In Defense of Birthright Citizenship

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
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There’s been a lot of discussion around here the last day or two about birthright citizenship in the US as well as immigration. It has been mostly driven by the Republican candidates for president, led mostly by Donald Trump, suggesting a “re-examination” of birthright citizenship. The truth is, there isn’t anything to examine - the text of the constitution is straight forward, the policies have been in place for over a century, and it works. In fact, if we’re going to be talking about immigration reform (and that’s what part of this stems from), we should be talking about making immigration easier, not harder.

(A quick aside about me: I’ve been reading LGF for years, but only recently registered and this is my first page. I have a degree in political science, I have a law degree, and I have had more than a passing interest in law and politics for longer than I care to admit - so I’m not just some random guy yelling at clouds… I’m some random guy who knows what he’s yelling about to those clouds.)

So, let’s start with the constitution and history (you can’t know where you’re going without knowing where you are, and you can’t know where you are without knowing where you’ve been). Naturalization laws were left to Congress in Article I, Section 8. And in 1790, Congress passed the first law regarding citizenship:

That any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof, on application to any common law court of record, in any one of the states wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such court, that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law, to ‘support the constitution of the United States, which oath or affirmation such court shall administer

The law also provided that any child under 21 years of age would also be automatically naturalized. It provided that any child born to an American citizen “that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of
the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens” - with the caveat that the father had to have been a resident of the United States.

During the Adams Administration, there was growing hostility to immigrants - which lead to the Alien and Seditions Acts, as well as increasing the residency requirements for citizenship to 14 years. By 1802, during Jefferson’s presidency, the residency requirement was reduced to 5 years. By 1824, the residency requirement went back to 2 years.

Of course, the first “four score and seven years” of American history had the complicating factor of slavery. A slave was property and thus couldn’t be a citizen. But what about a freed slave? Or a freeborn African American? In 1856, the Supreme Court issued one of the most notorious decisions in its history - the Dred Scot case - where they held:

A free negro of the African race, whose ancestors were brought to this country and sold as slaves, is not a “citizen” within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States.

When the Constitution was adopted, they were not regarded in any of the States as members of the community which constituted the State, and were not numbered among its “people or citizens.” Consequently, the special rights and immunities guarantied to citizens do not apply to them. And not being “citizens” within the meaning of the Constitution, they are not entitled to sue in that character in a court of the United States, and the Circuit Court has not jurisdiction in such a suit.

Following the Civil War, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. This was the first time that Congress codified birthright citizenship:

That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States ; and such citizens, of every race and color, without regard to any previous condition of slavery or involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall have the same right, in every State and Territory in the United States, to make their rights and enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, and give evidence, to inherit, and obligations purchase, lease, sell, hold, and convey real and personal property, and to full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of person and property, as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall be subject to like punishment, pains, and penalties, and to none other, any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, to the contrary notwithstanding .

Birthright citizenship was also included in the text of the Fourteenth Amendment. Which states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The last point I’ll mention is the US v Wong Kim Ark case. Mr. Wong was born in San Francisco, his parents were subjects of the Chinese Empire, but residing in San Francisco. Mr. Wong traveled to and from China multiple times, and then on his third return visit, was denied entry under the Chinese Exclusion Act (a law that forbid immigration from China, a reminder that race and fear of outsiders isn’t something new in our politics). The Supreme Court held that Mr. Wong was a natural born citizen and could not be prevented from returning to the United States:

A child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution,

“All person born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

In the last few years, there’s been some debate regarding this ruling and the 14th Amendment within the legal world, specifically what constitutes being “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States. For an example of the debate, here’s a transcript from a law review symposium at Florida International University School of Law from 2011. John Eastman, who argues for a limited reading of “subject to the jurisdiction”, was my constitutional law professor at Chapman. He’s someone that I like and occasionally agree with, but my libertarianism and his conservativism have often been at odds. Eastman’s position is basically that illegal aliens are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States and thus neither are their children.

The inherent problem with this line of thinking is that it is based on the idea of one’s allegiance at birth and you can’t really proscribe an allegiance to a newborn. It is, for lack of a better term, a pre-Industrial view of the world - something that I think runs through much of Eastman’s legal views (he also supports a return to the Lochner era which would severely limit the power of the federal (and state) governments under the commerce clause).

Rather, the more logical view is that allegiance is something that develops over time and based on experience. You are not born a Lakers fan, or a Yankees fan, or (may the gods save you) a Cowboys fan. You develop those allegiances over time and through experience. It is the same for one’s allegiance to a country. If you want people to have an allegiance to the US, there needs to be a reason for them to develop it. Telling them, from birth, that they are not citizens, that they are not American, that they are different, is the surest way to prevent any such allegiance.

Some will argue that we should do away with birthright citizenship because so many other first world nations have. Many who argue that will also preach American exceptionalism and completely miss the irony of doing so. They will also ignore that birthright citizenship hasn’t been completely eliminated in many of those countries, only modified based on the residency of parents (assuming neither parent is a citizen). They also tend to ignore the fact that in Europe, the continent is becoming more integrated - for example, since 1992, EU citizenship allows peoples of Europe free movement across member nations as well as the right to settlement and employment, clouding the meaning of citizenship.

Those who argue for ending birthright citizenship should absolutely have the burden of proving why it should be changed. Especially in light of the history outlined above - while it has been an evolution, particularly with respect to race, citizenship laws in the US have historically become more inclusive, not less (much like all of our civil rights laws).

The truth is, though, that birthright citizenship works and there is no reason to change it. In fact, the alternatives would mean more bureaucracy and costs - not just for government, but for individuals. As it stands today, if you’re born in the United States, you’re a citizen (except for children of diplomats). Your birth certificate proves your citizenship. But what if birthright citizenship is taken away?

If those opposed to birthright citizenship have their way, that means parents of a newborn, in order to establish citizenship for that child, would have to prove their own (or prove their residency, if there was a residency requirement). The easiest way to do that would be with a passport - but not everyone has a valid passport - a drivers’ license and/or Social Security Card wouldn’t necessarily be enough. But that’s not all…

The children of refugees and asylum seekers could become “stateless.” This is problematic for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, it would be a violation of the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which guarantees all persons the right to citizenship in a nation (we are signatories to the Declaration and were proponents of its adoption). Beyond that, these stateless individuals would exist in a legal netherworld. They would not be able to travel. They may not be able to get jobs.

It is said that approximately half of the 11 million illegal immigrants in the US today came here legally and overstayed their visas (which is a reminder that the border wall/fence is mostly a distraction, but that’s another post for another day). So, what happens to a child born in the US to parents who overstayed a visa? What if they overstayed because the mother wasn’t medically cleared to travel? What if it their visas weren’t renewed due to a clerical error?

How do we address the citizenship of children of permanent resident aliens?

