He should just play clips of him calling Kanye West a jackass over and over. That'd boost him.

Sort-of on topic:

Elizabeth Warren Announces Her Bid for Senate

Great use of satire, IMO. People are very frustrated with the financial industry these days. But I'd ask them to look at the situation more closely before getting mad. With Europe in a very bad spot, is now the time to really move if you're a bank? Or would the better move be to sit on our cash and wait for more stable times.

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Great use of satire, IMO. People are very frustrated with the financial industry these days. But I'd ask them to look at the situation more closely before getting mad. With Europe in a very bad spot, is now the time to really move if you're a bank? Or would the better move be to sit on our cash and wait for more stable times.

Oh geez, Dark. Please don't try that.

Why is Canada weathering the crisis so much better than us, with their much-more-regulated banking industry?

And I thought private industry led, that it innovated, that it drove the market. The recent right-wing perspective seems to be a financial industry that's completely reactive, that will never invest in anything before it's safe. So who leads the way? Government?

Punch a banker, crowd cheers.

Drone a terrorist, the same crowd boos.

He's so screwed.

(yes, I know he really didn't punch a banker.)

re: #5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Solution: Play to a different crowd, that appreciates both (metaphorical) banker-punching and terrorist-droning. Or at least doesn't have strong objections to one or the other.

re: #5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Punch a banker, crowd cheers.

Drone a terrorist, the same crowd boos.

He's so screwed.

(yes, I know he really didn't punch a banker.)

Maybe he needs to try droning a banker.
/

re: #5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Punch a banker, crowd cheers.

Drone a terrorist, the same crowd boos.

He's so screwed.

(yes, I know he really didn't punch a banker.)

Yeah, it's a problem.

re: #4 Obdicut

Oh geez, Dark. Please don't try that.

Why is Canada weathering the crisis so much better than us, with their much-more-regulated banking industry?

And I thought private industry led, that it innovated, that it drove the market. The recent right-wing perspective seems to be a financial industry that's completely reactive, that will never invest in anything before it's safe. So who leads the way? Government?

You can't expect hated people to lead the way in a bad economic climate. Especially when you have protesters demanding changes as well. Moreover, they still don't know if the housing market has stabilized.

So the banks may have cash on hand, but their risk exposure is often too high to lend much of it out. That cash is being held in reserve until the risks are reduced.

The anti-war left has been highly critical of Obama since about the beginning of his administration.

They are not as large a body as people think. The anti-war left are the ones who were against the Afghanistan war. The left that was against the Iraq war was a much, much broader base.

re: #10 Obdicut

The anti-war left are the ones who were against the Afghanistan war. The left that was against the Iraq war was a much, much broader base.

Yup. That's also the reason why Germany participated in the invasion of Afghanistan but kept out of Iraq.

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

You can't expect hated people to lead the way in a bad economic climate. Especially when you have protesters demanding changes as well. Moreover, they still don't know if the housing market has stabilized.

So the banks may have cash on hand, but their risk exposure is often too high to lend much of it out. That cash is being held in reserve until the risks are reduced.

Banks have never lead the way. They manipulate much more than then create.

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

You can't expect hated people to lead the way in a bad economic climate.

Why? How do their feelings come into this? This isn't kindergarten.

Especially when you have protesters demanding changes as well. Moreover, they still don't know if the housing market has stabilized.

They don't know that, but they're busy creating even more complex financial instruments, setting up yet another meltdown. Saying that they've become risk-adverse is untrue.

So the banks may have cash on hand, but their risk exposure is often too high to lend much of it out. That cash is being held in reserve until the risks are reduced.

Again: What will reduce the risks? If private industry can't be counted on to stabilize the markets, do you understand you're implicitly calling on government to do so?

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

You can't expect hated people to lead the way in a bad economic climate. Especially when you have protesters demanding changes as well. Moreover, they still don't know if the housing market has stabilized.

So the banks may have cash on hand, but their risk exposure is often too high to lend much of it out. That cash is being held in reserve until the risks are reduced.

It almost sounds like you're saying they 'can't lead' because people have hurt their feelings.

Just bought a 42" Plasma TV.

I'm feeling like one of the 1%.

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, you're not. So don't feel too bad.

Occupy It News

re: #16 Obdicut

Well, you're not. So don't feel too bad.

Did I say I felt bad?
/

OWS at MLK memorial [Link: instagr.am...]

re: #17 recusancy

The whois on him returns a guy actually named who he claims to be, so it very well could be legit. I wish he'd say a bit more about himself, though.

Andrew Breitbart has now blocked me on Twitter, because he was getting beaten like a red-headed stepchild.

Meanwhile, he's calling OWS protesters "filth & vermin:" Twitter / @AndrewBreitbart: Your side is constitutiona ...

Your side is constitutionally protected to falsely claim tea party is racist. My side protected to comment on filth & vermin.

re: #13 Obdicut

They don't know that, but they're busy creating even more complex financial instruments, setting up yet another meltdown. Saying that they've become risk-adverse is untrue.

Evidence?

Again: What will reduce the risks? If private industry can't be counted on to stabilize the markets, do you understand you're implicitly calling on government to do so?

In the matter of the European risks, I don't think there is much the US can do. We pretty much have to wait in the doldrums for things to be sorted out.

For the remaining housing problems? Yes, that may require government action. I don't like that idea, but it may not be avoidable.

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just bought a 42" Plasma TV.

I'm feeling like one of the 1%.

Nothing wrong with being in the 1% IMO. There is something wrong with being rich and complaining about a 3% tax increase.

Enjoy the new television.

re: #19 recusancy

Their legs must be tired.

/

(that's Occupy Washington DC)

From '09: Obama to Bankers: I’m Standing ‘Between You and the Pitchforks’

He warned them.

re: #10 Obdicut

The anti-war left has been highly critical of Obama since about the beginning of his administration.

They are not as large a body as people think. The anti-war left are the ones who were against the Afghanistan war. The left that was against the Iraq war was a much, much broader base.

Shit many on the left criticized Iraq because they felt it diverted resources from Afghanistan. That was one of my problems honest.

re: #13 Obdicut

Again: What will reduce the risks? If private industry can't be counted on to stabilize the markets, do you understand you're implicitly calling on government to do so?

Well, he's implicitly saying that once a Republican is President, the banks will feel much better, and all will be well again. Because what's important is that they feel good. And they just can't trust Democrats.

Sure, it's spurious fantasy. But it's the essence of the argument.

re: #24 Obdicut

Their legs must be tired.

/

(that's Occupy Washington DC)

huh? Oh I get it... Yeah I guess I shouldn't use "OWS" indiscriminately. I've just been using that for every location.

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Evidence?

Um, you think that they've stopped creating securities, or that they've suddenly begun doing accurate risk assessments on them, or what?

The regulatory environment is largely the same.

In the matter of the European risks, I don't think there is much the US can do. We pretty much have to wait in the doldrums for things to be sorted out.

Really? And how will Europe sort out their 'risks', eh? I assume you mean their threats of default and the increased financing problems caused by their austerity measures. You mean that private banking in the US is going to have to wait until European governments start stimulus-spending appropriately, or what?

For the remaining housing problems? Yes, that may require government action. I don't like that idea, but it may not be avoidable.

Okay. Just so I'm clear, the new right-wing economic paradigm is that the private banking industry cannot be depended on, in a time of global economic crisis, to actually help us recover from a recession, they are a passive player in it, only able to react, not to actually provide impetus themselves?

Seeing a lot of tweets from liberals pissed off about the antisemites glomming onto OWS.

re: #28 recusancy

Well, viz. my earlier conversation, calling them each by name is helpful especially when some are far whackier than others.

Tea Party is manifestly clean & well-behaved.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Heh. Irony.

re: #30 Charles

Seeing a lot of tweets from liberals pissed off about the antisemites glomming onto OWS.

I am not surprised. I don't use twitter but Antisemitism and bigotry as a whole piss me off.

re: #21 Charles

Meanwhile, he's calling OWS protesters "filth & vermin:" Twitter / @AndrewBreitbart: Your side is constitutiona ...

Ah yes...this scholar is referencing the classic Supreme Court case of Rubber v. Glue!

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just bought a 42" Plasma TV.

I'm feeling like one of the 1%.

If you were one of the 1% you could buy a warehouse of 42" plasma tvs and share. You will share won't you? /

re: #15 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just bought a 42" Plasma TV.

I'm feeling like one of the 1%.

Feel like a boss, do you?

