This post is just an excuse to ask a simple question, as the right wing Birther delusion makes a resurgence thanks to Donald Trump’s dive off the deep end:
3 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:15:04pm |
i would say some are probably racist,and others utilizing political wish-thinking.
| 4 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:15:13pm |
I think that a lot of racists latch onto it because of the "Scary Black Man" aspect to Obama's presidency, but I think it started out mostly as an effort to discredit the man as not being a "Real American."
| 5 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:15:47pm |
Since it seems at the moment that Trump's own "birth certificate" is no more mind-blowingly authentic than the President's, it will be interesting if he gets the old-rich-white-guy free-pass à la Senator "Panama John" McCain.
Personally, I'm willing to take everyone at their word about being eligible to run for President.
| 6 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:17:04pm |
kinda reminds me of the good old witch hunts of the clinton days,the right seeks a magic,or silver bullet to bring down the president.
| 7 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:17:14pm |
Trump took a dive into an empty pool.
| 8 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:17:21pm |
| 9 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:17:34pm |
re: #4 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I think that a lot of racists latch onto it because of the "Scary Black Man" aspect to Obama's presidency, but I think it started out mostly as an effort to discredit the man as not being a "Real American."
That's about how I see it, as well.
| 10 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:18:25pm |
I think it stems from racism. I think it stems from a bizarre idea that Obama's loyalty is somehow to his 'black half'. This is like the 'anti-colonial' charge, which is also racist.
There probably are a lot of people for whom it's not racist, it's just standard liberal-bashing, but the origins of it are "He's not like us, he's really African."
I mean, why Kenya? There's no possible benefit or reason for him to have been born there. Sure, his dad was from there, but so what? Why on earth would they have wanted him to be born there? The only reason to believe that is to believe that his black, African father wanted him to be born there.
So, racist.
| 11 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:18:50pm |
I voted "leaning yes". By itself it might just be another stupid conspiracy but in the context of the Obama witch doctor imagery, Obama hates white culture, Seekrit Moooslim, Black Panthers/DoJ, Kenyan Anti-colonialist, etc.. leads me to to think that racism is probably an element.
| 12 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:19:26pm |
re: #8 Walter L. Newton
Was it racist for Obama to vote for McCain's eligibility being unquestionable? How would that be racist?
| 13 |
Girth Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:19:30pm |
He's a black man with a Muslim-sounding name.
This would have never been an issue if one or both of those weren't the case.
Absolutely racism.
| 14 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:20:04pm |
re: #5 Charleston Chew
Trivia-
Well Barry Goldwater had a big problem. Born in Arizona before it was a state... Just a territory. So maybe Barry Goldwater was unqualified by birth to be President. Arizona became a state in 1912.
| 15 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:21:13pm |
re: #14 Rightwingconspirator
wouldn't he have been grandfathered in?
| 16 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:22:32pm |
I voted leaning toward no just because I think the anti Muslim sentiment looms larger than anti African American sentiment among the haters. But I have a very hard time "getting" that mindset at all so my confidence interval in my own answer is very low.
| 17 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:22:37pm |
re: #12 Obdicut
Was it racist for Obama to vote for McCain's eligibility being unquestionable? How would that be racist?
Did I say anything was racist... show me where I said that? Or are you just making something up?
| 18 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:23:47pm |
re: #15 Boondock St. Bender
Where is the grandfather clause for this? To me it could have been a legitimate challenge. The Senate would have been his highest office.
| 19 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:24:28pm |
re: #10 Obdicut
I think it stems from racism. I think it stems from a bizarre idea that Obama's loyalty is somehow to his 'black half'. This is like the 'anti-colonial' charge, which is also racist.
There probably are a lot of people for whom it's not racist, it's just standard liberal-bashing, but the origins of it are "He's not like us, he's really African."
I mean, why Kenya? There's no possible benefit or reason for him to have been born there. Sure, his dad was from there, but so what? Why on earth would they have wanted him to be born there? The only reason to believe that is to believe that his black, African father wanted him to be born there.
So, racist.
How well is Woo-meister Dinesh D'Souza's book about Obama doing?
| 20 |
blueraven Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:25:06pm |
re: #8 Walter L. Newton
Is this racist...
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
No, it is not. Also it was only an article here or there, not a long term, ongoing movement.
| 21 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:25:57pm |
re: #20 blueraven
No, it is not. Also it was only an article here or there, not a long term, ongoing movement.
Good point.
| 22 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:27:16pm |
re: #18 Rightwingconspirator
well it was a U.S. territory when he was born.(as opposed to a sovereign foreign country)when it became a state,wouldn't citizenship then be transferred to U.S.(if it already wasn't recognized as that.)
| 23 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:27:21pm |
re: #14 Rightwingconspirator
Trivia-
Well Barry Goldwater had a big problem. Born in Arizona before it was a state... Just a territory. So maybe Barry Goldwater was unqualified by birth to be President. Arizona became a state in 1912.
We're Goldwater's parents US Citizens, because that would have settled the matter.
I'm more interested in democracy than the point on the globe at which someone was born. If a majority of people vote someone in, then they're okay with me.
| 24 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:28:05pm |
re: #17 Walter L. Newton
Did I say anything was racist... show me where I said that? Or are you just making something up?
ROTFLMAO!
| 25 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:29:40pm |
Blonde hair and blue eyes, there would be no questions about a birth certificate.
| 26 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:29:54pm |
re: #16 Rightwingconspirator
I voted leaning toward no just because I think the anti Muslim sentiment looms larger than anti African American sentiment among the haters. But I have a very hard time "getting" that mindset at all so my confidence interval in my own answer is very low.
One could argue that the suspicion that he's a "secret Muslim" is also inspired by his complexion.
| 28 |
Kronocide Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:30:35pm |
I voted 'leaning towards racist.' I think some chowderheads buy into it because it's a stupid conspiracy theory even if they don't have racist aversions. Yet a lot of birthers happen to be racist and its truly a natural extension of making the assumption since he's probably Kenyan and Muslim too.
| 29 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:30:59pm |
| 30 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:31:40pm |
Donald Trump is probably just trolling the country and having his way with the media, he's not a serious candidate and if the GOP weren't the impotent fools they are at the moment, they'd pretty much have nothing to worry about
| 31 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:31:58pm |
re: #8 Walter L. Newton
Is this racist...
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
No.
A few other details. McCain actually was born in Panama, raising the issue of whether 'natural born' means 'on US soil', which the Senate is apparently in agreement it does--correctly in my not-much-of-a-Constitutional-scholar's view. Since then, people have not obsessively insisted that McCain is lying about where he was actually born, or who his father is, claimed that he gave up his U.S. citizenship, demanded to see his birth certificate repeatedly, and generally acted out.
There was a question, good or bad, it was answered, and we moved on. Do you think that if McCain had taken the election we'd still be having this insane argument spawning conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, with elected Democrats too afraid to say it was silly?
| 32 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:32:20pm |
I think it has elements of racism, though I don't think it is the only element. There are elements of xenophobia and good old partisanship as well.
| 33 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:32:31pm |
At the very least it stems from xenophobia.
| 34 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:32:38pm |
re: #28 BigPapa
I voted 'leaning towards racist.' I think some chowderheads buy into it because it's a stupid conspiracy theory even if they don't have racist aversions. Yet a lot of birthers happen to be racist and its truly a natural extension of making the assumption since he's probably Kenyan and Muslim too.
That's my feeling too. That said, I found the poll incomplete. It should have had a sixth option:
6: Ron Paul
| 35 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:33:04pm |
re: #10 Obdicut
I think it stems from racism. I think it stems from a bizarre idea that Obama's loyalty is somehow to his 'black half'. This is like the 'anti-colonial' charge, which is also racist.
There probably are a lot of people for whom it's not racist, it's just standard liberal-bashing, but the origins of it are "He's not like us, he's really African."
I mean, why Kenya? There's no possible benefit or reason for him to have been born there. Sure, his dad was from there, but so what? Why on earth would they have wanted him to be born there? The only reason to believe that is to believe that his black, African father wanted him to be born there.
So, racist.
I think there are racial elements to it. I don't know if that makes it 'racist'.
| 36 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:33:18pm |
re: #34 Dark_Falcon
And a thousand spam bots to vote for Ron Paul!
| 37 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:33:30pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
I voted "leaning yes". By itself it might just be another stupid conspiracy but in the context of the Obama witch doctor imagery, Obama hates white culture, Seekrit Moooslim, Black Panthers/DoJ, Kenyan Anti-colonialist, etc.. leads me to to think that racism is probably an element.
Yeah. Like that.
And I voted 'leaning yes' as well. I don't think that's all of it, but I find it hard to believe that's none of it.
| 38 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:34:10pm |
re: #33 jamesfirecat
At the very least it stems from xenophobia.
OTHERISM
I cannot imagine being subjected to this, as a normal person.
Wonder if he imagined that it would take hold so hard.
(keep Malia and Sasha off the computer)
| 39 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:34:22pm |
re: #28 BigPapa
I voted 'leaning towards racist.' I think some chowderheads buy into it because it's a stupid conspiracy theory even if they don't have racist aversions. Yet a lot of birthers happen to be racist and its truly a natural extension of making the assumption since he's probably Kenyan and Muslim too.
I think it is racist, but some people are ignorant as to the racism. Birtherism IS racism. but that doesn't mean someone really dumb and gullible can be A) not racist and B) believe it because a stronger personality told it to them and they obeisantly nodded. Still racist! The dumbasses are just ignorant of it if they're not racist themselves.
| 40 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:35:06pm |
re: #15 Boondock St. Bender
wouldn't he have been grandfathered in?
I believe that was the consensus.
| 41 |
Girth Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:35:51pm |
The McCain eligibility question is also not analogous. Obama was born in the US, the birthers just don't believe him. McCain was in fact born outside the US. I think that challenge would be wrong, but at least I can see the argument.
| 42 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:36:01pm |
re: #22 Boondock St. Bender
Sure he was unarguably a citizen but not born in a "state". Hey I do hope a court would have ruled him good to run, but if one takes a strict look at the statute, well it says United States. Silent on territory. They passed a law to cover panama, I found nothing like that about territories or Guam if anyone from there ever runs. . Maybe a territory counts as a possession of the US and that would do it.
What if someone from American Samoa, Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, the U.S. Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico runs? Might be interesting in a legal sense.
| 43 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:36:09pm |
re: #33 jamesfirecat
At the very least it stems from xenophobia.
I consider xenophobia towards a black president to be full on Klan white sheet racism. HE"S THE PRESIDENT. Anyone who thinks he's "Unamerican" is really just not adequate in the critical thinking department. Dumb nodding pavlov's dogs.
| 44 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:36:25pm |
re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist
No.
A few other details. McCain actually was born in Panama, raising the issue of whether 'natural born' means 'on US soil', which the Senate is apparently in agreement it does--correctly in my not-much-of-a-Constitutional-scholar's view. Since then, people have not obsessively insisted that McCain is lying about where he was actually born, or who his father is, claimed that he gave up his U.S. citizenship, demanded to see his birth certificate repeatedly, and generally acted out.
There was a question, good or bad, it was answered, and we moved on. Do you think that if McCain had taken the election we'd still be having this insane argument spawning conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory, with elected Democrats too afraid to say it was silly?
Good point.
| 45 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:36:34pm |
re: #41 Girth
The McCain eligibility question is also not analogous. Obama was born in the US, the birthers just don't believe him. McCain was in fact born outside the US. I think that challenge would be wrong, but at least I can see the argument.
It was that weird fairy thing making an appearance.
| 46 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:36:44pm |
re: #18 Rightwingconspirator
Where is the grandfather clause for this? To me it could have been a legitimate challenge. The Senate would have been his highest office.
He certainly wasn't born a citizen of any other nation, and the territory didn't belong to any other nation when he was born there. Both parents were U.S. citizens, as well, which is the kicker. I would say he was absolutely a natural-born citizen.
| 47 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:37:11pm |
re: #39 WindUpBird
I think it is racist, but some people are ignorant as to the racism. Birtherism IS racism. but that doesn't mean someone really dumb and gullible can be A) not racist and B) believe it because a stronger personality told it to them and they obeisantly nodded. Still racist! The dumbasses are just ignorant of it if they're not racist themselves.
Context matters, even when you are ignorant of the context.
| 48 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:37:40pm |
re: #42 Rightwingconspirator
actually that would be an interesting question.Lawmakers/courts would have some work to do.
| 49 |
abbyadams Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:38:07pm |
I vote "Otherism" too. If he would have been a WASP, no one would have ever asked for his birth certificate in the first place, even Hillary Clinton. It's the brown skin/lived in Indonesia and therefore Muslim thing. Race is definitely a part, but I don't think an African American born and bred in Georgia would have had the same issue.
| 50 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:38:08pm |
re: #33 jamesfirecat
At the very least it stems from xenophobia.
To me, there's nothing about the President that seems at all foreign. As a Midwesterner myself, his demeanor seems very familiar. For xenophobia to be the root, one would first have to see him as foreign, and IMO, to do that one has to imagine an "American" the way people did in the old days when they'd advertise homes as being in an "all-American" neighborhood, meaning white.
| 51 |
Kronocide Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:38:17pm |
re: #39 WindUpBird
I think it is racist, but some people are ignorant as to the racism. Birtherism IS racism.
I would agree that the strongest element driving birtherism is racism, followed by dunderheadism. Those in the minority not dealing with racist or other-ist mindset are morons who believe in the most inane conspiracy theories.
| 52 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:38:48pm |
I went with "leaning towards', just because there are too many other elements. I think the driving force was desperate denial: "This can't be real...something's wrong..save us".
| 53 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:38:49pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
I voted "leaning yes". By itself it might just be another stupid conspiracy but in the context of the Obama witch doctor imagery, Obama hates white culture, Seekrit Moooslim, Black Panthers/DoJ, Kenyan Anti-colonialist, etc.. leads me to to think that racism is probably an element.
Well, depends what we're discussing
Are we discussing the WND types who keep birtherism healthy and fed? With funding and websites and think tanks, and winks from the GOP? THAT'S racism. And that's the engine of it, is people who know full well exactly what they're doing, what they're saying, the emotionally vulnerable and gullible nature of who they're saying it to, and so forth.
The foot soldiers , the dullards, the grasroots may not be racist, because it doesn't matter if they are. They believe the birtherism, they're stupid, they do what they're told.
| 54 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:39:34pm |
re: #34 Dark_Falcon
That's my feeling too. That said, I found the poll incomplete. It should have had a sixth option:
6: Ron Paul
As you're fond of saying, DF,
SMACK!
;)
| 55 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:39:43pm |
re: #49 abbyadams
I vote "Otherism" too. If he would have been a WASP, no one would have ever asked for his birth certificate in the first place, even Hillary Clinton. It's the brown skin/lived in Indonesia and therefore Muslim thing. Race is definitely a part, but I don't think an African American born and bred in Georgia would have had the same issue.
We know the truth, that there are people in this country, millions of them, that believe that Americans are white and christian and only thus can be a leader
| 56 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:39:58pm |
re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist
I agree. If I were an opposition lawyer I might have to test the waters. All of this is interesting but I must admit way beside the point at hand-President, um, our President Obama. I say "our" in appeal to the loyalty the elected man or (someday) woman deserves.
| 57 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:40:04pm |
When States are admitted to the Union they must accept the US Constitution as the rule of law. Citizens of a territory become citizens of USA when territory becomes a State.
| 58 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:41:10pm |
Yes, absolutely. The only reason we're even talking about this anymore is because of President Obama's race.
If his name had been Barry O'Sullivan and he'd been a white guy with an American mother and an Irish father, this would have died back in 2008.
| 59 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:41:24pm |
| 60 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:42:21pm |
re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist
He certainly wasn't born a citizen of any other nation, and the territory didn't belong to any other nation when he was born there. Both parents were U.S. citizens, as well, which is the kicker. I would say he was absolutely a natural-born citizen.
That's right. At the time, the US had jurisdiction over the Panama Canal Zone, too. So it's pretty clear in McCain's case. I think the McCain thing was just an appearance of the Magical Balance Fairy.
| 61 |
Big Joe Ghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:42:23pm |
re: #6 Boondock St. Bender
kinda reminds me of the good old witch hunts of the clinton days,the right seeks a magic,or silver bullet to bring down the president.
I agree. This is just one of many "issues" the conservative propaganda machine will use to discredit Obama, in the same way they tried everything they could find to use against Clinton. If an outrage has any "traction" they will use it like a hammer to bludgeon the character of the President, if not it will just be a flash of outrage-du-jour, to be replaced tomorrow with an all new outrage.
| 62 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:42:23pm |
re: #52 Decatur Deb
I went with "leaning towards', just because there are too many other elements. I think the driving force was desperate denial: "This can't be real...something's wrong..save us".
Yeah, Birtherism was dreamt up by those who wanted to look a reason, any reason, to believe that Obama's presidency was illegitimate. When they're not demanding his "real" birth certificate, they're demanding his college records under the belief that he "renounced" his American citizenship while in Indonesia and thus is not a citizen for the purposes of being president.
That racists have found the theory so appealing and are perpetuating it doesn't make it inherently racist, it just means it fits their world view that a black man simply can't be president.
| 63 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:42:49pm |
A lot of this is traceable to party affiliation,much like newt's infidelity was no big deal.and clintons was unforgivable
| 64 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:43:16pm |
re: #58 Lidane
Yes, absolutely. The only reason we're even talking about this anymore is because of President Obama's race.
If his name had been Barry O'Sullivan and he'd been a white guy with an American mother and an Irish father, this would have died back in 2008.
and his race is the thing all these guys hook onto. because it's an atavistic hatred of the other that already exists in them, and the birthers are just tapping into it, broadcasting it on the radio. broadcasting it on TV. narrowcasting it onto the web. Finding the people on youtube. Compiling mailing lists. Human nature. Burn the witch, get rid of the guy running things who's a scheming foreigner :P
| 65 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:43:17pm |
| 66 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:43:30pm |
re: #63 Boondock St. Bender
A lot of this is traceable to party affiliation,much like newt's infidelity was no big deal.and clintons was unforgivable
hahha totally
| 67 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:44:20pm |
re: #63 Boondock St. Bender
A lot of this is traceable to party affiliation,much like newt's infidelity was no big deal.and clintons was unforgivable
Amazing eh? Gah, I hope the thinkers outweigh the imbeciles.
| 69 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:44:45pm |
re: #61 mracb
I agree. This is just one of many "issues" the conservative propaganda machine will use to discredit Obama, in the same way they tried everything they could find to use against Clinton. If an outrage has any "traction" they will use it like a hammer to bludgeon the character of the President, if not it will just be a flash of outrage-du-jour, to be replaced tomorrow with an all new outrage.
it's just so satisfying that I never have to worry about considering the GOP for national office
I just don't want to be represented by deeply stupid people, is all :D if America wishes to elect deeply stupid people, hey great, I'll make fun for four years
| 70 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:44:55pm |
re: #67 Stanley Sea
I am doubtful, but, it may change by November.
| 71 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:45:06pm |
Hmmmm...
Obama... You Should Have Listened to Farrakhan When You Were At His Table: New Black Panthers (NSFW)
| 72 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:45:11pm |
re: #67 Stanley Sea
from your keyboard to gods ears!
| 75 |
Big Joe Ghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:45:49pm |
re: #61 mracb
and I ment to add...
