1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:45:04pm

oy

2 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:45:59pm

Holy crap!! That bull has some nads, huh?

3 recusancy  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:46:59pm

Good stuff!

4 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:48:29pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

Holy crap!! That bull has some nads, huh?

That's all that you took away from this serious politico-philosophical videotreatise?

5 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:51:21pm

re: #4 Sergey Romanov

That's all that you took away from this serious politico-philosophical videotreatise?

No. I also thought it was funny when Triumph said the guy that was meditating wouldn't be occupying a vagina anytime soon.
//I am the 99%!!!!

6 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:51:37pm

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog always delivers. Hilarious.

7 Spocomptonite  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:51:47pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

Holy crap!! That bull has some nads, huh?

*obligatory brass balls joke*

8 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:51:51pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

//I am the 99%!!!

Image: 3Ffk5.jpg

9 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:52:24pm

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. I also thought it was funny when Triumph said the guy that was meditating wouldn't be occupying a vagina anytime soon.
//I am the 99%!!!

Maybe he doesn't want any./

10 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:53:03pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

Holy crap!! That bull has some nads, huh?

A few months back a rightwing religious group held a prayer service at the WS bull. I thought they were supposed to stone the makers of bronze idols, but WTH.

11 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:53:18pm

re: #9 Sergey Romanov

Maybe he doesn't want any./

Like a dog chasing a car....

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:53:55pm

re: #10 Decatur Deb

Weren't those the ones touching the bull from all sides?

13 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:54:56pm

re: #12 Sergey Romanov

Weren't those the ones touching the bull from all sides?

Something like that, blessings, laying on of hands. I thought they were going to sacrifice Erin Burnett.

14 laZardo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:55:15pm
15 Kragar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:56:12pm
16 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:56:27pm
17 Spocomptonite  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:00:47pm

re: #16 Cannadian Club Akbar

What to do with bull nads.

The first recipe calls for 40 testicles. That takes a lot of balls.

18 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:02:29pm

re: #14 laZardo

Semi-OT

So I saw the GTAV trailer and...

I still have hope for the GTA franchise. As a PC gamer it will be years before I get to play it. Maybe if the economy recovers enough I can afford to buy a console.

19 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:02:41pm

re: #17 Spocomptonite

The first recipe calls for 40 testicles. That takes a lot of balls.

Find them here!!!
[Link: www.motorcyclemonster.com...]
The Rock Creek Lodge is throwing the annual Bull Testicle Festival where they will feed over 2 1/2 tons of bull balls to more than 15,000 fans!
Proof that people need hobbies.

20 Spocomptonite  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:04:24pm

re: #19 Cannadian Club Akbar

Find them here!!!
[Link: www.motorcyclemonster.com...]
The Rock Creek Lodge is throwing the annual Bull Testicle Festival where they will feed over 2 1/2 tons of bull balls to more than 15,000 fans!
Proof that people need hobbies.

Compensating for something?
///

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:07:01pm

re: #19 Cannadian Club Akbar

Find them here!!!
[Link: www.motorcyclemonster.com...]
The Rock Creek Lodge is throwing the annual Bull Testicle Festival where they will feed over 2 1/2 tons of bull balls to more than 15,000 fans!
Proof that people need hobbies.

Do they grow on trees or sumphin.//

22 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:07:04pm

re: #14 laZardo

Semi-OT

So I saw the GTAV trailer and...

Thanks been wondering if GTAV would be released. Loved Red Dead Redemption. Was more meh on L.A Noir though it was a neat change.

23 William of Orange  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:07:44pm

Always a joy to see Triumph!!

24 Gus  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:07:55pm
25 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:08:04pm

re: #21 Sergey Romanov

Do they grow on trees or sumphin.//

That would make them a fruit.

26 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:08:41pm

re: #25 Cannadian Club Akbar

That would make them a fruit.

Nuts, silly.

27 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:10:10pm

2 comments in and this now a ball thread.

28 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:10:36pm

re: #22 HappyWarrior

Thanks been wondering if GTAV would be released. Loved Red Dead Redemption. Was more meh on L.A Noir though it was a neat change.

Red Dead never came out on PC. I was a little let down by the last GTA. The money was useless in the game (you couldn't buy properties, etc) and I found the cell phone really annoying. In previous GTA games the sidequests were kinda fun but I hated being nagged constantly by NPC's to go bowling.

29 Spocomptonite  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:11:50pm

re: #19 Cannadian Club Akbar

Find them here!!!
[Link: www.motorcyclemonster.com...]
The Rock Creek Lodge is throwing the annual Bull Testicle Festival where they will feed over 2 1/2 tons of bull balls to more than 15,000 fans!
Proof that people need hobbies.

It's an efficient use of resources. Ranchers need steers (or rather, a lack of bull) and why would something go to waste when it can be eaten by 15,000 at a giant party?

I'm waiting for the day Epic Meal Time does rocky mountain oysters.

30 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:12:19pm

re: #24 Gus 802

Why does some moustached guy fist Triumph?/

31 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:14:20pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Red Dead never came out on PC. I was a little let down by the last GTA. The money was useless in the game (you couldn't buy properties, etc) and I found the cell phone really annoying. In previous GTA games the sidequests were kinda fun but I hated being nagged constantly by NPC's to go bowling.

Yeah, I liked GTA IV but I agree with your points The best game in the series for my money is San Andreas. I think they rushed IV. Stinks they didn't release RDR on the PC. I thought it was a fine game. I am looking forward to finally playing Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker this winter because they're finally porting it to the PS3 as part of a MGS HD collection.

32 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:14:36pm

re: #30 Sergey Romanov

Why does some moustached guy fist Triumph?/

Veterinary Proctology student exercising his rights.

33 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:16:08pm

This is good stuff. Always got a kick out of Triumph and Robert Smigel's TV Funhouse always has some of my favorite SNL stuff.

34 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:16:33pm

Watching 'Spy' mode is weird. Tonight's Sign-ons are going over the day's battlefield like medieval peasants at Agincourt.

35 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:18:11pm

re: #32 Decatur Deb

Veterinary Proctology student exercising his rights.

Not so sure, given Triumph's tastes as shown in the last segment...

36 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:19:47pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

Watching 'Spy' mode is weird. Tonight's Sign-ons are going over the day's battlefield like medieval peasants at Agincourt.

Careful. It's addictive.

37 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:20:10pm

Is Triumph what Rush will become after he is reincarnated?

38 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:20:27pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

Watching 'Spy' mode is weird. Tonight's Sign-ons are going over the day's battlefield like medieval peasants at Agincourt.

LOL!
looting the corpses

39 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:20:33pm

That video was nothing short of awesomely funny, but Conan still sucks.

40 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:20:52pm

re: #37 Sergey Romanov

Is Triumph what Rush will become after he is reincarnated?

Triumph's poop if he's lucky.

41 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:22:18pm

re: #37 Sergey Romanov

Is Triumph what Rush will become after he is reincarnated?

ALL I know is that I don't to be anywhere near that concert...

///

42 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:23:50pm

re: #41 wlewisiii

ALL I know is that I don't to be anywhere near that concert...

///

You'll smell it from afar.

43 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:24:04pm

Oh shit! I got this a month ago! Do you suppose the offer is still good?

Dear Friend,

My name is Seif al-Islam Gaddafi, I am the senior son of the Libya President Moammar Gadhafi. I am writing you this letter with all hope and courage from Almighty Allah that you will be able to help my family and meddling this hour of need and persecution throughout my father’s regime, I was given a lot of contracts to execute by various ministries, which I successfully completed, and the contract value paid to me accordingly.

We are therefore very surprised that the rebels are protesting against my father position, his political enemies and even those who benefited immensely from my father has all abandoned us. I made a lot of money during my father’s administrator. My father has already forfeited some money to the rebels in order to bring peace in the country, but all seems to be in vain.

About $700 million dollars cash was given to me by my father to keep and I was able to move about $40 million through diplomatic immunity baggage system with presidential plane to an undisclosed location abroad for safe keeping in a finance deposit company. I am now writing you this letter and soliciting your assistance to enable us retrieve this money. No risk involved, but due to our restricted movement and lack of money for my family as our family houses is burnt by the protesters, I would want you to present yourself as the beneficiary of the funds with the password, which I will give to you, and all the necessary documents with which the money was deposited will be sent to you on agreement.

You will be entitled to 30% of the total sum, as your share while 60% will be for us. The remaining 10% is to cover all expenses that may be incurred in the cause of this transaction. This arrangement is known to you and our Lawyer (barrister Saliu Azeeze) only. He will work directly with you. I will stop here for now. If you are interested please send me an email to my personal email address as follows: for detailed explanation and further discussion. Also include your telephone and fax numbers. My telephone and fax numbers shall be revealed to you once you indicate your interest. May Allah bless you as you assist my family?

Yours faithfully,

Seif al-Islam Gaddafi.
For my family.

44 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:24:12pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

Watching 'Spy' mode is weird. Tonight's Sign-ons are going over the day's battlefield like medieval peasants at Agincourt.

I highly recco this guy....he just wrote a book about Agincourt last year....tasty stuff

45 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:24:55pm

re: #41 wlewisiii

ALL I know is that I don't to be anywhere near that concert...

///

me neither...I can't wait to miss it

46 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:25:37pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

No, I already took it! Na na na na!

47 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:25:52pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

It's a once in a lifetime opportunity! Jump in it!

48 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:27:16pm

re: #46 Sergey Romanov

No, I already took it! Na na na na!

Damn!

Did you help him with his English too?

49 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:30:29pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

It sounds like GTAV has a more unique story line than the previous editions. I think GTA could take a break from the Scarface/Godfather thing anyways. I'd like to see it more like Clockwork Orange. Everyone plays the game like a sociopath anyways.

50 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:32:25pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

It sounds like GTAV has a more unique story line than the previous editions. I think GTA could take a break from the Scarface/Godfather thing anyways. I'd like to see it more like Clockwork Orange. Everyone plays the game like a sociopath anyways.

Yeah seems like most of the plots have had the same arc. I hope they do a good job on it. The one thing I always enjoy about Rockstar games though is how they incorporate humor and satire into the game.

51 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:32:28pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

I like how they always use "barrister".

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:33:42pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As long as we're talking about insulting...

Bankrupt church wants donations for pastor's sick wife ferried in limo

An insult to a nice tradition. One of my college friends lost her father as a young teenager. The church ladies brought them casseroles for months, since her mother was very much down for the count.

53 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:33:50pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

Yeah seems like most of the plots have had the same arc. I hope they do a good job on it. The one thing I always enjoy about Rockstar games though is how they incorporate humor and satire into the game.

They've lost a little bit of edge to political correctness but I hope they start pushing the boundaries more.

54 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:34:56pm

re: #44 albusteve

I highly recco this guy...he just wrote a book about Agincourt last year...tasty stuff

No linky...?

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:35:04pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

Watching 'Spy' mode is weird. Tonight's Sign-ons are going over the day's battlefield like medieval peasants at Agincourt.

What happened in the last thread? I stuck around long enough to see Buck pop up.

56 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:35:50pm

BTW, G20 is over with? No massive solidarity riots with OWS? Did it flop or are they waiting for Guy Fawkes night?

57 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:36:36pm

I'm sure everyone has seen [Link: www.419eater.com...] but if someone didn't, take a look. Craziest stories there in the Letters Archive.

58 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:37:09pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

What happened in the last thread? I stuck around long enough to see Buck pop up.

Imagine arguing about the Kama Sutra with Dustin Hoffman as Rainman.

59 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:38:17pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

No linky...?

had it up and didn't add it...my bad
Cornwell is just excellent
[Link: www.bernardcornwell.net...]

60 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:40:11pm

re: #55 SanFranciscoZionist

What happened in the last thread? I stuck around long enough to see Buck pop up.

buck pop? what?

(goes back to sleep...)

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:40:16pm

re: #58 Decatur Deb

Imagine arguing about the Kama Sutra with Dustin Hoffman as Rainman.

Now you're making me think I should go back.

62 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:42:44pm

re: #59 albusteve

had it up and didn't add it...my bad
Cornwell is just excellent
[Link: www.bernardcornwell.net...]

Ah--second page, 'Azincourt'. Thanks, I'll check my wife's Nook account.

64 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:43:11pm

Hi ho!!

Rain in So Cal. Really brutal. 35 minutes (when it's good). 1.75 hours tonight. All I did was try to keep away from the crazies. Phew!

65 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:44:25pm

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

*head desk*

Because when trying to position yourself as an outsider, the best strategy is to say I'm tight with these two insiders? Cain's a political idiot.

66 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:44:38pm

re: #64 Stanley Sea

Hi ho!!

Rain in So Cal. Really brutal. 35 minutes (when it's good). 1.75 hours tonight. All I did was try to keep away from the crazies. Phew!

Hey--missed you last night. Happy Birthday +1.

67 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:44:56pm

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

“I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother,” Cain told a crowd at a Koch-funded Americans For Prosperity gathering

Related:

brianbeutler Brian Beutler
by Gus_802
RT @toddzwillich BREAKING: Koch Bros' mother to file complaint against Herman Cain for "inappropriate" remarks that made her "uncomfortable"

68 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:45:05pm

Thanks to OWS in Oakland, the city is more ghetto than ever.

Way to go folks!!

69 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:45:12pm

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

Well, in context (joking) it's not as bad.

70 simoom  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:45:40pm

Fox Nation story:

EPA Chief Calls Republicans 'Jack-Booted Thugs'

With the link at the bottom sourcing their story to Weasel Zippers (which in turn links back to Red State).

Politico reports that it's all BS:
[Link: www.politico.com...]

According to video of the event Thursday and a transcript of the speech provided by the EPA, Jackson spent part of her speech debunking earlier inaccurate media reports that claimed the agency intended to “triple its budget and add 230,000 new regulators to cut greenhouse gas emissions from sources like — be prepared — backyard grills and cows.”

In fact, she noted, the EPA had proposed a “tailoring rule” meant to limit the permitting requirements to the biggest industrial emitters.

A massive expansion was never a possibility — and the people who cited the 230,000 new EPA jack-booted thugs knew that,” she said. “That number comes from an administration document explaining why you needed a Tailoring Rule.”

Politico prodded Redstate into a sort-of-retraction, while FoxNation's regurgitation of the made-up story remains unchanged.

71 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:45:46pm

Though Honestly I don't really mind the cloud of pot smoke that seems to permeate about.

72 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:46:01pm

Drudge pimping Alex Jones again (it's bee a while). Some crap about Jesse Ventura leaving the country.

73 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:46:25pm

re: #67 publicityStunted

Related:

Beautiful.

74 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:47:01pm

re: #64 Stanley Sea

A good day not to have to drive.
So. Cal drivers, do NOT understand wet roads.
And what is up with all the cars that stall out in the rain?
Their rubber bands melt, or what?

75 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:47:19pm

re: #68 eclectic infidel

Thanks to OWS in Oakland, the city is more ghetto than ever.

Way to go folks!!

Oakland was pretty ugly. I don't think the movement is going to last much longer. We'll see but I think we might see it fade over the next couple weeks.

76 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:47:49pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Drudge pimping Alex Jones again (it's bee a while). Some crap about Jesse Ventura leaving the country.

Does he need someone to drive the U-haul? I also offered for Paul Newman and every other douche who threatens but doesn't follow through.

77 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:48:21pm
78 Kragar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:48:51pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Drudge pimping Alex Jones again (it's bee a while). Some crap about Jesse Ventura leaving the country.

And there was great rejoicing.

79 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:49:37pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Oakland was pretty ugly. I don't think the movement is going to last much longer. We'll see but I think we might see it fade over the next couple weeks.

It has its nice neighborhoods but my comment really doesn't hold much water. After all, downtown Oakland is never really busy anyway and after 5 pm on any given day, the place becomes even more obnoxious and even somewhat hostile.

So I live here for the affordable rent, but spend quality time in San Francisco for fun and entertainment.

80 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:51:24pm

re: #63 goddamnedfrank

“I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother,” Cain told a crowd at a Koch-funded Americans For Prosperity gathering in Washington Friday.

Actually that is doubtful, considering Koch Sr.'s social and political views.

/

81 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:51:46pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

Ah--second page, 'Azincourt'. Thanks, I'll check my wife's Nook account.

you won't regret reading his stuff

82 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:52:18pm

re: #80 Sergey Romanov

Actually that is doubtful, considering Koch Sr.'s social and political views.

/

Bircher wasn't he? Pops Koch this is.

83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:52:50pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Race mixing is Communism.

84 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:53:09pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Bircher wasn't he? Pops Koch this is.

A founder, I think.

85 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:54:06pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Oakland was pretty ugly. I don't think the movement is going to last much longer. We'll see but I think we might see it fade over the next couple weeks.

there is no mission...there is no message
it's a bust, from the beginning....WS doesn't give a rats ass

86 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:54:08pm

re: #84 wrenchwench

A founder, I think.

Yeah just wikied him. JBS are and were nuts.

87 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:55:00pm

re: #66 Decatur Deb

Hey--missed you last night. Happy Birthday +1.

Thanks mucho! It was a good one. No more food for me though (well I'm off meat for while) I macked like no other!! Lol!!

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:55:23pm

re: #71 eclectic infidel

Though Honestly I don't really mind the cloud of pot smoke that seems to permeate about.

Drowns out the patchouli soap, does it?

89 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:56:36pm

i think i must have saved 100 grand offa the price on my house in the hills overlooking the treetops because of the word 'oakland'

90 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:57:01pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

Drowns out the patchouli soap, does it?

It's a start. Water-cannons loaded with Dial wouldn't hurt either, follwoed up by street-sweepers full of lysol concentrate. OWS et al are a sort of moveable bio-hazard. Expect the free clinics to have lots of custom in the weeks ahead.

91 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:57:37pm

Ugly, childish GOP shit:


I Do Not Agree With That Obama As Qaddafi Cartoon I Was Waving Around

An aide said Rehberg was handed the cartoon and by the man he’s talking to in the clip. “It’s not like he carries it around with him,” the aide said.

The staffer said Rehberg’s brandishing of the cartoon was “one of those situations in which you’re not going to be rude.”

You know, that's a situation where it's okay to be rude.

Jackass.

92 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:58:16pm

re: #71 eclectic infidel

Though Honestly I don't really mind the cloud of pot smoke that seems to permeate about.

Breitbart tried to make a big deal out of video evidence of pot at OWS Portland. I live in a nice neighborhood and the backyards here in summer of full of pot. A few years ago somebody put a huge bag of weed in my mailbox for no reason.

93 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:58:21pm

Pregnant with her fiancé's child, a woman in South Africa was horrified to learn that the father of her baby is her own brother.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Think of this the next time you think you're having a bad day.

94 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:59:21pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Breitbart tried to make a big deal out of video evidence of pot at OWS Portland. I live in a nice neighborhood and the backyards here in summer of full of pot. A few years ago somebody put a huge bag of weed in my mailbox for no reason.

Like zucchini, in more orthodox neighborhoods. Nice.