;-P

I love the way his right hand is positioned. Pinky out, thumb up, POW with the left. Precious.

re: #29 Obdicut

Um, you think that they've stopped creating securities, or that they've suddenly begun doing accurate risk assessments on them, or what?

The regulatory environment is largely the same.

That is assumption, not evidence. Your point is not supported unless you can provide an example of a new type or issue of securities that carries inordinate risks.

Really? And how will Europe sort out their 'risks', eh? I assume you mean their threats of default and the increased financing problems caused by their austerity measures. You mean that private banking in the US is going to have to wait until European governments start stimulus-spending appropriately, or what?

Okay. Just so I'm clear, the new right-wing economic paradigm is that the private banking industry cannot be depended on, in a time of global economic crisis, to actually help us recover from a recession, they are a passive player in it, only able to react, not to actually provide impetus themselves?

No, and don't scribe the entire "right-wing" to me. Unless I clearly say otherwise, I'm speaking for myself.

Let me ask you, Obdicut: Would you loan out money aggressively in a time of such risk?

re: #14 Simply Sarah

It almost sounds like you're saying they 'can't lead' because people have hurt their feelings.

I never expected our "captains of industry" to be such pants pissing cowards.

Ugh
I knew reading the comments at TP stories about Israel would give me the creeps: [Link: thinkprogress.org...]

the difference between OWS and the teabaggers is that OWS is protesting the unfairness of a reality where wall st gets a trillion dollar bailout and bonuses and the unemployed get lectures from herman cain about how it's all their own fault

they are saying "we're mad as hell at this economic unfairness and we're not going to take it anymore"

the teabaggers are saying "we're mad as hell at whatever the republican party tells us to be mad at and we're not going to take any more delay in immediately implementing everything the republican party has proposed

it is even possible to imagine tea party protests under a republican president and congress?

billionaires getting all the breaks while people who are shit out of luck getting pious lectures and the back of the hand is something anybody can relate to

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

That is assumption, not evidence. Your point is not supported unless you can provide an example of a new type or issue of securities that carries inordinate risks.

No, and don't scribe the entire "right-wing" to me. Unless I clearly say otherwise, I'm speaking for myself.

Let me ask you, Obdicut: Would you loan out money aggressively in a time of such risk?

They had no trouble risking the world economy with their little mortgage schemes.
Or have you forgotten that they were the primary cause of the collapse?

re: #41 000G

Jooforpal Palestino
Being a Jew we have to come to the Grips that Blankfiend of Goldman Sachs is a Jew, and alot of the Greed that has been casted out on to the americans were done by our tribe!
Reply · 2 · Like
· Follow Post · Yesterday at 12:05am

Perry Logan · Top Commenter · University of Michigan
Israel is doing more harm to the Jewish cause than all the anti-Semites in the world.
Reply · 1 · Like
· Follow Post · Yesterday at 11:48am

SoundMusic, Inc.
What are you talking about? the rhetoric of hate is coming from these few powerful Zionists like Loeb who think that America is Israel's piggy bank, and that apartheid and serial murder of Palestinians is their right.
Reply · 4 · Like

C Bryan King · Field Accountant bei LPR Construction
How is standing up for Palestinian rights anti-Semitic? Arabs (and therefore Palestinians) are a Semitic people.

Alan Folsom · Art Center College of Design
Is "anti-semitism" the last defense of a scoundrel? Sounds like it, Mr. Kristol. We're not anti-semites, we're anti-gangsters, Anti-thieves. Anti-bought-off politicians. Anti-murderers of 9/11. Now, Zionists are a different matter. We don't like them because they're criminally insane and are responsible for 9/11. Any questions, Bill? Have you ever thought about getting religion?

re: #41 000G

Ugh
I knew reading the comments at TP stories about Israel would give me the creeps: [Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Yeah. I recently started visiting Dkos again for OWS news. I try not to click on their threads about Israel.

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

That is assumption, not evidence. Your point is not supported unless you can provide an example of a new type or issue of securities that carries inordinate risks.

Because they were accurately rated last time, right? The whole point of designed to fail is that the turds are gold plated and doused in Febreze. Your caveats are deliberately designed to ignore the uncorrected structural deficiencies that led to the market failure.

re: #42 engineer dog

the difference between OWS and the teabaggers is that OWS is protesting the unfairness of a reality where wall st gets a trillion dollar bailout and bonuses and the unemployed get lectures from herman cain about how it's all their own fault

they are saying "we're mad as hell at this economic unfairness and we're not going to take it anymore"

the teabaggers are saying "we're mad as hell at whatever the republican party tells us to be mad at and we're not going to take any more delay in immediately implementing everything the republican party has proposed

it is even possible to imagine tea party protests under a republican president and congress?

billionaires getting all the breaks while people who are shit out of luck getting pious lectures and the back of the hand is something anybody can relate to

I for one can't imagine the Tea Party protests taking off under a Republican congress and president. Call me a skeptic but it seems to me that the Republican base really only started giving a damn about the debt after Obama became president. Yes, there were individual conservative writers that criticized the Bush administration's spending but there was no anger in the bae about his spending and many of the same Congressional Republicans who now rail against Obama for being a "socialist" had no problem supporting Bush's spending. They're hypocrites. Not to mention the fact they see nothing wrong with the government limit a woman's legal right to choose or demonizing gay mariage.

re: #44 000G

It's a little like the Fox Nation threads when they're accused of racism they respond by spewing racism. A lot of people just can't control themselves.

re: #44 000G

Sigh fucking asses.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

It's a little like the Fox Nation threads when they're accused of racism they respond by spewing racism. A lot of people just can't control themselves.

They changed their comments system a couple of months ago. The old ones got wiped AFAIK. I noticed that when I wanted to go back to their article on that latest AIPAC conference with Obama attending (hit piece, but the comments were far uglier – now all gone). Now it's all outsourced to Facebook.

re: #44 000G
AIPAC Gives Koch A Pass For Flouting Iran Sanctions

No wonder Hitler stayed in power so long and why Iran laughs at the US headlines and the attacks on Muslims. It's all a front as the US corporations are given the enemy the equitment to build weapons to use to attack yet again the USA.

It's always sad to see this stuff on progressive sites but it's actually fairly common.
I suspect Charles would prefer we not pursue this topic too much but it's not surprising.

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

That is assumption, not evidence. Your point is not supported unless you can provide an example of a new type or issue of securities that carries inordinate risks.

They have increased exposure to derivatives during many quarters since the meltdown.

[Link: www.occ.gov...]

If you're asking for the name of a particular new security, I can't tell you, that. I'll happily modify my statement to "They have not reduced their exposure to credit default swaps by nearly enough in the wake of the meltdown."

No, and don't scribe the entire "right-wing" to me. Unless I clearly say otherwise, I'm speaking for myself.

Okay. So how does Europe get out if its woes, then? What has to happen?

Let me ask you, Obdicut: Would you loan out money aggressively in a time of such risk?

Yes. But it's a facile question; I don't have the money, so I can say whatever I want.

However, I know that if I keep the money, I'm going to 'lose' it slowly to inflation. A lot of people are trying to invest in bonds, to the extent that those are getting a little risky as well. There's no safe place for investment to hide.

To me, the purpose of investment is not to hide, or get a garunteed return, but to do something cool and interesting with my money that I thin is an actually cool thing. So if I had money to lend, I believe I would, to industries, companies, and groups I believed in.

I do not understand the new paradigm whereby finance is a shrinking violet away from risk, when they just, during the meltdown, proved themselves massively reckless. Are you saying that the financial industry is now gun-shy after fucking up so hideously?

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Yeah. I recently started visiting Dkos again for OWS news. I try not to click on their threads about Israel.

It's why I shun TP a lot even though they do excellent research a lot of times. If they can't get their act together about Israel or police their community about it then it's not worth much to me.

Germans tend to be a little bit weird like that.

re: #47 HappyWarrior

I for one can't imagine the Tea Party protests taking off under a Republican congress and president. Call me a skeptic but it seems to me that the Republican base really only started giving a damn about the debt after Obama became president. Yes, there were individual conservative writers that criticized the Bush administration's spending but there was no anger in the bae about his spending and many of the same Congressional Republicans who now rail against Obama for being a "socialist" had no problem supporting Bush's spending. They're hypocrites. Not to mention the fact they see nothing wrong with the government limit a woman's legal right to choose or demonizing gay mariage.

They are focused like a lazer on jobs.

re: #52 Obdicut

Yeah, I think they are a bit worried about getting burned again.

re: #51 Killgore Trout

This is the one I meant, btw: [Link: thinkprogress.org...]

