Kentucky's Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins Slams Kim Davis and Her "Out of State Charlatan Lawyers"

Kentucky’s Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins Slams Kim Davis and Her “Out of State Charlatan Lawyers”

“Liberty Counsel will leave Kim Davis high and dry when this charade is over”

PoliticsSeptember 2015 • Views: 60,173

LGF reader “ipsos” tipped us off to this Facebook post by Shannon Ragland at the Kentucky Trial Court Review, on the horrible religious right showdown going on in Kentucky’s Rowan County, where Kim Davis is refusing to issue marriage certificates to same sex couples and claiming a “religious freedom” exemption from the law.

Exclusive. Just conducted an interview with Cecil Watkins, the Rowan County Attorney. Watkins (to my knowledge) hasn’t given any interviews.

Watkins indicates that Kim Davis “does not represent” Rowan County and is not representative of its inclusive values.

From Day One, Watkins told Davis I “will not and cannot support” you in her defiance of the law. Not only that he was clear he would not represent her as the law in the case of same sex marriage is clear.

While he has no stance on same sex marriage, well-established federal law must be followed.

Watkins wanted to emphasize several other things.

First that everyone who works at the courthouse has endured cursing as they enter the building. And it’s not just at her office. Everyone in the courthouse is scared to come to work.

Second that Liberty Counsel will leave Kim Davis high and dry when this charade is over. Watkins thinks the funds they raise off the case should go to Rowan County.

Finally and most importantly he has learned that deputy clerks would issue lawful marriage licenses. They are simply afraid to do so. And if Judge Bunning instructs them to do so … they will.

Davis has put, in the words of Watkins, her employees and everyone in the courthouse in a “terrible position.”

Watkins, in his role as the County Attorney, will be in court tomorrow for the hearing at 11:00 in Ashland. He is pictured being sworn in.

Ed. Note - The takeaways from the Watkins interview are clear. Davis is acting alone in her zealous mission. Her conduct has terrorized not just her staff but everyone that works in the courthouse. And all for a foolish mission aided by out of state charlatan lawyers trying to raise money for their “religious liberty” mission.

Shannon Ragland
Kentucky Trial Court Review

Jump to bottom

135 comments

William Lewis Sep 2, 2015 • 7:38:00pm

I wonder if her out of state friends will help pay the massive fines she’ll start accruing tomorrow…?

calochortus Sep 2, 2015 • 7:39:18pm

“First that everyone who works at the courthouse has endured cursing as they enter the building. And it’s not just at her office. Everyone in the courthouse is scared to come to work”.

I’m a bit confused by this. Who is cursing them?

Kragar Sep 2, 2015 • 7:42:28pm

Meanwhile, RWNJs are out there calling Davis “Rosa Parks” and saying how brave she is.

*spit*

insert_funny Sep 2, 2015 • 7:42:46pm

One person with an agenda can disrupt the legitimate business of an entire county and still claim oppression. Crazy.

Great White Snark Sep 2, 2015 • 7:42:53pm

re: #3 Kragar

Meanwhile, RWNJs are out there calling Davis “Rosa Parks” and saying how brave she is.

*spit*

Civil disobedience or even criminal actions that are of the heart, as in a generous helpful or caring perspective can be respected. Sheltering an immigrant. Helping a panicked victim of circumstance. This is the opposite. This is of phobia hate and exclusion. Damn this woman for her hatred and disdain. Damn her for making things worse with great deliberation and aforethought. Bless the tolerant exclude the hateful. Simple rules.

Charles Johnson Sep 2, 2015 • 7:43:20pm

re: #2 calochortus

I’m a bit confused by this. Who is cursing them?

I suspect it’s people who don’t like what Kim Davis is doing, and think everyone who works there is equally bigoted.

Which is wrong, of course, but that’s why Watkins said Davis has put everyone at the courthouse in a terrible position.

Great White Snark Sep 2, 2015 • 7:43:37pm

re: #4 insert_funny

One person with an agenda can disrupt the legitimate business of an entire county and still claim oppression. Crazy.

Hello new person.

Kragar Sep 2, 2015 • 7:45:02pm

Not Even the Bible Can Protect Kim Davis. Here’s Why. http://t.co/BYPGRKvPM2

— Jeff Berard (@jaberard) September 3, 2015

Kim Davis’s oath of office:

“I, ….., do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of ………….. County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God.”

jaunte Sep 2, 2015 • 7:45:34pm

Davis worked as a deputy clerk for 27 years under her mother:

Davis has lived nowhere else but Rowan County, and the clerk’s office has literally been a family business.

She went to work for her mother, Jean Bailey, as a deputy straight out of Rowan County High School, and eventually was chief deputy.

In a three-way Democratic primary last year, Davis won by 23 votes, then faced off against a Republican who campaigned against nepotism in the office, where her son Nathan now works as a deputy.

Davis touted the service of her mother, who was in office 37 years, and promised voters continuity.
courier-journal.com

Maybe after more than 50 years it’s time to stop the dynasty.

