Alas, this industrialized twelve-tone horse, dull on the outside and empty inside, constantly being perfected and dragged to a new Troy in shadow of an ideological war long since fought and won by responsible minds like Schoenberg, with neither systems nor scholarship for armor!
— Luciano Berio
3 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:23:30pm |
Where has this beautiful Trojan horse been?
I've waited so long!
| 4 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:24:04pm |
re: #2 Chicken Kiev
So, welcome, to the late night!
Why are you up so late, if I may ask?
| 5 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:24:11pm |
re: #1 thelongblogger
Huh?
Hah! You said it for me. Would love to read the context because I'm a big fan of elegant sentences!
| 7 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:24:59pm |
| 8 |
Chicken Kiev Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:25:32pm |
Why am I up this late? You can't even imagine. Someone has kept me on the phone for two hours and won't hang up. They are still talking right now, even as I write.
| 9 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:26:16pm |
re: #8 Chicken Kiev
Can you help them, besides "listening"?
| 10 |
NY Nana Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:27:13pm |
G'nite, Lizards, sweet dreams!
I am really, truly, honestly going to sleep in a few minutes.
I mean it! (At least I think I do!)
Can't see straight, so help me.
Have fun!
| 11 |
Chicken Kiev Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:27:20pm |
I don't actually know about the twelve-tone horse. It does sound multichromatic, though. Which is odd in a horse.
| 12 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:27:28pm |
Why am I never as tired when I should be going to bed, as I am when I have to wake up?
| 13 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:29:14pm |
re: #12 JohnAdams
Because you're on LGF, and it's so stimulating?
| 14 |
Chicken Kiev Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:29:37pm |
9 Floral Gaffe
Can you help them, besides "listening"?
The person on the phone has a personality disorder that entails lots of talking -- basically cannot stop. I knew this would happen when I called, but had no choice. I needed to ask a favor, but the favor will not be granted and this person won't get off the phone. I am talking -- saying a word now and then -- but this person is on a talking jag about every subject. I don't want to be rude and abrupt. But....
| 15 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:29:42pm |
Who is Luciano Berio, and why am I awake at 2:30 trying to decipher his quote out of context? I think the Grand Lizard is having a little fun.
| 16 |
Yitzchak Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:30:32pm |
The quote is about serial music. I used to have a few records of Schoenberg music. The 12-tone stuff probably won't ever become your favorite music, but if you have adventurous tastes in music, it might expand your horizons a bit.
| 17 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:30:56pm |
re: #14 Chicken Kiev
Oh, just get it over with. 2 hours is penance enough. If you think the favor will be granted.
GOOD LUCK!
| 18 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:31:42pm |
re: #13 Floral Giraffe
Because you're on LGF, and it's so stimulating?
I believe a shrink, if I could afford one, would tell me I fear death.
Well, no shit.
| 19 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:32:16pm |
re: #16 Yitzchak
YUCK! I am way not a Schonberg music fan. Had to listen to a bunch of it in school. Tonal is NOT my thing!
| 20 |
thelongblogger Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:33:23pm |
re: #15 JohnAdams
Well, Luciano Berio was (recent died) an experimental symphonic composer. Which explains why he is talking about Schoenberg.
It doesn't explain his analogy between the 12 tone system and a horse.
| 21 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:33:57pm |
re: #18 JohnAdams
Staying in a warm, cozy bed is more fun than leaving. Sleeping in, and snoozing once awake, is a great personal indulgence.
I LIKE it.
| 22 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:35:05pm |
re: #16 Yitzchak
The quote is about serial music. I used to have a few records of Schoenberg music. The 12-tone stuff probably won't ever become your favorite music, but if you have adventurous tastes in music, it might expand your horizons a bit.
What little I know about atonal music strikes me as an attempt to make people who rightly dislike it to feel stupid.
| 23 |
thelongblogger Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:37:38pm |
re: #22 JohnAdams
What little I know about atonal music strikes me as an attempt to make people who rightly dislike it to feel stupid.
I'm not sure that's the goal, but it certrainly does have that effect.
| 24 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:38:16pm |
re: #21 Floral Giraffe
Staying in a warm, cozy bed is more fun than leaving. Sleeping in, and snoozing once awake, is a great personal indulgence.
I LIKE it.
I like to set my clock radio to a classical station and have it go off about an hour before I actually have to rise. The dreams in that sixty minutes are spectacular. A kind of half-conscious mind-trip guided by the most brilliant musicians in history. Full-color.
| 25 |
TheMatrix31 Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:39:21pm |
Bah, have my last final tomorrow and then I'm done until summer session starts!
Filling out the study guide is annoying, but at least I know what's coming!
| 26 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:40:36pm |
re: #23 thelongblogger
I'm not sure that's the goal, but it certrainly does have that effect.
Kinda like the current administration's economic policy.
| 27 |
Yitzchak Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:41:29pm |
It doesn't explain his analogy between the 12 tone system and a horse.
A trojan horse, and he explains "dull on the outside and empty inside," meaning, I guess, dull to listen to and not stemming from any genuine creative impulse. "Dragging it to a new Troy" would be a new attempt to promote 12-tone theory, I suppose. I don't understand the bit about not having "systems or scholarship for armor." I thought the big complaint about 12-tone music is that it is all "system and scholarship" and no genuine expression of musical meaning.
| 28 |
thelongblogger Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:47:08pm |
re: #27 Yitzchak
It doesn't explain his analogy between the 12 tone system and a horse.
A trojan horse, and he explains "dull on the outside and empty inside," meaning, I guess, dull to listen to and not stemming from any genuine creative impulse. "Dragging it to a new Troy" would be a new attempt to promote 12-tone theory, I suppose. I don't understand the bit about not having "systems or scholarship for armor." I thought the big complaint about 12-tone music is that it is all "system and scholarship" and no genuine expression of musical meaning.
I think maybe "industialized" is a mis-translation for "mass produced" or "mechanized", refering to the fact that Schoenberg had a system for creating 12 tone music from a sort of algorithm - once you knew the system, anyone could churn out an infinite series of 12 tone "symphonies" just as well as Schoenberg.
| 29 |
Chicken Kiev Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:48:15pm |
OK, I'm off the phone now. The favor I was asking the person was for the sake of a relative. I am locked into a web of other people's mental-health issues. But the hour is late (for me), and there is an inexperienced, dangerous narcissist in the White House, so I must rest.
| 30 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:49:30pm |
re: #27 Yitzchak
It doesn't explain his analogy between the 12 tone system and a horse.
A trojan horse, and he explains "dull on the outside and empty inside," meaning, I guess, dull to listen to and not stemming from any genuine creative impulse. "Dragging it to a new Troy" would be a new attempt to promote 12-tone theory, I suppose. I don't understand the bit about not having "systems or scholarship for armor." I thought the big complaint about 12-tone music is that it is all "system and scholarship" and no genuine expression of musical meaning.
Yes, it's not just counter-intuitive, it's counter-emotive. It's pretty sinister. When somebody tells you you should believe something that you think is not true, that is bad; when they tell you to feel something you don't feel, that is evil.
| 31 |
thelongblogger Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:50:28pm |
And the last phrase may be meant to suggest that the 12 tone system is a substitute for system and/or scholarship.
| 32 |
Yitzchak Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:52:56pm |
once you knew the system, anyone could churn out an infinite series of 12 tone "symphonies" just as well as Schoenberg
That's a good guess about "industrialized," but about "the system," why are the infinite churner outers described as having "no system"? Maybe they don't have Shoenberg's larger intellectual system although they do have the 12-tone method as a bare procedure?
| 33 |
thelongblogger Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:53:36pm |
But I can make no sense out of the "in the shadow" bit, and what is the significance of describing Schoenberg's mind as "responsible?"
| 34 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:53:50pm |
re: #29 Chicken Kiev
Best wishes. Sleep tight!
| 35 |
JohnAdams Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:54:28pm |
re: #31 thelongblogger
And the last phrase may be meant to suggest that the 12 tone system is a substitute for system and/or scholarship.
Could I just program a computer to randomly pull 100,000 words out of a dictionary and call it a novel, much less a "good" novel? Composing is choosing. Enjoying a composition is emotionally approving of the composition.
| 36 |
thelongblogger Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:56:54pm |
re: #32 Yitzchak
once you knew the system, anyone could churn out an infinite series of 12 tone "symphonies" just as well as Schoenberg
That's a good guess about "industrialized," but about "the system," why are the infinite churner outers described as having "no system"? Maybe they don't have Shoenberg's larger intellectual system although they do have the 12-tone method as a bare procedure?
As I said in #31, this must mean that the old fashioned form of musical composition is the "system" (which requires scholarship) and Schoenberg is using the 12 tone scale because he doesn't have that system.
| 37 |
Yitzchak Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:57:05pm |
what is the significance of describing Schoenberg's mind as "responsible?"
I think of him as very earnest and serious.
| 38 |
Clemente Mon, Jun 8, 2009 11:57:59pm |
Looked it up just now, "dodecaphony," read a dozen or so paragraphs, Wiki and whatnot, and thought, "This must sound like a cat on a piano, trying to get a mouse out of a violin."
Found a couple example pieces. I think I was right.
| 39 |
gmsc Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:00:01am |
Today in History, June 9th:
Highlights of this day in history: Sen. Joseph McCarthy confronted over his anti-communist tactics; Author Charles Dickens dies; Comedian Richard Pryor suffers burns; Secretariat wins Triple Crown; Electric guitar pioneer Les Paul born.
53 – Roman Emperor Nero marries Claudia Octavia
62 – Claudia Octavia commits suicide
68 – Roman Emperor Nero commits suicide, imploring his secretary Epaphroditos to slit his throat to evade a Senate-imposed death by flogging.
1915 – William Jennings Bryan resigns as Woodrow Wilson's Secretary of State over a disagreement regarding the United States' handling of the sinking of the RMS Lusitania.
1959 – The USS George Washington is launched. It is the first submarine to carry ballistic missiles.
1978 – The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints opens its priesthood to "all worthy men", ending a 148-year-old policy excluding black men.
| 40 |
thelongblogger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:00:25am |
If you prefer - the word "with" in the last phrase seems to mean "who has".
I still can't figure out what's responsible about it...
| 41 |
JohnAdams Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:01:32am |
re: #38 Clemente
Looked it up just now, "dodecaphony," read a dozen or so paragraphs, Wiki and whatnot, and thought, "This must sound like a cat on a piano, trying to get a mouse out of a violin."
Found a couple example pieces. I think I was right.
If you weren't so stupid you'd realize how beautiful that crap sounds ;~)
| 42 |
Yitzchak Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:02:45am |
the old fashioned form of musical composition is the "system" (which requires scholarship)
You could be right. However, Mozart's composition was "scholarship"? Doesn't that ruin it? The music didn't come straight out of his heart?
| 43 |
thelongblogger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:04:11am |
re: #38 Clemente
Very well expressed. Much better than L. Berio.
And now I must go to bed. I'll read the rest of this thread in the morning.
At least the Berio analysis part of it.
| 44 |
Clemente Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:05:14am |
re: #41 JohnAdams
If you weren't so stupid you'd realize how beautiful that crap sounds ;~)
;)
And as far as its relationship to a horse - I prefer them both well downwind of me.
| 45 |
JohnAdams Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:05:43am |
re: #42 Yitzchak
the old fashioned form of musical composition is the "system" (which requires scholarship)
You could be right. However, Mozart's composition was "scholarship"? Doesn't that ruin it? The music didn't come straight out of his heart?
Beautiful music is beautiful the same way a child's laughter is beautiful, or the way a flower is beautiful. Mozart didn't play the music--the music played him. Artists are just conduits.
| 46 |
Yitzchak Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:06:41am |
what is the significance of describing Schoenberg's mind as "responsible?"
To attempt a longer answer, "responsible," connotes something serious and stodgy, like an earnest music theorist trying to make musical progress but ultimately creating something sterile.
| 51 |
JohnAdams Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:11:17am |
For instance, how do you re-create rhythm? Rhythm is rhythm. Every atom in the universe vibrates distinctively and predictably. People from myriad cultures across time have tapped into it and danced in varied ways, but always guided by it.
| 54 |
JohnAdams Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:14:15am |
I see my mother's face in the full moon in my window and she is telling me to get my ass to bed. Good night and I leave you all to dissect Schoenberg.
| 55 |
Clemente Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:18:21am |
However, this does seem like a metaphor for correct post-American liberalism; all notes are welcome, off-key because there is no key, the very notion of key is tonist oppression, an imperialist anachronism wielded by ignorant bigoted note-segregationists.
Give me a tune I can teach a child to whistle, any day.
| 56 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:20:42am |
re: #55 Clemente
However, this does seem like a metaphor for correct post-American liberalism; all notes are welcome, off-key because there is no key, the very notion of key is tonist oppression, an imperialist anachronism wielded by ignorant bigoted note-segregationists.
Give me a tune I can teach a child to whistle, any day.
start with "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" or "Garry Owen"....... %-)
| 57 |
Clemente Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:24:27am |
| 58 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:33:26am |
re: #57 Clemente
Thanks for reminding me, gotta go look in on that cat...
Uh - oh.
see what you've done?
| 60 |
Clemente Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:38:03am |
| 61 |
pat Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:38:24am |
Austrians came to like Schoenberg a little late, eh?
| 62 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:39:55am |
| 63 |
gmsc Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:43:01am |
re: #62 BatGuano
It was both a zombie and not a zombie! Guyyyy!
Were they simultaneously back to back and belly to belly?
| 64 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:44:24am |
re: #63 gmsc
Were they simultaneously back to back and belly to belly?
I don't give a damn because I'm dead already.
| 65 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:50:16am |
re: #64 BatGuano
I don't give a damn because I'm dead already.
no matter where you go, there you are.
| 66 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:52:58am |
re: #65 redc1c4
no matter where you go, there you are.
That is like so true. especially when you're traveling.
| 68 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:56:47am |
re: #66 BatGuano
That is like so true. especially when you're traveling.
which is why you should always expect the unexpected.
| 69 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 12:58:43am |
re: #66 BatGuano
That is like so true. especially when you're traveling.
If it's Tuesday, this must be Belguim LGF.
| 70 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:00:48am |
re: #69 Fenway_Nation
If it's Tuesday, this must be
BelguimLGF.
Wasn't that a Bob hope movie? Sounds familiar.
| 71 |
gmsc Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:00:59am |
I'm over at another thread, reading a rather amusing thread called "The Truth".
Now, one heavily Christian poster is getting chastized (and quite properly, from the way I'm reading the thread) about her religion being the "one true way", and any deviation from it is immoral.
Someone posted a link to this Keith Olbermann video, and she commented something like "Why is this in 'The Truth' thread? He doesn't know the meaning of the word."
Now, they're all criticizing her, and it's somewhat funny to watch them defend Keith Olbermann as their "one true way" as adamantly as she did hers. They don't even seem to realize they're arguing with the same attitude and conviction she did, and only the topic is different.
| 72 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:03:05am |
re: #71 gmsc
c'mon... don't leave us hangin', link to the "thread"!
| 73 |
ArchangelMichael Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:05:10am |
| 74 |
gmsc Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:05:33am |
re: #72 freetoken
c'mon... don't leave us hangin', link to the "thread"!
Unfortuantely, I can't. It's on one of those boards that you can only access if you sign up and have a certain number of posts to access the section.
| 75 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:06:52am |
re: #71 gmsc
Under no circumstances could I defend Olbermann, unless he inadvertently told the truth.
| 76 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:10:31am |
re: #75 BatGuano
Is there a Merriam-Websters entry for Blowhard Quisling Shitstain? If not, then what am I going to do with this glossy 8 X 10 of him that's sitting around?
Use it as the template image for the Keith Olbermann Memorial Urinal Cakes and 1-ply toilet paper?
| 77 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:15:16am |
re: #76 Fenway_Nation
Is there a Merriam-Websters entry for Blowhard Quisling Shitstain? If not, then what am I going to do with this glossy 8 X 10 of him that's sitting around?
Use it as the template image for the Keith Olbermann Memorial Urinal Cakes and 1-ply toilet paper?
You have a glossy 8X10 of him? You're on the right track. I hope it is not personalized.
| 78 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:19:06am |
re: #77 BatGuano
Nah....just messin' with ya.
I would say I keep one around to scare off the vermin and roaches, but I think they'd actually be attracted to the image.
| 79 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:24:56am |
Looks like it's just you and me for now, Guano.
Want me to post some more random Railway pictures?
| 80 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:26:40am |
re: #78 Fenway_Nation
Nah....just messin' with ya.
I would say I keep one around to scare off the vermin and roaches, but I think they'd actually be attracted to the image.
Reminds me of a response to a book review I read 30 something years ago.
An author read a scathing review of his book and responded:
I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. You're review is in front of me. Soon it will be behind me.
| 81 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:27:49am |
re: #79 Fenway_Nation
Looks like it's just you and me for now, Guano.
Want me to post some more random Railway pictures?
Hell. yeah. I love that!
| 82 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:33:33am |
re: #81 BatGuano
OK....lemmee see if I can rustle up some oldies-but-goodies still in revenue service.
| 83 |
gmsc Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:34:52am |
I'm too tired. I'm not going to make it to fruitcup.
Good night, all!
| 86 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:36:54am |
| 87 |
BatGuano Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:38:24am |
re: #69 Fenway_Nation
If it's Tuesday, this must be
BelguimLGF.
I looked it up. Bob hope was not in it.
| 88 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:42:03am |
re: #40 thelongblogger
If you prefer - the word "with" in the last phrase seems to mean "who has".
I still can't figure out what's responsible about it...
The subject of the sentence is "horse". The horse has neither systems nor scholarship, according to Berio.
| 89 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:44:13am |
Here we go...an unmodified GP9 in the snow.
| 91 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:47:54am |
re: #90 BatGuano
G'nite, Guano of the flying mammalian persuasion!
| 92 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:48:23am |
| 93 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:49:07am |
I have studied extensively the works of Schoenberg and the opinions of Berio over a period encompassing the last ten minutes, and can tell you that the quote above is more about Berio than about Schoenberg.
| 94 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:53:08am |
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
My internet connection is skipping again. :-(
| 95 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:55:15am |
Dream (nightmare) material............
if it wasn't so scary and true, these clowns could be Loony-Tunes characters.
