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GOP Leaders Leak Obama Fiscal Cliff Bid, Whine Furiously

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President Obama has made an opening bid on the fiscal cliff, and Republicans are freaking out, of course, whining furiously and leaking the proposal to the media. Ezra Klein’s take seems right to me: Obama to GOP: I’m Done Negotiating With Myself.

Perhaps the key lesson the White House took from the last couple of years is this: Don’t negotiate with yourself. If Republicans want to cut Medicare, let them propose the cuts. If they want to raise revenue through tax reform, let them identify the deductions. If they want deeper cuts in discretionary spending, let them settle on a number. And, above all, if they don’t like the White House’s preferred policies, let them propose their own. That way, if the White House eventually does give in and agree to some of their demands, Republicans will feel like they got one over on the president. A compromise isn’t measured by what you offer, it’s measured by what the other side feels they made you concede.

The GOP is right: This isn’t a serious proposal. But it’s not evidence that Obama isn’t serious. He’s very serious about not negotiating with himself, and his opening bid proves it. Now that they’ve leaked his initial offer, the next question is obvious: What’s their offer?

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82 comments

1 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:19:40am

this is outrageous. everybody knows that democrats are supposed to lay down meekly and let the gop ride over them

2 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:20:31am

"BUT WE WON THE HOUSE DAMMIT!"

3 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:22:36am

It's a political precipice.

4 erik_t  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:22:44am

Why, it's almost as if the Constitution mandates that budgets originate in the House, or something.

5 Lidane  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:24:23am

re: #4 erik_t

Why, it's almost as if the Constitution mandates that budgets originate in the House, or something.

"Wait, you mean I actually have to do the job I was elected to do?

It's Obama's fault!"

/House GOP

6 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:30:53am

Actually, I think the reason the Republicans are so unhappy that Obama isn't negotiating with himself is that all the cuts they want are unpopular. They're painful to some of their constituents. What this negotiation opening means is that those cuts will be all theirs. Oh, sure, they'll try to point out both sides agreed to the final compromise, and there will be a lot of people who believe them.

But who proposed what will now be a matter of record, and the 2014 election started a few weeks ago.

7 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:33:21am

I imagine he's frustrated. This is of course what happens when too many of your opponents not only don't respect you but think you're illegitimate in the first place. It really is too bad because if Obama had even a rational opposition to deal with, he could be a much more effective president but the GOP is dominated by obstructionists who care more about making Obama look bad than getting anything really done.

8 Bulworth  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:34:21am
What’s their offer?

What?! See? What'd I tell ya. Just more liberal media bias and character assassination.

9 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:37:13am
The White House’s belief was that by being solicitous in their policy proposals, they would win goodwill on the other side, and even if they didn’t, the media would side with them, realizing they’d sought compromise and been rebuffed. They don’t believe that anymore.

Hard to believe they were so naive. Good thing they got over it.

11 Bulworth  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:38:26am

Once upon a time, there was really only a "cliff" in regard to taxes. And that was a cliff written into the law by supporters of the Bush Tax Cuts. Now, there is an additional part of the cliff, this one also caused by Republicans in Congress who didn't want to raise the debt ceiling once Obama was elected. There are a few other items--the payroll tax cut, unemployment insurance, that are some of the items lumped in with the "cliff". But for the most part, the big pieces of the cliff are GOP inspired. It's not just Obama isn't negotiating with himself. He also seems uninterested in bailing the GOPTeabag out of circumstances they've created. Although a lot of voters obviously stand to lose as a result as well.

12 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:41:55am

So they are complaining because Obama's proposal is too much for them and instead of coming up with a counter proposal of their own they want him to go back to the drawing board and supply what should be their response for them?

Do your damn jobs you bunch of crybabies!

13 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:42:31am

New comments button doesn't seem to be displaying properly

14 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:46:52am

Rule Number 1 of negotiating: Never negotiate against yourself.
Rule 2: Never put out successive bids/offers.