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 7:46:55pm

She’s a lazy moocher.

calochortus Sep 2, 2015 • 7:47:02pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I suspect it’s people who don’t like what Kim Davis is doing, and think everyone who works there is equally bigoted.

Which is wrong, of course, but that’s why Watkins said Davis has put everyone at the courthouse in a terrible position.

Kind of what I thought, but it was not stated clearly.

insert_funny Sep 2, 2015 • 7:50:26pm

re: #7 Great White Snark

Hi! Nice to be here.

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 7:50:31pm

re: #8 Kragar

Jesus prohibited taking any oath:

33”Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

But that didn’t faze her, apparently.

Dave In Austin Sep 2, 2015 • 7:53:11pm

@Lawrence #SnakeHandlers!! AAGHHH!!!!! Have a drink my friend.

— DaveT62 (@DaveoutofAustin) September 3, 2015

William Lewis Sep 2, 2015 • 7:53:12pm

re: #13 Nyet

Jesus prohibited taking any oath:

But that didn’t faze her, apparently.

Why would that bother her if Matthew 19:8 didn’t either?

Great White Snark Sep 2, 2015 • 7:54:18pm

re: #12 insert_funny

Been lurking long?

jaunte Sep 2, 2015 • 7:54:21pm

Davis’ supporters praised her for standing firm in defense of a traditional definition of marriage. Wearing a camouflaged “God’s Army” baseball cap, Norman Elam of Morgan County said the Supreme Court’s landmark gay marriage decision was “Biblical prophesy,” a sign of the end times.
“I’m here today to save America — not just spiritually, but physically, to keep this nation great,” Elam said. “This (same-sex marriage) is designed to break down the family unit in America and cause the country to fall from within. I feel like that’s what gays and lesbians are doing.”

kentucky.com

jaunte Sep 2, 2015 • 7:55:35pm

Josh Duggar is apparently hiding out under a camouflaged God’s Army baseball cap.

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 7:55:46pm

Kim Davis is angling for a ticket for the sweet sweet right wing grifter gravy train.

Reminds me of an album cover from 47 years ago.

Kragar Sep 2, 2015 • 7:56:11pm

re: #17 jaunte

The “END TIMES” have been right around the corner for the last 2k years.

Eric The Fruit Bat Sep 2, 2015 • 7:57:35pm

I hope that if the worse case scenario happens, that her pension not only gets threatened, but revoked for conduct unbecoming a public official. Pensions have been rescinded for far smaller offenses.

ObserverArt Sep 2, 2015 • 7:57:41pm

Good night all.

Tomorrow’s forecast calls for more than usual political craziness.

FormerDirtDart Sep 2, 2015 • 8:02:03pm

O’Reilly asks expert if Black Lives Matter is to blame for police murders. Then things got awkward http://t.co/yU2HCUq60I

— ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) September 3, 2015

O’Reilly: Dr. Peter Moskos, professor at John Jay College Of Criminal Justice, former police officer. Do you believe that the Black Lives Matter Crew and other radicals are igniting violence against cops?
Moskos: I think they are making the police job tougher. I think the police can handle that. It’s always been a tough job. But no, I don’t think… There’s not a result of cops getting killed from Black Lives Matter.
O’Reilly: Ok, so despite the provocative, “pigs in a blanket” and all of this business. And every time there is controversy about an officer shooting a black person they’re out there stirring the pot. You don’t feel like disturbed individuals watch this and act out.
Moskos: There are fewer cops shot this year than last year. Are you willing to give Black Lives Matter credit for that? Cops shootings are down.
O’Reilly: I know they are down. Slightly.
Moskos: Seventeen percent.
O’Reilly: But in August they are up.
Moskos: August was a bad month. In July there were none. Overall they are down. I don’t see an epidemic there.

thecommodore Sep 2, 2015 • 8:05:07pm

twitter.com

Eric The Fruit Bat Sep 2, 2015 • 8:11:11pm

re: #24 thecommodore

IOW, she swore to uphold man’s law to God, but in in doing so disobeyed God, while claiming to uphold God.

Now where have we seen this before?……

insert_funny Sep 2, 2015 • 8:15:15pm

re: #16 Great White Snark

Since Chuck C. Johnson decided to get himself suspended from Twitter three times on Memorial Day. After the boss around here gave me a follow last week, I finally came out of the shadows and signed on.

Reality Based Steve Sep 2, 2015 • 8:16:12pm

re: #3 Kragar

Meanwhile, RWNJs are out there calling Davis “Rosa Parks” and saying how brave she is.

*spit*

But I thought that Rosa Parks was a communist sympathizer and agitator. That’s what they were saying before. I’m so confused.////

Reality Based Steve Sep 2, 2015 • 8:17:30pm

re: #12 insert_funny

Hi! Nice to be here.

Welcome to the last refuge of sanity on the interwebs. Now get us a round of drinks.

/jk

but seriously, I could use a cold drink

RBS

Great White Snark Sep 2, 2015 • 8:17:59pm

re: #26 insert_funny

Welcome to the oasis on the internet.