Sweet dreams.........
| 96 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:58:54am |
Wonder how Twins Falls, ID; Kansas City, KS or Austin, TX rate as places to live....
| 97 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 1:58:56am |
Schoenberg developed the twelve-tone technique, among others, and conducted the artist's version of science. He sought to explore the idea, share the results, and increase participation in the experiment, yet keep the work free from corruption.
Many others have developed derivative works, either building on his foundations or branching while acknowledging (indeed claiming) Schoenberg's work as an origin.
Berio feels that Schoenberg both started and finished the project, and that no additions are welcome or worthy. He feels that what once an idea, and art, has degenerated into the artist's version of fuzzy soft science, with baseless axioms, and poorly-constructed arguments yielding faulty conclusions. At a minimum, he feels that over-systematization of twelve-tone music has resulted in empty-headed musicians arguing pointlessly over different sets of equally unsupportable rules.
He likens the process--of formalizing twelve-tone music into the "twelve-tone system--to Fascism and racism, which seems a bit wrought for music that most people don't care for anyway.
| 100 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:00:10am |
Good morning, afternoon, evening *everyone*!™
Fruitcup is on the buffet ---------------------->
Help yourselves!
| 101 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:00:50am |
*bringing blueprints for Fruitcupitron 3000 out of the vault*
| 102 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:01:54am |
Whew! Now if I disappear it's not such a big deal...
| 104 |
theheat Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:02:58am |
re: #100 littleoldlady
Just in time. Fruitcup and grapefruit juice. yumm.
| 105 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:03:27am |
| 110 |
theheat Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:05:34am |
Morning, all. I thought of Fenway today because I scored a (not very) rusty old wringer washing machine circa 1946. More of that rusty old retro stuff. Not a train, but it does have a motor...
| 114 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:08:06am |
re: #100 littleoldlady
Fruitcup is on the buffet ---------------------->
/technically, those are cups and there is fruit...
| 118 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:12:00am |
re: #117 Fenway_Nation
What? People watch the movie and think of you?
/is that a bad thing?
//if so, I'll stop...
| 119 |
IslandLibertarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:12:39am |
and to go with those fruit cups............
g'nite late nighters........
| 120 |
theheat Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:13:50am |
re: #119 IslandLibertarian
What a nice parting shot. Goodnight.
| 121 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:14:33am |
Almost done, got my last one tomorrow (later today)!
Prof. laid it out real nice and easy for us, I'm just compiling all the info at the moment.
| 122 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:15:14am |
re: #119 IslandLibertarian
IslandLibertarian! :-)
Except for those blue and green cakes with triangle things stabbing them...that looks GREAT! Thanks!
| 123 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:16:37am |
re: #118 littleoldlady
I wasn't as enamored with it as most people thought I'd be. Finding out that it was actually based on a British romantic comedy with the same name didn't help much. Neither did finding out that the script originally called for the Red Sox to lose.
/Hurray for real-world events saying "Fuck that shit!"
| 124 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:19:01am |
re: #123 Fenway_Nation
Oh, that's why the ending looked tacked on.
/I said it was cute - I didn't say it was great. ;-)
| 129 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:26:53am |
Good mornin' lizards!
Thanks for the fruitcup lol.
| 131 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:34:56am |
Argh, one of the questions I have to study for tomorrow is
4. Compare nineteenth-century Islamic movements with contemporary Islamic movements. Why did each set of movements arise? What do they have in common? How are they different?
Bleh.
| 132 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:36:22am |
In other movie news, keep an eye out for Public Enemies starrting Johnny Depp and Christian Bale Milwaukee Road #261.
Something Wicked, starring Albany & Eastern #1750 won't be out in theaters until 2010.
| 133 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:36:35am |
re: #131 TheMatrix31
The answer depends on the meaning of "movement".
| 134 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:39:03am |
re: #131 TheMatrix31
No AK47's, TATP or jihadi websites to post snuff films back in the 19th century?
| 135 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:39:28am |
re: #133 UncleRancher
The answer depends on the meaning of "movement".
I'm tempted to write something pretty bad (in jest, of course) but I don't feel like getting expelled from school or banned from LGF, hahah.
| 136 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:39:55am |
re: #134 Fenway_Nation
No AK47's, TATP or jihadi websites to post snuff films back in the 19th century?
Pretty much, lol.
| 137 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:40:45am |
Mornin' folks, I brought fresh coffee, is there any fruitcup left?
| 139 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:43:29am |
| 141 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:44:02am |
re: #138 rightside
Here ya go = )
Cup of coffee
| 142 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:44:02am |
re: #137 srb1976
Mornin' folks, I brought fresh coffee, is there any fruitcup left?
The best....part....of wakin' up...is fruitcup in your cup!
| 143 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:44:57am |
re: #139 littleoldlady
srb1976! :-)
What flavor...?
Just coffee flavor.....(I like to add my own stuff rather than have it built it)
| 144 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:45:45am |
re: #143 srb1976
Just coffee flavor.....(I like to add my own stuff rather than have it built it)
err...or built IN (obviously not enough coffee yet)
| 145 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:45:46am |
Shar, I found another article you might be interested in. I wrote it up a little in this post.
| 146 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:48:02am |
re: #142 TheMatrix31
My fruitcup has nothing but thumbtacks and a post-it note with 'JUST DIE ALREADY' hastily scribbled on it.
/This is what happens when we outsource fruitcup distribution to MSNBC!
| 147 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:50:44am |
Thinking about taking The Little Man to see Up on Monday....anyone seen it yet? Look like something a 4 1/2 yr ols would like?
| 148 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:50:45am |
I'll take mine with Sambuca and Kahlua...
| 149 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:51:52am |
re: #148 littleoldlady
I'll take mine with Sambuca and Kahlua...
Yum! I'm a fan of bailey's myself, but neither is good for before work coffee......drat!
| 151 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:54:09am |
| 154 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:54:40am |
re: #146 Fenway_Nation
My fruitcup has nothing but thumbtacks and a post-it note with 'JUST DIE ALREADY' hastily scribbled on it.
/This is what happens when we outsource fruitcup distribution to MSNBC!
Damn, that's some serious shit!
| 155 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:55:58am |
re: #151 littleoldlady
Sure it's good before work!
/although it may not be so good FOR work ;-)
I'm sure it's good anytime, but my bosses, they frown on drinking before work....they're silly like that.....(no booze before hanging out in a shop full of molten metal)
| 157 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:57:38am |
Canada Geese - I cull you!
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 159 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:59:20am |
| 160 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jun 9, 2009 2:59:20am |
| 161 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:00:52am |
re: #159 littleoldlady
Really stifles innovation and creativity, doesn't it?
;-)
Something like that = )
(I love my job...really.....just sometimes I don't wanna go )
| 162 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:03:32am |
Saturday I did everything I could to make it rain. Watered the garden, washed the truck, sprayed the weeds. And it worked! Now it won't stop. How do you make it stop raining?
| 163 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:04:22am |
re: #162 UncleRancher
Saturday I did everything I could to make it rain. Watered the garden, washed the truck, sprayed the weeds. And it worked! Now it won't stop. How do you make it stop raining?
Carrying an umbrella usually works for me.
| 164 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:05:33am |
re: #163 Spare O'Lake
Carrying an umbrella usually works for me.
I'll have to go buy one for emergencies like this.
| 165 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:10:00am |
re: #162 UncleRancher
Saturday I did everything I could to make it rain. Watered the garden, washed the truck, sprayed the weeds. And it worked! Now it won't stop. How do you make it stop raining?
Generally, if I promise to let the kids play in the rain, it stops.....
| 166 |
srb1976 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:22:10am |
Ok folks, since I seem to have killed the thread, I guess it's off to the salt mines with me = )
Later all, have a great day!
| 167 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:23:05am |
Thanks for the coffee, srb, and have a great day! :-)
| 168 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:28:07am |
Double dead! :-(
Oh well...I guess I'd better get going myself.
Good day, ALL!™
| 169 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:29:45am |
Ok then I guess I'll have to turn in too. Mess of chores tomorrow slopping around in all that mud.
| 170 |
Danny Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:31:00am |
Twelve spinoff links for a twelve-tone blog entry none are about music? Oh, the irony.
| 171 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:43:07am |
re: #170 Danny
Twelve spinoff links for a twelve-tone blog entry none are about music? Oh, the irony.
"Twelve-tone" is music? Could have fooled me...
/
| 172 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 3:49:01am |
re: #170 Danny
Twelve spinoff links for a twelve-tone blog entry none are about music? Oh, the irony.
Well said!
| 173 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:11:49am |
Good morning.
The market futures are pointing down in reaction to the inflation.
Looking down the road, when the general public starts getting angry about rising prices and it's reflected on the pools such that Obama cares, I figure his next move will be wage a price controls across the board.
Wage and price controls do not work.
Just imagine New York rent controls on a country wide basis.
| 174 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:15:59am |
Yesterday, the President said that his administration has saved or created 150,000.
I challenge anybody out there to show documentation to prove that number.
It's not out there, cause there is no way to measure "saved" jobs.
In other words, Obama made the number up out of thin air.
And the MSM continues to worship at his feet, and repeats the claim over and over.
| 175 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:19:15am |
re: #174 3 wood
Mornin' Wood!
What numbers have you heard them use lately that did not come out of thin air.
| 176 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:21:31am |
It's sad how many in the drive by media will not question the one. Claims of creating new jobs go unchallenged, along with everything else that comes along. With the possible exception of Jake Tapper, the other sycophants simply regurgitate what he says as the gospel according to barry.
The relentless excoriation of Bush, contrasted with the cult-like worship of obama, finally ends the "media bias" debate. Despite their declining viewership, I still believe they hold sway over their audience, and can affect the outcome of elections.
Just another piece of the puzzle to overcome, to stop the leftward lurch of the US, so we can then begin to bring fiscal discipline back to our country.
When asked what have you wrought, Ben Franklin replied, "A republic... if you can keep it"
| 177 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:22:17am |
re: #174 3 wood
effortlessly dovetailing with your comment, my #176
| 178 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:22:54am |
In my #174, that should read "saved or created 150,000 jobs".
By Obama's logic, he might as well claim saving 14 million jobs, that number has as much basis in fact as any other.
| 179 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:26:36am |
re: #176 rightside
It's sad how many in the drive by media will not question the one.
Did you see the clip of Evan Thomas of Newsweek equating Obama with God?
That should blow the minds of left wing atheists.
The MSM are openly admitting their worship of Obama. They're like a 16 year old school girl with a crush.
| 180 |
Dar ul Harbarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:27:58am |
A stiff pose and a fidgit is worth a thousand words.
| 181 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:30:06am |
Boston Globe union taking a gamble:
Boston Globe Union Rejects Deal on Pay Cuts
After weeks of labor tension and 12 hours of suspenseful voting, members of the Newspaper Guild at The Boston Globe narrowly rejected a proposed package of wage and compensation cuts. As a result, the newspaper’s owner, The New York Times Company, said it would proceed with its threat to unilaterally impose a 23 percent salary cut.
My guess is they figure Obama will bail them out.
| 182 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:31:41am |
re: #179 3 wood
I did. Even Vanity Fair is admitting how much the media is in the tank for barry.
| 183 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:34:37am |
re: #181 3 wood
Wait until they sue, using "equal treatment under the law" citing the UAW.
"Gosh, your honor. They gave the company to the GM union. We wanna get ours!"
| 184 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:37:20am |
re: #180 Dar ul Harbarian
Damn, I'm seeing no images on that page.
| 185 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:37:39am |
The New York Times is getting out of lock step with their master, Obama. Now they are complaining about high gas prices.
High Gas Prices Could Slow Recovery
After just a few months of relief at the pump, cheap gasoline is disappearing.Gas prices have risen 41 days in a row, to a national average of almost $2.62 a gallon. That is a sharp increase from the low of $1.62 a gallon that prevailed at the end of last year.
Refinery problems are producing especially high prices in the Midwest, a region that was already reeling from the economic crisis. Michigan, the state with the highest unemployment rate, at 12.9 percent, is now paying the highest gasoline prices, averaging $2.93 a gallon.
The national jump in prices, far larger than the normal seasonal increase, is pulling billions of dollars from the pockets of drivers. It threatens to curtail a modest recovery in consumer spending on items like apparel and electronics.
Er, the main reason why process have jumped is the depreciation of the dollar due to the Fed and Obama's spending it like drunken sailors on shore leave. Just a suggestion to the NYT editors, it might help you to write factual stories on the economy if one of your staff actually read an economics book instead or Das Capital.
That aside, the editors at PRAVDA, .... I mean the New York Tiimes need to double check with their master. The Messiah has gone on record as wanting high gas prices in order to discourage the production of carbon.
| 186 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:37:58am |
re: #182 rightside
Even though I’ve been invited to the White House for a talk with Gibbs, there’s an abrupt cancellation when, after some chitchat with Burton, it becomes clear that my interest is in process rather than, per se, message. And then a kind of sudden vaporization—no Gibbs, according to Marissa Hopkins, his assistant, “for the foreseeable future.”
That says it all, doesn't it?
| 187 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:40:16am |
re: #183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Wait until they sue, using "equal treatment under the law" citing the UAW."Gosh, your honor. They gave the company to the GM union. We wanna get ours!"
That might not be too far fetched.
| 188 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:41:00am |
re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
It would be laughable, if it weren't so dangerous to our country. You can only fake leader of the free world for so long. One mistake can be catastrophic.
| 189 |
3 wood Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:42:01am |
Got to head out to work so I can pay for my neighbors health care.
As Dennis Miller says about taxes, "I don't mind helping the helpless. I object to helping the clueless."
| 190 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:44:46am |
re: #173 3 wood
Good morning.
The market futures are pointing down in reaction to the inflation.
Looking down the road, when the general public starts getting angry about rising prices and it's reflected on the pools such that Obama cares, I figure his next move will be wage a price controls across the board.
Wage and price controls do not work.
Just imagine New York rent controls on a country wide basis.
Yeah. Nixon's imposition of w&p controls was a disaster, and led to a massive surge of inflation when they were lifted. Just what we need, what with all the other inflationary pressures already in place.
| 191 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 4:53:45am |
barry trying to force his religious views on the US.
/sounds of chickens coming home to roost.
| 196 |
opnion Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:09:25am |
re: #182 rightside
I did. Even Vanity Fair is admitting how much the media is in the tank for barry.
Good morning. A lapdog press is a dangeroius thing & runs counter to their role as watchdog.They feel pretty good about their part in getting Obama elected , but some of them, deep down have to have remorse.
| 197 |
Dar ul Harbarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:10:03am |
I wonder how long this will last?
| 204 |
yochanan Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:23:19am |
what do you have when you grab the south end of a north facing cat?
| 206 |
apachegunner Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:27:22am |
re: #204 yochanan
what do you have when you grab the south end of a north facing cat?
Hand Sanitizer?
| 208 |
apachegunner Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:28:18am |
| 209 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:29:14am |
Daughter graduates from High School today. If I drop her off at the front door...not go to the ceremony... pick her up afterward and tell her she looked beautiful...think she'd know?
| 210 |
Mithrax Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:29:40am |
re: #209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Daughter graduates from High School today. If I drop her off at the front door...not go to the ceremony... pick her up afterward and tell her she looked beautiful...think she'd know?
She'd know.
| 212 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:30:31am |
When my son graduated, there were 39 (yes, thirty-nine) valedictorians. All 4.0 or higher.
| 213 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:31:04am |
| 214 |
Mithrax Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:35:04am |
re: #212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
When I graduated I was the valedictorian....of a class of 17 people.
The year before that, the graduating class was......3 people.
Gotta love a small private school :P
| 215 |
badger1970 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:35:45am |
Nothing like a quote to make one feel stupid. That and one knows he is losing it when the National Enquirer has "celebrities" that he has no clue as who they are.
On BO's adoration, the media finally found they idol worthy of a golden calf but unfortunately, he turns out to be the descendant of Mrs. O'Leary's cow.
*rhetorically of course*
| 216 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:38:41am |
re: #214 Mithrax
I came from the percentage in my class that made the top 90% possible.
| 217 |
Mithrax Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:41:25am |
| 218 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:42:02am |
morning lizards
greetings from day 2 of my vacation, yesterday went and saw "up"
great movie but if you have not seen it take a tissue, this is not a lighthearted little kids movie, well it is but there are some bits that are
well, for me and momcat, very tear-jerky, but still a fun movie.
the plan for today is to go to the zoo. they are supposed to have some new critters.
| 219 |
opnion Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:43:13am |
Ex ND coach, Lou Holtz was on Hannity last night on the panle with Beckel.
He looked at Beckel & said, "I have created 200,000 jobs. Prove that I didn't.Beckel really stuttered.
| 220 |
Mithrax Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:43:46am |
re: #218 rain of lead
Bring me back one of those leopard cubs will ya?
| 221 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:43:52am |
re: #209 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Daughter graduates from High School today. If I drop her off at the front door...not go to the ceremony... pick her up afterward and tell her she looked beautiful...think she'd know?
I guess that's where the "bastard" part comes in.
| 222 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:45:58am |
re: #220 Mithrax
Bring me back one of those leopard cubs will ya?
uhhh,I don't think momma leopard will let me "borrow" any
| 223 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:46:57am |
re: #221 haakondahl
Who? Meeee?
Hell, there're two sets of grandparents, wife, uncle, aunt, son...all there to watch the exits. Gonna take the Sunday crossword with me. Just before they call her name, I'll look up, then watch her get her diploma, then I'll finish my puzzle.
| 224 |
Mithrax Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:50:07am |
re: #223 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
It was amusing by my parents insisted and demanded that they come to my high school graduation.
University? could have cared less.
Masters? They sent my brother :P
| 225 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:51:14am |
Reminds me, I should take a ritalin.
| 226 |
razorbacker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:51:45am |
'Morning y'all.
As I sit here awaiting the arrival of a HVAC tech to do a preinstallation survey of my place, I can't help but bask in my own superiority over the rest of Ahmurrica. I, mired in the steamy South, bravely foregoing the corruption and Gaia-raping effect of air conditioning. If only all you would do likewise I have no doubt that the rise of the oceans would be reversed, extinct species would once again spring forth, and the average daytime temperature would be 72 degrees.
