1 | freetoken Tue, Apr 24, 2012 9:27:22pm |
Livin' easy and lovin' the loquat...
2 | sagehen Tue, Apr 24, 2012 9:29:56pm |
On my way to grocery store, I noticed election bunting in my lobby. I said "ah, I didn't know there was an election today."
"Just for Republicans," said the woman, looking up from her crossword puzzle. "It's their primary."
I said okay, I'll vote.
"Just for Republicans."
"Yes, that's me."
"Oh. Okay." Sideways glance. "Name please?"
"Yeah, I know, it's embarrassing now. But the party didn't used to be this whacko. Are there not many of us left?"
"About 60 in this precinct."
There's more than 600 apartments in my building, close to a thousand adult citizens. (Upper West Side, why do you ask? Does it mean anything that my zip code voted for Obama by an even wider margin than Harlem?).
Sadly, Huntsman wasn't on the ballot and there was no space for a write-in. My options were Romney, Santorum, Gingrich and Paul. No other races. Just that one. I hate them all, but I voted Santorum in the hopes it would make Romney uncomfortable. What a waste of a primary.
And now I've outed myself as an R, my doorman will forever think less of me.
3 | Summer Lovin' Torture Party Tue, Apr 24, 2012 9:54:09pm |
I saw The Black Keys in concert tonight, but this video just blew my experience away. Thanks, Charles.
5 | engineer cat Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:16:33pm |
6 | engineer cat Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:19:34pm |
re: #5 engineer cat
EMO Clothing retailing their fine line of anti-obama shirts on Amazon
charming
hatewear, isn't it great?
i'll go look for their line of bush or romney insult shirts...
7 | AK-47% Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:19:41pm |
re: #5 engineer cat
EMO Clothing retailing their fine line of anti-obama shirts on Amazon
charming
Looking more closely, there are both pro-and anti-Obama clothing items on sale. And nothing in the way of anti-O clothing is particularly offensive, unlike the "Dont Re-Nig 2012" shirts and stickers being offered from other sources.
These guys are just being capitalists and meeting demand with supply.
Let's hope they create some jobs.
8 | engineer cat Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:22:35pm |
re: #7 Expand Your Ground
Looking more closely, there are both pro-and anti-Obama clothing items on sale. And nothing in the was of anti-O clothing is particularly offensive, unlike the "Dont Re-Nig 2012" shirts and stickers being offered from other sources These guys are just being capitalists and meeting demand with supply.
Let's hope they create some jobs.
i find the shirts offensive, and i can't find any pro obama or anti bush or romney shirts
can you show me how to find the pro-obama or anti bush or anti romney shirts?
9 | Mocking Jay Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:24:15pm |
10 | Kragar Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:27:18pm |
N. Korea: 'Mobile weapons' can strike U.S.
Vice Marshal Ri Yong Ho emphasized the importance of defending the North against the U.S. and South Korea as Pyongyang marked the 80th anniversary of the nation's army Wednesday.
He told officials at the April 25 House of Culture that the weapons could defeat the U.S. "at a single blow."
I'm thinking North Korea is just part of a clever marketing scheme for the Red Dawn remake.
11 | engineer cat Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:27:34pm |
picture of obama, caption: "One Big Ass Mistake, America"
(it's the letters of his name, see?)
i find it offensive. you couldn't call it political commentary, it's just a vulgar insult
i have yet to see any manufacturers in this country "create jobs" with shirts with vulgar slogans insulting republican presidents
12 | AK-47% Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:29:59pm |
re: #8 engineer cat
i find the shirts offensive, and i can't find any pro obama or anti bush or romney shirts
can you show me how to find the pro-obama or anti bush or anti romney shirts?
There are several "elect Obama" shirts in the selection, but no anti-Bush or Romney ones, though. I find some of them tasteless, but nothing blatantly racist or offensive.
And a "Dead Osama Bin Laden" T-shirt is more or less pro-Obama. We all know who was behind getting him...
13 | AK-47% Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:35:53pm |
Like I said, they're just capitalists. Supply and demand and all.
I find some of their articles tasteless or even midly offensive, but nothing racist or even indirectly extolling violence
14 | Mocking Jay Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:37:04pm |
Best Obama appearance ever?
15 | sagehen Tue, Apr 24, 2012 11:51:41pm |
Vidder's Summary: In the beginning, there was Sherlock Holmes. And Holmes brought forth the brilliant doctor House, embodied by the lovely Hugh Laurie. Who prior to that in Fortysomething played a slightly less brilliant doctor, Paul Slippery, who begat three sons, the eldest of which was played by the equally-lovely-if-somewhat-peculiarly-named Benedict Cumberbatch. Who of course grew up to play Sherlock. And the Universe looked upon its work and pronounced it good. And then my head exploded.
16 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:33:10am |
In case Sergey shows up later, or for anyone else following the fall out over Ehrman's latest book Did Jesus Exist?, the S/N ratio isn't improving but there are some substantive (even in the negative sense) blog entries out there popping up.
First, lending a bit of credence to the accusation that Erhman is just helping religious people find comfort (and somehow thus he is just feathering his own nest for future book sales), is Ehrman showing up at the Home Brewed Christianity (a self declared "progressive" Christian blog, thus non-Fundamentalists), and to my ears sounds a bit disingenuous. There's a whole interview at their blog entry:
Bart Ehrman on Jesus’ Existence, Apocalypticism & Holy Week
What I find objectionable about what Ehrman does in that interview (and some of his supporters do likewise) is not being upfront that he himself believes that a great share of the NT is "myth", maybe as much as 90% of the stuff written about Jesus, but he doesn't present himself as such to these liberal Christians.
Other entries around the net that might be worth checking out (though I am not at all vouching or endorsing some of the statements therein):
Vridar has a series going, e.g.:
5. Earl Doherty’s Response to Bart Ehrman’s Case Against Mythicism: A Roman Trio
and
Fight Club! Historical Jesus Scholars Take On the Christ Mythicists!
The latter is a take on Joseph Hoffman's:
Mythtic Pizza and Cold-cocked Scholars
Ehrman (or his publisher) got himself interviewed for the widely disseminated Religion Dispatches:
Inventing Jesus: An Interview with Bart Ehrman
Finally, outside of academia, there is a spreading interest in the topic, for example from this former pastor (now someone in the process of de-conversion):
Contest for Commenters
There's a lot more out there, like so much on the internet this kind of thing mutates and multiplies greatly.