Great White Snark Sep 2, 2015 • 8:18:34pm

re: #28 Reality Based Steve

Welcome to the last refuge of sanity on the interwebs. Now get us a round of drinks.

/jk

but seriously, I could use a cold drink

RBS

Titos on ice?

Reality Based Steve Sep 2, 2015 • 8:19:00pm

re: #23 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Statistical Variability… You can’t explain that.

Reality Based Steve Sep 2, 2015 • 8:20:28pm

re: #30 Great White Snark

Titos on ice?

Just a Tonic and Lime please. I’m a non-drinking type lizard.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 8:21:01pm

So, Huckabee and Jindal say stupid things about this today.

They’re so desperate to get out of the bottom of the middle of the pack of the GOP candidates that they have to do something to get attention.

Trump has sucked all the wingnut air molecules out of the room, living little to spread around to other candidates (other than to my-best-friend-Ben-is-black Carson.)

This martyrdom gimmick works on a certain crowd, and the negligent clerk in question is clearly going to either get fired or retire or miraculously be moved to some other county position so that someone else can come in and do the job.

So the martyr-fandom will have plenty to work with, as far as a “victim”.

Even though I’m not sure there are enough decent people to push back the xenophobia of Trump, I do believe that this case of faux-martyrdom is going to not go very far in the public sphere of American politics.

In other words, while there is a set intersection between the xenophobes and the religious right that is not the empty set, there are more of the former who won’t really want to die on a hill in Kentucky over gay marriage, than in the latter who are going to wail and gnash their teeth over teh ghey.

This is an assertion of my belief that a society we really have become more libertine than any other time in our history (since the Revolution.) The masses can still be incited to fume over the other (Muslims, Mexicans, etc.) but in this case I think the other doesn’t include gay people so much any more.

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 8:21:02pm

re: #26 insert_funny

Sup dude. Me?

Just chillin’.

BeachDem Sep 2, 2015 • 8:21:53pm

re: #25 Eric The Fruit Bat

IOW, she swore to uphold man’s law to God, but in in doing so disobeyed God, while claiming to uphold God.

Now where have we seen this before?……

Or maybe she’s just a self-important busybody taking her bigotry out for a walk on the news.

esquire.com

GlutenFreeJesus Sep 2, 2015 • 8:24:33pm

Too bad there wasn’t a country clerk available to deny her any divorces.

ipsos Sep 2, 2015 • 8:25:15pm

Wow! I made the LGF front page! And just in time for my fifth anniversary here (as a registered user, anyway) in a couple of weeks.

(blushing)

BeachDem Sep 2, 2015 • 8:27:52pm

re: #27 Reality Based Steve

But I thought that Rosa Parks was a communist sympathizer and agitator. That’s what they were saying before. I’m so confused.////

She’s about as much like Rosa Parks as Ted Nugent is. Or, as John Fugelsang put it in The subtle differences between Rosa Parks and Ted Nugent:

“Because Rosa Parks refused to budge when asked to give up her seat. And Ted Nugent refuses to budge when asked to give up his ignorance.”

insert_funny Sep 2, 2015 • 8:28:54pm

re: #34 teleskiguy

I’ll be chillin’ myself in about 40 minutes. Just have to make sure the soup cans don’t get too rowdy in the meantime.

GlutenFreeJesus Sep 2, 2015 • 8:35:41pm

re: #38 BeachDem

And Ted would be the one pulling Rosa out of her seat, and tossing her out the window.

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 8:35:49pm

classy

@Mrbananasmd pic.twitter.com/QWa7MQmyg0

— George Zimmerman (@TherealGeorgeZ) September 2, 2015

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 8:37:14pm

re: #39 insert_funny

Welcome! Don’t be shy!

BeachDem Sep 2, 2015 • 8:37:42pm

And speaking of Trump (even if we weren’t)

Varek Raith Sep 2, 2015 • 8:38:08pm

re: #43 BeachDem

And speaking of Trump (even if we weren’t)

[Embedded content]

SMH.

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 8:38:30pm

re: #43 BeachDem

And speaking of Trump (even if we weren’t)

Embedded Image

CHINA

BeachDem Sep 2, 2015 • 8:38:43pm

re: #40 GlutenFreeJesus

And Ted would be the one pulling Rosa out of her seat, and tossing her out the window.

Or telling her to such his machine gun…or shooting her.

GlutenFreeJesus Sep 2, 2015 • 8:39:55pm

re: #45 teleskiguy

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 8:40:39pm

re: #24 thecommodore

twitter.com

:)

That. Is. Hysterical. Thank you!

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 8:41:07pm

re: #26 insert_funny

Since Chuck C. Johnson decided to get himself suspended from Twitter three times on Memorial Day. After the boss around here gave me a follow last week, I finally came out of the shadows and signed on.

Welcome!

Reality Based Steve Sep 2, 2015 • 8:42:22pm

Night gang, Time for me to crash out. Gotta take a test in the AM, pretty sure I’m ready for it, we’ll find out for sure tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I’ll leave you with this thought for the nite…

You know, it all makes sense now

RBS

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 8:43:00pm

re: #27 Reality Based Steve

But I thought that Rosa Parks was a communist sympathizer and agitator. That’s what they were saying before. I’m so confused.////

Please don’t expect consistency from those folks. It’s ALL about what they think pisses off liberals (and Obama). It’s hate, hate and more hate. They hate just to hate! Trying to make rhyme or reason will make you nuts.