How do you live with yourselves?
I am assured that by the end of the week I will once more be a planet-raping Visigoth but for now I raise my chin in general distain at your lack of eco-savvy.
| 227 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:53:17am |
| 228 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:53:43am |
Obama, you scare me.
No wonder the NYTimes ignored it.
| 229 |
razorbacker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 5:58:20am |
re: #227 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
As yet, the temps haven't been too bad. It is coming, though. And I must say that the wife-woman is displaying some little annoyance at the lack of night-time AC. She hates the planet, is all I can figure.
As far as meeting real people, yesterday I saw a woman (I guess) in full bag from head to toe. She came from a store and got into a bright red car with a big razorback hog on the back window and 'Go Hogs Go' printed underneath.
I giggled.
| 230 |
apachegunner Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:00:03am |
re: #228 FrogMarch
Obama, you scare me.
No wonder the NYTimes ignored it.
great letter, thanks for the post
| 231 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:00:35am |
re: #228 FrogMarch
Damn. That was circulated via email at work. I thought yet another bogus hoax.
| 232 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:01:39am |
behind the scenes at the nashville zoo
breakfast at the zoo
| 233 |
haakondahl Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:02:17am |
re: #228 FrogMarch
Obama, you scare me.
No wonder the NYTimes ignored it.
Frankly, I wouldn't publish that shriek, either.
| 234 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:06:21am |
Anne Bayefsky speaks truth to power:
Jewish World Review June 9, 2009 / 17 Sivan 5769
Obama's stunning offense to Israel and the Jewish people
By Anne Bayefsky
President yet again makes his intentions clear
[Link: www.JewishWorldReview.com...] %P% President Obama's Cairo speech was nothing short of an earthquake — a distortion of history, an insult to the Jewish people, and an abandonment of very real human-rights victims in the Arab and Muslim worlds. It is not surprising that Arabs and Muslims in a position to speak were enthusiastic. It is more surprising that American commentators are praising the speech for its political craftiness, rather than decrying its treachery of historic proportions.
Obama equated the Holocaust to Palestinian "dislocation." In his words: "The Jewish people were persecuted. …anti-Semitism …culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust…. Six million Jews were killed…. On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people — Muslims and Christians — have suffered in pursuit of a homeland." This parallelism amounts to the fictitious Arab narrative that the deliberate mass murder of six million Jews for the crime of being Jewish is analogous to a Jewish-driven violation of Palestinian rights...
[Link: www.jewishworldreview.com...]
| 235 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:08:25am |
From Drudge
North Korea today said it would use nuclear weapons in a "merciless offensive" if provoked — its latest bellicose rhetoric apparently aimed at deterring any international punishment for its recent atomic test blast.
Nice.
| 236 |
razorbacker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:08:57am |
Yesterday I saved or created over 987,351 new jobs. Good jobs, too. Green jobs. With high pay, and excellent medical insurance. Each job comes with 53 weeks per year of paid vacation.
What did you do?
.
.
.
.
I thought so.
| 237 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:10:27am |
re: #219 opnion
Ex ND coach, Lou Holtz was on Hannity last night on the panle with Beckel.
He looked at Beckel & said, "I have created 200,000 jobs. Prove that I didn't.Beckel really stuttered.
It would have been alot more appropriate of this administration if Holtz had said he saved 200,000 jobs.
| 238 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:10:48am |
re: #228 FrogMarch
Obama, you scare me.
No wonder the NYTimes ignored it.
On the other hand:
Obama Derangement Syndrome II; A Non-partisan plea for civility and equity
| 239 |
MandyManners Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:10:51am |
re: #236 razorbacker
Yesterday I saved or created over 987,351 new jobs. Good jobs, too. Green jobs. With high pay, and excellent medical insurance. Each job comes with 53 weeks per year of paid vacation.
What did you do?
.
.
.
.I thought so.
I hugged a child.
| 240 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:10:53am |
re: #219 opnion
Ex ND coach, Lou Holtz was on Hannity last night on the panle with Beckel.
He looked at Beckel & said, "I have created 200,000 jobs. Prove that I didn't.Beckel really stuttered.
Heh, saw that. Can't stand Beckel.
| 241 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:12:25am |
re: #236 razorbacker
Yesterday I saved or created over 987,351 new jobs. Good jobs, too. Green jobs. With high pay, and excellent medical insurance. Each job comes with 53 weeks per year of paid vacation.
What did you do?
.
.
.
.I thought so.
I only used one square of toilet paper yesterday. So there. Ha.
| 242 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:12:44am |
Good morning folks... very interesting analysis of the Obama administration's response to North Korea's recent nuclear & missile tests.
Clinton’s North Korea trial balloon may crash
U.S. officials have spent the past two weeks attempting to convince the Chinese government to cooperate with the Proliferation Security Initiative WMD interdiction program. However, the fact that the U.S. has nothing to announce in that regards might hint that they have made little progress thus far with the Chinese.
In a weekend television interview, Secretary Clinton explained how a lack of Chinese cooperation could result in a regional arms race that would not be in China’s interest. The fact that she is explaining this to the U.S. viewing public may indicate that the Obama administration is preparing its reasoning for future military actions it intends to take. Such a public preparation campaign also increases pressure on the Chinese to cooperate.
This is a risky course for the Obama administration. It is gradually committing itself to some sort of military interdiction option against North Korea. But it has not yet secured Chinese cooperation with the venture. It has now gone public with its intentions both to prepare the U.S. public and to pressure the Chinese.
This overt course risks strong resistance by the Chinese and, of course, military brinkmanship from North Korea against Seoul, which would test the South Korean public’s limits.
Will the U.S. now see this course through with a risk of a military clash and a break with the Chinese? Or will the Obama team ultimately have to back down with consequences for its North Korea and Iran policies?
| 243 |
razorbacker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:12:51am |
| 244 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:13:03am |
re: #228 FrogMarch
Obama, you scare me.
No wonder the NYTimes ignored it.
The last line was probably the most telling.
| 245 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:13:04am |
re: #239 MandyManners
The Kid ripped it up last night. How long did it take to calm him down. Sounded like a great game.
That when you hugged him? (There's a fine line between hugging and holding down)/
| 246 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:13:59am |
re: #212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
When my son graduated, there were 39 (yes, thirty-nine) valedictorians. All 4.0 or higher.
So FBV, to what do you attribute such astounding academic success? Were they all super geniuses?
| 247 |
razorbacker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:14:31am |
re: #241 KenJen
I only used one square of toilet paper yesterday. So there. Ha.
I been meaning to tell you. You get a fresh square every day. So go ahead and dispose of that square you've been using.
Thanks ever so much for the effort, though.
| 248 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:15:25am |
re: #238 Dark_Falcon
On the other hand:
Obama Derangement Syndrome II; A Non-partisan plea for civility and equity
Agreed.
Hitler comparisons are so old. Madonna, the queen of anti-intellectual pop, compared John McCain to Hitler. It's a stupid, lazy, insulting thing to do.
| 249 |
golly Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:15:37am |
re: #232 rain of lead
What else do you have planned in my town for the day? Free advice available.
| 250 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:16:28am |
re: #236 razorbacker
Yesterday I saved or created over 987,351 new jobs. Good jobs, too. Green jobs. With high pay, and excellent medical insurance. Each job comes with 53 weeks per year of paid vacation.
What did you do?
.
.
.
.I thought so.
I left all the lights on and I left the water running while I brushed my teeth. Oh, wait a minute....
/
| 251 |
pingjockey Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:17:54am |
re: #248 FrogMarch
You need to use somebody besides Hitler. Caligula is good, or Edward II(according to the Scots). Anybody but Hitler.
| 252 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:18:11am |
re: #242 Kenneth
Good morning folks... very interesting analysis of the Obama administration's response to North Korea's recent nuclear & missile tests.
"Or will the Obama team ultimately have to back down with consequences for its North Korea and Iran policies?"
Answer: Yes.
The Obama Administration will back down. It will seek to buy off the North Koreans...a policy which was pioneered by Clinton and perfected by Bush.
As for Iran, the Obama Administration will blame Israel for not signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty...it has already laid the groundwork to do just that.
| 253 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:18:55am |
Good morning y'all, from a warm (73 degrees going up to 92 degrees) and currently sunny (heavy T-Storms predicated later today) Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
| 254 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:18:58am |
re: #251 pingjockey
You need to use somebody besides Hitler. Caligula is good, or Edward II(according to the Scots). Anybody but Hitler.
did I compared someone to Hitler?
| 255 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:19:20am |
re: #249 golly
What else do you have planned in my town for the day? Free advice available.
you live in nashville, cool!
gonna go to the science center one day this week
| 256 |
pingjockey Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:20:15am |
re: #254 FrogMarch
My bad grammar strikes again! I meant people who compare people to Hitler in rhetoric!
| 258 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:21:36am |
re: #253 realwest
Good morning y'all, from a warm (73 degrees going up to 92 degrees) and currently sunny (heavy T-Storms predicated later today) Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
Morning real. Feeling better today?
We already had the thunderstorms. Looked like night here for a while.
My back lawn is beginning to sprout mushrooms. We've had a wet spring.
| 260 |
golly Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:22:22am |
re: #255 rain of lead
If you are a food freak, visit the Global Market across the street. It's a small place with exotic groceries. It's the only thing across the street, so you can't miss it.
| 261 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:22:36am |
Who is the peasant lady pictured with Obama on Drudge?
| 262 |
lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:22:51am |
re: #253 realwest
Morning all.
Hi Realwest. Read the news about Mary Easley? That's been my first real NC political scandal. Funny to see how they play out down here. Remarkably similar to MA, except down here she actually got canned. In MA, she'd have been put on some quasi-public "board" at the same salary. Also funny to see all the people who've been defending her and swearing up and down that she was a great asset deciding yesterday that she schemed for the job and that the position doesn't even really exist.
Gotta love politics.
| 263 |
pingjockey Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:23:45am |
re: #259 Iron Fist
I expect a plethora of strongly worded statements, etc...Nothing concrete. China isn't going to do jack shit to rein in Lil Kim.
| 264 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:23:51am |
re: #256 pingjockey
My bad grammar strikes again! I meant people who compare people to Hitler in rhetoric!
*whew*
| 265 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:24:59am |
re: #252 MJ
"Or will the Obama team ultimately have to back down with consequences for its North Korea and Iran policies?"
Answer: Yes.
The Obama Administration will back down. It will seek to buy off the North Koreans...a policy which was pioneered by Clinton and perfected by Bush.
As for Iran, the Obama Administration will blame Israel for not signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty...it has already laid the groundwork to do just that.
I'm not so sure that will work. The Norks may well ask a price Obama cannot pay. If they do that, then its war.
| 266 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:25:51am |
re: #260 golly
thanks for the tip, how long have you been in twang town
| 267 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:25:52am |
re: #238 Dark_Falcon
On the other hand:
Obama Derangement Syndrome II; A Non-partisan plea for civility and equity
Horowitz is right about the Hitler comparisons.
However, we need another term to describe the obvious ability of nearly everyone in the press as well as other individuals to rationalize away every single bad decision Obama has made. Perhaps something along the lines of
OAS: Obama Apologist Syndrome.
| 268 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:25:59am |
re: #252 MJ
Bingo.
US foreign policy today features Clintonian triangulation within the Obama Doctrine strategy or Preemptive Surrender.
Trying to tease a bone away from a savage dog:
The Administration is apparently trying to de-link the arrest of the two American journalists from the nuclear confrontation between Pyongyang and Washington. Quite naturally, the diplomats don’t want Laura Ling or Euna Lee caught in the middle. So they are trying to cut them out of the larger deal and settle the issue within a smaller framework they are trying to construct. Maybe the package will involve a prisoner swap or the release of some asset, but the main idea is to keep Ling and Lee out of the nuclear sanctions problem. In principle it makes sense. In practice, not so much. The problem of course, is that is precisely what the Dear Leader wants them for: to mix them up with the nuclear issue. The men in Pyongyang can read the New York Times just as well as anyone else. They know that President Obama is trying to set an exchange up as a side deal. For that reason they will keep sweeping Ling and Lee into the center of the table.
| 269 |
MandyManners Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:26:16am |
Bitch, piss, whine and moan.
I'm a monster for making him get his little butt up to go to golf camp.
| 270 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:26:35am |
re: #261 KenJen
Who is the peasant lady pictured with Obama on Drudge?
That aint no lady, or peasant either.
| 271 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:26:41am |
re: #258 VioletTiger
Morning VioletTiger - ah, no, I'm not feeling better and am going to see my oncologist tomorrow morning. On the phone he says my sore lower abdomen and lower back can't be from the Cancer (correction "I'm 99% sure it's not from the cancer, you just overworked those muscles again."). However I'm supposed to get one of those HUMONGOUS injectios of time release meds tomorrow from his nurse anyway so I worked in a quick visit with him!
And We went from Winter to summer and waived at spring as it went roaring past ourselves!
How are you doing today?
| 272 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:26:57am |
Good Morning Lizards!
One year ago today, almost to the minute, I became a hatchling. I surfed to the LGF homepage, as I had been doing for only a couple of weeks, and saw that the door had been left open. I knocked anyway, as I had been taught, and was warmly welcomed. Just like that I became a member of this exclusive community. Today, thanks to the rain falling on Connecticut, I find myself inside sitting at my computer instead of working outside, as I have been doing a lot lately, and able to reflect on my time here. I first joined this site with the intention of becoming better informed on the issues of the day, but soon found myself also being drawn in by you good people. Now I have come to consider many of you as friends. I even find myself talking about you and your comments with my non-cyber friends. Like with all friends, there have been moments of disagreement and misunderstanding, but there have also been very moving and sometimes hilarious moments as well. I would like to thank all of you for your acceptance, your insights, your humor and your friendship. Hopefully, in the coming days, weeks, months and years this relationship can continue to grow and deepen.
| 273 |
MandyManners Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:27:00am |
re: #267 MJ
Horowitz is right about the Hitler comparisons.
However, we need another term to describe the obvious ability of nearly everyone in the press as well as other individuals to rationalize away every single bad decision Obama has made. Perhaps something along the lines of
OAS: Obama Apologist Syndrome.
The MFM have OAS.
| 274 |
golly Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:27:16am |
re: #266 rain of lead
Since 1948 :-) with side trips elsewhere. I live in the house that I was brought up in. I'm about as native as it gets.
| 276 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:27:35am |
re: #259 Iron Fist
I'm betting on the back down. It doesn't look like L'il Kim is going to flinch. Not even a little bit.
...the plight of Ling and Lee are a reflection in miniature of the dilemmas with dealing with North Korea. Be nice to them, appeal for clemency, release prisoners to secure the freedom of hostages — and they will do the dirty again. Cross Pyongyang, raise the ante, dare them to draw — and you risk escalating the conflict to a level that nobody can calculate.... who will listen to their threats and bluster with cold eyes and then shoot Kim in the knees regardless of the hostages. I do not think Barack Obama will do this. But someday Kim will push his luck too far. People like him always do.
| 277 |
UFO TOFU Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:27:37am |
re: #269 MandyManners
Congrats on your kid's game (from the music thread)!
| 278 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:27:57am |
re: #246 VioletTiger
So FBV, to what do you attribute such astounding academic success? Were they all super geniuses?
Nothing really, upper end public school. Bunch of good students...bunch of hyper-involved parents.
| 279 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:28:07am |
re: #267 MJ
The person who said Obamadulation yesterday was spot on.
| 280 |
pingjockey Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:29:06am |
re: #269 MandyManners
"Make" him go to golf camp? What are you? Heartless? Have to go out and play?! Sheesh. My younger two have run off to granma and grampas and I have no idea when we'll see them again! There's a river, mini bikes, tractors, etc...The oldest has went off with his uncle and the house is deathly still....YAAAAY!
| 281 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:29:11am |
re: #263 pingjockey
I expect a plethora of strongly worded statements, etc...Nothing concrete. China isn't going to do jack shit to rein in Lil Kim.
Obama has always been able to skate by on smoothness until now. He's never really faced a situation where it does no good before this year. The only hope (and its a slim one) is that he finds the ability to hold to a hard course and deal with the fallout.
That said, a break with China would make our current economic problem go from bad to apocalyptic. Most of the products I sell are made in China and a major trade disruption would bankrupt me.
| 282 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:29:17am |
re: #271 realwest
So sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I hope the Big Shot does you some good.
| 285 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:30:29am |
re: #262 lincolntf Ah, well I do think politics - as the art of the possible - is probably a noble profession. I just find it strange that it attracts so many truly bizzare people.
And yeah, I was STUNNED when she was fired (for y'all who don't know what we're talking about, former govenor Easley of N.C. appointed or had his wife appointed to some big paying no-show type job and down here it was considered a scandal) - in NYC or Chicago she'd a just been shuffled around to a less prominent or visable position!
| 286 |
ihateronpaul Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:30:40am |
good article on kooks mcgoo oreilly
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 287 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:30:40am |
re: #279 soxfan4life
The person who said Obamadulation yesterday was spot on.
That was me. Please contribute $1 to your favorite election conservative campaign for every time you use that neologism.
| 288 |
pingjockey Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:30:44am |
re: #281 Dark_Falcon
What would it do to China? The balance of trade is imbalanced to the extreme.
| 289 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:30:55am |
re: #271 realwest
Good morning, Real. Sorry to hear you aren't having a good day. You are in my thoughts and prayers daily.
| 290 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:31:03am |
re: #274 golly
you need to say hi to jacksontn, she has a coffee shop down at the farmers market, a very sweet kind lady
if you do tell her rain sent ya
| 293 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:32:08am |
re: #263 pingjockey
Hey ping - good morning to you! I'm not so sure anymore that there is much China CAN DO about NORK. I really think, since Lil Kim got his nukes he's given the finger to China.
How are you doing today my friend?
| 294 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:32:15am |
| 295 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:32:22am |
re: #272 Ford_Prefect
I'm so glad you like me the best! Happy Birthday!
| 296 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:33:09am |
re: #295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'm so glad you like me the best! Happy Birthday!
Well, there is so much of you to like.
| 297 |
razorbacker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:33:12am |
I hear rocks popping in the driveway, so I guess the guy is here.
Y'all have a good one.
Create lots of good, green jobs.
