Orly Taitz: Nirther Mastermind

Weird • Views: 2,634

The Orange County News has a detailed profile of the Queen Bee of the Nirth Certifikit Revolution: Meet Orly Taitz.

Ask about Taitz’s motivations, and she’ll tell you about her background. She immigrated to the United States from Israel in 1987; before Israel, she lived in what was then the Soviet Socialist Republic of Moldavia. She says it’s her upbringing that initially caused her to be suspicious of Obama. “I was just like any other mom; I didn’t do anything different from any other mother,” she says, her accent turning mother into muddah. “And it’s just during this last election, I became really concerned because I came from a communist country. I saw the things that Obama is saying that really did not make sense and that concerned me. One, of course, that had to do with the all-civilian army. And I saw footage of children dressed in uniforms, saluting Obama and doing drills. That reminded me of young communists.”

(Unsure what she’s referring to? Google “Obama civilian army” and “Obama children drills.” That’ll bring up the appropriate World Net Daily articles and FOX News clips.)

The mistrust turned into something stronger when Taitz received an e-mail claiming there was evidence that Obama wasn’t born in America. “At first, I thought it was a hoax,” she says. “I didn’t believe it.” But then, in October, she filled out the “contact” form on the California Secretary of State website, asking if the secretary verifies the eligibility of presidential candidates. The response was no. “I was shocked,” Taitz says.

She fired off a round of letters to the editors of local newspapers, arguing that Obama didn’t meet the constitutional requirements to be president. The only one to publish her words was the Westminster Herald. But that was enough. Someone read the letter in the newspaper and called Taitz at her dental office to invite her to speak at an upcoming meeting of the California Coalition for Immigration Reform in Garden Grove, the far-right anti-immigrant group whose projects include a boycott of Mexico. There, she told the story of her own legal immigration to the United States, and afterward, she was approached by Buena Park radio pastor Wiley Drake (recently in the news because he publicly admitted to praying for Obama’s death). After chatting a little about immigration, the conversation turned to Obama’s birth certificate. Drake invited Taitz onto his radio show. On the air, the two discussed what they thought of the Usurper, and then Drake asked, “Well, what can we do?”

Taitz’s answer: “We can sue.”

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220 comments
1 freedombilly  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:25:37pm

The Return of the Son of the Nirth Certifikit!

2 jcw46  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:27:00pm

Well that was rude of her pare...

Oh wait I thought it said TAINTZ!

3 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:27:04pm

Oh, noes, do youse knows where your nirth certifikatt iz?

Findz it soonz, orly you might not be a citizenz!

4 snowcrash  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:28:00pm

“The Queen Bee of Birferstan" lol

5 jcw46  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:28:40pm

Snort! I kan haz stuff'd green paperz?

6 Bloodnok  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:31:14pm

What logic she employs!

(After receiving a vile comment at her blog)

After filing a report with the Orange County Sheriff’s Department, she traced the commenter’s IP address to Everett, Washington. Suddenly, everything clicked. “I’m wondering if it’s someone who knows Obama,” she says, “because his mother, Anne Dunham, used to study at the University of Seattle, Washington. This person is at Everett, Washington, which is very close to Seattle.”

Folks, show some respect. We're dealing with a highly developed mind here.

/

7 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:31:18pm
That’ll bring up the appropriate World Net Daily articles and FOX News clips.


Heh.

8 jaunte  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:31:59pm

Ah kwestion the authenticitee ov that Seal!
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

9 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:32:47pm

Another paranoid mind. It seems it's becoming a pandemic.

10 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:34:23pm

re: #6 Bloodnok

What logic she employs!

Folks, show some respect. We're dealing with a highly developed mind here.

/

She's a stellar researcher. It's University of Washington in Seattle. There is a Seattle University a Jesuit school. Of course everyone of us in the Tacoma - Seattle - Everett metropolitan area knows the other 3 million people in the area on a first name basis.

11 saberry0530  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:34:53pm

Is this something that is in the water?

12 jcw46  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:35:10pm

To all the "He wasn't born in U.S.A." and to the "he was born a Muslim" shriekers (to borrow a recent wording) I say: SO WHAT?

The Courts have clearly stated that without standing, they're not going to allow any suit to proceed. Without the court ordering evidence to be collected, presented or a search warrant issued: NOTHING'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

Better to spend time and money on pointing out the illegal things this political intellectual pretender is doing NOW. Plenty of meat on those bones folks!

13 solomonpanting  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:35:47pm
her accent turning mother into muddah.

Hello, muddah
Hello, faddah
It's so clear that
I know nada
To prevent my
Brain from rotta
I'm about to lauch my
Anti-Obama intifada

14 Wm T Sherman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:36:49pm

Would it be to damned much to ask for a link to her newsletter?

15 freetoken  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:38:28pm

Taitz apparently lets others do keyposts on her blog... and wow, they do want to give Alex Jones a run for the money...

E.g. (and I'm only using Google cache links)

Extremely important
AN ABSOLUTE MUST READ FOR EVERY AMERICAN!
(by Gabriel Hertzberg)

[...]

Juval Aviv gave intelligence (via what he had gathered in Israel and the Middle East) to the Bush Administration about 9/11 a month before it occurred. His report specifically said they would use planes as bombs and target high profile buildings and monuments. Congress has since hired him as a security consultant.

[...]

Truther-in-waiting?

Be sure to read the comments to that post, especially from a Mr. Pinsky (who appears to make quite a few long comments over there.)

16 jaunte  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:38:28pm

Turnabout: Is Obama Denialist Orly Taitz Really a Lawyer? Will She Be For Long?

“Dr.” Orly Taitz, a woman holding herself out as a lawyer, has managed to leverage the far-right’s distaste for President Obama into a number of conspiracy theories, a few scurrilous lawsuits, and fifteen minutes of fame, billing herself as the defender of obscure constitutional phraseology and – apparently – the republic itself. But “Dr.” Taitz may be the only “ineligible” player in her little farce.

Although Taitz is a member of the California Bar, she’s not listed as a member of the American Bar Association (check for yourself). Nor is her “law school” (William Howard Taft University) accredited by the ABA. Because Taft is a distance-learning school only, Taitz’s degree entitles her, at most, to practice in California, as her school candidly admits.

17 freetoken  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:39:41pm

re: #12 jcw46

You make it sound like you are sympathetic to the claim (President Obama not born in the US.)

18 VioletTiger  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:41:19pm

re: #16 jaunte
How does one get a law degree online?

19 Racer X  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:41:20pm

I blame Bush.

20 jaunte  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:41:26pm

re: #14 Wm T Sherman

Would it be to damned much to ask for a link to her newsletter?

If you read the article linked in the post, who knows what you might find?

21 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:42:01pm

re: #18 VioletTiger

How does one get a law degree online?

$25 and a Paypal account.

22 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:42:09pm

re: #20 jaunte

Clicking links is teh hard.

23 jaunte  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:42:18pm

re: #18 VioletTiger

Magna cum Googlam.

24 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:42:42pm

re: #20 jaunte

If you read the article linked in the post, who knows what you might find?

Nirthers and troofers and wackos OH MY!

25 Wm T Sherman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:42:59pm

20 jaunte 6/20/09 5:41:26 pm

T'was intended as humor.

26 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:43:10pm

re: #14 Wm T Sherman

Would it be to damned much to ask for a link to her newsletter?

Sorry ,,, it's Saturday

GOOGLE and ASK lessons are held on Mondays, Wednesdays and alternate Fridays

27 jaunte  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:43:24pm

re: #25 Wm T Sherman

Oh, sorry; you got me.

28 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:43:27pm

re: #22 Sharmuta

Clicking links is teh hard.

Might make brain explode.......

29 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:43:36pm

re: #25 Wm T Sherman

20 jaunte 6/20/09 5:41:26 pm

T'was intended as humor.

T'wididn't come out that way!

30 Jack Burton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:44:34pm

re: #3 jcm

Oh, noes, do youse knows where your nirth certifikatt iz?

Findz it soonz, orly you might not be a citizenz!

In one of my cabinets in a folder titled "Medical Papers". My non-autism inducing vaccination records are next to them.

I want to see the nirthers nirth certifikats. If they cant find them, I want back all my tax money they milked out of the system as illegal aliens.

/k not really but... ffs

31 VioletTiger  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:44:55pm

Every time a rock turns over another kook pops out. Did the Nirthers ever get their billboards? I haven't seen any.

32 Wm T Sherman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:46:02pm

I will remember to use "/" in the future.

"Newsletter," you see, is funny.

"Blog" is not funny, because it actually exists.

33 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:46:56pm

re: #31 VioletTiger

Every time a rock turns over another kook pops out. Did the Nirthers ever get their billboards? I haven't seen any.

I think they have one in Ball, Louisiana, in central Lousiana, pop about 3500.

No one goes to Ball, La. on purpose, OR accidentally for that matter.

So they have an audience of 3500.

34 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:48:02pm

re: #32 Wm T Sherman

I will remember to use "/" in the future.

"Newsletter," you see, is funny.

"Blog" is not funny, because it actually exists.

