GOP Debate Audience Cheers Child Labor

The craziness goes all the way to the bottom
Politics • Views: 29,588

In previous GOP debates, the audience booed a gay soldier, cheered Rick Perry for setting a record in executions, and applauded letting people without health insurance die.

Last night, another appalling moment was added to this catalog of infamy: GOP Debate Audience Cheers Child Labor.

“I think every person up here worked at a young age,” Gingrich declared. “What I suggested was kids ought to be able to work part time in schools, particularly in the poorest neighborhoods.”

“If you take one half of the New York janitors, who are paid more than the teachers. An entry-level janitor gets paid twice as much as an entry-level teacher. You take half those janitors, you could give lots of poor kids a work experience in the cafeteria, in the school library, in the front office, in a lot of different things. I’ll stand by the idea young people ought to learn how to work.”

With that, the Republican audience erupted with applause.

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515 comments
1 Political Atheist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:40:18am

Ugh. My only regret is that I could only quit the party once. Adding this to my "destructive partisanship" file. Er file cabinet. A cabinet that groans under the weight of fail like this.

2 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:41:32am

Newt should mind his own fucking business...when and where a child learns to work is none of his

3 Altermite  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:42:07am
4 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:42:16am

And what about poor kids getting an education so they can be more than poor. I think it's good to learn work skills too but in middle school your focus needs to be your education and developing study habits that will serve you well later. I assume Newt's talking middle school aged anyhow since you can work through most of high school.

5 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:44:24am

I bet 10,000 rolls of toilet paper Newt has never cleaned his own toilet.

6 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:45:25am

re: #5 jaunte
That is an even money bet. I do not have enough room for 10,000 rolls of toilet paper.

7 sprezzatura  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:56:26am

This plays perfectly into the Republican worldview that the poor (especially non-white poor) are poor because they are lazy and do not know the value of work. Therefore, the idea that poor kids should be taught as young as possible to value work resonates perfectly with them.

The union busting of "overpaid" janitors is just the icing on the cake.

8 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 10:58:41am

Charles you are more optimistic than I am. I don't think we've hit bottom yet.

9 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:00:38am

afk ::: watching Bob Ross :::

10 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:02:45am

re: #7 sprezzatura

This plays perfectly into the Republican worldview that the poor (especially non-white poor) are poor because they are lazy and do not know the value of work. Therefore, the idea that poor kids should be taught as young as possible to value work resonates perfectly with them.

The union busting of "overpaid" janitors is just the icing on the cake.

Yes, I think you're right about that attitude. It's bullshit really but that definitely is the mindset.

11 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:04:38am

It's quite the freak show this year with gop hopefuls. I wonder how the more liberal and moderate republicans are tolerating all the bad craziness.

12 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:05:38am

re: #11 eclectic infidel

It's quite the freak show this year with gop hopefuls. I wonder how the more liberal and moderate republicans are tolerating all the bad craziness.

My former roommate, liberal Republican I imagine is a Huntsman supporter.

13 Political Atheist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:07:35am

re: #11 eclectic infidel

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Or they just bail out.
[Link: www.pollster.com...]

14 Achilles Tang  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:11:09am

It's strange how Newt can take an issue like teaching work ethics or skills to kids, which just about anyone would agree with, and make it a polarizing , implicitly racist, and largely insignificant financial issue. He talks of employing perhaps 30 kids, part time, out of a total of probably hundreds, and of which the 30 will be volunteers (presumably) and the ones who might conceivably benefit the most would need to be conscripted to do the work.

This is the analysis level of a wannabe president of the USA?

15 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:14:39am

Undercover police spied on protesters at Occupy LA

Elise Whitaker, an Occupy LA organizer, said she was not surprised to hear that police sent undercover officers into the camp but said she believes such surveillance proved unwarranted because the demonstration was peaceful.

"I'm not thrilled about it," she said. "It's demeaning to the movement. It suggests that we are not who we say we are. It suggests that they don't trust us."
....
After clearing the encampment, however, police found buckets of feces, water bottles filled with urine and pieces of bamboo with sharpened tips stashed in bushes and trees, police and city sources told Reuters.

One police source said officers discovered a pickup truck parked near City Hall the night before the eviction with about 100 sharpened bamboo sticks stashed in the bed of the vehicle.

Another, LAPD Commander Andy Smith, said bamboo spears were thrown from the crowd at police at the outset of the November 30 eviction raid, though no one was reported hurt.

16 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:16:03am

re: #14 Naso Tang

He's not thinking about the real world effects of the stuff he throws out. I think he knows his audience would like to hear that 'poor people are poor because they're lazy,' and that's the simpleminded pap he tries to put a gloss on.

17 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:22:50am

Half the janitors make more than teachers? Then fire half of them, hire kids to do their work.

That way you don't have to pay those liberal tenured teachers more.

18 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:24:42am

Newt was lying, of course.

There was one Bronx School where entry-level custodial engineers made more than entry-level teachers. There may be others.

The actual responsibilities of an 'entry level' custodial engineer:

At Assignment Level I: Custodian Engineers (BOE), under general supervision, supervise and are responsible for the physical operation, maintenance, repair, custodial upkeep and care of a public school building and its immediate grounds; supervise, plan and are responsible for the work of the custodial and maintenance staff; heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture; supervise cleaning of the building and grounds; maintain the building and grounds in a safe, secure and sanitary condition; conduct inspections of building to determine needed repairs; consult with and advise officials on problems of operation, maintenance and repairs; set up custodial work schedules to ensure maximum efficiency and minimum interference with classroom activities; requisition and account for custodial and maintenance materials, tools and supplies; maintain records and prepare required reports of plant operations; within assigned budget, hire appropriate personnel and train or arrange for their training, prepare payrolls and personnel forms, pay wages and provide Worker’s Compensation Insurance for hired personnel; are responsible
for interior maintenance painting of school building; perform related work.

It's a managerial position.

And for that, in 2004, they got $41,500 a year in base pay. And they work 12 months a year to earn that.

If entry level teachers made less than that, then we were paying teachers too little. And that is not a job that can be done by a kid. That is not sweeping the floor.

Newt lies, and his audience likes being lied to.

[Link: docs.google.com...]

19 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:24:59am

re: #17 BigPapa

Half the janitors make more than teachers? Then fire half of them, hire kids to do their work.

That way you don't have to pay those liberal tenured teachers more.

a union janitor makes more than a union teacher?...now that's just funny

20 ElCapitanAmerica  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:25:29am

The funny thing is I actually think we should encourage kids to work less than now and focus more on academics. Too many highschool kids spend too much time working at McDonalds when our nation would benefit more if they were learning calculus, a second or third language, and them volunteering to learn the value of work AND helping their community.

21 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:27:06am

re: #20 ElCapitanAmerica

The funny thing is I actually think we should encourage kids to work less than now and focus more on academics. Too many highschool kids spend too much time working at McDonalds when our nation would benefit more if they were learning calculus, a second or third language, and them volunteering to learn the value of work AND helping their community.

Yeah. When we have millions of out-of-work adults, many of whom have children, encouraging more child labor is going to depress the labor market further, lowering wages.

22 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:27:14am

re: #19 albusteve

a union janitor makes more than a union teacher?...now that's just funny

What's funny is how many people will just believe it. I was sarcastically mimicking Newt's logic.

See Obdi's post above yours.

23 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:28:36am

re: #22 BigPapa

What's funny is how many people will just believe it. I was sarcastically mimicking Newt's logic.

See Obdi's post above yours.

just riffin on the bizarre notion

24 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:30:00am

re: #11 eclectic infidel

It's quite the freak show this year with gop hopefuls. I wonder how the more liberal and moderate republicans are tolerating all the bad craziness.

I can't think of any liberal or moderate Republicans who function at the national level, anymore. Some state-level guys are liberal or moderate-- we have a couple in New York who are downright reasonable.

But even Huntsman, the supposed moderate, proposes the lunatic, shameful idea of 0% capital gains tax and hates on the EPA.

25 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:34:02am

Oh, and here's the requirements for that Custodial Engineer job:

Two years of full-time satisfactory experience in building operation and maintenance; or

Two years of full-time satisfactory experience in building management as a superintendent of buildings and grounds, building superintendent, building manager, or custodian; or

Three years of full-time satisfactory experience as a building cleaner; and certification as a Low-Pressure Boiler Operator (FDNY Certificate of Fitness) and possession of any two of the
following certificates:

a. Interior Fire Alarm (FDNY Certificate of Fitness)
b. Air Compressor (FDNY Certificate of Fitness)
c. Sprinkler (FDNY Certificates of Fitness)
d. Standpipe (FDNY Certificate of Fitness)
e. Hi-Rise Fire Safety Director (FDNY Certificate of Fitness)
f. Air Pollution Certification (DEP Certificate)
g. Universal Chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) Refrigerant Certification; or

Possession of a New York City license or Certificate of Qualification as an Oil Burning Equipment Installer, High Pressure Boiler Operating Engineer, or Refrigerating Machine Operator; or

Graduation from an accredited trade school with a minimum of 185 classroom hours and 35 field hours in a related field (e.g., HVAC, boiler operation, skilled trades, etc.); or

Graduation from an accredited college with a two-year degree in any Engineering Technology,Construction Technology, or Facilities and Building Management; or

Graduation from an accredited college with a four-year degree in any engineering field.

I would be very surprised if there were more than one or two kids in the whole of New York that actually qualified for those jobs.

26 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:35:09am

re: #25 Obdicut

Oh, and here's the requirements for that Custodial Engineer job:

I would be very surprised if there were more than one or two kids in the whole of New York that actually qualified for those jobs.

But they're lazy union bums. ///

27 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:36:18am

re: #25 Obdicut
That is why they get paid what they do. I do not think kids could do the job. Newt and company should learn how to research before they open their collective mouths.

28 SpaceJesus  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:37:37am

america's republicans need a time out

29 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:38:06am

I'm reminded of a recent Krauthammer projection.

"This is a classic example of how little it takes to stir the erogenous zones of the GOP base. You give them a speech about hard work, prayer, a little bit of class war. You wrap it up in the patina of intellectualism."

30 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:38:17am

re: #27 PhillyPretzel

That is why they get paid what they do. I do not think kids could do the job. Newt and company should learn how to research before they open their collective mouths.

You make the implicit assumption that they'd allow post-research facts to influence their policy positions.

31 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:39:32am

re: #27 PhillyPretzel

That is why they get paid what they do. I do not think kids could do the job. Newt and company should learn how to research before they open their collective mouths.

Their audience doesn't want them to research. Their audience likes being lied lied to. Their version of reality depends on victimhood.

32 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:40:13am

re: #30 erik_t
They need to think before the speak rather than speaking without thinking.

33 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:46:45am

Right wing politicians have constructed a myth that they sell to their base that union workers are lazy. This is a bullshit lie. Two of my great grandfathers were unionized coal miners and many of their sons were unionized steel workers. These guys were poor but they worked their asses off to give their family a better life.

34 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:47:08am

re: #29 jaunte

I'm reminded of a recent Krauthammer projection.

"This is a classic example of how little it takes to stir the erogenous zones of the GOP base. You give them a speech about hard work, prayer, a little bit of class war. You wrap it up in the patina of intellectualism."

That is pretty concise. It's base populist jingoism presented by a media whore.

35 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:47:49am

re: #32 PhillyPretzel
the=they opps /

36 allegro  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:49:04am

re: #25 Obdicut

Oh, and here's the requirements for that Custodial Engineer job:

I would be very surprised if there were more than one or two kids in the whole of New York that actually qualified for those jobs.

Those aren't the jobs Newtie-Pie is talking about. He wants to see those poor kids on their knees where he thinks they belong scrubbing floors and toilets. He wants them spending their time taking out the trash, doing as they're told by their betters so they will be well trained for a lifetime of servitude to the master class.

No /

37 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:49:07am

re: #35 PhillyPretzel

the=they opps /

Is that how "opps" is really spelled??

//

38 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:50:34am

re: #37 sattv4u2
I hope so. All of us make mistakes. Bob Ross called them "happy accidents."

39 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:52:29am

re: #38 PhillyPretzel

I hope so. All of us make mistakes. Bob Ross called them "happy accidents."

If thats the case, I'm accident prone!!!

40 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:53:06am

It's just shameful how these rich republicans are pulling the class war shit. Thanks Ronnie Raygun.

41 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:53:28am

PBS has a special about Bob Ross. It is wonderful.

42 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:54:10am

US meets deadline to vacate Pakistan air base

The last U.S. cargo planes were loaded and took off Sunday from the Shamsi Air Base after the Pakistan government ordered the United States to vacate the base by a Dec. 11 deadline.

"Last flight carrying left over US Personnel and Equipment departed Shamsi Base today and the Base has been completely vacated. The control of the Base has been taken over by the Army," the Pakistan Army said in a statement.

After a Nov. 26 NATO airstrike that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, Pakistan immediately shut down NATO supply routes and demanded the U.S. vacate Shamsi Base, which had been used by American forces, including the CIA, for operations to attack militants linked to al-Qaida, the Taliban and Pakistan's home-grown Haqqani network.

43 nines09  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:55:16am

Newt Gingrich lives in world where disgrace is accepted and lies are fact. I do not know who is more reprehensible, him or the audience. Ever I vote GOP again I deserve to be punched in the face for supporting anyone in the same party as this maggot.

44 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:55:46am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

US meets deadline to vacate Pakistan air base

Last one out, turn off the lights

45 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:56:27am

pencil, I love you

46 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 11:56:49am

re: #40 Stanley Sea

It's just shameful how these rich republicans are pulling the class war shit. Thanks Ronnie Raygun.


Q: Can we talk about maybe kinda sorta thinking of raising the tax rate on the highest 1% maybe a few more %?

A: CLASS WARFARE! We need to teach poor kids to work.

47 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:01:40pm

re: #44 sattv4u2

Last one out, turn off the lights

My beloved drones will have to find a new home.

48 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:04:41pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

My beloved drones will have to find a new home.

Coming soon to an undisclosed Afghan location!

49 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:05:03pm

bak. That was something. Bob Ross had and still has many fans. I still get up early on Tuesday and Thursday to watch him at 6:30am.

50 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:05:26pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

My beloved drones will have to find a new home.

I heard one of them ran away from home and ended up in Tehran...

51 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:07:05pm

re: #50 austin_blue

I heard one of them ran away from home and ended up in Tehran...

A prelude to many coming soon to Isfahan ??

52 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:07:18pm

re: #50 austin_blue

I heard one of them ran away from home and ended up in Tehran...

Infected with Creeping Sharia I bet.
/

53 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:09:36pm

re: #51 sattv4u2

A prelude to many coming soon to Isfahan ??

Not quite yet, me thinks.

54 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:10:10pm

Gingrich has peaked too soon ... He will burn brightly for awhile, but ultimately should flame out.

55 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:10:18pm

re: #50 austin_blue

I heard one of them ran away from home and ended up in Tehran...

Free the Drone!

56 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:10:59pm

re: #53 austin_blue

Not quite yet, me thinks.

Shhhhhhhhh!!!!!

AN IRANIAN nuclear facility has been hit by a huge explosion, the second such blast in a month

57 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:11:13pm

I should be shoveling dirt today but I've come down with a sudden case of hangover.

58 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:11:28pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I should be shoveling dirt today but I've come down with a sudden case of hangover.

Kill someone last night?

59 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:12:03pm

re: #58 sattv4u2
Jim Beam?

60 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:12:57pm

I ate a lot of turkey last night. Woke up pointing at Mecca. Oh crap..

61 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:13:16pm

re: #58 sattv4u2

Kill someone last night?

I can't even find my bag of lime.

62 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:13:37pm

re: #60 BigPapa

I ate a lot of turkey last night. Woke up pointing at Mecca. Oh crap..

Well,, at least we know what part of you was pointing there!!

63 bratwurst  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:13:40pm

re: #54 _RememberTonyC

Gingrich has peaked too soon ... He will burn brightly for awhile, but ultimately should flame out.

I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong...the others peaked WAY too soon, Newt may have hit it just about right. If he can beat the odds and edge Mitt in NH (not likely but he's certainly making inroads) he will clinch the nomination by the end of January.

64 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:16:00pm

re: #63 bratwurst

I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong...the others peaked WAY too soon, Newt may have hit it just about right. If he can beat the odds and edge Mitt in NH (not likely but he's certainly making inroads) he will clinch the nomination by the end of January.

Romney is the only GOP hope in the general election. If the Republicans want a second Obama administration, they'll nominate someone like Newt.

65 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:16:50pm

And Tom Brady is STILL a God.

66 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:17:36pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

I can't even find my bag of lime.

Look inside your coconut!

67 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:17:48pm

re: #65 _RememberTonyC

And Tom Brady is STILL a God.

that was a big ass play

68 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:18:03pm

re: #65 _RememberTonyC

And Tom Brady is STILL a God.

Did you see the catch/ run Gronk made in the 1st half??

69 bratwurst  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:19:22pm

re: #64 _RememberTonyC

Romney is the only GOP hope in the general election. If the Republicans want a second Obama administration, they'll nominate someone like Newt.

I am not disputing this at all. I just see a strong self-destructive streak (lead by the titular party head, Rush Limbaugh) driving this huge swing toward Newt. We are really down to crunch time here and Mitt almost certainly hurt himself last night.

