Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. The detective must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor. He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and a contempt for pettiness.
— Raymond Chandler
1 |
laZardo Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:21pm |
“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes back.”
-Nietzsche
/what?
| 2 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:16:39pm |
Rude wit… yes, the internet certainly has plenty of rude wit.
Dreaming of a less rude time….
| 3 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:18:18pm |
“He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and a contempt for pettiness.”
I do wish we could do without the pettiness.
Good night, dear Lizards.
Stay with those lovely senses.
And, do whack a Troll or two!
Thanks, Charles.
| 4 |
soap_man Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:21:22pm |
Just got back from the tavern. Mellow mood, so I’m listening to a little Belle and Sebastian.
“And I was there for you
When you were lonely
I was there when you were bad
I was there when you were sad
Now it’s my time of need
I’m thinking, do I have to plead to get you by my side?”
| 6 |
Soap_Man Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:26:21pm |
| 7 |
Girth Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:26:39pm |
I’ve never been big on anime, but damn Full Metal Alchemist is cool, I’ve gotta rent some DVDs.
| 8 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:27:35pm |
re: #6 Soap_Man
Whenever I’m lonely or sad or times are bad, I look around and you’re there. Try moving away a little bit, fella.
| 9 |
Soap_Man Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:29:55pm |
re: #8 SteveMcG
Whenever I’m lonely or sad or times are bad, I look around and you’re there. Try moving away a little bit, fella.
I don’t know what you mean. Could you explain?
| 11 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:31:53pm |
re: #8 SteveMcG
Whenever I’m lonely or sad or times are bad, I look around and you’re there. Try moving away a little bit, fella.
In college, one of my friends had the most astonishing run of horrific bad stuff happening to her for about six weeks. People died in traffic accidents, committed suicide, were diagnosed with HIV, her teenage sister had to have an ovary removed in emergency surgery…it went on and on, and after a while, I’d open the door to my dorm room, and she’d be standing there in tears, and I’d be torn between sympathy and a sense that I should put some distance between us FAST.
| 12 |
Soap_Man Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:34:31pm |
re: #10 SteveMcG
Nevermind.
I was just quoting a song I happen to be listening to at the moment. A very good song by a very good band, I might add. Calling me “bad luck” needs an explanation, I would think.
| 13 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:40:24pm |
Today’s efforts were spent in a fun but trivial exercising in creating a La Liga 2009-2010 Google Map with info on all 20 clubs and stadiums. If you are a football (soccer) fan and enjoy La Liga, check it out.
| 14 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:41:03pm |
re: #12 Soap_Man
Geez. Okay I’ll try this. Remeber that ubiquitous “Footprints” peom, the one where there’s only one set of footprints at the bad times of your life and God says he was carrying you? I always felt the alternative ending on the DVD should be either. “Well, God, couldn’t you have carried me somewhere else?” Or: “You should have dropped me off, I would have just gone back to my car.” “How about a ‘head’s up’ next time?” “Maybe things wouldn’t have been so bad if you just let me alone. If you’re so smart why did you invent head lice?” Or, “Maybe that shit cannon is aimed at you but it’s hitting me. You want to stand back a little?”
| 15 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:42:50pm |
| 17 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:44:15pm |
The mountain of subtleties in the interaction between CSS and HTML is overwhelming… I’m discovering.
Oh, what a Web we have wove for ourselves…
| 18 |
Soap_Man Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:45:43pm |
re: #14 SteveMcG
I think you are taking my intention to mean something else. An open thread, so I decided to quote a song I was listening to, maybe to kick start a conversation. I still don’t know what you are talking about.
| 19 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:46:03pm |
re: #13 Locker
Today’s efforts were spent in a fun but trivial exercising in creating a La Liga 2009-2010 Google Map with info on all 20 clubs and stadiums. If you are a football (soccer) fan and enjoy La Liga, check it out.
This is the general region where my maternal grandparents were born.
| 21 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:48:17pm |
re: #20 Locker
Your link shows Perrera, is that correct?
Yeah, near there. Didn’t want to be specific for security reasons. That is, you know, the wingnuts.
| 22 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:50:14pm |
re: #18 Soap_Man
I think you are taking my intention to mean something else. An open thread, so I decided to quote a song I was listening to, maybe to kick start a conversation. I still don’t know what you are talking about.
I think he was kidding around about the song lyrics. Everyone, please stay calm. There’s chaos on the last thread. I can’t take much more.
| 23 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:51:19pm |
re: #18 Soap_Man
JFnC. I’m listening to Jethro Tull right now, doesn’t mean I want to quote them. Anyway, let’s suppose all this bad stuff happens to you. What’s the common element? That so-called friend standing right THERE. No the other guy, the one with the black cloud over his head. Yeah, that one. Isn’t it obvious? Get rid of that guy, and everything’s gonna be ok, ok? You stirred a conversation. Nobody said it had to go the same place you had in mind, did they. Lighten up.
| 24 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:51:23pm |
re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist
I think he was kidding around about the song lyrics. Everyone, please stay calm. There’s chaos on the last thread. I can’t take much more.
Not really chaos. One drunk shouting in a bar isn’t really chaos. It’s just saturday night.
| 25 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:51:52pm |
re: #21 Gus 802
Yeah, near there. Didn’t want to be specific for security reasons. That is, you know, the wingnuts.
Cool man that’s very near Portugal border it seems. Have some friends with family there. Have you been back?
| 26 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:52:10pm |
re: #24 recusancy
Not really chaos. One drunk shouting in a bar isn’t really chaos. It’s just saturday night.
Which drunk is shouting?
| 28 |
Gus Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:53:21pm |
re: #25 Locker
Cool man that’s very near Portugal border it seems. Have some friends with family there. Have you been back?
Nah, never been there. Always keep promising myself to go there and Northern Italy and BA, Argentina.
| 29 |
recusancy Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:53:43pm |
re: #27 SteveMcG
I thought one drunk meant Tuesday night?
Everyone’s drunk. It’s just not mixing well with their meds for one person.
| 30 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:54:49pm |
re: #29 recusancy
What do you say we all throw our meds in the air and everybody just take whatever they pick up off the floor?
| 31 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:55:57pm |
re: #30 SteveMcG
What do you say we all throw our meds in the air and everybody just take whatever they pick up off the floor?
Pharm Party. Kids do that, basically.
| 32 |
Sinistershade Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:57:27pm |
re: #17 freetoken
The mountain of subtleties in the interaction between CSS and HTML is overwhelming… .
Then throw in the behaviors of the various flavors of IE … it’ll make a grown man cry.
| 33 |
SteveMcG Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:58:06pm |
re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar
Really? They’re probably all carrying the same thing. I don’t know how much fun I would be. All I carry is motrin, but lots of it. Maybe the placebo effect would work. Tell them it’s the latest thing from Amsterdam.
| 34 |
Locker Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:58:12pm |
re: #28 Gus 802
Nah, never been there. Always keep promising myself to go there and Northern Italy and BA, Argentina.
That’s funny a buddy is in BA. He runs a house music website: [Link: www.wherestheculture.com…]
Love to go down and see him at some point.
| 35 |
Mark Pennington Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:58:53pm |
I just came in here where its quiet to say good-night to everyone. I’m going back to bed to snuggle with my baby.
| 36 |
Soap_Man Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:59:23pm |
re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist
The mood is strange here tonight. I think I’ll just move on.
| 37 |
freetoken Sat, Jan 2, 2010 11:59:46pm |
re: #32 Sinistershade
I say screw IE. I’m not going to play to that crowd.
| 38 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:00:37am |
| 39 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:00:51am |
re: #37 freetoken
I must not be that computer savvy. I never have the computer problems you guys seem to have.
| 40 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:03:58am |
re: #39 SteveMcG
I must not be that computer savvy. I never have the computer problems you guys seem to have.
Yeah. Me too. I let the computer do whatever it wants, and nothing exciting ever happens.
| 41 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:06:49am |
re: #39 SteveMcG
I must not be that computer savvy. I never have the computer problems you guys seem to have.
It’s a little different when you’re building Web sites. The modern way of laying out pages using cascading style sheets can be very hard for us old-timers to work with. And then Microsoft’s various browsers have wildly different behaviors in how they display the same underlying code. And yet these kids today, they just make it work. And they won’t stay off my lawn.
| 42 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:08:11am |
re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist
One time, my computer, printer, external DVD drive, mouse, and everything took off across the table. My then 2 year old daughter saw the cords and could resist a little jump rope. Well, white toddlers can’t jump.
| 43 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:09:32am |
re: #41 Sinistershade
Oh, goody. I have to make a new website for my company (after seven years). At least it’ll be challenging:)
| 44 |
Gus Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:10:42am |
re: #34 Locker
That’s funny a buddy is in BA. He runs a house music website: [Link: www.wherestheculture.com…]
Love to go down and see him at some point.
I like the acid jazz.
| 47 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:16:52am |
So if you absolutely positively had to make a page that somebody would look at to save your life, and buy little rubber baby buggy bumpers, which would you choose?
| 48 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:18:12am |
re: #45 freetoken
Ain’t gonna happen anytime soon. IE8 has caught up in WW3 standards and as long as you stick to CSS2 or below it’s no problem designing for IE6+ along with every other browser (which is what you should be doing).
| 49 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:20:05am |
re: #48 recusancy
Oh shit. I missed World War 3? If I could post a link I would put up Tom Lehrer’s “So Long Mom”. I guess that new website might take a while.
| 52 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:22:22am |
re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth
I was hoping for a little wisdom overspray about this HTML and CSS stuff.
| 53 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:23:04am |
re: #49 SteveMcG
Oh shit. I missed World War 3? If I could post a link I would put up Tom Lehrer’s “So Long Mom”. I guess that new website might take a while.
Actually I meant to type W3C. haha…
But WW3’s coming! Be afraid! Alex Jones told me so.
| 54 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:23:58am |
re: #47 SteveMcG
So if you absolutely positively had to make a page that somebody would look at to save your life, and buy little rubber baby buggy bumpers, which would you choose?
What are you asking? Which what would I choose?
| 55 |
SteveMcG Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:25:06am |
re: #54 recusancy
How should I know? Re #53, on the bright side, WW3 would solve a lot of problems…
| 56 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:25:55am |
re: #45 freetoken
CSS as a concept sounds attractive… however, it seems to me (and I am no CSS expert, just learning) that one can screw up with CSS just as easily as with plain HTML.
