Right Wing’s Benghazi Attack Falls Apart

Another fake outrage bites the dust
Politics • Views: 36,824

Tonight, the bogus right wing talking points about the Benghazi attack are totally falling apart, as the latest reports from the investigation become public: David Ignatius: Benghazi Intelligence Revealed.

“Talking points” prepared by the CIA on Sept. 15, the same day that Rice taped three television appearances, support her description of the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate as a reaction to Arab anger about an anti-Muslim video prepared in the United States. According to the CIA account, “The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.”

The CIA document went on: “This assessment may change as additional information is collected and analyzed and as currently available information continues to be evaluated.” This may sound like self-protective boilerplate, but it reflects the analysts’ genuine problem interpreting fragments of intercepted conversation, video surveillance and source reports.

The senior intelligence official said the analysts’ judgment was based in part on monitoring of some of the Benghazi attackers, which showed they had been watching the Cairo protests live on television and talking about them before they assaulted the consulate.

“We believe the timing of the attack was influenced by events in Cairo,” the senior official said, reaffirming the Cairo-Benghazi link. He said that judgment is repeated in a new report prepared this week for the House intelligence committee.

UPDATE at 10/19/12 8:11:09 pm

And in related news:

Issa’s Benghazi Document Dump Exposes Several Libyans Working With the U.S.

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) compromised the identities of several Libyans working with the U.S. government and placed their lives in danger when he released reams of State Department communications Friday, according to Obama administration officials.

Issa posted 166 pages of sensitive but unclassified State Department communications related to Libya on the committee’s website afternoon as part of his effort to investigate security failures and expose contradictions in the administration’s statements regarding the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi that resulted in the death of Amb. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans.

“The American people deserve nothing less than a full explanation from this administration about these events, including why the repeated warnings about a worsening security situation appear to have been ignored by this administration. Americans also deserve a complete explanation about your administration’s decision to accelerate a normalized presence in Libya at what now appears to be at the cost of endangering American lives,” Issa and Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) wrote today in a letter to President Barack Obama.

But Issa didn’t bother to retract the names of Libyan civilians and local leaders mentioned in the cables, and just as with the WikiLeaks dump of State Department cables last year, the administration says that Issa has done damage to U.S. efforts to work with those Libyans and exposed them to physical danger from the very groups that had an interest in attacking the U.S. consulate.

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341 comments

1 Big Joe  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:57:13pm

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

2 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:00:32pm
The official said the only major change he would make now in the CIA’s Sept. 15 talking points would be to drop the word “spontaneous” and substitute “opportunistic.” He explained that there apparently was “some pre-coordination but minimal planning.”

Well, there it is.

3 Hal_10000  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:00:51pm

Another moment when this conservative can only shake his head at the state of the GOP. There are legitimate questions about our security at the embassy and the decisions that led up to this. But instead they focused on the BS talking points of who said what and when and got crossed up on bits of verbiage.

It really is no surprise. This is what happens when your foreign policy is not so much a policy as an attitude (said attitude being "whatever Obama is doing is wrong; even if it's what we said he should do last week"). This is what happens when your entire foreign policy, such at is, consists of "acting tough" and "sending a message" and "not wavering". Words and attitude become more important than deeds and philosophy.

What a joke.

4 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:02:18pm

Since when have silly things like facts gotten in the way of a wingnut's story?

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:02:34pm

Saw this coming.

6 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:03:08pm

Time for Washington Week and a little bonding with Gwen Ifill. You know 'girl time'. BBL

7 jaunte  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:04:11pm
drop the word “spontaneous” and substitute “opportunistic.”

This is a reliable description of the right wing reaction to any news item between now and the election.

8 Sophist, Gingham Style  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:04:15pm

Don't worry, there's still a couple days before the foreign policy debate. That's plenty of time for Mitt's campaign to come up with a new position he's always held.

9 blueraven  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:04:44pm

Tonight FNC is running a special called "Death and Deceit in Benghazi"
Hosted by Brett Baier with Mark Steyn.

A stunningly biased propaganda piece for the Republican party.

10 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:06:45pm

Just a little confused.....

Does this information have anything to do with the documents Issa leaked earlier?

Because it would be an extra nice little bit of "Fuck You" to Romney if the evidence debunking the wingnuts' talking points came out of their own rush to expose everything they had on Benghazi.

11 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:06:52pm
12 austin_blue  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:12:24pm

But that's unpossible! Obama failed to protect them from terrorists!

Look, the Administration does deserve *some* blame for Benghazi, but at the same time, the State Department's security budget had been slashed by you-know-who. In addition, it has always been the host country's responsibility to provide security for foreign embassies and consulates.

Libya is a pretty good definition of tribal and sectarian dangerville right now. I think it's damn lucky only four of our people were killed. Should this be a campaign issue? Only if all sides agree that it was a situational fuck-up exacerbated by both sides of the aisle.

So, no. It shouldn't.

13 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:13:19pm

re: #11 Gus

[Embedded content]

That is what a traitor looks like.

14 Mocking Jay  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:20:56pm

re: #11 Gus

[Embedded content]

This man is dangerous.

15 darthstar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:21:33pm

National Security is a campaign slogan, not something Republicans actually believe in themselves.

16 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:23:19pm

Again, here's a map of contemporary protests occurring at the same time. That's almost 40 locations around the globe. Some 19 people died at the protests in Pakistan alone. That film pissed off people in the Maldives. Which had to take at least a modicum of effort because people first had to wake up, realize they were in the fucking Maldives and make the conscious choice to spend the day being all pissed off, yelling and shit.

17 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:23:19pm

re: #14 Mocking Jay

This man is dangerous.

Michael Mann would agree with you.

18 Mocking Jay  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:23:47pm

re: #13 Kragar

That is what a traitor looks like.

Making Obama look bad > ANYTHING else.

19 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:23:57pm

And, now I must turn in. The Lebanon issue gave me a literal headache, so I will turn in for the night.

20 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:26:56pm

re: #18 Mocking Jay

Making Obama look bad > ANYTHING else.

When you sell out your country and its allies to make some partisan political gains, you may be traitorous vermin.

21 philosophus invidius  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:28:58pm

re: #11 Gus

Couldn't it be argued that calling attention to the fact that info about these people is in the documents is in its own way a version of what Issa himself did?

22 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:30:11pm

re: #21 philosophus invidius

Couldn't it be argued that calling attention to the fact that info about these people is in the documents is in its own way a version of what Issa himself did?

So a witness to a crime is guilty of accessory to the crime?

23 danarchy  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:30:41pm

If these documents were so sensitive, shouldn't they have been classified? Otherwise, couldn't anybody have gotten them through a FOIA request?

24 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:30:55pm

re: #21 philosophus invidius

Couldn't it be argued that calling attention to the fact that info about these people is in the documents is in its own way a version of what Issa himself did?

Security through obscurity, really?

25 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:32:09pm

re: #23 danarchy

If these documents were so sensitive, shouldn't they have been classified? Otherwise, couldn't anybody have gotten them through a FOIA request?

FOIA requests take months.

26 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:34:02pm

Sensitive but unclassified

Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU) is a designation of information in the United States federal government that, though unclassified, often requires strict controls over its distribution. SBU is a broad category of information that includes material covered by such designations as For Official Use Only (FOUO), Law Enforcement Sensitive (LES), Sensitive Homeland Security Information, Security Sensitive Information (SSI), Critical Infrastructure Information (CII), etc. It also includes Internal Revenue Service materials like individual tax records, systems information, and enforcement procedures. Some categories of SBU information have authority in statute or regulation (e.g. SSI, CII) while others, including FOUO, do not.

27 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:34:09pm

re: #21 philosophus invidius

Couldn't it be argued that calling attention to the fact that info about these people is in the documents is in its own way a version of what Issa himself did?

So the people that reported that Wikileaks exposed sensitive info, are also to blame for exposing sensitive info? Um.....no.

It would be one thing if Issa posted them on some obscure site and told no one.....and then a reporter found it and broadcasted it out to the world. But when he releases it as a big event and invites everyone to read the documents? No.

28 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:34:42pm

re: #25 Gangnam Style

FOIA requests take months.

They're also subject to redactions in the interest of national security. Information in non-classified documents, especially identifying information, is usually blacked out.

29 philosophus invidius  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:41:23pm

re: #27 JamesWI

So the people that reported that Wikileaks exposed sensitive info, are also to blame for exposing sensitive info? Um.....no.

It would be one thing if Issa posted them on some obscure site and told no one.....and then a reporter found it and broadcasted it out to the world. But when he releases it as a big event and invites everyone to read the documents? No.

Maybe you're right. It depends on how likely it is this information would have reached the bad guys in Libya without people explicitly talking about it.

I'm assuming that they don't watch C-SPAN and look at the House Oversight Committee website looking for any information about Libya. We're not talking about the KGB here.

30 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:44:29pm

re: #26 Kragar

Sensitive but unclassified

Any consequences for releasing such information?

31 Mattand  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:44:33pm

Off-topic: I was just over at Snopes.com. They're rating the "Obama wears a Muslim ring" as "probably false."

"Probably" false.

Politifact much?

Maybe I'm overreacting, but "probably" implies there's a tiny, remote chance it's true. How about "false"? Or "load of fucking bullshit"?

Swear to God, this only encourages the nitwits who think he's a sooper secrit Mulsim Manchurian Candidate.

32 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:45:34pm

re: #26 Kragar

Sensitive but unclassified

and with long hair and big eyes

33 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:46:13pm

Ugh. This latop sucks. BRB

34 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:47:19pm

re: #30 Varek Raith

Any consequences for releasing such information?

Probably violation of non-disclosure agreements, charges could vary. I'd love to see Holder drag Issa in.

35 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:48:44pm

Sigh. The GOP wouldn't care if the country burned so long as they got to rule the ashes afterwards.

36 KiTA  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:49:28pm

Now the real question: Will they treat Issa, who has seemingly intentionally harmed American security interests for political gain, the same way they treated Assange? Same crime, right?

37 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:50:48pm

re: #31 Mattand

I have found that Snopes bends over backwards to leave open the possibility that something could be true if it can't be actually disproved. IIRC they did pretty well dispose of the idea that there is Arabic script on the ring in the text.
But, yeah, they should have declared it false and moved on.

38 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:51:36pm

re: #29 philosophus invidius

Maybe you're right. It depends on how likely it is this information would have reached the bad guys in Libya without people explicitly talking about it.

I'm assuming that they don't watch C-SPAN and look at the House Oversight Committee website looking for any information about Libya. We're not talking about the KGB here.

You don't think the bad guys in Libya would know that a prominent politician in the United States is about to release loads of documents about U.S operations in Benghazi? Really?

39 philosophus invidius  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:57:57pm

re: #38 JamesWI

Well, I'm not certain that they would.

