Deniers’ Review Supports Scientific Consensus on Global Warming - Right Wing Sad

Imagine that - scientists weren’t lying after all
Environment • Views: 35,681

A team of UC Berkeley physicists and statisticians led by global warming “skeptic” Richard Muller launched a project recently to analyze the scientific data on temperature trends. They were apparently fairly certain they’d find evidence to prove that climate change is not happening.

Imagine my surprise to discover that the initial results of their project fully support the scientific consenus.

Actually, I’m not the least bit surprised by the findings. But I am surprised that Muller and his team, financed by far right oil billionaires Charles and David Koch, are being honest about it.

The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project was launched by physics professor Richard Muller, a longtime critic of government-led climate studies, to address what he called “the legitimate concerns” of skeptics who believe that global warming is exaggerated.

But Muller unexpectedly told a congressional hearing last week that the work of the three principal groups that have analyzed the temperature trends underlying climate science is “excellent…. We see a global warming trend that is very similar to that previously reported by the other groups.” …

Muller said his group was surprised by its findings, but he cautioned that the initial assessment is based on only 2% of the 1.6 billion measurements that will eventually be examined.

The Berkeley project’s biggest private backer, at $150,000, is the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. Oil billionaires Charles and David Koch are the nation’s most prominent funders of efforts to prevent curbs on the burning of fossil fuels, the largest contributor to planet-warming greenhouse gases.

Global warming denier Anthony Watts, the hero of the ignorant anti-science right wing, is greatly disappointed in reality. Again.

But conservative critics who had expected Muller’s group to demonstrate a bias among climate scientists reacted with disappointment.

Anthony Watts, a former TV weatherman who runs the skeptic blog wattsupwiththat.com, wrote that the Berkeley group is releasing results that are not “fully working and debugged yet…. But, post normal science political theater is like that.”

Expect them to now start smearing and attacking their former ally Richard Muller.

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334 comments
1 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:16:49am

They will attack him or do what they’ve been doing: ignore what the evidence proves.

2 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:16:51am

Dammit reality, can’t you conform just once?
/

3 Bob Dillon  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:17:09am

Screw the opinions on the data. Anyone who has traveled this planet over the past 40-50 years cannot help but see with their own eyes that: a.) pollution is killing things and b.) ice is melting very rapidly.

4 garhighway  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:20:22am

The commenters on Watt’s website are calling Muller a “warmist”.

How quick they turn.

Watts also says he will have a peer-reviewed paper out on this subject any day now.

That’ll be a hoot.

5 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:23:44am
Expect them to now start smearing and attacking Richard Muller.

Oh, it’s already starting. From the article you linked in the first place, we get:

Anthony Watts, a former TV weatherman who runs the skeptic blog WattsUpWithThat.com, wrote that the Berkeley group is releasing results that are not “fully working and debugged yet…. But, post normal science political theater is like that.”
6 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:23:45am

re: #4 garhighway

The commenters on Watt’s website are calling Muller a “warmist”.

How quick they turn.

Watts also says he will have a peer-reviewed paper out on this subject any day now.

That’ll be a hoot.

These people are just stone cold stupid.

7 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:24:22am

The biggest thing here is that a group (that by all measures would be skeptical and biased against the data) has come out in agreement with the results and conclusions of the original consensus.

Ultimately it’ll never “prove” global warming is man-made to people who refuse to accept it. But it does give more ammo to the critical middle that something is happening, and humanity’s actions are at least partially responsible for it.

That’s huge in the court of public opinion. And serious kudos to them for going ahead and admitting that they were wrong about any human bias on the results.

8 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:25:19am

Science is stupid.

9 beartiger  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:26:09am

I’m sure Muller is kicking himself for not figuring out a way to press harder on the scale with his thumb so that the results turned out “right” for the denialists.

10 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:26:33am

Possible explanations:

-Soros managed to outbid the Kochs for this crew’s services.
-Muller realized he can’t get a date with Megyn Kelly.
-SEIU operatives employed the National Academy of Sciences have come up with incriminating photos of the Muller team, possibly involving a Halloween party, a vat of jello, and 2 Shetland ponies, one of them under-age.

Am I ready for my own Fox show yet?

11 beartiger  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:27:17am

re: #8 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Science is stupid.

He says, typing on a computer.

12 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:27:23am

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

Possible explanations:

-Soros managed to outbid the Kochs for this crew’s services.
-Muller realized he can’t get a date with Megyn Kelly.
-SEIU operatives employed the National Academy of Sciences have come up with incriminating photos of the Muller team, possibly involving a Halloween party, a vat of jello, and 2 Shetland ponies, one of them under-age.

Am I ready for my own Fox show yet?

Post that at Free Republic and you will get a bunch of folks to actually believe it.

13 jamesfirecat  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:28:15am

This sort of thing is why the people who say science is just another religion are so very, very, wrong.

14 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:28:33am

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

Possible explanations:

-Soros managed to outbid the Kochs for this crew’s services.
-Muller realized he can’t get a date with Megyn Kelly.
-SEIU operatives employed the National Academy of Sciences have come up with incriminating photos of the Muller team, possibly involving a Halloween party, a vat of jello, and 2 Shetland ponies, one of them under-age.

Am I ready for my own Fox show yet?

You have to work in the word “socialism” and something about “keeping labor costs down”.

15 jamesfirecat  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:29:54am

re: #14 negativ

You have to work in the word “socialism” and something about “keeping labor costs down”.

Business friendly environment!

16 BishopX  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:30:25am

Muller’s website is a real hoot. Bad design, very little content and no organization.

17 zora  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:33:32am

re: #10 Shiplord Kirel

Possible explanations:

-Soros managed to outbid the Kochs for this crew’s services.
-Muller realized he can’t get a date with Megyn Kelly.
-SEIU operatives employed the National Academy of Sciences have come up with incriminating photos of the Muller team, possibly involving a Halloween party, a vat of jello, and 2 Shetland ponies, one of them under-age.

Am I ready for my own Fox show yet?

get this man a chalkboard.

18 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:34:09am

re: #16 BishopX

Muller’s website is a real hoot. Bad design, very little content and no organization.

needs a midi of the 2001 theme.

[Link: free-loops.com…]

19 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:34:12am

I actually figure that those who think that the global warming figures were fudged (or doesn’t exist, or isn’t due to man) will latch on to Muller’s claim that 2% of the 1.6 billion readings were so far studied.

But attacking Muller because he admitted that his study confirms what other climate studies and scientists have found? That’s just how the right wing rolls these days.

Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts. /

20 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:36:21am
21 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:39:05am

See my link. It’s up on a “page”. World-sized dust bowl probable.
Me, I won’t live to see the worst of it. You—-If you live, and it’s an iffy IF, you probably will see enough of it to be convinced it’s serious.

The Japan reactor containment failure is no reason to back off from nuclear power. It is, I guess, a reason to back away from the beach when siting them.

There are roughly 30 thousand dead from the tsunami. To this, we may eventually add a few hundred of the heroic workers who have done what was humanly possible to contain the consequences of the damage done by the tsunami to the reactors. In a world that is not safe, the risks that attend nuclear power are no worse than the risks that attend coal mining, while the risks of not doing much of anything about AGW are intolerable.

22 iossarian  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:40:19am

re: #19 lawhawk

I actually figure that those who think that the global warming figures were fudged (or doesn’t exist, or isn’t due to man) will latch on to Muller’s claim that 2% of the 1.6 billion readings were so far studied.
/

That was my first thought too. I assume they picked a sample of readings that specifically corresponded to a particular hypothesis or set of hypotheses they were testing, but that isn’t going to have much traction with the dunderheads who see “2%” and think they’re just being lazy.

23 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:42:07am

re: #21 lostlakehiker

See my link. It’s up on a “page”. World-sized dust bowl probable.
Me, I won’t live to see the worst of it. You—-If you live, and it’s an iffy IF, you probably will see enough of it to be convinced it’s serious.

The Japan reactor containment failure is no reason to back off from nuclear power. It is, I guess, a reason to back away from the beach when siting them.

There are roughly 30 thousand dead from the tsunami. To this, we may eventually add a few hundred of the heroic workers who have done what was humanly possible to contain the consequences of the damage done by the tsunami to the reactors. In a world that is not safe, the risks that attend nuclear power are no worse than the risks that attend coal mining, while the risks of not doing much of anything about AGW are intolerable.

And how much of American corn is being burned up in cars?

24 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:42:25am

Can someone explain to me when environmental issues became partisan? I really don’t understand this one. Richard Nixon created the EPA for goodness sake. Is it just because Al Gore is fat?

25 allegro  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:44:07am

re: #24 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think it’s more of a hippie thing.

26 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:47:27am

re: #25 allegro

I think it’s more of a hippie thing.

Oh, you mean hippie punching? How could I forget the joy of hippie punching?

27 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:47:54am

re: #24 moderatelyradicalliberal

Can someone explain to me when environmental issues became partisan? I really don’t understand this one. Richard Nixon created the EPA for goodness sake. Is it just because Al Gore is fat?

because in the minds of the conservative/Republican movement “Environmental Issues” has become a code phrase for “Anti Business” and “Anti American”.

Just take a look at the efforts by the new Pennsylvanian governor to undermine any state Environmental efforts.

28 BishopX  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:48:31am

re: #23 Alouette

Much less than is being burned in cows. If we want to get serious about ending food shortages, a re-imagining of the American cattle industry is more necessary than the stopping the current levels of ethanol production.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t stop using ethanol, especially corn derived ethanol. We should, it’s stupid wasteful and unsustainable.

29 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:48:42am

re: #27 bloodstar

because in the minds of the conservative/Republican movement “Environmental Issues” has become a code phrase for “Anti Business” and “Anti American”.

Just take a look at the efforts by the new Pennsylvanian governor to undermine any state Environmental efforts.

Some also think God wouldn’t let us harm the earth in such a manner.
:/

30 allegro  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:49:18am

re: #26 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh, you mean hippie punching? How could I forget the joy of hippie punching?

Yeah, that. So much of the ideology of the GOP is purely oppositional. If the hippies/liberals/commies like it, it’s automatically evil… or something.

31 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:51:38am

re: #30 allegro

Yeah, that. So much of the ideology of the GOP is purely oppositional. If the hippies/liberals/commies like it, it’s automatically evil… or something.

So like Nixon created the EPA, liberals were like that’s an awesome idea and so conservatives had to hate the EPA. They have been changing their minds about their own ideas once liberals embraced them for a long time. Maybe the POTUS shouldn’t take it so personally that they are doing it to him now too?

32 allegro  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:56:15am

re: #31 moderatelyradicalliberal

So like Nixon created the EPA, liberals were like that’s an awesome idea and so conservatives had to hate the EPA. They have been changing their minds about their own ideas once liberals embraced them for a long time. Maybe the POTUS shouldn’t take it so personally that they are doing it to him now too?

Exactly. The health care reform act that was passed last year was less progressive than health care reform that had been previously proposed and supported by conservatives 20 years ago and it’s about exactly Republican Romney’s thing in MA. Now it’s teh soshulism and death to America. The immaturity of it just reeks.

Somehow I don’t think Obama takes too much of anything personally. He seems to have a hide of steel.

33 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:57:46am

re: #27 bloodstar

because in the minds of the conservative/Republican movement “Environmental Issues” has become a code phrase for “Anti Business” and “Anti American”.

Just take a look at the efforts by the new Pennsylvanian governor to undermine any state Environmental efforts.

No, no, no. It’s a code phrase for anti-business, and anti-business IS anti-American.

Actually, it’s not even a code phrase. The opponents will tell you that the /real/ intent of these restrictions is to strangle US production - to let everyone else increase at our expense.

34 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:58:25am

The quote from the charlatan Watts particularly interests me…

“Post normal scientific political theater.”

The way science works is that the data is reviewed carefully by independent observers. The only thing post normal and political theater about this is the right’s fervent desire to keep spreading ignorance and to not accept multiple dozens of reviews of the data set they are picking on while ignoring the thousands of data sets that are also published and also tell the same story.

This really is not hard.

It takes the stupidity of a right winger to truly miss just how simple this is. So let’s break it down:

1. Ice melts when it gets hot.

I know this is hard for republicans to fathom given their ideological stances, but it really does happen.

1a. If you see vast amounts of ice melting - it is probably getting warmer…

Really there is a little known quantum mechanical effect where ice crystals decide to suicide, and they spontaneously melt… but right wing ice psychologists have not been able to determine what has made all those tones of ices so depressed.

2. Energy is conserved. So when you trap more of the sun’s energy, well it warms stuff up.

This is a thermodynamic argument. Republicans love thermodynamics - except correct thermodynamics. Remember how evolution couldn’t happen or some such crap because they don’t get the Second Law… but hey that sounds more impressive to other rubes than derp!

2a. it is warmer in the sun than in the shade. So ummm yeah that sun thing really is heating us up…

Wingnuts have a “gorgeous” “thermodynamic argument” that the Earth can not be warmed by the first Law because it is cold in space or something. This one actually sounds worse than derp!

2b. putting on a parka on a hot sunny day is bad.

2c. This is all about how fast you loose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

3. CO2 really is a GHG. We’ve known this sine 1896! The GOP payed for all sorts of IR missiles that also really nailed down exactly what the IR bands of CO2 are. through the 50’s and 60’s. But then again we all know how much the GOP hates people in uniform who don’t say what the corporate masters want.

4. Feedbacks are real. No really. Try putting the speaker by the microphone! There is a similar thing here with ice loss, methane release, death of phytoplankton etc… This problem speeds up badly. It does not slow down. The only thing to do is take the mic away from the speaker.

But the GOP hates that because it would mean ruffling the feathers of various oil and coal barons and sheiks. And to think that the GOP has a periodic faux outrage about a Dem “bowing” to the Saudis, while the GOP actually actively sucks their cocks!

35 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:59:53am

re: #32 allegro

Exactly. The health care reform act that was passed last year was less progressive than health care reform that had been previously proposed and supported by conservatives 20 years ago and it’s about exactly Republican Romney’s thing in MA. Now it’s teh soshulism and death to America. The immaturity of it just reeks.

Somehow I don’t think Obama takes too much of anything personally. He seems to have a hide of steel.

Yeah, His wife says if you cut him open, there would be a little Buddha inside. I must admit, his temperament is a big reason I voted for him.

36 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:59:59am

PIMF


The quote from the charlatan Watts particularly interests me…

“Post normal scientific political theater.”

