Video: Iran Cracks Down Harder
World • Views: 1,920
385 comments
1 |
kansas Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:52:52am |
I guess the Iranian protesters don't have any guns of their own?
| 2 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:53:18am |
Report this morning that some Military commanders may be siding with the protestors. Tipping point!
| 4 |
Wendya Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:54:23am |
re: #1 kansas
I guess the Iranian protesters don't have any guns of their own?
I imagine at this point if they did and they were to run out into the streets with an AK, they would be mistaken for the militia by other protesters.
| 5 |
Irish Rose Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:54:31am |
Good afternoon, lizards!
Things are going from bad to worse in Iran, I pray for the innocents.
| 6 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:54:50am |
Here’s a video report on the latest developments in Iran from Richard Engel at NBC News. Note that the Iranian regime now refers to the protesters as “terrorists.”
And a statement from Obama calling them "Freedom Fighters" in 5...4...3...2...1... (crickets). I returned you to your regularly scheduled hope and change.
| 7 |
kansas Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:55:15am |
re: #4 Wendya
I imagine at this point if they did and they were to run out into the streets with an AK, they would be mistaken for the militia by other protesters.
Don't run into the street, take a high position in a window.
| 8 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:55:27am |
The Iranian regime isn't above calling the protesters terrorists. They've previously stated that Westerners - Jews and the US/UK specifically, are behind the demonstrations. It's projection and anti-Semitic tinged at that.
It's what totalitarian regimes do.
This is going to hurt the already reeling Iranian economy. The regime has no one to blame but themselves. They brought it upon themselves through their actions, and their desperation to throw the elections showed just how willing they were to throw away the thin veneer of "democracy" to retain power under what has always been a totalitarian regime directed from the top via the Supreme Ayatollah through the President and prior to that Prime Minister.
| 9 |
quickslow87 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:55:44am |
The protesters need to grab the guns. Go Iranian people!
| 10 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:56:24am |
re: #1 kansas
I guess the Iranian protesters don't have any guns of their own?
No - and there was a tweet earlier on, by 'Stopahmadi', warning that thos tweets calling for violence against the police etc were coming from government sites.
The dissenters want peaceful protests, they do not want to fight a bloody street battle with weapons.
It may come to that ...
| 11 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:56:38am |
Shirood Sports Compound being used as a base:
| 12 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:57:29am |
Notice the smooth BBC English accent of the regime news presenter?
| 14 |
J.S. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:58:20am |
A Canadian-Iranian journalist, Maziar Bahari, working for Newsweek has been arrested (taken into custody/detained by Iranian authorities, for some unknown reason). The authorities have also confiscated his laptop with pictures/videos, etc. Newsweek is demanding his release...
| 15 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:59:51am |
re: #2 NelsFree
Report this morning that some Military commanders may be siding with the protestors. Tipping point!
I'd love a link...
Here's cautiously hoping you are right. if iran turns a new leaf, it will be positive proof that God loves america, that right when we had a complete wimp in the white house, many of our problems solved themselves.
| 16 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 11:59:51am |
I suppose that NBC report was nice for people who don't have access to a computer, but there was nothing new in that "news" piece.
| 17 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:00:14pm |
re: #14 J.S.
A Canadian-Iranian journalist, Maziar Bahari, working for Newsweek has been arrested (taken into custody/detained by Iranian authorities, for some unknown reason). The authorities have also confiscated his laptop with pictures/videos, etc. Newsweek is demanding his release...
Well, I guess Newsweek didn't hear what president Obama said about not meddling in the internal affairs of Iran.
Bad, Newsweek, Bad.
| 18 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:00:15pm |
I hope they do call a general strike and hurt the regime any way they can. Going for the wallet is always good.
| 19 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:00:45pm |
re: #2 NelsFree
Report this morning that some Military commanders may be siding with the protestors. Tipping point!
re: #12 Kenneth
Notice the smooth BBC English accent of the regime news presenter?
I wonder how much firepower resides in the regular army vs. the brute squads? That could be very telling when push comes to shoot.
Between that and the use of the lexicon "terrorist" to describe the protesters there is no doubt the propaganda mill is seeking to engage western public opinion. Does anyone with access and an understanding of the Iranian broadcasts for internal consumption know if there is a significant difference in the tenor and language being used?
| 20 |
srb1976 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:01:26pm |
re: #10 yma o hyd
No - and there was a tweet earlier on, by 'Stopahmadi', warning that thos tweets calling for violence against the police etc were coming from government sites.
The dissenters want peaceful protests, they do not want to fight a bloody street battle with weapons.
It may come to that ...
After all that's happened, it would be hard to blame the protesters for being angry enough to want confrontation. I am more impressed than ever by the ones who want peaceful protests.
| 21 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:01:32pm |
Brief update, with cartoon.
Interesting is this:
'anyway, a lot of older people who lived thru 57 [1978-79 revolution] say this is not over. they say the protests against the shah started in 42 and it took that many years for the people to topple him, and that today’s version will be quicker… back then there was only bbc radio; now there’s TV and internet and mobiles, so ultimately all this will come to fruition more rapidly …'
| 22 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:01:34pm |
re: #18 Sharmuta
I hope they do call a general strike and hurt the regime any way they can. Going for the wallet is always good.
Mmm, i prefer a few bullets in the heads of President Mahmoud Ahmadanutjob (or however you spell it), but i willl take what i can get.
| 23 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:02:10pm |
re: #15 A.W.
...if iran turns a new leaf, it will be positive proof that God loves america, that right when we had a complete wimp in the white house, many of our problems solved themselves.
...or proof that God hates Republicans. //
| 24 |
JammieWearingFool Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:02:38pm |
Our own government also refers to protesters as low level terrorists.
| 25 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:02:49pm |
re: #23 DaddyG
...or proof that God hates Republicans. //
Well, fair enough, but we have to want what is best for america, even if a democrat gets the credit.
| 27 |
opnion Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:03:38pm |
That emails are now being sent alleging that the young womans death is a hoax is about what you would expect.
I wouldn't be suprised to see what that said, "Greetings, I am being named Joe, just a regular guy being from Toledo, not being Iranian at all.
Girls death ees big lie. This is just anti Islamicc stuff, not that I am being Muslim or Iranian. No, just Joe from toledo."
| 28 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:03:55pm |
re: #18 Sharmuta
I hope they do call a general strike and hurt the regime any way they can. Going for the wallet is always good.
It looks as if the bazaars may stay shut tomorrow.
When the bazaaris shut down, the Shah regime was finished.
If that really happens tomorrow, Khamenei will be in even deeper trouble.
(This was reported earlier in tweets by Jim Sciutto, ABC)
| 29 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:03:56pm |
Well this has already gotten more bloody and violent and lasted longer than I ever thought, so I am no expert on this that is for sure. But still, I just don't see the Mullah's walking away from power?
| 30 |
Pianobuff Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:03:57pm |
As much as I may think I have to complain about, I'm reminded how fortunate we are in America that we have a legacy of peaceful transitions of power between administrations.
Despite my personal issues with how things are being run here, I have to take a breath and be grateful.
| 31 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:04:03pm |
We can't live with a nuclear Iran. The only glimmer of hope that we can prevent it is to oust the current regime. I don't care about their accusations of foreign interference -- they're only saying that to keep us at bay. But we should interfere. For the sake of world peace. If Obama won't do it publicly, I want to see arms put into the hands of the Iranian protesters. I want our military in Iraq to get arms across the border to the opposition, just as Iran has been arming the opposition within Iraq against us. And/or some highly trained SEALs or Army Ranger teams undercover in Tehran taking out Basiji snipers with extreme prejudice. Let them start experience stark fear at simply being in public. If 25 or 50 Basijis on rooftops with sniper rifles are later found dead, that would send a ripple of panic through their ranks and create mass defections -- and perhaps could be the tipping point.
Yes, we did it in 1953, and we can do it again. I am not apologetic.
| 32 |
JammieWearingFool Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:04:18pm |
re: #24 JammieWearingFool
Our own government also refers to protesters as low level terrorists.
Forgot the link.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
| 33 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:05:27pm |
re: #27 opnion
That emails are now being sent alleging that the young womans death is a hoax is about what you would expect.
I wouldn't be suprised to see what that said, "Greetings, I am being named Joe, just a regular guy being from Toledo, not being Iranian at all.
Girls death ees big lie. This is just anti Islamicc stuff, not that I am being Muslim or Iranian. No, just Joe from toledo."
"Her death is a big lie. Also, I am a protester in iran fleeing to nigeria. if you open an account and give me $1,000 i will put in $50 million into the same account and you will be allowed to keep 10% or $5 milliion."
Heh.
| 34 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:05:38pm |
re: #31 zombie
Well we had people on the ground in 53 and ties to both the "Mullahs" and the " Military". Today, thanks in part to Jimmah, we don't have that.
| 35 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:06:27pm |
re: #28 yma o hyd
It looks as if the bazaars may stay shut tomorrow.
When the bazaaris shut down, the Shah regime was finished.
If that really happens tomorrow, Khamenei will be in even deeper trouble.(This was reported earlier in tweets by Jim Sciutto, ABC)
Was it you that posted the picture of the mullahs out protesting with the people earlier? That was amazing. This report also says there are cracks in te regime at this point. I think they're in trouble.
| 36 |
MJ Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:06:35pm |
The Associated Press reports that the family of Neda Soltan was barred from having a public funeral for her but, even so, the images of her killing are spreading inside Iran...
[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]
| 37 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:06:56pm |
re: #25 A.W.
Well, fair enough, but we have to want what is best for america, even if a democrat gets the credit.
I wish Bush would have been offered that courtesy by even the "neutral" press.
IMO if we did what was best for Americans there wouldn't be an inexperienced Democrat community organizer in the White House so busy reengineering capitalism into corporatism he can't be bothered to form an opinion on world events.
But dwelling on it would be soooooo 2008. I'll just work towards 2010 and hope some of my fellow citizens gain some sanity in the mean time.
| 38 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:07:15pm |
OMG Extremely graphic video I just found via one of the tweets:
Saw something yesterday about the Basij using razors. I wonder if that is what happened here.
GRAPHIC
| 39 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:07:23pm |
re: #15 A.W.
I'd love a link...
Here's cautiously hoping you are right. if iran turns a new leaf, it will be positive proof that God loves america, that right when we had a complete wimp in the white house, many of our problems solved themselves.
It was a comment made on Fox & Friends this AM based on Twitter. No linky I can findy at this time. Probably the regular Armed forces, not the Revolutionary Guards Qods Forces. By the way, Iranian law states that only Muslims can be commissioned officers in Iranian military.
| 40 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:07:43pm |
re: #34 Nevergiveup
Well we had people on the ground in 53 and ties to both the "Mullahs" and the " Military". Today, thanks in part to Jimmah, we don't have that.
Yes, but we have 10 million sympathizers to host/help/guide us once we're on the ground in Iran, and we have the best army in the world just across the border in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's do-able.
| 41 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:08:57pm |
re: #29 Nevergiveup
Well this has already gotten more bloody and violent and lasted longer than I ever thought, so I am no expert on this that is for sure. But still, I just don't see the Mullah's walking away from power?
Nor do I - bit they seem to be plotting against Khamenei.
according to some tweets earlier, Mousavi was in Qom today, talking with the Mullahs there, and Rafsanjani was rumoured to ahve been in Qom as well.
Both Grand Ayatollah Montazeri and Ayatollah Khatami have protested againts what is happening - and Rafsanjani is an enemy of Khamenei ...
More impressive even were the photos of Mullahs taking part in the demos.
The Mullahs must know that they can only hang on to their power if the get rid of Khamenei and Ahmadinejad - but even if they do, that may be too late now.
| 42 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:09:34pm |
| 43 |
opnion Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:09:36pm |
re: #33 A.W.
"Her death is a big lie. Also, I am a protester in iran fleeing to nigeria. if you open an account and give me $1,000 i will put in $50 million into the same account and you will be allowed to keep 10% or $5 milliion."
Heh.
I'm in!
| 44 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:09:50pm |
re: #40 zombie
Yes, but we have 10 million sympathizers to host/help/guide us once we're on the ground in Iran, and we have the best army in the world just across the border in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's do-able.
Well maybe, but that is also a recipe for a major cluster-fuck! And with this administration, gee I am not so sure about that approach. Not to mention, that that will get me called up for sure. Not that I'd mind but wow....
| 45 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:11:17pm |
re: #38 Pvt Bin Jammin
OMG Extremely graphic video I just found via one of the tweets:
[Video]Saw something yesterday about the Basij using razors. I wonder if that is what happened here.
GRAPHIC
Dang, they slashed that guy's femoral artery. He is in danger of bleeding to death.
| 46 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:11:20pm |
re: #41 yma o hyd
I'll be watching. Seems as reasoned as any I've heard.
| 47 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:12:01pm |
re: #40 zombie
I think your idea is unrealistic. But you go ahead an volunteer for the mission first.
| 48 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:12:06pm |
re: #35 Sharmuta
Was it you that posted the picture of the mullahs out protesting with the people earlier? That was amazing. This report also says there are cracks in te regime at this point. I think they're in trouble.
Yep - that was a link which was tweeted much earlier today.
I am just so amazed at how they get these tweets out, and at how they keep going - and especially at how vigilant they are.
Its not as if the government is not doing its utmost to silence them.
