Overnight Open Thread
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It’s so hard to believe in anything anymore. If it weren’t for my lucky astrology mood watch, I wouldn’t believe in anything.
— Steve Martin
766 comments
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:34:29pm |
"Yup, that's the punk who cut in front of me in the line for the slide at the playground. Gimme that, Imma fuck 'em up!"
| 2 |
Locker Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:37:07pm |
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wee fury Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:37:22pm |
I was going to shout - 'A clean slate'! But, you sure goofed that up for me, Slumbering Behemoth.
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WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:40:26pm |
Steve Martin doing Maxwell's Silver Hammer in the Bee-Gees Sergeant Pepper movie = best thing ever
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:55:37pm |
re: #2 Locker
That video went Epic Meme over night. Here is a vid with some clips of interviews of both guys, but mostly of the dude who got beat down.
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:56:18pm |
re: #3 wee fury
I was going to shout - 'A clean slate'! But, you sure goofed that up for me, Slumbering Behemoth.
More than happy to oblige, WF.
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SteveC Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:58:08pm |
Can't sleep, cardiologists might get me! :)
Good night morning, LGF
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:59:28pm |
More dispatches from the Wingnut War on Women:
Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage
In addition to criminalizing an intentional attempt to induce a miscarriage or abortion, the bill also creates a standard that could make women legally responsible for miscarriages caused by "reckless" behavior.
Using the legal standard of "reckless behavior" all a district attorney needs to show is that a woman behaved in a manner that is thought to cause miscarriage, even if she didn't intend to lose the pregnancy. Drink too much alcohol and have a miscarriage? Under the new law such actions could be cause for prosecution.
"This creates a law that makes any pregnant woman who has a miscarriage potentially criminally liable for murder," says Missy Bird, executive director of Planned Parenthood Action Fund of Utah. Bird says there are no exemptions in the bill for victims of domestic violence or for those who are substance abusers. The standard is so broad, Bird says, "there nothing in the bill to exempt a woman for not wearing her seatbelt who got into a car accident."
Such a standard could even make falling down stairs a prosecutable event, such as the recent case in Iowa where a pregnant woman who fell down the stairs at her home was arrested under the suspicion she was trying to terminate her pregnancy.
"This statute and the standards chosen leave a large number of pregnant women vulnerable to arrest even though they have no intention of ending a pregnancy," Paltrow said. "Whether or not the legislature intended this bill to become a tool for policing and punishing all pregnant women, if enacted this law would permit prosecution of a pregnant woman who stayed with her abusive husband because she was unable to leave. Not leaving would, under the 'reckless' standard, constitute conduct that consciously disregarded a substantial risk," Paltrow explained.
Welcome, Republic of Gilead.
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soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 10:59:55pm |
re: #2 Locker
Punk gonna need some Amber Lamps.
A few years ago on the train, there was this creep hitting on this very petite girl. I mean, thin frame and pretty thin. She was being polite, but made it clear she wasn't interested. As she got up to get off the train, he slapped her in the ass. She turned around, and like a god damn ninja master, swift-kicked him right in the family jewels. Perfect form, like she knew exactly what she was doing. No lucky shot or anything. He dropped like a bag of rocks. It was the most epic thing I have ever seen in my life.
I wish I could have taped that shit. Luckily though, it is burned in my memory.
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soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:05:38pm |
re: #12 SteveC
She shoots, she scores!
The air was sucked out of the train—which was packed during rush hour—when she did it. It is a completely unique sound to hear about 50 people gasp all at the same time.
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:06:26pm |
re: #13 soap_man
The air was sucked out of the train—which was packed during rush hour—when she did it. It is a completely unique sound to hear about 50 people gasp all at the same time.
Good for her. My suspicion is that she did indeed know exactly what she was doing, and she'd had to do it before.
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:08:27pm |
re: #10 iceweasel
My grandmother, in her day, miscarried several times. Though the side effects were not known at the time by physicians, et al, she was taking a commonly prescribed diet pill that caused this.
Using the legal standard of "reckless behavior" all a district attorney needs to show is that a woman behaved in a manner that is thought to cause miscarriage, even if she didn't intend to lose the pregnancy.
People who propose such things make me sick.
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soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:10:05pm |
re: #14 iceweasel
Good for her. My suspicion is that she did indeed know exactly what she was doing, and she'd had to do it before.
I applaud her. I was sitting no more than 6 or 7 feet from this whole episode. Even before the ass slap, the guy had it coming.
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Lidane Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:12:48pm |
re: #10 iceweasel
More dispatches from the Wingnut War on Women:
Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage
*sigh*
I'd go off on a rant about this, but it's late and I'd rather get some sleep tonight. Instead, a relaxing tune before bed:
G'night Lizards! :)
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:13:55pm |
re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth
My grandmother, in her day, miscarried several times. Though the side effects were not known at the time by physicians, et al, she was taking a commonly prescribed diet pill that caused this.
People who propose such things make me sick.
How awful-- I'm so sorry about your grandmother.
I put the link in to the case in Iowa, which I posted here before in spinoffs-- a really terrible story. This (pregnant) woman was on the phone with her husband, who had just walked out on her and their 2 other children (both under 5). She had a very upsetting conversation with him (as one would! she's unemployed and he isn't sending money, and allegedly said he wouldn't be sending any) and afterwards blacked out and fell down the stairs.* She called 911.
A week or so later she voluntarily made another trip to the ER to make sure the fetus was ok. During this she confided to the ER nurse what was going on, said she had been having doubts about having the baby but was going to have it (which is why she was in the ER that time, after all).
Nurse and doc turned her in.
This is all at that RH link, the second one. *
BTW, the circumstances of that fall down the stairs do look a little suspicious-- as in, it looks like her husband came over and beat her up.
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Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:14:51pm |
re: #10 iceweasel
More dispatches from the Wingnut War on Women:
Utah Bill Criminalizes MiscarriageWelcome, Republic of Gilead.
Saw that yesterday. After reading some of the other news in the previous threads I am practicing a great deal of self censorship. I don't know where all of these mutants are coming from but it seems like they've all been hatching since last year.
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:20:32pm |
re: #20 Gus 802
Saw that yesterday. After reading some of the other news in the previous threads I am practicing a great deal of self censorship. I don't know where all of these mutants are coming from but it seems like they've all been hatching since last year.
Well-- I posted yesterday about the proposed FL law which has passed the House there criminalising all abortion, even in rape and incest. (threatening the life of the mother is the sole exception).
This shit isn't actually happening any more than it usually does. It was constantly happening under Bush as well. State legislatures try to outlaw or restrict abortion at the local level.
Oftentimes they don't even care if it passes, or expect it to pass-- what they want is for it to make it to SCOTUS and result in either Roe being overturned, or (same difference) states achieving the right to 'decide for themselves'.
The Creationist/ID strategy of grass roots/local action -- take over the school boards, work from the bottom up -- is one they lifted from the ongoing war on choice.
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Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:24:51pm |
re: #21 iceweasel
Well-- I posted yesterday about the proposed FL law which has passed the House there criminalising all abortion, even in rape and incest. (threatening the life of the mother is the sole exception).
This shit isn't actually happening any more than it usually does. It was constantly happening under Bush as well. State legislatures try to outlaw or restrict abortion at the local level.Oftentimes they don't even care if it passes, or expect it to pass-- what they want is for it to make it to SCOTUS and result in either Roe being overturned, or (same difference) states achieving the right to 'decide for themselves'.
The Creationist/ID strategy of grass roots/local action -- take over the school boards, work from the bottom up -- is one they lifted from the ongoing war on choice.
Right you mentioned that. This from the so called pro-life side. OK, I'll say some of the pro-life side. Odd how this is typically the same side that says that health care is not a right. Of course by now we know their marching orders. According to them it's all about a right to life; guns, guns, guns; an assorted variety of sexual phobias; creationist mythology; Lincoln as tyrant; and life back as it was in 1776 when life sucked the big caboose.
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:26:16pm |
re: #19 iceweasel
How awful-- I'm so sorry about your grandmother.
She's a soldier. Not literally, in the sense that someone serves in the military, but she soldiers on none the less. She wouldn't want you feeling bad for her.
Back to what you linked. I don't know what kind of penalty there should be for someone who pays a person to beat them in an effort to induce a miscarriage, but the proposed law there seems to open too many doors into prosecuting women in situations like my grandma's.
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:27:36pm |
re: #21 iceweasel
The Creationist/ID strategy of grass roots/local action -- take over the school boards, work from the bottom up -- is one they lifted from the ongoing war on choice.
I should add here-- this is one reason why I sometimes get angry at people who are complacent about Roe and say 'it won't be overturned' (true) or just assume these attempts will be blocked at the state-level.
Roe isn't likely to be overturned--but that's only because Obama's in the WH and we'll have a couple of appts under him.
It really is a big deal, bigger than the creationism/ID situation, and people are willing to see that letting one school district throw out evolution and teach ID instead would be a huge deal. But they're complacent about Roe, just as they're complacent about, say, VA seeking to defund Planned Parenthood. (bear in mind also that pace wingnuts, abortion is the smallest of the services PP offers).
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Bagua Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:28:14pm |
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soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:30:38pm |
re: #22 Gus 802
Right you mentioned that. This from the so called pro-life side. OK, I'll say some of the pro-life side. Odd how this is typically the same side that says that health care is not a right. Of course by now we know their marching orders. According to them it's all about a right to life; guns, guns, guns; an assorted variety of sexual phobias; creationist mythology; Lincoln as tyrant; and life back as it was in 1776 when life sucked the big caboose.
Just more morally inconsistent arguments. I'm pro-gun rights, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and pro-small government. Why? Because the government should stay out of people's personal choices whenever possible. I can see valid points in any argument against any of my beliefs (well, most. I don't think there is a valid argument against gay marriage) but I would like to think that I'm consistent.
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Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:31:05pm |
re: #24 iceweasel
I should add here-- this is one reason why I sometimes get angry at people who are complacent about Roe and say 'it won't be overturned' (true) or just assume these attempts will be blocked at the state-level.
Roe isn't likely to be overturned--but that's only because Obama's in the WH and we'll have a couple of appts under him.
It really is a big deal, bigger than the creationism/ID situation, and people are willing to see that letting one school district throw out evolution and teach ID instead would be a huge deal. But they're complacent about Roe, just as they're complacent about, say, VA seeking to defund Planned Parenthood. (bear in mind also that pace wingnuts, abortion is the smallest of the services PP offers).
Looks to me like Virginia is going to be going all out this year on reversing a lot of legislation and laws. You know, to bring it more in line with Dominionist theory.
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:31:33pm |
re: #22 Gus 802
Right you mentioned that. This from the so called pro-life side. OK, I'll say some of the pro-life side. Odd how this is typically the same side that says that health care is not a right. Of course by now we know their marching orders. According to them it's all about a right to life; guns, guns, guns; an assorted variety of sexual phobias; creationist mythology; Lincoln as tyrant; and life back as it was in 1776 when life sucked the big caboose.
Yep. And how many colonial cemeteries have women dead at extremely young ages from bearing many, many children?
I don't know anything about midwivery in the colonial period, but you can bet anything that abortions and miscarriages were induced, just as they've always been, and that there were various strategies for preventing pregnancy, just as there have always been.
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WindHorse Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:33:04pm |
re: #25 Bagua
My saddles waiting.... come and jump on it...
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:33:40pm |
re: #24 iceweasel
(bear in mind also that pace wingnuts, abortion is the smallest of the services PP offers)
You're wrong. PP is a baby killing factory, nothing more.
/This message has been brought to you by Theocrats Pretending to be Conservatives.
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Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:35:38pm |
re: #26 soap_man
Just more morally inconsistent arguments. I'm pro-gun rights, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and pro-small government. Why? Because the government should stay out of people's personal choices whenever possible. I can see valid points in any argument against any of my beliefs (well, most. I don't think there is a valid argument against gay marriage) but I would like to think that I'm consistent.
Hope you didn't mind my gun comment. I consider myself pro-arms for the most part and also support the 2nd Amendment. Just that I get a little worn out seeing the gun rights issue on the front pages almost daily. I reckon it's because of the current president. But it's been in the forefront in my state since I moved here and I suppose everywhere else in the country.
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WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:35:48pm |
re: #28 iceweasel
Completely off topic, I will not stand by and let you take the name of one of my heroes in vain! :D
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soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:36:53pm |
re: #30 Slumbering Behemoth
You're wrong. PP is a baby killing factory, nothing more.
/This message has been brought to you by Theocrats Pretending to be Conservatives.
A friend of mine went to a PP in the Chicago suburbs, not for an abortion, but for something else (a pap smear I think.) This was a conservative area, so she was called all sorts of names from the folks lingering outside.
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WindHorse Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:38:40pm |
...Harry Reid says....
/and then my brain shuts off...
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WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:38:50pm |
re: #33 soap_man
A friend of mine went to a PP in the Chicago suburbs, not for an abortion, but for something else (a pap smear I think.) This was a conservative area, so she was called all sorts of names from the folks lingering outside.
They just hang out there 24 hours a day to be cocks to people?
I know the USA is technically one country, but it sure doesn't seem like it.
| 36 |
The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:41:02pm |
re: #23 Slumbering Behemoth
She's a soldier. Not literally, in the sense that someone serves in the military, but she soldiers on none the less. She wouldn't want you feeling bad for her.
Back to what you linked. I don't know what kind of penalty there should be for someone who pays a person to beat them in an effort to induce a miscarriage, but the proposed law there seems to open too many doors into prosecuting women in situations like my grandma's.
Fetal homicide laws are typically backdoor wars to make an end run around abortion laws. That's one reason why they have to be so carefully worded-- and one reason why they often are not.
I don't know enough about the miscarriage case. The girl was 17 and 7 months pregnant. Now she's 18, the baby was delivered, and she wants custody.re: #27 Gus 802
Looks to me like Virginia is going to be going all out this year on reversing a lot of legislation and laws. You know, to bring it more in line with Dominionist theory.
Yep. Related to Utah, the Dems there apparently are complaining that the Republicans, when not passing laws criminalising miscarriage, are spending way too much time in general on....state's rights.
More tenthers. Growing trend. No doubt tied to anti-fed, anti-tax, and Scary Socialist Obamacare rhetoric.
| 37 |
soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:41:27pm |
re: #31 Gus 802
Hope you didn't mind my gun comment. I consider myself pro-arms for the most part and also support the 2nd Amendment. Just that I get a little worn out seeing the gun rights issue on the front pages almost daily. I reckon it's because of the current president. But it's been in the forefront in my state since I moved here and I suppose everywhere else in the country.
Don't mind at all. The frenzy over "Obama is gonna take our guns" is non-sense anyway. Don't tell the NRA this, but gun rights have actually expanded since he took office.
It was clear to me in the campaign that he cares very little about it. Not to say that he doesn't favor stricter gun control laws, but it is obvious to me that he sees it as very low on the list of priorities. In fact, he might not care at all. He might have just given the "standard" liberal position to diffuse the question and move on to things he does care about.
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Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:42:01pm |
re: #28 iceweasel
Yep. And how many colonial cemeteries have women dead at extremely young ages from bearing many, many children?
I don't know anything about midwivery in the colonial period, but you can bet anything that abortions and miscarriages were induced, just as they've always been, and that there were various strategies for preventing pregnancy, just as there have always been.
It would be interesting to see the anthropological record. I'm sure there was a rather vast difference between how the average colonist conducted themselves when compared with the privileged life of the pre-apocalyptic 700-Club thumpers of 1980.
One could also ask if it weren't for Planned Parenthood then who would take their place and provide the services that they do. Beyond the mythical assumption that they are essentially abortion mills -- in their words. I would surmise that no one would take their place leaving a vast hole in reproductive services for the poor and others.
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WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:42:52pm |
re: #34 WindHorse
...Harry Reid says...
/and then my brain shuts off...
That's nothing. When I turn on my HDTV to Fox and Mitch McConnell says anything, my walls actually bleed! It's the damnedest thing, the apartment manager won't lift a finger to help. I tried to go to the bathroom? Infernal maw in the toilet. I switched the TV to C-Span, Sheldon Whitehouse was reading the complete works of Noam Chomsky like an NPR classical music DJ. Cleared it right up, including those disembodied goat eyeballs that emerged and blinked at me from my microwave.
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:42:54pm |
re: #33 soap_man
A friend of mine went to a PP in the Chicago suburbs, not for an abortion, but for something else (a pap smear I think.) This was a conservative area, so she was called all sorts of names from the folks lingering outside.
Yeah, I've heard similar stories about a couple of PP clinics in the NYC suburbs. Not conservative areas (socially), but some people picket and scream.
| 41 |
soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:43:24pm |
re: #35 WindUpBird
They just hang out there 24 hours a day to be cocks to people?
I know the USA is technically one country, but it sure doesn't seem like it.
There's a PP by my office in the suburbs. There is often a small group of people there with graphic signs and whatnot. Not always, but pretty frequently.
| 42 |
Bagua Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:44:43pm |
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The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:46:12pm |
re: #37 soap_man
re: #31 Gus 802
Not just the NRA, either. This just popped up on the NYT 2 1/2 hours ago:
Fearing Obama Agenda, States Push to Loosen Gun Laws
When President Obama took office, gun rights advocates sounded the alarm, warning that he intended to strip them of their arms and ammunition.
And yet the opposite is happening. Mr. Obama has been largely silent on the issue while states are engaged in a new and largely successful push for expanded gun rights, even passing measures that have been rejected in the past.
In Virginia, the General Assembly approved a bill last week that allows people to carry concealed weapons in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, and the House of Delegates voted to repeal a 17-year-old ban on buying more than one handgun a month. The actions came less than three years after the shootings at Virginia Tech that claimed 33 lives and prompted a major national push for increased gun control.
Arizona and Wyoming lawmakers are considering nearly a half dozen pro-gun measures, including one that would allow residents to carry concealed weapons without a permit. And lawmakers in Montana and Tennessee passed measures last year — the first of their kind — to exempt their states from federal regulation of firearms and ammunition that are made, sold and used in state. Similar bills have been proposed in at least three other states.
More at link.
No need for reality, with its wellknown liberal bias, to interfere with wingnuts!
| 44 |
Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:46:17pm |
re: #36 iceweasel
Yep. Related to Utah, the Dems there apparently are complaining that the Republicans, when not passing laws criminalising miscarriage, are spending way too much time in general on...state's rights.
More tenthers. Growing trend. No doubt tied to anti-fed, anti-tax, and Scary Socialist Obamacare rhetoric.
Right. States rights. Now this isn't a slam against the LDS but can they tell me again how much taxes they pay? No wait I think I know the answer: zero. States are barely making it now and they want to secede? How does that work in a distinctly interdependent nation or the United States. Oops, I said United States. I guess thats a bad word for the Tenthers. I wonder what they'll be doing with their interstate highway system, airports, national security and infrastructure.
| 45 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:47:22pm |
re: #41 soap_man
There's a PP by my office in the suburbs. There is often a small group of people there with graphic signs and whatnot. Not always, but pretty frequently.
Creepy. I went to the Planned Parenthood in a suburb of Seattle to get a STD test like 12 years ago (precautionary, I'm wasn't barebacking drag-queens in Reno or anything) and there was nothing. Just a nice lady at the front desk who wanted me to have some pamphlets.
I'd like to bring my own graphic signs. As in real graphics. Space Invaders sprites, Galaga, maybe some Street Fighter II pixel arts. How will they know how to defeat Akuma if we don't show them?
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Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:48:42pm |
re: #43 iceweasel
re: #31 Gus 802
Not just the NRA, either. This just popped up on the NYT 2 1/2 hours ago:
Fearing Obama Agenda, States Push to Loosen Gun LawsMore at link.
No need for reality, with its wellknown liberal bias, to interfere with wingnuts!
That's the article I was just looking at. I don't know what the science is behind allowing guns in bars but I know if I owned a bar I'd have a policy of "no guns in the bar." Unless you're an on-duty or off-duty cop (law enforcement). What is this the return of the Wild West?
| 48 |
SixDegrees Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:48:59pm |
re: #35 WindUpBird
They just hang out there 24 hours a day to be cocks to people?
I know the USA is technically one country, but it sure doesn't seem like it.
