Neo-Nazi Convicted of 1st Degree Murder in Charlottesville Car Attack

US NewsDecember 2018 • Views: 38,409

There is some good news from the trial of the neo-Nazi who deliberately rammed his car into a crowd of protesters at the infamous Charlottesville white supremacist “Unite the Right” rally: James A. Fields Jr. convicted of killing Heather Heyer in Charlottesville car-ramming.

CHARLOTTESVILLE — An avowed supporter of neo-Nazi beliefs who took part in the violent and chaotic white supremacist “Unite the Right” rally in this city last year was found guilty Friday of first-degree murder for killing a woman by ramming his car through a crowd of counterprotesters.

A jury of seven women and five men began deliberating Friday morning and took just over seven hours to reach its decision that James Alex Fields Jr., 21, of Maumee, Ohio, acted with premeditation when he backed up his 2010 Dodge Challenger and then roared it down a narrow downtown street crowded with counterprotesters, slamming into them and another car. Heather D. Heyer, 32, was killed and 35 others injured, many grievously. Fields was also found guilty on eight counts of malicious wounding.

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284 comments

nicdanger Dec 7, 2018 • 3:27:55pm

Score another one for Justice !

NO SMOCKING GUN! Dec 7, 2018 • 3:28:07pm

From the story, it looks like they are not seeking the death penalty, but he faces federal hate crime charges which could result in a death sentence.

gwangung Dec 7, 2018 • 3:29:37pm

Let him rot in prison.

nicdanger Dec 7, 2018 • 3:30:24pm

re: #2 Big Beautiful Door

I’m just glad he was convicted.And pretty quickly at that.

ObserverArt Dec 7, 2018 • 3:31:03pm

Neal Katyal on Ari just said both Mueller and SDNY prosecutors have made it clear Trump was guilty of a felony of breaking campaign finance laws. He said more or less this is historic for a president to be so named like this in one of these reports.

Ouch!

It’s on now.

And this is only the first blow.

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 3:33:07pm

re: #2 Big Beautiful Door

From the story, it looks like they are not seeking the death penalty, but he faces federal hate crime charges which could result in a death sentence.

Life and a day, baby, life and a day. Oh, and a jump suit embroidered with your new prison name:

“Bitch”.

William Lewis Dec 7, 2018 • 3:35:54pm

re: #2 Big Beautiful Door

He’s 21. Life without the possibility of parole. Kinda like old Skid Row…

Skid Row - 18 And Life (Official Music Video)

Seafaring, coquito drinking Santa! Dec 7, 2018 • 3:36:15pm

Good! I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

fern01 Dec 7, 2018 • 3:36:27pm

re: #3 gwangung

Let him rot in prison.

21 years old - obviously the brain is lacking if he thought this was anyway a smart thing to do.

I find it really sad that the president*’s words and actions lead people to behave in this fashion. Maybe there is a smart enough lawyer around who can work up a case against trump - aiding and abetting.

rhuarc Dec 7, 2018 • 3:37:37pm

Individual-1 is so fucked when the government finally catches up to them!

Seafaring, coquito drinking Santa! Dec 7, 2018 • 3:38:14pm

re: #5 ObserverArt

Neal Katyal on Ari just said both Mueller and SDNY prosecutors have made it clear Trump was guilty of a felony of breaking campaign finance laws. He said more or less this is historic for a president to be so named like this in one of these reports.

Ouch!

It’s on now.

And this is only the first blow.

The game is afoot.

goddamnedfrank Dec 7, 2018 • 3:40:43pm

You had plenty of leftover characters to put “falsely” after “asserts,” which would have been accurate and properly informative. He’s overly lying, again, and you’re choosing to present his obvious lie in a context free light, again.

— Very Legal & Very Cool Frank (@goddamnedfrank) December 7, 2018

Lidane Dec 7, 2018 • 3:42:10pm

re: #10 rhuarc

Individual-1 is so fucked when the government finally catches up to them!

And now we go live to Donald Trump for a response to Mueller’s latest filings… pic.twitter.com/frND6SQo2M

— Rex Huppke (@RexHuppke) December 7, 2018

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 3:42:57pm

re: #11 Seafaring, coquito drinking Santa!

The game is afoot.

And we know how that ends:

Image: monty-python-foot.jpg

MsJ Dec 7, 2018 • 3:44:10pm

re: #12 goddamnedfrank

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

WTH is wrong with you? This is false. It is a lie. Do you not have any damn responsibility AT ALL? Here…

“NEW: “Totally clears the President. Thank you!” President Trump FALSELY/LIES/WRONGLY MORE WORDS HERE asserts in a tweet after new Cohen and Manafort case filings.”

— MsJoanne (@MsJoanne) December 7, 2018

makeitstop Dec 7, 2018 • 3:44:56pm

re: #13 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Oh, Tory. That still hurts to watch.

fern01 Dec 7, 2018 • 3:47:23pm

hehehe - One of Ari’s pundits didn’t want to draw conclusions from the just released memo on Manafort without studying it further.

Ari says - “this is what we do around here - anyone else want to say something”

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 3:48:28pm

Created with the LGF Meme Machine https://t.co/yGqhznAIAs pic.twitter.com/u8tKsK7vtB

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 7, 2018

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 3:50:45pm

It’s been a bit drizzly here the last 24 hours. In the rain gauge so far?, 3.6”.

Still drizzling rather heavily. 36 hours ago, this low pressure system was banging the LA basin. Thanks, Charles!

nicdanger Dec 7, 2018 • 3:52:40pm

re: #17 fern01

hehehe - One of Ari’s pundits didn’t want to draw conclusions from the just released memo on Manafort without studying it further.

Ari says - “this is what we do around here - anyone else want to say something”

That was Neil Katyal.

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 3:54:16pm

Great news out of VA on the Nazi’s conviction in the murder of Heather Heyer.

It’s also another reminder that Trump equated the goddamned Nazis with the people protesting them. He equated the murderer and his ilk with people like Heyer who were protesting Nazis whose march was there to protect statues to the confederacy - statues erected to remind blacks of their subservient place in society, statues erected to the losers of the war of Southern Insurrection (a war fought to preserve the institution of slavery).

And that’s not even the biggest news of the day.

That’s, of course, the Trumpworld sentencing docs for Manafort and Cohen.

tl;dr: Trump’s fucked (legal opinion as an unindicted coconspirator who directly conspired to break multiple federal laws).

The longer version is that Trump’s in so much trouble from so many directions that he doesn’t even know what to do next.

Let’s start with Cohen: Cohen’s docs show that Trump was actively seeking contact with the Russians in 2015 at the UNGA and directed Cohen to contact them - and Cohen lied to investigators about this point. Cohen indicated that contacts continued despite public statements to the contrary.

Then there’s the payoffs for Daniels and the other woman. Both were illegal, and enhanced sentencing was recommended because of how Cohen sought to disguise the payoffs from campaign finance and financial scrutiny (creating bogus front companies, phony invoices, etc.). Again, Trump is directly implicated here.

GOP spin can’t cover the criminality - the stench is too overwhelming, and the only question is what else Mueller has on everyone else in Trumpworld - from Pence and Junior and Ivanka on down. Because it’s increasingly likely that everyone is involved, including key GOP leadership and certain persons like Nunes, Chaffetz, and Rohrabacher.

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 3:54:57pm

Trump keeps claiming that there is nothing to be found by Mueller.

8 OF HIS PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY PLEAD GUILTY TO ONE OR MORE FELONIES: Cohen, Manafort, Gates, Pinedo, van der Zwaan, Papadopoulos, Flynn & Patten.

In addtion: 13 Russians & 3 Russian companies HAVE BEEN INDICTED.

— JimAndrews518 (@JimAndrews518) December 7, 2018

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 3:55:14pm

“This filing essentially destroys what has been the Trump world story, the President’s story for months now…that all the Special Counsel has turned up are old crimes unrelated to the President.” CNN’s @jimsciutto on new filings about Michael Cohen’s case https://t.co/egUlcis9sV pic.twitter.com/ZKlmkgrs8k

— The Situation Room (@CNNSitRoom) December 7, 2018

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 3:57:44pm

re: #21 lawhawk

The scope of the Republican conspiracy to turn America into a de facto one-party dictatorship has been astonishing to see.

fern01 Dec 7, 2018 • 3:58:47pm

re: #20 nicdanger

That was Neil Katyal.

Thanks - he has quite a few people on today (said himself he wasn’t sure who was still around) - I don’t know who they all are - so I googled your name

Professor of National Security Law at Georgetown University Law Center. Katyal served as Acting Solicitor General of the United States from May 2010 until June 2011

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 4:00:13pm

Oh great. One of my mutual funds dove almost 14.7% today..Most likely dividends distributions. Which means I’m probably forking over a couple grand in taxes, out of pocket.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:00:21pm

Mueller also says Manafort lied about his interactions with Konstantin Kilimnik, an associate who the FBI has said was connected to Russian intelligence. pic.twitter.com/Gk1B7g1MMY

— Brad Heath (@bradheath) December 7, 2018

Kilimnik is connected to the GRU — the Kremlin intelligence agency that hacked the DNC. https://t.co/oRjjYj2XDB

— Zac Petkanas (@Zac_Petkanas) December 7, 2018

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 4:02:01pm

Which Republicans want to try to rebuild their party in 8 to 12 years? Better speak up now. Your silence will doom you.

— Greg Pinelo (@gregpinelo) December 8, 2018

nicdanger Dec 7, 2018 • 4:02:33pm

re: #25 fern01

Thanks - he has quite a few people on today (said himself he wasn’t sure who was still around) - I don’t know who they all are - so I googled your name

so…I am good for something ! LOL

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 4:03:04pm

“…And no serving Republican spoke up.”

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 4:04:36pm

Good grief

Facebook Video

Comment from the video

Click to Reveal

There NO possible way you can be any more paralyzed than you are now…..

Hold my beer

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:05:33pm

I peed and shidded in the kitchen 48,000 times today. pic.twitter.com/1dl7h66lVh

— Blue Heron Farm (@BlueHeronFarmTX) December 7, 2018

darthstar Dec 7, 2018 • 4:06:52pm

Boom? Jill fucking Wine-Banks…

Opinion & speculation from a left-leaning but factually accurate source: Mueller Hints That Mike Pence May Be Indicted Soon https://t.co/kdcUwMR0Mv via @politicususa

— Jill Wine-Banks (@JillWineBanks) December 7, 2018

retired cynic Dec 7, 2018 • 4:07:14pm

re: #32 Backwoods_Sleuth

Babies or very old pets… sigh. Two of the later right now.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:08:27pm

“The President’s attacks on the Justice Department broadly and the FBI are something that no matter what political party you’re in, you should find deeply troubling and continue to speak out about and not become numb to attacks on the rule of law” says former FBI director @Comey pic.twitter.com/nROPnZx2aM

— The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) December 7, 2018

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 4:08:57pm

re: #21 lawhawk

Great news out of VA on the Nazi’s conviction in the murder of Heather Heyer.

It’s also another reminder that Trump equated the goddamned Nazis with the people protesting them. He equated the murderer and his ilk with people like Heyer who were protesting Nazis whose march was there to protect statues to the confederacy - statues erected to remind blacks of their subservient place in society, statues erected to the losers of the war of Southern Insurrection (a war fought to preserve the institution of slavery).

And that’s not even the biggest news of the day.

That’s, of course, the Trumpworld sentencing docs for Manafort and Cohen.

tl;dr: Trump’s fucked (legal opinion as an unindicted coconspirator who directly conspired to break multiple federal laws).

