Lame Excuse of the Week

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Robert Spencer is mixing it up with Michael J. Totten and Mary Madigan at Totten’s pad.

Totten asks Spencer a good question about his announced participation in the “Pro-Koln” conference — a question I’ve brought up as well:

If the nutjobs in Cologne did nothing but invite Pamela, why did they say she agreed to attend? If some fascistic or quasi-fascistic party did that to me, I would be extremely pissed off about it, and I wouldn’t go after Charles Johnson for noting it. I’d expect to be pilloried by my colleagues for something like that, but I would take it out on the conference organizers rather than those who quite properly sounded an alarm.

Indeed. Spencer’s answer, which he posted for the first time in Totten’s comments:

This is what happens when you only know one part of the story. There are things that went on in regard to that conference that are not going to be made public. Charles Johnson doesn’t know them, and he filled in the gaps in what he did know, as you are doing now, by making a number of erroneous assumptions and false conclusions. The bottom line is this: the line that Johnson has pursued, that Pamela and I are sympathizing with fascists, or “enabling” fascists, is not based on a shred of actual evidence. Rather, it is all surmise, jumping to conclusions, and guilt by association.

To paraphrase: “That information is classified Top Sekrit! You’re wrong, wrong, wrong, but I can’t tell you why, on pain of something or other… and Charles Johnson is eeeevvillll…”

Don’t miss Mary Madigan’s (“maryatexitzero”) comments in the thread, either.

Jump to bottom

417 comments
1 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:48:34pm
2 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:50:52pm

The "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" excuse. Brilliant!

3 victor_yugo  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:52:07pm

re: #1 legalpad

Doctor: "Would you like some drugs?"

Morticia Addams: "No, thanks. But do ask the children."

4 Bloodnok  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:52:33pm
Rather, it is all surmise, jumping to conclusions, and guilt by association.

Robert, it is guilt because of association.

5 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:52:48pm
6 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:54:10pm

What a crock. If it exonerates the man spill it! Since it's suddenly souper sekret I don't buy any of it.

7 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:54:20pm
In an earlier thread, I noted that Spencer and his anti-jihad clique have a certain M.O. They go on the rampage whenever a writer and/or blogger:

1. Disagrees with Spencer or a member of the anti-jihad clique
2. Says something positive about Bosnian Muslims or Albanians
3. Says something negative about Serbian nationalism
3. Says something negative about Eurofascist groups like Vlaams Belang
4. Does not worship Geert Wilders
5. Says something positive about Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs

That's perfect.

8 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 6:55:04pm

re: #5 Terp Mole
Don't read the thread then.

9 SteveC  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:00:05pm
and Charles Johnson is eeeevvillll...”

So I've been hanging out with the head of the Bicycle Mafia all this time?

I'm down with that.

10 SasquatchOnSteroids  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:01:12pm

Sounds like Joe Isuzu

Truuust meeee.

11 victor_yugo  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:01:51pm

re: #9 SteveC

So I've been hanging out with the head of the Bicycle Mafia all this time?

I'm down with that.

The Bicycle Mafia?

Now we know how Lance Armstrong wins the TdF.

12 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:02:19pm

Greta of all people is hosting an Apollo 11 special.

13 Terp Mole  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:03:18pm

Deleted?

All the sudden, I'm the bad guy.

/nice

14 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:04:21pm

"There are things that went on in regard to that conference that are not going to be made public." Fascinating! He's basically saying 'I'm in the right but I can't tell you why'. Sorry, no sale. And this man expects people to take him seriously?

15 quiet man  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:04:27pm

You can send $20.00 away and get the secret decoder ring for the meeting, then you will know the secret meetings were about. You can even answer back in code with the built in whistle.

And it all goes for charity

16 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:04:45pm

re: #13 Terp Mole
Not a bad guy, read the rules.

17 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:04:55pm

What's interesting is robert is basically saying that Charles and Mr Totten are wrong, but as far as the actual facts are concerned, we'll just have to take it on his good authority they're wrong. But the problem is with the loss of mr spencer's credibility due to these "misunderstandings" and "set-ups" he's suffered recently. I can't just accept he's being honest when I've been presented facts from one source but not the other. Now it just looks like he's hiding something- and the loss of credibility deepens.

18 Gordon Marock  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:05:15pm

I have never been a frequent commenter, but want to state how important I think it is to stand up for reason despite the consequences, as Charles has done. It is critical that Islam combats and defeats a powerful internal element, radical Islam. Whatever you want to call it, some type of 'reformation' from within Islam is necessary to defeat this element. Similarly, ideas such as: a) the earth is 6,000 years old, b) Muslims worship the Devil, c) and that the US should be governed by 'Biblical Law,' are all ideas that were supposedly dealt with in 'reforming' Western Christianity. To win the 'war,' modernity must stand against superstition and tribal instinct. This is not, in any way, selling out to anything. So, my point is . . . . ., not sure. Anyway, Charles, keep it up.

19 SteveC  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:05:26pm

re: #13 Terp Mole

Deleted?

All the sudden, I'm the bad guy.

/nice

We are who we choose to be.

20 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:05:39pm

re: #13 Terp Mole

Why is it okay to trash the owner of a blog?

21 SteveC  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:06:29pm

re: #15 quiet man

You can send $20.00 away and get the secret decoder ring for the meeting, then you will know the secret meetings were about. You can even answer back in code with the built in whistle.

And it all goes for charity

"I have got to get me one of these!" - Will Smith

22 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:07:02pm

By the way, did anyone ever see this?

"Robert, can you answer one simple question for me. This would help a lot in deciding what is really going on here. Which European political parties do you UNCONDITIONALLY condemn because of their proven ties to racist nationalism?" (Walter L. Newton email to Robert Spencer sent on Friday, November 07, 2008 1:16 PM)

And his answer...

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not implied." (Robert Spencer email answer to Walter L. Newton sent on Sat 11/8/2008 10:39 AM)

Oops. Wrong answer, huh Robert.

23 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:07:21pm

Where's Walter?

24 quiet man  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:08:10pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton
I really think you need to know which way to point your sword when entering battle.

25 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:08:11pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

By the way, did anyone ever see this?

"Robert, can you answer one simple question for me. This would help a lot in deciding what is really going on here. Which European political parties do you UNCONDITIONALLY condemn because of their proven ties to racist nationalism?" (Walter L. Newton email to Robert Spencer sent on Friday, November 07, 2008 1:16 PM)

And his answer...

"Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not implied." (Robert Spencer email answer to Walter L. Newton sent on Sat 11/8/2008 10:39 AM)

Oops. Wrong answer, huh Robert.

Oh, there you are!

26 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:08:44pm

Good evening all,

Guess I'll start off with a beer, this could be an interesting thread.

SSSSSSsssnnnnnrkk-chpkafwut!
*Glug*

27 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:10:20pm

re: #15 quiet man

You can send $20.00 away and get the secret decoder ring for the meeting, then you will know the secret meetings were about. You can even answer back in code with the built in whistle.

And it all goes for charity

No, the whistle is to call for Underdog! Only he can hear the ultra-high pitched tone.
/h

28 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:10:42pm

re: #14 MrPaulRevere

"There are things that went on in regard to that conference that are not going to be made public." Fascinating! He's basically saying 'I'm in the right but I can't tell you why'. Sorry, no sale. And this man expects people to take him seriously?

Not just seriously- but the one with the moral authority to say he's right, others are wrong and he doesn't have to prove it by anything other than his reputation. Uh- right.

29 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:11:09pm

Poor Michael. Carol Herman posts at his blog.

30 SteveC  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:12:32pm

re: #28 Sharmuta

Not just seriously- but the one with the moral authority to say he's right, others are wrong and he doesn't have to prove it by anything other than his reputation. Uh- right.

Say, I knew a guy with a funny name - I think it was "Barak" - had the same attitude! Wonder whatever happened to him?

31 quiet man  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:13:16pm

re: #27 NelsFree

Maybe Underdog can *sense* the important secrets that must remain in the shadows for the nonce and we'll know. Dogs might be psychic.

32 quiet man  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:14:41pm

re: #30 SteveC
I heard of him, Struck it big, Big spender now. God persoanlly helped him choose his wardrobe.

33 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:14:43pm

re: #17 Sharmuta

Now it just looks like he's hiding something- and the loss of credibility deepens.

I could not have put it better. It's like reading the back sleeve of a hardcover by (insert famous mystery novelist here) at Borders while holding a Vanilla Caramel Kremekula as it slowly melts, the whipped cream on the carpeting forming a pattern of --what?!
/h

34 BignJames  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:15:06pm

re: #3 victor_yugo

"How about some super sex"?


Uhh...I'll have the soup.

35 quiet man  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:16:14pm

re: #34 BignJames

He could have both..soup to nuts

36 victor_yugo  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:18:24pm

re: #34 BignJames

"Do you still love me?"

"Oh, cara mia..."

"The old ball and chain?"

"I'll go get them!"

37 victor_yugo  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:18:50pm

Actually, I think I'll watch "The Dark Knight" tonight.

L8r all

38 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:19:27pm

re: #31 quiet man

Nonce: (noun) - for the nonce for the present [a mistaken division of for then anes, for the once]
Misword!

/Somebody lasso that pony, he's out wanderin' the back 40 again.

39 SteveC  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:20:16pm

re: #37 victor_yugo

Actually, I think I'll watch "The Dark Knight" tonight.

"Who are you?!?!"

"I want you to tell all your friends about me. I'm Batman."

40 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:23:01pm

Mystery methane belched out by megacities

The Los Angeles metropolitan area belches far more methane into its air than scientists had previously realised. If other megacities are equally profligate, urban methane emissions may represent a surprisingly important source of this potent greenhouse gas.

/oh sure, and the want to regulate cow farts

41 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:23:04pm

OJ Simpson and Scott Peterson offered simillar defenses.

Couldn't fill in the gaps, wives dead, motive intact.

But there is someone else to blame - the "real" killer.

42 Truck Monkey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:24:00pm

re: #29 Noam Sayin'

Poor Michael. Carol Herman posts at his blog.

I remember her. Her screeds were akin to talking to someone who was stoned.

43 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:24:43pm

re: #17 Sharmuta

What's interesting is robert is basically saying that Charles and Mr Totten are wrong, but as far as the actual facts are concerned, we'll just have to take it on his good authority they're wrong. But the problem is with the loss of mr spencer's credibility due to these "misunderstandings" and "set-ups" he's suffered recently. I can't just accept he's being honest when I've been presented facts from one source but not the other. Now it just looks like he's hiding something- and the loss of credibility deepens.

It's pretty funny that earlier this week when the ALA panel refused to appear with him on stage. One person posted an article about his lack of academic credentials, questionable associations and statement. Spencer responded by posting half nude pics of the guy. In Spencer's mind I'm sure this was a huge victory.

44 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:25:40pm

re: #42 Truck Monkey

They still are.

I remember her from the Powerline days. I think she got booted there, too.

45 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:26:10pm

Later folks

46 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:26:31pm

Spencer the Wünderclown says:

guilt by association.

I'll add: with racist neo-nazis

Right, and this is OK for you, or anyone else for that matter, why exactly?

We are resisting jihad, not annihilation by aliens or demons or some shit... Association with neo-nazis is not excusable under any circumstances less life threatening than the above.

47 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:26:34pm

re: #45 pingjockey

Bye ping!

48 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:27:14pm
49 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:28:08pm

Spencer writes in his post: "Johnson's smear campaign is relentless, but in reality Pamela is about the least "deranged" person I know."
Wow. Just, wow. Cognitive dissonance AND Projection; together again for the first time!

50 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:29:12pm

Bye, Ping! Down doppler and fading...

51 NelsFree  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:29:40pm

Have I killed another thread??

52 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:30:38pm

From Totten's comments:

Robert Spencer,

I just don't think Johnson has succeeded in proving they're fascists.

And that says a lot about you. I'm not a reader of LGF and never have been, but I am somebody who gets accused of being "right wing" and a "fascist" on Arab and Iranian blogs. I clicked MJT's links and read the posts on LGF, and I clicked on their links, and I looked at their evidence, and you know what? I'm pretty convinced. If you don't want Westerners to be reject hateful extremist Western ideologies, then how do you expect to convince Muslims that they should reject hateful Islamic ideologies? Or is that even your goal? I had always thought it was. If your intent is to call for a fight to the death against Islam with no possibility of compromise then your readers deserve to know that.

Posted by: programmmer_craig at July 17, 2009 12:17 PM

I think it's really wonderful a reasonable Totten reader clicked through and came to conclude what seems so elusive to robert, et al: these people stink. That robert & co continue to insist otherwise reflects poorly on them.

53 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:30:47pm

re: #49 NelsFree

Spencer: You got you your cognative dissonance on my projection!

Gellar: You got your projection all over my cognative dissonance!

/Peanutbutter cup ad campaign.

54 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:35:01pm

re: #24 quiet man

I really think you need to know which way to point your sword when entering battle.

What?

55 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:35:25pm

Mr. Spencer,

Charles Johnson has more credibility than you do.

'nuff said.

56 TheMatrix31  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:36:01pm

Yay Erin Andrews!

57 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:37:10pm

re: #48 monsonman

Do you know Spencer's history of associating with fascists?

58 The Other Les  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:37:38pm

The problem with dropping below what we could call the mental event horizon is one doesn't always see that some erroneous belief on their part is leading them to become the ideological opponent of what they started out as. They've failed what Ayn Rand used to call a premise check. I've seen it happen up close.

Steven Michael Barry, the publisher and editor of The Resister, started out firmly in the Objectivist camp with regard to basic philosophy. Over the course of time he went from being a rational patriot to being a white nationalist. Even going as far as to openly join the Neo-Nazi National Alliance as an adviser. In the process he lost most of his friends, contributors, and readers. In effect he became part of the problem of collectivism that he started out opposing.

I stopped writing for The Resister and started working some fan-fiction set in the official universe of a role playing game. Shortly thereafter Steve Barry disappeared off the face of the Earth.

59 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:39:01pm
60 David Simon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:39:59pm
On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn that would require all Members and their staffs to enroll in any new government-run health plan. Yet all Democrats -- with the exceptions of acting chairman Chris Dodd, Barbara Mikulski and Ted Kennedy via proxy -- voted nay.

In other words, Sherrod Brown and Sheldon Whitehouse won't themselves join a plan that "will offer benefits that are as good as those available through private insurance plans -- or better," as the Ohio and Rhode Island liberals put it in a recent op-ed. And even a self-described socialist like Vermont's Bernie Sanders, who supports a government-only system, wouldn't sign himself up.

Of course, they also qualify now for generous Congressional coverage. Most Americans won't have the same choice. Some will be transferred to the new entitlement as it uses its taxpayer bankroll to dominate insurance markets. Others work for businesses that will find it easier to dump their policies and move employees to the federal rolls. Democrats also know that the public option will try to control health spending by squeezing payments made to doctors and hospitals, and by not paying for treatments that Washington decides are too expensive, which will result in inferior care.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

61 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:40:33pm

Wow- stunning comment at Totten's that I think is worth reposting here, concerning vlaams belang:

I see mention in this discussion of the Belgian party Vlaams Belang (VB). Here's a personal anecdote about it. The place was Groeneplaats in Antwerp, and the time was the autumn of 1968. There had been a demonstration that Sunday in which thousands of Flemish turned out to demand "amnesty." The amnesty they demanded was for Flemish who had collaborated with the Nazis during WWII and who were still in jail. The demonstrators were of course demanding that the collaborators be released. I was away from the demonstration but was physically assaulted that day by a thug who said to his pal, "Ja, jood." No serious physical damage, but I was taken by an undercover cop who turned me over to a nurse and doctor. They patched me up. An older man in the crowd explained to me that I had been attacked "because you look like a Jew."
At that time, the Flemish extremist party was called "Volksunie" (People's Union). It has reconfigured itself a couple of times over the past 40 years but today the same party calls itself "Vlaams Belang."