17 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:36:11am |
I have no problem with Jesus' existence. Where Christianity ends with me is the Resurrection. Either he died and stayed dead or he did *not* die on the cross (I wanna see the long-form death certificate), recovered and ws spirited away, so to speak.
I understand that religion goes beyond rational thought and logic , but I cannot accept any religion that requires me to actively suspend or contradict rational thought and logic.
18 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:39:24am |
re: #17 Expand Your Ground
WRT the current argument over Ehrman and this whole concept, I'm disappointed that so many people are not being really transparent. Starting with Ehrman. If he really wanted to right a good book on the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth then he could have done so, but instead he just whipped out a shoddy piece, part of what is turning out to be an annual production of books with sensationalist titles.
19 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:40:28am |
re: #16 freetoken
Thanks for the links!
Have you read the first part of Ehrman's response to Carrier? I gotta side with Carrier on the Priapus issue. What Ehrman said was factually true, but what he communicated was not.
20 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:42:58am |
re: #19 Standard, Yet Pretty
This is the core of my heartburn over Ehrman: he's written his book specifically to craft a narrative, in this case to pick a fight with what he sees as a collaboration between the "neo-athiests" (his term he uses in that interview at Home Brewed Christianity) and the mythicists to pull a Dan Brown type of thing on people.
However, what has resulted from all of this is that Erhman bases so much of his book on a fallacy: authority. He simply repeats that he is an expert and that the other experts agree with him, so there!
21 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:48:03am |
re: #20 freetoken
Heh. I see from the links you gave that something is brewing indeed (with scholars responding to Carrier's response to Ehrman), so I'm glad that Ehrman started it. It's a catalyst for an amusing discussion, if nothing else. Sometimes it's good to drag a humanities discipline out of stewing in its own juices and into the debate boxing ring for a round or two, as long as both sides are scholars.
22 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:48:05am |
BTW, Erhman's own conclusion, in his book, is that we've not come much farther than Albert Schweitzer. IMO, one might as well read Schweitzer and you'll be 95% of the way to being up to speed, the last 5% being what we've learnt from archeology in the mean time, especially the Dead Sea Scrolls, about life in early 1st century Palestine.
It's just that the "answer" is so scary to such a big part of our society that we've been spending the decades after Schweitzer try to soft peddle it.
23 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:50:47am |
Of course, when those scholars say dumb things like
For those of you not paying attention, the New Atheism has a new postulate: Not only does God not exist but Jesus didn’t exist either.
- they're being naughty and deserve to be spanked.
24 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:52:36am |
re: #23 Standard, Yet Pretty
It's too scary for the alternate to be true.
"Jesus" is an industry, and not just for Fundamentalists.
For example, in self declared liberal or progressive Christians, or universalists, or just moralists, the incantation of "Jesus" lends weight to their cries for social justice, etc.
25 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:54:21am |
re: #24 freetoken
Yeah, "Jesus was a hippie" is as much of a myth as the fundie view of Jesus.
26 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:56:06am |
re: #25 Standard, Yet Pretty
Yeah, "Jesus was a communist hippie" is as much of a myth as the fundie view of Jesus.
That's a popular one.
27 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:56:32am |
re: #24 freetoken
Of course, the Communist party here tries to appropriate Jesus too - he was the first Communist, don't you know.
28 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:56:51am |
re: #26 freetoken
Oops ;)
30 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:58:00am |
re: #29 researchok
Greetings, Comrade.
32 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:59:28am |
When I was a teenager I read an Irving Wallace novel called "The Word", which is about an elaborate plot to forge a "lost Gospel" and pawn it off on the world.
Although a fictional work, it goes on at great length about the history and archaeology of Biblical research and presents the various schools of thought on Jesus.
To a teenager raised on a combination of Catholicism and born-again Jesus-freakism, it was pretty mind-blowing.
33 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 12:59:55am |
Alessio Nanni, the pianist whose video I linked earlier, also did the music to a short video a few years ago, which looks at modern life based on the writings of an islander visiting Italy:
34 | researchok Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:01:08am |
I see the Ehrman exchanges continue.
Well, he's nothing if not a lightning rod.
35 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:01:31am |
At times when I'm searching through the internet I sort of feel like the main character in that video.
36 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:01:49am |
re: #34 researchok
I see the Ehrman exchanges continue.
Well, he's nothing if not a lightning rod.
It's good for business. ;)
37 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:03:17am |
re: #27 Standard, Yet Pretty
Of course, the Communist party here tries to appropriate Jesus too - he was the first Communist, don't you know.
Remember that Bulgakov's 1920's masterpiece "The Master and Margarita" also goes on at length about the story of Jesus and his crucifixion.
My favorite scene is still when Jesus tries to explain to Pilate how that Matthew Levite fellow keeps following him around, writing things down on a goatskin, and that Jesus had a look at the goatskin and said "Matthew, you're getting it all wrong! Just burn the goatskin and listen to what I say!"
38 | researchok Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:05:07am |
re: #36 Standard, Yet Pretty
Good point- and valid.
I went to hear him twice.
He's clearly a smart guy, but like Juan Cole of Ann Arbor, he talks down to his audience and tolerates little in the way of disagreement.
The ex evangelical is the new messiah- or so he has been described.
39 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 1:05:37am |
re: #37 Expand Your Ground
It even starts with a debate on Jesus' historicity ;)
41 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 2:11:31am |
One unexpected spin-off from this Ehrman stuff is that it seems our old friend Robert Spencer has jumped on the bandwagon with a twist:
42 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 2:19:38am |
This is great - over at Frontpage, which ran the Spencer piece and is pushing the book pamphlet, there are almost 500 comments, but over half of them are in response to this simple (and well played) comment:
crackerjack · 2 days ago
Did Jesus exist? Abraham, Moses, Saul or David? Religious figures are made up of legend, folklore and centuries of manipulation through the religious establishment.And theose......."quintessential and powerful Western ideals", didn't prevent the Holocaust, World Wars, slavery etc.
Quite a few of the Frontpage faithful doing backflips to try and defend Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Saul, and David while damning any possibility of existence of Mohammad.