Around here, protesters are required to stay more than 100 yards away from the building entrance. For some reason, I thought this also had Federal reach, but maybe it's just Michigan.
| 49 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:49:41pm |
re: #44 Gus 802
Right. States rights. Now this isn't a slam against the LDS but can they tell me again how much taxes they pay? No wait I think I know the answer: zero. States are barely making it now and they want to secede? How does that work in a distinctly interdependent nation or the United States. Oops, I said United States. I guess thats a bad word for the Tenthers. I wonder what they'll be doing with their interstate highway system, airports, national security and infrastructure.
I think any state that wants to secede should be allowed to do so! They just need to repay all federal funds they received for state government for the rest of that calendar year, and then undergo a provisional process whereby they receive no more federal funds for anything for two years, and then they can apply to secede.
Oh, what's that, you don't want to secede anymore?
| 50 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:50:59pm |
re: #48 SixDegrees
Around here, protesters are required to stay more than 100 yards away from the building entrance. For some reason, I thought this also had Federal reach, but maybe it's just Michigan.
Yeah, I thought that too, but I have no idea.
| 51 |
The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:50:59pm |
re: #47 Gus 802
That's the article I was just looking at. I don't know what the science is behind allowing guns in bars but I know if I owned a bar I'd have a policy of "no guns in the bar." Unless you're an on-duty or off-duty cop (law enforcement). What is this the return of the Wild West?
Yeah, seriously. I really don't care about guns and have no interest in taking them away from people who (legally) own them-- but isn't it just sort of good sense not to permit them in bars? Let people stumble out to their pickup truck at least if they feel the need. //
(the air might sober em up, for one).
| 52 |
soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:51:55pm |
re: #43 iceweasel
re: #31 Gus 802
Not just the NRA, either. This just popped up on the NYT 2 1/2 hours ago:
Fearing Obama Agenda, States Push to Loosen Gun Laws
More at link.
No need for reality, with its wellknown liberal bias, to interfere with wingnuts!
Some of that stuff is too far. People should not be able to go into a bar, and get drunk, all while having a gun on them. There is a good reason why you can't drink and drive, because you are impaired and using an object that can kill people. It's a bad mix, whether it's a gun or an automobile.
Seriously, what is the deal with these "we should be able to bring guns into bars" people? Leave that shit at home for the evening.
| 53 |
The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:52:16pm |
re: #50 WindUpBird
Yeah, I thought that too, but I have no idea.
There's a federal law requiring them to stay a certain distance away.
| 54 |
Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:52:55pm |
re: #51 iceweasel
Yeah, seriously. I really don't care about guns and have no interest in taking them away from people who (legally) own them-- but isn't it just sort of good sense not to permit them in bars? Let people stumble out to their pickup truck at least if they feel the need. //
(the air might sober em up, for one).
It's asking for trouble. You don't allow people to be drunk at a firing range. You don't allow people to be drunk when hunting. But then they're going to turn around and let people do concealed carry in a place where they get drunk?
| 55 |
SixDegrees Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:53:13pm |
re: #49 WindUpBird
I think any state that wants to secede should be allowed to do so! They just need to repay all federal funds they received for state government for the rest of that calendar year, and then undergo a provisional process whereby they receive no more federal funds for anything for two years, and then they can apply to secede.
Oh, what's that, you don't want to secede anymore?
Probably not the best of arguments. Michigan, for example, receives something like 80 cents on the dollar in return for money collected in Federal taxes; they'd actually be better off, in that sense, taxing directly and keeping the money here.
I'm not sure what we'd do when Canada started marching it's army across our border, though.
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Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:53:27pm |
re: #32 WindUpBird
He's half alive, he's half dead. Folks just call him Buckethead!
| 57 |
soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:53:43pm |
re: #47 Gus 802
What is this the return of the Wild West?
Some people romanticize lawlessness.
I was just in Memphis, which has loose gun laws. All the bars had signs that said "no guns allowed." I don't have any problem with the owner having one at arms reach, but not the patrons.
| 58 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:55:02pm |
re: #51 iceweasel
Yeah, seriously. I really don't care about guns and have no interest in taking them away from people who (legally) own them-- but isn't it just sort of good sense not to permit them in bars? Let people stumble out to their pickup truck at least if they feel the need. //
(the air might sober em up, for one).
yYah, Jesus. I like guns, they're fun to shoot at washing machines in the mountains. But I'd really rather people weren't packing heat while they're on their fourth Long Island Iced Tea down at the Double Deuce. Also probably a bad idea to be openly carrying on a moving train. What's next, the NRA advocating for the rights of people to bring their mortar rounds and Lewis guns onto international flights?
Also, doctors in surgery. No guns! Put down the Desert Eagle and take out my appendix! :D
| 59 |
soap_man Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:55:59pm |
re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth
He's half alive, he's half dead. Folks just call him Buckethead!
A thousand updings to that. I love Buckethead. The first time I saw him was at a Primus show in high school. My mind was blown.
| 60 |
Gus Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:56:19pm |
re: #57 soap_man
Some people romanticize lawlessness.
I was just in Memphis, which has loose gun laws. All the bars had signs that said "no guns allowed." I don't have any problem with the owner having one at arms reach, but not the patrons.
For sure. The bar owner will know better and he or she would be the most at risk overall. Glad those signs were up.
| 61 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:56:39pm |
re: #55 SixDegrees
Probably not the best of arguments. Michigan, for example, receives something like 80 cents on the dollar in return for money collected in Federal taxes; they'd actually be better off, in that sense, taxing directly and keeping the money here.
I'm not sure what we'd do when Canada started marching it's army across our border, though.
Well, sure, that's in aggregate. it'd still be a giant mess if the government said MAINTAIN YOUR OWN FREEWAYS ASSHOLES :D
Also, there's that whole problem of "oh, you're your own country now, and we'll treat you like one, lol" with regard to commerce.
| 62 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:56:57pm |
re: #33 soap_man
A friend of mine went to a PP in the Chicago suburbs, not for an abortion, but for something else (a pap smear I think.) This was a conservative area, so she was called all sorts of names from the folks lingering outside.
That's the false narrative, the bullshit propaganda. You can't possibly be there for anything but baby killing, you murderous satan worshiper.
| 63 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:57:51pm |
re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth
He's half alive, he's half dead. Folks just call him Buckethead!
just about the LOUDEST CONCERT I have ever seen. Skinny Puppy may have been louder, I couldn't tell because I was already deaf from Buckethead.
| 64 |
The Left Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:58:23pm |
re: #53 iceweasel
There's a federal law requiring them to stay a certain distance away.
Scratch that-- IIRC there is a federal law specific to abortion providers, preventing protesters from blocking access (like the entrance).
But the distance the protestors are required to maintain is state-specific. In CO they're only required to stay 8 feet away from any individual entering or leaving the clinic. -- and that's only for a 100 foot radius around the clinic.
That isn't very far when we're talking about a mob screaming babykiller at women showing up to get the pill or a pap smear or following them to their car.
| 65 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Feb 23, 2010 11:59:06pm |
re: #59 soap_man
A thousand updings to that. I love Buckethead. The first time I saw him was at a Primus show in high school. My mind was blown.
Was he WITH Primus or opening for Primus?
And yeah, I was a fan for like 7 years (Japanese 2cd issue of Bucketheadland, yo) before I saw him live. And my mind was still blown. :D
| 66 |
soap_man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:00:32am |
re: #65 WindUpBird
Was he WITH Primus or opening for Primus?
And yeah, I was a fan for like 7 years (Japanese 2cd issue of Bucketheadland, yo) before I saw him live. And my mind was still blown. :D
Both. He opened, then sat in on two songs, if my memory serves me
| 67 |
SixDegrees Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:01:00am |
re: #61 WindUpBird
Well, sure, that's in aggregate. it'd still be a giant mess if the government said MAINTAIN YOUR OWN FREEWAYS ASSHOLES :D
Also, there's that whole problem of "oh, you're your own country now, and we'll treat you like one, lol" with regard to commerce.
The freeway money comes from our pockets to begin with. As noted, we'd actually have more of it if we kept that money here. What the Feds provide is a continent-wide plan and the enforcement authority to make sure the plan is followed by all participants.
This is certainly a good thing. But the source of all those Federal dollars is the citizenry of the states, and at least in our case it's a losing proposition purely from a dollar trade-off standpoint.
| 68 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:01:54am |
re: #37 soap_man
Don't mind at all. The frenzy over "Obama is gonna take our guns" is non-sense anyway. Don't tell the NRA this, but gun rights have actually expanded since he took office.
You're a damn liar, and you know it!
Democrat + POTUS + Second Amendment = Evil Commie Hitler Robot!
/Don't mind me. I'm tired, drunk, and goofy.
| 69 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:03:38am |
re: #66 soap_man
Both. He opened, then sat in on two songs, if my memory serves me
Oh how fucking rad, I am jealous. :D Buckethead. And then Primus. With Buckethead. WAAAAAAAGH
I saw Primus at Lollapalooza, what a show that was. The drummer (I think it was Herb at the time) was kicking so much ass with all his zany jazz fills that they were shipping in ass from other counties, and I couldn't even understand what Claypool was doing. Couldn't even believe it. It was like showing a cockroach Shakespeare. I was stunned.
| 70 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:04:01am |
re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth
You're a damn liar, and you know it!
Democrat + POTUS + Second Amendment = Evil Commie Hitler Robot!
/Don't mind me. I'm tired, drunk, and goofy.
ROBOTLER
(I have had two beers, and a third is in the bullpen)
| 71 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:05:24am |
re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth
You're a damn liar, and you know it!
Democrat + POTUS + Second Amendment = Evil Commie Hitler Robot!
/Don't mind me. I'm tired, drunk, and goofy.
Last year was the year of Evil Commie Hitler Robots. They were in plain view at many Tea Party events. Never thought I'd see the day when the right would out-Godwin the left.
| 72 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:07:17am |
re: #67 SixDegrees
The freeway money comes from our pockets to begin with. As noted, we'd actually have more of it if we kept that money here. What the Feds provide is a continent-wide plan and the enforcement authority to make sure the plan is followed by all participants.
This is certainly a good thing. But the source of all those Federal dollars is the citizenry of the states, and at least in our case it's a losing proposition purely from a dollar trade-off standpoint.
Oh, that's true, I'm sorta in goofy mode. I remember seeing a breakdown on who benefits the most from fed dollars and who's basically losing money. What an eye-opener! I want to dig up the list again.
| 73 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:09:14am |
re: #38 Gus 802
One could also ask if it weren't for Planned Parenthood then who would take their place and provide the services that they do.
I don't know who would take their place re: providing services, but I do know that the squawkers will always find someone/thing to take their place re: demonizing vilification.
May I refer you to Behemoth's First Law of Partisan Demagoguery?
"If Lucifer did not exist, it would be necessary for [insert political party] to invent him."
| 74 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:09:28am |
re: #72 WindUpBird
Oh, that's true, I'm sorta in goofy mode. I remember seeing a breakdown on who benefits the most from fed dollars and who's basically losing money. What an eye-opener! I want to dig up the list again.
New Mexico is number one on that list. Come to think of it the Federalization prevents the Balkanization of this country. It allows poor states to survive.
| 75 |
soap_man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:10:34am |
re: #72 WindUpBird
Oh, that's true, I'm sorta in goofy mode. I remember seeing a breakdown on who benefits the most from fed dollars and who's basically losing money. What an eye-opener! I want to dig up the list again.
I would just love to see a restructuring with less money paid to the feds via taxes and more money for the states. It seems silly to me that the states can't just fund local projects on their own. We pay the feds, who then give out the money based on whose reps are best at earmarking. It's not a logical system.
| 76 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:10:37am |
re: #74 Gus 802
New Mexico is number one on that list. Come to think of it the Federalization prevents the Balkanization of this country. It allows poor states to survive.
I dimly remember googling this pointing this out to albusteve. Or maybe I just remember you pointed this out to albusteve...
| 77 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:11:17am |
re: #73 Slumbering Behemoth
I don't know who would take their place re: providing services, but I do know that the squawkers will always find someone/thing to take their place re: demonizing vilification.
May I refer you to Behemoth's First Law of Partisan Demagoguery?
"If Lucifer did not exist, it would be necessary for [insert political party] to invent him."
I think that's what happened after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Now that the Soviet threat has finally vanished (yes it's vanished) there has been every attempt to find Communists under every stone. Thus we have the current wingnut memes which finds Communists even when they don't exist.
| 78 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:12:26am |
re: #76 WindUpBird
I dimly remember googling this pointing this out to albusteve. Or maybe I just remember you pointed this out to albusteve...
I pointed it out. Yeah, New Mexico takes in the most through Federal facilities and with entitlement programs for the poor.
| 79 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:13:35am |
Random Wingnut Mockery:
Instahack's solution for balancing the budget?
Default on the federal debt!
Bonus Instahackery: In response to a critic, whom Perfesser Corncob chides as 'intemperate', teh Perfesser says Obama is 'trying to turn the US into Zimbabwe".
| 80 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:14:44am |
re: #75 soap_man
I would just love to see a restructuring with less money paid to the feds via taxes and more money for the states. It seems silly to me that the states can't just fund local projects on their own. We pay the feds, who then give out the money based on whose reps are best at earmarking. It's not a logical system.
Well, some federal programs I would certainly not want to see duplicated or neutralized by state politics! Can you imagine fifty EPAs, fity FDAs, etc. But yeah, the system of how we give out money for transportation infrastructure, doesn't exactly make much sense to me either. I also dimly remember Oregon had a problem with Bush's administration about getting federal money for mass transit. I guess they would give us money for roads but not as much for our light rail? I'd have to look it up and I have had too many beers :D
| 81 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:15:13am |
re: #79 iceweasel
Random Wingnut Mockery:
Instahack's solution for balancing the budget?
Default on the federal debt!Bonus Instahackery: In response to a critic, whom Perfesser Corncob chides as 'intemperate', teh Perfesser says Obama is 'trying to turn the US into Zimbabwe".
Default on the Federal debt? Why does that remind me of the World Bank defaults from Central and South American countries. Is Instaputz suggesting we go full Chiquita?
| 82 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:17:04am |
re: #79 iceweasel
Random Wingnut Mockery:
Instahack's solution for balancing the budget?
Default on the federal debt!Bonus Instahackery: In response to a critic, whom Perfesser Corncob chides as 'intemperate', teh Perfesser says Obama is 'trying to turn the US into Zimbabwe".
I love stupid people who grab hold of a ten dollar word to make themselves sound brilliant, and them say something so dumb that a guy who's been huffing spot remover for the last month in a gas station bathroom would know it was stupid.
Default of the federal debt. Brilliant! Because that won't have any repercussions! Also, if you don't want to pay your mortgage, just burn your house down!
| 83 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:17:12am |
re: #71 Gus 802
Last year was the year of Evil Commie Hitler Robots. They were in plain view at many Tea Party events. Never thought I'd see the day when the right would out-Godwin the left.
Same here.
:sigh:
I fear my party is leaving me.
| 84 |
soap_man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:18:17am |
re: #80 WindUpBird
Well, some federal programs I would certainly not want to see duplicated or neutralized by state politics! Can you imagine fifty EPAs, fity FDAs, etc. But yeah, the system of how we give out money for transportation infrastructure, doesn't exactly make much sense to me either. I also dimly remember Oregon had a problem with Bush's administration about getting federal money for mass transit. I guess they would give us money for roads but not as much for our light rail? I'd have to look it up and I have had too many beers :D
Oh, I agree. Some things are best left to the feds. But handing out money for local infrastructure projects is not one of them. It's also somewhat ironic that I advocate more state money when I live in Illinois, possibly the most corrupt and inefficient state government in the union. Oh well.
That's it folks. WAY past my bedtime. Everyone have a safe and fun evening.
| 85 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:18:20am |
re: #81 Gus 802
Default on the Federal debt? Why does that remind me of the World Bank defaults from Central and South American countries. Is Instaputz suggesting we go full Chiquita?
The full Insty post:
SO HERE’S A QUESTION: Would a default on Treasuries accomplish what the Balanced Budget Amendment was supposed to achieve, by forcing the government to spend no more than it takes in? With more collateral damage, of course. . . .
| 86 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:20:04am |
re: #83 Slumbering Behemoth
Same here.
:sigh:
I fear my party is leaving me.
Yeah. I was a Democrat for most of my life. Then voted Republican since 2001. Now, I find myself without a home. The third parties are all crazy and not even worth looking at. Just have to play it by ear I guess.
| 87 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:20:37am |
re: #83 Slumbering Behemoth
Same here.
:sigh:
I fear my party is leaving me.
It's not leaving you, it's leaving Earth!
I actually believe this is temporary. There's no way that there won't be a rebound, they just need to let these people go all purist on each other until it's obvious they've imploded. Then you catch them all in a butterfly net, drop them off in a rubber room, and give the GOP back to people who are adults, and then there's a normal two party system again.
| 88 |
soap_man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:20:52am |
re: #82 WindUpBird
I love stupid people who grab hold of a ten dollar word to make themselves sound brilliant, and them say something so dumb that a guy who's been huffing spot remover for the last month in a gas station bathroom would know it was stupid.
Default of the federal debt. Brilliant! Because that won't have any repercussions! Also, if you don't want to pay your mortgage, just burn your house down!
Frustrated Owner Bulldozes Home Ahead Of Foreclosure
Okay, now I'm leaving.
| 89 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:23:50am |
BTW, who else might be pushing the idea-- in a 'just asking questions!' way, of BUyInG GoLd?!?
That would be one of the PowerTools, of course. In a post entitled "Are the Democrats Coming After Your Savings?" John Hindrocket writes:
Earlier today I learned that a relative on Wall Street has stopped accumulating funds in his retirement accounts precisely because he thinks they may be confiscated by the Obama administration. Instead, he is acquiring untraceable, tangible assets--gold and silver--that the government won't be able to steal without a physical search of his property.
Hindy opines:
That's not good for the economy, of course. When citizens who have the ability to invest in our economy don't dare do so, for fear that their savings will be stolen by the government, we are reverting to an earlier and far poorer economic era. But that, apparently, is what the Obama administration wants.
So, he's not exactly saying Obama will confiscate your 401K, he's just sayin'. Y'know, maybe Obama will.
No link, people can google it.
| 90 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:23:55am |
re: #85 iceweasel
I don't think he thought this one through. If we were to default on Treasuries we would effectively default on the holders of those Treasury Bills. That would lead to further financial chaos in addition to creating an international crisis. What the heck is it with bloggers these days? Half of them don't know their elbow from their assholes. It's like guys that write books on how to be rich but never were rich until they wrote some dumb book on how to make it rich.
| 91 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:25:27am |
re: #85 iceweasel
Bwah! Which is a bit like saying that killing your dependent children achieves the same results as getting a night job to make ends meet. At the end of the fiscal year, my balance sheet looks the same!
"Collateral damage." I can imagine an economist listening to this idiot, and then calmly reaching over to pick up his slide rule to stab him in the thorax until he loses consciousness.
| 92 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:26:15am |
re: #89 iceweasel
BTW, who else might be pushing the idea-- in a 'just asking questions!' way, of BUyInG GoLd?!?
That would be one of the PowerTools, of course. In a post entitled "Are the Democrats Coming After Your Savings?" John Hindrocket writes:
So, he's not exactly saying Obama will confiscate your 401K, he's just sayin'. Y'know, maybe Obama will.No link, people can google it.
That's the latest "crisis." I found the link to the Labor Department which is soliciting comments on the idea. Until then the meme will be that Obama is going to take your 401K and buy Migs and build a private ACORN Army. Even Newt got into the act.
| 93 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:27:42am |
re: #77 Gus 802
I think that's what happened after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Now that the Soviet threat has finally vanished (yes it's vanished) there has been every attempt to find Communists under every stone. Thus we have the current wingnut memes which finds Communists even when they don't exist.
The return of the JBS into the mainstream serves to amplify your point.
:sigh: again.
I know in my mind what conservative ideology means, and it depresses me to see the direction of things today, like this year's CPAC.
As an aside, I would like to thank the majority of liberals/democrats on this blog for not reveling in these recent incidents by pointing at the nonsense and broad-brush painting it as "true conservatism defined".
| 94 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:28:20am |
re: #91 WindUpBird
Bwah! Which is a bit like saying that killing your dependent children achieves the same results as getting a night job to make ends meet. At the end of the fiscal year, my balance sheet looks the same!