95 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:59:42pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Breitbart tried to make a big deal out of video evidence of pot at OWS Portland. I live in a nice neighborhood and the backyards here in summer of full of pot. A few years ago somebody put a huge bag of weed in my mailbox for no reason.

You were a good boy that year!///

96 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 4:59:51pm

re: #91 Obdicut

Ugly, childish GOP shit:

I Do Not Agree With That Obama As Qaddafi Cartoon I Was Waving Around

You know, that's a situation where it's okay to be rude.

Jackass.

cockroaches

97 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:00:46pm

On the opposite end of the moral spectrum:


The U.S. Congress held a ceremony on Capitol Hill on November 2, 2011 to award the Congressional Gold Medal, its highest civilian honor, to more than 1,000 Japanese-American veterans, now in their 80s and 90s, in recognition of their dedicated service during World War II.

98 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:01:28pm

re: #96 albusteve

cockroaches

No, the bar looks pretty clean. I doubt there are any cockroaches in there.

99 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:01:34pm

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

Drowns out the patchouli soap, does it?

Incidentally, can anyone explain why hippies and other assorted counter-cultural types adopted a traditional moth repellant as their chosen fragrance note? it's always mystified me - it'd be as if we conservatives all started dousing ourselves in camphor.

100 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:02:11pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Breitbart tried to make a big deal out of video evidence of pot at OWS Portland. I live in a nice neighborhood and the backyards here in summer of full of pot. A few years ago somebody put a huge bag of weed in my mailbox for no reason.

Note: Leave mailman larger box of Christmas cookies.

101 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:02:55pm

re: #97 Obdicut

Thanks for the link. It is about time!

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:03:05pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Breitbart tried to make a big deal out of video evidence of pot at OWS Portland. I live in a nice neighborhood and the backyards here in summer of full of pot. A few years ago somebody put a huge bag of weed in my mailbox for no reason.

Because everything is better with a bag of weed.

103 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:03:07pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

There actually was zero patchouli down at OWS when I was there.

And it's probably just because it's an eastern scent.

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:03:27pm

re: #103 Obdicut

Does it smell bad?

105 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:03:48pm

re: #97 Obdicut

On the opposite end of the moral spectrum:

The U.S. Congress held a ceremony on Capitol Hill on November 2, 2011 to award the Congressional Gold Medal, its highest civilian honor, to more than 1,000 Japanese-American veterans, now in their 80s and 90s, in recognition of their dedicated service during World War II.

Awesome. I had to fact check an article about Japanese Americans in WWII this summer at my internship. Senator Inoyve is one of the few WWII vets in office still.

106 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:03:51pm

re: #103 Obdicut

There actually was zero patchouli down at OWS when I was there.

And it's probably just because it's an eastern scent.

So's garlic. I guess they chose right, though.

107 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:04:15pm

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

Does it smell bad?

High quality Patchouli smells strong but good.

Unfortunately, the normal stuff sold in most shops smells like, as Patton Oswalt put it, "Dirt that's been fucked by a hobo".

108 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:04:44pm

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

Does it smell bad?

Which, patchouli or OWS?

109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:04:57pm

Celestial Seasonings Sleepy Time Tea with honey. Cinnamon Pop Tarts.
Watching Tosh.0.

Hell yeah.

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:05:05pm

re: #108 Guanxi88

Which, patchouli or OWS?

Patchouli.

111 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:05:28pm

re: #109 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Celestial Seasonings Sleepy Time Tea with honey. Cinnamon Pop Tarts.
Watching Tosh.0.

Hell yeah.

That's five points off your man card.

112 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:05:47pm

re: #107 Obdicut

High quality Patchouli smells strong but good.

Unfortunately, the normal stuff sold in most shops smells like, as Patton Oswalt put it, "Dirt that's been fucked by a hobo".


that is so clever...you should steal it

113 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:06:15pm

re: #110 Sergey Romanov

Patchouli.

I've never minded the smell of, as Obdi points out, good quality patchouli. Again, though, it's a strongish odor.

But I'm a guy who likes the smell of latakia and perique tobacco, so, to each his own.

114 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:06:57pm

re: #112 albusteve

Nah, I'd rather just use it but attribute it to Patton so he can get the credit for it, and maybe more people will check him out.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:07:31pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Incidentally, can anyone explain why hippies and other assorted counter-cultural types adopted a traditional moth repellant as their chosen fragrance note? it's always mystified me - it'd be as if we conservatives all started dousing ourselves in camphor.

It's actually a commonly used perfumers note. (Recent years have seen much complaining in perfume forums about the prevalence of 'fruitchouli' as a modern fragrance trend.) As a one-note hippie fragrance, I think it became popular through Indian body oils, and was favored because--before it became the signature scent of hippies everywhere--it was exotic. Eastern, rich, and not the smell of the White Shoulders your mother sent you off to college with.

There may be a more specific reason.

116 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:07:46pm

re: #111 Obdicut

That's five points off your man card.

He needs a snack after his bath.
/

117 laZardo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:07:50pm

ALSO

OS appears to have moved out of Westlake to the community college. The local anarchists have turned it into a commune.

Also haven't been around there much, for being a CAPITALIST WAEG SLAEV* and everything.

*safeway checker, 8.77/hr but it's a start :3

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:08:59pm

re: #110 Sergey Romanov

Patchouli.

To me, it just smells like small shops on Telegraph. A little cliched, but nice enough.

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:09:34pm

re: #111 Obdicut

That's five points off your man card.

I'm so far into the negative, it doesn't bother me.

120 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:09:51pm

re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm so far into the negative, it doesn't bother me.

FULL MAN POINTS RESTORED

121 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:09:56pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

Incidentally, can anyone explain why hippies and other assorted counter-cultural types adopted a traditional moth repellant as their chosen fragrance note? it's always mystified me - it'd be as if we conservatives all started dousing ourselves in camphor.

From you? Mr. Snuff? (btw - hi!!)

Counter mainstream will always be appealing. always.

122 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:10:33pm

re: #114 Obdicut

Nah, I'd rather just use it but attribute it to Patton so he can get the credit for it, and maybe more people will check him out.

[Video]

hey, use it everyday...twice

123 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:10:44pm

My brief and somewhat unpleasant experience w/OWS Oakland, Wed Nov 2nd:

Well...on Wednesday I was very tired. Didn't sleep well on Tuesday and in order to make sure I didn't fall asleep on BART whilst heading home, I had to quaff a couple pints of coffee to be safe.

So I arrive at 12th St City Center, downtown Oakland, literally in a daze, buzzed on caffeine but not really "there" (yes, I'm hinting at the whole there "there" thing but anyway, *ahem*). I walked into the far too bright sunlight and found myself standing in a crowd of somewhat serious and obviously stoned people, with a woman on a bullhorn trying to gather people to march forward. Yes, I literally walked right into the path of a march.

I got out of the way immediately, and attempted to find my bearings. This thought process was immediately interrupted by some guy, literally getting in my face and saying, "yos, whys you here? yous some buisness man come to check on us?"

I wasn't dressed in a suit. I had jeans on, with a button up, dress shirt tucked in with a belt with a fedora atop my head. My bag was strapped across my front and I was holding one of those travel coffee mugs. I think I looked more like a software engineer than a businessman, but whatever.

Suffice to say I didn't respond. I looked at him and his friends who were laughing at me, and I turned around and left. I remember seeing a "Palestinian" flag, a few anti-capitalist signs, and numerous references to Oscar Grant.

That isn't my crowd and really, I want nothing to do with it. While I think they have legitimate grievances, I don't see this movement going anywhere fast.

124 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:10:45pm

if you really want to know what scent hippie encampments reek of, it's burning sage

(aside from the scent of reefer which is about ubiquitous in any american gathering with an average age under 40 these days)

fucking sage 'incense'... getting on my nerves...

125 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:10:58pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

It's actually a commonly used perfumers note. (Recent years have seen much complaining in perfume forums about the prevalence of 'fruitchouli' as a modern fragrance trend.) As a one-note hippie fragrance, I think it became popular through Indian body oils, and was favored because--before it became the signature scent of hippies everywhere--it was exotic. Eastern, rich, and not the smell of the White Shoulders your mother sent you off to college with.

There may be a more specific reason.

No memory of patchouli from the 60s. Hippies smelled of wine, sweat and weed--serious people smelled of tear gas.

126 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:11:33pm

It is night #7 with no power in my (formerly) leafy Hartford, CT suburban town. I just finished my takeout Chinese food and opened both fortune cookies.

Fortune cookie number one said "God will help you overcome any hardship."

Fortune cookie number two said "Happiness always accompanies with you." (sic)

I wish one of my fortune cookies had said "Northeast utilities is working in your neighborhood."

127 laZardo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:11:50pm

re: #123 eclectic infidel

Well it is Oakland.

/partial

128 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:12:35pm

I grew up in the 60's. This whole OWS thing is like *Deja Vu all over again.

*great album, by the way

129 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:12:46pm

re: #121 Stanley Sea

From you? Mr. Snuff? (btw - hi!!)

Counter mainstream will always be appealing. always.

So conservative, I adopt the vices of the 18th century. Have had some Indian snuffs - can't stand them, far too floral and oleaginous. Give me a good, clean Scotch snuff, or maybe even a maccoboy. Even in exotic vices, I'm conservative.

130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:13:35pm

re: #123 eclectic infidel

Fedora? Totally bad-ass.

131 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:13:55pm

re: #122 albusteve

hey, use it everyday...twice

That would be kind of weird, Steve. Especially if the subject wasn't patchouli. You want to keep the phrases like "Dirt that's been fucked by a hobo" to the situationally appropriate occasions, or you'll get a reputation.

132 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:14:27pm

re: #130 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fedora? Totally bad-ass.

Own three, wear them in regular rotation, except when the humidity's too high. Man has to have a hat.

133 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:14:53pm

I hate patchouli. Every now and then someone gives me a one or a five dollar bill infused with it. Pollutes the whole drawer and I have to give it all away.

/on that last bit

134 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:15:08pm

re: #128 EdDantes

I grew up in the 60's. This whole OWS thing is like *Deja Vu all over again.

*great album, by the way

so did I...the massive anti war demos had an effect after a while...the OWS is so mickey mouse that I have no interest

135 CuriousLurker  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:15:13pm

NORQUIST: Four keys to conservative victory in 2012

Yeah, good luck with that list, Grover.

136 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:15:26pm

re: #126 _RememberTonyC

In Connecticut, utilities are saying that 99% of the customers will be restored by Sunday.

I kind of laughed...

Who wants to be in that 1%?

137 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:15:49pm

re: #123 eclectic infidel

My brief and somewhat unpleasant experience w/OWS Oakland, Wed Nov 2nd:

Well...on Wednesday I was very tired. Didn't sleep well on Tuesday and in order to make sure I didn't fall asleep on BART whilst heading home, I had to quaff a couple pints of coffee to be safe.

So I arrive at 12th St City Center, downtown Oakland, literally in a daze, buzzed on caffeine but not really "there" (yes, I'm hinting at the whole there "there" thing but anyway, *ahem*). I walked into the far too bright sunlight and found myself standing in a crowd of somewhat serious and obviously stoned people, with a woman on a bullhorn trying to gather people to march forward. Yes, I literally walked right into the path of a march.

I got out of the way immediately, and attempted to find my bearings. This thought process was immediately interrupted by some guy, literally getting in my face and saying, "yos, whys you here? yous some buisness man come to check on us?"

I wasn't dressed in a suit. I had jeans on, with a button up, dress shirt tucked in with a belt with a fedora atop my head. My bag was strapped across my front and I was holding one of those travel coffee mugs. I think I looked more like a software engineer than a businessman, but whatever.

Suffice to say I didn't respond. I looked at him and his friends who were laughing at me, and I turned around and left. I remember seeing a "Palestinian" flag, a few anti-capitalist signs, and numerous references to Oscar Grant.

That isn't my crowd and really, I want nothing to do with it. While I think they have legitimate grievances, I don't see this movement going anywhere fast.

Feet on the ground. Actual reporting, very appreciated.

138 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:15:52pm

re: #123 eclectic infidel

so, are you a software engineer?

139 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:15:54pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

I hate patchouli. Every now and then someone gives me a one or a five dollar bill infused with it. Pollutes the whole drawer and I have to give it all away.

/on that last bit

Heh. Yeah, I hear you. I routinely smell that, Nag Champa incense, and SOMETHING ELSE on a regular basis here in the SF Bay Area.

140 Lidane  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:16:02pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

I hate patchouli.

Oy. Patchouli. I don't know who thinks it smells good. It reminds me of people who haven't bathed in a while, so they douse themselves in patchouli to cover the smell.

141 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:16:28pm

re: #131 Obdicut

That would be kind of weird, Steve. Especially if the subject wasn't patchouli. You want to keep the phrases like "Dirt that's been fucked by a hobo" to the situationally appropriate occasions, or you'll get a reputation.

I wouldn't know...the whole stupid thing is beneath me, but I've no doubt you have it figured out

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:17:14pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

I hate patchouli. Every now and then someone gives me a one or a five dollar bill infused with it. Pollutes the whole drawer and I have to give it all away.

/on that last bit

People have strong reactions to the note sometimes. I don't mind it, but can't really wear it in perfume. Except for Clinique's Aromatics Elixir, which is beautiful.

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:17:18pm

re: #139 eclectic infidel

I routinely spell that, Nag Champa incense, and SOMETHING ELSE on a regular basis here in the SF Bay Area.

Smellchecker is your friend!

//sorry

144 EdDantes  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:17:29pm

re: #134 albusteve

so did I...the massive anti war demos had an effect after a while...the OWS is so mickey mouse that I have no interest

The ant-war movement was focused and had an admirable goal: to end that horrible war.

145 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:17:35pm

re: #141 albusteve

I wouldn't know...the whole stupid thing is beneath me, but I've no doubt you have it figured out

Um, what is beneath you? Stand up comedy? Patchouli?

You seem a little cranky. Maybe another blanket?

146 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:17:55pm

re: #138 engineer dog

so, are you a software engineer?

Ah no, I just have a few friends who are so and that is how they dress for the most part. I'm a jack-of-a-few-trades and am currently a culinary student.

147 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:18:59pm

re: #136 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In Connecticut, utilities are saying that 99% of the customers will be restored by Sunday.

I kind of laughed...

Who wants to be in that 1%?

Nobody believes that bullshit about 99% by midnight on Sunday. My town and at least one other have already cancelled school on Monday.

148 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:19:05pm

re: #144 EdDantes

The ant-war movement was focused and had an admirable goal: to end that horrible war.

yup, they took a hit and rocked on anyway...bigger and bigger until the weight alone was something DC could not accept....maybe a once in a lifetime gig

149 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:19:15pm

On the subject of exotic counter-culture vices, etc.

Company I work for is German.

So, on my coffee break, I sneak off to have a pinch of snuff. Find a quiet spot, and am about to dust my nostrils when I look over and see a "suit" looking at me.

"Schnupftabak?" he asks.

"Ja," I tell him, and extend my snuffbox.

Old Fritz there takes a huge double pinch, sniffs, and we both sort of laugh - he'd never had Ntsu (South African, super strong) before - when he has to lean against the wall for support when the rush comes on.

Good times.

150 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:19:32pm

re: #143 Sergey Romanov

Smellchecker is your friend!

//sorry

Very thoughtful. Thank you. :)

151 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:21:17pm

semi-random,

this looks like a terrible (or maybe terrifying) idea.

Image: Einschienerp.jpg

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:22:24pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

What ever happened to Lancome's Magie Noir?

Me likey.

153 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:22:35pm

The Fawkes disease has infected even the Russian ultranationalists. Here's from Nov. 4 "Russian March":

Image: maskak.jpg
Image: maskar.jpg

154 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:23:02pm

re: #145 Obdicut

Um, what is beneath you? Stand up comedy? Patchouli?

You seem a little cranky. Maybe another blanket?

weak

155 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:24:15pm

re: #153 Sergey Romanov

V masks are the worst thing ever added to (non-violent) protests ever.

156 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:24:32pm

re: #149 Guanxi88

Only in America, and only in Texas, could a German and an American enjoy a South African snuff while surrounded by mystified and quizzical folk speaking Spanish.

157 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:24:33pm
158 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:25:10pm

re: #156 Guanxi88

Only in America, and only in Texas, could a German and an American enjoy a South African snuff while surrounded by mystified and quizzical folk speaking Spanish.

Or Argentina. Or in California. Or Mexico. Or a lot of other places, really.

159 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:25:58pm

re: #155 windsagio

V masks are the worst thing ever added to (non-violent) protests ever.

seriously?...why?

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:26:10pm

re: #155 windsagio

Esp. the Fawkes' stache and goatee.

161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:26:26pm

re: #149 Guanxi88

That is one habit I will never get a grasp on.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:27:11pm

re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What ever happened to Lancome's Magie Noir?

Me likey.

It's still on the market, although I can't swear it wasn't reformulated.

GF of mine wears it. Lovely stuff.

163 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:27:44pm

re: #158 Obdicut

Or Argentina. Or in California. Or Mexico. Or a lot of other places, really.

Except that it's most unlikely that I'd be working for a German company in Argentina. And they'd never set up in California - hell, you left it yourself. And as for Mexico, well, they only make tires there.

But your pedantic and hair-splitting point is taken. Theoretically, a German and an American could enjoy a South African snuff while in proximity to persons speaking Spanish.

164 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:28:05pm

“In Chile, O’Hara is a name of honor. Many Germans in Chile are named O’Hara.”

Image: beat_the_devil.jpg

Underrated movie.

165 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:28:11pm

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is one habit I will never get a grasp on.

Gotta try it. It's the best.

166 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:28:32pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

Except that it's most unlikely that I'd be working for a German company in Argentina. And they'd never set up in California - hell, you left it yourself. And as for Mexico, well, they only make tires there.

But your pedantic and hair-splitting point is taken. Theoretically, a German and an American could enjoy a South African snuff while in proximity to persons speaking Spanish.

LOL!

167 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:28:56pm

re: #153 Sergey Romanov

The Fawkes disease has infected even the Russian ultranationalists. Here's from Nov. 4 "Russian March":

Image: maskak.jpg
Image: maskar.jpg

I've noticed a few MSM articles today explaining the Guy Fawkes thing. I'm all for pointing out violent extremism but I get the impression most folks don't know or care what the mask really means. It's just a cool radical uniform like a Che t-shirt.

168 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:29:36pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

I've noticed a few MSM articles today explaining the Guy Fawkes thing. I'm all for pointing out violent extremism but I get the impression most folks don't know or care what the mask really means. It's just a cool radical uniform like a Che t-shirt.

yup...protest chic

169 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:29:49pm
170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:29:56pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

Put the right amount on Michael Moore and I'd buy him a drink.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:30:58pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

As I see it, those events are a bit like ancient history. Like wearing a Chingiz-Khan mask, meh.

172 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:31:11pm

re: #158 Obdicut

Or Argentina. Or in California. Or Mexico. Or a lot of other places, really.

