9/11 Family Member Appalled at Obama’s Gitmo Closing

US News • Views: 2,429

A 9/11 family member chides the new President for closing Guantanamo terror camp.

With his shameful order to close Guantanamo Bay, President Obama has perfectly filled the stereotype of the classic clueless ultra-Liberal - the one who can generate great passion for the rights of the guilty defendant and none for the innocent victim.

With a single stroke of the pen, Obama has delayed justice for the victims of 9/11, and in essence granted a reprieve for Al Qaeda mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the architect of 9/11.

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477 comments
1 BignJames  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:30:54pm

he’s just getting started.

2 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:32:14pm

After less than a week in office, Barack Obama’s approval rating plunges 15 points

Gee, what a coincidence.

3 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:32:37pm

IT’S NOT A “TERROR CAMP” YOU JOURNALISTIC PRICKS!

It’s a prison for terrorists.

4 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:33:04pm

Obama wants to roll the calendar back to 9/10/2001 and if the media cooperates like they did with the election he may succeed.

It will be interesting to see what BO says and does this Sept. 11th.

5 loppyd  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:33:30pm
Burke is the brother of FDNY Capt. William F. Burke Jr., who was killed on Sept. 11, 2001.

God Bless you, Mr. Burke.

6 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:33:38pm

re: #4 CIA Reject

Obama wants to roll the calendar back to 9/10/2001 and if the media cooperates like they did with the election he may succeed.

It will be interesting to see what BO says and does this Sept. 11th.

Wanna bet he’s not in the White House that day?

7 Karridine  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:34:48pm

First WEEK in-office, and EVERY DECISION helps the killers!

8 TheMatrix31  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:35:38pm

re: #7 Karridine

First WEEK in-office, and EVERY DECISION helps the killers!

Whether it be terrorists, or those foreigners who choose to kill off their pregnancies.

9 ornery elephant  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:35:50pm

Let’s not forget … that this is a President, who as a U.S. Senator, voted to withhold ammo, supplies and armor from our troops engaged on the battlefield in Iraq.

May 2007:

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama went against their Senate colleagues yesterday by voting to cut off funding to American troops in Iraq after fierce pressure from anti-war groups determined to face down President George W Bush.

Link….

10 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:36:04pm

It’s time for specific bumper stickers………….
ZEROS’S STROKE OF A PEN
SET MONSTERS FREE AGAIN!

11 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:08pm

re: #7 Karridine

First WEEK in-office, and EVERY DECISION helps the killers!

Just the Gitmo detainees. I’m sure he’ll be out soon, searching for the real killers.
;)

12 Karridine  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:10pm

re: #8 TheMatrix31

EXactly, Matrix! Obama helps killers.

“We live in the greatest nation in the world! Join me in changing it!” Hussein Obama

13 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:12pm
14 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:17pm

re: #7 Karridine

First WEEK in-office, and EVERY DECISION helps the killers!

Angry yet?

15 opinionated  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:24pm

We need a name. Not just participants on this site and not everyone who didn’t vote for Obama.

But those of us who not only didn’t vote for Obama but warned anyone who would or would not listen to us about the dire consequences if he became President.

Like Truthers have a name, we need one too. For those of us who were right and sane and prophetic and suffered no tingle up our legs.

16 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:30pm

re: #6 CyanSnowHawk

Wanna bet he’s not in the White House that day?

9/11/2009 is a Friday. My guess would be he’ll be secreted away at Camp David for a long week-end conference with his “economic team” to re-formulate his economic recovery plan which will have fallen flat on its face by then.

Too busy with important policy decisions to “waste time” at memorials or other ceremonies.

And more of the suffering of That Day will be crammed down the memory hole.

*SPIT*

17 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:37pm

Hell, I even previewed it……………
ZERO’S

18 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:38pm
With his shameful order to close Guantanamo Bay, President Obama has perfectly filled the stereotype of the classic clueless ultra-Liberal - the one who can generate great passion for the rights of the guilty defendant and none for the innocent victim.

Because ultra-liberals think terrorists are freedom fighters, and our dead are party to the oppressors. Warped is their thinking, and their deeds dishonorable.

19 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:57pm

re: #2 gmsc

After less than a week in office, Barack Obama’s approval rating plunges 15 points

Gee, what a coincidence.

I love it. Sixty Eight percent approval rating. When I was in school in the 50’s and 60’s, that was an “F.”

I guess they have lowered the bar a bit, which drives me crazy, since by today standards, I could be teaching drama at Julliard.

20 loppyd  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:38:04pm

re: #14 brookly red

Angry yet?

I’ve been seriously pissed since 11/4/08.

21 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:38:29pm

I just don’t think that The One really believes that they want to kill us. Really kill us. Dead. His tool of choice is rhetoric, so I’m guessing he believes that’s their tool of choice too. I really fear what it would take to make him understand. They. Want. Us. Dead.

22 nyc redneck  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:38:37pm

he never once said , he would put america first.

23 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:38:59pm

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

I love it. Sixty Eight percent approval rating. When I was in school in the 50’s and 60’s, that was an “F.”

I guess they have lowered the bar a bit, which drives me crazy, since by today standards, I could be teaching drama at Julliard.

Obviously, you were in school before the days of “Yay! Everybody’s a winner!”

24 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:39:16pm

re: #15 opinionated

We need a name. Not just participants on this site and not everyone who didn’t vote for Obama.

But those of us who not only didn’t vote for Obama but warned anyone who would or would not listen to us about the dire consequences if he became President.

Like Truthers have a name, we need one too. For those of us who were right and sane and prophetic and suffered no tingle up our legs.

“Americans” should do just fine.

25 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:39:27pm

re: #15 opinionated

We need a name. Not just participants on this site and not everyone who didn’t vote for Obama.

But those of us who not only didn’t vote for Obama but warned anyone who would or would not listen to us about the dire consequences if he became President.

Like Truthers have a name, we need one too. For those of us who were right and sane and prophetic and suffered no tingle up our legs.

I like Patriot.

26 faraway  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:39:27pm

This needs to be a letter in the WSJ Opinion

27 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:39:30pm

re: #15 opinionated

We need a name. Not just participants on this site and not everyone who didn’t vote for Obama.

But those of us who not only didn’t vote for Obama but warned anyone who would or would not listen to us about the dire consequences if he became President.

Like Truthers have a name, we need one too. For those of us who were right and sane and prophetic and suffered no tingle up our legs.

How about, “American”?

28 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:39:40pm

re: #24 brookly red

GMTA

29 Karridine  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:39:59pm

“Zero’s pen frees killers again!”

30 faraway  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:05pm

Lost: GOP Leader

Call 1-800-conservative, if found.

Last seen in 2004.

31 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:08pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

I like Patriot.

I like that one too.

32 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:17pm

re: #28 Sharmuta

GMTA

So, what am I, a junior senator?

33 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:17pm

re: #24 brookly red

“Americans” should do just fine.

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

I like Patriot.

re: #27 Sharmuta

How about, “American”?

Impressive! I vote “American” - as well!

34 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:19pm

re: #15 opinionated

We need a name. Not just participants on this site and not everyone who didn’t vote for Obama.

But those of us who not only didn’t vote for Obama but warned anyone who would or would not listen to us about the dire consequences if he became President.

Like Truthers have a name, we need one too. For those of us who were right and sane and prophetic and suffered no tingle up our legs.

Canaries in the coal mine? Except that miners listen to the canaries.

Casandras?

35 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:46pm

I remember seeing those people jump from the towers.
And that is all the proof I need that closing Gitmo is an idiot’s gambit.

36 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:40:52pm

This is going to be a long four years.

37 Karridine  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:41:07pm

re: #21 nanook

I just don’t think that The One really believes that they want to kill us. Really kill us. Dead. His tool of choice is rhetoric, so I’m guessing he believes that’s their tool of choice too. I really fear what it would take to make him understand. They. Want. Us. Dead.

They WILL accept ‘enslaved‘…

38 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:41:10pm

“Loyal Opposition” works for me.

39 nyc redneck  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:41:34pm

in fact he talked a lot abt. how important world opinion is of us.
fck world opinion.
american citizens were killed by the savages he wants to impress.

40 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:41:49pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

I like Patriot.

you didn’t get the memo.
Dissent is no longer patriotic.

/not kewl to oppose the Big Bro’, bro………

41 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:41:50pm

re: #37 Karridine

Never submit. Never bow down.

42 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:41:51pm
It seems the new President is too far removed from the victims of 9/11. Victims like 11-year-old Bernard Curtis Brown, a passenger on American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon. Everyone onboard was killed, as well as 66 people in the Pentagon. Curtis was on a trip with several of his classmates to California sponsored by National Geographic.

That explains why NatGeo, despite being mostly aligned with the PC crowd, has been so hell-bent against the Troofers.

43 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:42:07pm

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

So, what am I, a junior senator?

Depends. How much ya got?

/

44 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:42:20pm

I like the sidebar of the story: “Senator Oprah? What have the rest of the Goonies been up to?”

45 TheMatrix31  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:42:23pm

The Voices of Reason.

46 loppyd  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:42:41pm

I am a patriot.

And the rivers shall open for the righteous…
And the rivers shall open for the righteous…
And the rivers shall open for the righteous someday…

I was walking with my brother,
And he wondered, oh how I am.
Said what I believe in my soul
Ain’t what I see with my eyes,
And there’s no turning back this time.

I am a patriot, and I love my country,
Because my country is all I know.
Wanna be with my family,
People who understand me.
I got no place else to go.

I was walking with my girlfriend.
She looked so fine, I said
“Baby, what’s on your mind?”
Said I want to run like the lions
Released from their cages…
Released from the rages
Burning in my soul tonight.

I am a patriot, and I love my country,
Because my country is all I know.

And I ain’t no communist,
And I ain’t no socialist,
And I ain’t no capitalist,
And I ain’t no imperialist,
And I ain’t no democrat,
Sure ain’t no republican either,
I only know one party,
And that is freedom.
I am…I am…I am…

I am a patriot, and I love my country,
Because my country is all I know.

47 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:42:43pm

re: #38 Sharmuta

“Loyal Opposition” works for me.

I like it.

48 faraway  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:43:05pm

Question for Obama: When will KSM be hanged?

49 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:43:08pm

re: #31 Sharmuta

I like that one too.

I like it best (not because I said it) but because there is a BIG difference. Anyone can be an American, most of us are born into it without any work on our part.

A Patriot is someone who really has to work at supporting their country. He/she is someone that makes a difference, not just by existing but by a conscious effort.

50 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:43:10pm

re: #28 Sharmuta

GMTA

I don’t want to envoke the wrath, but I am starting to listen to the nrithers… jusssst a littel bit.

51 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:43:16pm

re: #34 Catttt

Canaries in the coal mine? Except that miners listen to the canaries.

Casandras?

Won’t work. “Cassandra” means “blowhard” to those who are ignorant of the myth.

52 MAV  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:43:42pm

re: #15 opinionated

The Obyss, where one man can destroy our country
Spits

53 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:04pm

re: #50 brookly red

That’s unfortunate. They’re insane.

54 ArmyWife  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:05pm

re: #15 opinionated

We have a name for those who gave up their lives, their limbs to protect this country. We have a name for those who left their family for years to protect and spread freedom. That name is hero.

Damn President Obama for being unable to comprehend even 1/3 of this.

55 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:14pm

And they wonder why we worried about his stance on the terrorist threat.

1) Closes Gitmo
2) Closes CIA prisons
3) Halts trials of terrorists
4) Announces he is eager to talk to Iran and find out what they want us to do
5) Asks for timetable for Iraq pullout
6) Banned “abuse” to terrorists held prisoner

56 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:15pm

re: #16 CIA Reject

9/11/2009 is a Friday. My guess would be he’ll be secreted away at Camp David for a long week-end conference with his “economic team” to re-formulate his economic recovery plan which will have fallen flat on its face by then.

Too busy with important policy decisions to “waste time” at memorials or other ceremonies.

And more of the suffering of That Day will be crammed down the memory hole.

*SPIT*

That’s the past, let it go…
Why dredge up hurtful memories…
It’ll just add to the problem…
America is ready to move on…
/

57 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:32pm
58 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:32pm

re: #50 brookly red

I don’t want to envoke the wrath, but I am starting to listen to the nrithers… jusssst a littel bit.

Not long ago, Charles posted that he had almost found evidence of 0bama’s alien birth, but then said never mind.

It’s a good thing he recanted, because banning Charles from LGF could’ve caused a few problems.

59 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:43pm

re: #51 victor_yugo

Won’t work. “Cassandra” means “blowhard” to those who are ignorant of the myth.

In other words - to 99 percent + of the US population.

60 ornery elephant  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:52pm

I feel so badly for the 9/11 family members who have to watch this…and at the same time, I can’t help but feel the fear of those families who have young men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan who have to worry even more if their loved ones are now in greater danger than before. A worry caused by a self-righteous, self-centered, ill-informed politician.

61 cardinalfang  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:06pm

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

62 yochanan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:06pm

i for one am glad i am a ‘ulta cocker’ but i worry about my kids and my grand kids what they will have.

that i will worry about.

63 loppyd  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:08pm

Remember this quote?

“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic”

That was your now Secretary of State.

64 pat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:10pm

If anyone still thinks Obama cares what they think, they are mistaken. The arrogance and objectives of this man can be summed up in two words. “We won”

65 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:13pm

re: #21 nanook

I just don’t think that The One really believes that they want to kill us. Really kill us. Dead. His tool of choice is rhetoric, so I’m guessing he believes that’s their tool of choice too. I really fear what it would take to make him understand. They. Want. Us. Dead.

Nawwww! Those folks in jail are just misunderstood, like Bill Ayers was. They’ll reform just like he did, and it’ll be a wonderful thing.
.

66 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:24pm

re: #58 gmsc

Not long ago, Charles posted that he had almost found evidence of 0bama’s alien birth, but then said never mind.

It’s a good thing he recanted, because banning Charles from LGF could’ve caused a few problems.

That was so nuanced of you!

67 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:32pm

re: #55 Silhouette

And they wonder why we worried about his stance on the terrorist threat.

1) Closes Gitmo
2) Closes CIA prisons
3) Halts trials of terrorists
4) Announces he is eager to talk to Iran and find out what they want us to do
5) Asks for timetable for Iraq pullout
6) Banned “abuse” to terrorists held prisoner

7) Gives first network interview to Arabic TV station.
(have you heard about this? ;) )

68 faraway  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:58pm

Was his first interview in Arabic?

69 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:45:59pm

re: #56 David IV of Georgia

That’s the past, let it go…
Why dredge up hurtful memories…
It’ll just add to the problem…
America is ready to move on…
/

“Oceania has never been at war with Eurasia….”

Wish this was sarc, but it ain’t!

70 descolada9  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:46:12pm

Disgusting, but not shocking. This hapless President is a tool who is going to make Carter look like a wise saint by the time he’s done. My sympathies for all of the 9/11 families who are having to witness this miscarriage of justice.

71 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:46:23pm

re: #63 loppyd

Remember this quote?

“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic”

That was your now Secretary of State.

She’ll look cute hoist upon that petard.

72 Karridine  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:46:34pm

re: #47 Catttt Loyal Opposition

I like it.

In Balance

/ similar, but implies that WE are in-balance, they’re not; also says, WE balance what you’re imbalancing….

“In further news, In Balance was present today, protesting Mr Obama’s opening of the Knitting Needles Social Rehabilitation Camp on the outskirts of the city…”

73 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:46:41pm
74 Desert Dog  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:46:55pm

re: #55 Silhouette

And they wonder why we worried about his stance on the terrorist threat.

1) Closes Gitmo
2) Closes CIA prisons
3) Halts trials of terrorists
4) Announces he is eager to talk to Iran and find out what they want us to do
5) Asks for timetable for Iraq pullout
6) Banned “abuse” to terrorists held prisoner


Did we expect different? I didn’t. He is doing what he said he would. It was wishful thinking to think he would actually govern from the center. The $Trillion dollar bail out looks more like a payoff for his fundraising base. We are totally screwed now. I just hope there is a USA left once “the One” gets finished with his “transformation”

75 JacksonTn  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:47:21pm

The One has just begun to spit into the face of America …he does not love America …he does not love many people and things … we will find out soon enough what and who they are …when a person tells you something …believe them the first time …

76 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:47:40pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

That’s unfortunate. They’re insane.

true, but I don’t like what I am seeing, sigh, so what now?

77 BignJames  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:47:41pm

re: #71 OldLineTexan

She’ll look cute hoist upon that petard.

Sick puppy

78 faraway  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:47:54pm

This is the change we were waiting for

79 loppyd  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:47:58pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

One of the aspects that Team O is looking into is trials in US courts. Many of the detainees will not be convicted because of rules of evidence, lack of witnesses (can’t have a CIA covert blow his cover or jeopardize others in the field), etc.
That means they will have to be released.