Considering how unserious the GOP is about actually closing the deficit and would rather try to protect the top tax bracket from tax hikes while allowing everyone else to fend for themselves instead of offering up a tax plan that brings in sufficient revenues to begin closing the annual deficit as well as rein in long term deficits by reducing the amount of new debt being created.

The closest thing I've seen to a GOP proposal to deal with taxes is a proposal floated about on Twitter that would have the GOP suggest killing the state tax deduction that would raise about $1T over the next decade, in the hopes of causing a tax revolt in high income tax states (think NY/NJ/CA,CT, among others) because it would hit those states hardest, while low/no tax states would see no adverse effect.

Never mind that many of the same states that are high tax states are already the highest contributors to the federal revenue stream and this would add to that inbalance.

15 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:52:11am

re: #11 Bulworth

That's a riff on what I've been saying for the past couple of days - many in the GOP has already voted for tax hikes - caused by the expiration of the 2001/2003 Bush tax hikes and later extended by Congress in 2009 until the end of this year.

Everyone knew this would happen. Congress knew. The President knows. The public knows. But everyone wants to slice and dice the expiration/extension in a way most favorable to them. Obama wants the rates to continue for low/middle income brackets while allowing the top brackets to revert to the pre-2001 rate (39.6%), while the GOP wants to hold everyone up over that top tax bracket as though the temporary rates were sacrosanct.

The thing is that there's plenty of room to make a comprehensive deal on taxes and spending if the GOP were willing to concede that the top tax bracket isn't worth harming the economy over the short/long term in order to potentially pick up political points going into the 2014 midterms.

16 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:53:30am

What the...

[Link: usnews.nbcnews.com...]

17 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:54:20am

re: #10 Kragar

Scarborough to Republicans: Quit budget talks if Obama can’t get along like Clinton and Gingrich did

Should it be pointed out that Gingrich refused to pass Clinton's budget, leading to a government shutdown that caused a Republican surrender three weeks later? That Gingrich also boosted Clinton's personal approval rate by impeaching him for adultery while he was screwing around behind his sick wife's back?

18 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:55:34am

re: #17 Targetpractice

Should it be pointed out that Gingrich refused to pass Clinton's budget, leading to a government shutdown that caused a Republican surrender three weeks later? That Gingrich also boosted Clinton's personal approval rate by impeaching him for adultery while he was screwing around behind his sick wife's back?

NO U.
/GOP

19 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:56:04am

re: #17 Targetpractice

Should it be pointed out that Gingrich refused to pass Clinton's budget, leading to a government shutdown that caused a Republican surrender three weeks later? That Gingrich also boosted Clinton's personal approval rate by impeaching him for adultery while he was screwing around behind his sick wife's back?

Hopefully the GOP is learning quickly to stop listening to conservative pundits for their strategies and talking points.

(yea, right)
/

20 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:01:24pm

re: #19 Feline Fearless Leader

Hopefully the GOP is learning quickly to stop listening to conservative pundits for their strategies and talking points.

(yea, right)
/

They have all but completely outsourced strategy and PR to pundits. They should at least find some competent ones.

21 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:02:45pm

re: #20 Sol Berdinowitz

They have all but completely outsourced strategy and PR to pundits. They should at least find some competent ones.

It's like a bad lesson was taken from the Cold War. Brinksmanship worked so well against the Russians, let's try it against the Democrats!

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:03:35pm

And smear campaigns worked so well against Kerry in 2004, let's make that SOP!!!

23 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:08:43pm

Beck: A Dictator Will Seize Power in America Within the Next Five Years

On some days, Glenn Beck comes right out of the gate spitting fire on his radio program and today was just one such day, as yesterday's UN vote to recognize Palestine as a “non-member observer state" prompted Beck to go off about the Muslim Brotherhood-orchestrated power-grab carried out by Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi and the on-going protests that have erupted in response, prompting him to declare that same thing is going to happen in America within five years: "Mark my words, in the next five years you will see this very thing, somebody seizing power [and a] real democracy movement standing up, but who will stand up for them? No one!"