40 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:59:01pm

re: #34 Kragar

Probably violation of non-disclosure agreements, charges could vary. I'd love to see Holder drag Issa in.

That isn't possible. Issa was acting in his official capacity as Chairman of the House Government Reform Committee. He cannot be charged for disclosures done in his official role, at least as I understand law and the Constitution. The Founders wanted to protect Congress from a President bent on using his powers to curtail those of the other branches.

41 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:59:22pm

re: #39 philosophus invidius

Well, I'm not certain that they would.

Because underestimating your enemy is how you win battles.

42 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:59:27pm

re: #34 Kragar

Probably violation of non-disclosure agreements.

Issa is protected by Congressional Immunity.

The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

43 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 8:59:31pm

re: #39 philosophus invidius

Well, I'm not certain that they would.

Well, you're almost certainly wrong. If something is big news in the United States, and it concerns our enemies, our enemies will know about it.

44 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:00:21pm

re: #37 calochortus

I have found that Snopes bends over backwards to leave open the possibility that something could be true if it can't be actually disproved. IIRC they did pretty well dispose of the idea that there is Arabic script on the ring in the text.
But, yeah, they should have declared it false and moved on.

LOL Yeah. There is no text there. It's just bendy shapes. A vertical array connecting horizontal array and repeating around the ring.

45 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:02:14pm

re: #44 Gus

Yes, but Obama could be hiding a Muslim ring somewhere else, or that ring could have an inscription on the inside, or something...

46 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:02:21pm

re: #44 Gus

LOL Yeah. There is no text there. It's just bendy shapes. A vertical array connecting horizontal array and repeating around the ring.

Image: SINE-WAVE.gif

47 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:02:58pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Issa is protected by Congressional Immunity.

There ought to be some way to strip him of his position on the Oversight Committee.

48 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:03:04pm

re: #45 calochortus

Yes, but Obama could be hiding a Muslim ring somewhere else, or that ring could have an inscription on the inside, or something...

Definitely. He could be hiding one in his second wife's home. /

49 makeitstop  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:03:12pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Issa is protected by Congressional Immunity.

That fucker should be in prison, not chairing the goddamned House Oversight Committee.

50 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:03:40pm

re: #48 Gus

Definitely. He could be hiding one in his second wife's home. /

That's it!!!!! Why didn't I think of that????

51 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:04:10pm

re: #47 Kragar

There ought to be some way to strip him of his position on the Oversight Committee.

There is, but it relies on his fellow House Republicans choosing to act in the best interest of the country.

Ain't ever gonna happen.

52 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:04:12pm

re: #50 calochortus

That's it!!!!! Why didn't I think of that????

I have a team of 100 people working for me. /

53 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:04:18pm

re: #45 calochortus

Yes, but Obama could be hiding a Muslim ring somewhere else, or that ring could have an inscription on the inside, or something...


Corsi: Obama Practicing 'Taqiyya' and Sending 'Secret Communications' to Muslims

“In Islam, taqiyya which is a practice, is OK for believers in Islam to mislead infidels,” Corsi asserted, “in Islam the high point of taqiyya would be to communicate to believers that that’s what you’re doing and that’s what I think this ring could easily do.”

SEKRET MUSLIM ID RING ACTIVATE!

54 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:05:05pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

There is, but it relies on his fellow House Republicans choosing to act in the best interest of the country.

Ain't ever gonna happen.

Which is why I support the Emperor's most holy Inquisition.
/

55 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:05:06pm

re: #52 Gus

I have a team of 100 people working for me. /

That makes me feel better...

56 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:05:17pm

ICYMI

57 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:05:32pm

re: #55 calochortus

That makes me feel better...

Yeah. It's a small hospital.

//

58 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:06:05pm

re: #53 Kragar

That ring could communicate all sorts of things to Muslims with bad eyesight?

59 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:07:03pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Issa is protected by Congressional Immunity.

For once it seems I got the facts right in the eyes of the Archivist.

60 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:07:20pm

re: #58 calochortus

That ring could communicate all sorts of things to Muslims with bad eyesight?

that’s what I think this ring could easily do.

Corsi could use it as a cock ring, except it would probably be much too big...

61 dragonath  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:07:28pm

Argh, my fixed iMac won't output analog through the audio-out headphone port. Wonder if this is a Lion bug or what? Grooooan.

re: #46 Gus

The word "sine" comes from a Latin mistranslation of the Arabic jiba, which is a transliteration of the Sanskrit word for half the chord, jya-ardha.[2]

SHARIA!! CONSPIRACY!!1

62 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:10:45pm

re: #53 Kragar


Corsi: Obama Practicing 'Taqiyya' and Sending 'Secret Communications' to Muslims

SEKRET MUSLIM ID RING ACTIVATE!

No, those symbols are just epoxyed onto it. In reality, Obama is bearing the One Ring back to its master, the Dark Lord Soros. The Muslim stuff is intended to cover up the Ring Inscription, fittingly written in Mordor's Black Speech.

/LotR riff mixed in with some faux Bad Craziness.

63 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:11:09pm

re: #45 calochortus

Yes, but Obama could be hiding a Muslim ring somewhere else, or that ring could have an inscription on the inside, or something...

Super Sekret Mooslim Code Ring Hidden in Box of Falafel. Given to Obama when he was born in Kenya. Directions come via short wave transmissions on GE Transistor radio buried deep in the bowels of the White House. Decoder was memorized in early teens. Listen......Late at night.......Bzzzzzz....Dip..dip dip dip...Bzzzzz. "Ha ha ha"......Bzzzzz,,,,

64 sauceruney  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:11:58pm

So why does Issa get to go free while Bradley Manning sits indefinitely detained?

65 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:12:31pm

re: #64 sauceruney

So why does Issa get to go free while Bradley Manning sits indefinitely detained?

Its good to be on top.

66 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:13:08pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Issa is protected by Congressional Immunity.

Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. Put this out.

67 Big Joe  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:14:33pm

Can he be Censured for being a fucking idiot?

68 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:14:45pm

re: #60 Kragar

.

Corsi could use it as a cock ring, except it would probably be much too big...

Now, now, we don't know that... Or care.

69 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:15:18pm

re: #67 Big Joe

Can he be Censured for being a fucking idiot?

Not in the Republican controlled House.

70 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:16:06pm

So if a Congressman decided to start spilling the goods on nukes or special operations on the house floor, he would be immune to prosecution?

I don't think so. There has got to be some legal repercussions.

71 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:16:23pm

re: #67 Big Joe

Can he be Censured for being a fucking idiot?

Yes, Congress can censure him. It is the Executive Branch that is barred from acting against him.

72 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:18:32pm

re: #61 dragonath

Argh, my fixed iMac won't output analog through the audio-out headphone port. Wonder if this is a Lion bug or what? Grooooan.

SHARIA!! CONSPIRACY!!1

Alfalfa: from the Arabic for "fresh fodder". And yet much of our ungulate livestock eats alfalfa. Coincidence or evil Mooslim plot?

73 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:18:56pm

Issa is protected by Congressional Immunity.

in the old days we used to limit the damage with copious applications of congressional bourbon and branch water

74 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:19:37pm

re: #67 Big Joe

Can he be Censured for being a fucking idiot?

I wish.

75 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:20:38pm

Issa did what wikileaks does.

76 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:21:02pm

re: #70 Kragar

So if a Congressman decided to start spilling the goods on nukes or special operations on the house floor, he would be immune to prosecution?

I don't think so. There has got to be some legal repercussions.

No, there aren't. Congress can throw the bum out, but the AG still can't touch him, unless he did in allegiance with a foreign power, which would make it treason. Congressional Immunity is concept originating in the British Parliamentary system that the Founders decided to incorporate as a check on the Executive.

77 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:21:07pm

re: #75 Varek Raith

Issa did what wikileaks does.

Pretty much. Can I quote you?

78 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:21:37pm

re: #77 Gus

Pretty much. Can I quote you?

Go for it.

79 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:22:31pm

re: #78 Varek Raith

Go for it.

I'm gonna Tweetify it a touch.

80 Olsonist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:25:17pm

I don't think the Speech and Debate clause is a blanket Congressional immunity from prosecution. A document dump of sensitive materials is not the same as calling the President a rat fink in the House Chamber.

Well, unless this is seen as preparation of committee reports.

[Link: legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...]

81 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:25:19pm

re: #78 Varek Raith

Go for it.

83 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:25:39pm

Copy.

84 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:26:17pm
85 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:26:22pm

ICYMI

86 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:27:26pm

PS: Multiply layer. Then distorted. Quicky.

87 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:27:31pm

Oh well, time to wind down for bedtime. Good night all. Keep on fighting the good fight.

88 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:28:52pm

re: #87 calochortus

Oh well, time to wind down for bedtime. Good night all. Keep on fighting the good fight.

If by 'good fight' you mean ganking Brotherhood of Steel patrols, then yes, I will keep on fighting the good fight.
;)

89 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:29:04pm

re: #82 Mocking Jay

Morans.

HEARST SITE TRIES TO BAN USE OF THE WORD “FRAKKING,” ACCIDENTALLY BANS MENTION OF CONTROVERSIAL MINING TECHNIQUE INSTEAD

Reminds me of the time OneNewsNow decided to replace all occurrences of "gay" with "homosexual" and ended up reporting on the athletic exploits of Tyson Homosexual.

90 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:29:52pm

re: #89 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Reminds me of the time OneNewsNow decided to replace all occurrences of "gay" with "homosexual" and ended up reporting on the athletic exploits of Tyson Homosexual.

Image: 0707-reuters-gay-2-credit.jpg

91 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:29:55pm

re: #88 Varek Raith

It can mean whatever you'd like it to. How's that for generous?

92 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:30:33pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Image: 0707-reuters-gay-2-credit.jpg

LOL. Hadn't seen that one.

93 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:32:16pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Image: 0707-reuters-gay-2-credit.jpg

Yeah. That can happen. Damn fonts.

94 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:33:32pm
95 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:33:50pm

Whenever my wingnut pals start talking about this story I just point out how the same line of thinking can blame 9/11 on Bush-Cheney.

96 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:34:39pm

My Opus.

97 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:36:55pm

re: #94 Gus

[Embedded content]

What a sad sack of shit.

98 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:37:44pm

re: #94 Gus
As we get closer to the election and it becomes more obvious that Mitt is going to lose badly I look for more distemper tantrums like that from the online wingnut community.

99 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:37:54pm

re: #97 Kragar

What a sad sack of shit.

Completely.

100 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:39:00pm

re: #94 Gus

[Embedded content]

He should cease disgracing that insignia by using it as an avatar.

101 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:40:09pm

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

He should cease disgracing that insignia by using it as an avatar.

Tell him.

102 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:42:41pm

re: #94 Gus

103 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:43:01pm

re: #101 Gus

Tell him.

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

Just did.

104 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:44:37pm

re: #75 Varek Raith

Issa did what wikileaks does.