Addendum:

Never could happen in California. Two reasons:

1) It's tobacco use, which is a crime on a par with conservatism there;

2) It's a factory actually hiring people, and not fleeing confiscatory taxation and punitive regulation.

173 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:31:35pm

WH chic...
Mao Christmas tree ornaments...
classic

174 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:32:03pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

Except that it's most unlikely that I'd be working for a German company in Argentina.

Why?

And they'd never set up in California - hell, you left it yourself.

I used to hang with a bunch of German and Austrian dudes from the SAP office in Palo Alto. Nice guys. SAP products are fun, because if you get them to crash hard enough, they give debug asserts in German.

175 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:32:17pm

re: #168 albusteve

I'm curious why you asked me why, when you clearly already knew :p

Also, they're a little self-important.

176 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:33:01pm

re: #175 windsagio

I'm curious why you asked me why, when you clearly already knew :p

Also, they're a little self-important.

I don't scroll up

177 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:33:40pm

re: #176 albusteve

even for you steve, that makes absolutely no sense at all :D

178 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:33:56pm

re: #174 Obdicut

Why?

I used to hang with a bunch of German and Austrian dudes from the SAP office in Palo Alto. Nice guys. SAP products are fun, because if you get them to crash hard enough, they give debug asserts in German.

Why not Argentina? Because I'm not there. An excellent reason

As for the Germans in Cali: Who said they weren't nice guys? But, as you know, there are far better opportunities for industry outside of the California Republic.

And, again, it's tobacco, which is rather frowned upon there, so defectors report,

179 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:34:17pm

re: #177 windsagio

even for you steve, that makes absolutely no sense at all :D

so I'm in your club?

180 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:34:37pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

As I see it, those events are a bit like ancient history. Like wearing a Chingiz-Khan mask, meh.

Like wearing a zoot suit at woodstock?

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:34:49pm

re: #171 Sergey Romanov

As I see it, those events are a bit like ancient history. Like wearing a Chingiz-Khan mask, meh.

Sure. I mean, no one in living memory was almost blown up by Guy Fawkes. It references the movie, not the historical figure.

Which is, to my mind, not much better. I really hated that movie.

182 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:36:07pm

re: #172 Guanxi88

Addendum:

Never could happen in California. Two reasons:

1) It's tobacco use, which is a crime on a par with conservatism there;

2) It's a factory actually hiring people, and not fleeing confiscatory taxation and punitive regulation.

Oh, mindless California-bashing. Never mind.

It's cool that you like Texas. I'm glad you're happy there.

If you do visit the real California, rather than the bizzarro parody version where patchouli-stinking snipers shoot cigarettes out of the mouths of hapless long-haul truckers, check out The Oaks Smokes, a really cool tobacco place that a friend of mine used to work at. They have everything, and what they don't have, they'll get for you.

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:36:07pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

That too.

> I really hated that movie.

Why?

184 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:36:09pm

re: #180 Guanxi88

Like wearing a zoot suit at woodstock?

thankfully, Santana passed on that count

185 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:36:33pm

re: #179 albusteve

na, see I actually have a point.

You just try to get people mad (and look like you're too tough and cynical to be fooled by anything!)

186 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:36:43pm

---

187 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:37:05pm

re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is one habit I will never get a grasp on.

It's not hard. Takes a few days' practice, and before you know it, you're hitting ebay looking for a silver snuffbox. Intense nicotine hit, very few (perhaps no) real risk of carcinoma, and very few people "bumming" from you when they run out. Managed to get three smokers at the plant to start snuffing, and hope to switch a few more over before it's all over.

188 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:37:24pm

I can't quite catch the drift of this Germany/California thing.

189 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:37:41pm

re: #185 windsagio

na, see I actually have a point.

You just try to get people mad (and look like you're too tough and cynical to be fooled by anything!)

what is your point?

190 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:37:45pm

re: #188 windsagio

I can't quite catch the drift of this Germany/California thing.

Nobody lives in California anymore because it's too crowded.

191 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:38:47pm

re: #190 Obdicut

Nobody lives in California anymore because it's too crowded.

And every other place is ruined because all the Californians moved there.

192 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:39:09pm

re: #182 Obdicut

Oh, mindless California-bashing. Never mind.

It's cool that you like Texas. I'm glad you're happy there.

If you do visit the real California, rather than the bizzarro parody version where patchouli-stinking snipers shoot cigarettes out of the mouths of hapless long-haul truckers, check out The Oaks Smokes, a really cool tobacco place that a friend of mine used to work at. They have everything, and what they don't have, they'll get for you.

There are no snipers in Cali. You folk are disarmed.

And yes, I was needlessly bashing your beloved former home state. Primarily to tweak the nose of one from whom I haven't heard in a while, and to have a bit of fun at the expense of the sunshine state.

193 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:39:27pm

re: #190 Obdicut

Nobody lives in California anymore because it's too crowded.

Are you channeling Yogi Berra?

194 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:39:42pm

re: #185 windsagio

You just try to get people mad (and look like you're too tough and cynical to be fooled by anything!)

Yet here we are with you mad and Steve is still cynical. Who do you think is "winning"?

195 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:40:03pm

re: #186 engineer dog

and which bastion of low state taxes, regulatory free industrial areas, and proud and assertive tobacco indulgence do you live in?

Why, Texas, of course. Where it's legal so long as you hide the bodies real good.

196 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:40:09pm

re: #191 wrenchwench

And every other place is ruined because all the Californians moved there.

like a disease

197 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:40:20pm

re: #192 Guanxi88

There are no snipers in Cali. You folk are disarmed.

And yes, I was needlessly bashing your beloved former home state. Primarily to tweak the nose of one from whom I haven't heard in a while, and to have a bit of fun at the expense of the sunshine state.

Heh. Just check my safe sometime.

198 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:40:58pm

re: #188 windsagio

I can't quite catch the drift of this Germany/California thing.

Maybe this will help.

199 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:19pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Yet here we are with you mad and Steve is still cynical. Who do you think is "winning"?

all that without even a bow

200 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:26pm

re: #192 Guanxi88

It kind of falls flat, since your version of California's reality departs so wildly from what it is, the humor falls off the tracks along the way.

Maybe you could spell it with a K or something. Kalifornia. That'd be new and rad.

201 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:38pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Communism!

Na seriously, it all works out in the long run, except for the occasional outbreak of tribalism, people are a lot less likely to fall for the schtick than they used to be.

'lol U mad' isn't a very good argument tho' :(

202 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:42pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Yet here we are with you mad and Steve is still cynical. Who do you think is "winning"?

Charlie Sheen

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:54pm

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

That too.

> I really hated that movie.

Why?

Because it was stupid!!

OK, in more detail:

1. Futuristic dystopias have to be really good to make me like them. (Now the movie of Out of Blue Six, that would be awesome.) This is one I've seen a lot of times, and it's not all that original or well-done.

2. The plot seemed both dull and wildly improbable.

3. The fact that it was V holding and torturing Evie and not the 'actual' bad guys just broke it for me. Huh say what, sure that makes sense.

204 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:54pm

Anybody know what is going on in Stockholm?

solhog Sol Hog
!!!!! RT @Afrahnasser: one BIG explosion in #Stockholm at #Hagsatra now ! :O #Sweden

205 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:41:56pm

re: #193 _RememberTonyC

Are you channeling Yogi Berra?

"the future ain't what it used to be"

206 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:42:06pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Yet here we are with you mad and Steve is still cynical. Who do you think is "winning"?

Buck.

207 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:42:20pm

re: #202 _RememberTonyC

Charlie Sheen

Tiger blood!

208 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:42:42pm

re: #191 wrenchwench

Man, the memories there. Cali hate was like our bread and butter up in Seattle in the old days :D

209 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:42:42pm
210 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:42:56pm

re: #188 windsagio

I can't quite catch the drift of this Germany/California thing.

look up!...ZOOM!

211 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:43:04pm

re: #200 Obdicut

It kind of falls flat, since your version of California's reality departs so wildly from what it is, the humor falls off the tracks along the way.

Maybe you could spell it with a K or something. Kalifornia. That'd be new and rad.

You should visit, perhaps, the theocratic backwater of exploited industrial labor and benighted racism that is the Texas of your own fevered imagination. You'd rather like it, I daresay, for it's a great place.

Though, if you're touchy and literal, folk will look at you askance.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:43:21pm

re: #192 Guanxi88

There are no snipers in Cali. You folk are disarmed.

Oh dear. How to put it? "There are some parts of Oakland I would advise the Reich not to attempt to invade..."

213 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:43:41pm

re: #195 Guanxi88

Why, Texas, of course. Where it's legal so long as you hide the bodies real good.

please forgive my ill temper

it's inexcusable, especially since i don't have to live someplace that's not california

214 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:43:41pm

re: #211 Guanxi88

When have I ever said a negative thing about Texas?

Are you confusing me with someone else?

215 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:44:49pm

re: #214 Obdicut

When have I ever said a negative thing about Texas?

Are you confusing me with someone else?

Now, are you going to pretend, after all the exchanges we've had, that you hold no brief against Texas? If so, sir, well......

216 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:44:58pm

re: #208 windsagio

Man, the memories there. Cali hate was like our bread and butter up in Seattle in the old days :D

I know. I moved from California to Oregon to Washington to New Mexico. But I was born in Wisconsin so I'm immune.

217 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:45:33pm

re: #209 Obdicut

I think you defeated that conversation :p

218 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:46:35pm

re: #215 Guanxi88

Now, are you going to pretend, after all the exchanges we've had, that you hold no brief against Texas? If so, sir, well...

No, there's no pretense. I have no beef with Texas. People who have beefs with states are idiots. I don't like what the Texas Board of Education does, but that's not Texas. That's a part of Texas. Texas is just another place, filled with humans, with it's up sides and down sides to it.

Why do you think I have a 'brief' against Texas?

219 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:47:30pm

re: #214 Obdicut

When have I ever said a negative thing about Texas?

He appears to be nursing a grudge over this weird-ass thread. No idea why, as it was several months ago.

220 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:47:58pm

re: #205 albusteve

"the future ain't what it used to be"

Pizza guy to Yogi: "do you want me to cut the pie into 8 slices or 6?"

Yogi to pizza guy: "6 slices, because I'm not hungry enough to eat 8."

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:48:14pm

Incidentally, the state with the highest proportion of smokers is West Virginia, and I swear to God, I don't know why anyone in that state is still alive, except that they're tough as hell, and possibly mutated.

222 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:48:20pm

re: #216 wrenchwench

I know. I moved from California to Oregon to Washington to New Mexico. But I was born in Wisconsin so I'm immune.

The only place I've lived in that I hold actual antipathy for is Boston, but that's more because I was going through a really shitty time while I was there. I wasn't really sorry when my wife didn't get into Harvard medical-- and it wasn't an MdPhD program, so luckily it didn't upset her too much either, since she got into the program here.

223 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:49:12pm

re: #218 Obdicut

No, there's no pretense. I have no beef with Texas. People who have beefs with states are idiots. I don't like what the Texas Board of Education does, but that's not Texas. That's a part of Texas. Texas is just another place, filled with humans, with it's up sides and down sides to it.

Why do you think I have a 'brief' against Texas?

Ahh, back to hair-splitting. No brief against texas, just elements of the government, elected by the people and/or appointed by those elected by the people thereof.

So, what you mean to say, then, is that in terms of the geographical area described on survey and USGS maps, you have no problem with Texas, but you disapprove of what goes on there, in accordance with the wishes of its population?

High praise, indeed. Very tolerant of you.

224 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:49:17pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

That's the most likely explanation given polonium in tobacco.

225 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:49:32pm

re: #182 Obdicut

mindless California-bashing

having spent most of my life living in either nyc or california, i've heard a lot of crazy things about each over the years

californians on nyc: "how can you live in a place where you have to carry a handgun if you go out after dark?"

new yorkers on california: "when you're living in california, don't you miss trees?"

226 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:50:00pm

re: #220 _RememberTonyC

Pizza guy to Yogi: "do you want me to cut the pie into 8 slices or 6?"

Yogi to pizza guy: "6 slices, because I'm not hungry enough to eat 8."

Here's another: Always go to people's funerals or else they won't go to yours. My all time favorite is his reaction to being told that Dublin had a Jewish lord mayor. "Only in America."

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:51:06pm

re: #225 engineer dog

having spent most of my life living in either nyc or california, i've heard a lot of crazy things about each over the years

californians on nyc: "how can you live in a place where you have to carry a handgun if you go out after dark?"

new yorkers on california: "when you're living in california, don't you miss trees?"

When you live in California during winter storms, you just hope the trees miss you.

228 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:51:11pm

re: #223 Guanxi88

Ahh, back to hair-splitting. No brief against texas, just elements of the government, elected by the people and/or appointed by those elected by the people thereof.

Er, yeah. Elements. Kind of like how if someone doesn't particularly like Obama, they're not anti-American.

So, what you mean to say, then, is that in terms of the geographical area described on survey and USGS maps, you have no problem with Texas, but you disapprove of what goes on there, in accordance with the wishes of its population?

No, just the educational standards getting fucked up by theology. Other than that, i don't really know much about Texas politics to be able to comment one way or the other.

What is the deal, man? Do you honestly feel that someone who thinks that Texas is screwing up their educational standards has a brief against Texas? What about Texans who feel that way?

229 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:51:17pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

To be nasty about, they are like the Tribals in Port Lookout in Fallout 3.

230 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:51:33pm

re: #219 publicityStunted

He appears to be nursing a grudge over this weird-ass thread. No idea why, as it was several months ago.

You have a great memory or a scary set of files....

Or both!

231 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:51:55pm

re: #219 publicityStunted

He appears to be nursing a grudge over this weird-ass thread. No idea why, as it was several months ago.

No, I'd rather forgotten that one.

I was merely tweaking Obdi, a long-time and honorable sparring partner here, following a long absence, and boosting the state that has seen job growth keep pace with an explosion of outsiders (from other, presumably better, places) moving in.

let each man be happy where he is.

232 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:52:00pm

re: #223 Guanxi88

Ahh, back to hair-splitting. No brief against texas, just elements of the government, elected by the people and/or appointed by those elected by the people thereof.

So, what you mean to say, then, is that in terms of the geographical area described on survey and USGS maps, you have no problem with Texas, but you disapprove of what goes on there, in accordance with the wishes of its population?

High praise, indeed. Very tolerant of you.

isn't this blog full of people criticizing government of every kind everywhere


isn't that like, all of the blogosphere in a nutshell, criticizing foreign governments, domestic governments...

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:52:35pm

re: #223 Guanxi88

Wait. Are you saying that the whole Texas should be held accountable for BoE? But that means you are condemning Texas (unless you approve of Texas BoE which would make you... well, I don't want to derail this derailment just yet ;).

Seems like we're more charitable to Texas.

234 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:52:37pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Here's another: Always go to people's funerals or else they won't go to yours. My all time favorite is his reaction to being told that Dublin had a Jewish lord mayor. "Only in America."

Or Argentina. Or California. Or Mexico. or anyplace, really.

235 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:52:56pm

re: #225 engineer dog

having spent most of my life living in either nyc or california, i've heard a lot of crazy things about each over the years

californians on nyc: "how can you live in a place where you have to carry a handgun if you go out after dark?"

new yorkers on california: "when you're living in california, don't you miss trees?"

One of the things I miss about California is palm trees.

236 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:53:27pm

re: #234 Guanxi88

Or Argentina. Or California. Or Mexico. or anyplace, really.

Yes, that was the point of that quote, given that Dublin is not in America.

237 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:54:44pm

re: #225 engineer dog

new yorkers on california: "when you're living in california, don't you miss trees?"

New Yorkers think they have more trees than Cali?

Image: california-giant-sequoia-trees.jpg

238 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:54:52pm

re: #236 Obdicut

Yes, that was the point of that quote, given that Dublin is not in America.

Well, except this Dublin:


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Which has a kick-ass St. Patrick's Day parade.

239 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:54:57pm

Buck is defending Cain on a dead thread.

Buck wins!

240 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:55:55pm

re: #237 windsagio

My favorite part of California is very short on trees:

Image: rawlings-walter-coastal-hills-of-marin-county-at-dusk-california-united-states-of-america-north-america.jpg

But they're there.

241 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:56:22pm

re: #228 Obdicut

Except, of course, educational standards aren't fucked up here in Texas. Latino and Black students in the publics here supass those in Illinois, among other places.

And the bug-bear of theocracy in Texas is laughable on its face. Comparable to the fears of Obama's secret muslim-ness.

As for the distinction between the state and its government and its people, well, that's splitting the hair three ways, is it not? Or do you suppose the state is anything other than the expression of the collective will of its people?

242 Amory Blaine  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:57:10pm

Secede already.

243 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:57:13pm

re: #240 Obdicut

The trick is you have the option. I'm convinced most urban east coasters don't know what a real tree is.

244 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:57:18pm

re: #236 Obdicut

Yes, that was the point of that quote, given that Dublin is not in America.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Really interesting guy by the way. Worked hard to help Jewish refugees during WWII.

245 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:57:24pm

re: #236 Obdicut

Yes, that was the point of that quote, given that Dublin is not in America.

See, that's what we call "Humor", Obdi. As a literalist (except when it does not serve whatever point or collection of points you wish to defend at the moment), it escapes you.

246 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:57:29pm

re: #241 Guanxi88

I'm assuming you got that from the Institute of pulling it out of your ass?

247 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:57:52pm

re: #242 Amory Blaine

Secede already.

You'd be lost without us.

248 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:58:02pm

re: #242 Amory Blaine

Secede already.

Or at least spell "surpass" correctly.

249 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:58:31pm

re: #246 ProLifeLiberal

I'm assuming you got that from the Institute of pulling it out of your ass?

U.S. Department of Education changed its name recently? They need to update their letterhead, then.

250 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:59:19pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #235 wrenchwench

re: #237 windsagio

New Yorkers think they have more trees than Cali?

Image: california-giant-sequoia-trees.jpg

yeah - on closer questioning of people in nyc who said things like that, i found out that california is a giant venice beach consisting of sandy beaches with woodies filled with surfboards, highways, blond surfer dudes and bikini babes, highways, movie openings at grauman's chinese, laws compelling everybody to wear sunglasses 24 hrs a day, and highways - that all go to the beach

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:59:28pm

re: #239 wrenchwench

Buck is defending Cain on a dead thread.

Buck wins!

Oh dear. Poor Buck.

252 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 5:59:58pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

Links or it didn't happen?

253 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:00:36pm

re: #250 engineer dog

I can't really speak on this issue anyays if I'm honest, I have a deep horror at the idea in living in any EC city.

254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:01:22pm

re: #240 Obdicut

I drove through much of Cali over a couple of months.

The areas without many people? Otherworldly beautiful.

Parts with lots of people? Not so much.

255 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:01:31pm

re: #241 Guanxi88

Except, of course, educational standards aren't fucked up here in Texas. Latino and Black students in the publics here supass those in Illinois, among other places.