I think there are those that are racist that latch on to this and other isssues with his name. Most just hate Presidents with a (D) THAT much.
| 76 |
zora Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:45:50pm |
re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist
i think birtherism is absolutely racist. are all of the people questioning obama's birth racists? i'm sure they are not. just herpes encrusted assholes. (too strong?)
| 77 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:46:16pm |
re: #69 WindUpBird
it's just so satisfying that I never have to worry about considering the GOP for national office
I just don't want to be represented by deeply stupid people, is all :D if America wishes to elect deeply stupid people, hey great, I'll make fun for four years
who's not stupid that's being floated for national office? Pawlenty? pawlenty will be destroyed because he's not crazy enough. So will Mitch Daniels. Romney is a Mormon, he can't beat the GOP protestant baptist machine. And all that's left is stupid people.
| 78 |
HappyWarrior Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:46:27pm |
If not racist, it certainly plays to racism and at the least xenophobia. Listen to Obama's critics, it's that "he's different."
| 79 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:46:47pm |
re: #68 engineer dog
cause and effect perhaps?
without the hucksters,we wouldn't know about the suckers...
| 80 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:49:36pm |
Here is a website that has the US Constitution and related documents.
[Link: www.usconstitution.net...]
| 81 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:49:49pm |
The cause...mysterious.
The effect...stupidity.
| 82 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:50:19pm |
re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist
Hi there. How you doing? Has a cooler head prevailed since last our emails cross wires?
I've calmed. Have a cat on my left arm, a slowly burning natural product to my right, and a glass of sangiovese nearby for moisture.
I'm thinking of a sort of thesis, if you will, regarding the next wave of emails I'm going to start sending out to that list. I'll share later.
| 84 |
avanti Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:50:38pm |
I think the Donald screwed up by releasing a less official "birth certificate than Obama has. The story has some legs:
| 85 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:51:02pm |
I think it's 100% racist. Oooga Booga!
| 86 |
Kilroy Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:52:02pm |
Why did O agree to have the oath of office re-administered; seems trivial but he obviously thought it critical.
| 87 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:52:41pm |
re: #84 avanti
I think "The Donald" is a bundle of laughs. Couldn't be funnier if he tried. And he has no idea that he's a total joke.
| 88 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:53:10pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
WASHINGTON – President Obama was re-administered the oath of office on Wednesday evening by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., one day after the two men stumbled over each other’s words during the inauguration.
The president and the chief justice stood in the Map Room of the White House at 7:35 p.m. as they took a second run at the constitutional oath. A handful of advisers watched the proceeding, which lasted about 25 seconds.
“Are you ready to take the oath?” Mr. Roberts said.
“I am,” Mr. Obama replied. “And we’re going to do it very slowly.”
Gregory Craig, the White House counsel, said he believes the oath was “administered effectively and that the president was sworn in appropriately.” But out of caution and to ward off any speculation that he wasn’t properly sworn in, aides decided on Wednesday afternoon to give the oath another try.
“The oath appears in the Constitution itself,” Mr. Craig said in a statement. “And out of an abundance of caution, because there was one word out of sequence, Chief Justice Roberts administered the oath a second time.”[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]
| 89 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:54:24pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
Why did O agree to have the oath of office re-administered; seems trivial but he obviously thought it critical.
wha??
| 90 |
PhillyPretzel Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:55:05pm |
re: #88 jaunte
Another piece of trivia. Governor Jesse Ventura was sworn in twice under different names.
| 91 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:55:20pm |
re: #84 avanti
Trump's mother, it should be noted, was born in Scotland, which is not part of the United States. His plane is registered in the Bahamas, also a foreign country. This fact pattern -- along with the wave of new questions surrounding what he claims is a birth certificate -- raises serious doubts about his eligibility to serve as President of the United States.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, WHERE"S THE NURF SERTIFIKIT DAWNALD?!!11!
| 92 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:55:26pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
caution....actually i like his heading off of possible stupidity.
| 93 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:56:03pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
Why did O agree to have the oath of office re-administered; seems trivial but he obviously thought it critical.
Do you have no fucking idea what people of color have to do, the extra fucking step, the extra everything to be on equal footing?
| 94 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:56:09pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
The problem there was that both he and Chief Justice Roberts goofed:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
To settle the question, they did it again. All in all, not that big a deal.
| 95 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:56:13pm |
re: #89 Stanley Sea
| 96 |
avanti Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:56:23pm |
re: #87 Floral Giraffe
I think "The Donald" is a bundle of laughs. Couldn't be funnier if he tried. And he has no idea that he's a total joke.
"Trump's mother, it should be noted, was born in Scotland, which is not part of the United States. His plane is registered in the Bahamas, also a foreign country. This fact pattern -- along with the wave of new questions surrounding what he claims is a birth certificate -- raises serious doubts about his eligibility to serve as President of the United States."
Now that's funny.
| 97 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:56:49pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
Why did O agree to have the oath of office re-administered; seems trivial but he obviously thought it critical.
Gregory Craig, the White House counsel, said he believes the oath was “administered effectively and that the president was sworn in appropriately.” But out of caution and to ward off any speculation that he wasn’t properly sworn in, aides decided on Wednesday afternoon to give the oath another try.
[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]
BOO!
| 98 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:57:17pm |
re: #96 avanti
I guess he doesn't want to pay US property taxes on that plane.
| 99 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:57:22pm |
Don't miss the big picture here - Trump is about one thing - making himself the richest and best known person on the planet. He's friends with Vince McMahon and Trump is not above doing a "work" for no other purposes than getting free air time.
Where birtherism is most racist is when it's played in the small Tea Party crowds for the purpose of re-enforcing that Obama is not one of "us".
WND is somewhere in between - they wish they could make as much money off of this as Trump (but they can't), and racism of the backward crowd to whom they market their books is simply a mean$ to rich end$.
| 100 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 6:57:26pm |
| 101 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:00:40pm |
re: #96 avanti
His hair alone, is a crime!
| 102 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:01:00pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
Mother of Libyan woman who alleged rape says daughter still in custody
I am so following this story. 2011's Neda.
and ot tweet
RamyYaacoub Ramy Yaacoub
by Sandmonkey
Dear Obama, Bravo! #Libya
| 103 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:01:27pm |
| 104 |
zora Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:01:47pm |
re: #99 freetoken
Don't miss the big picture here - Trump is about one thing - making himself the richest and best known person on the planet. He's friends with Vince McMahon and Trump is not above doing a "work" for no other purposes than getting free air time.
Where birtherism is most racist is when it's played in the small Tea Party crowds for the purpose of re-enforcing that Obama is not one of "us".
WND is somewhere in between - they wish they could make as much money off of this as Trump (but they can't), and racism of the backward crowd to whom they market their books is simply a mean$ to rich end$.
the repulican primary may shape up to be wwf / wwe style. smack talk and showboating. there are only a couple of serious, credible choices in the bunch.
| 105 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:02:28pm |
re: #102 Stanley Sea
Yeah, the twitter responses from people in the region seem positive from what I've seen.
| 106 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:03:49pm |
Google link to
"how many times has Donald Trump filed for bankruptcy?"
[Link: www.mademan.com...]
| 107 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:04:33pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
Mother of Libyan woman who alleged rape says daughter still in custody
Hopefully she can stay alive. It'll take the rebels a good while to get to Tripoli.
| 108 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:05:27pm |
re: #106 Floral Giraffe
Google link to
"how many times has Donald Trump filed for bankruptcy?"
[Link: www.mademan.com...]
Answer: Enough times that Ron Paul thinks Trump should be in Debtor's Prison.
| 109 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:07:18pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
Bless that poor woman and her family. I hope they can remain strong in the face of this adversity.
| 110 |
ProGunLiberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:07:32pm |
re: #107 Dark_Falcon
Let's sell them some of these babies. They should be helpful.
| 111 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:07:44pm |
re: #106 Floral Giraffe
El Dorado streets of gold.....
| 112 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:07:46pm |
Donald fucking Trump.
How far have we gone GOP?
The power players must be shitting right now.
| 113 |
avanti Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:07:55pm |
Wait, Trump is a political genus /
"Notice how Trump is tossing out the hook setting this up to hook the liberals and reel them in? LOL First he throws out the hook to bait the leberals by putting out a short form BC, then sure enough, here comes the liberals sworming in around the baited hook (short form BC) crying, where is the doctor's signature? Where is the long form? Blah blah blah! The libs are crying the same foul the birthers have been crying and now that the libs have swallowed the bait hook line and sinker, Trump will release his long form BC. Now what? LOL Oops! LOL"
| 114 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:08:35pm |
re: #108 Dark_Falcon
Maybe this makes it worse but I think all 3 times was his company. I don't think he ever filed personal bankruptcy.
| 115 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:08:44pm |
re: #112 Stanley Sea
They are laughing all the way to the bank.
They will be crying in November, I sincerely hope.
| 116 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:09:04pm |
re: #113 avanti
Wait, Trump is a political genus /
"Notice how Trump is tossing out the hook setting this up to hook the liberals and reel them in? LOL First he throws out the hook to bait the leberals by putting out a short form BC, then sure enough, here comes the liberals sworming in around the baited hook (short form BC) crying, where is the doctor's signature? Where is the long form? Blah blah blah! The libs are crying the same foul the birthers have been crying and now that the libs have swallowed the bait hook line and sinker, Trump will release his long form BC. Now what? LOL Oops! LOL"
Politico, eh?
| 117 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:09:17pm |
re: #114 Rightwingconspirator
It was all business, he, personally has a very good firewall.
| 118 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:09:21pm |
re: #101 Floral Giraffe
His hair alone, is a crime!
möbius hair violates the constitution since the president's haircut must exist in the same universe as the district of columbia and have both an inside and an outside
sec 32, paragraph xviii
| 119 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:11:33pm |
re: #110 ProLifeLiberal
Let's sell them some of these babies. They should be helpful.
Better to buy them Russian gear. That's what they're used to. Even though the low cost, easy to build, easy to maintain, effective in use M113 did win plaudits from the Red Army for adhering to their design ideals. (Not kidding: The really did see it as a good example of Soviet design philosophies in action.)
| 120 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:13:07pm |
re: #104 zora
the repulican primary may shape up to be wwf / wwe style. smack talk and showboating.
No kidding. They're turning out to be over-the-top stereotypical characters.
| 121 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:13:14pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
exept it didn't have a huge gas tank on the rear door.
| 122 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:13:52pm |
re: #121 Boondock St. Bender
exept it didn't have a huge gas tank on the rear door.
Hey, that's not a flaw! That's a feature!
/
| 123 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:14:15pm |
Oh, this is pitiful.
When speaking before the Senate Judiciary Committee about HB 167 (which would criminalize the death of an unborn child), Rep. Keith Regier, R-Kalispell, noted the value of a cow increases if the cow is pregnant.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
| 124 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:14:20pm |
re: #120 freetoken
looking forward to seeing bachman give palin a chair shot during her speach.
| 125 |
Boondock St. Bender Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:15:42pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
and the value of a jack-ass decreases the more it sticks its foot in its mouth
| 126 |
ProGunLiberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:15:59pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
I would imagine the M113 to be very accessible, cost and availability wise.
| 127 |
ProGunLiberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:16:34pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
I can't believe that I just saw that.
| 128 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:17:12pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
Oh, this is pitiful.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
So women are worthless until they are carrying a child? They are inching so close to just coming out and saying it.
| 129 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:17:43pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
Oh, this is pitiful.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
Not surprising. These people think of women as chattel and as nothing more than incubators anyway. Why not compare a pregnant woman to a cow whose value increases when they're pregnant? =P
| 130 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:17:50pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
In response, Regier sent an e-mail where he noted he made the same comments in testimony in the House Judiciary Committee and on the House floor.
“No one said anything about the illustration being offensive, so I was surprised when the complaint was raised. My intent is not of offend anyone,” he wrote. “Had anyone complained earlier, I would have changed my testimony.”
What a moron.
| 131 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:18:45pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
Oh, this is pitiful.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
LOL, those engorged boobs should bring top dollar at auction.
| 132 |
cat-tikvah Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:18:47pm |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
I voted "leaning yes". By itself it might just be another stupid conspiracy but in the context of the Obama witch doctor imagery, Obama hates white culture, Seekrit Moooslim, Black Panthers/DoJ, Kenyan Anti-colonialist, etc.. leads me to to think that racism is probably an element.
Every time I've heard the "birth certificate" issue discussed on talk shows, callers go through some/all of this laundry list of talking points as loudly, rapidly, and vehemently as they can.
I'm sure that not all these people are racist but racism has conveniently piggy-backed onto this and invigorates and drives it. Or our President's name isn't Barack HUSSEIN Obama.
This is so mind-numbingly stupid it defies stupidity.
| 133 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:19:02pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
Oh, this is pitiful.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
And the American Taliban continues its quest to drag us all back to the Dark Ages.
| 134 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:19:11pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
Better to buy them Russian gear. That's what they're used to. Even though the low cost, easy to build, easy to maintain, effective in use M113 did win plaudits from the Red Army for adhering to their design ideals. (Not kidding: The really did see it as a good example of Soviet design philosophies in action.)
Interesting thought. Can you point to a link about the Russians & the 113? I, personally, always hated the damn death traps. The aluminium armor was worse than useless and the lack of real fire power was a serious problem.
Of course only the US could go from bad to worse with the Bradley system. Finally realizing the problems there they go and buy the worst of the bunch in the Stryker.
I am _so_ glad I am not still on active duty.
| 135 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:19:13pm |
re: #49 abbyadams
I vote "Otherism" too. If he would have been a WASP, no one would have ever asked for his birth certificate in the first place, even Hillary Clinton. It's the brown skin/lived in Indonesia and therefore Muslim thing. Race is definitely a part, but I don't think an African American born and bred in Georgia would have had the same issue.
Yeah, that's the thing. I don't think Barack Owens of Atlanta would have faced this particular piece of crap.
But some stuff, I think, would have been the same--the 'radical' stuff, the 'how did he pay for his schooling' stuff.
| 136 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:20:05pm |
re: #134 wlewisiii
Interesting thought. Can you point to a link about the Russians & the 113? I, personally, always hated the damn death traps. The aluminium armor was worse than useless and the lack of real fire power was a serious problem.
Of course only the US could go from bad to worse with the Bradley system. Finally realizing the problems there they go and buy the worst of the bunch in the Stryker.
I am _so_ glad I am not still on active duty.
Well, when you buy from the lowest bidder, you get what you pay for.
| 137 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:20:27pm |
re: #50 Charleston Chew
To me, there's nothing about the President that seems at all foreign. As a Midwesterner myself, his demeanor seems very familiar. For xenophobia to be the root, one would first have to see him as foreign, and IMO, to do that one has to imagine an "American" the way people did in the old days when they'd advertise homes as being in an "all-American" neighborhood, meaning white.
He does seem very Middle American to me. But remember, Clinton was supposed to be this big out-of-touch elitist too, and Clinton was a good ol' boy from freaking Arkansas.
| 138 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:20:52pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
Oh, this is pitiful.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
Assemblyman Regier: Foot, meet mouth.
Dark_Falcon: Face, meet palm.
| 139 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:20:55pm |
OT:
The way my day is going.
I just finished installing WinXP for the third time**, activated it, installed drivers and essential apps, only to notice the boot drive was installed as 'H:', instead of 'C:' while a &$%#@ USB reader was 'C:'.
I can't leave it that way because it will confuse my customer. Install #4 coming up.
Aaarrghh.
**The original drive died and the drive I pulled from my used parts bin was flaky.
| 140 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:21:58pm |
Next on the agenda: Marriages have to be planned roughly 18 years ahead of time.
| 141 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:22:22pm |
re: #131 Jeff In Ohio
LOL, those engorged boobs should bring top dollar at auction.
Check the teeth. You can always tell by the teeth.
| 142 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:22:45pm |
re: #140 prononymous
How many cows you gonna need for that daughter?
| 143 |
Petero1818 Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:22:48pm |
I suspect many Birthers are racists and many racists are Birthers. I do not believe it is a prerequisite by any stretch and I am fairly sure that many who are Birthers are Birthers for political reasons rather than racist ones. To be honest I think it is far easier to say that Birtherism is borne out of idiocy and desperation than it is to say it is borne out of racism.
| 144 |
prairiefire Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:23:04pm |
re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist
He does seem very Middle American to me. But remember, Clinton was supposed to be this big out-of-touch elitist too, and Clinton was a good ol' boy from freaking Arkansas.
I think his Kansas grandma and my Kansas grandma would understand each other very well.
| 145 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:23:29pm |
re: #134 wlewisiii
Interesting thought. Can you point to a link about the Russians & the 113? I, personally, always hated the damn death traps. The aluminium armor was worse than useless and the lack of real fire power was a serious problem.
Of course only the US could go from bad to worse with the Bradley system. Finally realizing the problems there they go and buy the worst of the bunch in the Stryker.
I am _so_ glad I am not still on active duty.
I'll look when I get a chance. But it was a 'Soviet' vehicle in many ways: Designed to be cheap and easy to maintain, its comparatively easy to use and effective if used correctly. In fact, it is still in production today.
| 146 |
ProGunLiberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:24:37pm |
re: #134 wlewisiii
It looks like, looking at the Stryker, that the French VBCI or the Finnish Patria AMV may be better. And knowing US procurement methods, cheaper.
| 147 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:24:43pm |
re: #140 prononymous
Next on the agenda: Marriages have to be planned roughly 18 years ahead of time.
Hey now, there's a lot of good in arraigned marriages! Negotiating your daughter's future away in return for social or material wealth is far better than letting her go off and get pregnant by some random kid off the street! What kind of father wouldn't look out for his daughter's future?
///
| 148 |
ProGunLiberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:25:16pm |
re: #145 Dark_Falcon
Hence, we can get some to the rebels quickly, and replace them quickly too.
| 149 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:26:48pm |
re: #143 Petero1818
I suspect many Birthers are racists and many racists are Birthers. I do not believe it is a prerequisite by any stretch and I am fairly sure that many who are Birthers are Birthers for political reasons rather than racist ones. To be honest I think it is far easier to say that Birtherism is borne out of idiocy and desperation than it is to say it is borne out of racism.
I think the racism leaks from some of the more slimy birthers and it gets on them all. Sort of like how bacteria and viruses spread.
| 150 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:27:13pm |
Associated Press catching on to the game.
WASHINGTON – The Republicans looking to succeed President Barack Obama all say he's bungling Libya.
What most haven't spelled out: how they would address the latest international crisis if they were in the White House.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 151 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:27:35pm |
And now, for the humor interlude so desperately needed
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
Gonna listen to some Jazz tonight. You know I love some great flute work. Do they provide it or is it bring your own basket? #snakeonthetown
| 152 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:28:04pm |
re: #142 jaunte
How many cows you gonna need for that daughter?
Hey, you can't treat animal life as equal to human life!
I'll take two of your daughters.
| 153 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:29:37pm |
re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist
He does seem very Middle American to me.
there's a dynamic at work here where the actual person is covered up by a carefully constructed and vigorously promoted caricature. we are given "explanations" of the president's marxist philosophy and anti-american mindset, made if course out of wholecloth but promoted soberly as an 'obviously' factual account
this can backfire though - remember when all editorial cartoons depicted clinton with a huge pot belly and large, round reddened nose? these cartoons didn't hold up when the charismatic clinton appeared on teevee
in obama's case, though, the factitious internal black muslim communist kenyan mindset and motivations are harder to dispell...
| 154 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:29:39pm |
Was much made during his campaign of Goldwater's father being Jewish?
| 155 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:30:03pm |
re: #150 jaunte
Associated Press catching on to the game.
It's noteworthy that John McCain alone among top Republicans has remained broadly supportive of the Libyan Intervention. But I think that's because he will not turn on a fight that the Navy is waging, as a result of his desire to ensure the military is not left in the lurch.
| 156 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:30:06pm |
re: #152 prononymous
Hey, you can't treat animal life as equal to human life!