80 phillygirl  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:47:58pm

It amazed me when O actually told people not to listen to Rush Limbaugh. I know that boosted Rush’s ratings. At least I hope so. I listened.

81 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:48:27pm
82 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:48:35pm

re: #67 gmsc

7) Gives first network interview to Arabic TV station.
(have you heard about this? ;) )

Yep.

8) Made his first call as POTUS to the head of a terrorist state.

83 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:48:42pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

It seems to me that Obama’s aim is to insert them into the US criminal system…instead of the military tribunal they should received as un-uniformed combatants. So the idea that they will end up in the military prison system is somewhat far-fetched. IMO, the end result will be that many go free. And I fully expect some to be granted asylum HERE.

84 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:48:42pm
It is asinine to believe that Guantanamo Bay, even with its scandalously biased coverage, has in any way inspired a single terrorist.

First of all, I love it when someone uses ‘asinine’ well in a sentence. Bonus points to Mr. Burke for addressing President Empty Suit with it.

85 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:49:02pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

I’m confused- I thought they were going to Yemen and France and Ireland.

86 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:49:17pm

re: #74 Desert Dog

Did we expect different? I didn’t. He is doing what he said he would. It was wishful thinking to think he would actually govern from the center. The $Trillion dollar bail out looks more like a payoff for his fundraising base. We are totally screwed now. I just hope there is a USA left once “the One” gets finished with his “transformation”

“Looks more like a payoff…” Understatement of the week. IT IS A PAYOFF, plain, simple and sickening.

87 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:49:47pm

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

Fifty-two percent of the country is petarded.

Please, don’t turn “petard” into a verb. Verbing weirds language.

88 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:02pm

re: #55 Silhouette

And they wonder why we worried about his stance on the terrorist threat.

1) Closes Gitmo
2) Closes CIA prisons
3) Halts trials of terrorists
4) Announces he is eager to talk to Iran and find out what they want us to do
5) Asks for timetable for Iraq pullout
6) Banned “abuse” to terrorists held prisoner

Yeah, but he’s providing free contraceptives for the masses so don’t worry, be happy.

“Soma” will be next…

89 pat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:03pm

I think there may be truth in the supposition that Obama secretly admires these animals.

90 loppyd  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:18pm

24 starts in a few. Must go get comfy.

Later, taters.

Have a good night! Don’t let the unicorns bite.

91 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:21pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

And explain to me what Super-Max facility are they going to?

92 Desert Dog  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:43pm

re: #79 loppyd

One of the aspects that Team O is looking into is trials in US courts. Many of the detainees will not be convicted because of rules of evidence, lack of witnesses (can’t have a CIA covert blow his cover or jeopardize others in the field), etc.
That means they will have to be released.

They will then turn around and sue the US Government AND WIN! What is it about the blind spot the left has when it comes to bad guys? The same crowd that told us to get along with the Soviets ‘cause they “ain’t that bad” are now siding with the people that have sworn on their lives to kill us all…..good job guys….committing suicide is one thing, when you take all of us with you, that is a different tune all together.

93 albusteve  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:55pm

re: #86 Walter L. Newton

“Looks more like a payoff…” Understatement of the week. IT IS A PAYOFF, plain, simple and sickening.

he’s just buying the proletariat…with your money…you should say something to somebody…call the IRS

94 SlartyBartfast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:50:58pm

Our dear leader sure has a lot more empathy for the Gitmo inmates than he does for the unborn. As one of my friends mentioned today, “It’s too bad we can’t get a few unborn children to be declared as terrorists.”

95 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:51:12pm

re: #88 CIA Reject

Yeah, but he’s providing free contraceptives for the masses so don’t worry, be happy.

“Soma” will be next…

“A gram is better than a damn.”

96 cardinalfang  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:51:43pm

re: #79 loppyd

“Trials” are a whole different matter, and I’ll bet you credits to Navy beans that they’re aren’t going to be any. Obama certainly doesn’t want to go through the embarrassing spectacle of acquittals that the idiots in the Bush Justice Department managed.

97 albusteve  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:51:58pm

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

And explain to me what Super-Max facility are they going to?


‘im goin to Disney world!”

98 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:52:20pm

re: #83 OldLineTexan

It seems to me that Obama’s aim is to insert them into the US criminal system…instead of the military tribunal they should received as un-uniformed combatants. So the idea that they will end up in the military prison system is somewhat far-fetched. IMO, the end result will be that many go free. And I fully expect some to be granted asylum HERE.

I wonder what the result would be, of an honest poll of FBI personnel’s opinion right now?
.

99 Opinionated  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:52:22pm

The bizarre world in which we live.

As the terrorists and murderers are being freed, Caroline Glick writes of how defenders of freedom like Geert Wilders and IDF soldiers have to fear imprisonment and worse.

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

100 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:52:34pm

re: #58 gmsc

Not long ago, Charles posted that he had almost found evidence of 0bama’s alien birth, but then said never mind.

It’s a good thing he recanted, because banning Charles from LGF could’ve caused a few problems.

before my time i guess…

101 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:52:50pm

re: #77 BignJames

Sick puppy

Moi? Surely not.

In fact, that is just one gift we have received from Mrs. Clinton - it is a great defene against the hubris of this Administration.

I expect many more gifts from her…she is an amazing woman, and cannot keep away from the spotlight. Neither of these habits is always good or desirable.

102 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:53:06pm

re: #83 OldLineTexan

..instead of the military tribunal they should received as un-uniformed combatants.

You’re too nice. That is not what they deserve for being un-uniformed.

Under Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, detainees would have to have satisfied four conditions: They would have to be part of a military hierarchy; they would have to have worn uniforms or other distinctive signs visible at a distance; they would have to have carried arms openly; and they would have to have conducted their military operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
103 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:53:15pm

re: #93 albusteve

he’s just buying the proletariat…with your money…you should say something to somebody…call the IRS

Unfortunately, the new head of the IRS is a certified tax cheat.

104 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:53:24pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

why would anyone possibly imagine these guys have any kind of constitutional rights? Or it is unconstitutional for us to imprison them on a US Military base in another country. According to international law, they are military prisoners to be tried by a military tribunal.

105 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:53:41pm

re: #93 albusteve

he’s just buying the proletariat…with your money…you should say something to somebody…call the IRS

La, da, da, dee, dee. You know me too well. Well, what can I say? How about the weather.

-7 (f) wind chill here, 1/2 foot of snow on ground in Golden, light snow right now, will keep up until midnight. A bit chilly tonight.

Oh, by the way, are the politicians still spending our money?

106 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:53:49pm
107 albusteve  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:53:58pm

re: #103 Taqyia2Me

Unfortunately, the new head of the IRS is a certified tax cheat.

hint?

108 faraway  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:54:19pm

Don’t have too many beers and get frisky with a racoon, or you’ll get your weiner bit off

109 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:54:23pm

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

And explain to me what Super-Max facility are they going to?

The only super-max facility suitable for these scum is six feet under, in a pine box (optional), minus every drop of blood in their bodies (mandatory).

110 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:54:37pm

re: #87 gmsc

Please, don’t turn “petard” into a verb. Verbing weirds language.

“Petarded” is not a verb in that sentence, is it?

111 cardinalfang  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:54:59pm

re: #83 OldLineTexan

Of course, there’s the small matter that a whole bunch of them *are* innocent and shouldn’t be locked up in the first place. 43 managed to fuck up practically everything he touched - why assume that he did this right?

112 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:08pm

re: #107 albusteve

hint?

Geitner (sp?), US Treasury Secretary designate.

113 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:24pm

re: #102 Silhouette

We already failed to shoot them on the battlefield, so we may as well try them.

But not with the rights of US citizens.

114 albusteve  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:41pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

La, da, da, dee, dee. You know me too well. Well, what can I say? How about the weather.

-7 (f) wind chill here, 1/2 foot of snow on ground in Golden, light snow right now, will keep up until midnight. A bit chilly tonight.

Oh, by the way, are the politicians still spending our money?

“my money flowed like wine”….hahaha

115 akak  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:43pm

Jihad tennis down unda? Wow, I’ve never heard of that in the name of piss be upon him false prophet MOMO?

Syrians vs ?
Boz vs Serbs? shocka

/well whatever gets their goat I guess.

116 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:45pm

OT: EU official: Hamas responsible for Gaza

Wait, I need to check, and … yep, it’s frozen over.

117 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:48pm

re: #109 victor_yugo

The only super-max facility suitable for these scum is six feet under, in a pine box (optional), minus every drop of blood in their bodies (mandatory).

Er, I don’t agree, not unless they stand some sort of trial and depending on the charges.

I think I still live in America? Don’t you?

118 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:53pm

re: #111 cardinalfang And you know they are innocent how? Or maybe you are an ACLU lawyer.

119 SlartyBartfast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:55:59pm

By the way, I sent a stern email to my senators last week regarding our new Treasury Secretary. Here’s an excerpt:

Why don’t you all install a Secretary of the Interior with a record of hunting violations? How about a former moonshiner to run the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms? Maybe you can find someone with a couple of DUIs to be Transportation Secretary!

They both voted against confirmation today. Also, here’s some interesting quotes from the Senate floor.

Anyway, I’m going to send them a quick “thank you.”

120 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:56:06pm

re: #110 OldLineTexan

“Petarded” is not a verb in that sentence, is it?

You are correct sir! You are grammaring very clearly.

121 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:56:07pm

re: #110 OldLineTexan

“Petarded” is not a verb in that sentence, is it?

Unpack your adjectives

122 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:56:37pm

re: #112 Taqyia2Me

Geitner (sp?), US Treasury Secretary designate.

Fixed. He was sworn in within an hour after confirmation.

123 sngnsgt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:56:44pm

re: #103 Taqyia2Me

Unfortunately, the new head of the IRS is a certified tax cheat.

Uh, uh, uh, I thought he was nominated as loophole expert?

124 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:56:50pm

re: #111 cardinalfang

Of course, there’s the small matter that a whole bunch of them *are* innocent and shouldn’t be locked up in the first place. 43 managed to fuck up practically everything he touched - why assume that he did this right?

Maybe he just things “less wrong”, Hmmm?

125 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:56:54pm

re: #111 cardinalfang

Of course, there’s the small matter that a whole bunch of them *are* innocent and shouldn’t be locked up in the first place. 43 managed to fuck up practically everything he touched - why assume that he did this right?

innocent? ahhh I see the problem now. ;-)>

126 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:57:07pm

re: #79 loppyd

One of the aspects that Team O is looking into is trials in US courts. Many of the detainees will not be convicted because of rules of evidence, lack of witnesses (can’t have a CIA covert blow his cover or jeopardize others in the field), etc.
That means they will have to be released.

Not to mention the possibility that they’ll be acquitted by a jury of the same kid of morons who voted for Obambi.

Or set OJ free in LA.

127 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:57:14pm

re: #111 cardinalfang

Of course, there’s the small matter that a whole bunch of them *are* innocent and shouldn’t be locked up in the first place. 43 managed to fuck up practically everything he touched - why assume that he did this right?

Your insider information fascinates me. Please share, unless your security clearance won’t allow it. In which case, I wonder why you are speaking in public at all…

BTW, as much as I disagreed with “W” on the border and aspects of the WoT, I don’t agree with your BDS assertion.

128 carefulnow  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:57:17pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

I say let’s feed them peanut butter!

129 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:57:21pm

re: #118 UberInfidel67

And you know they are innocent how? Or maybe you are an ACLU lawyer.

I’ve munched on enough trolls, moby’s and jerks today, I’m leaving this one to the rest of the room.

130 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:57:27pm

The episode of how I met your Mother was really funny tonight..Marshall looking for the perfect burger in NYC..Reminded me of the time I spent 3 months in Philly…

131 albusteve  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:57:31pm

re: #112 Taqyia2Me

Geitner (sp?), US Treasury Secretary designate.

I know that…maybe you should start a tax revolt

132 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:58:09pm

re: #113 OldLineTexan

Of course, but I would have said, “a military tribunal, which is more than they deserve.”

133 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:58:25pm

re: #88 CIA Reject

Yeah, but he’s providing free contraceptives for the masses so don’t worry, be happy.

“Soma” will be next…

It’s already the brand name of a muscle relaxant.

134 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:58:26pm

re: #121 Silhouette

Unpack your adjectives

Sorry. I did my thing in action.

135 Elcid  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:58:58pm

Never. Should. Have. Been. A. “Gitmo”.

136 ArmyWife  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:03pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Obama has stated he wants them tried under our legal system - not even military tribunals. Granted, there are huge constitutional issues with this, but that is the end game, make no mistake. Meanwhile, they must be somewhere while it winds through the courts. So we bring them here - UH OH! Once they are on American soil, they get the rights of American citizens and all the rules of evidence and speedy trials that go with it. These guys were caught on a battlefield where the standard is quite different then our criminal justice system norms. As such, many would be set free. Don’t forget, the guys still in aren’t there for repetitive jay walking. I have personal knowledge of the carnage these people are capable of committing. I don’t want them here, I don’t want them here, I don’t want them here.

137 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:07pm

Am I wrong? Are 94 of these men not going back to Yemen? Why did Yemen vow they’d be good little boys if they’re not going back?

What supermax facility are they being sent to?

138 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:18pm

re: #130 HoosierHoops

The episode of how I met your Mother was really funny tonight..Marshall looking for the perfect burger in NYC..Reminded me of the time I spent 3 months in Philly…

Looking for what, the perfect kielbasa?

139 jaunte  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:22pm

re: #111 cardinalfang

“43 managed to fuck up practically everything he touched…”

Like when he let those terrorist bombings happen in London and Madrid, right?

140 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:30pm

re: #70 descolada9

Disgusting, but not shocking. This hapless President is a tool who is going to make Carter look like a wise saint by the time he’s done. My sympathies for all of the 9/11 families who are having to witness this miscarriage of justice.

Jimmy Carter: Hamas can be trusted

141 jaunte  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:49pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

It is odd that they are so innocent, and yet so unwanted.

142 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:59:56pm

re: #122 victor_yugo

Fixed. He was sworn in within an hour after confirmation.

My dad (RIP) was an IRS auditor. Seeing a known tax cheat appointed as Treasury Secretary would have killed him.
Wake Up America, there might still be time to save our country.

143 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:00:01pm

re: #88 CIA Reject

Yeah, but he’s providing free contraceptives for the masses so don’t worry, be happy.

“Soma” will be next…

re: #133 OldLineTexan

It’s already the brand name of a muscle relaxant.

…and one of my favorite puzzles!

144 JacksonTn  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:00:10pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Wait a second - the bastards aren’t being *set free* - they’ll still be in maximum lockup. Just not in Cuba, which was always a lousy idea from a constitutional standpoint. Anybody who thinks this is going to be a vacation for them has obviously never spent time in a super-max facility, especially a military one.

I guess nothing discussed on this site ever interests you does it? …I mean you just come here today to defend the savages in GITMO? …just wondering ….

145 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:00:11pm

re: #2 gmsc

After less than a week in office, Barack Obama’s approval rating plunges 15 points

Gee, what a coincidence.

Actually, to be fair, up a point, not down and the second highest in history.The other link compared it to his transition rating, both by Gallup.

Gallup

146 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:00:18pm

re: #123 sngnsgt

Uh, uh, uh, I thought he was nominated as loophole expert?

Maybe it is the “Hire Frank Abagnale Jr as a con artist expert” method?

147 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:00:29pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

Am I wrong? Are 94 of these men not going back to Yemen? Why did Yemen vow they’d be good little boys if they’re not going back? What supermax facility are they being sent to?

He’s not going to answer the questions put to him. Check out his answers so far and check out his account.

I already had supper.

148 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:00:53pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

La, da, da, dee, dee. You know me too well. Well, what can I say? How about the weather.

-7 (f) wind chill here, 1/2 foot of snow on ground in Golden, light snow right now, will keep up until midnight. A bit chilly tonight.

Oh, by the way, are the politicians still spending our money?

Yeah, what the hell was up with the “light dusting of snow” they were talking about when I went to bed last night?

I barely made it to work this morning.

149 Desert Dog  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:03pm

I think all the poor souls down in Gitmo should be immediately released…and then each given a 21 gun salute…..while tied to a post, after saying their last words….

150 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:25pm

re: #131 albusteve

I know that…maybe you should start a tax revolt

Seems to me Geitner already fucking has started one.

151 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:25pm

re: #133 OldLineTexan

It’s already the brand name of a muscle relaxant.


Brand name? What do you mean by “brand name”? Such concepts of private enterprise are outdated Comrade!

Any more such talk and it will be re-education camp for you!