Even if we use the boogeyman of the person who sneaked across the border and had a child born in the US… the logic fails. In effect, you will be holding the newborn child responsible for the alleged crimes of his/her parents. And again, you create a situation where a person grows up in this country who has no reason to have any allegiance to it. Denying birthright citizenship to these children doesn’t make America better, it sows resentment - the parents will resent the fact that “we” have decided that their children do not deserve the better life that our children do; the children, growing up in the United States, will eventually come to resent the same fact when they can’t go to college or get a job because they are not “legally” in the only country they’ve ever known.

Birthright citizenship doesn’t just help promote the allegiance of the children of immigrants - it promotes the allegiance of immigrants (legal or not). Immigrants come to America seeking a better life, for themselves and their children - this is part of the American mythos. By guaranteeing the children of immigrants American citizenship, we ensure that the parents will want to become a part of our community, that they will not want it to fail.

Eliminating birthright citizenship doesn’t make America better. In fact, it weakens our society. It would promote xenophobia and racism by allowing a certain segment of the population to hold everyone that doesn’t look (or sound) a certain way as suspect. It would create a costly new bureaucracy that would put the onus on ordinary citizens to prove something that we all take for granted. And, it would not solve any real problems.

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154 comments
1
#FergusonFireside  Aug 18, 2015 • 9:02:13pm

Very very good page. TY & welcome.

2
CuriousLurker  Aug 18, 2015 • 10:09:47pm

This is a most excellent page—definitely front page material. I’m recommending it now.

3
Iwouldprefernotto  Aug 19, 2015 • 6:25:14am

Great Post. What do we get by taking away the 14th Amendment? How much time and energy are we willing to spend on court costs?

4
Great White Snark  Aug 19, 2015 • 9:27:13am

re: #2 CuriousLurker

This is a most excellent page—definitely front page material. I’m recommending it now.

Ditto Love to see this promoted.

5
lawhawk  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:33:17am

Well done!

6
goddamnedfrank  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:35:42am

Try to imagine the Supreme Court reversing the recent gay marriage rulings, either invalidating the marriages of countless citizens or making such future marriages legally impossible.

If that isn’t going to happen then how the fuck do conservatives think stripping people of citizenship will actually work?

7
Dr Lizardo  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:35:53am

Excellent post. Well done.

8
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:36:35am

re: #6 goddamnedfrank

Try to imagine the Supreme Court reversing the recent gay marriage rulings, either invalidating the marriages of countless citizens or making such future marriages legally impossible.

If that isn’t going to happen then how the fuck do conservatives think stripping people of citizenship will actually work?

They don’t want to strip EVERYONE’s birthright citizenship, just the non-white people.

9
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:37:35am

SCOTUS very clearly defends the concept of birthright citizenship in United States v. Wong Kim Ark:

The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States. Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin’s Case, 7 Coke, 6a, ‘strong enough to make a natural subject, for, if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject’; and his child, as said by Mr. Binney in his essay before quoted, ‘If born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.’

10
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:39:21am

This is a terrific piece. Thank you so much for writing it. It means a lot on a personal level too since as I’ve stated here before, I have a niece that is a citizen because of birth right citizenship.

11
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:41:00am

re: #6 goddamnedfrank

Try to imagine the Supreme Court reversing the recent gay marriage rulings, either invalidating the marriages of countless citizens or making such future marriages legally impossible.

If that isn’t going to happen then how the fuck do conservatives think stripping people of citizenship will actually work?

It’s getting, okay it’s already at that point where conservatives are more reactionary than conservative. In fact, I’d argue that maintaining birthright citizenship is in the textbook sense of the word the more conservative move since we’re accepting years of legal precedent and what has worked. So I’d argue to the conservatives who claim this doesn’t work- why do you want to have something that we’ve had as a nation longer than we haven’t.

12
Khal Wimpo  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:41:28am

re: #8 The Vicious Babushka

They don’t want to strip EVERYONE’s birthright citizenship, just the non-white people.

In their heads, they do. Thing is, as has been expressed elsewhere, Trump’s policies (and those of most of the RWNJs) only make sense if you are incapable of thinking more than 5 seconds into the future.

As in: OK, what shade of white exactly shall be the line of demarcation for peremptory challenges to citizenship? What if a white person has a tan? What if the white person’s name does ends in a vowel, but their family has been in the U.S. since the 1700s?

Who gets to adjudicate this? What happens to people while their cases are being heard? Where do we keep them (in open-air football stadiums? Nothing sinister there…)

13
makeitstop  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:43:24am

re: #12 Khal Wimpo

Who gets to adjudicate this? What happens to people while their cases are being heard? Where do we keep them (in open-air football stadiums? Nothing sinister there…)

FEMA camps.
/

14
Jenner7  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:44:32am

Nice job and welcome!

15
qubit2020  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:47:44am

Great points made in this essay.
As alluded to, the children of undocumented immigrants would form a permanent underclass. Despite being raised in the culture and language of the US, they would be barred from reaping the benefits of living in this society. If radicalization is a problem now…Imagine how serious it would be if the children of these immigrants are effectively told you are not wanted by the only government/society they have known.

16
Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:47:46am

re: #13 makeitstop

FEMA camps.
/

That’s Democrat talk. These are good Republican Freedom Camps.

17
A Mom Anon  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:50:06am

If I remember my Civics 101 correctly, doesn’t there have to be a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the State legislatures voting in favor of repealing an amendment before it can, you know, actually happen?

What pisses me off, more than just the obvious bullshit, racism and absolute stupidity of this ridiculous concept, is that most of the people crowing the loudest had classes in school that actually taught us how government works. Especially those of us over 55. Younger people probably not so much, but JHC what in the FUCK is wrong with our country that we’ve become this reactionary and goddamned stupid?

18
Shiplord Kirel  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:51:47am

RWNJ leaders like Carson, Trump, and Jindal know that they cannot “repeal” birthright citizenship, just as they know they cannot take health insurance away from millions who already have it by repealing Obamacare.
Their purpose is to give their depraved base another way to keep its hate and rage going, since that is the source of Republican power and right-wing media profits these days.
The problem is that the leaders do not have full control of this monster they have created. They don’t seem to realize how dangerous it is to constantly stoke the fires of hatred and resentment, oblivious to the possibility of a general conflagration.

19
sagehen  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:52:08am

re: #17 A Mom Anon

If I remember my Civics 101 correctly, doesn’t there have to be a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the State legislatures voting in favor of repealing an amendment before it can, you know, actually happen?

Super-majority in both house and senate, then ratified by 3/4 of the states.

20
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:52:15am

re: #15 qubit2020

Great points made in this essay.
As alluded to, the children of undocumented immigrants would form a permanent underclass. Despite being raised in the culture and language of the US, they would be barred from reaping the benefits of living in this society. If radicalization is a problem now…Imagine how serious it would be if the children of these immigrants are effectively told you are not wanted by the only government/society they have known.

I’ve actually been arguing something like this. We’ve seen what has happened to the children of French Algerian immigrants. This is actually something we should be proud of honestly in that we do a great job of assimilating immigrants into our country and culture.

21
Dr Lizardo  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:53:50am

re: #17 A Mom Anon

If I remember my Civics 101 correctly, doesn’t there have to be a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the State legislatures voting in favor of repealing an amendment before it can, you know, actually happen?

