Fascist MEP Pelted with Eggs

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The Holocaust-denying leader of the British National Party, Nick Griffin, now a member of European Parliament, was forced to abandon a press conference today when demonstrators showed up throwing eggs.

Dozens of protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament. Chanting anti-Nazi slogans and holding placards they surrounded Mr Griffin as he was bundled into a car.

Mr Griffin was elected for the North West region - a result condemned by parties across the political spectrum. Mr Griffin and Andrew Brons, who was elected in the Yorkshire and Humber region, staged a press conference on College Green, opposite the Houses of Parliament.

The BNP leader began the event by holding up copies of national newspapers and talking about what he said were media lies about him and his party.

He denied he had past links with Oswald Mosley, as the former fascist leader “was very hostile to the National Front from which I am from”.

He had been speaking for about two minutes when about 50 to 100 protesters marched towards him chanting slogans and throwing eggs.

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387 comments
1 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:50:17am

Dam waste of eggs if you ask me.

2 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:50:23am

Now if only they had actually turned out to vote for the opposition to keep him from getting elected in the first place.

3 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:51:04am

re: #1 Nevergiveup

Dam waste of eggs if you ask me.

Thats the 2d fascist related egging in the last week.

4 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:51:36am

I may disagree vehemently with what that man believes, but at least I would have the deceny to argue vocally and as rationally as I possibly could, and not sink to the level of assault. For crying out loud, people, why drag yourselves down to the level of a common thug?

5 baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:03am

I hope Nick Griffin is greeted that each time he shows is face. What a scum bucket.

6 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:04am

Where were these protesters when the ballots were cast? If they did not vote, then they have themselves to blame. If not, throwing eggs is still a childish act that amounts to little more than assault. I don't like the BNP (in fact, I kind of hate them), but this style of protest accomplishes nothing. Fight their ideas in the political arena, not the street.

7 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:10am

Add some Spam and it's funny.

8 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:44am

re: #1 Nevergiveup

Dam waste of eggs if you ask me.

What happened to the good old shoe?

9 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:48am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now if only they had actually turned out to vote for the opposition to keep him from getting elected in the first place.

This is why the recent popularity of the "I'm going to stay home and not vote to teach these people a lesson" tactic in American politics is particularly nagging. When good people sit at home and refuse to vote, bad things happen.

10 n2stox  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:53:12am

I sometimes wish we in the US had the moxie (and legal ability) to throw eggs.

I'm a bit surprised, though, that some animal rights activists weren't there protesting the killing of unborn chickens.

11 baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:53:29am

re: #6 Honorary Yooper

Where were these protesters when the ballots were cast? If they did not vote, then they have themselves to blame. If not, throwing eggs is still a childish act that amounts to little more than assault. I don't like the BNP (in fact, I kind of hate them), but this style of protest accomplishes nothing. Fight their ideas in the political arena, not the street.

Violence is the only language some people understand.

12 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:54:12am

Can't condone the violence regardless of how despicable his positions are. This guy was elected to office, and the answer is to vote the guy out.

13 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:54:15am

The leader of the British National Party, Nick Griffin is a cowardley xenophobic racists, IMHO

That stated, committing assault and battery on him (or anyone) is NOT the way to "protest"

14 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:54:58am

re: #11 baier

Violence is the only language some people understand.

That's why sometimes you just have to speak the other person's language louder than they do.

15 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:05am

re: #9 thedopefishlives

This is why the recent popularity of the "I'm going to stay home and not vote to teach these people a lesson" tactic in American politics is particularly nagging. When good people sit at home and refuse to vote, bad things happen.

"The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."

16 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:12am

Re-post from the DT below:

So do we now cheer for the hooligans who did this, because its against a Neonazi?

Isn't this actually the dreaded 'mob rule' the LLL have been warnig everybody against?

Is this how we now deal with elected representatives?

What about using debate to show exactly what thugs the BNP people are?
What about tearing their arguments to pieces, in the politest way possible?

And above all - what does this say to all those who misguidedly voted for them? It tells them that the LLL elites still don't get it, it tells them that their voices still don't count.

Great way of winning back those voters!

17 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:18am

re: #10 n2stox

I sometimes wish we in the US had the moxie (and legal ability) to throw eggs.

I'm a bit surprised, though, that some animal rights activists weren't there protesting the killing of unborn chickens.

They were busy planning to bust some chimps out of a research lab.

/DOOM

18 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:48am

Evening folks, quick question about the EU polls...

What do you guys think of Germany's Free Democrats? They're described as "liberals" on BBC World but not in the SDP sense...

19 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:59am

re: #14 Ford_Prefect

That's why sometimes you just have to speak the other person's language louder than they do.

Don't get me wrong. I am not supporting the egg throwers. I was speaking more broadly.

20 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:56:17am

Whatever happened to "Sod off, Swampy!"?

21 Dianna  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:56:29am

I don't approve of this. I believe in free speech.

Worse, I must echo those asking where these people were when the ballots were being cast?

Another question: Between 50 and 100 protesters? They couldn't get a better count than that? I don't like reporting like that.

22 MJ  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:56:33am

I cannot agree with the tactic of throwing eggs or pies or shouting down anyone you disagree with. If his speech crossed the line into incitement, then the law should deal with it. But shouting down speech because it's repugnant isn't the answer.

23 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:56:48am

re: #6 Honorary Yooper

Where were these protesters when the ballots were cast? If they did not vote, then they have themselves to blame. If not, throwing eggs is still a childish act that amounts to little more than assault. I don't like the BNP (in fact, I kind of hate them), but this style of protest accomplishes nothing. Fight their ideas in the political arena, not the street.

It is assault, and all it does is give the BNP credibility, or at least sympathy.

24 baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:56:58am

re: #12 lawhawk

Can't condone the violence regardless of how despicable his positions are. This guy was elected to office, and the answer is to vote the guy out.

I disagree. A guy like this needs to fear showing his face in public, and so do his supporters. This is beyond a political disagreement. This is xenophobia and bare-faced hate. The guy is a Nazi, if he gets eggs pelted at him, as far as I'm concerned he got off light.

25 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:58:09am

re: #18 laZardo

Evening folks, quick question about the EU polls...

What do you guys think of Germany's Free Democrats? They're described as "liberals" on BBC World but not in the SDP sense...

The SPD, iirc, are the social democrats, a bit like Labour.
The liberals, the Free Democrats, are a bit like the Liberal Democrats here in the UK: always coming third, never in office ...

26 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:58:54am

Just as a follow-up to my previous statement, really, the foundation of the political system in America specifically is that the people who vote are, in general, educated on the issues and candidates and know whom to vote for in order to steer the country in a good direction. But if the people who actually FIT this qualification throw a temper tantrum and sit out on election day, who's casting the votes? The idiotarians who like the shiny buttons?

/And people wonder why our government grows exponentially every year...

27 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:59:33am

re: #8 John Neverbend

What happened to the good old shoe?

It went the way of the tomato in methods of criticism

28 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:59:41am

re: #24 baier

I disagree. A guy like this needs to fear showing his face in public, and so do his supporters. This is beyond a political disagreement. This is xenophobia and bare-faced hate. The guy is a Nazi, if he gets eggs pelted at him, as far as I'm concerned he got off light.

That just plays right into their hands and makes them the victim. Violence against any elected person even the BNP is not the answer and is a crime, sorry.

29 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:00:00am

re: #21 Dianna

I don't approve of this. I believe in free speech.

Worse, I must echo those asking where these people were when the ballots were being cast?

Another question: Between 50 and 100 protesters? They couldn't get a better count than that? I don't like reporting like that.

Morning Dianna! LOL! You're right on there. "Somewhere between 50 and 100?"


Xerxes: "So how many Spartans are there?"
Persian spy: "Somewhere between 1 and 300 I'd say."
Xerxes: "Somebody take this guy out and hang him."

30 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:00:19am

In a similar vein conservative speakers at colleges here in the States have had their speeches disrupted by similar attacks. In either case, the action is wrong and undermines the very concept of public discourse.

31 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:00:47am

re: #21 Dianna

Another question: Between 50 and 100 protesters? They couldn't get a better count than that? Looks like it would be hard to do a more accurate head count

How many people standing around were supporters? How many were reporters? How many just happened to be there at that time? And how many were acually there to protest?
PLUS, they started moving down the street. How many people were there (down the street, not participating) that were then caught up in the "numbers"?

32 Baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:00:50am

re: #28 JohnnyReb

That just plays right into their hands and makes them the victim. Violence against any elected person even the BNP is not the answer and is a crime, sorry.

If you know what the Nazis did, and you say, "yeah, I want to be one of them." As far as I'm concerned, you give up your rights as a human.

33 arf  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:01:17am

Throwing eggs at a politician like this, at a press conference, just elevates him, dignifies him. He comes off looking like the good guy.

Am I alone in that opinion?

34 tracon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:01:36am

Please tell me we have some video of this some where on the internets.

35 MJ  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:01:52am

re: #24 baier

I disagree. A guy like this needs to fear showing his face in public, and so do his supporters.

Suppose we substitute Ayaan Hirsi Ali name here instead.
What's your criteria for establishing a State based on fear? That you agree with the speech?

36 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:01:55am

re: #33 arf

Throwing eggs at a politician like this, at a press conference, just elevates him, dignifies him. He comes off looking like the good guy.

Am I alone in that opinion?

No.

37 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:02:06am

re: #25 yma o hyd

I figure the LibDems would be more of a "green" party but Wiki describes the FDP as "classically liberal."

/unfortunately cannot tell the difference, changing standards of political decency and all

38 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:02:13am

re: #34 tracon

Please tell me we have some video of this some where on the internets.

BBC had some

39 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:02:14am

re: #22 MJ

I cannot agree with the tactic of throwing eggs or pies or shouting down anyone you disagree with. If his speech crossed the line into incitement, then the law should deal with it. But shouting down speech because it's repugnant isn't the answer.

I understand they didn't throw eggs because the speech was repugnant, but because Griffin and the BNP are repugnant.

In any case - the time for heckling and egg-throwing (if one must!) was before the elections, during all those rallys the party held.
If there was heckling (not reported) it obviously didn't prevent people from voting.

Just shouting 'don't vote for them, if you do, you're scum' is not an argument.
One can also ask why the MFM only used this meme, and never exposed the BNP as it ought to have been exposed.

40 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:02:50am

re: #34 tracon

Please tell me we have some video of this some where on the internets.

Look above. Click the blue words "THROWING EGGS.

41 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:03:06am

re: #32 Baier

If you know what the Nazis did, and you say, "yeah, I want to be one of them." As far as I'm concerned, you give up your rights as a human.

I'm not defending nazi's in any way whatsoever but do you see the irony in your statement - essentially saying that those you disagree with are sub-human. I think the word was untermensch, IIRC.

42 Dianna  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:03:31am

re: #31 sattv4u2

I think the numbers were a bit too round. It's bad reporting.

43 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:03:42am

Were they white eggs or brown eggs?
Would he have minded as much if they were white eggs?
/////

44 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:03:45am

re: #4 MrSilverDragon

I may disagree vehemently with what that man believes, but at least I would have the deceny to argue vocally and as rationally as I possibly could, and not sink to the level of assault. For crying out loud, people, why drag yourselves down to the level of a common thug?

I totally agree. Throwing eggs is juvenile and counter-productive. It only elicits more sympathy for the person you oppose. Who ever got the idea that physically assaulting and menacing your opposent was a way to discredit them or to win an argument?

45 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:04:01am

re: #30 LGoPs

In a similar vein conservative speakers at colleges here in the States have had their speeches disrupted by similar attacks. In either case, the action is wrong and undermines the very concept of public discourse.

I remember watching Sir Keith Joseph (at one time, a member of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet) attempting to give a talk to a group of students. He was constantly heckled, although nobody threw anything at him. One of the more enterprising hecklers, in response to a statement by Joseph shouted "balls!" Joseph turned to his host, an academic at the university and politely asked what the heckler had said. The academic replied crisply, "he said 'balls'."

46 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:04:01am

re: #33 arf

Throwing eggs at a politician like this, at a press conference, just elevates him, dignifies him. He comes off looking like the good guy.

Am I alone in that opinion?

You are not alone.

47 jcm  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:04:15am

I hope they were brown eggs.

48 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:04:47am

re: #43 Kosh's Shadow

Were they white eggs or brown eggs?
Would he have minded as much if they were white eggs?
/////

Well, we know that they came from the avian nation.

49 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:04:58am

re: #24 baier

I disagree. A guy like this needs to fear showing his face in public, and so do his supporters. This is beyond a political disagreement. This is xenophobia and bare-faced hate. The guy is a Nazi, if he gets eggs pelted at him, as far as I'm concerned he got off light.

Nice sentiment - but why didn't these egg throwers show up before the elction? When their actions might have turned some voters away?

Why attack someoen after the fact?

And doesn't this set a precedent for everybody - throwing eggs at elected politicians one despises is now ok?

Can I now throw eggs at Gordon Brown?

50 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:01am

re: #23 Alberta Oil Peon

It is assault, and all it does is give the BNP credibility, or at least sympathy.

And sympathy is something that should not be given the BNP. They do not deserve it. You don't pelt them with eggs, you give them enough metaphorical rope with which to hang themselves.

51 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:05am

re: #42 Dianna

I think the numbers were a bit too round. It's bad reporting.

Looking at the video, I don't think there is any way hey could more accurately tell the number of actual "protesters", for the reasons I detailed above. Sorry

52 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:06am

Things are really getting stirred up - in this OT, Obama is telling American businesses to "drop dead".

I’ve finally figured out the Obama economic strategy. President Barack Obama and his team have been having so much fun wielding dictatorial power while rescuing “failed” firms, that they have developed a scheme to gain the same power over every business. The plan is to enact policies that are so anticompetitive that every firm needs a bailout.

Once that happens, their new pay czar Kenneth Feinberg can set the wage for everybody and Rahm Emanuel can stack the boards of all of our companies with his political cronies. [snip] I have to admit I am at a loss. Maybe it is good politics to bash American corporations, and Obama isn’t really serious about making this change happen. But if the change is enacted, and domestic corporate taxes aren’t reduced to offset the big tax hike, the result will be a flight from the U.S. that rivals in scale the greatest avian arctic migrations.