70 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:19:42pm

The Chinese Troops in America!

71 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:19:43pm

re: #67 albusteve

that was a big ass play

Second best QB in the NFL behind Aaron Rodgers ... Married to Giselle Bundchen ... Three Super Bowls ... Need I say more?

72 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:21:03pm

re: #68 sattv4u2

Did you see the catch/ run Gronk made in the 1st half??

Of course ... Gronk could be an MVP Candidate playing a position that never produces one.

73 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:21:13pm

re: #63 bratwurst

I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong...the others peaked WAY too soon, Newt may have hit it just about right. If he can beat the odds and edge Mitt in NH (not likely but he's certainly making inroads) he will clinch the nomination by the end of January.

Fig takes Iowa, Mittens takes NH. Now, South Carolina will be interesting....

If Mittens can't get traction in the south, he can't win the National. There are just a bunch of ol' boys down here who will not vote Mormon. (See Al Smith vs. Hoover in Texas in 1928. Hoover won. A republican didn't win again in Texas until 1980. Al was a Papist.).

74 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:23:52pm

re: #71 _RememberTonyC

Second best QB in the NFL behind Aaron Rodgers ... Married to Giselle Bundchen ... Three Super Bowls ... Need I say more?

no

75 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:25:17pm

re: #69 bratwurst

IWe are really down to crunch time here and Mitt almost certainly hurt himself last night.

Mitt's $10,000 Gaffe could cost us all.

76 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:26:42pm

re: #75 BigPapa

Mitt's $10,000 Gaffe could cost us all.

So out of touch that was.

77 recusancy  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:27:26pm

re: #54 _RememberTonyC

Gingrich has peaked too soon ... He will burn brightly for awhile, but ultimately should flame out.

Umm... Iowa is only 3 weeks away.

78 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:28:45pm

re: #75 BigPapa

Mitt's $10,000 Gaffe could cost us all.

I thought liberals wanted Newt to win the nomination?

79 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:30:58pm

re: #78 albusteve

I will be ashamed for my country and my countrymen if Newt wins a single primary.

80 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:31:23pm

re: #78 albusteve

I thought liberals wanted Newt to win the nomination?

Ha! As if any of the others would be any less entertaining...

81 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:32:35pm

re: #78 albusteve

I thought liberals wanted Newt to win the nomination?

I think he's scary. Not based on his winning possibility, but the fact that that's what we may end up with 50% of the population voting for. We've lost our minds.

82 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:33:29pm

i still say smiley oatmeal will get the nomination in the end

the republican party can't be suicidal enough to completely throw it away

83 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:35:51pm

re: #81 Stanley Sea

I think he's scary. Not based on his winning possibility, but the fact that that's what we may end up with 50% of the population voting for. We've lost our minds.

It is hard for me to believe ole Newt is back. How the hell did he ever morph into someone who's still relevant?

84 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:35:55pm

re: #78 albusteve

I thought liberals wanted Newt to win the nomination?

I don't see a real diff. between Newt and Romney.

85 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:36:21pm

re: #83 iceweasel

It is hard for me to believe ole Newt is back. How the hell did he ever morph into someone who's still relevant?

That's what dumbfounds me. Like a Jack-in-the-box he is.

86 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:36:33pm

re: #54 _RememberTonyC

Gingrich has peaked too soon ... He will burn brightly for awhile, but ultimately should flame out.

Actually, I think he is peaking at just the right time. If he wins Iowa, he could sweep the January primaries, and it'll be all over.

87 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:36:39pm

re: #78 albusteve

I thought liberals wanted Newt to win the nomination?

Some do. There is a thought that Obama will have an easier time defeating Gingrich. I somewhat believe that.

But there is a risk he could win. I'm reminded by that every time I read the cesspools called Comment Sections on websites. There are millions of buffoons that will vote for Gingrich no matter what.

I'd rather have Mitt run. He does have a better chance of defeating Obama, but if he did win I think he's not as bad as Gingrich.

88 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:37:19pm

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

I don't see a real diff. between Newt and Romney.

exactly my thought...I'm seriously ho hum about the whole thing....I don't see the drama

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:37:22pm

re: #87 BigPapa

I'd rather have Mitt run. He does have a better chance of defeating Obama, but if he did win I think he's not as bad as Gingrich.

In what way?

90 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:38:05pm

I am going to an event hosted by former Congressman Tom Davis who teaches here in which he's going to discuss the election. I want to ask him how a primary that has been very anti Washington in tone has a former speaker and guy elected in the 70's as its frontrunner. It's weird though certainly not unique.

91 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:38:54pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

In what way?

Well, we don't actually have a clue what Mitt Romney thinks or believes or what sorts of policy positions he'd advance. So he might be okay. Hell, he might be better than Obama! Or Jesus!

92 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:39:06pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

In what way?

I think alot of people see Mitt as being more socially moderate than Newt. Not sure really since both guys have inconsistency probs.

93 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:40:10pm

re: #91 erik_t

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Both Mitt and Newt have history of flip-flopping between moderation and absolute crazy. The difference between them is purely stylistical and marginal.

94 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:41:04pm

re: #93 Sergey Romanov

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Both Mitt and Newt have history of flip-flopping between moderation and absolute crazy. The difference between them is purely stylistical and marginal.

I don't disagree actually with this.

95 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:41:51pm

re: #83 iceweasel

It is hard for me to believe ole Newt is back. How the hell did he ever morph into someone who's still relevant?

Cause there's no one else! Pitiful!

96 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:43:17pm

someone will get elected....then congress will throw them in chains and we'll stumble into the future as if they don't exist...probably as good a way as any

97 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:44:28pm

I'm changing my nic to MrDownbeet

98 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:45:53pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

In what way?

I suspect Gingrich is more of an 'American exceptionalist' than Romney, not in a good way.

I also think he's more Galtian than Romney.

99 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:45:59pm

re: #97 albusteve

I'm changing my nic to MrDownbeet

Why,,, you like borscht???

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:47:31pm

re: #98 BigPapa

Well, I see those as largely stylistic. If any of them come to power, these differences won't matter since the situation itself will be bad enough.

101 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:48:56pm

re: #77 recusancy

Umm... Iowa is only 3 weeks away.

I know

102 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:48:58pm

re: #99 sattv4u2

Why,,, you like borscht???

never drove one

103 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:50:59pm

re: #77 recusancy

Umm... Iowa is only 3 weeks away.

re: #101 _RememberTonyC

I know

Not for me

If I drive straight through I can make it in 18 hours!!!

104 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:51:09pm

Well made borscht is yummy. Dollop of sour cream, a little ice cold Monopolova, outstanding!

105 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:52:22pm

re: #104 austin_blue
Yes it is good. :)

106 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:52:50pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

re: #101 _RememberTonyC

Not for me

If I drive straight through I can make it in 18 hours!!!

Boston drivers ...

107 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:53:00pm

re: #104 austin_blue

Well made borscht is yummy. Dollop of sour cream, a little ice cold Monopolova, outstanding!

pink soup is for sissies

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:53:14pm

re: #104 austin_blue

Well made borscht is yummy. Dollop of sour cream, a little ice cold Monopolova, outstanding!

Hear, hear!

109 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:53:44pm

re: #108 Sergey Romanov

Hear, hear!

Where ,, where???

110 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:54:25pm

re: #109 sattv4u2

Where ,, where???

Nom, nom!

111 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:54:58pm

re: #110 Sergey Romanov

Nom, nom!

A beet, by any other nom, is still a beet

112 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:55:09pm

re: #82 engineer dog

i still say smiley oatmeal will get the nomination in the end

the republican party can't be suicidal enough to completely throw it away

People have been saying the bolded part for a few years now and have continually been proven wrong.

113 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:55:38pm

re: #100 Sergey Romanov

Well, I see those as largely stylistic. If any of them come to power, these differences won't matter since the situation itself will be bad enough.

I see Romney as the -Lite version of all the candidates we've been watching but don't know if I can argue with you on your point.

114 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:55:50pm

re: #112 oaktree

People have been saying the bolded part for a few years now and have continually been proven wrong.

yup...wax on

115 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:56:01pm

re: #111 sattv4u2

A beet, by any other nom, is still a beet

Um, yeah. Caviar is caviar. Egg is egg. Beet is beet. What's your point?

116 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:56:38pm

re: #111 sattv4u2

A beet, by any other nom, is still a beet

Beethoven?

Just a coincidence?

117 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:56:40pm

re: #112 oaktree

People have been saying the bolded part for a few years now and have continually been proven wrong.

Might call it the O'Donnell Effect.

118 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:57:18pm

re: #113 BigPapa

Huntsman is lite. Romney is in full-on psycho mode. His only redeeming quality is his old moderate hat, but I think he's lost it a long time ago.

119 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:57:23pm

re: #115 Sergey Romanov

Um, yeah. Caviar is caviar. Egg is egg. Beet is beet. What's your point?

I don't want my caviar, eggs OR beets pointing at me

120 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:57:23pm

Wash is giving NE all they can handle

121 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:57:51pm

re: #115 Sergey Romanov

Um, yeah. Caviar is caviar. Egg is egg. Beet is beet. What's your point?

You have to remember that beets aren't common in American diet. I've never had borscht before. My favorite soup has gotta be the potato leek soup.

122 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:58:00pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

I don't want my caviar, eggs OR beets pointing at me

Then stop doing LSD :P

123 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:58:45pm

re: #122 Sergey Romanov

Then stop doing LSD :P

I once has a Pontiac LSD

Nice ride!

124 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:58:48pm

re: #120 albusteve

Wash is giving NE all they can handle

NE's secondary is awful but good for the Skins for giving those diehards something fun this Sunday.

125 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:58:50pm

re: #121 HappyWarrior

They aren't common, but they aren't exotic-tasting either. I mean, it's not like they're thousand-year-old eggs or something.

126 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:59:39pm

re: #119 sattv4u2

I don't want my caviar, eggs OR beets pointing at me

How do you "point" caviar at someone? It's spherical!

;)

127 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 12:59:45pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

NE's secondary is awful but good for the Skins for giving those diehards something fun this Sunday.

Wash has run the ball for over 160...jus sayin

128 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:00:39pm

re: #126 oaktree
You group them together in a arrow shaped clump. >

129 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:00:55pm

re: #127 albusteve

Wash has run the ball for over 160...jus sayin

Well their D stinks all around then. Gonna hurt them in the playoffs.

130 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:01:01pm

re: #126 oaktree

How do you "point" caviar at someone? It's spherical!

;)

Just make them into a pyramid

Image: caviar.jpg

131 Sionainn  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:01:28pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

pencil, I love you

See what happens when we repeal DADT?

/

132 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:01:41pm

re: #128 PhillyPretzel

You group them together in a arrow shaped clump. >

Ah, like being some sort of autonomous collective.

133 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:02:01pm

re: #125 Sergey Romanov

They aren't common, but they aren't exotic-tasting either. I mean, it's not like they're thousand-year-old eggs or something.

True that. Need to try it some time. Borscht this is.

134 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:02:20pm

re: #121 HappyWarrior

You have to remember that beets aren't common in American diet. I've never had borscht before. My favorite soup has gotta be the potato leek soup.

Good beef stock, caramelized onion, shredded beet and cabbage. Sour cream, black bread, butter, oh my. Great stuff.

135 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:02:58pm

re: #33 HappyWarrior

Right wing politicians have constructed a myth that they sell to their base that union workers are lazy. This is a bullshit lie. Two of my great grandfathers were unionized coal miners and many of their sons were unionized steel workers. These guys were poor but they worked their asses off to give their family a better life.

True. And in many areas today, such as coal mines and steel mills, unions still have an incredibly important role to play. However, many unions also shy away from any sort of meritocracy. An environment where rewards are given solely on the basis of seniority is ripe for exploitation by those who don't want to do their fair share.

136 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:03:57pm

re: #118 Sergey Romanov

Huntsman is lite. Romney is in full-on psycho mode. His only redeeming quality is his old moderate hat, but I think he's lost it a long time ago.

I'm still believing in his old moderate hat. I sense that some of his recent rhetoric is posturing to compete with the nutters.... I hope that is the case.

As I'm considering your question, I'm thinking that Gingrich is a better candidate than Perry or Bachmann, so at least last night could be considered progress.

137 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:04:10pm

Indy Colts
0 for 2011

138 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:04:32pm

re: #137 sattv4u2

Indy Colts
0 for 2011

Suck for Luck!

139 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:04:33pm

re: #82 engineer dog

i still say smiley oatmeal will get the nomination in the end

the republican party can't be suicidal enough to completely throw it away

Remember, the Base lives in an alternative universe, in which Gingrich is more electable than Romney, and Romney is Obama-lite.

140 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:04:57pm

re: #135 Aceofwhat?

True. And in many areas today, such as coal mines and steel mills, unions still have an incredibly important role to play. However, many unions also shy away from any sort of meritocracy. An environment where rewards are given solely on the basis of who has hung on to their job the longest is ripe for exploitation by those who don't want to do their fair share.

Charles and She Who Must Be Obeyed are in the same union.

141 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:05:11pm

re: #127 albusteve

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Well their D stinks. Gonna hurt them in the playoffs.

And ,, just as things are dire ,,,,, GAME !!!

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:05:33pm

Interesting. In Transnistria Kremlin's candidate also lost. That's not "good" or "bad", since for the current President Smirnov this will be the fifth term. But telling.

143 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:06:23pm

re: #140 austin_blue

Charles and She Who Must Be Obeyed are in the same union.

Which one is that? (i feel like the answer should be incredibly obvious to me but i have NFL RedZone on in the background...probably not my sharpest hour right now)

144 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:06:26pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Undercover police spied on protesters at Occupy LA

They found pictures of Che Guevara as well, proving every single Occupier is a Communist Tool bent on overthrowing the American, Christian Way of Life™.

///

145 Lidane  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:06:40pm

re: #83 iceweasel

It is hard for me to believe ole Newt is back. How the hell did he ever morph into someone who's still relevant?

I can't figure that out either. The Republicans are the ones who tossed him aside and marginalized him for over a decade because he's a raging asshole and even they know it. Now he's the Not Romney. WTF.

146 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:06:57pm

re: #143 Aceofwhat?

Which one is that? (i feel like the answer should be incredibly obvious to me but i have NFL RedZone on in the background...probably not my sharpest hour right now)

Like you need an excuse !!!!

///

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:08:04pm

re: #145 Lidane

I can't figure that out either. The Republicans are the ones who tossed him aside and marginalized him for over a decade because he's a raging asshole and even they know it. Now he's the Not Romney. WTF.

Well, that's the answer right there. That, and the chain of historical accidents that disabled the other candidates (starting with Allen and Sanford...).

148 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:08:46pm

re: #145 Lidane

I can't figure that out either. The Republicans are the ones who tossed him aside and marginalized him for over a decade because he's a raging asshole and even they know it. Now he's the Not Romney. WTF.

LOL!

149 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:09:11pm

re: #145 Lidane

I can't figure that out either. The Republicans are the ones who tossed him aside and marginalized him for over a decade because he's a raging asshole and even they know it. Now he's the Not Romney. WTF.

In case you missed it, election trivia:

If Mittens can't get traction in the south, he can't win the National. There are just a bunch of ol' boys down here who will not vote Mormon. (See Al Smith vs. Hoover in Texas in 1928. Hoover won. A republican didn't win again in Texas until 1980. Al was a Papist.).

150 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:09:35pm

re: #147 Sergey Romanov

Well, that's the answer right there. That, and a chain of historical accidents that disabled the other candidates (starting with Allen and Sanford...).

George Allen? He was doomed for the 2008 race. He's making a small comeback here. Running against Tim Kaine in Virginia and I hope he loses. Guy is a jerk.

151 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:10:05pm

Patriots survive ... They are one Boston team that constantly OVER delivers for their fans.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:10:08pm

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Sure, because of macaca. If not for that?

153 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:10:08pm

re: #146 sattv4u2

Like you need an excuse !!!

///

It gets better - i'm also sitting on the couch in shorts. I'm about 100lbs of spare tire away from an outstanding stereotype...

154 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:10:38pm

re: #143 Aceofwhat?

Which one is that? (i feel like the answer should be incredibly obvious to me but i have NFL RedZone on in the background...probably not my sharpest hour right now)

American Federation of Musicians.

155 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:10:45pm

re: #145 Lidane

I can't figure that out either. The Republicans are the ones who tossed him aside and marginalized him for over a decade because he's a raging asshole and even they know it. Now he's the Not Romney. WTF.

Sheer desperation. They need somebody, anybody, to fill the "Not Romney" spot. Bachmann's loony, Perry's conservatism has been found wanting, Santorum wouldn't be out of place dressed as a Puritan, and they ideologically love Paul but he scares the ever-loving shit out of everybody else.

156 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:11:17pm

re: #153 Aceofwhat?

It gets better - i'm also sitting on the couch in shorts. I'm about 100lbs of spare tire away from an outstanding stereotype...

Stay away from the borscht. Unless you put LOTS of sour cream in it, it's not fattening!!

