About William F. Buckley’s ‘Sage Advice’

Opinion • Views: 4,136

Since Robert Spencer posted a veiled threat today to attack me physically (quote: “Buckley’s sage advice to Gore Vidal comes to mind at this point”), here’s an interesting article that deals with what Spencer calls Buckley’s “sage advice:” Ego & Argument — The Happy Warrior: William F. Buckley, Jr.

Note that Buckley himself thought of this incident as a serious failure on his part. It’s quite revealing that Robert Spencer considers it “sage advice” to lose one’s cool, threaten violence, and give voice to an ugly prejudice.

Buckley’s most famous debate occurred on ABC television in 1968 amid the tumultuous Democratic convention in Chicago. His opponent was Gore Vidal. The two men objected to each other profoundly and in every regard. The chase: Vidal called Buckley a crypto-Nazi and Buckley threatened to sock the insouciant “queer” “in [his] goddamn face.” Buckley was later ashamed of his outburst and published a post-mortem of the debate in Esquire in 1969. As Vidal put it, “having indicated that he lost the debates to me by ‘losing his cool,’ Buckley now hopes to regain by writing what he lost through performing.” As Buckley himself put it, it was “an emotional explosion which, it is said, rocked television. Certainly it rocked me, and I am impelled to write about it.”

In 15,000 words, Buckley exhaustively details everything Vidal had ever done to irk or offend him. See how many provocations he endured with a mother’s patience! See how he remained silent in the face of Vidal’s queenly green-room preening! See how he tried in vain to elevate the discussion while Vidal pulled it down down down until it wallowed in the most odious puddle of insult and indignity! After many pages, we arrive at the ABC studio that fateful night to behold our hero quivering under the weight of Vidal’s lies and itching terribly from the ambient fairy dust. And then it comes. The spark. The word. [2] Nazi. And Buckley freaks.

The famous cracking of the Buckley persona came not because Vidal had gone too far in attacking Republicans or capitalism or America. Not even because he had told Buckley to shut up or called him “the enemy of the people.” Many frustrated opponents had gotten lippy with Buckley and caused no ripple. But in calling Buckley a crypto-Nazi, Vidal made the one accusation Buckley could not abide: that under his fine jacket and his neatly combed hair, he was one of the kooks after all.

Indeed, Vidal affirmed that the exposure of Buckley as a kook (more accurately, a cuckoo) had been a long-caressed dream. In his response to Buckley’s Esquire piece (for which Buckley sued him and won), Vidal recounted Buckley’s explosion thus: “on Wednesday, August 28, at nine-thirty o’clock, in full view of ten million people, the little door in William F. Buckley Jr.’s forehead suddenly opened and out sprang that wild cuckoo which I had always known was there but had wanted so much for others, preferably millions of others, to get a good look at. I think those few seconds of madness, to use his word, were well worth a great deal of patient effort on my part.”

Ego & Argument contends that our arguments are proxies for ourselves—that when people attack our ideas they indirectly attack our credibility, intelligence, morality, and worth, and so cause us emotional pain. William F. Buckley embodied a strange inversion of this general rule; he had invested so much in his gentlemanly persona—and implicitly positioned this persona as evidence of the sanity and reasonableness of his political ideals—that an attack on him personally became the most violent assault possible on the principles he held dear. To impugn Buckley’s human decency and political sanity—not just call him an ass, but to call him a Nazi [3]—was not an ad hominem irrelevance. It was to say that the person Buckley claimed to embody, the civilized intellectual who was also a passionate conservative, was not only a fiction, but an impossibility. “If it can be said about me that I’m a crypto-Nazi,” Buckley wrote to his friend John Kenneth Galbraith, who urged him not to sue Vidal, “then it can be said of every vigorous American conservative.” After years of fighting his way into the mainstream with a broad vocabulary and a dandy touch, beating back the likes of George Wallace with his free hand all the while, Buckley was being cast into the moral wilderness. By a queer, no less.

(Hat tip: Euler.)

Jump to bottom

263 comments
1 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:09:12pm

I've always thought of Buckley as a gentleman.

And the gentleman in this dispute over pro-koln is certainly not spencer.

2 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:11:45pm

Threats of violence were of course out of line but it does not change the fact the Gore Vidal is an insufferable prick.

3 Macker  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:12:54pm

Spencer refers to himself as a crypto-Nazi. He mistakes himself. If he refers to Buckley's incident with Gore Vidal, that would make him a crypto-Queer.
He really should be more careful with the words he utters.

4 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:13:25pm

It's also worth noting that Vidal's use of the word "Nazi" had nothing to do with actual real Nazis or neo-Nazis. It was used as a slur. In this case the term Nazi was brought up by people with real Nazi affiliation, Nazi books, Nazi music, Nazi salutes, etc.

5 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:16:03pm

Meanwhile, at Spencer's hate site, his followers are screaming at him to sue me.

6 paint-right  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:16:08pm

I wonder if Buckley wasmore upset that he lost his cool at all. or if he didn't like to hear himself speak so bluntly - but honestly. Hard to tell from what is quoted.

7 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:17:29pm

re: #5 Charles

Meanwhile, at Spencer's hate site, his followers are screaming at him to sue me.

Isn't that a tactic of the people they claim to be against? The islamists?

8 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:18:09pm

Interesting that a sort of nazi apologist, would be aware of this quote.

9 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:19:33pm

Charles,

Sue you? For what?

10 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:19:37pm
11 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:20:16pm

re: #7 Sharmuta

Isn't that a tactic of the people they claim to be against? The islamists?

They should contact CAIR for some pointers.

12 LGoPs  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:20:46pm
Vidal recounted Buckley’s explosion thus: “on Wednesday, August 28, at nine-thirty o’clock, in full view of ten million people, the little door in William F. Buckley Jr.’s forehead suddenly opened and out sprang that wild cuckoo which I had always known was there but had wanted so much for others, preferably millions of others, to get a good look at. I think those few seconds of madness, to use his word, were well worth a great deal of patient effort on my part.”

This shows that Vidal's stated intent was to bait Buckley into going over the top. And I see the same leftist technique applied to this day.
Go totally over the top in your arguments and then feign indignation when the other side gets fed up with the bullshit and says Stop!
Childish.

13 lincolntf  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:22:55pm

There are very few words that actually cause me to have a physical reaction. They both happen to begin with "N", and on the rare occasions that someone has called me one of them , or someone else the other. I've entirely lost my cool. Nothing to be proud of, as Buckley notes, but sitting still for such treatment isn't exactly honorable either.

14 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:24:14pm

re: #5 Charles

In this country, you would have to have published untruths to be successfully sued for libel. England is different.
This is a temper tantrum, nothing more.

15 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:24:45pm

crypto-lizard............has a cool ring to it............

/apathy is the opposite of love.

it's a beautiful morning here
..........time for the Sunday bike ride

16 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:24:47pm

I have to wonder if spencer was not only threatening violence by invoking this incident, but also invoking the brussels journal article.

17 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:26:18pm
18 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:29:39pm

Has Spencer explained why he's not going to the Koln conference?

19 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:32:35pm

re: #18 jaunte

Has Spencer explained why he's not going to the Koln conference?

He's busy preparing a massive lawsuit against all who believe in reality.

20 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:34:16pm

re: #18 jaunte

Has Spencer explained why he's not going to the Koln conference?

Puzzling, isn't it? He continues defending the organizers, denying their neo-Nazi associations, but at the same time he cancels his agreement to speak at their conference. And he says I "smeared" him by saying he agreed to speak there.

Why cancel, if all the charges are nothing but lies? How is it a "smear" if there's nothing wrong with the conference?

21 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:37:46pm

re: #20 Charles

Of course this is because he wants to go. He knows they're Euronazis and doesn't mind associating with them. He just doesn't want to endure the accusation of associating with them.

22 vitoc  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:37:46pm

re: #5 Charles

The funny thing is, if both Geller and Spencer agreed in written form to come to Cologne, and we assume that they wouldn't have done this for free - doesn't that mean that Pro Köln actually had contracts with these two? And that maybe these clowns from Cologne are actually now in a position to be able to sue Geller and Spender for violating a valid contract? :-)

23 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:38:44pm

I would think that if my friends were wrongly accused of being nazis, that I would stand up and support them. I guess he's not convinced.

24 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:39:17pm

OT: In case anyone who is interested missed it last time. Morphed is going to be on the Nat. Geo. Channel again this week. Mon, Tues, and Wednesday at 5PM.

25 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:41:55pm

As I posted before, the nazis are never attacked, only those willing to reveal the nazis. And that is the most telling tail of all.

26 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:46:49pm
27 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:49:48pm

This confuses me:


Indeed, Vidal affirmed that the exposure of Buckley as a kook (more accurately, a cuckoo) had been a long-caressed dream. In his response to Buckley’s Esquire piece (for which Buckley sued him and won)

Buckley sued himself?

28 gmsc  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:51:16pm

re: #27 Ward Cleaver

This confuses me:

Buckley sued himself?

Well, it has happened before.

29 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:51:39pm

re: #26 Charles

His verbal attacks against Islam critic renowned as Pamella Geller, Robert Spencer and Lars Hedegaard have now led their participation in the Cologne Congress cancel.

3 birds with one stone. Nice.

30 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:52:38pm
William F. Buckley embodied a strange inversion of this general rule; he had invested so much in his gentlemanly persona—and implicitly positioned this persona as evidence of the sanity and reasonableness of his political ideals—that an attack on him personally became the most violent assault possible on the principles he held dear.

robert has also used his gentlemanly, "cordial" persona to make his political ideals seem reasonable. But unlike Buckley, none of this has been a personal attack. Charles has not called robert a nazi. He has pointed out that nazis are inviting robert to come speak to them. That's a big difference, yet robert still considers himself under attack. It is robert who is basically calling himself a nazi with this odd comparison and reaction.

31 vanderleun  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:52:42pm

I've always thought that the world would actually be improved if we brought back the two grand American traditions of 1) the phrase "So what?" and 2) the punch in the nose.

We've been woosier and wimpier since those went out of fashion.

32 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:54:04pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

3 birds with one stone. Nice.

This is obviously the "Charles Johnson of LGF losing his influence" effect we've been reading about.

33 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:55:23pm

re: #31 vanderleun

I've always thought that the world would actually be improved if we brought back the two grand American traditions of 1) the phrase "So what?" and 2) the punch in the nose.

We've been woosier and wimpier since those went out of fashion.

Um- then robert spencer saying "So what if they're nazis" and punching Charles in the nose would be better?

34 Fabio P.Barbieri  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:56:39pm

The fact with Vidal is that at this time of day, nobody would think of disputing anything with him. He has made himself so contemptible even with liberals that he has had to leave the country and go to some sorry provincial spot where they don't know him well and still take him seriously. (Italy, alas!) But in the sixties he had not yet made the ground completely sterile around him, and he could be mistakenly taken for some sort of author and gentleman. (He is, IIRC, some sort of cousin of Al Gore, and as blue-blooded as they come.) So Buckley had every right to expect a debate rather than the kind of debased baiting to which this vile creature subjected him. If I had been in his place, I'd have told Vidal to step outside and repeat it.