Worse really. Wikileaks doesn't work for the People of the United States and Issa never blew the lid off of a taxpayer funded Bacha Bazi party. Issa compromised national security and the personal safety of people helping the United States for nothing more idealistic than partisan political gain.

105 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:45:52pm

re: #98 Mich-again

As we get closer to the election and it becomes more obvious that Mitt is going to lose badly I look for more distemper tantrums like that from the online wingnut community.

For months now people have been calling this race as a narrow victory.
It's too close to call I think.

106 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:46:47pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

[Embedded content]

And mine.

107 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:47:02pm

There now. Let's retire to the garden.

108 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:47:42pm

re: #107 Gus

There now. Let's retire to the garden.

After you, Candide.

/just kidding

109 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:50:08pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

After you, Candide.

/just kidding

I told you it's Sir Righteous of Melody when I'm wearing the mask.

//

110 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:50:59pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

re: #109 Gus

Get a room.
:P

111 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:51:39pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

re: #109 Gus

Get a room.
:P

[Disco music]

112 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:53:37pm
113 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:53:47pm
114 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:55:26pm

re: #111 Gus

[Disco music]

115 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:55:32pm

re: #105 Digital Display

For months now people have been calling this race as a narrow victory.
It's too close to call I think.

Mitt would win the election in a landslide if they went by the square miles of area in the districts that he will win. But in the pesky electoral vote count, he doesn't have much of a chance.

116 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:55:45pm

Anthony Weiner tweets his junk and he's gone. Darrell Issa going dicki-leaks w/ sensitive info? He needs to go

if lies were penises wingnuts would ride

117 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:59:09pm
118 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:59:41pm

So they released the topics for the debate next week

Pretty much all on the Middle East, with a question about China thrown in there for shits and giggles.

Because those are the only global issues, right?/

119 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:59:56pm
120 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:00:37pm

re: #119 Kragar

ROMULAN!

Those should be Josh. Oh well.

121 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:00:51pm

re: #118 JamesWI

So they released the topics for the debate next week

Pretty much all on the Middle East, with a question about China thrown in there for shits and giggles.

Because those are the only global issues, right?/

I'll help.
*Diverts asteroid to Earth*

122 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:01:32pm

re: #118 JamesWI

So they released the topics for the debate next week

Pretty much all on the Middle East, with a question about China thrown in there for shits and giggles.

Because those are the only global issues, right?/

if you listen to the bbc it turns out that there are people living in sub saharan africa

who knew?

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:02:29pm

re: #89 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Reminds me of the time OneNewsNow decided to replace all occurrences of "gay" with "homosexual" and ended up reporting on the athletic exploits of Tyson Homosexual.

Apparently there's something called a horseradish tree which is called a 'ben' in Spanish.

I discovered this while researching Catalan Jewish communities of the Middle Ages. The translator program kept telling me about Nachman Horseradish Tree Moshe, and Yitzchak Horseradish Tree Aharon, and I thought I was losing my mind.

124 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:03:56pm

re: #121 Varek Raith

I'll help.
*Diverts asteroid to Earth*

thanks, i needed that

helps me clear my sinuses

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:04:28pm

re: #122 engineer cat

if you listen to the bbc it turns out that there are people living in sub saharan africa

who knew?

Don't they get eaten by the dragons? And the sandworms? And the rocs?

126 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:05:58pm

Watching the Destro Wars™ in Spy.

127 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:06:41pm

By Hasbro™

128 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:06:55pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't they get eaten by the dragons? And the sandworms? And the rocs?

funny, come to think of it the bbc never mentions the kingdom of prester john...

129 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:07:48pm
130 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:08:44pm
131 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:09:36pm
132 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:11:22pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm going to Port Elizabeth SA for work in a couple weeks.. They gave me 8 shots but no one told me about the freakin sandworms.

133 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:12:16pm
134 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:12:26pm

I'm out.
Later.

135 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:12:42pm

re: #134 Varek Raith

I'm out.
Later.

Image: Romney-Stumped.jpg

136 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:13:08pm

re: #126 Gus

Watching the Destro Wars™ in Spy.

I found that exchange too. Right now we just passed the part where Destro fires a wrist rocket into his own foot.

137 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:14:23pm

re: #135 Gus

Hey its the dick from teevee!

138 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:16:52pm

Reading a post by Destro defending Saddam Hussein is like reading a post by Rodan defending Serbian death squad leader 'Arkan'.

139 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:19:05pm

re: #137 Mich-again

Hey its the dick from teevee!

The Supernatural Season 7 Dick joke compilation

140 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:22:06pm
141 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:23:20pm

re: #132 Mich-again

I'm going to Port Elizabeth SA for work in a couple weeks.. They gave me 8 shots but no one told me about the freakin sandworms.

Just remember to walk without rhythm...

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:23:36pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

I found that exchange too. Right now we just passed the part where Destro fires a wrist rocket into his own foot.

What now?

144 Belafon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:23:43pm

re: #21 philosophus invidius

Couldn't it be argued that pointing out that your neighbor committed murder also means you committed murder?

No.

145 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:24:36pm

re: #140 Gus

Suicidal Tendencies - Gotta Kill Captin Stupid (Studio)

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:24:44pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Reading a post by Destro defending Saddam Hussein is like reading a post by Rodan defending Serbian death squad leader 'Arkan'.

There's something nice to say about everyone. For example, Saddam....uh...he wrote romance novels! BAD romance novels by all accounts, but still, he was being creative!

147 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:26:14pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

Just remember to walk without rhythm...

then you won't attract the worm

148 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:27:54pm

I'm really a nice person.

149 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:34:14pm

re: #143 SanFranciscoZionist

What now?


This now:

So spare me. And yes, I rather live in Saddam's Ba'athist Iraq where I could buy a good bottle of Scotch than fucking American ally Saudi-Wahabist-Arabia where such a purchase may get me be-headed.

It's OK to damn the Saudis, but that's all Destro does on that matter. He has never once denounced Saddam Hussein and his murderous regime.

150 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:35:53pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon


This now:

It's OK to damn the Saudis, but that's all Destro does on that matter. He has never once denounced Saddam Hussein and his murderous regime.

That's not the same thing as defending Saddam, which was your accusation.

151 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:36:57pm

That October Surprise countdown timer site is tied to two guys who Rick-rolled thousands previously with a countdown timer site that promised the release of a new Radiohead album.

“THE MOST GIGANTIC LYING HOAX OF ALL TIME,” the site said. “How to RICKROLL 21,232 people at once. REAL LP7 coming soon!”

Lol, looks like they are trying to break their old record for simultaneous Rick-rolling.

[Link: politicker.com...]

152 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:38:20pm

re: #139 Kragar

The Rise of Dick!

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:38:49pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon


This now:

It's OK to damn the Saudis, but that's all Destro does on that matter. He has never once denounced Saddam Hussein and his murderous regime.

Too many targets, too little time. He's flailing again. Opposition undoes him.

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:41:26pm

re: #150 goddamnedfrank

That's not the same thing as defending Saddam, which was your accusation.

He's whitewashing the regime.

155 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:43:15pm

re: #152 Mich-again

The Rise of Dick!

I only started watching Supernatural when it came on netflix but it became one of my favorite shows.

156 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:44:23pm

re: #150 goddamnedfrank

That's not the same thing as defending Saddam, which was your accusation.

He's done it, Frank. I would show you, but due to system maintenance I am unable to look up his past pages and show you my proof. I'm not refusing, mind you, but I physically cannot show my proofs at this time. As soon Charles completes his database work I will be happy to show you the proof by his misdeeds.

Now I've got to sign off. I'm too ill and too narcoleptic to continue.

157 austin_blue  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 10:46:12pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

There's something nice to say about everyone. For example, Saddam....uh...he wrote romance novels! BAD romance novels by all accounts, but still, he was being creative!

Which reminds me that a new version of Wuthering Heights has been released. Time for a Kate Bush aria:

158 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 11:56:47pm
159 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:24:03am

re: #158 Kragar

Took 2 weeks, but I now have a fully completed Helldrake and Warpsmith

Image: m2610155a_99120102037_CSMHeldrake01_873x627.jpg

Image: m2610370a_99810102015_CSMWarpsmithCFC02_873x627.jpg

I don't know what they are, but they look cool. I'm going to bed now, if they give me nightmares, I'll change this comment.

160 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:27:55am

re: #158 Kragar

I need to attend a good course on working with acrylics. Been trying to paint samurais and am bucking up against the limits of my abilities.

161 Kragar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:29:59am

re: #160 AK-47%

I need to attend a good course on working with acrylics. Been trying to paint samurais and am bucking up against the limits of my abilities.

Nice thing about acrylics is that you can just use water and Simple Green as thinner and solvent. Never attended an actual course, I'm completely self taught.

162 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:41:48am

re: #161 Kragar

Yes, I switched to acrylics a coupla years ago, no end of advantages other than that you have to prime figures with spray paint.

Tried to pick up a few tips along the way, worked fine for Napoleonic figures, but I am not up to snuff to get the samurai to look the way I want.

163 Kragar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:44:37am

re: #162 AK-47%

Yes, I switched to acrylics a coupla years ago, no end of advantages other than that you have to prime figures with spray paint.

Tried to pick up a few tips along the way, worked fine for Napoleonic figures, but I am not up to snuff to get the samurai to look the way I want.

The problem I've had lately is I'm working with resin based models. Not really liking the resin.

164 researchok  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:44:38am

Morning, all

165 researchok  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:45:45am

re: #148 Gus

In your dreams.
//

166 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:39:58am

So the Benghazi Handicaps will continue...next debate will be bout the middle East and foreign poolicy...Mitt is going to hammer Obama on being "soft", "accomodating" or at best "ill-prepared" to deal with developments there and tell us how he would do everything better...

This is the sort of thing that calls for too much nuance and background information to discuss in a debate format, especially when the outcome will be picked apart into separate sound bytes, individual phrases, followed by context- and content-free criticisms of his style and mannerisms.

Obama is going to have a hard time even holding ground on this one.

167 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:59:48am

re: #166 AK-47%

Obama should simply point out that if Romney had his way US soldiers would still be dying in Iraq for no good goddamn reason, that Romney called the US pullout from Iraq Obama's "signature failure." Then there's Romney calling Russia our #1 geopolitical adversary, saying he'd start a tariff war with China, and the prospect of Romney getting us involved in a bloody war with Iran.

Obama should point out that Romney is a spoiled rich warmonger who's $2 Trillion in extra defense spending is almost guaranteed to be accompanied by a price tag that can only be paid in blood and lives. He should also not be afraid to point out that he's received almost twice as many donations as Romney from active duty military and Pentagon employees.