I'll take two of your daughters.
I'll need 4 pregnant cows for them.
| 157 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:30:20pm |
re: #143 Petero1818
I am fairly sure that many who are Birthers are Birthers for political reasons rather than racist ones.
The only political reasons to be a Birther ARE racist. You have to literally suspend all disbelief and think that a United States Senator was able to fool the Secret Service, FBI, NSA, and CIA when he went through his security clearance checks. You have to believe that a man with an American mother isn't an American. You have to believe that somehow, Barack Obama went back in time and forged a birth announcement in the newspaper and that the State of Hawaii is complicit in the plot.
It's naked racism and xenophobia. There are no other reasons to be a Birther. Period.
| 158 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:30:49pm |
re: #60 Dark_Falcon
That's right. At the time, the US had jurisdiction over the Panama Canal Zone, too. So it's pretty clear in McCain's case. I think the McCain thing was just an appearance of the Magical Balance Fairy.
I mean Goldwater, but I think McCain's case is also pretty clear-cut. A person born a citizen is a natural-born citizen.
| 159 |
Ben G. Hazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:31:39pm |
re: #139 b_sharp
OT:
The way my day is going.I just finished installing WinXP for the third time**, activated it, installed drivers and essential apps, only to notice the boot drive was installed as 'H:', instead of 'C:' while a &$%#@ USB reader was 'C:'.
I can't leave it that way because it will confuse my customer. Install #4 coming up.
Aaarrghh.
**The original drive died and the drive I pulled from my used parts bin was flaky.
Unplug every drive from the system (even card readers) except the hard drive you're installing Windows to, the CD/DVD drive, and the floppy drive (if applicable). Should solve that problem, as it has for me in the past...
| 160 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:31:42pm |
re: #71 Walter L. Newton
Hmmm...
Obama... You Should Have Listened to Farrakhan When You Were At His Table: New Black Panthers (NSFW)
[Video]
But really, aren't we all glad he didn't?
| 161 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:31:58pm |
re: #150 jaunte
Associated Press catching on to the game.
Yeah, the Right's suddenly decided that getting into Libya wasn't such a great idea and are trying to act like they weren't advocating it from the beginning.
| 162 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:32:24pm |
re: #156 b_sharp
I'll need 4 pregnant cows for them.
Whoa there now! Getting a little greedy there? Your daughters aren't pregnant after all.
| 163 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:32:37pm |
re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist
Was much made during his campaign of Goldwater's father being Jewish?
not that i recall, altho i was only ten at the time...
i do remember being disappointed to find out that after all that talk of how the dangerously warlike goldwater would 'bomb hanoi' if elected, lbj went right ahead and bombed hanoi himself after the election
| 164 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:34:28pm |
re: #76 zora
i think birtherism is absolutely racist. are all of the people questioning obama's birth racists? i'm sure they are not. just herpes encrusted assholes. (too strong?)
Not too strong, and I may be splitting too fine a hair here. I do remember the folks who were practically in tears about how Bill and Hillary were killing people, and cheating on land deals, and I'm sure if they could have figured out a way to make Bill not a citizen, they'd have gone for it. The racism is totally there, but so is the partisan hysteric factor. They're symbiotic with one another at this point.
| 165 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:34:56pm |
re: #163 engineer dog
not that i recall, altho i was only ten at the time...
i do remember being disappointed to find out that after all that talk of how the dangerously warlike goldwater would 'bomb hanoi' if elected, lbj went right ahead and bombed hanoi himself after the election
Projection is not that new a thing
| 166 |
Renaissance_Man Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:35:16pm |
I say, 'leaning no'. It really depends on whether you believe that the hatred that Conservative cultists feel towards liberals is based on race. Yes, it is hatred of the 'other', but the other is defined by demagogues and propagandists based on ideology, and an increasingly fantastic and made-up ideology at that. I think it lacks the intrinsic sense of genetic and racial superiority I consider necessary for real racism.
As Matt Taibbi said of the Teabaggers, they may not be racist, but they are absolutely all too eager to believe the most appalling bullshit as long as it casts people they hate in a negative light. Some of that bullshit may indeed have racist undertones, but I think the core problem is less about racism and more about extreme partisan hatred and willing gullibility. And it definitely is willing - nobody with even a neutral or disinterested outlook could possibly believe the plethora of conspiracy theories that now passes for policy and principles on the modern American Right. You have to want to believe total lies to buy into it.
| 167 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:35:44pm |
re: #78 HappyWarrior
If not racist, it certainly plays to racism and at the least xenophobia. Listen to Obama's critics, it's that "he's different."
That one creeps me out, partly because they can't explain it, but it clearly means something to their listeners. He's 'different'. He doesn't 'feel' like you and me. He didn't 'grow up' like you and me.
This may draw some people closer to them. It alienates the hell out of me.
| 168 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:36:37pm |
re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist
Not too strong, and I may be splitting too fine a hair here. I do remember the folks who were practically in tears about how Bill and Hillary were killing people, and cheating on land deals, and I'm sure if they could have figured out a way to make Bill not a citizen, they'd have gone for it. The racism is totally there, but so is the partisan hysteric factor. They're symbiotic with one another at this point.
The partisanship is probably the root cause with the racism merely being a convenient tool to hang it on. Birtherism, however, would not be an issue without the racism inherent in questioning Obama's origin as a way of delegitimizing him, since the whole "pallin' around with terrorists' thing didn't really work all that well
| 169 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:37:10pm |
re: #159 talon_262
Unplug every drive from the system (even card readers) except the hard drive you're installing Windows to, the CD/DVD drive, and the floppy drive (if applicable). Should solve that problem, as it has for me in the past...
Thanks, I just did that. As soon as I saw the situation I knew what happened.
The 4th install seems to be going well.
| 170 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:37:59pm |
re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist
That one creeps me out, partly because they can't explain it, but it clearly means something to their listeners. He's 'different'. He doesn't 'feel' like you and me. He didn't 'grow up' like you and me.
This may draw some people closer to them. It alienates the hell out of me.
The first step in dehumanizing someone is painting them as the "other". That's why it creeps you out. It's not that far from saying that President Obama is "different" or an "other" to saying he's not American to going even further and saying he's less than human.
| 171 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:38:33pm |
re: #162 prononymous
Whoa there now! Getting a little greedy there? Your daughters aren't pregnant after all.
And just how long will it take you to correct that state?
OK, I'll settle for three cows, two of them pregnant.
| 172 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:39:28pm |
I think it's either racism, xenophobia, hyper partisanship, stupidity or all of the above. I think there is also the 27% Crazifacation Factor at play.
[Link: philosophistry.com...]
The Crazification FactorThe "Crazification Factor" is the percentage of the population that is crazy and will vote for a candidate against all rational judgment. Supposedly, this is 27%.
This may help explain the 28% approval rating of Bush.
From Plastic by bokeh:
"In 2005, screenwriter and blogger John Rogers transcribed a hilarious discussion in which his friend Tyrone used the 2004 Obama/Keyes senate election to posit a "27% Crazification Factor for any population". Looks like he was correct."
And the original positing of this theory
Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That's crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population
Which ever on you think it is, they all talking willful ignorance and stupidity. People can argue about whether or not birthers are racism, but they are more than like not very bright, lacking in critical thinking skills and probably crazy assholes too.
| 173 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:39:37pm |
re: #170 Lidane
The first step in dehumanizing someone is painting them as the "other". That's why it creeps you out. It's not that far from saying that President Obama is "different" or an "other" to saying he's not American to going even further and saying he's less than human.
bingo
| 174 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:40:08pm |
re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist
That one creeps me out, partly because they can't explain it, but it clearly means something to their listeners. He's 'different'. He doesn't 'feel' like you and me. He didn't 'grow up' like you and me.
This may draw some people closer to them. It alienates the hell out of me.
He's inherited his father's anger and (black) African attitude.
| 175 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:41:06pm |
re: #171 b_sharp
I'm grossing myself out. Changing the subject now...
| 177 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:41:43pm |
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
I agree with Brett Favre. Snakes should be set free!
(get it?)
| 178 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:41:46pm |
re: #172 moderatelyradicalliberal
I think it's either racism, xenophobia, hyper partisanship, stupidity or all of the above. I think there is also the 27% Crazifacation Factor at play.
[Link: philosophistry.com...]
Which ever on you think it is, they all talking willful ignorance and stupidity. People can argue about whether or not birthers are racism, but they are more than like not very bright, lacking in critical thinking skills and probably crazy assholes too.
27%
that's exactly the number i noticed as coming up again and again as the percentage giving the most moronic answer to any poll question
imagine that - 50 million amercans dumb as philly cheese steaks
| 179 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:42:15pm |
Leaning towards yes. I'm reasonably sure that if you changed nothing else about him except:
1. make him white
2. change his name to Björn Ødegård
there would probably be far fewer birthers.
But I don't know. I think kookery is the seed, but racism makes it grow.
| 180 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:42:25pm |
re: #171 b_sharp
And just how long will it take you to correct that state?
OK, I'll settle for three cows, two of them pregnant.
what about the udder one?
Or should I not try to milk this joke?
Too cheesy?
| 181 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:42:33pm |
re: #82 eclectic infidel
Hi there. How you doing? Has a cooler head prevailed since last our emails cross wires?
I've calmed. Have a cat on my left arm, a slowly burning natural product to my right, and a glass of sangiovese nearby for moisture.
I'm thinking of a sort of thesis, if you will, regarding the next wave of emails I'm going to start sending out to that list. I'll share later.
All has gone radio silent for now, and I'm in less of a screaming fury. Mostly because I'm playing Scrabble with the computer and talking about Barry Goldwater's citizenship, instead of thinking about local politics.
I don't want to be unreasonable. People are allowed to be dumbasses if they wish. But I feel as though it's quite one-sided, and the herbally named one gets under my skin.
| 182 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:42:43pm |
re: #172 moderatelyradicalliberal
Rotating title nomination for:
I think there is also the 27% Crazifacation Factor at play.
| 183 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:42:52pm |
re: #178 engineer dog
27%
that's exactly the number i noticed as coming up again and again as the percentage giving the most moronic answer to any poll question
imagine that - 50 million amercans dumb as philly cheese steaks
But I LIKE Philly cheese steaks!
| 185 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:43:21pm |
re: #175 prononymous
I'm grossing myself out. Changing the subject now...
What you were doing wasn't gross. Gross is the hate spew coming from Stalker "Princess Natasha" tonight. Absolutely horrid, and yet other Stalkers applaud. they do this because she's the only "woman' who will stand their company.
[waves to the haters]
| 186 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:43:57pm |
re: #86 Kilroy
Why did O agree to have the oath of office re-administered; seems trivial but he obviously thought it critical.
Becoming President is rather a big deal. I can understand the urge to do everything perfectly correctly.
| 187 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:44:06pm |
re: #178 engineer dog
27%
that's exactly the number i noticed as coming up again and again as the percentage giving the most moronic answer to any poll question
imagine that - 50 million amercans dumb as philly cheese steaks
I'm more thinking box of rocks or bag of hammers...what do you think?
| 188 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:44:24pm |
re: #180 PT Barnum
what about the udder one?
Or should I not try to milk this joke?
Too cheesy?
You don't have enough Cheddar to make that deal.
| 189 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:44:27pm |
re: #184 Floral Giraffe
Ewww.
hey, I'm a fan of the tasteless. especially when some damn snake is telling it.
| 190 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:44:33pm |
re: #170 Lidane
The first step in dehumanizing someone is painting them as the "other". That's why it creeps you out. It's not that far from saying that President Obama is "different" or an "other" to saying he's not American to going even further and saying he's less than human.
Exactly. And of course the question is "different" compared to who? Different from other presidents? well then lets talk about the most obvious differences and all you've got it his race, his name, they fact that he spent some of his childhood living abroad and that in his adult life he lived in an urban area. Anyone who it bothered or think that makes him un-American is a bigot or a narcissist who think only people like them are real Americans.
| 191 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:44:53pm |
re: #90 PhillyPretzel
Another piece of trivia. Governor Jesse Ventura was sworn in twice under different names.
Just to make sure all his alternate personalities were also governor, or what?
| 192 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:45:14pm |
| 193 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:46:01pm |
re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist
That one creeps me out, partly because they can't explain it, but it clearly means something to their listeners. He's 'different'. He doesn't 'feel' like you and me. He didn't 'grow up' like you and me.
This may draw some people closer to them. It alienates the hell out of me.
The next time someone tells me that he is different, I'm going to say "good, we need diversity".
Diversity in ideas/backgrounds/philosophies/cultures/etc, as genetic diversity does for evolution, provides the marketplace of ideas from which the bad ones are culled and the good ones taken and refined. The last thing we need is for everyone to agree on everything.
| 194 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:46:18pm |
re: #188 Dark_Falcon
You don't have enough Cheddar to make that deal.
I guess I should have rennet it up the flag pole first.
| 195 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:46:24pm |
oh, cheese louise, not this again.
| 196 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:46:51pm |
re: #175 prononymous
I'm grossing myself out. Changing the subject now...
Good idea.
At least it wasn't chickens.
| 197 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:47:01pm |
| 198 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:47:12pm |
re: #177 Stanley Sea
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
I agree with Brett Favre. Snakes should be set free!
(get it?)
His snake was more a worm.
| 199 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:47:15pm |
re: #176 jaunte
He has a certain anti-colonialist vibe.
Anti-colonialist vibes:
Dizzy Gillespie, Milt Jackson--Anthropology
| 200 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:47:32pm |
re: #114 Rightwingconspirator
Maybe this makes it worse but I think all 3 times was his company. I don't think he ever filed personal bankruptcy.
Maybe I would feel different if this were someone I liked better, but that just doesn't seem like a great omen for the presidency. What's he going to do, come in and say that government should be run like a business--very badly?
Hurt Fiorina a lot--I think a lot of California voters might have gone for the 'successful business leader' approach, except that what everyone remembered was that she'd crashed Hewlett Packard.
| 202 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:47:36pm |
| 203 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:47:42pm |
re: #193 prononymous
The next time someone tells me that he is different, I'm going to say "good, we need diversity".
Diversity in ideas/backgrounds/philosophies/cultures/etc, as genetic diversity does for evolution, provides the marketplace of ideas from which the bad ones are culled and the good ones taken and refined. The last thing we need is for everyone to agree on everything.
But among the folks for which this is an issue, being different is just wrong! Conformity is much more important. (Spoken from first hand knowledge of growing up in a small town and being a nerd.)
| 204 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:48:11pm |
re: #180 PT Barnum
what about the udder one?
Or should I not try to milk this joke?
Too cheesy?
You missed the toast thread.
| 206 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:48:51pm |
That's ok, DF, I'll colby with it.
| 208 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:49:03pm |
re: #118 engineer dog
möbius hair violates the constitution since the president's haircut must exist in the same universe as the district of columbia and have both an inside and an outside
sec 32, paragraph xviii
I just don't want to have to take a vacation in Europe during a Trump presidency. You know there's going to be that moment when you're on a bus with a German tourist, and he runs out of small talk, and finally just asks, "Can I ask what is the matter with your president's hair? Is it a defect from birth, or was there with him an accident?"
| 209 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:49:07pm |
re: #183 PT Barnum
But I LIKE Philly cheese steaks!
if philly cheese steaks were really smart, you wouldn't be able to catch 'em and eat them, now, would you?
| 210 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:49:19pm |
| 211 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:49:27pm |
re: #185 Dark_Falcon
I wouldn't even know where to look for their crap. And from your description, I don't want to. They sound like grade AAA losers.
| 213 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:49:48pm |
re: #123 Stanley Sea
Oh, this is pitiful.
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
I believe there's something in the Constitution about people not being chattel. I should look it up.
| 214 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:49:52pm |
| 215 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:50:47pm |
re: #187 PT Barnum
I'm more thinking box of rocks or bag of hammers...what do you think?
Many rocks are interesting and hammers are useful.
Philly cheese steaks result in smelly gas.
| 216 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:50:52pm |
Also to in reference to the Crazification Factor, I've heard people argue that racism is a form of mental illness. It's got elements of many certifiable disorders: narcissism (belief in superiority), paranoia (the fill in the blank are out to get you) rage (fill in the blank is the blame for everything wrong) and denial of reality (ignoring of facts that refute racist beliefs).
| 217 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:50:53pm |
re: #210 b_sharp
I doubt you talk to your Philly cheese steaks.
Sure I do...
Look out lips, watch out gums
get ready stomach
cause here it comes!
| 218 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:51:18pm |
Of course it is. What would be the motivation otherwise? Why, with voluminous data saying that he was born in Hawaii after Hawaii became a state, would the nontraversy continue?
Half-breed, foreign-born, secret-Muzlim President.
Pandering politicians and a remarkably ignorant polity.
Stupid is as stupid does, and a large portion of the population are just rock fucking dumbshit.
[sigh]
| 219 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:51:20pm |
I think birtherism is more political than racial. Obama is, after all, exactly half white.
| 220 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:51:22pm |
| 221 |
Nervous Norvous Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:51:29pm |
re: #215 b_sharp
Many rocks are interesting and hammers are useful.
Philly cheese steaks result in smelly gas.
Not if you go light on the onions...
| 222 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:51:49pm |
re: #128 prononymous
So women are worthless until they are carrying a child? They are inching so close to just coming out and saying it.
No, no, they're just worth MORE when they're pregnant, because the BABY adds value. Isn't that NICE? That really means that women are MORE important than men, because men can't have BABIES, which is the most important job in the world.
I expect a pregnant woman's sale value went up before that pesky thing in the Constitution--I MUST look it up--put a stop to buying and selling human beings.
| 224 |
simoom Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:52:27pm |
re: #84 avanti
I think the Donald screwed up by releasing a less official "birth certificate than Obama has. The story has some legs:
That's actually pretty amusing. Trump provided the kind of hospital, novelty/keepsake birth certificate that the Birthers have been demanding of the President, but that is not actually a legal birth certificate, so I imagine they'll be perfectly happy with it.
| 225 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:52:38pm |
No one would ask for Colin Powell's birth certificate, other things being equal.
IMHO.
It is a conservative/liberal thing.
IMHO.
| 226 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:52:52pm |
re: #219 Ojoe
Birthers don't focus on the white half. They ignore the fact that he was born in Hawaii and has a white mother from Kansas. It's all about his scary Kenyan father with the funny name.
| 227 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:53:02pm |
re: #219 Ojoe
I think birtherism is more political than racial. Obama is, after all, exactly half white.
But you do not realize, appearance is everything.
| 228 |
Digital Display Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:53:25pm |
| 229 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:53:50pm |
re: #193 prononymous
The next time someone tells me that he is different, I'm going to say "good, we need diversity".
Diversity in ideas/backgrounds/philosophies/cultures/etc, as genetic diversity does for evolution, provides the marketplace of ideas from which the bad ones are culled and the good ones taken and refined. The last thing we need is for everyone to agree on everything.
I'm going to say "Of course he's different from most Americans. He's taller, thinner, smarter and better looking than the average American. Stop being so damn jealous".
| 230 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:53:52pm |
re: #226 Lidane
Birthers don't focus on the white half. They ignore the fact that he was born in Hawaii and has a white mother from Kansas. It's all about his scary Kenyan father with the funny name.
Ding ding ding!
| 231 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:54:18pm |
re: #225 Ojoe
No one would ask for Colin Powell's birth certificate, other things being equal.
These days, they'd just call him a RINO for endorsing Obama.
| 232 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:54:43pm |
re: #142 jaunte
How many cows you gonna need for that daughter?