24 b_sharp  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:09:07pm

re: #21 Feline Fearless Leader

It's like a bad lesson was taken from the Cold War. Brinksmanship worked so well against the Russians, let's try it against the Democrats!

Don't the two antagonists have to be roughly equal in threat for that to work?

25 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:10:27pm

re: #23 Kragar

Beck: A Dictator Will Seize Power in America Within the Next Five Years

♫I got a jar of piss and guess what's inside it♫

26 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:12:33pm

re: #25 Varek Raith

♫I got a jar of piss and guess what's inside it♫

"I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET! I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET!"

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:16:20pm

re: #24 b_sharp

Don't the two antagonists have to be roughly equal in threat for that to work?

Not really. Possible for one side to overestimate their capabilities, underestimate the opponent's capabilities, or believe in some sort of moral superiority that will cause the opponent to cave and/or not call what is essentially a bluff. History is rife with confrontations of this sort leading to "weaker" powers overplaying things and getting caught in a confrontation they are essentially doomed to lose once they cross a certain threshold.

Probably one of the most famous was the Japanese initiating the Pacific-phase of World War II. Once they bombed Pearl Harbor and brought the US into the war (without the US almost immediately backing off) they were essentially doomed. It was mainly a matter of how long it was going to take.

28 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:17:08pm

Now I'm actually hearing wingnuts whining that Obama's out and about, selling his ideas to the public. "He's not taking it serious!" "He's avoiding it!" Remember when they said the same thing whenever Bush retreated to Crawford...oh wait...

29 erik_t  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:17:27pm

re: #23 Kragar

Beck: A Dictator Will Seize Power in America Within the Next Five Years

real democracy movement standing up, but who will stand up for them? No one!

Glenn, honey, it's hard to take you seriously when you contradict yourself inside individual sentences.

30 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:20:11pm

re: #29 erik_t

Glenn, honey, it's hard to take you seriously when you contradict yourself inside individual sentences.

Forget it, he's rolling.

31 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:20:24pm

I fear that the people to the right fringe of Glenn Beck (and there are enough of them) are going to adopt a strategy of provoking the government with threats and even acts of violence and then using the government's reaction as proof that they are out crack down on all "freedom-loving citizens".

32 Jack Burton  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:20:49pm

Speaking of Glenn Beck and his latest kookspiracy theory... the banner ad up top had an ad for the:

ZOMG OBAMA THIRD TERM!!1!!eleventy

Hey kooks, remember when the barking moonbats were saying this shit about GWB? Take a look in the mirror.

33 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:21:05pm

re: #26 Kragar

"I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET SHOWER! I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET SHOWER!"

FTFY LOL

34 Bulworth  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:21:14pm

re: #23 Kragar

Haven't we been living under the Worst Dictator In All Of History since 2009? /

35 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:22:27pm

re: #34 Bulworth

Haven't we been living under the Worst Dictator In All Of History since 2009? /

You just wait until Obama's third term comes up.
/

36 Kdizzle  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:23:36pm

Well either way my money is on the tax cuts for our financial and industrial elite staying put, and the middle and lower classes having to endure even more cuts to the safety net.

It always happens this way and it always will. When you throw in all the gerrymandered districts that the Republicans have created for themselves I just think that its foolish to believe that anything else will happen. I mean whats the impetus for the Republicans to play ball? They can lose every presidential election for the next twenty years and still have a majority in the house.

Call me cynical I guess.

37 engineer cat  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:24:19pm

Obama's third term

when fdr ran for a third term, some gop campaigners were running against him with the slogan "no man is good three times!"

38 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:24:58pm

re: #35 Kragar

You just wait until Obama's third term comes up.
/

Is that when he announces the reorganization of the United States into the First Galactic Empire?