"Collateral damage." I can imagine an economist listening to this idiot, and then calmly reaching over to pick up his slide rule to stab him in the thorax until he loses consciousness.
Yeah, i thought this post shredded it well:
| 95 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:29:15am |
re: #92 Gus 802
That's the latest "crisis." I found the link to the Labor Department which is soliciting comments on the idea. Until then the meme will be that Obama is going to take your 401K and buy Migs and build a private ACORN Army. Even Newt got into the act.
Yeah, I'm a couple of days late on this, not up to speed yet.
| 96 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:31:11am |
re: #79 iceweasel
Random Wingnut Mockery:
Instahack's solution for balancing the budget?
Default on the federal debt!
Awesome! Does that mean every day Americans can balance their budget by defaulting on their federally guaranteed student loan debts?
| 97 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:31:54am |
re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth
The return of the JBS into the mainstream serves to amplify your point.
:sigh: again.
Not just the JBS. Also outliers such as Alex Jones.
Just now PJM posted an anti-AGW screed by former astronaut Harrison Schmitt, who holds a degree in geology. Certainly there will be plenty of people who will go for the argument by authority approach taken by PJM... after all, a former astronaut! Not only that, a former Senator (Republican, as if that needed to be added.)
However, what is also true is that Schmitt, in selling his AGW-is-a-Hoax, has used as his outlet... Alex Jones! Indeed, Schmitt is a quite willing interviewee on Jones' shows.
Even astronauts can go bad... seriously bad.
| 98 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:33:06am |
re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth
Awesome! Does that mean every day Americans can balance their budget by defaulting on their federally guaranteed student loan debts?
How about mortgages? I seem to recall hacks like Instaputz claiming that the economic crisis is all about shiftless folk defaulting on mortgages. Is that ok now? /
| 99 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:37:06am |
re: #97 freetoken
Anyone who breaks bread with the Jones' of this world are worthless in my book.
If that is the only kind of outlet you can find for your opinion, then there is something seriously wrong with your opinion.
| 100 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:38:31am |
Random asshattery:
French Ad Shocks, but Will It Stop Young Smokers?
Antismoking ad playing off pr0n stereotypes:
The slogan is bland enough: “To smoke is to be a slave to tobacco.” But it accompanies photographs of an older man, his torso seen from the side, pushing down on the head of a teenage girl with a cigarette in her mouth. Her eyes are at belt level, glancing upward fearfully. The cigarette appears to emerge from the adult’s trousers.
Two other ads show young men in the same position as the girl, though the adult is wearing a suit jacket and a watch.
Since I know a picture is worth a thousand words, and this is the late night crew and all, here's a link with some of the pics:
SFW, just icky.
| 101 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:38:56am |
re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth
The return of the JBS into the mainstream serves to amplify your point.
:sigh: again.I know in my mind what conservative ideology means, and it depresses me to see the direction of things today, like this year's CPAC.
As an aside, I would like to thank the majority of liberals/democrats on this blog for not reveling in these recent incidents by pointing at the nonsense and broad-brush painting it as "true conservatism defined".
It's par for the course I guess. You know, I grew up being disappointed by Democrats. If it wasn't DADT, it was DOMA, or it was feeble attempt at what I saw was an affront to my environmentalism of the time. We were always voting for "the lessor of two evils."
What happens with conservatives is not unlike what happens with liberals (or progressives). The popular movements become the defining theme. So you now have the Tea Party being the definition of conservative which is similar to having Move On or Code Pink define liberalism.
The Democrats are still struggling with having the far left being a major definer of their party. This all plays in the media airwaves regardless of the news outlet. The same is true with Republicans having the far right being the definer. People typically remember what is the most extreme or out there.
Not saying there is total extremism from either side now. I guess that's the good news. So far it's a rather modest form of extremism coming from the right and the left.
| 102 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:42:40am |
re: #100 iceweasel
As a smoker of :mumblemumble: years, I can say I find that ad hilarious. In poor taste? Maybe, but hilarious.
| 103 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:43:28am |
Ah the joys of physics class... just don't piss off the teacher!
| 104 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:44:21am |
re: #100 iceweasel
Random asshattery:
French Ad Shocks, but Will It Stop Young Smokers?Antismoking ad playing off pr0n stereotypes:
Since I know a picture is worth a thousand words, and this is the late night crew and all, here's a link with some of the pics:SFW, just icky.
That's outrageous! /
Nah, you can't shame people out of smoking. That campaign won't work.
| 105 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:45:24am |
re: #101 Gus 802
I have to laugh at the notion that the Dems are in any genuine way 'defined' by the far left. The media and the opposition paint them that way, but it simply isn't true. If it were we'd have HCR already, and DADT and DOMA overturned, etc.
The Dems are basically useless however. John Cole had a great rant recently:
I’ve never seen a bunch of more hopeless, cynical, feckless, and criminally useless people than the Senate Democrats.
| 106 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:47:56am |
re: #104 Gus 802
That's outrageous! /
Nah, you can't shame people out of smoking. That campaign won't work.
It's just stupid. I'll quote Feministe:
The vice-president of the advertising firm that created the ad says it intends to portray smoking as “an act of naïveté and submission.” Which is apparently what oral sex is? Complicating the issue is that the teenager with the cigarette in his/her mouth looks scared; the person with the cigarette in their pants has a hand on the teenager’s head, and the whole situation looks more like abuse than sex (or naivete or submission, for that matter).
I’m with the French feminist who commented that “what is most shocking [about this ad] is the banalization of sexual violence,” and that “It’s a poverty of imagination. When people have no ideas they use female bodies.”
Just stupid. Not an outrageous outrage or even an outrage for me, but just ick and stupid.
Certainly not going to do what they'd like it to do, either.
| 107 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:48:24am |
re: #100 iceweasel
As one commenter there notes, The Onion did it.
| 108 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:49:17am |
re: #105 iceweasel
I have to laugh at the notion that the Dems are in any genuine way 'defined' by the far left. The media and the opposition paint them that way, but it simply isn't true. If it were we'd have HCR already, and DADT and DOMA overturned, etc.
The Dems are basically useless however. John Cole had a great rant recently:
I’ve never seen a bunch of more hopeless, cynical, feckless, and criminally useless people than the Senate Democrats.
Right. But I'm talking about perception or how they're read by the opposite sides. I still think it's a bunch of malarky because in the case of HCR there still hasn't been any legislation that came out of DC even when the Dems held a clear majority. In that case the biggest obstructionists came from within the Democratic ranks. Yet here we sit and nothing has moved since then.
| 109 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:55:26am |
re: #108 Gus 802
Right. But I'm talking about perception or how they're read by the opposite sides. I still think it's a bunch of malarky because in the case of HCR there still hasn't been any legislation that came out of DC even when the Dems held a clear majority. In that case the biggest obstructionists came from within the Democratic ranks. Yet here we sit and nothing has moved since then.
Oh yeah, that's true. The JC post does a good job of slamming them for that.
Meh. Typical. Much as I loathe the Republicans, I have quite a bit of loathing for the Dems.
| 110 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:55:40am |
re: #103 freetoken
Ah the joys of physics class... just don't piss off the teacher!
[Video]
At what kind of colleges do these things actually happen? I've seen similar videos involving cell phones.
I am all but certain that such vids are staged.
| 111 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:57:03am |
It is standard polemic technique to take the most extreme peoponents of an oppoents point of view and present them as the spokespersons of it. You can do it with brick-tossing G-8 protestors or with gun-toting Tea party rally attendees with poorly spelled signs.
If there is a difference, it is that the Democrats know that most of those G-8 protestors are not going to vote for any major party, so they make little or no effort to appeal to them, but the Republicans are counting on the Tea Baggers as a major source of support, and feel compelled to pander to their ideals.
| 112 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:59:04am |
re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth
As one commenter there notes, The Onion did it.
Hilarious! Hadn't seen that, thanks.
| 113 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:00:34am |
re: #109 iceweasel
Oh yeah, that's true. The JC post does a good job of slamming them for that.
Meh. Typical. Much as I loathe the Republicans, I have quite a bit of loathing for the Dems.
Yep. You know we used to call them band aid Democrats. Look at what Joe Lieberman did and even lied through his teeth or recanted on his previous statements. Then you have the other Blue Dogs that stumbled on the abortion limitations. There was more including the "buy outs" to get a yes vote. And in the end? Nothing. I think it's bullshit and I'm sure more than 40,000 people die each year from being uninsured. We specialize in cranking down statistics. It's the way of the Chamber of Congress.
| 114 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:01:43am |
re: #112 iceweasel
Hilarious! Hadn't seen that, thanks.
There ws a blowup over Ann Coulter making fun of John Edwards "fag hairdo".
But George Carlin once pointed out that "faggot" used to mean "effeminate" or "geeky" rather than homosexual, or as he explained it "A fag was a guy who wouldn't go downtown with you to beat up homos!"
| 115 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:03:00am |
re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth
I used to love playing with liquid nitrogen. We used to do an annual demonstration with the stuff.
Yes, that was sort of an act... it really wasn't just some student's laptop, but one that was trashed. Nevertheless, the lecturer makes for a good actor.
| 116 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:05:13am |
re: #114 ralphieboy
There ws a blowup over Ann Coulter making fun of John Edwards "fag hairdo".
But George Carlin once pointed out that "faggot" used to mean "effeminate" or "geeky" rather than homosexual, or as he explained it "A fag was a guy who wouldn't go downtown with you to beat up homos!"
Uh-huh.
Coulter's made numerous 'fag' comments about Edwards.
And she isn't talking about his hair.
She's made numerous other casual homophobic slurs.
| 117 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:07:42am |
re: #113 Gus 802
Yep. You know we used to call them band aid Democrats. Look at what Joe Lieberman did and even lied through his teeth or recanted on his previous statements. Then you have the other Blue Dogs that stumbled on the abortion limitations. There was more including the "buy outs" to get a yes vote. And in the end? Nothing. I think it's bullshit and I'm sure more than 40,000 people die each year from being uninsured. We specialize in cranking down statistics. It's the way of the Chamber of Congress.
Stupak and the C Street gang will still fuck up some of HCR-- thinking about our precious Fetal-Americans.
The figures for measuring who dies from lack of insurance have always been skewed. It's virtually impossible to measure. How can you tell what deaths could have been prevented if the person had access to care-- or wasn't so poor they put off care? You really can't.
| 118 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:13:10am |
I'm cornfused. Is this country/western, pop, or rock & roll? All of the above?
| 119 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:15:22am |
re: #117 iceweasel
Stupak and the C Street gang will still fuck up some of HCR-- thinking about our precious Fetal-Americans.
The figures for measuring who dies from lack of insurance have always been skewed. It's virtually impossible to measure. How can you tell what deaths could have been prevented if the person had access to care-- or wasn't so poor they put off care? You really can't.
That was the other one, Stupak. Yeah, they're all so worried about the born while thousands that are living and well beyond the viable stage are given the short shrift. From the others all we get is the same old tired hubris and rant of "health care is not a right" while we're spending trillions on other-shit. The double irony is that you have those people opposing HCR that are already enrolled in either Medicaid, Medicare, or the VA. I know this well because we see it here. The others happen to have insurance through their spouses or work.
| 120 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:20:14am |
re: #117 iceweasel
Stupak and the C Street gang will still fuck up some of HCR-- thinking about our precious Fetal-Americans.
The figures for measuring who dies from lack of insurance have always been skewed. It's virtually impossible to measure. How can you tell what deaths could have been prevented if the person had access to care-- or wasn't so poor they put off care? You really can't.
C-Street. No True Scotsman. I tell you I sure do practice my self-censorship.
And people wonder why I admire Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.
| 121 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:21:44am |
re: #119 Gus 802
That was the other one, Stupak. Yeah, they're all so worried about the born while thousands that are living and well beyond the viable stage are given the short shrift. From the others all we get is the same old tired hubris and rant of "health care is not a right" while we're spending trillions on other-shit. The double irony is that you have those people opposing HCR that are already enrolled in either Medicaid, Medicare, or the VA. I know this well because we see it here. The others happen to have insurance through their spouses or work.
I wonder about these people opposed to HCR. Some of them have been lied to and manipulated (crying seniors at TownHalls, on Medicare, saying they don't want gov't in their health care).
Some of them I guess are just ignorant, lucky, and/or incredibly ignorant. Medical expenses are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the US. You can have insurance and still go bankrupt. You can have insurance, savings, and work all your life and still be one illness, accident, or misfortune away from being destitute.
I really don't understand the ignorance, except as part of a primitive 'warding off the evil eye' mentality. "People who have that happen to them must deserve it/have made bad choices; it could never happen to me or anyone I know."
| 122 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:28:08am |
re: #121 iceweasel
I wonder about these people opposed to HCR. Some of them have been lied to and manipulated (crying seniors at TownHalls, on Medicare, saying they don't want gov't in their health care).
Some of them I guess are just ignorant, lucky, and/or incredibly ignorant. Medical expenses are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the US. You can have insurance and still go bankrupt. You can have insurance, savings, and work all your life and still be one illness, accident, or misfortune away from being destitute.
I really don't understand the ignorance, except as part of a primitive 'warding off the evil eye' mentality. "People who have that happen to them must deserve it/have made bad choices; it could never happen to me or anyone I know."
It's simple. It's because Americans are selfish people. The majority of people are covered which means if we go by majority rule the majority doesn't give a crap about those that aren't covered. Plus you're also dealing with a population that still believes that praying can cure illness and buying a lottery ticket will get rid of your problems.
| 123 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:34:16am |
re: #116 iceweasel
Uh-huh.
Coulter's made numerous 'fag' comments about Edwards.
And she isn't talking about his hair.
She's made numerous other casual homophobic slurs.
I'm not defending AC, she has espressed enough homophobic sentiment. The thig is, in the parlance of youg peope, terms like "fag" or "gay" have just come to mean "toally uncool".
| 124 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:34:25am |
Stupid right wingers keep complaining about the government. The majority of your money goes to paying for insurance, interest rates, late fees, overdraft fees, outrageous mortgage interest, credit cards, overpriced food and goods, rent, etc. You already have a death panel and it's your private insurance company.
| 125 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:35:00am |
I don't have a problem with HC REFORM. what I do have a problem with is total gubment takeover. Wiping out insurance companies will hurt the middle and middle/lower class through their 401K. (I had a 401K at age 21, so it's not just some people) I also have a problem with the proposal of fining me for not wanting gubment healthcare. Nanct Pelosi was asked a direct question on this subject and she danced around the whole "fine those without insurance" question. And good morning.:)
| 126 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:35:02am |
I've heard this described as "Northwestern Grunge" Does not compute.
| 127 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:35:40am |
re: #122 Gus 802
It's simple. It's because Americans are selfish people. The majority of people are covered which means if we go by majority rule the majority doesn't give a crap about those that aren't covered. Plus you're also dealing with a population that still believes that praying can cure illness and buying a lottery ticket will get rid of your problems.
Yep.
Selfishness is part of the human condition. Americans aren't more selfish than other, just so much as we're spoiled-- even our sacrifices in war are distant to us (not like they were to Europe or England in WWII, say).
But being spoiled makes it easy to be selfish.
And as for praying and the lotto ticket-- american evangelical religions are deeply tied to the doctrine of american exceptionalism, and so are we as individuals. I don't merely mean the notion of exceptionalism for us as a nation or people, but we have it also personally, on an individual level.
It's deeply ingrained in us as our fundamental mythology: pioneer spirit, can-do, anyone-can-make it.
And all that stuff is true of America and Americans, but I'm talking about the dark side of that kind of exceptionalist thinking and that kind of blind faith or hope in a special Providence.
| 128 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:36:32am |
re: #123 ralphieboy
I'm not defending AC, she has espressed enough homophobic sentiment. The thig is, in the parlance of youg peope, terms like "fag" or "gay" have just come to mean "toally uncool".
Yeah, for use with their peer group.
Coulter is neither young nor a comedian. Officially, that is. :)
| 129 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:37:34am |
re: #125 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't have a problem with HC REFORM. what I do have a problem with is total gubment takeover. Wiping out insurance companies will hurt the middle and middle/lower class through their 401K. (I had a 401K at age 21, so it's not just some people) I also have a problem with the proposal of fining me for not wanting gubment healthcare. Nanct Pelosi was asked a direct question on this subject and she danced around the whole "fine those without insurance" question. And good morning.:)
We aren't going to have a 'total gubmint takeover', nor will HCR 'wipe out' insurance companies. The opposite, actually.
Good morning.
| 130 |
Gus Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:42:31am |
re: #127 iceweasel
Yep.
Selfishness is part of the human condition. Americans aren't more selfish than other, just so much as we're spoiled-- even our sacrifices in war are distant to us (not like they were to Europe or England in WWII, say).But being spoiled makes it easy to be selfish.
And as for praying and the lotto ticket-- american evangelical religions are deeply tied to the doctrine of american exceptionalism, and so are we as individuals. I don't merely mean the notion of exceptionalism for us as a nation or people, but we have it also personally, on an individual level.
It's deeply ingrained in us as our fundamental mythology: pioneer spirit, can-do, anyone-can-make it.And all that stuff is true of America and Americans, but I'm talking about the dark side of that kind of exceptionalist thinking and that kind of blind faith or hope in a special Providence.
Night Ice.
I don't know about you but I kind of gave up. I find it hard to be all rah rah about fighting a war in Afghanistan for a country that doesn't seem to give two shits about me.
| 131 |
AK-47% Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:42:48am |
re: #127 iceweasel
Yep.
Selfishness is part of the human condition. Americans aren't more selfish than other, just so much as we're spoiled-- even our sacrifices in war are distant to us (not like they were to Europe or England in WWII, say).But being spoiled makes it easy to be selfish.
And as for praying and the lotto ticket-- american evangelical religions are deeply tied to the doctrine of american exceptionalism, and so are we as individuals. I don't merely mean the notion of exceptionalism for us as a nation or people, but we have it also personally, on an individual level.
It's deeply ingrained in us as our fundamental mythology: pioneer spirit, can-do, anyone-can-make it.And all that stuff is true of America and Americans, but I'm talking about the dark side of that kind of exceptionalist thinking and that kind of blind faith or hope in a special Providence.
You brought up another topic that is very characteristic of the American spirit: Calvinism. They tried to shoehorn the camel through the eye of that needle by greasing it with the notion that wealth and riches are an "outward sign of inner grace", which makes a lot of us hesitant to share our signs of inner grace with the "undeserving".
And how do we know that they are undeserving? They are poor, of course.
| 132 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:44:08am |
re: #129 iceweasel
Either way, we all know there will be some type of movement on HC. And for once in my life I might be on the right (correct) side of the cue ball. Got a hold of the local college about becoming a Radiological Tech. The good thing is, I only need to take 1 pre-req class. I think. Will my college credits from the early 90's carry over to today?
| 133 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:46:05am |
re: #130 Gus 802
Night Ice.
I don't know about you but I kind of gave up. I find it hard to be all rah rah about fighting a war in Afghanistan for a country that doesn't seem to give two shits about me.
Night Gus. And ditto. Talk soon.
| 134 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:49:59am |
re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar
Either way, we all know there will be some type of movement on HC. And for once in my life I might be on the right (correct) side of the cue ball. Got a hold of the local college about becoming a Radiological Tech. The good thing is, I only need to take 1 pre-req class. I think. Will my college credits from the early 90's carry over to today?
Depends on the nature of the pre-reqs.
If it's something like physics or chem or calculus or english, yes, your old college credits should be fine, depending on this institution's requirements and where you went. Many schools do have a limit on how many credits they'll accept though-- (they have a minimum on how many you have to take at the new place to earn one of their diplomas.)
But you're talking about just placing out of the basic stuff, I take it, and getting a very specific degree-- I think you'd be fine.
| 135 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:52:01am |
re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar
Either way, we all know there will be some type of movement on HC. And for once in my life I might be on the right (correct) side of the cue ball. Got a hold of the local college about becoming a Radiological Tech. The good thing is, I only need to take 1 pre-req class. I think. Will my college credits from the early 90's carry over to today?
Oh and congrats!!!!
| 136 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:52:45am |
re: #134 iceweasel
I would have to take Anatomy and Physiology. I can do that over the summer. The rest are math credits, which I already have. And it's the same place I went in the 90's, although they have switched from a Community College to a 4 year school.
| 138 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:55:19am |
re: #136 Cannadian Club Akbar
I would have to take Anatomy and Physiology. I can do that over the summer. The rest are math credits, which I already have. And it's the same place I went in the 90's, although they have switched from a Community College to a 4 year school.