One twitter said, the government hacked into some of their PCs, it took them hours to rectify.
| 49 |
Rexatosis Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:12:09pm |
This is getting really bad, with the Mullahs bringing in the Militia and Hezbos from outside Iran it seems the Mullahs are not confident in the Army shooting down protesters. But the limited use of the RG indicates the Ayatollah may not be sure he has their full support or fully trusts the RG to support his policy. The RG may be thugs and fanatical but they are Iranian, one has to wonder how the RG officers feel about having foreigners (Hezbos) shooting/killing their fellow Persians down in the street. Bringing in foreign mercs is a traditional sign of the weakness or corruptness of a state. The seizure (arrest) of select family members has all the traditional earmarks of a relatively weak medieval monarch trying to neutralize potential rivals while dealing with a peasant uprising or rebellion. Even if the Mullahs put down this specific set of protests/uprisings the fundamental weaknesses of the Iranian State are evident since it must rely on foreign fighters to defend it's government and take hostages to neutralize potential political opponents from within the "Islamic Republic" itself.
| 50 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:12:30pm |
re: #40 zombie
Yes, but we have 10 million sympathizers to host/help/guide us once we're on the ground in Iran, and we have the best army in the world just across the border in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's do-able.
Unfortunately we demonstrated very clearly vis a vis the Kurds that we're not the best allies in cases of popular uprisings against dictators. Sure we show up a decade later but I suspect lining up the 4th ID on the border wouldn't help the cause of freedom as much as galvanize the dictators position.
The fact that the US press and political left is willing to throw anyone under the bus to make the right and millitary look bad isn't going to give them confidence in us either. Whatever we do must be covert enough to keep the Mullahs and company from using us to legitimize their crackdown.
| 51 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:12:43pm |
OT - I just have to share this local blog post:
[Link: www.washingtoncitypaper.com...]
| 52 |
opnion Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:13:26pm |
re: #44 Nevergiveup
Well maybe, but that is also a recipe for a major cluster-fuck! And with this administration, gee I am not so sure about that approach. Not to mention, that that will get me called up for sure. Not that I'd mind but wow....
I don't think that it is clear that Obama is simpatico with the protesters.
Early on he said some conciliatory things about the Regime.
| 53 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:13:29pm |
re: #44 Nevergiveup
Well maybe, but that is also a recipe for a major cluster-fuck! And with this administration, gee I am not so sure about that approach. Not to mention, that that will get me called up for sure. Not that I'd mind but wow....
I'm not talking about overt invasion. I'm talking about:
- smuggling weapons to the opposition groups, so they can start shooting back.
- "injecting" undercover military SWAT teams to take out the most effective government assassins/enforcers.
| 54 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:13:35pm |
re: #31 zombie
We can't live with a nuclear Iran. The only glimmer of hope that we can prevent it is to oust the current regime. I don't care about their accusations of foreign interference -- they're only saying that to keep us at bay. But we should interfere. For the sake of world peace. If Obama won't do it publicly, I want to see arms put into the hands of the Iranian protesters. I want our military in Iraq to get arms across the border to the opposition, just as Iran has been arming the opposition within Iraq against us.
The ultimate irony...Iranian weapons that were smuggled into Iraq, smuggled into Iran to support the protestors overthrow. Heh.
| 56 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:14:11pm |
re: #50 DaddyG
Both the Mullahs and the Liberal in this country would go bat shit crazy! I am not sure who would stroke out first?
| 57 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:14:14pm |
re: #38 Pvt Bin Jammin
I was just about to post that one.
| 58 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:14:14pm |
re: #47 Kenneth
I think your idea is unrealistic. But you go ahead an volunteer for the mission first.
Not the ol' chickenhawk argument again. Fail.
| 59 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:14:18pm |
re: #45 zombie
Dang, they slashed that guy's femoral artery. He is in danger of bleeding to death.
It doesn't look good for that young man.
| 60 |
Desert Dog Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:14:46pm |
re: #54 NelsFree
The ultimate irony...Iranian weapons that were smuggled into Iraq, smuggled into Iran to support the
protestorsoverthrow. Heh.
Yes, send some of those "molten copper" shaped charged IED's that have killed countless Americans.....give them a taste of their own medicine...the bastards
| 61 |
Racer X Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:14:55pm |
Haven't we made allies in Iraq and Afghanistan? Can't we call on those folks to help us push things in Iran? A little help here and there to let the people know we support them? Maybe some fireworks?
I'm just sayin.
i don't expect a news conference on this one either.
Shhhh.
| 62 |
BringMeTuri Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:05pm |
| 63 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:14pm |
re: #48 yma o hyd
Yep - that was a link which was tweeted much earlier today.
I am just so amazed at how they get these tweets out, and at how they keep going - and especially at how vigilant they are.
Its not as if the government is not doing its utmost to silence them.One twitter said, the government hacked into some of their PCs, it took them hours to rectify.
This could get really interesting. If we see a mini-coup here, one that favors "reformists" we could see a true coup down the road. Countries tend towards revolution during times of reform, not oppression.
| 64 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:19pm |
re: #53 zombie
I'm not talking about overt invasion. I'm talking about:
- smuggling weapons to the opposition groups, so they can start shooting back.
- "injecting" undercover military SWAT teams to take out the most effective government assassins/enforcers.
Oh OK, I'll unpack my Cammie's.
| 65 |
Desert Dog Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:26pm |
| 66 |
LGoPs Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:29pm |
This would be one of those times when an effective CIA would pay great dividends. Unfortuantely we don't have one, largely due to the efforts of Democrats starting with Frank Church.
| 67 |
Buck Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:38pm |
re: #40 zombie
Yes, but we have 10 million sympathizers to host/help/guide us once we're on the ground in Iran, and we have the best army in the world just across the border in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's do-able.
And then what do we do? Occupy Iran? Hand it over to Mousavi? And what army will he use to hold it?
And if he does get power how do we know he wont run through the population killing anyone who opposed him?
Nope, it is best to stand by and let the regime change all on it's own. The people of Iran are doing what the Iraqi's were to cowardly to do. TRY to over throw the oppressive regime.
| 68 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:52pm |
re: #52 opnion
I don't think that it is clear that Obama is simpatico with the protesters.
Early on he said some conciliatory things about the Regime.
Obama is taking his consistent position of painful lack of substance and real position in order to allow people to project their own hopes and image on his blank slate. It has worked well for him up to this point in his career.
PRESENT of the United States.
| 69 |
the_flying_pig Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:15:57pm |
I hate to say this but the DHS report on right-wing/left-wing extremism is the steppingstone to branding anyone who protest or demonstrate against a federal/state/local government as a "terrorist". Check out the fuss over Virginia State Police Fusion Center's report designating Americans as "terrorists" which prompted the Governor of Virginia to order an investigation on VSPFC.
Now you're seeing where the Iranian regime getting the funny idea from?
| 70 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:16:12pm |
| 71 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:16:16pm |
re: #50 DaddyG
Unfortunately we demonstrated very clearly vis a vis the Kurds that we're not the best allies in cases of popular uprisings against dictators. Sure we show up a decade later but I suspect lining up the 4th ID on the border wouldn't help the cause of freedom as much as galvanize the dictators position.
The fact that the US press and political left is willing to throw anyone under the bus to make the right and millitary look bad isn't going to give them confidence in us either. Whatever we do must be covert enough to keep the Mullahs and company from using us to legitimize their crackdown.
Again, I am not advocating invasion. I'm simply saying we have the infrastructure in the immediate vicinity to help the protesters with arms, and to do some selective helping vis-a-vis targetting the basiji. All sub-rosa.
| 72 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:16:25pm |
re: #66 LGoPs
This would be one of those times when an effective CIA would pay great dividends. Unfortuantely we don't have one, largely due to the efforts of Democrats starting with Frank Church.
and what, pray tell, would the CIA be doing?
| 73 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:16:47pm |
re: #66 LGoPs
This would be one of those times when an effective CIA would pay great dividends. Unfortuantely we don't have one, largely due to the efforts of Democrats starting with Frank Church.
Fuckin Frank Church. Did more to hurt this country than almost anyone else not in jail for treason. And I am not kidding.
| 74 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:16:51pm |
re: #56 Nevergiveup
Both the Mullahs and the Liberal in this country would go bat shit crazy! I am not sure who would stroke out first?
Heh. That would be a plus for Zombie's position on this matter. Perhaps we can get a twofer out of it.
| 75 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:16:52pm |
I don't know how people can watch this. It is breaking my heart hearing about it.
| 76 |
Yashmak Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:18:03pm |
Terrorist huh? Just goes to show how a label can be mis-used to justify all kinds of terrible acts.
| 77 |
Racer X Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:18:04pm |
re: #55 abu lahab
From your link:
"Long-distance flights of around 3,600 km (2,237 miles) along with aerial refuelling from tanker to fighter jet and from fighter jet to fighter jet will be part of this exercise," state broadcaster IRIB's website reported.
This I have to see.
| 78 |
LGoPs Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:18:50pm |
re: #72 SpaceJesus
and what, pray tell, would the CIA be doing?
The things that the President can not or will not do publicly......that's what.
| 79 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:18:51pm |
re: #38 Pvt Bin Jammin
OMG Extremely graphic video I just found via one of the tweets:
Saw something yesterday about the Basij using razors. I wonder if that is what happened here.
GRAPHIC
I heard, at 0:32, someone shout in English, "Get off the equipment!".
| 80 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:18:52pm |
| 81 |
opnion Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:19:00pm |
re: #68 DaddyG
Obama is taking his consistent position of painful lack of substance and real position in order to allow people to project their own hopes and image on his blank slate. It has worked well for him up to this point in his career.
PRESENT of the United States.
I do believe that this is another moment when Obama is demonstrating that he is not up to the challenge of the job.
| 82 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:19:03pm |
Basijis being beaten-up
Check out the woman in the blue hijab at about 0:40. She gives herself a little applause after hitting the Basij.
| 83 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:19:13pm |
re: #38 Pvt Bin Jammin
Listen to that soundtrack: hundreds of gun shots re: #58 zombie
No, not the chickenhawk argument. But putting US Seals or Rangers into Tehran would not help the Iranian democracy activists. It would unite the regime and any factions which are now opening. I would love to hear more supportive language from Obama, but sending in snipers is quite a bit beyond that.
| 84 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:19:43pm |
re: #67 Buck
And then what do we do? Occupy Iran? Hand it over to Mousavi? And what army will he use to hold it?
And if he does get power how do we know he wont run through the population killing anyone who opposed him?
Nope, it is best to stand by and let the regime change all on it's own. The people of Iran are doing what the Iraqi's were to cowardly to do. TRY to over throw the oppressive regime.
I'm being misunderstood here -- I am not advocating military action. I only mentioned our armies nearby as being the staging areas for getting weapons or undercover teams across the border.
| 85 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:20:29pm |
re: #50 DaddyG
Unfortunately we demonstrated very clearly vis a vis the Kurds that we're not the best allies in cases of popular uprisings against dictators. Sure we show up a decade later but I suspect lining up the 4th ID on the border wouldn't help the cause of freedom as much as galvanize the dictators position.
The fact that the US press and political left is willing to throw anyone under the bus to make the right and millitary look bad isn't going to give them confidence in us either. Whatever we do must be covert enough to keep the Mullahs and company from using us to legitimize their crackdown.
We've been building up independence movements and dropping them off cliffs since the Bay of Pigs.
| 86 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:20:37pm |
re: #63 Sharmuta
This could get really interesting. If we see a mini-coup here, one that favors "reformists" we could see a true coup down the road. Countries tend towards revolution during times of reform, not oppression.
Yes - I don't think it will be a big overthrow right now, but it will happen later.
Even when the shah was trhown out, they had a sort of interim regime before Ayatollah Khomeini took over.
Happens all the time - think Kerenski - Lenin; Gorbachev - Yeltsin; and all the former Warsaw Pact states.
That is - if things go well.
Otherwise, we'll get Hungary 1956, Berlin 1953 ... and lots of blood and death.
The next few days will be crucial.
| 87 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:20:55pm |
re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I don't know how people can watch this. It is breaking my heart hearing about it.
Because- you're an American who, like me, takes our unalienable rights to heart and feels they belong to all men and women. We are moved when we see people being denied these precious rights, and yearn for them to be free as we are.
Pray that God is with them.
| 88 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:21:05pm |
re: #62 BringMeTuri
It's got a nice beat, I just don't feel like dancing right now.
| 89 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:21:10pm |
Iranian police thwarted by quality door.....
| 90 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:21:13pm |
re: #61 Racer X
Iraqi Ayatollah Sistani has sent his top envoy to Qom to negotiate a solution with the regime.
| 91 |
Irish Rose Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:21:34pm |
re: #38 Pvt Bin Jammin
OMG Extremely graphic video I just found via one of the tweets:
[Video]
Saw something yesterday about the Basij using razors. I wonder if that is what happened here.
GRAPHIC
Jaysus...
| 92 |
Desert Dog Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:21:44pm |
re: #67 Buck
And then what do we do? Occupy Iran? Hand it over to Mousavi? And what army will he use to hold it?
And if he does get power how do we know he wont run through the population killing anyone who opposed him?
Nope, it is best to stand by and let the regime change all on it's own. The people of Iran are doing what the Iraqi's were to cowardly to do. TRY to over throw the oppressive regime.
So, we should do nothing but sit and wait and see who wins then? If it's the mullah's we re-start the never-ending worthless negotiations. Or, if it's some other configuration, we do the same with them? We have been covertly helping dissident groups in Iran for years. This is what we have wanted to happen....A popular uprising. We should at the very least be sending our complete and full support to the protesters if nothing else. Obama is looking like Mr. Status Quo right now. So much for hope and change....
| 93 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:21:55pm |
re: #84 zombie
I'm being misunderstood here -- I am not advocating military action. I only mentioned our armies nearby as being the staging areas for getting weapons or undercover teams across the border.