What pisses me off, more than just the obvious bullshit, racism and absolute stupidity of this ridiculous concept, is that most of the people crowing the loudest had classes in school that actually taught us how government works. Especially those of us over 55. Younger people probably not so much, but JHC what in the FUCK is wrong with our country that we’ve become this reactionary and goddamned stupid?

Fear. Pure and simple.

22
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:54:24am

re: #17 A Mom Anon

If I remember my Civics 101 correctly, doesn’t there have to be a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the State legislatures voting in favor of repealing an amendment before it can, you know, actually happen?

What pisses me off, more than just the obvious bullshit, racism and absolute stupidity of this ridiculous concept, is that most of the people crowing the loudest had classes in school that actually taught us how government works. Especially those of us over 55. Younger people probably not so much, but JHC what in the FUCK is wrong with our country that we’ve become this reactionary and goddamned stupid?

About 1/3 of this country has always been this reactionary and stupid. For a while, they were shamed into being relatively quiet about it. The internet allowed them to find each other, and create a feed-forward activation loop, so that the crazier the shit they said, the more encouragement they’d get to say EVEN CRAZIER shit. Now, you have a shameless con man who’s basically taking #TCOT and other accumulations of reactionary and goddamned stupid people as his playbook.

23
Kragar  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:55:44am

“We need to do everything we can to win elections!”
“Have better ideas and be more appealing to voters?”
“Shut up Mike. Anyone else?”
“Gerrymandering?”
“Tapped out on that.”
“Voter ID laws?”
“Better!”
“Purging the voter rolls and impose draconian voting restrictions?”
“Now you guys are getting it!”
“Reduce the number of voters by stripping citizenship from those groups most likely to vote against us?”
“… Gentlemen, we have our solution.”

24
Mattand  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:55:50am

re: #17 A Mom Anon

If I remember my Civics 101 correctly, doesn’t there have to be a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the State legislatures voting in favor of repealing an amendment before it can, you know, actually happen?

Yup.

What pisses me off, more than just the obvious bullshit, racism and absolute stupidity of this ridiculous concept, is that most of the people crowing the loudest had classes in school that actually taught us how government works. Especially those of us over 55. Younger people probably not so much, but JHC what in the FUCK is wrong with our country that we’ve become this reactionary and goddamned stupid?

You should have seen some of the comments on a nj.com article about Trump’s plan. Wave after wave of Tea Baggers complaining about the “law” that provides for birthright citizenship

Wave after wave of “salt of the earth” types insisting that those people are destroying our country, and that they and their kids had to go.

It’s really scary. It’s like watching children argue. Really ignorant, barely educated, questionably literate children.

25
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:56:53am

re: #23 Kragar

“We need to do everything we can to win elections!”
“Have better ideas and be more appealing to voters?”
“Shut up Mike. Anyone else?”
“Gerrymandering?”
“Tapped out on that.”
“Voter ID laws?”
“Better!”
“Purging the voter rolls and impose draconian voting restrictions?”
“Now you guys are getting it!”
“Reduce the number of voters by stripping citizenship from those groups most likely to vote against us?”
“… Gentlemen, we have our solution.”

Possibly even the final one.

26
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:56:59am

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

I said it downstairs and I’ll say it again — it’s a damn shame that Marco Rubio is a crazy, raving wingnut who’s dead flat wrong about everything. He’s the only one in the clown car who is pointing out that none of Trump’s immigration plan would get through Congress and that it’s expensive and unworkable besides. He also - naturally, given his own background - opposes ending birthright citizenship.

The GOP desperately needs someone out there to talk them back from the nativist ledge, but they’re not going to listen to Rubio.

27
Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2015 • 10:59:54am

re: #23 Kragar

“We need to do everything we can to win elections!”
“Have better ideas and be more appealing to voters?”
“Shut up Mike. Anyone else?”
“Gerrymandering?”
“Tapped out on that.”
“Voter ID laws?”
“Better!”
“Purging the voter rolls and impose draconian voting restrictions?”
“Now you guys are getting it!”
“Reduce the number of voters by stripping citizenship from those groups most likely to vote against us?”
“… Gentlemen, we have our solution.”

“Start criminalizing the thugs in kindergarten to make sure they have felony sheets by 18”

28
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:00:31am

OT - one of the clickbait things I saw on some page this morning:

The Hidden Signs You’re Not Drinking Enough!

I thought:

1) Waking up without a hangover

2) No vomit stains down the front of your T-shirt.

3) You know exactly how your car managed to get home without a scratch.

4) You don’t have to ask the name of the person you wake up with.

5) Your hands don’t shake.

29
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:00:37am

re: #26 Lidane

I said it downstairs and I’ll say it again — it’s a damn shame that Marco Rubio is a crazy, raving wingnut who’s dead flat wrong about everything. He’s the only one in the clown car who is pointing out that none of Trump’s immigration plan would get through Congress and that it’s expensive unworkable besides. He also - naturally, given his own background - opposes ending birthright citizenship.

The GOP desperately needs someone out there to talk them back from the nativist ledge, but they’re not going to listen to Rubio.

I’ll give Rubio some “small” credit. Yeah given his own background, he does oppose ending it but he showed he at least has something of a conscience since Jindal whose mother was pregnant with him no less when the Jindals came here has come out in support of Trump’s crap but you’re right. They’re not going to listen to Rubio.

30
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:00:46am

This on top of the Daily Beast FP:

“DOLEZAL II? Black Lives Matter’s Shaun King Is Not Biracial”

thedailybeast.com

31
TedStriker  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:01:18am

re: #17 A Mom Anon

If I remember my Civics 101 correctly, doesn’t there have to be a 2/3 majority in both the House and Senate AND 3/4 of the State legislatures voting in favor of repealing an amendment before it can, you know, actually happen?

What pisses me off, more than just the obvious bullshit, racism and absolute stupidity of this ridiculous concept, is that most of the people crowing the loudest had classes in school that actually taught us how government works. Especially those of us over 55. Younger people probably not so much, but JHC what in the FUCK is wrong with our country that we’ve become this reactionary and goddamned stupid?

re: #19 sagehen

Super-majority in both house and senate, then ratified by 3/4 of the states.

The scary thing is that the Republicans already control the legislatures of 31 out of 50 states, within spitting distance of meeting the 3/4 rule for state legislatures amending the US Constitution (38 of 50). That being that close, along with the GOP controlling both the Senate and the House for at least the next year or so, puts this squarely within the realm of possibility, especially if the GOP gains even more state legislatures and/or is able to gain support from split or nominally Democratic legislatures.

This is why who we vote for, even on the local and state levels, is deathly important.

32
BeachDem  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:01:51am

re: #21 Dr Lizardo

Fear. Pure and simple.

I think calling it fear gives it some sort of validation. I think it’s just plain old meanness.

33
lawhawk  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:06:00am

Whitesplainin’, courtesy of Huckabee:

Mind you, you’ve got right wingers now attempting to divine the percentage of racial background that qualifies as authentic black.