No comments anymore. Lots of "Israel firster" crap that I remember, though.

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, I think they are a bit worried about getting burned again.

They only have themselves to blame for getting burned in the first place.

I am researching Antisemitism in Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century for my term paper on Russian history during the revolutionary era. I have to admit I cringe a bitwhen I hear someone say they are Anti-Zionist since that statement is usually followed by anti-Jewish crap.

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, I think they are a bit worried about getting burned again.

Getting burned? They burned themselves. They lit the fire. They created the CDOs. They failed to assess the risk. They made the profits, and then got bailed out of a lot of the losses.

How did they get burned?

re: #59 Obdicut

Getting burned? They burned themselves. They lit the fire. They created the CDOs. They failed to assess the risk. They made the profits, and then got bailed out of a lot of the losses.

How did they get burned?

People said mean things about them.

re: #53 000G

What do you think about "anti-Germans"? Sounds like bigotry.

re: #42 engineer dog

30 years without a peep.

re: #59 Obdicut

Getting burned? They burned themselves. They lit the fire. They created the CDOs. They failed to assess the risk. They made the profits, and then got bailed out of a lot of the losses.

How did they get burned?

Have to agree. They went under-regulated and the practices they did led to a lot of economic problems. And people are pissed. It's hard to have much sympathy for them honest.

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Even Alan goddamn Greenspan admitted this.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

“Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself included, are in a state of shocked disbelief,” he told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

...

He noted that the immense and largely unregulated business of spreading financial risk widely, through the use of exotic financial instruments called derivatives, had gotten out of control and had added to the havoc of today’s crisis. As far back as 1994, Mr. Greenspan staunchly and successfully opposed tougher regulation on derivatives.

But on Thursday, he agreed that the multitrillion-dollar market for credit default swaps, instruments originally created to insure bond investors against the risk of default, needed to be restrained.

“This modern risk-management paradigm held sway for decades,” he said. “The whole intellectual edifice, however, collapsed in the summer of last year.”

...

Many Republican lawmakers on the oversight committee tried to blame the mortgage meltdown on the unchecked growth of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the giant government-sponsored mortgage-finance companies that were placed in a government conservatorship last month. Republicans have argued that Democratic lawmakers blocked measures to reform the companies.

But Mr. Greenspan, who was first appointed by President Ronald Reagan, placed far more blame on the Wall Street companies that bundled subprime mortgages into pools and sold them as mortgage-backed securities. Global demand for the securities was so high, he said, that Wall Street companies pressured lenders to lower their standards and produce more “paper.”

“The evidence strongly suggests that without the excess demand from securitizers, subprime mortgage originations (undeniably the original source of the crisis) would have been far smaller and defaults accordingly far lower,” he said.

re: #58 HappyWarrior

I am researching Antisemitism in Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century for my term paper on Russian history during the revolutionary era. I have to admit I cringe a bitwhen I hear someone say they are Anti-Zionist since that statement is usually followed by anti-Jewish crap.

Anti-Zionism was (and is) a standard cover for antisemitism, especially in the Soviet Union (which is not to say that anti-Zionism is automatically antisemitic). Usually one can distinguish antisemitism when "Zionists" is used in non-Israel related context.

E.g. I had a "debate" on a Holocaust denial forum once with a neo-Nazi who was all like "well, why didn't Zionist Kaganovich do this or that". Obviously, when a guy calls an obvious anti-Zionist like Kaganovich a "Zionist", he is merely using the word to mean "a Jew". The moderator of that forum in fact instructed the less experienced members that they shouldn't say "Jews", etc., and use softer language like "Jewish supremacists" and "Zionists".

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

30 years without a peep.

exactly

it took them that long to figure out they were being lied to

Is this true?

The NATO intervention in Yugoslavia in 1999 was also a focus of opposition for the Anti-Germans, as for most of the radical left. Many Anti-Germans condemned the war as a repetition of the political constellation of forces during the Second World War, with the Serbs in the role of victim of German imperialism. Some Anti-Germans thus issued a call for "unconditional" support for the regime of Slobodan Milošević.[citation needed]

re: #61 Sergey Romanov

What do you think about "anti-Germans"? Sounds like bigotry.

lol, that's a loaded question. I don't know how to answer that. Can you specify?

re: #68 000G

lol, that's a loaded question. I don't know how to answer that. Can you specify?

I find the name problematic, to say the least. Are they a bunch of wackos? Seems like it from wiki description.

re: #67 Sergey Romanov

Is this true?

Yup. Some Anti-Germans, like Jürgen Elsässer, to this day are deniers of Srebrenica, for instance.

re: #65 Sergey Romanov

Anti-Zionism was (and is) a standard cover for antisemitism, especially in the Soviet Union (which is not to say that anti-Zionism is automatically antisemitic). Usually one can distinguish antisemitism when "Zionists" is used in non-Israel related context.

E.g. I had a "debate" on a Holocaust denial forum once with a neo-Nazi who was all like "well, why didn't Zionist Kaganovich do this or that". Obviously, when a guy calls an obvious anti-Zionist like Kaganovich a "Zionist", he is merely using the word to mean "a Jew". The moderator of that forum in fact instructed the less experienced members that they shouldn't say "Jews", etc., and use softer language like "Jewish supremacists" and "Zionists".

I think you're right that the key is seeing it in a context where Israel is not related. That's crazy that you debated Holocaust deniers. I've never met one thankfully. I am not surprised the forum's mod did that because that seems to be what I see David Duke doing whenever I see him appear on a network that's giving him a sympathetic ear. Kind of like how racial supremacists like now to emphaize they're racial separatists rather than supremacists.

re: #58 HappyWarrior

I am researching Antisemitism in Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century for my term paper on Russian history during the revolutionary era. I have to admit I cringe a bitwhen I hear someone say they are Anti-Zionist since that statement is usually followed by anti-Jewish crap.

It's one of those loud dogwhistle terms "Anti Zionist" very often means "Anti-Semite, but not about to admit it right upfront". Just like saying "Evolution is just one of many valid theories" means "I beilieve that God made the world in six days 6,000 years ago but I am not going to admit that up front".

Burning Carabinieri paramilitary police vehicle during the protest in Rome

re: #70 000G

Yup. Some Anti-Germans, like Jürgen Elsässer, to this day are deniers of Srebrenica, for instance.

That's a true black hole of stupidity.

re: #69 Sergey Romanov

I find the name problematic, to say the least. Are they a bunch of wackos? Seems like it from wiki description.

I'd say largely wacko, for sure. The name is reflective of an anti-nationalism and anti-imperialism specifically aimed at Germany. It can be problematic, yes.

re: #71 HappyWarrior

I don't mean to say that "Zionism" rhetoric cannot be antisemitic in I-P context (it often is). I only mean it's easier to distinguish in non-I-P contexts.

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Burning Carabinieri paramilitary police vehicle during the protest in Rome

[Video]
Reportedly the police escaped alive.

These are OWS plus: Italy is facing severe budget cuts, and this issue has glommed onto the general OWS sentiment.

Imagine OWS if the US government had just announced it was going to cut all government programs by 30%.

re: #76 Sergey Romanov

I don't mean to say that "Zionism" rhetoric cannot be antisemitic in I-P context (it often is). I only mean it's easier to distinguish in non-I-P contexts.

Nah dude I know what you meant. It's a lot easier for me to see someone's an Anti-Semite when they're raving about the "Zionist bankers" "Zionist media" etc.

re: #72 ralphieboy

There's also the problem that so many anti-Zionists get convinced that the founding of Israel is wrong because, basically, it's one of the few nations born in this century. The foundation of every nation is indefensible, really, in the end, we almost all come from people who were invaders and suppressors and killers on a grand scale. Those launching the criticism of Israel's lack of right to exist are doing so from countries that nobody in the least threatens the existence of. Those anti-Zionists annoy me; they can be very non anti-semitic, but their double standard is such a selfish and benighted one.

re: #78 HappyWarrior

Nah dude I know what you meant. It's a lot easier for me to see someone's an Anti-Semite when they're raving about the "Zionist bankers" "Zionist media" etc.

Interestingly, that's where the Nazis and wackier Commies converge.

re: #59 Obdicut

Getting burned? They burned themselves. They lit the fire. They created the CDOs. They failed to assess the risk. They made the profits, and then got bailed out of a lot of the losses.

How did they get burned?