The longer version is that Trump’s in so much trouble from so many directions that he doesn’t even know what to do next.

Let’s start with Cohen: Cohen’s docs show that Trump was actively seeking contact with the Russians in 2015 at the UNGA and directed Cohen to contact them - and Cohen lied to investigators about this point. Cohen indicated that contacts continued despite public statements to the contrary.

Then there’s the payoffs for Daniels and the other woman. Both were illegal, and enhanced sentencing was recommended because of how Cohen sought to disguise the payoffs from campaign finance and financial scrutiny (creating bogus front companies, phony invoices, etc.). Again, Trump is directly implicated here.

GOP spin can’t cover the criminality - the stench is too overwhelming, and the only question is what else Mueller has on everyone else in Trumpworld - from Pence and Junior and Ivanka on down. Because it’s increasingly likely that everyone is involved, including key GOP leadership and certain persons like Nunes, Chaffetz, and Rohrabacher.

“Individual 1” and the Principals in “the Company” really are kind of screwed, blued, and tattooed at this point.

Too bad, so sad. I can only imagine the legal team looks like a kicked-over red ant mound right about now.

GlutenFreeJesus Dec 7, 2018 • 4:09:12pm

Trumpster excuse number one that I’ve been seeing:

“ITS NOT ILLEAGLE TO B BISINESSMAN!”

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 4:09:27pm

I’m seeing Fuckface Von Clownstick’s Twitter feed for the first time today.

WHAT THE FUCK, HUH?!? I MEAN, WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?!?

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 4:09:56pm

re: #37 GlutenFreeJesus

Trumpster excuse number one that I’ve been seeing:

“ITS NOT ILLEAGLE TO B BISINESSMAN!”

No, but it is illegal to be an illegal businessman.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:11:29pm

the video:

“The thing that’s protecting the President from indictment” and “the only get out of jail free card he seems to be holding right now” appears to be…

“The one that says well I’m a President you can’t indict me, go home” - @neal_katyal pic.twitter.com/BUt5ba6BKq

— TheBeat w/Ari Melber (@TheBeatWithAri) December 7, 2018

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 4:11:41pm

re: #6 austin_blue

That’s not funny. Prison rape jokes are not funny.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:13:34pm

I must. https://t.co/apIM6Qi0Ff

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) December 7, 2018

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 4:13:51pm

Totally clears the President. Thank you!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

The nut actually thinks any of this exonerates him?

Who the fuck is he kidding besides his own know nothing bigot brigade base that is impervious to all facts and logic.

Trump was caught dead to rights in multiple federal felonies by the SDNY. Cohen’s sentencing docs explicitly implicate Trump in high crimes (aka felonies).

Only the lying GOP and their Fox mouthpieces are still going to stick with the nonsensical spin.

That’s all the GOP has now is spin, because the “law and order” president is about to be taken down by the rule of law.

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 4:14:41pm

I’d like to remind everyone what Russia was saying about Trump in August 2015. After I posted this image, @realDonaldTrump blocked me. pic.twitter.com/R7J1AXtrOR

— Clint Watts (@selectedwisdom) December 7, 2018

gocart mozart Dec 7, 2018 • 4:14:50pm

pic.twitter.com/rM4LGzyjJZ

— The Monkey’s Paw (@TheEdMix) December 7, 2018

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 4:15:53pm

Totally clears the President. Thank you!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

*Robert De Niro laughing maniacally in a movie theater showing “Problem Child” GIF* https://t.co/1eVtFi9y8F

— Charlie Vogel, aka His Teleness the Charlie Lama (@teleskiguy) December 8, 2018

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 4:16:11pm

It’s always striking how so many of these pro-Trump ranters who suddenly jump out of nowhere seem to have user names that are common first names followed by a string of random numbers.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

prairiefire Dec 7, 2018 • 4:16:15pm

re: #21 lawhawk

Favorited so I can try to sound intelligent when talking about this fruit salad of a situation.

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 4:16:29pm

re: #41 teleskiguy

That’s not funny. ~~Prison~~ rape jokes are not funny.

FTFY

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 4:19:52pm

re: #31 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Giphy

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 4:22:18pm

The Trumpists seem to be settling on “Trump did nothing wrong” as their talking point. Good luck with that.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 4:24:50pm

BREAKING: White House says Cohen, Manafort filings offer nothing new or damaging about Trump.

— The Associated Press (@AP) December 8, 2018

And another AP headline in their now-famous formula:

“White House says … [completely false claim, not noted as such]” https://t.co/iTSDkscQz3

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 4:25:07pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Did they READ the SDNY filing? They do realize that it explicitly names Individual-1 and all the illegal stuff that occurred involving him, including stuff that occurred at his explicit direction (which is a crime in itself, namely, conspiracy to commit).

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 4:26:00pm

re: #53 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

They don’t read anything. Except FOX Nation and Breitbart.

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 4:27:03pm

Totally clears the President. Thank you!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

The audacity of the lie is the point https://t.co/z2294a7ruk

— James Palmer (@BeijingPalmer) December 8, 2018

A hallmark of fascism.

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 4:27:29pm

plz reload #54 😑

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 4:27:36pm

Guys, I’m still catching up, but it looks like whoever this Individual-1 guy is is in deep shit.

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 4:28:18pm

re: #41 teleskiguy

That’s not funny. Prison rape jokes are not funny.

That wasn’t a joke, that was an aspiration.

That little shithead rammed a car into a group of humans protesting Nazis, for Dog’s sake, and I will bet you his only regret after the fact was, “Only one?!?!”.

Sorry, but I hope when he dies in prison his farts sound like the the soft death rattle of his victim’s last breath.

Again, sorry if I seem to be cold blooded, but I have no fucks to give for him.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:29:51pm

If it was up to me, I’d impeach this guy just for his repeated use of passive voice. https://t.co/9AAty15HW3

— Stonekettle (@Stonekettle) December 8, 2018

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 4:32:34pm

I really don’t think it needs to be said that if a filing such as this had ever been presented by the FBI during the Obama years, impeachment would have been the least of his worries.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:37:13pm

I forgot that he’s in Missouri talking to cops tonight.

Trump thinks he is in St. Louis when he is speaking in Kansas City. How could anyone expect him to understand the filings?

— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) December 8, 2018

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 4:38:33pm

re: #61 Backwoods_Sleuth

I forgot that he’s in Missouri talking to cops tonight.

[Embedded content]

So how about them Rams.//

prairiefire Dec 7, 2018 • 4:39:16pm

re: #61 Backwoods_Sleuth

Gheese Louise.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:40:40pm

Looks like he finally is placed in a straitjacket! #MUELLERFRIDAY https://t.co/rUMp7VsrYK

— Colin Tom (@ReporterPhoenix) December 8, 2018

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:41:39pm

Unlike with Manafort, the White House no longer claims the Cohen case has nothing to do with President Trump.

Instead, it asserts the new information — that federal prosecutors allege President Trump directed his lawyer to commit felonies — is “nothing of value.” https://t.co/YoXl7dUIoO

— Steve Reilly (@BySteveReilly) December 8, 2018

Eclectic Cyborg Dec 7, 2018 • 4:41:56pm

Why is Trump only referred to as “Individual 1” in the filings? Why can’t they name him?

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 4:42:59pm

re: #66 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is Trump only referred to as “Individual 1” in the filings? Why can’t they name him?

Flight risk. Don’t want to tip their hand.
//

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 4:43:21pm

re: #66 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is Trump only referred to as “Individual 1” in the filings? Why can’t they name him?

Think because he’s unindicted as of now.

KGxvi Dec 7, 2018 • 4:43:59pm

re: #10 rhuarc

Individual-1 is so fucked when the government finally catches up to them!

Seen on the twitterwaves:

Individual 1 doesn’t seem to know that he’s Individual 1

bd(Redacted) Dec 7, 2018 • 4:44:45pm

re: #66 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is Trump only referred to as “Individual 1” in the filings? Why can’t they name him?

They know how much Trump loves seeing his name in print, they’re just messing with him until he brags to everyone that Individual #1 is him

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 4:47:59pm

re: #69 KGxvi

Seen on the twitterwaves:

Individual 1 doesn’t seem to know that he’s Individual 1

he probably thinks it’s Hillary

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 4:48:18pm

Kinda fucked up that the woman running for President had her life scrutinized before the election, nothing was found, and she lost, but the man running for President was committing crimes DURING THE CAMPAIGN, won, and we’re only finding out about them now.

— scary lawyerguy (@scarylawyerguy) December 7, 2018

Media convinced she was going to win and trump didn’t stand a chance. Now acting like they had nothing to do with this. https://t.co/z9S9FnE6Id

— MizTori (@bosoxgaltori) December 7, 2018

MsJ Dec 7, 2018 • 4:49:09pm

Thread. Give it a read.

1. Everyone has some area of expertise. Mine is in corporate crime. I reported about it for 20 years at NY Times, wrote all or parts of 4 books about it, give lectures at biz schools and major corporations about it.

Which leads us to the Michael Cohen sentencing memo….

— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) December 8, 2018

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 4:49:43pm

re: #65 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And they’re continuing to go with “He’s a lying liar who’s totally lying!” as their defense.

whitebeach Dec 7, 2018 • 4:51:04pm

re: #70 bd(Redacted)

They know how much Trump loves seeing his name in print, they’re just messing with him until he brags to everyone that Individual #1 is him

He loves being identified as #1 no matter what. If they were really fucking with his head, they would have called him Individual 3467-C.

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 4:52:41pm

re: #75 whitebeach

He loves being identified as #1 no matter what. If they were really fucking with his head, they would have called him Individual 3467-C.

Soon to be Prisoner 3467-C.

Not likely, but one can dream.

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 4:58:53pm

Totally clears the President. Thank you!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

Except for that little part where the US Attorney’s Office says that you directed and coordinated with Cohen to commit two felonies. Other than that, totally scot-free. https://t.co/YXmgY9KmXi

— George Conway (@gtconway3d) December 8, 2018

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 4:59:04pm

In all the new material we have today, I keep noticing how much Cohen and Trump’s behavior resembles classic mob mentality; the way they discussed concealing things and hid stuff in shell corporations, etc.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

All to cover up the Don’s little indiscretions so he could be president.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 5:01:09pm

Bravo to this Judge who threw a drunk driver’s mom in jail for laughing at victim’s family in courtpic.twitter.com/4GoWr7JN8G

— laney (@misslaneym) December 6, 2018

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:01:11pm

re: #77 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

[Embedded content]

That’s Scott Free, George.//

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 5:07:54pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

That’s Scott Free, George.//

And don’t call me Shirley.

NO SMOCKING GUN! Dec 7, 2018 • 5:12:57pm

re: #9 fern01

21 years old - obviously the brain is lacking if he thought this was anyway a smart thing to do.

I find it really sad that the president*’s words and actions lead people to behave in this fashion. Maybe there is a smart enough lawyer around who can work up a case against trump - aiding and abetting.

Sadly no. You have to be much more specific than Trump has been.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:13:33pm

The Senate will vote on yet another nominee the American Bar Association rates “not qualified.” Jonathan Kobes, age 44, is nominated to a lifetime appointment to the Eighth Circuit. He’s never been a judge, has tried only SIX cases, and has argued only ONE appeal – 15 years ago.