Old comedians rule

If ya haf ta slain it, it prolly wasn't funny in the 1st place

35 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:48:36pm

Hi everyone, here's the you tube clip of an Obama youth group that I think was referred to in the article.

I find it a little disturbing.

36 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:48:56pm

And just for good measure, today's top-selling book listed on the Kindle Store front page (as accessed from my Kindle) is none other than Glenn Beck's Common Sense.

We are so screwed.

37 Jack Burton  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:49:29pm

re: #31 VioletTiger

Every time a rock turns over another kook pops out. Did the Nirthers ever get their billboards? I haven't seen any.

The whining about first amendment violations because of those billboards being rejected by CBS, by people who supposedly should know better, was quite entertaining.

38 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:50:22pm

omg brown people

39 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:50:22pm

re: #35 dapperdave

Hi everyone, here's the you tube clip of an Obama youth group that I think was referred to in the article.



I find it a little disturbing.

Oh ,, I thought that was a clip of summer "fat" camp

my bad !

//

40 jcw46  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:51:09pm

re: #17 freetoken

You make it sound like you are sympathetic to the claim (President Obama not born in the US.)

Making a flat negative to folks of that nature is useless. I would rather attempt to gently guide them onto a socially useful path that will occupy their psychology and degree of energy. Much like border line obsessive compulsives can be useful in work that requires strict attention to detail and concentration.

although I am not sympathetic to the claim, I am reluctant to declare flatly that it is false since I am not in possesion of evidence to it being false or true. Similar to not disagreeing with someone saying that Jimmy Hoffa is buried under Giant's stadium. His death is to be presumed but can any of us PROVE or DISPROVE where his bones lie? Best to convince those that believe that that it will never be known unless or until Giant's stadium is torn down and perhaps not even then.
N'est ce pas?

41 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:51:52pm

re: #39 sattv4u2

To many cheeseburgers and xbox 360/

42 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:52:32pm

How incredibly odd that a huge nither is named Orly.

Orly.

43 jaunte  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:53:18pm

re: #18 VioletTiger

How does one get a law degree online?

It seems pretty popular: 69,200,000 results.
[Link: www.google.com...]

44 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:53:52pm

re: #6 Bloodnok

What logic she employs!

Folks, show some respect. We're dealing with a highly developed mind here.

/

Oh, I don't know. If someone posts from College Station, Texas, it is fair to regard them as at least accomplices and fellow travelers, if not outright Aggies.
Oh, you mean they do other stuff besides the college in this Everett place?
Never mind.

45 DEZes  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:53:57pm

re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth

How incredibly odd that a huge nither is named Orly.

Orly.

Fitting.

46 Cato the Elder  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:54:03pm

Speaking of Kindle, a Facebook friend today challenged people to write something in iambic pentameter.

The following, with classical and Kindle references, took me about five minutes. I think he's in shock.

When I sit down to think on poesy
The ways of modern poets come to mind
Who never learned a rhythm to adore
To last for more than two lines at a time.
Their small-caps fetish, cribbed from mister c.,
Gets on one's nerves more quickly than a bug
Flying around the room and flapping hard
against the window screen while books turned bytes
Now kindle fires in minds, as Plutarch wrote,
Instead of filling up the shelves with dust.
If you would like to write as Shakespeare did,
Just keep a mental metronome a-tock
And count syllabic'ly the beat of words
As if they tumbled forth from out a clock.

47 Bloodnok  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:54:50pm

re: #43 jaunte

It seems pretty popular: 69,200,000 results.
[Link: www.google.com...]

I got one, and I even misspelled "Law" on the form.

/

48 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:54:59pm

You don't have to be nuts to have this bother you.
Twenty-second clip:

49 VioletTiger  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:55:17pm

re: #43 jaunte

It seems pretty popular: 69,200,000 results.
[Link: www.google.com...]


Criminy,you're right! 'Earn a law degree from home!'
If this Orly kook is qualified, the standards are, perhaps, not too stringent.

50 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:55:38pm

re: #35 dapperdave

Hi everyone, here's the you tube clip of an Obama youth group that I think was referred to in the article.


[Video]I find it a little disturbing.

Meh. It's a young frat-type group excited about the possibility (this vid was pre-election) of America's first black president. Nothing really controversial about it.

51 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:56:43pm

re: #48 HelloDare

Here come the brown shirts?

52 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:56:50pm

re: #44 Shiplord Kirel

Oh, I don't know. If someone posts from College Station, Texas, it is fair to regard them as at least accomplices and fellow travelers, if not outright Aggies.
Oh, you mean they do other stuff besides the college in this Everett place?
Never mind.

It's only 16 miles of dense urban terrain.
Everett does make a couple of other things, like 747s and 777s but nothing of real importance.

53 Sharmuta  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:57:32pm
A few days earlier, the California Supreme Court had dismissed Taitz’s lawsuit asking for an emergency order to halt certification of the election results on behalf of Gail Lightfoot, the Libertarian vice-presidential candidate who had been on Ron Paul’s ticket in California. The dismissal just led Taitz to refile in the United States Supreme Court on Dec. 12. But on the day after the presidential inauguration came an event that seemed to shake Taitz to her core: She says her case inexplicably “disappeared” from the court’s online docket. It was only after “hundreds” of phone calls from Taitz and her supporters that, a day later, the case reappeared. Workers in the Supreme Court’s office told her it was due to a computer glitch that affected multiple cases. To Taitz, the whole thing smacked of foul play.

“I don’t know if it was hacking from outside, or whether it was hacking from inside, or if it was someone who works within the Supreme Court did it in order to show there are no challenges to Obama’s eligibility, but this is a serious issue,” Taitz says. “I think this is more of a scandal than many other issues. This, actually, might be another Watergate.”

Certifiable. Frankly- she shouldn't be allowed to practice. I would not allow this woman near my mouth with sharp objects.

54 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 5:59:27pm

re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth

I can understand the motivation, it's the lock step I find disturbing. I'm reminded of a military type conditioning.

55 gregb  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:00:05pm

I agree with her on one point--the things Obama says don't make sense, but not particular to his eligibility. :-)

56 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:00:19pm

re: #51 dapperdave

Here come the brown shirts?


57 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:00:27pm

re: #54 dapperdave

I can understand the motivation, it's the lock step I find disturbing. I'm reminded of a military Hitler youth type conditioning.


someone had to say it

58 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:00:49pm

re: #54 dapperdave

Not uncommon among certain 'greek' type fraternities. Think "Stomp The Yard".

59 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:01:48pm

re: #56 kansas

see my 35

60 Irenicum  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:01:54pm

re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth

The irony is too beautiful for words!

61 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:01:58pm

re: #9 Sharmuta

Another paranoid mind. It seems it's becoming a pandemic.

Maybe we should rename it a paranoia pamdemic, in honour of the shrieking harpy.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:02:07pm

re: #57 sattv4u2

someone had to say it

Yeah. Except that is an incorrect and unfair characterization.

63 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:03:46pm

re: #62 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah. Except that is an incorrect and unfair characterization.

Lets see
Pre-teens and teens being indoctrinated into a political philosophy, blindluy following a "leader"

Yup ,,,, TOTALLY unfair.

64 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:04:13pm

re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth

Meh. It's a young frat-type group excited about the possibility (this vid was pre-election) of America's first black president. Nothing really controversial about it.

It wasn't a frat type group, it was from a charter school here in Kansas City, and it's the mind set that disturbs people. A teacher organized it and was fired. Nothing controversial?

65 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:04:56pm

re: #46 Cato the Elder

Whoa! Ave Cato!

66 Wm T Sherman  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:05:03pm

The birth certificate issue is a regrettable diversion. I agree 100% on calling out the people pushing it - that's about all you can do about it. I wonder (idly) how much effect on public opinion (i.e. "look at this stuff, the oppostion is nuts") are these people actually having?

You can't stop the birthers from jabbering. You can't control the degree to which the media choose to portray them as representative of people who are skeptical of the direction in which the country is being pushed.

I do believe that the the issue that dwarfs everythin is scale of the failure that is building under everyone's feet. The vast majority of people have not really begun to aks the right questions yet.

67 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:05:41pm

re: #62 Slumbering Behemoth

There is an indoctrination going on there, notice how their individuality has been stripped away and they all act the same.

68 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:07:02pm

re: #63 sattv4u2

Lets see
Pre-teens and teens being indoctrinated into a political philosophy, blindluy following a "leader"

Yup ,,,, TOTALLY unfair.

If that's how you are determined to see it, I can't change your mind. I see nothing different in this then the coaching teens and to pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric.

69 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:08:14pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

If that's how you are determined to see it, I can't change your mind. I see nothing different in this then the coaching teens and to pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric.

There wouldn't be if you actually saw that.

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:08:15pm

re: #64 kansas

It wasn't a frat type group, it was from a charter school here in Kansas City, and it's the mind set that disturbs people. A teacher organized it and was fired. Nothing controversial?

Is this true? I don't recall hearing about that aspect of it.

71 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:09:18pm

re: #67 dapperdave

There is an indoctrination going on there, notice how their individuality has been stripped away and they all act the same.