Years ago, I was taking classes in Biblical Hebrew, quite intensively. One of my father's friends came by the office while I was studying, and asked how to say something quite ordinary and modern, "Where can I park my car?" or the like.
I had no idea. Didn't know park, didn't know car. Then he asked how to say "How many camels to make that little girl my wife?" and I whipped it off on the spot. Easy.
| 233 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:54:46pm |
re: #228 HoosierHoops
It's a Muenster cheese thread!
All of a sudden I'm starving. Must get food. Japanese rest. closed on Monday. It's fresh hell Monday of course.
| 234 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:55:42pm |
re: #147 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Hey now, there's a lot of good in arraigned marriages! Negotiating your daughter's future away in return for social or material wealth is far better than letting her go off and get pregnant by some random kid off the street! What kind of father wouldn't look out for his daughter's future?
///
My mother commented on "The Bachelor" that it's the worst of an arranged marriage, and the worst of a love match, with none of the redeeming features of either.
| 235 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:55:52pm |
| 236 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:56:23pm |
re: #234 SanFranciscoZionist
My mother commented on "The Bachelor" that it's the worst of an arranged marriage, and the worst of a love match, with none of the redeeming features of either.
It's also shitty TV. I tried watching an episode of it once. I lasted five minutes.
| 237 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:56:24pm |
re: #219 Ojoe
I think birtherism is more political than racial. Obama is, after all, exactly half white.
At this latitude (31.2 N), exactly half white is exactly black.
| 238 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:56:36pm |
254/48.9%Yes
129/24.9%No
113/21.8%Leaning toward yes
15/2.9%Leaning toward no
8/1.5%Undecided
FYI update on the poll
| 239 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:56:41pm |
re: #151 Stanley Sea
And now, for the humor interlude so desperately needed
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
Gonna listen to some Jazz tonight. You know I love some great flute work. Do they provide it or is it bring your own basket? #snakeonthetown
I have absolutely fallen for the Bronx Zoo's Cobra.
| 240 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:57:27pm |
re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist
I have absolutely fallen for the Bronx Zoo's Cobra.
me too! the huge lol needed.
| 241 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:57:58pm |
re: #157 Lidane
The only political reasons to be a Birther ARE racist. You have to literally suspend all disbelief and think that a United States Senator was able to fool the Secret Service, FBI, NSA, and CIA when he went through his security clearance checks. You have to believe that a man with an American mother isn't an American. You have to believe that somehow, Barack Obama went back in time and forged a birth announcement in the newspaper and that the State of Hawaii is complicit in the plot.
It's naked racism and xenophobia. There are no other reasons to be a Birther. Period.
It's not so much that you have to be a racist, as that you have to be colossally stupid. I assume it's possible to hate Barack Obama for being black, without being so completely without critical thinking skills that you buy this insane narrative.
| 242 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:57:58pm |
re: #231 Lidane
These days, they'd just call him a RINO for endorsing Obama.
Endorsing the Democrat's presidential candidate does make a person a RINO in my book. Unless in 2012 its Palin or Bachmann, then you're protecting the future of the Republican Party by endorsing Obama.
| 243 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:57:58pm |
re: #237 Decatur Deb
At this latitude (31.2 N), exactly half white is exactly black.
Man we have to get beyond that. We all bleed red, a black guy told me. & he was married to a Japanese gal.
BBL
| 244 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:58:14pm |
re: #237 Decatur Deb
At this latitude (31.2 N), exactly half white is exactly black.
Black is dominant and white is recessive.
| 245 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:58:33pm |
re: #163 engineer dog
not that i recall, altho i was only ten at the time...
i do remember being disappointed to find out that after all that talk of how the dangerously warlike goldwater would 'bomb hanoi' if elected, lbj went right ahead and bombed hanoi himself after the election
The more things change...
| 246 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:59:01pm |
re: #219 Ojoe
I think birtherism is more political than racial. Obama is, after all, exactly half white.
Since when has that ever mattered in this country? Seriously, do you think half black people with only one black parent don't have to deal with the same racism as black people with two black parents? You wouldn't know Barack Obama was half-white if nobody told you. Colin Powell looks whiter than he does. Harold Ford, Jr looks whiter than Obama does. Hell my mother looks whiter than he does. To racists Obama's black half is his only half.
| 247 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:59:13pm |
re: #236 Lidane
It's also shitty TV. I tried watching an episode of it once. I lasted five minutes.
Good for you. Insulting to both the man and the titty dancers (as we call them in Texas).
| 248 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:59:23pm |
re: #244 b_sharp
Black is dominant and white is recessive.
Not here. White is dominant and black is looking for work.
| 249 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 7:59:29pm |
re: #235 Dark_Falcon
Swiss, I thought you'd like it!
| 250 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:00:04pm |
re: #170 Lidane
The first step in dehumanizing someone is painting them as the "other". That's why it creeps you out. It's not that far from saying that President Obama is "different" or an "other" to saying he's not American to going even further and saying he's less than human.
I also suspect that I am, by their lights, 'different'.
I think different is fine. They apparently disagree.
| 251 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:00:28pm |
re: #243 Ojoe
Man we have to get beyond that. We all bleed red, a black guy told me. & he was married to a Japanese gal.
BBL
It'll take a few more generations. We're farther along than I expected.
| 252 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:00:36pm |
re: #246 moderatelyradicalliberal
Since when has that ever mattered in this country? Seriously, do you think half black people with only one black parent don't have to deal with the same racism as black people with two black parents? You wouldn't know Barack Obama was half-white if nobody told you. Colin Powell looks whiter than he does. Harold Ford, Jr looks whiter than Obama does. Hell my mother looks whiter than he does. To racists Obama's black half is his only half.
Fucking a. It's an old story that people JUST DONT GET.
| 253 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:00:43pm |
re: #248 Decatur Deb
Not here. White is dominant and black is looking for work.
What I meant was, black only needs one parent to be black but white takes two.
| 254 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:01:04pm |
re: #174 b_sharp
He's inherited his father's anger and (black) African attitude.
Obama doesn't seem that angry to me. How angry was Mr. Obama Sr. really?
| 255 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:01:05pm |
Hey all,
I voted, undecided.
I'm still trying to figure out how much is racism and how much is xenophobia.
I'm leaning towards xenophobia.
how are you tonite?
| 256 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:01:37pm |
re: #177 Stanley Sea
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
I agree with Brett Favre. Snakes should be set free!
(get it?)
If I recognize a single belt... RT @Bergdorfs @dkny
| 257 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:02:12pm |
re: #179 negativ
Leaning towards yes. I'm reasonably sure that if you changed nothing else about him except:
1. make him white
2. change his name to Björn Ødegård
there would probably be far fewer birthers.But I don't know. I think kookery is the seed, but racism makes it grow.
I don't know how to pronounce Bjorn Odegard, but I get your drift.
| 258 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:02:35pm |
re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist
Obama doesn't seem that angry to me. How angry was Mr. Obama Sr. really?
Ask Dinesh D'Souza.
| 259 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:02:48pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know how to pronounce Bjorn Odegard, but I get your drift.
Think Swedish Chef from the Muppets.
| 260 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:02:56pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know how to pronounce Bjorn Odegard, but I get your drift.
I think it has two erds.
| 261 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:03:01pm |
re: #242 Dark_Falcon
Endorsing the Democrat's presidential candidate does make a person a RINO in my book. Unless in 2012 its Palin or Bachmann, then you're protecting the future of the Republican Party by endorsing Obama.
I'd argue that endorsing Obama over McCain/Palin in 2008 was a courageous act of self-preservation for any Republican. There's endorsing your side and there's endorsing a ticket with a nominee that had health questions and a thoroughly unqualified cipher as his VP.
I had conservative and/or Republican friends refuse to vote or just outright vote Obama because they couldn't justify voting McCain/Palin.
| 262 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:03:03pm |
re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist
If I recognize a single belt... RT @Bergdorfs @dkny
LO FUCKING L.
this saved us today eh?
| 263 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:04:40pm |
re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist
Obama doesn't seem that angry to me. How angry was Mr. Obama Sr. really?
Based on Obama's own knowledge of his father that came later as an adult, he may have actually dodged a bullet when he left. He was a drunk and a mean violent one at that. According everyone who knew him he was brilliant and that's where Obama gets his smarts from, but he may have given the POTUS and his mother the gift of good bye.
| 264 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:05:18pm |
Frankly, I worry that enemies of Senator Obama will seize upon details like his grandfather’s Islamic faith or his father’s polygamy to portray him as an alien or a threat to American values. But snobbishness and paranoia ill-become a nation of immigrants, where one of our truest values is to judge people by their own merits, not their pedigrees. If we call ourselves a land of opportunity, then Mr. Obama’s heritage doesn’t threaten American values but showcases them.
Feb. 24, 2008
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 265 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:05:28pm |
re: #261 Lidane
I'd argue that endorsing Obama over McCain/Palin in 2008 was a courageous act of self-preservation for any Republican. There's endorsing your side and there's endorsing a ticket with a nominee that had health questions and a thoroughly unqualified cipher as his VP.
I had conservative and/or Republican friends refuse to vote or just outright vote Obama because they couldn't justify voting McCain/Palin.
I voted McCain because, in retrospect, I still believed that the GOP was honestly looking out for the country. God, what I fool I was.
| 266 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:05:46pm |
Thanks everyone for all the tweets on my pages post earlier.
I STAND WITH PLANNED PARENTHOOD
Let's keep it up--
Yes, my big, big hot button. . . .
| 267 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:05:53pm |
re: #265 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I voted McCain because, in retrospect, I still believed that the GOP was honestly looking out for the country. God, what I fool I was.
At that time, they seemed to be the lesser of two evils. My, how times have changed.
| 268 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:06:23pm |
re: #261 Lidane
I'd argue that endorsing Obama over McCain/Palin in 2008 was a courageous act of self-preservation for any Republican. There's endorsing your side and there's endorsing a ticket with a nominee that had health questions and a thoroughly unqualified cipher as his VP.
I had conservative and/or Republican friends refuse to vote or just outright vote Obama because they couldn't justify voting McCain/Palin.
I disagree. McCain was entirely competent for the role, and that was enough for me.
| 269 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:07:01pm |
re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist
It's not so much that you have to be a racist, as that you have to be colossally stupid. I assume it's possible to hate Barack Obama for being black, without being so completely without critical thinking skills that you buy this insane narrative.
SFZ, I would really like to think so, but for the zipper heads out there, I really believe that it is the fact that he's got n***** blood, he's married to a n*****, and he is raising little pickaninnies in the White House.
Sorry to be blunt, but these people, no matter their ifs ands or buts, have been with us forever. And need to be shunned.
| 270 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:07:14pm |
re: #265 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I voted McCain because, in retrospect, I still believed that the GOP was honestly looking out for the country. God, what I fool I was.
Well, McCain actually is looking out. But others are not.
| 271 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:07:27pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know how to pronounce Bjorn Odegard, but I get your drift.
Bee'-orN Oh-dee'-guard.
| 272 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:07:38pm |
re: #252 Stanley Sea
Fucking a. It's an old story that people JUST DONT GET.
If I had a biracial child I would want them to fully embrace both cultures and be proud, but there are some things that I would want them to be clear on and not get blindsided by no matter how they self-identified or what they called themselves later. But then again historically being black and biracial have never been exclusive for African-Americans. I know it's different in other places like South American,the Caribbean and even in African countries.
| 273 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:07:52pm |
re: #268 Dark_Falcon
I disagree. McCain was entirely competent for the role, and that was enough for me.
McCain might have been competent, but the idea that Caribou Barbie could end up a heartbeat away from the nuke codes was enough to make my friends think twice.
They're hardly Obama fans, but honestly, it was all about dodging a bullet more than it was about voting for who they wanted.
| 274 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:08:18pm |
re: #263 moderatelyradicalliberal
Based on Obama's own knowledge of his father that came later as an adult, he may have actually dodged a bullet when he left. He was a drunk and a mean violent one at that. According everyone who knew him he was brilliant and that's where Obama gets his smarts from, but he may have given the POTUS and his mother the gift of good bye.
His mama was no slouch either.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 275 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:08:54pm |
re: #219 Ojoe
I think birtherism is more political than racial. Obama is, after all, exactly half white.
By longstanding American practice, half white is not white, and half black is black. That's starting to change, but it's slow going.
(Which reminds me of a singularly hilarious moment when, in a class devoted to sensitivity around race and ethnicity, our dear dope of a professor called out a young women for not standing up to identify as black, only to be told calmly, "I identify as neither black nor white, I am a biracial American.")
| 276 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:09:05pm |
re: #273 Lidane
McCain might have been competent, but the idea that Caribou Barbie could end up a heartbeat away from the nuke codes was enough to make my friends think twice.
They're hardly Obama fans, but honestly, it was all about dodging a bullet more than it was about voting for who they wanted.
I heard this a lot from people I worked with. Funny thing is, at the time, I actually thought Palin was reasonably intelligent. Then she opened her mouth and rammed her foot down her throat.
| 277 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:09:17pm |
re: #267 thedopefishlives
At that time, they seemed to be the lesser of two evils. My, how times have changed.
Yeah, turns out the GOP had even worse politicians to offer the American people.
| 278 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:09:58pm |
re: #270 Dark_Falcon
Well, McCain actually is looking out. But others are not.
To be honest, I'm not sure I trusted McCain much towards the end, and have since come to realize I was right. The man is a patriot, but also a political opportunist. His last reelection bid shows that he's not above jumping on whichever bandwagon takes him to the end.
The only way I could have felt good about seeing him as president was if he'd brought a fellow moderate onboard the ticket to round it. Palin being on the bottom of the ticket was a disaster, one that I don't think he'll ever live down.
| 279 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:10:23pm |
re: #264 Jeff In Ohio
Feb. 24, 2008
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
...If we call ourselves a land of opportunity, then Mr. Obama’s heritage doesn’t threaten American values but showcases them...
Oh, but no. How things have changed. This, this was one of my most deep feelings against the people questioning Obama's life. Fucking A, he wasn't a silver spoon fed person and we are against it? ugh.
| 280 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:10:28pm |
re: #277 moderatelyradicalliberal
Just wait for 2012, it'll beat 2008 by a long shot.
If the current field is any indication!
| 281 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:10:53pm |
re: #225 Ojoe
No one would ask for Colin Powell's birth certificate, other things being equal.
IMHO.
It is a conservative/liberal thing.
IMHO.
Powell's parents were Jamaican immigrants, so it might have been quite easy to start the same sort of crap with him. Why do you think he would have been immune? (Not sure, just curious.)
| 282 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:11:14pm |
re: #276 thedopefishlives
I heard this a lot from people I worked with. Funny thing is, at the time, I actually thought Palin was reasonably intelligent. Then she opened her mouth and rammed her foot down her throat.
I never thought she was intelligent. Her speech at the RNC proved that.
Besides, the only reasons she was chosen was to appeal to both the wingnut base and disgruntled Hillary voters and to knock Obama off the front page after his DNC speech. McCain didn't put any thought into her selection at all, and the VP is the first major decision a POTUS makes. Even if I'd been inclined to vote McCain before then, I'd have switched my vote for that reason alone.
| 283 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:11:18pm |
re: #280 Floral Giraffe
Just wait for 2012, it'll beat 2008 by a long shot.
If the current field is any indication!
It'll be hilarious to watch. Hilarious and somewhat depressing.
| 284 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:11:28pm |
re: #226 Lidane
Birthers don't focus on the white half. They ignore the fact that he was born in Hawaii and has a white mother from Kansas. It's all about his scary Kenyan father with the funny name.
They focus on the 'white half' when they want to deny they're being racists. "I hate his white half just as much as his black half. Hardy har har."
| 285 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:11:34pm |
re: #274 marjoriemoon
His mama was no slouch either.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Stanley Ann Dunham was awesome and woman ahead of her time. I wish she had lived to see her son as President no matter how ugly his opponents are being to him. She'd be offended, but she was kick ass chick.
| 286 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:12:06pm |
re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist
I think it would have been slightly harder to start the same crap with Powell because of his military service.
| 287 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:13:21pm |
Palin might have turned out to be a different person if she was elected VP. Since the "let down" of losing the election, I think she's become a media whore.
She sited financial need for the reason she left the governorship. I think that and other needs would not have emerged if they won the election. A few weeks in the VP slot and she might have resigned that too. It would have become obvious she wasn't capable, they would keep her in the background or doing silly things like appearing at 4H fairs or something.
The Tea Party wouldn't have the impetus it has had either.
None of this shit would be happening and we'd have John McCain dealing with foreign policy.
I believe that what has happened is what is supposed to have happened, because I need to.
As I've said many times, we are in a Brave New World.
| 288 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:13:31pm |
re: #272 moderatelyradicalliberal
If I had a biracial child I would want them to fully embrace both cultures and be proud, but there are some things that I would want them to be clear on and not get blindsided by no matter how they self-identified or what they called themselves later. But then again historically being black and biracial have never been exclusive for African-Americans. I know it's different in other places like South American,the Caribbean and even in African countries.
In much of the Caribbean and S. America, it's not an issue. There's so much racial mixing, that folks that move here find American racism shocking. Indian, European, African, Asian, etc.
The term being recognized now though here is biracial which is a good thing and maybe another reason the people who would like to single out Blacks are kicking so hard (IMO).
| 289 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:13:43pm |
re: #286 jaunte
I think it would have been slightly harder to start the same crap with Powell because of his military service.
That would have been true before his disastrous speech at the UN. After that, all bets were off.
| 290 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:13:59pm |
re: #244 b_sharp
Black is dominant and white is recessive.
That said, Obama is the absolute image of his mother's father. Same facial bones, same smile.
| 291 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:15:26pm |
re: #278 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
To be honest, I'm not sure I trusted McCain much towards the end, and have since come to realize I was right. The man is a patriot, but also a political opportunist. His last reelection bid shows that he's not above jumping on whichever bandwagon takes him to the end.
The only way I could have felt good about seeing him as president was if he'd brought a fellow moderate onboard the ticket to round it. Palin being on the bottom of the ticket was a disaster, one that I don't think he'll ever live down.
He pretty much had to do what he did in 2010. He was facing a loony tea-bagger who would have been an outright disaster. To win, he had to move well to the right and cut off attempts to flank him that way. It worked, helped by J.D Hayworth's repeated Nirther gaffes.
| 292 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:15:44pm |
re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist
Powell's parents were Jamaican immigrants, so it might have been quite easy to start the same sort of crap with him. Why do you think he would have been immune? (Not sure, just curious.)
Yeah, I think the former Joint Chief of the Military would have been immune regarding his race. Even my father wanted him to be POTUS.
We also have known Powell for a long time.
Obama seemed to come out left field like a rocket. His name was different, his background was different, everything about him seems different.
That's why I think it's more xenophobia than racism.
| 293 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:15:45pm |
re: #246 moderatelyradicalliberal
Since when has that ever mattered in this country? Seriously, do you think half black people with only one black parent don't have to deal with the same racism as black people with two black parents?
Hell, more, sometimes. I had to have a real sharp talk with some girls in my class this fall about how calling your classmate a 'little yellow kitty' when you're pissed off at her is actually real racist speech, and will get you in real trouble with me and the principal.
| 294 |
GirlyMan Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:15:58pm |
I'd have just gone yay or nay on this poll. It would have been more informative. ... Cheers!
| 295 |
simoom Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:16:29pm |
I voted "leaning toward yes".
Partisans seem to naturally have a lower barrier for believing conspiracies about their ideological opponents. But Birtherism often isn't just about the idea that the President's parents somehow fudged his place of birth. It seems to be entwined with the President possessing some kind of Manchurian candidate outside loyalties lie (outside our nation), where he lacks a fundamental patriotism and love of country, where his secret goal and greatest desire is to weaken our country and diminish our role in the world.