//

39 erik_t  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:25:48pm

re: #37 engineer cat

Obama's third term

when fdr ran for a third term, some gop campaigners were running against him with the slogan "no man is good three times!"

Not without one hell of a short refractory period.

40 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:26:13pm

re: #38 Targetpractice

Is that when he announces the reorganization of the United States into the First Galactic Empire?

//

Dammit, Obama...
STOP STEALING MY PLANS!

41 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:27:15pm

re: #38 Targetpractice

Is that when he announces the reorganization of the United States into the First Galactic Empire?

//

I think he'll run on the Unification Wars platform.

42 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:28:27pm
43 EPR-radar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:32:24pm

Given how wonderfully productive it was for Obama to negotiate with himself for much of his first term, I can't imagine why he would stop now.

/dripping

45 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:33:51pm

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Mutant carp already reportedly registering to vote in that district, citing lax environmental laws and poor maintenance of local railways and bridges as driving their renewed interest in the franchise. GOP pundits counter that they are just mud suckers trying to get free stuff.

(Creek the chemicals spilled into goes into the Delaware roughly opposite the Philadelphia airport.)

47 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:34:41pm

re: #46 Kragar

Are you trying to make Jesus cry?

Fischer: It Hurts God’s Feelings if We Don’t Use Fossil Fuels

I don't even.....

48 erik_t  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:37:51pm

re: #46 Kragar

Are you trying to make Jesus cry?

Fischer: It Hurts God’s Feelings if We Don’t Use Fossil Fuels

Curiously, it doesn't hurt God's fee-fees if we don't use the lumps of squishy thinkmeat he so graciously installed in our heads.

Well, most of our heads.

49 HappyWarrior  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:37:51pm

Seems to me that people like Glenn Beck really want a dictatorship so they can get their martyr on.

50 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:39:54pm

re: #46 Kragar

Are you trying to make Jesus cry?

Fischer: It Hurts God’s Feelings if We Don’t Use Fossil Fuels

I keep waiting for The Onion to throw their hands up and admit defeat.

51 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:40:31pm

re: #46 Kragar

Are you trying to make Jesus cry?

Fischer: It Hurts God’s Feelings if We Don’t Use Fossil Fuels

Articles like that make the Baby Onion cry.

52 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:40:47pm

re: #23 Kragar

Beck: A Dictator Will Seize Power in America Within the Next Five Years

Sigh. The "Obama's third term" conspiracy, obfuscated.

53 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:42:17pm

re: #52 kirkspencer

Sigh. The "Obama's third term" conspiracy, obfuscated.

Naw, he's predicting Hillary Clinton winning in 2016 and precipitating the Conservative Armageddon.
/

54 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:45:28pm

re: #23 Kragar

Beck: A Dictator Will Seize Power in America Within the Next Five Years

It is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in that the only way that happens is if he gets the gun-toting extremist wingnut crowd so riled up that they attempt their "take back the country" nonsense. Then yes, you end up with martial law and armed forces in the streets, at least temporarily, but not because the government started it.

55 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:49:02pm

I'd like to point out one of the things about this play (the original post) that makes me laugh uproariously.

The Republicans leaked the offer.

See, when you negotiate you can be closed or open. The reason for being open is to get the public behind you and 'force' the other side to agree. It's not usually considered good tactics as it makes the other side rather bitter, and in most systems the other side can still stab you in the back later. But I digress.

The reason for closed negotiation is so that both sides can, well, negotiate. They can drop or weaken provisions the public hasn't seized upon, they can swallow painful points the other side brings, and come to something that's tolerable by all sides. Not beloved, but tolerable.

Now the Republicans leaked the other side's position. What this means, basically, is that they think the majority of the public will disagree with the positions.

Think about that. They just lost an election in which Obama mentioned all those points as part of his positions. Yet they appear to still be convinced that "real americans (tm)" will force him to back off the positions.