Pay no attention to the dastardly Republicans. It's all gonna be sunshine and lollypops and sweet bubble-up.
As they say in Wisconsin, 'Just smell our dairy-air.'
| 298 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:34:12am |
re: #288 pingjockey
China needs the US to buy their cheap manufactured goods. The China's economy is suffering because US demand has dropped. The US needs China to produce cheap stuff to keep the consumer economy rolling along. And the US needs China to buy US Treasury bonds to keep the dollar from tanking. The economic compact is called Chimerica.
| 299 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:34:40am |
re: #272 Ford_Prefect Hey there Ford_Prefect! Happy Birthday/anniversary/whatever! LGF has been notably improved by your presence here.
And btw, love the avatar!
| 300 |
golly Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:34:44am |
re: #290 rain of lead
Way cool. I had no idea she was at the market. I go there at least weekly, and am due for a trip. Inside or outside on the weekends only.
I have been meaning to tell her that Cindy Shehag is going to be coming to town. Oh joy.........not.
| 302 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:35:30am |
I'll repeat what I've said before: We should defeat North Korea without war. All that's required is to open the Chinese and South Korean borders to millions of North Korean refugees, depopulating the country. The international community would have to prepare for such an onslaught, and it would be costly. It would be cheaper than a nuclear war, however.
| 303 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:35:33am |
re: #293 realwest
One or two small bombs without a delivery system are not an absolute threat to China. They do function as a terrorist threat against South Korea or Japan.
| 305 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:35:37am |
re: #288 pingjockey
What would it do to China? The balance of trade is imbalanced to the extreme.
China would suffer even worse. Obama might get somewhere by reminding China about who they really need and then push them to toss the Norks under the bus.
I'm out. Have to get to work.
| 306 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:35:46am |
re: #271 realwest
Aside from getting soaked this morning, can't complain.
Hope you feel better.
| 307 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:36:02am |
re: #299 realwest
That is very kind of you, Real. Thank you.
| 308 |
Digital Display Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:38:06am |
re: #307 Ford_Prefect
That is very kind of you, Real. Thank you.
Happy Birthday Ford! Wish you a thousand more..well unless you mess up social security...
Happy Birthday!
| 309 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:38:24am |
re: #278 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Nothing really, upper end public school. Bunch of good students...bunch of hyper-involved parents.
My daughter's class was supercharged also. The last few years have been very competitive for college entrance. I wonder what will happen when these kids graduate? Will they be full of the competitive capitalist spirit or will their expectations be unreasonably high?
| 310 |
rain of lead Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:38:33am |
re: #300 golly
if you catch her here at lgf find out when she will be there cause she has a lot of irons in the fire and is not there all the time
| 311 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:38:37am |
re: #304 justabill
Yea, I'd say were mostly harmless...
Yes, so long as you stay clear of the Vogons and their banning guns.
| 312 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:38:52am |
re: #298 Kenneth
Of course, the Chinese now are considering directing their manufacturing capacity, developed with our help, to supply their own countrymen. Assuming that they provide every Chinese consumer with a credit card and lots of cheap credit, that can work. They can fund the credit with the dollars they've earned from us.
That enables them to decouple from us while we go through our economic death spiral.
| 313 |
John Neverbend Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:39:39am |
re: #27 Yitzchak
I thought the big complaint about 12-tone music is that it is all "system and scholarship" and no genuine expression of musical meaning.
Perhaps he means that it lacks the kind of scholarship that has been built up around the earlier more tonal composers (Mozart, Beethoven, etc.). I've listened to and played a fair share of 12-tone music. It varies greatly from the music of Berg, say, which is in parts extremely beautiful, to the later composers like Berio, and Boulez.
| 315 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:40:23am |
re: #282 Kenneth
Good morning Kenneth! Well the Big Shot is just a four month time capsule and is unrelated to the pain I have - if the Onc's 99% is correct! But it won't do anything for the pain I've got. Almost feels like a hernia but for the lower back pain - THAT'S where I felt so much pain when the cancer was first diagnosed, so naturally back pain to my mind = cancer!
But thanks for the kind wishes.
| 316 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:40:42am |
re: #309 VioletTiger
I'm trying to convince daughter to go to a trade. Plumbers will be the neurosurgeons in 25 years.
| 318 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:41:42am |
re: #289 Ford_Prefect
Thak you very much.
Uh, could I impose and ask y'all to pray just a little bit harder today and tomorrow?!?!
:)
| 320 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:42:08am |
re: #303 Kenneth
One or two small bombs without a delivery system are not an absolute threat to China. They do function as a terrorist threat against South Korea or Japan.
Right.
It's time for Japan to step up to the plate and seriously consider whether it too needs to develop it's own nuclear weapons. Japan, Europe, and Israel can no longer depend upon the US nuclear umbrella to defend it's interests.
There is no evidence to support the view that this Administration will use force against those who threaten it's interests outside of the borders of this country. In fact, just the opposite has been apparent since this Administration came into power. Project weakness, sell your allies out, and hope it leads to "peace".
| 321 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:42:34am |
re: #308 HoosierHoops
Thanks, HH. Don't think I want to live that long, though. I couldn't put up with the thousands of offspring.
| 322 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:42:37am |
re: #312 quickjustice
That is a frightening prospect. It will take time to develop China into a modern consumer economy, not something they can accomplish in a few years. But in a few decades? maybe...
| 323 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:43:08am |
Greets and saluts from the thunderstorm encircled NYC metro area. It was a dark and stormy night, and the morning isn't much better, but then again, it's a perfect reflection of the situation that happened up in Albany last night. Two Democrats staged a palace coup and sent Senate Democrats packing as they handed power over to the GOP.
For NYS politics, even this was something of a surprise - and something that hadn't been seen or contemplated in the past. And who do we have to congratulate for the new mess (which is hardly better than the past mess?)
Hiram Monserrate, who is busy fending off criminal assault charges after being indicted in NYC, and Pedro Espada, who's had some legal issues of his own dealing with election filings (or the lack thereof).
| 325 |
Miss Trixie Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:43:26am |
♪ ♬ Good morning {lizards!} ♬ ♪
Rainy, misty and fogbound in the valley and it looks like it's here to stay for a few days. Could be worse - cold be sneaux ... :P
{realwest} Good morning luv *smoochie-smooch* I've missed you these past few days and I come online to see that you're in pain. Prayers going on up and you're always in my good thoughts when I talk to the Big Guy.
soxfan4life
The person who said Obamadulation yesterday was spot on.
That'd be our verbacious lizard, Kenneth. :)
FordPrefect
Congrats Big Fella! Upschwingadingy! :D
| 327 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:43:37am |
re: #315 realwest
You have my best wishes and my prayers, real. Hang in there.
| 328 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:43:53am |
| 329 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:44:29am |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'm trying to convince daughter to go to a trade. Plumbers will be the neurosurgeons in 25 years.
There are several articles in trade journals were guidance counselors have said they wish they had steered more students toward trades instead of college. The problem with construction trades is they are very cyclical and are generally the first jobs affected in an economic downturn.
| 330 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:44:37am |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'm trying to convince daughter to go to a trade. Plumbers will be the neurosurgeons in 25 years.
I'm trying to convince mine to forget med school and go into engineering.
I expect to fail miserably.
| 331 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:45:07am |
| 332 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:45:43am |
re: #319 Iron Fist
The risk is whether such a "robust" reponse by the US will trigger the North Koreans to attack the South with 10,000 artillery guns, slaughtering millions, or will it cause the collapse of the regime. You may be willing to play that game, but I doubt the South Koreans will want to.
| 333 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:45:51am |
RJC to Obama administration:
Will you honor past agreements with Israel?
Washington, D.C. (June 9, 2009) -- The Republican Jewish Coalition calls on the Obama administration to give a clear and unambiguous answer to the question of whether they will honor the understanding established by President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon regarding settlements.
In a 2004 exchange of letters, an agreement was reached by the two countries about conditions under which Israel could build new housing within certain existing settlement areas. The Obama administration has taken the position that Israel must implement a "total freeze" on settlement activity, including natural growth in large population centers, which raises the question of whether the administration will adhere to the agreement made by the United States and Israel.
Commentators have noted that administration spokesmen have refused to answer this question as many as 21 times in the last two weeks. According to journalists who participated in recent press conferences with State Department spokesman Ian Kelly, deputy spokesman Robert Wood, and Assistant Secretary of State Philip J. Crowley, these State Department officials have danced around this question nearly two dozen times [1].RJC Executive Director Matthew Brooks said, "We are seeing a steady, step-by-step withdrawal by the Obama administration from key elements of the U.S.-Israeli alliance. The President who promised 'transparency' in his administration should be forthcoming about his intentions, his position, and his policies regarding these very sensitive issues. It is time for a clear and unambiguous answer to the question of whether the U.S. will stand by its past agreements and stand with our ally Israel."
Background:Dov Weissglas, a senior aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, told the New York Times [2] about the agreement. Weissglas recounts that an agreement reached by the two countries in a 2004 exchange of letters stated that housing could be built within the boundaries of certain settlement blocks as long as no new land was taken from Palestinians, no special economic incentives were offered to move to settlements, and no new settlements were built. Those exceptions were key to Israel accepting the Road Map and taking the extraordinary risks involved in the disengagement from Gaza.
President Bush's letter to Prime Minister Sharon noted: "In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli population centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949." This formal recognition by the U.S. was endorsed by a joint resolution of Congress [3] and was incorporated into Israel's disengagement plan. [4]
The Obama administration has repeatedly refused to state whether or not it will honor that understanding.
[1] [Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...] [Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...] [Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...] and
[Link: www.state.gov...]
[2] [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
[3] [Link: bulk.resource.org...]
[4] [Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]
| 334 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:46:16am |
re: #303 Kenneth
Well I don't know that they don't have a delivery system yet or in the next couple of months and I don't know if the Chinese see them as no threat or deterrent either!
| 335 |
justabill Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:46:22am |
re: #311 Ford_Prefect
I am actually wondering if that is a problem for me at the moment. I had my second comment deleted a couple days ago. Although IMO, worse posts have been let stand. I have been trying to talk to a moderator to find out where I stand, but they seem to be avoiding me.
| 337 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:47:14am |
re: #306 VioletTiger
Thanks - how did you get soaked? Oh, you mean y'all got caught in the rain?!
| 338 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:48:03am |
re: #320 MJ
A few days ago, a commenter here said that Japan already has everything it needs in place to construct a nuclear arsenal, and could go nuclear within three months. The U.S. government's promises to stop North Korea, now looking increasingly fragile, are the only thing preventing that.
I don't think nuclear proliferation a good thing, but given the repeated failures of previous U.S. Administrations to stop the North Koren nuclear weapons program, coupled with the haplessness of the Obama Administration, I think it inevitable.
| 339 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:48:15am |
re: #329 soxfan4life
Poop always gets stuck. New construction plumbing? The big bucks is in the poop!
| 340 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:48:20am |
re: #307 Ford_Prefect
And even better than kind, it's the truth! You're welcome.
| 341 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:48:32am |
| 342 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:49:43am |
re: #335 justabill
Did you link to a site that is not a welcome link here?
If you had a link in your post, make sure there isn't something on the site that is objectionable.
| 343 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:50:13am |
re: #312 quickjustice
Good morning quickjustice - you always so cheery this early in the AM?!
| 344 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:50:38am |
re: #323 lawhawk
Hey, Hawk! I had the "clown" metaphor for the jokers in Albany first! Nice blog nonetheless!
[Link: www.urbanelephants.com...]
| 345 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:51:07am |
re: #337 realwest
Thanks - how did you get soaked? Oh, you mean y'all got caught in the rain?!
Yep./ Had to get back to my desk from a meeting and didn't have an umbrella.
| 347 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:51:31am |
re: #335 justabill
Sometimes it is best to just let it go. Like with any family, there are certain topics that are best avoided, and certain comments best left unsaid. There are times that I choose to not participate in a discussion just because I don't want to start trouble, and times that I choose to look for conversation elsewhere because the topic being discussed just doesn't interest me. That has helped me stay out of trouble, for the most part.
| 348 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:51:34am |
re: #334 realwest
North Korea has some capacity to damage China, but not an overwhelming threat, is all I'm saying. Also, NoKo's troops are mostly along their southern border pointing south. They are unlikely to hurt their one an only foreign supporter. The threat the Norks are telling their Chinese friends is "Help us out or we will attack South Korea". This upsets China, because that would be bad for business.
| 349 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:51:42am |
re: #338 quickjustice
A few days ago, a commenter here said that Japan already has everything it needs in place to construct a nuclear arsenal, and could go nuclear within three months. The U.S. government's promises to stop North Korea, now looking increasingly fragile, are the only thing preventing that.
I don't think nuclear proliferation a good thing, but given the repeated failures of previous U.S. Administrations to stop the North Koren nuclear weapons program, coupled with the haplessness of the Obama Administration, I think it inevitable.
And I'd trust the Japanese much more than the North Koreans or the Iranians.
They wouldn't want to nuke a good customer.
| 350 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:51:48am |
re: #318 realwest
Thak you very much.
Uh, could I impose and ask y'all to pray just a little bit harder today and tomorrow?!?!
:)
Most certainly, {rw}!
And its no imposition at all.
Hiya, Lizard Nation!
| 351 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:52:05am |
re: #341 Kenneth
re: #320 MJ
My guess is Japan has told the US to deal with this soon or else they will move ahead with their own nuclear deterrent. They probably told the Chinese as well. For now, the US has told Japan to sit tight while the One works his "Obamagic" on the Norks.
Japan doesn't strike me as a country that is gonna sit tight for ever
| 352 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:52:05am |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian Hey good morning FBV! I got news for ya, in terms of "net" income, plumbers are the neurosurgeons of today!
| 353 |
justabill Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:53:21am |
re: #342 VioletTiger
Did you link to a site that is not a welcome link here?
If you had a link in your post, make sure there isn't something on the site that is objectionable.
Nope, just made an off color reference to the US allowing China to obtain a US car line originally designed to replace the army jeep.
| 354 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:53:29am |
re: #319 Iron Fist
Hey good morning Bro' - that's one of your many good traits - an evil mind! I like that in a person.
| 355 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:54:15am |
re: #346 Iron Fist
/But you're missing the point: now that Obama has closed Gitmo (sic), banned torture, apologized for America to the Muslim world and blamed Israel for all the Palestinian's problems, there will never be another terrorist attack ever again and happily ever after.
| 356 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:55:27am |
I was just listening to Dianna Krall doing a live version of Temptation. She is just wonderful.
| 357 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:55:49am |
re: #320 MJ Hey MJ - Japan would have to amend it's consitution to develop nukes, iirc. I think that if they did so, that would have almost as much of a deterrent effect on NORK as actually having Nukes (which, I'd wager, the Japanese would have in oh, maybe 4 months of getting the green light to go ahead and develop them) AND delivery systems too.
| 358 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:55:49am |
re: #352 realwest
Hey good morning FBV! I got news for ya, in terms of "net" income, plumbers are the neurosurgeons of today!
You bet.
The few times I have had to call one, it has cost me a bundle.
A clogged sink right before a Saturday night party? Dig up some cash.
Oh, and never put a lot of shrimp shells through your garbage disposal.
| 360 |
VioletTiger Tue, Jun 9, 2009 6:59:11am |
re: #359 Iron Fist
Ultimately, that is the game we are going to play. If it isn't over this, it will be over something else. Something more substantive, maybe, like the supplying of nuclear weapons to terrorist orgainizations. I doubt anyone can accurately predict what it will be over, but that it will come down to this eventually is almost certain. The idea that we can just hold on until they collapse hasn't worked particularly well when applied to a regeim that doesn't find its people being reduced to cannibalism is too big a hardship to pay for standing up to the big, bad United States.
That's the one I worry about.
They want money and supplies. They will do much to get it that does not involve cooperating with the sane parts of the world.
| 361 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:01:05am |
re: #329 soxfan4life
There are several articles in trade journals were guidance counselors have said they wish they had steered more students toward trades instead of college. The problem with construction trades is they are very cyclical and are generally the first jobs affected in an economic downturn.
However, those who can also do repair work tend to not suffer as much because during a downturn people tend to repair instead of replace things.
| 362 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:01:08am |
re: #325 {Miss Trixie} Good morning gorgeous! *Smooches* back to you! Sorry about your wet weather (I'll bet Lil Miss doesn't care for it AT ALL!).
And I'lll wager (hope!) that the pain is because I, ONCE AGAIN, have forgotten to warm up and stretch before performing any particular "work" type tasks, like cleaning my room.
Damn.
Are we having fun yet?!
:)
| 363 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:01:44am |
re: #339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Poop always gets stuck. New construction plumbing? The big bucks is in the poop!
I kind of hoped for the same when I got my electrician license. Unfortunately there are so many in my area that I went into power line construction which is also suffering in this economy.
| 364 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:03:47am |
I may lose you guys at any moment. There is a storm coming through and the lights keep flickering.
| 365 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:06:19am |
Uncertain days ahead for Globe employees. Can't wait to see how the folks who already voted for paycuts get sold this bill of goods by the newspaper guild. Apparently they haven't received the memo about the state of our economy.
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
| 366 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:06:54am |
Nancy is the only one showing class....
Supreme Court Nominee fractures ankle in NY airport
Republicans did not miss the opportunity to weigh in on Sotomayor’s demise. Newt Gingrich accused Sotomayor of faking the injury to gain empathy from Republican voters, according to the Huffington Post news website. "The fake-ankle-cast thing is the oldest trick in the book," Gingrich said. "She's only wearing that fake cast to help her rack up votes," the former Republican House Speaker said.
Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh did not miss his chance to comment on Sotomayor’s spill. "I hope [Sotomayor] can find a wise Latina doctor to set that ankle as opposed to an average white doctor," Limbaugh joked on his program.
The day was not with some positive feedback for the nominee. Former First Lady Laura Bush, appearing on ABC’s Good Morning America, declared Sotomayor a good pick. “I think she sounds like a very interesting and good nominee,” Mrs. Bush said this morning.
| 367 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:07:13am |
Jon Voigt: One of the only sane men in Hollywood:
[Link: therealbarackobama.wordpress.com...]
