liam O'Flaherty's The Sniper which is a very great story and I also remember enjoying hte Most Dangerous Game too.
Gatsby is, frankly, better when you're a grown-up. I didn't understand it very well when I read it in high school. I taught it a couple of years ago, and liked it much better.
275 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:58:30pm |
re: #264 Dark_Falcon
Yes, I do. I don't care. If someone is in a private sector union, they (in the main, there are a few exceptions in the law) have the right to strike. But they do not have the right to force me to pay for their strike by applying for government benefits to replace their lost wages.
Dark in light of Walter's statement I apologize to you last comment in regards to how it could have been taken as violent.
It just infuriates me the way that you and I agree on so much and seem to respect each other's positions when we disagree on economics in general... but your union policy I just can't wrap my head around...
I think we were raised by two very different families in this case Dark, just please for future reference keep in that my mom, my dad, and my brother ALL belong to public sector unions (one as a school IT specialist and two working for the FDA) as you choose how to phrase your comments about them....
276 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:59:18pm |
re: #268 Lidane
So basically, they have the right to strike, and the right to get immediately fucked over by their bosses for it, since the only thing an employer would have to do is ignore the strike and dig their heels in?
Real solid labor policy there.
If the employer can accept having their business shut down. And the workers can use their savings or they can go to private charities. Heck, if I thought their cause was just i might help such a worker myself. But giving them benefit eligibility after they strike (or increasing their benefits if they were already eligible) forces me to pay for their strike (as food stamps are funded by taxes). I do not think it right that I should be forced to pay so they can strike.
277 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 8:59:23pm |
re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist
Gatsby is, frankly, better when you're a grown-up. I didn't understand it very well when I read it in high school. I taught it a couple of years ago, and liked it much better.
I had to read Gatsby like five times in my school career, both in middle school and high school. I HATED that book. Haven't touched it since.
Maybe reading it again as an adult might make it more palatable. I don't know.
278 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:00:24pm |
re: #269 BishopX
They also have the right to starve if the their employer locks them out during a contract dispute. Not all strikes are union initiated.
To be fair it says "because of a labor dispute (other than a lockout) in the thing
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
If that use of "lockout" means what you're talking about then in that case the guys would be covered... what little blessings that is.
279 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:02:19pm |
re: #275 jamesfirecat
Dark in light of Walter's statement I apologize to you last comment in regards to how it could have been taken as violent.
It just infuriates me the way that you and I agree on so much and seem to respect each other's positions when we disagree on economics in general... but your union policy I just can't wrap my head around...
I think we were raised by two very different families in this case Dark, just please for future reference keep in that my mom, my dad, and my brother ALL belong to public sector unions (one as a school IT specialist and two working for the FDA) as you choose how to phrase your comments about them...
Your apology is accepted. And please do understand that I am not being hostile to worker's rights here, I'm just saying that those rights do not extend to forcing me to subsidize their exercise of said rights.
280 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:02:26pm |
re: #276 Dark_Falcon
If the employer can accept having their business shut down. And the workers can use their savings or they can go to private charities. Heck, if I thought their cause was just i might help such a worker myself. But giving them benefit eligibility after they strike (or increasing their benefits if they were already eligible) forces me to pay for their strike (as food stamps are funded by taxes). I do not think it right that I should be forced to pay so they can strike.
And I don't think I should have to pay for oil subsidies.
The government is full of things that we don't support that we're forced to pay for and that's never going to change.
Food stamps keep money circulating through the economy.
281 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:03:42pm |
re: #276 Dark_Falcon
We're forced to pay for a lot of things we don't like, such as bloated and obsolete weapons systems that the Joint Chiefs don't want and which the congress critters love because it makes their lobbyist contributors happy, corporate welfare, and oil subsidies.
What's the difference here? I don't see one.
282 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:03:44pm |
re: #278 jamesfirecat
To be fair it says "because of a labor dispute (other than a lockout) in the thing
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
If that use of "lockout" means what you're talking about then in that case the guys would be covered... what little blessings that is.
That's logical, because a lockout is different. If someone is unwillingly out of work and its not their fault, then they should be eligible for benefits.
284 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:05:10pm |
re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist
Gatsby is, frankly, better when you're a grown-up. I didn't understand it very well when I read it in high school. I taught it a couple of years ago, and liked it much better.
I'll read it one of these days. Recently on facebook, I filled out a BBC survey of classic novels and I was really low. One of my friends even schooled me on my lack of reading literature. And it really is something I want to read more of especially since I've become an English minor over the past year.
285 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:07:48pm |
re: #281 Lidane
We're forced to pay for a lot of things we don't like, such as bloated and obsolete weapons systems that the Joint Chiefs don't want and which the congress critters love because it makes their lobbyist contributors happy, corporate welfare, and oil subsidies.
What's the difference here? I don't see one.