35 Anna D  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:57:57pm

I can't help thinking that all this bickering among various anti-Islamism factions helps the Islamists. Is it productive? Doesn't it diminish us? Doesn't it help the true enemy, the one that wants to kill us all if it can't convert us? Sometimes it is worthwhile to recall "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I'm just sayin'.....

36 Karagush  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:58:16pm

re: #33 Sharmuta

actually that would not be better.
but think about all the crud people say about what for instance Charles does that they dont like...
what if we just said.. "so what? He banned so and so its his blog."

many jerks could use a good "so what?" in the face. they dont deserve more sharm.
and it DRIVES THEM CRAZY.
and others do need a punch in the nose.

37 Fabio P.Barbieri  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:58:38pm

Sharmuta: anyone punching Gore Vidal in the nose would be better. But in this case there is a problem; the worse of the people involved is a woman - and a gentleman never hits a woman, even when she is a bitch like Pamela Geller.

38 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:58:41pm

re: #35 Anna D

No- associating with nazis is wrong, no matter who the enemy is.

39 Karagush  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 1:59:32pm

re: #38 Sharmuta

agreed. Not enough updings for that.

40 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:00:56pm

re: #38 Sharmuta

No- associating with nazis is wrong, no matter who the enemy is.

You would think that statement is so obvious you would never need to post it..

41 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:01:17pm

re: #26 Charles

Again, it points to the question you raise in #20....if there is nothing about these groups being neo-nazi fascists, then why cancel? If one is compelled to cancel, why defend them?

There is also another point appros to William F. Buckley - he felt the need in the early 1960's to distance the conservative movement from the Birchers - and the Birchers fought back and attempted to smear Buckley and the National Review for their positions to highlight, ridicule, and denounce the fringe John Birch Society. The effective and proper placement of the Birchers onto the far right fringe as opposed to being accepted in the mainstream of conservatism is what kept conservatism intact and contributed to its rise with the Reagan Presidency.

Fringe groups and their supporters will lash out with whatever tactics that they think they can get away with in order to get and hold their place in the mainstream. They do not belong in the mainstream. They belong cast into the fringe along with their reprehensible viewpoints.

What we are doing here is the same philosophical battle. Our opponents are as desperate as the Birchers because they see what they desire, and the opportunity it represents, slipping away.

If Robert, by the way, is attempting to paint himself as William F. Buckley in this, then his credibility as a historial leave much to be desired. Mr. Buckley, if he was still with us, would clearly be on our side.

42 vitoc  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:01:33pm

re: #30 Sharmuta

Charles has not called robert a nazi. He has pointed out that nazis are inviting robert to come speak to them. That's a big difference, yet robert still considers himself under attack. It is robert who is basically calling himself a nazi with this odd comparison and reaction.

This is a spot-on observation. Would anyone find it newsworthy if, say, David Duke attended a conference by the Aryan Nations? If McCain was invited to a conference by the Republican Party? No, not really. Making it a scandal that Spencer/Geller wanted to attend / were invited to / whatever a conference by a group with somewhat shady links to various nazi/fascist groups and individuals means in itself saying that Geller and Spencer are in fact NOT nazis or the likes, otherwise there would be NO point in making a scandal of it. So why does he act this way? The only answer I can come up with to that question is not pleasant.

43 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:01:41pm

re: #35 Anna D

I can't help thinking that all this bickering among various anti-Islamism factions helps the Islamists. Is it productive? Doesn't it diminish us? Doesn't it help the true enemy, the one that wants to kill us all if it can't convert us? Sometimes it is worthwhile to recall "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I'm just sayin'.....

"Enemy of my enemy is my friend" is very rarely a good idea. Almost always comes to bite you in the ass eventually.

These people are NAZIS. Why is that so hard for people to get? Nazis are a dealbreaker.

44 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:04:27pm

re: #43 ArchangelMichael

"Enemy of my enemy is my friend" is very rarely a good idea. Almost always comes to bite you in the ass eventually.

These people are NAZIS. Why is that so hard for people to get? Nazis are a dealbreaker.

I guess that sometimes you just have more than one enemy.

45 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:05:24pm

Ethnic/tribal separatism is not a forward-looking solution to anything.

46 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:08:46pm

Spencer, by the way, was reported to be scheduled to speak at Washington DC's American University tomorrow, at an event sponsored by the far right group "Youth for Western Civilization," which has ties to "racialists" and paleocons such as Pat Buchanan. But it does not appear to be listed at the AU website:

[Link: www.american.edu...]

47 Shug  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:08:49pm

re: #5 Charles

Meanwhile, at Spencer's hate site, his followers are screaming at him to sue me.

like I Said earlier.

Discovery is a real problem to him.
You can get the information which will both win the case for you and discredit him publically.
He probably knows this and therefore any talks of lawsuits are pure BS on his part.

48 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:09:57pm

re: #45 jaunte

Ethnic/tribal separatism is not a forward-looking solution to anything.

I kinda like tribal separatism in sports :)

49 teleskiguy  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:10:33pm

Bad craziness on the right. With this kind of shite going on, it will take a generation to get conservative ideals implemented in the mainstream. I'm just glad Charles is here to articulate and protect Buckley's form of conservatism.

50 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:11:40pm

re: #35 Anna D

I can't help thinking that all this bickering among various anti-Islamism factions helps the Islamists.

What really helps the Islamists: when idiots like Spencer and Geller refuse to shun fascists and outright neo-Nazis. This gives CAIR all the ammunition they need to smear anyone who criticizes Islam, by pointing to Spencer and Geller.

51 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:13:45pm

re: #26 Charles


It has a link to a"jew dog" cartoon, apparently drawn by a self proclaimed "jew". I can think of no better approximation of the american "uncle tom".
Can anybody translate this cartoon? (scroll down)

No way is this site racist.

/sarc

52 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:14:57pm

re: #41 Athos

Again, it points to the question you raise in #20....if there is nothing about these groups being neo-nazi fascists, then why cancel? If one is compelled to cancel, why defend them?

It's cognitive dissonance. The reaction in this case, however, isn't shame or self-reflection, but rather anger which is resulting in these emotional, outraged outbursts and violent fantasies.

53 Gus  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:15:42pm

OK, so here's the current situation.

LGF points out the neo-Nazi association of the pro-Koln meeting in which Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller have agreed to speak.

Other than Little Green Footballs, the majority of the right-wing blogosphere including Spencer and Geller insist that the pro-Koln is not a neo-Nazi inspired organization and that the "show must go on." Strange new alliances are formed.

Robert Spencer decides to cancel his appearance. No reason is provided other than a hint that it is because of LGF and not because of the neo-Nazi inspired pro-Koln. Meanwhile, the focus from the far-right is the image of Filip DeWinter and attorney to neo-Nazi Axel Reitz, Markus Beisicht (pro-Koln).

Robert Spencer still refuses to confront the issue at hand and instead pulls out the victim card and play martyr to some unsaid cause. Rather than confront his neo-Nazi allies he continues his attack against LGF.

Fascinating.

No word yet on the neo-Nazi CD collection of Manfred Rouhs (por-Koln) which he hosted on a website with the same ISP as the official pro-Koln website.

54 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:17:42pm

re: #51 swamprat

It has a link to a"jew dog" cartoon, apparently drawn by a self proclaimed "jew". I can think of no better approximation of the american "uncle tom".
Can anybody translate this cartoon? (scroll down)

No way is this site racist.

/sarc

The cartoon is stupid but not anti-Semitic.

55 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:18:41pm

re: #54 Alouette

The cartoon is stupid but not anti-Semitic.

But what is the speech he delivers to the crowd?

56 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:19:43pm

Obama is the new "chef" of the United States? Who knew?

"I'm just on the LGF Kommnetare through - apparently the United States always move in the direction of a pro Islamic line, as far as I am also not surprised.
Seit Barrack HUSSEIN “chef” der USA ist, küssen die anscheinend nur noch die Ärsche der Musels genau wie hier in diesem verlorenen Land. Since Barrack HUSSEIN "chef" of the U.S. is, apparently, only to kiss the asses of still Musel just like here in this lost country.

Egal abgerechnet wird am Schluss. No matter will be settled at the end.

22.12.2012 22.12.2012
HOFFENTLICH! Hopefully!"

I wonder what's supposed to happen on 12/22/12?

57 dmandman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:21:15pm

re: #56 Pvt Bin Jammin

Is that the day the electoral college meets for the 2012 election?

58 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:21:19pm

I've read Gore Vidal and Buckely.

People like Gore Vidal get a pass for saying vile things because they are not held to any standard of decency.

People like Buckley do not get a pass when they say vile things because they are held to a very high standard of decency.

Which standard does Spencer wish to fall under?

59 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:22:03pm

re: #56 Pvt Bin Jammin

Isn't that the supposed doomsday predicted by the Mayan calendar?

60 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:22:15pm

re: #57 dmandman

Is that the day the electoral college meets for the 2012 election?

You're probably right.

61 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:22:56pm

re: #58 rightymouse

I've read Gore Vidal and Buckely.

People like Gore Vidal get a pass for saying vile things because they are not held to any standard of decency.

People like Buckley do not get a pass when they say vile things because they are held to a very high standard of decency.

Which standard does Spencer wish to fall under?

To me, that position is quite clear....and an upding for you.

62 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:23:02pm

re: #59 Athos

Isn't that the supposed doomsday predicted by the Mayan calendar?

Now you're going to have me googling that date. LOL

63 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:24:02pm

re: 57 & 59, I think it's both no?

64 hellosnackbar  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:24:31pm

William F Buckley did some TV programs for the BBC in the late sixties
called "in the firing line" in which he interviewed ,in depth ,various people
with the style of a top advocate.
But the last one in the series was the most interesting; in which he placed himself in the firing line of a coterie of Britains most famous leftwing
intellectuals.
The result was ;that he wiped the floor with them ,(causing my departure
from left wing sympathies);just by applying rational common sense.
A magnificent man of serious intellect;whose articulate use of the English language was second to non.

65 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:25:05pm

re: #59 Athos

Isn't that the supposed doomsday predicted by the Mayan calendar?

Nah. That happens a day earlier.

Or not.

66 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:25:12pm

re: #55 swamprat

But what is the speech he delivers to the crowd?

Truthfully I say to you, good is evil, and evil is good! Extend your hand to the murderer, so that he may happily embrace you. Go as lambs unto the wolves, so that they can cuddle you with affection. Donate to those who already possess everything, and they will be grateful. Kiss the hands of those who want to wipe you out, it will please them. Be peaceful to all those who hate you according to their religion, and say you are ready to make peace, and your silliness is their victory.

67 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:26:27pm

re: #66 Alouette


Thanks much!

68 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:26:56pm

Gore Vidal's Anti-Jewish Nationalism

[Link: resources.metapress.com...]

69 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:26:57pm
70 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:28:55pm
71 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:30:15pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, indeed. He intends to cook our goose.

He really did a restaurant review:

Barack Obama on Check, Please!

72 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:30:21pm

re: #65 jwb7605

Nah. That happens a day earlier.

Or not.

Ah, thanks for the correction!

73 SpartanWoman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:30:42pm
People like Gore Vidal get a pass for saying vile things because they are not held to any standard of decency.

This is a horrendous mistake. A single standard must prevail.