Screw them and their racism. They want to deprive people of their rights under the law. That’s why BLM matters. That’s why they want to attack those who are prominent and involved in BLM, because it somehow threatens the status quo, even though it doesn’t affect any of their rights personally (except where these racists see it as their right to deprive others of their rights).

34
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:06:20am

The Ashley Madison hackers have started dumping names on twitter.

35
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:06:46am

re: #31 TedStriker

The scary thing is that the Republicans already control the legislatures of 31 out of 50 states, within spitting distance of meeting the 3/4 rule for state legislatures amending the US Constitution (38 of 50). That being that close, along with the GOP controlling both the Senate and the House for at least the next year or so, puts this squarely within the realm of possibility, especially if the GOP gains even more state legislatures and/or is able to gain support from split or nominally Democratic legislatures.

This is why who we vote for, even on the local and state levels, is deathly important.

I think they’ve plateaued as far as legislatures are concerned but that doesn’t mean voting in local elections isn’t any less important.

36
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:08:14am

re: #33 lawhawk

Whitesplainin’, courtesy of Huckabee:

[Embedded content]

Mind you, you’ve got right wingers now attempting to divine the percentage of racial background that qualifies as authentic black.

Screw them and their racism. They want to deprive people of their rights under the law. That’s why BLM matters. That’s why they want to attack those who are prominent and involved in BLM, because it somehow threatens the status quo, even though it doesn’t affect any of their rights personally (except where these racists see it as their right to deprive others of their rights).

I’ve said it a gazillion times here now, I am tired of white people using MLK’s memory to put down black people. Okay so you claim to respect MLK and his legacy, well how about not using a dead man who can’t object to what you’re doing to put down his own people.

37
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:08:34am

re: #33 lawhawk

Mike Huckabee: MLK would be ‘appalled’ by Black Lives Matter movement

Does he mean the MLK that was gunned down in a Southern town where he was joining with sanitation workers in fighting for better pay and treatment?

Does he mean that MLK? The same MLK who led protests in Birmingham, AL, which included, and prominently used children as protesters?

//

38
aagcobb  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:10:03am

re: #35 HappyWarrior

I think they’ve plateaued as far as legislatures are concerned but that doesn’t mean voting in local elections isn’t any less important.

Not quite. As Conservative as Kentucky is, the Democrats still control the House of Representatives here, though I don’t know for how much longer.

39
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:10:10am

re: #37 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Does he mean the MLK that was gunned down in a Southern town where he was joining with sanitation workers in fighting for better pay and treatment?

Does he mean that MLK? The same MLK who led protests in Birmingham, AL, which included, and prominently used children as protesters?

//

The same MLK that 1960’s conservatives despised and that 2010’s conservatives pretend to admire.

40
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:10:57am

re: #38 aagcobb

Not quite. As Conservative as Kentucky is, the Democrats still control the House of Representatives here, though I don’t know for how much longer.

Oh true point, I just mean percentage wise. I’d be shocked if we ever see a world where one party controls that high amount of the state legislatures but as I said we still needto vote in local elections.

41
A Mom Anon  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:11:01am

re: #31 TedStriker

yep. Here’s another thing though. I haven’t ever had a Democrat or even sane Republican to vote for where I live. On a federal or state level. They run unopposed every stinking election, or nearly every time. I’ve lived in the same part of Georgia for 20 years, I’ve had one Democrat oppose the federal level rep. Twice on the state level there have been Democratic challengers and they both lost by enormous margins. Our party apparatus here is pathetic too, once you get out of Atlanta, Athens and maybe Macon, there is next to nothing in place for Democrats. What do you do then?

Now they’re talking about lowering the state income tax to less than 4 percent and raising the sales taxes which are already at 6-8 percent in most places. To make things more “business friendly”. Who will that hurt? Middle class and poor people. We’re short teachers, school bus routes are being cut (which is creating traffic nightmares in the mornings) and a whole host of other issues. The GOP is in charge here, they never let us forget it either. If they win this one, the state is going to fall farther behind. It’s got to the point that if you speak out here you run the risk of having a gun pointed at you.

42
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:11:59am

re: #36 HappyWarrior

It’s an argument from authority anyway, which is a fallacy, whether used for good aims or bad. MLK, JFK, Lincoln or Mother Theresa doing or not doing things does not make these things good (or bad). Actions should be defended or criticized on their own merit.

43
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:12:33am

re: #41 A Mom Anon

yep. Here’s another thing though. I haven’t ever had a Democrat or even sane Republican to vote for where I live. On a federal or state level. They run unopposed every stinking election, or nearly every time. I’ve lived in the same part of Georgia for 20 years, I’ve had one Democrat oppose the federal level rep. Twice on the state level there have been Democratic challengers and they both lost by enormous margins. Our party apparatus here is pathetic too, once you get out of Atlanta, Athens and maybe Macon, there is next to nothing in place for Democrats. What do you do then?

Now they’re talking about lowering the state income tax to less than 4 percent and raising the sales taxes which are already at 6-8 percent in most places. To make things more “business friendly”. Who will that hurt? Middle class and poor people. We’re short teachers, school bus routes are being cut (which is creating traffic nightmares in the mornings) and a whole host of other issues. The GOP is in charge here, they never let us forget it either. If they win this one, the state is going to fall farther behind. It’s got to the point that if you speak out here you run the risk of having a gun pointed at you.

What I find really annoying and I hate to sound come off condescending since I come from a fairly well off area but I am tired of poor white voters voting against their own interests by enabling these guys.

44
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:12:50am

re: #42 Nyet

It’s an argument to authority anyway, which is a fallacy, whether used for good aims or bad. MLK, JFK, Lincoln or Mother Theresa doing or not doing things does not make these things good (or bad). Actions should be defended on their own merit.

Right.

45
lawhawk  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:12:55am

re: #37 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

The same MLK who walked hand in hand, shoulder to shoulder, with people of all faiths and creeds, seeking a better future for all Americans by demanding equal rights and justice under the law.

46
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:13:05am

re: #38 aagcobb

Not quite. As Conservative as Kentucky is, the Democrats still control the House of Representatives here, though I don’t know for how much longer.

And, for now, we have a Dem governor.
I don’t even want to think about what happens if Bevin wins the election.

47
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:13:25am

“What would Jesus do” is a joke.

48
Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:13:46am

re: #41 A Mom Anon

Alabama statewide elective offices held by Democrats— 0

49
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:13:56am

re: #39 HappyWarrior

The same MLK that 1960’s conservatives despised and that 2010’s conservatives pretend to admire.

The imaginary MLK who was a Republican and anti-abortion.

50
BeachDem  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:15:03am

re: #33 lawhawk

Whitesplainin’, courtesy of Huckabee:

[Embedded content]

In addition to avoiding whitesplainin’, Huckabee (and the rest of his rightwing cohorts) should forever avoid trying to make analogies, because he/they totally suck at it.