Posted by: Harold at July 17, 2009 1:30 PM

Emphasis added. Nice folks pamela and robert are whitewashing.

62 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:46:01pm

re: #61 Sharmuta

Sometimes it seems that nobody is learning anything.

63 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:46:36pm

re: #62 legalpad

Sometimes it seems that nobody is learning anything.

"My mind is made up don't confuse me with facts."

64 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:48:05pm

re: #63 jcm

"My mind is made up don't confuse me with facts."

It seems to me that there are at least 3 elements in making good decisions: intelligence, honesty, courage. What the hell has happened to people?

65 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:49:51pm

re: #64 legalpad

It seems to me that there are at least 3 elements in making good decisions: intelligence, honesty, courage. What the hell has happened to people?

hubris, ego, narcissism....and blog traffic of course

66 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:50:35pm
Robert, I have series of saved emails in which you were harassing me after I published a commentary on Solomonia titled "Nazis. I hate these guys" in May of this year. In that article, I criticized you for working Serge Trifkovic, one of the leaders of the Bosnian Serbs during the years of ethnic cleansing. I also criticized Pamela Geller for saying "the Nazis are not the problem", but otherwise, I mostly praised the work you, Pamela and Charles Johnson have done in opposing Jihad.

Also, at no point did I accuse you or Pamela of being fascists. Still, you sent me, 'Solomon' of Solomonia a series of emails calling me a 'twit', a 'character assassin', a 'libeller', a 'self-centered twit'. You sent a series of harassing emails to Sol, demanding that he publish your 'response' to my nonexistent accusations.

You also cc'd Pamela Geller and Andrew Bostom - and you made a point of forwarding any nasty comments they made about me. Pamela helped you write your 'response' on Solomonia, which also demanded apologies.

Bostom dutifully barked in the comment section.

The next day, Bruce Bawer described how he was harassed by a group of 'anti-jihadis'.

You may be able to pretend to be a respected scholar here but in my archived email folders, you're quite the mean girl. Now, you appear to be trying to blame Bostom for some of your actions.

Yes it's all ridiculous and it's as far from reasoned disagreement as it gets.

Posted by: maryatexitzero at July 17, 2009 1:57 PM

Wow! He's a bully.

67 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:50:45pm

Robert offers -

"Actually I have nothing to do with Vlaams Belang at all. I just don't think Johnson has succeeded in proving they're fascists."

So these are people he doesn't associate with even though there is noting wrong with associating with them. Just like the Serbian genocidal freak-a-zoids he sits on panels with - "I don't defend Slobodan Milosevic, not that there is any thing wrong with those that do."

I am glad that is all cleared up.

68 poteen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:51:17pm

Just finished reading at MJT. Lively exchange.

Spencer is a scholar of the Koran. That has been his niche for years.And he's good at it, gotta give him that. But recently it seems to me that rather than being a reference tool he wants to get on a horse and lead the next Crusade.
With steady progress in the war on terror his position is diminishing so he needs a new role. Meetings with shady politicians, any European conference of any stripe and blog debates may get him a bigger web presence but don't help anything.
I honestly think thats all it's about.

69 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:51:32pm

Wild salmon and veggies are on the grill. 15-20 minutes.

Can't wait.

70 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:52:38pm

re: #64 legalpad

It seems to me that there are at least 3 elements in making good decisions: intelligence, honesty, courage. What the hell has happened to people?

Gone with other "outdated" ideas like liberty, duty, responsibility, self reliance.

71 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:53:18pm

re: #69 Racer X

Wild salmon and veggies are on the grill. 15-20 minutes.

Can't wait.

Damn it. Now I want salmon!

72 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:53:22pm

re: #69 Racer X

Wild salmon and veggies are on the grill. 15-20 minutes.

Can't wait.

On my way! I'll pick up drinks what do you like?

73 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:54:21pm

re: #68 poteen

Just finished reading at MJT. Lively exchange.

Spencer is a scholar of the Koran. That has been his niche for years.And he's good at it, gotta give him that. But recently it seems to me that rather than being a reference tool he wants to get on a horse and lead the next Crusade.
With steady progress in the war on terror his position is diminishing so he needs a new role. Meetings with shady politicians, any European conference of any stripe and blog debates may get him a bigger web presence but don't help anything.
I honestly think thats all it's about.


Well his books sold well and now they aren't. But I don't think his association with euro fascists is in any way benign. The history is both ugly and clear - nationalism, race theory and europeans don't mix well.

74 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:54:47pm

re: #71 legalpad

Damn it. Now I want salmon!

I'm doing range fed pizza...two minutes with a blowtorch

75 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:55:47pm

Wow- there are some seriously good smack downs over at Totten's.

76 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:57:59pm

Missed that one.

What is it about lurking for a couple years just go and get yourself blocked?

Some people have no respect for the incredible opportunity presented by the blog world.

In all honesty, I got banned once from Kos, but that was within 45 days and all of about 8 posts. I called Ted Kennedy an asshole - on his thread.

77 DEZes  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 7:59:49pm

re: #76 Noam Sayin'

Missed that one.

What is it about lurking for a couple years just go and get yourself blocked?

Some people have no respect for the incredible opportunity presented by the blog world.

In all honesty, I got banned once from Kos, but that was within 45 days and all of about 8 posts. I called Ted Kennedy an asshole - on his thread.

Now thats funny.
G-nite all.

78 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:00:27pm

re: #49 NelsFree

Spencer writes in his post: "Johnson's smear campaign is relentless, but in reality Pamela is about the least "deranged" person I know."
Wow. Just, wow. Cognitive dissonance AND Projection; together again for the first time!

If Pamela is the least deranged person he knows, I sure as hell don't wanna hang out around his circle of acquaintances.

79 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:00:57pm

re: #72 jcm

On my way! I'll pick up drinks what do you like?

With Salmon?

Perhaps a nice Hefeweizen?

80 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:01:10pm

re: #76 Noam Sayin'

Missed that one.

What is it about lurking for a couple years just go and get yourself blocked?

Some people have no respect for the incredible opportunity presented by the blog world.

In all honesty, I got banned once from Kos, but that was within 45 days and all of about 8 posts. I called Ted Kennedy an asshole - on his thread.

Ted Kennedy had a thread at Kos?

81 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:01:26pm

re: #55 jcm

Mr. Spencer,

Charles Johnson has more credibility than you do.

'nuff said.

And so does Michael J. Totten.

82 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:01:30pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

It's pretty funny that earlier this week when the ALA panel refused to appear with him on stage. One person posted an article about his lack of academic credentials, questionable associations and statement. Spencer responded by posting half nude pics of the guy. In Spencer's mind I'm sure this was a huge victory.

He's taking lessons from BNP ass-kisser Belien.

83 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:01:45pm

re: #78 Salamantis

If Pamela is the least deranged person he knows, I sure as hell don't wanna hang out around his circle of acquaintances.

It would be interesting to see all of them on blotter.

84 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:04:39pm

re: #83 MandyManners

It would be interesting to see all of them on blotter.

What makes you think they aren't already?

/You did mean blotter acid, didn't you?

85 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:04:49pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

It's pretty funny that earlier this week when the ALA panel refused to appear with him on stage. One person posted an article about his lack of academic credentials, questionable associations and statement. Spencer responded by posting half nude pics of the guy. In Spencer's mind I'm sure this was a huge victory.

He puts the "k" in "klassy".

86 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:04:51pm

At Totten's Spencer says:

"Bawer did not mention me in his piece, and contrary to Johnson's claims, could not have been referring to me -- because I never made VB a "litmus test," I never wrote to him about his earlier piece, and I never called Pim Fortuyn a "libertine."


At Dhimmiwatch, Spencer's site, Hugh Fitzgerald says:

What made Pim Fortuyn, the bemused and martyred Dutch libertine, "right-wing," as he was routinely called, so stupidly, in the French, British, American press?
87 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:05:12pm

re: #84 Salamantis

What makes you think they aren't already?

/You did mean blotter acid, didn't you?

Yep.

88 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:09:21pm

That's one of the most amazing threads I've read in a long time. It's more clear to me now why robert has seemed to become more shill of late- more and more people are starting to see him for exactly who he is.

89 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:10:55pm

Opps,

Charles, I quoted the deleted and banned troll in #48 in my #59.

D'oh!

90 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:11:04pm

Does everybody recognize amillennialist, who posted on the Totten thread? He was one of the more extreme biblical literalist creationists booted off LGF.

91 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:11:08pm

Yes I cook on a propane grill. Yes I just ran out.

*hangs head in shame*

Yes I had a spare.

A few more minutes.

92 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:11:37pm

If anyone wants to read a serious tutorial on radical Islam I suggest "Militant Islam reaches America" by Daniel Pipes. Mr. Pipes is a genuine scholar. And while he offers a tough minded sober analysis, he is no bigot. I'm reading it for the third or fourth time as its one of those books that seems more insightful every time you read it. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

93 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:13:03pm

re: #91 Racer X

Yes I cook on a propane grill. Yes I just ran out.

*hangs head in shame*

Yes I had a spare.

A few more minutes.

Propane!

Infidel!

I GRIIILLLL YOU!

94 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:13:45pm

re: #91 Racer X

I'm getting a lot of culinary use out of my hand held propane torch these days. I'm usually a charcoal grill guy but the torch is really handy for short jobs.

95 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:13:56pm

How is Pam deranged? Let me count the ways:
She calls Rabbis who think moderates might exist in Islam "kapos".
She's a nirther
Every kookspiracy that Weird Nut Doomly comes up with appears on her blog
She thinks the Chinese are going to take her house through Emminent Domain
She uses Neo-Nazi news sources for leads
there are of course others...

96 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:13:59pm

re: #93 jcm

Propane!

Infidel!

I GRIIILLLL YOU!

Lazy man's Que.

97 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:14:11pm

Interesting comments. This one should be a "sticky" for LGF. It's from maryatexitzero:

In an earlier thread, I noted that Spencer and his anti-jihad clique have a certain M.O. They go on the rampage whenever a writer and/or blogger:

1. Disagrees with Spencer or a member of the anti-jihad clique
2. Says something positive about Bosnian Muslims or Albanians
3. Says something negative about Serbian nationalism
4. Says something negative about Eurofascist groups like Vlaams Belang
5. Does not worship Geert Wilders
6. Says something positive about Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs

I've actually experienced numbers 2 and 3 from the lower forms of life.

98 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:14:51pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

I'm getting a lot of culinary use out of my hand held propane torch these days. I'm usually a charcoal grill guy but the torch is really handy for short jobs.

I saw your recipe the other night - Torch Tuna was it? I'll have to try that some time!

99 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #95 Thanos

How is Pam deranged? Let me count the ways:
She calls Rabbis who think moderates might exist in Islam "kapos".
She's a nirther
Every kookspiracy that Weird Nut Doomly comes up with appears on her blog
She thinks the Chinese are going to take her house through Emminent Domain
She uses Neo-Nazi news sources for leads
there are of course others...

The list goes on and on. She also has a really disturbing fetish for posting blood and gore images of decapitations and mutilated fetuses.

100 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:16:05pm

re: #95 Thanos

Weird Nut Doomly

Ha!

101 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:16:22pm

re: #90 Salamantis

Does everybody recognize amillennialist, who posted on the Totten thread? He was one of the more extreme biblical literalist creationists booted off LGF.

Yep, I remember him. I can't recall if he is Melchite, or just fundamentalist (as in everything the church has done since the Chalcedon conference is wrong and evil)

102 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:16:49pm

re: #88 Sharmuta

That's one of the most amazing threads I've read in a long time. It's more clear to me now why robert has seemed to become more shill of late- more and more people are starting to see him for exactly who he is.

I'm glad more people are seeing the truth about him (other than knee-jerk lefties who have always labeled anyone vocally in opposition to Jihad as hatemongers or Islamophobes). I was afraid that non-kool aid drinkers were few and far between, but my faith in people is rising a little bit.

103 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:16:51pm

re: #95 Thanos

Pam also had some very unkind words for Daniel Pipes; I can't recall exactly what she said and I'm too lazy to research it.

104 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:17:07pm

re: #98 Racer X

It works really well and since you're cooking it from the top there's no worry about sticking to the grill. It's always a hazard when grilling fish.

105 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:18:06pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

A little bit of that stuff goes a long way. I don't see the point in it anymore.

106 poteen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:18:11pm

re: #73 karmic_inquisitor

Well his books sold well and now they aren't. But I don't think his association with euro fascists is in any way benign. The history is both ugly and clear - nationalism, race theory and europeans don't mix well.

I don't disagree with that.
My point is he's looking to create controversy to stay in the public eye.
Anti Islam conferences in Europe and blog dustups here. That he hitched his wagon to a lame horse is obvious. I hate racists more than you can know but I don't think a Nazified Belgium is in the future. The VB and their ilk have been around a long time and likely will never go away.
Kinda like cockroaches.

107 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:19:09pm

re: #97 Gus 802

I've actually experienced numbers 2 and 3 from the lower forms of life.

Keep up the good work. If you can hit 1 through 6, you get your user name on the front page of Jihad Watch.

108 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:20:25pm

re: #88 Sharmuta

That's one of the most amazing threads I've read in a long time. It's more clear to me now why robert has seemed to become more shill of late- more and more people are starting to see him for exactly who he is.

Methinks that maybe you meant 'more shrill'.

Or maybe not.

109 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:21:02pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

I've done 1 through 6, perhaps not all of them here out in the open though. Regardless RS can kindly keep me off of JW.

110 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:21:17pm

re: #107 Sharmuta

Keep up the good work. If you can hit 1 through 6, you get your user name on the front page of Jihad Watch.

For a while there I thought that might just happen. Then I would become Libelgus ad infinitum.

111 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:22:49pm

re: #108 Salamantis

Methinks that maybe you meant 'more shrill'.

Or maybe not.

A shrill shill......

112 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:23:26pm

Is this the first time Spencer's even made mention of Bawer's piece?

113 Wendya  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:23:27pm

re: #95 Thanos


She thinks the Chinese are going to take her house through Emminent Domain

I can't believe anyone is still trotting that garbage out.

114 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:23:49pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

I'm getting a lot of culinary use out of my hand held propane torch these days. I'm usually a charcoal grill guy but the torch is really handy for short jobs.

as much as I teased you about that, it does seem like a good idea....it's a whole different ambience tho...hot dogs would be a snap

115 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:24:08pm

There's a big constellation of lobby and publishing money behind some of the folks Charles has outed like Spencer etc., and they aren't taking kindly to this. It's why anyone who appears to be supportive of moderate views gets attacked. It's why this keeps coming up, each time they get gored worse but they keep coming back for more. At some point someone needs to climb the tree and do a "follow the networks" thing on them.

116 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:25:27pm

re: #108 Salamantis

Methinks that maybe you meant 'more shrill'.

Or maybe not.

There was probably a big drop-off in sales of books about the Yellow Peril after 1946, too.

117 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:26:00pm

re: #108 Salamantis

Yes. I think his buddy pamela is rubbing off on him.

118 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:26:20pm

re: #113 Wendya

I can't believe anyone is still trotting that garbage out.

To be fair she's not anymore since I exposed the source of that (Hal Turner)

119 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:27:30pm

re: #114 albusteve

Residential cooking units (even broilers) on a really good stove just don't produce enough heat. I might eventually invest in a commercial grade stove but in the mean time the blow torch does a damn fine job.