168 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:09:04am

There are enough people who share Romney's views on Russia and Iraq, and enough more who are so ill-informed that they will be responsive to the sound byte-sized bits of ideological red meat he will be tossing out, along with the implications that Obama is somehow soft or accomodating on terror because he does not call for every t-head in the Middle East to be put to death in retribution for "acts of terror"...or was it "terrorist acts"?

169 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:19:51am

re: #168 AK-47%

There are enough people who share Romney's views on Russia and Iraq ...

Yep, they're called Republicans. Independents, by and large, have had their fill of that shit.

170 freetoken  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:26:36am

Telemann would be proud, I think:

171 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:33:51am

From Telemann to Telstar

172 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:37:50am

re: #170 freetoken

Telemann would be proud, I think:

[Embedded content]

swingle singers?

173 freetoken  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:48:42am

re: #172 AK-47%

Si.

174 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:51:48am

so what are you doing up at this hour? or are you in Europe, as I am (nearly noon here, I should be getting out to enjoy the warm fall sunshine, just waiting to hang up a load of laundry before I set out)

175 freetoken  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 3:04:28am

re: #174 AK-47%

To whom are you referring?

As for me, I just had my midnight snack... time to go beddy-bye, but I'll leave you all with this well known, and very pretty song, "Un bel di vedremo" by Puccini (from his Madama Butterfly). I suspect that Sammy Fain lifted part of this music for his Academy Award winning song "Love is a Many-Splendored Thing".

176 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 3:10:02am

you yourself...who else is posting?

177 freetoken  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 3:34:01am

re: #176 AK-47%

There are others, however, reading.

Since I'm still here... another little tune, this one from Saint-Saens' Samson and Dalila, "Mon Coeur s`ouvre a ta voix", which I strongly suspect also from which has been freely borrowed by some pop music writers:

178 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 4:45:34am

Ghostwriter.

179 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:06:12am

My latest page on Voter ID in PA. Short version, you do not need ID if you are voting in your regular polling place. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

180 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:30:27am

So, I wake up, sweep the floor, clean the fridge, do dishes, log on and read a post about how Iran isn't a threat. My paycheck still hasn't hit my account and I have to work today. Good times!!!
And good morning honcos.

181 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:33:40am

re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar

Get your talking points straight, man! Iran is not so much a threat as is Obama's refusal to admit that it is a threat and to start acting threateningly agaist them!

/

182 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:39:58am

Good morning lizards!

183 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:47:31am

So everyone now hates Politifact, run by the Tampa Bay Times, formerly the St. Pete Times. (Poynter Institute) Bet they all love 'em now!!!
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
BTW, I voted for all the FLA SC justices to be ousted. See, Taj Mahal.

184 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:51:18am

re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar

So everyone now hates Politifact, run by the Tampa Bay Times, formerly the St. Pete Times. (Poynter Institute) Bet they all love 'em now!!!
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
BTW, I voted for all the FLA SC justices to be ousted. See, Taj Mahal.

Screw you, Orlando Sentinel!!!
[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

185 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:53:13am

re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar

So everyone now hates Politifact, run by the Tampa Bay Times, formerly the St. Pete Times. (Poynter Institute) Bet they all love 'em now!!!
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
BTW, I voted for all the FLA SC justices to be ousted. See, Taj Mahal.

It's called selective outrage.

186 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:54:54am

re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why would they love them now? Am I missing something?

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:56:06am

re: #186 Obdicut

Why would they love them now? Am I missing something?

Well, there has been a rash of "Politifact is pure shit!!" here recently yet the Times still endorses Obama.

188 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:02:52am

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, there has been a rash of "Politifact is pure shit!!" here recently yet the Times still endorses Obama.

No, there hasn't. Nobody has said that Politifact is pure shit. What has been said is that a lot of their ratings are inexplicably at odds with their analysis, and that they've gotten some things wrong. In addition, their two-dimensional scale o truthiness is kind of game-showey, and is more of a marketing concept than something useful to people actually wanting to know the facts. If they dispensed with that and just did good writeups on the facts behind the controversies, I'd like 'em more.

They show their work, which makes them a step above most people offering an opinion, but they're not magically imbued with any qualities just by calling themselves factcheckers. In addition, the very limited number of statements they choose to vet skews things as well; for example, they've evaluated the truth of insane theocrat David Barton's statements, but they've picked his milder ones so in the end they rated them 'mostly true'. So, someone looking up Barton on Politifact might come away with the impression that he generally tells the truth.

So, no, it's not that people say that Politifact is shit. People do say that Politifact falls a long way short of being a reliable source of judgement, and that their standards for evaluation-- literal or non-literal-- change wildly between judgement.

If they actually wrote some standards for themselves to follow and adhere to them, they'd be better off.

Does this help?

189 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:05:53am

The latest Good Ship Moonbat Express stopped by IDF...

Israeli Navy boards Gaza-bound Estelle ship

IDF Navy forces boarded the Scandinavian Gaza-bound Estelle ship attempting to breach Israel's blockade on the Strip. Control over the ship was seized in Israeli territorial waters, as the IDF maintained its forces acted in accordance with the international law.

The ship is currently being led to the Port of Ashdod, an Israeli harbor near the Gaza Strip.

A statement released by the IDF Spokesperson's unit said that the army followed the orders of the Israeli government, only after appealing to the ship directly and through diplomatic channels in effort to prevent it from reaching Gaza.

190 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:06:28am

re: #188 Obdicut

Okie Dokie.

191 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:10:02am

Hey stealth downdinger, jump into the mix.

192 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:12:12am

re: #190 Cannadian Club Akbar

Okie Dokie.

I'm sorry, do you mean what I said makes sense and you understand that people aren't just saying Politifact are shit, but that it's flawed and they have criticisms of those flaws? The brevity of your reply robs it of clear meaning.

193 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:13:02am

re: #192 Obdicut

I'm sorry, do you mean what I said makes sense and you understand that people aren't just saying Politifact are shit, but that it's flawed and they have criticisms of those flaws? The brevity of your reply robs it of clear meaning.

Yes. Hope this helps.

194 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:13:49am

Worky.

195 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:14:52am

Good Morning Lizards.

I know pitifully little about the Middle East and Africa,the history and politics of these places seems to be far more complicated than I can wrap my head around.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've been reading,a guy named Eric Nordstrum had requested additional security(or a continuation of the current personnel)for the embassy in Tripoli. There were no requests to beef up security for the consulate in Benghazi beyond the addition of 2 or 3 more people. How that would have helped on 9/11/12 I have no idea. Is that correct or did I get in over my head?

When things like this happen,especially really far away,I never believe the initial reports because it's impossible to sort out facts in the middle of chaos. What pisses me off about this more than anything is people trying to claim anything was THE definitive report or account of what happened,not just in Benghazi but in the surrounding countries as well as within the layers of our own government right after this happened. A reasonable person would think it might take a couple of months at least before it's all sorted out.

196 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:18:30am

re: #193 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. Hope this helps.

Heh. That's still a brief reply, but more clear. Thanks.

One thing that a lot of people don't tend to consider when thinking about journalism is which stories are chosen to cover. It becomes really obvious when you're talking about a place like Drudge and their endless stream of stories about black people attacking white people: clearly, the site is choosing those stories above and beyond other ones in order to send a particular racist message.

But it's not just shitty places like Drudge that do this. Even the best places have limited space and can only engage with a small number of topics. So the choice of story is one of the biases in journalism that's hardest to evaluate or overcome.

197 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:23:55am

re: #188 Obdicut

I'd just like them to delve a little deeper before they declare things true or not. They seem to leave things out,like the David Barton example you gave. Or the thing about the Ryan plan for vouchers as being mostly true and parsing that with something about "premium support". No,it's a freaking voucher for far less than the actual amount of a decent insurance plan.

Doesn't make them the debil or anything,but what it means is you have to go research their evaluations because they leave stuff out,quite often.

198 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:24:32am

re: #195 A Mom Anon

Good Morning Lizards.

I know pitifully little about the Middle East and Africa,the history and politics of these places seems to be far more complicated than I can wrap my head around.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've been reading,a guy named Eric Nordstrum had requested additional security(or a continuation of the current personnel)for the embassy in Tripoli. There were no requests to beef up security for the consulate in Benghazi beyond the addition of 2 or 3 more people. How that would have helped on 9/11/12 I have no idea. Is that correct or did I get in over my head?

When things like this happen,especially really far away,I never believe the initial reports because it's impossible to sort out facts in the middle of chaos. What pisses me off about this more than anything is people trying to claim anything was THE definitive report or account of what happened,not just in Benghazi but in the surrounding countries as well as within the layers of our own government right after this happened. A reasonable person would think it might take a couple of months at least before it's all sorted out.

We don't harden consulates--they're just business offices, not meant to be held. Embassies are only hard enough to delay a determined attack long enough to destroy materials and documents and await friendly evacuation.
The whole story is BS. The guys who were killed were "just visiting" if early reports are accurate.

P.S. Early reports are almost never accurate, because the reporting process is wrecked by an attack or other disaster. Even now, very few people have a totally clear idea of what went on last month. That's normal.

199 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:31:52am

re: #198 Decatur Deb

That's what I was thinking,when I think of a consulate,I think of something like a smaller satellite office of a bigger company. The security there is directed toward keeping any sort of documentation and computers and stuff like that safe until they can be wiped clean or shredded in a bad situation,just as much as it would be to offer protection to the people from the State Dept. These places aren't meant to have a whole flock o'troops guarding them at all times. If you're going to do that then why not just set an embassy or consulate right in the middle of a military base?

200 kirkspencer  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:33:27am

re: #195 A Mom Anon

Good Morning Lizards.

I know pitifully little about the Middle East and Africa,the history and politics of these places seems to be far more complicated than I can wrap my head around.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what I've been reading,a guy named Eric Nordstrum had requested additional security(or a continuation of the current personnel)for the embassy in Tripoli. There were no requests to beef up security for the consulate in Benghazi beyond the addition of 2 or 3 more people. How that would have helped on 9/11/12 I have no idea. Is that correct or did I get in over my head?

When things like this happen,especially really far away,I never believe the initial reports because it's impossible to sort out facts in the middle of chaos. What pisses me off about this more than anything is people trying to claim anything was THE definitive report or account of what happened,not just in Benghazi but in the surrounding countries as well as within the layers of our own government right after this happened. A reasonable person would think it might take a couple of months at least before it's all sorted out.

The one thing that catches my eye is that not so long ago State asked for a few million more specifically for security, and Congress said no. If you've been in that situation you know what comes next. You look at all your needs and prioritize them. You send the minimum - as small as you can that is (hopefully) large enough to do the job. And when you run out, what is left does without.

Lots of blame here, but nothing that I would call irresponsible - not without dragging 9/11 and Beirut back into the discussion.

201 Cap'n Magic  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:36:32am

re: #34 Kragar

Holder couldn't prosecute a ham sandwich.

202 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:36:46am

The Epic Handwringing Concern Trolling about Libya is duly noted.

