This is the sequel to science teacher Greg Craven’s “What’s the Worst That Could Happen” video, clarifying his arguments after he received many comments and responses to his first video.
You may also be interested in Craven’s book based on the videos: What’s the Worst That Could Happen? I have it on my Kindle now, waiting to be read after I finish this great Joe Lansdale novel: Sunset and Sawdust.
1 |
swamprat Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:37:45pm |
I thought that Pascals’ wager applied to Global Warming was an interesting take. His elaborations on the original is smoother, though.
| 2 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:38:26pm |
Awfully quiet in here.
*tap*tap*tap*
Is this thing on?
| 5 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:40:31pm |
“man, we are totally hosed”…heh
so change the culture
| 6 |
Crimsonfisted Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:40:33pm |
Finally. Comments. Biding my time before I go out and view the Gemindes, Geminidises, Germini… meteor shower.
Still learning this issue. Everytime I begin to read the science, I get lost.
I need something simple. Like this.
| 8 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:42:33pm |
Playing the two roles was really cute. I like how he did all the nifty fire tricks too. A subtle way to get younger viewers interested in learning more about science, perhaps? If so- very clever of him, and I hope it works. As for the two videos themselves- I’ll be sending them around to a few people in the hope they will make a difference.
| 9 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:42:54pm |
re: #2 Killgore Trout
Awfully quiet in here.
*tap*tap*tap*
Is this thing on?
I was watching the video.
| 10 |
Bagua Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:45:02pm |
| 11 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:45:41pm |
Charles mention the Kindle and a book that he’s reading. Does that mean this is a book thread?
I’m into John Connolly’s Charlie Parker mystery series. I took one out of the library, thinking it was a Michael Connelly book, and it way surpasses Harry Bosch.
| 12 |
Obdicut Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:46:34pm |
He’s such an enormous dork.
I like that he points out that waiting is actively choosing column B.
I like that he’s going after it in a kind of probabilistic way.
I like that he brings up all of the normal counterarguments and presents them honestly.
| 13 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:51:17pm |
I think the best we can do is move ahead of the debate, the question of whether AGW real or not (which I believe it is)…and try and do what we can to kill two birds with one stone…doing the right thing economically also thwarts a continued dumping of CO2 into the atmosphere…I want to believe there is a middle ground and carbon emissions is the obvious key…it will take awhile but there has to be something for everybody in this debate to be able to move foreward…denile nor zeolotry are not the answer
| 14 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:51:34pm |
re: #11 Alouette
Re: books
DIY Book Scanners Turn Your Books Into Bytes
I might give this a try. Traveling with 600 page reference books is such a drag. I’d love to convert them to PDF’s. My life would be so much easier.
| 15 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:52:06pm |
re: #5 albusteve
“man, we are totally hosed”…heh
so change the culture
The last time we let a lot of palefaces in here to change the culture it broke bad.
| 16 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:53:44pm |
The philosophical-ontological problem, of course, is that the death of an entire species means no more to an individual of the species than does the death of the entire species.
Herein lies the dilemma.
| 17 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:53:57pm |
re: #15 Decatur Deb
The last time we let a lot of palefaces in here to change the culture it broke bad.
why?…even buffalo bones were worth $6 a ton in 1885…it’s all about profit
| 18 |
iceweasel Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:54:19pm |
re: #10 Bagua
“How it all ends”
The End
[Video]- BeatlesChoose your end.
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
eliot
| 19 |
jayzee Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:54:33pm |
re: #12 Obdicut
He’s such an enormous dork.
I like that he points out that waiting is actively choosing column B.
I like that he’s going after it in a kind of probabilistic way.
I like that he brings up all of the normal counterarguments and presents them honestly.
I like that he points out the flawed logic in the original video. Like I said, this is a more compelling argument.
| 20 |
iceweasel Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:56:01pm |
re: #16 Cato the Elder
The philosophical-ontological problem, of course, is that the death of an entire species means no more to an individual of the species than does the death of the entire species.
Herein lies the dilemma.
Oh, you’re just influenced by that dude who said the death of a single mouse was the sack of Rome by the Visigoths…
| 21 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:56:28pm |
Posit -
Action - Certain Economic Harm
Inaction - Possible Avoidance of Catastrophe
Discussion?
-S-
| 22 |
jayzee Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:56:49pm |
re: #8 Sharmuta
Playing the two roles was really cute. I like how he did all the nifty fire tricks too. A subtle way to get younger viewers interested in learning more about science, perhaps? If so- very clever of him, and I hope it works. As for the two videos themselves- I’ll be sending them around to a few people in the hope they will make a difference.
As an aside and as part confessional, the first video was shown to me about a yr ago (I think-I got no real memory left). At that time, I focused entirely on the flaws in the first to avoid thinking about AGW. I think your better off going with number two if you want to make a difference. Just my humble opinion.
| 23 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:58:47pm |
| 24 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 4:59:17pm |
| 25 |
jayzee Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:00:11pm |
re: #21 Dr. Shalit
Posit -
Action - Certain Economic Harm
Inaction - Possible Avoidance of Catastrophe
Discussion?
-S-
There are still generalizations here to be sure. For example, the worst case for economic harm can really also be war, relocation, epidemics, etc. However, here he states that the more likely reality is that AGW is happening, therefore the risks from that are greater.
| 26 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:01:12pm |
I read an article by some professor who speculates that northern countries like Canada will benefit from global warming:
* Reduced heating costs,
* Reduced fuel bills for travel,
* A longer growing season allowing a greater variety of crops,
* Less frost damage and crop loss,
* A greater variety of plants for gardens and other uses,
* More rapidly growing forests and an increased rate of reforestation,
* Less frost damage to streets and roads,
* Potential for direct access to world markets through northern ports,
* Reduced construction costs in an ameliorated climate, and
* A longer summer season for tourism, and for cottagers and campers.
I find this very hard to believe.
Anyone know whether the scientific consensus forecasts consequences by region or by country?
| 27 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:02:38pm |
It is really cold where I am right now. Global Warming must be a lie.
| 28 |
iceweasel Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:03:29pm |
re: #24 Decatur Deb
“We’re stupid and we’re going to die”
-Pris
All those moments will be lost in time…like tears in rain.
| 29 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:04:26pm |
it appears someone has to go in this cruel worldre: #26 Spare O’Lake
why?…isn’t one premise that creeping GW up the latitudes will improve regions otherwise to cold to grow tomatoes?…etc
| 30 |
swamprat Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:04:49pm |
re: #21 Dr. Shalit
Posit -
Action - Certain Economic Harm
Inaction - Possible Avoidance of Catastrophe
Discussion?
-S-
No time for anti-Obama rhetoric; we’re discussing global warming.
| 31 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:05:52pm |
re: #26 Spare O’Lake
I read an article by some professor who speculates that northern countries like Canada will benefit from global warming:
There are certainly some areas that would benefit in these ways. But that ignores the cost globally and likely in many unpredictable ways. What happens to weather patterns overall and what effects would those have? What about other animal, insect and plant species? Would species such as honeybees make a successful transition in order to pollinate those new crops? Etc.
| 32 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:06:16pm |
re: #29 albusteve
it appears someone has to go in this cruel world
why?…isn’t one premise that creeping GW up the latitudes will improve regions otherwise to cold to grow tomatoes?…etc
Depends on the speed of the creep.
| 33 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:06:58pm |
re: #26 Spare O’Lake
Does this mean no more snowbirds at Panama City Beach?
| 34 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:09:22pm |
re: #32 Decatur Deb
Depends on the speed of the creep.
has it been determined how long we have to live before we all cook or drown?…months or years?…do honey bees even count if time is so short?
| 35 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:09:22pm |
| 36 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:10:14pm |
| 37 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:10:25pm |
re: #34 albusteve
has it been determined how long we have to live before we all cook or drown?…months or years?…do honey bees even count if time is so short?
If time is that short, we’re just doomed. If it isn’t, honeybees count big time.
| 38 |
Jaerik Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:10:45pm |
re: #26 Spare O’Lake
Anyone know whether the scientific consensus forecasts consequences by region or by country?
There’s a lot of those lists floating around. The problem is, they’re based on the notion that “global warming” will just mean a calm, smooth increase in temperatures with no adverse changes in overall climate. The arguments break down when you start pointing out that warming in some areas can disrupt weather patterns that in turn cause greater cooling in others, etc. What you’re really doing is pumping more energy into the atmosphere, and more energy can have a lot more crazy effects than just a gentle change in temperature.
It’s sort of why the preferred term for the problem is now “climate change” and not “global warming.”
| 39 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:11:37pm |
| 40 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:11:58pm |
re: #23 allegro
Is this a given?
allegro -
Is certain Destruction? That is in fact the argument. Example, when I drive or ride I wear a seatbelt. The chance that I will be involved in a collision, let alone injured in one is small. If I believed destruction was certain, I wouldn’t ride, let alone drive.
-S-
| 41 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:12:08pm |
re: #36 albusteve
there is a town in the Fla panhandle called Panama City
My point was that if (when?) sea levels rise, there will not be a Panama City above water.
| 42 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:12:30pm |
Adaptation to the coming changes is the only option until deliberate and planned climate modification is working.
| 44 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:12:47pm |
re: #31 allegro
There are certainly some areas that would benefit in these ways. But that ignores the cost globally and likely in many unpredictable ways. What happens to weather patterns overall and what effects would those have? What about other animal, insect and plant species? Would species such as honeybees make a successful transition in order to pollinate those new crops? Etc.