Not much different than similar frat type behavior.

re: #69 kansas

There wouldn't be if you actually saw that.

Actually saw what?

72 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:09:32pm

re: #67 dapperdave

There is an indoctrination going on there, notice how their individuality has been stripped away and they all act the same.

I think the whole idea was wrong-headed and improper in that school setting, but honestly, it looked to me like a dance-type routine in a military style, and I wouldn't be surprised if each participant was allowed to add his own .02.

That said, it was wrong and improper in that school setting, as would be re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

If that's how you are determined to see it, I can't change your mind. I see nothing different in this then the coaching teens and to pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric.

Schools should not be taking over the parents' right to teach their children the family values, and either of the above takes away from that, imo.

73 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:11:31pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

If that's how you are determined to see it, I can't change your mind. I see nothing different in this then the coaching teens and to pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric.

I urge you to watch an LISTEN to the video again. Nice try re: the "If that's how you are determined to see it. Doesn't wash

Yes, they should be proud that a black man for the 1st time in our history was running for and ultimatley winning the presidency. But again, LISTEN to each as they recite the Oabam doctrines. You think it's "natural" for young teens? We're not talking about 19, college aged. Those are YOUNG teens. Show mw where young teens "recite politically conservative rhetoric" en mass

74 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:12:13pm

re: #70 Slumbering Behemoth

Is this true? I don't recall hearing about that aspect of it.

[Link: www.google.com...]

75 sagehen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:12:41pm

re: #54 dapperdave

I can understand the motivation, it's the lock step I find disturbing. I'm reminded of a military type conditioning.

You've never seen a steps team?

76 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:13:04pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

watch again and LISTEN to what each states. Not in unison. Individually

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:13:11pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout


Schools should not be taking over the parents' right to teach their children the family values, and either of the above takes away from that, imo.

I agree. Kansas brought up that this was orchestrated by a school teacher who was fired for it. I do not recall hearing about that when folks first started to criticize this video.

If what Kansas said is true, then that is out of bounds for a teacher to prompt this sort of thing.

78 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:14:02pm

re: #71 Slumbering Behemoth

Actually saw what?

"If that's how you are determined to see it, I can't change your mind. I see nothing different in this then the coaching teens and to pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric."

Any teacher or anyone for that matter coaching teens and pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric.

79 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:14:12pm

re: #75 sagehen

You've never seen a steps team?



I've judged competitive step teams. Not ONCE ghas any of them broken out into a political advertisement!

80 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:15:00pm

The teacher was suspended. I don't recall if there was a firing, but the whole thing was totally inappropriate.

81 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:15:01pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

re: #71 Slumbering Behemoth

One things for sure, you don't see these kids smiling, with no real expression on their face I would think that their personalities are being stripped away, they look like mind numb robots.

82 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:15:59pm

Reading this thread is just tickling my funny bone something fierce. Rarely do I read something on the Intarwebs and laugh aloud.

83 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:16:12pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

watch again and LISTEN to what each states. Not in unison. Individually

I've heard it.
It looks to me like a school "play" with each participant taking part.

It's wrong, in a school setting, to do something like that that would be so closely allied (or not) with each person's family values. It was wrong.

And creepy, because it's not the school's place, nor the teacher's place, to replace the parents in determining family values (including political values) for students.

But that's it.

Their faces are blank because that's part of the "play" they're acting out.

84 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:16:26pm

re: #52 jcm

It's only 16 miles of dense urban terrain.
Everett does make a couple of other things, like 747s and 777s but nothing of real importance.

I knew that. What I didn't know was to add this:

/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM/SARCASM

85 Jimmah  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:16:51pm

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

Stop the War Coalitions's web page now takes you to The Pirate Bay. What a shame//

86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:17:02pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

I watched it plenty of times when it first hit the webs. Maybe there was some inappropriate involvement from a teacher on this, but your interpretation of brainwashing and hitler youth doesn't wash with me. Frankly, your hitler youth comment was ridiculous.

87 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:20:07pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Heh.

Yeah, but the scary part is that there are millions of bloggers for whom "WorldNet Daily articles and Fox news clips" are not a red flag, but the ultimate arbiter of truth.

88 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:20:22pm

re: #74 kansas

[Link: www.google.com...]

Thanks. The ones I've skimmed through so far state that the teacher was suspended for releasing the video on the net, not fired for making the students do this.

89 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:21:06pm

re: #86 Slumbering Behemoth

I watched it plenty of times when it first hit the webs. Maybe there was some inappropriate involvement from a teacher on this, but your interpretation of brainwashing and hitler youth doesn't wash with me. Frankly, your hitler youth comment was ridiculous.

Google Obama Army Hitler Youth. The comment is far from ridiculous.

90 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:22:03pm

re: #88 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks. The ones I've skimmed through so far state that the teacher was suspended for releasing the video on the net, not fired for making the students do this.

Yes. Suspended see my 80. I suppose that makes it better huh?

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:22:51pm

re: #78 kansas

Any teacher or anyone for that matter coaching teens and pre-teens to recite politically conservative rhetoric.

There were quite a few "teen conservative" videos on HotAir awhile back. I pretty sure they got some coaching for their speeches.

92 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:23:28pm

re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth

There were quite a few "teen conservative" videos on HotAir awhile back. I pretty sure they got some coaching for their speeches.

Apparently I'll have to take your word for it.

93 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:24:11pm

re: #86 Slumbering Behemoth

re-read my #63. Then research the origins of the Hitler Youth
I am NOT saying Obama had ANY hand in this, al a Hitler. But I AM saying the similarities to what those youngsters are doing and what Jugendbund der NSDAP was established for are eerie

(and I'll give you a hint ,, it didn't start in the 1940's ,,,, it was 2 decades prior )

94 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:25:17pm

re: #89 kansas

Google Obama Army Hitler Youth. The comment is far from ridiculous.

Equating a civilian army with hitler youth strkes me as ridiculous as the rhetoric from the nirthers and troofers.

This is why some still consider conservatives to be raving kooks.

95 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:25:23pm

re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth

There were quite a few "teen conservative" videos on HotAir awhile back. I pretty sure they got some coaching for their speeches.

individual teens saying they prefer a conservative, or a GROUP of teens in harmony praising A politician?

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:25:54pm

re: #90 kansas

Yes. Suspended see my 80. I suppose that makes it better huh?

In your #64 you claimed that a teacher organized it and was fired.

The reality is that a teacher was suspended for releasing the video on the internet.

There is a huge difference between what you alleged, and what appears to have actually happened.

97 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:27:17pm

re: #92 kansas

Apparently I'll have to take your word for it.

Kansas: I don't recall conservatives being bent out of shape when the documentary film "Jesus Camp" showed teachers bringing a life-size cardboard cutout of GWB to the altar, to receive a "blessing," spoken in tongues, from the kids in the audience. Have you seen it?

[Link: www.videosift.com...]

Sadly, it's the tip of the iceberg with President Bush where the Religious Right is (was?) concerned.

98 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:27:39pm

re: #87 ShanghaiEd

Yeah, but the scary part is that there are millions of bloggers for whom "WorldNet Daily articles and Fox news clips" are not a red flag, but the ultimate arbiter of truth.

Sadly, yes.

Unless it's Shep Smith on Fox News saying he's frightened by the ugly tone of some of the viewer mail, and reading out a letter from a nirther conspiracy theorist.

Then all of sudden it's time to get the pitchforks and run Shep Smith off Fox News.

99 sattv4u2  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #94 eclectic infidel

Equating a civilian army with hitler youth strkes me as ridiculous as the rhetoric from the nirthers and troofers.

This is why some still consider conservatives to be raving kooks.

The Hilter Youth did NOT start as a civilian army. They were the precursor of the Sturmabteilung (which would become the paramilitary wing of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

100 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:28:44pm

re: #94 eclectic infidel

a civilian army

That says it all.

101 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:29:59pm

re: #94 eclectic infidel

Equating a civilian army with hitler youth strkes me as ridiculous as the rhetoric from the nirthers and troofers.

This is why some still consider conservatives to be raving kooks.

Can't argue with that logic.///

102 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:31:03pm

re: #97 ShanghaiEd

I can't speak for conseratives but I knew that that would come to nothing.

103 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:31:39pm

re: #97 ShanghaiEd

Kansas: I don't recall conservatives being bent out of shape when the documentary film "Jesus Camp" showed teachers bringing a life-size cardboard cutout of GWB to the altar, to receive a "blessing," spoken in tongues, from the kids in the audience. Have you seen it?

[Link: www.videosift.com...]

Sadly, it's the tip of the iceberg with President Bush where the Religious Right is (was?) concerned.

Not my cup of tea, but it wasn't a school.

104 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:32:41pm

re: #103 kansas

Good point

105 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:35:24pm

YO Everyone -

The "Doc" is in the house. Using MS to get here (playing with "Bing" as in a modifier to "Badda") - ONE MORE TIME - unless his MOTHER was NOT a US Citizen, everything else is conjecture. Pres. Obama can be attacked on so many issues that this one is SILLY at best.
I am a diehard opponent of the current President about 80% of the time.
I want his Party Defeated in the 2009 NJ and VA Governors races. I want his Party Defeated in the 2010 Congressional Races. I want HIM defeated in 2012 unless things change in an unforseen manner.
All of that said - the "Nirther" issue is a BIG waste of time. That is alll.