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 8:45:27pm

re: #33 freetoken

Davis is elected. I don’t think you can job shift easily. She’s not a civil servant. (Right?)

GlutenFreeJesus Sep 2, 2015 • 8:46:33pm

re: #24 thecommodore

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 8:47:32pm

re: #36 GlutenFreeJesus

Too bad there wasn’t a country clerk available to deny her any divorces.

Or marriage licenses in #2, #3 or #4.

And, she’s a Scarlet Letter worthy harlot, to boot. Seriously, she’s got some nerve.

Lidane Sep 2, 2015 • 8:49:55pm

Ya don’t say. #KimDavis #DoYourJob http://t.co/NgGeAOVls7 pic.twitter.com/BpdMGPQLzj

— eddie outlaw (@TheEddieOutlaw) September 2, 2015

blueraven Sep 2, 2015 • 8:51:11pm

OT but very interesting development here.

Breaking News: China to cut military by 300,000 http://t.co/MXuHLimKQ5

— The New York Times (@nytimes) September 3, 2015

harvson3 Sep 2, 2015 • 8:59:54pm

Your reminder, for those who forget:
When practicing civil disobedience for not paying a poll tax, Thoreau spent three nights in jail. He didn’t exhaust all his appeals with lawyers, or go about grandstanding.
Dr. King went to the Birmingham jail, and refused clemency.
Gandhi went to jail at least once.
If you’re going to sacrifice for and grandstand on your principles, odd as they might seem, be willing to face the consequences. I might even consider respecting your ability to stand on principle.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:01:07pm

re: #56 blueraven

TAQQIIYYAAAAAA!!!!!

_{_{_{_{…… wrong boogeyman….}}}}

Charles Johnson Sep 2, 2015 • 9:01:07pm

Bilking the rubes.

CNN is charging 40 times its usual price for commercials in the next Republican debate http://t.co/rifCJhbJJu pic.twitter.com/ZKlk4IBAL4

— Ad Age (@adage) September 3, 2015

Unabogie Sep 2, 2015 • 9:01:23pm

re: #41 Nyet

classy

[Embedded content]

Nah, he’s not a racist and certainly would never make up an “attack” that never happened. It’s good that he’s showing his ass, though.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:01:58pm

re: #59 Charles Johnson

Trump is good for business.

If you’re in the tabloid business.

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 9:03:48pm

re: #59 Charles Johnson

Bilking the rubes.

[Embedded content]

Might as well. I’m certainly watching just for the LULZ!

Lidane Sep 2, 2015 • 9:06:20pm

re: #13 Nyet

Jesus prohibited taking any oath:

But that didn’t faze her, apparently.

Speaking of taking oaths:

.@GOP circulates loyalty pledge to Republican campaigns http://t.co/N8Uibny07V via @DanaBashCNN & @tomlobianco pic.twitter.com/kIrgAvFMYj

— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) September 2, 2015

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:08:44pm

If I were Trump, I would publicly sign the pledge, saying that the signature is only valid if the GOP establishment doesn’t try to drown me, or something.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:11:17pm

re: #63 Lidane

Now is the time
For all good Republicans
To make it a crime
To be a Trump publican.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:12:32pm

Hmm… that last post only looks good in the Spy mode. Why is that?

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:13:51pm

Anyway, for all you in normal mode, here is my little ditty:

Now is the time
For all good Republicans
To make it a crime
To be a Trump publican.

goddamnedfrank Sep 2, 2015 • 9:16:06pm

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:16:39pm

re: #66 freetoken

For some reason your text got posted in an “image” div in html. Sort of, it’s a text but it’s treated as an image by the LGF engine, e.g. you can’t quote it.

What did you do?

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:17:36pm

re: #69 Nyet

I used the class that is used for centering images, in order to get center-aligned text.

It works in spy mode.

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:18:23pm

re: #70 freetoken

That explains it. Leave out “imgdiv”.

Higgs Boson's Mate Sep 2, 2015 • 9:18:56pm

re: #63 Lidane

A loyalty pledge this far out from the election? Someone hand Reince Priebus his brown pants.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:19:48pm

re: #71 Nyet

Then it won’t center align.

Jenner7 Sep 2, 2015 • 9:21:10pm

Breaking news (MSNBC) about two hours ago, the guy who set up Hillary’s server will plead the 5th. Can’t find anything right now, but I’m sure it will be all over the news tomorrow.

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:22:18pm

test
test
test

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:24:32pm

re: #75 Nyet

So, how did you get it to work?

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:25:36pm

re: #76 freetoken

p align=center

Charles Johnson Sep 2, 2015 • 9:25:54pm

To center-align some text, do this:

<div class=”center”>Here
is
the
centered
text</div>

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:26:43pm

1
2
3
text

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:27:04pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

thx

Charles Johnson Sep 2, 2015 • 9:27:13pm

The “acenter” class is a special class intended only for images.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:29:30pm

Now is the time
For all good Republicans
To make it a crime
To be a Trump publican.

