Witness: Michael Brown Did Not Reach for Police Weapon Before He Was Shot to Death

And police have not even interviewed him
US News • Views: 25,393

MSNBC

In this clip from Chris Hayes’ MSNBC show All In, Michael Brown’s friend Dorin Johnson describes what happened when a Ferguson, Missouri police officer shot Brown to death. Johnson’s account differs radically from the official police account; he says Brown never “assaulted” the officer or tried to grab his gun.

It’s very interesting that although Johnson’s lawyer and the NAACP have contacted the police to make him available, the police have not interviewed him yet. But in an investigation, it’s vital to interview witnesses as soon after a violent incident as possible. This does not smell right.

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99 comments
1 Testy Toad T  Aug 12, 2014 12:51:32pm

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I’m not yet ready to say the entire department isn’t just stupendously incompetent, although some good ol’ blue line conspiratorial solidarity is certainly plausible.

2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 12, 2014 12:52:09pm

I have to say In cringed when Hayes asked if Johnson and Brown were “tight”.

3 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 12, 2014 12:54:05pm

Yes, the more time passes, the higher the chance of the testimony contamination (i.e. the earliest testimonies are the most valuable and media-independent). The police procedure reeks.

4 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 12:54:33pm

Terrible police work all around. If this cop walks, gonna be angry.

5 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 12:55:08pm

re: #3 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yes, the more time passes, the higher the chance of the testimony contamination (i.e. the earliest testimonies are the most valuable and media-independent). The police procedure reeks.

I thought I smelled something.

6 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 12:55:21pm

Police said the man, identified as 60-year-old Douglas Leguin, called 911 to say he was part of the anti-government sovereign citizen movement.

Investigators said the man apparently set the Dumpster fire and called in the missing persons report as part of a planned ambush on officers.

The man, who was armed with an AK-47 and wearing a towel or bandana around his head, set off a smoke bomb and shot off propane tanks during a brief SWAT standoff.

He surrendered to police and will be charged with seven counts of aggravated assault on a public servant.

A fire, firing an AK-47 at the cops, and setting up an ambush designed to kill cops, and cops still got him to surrender.

But an unarmed kid walking down the street gets shot 10 times.

Fuck this bullshit.

7 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 12, 2014 12:56:34pm

re: #4 HappyWarrior

Terrible police work all around. If this cop walks, gonna be angry.

And there will be more riots which will be blamed on…

8 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 12:57:02pm

re: #7 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And there will be more riots which will be blamed on…

Yeah sigh.

9 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 12, 2014 12:57:42pm

re: #3 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yes, the more time passes, the higher the chance of the testimony contamination (i.e. the earliest testimonies are the most valuable and media-independent). The police procedure reeks.

Remember the film “Z”? These guys musta studied it…

10 Testy Toad T  Aug 12, 2014 12:59:00pm

re: #6 Kragar

The man, who was armed with an AK-47 and wearing a towel or bandana around his head, set off a smoke bomb and shot off propane tanks during a brief SWAT standoff.

It sure is a goddamned shame Janet Napolitano didn’t warn us about this possibility.

11 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 12, 2014 1:01:05pm

re: #10 Testy Toad T

It sure is a goddamned shame Janet Napolitano didn’t warn us about this possibility.

Any warning were drowned out in shouts or RWNJ rage about “ignoring the real terrorists” and “plotting a FEMA takeover”.

12 theliel  Aug 12, 2014 1:01:21pm

re: #1 Testy Toad T

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I’m not yet ready to say the entire department isn’t just stupendously incompetent, although some good ol’ blue line conspiratorial solidarity is certainly plausible.

Sufficiently Advanced Stupidity is Indistinguishable from Malice

13 Targetpractice  Aug 12, 2014 1:03:46pm

Like with Trayvon Martin, I find myself wondering more and more if what we’re seeing on display truly is ineptitude or “good ol’ boys” trying to protect one of their own. Get the feeling that, had this not made national news, it would have just been another shooting written off as “suicide by cop,” with the cop’s story taken as the gospel truth.

14 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:06:07pm
15 SteveMcGazi  Aug 12, 2014 1:06:50pm

Are that many police officers being fired on by black men that any movement is a threat?

16 Ace-o-aces  Aug 12, 2014 1:06:53pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Like with Trayvon Martin, I find myself wondering more and more if what we’re seeing on display truly is ineptitude or “good ol’ boys” trying to protect one of their own.