Rejecting the use of the words “West Bank”, Huckabee said it should be called “Judea and Samaria”, adding: “I don’t see it as occupied, that makes it appear as if someone is illegally taking land. I don’t see it that way.”

He went on: “In America, we have about a 400-year relationship to Manhattan. It would be as if I came and said we need to end our occupation of Manhattan. I’m pretty sure most Americans would find that laughable.”

51
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:15:04am

re: #46 Backwoods_Sleuth

And, for now, we have a Dem governor.
I don’t even want to think about what happens if Bevin wins the election.

Now you guys know how I felt about Cuccinneli. Bevin seems cut form the same theocratic brand.

52
Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:15:06am

Jimmy Carter to discuss cancer diagnosis on Thursday

Another opportunity for pro-life conservatives to cheer on his disease status.

53
Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:15:10am

By the way - I fixed the inconsistencies in the private comment “user count” feature, when you address a private comment to several users.

54
Kragar  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:15:51am

re: #47 Nyet

55
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:16:11am

re: #50 BeachDem

By Huck’s logic Putin did everything right in the Crimea.

56
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:16:14am

re: #50 BeachDem

In addition to avoiding whitesplainin’, Huckabee (and the rest of his rightwing cohorts) should forever avoid trying to make analogies, because he/they totally suck at it.

Rejecting the use of the words “West Bank”, Huckabee said it should be called “Judea and Samaria”, adding: “I don’t see it as occupied, that makes it appear as if someone is illegally taking land. I don’t see it that way.”

He went on: “In America, we have about a 400-year relationship to Manhattan. It would be as if I came and said we need to end our occupation of Manhattan. I’m pretty sure most Americans would find that laughable.”

He really is such a bigoted asshole when it comes to the Palestinians and Israelis. He’s nothing but a bigoted prick who faps to rapture fan fic porn.

57
aagcobb  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:17:09am

An important point to make, I think, is that immigration is what made America the greatest nation in the world, and immigrants are a huge benefit to the United States. Economists uniformly agree that immigration boosts the economy. Even an economist opposed to liberal immigration laws admitted that immigrants increase the GDP by $1.6 Trillion, benefitting both themselves and everyone else. If we severely restrict immigration, we can look forward to becoming Japan, a stagnant nation slowly dying of old age.

58
Kragar  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:18:00am

Iowa radio host and influential conservative kingmaker Jan Mickelson unveiled an immigration plan that would make undocumented immigrants who don’t leave the country after an allotted time “property of the state,” asking, “What’s wrong with slavery?” when a caller criticized his plan.

On the August 17 edition of his radio show, Mickelson announced that he had a plan to drive undocumented immigrants out of Iowa that involved making those who don’t leave “property of the state” who are forced into “compelled labor,” like building a wall on the US-Mexican border.

59
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:18:15am

re: #57 aagcobb

An important point to make, I think, is that immigration is what made America the greatest nation in the world, and immigrants are a huge benefit to the United States. Economists uniformly agree that immigration boosts the economy. Even an economist opposed to liberal immigration laws admitted that immigrants increase the GDP by $1.6 Trillion, benefitting both themselves and everyone else. If we severely restrict immigration, we can look forward to becoming Japan, a stagnant nation slowly dying of old age.

Great point.

60
aagcobb  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:18:18am

re: #46 Backwoods_Sleuth

And, for now, we have a Dem governor.
I don’t even want to think about what happens if Bevin wins the election.

That would be a nightmare.

61
Timothy Watson  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:18:49am

re: #50 BeachDem

In addition to avoiding whitesplainin’, Huckabee (and the rest of his rightwing cohorts) should forever avoid trying to make analogies, because he/they totally suck at it.

Rejecting the use of the words “West Bank”, Huckabee said it should be called “Judea and Samaria”, adding: “I don’t see it as occupied, that makes it appear as if someone is illegally taking land. I don’t see it that way.”

He went on: “In America, we have about a 400-year relationship to Manhattan. It would be as if I came and said we need to end our occupation of Manhattan. I’m pretty sure most Americans would find that laughable.”

But the Palestinians should have given up their land to create Israel when there hadn’t been an independent Jewish state there for 2,000 years?

62
Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:19:08am
63
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:19:25am

re: #58 Kragar

[Embedded content]

But let me guess, Jan’s just not a politically correct guy. I think I’ve heard of this guy. I think he said that the Republican candidates have said some uh very candid things to him when the mike wasn’t on.

64
BeachDem  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:19:33am

re: #41 A Mom Anon

yep. Here’s another thing though. I haven’t ever had a Democrat or even sane Republican to vote for where I live. On a federal or state level. They run unopposed every stinking election, or nearly every time.

Here, we actually field good Dem candidates for statewide and federal offices and they lose every fucking time to horrible Republicans. The offices that usually have no Dem opposition are the local and county ones.

I’m not sure which is worse—your dilemma or mine (do you prefer arsenic or strychnine?)

65
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:20:02am

re: #62 Dr. Matt

Palin is vying for the VP slot with Trump:

Palin Calls Trump’s Extremist Immigration Plan A ‘Shot In The Arm To Constitutionalists’

Why doesn’t she just endorse him already. Oh wait that would mean actually having to be held accountable.

66
Kragar  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:20:22am

re: #62 Dr. Matt

Can black tar heroin be considered a shot in the arm?

67
Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:20:29am

re: #50 BeachDem

In addition to avoiding whitesplainin’, Huckabee (and the rest of his rightwing cohorts) should forever avoid trying to make analogies, because he/they totally suck at it.

He went on: “In America, we have about a 400-year relationship to Manhattan. It would be as if I came and said we need to end our occupation of Manhattan. I’m pretty sure most Americans would find that laughable.”

Most, but not all.

68
BeachDem  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:20:45am

re: #48 Decatur Deb

Alabama statewide elective offices held by Democrats— 0

South Caroline, ditto.

69
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:21:51am

re: #61 Timothy Watson

But the Palestinians should have given up their land to create Israel when there hadn’t been an independent Jewish state there for 2,000 years?

Well there hadn’t been an independent Palestinian state either.

70
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:21:58am
CALLER: Well I think everybody would believe it sounds like slavery?

MICKELSON: Well, what’s wrong with slavery?

71
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:22:47am

re: #70 Nyet

Dumb Rush wannabee, when called out, will claim it’s “satire”

72
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:23:18am

re: #71 The Vicious Babushka

Dumb Rush wannabee, when called out, will claim it’s “satire”

Of course.

73
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:23:35am

re: #71 The Vicious Babushka

MICKELSON: All right, thank you very much I appreciate it.

CALLER: You bet. You bet.

MICKELSON: You think I’m just pulling your leg. I am not.

74
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:24:18am

re: #73 Nyet

Wait until the backlash. Rush says racist shit all the time serious as hell and then hides behind being a “satirist.”

75
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:24:23am

re: #73 Nyet

MICKELSON: You think I’m just pulling your leg. I am not.

MOAR CALLERS!!!! MOAR!!!!!