157 Lidane  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:11:36pm

re: #149 austin_blue

In case you missed it, election trivia:

If Mittens can't get traction in the south, he can't win the National. There are just a bunch of ol' boys down here who will not vote Mormon. (See Al Smith vs. Hoover in Texas in 1928. Hoover won. A republican didn't win again in Texas until 1980. Al was a Papist.).

Well yeah. They won't vote for a Mormon because in the evangelical South, Mormons are a half-step above Satanists. I know that. I just can't wrap my head at just how desperate the GOP are to avoid Romney that they'd make Newt Gingrich -- a man they hate and know is a raging asshole -- relevant and the nominee.

It's a really sad statement about the GOP.

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:11:53pm

re: #155 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They love Paul "watching" the Fed. They don't love his foreign policy.

159 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:12:09pm

re: #149 austin_blue

In case you missed it, election trivia:

If Mittens can't get traction in the south, he can't win the National. There are just a bunch of ol' boys down here who will not vote Mormon. (See Al Smith vs. Hoover in Texas in 1928. Hoover won. A republican didn't win again in Texas until 1980. Al was a Papist.).

I'm not disputing this but more incredulous.

They would vote for a black liberal over a Mormon, or just not vote at all?

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:12:56pm

re: #159 BigPapa

> They would vote for a black liberal over a Mormon

Maybe, but not Obama.

161 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:12:58pm

re: #158 Sergey Romanov

They love Paul "watching" the Fed. They're don't love his foreign policy.

Yep, pretty much. When Paul natters on about the Fed, about dismantling the government, and so forth, they love it. But then he starts talking tearing down the military and abandoning Israel and they go "Shit, he's serious!"

162 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:13:34pm

re: #155 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sheer desperation. They need somebody, anybody, to fill the "Not Romney" spot. Bachmann's loony, Perry's conservatism has been found wanting, Santorum wouldn't be out of place dressed as a Puritan, and they ideologically love Paul but he scares the ever-loving shit out of everybody else.

Paul may be Romney's best hope now. If Paul can split the Base in Iowa, Romney might squeak through to a win, then gather momentum by winning NH. If Romney can't win Iowa, he'd be better off if Paul wins there than Gingrich. Paul is supposed to have a great operation in Iowa, so he should be able to get his bots to the caucuses even in a blizzard.

163 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:13:55pm

re: #154 austin_blue

American Federation of Musicians.

Very different. It's technically a union but in practice it's a very different enterprise when a bunch of independent producers of a good or service unionize than when salaried employees unionize. The independent producer still needs to create a product of value in order to be compensated.

164 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:14:03pm

I think Obama-hatred will prevail over Mormon-hatred.

165 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:14:03pm

re: #157 Lidane

Well yeah. They won't vote for a Mormon because in the evangelical South, Mormons are a half-step above Satanists. I know that. I just can't wrap my head at just how desperate the GOP are to avoid Romney that they'd make Newt Gingrich -- a man they hate and know is a raging asshole -- relevant and the nominee.

It's a really sad statement about the GOP.

Yeah--my neighbors are panting to clasp a Protestant-turned-Catholic to their hearts.

166 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:14:05pm

re: #152 Sergey Romanov

Sure, because of macaca. If not for that?

It was more than just that. Webb ran a good campaign too. But yeah the macaca comment was stupid and his defenders can cry all they want but the fact was the dipshit implied the kid was not a real Virginian despite being more Virginian than George himself. That more than the slur upset me because I'm from the part of Va where the kid is from and we're proud of our cultural diversity. But Allen was trying to pander to a crowd that doesn't see non-Whites as real Virginians and Americans.

167 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:14:35pm

Titans are giving the Saints all they can handle now!

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:15:14pm

re: #167 sattv4u2

Titans are giving the Saints all they can handle now!

The Latter-Day Saints? /

169 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:15:19pm

AND

Minny/ Detroit = good finish

170 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:15:38pm

re: #168 Sergey Romanov

The Latter-Day Saints? /

No,, the game started at 1 p.m.!!!

171 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:15:55pm

re: #28 SpaceJesus

america's republicans need a time out

Nap time. People say deranged shit when sleep deprived.

172 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:16:27pm

Gosh you football nerds freak me out (it's football, right? Not baseball or some other funny sport).

Let's drown this madness in Skyrim-talk.

173 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:16:28pm

re: #162 aagcobb

Paul may be Romney's best hope now. If Paul can split the Base in Iowa, Romney might squeak through to a win, then gather momentum by winning NH. If Romney can't win Iowa, he'd be better off if Paul wins there than Gingrich. Paul is supposed to have a great operation in Iowa, so he should be able to get his bots to the caucuses even in a blizzard.

Weird.

If I believe that it would be best for Romney to run against Obama because he's not too whacked out, then I am hoping for PaulBots to come save us in Iowa.

(Maniacal laugh punctuated with a little gag reflex on the end)

174 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:16:57pm

re: #157 Lidane

I just can't wrap my head at just how desperate the GOP are to avoid Romney that they'd make Newt Gingrich -- a man they hate and know is a raging asshole -- relevant and the nominee.

In fairness, about 80% of both parties qualify for that particular label. It's sad.

175 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:17:14pm

re: #157 Lidane

Well yeah. They won't vote for a Mormon because in the evangelical South, Mormons are a half-step above Satanists. I know that. I just can't wrap my head at just how desperate the GOP are to avoid Romney that they'd make Newt Gingrich -- a man they hate and know is a raging asshole -- relevant and the nominee.

It's a really sad statement about the GOP.

True, but he's the only non-Mormon in this clown conclave that can clearly express an idea that the Great Unwashed can understand. Many of the ideas may be batshit, but at least they are understandable.re: #159 BigPapa

I'm not disputing this but more incredulous.

They would vote for a black liberal over a Mormon, or just not vote at all?

Stay home. It's what happened in '28.

176 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:17:58pm

re: #172 Sergey Romanov

Gosh you football nerds freak me out (it's football, right? Not baseball or some other funny sport).

Let's drown this madness in Skyrim-talk.

I'm down. Where are you in the story/character progression?

177 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:17:58pm

If Romney gets the nomination, he will be somewhat freer to show his more moderate positions. Unlike Gingrich, who is peaking now, Romney will be a late bloomer whose best days are still ahead of him. Mitt will be spending some TV money against Gingrich soon. And there is plenty of ammo to go in those messages.

178 right_wing2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:18:18pm

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

179 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:18:48pm

re: #162 aagcobb

Paul may be Romney's best hope now. If Paul can split the Base in Iowa, Romney might squeak through to a win, then gather momentum by winning NH. If Romney can't win Iowa, he'd be better off if Paul wins there than Gingrich. Paul is supposed to have a great operation in Iowa, so he should be able to get his bots to the caucuses even in a blizzard.

In my less lucid moments, I actually cheer on the idea of a Paul nomination. Nothing would tickle me pink more than having the GOP's Crazy Uncle so publicly go down in flames on Election Day. It would be exactly what was needed to break the death grip that libertarians currently have on the party's helm and would finally serve as a national referendum on the Tea Party at large.

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:19:46pm

re: #176 Aceofwhat?

I'm down. Where are you in the story/character progression?

I've explored most of the Southern Skyrim and finally got to those Windhelm racists. Plan to destroy the Dark Brotherhood (I'm goody-two-shoes). Level still somewhere in mid-20s. I'm progressing slowly, trying every side-quest.

181 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:19:54pm

re: #178 right_wing2

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

Lotta jobs required to build that big pipeline that he "deferred". But hell, it's not like we're still in a recession or anything, right?

182 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:20:04pm

re: #112 oaktree

People have been saying the bolded part for a few years now and have continually been proven wrong.

i can only hope you are right!

183 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:20:12pm

The dark ages really weren't all that dark...if you were born into the right clan.

184 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:20:33pm

re: #178 right_wing2

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

As a Canadian, I'd like you to enlighten me on why you believe this.

185 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:20:48pm

re: #178 right_wing2

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

Photo evidence shows otherwise...
Image: inaugural_roll_h_01.jpg

186 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:21:08pm

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

I've explored most of the Southern Skyrim and finally got to those Windhelm racists. Plan to destroy the Dark Brotherhood (I'm goody-two-shoes). Level still somewhere in mid-20s. I'm progressing slowly, trying every side-quest.

You're going to destroy the Dark Brotherhood?

Serg, I don't think we can be friends anymore.

///

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:21:36pm

re: #186 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You're going to destroy the Dark Brotherhood?

Serg, I don't think we can be friends anymore.

///

I promise to join them the second time I play!

188 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:21:52pm

re: #184 Romantic Heretic

As a Canadian, I'd like you to enlighten me on why you believe this.

It has nothing to do with Molson or LaBatts, so you wouldn't understand,,, eh, ya hoser!!!

///

189 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:22:12pm

re: #178 right_wing2

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

Our armed forces returning from Iraq would disagree with you. You should also ask Osama bin Laden if he thinks Obama is weak.

190 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:22:44pm

re: #178 right_wing2

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

Think of the R's in the House as cats. You try to lead them.

191 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:23:06pm

re: #178 right_wing2

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

As a whole the Republicans are fucking nutters that reinforce the American Taliban meme.

And Obama will have 4 years as President next election. That qualifies him for 4 more years.

So your statement seems rather strange.

192 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:23:15pm

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

I've explored most of the Southern Skyrim and finally got to those Windhelm racists. Plan to destroy the Dark Brotherhood (I'm goody-two-shoes). Level still somewhere in mid-20s. I'm progressing slowly, trying every side-quest.

I'm usually a goody, too, but I joined the DB. Couldn't help myself. I'm just past level 50. Finally joined the Stormcloaks. It's still a little weird that the stormtroopers are fighting the Empire...need to keep my universes straight!

193 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:23:15pm

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

I promise to join them the second time I play!

Nah, it's cool. I think the whole lack of moral choice system, ala Fallout, has left me feeling freer to contemplate joining groups like the Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild. It's brought out my inner capitalist to rob and kill random NPCs for gold and valuable trinkets.

194 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:23:44pm

re: #179 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

In my less lucid moments, I actually cheer on the idea of a Paul nomination. Nothing would tickle me pink more than having the GOP's Crazy Uncle so publicly go down in flames on Election Day. It would be exactly what was needed to break the death grip that libertarians currently have on the party's helm and would finally serve as a national referendum on the Tea Party at large.

Paul's consistency will do him in. He really believes in a small federal government, including the military, and he won't give unconditional support for Israel.

195 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:23:57pm

re: #189 darthstar

Our armed forces returning from Iraq would disagree with you. You should also ask Osama bin Laden if he thinks Obama is weak.

weak

196 right_wing2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:24:26pm

re: #184 Romantic Heretic

Simple. I look at the direction we've taken in the last few years, since he was elected. Bush was nothing to write home about (either one of them), and McCain was pathetic. But Obama makes even Jimmy Carter look marginally competent.

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Just because he is leading a parade doesn't mean he's qualified! Look at our last few Presidents.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:24:36pm

re: #192 Aceofwhat?

Heh. Well, I'm with the Empire this time. Haven't joined the Legion yet, but will.

198 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:25:17pm

re: #194 aagcobb

Paul's consistency will do him in. He really believes in a small federal government, including the military, and he won't give unconditional support for Israel.

And that's what would turn the GOP's hair white, the idea that they have a candidate who will not deviate, who will not moderate, who will stick to his beliefs no matter how much they try to steer him otherwise.

It's almost a Frankenstein moment, watching the monster turn on its master.

199 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:25:32pm

OK I'm playing hardball to stop this serious football -> Skyrim progression.

Here's a cute kid video.

200 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:25:54pm

re: #188 sattv4u2

LaBatts 50 or Blue?

201 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:26:25pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

It was more than just that. Webb ran a good campaign too. But yeah the macaca comment was stupid and his defenders can cry all they want but the fact was the dipshit implied the kid was not a real Virginian despite being more Virginian than George himself. That more than the slur upset me because I'm from the part of Va where the kid is from and we're proud of our cultural diversity. But Allen was trying to pander to a crowd that doesn't see non-Whites as real Virginians and Americans.

He's a racist that let the mask slip. He has not changed. That's enough for me. But oh the short memories these days, unless were talking Vietnam Nam & Jane fucking Fonda. Then the memory is incredibly impressive.

202 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:26:30pm

re: #197 Sergey Romanov

Heh. Well, I'm with the Empire this time. Haven't joined the Legion yet, but will.

I'm looking to join the Legion as well. It's funny, but I actually really haven't been progressing much on either of the main storylines. Every time I think I might, I realize "Wait, my pocket's feeling a little light, time to go questing again."

203 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:26:37pm

You're a mean one, Newt Gingrich

204 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:26:53pm

re: #196 right_wing2

you mean the economy, right?


That direction?

I wasn't aware Obama was a white guy from TexasConnecticut, wow, that does change things

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:26:59pm

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Nah, it's cool. I think the whole lack of moral choice system, ala Fallout, has left me feeling freer to contemplate joining groups like the Brotherhood and the Thieves Guild. It's brought out my inner capitalist to rob and kill random NPCs for gold and valuable trinkets.

Heheheh.

The damn system is in my head! But then, when I will play the other story line, I'll join both; I think they're more compatible with being with the Stormcloaks.

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:27:32pm
207 right_wing2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:27:41pm

Like I said, I don't like the choices the Republicans are giving us this time around. But there's no way on earth I would ever support Obama.

208 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:28:13pm

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anybody need an ipad? I can get you one cheap.

Well, I have been short on Christmas present ideas...

209 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:28:56pm

re: #207 right_wing2

Of course not, hahaha

because you're that guy

don't worry, I have a few of them in my extended family, I know that guy

210 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:28:57pm

re: #191 BigPapa

As a whole the Republicans are fucking nutters that reinforce the American Taliban meme.

And Obama will have 4 years as President next election. That qualifies him for 4 more years.

So your statement seems rather strange.

Wait...you don't have to be American to lead a parade?
//

211 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:29:03pm

re: #196 right_wing2

Simple. I look at the direction we've taken in the last few years, since he was elected.

Uh.

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:29:07pm

re: #203 Alouette

Classy.

213 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:29:17pm

re: #200 darthstar

LaBatts 50 or Blue?

I was a little blue when I turned 50

Ya get used to it!

214 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:30:01pm

re: #207 right_wing2

Like I said, I don't like the choices the Republicans are giving us this time around. But there's no way on earth I would ever support Obama.

I really really don't like the choices the Republicans are giving us this time. There's no way on earth I can see supporting them over Obama.

Regards,

20 year GOP Voter

215 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:30:46pm

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anybody need an ipad? I can get you one cheap.

I'm using one of the complimentary iPads at the club right now... I hate these fckin' things.

216 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:31:07pm

re: #201 Stanley Sea

He's a racist that let the mask slip. He has not changed. That's enough for me. But oh the short memories these days, unless were talking Vietnam Nam & Jane fucking Fonda. Then the memory is incredibly impressive.

He's always had a bigot streak in him yep.

217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:31:35pm

re: #215 darthstar

I'm using one of the complimentary iPads at the club right now... I hate these fckin' things.

Scratching you off my prospect list...

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:31:58pm

re: #215 darthstar


I like laptops, with actual keys, it's a tactile thing

the ipad would be great as a music toy, lots of cool touch-sensitive music-making apps for it, but typing on it? OH GOD

219 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:32:03pm

re: #188 sattv4u2

It has nothing to do with Molson or LaBatts, so you wouldn't understand,,, eh, ya hoser!!!

///

I refuse to drink either. Loathsome stuff. On par with Budweiser and Pabst Blue Ribbon. I prefer this brewery's products.

I also dislike hockey.

Don't tell anyone.

220 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:32:18pm

re: #215 darthstar

I'm using one of the complimentary iPads at the club right now... I hate these fckin' things.

Are you getting swanky on me?

221 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:32:23pm

re: #215 darthstar

I'm using one of the complimentary iPads at the club right now... I hate these fckin' things.

Won't even let me spell fuck in' right...Aaagh! It's one fuckin' word! Got it!

222 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:32:31pm

re: #207 right_wing2

Like I said, I don't like the choices the Republicans are giving us this time around. But there's no way on earth I would ever support Obama.

Then who do you support? Let's face it, no matter how you slice it, the 2012 elections are giant shit sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite. While I didn't vote for Obama in '08, he has surprised me on more than a few things; I do not see any credible, sane candidates on the GOP side, so it's basically the devil you know to an extent.

223 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:32:45pm

re: #214 BigPapa

I really really don't like the choices the Republicans are giving us this time. There's no way on earth I can see supporting them over Obama.

Regards,

20 year GOP Voter

A-fucking-men. I may not think Obama's the greatest choice, I honestly think he's a bit lacking, but nothing I've seen the GOP do in the last 3 years has convinced me that they should be allowed within 500 feet of the White House.

224 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:32:58pm

re: #218 WindUpBird

I like laptops, with actual keys, it's a tactile thing

the ipad would be great as a music toy, lots of cool touch-sensitive music-making apps for it, but typing on it? OH GOD

It is a toy.

225 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:33:14pm

re: #219 Romantic Heretic

when it comes to canadian beer, I drink me a lot of Unibroue *_*

Quebec=little belgium, as far as beer is concerned

226 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:34:26pm

re: #224 darthstar

It is a toy.