For simple, flat pages, I think tables are much easier (maybe because that’s what I’m used to), but CSS has massive advantages for larger sites, with its centralized formatting control and inheritance. And when you get to dynamic sites, where you’re pulling in data (often from XML), CSS is a life saver. That idea of abstracting display from content really pays off. But, oh, the blood you can sweat getting there!
There are very many websites that I’ve visited, using Safari but also Firefox, that simply cannot be readable on my Mac. I assume this is because the coder designed the site for some variant of IE.
I don’t run into that very often anymore, but, yes, I’d guess that that is what you’re seeing–non-standard, Microsoft-esque code.
In the browser wars it looks like Chrome is coming on fast (it just surpassed Safari.) Let’s hope that once IE gets below 50% of the market that the dynamics of web-economics will change and the web developers will feel free to forget about the IE variants.
Boy, I wish. But when you are designing for a very general audience, that’s where you still see a significant population of IE6 users. Maybe in a couple of years, when Win7 and IE8 are more prominent.
| 57 |
freetoken Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:27:34am |
re: #48 recusancy
…. (which is what you should be doing).
I guess I don’t buy that concept. I should do whatever I set out to do - I have no good reason to try for some lowest common denominator.
For any web developer the challenge emerging is that plethora of hand held devices - they are quickly adding up into the tens of millions sold every year (heck, Apple just sold 11 million iPhones.) This divergence in the viewing pool, between small screened hand-held devices and large screened home devices, is a pretty large divide to bridge.
I see little motivation to be all things to all people.
Let’s face it - we’re heading deep into Babel II. The Age of Confusion. Computer Chaos.
| 58 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:29:50am |
re: #48 recusancy
Ain’t gonna happen anytime soon. IE8 has caught up in WW3 standards and as long as you stick to CSS2 or below it’s no problem designing for IE6+ along with every other browser (which is what you should be doing).
Either you’ve had much better luck than I, or your code is purer (which is distinctly possible). IE6 makes Baby Jeebus cry (when he’s coding CSS).
| 59 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:30:01am |
| 60 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:32:16am |
re: #57 freetoken
I guess I don’t buy that concept. I should do whatever I set out to do - I have no good reason to try for some lowest common denominator.
For any web developer the challenge emerging is that plethora of hand held devices - they are quickly adding up into the tens of millions sold every year (heck, Apple just sold 11 million iPhones.) This divergence in the viewing pool, between small screened hand-held devices and large screened home devices, is a pretty large divide to bridge.
I see little motivation to be all things to all people.
Let’s face it - we’re heading deep into Babel II. The Age of Confusion. Computer Chaos.
Ummm… You don’t buy the concept of having your website function properly in every customer’s browser?
| 62 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:33:05am |
re: #47 SteveMcG
So if you absolutely positively had to make a page that somebody would look at to save your life, and buy little rubber baby buggy bumpers, which would you choose?
If that were the strict case, I wouldn’t even use tables. I’d use good old ugly 1997 HTML, with no styles or fonts or anything. In the real world, however, you’re probably better off biting the bullet and learning the current “right” way to do it–CSS.
| 63 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:33:42am |
re: #58 Sinistershade
Either you’ve had much better luck than I, or your code is purer (which is distinctly possible). IE6 makes Baby Jeebus cry (when he’s coding CSS).
I’m a professional web developer. It’s pretty basic. I know that might sound condescending but it’s the truth. What are you trying to do that you can’t in IE6?
| 64 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:36:51am |
re: #63 recusancy
I’m a professional web developer. It’s pretty basic. I know that might sound condescending but it’s the truth. What are you trying to do that you can’t in IE6?
I’m not trying to do anything at the moment. But when I’ve designed sites, I’ve often found that IE6 handles certain CSS objects differently than other browsers, leaving gaps between objects or other weird artifacts. It’s usually meant a lot of debugging and, often, IE6-specific hacks in the code.
| 65 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:38:43am |
re: #63 recusancy
It probably doesn’t help that I’m *not* a professional Web developer, but a professional Web writer/editor, so I’m not immersed in the various niceties on a daily basis.
| 66 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:42:08am |
re: #64 Sinistershade
I’m not trying to do anything at the moment. But when I’ve designed sites, I’ve often found that IE6 handles certain CSS objects differently than other browsers, leaving gaps between objects or other weird artifacts. It’s usually meant a lot of debugging and, often, IE6-specific hacks in the code.
Yeah… It has different box models etc… But if you do a reset in the first few lines of your css code you should be fine. Maybe everyone once in a while you’ll need to add an “if ie6” code into the style sheet but not often.
| 67 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:46:41am |
re: #66 recusancy
And, as I suggested, if I did it every day, the details would undoubtedly become second nature. Instead, I’ve found myself doing Google searches to find all the little workarounds and fixes that pros probably don’t think twice about.
| 68 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:48:14am |
As long as we’re geeking out on Web stuff, does anyone know what code Charles uses to run this site? Is it custom stuff he writes himself? It’s very nice, and I don’t think I’ve ever encountered it before.
| 69 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:50:52am |
re: #68 Sinistershade
As long as we’re geeking out on Web stuff, does anyone know what code Charles uses to run this site? Is it custom stuff he writes himself? It’s very nice, and I don’t think I’ve ever encountered it before.
PHP
| 70 |
iceweasel Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:52:08am |
re: #69 recusancy
PHP
There’s a great deal of code here that he’s written himself though, isn’t there? I thought almost all of it was custom?
forgive coding ignorance here, pls.
| 71 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:54:47am |
re: #69 recusancy
PHP
Yes, but so often a forum/blog system uses some off-the-shelf PHP package, even if it is heavily customized. I don’t recognize this as one I’ve seen before.
| 72 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:55:49am |
re: #70 iceweasel
There’s a great deal of code here that he’s written himself though, isn’t there? I thought almost all of it was custom?
forgive coding ignorance here, pls.
I would assume it’s custom. You can’t see the php backend coding. HTML and CSS. There’s a few out-of-the-box JQuery stuff like the retweet widgets etc…
| 73 |
freetoken Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:57:53am |
re: #60 recusancy
Ummm… You don’t buy the concept of having your website function properly in every customer’s browser?
Yes, I think, that is what I am saying.
It goes beyond dealing with the legacy IE stuff….
“Every customer” is a loaded phrase. First, I’m not necessarily concerned with what technically makes a “customer” one such being or not… but more importantly, “every” is too broad of a goal, I think.
Look at what Charles has recommended for those viewing via an iPhone - use the LGF Spy instead of the normal blog window. This is simply a practical work around - there is no way that Charles could try and make LGF with its massive threads perfect for every portable device.
My own goal in web development is simply for my own creative expression. There is no need to try and please the 500 million or so web-active viewers in the world.
If I were forced to develop a website for, say, MasterCard then I would be inclined to try and make the site accessible to every damn person in the world. Fortunately, I’m not in that situation.
| 74 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 12:58:15am |
re: #71 Sinistershade
Yes, but so often a forum/blog system uses some off-the-shelf PHP package, even if it is heavily customized. I don’t recognize this as one I’ve seen before.
Yeah… This isn’t wordpress or joomla or something. It’s custom.
| 75 |
recusancy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:06:50am |
re: #73 freetoken
Just looked at LGF in IE6. There’s definitely some things messed up. I wouldn’t recommend it but it still functions properly.
| 76 |
Sinistershade Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:06:59am |
re: #73 freetoken
My own goal in web development is simply for my own creative expression.
As I suggested upthread, that’s a wonderful luxury to have. It doesn’t have to be someone as ubiquitous as MasterCard to pull you into supporting old browsers. In building sites for non-profit local theaters, as I have had to, you’re dealing with a very non-geek audience, which means a lot of old computers running ancient browsers.
As for LGF, I’m hoping someday some generous developer will come up with a lovely LGF iPhone App. Even a generic mobile version of the site would nice. Thanks for mentioning the LGF Spy workaround. That hadn’t occurred to me.
| 77 |
freetoken Sun, Jan 3, 2010 1:15:22am |
re: #76 Sinistershade
Thanks for mentioning the LGF Spy workaround. That hadn’t occurred to me.
That’s Charles’ recommendation.
| 79 |
FeBru Sun, Jan 3, 2010 3:03:10am |
re: #31 Cannadian Club Akbar
Laughed at the thought of this one, made me think of an incident many years ago when the poor charge nurse on a psych unit lost the plot and gave out meds to patients on the basis of “you’ve been good today so you get two yellow ones”,”you’ve been bad so you get a blue one” and “I don’t like you, so you don’t get anything”.
| 80 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 4:27:42am |
Mornin All. I’m listening to the BlogginHeadsTV bit. It went on for an hour?
| 81 |
laZardo Sun, Jan 3, 2010 4:28:21am |
Watching this show on History Channel. Amazing how much technology has progressed in the last 40 years…
| 82 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 4:45:03am |
re: #77 freetoken
That’s Charles’ recommendation.
The only problem I have using Spy mode is I can’t seem to jump straight to a comment if I want to reply.
| 83 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:14:57am |
The U.S. and Great Britain are shutting down our embassies in Yemen?
| 84 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:23:55am |
re: #83 MandyManners
Haven’t read that but it wouldn’t surprise me. There isn’t any way to guarantee the embassy staff’s safety.
| 85 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:25:22am |
FWIW: Here’s the most recent log from my website showing browser and version:
Msie 8.0…..29.7 %
Netscape 4.0…..14.5 %
Msie 7.0…..12.7 %
Firefox 3.5.6…..12 %
Safari…..10.8 %
Msie 6.0…..5.9 %
Firefox 3.0.16…..602 3.8 %
Google Chrome…..2.1 %
Opera…..1.5 %
Mozilla…..0.9 %
IE 6 usage is small and dropping rapidly (the decline isn’t apparent here, but it falls significantly every month, as does overall IE usage). It just isn’t worth putting a lot of effort into making code work for this steaming pile. In my case, I just don’t care anymore; I do a perfunctory check on an ancient machine to see if the page is readable, put a “Get Firefox” button on it if IE6 is detected, and don’t pursue things any further. The only reason I check at all is to see what the problem is and either fix it (sometimes, very rarely, it’s an actual coding problem, but not often) or simply note what the problem is so if anyone emails describing the symptoms I can write back and tell them to get a real browser. This latter, however, hasn’t happened in several years. Probably because fewer and fewer people are using IE6, and those that remain are used to their web browsing being a disaster.