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 9:30:09pm

ooh… is good.

allegro Sep 2, 2015 • 9:32:04pm

I so hope the judge throws the book at Davis tomorrow. This crap gots to stop.

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Sep 2, 2015 • 9:33:48pm

re: #84 allegro

I so hope the judge throws the book at Davis tomorrow. This crap gots to stop.

I seriously doubt she shows up. She probably thinks these lame-ass motions she filed drag things out another few weeks.

thecommodore Sep 2, 2015 • 9:34:20pm

re: #41 Nyet

classy

[Embedded content]

Klassier is the Confederate battle flag profile pic. :/

Jenner7 Sep 2, 2015 • 9:34:24pm

I found it:

Bryan Pagliano, Clinton’s Former Tech Staffer, Will Plead The Fifth In Email Investigation

“It is understandable that attorneys for Mr. Pagliano have advised him to assert his constitutional right not to testify given the onslaught of reckless accusations of criminal conduct that continue to be made by many Republicans — including several running for President — without evidence to support their claims,” read the letter, sent on Wednesday to the House committee investigating the 2012 Benghazi attack. The memo, sent from the House Benghazi Committee Democrats, cited a letter received on Monday from Pagliano’s attorneys.

thinkprogress.org

allegro Sep 2, 2015 • 9:36:03pm

re: #85 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I seriously doubt she shows up. She probably thinks these lame-ass motions she filed drag things out another few weeks.

The appropriate response to that is a warrant for her arrest for contempt.

Charles Johnson Sep 2, 2015 • 9:36:52pm

re: #87 Jenner7

Of course he’s pleading the 5th. Anybody who gets in the sights of the GOP hit squad gunning for Hillary would be crazy not to.

Higgs Boson's Mate Sep 2, 2015 • 9:36:55pm

re: #74 Jenner7

Breaking news (MSNBC) about two hours ago, the guy who set up Hillary’s server will plead the 5th. Can’t find anything right now, but I’m sure it will be all over the news tomorrow.

Clinton had best do whatever it takes to get in front of this business right now lest it be a big distraction during the campaign. It’s a mystery to me how anyone with presidential ambitions would think that it was okay to set up a private server for government business and then scrub the thing when called upon to give it up. She handed this issue to the GOP on a silver platter. Her ability to put it behind her - or not - will affect her candidacy should she win the nomination.

WhatEVs Sep 2, 2015 • 9:38:17pm

re: #87 Jenner7

I found it:

Bryan Pagliano, Clinton’s Former Tech Staffer, Will Plead The Fifth In Email Investigation

thinkprogress.org

Same as Lois Learner. The witch hunt by lying assholes could land some innocent schmuck in real hot water.

GlutenFreeJesus Sep 2, 2015 • 9:39:08pm

re: #90 Higgs Boson’s Mate

She hasn’t handled this well at all.

(I hope Biden decides to run)

Charles Johnson Sep 2, 2015 • 9:40:54pm

And of course the right wing parrot brigade will scream that taking the 5th is evidence he’s hiding something, even though they know it isn’t.

blueraven Sep 2, 2015 • 9:41:56pm

re: #87 Jenner7

I found it:

Bryan Pagliano, Clinton’s Former Tech Staffer, Will Plead The Fifth In Email Investigation

thinkprogress.org

Washington Post broke the story

Staffer who worked on Clinton’s private e-mail server faces subpoena
…

The move by Bryan Pagliano, who had worked on Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign before setting up the server in her New York home in 2009, came in a Monday letter from his lawyer to the House panel investigating the 2012 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya.

The letter cited the ongoing FBI inquiry into the security of Clinton’s e-mail system, and it quoted a Supreme Court ruling in which justices described the Fifth Amendment as protecting “innocent men . . . ‘who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.’ ”

allegro Sep 2, 2015 • 9:42:55pm

re: #90 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Clinton had best do whatever it takes to get in front of this business right now lest it be a big distraction during the campaign. It’s a mystery to me how anyone with presidential ambitions would think that it was okay to set up a private server for government business and then scrub the thing when called upon to give it up. She handed this issue to the GOP on a silver platter. Her ability to put it behind her - or not - will affect her candidacy should she win the nomination.

Seriously? FFS how many Republicans have wiped clean their official gov emails when they left office? I’m recalling Romney and Huckleberry specifically and where was the fucking scandal? As far as I know she only removed her personal stuff and turned over everything else.

gwangung Sep 2, 2015 • 9:44:04pm

re: #90 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Clinton had best do whatever it takes to get in front of this business right now lest it be a big distraction during the campaign. It’s a mystery to me how anyone with presidential ambitions would think that it was okay to set up a private server for government business and then scrub the thing when called upon to give it up. She handed this issue to the GOP on a silver platter. Her ability to put it behind her - or not - will affect her candidacy should she win the nomination.