I bought one a few weeks ago, messed around with it and gave it away....didn't do anything for me, I bought it to travel with

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:34:45pm

re: #202 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm looking to join the Legion as well. It's funny, but I actually really haven't been progressing much on either of the main storylines. Every time I think I might, I realize "Wait, my pocket's feeling a little light, time to go questing again."

Wait. Pocket feeling light? Is there an secret bar with blackjack and hookers? Because I have lots of cash and mostly don't spend it.

228 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:35:38pm

re: #215 darthstar

I'm using one of the complimentary iPads at the club right now... I hate these fckin' things.

elitist!

229 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:36:06pm

re: #223 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A-fucking-men. I may not think Obama's the greatest choice, I honestly think he's a bit lacking, but nothing I've seen the GOP do in the last 3 years has convinced me that they should be allowed within 500 feet of the White House.

Cuthulu 2012. Why settle for the lesser of two evils?

230 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:36:10pm

re: #227 Sergey Romanov

Wait. Pocket feeling light? Is there an secret bar with blackjack and hookers? Because I have lots of cash and mostly don't spend it.

I just plunked down 25,000 gold for a house in Solitude. Now working on 8,000 for the one in Markarth. And that's not counting the nicer luxuries, like beds...and cookwear...and alchemy stations...

231 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:36:29pm

re: #196 right_wing2

Simple. I look at the direction we've taken in the last few years, since he was elected. Bush was nothing to write home about (either one of them), and McCain was pathetic. But Obama makes even Jimmy Carter look marginally competent.

I was asking what particular actions you find objectionable that show he lacks leadership ability. Also, what do you think he should have done.

Sorry, but these blanket statements with no backing don't cut it with me.

232 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:37:09pm

re: #220 Aceofwhat?

Are you getting swanky on me?

Swimming today, then lunch. Did a thousand yards again. Trying to stay in shape and lose weight. Club membership was wife's idea but now that we use it (and we have five clubs to choose from), I think it's worth every dollar.

233 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:37:13pm

re: #231 Romantic Heretic

I was asking what particular actions you find objectionable that show he lacks leadership ability. Also, what do you think he should have done.

Sorry, but these blanket statements with no backing don't cut it with me.

it's just rw talk radio stuff all the way down

234 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:37:14pm

re: #227 Sergey Romanov

Wait. Pocket feeling light? Is there an secret bar with blackjack and hookers? Because I have lots of cash and mostly don't spend it.

Right - i've started to leave a lot of valuable trinkets on the ground where I found them because with three houses and 150k in gold, I don't know why I need more gold. I mostly just trade valuables now to boost my Speech ability.

235 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:37:26pm

re: #228 sattv4u2

elitist!

he's at the Boyz Bath Haus

236 darthstar  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:38:22pm

...okay...gotta run.

Laters

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:38:23pm

re: #230 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I just plunked down 25,000 gold for a house in Solitude. Now working on 8,000 for the one in Markarth. And that's not counting the nicer luxuries, like beds...and cookwear...and alchemy stations...

Why do you need all that, when you can have troll skulls for free?

238 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:38:58pm

re: #232 darthstar

Swimming today, then lunch. Did a thousand yards again. Trying to stay in shape and lose weight. Club membership was wife's idea but now that we use it (and we have five clubs to choose from), I think it's worth every dollar.

Nice - good for you. It's hard to put a price on being in good shape.

239 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:39:32pm

re: #223 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A-fucking-men. I may not think Obama's the greatest choice, I honestly think he's a bit lacking, but nothing I've seen the GOP do in the last 3 years has convinced me that they should be allowed within 500 feet of the White House.

I'm in the Not Too Bad camp on Obama. He's seemed to have governed centrist. Not happy that he's not too focused on AGW, but I don't know what he could have done better with regards to the economy. He came into office in an exceptional situation.

And it's pretty clear he acts like an adult. His most egregious moment, to me, was the 'Talking Stupidly' kefuffle followed up with a beer. Not something to really get worked up about.

240 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:39:39pm

re: #237 Sergey Romanov

Why do you need all that, when you can have troll skulls for free?

[Video]

Yegods.

241 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:39:41pm

re: #172 Sergey Romanov

Gosh you football nerds freak me out (it's football, right? Not baseball or some other funny sport).

Let's drown this madness in Skyrim-talk.

If Rodgers gets an arrow to the knee we will come looking for you!
/

242 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:40:11pm

re: #238 Aceofwhat?

Nice - good for you. It's hard to put a price on being in good shape.

I once met a lady that told me exactly what the price would be!!!

No,, wait ,,, twice!!

//

243 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:41:05pm

re: #240 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yegods.

At least Ace hoards books.

244 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:41:33pm

re: #215 darthstar

I'm using one of the complimentary iPads at the club right now... I hate these fckin' things.

I love mine. I got tons of free e-books from the iBook Store and Amazon, including lots of classics. I've reading material and Web access everywhere I go.

245 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:41:54pm

re: #239 BigPapa

I'm in the Not Too Bad camp on Obama

Me too
However, at this point in time, we need better than "Not Too Bad"

And no, I don't at this time see anyone better!

246 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:42:40pm

re: #239 BigPapa

I'm in the Not Too Bad camp on Obama. He's seemed to have governed centrist. Not happy that he's not too focused on AGW, but I don't know what he could have done better with regards to the economy. He came into office in an exceptional situation.

And it's pretty clear he acts like an adult. His most egregious moment, to me, was the 'Talking Stupidly' kefuffle followed up with a beer. Not something to really get worked up about.

Agreed. The man has done well with what he's had on hand. I can't really fault him for being unable to work with an opposition that dedicated itself to the singular goal of seeing him voted out of office within months of his inauguration. Yeah, I agree that he's not focused on the issues I felt of major importance as much as I'd like, but again, there's no way he could really do so in any meaningful way with the current environment.

All I can hope at this time is that, come next November, the GOP take it so badly in the pants that 2013 sees a more humble and conciliatory Congress.

247 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:42:54pm

re: #239 BigPapa

I'm in the Not Too Bad camp on Obama. He's seemed to have governed centrist. Not happy that he's not too focused on AGW, but I don't know what he could have done better with regards to the economy. He came into office in an exceptional situation.

And it's pretty clear he acts like an adult. His most egregious moment, to me, was the 'Talking Stupidly' kefuffle followed up with a beer. Not something to really get worked up about.

Interesting. I'm in the Not Too Bad camp, as well, but I think he's too focused on AGW, or at least focused on all of the wrong places. Failed solar ventures + tepid support for nuclear power + cancellation or stonewalling of local oil and gas production = not good for the economy. And we don't have cooler weather to show for it.

248 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:44:03pm

re: #224 darthstar

It is a toy.

That's what my computer programming professor said 35 years ago about my Apple II. Quit after that. Nothing to learn from someone with so little imagination.

249 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:44:08pm

re: #247 Aceofwhat?

After what happened in Japan, nuclear power is pretty much a nonstarter, I think.

250 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:44:59pm

re: #249 aagcobb

After what happened in Japan, nuclear power is pretty much a nonstarter, I think.

Yeah, no matter how "safe" you advertise a nuke plant right now, the response is going to be "Yeah, you told us that back then too!"

251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:45:11pm

re: #245 sattv4u2


I'm in the Not Too Bad camp on Obama

Me too
However, at this point in time, we need better than "Not Too Bad"

And no, I don't at this time see anyone better!

As a rightie... I'm right there with ya.

George Bush and Barack Obama are the two presidents I'd most like to have a beer with. O'Douls for George... Some fancy beer for Obama... CL Smoothie for me. We'd just hang, and they both strike as guys who could just hang out.

252 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:45:33pm

re: #243 Sergey Romanov

At least Ace hoards books.

My bookshelves look very nice, too. With the skulls...well, that's how you get ants.

253 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:46:24pm

re: #251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As a rightie... I'm right there with ya.

George Bush and Barack Obama are the two presidents I'd most like to have a beer with. O'Douls for George... Some fancy beer for him... CL Smoothie for me. We'd just hang, and they both strike as guys who could just hang out.

You coudn't "hang" with either

GWB like BBQ too much, and Obama, hamburgers and Hot Dogs

You wouldn't want to piss off a President by asking for tofu!!

254 Winny Spencer  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:46:50pm

Skyrim really sucks (as has every game from Bethesda). One's choices have no meaningful consequences, which should be an essential feature of a role playing game. Not to mention the utterly unimaginative and dull setting and story.

Crap.

255 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:47:05pm

re: #249 aagcobb

After what happened in Japan, nuclear power is pretty much a nonstarter, I think.

Nuclear power is still useful, but we have got to get away from these decades-old designs currently in service. Newer designs are much safer and much smaller than most of the plants online right now, but it's all a matter of cost or the will to do it.

256 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:47:24pm

re: #254 Winny Spencer

Which one do you like?

257 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:47:29pm

re: #251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As a rightie... I'm right there with ya.

George Bush and Barack Obama are the two presidents I'd most like to have a beer with. O'Douls for George... Some fancy beer for him... CL Smoothie for me. We'd just hang, and they both strike as guys who could just hang out.

Bubba Clinton would be first choice, hands down

258 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:47:58pm

re: #249 aagcobb

After what happened in Japan, nuclear power is pretty much a nonstarter, I think.

Right. Let's base our policy decisions on a 40-year old, outdated plant based on the coast on a fault line. Great idea. Because it's not like new technology would be completely different in a disaster.

Oh, we should give up on computers, too. Vacuum tubes are a real energy drain.

259 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:48:19pm

re: #246 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Obama is a good president. Unfortunately, to really address the fucking mess we're in, we'd need a great president. A truly amazing one, on the level of Teddy Roosevelt but without the racism and manifest destiny.

260 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:48:22pm

re: #257 albusteve

Bubba Clinton would be first choice, hands down

You just want to be his wing man to get the extra women!!

261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:48:25pm

re: #253 sattv4u2

COULD TOO!
*runs from the room*

262 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:48:44pm

re: #254 Winny Spencer

Skyrim really sucks (as has every game from Bethesda). One's choices have no meaningful consequences, which should be an essential feature of a role playing game. Not to mention the utterly unimaginative and dull setting and story.

Crap.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I thought about buying it but i'm tired of wasting money on crappy games.

263 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:48:45pm

re: #250 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, no matter how "safe" you advertise a nuke plant right now, the response is going to be "Yeah, you told us that back then too!"

You mean that we need a leader on the topic? I quite agree.

264 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:48:59pm

re: #255 talon_262

Nuclear power is still useful, but we have got to get away from these decades-old designs currently in service. Newer designs are much safer and much smaller than most of the plants online right now, but it's all a matter of cost of the will to do it.

we have...Americans are pitifully stupid
[Link: www.hyperionpowergeneration.com...]

265 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:49:13pm

re: #255 talon_262

Nuclear power is still useful, but we have got to get away from these decades-old designs currently in service. Newer designs are much safer and much smaller than most of the plants online right now, but it's all a matter of cost of the will to do it.

well said

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:49:27pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I thought about buying it but i'm tired of wasting money on crappy games.

I'm sure there is a demo somewhere.

267 Winny Spencer  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:49:56pm

re: #256 Sergey Romanov

Which one do you like?

Loved Fallout New Vegas. The Witcher II was good too, and Deus Ex: Human Revolution, to name a few recent ones.

268 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:50:24pm

re: #254 Winny Spencer

Skyrim really sucks (as has every game from Bethesda). One's choices have no meaningful consequences, which should be an essential feature of a role playing game. Not to mention the utterly unimaginative and dull setting and story.

Crap.

Huh. So what's a game that doesn't suck?

269 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:50:29pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. I thought about buying it but i'm tired of wasting money on crappy games.

It's a great game, it's just not very RPG-y in that way. I mean, you do get to decide which side wins, and you get to decide a lot of other little things along the way, but it's no Planescape. But then again, almost nothing is.

I'd say it's about the KOTOR level of important decision-making.

270 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:51:21pm

re: #267 Winny Spencer

Loved Fallout New Vegas.

Um, didn't you just say:

Skyrim really sucks (as has every game from Bethesda).

?

271 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:51:37pm

re: #218 WindUpBird

I like laptops, with actual keys, it's a tactile thing

the ipad would be great as a music toy, lots of cool touch-sensitive music-making apps for it, but typing on it? OH GOD

re: #218 WindUpBird

I like laptops, with actual keys, it's a tactile thing

the ipad would be great as a music toy, lots of cool touch-sensitive music-making apps for it, but typing on it? OH GOD

I love mine, but definitely miss the ctrl function. I'm learning. It's that off my lawn thingy.

272 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:51:48pm

re: #268 Aceofwhat?

Huh. So what's a game that doesn't suck?

Wizardry 7

273 Winny Spencer  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:51:49pm

re: #270 Obdicut

?

Obsidian did New Vegas.

274 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:51:49pm

re: #267 Winny Spencer

Loved Fallout New Vegas.

How is this compatible with "really sucks (as has every game from Bethesda)"?

275 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:52:03pm

re: #258 Aceofwhat?

Right. Let's base our policy decisions on a 40-year old, outdated plant based on the coast on a fault line. Great idea. Because it's not like new technology would be completely different in a disaster.

Oh, we should give up on computers, too. Vacuum tubes are a real energy drain.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals and you know it."

276 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:53:33pm

re: #275 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals and you know it."

Tommy Lee Jones is my dude.

277 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:53:44pm

re: #258 Aceofwhat?

Right. Let's base our policy decisions on a 40-year old, outdated plant based on the coast on a fault line. Great idea. Because it's not like new technology would be completely different in a disaster.

Oh, we should give up on computers, too. Vacuum tubes are a real energy drain.

There are lots of policies I think should be adopted for which no political will exists. Its going to take some time after this years disaster before it will be politically feasible to push new nuclear plant construction.

278 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:54:13pm

re: #271 Stanley Sea

re: #218 WindUpBird

I love mine, but definitely miss the ctrl function. I'm learning. It's that off my lawn thingy.

It makes for a good websurfing-doodad, if they were fifty bucks, I'd have one! But the amount of gear I could get for the price of an ipad is crazy *_*

279 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:54:30pm

re: #273 Winny Spencer

Obsidian did New Vegas.

Which was essentially Fallout 3.5 - Obdicut's question is still valid.

280 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:54:46pm

re: #273 Winny Spencer

Obsidian did New Vegas.

Bethesda were the publishers, though. And publishers do a lot more than just distribute the game.

You do realize saying the game is dumb and sucks is kind of insulting to the people who like it, right? Can't you just say that you didn't enjoy it, that it's not for you? Why the need to trash it?

I don't really see a hell of a lot of differences in the decision-making in Skyrim vs. Fallout New Vegas, honestly. I guess you can't set yourself up as king in Skyrim, but that's a little more realistic. Other than that, you've got pretty much the same level of choice.

281 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:55:40pm

re: #273 Winny Spencer

Obsidian did New Vegas.

Which truly showed. The reputation system alone was a major advancement over the old "moral alignment" system. I give Bethesda credit for creating a much improved gaming engine and making the NPCs feel more real this time around, but the story is rather simplistic and predictable.

282 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:55:58pm

re: #280 Obdicut

was that some joke?....insulting game players?
hahaha!

283 Winny Spencer  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:56:35pm

re: #280 Obdicut

Bethesda were the publishers, though. And publishers do a lot more than just distribute the game.

You do realize saying the game is dumb and sucks is kind of insulting to the people who like it, right? Can't you just say that you didn't enjoy it, that it's not for you? Why the need to trash it?

I don't really see a hell of a lot of differences in the decision-making in Skyrim vs. Fallout New Vegas, honestly. I guess you can't set yourself up as king in Skyrim, but that's a little more realistic. Other than that, you've got pretty much the same level of choice.

Yes, that was unnecessary. But your last statement is absurd.

284 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:56:55pm

re: #273 Winny Spencer

Obsidian did New Vegas.

Sure, and it's still a game by Bethesda. I think I get what you mean, but you were quite imprecise.

285 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:57:27pm

re: #249 aagcobb

After what happened in Japan, nuclear power is pretty much a nonstarter, I think.

And what's still going on in Japan. It's bad.

286 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:57:40pm

re: #277 aagcobb

There are lots of policies I think should be adopted for which no political will exists. Its going to take some time after this years disaster before it will be politically feasible to push new nuclear plant construction.

Ox manure. Most republicans are ready now; all we need is a Dem with a spine to reiterate the proven science behind the new plants and help to minimize unnecessary red tape at the federal level.

287 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:57:58pm

I am gonna try Skyrim out when I head home next week for the break. Want to see what all the hype is about but I'll probably mostly be playing Madden. I usually get a title like Red Dead Redemption and Madden each year. Anyone played the new Saints Row? I rented 2 and found it too repetitive. The critics seem to like it though.

288 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:58:23pm

Gotta say

The Raiders don't have a ton of talent,, and there's no way they'll beat Green Bay today AT Lambeau ,,,, but their defense ,, THEY HIT!!!

AND ,,,, just heard a "clipping" call. Can't recall the last time I heard that!!

289 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:58:25pm

re: #283 Winny Spencer

Yes, that was unnecessary. But your last statement is absurd.

Then how about demonstrating how it's absurd, you know, making an actual argument, rather than just an assertion?