It is also increasingly commonplace when using IE6 to find pages bearing warnings that your browser is obsolete and will not be supported for much longer, along with links to download sites for browsers that actually work.
| 87 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:31:31am |
re: #86 RogueOne
wow. Isn’t that a bit odd?
Not really. We have several Unix workstations at work, for example, that only support Netscape 4.0; Firefox won’t compile on them and there’s no binary available, so if you want a browser you’re stuck with Netscape. I imagine this explains the prevalence of this decrepit POS.
| 88 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:32:58am |
re: #84 RogueOne
Haven’t read that but it wouldn’t surprise me. There isn’t any way to guarantee the embassy staff’s safety.
The last paragraph below makes me think it’s a temporary measure.
The confrontation with Al Qaeda’s offshoot in Yemen has gained new urgency since the 23-year-old Nigerian accused in the attack, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told American investigators he received training and instructions from the group’s operatives in Yemen. President Barack Obama said Saturday that the Al Qaeda offshoot was behind the attempt.
The White House counterterrorism chief John Brennan said the American Embassy, which was attacked twice in 2008, was shut Sunday because of an “active” Al Qaeda threat. A statement on the embassy’s Web site announcing the closure cited “ongoing threats” from the terror group and did not say how long it would remain closed.
In London, Britain’s Foreign Office said its embassy was closed for security reasons. It said officials would decide later whether to reopen it on Monday.
SNIP
| 89 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:33:42am |
re: #87 SixDegrees
I didn’t have any idea it was a Unix-thing. “Good answer, Good answer!”
| 90 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:35:09am |
The Politiken newspaper reported Sunday that Danish intelligence knew the 28-year-old Somali man was held in Kenya in September for allegedly plotting an attack against U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
SNIP
| 91 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:35:46am |
re: #89 RogueOne
I didn’t have any idea it was a Unix-thing. “Good answer, Good answer!”
Just a guess. It’s also possible that there’s a tiny but dedicated group of Netscape 4.0 enthusiasts that have descended on my website and are hosing over my stats, but that seems unlikely.
| 93 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:50:01am |
re: #91 SixDegrees
A plot of old people trying to bring back netscape.
| 94 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:53:09am |
re: #90 MandyManners
SNIP
Has there as yet been a veritable tsunami of condemnation of the Islamofascist swine from the moderate Muslims who allegedly form the vast majority?
| 95 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 5:57:33am |
re: #94 Spare O’Lake
Has there as yet been a veritable tsunami of condemnation of the Islamofascist swine from the moderate Muslims who allegedly form the vast majority?
Why, no. No there hasn’t.
| 97 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:09:23am |
re: #95 MandyManners
Why, no. No there hasn’t.
Well I for one just can’t understand the deafening roar of their silence.
Don’t they realize that millions of tolerant non-Muslims of good will are finding it increasingly difficult to continue to hold back the growing fascist backlash…while the forces of tolerance continue to be hung out to dry by the gutless enabling impotence of the moderate majority of Muslims?
| 99 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:13:58am |
re: #98 Spare O’Lake
Yo rye-lover.
I never knew it was called rye ‘til I was in Canada. Bartender said, “Whaddya want.” I said CC and coke. She said rye and coke? I said, no, CC and coke. This went on for about 5 minutes. No shit.
| 100 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:14:31am |
re: #97 Spare O’Lake
Well I for one just can’t understand the deafening roar of their silence.
Don’t they realize that millions of tolerant non-Muslims of good will are finding it increasingly difficult to continue to hold back the growing fascist backlash…while the forces of tolerance continue to be hung out to dry by the gutless enabling impotence of the moderate majority of Muslims?
You’re in fine form today.
| 102 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:24:30am |
re: #101 SixDegrees
That is genius. I have come up with something but don’t know how to get the ball rolling without someone stealing my idea. Guess I should just get used to being poor.
| 103 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:25:27am |
re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar
Als, I might add, when I make pancakes, I make a box at a time and freeze them.
| 104 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:27:32am |
re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar
That is genius. I have come up with something but don’t know how to get the ball rolling without someone stealing my idea. Guess I should just get used to being poor.
The article gives this guy’s approach, though not in much detail. I’d suggest talking to an attorney with expertise in product development - initial consults are normally free. And let’s face it - Airstreaming to every State Fair in the country is a drag; what you really want to do is develop (and protect) a product to the point where one of the big boys like Nabisco will buy it from you.
| 105 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:29:41am |
re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar
Als, I might add, when I make pancakes, I make a box at a time and freeze them.
Good plan, but that involves, like, actually thinking ahead the next time you want pancakes. /
| 107 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:31:35am |
re: #106 ggt
Happy January 3, 2010 Lizards!
What’s up?
We decided to cancel the 4th, so take tomorrow off.
/
| 108 |
Cathypop Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:32:43am |
re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar
That is genius. I have come up with something but don’t know how to get the ball rolling without someone stealing my idea. Guess I should just get used to being poor.
Take Six Degrees advice #104. Do not say something won’t work without trying. Not get your butt in gear.
| 109 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:32:50am |
Oh, props to the University of South Florida Bulls, winners of the highly coveted International Bowl in Toronto.
| 110 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:33:10am |
re: #97 Spare O’Lake
Well I for one just can’t understand the deafening roar of their silence.
Don’t they realize that millions of tolerant non-Muslims of good will are finding it increasingly difficult to continue to hold back the growing fascist backlash…while the forces of tolerance continue to be hung out to dry by the gutless enabling impotence of the moderate majority of Muslims?
Remember the Virginia Tech shootings? The shooter was a Korean-American man. In South Korea, there were vigils for the victims, held by shocked Koreans. They were so concerned about their national honor being shamed that they made a public display of their condolences.
| 111 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:34:22am |
re: #107 Cannadian Club Akbar
We decided to cancel the 4th, so take tomorrow off.
/
Glad I asked! Whew.
| 112 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:34:57am |
re: #110 The Sanity Inspector
Remember the Virginia Tech shootings? The shooter was a Korean-American man. In South Korea, there were vigils for the victims, held by shocked Koreans. They were so concerned about their national honor being shamed that they made a public display of their condolences.
If Ax boy would have been successful, there would be reason to celebrate, not shame.
| 113 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:37:46am |
re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar
If Ax boy would have been successful, there would be reason to celebrate, not shame.
Different cultures. I think the Muslim culture is built on NOT being noticed because those in authority are fickle. You could be in deep shit for doing nothing if authority is in a bad mood when you are noticed. The Muslims I know are deeply disturbed by what is going on, just not very vocal about it.
| 114 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:38:12am |
re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar
If Ax boy would have been successful, there would be reason to celebrate, not shame.
“Ax boy”…? Who’s that?
| 115 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:38:48am |
No deaths were reported after the magnitude 5.1 quake struck the Pamir Mountains on Saturday, the Emergency Situations and Civil Defense Committee said.
SNIP
| 116 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:40:09am |
re: #114 The Sanity Inspector
“Ax boy”…? Who’s that?
The guy in Denmark who went to the guys house that drew the Mohammed cartoons. Went to kill him. Had an ax and knife.
| 117 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:41:04am |
| 118 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:41:14am |
re: #113 ggt
Perhaps I didn’t need to use so broad a brush.
| 119 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:42:03am |
re: #116 Cannadian Club Akbar
The guy in Denmark who went to the guys house that drew the Mohammed cartoons. Went to kill him. Had an ax and knife.
Ah, gotcha; thanks.
| 120 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:43:22am |
| 121 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:43:42am |
re: #118 Cannadian Club Akbar
But, kinda what got the ball rolling on this is the fact that the Muslim community isn’t condeming the ax boy.
| 122 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:44:32am |
re: #118 Cannadian Club Akbar
Perhaps I didn’t need to use so broad a brush.
I know it seems so wierd to us that they aren’t more vocal—could be that the media doesn’t seek-out those stories.
| 123 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:45:57am |
| 124 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:46:16am |
re: #122 ggt
I know it seems so wierd to us that they aren’t more vocal—could be that the media doesn’t seek-out those stories.
What about CAIR?
| 125 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:46:37am |
I have to work at 9 tonight which means I get to watch football, but without beer. Ugh.
| 126 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:47:45am |
re: #123 The Sanity Inspector
Tajikistan, the home of the biggest civil war you never heard of.
Sounds like the Soviet elite didn’t want to share.
| 127 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:48:06am |
re: #124 MandyManners
What about CAIR?
The media seems to act as those CAIR is the only mouthpiece there is for Muslim-Americans. I guess I’d like to see more “man on the street” type of interviews.
| 128 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:50:53am |
re: #127 ggt
The media seems to act as those CAIR is the only mouthpiece there is for Muslim-Americans. I guess I’d like to see more “man on the street” type of interviews.
How would the MFM find one?
I asked about CAIR because it’s always the first to bitch about “unfair” treatment of Muslims and the like.
| 129 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:52:05am |
re: #128 MandyManners
How would the MFM find one?
I asked about CAIR because it’s always the first to bitch about “unfair” treatment of Muslims and the like.
Professional victim card.
| 130 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:52:48am |
re: #128 MandyManners
How would the MFM find one?
I asked about CAIR because it’s always the first to bitch about “unfair” treatment of Muslims and the like.
Well, they could walk down the streets of Chicago or Detroit…
CAIR isn’t my favorite subject.
| 131 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:54:50am |
The Little green football prayer list
We pray Father for our dear Lizards in need… Those that cry out for help and comfort in this hour.
Reine: Health and Family
gregb - 4 year old son who suffered a head injury last Friday and spent the
weekend in the ICU with some lingering effects all week.
Irish Rose… midlife retraining for a new career
I.R. My Marine was just taken into medical at MCAS Miramar, they think that he may have a blood clot in his leg.
SteveC: Two friends, one needs heart surgery, and one might.