I was watching a TV replay yesterday of a recent debate on climate change. One of the interesting things was that the proponents (Monbiot and May) used tropical African nations as their examples for the worst case scenarios, but did not bother to mention any other geographical areas.
If I were advocating for AGW I would compile science-based predictions for effects of GW on various nations in order to drive home the need for international action.
Anyone seen any of this?
| 45 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:14:09pm |
re: #36 albusteve
there is a town in the Fla panhandle called Panama City
Its winter population is heavily Canadian. I’ll look for snowbird stata.
| 46 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:14:28pm |
re: #39 Decatur Deb
Dunno, myself. That’s one could use a nice discussion w/ Baqua, LVQ, etc.
nobody knows…it’s that simple, we are going into Doomsday blind of any timeline
| 47 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:16:27pm |
re: #41 allegro
My point was that if (when?) sea levels rise, there will not be a Panama City above water.
I never cared for the place myself…I have a hill top 900ft above sea level, that’s where you can find me
| 48 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:16:54pm |
re: #30 swamprat
No time for anti-Obama rhetoric; we’re discussing global warming.
swamprat -
Pray Tell - what does what I said have to do with President Obama?
-S-
| 49 |
austin_blue Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:17:15pm |
re: #44 Spare O’Lake
I was watching a TV replay yesterday of a recent debate on climate change. One of the interesting things was that the proponents (Monbiot and May) used tropical African nations as their examples for the worst case scenarios, but did not bother to mention any other geographical areas.
If I were advocating for AGW I would compile science-based predictions for effects of GW on various nations in order to drive home the need for international action.
Anyone seen any of this?
Good overview:
[Link: securityandclimate.cna.org…]
| 50 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:17:18pm |
re: #46 albusteve
nobody knows…it’s that simple, we are going into Doomsday blind of any timeline
The boffins should be throwing out some range of timelines, I just don’t know them.
| 51 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:18:01pm |
re: #44 Spare O’Lake
I was watching a TV replay yesterday of a recent debate on climate change. One of the interesting things was that the proponents (Monbiot and May) used tropical African nations as their examples for the worst case scenarios, but did not bother to mention any other geographical areas.
If I were advocating for AGW I would compile science-based predictions for effects of GW on various nations in order to drive home the need for international action.
Anyone seen any of this?
This is where i think it’s fair to say that the science isn’t good enough to be so accurate. Forecasting for the globe 100 years from today is tough enough. Forecasting by country 100 years from today…not so much, IMHO.
| 52 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:18:23pm |
re: #40 Dr. Shalit
Is certain Destruction? That is in fact the argument. Example, when I drive or ride I wear a seatbelt. The chance that I will be involved in a collision, let alone injured in one is small. If I believed destruction was certain, I wouldn’t ride, let alone drive.
I think evidence shows us that AGW will have some seriously negative environmental effects if it continues at this rate. My feeling is that whether it does or doesn’t, the damage we have been doing to ourselves and other species on the planet has been devastating in terms of pollution and general disregard. We’re doing big harm to the future of biological species, including ourselves, whether climate change is involved or not.
Add to that the political/economic aspect of being beholden to the ME for our out of control consumption of energy. I think dealing with all of the above - much of which has a common cause - to be something to address in a serious manner quickly. We’ve been farting around for decades while the problems increase exponentially.
| 53 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:18:34pm |
re: #50 Decatur Deb
The boffins should be throwing out some range of timelines, I just don’t know them.
Ludwig says 100-150 yrs before Miami is underwater
| 54 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:21:03pm |
re: #53 albusteve
Ludwig says 100-150 yrs before Miami is underwater
I’m more worried about the kind of conditions that would put 1/3 of the Chinese in movement.
| 55 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:21:08pm |
re: #53 albusteve
Ludwig says 100-150 yrs before Miami is underwater
which is at the aggressive end of the spectrum. not outside of the realm of possibility, tho.
| 56 |
iceweasel Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:22:07pm |
re: #44 Spare O’Lake
I was watching a TV replay yesterday of a recent debate on climate change. One of the interesting things was that the proponents (Monbiot and May) used tropical African nations as their examples for the worst case scenarios, but did not bother to mention any other geographical areas.
If I were advocating for AGW I would compile science-based predictions for effects of GW on various nations in order to drive home the need for international action.
Anyone seen any of this?
How did they use tropical Africa? In terms of the social unrest and fallout?
I ask because in considering some of the worst case scenarios, i often use Africa as a model— it’s a contemporary example of the sort of unrest we can expect when a massive diaspora is under way. (Famine, drought, etc leading to massive societal breakdown and population movement)
| 57 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:23:00pm |
re: #44 Spare O’Lake
I was watching a TV replay yesterday of a recent debate on climate change. One of the interesting things was that the proponents (Monbiot and May) used tropical African nations as their examples for the worst case scenarios, but did not bother to mention any other geographical areas.
If I were advocating for AGW I would compile science-based predictions for effects of GW on various nations in order to drive home the need for international action.
Anyone seen any of this?
An Inconvenient Truth. But will you watch it?
| 58 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:23:32pm |
The researchers report that fruit, vegetables, meat and milk produced closer to home rack up fewer petroleum-based transport miles than foods trucked cross country to your table. Yet despite the large distances involved—the average distance traveled for food in the U.S. is estimated at 4,000-5,000 miles —the large non-energy based greenhouse gas emissions associated with producing food make food production matter much more than distance traveled.
The authors suggest that eating less red meat and/or dairy products may be a more effective way for concerned citizens to lower their food-related climate impacts. They estimate that shifting to an entirely local diet would reduce the equivalent greenhouse gas emissions as driving 1,000 miles, while changing only one day per week’s meat and dairy-based calories to chicken, fish, or vegetables would have about the same impact. Shifting entirely from an average American diet to a vegetable-based one would reduce the same emissions as 8,000 miles driven per year.
Also, ditch the bottled water already. It’s municipal water, everybody knows it’s a scam. I don’t know why people are still wasting their money on it.
| 59 |
swamprat Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:23:42pm |
re: #48 Dr. Shalit
Light joke. What you said could be twisted into a rant against Obama, and by hyperbolic extension, a call for impeachment, revolution, or mixed dancing.
| 60 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:24:09pm |
re: #54 Decatur Deb
I’m more worried about the kind of conditions that would put 1/3 of the Chinese in movement.
I’m not worried about any of it, but WDW under water is a bit distressing
| 61 |
lightspeed Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:24:52pm |
Usually I have a great deal of respect for the choice of videos posted to this site, but the ones from this guy are simplistic and laughable. Even if you accept his premise that we can decide on a course of action without taking one side or another in the AGW debate, his present a series of false choices without considering that there are many more possibilties in between.
The most glaring of these is his description of destroying the economy in order to “solve” global warming. The problem here is that he makes it sound as if policies that would severely harm the economies of the world and plunge the world into global depression is just about wasting a little money and enduring a little hardship. This is so naive it is not even funny. If we go into a “worst case” depression, that means starvation, disease, and wars. It means people die, possibly many, many people. He kinda leaves that out, doesn’t he?
Second, he assumes that choosing the “right’ path, spending gobs of money to “solve” the problem of global warming, will actually work. This is far from a given. So far, I have’t seen a single proposal that is either workable or effective in reducing carbon emissions any significant amount. So, he doesn’t consider the possibility that we will burn money trying to solve AGW, fail, and be much worse off than we are now.
I don’t think we should do nothing. I believe we need to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels for many reasons. But, as of now, there is no viable alternative. Putting flourescent bulbs in my house, fueling my car with corn and becoming a vegetarian won’t do shit for the planet. I am not going along with all of the BS solutions our leaders are promoting, just because we have to do “something.”
| 62 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:25:18pm |
re: #52 allegro
I think evidence shows us that AGW will have some seriously negative environmental effects if it continues at this rate. My feeling is that whether it does or doesn’t, the damage we have been doing to ourselves and other species on the planet has been devastating in terms of pollution and general disregard. We’re doing big harm to the future of biological species, including ourselves, whether climate change is involved or not.
Add to that the political/economic aspect of being beholden to the ME for our out of control consumption of energy. I think dealing with all of the above - much of which has a common cause - to be something to address in a serious manner quickly. We’ve been farting around for decades while the problems increase exponentially.
Thought the rate yielded 1 - 2 degrees Celcius Average warming by 2100. As this is 2009 last time I looked at a calendar, I suspect we have some time to find answers before things get out of hand without crippling ourselves. Pollution Control, yes. Conservation, yes. Suicide, no. And, those who have read me know I walk the walk, small car, bicycle, cfl lamps, winter thermostat set at 62 degrees and so on.
-S-
| 63 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:25:19pm |
re: #58 Killgore Trout
Shifting entirely from an average American diet to a vegetable-based one would reduce the same emissions as 8,000 miles driven per year.
BTW, that does not mean going vegetarian. It means eating smaller portions of meat and larger portions of vegetables.
| 64 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:25:23pm |
re: #58 Killgore Trout
Also, ditch the bottled water already. It’s municipal water, everybody knows it’s a scam. I don’t know why people are still wasting their money on it.
I’ve added one vegetarian day to my weekly diet, and I might add more.