What choices do you have in Fallout: New Vegas that are more significant than in Skyrim? In both, you determine the outcome of a war-- though in Fallout: New Vegas it's a rather smaller-scale skirmish, with less wide-ranging implications.

Do you just mean the endings, where the various communities have a couple of fates that can play out?

290 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 1:58:34pm

re: #287 HappyWarrior

I am gonna try Skyrim out when I head home next week for the break. Want to see what all the hype is about but I'll probably mostly be playing Madden. I usually get a title like Red Dead Redemption and Madden each year. Anyone played the new Saints Row? I rented 2 and found it too repetitive. The critics seem to like it though.

Madden sucks

291 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:00:02pm

re: #290 albusteve

Madden sucks

Yeah it does but EA Sports I believe still has an exclusive deal with the NFL which sucks even more for practical reasons.

292 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:00:06pm

re: #257 albusteve

FYI, I'm making Colorado green chile. Gonna be so good!

293 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:00:13pm

re: #287 HappyWarrior

I am gonna try Skyrim out when I head home next week for the break. Want to see what all the hype is about but I'll probably mostly be playing Madden. I usually get a title like Red Dead Redemption and Madden each year. Anyone played the new Saints Row? I rented 2 and found it too repetitive. The critics seem to like it though.

Did you play Oblivion?

294 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:01:12pm

re: #293 Aceofwhat?

Did you play Oblivion?

Nah first I've ever heard of Elder Scrolls is Skyrim because it's gotten so much press.Not really a fan of the genre but I have an open mind to new things.

295 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:01:17pm

re: #287 HappyWarrior

If you've never played Psychonauts, buy it and play it. Still one of the greatest game experiences of all time. And even though it's a completely linear story, also one of the best stories of all time.

296 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:01:29pm

re: #293 Aceofwhat?

Did you play Oblivion?

I didn't. Should I?

297 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:01:47pm

re: #292 Stanley Sea

FYI, I'm making Colorado green chile. Gonna be so good!

sounds tasty...maybe I'll go get some later

298 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #296 Sergey Romanov

I didn't. Should I?

Meh. If you do, play it heavily modded. After Skyrim, it'll probably seem like lesser Skryim. I really enjoyed the Shivering Isles expansion, though.

299 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:02:25pm

re: #296 Sergey Romanov

I didn't. Should I?

Only if you hadn't played Skyrim beforehand. Now? It will be like pulling teeth without any drugs.

300 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:02:35pm

re: #295 Obdicut

If you've never played Psychonauts, buy it and play it. Still one of the greatest game experiences of all time. And even though it's a completely linear story, also one of the best stories of all time.

Ah sounds good. I don't mind linear really. I value strong story above all.

301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:02:47pm

re: #289 Obdicut

It's amazing how people can even argue about video games.

Ain't the net fun?

302 aagcobb  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:03:02pm

re: #286 Aceofwhat?

Ox manure. Most republicans are ready now; all we need is a Dem with a spine to reiterate the proven science behind the new plants and help to minimize unnecessary red tape at the federal level.

I think you are way underestimating the nimby factor.

303 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:03:35pm

((( I feel like I just walked into my sons room with all his "buds" in there, all holding game controllers and asking me if there's any Tostito Scoops and Salsa!!!))

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:03:47pm

re: #298 Obdicut

Meh. If you do, play it heavily modded. After Skyrim, it'll probably seem like lesser Skryim. I really enjoyed the Shivering Isles expansion, though.

Graphically yes. Gameplay/game mechanics-wise?

305 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:03:47pm

re: #301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's amazing how people can even argue about video games.

Ain't the net fun?

like arguing over Gummie Bear colors...and these people are adults....
we're hosed

306 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:03:49pm

re: #296 Sergey Romanov

I didn't. Should I?

Eh...maybe not now that you're spoiled by Skyrim. Each game has been a big improvement over the last, so it's fun for those who played the one before, but I think that all you'd see are the flaws if you played Oblivion. WUB has played each one, I think - I only played Morrowind and Oblivion before Skyrim.

307 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:04:09pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

((( I feel like I just walked into my sons room with all his "buds" in there, all holding game controllers and asking me if there's any Tostito Scoops and Salsa!!!))

Get out of my room, Dad! :)

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:04:10pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

((( I feel like I just walked into my sons room with all his "buds" in there, all holding game controllers and asking me if there's any Tostito Scoops and Salsa!!!))

Much better than football!

309 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:04:14pm

re: #300 HappyWarrior

Ah sounds good. I don't mind linear really. I value strong story above all.

Psychonauts is fun as hell, mixes dark and light moods together very well, parodies the hell out of everything, has great voice acting, a solid engine, and the graphics are of a sort that even though they're out-dated, they still look great, since it wasn't a "look how shiny" attempt but actual artistry.

310 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:04:22pm

re: #297 albusteve

sounds tasty...maybe I'll go get some later

re: #297 albusteve

sounds tasty...maybe I'll go get some later

I've got an extra place set. Head on ovah.

311 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:04:37pm

re: #308 Sergey Romanov

Much better than football!

FEH I say ,, FEH!

312 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:04:56pm

re: #309 Obdicut

Psychonauts is fun as hell, mixes dark and light moods together very well, parodies the hell out of everything, has great voice acting, a solid engine, and the graphics are of a sort that even though they're out-dated, they still look great, since it wasn't a "look how shiny" attempt but actual artistry.

[Video]

Yahtzee, is that you?

/

313 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:06pm

re: #306 Aceofwhat?

Eh...maybe not now that you're spoiled by Skyrim. Each game has been a big improvement over the last, so it's fun for those who played the one before, but I think that all you'd see are the flaws if you played Oblivion. WUB has played each one, I think - I only played Morrowind and Oblivion before Skyrim.

Well, I still think Sierra/LucasArts VGA adventure games were the best, so maybe I'm not so spoiled...

314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:08pm

re: #307 HappyWarrior

Get out of my room, Dad! :)

And for Pete's sake, if you're not going to wear pants; at least change underwear!

315 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:18pm

re: #310 Stanley Sea

re: #297 albusteve

I've got an extra place set. Head on ovah.

thanks but can't drag myself away from Pac Man at the moment

316 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:35pm

re: #309 Obdicut

Psychonauts is fun as hell, mixes dark and light moods together very well, parodies the hell out of everything, has great voice acting, a solid engine, and the graphics are of a sort that even though they're out-dated, they still look great, since it wasn't a "look how shiny" attempt but actual artistry.

[Video]

Looks different than what I normally play but that could be fun.

317 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:38pm

re: #310 Stanley Sea

As I demonstrate for the blog iPad fail. I'm learning!

318 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:53pm

re: #311 sattv4u2

FEH I say ,, FEH!

Also, baseball.

319 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:05:55pm

re: #304 Sergey Romanov

Graphically yes. Gameplay/game mechanics-wise?

The mechanics of Oblivion are just slightly more clunky than in Skyrim. Slightly more broken all-round. And the Oblivion gates get really, really, really repetitive. Those bits are like a dystopian jogging simulator.

320 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:06:10pm

re: #315 albusteve

thanks but can't drag myself away from Pac Man at the moment

WINNAH!!!

321 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:06:21pm

re: #318 Sergey Romanov

Also, baseball.

So you want a war huh. :)

322 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:06:23pm

re: #272 WindUpBird

Wizardry 7

Ding!DIng!Ding! That was the best game series ever. Only thing since that's been as good as that is the Final Fantsy games but that's because all I much play anymore is my first gen DS.

323 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:06:24pm

re: #313 Sergey Romanov

Well, I still think Sierra/LucasArts VGA adventure games were the best, so maybe I'm not so spoiled...

Puzzle games used to be my big thing growing up. Them and "god games" like SimCity.

324 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:06:39pm

re: #313 Sergey Romanov

Well, I still think Sierra/LucasArts VGA adventure games were the best, so maybe I'm not so spoiled...

Do you like the Sam and Max series?

325 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:07:01pm

re: #312 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yahtzee, is that you?

/

I don't really know what Yahtzee is, but years ago I was a fan of user-made little games, something about Yahtzee and stuff. Very weird, very surrealist, very absurd and very fun.

326 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:07:29pm

re: #294 HappyWarrior

Nah first I've ever heard of Elder Scrolls is Skyrim because it's gotten so much press.Not really a fan of the genre but I have an open mind to new things.

Personally, if you told me to banish myself to a desert island with a tv, an Xbox360 and a series of games, I'd pick the Mass Effect series.

Meaningful choices, fantastic narrative, great writing, great easter eggs, and satisfying combat.

327 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:07:33pm

re: #321 HappyWarrior

So you want a war huh. :)

* [brawl] Bring it on.

328 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:08:12pm

re: #323 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Puzzle games used to be my big thing growing up. Them and "god games" like SimCity.

Loved SimCity as a kid. It was just like real life. No matter how low I made taxes, people were never happy with their rates. I liked playing Oregon Trail at school and giving my party members silly names.

329 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:08:13pm

re: #324 Obdicut

Do you like the Sam and Max series?

Yeah. I started them, but one of the older episodes (third?) refused to play on my system, so they're dormant for a bit.

330 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:08:30pm

re: #308 Sergey Romanov

Much better than football!

Which reminds me - Ted Ginn Jr. is fast.

331 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:09:06pm

re: #328 HappyWarrior

HappyWarrior has died of dysentery.

332 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:09:26pm

re: #325 Sergey Romanov

I don't really know what Yahtzee is, but years ago I was a fan of user-made little games, something about Yahtzee and stuff. Very weird, very surrealist, very absurd and very fun.

Yahtzee's one of the more famous (er, infamous) game critics on the web, does a web series called Zero Punctuation. Warning, his reviews aren't for the feint of heart.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:09:36pm

re: #330 Aceofwhat?

Which reminds me - Ted Ginn Jr. is fast.

Until his first arrow in the knee.

(You wanted that, didn't you?)

334 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:09:41pm

re: #323 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Puzzle games used to be my big thing growing up. Them and "god games" like SimCity.

Mine ,, an old broomstick ,, half a pimple ball, 3 (+) friends,,, GAME ON!!!

(outdoors ,,,, Old Man Falveys back bumper was 1st base ,, manhole cover in the middle of Autumn Street was 2nd base ,,, crack in curbstone in front of Mike Merretts house was 3rd base,,,, where you dropped the "bat" after hitting the ball was home plate)

Image: pimple_ball1.jpg

335 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:10:12pm

re: #330 Aceofwhat?

Which reminds me - Ted Ginn Jr. is fast.

Too bad he has stone hands

336 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:10:39pm

re: #331 erik_t

HappyWarrior has died of dysentery.

Haha but yeah it was fun and educational because I had no idea what diseases like dysentery, cholera, etc were.

337 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:11:29pm

re: #335 sattv4u2

Too bad he has stone hands

Yup. And long strides. Doesn't change direction well. Mostly fun to watch on kick and punt returns.

338 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:11:44pm

re: #334 sattv4u2

Mine ,, an old broomstick ,, half a pimple ball, 3 (+) friends,,, GAME ON!!!

(outdoors ,,, Old Man Falveys back bumper was 1st base ,, manhole cover in the middle of Autumn Street was 2nd base ,,, crack in curbstone in front of Mile Merretts house was 3rd base,,, where you dropped the "bat" after hitting the ball was home plate)

you could break a finger nail playing like that....get back in the house in front of that monitor....here's a box of Twinkies

339 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:11:59pm

re: #326 Aceofwhat?

Personally, if you told me to banish myself to a desert island with a tv, an Xbox360 and a series of games, I'd pick the Mass Effect series.

Meaningful choices, fantastic narrative, great writing, great easter eggs, and satisfying combat.

Yeah, I'm still pissed at Bioware for moving back ME3 to next March. A pox upon their house!

/

340 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:12:40pm

re: #338 albusteve

you could break a finger nail playing like that...get back in the house in front of that monitor...here's a box of Twinkies

two in a row ,, You Go, Steve

341 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:13:05pm

re: #336 HappyWarrior

Haha but yeah it was fun and educational because I had no idea what diseases like dysentery, cholera, etc were.

I was more of a Number Munchers man, myself.

342 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:13:28pm

re: #328 HappyWarrior

Loved SimCity as a kid. It was just like real life. No matter how low I made taxes, people were never happy with their rates. I liked playing Oregon Trail at school and giving my party members silly names.

And, of course, when citizens got particularly whiny and it seemed like the game was going downhill anyway? Pop open the disaster menu and raze it all to the ground.

343 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:13:33pm

Pick up B-ball was my game. Liked using my comparative tall height to an advantage. As for games- Capture the Flag was my favorite. In large scale games, I'd pretend to be in the opposing teams jail to get a feel for their defenses. Kick the can also fun even if I wasn't the fastest. Never did like flashlight tag much though.

344 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:13:35pm

re: #332 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, this is the guy whose name was used.

He made this super-kewl series of short free adventure games:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Now that I think of it, I need to replay it.

345 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:14:05pm

re: #341 erik_t

I was more of a Number Munchers man, myself.

They had a history or geography version I think, I liked that.

346 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:14:06pm

re: #339 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I'm still pissed at Bioware for moving back ME3 to next March. A pox upon their house!

/

See, I'm already bittersweet about the series concluding, so I'd rather they took their time and made it as good as possible. And I figure my son and I will have mostly exhausted Skyrim right about then, with a little Assassin's Creed thrown in for good measure.

347 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:14:34pm

re: #342 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And, of course, when citizens got particularly whiny and it seemed like the game was going downhill anyway? Pop open the disaster menu and raze it all to the ground.

Newt?

/

348 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:16:34pm

re: #338 albusteve

you could break a finger nail playing like that...get back in the house in front of that monitor...here's a box of Twinkies

stickball = standing around. backyard football > stickball any day. i was the Wes Welker of the neighborhood. (fast, but rather small and white)

349 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:16:47pm

re: #342 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And, of course, when citizens got particularly whiny and it seemed like the game was going downhill anyway? Pop open the disaster menu and raze it all to the ground.

Haha did you ever see this on college humor?
[Link: www.collegehumor.com...]

350 theheat  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:18:00pm

re: #25 Obdicut

This is why it's so important to deregulate everything.

Because they're the party of job creators and job creation.//

351 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:19:43pm

re: #348 Aceofwhat?

stickball = standing around. backyard football > stickball any day. i was the Wes Welker of the neighborhood. (fast, but rather small and white)

I played touch football well into my twenties with the same guys I played HS ball with...it was pretty rough at times...fortunately my son was never a video freak either...we are just not indoor people

352 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:19:47pm

re: #350 theheat

This is why it's so important to deregulate everything.

Because they're the party of job creators and job creation.//

No, you're right. Regulations are awesome. Like when the EPA tries to treat spilled milk as spilled petroleum. There are no unnecessary or overly harsh regulations.

353 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:20:32pm

re: #352 Aceofwhat?

Do you write textbooks on logical fallacies?

354 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:20:36pm

re: #346 Aceofwhat?

See, I'm already bittersweet about the series concluding, so I'd rather they took their time and made it as good as possible. And I figure my son and I will have mostly exhausted Skyrim right about then, with a little Assassin's Creed thrown in for good measure.

Yeah, considering how Skyrim has exploded in popularity, it's probably better they did delay til next year. If nothing else, it's more time to polish, fix nits, and build up reviews via beta testing.

355 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:20:44pm

re: #352 Aceofwhat?

No, you're right. Regulations are awesome. Like when the EPA tries to treat spilled milk as spilled petroleum. There are no unnecessary or overly harsh regulations.

I've never cried over spilled petroleum!

356 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:21:54pm

re: #353 erik_t

Do you write textbooks on logical fallacies?

huh?? Someone wants to deregulate "everything" ???

357 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:22:13pm

re: #352 Aceofwhat?

Like when the EPA tries to treat spilled milk as spilled petroleum.

Didn't actually happen, you know. Just a manufactured outrage to get people hyped up.

[Link: green.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Ms. Jackson said she had written a letter to the editor explaining that the agency had decided to exempt the dairy industry from the oil spill rules several months before, but the newspaper declined to publish it.

Gee, Murdoch's Wall Street Journal lying to the public, whodathunk it?


Of course there's tons of bad regulations. But the response to that shouldn't be to deregulate, it's to make the regulations better. Sometimes that means making them less restrictive, sometimes it means just making them better, and sometimes it means making them a lot stronger.

358 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:23:33pm

re: #353 erik_t

Do you write textbooks on logical fallacies?

Should we start with "republicans want to deregulate everything"?

359 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:24:13pm

re: #358 Aceofwhat?

Well, since you bring up an environmental example, several leading candidates wish to eliminate the agency in charge of setting environmental regulations.

So yes, let's start there.

360 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:26:08pm

excessive video game playing will result in liberal sissyness and severe erectile dysfunction....fact

361 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:26:12pm

re: #359 erik_t

Well, since you bring up an environmental example, several leading candidates wish to eliminate the agency in charge of setting environmental regulations.

So yes, let's start there.

There were no regulations prior to agencies??
I did not know that!

362 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:26:23pm

re: #332 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

yahtzee rules :D

363 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:26:50pm

re: #359 erik_t

The funny part about the dairy industry thingy is that if they had talked to the actual dairy industry people, they would have found out it was a fake story pretty quickly.