If that occurs, the firms that stay in the U.S. will be at such a huge tax disadvantage that they will absolutely need a “rescue.”

We're in for a global roller coaster ride.

53 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:06am
54 little boomer  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:19am

The people who looked like fascists were the egg throwers.

55 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:31am

I think a more effective protest tactic would just be showing up at every event with a sign reading "This is what happens when you vote for Fascists" with pictures of the death camps and their victims. Dont have to say anything.

56 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:05:57am

re: #54 little boomer

The people who looked like fascists were the egg throwers.

uummmmm,,,,, HUH !?!?

57 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:06:00am

Good Morning Lizards! It's overcast and warm in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

Eggs? They weren't Lizard eggs, were they?

Did you ever realize how fortunate the human race is that G-d decided not to give cats opposable thumbs?

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

58 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:06:14am

re: #44 zombie

Who ever got the idea that physically assaulting and menacing your opposent was a way to discredit them or to win an argument?

International ANSWER?

59 tracon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:06:18am

re: #34 tracon

Sorry should have checked the link. That was some good fun. And no arf it makes him look a little like the victim but its not enough for anyone to care. But anyone who actual checked into them realizes they need a a little pushing around from time to time.

60 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:06:26am

re: #44 zombie

I totally agree. Throwing eggs is juvenile and counter-productive. It only elicits more sympathy for the person you oppose. Who ever got the idea that physically assaulting and menacing your opposent was a way to discredit them or to win an argument?

Maybe he arranged for it himself. Reichstag eggs!

61 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:06:53am

re: #32 Baier

If you know what the Nazis did, and you say, "yeah, I want to be one of them." As far as I'm concerned, you give up your rights as a human.

Dipshit, we know what the Nazis did, but no one challenged the Nazis in the political arena when they assumed power. That was the problem. People had every opportunity to vote for someone better but failed to do so. Such is the case here.

62 Baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:07:06am
I'm not defending nazi's in any way whatsoever but do you see the irony in your statement - essentially saying that those you disagree with are sub-human. I think the word was untermensch, IIRC.

Nazis are not just "those that disagree" with me. And not everyone that disagrees with me bad or even wrong. But someone, in this day and age, that chooses to be a Nazi has no rights, in my book. I feel no obligation, elected official or not, to give them the rights they want to take from others.

63 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:07:09am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now if only they had actually turned out to vote for the opposition to keep him from getting elected in the first place.

The people protesting him were London lefties. The people who voted for him were suburbanites in the north of England. These were not his constituents pelting him.

Again, it's just like the No on 8 voters in California. They're protesting the legal results of an election after it's over. Totally pointless, and totally counter-productive. Throwing eggs at him won't un-do the vote, nor will it make him quit. They probably just earned more votes for the BNP in the next election.

64 Danny  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:07:16am

Throwing eggs ≠ legitimate demonstration.

65 BLBfootballs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:07:49am

Pity. :-)

re: #46 zombie

You are not alone.

Sigh..... you're probably right.

I don't think 99% of political leaders, even the nasty fascistic ones, should be targeted by eggs. But one is not always upset to hear the news.

His election is only really significant in that it tells of the sociopolitical illness of modern Britain. In a context where governmental power blossoms and non-leftist thought is socially outlawed, the only remaining options are nasty neo-fascist parties. All the moderate rightists have been browbeaten into exile. The non-leftist voter is left with no other choice on the ballot.

66 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:19am

re: #58 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

International ANSWER?

Exactly! And do you want to be on the same side as people who act like International ANSWER?

67 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:19am

It wouldn't surprise me if every egg thrown at Griffin were to translate into another vote for the BNP in the next British general election, which you know will be coming soon, the way Brown's Labour government is disintegrating.

And it also wouldn't surprise me to learn that a great many of the foks who voted for the BNP did it only as an act of protest, and not because they agree with all the BNP's policies.

68 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:24am

re: #52 ladycatnip

FYI: Kenneth Feinberg was the Special Master of the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund. I can't speak to the rest of that article, but thought it interesting that Feinberg's name came up in conjunction with that.

69 Golem Akbar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:26am

Outwardly I'm tsk-tsk-ing the egg-throwers, inwardly I'm chuckling.

70 n2stox  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:32am

In reading the rest of the story, it sounds like it was a bit more than just eggs.

There was a brief scuffle as Mr Griffin was jostled by protesters - and a scrum of cameramen - before the BNP leader was bundled into the back seat of a waiting car by his security men.

A tourist who was caught up in the melee was taken to hospital, after suffering an injured leg.

And, this "counter-demonstration" was organized by a group called Unite Against Fascism. According the article, they are "a new group supported by trade unions and MPs from all parties including Tory leader David Cameron and veteran left wing campaigner Tony Benn..."

A quote from the group's organizer:

"The majority of people did not vote for the BNP, they did not vote at all. The BNP was able to dupe them into saying that they had an answer to people's problems. "

Yet the BNP won some seats. Newsflash: elections have consequences.

Here's the problem: this is going to bolster Griffin's status as a victim. His group is coming off a landmark win for them in an election where far right parties did very, very well. To step up and disrupt them like this will likely get this group off the back page of the news and onto the front page. If the protester's goal was to make sure his views aren't heard, they accomplished the exact opposite.

71 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:43am

re: #56 sattv4u2

uummmmm,,,,, HUH !?!?

Good morning, satt.

Read it carefully -- "The people who looked like fascists ..."

It's a matter of appearances, judging by behavior.

72 little boomer  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:08:57am

re: #56 sattv4u2

uummmmm,,,,, HUH !?!?

Yeah, an ugly mob showing up throwing eggs and yelling at a guy calmly speaking into a mike look like the bad guys. -no I don't support BNP.

73 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:09:13am

re: #60 wrenchwench

Maybe he arranged for it himself. Reichstag eggs!

He's not clever enough for that.

Now if that had been Gord, on the other hand ... that would have been eminently possible!

74 MJ  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:10:09am

Do those who agree with the egg throwing think that it was an appropriate political response to throw shoes at President Bush?

75 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:10:31am

re: #72 little boomer

Yeah, an ugly mob showing up throwing eggs and yelling at a guy calmly speaking into a mike look like the bad guys. -no I don't support BNP.

better stated, thanks

76 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:10:44am

re: #70 n2stox


A quote from the group's organizer:

"The majority of people did not vote for the BNP, they did not vote at all. The BNP was able to dupe them into saying that they had an answer to people's problems. "

I think this says it all right here. We saw it here in the US with the Obama election, and now this. When people don't vote, especially informed and educated people, things inevitably go awry.

77 Golem Akbar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:10:45am

re: #66 zombie

Exactly! And do you want to be on the same side as people who act like International ANSWER?

Actually, in this case, yes. I would prefer the left to understand that fascism, including Islamo-fascism, is the real enemy. Unfortunately, that would never happen, so, I guess the answer (to ANSWER) is no.

78 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:11:03am

re: #71 pre-Boomer Marine brat

heya Pre ,, thanks

79 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:11:19am

re: #65 BLBfootballs

His election is only really significant in that it tells of the sociopolitical illness of modern Britain. In a context where governmental power blossoms and non-leftist thought is socially outlawed, the only remaining options are nasty neo-fascist parties. All the moderate rightists have been browbeaten into exile. The non-leftist voter is left with no other choice on the ballot.

Precisely. Best comment of the thread so far!

80 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:11:41am

re: #78 sattv4u2

heya Pre ,, thanks

How's your friend?
Heard from him?

81 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:11:44am

re: #21 Dianna

I don't approve of this. I believe in free speech.

Worse, I must echo those asking where these people were when the ballots were being cast?

Another question: Between 50 and 100 protesters? They couldn't get a better count than that? I don't like reporting like that.


Going out on a limb here, but I would venture to guess these were the 50 to 100 who voted but not for BNP. The thousands who didn't show up to vote most likely don't give a crap and wouldn't waste their eggs.

82 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:11:52am

re: #61 Honorary Yooper

Dipshit, we know what the Nazis did, but no one challenged the Nazis in the political arena when they assumed power. That was the problem. People had every opportunity to vote for someone better but failed to do so. Such is the case here.

The people who voted for the BNP are former Labour voters, who have felt totally abandoned by the party they used to vote for - for years!
They would never ever vote Tory - and someone (sorry, forgot where) wrote that the BNP manifesto has a lot of true, left-wing Labour policies in it.

83 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:12:06am

Be careful what you wish for.


It had been an article of faith among dovish critics of the Bush administration's unapologetic posture toward Iran that American policy was operating to unite nationalistic Iranians who might otherwise be divided. The belief was that a softer American policy would divide Iranians and strengthen moderates who would push for a less adventurous foreign policy, particularly in Iraq, the Gulf, and the Levant, which in turn would diffuse the "security dilemma" that supposedly motivates Iranian aggression.

...the doves are getting their wish insofar as the Iranian consensus is breaking down. The clerics might, finally, be losing power along with their frayed credibility.

The question is that we do not know who will emerge to take up whatever power the clerics lose. The doves assume that the moderates who win the election will gain in strength, but that is not the only possible result. What if the Revolutionary Guards, the corrupt and brutal organization with the most to lose if Iran becomes less confrontational in its foreign policy, are the ultimate beneficiaries of the fracturing in the Islamic Republic? That would be destabilizing for everybody in the region and put an end to any hope (if there ever was any) for a non-military solution to Iran's nuclear weapons program. Then, the problem with the dovish/apologetic position embraced by the Obama administration will not be that it has failed to divide Iran, but that it has succeeded.

84 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:13:19am

Here's the caveat on my comments: I'm not suggesting that people should get out and vote for something they absolutely despise in order to prevent the election of someone they despise even more. What that means is that someone needs to step up to the plate and DO SOMETHING about all the disaffected voters that want something better to vote for. Otherwise, voter turnout is just going to keep going down as more and more people start to realize that nobody actually stands for them.

85 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:13:38am

re: #21 Dianna

Worse, I must echo those asking where these people were when the ballots were being cast?

They were in London, voting for Socialists like Red Ken.

The BNP won its seat far far away from London, in the north. The press conference was not in the district where they won their seats.

86 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:13:41am

re: #80 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How's your friend?
Heard from him?

No, not yet, The service is tonght so I'm going to lay low for a day or so. I'm in Atlanta and he and the service is north of Boston. I spoke with another mutula friend that lives up there last night as I was driving home and he'll be going to the service and will give me a call when he gets there

Thanks for asking

87 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:14:02am

I still don't get it, eggs or shoes. What is the purpose of throwing something at someone with whom you disagree?

EGGS? WTF?

Sometimes I think I don't belong in this world. I was stolen from the hospital and taken to the wrong quantum universe.

88 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:15:11am

Give them enough time, and every politician gets egg on their face/

89 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:16:14am

re: #88 Creeping Eruption

Give them enough time, and every politician gets egg on their face/

And, just then, the chickens come home to roost.

90 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:16:16am

re: #83 Kenneth

Be careful what you wish for.

Heh, ... ya' think the Pasdaran just might be better organized than the moderates?

/ya' think "the Crocodile" up in Qom just might be wiggling his tail about now?

91 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:16:19am

re: #63 zombie

The people protesting him were London lefties. The people who voted for him were suburbanites in the north of England. These were not his constituents pelting him.

Again, it's just like the No on 8 voters in California. They're protesting the legal results of an election after it's over. Totally pointless, and totally counter-productive. Throwing eggs at him won't un-do the vote, nor will it make him quit. They probably just earned more votes for the BNP in the next election.

Ahem - slight correction: their voters were not suburbanites - they were from former mining and industrial towns in Yorkshire and Humberland - places where NuLab on all levels of government ahve shown preference to the immgrant muslim population.

Not that I want to make excuses for them - but thats how it stands.

Blame attached solely to NuLab, who didn't campaing properly because they thought theit 'clientele' would vote for them anyway, no matter what.
Utter compacency - and then telling voters not to vote for that party instead of arguing why NuLab is better - mega fail.

92 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:16:51am

re: #71 pre-Boomer Marine brat

"The people who looked like fascists ..."

What does a fascist look like? I have an image in my mind, something like this. Mind you, this guy is not the real McCoy.

Ron Vibbentrop

93 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:20:02am

re: #87 ggt

I still don't get it, eggs or shoes. What is the purpose of throwing something at someone with whom you disagree?

EGGS? WTF?

The reasoning prrobably goes like this:

We want to assault him, but we don't want it to count as assault. So we do something that has a veneer of charming wackiness to it, like throwing an egg, as opposed to a rock or a bullet.

The same principle is used by the European "Anti-Fa" protesters who dress up as clowns while they run around smashing up nuclear power plants or assaulting police or smashing bank windows. "Oh look, it's just a harmless clown!" Of course, in reality, they're just as dangerous in a clown outfit as they would be in a stormtrooper uniform. They think that the clown get-up makes them immune from criticism, but it doesn't work that way at all. Now the police especially surround people dressed like clowns at protests, knowing they are the most dangerous.

Same thing with eggs, or pies. It starts with something "harmless" like that, but can easily escalate.

It is totally wrongheaded to assault your political opponents, unless you want to descend to third-world status.

94 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:20:05am

re: #89 wrenchwench

re: #88 Creeping Eruption

Give them enough time, and every politician gets egg on their face/

And, just then, the chickens come home to roost.

Omelettin' you two get away with this foolishness, but only for now.

95 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:20:10am

re: #87 ggt

I still don't get it, eggs or shoes. What is the purpose of throwing something at someone with whom you disagree?

EGGS? WTF?

Sometimes I think I don't belong in this world. I was stolen from the hospital and taken to the wrong quantum universe.

It's easier then actually formulating an intelligent idea. If you can't think of any way to express your disagreement with someone verbally, apart from saying 'F' you, then what is left but to throw whatever is at hand? Eggs, shoes, rocks, whatever. Simple logic, really.

/partially.

96 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:20:14am

re: #92 John Neverbend

What does a fascist look like? I have an image in my mind, something like this. Mind you, this guy is not the real McCoy.

Ron Vibbentrop

Notice the rest of that comment ... appearances based upon behavior.
Little boomer used "look like" as a metaphor.

97 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:21:24am

re: #94 Occasional Reader

Omelettin' you two get away with this foolishness, but only for now.

Look on the Sunny-Side. How long could we keep this Up?