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:25:40pm |
re: #36 albusteve
there is a town in the Fla panhandle called Panama City
Found a quote of 200,000 Canadians expected to do a stay of 3 months + in our warmer climes.
| 66 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:26:28pm |
re: #58 Killgore Trout
I try to buy local when I can, more because I like to support local businesses. Unfortunately, there’s not always a choice. Second choice is state products, 3rd is U.S. and then imports, mostly as in fruit.
We’re lazy. We have have a Britta filter on the faucet :)
| 68 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:28:06pm |
re: #62 Dr. Shalit
Pollution Control, yes. Conservation, yes. Suicide, no. And, those who have read me know I walk the walk, small car, bicycle, cfl lamps, winter thermostat set at 62 degrees and so on.
Then we are in agreement. ;)
| 69 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:28:15pm |
re: #63 Killgore Trout
BTW, that does not mean going vegetarian. It means eating smaller portions of meat and larger portions of vegetables.
kows are a bad investment…reduce kows as food…kows are harmful all you Big Mac freaks
| 70 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:28:34pm |
re: #64 Sharmuta
I’ve added one vegetarian day to my weekly diet, and I might add more.
It’s easy once you get the hang of it. I usually cook a steak or pork chop once a week or so but I make it last 4-5 days or more. Most “normal” Americans would devour it in one sitting.
| 71 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:28:43pm |
re: #60 albusteve
I’m not worried about any of it, but WDW under water is a bit distressing
How long can a mouse tread water?
| 73 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:29:38pm |
re: #65 Decatur Deb
Found a quote of 200,000 Canadians expected to do a stay of 3 months + in our warmer climes.
they will have to go elsewhere…maybe Cairo
| 74 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:30:25pm |
| 75 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:30:47pm |
re: #56 iceweasel
How did they use tropical Africa? In terms of the social unrest and fallout?
I ask because in considering some of the worst case scenarios, i often use Africa as a model— it’s a contemporary example of the sort of unrest we can expect when a massive diaspora is under way. (Famine, drought, etc leading to massive societal breakdown and population movement)
Massive societal breakdown, famine, drought, etc. is BAU in Africa. When was Africa ever not a basket case?
| 76 |
solomonpanting Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:31:03pm |
“everyone talks about the weather but no one does anything about it” is about to change, I hope.
| 77 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:31:08pm |
re: #69 albusteve
kows are a bad investment…reduce kows as food…kows are harmful all you Big Mac freaks
They are also raised in fairly lousy conditions. I prefer lamb as a red meat anyways, more flavor and raised much better. You have some nice alternatives near you. Buffalo is great and there are also ostrich farms near you. Ostrich burgers are really fantastic.
| 78 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:31:15pm |
| 79 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:31:31pm |
re: #63 Killgore Trout
BTW, that does not mean going vegetarian. It means eating smaller portions of meat and larger portions of vegetables.
Going veggie/local is much healthier on the environment, but I was a veggie for 5 years and couldn’t make it work. Lots of bouts of anemia. I was a vegan for about 5 months. Now there’s some dedication.
| 80 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:31:57pm |
re: #70 Killgore Trout
It’s easy once you get the hang of it. I usually cook a steak or pork chop once a week or so but I make it last 4-5 days or more. Most “normal” Americans would devour it in one sitting.
You can make a pork chop last 4-5 days?
| 81 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:33:06pm |
re: #62 Dr. Shalit
Thought the rate yielded 1 - 2 degrees Celcius Average warming by 2100. As this is 2009 last time I looked at a calendar, I suspect we have some time to find answers before things get out of hand without crippling ourselves. Pollution Control, yes. Conservation, yes. Suicide, no. And, those who have read me know I walk the walk, small car, bicycle, cfl lamps, winter thermostat set at 62 degrees and so on.
-S-
The trick is that the pols and voters must recognize and address GW in the right moment. Earlier risks greater error, but later is more drastic and expensive.
| 82 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:33:11pm |
re: #63 Killgore Trout
BTW, that does not mean going vegetarian. It means eating smaller portions of meat and larger portions of vegetables.
I’m trying to get Zedushka to eat more veggies and less meat. I found that if I cook a nice thick vegetable soup and bake some fresh baguettes to dip in it, Zedushka forgets all about wanting a burger.
| 83 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:33:26pm |
re: #80 Gus 802
You can make a pork chop last 4-5 days?
As my late husband chided me when we were first married, “Meat is not a condiment!” If I eat meat, it’s in small amounts with a lot of veggies and other stuff.
| 84 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:34:00pm |
re: #77 Killgore Trout
They are also raised in fairly lousy conditions. I prefer lamb as a red meat anyways, more flavor and raised much better. You have some nice alternatives near you. Buffalo is great and there are also ostrich farms near you. Ostrich burgers are really fantastic.
I eat very little meat…gives me a bad vibe…meat is a loser, unless you buy it locally which I do…cow, chickens and pigs I buy right here close to home and freeze it
| 85 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:34:12pm |
re: #77 Killgore Trout
They are also raised in fairly lousy conditions. I prefer lamb as a red meat anyways, more flavor and raised much better. You have some nice alternatives near you. Buffalo is great and there are also ostrich farms near you. Ostrich burgers are really fantastic.
When we eat red meat, we usually eat Maverick Beef or sometimes bison, although it’s a little gamey for me. Our meat protein is mostly fish, snapper, roughy… not a big fan of the dark fish.
| 86 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:34:41pm |
| 87 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:36:03pm |
re: #86 albusteve
Pigzilla…5 pound chops
Yeah, I was trying to figure out how big they come. The ones I’ve purchased have been rather small.
| 88 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:36:26pm |
If we actually start to believe that we are in fact doomed to pass the tipping point and to experience the worst case global warming scenarios in the near future, I bet it will become very difficult to buy guns and ammo.
In addition to arming heavily, should we also be buying real estate and building bunkers up in Alaska, Yukon, Nunavut?
As the GW proponents gear up to scare the crap out of folks for their own good, they could easily spawn a global boom in survivalist goods and services. Like back in the 50’s and early 60’s but 100 times worse.
And if this stuff starts to happen, how long will it be before the government steps in to regulate the stockpiling and restore order.
BTW, what was that movie with Chris Walken where the family had the time-locked underground bunker?
| 89 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:36:33pm |
re: #85 marjoriemoon
“…bison, although it’s a little gamey for me.”
Marinate it in buttermilk for a couple of hours. The difference is amazing.
| 90 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:37:15pm |
re: #79 marjoriemoon
I couldn’t go vegetarian. Takes way too much dedication and I really like food and cooking.
| 91 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:37:53pm |
re: #70 Killgore Trout
It’s easy once you get the hang of it. I usually cook a steak or pork chop once a week or so but I make it last 4-5 days or more. Most “normal” Americans would devour it in one sitting.
where do you get the balance of your protein requirement from?
| 92 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:38:01pm |
re: #89 allegro
“…bison, although it’s a little gamey for me.”
Marinate it in buttermilk for a couple of hours. The difference is amazing.
Can you put something in the LGF cookbook for that?
I would like to try it!
| 93 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:38:30pm |
re: #79 marjoriemoon
Going veggie/local is much healthier on the environment, but I was a veggie for 5 years and couldn’t make it work. Lots of bouts of anemia. I was a vegan for about 5 months. Now there’s some dedication.
I was a vegetarian for a few years, but never went vegan. I love my cheese too much. And yogurt. And how could I live without milk chocolate?
| 94 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:38:53pm |
re: #90 Killgore Trout
I couldn’t go vegetarian. Takes way too much dedication and I really like food and cooking.
We are evolved to eat everything that’s slower or stupider than we are.
| 95 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:39:08pm |
re: #89 allegro
“…bison, although it’s a little gamey for me.”
Marinate it in buttermilk for a couple of hours. The difference is amazing.
Not kosher.
| 96 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:39:44pm |
re: #92 Floral Giraffe
Can you put something in the LGF cookbook for that?
I would like to try it!
Sure. I was married to a hunter. I do great game. Where would I send it?
| 97 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:39:54pm |
re: #89 allegro
“…bison, although it’s a little gamey for me.”
Marinate it in buttermilk for a couple of hours. The difference is amazing.
Really? I’m not a fan of venison for the same reason. Mr. Moon will mix the maverick and bison together which is tasty.
| 98 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:40:13pm |
re: #94 Decatur Deb
We are evolved to eat everything that’s slower or stupider than we are.
I’m trying to imagine a cow that can gallop at 70 mph.
| 99 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:40:27pm |
| 100 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:40:28pm |
re: #80 Gus 802
You can make a pork chop last 4-5 days?
It’s actually pretty easy. Eat more vegetables. Slice meat thinly, take small bites and savor it.
I highly recommend reading In Defense of Food: An Eater’s Manifesto .
It’s a much healthier way of eating. It’s also much cheaper.
| 101 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:40:33pm |
re: #94 Decatur Deb
We are evolved to eat everything that’s slower or stupider than we are.
What does that leave out?
| 102 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:40:41pm |
re: #57 marjoriemoon
I’ve seen it 3 times.
I was interested in a respectable scientific publication.
| 103 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:41:20pm |
re: #82 Alouette
Nothing can beat homemade fresh bread.
| 104 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:41:40pm |
re: #93 Sharmuta
I was a vegetarian for a few years, but never went vegan. I love my cheese too much. And yogurt. And how could I live without milk chocolate?