I'm referring to the specific changes to the curriculum that the Texas School Board proposed-- many of which didn't make it through, but some of which did. Since they're just now going into effect, the current rates of success don't have anything to do with them. In fact, what I'm saying is that Texas's current educational standards are being lowered-- which implies nothing negative about where they were before.

And the bug-bear of theocracy in Texas is laughable on its face. Comparable to the fears of Obama's secret muslim-ness.

Why is it laughable? Actual changes occurred due to religious input. An attempt was made to remove the Speaker because he was Jewish. I'm glad it failed, but it still happened. How is that a laughing matter?

As for the distinction between the state and its government and its people, well, that's splitting the hair three ways, is it not? Or do you suppose the state is anything other than the expression of the collective will of its people?

Oh hell yes I do. Otherwise, how do you explain Texans who object to the changes of the educational standards? Are they not really Texans, therefore? Are only those on the winning side of votes really members of that state? I completely don't get this point of view.

256 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:01:54pm

re: #247 Guanxi88

No, I think we'd do fine without you.

You'd lose bases, subsidies, the space program, a whole lot of stuff.

You see, for hating the government so much, many of those precious jobs of yours come from the Feds.

I wish the Feds would pull all offices out of Texas. SInce they hate the Feds so much, they won't miss those jobs.

There's a Culture War in the US, and your state is on the wrong side of it, so I'll probably be the nastiest against your little hovel.

re: #249 Guanxi88

I've heard the exact opposite elsewhere. In my opinion, Conservatives cannot educate, only indoctrinate.

257 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:01:55pm

re: #208 windsagio

Man, the memories there. Cali hate was like our bread and butter up in Seattle in the old days :D

well that says alot....hating other states for some stupid reason is now a LGF pastime....always wondered how that works

258 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:02:05pm

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Bay really is nice, so is San Diego. LA and Stockton? Not so much.

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:02:27pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh dear. Poor Buck.

LOL, I kinda empathize. For him this blog went from a swimming pool on a sunny day into a swimming pool filled with sharks (with lay-zers on their heads). Yet he clings on for some reason and in all earnestness.

260 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:02:42pm

re: #245 Guanxi88

See, that's what we call "Humor", Obdi. As a literalist (except when it does not serve whatever point or collection of points you wish to defend at the moment), it escapes you.

Yes. Anyone can see from reading this thread, that the concept of humor is completely foreign to me. I literally was talking about patchouli stinking snipers shooting out cigarettes.

Image: literally-mouse-literally-funny-demotivational-posters-1296376121.jpg

261 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:03:16pm

re: #252 windsagio

Links or it didn't happen?

[Link: www.time.com...]

But Time mag may be Koch-Funded. Not sure how reliable they are.

262 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:03:32pm

re: #243 windsagio

The trick is you have the option. I'm convinced most urban east coasters don't know what a real tree is.

I'm convinced you're convinced

263 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:03:50pm

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I drove through much of Cali over a couple of months.

The areas without many people? Otherworldly beautiful.

Parts with lots of people? Not so much.

I love the hills north of San Francisco and curse the ever-creeping development there, though people gotta have a place to live, so I don't begrudge it. But the spaces of my childhood slowly get paved over.

264 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:04:05pm
265 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:04:05pm

re: #253 windsagio

I can't really speak on this issue anyays if I'm honest, I have a deep horror at the idea in living in any EC city.

i was born in manhattan, a unique and wonderful place that i will always love, but note that i am not living there

266 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:04:34pm

re: #256 ProLifeLiberal

No, I think we'd do fine without you.

You'd lose bases, subsidies, the space program, a whole lot of stuff.

You see, for hating the government so much, many of those precious jobs of yours come from the Feds.

I wish the Feds would pull all offices out of Texas. SInce they hate the Feds so much, they won't miss those jobs.

There's a Culture War in the US, and your state is on the wrong side of it, so I'll probably be the nastiest against your little hovel.

re: #249 Guanxi88

I've heard the exact opposite elsewhere. In my opinion, Conservatives cannot educate, only indoctrinate.

Enjoy your cold, dark superiority. No oil or natural gas for you.

267 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:05:16pm

apparently its image macro day.

Image: lets-get-it-on.jpg

268 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:05:36pm

re: #259 Sergey Romanov

LOL, I kinda empathize. For him this blog went from a swimming pool on a sunny day into a swimming pool filled with sharks (with lay-zers on their heads). Yet he clings on for some reason and in all earnestness.

I admire him just for putting up with all the phony nastiness heaped on him

269 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:05:49pm

re: #243 windsagio

The trick is you have the option. I'm convinced most urban east coasters don't know what a real tree is.

I can't think of an Urban east coast city that doesn't have a lot of trees in it.

They may not know what a forest is, but:

Image: central_park_restlus_2.jpg

270 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:06:00pm

re: #260 Obdicut

Yes. Anyone can see from reading this thread, that the concept of humor is completely foreign to me. I literally was talking about patchouli stinking snipers shooting out cigarettes.

Image: literally-mouse-literally-funny-demotivational-posters-1296376121.jpg

You did use those words, did you not? And if you're going to insist that the snuff exchange be judged by literal standards, why not your own words?

271 jaunte  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:06:19pm

Comparing stats of Texas (whole state) vs. Chicago (one city). Something's off.

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:06:33pm

re: #268 albusteve

I admire him just for putting up with all the phony nastiness heaped on him

I think he might enjoy most of it ;)

273 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:06:45pm

re: #264 windsagio

Image: Haters_gonna_hate_by_shydude.jpg

you have a terrible memory

274 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:06:58pm

re: #269 Obdicut

that's not a tree, these are trees!

Image: s_douglas_fir.jpg

275 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:07:10pm

re: #266 Guanxi88

And we can talk to Canada about that.

At least they don't throw replace their Founding Fathers with Calvin. I forgot to take my Autism medicines, so I can be REAL mean.

Edit: Proof Reading, I need to do it.

276 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:07:48pm

re: #260 Obdicut

Yes. Anyone can see from reading this thread, that the concept of humor is completely foreign to me. I literally was talking about patchouli stinking snipers shooting out cigarettes.

Image: literally-mouse-literally-funny-demotivational-posters-1296376121.jpg

re: #271 jaunte

Comparing stats of Texas (whole state) vs. Chicago (one city). Something's off.

Dollars per student. Though, Texas probably educates more recent immigrants, per capita and perhaps even in total #'s, than does Chi-town. Still....

277 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:08:00pm

re: #272 Sergey Romanov

I think he might enjoy most of it ;)

maybe...he makes others look worse than himself

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:08:18pm

re: #259 Sergey Romanov

LOL, I kinda empathize. For him this blog went from a swimming pool on a sunny day into a swimming pool filled with sharks (with lay-zers on their heads). Yet he clings on for some reason and in all earnestness.

I'm afraid we're getting to him. He cussed earlier. I've never seen Buck do that.

Seriously, he's a pleasant man, who will worry an idea to death. I think he's desperately partisan, to the point of sometimes being hilarious, but he's courteous, and he plays his part in our little drama.

279 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:08:31pm

re: #275 ProLifeLiberal

It's kind of our duty to humanity to keep Texas in the union.

Can you imagine what it would be like living under those fuckers if you weren't a 57 year old white male protestant?

Sometimes you have to take a bullet to make the whole world better.

280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:08:31pm

re: #258 windsagio

The Bay really is nice, so is San Diego. LA and Stockton? Not so much.

On the back of USA Today, there is a weather map with a list of cities in America with their weather reports. IIRC there are 109 Cities. Of those? I've think I've been in 95.

I've been in Mission Street in San Francisco and it is the worst place I've ever seen in America.

San Diego is actually pretty, what I saw. I spent a week at the Hotel Del Coronado.

ENVY ME!

281 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:08:43pm

re: #277 albusteve

maybe...he makes others look worse than himself

Doesn't quite work as a compliment ;)

282 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:08:59pm

re: #275 ProLifeLiberal

And we can talk to Canada about that.

At least they don't throw replace their Founding Fathers with Calvin. I forgot to take my Autism, so I can be REAL mean.

Yeah, Texas is against vaccines. And medicine. And schoolin'.

Thank God almighty this nation is preserved, but not led, by such enlightened minds.

283 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:09:31pm

Time to go home.

Later, lizards.

284 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:09:51pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm afraid we're getting to him. He cussed earlier. I've never seen Buck do that.

Seriously, he's a pleasant man, who will worry an idea to death. I think he's desperately partisan, to the point of sometimes being hilarious, but he's courteous, and he plays his part in our little drama.

and he deserves as much respect as any other poster, yet gets hammered with rude crap that I wouldn't tolerate

285 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:10:00pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. And that comment about Canada was unnecessary, both in relation to Buck and in general. So I updinged his cussing.

286 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:10:29pm

re: #279 windsagio

It's kind of our duty to humanity to keep Texas in the union.

Can you imagine what it would be like living under those fuckers if you weren't a 57 year old white male protestant?

Sometimes you have to take a bullet to make the whole world better.

Yeah, 'cause lord knows, the state's all white, ain't it? Honestly, you people have no more clue about Texas and what it's like than a straight man knows about being gay.

287 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:11:09pm

re: #284 albusteve

he likes it.

Buck is one of those guys who pretty clearly thrives off of the hostility and a nice ol' sense of victimhood.

Probably goes to bed each night telling himself how he 'spoke truth to power' (on a blog)

288 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:11:29pm

re: #285 Sergey Romanov

Agreed. And that comment about Canada was unnecessary, both in relation to Buck and in general. So I updinged his cussing.

you're a good guy...other's not so much...a bunch of vultures

289 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:11:40pm

re: #270 Guanxi88

You did use those words, did you not? And if you're going to insist that the snuff exchange be judged by literal standards, why not your own words?

I'm not really insisting on much. I was a little surprised when you doubled down and insisted the exchange really couldn't be happening anywhere else, but it's not really a big deal.

I think the Yogi Berrism has a nifty truth at the heart of it; there's really very few 'only in..' cases in the world, especially in this day and age. We're a lot more intertwined, culture more fluid, than we would think.

Thus the wonderful moment in the movie Cold Fever where the lost, half-frozen Japanese tourist stumbles into an Icelandic bar and sees a bunch of people in cowboy hats line dancing, and is greeted with "Welcome to the home of the Icelandic cowboy".

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

One of my favorite movies.

290 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:11:40pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not that I "worry" or am overly concerned about it, but I don't like earnest debaters like Buck being "driven out", even if their debating sometimes turns into trolling.

291 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:11:50pm

re: #286 Guanxi88

my point is rather that its not fair to the non-whites there.

also to the women.

also to the non-evangelicals.

292 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:12:08pm

re: #282 Guanxi88

I've seen little in the way of enlightenment from Texas recently. Therefore, your state gets judged accordingly.

re: #286 Guanxi88

And you have blinders as to what is going on there.

293 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:12:11pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm afraid we're getting to him. He cussed earlier. I've never seen Buck do that.

Seriously, he's a pleasant man, who will worry an idea to death. I think he's desperately partisan, to the point of sometimes being hilarious, but he's courteous, and he plays his part in our little drama.

He gets over the top with his partisanship, it's sometimes hard to believe he's Canadian. I don't bother him though. I did get ticked when he called me racist for saying Cain was a guy who ran a pizza joint.And I probably did oversimplify that but my broad point that he refused to acknowledge was that Cain has no elected experience and shows himself to not understand how government works.

294 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:12:18pm

re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On the back of USA Today, there is a weather map with a list of cities in America with their weather reports. IIRC there are 109 Cities. Of those? I've think I've been in 95.

I've been in Mission Street in San Francisco and it is the worst place I've ever seen in America.

San Diego is actually pretty, what I saw. I spent a week at the Hotel Del Coronado.

ENVY ME!

It he two scariest places I have been in the USA are Camden, NJ and East St. Louis, IL. Getting lost and asking for directions in those places was creepy.

295 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:12:26pm

re: #288 albusteve

you're a good guy...other's not so much...a bunch of vultures

I don't accept this comment.

296 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:12:46pm

re: #287 windsagio

he likes it.

Buck is one of those guys who pretty clearly thrives off of the hostility and a nice ol' sense of victimhood.

Probably goes to bed each night telling himself how he 'spoke truth to power' (on a blog)

so tell us what Buck likes....fascinating...
clearly you are a very special person with all these keen insights

297 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:13:30pm

re: #291 windsagio

my point is rather that its not fair to the non-whites there.

also to the women.

also to the non-evangelicals.

The numerically dominant Catholic Hispanic population will be surprised to learn of this. As would Anne Richards, of blessed memory.

298 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:13:54pm

I admit that the page Daniel Ballard just put up scares the living daylights out of me.

299 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:14:27pm

re: #294 _RememberTonyC

It he two scariest places I have been in the USA are Camden, NJ and East St. Louis, IL. Getting lost and asking for directions in those places was creepy.

Been to both. Don't remember stepping over multiple hobos like I did on Mission St.

Maybe it helps that Camden is basically deserted.

300 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:14:29pm

re: #295 Sergey Romanov

I don't accept this comment.

okay, sparrows then

301 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:14:41pm

ok, i'm gonna try something new tonight, and attend shabbat at a schul that has a reputation for the best music of any schul in the bay area

i fully expect to be greeted with a drum circle in front of the ark

laters...

302 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:14:55pm

re: #297 Guanxi88

And, looking at the state legislature, they aren't that well represented. And that will continue for some time, with Gerrymandering and all.

303 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:14:58pm

re: #296 albusteve

After a while you seen it all, y'know?

Still, its annoying knowing somebody a thousand miles away has your number, dunnit?

304 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:15:29pm

re: #292 ProLifeLiberal

Actually, the three things that sold this state to me would be three things likeliest to repel most progressives:

1) No income tax;

2) Aggressive use of the death penalty;

3) "Shall issue" for concealed carry of firearms.

I moved here with eyes wide open.

AllI hate is the heat.

305 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:16:30pm

re: #304 Guanxi88

Do you accept that the death penalty must inevitably result in the use of it on someone innocent of the crime they were accused of?

306 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:16:32pm

re: #302 ProLifeLiberal

And, looking at the state legislature, they aren't that well represented. And that will continue for some time, with Gerrymandering and all.

Are you counting names, looking for "Hispanic" names? Got news for you - Tex-Mex are socially conservative. Goes with that whole Roman Catholic thing.

307 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:17:33pm

re: #304 Guanxi88

so

1) Greedy
2) Doesn't give a fuck about justice, but digs revenge fantasies
3) Loves macho Death Wish fantasies.

I suppose I can't blame people for being into their own myth, otherwise they'd come face to face with the fact that they live in Texas.

308 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:17:55pm

re: #304 Guanxi88

And you got a sky-high poverty rate, and massive number of people unable to get health care.

But as long as a pustule like you can have a big house in a gated community, you don't really care, do you.

309 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:18:08pm

re: #305 Obdicut

Do you accept that the death penalty must inevitably result in the use of it on someone innocent of the crime they were accused of?

Inevitably or intentionally? Two different concepts....

Rhetorically, easy to confound, but distinct.

And, frankly, it's a risk we have to take in any human institution.

Better question: Should the willful and unlawful taking of life receive no punishment other than three hot meals a day an medical care until natural causes supervene?

310 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:18:19pm

re: #308 ProLifeLiberal

But as long as a pustule like you can have a big house in a gated community, you don't really care, do you.

Why do you get personal so fucking often?

311 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:19:07pm

re: #309 Guanxi88

I'd actually change inevitably to gleefully. Both Perry and Bush have shown a certain... eagerness to sign execution warrants, as I remember it.

312 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:19:08pm

re: #309 Guanxi88

Inevitably or intentionally? Two different concepts...

Um. Yes. Inevitably. Not intentionally. That's why I said inevitably. Not intentionally.

And, frankly, it's a risk we have to take in any human institution.

So you do accept that innocent people will be put to death, but feel it's worthwhile?

313 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:19:20pm

re: #308 ProLifeLiberal

And you got a sky-high poverty rate, and massive number of people unable to get health care.

But as long as a pustule like you can have a big house in a gated community, you don't really care, do you.

Gated community? I live in the barrio, in downtown brown-town, as they say. We're the only "white" family on the block.

Pustule, though, earns you Python-points.

314 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:19:45pm

re: #313 Guanxi88

Also your girlfriend is black, right?

315 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:19:46pm

re: #310 Obdicut

Why do you get personal so fucking often?

for the same reasons you do, obviously

316 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:20:00pm

re: #310 Obdicut

I found it effective in the past when dealing with people. When people would bash me and my opinions, I would go for the weak spot to make them quiet.

Over time, that became my style of debate. Get personal, while using facts.

317 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:20:39pm

re: #312 Obdicut

Um. Yes. Inevitably. Not intentionally. That's why I said inevitably. Not intentionally.

So you do accept that innocent people will be put to death, but feel it's worthwhile?

Yes, we make such sacrifices. Dresden comes to mind.

And the total number of innocent put to death by gleeful texans is....?

318 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:20:59pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

See now you've gotta be trolling.

319 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:21:01pm

re: #316 ProLifeLiberal

Get personal, while using facts.

But you're wrong, since he doesn't live in a gated community. That wasn't a fact. That was something pulled out of your ass, and it was stupid of you to do.

320 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:21:16pm

re: #314 windsagio

Also your girlfriend is black, right?

No, she's Korean.

My wife's Cajun, if that helps.

321 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:21:53pm

cannibles

322 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:22:07pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

Yes, we make such sacrifices. Dresden comes to mind.

And the total number of innocent put to death by gleeful texans is...?

Holy shit.

You're seriously defending the use of the death penalty by comparing it to the bombing of cities in World War II?

How does that work, in your head? What is the parallel?

323 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:22:24pm

re: #319 Obdicut

But you're wrong, since he doesn't live in a gated community. That wasn't a fact. That was something pulled out of your ass, and it was stupid of you to do.

Dammit! Don't you come to my defense!

324 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:23:05pm

re: #263 Obdicut

I love the hills north of San Francisco and curse the ever-creeping development there, though people gotta have a place to live, so I don't begrudge it. But the spaces of my childhood slowly get paved over.

I used to work at a school out in Richmond. Coworker told me that his dad used to go there, and would go bird-hunting in the marshes going down to the Bay after school.

The marshes are now single-family dwellings.

325 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:23:10pm

re: #322 Obdicut

sometimes you've gotta break a few eggs, I guess.

326 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:23:41pm

re: #317 Guanxi88

Yes, we make such sacrifices.

How long before Chthulhu finally arrives, then? Fucking humanity deserves to be devoured.
/

327 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:24:20pm

re: #322 Obdicut

Holy shit.

You're seriously defending the use of the death penalty by comparing it to the bombing of cities in World War II?

How does that work, in your head? What is the parallel?

Not in terms of total numbers, no. But in terms of occasionally, and unintentionally, causing the loss of life.... well, it happens.

But how many innocents have been slain by we bloodthirsty lone star types? name two in the past 50 years, and I'll owe you a beer.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:24:32pm

re: #266 Guanxi88

Enjoy your cold, dark superiority. No oil or natural gas for you.