98 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:21:26am

re: #65 BLBfootballs

... His election is only really significant in that it tells of the sociopolitical illness of modern Britain. In a context where governmental power blossoms and non-leftist thought is socially outlawed, the only remaining options are nasty neo-fascist parties. All the moderate rightists have been browbeaten into exile. The non-leftist voter is left with no other choice on the ballot.

Exactly, the election of a member of the BNP to Parliament isn't the problem, it is a symptom of the problem.

And we ought to think about the above paragraph in the context of our own current political environment.

99 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:22:17am

re: #91 yma o hyd

Ahem - slight correction: their voters were not suburbanites - they were from former mining and industrial towns in Yorkshire and Humberland

Noted.

I didn't mean "suburbanites" in the American sense, but rather people from outlying urban areas that are not part of London. Sorry to be unclear.

100 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:22:38am

I've got two opposing views of this myself. On the one hand, I abhor the use of violence or violent acts in politics. Totally.
OTOH, throwing egss (assuming they they are not hard boiled) is unlikely to physically hurt someone and could be considered by some "liberal" readers of the First Amendment to the U.S. Consititution as someone's exercising their right to Free Speech (which SCOTUS loooong ago extended to include acts and exhibits). Admittedly GB doesn't have "Free Speech" rights, but I'm talking about in the US.
I suspect that the crowd will come down on the side of whomever is being "egged" if they support that person and on the side of the egg throwers on the other hand. Sorta like the guy in Iraq who threw a shoe at Bush. Those suffering from BDS thought it was either cool or funny or fitting. I doubt those same folks feel this way about these egg throwers.

101 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:23:01am

re: #97 Creeping Eruption

Look on the Sunny-Side. How long could we keep this Up?

Don't make me scramble the thread monitors on your ass. They'd love the chance to poach a comment like yours.

102 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:23:29am

re: #83 Kenneth

Be careful what you wish for.

Judging from the story there are 3 possible outcomes

1) Stays the same
2) The IRGC takes over
3) The moderates take over

If 1) that sucks. We're stuck with the "hope" that they behave themselves and there is a non-military solution to the direction the country is going but we'll continue to wait and hope and wait.

2) They become more overt and the world knows we need a military solution. One in which allies are easier to come by ala Gulf War I.

3) The world knows there IS a non-military solution and it is being realized.

Seems to me that option one is the crappiest. Not that I'm pro war and want to send other people's children into combat. I have a handful of family and friends who would be right there in front. On the flipside, they volunteered for precisely that type of thing.

103 n2stox  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:23:33am

re: #65 BLBfootballs

Pity. :-)


Sigh..... you're probably right.

I don't think 99% of political leaders, even the nasty fascistic ones, should be targeted by eggs. But one is not always upset to hear the news.

His election is only really significant in that it tells of the sociopolitical illness of modern Britain. In a context where governmental power blossoms and non-leftist thought is socially outlawed, the only remaining options are nasty neo-fascist parties. All the moderate rightists have been browbeaten into exile. The non-leftist voter is left with no other choice on the ballot.

I agree wholeheartedly with that last paragraph. I've been saying the same thing in previous threads. And, here in America, we get Ron Paul to fill the void.

When the moderate conservative candidates are cast out by the current liberal leadership, what is left for a moderate conservative? Either exit the process, join the far left, or join the far right. I doubt many moderates would join the left, so they are left to the other 2 choices.

We're getting the same treatment by the current administration. Free market principles: gone. Strong foreign policy: soon to be gone. national defense: currently being gutted to the bone. tax policy: up, up, up we go. Free choice in health care: on its way out. Just questioning these policies earns a fast rebuke and is often accompanied with questions of patriotism and all that liberal clap trap.

Just yesterday, the Solicitor General testified in front of the SCOTUS that the interests of the economy outweighed the interest of a few Chrysler bond holders. Nevermind the law, of course, it's in the interest of the "common good." Ginsberg herself issued the stay on the sale of assets. Who the heck thought I'd ever agree with her? Not me.

104 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:23:40am

re: #97 Creeping Eruption

Look on the Sunny-Side. How long could we keep this Up?

Let me know when the last egg pun has been used.
I'll give the thread a Benediction.

105 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:23:42am

re: #93 zombie

.

It is totally wrongheaded to assault prosecute your political opponents, unless you want to descend to third-world status.

Takes an even more sinister veneer when those in power contemplate doing just that.

106 Gus  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:23:56am

re: #97 Creeping Eruption

Look on the Sunny-Side. How long could we keep this Up?

The crowd scrambled as soon as the eggs started flying. /

107 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:24:09am

re: #87 ggt

I still don't get it, eggs or shoes. What is the purpose of throwing something at someone with whom you disagree?

What's even worse, is if throwing things at people of which you disagree becomes "acceptable", who's to say what happens next? Does it escalate? Does it become acceptable to walk up and hit someone with a fist? Perhaps bring out a stick? Move on to a knife? A gun?

108 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:24:35am

re: #87 ggt

Its a human nature thing, I'm guessing. Those who are the most committed to a cause, any cause, tend to be the most extreme I think. The cause doesn't even have to be political or controversial, in my mind, take runners for example.

109 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:24:35am

re: #100 realwest
PIMF: " I don't doubt those same folks feel this way about these egg throwers.

110 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:24:39am

Partially OT...

As much as criticism of Obama is rife on this board, I would probably be the first one (after Charles?) to say that I don't want him to fail. After all, the people who voted him in no longer trust right-wing politics...how jaded would they be if the left didn't turn out so well either?

111 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:25:05am

re: #101 Occasional Reader

Don't make me scramble the thread monitors on your ass. They'd love the chance to poach a comment like yours.

What is this new Yolk of oppression at LGF?

112 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:25:05am

re: #106 Gus 802

The crowd scrambled as soon as the eggs started flying. /

And Nick's brain was fried.

113 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:25:18am

re: #93 zombie

Clearly I type too slow, but yours is definitely much better worded than mine.

114 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:25:57am

re: #104 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Let me know when the last egg pun has been used.
I'll give the thread a Benediction.

After that I'll Huevos goodbye.

115 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:26:15am

re: #110 laZardo

Partially OT...

As much as criticism of Obama is rife on this board, I would probably be the first one (after Charles?) to say that I don't want him to fail. After all, the people who voted him in no longer trust right-wing politics...how jaded would they be if the left didn't turn out so well either?

Then let them stay home while we elect right-wing politicians.

116 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:26:24am

re: #106 Gus 802

Omlette-ing myself off the hook with this one.

117 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:26:25am

re: #111 Creeping Eruption

What is this new Yolk of oppression at LGF?

The BNP doesn't get the yolk, they only get the whites.

118 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:26:25am

re: #111 Creeping Eruption

What is this new Yolk of oppression at LGF?

It's a shelluva note, isn't it!

119 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:15am

re: #118 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It's a shelluva note, isn't it!

I'm ova-joyed to read it.

120 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:25am

re: #115 CommonCents

Given the politicians representing the right-wing today...might as well turn the country fascist.

121 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:26am

re: #117 wrenchwench

The BNP doesn't get the yolk, they only get the whites.

*BARF*

/highest compliment

122 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:35am

re: #111 Creeping Eruption

What is this new Yolk of oppression at LGF?

Nominated for a rotating title with a slight modification:

"The new yolk of oppression"

123 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:36am

re: #110 laZardo

Partially OT...

As much as criticism of Obama is rife on this board, I would probably be the first one (after Charles?) to say that I don't want him to fail. After all, the people who voted him in no longer trust right-wing politics...how jaded would they be if the left didn't turn out so well either?

Umm......'if'?

124 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:38am

I haven't had enough coffee.

Thanks to all who tried to explain eggs to me.

I guess I'm just not the throwing kind.

125 Baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:27:45am

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think a more effective protest tactic would just be showing up at every event with a sign reading "This is what happens when you vote for Fascists" with pictures of the death camps and their victims. Dont have to say anything.

Or to ignore him completely.

126 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:28:09am

re: #110 laZardo Hi laZardo, well the body politic is nothing if not fickle - from a link I put in the spin off links above:
"Voters Now Trust Republicans More than Democrats on Economic Issues"

127 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:28:34am

re: #98 Son of the Black Dog

Exactly, the election of a member of the BNP to Parliament isn't the problem, it is a symptom of the problem.

And we ought to think about the above paragraph in the context of our own current political environment.

Add my point is that the left, along with its allies in the MSM, have browbeaten the average Republican and/or conservative into silence, leaving only those on the fringe willing to speak. Hence the many examples of extreme thought that Charles has presented to us.

IMHO

128 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:28:45am

re: #111 Creeping Eruption

What is this new Yolk of oppression at LGF?

I'm just acting tough to impress the chicks. No need to hen-peck me.

129 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:28:51am

re: #121 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*BARF*

/highest compliment


Yeah, that's what my cat keeps trying to say....

130 wiffersnapper  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:28:52am

Those poor eggs!

131 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:28:53am

Charles posted:

Fascist MEP Pelted with Eggs
WORLD %P% Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:48:43 am PDT

The Holocaust-denying leader of the British National Party, Nick Griffin, now a member of European Parliament, was forced to abandon a press conference today when demonstrators showed up throwing eggs.

I find it interesting that because Charles posted this without comment or opinion, just the straight facts, that the lizard nation is kind of all over the map on how to respond to it. No consensus! (Though the vote seems to be tending toward "Egging was a bad idea.") I think many people might be wondering what the Head Honco's take on this is!

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:29:34am

re: #131 zombie

Charles posted:


I find it interesting that because Charles posted this without comment or opinion, just the straight facts, that the lizard nation is kind of all over the map on how to respond to it. No consensus! (Though the vote seems to be tending toward "Egging was a bad idea.") I think many people might be wondering what the Head Honco's take on this is!

laughter?

133 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:29:44am

re: #120 laZardo

Given the politicians representing the right-wing today...might as well turn the country fascist.

I don't know what you are referring to, but there are MANY on the right of American politics who don't fit that description. Just because there are a couple of blowhards propped up on Fox News doesn't make them the "representative" of the right-wing.

134 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:00am

re: #131 zombie

Given his reactions to the David Duke article from a few weeks back, I'd guess he would probably side with the no-eggers.

135 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:08am

re: #110 laZardo

Partially OT...

As much as criticism of Obama is rife on this board, I would probably be the first one (after Charles?) to say that I don't want him to fail. After all, the people who voted him in no longer trust right-wing politics...how jaded would they be if the left didn't turn out so well either?

He wasn't elected of course, but Ross Perot's failure (general wackiness) caused those advocating for third-parties to become disillusioned. I'd argue to this day, despite Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, etc...

136 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:23am

Pakistanis Seen Rising Up Against Taliban

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Villagers are rising up against the Taliban in a remote area in northern Pakistan, a grass roots rebellion that underscores the shift in the public mood in Pakistan against the militants and a growing confidence to confront them.

Several thousand villagers from the district of Dir have been fighting Taliban militants since Friday, when a Taliban suicide bomber detonated his payload in a mosque at prayer time, killing at least 40 villagers.

Enraged by the bombing, men from surrounding villages gathered and began looking for Taliban militants and their supporters. According to accounts from five local residents and an official, people went door-to-door, burning houses and killing at least 11 men they identified as Taliban fighters.

The uprising is not the first time that local people have formed their own militias to take on the Taliban, and previous efforts have often collapsed in the absence of strong support from the government and military. Some have ended in mass killings of local people by Taliban strong men.

But the latest attempt is significant, revealing the determination of the people of Dir to keep out both the Taliban and the military and to prevent their area from turning into another war zone, like the nearby Swat Valley, where millions have fled fighting already.

137 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:43am

re: #124 ggt
Hey ggt! I don't want to appear to be "Scroogish" and I find the puns sometimes very funny, but only on the DT or open threads. I find that they otherwise tend to get in the way of more serious conversations out here.

138 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:44am

re: #100 realwest

I'm with you RW. Egg throwing is more akin to pie throwing. A silly act IMO, but hardly a violent one..

139 Dianna  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:53am

re: #104 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Let me know when the last egg pun has been used.
I'll give the thread a Benediction.

But we're coddling those - like me - who are weak on our puns.

140 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:30:57am

re: #125 Baier

Or to ignore him completely.

Never ignore an enemy.

141 Miss Trixie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:31:05am

re: #101 Occasional Reader

Don't make me scramble the thread monitors on your ass. They'd love the chance to poach a comment like yours.

And you've got the giblets to do it too. :P

142 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:31:18am

Loathsome as I find Griffin and the BNP, I guess I come down on the of "egging was a bad idea", based mostly on the slippery slope argument.

And with that... lunch.

143 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:31:33am

re: #138 poteen

I'm with you RW. Egg throwing is more akin to pie throwing. A silly act IMO, but hardly a violent one..

/and it just eggs them on to spew their message.

144 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:31:54am

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir) Just an excellent comment and links - thanks Kragar!

145 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:31:57am

re: #131 zombie

We don't need consensus though, if there were exact reppititions of what ever take the Blog Owner took, that would mean the 'anti-LGF' nutters are right about this group. Knowing that there is the gamut of opinions here, all expressed in comfort, it is not surprising that there are differences of opinion on the egging of an idiot.

For the record, tossing things at a politician, no matter how idiotic that politician is, is wrong.

146 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:32:20am

Late on that comment. I gotta a voice activated keyboard.

147 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:32:31am

re: #138 poteen

I'm with you RW. Egg throwing is more akin to pie throwing. A silly act IMO, but hardly a violent one..

as well as assault and battery

148 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:33:13am

re: #139 Dianna

But we're coddling those - like me - who are weak on our puns.

Coddle not too much, lest they become deviled

149 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:33:15am

re: #133 CommonCents

They're certainly becoming more representative of the right from what I've heard. Especially with the chronicles of the many prominent right-wing bloggers embracing fascism.

150 KenJen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:33:30am

Hi guys. Back from lunch. I'm stuffed. My boss paid the bill. Won't grouse about that.

151 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:33:32am

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pakistanis Seen Rising Up Against Taliban

Damn if that doesn't read like Bill Roggio's article yesterday in LongWarJournal.com

152 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:34:20am

re: #147 sattv4u2

as well as assault and battery

They threw pancake mix, too? Oh, the humanity!