74 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:30:47pm

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, indeed. He intends to cook our goose.

Indeed. LOL

75 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:31:15pm

"Does anyone know what's sage?"
"anyone?"
"Anyone?"
"Euler...."

76 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:31:18pm

re: #56 Pvt Bin Jammin


I wonder what's supposed to happen on 12/22/12?

Doom ! I tells ya .. we is going to be invaded by lolcats with interstellar cheezburgerz ... its all going to end ! Tinfoil hats just wont work ... the lolcats will take over everything !

/rant over - Tinfoil hat at the ready.

77 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:31:37pm

re: #70 buzzsawmonkey

Tiny text, and only one page of what is clearly a longer article.

It's a jpeg. If you're using FireFox, install ImageZoom

78 SpartanWoman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:32:27pm

re: #70 buzzsawmonkey

Tiny text, and only one page of what is clearly a longer article.

Vidal really was a POS, wasn't he?

79 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:32:52pm

re: #76 Buster Bunny

Doom ! I tells ya .. we is going to be invaded by lolcats with interstellar cheezburgerz ... its all going to end ! Tinfoil hats just wont work ... the lolcats will take over everything !

/rant over - Tinfoil hat at the ready.

Don't forget the chuppacabra!

81 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #61 Athos

To me, that position is quite clear....and an upding for you.

Thanks.

Spencer should welcome the criticism/concern and appreciate it accordingly. Silence from those paying attention is not necessarily a good thing.

82 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:33:54pm
83 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:34:28pm

re: #80 Charles

Little Green Footballs forges photo and writes arrogant lies!

Considering they're peddling lies, I find the mane of that blog highly ironic.

84 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:35:02pm

re: #80 Charles

Little Green Footballs forges photo and writes arrogant lies!

I made a comment several months ago that eventually you'd make a mistake, because you're human. Given your record, you're statistically safe for about 4-5 years.

85 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:35:17pm

re: #65 jwb7605

Nah. That happens a day earlier.

Or not.

Will doomsday be broadcast by the MSM? Or will we all just be doomed and not hear anything about it? Or .. worse .. will the only people who will actually be doomed .. watch FOX?

/receiving hate emails now from other planetary systems inhabited by interstellar cats who just happen to like cheeseburgers.

86 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:35:47pm

re: #70 buzzsawmonkey

Tiny text, and only one page of what is clearly a longer article.

Yes, it's an abstract from Society.
Gore Vidal’s Anti-Jewish nationalism
Journal Society
Publisher Springer New York
ISSN 0147-2011 (Print) 1936-4725 (Online)
Issue Volume 25, Number 3 / March, 1988

The entire article is down-loadable but there's a charge.
[Link: www.springerlink.com...]
Edward Alexander is a well pro-Israel writer as you no doubt are already aware.

87 Gus  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:36:32pm

re: #80 Charles

Little Green Footballs forges photo and writes arrogant lies!

The title reminds me of WWII Nazi propaganda:

"Arrogant lies of the Americans that will invade our homeland!" //

88 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:36:49pm

re: #84 jwb7605

I made a comment several months ago that eventually you'd make a mistake, because you're human. Given your record, you're statistically safe for about 4-5 years.

It would be different if the headline there was a mistake photo was used, but they're saying Charles faked the picture, which is a blatant lie.

89 LionofDixon  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:37:04pm

I miss Bill. Buckley said that his biggest accomplishment was helping rid the conservative movement of the kooks. Funny how no leader on the left would ever dare make that statment. To the contrary, the left seems to groom and welcome radicals and nutjobs, and make no apology for them.

90 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:37:14pm

re: #73 SpartanWoman

This is a horrendous mistake. A single standard must prevail.


I wish. But people like Vidal will always get a pass from people passing themselves off as elite intellectuals when Buckley had a far superior mind and intellect.

91 SpartanWoman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:37:18pm

re: #82 buzzsawmonkey

What do you mean, "was"? He's still alive, and cranking it out.

He seems so dead, so irrelevant...alas.

92 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:37:35pm

re: #85 Buster Bunny

Will doomsday be broadcast by the MSM? Or will we all just be doomed and not hear anything about it? Or .. worse .. will the only people who will actually be doomed .. watch FOX?

/receiving hate emails now from other planetary systems inhabited by interstellar cats who just happen to like cheeseburgers.

It depends on whether Obama gets re-elected.
(A) If he does, the MSM willl be broadcasting the "temporary downturn", with talking-head quotes from Obama's cabinet, and how another TARP will fix things.

(B) Otherwise, they'll be off the air permanently.

I vote for plan B.

93 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:37:40pm

re: #80 Charles

"Arrogant". That's a "tell".
You need to know your place.

94 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:38:19pm

re: #75 Thanos

"Does anyone know what's sage?"
"anyone?"
"Anyone?"
"Euler...."


Are you talking about the herb?

95 SpartanWoman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:39:05pm

re: #90 rightymouse

I wish. But people like Vidal will always get a pass from people passing themselves off as elite intellectuals when Buckley had a far superior mind and intellect.

Especially if we choose to let them, and not make an issue of their outrageous behavior while we pick each other apart for any slight variance from some nebulous orthodoxy.

96 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:39:12pm

re: #80 Charles

Little Green Footballs forges photo and writes arrogant lies!

Dont forget you add the flicker to memos. I'm quite sure the flicker wasnt there before. And it was really written by George W Bush and not by the MSM and created in a font years ahead of its time.

/what will they accuse Charles of next?

97 Anna D  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:39:45pm

re: Charles #50, your point is well taken. I'm just feeling like we are losing. With O-bummer now enthroned and his far-left Congress supporting him, I'm just getting really concerned that we will lose.

98 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:41:09pm

re: #56 Pvt Bin Jammin

Chef means "Chief" in German.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 12/22/2012 stuff is related to Mayan Calendar moonbattery and they are just a day off. The Electoral College votes on 12/17/2012.

99 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:41:51pm

re: #97 Anna D

re: Charles #50, your point is well taken. I'm just feeling like we are losing. With O-bummer now enthroned and his far-left Congress supporting him, I'm just getting really concerned that we will lose.

The moment one aligns with nazis, they have already conceded defeat.

100 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:42:10pm

re: #97 Anna D

re: Charles #50, your point is well taken. I'm just feeling like we are losing. With O-bummer now enthroned and his far-left Congress supporting him, I'm just getting really concerned that we will lose.

Dont gravitate towards the negatives. We are aware now that we are in a fight not just for our freedoms .. but for our right to exist within those freedoms. And it may seem that knowing this is the worst comfort.

But stay fast. Its always darkest before the dawn .. and we have a lot of work to do.

101 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:42:16pm

re: #97 Anna D

re: Charles #50, your point is well taken. I'm just feeling like we are losing. With O-bummer now enthroned and his far-left Congress supporting him, I'm just getting really concerned that we will lose.

Lose what? Four years is all we can "lose". Eight at most. Hell we might be wrong and the guy turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread.
It could happen.

102 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:42:38pm

re: #95 SpartanWoman

Especially if we choose to let them, and not make an issue of their outrageous behavior while we pick each other apart for any slight variance from some nebulous orthodoxy.

Self-criticism is healthy. It's the unwillingness or inability to put a spotlight on the unhealthy issues that divide our party that is so smothering and bothersome. On the other hand, we need to learn which battles to pick and which ones to leave alone.

103 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:42:42pm

re: #97 Anna D

re: Charles #50, your point is well taken. I'm just feeling like we are losing. With O-bummer now enthroned and his far-left Congress supporting him, I'm just getting really concerned that we will lose.

Only if we stop fighting.....and if we allow ourselves to ally or be associated with such cretins that those in the middle write us off as kooks. Then we become irrelevant and without the foundation to influence.

104 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:42:46pm

re: #96 Buster Bunny

They forgot to mention that Charles possesses magical will-sapping Lizard rays which can influence people to reject their invitations to speak at perfectly non-nazified anti-jihad conferences and begin posting silliness on websites instead.

105 LGoPs  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:43:07pm

re: #98 ArchangelMichael

Chef means "Chief" in German.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 12/22/2012 stuff is related to Mayan Calendar moonbattery and they are just a day off. The Electoral College votes on 12/17/2012.

Uh oh. I just checked and my new credit card expires on 12/12. Do you think the bank knows something I don't know?
/

106 SpartanWoman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:43:21pm

re: #97 Anna D

re: Charles #50, your point is well taken. I'm just feeling like we are losing. With O-bummer now enthroned and his far-left Congress supporting him, I'm just getting really concerned that we will lose.

I agree, Anna. While Obama undermines the economy, promotes his ACORN buddies with our money, and destroys our credibility on the global stage, the press swoons over his dog, his pecs, his wife.

107 SpartanWoman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:44:31pm

re: #102 rightymouse

Self-criticism is healthy. It's the unwillingness or inability to put a spotlight on the unhealthy issues that divide our party that is so smothering and bothersome. On the other hand, we need to learn which battles to pick and which ones to leave alone.

Self criticism is not healthy when it becomes an obsession and a blindness.

108 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:44:42pm

re: #98 ArchangelMichael

Chef means "Chief" in German.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 12/22/2012 stuff is related to Mayan Calendar moonbattery and they are just a day off. The Electoral College votes on 12/17/2012.

I'm sure I does mean "chief". I just couldn't resist poking fun.

I'm seriously thinking he's talking about the Mayan calendar too. If it ends on 12/21 then it seems logical to me that 12/22 would be the beginning of whatever.

109 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:44:47pm

re: #80 Charles

It was good of Gegentrik to go and reply to some of the comments although I understand little of what was said.

110 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:44:56pm

re: #98 ArchangelMichael

Chef means "Chief" in German.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 12/22/2012 stuff is related to Mayan Calendar moonbattery and they are just a day off. The Electoral College votes on 12/17/2012.

Well, that fits for the neo-nazi's - they were a day late when it came to showing up to get a dose of humanity and common sense.

111 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:45:05pm

re: #104 jaunte

They forgot to mention that Charles possesses magical will-sapping Lizard rays which can influence people to reject their invitations to speak at perfectly non-nazified anti-jihad conferences and begin posting silliness on websites instead.

Yes I forget about the Lizard ability to control minds by revealing the truth. Its that damnable truth thing. It gets in the way of so many incomprehensible power crazed lunatics fantasies.

112 LGoPs  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:45:06pm

re: #102 rightymouse

Self-criticism is healthy. It's the unwillingness or inability to put a spotlight on the unhealthy issues that divide our party that is so smothering and bothersome. On the other hand, we need to learn which battles to pick and which ones to leave alone.

Good point. You have to choose your battles. When you make everything a battle, then the problem becomes the least common denominator, namely you.

113 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:45:33pm

I have read Buckley and spenser you are no Buckley, now videl might be a different story.

114 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:45:33pm

re: #105 LGoPs

Obama's first act in his second term is to abolish money as we join the United Federation of Reptilian Colonies?