I thought that if we'd just get over our NIMBYism and drill off the coast of California again, we'd be rich in oil beyond the dreams of avarice. Was I misinformed?

329 Linden Arden  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:24:35pm

Against better instinct I am watching Fox Fake News.

How can Kimberly Guilfoyle (sp?) be so hot and so stupid at the same time? I suspect she is paid well to do both.

330 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:24:48pm

re: #319 Obdicut

Well, most Conservatives I have met aren't the enlightened type on race. So, I decided to go with an attack that seemed plausible.

He is still a little greedy pustule though.

331 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:25:34pm

Whenever a person uses personal attacks, the debate is no longer a debate, but an argument. Whatever point you are trying to articulate, right or wrong, will be tuned out, and you loose credibility. Facts can stand alone without being nasty.

332 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:25:40pm

re: #330 ProLifeLiberal

Well, most Conservatives I have met aren't the enlightened type on race. So, I decided to go with an attack that seemed plausible.

He is still a little greedy pustule though.

I'll dispute the former, and chuckle and nod with the latter.

333 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:26:04pm

re: #330 ProLifeLiberal

also people never ever lie about their relationships/living arrangements to try to defuse accusations of prejudice.

I don't know which republicans have more of, black friends or gay friends.

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:26:15pm

re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

On the back of USA Today, there is a weather map with a list of cities in America with their weather reports. IIRC there are 109 Cities. Of those? I've think I've been in 95.

I've been in Mission Street in San Francisco and it is the worst place I've ever seen in America.

San Diego is actually pretty, what I saw. I spent a week at the Hotel Del Coronado.

ENVY ME!

You don't like Mission Street? What's wrong with Mission Street?

OK, it's filthy, and some very bizarre people hang out there, but the burritos make up for it.

335 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:26:46pm

re: #333 windsagio

also people never ever lie about their relationships/living arrangements to try to defuse accusations of prejudice.

I don't know which republicans have more of, black friends or gay friends.

That's easy - blacks. They're a larger percentage of the population.

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:26:59pm

re: #327 Guanxi88

Not in terms of total numbers, no. But in terms of occasionally, and unintentionally, causing the loss of life... well, it happens.

You're OK with a state killing innocent people in non-war situations? Wow.

337 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:27:48pm

re: #335 Guanxi88

see that's what kills me. You obviously have a reasonable sense of humor to you when you want to, why do you have to be so goddamn nuts about things?

338 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:27:48pm

re: #333 windsagio

They're all Israel's biggest friends.

339 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:27:49pm

re: #336 Sergey Romanov

You're OK with a state killing innocent people in non-war situations? Wow.

Following conviction under the law, and a trial by a jury of their peers, and the exhaustion of all appeals, yes, I'm quite all right with it.

340 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:28:00pm

re: #325 windsagio

sometimes you've gotta break a few eggs, I guess.

Or have a few nuts:

Veterans of Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison’s unsuccessful 2010 primary challenge to Perry recalled being stunned at the way attacks bounced off the governor in a strongly conservative state gripped by tea party fever. Multiple former Hutchison advisers recalled asking a focus group about the charge that Perry may have presided over the execution of an innocent man – Cameron Todd Willingham – and got this response from a primary voter: “It takes balls to execute an innocent man.”

341 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:28:03pm

re: #284 albusteve

and he deserves as much respect as any other poster, yet gets hammered with rude crap that I wouldn't tolerate

He deserves as much respect, but his nonsensical repetitions of talking points, over and over again, don't. I don't mind a man being a Republicans fan, but this is ridiculous.

342 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:28:38pm

re: #327 Guanxi88

Not in terms of total numbers, no. But in terms of occasionally, and unintentionally, causing the loss of life... well, it happens.

That's monstrous.

343 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:28:38pm

re: #338 Sergey Romanov

no that parts true, they need the temple built in order for the rapture to happen.

344 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:29:06pm

re: #339 Guanxi88

Following conviction under the law, and a trial by a jury of their peers, and the exhaustion of all appeals, yes, I'm quite all right with it.

OK, hope you get a taste of your medicine some day.

345 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:29:24pm

re: #337 windsagio

see that's what kills me. You obviously have a reasonable sense of humor to you when you want to, why do you have to be so goddamn nuts about things?

Just having fun.... sweet Lord! Is everyone a literalist in here?

346 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:30:07pm

If you know the death penalty is going to cause the loss of innocent life, and you know that you don't have to use the death penalty, why on earth would you condone its use? Just so the punishment for murder can be death? How does that make the briefest bit of sense?

Shouldn't, therefore, those executing the innocent person be put to death as well?

347 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:30:19pm

re: #344 Sergey Romanov

OK, hope you get a taste of your medicine some day.

I have the greatest of confidence in the legal system. What causes you to doubt it?

348 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:30:50pm

re: #345 Guanxi88

that excuse is kind of a dry socket tho'.

Either you don't believe anything you're saying and are just trolling the fuck out of the thread (which is what you just said) or you do believe it and... I don't know what happens then

349 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:30:53pm

re: #342 Obdicut

That's monstrous.

That's conservatism.

350 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:31:25pm
I have the greatest of confidence in the legal system. What causes you to doubt it?

LOL.

351 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:31:34pm

re: #347 Guanxi88

I have the greatest of confidence in the legal system. What causes you to doubt it?

Cases like this:

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

352 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:31:47pm

re: #346 Obdicut

it isn't even about 'condoning its use'.

He said the fact that they aggressively pursue it is a positive quality.

Its on a whole 'nother level.

353 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:31:58pm

re: #346 Obdicut

If you know the death penalty is going to cause the loss of innocent life, and you know that you don't have to use the death penalty, why on earth would you condone its use? Just so the punishment for murder can be death? How does that make the briefest bit of sense?

Shouldn't, therefore, those executing the innocent person be put to death as well?

No, because an executioner is enacting a sentence imposed by a duly and properly constituted court. Unless you mean to suggest that soldiers are similarly exposed to such hazards?

354 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:33:25pm

At some point social conservatism just degenerates into joyful cannibalism.

355 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:34:11pm

re: #354 Sergey Romanov

At some point social conservatism just degenerates into joyful cannibalism.

you so had me at 'joyful cannibalism'

356 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:34:12pm

re: #341 SanFranciscoZionist

He deserves as much respect, but his nonsensical repetitions of talking points, over and over again, don't. I don't mind a man being a Republicans fan, but this is ridiculous.

scroll by then...it's not cool to trash people that you disagree with...standard fare here now...ignore the guy, rather than beat in him to feed your ego

357 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:34:25pm

re: #352 windsagio

it isn't even about 'condoning its use'.

He said the fact that they aggressively pursue it is a positive quality.

Its on a whole 'nother level.

My blood ain't cheap; no one's is. If you, God forbid, should be murdered here, Texas will certainly seek death for your killer; innocent life is too precious to be lost without a price being paid.

358 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:34:27pm

re: #353 Guanxi88

No, because an executioner is enacting a sentence imposed by a duly and properly constituted court. Unless you mean to suggest that soldiers are similarly exposed to such hazards?

Why do you keep bringing in the analogy of war? Why do you think that's relevant? Do you think you could defend the police shelling an apartment complex with the excuse of "Well, there was a murderer there, so it's justified"?

359 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:35:10pm

re: #357 Guanxi88

innocent life is too precious to be lost without a price being paid.

Except, of course, if it's the state doing the shedding of the innocent blood, to which your response is 'it happens'.

And you, I'm sure, don't find anything inconsistent in your views at all.

360 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:35:14pm
innocent life is too precious to be lost without a price being paid.

LOL.

361 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:35:56pm

re: #359 Obdicut

Better 10 innocent men hang than 1 guilty man go free...

362 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:36:28pm

re: #351 Obdicut

Cases like this:

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

so Texans should hate Texas and move elsewhere?...what's your point?...CA sucks, NY sucks...everywhere sucks sooner or later...you need to get off the net and get out more

363 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:36:40pm

re: #327 Guanxi88

Not in terms of total numbers, no. But in terms of occasionally, and unintentionally, causing the loss of life... well, it happens.

But how many innocents have been slain by we bloodthirsty lone star types? name two in the past 50 years, and I'll owe you a beer.

Here's one: James Byrd, Jr.

364 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:36:52pm

re: #361 windsagio

Better 10 innocent men hang than 1 guilty man go free...

It's not even go free, that's the kicker. It's better innocent men die than guilty men remain locked in prison for the rest of their lives, rather than being killed.

365 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:37:15pm

re: #362 albusteve

so Texans should hate Texas and move elsewhere?

How did you derive that?

366 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:37:17pm

re: #356 albusteve

scroll by then...it's not cool to trash people that you disagree with...standard fare here now...ignore the guy, rather than beat in him to feed your ego

Oh, please, he's not being trashed. He posts obviously bullshit talking points and gets called on it. Facts are presented to him and he doubles down on the bullshit. He rarely ever discusses any posts posted to him, he just reposts the same bull.

367 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:37:55pm

re: #364 Obdicut

Its a bad scene when hyperbole literally doesn't go far enough >>

368 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:38:10pm

re: #364 Obdicut

It's not even go free, that's the kicker. It's better innocent men die than guilty men remain locked in prison for the rest of their lives, rather than being killed.

And they're pro-life too. It's the liberals who have culture of death.

369 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:38:20pm

re: #358 Obdicut

Why do you keep bringing in the analogy of war? Why do you think that's relevant? Do you think you could defend the police shelling an apartment complex with the excuse of "Well, there was a murderer there, so it's justified"?

Is this a literal shelling, with actual artillery?

All kidding aside, the maintenance of law and order within a region is gthe internal analogue of the defense of the nation-state beyond its borders. In both cases, it is the distinction between the permissible and the inpermissible, the friend and the enemy.

You see, the element of crime, especially homicide, destroys the internal cohesion of the state by attacking the state at its most fundamental unit - the individual. Given that the individual may be required to give his or her life for the defense of the commonweal, it is not unreasonable to expect, as a term of such a theoretical sacrifice, that the state be willing to exact a similar price in the event of that individual's loss through the malicious act of another.

370 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:38:38pm

re: #357 Guanxi88

Hi. You sure know how to get a thread rolling...
:)

371 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:38:40pm

Steve's just mad that everybody's arguing with Guanxi, not him.

372 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:38:58pm

re: #366 Varek Raith

Oh, please, he's not being trashed. He posts obviously bullshit talking points and gets called on it. Facts are presented to him and he doubles down on the bullshit. He rarely ever discusses any posts posted to him, he just reposts the same bull.

so what?...is that a reason to condone rudeness?....rise above it

373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:39:26pm

re: #335 Guanxi88

That's easy - blacks. They're a larger percentage of the population.

Oh brother.

You know only dumb cons fall for that old gag, right?

Christ knows how many dumb bigots on the internet yap about their black best friends and gay best friends, and they're talking about me e_e

374 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:39:39pm

re: #363 Stanley Sea

Here's one: James Byrd, Jr.

I think, and the context would certainly bear me out on this, the point was about executions under color of law.

375 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:40:22pm

re: #370 OhNoZombies!

Hi. You sure know how to get a thread rolling...
:)

I do what I can. Get paid by the down-ding, you know.

376 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:40:26pm

re: #371 windsagio

Steve's just mad that everybody's arguing with Guanxi, not him.

I love it when you express your stupidity...lol

377 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:40:49pm

re: #372 albusteve

so what?...is that a reason to condone rudeness?...rise above it

There comes a point where I have no qualms getting rude with those who consistently post bullshit lies.
Especially at people who deserve it.
If I get it in return, so be it.

378 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:41:32pm

re: #375 Guanxi88

I do what I can. Get paid by the down-ding, you know.

these bone heads expect you to be concerned with their dings

379 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:41:59pm

re: #364 Obdicut

It's not even go free, that's the kicker. It's better innocent men die than guilty men remain locked in prison for the rest of their lives, rather than being killed.

Or better still, better that the guilty should be fed and housed all the days of their lives, lived prolonged at the expense of the society they have preyed upon and attacked. hell of a social contract.

380 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:42:02pm

re: #376 albusteve

381 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:42:05pm

re: #376 albusteve

Impressive.

382 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:42:29pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

There comes a point where I have no qualms getting rude with those who consistently post bullshit lies.
Especially at people who deserve it.
If I get it in return, so be it.

so be it...we are all less better for it tho

383 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:42:52pm

re: #369 Guanxi88

You dodged the question.

You're attempting to justify the loss of innocent life in the pursuit of the death penalty by comparing it to the bombing of cities-- enemy cities-- in wartime. You have not in any way supported this analogy. You are comparing things that are fundamentally different in the following ways:

1. In wartime, we bomb the cities of enemies, or that are occupied by our enemies. In modern warfare, we do not engage in attacks on civilian centers unless we are attacking military targets. The terror raids of WWII would not be allowed by the US today.

2. Warfare and the internal polciing of a state are not analogous. You asserted it; I am asking for a proof of that analogy. Can you provide one? Are you saying that the state is in a constant condition of war against murderers?

3. If you are asserting that, then why wouldn't shelling a building where a murder is allowed? If you're making the analogy to war, how does a trial fit in? What is the analogy to a trial in wartime?

There is no analogous relationship between war and the law. Any attempt to use it fails into obvious fallacies out of the gate, as you have done here.

384 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:42:59pm

re: #382 albusteve

so be it...we are all less better for it tho

Perhaps.
Usually I stay cool. Maybe I should work more on it.

385 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:43:33pm

re: #341 SanFranciscoZionist

He deserves as much respect, but his nonsensical repetitions of talking points, over and over again, don't. I don't mind a man being a Republicans fan, but this is ridiculous.

More in response to Steve but your comment was more accesible...

Buck is the ultimate situationalist racist/hater.

Any one of his opinions does not apply to the others. He's basically horrible with hate.

386 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:43:46pm

re: #379 Guanxi88

Or better still, better that the guilty should be fed and housed all the days of their lives, lived prolonged at the expense of the society they have preyed upon and attacked. hell of a social contract.

Yes. And you believe it's better for innocent people to die than for that to happen.

And that is monstrous.

387 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:44:44pm

re: #379 Guanxi88

Or better still, better that the guilty should be fed and housed all the days of their lives, lived prolonged at the expense of the society they have preyed upon and attacked. hell of a social contract.

So how much money is an innocent life worth

Because that's what it boils down to, cash

388 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:45:02pm

re: #247 Guanxi88

You'd be lost without us.

America would be lost without TX? That's fucking hilarious.

Is it because everything is bigger and better in TX? Like Rick Perry? Or your rate of medically uninsured? Rate of poverty? Infant mortality? Influence of the far religious right?

Yeah, we'd really be screwed without you guys.//////////What a fucking joke.

389 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:45:17pm

re: #383 Obdicut

On point one, I would like to expand. What happened to German Cities, to me looks like revenge bombings for what happened in places like London, Belfast, Coventry, and so many others.

The largest and most devastating case of revenge.

390 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:45:28pm

re: #384 Varek Raith

Perhaps.
Usually I stay cool. Maybe I should work more on it.

your ego is in check....
I cannot say the same for others

391 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:45:56pm

re: #386 Obdicut

Yes. And you believe it's better for innocent people to die than for that to happen.

And that is monstrous.

At some point there is no reason to argue further because moral assumptions are so different, and at that point arguing about morality is like arguing about tastes...

392 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:46:01pm

re: #389 ProLifeLiberal

That can be debated at length. I'd say it wasn't revenge, but it was a deliberate terror tactic to 'break the will' of the German people, and it is not something the American military would engage in today.

393 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:46:07pm

re: #247 Guanxi88

You'd be lost without us.

You'd be more Mexican without us :D

394 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:46:51pm

re: #388 palomino

America would be lost without TX? That's fucking hilarious.

Is it because everything is bigger and better in TX? Like Rick Perry? Or your rate of medically uninsured? Rate of poverty? Infant mortality? Influence of the far religious right?

Yeah, we'd really be screwed without you guys.///What a fucking joke.

no, it's because it's the home of the Dallas Cowboys

395 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:46:53pm

re: #392 Obdicut

I think that's what the British Government said to get the US to go along with it.

396 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:47:38pm

re: #395 ProLifeLiberal

I think that's what the British Government said to get the US to go along with it.

Huh? The US didn't have any trouble using similar tactics against Japan.

397 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:47:45pm

re: #257 albusteve

well that says alot...hating other states for some stupid reason is now a LGF pastime...always wondered how that works

It's an American pastime. Shit, we fought a war over it 150 years ago, and in many ways never got over this tribal hatred of other states. The idea that we couldn't get along without one state or another (even TX and CA) is just egotistical blather.

398 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:47:48pm

re: #339 Guanxi88

Following conviction under the law, and a trial by a jury of their peers, and the exhaustion of all appeals, yes, I'm quite all right with it.

And this returns us to what I consider a classic division.

Is it better to allow the guilty to escape punishment lest innocents be killed, or to accept the occasional innocent death so that no guilty escape justice?

The entire death penalty argument comes down to those two irreconcilable options.

Is it ok to sometimes kill the innocent, or is it ok if sometimes the guilty escape punishment?

399 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:47:49pm

re: #392 Obdicut

That just goes to show that there really were no good guys in that war, which doesn't mean there weren't the worst.

400 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:47:54pm

re: #394 albusteve

no, it's because it's the home of the Dallas Cowboys

The Dolphins are AWESOME this season.
/

401 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:47:57pm

re: #374 Guanxi88

I think, and the context would certainly bear me out on this, the point was about executions under color of law.

Got that after the post. Oh well I'm a fast reactor.

402 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:48:11pm

re: #388 palomino

America would be lost without TX? That's fucking hilarious.

Nate Silver would appear to agree with you ;)

403 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:48:26pm

re: #387 WindUpBird

like I said, I think its more a combination of revenge fantasy and that authoritarian unwilling to think our legal system is fallible.

Its the first cousin of 'well they must've been doing something or the police wouldn't have been after them!'

404 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:48:44pm

re: #174 Obdicut

Why?

I used to hang with a bunch of German and Austrian dudes from the SAP office in Palo Alto. Nice guys. SAP products are fun, because if you get them to crash hard enough, they give debug asserts in German.

I work with SAP. Currently working with security where the security profile names descriptions were originally done in Portuguese, with descriptions now translated to English, and soon will have both Spanish and -back to German- descriptions added. Good thing that SAP does try to facilitate multi-language usage in the same clients and instances.

405 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:48:55pm

re: #398 kirkspencer

But the guilty do not escape punishment in that context. False dichotomy.

406 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:49:23pm

re: #397 palomino

It's an American pastime. Shit, we fought a war over it 150 years ago, and in many ways never got over this tribal hatred of other states. The idea that we couldn't get along without one state or another (even TX and CA) is just egotistical blather.

LOL!...
imagine what they say about poor NM...good fun

407 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:49:33pm

re: #393 WindUpBird

The funny thing about Texas is that it was specifically founded to extend the power of slavery. The power structure is still largely the same people.