Update from our friend SteveC:
News on both my friends - the one who might have heart surgery: They’re going to adjust her medication and try a Brachoscopy (?) before deciding on the surgery.
Update
After surgery to replace her Aortic valve, my friend was released from the hospital today! Since she is at Mayo Clinic and lives several hundred miles away, her family is staying at a local hotel and will head for home tomorrow!
Anyone who held a good thought for her, I humbly thank you.
My other friend got a surgical date in January. She quickly got tired of the waiting and asked the surgeon if she could reschedule earlier. Now she’s set for Nov 16
lurking faith… prayers for an aunt
,
Beekiller: Sister has been diagnosed with Cancer…We pray for a speedy recovery
Wlewisiii: Son John has the H1N1 flu….May God touch and heal him this morning
Prairiefire: Good friend John had surgery on cancer in the jaw..We pray for a speedy recovery
Mcspiff: if you could add my uncle to the list. He went in for surgery today and it didn’t go so well. Extra organs had to come out, etc. Still just hearing bits and pieces now. But any prayers would be greatly appreciated.
Yesandno’s husband passed away Friday.. Pray for her comfort
Thanksgiving: Odbicut: Friends little brother recovering From N1H1 virus..
Thank you Lord
In Memoriam:
Obi Wan
Dublin(CA)Dude
USMC 1968
ElderZion
All our Troops who have died protecting our Freedom and their families.
Lord. Hear our Prayers
| 132 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:57:26am |
re: #113 ggt
Different cultures. I think the Muslim culture is built on NOT being noticed because those in authority are fickle. You could be in deep shit for doing nothing if authority is in a bad mood when you are noticed. The Muslims I know are deeply disturbed by what is going on, just not very vocal about it.
That’s somewhat understandable for those Muslims living under totalitarian Islamist political regimes. But what excuse do Western “moderate” Muslims have to keep their heads stuck in the sand. Do they not realize that they enable the Islamofascists with their silence? Do they not realize that time may not be on their side?
Or are they just quietly supportive of the ummah/caliphate?
| 133 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 6:59:39am |
re: #132 Spare O’Lake
That’s somewhat understandable for those Muslims living under totalitarian Islamist political regimes. But what excuse do Western “moderate” Muslims have to keep their heads stuck in the sand. Do they not realize that they enable the Islamofascists with their silence? Do they not realize that time may not be on their side?
Or are they just quietly supportive of the ummah/caliphate?
I think it takes 2-3 generations for some cultural memes to change.
| 134 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:00:17am |
re: #132 Spare O’Lake
That’s somewhat understandable for those Muslims living under totalitarian Islamist political regimes. But what excuse do Western “moderate” Muslims have to keep their heads stuck in the sand. Do they not realize that they enable the Islamofascists with their silence? Do they not realize that time may not be on their side?
Or are they just quietly supportive of the ummah/caliphate?
Maybe there’s a bit of Levantine fatalism going on. Allah exalts whom He will, Allah smites whom He will, and Allah knows best.
| 135 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:00:52am |
re: #133 ggt
I think it takes 2-3 generations for some cultural memes to change.
Not an excuse, just a possible explanation.
| 136 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:01:02am |
re: #133 ggt
I think it takes 2-3 generations for some cultural memes to change.
Given the youth of the terrorists these past ten years, sounds like they’re changing the wrong way.
| 137 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:02:48am |
re: #130 ggt
Well, they could walk down the streets of Chicago or Detroit…
CAIR isn’t my favorite subject.
CAIR is a terrorist support organization. Fortunately, the media has largely wised up to this over the last few years and doesn’t actively seek out CAIR’s commentary as much as they once did. CAIR has to contact the media now more often than the reverse.
I’ll note, too, that standing up and publicly condemning the asshats carries a potentially high penalty - like one of the asshats breaking into your house with an axe some night and murdering you and your family. Although dicks like this make up a tiny minority of Muslims, it’s a significant threat that discourages speaking out.
I agree, though, that wandering through Dearborn and chatting up the residents, it won’t take you long to find bitter condemnation of these and similar acts.
There was a bit of condemnation from Christian sources over Tiller’s murder outside his own church, but hardly what I would call an “avalanche.” There was, in fact, a huge number of apologists whose statements inevitably went along the lines of “Well, of course I don’t agree with murder, but…” and then went on to, well, basically agree with murder. I also suspect that, if you took the time to wander through any heavily Christian community and chat up the residents, you would also find bitter condemnation there. But while public condemnation may not carry the same risk among Christians as among Muslims, it does come at the cost of ostracism, so perhaps the relative silence on the part of Christians over this and other acts of violence perpetrated in the name of their religion is also explainable by intimidation.
| 138 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:02:51am |
re: #136 The Sanity Inspector
Given the youth of the terrorists these past ten years, sounds like they’re changing the wrong way.
Yeah, I don’t get the angry young men part. A while back a Lizard posted the inmates at SuperMax in Colorado. Included were white ayran terrorists as well. Seems it is a “angry young men” phenom, not just a Muslim phenom.
| 139 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:03:15am |
CAIR’s saying the right words.
| 140 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:09:36am |
re: #134 The Sanity Inspector
Maybe there’s a bit of Levantine fatalism going on. Allah exalts whom He will, Allah smites whom He will, and Allah knows best.
Insha’Allah is not an attitude restricted by geography.
| 141 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:10:05am |
You know what I absolutely can’t stand?
Electronic devices that give orders. Right now there is some beeping going on and I have no idea from where.
I have to go shut it up and then clean dog ears.
Have a great day, Lizards!
| 142 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:16:01am |
re: #132 Spare O’Lake
That’s somewhat understandable for those Muslims living under totalitarian Islamist political regimes. But what excuse do Western “moderate” Muslims have to keep their heads stuck in the sand. Do they not realize that they enable the Islamofascists with their silence? Do they not realize that time may not be on their side?
Or are they just quietly supportive of the ummah/caliphate?
If it’s a cultural habit of keeping your head down, they’d probably be doing the same thing if the jihadists were winning. When the infidels are lined up in the square to be dhimmified or beheaded, maybe the moderates would do the same as now: just sigh and shake their heads at the pity of it all. With friends like those…
| 143 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:17:22am |
A bit farfetched? Executives at consumer-products king Procter & Gamble Co. thought so, too, and sent the idea to the discard pile.
P&G also rejected pitches from outside inventors for a bellybutton lint brush, a Knees and Toes body wash to complement Head and Shoulders shampoo, and a “man handle” to keep marital harmony in the bathroom by making it easier to raise and lower the toilet seat.
But there are success stories, too. The original Swiffer duster was developed by a Japanese company that P&G teamed up with to take it global.
That’s why P&G keeps the door open to proposals. The once insular company is now considered a leader among the companies in many industries who are listening to outsiders they once might have shunned, including other businesses.
SNIP
| 144 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:17:26am |
re: #128 MandyManners
How would the MFM find one?
I asked about CAIR because it’s always the first to bitch about “unfair” treatment of Muslims and the like.
They’ve been kind of quiet lately.
| 145 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:17:57am |
re: #141 ggt
You know what I absolutely can’t stand?
Electronic devices that give orders. Right now there is some beeping going on and I have no idea from where.
I have to go shut it up and then clean dog ears.
Have a great day, Lizards!
Could be one of these.
Great way to drive a coworker to the brink of insanity, and possibly over it.
| 146 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:18:04am |
| 147 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:20:06am |
Republicans scoff at the “Jobs for Main Street Act” title that House Democrats put on their $174 billion package last month. They refer to it as “son of the stimulus,” the $787 billion economic recovery plan of nearly a year ago that they say was ineffective at producing jobs.
In its last vote of 2009, the House narrowly passed the bill, 217-212, without a single Republican supporter.
Democrats tick off the job prospects from the House bill’s $75 billion in infrastructure and public sector spending: tens of thousands of new construction jobs, 5,500 more police officers, 25,000 additional AmeriCorps members, 250,000 summer jobs for disadvantaged youth, 14,000 part-time jobs for parks and forestry workers.
“Why don’t we just put everyone in the United States on the federal government payroll and call it a day?” counters Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Calif.
SNIP
Yeah. Everyone knows the government creates job.
| 148 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:20:52am |
re: #134 The Sanity Inspector
Maybe there’s a bit of Levantine fatalism going on. Allah exalts whom He will, Allah smites whom He will, and Allah knows best.
How times have changed. When I was a kid even TV taught us that our role models should beBack then, it was Robert Young et al
Father Knows Best! [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 149 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:23:24am |
re: #147 MandyManners
Right now, one of the biggest drags on the economy is the alarming, mounting Federal debt and deficit, now at absolutely unprecedented levels and growing. Adding billions upon billions of dollars to this gigantic pile is not going to speed economic recovery.
| 150 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:24:47am |
Here’s another Raymond Chandler quote:
The best way to find out if you have any friends is to go broke. The ones that hang on longest are your friends. I don’t mean the ones that hang on forever. There aren’t any of those.
| 151 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:24:48am |
re: #147 MandyManners
They’ll be able to show that they do real soon. It won;t be reported this way (my prediction) but by the end of 2nd Q 2010 there will be a drop in the unemployment #’s. WHY?. The census bureau is about to hire thousands and thousands between April and May, paying $14.50-$21.00 an hour with milage reimbursment
| 152 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:25:54am |
re: #148 sattv4u2
I watched Khartom last night for the first time. Aside from the Hollywood added “history,” it did portray M. Achmad rather accurately.
| 153 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:26:08am |
re: #151 sattv4u2
Census work jobs are all over Craig’s List down here.
| 154 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:26:33am |
re: #149 SixDegrees
Right now, one of the biggest drags on the economy is the alarming, mounting Federal debt and deficit, now at absolutely unprecedented levels and growing. Adding billions upon billions of dollars to this gigantic pile is not going to speed economic recovery.
The war over the federal debt was fought and lost in the Reagan years. Remember all those scare stats about how a stack of dollars in the amount of the national debt would stretch to the moon and back? We’re probably out to Neptune by now. We’re over the falls.
| 155 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:27:35am |
re: #149 SixDegrees
Right now, one of the biggest drags on the economy is the alarming, mounting Federal debt and deficit, now at absolutely unprecedented levels and growing. Adding billions upon billions of dollars to this gigantic pile is not going to speed economic recovery.