/

115 JHW  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:46:43pm

This argument constantly thrown out that we need all the allies we can get, no matter their associations, frankly sucks pond water. I'm not so terrified of the jihadists that I'm going to run around like a panic-stricken, sky-is-falling chicken, afraid of my own shadow. And our Armed Forces certainly aren't cowering somewhere wringing their hands. I spent most of my life with over 10,000 Soviet thermonuclear warheads aimed at our country, along with a couple of hot wars that took tens of thousands of our soldiers' lives. Calm is something sorely lacking in a certain segment of the anti-jihad movement. And meanwhile, the man behind the curtain, "Vlad", seems to be intent on revisiting the worst parts of his country's past. That one has me more than a bit worried.

Meanwhile, life is to enjoy, not endure.

116 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:48:50pm

re: #101 swamprat

Lose what? Four years is all we can "lose". Eight at most. Hell we might be wrong and the guy turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread.
It could happen.


Sorry ,, but thats naive

If (when) Obama and the Dems legalize 30 million illegal aliens, they just picked up that many votes in national elections for DECADES. Where does the right make up 30 million?

117 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:49:34pm

re: #115 JHW

Meanwhile, life is to enjoy, not endure.

Well said.....I wish I had more than one upding to give your post.

(Isn't it funny that the enemies of freedom and individual rights just hate the fact that life is to enjoy, not endure?)

118 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:49:38pm

Of course, all this nazi talk is without merit. They only reply by saying; "some of our best friends are jews and muslims".

They argue about the background of a picture and ignore the two people shaking hands.

I'm sure god loves them,
...but they make me very, very nervous.

119 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:49:48pm

re: #108 Pvt Bin Jammin

I'm sure I does mean "chief". I just couldn't resist poking fun.

I'm seriously thinking he's talking about the Mayan calendar too. If it ends on 12/21 then it seems logical to me that 12/22 would be the beginning of whatever.

I've watched the entire Hysterical Channel series (in segments ... can't stomach back-to-back-to-back doomsday crap).

I like the Hopi Indian predictions: When the "change" occurs, the people unable to embrace drastic change in their life will die of fear -- immediate soul-consuming type fear.

We may live through interesting times.

120 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:50:38pm

i will not get in bed with NAZI'S, COMMIES, ANARCHIST OR ISLMO FASCISTS

.

121 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:51:16pm
122 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:51:37pm

There is another glaring problem with spencer's Buckley-Vidal analogy in that Buckley later regretted what he said. Somehow I doubt mr spencer will have such a change of heart.

123 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:51:48pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

Where does the right make up 30 million?

A similar version of that argument can be made around a $3.7 trillion budget intended to effectively 'buy vote' of the entitlement class. Not all of those 15-30 million will just vote D. The right has to make up those votes and win support in that group by presenting a cogent and real argument based on the same core American values that prompted those 15-30 million to come to this country.

124 dmandman  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:52:29pm

Well the Democrats have been playing Russian Roulette with the fate of this country since 1932. We have been just so lucky that some sort of miracle has occurred to snatch us from oblivion every time they get into power. I don't know how long the luck is going to hold out, because the current administration and their willing accomplices have pulled out all of the stops to commit mass suicide. I would never ever have expected the major media organizations to voluntarily drive themselves to financial and personal ruin just to get the satisfaction of seeing this country being reduced to flaming radioactive ruin. What kind of drugs are the fund investment managers on that they let these crazies have free hand. When the three old tv networks started singing the same Socialist song that should have been a clue for anyone that something was just not right. Well Franklin did observe that a people always get the government they desrve.

125 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:52:34pm

OT:

One of my two-degrees-of-separation "friends" turns out to be an antivaccinationarianist, with five little unprotected rugrats running around loose.

She's an American, married to an Italian, living in Germany - and a comment I wrote about pernicious whackaloon Jenny McCarthy made her promise never to speak to me again.

Oh noes.

She thinks she's all brave and swimming against the tide and "informed", when in fact all these people do is piggyback on the general immunity of the population at large. Society can tolerate a certain percentage of people doing that because of the artificial immunity built up over generations. It becomes a problem when more than X% of the populace decides to opt out. It's like people who can perfectly well afford insurance deciding to spend their money on big-screen teevees instead, counting on a compassionate society to save their asses when things go bad.

And I'm willing to bet dollars to deutschmarks that if swine flu goes pandemic, and people start dropping like stun-bolted cattle, she and her husband will herd the kids straight to the nearest public health depot and shove their way to the front of the line to get whatever shots the gummint is handing out.

Freaks.

126 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:52:46pm

re: #119 jwb7605

I'm kinda liking that Hopi Indian prediction too.

We used to always tune in the History Channel but the last couple of years I've really lost interest in it. It's a shame.

127 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:52:46pm

re: #114 ArchangelMichael

Obama's first act in his second term is to abolish money as we join the United Federation of Reptilian Colonies?

/

The man disgusts me. People fought and bled for the flag which he sees as interferance from his grandiose plans of total reconfiguration and destruction. It takes a real coward not to appreciate the context in which he grew up in. It takes a real fool to jeapordise freedoms on the basis of structural control. And it takes a lunatic to create sham trials to denigrate other political factions.

How many days left?

128 LionOfDixon  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:53:32pm

Speaking of Nazis, did you hear they now have solid proof that Hitler was gay? They just found an unpublished manuscript that he was planning to release after the war. The book is called Mein Boyfriend.

(rimshot)

129 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:54:04pm

bbiaw

130 LGoPs  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:54:52pm

re: #127 Buster Bunny

The man disgusts me. People fought and bled for the flag which he sees as interferance from his grandiose plans of total reconfiguration and destruction. It takes a real coward not to appreciate the context in which he grew up in. It takes a real fool to jeapordise freedoms on the basis of structural control. And it takes a lunatic to create sham trials to denigrate other political factions.

How many days left?

Unfortunately what you have described is the intellectual foundation of the entire leftist movement.

131 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:55:21pm

re: #127 Buster Bunny

1364 days 19 hours 4 minutes 54 seconds

132 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:56:10pm

re: #120 yochanan

i will not get in bed with NAZI'S, COMMIES, ANARCHIST OR ISLMO FASCISTS

.

I think I've done all four as one night stands .. and from experience .. the communists were the best in the sack. So if you dont believe in their policies .. just sleep with them anyway. They are very energetic and .. grunt a lot.

133 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:56:53pm

re: #107 SpartanWoman

Self criticism is not healthy when it becomes an obsession and a blindness.


Of course. But we're not even close to that. We've barely scratched the surface of the things dividing our party, never mind an effective way to articulate just a basic platform of common sense ideology.

134 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:56:54pm

re: #131 ArchangelMichael

1364 days 19 hours 4 minutes 54 seconds

after the first 100 days, I don't like the odds...

135 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:58:00pm

re: #134 brookly red

after the first 100 days, I don't like the odds...

Obama shook hands with one of the first fatal cases of the new Swine Flu.

136 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:58:03pm

re: #131 ArchangelMichael

1364 days 19 hours 4 minutes 54 seconds

It still feels like he's 1295 days into his term already.......

137 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:58:45pm

re: #125 Cato the Elder

Mail her this video

138 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:58:58pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, no, I'm not familiar with Edward Alexander. I am, however, familiar with Gore Vidal and his works; I used to read him with some pleasure back in the days when handling a copy of the Nation did not give me hives.

Vidal shares the hostility towards Western religion that Hitchens, among others, also exhibits; in Vidal's case, that hostility is exacerbated by his genteely-cloaked, but nonetheless radical, advocacy on behalf of homosexual triumphalism.

Vidal's hostility to Jews is a legacy of the old-fashioned genteel antisemitism to which he is an heir, combined with a hatred of those who retain a loyalty to the religious structure which stands in the way of his dream of homosexual triumphalism, and the leftist aversion to nationalism generally.

Some of Edward Alexander's books:

The Jewish Idea and Its Enemies

The Jewish Wars: Reflections by One of the Belligerents

The Israeli Fate of Jewish Liberalism

Jewish Divide Over Israel: Accusers and Defenders ( this is the newest one)

Classical Liberalism and the Jewish Tradition

139 LionOfDixon  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:59:18pm

George W. Bush is the Emanuel Goldstein of the left. Focus scorn, hate and derision on a target that can't defend itself, all the while ignoring the problems of society, and you, like Ingsoc will be victorious.
All hail Big Brother Obama while we swill our Victory Gin.

140 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 2:59:57pm

re: #134 brookly red

after the first 100 days, I don't like the odds...

I wouldnt be banking on a full term agreement with the people at this stage. He's got very little time to shore up support from the people. After that he'll be fighting the people .. and you might be able to impress liberals .. but you piss off the grassroots non affiliated Americans and you have more shit hitting the fan than you could possibly comprehend.

And from the grapevine .. I'm hearing his loyalist civilian army seems to have backfired.

141 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:00:11pm

re: #135 jwb7605

Obama shook hands with one of the first fatal cases of the new Swine Flu.

it think that was debunked, but the thought of President Biden dosen't sit well either...

142 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:00:21pm

The Blackhawks jumped out to a 3-0 lead in the first period and never looked back, defeating the Calgary Flames 5-1 Saturday in Game 5 of their Stanley Cup playoff series at the United Center.

stanley's cup should be in chicago

143 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:01:26pm

After years of fighting his way into the mainstream with a broad vocabulary and a dandy cordial touch, beating declining to beat back the likes of George Wallace Baron Bullshitty with his free hand all the while, Buckley Spencer was being cast into the moral wilderness. By a queer jazz musician, no less.

144 Shug  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:01:42pm

re: #142 yochanan

The Blackhawks jumped out to a 3-0 lead in the first period and never looked back, defeating the Calgary Flames 5-1 Saturday in Game 5 of their Stanley Cup playoff series at the United Center.

stanley's cup should be in chicago

It will be when Chelios takes it home for a visit this Summer

145 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:02:26pm

re: #142 yochanan

The Blackhawks jumped out to a 3-0 lead in the first period and never looked back, defeating the Calgary Flames 5-1 Saturday in Game 5 of their Stanley Cup playoff series at the United Center.

stanley's cup should be in chicago

sure,,, but only after it's in Boston! Maybe one of the Bruins will take it to Chicago for a day or so this summer!

146 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:02:43pm

Speaking of sage advice, I just heard Bob Brinker tell his Moneytalk listeners that he couldn't imagine any reason that any person should travel to Mexico for a few weeks.

Not for business or for pleasure or for any other reason.

Bob's a pretty level headed guy, so I hope people listen to him.

147 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:05:03pm

re: #141 brookly red

it think that was debunked, but the thought of President Biden dosen't sit well either...

It was on the Drudge Report (briefly).
Google searches went to "page 3" and only a blog remains, so you're probably right.

Darn, I was hoping for an involuntary puke on national television.

148 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:05:29pm

re: #146 funky chicken

not to worry the mexicans will come here. remember who does most of the food service work.

149 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:06:33pm

re: #112 LGoPs

Good point. You have to choose your battles. When you make everything a battle, then the problem becomes the least common denominator, namely you.

I know that I will fight any totalitarian ideology until I take my last breath. Not just for myself but for the future of my kids and grandchildren, etc.

As far as the GOP is concerned, I think it's a losing strategy to keep playing defense to Donkiness and some of their sillier battles. We need to forge our own identity (it's been lost for some time) and articulate it clearly.