Soooo…more serious than Romney not turning over his tax returns?

blueraven Sep 2, 2015 • 9:45:49pm

re: #96 gwangung

Soooo…more serious than Romney not turning over his tax returns?

How about destroyed the hard drive of his computer as MA governor?

Viscous Obama Sep 2, 2015 • 9:46:30pm

Lookit this

On April 7, 1977, she [Ivana] married Donald John Trump in a lavish society wedding. The Trumps became leading figures in New York high society and business during the 1980s. Ivana’s legal status between 1976-1977 is questionable because she overstayed her Visa. Even though she married Donald Trump, a US citizen, her questionable status did not change until the birth of her oldest son, Donald Jr.

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:46:58pm

A nice breakdown of how the gospels differ from actual ancient historical writings:

Ancient Historical Writing Compared to the Gospels of the New Testament

Pretty old, but found only today.

100

Jenner7 Sep 2, 2015 • 9:47:46pm

If it wasn’t the emails, they’d still have Benghazi to bitch about.

This ain’t going to be easy for Hillary.

101

Higgs Boson's Mate Sep 2, 2015 • 9:50:17pm

re: #95 allegro

Clinton’s behavior and motives could have been pure as the driven snow and it would make no difference when both can easily be construed as self-serving. Legally, having that ex-staffer plead the Fifth is a good idea. Practically that plea just leads to more people wondering just what she’s trying to hide. Yeah, that’s stupid. More stupid is not anticipating that things would play out just as they have.

102

gwangung Sep 2, 2015 • 9:51:07pm

re: #100 Jenner7

If it wasn’t the emails, they’d still have Benghazi to bitch about.

This ain’t going to be easy for Hillary.

I dunno. I think they’d find something so they can do the same shit to any other Democratic candidate.

103

Higgs Boson's Mate Sep 2, 2015 • 9:52:34pm

re: #96 gwangung

If Republicans and Democrats were held to the same standards by both the media and the public things would be different. As it is, Republicans get forgiven and Democrats get reproaches no matter what each does.

104

Dark_Falcon Sep 2, 2015 • 9:52:40pm

re: #59 Charles Johnson

Bilking the rubes.

[Embedded content]

No, its just surge pricing, like what Uber does. Commercials aired during the GOP debate this month will be seen by far more people than a typical commercial on CNN, so the space for such commercials is priced accordingly.

105

Higgs Boson's Mate Sep 2, 2015 • 9:54:15pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

The Stupid Bowl shouldn’t get any less for commercials than the Super Bowl.

106

goddamnedfrank Sep 2, 2015 • 9:54:59pm

re: #101 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Legally, having that ex-staffer plead the Fifth is a good idea. Practically that plea just leads to more people wondering just what she’s trying to hide. Yeah, that’s stupid. More stupid is not anticipating that things would play out just as they have.

Of course she isn’t having him do anything. It’s entirely his decision, over which she has zero control.

107

Nyet Sep 2, 2015 • 9:55:33pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No, its just surge pricing, like what Uber does. Commercials aired during the GOP debate this month will be seen by far more people than a typical commercial on CNN, so the space for such commercials is priced accordingly.

Because we didn’t know that…/

108

allegro Sep 2, 2015 • 9:57:23pm

re: #101 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Clinton’s behavior and motives could have been pure as the driven snow and it would make no difference when both can easily be construed as self-serving. Legally, having that ex-staffer plead the Fifth is a good idea. Practically that plea just leads to more people wondering just what she’s trying to hide. Yeah, that’s stupid. More stupid is not anticipating that things would play out just as they have.

One cannot anticipate crazy. Hillary did nothing wrong. The RWNJs make up shit - we know this. She knows this better than any. If it wasn’t emails it would be wearing white pants after Labor Day.

109

Dark_Falcon Sep 2, 2015 • 10:02:06pm

re: #90 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Clinton had best do whatever it takes to get in front of this business right now lest it be a big distraction during the campaign. It’s a mystery to me how anyone with presidential ambitions would think that it was okay to set up a private server for government business and then scrub the thing when called upon to give it up. She handed this issue to the GOP on a silver platter. Her ability to put it behind her - or not - will affect her candidacy should she win the nomination.

I don’t think she can put it behind her without having someone who will take the fall. Because emails that clearly did not belong on an unclassified server ended up on one, and not just one or two but a few dozen. That sort of thing can’t be made into bygones without someone pleading guilty and doing some time in Club Fed for the massive security failure this represents.

But that won’t happen soon, because the Department of Justice has to finish investigating first, and there’s a lot more emails that must be gone through. So unless someone wants to go before the Benghazi Committee without immunity or plea deal and cop to breaking federal regulations (which without a deal would be a fairly good stay in prison), Hillary is stuck with a scandal that won’t go away.

110

freetoken Sep 2, 2015 • 10:10:27pm

re: #99 Nyet

Indeed, the Gospels are not written as history and at least the more honest of Christian scholars will readily admit that.