Romney stepped in it huge in a live debate and was corrected by the President and the moderator. Yet the partisan rhetorical pretzels continue to evolve into laughable dissertations on how Obama did/didn't say the word terror, or did say the word but didn't mean terror, or another terror but not this terror, or how the newswoman moderator was at fault for clarifying facts for the record, or how Obama was lying. It's as if the monster from John Carpenter's The Thing first copied the Energizer Bunnyrabbit then turned into Glenn Beck posing as an objective newsman, then the putrid intellectual dishonesty is broadcast via radio and TV to the mind numbed zombies just like in John Carpenter's They Live. My apologies to the brilliant John Carpenter.

The partisan energized intellectual dishonesty just continues to get weirder and it will not die. It just goes on and on and on and on.

But not for one second was this situation recognized as a grotesquely botched partisan exploitation of a tragic event that happened in real time right in front of us. The shock waves from the exploitation of the event match the actual implications of of the event itself with the ensuing idiocy of Issa Going Assange.

The Audacity of Dope, if you will.

203 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:37:35am

re: #199 A Mom Anon

Yep. Even in Israel, then our most secure embassy, we only had a couple dozen Marine Security Guards. We relied on Israeli contractor guards for most of our protection, and the regular Israeli police and military. My 17-yr old was dating one of the MSGs--they had to take an armored Suburban to cruise Tel Aviv, with an armed Israeli driver. A comforting system from a father's point of view.

204 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:49:48am

So wait, the Libyan attack was an Act of Terrorism or Terror or Terrorists?

Which is it today?

And how is your Saturday Morning?

205 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:50:49am

re: #203 Decatur Deb

Yipes. I should know more about all this than I do,but it's all I can do to wrap my head around basic American history and politics. Even though ours is intertwined with those places,it's really complex. There are no simple answers or situations it seems.

And with that,I promised the kiddo we'd go shopping for stuff for his dorm room today,so I am outta here. BBL

206 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:51:35am

re: #195 A Mom Anon

A reasonable person would think it might take a couple of months at least before it's all sorted out.

"Reasonable People" have left the building.

And they have until November 6th to "sort things out" in a manner that sheds the worst pooible light on the current administration.

207 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:51:36am

re: #204 ggt

Terrorizers. That's what I'm going with.

208 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:52:14am

re: #203 Decatur Deb

Yep. Even in Israel, then our most secure embassy, we only had a couple dozen Marine Security Guards. We relied on Israeli contractor guards for most of our protection, and the regular Israeli police and military. My 17-yr old was dating one of the MSGs--they had to take an armored Suburban to cruise Tel Aviv, with an armed Israeli driver. A comforting system from a father's point of view.

I first saw MSG as Master Sergeant & was like "Dating a 17YO???? WTF?" before I realized Marine Security Guard who was probably barely any older was the case here.

Yep, need more coffee... ;)

209 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:54:55am

re: #207 A Mom Anon

Terrorizers. That's what I'm going with.

Like Tenderizers? Can you get it at the Grocery Store?

210 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:55:05am

re: #202 Kronocide

It sound to me like Mitt thought he had his "Iran Hostage Crisis Incident" that he could exploit and jumped on it a bit to quickly, and is now blowing as much smoke as possible to distract from his f*ckup.

211 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:55:07am

re: #208 William Barnett-Lewis

I first saw MSG as Master Sergeant & was like "Dating a 17YO???? WTF?" before I realized Marine Security Guard who was probably barely any older was the case here.

Yep, need more coffee... ;)

Heh. Kid was a great E5. You've no idea how much I wish she had married him. (Not too many slugs among the MSGs, Richard Lonetree aside.)

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 6:57:09am

re: #205 A Mom Anon

Yipes. I should know more about all this than I do,but it's all I can do to wrap my head around basic American history and politics. Even though ours is intertwined with those places,it's really complex. There are no simple answers or situations it seems.

And with that,I promised the kiddo we'd go shopping for stuff for his dorm room today,so I am outta here. BBL

Complex and not so complex. The Western Nations have played Feudal Overlord for the Middle East and African countries for 100 years now. Everything we see is the result.

213 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:00:30am

re: #212 ggt

Complex and not so complex. The Western Nations have played Feudal Overlord for the Middle East and African countries for 100 years now. Everything we see is the result.

That's why the only possible solution is to get tough and let 'em know who's boss around there!!!

214 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:02:02am

re: #212 ggt

Complex and not so complex. The Western Nations have played Feudal Overlord for the Middle East and African countries for 100 years now. Everything we see is the result.

And religion. Religion is a lot of the reason, too. Fanaticism in pursuit of religion.

215 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:02:41am

Understanding the modern Middle East & Africa is really quite simple:

If things are only moderately to medium screwed up, the Germans were there. (Unfortunately most German places were later screwed up by the French and British post WWI. )

If things are really screwed up, the French or British were involved.

If things are FUBAR, then the British or Belgians were to blame. (See Congo, Rhodesia, Iraq for prime examples)

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:09:12am

Women are "small things"

"Republicans, in response, have long claimed that the "war on women" is a figment of Democrats' imaginations and that women's issues are "shiny objects of distraction" Democrats are using to take the spotlight off the real issues this election.

Rich Beeson, political director for Mitt Romney's campaign, echoed Ryan's sentiment in an interview with ABC7 News on Thursday, calling women's reproductive rights and equal pay "small things" that are not important to voters.

"Barack Obama four years ago said, 'If you don't have something to talk about on the issues you talk about the small things,'" Beeson said in response to a question about women's issues. "And that's what we're seeing from the Obama campaign ... They don't have an issue to run on, they dont have an agenda for the next term, so they want to talk about the small things and distract America from the important things of restoring and strengthening the middle class and putting America back to work."

217 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:10:24am

re: #207 A Mom Anon

Terrorizers. That's what I'm going with.

DubyaSpeak: Terrrorciders.

218 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:12:39am

re: #216 ggt

Women are "small things"

"Republicans, in response, have long claimed that the "war on women" is a figment of Democrats' imaginations and that women's issues are "shiny objects of distraction" Democrats are using to take the spotlight off the real issues this election.

Rich Beeson, political director for Mitt Romney's campaign, echoed Ryan's sentiment in an interview with ABC7 News on Thursday, calling women's reproductive rights and equal pay "small things" that are not important to voters.

"Barack Obama four years ago said, 'If you don't have something to talk about on the issues you talk about the small things,'" Beeson said in response to a question about women's issues. "And that's what we're seeing from the Obama campaign ... They don't have an issue to run on, they dont have an agenda for the next term, so they want to talk about the small things and distract America from the important things of restoring and strengthening the middle class and putting America back to work."

Fuck you, Beeson, you smarmy SOB. The rights to self-determination for me, my daughters, and all other women in this country is not a "small thing." It is the biggest thing...something that you and your ilk are going to be smacked upside the head with on November 6. Sadly, I still think you dumbasses won't get it.

219 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:21:50am
220 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:22:04am

Mitt likes to say that the true "women's issues" are jobs. I can agree with that to a great extent.

But women have an annoying tendency to want jobs that pay equally for equal work, and for jobs whose benfits also include contraceptive care and women's health services, the kind provided by Planned Prenthood.

221 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:27:34am

re: #217 Kronocide

DubyaSpeak: Terrrorciders.

Terracians!

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:31:49am

re: #220 AK-47%

Mitt likes to say that the true "women's issues" are jobs. I can agree with that to a great extent.

But women have an annoying tendency to want jobs that pay equally for equal work, and for jobs whose benfits also include contraceptive care and women's health services, the kind provided by Planned Prenthood.

It's really difficult to hold down a job when you are cannot space and plan your pregnancies. It's even harder to build a career that might, just might enable you to earn enough to raise those children and educate them. Damn near impossible if one is a single mother.

Economic stability begins in the bedroom, not the boardroom.

223 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:32:04am

re: #221 AK-47%

Terracians!

Terrans?

224 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:33:47am

re: #222 ggt

Why do I suspect this will not actually come as a surprise to many of our fine Republican leaders?

225 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:34:03am

re: #219 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Maybe they're celebrating

Libya gov't says former Gaddafi spokesman captured

The former spokesman of Muammar Gaddafi's government has been captured, exactly a year after the death of the Libyan dictator, the prime minister's office said on Saturday.

Moussa Ibrahim, who was the mouthpiece of the Gaddafi regime during last year's war, was caught in the town of Tarhouna, 70 km (40 miles) south of Tripoli.

"Moussa Ibrahim has been arrested by forces belonging to the Libyan government in the town of Tarhouna and he is being transferred to Tripoli to begin interrogation," a statement from the prime minister's office said.

Fluent in English, Ibrahim would hold regular press conferences in the luxury Tripoli hotel were journalists stayed during last year's war.

His whereabouts have been unknown since the fall of Tripoli in August 2011 but there have been past reports of his capture.

Saturday marks one year since Gaddafi's capture and death in his hometown Sirte, after he was caught hiding in a drain pipe. (Reporting by Ali Shuaib and Hadeel al-Shalchi; Writing by Marie-Louise Gumuchian; Editing by Alison Williams and Sophie Hares)

226 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:37:03am

re: #222 ggt

My wife broke her leg recently, and it really underscored for us how privileged we are. If she were an hourly worker, we'd be really hurting for money now, and if I were too I wouldn't be able to stay home and help take care of her while she heals. If we weren't economically comfortable we wouldn't be able to buy that set of pillows so she can rest comfortably, or pay for her to take a cab to and from lab so that she can still do the bare essentials she needs to at work.

We're not wealthy, we've just got a little cushion and don't have "Show up or you're fired" jobs, but it makes all the difference. I just do not get people who don't have sympathy for the poor and who refuse to understand how being poor exacerbates every little problem in life.

Oh, and even though she has insurance, we still have to spend hours and hours wrangling with the insurance company over what she'll pay, figure out which doctors take the insurance, etc. Not to mention a twelve hour emergency room visit since a lot of people use it as their source of primary care. Goddamn I want single payer.

227 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:40:31am

re: #226 Obdicut

As long as we have a system in which every single job and every single patient are reduced to a "how much profit can we squeeze out of this person?" bottom-line equation, that will be the standard and the way of life for all but a priveleged few.

228 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:41:00am

re: #226 Obdicut

Sorry about your wife's leg-I hope it heals fast. One of the things I like about belonging to Kaiser is that you don't have to go through the 'who takes what insurance', and will this blood test be covered, or do I have to go to a hospital to have the blood draw be covered? It's not perfect, but makes me think single payer would be a really, really good idea. Not to mention the fact that everyone would be covered.

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:41:55am

re: #224 calochortus

Why do I suspect this will not actually come as a surprise to many of our fine Republican leaders?

Why would a woman who is not married need to plan and space her pregnancies. I mean, unmarried men never do this. It must not really be necessary.