408 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:49:34pm

re: #373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Christ knows how many dumb bigots on the internet yap about their black best friends and gay best friends, and they're talking about me e_e

Are you my gay black friend? Is that you, Marcus?re: #383 Obdicut

You say I dodged, I say you missed, the point.

The state of war exists, internally and externally, in all states. Measures wholly suited to another time and place have resulted in the deaths of those not directly implicated in the actions the end of which was sought by the use of lethal violence. (Dresden). Given that standards have changed, and that some who participated in the raid may yet be alive, and that murder has not statute of limitations, why do you not advocate charges be brought against them?

Answer: Their actions were appropriate, lawful, and necessary. They used the minimum of force necessary to achieve their objectives, and did not intentionally seek the deaths of innocents.

Police obtain evidence of guilt, a prosecutor presents it to a jury, duly empaneled, and a judge oversees the case. A conviction follows, with the sentence set at death. The condemned is executed, but subsequent evidence shows him to have not commited the crime. Which officer, prosecutor, judge, or juror, then, is culpable? Whom should we punish in such a case?

You demand a standard of perfection unattainable in human institutions, and therefore, you are content with a punishment that is, at worst, confinement until such time as the convict shall have aged or gained a sufficient number of sympathetic NPR types to petition for his release.

409 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:49:34pm

re: #399 Sergey Romanov

That just goes to show that there really were no good guys in that war, which doesn't mean there weren't the worst.

One of the reasons I greatly respect Chuck Yeager is that he flatly stated that he committed what he considered war crimes-- that he went on missions with a brief to hit anything that moved, and that he did it. He didn't like it, he doesn't make any excuses for having done it. I'd like him better if he'd refused, but, having done it, I'm glad he was honest about it and that he called them war crimes.

410 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:50:32pm

re: #400 Varek Raith

The Dolphins are AWESOME this season.
/

reverse AWSOME!

411 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:51:21pm

re: #384 Varek Raith

Perhaps.
Usually I stay cool. Maybe I should work more on it.

Uh no.

412 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:51:32pm

re: #396 Obdicut

Keep in mind though one thing:

1: We were real racist towards to Japanese at the time. The Wartime Strips by Seuss are cringe worthy. We might have been more willing to do such actions against them, because we had a significantly lower view of their humanity.

413 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:51:35pm

re: #401 Stanley Sea

Got that after the post. Oh well I'm a fast reactor.

Goes with the territory and neurology. I know and like you well enough not to hold anything against you.

414 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:51:46pm

re: #407 windsagio

The funny thing about Texas is that it was specifically founded to extend the power of slavery. The power structure is still largely the same people.

links please....I like the 'specific' part
we need a history lesson

415 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:51:57pm

re: #408 Guanxi88

The state of war exists, internally and externally, in all states.

No, it doesn't. Can you explain this incredibly bizarre assertion?

You demand a standard of perfection unattainable in human institutions, and therefore, you are content with a punishment that is, at worst, confinement until such time as the convict shall have aged or gained a sufficient number of sympathetic NPR types to petition for his release.

Yes. And your'e unwilling to accept that, and so you'd rather have innocent people die than have life imprisonment be the punishment for murder. Our positions are clear. I'd rather that murderers simply be locked up for the rest of their lives, because using the death penalty inevitably means innocent people will die.

I'll just ignore the moronic "sympathetic NPR types" idiocy.

416 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:52:04pm

re: #266 Guanxi88

Enjoy your cold, dark superiority. No oil or natural gas for you.

Really? So your new Nation of Texas would refuse to do business with the country it was once part of? The remaining US would just buy the oil from you, same as we do with a lot of places much worse than Texas.

Your fantasy of TX holding the rest of America hostage over oil is bizarre and delusional (as in delusions of the superior grandeur of Texas...it's just another state, get over it).

417 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:52:34pm

re: #412 ProLifeLiberal

Keep in mind though thing:

1: We were real racist towards to Japanese at the time. The Wartime Strips by Seuss are cringe worthy. We might have been more willing to do such actions against them, because we had a significantly lower view of their humanity.

We had to, though. You understand that to willingly kill another, you cannot view him as your equal and brother. It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

418 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:52:45pm

re: #416 palomino

Oil is fungible, so it wouldn't matter if they didn't sell it to us, anyway.

419 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:53:21pm

re: #417 Guanxi88

We had to, though. You understand that to willingly kill another, you cannot view him as your equal and brother. It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

The Civil War stands in grief-stricken counterpoise to that completely false assertion.

420 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:53:24pm

No single state can survive independent of the US.
;)

421 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:53:34pm

re: #409 Obdicut

Dunno why war criminals are worthy of respect.

422 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:54:09pm

re: #417 Guanxi88

We had to, though. You understand that to willingly kill another, you cannot view him as your equal and brother. It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

I don't know. The Germans weren't dehumanized as much as the Japanese were during the war.

423 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:54:34pm

Nobody would be lost without oregon, however

we have good beer, and nice weather, oh and rent's cheap and we have hippie bar craft nights and our elected representatives tend not to say stupid racist shit. Whee!

424 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:54:44pm

re: #415 Obdicut

So, just so we're clear:

1) Death penalty's bad, mmkay?

2) You cannot name two innocent people put to death in the past 50 years in Texas, but you're sure it's just not worth the risk;

3) NPR types do not, in fact, support Mumia abu-Jamaal, or whatever the hell the Philly cop-killer calls himself.

425 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:55:39pm

re: #417 Guanxi88

True to a point. However, that is just a sign of how depraved that war got.

Let's not forget that the US was the nation that made so many "Innovations" with Total War.

Both during the Civil War and World War II.

Suffice to say, Total War is something is not wanted considering improvements with Technology since World War II. Even then, it was a very dark grey morally.

426 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:55:49pm

re: #419 Obdicut

The Civil War stands in grief-stricken counterpoise to that completely false assertion.

re: #419 Obdicut

The Civil War stands in grief-stricken counterpoise to that completely false assertion.

cockroaches

427 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:56:10pm

Lost without Virginia *cough* I mean we only gave the rest of you the fathers of the country, declaration of independence, and constitution. Just razzing. I don't feel any superiority over being a Virginian but I do admire Washington, Jefferson, and Madison obviously.

428 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:56:26pm

re: #421 Sergey Romanov

Dunno why war criminals are worthy of respect.

Just as there aren't any good guys in World War II, but there are worse ones, I prefer an honest war criminal to a dishonest one.

He was also a terrorist with the maquis.

I'm uncertain whether you feel the mass city bombings were or were not a war crime, though-- now I feel like we're back at Axis History Forums.

429 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:56:37pm

re: #394 albusteve

no, it's because it's the home of the Dallas Cowboys

I think we've been over this before. I'm a born and bred Houstonian. Growing up the Cowboys were even more hated in Houston than the damn Yankees from up north. I'm honor bound to hate them, especially as long as that maniac Steinbrenner wannabe Jerry Jones is in charge. Can't be forgiven for running Jimmie Johnson out, or any of his other bonehead moves as owner.

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:56:37pm

re: #408 Guanxi88

Are you my gay black friend?

Unlikely.

Until someone asks you how you know so much about the Negroes. e_e

431 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:56:37pm

re: #405 Sergey Romanov

But the guilty do not escape punishment in that context. False dichotomy.

No. Read it again, the dichotomy exists.

If in doubt:
let go. (some guilty might escape punishment.)
punish. (Some innocents might be executed.)

432 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:56:47pm

re: #394 albusteve

no, it's because it's the home of the Dallas Cowboys

Not applicable this year. In the future? maybe, get a QB.

433 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:57:01pm

re: #427 HappyWarrior

Lost without Virginia *cough* I mean we only gave the rest of you the fathers of the country, declaration of independence, and constitution. Just razzing. I don't feel any superiority over being a Virginian but I do admire Washington, Jefferson, and Madison obviously.

I just wish the rest of the state would chill on the NoVa hate.
:P

434 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:57:03pm

re: #423 WindUpBird

Nobody would be lost without oregon, however

we have good beer, and nice weather, oh and rent's cheap and we have hippie bar craft nights and our elected representatives tend not to say stupid racist shit. Whee!

maybe the Chinese will buy you as a novelty...a pet, like a monkey

435 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:57:06pm

re: #424 Guanxi88

So, just so we're clear:

2) You cannot name two innocent people put to death in the past 50 years in Texas, but you're sure it's just not worth the risk;

Oh hai. Snuff up this:

In Texas, the following people were found innocent AFTER execution. Texas still executes prisoners.

Frank Basil McFarland was executed for a rape/murder despite multiple inconsistencies in the state’s case, altered evidence, purchased and coerced testimony, and suppressed evidence of guilt. After execution, he was found innocent by DNA testing.

Troy Farris was convicted of the murder of a police officer. DNA proved he was innocent. Gov. George W Bush deny clemency. Troy Farris was execcuted.

Jerry Lee Hogue was convicted of an arson/murder. Another individual later admited to the crime, but was denied further investigation by Gov. Bush. Mr Hogue was execcuted.

David Stoker was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of three witnesses, who later recanted their testimony. Doubts aside, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Stoker.

Richard Wayne Jones, was convicted of a murder despite strong evidence that his sister’s boyfriend had committed it. DNA testing was denied by Gov. Bush, and approved his execution.

Willie Williams and Joseph Nichols both shot at their murder victim, but only one hit him. In order to execute both, Texas argued that each had killed the man; in one trial, the state argued that Mr. Williams had shot the victim and Mr. Nichols had missed, and in the next trial, the state argued that Mr. Nichols had shot the victim and Mr. Williams had missed. Both were convicted of capital murder. Mr. Williams was executed by Gov. Bush; Mr. Nichols is still on death row.

James Lee Beathard was convicted of capital murder based on the testimony of the admitted murderer, Gene Hathorn. Still, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Beathard, though he was innocent.

Gary Graham was convicted of capital murder on the basis of one eyewitness’s testimony. Despite DNA evidence that proves otherwise, Mr. Graham was executed by Gov. Bush.

David Wayne Spence was convicted of capital murder although no physical evidence linked him to the crime and almost every witness against him admitted that his or her testimony had been purchased or coerced. DNA evidence says that another man had committed the triple murder. Nevertheless, Gov. Bush executed Mr. Spence.

436 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:57:31pm

re: #419 Obdicut

The Civil War stands in grief-stricken counterpoise to that completely false assertion.

Sigh! How utterly futile to argue the point.

So, what you mean, then, is that the dehumanization of the japanese was done for giggles? The War Department did it because they were chock-a-block with bigots?

Think..... why would they need to dehumanize human beings they were trying to get other human beings to kill. Think really hard about it.....

437 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:57:58pm

re: #407 windsagio

The funny thing about Texas is that it was specifically founded to extend the power of slavery. The power structure is still largely the same people.

Man, we need more people in power like Tom Delay

because that guy was a real American

438 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:58:11pm

re: #433 Varek Raith

I just wish the rest of the state would chill on the NoVa hate.
:P

I get a kick out of that honestly since we're a large part of why this state is you know successful.

439 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:58:19pm

re: #429 palomino

I think we've been over this before. I'm a born and bred Houstonian. Growing up the Cowboys were even more hated in Houston than the damn Yankees from up north. I'm honor bound to hate them, especially as long as that maniac Steinbrenner wannabe Jerry Jones is in charge. Can't be forgiven for running Jimmie Johnson out, or any of his other bonehead moves as owner.

a true fan...to hell with reality

440 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:58:28pm

re: #424 Guanxi88

So, just so we're clear:

1) Death penalty's bad, mmkay?

Yes.

2) You cannot name two innocent people put to death in the past 50 years in Texas, but you're sure it's just not worth the risk;

Ridiculous, facile argument. if you don't acknowledge that the use of the death penalty inevitably leads to the execution of the innocent, say so. Otherwise, it doesn't mater in the least whether a particular example can be produced.

NPR types do not, in fact, support Mumia abu-Jamaal, or whatever the hell the Philly cop-killer calls himself.

I'm an NPR type, and I don't. So yeah, you're wrong in your caricature of liberals, as usual. Doesn't ever seem to bother you.

441 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:58:36pm

re: #434 albusteve

maybe the Chinese will buy you as a novelty...a pet, like a monkey

We'd probably be snapped up by the Russians first, we have the best Russian butcher shop down the street

442 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:58:45pm

re: #431 kirkspencer

No. Read it again, the dichotomy exists.

If in doubt:
let go. (some guilty might escape punishment.)
punish. (Some innocents might be executed.)

Uh, punishment is not limited to execution.

443 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:59:02pm

re: #408 Guanxi88

The state of war exists, internally and externally, in all states.

/eyeroll

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:59:25pm

re: #427 HappyWarrior

Lost without Virginia *cough* I mean we only gave the rest of you the fathers of the country, declaration of independence, and constitution. Just razzing. I don't feel any superiority over being a Virginian but I do admire Washington, Jefferson, and Madison obviously.

We totally gave the world the band Everclear


you're welcome

445 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 6:59:37pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

Sigh! How utterly futile to argue the point.

So, what you mean, then, is that the dehumanization of the japanese was done for giggles? The War Department did it because they were chock-a-block with bigots?

Think... why would they need to dehumanize human beings they were trying to get other human beings to kill. Think really hard about it...

It made it easier to kill them. It was not necessary, which is what you stated. You are wrong.

446 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:00:08pm

re: #440 Obdicut

I'm an NPR type, and I don't. So yeah, you're wrong in your caricature of liberals, as usual. Doesn't ever seem to bother you.

Some of my best friends are NPR types. //

447 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:00:32pm

re: #435 publicityStunted

I like you. Give us a source that does not have an agenda that it tries to carry forward so clumsily, and we'll talk.

448 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:00:33pm

re: #441 WindUpBird

We'd probably be snapped up by the Russians first, we have the best Russian butcher shop down the street

sure....
neoCommieville of Outer Portlandia...a truck stop

449 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:01:26pm

re: #448 albusteve

sure...
neoCommieville of Outer Portlandia...a truck stop

The truck stop is in Troutdale! I'm in SE :D

450 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:01:42pm

re: #445 Obdicut

It made it easier to kill them. It was not necessary, which is what you stated. You are wrong.

So, it was not necessary to make the killing of the enemy easier for our men? Why was it not necessary? Do you think killing would be easy? I imagine it would be very difficult.

451 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:01:49pm

Steve, the slavery thing comes from Battle Cry of Freedom, which is probably the best book written on the Antebellum period and the US Civil War.

By all means I suggest you read it, its an excellent read and will teach you a LOT.

452 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:02:01pm

Evening lizards. How's is going?

453 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:02:23pm

re: #443 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

/eyeroll

Roll your eyes at Hobbes, not at me.

454 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:02:32pm

re: #449 WindUpBird

The truck stop is in Troutdale! I'm in SE :D

I jest

455 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:02:49pm

re: #450 Guanxi88

So, it was not necessary to make the killing of the enemy easier for our men? Why was it not necessary? Do you think killing would be easy? I imagine it would be very difficult.

Again, this is what you said:

We had to, though. You understand that to willingly kill another, you cannot view him as your equal and brother. It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

You're now attempting to reinterpret that indefensible position.

456 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:03:02pm

re: #417 Guanxi88

We had to, though. You understand that to willingly kill another, you cannot view him as your equal and brother. It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

re: #417 Guanxi88

We had to, though. You understand that to willingly kill another, you cannot view him as your equal and brother. It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

And THATS the fail of our "humanity"

457 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:03:11pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

So, what you mean, then, is that the dehumanization of the japanese was done for giggles? The War Department did it because they were chock-a-block with bigots?

It wasn't just the Japanese in Japan, or the War Department.

I just returned some repros of original Office of War Relocation guidelines for treatment of Japanese citizens while internment.

It was very generous, I suppose, for the gov to let them have churches. But they could only be presided over by Caucasians (the doc's term, not mine.)

Like those armies they were permitted to fight in while their relatives were behind barbed wire. Swell.

458 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:03:11pm

Now racism is being pushed as necessary. Oh boy.

459 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:03:11pm

re: #407 windsagio

The funny thing about Texas is that it was specifically founded to extend the power of slavery. The power structure is still largely the same people.

How can you say such a thing? There's not a racist bone in the whole TX legislature. Oops, I spoke too soon, this just in.

460 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:03:19pm

re: #451 windsagio

Steve, the slavery thing comes from Battle Cry of Freedom, which is probably the best book written on the Antebellum period and the US Civil War.

By all means I suggest you read it, its an excellent read and will teach you a LOT.

can you read?....wow

461 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:03:49pm

re: #455 Obdicut

Again, this is what you said:

You're now attempting to reinterpret that indefensible position.

So, then, you hold it is possible to willingly kill one whom you view as your equal and brother? I could never do that.

Cold indeed is the heart in your breast.

462 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:04:21pm

re: #444 WindUpBird

You're not allowed to say 'we' unless you're talking about Green River, you carpetbagger.

463 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:04:27pm

re: #458 Sergey Romanov

Now racism is being pushed as necessary. Oh boy.

Apparently none of the soldiers in the Civil War ever willingly shot each other. It was all terribly unwilling. Somehow.

464 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:05:10pm

re: #456 Stanley Sea

re: #417 Guanxi88

And THATS the fail of our "humanity"

it's our simian heritage.
having tried everything else, we might, as a last resort, try to face the truth.

465 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:05:14pm

re: #460 albusteve

can you read?...wow

c'mon steve, if yer gonna try to troll you can do better than that.

466 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:05:38pm

re: #453 Guanxi88

Roll your eyes at Hobbes, not at me.

How about I roll my eyes at both, with or without your permission.

467 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:06:11pm

re: #462 windsagio

You're not allowed to say 'we' unless you're talking about Green River, you carpetbagger.

after that incident, Oregonians should have fled town like a flushed toilet...the fact that you didn't makes you as guilty as the killer...LGF logic

468 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:06:18pm

Heavy posting tonight. Who's winning the fight?

469 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:06:51pm

re: #463 Obdicut

Apparently none of the soldiers in the Civil War ever willingly shot each other. It was all terribly unwilling. Somehow.

Given the significant number of muskets recovered from battlefields showing multiple unfired charges (soldiers pretending to load, aim, and fire) and the surprisingly light casualties in most engagements), yes, most men were unwilling to kill.

Sugest you look into the USMC studies on the subject. Most normal people cannot stomach the thought of killing another person.

470 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:07:23pm

re: #461 Guanxi88

So, then, you hold it is possible to willingly kill one whom you view as your equal and brother? I could never do that.

Cold indeed is the heart in your breast.

Wow. You choose this moment to get personal. That's sad.

I view all humans as my equal and my brother. And I would take up arms and defend my country against them, even feeling that, and yes, I'd sight, and shoot, another person.

My friend Ben Al-Gurion, ex of the US army, talked to me at length about the sense of connection you feel as a sniper with your target when you see the whites of their eyes. They're unaware, often going about their routine in camp, or looking out into the distance, on watch. And you shoot them, not because you hate them personally, but because you are at war with them. It is a shitty thing we ask our soldiers to do, and that is why we should be very, very careful to only ask them to do it when it is truly necessary.