I respectfully argue that your post is a Tu Quoque logical fallacy. You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
286 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:09:47pm |
re: #285 Dark_Falcon
I respectfully argue that your post is a Tu Quoque logical fallacy. You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
I'm just not seeing the difference between food stamps for striking workers that want better conditions, and other things that we may not like but pay for anyway.
Why should workers be punished for striking and having their employers dig in their heels? That's not right.
287 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:13:06pm |
re: #285 Dark_Falcon
I respectfully argue that your post is a Tu Quoque logical fallacy. You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
The issue Dark is that this is a Tu Quoque out of which we can not make the logical argument of "well neither should exist"
Because if we do then we're arguing for a kind of libertarain Fantasy Land where you only have to pay taxes on the government programs you agree with.
Given the way food stamps have been shown to effectively stimulate the economy this is no time to be cutting them.
288 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:14:14pm |
The other big question I have is what "participation" means in this context. I can see an argument being made for not giving food stamps to people actively involved in the strike...organizing, picketing, etc. But what about not crossing a picket line? If a plant gets shut down by a strike are all workers ineligible? Only the ones in the union? Only the ones actively involved in the strike?
289 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:14:24pm |
re: #286 Lidane
I'm just not seeing the difference between food stamps for striking workers that want better conditions, and other things that we may not like but pay for anyway.
Why should workers be punished for striking and having their employers dig in their heels? That's not right.
They are not being punished. They are simply not be subsidized for striking. Also, I might ask you as a hypothetical about a case where the union is the side that is being unreasonable and digging in its heels. In such a case, would it not be true that to grant the workers benefits for striking is to make it easier for them to strike in order to force concessions that are unjustified? It's not always "Management is bad, Union is good" any more than it is "union is socialist and bad", management is capitalism and good".
290 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:18:26pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
I'm generally on the side that says starving people into submission isn't a good thing. And starving people's children to force capitulation is an evil act. But that's just me.
291 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:20:05pm |
re: #290 BishopX
I'm generally on the side that says starving people into submission isn't a good thing. And starving people's children to force capitulation is an evil act. But that's just me.
I wasn't talking about that at all. What brought that on?!
292 | HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:21:37pm |
re: #290 BishopX
I'm generally on the side that says starving people into submission isn't a good thing. And starving people's children to force capitulation is an evil act. But that's just me.
I was thinking of the kids too here.
293 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:24:17pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
They are not being punished. They are simply not be subsidized for striking. Also, I might ask you as a hypothetical about a case where the union is the side that is being unreasonable and digging in its heels. In such a case, would it not be true that to grant the workers benefits for striking is to make it easier for them to strike in order to force concessions that are unjustified? It's not always "Management is bad, Union is good" any more than it is "union is socialist and bad", management is capitalism and good".
Dark its too late at night for me to argue with you as well as I want to over this but let me just say this...
"They are not being punished. They are simply not be subsidized for striking."
If you're used to getting a $500 dollar check for the government and suddenly you stop getting it because of some work related activity you're taking part in, I don't think you would enjoy being told that you're "not being punished"
For how long have striking workers been able to get food stamps, why are we only changing it now.
In fact why are we changing it NOW when food stamps have been shown to be one of the most effective ways to stimulate the economy and we need all the help we can get on that front?
Also Dark to argue that the fact that they've got food stamps to rely on will make it easier for Union workers to drag out a strike... you're starting to drift in "young bucks buying t-bone steaks” territory. Okay minus the dog whistle racism element obviously, but I still think you're over estimating how much we're giving these people.
Can you tell me how much a person with no income would be getting in food stamps Dark?
294 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:25:35pm |
re: #291 Dark_Falcon
Your 289. Food stamps are intended to insure that NO Americans starve. None. Setting conditions on a families ability to get food on the basis of one family members willingness to capitulate to management means threatening to starve the ones who don't capitulate.
While I agree with you that unreasonable demands on either side are a bad thing, I'd rather have an over aggressive union and no hungry kids instead of a "just right" union and hungry kids.
295 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:27:31pm |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
They are not being punished. They are simply not be subsidized for striking.
Which is effectively a punishment. Don't you see the chilling effect of passing a law like this? Workers -- particularly the low income, blue collar ones -- will be less likely to strike at all, since they're the ones most in danger of having to go on food stamps if a strike goes on long enough. Their right to strike at all would be all but revoked because of the law punishing them for doing so.
It's not always "Management is bad, Union is good" any more than it is "union is socialist and bad", management is capitalism and good".
I know that, especially since I'm in the process of getting an MBA. However, I have had shitty, low wage jobs with unreasonable bosses who would easily let people starve instead of trying to fight for better conditions. I'm sympathetic because I've been there. I don't like the idea of management getting all of the cards, which is what a law like this does.
296 | jaunte Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:31:52pm |
re: #295 Lidane
Looking at the specifics of some recent strikes like that of the janitors in Houston,
you would have to sympathize with the workers. If their families were denied food stamps during negotiations, they might not have been able to get the slight improvements in the contract that they did.