The way science works is that the data is reviewed carefully by independent observers. The only thing post normal and political theater about this is the right’s fervent desire to keep spreading ignorance and to not accept multiple dozens of reviews of the data set they are picking on while ignoring the thousands of data sets that are also published and also tell the same story.

This really is not hard.

It takes the stupidity of a right winger to truly miss just how simple this is. So let’s break it down:

1. Ice melts when it gets hot.

I know this is hard for republicans to fathom given their ideological stances, but it really does happen.

1a. If you see vast amounts of ice melting - it is probably getting warmer…

Really there is a little known quantum mechanical effect where ice crystals decide to suicide, and they spontaneously melt… but right wing ice psychologists have not been able to determine what has made all those tonnes of ice so depressed. Maybe it’s that M*A*S*H* went off the air…

2. Energy is conserved. So when you trap more of the sun’s energy, well it warms stuff up.

This is a thermodynamic argument. Republicans love thermodynamics - except correct thermodynamics. Remember how evolution couldn’t happen or some such crap because they don’t get the Second Law… but hey that sounds more impressive to other rubes than derp!

2a. it is warmer in the sun than in the shade. So ummm yeah that sun thing really is heating us up…

Wingnuts have a “gorgeous” “thermodynamic argument” that the Earth can not be warmed by the first Law because it is cold in space or something. This one actually sounds worse than derp!

2b. putting on a parka on a hot sunny day is bad.

2c. This is all about how fast you loose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

3. CO2 really is a GHG. We’ve known this sine 1896! The GOP payed for all sorts of IR missiles that also really nailed down exactly what the IR bands of CO2 are. through the 50’s and 60’s. But then again we all know how much the GOP hates people in uniform who don’t say what the corporate masters want.

4. Feedbacks are real. No really. Try putting the speaker by the microphone! There is a similar thing here with ice loss, methane release, death of phytoplankton etc… This problem speeds up badly. It does not slow down. The only thing to do is take the mic away from the speaker.

But the GOP hates that because it would mean ruffling the feathers of various oil and coal barons and sheiks. And to think that the GOP has a periodic faux outrage about a Dem “bowing” to the Saudis, while the GOP actually actively sucks their cocks!

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:01:20am

I assume that Muller is an honest scientist who’s not going to hide data that disagrees with his previous beliefs.

I also assume that if he’s working for UC Berkeley, he realizes that giving that up by getting caught fucking with the data would be pretty stupid.

38 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:02:28am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

I assume that Muller is an honest scientist who’s not going to hide data that disagrees with his previous beliefs.

I also assume that if he’s working for UC Berkeley, he realizes that giving that up by getting caught fucking with the data would be pretty stupid.

That is likely correct. We”ll see if he cracks under pressure though from his former and pissed off masters.

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:02:54am

re: #9 beartiger

I’m sure Muller is kicking himself for not figuring out a way to press harder on the scale with his thumb so that the results turned out “right” for the denialists.

Like I say, sounds like he’s a more honest man than those who wanted to use his work to prove their point.

40 HAL2010  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:06:11am

Eh, whoops?

41 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:06:40am

The difference between a real scientist and a quack is the real one will revise his opinion when an experiment works out differently than expected.

42 elizajane  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:07:07am

The problem here stands out a mile: he is a scientist from BERKELEY!!

His whole team are just a bunch of hippie cranks who would mess around with their data just to put a thumb in the eye of God-fearing folk who know that the Good Lord controls our planet and would not let anything bad happen to its climate.

The very fact that he is associated with this bastion of liberalism throws Muller’s own credibility into doubt.

////

(I might have a tiny conflict of interest here…)

43 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:07:39am

re: #6 moderatelyradicalliberal

These people are just stone cold stupid.

There is strong evidence for global human brain warming over the past ~10,000 years. However, locally some brains have stayed the same or even cooled.

44 Four More Tears  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:07:55am

re: #36 ludwigvanquixote


Wingnuts have a “gorgeous” “thermodynamic argument” that the Earth can not be warmed by the first Law because it is cold in space or something. This one actually sounds worse than derp!

Youtube Video
45 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:08:29am

re: #42 elizajane

The problem here stands out a mile: he is a scientist from BERKELEY!!

His whole team are just a bunch of hippie cranks who would mess around with their data just to put a thumb in the eye of God-fearing folk who know that the Good Lord controls our planet and would not let anything bad happen to its climate.

The very fact that he is associated with this bastion of liberalism throws Muller’s own credibility into doubt.

///

(I might have a tiny conflict of interest here…)

And if he had produced the results they wanted, they would have said “Hey, we even got the hippies at Berkeley to agree with us.”

46 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:11:29am

re: #44 JasonA

[Video]

That was beautiful.

Ohh and I expanded that post and made a page of it.

47 Four More Tears  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:12:45am

re: #46 ludwigvanquixote

That was beautiful.

Ohh and I expanded that post and made a page of it.

There really isn’t any way to argue with someone stuck on that circle of stupid. It’s pointless.

48 iossarian  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:13:40am

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And if he had produced the results they wanted, they would have said “Hey, we even got the hippies at Berkeley to agree with us.”


I am waiting for the peer reviewed article from the Physics Department of Bob Jones University with bated breath.

Still waiting…

49 General Nimrod Bodfish  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:13:46am

Even if you don’t believe in global warming, there’s plenty of reasons why we need to go away from fossil fuels. Of course, the GOP’s corporate masters don’t want anything to get in the way of the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, regardless of the truth of global warming or the deadly side effects of fossil fuel usage.

50 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:13:46am

Brave internet freedom fighters target Sony

Cybervigilante group Anonymous began attacking Sony-branded Web sites on Saturday to protest Sony’s lawsuits against PlayStation 3 hackers.

“Congratulations! You are now receiving the attention of Anonymous,” Anonymous wrote in an open letter on its Web site. “Your recent legal actions against fellow Internet citizens, GeoHot and Graf_Chokolo have been deemed an unforgivable offense against free speech and Internet freedom, primary sources of free lulz (and you know how we feel about lulz.).”

At the beginning of the year Sony sued George “GeoHot” Hotz, 23, and Alexander “graf_chokolo” Egorenkov for tinkering with the PlayStation 3 and publishing online their exploits.

Sony sued Hotz in January for exposing the root key to a PS3, allowing users to develop and play homebrew games. His case has been well-documented, partly due to Hotz’ appearances on talk shows and homemade anti-Sony rap videos posted on YouTube. Unphased by consumer anger, Sony recently received permission to subpoena PayPal for Hotz’ records.

51 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:14:01am

re: #47 JasonA

There really isn’t any way to argue with someone stuck on that circle of stupid. It’s pointless.

Well you can point out just how stupid they are. It sometimes makes them think.

Really, the ice melts when it gets hot argument pisses them off. OHHH that just reminded me of some things to add to my post!

52 Funky_Gibbon  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:14:48am

Fair play to Muller for actually being honest (for once) about what his group have found rather than quietly throwing them down a well and hoping nobody mentioned them.

53 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:17:55am

re: #47 JasonA

There really isn’t any way to argue with someone stuck on that circle of stupid. It’s pointless.

I have a solution

Image: SLAP.gif

54 calochortus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:19:49am

I have no idea what “post normal scientific political theater” is. I think it needed some punctuation or something.

I confess that way back, say 30 or 35 years ago, I wasn’t overly concerned about melting glaciers, etc. as we are obviously in an interglacial period. Guess what? I saw strong evidence that this was not natural after all. I changed my mind.

In the immortal words of John Maynard Keynes: “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do sir?”

55 Four More Tears  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:21:33am

re: #54 calochortus

“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do sir?”

Yell louder!

56 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:21:55am

re: #54 calochortus

I have no idea what “post normal scientific political theater” is. I think it needed some punctuation or something.

I confess that way back, say 30 or 35 years ago, I wasn’t overly concerned about melting glaciers, etc. as we are obviously in an interglacial period. Guess what? I saw strong evidence that this was not natural after all. I changed my mind.

In the immortal words of John Maynard Keynes: “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do sir?”

It is a standard RW tactic. If you call an argument a name, you can dismiss it without ever having to think about it.

57 surlymarv  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:24:27am

Wow, I have really been out of the loop concerning Muller. I was shocked to read this article and see his name as he was one of my favorite Physics professors at Cal. He was always an opinionated and passionate teacher. He also was a bit of a self-promoter, although not necessarily without merit because he’s quite brilliant. I’m guessing this might be what has led him to take money from the energy/denier sector. I find it very hard to believe that he would not be objective when looking at the actual climate studies. It’s one thing to pontificate when you have no real idea of the quality of research being done because you are an astrophysicist (or worse a TV weather man) and quite another to actually focus on the research itself.

58 calochortus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:27:08am

re: #55 JasonA

Yell louder!

Always helpful.

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:27:20am

OK the page has grown some more… I feel so much better giving some science explanations that even wingnuts can understand. Normally, I write science for adults, but this one was written for the kids from the GOP on the short bus.

60 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:29:16am

re: #7 bloodstar

The biggest thing here is that a group (that by all measures would be skeptical and biased against the data) has come out in agreement with the results and conclusions of the original consensus.

Ultimately it’ll never “prove” global warming is man-made to people who refuse to accept it. But it does give more ammo to the critical middle that something is happening, and humanity’s actions are at least partially responsible for it.

That’s huge in the court of public opinion. And serious kudos to them for going ahead and admitting that they were wrong about any human bias on the results.

Reminds me of the book by a liberal University professor Alan Weinstein, who set out to prove that Alger Hiss had been smeared and that Whittaker Chambers had framed him.

The historian, very much to his surprise, discovered that the truth lay elsewhere. And then, knowing he’d pay a personal and professional price for having “changed sides”, he published his findings.
Weinstein, Allen (1997). Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case (2d rev. ed.). Knopf. ISBN 0-394-49546-2

The man who starts out convinced of A, belongs to a “tribe” that requires he believe A, finds out that A is false, and reports this with proof, is judged an apostate by his tribe, and a hero by history.

61 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:30:03am

re: #35 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, His wife says if you cut him open, there would be a little Buddha inside. I must admit, his temperament is a big reason I voted for him.

Don’t say that out loud, all we need is for him to be a Muslim Buddhist now.

62 recusancy  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:30:45am

re: #57 surlymarv

Wow, I have really been out of the loop concerning Muller. I was shocked to read this article and see his name as he was one of my favorite Physics professors at Cal. He was always an opinionated and passionate teacher. He also was a bit of a self-promoter, although not necessarily without merit because he’s quite brilliant. I’m guessing this might be what has led him to take money from the energy/denier sector. I find it very hard to believe that he would not be objective when looking at the actual climate studies. It’s one thing to pontificate when you have no real idea of the quality of research being done because you are an astrophysicist (or worse a TV weather man) and quite another to actually focus on the research itself.

Well, apparently he appears on Glenn Beck too.

64 recusancy  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:32:35am

re: #35 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, His wife says if you cut him open, there would be a little Buddha inside. I must admit, his temperament is a big reason I voted for him.

Haha… Did she really say that? Do you have a link?

65 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:36:06am

re: #63 Charles

The stalker who tried to insert false information based on a Tim Blair post is back editing the LGF Wikipedia entry, and he’s watching this site obsessively.

Wow. I just took a very brief look. So much time spend psychoanalyzing Charles. One would think people have nothing better to do that sit in front of their computer and rant all day and night.

Come to think of it, I have laundry to fold.. BBL

66 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:36:28am

PIMF!! the obvious

67 Four More Tears  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:36:42am

re: #59 LudwigVanQuixote

OK the page has grown some more… I feel so much better giving some science explanations that even wingnuts can understand. Normally, I write science for adults, but this one was written for the kids from the GOP on the short bus.

Whoa! Getting a little x-rated in that page, no?

68 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:37:43am

re: #63 Charles

The stalker who tried to insert false information based on a Tim Blair post is back editing the LGF Wikipedia entry, and he’s watching this site obsessively.

Some people have way too much time on their hands.

69 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:37:55am

re: #67 JasonA

Whoa! Getting a little x-rated in that page, no?

Actually that was the toned down version to keep it family. I was going to make a reference to ATM and picking sand out of their bottoms.

70 recusancy  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:38:04am

As Krugman says:
“So on second thought, I was wrong when I said that the joke was on the G.O.P.; actually, the joke is on the human race.”

71 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:38:25am

re: #65 Naso Tang

Wow. I just took a very brief look. So much time spend psychoanalyzing Charles. One would think people have nothing better to do that sit in front of their computer and rant all day and night.

Come to think of it, I have laundry to fold.. BBL

He was told in no uncertain terms that he would not be allowed to make this edit, last year. So he waited until the attention was elsewhere, then came back and did the same thing again.

This is the definition of obsession.

72 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:38:37am

re: #63 Charles

The stalker who tried to insert false information based on a Tim Blair post is back editing the LGF Wikipedia entry, and he’s watching this site obsessively.

When I tried to edit that page to be remotely fair, that guy was on it within minutes each time.

73 Four More Tears  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:38:44am

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually that was the toned down version to keep it family. I was going to make a reference to ATM and picking sand out of their bottoms.

I picked the wrong time to eat lunch…

74 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:38:46am

OT

13 Assassins is finally get released in the US.

Youtube Video
75 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:39:43am

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually that was the toned down version to keep it family. I was going to make a reference to ATM and picking sand out of their bottoms.

No DVDA?

76 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:39:43am

re: #36 ludwigvanquixote

PIMF

The quote from the charlatan Watts particularly interests me…

“Post normal scientific political theater.”

The way science works is that the data is reviewed carefully by independent observers. The only thing post normal and political theater about this is the right’s fervent desire to keep spreading ignorance and to not accept multiple dozens of reviews of the data set they are picking on while ignoring the thousands of data sets that are also published and also tell the same story.

This really is not hard.

It takes the stupidity of a right winger to truly miss just how simple this is. So let’s break it down:

1. Ice melts when it gets hot.

I know this is hard for republicans to fathom given their ideological stances, but it really does happen.

1a. If you see vast amounts of ice melting - it is probably getting warmer…

Really there is a little known quantum mechanical effect where ice crystals decide to suicide, and they spontaneously melt… but right wing ice psychologists have not been able to determine what has made all those tonnes of ice so depressed. Maybe it’s that M*A*S*H* went off the air…

2. Energy is conserved. So when you trap more of the sun’s energy, well it warms stuff up.

This is a thermodynamic argument. Republicans love thermodynamics - except correct thermodynamics. Remember how evolution couldn’t happen or some such crap because they don’t get the Second Law… but hey that sounds more impressive to other rubes than derp!