-S-

106 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:35:57pm

re: #102 dapperdave

I can't speak for conseratives but I knew that that would come to nothing.

"Come to nothing" in what sense? The Religious Right's faithfulness in voting may well have been the winning margin in 2004. It came to something, from where I'm sitting.

107 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:35:59pm

re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth

In your #64 you claimed that a teacher organized it and was fired.

The reality is that a teacher was suspended for releasing the video on the internet.

There is a huge difference between what you alleged, and what appears to have actually happened.

Crap. Read the articles. There is not a HUGE difference. Even if the thing was not released on the internet it was inappropriate. And you don't know if the teacher was eventually fired or not, do you?

108 jcm  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:36:50pm

With everything else going on....

Did ya all see zombie's latest...

In Berkeley. . .even the private-school students are communists

…that when 7th- and 8th-graders at an expensive prestigious private school are asked to design their own tiles for a permanently displayed mosaic, they draw a big hammer-and-sickle and declare as their message to the world, “Capitalism will fail.”
109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:38:17pm

re: #93 sattv4u2

I see a small group of kids in a 'greek', frat type performance. Granted, I certainly do not agree with their take on Obama, but I see nothing sinister here.

If you want to see it as "Hitler Youth II", suit yourself.

110 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:39:42pm

re: #106 ShanghaiEd

Jesus camp is not part of the school system.

111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:41:14pm

re: #107 kansas

And you don't know if the teacher was eventually fired or not, do you?

It would seem that neither of us do. However, in what I have read so far, the only thing that teacher is guilty of is releasing the video to the internet against the direction of the school.

So far, I have read nothing that asserts or alleges that that teacher or any other was directly responsible for instigating or orchestrating this.

112 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #97 ShanghaiEd

Kansas: I don't recall conservatives being bent out of shape when the documentary film "Jesus Camp" showed teachers bringing a life-size cardboard cutout of GWB to the altar, to receive a "blessing," spoken in tongues, from the kids in the audience. Have you seen it?

[Link: www.videosift.com...]

Sadly, it's the tip of the iceberg with President Bush where the Religious Right is (was?) concerned.

That was at a public school?
Or a "camp" of some sort that people chose to send their kids to?

113 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:43:26pm

re: #106 ShanghaiEd

"Come to nothing" in what sense? The Religious Right's faithfulness in voting may well have been the winning margin in 2004. It came to something, from where I'm sitting.

Ed - I think it's OK for the "religious right" to vote.

114 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:45:37pm

re: #112 reine.de.tout

My #35 was in a public school.

115 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:45:53pm

re: #110 dapperdave

Jesus camp is not part of the school system.

I didn't say that it was. Just point out that the current craziness didn't arise out of a vacuum; more of a pendulum swing from one extreme toward the other. Neither extreme being desirable. Would you agree?

116 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:46:25pm

re: #106 ShanghaiEd

"Come to nothing" in what sense? The Religious Right's faithfulness in voting may well have been the winning margin in 2004. It came to something, from where I'm sitting.

SE .... well, and this may get me slammed but I don't care ... many blacks coming out and voting for the first time in their lives just because a black man was running for president might have just been the winning margin in the last election ... so who gets to decide who has the right to vote ... not you ...

117 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:47:37pm

re: #114 dapperdave

My #35 was in a public school.

Yes, I know. And I found it creepy, because the school promoted a political viewpoint with that program, and should not have.

I found the "jesuscamp" video creepy too, because that's not my flavor of religion. But if parents choose to send their kids to that camp, then I have to assume it's because the came is promoting their family's style of values.

118 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:48:58pm

re: #115 ShanghaiEd

I don't know, I've never seen the right in this country come on as aggressive as the left. The closest I've seen was in the 80's.

119 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:50:03pm

re: #107 kansas

There is not a HUGE difference.

Oh, and yes, there is a huge difference between what you previously alleged (A teacher orchestrated this and was fired for it), and what seems to actually have occurred (a teacher being suspended for releasing it).

Your claim accuses a teacher of making the students do this, the reality is that a teacher was reprimanded for releasing the video to the internet, with absolutely no mention of any teacher making the students do anything.

Big difference.

120 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:50:04pm

re: #115 ShanghaiEd

I didn't say that it was. Just point out that the current craziness didn't arise out of a vacuum; more of a pendulum swing from one extreme toward the other. Neither extreme being desirable. Would you agree?

I think we're talking apples and oranges.
I think in a family, the family has a right to be as crazy (and/or stupid) as they want to be as long as they do it legally.

Public institutions like schools, however, should NOT be promoting political (or religious) veiwpoints that may not match the students' personal family views.

121 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:50:49pm

re: #117 reine.de.tout

I've never seen Jesus camp, just a few clips and reviews but I have to confess Jesus freaks don't worry me.

122 dapperdave  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:52:03pm

dinner bell rings, off to eat.

123 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:52:24pm

re: #116 JacksonTn

SE .... well, and this may get me slammed but I don't care ... many blacks coming out and voting for the first time in their lives just because a black man was running for president might have just been the winning margin in the last election ... so who gets to decide who has the right to vote ... not you ...

It wasn't the black vote. Obama got 68% of ALL first time voters.

124 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:52:28pm

Time for me to leave the bunker. Later Lizards, enjoy your evening.

125 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:53:00pm

re: #121 dapperdave

I've never seen Jesus camp, just a few clips and reviews but I have to confess Jesus freaks don't worry me.

They don't worry me either.

But neither do school kids taking part in a "production" at school. The creepy part for me on that one is that the school seems to have actively participated in promotion of certain political views.

126 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #123 iceweasel

It wasn't the black vote. Obama got 68% of ALL first time voters.

Really?
Is there a link to some info on that?

127 kansas  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:54:43pm

re: #119 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, and yes, there is a huge difference between what you previously alleged (A teacher orchestrated this and was fired for it), and what seems to actually have occurred (a teacher being suspended for releasing it).

Your claim accuses a teacher of making the students do this, the reality is that a teacher was reprimanded for releasing the video to the internet, with absolutely no mention of any teacher making the students do anything.

Big difference.

So, these kids came up with this on their own, and the only disgression is actually releasing the video on the internet. If a tree falls in the forest......

128 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:55:19pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

Really?
Is there a link to some info on that?

[Link: brandtao.wordpress.com...]

Cites an exit poll reported in the Guardian. I'll find the Guardian link if I can.

I don't find the number hard to believe at all, when you consider how overwhelmingly the college campuses were going for Obama.

129 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:55:59pm

re: #123 iceweasel

It wasn't the black vote. Obama got 68% of ALL first time voters.

IW ... figures you would once again say something like that ... I worked on the ground for years on democrat voting registration drives ... we went into mainly black districts and it was a very tough time to get them to register ... I don't give a crap what you say ... did they not give a flying flip about their country before ... Oh, that's right ... for the first time .... blah, blah, blah ...

130 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:56:15pm

re: #128 iceweasel

[Link: brandtao.wordpress.com...]

Cites an exit poll reported in the Guardian. I'll find the Guardian link if I can.

I don't find the number hard to believe at all, when you consider how overwhelmingly the college campuses were going for Obama.

eh, I'm not big on believing exit polls.
They aren't really all that accurate.
This one MIGHT be, but the history of "exit polls" is that they aren't.

131 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:58:00pm

re: #130 reine.de.tout

Here's the NYT breakdown of voter demographics. It says 69% of first time voters went for Obama. Not much of a difference than the guardian.

[Link: elections.nytimes.com...]

But it's still an exit poll, so take it for whatever you think it's worth.

132 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:58:22pm

re: #116 JacksonTn

SE .... well, and this may get me slammed but I don't care ... many blacks coming out and voting for the first time in their lives just because a black man was running for president might have just been the winning margin in the last election ... so who gets to decide who has the right to vote ... not you ...

Jackson and reine: Whoa. I've never questioned, or even mentioned, the "right to vote" in this regard. How is that connected?

But I'm still angry that the GWB campaign methodically manipulated and exploited people of religion in the U.S. and gave them zero in return. One drop in the bucket...distributing 20 - 30,000 copies of the DVD "George W. Bush: Religion in the White House" directly to churches, including a portrait of President Bush alongside a portrait of Jesus. Subtle, they were not.

It's still a sore spot for me, because I hate seeing people--including religious folks who are close to me--played for suckers, regardless of the player.

133 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:59:39pm

SE ... Obama exploited many people during the campaign ... and I predict they will be getting ZERO in return ...

134 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 6:59:43pm

re: #132 ShanghaiEd

Jackson and reine: Whoa. I've never questioned, or even mentioned, the "right to vote" in this regard. How is that connected?

