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16 comments

1 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:38:05am
It seems like Assange is accomplishing his desired effect on governance...

And to you, this is a good thing?

2 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:39:38am

Of course the government is going to do everything possible to stop this kind of monkey wrenching. Did you expect otherwise?

It's nothing but colossal hubris to believe this is going to "destroy the conspiracy." That language itself is ridiculous.

3 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:56:27am

re: #1 Charles

And to you, this is a good thing?

To me, it is most of all an interesting thing to read about. Concerning good and bad: It's certainly not a good thing for the government (lots of money wasted on sociologists, psychiatrists and happy pills) and those who are in need of its services.

re: #2 Charles

Of course the government is going to do everything possible to stop this kind of monkey wrenching. Did you expect otherwise?

It's nothing but colossal hubris to believe this is going to "destroy the conspiracy." That language itself is ridiculous.

Just trying to understand Assange. By the way, the phrase "destroy the conspiracy" is from zunguzungu's analysis of Assange's writings that I indirectly linked. I think it's a fairly accurate descriptive explanation of Assange's reasonings, though. I think it's not the language, that is ridiculous. It's the anarchistic utopia that is obviously the implicit goal that is ridiculous.

4 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 1:59:37pm

re: #3 000G

Why don't you ever actually say that when you make your posts about Assange? What is it that makes you post things in a way that the easiest possible interpretation is that you're in favor?

I mean, aside from the times when you clearly are in favor.

5 BishopX  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:33:41pm

re: #4 Obdicut

Why does he need to preface every comment about wikileaks with his disagreement with Assange's goals?

6 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 2:58:59pm

Executions will continue until morale improves. /

7 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 3:03:07pm

re: #5 BishopX

Why does he need to preface every comment about wikileaks with his disagreement with Assange's goals?

He doesn't. That's not what I said.

8 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:17:30pm

re: #4 Obdicut

Why don't you ever actually say that when you make your posts about Assange? What is it that makes you post things in a way that the easiest possible interpretation is that you're in favor?

I mean, aside from the times when you clearly are in favor.

I really don't feel responsible for preemptively countering your predjudices about me. Sorry.

9 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Jan 5, 2011 10:22:11pm

I mean: If you want to interpret my commentary and reporting as me "being in favor" then so be it. That's certainly not what I said, but I also certainly won't say that I'm not each time that I post about it, just so that you will not come to that conclusion that is so easy for you. Again: Sorry.

10 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 2:19:22am

re: #9 000G


That is also not what I'm saying. And I am in no way prejudiced about you. You have posted numerous things on Wikileaks and Assange, and my views on you are based on those, not on prejudice. Please don't use the word when it doesn't apply; it's a rather loaded one.

It is not some bizarre notion of mine that people make their own stance clear when they're editorializing on a subject, as you did here. It is common goddamn sense.

11 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 2:26:36am

re: #10 Obdicut

That is also not what I'm saying. And I am in no way prejudiced about you. You have posted numerous things on Wikileaks and Assange, and my views on you are based on those, not on prejudice. Please don't use the word when it doesn't apply; it's a rather loaded one.

Why don't you ever actually say that when you make your posts about me? What is it that makes you post things in a way that the easiest possible interpretation is that I should accompany all of my posts about Assange or WikiLeaks with a disclaimer that I am not in favor?

It is not some bizarre notion of mine that people make their own stance clear when they're editorializing on a subject, as you did here. It is common goddamn sense.

Okay, fair enough: It is not bizarre (although I never said that, I just implied it was uncalled for). But you apparently misjudged what my stance was, even though it seemed "clear" through "common goddamn sense". To avoid possible future misunderstandings, I have editorialized my recent postings about Witchcraft and Exorcism with a disclaimer so that it's made "clear" that I do not endorse the subject that I write about.

12 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 2:35:59am

PS: If you want to have a serious discussion about my "stance" on WikiLeaks or your opinion of what my "editorializing" ammounts to, I am willing to engage in that, as long as it consists of more than essentially speculatory accusations.

13 researchok  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 7:49:25am

I'm glad you posted this.

It clarifies just how deep the potential damage Assange may do.

Government transparency is not a zero sum game, an all or nothing proposition. There are times openness is good necessary and there are times it is not. Posting these cables in no way gives us the 'bigger picture'. We do not know context, long term strategies,how strategies must take allies and third parties into account, etc., etc. It is very clear that at times the government must be free to negotiate without the fear having their activities made public. For example, negotiating hostage releases or negotiating for the release of hijacked ships. Negotiations in the Middle East are another good examples when discretion is most advised.

I do believe the conversation about openness and transparency needs to be had on an ongoing basis. That said, I can't agree the blanket release of information that may be harmful to ourselves and others is always a good idea.

14 Obdicut  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 9:08:08am

re: #11 000G

Why don't you ever actually say that when you make your posts about me? What is it that makes you post things in a way that the easiest possible interpretation is that I should accompany all of my posts about Assange or WikiLeaks with a disclaimer that I am not in favor?

Just being a smartass isn't really going to do anything.

But you apparently misjudged what my stance was, even though it seemed "clear" through "common goddamn sense". To avoid possible future misunderstandings, I have editorialized my recent postings about Witchcraft and Exorcism with a disclaimer so that it's made "clear" that I do not endorse the subject that I write about.

Why are you being petulant about this, and why are you pretending that I was the only one who 'misjudged' your stance?

Your stance in this thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Is where I'm coming from. Diminishing the importance of the release of information that was used by a would-be-dictator to attack his opposition.

If you are being constantly misunderstood, you should really consider the idea that the problem lies with you, and not everyone that you're talking to.

15 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 12:36:54pm

re: #14 Obdicut

Just being a smartass isn't really going to do anything.

Okay.

Why are you being petulant about this, and why are you pretending that I was the only one who 'misjudged' your stance?

I wasn't pretending or saying you were the only one who had misjudged me, but that you were the only one (so far) who misjudged me while at the same time asserting that my stance (the one you had misjudged) was "clear" and that the conclusion you had come to was supported by "common goddamn sense".

And I am not being "petulant". I was just trying to demonstrate what your argument ammounted to. Sorry if that came across as "petulant".

Your stance in this thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Is where I'm coming from. Diminishing the importance of the release of information that was used by a would-be-dictator to attack his opposition.

Yes, I did not agree with the argument that the author of that article was making. Was not agreeing with that the editorializing that turned me into a WikiLeaks fanboy?

Again, JFTR: I am not pro-WikiLeaks. I am not rooting for a "team". I have no interests in "teams". I am interested in arguments. I am interested in dissecting and seeing the whole story. I have no stock in this other than intellectual curiosity.

If you are being constantly misunderstood, you should really consider the idea that the problem lies with you, and not everyone that you're talking to.

No, I don't think it's "everyone that I am talking to". Since you imply that the problem "lies with me", I am inclined to respectfully point out, though, that you had a recent history of misattributing statements to me that I never made. I also want to point out, equally respectfully, that I do not hold any anti-US sentiments and I wish suspicions of that could be avoided in talking about WikiLeaks.

16 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jan 6, 2011 9:58:11pm

Being bipolar, I can only think this will lead to a witch hunt for mentally ill individuals with high security clearance.

Not everyone with occasional suicidal ideation is a threat to national security assholes. I hate myself but I love my country god damn it.


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