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2 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:08:12pm

Uh huh. Well love to see how hitting speeds of 80 MPH effects range. Too bad acceleration is not shown.Look s like 2 companies pushing the truth out of shape-One media one car maker. Car reviewers did hit the accelerator hard and often, exploring performance as if it were a gas engine.

Argument 3: Musk writes that “Cruise control was never set to 54 mph as claimed in the article, nor did he limp along at 45 mph.” This refers to the second part of Broder’s sentence about turning down the heat, “I turned the climate control to low — the temperature was still in the 30s — and planted myself in the far right lane with the cruise control set at 54 miles per hour,” and then again when he was in Norwich: “The displayed range never reached the number of miles remaining to Milford, and as I limped along at about 45 miles per hour I saw increasingly dire dashboard warnings to recharge immediately.” Musk places that first part again at 182 miles in and the second part at around mile 410. We’ve blocked off both those sections.

Convincing? Yes, then no. The speeds look a bit higher for both parts, almost reaching 70 at some points on the leg to NY, which does not jibe with the 54 mph cruise control. But the section before he broke down it does look like he chugged along at a pretty low speed.

They talk 70 mph, yet the real high speed reached was 80. Check gas car efficiency at 80 vs 55. Massive difference in range.

80 mph is a “bit higher” than 54? Could I please get a salary raise that is a “bit higher” like that?

3 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:17:45pm

Car And driver did not experience troubles like this guy did.

[Link: www.caranddriver.com…]
Those of us who like cars propelled by closely spaced, tiny explosions don’t easily warm up to electric power. It’s not just our troglodytic affection for an urgently revving engine, a crisp redline shift, and the earthy whiff of gasoline. The reality is that most electric cars simply haven’t been very good.

Optimized for high mileage ratings, current electric cars are small and slow. Even worse, none has sufficient range to be truly useful, unless your duty cycle consists of driving no farther than the nearest grocery store. It’s no surprise that electric cars are selling like stale cowpies.

Then along comes the Tesla Model S from Elon Musk, he of PayPal and SpaceX, to change our perceptions about cars powered by electrons. For example, in one day, our photographer drove the fully charged car for 30 to 40 miles—already half the range of a Nissan Leaf. Then I drove it 30 miles to dinner and to a friend’s home another 40 miles away before taking the long way back to Ann Arbor. After gallivanting all over Detroit’s sprawling metro area, I returned to Car and Driver headquarters to polish off the last few miles. Our measured range was 211 miles—not quite the EPA-predicted 265—but impressive, given our 75-to-80-mph highway speeds.

4 Mattand  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 1:36:52pm

Deleted for being off-topic by author. Apologies.

5 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 2:58:43pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

However:

Elon Musk’s Data Doesn’t Back Up His Claims of New York Times Fakery - Technology - the Atlantic Wire

That article looks a lot like some of the fact-check articles I’ve seen around. Parsing and interpretation for the win.

One thing - mentioned in comments - that I think isolates the whole issue. Broder charged to “32 miles remaining” for his last leg, which had a distance of 61 miles. That’s the one where he “broke down” (ran completely out) at the 54 mile point, the one at the end. His reason - he wanted to test against how “real world” drivers would use it, not wanting to stand around for a full charge.

OK, I get not wanting to stand around for a full charge - an hour and a half, slow station - for what’s only going to be another hour on the road. But nobody I know, looking at 60 miles to go, puts half that amount of fuel in the gas tank. And having done so, nobody I know would then blame the manufacturer for not having better fuel efficiency.

There are, indeed, some places where the aforementioned parsing and interpretation might apply. But this last bit is the one that clinches the decision for me. Broder can claim the car didn’t stand up to how he drove, but he’s wrong when he says, “I didn’t do anything wrong.”

6 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 14, 2013 3:21:31pm

re: #5 kirkspencer

This got me looking further. It’s not hard to find tests where the car performed as expected or better. I think some automotive writers just do not understand the fundamental difference of an EV and gas. I think some of these guys approach an EV to test with gasoline car expectations from long habit.

==================
[Link: www.edmunds.com…]
We’re 120 miles from home base and our 2012 Tesla Model S sits quiet in a roadside turnout on the Pacific Coast Highway.

But this pure electric luxury sedan isn’t stranded with its battery perilously low on juice. No, we came to this remote stretch of unspoiled coastline on purpose, taking advantage of a lull in our schedule to go for a drive for the pure enjoyment of it.

With 265 miles of EPA-rated range on tap, we’re sitting here munching our lunch and admiring the view with a battery that’s still more than half full. We’ll make it home comfortably the same way we got here — at prevailing freeway speeds, with the A/C on and the stereo thumping.

Why so confident? Because yesterday we drove the Tesla 267 miles on a single charge, and it was on our suburban city test loop, which includes plenty of stop-and-go driving along the way.

==================
[Link: www.autoblog.com…]

First, the good news. Motor Trend ran a battery of tests on the Model S, and its independent measurements discovered the following ways that their independent testing beat the manufacturer’s official numbers:

0-60 time: 3.9 seconds (Tesla official number is 4.4 seconds)
Quarter mile: 12.5 seconds at 110.9 mph (12.6 seconds)
100.7 MPGe during a 200+ mile drive (EPA says 89 MPGe).

So, then, what’s the bad news? At roughly 65 mph with no A/C, MT “only” got 238 miles out of the battery. That’s less than advertised, but MT offers an important and reasonable take on this issue:

“But the range that matters is really a psychological/perceptual one, not a specific number. Think about it: We drove from Fontana on the eastern edge of the L.A. basin to San Diego and all the way back to L.A.’s Pacific edge on one charge. Five hours of continuous driving. This is a breakthrough accomplishment that ought to knock down the range anxiety barrier that’s substantially limited EV sales.”

Word.

7 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 3:23:33pm

The power required to push through aerodynamic drag increases with the cube of the velocity. Any time Broder spent at 85 mph he was draining the batteries at 2.23 times the normal drain rate at 65 mph.

This whole argument about the velocities not being that different is rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of the physical world. Every doubling of velocity relative to the air mass results in an eightfold increase in the power required just to maintain that velocity.


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 Frank says:

The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions. -- Playboy Interview, April 1993