2a. it is warmer in the sun than in the shade. So ummm yeah that sun thing really is heating us up…

Wingnuts have a “gorgeous” “thermodynamic argument” that the Earth can not be warmed by the first Law because it is cold in space or something. This one actually sounds worse than derp!

2b. putting on a parka on a hot sunny day is bad.

2c. This is all about how fast you loose lose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

3. CO2 really is a GHG. We’ve known this sine since 1896! The GOP payed for all sorts of IR missiles that also really nailed down exactly what the IR bands of CO2 are. through the 50’s and 60’s. But then again we all know how much the GOP hates people in uniform who don’t say what the corporate masters want.

4. Feedbacks are real. No really. Try putting the speaker by the microphone! There is a similar thing here with ice loss, methane release, death of phytoplankton etc… This problem speeds up badly. It does not slow down. The only thing to do is take the mic away from the speaker.

But the GOP hates that because it would mean ruffling the feathers of various oil and coal barons and sheiks. And to think that the GOP has a periodic faux outrage about a Dem “bowing” to the Saudis., while the GOP actually actively sucks their cocks!


There is no need to lose audience by insulting not just the leadership, which needs to step down, but the followers, who need to be converted.

Muller’s study will prove most helpful to AGW evangelists. Sarcasm has its place too, but there’s no point in getting over the top with it. We have got to WIN THIS THING, and that requires rhetorical restraint.

Hat tip, Saul Alinsky.

77 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:41:34am

re: #76 lostlakehiker

Yeah and the other side has no rhetorical restraint.. So who is winning? How is that “high road” working out for us?

Never lie about the science, or anything, but call these whores what thy are openly.

78 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:45:26am

There’s none so blind as those who will not see.

79 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:46:17am

Fixed some typos in my page.

80 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:49:56am

re: #76 lostlakehiker

But you are correct.

I made it more eloquent:

But the GOP hates that because it would mean ruffling the feathers of various oil and coal barons and sheiks. And to think that the GOP has a periodic faux outrage about a Dem “bowing” to the Saudis, while the GOP actually does a lot more than bow. They kneel, look up at the oil sheiks lovingly, with big limpid eyes, and beg them to be gentle before following orders.

81 Four More Tears  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:50:09am

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Missed one:

2c. This is all about how fast you loose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

82 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:51:52am

re: #81 JasonA

Missed one:

2c. This is all about how fast you loose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

The Carbon Bathtub

Image: carbon-bath.jpg

83 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:52:02am

re: #81 JasonA

Missed one:

2c. This is all about how fast you loose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

Thanks!

84 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:52:58am

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don’t do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them

- “Crosseyed and Painless” - The Talking Heads

85 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:54:21am

re: #81 JasonA

Missed one:

2c. This is all about how fast you loose heat as opposed to how fast you add it.

Now reads

2c. This is all about how fast you lose heat as opposed to how fast you add heat. If you add heat faster than you lose it, you get warmer.

86 calochortus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:59:09am

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

More eloquent and more family friendly. A win/win.

87 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:00:53pm

re: #86 calochortus

More eloquent and more family friendly. A win/win.

I agree.

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:01:27pm

re: #86 calochortus

More eloquent and more family friendly. A win/win.

And thanks. People need to look at this more clearly. They are dooming themselves to serve “masters” who despise them.

89 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:02:07pm

Lefties surprisingly not outraged by rials at Gitmo.
Heh.

90 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:04:08pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Lefties surprisingly not outraged by rials at Gitmo.
Heh.

That is an interesting point. I am honestly unhappy with so many of Obama’s forgotten promises.

91 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:06:36pm

re: #63 Charles

The stalker who tried to insert false information based on a Tim Blair post is back editing the LGF Wikipedia entry, and he’s watching this site obsessively.

Psychos with a severe case of OCD.

92 calochortus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:07:24pm

re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote

That is an interesting point. I am honestly unhappy with so many of Obama’s forgotten promises.

I’m not happy about those forgotten promises either. I suspect that in the real world many of those promises are harder to keep than expected, for reasons both good and bad. I try to cut members of both parties a little slack on the promises kept count. But only a little.

93 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:09:26pm

re: #91 Gus 802

Psychos with a severe case of OCD.

And an even more severe case of CJDS.

94 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:10:11pm

re: #92 calochortus

I’m not happy about those forgotten promises either. I suspect that in the real world many of those promises are harder to keep than expected, for reasons both good and bad. I try to cut members of both parties a little slack on the promises kept count. But only a little.

An incumbant should get a little less slack here. After 2-4 years in office it is harder to credit them with learning complexity of the situation and adjusting course after being briefed.

95 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:10:35pm

re: #49 commadore183

Even if you don’t believe in global warming, there’s plenty of reasons why we need to go away from fossil fuels. Of course, the GOP’s corporate masters don’t want anything to get in the way of the almighty $$$, regardless of the truth of global warming or the deadly side effects of fossil fuel usage.

Among other reasons, Gaddafi, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah and various other unpleasant types would have to rely entirely on peddling opium, palm fronds and looted artifacts to finance their anti-social activities.

96 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:10:46pm

re: #92 calochortus

I’m not happy about those forgotten promises either. I suspect that in the real world many of those promises are harder to keep than expected, for reasons both good and bad. I try to cut members of both parties a little slack on the promises kept count. But only a little.

I’, glad he’s breaking some of his more unrealistic promises. If he ran a more centrist campaign I would have voted for him. I really don’t care where or how they hold the trial. Whatever they can do legally to make it work is fine by me.

97 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:12:01pm

re: #93 Alouette

And an even more severe case of CJDS.

He’s no doubt in his mother’s basement in a sundress and wig with pictures of Charles taped to the wall.

98 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:12:51pm

re: #49 commadore183

Even if you don’t believe in global warming, there’s plenty of reasons why we need to go away from fossil fuels. Of course, the GOP’s corporate masters don’t want anything to get in the way of the almighty $$$, regardless of the truth of global warming or the deadly side effects of fossil fuel usage.

Excellent point.

But I also really want to be clear that:

If you don’t believe in global warming, you are stupid.

99 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:13:14pm

How to Grow Bean Sprouts in a Jar

100 Bob Dillon  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:13:55pm

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And if he had produced the results they wanted, they would have said “Hey, we even got the hippies at Berkeley to agree with us.”

This is an alphabetical table of Nobel laureates associated with the University of California, Berkeley, including current and former faculty members and researchers as well as graduates. As of 2010, 66 Nobel laureates have been associated with Berkeley.

Berkeley currently has eight Nobel laureates on its faculty, out of the twenty-five full-time faculty members who have won the Prize.

Interesting statistic.

101 calochortus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:14:38pm

re: #97 Gus 802

He’s no doubt in his mother’s basement in a sundress and wig with pictures of Charles taped to the wall.


That is not a mental image I need…

re: #65 Naso Tang


Come to think of it, I have laundry to fold.. BBL

In an incredible coincidence, I have laundry to fold too. And lunch to eat.

102 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:19:13pm

I’m always amazed at how the deniers take the science of climate change so personally. It’s also beyond “skepticism” and has attained the point of emotionally charged “opposition”. And in this internet age it also comes along with a heavy dose of near psychotic — see above — behavior.

103 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:19:56pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Lefties surprisingly not outraged by rials at Gitmo.
Heh.

Well, at this point, it was pretty clear this was going to happen from months and months ago, so I think a lot of it was spent back then. Personally, I was all outraged out by some time in the middle of 2007, so I mostly just sigh over how this has all been handled, now.

That said, I did throw my hands up in the air a bit when it became clear Obama was mostly doing a 180 on these things, but that was mostly frustration.

104 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:21:03pm

More footage from Geraldo’s questionable firefight that I wrote about last night….

Liveleak Video

lol rpg fail!

105 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:22:26pm

re: #103 Simply Sarah

Well, at this point, it was pretty clear this was going to happen from months and months ago, so I think a lot of it was spent back then. Personally, I was all outraged out by some time in the middle of 2007, so I mostly just sigh over how this has all been handled, now.

That said, I did throw my hands up in the air a bit when it became clear Obama was mostly doing a 180 on these things, but that was mostly frustration.

I console myself with the bitter thought that at least it isn’t McCain sitting in that seat, with Palin as his backup.

106 BishopX  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:24:01pm

re: #92 calochortus

I’m not happy about those forgotten promises either. I suspect that in the real world many of those promises are harder to keep than expected, for reasons both good and bad. I try to cut members of both parties a little slack on the promises kept count. But only a little.

I’d rather have a military trial in line with congressional edict as opposed to a civilian trial in contravention of it. I’m glad that Obama recognizes that his presidency has it’s limits, one of which is congress, something that Bush never seemed to quite understand.

107 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:25:26pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More footage from Geraldo’s questionable firefight that I wrote about last night…

[Video]lol rpg fail!

What’s up with that RPG? Looks like it went “plunk” or something. Then Geraldo falls to the ground almost laughing. Later they’re taping him all alone in the middle of the field on the ground and this is after the cameraman was right next to him. That was another “special shot”. This is so fake and Fox News is a joke.

108 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:27:16pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More footage from Geraldo’s questionable firefight that I wrote about last night…

[Video]lol rpg fail!

That RPG needs some Viagra stat!

109 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:27:31pm

re: #105 kirkspencer

I console myself with the bitter thought that at least it isn’t McCain sitting in that seat, with Palin as his backup.

Amen.

110 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:29:26pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

More footage from Geraldo’s questionable firefight that I wrote about last night…

[Video]lol rpg fail!

You know, I don’t think I need to actually watch that in order to know exactly what happens in it. It’s a bit shocking to think that there was a time when that man was popular and actually seen as a serious and fairly legitimate journalist.

111 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:29:34pm

re: #107 Gus 802

What’s up with that RPG? Looks like it went “plunk” or something. Then Geraldo falls to the ground almost laughing. Later they’re taping him all alone in the middle of the field on the ground and this is after the cameraman was right next to him. That was another “special shot”. This is so fake and Fox News is a joke.

It’s also absurd that they leave their car and run towards the incoming fire in an open field. The Libyan guy in the green jacket seems pretty unconcerned as Geraldo and run crew around like idiots.

112 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:30:41pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

It’s also absurd that they leave their car and run towards the incoming fire in an open field. The Libyan guy in the green jacket seems pretty unconcerned as Geraldo and run crew around like idiots.

And what’s with that pricey SUV?
Riding in style!
/

113 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:30:45pm

re: #110 Simply Sarah

You know, I don’t think I need to actually watch that in order to know exactly what happens in it. It’s a bit shocking to think that there was a time when that man was popular and actually seen as a serious and fairly legitimate journalist.

What, you’re not still holdin’ that whole vault bit against him, are ya?

///

114 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:31:12pm

re: #105 kirkspencer

I console myself with the bitter thought that at least it isn’t McCain sitting in that seat, with Palin as his backup.

Well, I at least like to think that McCain would have been a bit less crazy than he was running for reelection, but I’m probably fooling myself there. Palin, uh. Well, she sorta brought any chance of me voting for that ticket into negative numbers.

115 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:31:55pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

It’s also absurd that they leave their car and run towards the incoming fire in an open field. The Libyan guy in the green jacket seems pretty unconcerned as Geraldo and run crew around like idiots.

As long as he doesn’t start drawing maps in the dirt, they should get along fine.

116 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:33:52pm

Classic Geraldo.

Youtube Video

/
117 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:34:41pm

re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As long as he doesn’t start drawing maps in the dirt, they should get along fine.

Well, His Fox news report last night was about how much the rebels suck and that we shouldn’t give them arms and ammo. The rebels may suck but they very well might kill him if they find out what he’s reporting.

118 Stanghazi  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:34:57pm

Arkansas sets fire to devil NPR station

119 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:34:59pm
Youtube Video
120 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:36:12pm

re: #119 b_sharp

[Video]

The Devil went down to Arkansas, looking for a soul to steal.
But the Clintons had already left…

;)

121 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:37:10pm

re: #120 oaktree

The Devil went down to Arkansas, looking for a soul to steal.

;)

All he found were gingers, so he left…

122 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:38:24pm

Good grief. DCMC is still whining….
Sheesh.

123 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:38:50pm

re: #118 Stanley Sea

Arkansas sets fire to devil NPR station

The handiwork of modern day right wing brownshirts…

Damage knocks NPR stations in Ark., Texas off air

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Authorities say possible tampering that knocked National Public Radio affiliates in Arkansas and Texas off the air are being investigated as separate incidents.

Engineers at KTXK in Texarkana, Texas, found holes in a transmission cable Friday. A fire damaged KUAR’s transmitter at Little Rock, Arkansas, the next day. Police say someone had changed the Little Rock station’s lock.

Both stations were broadcasting online Monday and the Little Rock station was operating at reduced power.

Arkansas State Police spokesman Bill Sadler says local agencies will investigate the cases separately unless they receive evidence that connects them.

Republicans in the U.S. House last month pushed an effort to end federal funding to NPR amid ongoing budget talks. Democratic opponents called the move an ideological attack.

124 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:39:58pm

re: #122 Varek Raith

Good grief. DCMC is still whining…
Sheesh.

OCD… and his buddy beartiger.

125 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:41:26pm

re: #124 Gus 802

OCD… and his buddy beartiger.

Way too much energy.
I give up. It’s like arguing with a rock.
:)

126 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:42:07pm

Geraldo is being a peckerwood. again.

127 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:42:59pm

Even more bogus Geraldo video…..

Liveleak Video

Maybe I’ll make a new page on this.

128 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:47:22pm

re: #125 Varek Raith

Way too much energy.
I give up. It’s like arguing with a rock.
:)

Yep. Just now he reminded me of the truthers.

…One down.

129 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:48:10pm

re: #128 Gus 802

Tell me if there is anything you would add to my new page.

130 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:49:01pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Man, that’s seems even more blatantly fake than the first…

131 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:50:24pm

re: #130 Varek Raith

Man, that’s seems even more blatantly fake than the first…

Yeah, it seems obviously fake to me. Even Fox News readers think it’s fake, For some reason nobody else is picking up the story. Not even Media Matters. I’m not sure why, maybe I’m missing something.

132 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:50:41pm

re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote

Tell me if there is anything you would add to my new page.