Or chocolate milk…those two words can be used interchangeably in my house…
| 105 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:41:44pm |
re: #97 marjoriemoon
Really? I’m not a fan of venison for the same reason. Mr. Moon will mix the maverick and bison together which is tasty.
venison is a delicacy…and it’s just standing around waiting to be killed and eaten
| 106 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:41:46pm |
| 107 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:42:10pm |
| 108 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:42:44pm |
re: #96 allegro
Sure. I was married to a hunter. I do great game. Where would I send it?
You can email it to Reine, or if you post it here, I’ll see that she gets it.
| 109 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:43:00pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
It’s actually pretty easy. Eat more vegetables. Slice meat thinly, take small bites and savor it.
I highly recommend reading In Defense of Food: An Eater’s Manifesto .
It’s a much healthier way of eating. It’s also much cheaper.
Thanks.
I can make a pork chop last 5 minutes. But, I don’t fly anywhere. Haven’t taken a vacation in almost a decade. Don’t own any stocks, bonds, IRAs, etc. And I drive a small (but fast) European car. :)
| 110 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:45:03pm |
re: #106 Decatur Deb
Not much, including Glenn Beck, in a pinch.
In a pinch is right. My guess is he’d be greasy and gamey.
My folks keep a place in nowhere, Ohio. venison, as you might guess, is as easy to procure as walking on to a farm and taking down a cow. the whitetail deer are thick up there.
| 111 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:45:10pm |
re: #91 Aceofwhat?
where do you get the balance of your protein requirement from?
Eggs, fish meat, nuts, beans. I love soybeans lightly boiled in salted water. Better than chips!
| 112 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:45:45pm |
Venison:
Cut venison (or Bison or Javelina) roast into large chunks. Soak in buttermilk for 3 hours or more (overnight is good too). Add sliced mushrooms, chopped onions and garlic; place in baking bag. Bake at about 350 for about an hour. Add salt and pepper to taste. Delicious and not gamey.
| 113 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:45:59pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Eggs, fish meat, nuts, beans. I love soybeans lightly boiled in salted water. Better than chips!
Did you give that recipe for the cookbook???
| 114 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:46:04pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
…Of course. I haven’t had a pork chop in over a year.
| 115 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:46:17pm |
re: #109 Gus 802
Thanks.
I can make a pork chop last 5 minutes. But, I don’t fly anywhere. Haven’t taken a vacation in almost a decade. Don’t own any stocks, bonds, IRAs, etc. And I drive a small (but fast) European car. :)
no vacations in a decade?…what’s the point of it all then?…if all you do is work to pay bills and feed your family, something went amiss somewhere…unless of course you don’t want vacations
| 116 |
solomonpanting Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:46:25pm |
re: #98 Gus 802
I’m trying to imagine a cow that can gallop at 70 mph.
The Honda Holstein has a top speed of 75mph and runs on non-fat (after refining) and yields 3 gpm.
| 117 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:46:52pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Eggs, fish meat, nuts, beans. I love soybeans lightly boiled in salted water. Better than chips!
Don’t forget mushrooms!
| 118 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:47:04pm |
re: #33 Decatur Deb
Does this mean no more snowbirds at Panama City Beach?
Timeshares on Hudson Bay?
| 119 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:47:54pm |
re: #115 albusteve
no vacations in a decade?…what’s the point of it all then?…if all you do is work to pay bills and feed your family, something went amiss somewhere…unless of course you don’t want vacations
I would love a vacation. I’ve just been sputtering along. Old stick in the mud that I am.
| 120 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:48:03pm |
re: #111 Killgore Trout
Eggs, fish meat, nuts, beans. I love soybeans lightly boiled in salted water. Better than chips!
Oh - for some odd reason when you said meat i thought you included fish. duh. sorry. like i said apropos of sustainable meats on a previous thread, i love me some pacific sardines.
| 121 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:48:33pm |
re: #113 Floral Giraffe
Did you give that recipe for the cookbook???
Yes. My recipe was called Happy Lucky all Week Porkchop Udon Noodle Party. Home made noodles and a pork chop will last all week. You won’t go hungry.
| 122 |
Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:48:44pm |
re: #18 iceweasel
We are the hollow men
…
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
eliot
I love the smell of napalm early in the morning.
Or we could have Robert Frost’s take on the end
Fire and IceSome say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
| 123 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:49:08pm |
re: #119 Gus 802
I would love a vacation. I’ve just been sputtering along. Old stick in the mud that I am.
you are missing out bro…I will say no more
| 124 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:49:48pm |
re: #93 Sharmuta
I was a vegetarian for a few years, but never went vegan. I love my cheese too much. And yogurt. And how could I live without milk chocolate?
I got a terrible rash on my arms. Went to a couple dermatologists and other than topical ointment, they said they’d have to perform a barrage of allergy tests. I ate cheese and yogurt every day so I cut it out. In 24 hours, the rash began to clear. It took about 4-5 months of no diary to completely clear it and then I was able to slowly start again. Then I got anemic. heh Wasn’t for me.
| 125 |
Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:50:46pm |
And of course there is W.B.Yeats
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
| 126 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:51:34pm |
re: #105 albusteve
venison is a delicacy…and it’s just standing around waiting to be killed and eaten
Ack!!
| 127 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:51:57pm |
re: #124 marjoriemoon
I’m back to enjoying meat, so it’s unlikely I’ll go completely vegetarian again, but adding a day or two isn’t too difficult.
| 128 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:52:30pm |
re: #124 marjoriemoon
Then I got anemic. heh Wasn’t for me.
It does appear that hemi-iron is a necessity for humans whose bodies are designed to be omnivorous. I don’t know of any replacement for it. There are also the B vitamins that are found in meant for which there is no other dietary substitute.
| 130 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:53:38pm |
I saw it as my solemn duty as a parent to take my children out across America and show them what this country is all about and the people in it…jus me
| 131 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:54:03pm |
re: #112 allegro
I sent it to Reine, THANK YOU!
| 132 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:54:25pm |
re: #130 albusteve
I saw it as my solemn duty as a parent to take my children out across America and show them what this country is all about and the people in it…jus me
Hey, just in case…I’m single. No kids.
| 133 |
Bagua Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:54:57pm |
One positive result from the AGW issue that transcends any debate on its fundamentals or predictions, is that it starts the process of human kind considering the state of the world in periods of centuries.
This forward looking perspective may get some things right and somethings wrong, but one thinks the ultimate result will be positive for future generation.
| 134 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:55:27pm |
re: #132 Gus 802
Hey, just in case…I’m single. No kids.
get yer fat ass down to NM and I’ll buy you a taco…America is an awesome place
| 135 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:55:38pm |
Biggest contributor to CO2 in the atmosphere is beer production.
Best way to reduce CO2 emissions it to stop drinking beer!
//
| 136 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:55:54pm |
re: #127 Sharmuta
I’m back to enjoying meat, so it’s unlikely I’ll go completely vegetarian again, but adding a day or two isn’t too difficult.
I couldn’t walk by a BBQ, it smelled so good. I craved burgers for years lol Packaged meat pretty well grossed me out.
| 137 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 5:57:05pm |
re: #128 allegro
It does appear that hemi-iron is a necessity for humans whose bodies are designed to be omnivorous. I don’t know of any replacement for it. There are also the B vitamins that are found in meant for which there is no other dietary substitute.
In addition, it’s just plain delicious. I am to meat as Heston was to firearms…you can have mine when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
I’d prefer to make a no-plastic contribution. Either not purchasing plastics (can’t remember the last time i bought bottled water) or replacing plastic containers with corn plastics…it’s amazing how much plastic i just don’t need if i stay aware of what i’m buying. Plastics are 10% of our annual oil consumption unless i miss my mark
| 138 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:00:09pm |
re: #137 Aceofwhat?
I bring my own canvas bags to the grocery store, and I get a per bag discount when I do.
| 139 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:00:10pm |
re: #137 Aceofwhat?
In addition, it’s just plain delicious. I am to meat as Heston was to firearms…you can have mine when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
You sound like my late husband. He didn’t just want to eat meat, he wanted to kill it and dress it as well - no one was a greater master of cooking it either. I actually respected that tremendously. He was willing to get his hands bloody, respecting the animals he took. I think if we all had to do that, it would limit the consumption of meat tremendously.
| 140 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:00:43pm |
eating is a bad habit…eating lambs and baby cows is disgusting
| 141 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:01:31pm |
re: #137 Aceofwhat?
In addition, it’s just plain delicious. I am to meat as Heston was to firearms…you can have mine when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
I’d prefer to make a no-plastic contribution. Either not purchasing plastics (can’t remember the last time i bought bottled water) or replacing plastic containers with corn plastics…it’s amazing how much plastic i just don’t need if i stay aware of what i’m buying. Plastics are 10% of our annual oil consumption unless i miss my mark
I use the plastic grocery bags as garbage bags and don’t buy plastic garbage bags. Inherited one or two bottled water bottles that I use as a “canteen” and just fill it up with cold tap water.
| 142 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:01:58pm |
re: #140 albusteve
eating is a bad habit…eating lambs and baby cows is disgusting
How the industry treats all of the animals raised for human consumption is beyond disgusting.
| 144 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:03:12pm |
| 145 |
Stuart Leviton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:03:20pm |
piosenki o koncu swiata Czeslaw Milosz”
Song on the End of the World by Czeslaw Milosz
On the day the world ends
A bee circles a clover,
A Fisherman mends a glimmering net.
Happy porpoises jump in the sea,
By the rainspout young sparrows are playing
And the snake is gold-skinned as it it should always be.