471 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:07:34pm

re: #466 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

How about I roll my eyes at both, with or without your permission.

You don't need my permission. I'm just telling you what Hobbes let everyone know.

472 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:07:44pm

re: #468 NJDhockeyfan

Nobody really. Meanwhile, this scares me.

Pakistan Carts Its Nukes Around In Delivery Vans

473 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:08:11pm

re: #470 Obdicut

Wow. You choose this moment to get personal. That's sad.

I view all humans as my equal and my brother. And I would take up arms and defend my country against them, even feeling that, and yes, I'd sight, and shoot, another person.

My friend Ben Al-Gurion, ex of the US army, talked to me at length about the sense of connection you feel as a sniper with your target when you see the whites of their eyes. They're unaware, often going about their routine in camp, or looking out into the distance, on watch. And you shoot them, not because you hate them personally, but because you are at war with them. It is a shitty thing we ask our soldiers to do, and that is why we should be very, very careful to only ask them to do it when it is truly necessary.

you are an awesome person

474 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:08:45pm

re: #467 albusteve

Green River's from Washington, silly.

That was the point.

475 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:08:56pm

re: #469 Guanxi88

Yes. A lot of them fire over the heads of the enemy soldiers. That's with muskets, of course. To shell them with artillery is a lot easier, to drop bombs on them even easier.

So what? It's still not 'necessary' to do. And the modern US army does not teach soldiers to dehumanize the enemy. It is a calumny you're heaping on them to claim that they do.

476 albusteve  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:09:39pm

re: #474 windsagio

Green River's from Washington, silly.

That was the point.

you all look alike to me...fungi and moss covering you

477 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:10:18pm

re: #439 albusteve

a true fan...to hell with reality

You gotta understand, I lost my childhood team in 1997 when the Oilers moved to Tenn. That scumbag owner, Bud Adams, had no intention of continuing to use the name Oilers but still blocked its use by the new Houston franchise since he owned the rights and is a spiteful prick. Now I can root for a team with the dumbest name in the league (Texans, wow, brilliant, so creative; wouldn't Cincinnati Ohioans sound better than Bengals?)

478 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:10:27pm

~200,000 died in the Civil War.

479 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:10:58pm

re: #460 albusteve

can you read?...wow

It's grumpystevie night! Woo

480 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:10:59pm

re: #442 Sergey Romanov

Uh, punishment is not limited to execution.

The context of the discussion is the death penalty. The consistent argument of those who support the death penalty is that as long as the guilty are alive they are escaping their due punishment.

Thus the dichotomy exists.

481 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:11:09pm

re: #452 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards. How's is going?

That depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

482 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:11:25pm

re: #470 Obdicut

Wow. You choose this moment to get personal. That's sad.

I view all humans as my equal and my brother. And I would take up arms and defend my country against them, even feeling that, and yes, I'd sight, and shoot, another person.

My friend Ben Al-Gurion, ex of the US army, talked to me at length about the sense of connection you feel as a sniper with your target when you see the whites of their eyes. They're unaware, often going about their routine in camp, or looking out into the distance, on watch. And you shoot them, not because you hate them personally, but because you are at war with them. It is a shitty thing we ask our soldiers to do, and that is why we should be very, very careful to only ask them to do it when it is truly necessary.

My best wishes to this, your latest friend invoked to prove yet another point. And I;m sorry, but my heart is not so hard as yours - I cannot fathom killing a man who means me no harm unless I hate him.

No doubt, you can split that one three or even four ways. But I will remind you, we dehumanized the japanese in WWII, as surely as we dehumanized the Germans in WWI, as surely as we dehumanized the Spaniards in the Spanish-American War. perhaps some misguided belief that most normal people cannot kill those they view as equals and peers was behind it all, or perhaps they merely hadn't met your friend....

483 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:12:23pm

re: #468 NJDhockeyfan

Heh...great thread.
The winner depends on how you judge an argument.

484 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:12:35pm

re: #481 palomino

That depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

Got a cigar?

485 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:13:11pm

re: #480 kirkspencer

The context of the discussion is the death penalty. The consistent argument of those who support the death penalty is that as long as the guilty are alive they are escaping their due punishment.

Thus the dichotomy exists.

But it's a false dichotomy exactly because they don't escape punishment. It would only be a dichotomy if both sides believed that they're escaping due punishment.

486 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:13:14pm

re: #475 Obdicut

Yes. A lot of them fire over the heads of the enemy soldiers. That's with muskets, of course. To shell them with artillery is a lot easier, to drop bombs on them even easier.

So what? It's still not 'necessary' to do. And the modern US army does not teach soldiers to dehumanize the enemy. It is a calumny you're heaping on them to claim that they do.

Funny, isn't it, though, that the more removed they are from the face of the enemy, the easier it is to do? Wonder what that says about the idea that to kill a man face-to-face, you have to hate him first?

487 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:13:15pm

re: #478 Varek Raith

~200,000 died in the Civil War.

I thought it was closer to 700,000 or more. Which is a huge percentage of the young men in the country at the time, given that the total population of the US was only 30 mil.

488 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:13:19pm

re: #478 Varek Raith

~200,000 died in the Civil War.

That's in direct combat.
Overall total ~600,000

489 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:13:32pm

re: #484 NJDhockeyfan

Got a cigar?

I left it somewhere.

490 palomino  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:14:03pm

re: #484 NJDhockeyfan

Got a cigar?

Had to give them up, but I never used one in that "creative" Clinton way.

491 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:14:03pm

re: #478 Varek Raith

With the total number of dead being at least 625,000 (maybe as high are 850,000), and 1.03 million wounded.

Our Civil War, demographically, was one of the worst.

492 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:14:15pm

re: #486 Guanxi88

Funny, isn't it, though, that the more removed they are from the face of the enemy, the easier it is to do? Wonder what that says about the idea that to kill a man face-to-face, you have to hate him first?

It says that it makes it easier.

Not that it is necessary.

You are wrong.

493 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:14:53pm

re: #488 Varek Raith

That's in direct combat.
Overall total ~600,000

most tragic event in our nation's history bar none. Why I get irked when people suggest a second civil war as a solution to political problems.

494 Guanxi88  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:14:59pm

re: #492 Obdicut

It says that it makes it easier.

Not that it is necessary.

You are wrong.

So, then, how do you propose to persuade infantry to engage the enemy at close range? Or shall we ask your friend, who did not?

495 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:16:12pm

re: #488 Varek Raith

Actually, the number of those killed in Combat is similar demographically to the Libyan Civil War. Tells you just how bad things were over there.

496 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:16:43pm

How do I get the size of a picture down to 200k?

497 windsagio  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:17:41pm

re: #496 NJDhockeyfan

if you have an image manipulation program you can change jpeg compression. I use gimp, but I'm not sure if its actually the best option or anything.

498 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:17:48pm

re: #496 NJDhockeyfan

How do I get the size of a picture down to 200k?

Depends on what you have. Proggies like photoshop let you play with parameters while showing the projected size.

499 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:18:06pm

re: #496 NJDhockeyfan

How do I get the size of a picture down to 200k?

Open in MS Paint, use the resize function, and save it.

500 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:19:01pm

re: #496 NJDhockeyfan

How do I get the size of a picture down to 200k?

Here's an online tool that does it for you

501 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:19:10pm

re: #494 Guanxi88

So, then, how do you propose to persuade infantry to engage the enemy at close range? Or shall we ask your friend, who did not?

You keep pretending that I'm saying dehumanizing the enemy doesn't 'help' soldiers kill without remorse or second-guessing. It does.

But it is not necessary.

You are wrong.

502 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:19:54pm

re: #471 Guanxi88

You don't need my permission. I'm just telling you what Hobbes let everyone know.

Do you think Hobbes is the infallible word of god?

503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:21:18pm

re: #486 Guanxi88

Funny, isn't it, though, that the more removed they are from the face of the enemy, the easier it is to do? Wonder what that says about the idea that to kill a man face-to-face, you have to hate him first?

No one has to hate or kill anybody.

504 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:21:41pm

re: #385 Stanley Sea

More in response to Steve but your comment was more accesible...

Buck is the ultimate situationalist racist/hater.

Any one of his opinions does not apply to the others. He's basically horrible with hate.

I would not call Buck a hater, Buck is just partisan as hell. He defends his team, and assumes that all charges against them are unfounded and unfair.

I've never noticed him seething with rage.

505 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:22:02pm

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

I have.

506 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:22:27pm

re: #497 windsagio

re: #498 Sergey Romanov

re: #499 Obdicut

re: #500 publicityStunted

Thanks! I'll try them until I get it right.

507 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:23:13pm

re: #506 NJDhockeyfan

Remember to save with a new filename so you don't overwrite your original.

508 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:23:22pm

re: #503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No one has to hate or kill anybody.

No one had to hate but sometimes killing someone is necessary.

509 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:23:57pm

re: #507 Obdicut

Remember to save with a new filename so you don't overwrite your original.

Gotcha ;)

510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:24:33pm

re: #508 NJDhockeyfan

No one had to hate but sometimes killing someone is necessary.

Huh.

I heard it's a lot easier to kill if you hate. Is that true?

511 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:26:28pm

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

I would not call Buck a hater, Buck is just partisan as hell. He defends his team, and assumes that all charges against them are unfounded and unfair.

I've never noticed him seething with rage.

It's more a sneaky, passive-aggressive thing. (which, to me, is worse in some ways, as it's calculating and malicious as opposed to heat-of-the-moment).

512 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:26:33pm

Blood in the water.

513 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:27:14pm

re: #458 Sergey Romanov

Now racism is being pushed as necessary. Oh boy.

This came up briefly last night.

514 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:28:09pm

re: #510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Huh.

I heard it's a lot easier to kill if you hate. Is that true?

Maybe. It's more enjoyable if you hate. Any murderous terrorist would agree with that.

515 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:28:11pm

re: #479 Stanley Sea

It's grumpystevie night! Woo

As opposed to just about every other night. /

516 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:28:46pm

re: #461 Guanxi88

So, then, you hold it is possible to willingly kill one whom you view as your equal and brother? I could never do that.

Cold indeed is the heart in your breast.

Seriously?

Every WWII vet I've spoken to at any length acknowledges the humanity of the enemy. They don't regret killing in a just war, but they do regret that men who didn't start that war had to die. On both sides.

I'm bothered by the idea that soldiers have an innate understanding of the brotherhood of man that must be suppressed by showing them enough racist imagery. Yes, men can kill without being shown bucktoothed caricatures. They're doing it right now.

517 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:29:38pm

re: #514 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe. It's more enjoyable if you hate. Any murderous terrorist would agree with that.

Not just murderous terrorists, evidently.

I would say the cowardly proxy-murderers and let-someone-else-do-it-for-me chickenhawks revel in the same sociopathological feeling.

518 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:29:38pm

re: #514 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe. It's more enjoyable if you hate. Any murderous terrorist would agree with that.

Exactly. So those who justify racist agitprop have just justified Hamas' agitptop. After all it's just a military necessity, ain't it.

519 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:30:04pm

re: #469 Guanxi88

Given the significant number of muskets recovered from battlefields showing multiple unfired charges (soldiers pretending to load, aim, and fire) and the surprisingly light casualties in most engagements), yes, most men were unwilling to kill.

Sugest you look into the USMC studies on the subject. Most normal people cannot stomach the thought of killing another person.

Interestingly, the thing that makes the most difference appears to be not racist cartoons, but video games, regardless of racial imagery.

My generation has a much lower rate of kill balk than previous ones.

This is not something I'm real proud of.

520 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:30:06pm

re: #518 Sergey Romanov

Exactly. So those who justify racist agitprop have just justified Hamas' agirptop. After all it's just a military necessity, ain't it.

Pfft, eggs/omelets.

521 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:30:20pm

re: #501 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I have to disagree.
Soldiers suffer from PTSD, because their bodies must adapt to severe emotional trauma. They have to do things that are inhumane. In order to do those things, the enemy must become less than human -- the soldiers are trained to think this way from day one.
If you are in combat with people who will kill you on site, and you are out of ammo up close and personal, you don't have time to think of this person as having a cause, or a family. You have to be immediately be willing to smash in his face.
That's why the army likes 18 year olds - their brains are easily moulded.

522 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:32:06pm

re: #521 OhNoZombies!

You're mistaking the argument, which is about dehumanizing the enemy, purposefully, being necessary.

And you're constructing a very bizarre, out of ammo, up close and personal situation which is not what we were talking about.

It's not about 'not having time'. That's not in the least what we're talking about.

523 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:32:50pm

re: #519 SanFranciscoZionist

'Enders Game' by Orson Scott Card
Long story short, war is being waged by super vicious kids who play video games...
But it's not really a game.

524 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:33:16pm

re: #521 OhNoZombies!

Also, saying soldiers become less than human-- that's really, really not a good line of reasoning to go down. That is, in fact, dehumanizing soldiers.

525 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:33:44pm

How many pixels equal 200K?

526 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:35:19pm

re: #514 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe. It's more enjoyable if you hate. Any murderous terrorist would agree with that.

See, this is where your logic doesn't work . You always assume these thoughts to your hated terrorists, but to me, these thoughts are held by my neighbors and blog mates. You/they are not pulling the triggers, but damn, the language is quite comparable.

527 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:36:08pm

re: #525 NJDhockeyfan

How many pixels equal 200K?

Depends on many factors, first of all compression.
Just try different knobs in, say, Irfanview (it's free or shareware).

528 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:36:19pm

re: #525 NJDhockeyfan

How many pixels equal 200K?

It depends on your compression settings, there's no easy calculation. I always just resize, check the size, if it's too big, try again.

529 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:37:09pm

re: #524 Obdicut

Also, saying soldiers become less than human-- that's really, really not a good line of reasoning to go down. That is, in fact, dehumanizing soldiers.

But we've been there before, arguing about Nat Turner (then some sides were, ironically, reversed).

530 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:38:35pm

re: #529 Sergey Romanov

But we've been there before, arguing about Nat Turner (then some sides were, ironically, reversed).

I don't agree that that is at all analogous to this discussion, and I was not the one taking the extreme stance on that. My only statement about Nat Turner was that I could better understand a person killing another person than enslaving another one. It had nothing to do with adjudging anyone more or less human.

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:40:20pm

re: #530 Obdicut

I'm not saying you were extreme, quite contrary you were on the sane side. You probably forgot, but you said the same thing about dehumanization of slaves (I agree, BTW).

532 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:42:13pm

re: #528 Obdicut

It depends on your compression settings, there's no easy calculation. I always just resize, check the size, if it's too big, try again.

Trial & error...

533 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:42:49pm

re: #532 NJDhockeyfan

Trial & error...

Is it a photo you wouldn't want to share? I could try.

534 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:43:50pm

re: #531 Sergey Romanov

Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted you.

535 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:44:12pm

re: #524 Obdicut

No. I'm not dehumanizing soldiers. The process of making soldiers is dehumanizing, hence PTSD.
I'm saying that if you put a person in a life or death situation, and the person from day 1 at boot camp is taught to kill on instinct, I cannot in good consciousness call them war criminals.
Honestly, you guys seemed to be arguing past eachother.
Oh, and my scenario wasn't bizarre in the least. War is ugly and I can't sit in judgement of them or the stuff they have to do.

536 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:44:22pm

re: #534 Obdicut

No prob, I see in the spy you're multitasking ;)

537 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:45:07pm

re: #533 Sergey Romanov

Is it a photo you wouldn't want to share? I could try.

It's one I want to show everyone.

538 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:45:16pm

re: #524 Obdicut

Also, saying soldiers become less than human-- that's really, really not a good line of reasoning to go down. That is, in fact, dehumanizing soldiers.

The problem with PTSD, aside from all the other problems with PTSD, is that it comes home with you.

My grandparents divorced after, among other things, my grandfather tried to strangle my grandmother in the dead of night, crying about Japs coming over the hill.

Human beings were not meant to be in high-intensity combat for long periods of time.

And what these kids serving now are up against is longer and longer deployments.

539 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:46:07pm

re: #535 OhNoZombies!

No. I'm not dehumanizing soldiers. The process of making soldiers is dehumanizing, hence PTSD.

PTSD is not something that all soldiers have as a result of being soldiers, you know. So you're mistaken there.

I'm saying that if you put a person in a life or death situation, and the person from day 1 at boot camp is taught to kill on instinct, I cannot in good consciousness call them war criminals.

I'm not calling them war criminals. I think you've really gotten a distinctly wrong impression of what we're talking about.

Honestly, you guys seemed to be arguing past eachother.

Nope. His contention is that it is necessary to dehumanize the enemy in order to kill them. Mine is that it is not-- that while it may 'help', it is not necessary.

540 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:46:19pm

re: #537 NJDhockeyfan

It's one I want to show everyone.

Upload it on imageshack.us, it will give you several size options.
Or just upload and we'll minimize it.

541 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:46:56pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist

But not every soldier gets PTSD from simply being trained to be a soldier. And many get PTSD not from any killing they've done themselves. And PTSD does not make you less than human.

542 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:52:48pm

re: #539 Obdicut

Nope. His contention is that it is necessary to dehumanize the enemy in order to kill them. Mine is that it is not-- that while it may 'help', it is not necessary.

Or think of this scenario, which became painfully clear to just about everyone on Sep 11 - a fighter pilot having to shoot down a jet with hundreds of people onboard to prevent it being flown into a building and potentially killing thousands. Does the pilot need to "hate" or "dehumanize" the passengers? No, the pilot just needs to be convinced of a necessary sacrifice for a greater good.

543 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:54:04pm

re: #542 publicityStunted

Plus, when it's the direct combat, it's kill or be killed. So the phrase above about a person "meaning no harm" is rather... ...

544 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:54:49pm

re: #542 publicityStunted

There's lots and lots of first-hand stories from soldiers in WWII of the turmoil they felt in killing the enemy precisely because they didn't dehumanize them. Private Webster of the famous Band of Brothers wrote eloquently about it.

545 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:55:35pm

re: #544 Obdicut

There's lots and lots of first-hand stories from soldiers in WWII of the turmoil they felt in killing the enemy precisely because they didn't dehumanize them.

My, what cold, dark hearts they had 9_9

546 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:55:42pm

re: #539 Obdicut

How would it not be necessary?
I think it's asking too much of a person not to dehumanize. Otherwise its sociopathic.
PTSD and suicide.
This is older and I think suicide rates have increased.

547 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:57:00pm

re: #541 Obdicut

But not every soldier gets PTSD from simply being trained to be a soldier. And many get PTSD not from any killing they've done themselves. And PTSD does not make you less than human.

All true.

548 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:58:47pm

re: #546 OhNoZombies!

How would it not be necessary?
I think it's asking too much of a person not to dehumanize. Otherwise its sociopathic.
PTSD and suicide.
This is older and I think suicide rates have increased.

Um, there's a difference between that and organized racist propaganda.