Oh. Maybe something about Fox News’s recent meme that “wind power is more dangerous then nuclear power”. There’s also another one about snow returning on Mount Kilimanjaro and thus “AGW isn’t teh real!”

133 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:51:52pm

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it seems obviously fake to me. Even Fox News readers think it’s fake, For some reason nobody else is picking up the story. Not even Media Matters. I’m not sure why, maybe I’m missing something.

Was it from the 1st?

134 Stanghazi  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:55:33pm

andersoncooper Anderson Cooper

Just intvd Eman al-Obeidy hiding in Tripoli. What she says was done to her by Gadhafi’s forces is horrific. #ac360 10p

135 Nevertires  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:55:37pm

Man Geraldo is a joke. I remember years back some interview he did with a serial killer in prison. If I recall correctly - he kept taunting the guy and saying “do I make you angry” and stuff like that. Real hardcore journalism that was - shocker - more about Geraldo than anything else.

He could almost be a segment on Colbert or Daily Show. I see him and laugh.

136 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:57:17pm

re: #133 Simply Sarah

Was it from the 1st?

Nope, it’s from yesterday.

137 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:57:25pm

There is something which just grates on me when I see non-professional soldiers. Put the damn weapon in your shoulder, aim and take a shot. Stop popping off rounds from the hip and then looking around confused because you missed.

138 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:58:48pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Nope, it’s from yesterday.

Alternatively, it could be because this sort of thing is about as expected as breathing when dealing with Geraldo. I’m pretty sure that if he’s not pissing off the Pentagon or fighting Wolf Blitzer to the death, no one really pays much attention anymore (And maybe not even for that second one, either).

139 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:58:50pm

re: #124 Gus 802

OCD… and his buddy beartiger.

Another stalker sock puppet has been outed.

140 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:59:04pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is something which just grates on me when I see non-professional soldiers. Put the damn weapon in your shoulder, aim and take a shot. Stop popping off rounds from the hip and then looking around confused because you missed.

The rebels are pretty bad but in these videos they are just putting on a show for Geraldo. They aren’t really shooting at anything.

141 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:59:47pm

re: #139 Charles

Another stalker sock puppet has been outed.

I saw that. They’re both up to something and it almost looks like BT and DCMC were working together. Just a major load of BS coming from both of them.

142 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:59:55pm

re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote

Tell me if there is anything you would add to my new page.

Just one quick question. You state CO2 has been known to be a GHG since 1896 when Arrhenius worked on it, but didn’t Tyndale in 1859 come to similar conclusions?

143 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:00:57pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

The rebels are pretty bad but in these videos they are just putting on a show for Geraldo. They aren’t really shooting at anything.

Actually, that’s the really depressing part. They’re actually trying to shoot at Geraldo.
/

144 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:01:28pm

re: #143 Simply Sarah

Actually, that’s the really depressing part. They’re actually trying to shoot at Geraldo.
/

They just want in on Capone’s vault.

145 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:01:57pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

The rebels are pretty bad but in these videos they are just putting on a show for Geraldo. They aren’t really shooting at anything.

I’m remembering the tank that the rebels engaged from a week or so ago. That was just painful to watch from a purely professional view point.

146 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:02:04pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

They just want in on Capone’s vault.

Haven’t they suffered enough already?

147 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:02:47pm

re: #145 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I’m remembering the tank that the rebels engaged from a week or so ago. That was just painful to watch from a purely professional view point.

Even from a player of Modern Warfare, that was painful to watch.
;)

148 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:03:19pm

re: #142 b_sharp

Just one quick question. You state CO2 has been known to be a GHG since 1896 when Arrhenius worked on it, but didn’t Tyndale in 1859 come to similar conclusions?

I just looked it up on Wiki. It was suspected as early as 1824 by Mr. Transforms himself.
Cool.

149 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:04:39pm

re: #147 Varek Raith

Even from a player of Modern Warfare, that was painful to watch.
;)

About the only guns I’ve ever fired involved Nerf and *I’m* embarrassed for them.

150 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:05:00pm

Ok, it’s definitely fake. Check this out.
Freeze at 0:11 of this clip of the grenade launcher fail…..

Liveleak Video

The guy is firing off to the left. notice the berm Geraldo is lying on. A large chuck of concrete just behind him.
Now skip to 6:26 of this clip…..

Liveleak Video

same berm, same chuck of concrete behind Geraldo but the guy is firing at enemy forces who are now on the right.

151 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:06:38pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Ok, it’s definitely fake. Check this out.
Freeze at 0:11 of this clip of the grenade launcher fail…

[Video]same berm, same chuck of concrete behind Geraldo but the guy is firing at enemy forces who are now on the right.

You know, I just realized this, but doesn’t this mean Geraldo is having the rebels further waste their rather limited supply of ammunition just so he can make a shitty fake video?

152 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:09:19pm

re: #151 Simply Sarah

You know, I just realized this, but doesn’t this mean Geraldo is having the rebels further waste their rather limited supply of ammunition just so he can make a shitty fake video?

They can buy more with what he pays them, n’est-ca pas?

153 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:10:45pm

re: #151 Simply Sarah

You know, I just realized this, but doesn’t this mean Geraldo is having the rebels further waste their rather limited supply of ammunition just so he can make a shitty fake video?

Yup.

154 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:15:45pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Ok, it’s definitely fake. Check this out.
Freeze at 0:11 of this clip of the grenade launcher fail…

[Video]same berm, same chuck of concrete behind Geraldo but the guy is firing at enemy forces who are now on the right.

They’re surrounded.
OR
The grenade had a string tied to it so it would arc overhead, like Red Button’s rocket in Hatari.

155 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:19:29pm

Back later.

156 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:24:59pm

Obama is announcing his 2012 bid for reelection today. The GOP is still standing around with their dicks in their hands trying to decide who wants to oppose him enough to commit. Gotta love it. They should have had a few candidates by now, but they’re all so busy raising money outside the campaign finance laws that they can’t declare.

157 iossarian  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:29:35pm

re: #156 darthstar

Obama is announcing his 2012 bid for reelection today. The GOP is still standing around with their dicks in their hands trying to decide who wants to oppose him enough to commit. Gotta love it. They should have had a few candidates by now, but they’re all so busy raising money outside the campaign finance laws that they can’t declare.

The Palins have got to eat, you know.

Declaring that she’s running won’t put food on the table. In fact it could make it illegal!

158 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:30:30pm

re: #156 darthstar

Obama is announcing his 2012 bid for reelection today. The GOP is still standing around with tweezers, looking for their dicks, in their hands trying to decide who wants to oppose him enough to commit. Gotta love it. They should have had a few candidates by now, but they’re all so busy raising money outside the campaign finance laws that they can’t declare.

FTFY

159 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:32:28pm

re: #63 Charles

The stalker who tried to insert false information based on a Tim Blair post is back editing the LGF Wikipedia entry, and he’s watching this site obsessively.

These people seriously need a hobby. Or lobotomies. Or both.

160 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:33:47pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

The grenade launcher seemed to launch a dud in that first clip. When the thruster kicked in, the trajectory was already downward. Then again, that could be how they’re designed and it corrected and flew straight…I don’t have any experience with them myself.

161 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:34:07pm

re: #159 Fozzie Bear

These people seriously need a hobby. Or lobotomies. Or both.

A hobotomy, which is a lobotomy done by an amateur brain surgeon.

162 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:34:54pm

re: #156 darthstar

Obama is announcing his 2012 bid for reelection today. The GOP is still standing around with their dicks in their hands trying to decide who wants to oppose him enough to commit. Gotta love it. They should have had a few candidates by now, but they’re all so busy raising money outside the campaign finance laws that they can’t declare.

Yep, not to mention they declare, some of them lose their cushy jobs and free air time over at Fox News.

Thought it hilarious the other day when I heard that the first GOP debate scheduled for the year had to be pushed back to September. Why? No candidates to debate amongst.

163 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:35:02pm

re: #159 Fozzie Bear

These people seriously need a hobby. Or lobotomies. Or both.

Hell, if they just learned to masturbate they’d be better off.

164 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:38:55pm

re: #163 darthstar

Hell, if they just learned to masturbate they’d be better off.

I think I should get to work on an instructional wiki entry immediately. I welcome constructive edits.

165 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:39:10pm

re: #163 darthstar

Hell, if they just learned to masturbate they’d be better off.

THATS A SIN!

166 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:39:17pm

re: #162 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep, not to mention they declare, some of them lose their cushy jobs and free air time over at Fox News.

Thought it hilarious the other day when I heard that the first GOP debate scheduled for the year had to be pushed back to September. Why? No candidates to debate amongst.

I really begin to suspect they’re going to try and wait as long as possible before dropping someone into the slot. All their strong candidates come with baggage, and the less time they have to spend in front of the media and the youtubers the better for their prospects.

167 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:44:12pm

re: #166 kirkspencer

I really begin to suspect they’re going to try and wait as long as possible before dropping someone into the slot. All their strong candidates come with baggage, and the less time they have to spend in front of the media and the youtubers the better for their prospects.

meant to add…

I also think the actual candidate will be none of the current batch. Instead it’ll be someone who gets talked about as a possibility but for “obvious” reasons isn’t expected to run now. Just like W Bush wasn’t really considered by anyone given he’d JUST won his second term as governor..

So I get to pondering… General Petraeus? Governors Sam Brownback or Brian Sandoval?

168 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:44:12pm

re: #166 kirkspencer

I really begin to suspect they’re going to try and wait as long as possible before dropping someone into the slot. All their strong candidates come with baggage, and the less time they have to spend in front of the media and the youtubers the better for their prospects.

That’s fine. I’d love to see a “President Obama 2012 - Unopposed!” campaign get some legs though…just for giggles

169 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:44:49pm

re: #166 kirkspencer

I really begin to suspect they’re going to try and wait as long as possible before dropping someone into the slot. All their strong candidates come with baggage, and the less time they have to spend in front of the media and the youtubers the better for their prospects.

That may very well be the case. Newt alone drags enough bullshit behind him to fertilize the Sinai, with the others not far behind. They get the media on them and that bullshit will start to raise a stink, which is something they cannot afford early in the game.

170 Winny Spencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:46:27pm
Youtube Video

Later.

171 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:46:55pm

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

Washington (CNN) — Attorney General Eric Holder announced Monday that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other 9/11 terror suspects will face a military trial at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility in Cuba.

…

In announcing his decision, Holder blasted Congress for imposing restrictions on the Justice Department’s ability to bring the men to New York for civilian trials — a course of action he promised in 2009.

“After thoroughly studying the case, it became clear to me that the best venue for prosecution was in federal court. I stand by that decision today,” Holder said.

“As the president has said, those unwise and unwarranted restrictions (imposed by Congress) undermine our counterterrorism efforts and could harm our national security. Decisions about who, where and how to prosecute have always been — and must remain — the responsibility of the executive branch.”

Damn obstructionist GOP… this could have been on with already if it weren’t for them.

172 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:47:26pm

I have that movie “Drag Me to Hell” on for background noise right now. This is some of the most pathetic overacting I’ve seen. Lots of blood, guts and oh shit…a goat just started talking and bit a guy on the hand…Is this supposed to be a horror film?

173 zora  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:49:11pm

ot: 2,000 Protesters March On Koch Industries’ D.C. Office

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

Though they don’t want you to know about it, the billionaire Koch brothers are bankrolling a massive campaign to roll back progressive achievements, and today, labor, civil rights, and climate activists turned out at dozens of rallies across the country to demonstrate against the Koch’s secretive influence in American politics and to stand up for labor and civil rights.

In Washington, D.C. today an estimated 2,000 protesters marched on Koch Industries’ Washington D.C. offices and attempted to give Charles and David Koch an invitation to come out and speak with the protesters.

Last Thursday, tea party activists rallied on Capitol Hill to pressure Republican lawmakers to cut government spending. Crowd estimates ranged from “dozens” to “fewer than 200,” yet the event attracted dozens of reporters and significant media interest, producing hundreds of stories in local and national press. At today’s rally, which was ten times bigger than the tea party one, ThinkProgress spotted three reporters — none from mainstream publications.

174 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:49:58pm

re: #170 Winny Spencer

[Video]Later.

Youtube Video
175 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:51:49pm

re: #167 kirkspencer

meant to add…

I also think the actual candidate will be none of the current batch. Instead it’ll be someone who gets talked about as a possibility but for “obvious” reasons isn’t expected to run now. Just like W Bush wasn’t really considered by anyone given he’d JUST won his second term as governor..

So I get to pondering… General Petraeus? Governors Sam Brownback or Brian Sandoval?

Very likely. My guess is a governor, either currently in office or recently left, so as to play up the “executive experience” angle. Definitely not Sarah, but similarly a “fresh face” that they can play up as a bright new star on the GOP scene. Midwest most likely, but don’t rule out a Southerner, provided they can find one that doesn’t come with Bible firmly in hand.

176 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:53:21pm

re: #175 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Very likely. My guess is a governor, either currently in office or recently left, so as to play up the “executive experience” angle. Definitely not Sarah, but similarly a “fresh face” that they can play up as a bright new star on the GOP scene. Midwest most likely, but don’t rule out a Southerner, provided they can find one that doesn’t come with Bible firmly in hand.

Someone who fit the bolded description could never win the GOP primaries. Not a chance in hell. The next GOP candidate will be loudly, overtly, obnoxiously religious. I’d put money on it.

177 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:54:36pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Ok, it’s definitely fake. Check this out.
Freeze at 0:11 of this clip of the grenade launcher fail…

[Video]same berm, same chuck of concrete behind Geraldo but the guy is firing at enemy forces who are now on the right.

Why the hell isn’t he wearing any kind of bullet resistant vest?

178 Cheechako  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:55:45pm

The winner of the 2012 Presidential election will be determined by the Republican primaries. If the Tea Party manages to come out in force in the primaries and manage to nominate one of their own, the Independents and Democrats will give President Obama a landslide win.

179 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:56:06pm

re: #177 Varek Raith

Why the hell isn’t he wearing any kind of bullet resistant vest?

TIGER’S BLOOD!

180 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:56:42pm

re: #179 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Those are violent torpedoes of truth they are firing, not rockets.

181 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:56:49pm

re: #177 Varek Raith

Why the hell isn’t he wearing any kind of bullet resistant vest?

Because he’s in no danger and no where near any actual fighting.