////////

152 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:27pm

re: #61 cardinalfang

Why have you waited almost a year to start commenting on LGF?

153 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:28pm

re: #21 nanook

I just don’t think that The One really believes that they want to kill us. Really kill us. Dead. His tool of choice is rhetoric, so I’m guessing he believes that’s their tool of choice too. I really fear what it would take to make him understand. They. Want. Us. Dead.

He’s lived in an Islamic country. He knows what it is like. I don’t think he has any core values that are strong enough to cause him a dilemma if he were forced to choose Islam or slavery (kinda the same thing, tho). He probably knows it is a real possibility that Americans will be killed, but sees “his” big plan as more important than properly defending his country and people. He was likely one of those people who were already saying by 9-13-01, “Don’t get bent out of shape or do anything rash. Calm down, you’re just upsetting yourselves. Responding and reacting will only cause more harm.”
/I sure hope he proves me wrong.

154 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:33pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

Am I wrong? Are 94 of these men not going back to Yemen? Why did Yemen vow they’d be good little boys if they’re not going back?

What supermax facility are they being sent to?

Maybe YEMEN is a military supermax facility now…Obama, you magnificent bastard!

////////////////

155 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:01:48pm
156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:02:03pm

re: #122 victor_yugo

Fixed. He was sworn in within an hour after confirmation.

Looked it up 45 minutes ago, already updated in Wiki.

157 Desert Dog  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:02:17pm

re: #145 avanti

Actually, to be fair, up a point, not down and the second highest in history.The other link compared it to his transition rating, both by Gallup.

Gallup

My guess is he’ll post one of the most staggering falls in the approval ratings as well. As much as GWB from 9/11/01 to 9/21/09.

158 cardinalfang  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:02:20pm

re: #118 UberInfidel67

You can’t be guilty of something if you haven’t even been *charged* with anything. We have no idea what they’re accused of doing because they haven’t been accused at all. Even Tojo and Goering and Eichmann got trials. Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

159 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:02:21pm

re: #152 Sharmuta
Because he just got his wireless connection up and running from Gitmo? : p

160 ArmyWife  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:02:35pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

I can’t speak to Yemen specifically, but many of the countries who have said they would assist with the GITMO closing don’t want the prisoners to actually go to their countries and such. Now why do you suppose that would be? Let’s ask cardinalfang, shall we?

161 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:02:51pm

re: #58 gmsc

Not long ago, Charles posted that he had almost found evidence of 0bama’s alien birth, but then said never mind.

It’s a good thing he recanted, because banning Charles from LGF could’ve caused a few problems.

Maybe he found evidence that The One is a strange visitor from another planet, sent to earth to spread Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

162 yochanan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:03:13pm

re: #63 loppyd

is DISSENT still PATRIOTIC

163 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:03:56pm

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

Looking for what, the perfect kielbasa?

LOL
I remember this one little joint in South Philly..The water boys were dressed up as altar boys..I’m pretty sure everybody there was Mafia..It was so cool..
The best home made Italian food in the world..I’m just say’n..

164 claspur  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:04pm

The first post, Big James said it all.

These idiots that voted Barry in are going to start crying, soon.
The MSM didn’t inform them enough to what they were buying in to.

I don’t hate idiots, I just don’t like morons that can’t shudd’up long enough to reason.

When they come at you crying for *Halp, ask them Flat-out who they voted for…and look at their eyes to check if they are lieing to you.
If you catch them lieing…be descreate….show them The Wall away from most ppl’s eyes.

I’m fairly loaded-up…maybe another 1000 rounds I should
press-out…other than that…. I’m good to go. ;o)

165 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:11pm

re: #113 OldLineTexan

exactly we didnt do what we should have, execute them on the battlefield after getting what we could out of them.

166 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:16pm

re: #158 cardinalfang
And just because you haven’t been “charged” doesn’t make you innocent. You think these people are just being picked up at random and shipped to Gitmo? You’re from Berkley huh?

167 DeliLama  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:18pm

Google’s market capitalization (what the market says they’re worth) is 100 times bigger than the New York Times.

168 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:20pm

re: #145 avanti

Actually, to be fair, up a point, not down and the second highest in history.The other link compared it to his transition rating, both by Gallup.

Gallup

Approval of assisting killers…bloody fantastic. He could eat a live puppy on TV and some moonbat would die of joy. How wonderful is life, and how brief.

169 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:22pm

re: #148 lobo91

Yeah, what the hell was up with the “light dusting of snow” they were talking about when I went to bed last night?

I barely made it to work this morning.

No kidding, and now, I just heard, up to a possible 3 more inches tonight.

My week is always slow until about Thursdays, so I don’t have to worry about it to much. And I have all sorts of stores with in walking distance (which I did this morning, it was fun walking through 6 inches of snow).

I can just lay back and watch the world go crazy on the roads. But, I do live in a garden apartment (basement) and 12 feet from a busy street. I sometimes imagine a car running right off the snowy street into my window.

Hey, we should do lunch some day when you are at the center, we are only 10 minutes from each other, I’ll come out anytime you want to meet somewhere, if you are allowed to.

170 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:35pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I think all the poor souls down in Gitmo should be immediately released…and then each given a 21 gun salute…..while tied to a post, after saying their last words….

I say keep them locked away. They want to be martyrs. Deny them their desire and keep them locked away.

171 IslandLibertarian  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:04:37pm

wow, kewl, cardinalfang, uh huh, bush lied, people died, yeah man, those guys in the Git’ are innnnnnnnooocennnnt! Now Big 0 will mellow out the bush harsh……….

/phhhhhhhhhhhffffffffffffff….cough

172 JacksonTn  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:05:10pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

You can’t be guilty of something if you haven’t even been *charged* with anything. We have no idea what they’re accused of doing because they haven’t been accused at all. Even Tojo and Goering and Eichmann got trials. Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

Cardinalfang …didn’t Obama tell you? He Won …you can go home now …the phone bank in Gaza is now officially closed …

173 DeliLama  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:05:37pm

re: #167 DeliLama

$822 million vs $100 billion

174 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:05:49pm

What have we learned from the last 8 years?

“He’s not MY President, and never will be.” - Julia Roberts
“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” - Howard Zinn
“”I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic.” - Hillary Clinton

175 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:05:56pm

re: #116 gmsc

OT: EU official: Hamas responsible for Gaza

Wait, I need to check, and … yep, it’s frozen over.

Release the flying pigs!

176 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:05:58pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

You can’t be guilty of something if you haven’t even been *charged* with anything. We have no idea what they’re accused of doing because they haven’t been accused at all. Even Tojo and Goering and Eichmann got trials. Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

I still want to know which Super-Max they are going to. You said they were.

177 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:02pm

re: #157 Desert Dog

My guess is he’ll post one of the most staggering falls in the approval ratings as well. As much as GWB from 9/11/01 to 9/21/09.

You may be right, I just wanted to show that the drop has not yet started.

178 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:17pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

What supermax are they being sent to?

179 elrushbuni  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:19pm

The Gitmo detainees should all be subjected to military trials not criminal trials. This is what Abraham Lincoln did with the traitors. That’s what you get when all you have in Washington is lawyers.

180 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:28pm
181 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:33pm

Soooo, back to 9/11… I was on Chambers st. when the first plane hit, got as far as Canal st. in time to watch the second. Maybe I am just a jaded New Yorker, but I think this is sooo wrong.

182 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:41pm

re: #172 JacksonTn

Cardinalfang …didn’t Obama tell you? He Won …you can go home now …the phone bank in Gaza is now officially closed …

LOL

183 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:06:48pm

re: #157 Desert Dog

My guess is he’ll post one of the most staggering falls in the approval ratings as well. As much as GWB from 9/11/01 to 9/21/09.


It won’t take him seven years to drop as much as W.

184 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:07:02pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I think all the poor souls down in Gitmo should be immediately released…and then each given a 21 gun salute…..while tied to a post, after saying their last words….

I think they should be given a choice- put out to sea in an LBRB or navigate cross country* into Cuba proper.

*What? there’s a huge mine field between Gitmo and Cuba proper? OK, give ‘em sneakers…

185 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:07:18pm

re: #181 brookly red

No- you’re an American.

186 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:07:33pm
187 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:07:35pm

re: #167 DeliLama

Google’s market capitalization (what the market says they’re worth) is 100 times bigger than the New York Times.

Price of 1 Sunday edition of the NYTimes + Price of 1 weekday/Saturday edition of the NYTimes + 22 cents = Price of 1 share of NYTimes stock

188 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:07:48pm

re: #153 David IV of Georgia

He’s lived in an Islamic country. He knows what it is like. I don’t think he has any core values that are strong enough to cause him a dilemma if he were forced to choose Islam or slavery (kinda the same thing, tho). He probably knows it is a real possibility that Americans will be killed, but sees “his” big plan as more important than properly defending his country and people. He was likely one of those people who were already saying by 9-13-01, “Don’t get bent out of shape or do anything rash. Calm down, you’re just upsetting yourselves. Responding and reacting will only cause more harm.”
/I sure hope he proves me wrong.

(sigh) I imagine you’re right. BTW, you’re apparently my homeboy. I am, after all, Nanook of the South. Unless you live in that OTHER Georgia….

189 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:07:58pm

re: #184 CIA Reject

I think they should be given a choice- put out to sea in an LBRB or navigate cross country* into Cuba proper.

*What? there’s a huge mine field between Gitmo and Cuba proper? OK, give ‘em sneakers…

And pray that all those mines are bouncing bettey’s

190 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:08:04pm

re: #184 CIA Reject

I don’t want them in Cuba proper. It’s 80 miles to America and I doubt the Castros will stop those boats.

191 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:08:09pm

re: #162 yochanan

is DISSENT still PATRIOTIC


Damn straight.

192 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:08:39pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

You can’t be guilty of something if you haven’t even been *charged* with anything. We have no idea what they’re accused of doing because they haven’t been accused at all. Even Tojo and Goering and Eichmann got trials. Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

Have you read the Geneva Conventions?

Where are these foreign combatants granted the right of habeus corpus?

Are you aware that Obama’s Republican hero Lincoln suspended this right for AMERICAN citizens during the Civil War?

Are you aware that these prisoners in Gitmo are NOT American citizens, and not even soldiers?

Are you aware that every one of them has outlived himself by six years now, since they all earned a quick firing squad in the field?

193 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:08:40pm

re: #180 buzzsawmonkey

They got trials after we won the war.

Have we won? Is radical Islam defeated?

and they all voluntarily signed written confessions when they were making their little play to be executed and become martyrs.

194 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:08:44pm

re: #176 Walter L. Newton

I still want to know which Super-Max they are going to. You said they were.

Maybe saying they were going to a Super-Max was just “pretty words”.

195 derbigdog  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:08:48pm

re: #15 opinionated

We need a name. Not just participants on this site and not everyone who didn’t vote for Obama.

But those of us who not only didn’t vote for Obama but warned anyone who would or would not listen to us about the dire consequences if he became President.

Like Truthers have a name, we need one too. For those of us who were right and sane and prophetic and suffered no tingle up our legs.

How about Wizards - a combination of Wise and Lizard.

196 x-wing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:09:27pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

This question was asked of you once, but I’m going to ask it again.

If these scumbags are innocent goatherders, why wont any other country take them from our custody?

You’ve been asked this question twice now. How about giving an answer.

197 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:09:34pm

re: #87 gmsc

Please, don’t turn “petard” into a verb. Verbing weirds language.

That’s English for you - evolves all the time. I googled it. :D

198 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:09:50pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

I’ll bet you actualy believe there’s a right of habeas corpus specified in the Constitution, don’t you?

199 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:09:54pm

re: #181 brookly red

Soooo, back to 9/11… I was on Chambers st. when the first plane hit, got as far as Canal st. in time to watch the second. Maybe I am just a jaded New Yorker, but I think this is sooo wrong.

I had a cousin-in-law in the second tower (north I think) at 9:00am for a meeting. He waited about 10 minutes, no one showed up, he left.

I’m with you on that.

And I am from Brooklyn, I was in the metro area when those building went up, I stopped there on business enough times, it’s not a joke, that was an act of war and the twits in git are prisoners. Gee, to bad, so sad, that’s what happens in war, you get prisoners.

200 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:11:17pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

You can’t be guilty of something if you haven’t even been *charged* with anything. We have no idea what they’re accused of doing because they haven’t been accused at all. Even Tojo and Goering and Eichmann got trials. Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

They are accused of shooting at U.S. troops in war time, but not wearing the insignia of foreign military, therefore, not entitled to any of the rights of prisoners of war, but entitled to the “rights” of irregular guerrillas when captured, which is, to be executed on the spot.

201 Render  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:11:30pm

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Either they’re “bastards” or…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

“A whole bunch of them are innocent.”

Which is it?

UNTOTTEN,
R

202 SlartyBartfast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:11:37pm

By the way (OT again, sorry)…here’s an article direct from Fantasy-Land!

Attacking a Bush administration policy, Obama directed the Environmental Protection Agency to re-examine whether California and other states should be allowed to have tougher auto emission standards to combat a build up of greenhouse gases.

Obama also directed his administration to get moving on new fuel-efficiency guidelines for the auto industry in time to cover 2011 model-year cars.

“For the sake of our security, our economy and our planet, we must have the courage and commitment to change,” Obama said in his first formal event in the ornate East Room of the White House.

Speaking as someone who works in the automobile industry, I can tell you that the designs for MY2011 were kicked-off in 1Q2008. The reliability testing for OEM automotive components takes months and the testing cycle is done at least twice—once to test the viability of the design, and once to confirm that the mass-produced product is just as good as the one that comes from the engineering prototype line.

MY2011 designs should be basically frozen by now, pending any failures encountered during the validation tests.

And, allowing the states to set their own emission standards…? Dumb idea. (That’s all I’m going to say about that.)

203 sngnsgt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:12:05pm

re: #155 buzzsawmonkey

Closing Gitmo? Fine.

Re-open Alcatraz.

And you don’t even have to renovate it. In its semi-ruinous state, it is head and shoulders above the caves of Tora Bora, and most construction in Muslim countries.

I like that idea, Clint Eastwood as security director.

204 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:12:07pm

re: #181 brookly red

Soooo, back to 9/11… I was on Chambers st. when the first plane hit, got as far as Canal st. in time to watch the second. Maybe I am just a jaded New Yorker, but I think this is sooo wrong.


We saw smoke from the Pentagon from our office. Walked out at lunch and smelled it.

205 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:12:39pm

re: #178 Sharmuta

What supermax are they being sent to?

The one Murtha wants built in his district?

206 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:12:52pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

I don’t want them in Cuba proper. It’s 80 miles to America and I doubt the Castros will stop those boats.

I’m kinda betting on the minefield myself…

207 Bob Z  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:12:53pm

Hey if not for President Bush there would be not terrorist,,,,,it is all his fault!

208 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:12:55pm

re: #197 Catttt

Oh please, don’t start the whole “evolving” discussion again.

209 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:13:04pm

re: #144 JacksonTn

I guess nothing discussed on this site ever interests you does it? …I mean you just come here today to defend the savages in GITMO? …just wondering ….

Defending the constitution is not defending savages. Our system of justice simply says you can’t lock someone up a throw away the key without some sort of charge.
If you disagree, work to amend our constitution so the government can lock up anyone, anytime, and without charges. Sorry, but that’s a conservative reading of our constitution.

210 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:13:14pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I think all the poor souls down in Gitmo should be immediately released…and then each given a 21 gun salute…..while tied to a post, after saying their last words….

What we need is a breakthrough in lie-detector technology, to REALLY know just where the bear shit in the buckwheat.

“Have you deliberately plotted to murder innocent civilians, and carried out the plot?”

(Needle on the instrument goes WHAM, indicating “Yes, no doubt of that.”)

“Tie this man to the post. Ready, aim, FIRE!”

“NEXT!”

Yeah, I know, that’s an ACLU nightmare, but what the heck? Dreaming about instant justice isn’t a crime, is it? Time to re-read Stranger in a Strange Land.
.

211 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:13:23pm
212 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:14:04pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

I had a cousin-in-law in the second tower (north I think) at 9:00am for a meeting. He waited about 10 minutes, no one showed up, he left.

I’m with you on that.

And I am from Brooklyn, I was in the metro area when those building went up, I stopped there on business enough times, it’s not a joke, that was an act of war and the twits in git are prisoners. Gee, to bad, so sad, that’s what happens in war, you get prisoners.

Well hommie, and just what to do with em?

213 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:14:08pm

re: #208 nanook

Oh please, don’t start the whole “evolving” discussion again.

It’s difficult to design an intelligent conversation without some evolution.

214 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:14:22pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

Do you really want to talk or are you just playing?