Probably both. “Good ol’ boys” protecting their inept colleague.

17 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 12, 2014 1:07:08pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

This raises the old issue of the cops’ words being taken over those of simple mortals, like, everywhere (even regardless of the race issue).

18 Dr Lizardo  Aug 12, 2014 1:07:56pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Like with Trayvon Martin, I find myself wondering more and more if what we’re seeing on display truly is ineptitude or “good ol’ boys” trying to protect one of their own. Get the feeling that, had this not made national news, it would have just been another shooting written off as “suicide by cop,” with the cop’s story taken as the gospel truth.

A combination of both most likely - and I’m pretty sure the Ferguson PD simply has no idea whatsoever had to handle a situation like this that’s the focus of national media attention.

They’re in the national spotlight and they don’t know how to deal it with beyond “circle the wagons”.

19 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:08:41pm

You know, I am old enough to remember the uproar over rap music using incendiary language about the police. Shit like this. What’s worse? People not being able to handle fuck the police or a possible another incident of the cops letting one of their own get away with murder.

20 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:10:44pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Like with Trayvon Martin, I find myself wondering more and more if what we’re seeing on display truly is ineptitude or “good ol’ boys” trying to protect one of their own. Get the feeling that, had this not made national news, it would have just been another shooting written off as “suicide by cop,” with the cop’s story taken as the gospel truth.

The cop left a witness alive. That was his first mistake. Also, the victim was unarmed, and was by all accounts a good kid that was supposed to start college yesterday. That’s mistake #2. The police leaving his body in the street for hours, refusing to talk to the witness, and their actions since are mistakes #3 - infinity.

Something is deeply rotten in the Ferguson PD. These are not the actions of a police department that is serious about solving this kid’s murder. They’ve gone full retard in a bid to either change the subject or protect one of their own from any accountability.

21 Ace-o-aces  Aug 12, 2014 1:11:01pm

re: #15 SteveMcGazi

Are that many police officers being fired on by black men that any movement is a threat?

That’s the great irony of all this police militarization. Violent crime is at historic lows, yet cops are being armed like a post-apocalyptic army.

22 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:12:11pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

You know, I am old enough to remember the uproar over rap music using incendiary language about the police. Shit like this. What’s worse? People not being able to handle fuck the police or a possible another incident of the cops letting one of their own get away with murder.

The same assholes who were outraged by “Fuck the Police” and “Cop Killer” 20 years ago are the ones saying “Molon Labe!” and “2nd Amendment solutions” against the government today.

23 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:12:33pm

re: #20 Lidane

The cop left a witness alive. That was his first mistake. Also, the victim was unarmed, and was by all accounts a good kid that was supposed to start college yesterday. That’s mistake #2. The police leaving his body in the street for hours, refusing to talk to the witness, and their actions since are mistakes #3 - infinity.

Something is deeply rotten in the Ferguson PD. These are not the actions of a police department that is serious about solving this kid’s murder. They’ve gone full retard in a bid to either change the subject or protect one of their own from any accountability.

This case is a poster child for why the feds need to get involved at times.

24 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:12:59pm

re: #22 Kragar

The same assholes who were outraged by “Fuck the Police” and “Cop Killer” 20 years ago are the ones saying “Molon Labe!” and “2nd Amendment solutions” against the government today.

Yep and cheer Ted Nugent on when he tells people to suck on his gun.

25 Targetpractice  Aug 12, 2014 1:13:19pm

re: #20 Lidane

The cop left a witness alive. That was his first mistake. Also, the victim was unarmed, and was by all accounts a good kid that was supposed to start college yesterday. That’s mistake #2. The police leaving his body in the street for hours, refusing to talk to the witness, and their actions since are mistakes #3 - infinity.

Something is deeply rotten in the Ferguson PD. These are not the actions of a police department that is serious about solving this kid’s murder. They’ve gone full retard in a bid to either change the subject or protect one of their own from any accountability.

Indeed, there’s just too much going on to write off stuff like failure to interview witnesses as incompetence. I’m finding it difficult to see anything but intentional malice behind their action or inaction so far. This is not the behavior we expect when a police department is keeping its nose clean.