Oh god, you should have no problem whatsoever. Math credits are almost always totally transferable even if it had been a different place.
Yay! Go for it!
PS: investigate and see if you're available for extra funds for a returning student; some new funds for people returning to school and changing careers were set up by Obama. The financial aid office should know.
| 139 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 1:58:57am |
re: #138 iceweasel
Oh god, you should have no problem whatsoever. Math credits are almost always totally transferable even if it had been a different place.
Yay! Go for it!
PS: investigate and see if you're available for extra funds for a returning student; some new funds for people returning to school and changing careers were set up by Obama. The financial aid office should know.
Cool, thanks. I didn't know that. I do know life financially is gonna be "teh suck" for a couple years, but that should fly by.
| 140 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:00:16am |
G'nite Lizards. Catch y'all on the flip-side.
| 141 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:02:03am |
re: #139 Cannadian Club Akbar
Cool, thanks. I didn't know that. I do know life financially is gonna be "teh suck" for a couple years, but that should fly by.
If you've got more than one school near you offering similar programs for Radiology Tech, it's totally worth it to talk to the others and see what they tell you about credits transferred and funds available.
I'll look and see what info I can find on funding for returning students in FL and keep you posted.
| 143 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:15:03am |
re: #131 ralphieboy
You brought up another topic that is very characteristic of the American spirit: Calvinism. They tried to shoehorn the camel through the eye of that needle by greasing it with the notion that wealth and riches are an "outward sign of inner grace", which makes a lot of us hesitant to share our signs of inner grace with the "undeserving".
And how do we know that they are undeserving? They are poor, of course.
I think it's pretty difficult to understate the importance of Calvinism (and some related doctrines) to the american character and our politics even now. It generally isn't mentioned at all.
| 144 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:15:27am |
re: #143 iceweasel
I think it's pretty difficult to
understate the importance of Calvinism (and some related doctrines) to the american character and our politics even now. It generally isn't mentioned at all.
OVER. lol.
| 146 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:42:14am |
D'oh!!
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
| 147 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:50:18am |
The 14 Funniest Police Composite Sketches (PICTURES)
We know eye witnesses aren't always reliable, but police composite sketches almost never really look like the perpetrator. Remember the Unabomber? He looked nothing like the stylish, mustachioed, aviator-wearing hoodlum he was made out to be. All kidding aside, these are some of the worst police sketches we have ever seen. Whether they look like they were drawn by a third-grader or one of the guys in Times Square who does the big-headed caricatures, if anyone should be arrested, it's the artist responsible.
Slideshow at link.
| 148 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:53:51am |
re: #147 iceweasel
I was gonna ask if you had ever seen the one with the newscaster, but it was #14. That kills me.
| 149 |
Tigger2005 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:56:22am |
re: #17 SteveC
This week is the 30th anniversary...
"Do you believe in miracles? YES!"
The impact of that hockey game on U.S. morale cannot be overestimated.
| 150 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:00:22am |
re: #149 Tigger2005
The impact of that hockey game on U.S. morale cannot be overestimated.
True. We, as a country were not doing well. High taxes, high interest rates, high energy cost. America was kinda down in the dumps, almost a nationwide depression. ( just a sadness, not like the 20's-30's)
| 151 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:00:36am |
re: #147 iceweasel
speaking of police...
Note to police officers: Yes, I have a fast car. Yes, I take corners a little hard. No I do NOT go SIXTY IN A THIRTY-FIVE IN A RESIDENTAL NEIGHBORHOOD. So when you pull me over, run my license and tell me you clocked me at double the speed limit and yet! You let me off with a warning? All I come away with is "I bet that guy totally thought he had a DUI and not an incredulous nerd who is wondering why he's being hassled at 2am."
He did say 'You have a powerful little car here. So slow down!" That made me smile.
| 152 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:02:36am |
re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was gonna ask if you had ever seen the one with the newscaster, but it was #14. That kills me.
I'd never seen that before!
That's my favourite, because it's too much like a Kent Brockman moment on the Simpsons...but a close second would be number 5: the Man With No Face.
| 153 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:03:06am |
re: #151 WindUpBird
I worked with a kid, 20 years old, pure gear head. Has a personalized tag that basically reads, "Twin Turbo." It is a newer Cobra that he owns.
| 154 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:05:25am |
re: #152 iceweasel
I'd never seen that before!
That's my favourite, because it's too much like a Kent Brockman moment on the Simpsons...but a close second would be number 5: the Man With No Face.
Half of them look like a 5 year old drew them. Also, I had Jerry Seinfeld's book years ago. He said the people who draw the outline of dead people on the floor couldn't make it as a sketch artist. Heh.
| 155 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:08:32am |
The once-secret CIA papers, obtained in a lawsuit by the conservative legal foundation Judicial Watch, shed new light on which lawmakers knew the details of the controversial interrogation program and when.
SNIP
The CIA briefed lawmakers as it began seeking expanded authority for the interrogation program. Current House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, then minority whip, attended a briefing on Abu Zubaydah's interrogation April 24, 2002, along with seven other members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, the documents show.
The CIA did not begin using the interrogation techniques until after receiving legal guidance from the Department of Justice in August 2002.
Pelosi, who became House Democratic leader in late 2002, said at a news conference in April last year that she was never told at the time that simulated drowning -- or waterboarding -- and other harsh interrogation techniques were being used. She said she was only told the CIA had legal opinions that approved harsh interrogation methods.
Hayden, in his 2007 statement for the Senate Select Committee, said as the CIA began implementing the interrogation program in 2002 "the majority and minority leaders of the Senate, the speaker, and the minority leader of the House, and the chairs and ranking members of the intelligence committees were fully briefed on the interrogation procedures."
SNIP
| 156 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:08:54am |
re: #151 WindUpBird
speaking of police...
Note to police officers: Yes, I have a fast car. Yes, I take corners a little hard. No I do NOT go SIXTY IN A THIRTY-FIVE IN A RESIDENTAL NEIGHBORHOOD. So when you pull me over, run my license and tell me you clocked me at double the speed limit and yet! You let me off with a warning? All I come away with is "I bet that guy totally thought he had a DUI and not an incredulous nerd who is wondering why he's being hassled at 2am."
He did say 'You have a powerful little car here. So slow down!" That made me smile.
I've been let off several times for speeding and once for running a red light (ok, a flashing one, I slowed, didnt come to a full stop, and went through). Never got a ticket.
Don't kid yourself; it's really about how you look. In my case, female, white, 'like I belonged in the neighbourhood'.
BTW, that last one with the red light-- I was definitely DUI if they'd run a test. Not 'too drunk to drive' but definitely DUI. Also coming back from a gig my band had played. Bullshit to let me off, basically, in every instance.
| 157 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:11:36am |
re: #156 iceweasel
In Florida, they are running PSA's about buzzed drinking. They are trying to make it where I can't have a couple beers with my wings at Hooters.
| 158 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:16:36am |
re: #157 Cannadian Club Akbar
In Florida, they are running PSA's about buzzed drinking. They are trying to make it where I can't have a couple beers with my wings at Hooters.
That's right-- we started talking about this the other day but I had to go. FL is really cracking down on that and you're right, they take DUI's very, very seriously.
The UK has been excellent about DUI for years, but their approach IMO isn't ever going to work in the US. We're just a huge country and we don't have public transport available in the same way-- people drink and drive.
BTW, the 'friend' of a friend I mentioned in FL-- I'm pretty sure the longest time he spent in the penal system there for drugs was when he was pulled over, was high, and had drugs in the car as well.
| 159 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:20:51am |
re: #158 iceweasel
If he had drugs in the car there are a few factors: The kind of drug; Did it appear it was for personal use (all in 1 baggie); if it was broken into multiple baggies, or whatever, then they could go for trafficking.
| 160 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:22:03am |
Blackwater Took Hundreds of Guns From U.S. Military, Afghan Police
Senate Inquiry Shows Contractor Signed for Rifles Using 'South Park' Alias
Employees of the CIA-connected private security corporation Blackwater diverted hundreds of weapons, including more than 500 AK-47 assault rifles, from a U.S. weapons bunker in Afghanistan intended to equip Afghan policemen, according to an investigation by the Senate Armed Services Committee. On at least one occasion, an individual claiming to work for the company evidently signed for a weapons shipment using the name of a “South Park” cartoon character. And Blackwater has yet to return hundreds of the guns to the military.
A Blackwater subsidiary known as Paravant that until recently operated in Afghanistan acquired the weapons for its employees’ “personal use,” according to committee staffers, as did other non-Paravant employees of Blackwater. Yet contractors in Afghanistan are not permitted to operate weapons without explicit permission from U.S. Central Command, something Blackwater never obtained. A November 2008 email from a Paravant vice president named Brian McCracken, obtained by the committee, nevertheless reads: “We have not received formal permission from the Army to carry weapons yet but I will take my chances.”
As a result of Blackwater’s disregard for U.S. military restrictions on contractor firearms, four employees of Paravant — which held a subcontract from defense giant Raytheon to train Afghan soldiers — under the influence of alcohol opened fire on a car carrying four Afghan civilians on May 5, 2009, wounding two. That incident, occurring less than two years after Blackwater guards killed 17 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad, prompted the committee’s investigation.
The name of the South Park character? Eric Cartman, of course.
RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!
| 161 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:24:23am |
re: #159 Cannadian Club Akbar
If he had drugs in the car there are a few factors: The kind of drug; Did it appear it was for personal use (all in 1 baggie); if it was broken into multiple baggies, or whatever, then they could go for trafficking.
No, wasn't trafficking. This was a 'nice middleclass white boy' with multiple drug offenses, for which he'd almost always been let off. Never dealt, had a parent covering up for him (even though he was like 35 then)
FL didn't crack down on him until the moving violation where he was high.
| 162 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:26:55am |
“Today, you have attacked us in the middle of our household, so wait for what will befall you in the middle of yours ... We will blow up the earth from beneath your feet,” Qasim al-Raymi, the wing’s military commander, said in an article posted earlier this month on a website used by Islamist terrorists.
SNIP
| 163 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:28:21am |
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's announced on Sunday that the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron and Rachel's tomb in Bethlehem will be added to the list of national heritage sites that the government plans to promote.
On Tuesday, Ismail Hanieyh of Hamas urged Palestinians in the West Bank to rise up against Israeli forces in response to the decision.
SNIP
| 164 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:28:28am |
re: #161 iceweasel
It also depends on the drug. They say coke laws are racist because crack carries a harder fine/sentence than powder. Oddly, most of the people who turn into crack heads are white, although I know of 1 guy who had a promising NBA career and the last time I saw him, he was broke and looking to score. Sadly, he signed a large contract when he went to the NBA, just to lose it all.
| 166 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:33:10am |
Jan 3:
Obama Says Al Qaeda in Yemen Planned Bombing Plot, and He Vows Retribution
Dec 31:
Obama Ordered U.S. Military Strike on Yemen Terrorists
Cruise Missiles Launched Thursday Hit Two Suspected al Qaeda Sites; Major Escalation of US Efforts Against Terrorists
Jan 5:
Obama halts Yemen transfers but vows Guantanamo closure
Just an FYI for ODS sufferers.
| 167 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:35:04am |
re: #166 iceweasel
I know we've had Special Forces in Yemen for some time now. I think these ME countries are starting to see the light. AQ ain't their friend.
| 168 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:35:56am |
re: #167 Cannadian Club Akbar
I know we've had Special Forces in Yemen for some time now. I think these ME countries are starting to see the light. AQ ain't their friend.
Northern Africa still might be a problem.
| 169 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:39:29am |
But before any progress can be made, the two countries have to agree not just which subjects should be covered -- India wants to focus on terrorism, Pakistan on Kashmir -- but even what is the right forum for dialogue.
India and Pakistan have struggled for years to find the best approach to talks. Unscripted summits have ended in failure; formal dialogue has become bogged down in bureaucracy; secret back-channel talks went unrecorded and failed to carry subsequent governments or public opinion along with them.
So Thursday's talks between Rao, India's top diplomat, and her Pakistani counterpart Salman Bashir are likely to be more about finding a framework for dialogue than making peace.
"We hope we can build, in a graduated manner, better communication and a serious and responsive dialogue to address issues of concern between our two countries," Rao told a conference hosted by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) in London on Monday.
Rao said the "essential focus" of the talks would be on persuading Pakistan to dismantle militant groups behind attacks on India. "Terror groups ... continue to recruit, train and plot attacks from safe havens across our borders," she said.
SNIP
| 170 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:39:58am |
re: #164 Cannadian Club Akbar
It also depends on the drug. They say coke laws are racist because crack carries a harder fine/sentence than powder. Oddly, most of the people who turn into crack heads are white, although I know of 1 guy who had a promising NBA career and the last time I saw him, he was broke and looking to score. Sadly, he signed a large contract when he went to the NBA, just to lose it all.
Some drug laws are racist. There's a study I can dig up about sentences given to first time drug offenders where there is no difference in the drug but the difference appears to be race. (These are juveniles and IIRC the study was controlled for factors like, academic record, parents appearing at hearing, etc).
The story i hear is that the urban (and often black) communities devastated by crack in the 90's, the slightly younger generation had a real antipathy to crack as a result of what they'd seen.
Meth seems to be the big problem as a nation for the US. Kinda has done (and is still doing) to small towns, rural areas, and white people what crack did in the early 90's in a few black urban communities.
Common denominator seems to be poverty and ease of access, and meth can be made anywhere by anyone.
| 171 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:41:19am |
| 172 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:41:19am |
re: #165 RogueOne
Morning folks.
Howdy RogueOne. CCA and I were talking about prison and drugs; apologies if anything I said was insensitive.
| 173 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:42:44am |
re: #170 iceweasel
I did a college paper about Meth (back then I think it was called Ice, no offense) We have meth labs in Florida, many of them. Usually in a trailer in the country. So, you're right.
| 174 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:44:19am |
re: #171 MandyManners
Michael Scheuer just called Pelosi a liar on Fox.
Is he the guy that ran the OBL wing of the CIA?
| 175 |
Taqyia2Me Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:46:52am |
re: #162 MandyManners
Now I am even more scared of a co-worker's impending return from a six week visit to his Yemeni homeland.
(hoping it's simply paranoia on my part...)
| 176 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:11am |
Georgetown University Law Professor David Cole told the justices that a part of the USA Patriot Act barring material support to terrorist organizations was too vague to withstand constitutional scrutiny.
“The government has spent a decade saying our clients cannot advocate for peace,” he said.
The case, Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project, exists at a crossroads between efforts to protect US national security by isolating certain designated terrorist groups and long-established American protections of the rights of free speech and association.
Mr. Cole said instead of threatening to convict peace activists for pushing political solutions on terror groups, the government should focus on prosecuting individuals for conduct that furthers a terrorist organization’s violent and illegal activities.
Cole encountered strong pushback from Justice Antonin Scalia, who said the government was within its power to order a blanket ban on any aid or assistance to terrorists.
Solicitor General Elena Kagan defended the government’s broad interpretation of the material-support statute, saying that Congress intended to block all assistance to terrorists. She called the measure a “vital weapon” in the US fight against terror.
SNIP
| 177 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:23am |
| 178 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:47:43am |
re: #175 Taqyia2Me
Now I am even more scared of a co-worker's impending return from a six week visit to his Yemeni homeland.
(hoping it's simply paranoia on my part...)
How old is he?
| 179 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:24am |
re: #174 Cannadian Club Akbar
Is he the guy that ran the OBL wing of the CIA?
Michael Scherer is a liar and torture apologist:
July 2009:
Michael Scheuer: Obama Doesn’t Care ‘About Protecting This Country’
Earlier this week, former CIA operative and torture apologist Michael Scheuer appeared on Fox News, where he told Glenn Beck (who nodded in agreement), “The only chance we have” to repair our national security apparatus “is for Osama bin Laden to deploy and detonate a major weapon in the United States.” Yesterday, on Alan Colmes’ radio show, Scheuer made similar comments about the national security stance of the U.S., saying that he doesn’t believe that President Obama wants to protect the country “if it costs him votes”:
COLMES: You don’t think the President of the United States, Barack Obama, cares about protecting this country.
SCHEUER: No, I don’t. Because I don’t think he realizes what the world is like outside the United States. [...]
COLMES: You don’t think he wants to protect the country?
SCHEUER: I don’t think he can, sir. [...]
COLMES: He doesn’t want to protect the country?
SCHEUER: Not if it costs votes.
He belongs on Beck, and on Fox.
| 180 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:34am |
re: #175 Taqyia2Me
Now I am even more scared of a co-worker's impending return from a six week visit to his Yemeni homeland.
(hoping it's simply paranoia on my part...)
If he has a backpack on and ask you to "push this button," don't.
//
| 181 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:49:41am |
The fall-out of that bastard Goldstone's blood libel keep on coming.
Backed by the Arab League, the resolution – which is expected to pass – grants a five-month extension to both sides following a progress report by Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon earlier this month. At the end of the five-month period, Ban is expected to report back to the UN in order to consider further action.
Though written in generally mild language, the resolution puts the Goldstone Report back on the agenda at the UN. In November, the General Assembly endorsed the report, written by a fact-finding team headed by Judge Richard Goldstone. The report, which accused both sides of war crimes during Operation Cast Lead, called for independent investigations to be launched within three months.
General Assembly president Ali Treki of Libya, visiting Egypt this week, told President Hosni Mubarak that he plans to hold a plenary meeting soon to consider a resolution regarding the implementation of the Goldstone recommendations. Jean-Victor Nkolo told reporters in New York that Treki would convene a meeting “at the earliest possible date.”
But sources said the plenary could be convened as early as Friday.
SNIP
| 182 |
Taqyia2Me Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:53:28am |
| 183 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:55:36am |
Top Republican Investigator Rep. Issa Indicates Openness To Probing Saudi Ownership Of Fox News
Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal owns the fourth largest stake in News Corp — the parent company of Fox News — making him the largest shareholder outside the family of News Corp CEO Rupert Murdoch. According to the Financial Times, News Corp announced today that it is purchasing a $70 million dollar stake in Prince Alwaleed’s Rotana Media, a Middle Eastern music and news conglomerate. Boasting about the increased cooperation between the Murdoch empire and his own media corporation, Prince Alwaleed said, “This is a qualitative leap not just for Rotana but for the whole Arab world.” Because Prince Alwaleed has publicly acknowledged that he has forced Fox News to edit its coverage he disliked, conservative activists have attacked the business partnership as “really dangerous for America.”
At CPAC, ThinkProgress asked Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), who serves as the top Republican investigator as the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, about the Saudi/Fox relationship. Issa said he was troubled in particular by foreign investors buying up American broadcasting companies. Asked specifically about Prince Alwaleed’s ownership of Fox News, Issa initially scoffed and assured us that he wasn’t worried because he “know[s] Rupert Murdoch.” But after being prodded about examples where Prince Alwaleed has indeed influenced Fox News coverage directly, Issa said he is open to holding an investigation of the network:
Video at link.
| 184 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:57:13am |
Student Steven Seagraves said he was about 10 feet away when an adult approached students and asked them: "Do you guys go to this school?"
When the students said they did, he shot them, Seagraves said.
Seventh-grade math teacher David Benke, a 6-foot-5 inch former college basketball player who oversees the school's track team, tackled the suspect as he was trying to reload his weapon.
SNIP
The sheriff's office identified the suspect as 32-year-old Bruco Strongeagle Eastwood, a man they say had visited the school before and was inside the building shortly before the shooting. Authorities have not said what his connection is to the school. He is expected to make his first court appearance Wednesday morning and may face at least two counts of attempted murder.
Eastwood has an arrest record in Colorado dating back to 1996 that includes menacing, assault, domestic violence and driving under the influence of alcohol, according to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation.
SNIP
| 185 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:57:33am |
| 186 |
Taqyia2Me Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:00:41am |
re: #185 MandyManners
I'd not worry.
Thanks, 'tis a very good thing I am busy, otherwise I know exactly where my mind would wander off to...
| 187 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:01:15am |
re: #172 iceweasel
Howdy RogueOne. CCA and I were talking about prison and drugs; apologies if anything I said was insensitive.