Hopefully others will listen to him instead of Babs, Reiner, and the other kool-ade drinkers.
| 368 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:08:01am |
re: #343 realwest
I'm always optimistic. The future can change overnight, for better or worse. I believe freedom, liberty, and democracy win in the long run.
Picture this: 3,000 student protesters in Tiananmen Square, in the heart of the People's Republic of China. They are demanding freedom and democracy from the communist party. They have been demonstrating for six weeks. They brandish paper mache replicas of the Statute of Liberty, and read the Declaration of Independence to each other. Sympathy protests are ongoing all over China. Word of the protests has spread to the countryside, where millions of peasants are laying down their tools, and beginning the long walk to Beijing to join the protests.
This happened twenty years ago. The Chinese people understand freedom and democracy. The communist party leadership panicked, and ordered the military to murder the protesters. It is a crime in China today to speak of the massacre at Tiananmen.
This means the leaders of the communist party still are afraid of our ideals. Whatever happens to our economy, America's ideals already have won in China. The Chinese people, carrying America's ideals with them, will triumph in time.
| 369 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:08:40am |
re: #367 _RememberTonyC
I disagree. I think the "False Prophet" stuff is a little embarrassing.
| 370 |
lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:08:46am |
| 371 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:10:15am |
re: #357 realwest
Hey MJ - Japan would have to amend it's Constitution to develop nukes, iirc. I think that if they did so, that would have almost as much of a deterrent effect on NORK as actually having Nukes (which, I'd wager, the Japanese would have in oh, maybe 4 months of getting the green light to go ahead and develop them) AND delivery systems too.
Right.
Japan would have to alter it's Constitution. It's time for it to do so even though many would find that idea abhorrent, especially the Chinese.
However, given the fact that Obama Administration has made the "settlement" issue the keystone issue of it's foreign policy, I don't see what choice Japan has. It already saw a NORK missile fly over it's territory and the US response was to fly to Cairo to talk up Muslim pride.
| 372 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:10:28am |
Republicans do something....
Republicans to counter Dems' U.S. financial reforms
Nothing to get excited about but it seems to semi-practical counter proposal. As long as it doesn't include Ron Paul's HR1207 I could live with it.
| 373 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:10:58am |
| 374 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:11:04am |
re: #348 Kenneth Ah! An excellent analysis there my friend. Now I just hope China get's IT'S shit together to rein in the NORKS cause Obama's administration has said (and I think quite properly) that all NORK ships leaving NORK waters into international waters WILL be interdicted (stopped and searched) to try to prevent any stray nuckes from getting to Terrorists or unfriendly (to the US) regimes.
If we do that and NORK does unleash a massive artilllery barrage on the South, no doubt thousands of US troops will be casualties (and perhaps hundreds of thousands of South Koreans) and it would thereafter be "game on" for us.
| 375 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:12:18am |
re: #366 Killgore Trout
You mean Laura Bush. The GOP shouldn't resort to mocking Sotomayor's ankle injury. What's the point? They should stick to focusing on her destructive identity politics, the notion that people should be judged by their race, their ethnicity, their gender, not as individuals.
| 376 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:12:37am |
re: #350 yma o hyd
Hey! Hi there {yma}! How are you and how the hell did Gord manage to hold on to the Prime minister's position?! What, not even a call for an election?!
| 378 |
opnion Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:14:39am |
Evan Thomas of Newsweek really let the mask slip saying that Obama trancsends nationalism & is above that, as welll as above trhe world as god.
That is part of the problem, Obama thinks that he runs the World & U.S interests are no more important than any others.
I really want my president to be pro American, I want him to believe in American exceptionalism.
| 379 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:14:49am |
re: #366 Killgore Trout
Nancy is the only one showing class....
Supreme Court Nominee fractures ankle in NY airport...according to the Huffington Post news website.
Puh-lease.
| 380 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:14:55am |
re: #377 rain of lead
off to the zoo, play nice and stay scaly
I moisturized this morning. No scales for me!
| 381 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:16:07am |
re: #379 CommonCents
Yeah, I haven't found confirmation of that quote. It is similar to a lot of comments on right wing sites so it is plausible.
| 382 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:17:22am |
re: #364 Ford_Prefect
YIKES! A storm coming through! Quick, disengage your puter from internet, and turn off
'puter altogether and unplug from what I hope is a power strip, until storm passes. I've seen fried and smokin' motherboards and they ain't pretty!
Catch us all later!
| 383 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:17:36am |
re: #381 Killgore Trout
Yeah, I haven't found confirmation of that quote. It is similar to a lot of comments on right wing sites so it is plausible.
I find it comical that one commentary site would list another as a "news" source. Especially the Huffington Post.
| 384 |
Steffan Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:17:52am |
There will be a lot of exploding heads in the left side of the blogosphere over this juicy little item:
The Obama administration objected yesterday to the release of certain Bush-era documents that detail the videotaped interrogations of CIA detainees at secret prisons, arguing to a federal judge that doing so would endanger national security and benefit al-Qaeda's recruitment efforts.
In an affidavit, CIA Director Leon E. Panetta defended the classification of records describing the contents of the 92 videotapes, their destruction by the CIA in 2005 and what he called "sensitive operational information" about the interrogations.
The ACLU is leading the exploding head parade.
Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU's national security program, said yesterday evening that it is "grim" and "troubling" for the Obama administration to say that information about purported abuses should be withheld because it might fuel anti-American propaganda. He said that amounts to an assertion that "the greater the abuse, the more important it is that it should remain secret." Jaffer said the ACLU is convinced that the public should have "access to the complete record of what took place in the CIA's prisons and on whose authority."
The Hopenchange Express strikes again!
| 385 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:17:56am |
| 386 |
quickjustice Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:17:57am |
re: #378 opnion
Newsweek is so deep in the tank for Obama they need pressure equalization suits! They're so separated from reality that I'm coming around to the theory that these people are space aliens.
| 387 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:19:31am |
re: #369 Killgore Trout
I disagree. I think the "False Prophet" stuff is a little embarrassing.
some of it is rhetoric, but the substance of his speech is strong.
| 388 |
MandyManners Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:19:36am |
Eighty per cent humidity. Cloudy skies. Sounds like perfect nap weather to me.
*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*
| 389 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:19:55am |
re: #386 quickjustice
Newsweek is so deep in the tank for Obama they need pressure equalization suits! They're so separated from reality that I'm coming around to the theory that these people are space aliens.
They have just been assimilated into the Borg.
| 390 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:20:04am |
Destroy me then rescue me, oh holy economic illiterate.
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
RTWT
| 391 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:20:22am |
re: #379 CommonCents
It seems the story started yesterday from alternet....
Andy Borowitz: Gingrich Accuses Sotomayor of Faking Broken Ankle
They've taken the story down but Huffpo still has it up.
| 392 |
freekurdistan Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:20:42am |
When the Extreme Becomes the Norm by Christopher Hitchens
| 393 |
opnion Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:20:48am |
re: #386 quickjustice
Newsweek is so deep in the tank for Obama they need pressure equalization suits! They're so separated from reality that I'm coming around to the theory that these people are space aliens.
Sure looks that way. They no longer even try to hide it.
| 394 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:21:20am |
re: #344 quickjustice
Are you sure about that? I've been blogging about NYS politics for years (and know first-hand having worked for the Legislature in my formative years).
| 395 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:21:28am |
re: #387 _RememberTonyC
I tried to watch it but gave up. Delivery was slow and stilted and the rhetoric wasn't anything I haven't heard before.
| 397 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:22:19am |
re: #376 realwest
Hey! Hi there {yma}! How are you and how the hell did Gord manage to hold on to the Prime minister's position?! What, not even a call for an election?!
Hiya, {rw}!
He managed to cling on for the following easons:
* bullying his MPs by telling them they'd get no support from any NuLab minister, or the party, come the elections;
* severe arm-twisting and spinning by his minions;
* no one, not one NuLab MP actually challenging him openly for a leadership contest;
* and because of the utter spinelessness of the NuLab MPs, who prefer to have Gord cling on to the end so that they can get their huge salaries/expenses etc for another ten months.
Its about the welfare of those poor NuLAb MPs, and of poor Gord, see - its not about the welfare of our country and its people!
| 399 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:24:13am |
re: #391 Killgore Trout
Which makes me think it was total crap. That's not the Newt I know.
| 400 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:24:16am |
re: #395 Killgore Trout
I tried to watch it but gave up. Delivery was slow and stilted and the rhetoric wasn't anything I haven't heard before.
ten minutes isn't that long ... but suit yourself. he made many excellent points, particularly about Obama's attitude towards Israel.
| 401 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:24:27am |
re: #366 Killgore Trout
A) I think you meant Laura Bush, not Nancy.
B) Rush and Newt were both joking about teh situation based on Sotomayor's own statements about Latinas and knowledge.
| 402 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:25:03am |
re: #399 CommonCents
Which makes me think it was total crap. That's not the Newt I know.
If he really said it, there would be an audio clip of it. I haven't found one.
| 403 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:25:29am |
Morning all. Coffee beside me, 2 stories to illustrate what happens adults are not in charge, one at the state level, the other national
STATE ,, NEW YORK ,,
[Link: wcbstv.com...]
Malcolm Smith Ousted As Senate Majority Leader; Dems Turn Off Lights, Cut Internet Power In Attempt To Stop Coup
Interesting that the paper uses the word "coup" to describe two dems defecting to the R's. Did they use that word when Arlan Spectre switched parties?
NATIONAL ,, NANA PELOSI
[Link: thehill.com...]
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-Va.) says he has requested to meet privately with Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) this year, but has been repeatedly rebuffed.
In an interview with The Hill, the minority whip said, “I have been told that Speaker Pelosi doesn’t like to meet with Republicans … I would say that is the case in my instance. I have put in requests to meet with her and have yet to be responded to.”
| 404 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:26:06am |
Here is today's CARTOON in the TIMES/London, about the outcome of the EU elections here.
(The person on the left, with the purple and yellow rosette represents UKIP - the United Kingdom Independent party - who has campaigned to get the UK out of Europe - and got the second highest percantage of votes overall ...)
| 405 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:26:10am |
re: #400 _RememberTonyC
...he made many excellent points, particularly about Obama's attitude towards Israel.
I did make it that far. I was pleased to see that part received applause, I almost expected a Paulian or Buchananite in the crowd to start booing.
| 407 |
johnnyreb Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:27:00am |
re: #359 Iron Fist
Ultimately, that is the game we are going to play. If it isn't over this, it will be over something else. Something more substantive, maybe, like the supplying of nuclear weapons to terrorist orgainizations. I doubt anyone can accurately predict what it will be over, but that it will come down to this eventually is almost certain. The idea that we can just hold on until they collapse hasn't worked particularly well when applied to a regeim that doesn't find its people being reduced to cannibalism is too big a hardship to pay for standing up to the big, bad United States.
That didn't work for Cuba and it ain't gonna work for North Korea. We have to man up and realize we let them do this against our better judgment. We let the six party talks go on for so friggin long they just past their expiration date. We did the same exact thing in 53 at the peace talks. Hell technically those are still going on. Now they are threatening the entire area with Nukes. Can they deliver on their threats? We sure as heck don't want to find out. Cause if they can Japan and the South are going to take some serious hits, and the South may not make it out of it.
| 408 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:27:33am |
re: #401 lawhawk
A) I think you meant Laura Bush, not Nancy.
B) Rush and Newt were both joking about teh situation based on Sotomayor's own statements about Latinas and knowledge.
Ah, thanks for clearing up the Nancy/Laura confusion. It's still early and I got my Republican chicks confused.
| 409 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:29:09am |
re: #405 Killgore Trout
I did make it that far. I was pleased to see that part received applause, I almost expected a Paulian or Buchananite in the crowd to start booing.
thankfully that did not happen. but a Republican crowd is far more likely than a Dem crowd to give a pro-Israel message enthusiastic, heartfelt applause these days.
| 410 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:30:44am |
Hot Air linked to this....
Why Is the Right Doing So Well in Europe?For a start, they don't spend like drunken sailors.
I think it's a little obtuse. The BNP certainly capitalized on spending scandals but they don't have a fiscally conservative agenda. Same with Geert, VB, FN, FPO or any of the other creeps. They're appeal is not about economics.
| 412 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:31:13am |
re: #409 _RememberTonyC
thankfully that did not happen. but a Republican crowd is far more likely than a Dem crowd to give a pro-Israel message enthusiastic, heartfelt applause these days.
The Dem crowd thinks the Holy Land is the government office where they exercise their "right" to free stuff.
| 413 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:31:23am |
re: #384 Steffan
Why do I have the impression that Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU's national security program, would find anything beneficial to the US national security program "grim" and "troubling"?
Maybe because he's the co- author of this little gem:
"Administration of torture: a documentary record from Washington to Abu Ghraib and beyond. New York: Columbia University Press."(2007) [emphasis added, realwest]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 414 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:32:16am |
re: #392 freekurdistan
Great essay by Hitch:
The officers in charge were so pleased by this ability to show off their extreme broad-mindedness in respect of Islam that they looked almost hurt when I asked how they justified the use of taxpayers' money to create an institution dedicated to the fervent practice of the most extreme version of just one religion. To the huge list of reasons to close down Guantanamo, add this: It's a state-sponsored madrasah.
Political correctness gone wild is Stuck on stupid.
| 415 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:32:43am |
re: #409 _RememberTonyC
thankfully that did not happen. but a Republican crowd is far more likely than a Dem crowd to give a pro-Israel message enthusiastic, heartfelt applause these days.
I really hope that doesn't change. I'm very concerned about the wacky libertarians and paleocons in the Republican party. I hope they stay marginalized.
| 416 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:34:36am |
BYU Study: Conservatives Are More Likely Than Liberals To Read Opposing View Points
People with stronger party affiliation, conservative political views, and greater interest in politics proved more likely to click on articles with opposing views, according to the Ohio State study.
“It appears that people with these characteristics are more confident in their views and so they’re more inclined to at least take a quick look at the counterarguments,” Knobloch-Westerwick noted. ...
The Brigham Young University survey found that journalists also tended to read liberal blogs - perhaps a reflection of journalists’ political beliefs, although even conservatives said liberal blogs were often better-written, Davis pointed out.
Morning Honcos!
| 417 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:35:26am |
United States President Barack Obama has presented to Egypt and Israel a plan for a two-state solution to be finalized within two years, the London-based A-Sharq al-Awsat reported on Tuesday.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Maybe someone should clue Obama into who lives on the West Bank and Gaze. It ain't Egyptians?
| 418 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:36:24am |
re: #374 realwest
Ah! An excellent analysis there my friend. Now I just hope China get's IT'S shit together to rein in the NORKS cause Obama's administration has said (and I think quite properly) that all NORK ships leaving NORK waters into international waters WILL be interdicted (stopped and searched) to try to prevent any stray nuckes from getting to Terrorists or unfriendly (to the US) regimes.
If we do that and NORK does unleash a massive artilllery barrage on the South, no doubt thousands of US troops will be casualties (and perhaps hundreds of thousands of South Koreans) and it would thereafter be "game on" for us.
If you were Japanese would you just be sitting on your ass at this point and waiting for the US to disarm NK, or would you instead be (unofficially/secretly) obtaining, building and deploying nukes as quickly as possible?
I think the latter.
Same thing for SK.
Anything less would be sheer idiocy on their part.
| 419 |
avanti Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:36:29am |
Obama to scale back programs for America.
| 420 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:36:44am |
A thread on dodecaphony. Phi Zappa Krappa!
I tend to agree with Milan Kundera - twelve-tone music, apart from a few brilliant outliers, is to composition what communism is to society. Gray despair punctuated by orgies of hideous violence.
And as with communism, its defenders will mount the barricades to prove that it should be given just one more try, and then go home and plot each other's deaths for betraying the revolution.
But it's intellectual, and the people hate it, so there must be something to it!
There is: A misguided belief in "progress" and a denial of human nature.
| 421 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:37:46am |
re: #410 Killgore Trout
Hot Air linked to this....
Why Is the Right Doing So Well in Europe?For a start, they don't spend like drunken sailors.I think it's a little obtuse. The BNP certainly capitalized on spending scandals but they don't have a fiscally conservative agenda. Same with Geert, VB, FN, FPO or any of the other creeps. They're appeal is not about economics.
You are confusing two very different blocs in the recent European elections. The so-called "Right" which are conservative political parties, and the so-called "Extreme Right", such as BNP, Vlaams Belang and others.
The ordinary "Right" parties advocate fiscal responsibility. The Extreme Right advocate racism and xenophobic social & immigration policies, but their economic platforms are straight out of the Left & Labor parties. Most of the new voters for the BNP are disenchanted working class Brits. You are correct, their appeal is not on sound economics.
| 422 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:38:38am |
re: #418 Spare O'Lake
If you were Japanese would you just be sitting on your ass at this point and waiting for the US to disarm NK, or would you instead be (unofficially/secretly) obtaining, building and deploying nukes as quickly as possible?
I think the latter.
Same thing for SK.
Anything less would be sheer idiocy on their part.
I bet money Japan has all the components sitting on a shelf waiting final assembly. The have the know how and computer tech to be very confident the gadget works.
| 423 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:38:54am |
re: #417 Nevergiveup
United States President Barack Obama has presented to Egypt and Israel a plan for a two-state solution to be finalized within two years, the London-based A-Sharq al-Awsat reported on Tuesday.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Maybe someone should clue Obama into who lives on the West Bank and Gaze. It ain't Egyptians?
It's a good thing such an intelligent man like 0bama made this comment, imagine the media outrage had a dolt like Bush made the same mistake.///
| 424 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:39:55am |
re: #410 Killgore Trout
Hot Air linked to this....
Why Is the Right Doing So Well in Europe?For a start, they don't spend like drunken sailors.I think it's a little obtuse. The BNP certainly capitalized on spending scandals but they don't have a fiscally conservative agenda. Same with Geert, VB, FN, FPO or any of the other creeps. They're appeal is not about economics.
Ahem.
BNP and all the others you name are aprties of the far right.
The 'right' which has done well in these elections are for example the Tories here in the UK (who got a few more than two seats!), the governing parties in Germany, France, Italy - and the parties who stood against the new-labelled former communists in the Eastern European countries.
