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1 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 2:28:42pm

Arutz Sheva has also gone full-on batshit Birfer.

Think Progress also had an article which accused Israeli Ultra-Orthodox Jews of being behind the anti-Islamic film "Third Jihad" but then the article was edited to removed the Anti-Semitic overtones, which in turn led to shrieks that ThinkProgress was buckling under to Zionist overlords.

It's getting ugly out there.

2 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 2:31:42pm

re: #1 Alouette

Arutz Sheva has also gone full-on batshit Birfer.

Think Progress also had an article which accused Israeli Ultra-Orthodox Jews of being behind the anti-Islamic film "Third Jihad" but then the article was edited to removed the Anti-Semitic overtones, which in turn led to shrieks that ThinkProgress was buckling under to Zionist overlords.

Oh, FFS.

It's getting ugly out there.

Yeah, it's really starting to creep me out big time.

3 researchok  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 3:04:45pm

Welcome to the world of identity politics, where accepting pre scripted, mindless drivel is the litmus test of loyalty and ideological foundation.

'We'll think for you', is their mantra. 'If you support us, you are all in' is another ticket for admission to the group, tribe, family, etc.

The last thing these agendistas will tolerate is independent thinking. Why? Because if you take away the extremes you have grounds for compromise and change- and that renders the extremists of either side irrelevant.

And for them, that is not tolerable, no matter who has to pay for the political dysfunction and no matter what it costs.

I support Israel because I believe it is the moral thing to do. The Palestinians- and the entire Arab world, for that matter- are the biggest victims of decades long Arab world dysfunction.

However, that is for the Arab world to fix.

I will not support Israeli policies that will in the end, prolong Arab world misery or incite or reinforce Arab world dysfunction.

Clearly, a few words cannot convey the message but while Gingrich' support of Israel is laudable, it is not 'at all costs' or 'no matter what'. He has no carte blanche.

Criticism of some Israeli policies is perfectly acceptable. Antisemitism, calls for genocide or racism is not.

Criticism of Israel does not make her adversaries any more acceptable- unless they earn that status.

And therein lies the brass ring.

Israel, like every other nation- including the Palestinians and the Arab world- must earn that morality every day.

Unfortunately, the extremists of all sides are taking center stage now.

4 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 3:07:23pm

Meanwhile NY Post wrote an article about a Hasidic synagogue in Brooklyn cracking down on swarms of beggars inside the building, getting all their information from hateblogger FailedMessiah. That would be like getting information about Muslims from Pam Geller.

5 Bob Levin  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 5:11:52pm

This is why we're not a proselytizing religion. We say, hang out for a year, are you sure you want to get into the middle of all of this?

Yes, many of the barriers and restrictions have come down. I hear tell that Jewish guys are in big demand on dating sites. But the 'otherness' never fully goes away. One always hears the code words--whether on the right, or the new one that seems to originate from the left, 'Israel Firster'. But that's just a riff on the dual loyalty charge, or the Jews (Israel) is exerting some magical influence on the US government. Riffs on an age old charge.

The country always seems to have a Big Bad Jew, or several. Some actually earn the title--the Rosenbergs, the Madoffs. Some earn the title by becoming the elephant Jew in the room, such as Hollywood in the studio era, which sparked the activities of HUAC after WWII. But that means the momentum was gathering years before the end of the war. It looks like Sheldon Adelson is moving into this role, as George Soros has lost his luster.

I mean, I hear what you're saying, about things being hinky. Let's take another look at this after the election, for a better measurement. I think the right is going to be clobbered, and that is definitely going to change the discourse. And if I'm wrong, then we've still got a lot to go over, but it will be different.

6 dragonfire1981  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 5:17:50pm
Why should I care if I’m not a Jew? Well, first of all because feeding bigotry and conspiracy theories is just plain wrong, no matter who does it. Perhaps more importantly, it’s dangerous—especially when the target is a large group of people who happen to share a particular ethnicity or religion, and who also happen to be a minority in the country in which they’re being targeted.

This is how I feel as well. I am not Jewish but have a tremendous respect for Israel and the Jewish people. I have never understood anti-semitism and certainly don't believe Jews are actively engaged in secret work aimed at taking over the world.

I believe Israel has a right to exist. I believe Israel has a right to democracy and freedom.

I also think it's impossible to keep foreign interests out of U.S. politics, especially Israel. We are one of their staunchest and strongest allies. They are going to involve themselves, whether we like it or not.

I'd also like to nominate this article for a front page promotion. It's an excellent piece on a very important topic.

7 freetoken  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 7:25:00pm

Thanks for writing this. You've clearly kept your eye on the ball.