OK and when the Mullahs push some of their terrorists and weapons back into Iraq and set it ablaze as Obama is withdrawing what then? Shit can get real complicated real fast.
| 94 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:15pm |
re: #82 Killgore Trout
It feels good to stand up for yourself. Good for her!
| 95 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:17pm |
re: #83 Kenneth
I noticed all of the gunshots. This is far worse than we know. IMO
| 96 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:19pm |
re: #87 Sharmuta
Because- you're an American who, like me, takes our unalienable rights to heart and feels they belong to all men and women. We are moved when we see people being denied these precious rights, and yearn for them to be free as we are.
Pray that God is with them.
I hope that our administration is with them.
| 97 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:22pm |
re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I don't know how people can watch this. It is breaking my heart hearing about it.
Yeah I haven't watched the videos. I'll take their word for it. Any legitimacy the Iranian government had (and that was tenuous at best) is literally and figuratively bleeding away now.
If there is any silver lining it is that even under a repressive government people will still risk their lives for liberty. These students and housewives are as brave and patriotic as any of our revolutionary period ancestors in the US.
| 98 |
Racer X Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:25pm |
Chavez backs Iran presidentJun 22 - Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez expressed support and solidarity for Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
You go boy!
| 99 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:39pm |
re: #84 zombie
I'm being misunderstood here -- I am not advocating military action. I only mentioned our armies nearby as being the staging areas for getting weapons or undercover teams across the border.
Actually, I think we understand what you are saying even if you don't. Sending "weapons or undercover teams across the border" is military action.
| 100 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:22:42pm |
re: #77 Racer X
It's called buddy stores, and US aircraft and Israeli aircraft are adept at using 'em.
| 102 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:23:17pm |
re: #96 Walter L. Newton
I hope that our administration is with them.
Truth is I have no idea where our administration is, and worse, I am not sure they do?
| 103 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:23:18pm |
| 104 |
Yashmak Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:23:56pm |
re: #41 yma o hyd
The Mullahs must know that they can only hang on to their power if the get rid of Khamenei and Ahmadinejad - but even if they do, that may be too late now.
That seems to closely gibe with what I've read as well, as it seems Ahmadinejad is positioning his RG cronies to usurp power from the Mullahs. It would be truly bizarre to see a reformist/Mullah alliance here, but that may be just what happens.
Of course, THAT could have bad fallout in the end too, if the Mullahs win. They'll be liable to push even harder for a theocratic regime, citing Ahmadinejad as an example of what happens if you go secular. . .even though that wouldn't be particularly accurate either.
It's all a bit much for me to wrap my head around.
| 105 |
anchors_aweigh Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:24:22pm |
re: #84 zombie
The first rule of holes applies here. Ahmadinejad and Khamenei are in a serious hole, let them keep digging. The US should not get involved militarily, we should only be providing moral shovels at this point.
| 106 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:24:33pm |
re: #100 lawhawk
It's called buddy stores, and US aircraft and Israeli aircraft are adept at using 'em.
But do the Iranian pilots have enough experience to avoid crashing into each other?
| 107 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:24:56pm |
re: #90 Kenneth
Iraqi Ayatollah Sistani has sent his top envoy to Qom to negotiate a solution with the regime.
That is one of the most important pieces of news coming out of Iran.
it shows me that the Ayatollahs are probably going to get rid of Khamenei - regadless of what is going on in the streets across the towns and cities of Iran.
They may already be too late, if the bazaaris are indeed going to shut down tomorrow.
| 108 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:25:02pm |
re: #103 Kosh's Shadow
What do they have that still flies?
Didn't Saddam fly 1/2 his Air Force of Russian Migs to Iran in the first gulf war?
| 109 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:25:19pm |
Get ready to seethe.......
3:13 PM ET --
Obama "moved" by crackdowns. White House Press Secretary just now: Obama was "moved" by the images of the violence over the weekend, particularly by the participation of women in the demonstrations. Full transcript shortly.
| 110 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:25:21pm |
re: #93 Nevergiveup
OK and when the Mullahs push some of their terrorists and weapons back into Iraq and set it ablaze as Obama is withdrawing what then? Shit can get real complicated real fast.
They're already doing that. Or trying to. And they've pretty much been shut down on that front already too.
| 111 |
FightingBack Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:25:29pm |
re: #97 DaddyG
Yeah I haven't watched the videos. I'll take their word for it. Any legitimacy the Iranian government had (and that was tenuous at best) is literally and figuratively bleeding away now.
If there is any silver lining it is that even under a repressive government people will still risk their lives for liberty. These students and housewives are as brave and patriotic as any of our revolutionary period ancestors in the US.
| 112 |
horse Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:25:32pm |
The only people those demonstrators for freedom are terrorizing are the mullahs.
| 113 |
Racer X Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:26:02pm |
re: #100 lawhawk
It's called buddy stores, and US aircraft and Israeli aircraft are adept at using 'em.
Well I'll be dipped. Did not know that. Thanks.
| 114 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:26:07pm |
re: #101 taxfreekiller
Be my guess if they allow any of their planes to get very far from home the pilots will be smart enough to have an emergency landing is some other county and then defect and sell info and the plane.
IMO
That assumes the government hasn't told them "come back or your family gets it".
| 115 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:26:21pm |
re: #77 Racer X
This I have to see.
Wish Granted!
/Manny the Mammoth
[Link: www.alexisparkinn.com...]
It's actually the F-18 tanker variant tanking an EA-6B, and yes, it's USN, I don't know what the Iraniacs have for tanker variants.
| 116 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:26:56pm |
re: #108 Nevergiveup
Didn't Saddam fly 1/2 his Air Force of Russian Migs to Iran in the first gulf war?
Yes. Those might be still flyable, since the Russians could have sold them parts.
| 117 |
legalpad Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:27:36pm |
It would be a nice beginning if our media and our "stars" would quit validating every single dictator that is anti-U.S.. Same for Europe. Then that could be followed by seriously unified economic boycotts of the countries in question. Of course, this would all have be accompanied by examination of the policies of Russia and China with regard to human rights/Democracy issues throughout the world and in their own countries. Considerations of these sort of things take second place to economic considerations, just as in the the genuinely imperialistic 19th century. The lefties here and in Europe would rather ignore such considerations and only talk about what is/was allegedly wrong with the U.S. and the "Jews". Until they do these things, or something like it, every word out of their mouths is a joke. Their posturing as people with principles, likewise.
| 118 |
Wendya Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:27:43pm |
re: #89 Killgore Trout
Iranian police thwarted by quality door.....
The guys up on the roof/ledge need some bricks.
| 119 |
Racer X Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:27:44pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
But was Obama moved enough to call some of our friends in Iraq and offer to help them get some payback over in Iran?
| 120 |
JustABill Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:27:45pm |
They are admitting their own weakness. The only people who would be terrified of non-violent protesters are those oppressing the people...
| 121 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:28:17pm |
re: #104 Yashmak
That seems to closely gibe with what I've read as well, as it seems Ahmadinejad is positioning his RG cronies to usurp power from the Mullahs. It would be truly bizarre to see a reformist/Mullah alliance here, but that may be just what happens.
Of course, THAT could have bad fallout in the end too, if the Mullahs win. They'll be liable to push even harder for a theocratic regime, citing Ahmadinejad as an example of what happens if you go secular. . .even though that wouldn't be particularly accurate either.
It's all a bit much for me to wrap my head around.
It is totally indecpherable at the moment - all we can do is speculate.
However, from the fact that the protests are still going on, that they are not backing down, I get the impression that this is sliding out of the hands of the mullahs. Their plans, for example ditching Khamenei, may be already too late.
| 122 |
Desert Dog Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:29:32pm |
re: #116 Kosh's Shadow
Yes. Those might be still flyable, since the Russians could have sold them parts.
Those jet are very good against unarmed civilians and static oil platforms. Against US or Israeli pilots, they are good for nothing. They better double check the ejection seats and parachutes if they ever get called into a tangle with an actual air force
| 123 |
legalpad Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:29:33pm |
re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I don't know how people can watch this. It is breaking my heart hearing about it.
ditto
| 124 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:30:18pm |
re: #99 Kenneth
Actually, I think we understand what you are saying even if you don't. Sending "weapons or undercover teams across the border" is covert military action.
As opposed to Overt.
| 125 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:30:48pm |
re: #102 Nevergiveup
Truth is I have no idea where our administration is, and worse, I am not sure they do?
You're making my point.
Here's the problem for me. I can sit here in front of my keyboard and post comments in support of the protesters and I can dig up videos on YouTube and I can find all sorts of ways to wave the flag of freedom (and there is nothing wrong with these things). But, I myself cannot make much of a impact on the situation.
But, my government and the president is suppose to represent me. My government CAN make an impact, a difference, take a stand, make a statement. But they have done nothing publicly, and recent history shows us that they have been lacking in the ability at covert actions.
With out the support of my country, a country who has based it's whole existence on certain freedoms, without that support being offered, if even just in word alone, then how can I feel like I can make any difference.
| 126 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:30:48pm |
re: #119 Racer X
But was Obama moved enough to call some of our friends in Iraq and offer to help them get some payback over in Iran?
RacerX, you really need to work on your seething.
/
| 127 |
Pianobuff Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:30:53pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
Get ready to seethe.......
3:13 PM ET --
I'll wait for the transcript before I wig out too much. However, if his words end up sounding like he's describing a performance of Mahler's 8th, I'll erupt.
| 128 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:30:59pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
Get ready to seethe.......
3:13 PM ET --
Moved... okay. That's one way to describe the situation. Let's see what the full transcript has to say and what the President will say next. Clearly, whatever he says has to take into account the fact that the Iranian regime itself admits the election was fraudulent (100%+ voter turnout makes Chicago politics look tame in comparison). It would also be interesting to see if he makes mention of Neda's murder (and how he characterizes same).
| 129 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:31:17pm |
re: #47 Kenneth
I think your idea is unrealistic. But you go ahead an volunteer for the mission first.
I'll make a deal with you. i will join the army and lead them personally into iran... if you choose to go to iran and live under the boot of the mullocracy. you say that those who want to topple the regime should suffer the consequences of what we advocate. I say you should, too.
| 131 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:32:17pm |
re: #99 Kenneth
Actually, I think we understand what you are saying even if you don't. Sending "weapons or undercover teams across the border" is military action.
Who says it has to be our troops. The donkey cart path runs both ways. There are plenty of Iraqis or even Iranians who would love to find material support just laying on the ground where it is convenient to pick up. The best part is it doesn't have to be US material given all of the crap they are smuggling in to Iraq.
| 132 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:32:18pm |
re: #122 Desert Dog
Those jet are very good against unarmed civilians and static oil platforms. Against US or Israeli pilots, they are good for nothing. They better double check the ejection seats and parachutes if they ever get called into a tangle with an actual air force
The Iranian F-14s ejection seats are disabled. The pilots know that.
| 133 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:32:31pm |
| 134 |
horse Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:32:39pm |
re: #89 Killgore Trout
Iranian police thwarted by quality door.....
MacGyver they are not... Though with a couple of rubber bands, razor blades, and silly putty the real MacGyver could taken out that entire gaggle gathered around that door.
| 135 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:32:41pm |
| 136 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:32:56pm |
I think this is just like that moment where you have to let go of the bicycle and see if the kid can ride it by themselves.
| 137 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:33:05pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
Get ready to seethe.......
3:13 PM ET --
Well, depending on the statement, seething may be in order. Once again, you set up a straw man, before the facts are even known, bad form KT, not fooling me.
| 138 |
avanti Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:33:18pm |
re: #119 Racer X
But was Obama moved enough to call some of our friends in Iraq and offer to help them get some payback over in Iran?
I can't even speculate as to what the heck you mean by that.
| 139 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:33:35pm |
re: #122 Desert Dog
Those jet are very good against unarmed civilians and static oil platforms. Against US or Israeli pilots, they are good for nothing. They better double check the ejection seats and parachutes if they ever get called into a tangle with an actual air force
Ejections seats and 'chutes are for cowards who don't believe Allah is with them....
| 140 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:33:35pm |
'The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States.'
| 141 |
Pianobuff Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:34:06pm |
re: #128 lawhawk
Moved... okay. That's one way to describe the situation. Let's see what the full transcript has to say and what the President will say next. Clearly, whatever he says has to take into account the fact that the Iranian regime itself admits the election was fraudulent (100%+ voter turnout makes Chicago politics look tame in comparison). It would also be interesting to see if he makes mention of Neda's murder (and how he characterizes same).
Haven't you ever heard of A'Kohr 'n?
| 142 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:34:43pm |
re: #124 NelsFree
As opposed to Overt.
Thank you. Covert, not overt.
Gandhi-style unarmed demonstrations only work against governments like Britain's that have a conscience. (And even in that case, the British did mow down hundreds of unarmed Indian protesters various times.) The mullahs have no conscience, and don't give a damn about public opinion. I think the protests will not succeed until either some of the Iranian military switches sides (unlikely) or the protesters physically seize the seats of power (also unlikely) or they somehow get firepower on their side.
| 143 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:35:25pm |
Obama's going to give a Rose Garden speech tomorrow to discuss North Korea and Iran.
| 144 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:35:30pm |
re: #131 DaddyG
Who says it has to be our troops. The donkey cart path runs both ways. There are plenty of Iraqis or even Iranians who would love to find material support just laying on the ground where it is convenient to pick up. The best part is it doesn't have to be US material given all of the crap they are smuggling in to Iraq.