Because I’ll do you the honor of a serious reply if you truly don’t understand why we don’t just charge them.

Why don’t we just “charge them with a crime, then give them a trial”?

Simple…regular criminal law doesn’t apply here. This was not a bank robbery in Paducah. This was war.

So the next closest thing is internationally accepted legal standards in war. Typified by the the Geneva Conventions.

But those don’t apply to terrorists. These are not soldiers.

They were not wearing uniforms or identifying markings. They were not openly carrying weapons. They were not obeying the rules of warfare.

In short, they did nothing to earn the protections of Geneva rights.

They aren’t entitled to an American criminal trial. They aren’t entitled to American civil rights. They aren’t entitled to POW status.

They were only entitled to battlefield execution but we decided we’d rather have any intel would could get - in other words we spared their worthless lives in the hopes that we could use them to spare innocent lives. And we did. We found out lots from these guys.

215 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:14:26pm

re: #188 nanook

(sigh) I imagine you’re right. BTW, you’re apparently my homeboy. I am, after all, Nanook of the South. Unless you live in that OTHER Georgia….

Texas, actually. And King David IV was from that other Georgia. He is noted for trying to treat Muslims with respect and having them run all over him as a result. He then treated them strictly and forced them to abide in a civilized fashion. They found being civilized intolerable and whined to the caliph. Caliph Mo ibn Mo called a Jihad and descended on Georgia with a large army. The outnumbered Georgians under King David gave them a good whipping.

216 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:14:46pm

re: #169 Walter L. Newton

Hey, we should do lunch some day when you are at the center, we are only 10 minutes from each other, I’ll come out anytime you want to meet somewhere, if you are allowed to.

I’m generally free for lunch most weekdays. I usually have enough time to go someplace on Union, or up to Colfax.

Do you still have my email address?

217 Render  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:14:57pm

[Link: www.google.com…]

Feh. They get weaker and weaker everyday.

I’m off for some digital killing. At least there the trolls know which end of the gun to point which way.

GARBAGE,
R

218 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:15:07pm

re: #207 Bob Z

Hey if not for President Bush there would be not terrorist,,,,,it is all his fault!

Now Bob, are you being sarcastic? Because if you are, we have a little protocol here, ending a satirical or sarcastic comment with a slash’/” as in…

Bob, are you some kind of nut.
/

219 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:15:07pm

re: #209 avanti

Defending the constitution is not defending savages. Our system of justice simply says you can’t lock someone up a throw away the key without some sort of charge.
If you disagree, work to amend our constitution so the government can lock up anyone, anytime, and without charges. Sorry, but that’s a conservative reading of our constitution.

as it applies to Americans not non-uniformed combatants.

220 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:15:20pm

re: #202 SlartyBartfast
Don’t get me started on emission standards. Some brilliant mind decided that we Penna) should have the SAME standards as California. Hello? Polar opposites! Also, MY county has to have emissions testing on vehicles….about 5 mile up the road in the next county, they don’t. I guess the exhaust from our two trucks just hovers over where I live? But, and this is the “good” news, if you drive less than 5k a year, you are exempt from emissions. BUT, you still have to pay for the emissions sticker. Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.

221 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:15:27pm

re: #213 OldLineTexan

Upding to you!

222 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:15:46pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

Er, I don’t agree, not unless they stand some sort of trial and depending on the charges.

I think I still live in America? Don’t you?

I have my freedoms in the USA because we have not pussy-footed around with misanthropic murder-suicide cults.

General Sherman was right: Making the cost of war too high for the other side to bear, is the way to win a war. It worked against the Nazis, it worked against Imperial Japan, it worked in the Cold War. It even worked with the al-Qaeda sympathizers in Iraq, imagine that!

Don’t bother charging or trying them; they are outside the Geneva Convention. Just make sure they can never murder again, in the surest way possible. And DO NOT let them have an “Islamic” funeral, for whatever convenient definition that has at the moment. Cremate them and scatter the ashes at sea.

223 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #216 lobo91

I’m generally free for lunch most weekdays. I usually have enough time to go someplace on Union, or up to Colfax.

Do you still have my email address?

yup, do you have mine? I mail you so you do. shoot for wed.

224 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:16:13pm

Hello Evening Lizards! It it was a little warmer in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

Illinois Senator Dan Rutherford is posting updates on the Impeachment Trail Trial on YouTube.

What happened in Iceland.

How are you-all tonite and what are we talking about?

225 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:16:15pm

OT. It’s W’s fault: Bankruptcy causing Buffalo wings shortage.
We need a Federal wings rationing program before Big Wings is ripping us off.

226 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:16:38pm

re: #215 David IV of Georgia

Texas, actually. And King David IV was from that other Georgia. He is noted for trying to treat Muslims with respect and having them run all over him as a result. He then treated them strictly and forced them to abide in a civilized fashion. They found being civilized intolerable and whined to the caliph. Caliph Mo ibn Mo called a Jihad and descended on Georgia with a large army. The outnumbered Georgians under King David gave them a good whipping.

Where are all the good King David IV’s when we need them….?

227 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:16:55pm

re: #149 Desert Dog

I think all the poor souls down in Gitmo should be immediately released…and then each given a 21 gun salute…..while tied to a post, after saying their last words….

That shiek mohammed or whatever his name is should be launched from a B-52 tied to a cruise missle and sent back to whatever camel farm he came from…

228 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:01pm

re: #209 avanti

Defending the constitution is not defending savages. Our system of justice simply says you can’t lock someone a citizen up and throw away the key without some sort of charge.

Fixed it for ya.

229 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:07pm

re: #209 avanti

Defending the constitution is not defending savages. Our system of justice simply says you can’t lock someone up a throw away the key without some sort of charge.
If you disagree, work to amend our constitution so the government can lock up anyone, anytime, and without charges. Sorry, but that’s a conservative reading of our constitution.

These people are not protected by the Constitution of the United States, plain and simple.

Again, to a man, they have all outlived themselves by six years, given the RULES of warfare.

Quit fear-mongering, there are few of the mindless left here to buy the swill you are peddling.

230 yochanan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:13pm

re: #200 Alouette

EICHMAN WAS EXICUTED

231 Render  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:28pm

re: #209 avanti

I believe “our” Constitution is only relevent when one is speaking of “our” citizens.

FIX
YER
BLOG,
R

232 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:31pm

re: #222 victor_yugo

Well, I don’t agree.

233 jcbunga  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:39pm

re: #63 loppyd

Remember this quote?

“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you’re not patriotic”

That was your now Secretary of State.

For a minute there I didn’t recognize it without the nails on a chalkboard banshee inflection

234 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:40pm

re: #179 elrushbuni

The Gitmo detainees should all be subjected to military trials not criminal trials. This is what Abraham Lincoln did with the traitors. That’s what you get when all you have in Washington is lawyers.

Lincoln also arrested the chief justice and his act was later ruled unconstitutional and the innocent man that was locked up was released

Lincoln.

235 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:49pm

re: #158 cardinalfang

You can’t be guilty of something if you haven’t even been *charged* with anything. We have no idea what they’re accused of doing because they haven’t been accused at all. Even Tojo and Goering and Eichmann got trials. Habeas corpus: as Morticia Addams would say, “Not just pretty words.”

You’re in Washington DC. Are you connected with a group that defends the Guantanamo detainees?

236 capitalist piglet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:50pm

Am I oversimplifying this? I thought the Geneva Conventions were agreements between nations. If you were a signee, and your enemy was not, there was no agreement.

If anyone here can confirm or correct me, I’d appreciate it.

237 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:51pm

re: #200 Alouette

They are accused of shooting at U.S. troops in war time, but not wearing the insignia of foreign military, therefore, not entitled to any of the rights of prisoners of war, but entitled to the “rights” of irregular guerrillas when captured, which is, to be executed on the spot.

Actually, nobody who’s at Gitmo is there for “shooting at U.S. troops in wartime.” The vast majority of people in that category are at Camp Bucca, which is located near Basrah, Iraq.

The ones who are at Gitmo are there for a reason.

238 FrogMarch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:17:58pm

Andrew Sullivan has his arm up Obama’s butt.

Our hearts must bleed for the poor terrorists.
/oh wait - “there is no terrorist threat.” so sayeth the supreme leftist mascot, Michael Moore.
*spit*

239 Elcid  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:19:21pm

Beheadings

9/11 WTC

9/11 Pentagon

Flight 93 site 9/11

Mumbai

Bali

And the rights of the perpetrators is to be respected?

240 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:19:34pm

re: #235 Charles
No Charles, he is just stuck in DC cleaning up after the Obamagasm….you know, with his little pointy stick to pick up garbage. lol

241 jcbunga  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:19:40pm

When we caught the Germans in MP uniforms during the Battle of the Bulge, they were shot.

No trial.

No Gitmo.

No lawyers.

Up against the wall.

242 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:20:02pm

upstairs——————————>

243 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:20:09pm

re: #203 sngnsgt

I like that idea, Clint Eastwood as security director.


Chuck Norris.

244 Perplexed  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:20:57pm

Pelosi’s call for several hundred million for ‘planned parenthood’ probably makes the ghost of Margret Sanger dance with glee. From the sounds of it the ‘planned parenthood’ planning is for the poor and minorities who place the most burden on state economies. Can’t wait for Pelosi or someone just like her to call for euthanasia for the aged, infirm, and mentally deficient. That way the dems will have totaly adopted the party platform of the nazis. G_d save this country from our so called leaders.

245 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:02pm

re: #239 Elcid

Beheadings

9/11 WTC

9/11 Pentagon

Flight 93 site 9/11

Mumbai

Bali

And the rights of the perpetrators is to be respected?

Yep, funny thing about us Americans, we try to do things by the Constitution, and we do consider human rights, and a whole bunch of those other annoying little indicators of a civilized nation.

Life’s a bitch, isn’t it?

246 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:14pm

And because I know some soft-hearted folks believed the MSM implications that at least some of those at Gitmo were innocent bystanders accidentally caught up in the mess.

Our young military men and women routinely endure the vilest invective imaginable, including death threats that spill over to guards’ families. All soldiers and sailors working “inside the wire” have blacked out their name tags so that the detainees will not learn their identities. Before that step was taken the terrorists were threatening to tell their al-Qaeda pals still at large who the guards were. “We will look you up on the Internet,” the prisoners said. “We will find you and slaughter you and your family in your homes at night. We will cut your throats like sheep. We will drink the blood of the infidel.”

That is bad enough, but the terrorist prisoners throw more than words at the guards. On a daily basis, American soldiers carrying out their duties within the maximum-security camp are barraged with feces, urine, semen, and spit hurled by the detainees. Secretly fashioned weapons intended for use in attacking guards or fellow detainees are confiscated regularly. When food or other items are passed through the “bean hole”—an opening approximately 4 inches by 24 inches in the cell doors, the detainees have grabbed at the wrists and arms of the Americans feeding them and tried to break their bones.

When guards enter the cells to remove detainees for interrogation sessions, medical visits, or any number of reasons, detainees sometimes climb on the metal bunks and leap on the guards. They have crammed themselves under the bunks, requiring several guards to extract them. Some have attacked unsuspecting soldiers with steel chairs. Determined to inflict maximum damage, detainees have groped under the protective face masks of the guards, clawing their faces and trying to gouge eyes and tear mouths.

Every one of them claims torture.

247 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:24pm

re: #243 Jim in Virginia

Chuck Norris.

A man so tough that under his beard, there’s not even a chin…just another FIST!

/Family Guy scores occasionally

248 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:36pm

re: #203 sngnsgt

I like that idea, Clint Eastwood as security director.

Yeah - if you cause any trouble, Clint’s Gonna Paint Your Wagon!

249 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:36pm

re: #223 Walter L. Newton

yup, do you have mine? I mail you so you do. shoot for wed.

Unfortunately, Wednesday is one of those exceptions. I have a followup with the oral surgeon who worked on me last week Wednesday afternoon, so I’ll be on my way down to Peterson AFB about that time.

Any other day should work, though.

250 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:54pm

re: #236 capitalist piglet

Am I oversimplifying this? I thought the Geneva Conventions were agreements between nations. If you were a signee, and your enemy was not, there was no agreement.

If anyone here can confirm or correct me, I’d appreciate it.

BRAVO, & upding for saying conventions, (4) I HATE when people say convention… it’s a dead giveaway!

251 jemima  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:21:57pm

Yeah, I appreciate and am in accord with their shock and dismay but the important question is does Kristen Breitweiser approve of it. Let’s give her another 15 minutes of fame, the last 15 seemed so fleeting.
/cough

252 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:22:34pm

re: #237 lobo91

Actually, nobody who’s at Gitmo is there for “shooting at U.S. troops in wartime.” The vast majority of people in that category are at Camp Bucca, which is located near Basrah, Iraq.

The ones who are at Gitmo are there for a reason.

You mean in addition to shooting at US troops?

253 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:22:36pm

re: #247 OldLineTexan

A man so tough that under his beard, there’s not even a chin…just another FIST!

/Family Guy scores occasionally

I wouldn’t know - I don’t watch that whole series of Holocaust denier shows.

254 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:22:48pm

re: #213 OldLineTexan

It’s difficult to design an intelligent conversation without some evolution.


I believe in the Big Bang theory of conversation.

255 J.D.  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:23:15pm

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

List of confessions

All of these plots also can be referred as ‘Second Oplan Bojinka’.

* The February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City
* A failed “shoe bomber” operation
* The October 2002 attack in Kuwait
* The nightclub bombing in Bali, Indonesia
* A plan for a “second wave” of attacks on major U.S. landmarks to be set in the spring or summer of 2002 after the 9/11 attacks, which includes more hijackings of commercial airlines and having them flown into various buildings in the U.S. including the Library Tower in Los Angeles , the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Columbia Center in Seattle and the Empire State Building in New York
* Plots to attack oil tankers and U.S. naval ships in the Straits of Hormuz, the Straits of Gibraltar and in Singapore
* A plan to blow up the Panama Canal
* Plans to assassinate Jimmy Carter
* A plot to blow up suspension bridges in New York City
* A plan to destroy the Sears Tower in Chicago with burning fuel trucks
* Plans to “destroy” Heathrow Airport, Canary Wharf and Big Ben in London
* A planned attack on “many” nightclubs in Thailand
* A plot targeting the New York Stock Exchange and other U.S. financial targets
* A plan to destroy buildings in Eilat, Israel
* Plans to destroy U.S. embassies in Indonesia, Australia and Japan in 2002.
* Plots to destroy Israeli embassies in India, Azerbaijan, the Philippines and Australia
* Surveying and financing an attack on an Israeli El-Al flight from Bangkok
* Sending several “mujahideen” into Israel to survey “strategic targets” with the intention of attacking them
* The November 2002 suicide bombing of a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya
* The failed attempt to shoot down an Israeli passenger jet leaving Mombasa airport in Kenya
* Plans to attack U.S. targets in South Korea
* Providing financial support for a plan to attack U.S., British and Jewish targets in Turkey
* Surveillance of U.S. nuclear power plants in order to attack them
* A plot to attack NATO’s headquarters in Europe
* Planning and surveillance in a 1995 plan (the “Bojinka Operation”) to bomb 12 American passenger jets
* The planned assassination attempt against then-U.S. President Bill Clinton during a mid-1990s trip to the Philippines.
* “Shared responsibility” for a plot to kill Pope John Paul II
* Plans to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf
* An attempt to attack a U.S. oil company in Sumatra, Indonesia, “owned by the Jewish former [U.S.] Secretary of State Henry Kissinger”
* The beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl

256 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:23:32pm
257 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:23:46pm

re: #253 gmsc

I wouldn’t know - I don’t watch that whole series of Holocaust denier shows.

I missed that episode. I don’t agree with the lefty politics, but there’s an occasional funny.

Again, I missed the Holocaust denial. That would definitely get my attention. Do you have an episode number?

258 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:23:52pm

re: #214 Silhouette

Exactly! The only reason these oxygen thieves are still converting food into sh*t is because of the information they had in their heads.

The fact that they weren’t fed to the sharks after that information was extracted from them is a tribute to the compassion and professionalism of the military and intel services that the left seeks to demonize.

259 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:24:05pm

re: #249 lobo91

Unfortunately, Wednesday is one of those exceptions. I have a followup with the oral surgeon who worked on me last week Wednesday afternoon, so I’ll be on my way down to Peterson AFB about that time.

Any other day should work, though.

I sent you an email, any time, any week, it don’t have to be this week. Whenever you are in town. I’m not going anywhere soon.

260 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:24:07pm

re: #168 OldLineTexan

Approval of assisting killers…bloody fantastic. He could eat a live puppy on TV and some moonbat would die of joy. How wonderful is life, and how brief.