That suspicious nature, that nefarious otherness that many Birthers see in the President, that makes this conspiracy feel right in their guts, and that makes it almost entirely resistant to debunking evidence -- that's where I have trouble not seeing evidence of racism.
| 296 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:17:08pm |
re: #290 SanFranciscoZionist
That said, Obama is the absolute image of his mother's father. Same facial bones, same smile.
Same big ears! His sister looks a lot like their mother. And the oldest Obama girl looks like the POTUS made himself a female clone. This Dunham genes are strong. They have gone unabated no matter what got thrown in the mix.
| 297 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:17:48pm |
re: #282 Lidane
I never thought she was intelligent. Her speech at the RNC proved that.
Besides, the only reasons she was chosen was to appeal to both the wingnut base and disgruntled Hillary voters and to knock Obama off the front page after his DNC speech. McCain didn't put any thought into her selection at all, and the VP is the first major decision a POTUS makes. Even if I'd been inclined to vote McCain before then, I'd have switched my vote for that reason alone.
There's a good book coming out
The Lies of Sarah Palin
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
She can't put an organization together. She is absolutely dysfunctional. And she is a pathological liar, so she can't keep her story straight
| 298 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:18:06pm |
a lot of the wingers like this herman cain guy. i think it shows that a large number of wingnuts are not racist at all, merely ignorant and deluded
the people like this need to nominate somebody like cain so that they can finally be made to see how many actual scabby racists they are tolerating in their party while managing to live in denial of it the whole time...
| 299 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:18:17pm |
re: #263 moderatelyradicalliberal
Based on Obama's own knowledge of his father that came later as an adult, he may have actually dodged a bullet when he left. He was a drunk and a mean violent one at that. According everyone who knew him he was brilliant and that's where Obama gets his smarts from, but he may have given the POTUS and his mother the gift of good bye.
I'm being an armchair shrink here, but Obama's mother seems to have had a real attraction to men who would never love her or their children as much as their causes.
| 300 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:18:53pm |
re: #265 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I voted McCain because, in retrospect, I still believed that the GOP was honestly looking out for the country. God, what I fool I was.
You acted in good faith. People are allowed to change their minds about political matters.
| 301 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:19:24pm |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm being an armchair shrink here, but Obama's mother seems to have had a real attraction to men who would never love her or their children as much as their causes.
Yeah, she was a weird one.
Think, being named Stanley because your father wanted a boy. Alcoholic father, emotionally absent husbands . . . .
WTF?
| 302 |
Petero1818 Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:20:11pm |
re: #149 b_sharp
I think the racism leaks from some of the more slimy birthers and it gets on them all. Sort of like how bacteria and viruses spread.
+1
| 303 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:20:21pm |
re: #291 Dark_Falcon
He pretty much had to do what he did in 2010. He was facing a loony tea-bagger who would have been an outright disaster. To win, he had to move well to the right and cut off attempts to flank him that way. It worked, helped by J.D Hayworth's repeated Nirther gaffes.
I don't know, in some ways I'd have preferred an honest Birther than a dishonest RINO.
| 304 |
Digital Display Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:21:16pm |
re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist
You acted in good faith. People are allowed to change their minds about political matters.
Good Evening SFZ..Do you ever read CW Nevius in the Chronicle?
| 305 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:21:21pm |
re: #269 austin_blue
SFZ, I would really like to think so, but for the zipper heads out there, I really believe that it is the fact that he's got n***** blood, he's married to a n*****, and he is raising little pickaninnies in the White House.
Sorry to be blunt, but these people, no matter their ifs ands or buts, have been with us forever. And need to be shunned.
I wish I could disagree.
I can't.
I still have this fantasy that the slaves who built the White House are watching Michelle entertaining diplomats, and the little girls doing their homework in their bedroom, and just kvelling all over heaven.
Even if you don't like Barack Obama as a politician, I honestly don't see how any American could not see THAT as a triumph for the nation.
But apparently a lot of them don't.
:(
| 306 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:21:52pm |
re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist
Hell, more, sometimes. I had to have a real sharp talk with some girls in my class this fall about how calling your classmate a 'little yellow kitty' when you're pissed off at her is actually real racist speech, and will get you in real trouble with me and the principal.
I believe it, in the AA community you can catch all kinds of hell if you are really light or really dark. We call it colorism or being color struck, it's a terrible hold over from slavery. If you are on one of the extremes you can find yourself favored and disfavored all at the same time. My family runs the spectrum, but there was no colorism internally.
| 307 |
Petero1818 Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:23:02pm |
re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist
You acted in good faith. People are allowed to change their minds about political matters.
Unless you are planning on running for office someday/
| 308 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:23:37pm |
re: #306 moderatelyradicalliberal
I believe it, in the AA community you can catch all kinds of hell if you are really light or really dark. We call it colorism or being color struck, it's a terrible hold over from slavery. If you are on one of the extremes you can find yourself favored and disfavored all at the same time. My family runs the spectrum, but there was no colorism internally.
I've heard the "no darker than a brown paper bag" concept.
Or, "beautiful honey colored grandchildren"
Which, if I said it, would be racism.
kinda hypocritical IMHO.
| 309 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:24:31pm |
re: #272 moderatelyradicalliberal
If I had a biracial child I would want them to fully embrace both cultures and be proud, but there are some things that I would want them to be clear on and not get blindsided by no matter how they self-identified or what they called themselves later. But then again historically being black and biracial have never been exclusive for African-Americans. I know it's different in other places like South American,the Caribbean and even in African countries.
Last year, for Black History Month, one of the things we did was put up photos of some of the African-American kids at the school, and ask them to describe their heritage in their own words. Some kids like 'black', others 'African-American', and still others say 'Creole'. I also saw "Irish", "French", "Italian", "Cherokee", "Native American", "Japanese" and "Filipina" mentioned by some of the kids. It was very beautiful. Some of them wrote elaborate paragraphs, others just a line or two. The other kids really liked it.
(We also had a pair of kids at the assembly dress up as Barack and Michelle, and do a dialogue about black history. It was ADORABLE.)
| 310 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:24:39pm |
re: #298 engineer dog
a lot of the wingers like this herman cain guy. i think it shows that a large number of wingnuts are not racist at all, merely ignorant and deluded
the people like this need to nominate somebody like cain so that they can finally be made to see how many actual scabby racists they are tolerating in their party while managing to live in denial of it the whole time...
Not necessarily. It's not uncommon for racist to find people of other races that they find acceptable or more like them. This does not however change their overall opinion of other groups as a whole. It's more of a "why can't all of your people be like you?" kinda thing.
| 311 |
Targetpractice Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:26:22pm |
re: #307 Petero1818
Unless you are planning on running for office someday/
Nah, I could never be a politician. I'd get bored too easily.
| 312 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:26:47pm |
re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm being an armchair shrink here, but Obama's mother seems to have had a real attraction to men who would never love her or their children as much as their causes.
I think so. What made them most attractive is what ultimately made them not the best fathers or husbands.
| 313 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:27:32pm |
re: #293 SanFranciscoZionist
Hell, more, sometimes. I had to have a real sharp talk with some girls in my class this fall about how calling your classmate a 'little yellow kitty' when you're pissed off at her is actually real racist speech, and will get you in real trouble with me and the principal.
I've heard the term "high yellow" among my Jamaican friends. Of course, my Caribbean friends sort of sort each other by coffee... Espresso, latte or cafe con leche. It would probably be racist coming from me. I think they're just poking fun at each other.
| 314 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:27:58pm |
re: #292 ggt
Yeah, I think the former Joint Chief of the Military would have been immune regarding his race. Even my father wanted him to be POTUS.
We also have known Powell for a long time.
Obama seemed to come out left field like a rocket. His name was different, his background was different, everything about him seems different.
That's why I think it's more xenophobia than racism.
I see your point, but now that I've seen all this craziness, I guess I'll always wonder.
| 315 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:28:10pm |
re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist
He would be immune because he was sort of conservative.
| 316 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:29:07pm |
I still have this fantasy that the slaves who built the White House are watching Michelle entertaining diplomats, and the little girls doing their homework in their bedroom, and just kvelling all over heaven.
Oh the beauty of this sentence.
| 317 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:29:20pm |
I'm sorry, but I'm too tired to continue. Going to bed now. Goodnight.
| 318 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:29:52pm |
re: #296 moderatelyradicalliberal
Same big ears! His sister looks a lot like their mother. And the oldest Obama girl looks like the POTUS made himself a female clone. This Dunham genes are strong. They have gone unabated no matter what got thrown in the mix.
The little girls are going to be knockouts. And tall! Malia does have those same features, you're right. The younger child maybe looks a bit more like Michelle's side.
| 319 |
Spocomptonite Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:30:58pm |
I voted 'leaning toward yes', mostly because to say 'yes' entirely is to paint with a very broad brush.
I may not like their views, but I'll try my best not to stereotype them because of it.
That said, I'm sure there are some people who, at the most basic subconscious level, can't believe black people can reach positions of power that are above themselves, and thus they try to cling to any excuse that renders their position/power illegitimate. So racism is certainly a part of the collective popularity, but at an individual basis doesn't mean everyone who is a birther is racist.
They are 110% ignorant, however. I'd definitely vote yes to that.
| 320 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:31:37pm |
re: #298 engineer dog
a lot of the wingers like this herman cain guy. i think it shows that a large number of wingnuts are not racist at all, merely ignorant and deluded
the people like this need to nominate somebody like cain so that they can finally be made to see how many actual scabby racists they are tolerating in their party while managing to live in denial of it the whole time...
That, I guess, is the brazillion-dollar question. How much of the racism would be swept back under the rug if a black Republican ran, and how much would remain? How much would blossom among Democrats?
American racism is sort of like having mold in your basement. It's disgusting and bad for your national health, but it's also sort of fascinating in a really creepy way.
| 321 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:32:10pm |
| 322 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:32:24pm |
re: #313 marjoriemoon
I've heard the term "high yellow" among my Jamaican friends. Of course, my Caribbean friends sort of sort each other by coffee... Espresso, latte or cafe con leche. It would probably be racist coming from me. I think they're just poking fun at each other.
Yeah, some of it's good natured teasing, but when you're a kid it's almost always mean. My mother's brother is very fair and his wife is very dark and when my cousin was born she thought the nurse had brought her the wrong baby because he looked Mexican (we're in Texas). And you know what? He still does!
| 323 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:33:42pm |
Here are the lyrics to the song "Melting Pot"
Take a pinch of white man
Wrap him up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of red indian boy
Oh like a curly latin kinkies
Oh lordy, lordy, mixed with yellow chinkees, yeah
You know you lump it all together
And you got a recipe for a get along scene
Oh what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for
A hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score
Rabbis and the friars
Vishnus and the gurus
We got the beatles or the sun god
Well it really doesn't matter
What religion you choose
And be thankful little mrs. graceful
You know that livin' could be tasteful
We should all get together in a lovin machine
I think I'll call up the queen
It' s only fair that she knows, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for
A hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score
Coffee coloured people
Coffee coloured people
Coffee coloured people by the score
By Blue Mink IIRC
| 324 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:34:00pm |
re: #265 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I voted McCain because, in retrospect, I still believed that the GOP was honestly looking out for the country. God, what I fool I was.
[Link: www.alphanovus.org...]
When the BP oil disaster happened last year, did you find yourself offended at the suggestion that BP were in some way responsible for the situation? When Wall Street was bailed out in 2008 to the tune of $700 billion, did you find yourself enraged that some people suggested that the CEOs shouldn’t be allowed to give themselves bonuses for, you know, nearly destroying the economy? When Wright County Egg recalled 228 million eggs because they may have made you release bloody diarrhea for a week, did you find yourself disgusted beyond belief that people were too lazy to develop a resistance against salmonella?
If you answered yes to any of the aforementioned questions, well, you can thank Teddy Roosevelt. See, Teddy was president during this little period called the Progressive Era, and he was the first progressive president. Turns out that these millionaires and billionaires known as Robber Barons, weren’t exactly liked by most people (despite their heroic sounding titles). They were the Ken Lays, Tony Haywards, and Lloyed Blankfeins of their time, and shockingly enough, most working class people DIDN’T go to bat for these guys.
Roosevelt stepped up, and enacted many new regulations. He also went after and broke up many companies that were ‘trusts’ (i.e. monopolies) This earned him the title of “Trust Buster”. Put this in perspective, the likes of Goldman Sachs helped bring us to the brink of worldwide, utter economic destruction that probably would have taken us even longer to get out than the Great Depression, and they (along with other Wall Streeters) actually got REWARDED for it. And this is by supposedly the most anti-business president in history! If Roosevelt were alive today, the most generous thing he’d give Lloyed Blankfein would be a 5 minute head start.
| 325 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:34:13pm |
re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist
Last year, for Black History Month, one of the things we did was put up photos of some of the African-American kids at the school, and ask them to describe their heritage in their own words. Some kids like 'black', others 'African-American', and still others say 'Creole'. I also saw "Irish", "French", "Italian", "Cherokee", "Native American", "Japanese" and "Filipina" mentioned by some of the kids. It was very beautiful. Some of them wrote elaborate paragraphs, others just a line or two. The other kids really liked it.
(We also had a pair of kids at the assembly dress up as Barack and Michelle, and do a dialogue about black history. It was ADORABLE.)
Oh that's sweet. I don't think your students will struggle with race nearly as much. Each generation seems to get better over time.
| 326 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:34:50pm |
Bloody hell, you people are so full of cool.
Intelligent, compassionate and rational discourse to read, and Joe Bonamassa to listen to.
The night is looking up.
| 327 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:36:01pm |
re: #325 moderatelyradicalliberal
Oh that's sweet. I don't think your students will struggle with race nearly as much. Each generation seems to get better over time.
and some are being raised in retro . . .
I see a lot of division in the future, it's kinda scary.
| 328 |
Digital Display Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:36:03pm |
re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist
On occasion.
He is a great guy..He used to be a sports writer years ago..
I got to know him back in the day and have exchanged thousands of emails with him since then..Just wondered if you were a reader of his..
| 329 |
sizzleRI Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:36:53pm |
re: #272 moderatelyradicalliberal
If I had a biracial child I would want them to fully embrace both cultures and be proud, but there are some things that I would want them to be clear on and not get blindsided by no matter how they self-identified or what they called themselves later. But then again historically being black and biracial have never been exclusive for African-Americans. I know it's different in other places like South American,the Caribbean and even in African countries.
My mom was just telling me about another nurse she worked with who said something along the lines of, "I'm not racist, I just think everyone should stay with their own kind." My mom has decided that she will no longer respond with anger. Now she just asked, but who would Halle Berry date? And since she's in Tennessee she also used Harold Ford, Jr.
Because seriously, beyond the racism, its the stupidity that hurts. Does every African-American need to break down their racial make-up, and then only align themselves with the same demographics? There's a dating website idea!
| 330 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:37:19pm |
re: #306 moderatelyradicalliberal
I believe it, in the AA community you can catch all kinds of hell if you are really light or really dark. We call it colorism or being color struck, it's a terrible hold over from slavery. If you are on one of the extremes you can find yourself favored and disfavored all at the same time. My family runs the spectrum, but there was no colorism internally.
I was on the bus one day when some kids sitting near me starting yelling at, and taunting, a young woman sitting at the bus stop with her baby, minding her own business, because she was so dark-skinned. I was utterly freaked out.
I've had a lot of students struggle with being given shit--sometimes even at home--about being too light or too dark. It's an issue in some Latino communities too. It's hard to watch young people struggle with being told the way they are is not OK in some way.
| 331 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:37:42pm |
re: #272 moderatelyradicalliberal
If I had a biracial child I would want them to fully embrace both cultures and be proud, but there are some things that I would want them to be clear on and not get blindsided by no matter how they self-identified or what they called themselves later.
Like American bigots. Which used to be southern Dems but are now southern Repubs.
You know, reactionary assholes.
Miscegenation!
| 332 |
prairiefire Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:38:08pm |
re: #325 moderatelyradicalliberal
Oh that's sweet. I don't think your students will struggle with race nearly as much. Each generation seems to get better over time.
My daughter's good friend was giving another kid heck because this kid said "Of course she plays violin well, she's asian." My daughter's friend said "That's Racist! Besides, you are not even Asian." My daughter said "well, i do have this Asiatic fold in my eye", her friend said "I never noticed that!"
My daughter is 1/2 Japanese.
| 333 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:38:36pm |
re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist
Last year, for Black History Month, one of the things we did was put up photos of some of the African-American kids at the school, and ask them to describe their heritage in their own words. Some kids like 'black', others 'African-American', and still others say 'Creole'. I also saw "Irish", "French", "Italian", "Cherokee", "Native American", "Japanese" and "Filipina" mentioned by some of the kids. It was very beautiful. Some of them wrote elaborate paragraphs, others just a line or two. The other kids really liked it.
(We also had a pair of kids at the assembly dress up as Barack and Michelle, and do a dialogue about black history. It was ADORABLE.)
OMG, love it.
| 334 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:39:15pm |
re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist
I wish I could disagree.
I can't.
I still have this fantasy that the slaves who built the White House are watching Michelle entertaining diplomats, and the little girls doing their homework in their bedroom, and just kvelling all over heaven.
Even if you don't like Barack Obama as a politician, I honestly don't see how any American could not see THAT as a triumph for the nation.
But apparently a lot of them don't.
:(
Truth! Well said.
| 335 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:39:53pm |
re: #315 Ojoe
He would be immune because he was sort of conservative.
Well, he was military. But I was never really clear on his social and fiscal stances.
I did admire him, and wouldn't have minded seeing him go into running for office, but apparently Mrs. Powell was adamantly opposed to the idea.
| 336 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:40:44pm |
re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist
That, I guess, is the brazillion-dollar question. How much of the racism would be swept back under the rug if a black Republican ran, and how much would remain? How much would blossom among Democrats?
American racism is sort of like having mold in your basement. It's disgusting and bad for your national health, but it's also sort of fascinating in a really creepy way.
Yes, this is a good question and I have pondered it. I don't doubt that hyper partisanship plays a role. Some people are willing to think or believe the worst of any president that isn't of their party. I do think Republicans would howl about the racism if there was any and try to use it the same way they used patriotism during the Bush II presidency to silence any opposition.
| 337 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:42:09pm |
re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, he was military. But I was never really clear on his social and fiscal stances.
I did admire him, and wouldn't have minded seeing him go into running for office, but apparently Mrs. Powell was adamantly opposed to the idea.
I listened to his autobiography, he narrated. I really like General Powell. (General?)
My husband has heard him speak.
He worked and earned his way up the ladder and he is equal to any job we may ask of him. IMHO
All these highly charged issues lately, I think make it difficult for us to gain perspective.
| 338 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:42:23pm |
Alas the evening has come. The wingnuts are sleeping after another hard day of putting wings on nuts at the wingnut factory. Fear not though. Tomorrow is another day.
| 339 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:42:40pm |
re: #328 HoosierHoops
He is a great guy..He used to be a sports writer years ago..
I got to know him back in the day and have exchanged thousands of emails with him since then..Just wondered if you were a reader of his..
I look at his column when I get a copy of the Chron...cool that you're in touch.
| 340 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:43:03pm |
re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist
He could have been the 1st black president.
Back when Obama was running I asked black lizards if they wished that someone more stellar was running as the first probable black president & I remember several emphatic yes answers.