*spit*

230 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:43:10am

re: #229 ggt

Why would a woman who is not married need to plan and space her pregnancies. I mean, unmarried men never do this. It must not really be necessary.

*spit*

In Mitt's ideal world of Mormon Motherhood (or Rick Santorum's ideal Catholic Family), these questions do not arise, which is why they cannot begin to come up with realistic ways of approaching him.

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:43:51am

re: #230 AK-47%

In Mitt's ideal world of Mormon Motherhood (or Rick Santorum's ideal Catholic Family), these questions do not arise, which is why he cannot begin to come up with realistic ways of approaching him.

EXACTLY!!!

232 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:44:19am

re: #229 ggt

Well, you know, women need to be in their 'proper' place, and fear of pregnancy helps keep them in line.

233 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:45:32am

re: #230 AK-47%

In Mitt's ideal world of Mormon Motherhood (or Rick Santorum's ideal Catholic Family), these questions do not arise, which is why he cannot begin to come up with realistic ways of approaching him.

Mitt and Doofus are not typical, even among Mormons and Catholics. At some point working-class Mormons and Catholics will realize this. Or not.

234 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:46:02am

re: #228 calochortus

She has another two weeks with the splint, and then she'll get a boot that'll have more mobility and then another two or three months on that. It sucks, but it's an injury, not a sickness, and she's got a good attitude. We're also really lucky this happened during the PhD portion of her degrees, and not the MD part.

One of the main ridiculousnesses of the anti-single-payer argument is the claims of bureaucracy. It just fucking infuriates me, because if there is one phrase to describe our private insurance companies, it is bureaucratic holy hell red tape goddamn festering nightmares of Byzantine complexity and arbitrary procedures.

235 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:46:14am

re: #232 calochortus

Well, you know, women need to be in their 'proper' place, and fear of pregnancy helps keep them in line.

Same with poor men. It's an individual rights issue, unfortunately, it's being sold as a Women's issue.

Feudal Overlords keep their position by keeping their serfs rich in children and poor in every other way. Remember, Feudal Overlords have mistresses. . . .

236 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:46:36am

re: #230 AK-47%

In Mitt's ideal world of Mormon Motherhood (or Rick Santorum's ideal Catholic Family), these questions do not arise, which is why they cannot begin to come up with realistic ways of approaching him.

Au contraire, in the world of forced motherhood, children resulting from those awkward pregnancies are taken from the mother and adopted out to a "good" family. Family gets child, child gets family, birth mother punished. Problem solved.

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:46:46am

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Mitt and Doofus are not typical, even among Mormons and Catholics. At some point working-class Mormons and Catholics will realize this. Or not.

IIRC, I saw an article about Morman Women not supporting Mitt, but I can't find it now.

238 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:47:38am

re: #219 NJDhockeyfan

There are Protests throughout Beirut and the rest of Lebanon right now.

I have to imagine that the Hezbollah-Controlled Government want to quash these.

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Let's not jump to any conclusions. I have seen that story going from confirmed to disproven, and back again. I'll wait for someone other than Al-Arabiya to report it.

239 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:48:29am

re: #232 calochortus

Well, you know, women need to be in their 'proper' place, and fear of pregnancy helps keep them in line.

Santorum had a rather indirect way of stating that, implying that contraception distorted the nature of sex or something like that...he also impled that our economic decline was rooted in our moral decline and the growing number of single mothers.

240 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:48:32am

re: #236 calochortus

Au contraire, in the world of forced motherhood, children resulting from those awkward pregnancies are taken from the mother and adopted out to a "good" family. Family gets child, child gets family, birth mother punished. Problem solved.

Really, other than Michele Bachmann, which GOP candidate has truly put children first. She's whacko, but I do have to give her credit for the foster work she and her husband did. She should have concentrated on Family Law, I think she could have done some good there.

I don't see too many of those poor, minority, or disabled children being adopted. I do see little girls from China being adopted, but not American children so much.

241 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:48:51am

re: #236 calochortus

Abortion restrictions, as enacted by the GOP, do not actually represent an attitude that abortion is killing a human being, but they do indeed represent an attitude that the woman must be punished.

Image: aborshun.gif

242 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:49:15am

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Mitt and Doofus are not typical, even among Mormons and Catholics. At some point working-class Mormons and Catholics will realize this. Or not.

You would think that they would call them out, especially with 98% of Catholic women totally ignoring the church's teachings on contraception...

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:49:26am

re: #241 Obdicut

Abortion restrictions, as enacted by the GOP, do not actually represent an attitude that abortion is killing a human being, but they do indeed represent an attitude that the woman must be punished.

Image: aborshun.gif

I blame St. Augustine.

244 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:49:57am

re: #234 Obdicut

My daughter had to have ankle surgery during her residency-no weight on the ankle at all for 6 weeks. Was. Not. Fun. So I'm glad it's working out a bit better for your wife.

245 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:51:42am

re: #242 AK-47%

You would think that they would call them out, especially with 98% of Catholic women totally ignoring the church's teachings on contraception...

Catholics for Choice has one of my favorite graphics

246 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:51:42am

re: #238 ProGunLiberal

I now see Sky News reporting it. So, I will give belief to the story now.

247 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:51:48am

re: #242 AK-47%

You would think that they would call them out, especially with 98% of Catholic women totally ignoring the church's teachings on contraception...

"Don't Ask--Don't Tell" isn't just for gays.

248 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:52:37am

re: #246 ProGunLiberal

It's good to see you again and I hope that you're doing well.

249 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:53:12am

re: #247 Decatur Deb

"Don't Ask--Don't Tell" isn't just for gays.

The church itself is afraid to really press the issues because it knows that women would flee in droves. So they turn a blind eye to it the way they do with a lot of other "inconvenient" issues...

250 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:53:57am

re: #240 ggt

Healthy white infants-isn't that what's important? //

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:54:28am
252 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:55:23am

re: #250 calochortus

Healthy white infants-isn't that what's important? //

It's either that or anchor/terror babies. Which would you choose?

/

253 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:56:29am

re: #251 ggt

This pic is also rather telling . . .

Actually, lots of conservatives would see this photo as supporting their agument against single motherhood...

254 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:56:30am

re: #252 AK-47%

It's either that or anchor/terror babies. Which would you choose?

/

I just don't know which to choose. They're all so darned cute.

255 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:56:45am

re: #253 AK-47%

Actually, lots of conservatives would see this photo as supporting their agument against single motherhood...

LOL

256 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:56:50am

re: #248 Obdicut

Thanks.

In regards to News from the Middle East, I would recommend following this rule from Brown Moses (I follow him on Twitter about Syria). Don't believe any story from Al-Arabiya unless another, more reputable source comes out reports the same. Al-Arabiya is the Fox News of the Middle East.

257 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:59:36am

Have a great day all!

258 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 7:59:59am

Sadly, my coffee mug is empty, it's nearly 8:00 and I need to get out and start washing the windows before the sun hits the east side of the house.

259 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 8:06:41am
260 darthstar  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 8:10:18am

Mornin' everyone. How goes the debate prep? My guess is Mitt Romney's in a room right now with three teams of two advisors each putting different colored post-its on the wall representing his various positions on a given topic.

If Fox shows traction with the 'act of terror vs. terror acts' strategy, recite from the yellow post-its. If we're still getting laughed at over the Tuesday debate on Sunday, recite from the green post-its. And if we're getting our asses reamed in the polls in Virginia, fuck it, go back to your talking points about the economy...I don't care what the question is.

261 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 8:18:28am

re: #240 ggt

Really, other than Michele Bachmann, which GOP candidate has truly put children first. She's whacko, but I do have to give her credit for the foster work she and her husband did. She should have concentrated on Family Law, I think she could have done some good there.

I don't see too many of those poor, minority, or disabled children being adopted. I do see little girls from China being adopted, but not American children so much.

The older children with problems I've seen adopted have been by my gay couples friends.

262 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 8:29:42am

Fiscal conservative Scott Walker's bona fides in economics on display.

State job-creation agency never assigned staff to monitor loan repayments

For more than a year, the state's flagship jobs agency lost track of millions of dollars in past due loans for a simple reason: The new agency never designated staff or created a department to keep tabs on repayment of its portfolio of hundreds of taxpayer-funded loans totaling $69 million.

After that disclosure, Gov. Scott Walker quickly announced that a senior executive at the Wisconsin Economic Development Corp. had resigned Friday. He also named a new interim leader of the troubled agency, where staff are now scrambling to ensure repayment of nearly $9 million in outstanding loans, including $4 million to the company of a politically well-connected timber and paper investor.

Walker said Reed Hall, the longtime executive director and general counsel of the Marshfield Clinic, one of the largest private medical clinics in the country, would serve for two to three months as WEDC's chief executive officer while a permanent replacement is hired.

Ryan Murray, the new chief operating officer of WEDC, Friday disclosed the lack of a loan collections department at a meeting of the quasi-public agency's board, saying that from June 2011 until last week senior staff "had no idea" what the status was of the taxpayer-funded loans.

"You've hit on exactly the crux of the problem for the last year and a half," Murray said in response to a board member's question about the overlooked repayment unit. "When we created the WEDC from the Department of Commerce, it was a function that was simply not transferred over."

263 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 8:33:15am

re: #256 ProGunLiberal

Welcome back.

264 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 8:54:59am

re: #216 ggt

Women are "small things"

"Republicans, in response, have long claimed that the "war on women" is a figment of Democrats' imaginations and that women's issues are "shiny objects of distraction" Democrats are using to take the spotlight off the real issues this election.

Rich Beeson, political director for Mitt Romney's campaign, echoed Ryan's sentiment in an interview with ABC7 News on Thursday, calling women's reproductive rights and equal pay "small things" that are not important to voters.

"Barack Obama four years ago said, 'If you don't have something to talk about on the issues you talk about the small things,'" Beeson said in response to a question about women's issues. "And that's what we're seeing from the Obama campaign ... They don't have an issue to run on, they dont have an agenda for the next term, so they want to talk about the small things and distract America from the important things of restoring and strengthening the middle class and putting America back to work."

Here's Beeson again:

“We care about their vote,” said Rich Beeson, Mr. Romney’s political director, adding, “This is the kind of election where we are going to be out there fighting for every kind of vote.”

Oh, wait. That article is about the Latino vote. And not the Latina vote, I suppose.

265 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:05:35am
266 Mocking Jay  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:08:06am
267 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:09:19am
268 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:15:38am

re: #262 Amory Blaine

Fiscal conservative Scott Walker's bona fides in economics on display.

State job-creation agency never assigned staff to monitor loan repayments

Which only goes to prove that government doesn't work. Right?