364 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:27:27pm

re: #357 Obdicut

Didn't actually happen, you know. Just a manufactured outrage to get people hyped up.

[Link: green.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Gee, Murdoch's Wall Street Journal lying to the public, whodathunk it?

Of course there's tons of bad regulations. But the response to that shouldn't be to deregulate, it's to make the regulations better. Sometimes that means making them less restrictive, sometimes it means just making them better, and sometimes it means making them a lot stronger.

No, they spent time before they "decided to exempt" (her words) milk. Which means that it wasn't at first exempted.

By the way, I agree with you. It's just that "making them less restrictive", as you say, is parroted as "evil republican deregulation of the world" when folks are short on substantive criticisms. Making a regulation less restrictive is one of the definitions of deregulation.

365 erik_t  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:27:46pm

re: #363 Obdicut

Facts are orthogonal to the discussion and you and I both know it.

366 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:28:42pm

re: #365 erik_t

Facts are orthogonal to the discussion and you and I both know it.

You forgot to add "wink wink, nudge nudge"

And don't forget the secret handshake!!

367 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:29:21pm

re: #364 Aceofwhat?

Lindsey Graham just compared consumer fraud protection to Stalin! :D

368 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:30:10pm

re: #364 Aceofwhat?

No, they spent time before they "decided to exempt" (her words) milk. Which means that it wasn't at first exempted.

By the way, I agree with you. It's just that "making them less restrictive", as you say, is parroted as "evil republican deregulation of the world" when folks are short on substantive criticisms. Making a regulation less restrictive is one of the definitions of deregulation.

Nice goalpost shift there. Went from there were being regulations to "deciding to exempt" while they were writing the regulation.

369 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:30:16pm

Well, they're cheering labor for other people's children, not their own, which are supposed to get the biggest and best of everything.

Dumb, stupid confederates. Not one thing has changed with these filthy conservative bigots since the Birth of A Nation era.

370 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:31:19pm

re: #352 Aceofwhat?

No, you're right. Regulations are awesome. Like when the EPA tries to treat spilled milk as spilled petroleum. There are no unnecessary or overly harsh regulations.

Hook, line, sinker, tackle box ...

In testimony before Congress on Thursday, Ms. Jackson declared that the new rule cited by Republicans would, in fact, exempt dairy containers from the regulations that govern oil facilities — rules that have been on the books for nearly 40 years.

“It was our work with the dairy industry that prompted E.P.A. to develop an exemption and make sure the standards of the law are met in a common-sense way,” she said. “All of E.P.A.’s actions have been to exempt these containers. And we expect this to become final very shortly.”

Ms. Jackson’s account has been echoed by dairy industry representatives.

In her testimony, Ms. Jackson called the rumored milk regulations one of several “fictions” being spread by Republicans and special interest groups about proposed federal environmental regulations.

371 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:32:31pm

re: #363 Obdicut

The funny part about the dairy industry thingy is that if they had talked to the actual dairy industry people, they would have found out it was a fake story pretty quickly.

Quite untrue. The regulations had been delayed from the year before. You should read more local papers - here's one from your state.

[Link: www.watertowndailytimes.com...]

"The EPA had contended that the butterfat in milk could subject it to oil spill response regulations, which the agency has been revising in the wake of the spill in the Gulf of Mexico. But the issue is not new; lawmakers told the EPA recently that a 1995 law dictates that edible oils are not to be regulated in the same way as petroleum, for instance, throughout federal agencies.

Mr. Owens said EPA officials sought him out for the meeting to discuss the milk issue and generally to get acquainted with the relatively new congressman.

The EPA had delayed the regulations last June following complaints from lawmakers and organizations representing dairy farmers. Mr. Owens was among those who complained, as did Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y.

372 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:32:48pm

re: #364 Aceofwhat?

No, they spent time before they "decided to exempt" (her words) milk. Which means that it wasn't at first exempted.

I'm sorry, Ace, but this isn't true. There was a stay put on the regulation while they worked out the final regulation. You are repeating a made-up-controvery that has no basis in fact, as confirmed by the dairy industry itself.

By the way, I agree with you. It's just that "making them less restrictive", as you say, is parroted as "evil republican deregulation of the world" when folks are short on substantive criticisms. Making a regulation less restrictive is one of the definitions of deregulation.

It's one of, but it's not a very good one.

Florida, as usual, provides a great extreme: the lunatic GOP governor down there has made his deregulation attempts so sweeping and moronic that the industries themselves that would supposedly benefit are protesting that they're insane.

[Link: articles.orlandosentinel.com...]

The GOP attempts to defund or outright destroy the EPA and environmental regulations are, in my view, evil, with AGW marching towards us. The GOP anti-science attitude in general is, but especially their attitude towards the environment.

Do you support getting rid of the EPA?

373 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:33:43pm

Without the detail that the EPA provides, laws affecting environmental issues would be unclear until someone gets sued; eliminating the EPA would mean a huge increase in clarifying lawsuits.

A number of laws serve as EPA's foundation for protecting the environment and public health. However, most laws do not have enough detail to be put into practice right away. EPA is called a regulatory agency because Congress authorizes us to write regulations that explain the critical details necessary to implement environmental laws.
[Link: www.epa.gov...]

374 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:35:05pm

re: #370 goddamnedfrank

Get hooked on phonics. The regulation existed in the proposed rules the year before. The EPA subsequently carved out an exemption after the outcry. Their first position was that the butterfat content permitted such draconian regulation.

If you're going to be an ass, at least be correct.

375 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:35:13pm

re: #371 Aceofwhat?

Ace, the story you're citing says that the EPA exempted them, always attempted to exempt them, and never enforced it against them.

So what the hell point were you trying to make? This is a case of good regulation. There was a regulation that could have negatively affected an industry for no particular good, and the regulation was adjusted so it didn't happen.

So where is the problem, exactly?

376 funky chicken  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:35:13pm

re: #14 Naso Tang

It's strange how Newt can take an issue like teaching work ethics or skills to kids, which just about anyone would agree with, and make it a polarizing , implicitly racist, and largely insignificant financial issue. He talks of employing perhaps 30 kids, part time, out of a total of probably hundreds, and of which the 30 will be volunteers (presumably) and the ones who might conceivably benefit the most would need to be conscripted to do the work.

This is the analysis level of a wannabe president of the USA?

Never mind the families who would lose their source of income and health insurance when the "overpaid" janitors are let go.

So, onto welfare, food stamps, and medicaid they all go...so Newt and his creepy friends can fill their jobs with minimum wage kids.

Oh, and janitors work during summers and school holidays, and nights and weekends when needed.

377 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:35:46pm

re: #374 Aceofwhat?

If you're going to be an ass, at least be correct.

Left your polite pants at home?

378 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:37:30pm

some terrific hyperbole today

379 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:38:08pm

re: #372 Obdicut

I'm sorry, Ace, but this isn't true. There was a stay put on the regulation while they worked out the final regulation. You are repeating a made-up-controvery that has no basis in fact, as confirmed by the dairy industry itself.


Do you support getting rid of the EPA?

That isn't true. The EPA initially contended that the butterfat in milk could subject it to oil spill response regulations. As I said.

And no, i don't want to get rid of them. But do you know how much time and money people and our government spent lobbying the EPA to make such an obvious decision NOT to regulate butterfat as petroleum?

380 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:38:15pm

re: #378 albusteve

some terrific hyperbole today

No, it was absofuckinglutely amazing hyperbole that literally blew my head off my shoulders.

381 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:38:36pm

re: #377 Obdicut

Left your polite pants at home?

Oh, I forgot. I'm the only one you hold to that standard.

382 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:38:44pm

re: #377 Obdicut

Left your polite pants at home?

Me'thinks it was a reaction to the Hook, line, sinker, tackle box . comment

Unnecessary? Sure
Understandable? Same

383 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:39:44pm

re: #380 Obdicut

No, it was absofuckinglutely amazing hyperbole that literally blew my head off my shoulders.

doesn't seem to take much...maybe you should look into that

384 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:40:11pm

re: #196 right_wing2

Simple. I look at the direction we've taken in the last few years, since he was elected. Bush was nothing to write home about (either one of them), and McCain was pathetic. But Obama makes even Jimmy Carter look marginally competent.

Carter is famous for screwing up (or at least having somebody screw up) a bit of military action involving helicopters, and something tells me Obama is going to go down in history as being famous for a certain helicopter involving military action that went off without a single American loss of life and achieved all its objectives.

385 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:40:48pm

re: #376 funky chicken

Never mind the families who would lose their source of income and health insurance when the "overpaid" janitors are let go.

So, onto welfare, food stamps, and medicaid they all go...so Newt and his creepy friends can fill their jobs with minimum wage kids.

Oh, and janitors work during summers and school holidays, and nights and weekends when needed.

These filthy conservative confederates will remain miserable until the country has been taken back to some time in 1915. If not earlier.

386 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:40:54pm

re: #379 Aceofwhat?

That isn't true. The EPA initially contended that the butterfat in milk could subject it to oil spill response regulations. As I said.

Well, it could. And that's why they exempted it. Again, what is the problem here?

And no, i don't want to get rid of them. But do you know how much time and money people and our government spent lobbying the EPA to make such an obvious decision NOT to regulate butterfat as petroleum?

How much, Ace? Tell me, tell me!

387 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:41:44pm

re: #378 albusteve

some terrific hyperbole today

Goes well with the borscht

388 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:41:56pm

re: #381 Aceofwhat?

Oh, I forgot. I'm the only one you hold to that standard.

Victimhood is an ugly color on you.

389 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:42:39pm

re: #383 albusteve

doesn't seem to take much...maybe you should look into that

Perhaps you should also consider your oversensitivity to what you believe is "hyperbole".

390 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:42:59pm

re: #385 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

These filthy conservative confederates

Which ones are 'these'? All people who call themselves 'conservatives'? Or just the ones of the Perry/Gingrich mold?

391 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:43:05pm

re: #388 Obdicut

Victimhood is an ugly color on you.

just don't dis my video game, mf
lol

392 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:44:13pm

re: #389 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Perhaps you should also consider your oversensitivity to what you believe is "hyperbole".

perhaps you should go take a nap

393 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:44:55pm

OT: It appearss US-made Tear Gas has killed a 5-day old baby girl in Bahrain.

Apparently, the Bahraini Police shot tear gas into a small town.

Time for the US to ban sales of Tear Gas, and cut Bahrain loose. They are killing the own citizens, and harming our image tremendously.

394 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:45:05pm

re: #386 Obdicut

Well, it could. And that's why they exempted it. Again, what is the problem here?

They didn't initially want to exempt it. So what I said was correct. They ATTEMPTED to regulate milk spills as petroleum spills.

Do you really not think there's a problem there? Related question - how expensive is it to clean up after an oil spill?

395 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:45:10pm

re: #392 albusteve

perhaps you should go take a nap

I ain't tucking her in!!!!

396 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:45:21pm

The modern GOP is now a dedicated fluffer for polluters, doing whatever they say without so much as a peep of objection. Not hyperbole. Tim Phillips of Americans for Prosperity confirms it as fact:

Surprisingly, AFP isn’t shy about discussing its influence on electoral politics. In fact, in the National Journal article, AFP’s president, Tim Phillips, openly takes credit for bullying — literally threatening — GOP lawmakers with “political peril” should they chose to “play footsie” on climate change and clean energy:

“If you look where the situation was three years ago and where it is today, there’s been a dramatic turnaround. … We’ve made great headway. What it means for the candidates on the Republican side, is if you … buy into green energy or you play footsie on this issue, you do so at your political peril. … And that’s our influence. Groups like Americans for Prosperity have done it.”

397 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:45:51pm

re: #394 Aceofwhat?

They didn't initially want to exempt it.

What are you basing that claim on, Ace?

398 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:45:56pm

re: #388 Obdicut

Victimhood is an ugly color on you.

Normally I'd agree with you, except it matches the pattern of truth in the comment.

399 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:47:09pm

re: #398 Aceofwhat?

You seriously think you're the only person I criticize when they make a personal attack? You honestly believe that to be true?

400 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:47:11pm

re: #396 publicityStunted

The modern GOP is now a dedicated fluffer for polluters, doing whatever they say without so much as a peep of objection. Not hyperbole. Tim Phillips of Americans for Prosperity confirms it as fact:

Yep, just scream at voters that green energy or combating climate change will mean higher energy prices and fewer jobs, and they get jittery and run to the polls to vote for the guy who thinks oil and coal are God's gift to mankind.

401 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:48:06pm

re: #388 Obdicut

Victimhood is an ugly color on you.

Although i'm mostly striving for mild snark, and am not offended by your comment. Just want to pause here to make sure that I'm not coming across as more than snarky.

402 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:49:17pm

re: #400 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep, just scream at voters that green energy or combating climate change will mean higher energy prices and fewer jobs, and they get jittery and run to the polls to vote for the guy who thinks oil and coal are God's gift to mankind.

And meanwhile, in the real world, "Solyndra" outrageous outrage aside:

Solar Power Much Cheaper to Produce Than Most Analysts Realize, Study Finds

The public is being kept in the dark about the viability of solar photovoltaic energy, according to a study conducted at Queen’s University.

“Many analysts project a higher cost for solar photovoltaic energy because they don’t consider recent technological advancements and price reductions,” says [co-author] Joshua Pearce, Adjunct Professor, Department of Mechanical and Materials Engineering. “Older models for determining solar photovoltaic energy costs are too conservative.”

Dr. Pearce believes solar photovoltaic systems are near the “tipping point” where they can produce energy for about the same price other traditional sources of energy.

403 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:50:08pm

re: #390 Obdicut

Which ones are 'these'? All people who call themselves 'conservatives'? Or just the ones of the Perry/Gingrich mold?

e_e

The latter, obviously.

404 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:50:34pm

re: #402 publicityStunted

A friend of mine who's working in carbon nanotubes to make solar not dependent on rare earth; they're basically there already, they just need to get mass manufacturing stuff worked out. He's up at Northwestern. It's cool stuff.

405 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:50:36pm

For those stuck with the Green Bay/ Oakland game,, I'm sorry

406 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:51:31pm

re: #395 sattv4u2

I ain't tucking her in!!!

That screen yer lookin at and keyboard you're typin on is the closest I would ever allow someone like you to ever get to me. So it's just as well, smart feller.

407 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:51:53pm

re: #405 sattv4u2

For those stuck with the Green Bay/ Oakland game,, I'm sorry

Chi/Den have played the entire first half inside the 30yd lines...
0-0

408 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:52:10pm

re: #399 Obdicut

You seriously think you're the only person I criticize when they make a personal attack? You honestly believe that to be true?

I seriously think that in most cases, especially most of the memorable disagreements I've had with other posters, i receive far more personal attacks than i return and yet you single me out for criticism. I cannot say "only" or "every". But "mostly" fits the bill quite well.

It doesn't feel personal or premeditated on your part, simply uneven.

409 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:52:23pm

re: #402 publicityStunted

And meanwhile, in the real world, "Solyndra" outrageous outrage aside:

Solar Power Much Cheaper to Produce Than Most Analysts Realize, Study Finds

If solar and other green energies got subsidized to same degree that oil and coal do, there would be no question of which is better for America.

410 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:52:27pm

re: #406 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That screen yer lookin at and keyboard you're typin on is the closest I would ever allow someone like you to ever get to me. So it's just as well, smart feller.

"someone like" me ,,

hmmmm!!

411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:52:34pm

re: #392 albusteve

perhaps you should go take a nap

You have the demeanor of an underfed hog.

412 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:53:12pm

Save the drones!
Pakistan decides to shoot down US drones?

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will shoot down any US drone that intrudes its airspace as per new directives, a senior Pakistani official said. According to the new Pakistani defence policy, “Any object entering into our airspace, including US drones, will be treated as hostile and be shot down,” a senior Pakistani military official told NBC News.

413 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:53:29pm

re: #411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You have the demeanor of an underfed hog.

have a lot of experience with underfed hogs, do you?

414 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:54:05pm

re: #403 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

e_e

The latter, obviously.

It's not actually obvious, which is why I asked. You have a habit of making statements that could be interpreted broadly; there's some fancy name for it, but I can't remember it.

Basically, if I say, "I hate these violent Occupy protesters", it sounds like I'm saying the protesters are, on the whole, violent.

Likewise, if you say "I hate these confederate conservatives", it sounds bad, because it sounds like you're saying all conservatives are confederates.

It's just a quirk of the English language, that adjective noun categories don't automatically discern between whether they're inclusive or exclusive descriptors, so being as clear as possible is a good thing.

415 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:54:21pm

re: #402 publicityStunted

And meanwhile, in the real world, "Solyndra" outrageous outrage aside:

Solar Power Much Cheaper to Produce Than Most Analysts Realize, Study Finds

I'm not outraged that the gov't would invest in renewable energy; i'm outraged that they put 500million eggs in one dumb basket.

416 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:55:01pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Save the drones!
Pakistan decides to shoot down US drones?

Been wondering when the other shoe would drop.

417 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:56:05pm

re: #414 Obdicut

Allow me to interpret

"filthy conservative confederates"
Anyone to the right of "center"

center
The speaker

418 albusteve  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:56:13pm

re: #411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You have the demeanor of an underfed hog.

you have the demeanor of an angry victim

419 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:56:13pm

re: #408 Aceofwhat?