I went camping a few years ago and the guy in the site across from us got frustrated with his BBQ, it wasn't lighting fast enough. So he takes a can of white gas, not starter which would have been stupid enough, but white fucking gas and starts dumping it on the hot coals. Everything goes predictably wrong. Instant hellfire shoots up the stream to the can, which he throws on the ground where it detonates into a small ground fire. He starts stomping on the fire and his shoe ignites, burning his foot.

re: #77 ralphieboy

And if there really was a proto-fascist in charge of the government. If Rupert Murdoch was president of the US, basically.

re: #76 Sergey Romanov

I don't mean to say that "Zionism" rhetoric cannot be antisemitic in I-P context (it often is). I only mean it's easier to distinguish in non-I-P contexts.

I support the right of Israel to exist, but I do not support all of the current israeli government's policies, especially concerning new settlements. Does that make me an anti-Zionist or just an anti-Semite?

re: #79 Obdicut

Not to mention that Israel's current legitimacy is not tied to whatever happened in 1948.

re: #77 ralphieboy

These are OWS plus: Italy is facing severe budget cuts, and this issue has glommed onto the general OWS sentiment.

Imagine what OWS if the US government had just announced it was going to cut all government programs by 30%.

Plus the fact that Berlusconi fiddles while Rome burns. If the American President was as giant of a tool as him, I think both the OWS and Tea Party would look a hell of a lot more radical.

re: #83 ralphieboy

I support the right of Israel to exist, but I do not support all of the current israeli government's policies, especially concerning new settlements. Does that make me an anti-Zionist or just an anti-Semite?

Neither. Although Pam would disagree.

The Anti-Germans stuff was interesting to read. Especially the parts about them basically celebrating Dresden.

re: #74 Dark_Falcon

That's a true black hole of stupidity.

Must you dis stupid black holes???
/

re: #86 Sergey Romanov

Neither. Although Pam would disagree.

Darn. No wonder I keep striking out. My whole life is about impressing Pam enough to get her to go off on a daiquiri-binge weekend trip to Cadaquez with me...

re: #77 ralphieboy

These are OWS plus: Italy is facing severe budget cuts, and this issue has glommed onto the general OWS sentiment.

Imagine OWS if the US government had just announced it was going to cut all government programs by 30%.

The Greek debt crisis has caused Italy's ability to pay its sovereign debt into question. Banks and other debt holders are worried about default, and the fears are becoming something of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

re: #87 HappyWarrior

The Anti-Germans stuff was interesting to read. Especially the parts about them basically celebrating Dresden.

That's just creepy. Whatever one might think about the legitimacy of the bombing, celebrating the death of 25,000 men, women and children is just sick.

re: #80 Sergey Romanov

Interestingly, that's where the Nazis and wackier Commies converge.

one of our problems as jews is that we are traditionally imagined to be at the heart of both international finance as well as the international communist conspiracy

apparently our evil plan is to glom all the money in the world for ourselves and then have a revolution and force ourselves to redistribute it all evenly

re: #45 Killgore Trout

Well, most people don't really understand Isreal/Palistine. I remember, vaguely, images of Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks, and thinking Isreal was a bully. I was a kid, it was the 80's, we had CBS, ABC, and NBC as our sources.
To be frank, much of my opinion was formed by my mom; black, a boomer, a woman who had been spit on at football games by, well I guess they would be teabaggers now. Of course, she identified with the Palestinians. Some things can't be looked at through an American lense.
It wasn't until I started reading LGF, and took it upon myself to look a little deeper onto the matter, that my opinion changed.
Most don't do that.

re: #79 Obdicut

And please, lest anyone mistake, I'm not saying that any nation is illegitimate because it came from conquering and etc. My position is that a government is legitimate if it provides democratic representation to its population as a pretty coherent whole. I mean, stuff like kids and a certain degree of felons being prevented from voting, sure. But otherwise, a government gains legitimacy through the people it governs, and that is all.

And in that regard, Israel is very much a democracy. It's got a weird religious kink to some of the civil laws that's unfortunate, but it does govern with the consent of the governed.

re: #92 engineer dog

one of our problems as jews is that we are traditionally imagined to be at the heart of both international finance as well as the international communist conspiracy

apparently our evil plan is to glom all the money in the world for ourselves and then have a revolution and force ourselves to redistribute it all evenly

This is what I've found in my research of Russia. You guys are blamed by the Czar and his allies for capitalistic exploitation and socialism.

re: #92 engineer dog

one of our problems as jews is that we are traditionally imagined to be at the heart of both international finance as well as the international communist conspiracy

apparently our evil plan is to glom all the money in the world for ourselves and then have a revolution and force ourselves to redistribute it all evenly

Yeah. I've recently finished reading The Russian Roots of Nazism, and the White emigre antisemitic publicists (who made quite an impression on Hitler) were pushing exactly this thesis in 1920s - that both "decadent" Western capitalism and "Bolshevism" were but Jewish puppets.

Oh, and I didn't forget about the good 'ol fashioned anti-semitism.
Just offering a different perspective.
:)

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Yeah. I've recently finished reading The Russian Roots of Nazism, and the White emigre antisemitic publicists (who made quite an impression on Hitler) were pushing exactly this thesis in 1920s - that both "decadent" Western capitalism and "Bolshevism" were but Jewish puppets.

Article I found talks about a Russian Duma deputy later working in the Nazi propaganda department. I am not writing on the white movement though since my paper's self set end is 1914 (start of WWI). I did open up the paper with the assassination of Alexander II and how Jews were unfairly scapegoated for that throughout the empire. Have a meeting with the professor on Tuesday afternoon. I hope to have this draft either completed or near it by then.

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

The Greek debt crisis has caused Italy's ability to pay its sovereign debt into question. Banks and other debt holders are worried about default, and the fears are becoming something of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

and Spain just got downgraded as well. I seem to remember there was a big "Occupy madrid" protest a few monts back as well, mostly to protest budget cuts and the absolute lack of jobs for young people in Spain, where youth unemployment is well over 20%

re: #98 HappyWarrior

Markov II?

Seriously, has anyone ever looked into the structure of Berlusconi's holdings?

From wiki:

The Berlusconi family doesn't control the company directly. Instead, its shares are owned by 38 separate companies, all named 'Holding Italiana' followed by a number (1-38), most of which are in turn controlled by Berlusconi. These 'Holding Italiane' have repeatedly come under investigation by the police for various financial and accounting irregularities, slush funds and money-laundering. All of them were created at the end of the 1970s by covert associates of Berlusconi's and received significant investments (several hundreds of millions of euros at today's value) from still unknown sources. Some of their liquidity was even deposited in cash. Much of the documentation of that time relative to the early financial and banking operations of these companies has been lost, in one case in a fire.

Can you imagine the riots in Washington if anything like that was ever tied directly to an American president?

re: #87 HappyWarrior

The Anti-Germans stuff was interesting to read. Especially the parts about them basically celebrating Dresden.

Yeah, that's just sick.

But then again, Dresden has been a focal point for German wingnut propaganda.

It's basically an attempt of fighting fire with fire.

Not nice to behold.

re: #102 000G

True, that. Also, I always marvel at how neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust but ridiculously exaggerate the Dresden death toll.

re: #100 Sergey Romanov

Markov II?

Yep.

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

That's just creepy. Whatever one might think about the legitimacy of the bombing, celebrating the death of 25,000 men, women and children is just sick.

Not trying to justify or excuse that sickness, but one also has to keep in mind that for the longest time in post-war Germany, that death toll number was usually taken to be ca. ten times as high although quite obviously based mostly on propaganda.

I need to step away, BBL.

Here's a good piece:

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Moody’s Analytics estimated that Obama’s American Jobs Act would create 1.9 million jobs, grow the economy by 2 percent and cut unemployment by a percentage point. Their review of the Republicans’ plan is not nearly as favorable. In fact, the Washington Post’s Greg Sargent reports that one Moody’s economist thinks it may damage the economy even more:

re: #102 000G

Yeah, that's just sick.

But then again, Dresden has been a focal point for German wingnut propaganda.

It's basically an attempt of fighting fire with fire.

Not nice to behold.

Yeah it amazes me too. As Sergey notes above though, it has also amazed me too how Neo-Nazis will deny or minimize the Holocaust but act like Dresden's death toll was amazingly high. I believe this is how David Irving got his start but I may be wrong.

re: #105 000G

On the denier sites the figure goes up to 500,000 and 1 million.

re: #99 ralphieboy

and Spain just got downgraded as well. I seem to remember there was a big "Occupy madrid" protest a few monts back as well, mostly to protest budget cuts and the absolute lack of jobs for young people in Spain, where youth unemployment is well over 20%

This is all just a warm up for the upcoming G20 meeting. It's going to be a doozy.