120 poteen  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:27:52pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

Yes. I think his buddy pamela is rubbing off on him.

That gave me another vision I can't get rid of.

121 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:29:34pm

re: #7 Sharmuta

That's perfect.

Oops, didn't see that you posted that list already. ;)

122 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:30:10pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

Yes. I think his buddy pamela is rubbing off on him.

Blog frotage!

123 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:30:55pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Residential cooking units (even broilers) on a really good stove just don't produce enough heat. I might eventually invest in a commercial grade stove but in the mean time the blow torch does a damn fine job.

merlot in one hand, torch in the other...it's the visual impression

124 Salamantis  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:31:26pm

re: #122 jcm

Blog frotage!

Blog tribadism, actually...

125 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:33:29pm

re: #124 Salamantis

Blog tribadism, actually...

Dermatological bloggery.

/

126 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:34:11pm

re: #115 Thanos

Very deep rabbit hole.

127 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:35:22pm

Silly News of the Day:
Police seek man with fetish for exercise balls

Court documents said the man told police he slashed the rubber balls to satisfy a sexual urge. Experts said he has an unusual attraction to inflatable exercise devices.

And the 2nd one:
Oscar Mayer Wienermobile crashes into Wis. home
No one was injured.

128 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:37:29pm

There is a little, ittsy bittsy, teensy, weensy grain of truth in PG and China eminent domain over her house.

Okay, not really but it reminded me of a headline.

Commerce Secretary: Americans ‘Need to Pay’ for Chinese Emissions

But yesterday, Commerce Secretary Gary Locke said something amazing—U.S. consumers should pay for part of Chinese greenhouse-gas emissions.
“It’s important that those who consume the products being made all around the world to the benefit of America — and it’s our own consumption activity that’s causing the emission of greenhouse gases, then quite frankly Americans need to pay for that,” Commerce Secretary Gary Locke told the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai.
129 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:38:03pm

re: #120 poteen

That gave me another vision I can't get rid of.

Sorry!

130 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:38:13pm

cooking by the book....

132 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:47:01pm

re: #127 reine.de.tout

Silly News of the Day:
Police seek man with fetish for exercise balls

And the 2nd one:
Oscar Mayer Wienermobile crashes into Wis. home
No one was injured.

Reine: Well, I got my laugh of the day. I saw the headline for the first item and thought, "Well, that's a medical condition I've never heard of before..." :)

133 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:50:21pm

re: #131 Ojoe

Friday's gloaming. 'Tis purple. Towercam. "Paradise is all around us and we do not understand."

— Thomas Merton

Beautiful Merton quote, Ojoe. I think I've mentioned to you that I'm an admirer of his as well. Have you read Merton's correspondence with Flannery O'Connor, by any chance?

134 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:50:25pm

re: #132 ShanghaiEd

Evening, SE.

135 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:50:41pm
136 CynicalConservative  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:51:57pm

re: #135 albusteve

outside my back yard....

[Link: www.unit16.net...]

You are evil. I hate you.

/not really. Beautiful and Jealous....

137 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:52:10pm
138 LieSeeker  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:53:27pm

He has a secret plan to win at the conference, but he won't explain it until he wins.

139 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:53:45pm

Evenin' folks!

140 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:53:49pm

This btw is a long established pattern for Robert Spencer. Anyone who says that moderate islam can exist, even those calling for it's reformation are attacked. Here he is five years ago going after Steven Schwartz.

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]

141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:54:15pm

re: #131 Ojoe

I find the word "gloaming" to be so wonderfully descriptive. One of my favorite "aaah" words.

142 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:55:19pm

re: #132 ShanghaiEd

Reine: Well, I got my laugh of the day. I saw the headline for the first item and thought, "Well, that's a medical condition I've never heard of before..." :)

I thought this was just one of the funniest understatements I've seen written lately:

Experts said he has an unusual attraction to inflatable exercise devices.

"unusual" attraction.
duh, ya think?

143 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:55:28pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I find the word "gloaming" to be so wonderfully descriptive. One of my favorite "aaah" words.

I always forget that word. It's a cool word.

144 BatGuano  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:56:14pm

re: #141 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I find the word "gloaming" to be so wonderfully descriptive. One of my favorite "aaah" words.

It's a "woody" word.

145 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:56:14pm

re: #133 ShanghaiEd

I have not read that correspondence but would like to.

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

O'connor touched some deep themes in her writing, as did Merton.

146 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:56:33pm

re: #134 Flyers1974

re: #139 srb1976

Hey, flyers! Howdy, srb!

Come on in, the gloaming's fine...

147 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:58:16pm

re: #136 CynicalConservative

You are evil. I hate you.

/not really. Beautiful and Jealous....

I'm still fascinated by the canals...2-300 yr old conservancies...if you live next to a canal you are golden, rich or poor...they are all public in terms of hiking or horseback riding....very different kind of city

148 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:58:27pm

re: #142 reine.de.tout

"unusual" attraction.
duh, ya think?

As opposed to the usual attraction, of course. :) Right.

149 Flyers1974  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:58:36pm

re: #146 ShanghaiEd

re: #139 srb1976

Hey, flyers! Howdy, srb!

Come on in, the gloaming's fine...

I'll have to google it.

150 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #137 jcm

Thank you for that, and I give you:

Sunsetting over the Olympic Mountains.

mighty rugged looking

151 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:00:10pm

Wow. Whataver #5 was, it got downdinged by avanti, Bloodnok, MandyManners, Pingjockey, and Walter L. Newton.
A Uniter at last!

152 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:00:43pm

re: #146 ShanghaiEd

re: #139 srb1976

Hey, flyers! Howdy, srb!

Come on in, the gloaming's fine...

And from what I've seen, the pictures are gorgeous = )

153 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:00:51pm

re: #135 albusteve

Nice photos!re: #143 Gus 802

In Italian gloaming is

crepuscolo

154 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:01:45pm

share your pictures...don't be shy

155 wiffersnapper  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:02:02pm

"Whoever denied it supplied it" seems to work well with these neo-fascists. So does "Secrets, secrets..."

156 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:02:42pm

re: #147 albusteve

I'm still fascinated by the canals...2-300 yr old conservancies...if you live next to a canal you are golden, rich or poor...they are all public in terms of hiking or horseback riding....very different kind of city

Albusteve - the last photo in that batch - it appears to me that those folks are using rocks or sand for their yards, instead of grass. Or is it just that the color is off?

157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:02:45pm

The first time I ever heard the word "gloaming" I knew precisely what it meant. Not because of context either. Just was a perfect word.

Sleep beckons me. Goodnight.

158 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:03:15pm

re: #135 albusteve
Just truly incredible. To think that my (very) distantly related Kit Carson once road into and through those mountains is just awe inspiring.
I'm not apt to be going anywhere much anymore, but I am so grateful that I did get the change to see the Rockies in Colorado (from Estes Village). I've never, ever felt quite so infinitesimal.

159 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:03:45pm

re: #140 Thanos

Steven Schwartz is, IIRC, a Sufi convert who dislikes the Wahabbies intensely ; yet Spencer attacks him anyway for spurious reasons. Thats prima facia evidence of mindless bigotry, IMO.

160 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:05:02pm

re: #156 reine.de.tout

Albusteve - the last photo in that batch - it appears to me that those folks are using rocks or sand for their yards, instead of grass. Or is it just that the color is off?

I don't know about any particular case, but we saw a lot of that when we lived in Vegas.....those lava rocks mostly....grass can be hard to keep pretty in the desert...

161 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:05:40pm

re: #156 reine.de.tout

Albusteve - the last photo in that batch - it appears to me that those folks are using rocks or sand for their yards, instead of grass. Or is it just that the color is off?

It's gravel. My daughter in Alamogordo has the same kind of yard.

162 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:05:47pm

re: #18 Gordon Marock

I have never been a frequent commenter, but want to state how important I think it is to stand up for reason despite the consequences, as Charles has done. It is critical that Islam combats and defeats a powerful internal element, radical Islam. Whatever you want to call it, some type of 'reformation' from within Islam is necessary to defeat this element. Similarly, ideas such as: a) the earth is 6,000 years old, b) Muslims worship the Devil, c) and that the US should be governed by 'Biblical Law,' are all ideas that were supposedly dealt with in 'reforming' Western Christianity. To win the 'war,' modernity must stand against superstition and tribal instinct. This is not, in any way, selling out to anything. So, my point is . . . . ., not sure. Anyway, Charles, keep it up.

If you don't mind me riffing and filling, I'd say your point is that religion, like a lot of things, only works voluntarily. There's an old quote to the effect that "your right to swing your fist expires at the tip of my nose".
Another example concerns the positive right of a homeowner to do what he wants in his own home, but not to fire shotgun blasts into the neighboring kitchens, and probably not to stand there drawing a bead on his neighbors either.

163 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:06:02pm

re: #150 albusteve

mighty rugged looking

Those the are the "little mountains" between Seattle and the Pacific. The real deal is the North Cascades.

164 BatGuano  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:07:31pm

re: #144 BatGuano

Like, caribou.

165 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:08:09pm

re: #156 reine.de.tout

Albusteve - the last photo in that batch - it appears to me that those folks are using rocks or sand for their yards, instead of grass. Or is it just that the color is off?

lots of people landscape with rocks and native, high desert plants...different colors and sizes of rocks...it is really attractive...OTOH there are neighborhoods with typical houses and small yards that look like they are in Indiana...traditional pueblo style houses and landscaping is really friggin cool...I never get used to it

166 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:09:00pm

re: #160 srb1976

re: #161 jaunte

Interesting.

In the Cayman Islands, the "traditional" yard is sand, neatly raked every morning.

I'm surrounded by so much green, it's interesting to see the colors of other places.

167 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:11:02pm

re: #166 reine.de.tout

Funny...the real clincher on our decision to move away from vegas was the color....
Once you get off the strip, it seems like everything is beige stucco, not a lot of green, then we came out here (Alabama) to visit family, it was nice to see painted houses and trees, wildflowers and stuff again...

168 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:12:27pm

re: #167 srb1976

I miss the fireflies since I've moved....

169 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:14:00pm

There's got to be some kind of law we can come up with here at LGF, akin to Godwin's Law, Moore's Law, etc.

New Law: all discussion of any current or long running subject, once succumbing to perpetual fallacy, cannot return to any sort of logical or factual base.

Shall we call it Spencer's Law?

/discuss

170 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:14:59pm

adobe architecture in NM is stunning...there is nothing anywhere like it...walled property, gates and porticos...indoor courtyards and fountains etc

171 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:15:25pm

re: #168 Fenway_Nation

I miss the fireflies since I've moved....

The little man has developed a pretty intense interest in fireflies lately....they're mostly safe, he hasn't learned that they're easier to catch if you slow down a bit, yet

172 BignJames  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:15:32pm

re: #169 BigPapa

There's got to be some kind of law we can come up with here at LGF, akin to Godwin's Law, Moore's Law, etc.

New Law: all discussion of any current or long running subject, once succumbing to perpetual fallacy, cannot return to any sort of logical or factual base.

Shall we call it Spencer's Law?


/discuss

I would......if I understood it.

173 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:15:37pm

re: #166 reine.de.tout
Hi reine! When I traveled from Tucson to Tombstone and then Bisbee, Arizona, I was struck by how almost surreal the landscape looked.
It looked like the outer "circle" of a volcano - and then, every few miles, against that bleak, reddish color would suddenly appear a patch of the most VIBRANT green you can imagine! These were the locations of small fresh water wells - they were, in fact, little oasis's in the desert.
The contrast was indeed a shock to see, every single time I'd see one!

174 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:15:43pm

'Israel plotted Ahmadinejad killing'

Israel planned to assassinate Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during the country's elections last month, Teheran's Intelligence Chief Gholam-Hossein Mohseni-Ejei claimed Friday.

World Mohseni-Ejei told the state-run Fars news Agency that Israel, collaborating with Iranian Mujahedeen opposition members, met in Egypt and France to plan Ahmadinejad's killing.

"The Zionist leadership met with members of the opposition near Sharm e-Sheikh in Egypt and also met with them in Paris in order to plan the assassination of Ahmadinejad," Mohseni-Ejei insisted.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to kill you.

/Hugo has the same affliction

175 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:17:24pm

re: #170 albusteve

adobe architecture in NM is stunning...there is nothing anywhere like it...walled property, gates and porticos...indoor courtyards and fountains etc

Iran everything is walled, the streets dry dusty shades of brown. Step into a courtyard and you'll be in a lush garden.

176 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:18:32pm

Burp.

Dinner was good.

No Hefewiezen, so I settled for a Spaten Octoberfest.

177 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:19:08pm

re: #174 Killian Bundy
From your link: "Israel planned to assassinate Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad during the country's elections last month, Teheran's Intelligence Chief Gholam-Hossein Mohseni-Ejei claimed Friday. "
Isn't saying "Teheran's Intelligence Chief" akin to saying "Islamic Scholar"?

178 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:20:00pm

Here in LA, we have all the lawns, that just suck up water, in a desert.
Such a waste.
I would like to have fireflies, though.......

179 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:20:42pm

re: #175 jcm
Hi jcm - why is that? If behind every wall, so to speak, is a lush garden, then apparently fresh water isn't in short supply.

180 BignJames  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:20:48pm

re: #176 Racer X

Burp.

Dinner was good.

No Hefewiezen, so I settled for a Spaten Octoberfest.


This years? Already?

181 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:21:36pm

re: #178 Floral Giraffe
Hey Floral Giraffe - have you ever seen the movie
"Chinatown"?

182 Kronocide  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:22:10pm

re: #172 BignJames

I would......if I understood it.

Godwin's Law
Moore's Law

Spencer's Law: once succumbed to a state of perpetual fallacy it becomes exponentially harder to return to reality every two years.

183 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:22:48pm

re: #181 realwest

Hi RW!
A loong time ago. LA's history is all about water rights. Still going on!

184 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:23:00pm

So Happy Chappaquiddick Day to those on the East Coast.

I have gathered with my family and friends here in Southern California as we wait for the countdown here. We are passing the time playing different games, like -

1) Air Bubble Gasp-a-thon - inebriated contestants jump in the pool with their clothes on and an overturned 5 gallon bucket. The contestant that can stay underwater longest (without choking on his own vomit) wins!

2) Pretend To Be An Environmentalist - Whichever guest can boats most about being green while condemning most loudly how ugly those damned wind turbines and solar panels are (and how they just can't fit in a Prius) wins!

3) Car Wash Catholic - Whomever can go to confession on Saturday with the biggest hangover and best tale to tell the priest wins!

4) Air Bubble Gasp-a-thon for Couples - bring a date and share a bucket. First one to drown-the-date and crawl out of the pool, hide for a day and then call the police wins!

185 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:23:15pm

re: #158 realwest

Just truly incredible. To think that my (very) distantly related Kit Carson once road into and through those mountains is just awe inspiring.
I'm not apt to be going anywhere much anymore, but I am so grateful that I did get the change to see the Rockies in Colorado (from Estes Village). I've never, ever felt quite so infinitesimal.

northern NM is sort of a dreamscape...the light and color is just astounding...no where like it anywhere else

186 Irenicum  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:24:11pm

Wow. Just read through the MJT thread, and loved the throwbacks. It's amazing how reality just sucks to those wedded to bat-shit racist fantacide (yes, I just invented a new term, thank you very much! It starts with fantasy and ends with genocide). I bought into and believed Spencer years ago. He "seemed" reasonable. Obviously not anymore. He's as crazy as those he's railing against. Not a good option. Thank you Charles! Keep it up!