On the day the world ends
Women walk through fields under their umbrellas
A drunkard grows sleepy at the edge of a lawn,
Vegetable peddlers shout in the street
And a yellow-sailed boat comes nearer the island,
The voice of a violin lasts in the air
And leads into a starry night.
And those who expected lightning and thunder
Are disappointed.
And those who expected signs and archangels’ trumps
Do not believe it is happening now.
As long as the sun and the moon are above,
As long as the bumblebee visits a rose
As long as rosy infants are born
No one believes it is happening now.
Only a white-haired old man, who would be a prophet,
Yet is not a prophet, for he’s much too busy,
Repeats while he binds his tomatoes:
No other end of the world there will be,
No other end of the world there will be.
| 146 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:03:41pm |
| 147 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:04:33pm |
re: #142 allegro
How the industry treats all of the animals raised for human consumption is beyond disgusting.
and so energy intensive it’s beyond insane to eat manufactured beef etc…the last pig I bought, I watched him grow up, watched him killed and filled my coolers with his remains…yummmy!
| 148 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:05:01pm |
re: #49 austin_blue
Thanks. Interesting but not the level of detail that I was looking for…it may not be available.
| 149 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:05:25pm |
re: #128 allegro
It does appear that hemi-iron is a necessity for humans whose bodies are designed to be omnivorous. I don’t know of any replacement for it. There are also the B vitamins that are found in meant for which there is no other dietary substitute.
Some folks swear you can maintain a healthy, all meat-free diet. Of course, I became a veggie not for health reasons, but for what they say “moral” reasons. It’s bad to kill animals. I became a member of PETA and went veggie.
Back in the olden days (grins) with no public internet, PETA operated by mail. I found out that the pictures of mutilated cows depicted in their brochures were not of U.S. slaughter houses, but those in South or Central America.
Then they sent me a convoluted story about saving some minks from a farm. Some PETA fellow stole the minks and they wanted money for his defense. But the story was odd and didn’t make sense. Anyway, that was the end of PETA for me.
| 150 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:05:52pm |
re: #147 albusteve
and so energy intensive it’s beyond insane to eat manufactured beef etc…the last pig I bought, I watched him grow up, watched him killed and filled my coolers with his remains…yummmy!
OMG. I would have made him a pet. I could never eat an animal I had a relationship with. But then… I feel that way about lobsters.
| 151 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:06:08pm |
re: #142 allegro
How the industry treats all of the animals raised for human consumption is beyond disgusting.
Not all. I made the switch to free range chicken and eggs. I buy lamb instead of beef because it’s not as intensively farmed. I’m exploring my pork options and will visit a few local butcher shops to see if I can find affordable ethically reared pork.
| 152 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:06:24pm |
re: #135 Gus 802
Biggest contributor to CO2 in the atmosphere is beer production.
Best way to reduce CO2 emissions it to stop drinking beer!
//
Kill me now!
| 153 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:06:50pm |
| 154 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:07:14pm |
re: #151 Killgore Trout
I only do free range myself. I’ve seen caged egg operations and it’s horrifying.
| 155 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:07:19pm |
re: #147 albusteve
BTW, how are your pain issues these days?
| 156 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:07:21pm |
re: #142 allegro
How the industry treats all of the animals raised for human consumption is beyond disgusting.
I think chickens are probably worse than cows.
| 157 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:08:15pm |
re: #147 albusteve
and so energy intensive it’s beyond insane to eat manufactured beef etc…the last pig I bought, I watched him grow up, watched him killed and filled my coolers with his remains…yummmy!
Daughter #1 volunteered at the local museum/farm/village. The day Sugar and Spice disappeared from the pen she became a (temporary) vegetarian.
| 158 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:08:23pm |
| 159 |
iheartbolton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:09:00pm |
Is that video supposed to be a farce?
I don’t see how the deniers are supposed to be like the creationists.
That argument is exactly one of those dumb reasons to believe in god. Whats the worst that can happen, no god. If there is, you’ll surely be in hell.
wow
A little economic harm is not a big deal?
If you roll back the industrial revolution, life expectancies will also roll back.
Anyone know what LE’s were in 1850?
Is it useless to point out that a a hurricane in Burma kills 100,000 and a hurricane in NY kills maybe 5?
| 160 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:09:36pm |
re: #153 albusteve
go ahead, fool yourself…a mans appetite is a hard thing to deny…veal is a loser
why? some of the cheaper cuts of lamb are my favorite…fresh grilled shoulder…so much taste
| 161 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:10:15pm |
Many years ago, I was at my cousin’s home where they milk-fed calves that had been rejected by their mothers or orphaned. I had a ball bottle feeding those calves when we visited. About a year later, we were there and my cousin did a barbecue. Just as I was about to take a bite of a big, juicy grilled burger, my cousin’s little 4 year old daughter pointed to my burger and announced, “That’s Freckles!” - one of the calves I had bottle fed during my last visit.
That’s when I turned vegetarian.
| 162 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:11:36pm |
Actually it wasn’t that killing animals for food is bad, it was more about the poor conditions they lived in or inhumane killing. Although some folks think killing any animal is bad, I was never really in that camp.
| 163 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:11:46pm |
re: #150 allegro
OMG. I would have made him a pet. I could never eat an animal I had a relationship with. But then… I feel that way about lobsters.
my rich inlaws raised beef but didn’t have the guts to go out there and shoot them in the head to kill them…they wanted me to do it for them, which I did, but I still resent their phony attitude…they wanted a gentlemans farm that raised their own premier beef but didn’t want to get their hands dirty with the slaughter and dressing part
| 164 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:11:55pm |
| 165 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:11:55pm |
re: #88 Spare O’Lake
If we actually start to believe that we are in fact doomed to pass the tipping point and to experience the worst case global warming scenarios in the near future, I bet it will become very difficult to buy guns and ammo.
In addition to arming heavily, should we also be buying real estate and building bunkers up in Alaska, Yukon, Nunavut?As the GW proponents gear up to scare the crap out of folks for their own good, they could easily spawn a global boom in survivalist goods and services. Like back in the 50’s and early 60’s but 100 times worse.
And if this stuff starts to happen, how long will it be before the government steps in to regulate the stockpiling and restore order.BTW, what was that movie with Chris Walken where the family had the time-locked underground bunker?
It was called Blast From The Past. Though Walkin appeared in it, it actually starred Brendan Fraser and Alicia Silverstone.
| 166 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:12:30pm |
re: #11 Alouette
Charles mention the Kindle and a book that he’s reading. Does that mean this is a book thread?
I’m into John Connolly’s Charlie Parker mystery series. I took one out of the library, thinking it was a Michael Connelly book, and it way surpasses Harry Bosch.
I just read some reviews of John Connolly’s Charlie Parker series - are they as gory as the reviews say they are?
| 167 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:12:52pm |
re: #149 marjoriemoon
I always found the moral veggie argument a little off. Sure, if it means they live in terrible conditions, i get it. but some folks (not you, i know) just think that killing an animal to eat it is bad. because, you know, no other carnivores kill and eat animals…sheesh.
| 168 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:13:11pm |
re: #161 allegro
Many years ago, I was at my cousin’s home where they milk-fed calves that had been rejected by their mothers or orphaned. I had a ball bottle feeding those calves when we visited. About a year later, we were there and my cousin did a barbecue. Just as I was about to take a bite of a big, juicy grilled burger, my cousin’s little 4 year old daughter pointed to my burger and announced, “That’s Freckles!” - one of the calves I had bottle fed during my last visit.
That’s when I turned vegetarian.
That’ll do it!
| 169 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:13:39pm |
re: #163 albusteve
they wanted a gentlemans farm that raised their own premier beef but didn’t want to get their hands dirty with the slaughter and dressing part
My point exactly. We have grown so far removed from the reality of Nature, that we have lost respect for it and the other creatures we depend on for our survival.
| 170 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:13:40pm |
re: #165 Dark_Falcon
It was called Blast From The Past. Though Walkin appeared in it, it actually starred Brendan Fraser and Alicia Silverstone.
“starred Brendan Frasier” is nearly a contradiction in terms!
| 171 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:14:27pm |
re: #80 Gus 802
You can make a pork chop last 4-5 days?
He can, and it’s in Volume 2.
or, should I say, will be in volume 2.
| 172 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:15:01pm |
re: #171 reine.de.tout
He can, and it’s in Volume 2.
or, should I say, will be in volume 2.
Must be a lot of vegetables. ;)
| 173 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:15:05pm |
re: #169 allegro
My point exactly. We have grown so far removed from the reality of Nature, that we have lost respect for it and the other creatures we depend on for our survival.
Eating meat is part of our nature.
| 174 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:15:38pm |
re: #155 Killgore Trout
BTW, how are your pain issues these days?
every day I take vicodin…every day, and I’m sick to death of it…I’ve had an ongoing infection for two weeks now, so I take piles of antibiotics on top of that…my dream is to be able to walk a few short miles…people that can walk don’t know how good they have it…thanks for asking bro…I’m healing but it will be spring before there is a substantial improvement
| 175 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:16:22pm |
re: #170 Aceofwhat?
“starred Brendan Frasier” is nearly a contradiction in terms!
He’s not very good, I agree.
| 176 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:16:32pm |
re: #167 Aceofwhat?
I always found the moral veggie argument a little off. Sure, if it means they live in terrible conditions, i get it. but some folks (not you, i know) just think that killing an animal to eat it is bad. because, you know, no other carnivores kill and eat animals…sheesh.