To be honest, I was surprised at his favorable approval/disapproval ratio among both Republicans and conservatives. Lot more moonbats then I expected.

261 x-wing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:24:15pm

re: #220 UberInfidel67

Same here. York county has it Adams county doesn’t. I work with a guy that actually lives in York county but has an Adams county address, so he doesn’t have to do the testing. Really Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

262 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:24:31pm

re: #254 Jim in Virginia

I believe in the Big Bang theory of conversation.

A by-product of spending yer tender college years in Texas, even if it WAS next to The Montrose.

/

263 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:24:59pm

re: #256 buzzsawmonkey

Walter, please: “human rights” are a UN fakeout which is invoked in opposition to civil rights. We have liberty here, and civil rights to protect that liberty. If someone does not qualify for civil rights, that is their misfortune—but let us not get into the “human rights” swamp.

Ok, but you know what I meant.

264 BingoBunny  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:25:32pm

One of the worst decisions made in the war on terror ,, was to not shoot the terrorists after a short trial in country captured.. and time for them to gain life in prison by cooperation. Now due to liberal bleeding hearts.. we’ll have them all here.. out on bail (paid by rich supporters), with anti American lawyers.. demanding to interview (at USA expense) everyone in the division that captured them.. at least 3 interviews each.. on video tape.. called to Washington DC as witnesses.. harassed by TV reporters.. “did your home life make you want to torture poor Islamists, Sargent Smith?”.. and investigated over any lie the terrorists dream up .. I predict more USA soldiers will be in prison at the end then Terrorists..

/the new fairness of war.

265 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:25:33pm

re: #260 avanti

To be honest, I was surprised at his favorable approval/disapproval ratio among both Republicans and conservatives. Lot more moonbats then I expected.

They “forgot” to ask me, and I am pretty sure they didn’t check your party affiliation real well, but hey, good for the killer lover.

266 gmsc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:25:47pm

re: #257 OldLineTexan

I missed that episode. I don’t agree with the lefty politics, but there’s an occasional funny.

Again, I missed the Holocaust denial. That would definitely get my attention. Do you have an episode number?

What episode? I was talking about Seth MacFarlane.

267 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:26:02pm

re: #222 victor_yugo

yeah but they don’t believe in that these days instead of compationate conservatism, we have compassionate liberalism

268 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:26:39pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton

Ok, but you know what I meant.

No… not so much, chould you repeate?

269 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:26:40pm

re: #261 x-wing Well, if you know Beaver COunty at all, you would probably agree that we don’t need the emissions testing. They still rattle off about the steel mills, but THERE HASN’T BEEN ONE OPERATING HERE IN ABOUT 20 YEARS! lol lol lol

270 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:26:46pm

re: #238 FrogMarch

Andrew Sullivan has his arm up Obama’s butt.

Awful mental image there.

271 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:26:49pm

re: #241 jcbunga

When we caught the Germans in MP uniforms during the Battle of the Bulge, they were shot.

No trial.

No Gitmo.

No lawyers.

Up against the wall.

Un-uniformed combatants have no rights on the battlefield. They are assumed to be spies, saboteurs, or the like. The only reason they would be allowed to live is if they were thought to possess information, not because they had any claim to life. It would be honorable on our part to care for them while they live, but there is no obligation to do so. They should have been shot.

272 Elcid  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:27:01pm

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

Yep, funny thing about us Americans, we try to do things by the Constitution, and we do consider human rights, and a whole bunch of those other annoying little indicators of a civilized nation.

Life’s a bitch, isn’t it?

Look Oliver Hardy look alike…I don’t cotton (nor organza) to people like you…who in essence support the rights of insects. They should have been dead…PERIOD

273 carefulnow  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:27:01pm

re: #255 J.D.

Plans to assassinate Jimmy Carter? I did not know that.

274 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:27:06pm

re: #252 Silhouette

You mean in addition to shooting at US troops?

Yes. We don’t fly every dumbass would-be jihadi with an AK-47 halfway around the world. Last I checked, we had about 13,000 idiots in that category loked up at Bucca.

The ones at Gitmo are there because they either did something seriously bad, or they know something.

275 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:27:16pm

re: #266 gmsc

What episode? I was talking about Seth MacFarlane.

OK, I watch the show. Can you supply me a link where MacFarlane states that the Holocaust did not occur? I am genuinely interested in not supporting such a person.

276 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:27:46pm

re: #270 Jim in Virginia

Awful mental image there.

Someone has to move his lips and eyes…

277 J.D.  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:27:56pm

re: #273 carefulnow

Plans to assassinate Jimmy Carter? I did not know that.

Neither did I!

278 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:28:27pm
279 jcbunga  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:28:59pm

re: #271 David IV of Georgia

Un-uniformed combatants have no rights on the battlefield. They are assumed to be spies, saboteurs, or the like. The only reason they would be allowed to live is if they were thought to possess information, not because they had any claim to life. It would be honorable on our part to care for them while they live, but there is no obligation to do so. They should have been shot.

I agree, that’s my point.

Why are we even taking prisoners, let alone wringing hands over their rights?

280 MAV  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:29:06pm

re: #161 Alouette

Maybe he found evidence that The One is a strange visitor from another planet, sent to earth to spread Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

Wait you mean he is a Mormon ?

281 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:29:40pm

re: #278 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, I do—but I beat the “human rights v. civil rights” drum loud and often because the two are antithetical, and because the insertion of “human rights” into our thinking and our jurisprudence is a very sneaky—and effective—way of undermining the civil rights upon which our liberties rest.

well done.

282 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:31:04pm

Avanti, Charles asked you a question in #235, and many of us are waiting with bated breath for your answer.

283 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:31:17pm

Stalin and Lenin gotta be smiling in their grave.

The “messiah” could raise them from the dead and let them reign in new U.S.S.R.

284 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:31:40pm

re: #246 Silhouette

well for them in the dry climate they are used to to be in that humidity it must seem like torture, but hey at least they are alive to enjoy it…///

285 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:31:50pm

re: #282 victor_yugo

Not Avanti.

286 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:31:51pm

re: #278 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, I do—but I beat the “human rights v. civil rights” drum loud and often because the two are antithetical, and because the insertion of “human rights” into our thinking and our jurisprudence is a very sneaky—and effective—way of undermining the civil rights upon which our liberties rest.

I understand, and I agree, Even when I used it, I thought it sounded a bit to “Euro” but for what ever reason, I couldn’t come up with another phrase.

But, what I said still stands. I don’t care of certain people don’t like it, but we do have ways that we handle these things, and it is not by capturing, interrogation and then killing.

287 x-wing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:31:53pm

re: #269 UberInfidel67

Un-real, testing in Beaver.

288 David IV of Georgia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:32:15pm

re: #279 jcbunga

I agree, that’s my point.

Why are we even taking prisoners, let alone wringing hands over their rights?

Presumably they know things. If we haven’t found out by now, we probably won’t. So then we return to “Plan A” for un-uniformed combatants.

289 USBeast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:33:15pm

Man, a bear in most relations – worm and savage otherwise, –
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
Mirth obscene diverts his anger – Doubt and Pity oft perplex
Him in dealing with an issue – to the scandal of The Sex!

Substitute Western Civ for “Man” and I think we’ve got the heart of the problem.

290 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:33:21pm

re: #259 Walter L. Newton

I sent you an email, any time, any week, it don’t have to be this week. Whenever you are in town. I’m not going anywhere soon.

Hmm…looks like the OWA server I use to access that account from home isn’t feeling well.

Do me a favor and resend it, but change the “usar” in the address to “us” if you have a minute. Then I’ll be able to see it tonight.

291 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:34:08pm

re: #282 victor_yugo

Avanti, Charles asked you a question in #235, and many of us are waiting with bated breath for your answer.

I believe Charles was addressing “cardinalfang”

292 UberInfidel67  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:34:11pm

re: #287 x-wing
This county is so dead, our collective flatulence wouldn’t register. lol But Lawrence county doesn’t have emissions testing.

293 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:34:12pm

re: #286 Walter L. Newton

I understand, and I agree, Even when I used it, I thought it sounded a bit to “Euro” but for what ever reason, I couldn’t come up with another phrase.

But, what I said still stands. I don’t care of certain people don’t like it, but we do have ways that we handle these things, and it is not by capturing, interrogation and then killing.

Waaaah, you want we should sue them?

294 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:36:07pm

re: #290 lobo91

Hmm…looks like the OWA server I use to access that account from home isn’t feeling well.

Do me a favor and resend it, but change the “usar” in the address to “us” if you have a minute. Then I’ll be able to see it tonight.

done.

295 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:36:10pm

re: #275 OldLineTexan

google Macfarlane holocaust for info

296 Hobbes  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:36:21pm

re: #103 Taqyia2Me

Unfortunately, the new head of the IRS is a certified tax cheat.

Murderers, cheats and thieves, these are the people BHO has compassion for!

Maybe, Cher, can change her lyrics for him.

297 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:36:24pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

Not Avanti.

Gah, right. Cardinalfang…

298 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:36:59pm
299 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:37:31pm

re: #236 capitalist piglet

Am I oversimplifying this? I thought the Geneva Conventions were agreements between nations. If you were a signee, and your enemy was not, there was no agreement.

If anyone here can confirm or correct me, I’d appreciate it.

You are correct in your interpretation IMHO. The problem we’re currently experiencing is that lawyers and the MSM are arguing that all combatants are equal, based on a convention that was put forth a few years back that ‘revolutionaries’ be considered valid and covered combatants. The USA never signed on to that proposal (yea RR!). However, there are enough individuals out there arguing that every individual has a ‘right’ to a defense attorney and a trial, and that they be given the same protections that an American Citizen is guaranteed under the US Constitution.

300 claspur  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:37:34pm

re: #235 Charles

Charles…

You are awesome, I’ll tell you without making you blush. :o)

Thanks for letting me in to post after 20+ months reading this site.

Will keep reading this, and the bloggers…too good to toss-it away totally.

I find it a bit rough tho, the way I’m barked at.
You Sir, do an excellant job though. :o)

*here’s a kick in the head, that’s still kicking me…
around-about , almost three months ago, before I was able to get registered, Mandy said something that made me fall-off my stool laffing.
(literally)

Today, I still kick myself for not writing-down what she said…it was way too funny. ;o)

Keep in mind, been reading this show now for just over two years now, amongst other stuff. *sigh

301 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:37:52pm

re: #293 brookly red

Waaaah, you want we should sue them?

Look jerk, I have no problem with waterboarding, chemicals, whatever, short of torture.

My point is, not every prisoner deserve the death penalty. That’s what I have problems with. Some here are saying kill them all. That’s not the way we do it.

302 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:38:39pm

re: #209 avanti

Defending the constitution is not defending savages. Our system of justice simply says you can’t lock someone up a throw away the key without some sort of charge.
If you disagree, work to amend our constitution so the government can lock up anyone, anytime, and without charges. Sorry, but that’s a conservative reading of our constitution.

Terrorists do hot have constitutional rights. In fact THEY ARE NOT PROTECTED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS EITHER…what do you think of that?

This all started because the US supreme court took it upon them selves to dictate foreign policy from the bench when the constitution gave them no such jurisdiction in the first place.

Can you find me in the constitution where the terrorist have due process?

303 capitalist piglet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:38:43pm

re: #246 Silhouette

And because I know some soft-hearted folks believed the MSM implications that at least some of those at Gitmo were innocent bystanders accidentally caught up in the mess.


Every one of them claims torture.

My sister-in-law’s brother flew prisoners to Gitmo. He said they would routinely spit on and hurl epithets at the crew, but only if there were no news organizations around.

The idea that these are poor, innocent nice guys is a total liberal myth, as far as I can tell.

304 USBeast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:39:10pm

re: #298 buzzsawmonkey

Kipling upding!

Ooops, got in a hurry and forgot to note the citation.

305 Jim in Virginia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:40:17pm

re: #273 carefulnow

Plans to assassinate Jimmy Carter? I did not know that.

KSM had a crew of giant swimming killer rabbits.

306 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:40:59pm

re: #304 USBeast

So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.

Sent to you by a Female of the Species….

307 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:41:24pm
308 claspur  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:42:14pm

Dhimmi Carter can’t grow a peanut right anymore….let alone pound a nail on His ramshackles?

309 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:42:19pm
310 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:42:32pm

re: #235 Charles

You’re in Washington DC. Are you connected with a group that defends the Guantanamo detainees?

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

311 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:42:35pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

Look jerk, I have no problem with waterboarding, chemicals, whatever, short of torture.

My point is, not every prisoner deserve the death penalty. That’s what I have problems with. Some here are saying kill them all. That’s not the way we do it.


Does the term ‘deserve’ have anything to do with war?

312 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:43:37pm

re: #291 Outrider

I believe Charles was addressing “cardinalfang”

I replied in case he was. :)

313 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:43:47pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

Purposeful mis-statement. These are not “anybody”.

314 BingoBunny  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:43:52pm

My point is, not every prisoner deserve the death penalty. That’s what I have problems with. Some here are saying kill them all. That’s not the way we do it.

thats why a military court martial is called for: capture them, accuse them, decide which are guilty , which are forced at gunpoint, children ect.. shoot the guilty.. 3 days max.

315 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:44:24pm

re: #313 OldLineTexan

Purposeful mis-statement. These are not “anybody”.

PIMF, “anyone”

316 USBeast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:44:41pm

re: #306 nanook

So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.

Sent to you by a Female of the Species….

The message of that verse was hammered into me for thirteen years. We are now separated.

317 claspur  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:45:40pm

...

318 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:45:42pm

re: #303 capitalist piglet

My sister-in-law’s brother flew prisoners to Gitmo. He said they would routinely spit on and hurl epithets at the crew, but only if there were no news organizations around.

The idea that these are poor, innocent nice guys is a total liberal myth, as far as I can tell.

Some of the ones locked up at Bucca aren’t real pleasant either. They have the whole range there, from dumbshits who were paid $50 to plant an IED by the side of the road to hardcore AQI leaders. One of the main sticking points in our turning that facility over to the Iraqis is the fact that they (the Iraqis) can’t figure out what to do with some of those guys, either.

319 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:03pm
320 capitalist piglet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:03pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

Thank you for your service.

Do Constitutional protections apply to foreign enemies? That’s a sincere question. It seems counterintuitive to me.

321 latingent  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:31pm

Hmmm, Imperial Japanese and Nazi monsters allowed to return home after commiting atrocities and becoming accepted as gentelmen. Maybe Khalid Mohammed will become a middle east ambassador to the U.S. Wonderful.

322 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:35pm

Hmmm- doesn’t look like we’re going to get any answers from the long time sleeper.

323 swamprat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:35pm

No body ever cared about the Guantanamo prisoners. Never. It was only a tool to poke Bush in the eye. This is leftover liberal swill, and Obama has decided to eat it up with a spoon. Obama never cared about Guantanamo, either. It was just a thing that others seemed to care about. Naively, he is going through with it as if it mattered. Nobody cares. Bush is gone. The paint has faded on the old car. No body cares about the paint, or the rust, or the bad upholstery. Mom didn’t care either, she just wanted a new car, so the neighbors would quit looking down their nose.

The neighbors are still assholes. The payments far outweigh the better gas mileage. And the car is know to pull to the left.

324 nanook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:38pm

re: #316 USBeast

LOL. Upding to you, sir.

325 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:46:57pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.


Chief, when did the Founding Fathers ever note that the US Constitution apply to any one other than an individual in the USA?

326 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:47:12pm
327 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:47:52pm

re: #311 96RoadKing

Does the term ‘deserve’ have anything to do with war?

It does. Does a Talban fighter deserve the death penalty, Bin Ladin’s cook, or driver, the few dozen as yet charged with anything ? Before we kill them, I’d like to sort out who did what. Some were turned in by rival tribesmen for a bounty that may or may not be bad guys.

328 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:48:47pm
329 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #310 avanti

what rate? I was an AC

330 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:49:10pm

re: #311 96RoadKing

Does the term ‘deserve’ have anything to do with war?

Ok, look, I’m not going to play little word games here. I suspect someone with more legal knowledge or more military knowledge here can address the situation much better than I am stating it.

But I am quite sure of this. Just because we pick up a prisoner on a battle field, his final deposition is not always death. Some folks here are suggesting that every single one of the Gitmo and other prisoners we have detained should be killed. I don’t think that’s the way it works, in any era, in any war, at anytime.

If I am wrong, then someone correct me. Anyone here want to flesh this out?

331 sofa  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:49:12pm

stupid is, as stupid does

332 claspur  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:49:43pm

re: #323 swamprat

Sounds like you may have a neighbor problem, old boy? *sigh

333 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:50:36pm

re: #322 Sharmuta

Hmmm- doesn’t look like we’re going to get any answers from the long time sleeper.