187 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:24:27pm

re: #180 BignJames

This years? Already?

Heh, no. Been in the fridge a while.

188 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:25:07pm

re: #179 realwest

Hi jcm - why is that? If behind every wall, so to speak, is a lush garden, then apparently fresh water isn't in short supply.

The cities no, the village have qanats. Horizontal wells. The gardens are watered carefully and efficiently, many homes open only onto the garden, cooling, filtering dust. It's really amazing.

189 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:25:53pm

re: #173 realwest

Hi reine! When I traveled from Tucson to Tombstone and then Bisbee, Arizona, I was struck by how almost surreal the landscape looked.
It looked like the outer "circle" of a volcano - and then, every few miles, against that bleak, reddish color would suddenly appear a patch of the most VIBRANT green you can imagine! These were the locations of small fresh water wells - they were, in fact, little oasis's in the desert.
The contrast was indeed a shock to see, every single time I'd see one!

I took the kids to that very area last summer in monsoon season. It was great because the temps would drop 20 degrees when the monsoons would come through. How long ago did you go? We saw the Karchner Caverns and they were very cool. But they weren't open to the public 10 or so years ago.

190 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:26:26pm

re: #175 jcm

Iran everything is walled, the streets dry dusty shades of brown. Step into a courtyard and you'll be in a lush garden.

yes, it's an ancient thing...you should see what you can have for 2m and up....awsome....people take water and move it through the house...small pools and waterfalls etc...like old Rome or whatever

191 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:27:07pm

re: #184 karmic_inquisitor

Mary Jo's rescue possible, life saving pocket described.

If Sir Swimmer had gone to the farm house and phone for help.........

192 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:28:44pm

re: #183 Floral Giraffe
Yeah, it's been a looong time for me too! But, believe it or not, the central thesis of the show was the factual account of how L.A. grew to become a huge city. Stolen water rights.
I used to use "Chinatown" as a reference in my classes to show my students how important and sometimes deadly the fight for water rights can be out West.
I stopped after only 3 semesters because when I mentioned "Chinatown" (which only won Oscars for Best Picture, Best Actor and Best Director among others) my students would give me that "blank stare" which meant they had no clue as to what I was referring but were too nice to say that!

193 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:28:50pm

re: #191 jcm

Mary Jo's rescue possible, life saving pocket described.

If Sir Swimmer had gone to the farm house and phone for help.........

yep...she slowly ran out of air, while he fucked around and hit the racks

194 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:29:42pm

re: #191 jcm

Reported by Jack Anderson, another blast from the past. The man had guts, taking on the Kennedy family.

195 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:29:53pm

Evening all!! Just a quick question for our lizard literary types.

Is there any possibility that Cormac McCarthy's novel "Blood Meridian" could ever possibly be made into a movie? It looks like Ridley Scott is gone, that William Monahan (writer of The Departed) is gone, and that Scott Rudin (producer) is scrambling.

The Coen brothers stepped up to "No Country for Old Men" and made a terrific film - right down to the perfect casting of Javier Bardem as Anton Chigurh.

Heck, I didn't think anyone could bring Chigurh to life, but Bardem did. Not sure if anyone, however, can bring Judge Holden to the screen.

Any thoughts guys?

196 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:30:29pm

re: #192 realwest

They're still fighting about the water rights in the San Joaquin Valley.
Hope you've had a nice day?

197 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:30:52pm

re: #193 albusteve

yep...she slowly ran out of air, while he fucked around and hit the racks

Terrifying. A couple of weeks ago I had a nightmare in which I was in the cockpit and suddenly we hit water and started submerging rapidly. It was so realistic I had to wake up fast. By then I couldn't stop thinking about being trapped in a space like that going under water.

198 Pygmalienation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:31:28pm

Spencer, and company would do well to remember the words of Shakespeare:

Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot that it do singe yourself.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:32:04pm

re: #92 MrPaulRevere

If anyone wants to read a serious tutorial on radical Islam I suggest "Militant Islam reaches America" by Daniel Pipes. Mr. Pipes is a genuine scholar. And while he offers a tough minded sober analysis, he is no bigot. I'm reading it for the third or fourth time as its one of those books that seems more insightful every time you read it. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

Also, please note the 'radical', there. Spencer's problem, AFAICT, is that he seems to be thoroughly convinced that all Islam issues from one fanatical and conniving source, controlled by the Elders of Zion, oops, Mecca. This seems to make it hard for him to acknowledge that any valid form of Islam that's not batshitcrazy exists.

200 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:32:09pm

re: #188 jcm
Thanks jcm! I'd never heard of that before; very educational and interesting to say the least.
Thanks!

201 BignJames  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:32:12pm

re: #195 subsailor68


Call it.

202 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:32:41pm

re: #192 realwest

"The Milagro Beanfield War" had a similar water-driven theme, set in New Mexico.

203 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:33:38pm

re: #190 albusteve

yes, it's an ancient thing...you should see what you can have for 2m and up....awsome....people take water and move it through the house...small pools and waterfalls etc...like old Rome or whatever

Ali Qupo in Isfahan, has a forth story veranda with a pool. A archimedes screw lift water to the a roof pool, and the pool on the veranda had a fountain. The king would sit up there and watch polo in the square. Built in the 1500's.

204 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:33:51pm

Charles, did you see how CAIR cited LGF in their press release why Spencer should not be invited to the American Library Association discussion about stereotypes regarding Islam. CAIR-Chicago asks library group to drop Islamophobe from panel.

The blog "Little Green Footballs" (LGF) notes that Spencer was listed as a speaker at a European conference in May "organized by a group called 'Pro Koln' -- a successor to the notorious fascist group 'Deutsche Liga fur Volk und Heimat' (the 'German League for People and Homeland')."

LGF goes on to note that the Pro Koln group "is under observation by the German inland secret service... One of the main organizers of 'Pro Koln' is Manfred Rouhs. Here are two photos of Rous with hardcore neo-Nazi activist Axel Reitz, who the local media call 'the Hitler of Cologne.'"

But for the CAIRbots who might get a cognitive dissonance attack from that part of the press release, they follow it up with a cursory slam against LGF referring to it as Islamophobic in the very next paragraph.

Interesting no?

205 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:33:58pm

re: #197 Gus 802

Terrifying. A couple of weeks ago I had a nightmare in which I was in the cockpit and suddenly we hit water and started submerging rapidly. It was so realistic I had to wake up fast. By then I couldn't stop thinking about being trapped in a space like that going under water.

yup...there were a couple of inches of air at the roof...she used it all up and died...while he connived his story....and there he sits, the grand old man of the Senate...spit

206 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:33:59pm

re: #197 Gus 802

I've had a few of those, scary indeed, I have noticed as I get older, I don't fight as hard to get to the surface.

207 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:34:05pm

re: #189 karmic_inquisitor
Huh. Well we went in September - avoiding the dreaded "Heat" of the summer! Hah!
But I never knew that that part of Arizona has a "monsoon" season - when is it, do you recall?

208 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:34:07pm

re: #201 BignJames

Call it.

LOL!! Hi BignJames! Love it. That scene in the book was terrific. On screen it was just as good!!

209 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:34:52pm

re: #194 MrPaulRevere

Reported by Jack Anderson, another blast from the past. The man had guts, taking on the Kennedy family.

And the dipsticks in Congress what to pass the Health Care bill to honor Sir Swimmer. Health Care Mary Jo style, slowly running out of air.

210 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:35:31pm

re: #193 albusteve

yep...she slowly ran out of air, while he fucked around and hit the racks

Back when I was a liberal Democrat I use to just turn off anyone who brought up Chappaquiddick. I did so out of ignorance and faith - ignorance of what actually happened and faith that the Kennedy Family were honorable people that just would behave in the way that the Chappaquiddick stories alleged.

Later in life after I had left the left I still didn't pay much attention to the allegations figuring that they had a dimension of political slime.

Then I read about the air pocket.

It made me sick. There really wasn't a slime dimension except in the character of Kennedy himself and it extended to the clan that protected him.

How people can hear Ted Kennedy unleash one of his speeches about the shame we should all feel about [fill in here] and not see him as a complete fraud is beyond me.

211 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:35:45pm

Affectionately known as cereal box head.

212 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:36:10pm

re: #206 Tarkus289

I've had a few of those, scary indeed, I have noticed as I get older, I don't fight as hard to get to the surface.

I think that's what you would have to do if there wasn't an alternative.

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:36:56pm

re: #178 Floral Giraffe

Here in LA, we have all the lawns, that just suck up water, in a desert.
Such a waste.
I would like to have fireflies, though.......

Xeriscaping became popular here in the Bay Area during the drought years, and you still see some lovely gardens with native plants and cacti and such. Butterflies and birds seem to appreciate them.

214 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:37:23pm

re: #203 jcm

Ali Qupo in Isfahan, has a forth story veranda with a pool. A archimedes screw lift water to the a roof pool, and the pool on the veranda had a fountain. The king would sit up there and watch polo in the square. Built in the 1500's.

I wish I could find some pics of sprawling pueblo homes down here...2 miles west of me, near the Rio Grande, are some of the wealthiest people in the entire southwest....eye poppin...lots of horses

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:38:10pm

re: #183 Floral Giraffe

Hi RW!
A loong time ago. LA's history is all about water rights. Still going on!

Oh boy, yeah.

216 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:38:12pm

re: #190 albusteve

yes, it's an ancient thing...you should see what you can have for 2m and up....awsome....people take water and move it through the house...small pools and waterfalls etc...like old Rome or whatever

Steve, don't know if you like plans and records of old building but here's one:

House, State Highway 91, 10 miles South of Santa Rosa, Puerto De Luna, Guadalupe County, NM

Library of Congress drawing. They have a lot more over there.

217 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:40:32pm

re: #194 MrPaulRevere
Jack Anderson - there's a blast from the past! Did you know that he won the 1972 Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting and that Anderson was the target of an aborted assassination plot in the White House. Two Nixon administration conspirators admitted under oath they plotted to poison Anderson on orders from White House aide Jeb Magruder?[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

218 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:41:05pm

re: #210 karmic_inquisitor

Back when I was a liberal Democrat I use to just turn off anyone who brought up Chappaquiddick. I did so out of ignorance and faith - ignorance of what actually happened and faith that the Kennedy Family were honorable people that just would behave in the way that the Chappaquiddick stories alleged.

Later in life after I had left the left I still didn't pay much attention to the allegations figuring that they had a dimension of political slime.

Then I read about the air pocket.

It made me sick. There really wasn't a slime dimension except in the character of Kennedy himself and it extended to the clan that protected him.

How people can hear Ted Kennedy unleash one of his speeches about the shame we should all feel about [fill in here] and not see him as a complete fraud is beyond me.

despicable, the whole lot of them...American nobility...half of them should be in prison...JFK got his PT boat crew killed and won a medal for it...filthy bunch the Kennedys

219 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:41:52pm

re: #195 subsailor68
Hi ya sub! I'm sorry, but I've never heard of a book entitled "Blood Meridian".

220 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:42:15pm

re: #207 realwest

Huh. Well we went in September - avoiding the dreaded "Heat" of the summer! Hah!
But I never knew that that part of Arizona has a "monsoon" season - when is it, do you recall?

Arizona Monsoon:

The Arizona Monsoon is a well-defined meteorological event (technically called a meteorological 'singularity') that occurs during the summer throughout the southwest portion of North America. During the winter time, the primary wind flow in Arizona is from the west or northwest—from California and Nevada. As we move into the summer, the winds shift to a southerly or southeasterly direction. Moisture streams northward from the Pacific Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico. This shift produces a radical change in moisture conditions statewide.
[Link: geoplan.asu.edu...]
221 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:42:24pm

re: #207 realwest

Huh. Well we went in September - avoiding the dreaded "Heat" of the summer! Hah!
But I never knew that that part of Arizona has a "monsoon" season - when is it, do you recall?

July / August.

You get downpours in the afternoons and evenings.

And with the wide open vistas you can see it raining in one area and sunny in another - you just see the rain clouds just slowly march over the landscape with a slanted trail of dark rain behind it.

Causes quite a bit of flash flooding, which can seem odd to visitors - that there would be flash floods in a desert. But the water will pool and accumulate in the wadis and seep into the ground, creating the water pockets that feed those green spots.

Here is a video clip of a river in Tucson that is dry most of the year but runs in monsson season -

222 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:42:30pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

Absolutely correct. With Spencer and Geller its always 'Islam does this and Islam did that'. Not only is that simplistic tripe, it discourages people from investigating radical Islam and understanding the difference between it and what Daniel Pipes refers to as normative Islam.

223 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:43:22pm

re: #196 Floral Giraffe
Really? I mean fighting how - politically or with some sort of weapons (don't forget that the County Water Commisoner in L.A. was murdered - another little factoid brough to you by Chinatown!)?

224 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:43:42pm

re: #216 Gus 802

Steve, don't know if you like plans and records of old building but here's one:

House, State Highway 91, 10 miles South of Santa Rosa, Puerto De Luna, Guadalupe County, NM

Library of Congress drawing. They have a lot more over there.

cool, I booked it and will check it out closer...some of the most beautiful architecture and design here in ABQ...

225 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:43:43pm

re: #195 subsailor68

Evening all!! Just a quick question for our lizard literary types.

Is there any possibility that Cormac McCarthy's novel "Blood Meridian" could ever possibly be made into a movie? It looks like Ridley Scott is gone, that William Monahan (writer of The Departed) is gone, and that Scott Rudin (producer) is scrambling.

The Coen brothers stepped up to "No Country for Old Men" and made a terrific film - right down to the perfect casting of Javier Bardem as Anton Chigurh.

Heck, I didn't think anyone could bring Chigurh to life, but Bardem did. Not sure if anyone, however, can bring Judge Holden to the screen.

Any thoughts guys?

sub, I think the character of Judge Holden and Blood Meridian in general are challenges to actors and filmmakers that may well be insurmountable. But I also felt the same way about No Country, and the Coens proved me wrong. So I'm minimally hopeful.

I think the biggest obstacle is Blood Meridian's over-the-top, all-encompassing violence, that makes Chigurh's spree look small-time. In McCarthy's world, the actual scope of that violence is somehow cleansing and inspiring in a perverse way, if that make sense. But I can't imagine achieving the same effect on screen.

Although, the Judge's dance at the very end of the book has been on continuous-run loop in the back of my mind ever since I read the book. One of the most complex characters I've ever come across, and certainly an actor's dream. Or nightmare.

But enough of my rambling. What do you think?

226 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:43:59pm

re: #218 albusteve

despicable, the whole lot of them...American nobility...half of them should be in prison...JFK got his PT boat crew killed and won a medal for it...filthy bunch the Kennedys

And to think old Joe was trying to really set us up for a dynasty, Joe Jr, John F., Robbert F. and Teddey he wanted 32 years of a Kennedy in the White House, bought and paid for with boot legging money.

Interesting alternate history line of thought, RMN challenged the Chicago vote that gave Kennedy the '60 election.

227 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:44:36pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, please note the 'radical', there. Spencer's problem, AFAICT, is that he seems to be thoroughly convinced that all Islam issues from one fanatical and conniving source, controlled by the Elders of Zion, oops, Mecca. This seems to make it hard for him to acknowledge that any valid form of Islam that's not batshitcrazy exists.


Nail, meet hammer. You are precisely correct!

228 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:45:59pm

re: #224 albusteve

cool, I booked it and will check it out closer...some of the most beautiful architecture and design here in ABQ...

Great, there more here which is a search for "adobe nm."

The icons are all the same but if you try anyone of them or look at the text it'll bring up different houses.