Not at all, I'm not the sensitive type and I agreed with your assessment. The effort to quash the 80's crack "plague" did cut across racial lines. I don't think it was necessarily intentional "lets lock up the black kids" but the end result was still the same.
| 189 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:04:44am |
re: #187 RogueOne
Not at all, I'm not the sensitive type and I agreed with your assessment. The effort to quash the 80's crack "plague" did cut across racial lines. I don't think it was necessarily intentional "lets lock up the black kids" but the end result was still the same.
No prob, but your story about your nephew (nephew in law, I think?) stays with me.
Didn't mean to suggest with my earlier comment that white people skate. There are racial biases in some drug laws, but in general they track (like the whole system does) socio-economic class, not race.
| 190 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:06:32am |
Yesterday, former Minnesota Senator Norm Coleman, former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin and former Eric Cantor Chief of Staff Rob Collins announced the launch of a new “action-tank” at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
With political superstars like former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, former ambassador to the E.U. Boyden Gray and former Senator Mel Martinez on their board, this new project will wield considerable political clout especially as Washington gears up for the upcoming 2010 congressional races and 2012 presidential election.
SNIP
| 191 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:08:15am |
re: #186 Taqyia2Me
Thanks, 'tis a very good thing I am busy, otherwise I know exactly where my mind would wander off to...
Just leave some bread crumbs.
| 192 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:08:17am |
re: #190 MandyManners
I really liked Jeb as gubner. This is a good project. Hope they keep focus.
| 193 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:13:14am |
re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar
I really liked Jeb as gubner. This is a good project. Hope they keep focus.
Their 'focus' is Wall Street, money, and the usual wingnut deal. Feb 6:
Wall Street Republicans Form ‘Action Tank’ To Push Corporate Agenda
Just two weeks after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of opening the floodgates of corporate donations into electoral politics, a class of Wall Street Republicans have assembled around a new GOP group that aims to capitalize on corporate America’s empowerment. According to The New York Times, the group aims to “develop and market conservative ideas…hoping to capitalize on the fundraising and electioneering possibilities opened up by a recent Supreme Court ruling.” “This administration as well as Citizens United — when you combine the two the prospects for funding these types of efforts are greatly enhanced,” said former senator Norm Coleman, one of the group’s organizers.
The Republican figures behind the American Action Network have a long history and symbiotic relationship with Wall Street. Here’s a breakdown of the key players in the group:
More info at link. Oh yeah.
| 194 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:16:22am |
Reminder: Poor Coleman is out of a job, since he lost it to Franken. Also:
Coleman’s record defending Wall Street bank interests includes his support of the 2005 Bush bankruptcy bill. The bill was widely panned for making bankruptcy more difficult for individuals including service members, veterans, and senior citizens. On top of that, Citigroup tapped both Barbour and Gillespie when the banking conglomerate needed representatives to look out for its interests on Capitol Hill.
| 195 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:17:27am |
re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar
I really liked Jeb as gubner. This is a good project. Hope they keep focus.
Maybe they'll radicalize the moderates enough to tell the SoCons to STFU.
| 196 |
Taqyia2Me Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:19:54am |
re: #191 MandyManners
Just leave some bread crumbs.
And my favorite Bible quote, "It is finished."
John 19:30
| 197 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:20:39am |
re: #195 MandyManners
Maybe they'll radicalize the moderates enough to tell the SoCons to STFU.
Sadly, no.
It might be a good idea to read sites other than Fox and Yahoo News. Then maybe you'd know about these things when they happen, and not 3 weeks later, and you might even know that this think tank is more wingnut welfare.
| 198 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:30:13am |
Pedestrians strolling downtown keep an eye out for the nearest concrete-reinforced bus-stop shelter in case public loudspeakers crackle with a 15-second warning to dive for cover. Many motorists forgo seat belts so they can ditch vehicles quickly.
A playground is equipped with 5-foot-wide concrete pipes that are brightly painted to look like giant caterpillars but double as children's bomb shelters.
"There is really no sense of security here at all," said Merilin Timsit, a 29-year-old mother of two.
Last month, the Israeli government said it was on the cusp of a technological breakthrough that would put such fears and precautions in the past. A new anti-rocket defense system, called Iron Dome, was presented as a high-tech umbrella that would allow Israelis to go about their lives while short-range rockets fired from Palestinian territories or Arab neighbors were blasted out of the sky.
SNIP
| 199 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:30:48am |
From Nearly Dead To Nearly Done: How The White House Refocused On Health Care To Finish It Off
Lots of good info, but here's the best bit--
The compromise plan is fairly close to what House and Senate leaders negotiated before the Massachusetts election, but Hill sources tell us that it was only after a regrouping period that the White House got back into the fray.
Congressional aides say they think Obama's team wanted to steer clear of any fallout if the negotiations collapsed and health care died.
Bingo.
| 200 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:37:21am |
After all, you don't often read about a couple of former hotel employees suing former bosses for allegedly firing them after conducting a drunken sex orgy in the hotel ballroom.
But last week, according to papers filed in U.S. District Court, the former employees and the Hilton Minneapolis settled their lawsuit. Unlike the attention-inducing complaint, however, no details were provided.
SNIP
At the time the suit was filed, Smith and Bezdichek said they were fired from their jobs after they complained about what they witnessed. Smith, who was the night manager of a hotel restaurant, said that she opened the door to a hotel banquet room and saw an orgy involving Hilton Hotel upper management.
"In fact, she observed Hilton executives on top of a table engaging in sexual activity," according to the suit.
After Smith walked away, she said, a hotel manager threatened to fire her. She was later fired, the suit alleges, after "a campaign of harassment and retaliation."
SNIP
| 201 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:37:41am |
re: #199 iceweasel
I thought the House didn't like the Senate bill, which is what the President's proposed bill leans toward.
| 202 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:39:03am |
| 203 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:40:09am |
re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar
Kinda like the scene in 'Eyes Wide Shut." Heh.
Shit like that is the main reason I don't go to the theatre.
| 204 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:40:30am |
re: #201 Cannadian Club Akbar
I thought the House didn't like the Senate bill, which is what the President's proposed bill leans toward.
Right, and if you see my link, the House Dems are a bit pissed (last paragraph).
| 205 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:42:15am |
re: #204 iceweasel
Right, and if you see my link, the House Dems are a bit pissed (last paragraph).
I read most of it. Didn't make it to the bottom. FAIL, CCA!!!!!
| 206 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:43:34am |
re: #179 iceweasel
Ice Weasal: How about if I think that Obama doesn't take the radical islamic threat as seriously as Bush did?
| 207 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:44:59am |
re: #203 MandyManners
Shit like that is the main reason I don't go to the theatre.
The movie was Teh Suck. You didn't miss anything. And actually, they had to put digital images in to block some of the sex action to get an "R" rating.
| 208 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:45:23am |
re: #189 iceweasel
No prob, but your story about your nephew (nephew in law, I think?) stays with me.
Didn't mean to suggest with my earlier comment that white people skate. There are racial biases in some drug laws, but in general they track (like the whole system does) socio-economic class, not race.
I'm sitting in my office talking to some of my guys. One guy was late due to "drug court", around here they'll keep you out of prison if you can make it a couple years clean but they test you 3-4 times a week. One of the other guys is wearing his D.O.C. coat that he brought back from prison. He did time for possession. Guess which guy is which color.
| 209 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:45:50am |
I assume someone posted this yesterday morning? Apologies if I'm repeating:
Tea Party Leader On Obama: 'Our Half White, Racist President'
A top Tea Party leader derided Barack Obama as "our half white, racist president" in an email to colleagues.
Mark Williams, the conservative talk radio host who has become a prominent spokesman for the Tea Party Express, sent an email in September -- obtained by TPMmuckraker -- to other leaders of the group, in which he appeared to be responding to charges of racism against himself.
Wrote Williams:
CNN went over more than seven thousand articles on my site; likely they also listened to the shows archived there too. No doubt they did a Lexis Nexis on me and found thirty years of work by and about me. The best that they could do as a result was string together three quotes, out of context, and throw in a false allegation of me calling Obama a "Nazi".
I was in the streets marching for civil rights while asshole southern sheriffs were swinging nail studded baseball bats at black's heads, and stood between black kids and even more fucked up northern assholes were throwing rocks and gas bombs at school buses in my hometown during forced busing for deseg.Two things you can always count on: I will defend my record on race to no one (sic), under any circumstances and, I will call out any racist, any time without regard to who they are ... and that includes our half white, racist president.
The Sacramento-based Williams has made frequent media appearances as a spokesman and leader of the Tea Party Express, which was created last year by a GOP consulting firm. He has written in the past that President Obama is "an Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug and a racist in chief."
| 210 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:46:16am |
re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar
If he has a backpack on and ask you to "push this button," don't.
//
If he asks you to pull his finger instead, he's probably working for the Joker.
| 211 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:46:34am |
re: #190 MandyManners
That's me: a moderate conservative. We need a group.
| 212 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:47:11am |
re: #206 sandbox
Ice Weasal: How about if I think that Obama doesn't take the radical islamic threat as seriously as Bush did?
I think he is. But other countries are starting to get serious with AQ. Not all Obama's doing but it is getting done.
| 213 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:47:12am |
re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar
The movie was Teh Suck. You didn't miss anything. And actually, they had to put digital images in to block some of the sex action to get an "R" rating.
Without the blocking it would've been rated X?
| 214 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:47:40am |
re: #211 sandbox
That's me: a moderate conservative. We need a group.
Maybe this will be a good one.
| 215 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:48:01am |
| 216 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:48:47am |
re: #208 RogueOne
I'm sitting in my office talking to some of my guys. One guy was late due to "drug court", around here they'll keep you out of prison if you can make it a couple years clean but they test you 3-4 times a week. One of the other guys is wearing his D.O.C. coat that he brought back from prison. He did time for possession. Guess which guy is which color.
I wouldn't even guess. Would need to know the place and county, the drugs involved.
If you forced me to guess I'd say both are white.
| 217 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:49:52am |
re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yes. Orgy scenes.
I reckon Scientology has no moral objections to that kind of stuff.
| 218 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:50:25am |
re: #206 sandbox
I think he does now. I don't think he did. I imagine that after his first real NSA briefing he went a bit gray around the gills.
He is taking some serious heat to Radical Islam. The guy who was running for POTUS would have never done what BHO has done.
In my opinion, the President had a serious "WTF?" moment within a few days of the inauguration.
But, because of his pre-election stance, he has to use the same words in public that he used during the campaign.
| 219 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:50:55am |
re: #206 sandbox
Ice Weasal: How about if I think that Obama doesn't take the radical islamic threat as seriously as Bush did?
Then I guess I'll have to ask you why you think that-- before I post some links that will completely humiliate you.
Please provide reasons and links and make this at least slightly interesting for me.
| 220 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:51:24am |
re: #216 iceweasel
I wouldn't even guess. Would need to know the place and county, the drugs involved.
If you forced me to guess I'd say both are white.
The guy with the DOC jacket is black.
| 221 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:53:32am |
re: #219 iceweasel
Moving the KSM and others trial from a military to civilian court. If the POTUS thought we are really in a war he wouldn't do that, IMO.
| 222 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:54:45am |
re: #221 sandbox
Moving the KSM and others trial from a military to civilian court. If the POTUS thought we are really in a war he wouldn't do that, IMO.
I don't agree with that, either. But the terrorist are dying or getting captured.
| 223 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:55:33am |
re: #221 sandbox
Moving the KSM and others trial from a military to civilian court. If the POTUS thought we are really in a war he wouldn't do that, IMO.
I wonder if the jackass would've stopped Nuremberg.
| 224 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:56:09am |
re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't agree with that, either. But the terrorist are dying or getting captured.
I don't agree with moving them to civilian court. Not disagreeing with the comment.
| 225 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:57:13am |
re: #216 iceweasel
I wouldn't even guess. Would need to know the place and county, the drugs involved.
If you forced me to guess I'd say both are white.
I'd have bet you'd have got it on your first try. The black guy went to DOC and the white guy got drug court. Both for basically the same offenses, one had a family that could afford an atty and one didn't.
| 226 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:57:23am |
Oh, good morning everybody. Mandy, Ice, CCA, Sandbox.
"I'm feelin' kind of ... anxious"
-Beetlejuice
| 227 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:57:45am |
re: #7 Slumbering Behemoth
That video went Epic Meme over night. Here is a vid with some clips of interviews of both guys, but mostly of the dude who got beat down.
Unsurprisingly, the exceedingly NSFW Encyclopaeda Dramatica has a more than complete compilation of information about the Epic Beard Man incident.
| 228 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:58:25am |
re: #225 RogueOne
I'd have bet you'd have got it on your first try. The black guy went to DOC and the white guy got drug court. Both for basically the same offenses, one had a family that could afford an atty and one didn't.
re: #220 Cannadian Club Akbar
The guy with the DOC jacket is black.
I win!! Where's my cookie?
| 229 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:59:25am |
re: #225 RogueOne
What's your job, if I may ask? Probation? Atty? Court reporter? Mr. Big?
| 230 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:59:29am |
re: #221 sandbox
Moving the KSM and others trial from a military to civilian court. If the POTUS thought we are really in a war he wouldn't do that, IMO.
Really. I did ask you to make this at least slightly interesting for me.
Reminder: According to the Bush DOJ, criminal courts are YAY!
(we've convicted 195 terrorists in criminal courts. Under Bush and clinton)
| 231 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 4:59:50am |
re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh, good morning everybody. Mandy, Ice, CCA, Sandbox.
"I'm feelin' kind of ... anxious"
-Beetlejuice
"Never trust a man who Tivo's Olympic Curling."-CCA
//
| 233 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:00:38am |
re: #225 RogueOne
I'd have bet you'd have got it on your first try. The black guy went to DOC and the white guy got drug court. Both for basically the same offenses, one had a family that could afford an atty and one didn't.
It's almost always the money, RogueOne.
| 235 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:02:19am |
I re: #230 iceweasel
I'm sorry you don't find my reasoning interesting. Neither did Martha Coakley.
I think Gerry Nadler is the Congressman for the former WTC lower Manhattan area. Does anyone know if he has taken a position against moving the trials to civilian courts?
| 236 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:03:29am |
re: #235 sandbox
Lawhawk would probably have your answer. He'll be here in an hour or so.
| 237 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:05:43am |
They had a special election in Tampa for a State House seat. Voter turnout: 4%.
| 238 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:06:04am |
re: #235 sandbox
I
I'm sorry you don't find my reasoning interesting
Your reasoning appears to be nonexistent, in that you had no idea that BUSH used criminal courts, that the BUSH DOJ endorsed the use of criminal courts, that at least 195 TERRORISTS were successfully tried and convicted in criminal courts, and are held in the federal system...
and all you have to justify your very sad ODS claim that "obama is weak on terror" is...the wingnut bat-squeak of 'criminal court!'
So sad.
| 239 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:06:28am |
re: #235 sandbox
I
I'm sorry you don't find my reasoning interesting. Neither did Martha Coakley.
I think Gerry Nadler is the Congressman for the former WTC lower Manhattan area. Does anyone know if he has taken a position against moving the trials to civilian courts?
His Wiki page says he's voted 97.5 per cent along party lines.
| 241 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:09:23am |
| 242 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:10:42am |
re: #240 sandbox
What is "ODS"?
The cry made by some when the heat on BHO gets too high for their comfort.
| 243 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:10:46am |
re: #240 sandbox
ODS - Obama Derangement Syndrome
BDS - Bush Derangement Syndrome
PDS - Palin Derangement Syndrome
CJDS - Charles Johnson Derangement Syndrome...
| 244 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11:16am |
re: #221 sandbox
Moving the KSM and others trial from a military to civilian court. If the POTUS thought we are really in a war he wouldn't do that, IMO.
Is it that you think the normal American system of justice is ineffective, corrupt and broken? KSM and AQ would probably agree. Do you think KSM is so special and supernaturally scary, and that his actions are of such epic import that they completely defy the ability of the normal American system to deal with it? KSM and AQ would probably be flattered.
| 245 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11:24am |
re: #240 sandbox
What is "ODS"?
The syndrome you suffer from, whereby you condemn Obama as 'weak on terror' when he does exactly what Bush did.
Like pretending the Bush admin never held criminal trials for terrorists. Or endorsed them. Etc.
| 246 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11:24am |
re: #242 MandyManners
C'mon, Mandy. It's as real as BDS ever was.
| 247 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11:44am |
re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What's your job, if I may ask? Probation? Atty? Court reporter? Mr. Big?
I run the family business, metal/fab shop. Mostly we do structural steel jobs (strip malls and every restaurant imaginable) and stairways/handrails. Lots and lots of stairways and handrails.
| 248 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:13:10am |
| 250 |
sandbox Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:15:29am |
re: #244 negativ
I think we are in an undeclared war with radical islam. I don't want to give enemy combatants captured overseas access to our civilian courts. I don't think that is some kind of way out position. A majority of the American people don't agree with moving the trials of KSM and others from military to civilian courts. And Pres. Obama may end up reversing Holder's dopey decision.
| 251 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:15:44am |
re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
C'mon, Mandy. It's as real as BDS ever was.
While true, it seems to be a bit overused these days to tar anyone who criticizes Obama "excessively" - where excessive is subject to the name-caller's taste.
| 252 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:15:45am |
re: #249 MandyManners
Oh, teh deeng. It hurtzzz.
We know, honey. Because you complain about them so often!
| 253 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:15:46am |
re: #248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I went from white-collar to a very dirty blue collar and I really enjoy it. It's fun to take raw steel and turn it into a finished product, take it out in the field and have everything line up within 1/8" over 60'.
| 254 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:18:31am |
re: #253 RogueOne
When I switched careers and started working on heavy equipment, I hated it. Then one day I just loved it. Rolling around in dirt. Oil, grease, sweating when it's 95 degrees. I miss that.
| 255 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:20:21am |
re: #251 thedopefishlives
While true, it seems to be a bit overused these days to tar anyone who criticizes Obama "excessively" - where excessive is subject to the name-caller's taste.
Criticising Obama for doing exactly what Bush did is ODS.
In some cases, it is BDS-- those people who criticised Bush for the same actions but have no problem when Obama does the same thing.
We're talking here about the people who either suffer from ODS or ignorance-- either they didn't know Bush did these things, and now they supposedly care because it's Obama, or they did know and liked it when Bush did it, and only hate it now because it's Obama.
ODS.
| 256 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:20:37am |
re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar
When I switched careers and started working on heavy equipment, I hated it. Then one day I just loved it. Rolling around in dirt. Oil, grease, sweating when it's 95 degrees. I miss that.
Ugh. I mean, I enjoy getting my hands a bit dirty and working in the grease, oil, and gasoline as much as the next guy; but I don't tolerate heat very well. If I'm going to work, put me in the air-conditioned shop with an engine and leave me alone for a few days.
| 257 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:21:26am |
re: #255 iceweasel
You don't have to get your hackles up just for me, ice. I just walked into the thread and haven't the slightest clue what the fight is about. All I know is that ODS is an overused term.
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:21:50am |
re: #256 thedopefishlives
Ugh. I mean, I enjoy getting my hands a bit dirty and working in the grease, oil, and gasoline as much as the next guy; but I don't tolerate heat very well. If I'm going to work, put me in the air-conditioned shop with an engine and leave me alone for a few days.
When the equipment is broken on site and can't be moved, you don't have a choice.
| 259 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:24:30am |
re: #257 thedopefishlives
You don't have to get your hackles up just for me, ice. I just walked into the thread and haven't the slightest clue what the fight is about. All I know is that ODS is an overused term.
No hackles up, fishie.
ODS isn't overused here.
| 260 |
Taqyia2Me Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:27:35am |
From the pen of John Yoo:
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
“….Attorney General Holder could have stopped this sorry mess earlier, just as his predecessor had tried to do. OPR slow-rolled Attorney General Michael Mukasey by refusing to deliver a draft of its report until the 2008 Christmas and New Year holidays. OPR informed Mr. Mukasey of its intention to release the report on Jan. 12, 2009, without giving me or Judge Bybee the chance to see it—as was our right and as we'd been promised.