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Yeah it amazes me too. As Sergey notes above though, it has also amazed me too how Neo-Nazis will deny or minimize the Holocaust but act like Dresden's death toll was amazingly high. I believe this is how David Irving got his start but I may be wrong.

Yes, he did. And Vonnegut relied on him. The Dresden toll was a big part of the 2000 trial.

re: #103 Sergey Romanov

True, that. Also, I always marvel at how neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust but ridiculously exaggerate the Dresden death toll.

Not just neo-Nazis. When Dresden was in East Germany, the politicians there used it to rail against the Western Allies, and those politicians were ostensibly leftists.

re: #109 Sergey Romanov

I wonder to what extent Dresden became significant in the English-speaking world as a result of Slaughterhouse Five. I certainly think that's why more people of the younger generations know it.

re: #110 Killgore Trout

This is all just a warm up for the upcoming G20 meeting. It's going to be a doozy.

24th should have some good deals after the European Council meeting. Thats what I keep telling myself anyways.

re: #112 000G

Wasn't the DDR figure 35,000? I forgot.

re: #52 Obdicut

They have increased exposure to derivatives during many quarters since the meltdown.

[Link: www.occ.gov...]

From that useful link--thank you--dated September 2010:

The OCC reported that net current credit exposure (NCCE), the primary metric the OCC uses to measure credit risk in derivatives activities, increased $38 billion, or 11 percent, to $397 billion this quarter. NCCE peaked at $800 billion at the end of 2008, at the height of the credit crisis, and had declined for five consecutive quarters until the increase this quarter.

If you're asking for the name of a particular new security, I can't tell you, that. I'll happily modify my statement to "They have not reduced their exposure to credit default swaps by nearly enough in the wake of the meltdown."

In view of the September 2011 press release, that modification moves in a direction I agree with (boldface mime):

The OCC reported that net current credit exposure (NCCE), the primary metric the OCC uses to measure credit risk in derivatives activities, increased $11 billion, or three percent, to $364 billion this quarter compared to the first quarter of 2011. NCCE is less than half the peak of $800 billion at the end of 2008, at the height of the credit crisis. "The rise in the second quarter broke a trend of steadily declining credit exposure numbers," said Mr. Pfinsgraff, who noted that NCCE had fallen in seven of the past nine quarters prior to the second quarter’s increase. "Based upon the very sharp decline in interest rates since the end of the second quarter, we anticipate a material rise in credit exposures during the third quarter." Mr. Pfinsgraff noted that aggregate derivative credit exposures are very sensitive to interest rates, since rate contracts are 82 percent of total notionals. He also noted that 73 percent of the NCCE was collateralized, up from 72 percent in the prior quarter. OCC expects to see continued increases in collateralization of derivative risks as more over-the-counter transactions migrate to exchanges in conformance to recent changes in regulation.

This doesn't sound like a proliferation of "even more complex financial instruments".

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Yeah. I've recently finished reading The Russian Roots of Nazism, and the White emigre antisemitic publicists (who made quite an impression on Hitler) were pushing exactly this thesis in 1920s - that both "decadent" Western capitalism and "Bolshevism" were but Jewish puppets.

Was popular meme in the völkisch movement in Germany, too (which itself had a big influx of White emigrees – it's really interesting to go back and read original sources from way back when, völkisch authors discussing Zionism and how horrific a state of Israel would be, btw).

These days, it's opular in the New World Order conspiracy theory circles.

re: #116 jvic

Sure. But it rose again. They're still overexposed. It should be declining, declining, declining, not rising. That it rose again shows that they increased exposure.

Unless you think that they're not still overexposed?

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Great use of satire, IMO. People are very frustrated with the financial industry these days. But I'd ask them to look at the situation more closely before getting mad. With Europe in a very bad spot, is now the time to really move if you're a bank? Or would the better move be to sit on our cash and wait for more stable times.

Hahaha you do realize there are lots of people who don't have any "cash", that conservatives want them squeezed even harder, and that's one of the major issues of the protests, right?

Rick Perry officials spark revolt after doctoring environment report

By academic standards, the protest amounts to the beginnings of a rebellion: every single scientist associated with the 200-page report has demanded their names be struck from the document.

Houston Chronicle:

TCEQ also deleted any references to human-caused change in other contexts, including a reference to human activity being responsible for wetlands destruction.

re: #117 000G

Forgot to add - they were pushing this thesis exactly in proto-Nazi voelkisch publications, incl. Eckart's rag, Voelkischer Beobachter and so on.

re: #115 Sergey Romanov

Wasn't the DDR figure 35,000? I forgot.

I dunno about official DDR figures. I know 35,000 was the figure Eberhard Matthes gave.

re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hahaha you do realize there are lost of people who don't have any "cash", that conservatives want them squeezed even harder, and that's one of the major issues of the protests, right?

There's blood in them there turnips, I'm just sure of it.

If I remember my trip to Central Europe a few years back, Dresden has a really nice art gallery. They understandably didn't allow me to use my camera. It was a neat city but as I recall it a lot of the housing architecture was still in the Eastern bloc style. My favorite German city though from the brief samples of Germany I got has to have been Munich. I thought it was the most beautiful and I enjoyed the beer and fookd the most too. People were friendly too.

re: #124 HappyWarrior

and fookd the most too

tmi

:-)

re: #125 engineer dog

tmi

:-)

Haha I'm actually wearing my Hofbrauhaus shirt now weirdly enough. I think my favorite part of traveling though is looking for bars where locals hang and stuff. You meet interesting people that way. I really hope I can travel again after I get my degree. Already have a small trip to the southwest in mind to see an old friend planned but damnit I want to go back to Europe.

re: #124 HappyWarrior

If I remember my trip to Central Europe a few years back, Dresden has a really nice art gallery. They understandably didn't allow me to use my camera. It was a neat city but as I recall it a lot of the housing architecture was still in the Eastern bloc style. My favorite German city though from the brief samples of Germany I got has to have been Munich. I thought it was the most beautiful and I enjoyed the beer and fookd the most too. People were friendly too.

When I was in Dresden a few years ago, it showed some signs of, I dunno, shabbiness which one doesn't usually find in Western Germany (at least from my experience). But yeah, a very nice city.

re: #120 jaunte

Rick Perry officials spark revolt after doctoring environment report

Houston Chronicle:

This indicates what we can look forward to if the GOP takes over in 2012: many of our scientists will find themselves forced to give up in order to maintain their scientific intergrity, with disastrous effects on our nation's future.

re: #122 000G

Ah yes, it was.

[Link: www.dresden.de...]

re: #83 ralphieboy

I support the right of Israel to exist, but I do not support all of the current israeli government's policies, especially concerning new settlements. Does that make me an anti-Zionist or just an anti-Semite?

Hm, can't say from the information given. It's one of those things where all anti-Zionists typically say they hate current .il policies (well, what they know about it), but the current Israeli government's policies are not the whole of "Zionism".

So it would be hard to say you're "an anti-Zionist" based solely on that statement.

I'd also say, if you hate those policies because you perceive it as Jews implementing them then yah, that's antisemitic.

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

When I was in Dresden a few years ago, it showed some signs of, I dunno, shabbiness which one doesn't usually find in Western Germany (at least from my experience). But yeah, a very nice city.

I found it ironic that one of Dresden's oldest traditional cafes was located in an ugly post-war building (the old one was destroyed) while the Mac Donald's franchise had moved into one of the few intact buildings in the downtown, a lovely structure.

re: #118 Obdicut

Sure. But it rose again. They're still overexposed. It should be declining, declining, declining, not rising. That it rose again shows that they increased exposure.

Unless you think that they're not still overexposed?

I know just enough about derivative valuation and pricing to refuse to make sweeping statements.

Moving derivatives onto exchanges seems a good thing, as does collateralizing them. Although derivatives have legitimate uses, I am inclined to believe that there are too many floating around but unwinding the positions all at once would probably be traumatic for the financial system.

Btw: a shout-out to Brooksley Born, who foresaw the danger and tried to avert it. The Establishment squashed her efforts and has made amends to a limited degree, but not nearly enough.

Kossacks say this one is also fake:

Image: 53percent_guy.jpg

Look at the bottom left corner of the paper, the shadow...

re: #132 jvic

Sure. The details really don't matter. The point is that the regulatory environment has gotten nowhere near strict enough, nor has the ethics and culture of Wall Street changed to the degree that we could reasonably expect the banks not to lead us into another meltdown. The basics of stock ownership still hold, investors will still chase short-term profits, there's no real attempt at shareholder governance. The same conditions apply; the same thing will occur.