229 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:46:30pm

re: #202 jaunte
Ah, ya know my friend, I never saw that movie - was always intending to go see it but something always intervened.
Was it an accurate representation of the value of water rights and the sometimes incredible lengths to which people will go to over it?

230 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:47:20pm

She's my sister ......

231 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:47:47pm

re: #222 MrPaulRevere

Absolutely correct. With Spencer and Geller its always 'Islam does this and Islam did that'. Not only is that simplistic tripe, it discourages people from investigating radical Islam and understanding the difference between it and what Daniel Pipes refers to as normative Islam.

Inoculations are made from weakened strains of a disease. If Spencer and Gellar really want to eradicate the disease of radical Islam they should think about that.

232 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:47:47pm

re: #219 realwest

Hi ya sub! I'm sorry, but I've never heard of a book entitled "Blood Meridian".

Hi RW!!! Hope you're feeling great tonight! Not a biggie, believe me. Cormac McCarthy hit it big with "All the Pretty Horses" (Billy Bob Thornton directed the film version), which is part of a trilogy. That novel, plus "The Crossing" and "Cities of the Plain" became "The Border Trilogy".

"Blood Meridian" is an earlier novel - and it's incredibly brilliant - but incredibly gruesome.

If you've got some time, McCarthy's well worth a read! The first section of "The Crossing" - about a young boy and a wolf - is similar to Faulkner's "The Bear."

233 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:47:51pm

re: #226 jcm

And to think old Joe was trying to really set us up for a dynasty, Joe Jr, John F., Robbert F. and Teddey he wanted 32 years of a Kennedy in the White House, bought and paid for with boot legging money.

Interesting alternate history line of thought, RMN challenged the Chicago vote that gave Kennedy the '60 election.

he folded...I wonder why?...the Kennedys were supremely corrupt..old Rose was the only one with any principle and Joe tossed her under the bus

234 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:47:53pm

re: #217 realwest

RW, I remember when Jack Anderson was on TV frequently. I suddenly feel old.

235 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:48:30pm

re: #231 Mich-again

Nicely put.

236 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:48:40pm

re: #222 MrPaulRevere

Absolutely correct. With Spencer and Geller its always 'Islam does this and Islam did that'. Not only is that simplistic tripe, it discourages people from investigating radical Islam and understanding the difference between it and what Daniel Pipes refers to as normative Islam.

Spenser operates in binary world.

All people and ideas have one of two settings - good or bad.

That is what he relies on to defend himself "Tell me where I have stated explicit support of white fascism" - you can't" is the standard defense. So only if he is an absolutist is he guilty of being "bad".

Do you know what little he'd have to write about if he held Islam to the the same standard - let clerics off the hook unless they actually state explicitly and unambiguously the worst of the worst?

237 swamprat  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:49:37pm

re: #230 Tarkus289

She's my sister ......


238 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:49:50pm

re: #233 albusteve

he folded...I wonder why?...the Kennedys were supremely corrupt..old Rose was the only one with any principle and Joe tossed her under the bus

Joe Jr., I think it broke him, took a lot out of him, JFK was a surprise he was the slacker of the bunch.

239 jaunte  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:49:58pm

re: #229 realwest

Not a very good movie, in my opinion, but the book was very interesting in regards to the fight between the people who held traditional water rights in New Mexico vs. new investors trying to monopolize the resources.

240 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:50:24pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, please note the 'radical', there. Spencer's problem, AFAICT, is that he seems to be thoroughly convinced that all Islam issues from one fanatical and conniving source, controlled by the Elders of Zion, oops, Mecca. This seems to make it hard for him to acknowledge that any valid form of Islam that's not batshitcrazy exists.

Elders of Zion. They're sort of like the George Soros of Islam, right? :)

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:51:09pm

re: #222 MrPaulRevere

Absolutely correct. With Spencer and Geller its always 'Islam does this and Islam did that'. Not only is that simplistic tripe, it discourages people from investigating radical Islam and understanding the difference between it and what Daniel Pipes refers to as normative Islam.

I once read a rather interesting piece of Spencer's about an article written by a Muslim woman academic, from some US college or other. She wrote a piece that essentially said that although she herself covers her hair for social and traditional reasons, she doesn't believe it's mandatory in Islam. Spencer basically argued that it is mandatory, and she was wrong, which struck me as very odd. How can a scholar who is not himself a Muslim take sides in a theological debate? It's like me getting a PhD in Christian theology and then deciding to write about what is and is not real Southern Baptist behavior.

But looking at what he wrote, I realized that the idea of Islam as internally divided or pluralistic, or developing in new directions, is threatening to his whole theory of Islam.

242 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:51:30pm
243 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:52:04pm

re: #204 Mich-again
Hi Mich! And that not only got in a gratuitious shot at LGF but of course they got it wrong: "The LGF blog, also known for its Islamophobic viewpoint, wrote of Spencer's site: "His website has descended into a true hate site at this point, dominated by extreme, bigoted commenters who regularly advocate genocide and mass murder of Muslims."[emphasis added realwest]
Um, no CAIR, LGF is noted for it's violent-jihadistphobia. Course you wouldn't know that since you've never met an Islamic terrorist you didn't like.

244 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:52:06pm

re: #228 Gus 802

Great, there more here which is a search for "adobe nm."

The icons are all the same but if you try anyone of them or look at the text it'll bring up different houses.

sometimes I just drive around my area and I'm dumbfounded, the coolness of it all....not high desert, but river bottom...tons of water just near the surface...huge old trees and lush growth...plantage and greenery abound...pastures, orchards and vinyards...people don't know about that part of it...you would shit if you saw what I'm talking about

245 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:52:22pm

re: #231 Mich-again

Inoculations are made from weakened strains of a disease. If Spencer and Gellar really want to eradicate the disease of radical Islam they should think about that.

Mich, I think you're onto something very profound, there. Could you elaborate, please?

246 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:53:16pm

re: #214 albusteve

I wish I could find some pics of sprawling pueblo homes down here...2 miles west of me, near the Rio Grande, are some of the wealthiest people in the entire southwest....eye poppin...lots of horses


Those folks are well hidden indeed--unless you ride horses along the Bosque.

247 BatGuano  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:53:23pm

Good night, all.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:53:57pm

re: #247 BatGuano

Good night, all.

Good night!

249 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:54:19pm

re: #225 ShanghaiEd

Hi ShanghaiEd!!! Oh, man:

Although, the Judge's dance at the very end of the book has been on continuous-run loop in the back of my mind ever since I read the book. One of the most complex characters I've ever come across, and certainly an actor's dream. Or nightmare.

You and me both! "Dream. Or Nightmare." is a perfect take!

I don't know. Part of me wonders about the ability to capture the violence of the novel. I'm not sure anyone can. But (okay, I'm old), I do remember buying a ticket to a little movie called "Soldier Blue" back in 1970, and walking out of the theater in shock.

As I say, I just don't know. Soldier Blue was an anti-war film, and probably doesn't hold up, but the violence isn't the issue (at least for me) with Blood Meridian - it's finding someone to communicate the complete and utter evil of Judge Holden.

250 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:54:19pm

re: #244 albusteve

sometimes I just drive around my area and I'm dumbfounded, the coolness of it all....not high desert, but river bottom...tons of water just near the surface...huge old trees and lush growth...plantage and greenery abound...pastures, orchards and vinyards...people don't know about that part of it...you would shit if you saw what I'm talking about

I can imagine. New Mexico is still rather prestine.

251 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:55:21pm

re: #206 Tarkus289

I've had a few of those, scary indeed, I have noticed as I get older, I don't fight as hard to get to the surface.


Well I have had some pretty fucking scary dreams -not necessarily fighting for air - but the older I get the harder I fight to either win or get awake!

252 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:55:25pm

re: #242 Racer X

Sorry about the mess.

I've hauled people out of place like that, invariably hey weigh so much it would take 6 of us to carry 'em out.

253 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:56:13pm

re: #242 Racer X

Sorry about the mess.

What the?!

254 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:56:25pm

re: #238 jcm

Joe Jr., I think it broke him, took a lot out of him, JFK was a surprise he was the slacker of the bunch.

I won't diss young Joe I guess...JFK was a lying, cheating asshole and Bobby carried his water for him...Bobby did seem to have a legit concern for the poor and oppressed...Big Joe probably considered him a sissy for it

255 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:56:51pm

re: #251 realwest

Keep fighting my friend.

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:57:18pm

re: #242 Racer X

Sorry about the mess.

I suddenly feel much better about the way my computer room looks.

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:58:01pm

OK, going to go do family things now. Night all.

258 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:58:46pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, going to go do family things now. Night all.

Goodnight, SFZ.

259 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:58:46pm

re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist

Imagine what the inhabitant(s) looked like.

260 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:58:54pm

re: #247 BatGuano

Good night, all.

Nite, Bat. Roost well.

261 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:58:58pm

re: #220 jaunte
Huh. Guess we were just lucky then! Thanks juante!
Geez, ya know hardly a day goes by when I don't learn something new - first jcm and now you! (actually there have no doubt been others today, but regrettfully the HD between my ears needs some cleaning out)!

262 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:59:04pm

re: #245 ShanghaiEd

Mich, I think you're onto something very profound, there. Could you elaborate, please?

To me, this is the same as the Reform idea, but phrased in a more sinister way.
You cannot get rid of militant Islam by beating it on the head. You get rid of militant Islam by de-militarizing it. This is a task for the practitioners of that faith itself. Our own task is to beat militant Islam on the head as necessary, but understanding that this is only a holding action.

263 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:59:04pm

re: #246 haakondahl

Those folks are well hidden indeed--unless you ride horses along the Bosque.

old money...all the way back to the Spanish land grants...any property in the Bosque is valuable, even if it's a trailer...it's all about the water

264 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:59:10pm

re: #254 albusteve

I won't diss young Joe I guess...JFK was a lying, cheating asshole and Bobby carried his water for him...Bobby did seem to have a legit concern for the poor and oppressed...Big Joe probably considered him a sissy for it

Joe Jr. was a hero, died doing very dangerous missions. IIRC against Joe Sr.'s orders. I think he was trying to cut his own path, but we'll never know. Bobby did was the most decent of the bunch.

265 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 9:59:49pm

re: #243 realwest

Hey RW. (posting from the Disney Resort in Orlando here)

CAIR is the official mouthpiece for all forms of Islam. They have no credibility as moderates. I thought it was odd how they cited LGF as a source to make their point, and then attacked LGF in the same press release. Its like a prosecuting attorney using Exhibit "A" as evidence and then proceeding to tell the jury that Exhibit "A" was BS.

Their little heads must have been close to exploding.

266 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:00:06pm

re: #259 Tarkus289

Imagine what the inhabitant(s) looked like.

My guess is that they would have a pallor and a slate blue-gray color.

267 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:00:13pm

re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, going to go do family things now. Night all.

Good night, SFZ. Happy weekend.

268 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:01:14pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

I like to think ahead, to 'game plan' the future if you will. I wonder what Spencer's game plan is. I suspect its drenched in blood.

269 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:02:45pm

re: #264 jcm

Joe Jr. was a hero, died doing very dangerous missions. IIRC against Joe Sr.'s orders. I think he was trying to cut his own path, but we'll never know. Bobby did was the most decent of the bunch.

it was a secret 'bounce bomb' mission somewhere I believe...a volunteer gig...easily googleable...I've forgotten but yes he was a hero in that regard

270 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:02:54pm

re: #223 realwest

I'll look for you later. Bouncing in & out tonight. Mom's home from the hospital with her pacemaker. She's sore & tired. But, it'll be more comfortable for her in a couple of weeks!

271 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:03:44pm

re: #226 jcm Um, well I haven't looked it up my friend, but JFK didn't get his PT Boat cut in half by a Japanese destroyer - it was war and bad luck that did it!
However, although Nixon was advised to challenge JFK's victory in Illinois (which in fact did give JFK the presidency) I was around for that election, and (barely!) an adult and my recollection was that Nixon refused to challenge those votes lest Americans lose faith in the electoral process. Y'all listening there Mr. Gore?!

272 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:10pm

I think I have come up with a word for a Spencer-like scornful and accusatory comment left on a blog that the writer of the comment has previously smeared on his own blog - Cyberphlegm.

273 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:13pm

re: #245 ShanghaiEd

Mich, I think you're onto something very profound, there. Could you elaborate, please?

Spencer's binary logic says all forms of Islam are equally dangerous and evil. Applied to medicine, it would be like saying vaccinations are just as bad as the full-blown disease.

274 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:05:22pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

I once read a rather interesting piece of Spencer's about an article written by a Muslim woman academic, from some US college or other. She wrote a piece that essentially said that although she herself covers her hair for social and traditional reasons, she doesn't believe it's mandatory in Islam. Spencer basically argued that it is mandatory, and she was wrong, which struck me as very odd. How can a scholar who is not himself a Muslim take sides in a theological debate? It's like me getting a PhD in Christian theology and then deciding to write about what is and is not real Southern Baptist behavior.

But looking at what he wrote, I realized that the idea of Islam as internally divided or pluralistic, or developing in new directions, is threatening to his whole theory of Islam.

I'd have to take half-credit on this one. It may not be mandatory as in Allah said so, but mandatory as in "wear it or I smash your fingers". The violent Islamists have such a grip on the rest that we can only see the most stalwart of the "normative" Muslims. I do believe that it's getting better, but I'd be hard pressed to back it up. In the last year, I recall seeing articles about Muslim groups going after CAIR, Friday sermons denouncing hate-mongers in their midst, and no doubt a couple of other things. Beats what we saw before that, which was crickets. Not that there was nothing good going on, but it never rose above background noise.
Anyway, I'm rambling. I'll stop.

275 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:16pm

Ramble on.

276 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:18pm

re: #269 albusteve

it was a secret 'bounce bomb' mission somewhere I believe...a volunteer gig...easily googleable...I've forgotten but yes he was a hero in that regard

It was a drone plane B-24 loaded with explosives,pilot and co-pilot, take off set it on its course and bailout. Premature detonation unknown cause.

277 swamprat  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:34pm

re: #271 realwest

Um, well I haven't looked it up my friend, but JFK didn't get his PT Boat cut in half by a Japanese destroyer - it was war and bad luck that did it!
However, although Nixon was advised to challenge JFK's victory in Illinois (which in fact did give JFK the presidency) I was around for that election, and (barely!) an adult and my recollection was that Nixon refused to challenge those votes lest Americans lose faith in the electoral process. Y'all listening there Mr. Gore?!

Gasp! He sacrificed political expediency for the common good?
How..
How old fashioned!

278 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:07:35pm

re: #273 Mich-again

Spencer's binary logic says all forms of Islam are equally dangerous and evil. Applied to medicine, it would be like saying vaccinations are just as bad as the full-blown disease.

And yet he cannot be associated with VB because (I suppose) he has yet to wear a "Yes - I am now officially a member of VB" tee shirt.

279 swamprat  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:12pm

re: #273 Mich-again

Spencer's binary logic says all forms of Islam are equally dangerous and evil. Applied to medicine, it would be like saying vaccinations are just as bad as the full-blown disease.

Uh, that road has been traveled.

280 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:15pm

DogMateOnline

Dog dating Web sites are on the rise in India, where pet ownership has boomed thanks to a growing number of wealthy and middleclass professionals. Just like human dating sites, dog owners can upload photos, blog, search for the perfect match and set up dates.

/next thing you know, a global radical Islamic jihadi recruiting organization, with proven ties to al Qaeda, will be holding a convention at a Hilton in a major U.S. city on Sunday

281 MrPaulRevere  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:08:43pm

re: #242 Racer X

Thanks for posting that. I'll click on it every time I get pissed about my own housekeeping.