76
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:25:10am

ASSHOLE==>
Most white people who tell black people how to live their lives don’t “pretend to be black”

77
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:25:29am

re: #74 HappyWarrior

re: #75 The Vicious Babushka

Satire no, but “just a thought experiment” perhaps.

78
Amory Blaine  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:25:44am

Jailing employers is still conspicuously absent from any of the RWNJ platforms.

79
Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:25:52am

re: #70 Nyet

CALLER: Well you know, you’re singing my song; we’re all slaves today the way the government is growing -

Yeah, I’m tired of waking up with the pain of last night’s whipping for not picking enough gummit cotton.

//

80
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:27:19am
81
Bubblehead II  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:29:04am

I’m starting to like Bernie. Don’t think he will get the nomination but the debates should be great.

Bernie Takes on the Media

82
De Kolta Chair  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:30:41am

KGxvi, thanks for writing this informative and downright fascinating article.

83
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:31:48am

re: #77 Nyet

Satire no, but “just a thought experiment” perhaps.

Right, in any case, I expect him to make an excuse.

84
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:32:12am

re: #80 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Stop fucking calling them anchor babies. Sorry I just hate the term.

85
Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:32:38am

re: #82 De Kolta Chair

KGxvi, thanks for writing this informative and downright fascinating article.

Embedded Image

A Hatchling gets promoted…what’s this world coming to?? //

86
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:33:30am

re: #81 Bubblehead II

That’s a good, respectful response.

87
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:33:55am

re: #79 Dr. Matt

Yeah, I’m tired of waking up with the pain of last night’s whipping for not picking enough gummit cotton.

//

These people cry about how the government enslaves them yet they oppose unionization or any form of workers working together. Things that make you go hmmmm maybe you ain’t a slave suckah.

88
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:35:24am

re: #84 HappyWarrior

Stop fucking calling them anchor babies. Sorry I just hate the term.

I can’t stand the term either, but it’s stuck in people’s minds now.

89
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:36:34am

re: #88 Lidane

I can’t stand the term either, but it’s stuck in people’s minds now.

Yeah I just find it unbelievably tacky.

90
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:39:42am

re: #79 Dr. Matt

CALLER: Well you know, you’re singing my song; we’re all slaves today the way the government is growing -

But we need to build THE WALL and enforce all the immigration rules and deport everyone and we need to spend more for Defense but other than that, yes, government is growing too much and it’s like slavery.
//

91
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:40:43am

re: #76 The Vicious Babushka

So we have another white person pretending to black in order to tell black people how to live their lives? Good grief.
— Erick Erickson

Sure glad Erick son of Erick is on the case about this.

//

92
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:41:58am

re: #62 Dr. Matt

Palin is vying for the VP slot with Trump:

Palin Calls Trump’s Extremist Immigration Plan A ‘Shot In The Arm To Constitutionalists’

93
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:42:20am

re: #58 Kragar

“What’s wrong with slavery?”

Hi I’m just asking questions.

/

94
mr.fusion  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:43:18am

Plaintiff: You see, the 14th Amendment is unconstitutional

Judge: Ok, let me just check my handy pocket constitution here…….ah yup….looks like the 14th Amendment is in there.

95
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:43:49am

re: #94 mr.fusion

[Embedded content]

Plaintiff: You see, the 14th Amendment is unconstitutional

Judge: Ok, let me just check my handy pocket constitution here…….ah yup….looks like the 14th Amendment is in there.

You’re gonna need a deeper hole Donald.

97
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:44:18am

re: #94 mr.fusion

Conservatives Love Trump because he sounds just like they do…dumb and uninformed.

98
aagcobb  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:45:47am

Trump’s immigration plan is so extreme, rightwing rag The Federalist calls it hardcore porn for nativists.

99
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:46:17am

Just got a message from my sister in Florida.
She got a boarding pass for the NASA Mars mission.
She also got one for her late husband, so his name goes to Mars, too.

:)

100
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:46:24am

donald will have his people look into separating out the sacred parts of the constitution from the bad parts hey hey no problem let me tell you you’ll love the constitution when i get finished with it i guarantee you it will be beautiful

101
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:46:38am

re: #70 Nyet

CALLER: Well I think everybody would believe it sounds like slavery?
MICKELSON: Well, what’s wrong with slavery?

Slavery, like racism, and misogyny, has just gotten a bad name from politically correct politicians and feminazis.

/

102
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:47:33am
103
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:48:04am

re: #101 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

Slavery, like racism, and misogyny, has just gotten a bad name from politically correct politicians and feminazis.

/

If it was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me! /

104
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:48:27am

re: #102 Nyet

[Embedded content]

Jerry Springer is a science publisher? Who knew?

105
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:49:24am

retractionwatch.com seems like an interesting blog.

106
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:50:28am

After the GOP gets rid of ALL TEH ILLEAGLES here is their next target==>

107
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:50:32am

The Bible is thoroughly pro-slavery, both parts.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

108
BeachDem  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:51:19am

re: #76 The Vicious Babushka

ASSHOLE==>
So we have another white person pretending to black in order to tell black people how to live their lives? Good grief.
[Embedded content]

And who, of course, figures into the original idiocy?

King was responding to accusations first published by conservative blogger Vicki Pate, who has admittedly “stalked” King and his family. Pate began writing about King after a dust-up with conservative blogger Chuck C. Johnson over the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson.


Pate says she began obsessing over King’s social media because of a “huge lie he told” about Chuck C. Johnson, a rash blogger and founder of GotNews, who was banned from Twitter after threatening civil rights activist DeRay McKesson.

rawstory.com
Wah wah wah.

109
lawhawk  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:51:24am

re: #106 The Vicious Babushka

Awww.. How cute. With the Benghazi button too.

110
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:53:03am

re: #106 The Vicious Babushka

Able bodied Americans who are taking welfare instead of working should NOT be able to vote or give their damn opinions

thank you we will showing up at your house soon to make you prove that you quality please have your documentation ready by the way your tax bill will go up 10% to cover this increased government surveillance activity

111
De Kolta Chair  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:53:21am

re: #92 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Though I’m a staunch Joe Twelve-Pack, I believe Joe Six-Packs should be pitied and not belittled.

112
Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:57:00am

re: #107 Nyet

The Bible is thoroughly pro-slavery, both parts.

For most of human history, slavery was rarely seen as a bad thing. The idea that people should never be slaves is a relatively recent development.

113
HappyWarrior  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:58:48am

re: #112 Charles Johnson

For most of human history, slavery was rarely seen as a bad thing. The idea that people should never be slaves is a relatively recent development.

Exactly.

114
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 11:59:32am

re: #106 The Vicious Babushka

Able bodied Americans who are taking welfare instead of working should NOT be able to vote or give their damn opinions #tcot

That’s a welcome addition to the able-bodied American rule. I’ve long thought the gang over at #TCOT was going a bit soft by only barring such lazies from voting. But the real problem is the lazy poors who have opinions, perhaps say things, or worse, assemble together, which is illegal. Needless to say, though, these rules should not apply to able-bodied Americans who only receive assistance to which they are entitled and who are otherwise good, patriot Americans.