Right and then there’s some of the eastern religions, Hindus, Buddhists that believe in reincarnation and karma. Who am I to judge :)
Kosher meat is raised and killed humanely. And you can taste the difference.
| 177 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:17:14pm |
re: #174 albusteve
every day I take vicodin…every day, and I’m sick to death of it…I’ve had an ongoing infection for two weeks now, so I take piles of antibiotics on top of that…my dream is to be able to walk a few short miles…people that can walk don’t know how good they have it…thanks for asking bro…I’m healing but it will be spring before there is a substantial improvement
It’s tougher to get well in winter, that’s a fact. You can’t get outside and exercise.
| 178 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:17:20pm |
re: #173 Sharmuta
Eating meat is part of our nature.
I can see the day when we progress beyond meat eating. It’s only been a couple of hundred thousand years, and we’ve almost eliminated cannibalism.
| 179 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:19:40pm |
re: #174 albusteve
{Bish} I would play you a song, but you can’t open videos. :(
| 180 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:20:20pm |
re: #173 Sharmuta
Eating meat is part of our nature.
Yes, it is. More than that, is is part of our biological necessity, in that humans are omnivorous creatures. The problem comes, IMO, when we are so removed from the realities of Nature, that we either forget, or never learn, that we are part of an entire biosphere. That meat in the produce section came from living animals. I believe we owe them at least the understanding and respect to treat them humanely, and with thanks, for what they give up so that we survive.
| 181 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:20:54pm |
re: #149 marjoriemoon
Some folks swear you can maintain a healthy, all meat-free diet. Of course, I became a veggie not for health reasons, but for what they say “moral” reasons. It’s bad to kill animals. I became a member of PETA and went veggie.
Back in the olden days (grins) with no public internet, PETA operated by mail. I found out that the pictures of mutilated cows depicted in their brochures were not of U.S. slaughter houses, but those in South or Central America.
Then they sent me a convoluted story about saving some minks from a farm. Some PETA fellow stole the minks and they wanted money for his defense. But the story was odd and didn’t make sense. Anyway, that was the end of PETA for me.
PETA chooses their battles. They will swarm a Jewish “kapparot” ceremony, but they’re nowhere to be seen on Eid Al Adha.
| 182 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:21:04pm |
re: #178 Decatur Deb
I can see the day when we progress beyond meat eating. It’s only been a couple of hundred thousand years, and we’ve almost eliminated cannibalism.
It’s instinct. It will take a long time for that instinct to works its way out of the human sub-conscience.
| 184 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:22:06pm |
re: #150 allegro
OMG. I would have made him a pet. I could never eat an animal I had a relationship with. But then… I feel that way about lobsters.
But could you shock an animal that you had a relationship with? I like listening to peter gabriel during meat-y discussions…
| 186 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:22:55pm |
re: #172 Gus 802
Must be a lot of vegetables. ;)
I’m not tellin’!
btw - gus802 would you use the e- mail address at the cookbook blog and send me an email, please?
| 187 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:23:07pm |
re: #179 Sharmuta
{Bish} I would play you a song, but you can’t open videos. :(
no matter what else…Ilovuman!
| 188 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:23:56pm |
re: #181 Alouette
PETA chooses their battles. They will swarm a Jewish “kapparot” ceremony, but they’re nowhere to be seen on Eid Al Adha.
They leave Muslim ceremonies alone for the same reason most activists do. Mess with a Christian or Jewish ritual and the worst you get is protests and bad PR, mess with a Muslim ritual and people die in the subsequent riots and terrorism.
| 189 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:24:09pm |
| 190 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:24:09pm |
re: #185 Sharmuta
I love the Lion King. Why would I be offended?
| 191 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:24:15pm |
| 192 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:24:54pm |
re: #167 Aceofwhat?
I always found the moral veggie argument a little off. Sure, if it means they live in terrible conditions, i get it. but some folks (not you, i know) just think that killing an animal to eat it is bad. because, you know, no other carnivores kill and eat animals…sheesh.
It’s funny, years ago a read some vegan article on why our bodies are not made to eat meat. The size of our molars, the length of our intestines. They compared us to the big cats, tigers, leopards. Apparently they weren’t aware that we aren’t carnivores. Crazy kids…
| 193 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:25:22pm |
re: #188 Dark_Falcon
They leave Muslim ceremonies alone for the same reason most activists do. Mess with a Christian or Jewish ritual and the worst you get is protests and bad PR, mess with a Muslim ritual and people die in the subsequent riots and terrorism.
Yep. i hate the smell of hypocrisy in the evening. it’s worse than hippie…
| 194 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:25:58pm |
re: #186 reine.de.tout
I’m not tellin’!
btw - gus802 would you use the e- mail address at the cookbook blog and send me an email, please?
OK, done.
| 195 |
LotharBot Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:26:07pm |
re: #19 jayzee
I like that he points out the flawed logic in the original video. Like I said, this is a more compelling argument.
Yeah. The previous video was almost painful to sit through, but this one is a far better argument and it’s presented in a more entertaining way. He moved away from simply “this is really bad” to “this is both really bad AND really likely”, which makes it a far better argument for action. And he wore an awesome hat.
I’d love to see a followup video that looks at the cost-benefit analysis of various possible actions. Charles recently posted a vid about the farce that is Cap+Trade, clearly demonstrating that it’s a poor solution; does anyone know of good vids that detail other proposed solutions and the tradeoffs involved in them?
| 196 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:26:14pm |
re: #192 marjoriemoon
It’s funny, years ago a read some vegan article on why our bodies are not made to eat meat. The size of our molars, the length of our intestines. They compared us to the big cats, tigers, leopards. Apparently they weren’t aware that we aren’t carnivores. Crazy kids…
Ha! Did any of them compare us to the ape family, or was that a step beyond their intellectual heft?
| 197 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:26:15pm |
| 198 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:26:45pm |
re: #181 Alouette
PETA chooses their battles. They will swarm a Jewish “kapparot” ceremony, but they’re nowhere to be seen on Eid Al Adha.
They’ve always been a pretty sleazy organization, any way you spin it. Even before the internet. I mean, I can respect someone who wishes to respect animals. It’s something I actually do! Respect animals… but they go for that shock value as if the real message is meaningless without it.
| 199 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:26:49pm |
re: #178 Decatur Deb
I can see the day when we progress beyond meat eating. It’s only been a couple of hundred thousand years, and we’ve almost eliminated cannibalism.
These would make a good alternative…
[Link: www.jerusalemrestaurant.com…]
| 200 |
Bagua Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:27:21pm |
| 201 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:28:00pm |
re: #196 Aceofwhat?
Ha! Did any of them compare us to the ape family, or was that a step beyond their intellectual heft?
I know I use my canines only for opening pistachios.
| 202 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:28:27pm |
Great, now I want a pork chop, gyros, falafel, egg rolls, unagi, cheese cake, twice cooked pork…
| 203 |
Racer X Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:28:29pm |
If we are not supposed to eat meat, how come animals are so delicious?
| 204 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:28:44pm |
| 205 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:29:27pm |
re: #193 Aceofwhat?
Yep. i hate the smell of hypocrisy in the evening. it’s worse than hippie…
That’s not hypocrisy you’re smelling, its fear. Most activist are brave when the worst they face is a beating and maybe a short jail sentence. When the worst they face is to be beheaded or blown up, most of them sit down and shut up.
| 206 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:29:50pm |
re: #199 Gus 802
These would make a good alternative…
[Link: www.jerusalemrestaurant.com…]
a good supplement. animal proteins have special components that falafa juuust doesn’t quite provide. (love the stuff, don’t get me wrong)
sharmuta was right. we’re better off figuring out how to embrace our inner omnivore more sustainably than trying to deny our inner omnivore.
| 207 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:30:09pm |
re: #199 Gus 802
Bet I’m the only male goy in my town who makes his own “hommos”. Finding hyssop is a pain in lower Alabama.
| 208 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:32:16pm |
re: #196 Aceofwhat?
Ha! Did any of them compare us to the ape family, or was that a step beyond their intellectual heft?
I never got that far!
| 209 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:33:09pm |
Thankfully I’m part Italian, so I know I can eat really awesome food with no animals in it. Pass the gnocchi in pesto sauce.
| 210 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:33:32pm |
re: #203 Racer X
If we are not supposed to eat meat, how come animals are so delicious?
Mr. Moon has that on a t-shirt. I bet you do too, dontcha.
| 211 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:33:37pm |
I have hunted and killed my whole life, up until a few years ago when I moved to NM…I neither enjoyed killing nor found some dignified merit in it…you kill, you eat…it’s primeval…watching your game blow up from a perfect direct hit is not a pretty sight…I killed mostly white tail deer…a magnificent creature and there is little joy in it
| 212 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:35:18pm |
re: #206 Aceofwhat?
a good supplement. animal proteins have special components that falafa juuust doesn’t quite provide. (love the stuff, don’t get me wrong)
sharmuta was right. we’re better off figuring out how to embrace our inner omnivore more sustainably than trying to deny our inner omnivore.
I never even tried to be a vegetarian. Not that I’m a big meat consumer like something out of Hank Hill. Falafal is OK if done right with the sauces and such. Cheeses are good and my favorites being cheddar, Monterey Jack, romano, mozzarella, baked ricotta. A big old plate of pasta with a mountain of romano and mushrooms!
| 213 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:35:34pm |
re: #211 albusteve
And a 30.06 is about the cleanest fate a deer can find.
| 214 |
Feline Fearless Leader Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:35:38pm |
re: #26 Spare O’Lake
It’s all good for Canada until Godzilla, Gamera, and pals thaw out of the northern icepack. Since Tokyo will be underwater by then I expect they might then select the former Great White North as the most palatable homeland.