282 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:10:03pm

re: #271 realwest

Um, well I haven't looked it up my friend, but JFK didn't get his PT Boat cut in half by a Japanese destroyer - it was war and bad luck that did it!
However, although Nixon was advised to challenge JFK's victory in Illinois (which in fact did give JFK the presidency) I was around for that election, and (barely!) an adult and my recollection was that Nixon refused to challenge those votes lest Americans lose faith in the electoral process. Y'all listening there Mr. Gore?!

Very true. it's worth remembering that the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) destroyer that rammed PT-109, the Amagiri, was a Fubuki-class DD, a type well suited to a surface night engagement. Her crew and captain were well trained and experienced. JFK lost, but he lost to A-list opposition. He committed no grievous blunder and did save the lives of his crew in the aftermath.

283 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:10:50pm

re: #271 realwest

Um, well I haven't looked it up my friend, but JFK didn't get his PT Boat cut in half by a Japanese destroyer - it was war and bad luck that did it!
However, although Nixon was advised to challenge JFK's victory in Illinois (which in fact did give JFK the presidency) I was around for that election, and (barely!) an adult and my recollection was that Nixon refused to challenge those votes lest Americans lose faith in the electoral process. Y'all listening there Mr. Gore?!

Agreed on Nixon v. Kennedy.

It was albusteve talking about JFK and PT-109.

Just a gedanken experiment, "what if" Nixon had challenged and won?
No Kennedy assassination, what about 'Nam, Watergate etc....

284 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:11:07pm

re: #234 MrPaulRevere

RW, I remember when Jack Anderson was on TV frequently. I suddenly feel old.


Welcome to my world!

285 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:11:09pm
286 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:11:22pm

re: #280 Killian Bundy

DogMateOnline

/next thing you know, a global radical Islamic jihadi recruiting organization, with proven ties to al Qaeda, will be holding a convention at a Hilton in a major U.S. city on Sunday

What's worse is that it's near my city. I don't think I'll ever stay in a Hilton again, and I will so advise my parents as well.

287 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:11:48pm

re: #255 Tarkus289

Keep fighting my friend.


Always. Don't know any other way.
Thank you.

288 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:12:21pm

re: #271 realwest

Um, well I haven't looked it up my friend, but JFK didn't get his PT Boat cut in half by a Japanese destroyer - it was war and bad luck that did it!
However, although Nixon was advised to challenge JFK's victory in Illinois (which in fact did give JFK the presidency) I was around for that election, and (barely!) an adult and my recollection was that Nixon refused to challenge those votes lest Americans lose faith in the electoral process. Y'all listening there Mr. Gore?!

right...he was dead in the water and drifting...his crew was asleep, all against orders...how in the world could you not evade a goddamned destroyer bearing down on you?...speculation maybe but it does not add up...JFK was suppossed to be trolling waiting for that very thing, all heroics aside after the fact...the Navy was going to try him until Joe stepped in

289 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:13:33pm

re: #287 realwest

Howdy there Real.

290 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:14:29pm

re: #284 realwest

What are you doing up at this hour young man?!

291 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:14:42pm

re: #270 Floral Giraffe
Whew, glad to hear your Mom's ok! I really didn't want to ask and thought maybe an e-mail but I'm glad you said that!
God bless her, and prayers going up for her and for you!

292 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:08pm

re: #285 Racer X

Ten Things You Didn't Know About the Apollo 11 Moon Landing

I knew 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 10.

Yes, I'm a geek.

293 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:15:44pm

re: #276 jcm

It was a drone plane B-24 loaded with explosives,pilot and co-pilot, take off set it on its course and bailout. Premature detonation unknown cause.

yep...I recall some of it now...just lazy

294 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:16:01pm

re: #288 albusteve

right...he was dead in the water and drifting...his crew was asleep, all against orders...how in the world could you not evade a goddamned destroyer bearing down on you?...speculation maybe but it does not add up...JFK was suppossed to be trolling waiting for that very thing, all heroics aside after the fact...the Navy was going to try him until Joe stepped in

I read the book PT-109, and it sounded like the concept for McHale's Navy - distilling torpedo juice to make it drinkable, and a lot of other things.
But it probably wasn't the only boat like that.

295 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:08pm

re: #292 jcm

I knew 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 10.

Yes, I'm a geek.

Did you know they broke the circuit breaker for the ascent engine, and had to use parts of a space pen to enable the engine? Otherwise, they would have been stuck on the Moon.

296 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:36pm

re: #242 Racer X

Sorry about the mess.

I think I'll quit bitching about The Kid's forgetting to hang up a towel or flush the toilet.

297 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:53pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

maybe, maybe not

298 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:53pm

re: #277 swamprat
Yep. And it was the same "I am not a crook" Nixon at that!
I very distinctly recall Walter Cronkite (RIP) saying that on the Evening News. Nixon refused for the good of the country.

299 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:17:59pm

re: #249 subsailor68

Hi ShanghaiEd!!! Oh, man:

Although, the Judge's dance at the very end of the book has been on continuous-run loop in the back of my mind ever since I read the book. One of the most complex characters I've ever come across, and certainly an actor's dream. Or nightmare.

You and me both! "Dream. Or Nightmare." is a perfect take!

I don't know. Part of me wonders about the ability to capture the violence of the novel. I'm not sure anyone can. But (okay, I'm old), I do remember buying a ticket to a little movie called "Soldier Blue" back in 1970, and walking out of the theater in shock.

As I say, I just don't know. Soldier Blue was an anti-war film, and probably doesn't hold up, but the violence isn't the issue (at least for me) with Blood Meridian - it's finding someone to communicate the complete and utter evil of Judge Holden.

Y'know, I hadn't thought of it that way, but I believe you're right. If Judge Holden could be sufficiently brought to "life," the violence aspect would take care of itself because he would be its...context? Ringmaster? God?

Jeez, what a book! I'm headed to read that last paragraph, and see if it's how I remember it.

I was fortunate to become a McCarthy fanatic very early, i.e. with The Orchard Keeper and Outer Dark and Child of God. One of my reading acquaintances was afraid I was having a mental problem: "There's this beautiful necrophilia scene, see, and then..." :)

300 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:18:00pm

re: #288 albusteve
Have you ever been out to sea at night with no moon? Darker than hell and ships going through the water are very quiet. Even if everyone had been awake it is hard to see a blacked out ship at night. Hell even an aircraft carrier is hard to see if all the lights are out. If you have a night with no moon and cloud cover it is black!

301 Racer X  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:18:06pm

re: #292 jcm

I knew 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 10.

Yes, I'm a geek.

OK, 3 things you didn't know then.

;-)

302 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:19:27pm

re: #293 albusteve

yep...I recall some of it now...just lazy

Most of it was in the memory cells (I'm such a geek). I've been reading aviation history and biography's since the 3rd grade. I read Rickenbacker's, Richthofen's, and Bader's bio's in the 3rd grade. 4th grade was a Saint-Exupéry year.

303 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:19:35pm

Hey Night Lizards! It was fairly nice today in Near Iowa, until the rain.

Someboday famous died today.

Oh, I got an email update from twitter and found out that I joined some time ago. I assume when Charles posted that LGF was now on Twitter. I assume this because the only "person" I am "following" on Twitter is LGF.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

304 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:08pm

re: #285 Racer X

Ten Things You Didn't Know About the Apollo 11 Moon Landing

Where is the part about it all being on a soundstage in Burbank?

/

305 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:18pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon
" He committed no grievous blunder and did save the lives of his crew in the aftermath."Just thought that deserved repeating.

306 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:22pm

re: #295 Kosh's Shadow

Did you know they broke the circuit breaker for the ascent engine, and had to use parts of a space pen to enable the engine? Otherwise, they would have been stuck on the Moon.

I'd forgotten that one, but now that you mention it, it makes a connection.

307 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:29pm

re: #292 jcm
Are you a puddle of goo from the heat over there? It was 103 here today.

308 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:42pm

re: #296 MandyManners

I think I'll quit bitching about The Kid's forgetting to hang up a towel or flush the toilet.

Why didn't the owner ever finish a cigarette?

309 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:20:49pm

re: #304 karmic_inquisitor

Where is the part about it all being on a soundstage in Burbank?

/

SHHHHHHHHH!

yeesh some people just can't keep secrets.

/////

310 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:21:47pm

re: #300 pingjockey

Have you ever been out to sea at night with no moon? Darker than hell and ships going through the water are very quiet. Even if everyone had been awake it is hard to see a blacked out ship at night. Hell even an aircraft carrier is hard to see if all the lights are out. If you have a night with no moon and cloud cover it is black!

I admit there is speculation that is forever lost...and yes, pitch black on the open, flat water is freaky....driving along at 45mph and you cannot tel if you are even moving...I've done that a few times...I don't like the Kennedys but I'll back off

311 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:21:53pm

re: #283 jcm
"No Kennedy assassination, what about 'Nam, Watergate etc...."
Can't really even start on that one my good friend. I'm way too tired now!

312 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:21:58pm

re: #299 ShanghaiEd

Y'know, I hadn't thought of it that way, but I believe you're right. If Judge Holden could be sufficiently brought to "life," the violence aspect would take care of itself because he would be its...context? Ringmaster? God?

Jeez, what a book! I'm headed to read that last paragraph, and see if it's how I remember it.

I was fortunate to become a McCarthy fanatic very early, i.e. with The Orchard Keeper and Outer Dark and Child of God. One of my reading acquaintances was afraid I was having a mental problem: "There's this beautiful necrophilia scene, see, and then..." :)

Oh, my friend, that last paragraph will be just as you remember it!! And those other two books - just beautiful.

And then there's always Suttree, which to me was just a recapture of Huckleberry Finn - if he'd been a wee bit older, and more cynical!

;-)

313 jvic  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:22:18pm

re: #217 realwest

Jack Anderson - there's a blast from the past! Did you know that he won the 1972 Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting and that Anderson was the target of an aborted assassination plot in the White House. Two Nixon administration conspirators admitted under oath they plotted to poison Anderson on orders from White House aide Jeb Magruder?[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

realwest, that's a gripping statement, especially coming from a senior attorney like yourself.

I followed the links in your Wikipedia links and the only thing I found was a reference to Liddy's book. I couldn't find a link or citation to the testimony under oath. Apologies if I searched carelessly but, given the seriousness of the matter, could you or another Lizard help me out? Or, given the "?" at the end of your sentence, are you unsure whether such testimony was given? (It's Wikipedia, after all...)

314 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:22:45pm

re: #242 Racer X

Sorry about the mess.

What, is everybody in there dead? Shit!

315 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:22:46pm

re: #307 pingjockey

Are you a puddle of goo from the heat over there? It was 103 here today.

89° at SeaTac, 76° now. House was pretty warm when I got home, comfortable now.

Goo, good word for it.

316 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:22:53pm

The "One small step" phrase is technically incorrect, it should have been One small step for "A" man, because in this case "man" and "mankind" are the same.

317 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:23:13pm

re: #302 jcm

Most of it was in the memory cells (I'm such a geek). I've been reading aviation history and biography's since the 3rd grade. I read Rickenbacker's, Richthofen's, and Bader's bio's in the 3rd grade. 4th grade was a Saint-Exupéry year.

cool...I got the Wright Bros down!

318 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:23:58pm

re: #305 realwest

" He committed no grievous blunder and did save the lives of his crew in the aftermath."Just thought that deserved repeating.

money talks

319 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:24:09pm

re: #311 realwest

"No Kennedy assassination, what about 'Nam, Watergate etc...."
Can't really even start on that one my good friend. I'm way too tired now!

LOL! Me too.....

Finishing off a Dogfish 90 Minute IPA, enjoying the FNDT. Nothing serious, just sitting around shooting the bull.

320 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:24:12pm

Goodnight lizards. The thunderstorms have moved off and I can take the dogs out without having to dry them afterwards.

321 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:24:54pm

re: #289 legalpad
Howdy back atcha my friend - how are you this evening morning?!

322 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:24:55pm

re: #320 Kosh's Shadow

Goodnight lizards. The thunderstorms have moved off and I can take the dogs out without having to dry them afterwards.

My wife's dogs are scared of thunder.

323 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:25:22pm

re: #195 subsailor68

Found it! Lord have mercy, it holds up well...

The Last Paragraph of Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian

And they are dancing, the board floor slamming under the jackboots and the fiddlers grinning hideously over their canted pieces. Towering over them all is the judge and he is naked dancing, his small feet lively and quick and now in doubletime and bowing to the ladies, huge and pale and hairless, like an enormous infant. He never sleeps, he says. He says he'll never die. He bows to the fiddlers and sashays backwards and throws back his head and laughs deep in his throat and he is a great favorite, the judge. He wafts his hat and the lunar dome of his skull passes palely under the lamps and he swings about and takes possession of one of the fiddles and he pirouettes and makes a pass, two passes, dancing and fiddling all at once. His feet are light and nimble. He never sleeps. He says that he will never die. He dances in light and in shadow and he is a great favorite. He never sleeps, the judge. He is dancing, dancing. He says that he will never die.

***
And he never will.

324 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:26:09pm

re: #321 realwest

Howdy back atcha my friend - how are you this evening morning?!

It is late! Doing fine here.

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:26:38pm

re: #320 Kosh's Shadow

Goodnight lizards. The thunderstorms have moved off and I can take the dogs out without having to dry them afterwards.

AND that is no small thing to a dog owner!

326 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:26:39pm

re: #290 pingjockey
HEY PING! I could ask you the same thing, but it would be silly cause it's still early evening out your way!
And ya know I checked for you too and you gave us a "later" about 2 hours or so ago!
Didja get my e-mail today?

327 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:27:45pm

re: #323 ShanghaiEd

I've never read the book, but that paragraph gave me goosebumps....

328 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:27:55pm

re: #316 Tarkus289

The "One small step" phrase is technically incorrect, it should have been One small step for "A" man, because in this case "man" and "mankind" are the same.

HI Tarkus!! While you're absolutely correct, we should probably be grateful that this happened before political correctness set in:

"That's one small step for a person; one giant leap for personkind."

329 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:28:07pm

There are things that went on in regard to that conference that are not going to be made public ... yeah, that's the ticket.

330 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:29:52pm

re: #302 jcm

Most of it was in the memory cells (I'm such a geek). I've been reading aviation history and biography's since the 3rd grade. I read Rickenbacker's, Richthofen's, and Bader's bio's in the 3rd grade. 4th grade was a Saint-Exupéry year.

I'm in the same boat. Read an article on the discovery of the wreck of the Bismarck in a National Geographic (November, 1989, twenty years ago this year), developed an interest in the battle that sank her, and I've been a history buff ever since. LGF is one of very few places where I can talk with like-minded people.

331 legalpad  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:31:31pm

Oh great! My wife is supposed to feed her daughter's dogs and she forgot and it's 12:30AM here. Gotta go with her. It's way the hell off.

332 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:31:38pm

re: #326 realwest
I got one today, but be darned if I can remember if it was your latest!
I will check in the am! Heh, it's 10:30 here and even with cable, tv is a vast wasteland of CRAP!

333 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:32:27pm

re: #296 MandyManners

I think I'll quit bitching about The Kid's forgetting to hang up a towel or flush the toilet.

How do you think that sort of thing starts?

334 Tarkus289  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:32:56pm

re: #328 subsailor68

We are grateful.

335 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:33:06pm

Just been in the Links. WTF with Kindle?

That can't be good for sales. Guess the paper publishers won't be going out of business anytime soon.