26 Eventual Carrion  Aug 12, 2014 1:14:02pm

re: #21 Ace-o-aces

That’s the great irony of all this police militarization. Violent crime is at historic lows, yet cops are being armed like a post-apocalyptic army.

With the same mindset, us vs them.

27 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:14:22pm

re: #22 Kragar

The same assholes who were outraged by “Fuck the Police” and “Cop Killer” 20 years ago are the ones saying “Molon Labe!” and “2nd Amendment solutions” against the government today.

Yeah, but look at the skin color of the people who recorded “Fuck tha Police” and “Cop Killer”.

I also remember the shitstorm over Public Enemy’s “911 is a Joke” and “Fight the Power”. The fact that PE is still lyrically relevant 25 years later is amazing to me.

28 Bulworth  Aug 12, 2014 1:14:55pm

re:
#6

Dim Jim is going through this man’s FB page as we speak, tossing aside the many likes for tea party groups, 2nd Amendment fanboys and Operation American Spring affiliates hoping to find that one like for Greg Palast.

29 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 12, 2014 1:14:56pm

Vietnam veteran and retired meteorologist Neal Marchbanks has taken on the uphill task of opposing Randy Neugebauer for the District 19 congressional seat in west Texas. Neal is a rock solid guy in every respect, and quite a wit as well.

The incumbent, Neugebauer, is most noted for yelling “baby killer” at President Obama, abusing a park ranger during the government shutdown he himself helped instigate, and generally being a tool of corporate money grubbers. He keeps a very low profile otherwise, never introducing and seldom commenting on legislation.
I have repeatedly issued public appeals for any fatcats who actually have access to Randy to take and publish a photograph of him holding today’s newspaper, so the peasantry in his district will at least know he is still alive.

30 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:15:56pm
31 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:16:09pm

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel

Vietnam veteran and retired meteorologist Neal Marchbanks has taken on the uphill task of opposing Randy Neugebauer for the District 19 congressional seat in west Texas. Neal is a rock solid guy in every respect, and quite a wit as well.

The incumbent, Neugebauer, is most noted for yelling “baby killer” at President Obama, abusing a park ranger during the government shutdown he himself helped instigate, and generally being a tool of corporate money grubbers. He keeps a very low profile otherwise, never introducing and seldom commenting on legislation.
I have repeatedly issued public appeals for any fatcats who actually have access to Randy to take and publish a photograph of him holding today’s newspaper, so the peasantry in his district will at least know he still alive.

I wish him the best of luck. Tpugh road ahead though since I swear some of these people will vote Republican no matter what.

32 Targetpractice  Aug 12, 2014 1:16:12pm

re: #21 Ace-o-aces

That’s the great irony of all this police militarization. Violent crime is at historic lows, yet cops are being armed like a post-apocalyptic army.

A line from Battlestar Galactica seems oddly appropriate here:

“There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”

33 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:16:40pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

A line from Battlestar Galactica seems oddly appropriate here:

“There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”

Damned good line, damned good line.

34 Interesting Times  Aug 12, 2014 1:18:55pm

re: #30 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Why bother? They already have this one.

35 danarchy  Aug 12, 2014 1:19:02pm

re: #21 Ace-o-aces

That’s the great irony of all this police militarization. Violent crime is at historic lows, yet cops are being armed like a post-apocalyptic army.

I think it really took off after the North Hollywood bank robbery back in 1997. I remember watching it live and seeing reports of police commandeering weapons from a local sporting goods store because their service weapons couldn’t penetrate the body armor the thieves were wearing.

36 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:20:57pm

re: #23 HappyWarrior

This case is a poster child for why the feds need to get involved at times.

It’s also a poster child for why Posse Comitatus is bullshit.

37 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:21:30pm

I think a lot of these problems go back to the defense budget. So instead of thinking maybe we cut the defense budget. We continue to spend and the excess equipment goes to the police. We don’t need our police to resemble militarizes.

38 Dr Lizardo  Aug 12, 2014 1:21:56pm

re: #27 Lidane

Yeah, but look at the skin color of the people who recorded “Fuck tha Police” and “Cop Killer”.

I also remember the shitstorm over Public Enemy’s “911 is a Joke” and “Fight the Power”. The fact that PE is still lyrically relevant 25 years later is amazing to me.

Yep.