150 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:06:55pm

re: #142 yochanan

The Blackhawks jumped out to a 3-0 lead in the first period and never looked back, defeating the Calgary Flames 5-1 Saturday in Game 5 of their Stanley Cup playoff series at the United Center.

stanley's cup should be in chicago

I'm seeing an original 6 finals this year.....but not with Chicago representing the West. Boston v Red Wings, Boston in 6.

151 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:07:11pm

re: #147 jwb7605

It was on the Drudge Report (briefly).
Google searches went to "page 3" and only a blog remains, so you're probably right.

Darn, I was hoping for an involuntary puke on national television.

as opposed to the deliberate regurgitations?

152 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:07:27pm

re: #150 Athos

I'm seeing an original 6 finals this year.....but not with Chicago representing the West. Boston v Red Wings, Boston in 6.

works for me!

153 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:07:46pm

Just got yet another email from Spencer

In it, he makes the following points:

-Jatras has been off the JW board for 4 years.

Jatras is pro-Serbian. That does not equal, except in Kejda Gjermani's mind, pro-genocide or pro-fascism.


........
-

if you look back, he decided I was a Nazi because of a couple of weblinks under a disclaimer.


...........

I have never allowed this to go unanswered. In my post this morning I said that I have no ties to Eurofascists. I have innumerable times spoken out in defense of democracy and rule of law, non-establishment of
religion, etc. I have said this hundreds of times. The thing is that
Charles doesn't believe me -- he thinks I secretly support these
people. There is no answer to that.


........

This does not sound like a fascist to me. Spencer is either a complete weasel who shakes hands with snakes when we are not looking or a conservative anti-Islamic author. I have spent hours on this the last couple of days. I am taking a break on this.

We are drawing every conclusion against him and vice versa. Why do we believe pro Koln more than a guy who has written some of the most forceful anti-Islamist books of our time?

154 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:07:59pm

re: #150 Athos

we will see. we will see

go HAWKS

155 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:08:18pm

OT - I'm catching Fox News Sunday replay......and am surprised that Larry Summers is able to stay awake during the interview with Chris Wallace. I wonder what it is with his boss that just puts Summers to sleep......

156 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:08:24pm

re: #151 brookly red

as opposed to the deliberate regurgitations?

Yeah. I should have been more specific. I was not referring to the involuntary actions of the audience. :)

157 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:08:25pm

crow will be served

158 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:09:52pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

Has Spencer explained why he's not going to the Koln conference?

159 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:09:54pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

Sorry ,, but thats naive

If (when) Obama and the Dems legalize 30 million illegal aliens, they just picked up that many votes in national elections for DECADES. Where does the right make up 30 million?

* * * * *
Hardworking, entrepreneurial, family forming, religious people ESCAPE socialist/marxist countries to come to the USA to make money, keep money, help their families and live at peace, doing what they want.

Such people won't stay with the Democrats for long. Jeanne Kirkpatrick was a marxist socialist before she became Ronald Reagan's Ambassador to the UN, and a Republican conservative.

Reagan himself went from Democrat to Republican.

We need to encourage that EVOLUTION from starry eyed Marxist utopia B.S. believing to self-determined, self-disciplined, self-sustaining citizens who respect others and don't want to control them, as the GOP ideally does.

160 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:09:59pm

re: #143 Cato the Elder

After years of fighting his way into the mainstream with a broad vocabulary and a dandy cordial touch, beating declining to beat back the likes of George Wallace Baron Bullshitty with his free hand all the while, Buckley Spencer was being cast into the moral wilderness. By a queer jazz musician, no less.

I think you pretty much nailed it there. I've often thought it was spencer's position that since he's a scholar that his intellectual credentials were unimpeachable, and for a jazz musician and his hoard of up-start, amateur fact checkers to think we could "outsmart" him is/was laughable in his mind. In other words, he's an intellectual snob who thinks his word trumps facts.

161 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:10:40pm

re: #157 yochanan

crow will be served

Not for I, my home town team didn't even make the playoffs this year.....and the other teams that I have some connection with (Devils / Canes) are will be eliminated in this round and the next.

162 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:10:42pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

-Jatras has been off the JW board for 4 years.

That's a lie.

163 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:11:12pm

Clinton, in Lebanon, Lends Support Ahead of Election

"... the United States “will never make any deal with Syria that sells out Lebanon and the Lebanese people,” Mrs. Clinton pledged. “You’ve been through too much.”


Translation:

The Obama Administration already sold them out vis-a-vis Syria.

On Saturday, Mrs. Clinton traveled to Baghdad to reassure Iraqis that the United States would not abandon them, even as it withdraws combat troops.


Too late.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

164 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:11:50pm
165 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:12:13pm

re: #155 Athos

OT - I'm catching Fox News Sunday replay......and am surprised that Larry Summers is able to stay awake during the interview with Chris Wallace. I wonder what it is with his boss that just puts Summers to sleep......

* * * *
Summers is fat and doesn't look like a fit healthy individual, though he's brainy.
Maybe if he worked out with Pres. Obama, he'd stay awake.

166 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:12:48pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

From Jihad Watch: Feb 16, 2007
"At CBN News (thanks to Sparta) is video of Jihad Watch Board member James Jatras discussing the jihad in Kosovo."

167 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:12:59pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

Just because he's an anti-Islamic author doesnt mean cavorting with neo-nazi parties is ok or a fitting excuse to rationalise his idea. He's hanging around with the wrong crowd .. of his own choice. He may be the finest violinist in history .. but if he's playing Wagner to a bunch of Neo-Nazis .. I'll get the hint and isolate him.

He made a choice. We all do. And then we live by the consequences. When he stops making the wrong choices then we can start remembering what his name was.

168 Son of the Black Dog  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:13:03pm

re: #101 swamprat

Lose what? Four years is all we can "lose". Eight at most. Hell we might be wrong and the guy turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread.
It could happen.

But I doubt it.

We haven't seen anything approximating leadership yet, just more campaigning and the mouthing of platitudes.

Now, what can happen in four years? Do you remember the Carter administration? Double digit inflation and interest rates? We aren't over Jimmy Carter yet - Iran anybody? The naivety and ignorance of Jimmy Carter could still get a lot of people killed by the crazy mullahs who are developing nuclear weapons. Now we have a president who apparently knows nothing about history and has no geopolitical perspective. If we're lucky we will all survive the Obama administration with nothing more than a screwed up economy. If we're not lucky, then a whole lot of us might not survive the Obama administration at all. Think about it.

169 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:13:29pm

re: #166 jaunte

From Jihad Watch: Feb 16, 2007
"At CBN News (thanks to Sparta) is video of Jihad Watch Board member James Jatras discussing the jihad in Kosovo."

Yep. Ayatollah Ghilmeini: maybe you should wake up and realize you are being lied to.

170 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:14:46pm

re: #165 alegrias

* * * *
Summers is fat and doesn't look like a fit healthy individual, though he's brainy.
Maybe if he worked out with Pres. Obama, he'd stay awake.


I did not get that impression when he was on Fox today.
He avoided virtually every question posed, and seemed to have no clear ideas about the direction of the economy -- present or future.

171 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:15:24pm
172 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:16:14pm

re: #159 alegrias

In the late 50's / early 60's the Republicans worked their asses off to ensure African Americans were treated equal, despite the efforts of the Al Gore Sr's, Robert Byrds, and Dem House Chairman Howard W. Smith. After the bills passage (again, the majority of Repubs voted for it) the Dems took all the public credit for it ensuring decades of support from African Americans that continues to this day, 4 decades later

If (when) this Dem President/ Congress gives 30 million people amnesty those people will "owe" the dems for generations, a la 1964

173 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:18:00pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

At this point, I'm going to ask you nicely to stop posting Spencer's deceptive comments to you at my website. If you continue, I'll start deleting your comments.

174 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:18:02pm

re: #170 jwb7605

I did not get that impression when he was on Fox today.
He avoided virtually every question posed, and seemed to have no clear ideas about the direction of the economy -- present or future.

* * * *
I apologize, I should have said the reputedly brainy Larry Summers!

Chris Wallace did tell him to get some rest, so maybe the guy's been sick or overworked lately.

175 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:18:08pm
176 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:18:27pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

[...] Spencer is either a complete weasel who shakes hands with snakes when we are not looking or a conservative anti-Islamic author. [...]

He is both.

[...] Why do we believe pro Koln more than a guy who has written some of the most forceful anti-Islamist books of our time?

pro Köln has no real reason to lie. What would be gained by falsely claiming that Spencer and Geller were planning to attend? And anyway, they have attended similar gatherings in the past, when the interconnections were not (quite) as manifest as they are today. Maybe it's an ingenious leftist infiltration-and-misdirection psy-op, but a man named Occam gave me a razor and it would tend to shave away such hairy improbabilities.

Spencer has every reason to lie. His reputation is on the line because of associations he has forged and alliances he has failed to denounce.

It is on a par with Greek tragedy, ironically enough given his ethnic background. Hubris, bad choices and the avenging furies.

And being a well-spoken crypto-hater hasn't helped, either.

177 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:19:50pm
178 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:20:37pm

re: #175 Sharmuta

It's a strange lie for Spencer to tell, when his own site tells a different story.

179 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:20:54pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

this is easy to verify

180 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:21:16pm

I see we are still at it. Good. Got my resume' posted after doing a complete rewrite! Laundry about half done. So what kind of nonsense have Spencer and Geller come up with while I've been gone?

181 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:22:19pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

We are drawing every conclusion against him and vice versa. Why do we believe pro Koln more than a guy who has written some of the most forceful anti-Islamist books of our time?

Because of his own words and actions to not distance himself from any of the reprehensible groups of the fringe neo-nazi right and to associate with them for the sole reason that they also support his anti-jihadist positions.

He has had plenty of opportunity to bury his ego from this argument - yet he cannot. He is rightfully being hoisted on a petard of his own creation. He has written powerful anti-Islamist books, but his ego and position has also done considerable damage to the anti-Islamist efforts because our opposition to islamofascism is based not on racism or bigotry, but on our abhorrence to what it stands for in terms of lack of individual rights and freedoms. We abhor it's 7th century mindset - and do not feel we need to return to the 1933-1945 mindset of the Nazi's to fight it. We can fight it with the compelling message and vision of individual rights and freedoms.

Remember, we don't hate all muslims.....only those who promote the message of Qutb, Bin Laden, the Taliban, the Wahibbi, and its radical fundamentalism and interpretation. (Also note that many of us also have issue with radical fundamentalist interpretations of Christianity...)

182 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:22:42pm

re: #172 sattv4u2

In the late 50's / early 60's the Republicans worked their asses off to ensure African Americans were treated equal, despite the efforts of the Al Gore Sr's, Robert Byrds, and Dem House Chairman Howard W. Smith. After the bills passage (again, the majority of Repubs voted for it) the Dems took all the public credit for it ensuring decades of support from African Americans that continues to this day, 4 decades later

If (when) this Dem President/ Congress gives 30 million people amnesty those people will "owe" the dems for generations, a la 1964

* * * *
Why Republicans let stand the LIE that the Democrats were FOR liberty and individual freedom, is a mystery.

Democrat unions run the government schools, so history isn't taught fairly or honestly. And academics tend to be leftist, so even college-educated people don't get an honest history lesson on these hot topics.