I was making specific reference to zombie's suggestion that the US send in US Seals and or Rangers to work as snipers in Tehran. I happen to think that idea is of limited value, a huge risk to good troops, and very likely to backfire by giving huge propaganda gift to the regime.
| 145 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:35:45pm |
Iran to create special court to try election protesters
Reporting from Tehran -- Iran's judiciary will set up a special court to try protesters arrested in the surge of civil unrest since the disputed reelection of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a judiciary official said on state television, as the government continues its crackdown aimed at crushing its greatest domestic challenge in 30 years.
| 146 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:35:53pm |
re: #140 yma o hyd
'The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States.'
If only Orwell was alive today. That is the best demolishing of the contemporary Left anyone has ever written.
| 147 |
Buck Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:35:59pm |
re: #84 zombie
I'm being misunderstood here -- I am not advocating military action. I only mentioned our armies nearby as being the staging areas for getting weapons or undercover teams across the border.
Exactly what we accuse Iran of doing in Iraq. If the protester want guns and bombs they can find them... in Iran with "made in Iran" stickers on them.
Europe wants to be in a leadership role in the world? Fine let them lead on this one.
| 148 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:36:05pm |
re: #67 Buck
And then what do we do? Occupy Iran? Hand it over to Mousavi? And what army will he use to hold it?
And if he does get power how do we know he wont run through the population killing anyone who opposed him?
Nope, it is best to stand by and let the regime change all on it's own. The people of Iran are doing what the Iraqi's were to cowardly to do. TRY to over throw the oppressive regime.
100% on the money. Castro was the "favorite" too once.
Although I wouldn't paint the Iraqis as cowards. I think they tried. And at points along the way, we tried to arm them. We tried spies from within and without and nothing worked. 15 odd years of it.
I don't know what's going to happen in Iran. I am unfortunately not hopeful.
| 149 |
yma o hyd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:36:30pm |
Gotta go, Lizards!
Seeya tomorrow, all being well.
May God protect the brave Iranian dissidents who are shedding their blood and giving their lives for their freedom!
| 150 |
Desert Dog Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:37:09pm |
re: #139 jcm
Ejections seats and 'chutes are for cowards who don't believe Allah is with them....
They will get to meet him if they decide to fly up to meet a US jet
| 151 |
Racer X Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:37:17pm |
| 152 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:37:22pm |
re: #146 zombie
If only Orwell was alive today. That is the best demolishing of the contemporary Left anyone has ever written.
Zombie, take it from me, Orwell is "alive" today, if you know what I mean.
| 153 |
zombie Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:37:32pm |
re: #147 Buck
Exactly what we accuse Iran of doing in Iraq.
Precisely. Tit for tat. It's payback time.
| 154 |
karmic_inquisitor Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:37:38pm |
Gee - amazing what we were hearing a year ago ...
I remember hearing from some well spoken young guy about the absolute moral shame and illegitimacy of any government that engages in torture and tries to use national emergencies as a basis for silencing dissent.
I remember being told how sad it was that a once great power had found itself mired in a futile effort to project its power when it had undermined that power with its own amoral actions.
That voice is now comparably silent.
That voice was of Sen. Barack Obama attacking the United States under George Bush.
He is unwilling to voice the same criticism against the demonstrably thugish Mullahtocracy that runs Iran. For them, only gentle reprimands are in order while Obama carefully points out that they are sovereigns and that talking to them is in our national interests.
Funny how treating George Bush with the same respect was not in the national interest.
| 155 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:38:02pm |
re: #140 yma o hyd
'The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States.'
The majority of pacifists are weak willed scum who when push comes to shove will turn more vicious than a rabid bit bull.
-Kragar
| 156 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:38:50pm |
OT:
That North Korean ship we've been tailing? Its destination is Myanmar, home to one of the most repressive regimes on the planet (birds of a feather).
| 157 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:39:03pm |
re: #143 lawhawk
Anybody think that President 0bama is surprised by the fact that people want him to take definitive action?
I think the whole administration is shocked.
| 158 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:39:11pm |
re: #155 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The majority of pacifists are weak willed scum who when push comes to shove will turn more vicious than a rabid bit bull.
-Kragar
Idealism is what happen between wars. Realism is what happens during war. (quote, me)
| 160 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:01pm |
re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Anybody think that President 0bama is surprised by the fact that people want him to take definitive action?
I think the whole administration is shocked.
I think the whole administration is clueless.
| 161 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:02pm |
re: #156 lawhawk
OT:
That North Korean ship we've been tailing? Its destination is Myanmar, home to one of the most repressive regimes on the planet (birds of a feather).
True but SLORC sounds like something out of James Bond. Makes me smirk every time.
| 162 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:05pm |
Note: the Iranian "Students" who captured the US Embassy on 4 NOV 79 had handguns. How did they get them then?
| 163 |
jpkoch Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:22pm |
The Iranian army, according to Ledeen, isn't all that loyal to the Mullahs, and certainly cannot be counted on to defend the Mullahs' regime. The Revolutionary Guard is better, but some have actually refused to obey orders. I wonder how many foreign born Hezbollah or Hamas thugs are doing the Mullah's bidding?
| 164 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:32pm |
re: #156 lawhawk
OT:
That North Korean ship we've been tailing? Its destination is Myanmar, home to one of the most repressive regimes on the planet (birds of a feather).
Seize the ship and donate its contents to the Iranian freedom fighters!
| 165 |
J.S. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:38pm |
hmmm....Ali Velshi is taking over from Rick Sanchez all this week on CNN. Ali's doing very well, imo -- he's being very reasonable, he speaks calmly and and he's not even hyperventilating, or making some stupid, hyper-hysterical statement (unlike Sanchez).
| 166 |
legalpad Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:40:42pm |
re: #40 zombie
Yes, but we have 10 million sympathizers to host/help/guide us once we're on the ground in Iran, and we have the best army in the world just across the border in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's do-able.
Yeah but this requires the national will to not do it half-assed. And the #1 risk would be being cast as "aggressors" and "occupiers". College professors in the U.S. are currently teaching our 18 year-olds that the Iraqi war was illegal and that we are oppressors and occupiers. They and the entire left here and in Europe would betray us in a nanosecond if we went into Iran. Our "administration" would crumble and the media would pile on. They are the "Corporal Upham's" in this war. They would cower on the stairs while our people are killed. As long as we have such treachery in our own country, we can't do anything like this.
| 167 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:41:15pm |
re: #142 zombie
There is a large Iranian opposition military force in a camp in Iraq. The MEK is considered a terrorist organization around the world and has very little support inside Iran. For the time being the US military is keeping these people "under protection" at Camp Ashraf, Iraq. They want to go back to Iran to fight the regime. They do have their supporters among Western pundits and politicos.
| 168 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:41:16pm |
re: #162 NelsFree
Note: the Iranian "Students" who captured the US Embassy on 4 NOV 79 had handguns. How did they get them then?
In that case from the Islamic revolutionary folks who had taken over the country.
| 169 |
avanti Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:41:57pm |
| 170 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:42:29pm |
re: #169 avanti
Got it, a US sponsored invasion from Afghanistan or Iraq would be welcomed with flowers and smooches by the Iranians. Why didn't Obama think of that one ?
Because he doesn't have any balls. Next question?
| 171 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:42:35pm |
re: #156 lawhawk
I linked to a report that the US has arranged for Singapore to intercept the ship. That way NoKo can't accuse the US of an "act of war".
| 172 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:42:58pm |
re: #163 jpkoch
The Iranian army, according to Ledeen, isn't all that loyal to the Mullahs, and certainly cannot be counted on to defend the Mullahs' regime. The Revolutionary Guard is better, but some have actually refused to obey orders. I wonder how many foreign born Hezbollah or Hamas thugs are doing the Mullah's bidding?
If twitter reports are correct, there are many.
| 173 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:43:08pm |
re: #160 Walter L. Newton
I think the whole administration is clueless.
Shocked
Clueless
Paralyzed
Inexperienced
Unprepared
Naive
Unsubstantial
...I've got a thesaurus and I'm not afraid to use it.
| 174 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:43:21pm |
re: #171 Kenneth
I linked to a report that the US has arranged for Singapore to intercept the ship. That way NoKo can't accuse the US of an "act of war".
They will any ways.
MEDDLING!
| 175 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:43:23pm |
re: #156 lawhawk
OT:
That North Korean ship we've been tailing? Its destination is Myanmar, home to one of the most repressive regimes on the planet (birds of a feather).
Makes it more likely the ship is carrying small arms; missiles and nukes aren't so useful against your own citizens.
Or, they could offload some missiles and/or nukes, which would then get loaded on another ship, say an Iranian one, which happens to stop there and is heading in the right direction.
| 176 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:43:40pm |
Can't stop the song "Easy to be Hard" (3 Dog Night) out of my stupid skull.
| 177 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:43:40pm |
re: #173 DaddyG
Shocked
Clueless
Paralyzed
Inexperienced
Unprepared
Naive
Unsubstantial...I've got a thesaurus and I'm not afraid to use it.
What does "Cpiunu " spell?
| 178 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:43:51pm |
re: #156 lawhawk
OT:
That North Korean ship we've been tailing? Its destination is Myanmar, home to one of the most repressive regimes on the planet (birds of a feather).
How many died in the cyclone last year in Bruma because the Thugs refused aid?
150,000?
| 179 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:44:42pm |
the great majority of pacifists are freeloaders on freedom and giant hypocrites to boot. they sleep under the blanket of freedom purchased with the blood of patriots and tyrants, and pretend they are somehow above icky behavior that keeps them safe and free.
You are free to be a pacifist, but 90% of the time, I will have no respect for you.
Now mind you some pacifists defying gunfire and the like are actually brave and i respect it even as i choose a different path. But that's not most of them.
| 180 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:44:44pm |
re: #177 Walter L. Newton
What does "Cpiunu " spell?
Great Cpiunu! A key part of Lovecraft's mythos.
/
| 181 |
jantjepietje Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:44:46pm |
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
Iran's Web Spying Aided By Western Technology
European Gear Used in Vast Effort to Monitor Communications
The Iranian regime has developed, with the assistance of European telecommunications companies, one of the world's most sophisticated mechanisms for controlling and censoring the Internet, allowing it to examine the content of individual online communications on a massive scale.Interviews with technology experts in Iran and outside the country say Iranian efforts at monitoring Internet information go well beyond blocking access to Web sites or severing Internet connections.
Instead, in confronting the political turmoil that has consumed the country this past week, the Iranian government appears to be engaging in a practice often called deep packet inspection, which enables authorities to not only block communication but to monitor it to gather information about individuals, as well as alter it for disinformation purposes, according to these experts.
And here comes the real scary part
Countries with repressive governments aren't the only ones interested in such technology. Britain has a list of blocked sites, and the German government is considering similar measures. In the U.S., the National Security Agency has such capability, which was employed as part of the Bush administration's "Terrorist Surveillance Program." A White House official wouldn't comment on if or how this is being used under the Obama administration.The Australian government is experimenting with Web-site filtering to protect its youth from online pornography, an undertaking that has triggered criticism that it amounts to government-backed censorship.
| 182 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:44:57pm |
re: #169 avanti
An Iranian friend of mine told me that when he was in Tehran in May 2003, he saw graffiti that said, "President Bush: next please!"
Not everybody would be against direct military help from the US, but most Iranians would be.
| 183 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:45:04pm |
re: #171 Kenneth
I linked to a report that the US has arranged for Singapore to intercept the ship. That way NoKo can't accuse the US of an "act of war".
They can't accuse of an "act of war" they withdrew from the cease fire.
| 184 |
Golem Akbar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:45:57pm |
So, it's considered an insult to be called an American, A Brit, or a Jew? I wish I were a British American Jew. I could be proud on all three counts.
| 185 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:46:01pm |
re: #180 Occasional Reader
Great Cpiunu! A key part of Lovecraft's mythos.
/
i thought Cpiunu was Keanu Reeves' brother.
| 186 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:46:30pm |
re: #166 legalpad I wouldn't have thought we'd be so stupid in large groups after 9/11. It really does make me admire the WWII generation and their willingness to sacrifice to bring freedom to the world.
Sadly, the stealth campaign the LLL, pacifists and academics have used to gut patriotism, reason and love of liberty from our national conscience seems to have become malignant.
| 187 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:46:31pm |
re: #180 Occasional Reader
Great Cpiunu! A key part of Lovecraft's mythos.
/
Wasn't he known as one of the Great So Well Spoken Ones?
| 188 |
The Shadow Do Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:46:36pm |
Looks like the missing pieces to this revolution are communications and leadership. In the good old days both would be supplied by the CIA. You can call it community organizing.
| 189 |
avanti Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:47:31pm |
re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Anybody think that President 0bama is surprised by the fact that people want him to take definitive action?
I think the whole administration is shocked.
Define "people" ? Blogger's and some on the right yes, our intelligence community, his advisers and the rest, not so much.
Don't assume that when you spend a lot of time listening to folks that share your political opinion, that it is the prevailing one. Be you on the right or left, study both sides of the issue, or you may be mislead.
| 190 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:47:46pm |
re: #171 Kenneth
The report I saw suggests that the ship contains small arms, which makes sense that it's headed to Myanmar since that's about all that brutal regime can afford.
| 191 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:48:07pm |
Any realistic attempt to send material support Iran revolutinaries would most likely go thru thr Kurdish Peshmerga. The danger there is using or supporting them would likely piss off Turkey.
| 192 |
Pianobuff Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:48:29pm |
re: #159 taxfreekiller
History will now pass Obama by, History does as it will, History will never hear the high toned voice of indecision, its all to faint.
I chuckled and thought of this.........