As a matter of fact, the reaction we see from the wingnuts, the Breitbrats, the Ben Shapiro’s and Dellingpole’s of the world is nicely summarized by this Public Enemy number:

Youtube Video

39 Bulworth  Aug 12, 2014 1:22:15pm

re:
#32

and yet somehow when the Clive Bundy militia takes over federal property and aims its weapons at federal officials, or when the mob blocks schoolbuses the police do nothing.

Of course there’s a backstory here, the desire to minimize violence and avoid unnecessary loss of life, especially after Waco and Ruby Ridge.

But the result that some populations and protests created with kid gloves, others get the riot police.

40 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:22:19pm

re: #36 Lidane

It’s also a poster child for why Posse Comitatus is bullshit.

The Posse Comitatus act exists because the local governments in the South wanted to be able to get away with exactly this sort of bullshit.

41 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:22:20pm

re: #36 Lidane

It’s also a poster child for why Posse Comitatus is bullshit.

Not familiar with that. Explain, please, sorry.

42 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:23:11pm

re: #40 Kragar

The Posse Comitatus act exists because the local governments in the South wanted to be able to get away with exactly this sort of bullshit.

Oh so this is something that came about in Reconstruction or the Civil Rights era?

43 Targetpractice  Aug 12, 2014 1:23:32pm

re: #35 danarchy

I think it really took off after the North Hollywood bank robbery back in 1997. I remember watching it live and seeing reports of police commandeering weapons from a local sporting goods store because their service weapons couldn’t penetrate the body armor the thieves were wearing.

It started there, then picked up speed after Columbine, when frightened parents started demanding that cops have the training and firepower to bring a swift end to a situation involved armed gunman in a school rather than waiting for SWAT to arrive.

44 GeneJockey  Aug 12, 2014 1:23:47pm

re: #35 danarchy

I think it really took off after the North Hollywood bank robbery back in 1997. I remember watching it live and seeing reports of police commandeering weapons from a local sporting goods store because their service weapons couldn’t penetrate the body armor the thieves were wearing.

…which the thieves wouldn’t have without a noisy minority obsessed with nonexistent out-of-control crime, demanding more and bigger and more dangerous weapons to protect themselves from their own nightmares.

45 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:23:50pm

re: #42 HappyWarrior

Oh so this is something that came about in Reconstruction or the Civil Rights era?

Reconstruction: en.wikipedia.org

46 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:24:12pm

re: #45 Lidane

Reconstruction: en.wikipedia.org

Thanks!

47 petesh  Aug 12, 2014 1:24:32pm

re: #1 Testy Toad T

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Oh, come on. In the initial response, the head cop was claiming that the investigation would take a minimum of five or six weeks because that’s when they would be getting the toxicology report, which was say whether the corpse was on drugs when he was shot. That’s not stupidity, that is clearly malice, an attempt to spread the idea that the victim was a druggie who deserved it.

Similarly, not interviewing a contemporary eyewitness is absolutely unjustifiable. Don’t even try.

48 b_sharp  Aug 12, 2014 1:24:35pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Not familiar with that. Explain, please, sorry.

Are you Canadian?

49 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:25:17pm

re: #48 b_sharp

Are you Canadian?

I seriously had never heard of it.

50 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:25:52pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Not familiar with that. Explain, please, sorry.

Southern politicians got fed up with Federal troops being deployed in the South during Reconstruction, so managed to pass the Posse Comitatus Act, limiting the ability of Federal troops to be deployed inside the United States.

The Act, § 15 of the appropriations bill for the Army for 1879, found at 20 Stat. 152, was a response to, and subsequent prohibition of, the military occupation by United States Army troops of the former Confederate States during the ten years of Reconstruction (1867-1877) following the American Civil War (1861-1865). The president withdrew federal troops from Southern states as a result of a compromise in one of the most disputed national elections in American history, the 1876 U.S. presidential election. Samuel J. Tilden of New York, the Democratic candidate, defeated Republican candidate Rutherford B. Hayes of Ohio in the popular vote. Tilden garnered 184 electoral votes to Hayes’ 165; 20 disputed electoral votes remained uncounted. After a bitter fight, Congress struck a deal resolving the dispute and awarding the presidency to Hayes.