And you're quite right to cite Brooksley Born. She really nailed it. And she also said what I'm saying. This was in 2009, after the meltdown:

"I think we will have continuing danger from these markets and that we will have repeats of the financial crisis -- may differ in details but there will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap, over and over, until we learn from experience."

re: #133 Sergey Romanov

Kossacks say this one is also fake:

Image: 53percent_guy.jpg

Look at the bottom left corner of the paper, the shadow...

I don't see any thing that suggests it is. I do find the 53% movement kind of lame since though since much more than 53% of the population pays taxes and Wall Street should bear some blame for the economic problems and should be better regulated. It has amazed me and I am not saying this man feels this way, but it has amazed me people like Breitbart and the Tea Party who like to blame the government for economic problems are acting like Wall Street has been scapegoated here. They're both to blame.

re: #133 Sergey Romanov

Kossacks say this one is also fake:

Image: 53percent_guy.jpg

Look at the bottom left corner of the paper, the shadow...

"I am a former marine

I work 2 jobs

I don't have health insurance

I haven't had 4 consecutive days off in 4 years.

But I don't blame Wall St."

um, i have a sneaking suspicion that this guy does not "blame himself", as a certain candidate would have it, but probably has a serious addiction to finding reasons for whining about how "liberals" have caused all our problems

re: #135 HappyWarrior

The shadow around the page does look unnatural, though I don't jump to conclusions just yet. Did you see another of their pics exposed as a fake? 000G had an URL.

re: #135 HappyWarrior

The paper looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from having seen quite a few shops in my time.

Should anyone care, some audio became available:
Rush Limbaugh - Obama Is Sending Troops To Uganda To Kill Christians

Of course, the wingnut birther who posted the stuff fell for it hook line and sinker & calls the LRA the Ugandan Tea Party

re: #138 Obdicut

The paper looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from having seen quite a few shops in my time.

The bottom line of the paper, for example. There's a distinct dark "shadow" underneath, which seems to go through air! I dunno, maybe it's some strange JPEG comression artifact, but...

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

Lifted that URL from darthstar's postings.

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

The shadow around the page does look unnatural, though I don't jump to conclusions just yet. Did you see another of their pics exposed as a fake? 000G had an URL.

I missed that. But I don't want to jump to conclusions either.

What do you all think? Should I add t-shirts or just let the heads be bodiless?

re: #143 darthstar

Bodiless.

Watching Texas and Oklahoma State playing two hand touch, but the referees expect them to tackle each other.

re: #139 000G

Should anyone care, some audio became available:
Rush Limbaugh - Obama Is Sending Troops To Uganda To Kill Christians

[Video]

This is why Limbaugh sucks.

re: #138 Obdicut

The paper looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from having seen quite a few shops in my time.

I don't know. But I am not good at being able to tell forgeries. My opinion still stands on the 53% counter-movement though. I think they're lame to imply that only 53% of the populace pays taxes. It's right wing bullshit and I say that as someone who is ambivalent towards the movement they're opposing.

re: #144 Obdicut

Bodiless.

Thanks.

OK, this one is good.

Image: fiftythreepic.jpg

re: #139 000G

Should anyone care, some audio became available:
Rush Limbaugh - Obama Is Sending Troops To Uganda To Kill Christians

[Video]

Thjis is the part that gets me. One might disagree with Obama's policies and reasons for sending troops there but "He's doing it to kill Christians" is pathetically overblown.

re: #143 darthstar

What do you all think? Should I add t-shirts or just let the heads be bodiless?

Skeletons.

re: #147 HappyWarrior

What I said is an internet meme. But it does look photoshopped. The paper and ink do look fake. But I doubt doubt that guys like that exist out there, so I don't even get the point of faking stuff like this. There are real people expressing opinions like that.

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

OK, this one is good.

Image: fiftythreepic.jpg

Full of win, that one...

re: #152 Obdicut

What I said is an internet meme. But it does look photoshopped. The paper and ink do look fake. But I doubt doubt that guys like that exist out there, so I don't even get the point of faking stuff like this. There are real people expressing opinions like that.

Gotcha. Thanks.

Someone mentioned earlier about Canada and the banking regulation...

Yes, keeping the banks regulated was one of the smartest things this country has done in the last 20 years. And its turned into something largely bipartisan as well. But the other huge factor is resource extraction in general, and the Alberta Tar Sands in particular. I can think of at least 20 guys that wouldn't be employed directly without this, maybe another 20 employed indirectly. That's about 40 mortgages that would have probably gone under, etc. It really seems to be keeping Canada afloat in many ways. And its almost entirely paid for by American corporations. Something to keep in mind.

re: #149 Sergey Romanov

OK, this one is good.

Image: fiftythreepic.jpg

I thought that one was funny when I read it. I think some of the pics might be fakes, but there are plenty that look like they were sincere. That said, I think the theory someone posited that they're pulling pics from the Bush election "We're sorry, world" photo campaign could have merit...the Hispanic woman who is a former drug addict who worked for minimum wage for six years to get promoted to manager and had her picture taken in 2003 (during the 'we're sorry' campaign) makes that seem possible.

re: #139 000G

lol, that wingnut birther is also crying out for Sarah Palin to run for President after all because Obama is killing Christians in Uganda:

I am not kidding.

I am the 52%

(i pay income taxes but i sure ain't part of the 1%)

I am happy to earn enough to be in a high tax bracket but I don't whine about how my money is used to help people

I am happy to earn enough money so that I can afford to live in a highly desireable part of the country which therefore charges a high state and local tax rate but I don't whine about how my tax money is used to keep up the infrastructure and supplement the nutrition and education of the children of people who work just as hard if not harder than me but for minimum wage or close to it

I am happy to earn so much that it turns out I pay as much in taxes as many people earn in a year but I don't get my knickers in a twist about "freeloaders" or "lucky duckies" because I still have enough left over to be a chardonnay guzzling french pâté licking overeducated snob, yet remember what it was like to pay my rent from washing dishes and being a breakfast cook and am glad to lend a helping hand

I REALIZE HOW LUCKY I AM AND I DON'T WHINE ABOUT HAVING A LITTLE MORE LEFT OVER THAN MOST TO PITCH IN FOR THE UPKEEP AND I DON'T PISS ON PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING THEIR BUTTS OFF AND BARELY KEEPING THEIR HEADS ABOVE WATER BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY INCOME TAX

re: #153 talon_262

Full of win, that one...

Probably fake though.

//

re: #156 darthstar

Wait, the source for her has been found? Linky?

re: #151 wrenchwench

Skeletons.

There's only two weeks until Halloween...that's not enough time to kill two people, dry their bones, and then stack them up under the pumpkin heads...besides, I don't believe in killing and would probably be so full of guilt I wouldn't enjoy my display.

This is one thing I like about LGF: so many people here are refreshingly, positively, wonderfully ignorant of some internet memes. And nobody here likes mudkips.

I wonder if that person knows that Uganda's population is overwhelmingly Christian and the LRA is a rebel group. Nah, they heard Lord's Resistance Army and thought oh my god Obama hates Christians. Uganda is 12% Muslim so that kind of throws the Obama is only intervening for the Muslims nonsense out but even if it were true, so what? Its okay to slaughter Muslims in the name of Christianity?

re: #162 Obdicut

This is one thing I like about LGF: so many people here are refreshingly, positively, wonderfully ignorant of some internet memes. And nobody here likes mudkips.

Wassa mudkip?

re: #160 Sergey Romanov

Wait, the source for her has been found? Linky?

Not that I'm aware of...but she definitely doesn't have that retarded Erickson look to her, so I suspect she was a googled pic.

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

The shadow around the page does look unnatural, though I don't jump to conclusions just yet. Did you see another of their pics exposed as a fake? 000G had an URL.

It has layers.

re: #166 Decatur Deb

It has layers.

We'll have to look at the thermal mapping.

re: #164 Sergey Romanov

Wassa mudkip?

had to look it up myself.

re: #164 Sergey Romanov

Oh, are you serious?

[Link: knowyourmeme.com...]

re: #169 Obdicut

Oh, are you serious?

[Link: knowyourmeme.com...]

Well, I just confirmed your comment. Rejoice! ;)

Funny thing is how some of the 53%-ers are proud of the fact that they have to work long hours without health insurance just for the "right" to be able to tell those hippies to suck it up.

Whatever happened to the notion of hard work actually paying enough to allow us to work a 40-hour week, or is that something reserved for the elite?