"I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week, sometimes, to make it up. "
Mark Twain
| 193 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:48:33pm |
re: #173 DaddyG
You forgot unethical, tax cheats, criminal, and morally bankrupt.
| 195 |
itellu3times Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:49:01pm |
re: #143 lawhawk
Obama's going to give a Rose Garden speech tomorrow to discuss North Korea and Iran.
He never promised us a rose garden.
| 196 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:49:28pm |
re: #190 lawhawk
The report I saw suggests that the ship contains small arms, which makes sense that it's headed to Myanmar since that's about all that brutal regime can afford.
Hijack it to Iran......
c/o of man in the street.
| 197 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:49:34pm |
| 198 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:49:40pm |
re: #167 Kenneth
After reading the Wiki on MEK (while scratching my dog's back), sounds like Castro in a Turban. Leave 'em be, let Democracy flourish!
| 199 |
itellu3times Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:50:03pm |
re: #194 Iron Fist
We should just sink their damned ship and be done with it. We all the time tiptoe around L'il Kim because he acts like he's nuts and he does have something of a conventional army. We can melt his third world hell hole if we so choose. Why does L'il Kim get the pass. He threatens us with war all the time. Turn about is fair play. Sink his boats. All of them.
If there is any shooting, I think that would be an excellent first step.
| 201 |
Idle Drifter Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:50:34pm |
I do have my concerns and plenty of questions should the Mullahs be toppled along with the QUDs, Basiji, and the Republican Guard. What will replace them? Should open civil war break out will Hamas and Hezbollah forces relocate to Iran along with other hardliner individuals and groups may go as well? Who do we support? Will that support be only moral or will it include material? Do we send Special Forces to train the opposition fighters? Do we send an expeditionary force (be it only air strikes or an air ground unit) to take and destroy Iran's Nuclear Weapons program to prevent it from falling into hands of more unstable Islamic hardliners? Do our leaders in Washington have the stomach for such an operation to secure the nuclear data and material? (My guess is no.) Should the Mullahs be toppled by people the United States can pursue peaceful interests with will Washington pursue it? How weakened will Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas become after the fall of their main benefactor it at all?
I can only pray for the best possible outcome and I hope our leaders have several contingency plans drawn up for the future of Iran.
| 202 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:50:56pm |
re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not a bad point, there.
For you I make the sign of the cross, for you, I pray, for you... :)
| 203 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:51:02pm |
the world burns
President Obama is working on his 4th of July segment for Parade Magazine
| 204 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:51:39pm |
| 205 |
beerdrinking_victorymonkey Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:51:46pm |
re: #203 Eowyn2
the world burns
President Obama is working on his 4th of July segment for Parade Magazine
was Tiger Beat booked already?
| 206 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:51:54pm |
re: #194 Iron Fist
We should just sink their damned ship and be done with it. We all the time tiptoe around L'il Kim because he acts like he's nuts and he does have something of a conventional army. We can melt his third world hell hole if we so choose. Why does L'il Kim get the pass. He threatens us with war all the time. Turn about is fair play. Sink his boats. All of them.
Lil' Kim holds us and S. Korean hostage because he is or acts nuts. If he throws a tantrum a lot of people die.
And we (the entire world) have tolerated this shit for over 50 years.
| 207 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:52:07pm |
re: #169 avanti
Got it, a US sponsored invasion from Afghanistan or Iraq would be welcomed with flowers and smooches by the Iranians. Why didn't Obama think of that one ?
WAAAAAAAAAAY too many Iranians still remember the losses incurred from the Iran-Iraq War.
/"Think smooches not, it will be." -Yoda
| 208 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:52:10pm |
So.... let me get this straight. Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all. Now that's changed? Um... why?
I'm the last person who thinks we should bomb Iran then, now or ever, but I'm finding a lot of people all of a sudden have huge hearts now, when prior to these elections, the country could have fallen off the face of the earth and no one would have blinked. Yeesh.
| 209 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:52:11pm |
re: #177 Walter L. Newton
What does "Cpiunu " spell?
If I read that correctly...where did you hide the camera?! =8-o
| 210 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:52:36pm |
re: #198 NelsFree
After reading the Wiki on MEK (while scratching my dog's back), sounds like Castro in a Turban. Leave 'em be, let Democracy flourish!
More like Castro meets Jim Jones in a turban.
Toxic. Do not touch.
| 211 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:52:52pm |
re: #184 Golem Akbar
So, it's considered an insult to be called an American, A Brit, or a Jew? I wish I were a British American Jew. I could be proud on all three counts.
even without hyphens:)
| 212 |
avanti Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:53:48pm |
re: #170 Walter L. Newton
Because he doesn't have any balls. Next question?
Walter, I know you like to fight, but I thought you were reasonable on occasion. Let me get this one book marked. You think Obama has no balls because he would not encourage a invasion of Iran by Afghanistan and Iraq. You would admire that course of action and feel it would be successful in helping the people of Iran ?
| 213 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:53:50pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
Separate the Mad Mullahs from the people.
That distinction is always been made here, expect by a few who are banned.
| 214 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:54:04pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
A few people said such things here, but it was hardly the standard view.
| 215 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:54:14pm |
re: #184 Golem Akbar
So, it's considered an insult to be called an American, A Brit, or a Jew? I wish I were a British American Jew. I could be proud on all three counts.
Well it is possible.
| 216 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:54:23pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
So.... let me get this straight. Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all.
Linky?
| 217 |
J.S. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:54:30pm |
re: #182 Kenneth
Hey, c'mon, Kenneth, what about Canada being next, eh? How many times, how many times have I put in this request, eh? Only to fall on deaf ears...btw, did you hear the latest in Canadian "justice"? Remember that case of those 2 sisters who murdered their mother? Remember that one? They were 15 and 16 at the time of the crime. The older one got her mother drunk and gave her Tylenol pills, then put her in a bathtub and held her mother's head under the water for 4 minutes, until she died. Then the 2 sisters covered up the crime (went out to eat at a restaurant to give them an alibi, followed by the older sister returning home and calling 911 -- "omg! I've found my mother in the bathtub!" the reporters said it was an Academy performance...) Then, they covered up the crime for over a year -- the coroner believed their story and ruled the mother's death was accidental. But they went on to laugh and brag about it -- until a cousin turned them in...and the police then did an investigation. After their trial, the judge gave 'em 10 years for First Degree, Premeditated Murder...And today? Why, the older one's out -- released after serving only 3 years of her ten year sentence -- and she's going on to university...Why don't they give her a medal to boot, eh? (Oh, and of course, her name can't be made public -- might tarnish her "reputation.")
| 218 |
legalpad Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:04pm |
re: #186 DaddyG
I wouldn't have thought we'd be so stupid in large groups after 9/11. It really does make me admire the WWII generation and their willingness to sacrifice to bring freedom to the world.
Sadly, the stealth campaign the LLL, pacifists and academics have used to gut patriotism, reason and love of liberty from our national conscience seems to have become malignant.
One "advantage" the WWII generation had: They could easily visualize being defeated militarily by the Japanese and the Germans. Our military was only the 15th most powerful in the world. The Germans were absolutely in the lead technologically. Now, all issues tie into the world economy and the imaginary world know as the "politically correct", determined by persons unknown. More than anything else, we need to fight the propaganda war. But we are too busy thinking about gay marriage and abortion. In the meantime the world slides into the control of dictators and druglords.
| 219 |
Son of the Black Dog Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:25pm |
re: #195 itellu3times
He never promised us a rose garden.
Actually he did. Along with rainbows and unicorns.
"... the seas would cease to rise ... etc."
| 220 |
The Shadow Do Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:31pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
So.... let me get this straight. Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all.
What a load of hooey
| 221 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:34pm |
Boy this Iranian thing is making for strange bed fellows?
| 222 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:47pm |
| 223 |
itellu3times Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:53pm |
re: #197 Walter L. Newton
He never promised us a rose gardenButI did! Email for copy.
I beg your pardon,
Walter L. Newton has the rose garden.
Along with the Norkos,
There's gotta be a little Iran sometimes,
| 224 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:55:57pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
So.... let me get this straight. Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all. Now that's changed? Um... why?
I'm the last person who thinks we should bomb Iran then, now or ever, but I'm finding a lot of people all of a sudden have huge hearts now, when prior to these elections, the country could have fallen off the face of the earth and no one would have blinked. Yeesh.
HUH?
A lot of people on this board have said that dinnerjacket will make Iran into plate glass. I will need to see a specific email colling for the bombing of Iran and her innocent civilians (dont even bother with an 'Israel should take out the nuke plants NOW - that isn't what your post implied)
| 225 |
Wendya Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:56:06pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
So.... let me get this straight. Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all. Now that's changed? Um... why?
I'm the last person who thinks we should bomb Iran then, now or ever, but I'm finding a lot of people all of a sudden have huge hearts now, when prior to these elections, the country could have fallen off the face of the earth and no one would have blinked. Yeesh.
Don't mistake contempt for their government with contempt for their people.
| 226 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:56:22pm |
re: #219 Son of the Black Dog
Actually he did. Along with rainbows and unicorns.
"... the seas would cease to rise ... etc."
Well just watch ABC on Wednesday.
| 227 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:56:52pm |
re: #217 J.S.
Hey, c'mon, Kenneth, what about Canada being next, eh? How many times, how many times have I put in this request, eh? Only to fall on deaf ears...btw, did you hear the latest in Canadian "justice"? Remember that case of those 2 sisters who murdered their mother? Remember that one? They were 15 and 16 at the time of the crime. The older one got her mother drunk and gave her Tylenol pills, then put her in a bathtub and held her mother's head under the water for 4 minutes, until she died. Then the 2 sisters covered up the crime (went out to eat at a restaurant to give them an alibi, followed by the older sister returning home and calling 911 -- "omg! I've found my mother in the bathtub!" the reporters said it was an Academy performance...) Then, they covered up the crime for over a year -- the coroner believed their story and ruled the mother's death was accidental. But they went on to laugh and brag about it -- until a cousin turned them in...and the police then did an investigation. After their trial, the judge gave 'em 10 years for First Degree, Premeditated Murder...And today? Why, the older one's out -- released after serving only 3 years of her ten year sentence -- and she's going on to university...Why don't they give her a medal to boot, eh? (Oh, and of course, her name can't be made public -- might tarnish her "reputation.")
What? No mercy for orphans?
/ Menendez flash back.
| 228 |
avanti Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:57:28pm |
re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not a bad point, there.
It's one of the reasons I hang out here. I live in a blue state and might suffer from a Kool Aid overdose if I did not fight out BHO is not universal loved.
I'll admit how far we are apart on most issues, but it's better to see both sides anyway.
| 229 |
Dianna Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:57:40pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
Since I never had that opinion, I resent that.
| 230 |
Pianobuff Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:57:47pm |
re: #224 Eowyn2
HUH?
A lot of people on this board have said that dinnerjacket will make Iran into plate glass. I will need to see a specific email colling for the bombing of Iran and her innocent civilians (dont even bother with an 'Israel should take out the nuke plants NOW - that isn't what your post implied)
I had the same reaction but you beat me to it. Well said.
| 231 |
Syrah Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:57:50pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
Simply, if there is a better way, why not choose that?
It is one thing the persuade your enemy's that you are resolute in your opposition to them, even if it means taking terrible actions against them.
It is another thing altogether to want to cut off your nose to spite your face.
Give the people here some credit for being willing to choose a better route when it is available.
| 232 |
n2stox Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:57:56pm |
the Iranian regime now refers to the protesters as “terrorists.”
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, this is pot.
| 234 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:58:01pm |
re: #214 Kenneth
A few people said such things here, but it was hardly the standard view.
I think it was absolutely the standard view and had been for many years. Maybe folks were just talking tough, I don't know, but I guess it takes a few good videos of live deaths to inject a little compassion.
| 235 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:58:50pm |
Where's the popcorn!? I've got the comfy cushions!
| 236 |
Dianna Mon, Jun 22, 2009 12:59:47pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
Once again, I'm having a hard time being civil to you, so let me explain why.
Your emotions and emotional condition do not make you a special snowflake and superior to every other person on this board.
Stop assuming that you're super-sensitive and oh-so-special because of it. It's really irritating.
| 237 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:00:59pm |
re: #231 Syrah
Simply, if there is a better way, why not choose that?
It is one thing the persuade your enemy's that you are resolute in your opposition to them, even if it means taking terrible actions against them.
It is another thing altogether to want to cut off your nose to spite your face.
Give the people here some credit for being willing to choose a better route when it is available.
I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure there are those here who called for nuking the whole region who still think so.
There was hardly any, if any at all, compassion towards Iran and it's people on this board. I'm fine if people had a change of heart, but it's just weird.
| 238 |
Buck Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:01:32pm |
re: #217 J.S.
Hey, c'mon, Kenneth, what about Canada being next, eh?
It was tried by the US previously.... it didn't go well for you guys.
I noticed you fixed / rebuilt the Whitehouse.... looks nice. We are really sorry about burning it down.
| 239 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:01:48pm |
re: #234 American Sabra
I think it was absolutely the standard view and had been for many years.
Oh, I get it. There's so much confirmation for the thing you just made up that it would be too difficult to link them all. "Standard view", what hooey.
| 241 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:02:22pm |
re: #234 American Sabra
I think it was absolutely the standard view and had been for many years. Maybe folks were just talking tough, I don't know, but I guess it takes a few good videos of live deaths to inject a little compassion.
It was not.
I've been here for a few years.
A comment advocating turning Iran into glass was and is grounds for banning.
Do I want the Mad Mullahs to met Allah?
Absolutely.
Do I want their nuclear ambitions ended by any means?