153 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:34:23am

re: #68 lawhawk

FYI: Kenneth Feinberg was the Special Master of the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund. I can't speak to the rest of that article, but thought it interesting that Feinberg's name came up in conjunction with that.

And the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund was an excellent example of Marxism in action. Payouts were geared to the family's assets. To each according to their need. So, take two families, identical except for their savings/spending habits. Equivalent incomes. One family spent everything earned, and then some - expensive house (mortgaged), expensive cars (leased), expensive vacations. The other family did without those expensive things, saved and invested. Guess which one got the compensation money?

154 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:34:28am
155 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:34:51am

re: #123 Fenway_Nation

Umm......'if'?

Soon to be "when," I suppose... which leads me to...

re: #126 realwest

Time to break out the Guy Fawkes Masks, I suppose? Unless they start to blame the "legacy" of conservative politics, e.g. the deregulation that enabled rampant abuse of lending...

156 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:35:00am

re: #150 KenJen

Hi guys. Back from lunch. I'm stuffed. My boss paid the bill. Won't grouse about that.

Hey: we are doing egg puns right now. Bird puns were earlier.

157 opnion  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:35:04am

re: #100 realwest

Real, missed saying hello on the last thread. How are you today?

158 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:35:39am

re: #152 Alberta Oil Peon

Next you're going to tell me they waffled on the issue.

159 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:35:54am

re: #138 poteen

I'm with you RW. Egg throwing is more akin to pie throwing. A silly act IMO, but hardly a violent one..

Well, just as a side note, what if the "target" you're throwing at happens to be allergic to albumen? Granted, it's a slim chance, but still? And well, it's still assault and battery, even if it is all in "fun".

160 mfarmer1  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:07am

He was elected by the people! You must respect the outcome! You are obligated to recognize his ideas and accept them as the will of the electorate! You must give him tax more tax money! The UN must invite him to speak in front of the General Assembly!

Sincerely,
Hamas

161 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:13am

Were they cage-free eggs?

162 Mike McDaniel  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:18am

One thing that having honest fascists in European politics does is to provide a contrast with conservatism. Not to mention making it impossible for the local propaganda press to call conservatives "fascist" - that position has already been taken by the real thing.

163 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:29am

re: #152 Alberta Oil Peon

They threw pancake mix, too? Oh, the humanity!

I'm not debating that throwing eggs is akin to throwing punches, or throwing sticks. I'm just stating that per statute, hitting someone with any object IS assault and battery, even something as benign as flour

164 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:40am

I'm sure their is a long tradition of throwing rotten fruit/vegies at politicians, etc in Britian.

It just seems so old school.

Though this would probably suffice:

Youtube Video
165 beholden  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:40am

Were they hard-boiled? If so, then that shows premeditation. Well, so does bringing eggs to a protest, I suppose.

Cleverly worded signs and pointed question may have sufficed.

166 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:36:52am

re: #138 poteen
Thanks - but no upding? LOL!
As I said though, I've two minds about this: I don't like (to put it very mildly) this Nick Griffin character at all, but wonder if this was the USA, would he not get some protection for HIS right to Freedom of Speech?
Don't a LOT of us complain when a Conservative goes to a college campus to speak and is shouted down?

167 Baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:02am

I just want to say, in my support of the egg throwers, maybe I do need to reconsider how I feel about things like this. But my family was destroyed by fascism and I think emotionally, rather than logically when confronted with jerks like this. I have a hard time accepting the fact that our tolerance in society extends to even people like this. But it does. I apologize, for offending.

168 rumcrook  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:06am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

if the main stream parties had started addressing the fact that islamic immigrants have taken over whole cities and proclaimed they will not assimilate, and will eventually take over the rest, instead of pretenting none of that is going on, these radical fascists would still be relagated to thier parents basements, or the corner pub warming a stool and complaining.

thier are a lot of scared people and fear can drive people to extremes, especially if they dont see the mainstream "political leaders" doing anything about it, or actively forcing people to act like its not happining.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:07am

OT, but related to earlier discussions: Op-Ed in the NYT about Jews expelled from Arab countries. Author wishes Obama'd commented.

Forwarded to me by Michael Lerner, with one of the most disgusting caveats I've ever seen, but whatever...

170 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:11am

re: #160 mfarmer1

He was elected by the people! You must respect the outcome! You are obligated to recognize his ideas and accept them as the will of the electorate! You must give him tax more tax money! The UN must invite him to speak in front of the General Assembly!

Sincerely,
Hamas

Are they going to put the disaffected youth to work in "metal shops"?

171 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:35am
172 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:51am

What Nick Griffin said about this to the BBC:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Interesting .... especially the Beeb asking if it wasn't really Griffin's fault for holding a press conference 'in the open' ...

173 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:37:58am

re: #147 sattv4u2

An assault maybe, but battery is almost always violent. Eggs are just messy.

174 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:03am

re: #162 Mike McDaniel

One thing that having honest fascists in European politics does is to provide a contrast with conservatism. Not to mention making it impossible for the local propaganda press to call conservatives "fascist" - that position has already been taken by the real thing.

They're tiptoeing around that with the monicker 'far-right'.

175 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:04am

re: #139 Dianna

But we're coddling those - like me - who are weak on our puns.

Feeling a spiritual need to forgive, I am now Russian to be Orthodox, by Faberge-ing an egg suitable for a liturgical benediction.

176 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:10am

re: #149 laZardo

They're certainly becoming more representative of the right from what I've heard. Especially with the chronicles of the many prominent right-wing bloggers embracing fascism.

Fascism comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology and a corporatist economic ideology. Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state (where Nancy Pelosi will not even meet with the Republicans). Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement (and call it a "fairness" doctrine). In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism. This was to be achieved by a form of government control over business and labour (where have I seen this recently).

This is what you say is being embraced on the Right Wing blogosphere?

177 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:20am

re: #155 laZardo
Did you read the spinoff linked article?

178 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:25am

will geller and spencer spin this as "constituents serving griffin breakfast?"

179 Mike McDaniel  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:26am

I'll add that if the Home Office does not provide police protection to this twit - however offensive he may be - they run a serious risk of him organizing his very own bodyguard.

And gaining votes for doing so.

180 JCM  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:30am

re: #145 Stonemason

We don't need consensus though, if there were exact reppititions of what ever take the Blog Owner took, that would mean the 'anti-LGF' nutters are right about this group. Knowing that there is the gamut of opinions here, all expressed in comfort, it is not surprising that there are differences of opinion on the egging of an idiot.

For the record, tossing things at a politician, no matter how idiotic that politician is, is wrong.

Egg throwing is not acceptable.

That doesn't mean we can't have a little fun with it at the expense of the target, or the throwing.

181 MJ  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:33am

By the way, the people throwing the eggs were members of Unite Against Fascism - a joint venture between the extremist Socialist Workers’ Party and the Ken Livingstone’s Socialist Action. Both these parties are also known for their own brand of antisemitism.

See David T's comment at Harry's Place:

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

182 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:38:47am

re: #163 sattv4u2

Or simply the threat of hitting if the threat is intended to cause apprehension of an unwanted action.

183 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:39:22am

Yes, we mustn't let those with whom we disagree have a turn at the microphone.
/

184 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:39:28am

re: #175 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Feeling a spiritual need to forgive, I am now Russian to be Orthodox, by Faberge-ing an egg suitable for a liturgical benediction.

Did you poach that from somewhere?

185 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:39:35am

re: #173 poteen

An assault maybe, but battery is almost always violent. Eggs are just messy.

Battery is contact. It does not have to be "violent".

186 Alberta Oil Peon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:39:41am

re: #163 sattv4u2

I'm not debating that throwing eggs is akin to throwing punches, or throwing sticks. I'm just stating that per statute, hitting someone with any object IS assault and battery, even something as benign as flour

Sheesh! Don't you think I know that? Of course it's assault, and eggs can do damage. Conceivably could destroy a person's eyesight if struck in the eye by one.

187 BLBfootballs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:39:50am

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Lerner is a real lunatic.

188 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:40:44am

re: #167 Baier

I just want to say, in my support of the egg throwers, maybe I do need to reconsider how I feel about things like this. But my family was destroyed by fascism and I think emotionally, rather than logically when confronted with jerks like this. I have a hard time accepting the fact that our tolerance in society extends to even people like this. But it does. I apologize, for offending.

{Baier}

Totally understandable - and it is indeed very difficult to find the line between proper protest against such thugs, and doing things which puts one on the same footing.
Its hard.

189 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:40:48am

re: #173 poteen

An assault maybe, but battery is almost always violent. Eggs are just messy.

In the US, assault is the apprehension or immediate fear of imminent harm or unwanted contact (the windup). Battery is the follow through, the actual contact.

190 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:40:52am

re: #173 poteen

An assault maybe, but battery is almost always violent. Eggs are just messy.

BATTERY
9. Law. an unlawful attack upon another person by beating or wounding, or by touching in an offensive manner.
10. an instrument used in battering

191 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:41:30am

re: #184 CommonCents

Did you poach that from somewhere?

No. I'm all alone here in my hermitage.

/I wonder if anyone is "getting" this line

192 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:41:51am

re: #180 JCM

Absolutely, there needs to be fun poked.

I was more concerned with the mention that 'we didn't know how to respond because Charles didn't tell us how to respond' part of the original comment.

193 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:41:55am

re: #177 realwest

I'll go click on it now but I'm not holding my breath.

re: #176 CommonCents

Pamela Geller and others come to mind...mainly as fascism is more clearly defined in its racial xenophobia (see BNP agenda). "Forced diversity" is more akin to communism, where everyone is forced to be equal.

194 KenJen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:42:03am

re: #190 sattv4u2

BATTERY
9. Law. an unlawful attack upon another person by beating or wounding, or by touching in an offensive manner.
10. an instrument used in battering

..and eggs are used in batter.

195 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:42:09am

re: #190 sattv4u2

BATTERY
9. Law. an unlawful attack upon another person by beating or wounding, or by touching in an offensive manner.
10. an instrument used in battering

11. The pitcher (egg thrower) and the catcher (egg recipient).

196 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:42:24am

Pakistan Aids Militia in Taliban Fight

Senior police officer Rahim Gul told Reuters by telephone two army helicopters had attacked militants surrounded by militia fighters in a village.

"There must be militant casualties but we don't know at the moment," Gul said, adding more people were joining the militia and it was making advances after heavy clashes.

Paramilitary soldiers had set up mortars on high ground above the village, Gul said later.

Previously, the army had not helped the militiamen because they were locked in close-quarter fighting with the Taliban and the military was worried it might hit them by mistake.

About 25 militants have been killed in the fighting, police and the military said.

The villagers' action is the latest in a series of instances of people turning on the Taliban in recent weeks, underscoring a shift in public opinion away from the hardline Islamists.

197 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:42:42am

re: #145 Stonemason
Well I'm not so sure of that - please read my #100, as corrected by my #109.

198 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:42:47am
199 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:42:52am

re: #189 Creeping Eruption

Although some states have gotten rid of battery altogether by listing either unwanted physical touching or threat of same under assault.

200 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:43:22am

Here is what one of the egg throwers has to say:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

She says, for example, she believes in free speech but not free speech for fascists ...

Very interesting.

201 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:43:32am

re: #180 JCM
Same comment to you my friend as I made to Stonemason in #197 above.

202 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:43:38am

re: #194 KenJen

..and eggs are used in batter.

unless you buy that Aunt Jemima instant crap that you only add water too!

//

203 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:43:48am

Building collapse in NC

204 JCM  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:43:59am

re: #164 Ben Hur

I'm sure their is a long tradition of throwing rotten fruit/vegies at politicians, etc in Britian.

It just seems so old school.

Though this would probably suffice:


[Video]

I think the pols should be in stocks in the town square, the every rotten vegetable and egg should be thrown with great glee. Then we can tar and feather them, and show them out of town on a rail.

The mob should have pitch forks and torches also.

Do that every election for a couple of years we'd see a change.

But that's just me.
/////////

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:44:06am

re: #173 poteen

An assault maybe, but battery is almost always violent. Eggs are just messy.

Making physical contact, with hand or projectile, makes it battery under U.S. law, and I think we got the definition from the U.K.

206 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:44:13am

re: #191 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No. I'm all alone here in my hermitage.

/I wonder if anyone is "getting" this line

I could tell you I got it, but it would be a total Faberge-tion.

207 MJ  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:44:21am

re: #200 yma o hyd

Here is what one of the egg throwers has to say:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

She says, for example, she believes in free speech but not free speech for fascists ...

Very interesting.

See who these people represent:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

208 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:44:26am

re: #203 Nevergiveup

Building collapse in NC

What part of the state?

209 JCM  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:44:43am

re: #184 CommonCents

Did you poach that from somewhere?

Forgive pBMb he's a little soft boiled.....

210 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:06am

re: #166 realwest

There ya go. 2 dings. As far as I'm concerned Griffin can go suck eggs but to elevate unborn chicken abuse to a "violent act" is something that people like him are likely to be in favor of.

211 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:08am
212 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:23am

re: #208 pre-Boomer Marine brat

What part of the state?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

About 12 to 15 employees at the ConAgra Foods plant suffered from exposure to toxic fumes from ammonia leaks following the collapse, Garner, N.C., Mayor Ronnie Williams told FOX-affiliate WRAL. Other employees also suffered burns, according to Williams.

213 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:43am

re: #206 Creeping Eruption

I could tell you I got it, but it would be a total Faberge-tion.

You're a gem!

/I think

214 Baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:46am

re: #185 MrSilverDragon

Battery is contact. It does not have to be "violent".



many serious injuries result in egg throwing.
[Link: www.nature.com...]

215 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:52am

re: #193 laZardo

I'll go click on it now but I'm not holding my breath.

re: #176 CommonCents

Pamela Geller and others come to mind...mainly as fascism is more clearly defined in its racial xenophobia (see BNP agenda). "Forced diversity" is more akin to communism, where everyone is forced to be equal.

Thanks for that. I'm happy to hear that Pam Geller speaks for all of us that didn't vote for Obama and love INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY. I believe that is the right-wing core value that doesn't "embrace" fascism.

216 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:45:58am

re: #200 yma o hyd
PERFECT! That expresses what I was feeling in #100 (corrected in #109) above.