43 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 2:21:07am |
re: #41 freetoken
One unexpected spin-off from this Ehrman stuff is that it seems our old friend Robert Spencer has jumped on the bandwagon with a twist:
of course there is going to be a discrepancy between the historical figure and the religious/mythical figure, but this rule applies to everyone from Alexander the Great to Ronald Reagan....
44 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 2:34:56am |
Eric MacDonald summarizes clearly one of my beefs in Let’s get specific, shall we?:
[...] Much of the to-and-froing about the historical Jesus seems to come down to academic qualifications and whether those engaged in the discussion have written a book, or are tenured academics, or have the requisite expertise, or not, as the case may be, something that seems to take up as much space as the arguments themselves. And while, of course, one expects people to use critical methods in their study of anything at all, if they want to approach more closely to the truth, this is not comprehensively dealt with by listing a person’s academic credentials.
[...]
Furthermore, I'm coming to a conclusion that a great deal of the haranguing over this issue and latest book is because Classics and humanities subjects in general are coming under attack by the funders of academia, eliminating whole departments (such as Classical Studies). I suspect that the ever underlying pressure to publish, to show relevancy, if firing up the debate.
My take is that everything that can be said about the the evidence has been said, probably a thousand different ways. The only reason to write more would be if new evidence is discovered (say the Talpiot tomb, if that were indeed real and applicable and it may not be.) There is also a huge library of privately held manuscripts and papyri which could have new information, and one was alluded to recently in a debate Ehrman had, and such evidence might be worth re-examining this debate.
But, if all these self-adoring scholars are doing is debating for the millionth time which portion of Mark or Luke is historical and which parts are inventions - well, doing that is just trying to merchandise "Jesus".
45 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 2:37:30am |
Science and history has a hard time being objective when it comes to discussing almost anything, and when it comes to religion is is all but impossible to come up with a non-partisan approach.
A beliver and a non-believer will often look at the same evidence and and come to opposite conclusions.
46 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:10:01am |
re: #41 freetoken
Spencer has half of a point in regard to unreliability of sources about the details of Muhammad's life, although that seems to be a common place in modern scholarship.
I tried to *ahem* acquire this source and failed so far (it's not in Ebrary or elsewhere).
[Link: www.brill.nl...]
47 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:24:52am |
re: #45 Expand Your Ground
I don't really think that's quite accurate. Have you read Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea"?
48 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:27:28am |
re: #42 freetoken
That's the thing. I have no problem saying that Mohammed may not have existed, though it seems a far remoter possibility than Jesus not existing, given the non-Muslim contemporary sources. But, granting that he did exist, it's still obvious that much of his life was mythologized.
But the same reasons I use to discern that are true for Jesus, and truer and truer for every religious figure the farther we go back in history. One of the main things that the highly religious like to point to as a sign of credibility-- the age of their religions-- also means that almost nothing can really be known about the historical personages and events their religion claims to be true.
49 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:30:30am |
re: #48 Obdicut
One of the main things that the highly religious like to point to as a sign of credibility-- the age of their religions-- also means that almost nothing can really be known about the historical personages and events their religion claims to be true.
Heheheh. True, that.
50 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:36:38am |
51 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:37:41am |
re: #47 Obdicut
I don't really think that's quite accurate. Have you read Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea"?
have not.
but at lest in my anecdotal experience, for every person who sees no conflict between belief in a creator and evolution as a mechanism, there are people whose literalist interpretation of scriptures causes them to reject evolution outright, and other radical athiests who insist that evolution not only needs to prime mover, but refutes the existence of the same.
52 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:38:19am |
In thinking of doing a Page to summarize all this Ehrman DJE stuff... and found my posts exceed the 35000 character limit! If I do it the task will be in paring down.
53 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:40:18am |
re: #50 freetoken
Oh, I know about that. Previews can be useful, but not in this case.
54 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:40:38am |
re: #46 Standard, Yet Pretty
My search shows that 370 libraries have it, including the local UCSD library.
55 | freetoken Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:42:05am |
Oops, that should be USD:
[Link: sally.sandiego.edu...]
If I was really interested in Islam I'd check it out, but I'm not.
56 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:43:46am |
re: #54 freetoken
Anyway, this article is actually quite interesting, even though it comes from a purely apologetic (but still quite intelligent) author:
[Link: www.islamic-awareness.org...]
If anything, it makes the best "pro" case.
57 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:47:16am |
re: #51 Expand Your Ground
other radical athiests who insist that evolution not only needs to prime mover, but refutes the existence of the same.
See, I've never met or read a radical atheist who asserted that. All of the "new athiests" and the like that I've read or met have asserted there is no need to ever resort to a mystical or supernatural explanation. I'm about as hardcore an atheist as I know, personally, and even I don't think you can 'refute' the existence of a prime mover/god, more just that if there is some prime mover, we know absolutely nothing about it, and have no way of knowing more.
58 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:57:34am |
re: #57 Obdicut
Quentin Smith made an atheological argument that posits that given our state of knowledge, we can say that our universe necessarily came into existence uncaused (he argues through quantum mechanics), and thus excludes the first cause. Not convincing, but an example of the argument that is made.
[Link: www.infidels.org...]
59 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 3:59:01am |
re: #57 Obdicut
See, I've never met or read a radical atheist who asserted that. All of the "new athiests" and the like that I've read or met have asserted there is no need to ever resort to a mystical or supernatural explanation. I'm about as hardcore an atheist as I know, personally, and even I don't think you can 'refute' the existence of a prime mover/god, more just that if there is some prime mover, we know absolutely nothing about it, and have no way of knowing more.
Sorry, did not proof my response: "...radical athiests insist that evolutin needs no prime mover"
I know some raadical athiests who also have some serious issues with religion in general and reflexively reject anything associated with it.
60 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:03:49am |
re: #59 Expand Your Ground
Oh, evolution needs no prime mover? Well, of course it doesn't. I'm not sure what you mean by that, though.
I know some raadical athiests who also have some serious issues with religion in general and reflexively reject anything associated with it.
Well, again, I'm not really sure what you mean. I reflexively reject anything that's based on supernatural knowledge or assertions, because it's unprovable at best. But i'm not sure what you mean by 'associated with it'. For example, I don't know anyone that rejects Newton's laws of physics, even though he thought that he was describing god's laws.