Absolutely.
Do I want Iranians, other the the Mad Mullahs and sycophants, harmed?
Absolutely not.
| 242 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:02:27pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
For me? It's just that people screaming in Middle East shouting for Freedom are entirely different people than people in the Middle East screaming Death To America.
Kind of support the former. Not the later.
| 243 |
ryannon Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:02:44pm |
re: #237 American Sabra
I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure there are those here who called for nuking the whole region who still think so.
There was hardly any, if any at all, compassion towards Iran and it's people on this board. I'm fine if people had a change of heart, but it's just weird.
All those for nuking the whole region, raise your hand(s)....
| 244 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:02:50pm |
re: #236 Dianna
Once again, I'm having a hard time being civil to you, so let me explain why.
Your emotions and emotional condition do not make you a special snowflake and superior to every other person on this board.
Stop assuming that you're super-sensitive and oh-so-special because of it. It's really irritating.
I'm super sensitive? You think everything I say is directed to you and you call me super sensitive?
| 245 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:03:28pm |
re: #237 American Sabra
Calls for nuking typically result in banning by Charles.
| 246 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:04:19pm |
Breaking: Ahmadinejad video message:
| 247 |
legalpad Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:04:19pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
most people on this board
Maybe you mean "some people". We'll need some stats for that "most". You think maybe the restrained military policies of George W. Bush worked? Got the Iranians thinking about Democracy?
| 248 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:04:21pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
So.... let me get this straight. Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all. Now that's changed? Um... why?
I'm the last person who thinks we should bomb Iran then, now or ever, but I'm finding a lot of people all of a sudden have huge hearts now, when prior to these elections, the country could have fallen off the face of the earth and no one would have blinked. Yeesh.
Something about a patriot loves a kindred spirit and when a people awake to tear off the shackles of despotism Americans cheer them on.
In your zeal to lecture us on our hypocrisy you seem to be awfully close to being an apologist for repression.
Kettle pot, pot kettle.
| 249 |
The Shadow Do Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:04:41pm |
re: #234 American Sabra
I think it was absolutely the standard view and had been for many years. Maybe folks were just talking tough, I don't know, but I guess it takes a few good videos of live deaths to inject a little compassion.
•Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
Did you take a wrong turn somewhere on your way to this blog? Are you lost? Has anyone told you to get lost?
| 250 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:05:18pm |
re: #242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
For me? It's just that people screaming in Middle East shouting for Freedom are entirely different people than people in the Middle East screaming Death To America.
Kind of support the former. Not the later.
You have a very good point there. Thanks.
| 251 |
JustABill Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:05:41pm |
re: #245 Kenneth
Calls for nuking typically result in banning by Charles.
except for popcorn. We can call for nuking popcorn to enjoy as we watch the posts fly back and forth... ( I hope, otherwise this may be my last post...)
| 252 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:06:21pm |
re: #234 American Sabra
People who post comments like "nuke them all" are not welcome here, and that has been the standard view for many years. Perhaps you've been reading a different blog?
| 253 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:06:28pm |
re: #237 American Sabra
I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure there are those here who called for nuking the whole region who still think so.
There was hardly any, if any at all, compassion towards Iran and it's people on this board. I'm fine if people had a change of heart, but it's just weird.
Citation please. And don't bother to link the the hyperbole and political rhetoric... please find me a real call to nuke Iran in the archives of LGF. Then we will discuss.
Until then I assume your broad brush has no paint.
| 254 |
soxfan4life Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:06:32pm |
re: #251 JustABill
except for popcorn. We can call for nuking popcorn to enjoy as we watch the posts fly back and forth... ( I hope, otherwise this may be my last post...)
What about leftovers?
| 255 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:06:34pm |
re: #251 JustABill
except for popcorn. We can call for nuking popcorn to enjoy as we watch the posts fly back and forth... ( I hope, otherwise this may be my last post...)
Popcorn gets microwaved. Yer fucked./
| 256 |
Dianna Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:06:39pm |
re: #244 American Sabra
I'm super sensitive? You think everything I say is directed to you and you call me super sensitive?
No. I don't think you are directing remarks to me. I think you believe that you are a very special, sensitive little snowflake, and the rest of us are superficial brutes.
Your remarks make that very clear.
I have no idea where you get the notion that "nuke 'em all!" is a general position on this blog. Perhaps you read it once before it got deleted and it upset you? Then you internalized it as a majority position, rather than noting that other people disliked it, too?
| 257 |
jvic Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:07:08pm |
re: #148 American Sabra
Although I wouldn't paint the Iraqis as cowards. I think they tried. And at points along the way, we tried to arm them. We tried spies from within and without and nothing worked. 15 odd years of it.
At the end of Gulf War I, Bush 41 all but openly called for an uprising against Saddam--and stood by while Saddam slaughtered the swamp Arabs and other rebels.
I don't know what's going to happen in Iran. I am unfortunately not hopeful.
Sadly, hoping to be wrong, I agree.
I doubt that a modern state can be overthrown by a popular uprising provided the regime remains unified and ruthless. Think Tiananmen 1989. (Iran is not a modern state, but I bet the repressive apparatus is pretty up to date.)
Repressive regimes have been bought off or have bought themselves off (think of the Commie bosses who awarded themselves cushy slices of the industrial base before acceding to Velvet Revolutions), but the buyout offer has to be credible. Unfortunately, sanctimonious fools in official positions went after Pinochet and Milosevic after they gave up power. That is a red flag to future despots who might prefer to abdicate. IMO those prosecutors and judges deserve life in filthy rat-infested dungeons, and a nasty part of Hell thereafter.
| 258 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:07:12pm |
re: #251 JustABill
except for popcorn. We can call for nuking popcorn to enjoy as we watch the posts fly back and forth... ( I hope, otherwise this may be my last post...)
DEATH TO REDENBACHER!
/
| 259 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:07:20pm |
re: #251 JustABill
except for popcorn. We can call for nuking popcorn to enjoy as we watch the posts fly back and forth... ( I hope, otherwise this may be my last post...)
How 'bout squirrels? I like squirrels in my popcorn popper!
/Huck
| 260 |
lawhawk Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:07:28pm |
re: #243 ryannon
Those who were calling for the region to be nuked have found themselves without accounts - banned. Charles doesn't stand for that kind of talk, and it frankly speaks to genocide.
The region is full of evil regimes that repress their people, engage in wholesale violations of human rights, and will murder their own citizens - all while blaming Israel for their own failures.Iran is once again doing just that. It's the regimes that need to go, the people could use a couple generations of deprogramming of hatred towards the West and Israel. Even then, I think most people here wouldn't mind a simple detente where there wasn't an incessant stream of terrorists heading to Israel and the West to commit mayhem because the regimes are busy filling the heads of the jihadis with ideas of hero worship, martyrdom, and 72 virgins in exchange for getting out of their hair for a bit...
| 261 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:07:29pm |
re: #248 DaddyG
Something about a patriot loves a kindred spirit and when a people awake to tear off the shackles of despotism Americans cheer them on.
In your zeal to lecture us on our hypocrisy you seem to be awfully close to being an apologist for repression.
Kettle pot, pot kettle.
For me, you either have the moral code or you don't have the moral code. It's either right to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran" 2, 3, 5 years ago or it wasn't. I never thought it was and those who agreed were in the minority.
| 262 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:07:49pm |
| 263 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:08:04pm |
Pat Buchanan and Peter Brimelow (VDARE founder) at 2009 White Nationalist "Conferenece" (check out the banner)
| 264 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:08:07pm |
re: #252 Sharmuta
People who post comments like "nuke them all" are not welcome here, and that has been the standard view for many years. Perhaps you've been reading a different blog?
LOL well unless I've entered the Twilight Zone, apparently I have!
| 266 |
LGoPs Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:08:23pm |
re: #247 legalpad
Maybe you mean "some people". We'll need some stats for that "most". You think maybe the restrained military policies of George W. Bush worked? Got the Iranians thinking about Democracy?
It's too early to tell but if this Iranian uprising ends up deposing the mullahs and the theocracy it would be supremely ironic to think that the catalyst may have been a result of what President Bush started in Iraq.
The l;eft is too full of hatred to give him credit so it all depends on who writes the history books 100 years from now.
| 268 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:09:29pm |
re: #256 Dianna
I think you believe that you are a very special, sensitive little snowflake, and the rest of us are superficial brutes.
I love it! Can I steal that line the next time condescension is building up on my screen?
| 270 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:10:42pm |
re: #261 American Sabra
For me, you either have the moral code or you don't have the moral code. It's either right to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran" 2, 3, 5 years ago or it wasn't. I never thought it was and those who agreed were in the minority.
Were you here under another nic 2, 3, 5 years ago?
| 271 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:10:49pm |
re: #267 lawhawk
Andrew Sullivan points out that is was an English only conference. You'd think they'd spell the banner properly.
| 272 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:10:53pm |
re: #208 American Sabra
Not too long ago, most people on this board wanted to make a glass plate out of Iran, citizens and all.
Other than being a bald-faced lie, that's an incredibly good point.
/
| 273 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:11:14pm |
re: #237 American Sabra
I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure there are those here who called for nuking the whole region who still think so.
There was hardly any, if any at all, compassion towards Iran and it's people on this board. I'm fine if people had a change of heart, but it's just weird.
You sit there and say that you know MOST of us (assuming 50.1% or better) were declaring that we should wipe Iran off the map? Perhaps you have us confused with the Iranian Junta which keeps calling for Israel to be wiped off the map.
| 274 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:11:17pm |
re: #238 Buck
It was tried by the US previously.... it didn't go well for you guys.
I noticed you fixed / rebuilt the Whitehouse.... looks nice. We are really sorry about burning it down.
How much would you charge to invade, occupy, and KEEP Washington, D.C.?
/
| 275 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:11:25pm |
| 276 |
Jack Burton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:11:44pm |
Note that the Iranian regime now refers to the protesters as “terrorists.”
Iranian Regime Comment --
Possible Responses:
I know you are, but what am I?
Pot... Kettle.... Black...
Takes one to know one.
*Fuck you assholes!
| 277 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:11:49pm |
re: #261 American Sabra
For me, you either have the moral code or you don't have the moral code. It's either right to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran" 2, 3, 5 years ago or it wasn't. I never thought it was and those who agreed were in the minority.
Yes, I wanted (before the current revolution) to Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. I'm willing to wait the results of the current situation, if the regime is still in power and the revolution is put down.
The the Mad Mullahs and their nuclear ambitions should be a target.
To free the Iranian people from a repressive regime, and save the Middle East from a nuclear war.
Get the distinction?
| 278 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:12:08pm |
i gotta say, this has to be what it was like when apollo 13 was on the dark side of the moon. you are waiting to see what happens next, and you can't get any reliable info. you know there is some kind of uprising, but who is winning? impossible to tell. so all you can do is wait, cross your fingers and pray.
| 279 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:12:11pm |
re: #268 DaddyG
I love it! Can I steal that line the next time condescension is building up on my screen?
Hoo boy, you should have been sitting next to me last night.
| 280 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:12:12pm |
re: #270 wrenchwench
Were you here under another nic 2, 3, 5 years ago?
Probably not 5 years, a couple years. I've been reading for a long while.
| 282 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:12:18pm |
re: #263 Killgore Trout
Pat Buchanan and Peter Brimelow (VDARE founder) at 2009 White Nationalist "Conferenece" (check out the banner)
FAILBLOG material
| 283 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:12:58pm |
re: #271 Killgore Trout
Andrew Sullivan points out that is was an English only conference. You'd think they'd spell the banner properly.
Mabe Jon Cary cud halp
/
| 284 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:02pm |
re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
LIES! I have proof he and Col. Sanders are in hiding somewhere in the South Pacific living off their illicit gains.
Listening to Elvis live?
| 285 |
Lee Coller Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:21pm |
re: #237 American Sabra
I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure there are those here who called for nuking the whole region who still think so.
There was hardly any, if any at all, compassion towards Iran and it's people on this board. I'm fine if people had a change of heart, but it's just weird.
Who here has called for "nuking the whole region"? You made an accusation, you'd better back it up. I've been around here long enough to know if you find someone who has, and their account hasn't already been blocked, it soon will be.
| 286 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:24pm |
| 287 |
Russkilitlover Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:31pm |
re: #261 American Sabra
There has been talk of "taking out" the nuclear facilities but NEVER has there been talk of bombing civilians; quite the opposite, there HAS been a lot of support and admiration expressed for the Iranian people and lots of credit applied to them for being an educated and technically savvy populous.
If you think folks here have been calling for the destruction of the Iranian people (dictatorship leaders excepted), then you have some serious reading comprehension issues.
| 288 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:35pm |
re: #278 A.W.
i gotta say, this has to be what it was like when apollo 13 was on the dark side of the moon. you are waiting to see what happens next, and you can't get any reliable info. you know there is some kind of uprising, but who is winning? impossible to tell. so all you can do is wait, cross your fingers, bitch at Charles for not posting enough about it, and pray.
FTFY.
| 289 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:39pm |
re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
LIES! I have proof he and Col. Sanders are in hiding somewhere in the South Pacific living off their illicit gains.
Along with the son of a Nazi! Specifically, Admiral Doenitz' half-scottish son, Duncan. Surely you've heard of Duncan Doenitz?
| 290 |
Dianna Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:13:48pm |
re: #268 DaddyG
I love it! Can I steal that line the next time condescension is building up on my screen?
Feel free. Though I think it was Mandy from whom I got "special snowflake".
| 291 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:14pm |
re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
LIES! I have proof he and Col. Sanders are in hiding somewhere in the South Pacific living off their illicit gains.