////

115
The Vicious Babushka  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:01:13pm

re: #114 Fourth Football of the Apocalypse

That’s a welcome addition to the able-bodied American rule. I’ve long thought the gang over at #TCOT was going a bit soft by only barring such lazies from voting. But the real problem is the lazy poors who have opinions, perhaps say things, or worse, assemble together, which is illegal. Needless to say, though, these rules should not apply to able-bodied Americans who only receive assistance to which they are entitled and who are otherwise good, patriot Americans.

////

HURR HURR WHEN WE GET RID OF ALL TEH ILLEAGLES THEIR WILL BE PLENTY OF JERBS, NOBODY SHOULD BE ON WELFARES, THEY CAN HAVE ALL TEH JERBS!!!!1!!!!

116
KGxvi  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:01:16pm

Wow, thanks for the promotion. Also, thanks everyone for the kind words.

117
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:01:39pm

re: #106 The Vicious Babushka

Able bodied Americans who are taking welfare instead of working should NOT be able to vote or give their damn opinions #tcot— SLSTCP

Also let me tell you how much I love the Constitution, which I know better than any libtard.

118
Fourth Football of the Apocalypse  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:02:29pm

re: #115 The Vicious Babushka

HURR HURR WHEN WE GET RID OF ALL TEH ILLEAGLES THEIR WILL BE PLENTY OF JERBS, NOBODY SHOULD BE ON WELFARES, THEY CAN HAVE ALL TEH JERBS!!!!1!!!!

But that still leaves the problem of those poors who work in fast food and want money and should be replaced by robots.

///

119
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:02:47pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

For most of human history, slavery was rarely seen as a bad thing. The idea that people should never be slaves is a relatively recent development.

even in the late 19th century there were arguments against eliminating child labor - after all, why restrict the freedom of the child to make a living and support his family?

similarly, i suppose we should reinstate slavery since why restrict the right of a citizen to solve serious financial problems by selling him or herself into servitude and giving the money to their family

i wouldnt be one bit surprised to find people making these arguments

120
b_sharp  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:03:26pm

Doesn’t there have to be more jobs than workers for everybody able to work to actually be working? Doesn’t that mean the ‘job creators’ should stop being lazy and start creating those well paying jobs so everyone can be moved off of welfare?

121
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:04:10pm

re: #50 BeachDem

In addition to avoiding whitesplainin’, Huckabee (and the rest of his rightwing cohorts) should forever avoid trying to make analogies, because he/they totally suck at it.

Rejecting the use of the words “West Bank”, Huckabee said it should be called “Judea and Samaria”, adding: “I don’t see it as occupied, that makes it appear as if someone is illegally taking land. I don’t see it that way.”

He went on: “In America, we have about a 400-year relationship to Manhattan. It would be as if I came and said we need to end our occupation of Manhattan. I’m pretty sure most Americans would find that laughable.”

Okay, so if it’s not occupied territory, and it’s not some other country’s territory, it must be Israel, and if it’s Israel, then the people who live there must be Israeli citizens, which means they should be able to vote.

Do you suppose Huckabee supports that?

122
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:06:11pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

For most of human history, slavery was rarely seen as a bad thing. The idea that people should never be slaves is a relatively recent development.

Which is why I find the idea of holding relics of such a past in sacred respect so problematic.

123
ObserverArt  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:07:35pm

Damn fine work KGxvi!

You do realize this site isn’t relevant though.*

(* A long-standing joke around here. Many of the RWNJs have kept saying LGF is irrelevant for a few years now…over and over again. I guess they keep checking to make sure just to see how irrelevant it is.)

124
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:11:31pm

re: #122 Nyet

Which is why I find the idea of holding relics of such a past in sacred respect so problematic.

The arc of he Moral Universe is long, but it bends toward justice. Now how can we stop that?

125
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:12:14pm

re: #123 ObserverArt

Damn fine work KGxvi!

You do realize this site isn’t relevant though.*

(* A long-standing joke around here. Many of the RWNJs have kept saying LGF is irrelevant for a few years now…over and over again. I guess they keep checking to make sure just to see how irrelevant it is.)

What do you call a large gray animal with four legs and a trunk?

126
allegro  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:13:07pm

re: #125 Blind Frog Belly White

What do you call a large gray animal with four legs and a trunk?

A rhinocerous on a long voyage.

127
Romantic Heretic  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:13:48pm

re: #17 A Mom Anon

I know I’ve posted this article from Cracked many times before but I think it has the best explanation for this sort of behaviour.

128
KGxvi  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:14:31pm

re: #123 ObserverArt

Oh, yeah, I know, completely irrelevant.

I was blogging when I was in law school (04-05 or so), pretty sure LGF was among my many, many reads back then. I remember the craziness of those days across the blogsphere.

129
Bubblehead II  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:14:41pm

re: #125 Blind Frog Belly White

What do you call a large gray animal with four legs and a trunk?

An aardvark?/

130
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:14:52pm

re: #75 The Vicious Babushka

MOAR CALLERS!!!! MOAR!!!!!

“I am for forced bussing of Soviet Communists into your neighborhood to kill your puppies! That number again….”

—Buck Henry, SNL.

131
bubba zanetti  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:17:13pm

re: #125 Blind Frog Belly White

What do you call a large gray animal with four legs and a trunk?

A frustrated gray whale in an Ikea checkout line?

132
ObserverArt  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:17:48pm

You know…reading some of the outside comments some of the LGF members are putting up today sure makes one want to go all Godwin on this crap. But I won’t. I think a lot of us can see this for the fascist thinking it is.

I hope there is a way to stop it ASAP or this country might keep on the path to become a full blown fascist state and a danger to the world…which would make us a danger to us.

I can’t believe so many people think this way. But here we are.

133
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:18:57pm

re: #126 allegro

re: #129 Bubblehead II

re: #131 bubba zanetti

Nobody likes a smart alec! At least, that’s what people keep telling me…

134
aagcobb  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:25:19pm

re: #132 ObserverArt

You know…reading some of the outside comments some of the LGF members are putting up today sure makes one want to go all Godwin on this crap. But I won’t. I think a lot of us can see this for the fascist thinking it is.

I hope there is a way to stop it ASAP or this country might keep on the path to become a full blown fascist state and a danger to the world…which would make us a danger to us.

I can’t believe so many people think this way. But here we are.

I really don’t think there is much danger of that. Even if Trump won the nomination (I don’t believe he will), which, imo would make the GOP the first electorally significant fascist party in the US, he can’t win the general. He would need about 2/3 of the white vote to win, since he will get virtually no minority support, and I firmly believe that we aren’t that delusional. Obama got 39% of the white vote; I have a hard time believing Hillary would get less than he did.

135
b_sharp  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:26:37pm

re: #133 Blind Frog Belly White

Nobody likes a smart alec! At least, that’s what people keep telling me…

Don’t worry, you’re not smart enough, Alec.

136
lawhawk  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:29:51pm

Trump isn’t plucking this crazy out of the ether. He’s mining the rich layer of bovine excrement laid down by his predecessors and has found fertile ground.