— Sen Dianne Feinstein (@SenFeinstein) December 7, 2018

The American Bar Association said of Kobes: “None of the writing that we reviewed is reflective of complex legal analysis, knowledge of the law, or ability to write about complex matters in a clear and cogent manner — qualities that are essential for a circuit court judge.”

— Sen Dianne Feinstein (@SenFeinstein) December 7, 2018

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:15:36pm

re: #83 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Collins will be concerned and then meet with him.

gocart mozart Dec 7, 2018 • 5:15:45pm

Cool old Bowie interview

David Bowie Interview on Dick Cavett - 1974

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:18:22pm

.@RudyGiuliani told @cnn tonight that it’s BS to say that Cohen was talking to people close to the White House in 2017/2018, says the president only talked to him because he felt sorry for him.

But source of mine saw Cohen at Mar-a-Lago in March - and Cohen is not a member…

— Elizabeth Landers (@ElizLanders) December 8, 2018

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:20:55pm

re: #86 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Sure Rudy.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:20:57pm

On this day, we don’t remember the destruction of Pearl Harbor. We remember the selflessness Americans showed that day as they risked themselves to save their fellow servicemembers, and we remember the resilience that followed. To all who served and sacrificed, thank you.

— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) December 7, 2018

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 5:21:49pm

When will this house of cards finally collapse? I hope soon.

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 5:21:49pm

Should Trump be impeached? I am NO FAN of Trump (probably obvious) but I’ve been going back and forth on that with myself. But today I’m leaning more towards it than against - because if a crook like Donald Trump can’t be impeached, why even have this constitutional remedy?

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 5:22:07pm

re: #66 Eclectic Cyborg

Why is Trump only referred to as “Individual 1” in the filings? Why can’t they name him?

DOJ policy on naming individuals who are not yet indicted. See Rule 9-11.130.

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:23:02pm

re: #88 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Very well said.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:24:44pm

NEW: In speech to a pro-Confederate group, VA secretary Robert Wilkie praised Jefferson Davis as “a martyr to the Lost Cause” and “an exceptional man in exceptional age.”https://t.co/V3xGW5aTLp

— andrew kaczynski (@KFILE) December 7, 2018

These people were traitors to the United States and their ideological descendants are still mad they lost the war. https://t.co/wW6xdpcELi

— Pierre Omidyar (@pierre) December 8, 2018

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:26:10pm

You do NOT own that many crayons. #PINO https://t.co/VhtInCNHZa

— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) December 7, 2018

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:26:24pm

re: #93 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And the VA Secretary is addressing Neo Confederate groups, why?

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 5:27:12pm

Delete

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 5:27:53pm

Jacob Collier’s new album is out and it’s excellent—but as beautiful as many of the songs are, at the end of it I found myself wishing for more upbeat stuff. That’s a very minor criticism, though. I’ll be listening to it and finding new interesting bits for a while.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 5:27:58pm

Disregard #96, I’m getting all the pasty white guys in the admin all mixed up, thought we were still talking about Barr.

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:30:35pm

LOL…get a load of this hot take:

Tonight’s filings make abundantly clear how uncomfortable a position House Democrats, especially Jerry Nadler, will soon find themselves in.

— Nicholas Fandos (@npfandos) December 7, 2018

100

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 5:31:00pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

LOL…get a load of this hot take:

[Blank stare.]

…wut

101

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:31:42pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

LOL…get a load of this hot take:

[Embedded content]

Sure if that gets you through the night.

102

dangerman Dec 7, 2018 • 5:32:33pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Nixon basicslly did one thing..cover up a crime
And then further complicate the cover up

Trump has done multiple separate and unrelated illegal things with a sort of reckless abandon
Oh and premeditated
And with intent to hide them and keep them secret

103

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 5:33:46pm

If the founding fathers could have done stress testing of the impeachment process, a variable like Trump would have immediately shown the danger ahead.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

104

dangerman Dec 7, 2018 • 5:34:17pm

re: #95 HappyWarrior

And the VA Secretary is addressing Neo Confederate groups, why?

THAT by itself used to be enough to lose your job
Hell the president would have fired you himself

105

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 5:34:35pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

LOL…get a load of this hot take:

[Embedded content]

If he means they’ll be uncomfortable because they won’t know where to start with the list of crimes he’s either been accused of or implicated as knowing about, then he’s got a valid point.

On the other hand, if he thinks today’s filings mean the DNC got dealt a bad blow, then he’s out of his fucking gourd.

106

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 5:34:50pm

re: #104 dangerman

THAT by itself used to be enough to lose your job
Hell the president would have fired you himself

Yeah. There’s no reason for this.

107

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 5:37:01pm

re: #99 Backwoods_Sleuth

LOL…get a load of this hot take:

[Embedded content]

Forget it Jake! It’s the SCREW YORK TIMES!

108

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Dec 7, 2018 • 5:38:07pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

If he means they’ll be uncomfortable because they won’t know where to start with the list of crimes he’s either been accused of or implicated as knowing about, then he’s got a valid point.

On the other hand, if he thinks today’s filings mean the DNC got dealt a bad blow, then he’s out of his fucking gourd.

If you’re waiting for Q to ride in and magically save the day riding a majestic unicorn, I would remind the reader that Q was a capricious prick who liked to fuck with people just to see what would happen.

109

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 5:39:57pm

Trump: This is great. I’m exonerated….
MAGIOTS: Told you so. Trump said he’s exonerated, so that’s it.
SDNY: wut?

Everyone who knows anything about law and crime (and financial crimes in particular): What SDNY said.

1. Everyone has some area of expertise. Mine is in corporate crime. I reported about it for 20 years at NY Times, wrote all or parts of 4 books about it, give lectures at biz schools and major corporations about it.

Which leads us to the Michael Cohen sentencing memo….

— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) December 8, 2018

110

Eclectic Cyborg Dec 7, 2018 • 5:40:55pm

Even if Trump gets indicted (which may well not be possible for a sitting President), he’s still protected by the asshole Republicans in his cabinet and in the Senate.

111

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 5:41:02pm

112

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 5:42:39pm

re: #110 Eclectic Cyborg

Even if Trump gets indicted (which may well not be possible for a sitting President), he’s still protected by the asshole Republicans in his cabinet and in the Senate.

Every Republican Senator voting Trump Not Guilty will be committing political suicide. They will be fired in November 2020.

113

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:43:44pm

I think we can forget about the Norway Option: Lunde compares Britain to an abusive partner who spikes your drinks. https://t.co/vrqtcMoJmZ

— Billy Bragg (@billybragg) December 8, 2018

114

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 5:46:19pm

Reminds me of … pic.twitter.com/lDnAvsRo9z

— Noble (@howzer23) December 8, 2018

115

NO SMOCKING GUN! Dec 7, 2018 • 5:48:13pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

If he means they’ll be uncomfortable because they won’t know where to start with the list of crimes he’s either been accused of or implicated as knowing about, then he’s got a valid point.

On the other hand, if he thinks today’s filings mean the DNC got dealt a bad blow, then he’s out of his fucking gourd.

I can only guess that some candidates were saying that they weren’t going to DC to impeach Trump, but its going to get really hard not to with all the felonies he will be implicated in.

116

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 5:48:38pm

I miss those days.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

117

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 5:50:18pm

re: #112 Joe Bacon 🌹

In a just world? Absolutely.

The GOP has no shame and they think only of political power for themselves. Trump will continue to have 70-80% support among GOP. They’ll hold on in their strongholds - where they’ve managed to give themselves gerrymandered control as in places like WI, Carolinas, etc. In Congress, it’ll be a similar situation. They’ll hold on despite the clear and convincing evidence showing them complicit in Trump criminality by enabling and covering for Trump.

118

NO SMOCKING GUN! Dec 7, 2018 • 5:50:29pm

re: #112 Joe Bacon 🌹

Every Republican Senator voting Trump Not Guilty will be committing political suicide. They will be fired in November 2020.

The ones in purple states anyway.

119

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 5:51:36pm

If Great Grandpa was still alive he’d be raising hell with his fellow Wobblies and agitating for a General Strike.

120

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:52:43pm

Breaking: 9th Circuit denies government bid to reinstate asylum ban; ban remains blocked by @aclu ⁦⁦@splcenter⁩ ⁦@theCCR⁩ lawsuit pic.twitter.com/BjzVkFTebQ

— Omar C. Jadwat (@OmarJadwat) December 8, 2018

And here’s the dissent https://t.co/m37DGqz53s

— Omar C. Jadwat (@OmarJadwat) December 8, 2018

121

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 5:53:14pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Hamilton and the Founders didn’t think someone like Trump could ever get elected. Founders were polymaths, and likely thought that that trend would last.

They also didn’t envision Congress subservient to a corrupt WH that was bending and breaking the rule of law at every turn with zero oversight.

And yeah, they also thought the EC was the correct approach in voting for a president instead of direct elections.

122

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 5:54:20pm

Mueller says Cohen also provided the special counsel information about “certain discrete Russia-related matters core to its investigation” that he obtained by being in contact with Trump Organization executives. pic.twitter.com/Jc79EtDoJI

— Brad Heath (@bradheath) December 7, 2018

Below is a very telling statement. Mueller understands his core mission is investigating Russian collusion. He knows perjury, obstruction, etc. are serious felonies but not the core of his mission. He wouldn’t have used that phrase if he didn’t intend to deliver on his mission. https://t.co/g1HA9dgBV5

— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) December 8, 2018

123

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 5:55:59pm

“Behind every toe bean…” <- Is a murder mitten pic.twitter.com/9uMzXWH0NL

— Fluff Society (@FluffSociety) December 8, 2018

124

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 5:56:20pm

re: #122 jaunte

[Embedded content]

“But he didn’t say ‘collusion,’ so it’s game over, libruls!!!”

125

wrenchwench Dec 7, 2018 • 5:59:49pm

re: #123 Backwoods_Sleuth

[…a murder mitten.]

When my cats’ get like that, I trim them, cause those are mighty pokey.

126

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 6:00:52pm

If nothing else, the Trump era is showing how thoroughly corrupt and power-hungry the Republican Party is. Things are changing and ultimately, the GOP’s craven exploitation of Trump’s racist appeal is going to hurt them. Badly.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

127

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 6:02:35pm

*sigh* I may have to kill my cat.

Got ready to grab a quick nap before work, only to find the little shit has puked right in the middle of the bed (again) and it’s soaked all the way through to the mattress (again). So not only am I not getting a nap, but the mattress won’t be dry until long after I’ve left for work, so I’m going to have to remake the bed first thing after I get home in the morning.

128

NO SMOCKING GUN! Dec 7, 2018 • 6:05:23pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

*sigh* I may have to kill my cat.

Got ready to grab a quick nap before work, only to find the little shit has puked right in the middle of the bed (again) and it’s soaked all the way through to the mattress (again). So not only am I not getting a nap, but the mattress won’t be dry until long after I’ve left for work, so I’m going to have to remake the bed first thing after I get home in the morning.

Two words for you: mattress protector.

129

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 6:05:47pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yep. TBH I’ve never liked the GOP all that much but this is really all kinds of fucked up. I get that Trump hasn’t had Iraq and I don’t wish to diminish how bad Iraq was but this was collaborating with a hostile power in exchange for help in winning the Presidency.

130

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 6:05:59pm

NEWS ALERT: @RepCummings and @RepJerryNadler released the following statement after today’s closed-door interview with former #FBI Director #Comey.https://t.co/YNxp0K18Fp pic.twitter.com/v3kMYtdVYF

— House OversightDems (@OversightDems) December 8, 2018

131

PhillyPretzel Dec 7, 2018 • 6:06:18pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

Water-proof mattress cover.
amazon.com

132

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 6:08:29pm

re: #128 Big Beautiful Door

Two words for you: mattress protector.

re: #131 PhillyPretzel

Water-proof mattress cover.
amazon.com

Good ideas, but I’m thinking a cork stopper for his mouth might work just as well.