182 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:56:55pm

re: #166 kirkspencer

I really begin to suspect they’re going to try and wait as long as possible before dropping someone into the slot. All their strong candidates come with baggage, and the less time they have to spend in front of the media and the youtubers the better for their prospects.

Herman Cain?

183 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:58:14pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

Herman Cain?

No. Already officially running, carries baggage.

184 Killgore Trout  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:58:35pm

BTW, my page is up: Geraldo Stages Fake Firefight for Fox News- Part 2

I didn’t use a question mark in the title this time because I think these videos are pretty definitively fake.

185 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:58:47pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Because he’s in no danger and no where near any actual fighting.

Indeed. He’s not even trying.

186 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:58:47pm

re: #178 Cheechako

The winner of the 2012 Presidential election will be determined by the Republican primaries. If the Tea Party manages to come out in force in the primaries and manage to nominate one of their own, the Independents and Democrats will give President Obama a landslide win.

Like I’ve said before, the GOP is in the piss-poor position of having candidates who could win the primaries but never win the general, while the ones who could win the general won’t make it through the primaries. Look for a schism in the wake of this election, as the leadership finally comes to terms with the reality that the “Tea Party” far-right are a millstone around their necks, not a means of returning to the White House.

187 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:59:33pm

re: #183 kirkspencer

No. Already officially running, carries baggage.

What baggage?

188 Cheechako  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:00:13pm

re: #186 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I’ve said before, the GOP is in the piss-poor position of having candidates who could win the primaries but never win the general, while the ones who could win the general won’t make it through the primaries. Look for a schism in the wake of this election, as the leadership finally comes to terms with the reality that the “Tea Party” far-right are a millstone around their necks, not a means of returning to the White House.

I agree wholeheartedly.

189 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:00:20pm

Koran Burning Drove Away ‘Basically All’ Parishioners

190 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:03:15pm

re: #189 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Koran Burning Drove Away ‘Basically All’ Parishioners

Yep. His principles about the Bible and the Koran are more important than *other* people’s lives.

I wonder what he’d do if someone offered him airfare so that he could go pull that stunt in the central square of Kabul. Go beard the infidels in their den.

191 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:03:42pm

Meanwhile in Wisconsin, Scooter is up to his usual tricks…

No degree, no experience, 2 DWI but gets an $81k a year job!

[Link: www.newser.com…]

192 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:04:12pm

re: #189 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Koran Burning Drove Away ‘Basically All’ Parishioners

That’s not really surprising. I mean, seeing the response to this from some groups, would *you* really want to be anywhere near that guy? (Sadly, I doubt many/any of them left because they actually think he’s wrong)

193 Political Atheist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:05:20pm

O/T
Okay to sum up recent news-We nearly wrecked the gulf of Mexico in terms of the food chain last year. Today we have further confirmation of AGW, strong enough to out the deniers as just partisan pretenders.

And now we find out the Japan will dump 3 million gallons of water contaminated with radioactive particles. The experts talk about an 8 day half life, but what of other particles?

Will anyone want the fish from those waters?

194 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:05:33pm

re: #192 Simply Sarah

That’s not really surprising. I mean, seeing the response to this from some groups, would *you* really want to be anywhere near that guy? (Sadly, I doubt many/any of them left because they actually think he’s wrong)

Do you support his constitutional right to do what he did?

195 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:06:18pm

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

Do you support his constitutional right to do what he did?

He was free to do it. He’s just also free to deal with the consequences.

196 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:08:08pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

What baggage?

1) Abortion should be illegal, even for rape and incest.

2) Lots and lots of very ugly footage while host of the Herman Cain show (talk radio) — avoids the racist points, but hits many of the other common teabagger points.

3) “KEYES: You came under a bit of controversy this week for some of the comments made about Muslims in general. Would you be comfortable appointing a Muslim, either in your cabinet or as a federal judge?” “CAIN: No, I will not. And here’s why. There is this creeping attempt, there is this attempt to gradually ease Sharia law and the Muslim faith into our government.”

4) Questions, not yet an official investigation, in regard to his funding while running for Senator of Georgia two years ago.

197 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:08:15pm

re: #195 Simply Sarah

He was free to do it. He’s just also free to deal with the consequences.

You didn’t answer my question… I didn’t ask if he was free to do it… I asked you if you support his constitutional right to do it. And I didn’t say it was a good idea to do it, or even right to do it. I think it was morally wrong on so many levels.

198 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:08:30pm

re: #194 Walter L. Newton

Do you support his constitutional right to do what he did?

Thinking of joining his church, Walter?

199 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:09:33pm

re: #198 darthstar

Thinking of joining his church, Walter?

…and?

200 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:09:46pm

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

What baggage?

Makeup and extra shoes.

201 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:09:49pm

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

You didn’t answer my question… I didn’t ask if he was free to do it… I asked you if you support his constitutional right to do it. And I didn’t say it was a good idea to do it, or even right to do it. I think it was morally wrong on so many levels.

Stop being a dick Walter. I support Terry Jones’ constitutional right to burn a Koran, a Bible, a Dictionary, or a cook book. Supporting the right doesn’t mean supporting the action.

202 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:10:28pm

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

Why the interrogation? Planning on filing a civil rights suite for Jones anytime soon?

203 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:10:36pm

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

You didn’t answer my question… I didn’t ask if he was free to do it… I asked you if you support his constitutional right to do it. And I didn’t say it was a good idea to do it, or even right to do it. I think it was morally wrong on so many levels.

Well, I thought I answered.

He has the right to do it and I’m not trying to take that away from him. It was fantastically stupid and served no positive purpose except in his own mind, if even that, but it was protected speech. He just needs to live with the simple fact that many people will want absolutely nothing to do with him now. Well, more people.

204 allegro  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:10:48pm

re: #193 Rightwingconspirator

Okay to sum up recent news-We nearly wrecked the gulf of Mexico in terms of the food chain last year. Today we have further confirmation of AGW, strong enough to out the deniers as just partisan pretenders.

You’ll enjoy this…

Transocean Ltd. gave its top executives bonuses for achieving the “best year in safety performance in our company’s history” – despite the explosion of its oil rig that killed 11 people and spilled 200 million gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

Safety accounts for a quarter of the executives’ total cash bonuses. The total bonus for CEO Steve Newman last year was $374,062.
According to calculations by The Associated Press, the total value the company assigned to Newman’s compensation package was $5.8 million.

That figure includes an $850,000 base salary – a 34 percent increase from the prior year; perquisites of $622,057, which includes housing and vacation allowances, among other things; and the $374,062 bonus. Also included in the figure are stock options valued at $1.9 million and deferred shares valued at $2 million when those awards were granted in March 2010.

205 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:10:52pm

re: #201 darthstar

Stop being a dick Walter. I support Terry Jones’ constitutional right to burn a Koran, a Bible, a Dictionary, or a cook book. Supporting the right doesn’t mean supporting the action.

Did I ever say otherwise? Stop projecting. It makes you look silly.

206 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:10:53pm

re: #202 McSpiff

Suit even.

207 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:11:27pm

re: #203 Simply Sarah

Well, I thought I answered.

He has the right to do it and I’m not trying to take that away from him. It was fantastically stupid and served no positive purpose except in his own mind, if even that, but it was protected speech. He just needs to live with the simple fact that many people will want absolutely nothing to do with him now. Well, more people.

Agreed.

208 Political Atheist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:11:35pm

re: #204 allegro

I saw that. WTF?

209 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:12:00pm

re: #204 allegro

You’ll enjoy this…

Wait, what?
Sheesh.

210 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:12:10pm

re: #202 McSpiff

Why the interrogation? Planning on filing a civil rights suite for Jones anytime soon?

What does it fucking matter? You got a “suite” to rent someone?

211 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:12:41pm

re: #205 Walter L. Newton

Did I ever say otherwise? Stop projecting. It makes you look silly.

But do you support my right to project, Walter? Answer the question.

212 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:13:18pm

re: #211 darthstar

But do you support my right to project, Walter? Answer the question.

Yep… and you do it all the time.

213 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:14:06pm

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

Yep… and you do it all the time.

Coke or Pepsi?!?!
;)

214 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:14:21pm

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

Can you imagine what an awful place LGF would be if everyone responded to Walter’s questioning the same he way he responds to it? Youch.

215 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:14:30pm

re: #213 Varek Raith

Coke or Pepsi?!?!
;)

Bourbon.

216 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:14:50pm

re: #204 allegro

You’ll enjoy this…

If that was what qualified to them as the “best year in safety performance in our company’s history”, then I don’t think I want to know what happened previous years. Disgusting.

I really wish I had a job where I could royally fuck things up (Or be at the helm during such an event) and be given a huge bonus for my troubles. Or maybe even be given millions just to go away. That would be fun.

217 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:15:02pm

re: #214 McSpiff

Can you imagine what an awful place LGF would be if everyone responded to Walter’s questioning the same he way he responds to it? Youch.

I just tried it…it wasn’t very pleasant.

218 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:15:16pm

re: #214 McSpiff

Can you imagine what an awful place LGF would be if everyone responded to Walter’s questioning the same he way he responds to it? Youch.

Then stay out of it.

219 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:15:30pm

re: #217 darthstar

I just tried it…it wasn’t very pleasant.

Luckily most of us are above crass outbursts.

220 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:15:58pm

re: #218 Walter L. Newton

What about my first amendment rights Walter?

221 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:16:40pm

re: #219 McSpiff

Luckily most of us are above crass outbursts.

It’s not even fun to do in jest. What’s my fucking problem? //

222 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:16:53pm

re: #193 Rightwingconspirator

O/T
Okay to sum up recent news-We nearly wrecked the gulf of Mexico in terms of the food chain last year. Today we have further confirmation of AGW, strong enough to out the deniers as just partisan pretenders.

And now we find out the Japan will dump 3 million gallons of water contaminated with radioactive particles. The experts talk about an 8 day half life, but what of other particles?

Will anyone want the fish from those waters?

You know if the person dumping those particles into the ocean gets the shakes, and accidentally succusses them, we could be in real trouble.

Really, diluting them in water is the best way to get rid of short half-life isotopes.

223 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:16:54pm

re: #220 McSpiff

What about my first amendment rights Walter?

Your right… my mistake… sorry.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:17:14pm

re: #35 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, His wife says if you cut him open, there would be a little Buddha inside. I must admit, his temperament is a big reason I voted for him.

I think that Michelle should not encourage people to cut the President open. Just saying.

225 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:17:58pm

re: #203 Simply Sarah

Well, I thought I answered.

He has the right to do it and I’m not trying to take that away from him. It was fantastically stupid and served no positive purpose except in his own mind, if even that, but it was protected speech. He just needs to live with the simple fact that many people will want absolutely nothing to do with him now. Well, more people.

On my part, I’m not sure it was protected speech.

It was done with the specific intent of provoking a violent reaction. This shades into the area of incitement, though it’s not clean due to the separation of time and space.

Incitement of riot is not protected speech, with a workable defense being the speaker did not anticipate or intend the violence. Jones, however, did intend the reaction — he’s admitted to such.

Since I haven’t decided if it’s protected, I’m not certain I have reason to defend his right to make such a speech.

226 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:18:07pm

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that Michelle should not encourage people to cut the President open. Just saying.

Given the literalists in this country, I have to agree.

227 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:19:29pm

re: #226 darthstar

Given the literalists in this country, I have to agree.

OBAMA IS REALLY BUDDHA IN DISGUISE! ITS ALL REVEALED ON THE LONG FORM!

228 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:19:46pm

re: #227 McSpiff

OBAMA IS REALLY BUDDHA IN DISGUISE! ITS ALL REVEALED ON THE LONG FORM!

GOLD

229 allegro  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:20:00pm

re: #216 Simply Sarah

I

really wish I had a job where I could royally fuck things up (Or be at the helm during such an event) and be given a huge bonus for my troubles. Or maybe even be given millions just to go away. That would be fun.

It’s hard not to think of all the hard-working people who have been fired from their jobs the past couple of years based on totally fabricated and bogus reasons so their employers could avoid paying the unemployment insurance fees. Here, the state of Texas loves that to avoid paying the bennies. There’s a 3 person board to make the final decision: 2 representing business, 1 for labor. Interestingly, disputed claims come out 2 to 1 in favor of business.

230 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:20:03pm

re: #227 McSpiff

OBAMA IS REALLY BUDDHA IN DISGUISE! ITS ALL REVEALED ON THE LONG FORM!

Then there’s the “I just wanted to get a little buddha for my kid” defense.

231 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:21:54pm

re: #216 Simply Sarah

If that was what qualified to them as the “best year in safety performance in our company’s history”, then I don’t think I want to know what happened previous years. Disgusting.

I really wish I had a job where I could royally fuck things up (Or be at the helm during such an event) and be given a huge bonus for my troubles. Or maybe even be given millions just to go away. That would be fun.

Would you really take that money for those reasons?

232 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:25:10pm

re: #225 kirkspencer

On my part, I’m not sure it was protected speech.

It was done with the specific intent of provoking a violent reaction. This shades into the area of incitement, though it’s not clean due to the separation of time and space.

Incitement of riot is not protected speech, with a workable defense being the speaker did not anticipate or intend the violence. Jones, however, did intend the reaction — he’s admitted to such.

Since I haven’t decided if it’s protected, I’m not certain I have reason to defend his right to make such a speech.

In general, for speech of this type to have any chance of being ruled unprotected, it needs to be seen that it would provoke an imminent action, which has generally been treated as immediate following the speech. Even then, I’m not sure this would truly qualify as a First Amendment exception.

233 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:26:58pm

re: #231 Walter L. Newton

Would you really take that money for those reasons?

No, not really. I sort of like feeling I did *something* to earn what I make.

234 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:27:36pm

re: #225 kirkspencer

On my part, I’m not sure it was protected speech.

It was done with the specific intent of provoking a violent reaction. This shades into the area of incitement, though it’s not clean due to the separation of time and space.

Incitement of riot is not protected speech, with a workable defense being the speaker did not anticipate or intend the violence. Jones, however, did intend the reaction — he’s admitted to such.

Since I haven’t decided if it’s protected, I’m not certain I have reason to defend his right to make such a speech.

Could you imagine a lawyer having to prove that it’s a known fact that some Muslims would react violently this way…

235 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:29:21pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

Could you imagine a lawyer having to prove that it’s a known fact that some Muslims would react violently this way…

Would they need to prove that, or simply that Jones himself believed they would?