Don't a LOT of us get worked up when a Conservative tries to exercise his Free Speech (usually at a college campus) and is shouted down?
Free speech for me, but not for thee isn't Free Speech at all.

217 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:46:20am

re: #137 realwest

Hey ggt! I don't want to appear to be "Scroogish" and I find the puns sometimes very funny, but only on the DT or open threads. I find that they otherwise tend to get in the way of more serious conversations out here.

Sorry, I find it difficult to be serious about eggs.

218 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:46:35am

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

OT, but related to earlier discussions: Op-Ed in the NYT about Jews expelled from Arab countries. Author wishes Obama'd commented.

Forwarded to me by Michael Lerner, with one of the most disgusting caveats I've ever seen, but whatever...

How did you get on Michael Lerner's mailing list? Eww.

219 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:46:43am

re: #197 realwest

Okay...please think about this...Idiot Ken tries to duck from hurled egg and hits head and is cuncussed.

Hurled egg hits priceless dodge dart, ruins paint.

Any object thrown at another human in protest is an attack, really, it is. It might sound like an innocent act, but it isn't, it is a step away from stones.

220 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:46:45am
221 Baier  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:46:49am

I apologized, stop down ticking me!
For gods sake!

222 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:47:09am

Economic Reporting: Then and Now

Or how the Obamedia spins the continuing bad economic news.

Best line:


"We're in a sustained cyclical recovery, beginning later this year!"
Youtube Video
223 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:47:22am

re: #207 MJ

See who these people represent:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Interesting indeed!

I'd think that people like Tony Benn and dave Cameron will now have their signatures taken off of that group, after the events today.

224 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:47:29am

re: #145 Stonemason

We don't need consensus though, if there were exact reppititions of what ever take the Blog Owner took, that would mean the 'anti-LGF' nutters are right about this group. Knowing that there is the gamut of opinions here, all expressed in comfort, it is not surprising that there are differences of opinion on the egging of an idiot.

True! Good point.

225 RoughRider  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:47:34am

re: #44 zombie

Who ever got the idea that physically assaulting and menacing your opposent was a way to discredit them or to win an argument?

It worked for the Democrat New Black Panther polling place goons in Philly.

226 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:47:39am

re: #203 Nevergiveup

Building collapse in NC

Is this it?

Emergency Workers Respond To Garner Building Collapse
Footage Shows Sections Of Roof Collapsed
POSTED: 12:02 pm EDT June 9, 2009
UPDATED: 12:41 pm EDT June 9, 2009

RALEIGH -- The ConAgra Food building in Garner has collapsed.

ConAgra Foods spokeswoman Stephanie Childs said Tuesday the company is assessing what happened at a plant in Garner.

There was no immediate word on any injuries. Television footage from the site showed medical crews tending to people outside. At least one car was crushed.

227 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:47:46am

re: #209 JCM

Forgive pBMb he's a little soft boiled.....

How many eggs do you like at breakfast?
wwhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *SPLAT*
wwhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *SPLAT*

More?

228 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:48:30am

re: #211 buzzsawmonkey

Great article, except for the author referring to Obama as being "so versed in history."

If Obama's historical knowledge is "versed," it's the versed I've ever seen.

Obama doesn't know shite about history.

229 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:48:41am

re: #222 Kenneth

I have no access to YouTube at work. Who's the brainchild behind that comment? It couldn't possibly be NBC.

230 Summersong  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:48:50am

re: #138 poteen

I'm with you RW. Egg throwing is more akin to pie throwing. A silly act IMO, but hardly a violent one..

Ever been hit with a egg, when you did know it was coming? I have. Felt like a rock.

231 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:49:05am

re: #216 realwest

they didn't shout him down, they threw projectiles at him, there is a big difference.

232 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:49:05am

re: #220 Iron Fist

Kind of what I figured. These people are their own brand of totalitarian. They prefer to be called "Socialists" or, more likely "International Socialists". Stalinists rather than fans of Hitler. Lovely.

"Are you the People's Popular Front?"
"WE PISS ON THE THE PPF! We're the Popular Front of the People!"

233 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #215 CommonCents

Individual liberty is more of a centrist, libertarian (lowercase 'l', mind) value IMO. I subscribe to "horseshoe theory," e.g. the extremist tips of the so-called political spectrum actually curve close together as they are both highly authoritarian.

234 Outrider  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:49:38am
..."The majority of people did not vote for the BNP, they did not vote at all. The BNP was able to dupe them into saying that they had an answer to people's problems.

Nick Griffin calls the protest 'an absolute outrage'

"They presented themselves as a mainstream party. The reality was because the turnout was so low, they actually got elected."...

Between our election and this one listed, two examples are provided of the cost of sitting out an election and trusting others to vote "correctly" or sitting out the election in protest because a candidate wasn't (*fill in blank) enough.

Because of their apathy, they now have a couple of BNPers. Because a candidate wasn't Conservative enough, we have Obama.

235 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:49:59am

re: #232 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Are you the People's Popular Front?"
"WE PISS ON THE THE PPF! We're the Popular Front of the People!"

SPLITTER! The People's Front for the Popular is the true movement!

/ q;

236 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:50:04am

Have a great day all!

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:50:20am

re: #218 Alouette

How did you get on Michael Lerner's mailing list? Eww.

I can't get OFF Michael Lerner's mailing list. God knows, I have tried. His IT people ain't the best.

I got ON it about seven years ago, when I published a book review in Tikkun, as part of trying to soften Michael up to publish another piece. In the end, I couldn't get him interested, but by that time he had my e-mail.

238 MJ  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:50:33am

re: #223 yma o hyd

Interesting indeed!

I'd think that people like Tony Benn and dave Cameron will now have their signatures taken off of that group, after the events today.

Don't know about Cameron but Benn is about as Far Left as the BNP is Far Right.

239 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:50:36am

re: #205 SanFranciscoZionist

Maybe so, but theres a huge difference between eggs and tomatoes as opposed to rock and bottles, down through their history and ours.

240 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:50:41am

Oh, for f**ks sake, these are eggs not bullets. geez!
Before you ding me consider how rational I am, mostly.

241 callahan23  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:50:42am

The very respected Henryk M. Broder wrote an opinion piece in the German magazine Der Spiegel:
Excerpts:

Was it a swing to the right -- or just a return to reality? The result of the EU elections is not some terrible portent of doom. Instead, it is evidence that voters reward populists like Geert Wilders, who are not afraid to address issues that other parties don't want to touch.
There is always a certain amount of risk associated with any election. It is a truth recognized by dictators around the world -- ......
.... The outcome of the European parliamentary elections was different. It was a disaster that became apparent as early as Thursday, when the results from the Netherlands became public. The right-wing populist Geert Wilders and his Freedom Party ended up as the second stronges strongest party in the country behind the Christian Democrats. ...
.... The populace does not always know what it wants. But mostly it knows what it does not want. And that's a good thing.


I just like commentators like him who oppose the"Disdain for the Voting Public" the intellectual political and media 'elites' have.

All 'n all a reasoned comment on the EU-Parliaments elections. Worth a read.

242 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:03am

re: #235 laZardo

Good grief, you guys are starting to sound like 9/11 Troof these days.

/DISINFO! The Front of the Popular People is reality!

243 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:06am

re: #235 laZardo

SPLITTER! The People's Front for the Popular is the true movement!

/ q;

What about the Independent People's Front? Nevermind, he is over there.

244 Outrider  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:32am

re: #240 unrealizedviewpoint

Oh, for f**ks sake, these are eggs not bullets. geez!
Before you ding me consider how rational I am, mostly.

you ever been hit by an egg hurled at full force?

245 JCM  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:40am

re: #227 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How many eggs do you like at breakfast?
wwhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *SPLAT*
wwhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *SPLAT*

More?

*wipes off egg*

3 egg southwestern omelets are nice!
:-)

246 Summersong  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:45am

re: #230 Summersong

Ever been hit with a egg, when you did know it was coming? I have. Felt like a rock.



Ugh- Didn't know it was coming

247 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:48am

Why waste good eggs when rotten tomatoes are readily available?

248 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:51:51am

re: #216 realwest

PERFECT! That expresses what I was feeling in #100 (corrected in #109) above.

Don't a LOT of us get worked up when a Conservative tries to exercise his Free Speech (usually at a college campus) and is shouted down?
Free speech for me, but not for thee isn't Free Speech at all.

Indeed it is not - and all those who say this never seem to grasp that denying free speech to some segments of the people because of their politics is not going to prevent these same people to get voted in - as we've seen!

Why didn't all these anti-fascists work to get NuLab elected up North? Would have prevented the BNP from getting in ...
(Probably was not as easy as walking around, shouting and throwing eggs ...)

249 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:52:16am

re: #246 Summersong


Ugh- Didn't know it was coming

Thats what she said.

/rimshot

250 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:52:22am

re: #240 unrealizedviewpoint

Oh, for f**ks sake, these are eggs not bullets. geez!
Before you ding me consider how rational I am, mostly.

Yes, but they're also salmonella grenades. Dispensers of disease.
And you could suffer from shell fragments........
/////

251 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:52:26am

Well, at least the Wall Street Journal gets it:

The Media Fall for Phony 'Jobs' Claims
The Obama Numbers Are Pure Fiction.

I love this line:

However dubious it may be as an economic measure, as a political formula "save or create" allows the president to invoke numbers that convey an illusion of precision. Harvard economist and former Bush economic adviser Greg Mankiw calls it a "non-measurable metric."

In short, Obama's "formula" means nothing, but there's no real way to disprove a claim that "more jobs would have been lost if we hadn't done (fill in the blank).

It's pure b.s.

252 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:52:28am

re: #212 Nevergiveup

Thanks.

253 Andrew Brehm  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:52:31am

re: #18 laZardo

Evening folks, quick question about the EU polls...

What do you guys think of Germany's Free Democrats? They're described as "liberals" on BBC World but not in the SDP sense...

When I lived in Germany I was a member of that party. They are nominally and in many ways "liberals" in the pro-market-economy and pro-civil-rights sense.

Starting in 2001 they took an anti-Semitic turn (see [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] and many prominent Jewish members left the party. They have never recovered from this and never did much to correct the perception.

They usually get between 5% and 15% of the vote and often end up in coalitions with most often the conservative pro-Israel Christian Democrats and less often the Social Democrats. Their voters are not usually interested in foreign policy.

I left the party in 2004 when I moved to Ireland. I wouldn't want to a member now. In 1998, when I joined the party, it looked very promising though.

In the American spectrum you would expect them to be somewhere between Republicans and Democrats: more right-wing than Democrats, more left-wing than Republicans, and completely neutral on foreign policy.

254 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:52:48am

Using fascist tactics to silence a fascist? How ironic.

255 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:53:03am

re: #229 CommonCents

That was from a "financial reporter" at CNN. The statement was pure nonsense.

256 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:53:06am

re: #250 LGoPs

Yes, but they're also salmonella grenades. Dispensers of disease.
And you could suffer from shell fragments........
/////

Well, the Frank Burns' of the world deserve Purple Hearts, too.

257 CommonCents  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:53:21am

re: #250 LGoPs

Yes, but they're also salmonella grenades. Dispensers of disease.
And you could suffer from shell fragments........
/////

Book 'em Dano. Charged as terrorists using biological agents.
//

258 Andrew Brehm  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:53:43am

LGF decided to assimilate ")" into the URL for some reason. Remove the ")" from the Wikipedia link to get to the article.

259 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:54:09am

Throwing eggs at people instead of debating them is a typical lefty tactic. Remember they always try to disrupt speeches in colleges by conservatives, using all sorts of disruptive methods including a pie to the face.

I'm no fan of the BNP, but disrupting their interviews and public appearances is no answer and against the spirit of democracy. I strongly disagree with President Obama on just about everything, yet I would never throw anything at him nor would I encourage anyone to do so out of respect to the office and the fact he was elected in a free, democratic election. Of course, the Secret Service would also express their disapproval in some rather strong terms too, but that's another story.

Plus such gestures are useless and often wind up creating sympathy for the target anyway. I'd much rather debate in the arena of ideas.

260 laZardo  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:54:16am

re: #243 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[looks over there]

SPLITTER!

261 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:54:26am

re: #239 poteen

Maybe so, but theres a huge difference between eggs and tomatoes as opposed to rock and bottles, down through their history and ours.

Perhaps for the sentencing phase if one was indicetd on battery charges, but not for the charge itself

262 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:54:40am

re: #238 MJ

Don't know about Cameron but Benn is about as Far Left as the BNP is Far Right.

Sure - but he's a most respected 'elder statesman' of the Labour Party, who surely wounld not condone this sort of thing.

(I live in hope ...)

263 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:54:46am

re: #245 JCM

*wipes off egg*

3 egg southwestern omelets are nice!
:-)

wwhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *SPLAT*

/always eager to please

264 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:55:07am

re: #4 MrSilverDragon

I may disagree vehemently with what that man believes, but at least I would have the deceny to argue vocally and as rationally as I possibly could, and not sink to the level of assault. For crying out loud, people, why drag yourselves down to the level of a common thug?

rational argument doesn't work with fascists. See WWII.

265 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:55:16am

Next time they should throw omeletes. But leave out any ingrediants that could be ballistically dangerous....like mushrooms.
//////

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:55:56am

I don't approve. I wouldn't join in. I think those responsible should be accountable under the law.

That said, I am forced to comment that there is a long British folk tradition of throwing foodstuffs at politicians you don't like, and perhaps the BNP should consider that these people are motivated by their ancient white folkways when they egg Nick Griffin.

267 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:56:01am

re: #219 Stonemason

Okay...please think about this...Idiot Ken tries to duck from hurled egg and hits head and is cuncussed.

Hurled egg hits priceless dodge dart, ruins paint.

Any object thrown at another human in protest is an attack, really, it is. It might sound like an innocent act, but it isn't, it is a step away from stones.

Definitley an attack and illegal, but not in same class as stones. I'd guess eggs are chosen because they generally don't injure. Whether egg thrower is merely kind or seeking to avoid harsher punishment is another question. Nice avatar by the way.

268 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:56:09am

re: #157 opnion
Hey opnion - sorry to be late with this reply, just trying to read the thread skimming past the puns - I'm not doing so hot, got an appoitment with Onc tomorrow.
How are you doing today?