133

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 6:10:47pm

#SoulmateDealBreakers

They put ketchup on steak

— Jeremy’s Ghost (@dethbycofee2) December 7, 2018

134

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 6:11:39pm

I got this on Wednesday morning. It still makes me smile!

This needs to be said, your Twitter handle is amazing. pic.twitter.com/4t58ILME6n

— Big Sky Resort (@bigskyresort) December 5, 2018

135

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 6:13:01pm

Totally clears the President. Thank you!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

Feb ‘18: Nunes Memo leaves Trump in a worse position. He claims “vindication” https://t.co/lRLNRjURSH

June ‘18 DOJ inspector general makes Trump look worse. He claims “exoneration” https://t.co/pSHnHzOM9p

Dec ‘18: Prosecutors implicate Trump in a felony. He tells followers… https://t.co/6v1RVHWiSB

— Steve Benen (@stevebenen) December 8, 2018

136

dirkdigglerjr Dec 7, 2018 • 6:15:19pm

Getting ready for the predicted Snowpocalypse in Western NC. NWS says 16 inches of snow here in Trumpville, USA. The rubes and folks who should know better will blame it on the Libs … Sigh … At least we got a conviction today in Charlottesville and the clear and convincing proof that Trump and his cronies committed numerous felonies. Not that anyone in the current GOP will be willing to admit it.

137

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 6:15:38pm

Apparently Donny thinks if you use the alias “Individual-1,” then it can’t possibly be the ultimately successful presidential candidate who announced his campaign ‘15 and also owned the business that hired Cohen.

138

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 6:16:01pm

I think the big mistake some make is treating Trump like Generic Republican. And you know what, I get it? I’ve got more critical words for the past 50 years of GOP presidents than I do praise but this guy is uniquely rotten in his own way.

139

PhillyPretzel Dec 7, 2018 • 6:16:05pm

re: #135 lawhawk

He is about to be fitted with stainless steel bracelets and he says that. He is truly living in a fantasy world.

140

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 6:19:26pm

re: #136 dirkdigglerjr

Getting ready for the predicted Snowpocalypse in Western NC. NWS says 16 inches of snow

Beech and Sugar Mountain should have some good skiing! amirite?

141

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 6:20:15pm

re: #139 PhillyPretzel

He is about to be fitted with stainless steel bracelets and he says that. He is truly living in a fantasy world.

That’s wishful thinking, and he also thinks he’s above the law.

The DOJ is already signaling that they have enough to indict a sitting president. He can’t just claim this is the Mueller investigation since these financial crimes are being investigated by SDNY. These are the people who he put in those positions. This is Preet Bharara’s successor’s office.

Speaking of Preet:

Totally clears the President. Thank you!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 7, 2018

Tillerson was right. The president doesn’t read. https://t.co/6qVE8pd8eY

— Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara) December 8, 2018

142

PhillyPretzel Dec 7, 2018 • 6:23:01pm

re: #141 lawhawk

I read what Tillerson said about him in WaPo. To say the least it was not very flattering.

143

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 6:23:34pm

St. Louis, Kansas City, no difference…

President Trump praises crime fighting efforts “right here in St Louis” #TrumpInKC #KMBC pic.twitter.com/rBxi2ZYWX0

— Micheal Mahoney (@KCMikeMahoney) December 7, 2018

144

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 6:24:46pm

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

St. Louis, Kansas City, no difference…

[Embedded content]

He’s obviously senile.

145

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 6:29:14pm

re: #144 HappyWarrior

He’s obviously senile.

Considering how hard he was bearing down on that turd this morning, I’m surprised he hasn’t stroked out yet.

146

dirkdigglerjr Dec 7, 2018 • 6:31:26pm

re: #140 teleskiguy

Absolutely - potentially 2 feet of fresh snow up there. Shaping up to be a great ski season!

147

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 6:32:06pm

re: #112 Joe Bacon 🌹

Every Republican Senator voting Trump Not Guilty will be committing political suicide. They will be fired in November 2020.

Well 1/3rd of them, anyway, depending on who’s up for re-election. Two years makes you vulnerable.

The newbie R-Senators who got elected this cycle won’t be up until 2024. The other Senate cohort, not until 2022. Four to five years after voting “no” on a trial of Impeachment is a long time.

148

Jay C Dec 7, 2018 • 6:33:05pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

So Elijah and Jerry’s response as txt would be something like “why u wastin r time w/ this bullshit?” - which is a good question.

149

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 6:34:34pm

By the way, if you’re a gamer and haven’t seen or heard about it yet, Obsidian kicked Bethesda right straight in the gonads last night:

THE OUTER WORLDS Trailer (2019)

150

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 6:37:37pm

re: #146 dirkdigglerjr

Absolutely - potentially 2 feet of fresh snow up there. Shaping up to be a great ski season!

Is there pitches to ski snow that deep there? With those bald gentle slopes of Appalachia sounds like skiers/riders are getting stuck!

151

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 6:39:55pm

Friday Feelings … 🦜👇🏼😅 pic.twitter.com/J58JsjWoFd

— Stefano S. Magi (@StefanodocSM) December 7, 2018

152

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 6:41:38pm

The president’s plane is Air Force One.
The president’s helicopter is Marine One.
The president’s name is Individual 1.

— Paul Musgrave (@profmusgrave) December 8, 2018

153

Single-handed sailor Dec 7, 2018 • 6:43:01pm

context not necessary…

Not fit to lick Jimmy Page’s plectrum.

— Spider Stacy (@spiderstacy) December 7, 2018

If the plectrum is not contiguous with the taint, it very much ought to be. https://t.co/7e6qvtWCHY

— David Simon (@AoDespair) December 7, 2018

154

Backwoods_Sleuth Dec 7, 2018 • 6:45:02pm

If you thought Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham were Trump’s sycophants-in-chief, you haven’t met Franklin Graham. https://t.co/a9KXDKzHFj

— Peter Daou (@peterdaou) December 8, 2018

155

MsJ Dec 7, 2018 • 6:47:59pm

So cute!!

This is Indy. She just wanted to say hi. 13/10 hopes you say it back pic.twitter.com/aziKvUP9ck

— WeRateDogs™ (@dog_rates) December 8, 2018

156

Rocky-in-Connecticut Dec 7, 2018 • 6:48:16pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

One would hope.

But the possibility remains that American Democracy is so thoroughly compromised at this point and our Constitution so out of date that it combined with our overall population has been hacked by external and internal threats beyond repair. The autocrats may well be the end result of the era of nearly unlimited communication. Too much information to process, not enough critical thinking to go around.

157

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 6:48:37pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Try again Franklin. But I get it, you and Trump are a lot alike in that you’re both two losers who used their father’s name for fame without working a damn day.

158

Belafon Dec 7, 2018 • 6:53:22pm

re: #156 Rocky-in-Connecticut

One would hope.

But the possibility remains that American Democracy is so thoroughly compromised at this point and our Constitution so out of date that it combined with our overall population has been hacked by external and internal threats beyond repair. The autocrats may well be the end result of the era of nearly unlimited communication. Too much information to process, not enough critical thinking to go around.

Well, I’m going down fighting.

159

Belafon Dec 7, 2018 • 6:55:45pm

Just a reminder: today’s events have not happened for a third of the country until it shows up on Fox.

160

dirkdigglerjr Dec 7, 2018 • 6:58:05pm

re: #150 teleskiguy

They’ll find a way or have some great stories to tell about getting stuck. The biggest question will be how the skiers will get there. At least it is shaping up to be a good season for them.

161

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 6:58:37pm

re: #159 Belafon

Just a reminder: today’s events have not happened for a third of the country until it shows up on Fox.

I suppose they’re focused on the real outrage which is whatever Rupert decided it would be today.

162

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 6:59:36pm

re: #160 dirkdigglerjr

That sounds so *southern.* I love it!

163

Charles Johnson Dec 7, 2018 • 6:59:48pm

Here’s how Trump’s state network Fox News is covering the developments of the day. pic.twitter.com/IujTbS3EzB

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 8, 2018

164

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 7:00:01pm

re: #159 Belafon

Just a reminder: today’s events have not happened for a third of the country until it shows up on Fox.

And the story Faux is telling them is “There’s nothing there, Mueller got fooled by Cohen and Manafort, and the President* is looking more innocent by the moment!”

165

Belafon Dec 7, 2018 • 7:03:10pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

I suppose they’re focused on the real outrage which is whatever Rupert decided it would be today.

I have been talking to a guy up at work about the crap going on in NC, MI, and WI. He’s tired of hearing that it’s the GOP - when I mentioned the absentee voting, he tried getting on to the voters - but more importantly, he hasn’t heard of it before I tell him.

166

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 7:03:38pm

I love candles. They let us take an ancient, devouring force of nature that’s older than life and stick it in a little jar on the shelf. A candle is essentially a tiny, adorable pet god.

— Jarod K. Anderson (@JarodAnderson) December 8, 2018

167

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:03:39pm

re: #163 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

American Prada stay the hell away from me.

168

Single-handed sailor Dec 7, 2018 • 7:03:50pm

re: #159 Belafon

Just a reminder: today’s events have not happened for a third of the country until it shows up on Fox.

Still no Fox News Twitter since Nov 8.

169

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:04:17pm

re: #165 Belafon

I have been talking to a guy up at work about the crap going on in NC, MI, and WI. He’s tired of hearing that it’s the GOP - when I mentioned the absentee voting, he tried getting on to the voters - but more importantly, he hasn’t heard of it before I tell him.

That’s why ultimately while I don’t like the GOP base, I do blame the powers to be in and out of elected office for this stuff.

170

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:04:44pm

re: #164 Targetpractice

And the story Faux is telling them is “There’s nothing there, Mueller got fooled by Cohen and Manafort, and the President* is looking more innocent by the moment!”

What they’re doing is really dangerous.

171

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 7:05:01pm

re: #156 Rocky-in-Connecticut

One would hope.

But the possibility remains that American Democracy is so thoroughly compromised at this point and our Constitution so out of date that it combined with our overall population has been hacked by external and internal threats beyond repair. The autocrats may well be the end result of the era of nearly unlimited communication. Too much information to process, not enough critical thinking to go around.

I certainly hope not. The Constitution is meant to be auto-corrective. 1861-1865 is indicative, as is the Nixon era. Granted, the threats come from places the founders never anticipated and a President of which they couldn’t conceive, but let’s give the old Document the chance to swing the stick of checks and balances and see if it still has its mojo.

172

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 7:06:04pm

I feel like I am reliving the Watergate years all over again, but this time with 24/7 play-by-play.

173

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:07:00pm

re: #172 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I feel like I am reliving the Watergate years all over again, but this time with 24/7 play-by-play.

Two things, I hope we don’t get quick amnesia like we did in thoes years. And another, it just feels so much worse because at least Nixon’s agenda wasn’t all bad as President.

174

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 7:10:18pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Two things, I hope we don’t get quick amnesia like we did in thoes years. And another, it just feels so much worse because at least Nixon’s agenda wasn’t all bad as President.

Nixon had many faults, but at least he could manage to be halfway human in public settings. And in his twisted way, he was trying to leave a decent legacy as POTUS. I doubt Trump can think that far enough ahead to consider his legacy.