But I'm still angry that the GWB campaign methodically manipulated and exploited people of religion in the U.S. and gave them zero in return. One drop in the bucket...distributing 20 - 30,000 copies of the DVD "George W. Bush: Religion in the White House" directly to churches, including a portrait of President Bush alongside a portrait of Jesus. Subtle, they were not.

It's still a sore spot for me, because I hate seeing people--including religious folks who are close to me--played for suckers, regardless of the player.

I'm religious, I'm "right", I voted for Bush and I don't think I was "suckered" in any way. I guess your post hit a "sore spot" for me, when you seemed upset that the "religious right" affected the vote, is all.

135 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:01:59pm

re: #129 JacksonTn

IW ... figures you would once again say something like that ... I worked on the ground for years on democrat voting registration drives ... we went into mainly black districts and it was a very tough time to get them to register ... I don't give a crap what you say ... did they not give a flying flip about their country before ... Oh, that's right ... for the first time .... blah, blah, blah ...

Wow. I provide you with a link that shows that Obama got 68% of all first time voters...yet you still want to claim that he only won because of "black people who didn't give a flying flip about their country before".

Despite the fact that Democrats always get 90% plus percent of the black vote, and despite the fact that blacks themselves only make up, what, 12% of the population?

Wow.

136 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:02:57pm

re: #131 iceweasel

Here's the NYT breakdown of voter demographics. It says 69% of first time voters went for Obama. Not much of a difference than the guardian.

[Link: elections.nytimes.com...]

But it's still an exit poll, so take it for whatever you think it's worth.

It says "first-time" voters was 11% of all voters - no indication of the ages of those voters; some could have been older people voting for the first time, can't tell from that information. So "first-time" does not automatically mean the college-age voters you mentioned.

137 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:03:45pm

re: #135 iceweasel

Wow. I provide you with a link that shows that Obama got 68% of all first time voters...yet you still want to claim that he only won because of "black people who didn't give a flying flip about their country before".

Despite the fact that Democrats always get 90% plus percent of the black vote, and despite the fact that blacks themselves only make up, what, 12% of the population?

Wow.

IW ... friggin say wow all you want ... yes, they always got the black vote ... but this time more blacks showed up ... why? ... because a black was the candidate ... how many registration drives have you ever been involved in? ... how long have you been a democrat or voting in that direction? ... do you know the party? ...

138 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:04:15pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

It says "first-time" voters was 11% of all voters - no indication of the ages of those voters; some could have been older people voting for the first time, can't tell from that information. So "first-time" does not automatically mean the college-age voters you mentioned.

Of course. But I think it's undeniable that Obama had a huge majority among those. We don't know what percent of that 11% they made up though.

139 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:05:14pm

re: #118 dapperdave

I don't know, I've never seen the right in this country come on as aggressive as the left. The closest I've seen was in the 80's.

Dave: Then you and I haven't been reading about the same current events. In the public sphere, the "right" ate the "left's" lunch for a decade or more, both legislatively and PR-wise; their aggressiveness came within a hair of achieving the "permanent majority" they spoke of so often. It's one of the great political success stories of the century, IMO. Which makes it even more ironic that so much could go to hell, so fast.

140 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:07:49pm

re: #134 reine.de.tout

I'm religious, I'm "right", I voted for Bush and I don't think I was "suckered" in any way. I guess your post hit a "sore spot" for me, when you seemed upset that the "religious right" affected the vote, is all.

I would never be so presumptive to say you were suckered by the campaign. I'm only speaking of people I know personally. Please be clear on that.

141 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:12:20pm

re: #133 JacksonTn

SE ... Obama exploited many people during the campaign ... and I predict they will be getting ZERO in return ...

Absolutely! I've never said otherwise. My point is that it can't be properly analyzed in isolation from what has come before, and is still fresh in our minds. Political exploitation has been strangling our country for a long time now, and this is just a new verse in the old chapter.

142 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:13:38pm

re: #141 ShanghaiEd

Absolutely! I've never said otherwise. My point is that it can't be properly analyzed in isolation from what has come before, and is still fresh in our minds. Political exploitation has been strangling our country for a long time now, and this is just a new verse in the old chapter.

SE ... then why did Obama and his supporters say he was NEW AND FRESH AND A CHANGE! ... oh, that's right because he is not ... he is just another guy running for office who just happened to ride the historic race train into the station ...

143 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:14:28pm

re: #137 JacksonTn

You first made the claim that Obama only won because of first time black voters who "didn't give a flying flip about their party before."

I provided evidence that Obama took 68% of all first time voters. Regardless of race. Which you ignored.

Reine has wisely pointed out that first time voters only made up 11% of the voting demographic anyway. Which you also ignored.

On top of all that, now you think you have some mystical insight into the motivations of black voters, and you genuinely think they only voted for Obama because he's black.

So you think not only do black voters "not give a flying flip about their country", but they don't even care about Obama--only that he's black.

I don't see any need to engage you further on this -- or anything else.

144 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:17:36pm

re: #143 iceweasel

You first made the claim that Obama only won because of first time black voters who "didn't give a flying flip about their party before."

I provided evidence that Obama took 68% of all first time voters. Regardless of race. Which you ignored.

Reine has wisely pointed out that first time voters only made up 11% of the voting demographic anyway. Which you also ignored.

On top of all that, now you think you have some mystical insight into the motivations of black voters, and you genuinely think they only voted for Obama because he's black.

So you think not only do black voters "not give a flying flip about their country", but they don't even care about Obama--only that he's black.

I don't see any need to engage you further on this -- or anything else.

IW ... PERFECT! ...

145 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:20:16pm

re: #139 ShanghaiEd

In the public sphere, the "right" ate the "left's" lunch for a decade or more, both legislatively and PR-wise; their aggressiveness came within a hair of achieving the "permanent majority" they spoke of so often. It's one of the great political success stories of the century, IMO. Which makes it even more ironic that so much could go to hell, so fast.

Ed-- I wonder what your thoughts are on this? What accounts for the collapse of the Republican message machine? Granted, they had two strikes against them: 1) the overwhelming unpopularity of the brand at that historical moment, and 2) the juggernaut of the Obama message machine-- but even so, I was amazed that after over a decade of knocking them out of the park, the Republicans couldn't seem to put a foot right when it came to running the 2008 campaign. Why do you think that was?

146 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:22:25pm

re: #142 JacksonTn

SE ... then why did Obama and his supporters say he was NEW AND FRESH AND A CHANGE! ... oh, that's right because he is not ... he is just another guy running for office who just happened to ride the historic race train into the station ...

Well, my guess would be because they were trying to win. :)

Of course he's not what the PR said. Why would you think I believed it?

147 Bear  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:24:56pm

On a bit lighter side, I recall reading in one of L. Beebe's books about Nevada that one of the elections there was honest by Nevada standards of the day because every man was paid for his vote.

148 Ringo the Gringo  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:29:49pm

Orly Taitz is also obsessed with the Bilderberg Group and some sort of conspiracy regarding the "Bird Flu"....I saw her a Tea Party here in LA but did not know who she was at the time.

Here's a picture I took of her back in April.

149 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:33:44pm

Hmmm. There are volumes to be written on this, and I look forward to reading them. In the meantime, my guess is that even the world's greatest PR team, which the GOP had, can only stay ahead of actual, bad events for so long. And once those events started to catch up with them, even minimally, they were so spoiled by what Karl Rove had achieved that they threw him under the proverbial bus.

There are many other parts of the puzzle, of course, but from my chair, the message machine's clockwork seemed to devolve almost from the day of Rove's farewell party. What do you guys think?

I'm going to confront a ham sandwich and mull on this further. BBIAB.

150 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:40:19pm

re: #148 Ringo the Gringo

Orly Taitz is also obsessed with the Bilderberg Group and some sort of conspiracy regarding the "Bird Flu"....I saw her a Tea Party here in LA but did not know who she was at the time.

Here's a picture I took of her back in April.

An actual sighting! Good work. By the way, the OC Register article made reference to her supposed hair coloring, heavy makeup, and low-cut blouse in its profile of her. I'm of two minds about that. One mind says it's a valid observation about how she presents herself to the world, the other mind wonders whether those details would have been mentioned if the conspiracist had been male. (Of course it would, if he had false eyelashes and a low-cut blouse, but you know what I mean...) What do you think?

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 7:59:18pm

re: #10 jcm

She's a stellar researcher. It's University of Washington in Seattle. There is a Seattle University a Jesuit school. Of course everyone of us in the Tacoma - Seattle - Everett metropolitan area knows the other 3 million people in the area on a first name basis.

You are from America! You must know my uncle. He lives in Philadelphia.

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 8:08:07pm

re: #35 dapperdave

Hi everyone, here's the you tube clip of an Obama youth group that I think was referred to in the article.



I find it a little disturbing.

Well, it's...interesting.

What's the group that organized it? Some of the orgs I've run into trying to push young black men to succeed tend to the slightly weird. Well-intentioned, but a tad odd.

153 sagehen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 8:38:37pm

re: #149 ShanghaiEd

There are many other parts of the puzzle, of course, but from my chair, the message machine's clockwork seemed to devolve almost from the day of Rove's farewell party. What do you guys think?