You saw how effectively Pres. Obama morphed himself into Republican Pres. Abraham Lincoln, and the public ate it up.

183 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:22:50pm

re: #177 ayatollah ghilmeini

Let's make the denial categorical:


He wasn't going. He said he was never going and there was never an agreement of any kind.

What more does the man have to say to end this matter?


Nothing he could say would. As I told my son at a very young age
Once a liar always a liar
Why would they report he qwas coming? (meaning, what benefit does the conference have asying he IS acoming if they knew he wasn't?)
Now that he was caught red handed, he's denying anything. Notice he says "I signed no contract' Who signs a "contract" to be an atendee at a conference?

184 brookly red  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:23:15pm

re: #180 pingjockey

scroll up...

185 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:23:29pm
186 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:23:40pm

re: #173 Charles

I posted something before I saw this.

I have always respected the house rules and always will.

I am deeply disappointed in how this whole thing has gone.

187 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:23:57pm

re: #184 brookly red
That was more rhetorical than a real questions, oops.

188 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:24:31pm

re: #180 pingjockey

I see we are still at it. Good. Got my resume' posted after doing a complete rewrite! Laundry about half done. So what kind of nonsense have Spencer and Geller come up with while I've been gone?

Wonderful phrase in computers .. GIGO - Garbage In Garbage Out .. what you put in as garbage .. heck .. it comes out as garbage ..

from #153 onwards we just seem to be recycling. We know the plots and subplots .. it just seems that a genuine letter from Robert Spencer is meant to change all that.

It doesnt.

189 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:26:35pm

re: #188 Buster Bunny
Aha! What I don't get, still, is why the conference would trumpet Spencer and Geller going if they weren't? Somehow I don't think the rest of the attendees would be real pleased about being suckered like that.

190 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:27:36pm

re: #176 Cato the Elder

pro Köln has no real reason to lie. What would be gained by falsely claiming that Spencer and Geller were planning to attend?

Islamists and the far right have had a long association. Even post war, there were nazis working for the Arab governments and even young fascists fighting for the PLO in 1982.

His reputation is on the line

This is indisputable.

191 Mardukhai  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:27:58pm

Bill Buckley loved good natured debate and disputation.

I know -- I had a few with him over the phone. (He wrote an essay for me, and used words that only an ultra-montaine would understand.)

Buckley was also a relentless fighter against fascism and Holocaust-denial, and was sued by the Willis Carto gang. He was very helpful in my research against Bill Baker.

We can all agree that the Vidal business was not his finest moment, but he was viciously provoked by one of the century's meanest jackasses.

192 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:28:22pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

what state do they file in?

193 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

Sorry ,, but thats naive

If (when) Obama and the Dems legalize 30 million illegal aliens, they just picked up that many votes in national elections for DECADES. Where does the right make up 30 million?

Well, GW Bush wanted to go full force on amnesty; his first state visit was when he hosted Vicente Fox in September of 2001. 9/11 quashed that goal.

I think a Mexican swine flu pandemic may likewise make it really tough for Janet Napolitano to sell an amnesty this time around.

194 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:29:22pm

re: #6 paint-right

I wonder if Buckley wasmore upset that he lost his cool at all. or if he didn't like to hear himself speak so bluntly - but honestly. Hard to tell from what is quoted.

I'm reactionary enough to approve of Buckley's challenge to a pugilistic duel. (If Recneps Trebor is throwing the glove before Charles, I doubt Charles will have trouble finding lizards to provide lessons in whatever martial art pro bono.)

I don't approve of the term "queer", though; and I suspect that's what Buckley was kicking himself over. Buckley had all manner of other insults he could have used...

195 jaunte  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:29:40pm

re: #189 pingjockey

The rest of the attendees are just mad at Charles Johnson because he pointed out the nazi connections (which don't exist, of course) which prevented Spencer from going to the event (which he was never going to anyway)./

If you have children, the logic is easy to follow.

196 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:30:08pm
197 wiffersnapper  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:31:19pm

Bill Buckley was the man. Awesome guy.

198 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:31:48pm

re: #193 funky chicken

Well, GW Bush wanted to go full force on amnesty; his first state visit was when he hosted Vicente Fox in September of 2001. 9/11 quashed that goal.

I think a Mexican swine flu pandemic may likewise make it really tough for Janet Napolitano to sell an amnesty this time around.

* * * **
Reagan also did amnesty during his two terms.

Reagan & Bush perhaps know that harworking family-forming immigrants won't vote for the crappy marxist policies they ESCAPED from, once they figure out that's what Democrats are selling.

199 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:32:22pm

re: #164 buzzsawmonkey

Marx, in his antisemitic rant, On the Jewish Question, certainly equated Jews with the bourgeoisie:

What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.

Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Judaism, would be the self-emancipation of our time.

An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible. His religious consciousness would be dissipated like a thin haze in the real, vital air of society. On the other hand, if the Jew recognizes that this practical nature of his is futile and works to abolish it, he extricates himself from his previous development and works for human emancipation as such and turns against the supreme practical expression of human self-estrangement.

We recognize in Judaism, therefore, a general anti-social element of the present time, an element which through historical development – to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed – has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily begin to disintegrate.

In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism...

Agree with you on "middleclassness". It's essentially Marxist.

200 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:33:03pm

This is now just a dog chasing its tail. When it bites it .. it yelps .. and then continues chasing it .. until it bites it again .. yelps .. and continues chasing it.

If you want to vindicate Robert Spencer .. convince him that hanging out with the wrong crowd is bad for his long term reputation. Thats all you have to do.

Until then .. i'm off to chase butterflies on the next thread. This repeating stuff for the sake of it is just dull.

201 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:33:32pm

re: #177 ayatollah ghilmeini

Let's make the denial categorical:

I was never going. The PI site says I reneged on a written agreement? They apparently misunderstood something. There never was a written agreement. I signed no contract. (Oh, and by the way, no one ever offered me any money....

He wasn't going. He said he was never going and there was never an agreement of any kind.

What more does the man have to say to end this matter?

He sounds like John Edwards.

He was never going, he says now, but he was talking to PI and somehow gave them the wrong impression. A written agreement (or indication of intent, or a polite "I'll think about it") could be as simple as an email exchange. Doesn't have to be a contract. So, benefit of doubt: PI misunderstood something he said or wrote. Point Spencer.

After people have been hammering away on the pro Köln/Nazi/skinhead/xenophobe/fascist connections for months, Spencer was still in touch with these people enough to give them the wrong idea. Point Charles.

The entire hurricane is about certain people's refusal to look at, or willful blindness to, the people they're cozying up to because they claim to be "anti-jihad". As Spencer himself has said, if they're anti-jihad, then he supports them. Whatever else they may be doesn't concern him.

It's like being for the local drug lord because he beat the shit out of some corner thugs and now the little old ladies feel safer at night. He's still a drug lord, though.

202 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:33:32pm

re: #195 jaunte

The rest of the attendees are just mad at Charles Johnson because he pointed out the nazi connections (which don't exist, of course) which prevented Spencer from going to the event (which he was never going to anyway)./

If you have children, the logic is easy to follow.

The lies are getting paper thin at this point.

203 VioletTiger  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:34:29pm

re: #35 Anna D

I can't help thinking that all this bickering among various anti-Islamism factions helps the Islamists. Is it productive? Doesn't it diminish us? Doesn't it help the true enemy, the one that wants to kill us all if it can't convert us? Sometimes it is worthwhile to recall "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I'm just sayin'.....


No. It's a big mistake to think that, when the enemy of your enemy is a nazi, hater, or facist.

204 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:34:42pm

re: #153 ayatollah ghilmeini

We are drawing every conclusion against him and vice versa. Why do we believe pro Koln more than a guy who has written some of the most forceful anti-Islamist books of our time?

Has Spencer repudiated them? If pro-Koln said I was speaking at one of their events and I was definitely not due to massive ideological differences, I would totally freak out. And if Charles posted that they said I was going, I would make DAMN sure he knew that there was no friggin' way because of my stand AGAINST fascism.

One thing is for sure. I would never weasel out of things by emailing a non-denial denial like this:

I have never allowed this to go unanswered. In my post this morning I said that I have no ties to Eurofascists. I have innumerable times spoken out in defense of democracy and rule of law, non-establishment of
religion, etc. I have said this hundreds of times. The thing is that
Charles doesn't believe me -- he thinks I secretly support these
people. There is no answer to that.

Where in there does he repudiate the Eurofascist ideology?

205 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:35:45pm

re: #195 jaunte
D'oh. Use logic of dealing with 6 year olds, or younger. Heh.

206 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:36:19pm

re: #192 ayatollah ghilmeini

I'm not comfortable posting that information. Needless to say- the internet is a great resource.

207 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:38:06pm

re: #204 rightymouse

Has Spencer repudiated them? If pro-Koln said I was speaking at one of their events and I was definitely not due to massive ideological differences, I would totally freak out. And if Charles posted that they said I was going, I would make DAMN sure he knew that there was no friggin' way because of my stand AGAINST fascism.

Believe me -- if anyone announced that I was going to be speaking at their event, and I had NOT AGREED to speak, I would make it very public that they had lied about it.

I wouldn't turn around and DEFEND the very same people that lied about me in order to promote their event.

These rationalizations stink. Big time.

208 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:38:19pm

re: #148 yochanan

not to worry the mexicans will come here. remember who does most of the food service work.

Yup. My daughter is supposed to go on a bus trip to Los Angeles with her school next weekend. They would stay in a hotel (most likely recent immigrant maids) eat at lower end chain restaurants (most likely recent immigrant cooks) etc, etc.

I haven't 100% decided to keep her home, but if things go as I expect over the next week, she's definitely not going.

The schools out here, and the public schools in San Diego (probably also LA) had the same spring break week as those kids from the private school in NYC. It's simply not possible that rich kids from NYC caught Mexican swine flu but thousands of immigrant kids who spent their spring breaks in Mexico didn't catch it, and didn't bring it back to their communities in LA and San Diego.

209 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:38:43pm

re: #198 alegrias

Reagan's amnesty was done because there were a shared role and responsibility for so many illegals (at the time) being inside the country. He preferred that path as opposed to the tactics to round up the illegals and deport them - the majority came to this country for the same reasons and rationale around Reagan's love for this country. But this was also intended and designed to be the last amnesty. It set and defined rules - which were not enforced for various political reasons.

An amnesty today disrespects the 1M - 2M per year that immigrate to this country legally. There are laws, there are processes, and there are no longer for those of the 3rd world or near 3rd world (including the failed states of Central and South America) national immigration limits.

The Democrats seek to revise history and pander in the same low form as they revise history regarding the civil rights effort. It is past time that we allow them to define the debate - and take control of the debate based on core American values - freedom, opportunity, individual rights, and fairness in each of these.

210 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:39:37pm

Later folks.

211 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:40:22pm

re: #207 Charles

Believe me -- if anyone announced that I was going to be speaking at their event, and I had NOT AGREED to speak, I would make it very public that they had lied about it.

I wouldn't turn around and DEFEND the very same people that lied about me in order to promote their event.

These rationalizations stink. Big time.

Bingo. Exactly.