175

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:13:21pm

re: #174 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

Nixon had many faults, but at least he could manage to be halfway human in public settings. And in his twisted way, he was trying to leave a decent legacy as POTUS. I doubt Trump can think that far enough ahead to consider his legacy.

Absolutely.

176

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 7:13:59pm

re: #172 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I feel like I am reliving the Watergate years all over again, but this time with 24/7 play-by-play.

Fuckin’ fuck.

177

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:14:03pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

This is what we expect someone who received a million dollar bribe from Trump to tweet!

— The 3-D Zanti Regent (@josephebacon) December 8, 2018

178

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:16:45pm

re: #174 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

Nixon had many faults, but at least he could manage to be halfway human in public settings. And in his twisted way, he was trying to leave a decent legacy as POTUS. I doubt Trump can think that far enough ahead to consider his legacy.

Nope. Roger Ailes was his communications director. They set in motion the ditching of the Fairness Doctrine under Reagan, which led first to wingnut radio then FOX News Channel (under Roger Ailes).

Had Nixon the apparatus that wingnuts (which are the same as conservatives and always have been) have now, he would have done precisely the same.

Nixon was not some “kinder, gentler” Republican. His folks implemented the Southern Strategy to appeal to the racists who are now part of the Republican base.

179

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 7:17:12pm

What’s old is new again: pic.twitter.com/KsOV1doofL

— Michael Beschloss (@BeschlossDC) December 8, 2018

180

Belafon Dec 7, 2018 • 7:18:08pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Two things, I hope we don’t get quick amnesia like we did in thoes years. And another, it just feels so much worse because at least Nixon’s agenda wasn’t all bad as President.

Nixon was the beginning of the modern conservative movement. Trump should be the end, but because the inherent advantages conservatives have, the government will lag public standing.

181

Single-handed sailor Dec 7, 2018 • 7:19:58pm

China’s Chang’e-4 lunar probe, launched in the early hours of Saturday, is expected to make the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon, opening a new chapter in mankind’s lunar exploration. pic.twitter.com/Mm6hsbID2g

— People’s Daily,China (@PDChina) December 8, 2018

182

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 7:20:13pm

re: #176 teleskiguy

Fuckin’ fuck.

The Watergate news was in the background, but only in the newspaper and broadcast news. So it seemed glacial in comparison to modern Internet and Twitter coverage. Even so, there was a feeling that we were witnessing a constitutional crisis and that Nixon was sure to lose his office one way or another. Even my dad, the Nixon loyalist, soured on Tricky Dick leading up to the resignation.

Now I worry Trump will refuse to leave the White House and Congress will impeach but not try him.

183

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:20:55pm

re: #180 Belafon

Nixon was the beginning of the modern conservative movement. Trump should be the end, but because the inherent advantages conservatives have, the government will lag public standing.

I’d say Goldwater is the genesis TBH. But you’re right. The modern conservative movement just won’t die. Hopefully Trump’s victory was just a pyrrhic victory for them i the long run.

184

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:22:08pm

re: #180 Belafon

Nixon was the beginning of the modern conservative movement. Trump should be the end, but because the inherent advantages conservatives have, the government will lag public standing.

Well, except for Goldwater appealing to the John Birch Society and the Klan and White Citizens Councils (Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act, claiming it was excessive government overreach).

185

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 7:23:38pm

re: #172 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

I feel like I am reliving the Watergate years all over again, but this time with 24/7 play-by-play.

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Two things, I hope we don’t get quick amnesia like we did in thoes years. And another, it just feels so much worse because at least Nixon’s agenda wasn’t all bad as President.

The Internet is a big issue in this crisis. The amount of bulkshit (ht: Lawhawk), is just absurd. And it’s absolutely pervasive. Any provocateur with a keyboard is a King Of The World in this age of infowars- Russian, American, Chinese, whatever.

And it wasn’t Nixon’s agenda, it was his lack of respect for the law that made his Party turn against him. It was beyond the pale. He fucked the dog. That’s what made him resign.

I don’t see that integrity in Drumpf’s Party right now. I see a bunch cowards, desperate not to lose their positions, of apologists doing whatever they can for their funders (clients) to deflect what is becoming ever clearer. The President is a crime boss, a money-launderer, a conman, a thief, and a multiple felon.

Full stop.

186

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:24:27pm

I dunno. I think the real beginning could in fact even pre-date Goldwater. The modern dividing points on left and right to me seem to begin with McCarthyism. You see a lot of prominent conservatives in and out of politics who made their name in that era. Reagan, Schalfry, Cohn, Buckley, and others.

187

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:24:34pm

Barry Goldwater explaining his opposition to the Civil Rights Act (0:70) on William F. Buckley’s “Firing LIne.”

Barry Goldwater explains his vote against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Firing Line (1966)

188

Belafon Dec 7, 2018 • 7:25:35pm

re: #183 HappyWarrior

re: #184 Anymouse 🌹

I meant to say modern conservative presidents. You’re both right about Goldwater.

189

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:25:50pm

re: #185 austin_blue

The Internet is a big issue in this crisis. The amount of bulkshit (ht: Lawhawk), is just absurd. And it’s absolutely pervasive. Any provocateur with a keyboard is a King Of The World in this age of infowars- Russian, American, Chinese, whatever.

And it wasn’t Nixon’s agenda, it was his lack of respect for the law that made his Party turn against him. It was beyond the pale. He fucked the dog. That’s what made him resign.

I don’t see that integrity in Drumpf’s Party right now. I see a bunch cowards, desperate not to lose their positions, of apologists doing whatever they can for their funders (clients) to deflect what is becoming ever clearer. The President is a crime boss, a money-launderer, a conman, a thief, and a multiple felon.

Full stop.

I think you’re right and what is awful is there are none of the Republicans that urged Nixon to resign for the good of the party in the current Congressional GOP. We just have concern trolls like Rubio, Sasse, Collins, and others.

190

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 7:26:08pm

re: #178 Anymouse 🌹

Nope. Roger Ailes was his communications director. They set in motion the ditching of the Fairness Doctrine under Reagan, which led first to wingnut radio then FOX News Channel (under Roger Ailes).

Had Nixon the apparatus that wingnuts (which are the same as conservatives and always have been) have now, he would have done precisely the same.

Nixon was not some “kinder, gentler” Republican. His folks implemented the Southern Strategy to appeal to the racists who are now part of the Republican base.

On a scale of scumbuckets Nixon is still marginally better than Trump. He was antidemocratic and power hungry but he did manage to achieve some positive things. Trump has achieved nothing of value to the nation. I am not a Nixon apologist, but you compare him to Trump Nixon still was a better president. Damning with faint praise there.

191

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:26:21pm

re: #188 Belafon

I meant to say modern conservative presidents. You’re both right about Goldwater.

Ah okay then definitely I would agree since I feel Ike could have been nominated by either party and won.

192

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:27:25pm

re: #190 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

On a scale of scumbuckets Nixon is still marginally better than Trump. He was antidemocratic and power hungry but he did manage to achieve some positive things. Trump has achieved nothing of value to the nation. I am not a Nixon apologist, but you compare him to Trump Nixon still was a better president. Damning with faint praise there.

I also think with fairness that it does our present reality a great disservice to act like all Trump’s Republican predecessors were cut from the same. Don’t get me wrong. Fuck Nixon very much but so much of what Trump is doing is without parallel in our history.

193

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:27:49pm

re: #190 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

On a scale of scumbuckets Nixon is still marginally better than Trump. He was antidemocratic and power hungry but he did manage to achieve some positive things. Trump has achieved nothing of value to the nation. I am not a Nixon apologist, but you compare him to Trump Nixon still was a better president. Damning with faint praise there.

Well, at least in polling James Buchanan is not rated the worst President any more so there’s that.

194

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:29:49pm

re: #193 Anymouse 🌹

Well, at least in polling James Buchanan is not rated the worst President any more so there’s that.

It takes some serious effort to be worse than Buchanan. Buchanan is my 19th century worst POTUS winner. Coolidge wins for the 20th. I like Harding- surprisingly decent Civil Rights record and Hoover- feel he was in way over his head with the Depression and set in old ways but not without some redeemable qualities (see his effort with famine relief in the aftermath of the Russian Civil War.)

195

wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam Dec 7, 2018 • 7:30:23pm

re: #193 Anymouse 🌹

Well, at least in polling James Buchanan is not rated the worst President any more so there’s that.

If they could, all the deceased presidents can now breathe a sigh of relief than no longer can they be considered failures in office. Trump has established a new nadir.

196

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:32:09pm

Wonkette goes into the sentencing guidelines today with their usual alacrity.

Part of that, from $5 Feminist:

It is impossible to overstate how FUCKING FURIOUS the prosecutors at SDNY are with Michael Cohen as a lawyer. Were he a plumber, they would probably go a lot easier on him. But this is a guy who had tangled with the FEC before when he first tried to foist That Orange Idiot on America in 2012. He knew damn well that those pornstar payoffs were against the law, and he didn’t give a shit.

wonkette.com

197

William Lewis Dec 7, 2018 • 7:33:45pm

re: #153 Single-handed sailor

context not necessary…

[Embedded content]

Well, I did need context so i tracked it back. I’ll still defend side A of the first Boston album (several words there that no longer mean much, alas) as being near the top of the hard rock/pop music made in the 70’s. The Who and The Clash were both much greater bands but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t a real reason that Boston ruled the airwaves for a chunk of time - three of them, I’d say.

198

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:33:56pm

re: #195 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

If they could, all the deceased presidents can now breathe a sigh of relief than no longer can they be considered failures in office. Trump has established a new nadir.

He has no real accomplishments. Gorsuch and Kavanaugh aren’t accomplishments especially Gorsuch who was wrapped up for him by McConnell.

199

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Dec 7, 2018 • 7:34:56pm

re: #195 wheat-dogg, raker of forests, master of steam

If they could, all the deceased presidents can now breathe a sigh of relief than no longer can they be considered failures in office. Trump has established a new nadir.

Fuck, Nixon isn’t even in the top five of Worst Presidents™ any more. You’ve got Reagan, Trump, both Bushes, Buchanan….

200

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:36:28pm

re: #199 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Fuck, Nixon isn’t even in the top five of Worst Presidents™ any more. You’ve got Reagan, Trump, both Bushes, Buchanan….

You need to put Pierce in there or Silent Cal.

201

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:37:46pm

Folks keep asking why conservative voters vote against their own interests. Case in point. The answer for these folks is “tax cuts” are their interest, not equal treatment.

Log Cabin Republicans Leader Characterizes Trump’s Attacks on the LGBTQ Community as ‘Hiccups’https://t.co/ajyjZ38Rss pic.twitter.com/TNYH6TjEvb

— @𝘿𝘾𝙃𝙤𝙢𝙤𝙨 (@DCHomos) December 8, 2018

202

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:39:00pm

re: #201 Anymouse 🌹

Folks keep asking why conservative voters vote against their own interests. Case in point. The answer for these folks is “tax cuts” are their interest, not equal treatment.

[Embedded content]

Is there any group more useless than the LCR?

203

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:39:31pm

re: #199 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Fuck, Nixon isn’t even in the top five of Worst Presidents™ any more. You’ve got Reagan, Trump, both Bushes, Buchanan….

My five worst are Trump, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Dumbya and Pruneface Reagan.

204

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Dec 7, 2018 • 7:41:57pm

re: #203 Joe Bacon 🌹

My five worst are Trump, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Dumbya and Pruneface Reagan.