269 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:56:16am

Jun 9, 2009 9:03 am US/Eastern
CHAOS IN ALBANY: GOP Coup Upsets Balance In Senate
Malcolm Smith Ousted As Senate Majority Leader; Dems Turn Off Lights, Cut Internet Power In Attempt To Stop Coup
Paterson Goes Ballistic: I'm Here To Stand Up For Democracy

ALBANY (CBS) ― Republicans, who lost control of the New York State Senate last November have apparently regained control, and without an election!

The GOP power play involves two renegade Democrats and a billionaire businessman.

270 yma o hyd  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:56:23am

re: #241 callahan23

Thanks - indeed, the 'elites', especially on the left, have an utter disdain for their voters, and for 'the people' generally.

We've just seen how that plays out in elections ...

271 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:56:48am

re: #244 Outrider

you ever been hit by an egg hurled at full force?

Who's throwing these full force eggs? Baseball pitchers? Geez!

272 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:56:54am

re: #264 ihateronpaul

rational argument doesn't work with fascists. See WWII.

It doesn't work with extremists of any stripe, political or religious.

273 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:57:27am

re: #267 Flyers1974

!974...you have been waiting a long time. Frustrating through the eighties!

274 infidel4ever  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:57:51am

Great article by Melanie Phillips:

Nevertheless, they have been able to seize their opportunity – and not just because of the expenses scandal. No, the rot in our culture that has let in the BNP goes far, far deeper than that. It is because it has turned attachment to national identity itself into a crime. Anyone who objects to multi-culturalism is called a bigot; anyone who wants to curb immigration is called a racist; anyone who objects to the Islamisation of Britain is called an Islamophobe; anyone who wants to leave the EU and regain the power of national self-government is called a xenophobe; anyone, in short, who wants to retain Britain’s national identity rooted in the shared particulars of religion, law, history, traditions and culture and its powers as a self-governing nation finds themselves ostracised as a pariah.


The real reason for this

The BNP has two seats in the European Duma. Hardly a threat to whatever is left of democracy in the EUSSR. Maybe it will be a learning experience for the Brits... Not for the "righteous" politicians, they are already busy looking at ways to gerrymander the system in order to keep (what they consider to be) bad choices of the public out of the EU Parliament. Only the elite knows what good for us...

And violence against an elected politician, even a racist one, is wrong. Period. Only thugs do that.

275 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:57:57am

re: #264 ihateronpaul

But what about Franco? Or maybe that wasn't argument as much as being smart enough to understand self-preservation.

276 opnion  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:58:01am

re: #268 realwest

Hey opnion - sorry to be late with this reply, just trying to read the thread skimming past the puns - I'm not doing so hot, got an appoitment with Onc tomorrow.
How are you doing today?

I"m fine &I do wish that you felt better. let's hope that the doc has good news for you tomorrow.

277 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:58:15am

From Drudge:

CBS EVENING NEWS FALLS TO ALL-TIME LOW; 5,180,000 VIEWERS FOR COURIC

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:58:55am

re: #264 ihateronpaul

rational argument doesn't work with fascists. See WWII.

Rational argument works in a civil society, which Britain is. See, "There'll Always Be A..."

This isn't about appeasement, this is about preserving the law, and a law-abiding society.

279 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:59:28am

re: #277 Nevergiveup

From Drudge:

CBS EVENING NEWS FALLS TO ALL-TIME LOW; 5,180,000 VIEWERS FOR COURIC

That's still 5,180,000 more than I would have guessed.

280 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:59:32am

re: #277 Nevergiveup

From Drudge:

CBS EVENING NEWS FALLS TO ALL-TIME LOW; 5,180,000 VIEWERS FOR COURIC

This is just icing on the cake:

CBS 5,180,000*

*Lowest Total Viewer delivery since NIELSEN records kept

281 Kragar  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:59:37am

re: #277 Nevergiveup

From Drudge:

CBS EVENING NEWS FALLS TO ALL-TIME LOW; 5,180,000 VIEWERS FOR COURIC

Who even watches the evening news anymore?

282 opnion  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:05am

re: #272 Leonidas Hoplite

It doesn't work with extremists of any stripe, political or religious.

Right, neither the Nazis or the Bolsheviks were big on free speech for others.

283 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:33am

Bring back those good old medieval punishments, the stocks and pillories:

[Link: medievalcrimeandpunishment.wetpaint.com...]

"Once a person was at the stocks they were " at the mercy of the mob". Once the accused was at the stocks the crowd would pelt them with literally anything that could fit in their hands. The crowd threw vegetables and fruit that were rotten, mud, dead rodents especailly rats, excretment and stones.

The individual not only suffered humilation, abuse and mockey but also the pain of not been able to move. Some individuals evn had their ears nailed to the stocks to prevent them moving even more. Sometime in order to avoid the rotten vegetables and other items that were thrown at them, the accused would move and in the process rip their ears, which was extremely painful.

Some people in history that suffered the humiliation and pain at the stocks:

Names
Reason For Been In The Stocks
John Waller Robbery and Prejury
Ann Marrow Fraud and Same Sex Marriges (three).
Vere Street Coterie Homosexual Offences
Titus Oates Perjury and the inventor of the Popish Plot"

284 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:34am

Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) says he has requested to meet privately with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) this year, but has been repeatedly rebuffed.

In an interview with The Hill, the minority whip said, “I have been told that Speaker Pelosi doesn’t like to meet with Republicans … I would say that is the case in my instance. I have put in requests to meet with her and have yet to be responded to.”

[Link: thehill.com...]

285 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:34am

re: #281 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who even watches the evening news anymore?

The rival networks. To see what stories they can pile on.
/

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:46am

re: #281 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who even watches the evening news anymore?

My mother watches what used to be McNeil/Lehrer religiously, and I usually turn on the ten or eleven o'clock news to see if anything local I should know about is happening.

287 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:48am

re: #269 FurryOldGuyJeans

Jun 9, 2009 9:03 am US/Eastern
CHAOS IN ALBANY: GOP Coup Upsets Balance In Senate
Malcolm Smith Ousted As Senate Majority Leader; Dems Turn Off Lights, Cut Internet Power In Attempt To Stop Coup
Paterson Goes Ballistic: I'm Here To Stand Up For Democracy


I posted that in the overnight, and asked if the paper had termed it a "COUP" when Atlen Spectre switched parties

288 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:50am

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't get OFF Michael Lerner's mailing list. God knows, I have tried. His IT people ain't the best.

I got ON it about seven years ago, when I published a book review in Tikkun, as part of trying to soften Michael up to publish another piece. In the end, I couldn't get him interested, but by that time he had my e-mail.

You can add a SPAM filter. That's what I do with unsolicited mailing lists.

289 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:00:51am

re: #264 ihateronpaul

rational argument doesn't work with fascists. See WWII.

So reverting to physical attacks is a better way to go? I do not agree.

Unless someone is attacking me physically, I will defend with words. Cross the line, I defend with actions.

290 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:01:01am

re: #273 Stonemason

!974...you have been waiting a long time. Frustrating through the eighties!

Who would have thought in 1975 that that was the last cup for Philly? The Flyers I knew have ceased to exist. Even if they won next year, no more personality, like the old days. Phils looking nice at least.

291 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:01:05am

re: #281 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who even watches the evening news anymore?

My mother, for one, national and local. She also watches the late evening news.

292 Desert Dog  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:01:53am

re: #284 Nevergiveup

Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) says he has requested to meet privately with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) this year, but has been repeatedly rebuffed.

In an interview with The Hill, the minority whip said, “I have been told that Speaker Pelosi doesn’t like to meet with Republicans … I would say that is the case in my instance. I have put in requests to meet with her and have yet to be responded to.”

[Link: thehill.com...]

What comes around goes around. The Dems will not be in power forever. Wonder if that thought even crosses her mind?

293 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:01:57am

re: #198 Iron Fist
"It is almost definately battery, at least under US law. Swing at someone and miss == assault. Swing at someone and hit (even just push them) == assault and battery. The touch gives you battry under the law in most jurisdictions in the US."
I KNOW you're not a lawyer, wonder how it is you know that so well?!
:)

294 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:02:07am

re: #287 sattv4u2

I posted that in the overnight, and asked if the paper had termed it a "COUP" when Atlen Spectre switched parties

re: #284 Nevergiveup

Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) says he has requested to meet privately with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) this year, but has been repeatedly rebuffed.

In an interview with The Hill, the minority whip said, “I have been told that Speaker Pelosi doesn’t like to meet with Republicans … I would say that is the case in my instance. I have put in requests to meet with her and have yet to be responded to.”

[Link: thehill.com...]

I posted that oen in the overnight also, stating see what happens when the adults aren;'t in charge anymoe!

Lights turned off,,,, requests for meetings ignored ,,,,

295 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:02:42am

This is an interesting take on the European elections.

Europe swings Right as depression deepens

296 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:02:45am

re: #261 sattv4u2

If you want define it so tightly then every kid in a snowball fight (or eggs in the summer) is guilty of assault and battery. Again, my point is the big difference in "violent" intent between rocks and eggs.

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:02:57am

re: #288 Alouette

You can add a SPAM filter. That's what I do with unsolicited mailing lists.

True, but I actually sort of enjoy his updates now--the rambling, extremely detailed writing, the various delusions of grandeur--the account of the inauguration that went on a LITTLE too long about how it was cold, and he couldn't get a cab.

Plus, I sometimes blog about the stuff he sends me.

298 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:03:30am

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

True, but I actually sort of enjoy his updates now--the rambling, extremely detailed writing, the various delusions of grandeur--the account of the inauguration that went on a LITTLE too long about how it was cold, and he couldn't get a cab.

Plus, I sometimes blog about the stuff he sends me.

What's your blog? I'll add it to my blogroll.

299 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:03:38am

#68 lawhawk

FYI: Kenneth Feinberg was the Special Master of the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund. I can't speak to the rest of that article, but thought it interesting that Feinberg's name came up in conjunction with that.

Thanks for the info. I did a search on Feinberg, and even a conservative article said he did a good job in dispersing funds from 9/11 VCF, although Feinberg stated he didn't want this to be a precedent. So, according to the articles I just, does it mean having Feinberg as pay czar is a positive thing?

300 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:03:40am

re: #287 sattv4u2

I posted that in the overnight, and asked if the paper had termed it a "COUP" when Atlen Spectre switched parties

Both parties are acting like a herd of horses' asses.

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:04:02am

re: #293 realwest

"It is almost definately battery, at least under US law. Swing at someone and miss == assault. Swing at someone and hit (even just push them) == assault and battery. The touch gives you battry under the law in most jurisdictions in the US."
I KNOW you're not a lawyer, wonder how it is you know that so well?!
:)

I can't speak for the original poster, but my dad was a cop, and he taught me that when I was about nine.

302 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:04:11am

re: #284 Nevergiveup

The harsh truth is that Pelosi doesn't need the Republicans to do whatever she wants. Cantor's opinion on any subject is irrelevant to her.

If enough Democrats defect to GOP positions, or after the next election, that may change.

303 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:04:27am

re: #296 poteen

If you want define it so tightly then every kid in a snowball fight (or eggs in the summer) is guilty of assault and battery. Again, my point is the big difference in "violent" intent between rocks and eggs.

And we've all agreed with you that there IS a difference, but what you seem to not agree is that BOTH ARE battery

304 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:04:47am

re: #281 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Who even watches the evening news anymore?

My wife. Actually, it's more the local news, which can be even worse. One night there were no auto accidents, no shootings, no fires, and no robberies.

It was 25 minutes of a blank screen, followed by sports and weather.

;-)

305 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:05:13am

re: #298 Alouette

What's your blog? I'll add it to my blogroll.

I'm at [Link: www.balabustabluejeans.blogspot.com...]

306 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:05:38am

re: #296 poteen

If you want define it so tightly then every kid in a snowball fight (or eggs in the summer) is guilty of assault and battery. Again, my point is the big difference in "violent" intent between rocks and eggs.

If snowball fight is consensual, not assault. If not consensual, it is indeed an assault.

307 JCM  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:05:43am

re: #250 LGoPs

Yes, but they're also salmonella grenades. Dispensers of disease.
And you could suffer from shell fragments........
/////

Not to mention shell shock!

308 Stonemason  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:06:20am

re: #296 poteen

the man on the other end of the eggs did not know they were not rocks painted to look like eggs. Only when they began to break could he be sure.

I hate it when people shout down the opposition, however, that is a legal maneuver, throwing projectiles of any sort is illegal, wrong, and not part of rational discourse.

309 SummerSong  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:06:24am

re: #271 unrealizedviewpoint

Who's throwing these full force eggs? Baseball pitchers? Geez!

In my case, a car full of teen-aged boys. I was 10 years old.

310 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:06:45am
311 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:07:01am

re: #287 sattv4u2

As a New Yorker, I can tell you that our state politicians in Albany don't have coups de etat. As lawhawk has pointed out elsewhere, it's more like a circus with bungling clowns.

312 callahan23  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:07:25am

re: #270 yma o hyd

Thanks - indeed, the 'elites', especially on the left, have an utter disdain for their voters, and for 'the people' generally.

We've just seen how that plays out in elections ...

The disdain for the voters goes even to those low levels as to call on them that they "should be ashamed of themselves." From the Spiegel article again:

.... Many were horrified. The correspondent for German public radio station ARD even called Wilders a "peroxide blond blowhard," a "sleazy provocateur" and a "petty patriot." In his commentary, the ARD correspondent went on to say that "his political program is focused entirely on demonizing Islam" and finished by saying that the Dutch should be ashamed of themselves.....

The public itself voiced in these last elections and in their tuning-in of TV programs what they think of these very same arrogant 'elitist' journalists and politicians.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:07:51am

re: #306 Flyers1974

If snowball fight is consensual, not assault. If not consensual, it is indeed an assault.

Similar to the way a fencing match is legal, but runnning up to someone on the street and poking them with a long metal rod is not.

314 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:08:06am
315 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:08:18am

re: #311 quickjustice

As a New Yorker, I can tell you that our state politicians in Albany don't have coups de etat. As lawhawk has pointed out elsewhere, it's more like a circus with bungling clowns.

I cut my teeth watching Boston and Massachusetts politics.

I've been to the circus!