269 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:18:51am

Contributions to Political Committees

CASTRO, ROBERT J MR.
BETHESDA, MD 20824
LUNTZ RESEARCH

BUSH, GEORGE W
VIA BUSH-CHENEY '04 COMPLIANCE COMMITTEE INC.
11/01/2004 500.00 25970095080

LUNTZ, FRANK
ARLINGTON, VA 22201
LUNTZ RESEARCH COMPANIES

RYAN, PAUL D.
VIA RYAN FOR CONGRESS
11/05/1998 1000.00 98034062063

LUNTZ, FRANK
ARLINGTON, VA 22209
LUNTZ RESEARCH CO

ROGAN, JAMES E
VIA ROGAN FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE
06/12/2000 500.00 20035780868

LUNTZ, FRANK
ARLINGTON, VA 22209
LUNTZ RESEARCH CO.

AMERICA COMING TOGETHER
10/01/2004 308.00 25990052010

WISSOT, MICHAEL
PACIFIC PALISADES, CA 90272
LUNTZ RESEARCH

KOLBE, JAMES T
VIA KOLBE FOR CONGRESS
07/09/2004 250.00 24962296920

Total Contributions: 2558.00

270 alpuz  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:20:04am

re: #262 Amory Blaine

Ah, yes.. team Walker's WEDC. A clusterf*ck from the get go. Will my 'fiscally' conservative acquaintances here in Wisconsin be outraged? No.. Why? Because.. 'THOSE GREEDY TEACHERS!!!' that's why.

I'm willing to bet 4 out of 5 of 'em will never even know this happened. When I
attempt to bring it up in their company I'll be met with contemptuous head shaking
and mumblings about liberals.

Is the comment section at jsonline still a cesspool?

271 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:21:55am

re: #268 Renaissance_Man

Which only goes to prove that government doesn't work. Right?

No, but it does prove the same things as Bank of America's foreclosure flummox: People who lend money need to be required to keep and maintain detailed records as to who owes them what, need to keep to ensure they know who is late and how much money is in arrears, and need to be able to produce those records when required.

272 alpuz  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:27:50am

re: #262 Amory Blaine

From the comment section at another website regarding the same boondoggle:

"This was a public meeting and a number of citizens showed up today to observe, including me. If you pay taxes in Wisconsin and listened to the details of how poorly this public/private boondoggle has been run, you would have wept. A newspaper article can only provide a few details. The rambling blame-shifting and excuse-making by Walker (who literally phoned it in rather than show up and face the taxpayers) was embarrassing. Paul Jadin might be a well-meaning person but he is in way over his head. Worst of all, it was clear that Walker and company had no transition plan and no business plan. They shuttered the Department of Commerce and opened up WEDC with no clue about anything. Today they decided the board should have a special session to figure out exactly what it is they are supposed to be doing. It was embarrassing to to sit there and listen to these fumbling, bumbling idiots pretend like they knew anything about running a multi-million dollar agency."

273 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:29:29am

This is a guy who sold state-owned power generating facilities to political cronies without public bidding. He knows about how to call in "debts", but only political ones.

274 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:34:05am

re: #272 alpuz

From the comment section at another website regarding the same boondoggle:

So they didn't keep track of business loans to the tune of 69 million dollars and suddenly Paul Jadin resigns from the WEDC and high tails it over to some organization called Thrive?

275 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:35:25am

So it seems that some members of the European Parliament were onboard the ship that tried to run the blockade into Gaza:

The ship, sailing under a Finnish flag, set sail in June and has stopped at numerous European ports trying to drum up support and publicity. The vessel, carrying over a dozen passengers, took on additional food and passengers off the coast of Crete earlier this week.

Among the new passengers are five European parliamentarians: Ricardo Sixto Iglesias from Spain, Sven Britton from Sweden, Aksel Hagen from Norway, and Vangelis Diamandopoulos and Dimitris Kodelas from Greece.

The Scandinavians are simply moonbats, but the Greeks and the Spaniard should be advised to worry more about how they're going to pay their nation's bills and less about what Israel is doing.

276 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:36:35am

So, is the FBI camped out at the Ecuadorian embassy, waiting for Issa(nge) to take refuge there?

277 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:36:44am

re: #273 AK-47%

This is a guy who sold state-owned power generating facilities to political cronies without public bidding. He knows about how to call in "debts", but only political ones.

Did that actually happen? Plans to sell those facilities were made, but I never read of them being implemented.

278 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:38:31am

re: #276 Shiplord Kirel

So, is the FBI camped out at the Ecuadorian embassy, waiting for Issa(nge) to take refuge there?

He's got Congressional Immunity. Bureau can't touch him.

279 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:43:27am

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

Did that actually happen? Plans to sell those facilities were made, but I never read of them being implemented.

It was the Koch Brothers behind it, even, but no, I never read about the follow-up. Busy looking now...

280 palomino  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:48:51am

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

He's got Congressional Immunity. Bureau can't touch him.

Then I guess that means his actions are just fine and dandy. Yeah, he's a real genius.

Actually he's reckless in his desire to make a name for himself. And kind of a wuss as a human being. He financed the gubernatorial recall here in Cali back in 2002. With the intention of putting his name on the ballot. When Ahhnold entered the race just a few days before the filing deadline, Issa gave a press conference in which he dropped his plans to run. And, in Boehner/Beck fashion, he cried throughout his commments. He's a child.

281 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:49:21am

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

He's got Congressional Immunity. Bureau can't touch him.

IF they wanted to really rattle some cages, the White House could ask Justice for a formal opinion about if Treason is covered by such immunity...

(Do I think it rises to that? No, of course not, but the screams and wingnut tears would be hilarious).

282 alpuz  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:49:29am

re: #274 Gus

From September:

One of Gov. Scott Walker's Cabinet members is resigning to lead a regional economic development agency in south-central Wisconsin.

[Link: host.madison.com...]

283 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:51:49am

Heh. In the truth is stranger than fiction category:

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Supreme Court Justices Elena Kagan and Antonin Scalia are ideological opposites, yet they share a pastime. They like to hunt together.

Kagan amused an audience Friday at the University of Tennessee College of Law in Knoxville with stories of how the conservative Scalia taught her to shoot fowl.

She said Scalia told her in the spring, "It's time to move on to the big game."

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

284 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:52:34am

re: #279 AK-47%

It was the Koch Brothers behind it, even, but no, I never read about the follow-up. Busy looking now...

OK, Thanks. I'd read about the the projected sale of the assets but I hadn't read that the sale had been carried through, and that makes a difference. Especially since it turns out that the meme about Walker wanting to privatize the state's deer herds earned a "Pants on Fire" rating, one must be careful in describing the follow-up to Scott Walker's words.

285 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:52:42am

re: #282 alpuz

From September:

[Link: host.madison.com...]

Those damn Democrats! No wait! //

Yeah, was reading that. Weird.

286 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:52:51am

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

He's got Congressional Immunity. Bureau can't touch him.

I am obviously not suggesting he really be arrested, the "sensitive but not classified" designation takes care of that. I am suggesting that this is a technicality, and he is morally responsible for a dangerous leak. Good thing for him, too. If this material were classified, as it probably should have been, Congressional immunity would not apply:

Maybe, maybe not:

The U.S. Supreme Court has gradually defined and redefined the Speech or Debate Clause in several cases over the years. The first case concerning the Speech and Debate Clause was Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. (13 Otto) 168, 26 L. Ed. 377 (1880). The Court has interpreted the Speech or Debate Clause to mean that members of Congress and their aides are immune from prosecution for their "legislative acts." This does not mean that members of Congress and their aides may not be prosecuted. Rather, evidence of legislative acts may not be used in a prosecution against a member of Congress or a congressional aide.

The main controversy surrounding the Speech or Debate Clause concerns the scope of the phrase "legislative acts." The phrase obviously encompasses speeches and debates on the floor of the Senate or the House of Representatives. According to the Supreme Court, voting, preparing committee reports, and conducting committee hearings also are legislative acts, but republishing legislative materials for distribution to constituents and accepting a bribe to influence a vote are not. (emphasis added)

I submit that re-publishing this material for the public on the committee site is not a legislative act, and would therefore not be subject to Congressional immunity.

287 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:53:50am

I've got to get going now. Sorry I can't stay but the day calls.

288 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:54:14am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Have good weekend Dark.

289 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:56:33am

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

OK, Thanks. I'd read about the the projected sale of the assets but I hadn't read that the sale had been carried through, and that makes a difference. Especially since it turns out that the meme about Walker wanting to privatize the state's deer herds earned a "Pants on Fire" rating, one must be careful in describing the follow-up to Scott Walker's words.

Only because the explosive reaction to the trial balloon made them back peddle at Mach 2... Had it gone over better, I have no doubt they'd have tried for it because that's his "deer czar's" dream.

290 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 9:58:46am

By the way, Robert Stacy McCain tweeted last night that I was "defending Al Qaeda" because of this post and the previous one, with a link to the crazy stalker blog to prove it.

Yep. Citing reports from the CIA that Al Qaeda was not involved in the Benghazi attack is now exactly the same as "defending Al Qaeda" in these crackheads' alleged minds.

291 alpuz  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:01:59am

re: #289 William Barnett-Lewis

Yep. The reason for the 'pants on fire' rating is because Kroll never said he had plans to privatize the land. No, he never actually said 'I'm going to privatize Wisconsin deer hunting lands' out loud. But lets just dismiss his long held beliefs regarding privatization.

Kroll:

"People who call for more public lands are ‘cocktail conservationists,’" he says, who are really pining for socialism. He calls national parks "wildlife ghettos" and flatly accuses the government of "gross mismanagement."

No need for concern.. especially seeing as how the WisGOP has been so open and upfront with their plans and actions.

292 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:02:18am

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

OK, Thanks. I'd read about the the projected sale of the assets but I hadn't read that the sale had been carried through, and that makes a difference. Especially since it turns out that the meme about Walker wanting to privatize the state's deer herds earned a "Pants on Fire" rating, one must be careful in describing the follow-up to Scott Walker's words.

He tried to bury in in some piece of legislation but was called out on it. It is right there in the wording. I guess he felt compelled to back down on it.

293 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:05:04am

re: #290 Charles Johnson

Just got done reading a piece about Libya on CNN. It talks about the aftermath of the overthrow, how things have gone better than many expected. Elections with little violence, militias sitting down to talk and negotiate rather than fight. All this supports the local militia-non AQ nature of the attack. Yes, the video as the proximate cause.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Might Page this.

294 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:06:07am

Anyone have any connection problems overnight? I don't see anything unusual in the logs.

295 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:07:12am

re: #290 Charles Johnson

By the way, Robert Stacy McCain tweeted last night that I was "defending Al Qaeda" because of this post and the previous one, with a link to the crazy stalker blog to prove it.

Yep. Citing reports from the CIA that Al Qaeda was not involved in the Benghazi attack is now exactly the same as "defending Al Qaeda" in these crackheads' alleged minds.

This is the right-wing approved story line: W.H. Tries to Write Al Qaeda Out of Libya Story. Which is over the Weakly Standard.