Subsuming all those parties in the same category as the BNP etc - that is going a bit far!
| 425 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:41:14am |
re: #416 jcm
Good morning jcm! Thanks for that bit! How are ya doing today?
| 426 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:41:28am |
re: #417 Nevergiveup
United States President Barack Obama has presented to Egypt and Israel a plan for a two-state solution to be finalized within two years, the London-based A-Sharq al-Awsat reported on Tuesday.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Maybe someone should clue Obama into who lives on the West Bank and Gaze. It ain't Egyptians?
Doesn't matter to PB0 - they're all Ayrabs, ain't they ...
| 427 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:41:32am |
re: #423 soxfan4life
It's a good thing such an intelligent man like 0bama made this comment, imagine the media outrage had a dolt like Bush made the same mistake.///
It's no mistake. He did talk to the Egyptians about it. Even he knows talking to the Palestinians is worthless. This is considered logical in the Middle East?
| 428 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:43:17am |
re: #422 jcm
I bet money Japan has all the components sitting on a shelf waiting final assembly. The have the know how and computer tech to be very confident the gadget works.
No delivery systems.
And having parts on a shelf is like keeping guns buried in your back yard: when the time comes to dig them up, it's too late.
| 429 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:43:27am |
OK. The worst of the storm seems to have passed. Did I miss anything?
| 430 |
lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:43:43am |
re: #416 jcm
That's something I've long noticed/suspected among my real life Lib friends/acquaintances. They simply refuse to listen to anything that doesn't conform to their pre-existing notions. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I find close-mindedness to be the rule.
| 431 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:43:48am |
re: #425 realwest
Good morning jcm! Thanks for that bit! How are ya doing today?
Grand! Another beautiful day in the great Northwet. Except I'm stuck in the lab. Have a dead precision power supply, and we've cut back our service contract so I get to troubleshoot and repair.
| 432 |
soxfan4life Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:44:08am |
re: #427 Nevergiveup
It's no mistake. He did talk to the Egyptians about it. Even he knows talking to the Palestinians is worthless. This is considered logical in the Middle East?
Somehow Egypt will have to be involved just like the agreement Carter made that led to Sadats assasination. But had Bush left out the Palestinians the media would have crucified him.
| 433 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:44:15am |
re: #417 Nevergiveup
United States President Barack Obama has presented to Egypt and Israel a plan for a two-state solution to be finalized within two years, the London-based A-Sharq al-Awsat reported on Tuesday.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
Maybe someone should clue Obama into who lives on the West Bank and Gaze. It ain't Egyptians?
There are 2 states. Israel and Egypt. It's a good plan that I agree with.
//
| 434 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:44:46am |
re: #424 yma o hyd
Subsuming all those parties in the same category as the BNP etc - that is going a bit far!
It's not only going too far, it's conceptually wrong.
Melanie Phillips: Why The BNP Won The British Over
Well, they were warned over and over again but they didn’t listen. This morning, the mainstream political parties are shocked by the unpalatable fact that, after the elections to the European Parliament Britain now has two British National Party MEPs. And as usual, the rending of garments by MPs over this development has far more to do with attempting to demonstrate their own unimpeachable anti-racist virtue than honestly facing up to the real cause of this debacle – themselves.
All the public demonstrations of conspicuous nose-holding by MPs and the media, along with the repeated invocation of anti-voodoo phrases such as ‘fascist’ and ‘far right’, serve to obscure one or two salient matters. These terms are misleading. The philosophical antecedents of the BNP lie not on the right but on the left.
| 435 |
Macker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:45:00am |
re: #428 Cato the Elder
No delivery systems.
And having parts on a shelf is like keeping guns buried in your back yard: when the time comes to dig them up, it's too late.
'Scuse me? You mean to tell me their F-15s and F-16s aren't capable of nuke delivery? What about their known satellite launch capability?
| 436 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:45:04am |
| 437 |
Macker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:45:48am |
re: #433 CommonCents
There are 2 states. Israel and Egypt. It's a good plan that I agree with.
//
Um...what about Jordan?
| 438 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:47:24am |
Mitchell: US and Israel 'remain close allies and friends'
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
Kinda reminds of when an owner of a Baseball Team announces to the Press the Manager has his complete confidence? Time for the Manager to start packing.
| 439 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:47:35am |
re: #437 Macker
Um...what about Jordan?
Fine then, a 3 state solution. I didn't want to bring the whole neighborhood into it.
| 440 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:48:10am |
Q: Anyone here know a reputable nursery (that ships) to purchase a Japanese Maple to plant this fall?
| 441 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:48:12am |
re: #430 lincolntf
That's something I've long noticed/suspected among my real life Lib friends/acquaintances. They simply refuse to listen to anything that doesn't conform to their pre-existing notions. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I find close-mindedness to be the rule.
Those on the left can't tolerate examination of their ideas, as the break down their core values, their world view challenged, and that can be very unsettling if you don't have a solid set of core values.
| 442 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:48:29am |
re: #437 Macker
Um...what about Jordan?
What do Jordan and Egypt have in common? Neither gives a rat's ass about the Palestinians.
| 443 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:48:34am |
re: #421 Kenneth
You are confusing two very different blocs in the recent European elections. The so-called "Right" which are conservative political parties, and the so-called "Extreme Right", such as BNP, Vlaams Belang and others.
Ah, thanks. European political terminology is different so it's easy to get confused.. The article didn't really mention specific examples so missed the difference between 'right" and "extreme right".
| 444 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:48:35am |
re: #422 jcm I wouldn't be surprised if they have all but two or three components already on the shelf. The Korens (North and South) and the Chinese truly HATE the Japanese for what the Japanese did to them during WWII - I seriously doubt the Japanese would wait for ANYONE'S HELP including ours.
| 445 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:48:49am |
re: #435 Macker
'Scuse me? You mean to tell me their F-15s and F-16s aren't capable of nuke delivery? What about their known satellite launch capability?
No tested delivery systems.
And my point about bits in a bin stands. "Uh, don't worry, we've got sekrit nukes, it'll just take me 72 hours to assemble them, and, umm, they've never been tried, but what could go wrong? Feel safe. Fail safe. Uh, whatever."
| 446 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:49:03am |
re: #442 Nevergiveup
What do Jordan and Egypt have in common? Neither gives a rat's ass about the Palestinians.
You can say the same about the 55 other Islamic states.
| 447 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:49:05am |
re: #438 Nevergiveup
Mitchell: US and Israel 'remain close allies and friends'
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
Kinda reminds of when an owner of a Baseball Team announces to the Press the Manager has his complete confidence? Time for the Manager to start packing.
He's upset that the Palestinians refuse to meet with the Israelis until they give in to demands to stop all "settlement" construction. And this was just after he asked nicely and went to the Mideast. Makes him look bad, so he has to say nice things about the Israelis, and stab them in the back later.
| 448 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:49:06am |
re: #436 Ford_Prefect
lol. Was that intentional or a typo?
Intentional, up here that's one of the nick names of the region.
| 449 |
avanti Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:49:15am |
re: #437 Macker
Um...what about Jordan?
Egypt can be a broker between both sides since they are at peace with Israel. It's not unusual to use Egypt as a intermediary.
| 450 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:49:33am |
re: #433 CommonCents
There are 2 states. Israel and Egypt. It's a good plan that I agree with.
//
Apparently the world seems to favor Balkanization these days, without caring about the repercussions, or the fact that one of the groups seeking their own state is nothing more than a terrorist regime that doesn't even bother dressing the part of diplomats (well, to be fair, the Hamas thugs are the only honest ones in the bunch - their intentions are spelled out perfectly clear and Israel's existence isn't part of 'em).
| 451 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:49:57am |
| 452 |
MJ Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:50:11am |
re: #438 Nevergiveup
Mitchell: US and Israel 'remain close allies and friends'
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
Kinda reminds of when an owner of a Baseball Team announces to the Press the Manager has his complete confidence? Time for the Manager to start packing.
Israel is an ally of the US.
The reverse is no longer true.
| 453 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:50:56am |
re: #449 avanti
Egypt can be a broker between both sides since they are at peace with Israel. It's not unusual to use Egypt as a intermediary.
Jordan's at peace with israel also?
| 454 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:11am |
re: #428 Cato the Elder
Japan won't wait till they are hit before building their nukes. They will start well in advance, which means anytime now. Japan does not have any ballistic missiles or bombers,. but they do have strike fighters which could deliver a small well designed a-bomb.
| 456 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:28am |
re: #410 Killgore Trout
Hot Air linked to this....
Why Is the Right Doing So Well in Europe?For a start, they don't spend like drunken sailors.I think it's a little obtuse. The BNP certainly capitalized on spending scandals but they don't have a fiscally conservative agenda. Same with Geert, VB, FN, FPO or any of the other creeps. They're appeal is not about economics.
Rush was cheering for Geert yesterday, saying, "If you vote against socialism and favor secure borders, they'll call you an extemist, just like here!" [Slight paraphrasing, can't find link.] I'm calling it "DHS Memo Derangement Syndrome."
| 457 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:32am |
re: #445 Cato the Elder
No tested delivery systems.
And my point about bits in a bin stands. "Uh, don't worry, we've got sekrit nukes, it'll just take me 72 hours to assemble them, and, umm, they've never been tried, but what could go wrong? Feel safe. Fail safe. Uh, whatever."
Extensive testing and computer modeling. You can test everything including the primary. At that point with a robust design, modeling the hydrocodes of the primary's effect on the secondary there would be little doubt the gadget would work.
| 458 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:33am |
re: #453 Nevergiveup
Jordan signed a peace deal with Israel in 1994.
| 460 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:43am |
re: #434 Kenneth
The philosophical antecedents of the BNP lie not on the right but on the left.
Ugh. Not that one again. I know it's a popular sentiment to pass the fascists off as left wing but it's simply not true.
| 461 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:49am |
re: #445 Cato the Elder
No tested delivery systems.
And my point about bits in a bin stands. "Uh, don't worry, we've got sekrit nukes, it'll just take me 72 hours to assemble them, and, umm, they've never been tried, but what could go wrong? Feel safe. Fail safe. Uh, whatever."
Dollars to donuts they are assembling and testing them as we speak, if they haven't already done so. And the SK's too.
| 462 |
LGoPs Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:51:54am |
re: #441 jcm
Those on the left can't tolerate examination of their ideas, as the break down their core values, their world view challenged, and that can be very unsettling if you don't have a solid set of core values.
That trait is one they share with fundamental Islam. In Saudi Arabia, the mere mention of any religion other than Islam can get you in serious trouble. It used to make me wonder how deep their faith ran if the mention of any other belief was considered so threatening.
| 463 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:52:02am |
| 464 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:52:31am |
re: #445 Cato the Elder
No tested delivery systems.
And my point about bits in a bin stands. "Uh, don't worry, we've got sekrit nukes, it'll just take me 72 hours to assemble them, and, umm, they've never been tried, but what could go wrong? Feel safe. Fail safe. Uh, whatever."
Neither do the North Koreans, actually. I'm not sure they could fit their device into a launcher, even if they are threatening to go nuclear:
N. Korea threatens nuclear offensive
North Korea said Tuesday it would use nuclear weapons in a "merciless offensive" if provoked - its latest rhetoric apparently aimed at deterring any international punishment for its recent atomic test blast.
I doubt they have enough for a "merciless offensive", but their conventional artillery would be quite bad.
I'm coming close to suggesting a pre-emptive strike on their artillery, with bunker busters, and loitering aircraft ready to take out anything that sticks its head out.
| 465 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:52:47am |
re: #443 Killgore Trout
Read Mellanie Phillips' piece on the elections. Very insightful.
| 466 |
Macker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:52:47am |
re: #458 lawhawk
Unfortunately, Abdullah is not like his old man.
| 467 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:52:53am |
re: #422 jcm
re: #428 Cato the Elder
re: #454 Kenneth
Japan won't wait till they are hit before building their nukes. They will start well in advance, which means anytime now. Japan does not have any ballistic missiles or bombers,. but they do have strike fighters which could deliver a small well designed a-bomb.
Japan would 1st have to amend their constitution, which prevents tham at this pint from building nuke weapons
| 468 |
CommonCents Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:53:04am |
re: #450 lawhawk
Apparently the world seems to favor Balkanization these days, without caring about the repercussions, or the fact that one of the groups seeking their own state is nothing more than a terrorist regime that doesn't even bother dressing the part of diplomats (well, to be fair, the Hamas thugs are the only honest ones in the bunch - their intentions are spelled out perfectly clear and Israel's existence isn't part of 'em).
Using that same Balkanization logic, should we give North Dakota to the Indians? Deerborn, MI to the Syrians and Iraqis? Let New Mexico become the New Republic of Mexico? Minnesota can become Western Finland?
We would hardly stand for any of that. It's hypocrisy all over again.
| 469 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:53:14am |
re: #428 Cato the Elder
No delivery systems.
And having parts on a shelf is like keeping guns buried in your back yard: when the time comes to dig them up, it's too late.
Good morning Cato! Um, how sure are you that they don't have delivery systems? They didn't have any ABM systems either until we "sold" them the Aegis and Patriot systems under Bush. Who knows what else they may have been sold? And they DO have an Air Force (not faulting you, as most of us tend to think of nuke delivery systems as only missiles).
| 470 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:53:52am |
re: #456 wrenchwench
Rush was cheering for Geert yesterday
That's a real bummer. There is a serious danger that European far right ideas could infect us here in the states. That's a very bad thing.
| 471 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:53:56am |
re: #429 Ford_Prefect
Nope, you didn't miss much of anything and nothing really new, either!
| 472 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:54:06am |
re: #456 wrenchwench
Rush was cheering for Geert yesterday, saying, "If you vote against socialism and favor secure borders, they'll call you an extemist, just like here!" [Slight paraphrasing, can't find link.] I'm calling it "DHS Memo Derangement Syndrome."
Rush has jumped the shark. The extreme right in Europe are not fiscal conservatives at all. Their economic policies are protectionist and their social policies are racist.
| 473 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:54:37am |
re: #454 Kenneth
Japan won't wait till they are hit before building their nukes. They will start well in advance, which means anytime now. Japan does not have any ballistic missiles or bombers,. but they do have strike fighters which could deliver a small well designed a-bomb.
They do have missiles, up to the H-IIa which launches satellites (overkill for getting North Korea.)
While they haven't tested the combination, they could put them together quickly, and have reasonable confidence they'd work.
| 474 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:55:26am |
| 475 |
Macker Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:55:36am |
re: #472 Kenneth
Rush has
jumped the sharknuked the fridge. The extreme right in Europe are not fiscal conservatives at all. Their economic policies are protectionist and their social policies are racist.
That phrase is so 80s-ish. That's why I fixed that for ya!
| 476 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:57:13am |
re: #469 realwest
Japan also has cruise missile technology. The US Tomohawk systems have both conventional and nuclear warhead technologies. Given that the Japanese have various platforms from which to launch cruise missiles, it's quite capable of firing on targets all over North Korea with precision.
| 477 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:58:30am |
re: #442 Nevergiveup
What do Jordan and Egypt have in common? Neither gives a rat's ass about the Palestinians.
Au contraire my friend. Egypt and Jordan threw the Palestinians out of thier respective countries as quickly as they possibly could. Indeed, the new "King" of the new Kingdom of Jordan put together the Jordanian Foreign Legion (consisting of Arabs from all over the ME) to throw out OR KILL the Palestinians in Jordan.
That's what they have in common!
| 478 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:58:50am |
| 480 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:59:19am |
re: #434 Kenneth
Indeed - and so say other commentators (I put a few in the spin-off links) in other papers.
You ought to read the comments even, or especially, on the LLL Grauniad - their scorn for NuLab who allowed this to happen is corruscating. Its ongoing, and quite astonishing: the people (so 'beloved' by the LLL elites) get it - the apologists for NuLab don't ...
(Nor are those getting it who look only at the fact that two seats were won here in the UK, without looking at why that happened ...)
| 481 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:59:21am |
re: #465 Kenneth
She has some points but it would have been a much better article without the twisting of the left/right politics thing. It does make me doubt some of her other points.
| 483 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 7:59:42am |
re: #477 realwest
Au contraire my friend. Egypt and Jordan threw the Palestinians out of thier respective countries as quickly as they possibly could. Indeed, the new "King" of the new Kingdom of Jordan put together the Jordanian Foreign Legion (consisting of Arabs from all over the ME) to throw out OR KILL the Palestinians in Jordan.
That's what they have in common!
It's a given everyone hates the Palestinians. I mean how many people have rats for house pets?
| 484 |
John Neverbend Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:02:07am |
re: #434 Kenneth
A truly fine article. I'm only sorry that Ms. Phillips doesn't show the same clear thinking when it comes to discussing modern science.
I seriously doubt if the root causes of the BNP's success will be addressed,as they appear to stem from a sickness that affects all of the main political parties.
| 485 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:03:10am |
| 486 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:03:15am |
re: #483 Nevergiveup
I mean how many people have rats for house pets?
You asked.
A half a million households in the U.S. own pet rats or mice
| 487 |
justabill Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:03:24am |
| 488 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:03:29am |
Japan also has cruise missile technology. The US Tomohawk systems have both conventional and nuclear warhead technologies. Given that the Japanese have various platforms from which to launch cruise missiles,it's quite capable of firing on targets all over North Korea with precision.
The last part of that is incorrect.
While they do have platforms to launch cruise missiles, they only have anti-ship variants, not land attack versions.
| 489 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:03:33am |
re: #443 Killgore Trout
Ah, thanks. European political terminology is different so it's easy to get confused.. The article didn't really mention specific examples so missed the difference between 'right" and "extreme right".
Sorry, KT - won't wash.
It says in the article you linked:
'In France, Germany, Italy, and Poland—four of Europe's six largest countries—center-right governments got unexpectedly enthusiastic endorsements.'
I really don't think you couldn't distinguish between 'center-right' and the BNP (far, extreme right or fascists) ...
| 490 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:03:59am |
re: #486 Ford_Prefect
You asked.
A half a million households in the U.S. own pet rats or mice
OK, but I could have lived out the rest of my days with out knowing that?
/
| 491 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:04:20am |
re: #461 Spare O'Lake
Dollars to donuts they are assembling and testing them as we speak, if they haven't already done so. And the SK's too.