212 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:41:10pm

re: #190 ayatollah ghilmeini

Islamists and the far right have had a long association. Even post war, there were nazis working for the Arab governments and even young fascists fighting for the PLO in 1982.

Umm...OK. You mean that pro Köln and the Islamists are working together to smear Spencer? With, maybe, an assist from the left?

Chacun à sa theorie conspirationelle.

213 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:42:21pm

re: #206 Sharmuta

I'm not comfortable posting that information. Needless to say- the internet is a great resource.

can you please email me the information?

214 ladycatnip  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:43:28pm

I just find it hard to understand where and why Spencer went off the rails. I used to read his blogs regularly, have his books, went to hear him speak years ago and he was excellent. It doesn't make sense; there was no need for him to begin affiliating with extremists.

Where once we were all pretty much on the same page (at least I thought we were), there are now torn pages everywhere.

215 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:45:56pm

re: #212 Cato the Elder

Umm...OK. You mean that pro Köln and the Islamists are working together to smear Spencer? With, maybe, an assist from the left?

Chacun à sa theorie conspirationelle.

The history of totalitarianism shows they ALWAYS get along. Hitler and Stalin. Iran and North Korea. Even al Qaeda Iran.

Totalitarians usually lie.

As the old Elvis Costello song goes- two little Hitler will fight it out til one little Hitler does the other one's will.

216 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:46:24pm

re: #190 ayatollah ghilmeini

Islamists and the far right have had a long association. Even post war, there were nazis working for the Arab governments and even young fascists fighting for the PLO in 1982.

I think it started to become a problem when islam started to make its presence in europe felt too deeply. At the end of the day, we're talking about ethnic nationalists who don't want anything but an ethnically pure society. islam poses the bigger threat to their solution at this point in time, so they've changed their focus away from the Jews and onto the muslims.

And it's strange we keep seeing this historical point brought up as if political movements don't evolve. The ethnic nationalism remains, it's just a different target now and for politically expedient reasons.

217 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:46:47pm
Islamists and the far right have had a long association. Even post war, there were nazis working for the Arab governments and even young fascists fighting for the PLO in 1982.

Its a continuing mistake to place the Nazis in the far-right bucket. They have never been conservatives .. in fact they were always associated with radical leftist movements departing from the conservative approaches of the past to build a better future .. free of hinderances. All it takes is actually reading some of their literature .. the letters .. the statements .. to realise that the National Socialist movement was inherantly more leftist that people are constantly led to believe.

Answer to the above : Whats being done now has been done before .. you just werent aware it was.

218 MJ  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:46:54pm

re: #199 MJ

Marx, in his antisemitic rant, On the Jewish Question, certainly equated Jews with the bourgeoisie:

Agree with you on "middleclassness". It's essentially Marxist.

Alexander has written numerous essays on Marx and the Jewish Question over the years. I recall reading a number of them in Commentary in the 1980's.
I think you'd find him interesting.

219 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:47:55pm

re: #216 Sharmuta

precisely right

220 vitoc  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:48:10pm

re: #207 Charles

Yeah, it is obvious that they stink.

But let's point out one simple thing here: I consider the result of this debate - both Spencer and Geller not travelling to Cologne - a big fat VICTORY.

The dickheads in Cologne got a major embarrassement, and they are without a doubt majorly pisssed off as we speak. That in itself is good. They had hoped to look - for a change - a bit more reputable, at least on the international stage, but that didn't work out for them. Rouhs got some nice reminders that some people out there are very aware of his past, and that archive.org is dangerous for him. By the way, I'd be quite interested in the legal aspects of that Hitler Youth music CD he is offering for sale, German law is quite tough about such things - maybe I should find out by contacting a couple of LEO types who do not like fascists AT ALL?

Geller and Spencer got another reminder that some people are watching them, and unless they want to experience yet another such debacle they will be a bit more careful in the future. If not - their problem, then they will end where they probably belong anyway: at the fringes of far right politics that is of little interest to a bigger audience. For the moment they were forced to redraw, and that shows who was the stronger party in this fight. Not that one would know by reading these people and their comments on how many readers LGF lost. LOL.

221 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:49:14pm

re: #220 vitoc

Who says you cant change the world with words?

222 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:50:34pm

re: #215 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

The history of totalitarianism shows they ALWAYS get along. Hitler and Stalin. Iran and North Korea. Even al Qaeda Iran.

Totalitarians usually lie.

As the old Elvis Costello song goes- two little Hitler will fight it out til one little Hitler does the other one's will.

* * * *
Elvis Costello, profound person, bashed Bush in effigy on camera, stomping like a madman. Costello knew a little about totalitarians stomping on individuals all right.

223 Anna D  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:51:05pm

Regarding the phenomemon described by Cato (#125), the name of that phenomenon is "Herd Immunity." When most of the "herd" (us) is vaccinated, the small subset of unvaccinated "herd" members are still protected, because the chance of encountering an infected person is very small. When too many members of the herd refuse to be vaccinated, then the herd immunity effect drops off.

224 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:54:11pm
225 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 3:57:22pm

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

226 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:01:01pm

OT

Walter Reed Army Medical Center is 100 years old! Opened in 1909 with a working elevator!

Walter Reed was a doctor who found more US soldiers died from mosquitos than battlefield woulds, during the Spanish American war.

Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday interviews the Major General who runs the place. Great interview with her, showing wounded warriors in prosthetics working out & waiting to get back into active duty.

227 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:01:09pm

re: #215 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

The history of totalitarianism shows they ALWAYS get along. Hitler and Stalin. Iran and North Korea. Even al Qaeda Iran.

Totalitarians usually lie.

As the old Elvis Costello song goes- two little Hitler will fight it out til one little Hitler does the other one's will.

OK. Your vindicatory contortions on behalf of JihadWatch & Co. just got about four dimensions too complex for my poor little brain to handle.

Have fun with that.

228 swamprat  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:04:55pm

They are not nazis....so the reason for withdrawal is?
Ah! But they were never going to go!
Even though it was on Pro Kohl's website.
So we are bad for .....pointing out nazi associations of an event that was going to be unattended.

Just a scheduling mistake I'm sure.


/wow

229 rightymouse  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:05:01pm

Time for a nice hot shower and dinner.

Later.

230 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:05:51pm

re: #229 rightymouse

Time for a nice hot shower and dinner.

Later.

hope your dinner is waterproof!

231 yochanan  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:05:55pm

re: #226 alegrias

i have a sad connection to walter read, my sister passed away there.

232 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:20:35pm

re: #104 jaunte

They forgot to mention that Charles possesses arrogantly-magical will-sapping Lizard rays which can influence people to reject their invitations to speak at perfectly non-nazified anti-jihad conferences and begin posting silliness on websites instead.

A small change.

233 Cato the Elder  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:21:21pm

re: #171 taxfreekiller

tfk is about to become a -------- man once more, about had all the lies I need.

I thought you were going to say "coherent". My bad.

234 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:29:30pm

AG:
Here's a RIEAS report, they really don't have fat in this fire besides a possible alliance with the Serbian lobby and CANA to oppose Turkey. Please read the report carefully, especially as it nears the end.

[Link: rieas.gr...]

235 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:31:44pm

Here's another report, this one from a Lobbyist for Kosova, but one who is honest and upfront about it.

[Link: www.empoweredbuilder.net...]

236 Totally Berserk  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:35:14pm

re: #35 Anna D

I can't help thinking that all this bickering among various anti-Islamism factions helps the Islamists. Is it productive? Doesn't it diminish us? Doesn't it help the true enemy, the one that wants to kill us all if it can't convert us? Sometimes it is worthwhile to recall "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I'm just sayin'.....

I wondered the same thing many months ago when this arose with Baron Bodissey and Gates of Vienna. Sure, we helped Stalin (and Stalin helped us) defeat the original Nazis, but look how long we had the Cold War with the USSR afterward, and how extreme that became. It really wasn't good in the long run. We also need to learn from history, see?

And don't be worrying about the Islamofascists defeating us. Their philosophy is inherently flawed and will sow its own destruction. We just need to concentrate more on how to help that process along.

What's the saddest about this kerfuffle is that it casts doubt on Spencer's other works, which I have read and appreciated. But now I'm starting to wonder.

237 Right Brain  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:36:25pm

The one feature, other than defense, that makes an assault not prosecutable, ie not against the law, in all states, is what is called fighting words: words that are known to provoke a response so emotional that the law sides with the respondent and not the speaker, eg calling a black man a n*****, if he were to knock you down the law would not interfere so long as the response was not prolonged. Basically these cases are decided on a case by case basis.

Calling a scholar a NAZI would in my mind be fighting words; also I have heard Mr. Vidal speak, several times actually, he attempts to provoke all those around him with fighting words, its his routine, eg Norman Mailer. Its remarkable to me that someone never responded, appropriately, and used the "fighting words" defense.

[Link: definitions.uslegal.com...]

238 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:47:56pm

I never really understood the mythology surrounding Spencer. The notion that he is some sort of profound 'anti-Islamic scholar' is in a word, silly. After 9-11 I bought 2 books that told me all I need to know about radical Islam: Hatred's Kingdom by Dore Gold and Militant Islam reaches America by Daniel Pipes. Read those 2 books and you are good to go. Spencer always struck me as a poor mans Daniel Pipes.

239 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:55:02pm

re: #238 MrPaulRevere

That reminds me, didn't Geller call Daniel Pipes a 'stooge' or something to that effect?

240 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 4:59:43pm

re: #239 MrPaulRevere

That reminds me, didn't Geller call Daniel Pipes a 'stooge' or something to that effect?

yeah - Daniel Pipes basically differentiates moderate muslims from those who believe in the strict interpretation of the Koran (the radical fundamentalists) and Pamela basically paints all Muslims with the same brush that they are all al Qaeda and need to pay accordingly.

241 Tatterdemalian  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:09:43pm

I can think of far worse reasons to lose my cool than to be repeatedly and unfairly called a Nazi.

No, Buckley isn't perfect, but then, who is? If that's the biggest mistake Buckley has ever made, I think he should be cannonized.

242 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:13:32pm

re: #241 Tatterdemalian

I can think of far worse reasons to lose my cool than to be repeatedly and unfairly called a Nazi.

No, Buckley isn't perfect, but then, who is? If that's the biggest mistake Buckley has ever made, I think he should be cannonized.

Maybe you missed the part where Buckley himself considered this a major fail. I seriously doubt he wanted to be canonized for it.

243 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:26:47pm

re: #73 SpartanWoman

This is a horrendous mistake. A single standard must prevail.

It does. If you're a truly red Utopian*, then anything is not only acceptable, but celebrated. If you're a Civilizationist**, nothing is acceptable. Period.

..

*My term for all manner of Leftist evil and Liberal fantacism.
**My term for those who understand that we could lose this beautiful thing we've still got going.

244 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:33:22pm

re: #89 LionofDixon

I miss Bill. Buckley said that his biggest accomplishment was helping rid the conservative movement of the kooks. Funny how no leader on the left would ever dare make that statment. To the contrary, the left seems to groom and welcome radicals and nutjobs, and make no apology for them.

They *have* to. Theirs is a religion based on an inverted premise.

To deal out the whackos, and admit the Civilizationists are right, is ultimately to do something so abhorrent they'd rather destroy JCWCIA* first.