Ahhh ,, no big deal. Just raise the Federal Debt Limit.
After all, isn’t that what you do at home? If your budget is set for $XXX in spending per month, and you and wifey really Really REALLY want some new toys, (big screen HDTV,,, a new car,,, etc) you just raise your “budget” # ,, no !?!?!?
| 156 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:28:56am |
re: #149 SixDegrees
Can you explain how the debt negatively affects the economy, please?
| 157 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:29:02am |
re: #153 Cannadian Club Akbar
Census work jobs are all over Craig’s List down here.
They’ve started advertising on local Atlanta radio stations. AM and FM, talk shows, sports shows, RAP, Hard Rock
I can’t WAIT to see who shows up at my door!!
| 158 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:30:21am |
re: #156 Obdicut
Can you explain how the debt negatively affects the economy, please?
We’re eating our seed corn.
| 159 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:30:49am |
re: #158 The Sanity Inspector
We’re eating our seed corn.
And slowly losing our sovereignity to our creditors.
| 160 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:31:32am |
| 161 |
The Sanity Inspector Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:31:56am |
re: #157 sattv4u2
They’ve started advertising on local Atlanta radio stations. AM and FM, talk shows, sports shows, RAP, Hard Rock
I can’t WAIT to see who shows up at my door!!
I’ve encountered a lot of people applying for census jobs. In this economy, the Bureau will have their pick of over-qualified applicants, I’d say.
| 162 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:32:46am |
re: #149 SixDegrees
Right now, one of the biggest drags on the economy is the alarming, mounting Federal debt and deficit, now at absolutely unprecedented levels and growing. Adding billions upon billions of dollars to this gigantic pile is not going to speed economic recovery.
Which will be the excuse to gouge us through taxation/fees/licenses/et cet..
| 163 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:32:48am |
re: #159 The Sanity Inspector
And slowly losing our sovereignity to our creditors.
“Chinese human rights violations? What Chinese human rights violations?”
| 164 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:32:59am |
re: #156 Obdicut
Can you explain how the debt negatively affects the economy, please?
Where do you think the gov’t has to go to get the money to cover the debt? For one place, they’ll have to raise taxes corporations. Corporations pay more in taxes, they’ll have less to give raises to existing employees or hire new ones. If I don’t have more money in my paycheck (or NO paycheck) I buy less. If I buy less the store(s) I usually buy from sell less. If they sell less they A) don’t need as many people working there and B) they buy less from their manufactureres. If they buy less from their suppliers the suppliers don’t have to make as many goods, meaning they don;t need as many workers AND they make less profit. If they make less profit ,,,,,,,,,
| 165 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:33:04am |
| 166 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:33:21am |
re: #151 sattv4u2
They’ll be able to show that they do real soon. It won;t be reported this way (my prediction) but by the end of 2nd Q 2010 there will be a drop in the unemployment #’s. WHY?. The census bureau is about to hire thousands and thousands between April and May, paying $14.50-$21.00 an hour with milage reimbursment
Aren’t those temporary jobs?
| 167 |
KenJen Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:33:22am |
re: #157 sattv4u2
They’ve started advertising on local Atlanta radio stations. AM and FM, talk shows, sports shows, RAP, Hard Rock
I can’t WAIT to see who shows up at my door!!
It might be me. I’m still looking for a job. Morning Lizards. Just saw John Bolton on Fox. Sure do miss that guy.
| 168 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:33:58am |
re: #162 MandyManners
Which will be the excuse to gouge us through taxation/fees/licenses/et cet..
And again, such solutions act as a drag on the economy.
| 169 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:34:17am |
| 170 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:34:57am |
re: #152 Walter L. Newton
I watched Khartom last night for the first time. Aside from the Hollywood added “history,” it did portray M. Achmad rather accurately.
Apropos of nothing - less than a month until the final season of Lost premieres.
| 171 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:35:36am |
| 172 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:35:54am |
| 173 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:36:00am |
re: #166 MandyManners
Aren’t those temporary jobs?
Yes,, but the unemployment numbers will go down for that time period, which coincidently takes us into November 2010,, geee ,,, what happens in November !?!?!
| 174 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:37:09am |
| 175 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:37:12am |
re: #167 KenJen
It might be me. I’m still looking for a job. Morning Lizards. Just saw John Bolton on Fox. Sure do miss that guy.
Wifey is looking into it, actually. Thats why I had the info (when they are hiring , salary range, etc) handy
| 176 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:37:49am |
re: #170 SixDegrees
Apropos of nothing - less than a month until the final season of Lost premieres.
No kidding, and I take a retail job that may effect my viewing, since it’s going to be Tue. nights and there is some chance that certain weeks I’ll be working certain evenings.
On the Khartom topic, if someone wants some insight into obsessed religious leaders, a little study of M. Achmad should be on the list. A lot of insight available in regards to the current situation.
| 177 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:39:14am |
Hey HoosierHoops, you out there? I see you are signed on.
| 178 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:39:41am |
| 179 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:39:43am |
re: #164 sattv4u2
No, they wouldn’t necessarily have to raise taxes on corporations. That’s one revenue stream, but there’s no reason they’d have to tax corporations in particular.
As the economy recovers, tax revenues will also go up.
I think the debt it too high myself— I wish that instead of a series of tax breaks, Bush had worked on paying down the debt so that when we were faced with a time we really, really did need to stimulate the economy, we could deficit spend without twinges.
I think we do too much deficit spending during prosperity, but the time to cut back on government spending is not during a recession.
re: #165 Walter L. Newton
Yes, to a certain extent. They own 22% of our foreign debt, with is 25% of the total debt. China is a country of a lot of concern, but owning a big but still very minority chunk of our debt doesn’t endow them with superpowers.
| 180 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:39:57am |
re: #176 Walter L. Newton
No kidding, and I take a retail job that may effect my viewing, since it’s going to be Tue. nights and there is some chance that certain weeks I’ll be working certain evenings.
On the Khartom topic, if someone wants some insight into obsessed religious leaders, a little study of M. Achmad should be on the list. A lot of insight available in regards to the current situation.
As someone who works all manner of shifts, days, nights, overnights, weekends, etc, I just want to thank whoever invented
A) the VCR/DVR/TIVO
and
B) re-runs
| 181 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:40:33am |
re: #166 MandyManners
Aren’t those temporary jobs?
Yes. I doubt there will be enough of them, either, to significantly impact the unemployment rate in an environment that continues to hemorrhage jobs on the order of tens of thousands per week.
What will happen, though, is that there will simply be no one left to lay off, and the unemployed either give up or accept significantly lower paying jobs as their benefits expire. Which will at least halt the downward trend. This may, in fact, already be happening.
In Detroit, with unemployment over 30% in the city, there’s not much place to go but sideways or even up.
| 182 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:40:35am |
re: #173 sattv4u2
Yes,, but the unemployment numbers will go down for that time period, which coincidently takes us into November 2010,, geee ,,, what happens in November !?!?!
People send a lot of Democrats packing.
| 183 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:40:42am |
| 184 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:40:51am |
re: #180 sattv4u2
As someone who works all manner of shifts, days, nights, overnights, weekends, etc, I just want to thank whoever invented
A) the VCR/DVR/TIVO
and
B) re-runs
And HULU.
| 185 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:40:55am |
| 186 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:42:12am |
re: #181 SixDegrees
Yes. I doubt there will be enough of them, either, to significantly impact the unemployment rate in an environment that continues to hemorrhage jobs on the order of tens of thousands per week.
What will happen, though, is that there will simply be no one left to lay off, and the unemployed either give up or accept significantly lower paying jobs as their benefits expire. Which will at least halt the downward trend. This may, in fact, already be happening.
In Detroit, with unemployment over 30% in the city, there’s not much place to go but sideways or even up.
Thirty per cent?
| 187 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:43:16am |
re: #181 SixDegrees
I was unemployed for over a year and even now I am very underpaid. But working on it.
| 188 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:43:31am |
re: #179 Obdicut
As the economy recovers, tax revenues will also go up
But doubling (or more) the debt is a recipe for disaster. Yes, as the economy recovers, tax revenues will also go up but at that point with inflation and the twofold debt it will never catch up
SO ,,, they’ll have to look for higher revenue streams to bridge the shortfall, and the only “revenue stream” the gov;’t has os to raise taxes
| 189 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:43:59am |
| 190 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:44:26am |
re: #180 sattv4u2
As someone who works all manner of shifts, days, nights, overnights, weekends, etc, I just want to thank whoever invented
A) the VCR/DVR/TIVO
and
B) re-runs
I don’t have those things.
| 191 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:45:03am |
| 192 |
jaunte Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:45:09am |
re: #176 Walter L. Newton
No kidding, and I take a retail job that may effect my viewing, since it’s going to be Tue. nights and there is some chance that certain weeks I’ll be working certain evenings.
On the Khartom topic, if someone wants some insight into obsessed religious leaders, a little study of M. Achmad should be on the list. A lot of insight available in regards to the current situation.
Good morning Walter. Interesting connection of M. Ahmad to the present:
In modern-day Sudan, Muhammad Ahmad is sometimes seen as a precursor of Sudanese nationalism. The Umma party claim to be his political descendants. Their leader Imam Sadiq al-Mahdi, is also the imam of the Ansar, the religious order that pledges allegiance to Muhammad Ahmad.
…
Also, the black colour on the Sudanese flag represents the Mahdist revolution.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 193 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:45:26am |
| 194 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:45:33am |
re: #183 Obdicut
which is 25% of the total debt.
Well, for a capitalist, I find that problematic, you don’t seem to.
| 195 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:47:02am |
re: #188 sattv4u2
Even if I granted your claim that the tax revenues would never catch up, it still doesn’t mean that the taxes raised would be corporate taxes, as you initially said. There is no particular reason to believe that that tax is the one that would be raised.
We do have a debt, and we do need to pay it down. We also, right now, in the midst of a recession, do need government spending to spur the recession. The time to focus on paying down the debt is in the salad days, not during a crisis.
re: #194 Walter L. Newton
Uh, as a capitalist, I think that foreign investors buying dollars is a pretty good thing for our economy. Can you explain why you don’t, as a capitalist?
| 196 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:48:28am |
The depth of ignorance is about to make me tear my hear out by the roots. bbiab
| 197 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:48:38am |
re: #178 HoosierHoops
Yes..I’m here
I think I saw a comment from you yesterday right before I sat down to watch a movie… you told me to write a Broadway play… I already have on, just need to get someone to produce it on Broadway..