But it is what it is & that's good.
| 341 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:43:46pm |
re: #332 prairiefire
My daughter's good friend was giving another kid heck because this kid said "Of course she plays violin well, she's asian." My daughter's friend said "That's Racist! Besides, you are not even Asian." My daughter said "well, i do have this Asiatic fold in my eye", her friend said "I never noticed that!"
My daughter is 1/2 Japanese.
Many aboriginals have an epicanthic fold as well.
| 342 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:44:07pm |
re: #338 Gus 802
Alas the evening has come. The wingnuts are sleeping after another hard day of putting wings on nuts at the wingnut factory.
"All day long it's righty tighty, righty tighty, righty tighty until I just want to shoot something!"
| 344 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:44:29pm |
re: #329 sizzleRI
My mom was just telling me about another nurse she worked with who said something along the lines of, "I'm not racist, I just think everyone should stay with their own kind." My mom has decided that she will no longer respond with anger. Now she just asked, but who would Halle Berry date? And since she's in Tennessee she also used Harold Ford, Jr.
Because seriously, beyond the racism, its the stupidity that hurts. Does every African-American need to break down their racial make-up, and then only align themselves with the same demographics? There's a dating website idea!
Well, that was basically the concept behind the 'colored' designation in South Africa, no?
Some one pointed out a while back that we think of Halle Berry dating a white man as 'interracial', but no one thinks of the Obama's marriage like that, even though the percentages work out the same.
(Actually, I think the answer is that if you look like Halle Berry you can date whoever the hell you want to.)
| 345 |
prairiefire Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:44:36pm |
re: #337 ggt
I listened to his autobiography, he narrated. I really like General Powell. (General?)
My husband has heard him speak.
He worked and earned his way up the ladder and he is equal to any job we may ask of him. IMHO
All these highly charged issues lately, I think make it difficult for us to gain perspective.
I've heard Powell speak. He was amazing, made me feel incredibly proud and patriotic.
| 346 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:45:15pm |
re: #323 Ojoe
When we partied, the Anthro students used to ask questions like "What would the results of a complete melting-pot genetic boil down look like". A consensus answer, without much statistical work, was "Samoan". One day on campus I ran into two kids who had very Andean/Amazonian features, but the world's coolest skin--they were flat-out GOLD, so golden that it might have been a pathology. That would be a cool default human color.
| 347 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:45:20pm |
re: #342 jaunte
"All day long it's righty tighty, righty tighty, righty tighty until I just want to shoot something!"
And it's a little bitty wrench because the nuts are so small! Oh my aching fingers!
| 348 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:46:25pm |
re: #346 Decatur Deb
Yes, that would be cool, sort of like if we had fur, we'd be orange cats.
| 349 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:46:52pm |
re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist
(Actually, I think the answer is that if you look like Halle Berry you can date whoever the hell you want to.)
Well, yes!
| 350 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:46:57pm |
re: #346 Decatur Deb
One of my co-workers from Jamaica has a combo of Asian, African, and European genes, and that's about her color.
| 351 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:47:49pm |
re: #332 prairiefire
My daughter's good friend was giving another kid heck because this kid said "Of course she plays violin well, she's asian." My daughter's friend said "That's Racist! Besides, you are not even Asian." My daughter said "well, i do have this Asiatic fold in my eye", her friend said "I never noticed that!"
My daughter is 1/2 Japanese.
I've met folks with that mix who look very Asian, and some who look very European, and some who really do look mixed. It seems to be something of a crapshoot which genes take lead.
One of my students a couple of years ago asked me "Do you believe I'm half white?" because some of her friends didn't. I said "Yeah, hon, I do, because I met your mom at Parent's Night, and she looks exactly like you." But mom tells me that people rarely say that her daughter looks like her, because she has the Japanese side's coloring and eye shape.
| 352 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:50:05pm |
re: #313 marjoriemoon
I've heard the term "high yellow" among my Jamaican friends. Of course, my Caribbean friends sort of sort each other by coffee... Espresso, latte or cafe con leche. It would probably be racist coming from me. I think they're just poking fun at each other.
In New Orleans, it was the grocery bag test. There have always been three distinct ethnic groups in the town;
Whites, Creole mixed race (quadroons, octaroons, &c, primarily Catholic), and black protestants (slave descendants).
The mixed race creoles were traditionally the middle class until after the Civil War. The black protestants have always been the underclass.
but the Creoles could always pass the grocery bag test (at least as light as a Schwegman's bag), and gave them a leg up in NO society. All of the "black" mayors of NO have been Creoles.
Very small subset of America.
| 353 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:50:12pm |
re: #332 prairiefire
My daughter's good friend was giving another kid heck because this kid said "Of course she plays violin well, she's asian." My daughter's friend said "That's Racist! Besides, you are not even Asian." My daughter said "well, i do have this Asiatic fold in my eye", her friend said "I never noticed that!"
My daughter is 1/2 Japanese.
Ive often wondered being biracial is a different experience if you are of a mix other than black/white. Black/white has been THE racial fault line in this country for so long, but for other mixes I wonder. Especially, if it's when both parents belong to a minority group. Either way I say let people self identify the way they want and leave them be. Children can embrace all that they are and be prepared for people who won't like some of or all of what they are.
| 354 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:51:32pm |
Fox Nation explains what happened in Libya:
Soros Fingerprints on Libya Bombing
| 355 |
prairiefire Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:51:46pm |
re: #351 SanFranciscoZionist
We like to say that the outline looks like me, hairline, dimple in the chin, cheekbones, long legs, but the coloring is filled in darker/Asian.
My physical outline, dad's coloring to fill out the picture
| 356 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:52:21pm |
I also think racism doesn't have to be "out there" for people to hold certain feelings. They can be buried under the surface. It comes from growing up with prejudice around them and never being corrected by the family, or flat out IN the family itself. It gets ingrained at some level. Then something like Obama's birth certificate comes along and it kinda pushes them over the racist edge.
Like the neighbor, whom I knew for a number of years, mentioned one day that she "sure Jew'd em down at the flea market." She knew I'm Jewish.
Or recently a local Councilwoman in Miami got in serious hot water when she was chatting by the water cooler with some co-workers (a few Black) about how she sat in the N*r bleed section at the basketball stadium. Something like that. Anyway, she dropped the N bomb in front of African Americans without batting an eye.
It's frightening to me that such prejudices get so ingrained, they become part of people's natural vernacular to the point of their own ignorance.
| 357 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:52:48pm |
re: #351 SanFranciscoZionist
I once spent some time in Guatemala with a New York school teacher, whose mother was korean and her father was Irish. Everybody pegged her as Mexican.
| 358 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:53:04pm |
re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, that was basically the concept behind the 'colored' designation in South Africa, no?
Some one pointed out a while back that we think of Halle Berry dating a white man as 'interracial', but no one thinks of the Obama's marriage like that, even though the percentages work out the same.
(Actually, I think the answer is that if you look like Halle Berry you can date whoever the hell you want to.)
Throw in rich and famous and she can really date who she wants. I've never heard of any trouble coming from the fact that all of Qunicy Jones' wives have been white and all of Robert Di Nero's wives have been black. If you are rich and/or famous enough you can do whatever or whomever the hell you want.
| 359 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:53:20pm |
Where I live there doesn't seem to be the racial fault-line that there is elsewhere.
There are the pale-faced and everybody else.
No way to tell if many individuals are polynesian, asian, hispanic, european, african . . ..(unless they speak with an accent)
I can tell you that at the store I work, 50% of the customers are not pale-faced. And just because someone is pale-faced, doesn't mean they aren't immigrants.
| 360 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:53:25pm |
re: #354 jaunte
Fox Nation explains what happened in Libya:
Ah!! Soros is running US Foreign Policy! We are all doomed!!
| 361 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:54:22pm |
re: #360 austin_blue
I picked that up from a tweet by someone called notalemming!
Protesting too much.
| 362 |
prairiefire Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:54:27pm |
re: #359 ggt
I think Chicagoland is the land of mustachioed men.
| 363 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:54:57pm |
re: #353 moderatelyradicalliberal
Ive often wondered being biracial is a different experience if you are of a mix other than black/white. Black/white has been THE racial fault line in this country for so long, but for other mixes I wonder. Especially, if it's when both parents belong to a minority group. Either way I say let people self identify the way they want and leave them be. Children can embrace all that they are and be prepared for people who won't like some of or all of what they are.
One of my Jewish bosses married a Brazilian woman of Japanese descent. He used to laugh that "my children will never look like me". They do favor their Asian mother, but I think it's more about the fact that they're good looking kids. Pretty kids (pretty adults, too) tend to fare better in the world.
| 364 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:55:06pm |
re: #354 jaunte
Fox Nation explains what happened in Libya:
So what gives? Do the wingers hate Gaddafi or not? I noticed the article leads to Whirled Nut Daily.
Yeah, Soros is behind Libya and Barrett Brown is behind Tunisia. Uh huh. It wasn't the people in those countries. Weirdos.
| 365 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:55:09pm |
re: #360 austin_blue
Ah!! Soros is running US Foreign Policy! We are all doomed!!
and the Koch brothers are dictating domestic economic policy.
Maybe we should put them in the ring and let them duke it out.
We could sell it on Pay-Per-View . . .
I see lots of money in licensed products. . .
(sorry capitalist at heart)
| 366 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:55:23pm |
re: #353 moderatelyradicalliberal
Ive often wondered being biracial is a different experience if you are of a mix other than black/white. Black/white has been THE racial fault line in this country for so long, but for other mixes I wonder. Especially, if it's when both parents belong to a minority group. Either way I say let people self identify the way they want and leave them be. Children can embrace all that they are and be prepared for people who won't like some of or all of what they are.
Brazilian Portuguese has a couple dozen terms for gradations of skin color, and a proverb: "Money makes the skin lighter". IIRC, someone showed that the proverb was correct--richer Brazilians applied the terms differently to skin shades than the poorer populations.
| 367 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:55:56pm |
re: #346 Decatur Deb
When we partied, the Anthro students used to ask questions like "What would the results of a complete melting-pot genetic boil down look like". A consensus answer, without much statistical work, was "Samoan". One day on campus I ran into two kids who had very Andean/Amazonian features, but the world's coolest skin--they were flat-out GOLD, so golden that it might have been a pathology. That would be a cool default human color.
Samoan? I don't think a complete genetic boil down would be that big. Maybe Polynesian coloring and features. But shorter.
| 368 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:56:41pm |
Is the right so wrapped up in money they believe it's the only motivator?
| 369 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:56:48pm |
re: #365 ggt
and the Koch brothers are dictating domestic economic policy.
Maybe we should put them in the ring and let them duke it out.
We could sell it on Pay-Per-View . . .
I see lots of money in licensed products. . .
(sorry capitalist at heart)
And in this corner weighing $2.4 billion dollars is the challenger...
| 370 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:56:56pm |
Haliburton Haliburton Haliburton Haliburton Haliburton Soros Soros Soros Soros Soros
| 371 |
sizzleRI Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:57:31pm |
re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, that was basically the concept behind the 'colored' designation in South Africa, no?
Some one pointed out a while back that we think of Halle Berry dating a white man as 'interracial', but no one thinks of the Obama's marriage like that, even though the percentages work out the same.
(Actually, I think the answer is that if you look like Halle Berry you can date whoever the hell you want to.)
That is why my mom loves using her. She has had more than one conversation that went that way, sadly. And with the men she feels like Halle Berry is really the end of the conversation.
I think its particularly irritating for my mother because she dated black men in the 70s and cannot believe she is still having this conversation.
| 372 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:57:50pm |
re: #366 Decatur Deb
Brazilian Portuguese has a couple dozen terms for gradations of skin color, and a proverb: "Money makes the skin lighter". IIRC, someone showed that the proverb was correct--richer Brazilians applied the terms differently to skin shades than the poorer populations.
South America has had, in many ways worse, history of racism. People were graded by range of ancestry. Starting with "White born in Europe" to "parent(s) born in Europe and ending with "Black born in Afrika".
Strange, IMHO. When read about it I got so confused I wondered how anyone knew their place in the social strata and how anyone negotiated it.
| 374 |
Spocomptonite Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:58:51pm |
re: #38 Stanley Sea
OTHERISM
I cannot imagine being subjected to this, as a normal person.
Wonder if he imagined that it would take hold so hard.
(keep Malia and Sasha off the computer)
By bringing up Obama's kids, I realized something.
I don't actually know their names.
Well, until you reminded me of it.
The Obamas have done a remarkable job keeping the first kids under the radar.
And on the other extreme are the Palin's... who ironically criticize their opponents/others for bringing their kids into the public light while thrusting their own into the light so much that their kids' are household names.
| 375 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:59:16pm |
| 376 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:59:28pm |
re: #355 prairiefire
We like to say that the outline looks like me, hairline, dimple in the chin, cheekbones, long legs, but the coloring is filled in darker/Asian.
My physical outline, dad's coloring to fill out the picture
I have my father's Irish face, for the most part, but the darker coloring from the Jewish side of the family.
The end result looks, interestingly enough, Spanish. I guess you mix a Celto-German blend with Semite, you get the same look whether it's twelve hundred years ago, or thirty-seven.
| 377 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:59:44pm |
re: #353 moderatelyradicalliberal
The "hispanic population" in LA also "grade" for or by skin color.
I'm not sure what the standards are, but darker skin color seems to be "bad".
I don't know why, when skin color is a genetic reaction to sun exposure.
| 378 |
austin_blue Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:00:00pm |
Okay, I have to hit the rack. Night all, sweet scaly dreams.
Thank you all for an entertaining evening. Love this joint.
| 379 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:00:09pm |
re: #352 austin_blue
In New Orleans, it was the grocery bag test. There have always been three distinct ethnic groups in the town;
Whites, Creole mixed race (quadroons, octaroons, &c, primarily Catholic), and black protestants (slave descendants).
The mixed race creoles were traditionally the middle class until after the Civil War. The black protestants have always been the underclass.
but the Creoles could always pass the grocery bag test (at least as light as a Schwegman's bag), and gave them a leg up in NO society. All of the "black" mayors of NO have been Creoles.Very small subset of America.
Yeah the Creoles are interesting. Some see themselves as separate from African-Americans, but others see themselves as a sub category (Beyone and Suzann Malveaux of CNN) of African-Americans.
That's' the thing about the black/biracial thing. Because of the one-drop rule African-Americans are so mixed that you can't really tell the difference. We has a lady from Nigeria stay as a guest in our house wen she came to America for a conference. She referred to my parents as a mixed couple because in Nigeria, my mother would not be considered black. She would be in a category called "coloured". It was hilarious. She really didn't understande how Americans determined who was black and who wasn't.
Also too, up until recently all of the mayors of Atlanta were very, very fair skinned black people.
| 380 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:00:18pm |
re: #356 marjoriemoon
Or recently a local Councilwoman in Miami got in serious hot water when she was chatting by the water cooler with some co-workers (a few Black) about how she sat in the N*r bleed section at the basketball stadium. Something like that. Anyway, she dropped the N bomb in front of African Americans without batting an eye.
The wha? I thought it was 'nosebleed' seats. Is that actually a euphemism?
| 381 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:00:27pm |
re: #358 moderatelyradicalliberal
Money buys you love?
| 382 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:00:30pm |
re: #377 Floral Giraffe
The "hispanic population" in LA also "grade" for or by skin color.
I'm not sure what the standards are, but darker skin color seems to be "bad".
I don't know why, when skin color is a genetic reaction to sun exposure.
Meanwhile, all the whites are tanning themselves until they get cancer.
Go figger.
| 383 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:01:28pm |
re: #367 SanFranciscoZionist
Samoan? I don't think a complete genetic boil down would be that big. Maybe Polynesian coloring and features. But shorter.
The Irish have to throw something into the mix.
| 384 |
Ojoe Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:01:52pm |
| 385 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:02:47pm |
re: #363 marjoriemoon
One of my Jewish bosses married a Brazilian woman of Japanese descent. He used to laugh that "my children will never look like me". They do favor their Asian mother, but I think it's more about the fact that they're good looking kids. Pretty kids (pretty adults, too) tend to fare better in the world.
If you aren't all that good looking, having children with someone of a different ethnicity might not be a bad idea. Widening the gene pool seems to chase the ugly away.
| 386 |
Spocomptonite Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:03:24pm |
re: #329 sizzleRI
My mom was just telling me about another nurse she worked with who said something along the lines of, "I'm not racist, I just think everyone should stay with their own kind." My mom has decided that she will no longer respond with anger. Now she just asked, but who would Halle Berry date? And since she's in Tennessee she also used Harold Ford, Jr.
Because seriously, beyond the racism, its the stupidity that hurts. Does every African-American need to break down their racial make-up, and then only align themselves with the same demographics? There's a dating website idea!
| 388 |
prairiefire Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:04:48pm |
Tim Reid's TV show, "Frank's Place" touched on a lot of racial issues. Geez, that was a funny show:
Night, lizards.
| 389 |
dragonfire1981 Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:05:42pm |
Ask yourselves this: If everything about Obama was the same EXCEPT his name was Tyrone Williams do you think everyone would be freaking out about where he was from?
It's not just the skin color, it's the foreign sounding name, put those two together and you get an easy to draw conclusion: Foreign name + plus dark skin = NOT a true American.
It's a load of crap of course, but that's how these people think. There was a guy who came into the store I work at a few weeks ago and, after some dark skinned people walked out, started to talk trash about how immigrants were ruining the country and they should all be deported.
Imagine his shock when I told him I, despite my white skin and lack of accent, was an immigrant and was seriously offended by what he just said.
First he said he wasn't talking about "immigrants like me" , but I challenged him on that too and he promptly backpedaled so fast the wheels fell off.
It's downright laughable when people say Obama doesn't understand America because he wasn't born here. Just where in the hell do you think the man has lived most of his life?
And beyond that, is there really much point into spending all this time and energy on something that is so pointless? The Supreme Court isn't going to magically change their mind and remove Obama from of us and nullify Obamacare anytime soon.
Remember, there has not been one SHRED of solid evidence that says Obama was not born in America, just some circumstantial evidence and some wild theories.
And beyond that, there are far more pressing issues right now for America than where the President may have been born. Instead of this birther crap, couldn't we maybe focus on getting people back to work and tackling that massive debt like other countries?
| 390 |
What, me worry? Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:05:50pm |
re: #385 moderatelyradicalliberal
If you aren't all that good looking, having children with someone of a different ethnicity might not be a bad idea. Widening the gene pool seems to chase the ugly away.
hehe And with that I gotta get.
I hope some day that we never have to have this conversation, although I enjoy hearing everyone's perspectives.
| 391 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:06:19pm |
re: #361 jaunte
I picked that up from a tweet by someone called notalemming!
Protesting too much.
The dopes over at Fox Nation think this is Bush bashing by Obama:
To be blunt, we went down that road in Iraq. Thanks to the extraordinary sacrifices of our troops and the determination of our diplomats, we are hopeful about Iraq's future. But regime change there took eight years, thousands of American and Iraqi lives, and nearly a trillion dollars. That is not something we can afford to repeat in Libya.
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
| 393 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:08:01pm |
re: #377 Floral Giraffe
The "hispanic population" in LA also "grade" for or by skin color.
I'm not sure what the standards are, but darker skin color seems to be "bad".
I don't know why, when skin color is a genetic reaction to sun exposure.
Darker means more indio blood, and darker also means you work outdoors, therefore getting tanned, therefore lower-class. Double whammy.
One of the families at one of my old schools (yeah, I have a lot of student stories tonight) moved to Manteca, but kept the kids in school in Oakland until the end of the year. I mentioned to the little girl that she was getting a tan, living inland, and she looked a little nervous and said, "Is that good?"