61 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:09:01am |
I know some folks sho reject any notion of God out of general principles. I don't. I see them as something that lies outside of science.
62 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:12:38am |
re: #61 Expand Your Ground
I know some folks sho reject any notion of God out of general principles. I don't. I see them as something that lies outside of science.
Again, it depends what you mean. If someone says 'god exists', my first question usually is "what do you mean by 'god'?" If they describe him with the vaguest of attributes, in the Russel's Teapot fashion or the deist fashion, just the unmoved mover who kicked everything off but nothing else about him is know, then, well, sure, it's possible, there's no evidence for it, but it's untestable and has no effect on anyone's life, so who cares?
If they start asserting certain things about him-- that he's loving, that he hates gay sex, that he wants me to give money to someone-- then I'm going to ask how they know this, and usually I'll reject their explanation of that as endlessly circular.
63 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:13:22am |
re: #61 Expand Your Ground
I know some folks sho reject any notion of God out of general principles. I don't. I see them as something that lies outside of science.
I don't see a problem with those who argue for non-existence of the most "popular" types of god at least, based on logical inconsistencies in definitions.
64 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:14:49am |
re: #58 Standard, Yet Pretty
Ah, there's one. Well, I'd semi-agree with him that the amount of evil and savagery in the world, human and natural, is pretty solid proof that no 'loving' god exists. But that's taking the argument too far for me anyway; there's never a reason to suppose god does exist in the first place, so I don't see the point of those arguments, really.
65 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:20:02am |
re: #63 Standard, Yet Pretty
To use a silly example, it's easy to disprove the Candyman, who's a supernatural entity. You just have to say "Candyman" in front of a mirror five times, and, when the Candyman fails to appear, you've disproved the central contention of his existence.
66 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:25:29am |
re: #65 Obdicut
That is, of course, if the definition is somehow tied to the real world/verifiable. The usual definition of a theistic/deistic God is tied to this world only through omnibenevolence (hence the problem of evil). But then, if we remove this attribute, it's still God, it's still an omnipotent creator, maybe even utterly evil one. Then one can still search for the clash between the attributes.
67 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:30:41am |
re: #65 Obdicut
To use a silly example, it's easy to disprove the Candyman, who's a supernatural entity. You just have to say "Candyman" in front of a mirror five times, and, when the Candyman fails to appear, you've disproved the central contention of his existence.
Dude! Don't do that!!!!
//
68 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:30:56am |
God (according to John Lennon) is "a concept by which we measure our pain"
I refuse to acdept the concept that my pain can be measured, as it is immeasurable at this point...
He also does not believe in the Beatles, so I refuse to accept the existence of the Beatles. WHich is easily proven,. When is the last time they released an album?
And when is the last time God released a new scripture?
69 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:32:44am |
re: #67 Darth Vader Gargoyle
I not only have done that, during my time in the theater at U of C, I got an entire audience to say it while looking into the enormous mirror that was the backdrop for the set.
That was a fun show.
70 | Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:33:35am |
re: #68 Expand Your Ground
God (according to John Lennon) is "a concept by which we measure our pain"
I refuse to acdept the concept that my pain can be measured, as it is immeasurable at this point...He also does not believe in the Beatles, so I refuse to accept the existence of the Beatles. WHich is easily proven,. When is the last time they released an album?
And when is the last time God released a new scripture?
Releasing a Scripture 2.0 or 3.0 would nullify previous versions, and mean that the Deity is fallible, therefore not worthy of adulation.
71 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:33:37am |
re: #68 Expand Your Ground
Religions have really gone downhill since they stopped having prophets.
72 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:33:55am |
re: #70 Learned Mother of Zion
Releasing a Scripture 2.0 or 3.0 would nullify previous versions, and mean that the Deity is fallible, therefore not worthy of adulation.
Could he at least do a FAQ?
73 | Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:34:38am |
74 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:50:46am |
re: #71 Obdicut
Religions have really gone downhill since they stopped having prophets.
Yes, but they get a tax exemption for being non-prophet organizations.
re: #70 Learned Mother of Zion
Releasing a Scripture 2.0 or 3.0 would nullify previous versions, and mean that the Deity is fallible, therefore not worthy of adulation.
I believe that is the argument that Judaism uses against Christianity...
75 | Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 25, 2012 4:54:17am |
76 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:02:37am |
Denmark’s Union of Conscientiously Work-Shy Elements promised tailwinds on all cycle paths.
77 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:07:17am |
We advocate
[1] guns for those who want them, no guns
forced on those who don't want them (pacfists, Quakers etc.)
[2] drugs for those who want them,
no drugs forced on those who don't want them (Christian Scientists etc.)
[3] an end to Tsarism and a return to constitutional democracy
[4] equal rights for ostriches.
79 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:11:28am |
re: #78 Obdicut
Ostrich?
80 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:14:45am |
re: #79 Standard, Yet Pretty
Ostriches appear to be key to the plans of the Guns and Dope Party.
WHY OLGA REMAINS ESSENTIAL
Olga remains essential to the serious, scientific and sincerely surrealist aspects of the Guns and Dope Party. Personal liberty, scientific and medical freedom, the rights of Imagination: all these appear dead or dying under the tyranny of Tsarism, and we all need to fight back "by any means necessary." After all, this may become the last -- the very last -- battle for individual rights in this moribund Republic, before rampant medievalism closes down the democratic age.
NONETHELESS, we all need Olga also. Without her, we might take ourselves -- and featherless biped politics in general -- too damned seriously, following the usual "slippery slope" downward from Ideology to Idiocy. We need the perspectives of our feathered cousins, no matter how weird they may sound at times.
Thus, while we stand beside the NRA in strict adherence to the second amendment, we oppose what Jimmy Breslin called "poor usage of a revolver." We also oppose poor usage of napalm, bazookas, shrapnel, automatic rifles, nukes, etc. Common Errors in Usage of all of these seem rampant in the Tsarist States, not only by the Goober government there, but increasingly by the baffled and maddened citizens, which explains why we feel secession may become necessary.
As the philosopher Claud William Dunkenfield [1889-1945] noted, "Sooner or later we must take the bull by the tail and look the facts in the face."