236 Political Atheist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:31:46pm

re: #222 b_sharp

Best solution to a problem best avoided by far. The inability to withstand an extended blackout has had some very serious consequences. So ironic-Not enough heat to make it’s own electricity but enough to break containment.

237 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:33:31pm

re: #233 Simply Sarah

No, not really. I sort of like feeling I did *something* to earn what I make.

You may know (maybe not), that over a year ago, I took a under-careered job as a cashier at a major grocery store chain. I prefer working to not working, and I not had much luck with retaining anything more than some contract programming work over the last 5 years.

With in one month of being at the store, the store manager asks me if I want to be put on a management track. After seeing what goes on in that sort of work environment (retail) and seeing what appeared to be company policy of how managers are required to deal with employees, I very diplomatically informed him…

“No sir, I’m not interested. I cannot see me being able to manage employees using the methods that are evidently required of you by corporate.”

238 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:35:11pm

re: #236 Rightwingconspirator

Best solution to a problem best avoided by far. The inability to withstand an extended blackout has had some very serious consequences. So ironic-Not enough heat to make it’s own electricity but enough to break containment.

The power company had a solution to the problem had they kept up with maintenance.

239 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:35:23pm

re: #235 McSpiff

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

Could you imagine a lawyer having to prove that it’s a known fact that some Muslims would react violently this way..


Would they need to prove that, or simply that Jones himself believed they would?


Exactly. But see Simply Sarah’s cogent remarks as well.

Again, I’m not certain it would be considered protected speech. He expected a violent response.

240 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:36:42pm

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

You may know (maybe not), that over a year ago, I took a under-careered job as a cashier at a major grocery store chain. I prefer working to not working, and I not had much luck with retaining anything more than some contract programming work over the last 5 years.

With in one month of being at the store, the store manager asks me if I want to be put on a management track. After seeing what goes on in that sort of work environment (retail) and seeing what appeared to be company policy of how managers are required to deal with employees, I very diplomatically informed him…

“No sir, I’m not interested. I cannot see me being able to manage employees using the methods that are evidently required of you by corporate.”

Ah. I’d heard about the grocery thing, I was unaware of that latter part. I think that most people, given a chance, would like to be working in some sense (Although they may not realize this until they aren’t working for an extended period).

Personally, I’ve been lucky at my job to have mostly had good experiences with dealing with various levels of management, but I know I’ve seen and heard some rather messy situations where it breaks down for one reason or another.

241 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:37:05pm

re: #23 Alouette

And how much of American corn is being burned up in cars?

ANY is too much. Doing stupid, pointless, biblically wasteful things in the name of addressing AGW is NOT the way to address the problem.

242 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:37:37pm

re: #239 kirkspencer

Exactly. But see Simply Sarah’s cogent remarks as well.

Again, I’m not certain it would be considered protected speech. He expected a violent response.

I don’t disbelieve you, but I am trying to find statements by Terry Jones that he knew what would happen… do you have a link.

243 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:38:28pm

re: #237 Walter L. Newton

I’ve worked at two call centers before. They seemed to be truly horribly run places. I thought management didn’t have a clue. After reading over a case study from the management program at my university, I discover that what I thought was incompetence was actually intentionally orchestrated. The material and call flow was designed such that an employee who had been there for 5 months would know as much as an employee who had been there for 5 years.

Turns out a high turn over rate in employees was the goal. As long as they recouped the cost of recruitment and training, and you quit before they had to give you any raises, you were a net positive for the company.

The document just went on and on detailing why the soul-sucking practises I had seen were ideal for the company. Really turned me off “Corporate management” practises.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:39:02pm

re: #190 oaktree

Yep. His principles about the Bible and the Koran are more important than *other* people’s lives.

I wonder what he’d do if someone offered him airfare so that he could go pull that stunt in the central square of Kabul. Go beard the infidels in their den.

I don’t know, but I’m relieved to see that even the people who were crazy enough to attend his church before this happened have noticed that they have a less distressingly crazy pastor at the First Evangelical Free Church, and have decamped.

245 b_sharp  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:39:26pm

BBL

246 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:40:43pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton


Posted by Charles

Actually, no — he absolutely did know this was a likely result. He was warned about it by the Secretary of Defense. General Petraeus made a statement about it too.

He did know what would happen, and he got exactly what he wanted.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

247 kirkspencer  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:41:13pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

I don’t disbelieve you, but I am trying to find statements by Terry Jones that he knew what would happen… do you have a link.

Not where I am, and I’m about to go offline. That said, I’ll look for it when I get to the computer again and send it via your blue-link.

248 jamesfirecat  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:42:37pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

I don’t disbelieve you, but I am trying to find statements by Terry Jones that he knew what would happen… do you have a link.

Wasn’t he warned by several people like General Petraeus about how burning the Koran would have negative consequences for the US in Afghanistan ahead of time?

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

If he “didn’t know” it could only be because he was being purposely obtuse.

249 elizajane  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:42:58pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

I don’t disbelieve you, but I am trying to find statements by Terry Jones that he knew what would happen… do you have a link.

“Knew” is the key term here. He’d certainly been warned about what would happen. Whether those warnings computed in his tiny little pea-sized brain is a more open question.

250 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:43:09pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

I don’t disbelieve you, but I am trying to find statements by Terry Jones that he knew what would happen… do you have a link.

He was warned by the US military no?

251 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:44:18pm

re: #225 kirkspencer

On my part, I’m not sure it was protected speech.

It was done with the specific intent of provoking a violent reaction. This shades into the area of incitement, though it’s not clean due to the separation of time and space.

Incitement of riot is not protected speech, with a workable defense being the speaker did not anticipate or intend the violence. Jones, however, did intend the reaction — he’s admitted to such.

Since I haven’t decided if it’s protected, I’m not certain I have reason to defend his right to make such a speech.

First, there’s no way to prove that the central intent of the thing was to provoke that reaction. The intent may just as well have been to garner some notoriety and get name in paper. It might even have been to express hostility to a religion.

Second, the law is pretty clear on incitement. The incitement to riot has to be a then-and-there situation, and the incitement has to be overt. The speaker has to say something in the vein of ‘string ‘em high, boys’, or ‘torch the damned place’, to people who are right there and can reasonably be expected to take him seriously.

If the speaker says only that ‘the Vietnam war is a crime against humanity’, and the crowd then burns a draft board office, that’s not incitement. It’s CERTAINLY not incitement if the police in some other city then gun down other demonstrators.

Even if everybody knows that sooner or later, somewhere or other, there’s bound to be an event along the lines of what we now call ‘Kent State’.

It won’t do to revoke our freedom of speech laws by twisting their meaning until they serve to prevent the perverse and prideful, but legal, activities of that SOB Jones.

252 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:45:52pm

re: #239 kirkspencer

Exactly. But see Simply Sarah’s cogent remarks as well.

Again, I’m not certain it would be considered protected speech. He expected a violent response.

Well, it’s not just that. The current standard is “imminent lawless action”, which, while a bit squishy, has generally been held to mean that the speech needs to be intended and likely to cause the lawless action and the action needs to be, uh, imminent.

It could be an interesting test case, but I don’t think charging him would work.

253 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:46:29pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

The rebels are pretty bad but in these videos they are just putting on a show for Geraldo. They aren’t really shooting at anything.

fauxfight?

254 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:47:17pm

re: #243 McSpiff

I’ve worked at two call centers before. They seemed to be truly horribly run places. I thought management didn’t have a clue. After reading over a case study from the management program at my university, I discover that what I thought was incompetence was actually intentionally orchestrated. The material and call flow was designed such that an employee who had been there for 5 months would know as much as an employee who had been there for 5 years.

Turns out a high turn over rate in employees was the goal. As long as they recouped the cost of recruitment and training, and you quit before they had to give you any raises, you were a net positive for the company.

The document just went on and on detailing why the soul-sucking practises I had seen were ideal for the company. Really turned me off “Corporate management” practises.

Worked at a place that specialized in hiring people right out of the military. They knew they could easily get 9-12 months of work out of them before they realized they were getting paid way under industry standard. They just made sure they hit the military job fairs quarterly.

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:48:54pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

Could you imagine a lawyer having to prove that it’s a known fact that some Muslims would react violently this way…

I don’t think it would take a lawyer much to demonstrate that past behavior of this sort has been used to spark rioting in Afghanistan, and that experts on the region had expressed their opinion that this would be used in the same manner.

256 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:49:11pm

re: #254 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Worked at a place that specialized in hiring people right out of the military. They knew they could easily get 9-12 months of work out of them before they realized they were getting paid way under industry standard. They just made sure they hit the military job fairs quarterly.

Well, I’m actually in a job that pays a decent bit less than I could make elsewhere. I picked it because it seemed like a good fit, the benefits are good, and I’ve been happy so far. I may not make as much as I could, but I normally enjoy my work and the company is pretty flexible with things if I need to leave early/take time off/etc.

257 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:50:14pm

re: #243 McSpiff

I’ve worked at two call centers before. They seemed to be truly horribly run places. I thought management didn’t have a clue. After reading over a case study from the management program at my university, I discover that what I thought was incompetence was actually intentionally orchestrated. The material and call flow was designed such that an employee who had been there for 5 months would know as much as an employee who had been there for 5 years.

Turns out a high turn over rate in employees was the goal. As long as they recouped the cost of recruitment and training, and you quit before they had to give you any raises, you were a net positive for the company.

The document just went on and on detailing why the soul-sucking practises I had seen were ideal for the company. Really turned me off “Corporate management” practises.

After a year at this store, I don’t think anyone could convince me that the methods and style of management with this company is anything be well orchestrated.

First off, there is a total lack of meaningful communication between upper management, middle management and worker bees. The only way you can get information is if you go looking for it, document it and make sure you can back up what you learned with proof. There is a “it’s not my table” attitude that rolls right down to the employee… making the employee as the final responsible party for any lack of management direction.

You have to cover your ass constantly. Since I run the front end overnight two night a week, I have made my own contact list of home phone numbers of management and responsible upper management. Why? Because you cannot rely on the official phone lists, contact lists, paperwork on site. it’s not kept in any organized way, it’s sloppy and mistake ridden. But if I was to rely on those documents, certain things would stop cold. And it would still roll down to me.

There is never a compliment for a job well done. No meetings with management, no reviews, no acknowledgements… the only time you receive any one-on-one time from management is if you have made a mistake. And then, it’s not counseling, it’s not pro-active, it’s not designed to correct and improve… it’s simply to write you up and warn you that you have ex-amount of days not to do it again, or a suspension.

This harks back to the 30’s, full blown Scrooge management model… unbelievable. After a year of it, I can understand why we have so many employees who are very good at their jobs, but other than that, don’t give two-shits about the company, improvement or loyalty.

258 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:51:26pm

re: #250 McSpiff

He was warned by the US military no?

I don’t know, that’s why I asked. I haven’t kept right up on this.

259 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:51:39pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

Some also think God wouldn’t let us harm the earth in such a manner.
:/

Umm, if even angels are allowed the freedom to rebel and found Hell, why-ever would a Christian think that mere mortals don’t have full-bore free will? From within the perspective of this religion, or from a secular perspective, any way you look at it, people can choose evil over good, and death over life.

A look at history will not support the hypothesis that we can only screw up so much and then divine intervention will right the ship.

Human intervention at the tiller, inspired perhaps, but still, human, will be needed here.

260 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:51:57pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

ANYTHING BUT WELL ORCHESTRATED…. (PIMF)

261 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:52:13pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

You can’t care about a company, that doesn’t care about it’s employees.
I worked for one of those, for many years.
CYA takes more efforts than doing a good job.
Sad way to run a business.

262 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:52:17pm

re: #258 Walter L. Newton

I don’t know, that’s why I asked. I haven’t kept right up on this.

He was indeed. The feds even visited him back when he first was making a big of this and basically begged him not to.

263 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:52:29pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

I don’t disbelieve you, but I am trying to find statements by Terry Jones that he knew what would happen… do you have a link.

Why would Jones say anything to show he knew he would incite violence by his actions? That would make him evil even in the eyes of his followers. You’re looking for evidence that doesn’t exist. But at least you’ve indicated what your threshold for “proof” is…full admission by the party in question.

264 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:52:43pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

After a year at this store, I don’t think anyone could convince me that the methods and style of management with this company is anything be well orchestrated.

First off, there is a total lack of meaningful communication between upper management, middle management and worker bees. The only way you can get information is if you go looking for it, document it and make sure you can back up what you learned with proof. There is a “it’s not my table” attitude that rolls right down to the employee… making the employee as the final responsible party for any lack of management direction.

You have to cover your ass constantly. Since I run the front end overnight two night a week, I have made my own contact list of home phone numbers of management and responsible upper management. Why? Because you cannot rely on the official phone lists, contact lists, paperwork on site. it’s not kept in any organized way, it’s sloppy and mistake ridden. But if I was to rely on those documents, certain things would stop cold. And it would still roll down to me.

There is never a compliment for a job well done. No meetings with management, no reviews, no acknowledgements… the only time you receive any one-on-one time from management is if you have made a mistake. And then, it’s not counseling, it’s not pro-active, it’s not designed to correct and improve… it’s simply to write you up and warn you that you have ex-amount of days not to do it again, or a suspension.

This harks back to the 30’s, full blown Scrooge management model… unbelievable. After a year of it, I can understand why we have so many employees who are very good at their jobs, but other than that, don’t give two-shits about the company, improvement or loyalty.

Sounds horrible, I can see why you’d avoid management in that type of place.

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:52:53pm

re: #243 McSpiff

I’ve worked at two call centers before. They seemed to be truly horribly run places. I thought management didn’t have a clue. After reading over a case study from the management program at my university, I discover that what I thought was incompetence was actually intentionally orchestrated. The material and call flow was designed such that an employee who had been there for 5 months would know as much as an employee who had been there for 5 years.

Turns out a high turn over rate in employees was the goal. As long as they recouped the cost of recruitment and training, and you quit before they had to give you any raises, you were a net positive for the company.

The document just went on and on detailing why the soul-sucking practises I had seen were ideal for the company. Really turned me off “Corporate management” practises.

I would WAY rather have stayed in my group home job changing adult diapers than work at a call center. Sounds like Dante’s fucking Inferno o_o

266 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:53:46pm

re: #257 Walter L. Newton

Oh, right. That’s another reason I like my current job. I’ve had two bosses that look out for and support me and show appreciation for my work. Something I’ve almost grown to take for granted.