Apparently there are 1,000s of other "Al Qaeda supporters" out there.

296 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:08:07am

Benghazi trutherism.

297 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:09:26am

re: #290 Charles Johnson

By the way, Robert Stacy McCain tweeted last night that I was "defending Al Qaeda" because of this post and the previous one, with a link to the crazy stalker blog to prove it.

Yep. Citing reports from the CIA that Al Qaeda was not involved in the Benghazi attack is now exactly the same as "defending Al Qaeda" in these crackheads' alleged minds.

The only thing a link to the stalkers can prove is idiocy, which, for RSM, has already been proved over and over.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:09:32am

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Mitt and Doofus are not typical, even among Mormons and Catholics. At some point working-class Mormons and Catholics will realize this. Or not.

Catholics are a very split vote, but I'm going to guess that a majority of working-class Catholics vote Democrat.

The highly socially conservative type that Ryan represents is out there, but it's not at all normative, and most of them are solidly-to-upper-middle-class. And I don't think Ryan was raised like that...it's a fairly recent development.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:10:06am

re: #237 ggt

IIRC, I saw an article about Morman Women not supporting Mitt, but I can't find it now.

Would YOU support Mitt if you were a Mormon woman?

300 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:10:20am

re: #290 Charles Johnson

By the way, Robert Stacy McCain tweeted last night that I was "defending Al Qaeda" because of this post and the previous one, with a link to the crazy stalker blog to prove it.

Yep. Citing reports from the CIA that Al Qaeda was not involved in the Benghazi attack is now exactly the same as "defending Al Qaeda" in these crackheads' alleged minds.

Sheesh! And I'm defending Assange by equating him with a patriot like Darrell Issa.
////

The difference between Assange and Issa is that the latter is a real American, while the former is a kinky-looking foreigner. Assange sold out our friends and agents to our godless enemies, like the New York Times, while Mr. Issa inadvertently revealed their identities in an attempt to advance the same cause our friends and agents support and for which they would gladly sacrifice themselves if they understood the stakes and their real station in the new/old American Biblical society we hope to create.

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:10:35am

re: #239 AK-47%

Santorum had a rather indirect way of stating that, implying that contraception distorted the nature of sex or something like that..

Well, that, at least, is straight Church doctrine, unlike some of what he says.

302 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:10:42am

Remember folks, there was no Al-Quaeda, either in Iraq or Algeria, until they moved into the power vacuum created by the "regime change" we helped facilitate.

That is too much nuance for people screaming for revenge. And that is a big disadvantage in the current climate of political debate, which is all about sound bytes and lingering on isolated phrases.

303 bratwurst  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:11:18am

re: #296 Gus

Benghazi trutherism.

Chicago Tribune columnist Eric Zorn is calling these nitwits ‘ghazzers’.

304 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:11:47am

re: #300 Shiplord Kirel

Sheesh! And I'm defending Assange by equating him with a patriot like Darrell Issa.
////

LOL Who chiseled that drivel?

305 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:11:48am

re: #294 Charles Johnson

Anyone have any connection problems overnight? I don't see anything unusual in the logs.

I had a couple of connection errors.

306 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:13:29am

re: #305 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Do you know approximately what time they happened?

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:14:57am

re: #240 ggt

Really, other than Michele Bachmann, which GOP candidate has truly put children first. She's whacko, but I do have to give her credit for the foster work she and her husband did. She should have concentrated on Family Law, I think she could have done some good there.

I don't see too many of those poor, minority, or disabled children being adopted. I do see little girls from China being adopted, but not American children so much.

I used to work at a largely LGBT synagogue. A lot of members were adopting little girls from China. One man held out and said that if he was opening his home to a child, he wanted to help an American kid who needed someone. It took ages--we're talking about a financially stable, utterly saintly man who was willing to take any race and any disability he thought he could handle, but he was a single gay man, and the process takes forever anyway.

He finally got a baby, though, a beautiful little boy, and he was over the moon. I remember the day he showed up to tell the rabbi. I opened the door, and there was this guy wearing a baby in a chest sling, grinning ear to ear. He said, "Hi. I'm Mike, and this is MY BABY."

308 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:15:29am

re: #306 Charles Johnson

Do you know approximately what time they happened?

I think it was around 2 or 2:30 am Eastern time, but I couldn't give you an exact time. (And I'm a computer professional. I should keep better track of such stuff.)

309 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:18:47am

re: #300 Shiplord Kirel

Sheesh! And I'm defending Assange by equating him with a patriot like Darrell Issa.
////

Again. Who wrote that?

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:20:37am

re: #307 SanFranciscoZionist

I used to work at a largely LGBT synagogue. A lot of members were adopting little girls from China. One man held out and said that if he was opening his home to a child, he wanted to help an American kid who needed someone. It took ages--we're talking about a financially stable, utterly saintly man who was willing to take any race and any disability he thought he could handle, but he was a single gay man, and the process takes forever anyway.

He finally got a baby, though, a beautiful little boy, and he was over the moon. I remember the day he showed up to tell the rabbi. I opened the door, and there was this guy wearing a baby in a chest sling, grinning ear to ear. He said, "Hi. I'm Mike, and this is MY BABY."

The kids from China were also adorable. I see a lot of Asian teens and children at the local synagogues now. The face of American Jewry is changing a bit in this generation.

311 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:20:44am

re: #303 bratwurst

Chicago Tribune columnist Eric Zorn is calling these nitwits ‘ghazzers’.

That's a good one. Sounds like they're huffing something.

312 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:22:16am

re: #309 Gus

Again. Who wrote that?

Nobody but me. It's a projection of a "logical" step in the wingnut projection. Actually it's probably more logical than the claim that Charles defended AQ.

313 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:22:45am

Great sign.

314 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:25:28am

re: #313 wrenchwench

El Nacho Libre lives!!!

315 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:25:48am

re: #301 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that, at least, is straight Church doctrine, unlike some of what he says.

The Rhythm Method (Vatican Roulette) doesn't distort the nature of sex, not at all.

316 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:26:47am

re: #313 wrenchwench

And she's got a great background image on her Twitter page:

Image: Cactus__Rotorua.jpg

Misnamed, though. That's not a cactus.

317 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:29:11am

re: #316 wrenchwench

And she's got a great background image on her Twitter page:

Image: Cactus__Rotorua.jpg

Misnamed, though. That's not a cactus.

It's an ouchie plant.

318 AK-47%  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:29:52am

re: #315 Decatur Deb

The Rhythm Method (Vatican Roulette) doesn't distort the nature of sex, not at all.

Or as a Catholic friend once referred to it, "Whip it in, whip it out, wipe it off and worry!"

319 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:30:56am
320 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:31:29am

re: #316 wrenchwench

re: #317 Varek Raith

It is a succulent. At least it looks like one. [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

321 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:32:32am

re: #312 Shiplord Kirel

Nobody but me. It's a projection of a "logical" step in the wingnut projection. Actually it's probably more logical than the claim that Charles defended AQ.

Pretty accurate. I was wondering about some weird "sacrifice" angle these nutcases might be thinking of. That is they'd be willing to allow one of our operatives to die in helping to defeat Obama.

322 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:33:24am

re: #316 wrenchwench

Nice shot.

Donna tells me it is a cactus, all cactus are succulents but not all succulents are cacti. It's about the spines.

323 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:33:56am

re: #322 Daniel Ballard

True. Aloe is a succulent.

324 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:36:03am

I'm sure the CIA is now in on the fast growing wingnut conspiracy surrounding Benghazi.

325 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:36:09am

Of course: Iran points finger at Israel for Beirut bombing

"This action was taken with the aim of sowing dissension among different currents and segments of the Lebanese people and was conducted by an element who has never had in mind the interests of the Lebanese people and government and who only strives for its own impure interests and goals," said a statement posted on the Iranian Foreign Ministry's website.

"Without a doubt the main enemy of the people of Lebanon and the region is the Zionist regime (Israel), which benefits from insecurity and instability in the region," ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast said, according to the statement.

326 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:36:34am

re: #324 Gus

I'm sure the CIA is now in on the fast growing wingnut conspiracy surrounding Benghazi.

Look for the albino.
/

327 Gus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:38:45am

re: #326 Varek Raith

Look for the albino.
/

Petraeus has submitted to Sharia and Obama's eye beams!!

328 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:39:41am

Next Dan Brown novel.
/

329 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:45:32am

re: #322 Daniel Ballard

Nice shot.

Donna tells me it is a cactus, all cactus are succulents but not all succulents are cacti. It's about the spines.

It is a succulent, but not a cactus. Cactus spines radiate from areolas.

Image: cactus-areola-671.jpg

330 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:46:36am

I was unaware we had experts on cacti.
:P

331 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:50:04am

re: #320 PhillyPretzel

re: #317 Varek Raith

It is a succulent. At least it looks like one. [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

It's in this family, Agavoideae, which are not all succulents, but clearly this one is.

332 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:50:45am

re: #330 Varek Raith

I was unaware we had experts on cacti.
:P

Strictly amateur here, but I do live in New Mexico...

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:52:10am

re: #315 Decatur Deb

The Rhythm Method (Vatican Roulette) doesn't distort the nature of sex, not at all.

Ineffectual as it is, or at least used to be before you could do all the sophisticated sciencey stuff at home, it at least has the internal consistency that you don't have sex unless you are open theoretically to conception.

(A pair of family friends married one another about ten years ago. They were in their mid-to-late fifties, had grown children, and both had lost their first spouses a few years before. They had to go through the whole pre-Cana counseling shebang alongside the kids just starting out. Luckily, Father opened a couple of bottles of wine at the beginning of each session.

At some point, they were asked the whole 'open to conception' part. They about died laughing, but managed to tell Father that, should a miracle take place, sure, they were open to conception. No birth control. Promise!)

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:52:51am

re: #323 PhillyPretzel

True. Aloe is a succulent.

Aloe leaves do have those sort of serrated edges though.

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:53:14am

re: #330 Varek Raith

I was unaware we had experts on cacti.
:P

We have experts on EVERYTHING around here.

336 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:56:35am

Aloe polyphylla I think they come in right and left handed spirals.

337 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:58:10am

re: #336 calochortus

Aloe polyphylla I think they come in right and left handed spirals.

You sound like an expert.

Calochortus is a genus of plants that includes herbaceous, perennial and bulbous species.

338 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:00:44am

re: #337 wrenchwench

My husband knows way more than I do, but it does rub off.

Many calochortus are fine, upstanding California natives. Like me. ;-)

339 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:01:14am

re: #338 calochortus

My husband knows way more than I do, but it does rub off.

Many calochortus are fine, upstanding California natives. Like me. ;-)

Is that a tree pun?

340 calochortus  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:02:31am

re: #339 Varek Raith

No trees are involved...

341 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:29:01am

I had a MBD2 error on my android phone last night.


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