And I know where!
Palau officials visit carrier, reiterate ties
The USS George Washington stopped about 100 miles off the tiny nation’s shores, allowing politicians to visit
[Link: www.navytimes.com...]
| 292 |
KenJen Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:16pm |
re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
LIES! I have proof he and Col. Sanders are in hiding somewhere in the South Pacific living off their illicit gains.
Nope. They've both kicked the bucket.
| 293 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:16pm |
re: #264 American Sabra
Maybe you came from one. Do you often accuse large numbers of people of holding the offensive views of a minority? People who have called for nuking nations or cities or special rocks have routinely been banned. I think that fact alone indicates the majority attitude here.
| 294 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:22pm |
re: #277 jcm
Yes, I wanted (before the current revolution) to Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. I'm willing to wait the results of the current situation, if the regime is still in power and the revolution is put down.
The the Mad Mullahs and their nuclear ambitions should be a target.
To free the Iranian people from a repressive regime, and save the Middle East from a nuclear war.
Get the distinction?
By the way.
Other legitimate and moral targets.
Every fucking Thug on the planet that rapes, enslaves and pillages entire countries.
| 295 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:28pm |
re: #284 jcm
Listening to Elvis live?
Dont be silly. Elvis is dead. Buddy Holly delivered a touching eulogy.
| 296 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:32pm |
re: #286 OldLineTexan
I was due to change it back. I should keep?
No. It is a cute kid and there are sickos out there.
| 297 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:35pm |
re: #286 OldLineTexan
I was due to change it back. I should keep?
Well, you're looking mighty fine. The kid holding you is cute too.
/
| 298 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:14:38pm |
Thanks to President Obama. The National Iranian American Council republishes a letter from an "ordinary Tehrani."Dear friend, if you have any contacts within the American Administration, please send them this message on behalf of us, ordinary Iranians in Iran (whose interests and concerns are very different from those of the exiled Iranians in the United States and in Europe who do not yet understand the mentality here and who have been cut off from the Iranian society for too long). Tell your contacts in the Administration that their point of view regarding Iran is by far the best position that an American Government has ever taken. We appreciate this and thank the President.
During the last two or three decades not one American president had "understood" Iran. All of them got caught in the traps of the mollahs, despite themselves having to play the bad cop .. but this time the intelligent president has decided not to join in their game, bravo.It is normal that he is criticized vividly by most of the Los Angeles Iranians (and by most Republicans): since a long time they have been asking for just one thing : that America attack Iran and change the regime so that they get their possessions and their former jobs and privileges back, without wanting to know what today's young Iranian wants here and now. It makes me think of the Cubans in Florida ... they don't consider the interests of their country but only what is due to them.
| 299 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:15:02pm |
re: #261 American Sabra
For me, you either have the moral code or you don't have the moral code. It's either right to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran" 2, 3, 5 years ago or it wasn't. I never thought it was and those who agreed were in the minority.
My moral code is based on liberty for all of God's children to choose their own destiny and worship according to the dictates of their own conscience.
That is a damn bit more principled than a hard line stance that says let evil and despotism reign as long as my hands aren't dirtied with blood and gunpowder.
| 300 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:15:10pm |
re: #292 KenJen
Nope. They've both kicked the bucket.
You're just believing what the MAN wants you to believe man.
| 301 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:15:14pm |
re: #280 American Sabra
Probably not 5 years, a couple years. I've been reading for a long while.
Not very closely, I guess.
| 302 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:15:27pm |
re: #266 LGoPs
But that was the catalyst. The Iranians saw a real election happen next door. If it had just been:
Vote for one:
[] Saddam
[] Being hanged
It would have been the same old same old. I have this strange feeling that Bush will get a much better review 10 years from now. Kinda like Truman.
| 303 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:16:14pm |
3:25 PM ET -- What Iranians are seeing in the papers. The front page of Kayhan News, a major Iranian newspaper. The splash headline: "$400 Million CIA Budget For Creating Riots After The Election."
| 304 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:16:28pm |
re: #264 American Sabra
LOL well unless I've entered the Twilight Zone, apparently I have!
Simple proof... search the archives and find a serious argument to nuke Iran that Charles or any other regular lizard let stand.
| 305 |
Jack Burton Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:16:38pm |
re: #290 Dianna
Feel free. Though I think it was Mandy from whom I got "special snowflake".
But you have to do it right: SPAYSHAL SNOWFLAKE!
| 306 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:16:46pm |
re: #277 jcm
Yes, I wanted (before the current revolution) to Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. I'm willing to wait the results of the current situation, if the regime is still in power and the revolution is put down.
The the Mad Mullahs and their nuclear ambitions should be a target.
To free the Iranian people from a repressive regime, and save the Middle East from a nuclear war.
Get the distinction?
Well I've always thought going all 1981 Osirak (Iran/Israel) on them was the answer. Quick easy, no one gets hurt. Of course, that's a difficult thing to put together and I'm not sure it's not in the works as we speak.
But I don't think into saving the world anymore. We get nothing but crap from it. Europe despised us after WWII. What the hell is up with that. Sometimes I think they can just rot. I don't really feel that way, but it does anger me. But time and again we stick our necks out, sacrifice our soliders, our money, and for what? We're going to start an armed conflict with Iran now? I don't see it.
| 307 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:16:51pm |
re: #297 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, you're looking mighty fine. The kid holding you is cute too.
/
You should see my tail wagging just now.
| 308 |
The Shadow Do Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:17:17pm |
re: #280 American Sabra
Probably not 5 years, a couple years. I've been reading for a long while.
Then you should be working on your reading comprehension.
| 309 |
A.W. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:17:22pm |
re: #288 wrenchwench
FTFY.
If you haven't notices that CJ is preoccupied with stuff i frankly think is less important, you haven't been paying attention.
3 years ago, CJ would have been all over this. And things are less likely to improve if we just pretend it isn't happening.
| 310 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:17:30pm |
| 312 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:18:19pm |
re: #303 Kenneth
3:25 PM ET -- What Iranians are seeing in the papers. The front page of Kayhan News, a major Iranian newspaper. The splash headline: "$400 Million CIA Budget For Creating Riots After The Election."
Seems the Iranians have a greater trust in the abilities of the CIA than we do?
| 313 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:18:30pm |
re: #303 Kenneth
3:25 PM ET -- What Iranians are seeing in the papers. The front page of Kayhan News, a major Iranian newspaper. The splash headline: "$400 Million CIA Budget For Creating Riots After The Election."
Damn! Now they're cribbing headlines from November 2008 pages of Democratic Underground! Those bastards!
| 314 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:18:36pm |
re: #261 American Sabra
I am still for bombing Iran's nuke facilities although I think we are way past the time when it could be effective.
Does that make me one of the 'majority' who want to turn Iran into glass?
You know damn well that if the little psycho gets nukes he's gonna turn the whole desert into glass.
| 315 |
Pianobuff Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:18:47pm |
re: #298 Killgore Trout
Do you know when this was written?
I'm trying to figure out whether the writer is in favor of the neutral position originally taking by Obama, or the position sympathizing with the protesters later on.
| 316 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:18:47pm |
re: #280 American Sabra
Probably not 5 years, a couple years. I've been reading for a long while.
Note: Reading and comprehension are two distinct things.
| 317 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:18:50pm |
re: #312 Nevergiveup
Seems the Iranians have a greater trust in the abilities of the CIA than we do?
Naw, they have fallen for the right-wing propaganda that Obama is spending like a drunken sailor!
/
| 318 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:19:35pm |
re: #317 OldLineTexan
Naw, they have fallen for the right-wing propaganda that Obama is spending like a drunken sailor!
/
Ah 400 million is hardly a drop in the bucket
| 319 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:20:09pm |
re: #318 Nevergiveup
Ah 400 million is hardly a drop in the bucket
Baby steps, my friend, baby steps.
/
| 320 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:20:36pm |
We had $400 million to blow in Iran? Then why didn't they have guns?
| 321 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:20:44pm |
re: #276 ArchangelMichael
Iranian Regime Comment --
Possible Responses:I know you are, but what am I?
Pot... Kettle.... Black...
Takes one to know one.
*Fuck you assholes!
I'm rubber and you're glue.....
| 322 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:20:49pm |
re: #309 A.W.
If you haven't notices that CJ is preoccupied with stuff i frankly think is less important, you haven't been paying attention.
3 years ago, CJ would have been all over this. And things are less likely to improve if we just pretend it isn't happening.
What I have seen is that you hate the ID/Creationism threads. You are the one preoccupied. And I find the idea that every topic Charles posts on should have equal or greater importance than all other posts patently absurd.
| 323 |
debutaunt Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:20:59pm |
| 324 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:20:59pm |
re: #313 Occasional Reader
Damn! Now they're cribbing headlines from November 2008 pages of Democratic Underground! Those bastards!
Let's put it on CD, then tell the RIAA.
| 325 |
legalpad Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:21:07pm |
re: #234 American Sabra
I think it was absolutely the standard view and had been for many years. Maybe folks were just talking tough, I don't know, but I guess it takes a few good videos of live deaths to inject a little compassion.
You seem to have some special source of absolute knowledge, but it is apparently inadequate to respond to my comments to you. You also seem to be confused by the idea of being allies with former enemies and enemies with former allies. Read a history book. It's not that complicated. Sometimes bombing is appropriate. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes collateral damage happens. We like the North Korean people too, but what shall we do if they nuke Honolulu and are preparing to nuke San Francisco? If people are ruled by dictators, sometimes the rest of the world is very hard on them. Just ask the Germans and the Japanese.
| 326 |
Wendya Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:21:19pm |
re: #298 Killgore Trout
Have you actually been to the NIAC website?
[Link: www.niacouncil.org...]
Heer's the opinion of the cofounder of that organization:
But here is one legitimate criticism , the Iranians are missing two words from Obama: "I condemn." Protesters and political leaders I've spoken to in Iran want the US to speak out forcefully against the government's human rights abuses and condemn the violence. Philosophical formulations about respecting the wishes of the Iranian people aren't enough: The president should clearly condemn the Iranian government's violations and use of brutal force against its own people.
[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]
| 327 |
OldLineTexan Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:21:32pm |
re: #320 EmmmieG
We had $400 million to blow in Iran? Then why didn't they have guns?
Have you priced ammo lately?
/
| 328 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:21:34pm |
re: #303 Kenneth
3:25 PM ET -- What Iranians are seeing in the papers. The front page of Kayhan News, a major Iranian newspaper. The splash headline: "$400 Million CIA Budget For Creating Riots After The Election."
Choose your response:
1) Well nuts, if they are going to accuse us of it anyway why not make it happen?
2) Yes but in Obama dollars that only amounts to three postcards and a coupon for a free small fry with purchase of a Big Mac.
3) Are you kidding we can't even get the CIA to communicate with the FBI- how do you suppose they are going to pull of civil disobedience in a foreign country?
| 329 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:22:13pm |
re: #309 A.W.
WTF? Iran has been discussed here all weekend. And I don't remember seeing where it was written that Charles had to cater to your whims and post only subject you find interesting.
| 330 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:22:17pm |
re: #327 OldLineTexan
Have you priced ammo lately?
/
Not personally, but Mr. EmmmieG (who would not be happy to be called that) has filled me in.
| 331 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:22:27pm |
re: #299 DaddyG
My moral code is based on liberty for all of God's children to choose their own destiny and worship according to the dictates of their own conscience.
That is a damn bit more principled than a hard line stance that says let evil and despotism reign as long as my hands aren't dirtied with blood and gunpowder.
Well I'm not sure I agree with your definition of moral code. If my conscience dictates that I worship Satan, that doesn't mean I have a moral code.
I'm not saying to let evil and despostim reign. But I do believe that revolution has to come from within. Otherwise whomever goes in guns-a-blazing will always be seen as an occupier.
| 333 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:22:43pm |
re: #306 American Sabra
Well I've always thought going all 1981 Osirak (Iran/Israel) on them was the answer. Quick easy, no one gets hurt. Of course, that's a difficult thing to put together and I'm not sure it's not in the works as we speak.
But I don't think into saving the world anymore. We get nothing but crap from it. Europe despised us after WWII. What the hell is up with that. Sometimes I think they can just rot. I don't really feel that way, but it does anger me. But time and again we stick our necks out, sacrifice our soliders, our money, and for what? We're going to start an armed conflict with Iran now? I don't see it.
So you wait until it's two late.
Tel Aviv and or Toyko is under a mushroom cloud and half of the US is incapacitated with an EMP.
It's not our problem until it's our problem?
The Second World War, Volume 1: The Gathering Storm
I prefer learning from history than repeating it.
| 334 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:22:58pm |
re: #329 Sharmuta
WTF? Iran has been discussed here all weekend. And I don't remember seeing where it was written that Charles had to cater to your whims and post only subject you find interesting.
I will not be happy until Charles re-writes the software to get up and get me a cookie whenever I please!
So there.
/////
| 336 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:23:47pm |
re: #309 A.W.
If you haven't notices that CJ is preoccupied with stuff i frankly think is less important, you haven't been paying attention.
3 years ago, CJ would have been all over this. And things are less likely to improve if we just pretend it isn't happening.
Perhaps you missed it earlier: bite me.
| 337 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:24:03pm |
re: #333 jcm
So you wait until it's two late.
Tel Aviv and or Toyko is under a mushroom cloud and half of the US is incapacitated with an EMP.It's not our problem until it's our problem?
The Second World War, Volume 1: The Gathering Storm
I prefer learning from history than repeating it.