But look at my 330, and flesh this out for me if you have a better understanding than me. It seems all I am getting is “kill them all” but no one can tell me if that’s the way it should shake out.

334 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:51:21pm

re: #327 avanti

It does. Does a Talban fighter deserve the death penalty, Bin Ladin’s cook, or driver, the few dozen as yet charged with anything ? Before we kill them, I’d like to sort out who did what. Some were turned in by rival tribesmen for a bounty that may or may not be bad guys.

why did they voluntarily confess in writing. Their idea, not the militaries.

335 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:51:30pm

re: #314 BingoBunny

My point is, not every prisoner deserve the death penalty. That’s what I have problems with. Some here are saying kill them all. That’s not the way we do it.

thats why a military court martial is called for: capture them, accuse them, decide which are guilty , which are forced at gunpoint, children ect.. shoot the guilty.. 3 days max.

The military has already separated them out from the peons, the forced, etc. As stated upthread, the ones at Gitmo were there for a reason.

336 claspur  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:52:22pm

Ruh Roh? The Chinese have a pollution problem? lmao

337 USBeast  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:52:26pm

re: #324 nanook

LOL. Upding to you, sir.

The other verse that applies:

“Unprovoked and awful charges; even so the she bear fights.
Speech that drips, corrodes and poisons; even so the cobra bites.
Scientific vivisection of each nerve ‘til it is raw
And the victim writhes in anguish like the Jesuit with the squaw…”

338 LGoPs  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:53:27pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

I have zero sympathy for any of them. And you make it sound like our troops just rounded up the nearest bunch of innocents from the local mosque for the hell of it…..

339 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:53:52pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

Look jerk, I have no problem with waterboarding, chemicals, whatever, short of torture.

My point is, not every prisoner deserve the death penalty. That’s what I have problems with. Some here are saying kill them all. That’s not the way we do it.

Awww, hommie why do I have to be a jerk? I don’t call you names?

340 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:53:54pm

re: #320 capitalist piglet

Thank you for your service.

Do Constitutional protections apply to foreign enemies? That’s a sincere question. It seems counterintuitive to me.

The Supreme Court ruled in June 2008 that they had the right to know what they were charged with and defend themselves. It’s the right of Habeas Corpus and goes back 600 years to the Magna Carta.

341 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:54:05pm

re: #237 lobo91

Actually, nobody who’s at Gitmo is there for “shooting at U.S. troops in wartime.” The vast majority of people in that category are at Camp Bucca, which is located near Basrah, Iraq.

The ones who are at Gitmo are there for a reason.

I don’t recall ever seeing any kind of a summary of that fact. Is that all classified, or does the general public have any kind of access to the why’s and wherefore’s of specifically what any of those detainees did, to get sent to the Gitmo Hotel?

Just curious.
.

342 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:54:34pm

re: #329 Marvo76

what rate? I was an AC

ET/ Electronics Technician

343 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:54:35pm

Found a lot of info that Seth MacFarlane is a leftist (duh) and that he contributed to BHO (no surprise) and that he put a McCain/Palin button on a cartoon Nazi uniform.

I cannot find Holocaust denial.

344 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:55:19pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

That’s what I call “Sympathy for the Devil”

Did you not think these terrorists deserve GITMO?

I know it’s a fad for liberals to deal with terrorism as a “law enforcement issue” which is why the Obama administration and leftist organizations wish to handle the “war on terror” in the court rooms. Have you gotten sucked in this madness?

In the 90’s, the terrorists issue were handled in the courts under Clinton. Guess what? They kept attacking, they kept coming from Kobar towers, Saudi Arabia to the USS Cole in Yemen and finally Sept 11, 2001, the rest is history.

Again, Terrorists are not protected by the Geneva conventions nor do they have due process under our Constitution.

345 BingoBunny  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:55:36pm

#319
DUH.. 99.9 % of the Germans and Japanese were captured in uniform… do you know what Illegal combatant means..? the Geneva convention is very clear.. too damn clear for the leftists. thats why this is so amazing to me, that the WOT got so far outa line so fast.. over what is clearly people who don’t deserve mercy.

second DUH do you think a uniform would protect any America soldier who falls into their hands?.. that includes Germans and Japanese from WW2.. not just todays animals.

I’d like to know who made the argument for the way we did this.. I think he/she is a traitor.

346 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:55:40pm
347 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:56:22pm

re: #335 Silhouette

The military has already separated them out from the peons, the forced, etc. As stated upthread, the ones at Gitmo were there for a reason.

Personally, I think the biggest mistake we made was sending them to Gitmo in the first place.

Nobody gives a damn about the thousands of detainees we have locked up at Bucca. Some of them have been there for years, and their living conditions are nowhere near as nice as Gitmo.

We should have built a detention facility in theater someplace. Northern Iraq, maybe. As long as the NY Times didn’t hear about it, none of this discussion would be taking place today.

348 swamprat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:57:28pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.


There I was; hiding in a tunnel, with my 4 AK-47s, 24 TOW missiles, and a canister of sarin gas, when these thugs rip up my door, and without so much as a please, or even a warrant, they point guns at me like I was some sort of criminal. The one I had shot the day before seemed especially agitated.
You’re not really a Navy Chief, are you? They have I.Q. tests and all.

349 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:57:40pm

re: #327 avanti

It does. Does a Talban fighter deserve the death penalty, Bin Ladin’s cook, or driver, the few dozen as yet charged with anything ? Before we kill them, I’d like to sort out who did what. Some were turned in by rival tribesmen for a bounty that may or may not be bad guys.

I guess I was a little too much into philosophical mode. I have yet to meet a combat vet that could really say that what they saw in combat was ‘deserved’ in a philosophical context. What happened on the battlefield happened. Undeserving individuals died, guilty individuals survived.

All I can think is that for those soldiers in the field that see fromer Gitmo detainees are returning to Sudan, etc. there has to be a growing incentive not to take prisoners, and that’s more troubling. Far better to quickly interrogate, adjudge guilt or innocence, and eliminate a threat. Perhaps I’ve become too jaded by the jihadists, but I’ve lost any sense of compassion for those wishing to do my countrymen harm.

350 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:57:51pm
351 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:58:04pm

re: #339 brookly red

Awww, hommie why do I have to be a jerk? I don’t call you names?

If you were really a “hommie” that little outburst wouldn’t even phase you. I haven’t been back to the city since about 1982. Don’t tell me everyone is singing kumbaya and hugging?

352 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:58:19pm

re: #246 Silhouette

And because I know some soft-hearted folks believed the MSM implications that at least some of those at Gitmo were innocent bystanders accidentally caught up in the mess.

Every one of them claims torture.

LINKY, please! That’s good info!
.

353 swamprat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:58:49pm

re: #310 avanti

Funniest. Post. Ever.

354 jaunte  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:58:55pm

Scalia dissents:
“The commission of terrorist acts by former prisoners at Guantanamo Bay after their release “illustrates the incredible difficulty of assessing who is and who is not an enemy combatant in a foreign theater of operations where the environment does not lend itself to rigorous evidence collection.” A consequence of the Court’s majority decision will be that “how to handle enemy prisoners in this war will ultimately lie with the branch [the judiciary] that knows least about the national security concerns that the subject entails.” A conflict between the Military Commissions Act and the Suspension Clause “arises only if the Suspension Clause preserves the privilege of the writ for aliens held by the United States military as enemy combatants at the base in Guantanamo Bay, located within the sovereign territory of Cuba.”

Justice Scalia added that the Court’s majority “admits that it cannot determine whether the writ historically extended to aliens held abroad, and it concedes (necessarily) that Guantanamo Bay lies outside the sovereign territory of the United States.” Justice Scalia pointed out that Johnson v. Eisentrager (where the Supreme Court decided that U.S. courts had no jurisdiction over German war criminals held in a U.S.-administered German prison) “thus held—held beyond any doubt—that the Constitution does not ensure habeas for aliens held by the United States in areas over which our Government is not sovereign.”
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

355 VioletTiger  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:59:18pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

avanti the constitution is not a suicide pact. We have a right to defend ourselves from people who want to kill us. I think it’s a good bet that once released these guys will go right back to trying to kill Americans. If preventing that means they stay locked up, I’m good with that.

356 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:59:34pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

If you were really a “hommie” that little outburst wouldn’t even phase you. I haven’t been back to the city since about 1982. Don’t tell me everyone is singing kumbaya and hugging?

Hommie, that don’t sound like yer sorry…

357 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:59:50pm

re: #327 avanti

It does. Does a Talban fighter deserve the death penalty, Bin Ladin’s cook, or driver, the few dozen as yet charged with anything ? Before we kill them, I’d like to sort out who did what. Some were turned in by rival tribesmen for a bounty that may or may not be bad guys.

We had a system in place…the military tribunals.

They are more competent then civil courts because judicial activism doesn’t run a muck in the military courts like civil. GITMO is used a intelligence gathering, we can’t get that in civil courts.

BHO is weakening our national security infrastructure all in the name of getting back at GWB and appeasing his BARR lawyers.

358 LGoPs  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:00:46pm

re: #340 avanti

The Supreme Court ruled in June 2008 that they had the right to know what they were charged with and defend themselves. It’s the right of Habeas Corpus and goes back 600 years to the Magna Carta.

Habeus has been waived before. These prisoners, who do not comport themselves with civilized rules of warfare, certainly constitute at least as much a justification for waiving habeus as was necessary for Lincoln during the Civil War..
Whether soldiers or in this case, terrorists, we are justified in holding them until the end of hostilities. Sucks for them that an end to the WOT is not likely to be declared soon……

359 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:01:22pm

re: #310 avanti

Charles, I’m in Annapolis actually, no connection with the detainee’s, nor great sympathy for the bulk of them. I was just defending the constitution. I’m a retired Navy Chief playing with Studebaker’s, but I get concerned when folks suggest that anyone can be locked up without a charge, but that’s just me and our countries founders concept.

Oh my gosh, you’re Kurt Austin!

360 NYCHardhat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:01:24pm

I really hate this man. Oh wait, I said that already.

361 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:01:37pm

re: #341 Tamron

I don’t recall ever seeing any kind of a summary of that fact. Is that all classified, or does the general public have any kind of access to the why’s and wherefore’s of specifically what any of those detainees did, to get sent to the Gitmo Hotel?

Just curious.
.

The reason any particular individual is at Gitmo is usually classified, yes. It’s not a general detention facility. That’s what Camp Bucca is for. There’s one in Afghanistan, as well, although the name escapes me at the moment.

At one point, Bucca held almost 24,000 detainees. I believe there are around 13,000 there at the moment. We’re trying to get the number down to something more manageable, so we can turn the whole place over to the Iraqis soon.

362 Hobbes  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:02:04pm

re: #323 swamprat

No body ever cared about the Guantanamo prisoners. Never. It was only a tool to poke Bush in the eye. This is leftover liberal swill, and Obama has decided to eat it up with a spoon. Obama never cared about Guantanamo, either. It was just a thing that others seemed to care about. Naively, he is going through with it as if it mattered. Nobody cares. Bush is gone. The paint has faded on the old car. No body cares about the paint, or the rust, or the bad upholstery. Mom didn’t care either, she just wanted a new car, so the neighbors would quit looking down their nose.

The neighbors are still assholes. The payments far outweigh the better gas mileage. And the car is know to pull to the left.

I think you’re partially right. I think it was a tool against Bush, and I think Obama is just doing this to satisfy the moonbats. But I think the moonbats
care and will still keep it up.

363 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:02:07pm

re: #336 claspur

Not only that from what I was reading the other day, they are having riot problems with pesants come to work in the cities that no longer have jobs…

364 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:02:26pm
365 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:02:34pm

re: #355 VioletTiger

avanti the constitution is not a suicide pact. We have a right responsbility to defend ourselves from people who want to kill us. I think it’s a good bet that once released these guys will go right back to trying to kill Americans. If preventing that means they stay locked up, I’m good with that.

fixed that for ya’

;0

366 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:03:06pm

re: #340 avanti

The Supreme Court ruled in June 2008 that they had the right to know what they were charged with and defend themselves. It’s the right of Habeas Corpus and goes back 600 years to the Magna Carta.

it wasn’t the supreme courts decision to make

367 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:03:33pm

re: #361 lobo91

The reason any particular individual is at Gitmo is usually classified, yes. It’s not a general detention facility. That’s what Camp Bucca is for. There’s one in Afghanistan, as well, although the name escapes me at the moment.

At one point, Bucca held almost 24,000 detainees. I believe there are around 13,000 there at the moment. We’re trying to get the number down to something more manageable, so we can turn the whole place over to the Iraqis soon.

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

368 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:03:59pm

re: #356 brookly red

Hommie, that don’t sound like yer sorry…

I’m not. Dense or something?

369 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:04:26pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

But look at my 330, and flesh this out for me if you have a better understanding than me. It seems all I am getting is “kill them all” but no one can tell me if that’s the way it should shake out.


I think we’re all looking at the same problem from different angles. To simplify, I see two scenarios: First scenario: a patrol is out and is fired upon from a building. Upon entering the building they find one adult male, but no weaponry. IMO no fault, no foul, but they take the adult in for questioning just to find out what he knows. Second scenario: same as the first, the only difference: upon entering the building, they find a male with a smoking AK-47 and the home-owners family held hostage and used as human shields. Question, adjudicate, eliminate.

370 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:05:12pm

I tend to think that they do, but unless they can offer a concrete reason NOT to take their medicine, Line them up and drop them…

371 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:05:18pm

re: #293 brookly red

Waaaah, you want we should sue them?

So what do you want? You have not said - just reacted with cute little phrases or plussed other people’s comments.

372 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:06:14pm

re: #369 96RoadKing

I think we’re all looking at the same problem from different angles. To simplify, I see two scenarios: First scenario: a patrol is out and is fired upon from a building. Upon entering the building they find one adult male, but no weaponry. IMO no fault, no foul, but they take the adult in for questioning just to find out what he knows. Second scenario: same as the first, the only difference: upon entering the building, they find a male with a smoking AK-47 and the home-owners family held hostage and used as human shields. Question, adjudicate, eliminate.

No, I am looking at it one way. We have “x” number of prisoners from this conflict all over the place.

Should each and every one of them be killed?

373 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:06:17pm

re: #352 Tamron

LINKY, please! That’s good info!
.

I got it from here, but they link to the original.

374 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:06:31pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

No, but any un-uniformed combatant was liable to be shot immediately.

Hence my statement that they had all outlived themselves.

Personally, I think they can all rot in prison for life, especially if they desired a martyr’s death.

Just to clear up any confusion.

But don’t feel bad…I asked several questions of a couple of people and got zilch in return.

Oh, well.

375 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:06:44pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

Sigh, it’s not a penalty hommie… you have been getting answers, but you just don’t like them.

376 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:06:52pm

re: #362 Hobbes

I think you’re partially right. I think it was a tool against Bush, and I think Obama is just doing this to satisfy the moonbats. But I think the moonbats
care and will still keep it up.

I think there are moonbats who seriously think that law-abiding Americans might one day be sent to GITMO. They think it is a gulag, not a high-security prison for serious monsters.

Of course, bomb-making domestic terrorists have nothing to worry about, they get tenure.

//

377 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:07:29pm

re: #327 avanti

It does. Does a Talban fighter deserve the death penalty, Bin Ladin’s cook, or driver, the few dozen as yet charged with anything ?

“I was just following orders” is not a valid defense for crimes against humanity. And I find it difficult to believe that OBL’s cook and driver are ignorant of the magnitude of his crimes.

378 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:07:54pm
379 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:08:09pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

I don’t know, I’m not part of the military. IMHO, they are the Pentagon’s problem. We pay them, we should let them do their jobs.

380 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:08:10pm

re: #376 ggt

I think there are moonbats who seriously think that law-abiding Americans might one day be sent to GITMO. They think it is a gulag, not a high-security prison for serious monsters.

Of course, bomb-making domestic terrorists have nothing to worry about, they get tenure.

//

Unless you’re McVeigh. Then you’re gone real fast.

381 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:08:12pm
382 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:08:14pm

re: #375 brookly red

Sigh, it’s not a penalty hommie… you have been getting answers, but you just don’t like them.

No, I’ve been getting personal opinions. And I have asked what is the legal or military or conventional way that this should be handled.

383 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:09:12pm

re: #371 Catttt

So what do you want? You have not said - just reacted with cute little phrases or plussed other people’s comments.

OK fair enuff, I want the military to deal with matters of war, not political types. Clear enuff?

384 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:09:27pm

This is interesting.

385 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:09:35pm
386 JacksonTn  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:10:14pm

re: #385 taxfreekiller

REMF

TFK …what does REMF mean? …please …

387 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:10:27pm

re: #256 buzzsawmonkey

Walter, please: “human rights” are a UN fakeout which is invoked in opposition to civil rights. We have liberty here, and civil rights to protect that liberty. If someone does not qualify for civil rights, that is their misfortune—but let us not get into the “human rights” swamp.