Publisher
[Link: www.shop.nextstagepress.net…]
Weekly Variety Review
[Link: newton.acrossthebow.com…]
I don’t need the material, I have it, I need a theatre in New York with expendable funds.
I get regional theatre interest in the show, but it would be nice to see a major production someday.
| 198 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:51:01am |
re: #195 Obdicut
re: #194 Walter L. Newton
Uh, as a capitalist, I think that foreign investors buying dollars is a pretty good thing for our economy. Can you explain why you don’t, as a capitalist?
Well, when you have a country that owns so much debt that they can start suggesting that they have the power to change the foundational currency used to measure worth (the US dollar), that’s a problem.
Duh.
| 199 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:52:06am |
re: #195 Obdicut
it still doesn’t mean that the taxes raised would be corporate taxes, as you initially said.
What I said was “For one place, they’ll have to raise taxes corporations.
Okay, lets say they do NOT raise corporate taxes. They raise individual tax rates. And lets also say they only raise those for the top (pick a number) percent of wage earners
There is no way that will make up the deficit. ALSO, now you have the same problem. The top wage earners now have less to invest in small to medium ventures. Less investment means less jobs, less jobs means less revenue and individual spending, less individual spending means less goods purchased, and we’re right back to the cycle I laid out above
| 200 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:53:35am |
re: #198 Walter L. Newton
But they don’t have that power. That power is determined solely by the market.
Can you explain how you think China holding 6.25% of our total debt gives them the power to do that?
Do you think that Japan owning an equivalent amount of our public debt is also bad?
| 201 |
jaunte Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:54:32am |
re: #195 Obdicut
Too much foreign debt reduces the worth of the dollar, increasing energy prices.
A disproportionate share of the current deficit has been caused by financial industry debt, which is reduced by deleveraging (selling assets) which reduces those assets’ value.
| 202 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:54:55am |
re: #195 Obdicut
do need government spending to spur the recession.
What can the gov’t spend money on (money that they don’t have , btw) that will spur the economy? That will actually create jobs!?!?! ACTUAL jobs, not a one time, clean up that park and put in a new bike path job
| 203 |
Semper Fi Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:56:04am |
Good morning, Lizards
Lurking right now while doing brkfst
| 204 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:56:17am |
re: #202 sattv4u2
do need government spending to spur the recession.
What can the gov’t spend money on (money that they don’t have , btw) that will spur the economy? That will actually create jobs!?!?! ACTUAL jobs, not a one time, clean up that park and put in a new bike path job
Remember the Boy Scout trying to earn a merit badge? Cleaned a park and the union freaked.
| 205 |
deadletterboy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:56:32am |
I enjoyed yesterdays SMBC:
[Link: www.smbc-comics.com…]
Doesn’t really have anything to do with anything anyone is talking about, just a sort of good point and pretty funny. The site is full of gems.
| 206 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:56:50am |
re: #203 Semper Fi
Good morning, Lizards
Lurking right now while doing brkfst
Alex, can I buy a vowel!?!?
| 207 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 7:57:05am |
re: #199 sattv4u2
You keep just saying things like “there’s no way that’ll make up the deficit”. If you’re simply going to assume that, there’s no way to discuss this with you. I don’t mean that in an offensive way, but it is begging the question to a great degree. In addition, your view that taxes on higher-income people always lowers investment rates is not, to my knowledge, a proven phenomena in economics. Are you talking about higher capital gains tax or higher income tax?
| 208 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:00:31am |
Jobs..
[Link: jewishworldreview.com…]
| 209 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:00:39am |
re: #207 Obdicut
You keep just saying things like “there’s no way that’ll make up the deficit”. If you’re simply going to assume that, there’s no way to discuss this with you. I don’t mean that in an offensive way, but it is begging the question to a great degree. In addition, your view that taxes on higher-income people always lowers investment rates is not, to my knowledge, a proven phenomena in economics. Are you talking about higher capital gains tax or higher income tax?
Thats correct,, 100% so!
If you take in less than you spend, you will NEVER make up the shortfall
ALSO,, if you take in just as much as you spend,,, you will never make up the shortfall (the only thing you will do is not increase the shortfall, excluding, of course, the interest on the shortfall ,, OOOPPSSSS!!!)
You have to take in MORE than you spend. So , ,how do you do that?
TWO WAYS ,,,, CUT spending (not increase it)
OR ,, take in more. How does the gov;t “take in more” Again, where does the gov’t “get” it’s money from!?!?!?
| 210 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:01:40am |
| 211 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:02:25am |
| 212 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:02:56am |
re: #201 jaunte
Yes, the energy prices are one of the biggest problems were facing right now, and a weaker dollar does cause problems there. Absolutely true. However, countries like, oddly enough, China, artificially depreciate their own currency in order to help their exports sell— this may be changing somewhat as their own economy becomes consumerish. But one of the reasons that China owns dollars is to buy energy with them, so it’s actually better for them right now for the dollar to remain strong.
re: #202 sattv4u2
Uh, lots of stuff. Is this a serious question? The government could add another research lab at the CDC, for example— that’s a sufficient example to answer your question. But I know you’re asking for more than that.
They could do a lot more, a lot lot more, basic science research in the area of alternative energy, to get private companies, who do not have the incentive to do the basic science research, past technological hurdles.
They could do a broadband push in the US, the same way they did rural electricity.
They could create better public transportation networks in cities with substandard ones.
There’s lots and lots of examples of how government spending can help the economy. That doesn’t mean that all government spending would: spending government money helping E.O. Wilson’s lab = good. Spending government money helping Lysenko = Bad.
| 213 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:03:06am |
re: #210 Walter L. Newton
Prints it!
At my new job we have received 2-$20 bill forgeries. Not kidding.
| 214 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:04:22am |
re: #212 Obdicut
[snip]
They could do a lot more, a lot lot more, basic science research in the area of alternative energy, to get private companies, who do not have the incentive to do the basic science research, past technological hurdles.
[snip]
Don’t they do this now?
| 215 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:05:10am |
re: #209 sattv4u2
Again, when the economy recovers, tax revenues go up. That’s where the more comes from, in classical deficit spending.
I completely agree that spending should be cut, given the large number of government programs I think do no good or actively screw shit up— not to mention the overspending we do on the military. I support anything that identifies non-functional parts of the government and axes them. What worries me, though, is that a lot of people talking about cutting spending seem to have ideological rather than pragmatic targets.
| 216 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:06:29am |
re: #214 Walter L. Newton
Yes. They currently create a lot of jobs by doing science research— and yes, part of the stimulus did increase that research and create more science jobs. But I think they could do it to a greater degree than they did.
Anyway, it was an answer to the simple question of (paraphrased) ‘how can government spending ever create a real job?”
| 217 |
SixDegrees Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:07:15am |
It’s so heartening to see the left suddenly defending Reagonomics and invoking the Laffer Curve in defense of massive deficit spending, after spending a decade deriding and excoriating both.
| 218 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:07:20am |
re: #207 Obdicut
Higher corporate taxes will always be passed on to the end user - the consumer. Corporations aren’t going to absorb higher taxes when they can pass them on to those who use their goods and services. That, in turn, will reduce demand as higher prices will deter purchases and reduce spending overall.
Throw in the asinine scheme of tax incentives for certain industries and you have corporate tax compliance issues that drain billions more annually from corporate coffers that could be reinvested, distributed (as distributions), build up cash reserves, or be treated as profits.
Tax simplification is absolutely needed to bring sanity back to the tax system. There is an opportunity to do so where eliminating many tax breaks that have no business being in there (sugar tarriffs, biodiesel subsidies, ethanol subsidies, farm subsidies, etc.).
The fact is that at no time in our nation’s history have so many people not been required to pay any tax at all - nearly 50% of US citizens pay no tax at the end of the year. That also means that when there’s a recession, those who are left paying the taxes get whacked (since they are disproportionately also affected by recessions since they have more exposure), the tax revenues drop precipitously. Just look at NYS/NYC and see what happens when Wall Street has a recession - it’s a multibillion dollar hit on the city and state budgets, and throws everything out of whack because there’s no one else who can pick up the slack; the notion that the rich can pay a still greater share means that when the next recession comes, the budgets will be even more out of whack because governmental spending remains out of line with revenues.
| 219 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:08:03am |
re: #212 Obdicut
Uh, lots of stuff. Is this a serious question? The government could add another research lab at the CDC
LOL ,, I work less than a halg mile from the CDC. It has expanded 10 foldin the 10 years I’ve been in Atlanta. They are now putting the finishing touches on another high rise building there. You’re talking a few hundred jobs, not the hundred THOUSANDS this economy needs
They could create better public transportation networks in cities with substandard ones
In every major city, public transportation runs in the RED
SO ,,, the fed spends money upgrading it for city “A”, then city “A” is saddlled with a revenue drain year after year, so the federal gov;t has to give city “A” more federal money to sustaing it
GREAT plan!
| 220 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:08:34am |
re: #216 Obdicut
Yes. They currently create a lot of jobs by doing science research— and yes, part of the stimulus did increase that research and create more science jobs. But I think they could do it to a greater degree than they did.
Anyway, it was an answer to the simple question of (paraphrased) ‘how can government spending ever create a real job?”
What is the government doing about alternate and renewable energy research?
| 221 |
jaunte Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:08:55am |
Mandated spending keeps increasing.
Mandatory spending has claimed a much larger share of the federal budget over the past four decades, more than doubling from about one-fourth of federal spending in 1962 to just over half today (see figure 2). In contrast, the share of the budget going for discretionary spending has fallen from two-thirds in 1962 to about two-fifths now.
[Link: www.taxpolicycenter.org…]
| 222 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:09:47am |
re: #217 SixDegrees
It’s so heartening to see the left suddenly defending Reagonomics and invoking the Laffer Curve in defense of massive deficit spending, after spending a decade deriding and excoriating both.