267 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:54:47pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

I would WAY rather have stayed in my group home job changing adult diapers than work at a call center. Sounds like Dante’s fucking Inferno o_o

Which is why it’s no wonder such jobs are being shipped overseas, where they can torture foreigners with the same or even more archaic practices for less money than they’d have to pay workers back here.

268 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:55:13pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

I would WAY rather have stayed in my group home job changing adult diapers than work at a call center. Sounds like Dante’s fucking Inferno o_o

Its funny, I’m still in contact with people I worked with there years later. I’ve never had a sense of camaraderie like that anywhere else I’ve worked. Without good co-workers I would have went insane, but I actually find myself missing it once in a while. Stockholm syndrome maybe?

269 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:55:38pm

re: #262 Simply Sarah

He was indeed. The feds even visited him back when he first was making a big of this and basically begged him not to.

Of course, he *also* swore that he’d dropped the idea of burning a Koran forever and promised that he would never do it in the future. So he’s not big on honesty, either.

270 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:55:51pm

re: #264 McSpiff

Sounds horrible, I can see why you’d avoid management in that type of place.

And that’s my point… there is no way this is just poor management… as strange as it appears to me… I firmly believe this is policy.

I think my store manager summed it up one day, he sort of slipped and was real honest with me… “In 35 years in the grocery business, I never had to fire anyone working for me… they always manage to fire themselves.”

Creepy.

271 freetoken  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:56:19pm

As others may have pointed out (I haven’t read the whole thread), Muller doesn’t deny the reality of AGW. However, he really, really hates Al Gore (for some reason I’ve never understood).

In his intro physics lectures at Berkeley, Muller roasts Al Gore. Strange but true. You can watch them online (Berkeley has their physics for humanities majors classes online.)

Krugman has a good take on last weeks House hearing, too.

272 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:57:21pm

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

And that’s my point… there is no way this is just poor management… as strange as it appears to me… I firmly believe this is policy.

I think my store manager summed it up one day, he sort of slipped and was real honest with me… “In 35 years in the grocery business, I never had to fire anyone working for me… they always manage to fire themselves.”

Creepy.

I think ‘terrifying’ is the word I’d use. Well, that and ‘discouraging’. Glad to know he understands how to treat his workers. *eyerolls*

273 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:57:28pm

re: #268 McSpiff

Its funny, I’m still in contact with people I worked with there years later. I’ve never had a sense of camaraderie like that anywhere else I’ve worked. Without good co-workers I would have went insane, but I actually find myself missing it once in a while. Stockholm syndrome maybe?

Same here… I like the most of the employees immensely… and feel for them.

274 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:57:44pm

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

And that’s my point… there is no way this is just poor management… as strange as it appears to me… I firmly believe this is policy.

I think my store manager summed it up one day, he sort of slipped and was real honest with me… “In 35 years in the grocery business, I never had to fire anyone working for me… they always manage to fire themselves.”

Creepy.

Thats exactly what it is. High employee turnover isn’t viewed as a bad thing anymore. At least at the lower levels.

275 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:59:24pm

re: #267 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Which is why it’s no wonder such jobs are being shipped overseas, where they can torture foreigners with the same or even more archaic practices for less money than they’d have to pay workers back here.

Good times!

Yeah, Indian call centers are one reason I won’t buy any more “mainstream” computers. I know the people that built my machine in WA, they tested it, if I wanted to I could literally drive to their location with my workstation and go ‘hey, could you look at this?” And then go down the street to the bar that my brother likes because the place is in my hometown *_*


Nothing against India, I just despise phones, and I despise being trapped in call center mazes even more

276 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:59:55pm

re: #274 McSpiff

Thats exactly what it is. High employee turnover isn’t viewed as a bad thing anymore. At least at the lower levels.

It’s desired and/or expected. My brother thinks I’m crazy for planning to settle in at this job long term and not looking out for more. I think *he* is crazy for basically planning to remain at jobs for only a year or two before moving on to the next bigger and better one.

277 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:01:33pm

re: #268 McSpiff

Its funny, I’m still in contact with people I worked with there years later. I’ve never had a sense of camaraderie like that anywhere else I’ve worked. Without good co-workers I would have went insane, but I actually find myself missing it once in a while. Stockholm syndrome maybe?

Well, i DO know a guy with a good call center job and he does have a fun nerdy work environment. I think his gigs have been mostly information based and not sales based. But I’ve also heard stories of people having the shit intimidated out of them at call center jobs when there’s some productivity mark that must be upheld. Boiler room scummery, bleah :(

278 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:03:03pm

re: #276 Simply Sarah

It’s desired and/or expected. My brother thinks I’m crazy for planning to settle in at this job long term and not looking out for more. I think *he* is crazy for basically planning to remain at jobs for only a year or two before moving on to the next bigger and better one.

One reason I am self employed is so I can take any project that comes my way. Can’t stand just doing the same thing every day, I start taking shortcuts, my mind wanders, I have to change constantly

279 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:03:41pm

re: #272 Simply Sarah

I think ‘terrifying’ is the word I’d use. Well, that and ‘discouraging’. Glad to know he understands how to treat his workers. *eyerolls*

Flip side… it’s a job right now, paying the bills, and only 4 miles from home. And I live in the mountains, so, it’s nice not to have to drive down hill to the Denver area, especially in the winter.

I’ve been there a year, I think I’ve learned how the game is played, I can play it… until the programming business picks up… or maybe forever… what ever… I get benefits now and it won’t be long that I’m vested in some money… at my age (59) a job is a job…

I still do some programming for Kaiser from home, that keeps me happy, just got a 1000 dollar project from them this morning. The off and on projects last year paid for the vacation to Paris last Jan.

It’s cool.

280 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:04:08pm

re: #278 WindUpBird

One reason I am self employed is so I can take any project that comes my way. Can’t stand just doing the same thing every day, I start taking shortcuts, my mind wanders, I have to change constantly

Well, I get to do different things in the context of my job, so it stays fairly fresh (Or as fresh as computer programming can be, I suppose).

281 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:04:44pm

re: #271 freetoken

As others may have pointed out (I haven’t read the whole thread), Muller doesn’t deny the reality of AGW. However, he really, really hates Al Gore (for some reason I’ve never understood).

In his intro physics lectures at Berkeley, Muller roasts Al Gore. Strange but true. You can watch them online (Berkeley has their physics for humanities majors classes online.)

Krugman has a good take on last weeks House hearing, too.

Wheee human behavior! Pissing matches!


The Al Gore focus just screams “not credible to me” if someone’s whole schtick about Global Warming is freaking out about Al Gore, find me someone with some more maturity, bleah :P

282 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:05:42pm

re: #280 Simply Sarah

Well, I get to do different things in the context of my job, so it stays fairly fresh (Or as fresh as computer programming can be, I suppose).

Coders are always solving new problems ^_^

283 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:06:02pm

re: #277 WindUpBird

Well, i DO know a guy with a good call center job and he does have a fun nerdy work environment. I think his gigs have been mostly information based and not sales based. But I’ve also heard stories of people having the shit intimidated out of them at call center jobs when there’s some productivity mark that must be upheld. Boiler room scummery, bleah :(

One thing that kept me sane was knowing that I was financially secure enough for the next semester, and the worst they could do is fire me. But man, if my kids next meal was dependent on that pay cheque… oh boy, not good.

284 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:06:24pm

re: #279 Walter L. Newton

Flip side… it’s a job right now, paying the bills, and only 4 miles from home. And I live in the mountains, so, it’s nice not to have to drive down hill to the Denver area, especially in the winter.

I’ve been there a year, I think I’ve learned how the game is played, I can play it… until the programming business picks up… or maybe forever… what ever… I get benefits now and it won’t be long that I’m vested in some money… at my age (59) a job is a job…

I still do some programming for Kaiser from home, that keeps me happy, just got a 1000 dollar project from them this morning. The off and on projects last year paid for the vacation to Paris last Jan.

It’s cool.

Well, I’m glad for that. That said, this is part of why they can run things like they do. There are plenty of other people out there, especially right now, that would jump for a chance to take your place. And make less, of course.

285 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:07:06pm

re: #279 Walter L. Newton

you can code AND write AND your smart and if you can do all these things why aren’t you writing your own text adventures yet? :D


(note there’s no money in it, it just is awesome)

286 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:07:07pm

re: #282 WindUpBird

Coders are always solving new problems ^_^

Yep! I mean, sure, half of those problems are ones we made ourselves…

287 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:07:24pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

you can code AND write AND your smart and if you can do all these things why aren’t you writing your own text adventures yet? :D

(note there’s no money in it, it just is awesome)

and YOU’RE smart


YOU’RE, not your :(

288 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:08:01pm

re: #286 Simply Sarah

Yep! I mean, sure, half of those problems are ones we made ourselves…

“Wait a minute! This only returns integers! Carl, you dipshit!”

289 Amory Blaine  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:08:29pm

I wonder. What is the number of TV personality weathermen who deny global warming? Here in Wisconsin we have GOP State Representative Jim Ott, who was a TV weatherman, makes his case for denial.


If you go to Icecap.us and look at the “experts” page at the bottom, there is a list of at least 50 TV weathermen.

290 Simply Sarah  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:08:49pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

you can code AND write AND your smart and if you can do all these things why aren’t you writing your own text adventures yet? :D

(note there’s no money in it, it just is awesome)

Oh sure. You talk all about his smart, but what about my smart? It’s just as good. :(

291 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:12:03pm

re: #290 Simply Sarah

Oh sure. You talk all about his smart, but what about my smart? It’s just as good. :(

This is specifically because Walter is always talking about getting text adventures running on his ipod ;-)

YOU’RE SMART TOO, I BET YOU COULD WRITE A FUNCTIONING UI GRAPHICS LAYER unlike the people I was trying to make an indie game with

292 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:13:37pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

you can code AND write AND your smart and if you can do all these things why aren’t you writing your own text adventures yet? :D

(note there’s no money in it, it just is awesome)

I was doing that in 1982 on the Vic 20 and Commodore 64. The first full application I ever wrote was a text adventure for the Vic 20 called “The Midway.” Ten locations… two word parser… “there is a bomb hidden somewhere on the carnival midway and you have 1 hour to find it.” Fit in 3.5k of memory.

Then I graduated to the 64 and wrote “Encounter.” Needed the 1541 51/2 inch disk drive, as I had multiple flat text files along with the application. It was a Betty and Barney Hill type of UFO encounter adventure. Full plain english parser, multiple commands and actions on one line, basically imitating the Infocom engine.

293 freetoken  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:13:38pm

re: #281 WindUpBird

Muller is the guy who wrote the “Phsyics for Future Presidents” book, which is sometimes used as a textbook for “science” classes for non-science majors. He seems to be yet another late-middle age Ph.D. who is wanting his 15 minutes of fame.

294 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:14:05pm

re: #289 Amory Blaine

I wonder. What is the number of TV personality weathermen who deny global warming? Here in Wisconsin we have GOP State Representative Jim Ott, who was a TV weatherman, makes his case for denial.

If you go to Icecap.us and look at the “experts” page at the bottom, there is a list of at least 50 TV weathermen.

I think it’s because they’re on TV and they like attention, and they’re zany, and they know they have some power because they’re a Guy On TV Who Knows About Weather And People Like Them.

and then you mix that with the current climate of birchers and paranoids and black muslim overdrive and well, they all float down here

So the air in that case would be ripe for AGW stunts. it’s all just clowning, all just “look at me” base political shit.

295 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:14:51pm

re: #292 Walter L. Newton

I was doing that in 1982 on the Vic 20 and Commodore 64. The first full application I ever wrote was a text adventure for the Vic 20 called “The Midway.” Ten locations… two word parser… “there is a bomb hidden somewhere on the carnival midway and you have 1 hour to find it.” Fit in 3.5k of memory.

Then I graduated to the 64 and wrote “Encounter.” Needed the 1541 51/2 inch disk drive, as I had multiple flat text files along with the application. It was a Betty and Barney Hill type of UFO encounter adventure. Full plain english parser, multiple commands and actions on one line, basically imitating the Infocom engine.

yes! but now you can do it in natural language, for like 40 different platforms at once with a portable core file, and distribute it yourself *_*

296 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:15:16pm

re: #291 WindUpBird

This is specifically because Walter is always talking about getting text adventures running on his ipod ;-)

YOU’RE SMART TOO, I BET YOU COULD WRITE A FUNCTIONING UI GRAPHICS LAYER unlike the people I was trying to make an indie game with

I found “Frotz” with is the public domain version of the Infocom “Z” engine for the Touch… neat… but trying on the small onscreen keyboard is annoying. It came with about 20 adventures including “Zork” all for free.

297 McSpiff  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:16:08pm

re: #296 Walter L. Newton

I found “Frotz” with is the public domain version of the Infocom “Z” engine for the Touch… neat… but trying on the small onscreen keyboard is annoying. It came with about 20 adventures including “Zork” all for free.

The iPhone supports bluetooth keyboards, but at that point…

298 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:16:26pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

I would WAY rather have stayed in my group home job changing adult diapers than work at a call center. Sounds like Dante’s fucking Inferno o_o

I work at a call center. Not answering the phones, I could so totally not do that, but doing the statistical reporting on customer satisfaction metrics.

I have to give these call-takers a lot of credit. I sit between two “executive level” call-takers, which is where the dissatisfied customers get kicked up to when the lower-level call-takers can’t solve their problem. They take a lot of crap and abuse, and they manage to keep a smile in their voice and stay calm and cool.

299 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:17:28pm

re: #291 WindUpBird

This is specifically because Walter is always talking about getting text adventures running on his ipod ;-)

YOU’RE SMART TOO, I BET YOU COULD WRITE A FUNCTIONING UI GRAPHICS LAYER unlike the people I was trying to make an indie game with

P.S. You can find the disk image of “Encounter” on some archive Commodore 64 websites… you can run it in a 64 emulator… I can’t believe anyone kept a copy of the game this long and sucked it off as a disk image file.

My “company” name was “Cheap N’ Soft Software Systems.”

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:17:42pm

A guy I’m on a list with who’s always sending stuff I don’t like sent a whole article about how Lara Logan was attacked because Muslim culture sanctions rape, and now I am so mad I have sent one snarky comment, then an account of the gang rape in Richmond last year, then a Biblical verse, then an article about testimony of Bosnian Muslim women raped during the Balkan conflict and, most recently, two stories about eleven-year-old girls being gang-raped by non-Muslims in California and Florida. I was only looking for the Florida story, but it turns out that ‘gang rape of eleven-year-old’ gets you more than one story.