I once ran across a statistic (some years ago) that only 38% of the American workforce has a "normal" job: namely day shift, weekdays without regular overtime.

Granted, not everybody can have the "luxury" of working 9 to 5 mon-fri, but it says a lot that nearly 2/3 of America's employees are regularly working evenings and weekends.

re: #171 ralphieboy

Funny thing is how some of the 53%-ers are proud of the fact that they have to work long hours without health insurance just for the "right" to be able to tell those hippies to suck it up.

Whatever happened to the notion of hard work actually paying enough to allow us to work a 40-hour week, or is that something reserved for the elite?

I once ran across a statistic (some years ago) that only 38% of the American workforce has a "normal" job: namely day whift, weekdays without regualr overtime.

Granted, not everybody can have the "luxury" of working 9 to 5 mon-fri, but it says a lot that nearly 2/3 of America's employees are regularly working evenings and weekends.

Brought to you by the "Family Friendly" economy.

I looked up "The cake is a lie" today.

Testing...

I had to. My brother made a geeky joke about "the lye is a cake".

re: #172 Decatur Deb

Brought to you by the "Family Friendly" economy.

and I have no figures to back it up, but I suspect that a good share of the 38% who work weekdays without regualr overtime are teachers or government and administrative workers...

re: #175 wrenchwench

I had to. My brother made a geeky joke about "the lye is a cake".

Lutefisk cake? I pass, thank you.

We Are the 1 Percent

re: #175 wrenchwench

I had to. My brother made a geeky joke about "the lye is a cake".

Now I had to look it up--thought it was invented here, by FBV.

re: #176 ralphieboy

and I have no figures to back it up, but I suspect that a good share of the 38% who work weekdays without regualr overtime are teachers or government and administrative workers...

No way to back it up? You, too, can be a Republican debater.

Gotta love it.

We are the 1% We Occupy your Government.

So true. And the 53 percenters are morons.

re: #180 Decatur Deb

No way to back it up? You, too, can be a Republican debater.

I support ze German tax plan: "nein, nein, nein!"

re: #179 Decatur Deb

Now I had to look it up--thought it was invented here, by FBV.

Our ages are showing.

re: #183 wrenchwench

Our ages are showing.

Or our lack of being gamers, which has a lot of overlap with the age thing.

A stinking hippie dog is occupying the kitchen, demanding a walk and a chance to lift a leg on a banker. BBL

re: #185 Decatur Deb

A stinking hippie dog is occupying the kitchen, demanding a walk and a chance to lift a leg on a banker. BBL

probably never worked a day in his life and lives off food handouts...

re: #185 Decatur Deb

A stinking hippie dog is occupying the kitchen, demanding a walk and a chance to lift a leg on a banker. BBL

Don't insist on a banker if you see a politician first.

In addition to their hubris about managing risk, the bankers thought they were facilitating what the politicians (Left and Right) wanted done. They did not expect to be singled out as scapegoats.

They should have checked with the tobacco industry.

re: #187 jvic

Don't insist on a banker if you see a politician first.

In addition to their hubris about managing risk, the bankers thought they were facilitating what the politicians (Left and Right) wanted done. They did not expect to be singled out as scapegoats.

They should have checked with the tobacco industry.

Maybe it's one of those chicken/egg things, but why would bankers want to facilitate what the politicians want done? Don't they give money to politicians to get what bankers want done?

re: #187 jvic

They should have checked with the tobacco industry.

Ba-wah?

re: #171 ralphieboy

Funny thing is how some of the 53%-ers are proud of the fact that they have to work long hours without health insurance just for the "right" to be able to tell those hippies to suck it up.

Whatever happened to the notion of hard work actually paying enough to allow us to work a 40-hour week, or is that something reserved for the elite?

I once ran across a statistic (some years ago) that only 38% of the American workforce has a "normal" job: namely day shift, weekdays without regular overtime.

Granted, not everybody can have the "luxury" of working 9 to 5 mon-fri, but it says a lot that nearly 2/3 of America's employees are regularly working evenings and weekends.

the general message of the "I am the 53%", as nearly as I can make out, is that they are overworked, underpaid, and have no insurance, but for some reason they are so annoyed that some people are daring to criticize wall st that they have devoted a whole website to whining about it

re: #178 Gus 802

We Are the 1 Percent

We Are The Whining Percent

re: #190 engineer dog

the general message of the "I am the 53%", as nearly as I can make out, is that they are overworked, underpaid, and have no insurance, but for some reason they are so annoyed that some people are daring to criticize wall st that they have devoted a whole website to whining about it

That's how I read it too and why I called them lame. I mean shit I don't agree with the OWS movement on everything but the outright disdain for these protesters is stupid. It's kinda like Nixon's Silent Majority in a way.

Evening Lizardim. What's cookin'?

re: #193 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim. What's cookin'?

Mudkip cake.

re: #194 Sergey Romanov

Mudkip cake.

It's a lie!

re: #194 Sergey Romanov

Mudkip cake.

pi*r^2? NO! Pi are round. Cake are square.

re: #195 wrenchwench

It's a lie!

Okay, it's just mud.

re: #196 thedopefishlives

Pi? Pi is tasty too.

re: #196 thedopefishlives

Want some dope fish pie?

re: #187 jvic

Don't insist on a banker if you see a politician first.

In addition to their hubris about managing risk, the bankers thought they were facilitating what the politicians (Left and Right) wanted done. They did not expect to be singled out as scapegoats.

They should have checked with the tobacco industry.

It's an interesting comparison, since the bankers created products designed to harm the buyer and marketed them deceptively. They solicited inaccurate ratings and accepted them, advertised their own small buy in as a loss leader while hiding their much stronger hedge position on failure.

I don't think they were really doing "what the politicians (Left and Right) wanted done" though, even if they thought they were. For one thing, only one side was pushing deregulation, and continues to push it today.

re: #199 Sergey Romanov

Want some dope fish pie?

Depends on which of my relatives is getting put into it./

re: #189 Obdicut

Ba-wah?

The term is new to me.

Interesting -- apparently right wingers are circulating a photo to smear the Occupy Wall Street protesters that was posted in 2007 at LGF, claiming that it was taken recently at the OWS protests:

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

It's a photo of some anarchists in Oregon with a sign that says "Fuck The Troops:"

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Image: 20070318Portland03.jpg

re: #203 Charles

Interesting -- apparently right wingers are circulating a photo that was posted in 2007 at LGF to smear the Occupy Wall Street protesters, claiming that it was taken recently at the OWS protests:

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

It's a photo of some anarchists in Oregon with a sign that says "Fuck The Troops:"

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Image: 20070318Portland03.jpg

$20 says they'll use the fact that it was posted here to turn around and smear LGF.

re: #133 Sergey Romanov

Kossacks say this one is also fake:

Image: 53percent_guy.jpg

Look at the bottom left corner of the paper, the shadow...

That doesn't look like a shadow so much as light from behind the paper being blocked by the guy's hand.

And why would they 'fake' a photo like that? I don't get it.

The 'I am the 53' is stupid enough. Trying to claim a faked photo is even more stupid. That's why I sopped reading Kos years ago.

Now if you want to talk about a really nasty leftist demonstration, that one in 2007 was the real deal. They also burned a US soldier in effigy.

re: #203 Charles

How long before someone drops in and posts it as fact?

re: #203 Charles

Interesting -- apparently right wingers are circulating a photo that was posted in 2007 at LGF to smear the Occupy Wall Street protesters, claiming that it was taken recently at the OWS protests:

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

It's a photo of some anarchists in Oregon with a sign that says "Fuck The Troops:"

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Image: 20070318Portland03.jpg

They got no shame. Hell I remember the 2007 one and being disgusted when I saw it since I had and have friends that were in Afghanistan and Iraq. I've always been careful to note my opposition to Iraq had nothing to do with the guys serving there. The policy was the objection.

re: #205 makeitstop

Sorry, don't get your explanation. How does the guy's hand result in a black line along the bottom of the paper, including in thin air?

re: #207 Sergey Romanov

How long before someone drops in and posts it as fact?

Well, it's gotta make the rounds through all the right-wing nutjob blogs, so... Give it five minutes, maybe?

re: #200 goddamnedfrank

It's an interesting comparison, since the bankers created products designed to harm the buyer and marketed them deceptively. They solicited inaccurate ratings and accepted them, advertised their own small buy in as a loss leader while hiding their much stronger hedge position on failure.

1. It's a step too far to say the products were designed to harm the buyer. IMO the bankers were indifferent to the products' consequences for the buyers. Amorality, not malice.