..
*Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, Israel, and America.

245 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:36:43pm

re: #233 Cato the Elder

I thought you were going to say "coherent". My bad.

CtE ... that is a real shitty thing to say ...

246 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:40:57pm

re: #99 Sharmuta

The moment one aligns with nazis, they have already conceded defeat.

...But that's exactly what's happened in Europe. The battle's over, the Utopians won, with only the accommodation/surrender to Islam left on the to-do list. Except there are still Europeans with some fight, and a love of their world, left in them.

And they've been betrayed.
By everyone who claimed to be their leaders.
The only ones they can trust are on the right, and the fascists.
(God, it hurt to write that)

So, what to do? I would argue that our strategy must include appealing to their better nature, not forgetting A) just whom they've placed the remains of their trust and B) why that happened.

247 Athos  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 5:46:11pm

re: #246 PSGInfinity

No, they don't have to resort to the fascists as their only hope or out of desperation. That's what the fascists want us to believe - that they have moderated their viewpoints and are now respectable allies to fight this fight.

If they want to wake up and move beyond the apathy or think beyond emigrating from Europe after being beaten down for decades by the socialists.....they can organize and fight without the fringe.

Even with all of this, the fringe is still the fringe....

248 medaura18586  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:00:43pm

re: #234 Thanos

AG:
Here's a RIEAS report, they really don't have fat in this fire besides a possible alliance with the Serbian lobby and CANA to oppose Turkey. Please read the report carefully, especially as it nears the end.

[Link: rieas.gr...]

Robert Spencer and his fellow JihadWatch board member James Jatras, work for an arm of the Serbian lobby.

I also can't help but chuckle a bit to myself whenever I read Robert's Serbian connections being labeled as "nationalist" here at LGF. As a European, I can say with confidence that nearly every political party of organization in each European country defines itself as "nationalistic." It's not a negative connotation in Europe, not necessarily xenophobic either -- "nationalism" merely seeks the affirmation of national culture or identity. Doesn't do much to capture the full rotten flavor of Srdja Trifkovic, James Jatras, or Bishop Radovan Artemije. These people were willing collaborators of genocide perpetrators -- cogs in a military-political-propaganda machine that sought to exterminate entire nationalities of people from the lands of the former Yugoslavia. Genocide facilitators -- not ethnic nationalists -- is the proper term.

And truth be told, the Serbian connections make me even sicker than those to the Neo-Nazi/Fascist scum from Western Europe. Not only because I was personally affected by the tragedy of the Balkan Wars, but because,.. they are so fresh! Communists were responsible for the deaths of millions of people in the USSR and Eastern Bloc -- an even higher fatality count than what the Nazis and Fascists combined can boast of in World War II.

Yet, I see douchebags wearing USSR pins and shirts all the time in Manhattan (and I saw my fair share in Canada too). To me that's just as offensive as being confronted with Nazi symbolism in Europe. But let's not forget: neither today's skinheads nor their commie-douche equivalents have actual war blood on their hands. They may sympathize and identify with the ideologies and personalities that were directly responsible for gruesome massacres, but it's a second-hand, derivative form of infamy they attain.

Srdja Trifkovic, on the other hand, directly worked for Biljana Pslavic and Radovan Karadzic -- both monsters of unfathomable proportions who were found guilty on several counts of genocide and other crimes against humanity! The rape camps, concentration camps, massacres, mass graves of Srebrenica and Kosova are 10-15 years fresh! By allying with the Serbian lobby, Robert Spencer and any other "anti-Jihad" bloggers/intellectuals are doing the equivalent of allying with surviving functionaries from the actual Nazi regime. Beats palling around with today's skinheads. And it makes me absolutely sick to see people still making excuses for Spencer and his ilk.

[Link: srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com...]

Check some of the photos on this blog if the full reality of the situation still escapes you.

249 medaura18586  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:03:22pm

re: #248 medaura18586

PIMF: As a European, I can say with confidence that nearly every political party or organization in each European country defines itself as "nationalistic."

250 MTF  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:21:11pm

Vidal is a cursed man, a very fine writer bearing the load of a diseased mind. He's someone that would provoke the finest among all humans. Reading his work is entertaining because it's so well written and horrifying for what he says. He's like Hunter Thompson without any pretense at morality. I don't know Buckley's work as well but Vidal is an exceptional twit, and even evil when he sets his mind to it. Spencer seems very different. Has he ever really accomplished anything in this life? If so, I confess I missed it. Certainly people like Geller and Spencer aren't really worthy of the attention of this blog but, at the same time, I compliment Charles for taking them on and pulling away the disguises bad people use to fool the rest of humanity. It's what he does!

251 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:27:49pm

re: #247 Athos

No, they don't have to resort to the fascists as their only hope or out of desperation. That's what the fascists want us to believe - that they have moderated their viewpoints and are now respectable allies to fight this fight.

If they want to wake up and move beyond the apathy or think beyond emigrating from Europe after being beaten down for decades by the socialists.....they can organize and fight without the fringe.

Even with all of this, the fringe is still the fringe....

I agree that ulranationalist / fascist groups should be on the fringe. And hopefully they will be there once again. But you glided past my central point (sorry that I didn't make it clearer).

They're willing to listen to the fascists because precious few are left with any credibility! Most 'conservatives' are in fact liberals (with all that implies), and most real conservatives were treated as outcasts. Outcast versus outcast, whom to choose?

Look, I'm hoping it's just a phase. I'm hoping they'll see the whackiness cum tyranny and move on. But they need to toy with the fascists, to reestablish what's important in their own minds if nothing else.

Again, I hope that's all it is.

252 knojag  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:31:17pm

You can see the entire Vidal-Buckley debate on Youtube. Buckleys response to Vidals crypto-nazi slur, with a sneer and a smile at the same time, is wonderful to witness. Even a gentleman of Buckleys stature can be pushed only so far. One hundred and twenty years earlier, they would have been shooting at each other from 30 paces.

253 MTF  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:34:17pm

One hundred and twenty years earlier, they would have been shooting at each other from 30 paces.

Were we better off then? Shame has been lost, and also any sense of personal honor. If one faced a threat of wounding or death for vicious untruths, would one shut the hell up more often? Methinks yes.

254 knojag  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:37:18pm

re: #253 MTF

One hundred and twenty years earlier, they would have been shooting at each other from 30 paces.

Were we better off then? Shame has been lost, and also any sense of personal honor. If one faced a threat of wounding or death for vicious untruths, would one shut the hell up more often? Methinks yes.

My thoughts exactly as I viewed the debate.

255 MTF  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:37:19pm

I hurry to say that I am not advocating violence so much as expressing frustration at our inability to get people to take personal responsibility for the verbal assaults so often launched against other people for slimy purposes.

256 alegrias  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:38:07pm

re: #231 yochanan

i have a sad connection to walter read, my sister passed away there.

* * **
Dear Yochanan, sorry to hear that.

257 knojag  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 6:44:41pm

re: #255 MTF

I hurry to say that I am not advocating violence so much as expressing frustration at our inability to get people to take personal responsibility for the verbal assaults so often launched against other people for slimy purposes.

Same here. I believe your thoughts apply particularly to the blogosphere, where folks far too often say things meant only to offend and not to further the debate. No threat of being confronted by someone willing to "punch you in the face" to the degree where one would "stay plastered".

258 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 7:02:25pm

re: #252 knojag

You can see the entire Vidal-Buckley debate on Youtube. Buckleys response to Vidals crypto-nazi slur, with a sneer and a smile at the same time, is wonderful to witness.

Yeah, great. "Wonderful to witness."

Let's ignore the fact that Buckley himself was deeply ashamed about his bigoted outburst.

259 Throbert McGee  Sun, Apr 26, 2009 7:24:40pm

I've been Googling about the Buckley/Vidal exchange, and learned something new:

After the broadcast, Buckley retreated to his trailer, only to be confronted by Paul Newman (who routinely stopped by for beer). Newman called Buckley’s attack despicable. When Buckley fired back that Vidal had called him a Nazi, Newman responded: "That was purely political. What you called him was personal."

Imagine being scolded by Paul Newman! (While knocking back a brewski.)

260 Fabio P.Barbieri  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:40:13am

I feel pretty sure that Newman thought better of it afterwards. Unlike many Hollywood idiots, he was capable of changing his mind; and Vidal has eventually managed to make himself a pariah even among Democrats.

The trouble with Spencer is that he genuinely thinks that my enemy's enemy is my friend, and that any stick is good enough to beat Islamism with. As a result, he is constantly surrounded by a vile crew. I dislike Objectivism, and all its worst features are clearly shown in Pamela; of the Serbs, the best you can say is that they have been so traumatized by centuries of Turkish oppression that they have internalized the oppressor and learned to be as murderous as them. I did not gain any popularity when I pointed out that the first victims of Serbian mass murder were not the Muslims of Sarajevo, but the Catholics of Osijek, Slavonia and Dalmatia. The site is also full of Hindutva fanatics - who denied to my face that any killing of Christians was going on in India. (I wonder whether they would have the nerve to do so now?) Then there is Hugh, with his singular obsession with deportation and the Benes Decree - which, as I pointed out, should have been called the Benes-Stalin Decree and preluded to Communist tyranny - and even on a non-moral Machiavellian ground, deportation will never work. Spencer himself was not best pleased when I argued that appearing on the Gordon Liddy show was not good publicity except with lunatics and kooks. I imagine that it is possible to have Muslim persecution so deep in one's personal and family memories that one comes to the conclusion that anything is legitimate in order to fight it; but that is the way to exchange the frying pan for the fire. Or, as GK Chesterton said: "Any time a man decides that any stick is good enough to beat his enemies with, straight away he picks up a boomerang". I will go on reading his site and perhaps commenting, but I am afraid that anyone with such taste in supporters deserves the pasting he has received from Charles. Besides, Charles has been right on a number of other things, and is generally a voice of sanity among conservatives.

261 Salamantis  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 3:28:32am

Charles is a voice of informed conscience for the antijihadi blogosphere; you might not like what you hear, but you listen - and if you're wise, you usually heed. Because he checks things out, and he's right about them a large majority of the time.

262 S'latch  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 6:04:18am

Thank you, Charles. I did not know that William F. Buckley himself thought he had failed by displaying extreme indignation in response to Gore Vidal's smear. I had previously stated that I thought it was appropriate under the circumstances. I am reconsidering my opinion.

263 Simply Me  Mon, Apr 27, 2009 1:43:45pm

I have come to this thread quite late. It has been an education.

What Buckley said:
“Now listen, you queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I'll sock you in you goddamn face and you'll stay plastered.”
The only way I can understand Robert Spencer's comment is that he is threatening to physically assault Charles Johnson, which is shocking. It seems that Spencer wishes to shut Charles up through intimidation, which I think of as fascist. So, it sort of proves the point that he does have fascist tendencies. Which, I guess, is what so delighted Gore Vidal about Buckley's outburst and why Buckley regretted it.

Spencer may have chosen this reference because he feels that he is being inferentially accused of being a "crypto-Nazi" when he is accused of associating with Nazis.
Spencer may have also seen this as a way to surreptitiously call Charles a "queer".


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