336 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:33:27pm

re: #313 jvic No there was testimony given - I think the question mark was by wiki as to whether or not it was Jeb Magruder - but I'd guess if you wanted to google Jack Anderson or Magruder you'd come up with something. Or you could google wiki's footnote for that: Feldstein, Mark. "The Last Muckraker", The Washington Post, July 28, 2004

337 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:33:41pm

re: #330 Dark_Falcon

I'm in the same boat. Read an article on the discovery of the wreck of the Bismarck in a National Geographic (November, 1989, twenty years ago this year), developed an interest in the battle that sank her, and I've been a history buff ever since. LGF is one of very few places where I can talk with like-minded people.

Gets to be an obsession doesn't it. Read a good book, they you start through the that books bibliography, and pretty soon............

338 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:09pm

re: #310 albusteve
Oh it's ok. I have PT109 in my library and this is the first I'd heard that the crew was asleep. They were supposed to be out hunting barges. That's how the Japanese were supplying some of the bypassed islands. Barges at night. PT boats were good barge killers.

339 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:34:19pm

Uh oh. Chavez News Network isn't very happy Obama's approval is now below 60 percent according to them -- for the first six months.

Barack Obama's 1st six months: 57%
George W. Bush's 1st six months: 57%

340 albusteve  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:35:34pm

re: #330 Dark_Falcon

I'm in the same boat. Read an article on the discovery of the wreck of the Bismarck in a National Geographic (November, 1989, twenty years ago this year), developed an interest in the battle that sank her, and I've been a history buff ever since. LGF is one of very few places where I can talk with like-minded people.


I'm like minded in spirit!....I love history but I taketh way more than I giveth here....too many big dogs, so I just listen and learn...

and on that note I must service my harem, but will leave you with this...a metaphor for Americans everywhere...

341 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:36:18pm

re: #280 Killian Bundy

DogMateOnline


/next thing you know, a global radical Islamic jihadi recruiting organization, with proven ties to al Qaeda, will be holding a convention at a Hilton in a major U.S. city on Sunday

What do you want to bet that people are speaking in code there to arrange their own meetings?

342 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:36:23pm

re: #327 srb1976

I've never read the book, but that paragraph gave me goosebumps....

HI srb1976!! ShanghaiEd has only given you a small taste, believe me!! If you haven't read Cormac McCarthy yet, here's my recommendation (and Shanghai will correct me if I'm a little out of order):

Start with "No Country for Old Men". It's really accessible, and if you've seen the movie, you'll be a step up on getting into McCarthy.

Next, move on to "The Crossing". Read the first section - about the boy and the wolf - and keep on going!

Third, give "All the Pretty Horses" a try. It's the first in the trilogy, but it doesn't matter - just don't read "Cities of the Plain" until you've read "All the Pretty Horses" and "The Crossing".

Now go back a bit, and read "Blood Meridian".

Once you're there, go back to McCarthy's earlier novels - they're set a bit east of Texas.

At any point, go ahead and read "The Road". It - like "No Country" stands alone.

Believe me, you'll be really glad ya started!

:-)

343 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:37:25pm

re: #340 albusteve
You wish! Harem indeed, heh. Good night.

344 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:38:59pm

re: #343 pingjockey
Harem? Y'all gotta be kidding me! If nothing else think how long that "honey do" list will be!

345 jvic  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:40:01pm

re: #336 realwest

Thanks.

346 sngnsgt  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:40:06pm

re: #339 Gus 802

Uh oh. Chavez News Network isn't very happy Obama's approval is now below 60 percent according to them -- for the first six months.

Barack Obama's 1st six months: 57%
George W. Bush's 1st six months: 57%

And that's before Barry O's tax increases and the healthcare program to from hell.

347 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:40:58pm

re: #344 realwest
No shit! One is bad enough! Now I suppose islamists with harems don't have honey do lists. The honeys 'do' or else.

348 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:41:10pm

re: #341 haakondahl

What do you want to bet that people are speaking in code there to arrange their own meetings?

Using steganography.

/nothing surprises me anymore, that's what makes me good

349 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:41:33pm

re: #346 sngnsgt

And that's before Barry O's tax increases and the healthcare program to from hell.

Yep. And whatever else he might have up his sleeve.

Is he still in Ghana?

350 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:41:40pm

re: #342 subsailor68

Cool, thanks (will have to remember to see the movie BEFORE I read the book...it's never any good the other way around)

351 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:01pm

re: #327 srb1976

I've never read the book, but that paragraph gave me goosebumps....

Doesn't it, though? McCarthy's one of the greats of our time, I think.

Best description of his work I've seen was a critic who said, "McCarthy's books are a guided tour of hell, written by an angel." The rhythms of his prose are often reminiscent of the King James Bible, which gives a sort of ancient, lost-in-time feel even to contemporary events.

All the Pretty Horses is a good starting point, I think. Blood Meridian is a harrowing, violent nightmare of a book.

352 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:42:43pm

re: #338 pingjockey

Oh it's ok. I have PT109 in my library and this is the first I'd heard that the crew was asleep. They were supposed to be out hunting barges. That's how the Japanese were supplying some of the bypassed islands. Barges at night. PT boats were good barge killers.

Actually, the primary targets that night were four IJN destroyers running supplies to Rendova Island, of which Amagiri was the lead ship. Such nocturnal supply runs by IJN destroyers in the Solomon Islands were known by the USN as the 'Tokyo Express'. The US made frequent and often successful attack on such supply runs, but such attacks were dangerous. In the month prior to PT-109's loss, USN intercept attempts had cost both navies two destroyers and a light cruiser each. Such an exchange, costly though it was, was still a USN victory as we could replace our losses and Japan could not.

353 sngnsgt  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:45:28pm

re: #349 Gus 802

Yep. And whatever else he might have up his sleeve.

Is he still in Ghana?

I don't care, if he's out of The United States, that's a good thing. If he is, maybe they'll just leave him there, although I don't think we could get that lucky.

354 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:45:48pm

re: #352 Dark_Falcon

Ah, I thought they were barge hunting. Going after IJN destroyers in a PT boat takes big guts. The Japanese for the first couple of years in the SE Pacific handed the USN severe ass whuppins, especially at night.

355 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:46:57pm

re: #353 sngnsgt

I don't care, if he's out of The United States, that's a good thing. If he is, maybe they'll just leave him there, although I don't think we could get that lucky.

Yeah, I heard they're looking for a new president there. //

"Um sir, we forgot the president."

//

356 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:47:10pm

re: #354 pingjockey

Ah, I thought they were barge hunting. Going after IJN destroyers in a PT boat takes big guts. The Japanese for the first couple of years in the SE Pacific handed the USN severe ass whuppins, especially at night.

Those Long Lance torpedoes with 4x the range of US torpedoes and night optics for ranging the Japanese had gave them a distinct advantage at night.

357 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:47:21pm

re: #351 ShanghaiEd

Doesn't it, though? McCarthy's one of the greats of our time, I think.

Best description of his work I've seen was a critic who said, "McCarthy's books are a guided tour of hell, written by an angel." The rhythms of his prose are often reminiscent of the King James Bible, which gives a sort of ancient, lost-in-time feel even to contemporary events.

All the Pretty Horses is a good starting point, I think. Blood Meridian is a harrowing, violent nightmare of a book.

Yep, I could agree with "All the Pretty Horses". The only reason I have for listing the first part of "The Crossing" was that I had a lovely girl friend who wasn't all that sure about McCarthy. So, I said, "just read the first part of 'The Crossing'. If the story of the young man and the wolf doesn't appeal to you, no problem."

She's read everything McCarthy has written. (Well, after she stopped crying.)

;-)

358 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:48:42pm

re: #350 srb1976

Cool, thanks (will have to remember to see the movie BEFORE I read the book...it's never any good the other way around)

Great. Just keep in mind that a lot of people are put off by McCarthy's violence, especially the over-the-top examples such as No Country and Blood Meridian. But there's great beauty and tenderness and humor...OK, dark humor...in his other work, be sure not to throw out the baby with the bath, so to speak.

There's also his newest novel, The Road, a dark apocalyptic saga that's very low on explicit blood and gore; sort of a science-fiction feel. I'm not saying it's good; it just won him the Pulitzer for fiction in 2007. :)

359 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:49:03pm

By the way GOOG seems to have lost it's growth luster.

/the bloom is off the rose, maybe for good

360 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:49:10pm

re: #356 jcm
Yep. The IJN was very good. As the Russians had found out 40 years(?) before at Tsushima.

361 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:52:38pm

re: #339 Gus 802
Huh, it's even better or - depending how you feel about it - worse. Note at the end that "CNN's Poll of Polls consists of five national surveys with interviews conducted in July: the Gallup tracking poll (July 13-15); Ipsos/McClatchy (July 9-13); Diageo/Hotline (July 9-13); USA Today/Gallup (July 10-12) and CBS News (July 9-12). The Poll of Polls does not have a sampling error."
So Gallup - which has had Obama higher than anyother pollster for the last 5 months gets TWO shots at this one (it's own and the USA Today/Gallup while nary a mention of Rasmussen - who has been pretty carefully tracking Obama on a daily basis among LIKELY Voters (i.e., those who have voted in the last election) has him at 54 and those against at 41.
In any event - I receive two Rasmussen polls a day - mostly to get me off their free list and onto their pay for premium list! - and while their respondents also cite the economy (especially cap and trade and health care) they also have expressed a lot of displeasure at the RUSH techniques of getting bills passed and are no longer buying that line - we have to have it done by X date just isn't washing with the voters much anymore. That gives congresscritters a chance to read the actual damn bills before they vote on 'em!
Won't that be DIFFERENT boys and girls!

362 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:52:45pm

re: #360 pingjockey

Yep. The IJN was very good. As the Russians had found out 40 years(?) before at Tsushima.

Twice.

363 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:52:56pm

Going to jump in the kids pool. We got an above ground a couple of years ago and try to go to sleep, after I get out of the pool!
G'night folks. See ya in the morning!

364 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:53:38pm

re: #345 jvic
You're quite welcome!

365 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:53:52pm

re: #356 jcm

Those Long Lance torpedoes with 4x the range of US torpedoes and night optics for ranging the Japanese had gave them a distinct advantage at night.

/got 'em to run shallow at Pearl Harbor too

366 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:54:14pm

re: #356 jcm

Those Long Lance torpedoes with 4x the range of US torpedoes and night optics for ranging the Japanese had gave them a distinct advantage at night.

True, though by mid-1943 the USN's vastly superior radar had started to shift the balance. Radar let us fire salvos without visual contact, extending the range for night engagments. By the time of the Battle of Empress Augusta Bay a few months later, The USN was able to use its own advantages to deadly effect and pummel an IJN attempt to stop an American landing on Bougainville.

367 haakondahl  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:54:25pm

re: #363 pingjockey

Going to jump in the kids pool. We got an above ground a couple of years ago and try to go to sleep, after I get out of the pool!
G'night folks. See ya in the morning!

It's always morning somewhere in the fleet.

368 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:55:46pm

re: #342 subsailor68

HI srb1976!! ShanghaiEd has only given you a small taste, believe me!! If you haven't read Cormac McCarthy yet, here's my recommendation (and Shanghai will correct me if I'm a little out of order):

Start with "No Country for Old Men". It's really accessible, and if you've seen the movie, you'll be a step up on getting into McCarthy.

Next, move on to "The Crossing". Read the first section - about the boy and the wolf - and keep on going!

Third, give "All the Pretty Horses" a try. It's the first in the trilogy, but it doesn't matter - just don't read "Cities of the Plain" until you've read "All the Pretty Horses" and "The Crossing".

Now go back a bit, and read "Blood Meridian".

Once you're there, go back to McCarthy's earlier novels - they're set a bit east of Texas.

At any point, go ahead and read "The Road". It - like "No Country" stands alone.

Believe me, you'll be really glad ya started!

:-)

A very good plan, methinks.

I would only add what is possibly his most unusual book, Suttree. Have you read it? Dark, dark humor. Dark.

But hilarious and profound if you're in the right mood. Title character is a ne'er-do-well hermit who lives among vagrants on the Tennessee River.

Read the first chapter, and it'll either revolt you or draw you in forever. How many books have a first scene about watermelon sex, and get weirder from there?

Also, I agree with you about the boy-and-wolf chapter from The Crossing. Not only his best writing, but some of the best ever, I think.

369 Syrah  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:56:16pm

re: #361 realwest

Huh, it's even better or - depending how you feel about it - worse. Note at the end that "CNN's Poll of Polls consists of five national surveys with interviews conducted in July: the Gallup tracking poll (July 13-15); Ipsos/McClatchy (July 9-13); Diageo/Hotline (July 9-13); USA Today/Gallup (July 10-12) and CBS News (July 9-12). The Poll of Polls does not have a sampling error."
So Gallup - which has had Obama higher than anyother pollster for the last 5 months gets TWO shots at this one (it's own and the USA Today/Gallup while nary a mention of Rasmussen - who has been pretty carefully tracking Obama on a daily basis among LIKELY Voters (i.e., those who have voted in the last election) has him at 54 and those against at 41.
In any event - I receive two Rasmussen polls a day - mostly to get me off their free list and onto their pay for premium list! - and while their respondents also cite the economy (especially cap and trade and health care) they also have expressed a lot of displeasure at the RUSH techniques of getting bills passed and are no longer buying that line - we have to have it done by X date just isn't washing with the voters much anymore. That gives congresscritters a chance to read the actual damn bills before they vote on 'em!
Won't that be DIFFERENT boys and girls!

The Rush will still likely be on.

They will want to get as much passed before the congresscritters have to start worrying about the next election. They know that the voting public has a short memory, but its not so short that they can risk doing anything too radical in the second year of their term.

370 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:56:37pm

re: #354 pingjockey
It sure does take guts, especially because destroyers first came into being as a way to deal with PT - Motor Patrol Boats of the German navy!
Going hunting after something DESIGNED to kill you is a very brave thing to do indeed!

371 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:57:53pm

re: #361 realwest

Huh, it's even better or - depending how you feel about it - worse. Note at the end that "CNN's Poll of Polls consists of five national surveys with interviews conducted in July: the Gallup tracking poll (July 13-15); Ipsos/McClatchy (July 9-13); Diageo/Hotline (July 9-13); USA Today/Gallup (July 10-12) and CBS News (July 9-12). The Poll of Polls does not have a sampling error."
So Gallup - which has had Obama higher than anyother pollster for the last 5 months gets TWO shots at this one (it's own and the USA Today/Gallup while nary a mention of Rasmussen - who has been pretty carefully tracking Obama on a daily basis among LIKELY Voters (i.e., those who have voted in the last election) has him at 54 and those against at 41.
In any event - I receive two Rasmussen polls a day - mostly to get me off their free list and onto their pay for premium list! - and while their respondents also cite the economy (especially cap and trade and health care) they also have expressed a lot of displeasure at the RUSH techniques of getting bills passed and are no longer buying that line - we have to have it done by X date just isn't washing with the voters much anymore. That gives congresscritters a chance to read the actual damn bills before they vote on 'em!
Won't that be DIFFERENT boys and girls!

Right. That's why I think it's good news because it is a biased CNN poll report -- more or less. Rasmussen provides a different view and one could say a better outlook on things.

Sorry, was looking at some stock charts.

372 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:58:05pm

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

True, though by mid-1943 the USN's vastly superior radar had started to shift the balance. Radar let us fire salvos without visual contact, extending the range for night engagments. By the time of the Battle of Empress Augusta Bay a few months later, The USN was able to use its own advantages to deadly effect and pummel an IJN attempt to stop an American landing on Bougainville.