316 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:09:18am

re: #299 ladycatnip

#68 lawhawk

Thanks for the info. I did a search on Feinberg, and even a conservative article said he did a good job in dispersing funds from 9/11 VCF, although Feinberg stated he didn't want this to be a precedent. So, according to the articles I just, does it mean having Feinberg as pay czar is a positive thing?

G-D bless the Czar and keep him far away from us

317 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:09:38am

re: #314 buzzsawmonkey

...And indeed there will be time
For the mellow fog that slides throughout the news,
Rubbing its back upon the TV screens; 25
There will be time, there will be time
To prepare a face to show that I am not confused;
There will be time to save jobs and create,
And time for all the works and days of hands
That lift and drop a question on your plate; 30
Time for you to yet wake up,
And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
And for a hundred visions and revisions,
While eating waffles with Vermont syrup.

In the pressroom Teleprompters crawl 35
With wrapups of the last town hall...

--from "The Stimulus of B. H. Obama," with apologies to T.S. Eliot


Okay, that's absolutely brilliant! (And one of my favorite poems to boot!)

318 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:09:51am

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Similar to the way a fencing match is legal, but runnning up to someone on the street and poking them with a long metal rod is not.

Yes sir. But hide rocks in the snowballs used in the consensual snowball fight and you have assault. Or battery or both depending on your state.

319 zombie  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:10:33am

re: #225 RoughRider

It worked for the Democrat New Black Panther polling place goons in Philly.

Once again -- do we want to be associated with protesters who act in the same way as the New Black Panther Party?

320 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:10:34am

re: #219 Stonemason
I'm not disagreeing here Stonemason - I thought I had said I don't think violence has any place in politics.
But again, SOME people might see the egg throwers (if this had happened in the U.S.) as being protected because they were exercising THEIR rights to freedom of expression.
Lord knows, a LOT of Americans thought it was cool or just or whatever when that Iraqi "reporter" throw two shoes at President Bush and that he was merely expressing his free speech. Doesn't matter to me if it's eggs, cream pies, rocks or simply shouting down someone; freedom of speech exists ONLY if it exists for all - and without violence.

321 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:10:55am

re: #302 quickjustice

One thing I do hope is that if Republicans ever regain power they remember how they were treated by this current Democrat regime. The Republicans, in my opinion, bent over backwards to be bi-partisan during the Bush years and have been rewarded by the Democrats shutting them out of the political process. I hope elephants do have a long memory...

322 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:11:01am

re: #295 John Neverbend

This is an interesting take on the European elections.

Europe swings Right as depression deepens

What I find odd is that he actually used the word depression in the article. Finally someone is calling it what it actually is and not tip toeing around the dreaded "D" word.

"A depression is any economic downturn where real GDP declines by more than 10 percent."

We are already at that level and dropping. 5.6% in the last quarter and 6.3% in the last quarter of 2008. By my math the last two quarters were a negative 12.1%. Well above the accepted definition of depression even though the MSM won't dare utter that word.

323 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:11:15am

re: #305 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm at [Link: www.balabustabluejeans.blogspot.com...]

OK, done.

324 callahan23  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:11:18am

re: #295 John Neverbend

This is an interesting take on the European elections.

Europe swings Right as depression deepens

And another angle from the Canadian 'The Globe and Mail':
Capitalism lives

So much for the end of capitalism. With responsibility for the economic crisis squarely placed on the excesses of the free market, it was widely assumed that the recession would prove fertile ground for the centre-left. Yet, while European economies are suffering severely, EU elections have produced precisely the opposite result. ....
325 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:11:19am
326 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:12:05am

re: #319 zombie

Once again -- do we want to be associated with protesters who act in the same way as the New Black Panther Party?

Well ,,, they do have tose cool berets' and fingerless gloves!

////////////////////////

327 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:12:14am

#287 sattv4u2

I posted that in the overnight, and asked if the paper had termed it a "COUP" when Atlen Spectre switched parties

Coup and regime; used by the msm for republican politics.

328 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:12:42am

re: #231 Stonemason
Only in the means to shut him up, not the intent.

329 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:14:25am

re: #321 Land Shark

One thing I do hope is that if Republicans ever regain power they remember how they were treated by this current Democrat regime. The Republicans, in my opinion, bent over backwards to be bi-partisan during the Bush years and have been rewarded by the Democrats shutting them out of the political process. I hope elephants do have a long memory...

Hasn't the treatment of the out-of-power party been identical? And if my memory is faulty, i'd say better treatment is not because one party is kinder. If one party lets the other one in, its because they sense that is the politically expedient thing to do, in my opinion.

330 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:14:44am

re: #320 realwest

SOME people might see the egg throwers (if this had happened in the U.S.) as being protected because they were exercising THEIR rights to freedom of expression.

So what? Rule of law, and all that

Hell, by that reasoning, SOME people might see bigamists as exercising THEIR rights of freedom of religion

331 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:16:06am

re: #204 JCM

They should be subjected to stocks and pillories only after conviction meriting public humiliation. Loathsome though this guy is, he hasn't been convicted of anything.

Decades ago, shoving pies in the faces of despised public celebrities was the stunt of choice on college campuses. Thank you, Soupy Sales!

332 Wishbone  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:16:14am

re: #164 Ben Hur

I'm sure their is a long tradition of throwing rotten fruit/vegies at politicians, etc in Britian.

It just seems so old school.

Kerching!....... You win the cash prize: My ha'pennys worth, that is.

In modern instances, it's eggs 'cos they're messy when they hit and easy to transport.

We do indeed have a long tradition of throwing various dairy products, fruit and vegetables. If you ever found yourself in the village stocks, it was a dead cert that the local population would turn out and heva fun by pelting you with whatever rotten they could find lying about the kitchen. Ditto for a bad performance at Ye Local Playhouse. On a good night, whatever they threw wasn't too putrid and maybe the actors got to eat that night.

re: #198 Iron Fist

Assault and Battery are dealt with under the same definitions in both US and British law. The offence of 'common assault' is treated under the assumption of both having occurred under section 39 of the Criminal Justice act.


NB. Anyone thinking that having an egg thrown at them is in any way 'harmless' should think again. I hit my brother a doozy in the side of his head years ago, full force from about ten yards out. His ear was lacerated from the shell and the bruising was quite extensive. Needless to say, I never thought about lobbing eggs around so casually again.

333 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:18:10am

re: #303 sattv4u2

re: #308 Stonemason

Retract "maybe so" , insert so stipulated. Semantics But egs and rocks are not the same and should not be considered so. Throwing eggs at Griffin was a useless act by silly people but not a "violent" one.

the man on the other end of the eggs did not know they were not rocks painted to look like eggs. Only when they began to break could he be sure.

I hate it when people shout down the opposition, however, that is a legal maneuver, throwing projectiles of any sort is illegal, wrong, and not part of rational discourse.

Agreed. But once again , if this is violence then we're in trouble.

334 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:18:20am

re: #280 FurryOldGuyJeans
Gee, maybe Sarah Palin will hire Katie as her press secretary?!
/

335 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:19:14am

re: #329 Flyers1974

The Republicans did not treat the Democrats like that when they had power. Period. To claim otherwise flies in the face of reality.

Granted, the GOP did not have the overwhelming advantage in Congress the Democrats currently do, but starting with GW Bush and on down they made a clear effort to be bi partisan. The Democrats have made no such effort.

336 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:19:42am

re: #292 Desert Dog

What comes around goes around. The Dems will not be in power forever. Wonder if that thought even crosses her mind?


What mind?

337 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:21:34am

re: #301 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't speak for the original poster, but my dad was a cop, and he taught me that when I was about nine.


Then y'all don't know Iron Fist! Wish he'd seen it, he'd
have laughed!

338 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:22:35am

re: #68 lawhawk

I've met Ken Feinberg, a Kennedy Democrat, whom the Bush Administration selected to head up the Victim Compensation Fund after 9/11. I found him thoughtful and civil. His legal specialty was non-litigation dispute resolution.

I don't know what his job as "pay czar" entails, but based upon his background, I'd think it's dispute resolution (labor-management?) short of litigation.

339 tradewind  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:23:34am

re: #12 lawhawk
I thought Holocaust denying was illegal there.... how could he hold office?

340 lurking faith  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:23:42am

re: #329 Flyers1974

Hasn't the treatment of the out-of-power party been identical? And if my memory is faulty, i'd say better treatment is not because one party is kinder. If one party lets the other one in, its because they sense that is the politically expedient thing to do, in my opinion.

Identical? Are you kidding me? Bush 43 practically handed Teddy Kennedy a blank slate to scribble the No Child Left Behind legislation on.

Obama, by contrast, won't even look at ideas from the opposition; indeed, he does his best to pretend such ideas don't exist.

341 tradewind  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:25:33am

re: #336 realwest
It's starting.......
[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

342 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:25:43am

re: #335 Land Shark

The Republicans did not treat the Democrats like that when they had power. Period. To claim otherwise flies in the face of reality.

Granted, the GOP did not have the overwhelming advantage in Congress the Democrats currently do, but starting with GW Bush and on down they made a clear effort to be bi partisan. The Democrats have made no such effort.

I think either party will cooperate only to the extent they think it politically neccessary, i.e., the party in power perceives that the public is in a bipartisan mood (whatever that means.) An exception would be personal matters, i.e., extending professional courtisies when a member of the other party is sick, etc..., like the Dem Senator from South? Dakota. I think you hit on a point - the Dems don't have to rely on Republican votes as much, at the moment.

343 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:26:37am

re: #306 Flyers1974

If snowball fight is consensual, not assault. If not consensual, it is indeed an assault.

/Should I turn myself in?/

344 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:26:55am

re: #329 Flyers1974
No, actually. In 2000-2006 when the R's had majorities in either one or both houses, the Republicans refused to go nuclear on the Dems and, head amusingly enough by Senator John McCain went out of their way to get bi-partisan support.
For Pelosi to refuse to even meet with the Republican House Minority Whip is nothing less than shameful.

345 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:28:02am

re: #338 quickjustice

We were working with Feinberg to get claims filed for families of the victims of 9/11. The trial lawyers threatened us for "competing" with them.

346 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:28:09am

re: #330 sattv4u2

SOME people might see the egg throwers (if this had happened in the U.S.) as being protected because they were exercising THEIR rights to freedom of expression.

So what? Rule of law, and all that

Hell, by that reasoning, SOME people might see bigamists as exercising THEIR rights of freedom of religion


Yeah, but they wouldn't have SCOTUS on their side.

347 Wishbone  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #333 poteen

If I should walk up to you in the street and, without warning, ram a thumb into your eyeball causing you immense pain and the inevitable loss of vision in that eye, would you consider that to be violence?

Indeed, should I reach the same outcome by merely throwing an egg, would you consider that to be a 'useless act by a silly person'?

348 lurking faith  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:29:48am

You know, the BNP does make me want to hurl, but not with my arm.

349 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:30:40am

re: #341 tradewind
I know - I posted that in the spin-off links quite a while ago!

350 callahan23  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:31:02am

re: #348 lurking faith

You know, the BNP does make me want to hurl, but not with my arm.

Excellent comment. DING!

351 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:32:18am

Well y'all it's been grand as usual but I gotta go now. Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

352 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:32:31am

re: #225 RoughRider

We sicced the cops on the New Black Panthers, and the Philly cops stopped the misconduct. The Obama Justice Department did let the extremists skate, however.

353 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:32:52am

re: #340 lurking faith

Identical? Are you kidding me? Bush 43 practically handed Teddy Kennedy a blank slate to scribble the No Child Left Behind legislation on.

Obama, by contrast, won't even look at ideas from the opposition; indeed, he does his best to pretend such ideas don't exist.

I thought No Child Left Behind was one of Bush's pet projects. I'm no expert on No Child, by any stretch, so maybe I'll learn something new here, but I recall No Child being very unpopular among both parties, and I don't recall even the Republicans blaming Kennedy for this. Again, I fully admit not paying close attention to No Child, so I'll check it out. But... are you saying that Bush looked at the Democrat's ideas out of fairness or niceness? That I find hard to believe.

354 callahan23  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:34:10am

re: #351 realwest

(Realwest) keep strong!
All the best - From deep within my heart.

355 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:35:57am

re: #343 poteen

/Should I turn myself in?/

I think you're ok, this time... statute of limitations. Unless you were throwing those snowballs last week...

/

356 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:38:34am

re: #347 Wishbone

If I should walk up to you in the street and, without warning, ram a thumb into your eyeball causing you immense pain and the inevitable loss of vision in that eye, would you consider that to be violence?

Indeed, should I reach the same outcome by merely throwing an egg, would you consider that to be a 'useless act by a silly person'?

"If " the sun goes cold we're all gonna die. I give up.
/ Whats the statute of limitations on battery./

357 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:44:54am

re: #344 realwest

No, actually. In 2000-2006 when the R's had majorities in either one or both houses, the Republicans refused to go nuclear on the Dems and, head amusingly enough by Senator John McCain went out of their way to get bi-partisan support.
For Pelosi to refuse to even meet with the Republican House Minority Whip is nothing less than shameful.

First, my bad for using term "identical" things are rarely truly "identical" as I should know. My main point is, isn't treatment of the minority party based on the political considerations in effect at the time? Why would the Republicans then (or Democrats now) include the other party when they don't have to, unless to make themselves look good politically? Do you mean to tell me that the Republicans sought the Democrats views out of a philosophical belief in minority (party) rights. Not trying to be stubborn here, I just assume each party will almost always act in its self-interest (to the extent that that party's self-interest is agreed upon by its members.)

358 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:47:06am

re: #185 MrSilverDragon

Battery is contact. It does not have to be "violent".

"Embellishment, embellishment!"

/wayne's world

359 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 10:47:30am

re: #355 Flyers1974

I think you're ok, this time... statute of limitations. Unless you were throwing those snowballs last week...

/

I live in So. Cal now. All I have are eggs.

/ Oh the humanity!

360 American Sabra  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 11:07:33am

The Daily Mail has more pictures.

Of course throwing eggs is a violent act. Who cares. He deserves it. They should follow him wherever he goes and make him feel as uncomfortable as possible in every public venue. Maybe if the Germans did that to Hitler, he wouldn't have tried to rule the world.

361 leereyno  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 11:56:16am

This kind of crap only helps the BNP.