2. If the hedge positions were all that strong, the banks wouldn't be fragile today. Profitability may have returned, but the condition remains fragile.

I don't think they were really doing "what the politicians (Left and Right) wanted done" though, even if they thought they were. For one thing, only one side was pushing deregulation, and continues to push it today.

The other side was pushing expanded home ownership and, arguably, continues to push it today.
*** *** *** *** ***
As Obama acknowledged early in his Presidency, "there's plenty of blame to go around."

I'm less interested in laying blame than I am in determining responsibility. Reasonable people can disagree about how best to fix the mess, but an inaccurate assessment of responsibility increases the chances that the crisis will return.

re: #209 Sergey Romanov

Sorry, don't get your explanation. How does the guy's hand result in a black line along the bottom of the paper, including in thin air?

Maybe I wasn't looking at the right thing. Going back to look again.

Yep, looking at the wrong thing. Now I see what you're talking about.

Odd. It looks like someone applied the Drop Shadow filter to the paper.

I still think faking photos for that site is dumb. Why not just gin up some fake 'I am the 53' letters and take real pics of real people holding them?

re: #133 Sergey Romanov

Kossacks say this one is also fake:

Image: 53percent_guy.jpg

Look at the bottom left corner of the paper, the shadow...

That's the result of an imaging artifact known as edge enhancement, or accutance. Basically there's no way to focus an unfocused image, but you can make it sharper by manipulating situational contrast. These functions are built into some, especially consumer grade digital cameras and underpin the unsharp mask and smart sharpening filters in Photoshop.

re: #213 goddamnedfrank

Thanks. No idea if it explains it, but as I said, I keep an open mind because it could be an artifact.

re: #212 makeitstop

The question of "why" is interesting but irrelevant to "is" - one of those photos has already been exposed as a composite fake.

re: #211 jvic

1. It's a step too far to say the products were designed to harm the buyer. IMO the bankers were indifferent to the products' consequences for the buyers. Amorality, not malice.

'Indifference' does not equal 'amorality'. In fact, it more closely resembles malice.

re: #188 wrenchwench

Maybe it's one of those chicken/egg things, but why would bankers want to facilitate what the politicians want done? Don't they give money to politicians to get what bankers want done?

One hand washes the other, IMHO. When they're not biting each other. ;-)

I'm not talking about some grand conspiracy. I'm talking about accommodations based on perceptions of mutual interest. "Congressman, your proposed legislation would make it harder for us to maintain our level of support for affordable housing. Thank you for the opportunity to express our perspective. We hope to meet with you again after the election."

re: #215 Sergey Romanov

The question of "why" is interesting but irrelevant to "is" - one of those photos has already been exposed as a composite fake.

I've been of the computer for much of the day and hadn't heard about that.

The practice itself just really strikes me as odd. If there are so many of 'the 53%,' why wouldn't they be proud to show themselves?

Maybe that's the problem. There really don't appear to be many people besides Erick Son Of Erick (and a few real blockheads) actually buying into the idea.

re: #216 wrenchwench

'Indifference' does not equal 'amorality'. In fact, it more closely resembles malice.

An example of indifference is I don't care if you live or die. An example of malice is I hope you die.

An indifferent bystander would watch me drown. A malicious one would push my head under.

re: #219 jvic

An example of indifference is I don't care if you live or die. An example of malice is I hope you die.

An indifferent bystander would watch me drown. A malicious one would push my head under.

Are you familiar with the term "depraved indifference"?

I think you've given at least one example, maybe two.

re: #187 jvic

Don't insist on a banker if you see a politician first.

In addition to their hubris about managing risk, the bankers thought they were facilitating what the politicians (Left and Right) wanted done. They did not expect to be singled out as scapegoats.

They should have checked with the tobacco industry.

Really? You actually believe that 'bankers', or more accurately the financial industry in general, took ridiculous risks with invested money and financial products because that's what politicians wanted? Not because it could make them a lot of money, or because they thought they'd never have to pay the piper, but because government told them to do it? Do you actually believe that?

re: #211 jvic

1. It's a step too far to say the products were designed to harm the buyer. IMO the bankers were indifferent to the products' consequences for the buyers. Amorality, not malice.

2. If the hedge positions were all that strong, the banks wouldn't be fragile today. Profitability may have returned, but the condition remains fragile.

The other side was pushing expanded home ownership and, arguably, continues to push it today.
*** *** *** *** ***
As Obama acknowledged early in his Presidency, "there's plenty of blame to go around."

I'm less interested in laying blame than I am in determining responsibility. Reasonable people can disagree about how best to fix the mess, but an inaccurate assessment of responsibility increases the chances that the crisis will return.

Both sides were pushing expanded home ownership. W ran on the ownership society in 2004.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

re: #211 jvic

It's a step too far to say the products were designed to harm the buyer. IMO the bankers were indifferent to the products' consequences for the buyers. Amorality, not malice.

No, they were designed to fail. You can tell by the deceptive names. Accurately named titles like Insufficiently Collateralized Debt Obligations or Backed-by-nothing "Securities" just wouldn't have sold. It was fraud, jvic.

1. re: #220 wrenchwench

Are you familiar with the term "depraved indifference"?

I think you've given at least one example, maybe two.

I gather that it's a legal term characterizing culpable recklessness, generally associated with manslaughter-level culpability.

The public wanted houses. The politicians wanted affordable housing. Greenspan kept interest rates low. The bankers saw a way to make big bucks. The rating agencies approved it.

So where's the crime here? Each of these actors can plausibly point the finger at the others. That's why I try to analyze the crisis as a systemic failure.

2.re: #221 Renaissance_Man

Really? You actually believe that 'bankers', or more accurately the financial industry in general, took ridiculous risks with invested money and financial products because that's what politicians wanted? Not because it could make them a lot of money, or because they thought they'd never have to pay the piper, but because government told them to do it? Do you actually believe that?

I thought I addressed this in my #211. Also in my #217: I'm not talking about some grand conspiracy. I'm talking about accommodations based on perceptions of mutual interest.

3.re: #222 blueraven

Both sides were pushing expanded home ownership. W ran on the ownership society in 2004.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Point taken and upding given. I still maintain that the Democrats pushed the affordable housing thing earlier and harder than the GOP, but I decline to defend that proposition in this thread. Maybe another time.

Besides, no true Scotsman, er, conservative would govern the way Bush did. ;-)

4. re: #223 000G

No, they were designed to fail. You can tell by the deceptive names. Accurately named titles like Insufficiently Collateralized Debt Obligations or Backed-by-nothing "Securities" just wouldn't have sold. It was fraud, jvic.

I agree that it was moral fraud, 000G, but I continue to maintain that the (moral) fraud is not confined to the bankers.

Legal fraud is a different matter. You'd have to prove that the decisionmakers deliberately misled the rating agencies, or that the bank decisionmakers deliberately insulated themselves from learning the information internally.

(Heh. Market prices are a marvellous way to disseminate information. Unfortunately, our economy may be evolving ingenious mechanisms for committing and hiding fraud. Ouch.)

5. Mine is a distinctly minority position in this thread, but I thank the people who treated me civilly, and especially those who helped me sharpen and add to my understanding.

Later.

re: #224 jvic

I agree that it was moral fraud, 000G, but I continue to maintain that the (moral) fraud is not confined to the bankers.

I agree that anyone in the involved trade aware of what the fraudulent vehicles actually were is probably guilty of fraud.

Legal fraud is a different matter. You'd have to prove that the decisionmakers deliberately misled the rating agencies, or that the bank decisionmakers deliberately insulated themselves from learning the information internally.

I think the blame of the rating agencies was of quite a different nature. I don't know whom you mean by "decisionmaker".

(Heh. Market prices are a marvellous way to disseminate information. Unfortunately, our economy may be evolving ingenious mechanisms for committing and hiding fraud. Ouch.)

Apropos:
[Link: www.nobelprize.org...]
[Link: www.nobelprize.org...]

re: #72 ralphieboy

It's one of those loud dogwhistle terms "Anti Zionist" very often means "Anti-Semite, but not about to admit it right upfront". Just like saying "Evolution is just one of many valid theories" means "I beilieve that God made the world in six days 6,000 years ago but I am not going to admit that up front".

Given how it is used, and who it's used by, it is genuinely hard for me to take people seriously when they say they are 'anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semitic'.

re: #83 ralphieboy

I support the right of Israel to exist, but I do not support all of the current israeli government's policies, especially concerning new settlements. Does that make me an anti-Zionist or just an anti-Semite?

Nah.