Apparently the elections didn't crack the echo chamber, and I'm laughing.

On the other hand I'm also not laughing. Because this means they're going to act exactly as they did in the preceding four years, which in turn means that for the next two years things aren't going to get done (mostly). It's going to be, well, an interesting ride.

56 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:49:03pm

re: #50 Targetpractice

I keep waiting for The Onion to throw their hands up and admit defeat.

If been waiting for an article where they say they are shutting down because politics have become so deranged that it has become impossible to parody. That one would really make you wonder if it was satire or not, Poe's law indeed.

58 erik_t  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:50:35pm

Completely OT, I'm not sure if this (MRE instruction detail) will ever stop being funny.

Anonymous Mr. Creator of Rock Or Something, I hope you got a freaking medal.

59 Ming  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:50:41pm

The President may need to take his case to the American people, every week, as a matter of routine, and to say very clearly and publicly, in effect, "this is what I'm trying to negotiate with Congress, and this is how, if necessary, I will get around Congress on (whatever the particular issue is)."

The Democrats won the popular vote, in aggregate, for the House of Representatives on November 6, 2012. The GOP won more seats, thanks to gerrymandering. This puts the President in a better position to take his case directly to the people, more and more often.

60 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:51:21pm

re: #54 watching you tiny alien kittens are

It is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in that the only way that happens is if he gets the gun-toting extremist wingnut crowd so riled up that they attempt their "take back the country" nonsense. Then yes, you end up with martial law and armed forces in the streets, at least temporarily, but not because the government started it.

But, as I pointed out earlier in #31, the government's very response to their threats and acts of violence will be then held up as proof that the government is out to get us all - at least all us god-fearing citizens.

61 erik_t  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:52:06pm
62 Kragar  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 12:56:32pm

re: #60 Sol Berdinowitz

But, as i pointed out earlier, the government's respnse to their threats and acts of violence will be then held up as proof that the government is out to get us all - at least all us god-fearing citizens.

I have no reason to fear Crom. I feel sorry for those who live in a relationship with an abusive deity.

63 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:01:57pm

re: #62 Kragar

I have no reason to fear Crom. I feel sorry for those who live in a relationship with an abusive deity.

they live in a confrontational relationship with reality...

64 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:02:33pm

re: #55 kirkspencer

Well, this Congress is shaping up to best even the Do Nothing Congress in terms of producing less legislation than any other. And it's comprised of enough people who have misogynistic and anti-intellectual/anti-science positions among the GOP to make it stand out as a Know-Nothing Congress.

65 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:06:15pm

re: #64 lawhawk

Well, this Congress is shaping up to best even the Do Nothing Congress in terms of producing less legislation than any other. And it's comprised of enough people who have misogynistic and anti-intellectual/anti-science positions among the GOP to make it stand out as a Know-Nothing Congress.

It gets better. Was reading at WaPo earlier that Boehner's promised, if Reid moves forward with filibuster reform, that any bills coming from the Senate will be considered DOA in the House.

66 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:07:05pm

It's the Great American Nightmare. /nodding to Mr. Rob Zombie on Charles' playlist

67 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:07:25pm

re: #61 erik_t

Not really any worse than the current one.

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:08:00pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

It gets better. Was reading at WaPo earlier that Boehner's promised, if Reid moves forward with filibuster reform, that any bills coming from the Senate will be considered DOA in the House.

Problem is, the GOP is most likely going to gain seats in 2014 and, as they did in 2010, and see this as a justification of their approach.

69 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:10:22pm

re: #68 Sol Berdinowitz

Problem is, the GOP is most likely going to gain seats in 2014 and, as they did in 2010, and see this as a justification of their approach.

Let's be honest, they'd still do it even if Reid refused to move forward with filibuster reform. They'll just declare that gaining the Senate majority is a mandate to get things done, and part of doing that is ensuring that the minority can't filibuster everything they do.