/
| 216 |
Big Steve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:36:49pm |
| 217 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:37:00pm |
re: #215 Sharmuta
Colby is such an under-rated cheese…
I hate Colby. I’ve always found it bland. I much prefer a good sharp cheddar.
| 218 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:37:09pm |
re: #207 Decatur Deb
Bet I’m the only male goy in my town who makes his own “hommos”. Finding hyssop is a pain in lower Alabama.
No way! What’s hyssop? We use tahini, garbonzos, olive oil, garlic, salt, lemon. It’s sooo easy, especially if you’re lazy and use canned beans.
| 219 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:37:41pm |
| 220 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:37:43pm |
re: #213 Decatur Deb
And a 30.06 is about the cleanest fate a deer can find.
MI with a 12ga…I’ve had to go full auto after a bad shot…not cool, but I did it and I’m not sorry for it
| 221 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:37:53pm |
re: #211 albusteve
I have hunted and killed my whole life, up until a few years ago when I moved to NM…I neither enjoyed killing nor found some dignified merit in it…you kill, you eat…it’s primeval…watching your game blow up from a perfect direct hit is not a pretty sight…I killed mostly white tail deer…a magnificent creature and there is little joy in it
I can dig the “thrill of the hunt”, the skill it requires when it’s done right and respectfully. As a wildlife biologist, I get it. My goals weren’t to kill the animals I tracked, but I understand that feeling when I successfully tracked to the nest or found the sign I was seeking. It’s very cool.
| 223 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:38:39pm |
re: #218 marjoriemoon
No way! What’s hyssop? We use tahini, garbonzos, olive oil, garlic, salt, lemon. It’s sooo easy, especially if you’re lazy and use canned beans.
Goy secret: Drop in 2 large spicy kalamati olives while you’re blending it.
| 224 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:39:03pm |
re: #222 Sharmuta
And no Pecorino? Damn, Gus…
I was going to list that as well. That cheese never makes it to any pasta or dish. I’ll eat that as a snack!
| 225 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:39:08pm |
re: #219 HoosierHoops
The best Colby comes from Wisc..
Most of the best cheese does. That’s one of the benefits of living in Illinois: Wisconsin is just next door.
| 226 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:40:03pm |
OK, so “hommos” is humus? Oooo, who’s got a great recipe. I want it!
| 227 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:40:36pm |
re: #221 allegro
I can dig the “thrill of the hunt”, the skill it requires when it’s done right and respectfully. As a wildlife biologist, I get it. My goals weren’t to kill the animals I tracked, but I understand that feeling when I successfully tracked to the nest or found the sign I was seeking. It’s very cool.
my personal albusteve massacre is over…I still own some guns but I think my killing days are history
| 228 |
cliffster Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:40:44pm |
re: #225 Dark_Falcon
How about fried cheese curds? Do you get the inside scoop on that in Illinois too?
| 229 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:40:47pm |
re: #223 Decatur Deb
Goy secret: Drop in 2 large spicy kalamati olives while you’re blending it.
hehe coolness. we’ve substituted lime when we’re out of lemon. Not quite the same, a little extra tangy.
| 231 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:41:19pm |
re: #226 allegro
OK, so “hommos” is humus? Oooo, who’s got a great recipe. I want it!
[Link: www.mediterrasian.com…]
| 232 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:42:10pm |
re: #212 Gus 802
I never even tried to be a vegetarian. Not that I’m a big meat consumer like something out of Hank Hill. Falafal is OK if done right with the sauces and such. Cheeses are good and my favorites being cheddar, Monterey Jack, romano, mozzarella, baked ricotta. A big old plate of pasta with a mountain of romano and mushrooms!
Gus 802 -
Regarding Beer - take up cheap Vodka and Juice. As for meat, as I have gotten older I have backed off to much more Chicken, Fish and Dairy. Maybe I am getting too old.
-S-
| 234 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:42:44pm |
Verrry interesting chart - The Facts About Bottled Water
[Link: www.dump.com…]
| 235 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:44:08pm |
re: #231 Sharmuta
Classical!! Can you really freeze it? That would save a lot of discarded tahini.
| 236 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:44:45pm |
re: #232 Dr. Shalit
Gus 802 -
Regarding Beer - take up cheap Vodka and Juice. As for meat, as I have gotten older I have backed off to much more Chicken, Fish and Dairy. Maybe I am getting too old.
-S-
my habits exactly…you are not alone amigo
| 238 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:45:03pm |
re: #232 Dr. Shalit
Gus 802 -
Regarding Beer - take up cheap Vodka and Juice. As for meat, as I have gotten older I have backed off to much more Chicken, Fish and Dairy. Maybe I am getting too old.
-S-
I only get a lean ground beef. Good meat or steaks gets rather pricey. I’m on a bachelor’s “diet” which means a lot of microwave meals.
| 239 |
Sharmuta Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:45:08pm |
re: #234 Stanley Sea
Verrry interesting chart - The Facts About Bottled Water
[Link: www.dump.com…]
That is stunning.
| 240 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:45:36pm |
re: #188 Dark_Falcon
They leave Muslim ceremonies alone for the same reason most activists do. Mess with a Christian or Jewish ritual and the worst you get is protests and bad PR, mess with a Muslim ritual and people die in the subsequent riots and terrorism.
They show up to protest the ridiculous events, for example the “chicken dance” at NASCAR, but when animals really are being tortured and abused, and blood and guts are flowing in the streets, you won’t see the PETA girls in skimpy lamb costumes.
| 241 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:45:51pm |
re: #215 Sharmuta
Colby is such an under-rated cheese…
Sharmuta - Yes It Is - Love one slice of Colby with another of Jack or Muenster with two slices of toast, Coffee and Juice for Breakfast.
| 242 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:46:05pm |
re: #237 swamprat
…maybe a brace to take the weight off.
I’m very fortunate to have two legs at this time…
| 243 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:46:33pm |
| 244 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:47:59pm |
re: #238 Gus 802
I only get a lean ground beef. Good meat or steaks gets rather pricey. I’m on a bachelor’s “diet” which means a lot of microwave meals.
Gus 802 -
“… If ‘ya can’t Nuke it, you’ll probably Puke it …”
-S-
| 245 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:48:10pm |
re: #243 reine.de.tout
That was stunning.
Don’t take away my Perrier.
That reminds me, have to tell my son to bring a couple of cases when he comes in from Canada.
| 246 |
cliffster Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:48:14pm |
| 247 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:48:30pm |
re: #228 cliffster
How about fried cheese curds? Do you get the inside scoop on that in Illinois too?
If you know where to look, yes.
| 248 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:49:02pm |
re: #243 reine.de.tout
We do Brita. Then glass.
| 249 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:49:22pm |
There is a little town up in the Hills of Napa Valley called Angwin.. It is a town founded by a religious group called 7th day Adventists…
These people know healthy food..I mean seriously organic, healthy food.
We used to go driving up there to go shopping for food..The best!
| 250 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:49:25pm |
I went tap only about a year ago. Budget concerns mainly, we were spending tons on bottled water & would always run out at inopportune times.
| 251 |
swamprat Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:49:42pm |
re: #242 albusteve
i knew a “bish” many years ago, who for years, wore a brace as a correction. It worked, and he got to remove it. He was a good guy.
| 252 |
cliffster Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:49:45pm |
Wow, 3X the amount of water to produce the bottle as it takes to fill it.
| 254 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:50:40pm |
re: #245 Alouette
Don’t take away my Perrier.
That reminds me, have to tell my son to bring a couple of cases when he comes in from Canada.
re: #245 Alouette
Don’t take away my Perrier.
That reminds me, have to tell my son to bring a couple of cases when he comes in from Canada.
too bad you fall for that old joke…you are being used
| 255 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:51:20pm |
re: #240 Alouette
They show up to protest the ridiculous events, for example the “chicken dance” at NASCAR, but when animals really are being tortured and abused, and blood and guts are flowing in the streets, you won’t see the PETA girls in skimpy lamb costumes.
A woman who showed up in a skimpy lamb costume at a Muslim event would find herself forced into a burka. Again, PETA does not protest Islam because they fear the price that they would pay.
| 256 |
albusteve Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:51:57pm |
re: #251 swamprat
i knew a “bish” many years ago, who for years, wore a brace as a correction. It worked, and he got to remove it. He was a good guy.
my name is Bishop and I’m not a good guy
| 257 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:52:14pm |
| 258 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:52:31pm |
I think when PETA got started, it was for a righteous reason. Now, the organization does way more harm than good.
| 259 |
swamprat Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:53:42pm |
| 260 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:53:49pm |
Not gonna make it to the open thread tonight, it looks like. So here’s a turd in the punchbowl from the JPost: Human rights group: Hamas disinters Christians in Gaza. Seems the remains “pollute the earth”.
| 261 |
Gus Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:53:55pm |
re: #234 Stanley Sea
Verrry interesting chart - The Facts About Bottled Water
[Link: www.dump.com…]
That’s pretty amazing. 17,000,000 barrels of oil for just bottled water? I never grasped the concept. When one is on foot or traveling water is supposed to be free. That is, you stop at a diner and ask for a glass of water and you were always served. Or filling up a canteen, water jug, etc., at a well or spigot. Imagine in the 1950s some guy walks into a diner after a long drive. Penniless he asks for a drink of water. He’s served and then the waitress says, that’ll be 50 cents please.
| 262 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:54:09pm |
re: #256 albusteve
I’m not a good guy
You say that and I often believe it. Nut then you say stuff that makes me feel affection for you and it pisses me off. ;)
| 263 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:54:10pm |
i always thought it ended, not with a bang, but with a whimper.
| 264 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:54:22pm |
re: #258 allegro
I think when PETA got started, it was for a righteous reason. Now, the organization does way more harm than good.