Bingo… you caught my drift with Obdicut… funny, Obdicut didn’t, yet at the same time defending Reagonomics with a passion.
Humor on a Sunday morning… refreshing.
| 223 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:10:55am |
re: #215 Obdicut
You complain about spending on national defense, and yet that’s one area that’s specifically spelled out in the Constitution as a fundamental requirement of the federal government - to protect and defend the nation from threats - to raise an army and navy.
Much of the spending on national defense goes not only to supporting an existing military but provides significant funds to research and development that can be used in civilian applications.
But you’re right that there is so much waste in the system that there is plenty of stuff to cut. The problem is that everyone in Congress has an interest in some program to be cut so nothing gets cut.
| 225 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:13:21am |
re: #223 lawhawk
You complain about spending on national defense, and yet that’s one area that’s specifically spelled out in the Constitution as a fundamental requirement of the federal government - to protect and defend the nation from threats - to raise an army and navy
Not to mention the HUGE number of GREAT paying jobs at private companies that have defense contracts, just the type of jobs Obdicut wants to see the gov’t “create”!
| 226 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:13:21am |
re: #217 SixDegrees
The Laffer curve doesn’t actually apply in this circumstance, unless you mean that you think the ‘left’ (whoever they are) are saying that rather than being on the left side of the curve, we’re on the right— which would be a completely reasonable thing to say.
Can you explain how you see the left invoking Reagonomics in any way?
You also haven’t yet explained how you feel the debt negatively affects the economy.
re: #218 lawhawk
A) Products and services are sold at the price the market would bear, so no, corporate taxes are not always passed down to the consumer.
B) I don’t know why you’re talking about corporate taxes anyway.
C)
The fact is that at no time in our nation’s history have so many people not been required to pay any tax at all - nearly 50% of US citizens pay no tax at the end of the year.
Sure, if you ignore American history before the income tax, that is. Also, your sentence was worded incorrectly— you say that many people are not required to pay tax, but what you mean is ‘income tax’. Those people pay money in other taxes.
re: #219 sattv4u2
You asked how the government could create a job. I answered. If you now want an answer of how the government can create thousands of jobs, I also answered that, in the rest of my explanation. If you disagree, that’s fine.
re: #222 Walter L. Newton
Can you explain where you see Reagonomics?
| 227 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:16:15am |
re: #223 lawhawk
I complain about overspending on national defense, so I have no clue why you appeal to it actually being in the constitution. I didn’t argue against the concept of defense spending, just overspending on it. I know you’re not saying it’s okay to overspend on something because it’s actually spelled out in the constitution*, but it came out sounding like that. So I’m at a loss as to what it is you’re actually saying about defense spending.
*We could have some bitching post roads, then, anyway.
| 228 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:16:19am |
re: #219 sattv4u2
Mass transit is subsidized, but so is the road infrastructure for all cars and trucks. That doesn’t mean that mass transit can’t or shouldn’t be utilized in high density areas, but that’s a big problem.
There aren’t as many high density regions in the country that can truly support mass transit - particularly subways or light rail, primarily because they don’t have population densities to support it or that locations aren’t amenable to siting mass transit (the station stops aren’t where people want them or need them to go from their homes to their destinations). The convenience factor also plays a huge role.
Another thing to consider is that when NYC mass transit runs in the red, consider that it handles more people annually and daily than all of the roads in the City could possibly handle - there’s no way that the City could be the City without mass transit. However, there are ways to make mass transit still more efficient and cost effective.
But trying to instill mass transit in areas that aren’t sufficiently dense enough makes little sense and wastes resources. That too goes to land use planning where people think that they need McMansions and that it is seen as more affordable to live further away from urban centers (where the work is) and commute by car, rather than living in a more dense fashion where the work is down the block or a subway stop away.
| 229 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:16:50am |
re: #226 Obdicut
A) Products and services are sold at the price the market would bear, so no, corporate taxes are not always passed down to the consumer
1,000% incorrect
EVERY business tax is passed down to the consumer, at every level, be it retail, service industries,, ALL
You asked how the government could create a job
Yes, because I thought you had a serious answer. A couple hundred jobs over the last 10 years at the CDC. Putting money into a black hole (red, actually) of public transportation!!?!?
wow
| 230 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:18:21am |
re: #228 lawhawk
Obdicut brought up mass transit as federal job creation program. I was pointing out that in the end it ends up costing the gov’t due to those subsidies, money the gov;t does not have
| 231 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:24:11am |
re: #229 sattv4u2
I’m sorry, this is not true. Companies sell products at the optimal price point—disregarding other factors like luring customers in by having them by a platform, etc.. That price point is not simply “production cost +X” (and taxes function as just another production cost) but instead the optimal price point based on how many people will buy it and what the profit margin will be.
If it costs your company ten cents to make a napkin, and you can sell a hundred at $1 a piece, but ten thousand at twenty cents apiece (assuming production costs stay the same) then it makes sense to sell them at twenty cents apiece
If your production cost rises, the price point may shift around, or it may not— it depends how elastic your market is. If you and a competitor are both selling napkins at twenty cents, and your production costs rise by a cent per item because of a tax, you have a choice; you can raise your prices, or you can let your profits erode a little bit. Your competitor has the same choice.
re: #229 sattv4u2
For public transport, I was actually talking about the economic benefits to other businesses. Having public transport is a good thing for businesses depending on the lower wage workers in the income pool, and it makes it easier for them to pay them lower wages, as well.
| 232 |
lawhawk Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:24:20am |
re: #226 Obdicut
Supply and demand will determine the prices, but when you have higher costs, the supply side (total costs of the input - cost of goods sold, taxes, etc.) will determine the price by the seller, and where the buyer sees the prices too high, they will either cut back - and reduce demand. That means that the company will again have to either increase or absorb the costs - losing money in the process. That’s how companies go out of business when they can’t recoup their costs. Successful businesses manage to pass the costs on to the consumers. Unsuccessful ones don’t.
You are right that those people pay other taxes - income tax is the tax we’re talking about so it was implied, but there are other taxes all people pay - regressive taxes like sales tax, along with property taxes for homeowners, taxes and fees on vehicles and motor fuels, sin taxes, etc.
Even there, the governments often offset those taxes and fees for the low income tax brackets in calculating their tax obligations.
re: #227 Obdicut
When you say that there’s waste in national defense, I’m curious to hear what you consider waste? That’s often an argument made from the left, and yet when it comes to spending, they just look to chop spending overall, without regard to the necessity down the road for unforeseen events.
| 233 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:29:23am |
re: #232 lawhawk
I’m sorry, no, that is not how pricing of goods and services in capitalism works. Items do not cost ‘production cost + X’ in any real market.
When you say that there’s waste in national defense, I’m curious to hear what you consider waste? That’s often an argument made from the left, and yet when it comes to spending, they just look to chop spending overall, without regard to the necessity down the road for unforeseen events.
Oh, those darn people on the ‘left’! They’re so bad!
I think first and foremost, a total overhaul of the accounting practices of the armed forces. We don’t even know how much money we’re wasting, and what we’re really getting for it.
Here’s noted Lefty, Donald Rumsfeld, talking about that:
| 234 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:30:12am |
re: #231 Obdicut
I’m sorry, this is not true
I’m sorry, but it is 100% true
EVERY cost a business incurs is factored in to the selling point, be it a good or a service. As a former multiple small business owner for over 20 years, both in retail and service, and setting up those “books” with the help of other small and large business owners as well as the SBA that is the FIRST thing you are taught
| 235 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:35:18am |
re: #234 sattv4u2
Well, I’m not sure what to say. You’re claiming personal authority, but, likewise, I’ve both owned and run a business and currently work in a business where I deal with production costs and our retail prices on a daily basis. We never, ever say, “our production cost went up so our price is going to move”. We say “our production costs went up for that line of products so the profit margin on it dropped”. We don’t really have many direct competitors, so it’s harder for us to feel out ideal price point, so we tend to underprice as a conscious strategy.
Anyway, we’re trying to sell the most units we possibly can at the optimal profit margin. Obviously the margin has to be above zero, but if we priced goods by adding up how much they cost us to make and then slapping an arbitrary number on top of that, we’d go out of business very soon.
| 236 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:41:55am |
re: #234 sattv4u2
Mmm— I just thought, if your businesses were selling in a very inelastic market— as in, there’s always pretty much the same demand for stuff no matter what the price point (within reason)— or was an inelastic good— as in, only a strictly limited number can possibly be produced every year— then you could have just done production costs + X.
| 237 |
darthstar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:43:28am |
Mornin’ folks. Reviewing the last 40-50 posts, it looks like everyone’s moved on to lighter topics. /
| 238 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:44:53am |
re: #235 Obdicut
our production costs went up for that line of products so the profit margin on it dropped
And if the profit margin drops several things happen
Less profit means less taxes paid
Less profit means less available capital to spend on raises, hiring, upgrade of equipment (which of course means that equipment manufacturer sells less equipmnet, which means they don’t need as many workers, or the current workers don;t get raises, or that company can’t afford to up grade THEIR equipment and will pay less taxes!)
but if we priced goods by adding up how much they cost us to make and then slapping an arbitrary number on top of that
It’s not a matter of “slapping on an arbitrary number on top of that”, but as a base point you HAVE to know what manufacuring a “WIDGET” will cost you per “WIDGET”, factoring in ALL costs, labor, material, EBITDA, all overhead (is the building you’re doing business out of rented or owned, do you have a mortgage, energy costs, advertising, yearly maintenenace on building and equipment) and (ta da) TAXES
| 239 |
Obdicut Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:47:19am |
re: #237 darthstar
Here’s some great levity: Did you know the flow or price points in certain markets can be directly modeled with nothing more than EM fields?
re: #238 sattv4u2
Corporate taxes aren’t a hugely significant revenue stream anyway. And I’d prefer to abolish them.
And of course you have to have a base cost you won’t go below. That’s completely besides the point. When I say ‘production costs’, I really do mean complete production costs.
| 240 |
darthstar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:50:36am |
re: #239 Obdicut
So buy high sell low? An economist I am not.
| 241 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:50:59am |
re: #239 Obdicut
When I say ‘production costs’, I really do mean complete production costs.