Mr. Mukasey and Deputy Attorney General Mark Filip found so many errors in the report that they told OPR that the entire enterprise should be abandoned. OPR decided to run out the clock and push the investigation into the lap of the Obama administration. It would have been easy for Mr. Holder to concur with his predecessors—in fact, it was critical that he do so to preserve the Justice Department's impartiality. Instead the new attorney general let OPR's investigators run wild. Only Mr. Margolis's rejection of the OPR report last week forced the Obama administration to drop its ethics charges against Bush legal advisers.
Why bother fighting off an administration hell-bent on finding scapegoats for its policy disagreements with the last president? I could have easily decided to hide out, as others have. Instead, I wrote numerous articles (several published in this newspaper) and three books explaining and defending presidential control of national security policy. I gave dozens of speeches and media appearances, where I confronted critics of the administration's terrorism policies. And, most importantly, I was lucky to receive the outstanding legal counsel of Miguel Estrada, one of the nation's finest defense attorneys, to attack head-on and without reservation, each and every one of OPR's mistakes, misdeeds and acts of malfeasance.
I did not do this to win any popularity contests, least of all those held in the faculty lounge. I did it to help our president—President Obama, not Bush. Mr. Obama is fighting three wars simultaneously in Iraq, Afghanistan, and against al Qaeda. He will call upon the men and women serving under his command to make choices as hard as the ones we faced. They cannot meet those challenges with clear minds if they believe that a bevy of prosecutors, congressional committees and media critics await them when they return from the battlefield….”
That would be the same Miguel Estrada, of whom Senator (little) Dick Durbin, Dbagger, IL said, “Sure he’s Hispanic but he’s not OUR Hispanic.”
It’s time for the end of the Holder era as US Attny General.
| 261 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:27:35am |
re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar
When the equipment is broken on site and can't be moved, you don't have a choice.
Granted, but that's why I don't work in a job like that. ;)
re: #259 iceweasel
No hackles up, fishie.
ODS isn't overused here.
Don't take this personally, but I'd disagree. I know there are some here that throw that term around at anyone they don't like that says anything even remotely critical of the President. I don't think there are very many, true, but I also don't think that straight-up hatred of the President is as widespread here as some others might suggest.
| 262 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:27:43am |
re: #259 iceweasel
Of course that would be a matter of opinion; the person using the term will never admit it is over used and the person sufering from ODS will always complain it is over used.
| 263 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:29:35am |
re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar
Add to that the foreman / manager / Oberführer standing over your shoulder and asking, "have you found the problem yet? How long will it take?" over and over and over and over and over until you want nothing more than to take your screwdriver and stab and stab and stab and stab until the buzzing stops.
| 264 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:30:17am |
re: #261 thedopefishlives
. I know there are some here that throw that term around at anyone they don't like that says anything even remotely critical of the President. I don't think there are very many, true, but I also don't think that straight-up hatred of the President is as widespread here as some others might suggest.
Do point me too it when you see someone claim ODS and you think it's unwarranted. I'd enjoy that.
I have my own issues with Obama and AFAIK so does every liberal here.
| 265 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:32:44am |
re: #263 negativ
Add to that the foreman / manager / Oberführer standing over your shoulder and asking, "have you found the problem yet? How long will it take?" over and over and over and over and over until you want nothing more than to take your screwdriver and stab and stab and stab and stab until the buzzing stops.
You should put that on a resume.
///
| 266 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:36:02am |
re: #263 negativ
Actually, I was never bothered. I would look up the part, order the parts needed and fix it. My boss spent his time scratching lottery tickets. About $100 worth a day. No shit.
| 267 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:39:35am |
re: #260 Taqyia2Me
From the pen of John Yoo:
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
“….Attorney General Holder could have stopped this sorry mess earlier, just as his predecessor had tried to do. OPR slow-rolled Attorney General Michael Mukasey by refusing to deliver a draft of its report until the 2008 Christmas and New Year holidays. OPR informed Mr. Mukasey of its intention to release the report on Jan. 12, 2009, without giving me or Judge Bybee the chance to see it—as was our right and as we'd been promised.
Mr. Mukasey and Deputy Attorney General Mark Filip found so many errors in the report that they told OPR that the entire enterprise should be abandoned. OPR decided to run out the clock and push the investigation into the lap of the Obama administration. It would have been easy for Mr. Holder to concur with his predecessors—in fact, it was critical that he do so to preserve the Justice Department's impartiality. Instead the new attorney general let OPR's investigators run wild. Only Mr. Margolis's rejection of the OPR report last week forced the Obama administration to drop its ethics charges against Bush legal advisers.
Why bother fighting off an administration hell-bent on finding scapegoats for its policy disagreements with the last president? I could have easily decided to hide out, as others have. Instead, I wrote numerous articles (several published in this newspaper) and three books explaining and defending presidential control of national security policy. I gave dozens of speeches and media appearances, where I confronted critics of the administration's terrorism policies. And, most importantly, I was lucky to receive the outstanding legal counsel of Miguel Estrada, one of the nation's finest defense attorneys, to attack head-on and without reservation, each and every one of OPR's mistakes, misdeeds and acts of malfeasance.
I did not do this to win any popularity contests, least of all those held in the faculty lounge. I did it to help our president—President Obama, not Bush. Mr. Obama is fighting three wars simultaneously in Iraq, Afghanistan, and against al Qaeda. He will call upon the men and women serving under his command to make choices as hard as the ones we faced. They cannot meet those challenges with clear minds if they believe that a bevy of prosecutors, congressional committees and media critics await them when they return from the battlefield….”That would be the same Miguel Estrada, of whom Senator (little) Dick Durbin, Dbagger, IL said, “Sure he’s Hispanic but he’s not OUR Hispanic.”
It’s time for the end of the Holder era as US Attny General.
Yeah, that was a big win for Yoo: he was found to be a shitty lawyer who didn't understand his duty, but not quite shitty enough for it to be actionable.
He'll want that featured highly on his resume.
| 268 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:46:36am |
re: #194 iceweasel
Reminder: Poor Coleman is out of a job, since he lost it to Franken. Also:
You can't blame that bankruptcy bill on the Republicans alone. It passed with big numbers in both houses. Lots of "D"'s voted "aye".
When the banks decide they really want something, they pay real money and they get it done.
There are a few lobbies that are very difficult to beat when they are highly motivated: banks, realtors, pharma, health care and the NRA.
| 269 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:47:01am |
re: #267 garhighway
You don't have a small problem with the appropriateness of criminally charging government lawyers who give their clients legal advice? That is an incredibly bad road to start down. What happens when the next administration comes in and they disagree with a previous admins policy? Are we going to start charging politico's because we disagree with their assessments? That's why we have elections.
| 270 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:49:40am |
re: #259 iceweasel
No hackles up, fishie.
ODS isn't overused here.
Yep! It's the number of instances of ODS - that generates the talk about ODS. I called it when it was happening to Bush, now it's happening to Obama and it's worse. The denial is just the same as ever though.
| 271 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:51:29am |
re: #268 garhighway
You can't blame that bankruptcy bill on the Republicans alone. It passed with big numbers in both houses. Lots of "D"'s voted "aye".
When the banks decide they really want something, they pay real money and they get it done.
There are a few lobbies that are very difficult to beat when they are highly motivated: banks, realtors, pharma, health care and the NRA.
You bet. Cf my earlier comments upthread about the Dems and their general uselessness.
Those lobbies are also all over the Dems.
| 272 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:52:51am |
re: #269 RogueOne
You don't have a small problem with the appropriateness of criminally charging government lawyers who give their clients legal advice? That is an incredibly bad road to start down. What happens when the next administration comes in and they disagree with a previous admins policy? Are we going to start charging politico's because we disagree with their assessments? That's why we have elections.
There's two ways to look at Yoo: he knowingly gave bad advice that got people tortured and killed (because it was the answer his bosses wanted), or he did gave the answers he did because he was a terrible lawyer. I am fine with the legal process sorting out which it was.
| 273 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:54:57am |
re: #268 garhighway
banks, realtors, pharma, health care and the NRA
Not Unions, tho. Interesting omission.
| 274 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:57:22am |
re: #270 Jimmah
Yep! It's the number of instances of ODS - that generates the talk about ODS. I called it when it was happening to Bush, now it's happening to Obama and it's worse. The denial is just the same as ever though.
The only problem I have is when the FAR left pulls the race card if someone complains about the President. I hate that. But the "you did it to my guy, so I'll do it to yours" bullshit doesn't hold water.
| 275 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:57:38am |
re: #271 iceweasel
You bet. Cf my earlier comments upthread about the Dems and their general uselessness.
Those lobbies are also all over the Dems.
Big surprise: legislators on both sides of the aisle are human beings, subject to the same pressures, impulses and weaknesses.
If you are in Congress and think that staying there is desirable, you are raising money. Maybe not every day, but certainly every week. Campaigns cost that much. So long as they have to raise giant sacks of cash to stay there, they will be open to persuasion by those with giant sacks of cash to offer them. The only real alternative is to elect the wealthy, who don't have those issues, or go to public financing.
| 276 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:00:46am |
re: #273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not Unions, tho. Interesting omission.
They have a fair amount of money, but for whatever reason they don't seem to get anything substantial done with it. They wanted one thing from this Congress (card check) and haven't gotten it. So on my list of lobbies that get what they want, they don't make the cut.
| 277 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:00:48am |
re: #275 garhighway
The one Republican House member who voted for the HC bill had his contributions drop by 40%. My radio told me that so I don't have a link.
| 278 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:01:34am |
re: #274 Cannadian Club Akbar
The only problem I have is when the FAR left pulls the race card if someone complains about the President. I hate that. But the "you did it to my guy, so I'll do it to yours" bullshit doesn't hold water.
Don't forget "and it's worse", as it seems to be when power changes hands.
| 279 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:03:17am |
re: #276 garhighway
Were not the unions behind the 'cadilac plan exception'?
and many of the stricter osha regs?
and the minimum wage laws?
| 280 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:04:01am |
re: #276 garhighway
They have a fair amount of money, but for whatever reason they don't seem to get anything substantial done with it. They wanted one thing from this Congress (card check) and haven't gotten it. So on my list of lobbies that get what they want, they don't make the cut.
They got a gigantic thingy from the President when he decided not to tax their healthcare benefits as "Cadillac Plans", no?
They're gonna tax me, though.
Gee. Shame I don't have bags of cash.
Your partisan-slip is showing.
| 281 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:04:23am |
re: #272 garhighway
I think that's a bad road to start down. When the next administration takes over are you going to support the criminal investigations of the Obama admin in regards to their dealings with TARP, the auto bailout, or the legal underpinnings of the stimulus package? Lawyers give advice, they aren't responsible for the actions of politicians. If you think Cheney illegally tortured the shit out of someone then prove that case, don't take it out on the lawyers. Like I said, we have elections to change policy we don't need to criminalize analysis disagreements.
| 282 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:04:56am |
re: #277 Cannadian Club Akbar
The one Republican House member who voted for the HC bill had his contributions drop by 40%. My radio told me that so I don't have a link.
| 283 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:05:34am |
re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They got a gigantic thingy from the President when he decided not to tax their healthcare benefits as "Cadillac Plans", no?
They're gonna tax me, though.
Gee. Shame I don't have bags of cash.
Your partisan-slip is showing.
Has that passed?
Has ANYTHING regarding health care reform passed? If so, I missed it.
| 284 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:06:17am |
| 285 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:06:21am |
re: #280 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They got a gigantic thingy from the President when he decided not to tax their healthcare benefits as "Cadillac Plans", no?
They're gonna tax me, though.
Gee. Shame I don't have bags of cash.
Your partisan-slip is showing.
Lets not forget the auto bailouts. That was a direct money transfer to the auto workers unions. Crap, even the teachers union in this state sued over that one.
| 286 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:06:59am |
re: #278 Stonemason
Don't forget "and it's worse", as it seems to be when power changes hands.
ORLY.
Yawn.
Check the archives and you'd find me saying that it's worse when Obama continues or extends certain Bush?Cheney policies-- because at least they were open about their theories w/r/t exectutive power.
Read some more in the genuine left political blogosphere (occasionally 'visiting' the comments of dKos or HuffPo doesn't count) and you'll find my position is pretty common on the left.
| 287 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:07:02am |
re: #283 garhighway
Oh. So their lobbying power hasn't helped because it hasn't passed?
Give me a fucking break. C'mon Gar.
Did the administration blink because of Union pressure?
| 288 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:07:36am |
re: #253 RogueOne
My grandfather was a tool-and-die man, and I found it fascinating. But two of the companies he worked for fucked him over royally-- one of them right after he'd helped prevent unionization.
| 290 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:08:30am |
re: #281 RogueOne
I think that's a bad road to start down. When the next administration takes over are you going to support the criminal investigations of the Obama admin in regards to their dealings with TARP, the auto bailout, or the legal underpinnings of the stimulus package? Lawyers give advice, they aren't responsible for the actions of politicians. If you think Cheney illegally tortured the shit out of someone then prove that case, don't take it out on the lawyers. Like I said, we have elections to change policy we don't need to criminalize analysis disagreements.
And that's where we ended up, isn't it? The system worked. But no review, total immunity, no matter how willfully bad the advice? Zero accountability?
| 291 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:09:07am |
re: #286 iceweasel
Good morning Ice, I never said you said it was worse...but, if one were to go up thread, someone did say it was worse, hence my post.
| 292 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:10:08am |
re: #289 Cannadian Club Akbar
Add World Nut Daily.
Why would I?
Are you claiming that they were ever honest, about anything?
That they had any principles they adhered to, regardless of what party was in power?
Surely not.
| 293 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:10:56am |
Anyone else a bit concerned by various government "anti-hate" institutions infringing on free speech?
Santa Clara County has such a government office which paid for the distribution of a flier on behalf of one "religious hate group" attacking another "religious hate group". It's a hateapalooza!
| 294 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:11:12am |
re: #292 iceweasel
Why would I?
Are you claiming that they were ever honest, about anything?
That they had any principles they adhered to, regardless of what party was in power?Surely not.
No, no. Add them to Orly. Fuckin' kooks, the whole bunch of them.
| 295 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:11:19am |
re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh. So their lobbying power hasn't helped because it hasn't passed?
Give me a fucking break. C'mon Gar.
Did the administration blink because of Union pressure?
Of course it did. And the unions were well positioned to pressure the White House: they are ideological brethren.
But my scorebook only includes what gets passed. Into laws. And the HCR play isn't over yet, so I'm not scoring it.
| 296 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:11:57am |
re: #286 iceweasel
and I do read left wing stuff, skipping the comments altogether because when I see commentors calling for the death of anyone it makes me sick (much like I called out a poster here who called for the death of right-wing nut jobs that hoarde weapons)
I read everything I can and then form an opinon, I am not silly enough to think my opinion is fact when it comes to politics. Ask me about masonry or water treatment and I can speak facts, the rest is opinion.
| 297 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:12:18am |
re: #293 MagnaniomousCoward
Also in that meeting, there seems to be some kind of labor dispute going on with the county.
| 298 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:13:44am |
re: #295 garhighway
minimum wage then, do you score that?
| 299 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:13:46am |
re: #296 Stonemason
and I do read left wing stuff, skipping the comments altogether because when I see commentors calling for the death of anyone it makes me sick (much like I called out a poster here who called for the death of right-wing nut jobs that hoarde weapons)
I read everything I can and then form an opinon, I am not silly enough to think my opinion is fact when it comes to politics. Ask me about masonry or water treatment and I can speak facts, the rest is opinion.
If yu're reading lefty blogs where people are calling for death you're reading the wrong ones.
(That would be almost all the big ones, as they don't moderate comments enough)
No prob. On phone, will be back
| 300 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:13:56am |
re: #285 RogueOne
Lets not forget the auto bailouts. That was a direct money transfer to the auto workers unions. Crap, even the teachers union in this state sued over that one.
I seem to recall the auto bailouts were one of those multi-administration affairs. Did I misunderstand?
| 301 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:16:39am |
re: #300 garhighway
I seem to recall the auto bailouts were one of those multi-administration affairs. Did I misunderstand?
I think TARP 1 (Bush) was returning money to taxpayers. If Bush gave the auto industry money, it wasn't near the amount of TARP 2. I might be wrong.
| 302 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:16:54am |
re: #298 Stonemason
Minimum wage is a good thing. The Lowell Mills were not a libertarian paradise.
Do people not know how terrible it was in factories, mills, and mines, back in the day?
| 303 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:18:50am |
re: #293 MagnaniomousCoward
Anyone else a bit concerned by various government "anti-hate" institutions infringing on free speech?
Nope. What 'govt "anti-hate institution"' (your words) is infringing on free speech?
Who is a 'gov't anti-hate institution'?
Yeah, ACLU member here, I'm not aware of any gov't institition that is infringing on free speech.
| 304 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:19:43am |
re: #302 Obdicut
Not that minimum wage, the raise in the minimum from last year.
And as a disclaimer, I am pointing out union political wins not as a bad thing but as a "they take enough money from me every week, they darn well better win a few" thing.
| 305 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:19:51am |
re: #250 sandbox
I think we are in an undeclared war with radical islam. I don't want to give enemy combatants captured overseas access to our civilian courts. I don't think that is some kind of way out position. A majority of the American people don't agree with moving the trials of KSM and others from military to civilian courts. And Pres. Obama may end up reversing Holder's dopey decision.
Ultimately, it was BHO's decision.
| 306 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:21:31am |
re: #301 Cannadian Club Akbar
I think TARP 1 (Bush) was returning money to taxpayers. If Bush gave the auto industry money, it wasn't near the amount of TARP 2. I might be wrong.
I think you are. TARP 1 was for the banks, and that was Paulson's. But GWB also extended bridge loan financing to GM and Chrysler, and put them on the dole. BHO had the choice of then pulling the plug or continuing the program. He chose to continue it, no doubt to the delight of lots of UAW workers, and lots of others in the rust belt whose livelihoods depend on the domestic auto industry one way or another.
Good idea? Beats me. But if we are unhappy about the unemployment rate we have now, what do we think it would have been had GM and Chrysler gone BK for real?
There were nothing but bad choices there.
| 307 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:23:34am |
re: #304 Stonemason
And as a disclaimer, I am pointing out union political wins not as a bad thing but as a "they take enough money from me every week, they darn well better win a few" thing.
Okay. I'm not sure what that means, but okay. Yes, unions support people who help pass legislation favorable to unions, if that's what you meant.
| 308 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:23:59am |
re: #272 garhighway
There's two ways to look at Yoo: he knowingly gave bad advice that got people tortured and killed (because it was the answer his bosses wanted), or he did gave the answers he did because he was a terrible lawyer. I am fine with the legal process sorting out which it was.
He isn't a terrible lawyer, and there will be no legal process looking at the Yoo memos.
| 309 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:24:14am |
re: #306 garhighway
I saw somewhere that unemployment would be around 25% if GM and Chrysler went under. And yes, include the factories that just make specific parts.
| 310 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:25:01am |
re: #307 Obdicut
This started because garhighway listed lobby's and omitted unions, then, when it was pointed out, claimed that the union lobby has never won anything from the government.
| 311 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:26:03am |
re: #303 iceweasel
Nope. What 'govt "anti-hate institution"' (your words) is infringing on free speech?
Who is a 'gov't anti-hate institution'?Yeah, ACLU member here, I'm not aware of any gov't institition that is infringing on free speech.
I should have been more specific. There's something called the Network for a Hate Free Community, which a county employee works for - Delorme McKee-Stovall. She distributed a flier on behalf of the Church of Scientology (sometimes called a hate group) targeting ex-scientologists and "anonymous" (called a hatr group by Scientology).
The claims in the flier was unsubstantiated, printed with taxpayer money, and McKee-Stovall offered to halt the distribution of the flier if the protesters would promise to not protest against Scientology.
As an ACLU member, you see the first amendment issues here both regarding the abridgment of free speech clause and the establishment clause. And then there's the potential defamation of the people targeted.
| 312 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:28:09am |
re: #190 MandyManners
That will be worth watching.
| 313 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:28:29am |
re: #311 MagnaniomousCoward
If a gubment employee used gubment money/supplies to distribute a flier for Scientology (cult) she should be fired.
| 314 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:29:17am |
re: #288 Obdicut
My grandfather was a tool-and-die man, and I found it fascinating. But two of the companies he worked for fucked him over royally-- one of them right after he'd helped prevent unionization.