Two years, two long years to catch up. Only Midway bought us he time to catch up, Fletcher's decision to take the win the withdraw.

Can you imagine today's media reporting the first couple of years of WWII?

373 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 10:59:12pm

re: #368 ShanghaiEd

A very good plan, methinks.

I would only add what is possibly his most unusual book, Suttree. Have you read it? Dark, dark humor. Dark.

But hilarious and profound if you're in the right mood. Title character is a ne'er-do-well hermit who lives among vagrants on the Tennessee River.

Read the first chapter, and it'll either revolt you or draw you in forever. How many books have a first scene about watermelon sex, and get weirder from there?

Also, I agree with you about the boy-and-wolf chapter from The Crossing. Not only his best writing, but some of the best ever, I think.

Oh yeah! Suttree has become one of my favorites! As I mentioned up thread, it's become like a Huckleberry Finn for me - albeit a really twisted version. I love his trips into town - sitting around the stove....well, you know. It's terrific!!

374 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:00:40pm

re: #359 Killian Bundy
Yep, but if you look at the analysts comments there are more "buy" than "sell" and a shit load of Hold too.
I think it's not necessarily a good time to be selling 'em.

375 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:01:44pm

re: #372 jcm

Two years, two long years to catch up. Only Midway bought us he time to catch up, Fletcher's decision to take the win the withdraw.

Can you imagine today's media reporting the first couple of years of WWII?

"100s dead in Operation Torch in North Africa."

"Should we have invaded Morocco and Algeria?"

"War crimes in Tunisia?"

"Why invade Sicily?"

/

376 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:03:16pm

re: #375 Gus 802

"100s dead in Operation Torch in North Africa."

"Should we have invaded Morocco and Algeria?"

"War crimes in Tunisia?"

"Why invade Sicily?"

/

Fleet runs from Japanese at Midway.

/

377 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:04:52pm

re: #376 jcm

Fleet runs from Japanese at Midway.

/

"Does America respect Nipponese sovereignty? A special report from George Chu"

"General Eisenhower. Can you please tell us. Do you have any plans to quit smoking?"

"General Eisenhower: A 5 pack a day smoker, is that responsible?"

//

378 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:05:00pm

re: #372 jcm

Two years, two long years to catch up. Only Midway bought us he time to catch up, Fletcher's decision to take the win the withdraw.

Can you imagine today's media reporting the first couple of years of WWII?

I'm not even going to try to imagine that. Midway can be seen as pointing to on of the ultimate keys to beating the IJN: American Heavy AA fire control was far superior to that of Japan, and our Light AA was even better comparatively. Radar also helped us establish better air defense tactics. Japan had started with better fighters but by 1943 the F4U Corsair and P-38 Lightning had turned the tables on the Japanese.

379 subsailor68  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:05:08pm

Well all, time for bed! This thread is just one example of why I love LGF! Parallel discussions of history and literature. It doesn't get any better than that - anywhere on the Web.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone!!

380 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:05:23pm

re: #369 Syrah

The Rush will still likely be on.

They will want to get as much passed before the congresscritters have to start worrying about the next election. They know that the voting public has a short memory, but its not so short that they can risk doing anything too radical in the second year of their term.


Hi Syrah, yeah, that's why SO much of the Stimulus money hasn't been spent yet - they are saving it up so the Leftists don't lose too many seats to the Republicans. But everytime the unemployment goes up, the leftist congresscritters get more and more nervous. Wait til some smart, WELL KNOWN economist manages to figure out how to factor in UNDER employment as well. The you know what is gonna hit the fan, big time. And they know it. The Leftist part proposed no new positive legistlation in 2007 and 2008 that I can recall, even though they controlled both houses of Congress. Blaming Bush isn't going to put 'em over top, I tells ya!

381 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:06:10pm

re: #373 subsailor68

Oh yeah! Suttree has become one of my favorites! As I mentioned up thread, it's become like a Huckleberry Finn for me - albeit a really twisted version. I love his trips into town - sitting around the stove....well, you know. It's terrific!!

Good deal. Yep, the bar fight in Suttree is one of the great set-pieces in modern fiction, I think. Remember the part about the nurse and the carpet sweeper?

Also, Suttree's inner monologue as he senses that the mood in the bar is getting ugly. He feels in his pocket for his knife:

He bore no man ill will. But if people start getting cut in here, he thought, I don't aim to be the last one.

A man after my own heart, for sure. :)

382 Syrah  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:07:09pm

re: #380 realwest

Hi Syrah, yeah, that's why SO much of the Stimulus money hasn't been spent yet - they are saving it up so the Leftists don't lose too many seats to the Republicans. But everytime the unemployment goes up, the leftist congresscritters get more and more nervous. Wait til some smart, WELL KNOWN economist manages to figure out how to factor in UNDER employment as well. The you know what is gonna hit the fan, big time. And they know it. The Leftist part proposed no new positive legistlation in 2007 and 2008 that I can recall, even though they controlled both houses of Congress. Blaming Bush isn't going to put 'em over top, I tells ya!

I hope you are right about that.

383 Soona'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:07:32pm

re: #361 realwest

Huh, it's even better or - depending how you feel about it - worse. Note at the end that "CNN's Poll of Polls consists of five national surveys with interviews conducted in July: the Gallup tracking poll (July 13-15); Ipsos/McClatchy (July 9-13); Diageo/Hotline (July 9-13); USA Today/Gallup (July 10-12) and CBS News (July 9-12). The Poll of Polls does not have a sampling error."
So Gallup - which has had Obama higher than anyother pollster for the last 5 months gets TWO shots at this one (it's own and the USA Today/Gallup while nary a mention of Rasmussen - who has been pretty carefully tracking Obama on a daily basis among LIKELY Voters (i.e., those who have voted in the last election) has him at 54 and those against at 41.
In any event - I receive two Rasmussen polls a day - mostly to get me off their free list and onto their pay for premium list! - and while their respondents also cite the economy (especially cap and trade and health care) they also have expressed a lot of displeasure at the RUSH techniques of getting bills passed and are no longer buying that line - we have to have it done by X date just isn't washing with the voters much anymore. That gives congresscritters a chance to read the actual damn bills before they vote on 'em!
Won't that be DIFFERENT boys and girls!

It doesn't mean that Peelosi and the gang aren't going to try.

384 realwest  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:08:21pm

well y'all it's really late and I gotta get some sleep.
I hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.


Good night, all

385 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:08:43pm

re: #384 realwest

G'nite realwest!

386 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:09:10pm

re: #379 subsailor68

Well all, time for bed! This thread is just one example of why I love LGF! Parallel discussions of history and literature. It doesn't get any better than that - anywhere on the Web.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone!!

Nite, sub! Enjoyed it, greatly. I'm out of here, too, I think.

Speaking of literature, one of the zillion great books I haven't read is Crime and Punishment. I'm trying to remedy that this month by doing a chapter a night before I sleep. Makes for some interesting dreams; trust me. :)

387 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:09:12pm

I'm zoning again. My cue to say . . .

weet dreams all!

388 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:10:02pm

Bye subsailor, ggt!

389 Soona'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:10:12pm

re: #376 jcm

Fleet runs from Japanese at Midway.

/

"Airmen Die Needlessly in Botched Torpedo Attacks".

390 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:10:25pm

MK-48 variant

/top that

re: #374 realwest

Yep, but if you look at the analysts comments there are more "buy" than "sell" and a shit load of Hold too.
I think it's not necessarily a good time to be selling 'em.

I do my own research, including a broker provided proprietary statistical analysis of historical "analyst accuracy".

/they're hardly created equal and very few are good

391 ShanghaiEd  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:11:19pm

re: #384 realwest

well y'all it's really late and I gotta get some sleep.
I hope you all have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all

Night, RW! I'm turning in, too. Hope to talk with you over the weekend.

392 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:13:17pm

Wow! good night everybody....am I the only one left?

393 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:14:20pm

re: #389 Soona'

"Airmen Die Needlessly in Botched Torpedo Attacks".

"I am standing outside a church in a safe area outside of Ardennes-Alsace on the 16th day of December. America, the Germans have struck back hard and after seeing the devastation that has been wrought on our young men, I can tell you today, that the war is lost."

///

394 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:15:08pm

re: #393 Gus 802

"I am standing outside a church in a safe area outside of Ardennes-Alsace on the 16th day of December. America, the Germans have struck back hard and after seeing the devastation that has been wrought on our young men, I can tell you today, that the war is lost."

///

Leftist reporters are really scummy, aren't they?

395 Soona'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:15:08pm

re: #392 srb1976

Wow! good night everybody....am I the only one left?

I'm here, if that's any consolation.

396 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:15:20pm

I'm still here.....just saying goodbye to the other lizards.

397 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:16:08pm

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

Leftist reporters are really scummy, aren't they?

For sure. I think JCM introduced an interesting scenario.

What if they were around then.

398 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:16:36pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

I'm not even going to try to imagine that. Midway can be seen as pointing to on of the ultimate keys to beating the IJN: American Heavy AA fire control was far superior to that of Japan, and our Light AA was even better comparatively. Radar also helped us establish better air defense tactics. Japan had started with better fighters but by 1943 the F4U Corsair and P-38 Lightning had turned the tables on the Japanese.

And the biggie, our untouched industrial base, just pouring planes, ships and ammunition into the fight.

USS Carriers in '41

USS LEXINGTON (CV-2)
USS SARATOGA (CV-3)
USS RANGER (CV-4)
USS YORKTOWN (CV-5)
USS ENTERPRISE (CV-6)
USS WASP (CV-7)
USS LONG ISLAND (AVG-1)

By '45 including the Jeep carriers, we had nearly 100. Japanese were out.

399 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:16:36pm

re: #395 Soona'

I'm here, if that's any consolation.

Very much so...it's gonna be a long night, and when it comes to staying awake until the wee small hours, you guys are a lot of help!

400 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:17:13pm

re: #399 srb1976

Very much so...it's gonna be a long night, and when it comes to staying awake until the wee small hours, you guys are a lot of help!

Stay awake!

/

401 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:18:44pm

re: #400 Gus 802

Stay awake!

/

Night shift starts tomorrow night.....easier to stay up LATE tonight so I can sleep some tomorrow

402 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:18:47pm

re: #398 jcm

By '45 including the Jeep carriers, we had nearly 100. Japanese were out.

The American productivity during WWII still amazes me.

403 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:19:31pm

re: #398 jcm

By '45 including the Jeep carriers, we had nearly 100. Japanese were out.

Agreed. We built more Essex-class CVs than they built Fleet carriers of all classes. Yamamoto and Nagumo were right about a long war favoring us and both men died in said war.

404 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:19:32pm

re: #401 srb1976

Night shift starts tomorrow night.....easier to stay up LATE tonight so I can sleep some tomorrow

Makes sense.

405 jcm  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:19:34pm

It's been fun as usual.

Night Honcos.

“The Third Fleet's sunken and damaged ships have been salvaged and are retiring at high speed toward the enemy.”
Admiral William (Bull) Frederick Halsey Jr.

406 Soona'  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:19:44pm

re: #393 Gus 802

"I am standing outside a church in a safe area outside of Ardennes-Alsace on the 16th day of December. America, the Germans have struck back hard and after seeing the devastation that has been wrought on our young men, I can tell you today, that the war is lost."

///

If Obama were president in WWII: "We must solve this European indiginous armed misunderstanding diplomatically".

407 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:19:59pm

re: #405 jcm

It's been fun as usual.

Night Honcos.

“The Third Fleet's sunken and damaged ships have been salvaged and are retiring at high speed toward the enemy.”
Admiral William (Bull) Frederick Halsey Jr.

Later JCM.

408 srb1976  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:20:50pm

re: #406 Soona'

If Obama were president in WWII: "We must solve this European indiginous armed misunderstanding diplomatically".

Could you imagine his response to Pearl Harbor? {shudder}

409 Gus  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:20:52pm

re: #406 Soona'

If Obama were president in WWII: "We must solve this European indiginous armed misunderstanding diplomatically".

"I intend to meet with Hitler and without pre-conditions."

"Unclench your fist Germany!"

//

410 jvic  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:25:22pm

Good night, Ed. If you haven't seen it & remember in the AM, I replied to your Rove/Atwater comment.

411 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 17, 2009 11:25:41pm

re: #408 srb1976

Could you imagine his response to Pearl Harbor? {shudder}

Lucky for us that we had a man in the White House back then. FDR caused America a lot of grief, but his management of the WWII war effort was superb and never wavered from seeing the Axis powers defeated. If only Obama could be half the man FDR was.

On that note, I'll head to bed. Goodnight, all. Thanks for the great discussion.

412 haakondahl  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 12:17:07am

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. We built more Essex-class CVs than they built Fleet carriers of all classes. Yamamoto and Nagumo were right about a long war favoring us and both men died in said war.

We dispatched a few planes specifically to shoot down Yamamoto's plane, on a hairy just-might-make-it mission. He was too good a man to kill, but too good a man to let live.
If a few more men of his forthright nature and standing in Japanese society had survived, Japan might have faced up to their guilt by now. This is the horrible blind spot which continues threatening, albeit in a remote sense, to destabilize the country.
The japanese people are amazingly tough, and not well-suited to victim status. The artificial, political victimhood which has them rending garments and wailing about Peace and Nukes is a poor fit, and will be thrown off at some point. When Japan goes on the warpath and they haven't digested the lessons of WWII, it will be bad indeed. Take any bad thing and make it worse by adding the word "Asian" in front of it. They are a people of extremes, which is part of why the blood-drenched animosity between the IJA and the USMC. No better friends, no worse enemies, and no surrender, no way.

413 FrogMarch  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 6:16:57am

Talk about digging in your heels. Must be exhausting.

414 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 7:32:22am
415 Render  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 7:53:32am

[Link: alassmithandgraham.blogspot.com...]

Note that neo-nazi Mick Cartwright, (one of Nick Griffins 2004 Blood & Honor bodyguards), has Fillip DeWinters "Odin Cross" tattooed on his left bicep, in between all the swastikas, _itler quotes, and SS deathheads.

Those are the people that Pammy is linking to or quoting from and she has been for quite some time.

Those are the people that some of the denizens of the most recent LGF stalker blog are linking to and allying with.

They (the BNP) don't look very "pro-Israel" to me. Fact is, they're not even particularly "anti-Jihad" either. The BNP just wants everybody with dark skin (or the wrong religion) out of England. Which is what the VB wants for Belgium, and the FN wants for France, etcetcetc...

Fact is, the vast majority of the Nick Griffin pictures that can be found on line feature one-eyed Nick "associating" with neo-nazis, racists, Jew-haters, and other degenerate pedophile scumbags. Probably because that's about all the associates he's ever had throughout his entire pitiful life.

So yeah, Pamela Geller is certifiable. So is Spencer. So is Bostom.

JOSHUA,
R

416 Render  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 7:58:16am

re: #414 myself

No. It is Spencer, Geller, and Bostom themselves that are appalling. There is no doubt about the BNP to be benefited.

PERIOD,
R

417 MPH  Sat, Jul 18, 2009 8:12:32am

re: #115 Thanos

There's a big constellation of lobby and publishing money behind some of the folks Charles has outed like Spencer etc., and they aren't taking kindly to this. It's why anyone who appears to be supportive of moderate views gets attacked. It's why this keeps coming up, each time they get gored worse but they keep coming back for more. At some point someone needs to climb the tree and do a "follow the networks" thing on them.

David Horowitz acquired Jihad Watch into the David Horowitz's Freedom Center sometime around 2006 -- and now pays Spencer six figures (~125K/yr) to run Jihad Watch. Of course they have something to lose.

[Link: www.guidestar.org...]


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