81 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:16:15am |
Anyway, God has personally endorsed the GUNS AND DOPE PARTY and cursed Tsardom. He told me so, speaking through an ostrich named Olga who co-starred with Orson Welles in a thriller called The Southern Star.Olga spoke in Orson's most sonorous and resonant voice, the one he used for Father Mapple in Moby Dick. Orson, in another second-rate villain role, spoke in a lispy, sqeeaky, very Gay, upper-class English voice, which made the character, a bandit chief, a lot more interesting.
At the climax, Olga said, looking right at the camera, "I am the Lord God. Do you believe that?"
I giggled and said, "No...I think I just took too much pain medicine..."
"Good," said Olga/Orson/Father Mapple. "I'm sick and tired of gullible fools like Dubya and Son of Sam. Just keep an open mind, old chum, and watch me rear back and work some Miracles for the Guns and Dope Party! Damn those pesky Tsarists! By the way, don't forget your promise to include 33% ostriches in your government."
Those other guys are just jealous because the Voices don't speak to them and they have to fake it!
83 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:21:06am |
re: #81 Obdicut
Read their stuff, and it looks like a false flag operation. I smell a flowery giraffe in there somewhere.
84 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:25:00am |
re: #82 Expand Your Ground
What is their position on public banjo playing?
Is an ostrich doing it? Because that's probably cool.
85 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:25:55am |
re: #83 Decatur Deb
Still, I'm printing out my Tsar card.
I really like that he's anti-Tsarist and his slogan is "Every man, woman, and ostrich a Tsar".
[Link: www.gunsanddopeparty.com...]
86 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:28:06am |
re: #85 Obdicut
A play on Crowley, I presume.
87 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:30:58am |
re: #86 Standard, Yet Pretty
Oh what the fuck, it's actually the dude who co-authored the Illuminatus Triology.
I was wondering why there was so much Illuminati stuff on that page.
88 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:32:32am |
re: #87 Obdicut
(not using google or anything here) Robert Anton Wilson? I also seem to remember he was a douche to skeptics.
89 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:42:03am |
re: #88 Standard, Yet Pretty
Yes, he got tired of satirizing religious fundamentalists and started satirizing 'materialists'. I think he was either genuinely somewhat crazy or just had done shitloads of acid.
But the Illuminatus! trilogy is still freaking hilarious.
And when you get down into when he appears to be being serious, he's non-controversial.
Scientific generalizations which have lasted a long time have high probability, perhaps the highest probability of any generalizations, but it is only Idolatry which claims none of them will ever again have to be revised or rejected. Too many have been revised or rejected in this century alone.
Just a little shallow, because no scientists participate in that form of idolatry.
A deeply strange human being, but a very lively and provoking one.
90 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:43:37am |
re: #89 Obdicut
I've actually never read it and only memorized his name for some weird reason coz I read some of his unhinged stuff on Randi. Well, in any case he's dead.
91 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:45:51am |
re: #90 Standard, Yet Pretty
I recommend reading it some time that you really want a book entirely unconnected to reality.
And I'd say the worst part is that there are some people who really take him and his obviously-intended-to-be-bullshit stuff seriously. He clearly states that most of his stuff is satire, especially of conspiracy theorists, but a lot of conspiracy theorists love him and think that he was telling the 'real truth' and found a way to 'hide it in plain sight'.
92 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:47:23am |
re: #91 Obdicut
Well, there were people who believed in Taxil's hoax after he exposed it. I knew one, even.
93 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 5:48:46am |
re: #92 Standard, Yet Pretty
Well, there were people who believed in Taxil's hoax after he exposed it. I knew one, even.
Including Jack Chick.
94 | Targetpractice Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:01:46am |
Somebody just sent me a link to this story today, one that backs up the belief that "Stand Your Ground" only applies if one side is dead when the smoke clear:
Marissa Alexander: Shoot to Kill Or You Must Not Be Scared Enough
Marissa Alexander is another victim of Florida’s infamous Stand Your Ground law, proving that Florida statute 776.013 is not for battered women or people who won’t shoot to kill. When attacked by her husband in her home, with an order of protection in place, Marissa Alexander shot into the ceiling, instead of into his body, to scare him away. She is now sitting in a jail cell, awaiting sentencing for assault with a deadly weapon.
Ms. Alexander is black and a mother of three. She had given birth nine days earlier to a premature infant, allegedly as a result of battering during her pregnancy. She is a licensed gun owner, with concealed carry permit. She was in her own home. Her husband had a documented history of domestic violence. She reasonably believed that her life was in danger and her husband was violating an order of protection.
According to Ms. Alexander:He assaulted me, shoving, strangling and holding me against my will, preventing me from fleeing all while I begged for him to leave. After a minute or two of trying to escape, I was able to make it to the garage where my truck was parked, but in my haste to leave I realized my keys were missing. I tried to open the garage but there was a mechanical failure. I was unable to leave, trapped in the dark with no way out. For protection against further assault I retrieved my weapon; which is registered and I have a concealed weapon permit. Trapped, no phone, I entered back into my home to either leave through another exit or obtain my cell phone.
The weapon was in my right hand down by my side and he yelled, “Bitch I will kill you!”, and charged toward me. In fear and desperate attempt, I lifted my weapon up, turned away and discharged a single shot in the wall up in the ceiling. As I stood my ground it prevented him from doing what he threatened and he ran out of the home.
He ran all the way to the police station to file charges against her. Police came and took her into custody – no Zimmerman benefit of the doubt that day. Ms. Alexander has since been convicted of three counts of assault with a deadly weapon, because her husband had brought his two young sons with him when he illegally entered the home.
Ms. Alexander requested immunity from prosecution but her claim of self-defense based on the Stand Your Ground Statute was rejected. She is now sitting in the Pretrial Detention Facility in Jacksonville FL, Duval County awaiting sentencing – up to 20 years in prison. That is more than George Zimmerman could get it if he is convicted of manslaughter.
95 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:04:26am |
re: #94 Targetpractice
Not necessarily - one can earnestly try to kill and still miss.
96 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:06:14am |
re: #94 Targetpractice
But Rogue told me SYG was the best way to keep minorities out of jail!
97 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:07:13am |
98 | Targetpractice Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:08:32am |
re: #95 Standard, Yet Pretty
Not necessarily - one can earnestly try to kill and still miss.