I seriously think that in most cases, especially most of the memorable disagreements I've had with other posters, i receive far more personal attacks than i return and yet you single me out for criticism. I cannot say "only" or "every". But "mostly" fits the bill quite well.

It doesn't feel personal or premeditated on your part, simply uneven.

You realize that's an entirely different claim than you originally made, right?

420 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:56:17pm

re: #404 Obdicut

A friend of mine who's working in carbon nanotubes to make solar not dependent on rare earth; they're basically there already, they just need to get mass manufacturing stuff worked out. He's up at Northwestern. It's cool stuff.

Have we found anything that carbon nanotubes can't do yet? I swear, every Science issue has a new property or utility that someone has discovered in that area. Cool stuff indeed.

421 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:57:01pm

re: #411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You have the demeanor of an underfed hog.

That wins the dumb insult of the day award.

422 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:58:01pm

re: #419 Obdicut

You realize that's an entirely different claim than you originally made, right?

Sure, but it wasn't my final claim. The first one was a draft that I modified later.

now that's funny stuff right thar

423 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:58:08pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Save the drones!
Pakistan decides to shoot down US drones?

Dear Pakistan

We would like to chase down terrorists as they cross the border into your country. We would like to use our drones to do that

We would also like to not have to cut how much aid we send you each year

Regards

424 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:58:45pm

re: #416 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Been wondering when the other shoe would drop.

It's tough talk but I doubt it's all that serious of a threat. They probably can't even detect our drones much less shoot them down. It does look like we're getting ready to start treating Pakistan as a hostile country. It's dangerous but I suppose it was probably inevitable.

425 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 2:59:56pm

re: #422 Aceofwhat?

Maybe next time wait until you've composed that final draft in your head, before typing it out. Then it'll look less like you're cloaking yourself in the victimhood.

By the way, you never responded to this:

What are you basing that claim on, Ace?

You've said the EPA didn't originally 'want' to exempt the dairy farms from the oil spill regulations. Can you explain what you're basing that claim on?

426 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:01:05pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

Save the drones!
Pakistan decides to shoot down US drones?

I still can't believe that Iran got their hands on one. How do these things not have enough failsafes? Unreal. It's a remote stealth drone but we can't build a remote detonator for it.

427 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:02:33pm

re: #394 Aceofwhat?

They didn't initially want to exempt it. So what I said was correct. They ATTEMPTED to regulate milk spills as petroleum spills.

Attempt implies intention, and in this case there simply was none.

In response to feedback from the agriculture community, EPA determined that this unintended result of the current regulations – which were designed to prevent oil spill damage to inland waters and shorelines – placed unjustifiable burdens on dairy farmers. To ensure that this outdated rule didn’t harm the agriculture community while the mandatory regulatory process proceeded, EPA had delayed SPCC compliance requirements for milk and milk product containers several times since the SPCC rule went into effect. Today’s formal rule change reflects EPA’s commitment to common-sense, responsive, and transparent rulemaking. It’s also consistent with the president’s executive order on improving regulations.

See that? Straight from the EPA, unintended result, as in a technical consequence never actually contemplated. It appears that the side effect of the proposed rule was recognized early and temporary exemptions were effected until the rule was formally amended to fix this unforeseen technicality.

Therefore the assertion that the EPA didn't want to exempt the dairy industry is simply untrue.

428 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:02:34pm

re: #425 Obdicut

Maybe next time wait until you've composed that final draft in your head, before typing it out

It's going to be an awfully quiet blog if everyone does that!

429 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:05:21pm

re: #426 Aceofwhat?

I still can't believe that Iran got their hands on one. How do these things not have enough failsafes? Unreal. It's a remote stealth drone but we can't build a remote detonator for it.

Or at least a GPS locator so we can send a missile to blow it up. I did real an interesting theory that the Iran drone might be a Trojan Horse, sent to deliver a virus or something when the Iranians start exploring the electronics. Far fetched but still a possibility.

430 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:05:34pm

re: #425 Obdicut

Maybe next time wait until you've composed that final draft in your head, before typing it out. Then it'll look less like you're cloaking yourself in the victimhood.

By the way, you never responded to this:

You've said the EPA didn't originally 'want' to exempt the dairy farms from the oil spill regulations. Can you explain what you're basing that claim on?

I'm more concerned about not looking like I'm debating in bad faith than concerned about wearing a victim cloak. I was an ass to an ass, and i do normally try not to be. So you're right about that. No big deal.

As to the second part, I responded to it twice. The EPA contended that the butterfat content justified the milk's regulation as petroleum in the case of a spill. After much lobbying and criticism, they made an exemption.

431 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:06:09pm

re: #429 Killgore Trout

Or at least a GPS locator so we can send a missile to blow it up. I did real an interesting theory that the Iran drone might be a Trojan Horse, sent to deliver a virus or something when the Iranians start exploring the electronics. Far fetched but still a possibility.

We're so wasscilly!

432 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:06:22pm

re: #424 Killgore Trout

It's tough talk but I doubt it's all that serious of a threat. They probably can't even detect our drones much less shoot them down. It does look like we're getting ready to start treating Pakistan as a hostile country. It's dangerous but I suppose it was probably inevitable.

Our "allied" status with them was always a marriage of convenience. That we're now both abandoning it should surprise nobody.

433 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:07:57pm

re: #430 Aceofwhat?

As to the second part, I responded to it twice. The EPA contended that the butterfat content justified the milk's regulation as petroleum in the case of a spill. After much lobbying and criticism, they made an exemption.

But that's a false claim, Ace. They never intended it to affect dairy farmers. As soon as they were cognizant of the problem, they took steps so that they wouldn't be affected. Your version of events does not match reality-- it's contradicted by the links you've used.

And can't you just privately think of someone as an ass, without the need to state it repeatedly? What does that actually get you?

434 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:08:17pm

re: #430 Aceofwhat?

As to the second part, I responded to it twice. The EPA contended that the butterfat content justified the milk's regulation as petroleum in the case of a spill. After much lobbying and criticism, they made an exemption.

If what you say is true then why did the EPA label the inclusion of the dairy industry as an "unintended result?" You're asserting something that's not only unsupported but runs counter to the available evidence, the EPA never attempted to "justify" the rule.

435 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:09:14pm

Oops Ackbar!

One person wounded in south Lebanon by rocket

One person was injured in southern Lebanon Sunday when a rocket apparently fired toward Israel hit a Lebanese border village, security sources in Lebanon said.

They said the rocket was fired from the Wadi al-Qaisiyeh area, about 2 km from the frontier and landed in the village of Houla inside Lebanon.

436 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:11:07pm

re: #325 Sergey Romanov

I don't really know what Yahtzee is, but years ago I was a fan of user-made little games, something about Yahtzee and stuff. Very weird, very surrealist, very absurd and very fun.

This one:

[Link: realityonthenorm.info...]

437 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:12:23pm

re: #427 goddamnedfrank

Attempt implies intention, and in this case there simply was none.

See that? Straight from the EPA, unintended result, as in a technical consequence never actually contemplated. It appears that the side effect of the proposed rule was recognized early and temporary exemptions were effected until the rule was formally amended to fix this unforeseen technicality.

Therefore the assertion that the EPA didn't want to exempt the dairy industry is simply untrue.

[Link: www.dairyherd.com...]

Uh-huh. The initial regulation would have applied to milk by accident. How does one accidentally include a thing by name in a regulation?

"oops, i didn't mean to include milk"
"but you wrote milk. right there."
"yep. total accident. i meant to write oil."

438 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:13:32pm

re: #436 Sergey Romanov
This is what Yahtzee is. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

439 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:13:55pm

re: #433 Obdicut

But that's a false claim, Ace. They never intended it to affect dairy farmers. As soon as they were cognizant of the problem, they took steps so that they wouldn't be affected. Your version of events does not match reality-- it's contradicted by the links you've used.

And can't you just privately think of someone as an ass, without the need to state it repeatedly? What does that actually get you?

How do you write a thing into a regulation and then say you never intended to do it?

And sure. I'll try to be bigger than the names. Fair point.

440 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:14:01pm

re: #437 Aceofwhat?

That article you cited doesn't actually support what you just claimed, though.

Why do you think it does?

441 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:14:18pm

re: #438 PhillyPretzel

I know, but thanks. ;)

442 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:14:30pm

re: #439 Aceofwhat?

How do you write a thing into a regulation and then say you never intended to do it?

Because butterfat is, in fact, an oil. Is that the part you don't get?

443 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:15:13pm

re: #440 Obdicut

That article you cited doesn't actually support what you just claimed, though.

Why do you think it does?

"Milk was initially grouped in to the regulations due to the butterfat in milk"

Dude. If it was initially grouped in to the regulations, someone wrote it there. Which is hard to do by accident.

444 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:17:49pm

re: #443 Aceofwhat?

"Milk was initially grouped in to the regulations due to the butterfat in milk"

Dude. If it was initially grouped in to the regulations, someone wrote it there. Which is hard to do by accident.

Due to the butterfat in milk. Because butterfat is, basically, an oil. so the regulation was written with an overbroad definition of 'oil', and the agency recognized this after it was brought to their intention, said "We never meant to regulate milk, our bad", made sure it never affected the dairy industry, and everyone was happy.

Except for the GOP and the Wall Street Journal, which decided to manufacture a controversy out of nowhere and gin up more angst against the EPA.

445 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:18:57pm

re: #435 Killgore Trout

Oops Ackbar!

One person wounded in south Lebanon by rocket

As Maxwell Smart used to say


"Missed, by that much"

446 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:19:07pm

re: #444 Obdicut

So what you're saying is that the Environmental Protection Agency will not apply oil spill regulations to bulk milk tanks, easing concerns of farmers with even modest-sized dairies?

447 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:20:08pm

re: #442 Obdicut

Because butterfat is, in fact, an oil. Is that the part you don't get?

Yes. Because i'm under the impression that butterfat and crude oil/refined petroleum pose quite different environmental hazards. So I'm anxious that our EPA considered, even for a second, regulation to treat them as equally hazardous to the environment.

448 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:22:51pm

re: #444 Obdicut

Due to the butterfat in milk. Because butterfat is, basically, an oil.

That's funny. I thought it was their job to parse out environmental hazards, rather than just lump everything together and say "BAAAD".

Hoooray science

449 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:23:36pm

re: #447 Aceofwhat?

Yes. Because i'm under the impression that butterfat and crude oil/refined petroleum pose quite different environmental hazards. So I'm anxious that our EPA considered, even for a second, regulation to treat them as equally hazardous to the environment.

Dude. What the fuck.

Here:

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

The EPA site says "since the SPCC rule became law in 1973, all kinds of oils including petroleum and edible oils (such as animal fats and vegetable oils) have been considered oils. This is because the SPCC rule gets its definition of ‘oil’ from the Clean Water Act, which was authored by Congress."

The website also notes the rule only applies to farms storing more than 1,320 gallons of oil or milk.

So what’s new? According to the EPA, the only thing that comes close is a rule change it announced on Jan. 15, 2009. It goes in effect at the end of this month.

The simple purpose of the change is to exclude milk and dairy farms from the spill rules governing oil products. That’s the exact opposite of what Griffith claims.

The EPA never intended the rule to affect milk. The reason it did, was beacuse of the legal language in the Clean Water Act, for which the EPA is not responsible. Instead, they used the common sense you're claiming to want them to use, in order to waive the requirement because they well know that it's not as hazardous as oil.

This is an example of regulation done right, being falsely used by Murdoch's Wall Street Journal and other right-wing reactionary outlets to make it look like the opposite is true.

And it's sad to see you fall for it.

450 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:24:33pm

re: #448 Aceofwhat?

That's funny. I thought it was their job to parse out environmental hazards, rather than just lump everything together and say "BAAAD".

Hoooray science

It is. Which is why they exempted it, even though the language in the Clean Water Act, authored by congress, treats them the same. The EPA, however, is smarter than that.

451 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:25:17pm

re: #437 Aceofwhat?

[Link: www.dairyherd.com...]

Uh-huh. The initial regulation would have applied to milk by accident. How does one accidentally include a thing by name in a regulation?

"oops, i didn't mean to include milk"
"but you wrote milk. right there."
"yep. total accident. i meant to write oil."

Your link doesn't show the language of the actual proposed rule, it's just another article asserting that milk was covered and doesn't clarify if this was intentional or unintentional based on the properties of butterfat. In other words you haven't shown that the word milk was included in the regulation, and it's not clear why you would believe this. According to the EPA the SPCC is 'based on the legislative definition of "oil" in the Clean Water Act.' This definition includes animal fats and vegetable oils, hence the need for an exemption.

452 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:28:17pm

Instead of yelling and screaming about this, maybe the congresspeople freaking out about this could have authored a quick fix to the Clean Water Act to clear up the conflation of animal oil in with petroleum.

Though let's be honest, if the GOP were going to write a bill that modified the Clean Water Act, it wouldn't be to improve it.

453 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:29:30pm

re: #452 Obdicut

Instead of yelling and screaming about this, maybe the congresspeople freaking out about this could have authored a quick fix to the Clean Water Act to clear up the conflation of animal oil in with petroleum.

Though let's be honest, if the GOP were going to write a bill that modified the Clean Water Act, it wouldn't be to improve it.

They'd classify it as such. Reasoning such as "It'll save money!" or "It'll create jobs!" or even "It'll make regulating easier!"

454 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:30:06pm

Evening Lizardim. Whole lotta crazy came out in last night's debate, and the worst part of it is, there are people out there that just ate it up. Ugh. The Stupid, it burns.

455 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:30:15pm

re: #450 Obdicut

It is. Which is why they exempted it, even though the language in the Clean Water Act, authored by congress, treats them the same. The EPA, however, is smarter than that.

re: #451 goddamnedfrank

Your link doesn't show the language of the actual proposed rule, it's just another article asserting that milk was covered and doesn't clarify if this was intentional or unintentional based on the properties of butterfat. In other words you haven't shown that the word milk was included in the regulation, and it's not clear why you would believe this. According to the EPA the SPCC is 'based on the legislative definition of "oil" in the Clean Water Act.' This definition includes animal fats and vegetable oils, hence the need for an exemption.

The EPA has been required since 1995 to differentiate between oils. This regulation, initially, did not. See B(2).

[Link: www.epa.gov...]

I gotta go.

456 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:31:10pm

re: #19 albusteve

a union janitor makes more than a union teacher?...now that's just funny

Why? Skilled union trades have always made more than teachers. We're just glad they don't demand that we stay virgins in order to keep our jobs any more.

457 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:31:48pm

re: #443 Aceofwhat?

"Milk was initially grouped in to the regulations due to the butterfat in milk"

Dude. If it was initially grouped in to the regulations, someone wrote it there. Which is hard to do by accident.

it's kinda like how Alabama meant to round up illegal Mexicans with their papers-please law, but their law actually made it so they rounded up Mercedes executives from germany visiting their auto plants

the law never read "Arrest all Mercedes Executives", but that's sure what happened

458 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:32:01pm

re: #452 Obdicut

Instead of yelling and screaming about this, maybe the congresspeople freaking out about this could have authored a quick fix to the Clean Water Act to clear up the conflation of animal oil in with petroleum.

Though let's be honest, if the GOP were going to write a bill that modified the Clean Water Act, it wouldn't be to improve it.

They did. In 1995. It's the Edible Oil Regulatory Reform Act. I'm sure we didn't waste any money or time drafting regulations which didn't follow the law.

Hooray science.

I gotta go.

459 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:32:13pm

re: #452 Obdicut

Apparently the interested parties had a meeting and worked it out.

460 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:32:35pm

re: #457 WindUpBird

it's kinda like how Alabama meant to round up illegal Mexicans with their papers-please law, but their law actually made it so they rounded up Mercedes executives from germany visitng their auto plants

the law never read "Arrest all Mercedes Executives", but that's sure what happened

dammit, that's just plain funny right there. +1

461 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:33:46pm

re: #458 Aceofwhat?

You have not, in the least, at all, in any way, shape, or form, backed up your frankly bizarre and paranoid-seeming claim that the EPA really 'wanted' to regulate milk as though it was oil.

462 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:34:21pm

re: #414 Obdicut

It's not actually obvious, which is why I asked.

Well no, it is obvious, because I have never said anything about "all"-anyone, including "all conservatives". We're in a thread about a very specific audience's response to Prick Perry, Gingrich, gay soldiers, etc.

It's plain as day that is the "they" that is the subject of the thread, not "all conservatives". I'd say "nice try", but it was actually a pretty lazy attempt at cramming the infamous broad brush in my hand.

463 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:35:23pm

re: #461 Obdicut

I'm still curious about the "after nothing happened on the milk spill issue, then what should happen to the EPA" part.

464 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:35:57pm

re: #462 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It isn't plain as day. You can believe it's plain as day, but it honestly confused me, which is why I asked.

I have no idea why you're resistant to the idea of being clearer when you write.

465 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:35:57pm

re: #433 Obdicut

all lawmakers should be able to forsee the future, perhaps with a crystalline orb of some vintage, a deerskin bag of scrying stones, or perhaps a bison skull anointed with the humors of a slain legislative assistant

466 jaunte  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:38:44pm
467 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:42:16pm

re: #411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You have the demeanor of an underfed hog.