My shop is in an old auto town. There are a lot of older, very talented tool and die and engineering guys that came up through GM. There are a few new battery companies that are trying to put them to use since GM shut down the last of their plants years ago.
| 315 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:29:35am |
| 316 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:30:43am |
re: #290 garhighway
And that's where we ended up, isn't it? The system worked. But no review, total immunity, no matter how willfully bad the advice? Zero accountability?
There was accountability, it was an election. Your viewpoint won this time, how are you going to feel when your viewpoint loses sometime and the next admin wants to criminalize your views? Like I said, bad road to start down.
| 317 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:31:58am |
re: #313 Cannadian Club Akbar
Does it matter that she's a county employee and not a federal employee?
| 318 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:32:29am |
re: #306 garhighway
I think you are. TARP 1 was for the banks, and that was Paulson's. But GWB also extended bridge loan financing to GM and Chrysler, and put them on the dole. BHO had the choice of then pulling the plug or continuing the program. He chose to continue it, no doubt to the delight of lots of UAW workers, and lots of others in the rust belt whose livelihoods depend on the domestic auto industry one way or another.
Good idea? Beats me. But if we are unhappy about the unemployment rate we have now, what do we think it would have been had GM and Chrysler gone BK for real?
There were nothing but bad choices there.
He didn't just continue the handout, he bought the companies and turned them over to the unions. A lot of people, like the teachers union in my state, lost a fortune in the deal.
| 320 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:32:43am |
re: #317 MagnaniomousCoward
Does it matter that she's a county employee and not a federal employee?
Is she using stuff bought with taxpayer money?
| 321 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:33:17am |
| 322 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:34:15am |
re: #302 Obdicut
Minimum wage is a good thing. The Lowell Mills were not a libertarian paradise.
Do people not know how terrible it was in factories, mills, and mines, back in the day?
Good Morning Lizards.
I agree with Obdicut that minimum wage was important back in the day, but the current increases to mw have nothing to do with factories, mills and mines. These industries pay much better than mw. Minimum wage increases apply to entry level non-skilled labor and have the effect of decreasing the number of jobs an employer can offer.
| 323 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:35:39am |
re: #320 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yes, according to the Scientologists they were also issued badges identifying them as representing the county. I don't know if that part is true, but the fliers were indeed printed with taxpayer money and she did this in her working hours as part of her job. It's not a "frolic" in terms of tort, so the county would also be liable if her actions resulted in protesters being attacked or something like that. I think that's what the first speaker in the video is alluding to about "harms way".
| 324 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:35:42am |
re: #311 MagnaniomousCoward
I should have been more specific. There's something called the Network for a Hate Free Community, which a county employee works for - Delorme McKee-Stovall. She distributed a flier on behalf of the Church of Scientology (sometimes called a hate group) targeting ex-scientologists and "anonymous" (called a hatr group by Scientology).
The claims in the flier was unsubstantiated, printed with taxpayer money, and McKee-Stovall offered to halt the distribution of the flier if the protesters would promise to not protest against Scientology.
As an ACLU member, you see the first amendment issues here both regarding the abridgment of free speech clause and the establishment clause. And then there's the potential defamation of the people targeted.
Am I reading this right?
McKee-Stovall was head of Santa Clara County's network for a hate free community and was afraid of Anonymous (as she should be)?
And didn't really get what was going on?
Looks to me like that's the deal.
| 325 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:36:54am |
re: #314 RogueOne
He was freaking amazing.
My favorite story about him: Back when I was a boxer, and in my prime physical condition, I was visiting him at his house. He was unspooling and bending some thick gauge copper-zinc tubing to make a refrigeration coil out of. He was probably sixty-five, and using his bare hands to bend the tubing. He was about halfway done. I said, "Hey, Grandpa, why don't you let me help you with that?" He said, "Sure!" and handed it to me.
I couldn't bend it a single inch.
That and that when my dad, as a young, very poor man, had his car (a loaner from a friend) break down on his way to a college interview. It broke down in New York. He had no money for repairs. So he called Grandpa-- in Massachussets. Grandpa drove out there, diagnosed the problem, went to a local hardware store. They didn't have the parts he needed (It was some pump that was broken), so he puttered around, picked up an assortment of stuff, and then hand-crafted the pump and installed it. When my dad thanked him, Grandpa just said, "Oh, I always wanted to work on one of these. It was fun." He gave Dad a bit of money in case it broke again, and took off back home.
Dad took the car into a shop later to see if the temporary fix that Grandpa had installed needed to be replaced, and the guy looked it over, whistled and, said, "That is a goddamn good design. Keep that in there."
He was a hell of a man, and I miss him.
| 326 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:38:19am |
re: #324 iceweasel
She had several meeting with "anonymous" and the ex-scientologists, so while she might claim to have been duped by Scientologists posing as "concerned citizens", I don't think she has that deniability anymore. Especially when she demanded that the protesters stop protesting as a quid-pro-quo for stopping the potentially illegal flier distribution.
| 327 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:38:20am |
Yes there would be a pool, but its central purpose would be to ward off fire should the local native plants not do the job. And every imaginable green building technique would be used.
But all of this does not mollify those who police the mountainside along one of the most gorgeous stretches of American coastline, where public access versus exclusive seclusion is an ever-raging debate that even a member of the most vocally earth-hugging rock band on the planet cannot escape.
Standing high above the Pacific Ocean, wearing his signature black beanie, David Evans, or the Edge, his nom de guitar, made the case for his proposed 156-acre development that would include five houses, his own among them. The project would “respect and honor the landscape,” he said, and set a new standard for building in remote areas by incorporating the environment rather than mowing it down.
“We just had this dream of building a house that was in perfect harmony with these hills,” Mr. Evans said. “We see it as something that could be a bench mark of sustainability.”
But Mr. Evans’s vision has attracted the ire of his potential neighbors in an exclusive enclave below, as well as the Santa Monica Mountain Conservancy, who together deplore the road that would be built to get to the development — one that would snake up with switchbacks — and the amount of dirt trucked in and out of the site.
SNIP
“What is so silly is they say it is so green,” said Paul Edelman, the chief of planning and natural resources for the conservancy, which has drafted a letter opposing the development. “But every time you drive up there, any savings you would have are shot by fossil fuel.”
SNIP
Unless Evans is asking Edelman to pay his gas bill, that's none of his business.
| 328 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:38:35am |
re: #324 iceweasel
She printed/handed out Scientology fliers. Targeting former Scientologist. County's dime.
| 329 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:39:33am |
re: #328 Cannadian Club Akbar
She printed/handed out Scientology fliers. Targeting former Scientologist. County's dime.
Doesnt look like that from what I'm googling.
| 330 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:40:20am |
Boss gets in the way of my Lizard time.
Later.
| 331 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:41:13am |
re: #329 iceweasel
Doesnt look like that from what I'm googling.
From MC's comment:
The claims in the flier was unsubstantiated, printed with taxpayer money, and McKee-Stovall offered to halt the distribution of the flier if the protesters would promise to not protest against Scientology.
| 332 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:41:50am |
re: #326 MagnaniomousCoward
addendum:
Although she no longer can pretend to be just ignorant, there certainly is a tinge of incompetence or over-work here. The flier contained an URL for more information about the Hate Free network: hateistheenemy.org
The link had expired, so "anonymous" took it over and put up their own site there.
So yeah, some incompetence, but incompetence does not rule out malice, and neither is an excuse for breaking the law. If this was indeed illegal.
| 333 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:42:31am |
re: #326 MagnaniomousCoward
She had several meeting with "anonymous" and the ex-scientologists, so while she might claim to have been duped by Scientologists posing as "concerned citizens", I don't think she has that deniability anymore. Especially when she demanded that the protesters stop protesting as a quid-pro-quo for stopping the potentially illegal flier distribution.
Right, ok.
Doesn't look like a 'gov't organisation suppressing free speech' which is, IIRC, what you originally claimed.
| 334 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:43:20am |
re: #329 iceweasel
Sunshine Law/FOIAF/information requests have been submitted to prove exactly who paid for this stuff. Requests have also been filed for information about the alleged crimes.
| 335 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:44:05am |
re: #332 MagnaniomousCoward
addendum:
Although she no longer can pretend to be just ignorant, there certainly is a tinge of incompetence or over-work here. The flier contained an URL for more information about the Hate Free network: hateistheenemy.org
The link had expired, so "anonymous" took it over and put up their own site there.So yeah, some incompetence, but incompetence does not rule out malice, and neither is an excuse for breaking the law. If this was indeed illegal.
So we have one moron.
Not a government organisation dedicated to suppressing free speech.
| 336 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:44:36am |
re: #333 iceweasel
"Stop protesting or we'll put out this (potentially illegal and defamatory) flier about you" sounds like an attempt to suppress free speech to me.
| 337 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:45:23am |
re: #336 MagnaniomousCoward
"Stop protesting or we'll put out this (potentially illegal and defamatory) flier about you" sounds like an attempt to suppress free speech to me.
Yes, but not sponsored by any gubment entity.
| 338 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:45:58am |
re: #336 MagnaniomousCoward
"Stop protesting or we'll put out this (potentially illegal and defamatory) flier about you" sounds like an attempt to suppress free speech to me.
By one moron.
Who is going to be punished.
There is no gubbmint conspiracy dedicated to stamping out free speech.
Try again.
| 339 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:46:19am |
Morning everyone.
Ice, as an Arrested Development fan, I think you'll like this interview:
[Link: www.avclub.com...]
| 340 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:47:50am |
Just imagine if this were a Christian group. The howls would be defeaning.
| 341 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:48:56am |
re: #340 MandyManners
Just imagine if this were a Christian group. The howls would be defeaning.
Agreed.
| 342 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:50:37am |
re: #338 iceweasel
It remains to be seen if she'll be punished.
I'm not alleging some huge Glenn Beck-style conspiracy to stop free speech, if that's what you thought. I'm just pointing out one example of where a county government government overstepped the law, and suggesting that this style of "anti-hate" group, like the Canadian human rights commissions need to be monitored and not neglected. They were a good idea at the beginning, but jihadis and cults will try to bend them to their own agenda.
| 343 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:51:21am |
Risch's spokesman, Brad Hoaglun, said that the State Department said Laura Silsby and Charisa Coulter would be released later this week. The information was passed to the State Department by the U.S. Embassy in Port-au-Prince after an embassy consular official attended a hearing Tuesday on the missionaries' case, Hoaglun said.
SNIP
| 344 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:51:58am |
| 345 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:52:04am |
re: #342 MagnaniomousCoward
Was it done by the gubment or a gubment employee?
| 346 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:54:25am |
re: #342 MagnaniomousCoward
It remains to be seen if she'll be punished.
I'm not alleging some huge Glenn Beck-style conspiracy to stop free speech, if that's what you thought. I'm just pointing out one example of where a county government government overstepped the law, and suggesting that this style of "anti-hate" group, like the Canadian human rights commissions need to be monitored and not neglected. They were a good idea at the beginning, but jihadis and cults will try to bend them to their own agenda.
No, you aren't. This is what you said:
Anyone else a bit concerned by various government "anti-hate" institutions infringing on free speech?
I just read a few things about it. You're talking about one employee (albeit an important one) in a tiny group who was freaked out by the tactics of Anonymous vs Scientology. Most of the people here don't even know what that means, and if they did, they would be freaked out too.
Sorry, there is no gubbmint conspiracy to infringe on free speech.
This woman is being punished and has some other legal shit happening now too.
| 348 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:55:32am |
re: #346 iceweasel
I didn't read what you did. Are they gonna fire her?
| 349 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:56:28am |
I noticed something about the presidential wartime executive power debate. Yoo was asked to lay out how far we could go, and did, infamously.
What I notice even with all this anger at Yoo yet no clamor for a constitutional amendment limiting executive wartime power.
The harshest critics of Yoo and his thinking are meekly accepting a mere decision by Obama (and every follow on President) to not water board. He could change his mind two seconds after the next big arrest, and Yoo's findings would still stand in Obamas favor.
| 350 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 6:59:23am |
re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar
It was not done privately, it was done in her work hours, acting in her official capacity, with tax money, so that makes it the gubment and they're liable for it. The county supervisors can correct the situation though, so it's not inevitable that this will end up in court.
re: #346 iceweasel
I still think my first sentence is warranted. Yes, I'm concerned about these government institutions infringing on free speech, but I'm not advocating for their complete abolishment either.
| 351 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:00:24am |
"They have assassinated Orlando Zapata Tamayo. The death of my son has been a premeditated murder" Reina Luisa Tamayo told El Nuevo Herald in a telephone interview.
"The managed to do what they wanted. They ended the life of a fighter for human rights."
SNIP
| 352 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:01:15am |
re: #350 MagnaniomousCoward
re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar
It was not done privately, it was done in her work hours, acting in her official capacity, with tax money, so that makes it the gubment and they're liable for it. The county supervisors can correct the situation though, so it's not inevitable that this will end up in court.
Fire her butt.
| 353 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:01:20am |
re: #348 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't read what you did. Are they gonna fire her?
She was the head of the little "network for a hate free community" for santa clara county and Anonymous played her:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
When a public official fails to do their homework, it can be entertaining.
When the homework should involve some research into Scientology, it's hard to feel sorry for the sucker who chose to listen to the nice man from the UFO cult.This is the story of one such outrageous association, involving Scientology, the county's Network For A Hate Free Community, and the gaggle of citizen activists loosely known as Anonymous.
* xenubarb's diary :: ::
*Before you read this, I recommend you visit my diaries and read the pieces on Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone and the account of Albuquerque and Second Chance. These things are what happens when Scientology gets its tentacles into local government. Stone sponsored Ordinance 884 at the behest of the Scientologists, who gave him a booklet cataloging a whole array of allegations against the collective of online activists known as Anonymous. Despite being repeatedly corrected, Stone has doggedly chosen to rely on unsubstantiated accusations alleged by a cult with a long reputation of smearing its enemies.
The Second Chance issue in Albuquerque was fairly amusing. This cult front group uses the same fraudulent detox treatment found in Scientology's anti-drug rehab, Narconon. Somehow, this group secured the lease of an unused jail facility for the program, which was funded by public money.
Amusingly, the Second Chance staff slithered out around midnight one night. A TV crew was present, thanks to a tipoff. Second Chance left town, leaving staff unpaid and owing the city thousands of dollars. Some large appliances belonging to the facility disappeared with the Second Chance roadshow.Speaking of public money, there's not a lot of it available in California at the moment. States, counties and cities are all in budget crises. Many little county offices might feel pressured to justify their expense and existence, which has led up to a problem one county official might regret tackling.
Ms. Delorme McKee-Stovall is head of the Network For A Hate-Free Community, one of the marginal offices Santa Clara County might decide to cut out of the budget. So it must've seemed like Christmas and Halloween all rolled together when she was approached by Scientologist John Allender of the San Jose Scientology organization. He somehow, despite all the information available about Scientology abuses, convinced her that his "church" is the target of internet terrorists. Suddenly, a purpose for her existence has presented itself! Ms. Stovall is a lucky little bureaucrat indeed! And, because Mr. Allender is such a nice man in a nice suit representing a religion, she doesn't bother to spend one second researching the project she's about to plummet into.
More at the link. She's an idiot, but she isn't a Scientologist, and she should probably lose her job but it isnt what our pal is claiming.
| 354 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:02:29am |
re: #350 MagnaniomousCoward
They need to fire her. And if her supervisors knew what she was doing, fire them, too.
| 355 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:02:58am |
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates notified Congress on Monday that the Navy intended to change its policy. Congress has 30 working days to object. Unless the House or Senate moves to block the shift, the policy could go into effect as soon as mid-April.
Allowing women to serve as regular crew members would shatter a gender barrier that has stood since the U.S. submarine force was created in 1900. The new policy would allow women to serve in cramped quarters while at sea for months at time, a prospect that for years has managed to forestall consideration of such a change.
SNIP
| 356 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:03:03am |
re: #347 iceweasel
Goddamit, you'd know all about that.
Hey come on now ice - talk nice and respectful - say 'allahdammit' not 'goddammit'/
Ps If Walter is reading - taking the lord's name in vain is considered by christians to be a sin against God - it has never in my experience been framed as an offence against believers!
| 357 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:05:17am |
Gotta make me some breakfast. BBL.
| 358 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:07:13am |
re: #349 Rightwingconspirator
I noticed something about the presidential wartime executive power debate. Yoo was asked to lay out how far we could go, and did, infamously.
What I notice even with all this anger at Yoo yet no clamor for a constitutional amendment limiting executive wartime power.
The harshest critics of Yoo and his thinking are meekly accepting a mere decision by Obama (and every follow on President) to not water board. He could change his mind two seconds after the next big arrest, and Yoo's findings would still stand in Obamas favor.
That's deliberate, RWC.
Obama suspended the EIT, and the CIA black sites, but that means nothing since from 2005 on the black sites have been increasingly transfered to JSOC.
It's like not closing Gitmo, and doubling Bagram.
There is no reason for people to pretend that Obama and/or Holder would ever prosecute Bush or anyone in the Bush admin for the Yoo doctrine. Ridiculous.
The only prosecutions Holder announced are super lowlevel, and they will have the effect of legitimising the Yoo memos ex post facto. indeed, that is their purpose.
Yoo and bybee were exonerated this weekend, btw. No prosecutions. No surprise.
| 359 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:08:30am |
re: #353 iceweasel
Are you reading that right? As far as I know, Scientology played her, and when this was pointed out to her, she didn't recant but persisted.
| 360 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:10:24am |
re: #359 MagnaniomousCoward
Are you reading that right? As far as I know, Scientology played her, and when this was pointed out to her, she didn't recant but persisted.
She was too stupid to do the work, scared of Anonymous, and Anonymous also played her--you didn't read the link I gave, did you?
Ironically, the hate group conned the anti hate group into handing out hate literature against citizen activists protesting the abuses of the hate group!
Amusingly, the stationery used by Ms. Stovall featured a link to a dead website. Anonymous quickly took advantage of that mistake. The link now redirects to an Anonymous website explaining the reasons behind the flier.
Double duh.
| 361 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:14:06am |
Republicans v secular America
With blatant disregard for the first amendment, Republicans' intolerance of US secularism means things are turning uglyIf you're part of secular America – that is, if you're an atheist, an agnostic, a religious liberal or even a mainstream believer who thinks religion should be kept out of politics and vice-versa – then you should be very afraid of what the Republican party has in store for you in 2012.
No news there, you might say. The Republicans, as we all know, have been in thrall to the Christian right since the Reagan era. But there's something new, something more intolerant, something truly ugly in the works. And if you don't believe me, let's start with Tim Pawlenty, unassuming governor of Minnesota in his day job, fire-breathing Christian warrior and aspiring presidential candidate in his spare time.
"I want to share with you four ideas that I think should carry us forward," Pawlenty said on Friday at the annual gathering of the Conservative Political Action Committee, or CPAC. After invoking "basic constitutional principle and basic common sense," he continued:
"The first one is this: God's in charge. God is in charge ... In the Declaration of Independence it says we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights. It doesn't say we're endowed by Washington, DC, or endowed by the bureaucrats or endowed by state government. It's by our creator that we are given these rights."
Never mind Pawlenty's fundamental and no doubt deliberate misreading of the founders' intent. (Thomas Jefferson, the primary author of the Declaration of Independence, is well-known for having cut up a Bible to remove all supernatural references to Jesus.) How, in practice, does Pawlenty envision "God's in charge" as a governing principle?
Pawlenty didn't say. But he oozed mild-mannered hatred for anyone who doesn't share his beliefs. In a bizarre closing in which he invoked the civil war general (and future president) Ulysses S Grant as some sort of rough-around-the-edges, proto-Tea Party role model, Pawlenty trashed anyone who attended "Ivy League schools" or who go to "chablis-drinking, brie-eating parties in San Francisco". (You can watch Pawlenty's address at CSPAN.org, starting at the 1:38:30 mark.) It sounded like a parody of Pat Buchanan's famous 1992 "culture war" speech. Except that Pawlenty is one of the Republicans' two most plausible candidates for president in 2012.
continued -
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
| 362 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:14:24am |
re: #360 iceweasel
Read it again. In that quote, "the hate group" means Scientology, while "the anti hate group" means the county network, while "citizen activists" means "anonymous" and the ex-scientologists.