362 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:07:27pm

I think that throwing shoes, pies, eggs, tomatoes, grenades, etc. is wrong. Even if I don't like the peltee.

The world is just insanely un-civilized nowadays.

363 Flyers1974  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:56:03pm

re: #362 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think that throwing shoes, pies, eggs, tomatoes, grenades, etc. is wrong. Even if I don't like the peltee.

The world is just insanely un-civilized nowadays.

I agree with everything except the nowadays part. The beliefs and acts that could get one burnt at the stake back in the old days - a pretty long list.

364 ihateronpaul  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:46:33pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

Rational argument works in a civil society, which Britain is. See, "There'll Always Be A..."

This isn't about appeasement, this is about preserving the law, and a law-abiding society.

oh I never said that I support the attack but I wouldn't condemn it either. Fascists need to be put in their place. And sure actions like this are childish but they force the public to go "why did someone do this?" and then if they do 3 minutes of googling they discover "oh, he has racist sympathies"

365 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:13:49pm

Fascism is one thing, but this egg throwing thuggery is something else altogether.//

366 Gus  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:22:19pm

BNP leader Nick Griffin with David Duke (KKK)

Youtube Video
367 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:22:55pm

Chucking eggs can be dangerous - there's a chance an innocent bystander could have got one in the eye - that's the extent of my concern. Foamy flans would have been a better way of delivering the message.

The only comments I've heard today here in the UK regarding this incident are of a "serves the bastards right" type. No one that I have heard is wringing their hands about the 'horrible abuse of the political process' here. The vast majority of people here detest the BNP and (myself included) do not believe that fascists suddenly deserve respect just because a bunch of morons elected them.

368 Gus  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:24:02pm

Nick Griffin at table with David Duke

369 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:26:39pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now if only they had actually turned out to vote for the opposition to keep him from getting elected in the first place.

You seem to assume that the people involved in this didn't vote. On what basis do you assume that?

370 Gus  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:39:01pm

As advertised by the racist cretins at Stormfront:

Over 171 Stormfronters Going To The
May 20-22 2005 European American Conference

Don Black (Florida)
Willis Carto (Virginia)
Elisabeth Carto (Virginia)
Ron Doggett (Virginia)
Nick Griffin (Britain)
Lady Michele Renouf (Britain)
Bob Whitaker of whitakeronline (South Carolina)
David_Pringle (Alaska)
JoAnn Pringle (Alaska)
Elisha Strom (Virginia)
Kevin Alfred Strom (Virginia)
Dr. Edward Fields (Georgia)
Jane Fields (Georgia)
David Duke (Louisiana)
Paul Fromm (Canada)
Marc Lemire (Canada)
Michael Collins Piper (Virginia)
Stan Hess (Idaho)
Elena Haskins (California)
James Kelso (Charles A Lindbergh, Louisiana)
Derek Black (Theodoric, Florida)
Loreleidkk (Texas/Canada)
Pedro Varela (Spain)
Vavra Suk (Sweden)
Kitti Molz (Virginia)
Eustace Mullins (Virginia)
Eyes_Open (Louisiana)

I added some links to the persons in attendance at this hate festival.

I find it hard to assume that Nick Griffin deserves any respect.

371 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:42:50pm

re: #369 Jimmah
From what several posters from the UK have said (primarily on the DT) the voter turnout was very low in this election (see, e.g. ymo o hyd #581). I don't see any reason to assume that Kragar was wrong, nor do I see any reason to question his statement after he has clearly left the thread some five hours ago.

372 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:45:12pm

re: #368 Gus 802
Hey Gus! Y'all must be in GB or at least Europe as you've now posted three times well after other posters have left this thread and you and Jimmah have been dinging each other up, long after others have left the thread as well.
What's up with that?

373 Gus  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:46:49pm

re: #372 realwest

Hey Gus! Y'all must be in GB or at least Europe as you've now posted three times well after other posters have left this thread and you and Jimmah have been dinging each other up, long after others have left the thread as well.
What's up with that?

Is coming into a thread "long after others have left the thread" something unusual? I've seen it done before. I think I dinged up Jimmah twice?

374 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:53:21pm

re: #373 Gus 802
Yes, actually it is - although in your case (comments #
366 and 368) it appears that you posted merely to prove to us that Griffin is a Neo-Nazi pos, not something I'd thought was in doubt at LGF. Still doesn't mean he deserved to be pelted with eggs; as I posted several times above the idea of Free Speech for Me but Not for Thee is not a doctrine I'd care to embrace.
I'll catch you on the later threads Gus.

375 Gus  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:00:00pm

re: #374 realwest

Yes, actually it is - although in your case (comments #
366 and 368) it appears that you posted merely to prove to us that Griffin is a Neo-Nazi pos, not something I'd thought was in doubt at LGF. Still doesn't mean he deserved to be pelted with eggs; as I posted several times above the idea of Free Speech for Me but Not for Thee is not a doctrine I'd care to embrace.
I'll catch you on the later threads Gus.

Actually, some of the threads have gone on for days. Especially the Roeder/Tiller threads. Nothing I am posting is going against the terms of services and it fits in with previous usage.

Not everyone that reads this is familiar with the topic of Nick Griffin. If I post repeated information it is as a service for outside readers. Nick Griffin can speak all he want as he has been and will soon be invited to Buckingham Palace.

376 poteen  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:16:00pm

To be clear, Griffin's free speech was infringed and he's free to seek redress. Vandalism and disturbing the peace could likely also be prosecuted. I just do not see any "violence"
Jefferson, Adams, Madison et.al argued, civilly and sometimes not, for the right of all to be free to do the same. Including Grffin and his opponents.

Washington won that right at the point of a bayonet. Not chuckin' eggs.

377 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:10:39pm

re: #371 realwest

From what several posters from the UK have said (primarily on the DT) the voter turnout was very low in this election (see, e.g. ymo o hyd #581). I don't see any reason to assume that Kragar was wrong, nor do I see any reason to question his statement after he has clearly left the thread some five hours ago.

Voter turnout was low, yes. As a general criticism of the UK electorate, that's a fair point. However, that doesn't mean we can assume that the people involved in the protest didn't vote. People who don't vote are apathetic. Whatever else you may say about them, these people did not appear to be suffering from apathy! That is why the comment seems unfair.

But hey - despite it's lack of logic I guess I have to let his comment stand unchallenged as he 'clearly left the thread five hours ago'. Nevermind that people can always return to a thread, (he could be reading this right now) or the fact that people respond to older comments on threads all the time. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone wagging a disapproving finger at another poster on the basis that the poster hasn't posted on the thread for a few hours. Bizarre! Really effing bizarre!

378 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:13:48pm

re: #372 realwest

Hey Gus! Y'all must be in GB or at least Europe as you've now posted three times well after other posters have left this thread and you and Jimmah have been dinging each other up, long after others have left the thread as well.
What's up with that?

More bizarrity. Posters who agree with each others comments give each other updings. Then you come along and pick out two people who are doing this whom you happen to disagree with and talk about it like it's some kind of underhand, unheard of practice. Amazing. What's next?

379 realwest  Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:35:11pm

"Amazing. What's next?" Oh I don't know, maybe you're posting to a commenter within say, an hour and a half or so - especially when you are asking a question of that commenter.Gus 802 was merely making factual posts about Nick Griffin, when I thought no one would ever get around to reading them and that there was no one out here who would disagree that Nick Griffin is a nasy mofo. And I didn't say it was underhanded or whatever, I was puzzled as to why you would post on a thread which had been DEAD for hours and ask a question of someone who, had you clicked his avatar, you could have seen was no longer logged in.
That just didn't seem like you - you usually present questions or disagreements with someone (usually good questions and intelligent disagreements, btw) who is around at the time.
I didn't think it was underhanded, just found it kinda curious, that's all.

380 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:28:31am

re: #379 realwest

I assure you realwest, these things happen all the time on LGF and no-one bats an eye. The thread was not dead, it was quite near the top of the page, people were still posting on it. I had just logged in, I'm reading this stuff and my reactions to it are fresh, so I post/ding as appropriate. There's nothing curious about it.

You're ok, realwest, but sometimes you say the darndest things.

381 dpolwarth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 4:37:37am

Okay, just to let you guys know I'm from the UK and I have some sympathy for Nick Griffen.

I'm not a racist. I'm not a Nazi (or an anti-Semite). I'm not a fascist.

So why do I support them?

Simply put, we are not allowed to have a debate in this country about immigration. As you've recently seen, your radio jockey Savage has been banned, and I suspect many people such as Ann Coulter would not be allowed into the country either. The debate is simply not allowed amongst the mainstream parties, and the press, while slightly bolder, are impotent to bring about an honest debate.

The only organisation that takes immigration seriously in the UK is something called 'Immigration Watch' which is excellent but does not field candidates, simply being a think tank.

So when people in a recession are losing work to immigrants, who speaks for us? There is no moderate party to represent the views of white workers. Because we are not a minority, we don't get lottery funding or affirmative action posts. We don't get advocacy groups or Amnesty International backing us (which is run by an Asian lady in the UK.) In short, we don't have a voice.

Am I happy to vote for Nick Griffen? Well, to be honest, everything he says about immigration seems common sense. He wants illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers to return home. But that is actually Labour Party policy, too - hardly controversial. He is also prepared to offer money to immigrants to return home - but this already exists in law. Its' an old Labour Party policy.

Jews are welcome to join the BNP. There are some in senior positions, apparently. Blacks are not allowed join. I accept this is controversial, and I'm not sure I agree with this policy. But at the end of the day, there are plenty of black organisations that white people aren't allowed to join. I doubt there are many white people on the 'Black Police Officer's' group in the UK. Why is that not racist?

I do accept that the BNP have a shady past, springing from the genuinely odious National Front. But they don't appear to me to be violent or even racist. They have gone on record to say that blacks and Asians are welcome to stay in the UK if they contribute. It's hard to argue with that.

If you can point to any policy of the BNP that is fascist or more racist than Jesse Jackson then I will be glad to change my views. But right now I hear a lot of name calling but not a lot of debate.

Seriously, I don't want to support fascists, but I haven't been convinced that the BNP is. Putting aside their past, do you have any policies you can point to that would be considered controversial?

382 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 5:35:08am

re: #381 dpolwarth

Watch this video, in which Griffin makes it absolutely clear that the recent toning down of the racist rhetoric is a strategy of deception to gain political legitimacy while in fact retaining the same unreconstructed racist views and making the same racist plans as ever:

Youtube Video

Then come back and see if you still feel like trying to sell the shit you just posted.

383 dpolwarth  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 3:13:30pm

re 382 Jimmah

Let's leave the insults out of this. I posted in good faith.

I can't see the youtube video on my machine (it might have something to do with the new controls against UK video at the moment on Youtube, or it could be because I'm using Linux.) But I'll take your word for it that Griffen may be a closet racist. It quite plausible, and I won't argue the point. I would hope he isn't, but let's say he is.

I'm not trying to 'sell shit.' I'm really open to having my mind changed. I'm just looking at the policies on the BNP website, and whether you like it or not, some of the immigration controls make sense. They are the only UK political party making those policy proposals, too. You say they have an agenda, which may be true. I'm quite sure some of the people in the BNP are very dubious. But a moratorium on immigration, sending home failed asylum seekers, and other controls against immigrants makes sense to me.

Did you know that almost all immigrants going to the UK settle in England? Not Scotland or Ireland or Wales. Plus, those that do move to either the South East or up North. All of them concentrated in a few towns and London, putting massive pressure on those towns. That's not easy for people to deal with. Remember, the UK is not some kind of 'melting pot of immigrants' like America. This is our home, our only one. And America hasn't had 'homegrown' Muslim bombers, either, which tends to change your view on things.

So this leaves the people of the UK in a difficult position. The only people who are offering immigration control are the BNP. The only people seriously addressing immigration control are the BNP, because anyone in the main parties who dare to comment is accused of racism. The only choice we have is to either vote BNP to make sure the politicians understand how important the issue is to us and be accused of fascism, or we do nothing and keep the status quo. And I should point out that the status quo is not working for us.

What would you do in my position? Seriously. I'm dead serious. Who would you vote for? Are you comfortable with the idea that the entire debate is being suppressed in England and only radicals (however dumb) are the only people willing to speak up?

While its fair to attack the BNP, it doesn't solve the problem that white working classes in the UK have with illegal immigrants undercutting jobs while the politicos turn a blind eye. We have no voice. No Ann Coulter. No bold Republicans willing to rock the boat. We have no representation except for the 'extremists.'

So yes, you can tell me I'm peddling shit. Maybe that makes you feel warm and fuzzy and good about yourself. But don't then rattle on about the UK turning into a Muslim state in the next breath, a meme that turns up all the time on Little Green Footballs. You can't have it both ways.

384 Ayeless in Ghazi  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 10:27:58pm

re: #383 dpolwarth

Peddling shit is exactly what you are doing. You don't care if the BNP are racists. You needn't bother watching that video - all it's going to tell you is that they are racists, and you have already told us that for you this is not a deal breaker:


Blacks are not allowed join. I accept this is controversial, and I'm not sure I agree with this policy.

And don't bother trying to distort the picture of life/politics in the UK to justify this crap either:

Did you know that almost all immigrants going to the UK settle in England? Not Scotland or Ireland or Wales.

Rubbish. There are plenty of immigrants in the rest of the UK. It just so happens that the vast majority of UK residents are in England - 10 times as many as there are in Scotland, for example. In that context there is nothing to justify this 'poor little England' whining of yours.

The only people who are offering immigration control are the BNP.

Guess what? I am a UK resident - so don't bother trying to kid me. I know that the BNP are not the only party that takes a tough stance on immigration, if that is your concern. UKIP, for example, take a tough line on immigration, and are a more viable proposition, yet you choose to support the racist BNP. Maybe it makes you feel better to pretend to yourself that you have been 'forced' into giving them your support, but don't expect to fool anyone else here.

385 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:04:42pm
386 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 10, 2009 11:14:23pm

Good grief. I had no idea we had a BNP propagandist in this thread.

Not any more, though. This crap is absolutely not welcome at LGF.

387 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jun 11, 2009 6:39:20am

re: #386 Charles

Yes - BNP progandist is exactly what he was. 'I'm an ordinary Brit, a typical UK voter...'

Good riddance.


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Views: 371 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1