Underfed hogs are rather...grumpy?

Just asking. The lizard in question leans heavily in that direction based on mere observation.

468 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:42:54pm

re: #467 eclectic infidel

Underfed hogs are rather...grumpy?

Just asking. The lizard in question leans heavily in that direction based on mere observation.

"Leans"?

469 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:44:26pm

re: #87 BigPapa

I'd rather have Mitt run. He does have a better chance of defeating Obama, but if he did win I think he's not as bad as Gingrich.

This. I do not want Mitt to be president, but just saying aloud "President Romney" does not make me burst into tears or laugh hysterically.

470 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:46:27pm

re: #469 SanFranciscoZionist

This. I do not want Mitt to be president, but just saying aloud "President Romney" does not make me burst into tears or laugh hysterically.

I'd rather have Newt run because I know there's not a chance in hell of him winning. And honestly, even Romney at this point would be a disaster of titanic proportions.

471 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:47:18pm

re: #464 Obdicut

It isn't plain as day. You can believe it's plain as day, but it honestly confused me, which is why I asked.

I have no idea why you're resistant to the idea of being clearer when you write.

e_e

Whenever you start out with that phraseology, it's clear to me you've lapsed into some kind of rhetorical zone. You do this often when trying to, dunno, make some kind of point.

Due to some literalist/pedantic tendencies I've noticed in you, I also do not believe you are truly confused by anything I write. It's not that I think you're lying about it, I just don't believe you. Others do not seem to have this issue with my writing regarding use of the word "confederates", and conservatism.

472 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:48:56pm

re: #155 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Santorum wouldn't be out of place dressed as a Puritan.

Puritans didn't worry so much about premarital sex.

473 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:49:29pm

re: #442 Obdicut

Because butterfat is, in fact, an oil. Is that the part you don't get?

re: #442 Obdicut

Because butterfat is, in fact, an oil. Is that the part you don't get?

And you know what? I bet it makes the land all around it unable to sustain plant life for a long long time. Commercialized milk making is gross.

The support of business and shitty jobs (working at a dairy? Prob all illegals. Shit job.). Rather than basic environmental care. So shortsighted.

Whatever.

474 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:51:39pm

re: #178 right_wing2

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

Guys, if being rude about the other party's incumbent's qualifications gets you eleven down-dings, we're very narrowly limiting the sort of talk we want to hear around here. I'm just saying.

475 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:51:45pm

re: #471 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I can't do much if you don't think I'm being honest. But I am.

476 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:51:45pm

Obviously treating Milk as petroleum is a bad idea. They are very different substances and should be treated differently.

On the flip-side, large quantities of fats, lipids, and sugars entering the local environment can have a huge effect on ecosystem. It should be regulated, just not in the same way as petroleum.

477 funky chicken  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:53:26pm

re: #18 Obdicut

heat building by means of low pressure boilers; maintain HVAC equipment; make minor repairs to steam plant, heating equipment, electrical equipment, plumbing, structure, glazing and furniture;

Yeah, I want my kids attending school in buildings where those functions are performed by their classmates. / What?

478 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:53:47pm

re: #448 Aceofwhat?

That's funny. I thought it was their job to parse out environmental hazards, rather than just lump everything together and say "BAAAD".

Hoooray science

I'm behind, but what you say is response not prevention. Why don't we wait till another Bhopal then put the EPA to work.

Hyperbole?

479 sagehen  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:53:57pm

re: #465 WindUpBird

all lawmakers should be able to forsee the future, perhaps with a crystalline orb of some vintage, a deerskin bag of scrying stones, or perhaps a bison skull anointed with the humors of a slain legislative assistant

HEATHEN!!

Everyone knows it's supposed to be a crystalline prism in a wolfskin bag, and a raccoon skull painted with the blood of a mayor.

480 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:54:04pm

re: #471 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's not that I think you're lying about it, I just don't believe you.

By the way, what the hell is that supposed to mean?

481 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:56:02pm

re: #250 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, no matter how "safe" you advertise a nuke plant right now, the response is going to be "Yeah, you told us that back then too!"

And they did...

There's a point past which people are going to be cautious.

482 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:57:24pm

re: #474 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, if being rude about the other party's incumbent's qualifications gets you eleven down-dings, we're very narrowly limiting the sort of talk we want to hear around here. I'm just saying.

Agreed.

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:58:56pm

re: #376 funky chicken

Never mind the families who would lose their source of income and health insurance when the "overpaid" janitors are let go.

So, onto welfare, food stamps, and medicaid they all go...so Newt and his creepy friends can fill their jobs with minimum wage kids.

Oh, and janitors work during summers and school holidays, and nights and weekends when needed.

The thing is, it will never happen, and Newt know it. This isn't even something a president would or could make happen. It's just a revenge fantasy.

(And in the fantasy, I'm sure the kids work summer and school holidays and nights and weekends. They also sleep in the broom closet.)

484 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 3:59:09pm

re: #480 Obdicut

By the way, what the hell is that supposed to mean?

You're not lying
I just don't believe your truthiness!!

485 funky chicken  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:05:52pm

re: #470 thedopefishlives

I'd rather have Newt run because I know there's not a chance in hell of him winning. And honestly, even Romney at this point would be a disaster of titanic proportions.

Oh, I'm not as sure as you are that Gingrich would lose. I'd hope that women would vote against the guy in a big way, but people are kinda crazy these days.

486 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:07:05pm

re: #475 Obdicut

I can't do much if you don't think I'm being honest. But I am.

I didn't say I don't think you're not being honest. That's 100% your terminology. I didn't use it.

There was no need to clamor to the defense of "all conservatives" from anything I said in this or any other thread. My "writing" on these matters has not been ambiguous, despite your recent protests. If they are perceived that way, I suspect it's because people are looking to be broad-brushed when they have not been. It's very fashionable, these days, fake victimhood.

487 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:08:57pm

re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist

The thing is, it will never happen, and Newt know it. This isn't even something a president would or could make happen. It's just a revenge fantasy.

(And in the fantasy, I'm sure the kids work summer and school holidays and nights and weekends. They also sleep in the broom closet.)

It's occurred to me that most people do not read "Oliver Twist" as a how-to manual, but Newt appears to.

488 funky chicken  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:09:30pm

re: #178 right_wing2

I'm sick of not being able to find a candidate worth voting for. It's not just the last election cycle or two this has happened, either. It's been 20+ years since I was able to vote for candidate 'X' rather than against candidate 'Y'.

The Republicans aren't very good this time around, but Obama's not qualified to lead a parade.

By definition, the only guy who will be qualified to be POTUS in this election will be Obama, right? He's going to be the only one who has done the job. Romney can claim executive experience, and Gingrich (shudder) can claim governing experience, but neither has done as big a job as POTUS.

489 allegro  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:10:19pm

re: #474 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, if being rude about the other party's incumbent's qualifications gets you eleven down-dings, we're very narrowly limiting the sort of talk we want to hear around here. I'm just saying.

Perhaps if there was any actual discussion of a legitimate point of qualifications, policies, etc. the comment would have been better received. The statement "Obama's not qualified to lead a parade" along with an inability to articulate a single factor upon which to base such a statement when requested to do so is not a terribly constructive addition. It's just a Limbaugh/Fox spew. If that is a narrow limit, I will vote for it every time.

490 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:14:42pm

re: #486 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I didn't say I don't think you're not being honest. That's 100% your terminology. I didn't use it.

You said this bullshit:

It's not that I think you're lying about it, I just don't believe you.

Please explain what is i you think I'm doing, if not lying, if you don't believe what I'm saying.

See, not believing what someone says is saying that they're lying. Or are you just being massively patronizing and saying that I don't know I'm lying?

If they are perceived that way, I suspect it's because people are looking to be broad-brushed when they have not been. It's very fashionable, these days, fake victimhood.

See, that explanation won't work in my case, since I'm not a conservative and don't consider myself one.

If all you mean to attack is dumb confederates, then why even include the word 'conservative'? Are you worried about distinguishing between the conservative confederates and all those liberal confederates?

491 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:22:09pm

re: #490 Obdicut

You said this bullshit:

Please explain what is i you think I'm doing, if not lying, if you don't believe what I'm saying.

No need to get upset, obdicut. When someone says the universe was created when Lord Brahma uttered the word "Om", I don't think they are lying, I just don't believe them. Same thing.

See, that explanation won't work in my case, since I'm not a conservative and don't consider myself one.

Never said you are, and I know you don't consider yourself one. Which is why I personally don't think they need your defense, but that's your own thing.

If all you mean to attack is dumb confederates, then why even include the word 'conservative'? Are you worried about distinguishing between the conservative confederates and all those liberal confederates?

If you'd like to see what I have to say about liberal confederates, take a gander at my site and my "writings" on people like Cynthia McKlanny and others dedicated to trying to educate us blacks out of voting for Obama.

492 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:25:45pm

re: #484 sattv4u2

You're not lying
I just don't believe your truthiness!!

"The President did not lie. He just made false denials."

- affectionately remembered when a talking head for Clinton was asked about the President's seemingly less-than-honest answers on the witness stand

493 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:26:05pm

re: #491 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No need to get upset, obdicut. When someone says the universe was created when Lord Brahma uttered the word "Om", I don't think they are lying, I just don't believe them. Same thing.

But what I said is that I didn't understand whether you were referring to all conservatives. That's entirely different. Obviously. Why pretend otherwise? I don't get it.

If you'd like to see what I have to say about liberal confederates, take a gander at my site and my "writings" on people like Cynthia McKlanny and others dedicated to trying to educate us blacks out of voting for Obama.

Please explain how those are 'confederates'. Again, it seems your use of that term is so bizarrely broad as to be meaningless.

494 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:28:55pm

re: #493 Obdicut

it seems your use of that term is so bizarrely broad as to be meaningless.

DING DING DING DING

Give that man a Kewpie doll!!

495 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:29:52pm

re: #494 sattv4u2

How would you know?

496 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:30:46pm

re: #495 Obdicut

How would you know?

About what


Kewpie dolls?

Worked in a carnival as a kid one sumnmer

497 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:32:30pm

re: #496 sattv4u2

About an accurate description of 'confederate'. Hell, you didn't even understand progressive taxation-- maybe still don't. You're not exactly the go-to guy on facts and logic.

498 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:36:34pm

re: #497 Obdicut

About an accurate description of 'confederate'. Hell, you didn't even understand progressive taxation-- maybe still don't. You're not exactly the go-to guy on facts and logic.

Ahh ,, ,see there. Make one mistatement in a time of personal turmoil and that means I musn;t know anything about anything

Care to expound for us again how Micheal Newdow wanted to go to the Supreme Court so only HIS daughter didn't have to say the pledge in school??

499 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:37:53pm

re: #497 Obdicut
Upon being shown the error of your way, I do believe your response was "do go on"

Ahh ,,,, memories

500 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:38:54pm

re: #493 Obdicut

But what I said is that I didn't understand whether you were referring to all conservatives. That's entirely different. Obviously. Why pretend otherwise? I don't get it.

That I've ever referred to "all conservatives" in this thread or any other is the pretension.

Please explain how those are 'confederates'. Again, it seems your use of that term is so bizarrely broad as to be meaningless.

As an example, you might want to take a look at Cynthia McKinney's latest exploits with giving interviews to assholes like Darryl Bradford Smith and American Free Press/Willis Carto, and her faction of leftists' cavorting with extremist anti-Israel paleoconservatism, mostly via the 9/11 trooth moovement. That guy Gilad Atzmon, though obviously not an American "confederate", is in the same boat, or at least tour circuit. There is a direct connection, especially since some of that crowd is connected with the Luap Nor/lewrockwell rwnj right.

They recruit on the left. Some people on the left do fall for it, hook/line/sinker. I don't think this is a new topic around here.

501 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:42:53pm

re: #500 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That I've ever referred to "all conservatives" in this thread or any other is the pretension.

And I didn't claim that you did. I said your phraseology made it sound as though you might be referring to all conservatives, so you might want to avoid such confusion.

Why are you saying that I claimed you referred to "all conservatives?"

As an example, you might want to take a look at Cynthia McKinney's latest exploits with giving interviews to assholes like Darryl Bradford Smith and American Free Press/Willis Carto, and her faction of leftist's cavorting with extremist anti-Israel paleoconservatism, mostly via the 9/11 trooth moovement. That guy Gilad Atzmon, though obviously not an American "confederate", is in the same boat, or at least tour circuit. There is a direct connection, especially since some of that crowd is connected with the Luap Nor/lewrockwell rwnj right.

They recruit on the left. Some people on the left do fall for it, hook/line/sinker. I don't think this is a new topic around here.

Ah. So she's a confederate because she associates with some confederates. Not because she has actual confederate views?

502 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:51:03pm

re: #498 sattv4u2

Ahh ,, ,see there. Make one mistatement in a time of personal turmoil and that means I musn;t know anything about anything

It wasn't one misstatement. We went over it length. You clearly didn't know how progressive taxation worked. Feel free to bullshit yourself about it, but don't waste your time trying to bullshit me.

503 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:54:26pm

re: #502 Obdicut

It wasn't one misstatement. We went over it length. You clearly didn't know how progressive taxation worked. Feel free to bullshit yourself about it, but don't waste your time trying to bullshit me.

No,,, YOU went "over it in length", mostly with NJD

504 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:56:09pm

re: #503 sattv4u2

No,,, YOU went "over it in length", mostly with NJD

As I said, don't waste your time.

505 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 4:57:26pm

re: #504 Obdicut

As I said, don't waste your time.

Wouldn't that be my decision to make?

So ,,, tell me all about Mr Newdow and his efforts!

506 sagehen  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 5:24:53pm

re: #487 SanFranciscoZionist

It's occurred to me that most people do not read "Oliver Twist" as a how-to manual, but Newt appears to.

I didn't remember until it was brought up by some TV pundit, but... about 15-20 years ago, Newt got himself in trouble by suggesting that instead of welfare or food stamps or public housing, we should just anybody who can't take care of their kids take them away, send them to orphanages and don't help the parents at all -- if the parents end up freezing/starving to death by the side of the road that's their problem, society only owes assistance to the kids and they're better off in state care anyway.

507 palomino  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 5:37:14pm

re: #474 SanFranciscoZionist

Guys, if being rude about the other party's incumbent's qualifications gets you eleven down-dings, we're very narrowly limiting the sort of talk we want to hear around here. I'm just saying.

But if the extent of the substance of one's critique is limited to "Obama sucks", is it really a big loss?

508 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 5:42:43pm

re: #225 WindUpBird

when it comes to canadian beer, I drink me a lot of Unibroue *_*

Quebec=little belgium, as far as beer is concerned

On this we can agree. Delicious stuff.

509 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 5:47:21pm

re: #508 Romantic Heretic

On this we can agree. Delicious stuff.

I thought Unibroue meant One EyeBrow!!

//

510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 6:22:44pm

re: #501 Obdicut

I said your phraseology made it sound as though you might be referring to all conservatives,

No, it didn't, the thread topic didn't; I wasn't, never have been.

I'm not sure how many more times I need to say this.

Why are you saying that I claimed you referred to "all conservatives?"

e_e tedious on purpose.

I didn't say that. You asked if I did, even while it was clear that I didn't. If the answers don't satisfy you, I'm not sure what else to tell you, because I doubt any answer I give ever will.

I'm fine with that.

Ah. So she's a confederate because she associates with some confederates. Not because she has actual confederate views?

I believe she's starting to share confederate views with them, if that's your question. To reiterate the broader point, yes, there such a thing as "liberal confederates" in my view (even though I believe you were simply trying to get cute with that phrase, because "conservative confederates" made you bristle.)

511 funky chicken  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 6:23:02pm

re: #506 sagehen

Here ya go:
[Link: articles.baltimoresun.com...]

Newt's big idea, circa 1994.

512 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 11, 2011 6:56:40pm

re: #510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No, it didn't, the thread topic didn't; I wasn't, never have been.

I'm not sure how many more times I need to say this.

You only need to say it once. I understand it's your opinion. I disagree. You apparently think what you wrote is clear to everyone else. I don't know why.

To reiterate the broader point, yes, there such a thing as "liberal confederates" in my view (even though I believe you were simply trying to get cute with that phrase, because "conservative confederates" made you bristle.)

And that's why you said 'conservative confederates'? To distinguish them from liberal confederates? You're actually going with that explanation?

You don't take criticism well, and it leads you into some pretty bizarre places.

e_e tedious on purpose.

No, seriously, why did you claim that? I never said you said all conservatives, I said that your phraseology could be read that way. I fully accept you didn't mean all conservatives.

This is going to come up again, as it's come up before.

513 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Dec 12, 2011 8:01:37am

re: #211 erik_t

re: #196 right_wing2

Simple. I look at the direction we've taken in the last few years, since he was elected.


Uh.

Well to be fair, I think he meant 'complexion' not 'direction'. But facts be damned.

514 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Dec 12, 2011 8:30:13am

re: #302 aagcobb

I think you are way underestimating the nimby factor.

And the disposal of the waste.

515 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Dec 12, 2011 9:52:56am

re: #361 sattv4u2

There were no regulations prior to agencies??
I did not know that!

Just burning rivers!


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