In return for Southern acquiescence regarding Hayes, Republicans agreed to support the withdrawal of federal troops from the former Confederate states, ending Reconstruction. Known as the Compromise of 1877, South Carolina, Florida and Louisiana agreed to certify Rutherford B. Hayes as the President in exchange for the removal of Federal troops from the South.[1] The U.S. Constitution places primary responsibility for the holding of elections in the hands of the individual states. The maintenance of peace, conduct of orderly elections, and prosecution of unlawful actions are all state responsibilities, pursuant of any state’s role of exercising police power and maintaining law and order, whether part of a wider federation or a unitary state.

During the local, state, and federal elections of 1874 and 1876 in the former Confederate states, all levels of government chose not to exercise their police powers to maintain law and order.[1] Many acts of violence, and a suppression of the vote of some political and racial groups, resulted in the election of state legislators and U.S. congressmen who halted and reversed political reform in the American South.[1]

51 GeneJockey  Aug 12, 2014 1:25:56pm

re: #39 Bulworth

re:
#32

and yet somehow when the Clive Bundy militia takes over federal property and aims its weapons at federal officials, or when the mob blocks schoolbuses the police do nothing.

Of course there’s a backstory here, the desire to minimize violence and avoid unnecessary loss of life, especially after Waco and Ruby Ridge.

But the result that some populations and protests created with kid gloves, others get the riot police.

If only there were something, some basic difference between the populations that explained the difference in response. Oh, well. Some things are just a mystery.
/////////////////////

52 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:26:53pm

re: #50 Kragar

Southern politicians got fed up with Federal troops being deployed in the South during Reconstruction, so managed to pass the Posse Comitatus Act, limiting the ability of Federal troops to be deployed inside the United States.

Thanks. Makes sense to me now.

53 GeneJockey  Aug 12, 2014 1:28:07pm

re: #50 Kragar

Southern politicians got fed up with Federal troops being deployed in the South during Reconstruction, so managed to pass the Posse Comitatus Act, limiting the ability of Federal troops to be deployed inside the United States.

So, once again, we have the South to thank. Can we PLEASE agree to let them go next time?
//

54 Bulworth  Aug 12, 2014 1:28:51pm

re:
#35

Yup, I remember that. Made into a movie, too.

55 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:28:58pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

Thanks. Makes sense to me now.

Rachel Maddow had a really great segment during the Bundy Ranch idiocy going into the history of Posse Comitatus and how it’s interpreted by the RWNJs now. I’m pretty sure Charles front paged it at the time.

56 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:29:16pm

re: #53 GeneJockey

So, once again, we have the South to thank. Can we PLEASE agree to let them go next time?
//

I have to live here you know. I know you’re joking.

57 Targetpractice  Aug 12, 2014 1:29:39pm

re: #50 Kragar

Southern politicians got fed up with Federal troops being deployed in the South during Reconstruction, so managed to pass the Posse Comitatus Act, limiting the ability of Federal troops to be deployed inside the United States.

This, of course, has backfired on them at times. Like recently, since their “put troops on the border” BS lacks any teeth because our soldiers have no law enforcement powers except in the event of martial law. Meaning the most they can do is direct refugees to the nearest Border Patrol agent.

58 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:29:46pm

re: #55 Lidane

Rachel Maddow had a really great segment during the Bundy Ranch idiocy going into the history of Posse Comitatus and how it’s interpreted by the RWNJs now. I’m pretty sure Charles front paged it at the time.

Ahh okay. Don’t know how I missed that but thanks to both you and Kragar for helping out here.

59 b_sharp  Aug 12, 2014 1:30:36pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

I seriously had never heard of it.

No, I meant the apology.

Sorry, just trying to add a little levity.

60 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:31:07pm

From the relative little I know about Reconstruction, put me in Eric Foner’s camp in that it did not go far enough and it was a huge missed opportunity. Foner by the way is naturally despised by many right wing “campus watchers.” He’s also an old acquaintance of one of my favorite professors I had in community college.

61 Bulworth  Aug 12, 2014 1:31:33pm

re:
#50

Thanks for this.

How did this Act limit, or not limit, the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations in the 50s and 60s in enforcing Civil Rights?

Also wonder about how, with the labor strikes in the years immediately after Reconstruction, the states frequently called for—demanded even—the feds come in and break the strikes. (The Pinkerton Guards helped companies/states break the strikes, too).

62 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:32:11pm

re: #59 b_sharp

No, I meant the apology.

Sorry, just trying to add a little levity.