Yeah, my ellipsis at the end was with me thinking of Johnson and Coolidge. Didn’t think of Pierce like HW suggested, but I’ll take his word for it.

205

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:42:26pm

My bottom 5 would be: Trump, Pierce, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and W Bush. Dishonorable mention to Reagan who is the one I definitely think history needs to re-evaluate.
My top 5 is tougher: Washington, Lincoln, and FDR for the top 3 but can’t figure the last two. I’d probably go with TR and Truman though.

206

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:42:51pm

re: #201 Anymouse 🌹

Folks keep asking why conservative voters vote against their own interests. Case in point. The answer for these folks is “tax cuts” are their interest, not equal treatment.

[Embedded content]

Easy. Log Cabin Republicans greed and selfishness TRUMPS everything else

207

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:43:39pm

re: #204 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Yeah, my ellipsis at the end was with me thinking of Johnson and Coolidge. Didn’t think of Pierce like HW suggested, but I’ll take his word for it.

Pierce a lot like Buchanan but in some ways worse for his actions during the Civil War. You guys have probably seen me call Justice Roberts a doughface in reference to his bs rulings on the VRA, that comes from what Pierce was called for his repeated sympathy with the slave owning states.

208

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:43:59pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

My bottom 5 would be: Trump, Pierce, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and W Bush. Dishonorable mention to Reagan who is the one I definitely think history needs to re-evaluate.
My top 5 is tougher: Washington, Lincoln, and FDR for the top 3 but can’t figure the last two. I’d probably go with TR and Truman though.

Top 5 for me are Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Lyndon Johnson.

209

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 7:44:52pm

Oh, the horror. Peanut Zombies. https://t.co/dgva00aMYw pic.twitter.com/KzHiKT0AV0

— Cliff Pickover (@pickover) December 8, 2018

210

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:45:45pm

He deserves all the crap he gets for Vietnam but LBJ is underrated. And I hate to say it as I gaze at my vintage Kennedy for President poster and coming from a family that loved JFK since he was the first Irish-American and Catholic President but JFK is overrated though in some senses, I believe underappreciated too. The handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis was his finest hour and proved beyond a doubt that the voters were right in 1960.

211

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 7:46:26pm

Pretty sure this is my first AOC tweet/retweet or otherwise.

Environmental justice isn’t solely about climate change.

Just look at:
- Flint water
- Bronx air
- Appalachian mining towns
- Fed response to Hurricanes María+Katrina

To see that economic and social inequity plays out everywhere - including air + water. https://t.co/JeeEJd3N27

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@Ocasio2018) December 8, 2018

Salt Lake City air quality. https://t.co/0kI3GJ8cxx

— Photo-John (@Photo_John) December 8, 2018

212

Sionainn, Fierce Mother Dec 7, 2018 • 7:47:34pm

re: #208 Joe Bacon 🌹

Top 5 for me are Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Lyndon Johnson.

I don’t know about Johnson. I’ve been watching the Ken Burns’ Vietnam series and I wasn’t impressed with Johnson whatsoever.

213

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:47:46pm

re: #208 Joe Bacon 🌹

Top 5 for me are Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Lyndon Johnson.

LBJ’s mess up in Vietnam takes him out of the Top 5 for me but I definitely agree with you that he is underappreciated. And I love Truman. My grandfather always had great things to say about him. The Korean War story is always told that the grunts hated when Truman fired that egomaniac MacArthur but Grandpa loved Truman for it and feels it saved his life. And I’m named after him. Plus Truman was also a class act to my distant cousin Mike Strank’s family when he visited Johnstown during the 1948 re-election campaign.

214

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:50:02pm

I think even though I don’t like a lot of what he did(the war with Mexico was definitely illegal) but Polk is underrated. I think it’s in part because he was a one termer who died not long after he left office. And the more I learn the more I like Grant the President and disagree with the long held narrative that U.S. Grant was only successful in war. He did a great job taking on the KKK and was sincere in his committment to Reconstruction. Not a great President but not a failure.

215

Ace-o-aces Dec 7, 2018 • 7:50:23pm

Plus if you love Russia it proves to your haters you aren’t racist. Russians are almost never all the way white.

— Jacob Wohl’s #1 Fan (@WohlFan) December 8, 2018

216

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:51:22pm

re: #212 Sionainn, Too Exhausted to be a Nasty Devilbitch

I don’t know about Johnson. I’ve been watching the Ken Burns’ Vietnam series and I wasn’t impressed with Johnson whatsoever.

Look at LBJ for his domestic vision. He really was trying to accomplish what FDR wanted with the New Deal but for Americans of all racial backgrounds and I think he would have suceeded if not for Vietnam. Not a particularly admirable guy but no President in the past 100 years has understood basic human political psychology better than Lyndon Baines Johnson.

217

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 7:51:40pm

Mrs. Buchanan is #1, Drumpf is #2 (with a bullet!), Hoover is #3.

We are now at 4.5” in the last thirty hours in the rain gauge with another two inches or so coming at us from the south:

radar.weather.gov

Heavy Weather seems to be more common. Wonder why?

Must be a Chinese Hoax.

Fucktard ostriches.

218

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 7:52:09pm

Want to know something funny? The number of my tweets and the number of my comments at LGF is almost the same.

219

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:52:19pm

re: #215 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

This is hilariously stupid even for Jacob.

220

Sionainn, Fierce Mother Dec 7, 2018 • 7:53:18pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I agree about you on a lot of domestic stuff, but he isn’t in my top 5.

221

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:53:58pm

re: #220 Sionainn, Too Exhausted to be a Nasty Devilbitch

I agree about you on a lot of domestic stuff, but he isn’t in my top 5.

Nor mine either. I’d put TR ahead of him.

222

lawhawk Dec 7, 2018 • 7:54:41pm

Bottom 5 (pre Trump)?

Nixon, Andrew Johnson, Fillmore, Taylor, Jackson

I think all the pre-Lincoln presidents who punted or excused slavery enabled the war of southern insurrection, and Johnson went out of his way to prevent a proper accounting by the South for their insurrection.

We’re still living with the repercussions of that to this day.

Trump jumps to the worst of the worst, as his scandals and criminality take every single crisis/scandal by every prior admin - combines it into one huge scandal of epic proportions, and dumbs it even further.

Dubya is up there, but behind those 5.

Top 5? That’s a harder question, but think
Washington, Lincoln, FDR are easy top 3, and you can argue each merits top spot. Washington gets the nod because he set the bar so high and was setting precedent with every action. Truman and Eisenhower are up there as well.

223

Jay C Dec 7, 2018 • 7:55:09pm

re: #210 HappyWarrior

He deserves all the crap he gets for Vietnam but LBJ is underrated. And I hate to say it as I gaze at my vintage Kennedy for President poster and coming from a family that loved JFK since he was the first Irish-American and Catholic President but JFK is overrated though in some senses, I believe underappreciated too. The handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis was his finest hour and proved beyond a doubt that the voters were right in 1960.

Interesting point (though I’m of the opinion that Kennedy and his Administration have been consistently overrated: sentiment and nostalgia generally winning out over hard historical analysis). I’ve always wondered how Nixon would have handled the Bay of Pigs invasion if he had won in 1960: that, IMO ,was the trigger event that led directly to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Had Operation Pluto succeeded, there would have been no missiles in Cuba to spark a crisis. History would have been bloodily altered, of course; but it’s still an interesting alt- timeline

224

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:55:37pm

Wilson was one I used to rate higher but I’ve come to really dislike Wilson despite definitely being a bit of a Wilsonian on FP. The catch is I’m more a Wilsonian than Wilson was. Wilson’s belief in sovereignty for the nations didn’t extend to the former Asian and African colonies and he wasn’t too big on it for countries like the UK where he was positively inclined to because of his educational and ancestral background. Plus he definitely set race relations back big time.

225

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 7:56:06pm

I tweeted this up at the ski area today.

George Washington forced the resignation of his second Secretary of State, Edmund Randolph, out of suspicion that Randolph had a compromising and scandalous secret relationship with a foreign power (France): pic.twitter.com/EiesUK0XAf

— Michael Beschloss (@BeschlossDC) December 7, 2018

226

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:57:06pm

re: #223 Jay C

Interesting point (though I’m of the opinion that Kennedy and his Administration have been consistently overrated: sentiment and nostalgia generally winning out over hard historical analysis). I’ve always wondered how Nixon would have handled the Bay of Pigs invasion if he had won in 1960: that, IMO ,was the trigger event that led directly to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Had Operation Pluto succeeded, there would have been no missiles in Cuba to spark a crisis. History would have been bloodily altered, of course; but it’s still an interesting alt- timeline

Fair points but wasn’t Bay of Pigs pretty much put in JFK’s hands not long after he became President? But I agree with you about the Kennedy administration as a whole. I do think he had the potential to be great but I think a lot of what he gets credit for are things LBJ did.

227

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:57:38pm

The reason I would put Johnson in the #5 slot is because he stood up to Wallace. In 1964 Wallace ran in the Democratic primaries and he got a sizable chunk of the Democratic primary vote in Maryland. Wisconsin and Indiana. Wallace demanded that Johnson back down on Civil Rights and Johnson said repeatedly he would NEVER back down.

Wallace really tore into Johnson when LBJ actually spoke “We Shall Overcome” in a Congressional speech. LBJ was really blasted over that but he stood his ground.

228

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:58:55pm

re: #222 lawhawk

Bottom 5 (pre Trump)?

Nixon, Andrew Johnson, Fillmore, Taylor, Jackson

I think all the pre-Lincoln presidents who punted or excused slavery enabled the war of southern insurrection, and Johnson went out of his way to prevent a proper accounting by the South for their insurrection.

We’re still living with the repercussions of that to this day.

Trump jumps to the worst of the worst, as his scandals and criminality take every single crisis/scandal by every prior admin - combines it into one huge scandal of epic proportions, and dumbs it even further.

Dubya is up there, but behind those 5.

Top 5? That’s a harder question, but think
Washington, Lincoln, FDR are easy top 3, and you can argue each merits top spot. Washington gets the nod because he set the bar so high and was setting precedent with every action. Truman and Eisenhower are up there as well.

I’d replace Taylor with Pierce LH. I think Taylor was probably one of the less bad pre-Lincoln lead-upepers. Hard to argue with what you’re arguing though ehre.

229

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 7:59:04pm

re: #224 HappyWarrior

Wilson was one I used to rate higher but I’ve come to really dislike Wilson despite definitely being a bit of a Wilsonian on FP. The catch is I’m more a Wilsonian than Wilson was. Wilson’s belief in sovereignty for the nations didn’t extend to the former Asian and African colonies and he wasn’t too big on it for countries like the UK where he was positively inclined to because of his educational and ancestral background. Plus he definitely set race relations back big time.

Grandma Bacon worked in the Navy Department during World War 1. Grandma told me the only reason she got that job was that Wilson purged all the African-Americans from the Civil Service.

230

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 7:59:39pm

re: #227 Joe Bacon 🌹

The reason I would put Johnson in the #5 slot is because he stood up to Wallace. In 1964 Wallace ran in the Democratic primaries and he got a sizable chunk of the Democratic primary vote in Maryland. Wisconsin and Indiana. Wallace demanded that Johnson back down on Civil Rights and Johnson said repeatedly he would NEVER back down.

Wallace really tore into Johnson when LBJ actually spoke “We Shall Overcome” in a Congressional speech. LBJ was really blasted over that but he stood his ground.