I can simplify it:

KATRINA.

154 BARACK THE VOTE  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 8:49:34pm

re: #149 ShanghaiEd


There are many other parts of the puzzle, of course, but from my chair, the message machine's clockwork seemed to devolve almost from the day of Rove's farewell party.

It's weird that the machine collapsed so completely with the departure of Rove. He was only one guy; you'd think the system he created would continue to hum along.

My only guesses are that they had a mountain of shit to climb out from under (like Katrina), and that the message machine was never all that enthused about McCain in the first place.

It's been one misstep after another though even post-election. Michael Steele has been a disaster.

155 doubter4444  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 8:57:34pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

I urge you to watch an LISTEN to the video again. Nice try re: the "If that's how you are determined to see it. Doesn't wash

Yes, they should be proud that a black man for the 1st time in our history was running for and ultimatley winning the presidency. But again, LISTEN to each as they recite the Oabam doctrines. You think it's "natural" for young teens? We're not talking about 19, college aged. Those are YOUNG teens. Show mw where young teens "recite politically conservative rhetoric" en mass

Good Lord, please.

156 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:01:56pm

re: #153 sagehen

I can simplify it:

KATRINA.

Katrina was another big turning point, I agree. Which demographic do you think it "turned" the most, and why?

157 doubter4444  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:13:20pm

re: #118 dapperdave

I don't know, I've never seen the right in this country come on as aggressive as the left. The closest I've seen was in the 80's.

Funny, I see it as just the opposite.
I'll give you the smugness and superciliousness and what ever, but actual violence?
Most real reports come from at least 30 years ago... unless you count the unibomber, and there is some discussion whether he's a left wing wacko.
I'll spot you ELF/ALF, though, because those are legitimate left-wing radicals in the mode of the 70's: Badder-Minehoff and SDS (yes, I'm old enough to remember them). Those guys were bad. So was Ayers.
To my knowledge, they (ELF/ALF) have torched and destructed, but not killed (please correct me if I'm wrong here).
And if there were deaths, I think they were collateral (not to excuse them, but it is different than murder), which to me is a whole different level.
Sort of like bombing a clinic and killing someone inside by accident, if you get the distinction.
Again, please I'm NOT CONDONING either.
But I don't remember a classic left-wing murder for a while.
But I could be wrong.

158 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:16:23pm

re: #154 iceweasel

It's weird that the machine collapsed so completely with the departure of Rove. He was only one guy; you'd think the system he created would continue to hum along.

My only guesses are that they had a mountain of shit to climb out from under (like Katrina), and that the message machine was never all that enthused about McCain in the first place.

It's been one misstep after another though even post-election. Michael Steele has been a disaster.

Rove was only one factor, true, but I believe a larger one than he's usually given credit for. And while he's technically "only one guy," nobody reaches that level of power and influence without a huge webwork of alliances both in high places and low. Though only Rove got the boot, his entire "faction" of believers was suddenly out of favor, even though they were still employed.

I'd love to know the real reason he was pushed out. I thought at the time it was his liability on the Plame case, but I'm sure that's over-simplifying. Whatever the reason, I think the GOP shot itself in both feet, big-time, by letting him go.

And once things start fouling up, that takes on its own momentum, just as success does. Michael Steele being one example, as you point out.

159 sagehen  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 9:48:47pm

re: #156 ShanghaiEd

Katrina was another big turning point, I agree. Which demographic do you think it "turned" the most, and why?

The people who thought Bush and/or GOP would keep us safe. The people who thought Republicans are practical, and good managers, and Homeland Security was a well-oiled machine, ready to respond to any event that may arise. The people who thought Bush had a grasp of the details, that he was "the CEO president." The people who believed his speeches and press releases about Iraq, until they saw for themselves that his speeches and press releases about New Orleans didn't match what was on their TV. The people who thought he made wise appointments ("heckuva a job, Brownie!").

The people who thought cutting his vacation short for Terry Schaivo was evidence of his deep concern for every American life, that he'd usurp state authority when people were in need -- and then discovered that one thirsty woman who happened to be a religious right cause celebre outweighed tens of thousands of thirsty women in a city that never voted Republican anyway. (I never thought his disinterest was racially motivated -- just that NOLA is full of Dems).

160 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:07:37pm

re: #159 sagehen

sagehen, you said a mouthful. Great distillation of that time and mindset, I think.

I had forgotten, until now, that when Bush started getting criticism over Katrina, his response was to appoint Karl Rove (!) in charge of redeveloping New Orleans. It seemed so surreal to me that it had to be a dark inside joke. That impression only grew when Rove didn't even make the pretense of meetings, committees, studies, etc. That whole Rove/N.O. episode was just a symbolic middle finger, I thought.

161 JacksonTn  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:11:09pm

re: #160 ShanghaiEd

sagehen, you said a mouthful. Great distillation of that time and mindset, I think.

I had forgotten, until now, that when Bush started getting criticism over Katrina, his response was to appoint Karl Rove (!) in charge of redeveloping New Orleans. It seemed so surreal to me that it had to be a dark inside joke. That impression only grew when Rove didn't even make the pretense of meetings, committees, studies, etc. That whole Rove/N.O. episode was just a symbolic middle finger, I thought.

SE .. I grew up in New Orleans ... everyone knew it would happen sooner or later ... there are many fingers to point in regards to what happened ... the State officials were not prepared and they should have been ... they should have been the first ones to act and be prepared ... Nagan was a complete idiot and reacted in the worst way .... the projects in New Orleans should have been torn down decades ago ... the state and local officials never did anything about them ... they knew very well what would happen to all those people if the major flooding came and they all knew at some point it would happen ... it does not excuse everything but Nagan needs to accept major responsibility ...

162 ShanghaiEd  Sat, Jun 20, 2009 10:23:32pm

re: #161 JacksonTn

... it does not excuse everything but Nagan needs to accept major responsibility ...

I agree. From what I can tell, the history books are already starting to assign Nagin, and others, their share of the blame. It's the kind of compounded tragedy that shouldn't happen in America, period.

163 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 4:19:02am

If there is nothing to be hidden, why hide it to begin with?

164 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 4:25:40am

re: #163 sighkobabl

If there is nothing to be hidden, why hide it to begin with?

Good question. Here's one for you: When did you stop beating your wife?

Show me the documents proving you stopped beating your wife. Please.

If you have nothing to hide, why won't you release them?

165 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 4:36:44am

re: #164 iceweasel

Good question. Here's one for you: When did you stop beating your wife?

Show me the documents proving you stopped beating your wife. Please.

If you have nothing to hide, why won't you release them?

Where would one go to get an official document of "I've stopped beating my wife"... where did you get yours?

166 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:01:23am

re: #165 sighkobabl

Where would one go to get an official document of "I've stopped beating my wife"... where did you get yours?

An official certificate of live birth issued by the State of Hawaii is available in various places for people to look at.

What is it you want?

167 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:03:44am

re: #160 ShanghaiEd

sagehen, you said a mouthful. Great distillation of that time and mindset, I think.

I had forgotten, until now, that when Bush started getting criticism over Katrina, his response was to appoint Karl Rove (!) in charge of redeveloping New Orleans. It seemed so surreal to me that it had to be a dark inside joke. That impression only grew when Rove didn't even make the pretense of meetings, committees, studies, etc. That whole Rove/N.O. episode was just a symbolic middle finger, I thought.

Why was it Bush had to appoint anybody?
Where was Nagin?
Where is Nagin?
Where was Blanco? (napping when she wasn't weeping on camera and failing to call in the state guard).
Where was W. Jefferson (commandeering rescue boats to get to his house and retrieve some mysterious something from his safe).

168 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:04:02am

re: #165 sighkobabl

Where would one go to get an official document of "I've stopped beating my wife"... where did you get yours?

You have moved beyond the realm of logic, my friend, if you cannot see that my facetious demand for your 'proof' that you've stopped beating your wife is strictly analogous to your demand that Obama 'must be hiding something, or why doesn't he disprove (insert crazy rumour of the moment here)?'

The fact that you think it makes sense to demand that I prove that I've stopped beating my wife-- after I confront you with the logical incoherence of your own demands-- proves that if people like you are in control of the republican party, you will spend the next 30 years yelling "neerer neerer, I know YOU are, but what am I, HUH?" from the political wilderness, and you'll deserve to do so.

169 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:06:01am

re: #168 iceweasel

IW - this guy/gal not in control of the Rep. party.

170 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:10:22am

Hiya, Jax'n.
People don't seem to understand the depth of corruption of NO, the where I was born and love and where I spent quite a few summers (and carnivals!)

N.O. problems began long before Katrina; that levee was already leaking, was going to break sooner or later anyway.

Complete lack of leadership - Nagin, Blanco - and then afterwards, the two of them spent half their time bickering over "who" was in charge. It was ugly.

171 JacksonTn  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:17:05am

re: #170 reine.de.tout

Hiya, Jax'n.
People don't seem to understand the depth of corruption of NO, the where I was born and love and where I spent quite a few summers (and carnivals!)

N.O. problems began long before Katrina; that levee was already leaking, was going to break sooner or later anyway.