Good one, as usual, Buzz. That’s the weak point in the lib’s arguments — they seem to think that there’s no such thing as ‘qualifying’ when it comes to civil rights. A proven murderous, calculating, psychotic killer qualifies just as much as thee and me, in their eyes.

John Wayne had a lot of good one-liners in his long career, but I think my favorite one (referring to one particular outlaw) was, “He needed killing.”
.

388 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:10:32pm
389 victor_yugo  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:10:58pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

And I will answer your question with a question:

Should they die any less in Gitmo than in the theater of war?

390 solomonpanting  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:11:01pm

re: #4 CIA Reject

Obama wants to roll the calendar back to 9/10/2001 and if the media cooperates like they did with the election he may succeed.

It will be interesting to see what BO says and does this Sept. 11th.

“Let me just say a few words about this week’s attack upon our nation’s capital.”

391 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:11:18pm

re: #380 OldLineTexan

Unless you’re McVeigh. Then you’re gone real fast.

true.

392 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:12:28pm

Walter, given their non uniformed caught red handed they all merit a summary execution, the kept for interogation angle mitigating circumstances such as turning evidence to save soldiers lives SHOULD merit a reprieve of some sort. However, I don’t see that the “worst of the worst” should merit any

393 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:12:32pm

CHICAGO — A 14-year-old aspiring police officer donned a uniform, walked into a Chicago police station and managed to get an assignment — patroling in a squad car for five hours before he was detected, police said Sunday.

Only in Chicago…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

394 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:13:14pm

re: #386 JacksonTn

TFK …what does REMF mean? …please …

Rear Echelon Mother F**cker.

PX Trooper. Garrison soldier. etc… they don’t get dirty. rear support troops. ain’t looked the beast in the eye yet.

395 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:13:20pm

re: #393 Dustyvet

CHICAGO — A 14-year-old aspiring police officer donned a uniform, walked into a Chicago police station and managed to get an assignment — patroling in a squad car for five hours before he was detected, police said Sunday.

Only in Chicago…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

I saw that one too! secondcitycopy.blogspot.com is all over it.

396 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:13:22pm
397 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:13:32pm

re: #386 JacksonTn

TFK …what does REMF mean? …please …

not tfk, but it’s
Rear
Echelon
Mother
F****r

398 JacksonTn  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:13:55pm

re: #394 Outrider

Rear Echelon Mother F**cker.

PX Trooper. Garrison soldier. etc… they don’t get dirty. rear support troops. ain’t looked the beast in the eye yet.

Thank you …

399 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:14:00pm

re: #382 Walter L. Newton

No, I’ve been getting personal opinions. And I have asked what is the legal or military or conventional way that this should be handled.

OK, that is fair. If taken prisoner, then held until hostilities cease.

400 Silhouette  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:14:15pm

re: #381 buzzsawmonkey

Applying the civilian right of habeas corpus to out of uniform hostiles during a war is utterly absurd.

Taking the idea further, reading Miranda rights to opposing troops 1000 yards away before every single time you pull the trigger during war must be hard. I guess the bombers would have one of those banners flying behind like the planes at the beach. “You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford…(cont. on next plane.)”

401 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:14:28pm

miltary lawyer who has to OK airstrikes on taliban positins or Migh ly desireable targets?

402 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:14:31pm

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

No, and I’ve never said they do. The vast majority of the ones at Bucca will ultimately be released, one way or another. Some may be there for a long time, because they’ve already been tried and sentenced to either long terms or, in a few cases, to death (by the Iraqis, not by us).

The ones at Gitmo are more complicated. For one thing, they’re not a homogenous population. Some of them clearly belong either in a cage for the rest of their lives or in a hole in the ground (KSM comes to mind).

Some of them probably haven’t committed any actual crimes (war crimes or otherwise), but they’re in there because they had valuable information. They may not be of any further intelligence value, but we can’t necessarily just give them a new suit and a bus ticket and send them on their way, either. They’d just turn right around and return to the jihad.

In a traditional war, you hold onto captured enemy soldiers until after the conflict is over, in order to deny the enemy their service. Does that mean we hold onto these guys for the next 20 or 50 (or 500) years?

That one’s above my pay grade.

403 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:14:55pm

re: #366 Outrider

it wasn’t the supreme courts decision to make

re: #358 LGoPs


Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Simple question which I have been trying to get an answer too all up and down this thread.

Sure, there are a handful of real deal terrorists that were involved in actual or planned terror attacks that should be executed. Many will face lesser charges because they confessed under torture. Many others have yet to be charged with anything or were Taliban or suspected Tailban.

404 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:15:01pm
405 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:15:08pm

have a great evening all!

406 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:15:33pm

re: #392 Marvo76

Walter, given their non uniformed caught red handed they all merit a summary execution, the kept for interogation angle mitigating circumstances such as turning evidence to save soldiers lives SHOULD merit a reprieve of some sort. However, I don’t see that the “worst of the worst” should merit any

Your opinion or military law, practice, conventional way of handling this?

407 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:16:28pm

re: #372 Walter L. Newton

No, I am looking at it one way. We have “x” number of prisoners from this conflict all over the place.

Should each and every one of them be killed?


Although there are some who would espouse death to all prisoners, I’m not one of them. However, there are some ubernasties out there that we have three choices: a) keep them locked up for all time, b) release them and see them return to their previous life as terrorists, or c) eliminate them. You seem focused on the lowlevel peons. I think most of your responders are focused on the worst of the worst. But as is always true, generalities result in conflict.

408 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:16:39pm
409 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:16:41pm
410 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:17:09pm

re: #381 buzzsawmonkey

Applying the civilian right of habeas corpus to out of uniform hostiles during a war is utterly absurd.

I won’t argue the point since the court decided otherwise.

411 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:17:41pm
412 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #402 lobo91

No, and I’ve never said they do. The vast majority of the ones at Bucca will ultimately be released, one way or another. Some may be there for a long time, because they’ve already been tried and sentenced to either long terms or, in a few cases, to death (by the Iraqis, not by us).

The ones at Gitmo are more complicated. For one thing, they’re not a homogenous population. Some of them clearly belong either in a cage for the rest of their lives or in a hole in the ground (KSM comes to mind).

Some of them probably haven’t committed any actual crimes (war crimes or otherwise), but they’re in there because they had valuable information. They may not be of any further intelligence value, but we can’t necessarily just give them a new suit and a bus ticket and send them on their way, either. They’d just turn right around and return to the jihad.

In a traditional war, you hold onto captured enemy soldiers until after the conflict is over, in order to deny the enemy their service. Does that mean we hold onto these guys for the next 20 or 50 (or 500) years?

That one’s above my pay grade.

61 have already returned to terrorism. I think there are some 50 we don’t know what to do with as they will get whacked by their own governments if returned.

413 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:18:11pm
414 BingoBunny  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:18:29pm

#333

I have never said kill them all.. and never will.. I’ve said if he USA captures them in the field.. and they are judged guilty (quickly) shoot them.. if they are judged to be hostages.. forced to carry gear for fighters .. or turned in by some tribal feud.. then they are held until we reach a decision and turned over to the government in country to deal with.

/2 Germans in WW2 approach a foxhole with their hands in air holding guns and shouting “Comrade Comrade..”… “GI Joe jumps up and unloads his Tommy gun into them.. and yells to his buddies “those fanatic bastards charged me yelling that I was a Commie.” I fear shit will happen like that a lot more now, that B ho has his justice department running this war.

415 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:18:32pm

re: #402 lobo91

No, and I’ve never said they do. The vast majority of the ones at Bucca will ultimately be released, one way or another. Some may be there for a long time, because they’ve already been tried and sentenced to either long terms or, in a few cases, to death (by the Iraqis, not by us).

The ones at Gitmo are more complicated. For one thing, they’re not a homogenous population. Some of them clearly belong either in a cage for the rest of their lives or in a hole in the ground (KSM comes to mind).

Some of them probably haven’t committed any actual crimes (war crimes or otherwise), but they’re in there because they had valuable information. They may not be of any further intelligence value, but we can’t necessarily just give them a new suit and a bus ticket and send them on their way, either. They’d just turn right around and return to the jihad.

In a traditional war, you hold onto captured enemy soldiers until after the conflict is over, in order to deny the enemy their service. Does that mean we hold onto these guys for the next 20 or 50 (or 500) years?

That one’s above my pay grade.

Great answer. And no, I didn’t suggest that you did say they all should be killed. I was trying to get you professional opinion on this, at least in regards to what you understand as the military’s position.

416 akak  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:18:42pm

re: #411 taxfreekiller

Nasty to talk that way about the first lady.

417 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:18:52pm
418 Outrider  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:19:34pm

re: #403 avanti

Sure, there are a handful of real deal terrorists that were involved in actual or planned terror attacks that should be executed. Many will face lesser charges because they confessed under torture. Many others have yet to be charged with anything or were Taliban or suspected Tailban.

I’ve said nothing about executions. ALL of them made voluntary statements confessing their various roles and deeds. ALL of them asked for the death penalty. Publicity stunt? Who cares. They signed the statements voluntarily.

419 jaunte  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:20:59pm

Any reworking of the Gitmo prisoners’ legal process will require reworking of the Military Commissions Act, and no one has yet seen what that will look like.

“Prompted by the Supreme Court’s holding in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, an energized Congress understood that they could no longer remain on the sidelines in the War on Terror. Congress established the creation of military commissions, affirming quite satisfactorily that the MCA is consistent with the requirements of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions – the military commissions so established constitute a “regularly constituted court,” affording all the necessary “judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.”


[Link: jurist.law.pitt.edu…]

420 VioletTiger  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:21:23pm

re: #403 avanti

Sure, there are a handful of real deal terrorists that were involved in actual or planned terror attacks that should be executed. Many will face lesser charges because they confessed under torture. Many others have yet to be charged with anything or were Taliban or suspected Tailban.


Do you think it’s possible to separate the ‘real’ terrorists from the ‘fake’ ones? Would you bet your family’s lives on getting it right?

421 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:21:51pm

I got this from another blog…gives insight to the bureaucratic nightmare the that now runs DC.


VOICE: Probably? Well, that’s a very cavalier answer. You don’t seem to care about the implications here. Well, Mr. Bauer?

BAUER: I’m sorry, Senator. I didn’t hear a question.

VOICE: All right then. Did you torture Mr. Haddad?

BAUER: According to the definitions set forth by the Geneva Convention, yes, I did. Senator, why don’t I save you some time. It’s obvious that your agenda is to discredit and generate a series of –

VOICE: My only agenda is to get to the truth.

BAUER: I don’t think it is, sir.

VOICE: Excuse me.

BAUER: Abraham Haddad had targeted a bus train of 45 people, 10 of which were children. The truth, Senator, is I stopped that attack from happening.

VOICE: By torturing Mr. Haddad.

BAUER: By doing what I deemed necessary to protect innocent lives.

VOICE: So basically what you’re saying, Mr. Bauer, is that the ends justify the means and that you are above the law.

BAUER: When I am activated, when I am brought into a situation, there is a reason and that reason is to complete the objectives of my mission at all costs.

VOICE: Even if it means breaking the law?

BAUER: For a combat soldier the difference between success and failure is your ability to adapt to your enemy. The people that I deal with, they don’t care about your rules. All they care about is a result. My job is to stop them from accomplishing their objectives. I simply adapt it. In answer to your question, am I above the law? No, sir. I am more than willing to be judged by the people you claim to represent. I will let them decide what price I should pay. Now please do not sit there with that smug look on your face and expect me to regret the decisions that I have made because, sir, the truth is I don’t.

-From the season opener of “24″

422 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:22:21pm

re: #412 Outrider

61 have already returned to terrorism. I think there are some 50 we don’t know what to do with as they will get whacked by their own governments if returned.

The ones in that category are the least of my concern.

I see no reason we should be stuck with the bill for protecting these idiots from their own governments. Most of them want to be martyrs, anyway.

423 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:22:44pm

re: #406 Walter L. Newton

non uniformed in war time as an enemy combatant I would say it is covered under military

424 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:22:48pm
425 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:23:14pm

re: #382 Walter L. Newton

No, I’ve been getting personal opinions. And I have asked what is the legal or military or conventional way that this should be handled.


You’d have to get the opinion of an expert in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Unfortunately, the UCMJ refers to personnel in military uniform. The problem with Terrorists is that they don’t fall under the UCMJ, Geneva Conventions, or the US Constitution. I think it’s because of this that you have all this controversy.

426 Opinionated  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:23:38pm

re: #393 Dustyvet

CHICAGO — A 14-year-old aspiring police officer donned a uniform, walked into a Chicago police station and managed to get an assignment — patroling in a squad car for five hours before he was detected, police said Sunday.

Only in Chicago…

If you’re from Chicago it seems, qualification for and ability to do a job are not particularly necessary.

You just need to be “adorable”.

You can even become President.

427 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:24:44pm

re: #420 VioletTiger

Do you think it’s possible to separate the ‘real’ terrorists from the ‘fake’ ones? Would you bet your family’s lives on getting it right?

Unfortunately, we don’t get the chance to make that bet.

Some dumbass like Nancy Pelosi or Barack Obama gets to bet your family’s lives on it.

428 swamprat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:25:11pm

re: #310 avanti

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I’m going to take this public. Does every one of the Gitmo and Bucca prisoners (and any other at any other places, named or not) deserve the dead penalty?

Shrodringer’s terrorist. We cannot know until a trial.(Actually, we should know because of the interrogations)

Chances are ….no. Maybe not even half. The percentile would depend on the criteria for placing them in custody in the first place.

Are we holding them as punishment? Or to ensure our saftey?
By now we should know all we need to.

429 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:26:12pm

re: #419 jaunte

Any reworking of the Gitmo prisoners’ legal process will require reworking of the Military Commissions Act, and no one has yet seen what that will look like.


[Link: jurist.law.pitt.edu…]

The firewalls in the constitution have been breached. The Executive branch has the jurisdiction in the Constitution to deal with foreign matters. Now, the legislative branch is sticking their noses in gumming up the works.

This hinders our streamlined execution of “Super Power Whoop ASS” against our enemies.

430 akak  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:26:24pm

re: #427 lobo91

Unfortunately, we don’t get the chance to make that bet.

Some dumbass like Nancy Pelosi or Barack Obama gets to bet your family’s lives on it.

Maybe a judge.

/bong is for judges

431 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:26:30pm

re: #383 brookly red

OK fair enuff, I want the military to deal with matters of war, not political types. Clear enuff?

No. Barely understandable, and most unclear.

Do you think the detainees should have been held as combatants? Under the Geneva Convention rules? Because they were being held as illegal combatants, with no Geneva Convention protection, yet were being tried under the Military Commission Act, which was declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. So the law that was written - which placed their legal status outside of both our extant civil and criminal law AND military law, is unconstitutional. The way they were being tried cannot be continued under an unconstitutional law.

I am not clear on what they are going to do with these guys, where they will be housed, or how they will be tried/whatever at this point, but the military trials simply could not stand, after the SCOTUS decision, without further legal ramifications by the executive and legislative branch. Obviously, President O will not be pursuing that. Therefore, it was imho logical to suspend the trials, as President O did.

So - what military justice are you seeking? New law? Not going to happen. As combatants? Then they should have been treated as such from the get-go.

432 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:27:10pm

re: #428 swamprat

Shrodringer’s terrorist. We cannot know until a trial.(Actually, we should know because of the interrogations)

Cute observation. Oops, I did it again.

433 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:28:53pm
434 jaunte  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:28:59pm

re: #429 foxsecret

I wonder; if any of the funding we send to Egypt is used to build a prison, then is the Congress responsible for making sure Muslim Brotherhood prisoners in Egypt have the right of habeas corpus?

435 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:29:03pm

re: #425 96RoadKing

You’d have to get the opinion of an expert in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Unfortunately, the UCMJ refers to personnel in military uniform. The problem with Terrorists is that they don’t fall under the UCMJ, Geneva Conventions, or the US Constitution. I think it’s because of this that you have all this controversy.

The UCMJ has no bearing whatsoever. It’s the military penal code, basically. Only applies to US servicemembers.

The Geneva Conventions are not silent with regard to people in that category.

They are afforded no protections whatsoever, and may be legally executed by the detaining power.

We’re only in this situation in the first place because we chose to give them more rights than they are entitled to under the law.

436 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:30:30pm

re: #302 foxsecret

Terrorists do hot have constitutional rights. In fact THEY ARE NOT PROTECTED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS EITHER…what do you think of that?