I told her I thought it looked great, but she should remember to wear her sunscreen so she wouldn't look leathery when she was my age.
| 394 |
b_snark (Fact-Checker Extraordinaire) Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:09:08pm |
'Night friends with scales.
| 395 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:09:46pm |
re: #382 marjoriemoon
Meanwhile, all the whites are tanning themselves until they get cancer.
Go figger.
I tan beautifully, but between living in Northern California, and all the skin cancer scares, not so much.
When we visit with relatives from Southern California, it's pretty funny. My mother and I are shades and shades lighter than the rest of her family, and it's all sun exposure.
| 396 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:10:04pm |
| 397 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:10:25pm |
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
It's getting pretty cold out. I think it's probably time to crash. Oh look, an apartment window someone left open just a crack. Perfect!
| 398 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:10:35pm |
re: #372 ggt
South America has had, in many ways worse, history of racism. People were graded by range of ancestry. Starting with "White born in Europe" to "parent(s) born in Europe and ending with "Black born in Afrika".
Strange, IMHO. When read about it I got so confused I wondered how anyone knew their place in the social strata and how anyone negotiated it.
Yeah this is true. Latin America is no racial utopia. You still basically see the affects of racism. Whites still have the overwhelming social and economic advantage. The one drop rule may be outdated, but it did one good thing: It made a cohesive group of people with the same problems and no way to avoid them if they didn't fight for changes. Americans of African decent fought a movement for equality that has not been duplicated anywhere else in countries with a history of slavery and race based discrimination. It's hard to fight such a movement when half of the people with African ancestry won't identify with it an think they are already better off because they can mark some other box.
| 399 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:11:10pm |
re: #385 moderatelyradicalliberal
If you aren't all that good looking, having children with someone of a different ethnicity might not be a bad idea. Widening the gene pool seems to chase the ugly away.
Mixed people do tend to be attractive. I'm not sure if there's a real reason for that, or if it's just a fresh look, but it does seem to happen a lot.
| 400 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:11:13pm |
re: #389 dragonfire1981
Ask yourselves this: If everything about Obama was the same EXCEPT his name was Tyrone Williams do you think everyone would be freaking out about where he was from?
So, it's my fualt that his name is what it is and I don't like his policies... so, that makes me racist, cause his name is Barak Obama... give me a break. You know how stupid that sounds?
| 401 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:12:09pm |
An interesting article that could be very useful for Japan;
Organisms capture radiation: black fungus
Melanin pigments in black fungi harness energy for metabolism by scattering/trapping photons and electrons from ionizing radiation."Melanins are unique biopolymers that protect living organisms against UV and ionizing radiation and extreme temperatures…For example, the melanotic fungus C. [Cladosporium] cladosporioides manifests radiotropism by growing in the direction of radioactive particles and this organism has become widely distributed in the areas surrounding Chernobyl since the nuclear accident in 1986 [7]. Both in the laboratory and in the field several other species of melanized fungi grew towards soil particles contaminated with different radionuclides, gradually engulfing and destroying those particles [35,36]…On the basis of these precedents and the results of this study we cautiously suggest that the ability of melanin to capture electromagnetic radiation combined with its remarkable oxidation-reduction properties may confer upon melanotic organisms the ability to harness radiation for metabolic energy." (Dadachova et al. 2007:10-11)
"Fungi are well-known for breaking down organic material, not creating it from scratch, as plants do. But a fungus that might break that mold has been discovered thriving at one of the most toxic sites in the world: the defunct Chernobyl nuclear reactor.
| 402 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:13:18pm |
re: #381 Floral Giraffe
Money buys you love?
No money buys you social freedom. Who's gonna tell Robert Fucking De Niro he can't date and marry black women if he wants to? Who's going to tell Robert Fucking De Niro that he can't do anything he wants to do for that matter?
| 403 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:13:33pm |
re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist
Mixed people do tend to be attractive. I'm not sure if there's a real reason for that, or if it's just a fresh look, but it does seem to happen a lot.
In the flower world it's called "hybrid vigor".
I'm not kidding!
| 405 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:14:06pm |
re: #400 Walter L. Newton
So, it's my fualt that his name is what it is and I don't like his policies... so, that makes me racist, cause his name is Barak Obama... give me a break. You know how stupid that sounds?
Did anyone say a word about his policies?
I've never heard you freak out about where he was from, Walter. You seem to accept that he's from Hawaii.
| 406 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:14:08pm |
re: #401 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
LOL!
There's a fungus among us!
| 407 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:14:49pm |
re: #405 SanFranciscoZionist
Did anyone say a word about his policies?
I've never heard you freak out about where he was from, Walter. You seem to accept that he's from Hawaii.
Double up ding, if possible!
| 408 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:14:51pm |
re: #402 moderatelyradicalliberal
No money buys you social freedom. Who's gonna tell Robert Fucking De Niro he can't date and marry black women if he wants to? Who's going to tell Robert Fucking De Niro that he can't do anything he wants to do for that matter?
Shouldn't that be Robert De Fucking Niro?
:)
| 409 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:15:11pm |
| 410 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:15:56pm |
re: #405 SanFranciscoZionist
Did anyone say a word about his policies?
I've never heard you freak out about where he was from, Walter. You seem to accept that he's from Hawaii.
Was I addressing YOU?
| 411 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:17:15pm |
re: #397 Stanley Sea
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
It's getting pretty cold out. I think it's probably time to crash. Oh look, an apartment window someone left open just a crack. Perfect!
Want to clear up a misconception. I'm not poisonous as has been reported. I'm venomous. Super venomous, but not poisonous so don't worry.
| 412 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:17:24pm |
re: #382 marjoriemoon
Meanwhile, all the whites are tanning themselves until they get cancer.
Go figger.
Speaking of tanning. My white genes (Scotch Irish) have resulted in me being susceptible to terrible sun burns. Other black people just put on some cocoa butter and call it a day. I on the other hand have to wear sunblock all freaking summer!
Fucking DNA! How does it work?
| 413 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:18:02pm |
Any body seen Ludwig... I'm surprised he hasn't been around weighing in on the nuclear stuff going on in Japan.
| 414 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:18:22pm |
re: #413 Walter L. Newton
Any body seen Ludwig... I'm surprised he hasn't been around weighing in on the nuclear stuff going on in Japan.
Or did I miss him?
| 415 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:18:24pm |
re: #411 SanFranciscoZionist
Want to clear up a misconception. I'm not poisonous as has been reported. I'm venomous. Super venomous, but not poisonous so don't worry.
Maybe they should set a honey badger loose to catch it.
| 416 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:18:39pm |
re: #410 Walter L. Newton
Was I addressing YOU?
I kind of thought that this was a party line, and that anyone could drop in.
| 417 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:18:43pm |
re: #413 Walter L. Newton
Did you search his nic?
It'll tell you what & when he's posted.
| 418 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:20:41pm |
re: #415 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Maybe they should set a honey badger loose to catch it.
I would say a honey badger and a mongoose, but the Honey Badger doesn't give a shit and he might fight the mongoose because he's too lazy to look for the snake.
| 419 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:20:48pm |
re: #415 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Maybe they should set a honey badger loose to catch it.
Noooo! The honey badger would eat the Bronx Zoo's Cobra!! He doesn't give a shit!!
| 420 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:21:54pm |
re: #419 SanFranciscoZionist
Nooo! The honey badger would eat the Bronx Zoo's Cobra!! He doesn't give a shit!!
Eh, he's a New Yorker.
| 421 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:22:08pm |
re: #377 Floral Giraffe
The "hispanic population" in LA also "grade" for or by skin color.
I'm not sure what the standards are, but darker skin color seems to be "bad".
I don't know why, when skin color is a genetic reaction to sun exposure.
That's cultural. The darker mestizo skin tones have always had a harder time of it because back in the caste-driven Spanish Mexico, they were the lower class. It was the more European criollos that had more legal rights and more social status.
| 424 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:25:30pm |
re: #411 SanFranciscoZionist
Want to clear up a misconception. I'm not poisonous as has been reported. I'm venomous. Super venomous, but not poisonous so don't worry.
my hugest lol in awhile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| 425 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:25:41pm |
re: #423 Gus 802
Oh the ragman, draws circles. Up and down the block...
Was that you looking for an ego the other night?
| 427 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:26:11pm |
re: #425 Walter L. Newton
Was that you looking for an ego the other night?
Walter. What the heck is wrong with you?
| 428 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:27:10pm |
re: #415 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Maybe they should set a honey badger loose to catch it.
KEEP FREE BRONX ZOO EGYPTIAN COBRA
our new thing, as it is.
| 429 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:27:57pm |
re: #402 moderatelyradicalliberal
No money buys you social freedom. Who's gonna tell Robert Fucking De Niro he can't date and marry black women if he wants to? Who's going to tell Robert Fucking De Niro that he can't do anything he wants to do for that matter?
It's the glorification of folks like Charlie Sheen, that make this attitude of our society, just so VERY WRONG.
| 430 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:29:22pm |
Geez, I take the dogs out and 57 comments!
What did I miss?
| 431 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:29:46pm |
| 432 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:30:18pm |
OT-Naughty Newt has said something very silly again! Why he even manages to contradict himself in one sentence.
“I have two grandchildren — Maggie is 11, Robert is 9,” Gingrich said at Cornerstone Church here. “I am convinced that if we do not decisively win the struggle over the nature of America, by the time they’re my age they will be in a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists and with no understanding of what it once meant to be an American.”
Do you think it's possible to tell him that this would be impossible?
| 433 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:30:37pm |
re: #430 ggt
The bronx zoo, Egyptian cobras & Walter.
See #431.
| 434 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:31:21pm |
re: #381 Floral Giraffe
Money buys you love?
"No, but it can buy you something that looks and feels just like it."
trivia test
| 435 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:31:41pm |
re: #433 Floral Giraffe
The bronx zoo, Egyptian cobras & Walter.
See #431.
Nothing, nothing and nothing... like I said.
| 436 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:32:18pm |
re: #431 Walter L. Newton
I assure you... nothing.
I do not want to post that pix of the two muppet curmudgeons. Cato is gone.
| 437 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:32:30pm |
Is it illegal to bronze a penny?
| 438 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:32:38pm |
re: #432 moderatelyradicalliberal
I think he meant to say that foreign radical Islamists would find it more easy to dominate America if it was a secular society, and not governed by people like the ones in Hagee's group.
| 439 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:32:42pm |
I want to watch this.
BLACK IN LATIN AMERICA | Interview w/ Henry Louis, Gates, Jr. | PBS
| 440 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:32:55pm |
re: #436 Stanley Sea
I do not want to post that pix of the two muppet curmudgeons. Cato is gone.
I don't give a shit, do what you want to do... was that a threat or something (shaking in my boots).
| 441 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:33:17pm |
| 442 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:34:12pm |
re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist
Mixed people do tend to be attractive. I'm not sure if there's a real reason for that, or if it's just a fresh look, but it does seem to happen a lot.
inbreeding is not a friend of beauty.
| 443 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:35:00pm |
If you polled the GOP with this question: "Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in Kenya?", the poll would look the same.
365/48.1%Yes
191/25.2%No
167/22%Leaning toward yes
25/3.3%Leaning toward no
11/1.4%Undecided
| 444 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:35:14pm |
re: #440 Walter L. Newton
I don't give a shit, do what you want to do... was that a threat or something (shaking in my boots).
BronxZoosCobra Bronx Zoo's Cobra
Dear NYC, Apples and snakes have gone together since the beginning.
| 445 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:35:20pm |
re: #401 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
An interesting article that could be very useful for Japan;
So the fungus among us are our friends?
| 446 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:36:11pm |
re: #445 ggt
So the fungus among us are our friends?
Don't trust them. That's what they want us to think.
| 447 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:36:21pm |
re: #445 ggt
If you find your north side covered in black fungus, move south.
| 448 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:36:29pm |
re: #409 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
It could be humongous
if it's a humongous fungus among us, can it still be our friend?
| 449 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:36:54pm |
It's snowing out again... did this yesterday evening about this time, all night, and left about an inch of snow on the roads, which for some reason, fucked up a whole lot of people on the mountain roads this morning.
I was driving home from work and I saw 1 slide off, one roll over and a 18 wheeler that t-boned a pick-em-up-truck... all in four miles.
Really strange... since we rarely have that many accidents up here if we get a foot of snow.
Snow was all gone by noon... looks like round two tonight. I hope the idiots try a little harder tomorrow morning not to run into each other.
| 450 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:37:12pm |
I think Walter has had a bad day.
don't take it out on us, Walter.
| 451 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:37:36pm |
re: #448 ggt
if it's a humongous fungus among us, can it still be our friend?
Yes, it could befriend us.
| 452 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:37:58pm |
Snowing... outside... cam right above the gym two miles from here...
| 453 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:38:35pm |
re: #448 ggt
if it's a humongous fungus among us, can it still be our friend?
Maybe, but extended exposure can cause numbness.
| 454 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:39:01pm |
So, I take it there are no lizards who are knowledgeable about forgery?
I'll remember that during my takeover of the world.
| 455 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:39:07pm |
| 456 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:39:18pm |
re: #453 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Maybe, but extended exposure can cause numbness.
We could kill it with a blunderbuss.
| 457 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:39:18pm |
re: #450 ggt
I think Walter has had a bad day.
don't take it out on us, Walter.
I've had a wonderful day. Got home this morning from the overnight shift, had some soup and watched the last of the snow... took a nap, had supper, watched a movie tonight (Cube Zero, family had never seen it) and getting ready for bed soon.
What's you problem?
| 458 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:39:38pm |
re: #454 EmmmieG
So, I take it there are no lizards who are knowledgeable about forgery?
I'll remember that during my takeover of the world.
What are you talking about?
| 459 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:39:55pm |
re: #439 Gus 802
I want to watch this.
BLACK IN LATIN AMERICA | Interview w/ Henry Louis, Gates, Jr. | PBS
[Video]
Oh me too. Thanks I had not heard about this one. Professor Gates does great documentaries.
| 460 |
Gus Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:40:50pm |
re: #459 moderatelyradicalliberal
Oh me too. Thanks I had not heard about this one. Professor Gates does great documentaries.
He does.
| 461 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:41:39pm |
re: #458 Walter L. Newton
What are you talking about?
My #437. Is it illegal to bronze a penny? I figured at least one lizard might know.
| 462 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:41:41pm |
re: #456 Killgore Trout
WHACK!
There, I hope that worked!
LOL @ Kragar!
They must have fungi all about in Kragaristan!
| 463 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:41:42pm |
re: #457 Walter L. Newton
I've had a wonderful day. Got home this morning from the overnight shift, had some soup and watched the last of the snow... took a nap, had supper, watched a movie tonight (Cube Zero, family had never seen it) and getting ready for bed soon.
What's you problem?
Too many to name and little you can do about it.
| 464 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:42:19pm |
re: #461 EmmmieG
It's only a penny.
Bronze that puppy up!
Do you think the Feds are going to come after you?
| 465 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:43:52pm |
re: #461 EmmmieG
My #437. Is it illegal to bronze a penny? I figured at least one lizard might know.
Well, if you can smash em in those funny smashing and stamping machines at museums and such, I don't know why you couldn't bronze it. As long as you were trying to fake another sort of currency that is bronze--like some ancient roman coin. To sell to unsuspecting neophyte coin collectors on ebay.
I don't think the Secret Service is going to worry about a penny. A nickel maybe.
| 466 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:44:04pm |
re: #464 Floral Giraffe
It's only a penny.
Bronze that puppy up!
Do you think the Feds are going to come after you?
Not really, but since that hypothetically might be tomorrow's lesson, I want to be able to tell the kids whether or not they are holding contraband.
| 467 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:44:19pm |
re: #462 Floral Giraffe
WHACK!
There, I hope that worked!
LOL @ Kragar!
They must have fungi all about in Kragaristan!
Mostly silver striped mushrooms
| 468 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:44:26pm |
re: #461 EmmmieG
My #437. Is it illegal to bronze a penny? I figured at least one lizard might know.
No... it is not illegal to bronze a penny... coins are motified all the time, for uses by magicians, there are coins that are lazer printed with colors highlighting the images on the coin, there is all sorts of modification of coins and paper money for a number of reasons.
The law states that you cannot deface or modify US currency for PURPOSED OF FRAUD. That's about it.
| 469 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:44:50pm |
re: #456 Killgore Trout
We could kill it with a blunderbuss.
Do you have a blunderbuss?
Enquiring minds want to know!
| 470 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:45:24pm |
Why do you want to bronze a penny?
wouldn't it take more than a pennies worth of bronze to do it?
| 471 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:45:52pm |
re: #469 Floral Giraffe
Do you have a blunderbuss?
Enquiring minds want to know!
PawnStars had one. Bet they could get you another if that one is sold.
| 472 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:46:23pm |
re: #468 Walter L. Newton
No... it is not illegal to bronze a penny... coins are motified all the time, for uses by magicians, there are coins that are lazer printed with colors highlighting the images on the coin, there is all sorts of modification of coins and paper money for a number of reasons.
The law states that you cannot deface or modify US currency for PURPOSED OF FRAUD. That's about it.
And how do I know this, because a good friend of mine in Texas, Presley Guitar (yes, that was his real name) was a manufacturer of various gimmicked coins for magicians, and that's where I first learned about the laws pertaining to modifying coins... from him
| 473 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:46:33pm |
re: #470 ggt
Why do you want to bronze a penny?
wouldn't it take more than a pennies worth of bronze to do it?
penny's worth?
computer is bad for my grammer skills.
| 474 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:46:43pm |
re: #470 ggt
Why do you want to bronze a penny?
wouldn't it take more than a pennies worth of bronze to do it?
It's a chemistry experiment for the kids. I'm showing them how to make an alloy.
Thanks for the answer, Walter.
| 475 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:46:47pm |
re: #466 EmmmieG
Probably illegal, it's "legal tender" after all.
Even if it's basically worthless.
Google search for "damaging US Currency".
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 476 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:48:50pm |
re: #474 EmmmieG
It's a chemistry experiment for the kids. I'm showing them how to make an alloy.
Thanks for the answer, Walter.
And there I go spelling his name wrong... Pressley Guitar (two "ss")
| 477 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:49:17pm |
re: #475 Floral Giraffe
Probably illegal, it's "legal tender" after all.
Even if it's basically worthless.
Google search for "damaging US Currency".
[Link: www.google.com...]
It's not... see my... re: #468 Walter L. Newton
| 478 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:49:58pm |
re: #475 Floral Giraffe
It appears that bronzing coins for the purpose of impressing 12 year olds is okay.
| 479 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:50:24pm |
re: #475 Floral Giraffe
Probably illegal, it's "legal tender" after all.
Even if it's basically worthless.
Google search for "damaging US Currency".
[Link: www.google.com...]
If you looked at the material you googled, you would have read this...
"From what I can see of the federal law on this question. defacing
money is *only* illegal if it is intended to defraud. Shaving metal
off coins to lower its weight is illegal. Replacing a picture of G.
Washington with one of A. Lincoln to try and pass a one off as a five
is illegal."
It's not illegal.
| 480 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:52:08pm |
Defacing money, iirc, that really made more sense when you could shave little bits off real silver coins and save-up the little bits to sell.
People deface money all the time. Like
wheresgeorge.com
| 481 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:53:23pm |
re: #478 EmmmieG
It appears that bronzing coins for the purpose of impressing 12 year olds is okay.
Here is the website of one of the oldest metal shops producing precision metal products for the magic industry... including modify currency... they've been in business over 60 years...
[Link: johnsonmagicproducts.com...]
| 482 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:54:29pm |
re: #477 Walter L. Newton
And you are an authority, because?
| 483 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:54:44pm |
re: #481 Walter L. Newton
Here is the website of one of the oldest metal shops producing precision metal products for the magic industry... including modify currency... they've been in business over 60 years...