Then you “mean” all the factors (and more) that I listed
(more, like ,,,, companies matching 401k contributions, companies portion of health care costs, companies portion of disability ins., companies licenses and permit costs)((damn, the list just goes on and on and on!!!))
| 242 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:51:32am |
Well Lizards.. Time to head out for the Colts party..
Have a good one
| 243 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:51:47am |
re: #240 darthstar
So buy high sell low? An economist I am not.
But with that knowledge you qualify for a gov’t job!
//
| 244 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:52:09am |
re: #242 HoosierHoops
Well Lizards.. Time to head out for the Colts party..
Have a good one
Who are they not playing today!?!?
//
| 245 |
HoosierHoops Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:52:53am |
re: #244 sattv4u2
Who are they not playing today!?!?
//
The Bills.. I’m going for the food and drink…Nobody is going to play
| 246 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:53:42am |
re: #244 sattv4u2
Who are they not playing today!?!?
//
Buffalo. I don’t think 1/2 their starters even bothered to make the trip. I’m betting Peyton plays one series, maybe 2 to try to get Clark his 100 catches, and then sits.
| 247 |
abolitionist Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:54:40am |
Suppose everyone had an economic and social status indistinguishable from anyone else’s. Suppose everyone valued everything similarly - work, play, health, family, friends, entertainment, education, skills, property.
Utopia or nightmare?
I maintain that the closer we get to such a state, the closer we get to a complete collapse of our economies and of civilization.
Economic activities, trade and specialization of labor depend on differences in peoples internal valuations of things —different skills, resources, likes, dislikes, and preferences. Erase all such differences, and economies would flatline, and governments would collapse.
Far too many people view such differences as evidence of evil, or the source of all problems in the world. They may be idealists, but they are dangerous.
I believe in equality of opportunity as an ideal, but not in equality of results.
| 248 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:54:54am |
re: #244 sattv4u2
Who are they not playing today!?!?
//
who cares?…Cowboys vs Eagles in Dallas for the division title….game of the century at least
| 250 |
darthstar Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:55:56am |
re: #244 sattv4u2
The big question of the day is, will the Vikings show up for their game today?
| 251 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:58:50am |
re: #250 darthstar
The big question of the day is, will the Vikings show up for their game today?
will Peterson get it going again?…he has caused all sorts of problem for the Vikings…he needs a hundred yard game, if he does the Vikes will win…imo
| 252 |
RogueOne Sun, Jan 3, 2010 8:59:24am |
re: #250 darthstar
The big question of the day is, will the Vikings show up for their game today?
They just need to make sure their grandpa quarterback takes his nap//
| 253 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:00:00am |
re: #249 Obdicut
Yes, like those.
AND ,,, corporate taxes are anywhere from 15%-39%, depending on the taxable income of the corp. Hardly insignificant when factoring it into cost of doing business
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 255 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:00:30am |
BBL ,,,,, son and his sleep over freinds are invading the kitchen!
| 256 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:05:27am |
re: #247 abolitionist
Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?
| 257 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:06:03am |
re: #256 wozzablog
Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?
Who is keeping them down?
| 258 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:08:47am |
re: #256 wozzablog
Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?
Sure… let’s keep people from making money and spending it. Let’s keep people away from new technology, capitalist don’t need to sell that stuff, and certainly keep health care away from those people, don’t want anyone living to long and spending all that money.
Jerk.
| 259 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:09:19am |
re: #258 Walter L. Newton
Sure… let’s keep people from making money and spending it. Let’s keep people away from new technology, capitalist don’t need to sell that stuff, and certainly keep health care away from those people, don’t want anyone living to long and spending all that money.
Jerk.
Oops… did I say that?
| 260 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:11:25am |
re: #257 MandyManners
“they” is keeping “we” down.
but seriously - am just asking a question of abolitionist. If it was approaching that everyone did have the same goals and aspirations, that class, race and religious borders were breaking down and everyone was becoming equal - under those circumstances, in order to preserve the status quo of societal hierachy - would those in favour of the hierachy wish to keep people down?
| 261 |
abolitionist Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:12:49am |
re: #256 wozzablog
Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?
No.
| 262 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:13:18am |
re: #260 wozzablog
“they” is keeping “we” down.
but seriously - am just asking a question of abolitionist. If it was approaching that everyone did have the same goals and aspirations, that class, race and religious borders were breaking down and everyone was becoming equal - under those circumstances, in order to preserve the status quo of societal hierachy - would those in favour of the hierachy wish to keep people down?
No, you’re setting up a straw man that Abolitionist never even suggested. You were baiting him/her. Caught you, you loose.
| 263 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:14:49am |
re: #260 wozzablog
“they” is keeping “we” down.
but seriously - am just asking a question of abolitionist. If it was approaching that everyone did have the same goals and aspirations, that class, race and religious borders were breaking down and everyone was becoming equal - under those circumstances, in order to preserve the status quo of societal hierachy - would those in favour of the hierachy wish to keep people down?
It’s not that there is some being in favor of a hierarchy. It’s a fact of human nature that some will rise and others will fall and others will stay where they are.
I can’t believe I’m actually writing this.
| 264 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:16:06am |
re: #259 Walter L. Newton
Yes. yes you did.
I was asking a question of abolitionist who raised some very interesting points. It’s a question of whether people would *want* to keep people down in order to preserve the current system. Or whether the advocates would just let things keep going.
| 265 |
Feline Fearless Leader Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:16:33am |
re: #235 Obdicut
[snip]
Anyway, we’re trying to sell the most units we possibly can at the optimal profit margin. Obviously the margin has to be above zero, but if we priced goods by adding up how much they cost us to make and then slapping an arbitrary number on top of that, we’d go out of business very soon.
And the margins do not have to be above zero in the short turn. Corporations in areas whose profit margins typically run in a cyclical nature (my experience is with chemicals such as polypropylene) will accept negative margins for a period of time in order to maintain a customer base and meet some contracts while waiting for the cycle to swing to a point where the margins are better.
| 266 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:19:24am |
Ok. I’ll be off.
This won’t go anywhere productive. I wasn’t trying to bait - i should’ve asked a more substantive question.
| 267 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:19:59am |
re: #264 wozzablog
Yes. yes you did.
I was asking a question of abolitionist who raised some very interesting points. It’s a question of whether people would *want* to keep people down in order to preserve the current system. Or whether the advocates would just let things keep going.
No, you suggested that Abolitionist would want to keep ‘people down,” not “people” in general. You were addressing Abolitionist directly, not some universal “people.” Look at your question again…
“Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?”
Where is the universal “people” you claim you were addressing?
| 268 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:20:49am |
re: #267 Walter L. Newton
No, you suggested that Abolitionist would want to keep ‘people down,” not “people” in general. You were addressing Abolitionist directly, not some universal “people.” Look at your question again…
“Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?”
Where is the universal “people” you claim you were addressing?
DA MAN!
| 269 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:20:57am |
re: #248 albusteve
who cares?…Cowboys vs Eagles in Dallas for the division title…game of the century at least
I’m really looking forward to it, that’s for sure,
| 270 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:22:16am |
re: #266 wozzablog
Ok. I’ll be off.
This won’t go anywhere productive. I wasn’t trying to bait - i should’ve asked a more substantive question.
You should have asked a more honest question instead of trying to put words into Abolitionist’s mouth.
| 271 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:24:54am |
re: #267 Walter L. Newton
No, you suggested that Abolitionist would want to keep ‘people down,” not “people” in general. You were addressing Abolitionist directly, not some universal “people.” Look at your question again…
“Would you state it as a goal to keep some people down in order to preserve the status quo?”
Where is the universal “people” you claim you were addressing?
And guess what… I’m not sorry for pointing this out. It seems to be a constant tactic of some folks to ALWAYS try to put words into others mouth.
Reading is comprehension… try it sometimes, if helps to keep you from looking stupid.
| 272 |
abolitionist Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:25:12am |
re: #260 wozzablog
“they” is keeping “we” down.
but seriously - am just asking a question of abolitionist. If it was approaching that everyone did have the same goals and aspirations, that class, race and religious borders were breaking down and everyone was becoming equal - under those circumstances, in order to preserve the status quo of societal hierachy - would those in favour of the hierachy wish to keep people down?
My point is that many idealists are woefully ignorant of fundamental economic principles. With identical valuations of things between potential partners in a trade of exchange (be it labor, resources, or whatever), no one is any the richer for it, in any sense of the word. The incentive for trade falls to zero. Taxes, any at all, become intolerable, as profits approach zero.
| 273 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:25:22am |
re: #270 Walter L. Newton
You got something against speaking troof ta power?
| 274 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:26:44am |
re: #266 wozzablog
Ok. I’ll be off.
This won’t go anywhere productive. I wasn’t trying to bait - i should’ve asked a more substantive question.
Don’t leave, but do stand back for a short time. You made a mistake, but it’s one you can recover from.
I also just found out that the Cowboys/ Eagles game may not even be showing on the networks here in Chicago. I’ll still follow it as closely as I can.
| 275 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:26:52am |
re: #273 MandyManners
You got something against speaking troof ta power?
Not sure what you mean? what is “troof ta power?”
| 276 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:28:21am |
re: #275 Walter L. Newton
Not sure what you mean? what is “troof ta power?”
Trooth to power. It’s a radical catchphrase describing the act of questioning the power structure or anything else one thinks is bad.
| 277 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:28:53am |
re: #276 MandyManners
Trooth to power. It’s a radical catchphrase describing the act of questioning the power structure or anything else one thinks is bad.
What is “trooth?” I’m still confused?
| 278 |
rwdflynavy Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:30:10am |
re: #276 MandyManners
Trooth to power. It’s a radical catchphrase describing the act of questioning the power structure or anything else one thinks is bad.
Used by the left when they aren’t in power.
| 279 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:30:39am |
re: #274 Dark_Falcon
Don’t leave, but do stand back for a short time. You made a mistake, but it’s one you can recover from.
I also just found out that the Cowboys/ Eagles game may not even be showing on the networks here in Chicago. I’ll still follow it as closely as I can.
every game is broadcast in ABQ…neener
| 280 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:31:19am |
| 281 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:31:47am |
| 282 |
MandyManners Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:32:21am |
| 283 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:32:47am |
| 284 |
albusteve Sun, Jan 3, 2010 9:35:57am |
okay, someone has their…
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