Ah nah if I were Canadian, I’d say it the weird way you guys say it. Just teasing but it has become the only way I can tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

63 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:32:55pm

re: #61 Bulworth

re:
#50

Thanks for this.

How did this Act limit, or not limit, the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations in the 50s and 60s in enforcing Civil Rights?

Also wonder about how, with the labor strikes in the years immediately after Reconstruction, the states frequently called for—demanded even—the feds come in and break the strikes. (The Pinkerton Guards helped companies/states break the strikes, too).

Yeah I’m almost positive that the military was called in during Haymarket and or Homestead.

64 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:32:57pm

EXCLUSIVE: Texas anti-gay leader Jonathan Saenz’s ex-wife left him for another woman

Mere months before Jonathan Saenz became president of the anti-gay group Texas Values, his wife left him for another woman, according to Hays County district court records obtained by Lone Star Q.

The revelation could help explain Saenz’s seemingly abrupt transformation from socially conservative lobbyist to homophobic firebrand.

Saenz, a devout Catholic, has been a right-wing operative in Texas for many years — working on abortion and religious liberty cases as a staff attorney for the Plano-based Liberty Legal Institute as far back as 2005.

However, it wasn’t until recently that Saenz emerged as one of the state’s best-known — and most extreme — anti-LGBT voices.

65 Dr Lizardo  Aug 12, 2014 1:34:40pm

re: #64 Kragar

Youtube Video

66 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:34:55pm

re: #64 Kragar

EXCLUSIVE: Texas anti-gay leader Jonathan Saenz’s ex-wife left him for another woman

Couldn’t happen to a nicer asshole.

67 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:35:09pm

re: #64 Kragar

EXCLUSIVE: Texas anti-gay leader Jonathan Saenz’s ex-wife left him for another woman

That explains a lot:

Afterward, Jonathan Saenz, the leader of Texas Values, concluded the press conference with his own ominous warning: “You’re going to see more and more people recognize the tremendous threat of redefining marriage and I think it is becoming very clear to people that if marriage is redefined, religious liberty will be obliterated.”

“You will see more attacks on churches than you are already seeing right now and they have already started, because that is the goal to a lot of people, it is not simply to change the definition of marriage but essentially to destroy it and to have a type of sexual behavior being recognized and protected in law that will be to the detriment of our society and to churches across our country.”

68 b_sharp  Aug 12, 2014 1:35:30pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

Ah nah if I were Canadian, I’d say it the weird way you guys say it. Just teasing but it has become the only way I can tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

We’re taller, shorter, thinner, fatter and better looking.

69 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 12, 2014 1:35:59pm

Late to the thread, on break…

Has anyone pointed out once the kid was fleeing with his hands up it no longer effing matters if he went for the cops gun? Plus-That’s an easy allegation for a cop to make ad hoc. Short of really in car / on scene great camera coverage who can tell?

Benefit of the doubt-“Went for the gun” Is that to mean hands went somwhere/anywhere close to the gun or actually grabbed it?

70 Testy Toad T  Aug 12, 2014 1:36:25pm

re: #64 Kragar

EXCLUSIVE: Texas anti-gay leader Jonathan Saenz’s ex-wife left him for another woman

If we don’t act now, his next ex-wife is going to leave him for a dog!

71 Lidane  Aug 12, 2014 1:38:12pm

re: #69 Rightwingconspirator

Benefit of the doubt-“Went for the gun” Is that to mean hands went somwhere/anywhere close to the gun or actually grabbed it?

It means whatever the Ferguson PD wants it to mean, really.

They haven’t even talked to the primary witness who was right there. Do you honestly think they give a shit about what the definition of “went for the gun” means?

72 ObserverArt  Aug 12, 2014 1:38:19pm

re: #33 HappyWarrior

Damned good line, damned good line.

I was talking with a friend this afternoon and in our discussion we were wondering if too many police departments are hiring ex-military from Iraq 1 and 2 and they are bringing a totally different mindset to policing.

It might make the quote from Battlestar Galactica more real since the police may be more and more made up of ex-military.

“There’s a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”

73 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:39:40pm

re: #68 b_sharp

We’re taller, shorter, thinner, fatter and better looking.

Yeah but how many hot dog eating contests at Nathan’s has Canada won? USA! USA! USA!