Yep, but SYG still protects you. If you shoot in "self-defense" and a bystander gets hit and injured/killed, you're immune from prosecution for that as well as if you kill the guy you intended to shoot.
99 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:09:41am |
re: #97 Varek Raith
Wait, huh???
The argument goes: minorities have less money, so whenever they self-defend they're arrested and can't allow a good lawyers, so often plea and go to prison. Of course, if SYG would keeps a dozen of them out of jail, that's hardly a good way to keep minorities out of jail in general. But then, I agree the argument is pretty absurd.
100 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:10:12am |
re: #99 Standard, Yet Pretty
The argument goes: minorities have less money, so whenever they self-defend they're arrested and can't allow a good lawyers, so often plea and go to prison. Of course, if SYG would keeps a dozen of them out of jail, that's hardly a good way to keep minorities out of jail in general. But then, I agree the argument is pretty absurd.
Okely dokely.
101 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:13:24am |
Heh. This one is for all you US military vets out there:
102 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:17:23am |
re: #101 Obdicut
Something in this vein we say about our army.
103 | Obdicut Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:18:19am |
re: #102 Standard, Yet Pretty
It's probably a universal joke among the non-doctrinaire nations, or those who's doctrines inherently lead to subversion.
104 | lawhawk Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:25:03am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The Enterprise wont be making its debut over the skies of NYC until Friday morning due to weather conditions, but that's okay. Gives me another chance to get in the right place at the right time to see it first-hand.
Meanwhile, this video encompasses every reason to protect natural wonders around the world and why it's so important to preserve and protect national parks and their environs.
It just makes me want to go back to the parks I've been, and see those I haven't been to as yet. And Yosemite is at the top of the list of those I've not gotten a chance to visit (along with Canyonlands/Arches/Rainbow Bridge and Glacier and Crater Lake and Big Bend).
105 | darthstar Wed, Apr 25, 2012 6:55:56am |
Mornin' everyone...four hours' sleep here. Went to a concert last night and learned how to say "youse".
Best part...I got to see Nils fucking Lofgren and Max Weinberg.
106 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:09:57am |
re: #98 Targetpractice
Yep, but SYG still protects you. If you shoot in "self-defense" and a bystander gets hit and injured/killed, you're immune from prosecution for that as well as if you kill the guy you intended to shoot.
The Stand Your White Ground law is widely misunderstood outside the South.
107 | darthstar Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:11:31am |
re: #106 Decatur Deb
The Stand Your White Ground law is widely misunderstood outside the South.
If Trayvon had the gun and Zimmerman was dead, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
108 | sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:12:51am |
re: #105 darthstar (click me, I dare ya)
I got to see Nils fucking Lofgren
Nils was fucking Lofgern?
Right on stage, or back in the dressing room?
110 | darthstar Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:17:43am |
re: #108 sattv4u2
I got to see Nils fucking Lofgren
Nils was fucking Lofgern?
Right on stage, or back in the dressing room?
He came to dance. It was a rhythm romance he was having with his shoes.
111 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:19:23am |
re: #109 darthstar (click me, I dare ya)
Obama and the Dead...reason #4,352 why I love this president.
Spice-saturated Fremen. The contact high should carry him through November.
112 | darthstar Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:20:25am |
re: #110 darthstar (click me, I dare ya)
He came to dance. It was a rhythm romance he was having with his shoes.
113 | Targetpractice Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:22:47am |
re: #111 Decatur Deb
Spice-saturated Fremen. The contact high should carry him through November.
So now we'll know who to blame if he signs an executive order declaring "munchies" to be tax-exempt forever.
//
114 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:23:47am |
re: #111 Decatur Deb
Spice-saturated Fremen. The contact high should carry him through November.
The spice must flow.
115 | darthstar Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:23:49am |
re: #113 Targetpractice
So now we'll know who to blame if he signs an executive order declaring "munchies" to be tax-exempt forever.
//
Wait until election time when heads show up at campaign events with "Dose Biden" t-shirts.
116 | Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:24:15am |
Transition Towns moves communities beyond sustainability to resiliency
The 320 Transition Town initiatives in 14 countries focus on urban agriculture, crowdfunding, and other social enterprises, using a 12-step model to organize a community toward a sustainable, resilient future.
117 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:24:52am |
re: #116 Killgore Trout
Transition Towns moves communities beyond sustainability to resiliency
COMMUNISM
118 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:26:27am |
re: #115 darthstar (click me, I dare ya)
Wait until election time when heads show up at campaign events with "Dose Biden" t-shirts.
Stop drinking the Electric Kool-aid, sheeple!!!
119 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:27:45am |
120 | Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:29:24am |
121 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:29:34am |
re: #119 Standard, Yet Pretty
I got a warning,
Visiting this site may harm your computer!
Though, it may just be my paranoid settings.
:)
122 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:30:23am |
re: #121 Varek Raith
Hmm, I didn't. But then I'm under Tor right now...
124 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:31:56am |
125 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:32:50am |
re: #121 Varek Raith
I got a warning,
Though, it may just be my paranoid settings.
:)
Nothing from Linux/Firefox.
126 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:32:58am |
re: #122 Standard, Yet Pretty
Hmm, I didn't. But then I'm under Tor right now...
I think it was just my security being paranoid about Soviet Union domains.
XD
127 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:33:28am |
re: #126 Varek Raith
I think it was just my security being paranoid about Soviet Union domains.
XD
Fucking McCarthyist! /
128 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:33:45am |
Yep, it was set up to warn about all .su domains.
Lol.
129 | Decatur Deb Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:33:57am |
re: #126 Varek Raith
I think it was just my security being paranoid about Soviet Union domains.
XD
If you're getting CCCP domains, you should upgrade to Windows 3.1.
130 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:34:19am |
131 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:35:30am |
132 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:36:39am |
re: #131 Varek Raith
Let's see...
Yep.
Not .ru though.
So your filter is not only xenophobic McCarthyist, it's also a senile amnesiac! //
133 | iossarian Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:37:13am |
re: #129 Decatur Deb
If you're getting CCCP domains, you should upgrade to Windows 3.1.
"Do you want to install TCP/IP? Or are you content to let the world of online entertainment continue to pass you by?"
Happy days.