I have no idea why. After all, Western culture is so pure, and gynocentric.

This pisses me off from two directions. First, it’s lazy-assed faux-historical bigotry, and two, it’s pretending that somehow abuse of women in non-Muslim cultures is NON-cultural, and just sort of happens somehow.

Done ranting now.

301 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:17:51pm

re: #296 Walter L. Newton

I found “Frotz” with is the public domain version of the Infocom “Z” engine for the Touch… neat… but trying on the small onscreen keyboard is annoying. It came with about 20 adventures including “Zork” all for free.


Frotz is essential :D There’s a IF standard newer than the Z-engine called Glulx, which brings more flexibility (think 80’s graphic+text adventure games) like automaps and graphic layers and clickable objects.

302 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:17:53pm

pastor who ordered Koran burning has divided families, ex-church members say

Long before the Rev. Terry Jones threatened to burn a Koran, former parishioners say he presided over a church that he treated as a personal fiefdom, imposing a strict orthodoxy that tore apart one Gainesville family after another.

Congregants at the Dove World Outreach Center, who have dwindled to 30 or so in number, are required to vow allegiance to Jones — a pledge that places restrictions on their diets, their ability to hold jobs outside the church and their personal relationships.

For Chris Nassoiy, 25, and for most members, the last restriction is by far the most painful. He has seen his parents only once since they left the church in 2009, when he gathered his belongings from his childhood home.

“I had to tell them that we won’t be able to communicate until they apologize, until they accept the Gospel,” he said, his voice cracking. “It was a little bit wrenching.”

For his mother, Sally Nassoiy, what started as heartbreak has evolved into anger at Jones and other church officials.

“They take young people willing to devote themselves to God’s word, and they exploit them,” she said. “It’s a cult. That’s the only word I can think of to describe it.”

303 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:18:17pm

re: #297 McSpiff

The iPhone supports bluetooth keyboards, but at that point…

if I was on a long trip, damn right I’d have one of those. Sit and play Stationfall on my lap, awesome :D

304 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:18:28pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:18:46pm

re: #302 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

pastor who ordered Koran burning has divided families, ex-church members say

Oh, this sounds super-healthy!!!

306 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:20:57pm

re: #295 WindUpBird

yes! but now you can do it in natural language, for like 40 different platforms at once with a portable core file, and distribute it yourself *_*

I bookmarked that… I’ve always wanted to piddle with a text adventure engine… got to be much easier than hard coding from scratch a complete game. My code for the Commodore computers was sort of modular, so I could reuse some parts of it, but the language parser had to have all the keywords and possible input developed from the git go for each story.

307 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:21:02pm

re: #298 Alouette

I work at a call center. Not answering the phones, I could so totally not do that, but doing the statistical reporting on customer satisfaction metrics.

I have to give these call-takers a lot of credit. I sit between two “executive level” call-takers, which is where the dissatisfied customers get kicked up to when the lower-level call-takers can’t solve their problem. They take a lot of crap and abuse, and they manage to keep a smile in their voice and stay calm and cool.

I’m thinking of “guy at the desk answering phones like mad with a bigger guy telling him he needs to have X calls per hour”, the super-high turnover stuff, those are the jobs my friends had or have :D My friend who has the good call senter job would drunkenly do the script when we were at karaoke, he just had it all in his head. he digs his job though, it’s like all dorks there calling out internet memes and discussing the finer points of Fallout mods

You work for one of the big three, right?

308 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:21:35pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, this sounds super-healthy!!!

Burning the Koran was necessary, he said, even if it led to a dozen deaths, because it was a part of defending the Gospel. It wasn’t easy, and it’s something the church should be proud of, he said.

“When they were crossing the Jordan, they put their lives on the line,” he said.

“There’s only one way to stop me,” Jones told his followers, “and that’s to kill me.”

Thats just the thing, he isn’t putting his life on the line. He’s doing it thousands of miles away with the benefits of a free society protecting him.

309 blueraven  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:22:11pm

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, this sounds super-healthy!!!

Jim Jones…Terry Jones

Coincidence? hmmm. Drink the Koolaid!

310 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:23:11pm

re: #309 blueraven

Jim Jones…Terry Jones

Coincidence? hmmm. Drink the Koolaid!

Except Jim Jones was charismatic.
/

311 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:24:45pm

re: #302 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

pastor who ordered Koran burning has divided families, ex-church members say

That’s not a Church, it’s a cult!

312 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:25:24pm

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

I bookmarked that… I’ve always wanted to piddle with a text adventure engine… got to be much easier than hard coding from scratch a complete game. My code for the Commodore computers was sort of modular, so I could reuse some parts of it, but the language parser had to have all the keywords and possible input developed from the git go for each story.

Inform is so natural language it’s honestly creepy, it’s just plain english.

This is a house. The house contains the following rooms, etc etc

inside the bathroom is a sink. The sink is fixed in place.

and so on :D it gets “codey” with the natural language, but thesyntax is a lot easier on my brain *_*

313 Amory Blaine  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:25:24pm

re: #309 blueraven

Jim Jones…Terry Jones

Coincidence? hmmm. Drink the Koolaid!

To be fair, it was Flavor-Aid. :P
//

314 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:25:36pm

re: #309 blueraven

Jim Jones…Terry Jones

Coincidence? hmmm. Drink the Koolaid!

Terry Jones’ Diary

315 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:25:39pm

re: #299 Walter L. Newton

P.S. You can find the disk image of “Encounter” on some archive Commodore 64 websites… you can run it in a 64 emulator… I can’t believe anyone kept a copy of the game this long and sucked it off as a disk image file.

My “company” name was “Cheap N’ Soft Software Systems.”

P.S.S… except for the disk image of the game that I found on the internet… I don’t even have an original copy of the files and program code.

And silly me. I use to review software for a Commodore magazine. So, once a month, I would get a package with 15-20 Commodore software titles, and I would review them and send my reviews to the magazine.

In one package was a beta copy of a Commodore 64 Basic compiler, which would take the tokenize Commodore Basic and turn it into a pseudo-code. So, I used my adventure “Encounter” as a test for the compiler. It worked… so good that now, the disk image I have of the game is the compiled code… and I have not found anyway to decompile it so I can get back the Basic source code… I would love to convert the game to VB or something… no dice… I’ve investigate this over and over… no way to crack it.

The compiler worked… too well.

316 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:25:48pm

re: #313 Amory Blaine

To be fair, it was Flavor-Aid. :P
//

murderer nerd!

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:26:39pm

re: #309 blueraven

Jim Jones…Terry Jones

Coincidence? hmmm. Drink the Koolaid!

I think there are plenty of Joneses who aren’t insane cult leaders. The REAL Terry Jones, for example.

318 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:27:23pm

re: #302 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

pastor who ordered Koran burning has divided families, ex-church members say

Oh, we’re good old fashioned, God-fearin’ American bigots! We don’t like the excessive bigotry of burning holy books and then getting our faces on the news! Honestly, we never thought he’d go through with it! Now our neighbors won’t let their kids near ours for some strange reason…

Fuckwits.

319 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:27:52pm

re: #293 freetoken

Muller is the guy who wrote the “Phsyics for Future Presidents” book, which is sometimes used as a textbook for “science” classes for non-science majors. He seems to be yet another late-middle age Ph.D. who is wanting his 15 minutes of fame.

so it’s like good guy, but crazy about his stunts. Ayiee

Just sucks, we have so much silly grandstanding about this stuff, how many times doe sit have to be proven and reproven and reporven and oh BTW AL GORE

320 darthstar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:27:59pm

re: #314 WindUpBird

Terry Jones’ Diary

That got burned.

321 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:29:01pm

re: #320 darthstar

That got burned.

because secretly he admits he loves Cat Stevens on page 82

and all his “i’s” are dotted with hearts

322 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:29:16pm

Off topic, but you guys really need to see how delusional the trolls at the Al-Jazeera live blog have gotten. It’s amazing. Poe’s Law in action.

323 unrememberable  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:39:43pm

re: #322 ProLifeLiberal

Can you please clarify?

324 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:43:36pm

re: #323 unrememberable

The Pro-Qaddafi Trolls have worked themselves up to the point where there a multiple posting about how Qaddafi is loved, how the rebels will be crushed, and general delusions. Considering the fact the the rebels are more organized and retaking parts of Brega they lost (albeit slowly, but this may be a good thing. Allows more thorough elimination of Gaddafi’s forces, and keeps them from doing the mistake they did last time.). Also, there has been increasing talk of instability within the regime.

It fascinating to see how disconnected one can be from reality.

325 Stanghazi  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:45:53pm

re: #324 ProLifeLiberal

The Pro-Qaddafi Trolls have worked themselves up to the point where there a multiple posting about how Qaddafi is loved, how the rebels will be crushed, and general delusions. Considering the fact the the rebels are more organized and retaking parts of Brega they lost (albeit slowly, but this may be a good thing. Allows more thorough elimination of Gaddafi’s forces, and keeps them from doing the mistake they did last time.). Also, there has been increasing talk of instability within the regime.

It fascinating to see how disconnected one can be from reality.

And I am thankful for your diligence in following this. I search out your posts. :)

326 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:48:47pm

re: #325 Stanley Sea

Thanks! It looks like Qaddafi is trying to save himself.

12:31am
Libya has said Gaddafi must stay, but the country is ready to discuss reforming its political system, Reuters reports.

The government said only Libyans themselves can decided if Gaddafi should stay or not.

and a few minutes later:

12:37am
The Libyan government says it’s ready to hold elections, a referendum or any other reform to its political system, Reuters reports.

I don’t think it will work though, after the way Qaddafi slaughtered thousands of his own people.

327 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 4:01:20pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I saw all that. i’m home today, don’t want to cough on the food - chef instructors and fellow students tend to frown on that sort of thing.

Isn’t it amazing that despite one’s high level of professional achievement and education, that they can still be terribly anti-intellectual and shallow? Rhetorical.

Anyway, good for you.

i read the article about the rape of the Bosnian women. Horrific.

328 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 4:02:40pm

re: #326 ProLifeLiberal

Also, the rebels have become very imaginative with their weaponry. This is from the live blog yesterday at 5:21 pm:

We have seen some extra weapons coming in today, what looked like very different weapons from what we’ve seen before, some sort of cylindrical multi-rocket launchers. They look like they came off aircraft, I’m told by people who know a bit more than I do that they look like they were attached to possibly helicopters, and have been fashioned and modified to sit on the back of pick up trucks.

329 Kragar  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 4:06:01pm

re: #328 ProLifeLiberal

Also, the rebels have become very imaginative with their weaponry. This is from the live blog yesterday at 5:21 pm:

Technical (vehicle)

A technical is a type of improvised fighting vehicle, typically a civilian or military non-combat vehicle, modified to provide an offensive capability. It is usually an open-backed civilian pickup truck or four-wheel drive vehicle mounting a machine gun, light anti-aircraft gun, recoilless rifle, or other support weapon.

330 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 4:17:31pm

re: #329 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Usually, a technical doesn’t have that kinda weaponry on it. That truck just became important. Hopefully, it has some anti-tank missiles in it.

331 Achilles Tang  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 4:36:37pm

re: #243 McSpiff


Turns out a high turn over rate in employees was the goal. As long as they recouped the cost of recruitment and training, and you quit before they had to give you any raises, you were a net positive for the company.

This is nothing new and one reason unions were formed. In this age it is called “churn and burn”, particularly in sales.

Hire some poor graduate eager to earn a living. Wow them with buzz and superficial training. Give them quotas that could make them millionaires, but they don’t know better. Pay them a pittance with fantastic commission and lead promises.

Let them loose to find new customers, or prospects more likely (prospecting), then if they don’t burn themselves out or show too much idealism burn them out and give all their leads and possibly some accounts to their sales managers to use as carrots for the next batch of minimum wage suckers.

332 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 5:55:16pm

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

I assume that Muller is an honest scientist who’s not going to hide data that disagrees with his previous beliefs.

I also assume that if he’s working for UC Berkeley, he realizes that giving that up by getting caught fucking with the data would be pretty stupid.

Among real scientists, even those who say they are skeptical about AGW are mostly genuine skeptics, rather than out and out bought and paid for tools.

A genuine skeptic is hardly anathema in the world of science. All he has to do to keep his honor is to be convinced once he gets a good solid look at good solid evidence.

This is exactly what’s happening with Muller. It was to have been expected.

333 lostlakehiker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 6:02:52pm

re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah and the other side has no rhetorical restraint.. So who is winning? How is that “high road” working out for us?

Never lie about the science, or anything, but call these whores what thy are openly.

Calling them liars is fair enough. If the shoe fits, they have to wear it. The edits I suggested were because as written, it read as though it applied to all the innocently ignorant folk who have, up to now, and for the time being, fallen for those lies.

Saul Alinsky was no fool. I even met him once in person. I didn’t agree then, and I don’t agree now, with his aims. But I have to recognize that he played the side he played for with great skill.

If you want to convince people of something that to them seems radical, it’s best to come across as rather conventional and normal in mien and tone.

That way, you don’t distract the audience from the content of the message, or put them off. The leadership, they’re not open to being persuaded. They’re probably smart enough, and well enough informed, they already know it’s all lies.

The followers don’t. They think they’re good people holding firm against wild eyed radicals. What they really are is an ordinary mix of good people and middling half and halfs, and they’re holding firm against an uncomfortable message. They don’t want to hear it like some people don’t want to hear they’ve got cancer.

334 kirkspencer  Tue, Apr 5, 2011 6:33:35am

re: #247 kirkspencer

Not where I am, and I’m about to go offline. That said, I’ll look for it when I get to the computer again and send it via your blue-link.

sent. email says:
Some Terry Jones comments.

’We plan to continue,’ Jones said. ’We understand the generals
concerns, we are taking those into consideration.’ (in response to
“en. David Petraeus said Tuesday the Koran burning could endanger U.S.
troops and the safety of Americans worldwide. He says images of the
Koran burning would be used by Islamic extremists to inflame and
incite violence.”)
[Link: www.myfoxorlando.com…]

“Jones said he and members of his church are taking seriously several
death threats directed at them, but if something happened, it would
not be their fault.
“We will not be responsible,” Jones said. “We are only reacting to the
violence that is already there in that religion.” (in other words,
it’s expected, but it’s not “our fault” they object.)
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

see also the video article which includes his own comments at
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]


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