Complete lack of leadership - Nagin, Blanco - and then afterwards, the two of them spent half their time bickering over "who" was in charge. It was ugly.

Reine ... Hey! ... yes, I feel that unless you have actually lived in the city it is really hard to understand the real story ... it is so easy to just blame the Bush administration for it all ... there are so many layers to New Orleans that can only be seen from the inside ... my sister lost her house in the flood ... growing up we always knew it was just a matter of time until New Orleans would one day be under water ... all past local administrations ignored it ... most people do not realize how many people in New Orleans city rent ... and they had no means to get out of the city ... but if you really know the story of New Orleans ... what happened was not a shock ...

Sad what happened but I was not at all surprised ... not one bit ... much blame to go around ... Blance and Nagin were pitiful ... I watched for days crying ... when I went back a couple of months after the flood I could not even find many streets in Lakeview ... the scab was just pulled off and things were exposed but without the real back story people don't understand and probably would not want to accept reality of what New Orleans real life was like ... I still love the city ... and my memories will always be with me ...

172 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:21:22am

re: #169 reine.de.tout

IW - this guy/gal not in control of the Rep. party.

No one said he/she or it is.

I think it's a losing strategy for Republicans in general, and for their party, to engage in yelling "We know we are, but what are you?"

If the GOP and republicans want to emulate the tactics of the Dems in 2000-2004, fine.

But let's remember the Dems lost in 2004. Yes, kerry sucked, but that isn't the only reason no one wanted to vote Dem then.

The Dems only won when they started to get over the lost election and stopped playing neener-neener games. Cf 2006. Cf doubly 2008.

173 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:23:20am

re: #168 iceweasel

You have moved beyond the realm of logic, my friend, if you cannot see that my facetious demand for your 'proof' that you've stopped beating your wife is strictly analogous to your demand that Obama 'must be hiding something, or why doesn't he disprove (insert crazy rumour of the moment here)?'

The fact that you think it makes sense to demand that I prove that I've stopped beating my wife-- after I confront you with the logical incoherence of your own demands-- proves that if people like you are in control of the republican party, you will spend the next 30 years yelling "neerer neerer, I know YOU are, but what am I, HUH?" from the political wilderness, and you'll deserve to do so.

All I did was ask a simple question which could be applied to any situation, you choose to replace that question with an accusation in an attempt to paint me as something I am not... why are the simplest of questions the hardest to answer?

174 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:28:16am

re: #171 JacksonTn

New Orleans is a beautiful and unique city and I treasure the few weeks I lived there, a couple of years before katrina.

I'm very sorry for your sister and her house. If you grew up there, I can't imagine the pain you're feeling.

It was such a beautiful city and I only lived there for a short time. Even so it breaks my heart to think of going there again even now, to the neighbourhoods I once briefly knew that are now so changed.

I'm sorry for your loss, and your families.

175 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:31:07am

re: #173 sighkobabl

All I did was ask a simple question which could be applied to any situation, you choose to replace that question with an accusation in an attempt to paint me as something I am not... why are the simplest of questions the hardest to answer?

No. That's not what you did.

You asked this:

If there is nothing to be hidden, why hide it to begin with?

And you were flummoxed when I asked you the same.

176 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:40:08am

re: #175 iceweasel

And you were flummoxed when I asked you the same.

You could have attempted to answer the question, but you didn't... sorry to have pointed that out to you.

177 TexasDude  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 6:41:34am

I hate the way this website makes fun of legitimate questions to the point that it dismisses the questions as not only absurd, but kooky.

For Charles Johnson to entertain the idea that Obama is not eligibile would help contribute to putting the entire American democrat in jeapordy.

So, in order to not have this crisis, he joins those who would rather appearance be reality than anything else.

There is a reason, amongst several other, that I don't read this site that much anymore.

At one time, it was derided that there was such as thing as an internal Communist threat, but we found it the threat was true and expansive.

Is Charles Johnson really just protecting our democracy or just keeping his head in the sand?

178 Ice-9  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 7:01:56am

re: #177 TexasDude

Is Charles Johnson really just protecting our democracy or just keeping his head in the sand?

He's protecting not just our democracy, but the entire American democrat.

179 ellem  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 7:05:18am

There is a slight difference here between

"THE 2000/4 ELECTION WAS STOLEN"
"HE WAS AWOL"
"WAR CRIMINAL"
"NEOCON PLOT"

and

"HE'S NOT A CITIZEN"

The MSM didn't report on He's not a citizen

180 TexasDude  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 7:16:55am

"He's protecting not just our democracy, but the entire American democrat."

I am going to assume you are referring to my mistyping.

Johnson is not entertaining Obama's birth origions is not protecting American democracy, but is most definately protecting the American Democrat. So, maybe in my lack of editing, a bit of truth shone through.

Obama did provide a birth certificate.

The problem, though, is that under Hawaiian laws at the time, the certificate may not be as reliable as normally would be.

For this, the tone of this website is set that that those who question Obama's legitimacy are the ones in question.

THAT is the not protecting democracy, that's for sure.

181 freetoken  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 7:34:46am

re: #179 ellem


"HE'S NOT A CITIZEN"

The MSM didn't report on He's not a citizen

Guess what, they don't pay much attention to"

"HE'S A SEKRIT MUSLIM"
"HE'S A MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE"

... either.

Wonder why?

182 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 8:19:45am

re: #172 iceweasel

No one said he/she or it is.

I think it's a losing strategy for Republicans in general, and for their party, to engage in yelling "We know we are, but what are you?"

If the GOP and republicans want to emulate the tactics of the Dems in 2000-2004, fine.

But let's remember the Dems lost in 2004. Yes, kerry sucked, but that isn't the only reason no one wanted to vote Dem then.

The Dems only won when they started to get over the lost election and stopped playing neener-neener games. Cf 2006. Cf doubly 2008.

Agreed.
And the R's will indeed need to do the same thing.

183 Throbert McGee  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 8:28:40am

"the all-civilian army. "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire "Obama wants to create a civilian army" thing based on a highly literal reading of ONE COMMENT that Obama made ONCE during his Presidential campaign, and that he never subsequently repeated?

184 LC LaWedgie  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 8:32:32am

Renegade: The Making of a President (Hardcover)
by Richard Wolffe

Everything else is conjecture.

185 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 8:38:59am

re: #180 TexasDude

Lucky for you, then, that in our democracy, you can find another blog to read.

186 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 8:40:29am

Charles Johnson has a little weblog which not even .1% of the American public visits.

And yet you seem offended by his refusal to acknowledge or take seriously your cause.

You seem to believe that Charles Johnson' influence is vast and determining of change in America.

You seem very excited by your view. Build a weblog, its free. Then have at it. Nobody will stop you. Problem is with your view though, that dog don't hunt.

187 TexasDude  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:19:50am

Here we go ...

'Unless you follow us, then leave.'

Wow, such wonderful rebuttals, such wonderful arguments ...

NOT.

188 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:33:29am

What do you know -- we do still have some Nirthers lurking around here!

189 swamprat  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:34:02am

re: #159 sagehen

Thanks for pointing out that the dems are incapable of doing anything and must have a republican to either save their nuts or be there to take the blame.
They would have done nothing about Iraq, but were happy to impede every move.
Now they are running all three branches of government; It's Bush's fault is going to wear mighty thin. But if we could take jon stewart using the same "bush is stupid" joke year after year, "saturday night live" trying to pretend that they are relevant while pushing the same load, and the new york times acting as a foreign agent, Then I'm sure we will survive.

I dislike the media, and that includes Fox. I'm tired of people telling me how to interpret the events of the day.

190 jaunte  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:40:09am

re: #187 TexasDude

Here's a pragmatic point against using the birth certificate/legitimacy argument. It is so marginal in utility that it taints all the other more legitimate policy arguments that any of its proponents might also have with the Obama administration. So moving into some more productive area of political argument is a sensible course.

191 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:46:19am

Of course, we could bring up the fact that the state of Hawaii has officially certified that they have Barack Obama's full, complete, original birth certificate on file. Or we could point out that BOTH major Hawaii newspapers, the Advertiser and the Star-Bulletin, printed birth announcements for Barack Obama in 1961.

We could bring up those facts, but it's pointless. Because Nirthers are in that zone where reality doesn't matter, evidence means nothing, and the conspiracy fever has taken over their brains. They'll just dismiss any facts you try to tell them. It's the right wing version of 9/11 Trutherism.

192 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:47:32am

So, now even a hint of curiosity into select(ed) political subjects is mandated a marginilization and ridiculing response by the group dictated think squad...

Where does this leave us?

193 jaunte  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:48:47am

re: #192 sighkobabl

Argue about something that has a chance of succeeding in convincing the vast middle of the voting public. This isn't it.