I'm sure you read all the volumes like I did. What a read. I think I might read it again one of these days.
| 338 |
JustABill Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:24:04pm |
re: #302 Shr_Nfr
But that was the catalyst. The Iranians saw a real election happen next door. If it had just been:
Vote for one:
[] Saddam
[] Being hangedIt would have been the same old same old. I have this strange feeling that Bush will get a much better review 10 years from now. Kinda like Truman.
An excellent analysis that you'll never see in the American media.
| 339 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:24:28pm |
And that's enough of your stupid sniping. See ya!
| 341 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:24:57pm |
re: #336 Charles
Perhaps you missed it earlier: bite me.
Ya know some people are into biting? Just saying.
| 342 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:25:06pm |
re: #314 Eowyn2
I am still for bombing Iran's nuke facilities although I think we are way past the time when it could be effective.
Does that make me one of the 'majority' who want to turn Iran into glass?You know damn well that if the little psycho gets nukes he's gonna turn the whole desert into glass.
I am too, bombing their facilities. I guess that's proving more difficult.
| 344 |
Wendya Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:25:15pm |
re: #309 A.W.
If you haven't notices that CJ is preoccupied with stuff i frankly think is less important, you haven't been paying attention.
3 years ago, CJ would have been all over this. And things are less likely to improve if we just pretend it isn't happening.
The simple solution is to set up your own blog where you can discuss whatever you feel is important at any given moment.
Let us know how that goes, okay?
| 346 |
Creeping Eruption Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:26:40pm |
| 347 |
haakondahl Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:26:42pm |
re: #8 lawhawk
This is going to hurt the already reeling Iranian economy
Good. It will hurt the Iranian people, but it will hurt the regime more. The Iranian people can survive what the regime cannot.
| 348 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:27:24pm |
re: #339 Charles
And that's enough of your stupid sniping. See ya!
A new happy LGF2 poster...........
| 349 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:27:34pm |
re: #309 A.W.
Set's a new level of obliviousness: in a thread about Iran, it complains about a lack of threads on Iran.
| 350 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:28:44pm |
re: #331 American Sabra
Well I'm not sure I agree with your definition of moral code. If my conscience dictates that I worship Satan, that doesn't mean I have a moral code.
I'm not saying to let evil and despostim reign. But I do believe that revolution has to come from within. Otherwise whomever goes in guns-a-blazing will always be seen as an occupier.
Correction you disagree with my moral code not the definition of a moral code. And when did I or any other Lizard advocate going in to Iran with guns-a-blazing much less nuking them. I'm still waiting for your substanciation of that straw man argument.
Or does your strict moral code excuse you from seeking the whole truth in persuit of your point?
I'm off to the next thread. Get back to us if you want to provide evidence of the bloodthirstiness and shoot-em up position of the Lizards.
| 351 |
Lee Coller Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:28:48pm |
re: #349 Kenneth
Set's a new level of obliviousness: in a thread about Iran, it complains about a lack of threads on Iran.
It's worse than that, in the third thread in a row about Iran!
| 352 |
Kragar Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:29:10pm |
re: #349 Kenneth
Set's a new level of obliviousness: in a thread about Iran, it complains about a lack of threads on Iran.
Capt Oblivious pays no heed to your astute observations.
| 353 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:29:59pm |
re: #333 jcm
So you wait until it's two late.
Tel Aviv and or Toyko is under a mushroom cloud and half of the US is incapacitated with an EMP.It's not our problem until it's our problem?
The Second World War, Volume 1: The Gathering Storm
I prefer learning from history than repeating it.
When you find someone, preferably a world leader, who has actually learned from history, please introduce me.
| 354 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:30:54pm |
BTW- if the founding fathers moral code had not included valuing individual liberty over life you and I would likely not be able to have this debate today. At least not until someone else cam along that felt that way.
I think I'm pretty safely on the high ground with this one.
| 355 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:31:21pm |
re: #353 American Sabra
When you find someone, preferably a world leader, who has actually learned from history, please introduce me.
Not Obama that's for certain.
| 356 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:31:49pm |
re: #252 Sharmuta
People who post comments like "nuke them all" are not welcome here, and that has been the standard view for many years. Perhaps you've been reading a different blog?
Is the grille warmed up yet? Who's got the relish?
/I do, I 'relish' a good roasting!
| 357 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:33:08pm |
re: #350 DaddyG
Correction you disagree with my moral code not the definition of a moral code. And when did I or any other Lizard advocate going in to Iran with guns-a-blazing much less nuking them. I'm still waiting for your substanciation of that straw man argument.
Or does your strict moral code excuse you from seeking the whole truth in persuit of your point?
I'm off to the next thread. Get back to us if you want to provide evidence of the bloodthirstiness and shoot-em up position of the Lizards.
LOL not everything is a moral code simply because you say it is! If my religion believes in child sacrifice, than because it's my religion, it's moral?
| 358 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:33:55pm |
Funny, I had typed this and forgot to hit, "Post this comment". The power of the untyped comment.
re: #309 A.W.
Gosh. If I thought as little CJ as much as you, I would not be here. I would go away, and I would not come back.
| 359 |
American Sabra Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:34:54pm |
re: #355 jcm
Not Obama that's for certain.
Well, I'm not decided on him yet. I'm happy and not happy all at once. He's still baking, but his goose may be cooked already, who knows.
| 360 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:38:40pm |
re: #358 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Gosh. If I thought as little CJ as much as you, I would not be here. I would go away, and I would not come back.
But you don't get martyr cookies that way.
| 361 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:38:53pm |
re: #353 American Sabra
Certainly not this ahole we have as a POTUS who thinks he is the second coming.
| 362 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:39:04pm |
re: #359 American Sabra
Well, I'm not decided on him yet. I'm happy and not happy all at once. He's still baking, but his goose may be cooked already, who knows.
Not decided on Obama yet?
Alinsky alone should decide for anyone who believes in the founding principals of this country. The founding principals should also anwser your straw man in re: #357
| 364 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:40:19pm |
re: #339 Charles
And that's enough of your stupid sniping. See ya!
...and just hear that sizzle! Smell that gamey gristle!
/I'll miss his Root Beer, though...
| 365 |
Shr_Nfr Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:40:28pm |
| 366 |
Kenneth Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:42:06pm |
Iran's Battles on the Streets and Behind the Scenes
Altogether, this battle -- taking place far from the world of Twitter -- is the more immediate threat to Iran's stability. The level of infighting in the regime's upper levels is unprecedented and represents a litmus test for a supreme leader who, for two decades, has attempted to rule by consensus among the clerics and military elite. Ahmadinejad looks to have shaken things up more than Khamenei anticipated, and there is no guarantee that Khamenei's clout will be enough to subdue this growing anti-Ahmadinejad coalition.Things are looking rocky for the supreme leader, but political warfare among elites is not unique to Iran by any means. Such infighting is part and parcel of any politically competitive environment. Still, the Islamic Republic has never witnessed such deep schisms in the institutions that are designed to safeguard the Islamic Revolution. Khamenei has made a conscious choice in defending Ahmadinejad, but the price of that choice is creeping upward by the day.
| 367 |
haakondahl Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:42:15pm |
re: #309 A.W.
If you haven't notices that CJ is preoccupied with stuff i frankly think is less important, you haven't been paying attention.
3 years ago, CJ would have been all over this. And things are less likely to improve if we just pretend it isn't happening.
Stalk Much?
| 368 |
NelsFree Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:42:25pm |
Well, I'll just have two, well done, one with slaw, the other with relish. Please send them up to the next thread. Thanks!
| 369 |
ShanghaiEd Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:43:16pm |
re: #364 NelsFree
...and just hear that sizzle! Smell that gamey gristle!
/I'll miss his Root Beer, though...
I went to grammar school with a Gamey Gristle.
No, wait. That was Jamie Gristle...
Sorry.
| 370 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:44:07pm |
re: #364 NelsFree
...and just hear that sizzle! Smell that gamey gristle!
/I'll miss his Root Beer, though...
I have a child's mug from them, glass, circa '64. Supposed to be free refills for life, I should try it out.....
| 371 |
samsgran1948 Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:44:42pm |
re: #68 DaddyG
Besides, how can he save the world as he was sent down from on high to do if the damn world insists on saving itself?
| 372 |
haakondahl Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:45:20pm |
| 373 |
Vicious Babushka Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:45:33pm |
re: #237 American Sabra
I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure there are those here who called for nuking the whole region who still think so.
There was hardly any, if any at all, compassion towards Iran and it's people on this board. I'm fine if people had a change of heart, but it's just weird.
You are mistaken. People who have called for massive nuking of entire regions, whether the Middle East or Europe, have their accounts deleted.
| 374 |
jcm Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:55:04pm |
re: #372 haakondahl
Been there a while, I should think.
Now he goes back and brags how he counted coup.
| 375 |
Clubsec Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:59:41pm |
When the Shah left Iran the ayatollahs & mullahs took control and things have spiraled in to crap since. Prior to that time, the culmination of the Nixon strategy meant to strengthening the Shah in the ME, was the sale with training and support (read: the Iranian military got tech support packages for their new weaponry).
This was all well and good until Carter totally fucked that arrangement all up and we (Persians & us) have suffered the results ever since.
The missile business folk were curious when Hussein got into it with the Ayatollah and their 8 year border war. When 'Heavy Bombing Raids' consisted of two aircraft flying over enemy positions or cities and dropping a few poorly aimed weapons. My how the press stirred up the significance of those events (militarily equivalent to 'pin pricks' as it were). At any rate the press also made much ado regarding the mullahs now having some front line fighters (F-14A derivatives) AND for the first time (outside our own Navy) equipped with the AWG-9 weapon fire control system & AIM-54 the long range Phoenix missile.
My office mates were Phoenix SVL engineers and told the amazing story of how prior to their 'forced departure' from Iran they made it a point to get to the aircraft (GD and HAC folks working very carefully) to remove a certain circuit board from the AWG-9 system. This missing board made communication between the AWG-9 to the AIM-54 impossible. That is: the very capable Phoenix weapon is now equivalent to ballast.
Some field support engineers just have bigger cajones than most.
Oh, and that circuit diagram was somehow missing from the tech data pkg that the mullahs now claimed as their own. Das ist aberschade.
I suppose that makes us ... 'The Great Satan'?
| 376 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:01:57pm |
re: #349 Kenneth
Set's a new level of obliviousness: in a thread about Iran, it complains about a lack of threads on Iran.
Now it has passed its stalker blog initiation. Those stalker blogs really set the bar low. It isn't that hard to get banned if you want to. Two word can do it.
| 377 |
DaddyG Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:20:32pm |
re: #357 American Sabra
LOL not everything is a moral code simply because you say it is! If my religion believes in child sacrifice, than because it's my religion, it's moral?
I assume your equivocation of child sacrifice with my position of "Give me liberty or give me death" was a clumsy mistake and not an example of a real moral code (and please look up the distinction between moral code and morality before your respond).
Shame on me for returning to this discussion.
| 378 |
lostlakehiker Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:25:04pm |
re: #10 yma o hyd
No - and there was a tweet earlier on, by 'Stopahmadi', warning that thos tweets calling for violence against the police etc were coming from government sites.
The dissenters want peaceful protests, they do not want to fight a bloody street battle with weapons.
It may come to that ...
If it does, the protesters have lost. Their only chance is that some of the military and police come over to their cause. And why not? Most soldiers and officers are not Basiji thugs and not Republican Guards SS. They're regular Army, and they have families. Families that are getting beaten and bloodied just for insisting that their votes count.
A smart totalitarian regime keeps up a certain ---restraint----when it comes to women from its core demographic. Hitler, no nice guy, backed down when a bunch of German women, Aryans of the finest purity, insisted their jewish husbands be released from the camps. He reclassified those jews as honorary Aryans, and the German women went home, and everything was cool.
Shooting your own women in cold blood is bad karma. The Quran isn't that friendly to women's rights but a good careful reading could surely mine verses that prohibit the practice.
| 379 |
Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:40:36pm |
I read an article saying that the regime thugs use motorcycles to weave through the alleys of the city.
The next thing that jumps to mind is how motorcycles tend to slip on oil slicks.
| 381 |
filetandrelease Mon, Jun 22, 2009 2:56:35pm |
re: #71 zombie
Again, I am not advocating invasion. I'm simply saying we have the infrastructure in the immediate vicinity to help the protesters with arms, and to do some selective helping vis-a-vis targetting the basiji. All sub-rosa.
Great idea. Surely someone up top has to be considering if not implementing a variation of this idea.
| 382 |
nikis-knight Mon, Jun 22, 2009 3:33:34pm |
re: #357 American Sabra
LOL not everything is a moral code simply because you say it is! If my religion believes in child sacrifice, than because it's my religion, it's moral?
The phrase 'moral code' refers to a creed or code or worldview which defines for those that hold it what is and what is not of value.
The phrase 'moral code' is not in and of itself a value judgement of a particular creed or code under discussion.
Hopefully that clears up the confusion?
| 383 |
Syrah Mon, Jun 22, 2009 4:41:13pm |
re: #261 American Sabra
For me, you either have the moral code or you don't have the moral code. It's either right to "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran" 2, 3, 5 years ago or it wasn't. I never thought it was and those who agreed were in the minority.
By that standard, when is it right to stop?
Must today's enemy be our enemy forever?
| 384 |
Syrah Mon, Jun 22, 2009 4:42:35pm |
re: #379 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey
I read an article saying that the regime thugs use motorcycles to weave through the alleys of the city.
The next thing that jumps to mind is how motorcycles tend to slip on oil slicks.
Gravel does wonders as well. (Learned that one the hard way.)
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