74 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:41:42pm
75 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:42:10pm

re: #74 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Too busy at their Breitbart keyboards.

76 gwangung  Aug 12, 2014 1:42:15pm
77 Teukka  Aug 12, 2014 1:44:46pm

re: #74 Kragar

78 Kragar  Aug 12, 2014 1:46:34pm

re: #77 Teukka

79 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 12, 2014 1:48:05pm

re: #71 Lidane

It means whatever the Ferguson PD wants it to mean, really.

They haven’t even talked to the primary witness who was right there. Do you honestly think they give a shit about what the definition of “went for the gun” means?

I understand, but my point is about how police use of force policy must be defined and is accountable to the public. I don’t give a shit if they give a shit. We care enough to stay on this and drill down to shine the light on the whole department top to bottom. FBI and justice dept.

80 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:48:31pm

re: #78 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah but black people make readers at Breitbart, NRO, and other rags feel uncomfortable.

81 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 12, 2014 1:48:47pm

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Yeah I’m almost positive that the military was called in during Haymarket and or Homestead.

I believe that a state of emergency or martial law has to be declared, which is a given in the event of labor unrest…

82 b_sharp  Aug 12, 2014 1:50:39pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

Yeah but black people make readers at Breitbart, NRO, and other rags feel uncomfortable.

Breitbart readers are too busy gagging on their own bile to look up and see reality for what it is.

83 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 12, 2014 1:53:04pm

Buzz Aldrin on Robin Williams

I regarded Robin Williams as a friend and fellow sufferer. His passing is a great loss. The torment of depression and the complications of addiction that accompany it affect millions, including myself and family members before me - my grandfather committed suicide before I was born and my mother the year before I went to the moon - along with hundreds of veterans who come to a similar fate each year. As individuals and as a nation we need to be compassionate and supportive of all who suffer and give them the resources to face life. #RobinWilliams RIP

84 ausador  Aug 12, 2014 1:53:28pm

When the police and/or county prosecutor(s) do interview this kid they are going to focus on every tiniest inconsistency in the now four (five?) video statements he has given on this. They are going to eat him alive and say that his statement isn’t credible, especially when/if this gets to court.

This isn’t them being stupid, this is them being calculating about being able to discredit him as a witness.

IMHO…

85 wrenchwench  Aug 12, 2014 1:54:42pm
86 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 1:58:15pm

re: #83 Shiplord Kirel

Buzz Aldrin on Robin Williams

Buzz as always is a gentleman. TCOT complaining about the media coverage of a “liberal celebrity who was a cowardly drug addict” should listen to Buzz. Have to say, I knew Buzz suffered from depression but was not aware of the toll it had taken on his family.

87 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 12, 2014 1:58:54pm

In which Bryan Fischer proves, once again, that he is a Horrible Human Being

I actually watched this video about halfway before I had to turn it off, but you all know what Bryan thinks is the answer to his question.

88 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 12, 2014 2:01:44pm

Here is another Horrible Human Being.
It’s a DISEASE like CANCER you fucking asshole. People do not CHOOSE depression any more than they choose cancer or diabetes. And people die from depression just like they die from cancer.

89 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 2:01:52pm

re: #87 Pie-onist Overlord

In which Bryan Fischer proves, ones again, that he is a Horrible Human Being

I actually watched this video about halfway before I had to turn it off, but you all know what Bryan thinks is the answer to his question.

[Embedded content]

This guy just can’t help himself being one of the biggest ghouls in what already is a ghoulish bunch. Really Bryan. Show some fucking respect to Robin’s family and friends while they mourn their friend, father, and husband who did more for other people on his worse days than you’ve ever done. Seriously, I’ve never seen Bryan Fischer once act or even try to act like a decent person. Just judgmental crap from this fuckwad who thinks he is without sin.

90 GeneJockey  Aug 12, 2014 2:01:54pm

re: #87 Pie-onist Overlord

In which Bryan Fischer proves, ones again, that he is a Horrible Human Being

I actually watched this video about halfway before I had to turn it off, but you all know what Bryan thinks is the answer to his question.

[Embedded content]

I suppose his answer has to do with ‘throwing away God’s greatest gift’, which would make me question the existence of god if I weren’t already atheist - what kind of god creates people to be so miserable that death seems preferable to life, then punishes them eternally if they can’t take it? Not one I’d spare a second’s praise for.