194 swamprat  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 9:54:24am

re: #180 TexasDude

He's president.
We need to support him.
He certainly doesn't have the experience, or background I would have chosen, but he has moxie.
Good luck to him.
He was born in America. There is no rational way to believe otherwise if you fully examine the timelines and the evidence. Possibly he is hiding a birth certificate that indicates that mama was not married, because I have heard that some places used to do this, but I am just speculating. He has the right to not release his certificate. It might be because Farrakhan is his papa. We just don't know. Personally, I think Senator Byrd was his daddy, but that's just me.
The truth is that he a Nigerian Secret Agent sent to bring us freer access to monies supplied by recently deceased dignitaries of various kinds, so we won't need health-care.

195 Jimmah  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:03:20am

re: #192 sighkobabl

So, now even a hint of curiosity into select(ed) political subjects is mandated a marginilization and ridiculing response by the group dictated think squad...

Where does this leave us?

It leaves you in a small room with Dylan Avery, Alex Jones and all the other fact-ignoring conspiracy theorists who when debunked and dismissed whine in just this way:

'we were only asking questions but the brainwashed sheeple wouldn't listen'.

196 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:05:43am

re: #193 jaunte

re: #192 sighkobabl

Argue about something that has a chance of succeeding in convincing the vast middle of the voting public. This isn't it.


My interest concerning this point lays in influencing and forwarding the systematic process of elimination and conclusion based on pure facts, not influencing opinion and knee-jerk emotional response and rhetoric.

Having a natural curiosity on any topic isn’t something I'm going to apologize to anyone for having... when conclusive facts are presented or provided, my curiosity will subside without emotional attachment... evidence suggests that in the matter of Mr. Obama's birth certificate, we're not at the point today... otherwise, we would not be having this dialog.

197 swamprat  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:07:56am

Both the left and the right have more than their share of whiners, they just choose to whine about different things.

Out to work on the patio.

Later, lizards.

198 jaunte  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:08:14am

re: #196 sighkobabl

Ok, keep on going, then.

199 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:13:02am

re: #192 sighkobabl

There is a cavern in Dulce New Mexico where Alien lizardoids fight daily battles against Delta Force and Charles Johnson is the supreme leader of the invading alien army.

/Of course it isnt true but that doesnt matter because since I can express that concern it is therefore valid for discussion with folks who could care less about my inability to accept and embrace reality.

Its bullshit. No matter how you paint it. Obama, who I do not like and do not support, was born In the US in 1961.

200 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:16:07am

re: #195 Jimmah

re: #192 sighkobabl


It leaves you in a small room with Dylan Avery, Alex Jones and all the other fact-ignoring conspiracy theorists who when debunked and dismissed whine in just this way:

'we were only asking questions but the brainwashed sheeple wouldn't listen'.

Shrug...

And?

Please provide iron clad proof for your "debunked and dismissed" claim... seriously, beyond hyperbole, what do you base this on?

Again, I'm only asking for facts here... when did this become a problem? Curiosity is now a crime?

201 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:26:21am

re: #200 sighkobabl

Your curiosity isnt being dismissed. Your inability to accept reality is humorous an just a little bit saddening.

Obama won. Obama is an American citizen born in the US.

You can get your feelings hurt and piss and moan about how your cause not being taken seriousy here all you want. Yu can accuse Charles or commentors here of anything you want. The issue isnt that we're dismissing your concern. The issue is that you arent capable of accepting reality.

You are,I am sorry, a simp.

202 Jimmah  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:46:55am

re: #200 sighkobabl

Shrug...

And?

Please provide iron clad proof for your "debunked and dismissed" claim... seriously, beyond hyperbole, what do you base this on?

As Charles stated in post 191:

Of course, we could bring up the fact that the state of Hawaii has officially certified that they have Barack Obama's full, complete, original birth certificate on file. Or we could point out that BOTH major Hawaii newspapers, the Advertiser and the Star-Bulletin, printed birth announcements for Barack Obama in 1961.

We could bring up those facts, but it's pointless.

Again, I'm only asking for facts here... when did this become a problem? Curiosity is now a crime?

The problem arises when you ignore facts that have already been put to you so that you can persist in your paranoia.

204 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:53:22am

re: #201 justdanny

Your curiosity isnt being dismissed. Your inability to accept reality is humorous an just a little bit saddening.

Obama won. Obama is an American citizen born in the US.

You can get your feelings hurt and piss and moan about how your cause not being taken seriousy here all you want. Yu can accuse Charles or commentors here of anything you want. The issue isnt that we're dismissing your concern. The issue is that you arent capable of accepting reality.

You are,I am sorry, a simp.

I haven't taken a stance on any of the points you're using to attack me, which says more about you than it does me.

Again, my interest is in facts... presenting evaluating including eliminating and concluding... nothing more, nothing less.

205 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:57:14am

re: #202 Jimmah

The problem arises when you ignore facts that have already been put to you so that you can persist in your paranoia.

Great... so why hide what doesn't need to be hidden?

I'm not paranoid, racist, crazy, or partisan... just curious....

Your anger and paranoia makes me even more curious.

206 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 10:59:56am

re: #205 sighkobabl

So, if I come to your house and hold your hand and walk you slowly through the evidence that Obama is an American born in the United States in 1961, would that make you feel better?

Can you see? Is the problem that you are blind, and because you cannot see evidence you cannot accept it?

207 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:06:08am

re: #206 justdanny

So, if I come to your house and hold your hand and walk you slowly through the evidence that Obama is an American born in the United States in 1961, would that make you feel better?

Can you see? Is the problem that you are blind, and because you cannot see evidence you cannot accept it?

No, that's OK... links to reputable sources and FACTS will do.

You see, Science can be a very a simple thing... you evaluate hypothesizes until they become fact.

The process of elimination... On this topic, we're simply not there yet... sorry, insult me all you want, but it won't change that FACT.

208 Jimmah  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:06:39am

re: #205 sighkobabl

Great... so why hide what doesn't need to be hidden?

I'm not paranoid, racist, crazy, or partisan... just curious....

Whatever the reason it's not to hide that he is not a US citizen. That idea is clearly idiotic, in the light of the facts. But think about this: why should Obama go out of his way to stop conservatives who are falling for this make a laughing stock of themselves? That alone would seem like a good enough reason to me.

Your anger and paranoia makes me even more curious.

Now I'm curious as to what I've said here that you think indicates anger or paranoia. Quote please!

209 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:12:05am

re: #208 Jimmah

Now I'm curious as to what I've said here that you think indicates anger or paranoia. Quote please!

My concern isn't with forwarding a political party or belief, just the facts please... I couldn't care less if the truth hurts or helps Republicans or Democrats... just Americans.

The only thing I've seen forwarded thus far is opinion...

210 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:41:29am

1. What would qualify as proof to you, sighkobabl?

This page is packed with links to proof any reasonable person would accept.

You obviously have no understanding of the scientific process. If you did, you would follow the links provided here.

2. So you are actually physically unable to see? You are blind?

211 jaunte  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:42:48am

re: #210 justdanny

Morton's Demon.

212 Jimmah  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:42:50am

re: #209 sighkobabl

The only thing I've seen forwarded thus far is opinion...

No, you have had facts put under your nose but you keep pretending they aren't there.

213 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:54:48am

re: #211 jaunte

I actually know who this person is. I used to think a lot of her. She needed lots of attennion back when I knew her and I grew to be ok with that. Some people are needy despite any doing of their own. So sometimes I can grow to accomodate them. Now it seems like she's gotten a lot worse. Its sad really. I mean honestly, sad.

My last post disallows her to respond. But this sentence insures she will. Watch how she cant answer this simple question.

2. So you are actually physically unable to see? You are blind?

214 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 11:56:26am

The name she uses now is Psycho Babble. Thats a start. At least she recognizes her illness.

215 Ice-9  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 12:47:24pm

re: #180 TexasDudeI am going to assume you are referring to my mistyping.

Yeah, I was. Have a cookie.

But I was also referring to how much of a loon you, an apparent Nirther, sound like. Coincidence? I think not.

216 sighkobabl  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 2:02:58pm

Main Entry: Fact
Pronunciation: ˈfakt
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin factum, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere
Date: 15th century
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime
4 a: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth

Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: ə-ˈpin-yən
Function: noun
Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
Date:14th century
1 a: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b: approval, esteem
2 a: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b: a generally held view
3 a: a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b: the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based


Learn it, know it, live it...

217 justdanny  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 2:20:32pm

Just as I suspected. You cant answer a simple question. Go away. Done with you. Good luck trying to get people to pay attention to your severely broken ass elsewhere.

218 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 3:31:56pm
219 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 5:31:21pm

re: #183 Throbert McGee

"the all-civilian army. "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire "Obama wants to create a civilian army" thing based on a highly literal reading of ONE COMMENT that Obama made ONCE during his Presidential campaign, and that he never subsequently repeated?

Hey, Throb, what happened to your rainbow elephant?

220 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Jun 21, 2009 5:53:30pm

re: #205 sighkobabl

Your anger and paranoia makes me even more curious.

No one is 'angry' or 'paranoid' about your nirther claims. We are, rather, 'weary', 'amused', and 'occasionally slightly irked'.

And you are not 'curious', except in the sense of 'being unusual or an anomaly'.
If you were 'curious', in the sense of 'inquiring', you'd have read Charles' comment above and followed any of the many excellent links provided for you on this subject.


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