Chinese doughnuts? Probably worth more than dollars, at this point.
I'd rather have euros, please.
But the North's weapons to fear, as pointed out above, are its tens of thousands of conventional rockets primed, locked, loaded and aimed on hair-trigger alert at every town and village in SK. No preemptive strike, nuclear or otherwise, can take enough of them out to avoid mass death in SK of Koreans and US personnel. So the whole "we've got nukes" thing is moot. It's just their way of trying to win concessions to prop up a dying regime.
And die it will, within a week of Dear Leader's death and Cute Leader's assassination by members of the household guard. The designated successor is a boy in his mid twenties! Kim-chi to bimbim-bap says he won't last a day.
The North Korean crisis will be resolved by one man's death. The Dalai Lama has a greater chance of regaining power in Tibet than the Kim family has of retaining it in Pyongyang.
| 492 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:04:45am |
re: #464 Kosh's Shadow
Uh, waaay back in the day, the US Army had big artillery pieces designed to fire atomic warhead rounds. Think we gave it up when we discovered we didn't have artillery that could shoot far enough so that the resulting blast wouldn't get us too. But I wouldn't be surprised if NORK had artillery pieces big enough and wasn't thinking about using nuke warheads fired from artillery pieces.
| 493 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:05:10am |
re: #478 negativ
Good piece.
A commitment to free speech and the free marketplace of ideas compels us to recognize that people should be able to have differing views on ethical matters without being held responsible when someone "on their side" takes those views and decides to act on them in a way that they would absolutely not endorse. It's imperative that we make this distinction, because otherwise we can't discuss the possible rightness and wrongness of things without people's beliefs being treated as actions-- without thoughts themselves becoming crimes.
| 494 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:05:17am |
| 495 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:06:13am |
re: #492 realwest
Uh, waaay back in the day, the US Army had big artillery pieces designed to fire atomic warhead rounds. Think we gave it up when we discovered we didn't have artillery that could shoot far enough so that the resulting blast wouldn't get us too. But I wouldn't be surprised if NORK had artillery pieces big enough and wasn't thinking about using nuke warheads fired from artillery pieces.
They probably would use nuclear artillery, but we had trouble making one small enough (and rugged enough); I doubt the Norks are even close. I'd be surprised if they currently had a deliverable weapon by any mechanism they have (other than container ship into a port).
| 496 |
Ben Hur Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:06:21am |
The city's mosques are packed, including the huge King Fahd Mosque and cultural center, which Saudi Arabia built in 2000 — at a cost of about $12 million — and still maintains.
Wahabbi Kemosabe.
On the march.
| 497 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:06:23am |
re: #483 Nevergiveup
It's a given everyone hates the Palestinians. I mean how many people have rats for house pets?
No, you are wrong.
Most Israelis do not hate them.
They want to live in peace with them.
It is their fellow Arabs who have repeatedly betrayed and used them.
| 498 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:07:54am |
re: #476 lawhawk
Ah, good point my friend. But as has been mentioned before, Japan would have to amend it's constitution and I think IF they did amend it, that would perhaps be detterent enough.
| 499 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:08:04am |
re: #460 Killgore Trout
Ugh. Not that one again. I know it's a popular sentiment to pass the fascists off as left wing but it's simply not true.
You misunderstand Phillips' essay. The BNP today has a protectionist economic policy that's right out of the old, pre-NuLab Left. That is the first point Phillips was making. The second point Phillips was making is that the BNP were exploiting the reaction against the politically correct multi-culturalism of the socialist establishement.
| 500 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:09:19am |
re: #488 rightside
Technically true, but a software adjustment and those missiles are capable of hitting land targets just as easily.
| 501 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:09:29am |
re: #497 Spare O'Lake
No, you are wrong.
Most Israelis do not hate them.
They want to live in peace with them.
It is their fellow Arabs who have repeatedly betrayed and used them.
Maybe years ago but many Israelis that I know are rapidly loosing Patience with the Palestinians. And anyway i was talking about the Arabs.
| 502 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:09:47am |
re: #489 yma o hyd
I misunderstood the article. That was sorted out upthread.
| 503 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:10:09am |
re: #481 Killgore Trout
You are stuck on a misunderstanding of her arguments.
| 504 |
rightside Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:10:31am |
re: #500 lawhawk
The Japanese do not have tomahawk missiles. Harpoon cannot be configured for land attack. Period.
| 505 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:10:32am |
re: #483 Nevergiveup
Probably only people who live with their parents at age 30, stay in the basement with their computers and have White rats in cages. Ok, maybe some Grey ones too!
| 507 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:12:02am |
| 508 |
jvic Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:12:04am |
re: #368 quickjustice
I'm always optimistic. The future can change overnight, for better or worse. I believe freedom, liberty, and democracy win in the long run.
I agree about the long run. The next decade or few could be iffy.
...The Chinese people understand freedom and democracy. The communist party leadership panicked, and ordered the military to murder the protesters. It is a crime in China today to speak of the massacre at Tiananmen.This means the leaders of the communist party still are afraid of our ideals.
Heck, even the leaders of the Democratic and Republican Parties are afraid of our ideals. Look at what the multiculti left and theocratic right do to the education system.
Whatever happens to our economy, America's ideals already have won in China. The Chinese people, carrying America's ideals with them, will triumph in time.
Probably true, although they might relabel the ideas (sic) and act like they thought of them.
But will America maintain American ideals? Will most of us even remember them? "A republic...if you can keep it." As a pessimist by temperament but an optimist by intellect, I answer 'yes' and 'yes'--but things may get significantly worse before we start to recover.
| 509 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:12:47am |
Another biden gaffe. he's such a boob. Apart from that, I'll be curious to see how much this "$8.7 billion" project ends up actually costing by the time it's completed. Bidding starts at $15 billion.
| 510 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:12:58am |
Here is another comment about the election of two BNP members:
European elections 2009: How Labour let the BNP flex its muscles
From that link:
'Its success is a direct result of the failure of mainstream parties, notably Labour, which traditionally represents the areas where the BNP is strongest. White, working-class voters in the North and elsewhere feel they have been abandoned: they feel discriminated against, their children perform worst in school, they believe immigrants are taking their jobs and that no one takes any notice of them.'
Labour's vote in those two constituencies collapsed - thats why and how the BNP got in - oh, and the electoral system of proportional representation, so beloved by the LLL, had something to do with it as well.
| 511 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:13:35am |
BNP leader pelted in egg protest
With video.
| 512 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:13:42am |
re: #509 Lincolntf
Another biden gaffe. he's such a boob. Apart from that, I'll be curious to see how much this "$8.7 billion" project ends up actually costing by the time it's completed. Bidding starts at $15 billion.
Oops, made my own gaffe.
| 513 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:13:54am |
re: #496 Ben Hur
Wahabbi Kemosabe.
On the march.
Imagine that. You ethnically cleanse the formerly mixed and relatively peaceful sub-units of what was Yugoslavia, and people close ranks and revert to their ancestral beliefs.
Seen what's going on in the Jew-hating Serbian Orthodox Chetnik respubliki lately?
| 514 |
opnion Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:14:03am |
re: #496 Ben Hur
Wahabbi Kemosabe.On the march.
I recall alol of the assurances that Bosnias Muslims were moderate & were more European than muslim.A militant Islamic state in the middle of Europe would not be a good thing.
| 515 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:14:23am |
re: #486 Ford_Prefect
ROTFLMAO! ONLY on LGF could one find a reference like that!
Great work and further proves my point up in #299!
| 516 |
avanti Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:15:00am |
re: #453 Nevergiveup
Jordan's at peace with israel also?
No, but Jordan and the rest of the Arab world is part of any possible two state solution.
| 517 |
JohnnyReb Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:15:08am |
re: #498 realwest
Ah, good point my friend. But as has been mentioned before, Japan would have to amend it's constitution and I think IF they did amend it, that would perhaps be detterent enough.
I am unclear on why they would have to amend their constitution. Where does it say they can't have Nukes? That Non nuclear thing they wrote in 67 was never adopted as law.
There is a part about not being able to use force to solve international problems.
| 518 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:15:57am |
re: #516 avanti
No, but Jordan and the rest of the Arab world is part of any possible two state solution.
No Jordan's not at peace with Israel? What are you talking about? Of course they are.
| 519 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:16:28am |
re: #516 avanti
No, but Jordan and the rest of the Arab world is part of any possible two state solution.
Last I checked, Jordan is indeed at peace with Israel. King Abdullah has every reason to want it kept that way, or it'll be his fat little head on a Hamas platter.
| 520 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:16:44am |
re: #515 realwest
ROTFLMAO! ONLY on LGF could one find a reference like that!
Great work and further proves my point up in #299!
The internet is a wonderful thing. Thank G*d Algore invented it.
/
| 521 |
Ben Hur Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:17:45am |
re: #514 opnion
I recall alol of the assurances that Bosnias Muslims were moderate & were more European than muslim.A militant Islamic state in the middle of Europe would not be a good thing.
They were/are, from what I understand.
But Saudi Wahabbi money/education/influence will probably change that over time.
| 522 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:19:38am |
re: #504 rightside
I didn't say the Japanese had Tomahawks. I was addressing the point made above about nuclear delivery systems being by ballistic missile, while ignoring other delivery means, including aircraft, and cruise missile - and referenced the US Tomahawk system, which has nuclear and non-nuclear variants.
| 523 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:19:44am |
re: #494 Cato the Elder
Ah, yes, probably the most likely scenario and may not take the death of Lil Kim to do it.
However, on one point I disagree - IF the US wanted to, it has the ability to take out about 75% of the NORK artillery pieces (those that are not behind blast doors) and we do know exactly where they are and have for quite a while. Still and all we are talking of tens of thousands of casualties, including American troops. Wonder what would Obama do if Lil Kim gives an order to fire before his military (or bodyguards) get to him first?
| 524 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:19:52am |
re: #511 Killgore Trout
BNP leader pelted in egg protest
With video.
Why are they protesting eggs?
/
| 525 |
opnion Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:20:09am |
re: #521 Ben Hur
They were/are, from what I understand.
But Saudi Wahabbi money/education/influence will probably change that over time.
But the Saudis are our friends. The king even gave Obama some serious bling.
| 526 |
avanti Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:20:18am |
re: #518 Nevergiveup
No Jordan's not at peace with Israel? What are you talking about? Of course they are.
True, but not formally at peace with any agreements, unlike Egypt.
| 527 |
aboo-Hoo-Hoo Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:20:21am |
Japan does have a missile program and when Japanese officials start talking offensive systems & preemption without a ground-swell of public dissent, there's new dynamic not only on the part of the government but, quite obviously, its citizens as well.
| 528 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:20:25am |
re: #502 Killgore Trout
Several of the Eastern European neo-facist parties grew out of or split off from the former Communist parties. The Serbian Radical Party led by Vojislav Šešelj was formed in 1990 as a coalition of the Chetnik movement (descended from the WWII AXIS Fascists) and various disaffected communists, nationalists and socialists. There is considerable cross-over appeal among the rank and file members of the old-guard communists.
| 529 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:20:36am |
re: #524 KenJen
Why are they protesting eggs?
/
They just received their cholesteral screening results
| 530 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:20:47am |
re: #511 Killgore Trout
BNP leader pelted in egg protest
With video.
So do we now cheer for the hooligans who did this, ebcause its against a Neonazi?
Isn't this actually the dreaded 'mob rule' the LLL have been warnig everybody against?
Is this how we now deal with elected representatives?
What about using debate to show exactly what thugs the BNP people are?
What about tearing theira rguments to pieces, in the politest way possible?
And above all - what does this say to all those who misguidedly voted for them? It tells them that the LLL elites still don't get it, it tells them that their voices still don't count.
Great way of winning back those voters!
| 531 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:21:05am |
| 532 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:21:27am |
re: #520 Ford_Prefect
The internet is a wonderful thing. Thank G*d Algore invented it.
/
While there are many things to reasonably make fun of Al Gore, that isn't one of them. But the election kiss... now that was too funny!
| 533 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:21:42am |
| 534 |
Honorary Yooper Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:22:06am |
re: #510 yma o hyd
From reading the information regarding the BNP and Labour, I conclude that Labour seems to have majorly fucked up.
| 535 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:22:14am |
| 536 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:22:28am |
re: #526 avanti
True, but not formally at peace with any agreements, unlike Egypt.
Avanti they sure are. I don't know what you are talking about. They signed a peace treaty in 1994 down by Elat with Rabin, Hussein, and Clinton present. Have you been drinking the AM?
| 537 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:22:34am |
re: #524 KenJen
Someone was mixing brown and white eggs in the same carton.
| 538 |
Ben Hur Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:22:44am |
re: #526 avanti
True, but not formally at peace with any agreements, unlike Egypt.
Israel and Jordan signed a peace treaty in the 90s.
Where do you think all of Israel's textile jobs went?
| 539 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:23:52am |
| 540 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:24:27am |
| 541 |
avanti Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:24:29am |
re: #536 Nevergiveup
Avanti they sure are. I don't know what you are talking about. They signed a peace treaty in 1994 down by Elat with Rabin, Hussein, and Clinton present. Have you been drinking the AM?
No, just ignorant. I had forgotten that peace deal, sorry.
| 542 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:24:46am |
TREATY OF PEACE
BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
October 26, 1994
[Link: www.mfa.gov.il...]
Here Avanti, before you talk about Middle East Politics and Policy, read up OK.
| 543 |
Killian Bundy Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:24:55am |
re: #526 avanti
Fiat Will ‘Never’ Walk Away From Chrysler, CEO Says (Update1)
Fiat SpA will “never” walk away from its deal with Chrysler LLC, Fiat Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne said in an interview.
“We should just be patient and let the system work,” Marchionne said by telephone today moments after Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg ordered a delay of Chrysler’s planned sale to the Italian carmaker while the U.S. Supreme Court considers a request for a longer postponement that might scuttle the deal.
A federal appeals court in New York last week allowed the sale, while putting its decision on hold until 4 p.m. today to let opponents, including Indiana pension funds, seek Supreme Court intervention. The Indiana pension funds hold $42.5 million of $6.9 billion in Chrysler’s secured loans.
“We would never walk away,” Marchionne said in response to a question about whether Fiat would pull out of the deal if it isn’t completed by the June 15 deadline. “Never.”
/FYI
| 544 |
Ojoe Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:24:57am |
Today's morning view of the San Gabriel Mountains of California:
| 545 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:25:14am |
| 546 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:25:40am |
re: #543 Killian Bundy
Fiat Will ‘Never’ Walk Away From Chrysler, CEO Says (Update1)
/FYI
At least until it breaks down on the side of the road.
| 547 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:25:54am |
re: #534 Honorary Yooper
From reading the information regarding the BNP and Labour, I conclude that Labour seems to have majorly fucked up.
They have indeed - and are blithely continuing down the path to toal annihilation.
Its the same old spin, with the 'spin meister' now actually running things for Gord, as unelected Member of the House of Lords.
It shows how bereft NuLab is that Gord has now 8 people in his cabinet who are not elected MPs, but Lords, having been ennobled by NuLab previously.
These people don't even ahve a constituency - they cannot be held to democratic account.
Thats NuLab - or should I say, NeoStalinists in government ...
| 548 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:26:03am |
re: #541 avanti
re: #542 Nevergiveup
TREATY OF PEACE
BETWEEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL AND THE HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN
October 26, 1994[Link: www.mfa.gov.il...]
Here Avanti, before you
talk about Middle EastPolitics and Policy, read up OK.
ftfy
| 549 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:26:13am |
re: #524 KenJen
Why are they protesting eggs?
/
They are upset at these fascists poaching votes off the mainstream parties. They won't coddle them anymore lest the entire political scene will end up scrambled. This will require a hard-boiled approach, it will take time and it won't be over easy.
| 550 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:26:25am |
re: #523 realwest
Ah, yes, probably the most likely scenario and may not take the death of Lil Kim to do it.
However, on one point I disagree - IF the US wanted to, it has the ability to take out about 75% of the NORK artillery pieces (those that are not behind blast doors) and we do know exactly where they are and have for quite a while. Still and all we are talking of tens of thousands of casualties, including American troops. Wonder what would Obama do if Lil Kim gives an order to fire before his military (or bodyguards) get to him first?
There is one other thing to be considered. When Hitler was trembling away in his bunker, a lot of his orders were disobeyed or tacitly ignored. Paris did not burn. The scorched earth in Germany was from the Russians, not the grand suicide of das deutsche Volk that Hitler dreamed of as his last apocolyptogasm.
It is one thing to keep the dying dictator happy with kidnapped American women and primitive nuclear tests. It is another thing to order a strike that will result in massive retaliation against your entire country.
In short, I doubt such an order would be carried out.
| 551 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:26:54am |
| 552 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:27:03am |
| 553 |
J.S. Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:27:11am |
re: #510 yma o hyd
I've read that another factor which contributed to the BNP "win" was the very low voter turnout...if too many mainstream voters are too apathetic to go to the polls, than an energized extremist wing (even when comprising a relatively small number) can gain an advantage...
| 554 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:27:14am |
re: #530 yma o hyd
So do we now cheer for the hooligans who did this, ebcause its against a Neonazi?
That's a tough call. I always condemn stuff like this, it creates a security problem and it is in opposition to free speech (disrupting someone's press conference). However, the BNP is so terrible that I'm on the fence with this one. If Mullah Omar had been routinely pelted with eggs while giving his speeches supporting terrorism I would have considered that a natural and healthy response to his extremism. There's a line there somewhere, not sure exactly where it is.
| 555 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:27:31am |
re: #551 Ford_Prefect
We just keep hatching new ones, but some just seem to lay there.
They're just chicken
| 556 |
Cato the Elder Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:27:49am |
re: #543 Killian Bundy
Fiat Will ‘Never’ Walk Away From Chrysler, CEO Says (Update1)
/FYI
It would be to their advantage if they did. Even the great German pimp Daimler-Benz couldn't absorb the fat old Chrysler whore.
| 557 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:27:54am |
re: #517 JohnnyReb
"There is a part about not being able to use force to solve international problems" which would include (how could it not?) development of nukes and delivery systems.
| 558 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:28:22am |
| 559 |
avanti Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:28:52am |
| 560 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:29:38am |
re: #557 realwest
"There is a part about not being able to use force to solve international problems" which would include (how could it not?) development of nukes and delivery systems.