Absolutely. And frankly he was much more bold than Kennedy was on Civil Rights which is amazing considering his background.

231

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 8:00:16pm

I’m sad this didn’t take off.

pic.twitter.com/FMZiWina4s

— Charlie Vogel, aka His Teleness the Charlie Lama (@teleskiguy) December 7, 2018

232

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:01:40pm

re: #229 Joe Bacon 🌹

Grandma Bacon worked in the Navy Department during World War 1. Grandma told me the only reason she got that job was that Wilson purged all the African-Americans from the Civil Service.

Damn. BTW were your grandparents Debs people in that era? No idea about my family. I have a Pittsburgh professional biography that describes my paternal grandfather’s father as a Republican and my dad’s cousin told me my paternal grandmother’s father disliked Truman but he never told me for what reasons. Mom’s grandparents were Eastern European immigrants and pretty radical in that they loved FDR and John L. Lewis.

233

Belafon Dec 7, 2018 • 8:02:25pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

Absolutely. And frankly he was much more bold than Kennedy was on Civil Rights which is amazing considering his background.

And you know the story of how he helped Jewish kids get into the country before WW2, I presume.

Vietnam will be a hard knock against him. As Japanese internment will be against FDR.

234

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:02:38pm

While I don’t have him in my bottom 5. I’m looking forward to more serious scholarship of Reagan that isn’t boosted by people with Reagan memberberries.

235

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:02:49pm

re: #208 Joe Bacon 🌹

Top 5 for me are Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Lyndon Johnson.

Mine would be Washington, Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, and Obama.

236

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:03:26pm

re: #231 teleskiguy

It makes more sense to put a wall around the Russian Embassy so you can’t get into it to ask for asylum after you’re impeached and indicted!

— The 3-D Zanti Regent (@josephebacon) December 8, 2018

237

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:03:55pm

re: #233 Belafon

And you know the story of how he helped Jewish kids get into the country before WW2, I presume.

Vietnam will be a hard knock against him. As Japanese internment will be against FDR.

No, actually, I was not aware of that. Good man. I think LBJ in regards to Vietnam did what most of the people who would have been elected President in that era did so while I certainly criticize him for it, I don’t come down as hard on him as I do FDR for the internment.

238

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:04:14pm

Scrubbed, rescheduled for tomorrow evening

Details for tomorrow’s launch! Launch is planned for 12/8, 8:06 pm PT. The broadcast starts at 7:46 pm PT. Follow our live updates at https://t.co/wLoggekye0 pic.twitter.com/tg2jQzP6Ff

— ULA (@ulalaunch) December 8, 2018

239

Jay C Dec 7, 2018 • 8:04:46pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Fair points but wasn’t Bay of Pigs pretty much put in JFK’s hands not long after he became President? But I agree with you about the Kennedy administration as a whole. I do think he had the potential to be great but I think a lot of what he gets credit for are things LBJ did.

Yes: the Cuban invasion was planned in Ike’s Administration, and responsibility handed over to Kennedy and his people pretty much as soon as they were installed. The whole crux of the Bay of Pigs operation was whether or not the US would directly intervene: Eisenhower wanted to avoid that event (as did Kennedy, ultimately): I’ve always wondered if Nixon would have stayed as “hands-off” if he’d been President.

240

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:05:39pm

re: #239 Jay C

Yes: the Cuban invasion was planned in Ike’s Administration, and responsibility handed over to Kennedy and his people pretty much as soon as they were installed. The whole crux of the Bay of Pigs operation was whether or not the US would directly intervene: Eisenhower wanted to avoid that event (as did Kennedy, ultimately): I’ve always wondered if Nixon would have stayed as “hands-off” if he’d been President.

Nixon fascinates me so much. There’s so much about him that makes me want to hate the guy but some stuff that I really do admire too(most of it pre 1968 obviously).

241

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 8:07:42pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Fair points but wasn’t Bay of Pigs pretty much put in JFK’s hands not long after he became President? But I agree with you about the Kennedy administration as a whole. I do think he had the potential to be great but I think a lot of what he gets credit for are things LBJ did.

JFK got tagged with the Bay of Pigs (set up by the CIA under Ike) just like Clinton got blamed for Waco (set up by the ATF under Bush 41). Both occurred just after they came into office (Cuba by 90 days, and the machinery was in motion, Waco by just weeks after Clinton was inaugurated and- did you know this?- the acting Attorney General was Stuart Gerson, who was a holdover from the Bush Administration. Janet Reno was NOT the AG when Waco was initiated.)

242

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:09:01pm

re: #241 austin_blue

JFK got tagged with the Bay of Pigs (set up by the CIA under Ike) just like Clinton got blamed for Waco (set up by the ATF under Bush 41). Both occurred just after they came into office (Cuba by 90 days, and the machinery was in motion, Waco by just weeks after Clinton was inaugurated and- did you know this?- the acting Attorney General was Stuart Gerson, who was a holdover from the Bush Administration. Janet Reno was NOT the AG when Waco was initiated.)

Did not know that. Makes the blaming of Reno I see in popular myth all the more upsetting. I did know that Waco was something planned long before Bill became PResident though.

243

Joe Bacon 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:10:32pm

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Damn. BTW were your grandparents Debs people in that era? No idea about my family. I have a Pittsburgh professional biography that describes my paternal grandfather’s father as a Republican and my dad’s cousin told me my paternal grandmother’s father disliked Truman but he never told me for what reasons. Mom’s grandparents were Eastern European immigrants and pretty radical in that they loved FDR and John L. Lewis.

Yes Great Grandpa and Grandpa were Socialists during that time. What is interesting is that up thru the start of World War 1 there was an actual Socialist Party that elected a significant chunk of local officeholders. Wilson and his AG Palmer went after them when was declared. After the war and the Russian Revolution, Palmer had his famous raids carried out by his deputy J Edgar Transvestite which effectively destroyed the Socialist Party.

244

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:10:42pm

Trump is going to prison.

That is now certain.

He will be tried and convicted based on what we learned today alone.

Whether that’s in the next two years or when he leaves office, it is now certain that Trump will be imprisoned.

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) December 8, 2018

We are about two weeks away from Republicans privately realizing their best chance to avoid disaster in 2020 is by throwing Trump overboard as fast as possible.

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) December 8, 2018

Just to add to this, wait until people like Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio start fantasizing about running in 2020 with Trump gone.

Et tu, Brute. The knives will come out. https://t.co/PJWzdZF4np

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) December 8, 2018

245

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:11:11pm

If I have one disappointment with Truman who I generally like a bit is his judicial legacy could have been better and I think he could have done more on corruption. However, where I give him strong points is foreign policy and domestic policy especially Civil Rights.

246

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:12:43pm

re: #243 Joe Bacon 🌹

Yes Great Grandpa and Grandpa were Socialists during that time. What is interesting is that up thru the start of World War 1 there was an actual Socialist Party that elected a significant chunk of local officeholders. Wilson and his AG Palmer went after them when was declared. After the war and the Russian Revolution, Palmer had his famous raids carried out by his deputy J Edgar Transvestite which effectively destroyed the Socialist Party.

I remember reading somewhere that SP-USA was one of the few Socialist parties that consistently stayed opposed to the war. The European ones. Their nationalism eventually got the better in several cases. I was reading Guns of Augsut the other day and Taubman made the point that the German workers hatred of the Slavs pretty much overrode their natural pacifism and belief in Socialism.

247

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:16:32pm

From 8AM this morning:

Print pooler all star @cam_joseph spotted Matt Whitaker boarding Marine 1 with Kushner.

— Tierney Sneed (@Tierney_Megan) December 7, 2018

Might explain some of Donald Trump’s meltdown on Twitter.

Betcha there’s no outrage from the GOP over this.

248

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:17:36pm

re: #241 austin_blue

JFK got tagged with the Bay of Pigs (set up by the CIA under Ike) just like Clinton got blamed for Waco (set up by the ATF under Bush 41). Both occurred just after they came into office (Cuba by 90 days, and the machinery was in motion, Waco by just weeks after Clinton was inaugurated and- did you know this?- the acting Attorney General was Stuart Gerson, who was a holdover from the Bush Administration. Janet Reno was NOT the AG when Waco was initiated.)

re: #242 HappyWarrior

Did not know that. Makes the blaming of Reno I see in popular myth all the more upsetting. I did know that Waco was something planned long before Bill became PResident though.

To be fair. Janet Reno was not the AG when the ATF conducted the initial raid on the Branch Davidians’ compound. But, she had been in office over a month when the compound was burnt to the ground (Apr 18, 1993). The raid occurred a week and a half (Feb 28, 1993) before she took over (Mar 11, 1993).

249

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:17:40pm

I do lol wish I could figure out if my Great Grandfather whose last name I share was a Progressive TR type or conservative Taft type. Part of me leans towards the latter because he was a banker and part of a lot of those old timey groups like the Masons that the reformers were less likely to join. And I have an article about his father being part of an anti-prohibition group. It is kind of funny though that his son ended up being a huge liberal and indirectly one of the reasons why I am though. I like to think that my grandfather marrying a young woman from a more modest background may have made him more open minded to the plight of the working class than his siblings who as far as I know from my dad were more conservative.

250

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:18:48pm

re: #248 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Yo be fair. Janet Reno was not the AG when the ATF conducted the initial raid on the Branch Davidians’ compound. But, she had been in office over a month when the compound was burnt to the ground (Apr 18, 1993). The raid occurred a week and a half (Feb 28, 1993) before she took over (Mar 11, 1993).

That’s what we’re seeing. When I see Waco discussed, Reno gets blamed and what Austin and now you’re pointing out is that she wasn’t even AG when the raid happened.

251

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:21:26pm

Ruby Ridge also gets pinned on the Clinton administration too. Now TBF I know the militia nuts hated President H.W. Bush too but that shit would have never taken off the way it did had he won a second term.

252

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Dec 7, 2018 • 8:22:36pm

re: #243 Joe Bacon 🌹

Yes Great Grandpa and Grandpa were Socialists during that time. What is interesting is that up thru the start of World War 1 there was an actual Socialist Party that elected a significant chunk of local officeholders. Wilson and his AG Palmer went after them when was declared. After the war and the Russian Revolution, Palmer had his famous raids carried out by his deputy J Edgar Transvestite which effectively destroyed the Socialist Party.

In the NC-09 discussion, while we’re talking about Congress simply refusing to seat what’s-his-name, let’s remember there’s precedent—the ten Socialist congressmen that Congress refused to seat in 1916. Some of them were reelected, and I think two were elected again in 1920, so their Districts had no representation for six years.

253

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:24:59pm

re: #251 HappyWarrior

Ruby Ridge also gets pinned on the Clinton administration too. Now TBF I know the militia nuts hated President H.W. Bush too but that shit would have never taken off the way it did had he won a second term.

It also helped that Ronald Reagan positioned himself as a “Sagebrush Rebel” over public lands (as in privatise them).

A good portion of the Sagebrush Rebellion was made up of former Posse Comitatus sovereign citizen wingnuts.

254

teleskiguy Dec 7, 2018 • 8:25:42pm

UNOFFICIAL REPORT: Entire Mountain Town Stoked To Do Drugs, Watch Washed Up Jam Bands https://t.co/hbpIV2429R via @UnofficialNet

— Charlie Vogel, aka His Teleness the Charlie Lama (@teleskiguy) December 8, 2018

255

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:25:59pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

That’s what we’re seeing. When I see Waco discussed, Reno gets blamed and what Austin and now you’re pointing out is that she wasn’t even AG when the raid happened.