Looking at Christianity as a monolithic movement is probably error prone, but what strikes me is that one thing all branches seem to have in common are Advent plays, gospel plays, that is, some sort of recreation in a staged setting of an actual play, and there are two plays that every church seem to perform, at least once in a while:
Advent
Easter

Now, when I look at the Gospels what strikes me is that they are themselves easily put into play form. They are storyboards, a series of scenes without a lot of concern about how to get from one scene to another.

I think it is not farfetched to believe that the earliest versions of the Gospels indeed functioned first and foremost as this - a playscript.

They weren’t meant to be read by everyone because most people couldn’t read.

But everyone could come and watch a play.

And that’s why the dialogues and scenes in the Gospels are so short. The are literally 1 to 5 minute scenes in about 1 hour plays.

This view is too radical for the fundamentalists, but it has a bit of traction here and there among the non-literalists.

This does also relate I believe to our modern society today. Part of the move towards a post-Christian America, a move which is causing the angst we’re seeing playing out in our politics, is fueled by entertainment avenues which are now free of the Advent-Easter hegemony over plays.

Before the 20th century most people would have gone to very few public entertainment outside of the traveling type (circuses, carnivals.) Before about the 17th century most peoples in Europe lived their lives on an Advent-Easter calendar, and those events were highlighted at the local parish level by recreations in churches of the Gospel events.

It’s into that type of society our nation was formed.

So when Bill O’ cries about a war on Christmas, he’s lamenting the loss of the centrality of plays that are from a very long custom of framing our lives around two plays everyone would see every year - the Christmas play and the Easter play.

A custom that dates back to the very beginning of his religion.

A custom of entertainment found in the playscripts we call “the Gospels.”

111

goddamnedfrank Sep 2, 2015 • 10:12:38pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think she can put it behind her without having someone who will take the fall. Because emails that clearly did not belong on an unclassified server ended up on one, and not just one or two but a few dozen. That sort of thing can’t be made into bygones without someone pleading guilty and doing some time in Club Fed for the massive security failure this represents.

You’re really invested in refusing to understand how FOIA review works. This happens all the time, information is frequently classified after the fact. Not because it should have been classified when it was sent, but because individual pieces of unclassified data can together paint an aggregate image that needs to be classified / redacted before the entire collection can be released to the public.

112

allegro Sep 2, 2015 • 10:12:52pm

Biblical MTV.

113

Jenner7 Sep 2, 2015 • 10:13:30pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Take the fall for what? There is no criminal investigation and she didn’t break any laws.

Why do you think these emails are now being deemed classified, when they originally were not??

114

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 10:14:12pm

I’m forcing myself to watch the film “McConkey,” the film put out by Shane McConkey’s film house that examines his life (he died in a ski-BASE accident in Italy in March 2009, leaving behind a wife and young daughter). I’m only half way through and it is a freaking emotional roller coaster. I’ve been putting off watching it for months and months, knowing I would bawl my eyes out when I saw it. I haven’t cried yet but I’m getting there. And I’m only half way through the film.

115

goddamnedfrank Sep 2, 2015 • 10:32:30pm

116

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 10:33:14pm

re: #114 teleskiguy

Sherry McConkey: He loved BASE jumping, but he loved me more.

117

allegro Sep 2, 2015 • 10:33:29pm

re: #115 goddamnedfrank

Well that’s disturbing.

118

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 10:37:36pm

re: #116 teleskiguy

Half hour left in the film, and I just lost it. Shane McConkey was such a lovely soul. I miss him so much.

119

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 10:38:33pm

*wipes tears* I’m gonna smoke a little grass right now.

120

goddamnedfrank Sep 2, 2015 • 10:44:15pm

Here’s how Donald Trump responded to my essay about him

This is the second time I’ve seen Trump do this, print out an article about him and scribble a nasty note on it to the writer. It’s seriously deranged oldfucker behavior.

121

Jenner7 Sep 2, 2015 • 10:44:38pm

Just noticed I’ve been here (officially) a year now. Really? Already? I guess time flies when you’re having fun.

G’night ev’rybody.

122

gwangung Sep 2, 2015 • 10:46:23pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think she can put it behind her without having someone who will take the fall. Because emails that clearly did not belong on an unclassified server ended up on one, and not just one or two but a few dozen. That sort of thing can’t be made into bygones without someone pleading guilty and doing some time in Club Fed for the massive security failure this represents.

This is a good example of how Republican lies make it into public discourse.

You’ve been duped again, and you really don’t care, do you?

123

goddamnedfrank Sep 2, 2015 • 10:50:45pm

re: #122 gwangung

This is a good example of how Republican lies make it into public discourse.

You’ve been duped again, and you really don’t care, do you?

He really doesn’t care. The FOIA process and what’s really going on with regards to the retroactive classification of these documents has all been explained to him before, in painful detail.

GOP über alles.

124

teleskiguy Sep 2, 2015 • 11:30:27pm

That was the most emotionally heartbreaking thing I’ve put myself through in a long time. From the moment I saw the trailer for “McConkey” I knew it was going to be hard to watch. And it was, oh man, was it. The look on Shane’s daughter’s face on the hike up to the top of Squaw Valley ski area to spread his ashes just tore me up.