549 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 7:59:07pm

re: #546 OhNoZombies!

How would it not be necessary?

I don't know what you mean. It is not necessary, because soldiers have indeed killed enemy soldiers without dehumanizing them. Many of them have written about it. I know that Ambrose has fallen into a bit of disrepute, but the many first-hand accounts he gives in Citizen Soldiers are worth reading.

It is not at all sociopathic to kill someone without dehumanzing them. It is more sociopathic to do so. The word 'sociopathic' is of very, very limited utility, though.

There was one 'fighting Quaker' in the Revolutionary war who shot a British soldier, and then dropped to his knees and prayed for that man's soul. Then another soldier approached, and the Quaker shot him as well. Then, with tears streaming down his face, he begged god for his grace upon the souls of the two men he'd killed.

A fellow of his who'd seen it remarked to another fellow, "Seems odd to kill a man and then pray for him, doesn't it?"

To which his fellow replied, "Seems a lot odder to kill a man and not even pray for him, doesn't it?"

550 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:06:09pm

re: #548 Sergey Romanov

Lemme be clear. I only defend modern soldiers in combat situations. I think the mind, in an effort to protect itself from the persistent stressful situation in combat, removes the humanity from the perceived enemy.
I have no sympathy for bigots. I would hope no one would think I would.

551 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:07:36pm

re: #550 OhNoZombies!

This is certainly true of some men in combat. But not all of them. For many, the PTSD comes from the torture of knowing the person you are shooting is a human just like you.

552 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:07:52pm

re: #550 OhNoZombies!

Lemme be clear. I only defend modern soldiers in combat situations. I think the mind, in an effort to protect itself from the persistent stressful situation in combat, removes the humanity from the perceived enemy.
I have no sympathy for bigots. I would hope no one would think I would.

Except, of course, all that time in all those comments that you dutifully updinged Guanxi argued that the racist anti-Japanese propaganda was not only defensible but necessary. That's how the sub-debate started.

553 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:08:38pm

re: #549 Obdicut

Ok. But I think those instances stand out because they're aberrations.

554 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:13:48pm

re: #553 OhNoZombies!

Ok. But I think those instances stand out because they're aberrations.

I have no idea why you think that.

Please read Citizen Soldiers, and whatever other war diaries of infantrymen you can get your hands on-- the ones from the European Theater, preferably, where people were not as exposed to the racist propaganda that Guan Xi saw as 'necessary'.

555 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:13:52pm

re: #552 Sergey Romanov


And I wasn't agreeing with him, I just liked his argument style. It amused me.
Really. It made me smile because I wasn't taking it seriously and it felt like he was fucking with everyone.
But I dont know him, so he may have been...

556 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:14:38pm

re: #555 OhNoZombies!

It was both :)

557 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:16:09pm

re: #525 NJDhockeyfan

How many pixels equal 200K?

(Pixel width x pixel height x bit depth)/8192 = Size in K (Only works for uncompressed tiff files.)

558 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:17:06pm

re: #555 OhNoZombies!

It's amusing for someone to asserting that racist propaganda is necessary?

559 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:19:43pm

re: #558 Obdicut

I didn't take him seriously. It felt like he was trying to get a rise out of people, and it was working.

560 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:24:36pm

re: #559 OhNoZombies!

I didn't take him seriously. It felt like he was trying to get a rise out of people, and it was working.

Okay. Then it's amusing to pretend to support racist propaganda?

And based on former interactions with him: he's quite serious.

561 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:27:37pm

re: #560 Obdicut

...based on former interactions with him: he's quite serious.

Why am I not surprised.

562 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:31:46pm

re: #172 Guanxi88

Addendum:

Never could happen in California. Two reasons:

1) It's tobacco use, which is a crime on a par with conservatism there;

Well no, we just don't permit conservatives to criminalize everyone else out of the populace anymore, like they used to in the segregation/Anti-Alien eras.

563 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:35:56pm

re: #560 Obdicut

What are you doing? Do you think I would condone what he said if I thought he was serious?
I think when people get into arguments with people who seem to be trolling, is kind of silly. And like I said, I don't know him, I'm not defending him.
If he was serious, tell me that he was, but don't try to back me into a corner with questions like that.

564 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:37:34pm

re: #563 OhNoZombies!

What are you doing? Do you think I would condone what he said if I thought he was serious?
I think when people get into arguments with people who seem to be trolling, is kind of silly. And like I said, I don't know him, I'm not defending him.
If he was serious, tell me that he was, but don't try to back me into a corner with questions like that.

I'm sorry, but you appear to be saying you updinged him because he was trolling.

Is that not accurate?

565 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:39:08pm

re: #563 OhNoZombies!

Basically: You updinged comments that say using racist propaganda was necessary. This is a true statement, right? This is what happened?

566 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 8:46:39pm

:)re: #565 Obdicut

Ok. My interpretation of what he was saying was not that he thought it was right, but That it was a necessary tool to justify their actions.
It seemed to me, his point was propaganda is a tool of war to get people on board for killing other people.
I didn't think he was ok with it, it was just matter of fact.
I liked his style in that it was an emotionless argument. I stopped updinging him at the point he got personal.

567 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:03:52pm

re: #566 OhNoZombies!

It's not a matter of fact that propaganda is necessary.

568 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:21:51pm

re: #567 Obdicut

I'm saying his style is matter of fact.
Propaganda is applied psychology. A way to manage the population. You have to shore up the masses for support because you don't want internal fights against an outrageous cause. Tribalism works. Xenophobia works. Fear is what propaganda promotes--group think.
Fox news is a prime example. Most viewers take their propaganda on face value because it supports their fears and insecurities. The agenda wingnuts propose hurts the base in reality, but they blindly support it because the propaganda reinforces their world view.
Am I being clear? Hard to tell when your typing on a phone.

569 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:37:22pm

re: #568 OhNoZombies!

But it's not necessary.

He thinks it is.

570 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:50:41pm

re: #569 Obdicut

And that's important. It's a part of our reality. It's important to know it when we see it, and how it works. I want to understand the thought process of a person who subscribes to the notion.
I think I enjoyed the argument because it gives me insight that i cant get from people that I agree with, but it has to be a good argument -- not a run of the mill Buck-like monstrosity. I see Buck's talking points, and I have absolutely no interest in reading the whole paragraph. Its boring.
So I would argue, I found you guys' debate stimulating.

571 Obdicut  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 9:55:43pm

re: #570 OhNoZombies!

That's fine. To me, you still updinged someone who said that racist demonization of the enemy is necessary in wartime.

And I find that a very wrong concept, on every level, from the factual to the moral.

572 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:09:59pm

re: #571 Obdicut

So do I. But the updings were for the effort.
You do realize that I'm the one who put the fear of God in my neighbor for saying racist shit under my kids' window. Right?
I also thought I was clear that I didn't interpret him being ok with racism, but I conceded that since I didn't know him that I could have been wrong.
Frankly, I'm surprised that a couple of updings would cause such outrage.
I'm not THAT new, and I supposed that it was clear where I stand on such issues.
But understand, I don't always see things in black and white.
I have to consider all points of view.

573 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 10:19:33pm

Also, in war, where is the line between right and wrong?
War is wrong, but it's what we do.
Everyone in the fight sees the other as the enemy. The other side is viewed as evil and murderous. But they're all killing. The twists and turns the mind must make to cope with inhuman action...
I can't say what is and isn't necessary because I haven't experienced war first hand.
Seems like what's right and wrong would blur...

574 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 3:20:18am

re: #573 OhNoZombies!

It's really weird to me that you keep referring to killing as inhuman. It's not. It's very, very human.

575 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:43:31am

re: #574 Obdicut

On a basic level, yes. But so is the fact that in civil society we find it abhorrent. I like to believe that we're ultimately altruistic beings who find wholesale killing animalistic.
I guess I'm basically a humanist. I think that in discussing our behavior, we are make an effort to understand it.
I don't think it's weird to think better of people in general.

576 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 7:52:50am

re: #575 OhNoZombies!

I like to believe that we're ultimately altruistic beings who find wholesale killing animalistic.

We are animals too. Denying that leads to tragedy.

I guess I'm basically a humanist. I think that in discussing our behavior, we are make an effort to understand it.

Me too.

I don't think it's weird to think better of people in general.

It does seem to ignore the vast majority of human history though, doesn't it?

577 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:10:11am

re: #576 Obdicut

The very fAct that we record our history means that we acknowledge the need to learn from it. This is true even in oral tradition.
I don't, however, deny were animals, but i think it's just as instinctive for us to create order out of chaos. Civilization, religion and laws therein, are an effort to create safety and security for those less able to physically defend themselves. Fear results in reverting to instinct over reason.
When humans break laws, we fear the breakdown of that order, so we punish them.

578 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:18:02am

re: #577 OhNoZombies!

The very fAct that we record our history means that we acknowledge the need to learn from it.

And isn't one of the main things we learn is that we spend an awful lot of time killing each other?

Civilization, religion and laws therein, are an effort to create safety and security for those less able to physically defend themselves.

What the hell? You think that the basis of religion is an effort to create safety and security for the weak? Really?

579 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:23:05am

Modern religion is a horrid mutation. It's a tool of the powerful over the weak and should be avoided at all cost.
However, I don't believe that was it's original intent.
Christ would not recognize Christians.

580 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:28:07am

re: #579 OhNoZombies!

Modern religion is a horrid mutation. It's a tool of the powerful over the weak and should be avoided at all cost.
However, I don't believe that was it's original intent.
Christ would not recognize Christians.

And Christianity is nothing like an original religion, either. Did you just mean 'Christianity' by 'religion'?

And when you say civilization was an invention to protect the weak, you're not including civilizations like, say, the British Empire, Ancient Egypt, Babylonia, the Mongol Empire, the Russian Empire, The USSR, the United States prior to the freedom of the slaves, the Roman Republic, the Athenian Democracy, and, well, virtually every civilization that has ever existed all of which codified the abuse and persecution of the weak as part of their tenets? The laws allowing slavery were actually to protect the weak?

581 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:43:38am

And Christianity is nothing like an original religion, either. Did you just mean 'Christianity' by 'religion'?

Yep.

... the United States prior to the freedom of the slaves,...

It's a process of learning. Civilizations who abuse the weak, and deny individual humanity, are doomed to fail.
This is the lesson the US needs to focus on right now. This is why there is such a push to rewrite history, and gut our educational system.
I never said humans were perfect, but we can learn.

582 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 8:51:16am

re: #581 OhNoZombies!

Yep.

Okay. Christianity represents a very small minority of the total religion. The portion of Christianity that was pacificistic represents an even tinier percentage. And even that made no attempt to protect the weak, instead basically saying that their reward would be in heaven. So no, your statement that religion was originally to protect the weak isn't remotely true.

Civilizations who abuse the weak, and deny individual humanity, are doomed to fail.

But that wasn't what you said. You said civilization was an attempt to protect the weak. It's not, and it hasn't been. Our particular civilization codifies that as a good.

You appear to be arbitrarily deciding "civilization" is synonymous with Western Enlightenment post-14th amendment, post-civil rights values, and that religion is synonymous with Christianity-- and a very small subset of Christianity. You're defining 'humanity' by one of the absolutely smallest percentages of human behavior.

I never said humans were perfect, but we can learn.

Sure. I agree. And in order to learn, we need to be honest about how intrinsic killing each other has been for us. Not to try to claim that it's inhuman. And this conflicts with your previous statement:

I like to believe that we're ultimately altruistic beings who find wholesale killing animalistic.

If that's true, why the hell do we spend so much time doing it? If we're ultimately altruistic beings, why isn't that ultimate viewable throughout human history?

Every bid of decency and good that we have achieved has been the result of blood, sweat, tears, hard-fought battles by great men and women, brilliant ideas and striving against the blood-soaked horror of our past to rise ourselves above it. And even so, we're barely anywhere in that goal. We're still pumping shitloads of CO2 into the atmosphere even though we know it's going to kill millions.

583 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:21:57am

I'm thinking in general terms. I'm thinking holistically, it's against my nature to think otherwise.
To think that humans are altruistic does not deny our tendency toward tribalism and violence and power grabbing.
But we also have the ability to recognize the danger in these things.
Do you think the process of human evolution has stopped? That this is how it's always been, so this is all we will ever be?
I don't. There would have been no enlightenment otherwise, and we may as well give up.
Religion in general, is the attempt to create order from chaos. Its intent is to understand why, for example, bad things happen to good people, why we're here
Things that are perceived as unknowable.
The weak, in the terms I'm thinking of, are the weak in the tribe.

584 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:27:14am

re: #583 OhNoZombies!

I'm thinking in general terms. I'm thinking holistically, it's against my nature to think otherwise.

No, you're not. When you said 'religion', you didn't actually mean religion. You meant Christianity. That is the opposite of thinking holistically.

Do you think the process of human evolution has stopped? That this is how it's always been, so this is all we will ever be?

You don't mean evolution, right? You mean the development of society, or something?

Sure. That is, in fact, my point. We have to work, very, very hard to develop our society because we have such a cultural background and so many biological impulses towards violence and aggression. Because violence and murder and war are very, very human, not inhuman at all.

The weak, in the terms I'm thinking of, are the weak in the tribe.

Except, of course, for the religions and societies that mandate the killing of the weak in the tribe. But I think you're 'no true Scotsman'-ing those and saying that those don't qualify, for some reason.

585 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:47:12am

You don't mean evolution, right? You mean the development of society, or something?
Yes. I mean the evolution of society.

violence and murder and war are very, very human, not inhuman at all.
Inhumane is a more accurate word. Good catch. :)

No, you're not. When you said 'religion', you didn't actually mean religion. You meant Christianity. That is the opposite of thinking holistically.
I was thinking about Christianity holistically. In other words, Christianity didn't start out as what we see today.

Hey, keep picking apart my argument, I'm enjoying it, but if I don't respond right away, it's not a retreat. I can't concentrate with a 5 year old on my face.
Bbiab...

586 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 9:54:57am

re: #585 OhNoZombies!

I'm sorry, man, I don't even feel you have made an argument of any sort. You basically asserted a lot of things that weren't true-- that civilization is an effort to protect the weak, that religion is as well, and that killing, war, and murder aren't human-- and then went down a lot of blind alleys.

My point is that we should acknowledge that war, including just massacring entire other nations even though we know they are truly just as human as we are-- the Mongols didn't think that the people they were killing weren't human, they didn't dehumanize their enemies at all, they just happily killed them. The Romans were astonishingly non-racist, and they acknowledged the humanity of those they were killing. They just didn't fucking care. Massacring people who may or may not be 'innocent' was not a bad thing to the Romans, or to many other civilizations-- the majority of civilizations.
And very often religion was in service of this slaughter, not in any way arrayed against it.

To return to the original; it is not, at all, necessary to dehumanize other people in order to kill them. Not even up close and personal. It can be very helpful, but the modern US army does not dehumanize in the way they did in WWII, with racist propaganda. They mainly do so by stressing the use of weapons systems and combined fire that means it's rarely hand-to-hand, face to face fighting, but, in the elite unites where that does go down, they do it by stressing espirit de corps; unsurprisingly, it's rather easy to shoot at people when they're shooting at you, and even easier when they just shot your buddy in the gut and he's screaming in pain.

The statement that it is necessary to dehumanize the enemy in order to kill them is wrong on every level, from the moral to the practical, and it is a dangerous and, to me, repellent assertion, as is your assertion that soldiers are made less than human.

587 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:30:39am

Well then I think you missed my point. And I think your wrong. People dehumanize others all the time. Even calling someone your enemy, or an infidel or whatever objectifies the human.

588 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 12:42:21pm

re: #587 OhNoZombies!

Well then I think you missed my point. And I think your wrong. People dehumanize others all the time. Even calling someone your enemy, or an infidel or whatever objectifies the human.

No, calling someone an enemy does not 'objectify' them, and I have no idea why you think it does. Please, again, read the letters of soldiers. a lot of the trauma from PTSD is because they didn't dehumanize their opponents, they killed them while being very aware of their humanity, and it fucked them up.

589 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:47:51pm

re: #521 OhNoZombies!

Soldiers suffer from PTSD, because their bodies must adapt to severe emotional trauma. They have to do things that are inhumane. In order to do those things, the enemy must become less than human -- the soldiers are trained to think this way from day one.

re: #588

No, calling someone an enemy does not 'objectify' them, and I have no idea why you think it does. Please, again, read the letters of soldiers. a lot of the trauma from PTSD is because they didn't dehumanize their opponents, they killed them while being very aware of their humanity, and it fucked them up.

Calling a person anything outside of their name objectifies them. Calling Obama socialist moozlim --an enemy of freedom, objectifies him. Calling me a godless librul, or a brainwashed slave would objectify me.
Combat training reconditions the way soldiers react to stressful situations...
PTSD is caused by the soldiers inability to cope with life outside of combat due to biochemical changes induced by having to kill people. The military teaches the soldier to react without thinking.
When their tour of duty is over, they are thrust into society without being deprogrammed.
Killing fellow humans is unnatural...

My assertions are repellant, but that doesnt make them any less true.

590 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:56:20pm

re: #589 OhNoZombies!

Calling a person anything outside of their name objectifies them.

That's just fucking nonsense.

591 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 2:59:16pm

re: #590 Obdicut

I'm done. Get over yourself.

592 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 3:09:49pm

re: #591 OhNoZombies!

Likewise. Please read "Citizen Soldier" and whatever other accounts from actual soldiers writing about their experiences, to see the truth: very often, they have the terrible knowledge that the people they are fighting and killing are humans just like them.

593 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 5, 2011 5:48:18pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

It's actually a commonly used perfumers note. (Recent years have seen much complaining in perfume forums about the prevalence of 'fruitchouli' as a modern fragrance trend.) As a one-note hippie fragrance, I think it became popular through Indian body oils, and was favored because--before it became the signature scent of hippies everywhere--it was exotic. Eastern, rich, and not the smell of the White Shoulders your mother sent you off to college with.

There may be a more specific reason.

Funny, around here it's known to be used by goths.

594 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 1:17:59am

re: #339 Guanxi88

Following conviction under the law, and a trial by a jury of their peers, and the exhaustion of all appeals, yes, I'm quite all right with it.

Your faith in government is principled and strong.

595 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 1:29:32am

re: #369 Guanxi88

All kidding aside, the maintenance of law and order within a region is gthe internal analogue of the defense of the nation-state beyond its borders. In both cases, it is the distinction between the permissible and the inpermissible, the friend and the enemy.

How very Carl Schmitt of you.

596 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 1:43:31am

re: #417 Guanxi88

It's necessary to dehumanize the enemy.

See #595.

597 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Nov 6, 2011 2:38:27am

re: #586 Obdicut

Religion is not a way to protect the weak but to humanize (through rituals and other forms of narrative practice and theory) the apathetic monstrosity that is nature and that leaves humans feeling powerless otherwise, especially in the face of natural catastrophies. It has more to do with establishing leadership (priest-kings), restoring social cohesion, and providing a type of social-psychological therapy than with any sort of universal charity.


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