91 GeneJockey  Aug 12, 2014 2:03:38pm

re: #88 Pie-onist Overlord

Here is another Horrible Human Being.
It’s a DISEASE like CANCER you fucking asshole. People do not CHOOSE depression any more than they choose cancer or diabetes. And people die from depression just like they die from cancer.

[Embedded content]

I’d be lying if I said this surprised me, coming from him. I always wonder what kind of god folks like that believe in, that would think that kind of response to another’s pain is a good thing.

92 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 12, 2014 2:08:13pm

re: #81 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I believe that a state of emergency or martial law has to be declared, which is a given in the event of labor unrest…

The Posse Comitatus Actexplicitly did not supersede the Insurrection Act of 1807,

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—
(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution

President Eisenhower specifically used powers derived from the Enforcement Acts to order troops into Little Rock in 1958. These too are not superseded by Posse Comitatus. The latter states:

From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress

The Insurrection Act and the Enforcement Acts were just such acts of Congress. What Posse Comitatus really does is prevent law enforcement officials from routinely using the military under the officials’ own authority.
For example, the president can send federal troops to suppress a riot, but a local sheriff cannot aske the military to send troops out to man roadblocks or beat the bushes for illicit marijuana farms.

93 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 12, 2014 2:09:20pm

re: #83 Shiplord Kirel

Buzz Aldrin on Robin Williams

Respect for Buzz just went up a few notches.

94 HappyWarrior  Aug 12, 2014 2:09:23pm

re: #91 GeneJockey

I’d be lying if I said this surprised me, coming from him. I always wonder what kind of god folks like that believe in, that would think that kind of response to another’s pain is a good thing.

Honestly if people like Bryan want to know why so many in my generation aren’t religious. Well, when you’re kicking a man around before he’s even buried and judging him without having a clue about his inner demons and suffering, it turns people off. I used to consider myself something of a Christian and to this day I still want to believe in Heaven but I see so much use of religion by people like Bryan to make the world a worse place. Not really fair granted given that there were people out there like Robin who are religious people who do the total opposite but it seems to me that religion has more people like Bryan than not. I as said have never seen this guy once show any compassion or empathy for a fellow human being. He just hates. That’s all he does. Doesn’t matter if it’s a gay person, liberal, Muslim, or in this case a Hollywood actor who struggled with depression and addiction. He doesn’t care about anyone who isn’t a bigoted asshole like himself.

95 TedStriker  Aug 12, 2014 2:14:05pm

re: #83 Shiplord Kirel

Buzz Aldrin on Robin Williams

Buzz is always such a classy guy.

96 GeneJockey  Aug 12, 2014 2:14:32pm

There are a number of those sanctimonious types who seem to take perverse pleasure in telling those left behind after a suicide that their lost loved one will be going to hell.

I remember on the Bowsite, one of the big guns on the board, one of the nicest guys I’ve known, was diagnosed with late stage cancer, and after saying goodbye to everyone and making his peace with it, chose the time and place of his own passing. On the thread where we were all saying our goodbyes to him, and swapping our best stories of his exploits, someone decided this was the time to tell everyone he’d damned himself eternally.

Some folks just have to be dicks.

97 Frenchy  Aug 12, 2014 2:19:33pm

The level of hatred from the political right has reached such a point that they can no longer restrain themselves from spewing it even when someone whose politics they dislike dies. If empathy is too much to expect, can they not even muster enough human decency to just be quiet for a moment?

98 DodgerFan1988  Aug 12, 2014 2:26:45pm

The Right Wing already attacking and smearing Michael Brown just like they did with Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, Jonathan Farrell, and Renisha McBride. mrconservative.com

99 Petero1818  Aug 12, 2014 4:29:38pm

So if I understand this correctly, either this witness is the key eye witness or an accomplice of the deceased who ran away. Either way, one would expect that he would be apprehended and or interviewed immediately. This makes absolutely no sense and “does not smell right” is perhaps the understatement of the year. We are further asked to believe that this kid who does not appear to have any criminal record let alone one showing a history of violence actually attempts to push a cop back in his car and then reach in to attack him and attempt to take his weapon for no apparent reason. The FBI needs to get in there ASAP and any chief of police that can with a straight face get on TV and tell a story like that should be relieved of his post. This is pure nonsense.


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