137
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:30:10pm

If one more RWNJ bleats at me that the 14th Amendment doesn’t apply to undocumented immigrants because they’re not subject to the jurisdiction of the Constitution, I’m going to bitchslap someone.

God these people are fucking morons.

138
BeachDem  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:31:35pm

re: #136 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Trump isn’t plucking this crazy out of the ether. He’s mining the rich layer of bovine excrement laid down by his predecessors and has found fertile ground.

Old poison in new bottles. Welcome to the campaign of the current Republican frontrunner.

esquire.com

140
Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:32:38pm

O/T

I just got a call back from the Greensboro Natural Science Center for an interview tomorrow. :)

The position is for presenting educational science programs to school groups.

Excited does not begin to describe me!

141
Lidane  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:35:49pm
142
lawhawk  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:36:44pm

re: #139 Backwoods_Sleuth

Has appearance of a Bleve explosion.

143
Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:37:39pm

re: #142 lawhawk

Has appearance of a Bleve explosion.

Saw something that there was some sort of fuel tank in the barn.

144
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:38:17pm

re: #132 ObserverArt

You know…reading some of the outside comments some of the LGF members are putting up today sure makes one want to go all Godwin on this crap. But I won’t. I think a lot of us can see this for the fascist thinking it is.

I hope there is a way to stop it ASAP or this country might keep on the path to become a full blown fascist state and a danger to the world…which would make us a danger to us.

I can’t believe so many people think this way. But here we are.

Not disagreeing with your comment at all, but I wonder how “Fascist” got to be the all-purpose insult? In my opinion, of the 20th Century right-wing movements, the Fascists were the least objectionable. Between the establishment of the one-party state in 1928 and the downfall of the Fascist régime in 1943, there were 17 people executed for political “crimes”. This is of course 17 too many, but it compares very favorably with Nazi Germany or Falangist Spain.

American RWNJs aren’t Fascists, I don’t think. I’ve called them Nazis on more than one occasion but they’re really not—the Nazi philosophy was a weird, very culturally specific mishmash that doesn’t really apply here. What they are in my opinion, is Falangists. Rick Santorum and Fat Tony Scalia are quite open about it.

145
Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:41:39pm

re: #142 lawhawk

Has appearance of a Bleve explosion.

Oh, I thought that the eighteenth candidate had announced for the GOP nomination.

146
Blind Frog Belly White  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:43:45pm

re: #145 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Oh, I thought that the eighteenth candidate had announced for the GOP nomination.

Believe In Bleve!

147
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:48:52pm

re: #144 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Well, because Falangism and Nazism are subsets of fascism.

148
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:53:33pm

re: #147 Nyet

Well, because Falangism and Nazism are subsets of fascism.

That’s my point. Why is “Fascism” used as the overarching term?

149
ObserverArt  Aug 19, 2015 • 12:56:01pm

re: #144 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Not disagreeing with your comment at all, but I wonder how “Fascist” got to be the all-purpose insult? In my opinion, of the 20th Century right-wing movements, the Fascists were the least objectionable. Between the establishment of the one-party state in 1928 and the downfall of the Fascist régime in 1943, there were 17 people executed for political “crimes”. This is of course 17 too many, but it compares very favorably with Nazi Germany or Falangist Spain.

American RWNJs aren’t Fascists, I don’t think. I’ve called them Nazis on more than one occasion but they’re really not—the Nazi philosophy was a weird, very culturally specific mishmash that doesn’t really apply here. What they are in my opinion, is Falangists. Rick Santorum and Fat Tony Scalia are quite open about it.

It is not an insult. There are certain types of thinking that leads to a fascists mind set. Also fascism takes different forms. It should not be understood to be just a Nazi Germany thing. It actually is as Italian-based word. Spain was another early practitioner.

Here is the Wiki definition. See if some of the current political and social thinking isn’t in it.

Historians, political scientists and other scholars have long debated the exact nature of fascism.[22] Each form of fascism is distinct, leaving many definitions too wide or narrow.[23][24]

One common definition of fascism focuses on three concepts: the fascist negations of anti-liberalism, anti-communism and anti-conservatism; nationalist authoritarian goals of creating a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture; and a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth and charismatic leadership.[25][26][27] According to many scholars, fascism — especially once in power — has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far right.[28]

Roger Griffin describes fascism as “a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism”.[29] Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: “(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism and (iii) the myth of decadence”.[30] Fascism is “a genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism” built on a complex range of theoretical and cultural influences. He distinguishes an inter-war period in which it manifested itself in elite-led but populist “armed party” politics opposing socialism and liberalism and promising radical politics to rescue the nation from decadence.[31]

Robert Paxton says that fascism is “a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.”[32]

Like I said, we are not there. But we have some of the elements that make me concerned. It is not a direction I want to see us go, but it is a direction that many would be glad to head out on.

150
Nyet  Aug 19, 2015 • 1:00:05pm

re: #148 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

That’s my point. Why is “Fascism” used as the overarching term?

I thought you wondered about why it was an all-purpose insult, rather than an overarching term ;)

Anyway, the Italian Fascists were earlier than the Nazis and the Falangists, and the latter two were classified as “fascists” (small f) by many contemporaries, so it stuck, I guess.

151
Eventual Carrion  Aug 19, 2015 • 1:00:16pm

re: #33 lawhawk

Whitesplainin’, courtesy of Huckabee:

[Embedded content]

Mind you, you’ve got right wingers now attempting to divine the percentage of racial background that qualifies as authentic black.

Screw them and their racism. They want to deprive people of their rights under the law. That’s why BLM matters. That’s why they want to attack those who are prominent and involved in BLM, because it somehow threatens the status quo, even though it doesn’t affect any of their rights personally (except where these racists see it as their right to deprive others of their rights).

Yes, MLK would tell them, “Fuck your dream!” i’m sure.

152
Jenner7  Aug 19, 2015 • 1:23:54pm

re: #96 teleskiguy

Oh my god, Ted Cruz….hahahahaha.

153
taserian  Aug 19, 2015 • 2:56:28pm

I’ll speak to an example that’s currently going on in my parent’s country of origin, (quoting from USA TODAY )

“In 2013, the Dominican Republic’s Supreme Court ruled that people born between 1929 and 2010 in the country to non-citizen parents did not qualify as Dominican citizens. The decision effectively stripped tens of thousands of people of their nationality retroactively, prompting activists to accuse the government of making people stateless.”

The Dominican Republic, until 2013, was a jus soli state (citizenship determined by location upon birth), while Haiti is a jus sanguini country (citizenship is determined by parents, not by where you were born). What do you do with the large number of people who now have no valid paperwork for identification (no recognition in their country of birth, and no documentation from the country of citizenship)?

Would Trump’s illegal immigrant plan enact a similar policy that applies retroactively?

154
makeitstop  Aug 19, 2015 • 4:36:53pm

re: #96 teleskiguy

I needed this.

[Embedded content]

Best. BLR. Ever.

That was brilliant.


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