The film’s end was lighthearted. Shane, even in death, pranked his ski partner. A few days after Shane had passed his ski partner was in Heathrow Airport lugging all his shit and Shane’s shit too. He goes through customs and finds that his wallet is completely empty. He looked through Shane’s stuff and in a goggle bag found Shane’s wallet. He opened it up and there was all his cash, all his receipts. It was a prank Shane had pulled off for many many years being a ski movie star.

During the credits they show Shane reenacting the ski BASE jump scene from “The Spy Who Loved Me” where Bond skis off a cliff, complete with explosions, machine gun fire and Shane parachuting to safety and watching the last man chasing him plunge to oblivion.

125

piratedan Sep 2, 2015 • 11:43:34pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

when it comes to politics, DF goes into tribal mode at the first beat of the drums. He will take anything that even hints of being detrimental to Dems as gospel until it’s debunked and then forget that it was even debunked. This e-mail shit is still the same nothingburger that Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Shirley Sherrod and the IRS were. Nothing to see here folks….

and we’re still watching the village clutch their pearls and whispered murmurs from the fainting couches that there’s still something sinister afoot…. because THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING… can somebody, anybody find out if Hillary owns a blue dress?

HRC did the same thing her predecessors at State did
8 months after she left, the rules changed
she was asked for her e-mails
they were provided
there’s nothing there that smacks of cover-ups, scandals or even improprieties

You want to chase a REAL e-mail scandal… find out what Dick Cheney did via e-mail before he burned/trashed his private servers

126

freetoken Sep 3, 2015 • 12:00:54am

MP3 Audio

127

freetoken Sep 3, 2015 • 12:11:49am

Back in the middle ‘70’s, I seem to recall, I went to one of those community glee-club performances at the local high school. It didn’t blow me away at the time but it was not unpleasant.

One of the hallmarks of that kind of concert is how, well, inauthentic some of the music can sound, as a piece is ripped from its cultural origin and transplanted into another culture.

And music is all about culture.

But that was the ‘70’s, when the wilder music of the 60’s was tamed a bit by just the right orchestration:

MP3 Audio

128

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Sep 3, 2015 • 12:25:14am

re: #127 freetoken

Back in the middle ‘70’s, I seem to recall, I went to one of those community glee-club performances at the local high school. It didn’t blow me away at the time but it was not unpleasant.

One of the hallmarks of that kind of concert is how, well, inauthentic some of the music can sound, as a piece is ripped from its cultural origin and transplanted into another culture.

And music is all about culture.

But that was the ‘70’s, when the wilder music of the 60’s was tamed a bit by just the right orchestration:

[Embedded content]

Rock ‘n’ roll itself was a tamed-down version of the “race music” of the 40’s…

129

Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Sep 3, 2015 • 12:39:25am

Now for Gail and Dale doing one of those “new songs” on the Lawrence Welk show

130

freetoken Sep 3, 2015 • 12:44:02am

re: #129 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Now for Gail and Dale doing one of those “new songs” on the Lawrence Welk show

Oh yes, Myron on his accordion, and Gail and Dale and their radical new music.

I think some of them were supposed to be my relatives. Lots of Norwegians on that show.

131

freetoken Sep 3, 2015 • 12:47:00am

^☝ _upstairs

132

wheat-dogghazi-mailgate Sep 3, 2015 • 2:44:01am

re: #13 Nyet

Jesus prohibited taking any oath:

But that didn’t faze her, apparently.

Quakers have relied on this passage as support for their testimony against swearing oaths in court or other legal circumstances. That’s why the words “do you swear or affirm” are in the oaths of office, to permit the Quakers to affirm, rather than swear. I reckon it was a compromise, as the Quaker refusal to swear an oath in courts of law created great consternation in Her Majesty’s Courts way back when.

133

Nyet Sep 3, 2015 • 3:04:25am

re: #110 freetoken

That I don’t know. Indeed, one of the reasons the reliability of John’s gospel is usually called into question even by those who think kindly of the synoptics is that Jesus speaks in long monologues which were extremely unlikely to have been derived from the oral tradition. I.e. the author of John was making Jesus’ speeches up. The synoptic shortness on the other hand is compatible with it having gone through a chain of storytellers. Which is also its explanation.

134

KerFuFFler Sep 3, 2015 • 7:35:32am

re: #95 allegro

Seriously? FFS how many Republicans have wiped clean their official gov emails when they left office? I’m recalling Romney and Huckleberry specifically and where was the fucking scandal? As far as I know she only removed her personal stuff and turned over everything else.

Yeah, as far as any of us know…..but that is exactly the problem. The fact that she scrubbed any of the messages leaves us having to take her word that they were not work related. But we can’t know that for sure. Even just the appearance of impropriety is to be avoided in all official matters.

I really wish she had not made it so easy for people to accuse her of shiftiness.

135

Eric The Fruit Bat Sep 3, 2015 • 7:46:20am

re: #93 Charles Johnson

Yep. Any Time any Federal agent knocks on your door think 18 USC 1001 and say nothing.

Spy Auto

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