I'll just note that the US is now over 310 million people, and there are not enough identify-with-Israel-at-all-costs Jews in this country to be any sort of threat to US autonomy, governance, or economics, though as you point out the anti-semites lurking about certainly want to portray the evil-Jew as controlling the world and US policy (this, btw, is why I'm leery of the term "bankster" and the rabid criticism of TARP coming from camps like Ron Paul.)

Rather, it is the Dispensationalist evangelicals and fundamentalist Christians (and by now most of them are dispensationalist in some form) in this country to whom Newt Gingrich is playing, and from whom Adelson is expecting to get some sort of payoff for spending millions on Gingrich. This is why Newt, now in a couple of "debates", claims he will unilaterally move the US embassy to Jerusalem. He is playing on the end-of-the-world fantasies of the dispensationalists. End-of-the-world fantasies that are, I will point out, themselves anti-semitic in a subtly perverse way.

However, I really do think this country will reject the war mongering atavism of Newt and his friends.

I hope.

8 What, me worry?  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 7:45:55pm

re: #5 Bob Levin

That was good! Especially "elephant Jew in the room" lol

The thing I would add is the assumption that Caroline Glick speaks for all Jews in the diaspora, American or otherwise. She's thumbing her nose at the huge contributions made by ZOG, Haddasah, B'nai Brith, the Birthright program, all Young Judea's programs (all long time American Jewish organizations) and countless others that bring old and young American Jews to Israel. Their millions of dollars in funding and programs mean nothing to her?

The whole hubbub about how young American Jews do not like/support Israel or have been taught not to like/support Israel by their self-loathing anti-Zionist (how insulting can Glick get anyway??) is quite hogwash. There's been other studies done recently - this month, that show similar figures. I don't know what purpose Glick has for repeating these lies about Zionists and what Zionism means to American Jews.

I can love and support Israel, and feel my heart belongs there (I do) while simultaneously supporting my mother country. Wow! Imagine that! That doesn't classify me as a sell out, Israel-firster or whatever anti-Semitic tripe someone calls it.

I will not vote Republican. I never did before, I'm not starting now. I'm to compromise everything I believe in? Freedom and justice for all races, women, children and the elderly? That wouldn't make me much of a Jew or a person, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry Glick doesn't seem to get that.

9 What, me worry?  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 8:15:05pm

re: #7 freetoken

All this blowhard crap about moving the embassy. We were supposed to move it decades ago, but it won't be moved until Israel is able to do it (duh). It's about their security, not U.S. presidential candidates garnering votes. Bush and Clinton said it, too. Obama did not, but declared Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel. Newt needs to shut the hell up about it.

More about the issue here.

I don't know Adelson's story or why he's supporting Newt. I do know they've given 100s of millions of dollars to Jewish causes which is a good thing to do.

10 What, me worry?  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 8:16:25pm

re: #8 marjoriemoon

Eeps.. that should be ZOA - Zionist Organization of America (not ZOG).

11 Flavia  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 10:18:09pm

re: #8 marjoriemoon

I wanted to showcase what you said ---

I can love and support Israel, and feel my heart belongs there (I do) while simultaneously supporting my mother country. Wow! Imagine that! That doesn't classify me as a sell out, Israel-firster or whatever anti-Semitic tripe someone calls it.

I will not vote Republican. I never did before, I'm not starting now. I'm to compromise everything I believe in? Freedom and justice for all races, women, children and the elderly? That wouldn't make me much of a Jew or a person, as far as I'm concerned.

--- because you said it so beautifully.

& I wanted to make another point: I honestly do not think America's (or, if you will, Obama's) support for Israel is actually less than historically (his predecessors'). I think it's the overall climate that has changed, and made American's (or Obama's) simply seem lesser.

12 Flavia  Sun, Jan 29, 2012 10:19:22pm

(&, speaking of "said it beautifully" - HECK of an article, Curious Lurker!!)

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 1:28:49am

re: #10 marjoriemoon

Eeps.. that should be ZOA - Zionist Organization of America (not ZOG).

Best. Typo. Ever. //

14 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 3:40:45am

re: #8 marjoriemoon

the huge contributions made by ZOG

BWAHAHAA!

15 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 7:32:27am

re: #5 Bob Levin

I mean, I hear what you're saying, about things being hinky. Let's take another look at this after the election, for a better measurement. I think the right is going to be clobbered, and that is definitely going to change the discourse. And if I'm wrong, then we've still got a lot to go over, but it will be different.

I hope you're right. I'm probably worrying needlessly, but this election cycle has me rattled because, mockery aside, it's very disturbing to see a major political party go completely off the rails like the GOP has done. Even more disturbing is watching a significant portion of the base cheer it on. It's sort of like watching a historical drama where the crowds are whooping in enjoyment over some awful blood sport like gladiator fights or feeding Christians to the lions. Creepy.

the elephant Jew in the room

Ditto what Marjorie said—that one's a keeper. ;o)

16 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 8:21:19am

re: #3 researchok

Welcome to the world of identity politics, where accepting pre scripted, mindless drivel is the litmus test of loyalty and ideological foundation.