Under the three-year deal, the first for the janitors since they unionized last year, their pay, which now averages $5.25 an hour, will increase to $6.25 on Jan. 1, 2007; to $7.25 on Jan. 1, 2008; and to $7.75 on Jan. 1, 2009.Further, the employers agreed to increase a janitor’s typical shift to six hours a day, from four. Many of the janitors had said they were being given too few hours of work to support their families.[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
297 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:32:21pm |
re: #293 jamesfirecat
Dark its too late at night for me to argue with you as well as I want to over this but let me just say this...
"They are not being punished. They are simply not be subsidized for striking."
If you're used to getting a $500 dollar check for the government and suddenly you stop getting it because of some work related activity you're taking part in, I don't think you would enjoy being told that you're "not being punished"For how long have striking workers been able to get food stamps, why are we only changing it now.
Answer to your bolded portion: The ThinkProgress article itself stated that someone receiving that check prior to striking would not lose it. What this provision simply means is that having gone out on strike, said worker cannot go to the government to get a larger check to replace the wages he is voluntarily forgoing by striking. It does not cut off existing benefits, it just does not subsidize strikes.
298 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:35:41pm |
re: #297 Dark_Falcon
What this provision simply means is that having gone out on strike, said worker cannot go to the government to get a larger check to replace the wages he is voluntarily forgoing by striking.
Which revokes the right to strike at all, especially if you're a low-income, blue collar worker who lives paycheck to paycheck and doesn't have much in the way of savings.
You're basically saying that they don't have a right to strike at all and they don't have a right to better conditions, because they might have to get food stamps to help pay the bills. How is that fair?
299 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:36:30pm |
re: #297 Dark_Falcon
Answer to your bolded portion: The ThinkProgress article itself stated that someone receiving that check prior to striking would not lose it. What this provision simply means is that having gone out on strike, said worker cannot go to the government to get a larger check to replace the wages he is voluntarily forgoing by striking. It does not cut off existing benefits, it just does not subsidize strikes.
Here is what it comes down to Dark.
What if that person was the only wage earner in the family?
What if so long as they're striking they're not making money or unemployment.
They've got no cash income.
Suppose they've got no or very little effective savings.
Suppose the guy has two kids and a wife.
Would you rather the kids and the wife starve/suffer from malnutrition than the striking guy be able to get food stamps now that he's not making any money?
300 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:40:57pm |
re: #299 jamesfirecat
Here is what it comes down to Dark.
What if that person was the only wage earner in the family?
What if so long as they're striking they're not making money or unemployment.
They've got no cash income.
Suppose they've got no or very little effective savings.
Suppose the guy has two kids and a wife.
Would you rather the kids and the wife starve/suffer from malnutrition than the striking guy be able to get food stamps now that he's not making any money?
Then he can find another job or break ranks with the union. Failing that, he can starve. His right to strike is not a right to my money.
301 | Lidane Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:41:11pm |
House Lawmakers Draft Legislation To Defund Libya Operations
Members of Congress are discussing several mechanisms to cut off funding for U.S. military operations in Libya, arguing that since President Barack Obama did not obtain congressional authorization, he is essentially waging an unconstitutional war.
302 | BishopX Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:41:23pm |
Alright, I'm heading to bed now. Have a good night.
303 | jamesfirecat Wed, Mar 23, 2011 9:42:26pm |
re: #300 Dark_Falcon
Then he can find another job or break ranks with the union. Failing that, he can starve. His right to strike is not a right to my money.
"Failing that, he can starve. His right to strike is not a right to my money."
This is where we differ Dark... I don't want any legal American citizen and their family to have to starve... ever.
306 | jamesfirecat Thu, Mar 24, 2011 4:38:25am |
re: #304 Dark_Falcon
Goodnight, all.
Dark now that I've had some time to sleep and clear my head, allow me to better explain myself and why I found your comments so objectionable.
Weather you realized it or not they seem to fall in line with a habit that I consider to be among one of the worst problems with the modern day GOP, and that is making "a rich mans game" out of things that should be open to everyone.
Can you get an abortion in South Dakota under the new law? Sure just so long as you've got the money to fly out of state or pay for a doctor to make TWO flights in!
Can you get gay married in Texas? Sure so long as you've got the money for a flight over to Vermont or somewhere else in the nation that can afford it!
Can you strike under the new law? Sure just so long as you've got enough money saved up that your family can last through an indefinite period during which you'll have no income and no government support!
As was said yesterday... once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, thrice is enemy action.
307 | ihateronpaul Thu, Mar 24, 2011 8:12:33am |
The funniest thing is how they are too embarrassed to change it
how the fuck could this have cost 50 million to implement
I bet a lot of that is advertising
whoever coded this is a fucking joke. We've had the technology to do this since uhm the 60s