[Link: johnsonmagicproducts.com...]
One of the kids is interested in prestidigitation. I'll have to show that to him.
| 484 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:56:42pm |
re: #482 Floral Giraffe
And you are an authority, because?
Because I have been a professional magician off and on for about 40 years, because I know my subject, because I provided you links that back up my statements, and because I was answering a question.
If you don't want to accept my answers, fine, not my problem. It's not my job to make you feel good... or right... or wrong.
| 485 |
goddamnedfrank Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:58:39pm |
"Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say."
| 486 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:59:05pm |
I'm getting an ad for Trump for President.
Dear Stars and Stripes, no. I'd rather vote for the hairpiece.
| 487 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 9:59:42pm |
re: #485 goddamnedfrank
"Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say."
if two bits are a quarter, what is one bit?
What is a bit anyway?
| 488 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:00:08pm |
re: #483 EmmmieG
One of the kids is interested in prestidigitation. I'll have to show that to him.
It's a fun hobby, and like a lot of hobbies, it can pay benefits if you pursue it with a passion. It also helps develop good social skills, getting up in front of people, talking to them, weaving stories... all good skills to have in business and life in general.
It can also build confidence and poise (depending on the style of magic one choses) and for those who tend toward the humorous, comedy magic can satisfy the more introverted types.
Magic... it's served me well.
| 489 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:00:17pm |
re: #486 EmmmieG
I'm getting an ad for Trump for President.
Dear Stars and Stripes, no. I'd rather vote for the hairpiece.
Bad hair does not trump bald.
| 490 |
goddamnedfrank Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:00:20pm |
| 491 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:00:43pm |
re: #487 ggt
I don't know, but I was always told I could get a "shave & a haircut for 2 bits".
LOL!
| 492 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:01:28pm |
re: #490 goddamnedfrank
A piece of eight WHATS?
///
| 493 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:01:41pm |
re: #483 EmmmieG
One of the kids is interested in prestidigitation. I'll have to show that to him.
P.s.
It can also be damn expensive.
| 494 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:02:14pm |
| 495 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:02:20pm |
re: #449 Walter L. Newton
It's snowing out again... did this yesterday evening about this time, all night, and left about an inch of snow on the roads, which for some reason, fucked up a whole lot of people on the mountain roads this morning.
I was driving home from work and I saw 1 slide off, one roll over and a 18 wheeler that t-boned a pick-em-up-truck... all in four miles.
Really strange... since we rarely have that many accidents up here if we get a foot of snow.
Snow was all gone by noon... looks like round two tonight. I hope the idiots try a little harder tomorrow morning not to run into each other.
Smells like a whole lot of black ice under the snow. Nasty, It's why I avoided your part of the nation when hauling 50,000 pound loads. There are better reasons to die.
| 496 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:02:20pm |
re: #437 EmmmieG
Is it illegal to bronze a penny?
It might not be legal tender afterward, but I think you can probably bronze one for personal use.
School project?
| 497 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:02:36pm |
| 498 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:03:41pm |
re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist
It might not be legal tender afterward, but I think you can probably bronze one for personal use.
School project?
sure, it's still only worth a penny as legal tender. I'm not sure anyone would accept it tho. You could probably exchange it at the bank. Like a torn dollar bill with both serial numbers on it.
| 499 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:03:55pm |
re: #493 Walter L. Newton
P.s.
It can also be damn expensive.
No worries. He's not one of my personal kids. He's one of the science class kids.
I've known him for years and love him to bits (not sure whether two or eight), but the expenses would be his parents' problem.
Mwahahaha.
| 500 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:04:37pm |
re: #498 ggt
sure, it's still only worth a penny as legal tender. I'm not sure anyone would accept it tho. You could probably exchange it at the bank. Like a torn dollar bill with both serial numbers on it.
I have a strong feeling that they'll hang on to them.
| 501 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:05:29pm |
re: #495 wlewisiii
Smells like a whole lot of black ice under the snow. Nasty, It's why I avoided your part of the nation when hauling 50,000 pound loads. There are better reasons to die.
Nope... roads were too warm to ice up, it was just about an inch of heavy slush, which for some reason, some of the folks in the area forgot how to drive on, since slush will tend to "pull" you... they were probably just driving too fast and the slush grabbed the wheels... it was pulling at me as I drove home, but I was well aware of what slush does and I wasn't speeding.
| 502 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:06:15pm |
| 503 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:07:48pm |
re: #492 Floral Giraffe
A piece of eight WHATS?
///
And I can't answer why this website is an authority on Spanish milled dollars...
| 504 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:08:20pm |
re: #502 SanFranciscoZionist
Eight reales.
Colonial America had a chronic problem with "hard currency" which was worth more.
Spanish money was frequently in circulation.
| 505 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:10:57pm |
re: #502 SanFranciscoZionist
Eight reales.
I have some 16th century Spanish silver pieces... otherwise know as "cobs." They are more like chunks of metal, sometimes over struck a number of times. As they wore down, they would take the cobs and strike it anew, and you could see the "ghost" of the previous strikings... they were really our first colonial coins, because the silver content was respected world wide...
| 506 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:12:51pm |
re: #505 Walter L. Newton
I have some 16th century Spanish silver pieces... otherwise know as "cobs." They are more like chunks of metal, sometimes over struck a number of times. As they wore down, they would take the cobs and strike it anew, and you could see the "ghost" of the previous strikings... they were really our first colonial coins, because the silver content was respected world wide...
(The Spanish cobs are on the left, the other coin is an early provincial US Connenecut (sp) coin)
| 507 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:13:12pm |
re: #502 SanFranciscoZionist
Eight reales.
one bit was 1/8th of a reale - the spanish reale was one of the most trusted currencies in the world at the time. you cut 'em up into little gold pie wedges to make change...
another was the joachimsthaler, or thaler, from which we get our word 'dollar'
| 508 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:15:03pm |
re: #507 engineer dog
one bit was 1/8th of a reale - the spanish reale was one of the most trusted currencies in the world at the time. you cut 'em up into little gold pie wedges to make change...
another was the joachimsthaler, or thaler, from which we get our word 'dollar'
Pieces of eight were never gold " The silver 8 reales coins was known as the Spanish dollar or peso (the famous "piece of eight")."
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 509 |
Stanghazi Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:15:05pm |
LOL Sarah Palin and John Bolton on Fox.
KNOWLEDGE squared
| 510 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:15:39pm |
re: #509 Stanley Sea
Well, it's something squared, for sure!
| 511 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:17:07pm |
the united states printed some paper currency in the colonial period and during the civil war, but they had a bad experience with it in the colonial period, and the civil war currency was just a temporary war measure. 'bank notes' were issued by banks, and you might get run out of town trying to pay people with them, since they became worthless if the bank went under. gen'l jackson and people like him called them 'shinplasters' and wouldn't touch em with a ten foot pole
i think it wasn't until the 1880s that the u.s. gummint began to issue paper money on a regular basis
| 512 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:17:40pm |
re: #508 Walter L. Newton
Pieces of eight were never gold " The silver 8 reales coins was known as the Spanish dollar or peso (the famous "piece of eight")."
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
silver, you're right - i'm sorry
| 513 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:18:24pm |
Night all!
there is a joke about getting a piece, but I'm not good at putting all that together . . .
:)
Have a great morning.
| 514 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:19:19pm |
re: #510 Floral Giraffe
Well, it's something squared, for sure!
The square of a fraction is smaller than the original. Just sayin'.
(I was listening to a podcast today in which the question was asked if the listener could think of an irrational number that, squared, was smaller than the original. The square root of one over seven would serve, wouldn't it?)
| 515 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:19:33pm |
In the U.S., the "bit" as a designation for money dates from the colonial period, when a common unit of currency was the Spanish milled dollar. As a way of making change, these dollars were cut into eight pie-slice shaped pieces which were called "bits". (For this reason, the whole coin was known as a "piece of eight.") Each eighth-dollar bit was then worth 12.5 cents, "two bits" was a quarter of a dollar (25 cents), "four bits" was a half-dollar (50 cents) and "six bits" was 75 cents. Because there was no one-bit coin, a dime (10 ¢) was sometimes called a short bit and 15¢ a long bit.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 516 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:19:48pm |
re: #511 engineer dog
the united states printed some paper currency in the colonial period and during the civil war, but they had a bad experience with it in the colonial period, and the civil war currency was just a temporary war measure. 'bank notes' were issued by banks, and you might get run out of town trying to pay people with them, since they became worthless if the bank went under. gen'l jackson and people like him called them 'shinplasters' and wouldn't touch em with a ten foot pole
i think it wasn't until the 1880s that the u.s. gummint began to issue paper money on a regular basis
"A United States Note, also known as a Legal Tender Note, was a type of paper money that was issued from 1862 to 1971 in the U.S. "
"Federal Reserve Notes are fiat currency, with the words "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" printed on each note. (See generally 31 U.S.C. § 5103.) They have replaced United States Notes, which were once issued by the Treasury Department."
| 517 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:21:07pm |
re: #516 Walter L. Newton
Life long numismatist... US currency in the past, currently ancient Greek and Roman coins, with a smattering of some other interests.
| 518 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:24:43pm |
I'm off to bed, but if I can figure it out, I may post pictures of the bronzed pennies tomorrow. They look like Chuck E Cheese tokens, to be honest. I'm not used to yellow coins.
(Husband is currently using the computer with the picture software to kill Batman's enemies.)
| 519 |
engineer cat Mon, Mar 28, 2011 10:26:02pm |
i like to collect paper money. some of my favorites are russian and german notes from the first quarter of the 20th century
i've got one of these elaborate german banknotes, for example...
| 520 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Mar 28, 2011 11:03:51pm |
Good night, all.
Sleep well, and TRY to play nicely!
| 521 |
Girth Mon, Mar 28, 2011 11:16:16pm |
re: #514 EmmmieG
The square of a fraction is smaller than the original. Just sayin'.
(I was listening to a podcast today in which the question was asked if the listener could think of an irrational number that, squared, was smaller than the original. The square root of one over seven would serve, wouldn't it?)
Yes it would. Pick any irrational number p where p > 1, then any fraction in the form
1 / p
would satisfy the requirement
( 1 / p )^2 < ( 1 / p )
Square root of seven, square root of two, pi, e, etc. all work.
| 522 |
CarolJ Mon, Mar 28, 2011 11:22:04pm |
re: #273 Lidane
And lets face it, McCain was 72 and not in the greatest of health, and from what we have seen since, not the greatest in mental clarity. If the stress didn't kill him outright, he could have been vulnerable to whatever manipulation the Tundra Twit and Taaaad could have come up with.
America has dodged a bullet indeed-probably a nuke when you consider the results.
| 523 |
simoom Mon, Mar 28, 2011 11:30:40pm |
Post-birtherism: Any rhetorical construction that acknowledges the president claims he was born in the United States, but leaves open the possibility that he's lying about it. Post-birthers may actually believe the truth, but refuse to make definitive statements in order to avoid offending actual birthers.
Ironic Post-birtherism: Making humorous or ironic references to the idea that the president was not born in the United States as an attempt to signal solidarity with or otherwise placate those who genuinely believe the president was not born in the United States.
Pseudo-birtherism: An umbrella term that encompasses all the various modes of belief that involve embracing fictional elements of the president's background, from the belief that he is a secret Muslim to the idea that he was raised in Kenya. Includes highbrow forms of birtherism like the "Kenyan anti-colonialism" thesis and theories that his name was legally changed to "Barry Soetero," as well as the idea that Obama's "real father" was one of the handful of random black celebrities you can name off the top of your head.
Birther Curious: The belief that, despite widespread availability of the president's birth certificate, that there are "lingering questions" that could be answered by him releasing the "long-form" version, even though Hawaii doesn't issue those. The birther-curious may acknowledge as a rhetorical concession that they "believe" the president was born in the U.S., but nevertheless argue that it's the president's fault that garden-variety birthers continue to exist.
| 524 |
thecommodore Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:20:13am |
re: #11 Killgore Trout
I voted "leaning yes". By itself it might just be another stupid conspiracy but in the context of the Obama witch doctor imagery, Obama hates white culture, Seekrit Moooslim, Black Panthers/DoJ, Kenyan Anti-colonialist, etc.. leads me to to think that racism is probably an element.
This is pretty much how I see it, too. Racism is an element for some people, but it's far from the primary motivator. There were conspiracy theories about Bill Clinton (The Clinton Circle of Death/Vince Foster, the fear that Clinton was going to declare martial law because of Y2K, Troopergate, and all sort of other lurid tales that bore little, if any resemblance to the truth) and the same kind of congnitive dissonance that had Clinton being either a diabolical Marxist or incompetent boob at the same time, and there were charlatans peddling this stuff and making money of it (Larry Nichols comes to mind). So for the birthers, while racism is a factor for some, the real culprit is ignorance and fear, upon which conspiracy peddlers thrive.
| 525 |
DrBoobooday Tue, Mar 29, 2011 4:31:07am |
Of course it is, whether it is consciously racist or not.
The citizenship of black people in this country has been questioned since the constitution was written, and they were deemed 2/3 of a person, and definitely not a citizen.
That which the right fears/dislikes, they label as inauthentic. RINOS, etc. But because Obama is black (and has a funny name) he is the most inauthentic of all. He's not even one of us. Not even a citizen.
They want to take their country back. From the blacks, the hippies, the RINOS, and apparently the teachers.
| 526 |
Stephen T. Tue, Mar 29, 2011 5:58:22am |
re: #42 Rightwingconspirator
What if someone from American Samoa, Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, the U.S. Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico runs? Might be interesting in a legal sense.
Anyone parent from the above places are U. S. citizens I believe, any child born to a U. S. citizen is automatically a U. S. citizen no matter where they are physically born. So I'd say that anyone running for President from any of the above places is eligible.
To be a citizen of the U. S. one must fit into any of the following categories: Be born to a U. S. citizen parent. (one or both). Be born in the U. S. claimed territory, (all fifty states and some, if not all, the territories quoted above. Marry a U. S. citizen. Become naturalized. The first two qualify one for "Naturally Born" the second two do not. Obama's mother was a citizen, Obama therefore is a "Naturally Born" citizen as well. End of story.
| 527 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:10:32am |
re: #526 Scarecrow237
Obama's mother was a citizen, Obama therefore is a "Naturally Born" citizen as well. End of story.
Care to cite any sources?
| 528 |
Randy W. Weeks Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:11:46am |
I sadly know a few birthers. Race place a huge part in their beliefs.
| 529 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:13:25am |
re: #526 Scarecrow237
I will also note that if it were so simple there wouldn't have been any controversy over John McCain's NBC status. And there was.
| 531 |
Stephen T. Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:44:19am |
re: #529 Sergey Romanov
Really? I've seen one article about McCain's eligibility, just one. How many pundits have been talking about Obama's birth, for how long, on how many blogs, in how many magazines?
| 532 |
What, me worry? Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:55:18am |
re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist
The wha? I thought it was 'nosebleed' seats. Is that actually a euphemism?
If you're still reading, hon... I got that all kinds of wrong LOL
It was a school board member in Ft. Lauderdale (Broward County). I heard the report last weekend and was trying to remember it.
[Link: www.miamiherald.com...]
Broward School Board member Ann Murray was asked to resign from her elected position Monday, accused of making several racial slurs in the past that she never apologized for. The request came at the beginning of the School Board meeting, in which ethics and leadership were discussed.
She didn't say "N*r bleed section" (as I said upthread), she said she was sitting in "N*r heaven" referring to the back of the stadium. Apparently, she's a fan of N bombs. Thank goodness she's being ousted.
| 533 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:58:00am |
re: #530 Scarecrow237
Please. Of course I mean authoritative legal sources, not journalistic articles.
Here, let me do your job for you.
[Link: nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...]
The weight of scholarly legal and historical opinion appears to support the notion that "natural born Citizen" means one who is entitled under the Constitution or laws of the United States to U.S. citizenship "at birth" or "by birth", including any child born "in" the United States (other than to foreign diplomats serving their country), the children of United States citizens born abroad, and those born abroad of one citizen parent who has met U.S. residency requirements.
That last part is crucial. So, as I said, it's just not as simple as you state. His mother merely being a US citizen does not qualify for the NBC status. She also should have met US residency reqs.
| 534 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 29, 2011 7:05:32am |
re: #531 Scarecrow237
Really? I've seen one article about McCain's eligibility, just one. How many pundits have been talking about Obama's birth, for how long, on how many blogs, in how many magazines?
Oh please. There was a _legal_ controversy. I don't care about punditry and whatnot. If there was no controversy, this report by Olson and Tribe would have been unnecessary from the start:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
If the matters were so simple there would have been no such article:
[Link: papers.ssrn.com...]
Or this one:
[Link: www.michiganlawreview.org...]
There would have been no need for S.Res.511:
[Link: thomas.loc.gov...]
Nor would there be a need for this act:
[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]
And look at the Snopes status:
[Link: www.snopes.com...]
| 535 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:05:19am |
BTW, in regard to the topic, I must say I lean to "yes", as in "birtherism is primarily a racist phenomenon because there wouldn't have been such a controversy in regard to a white candidate". But there is a significant minority of birthers who are simply stupid, uninformed morons. I mean, let's take a look at just one claim. They go on and on about the need for the "long form" certificate despite the birth certificate released by Obama being a sufficient certificate. The claim itself is not prima facie racist. It can be used to support a racist edifice of arguments, but then again, it's no more or less silly than any other CT, so a non-racist but silly person can also be sucked into being a birther - for the reason of silliness, not racism.
| 536 |
dallasdoc Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:11:02am |
are the birthers racists? most probably are.
but i submit that the birther movement stems from a refusal to accept that any Democrat can be president. look what they did to Clinton. that was not racism. these people have no respect for the democratic process, are willing to disenfranchise the poor and others who vote 'the wrong way.' have no respect for civil debate. they are more than racists... they are outright fascists.
| 537 |
aagcobb Tue, Mar 29, 2011 8:31:01am |
re: #536 dallasdoc
Yes, they attacked Clinton, but this particular method of attacking the President is a clear, loud dog-whistle to racists. That's clear from Newt and Huckabee bringing up the Mau-Mau, painting a picture which has frightened southern whites for centuries, of black savages bent on massacring white children and violating white women.
| 538 |
thecommodore Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:01:34pm |
re: #534 Sergey Romanov
Oh please. There was a _legal_ controversy. I don't care about punditry and whatnot. If there was no controversy, this report by Olson and Tribe would have been unnecessary from the start:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
If the matters were so simple there would have been no such article:
[Link: papers.ssrn.com...]
Or this one:
[Link: www.michiganlawreview.org...]
There would have been no need for S.Res.511:
[Link: thomas.loc.gov...]
Nor would there be a need for this act:
[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]
And look at the Snopes status:
[Link: www.snopes.com...]
At the end of the day, the McCain controversy was as baseless as the Obama one. There is no question that McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone at a Naval Hospital, but his parents were full US citizens, so he would qualify based on that alone. In addition, in the 1930's, Congress passed a law that granted US citizenship to persons born in the Canal Zone after a specific date, so McCain qualifies that way, too.
I don't have time to find the sources for each of those, but I can post them later if you want.
By the way, that Senate Resolution was non-binding. It was a ceremonial effort by Democrats (Claire McCaskill introduced it, and four of its five co-sponsers were Democrats - including ironically enough, Barack Obama) to put the non-existent question of McCain's eligibility to rest.
What do you think the chances are Republicans would do the same for Obama? Do I have a better chance of having sex with Jessica Alba? I think so. lol
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