134 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:37:42am |
re: #132 Standard, Yet Pretty
So your filter is not only xenophobic McCarthyist, it's also a senile amnesiac! //
Heh!
I may just chuck the filter and start over.
135 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:38:55am |
re: #134 Varek Raith
Heh!
I may just chuck the filter and start over.
It's not so unwise to be careful about Russian domains (though that certainly includes .ru).
136 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:39:46am |
re: #135 Standard, Yet Pretty
It's not so unwise to be careful about Russian domains (though that certainly includes .ru).
True.
138 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:42:29am |
139 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:43:10am |
140 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:43:40am |
141 | lawhawk Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:44:01am |
re: #139 Varek Raith
That's breaking news? Didn't we know this a few weeks back - when he couldn't even win his adopted state - Virginia (because he couldn't get on the ballot?!) /
142 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:44:53am |
re: #141 lawhawk
That's breaking news? Didn't we know this a few weeks back - when he couldn't even win his adopted state - Virginia (because he couldn't get on the ballot?!) /
News crosses into alternate realities more slowly.
Give Newt a break!
145 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:55:37am |
146 | Varek Raith Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:57:18am |
re: #145 ggt
Morning all!
How are you?
Image: cute-animals-daily-squee-squee-spree-that-chair-is-not-food.jpg
147 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:58:11am |
148 | HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:59:47am |
149 | Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Apr 25, 2012 7:59:49am |
150 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:00:16am |
re: #11 engineer cat
picture of obama, caption: "One Big Ass Mistake, America"
(it's the letters of his name, see?)
i find it offensive. you couldn't call it political commentary, it's just a vulgar insult
i have yet to see any manufacturers in this country "create jobs" with shirts with vulgar slogans insulting republican presidents
This happens with every election regardless of the POTUS.
NEXT . . .
151 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:00:54am |
In Soviet Russia Romney beats Obama.
152 | iossarian Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:01:31am |
re: #151 Standard, Yet Pretty
In Soviet Russia Romney beats Obama.
In Soviet Russia ticket joins Condi.
153 | HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:01:34am |
re: #151 Standard, Yet Pretty
In Soviet Russia Romney beats Obama.
In Soviet Russia, job create Romney.
154 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:03:07am |
re: #17 Expand Your Ground
I have no problem with Jesus' existence. Where Christianity ends with me is the Resurrection. Either he died and stayed dead or he did *not* die on the cross (I wanna see the long-form death certificate), recovered and ws spirited away, so to speak.
I understand that religion goes beyond rational thought and logic , but I cannot accept any religion that requires me to actively suspend or contradict rational thought and logic.
Somewhere, sometime, I heard an explanation for this. He didn't really die. Something about Jewish law (or local law at the time) states the tomb is not sealed for 3 days, the family or someone has to inspect it because often they find the person alive after that amount of time. Medical treatment and such being what it was back then, a person could appear dead but not be dead.
The whole ascension thing is marketing --IMHO.
155 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:06:58am |
re: #154 ggt
Another possible explanation is that he died, but was thought to be resurrected in spirit, and the whole physical resurrection/empty tomb story was just a later evolution.
156 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:09:02am |
re: #155 Standard, Yet Pretty
Another possible explanation is that he died, but was thought to be resurrected in spirit, and the whole physical resurrection/empty tomb story was just a later evolution.
Works too!
I often wonder, you know how some people have stated (usually a Mom or a very closed love one) that they "saw" or "talked to" a loved one in a dream and that person said "goodbye". The next day they find out that person as died in the night?
Stranger things have happened, but it could also be a starting point for a religion if the deceased was Jesus the Jewish Carpenter.
157 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:10:43am |
Arguing on my my fb with a person regarding a post I made about the Frontline episode on the Wall Street Financial Meltdown.
The person is a Liberatarian and is arguing that it was the Liberals who deregulated the banking industry.
158 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:13:36am |
A.Word.A.Day
PRONUNCIATION:
(ay-LAHN*)
*this syllable is nasal in FrenchMEANING:
noun: A combination of energy, enthusiasm, and style.
159 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:13:37am |
re: #156 ggt
Yep. Such story could quickly grow legs, esp. in a religious community some time after the events. Note how the earliest gospel ends in the original (Mark):
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”
4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”
8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.[a]
Told nothing to anyone!
Only after a couple of centuries someone added verses 9-22 with the whole physical appearances thing, which is how we know the stories were made up rather easily and even found their way into the text.
160 | Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:14:06am |
re: #155 Standard, Yet Pretty
Another possible explanation is that he died, but was thought to be resurrected in spirit, and the whole physical resurrection/empty tomb story was just a later evolution.
Christianity is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Jewish doctrine.
Christianity teaches: Everyone is going to burn in hell forever, unless they join our little club.
Judaism teaches: Nobody is bad enough to burn in hell forever, hell may not even exist, who knows.
161 | HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:14:47am |
re: #157 ggt
Arguing on my my fb with a person regarding a post I made about the Frontline episode on the Wall Street Financial Meltdown.
The person is a Liberatarian and is arguing that it was the Liberals who deregulated the banking industry.
Clinton did repeal Glass Steagall but it wasn't as if he didn't have support from the right.
162 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:17:30am |
re: #161 HappyWarrior
Clinton did repeal Glass Steagall but it wasn't as if he didn't have support from the right.
De-regulation started (IIRC) with Reagan and didn't stop until Dodd-Frank. It was a systemic problem.
163 | wrenchwench Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:18:08am |
164 | HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:18:16am |
re: #162 ggt
De-regulation started (IIRC) with Reagan and didn't stop until Dodd-Frank. It was a systemic problem.
Sounds right to me. I suck at understanding financial issues.
165 | Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:18:28am |
re: #156 ggt
Works too!
I often wonder, you know how some people have stated (usually a Mom or a very closed love one) that they "saw" or "talked to" a loved one in a dream and that person said "goodbye". The next day they find out that person as died in the night?
Stranger things have happened, but it could also be a starting point for a religion if the deceased was Jesus the Jewish Carpenter.
If you trace the folklore the story of JC was was cobbled together from various other religions in the region. The version of the bible we have today was selected to create the desired narrative but there are a lot of gospels that were left out. The story of JC's death in Islam is from one of the gnostic gospels where JC doesn't die on the cross but decides to run for it instead.