Self Defense. Nuclear Deterrence.
| 561 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:29:38am |
re: #492 realwest
Uh, waaay back in the day, the US Army had big artillery pieces designed to fire atomic warhead rounds. Think we gave it up when we discovered we didn't have artillery that could shoot far enough so that the resulting blast wouldn't get us too. But I wouldn't be surprised if NORK had artillery pieces big enough and wasn't thinking about using nuke warheads fired from artillery pieces.
Live fire test of 280mm nuclear artillery.
Longer video showing transporters etc....
| 562 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:29:43am |
re: #525 opnion
Good morning opnion! Aw come on, it wasn't that serious bling! LOL!
| 563 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:29:59am |
re: #554 Killgore Trout
That's a tough call. I always condemn stuff like this, it creates a security problem and it is in opposition to free speech (disrupting someone's press conference). However, the BNP is so terrible that I'm on the fence with this one. If Mullah Omar had been routinely pelted with eggs while giving his speeches supporting terrorism I would have considered that a natural and healthy response to his extremism. There's a line there somewhere, not sure exactly where it is.
Not a tough call at all. There can be loud healthy protests making points without egg tossing, which is a form of assault and battery.
The same number of people showing up with placards and chanting NAZIS SUCK, or whatever, serves the purpose, imho
| 564 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:30:38am |
| 565 |
JohnnyReb Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:30:47am |
re: #557 realwest
"There is a part about not being able to use force to solve international problems" which would include (how could it not?) development of nukes and delivery systems.
The same way they have the most advanced Air Force and Navy in the region. It would be just called "self defense" force use, just like everything else they have that is primarily offensive in nature.
| 566 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:31:16am |
| 567 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:31:55am |
16:37 Body found in Jerusalem`s Church of Holy Sepulcher; natural causes likely (Haaertz)
It wasn't 2009 years old was it?
| 569 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:32:08am |
| 570 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:32:24am |
re: #566 Ford_Prefect
Ha! I'm raven about that one.
Thats a good one. I can't wait for the nest one!
| 571 |
LGoPs Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:33:35am |
| 572 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:33:40am |
| 573 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:34:09am |
re: #543 Killian Bundy
Fiat Will ‘Never’ Walk Away From Chrysler, CEO Says (Update1)
/FYI
But they'll walk away from the customers when tney need warranty service.
| 574 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:34:10am |
re: #570 sattv4u2
Thats a good one. I can't wait for the nest one!
Man, these puns are getting stuck in my craw.
| 575 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:34:24am |
re: #550 Cato the Elder
There is one other thing to be considered. When Hitler was trembling away in his bunker, a lot of his orders were disobeyed or tacitly ignored. Paris did not burn. The scorched earth in Germany was from the Russians, not the grand suicide of das deutsche Volk that Hitler dreamed of as his last apocolyptogasm.
It is one thing to keep the dying dictator happy with kidnapped American women and primitive nuclear tests. It is another thing to order a strike that will result in massive retaliation against your entire country.
In short, I doubt such an order would be carried out.
Given what I've read of the level of mind control in the North, the absolute belief they are the victims of S. Korea and the US. I believe the N. Korean Army would obey any and all orders, and fight down to a remnant, the type of commitment the Japanese troops on Okinawa showed.
| 576 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:34:26am |
Nick Griffin abandons BNP press conference under hail of eggs
The BNP leader Nick Griffin was forced to abandon a press conference outside parliament today after protesters pelted him with eggs.
The demonstrators shouted "Off our streets, Nazi scum" and chased him down the street to his car.
Griffin, who was elected an MEP for north-west England on Sunday, was bundled into his car by his bodyguards and quickly drove off.
Having arrived for the press conference, on College Green in front of parliament, just after 2.30pm with fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons, he began by attacking articles from today's newspapers criticising him and his party.
He had been speaking for only a few minutes when the protesters appeared, chanting and waving banners reading "Stop the fascist BNP".
| 577 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:35:03am |
| 578 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:35:16am |
| 579 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:35:35am |
| 580 |
Ben Hur Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:35:38am |
re: #576 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Nick Griffin abandons BNP press conference under hail of eggs
I wonder how many of those highly motivated protestors actually got off their asses and voted.
| 581 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:35:42am |
re: #553 J.S.
I've read that another factor which contributed to the BNP "win" was the very low voter turnout...if too many mainstream voters are too apathetic to go to the polls, than an energized extremist wing (even when comprising a relatively small number) can gain an advantage...
This is true - but especially the Labour party seems not to ahve campaigned properly.
Here in Wales, where the Tories won the majority of votes for the first time in nearly 100 years, Labour, the main party, was utterly absent.
No leaflets, no letters, nothing.
Labour activists here have blamed our top Labour leaders for thsi fiasco - they said not one of the MPs, secretary of state, or indeed the First minister, turned up anywhere.
I think the state of the Labour party in the countrya s a whole (as opposed to the aprliamentary Labour party, which are the MPs) is in meltdown.
| 582 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:36:04am |
re: #577 Ford_Prefect
Hmm. Having egrets?
Well, it's not like I'm going to talon anyone for the bad puns.
| 583 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:36:16am |
| 584 |
Dianna Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:36:44am |
re: #576 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
I'm torn. I don't like the BNP, but I believe the best way to handle repugnant speech is better speech. I don't like the throwing of eggs and assault.
| 585 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:37:07am |
re: #580 Ben Hur
I wonder how many of those highly motivated protestors actually got off their asses and voted.
What ,, and take a day off from their soccer hooliganism!?!?!
//
| 586 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:37:12am |
re: #582 MrSilverDragon
Well, it's not like I'm going to talon anyone for the bad puns.
Owl I can say is that heron lgf there are some real loons.
| 587 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:38:40am |
re: #586 Ford_Prefect
Some of them are ready for the nut hatch.
| 588 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:38:57am |
re: #527 aboo-Hoo-Hoo
Japan does have a missile program and when Japanese officials start talking offensive systems & preemption without a ground-swell of public dissent, there's new dynamic not only on the part of the government but, quite obviously, its citizens as well.
Well having NORK missiles flying over your country can provoke that sort of response. What I found most interesting in your link was the idea that it is no longer "taboo" to talk publically about Japan assuming a "normal" (meaning offensive, as well as defensive) military.
Good comment and excellent links my friend!
| 589 |
Dianna Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:39:08am |
re: #585 sattv4u2
What ,, and take a day off from their soccer hooliganism!?!?!
//
Those were Griffin's supporters, Satt.
| 590 |
justabill Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:39:15am |
re: #567 Nevergiveup
16:37 Body found in Jerusalem`s Church of Holy Sepulcher; natural causes likely (Haaertz)
It wasn't 2009 years old was it?
If your talking about who I think your talking about, it would be closer to 2012 years old. If memory serves Jesus was born around 3BC. Truly a man ahead of his time...
| 591 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:39:15am |
re: #582 MrSilverDragon
Well, it's not like I'm going to talon anyone for the bad puns.
Spur them on, I say.
| 592 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:40:01am |
re: #589 Dianna
Those were Griffin's supporters, Satt.
yeah ,, and not ONE Manchester United fan amongst them, right !?!?!?
| 594 |
jvic Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:40:06am |
re: #496 Ben Hur
Bosnia's Islamic RevivalWahabbi Kemosabe.
On the march.
The article ends with
...Like others in Sarajevo, Halilovic also accuses Serb politicians of falsely portraying Sarajevo as a hub of militant Islam in order to win over Western sympathies, and says Western journalists have engaged in "Islamophobia." "You can see more Islam in Paris and London," he says. "So why should people returning to Islam be a problem?"
So if you look askance at this Saudi-financed development, you are not only bigoted but you are unhip.
There's no fool like a sophisticated fool. Our adversaries play the postmodern multiculti Westerner like a violin.
| 595 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:40:21am |
| 596 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:40:28am |
re: #590 justabill
If your talking about who I think your talking about, it would be closer to 2012 years old. If memory serves Jesus was born around 3BC. Truly a man ahead of his time...
Well I never got the invitiation to his Bris so I am not sure of his age?
| 597 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:40:42am |
| 598 |
KenJen Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:40:57am |
re: #587 Lincolntf
Some of them are ready for the nut hatch.
Prey tell? What do you plan to do about it?
| 599 |
Athens Runaway Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:41:06am |
re: #586 Ford_Prefect
Owl I can say is that heron lgf there are some real loons.
Especially when Charles gets hate emu
| 600 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:41:10am |
re: #554 Killgore Trout
That's a tough call. I always condemn stuff like this, it creates a security problem and it is in opposition to free speech (disrupting someone's press conference). However, the BNP is so terrible that I'm on the fence with this one. If Mullah Omar had been routinely pelted with eggs while giving his speeches supporting terrorism I would have considered that a natural and healthy response to his extremism. There's a line there somewhere, not sure exactly where it is.
True.
Mind - Mullah Omar was not a properly, democratically elected leader ...
The time for heckling and even, if one must, throwing eggs and tomatoes, is at rallys - before the fact, not after!
I've also got to question how this was allowed to happen, given the enormous security surrounding Westminster ...
With all extremists and their parties, the aim must be to nip them in the bud - and if that doesn't work, to do everything to expose their disgusting beliefs and politics incessantly afterwards.
Egg-throwing after the election just shows that oneself hasn't got any arguments either.
| 601 |
Dianna Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:41:26am |
re: #592 sattv4u2
yeah ,, and not ONE Manchester United fan amongst them, right !?!?!?
I wouldn't know - but from what I read years ago in Among the Thugs, soccer hooligans tend to be more likely to support BNP.
| 602 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:41:31am |
re: #595 Ford_Prefect
That could be a cardinal sin.
/finches and ducks
You can finch and duck all you want, but I will thrush you out.
| 603 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:41:57am |
re: #598 KenJen
Start a fledgling movement to get them to migrate elsewhere.
| 604 |
Ben Hur Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:42:06am |
re: #592 sattv4u2
yeah ,, and not ONE Manchester United fan amongst them, right !?!?!?
First you call it "soccer."
Now you're hitting ManU.
Next thing you know you'll be saying it was all the Weed's fault!
| 605 |
Miss Trixie Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:42:25am |
| 606 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:42:39am |
re: #580 Ben Hur
I wonder how many of those highly motivated protestors actually got off their asses and voted.
Excellent question!
| 607 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:42:44am |
re: #549 Kenneth
OK, I updinged ya for that one, but PLEASE stop with these egg yolks!
| 608 |
NelsFree Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:42:49am |
re: #590 justabill
If your talking about who I think your talking about, it would be closer to 2012 years old. If memory serves Jesus was born around 3BC. Truly a man ahead of his time...
A man for all time. I seem to recall His birth year was determined to be 6BC, after some adjustments for calendar changes.
| 609 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:42:53am |
re: #602 redstateredneck
You can finch and duck all you want, but I will thrush you out.
I quail at the thought.
| 610 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:43:03am |
re: #601 Dianna
I wouldn't know - but from what I read years ago in Among the Thugs, soccer hooligans tend to be more likely to support BNP.
Most likely, but FAN from FANATIC crosses the whole political spectra
| 611 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:43:03am |
re: #567 Nevergiveup
16:37 Body found in Jerusalem`s Church of Holy Sepulcher; natural causes likely (Haaertz)
It wasn't 2009 years old was it?
Advance publicity for the next Dan Brown novel?
| 612 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:43:12am |
re: #607 realwest
OK, I updinged ya for that one, but PLEASE stop with these egg yolks!
Sparrow you the pain?
| 613 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:43:52am |
| 614 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:44:00am |
These bird puns are a real lark, aren't they?
| 615 |
Athens Runaway Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:44:32am |
re: #614 redstateredneck
I find them quite jay.
| 616 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:45:07am |
re: #554 Killgore Trout
It IS difficult to draw the line, especially because one could make the argument that the throwing of eggs was an exercise of Freedom of expression!
| 617 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:45:18am |
| 618 |
justabill Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:45:21am |
re: #608 NelsFree
A man for all time. I seem to recall His birth year was determined to be 6BC, after some adjustments for calendar changes.
You could very well be right. Last I heard, the numbers were bouncing around between 3-5 BC. But honestly I haven't kept up with this topic...
| 619 |
Ben Hur Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:45:52am |
re: #594 jvic
There's no fool like a sophisticated fool. Our adversaries play the postmodern multiculti Westerner like a violin.
You're telling me:
And Begic says her next movie, titled Bait, tackles growing prejudice, including against women in hijab. "They think we are backward," says Begic bitterly. "It is racist." For her war-weary generation, another era of murderous discord is an unbearable prospect.
Because women are a whole other race.
| 621 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:46:24am |
| 622 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:46:46am |
| 624 |
Kenneth Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:47:08am |
re: #575 jcm
The majority of the NoKo army does not have bullets, gas, food or training. They do have a smaller highly motivated and better fed special forces units, enough to do damage, but not enough to win a war. The fact they worship Dear Leader may motivate them, but it is also their greatest weakness. Decapitate the regime and the fanatics lose their motivation.
| 625 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:47:30am |
re: #560 Nevergiveup
Not much deterrence if you can't use 'em, you know?
"ha ha, NORK, you can't lob nukes at us cause we have nukes - we can't throw 'em back at ya, but by golly we have 'em!" Just doesn't really have much of a deterrent sound to it, you know?
| 626 |
justabill Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:48:00am |
| 627 |
Athens Runaway Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:49:00am |
Some of our more mathematically inclined Lizards need to devise a formula for determining when any given thread will evolve into a pun thread. This way we can make sure to get all the serious out before the determined post number where the pun thread starts.
Psychohistory on a smaller and funnier scale.
| 628 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:49:02am |
re: #625 realwest
Not much deterrence if you can't use 'em, you know?
"ha ha, NORK, you can't lob nukes at us cause we have nukes - we can't throw 'em back at ya, but by golly we have 'em!" Just doesn't really have much of a deterrent sound to it, you know?
Sure they can. They have F-16s and given Japan's technical abilities I am sure they can "Deliver" the package.
| 629 |
Ford_Prefect Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:49:45am |
re: #627 Athens Runaway
Some of our more mathematically inclined Lizards need to devise a formula for determining when any given thread will evolve into a pun thread. This way we can make sure to get all the serious out before the determined post number where the pun thread starts.
Psychohistory on a smaller and funnier scale.
I don't know. Looking at the title of the new post it could happen pretty quickly.
| 630 |
John Neverbend Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:51:18am |
re: #625 realwest
Not much deterrence if you can't use 'em, you know?
"ha ha, NORK, you can't lob nukes at us cause we have nukes - we can't throw 'em back at ya, but by golly we have 'em!" Just doesn't really have much of a deterrent sound to it, you know?
"The whole point of the doomsday machine is lost if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?"
| 631 |
UFO TOFU Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:14am |
Good article on the debate over Sotomayer:[Link: www.volokh.com...]
| 632 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:52:14am |
re: #581 yma o hyd
Do you think the Labour party simply got compacent? Or do you really feel GB is strating to right itself from it's port-ward list?
| 633 |
subsailor68 Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:13am |
Morning all!
This is the kind of thing that puts politicians at the very bottom of the "crappiest people in the world" list, a ranking that makes child molesters sigh with relief:
U.S. war funding bill brims with unrelated extras
So's ya all don't have to waste time reading the article, allow me to sum up:
Democrats add all sorts of crapola (like "cash for clunkers" vouchers) to the war funding bill - so they can get their little projects in a position to sneak 'em through.
Republicans oppose the wasteful spending b.s.
Democrats respond by (as one aide put it):
"This is a dangerous game Republicans are playing by jeopardizing the well-being of our soldiers to score political points," the aide said. "The supplemental will be passed, but they will have to answer for their actions if they oppose it."
It takes a special kind of low-life to make that kind of statement.
| 634 |
jcm Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:55:33am |
re: #624 Kenneth
The majority of the NoKo army does not have bullets, gas, food or training. They do have a smaller highly motivated and better fed special forces units, enough to do damage, but not enough to win a war. The fact they worship Dear Leader may motivate them, but it is also their greatest weakness. Decapitate the regime and the fanatics lose their motivation.
Not enough to win. Enough to make a bloody mess, kill and wound a good portion of our 35,000 tripwire troops, take a massive toll on the S. Korea population. Not to mention how many of the NorKo troops will be killed and civilian dead in the North.
I'm not doubting we'd win. I just don't want anyone thinking when it starts with the Norks it's going to be easy. Iraq and Afghanistan were cake walks in these terms, Norko is going to be a cast iron bitch any way it goes.
| 635 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:56:35am |
re: #631 UFO TOFU
Good article on the debate over Sotomayer:[Link: www.volokh.com...]
Thanks for the link, {TOFU}. How are you doin' today?
| 636 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:57:49am |
re: #633 subsailor68
"This is a dangerous game Republicans are playing by jeopardizing the well-being of our soldiers to score political points," the aide said. "The supplemental will be passed, but they will have to answer for their actions if they oppose it."
Ass holes.
| 637 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:59:14am |
re: #628 Nevergiveup
Oh, I have no doubt that the Japanese can deliver 'em, but I was talking about amending their constitution to allow them to do that first - if you have to wait until you're hit with nukes, you've probably waited too long.
Sorry, all the puns musta gotten in the way of my point!
| 638 |
UFO TOFU Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:59:27am |
re: #635 redstateredneck
You look particularly nice this morning, thanks for asking. I'm a little down myself. My stepfather has given up his will to live. I don't think it will be very long. Very depressing.
| 639 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jun 9, 2009 8:59:58am |
re: #638 UFO TOFU
I'm so sorry. Depression is a terrible thing.
| 640 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:01:01am |
re: #637 realwest
Oh, I have no doubt that the Japanese can deliver 'em, but I was talking about amending their constitution to allow them to do that first - if you have to wait until you're hit with nukes, you've probably waited too long.
Sorry, all the puns musta gotten in the way of my point!
The Japaneses strike me as a practical lot. I suspect they would strike first and amend the constitution later.
| 641 |
realwest Tue, Jun 9, 2009 9:02:15am |
re: #640 Nevergiveup
But they do need to amend to strike first - if they don't there won't be much of anything to amend.
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