70 allegro  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:12:52pm

re: #69 Targetpractice

Let's be honest, they'd still do it even if Reid refused to move forward with filibuster reform. They'll just declare that gaining the Senate majority is a mandate to get things done, and part of doing that is ensuring that the minority can't filibuster everything they do.

Right now I think the timing is golden to deal with a lot of these issues. The public awareness has increased thanks to the election and more sensitive to just who is creating their problems. Pound it into the sand now while the pounding is good. Make the GOP own the obstruction.

71 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:16:47pm

re: #68 Sol Berdinowitz

Problem is, the GOP is most likely going to gain seats in 2014 and, as they did in 2010, and see this as a justification of their approach.

Challenge. See, the justification for that is "the off party always gains seats during the third election of a two term president". And once upon a time nobody from California had ever been president, and no black man had ever been president, and, well, the list goes on.

If nothing happens and it's blindingly obvious to everyone that the reason is obstruction by Republicans, the re-election chances of Democrats are not hurt.

72 Amory Blaine  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:20:14pm

re: #66 lawhawk

I've been listening to John5 lately..

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:20:36pm

Remember, the GOP talking points are that Obama won because

a) he promised lots of free stuff to underclass people
b) he is black and the MSM are too PC and chickenshit to criticize him
c) he cheated (we don't know how, but me must have, how could all those polls be off?)

The conclusion: we don't need to change anything in the GOP, just clean up how we deliver our message.

74 Targetpractice  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:21:46pm

re: #73 Sol Berdinowitz

Remember, the GOP talking points are that Obama won because

a) he promised lots of free stuff to underclass people
b) he is black and the MSM are too PC and chickenshit to criticize him
c) he cheated (we don't know how, but me must have, how could all those polls be off?)

The conclusion: we don't need to change anything in the GOP, just clean up how we deliver our message.

"Keep plugging away and eventually we'll get that lightning in a bottle again that was Reagan. See, if Romney had had the same percentage of white voters out there as Reagan did, he'd have won by a landslide!"

75 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:23:06pm

re: #71 kirkspencer

Note that in the upcoming 2014 midterms that there are more Democrats than GOPers up for reelection - and we're talking swing states.

Twenty Democratic senators are up for reelection in 2014, compared to only 13 Republicans. Despite the Democratic successes the last time this group of senators was up for election in 2008, many of their seats are in Republican-leaning, or swing, states.

It is possible that the GOP could do a better GOTV than they did in 2012 and could pick up a seat here and there.

Guess we'll have to consult the Oracle of 538 on this one... that is once he starts to focus on the 2014 midterms...

76 funky chicken  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:27:14pm

re: #55 kirkspencer

Exactly.

And I think it's a serious proposal. I don't know why Klein would say otherwise.

77 funky chicken  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:29:08pm

re: #68 Sol Berdinowitz

Problem is, the GOP is most likely going to gain seats in 2014 and, as they did in 2010, and see this as a justification of their approach.

They won't gain seats if they proudly assume the banner of protectors of the super wealthy oil companies. Or if tea party/anti-abortion extremists win their primary elections.

78 Amory Blaine  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:29:53pm

Never underestimate the bloodlust of the American electorate.

79 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:32:32pm

Given the numbers the various PACs and such would simply be happy with a "throw all the bums out" campaign knowing that it would hurt the Democrats more than the Republicans. Plus figuring that they will keep more or their incumbents anyways, or better yet, replace them with TPGOP radicals.

80 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:37:30pm

re: #75 lawhawk

Note that in the upcoming 2014 midterms that there are more Democrats than GOPers up for reelection - and we're talking swing states.

It is possible that the GOP could do a better GOTV than they did in 2012 and could pick up a seat here and there.

Guess we'll have to consult the Oracle of 538 on this one... that is once he starts to focus on the 2014 midterms...

It is a midterm election, the GOP still shows up in droves because of the Religious Right groups pushing their people. Whereas traditionally a lot of the Dem base stays home because there is no president on the ballot to bother with voting for. The republicans typical swamp the number of democrats in the midterms except for where some important local amendment issue is on the ballot.