166 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:18:48am |
re: #160 Learned Mother of Zion
Christianity is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Jewish doctrine.
Christianity teaches: Everyone is going to burn in hell forever, unless they join our little club.
Judaism teaches: Nobody is bad enough to burn in hell forever, hell may not even exist, who knows.
I think I was a Jew is a former life.
Most of my Jewish friends concur.
And none of us believe in former lives . . .
:0
167 | Sheila Broflovski Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:20:01am |
re: #166 ggt
I think I was a Jew is a former life.
Most of my Jewish friends concur.
And none of us believe in former lives . . .
:0
Everyone has had a former life or several, because G-D recycles.
168 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:20:22am |
re: #165 Killgore Trout
If you trace the folklore the story of JC was was cobbled together from various other religions in the region. The version of the bible we have today was selected to create the desired narrative but there are a lot of gospels that were left out. The story of JC's death in Islam is from one of the gnostic gospels where JC doesn't die on the cross but decides to run for it instead.
It's one big marketing plan. In the ancient world, it united people and perhaps did some good.
It's one of the steps that has made the West what it is.
It's the only way I can look at it.
169 | wrenchwench Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:20:24am |
re: #160 Learned Mother of Zion
who knows
I admire any person, philosophy, or religion that does not claim to have all the answers. I also like songs that ask questions.
170 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:21:32am |
re: #167 Learned Mother of Zion
Everyone has had a former life or several, because G-D recycles.
Well, I can accept that the atoms (and ether) I am now using will be used again. I, personally, don't want another life.
171 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:22:13am |
re: #165 Killgore Trout
If you trace the folklore the story of JC was was cobbled together from various other religions in the region.
That's a frequent mythicist assertion, but little evidence seems to exist for it. and what exists shows a possibility of borrowing, not the fact.
The version of the bible we have today was selected to create the desired narrative but there are a lot of gospels that were left out. The story of JC's death in Islam is from one of the gnostic gospels where JC doesn't die on the cross but decides to run for it instead.
In Islamic version Jesus is not crucified but his executioners think that he is. Rather he is taken up to heaven. Not sure this is from gnostic gospels and he doesn't "run" in any case.
172 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:24:22am |
re: #171 Standard, Yet Pretty
That's a frequent mythicist assertion, but little evidence seems to exist for it. and what exists shows a possibility of borrowing, not the fact.
In Islamic version Jesus is not crucified but his executioners think that he is. Rather he is taken up to heaven. Not sure this is from gnostic gospels and he doesn't "run" in any case.
Wait, I thought he and Mary Magdalene ended-up in a little village in France --got married and had a family --no?
173 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:25:46am |
His only Begotten Daughter is a totally kewl take on things.
And, IMHO, more believable than what we've been taught.
174 | William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:26:50am |
re: #160 Learned Mother of Zion
There are a lot of us that do make that mistake. But not all.
175 | Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:28:18am |
re: #173 ggt
His only Begotten Daughter is a totally kewl take on things.
And, IMHO, more believable than what we've been taught.
"The Universe was a PhD thesis that God was unable to successfully defend."
teehee
176 | Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:28:30am |
re: #171 Standard, Yet Pretty
That's a frequent mythicist assertion, but little evidence seems to exist for it. and what exists shows a possibility of borrowing, not the fact.
It was mostly borrowed from Mythraism which was popular in Rome at the time. The Vatican was even built on the ruins of a mythratic temple. As I recall there's a mythratic inscription from the temple saying "drink my blood and eat my flesh" (a reference to mythratic sacrifice/ritual meal) which still exists on Vatican grounds.
178 | Lidane Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:32:53am |
re: #139 Varek Raith
Lots of unhappy dead-enders over at Freeper-ville today:
Looks like I won’t be voting on the presidential part of the ballot. Hope we get a majority in the senate and obama has fun with full out obstructionism from the R’s.
It might be better than them working WITH Romney. Too many rino’s will let him do anything liberal, but they’d fight Obama simply because he’s obama. It may be the best course.
I said, MAY...
---At least he held out until Santorum quit running. That was the important thing...
What a jackass!
---The most depressing headline I’ve seen in a long time. :(
---FOX News began this story.
In hours, FReepers will learn if this is yet
another dirty trick of Bishop Romney and his Legion.
---California and texas have been effectively disenfranchised....another choice has been removed from them.
Thiss is the what happened to me in 2008. Thompson dropped out before i could vote for him. All that were left were RINO.
---Looks like third party for me. I refuse to vote for either Marxist.
---If you're not going to vote anyway at least punch the ticket for the Green Party. If they get enough votes it might cause a split in the dems. Note how angry they got at Nader after Florida 2000.
---Too bad. Guess I won’t cast a vote for a Presidential candidate.
There are also several inexplicable calls for Newt to be Mitt's press secretary. WTF.
179 | HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:35:05am |
re: #178 Lidane
Lots of unhappy dead-enders over at Freeper-ville today:
There are also several inexplicable calls for Newt to be Mitt's press secretary. WTF.
Press Secretary? LMAO. At least they're not delusional enough to think he's on the Veep list.
180 | AK-47% Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:39:16am |
re: #153 HappyWarrior
In Soviet Russia, job create Romney.
In Soviet Russia, all trees are right size...
181 | Lidane Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:39:45am |
re: #179 HappyWarrior
Press Secretary? LMAO. At least they're not delusional enough to think he's on the Veep list.
Hah, true. A few of them are still holding out the delusional hope for a brokered convention where some white knight like Caribou Barbie swoops in and saves the GOP from the evils of Mitt Romney. It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic.
182 | Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Apr 25, 2012 8:40:55am |
re: #176 Killgore Trout
It was mostly borrowed from Mythraism which was popular in Rome at the time. The Vatican was even built on the ruins of a mythratic temple. As I recall there's a mythratic inscription from the temple saying "drink my blood and eat my flesh" (a reference to mythratic sacrifice/ritual meal) which still exists on Vatican grounds.
No, not really. As I said, it's just a mythicist assertion without basis. Written Mithraic sources post-date Christianity, so if there was any influence, it just as easily could have been the other way. But the claims about similarities are mostly exaggerated. No virgin birth, no resurrection, really, not much, if anything.