Quite Concur.
| 265 |
Political Atheist Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:55:26pm |
re: #258 allegro
PETA tried to tell me I’m a bad guy for feeding my cats meat. I’m supposed to make vegetarians of my CATS! Idiots. Cats are obligate carnivores. During the Chinese poison cat food episodes we looked at making our own. Senator Durbin stepped up on that BTW.
| 266 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:57:26pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
During the Chinese poison cat food episodes we looked at making our own.
I am certain now that my beloved Sheltie was killed by it, something I will never forgive or forget. I cook for my Spaniel now. He will never eat commercial pet foods.
| 267 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:57:27pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
PETA tried to tell me I’m a bad guy for feeding my cats meat. I’m supposed to make vegetarians of my CATS! Idiots. Cats are obligate carnivores. During the Chinese poison cat food episodes we looked at making our own. Senator Durbin stepped up on that BTW.
PETA are misanthropes, pure & simple.
| 268 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:57:42pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
PETA tried to tell me I’m a bad guy for feeding my cats meat. I’m supposed to make vegetarians of my CATS! Idiots. Cats are obligate carnivores. During the Chinese poison cat food episodes we looked at making our own. Senator Durbin stepped up on that BTW.
PETA does not understand world, preferring willful ignorance. I’ve got a new favorite piece on delusions such as their’s that I’ll post in the next thread.
| 269 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:59:07pm |
re: #248 Rightwingconspirator
We do Brita. Then glass.
We have excellent water from underground aquifers, no need for any filtering system at all.
| 270 |
cliffster Sun, Dec 13, 2009 6:59:27pm |
re: #265 Rightwingconspirator
PETA tried to tell me I’m a bad guy for feeding my cats meat. I’m supposed to make vegetarians of my CATS! Idiots. Cats are obligate carnivores. During the Chinese poison cat food episodes we looked at making our own. Senator Durbin stepped up on that BTW.
Right - unlike dogs, who can get what they need from vegetarian sources, cats will not last long on veggies. Taurine I believe is the sticking point.
| 271 |
cliffster Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:00:34pm |
re: #267 The Sanity Inspector
PETA are misanthropes, pure & simple.
PETA does so much more harm than good to the cause they champion. And it’s very sad, because it’s a very good cause.
| 272 |
What, me worry? Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:01:45pm |
re: #260 The Sanity Inspector
Not gonna make it to the open thread tonight, it looks like. So here’s a turd in the punchbowl from the JPost: Human rights group: Hamas disinters Christians in Gaza. Seems the remains “pollute the earth”.
They overran Bethlehem and Nazarath and the church, any church, particularly the pope, did nothing.
| 273 |
Barflytom Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:18:41pm |
One of the least convincing people I’ve ever seen. There was another video from this guy on the previous thread on this. Just 2 examples; he tried to make the argument that government spending in the 1930’s hadn’t caused or prolonged the Great Depression. Plenty of economists now make the case that FDR was the man who put the ‘Great’ in the Great Depression, with constantly changing policies and government interference in all aspects of business. Also, he tries to say that taking action now will be cheaper than postponing doing anything. Why ? The world economy will be much larger than today in a decade or two, technology will have advanced, and it will be easier to absorb the costs of replacing energy sources than it would be today. And since the effects of AGW are not yet fully apparent, waiting a few years might give us a better idea of whether the enormous costs involved are worth paying or not. Everything Mr Craven says suggests that he’s just another alarmist with a full set of silly leftie opinions, and a pretty annoying demeanour as well, if I may say so.
| 274 |
allegro Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:20:47pm |
re: #273 Barflytom
The world economy will be much larger than today in a decade or two, technology will have advanced, and it will be easier to absorb the costs of replacing energy sources than it would be today
Yeah, fuck the people dying right now and for the next decade.
| 275 |
Barflytom Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:27:57pm |
re: #274 allegro
And who exactly is dying “right now” as a result of AGW? Names and addresses ?
There are untold numbers of people in third world countries dying prematurely for lack of electricity or other amenities - right now.
| 276 |
iheartbolton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:37:18pm |
Yre: #273 Barflytom
Ya, the Austrians are correct, being the only economists to predict the great depression. Ludwig von Mises declined a job to run an Austrian bank in 1929 because he thought a collapse was imminent.
Now I’ve been reading “The Dirty Dozen” not the movie - but a book about the worst dozen supreme court decisions. A couple are from the FDR era laws.
illuminating
| 277 |
Larry A. Herzberg Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:41:08pm |
I posted this in response to the first video-
re: #651 avram
Here’s my take on the Pascal’s Wager analogy.
Early in Pascal’s argument, he attempts what’s known in decision theory as an argument from “superdomination”. It allows the arguer to avoid the messy business of assigning probabilities to the various outcomes (which fill up the boxes of the decision matrix). In decision theory, one option (let’s call it “A1” superdominates another (call it “A2”) when two conditions are met:
1) A1’s worst possible outcome is at least as good as A2’s best.
2) Choosing A1 is better than choosing A2 in at least one possible outcome.Since the argument in the video does not involve assignments of probabilities to the various outcomes, it’s in effect an argument that A1 (taking action) superdominates A2 (not doing so). But it’s clear that this is false, since A1’s worst possible outcome has a high cost, while A2’s best possible outcome is a smiley face. That is, it fails the first condition for superdomination. So, as it stands, the argument fails.
Pascal also realized that his first run-through of his wager argument failed, and so turned to his more sophisticated argument, which involved assigning probabilities to the outcomes, as well as infinite negative utility to the worst case scenario. Then he could use the mathematics of expected utilities - where the expected utility of an outcome = its (positive or negative) value multiplied by its probability - for support. He was so sure of his argument’s soundness only because it didn’t matter what the probabilities were, as long as they were non-zero and the worst possible outcome of not believing when God exists had INFINITE negative utility, while that of believing had, at worst (when God doesn’t exist) finite negative utility. That’s where the parallel breaks down in the present case; since there are no infinite values to buttress the argument here, in this case both the values and the probabilities need to be discussed in detail, and this argument doesn’t begin to do that.
By the way, I support taking action, strongly. But the argument for doing so has to be better than this one.
He clearly has taken criticisms along these lines into account in the new video, and while he needs to do more work to be as convincing as possible, this argument at least begins to assign probabilities… using an argument from authority. Basically it is: these respected institutions wouldn’t put their reputations on the line by saying that warming is happening unless the risk of its happening were quite high. I agree. So this is a far better argument than the previous one.
There are still questions to be answered about the relative values and disvalues of the outcomes, though. That, it seems to me, is where the real action is in the present debate: minimizing the costs of action, while having the best possible effect on the problem.
| 278 |
barflytom Sun, Dec 13, 2009 7:49:27pm |
re: #276 iheartbolton
This book ?
[Link: www.amazon.com…]
Looks interesting - I might go and do me some readin’ ! Thank you for mentioning it.
| 279 |
Bob Dillon Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:04:45pm |
re: #88 Spare O’Lake
In addition to arming heavily, should we also be buying real estate and building bunkers up in Alaska, Yukon, Nunavut?
If you are considering remote areas it would be good to have a limitless supply of money before taking on such a project. The back areas (The Bush) in Alaska have a significant number of abandoned houses and facilities. Most unfinished - since there are no roads everything must be brought in by air. Then there are 7 months of what can be brutal winter weather. Snowstorms in July are not uncommon in some of the valleys. Folks with the greatest of intentions have bailed out after a season or two leaving everything behind.
Yes there are some who live out in the Bush year round and thrive. They are very accomplished survivalist, hunters, trappers and dog sled experts. It is skill and an art living that way. One does not make many misjudgments and survive in that environment.
| 280 |
iheartbolton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:50:51pm |
re: #278 barflytom
thats the one.
I’d love to give another of the 12, but relevant here is:
#4 Whitman v American Trucking
Law making by administrative agencies
The actual case wasn’t as interesting as the set up. But the alphabet soup agencies get a dishonorable mention.
The EPA is told by Congress to regulate clean air. There are carcinogens, for example, where 1 part per million is harmful. The problem is that they exist in nature already. So if you are the EPA, what exactly is your task?
John Locke evidently articulated the non-delegation doctrine in his 2nd Treatise of Government (just got my copy of AIER’s Progress and Property Rights pamphlet).
| 281 |
iheartbolton Sun, Dec 13, 2009 8:59:37pm |
obre: #278 barflytom
Obviously the implication is the alphabet soup agencies making laws at times without clear instruction from Congress. Not to mention consent of the governed. They have police power and most have very hazy instructions.
Do you know what laws the CFTC, DEA, EEOC, FAA, FCC, FDIC, FEC, FEMA, FERC, FMC, FTC, IRS, ICC OSHA, NLRB, NTSB, SEC, SBA, and SSA have issued this year? or ever?
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