81 mr.fusion  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 1:57:47pm

They cry about wanting cuts to Medicare, but when the President cuts Medicare they smack him and his allies over the head with it and promise to restore the cuts.

I wouldn't negotiate with the GOP either...These guys are a joke.

82 chadu  Fri, Nov 30, 2012 8:52:39pm

re: #1 engineer cat

Yup, this is exactly about the Dems rolling over... or not.


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Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

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Recent Pages
FemNaziBitch
Women want a men’s movement. We are literally dying for it. —Gloria Steinem
It's way past time to put on the pads, guys. We've got to put our shoulders to the wheel of change if we're going to stop domestic and sexual violence. Are you ready to suit up for the big ...

5 hours, 31 minutes ago
Views: 81 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Cheechako
Election Day Might Not Decide Who Wins Senate Control
By Charles BabingtonThe Associated Press WASHINGTON -- A suspenseful election night is one thing, but what if it stretches for a month? Or into next year? A handful of tight races in some states make for the possibility that Election ...

6 hours, 28 minutes ago
Views: 86 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Randall Gross
Rockefellers to Switch Investments to ‘Clean Energy’
The Rockefeller Brothers Fund is joining a coalition of philanthropists pledging to rid themselves of more than $50 bn (£31 bn) in fossil fuel assets. The announcement will be made on Monday, a day before the UN climate change ...

7 hours, 52 minutes ago
Views: 91 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Souliren
Cape Breton fiddler Andrea Beaton
Celtic Colours Festival 2010 Everyone seems to be having fun here.

2 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 274 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
Bubblehead II
LOHAN Coming to the States
Cool. Due to Spain being a jerk, the Registers bringing their LOHAN project to the States. More specifically, New Mexico's Spaceport America Don't let the cheesy writing style and Brit humor of the Registers reporters put you off. There is ...

2 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 288 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
theliel
AEI Decides to Weigh in on #GamersGate
So Polygon showcases the AEI's anti-femminist response to #gamergate talking about how games are for dudes and dudes need that space to continue being dudes and bitches should get back in that kitchen where they belong. Link is to Polygon ...

5 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 449 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
CriticalDragon1177
Alternet - Nicholas Wade’s Flawed Book Rewrites the History of Scientific Racism
Jon Phillips takes on Nicholas Wade's claims, and proves once again that so called "scientific" racism is little more than a pseudoscience. This was originally posted in September 2014 edition of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report, ( ...

6 days, 3 hours ago
Views: 624 • Comments: 3
Tweets: 3 • Rating: 5
Lumberhead
Angry Letters to the One Member of Congress Who Voted Against the War on Terror - the Atlantic
My first attempt at a page - so here we go: The article is a little long but well worth while. I found it to be nicely balanced with interesting excerpts from supporters as well as detractors. Barbara Lee was ...

1 week ago
Views: 646 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 7
The War TARDIS
Doctor Who “Listen” Open Thread
I'm back. Last week, I couldn't do this thread, as something more important was going on. One of my best friends, a sweet, and very devout Christian, is going to the UK to help a Christian Group in Oxford, and ...

1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 592 • Comments: 42
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
Rightwingconspirator
Are Higher Frame Rates Really a Better Moving Image in Cinema?
As a guy who scratches the surface of this medium with humble indy efforts and some industrial video experience I have to watch carefully. If I commit to the wrong camera or format, it can hurt financially. Once I had ...

1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 791 • Comments: 7
Tweets: 25 • Rating: 7
 Frank says:

Did anybody dance? -- Said after performing the highly, shall we say, evolved "Black Page #2" on "Zappa In New York". (And as you probably already know, this was the song that alerted FZ to the existance of his stunt guitarist to be,Steve Vai, after recieving a sheet music transcription of the song, made by young master Vai.)