Yeah, but Reno isn’t really blamed for questionable justifications for the warrant or the 4 agents and 6 Davidians killed in the raid. She’s blamed for the 76 Davidians killed when the compound burnt

256

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:26:12pm

re: #252 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

In the NC-09 discussion, while we’re talking about Congress simply refusing to seat what’s-his-name, let’s remember there’s precedent—the ten Socialist congressmen that Congress refused to seat in 1916. Some of them were reelected, and I think two were elected again in 1920, so their Districts had no representation for six years.

There is much more recent precedent, including a NH representative in the Seventies and a couple senators, the latest in the last decade (from Illinois corrupt governor appointment over Barack Obama’s seat).

257

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:26:51pm

re: #255 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Yeah, but Reno isn’t really blamed for questionable justifications for the warrant or the 4 agents and 6 Davidians killed in the raid. She’s blamed for the 76 Davidians killed when the compound byrnt

Ah ok. See what you mean.

258

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Dec 7, 2018 • 8:26:56pm

re: #248 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Yo be fair. Janet Reno was not the AG when the ATF conducted the initial raid on the Branch Davidians’ compound. But, she had been in office over a month when the compound was burnt to the ground (Apr 18, 1993). The raid occurred a week and a half (Feb 28, 1993) before she took over (Mar 11, 1993).

If I were President and learned that this nut cult was stockpiling weapons like that, I would never have endangered any ATF agents, I would have called in an air strike right then and there.

259

sagehen Dec 7, 2018 • 8:28:04pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

My bottom 5 would be: Trump, Pierce, Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, and W Bush. Dishonorable mention to Reagan who is the one I definitely think history needs to re-evaluate.
My top 5 is tougher: Washington, Lincoln, and FDR for the top 3 but can’t figure the last two. I’d probably go with TR and Truman though.

My top 5 is Lincoln, Grant, both Roosevelts, and Eisenhower. They did lots of good stuff, and their mistakes were few.

Truman was great, Adams (both of them), I still like Ford and Bush the Elder — their records are more complicated, but I still think the things they did right outnumber the things they didn’t. Jefferson is problematic — I love his writing, and the Louisiana Purchase was epic, but everything about his personal life sucks so bad it diminishes him.

260

GlutenFreeJesus Dec 7, 2018 • 8:28:17pm

Just got back from seeing Bohemian Rhapsody. Believe the hype.

261

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:29:17pm

re: #253 Anymouse 🌹

It also helped that Ronald Reagan positioned himself as a “Sagebrush Rebel” over public lands (as in privatise them).

A good portion of the Sagebrush Rebellion was made up of former Posse Comitatus sovereign citizen wingnuts.

Reagan is someone who I really want academics born after he left to analyze him more. I think he’s the most overrated and it’s not close. As unethical as Nixon but with less real domestic accomplishments. Managed to be more likable than any prominent Republican since Ike which really isn’t much of an accomplishment.

262

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:31:01pm

re: #259 sagehen

My top 5 is Lincoln, Grant, both Roosevelts, and Eisenhower. They did lots of good stuff, and their mistakes were few.

Truman was great, Adams (both of them), I still like Ford and Bush the Elder — their records are more complicated, but I still think the things they did right outnumber the things they didn’t. Jefferson is problematic — I love his writing, and the Louisiana Purchase was epic, but everything about his personal life sucks so bad it diminishes him.

Grant in the top 5, wow. Agree with you about Jefferson. It’s hard to reconcile the reality with what he wrote.

263

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 8:31:11pm

re: #196 Anymouse 🌹

Wonkette goes into the sentencing guidelines today with their usual alacrity.

Part of that, from $5 Feminist:

wonkette.com

The entire theory of the defense’s case after today rests on the idea that Mueller has been taken for a ride by his “star witnesses” and so is coming down on them with a sledgehammer in an effort to cover for his total lack of evidence. That they both wasted his time leading him down a blind alley and now he’s so angry that he’s getting ready to send them away for long stretches at Club Fed.

“But wait,” you may ask, “how does this square with their assertions the other day that Mueller’s recommendation that Flynn serve no time meant he’d lied his ass off to avoid jail time?” It doesn’t at all, kids, but we’ve proven time and again that wingnuts are fully capable of keeping multiple contradictory thoughts going in their heads at the same time.

264

Targetpractice Dec 7, 2018 • 8:35:36pm

265

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 8:36:14pm

re: #263 Targetpractice

…wingnuts are fully capable of keeping multiple contradictory thoughts going in their heads at the same time.

They’re hooked up to a 24-hour addling device:

CNN: Manafort lied about Russia
NBC: Manafort lied about Russia
ABC: Manafort lied about Russia
CBS: Manafort lied about Russia
FOX NEWS: pic.twitter.com/0tDzySiKSa

— Soviet Sergey (@SovietSergey) December 7, 2018

266

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 8:39:48pm

re: #265 jaunte

They’re hooked up to a 24-hour addling device:

Didn’t FOX do the panda bear sex before? Are they doing it again or is this recycling an old screen shot?

267

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:39:56pm

re: #265 jaunte

They’re hooked up to a 24-hour addling device:

[Embedded content]

George Soros paid pandas to protest a pistol permit law didn’t he?

268

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Dec 7, 2018 • 8:40:42pm

re: #245 HappyWarrior

If I have one disappointment with Truman who I generally like a bit is his judicial legacy could have been better and I think he could have done more on corruption. However, where I give him strong points is foreign policy and domestic policy especially Civil Rights.

I was raised to idolize Truman, but my god, the Witches’ Sabbath of stupidity in 1947-8 that landed us in the situation we’re in now! Unilaterally declaring the Cold War with the Truman Doctrine, unilaterally starting the arms race when it was realized that the Army had (parts for) 13 atomic bombs and no plans to make any more soon, deciding after insisting on the breakup of the British Empire that we had to help the French regain their colonial empire in Southeast Asia, deciding to assist and bankroll the occupation of Palestine instead of carving a Jewish state from the territory of Germany…it just goes on and on.

269

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 8:41:13pm

re: #248 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Yo be fair. Janet Reno was not the AG when the ATF conducted the initial raid on the Branch Davidians’ compound. But, she had been in office over a month when the compound was burnt to the ground (Apr 18, 1993). The raid occurred a week and a half (Feb 28, 1993) before she took over (Mar 11, 1993).

David Koresh routinely went to a C-Store down the way from the compound to buy beer and cigarettes. The Feds could have picked him up anytime for underage fucking and weapons violations. But the ATF went in under a Republican temp AG and got the shit shot out of them. At that point the die was cast.

They thought they could play really bad music at them and get them to surrender, but they didn’t realize they were ultimately dealing with a Jim Jones suicide cult. They attacked the compound, the cultists set it on fire, and they killed a bunch of kids.

And the Feds, rightly, ended up looking like a bunch of idiots, with bigger guns and more firepower. They used tanks to tear the walls down before the fires were set.

Neo-nazis loved the result. So did Alex Jones. White Supremicist’s wet dreams came true.

It was a disaster for the Federal Government. Waco is, in no small part, a reason where we are today. Make no mistake.

270

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 8:42:18pm

re: #268 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

I was raised to idolize Truman, but my god, the Witches’ Sabbath of stupidity in 1947-8 that landed us in the situation we’re in now! Unilaterally declaring the Cold War with the Truman Doctrine, unilaterally starting the arms race when it was realized that the Army had (parts for) 13 atomic bombs and no plans to make any more soon, deciding after insisting on the breakup of the British Empire that we had to help the French regain their colonial empire in Southeast Asia, deciding to assist and bankroll the occupation of Palestine instead of carving a Jewish state from the territory of Germany…it just goes on and on.

Fair points.

271

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 8:42:32pm

re: #266 Anymouse 🌹

I think it’s recycling, but it’s hard to tell.

272

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 8:43:24pm

Poe’s Law infiltrates Fox reruns.

273

prairiefire Dec 7, 2018 • 8:45:09pm

re: #272 jaunte

They need a very handsome crow as an anchorman.

274

jaunte Dec 7, 2018 • 8:46:05pm

How is a chyron reading PANDAS EXPOSED not a parody?

275

mmmirele Dec 7, 2018 • 8:52:11pm

re: #211 teleskiguy

Pretty sure this is my first AOC tweet/retweet or otherwise.

[Embedded content]

Salt Lake City air indeed! It was bad enough when I lived there in the 1990s-early ’00s. The stationary inversions made the air awful and there were days/weeks when Salt Lake City was colder (teens-twenties) than Park City (thirties). It’s worse now. Utah is what happens when you have majority Republicans in charge. I’d also note that the dominant church is unhelpful in this matter, preferring to spend its time meddling with the legislature on overturning a medical marijuana measure that was passed by the people instead of working on the environment.

276

prairiefire Dec 7, 2018 • 8:54:31pm

Colorized “Its A Wonderful Life” looks fantastic.

277

austin_blue Dec 7, 2018 • 8:57:25pm

Little pause in the deluge, the gauge is at 5.00”.

Average rainfall for December is a little over 2”. Historical max is 6.27”. Hold my beer.

278

FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀 Dec 7, 2018 • 9:01:22pm

Sure, it’s not gonna happen. And, Trump doesn’t own the competition any more.
But, you just know that if she won, Dotard would say/tweet something epically stupid

A transgender contestant is favored to win Miss Universe. Cue the conservative outrage. https://t.co/0NYn6uU9QW pic.twitter.com/0sW3lxF2by

— ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) December 8, 2018

279

Eclectic Cyborg Dec 7, 2018 • 9:04:45pm

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

St. Louis, Kansas City, no difference…

[Embedded content]

The Simpsons - Hello St. Louis!

280

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 9:05:20pm

re: #258 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

If I were President and learned that this nut cult was stockpiling weapons like that, I would never have endangered any ATF agents, I would have called in an air strike right then and there.

Well, after Ruby Ridge and Waco inspired the attack on the Oklahoma City Federal Building, the FBI took the approach of “we’ll flip people for information and then trick them to come outside.”

They used that approach successfully after the Montana Freedman incident, and also with Bunkerville and Malheur Wildlife Refuge (though sadly they did not get as many convictions as they should have at the last event).

Note those two did not incite terrorism on the scale the Posse Comitatus and other groups like them did.

281

HappyWarrior Dec 7, 2018 • 9:05:56pm

re: #278 FormerDirtDart 🍕🐀

Sure, it’s not gonna happen. And, Trump doesn’t own the competition any more.
But, you just know that if she won, Dotard would say/tweet something epically stupid

[Embedded content]

I see Ben Shapiro is whining. Does he ever not miss an opportunity not to be a transphobic loser who cannot get over that transgendered women are better people than he will ever be?

282

Hecuba's daughter Dec 7, 2018 • 9:08:34pm

Here is a link to ranking of Presidents by presidential politics experts:

nytimes.com

Reagan ranks higher than he should due to love by Republicans and Independents.

283

The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge Dec 7, 2018 • 9:18:56pm

re: #282 Hecuba’s daughter

Here is a link to ranking of Presidents by presidential politics experts:

nytimes.com

Reagan ranks higher than he should due to love by Republicans and Independents.

Reagan is still far and away the worst President, in terms of damage to the country and society in general. If tRump wasn’t going to be hampered by a Democratic House, in one full term he might approach that.

284

Anymouse 🌹 Dec 7, 2018 • 9:34:11pm

… deleted by author …

Spy Auto

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