'We'll think for you', is their mantra. 'If you support us, you are all in' is another ticket for admission to the group, tribe, family, etc.

The last thing these agendistas will tolerate is independent thinking. Why? Because if you take away the extremes you have grounds for compromise and change- and that renders the extremists of either side irrelevant.

And for them, that is not tolerable, no matter who has to pay for the political dysfunction and no matter what it costs.

This. It's like it's a big game to the political class, punditocracy, and bloggers. It was unsettling to watch the process:

Story breaks. Lefty blogger runs with it because it makes the right-wing look bad. Right-wing intercepts it and turns it around, making the left look bad. More right-wing bloggers pile on, magnifying things. More lefty blogs join the fray in defense. The extreme elements on both sides see an opportunity join in the game, causing it to drag out for weeks. The far-right (having their own reasons for supporting Israel) knows that the stuff about Zionist conspiracies is irresistible red meat for the far-left, so they happily throw out big new chunks of it to them. The far-left snaps up the bait. Things start to quiet down, but now the MSM has taken note and seen an opportunity, so they breathe new life into it and here we are.

I'm angry at both sides because everyone is so blinded by partisanship and winning the this week's framing war/talking points that NO ONE seems to care who they might harm in the process. I believe that the politicians & media would happily turn the American left & right into some effed up version of the Middle East conflict if they thought they could benefit from it.

17 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 8:38:32am

re: #8 marjoriemoon

I will not vote Republican. I never did before, I'm not starting now. I'm to compromise everything I believe in? Freedom and justice for all races, women, children and the elderly? That wouldn't make me much of a Jew or a person, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry Glick doesn't seem to get that.

Well said. Glick's nasty little screed really pissed me off. WTF? Who in the hell does she think she is that she should insult American Jews like that and presume to tell them how to think and what choices they have to make? I know she was ragging on all diaspora Jews too, but it was her attack on Americans that made me twitch. It was like, "Step the hell off. I might not agree with them on everything, but those are MY Jews you're dissing now. Go pick on someone else, you snarky jackass."

18 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 8:42:11am

re: #7 freetoken

Rather, it is the Dispensationalist evangelicals and fundamentalist Christians (and by now most of them are dispensationalist in some form) in this country to whom Newt Gingrich is playing, and from whom Adelson is expecting to get some sort of payoff for spending millions on Gingrich. This is why Newt, now in a couple of "debates", claims he will unilaterally move the US embassy to Jerusalem. He is playing on the end-of-the-world fantasies of the dispensationalists. End-of-the-world fantasies that are, I will point out, themselves anti-semitic in a subtly perverse way.

Thanks for articulating that, especially the last bit. I knew it was anti-Semitic in another (right-wing) way also, but I couldn't quite describe what I was sensing. You nailed it.

19 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 8:44:45am

re: #6 dragonfire1981

I'd also like to nominate this article for a front page promotion. It's an excellent piece on a very important topic.

re: #12 Flavia

(&, speaking of "said it beautifully" - HECK of an article, Curious Lurker!!)

Thank you. ;)

20 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 9:27:46am

*Hangs head in shame* lol

21 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 9:46:23am

re: #11 Flavia

I wanted to showcase what you said ---

--- because you said it so beautifully.

& I wanted to make another point: I honestly do not think America's (or, if you will, Obama's) support for Israel is actually less than historically (his predecessors'). I think it's the overall climate that has changed, and made American's (or Obama's) simply seem lesser.

Thanks :)

I'm really convinced at this point that beating on Obama about Israel is more about hating Obama, than him hating Israel. I found a wonderful video highlighting Obama's support for Israel and even better, comments from Israeli politicians praising Obama's support for Israel - and now I can't find it. I hate when I don't bookmark.

22 What, me worry?  Mon, Jan 30, 2012 9:58:39am

re: #17 CuriousLurker

Well said. Glick's nasty little screed really pissed me off. WTF? Who in the hell does she think she is that she should insult American Jews like that and presume to tell them how to think and what choices they have to make? I know she was ragging on all diaspora Jews too, but it was her attack on Americans that made me twitch. It was like, "Step the hell off. I might not agree with them on everything, but those are MY Jews you're dissing now. Go pick on someone else, you snarky jackass."

LOL Oh you go girl!

She's seems quite resentful of us. I'm not sure why that is. I don't understand why else she would attack American Jews when she doesn't even have a grasp of the facts.


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