This all started because the US supreme court took it upon them selves to dictate foreign policy from the bench when the constitution gave them no such jurisdiction in the first place.

Can you find me in the constitution where the terrorist have due process?


Just thought of another question: What kind of terrorists are we talking about, here? Does an American-citizen terrorist flying into the USA from overseas with explosives in his tennis shoes have any more or less habeas corpus rights under these definitions, than a foreigner would? Does a Beltway Sniper — being a terrorist by all definitions of the term — have more or less rights re: habeas corpus than some other kind of terrorist living overseas, or brought here from overseas to Gitmo?

Just trying to get a handle on the parameters of this thing. Sounds like a liberal trial attorney’s wet dream — he gets lots of visibility, and is paid whether he wins or loses.
.

437 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:31:25pm

re: #420 VioletTiger

Do you think it’s possible to separate the ‘real’ terrorists from the ‘fake’ ones? Would you bet your family’s lives on getting it right?

OK, I get that you don’t care to bother. So just lock the guilty up with the innocent to make us safer. Bush already screwed that up by releasing over half of them.

438 BingoBunny  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:31:44pm

I’ve been totally dumbfounded that we are not following the Geneva convention in regards to illegal combatants..

1. either the Army has the stupidest legal advice in history

2. the Arab oil sheiks got involved, throwing arround oil threats to keep their jihadis alive

3. or congress came to the rescue of terrorists..

4. all of the above.

439 jaunte  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:32:18pm

Blaming Bush doesn’t solve the existing legal and intelligence problems.

440 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:32:27pm
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who has offered unapologetic confessions for 9/11 and also brags that he was the assassin of journalist Daniel Pearl (“with this blessed right hand I beheaded the Jew”) sits in an air-conditioned cell, innocent until proven guilty, receiving three square meals a day, specially prepared to satisfy his religious prescriptions, free medical and dental (already meeting Obama’s specifications of health care as a constitutional right) and the free services of an army of court-appointed lawyers.

Mr. Burke forgot about the taxpayer funded lap dances. Guantanamo Bay always had the makings of PR nightmare and legal clusterfuck. Ultimately that’s what it became. The inmates there will all grow fat and die of congestive heart failure before the tribunals conclude and the firing squads commence.

I’m in favor of releasing all the Gitmo detainees. Let them make their way to a distant battle field where they can be shot and their bodies left for buzzards.

441 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:33:41pm

re: #434 jaunte

I wonder; if any of the funding we send to Egypt is used to build a prison, then is the Congress responsible for making sure Muslim Brotherhood prisoners in Egypt have the right of habeas corpus?

Nope. They do it here to our private businesses (strings attached if business gets government money) but over there…no way.

That falls into the realm of treaties.

442 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:34:07pm

re: #436 Tamron

Just thought of another question: What kind of terrorists are we talking about, here? Does an American-citizen terrorist flying into the USA from overseas with explosives in his tennis shoes have any more or less habeas corpus rights under these definitions, than a foreigner would? Does a Beltway Sniper — being a terrorist by all definitions of the term — have more or less rights re: habeas corpus than some other kind of terrorist living overseas, or brought here from overseas to Gitmo?

Just trying to get a handle on the parameters of this thing. Sounds like a liberal trial attorney’s wet dream — he gets lots of visibility, and is paid whether he wins or loses.
.

In both those cases, the law is clear. A US citizen terrorist, captured on US soil, is entitled to the same rights as any other US citizen who’s taken into custody.

443 96RoadKing  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:34:12pm

re: #435 lobo91

The UCMJ has no bearing whatsoever. It’s the military penal code, basically. Only applies to US servicemembers.

The Geneva Conventions are not silent with regard to people in that category.

They are afforded no protections whatsoever, and may be legally executed by the detaining power.

We’re only in this situation in the first place because we chose to give them more rights than they are entitled to under the law.

I bow to greater knowledge. Thanks for the clarification. It’s been a generation since I was under the authority of the UCMJ. Personally, I preferred the Articles of War. Little need for lawyers.

444 swamprat  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:35:04pm

re: #437 avanti

If any one knows; could you “reaganite” this?

445 akak  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:35:34pm

re: #439 jaunte

Blaming Bush doesn’t solve the existing legal and intelligence problems.

Obama just lost 15% approval support, maybe someone else is taking some blame.

446 brookly red  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:35:54pm

re: #431 Catttt

No. Barely understandable, and most unclear.

Do you think the detainees should have been held as combatants? Under the Geneva Convention rules? Because they were being held as illegal combatants, with no Geneva Convention protection, yet were being tried under the Military Commission Act, which was declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. So the law that was written - which placed their legal status outside of both our extant civil and criminal law AND military law, is unconstitutional. The way they were being tried cannot be continued under an unconstitutional law.

I am not clear on what they are going to do with these guys, where they will be housed, or how they will be tried/whatever at this point, but the military trials simply could not stand, after the SCOTUS decision, without further legal ramifications by the executive and legislative branch. Obviously, President O will not be pursuing that. Therefore, it was imho logical to suspend the trials, as President O did.

So - what military justice are you seeking? New law? Not going to happen. As combatants? Then they should have been treated as such from the get-go.

OK playa, it’s the Geneva Convention(s) there were 4 of them, please take note. Now as to unconstitutional, LOL these are not citizens so can that BS please they have no right to trials. So basically forget the talking points, the CO of the base is the only one with rights. Having said that, I would just keep them where they can do no harm.

447 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:38:50pm

re: #436 Tamron

Just thought of another question: What kind of terrorists are we talking about, here? Does an American-citizen terrorist flying into the USA from overseas with explosives in his tennis shoes have any more or less habeas corpus rights under these definitions, than a foreigner would?

More.

Does a Beltway Sniper — being a terrorist by all definitions of the term — have more or less rights re: habeas corpus than some other kind of terrorist living overseas, or brought here from overseas to Gitmo?

More.

Just trying to get a handle on the parameters of this thing. Sounds like a liberal trial attorney’s wet dream — he gets lots of visibility, and is paid whether he wins or loses.
.

US Ciitizen = Constitutional rights wrt being tried for acts of terrorism.

Now, American citizen caught in a battle in a foreign uniform…that’s a different matter.

448 foxsecret  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:41:05pm

re: #436 Tamron

Just thought of another question: What kind of terrorists are we talking about, here? Does an American-citizen terrorist flying into the USA from overseas with explosives in his tennis shoes have any more or less habeas corpus rights under these definitions, than a foreigner would? Does a Beltway Sniper — being a terrorist by all definitions of the term — have more or less rights re: habeas corpus than some other kind of terrorist living overseas, or brought here from overseas to Gitmo?

Just trying to get a handle on the parameters of this thing. Sounds like a liberal trial attorney’s wet dream — he gets lots of visibility, and is paid whether he wins or loses.
.

I have been talking about enemy combatants, the foreigners who have no national allegiance to a nation but to group.

If your talking American citizen then yes their covered under the constitution.

A foreigner flying over as a shoe bomber that depends which department wins the coin toss to for jurisdiction. Department of Defence or Department of Justice. Depends, but the DoD would need the intelligence then hand him over to the DoJ.

Under Obama it will fall under the Department of Peace.

449 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:41:33pm

re: #438 BingoBunny

I’ve been totally dumbfounded that we are not following the Geneva convention in regards to illegal combatants..

1. either the Army has the stupidest legal advice in history

2. the Arab oil sheiks got involved, throwing arround oil threats to keep their jihadis alive

3. or congress came to the rescue of terrorists..

4. all of the above.

I don’t quite understand your comment, because only Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to illegal combatants. It basically states that they are to be treated humanely and that the passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court. Obviously, they were treated humanely. The latter part - about sentencing - is over my head a bit - what they mean by a regularly constituted court I am not sure. I am thinking that the Military Commissions Act was intended to fulfill that part of Article 3.

450 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:42:19pm

re: #446 brookly red

You are as ignorant as you sound. I was hoping it was all a show, but apparently not.

451 VioletTiger  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:42:24pm

re: #437 avanti

OK, I get that you don’t care to bother. So just lock the guilty up with the innocent to make us safer. Bush already screwed that up by releasing over half of them.


I didn’t say I didn’t care to bother. As you point out, it looks like they already tried to identify the ‘innocent’. Some of them ended up right back on the battlefield. The probability of the ones who are left being the bad sort is pretty high.
So you make the call—do you want one of those released ‘innocents’
moving in next to you?

452 akak  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:44:24pm

re: #451 VioletTiger

I didn’t say I didn’t care to bother. As you point out, it looks like they already tried to identify the ‘innocent’. Some of them ended up right back on the battlefield. The probability of the ones who are left being the bad sort is pretty high.
So you make the call—do you want one of those released ‘innocents’
moving in next to you?


Yemen is building reform thingy’s for those one’s.

453 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:45:12pm

re: #450 Catttt

You are as ignorant as you sound. I was hoping it was all a show, but apparently not.

My hommie, brooklyn red is a jerk. LOL.

454 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:45:15pm

re: #393 Dustyvet

CHICAGO — A 14-year-old aspiring police officer donned a uniform, walked into a Chicago police station and managed to get an assignment — patroling in a squad car for five hours before he was detected, police said Sunday.

Only in Chicago…

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

From the article:

the ruse was discovered only after the boy’s patrol with an actual officer ended Saturday.

Think on this: This police officer worked with him all day and failed to notice he had no badge or vest on. huh? And this officer is out working, protecting the public?

455 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:46:01pm

re: #454 unrealizedviewpoint

Think on this: This police officer worked with him all day and failed to notice he had no badge or vest on. huh? And this officer is out working, protecting the public?

Maybe he was pleased with the coming of the Obama Civilian Security Force.

456 Marvo76  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:46:22pm

re: #454 unrealizedviewpoint

his astute powers of observation must have made him a highly qualified veteran… ////

457 Catttt  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:48:43pm

re: #453 Walter L. Newton

My hommie, brooklyn red is a jerk. LOL.

Word. :D

458 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:53:18pm

re: #347 lobo91

Personally, I think the biggest mistake we made was sending them to Gitmo in the first place.

Nobody gives a damn about the thousands of detainees we have locked up at Bucca. Some of them have been there for years, and their living conditions are nowhere near as nice as Gitmo.


Then why not just quietly pack up all of the Gitmo prisoners, ship them directly to a new high-security section at Bucca, and dismantle the Guantanamo prison facility? Is that just too simple of a solution?
.

459 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:53:36pm

re: #452 akak

Yemen is building reform thingy’s for those one’s.

Umm, yeah…last I heard, Yemen barely had a functioning government.

And the former Gitmo detainee who’s now running their Al Qaeda affiliate is a graduate of the Saudis’ “jihadist rehab” program, as well.

I’m not impressed.

460 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #458 Tamron

Then why not just quietly pack up all of the Gitmo prisoners, ship them directly to a new high-security section at Bucca, and dismantle the Guantanamo prison facility? Is that just too simple of a solution?
.

What’s Bucca?

461 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:56:28pm

re: #458 Tamron

Then why not just quietly pack up all of the Gitmo prisoners, ship them directly to a new high-security section at Bucca, and dismantle the Guantanamo prison facility? Is that just too simple of a solution?
.

It is now, since everyone knows we have them. Most of them have American lawyers. Never going to happen.

If we’d put them someplace like that in the first damn place, though, we wouldn’t be talking about it now. I guarantee you the NY Times isn’t doing any investigative reporting there.

462 avanti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:56:44pm

re: #451 VioletTiger

I didn’t say I didn’t care to bother. As you point out, it looks like they already tried to identify the ‘innocent’. Some of them ended up right back on the battlefield. The probability of the ones who are left being the bad sort is pretty high.
So you make the call—do you want one of those released ‘innocents’
moving in next to you?

That’s a “When did you stop beating your wife question. ” There is no guarantee that someone found innocent may in fact be guilty, and the reverse is true. This discussion is truly above our pay grade, but fortunately, we are a nation of laws, and our constitution and courts will sort out the right and wrong as well as is possible without our input.
I’ll drop off this tread now to maintain some Karma.

463 lobo91  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:58:50pm

re: #460 unrealizedviewpoint

What’s Bucca?

Camp Bucca is the Theater Internment Facility we operate in southern Iraq. It’s a compound out in the middle of nowhere, right on the Kuwaiti border.

That’s where the vast majority of the detainees from OIF are housed, not at Gitmo. Only high value ones go there.

464 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 8:16:04pm

re: #364 taxfreekiller

John F. Kerry is a retired Navy Lt.
like that

Kerry wasn’t in the Navy long enough to get retirement; he was still in the inactive reserves when he did some treasonous acts, as I recall.
.

465 Tamron  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:00:46pm

re: #452 akak

Yemen is building reform thingy’s for those one’s.

Yeah, Yemen has a good reputation for building secure reform thingy’s, all right. —Would that be the same prison where the planners who attacked the USS Cole tunneled their way out and got away, and nobody in Yemen seemed to care?
.

466 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:07:24pm

re: #454 unrealizedviewpoint

Think on this: This police officer worked with him all day and failed to notice he had no badge or vest on. huh? And this officer is out working, protecting the public?

“It’s the Chicago Way”

467 avspatti  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:09:30pm

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

And explain to me what Super-Max facility are they going to?

Right here in Colorful Colorado? Aargh.

468 Integritymatters  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:43:44pm

America wanted an unqualified black guy. We got him. Are we happy?

469 LeePro  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 10:17:22pm

re: #468 Integritymatters

America wanted an unqualified black guy. We got him. Are we happy?

Correction: America 53% of those who voted wanted an unqualified black guy.

40-some-odd-per-cent voted against the unqualified black guy. And scads didn’t vote at all — for black liberal OR the RINO.

AMERICA most certainly DID NOT want the unqualified black guy!

Idiot.

470 hyperion  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 10:18:42pm

Obama should set up a meeting between this family member and Dominique de Villepin, and have Villepin explain to him how much more he likes America without Gitmo.

471 Throbert McGee  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 1:21:03am

I wish it were legally possible to copyright the phrase “to out-Carter Carter” — then I’d kick back for the next four years doing lines of primo coke off Jason Statham’s rock-like pecs while the royalties just r-r-r-rolled in!

/harp arpeggio

472 claspur  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 3:03:02am

Late comment to this post…
Can we safely assume that this 9/11 family member didn’t vote for Barry Soetoro? *sigh
A couple of months ago, I Google Earthed Gitmo down in Cuba…had no idea where it was located?(sou./east edge)
Pretty cool view.

473 Canoe Train  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:51:08am

re: #302 foxsecret

Terrorists do hot have constitutional rights. In fact THEY ARE NOT PROTECTED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS EITHER…what do you think of that?

This all started because the US supreme court took it upon them selves to dictate foreign policy from the bench when the constitution gave them no such jurisdiction in the first place.

Can you find me in the constitution where the terrorist have due process?

Foxsecret’s comment here should be mandatory reading for those who insist that terrorists found upon a battlefield, out of uniform, have any “rights.” They have no rights. The GC spells this out. Others who have posted earlier have listed four things that one must have in order to fall under the protections of the Geneva Protocols.

474 Ron Shaw  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:58:51am

If you haven’t checked it out, “Party Of Defeat” by David Horowitz and Ben Johnson is a very good read. In their book it is very scary how closely Obama’s initial moves reflect those of Jimmy Carter and congress when he was first elected to the presidency. I am afraid Obama will continue down the same path as Carter. We are in for international terrorist as well as Marxist/Communist problems for many decades to come thanks to Jimmy and the Dems past and present. All early indicators show Obama and the current Dems in power are walking the same blame-America-first, anti-America, pro-Marxist socialism, appeasement first, foremost and always path with no contemporary Ronald Reagan type leader in sight.
I really never knew the obscene extent to which Jimmy Carter sold-out this nation then and continues to do it now.
The insane have taken over the asylum and they have complete control of the mainstream media which might well be fellow padded room mates from the outset. We are totally screwed folks…absolutely screwed!

475 Bullskin  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:48:41am

I remember when we felt ashamed in Spain when the first thing that zapatero aka the bipolar, aka “how cool and pleased to meet myself”, made was ordering the retrieve of our troops from Iraq. He voted a UN resolution which demanded more troops in Iraq, and after wards he proceeded just to show how cool he is.
Now, Spain is a real disaster, people in my family who have never been unemployed are now. Gays can marry, abortion is rampaging, separatist terrorism soaring, heading for 21% of unemployment, and socialism in pure state. This is what we voted for, but look at us when you fear what can Obama do. We are the canary in the coal mine.

476 MandyManners  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 9:14:20am

re: #111 cardinalfang

Stupid fucking idiot.

477 shaker  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 12:26:22pm

There is a Talmudic saying: When you are kind to the cruel, you end up being cruel to the kind.


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