The broken link was just a result of incompetence at the county office and the Church of Scientology. John Allender, one of the senior officials at the local Church of Scientology worked on this.
It was not anonymous making a public official hand out literature against itself, though I can understand your confusion. It's Daily Kos after all.
| 363 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:15:24am |
re: #349 Rightwingconspirator
I noticed something about the presidential wartime executive power debate. Yoo was asked to lay out how far we could go, and did, infamously.
What I notice even with all this anger at Yoo yet no clamor for a constitutional amendment limiting executive wartime power.
The harshest critics of Yoo and his thinking are meekly accepting a mere decision by Obama (and every follow on President) to not water board. He could change his mind two seconds after the next big arrest, and Yoo's findings would still stand in Obamas favor.
PS-- that is also because Obama has kept, in every instance, the Bush/Cheney expansion of executive power-- when he hasn't expanded it. And he has.
| 364 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:17:28am |
re: #362 MagnaniomousCoward
I'm quite aware what it means.
You, however, are still the person who claimed this, to start it off:
Anyone else a bit concerned by various government "anti-hate" institutions infringing on free speech?
Wrong then, wrong now.
| 365 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:18:07am |
re: #325 Obdicut
Sounds like he was a good man. The sad thing I run into quite often is how many men have no idea how to fix their own stuff, not their house, car or even computers. I don't know if it's because our economy has become so specialized, if it's due to lack of fathers, or what the underlying problem is. My former father-in-law had to call a plumber to fix the wax seal on his toilet, a job that takes all of 30 mins and a wrench.
| 366 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:19:16am |
re: #324 iceweasel
Am I reading this right?
McKee-Stovall was head of Santa Clara County's network for a hate free community and was afraid of Anonymous (as she should be)?
And didn't really get what was going on?
Looks to me like that's the deal.
Sometimes Anon can be funny as hell. You're right, she should be afraid of them.
| 367 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:21:27am |
re: #366 RogueOne
Sometimes Anon can be funny as hell. You're right, she should be afraid of them.
They're funny and I remember their initial attack on Scientology.
But I'd be afraid of them. "anonymous== because none of us are as cruel as all of us".
| 369 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:29:49am |
re: #364 iceweasel
OK good that you understood it.
Any claim that she was "just played" goes out the window since she's met with and spoken on the phone with local "anonymous" and ex-scientologists several times.
Consider a police officer or security guard who gets rough with somebody or makes a false arrest. Is the police department/company responsible for his actions? Yes they are. Rights were infringed by them. If corrective action is taken like reprimanding/punishing/firing the officer, that will shift the blame to the correct party. The department/company would still be economically liable.
So I think rights were infringed, but the situation can be corrected.
re: #367 iceweasel
Anonymous is just you and me - the general public - that's sort of the joke.
However, in this flier, it specifically targets the anti-Scientology protesters in the county and accuses them of crimes, including one specific protester identified not by name but by other descriptions and accused of being a sex offender and carrying a concealed weapon - charges were actually dropped. Some lawyers claim this might be actionable in court as defamation and "false light" defamation.
| 370 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:30:30am |
re: #367 iceweasel
They're funny and I remember their initial attack on Scientology.
But I'd be afraid of them. "anonymous== because none of us are as cruel as all of us".
We are anonymous. We are legion.
| 371 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:32:02am |
re: #369 MagnaniomousCoward
No, Anonymous is something else.
That you don't know IS the joke.
RogueOne knows. I guarantee lazardo knows. Jimmah knows. And a few others here know too.
| 372 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:33:09am |
re: #370 thedopefishlives
Heh. I think this Penny Arcade comic sums it up.
| 373 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:33:37am |
| 374 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:33:50am |
re: #369 MagnaniomousCoward
So innocent. I have to admit, I didn't know about Anonymous until about 6 months ago, and I learned about them right here on LGF. It's strange that as a computer geek I don't have more familiarity with them, but I've also been a bit sheltered.
| 375 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:36:00am |
re: #374 thedopefishlives
So innocent. I have to admit, I didn't know about Anonymous until about 6 months ago, and I learned about them right here on LGF. It's strange that as a computer geek I don't have more familiarity with them, but I've also been a bit sheltered.
You're a nice person hanging out on nice internet places, I suspect.
| 376 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:36:53am |
Report: Son Of Hamas Founder Was Top Israeli Agent
The son of one of Hamas' founders served as a top informant for Israel for more than a decade, providing top-secret intelligence that helped prevent dozens of suicide bombings and other attacks against Israelis, a newspaper reported Wednesday.
Mosab Hassan Yousef, dubbed as "the Green Prince" by his handlers, was one of the Shin Bet security service's most valuable sources, Israel's Haaretz daily said. His reports led to the arrests of several high-ranking Palestinian figures during the violent Palestinian uprising that began in 2000, according to the newspaper.
Yousef's father — Sheik Hassan Yousef — was a founding member of the Islamic militant group Hamas in the 1980s. He is currently serving a six-year sentence in an Israeli prison for his political activities.
The younger Yousef converted to Christianity and moved to California in 2007.
| 377 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:37:46am |
Richard Dawkins - The Trouble With Homeopathy
The British House of Commons Select Committee on Science and Technology has issued a report on homeopathy, recommending that "The Government should stop allowing the funding of homeopathy on the [National Health Service]."
[Link: richarddawkins.net...]
| 378 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:38:32am |
| 379 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:38:48am |
re: #375 iceweasel
You're a nice person hanging out on nice internet places, I suspect.
What's more, all of my friends are "nice people". I know maybe one or two people outside the Lizard collective that run with that crowd. I tend to be the security programmer trying to defend the system, rather than the cracker trying to break it.
| 380 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:39:13am |
re: #371 iceweasel
I know people who protest Scientology as "Anonymous". I also know people who discuss TV and movies as "Anonymous" and don't really care about Scientology. I've seen the Fox TV report about the people who make people's lives a nightmare by prank calls. They are all just as much Anonymous.
| 381 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:39:25am |
Not sure if this has been posted. Chase that tail.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
| 382 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:39:47am |
| 383 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:40:52am |
re: #371 iceweasel
You've piqued my interest, what is anonymous?
| 384 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:41:38am |
re: #379 thedopefishlives
What's more, all of my friends are "nice people". I know maybe one or two people outside the Lizard collective that run with that crowd. I tend to be the security programmer trying to defend the system, rather than the cracker trying to break it.
Defenders wind up knowing a little bit about those they're defending against. Just how it works.
| 385 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:41:41am |
re: #381 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not sure if this has been posted. Chase that tail.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
They're going to wind up with a suspect list roughly as long as the census report of the United States.
| 386 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:41:51am |
re: #376 Killgore Trout
Heh. Not really surprised by that revelation. The Shin Bet knows their enemies well.
| 387 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:42:47am |
re: #384 iceweasel
Defenders wind up knowing a little bit about those they're defending against. Just how it works.
I've never had to face off against a real hacker, just some annoying scriptkiddies who happened to find an open port to play with. From what little I know, I hope I never have to.
| 388 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:42:48am |
re: #373 MandyManners
But Wilders is totally unlike "far-right" leaders in the rest of Europe. He is a harsh critic of racism and anti-Semitism, and he is no friend of "far-right neo-fascist" leaders such as the French National Front's Jean-Marie Le Pen or the British National Party's Nick Griffin. In fact, while those leaders are broadly anti-Semitic and isolationist, Wilders was actually shaped by years spent in Israel as a young man. Hence, he is one of the Jewish state's strongest European defenders, an advocate of the war on terror, and a firm critic of Jihad--stances which have won him fans among national security hawks in the U.S. Furthermore, his economic agenda is radically libertarian compared to most Europeans and could be a vanguard for European reform.
But you can be sure his campaign will be filled with controversy. The Netherlands should buckle up for a wild ride on the Wilders Express.
The rest of the article you posted seems to be rather apologetic on behalf of Wilders, excited with anticipation even.
Personally, I think he's a dangerous wanker. Regardless of his claimed opposition to Le Pen etc, his election would be a major 'win' for fascists across Europe.
| 389 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:44:58am |
re: #388 Jimmah
Wilders called for the banning of a book, that is really all I needed to know to stop linking or following his nuttiness. While one can find fault with written words, the availability of those words is sacrosanct to me.
| 390 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:46:26am |
re: #382 Alouette
Now that he's outed, he's dead.
I would hope that he has a new identity in California.
| 391 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:46:46am |
re: #382 Alouette
Now that he's outed, he's dead.
Probably not. Salman Rushdie is still walking around. Hamas can barely manage an assassination in Gaza or the West Bank. They'd be hard pressed to pull off an assassination in Los Angeles.
| 392 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:47:08am |
re: #390 MandyManners
I hear California also has good plastic surgeons.
| 393 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:48:00am |
re: #392 MagnaniomousCoward
I hear California also has good plastic surgeons.
And, for that, I am thankful every day.:)
| 394 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:52:59am |
| 395 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:55:24am |
| 396 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:55:36am |
re: #391 Killgore Trout
Probably not. Salman Rushdie is still walking around. Hamas can barely manage an assassination in Gaza or the West Bank. They'd be hard pressed to pull off an assassination in Los Angeles.
There's a gracious big pool of locals, from which a self-dispatched "misunderstander of Islam" might emerge. Good thing is that this guy was a Shin Bet operative, and is probably streets better at watching his back than any jihadist frother could be.
| 397 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:55:38am |
re: #394 The Sanity Inspector
Maybe Greece is looking to tap the same WWII gravy train that China is riding on in its relationship to Japan?
| 398 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:56:25am |
re: #379 thedopefishlives
What's more, all of my friends are "nice people". I know maybe one or two people outside the Lizard collective that run with that crowd. I tend to be the security programmer trying to defend the system, rather than the cracker trying to break it.
I watched them in real-time completely screw some guy who posted a pr0n pic of himself on an amateur site. He mistakenly had his work i.d. laying on the table and when you zoomed in you could read his name. From there they managed to get into his facebook acct and his email. It was hilarious, they sent the picture to HIS MOM! from his own email acct. They managed to string along his facebook friends and family for an hour before someone realized his page had been hacked.
I know it was completely a wrong thing to do and I almost felt bad for the guy but since it wasn't me it really was funny. I'm betting the guy learned a very valuable lesson about net security and posting naked pics of yourself on the web.
| 399 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:57:29am |
| 400 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:57:50am |
re: #396 The Sanity Inspector
An informant is not the same as a trained operator, just to stress an important point. He could have been trained to protect himself, but it's not a given. Hopefully he's been given the same consideration as somebody in a witness protection program.
| 401 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:57:51am |
re: #358 iceweasel
Sorry, I'm late to respond-Commuted in to work early.
With all that there is very little outrage. I sense no serious play for even legislative restrictions or even "white paper" recommendations to the executive as to where to draw the line. I must assume in a real fight for existence, all bets are off. Yoo's findings would certainly apply.
But of course that is not what we have. The GWOT has to make all its own rules, and have the balls to stand by them, transparently. Not going to happen, I know. :(
As for prosecutions of Bush or Yoo, well that was just not going to happen given the scope of the terror attacks. No more than past presidents were going to be prosecuted for Manzanar, or the WW1 sedition/survelliance/mail opening violations.
| 402 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:58:34am |
re: #365 RogueOne
I'm okay with house-handiwork, but I can build a computer from components, which I think would make my Grandpa proud. Hope so, anyway.
He also left me my most treasured political momento: A bathmat featuring JFK, RFK, and Jesse Jackson. A bathmat.
He was a consummate Massachusetts Democrat, especially after the second company completely fucked him over.
| 403 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:59:00am |
re: #398 RogueOne
I know it was completely a wrong thing to do and I almost felt bad for the guy but since it wasn't me it really was funny. I'm betting the guy learned a very valuable lesson about net security and posting naked pics of yourself on the web.
Rule #1: If you don't want other people to see it, it never touches a computer.
| 404 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 7:59:03am |
re: #376 Killgore Trout
It would have been far more entertaining for the Mossad to claim that Haniyeh was a Mossad agent - that's why he is still alive and kicking all these years and why Israeli intel had been so good at whacking mid level Hamas terrorists all these years. Watch 'em squirm trying to argue that one...
Yousef could have had multiple motives for working with Israel all those years, including opposing terrorism or trying to get Israel to do the dirty work of whacking opponents to his father.
| 405 |
MagnaniomousCoward Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:02:46am |
Have a nice day. As a lizardoid minion I have the added benefit of claws, which helps on these icy Norwegian slopes and hills, but I have to retract them in public, so good shoes are in order.
| 406 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:02:49am |
re: #388 Jimmah
The rest of the article you posted seems to be rather apologetic on behalf of Wilders, excited with anticipation even.
Personally, I think he's a dangerous wanker. Regardless of his claimed opposition to Le Pen etc, his election would be a major 'win' for fascists across Europe.
Looking at the rest of that 'Weekly Standard' site's articles, it looks like a regular hotbed of wingnuttery, so it's sly shilling for Wilders doesn't surprise me at all.
| 407 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:03:05am |
re: #403 thedopefishlives
Also, when I was in college we learned basic security measures in the computer lab. If you left your workstation unlocked (or chose a poor password, depending on how adventurous the collective geek crowd was that night), you would return to your keyboard to find any number of unpleasant things done to your account, from the harmless "background image change" to truly evil things like tampering with the login file.
| 409 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:07:59am |
| 410 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:08:35am |
re: #406 Jimmah
Looking at the rest of that 'Weekly Standard' site's articles, it looks like a regular hotbed of wingnuttery, so it's sly shilling for Wilders doesn't surprise me at all.
Indeed it is, Jimmah-ski. Indeed it is.
Nas ne degonyat, comrade.
| 411 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:09:08am |
re: #361 Jimmah
He's not all wrong-He goes over the edge with this.
In the context that if these rights come from man, then man can remove them at a whim. With a principled belief that these rights are so important they superseded all mans laws- We see the real intent. The idea these rights are larger than us is critical, regardless of their heavenly origin or not so heavenly.
"The first one is this: God's in charge. God is in charge ... In the Declaration of Independence it says we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights. It doesn't say we're endowed by Washington, DC, or endowed by the bureaucrats or endowed by state government. It's by our creator that we are given these rights."
| 412 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:09:55am |
re: #404 lawhawk
It would have been far more entertaining for the Mossad to claim that Haniyeh was a Mossad agent - that's why he is still alive and kicking all these years and why Israeli intel had been so good at whacking mid level Hamas terrorists all these years. Watch 'em squirm trying to argue that one...
Yousef could have had multiple motives for working with Israel all those years, including opposing terrorism or trying to get Israel to do the dirty work of whacking opponents to his father.
Diabolical.
| 413 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:11:16am |
re: #410 iceweasel
I wonder what they sound like without all the audio editing >>
| 414 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:13:48am |
Protests Turn Violent as General Strike Grips Greece
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]
| 415 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:14:52am |
re: #397 MagnaniomousCoward
Maybe Greece is looking to tap the same WWII gravy train that China is riding on in its relationship to Japan?
It's all but forgotten nowadays, how in the late 40s and 1950s West Germany paid huge restitutions, tried and jailed thousands of the worst Nazis, and saturated their airwaves and school curricula with the evils of Nazism. "The evil that men do..."
| 416 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:15:33am |
Italy Masked Finances Worse than Greece: Pangalos
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]
"Italy did more than Greece to mask the state of its finances to secure euro zone entry, Greek Deputy Prime Minister Theodoros Pangalos said, adding that Germany's history made it ill-placed to criticize his country."
I think we are about to witness the breakup of the Euro Zone...
| 417 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:16:38am |
The number of people that are supposedly linked to the Hamas assassination in Dubai is now 26. 15 more suspects were added to the list.
| 418 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:17:01am |
re: #363 iceweasel
I agree in full. As much as you and I might lean differently we all (all four of us as the two couples around here) want our inalienable rights, our basic philosophy of humane conduct with prisoners of war intact, even at high cost. This actually ties to my hazardous support of the first quote from Pawlenty in the article.
| 420 |
garhighway Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:18:01am |
re: #310 Stonemason
This started because garhighway listed lobby's and omitted unions, then, when it was pointed out, claimed that the union lobby has never won anything from the government.
You lie.
| 421 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:19:36am |
re: #413 windsagio
I wonder what they sound like without all the audio editing >>
Ha! That's like saying "I'd like to see what kind of mess vermeer would have made of those pictures without his camera obscura". It's the job of the artist to bring something beautiful into the world by any means necessary in my view. Kind of the opposite of sporting competition where everything has to be fair and on a level playing field.
| 422 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:20:15am |
| 423 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:21:22am |
re: #421 Jimmah
Tatu just bugs me, they're such a manufactured band, between the fact that theres little evidence they can actually sing and the 'hey we're hot lesbians!' schtick.
Its worse than Avril Lavigne :p
| 425 |
Locker Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:23:49am |
re: #423 windsagio
Tatu just bugs me, they're such a manufactured band, between the fact that theres little evidence they can actually sing and the 'hey we're hot lesbians!' schtick.
Its worse than Avril Lavigne :p
I just can't see a band when I read that name... only Ricardo Montalban in a white suit...
| 426 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:25:12am |
re: #424 lawhawk
Heh.
Given their love of conspiracy and their inherent paranoia, can you imagine the disruption in the ranks?
| 427 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:25:50am |
re: #422 MandyManners
Making money off of the Green Cash Cow eh? There's money in them thar windmills. (Subsidy money)
| 428 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:26:37am |
re: #426 MandyManners
Sounds like something somebody would have said about the Jews in the past.
Might wanna check for prejudice >>
| 429 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:27:14am |
re: #427 Bagua
Making money off of the Green Cash Cow eh? There's money in them thar windmills. (Subsidy money)
Should go nicely with the chunk of cash Soros has given CAP.
| 430 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:28:33am |
re: #426 MandyManners
Now, imagine doing something like that to al Qaeda and the Taliban by saying that you know, the reason that we've been so damned good at whacking Taliban #2 and #3 guys is that we've turned Mullah Omar over to us. Watch 'em scurry about after that. They wont know who to trust - and maybe, just maybe, they might see the futility of fighting the US when their top guy is rumored to have switched sides.
| 431 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:28:48am |
re: #429 MandyManners
Should go nicely with the chunk of cash Soros has given CAP.
Biggest con-game on earth at the moment.
| 432 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:29:58am |
re: #421 Jimmah
Ha! That's like saying "I'd like to see what kind of mess vermeer would have made of those pictures without his camera obscura". It's the job of the artist to bring something beautiful into the world by any means necessary in my view. Kind of the opposite of sporting competition where everything has to be fair and on a level playing field.
There's such a thing as too much post-production on a song, just like there's such a thing as too much makeup on a woman. You wonder what they're trying to compensate for, sometimes.
| 433 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:31:30am |
re: #432 The Sanity Inspector
That's exactly it. Theres a difference between using production to enhance the music, and using it to mask a marketable face that can't sing :p
| 434 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:31:54am |
re: #423 windsagio
Tatu just bugs me, they're such a manufactured band, between the fact that theres little evidence they can actually sing and the 'hey we're hot lesbians!' schtick.
Its worse than Avril Lavigne :p
I don't care that they are manufactured - they did a few great numbers, that's all that counts. I did see a recent performance though and thought their initial charm had faded away into something semi pornographic, which is sad, but I love those early songs.
| 435 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:31:56am |
Partner in peace watch. A former Fatah thug, whose name was included in an amnesty deal three years ago, was involved in a plot to start firing rockets from the West Bank into Israel.
The PA's security leadership is deeply bothered by this affair, which joins the killing of Rabbi Meir Hai near the settlement of Shavei Shomron by a Fatah cell, and fears that the previously wanted Fatah men may no longer be committed to the agreement signed with Israel.PA officials noted recently that following the diplomatic stalemate and the Fatah men's dissatisfaction with their personal situation, there has been a certain weakening in the wanted men's commitment to the lull and amnesty agreements. The PA is considering appointing a committee to handle the situation of former al-Aqsa activists.
Gee, how unexpected. /NOT
| 436 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:32:07am |
re: #428 windsagio
Sounds like something somebody would have said about the Jews in the past.
Might wanna check for prejudice >>
A certain Soros-hater here has also linked holocaust denial sites in the frantic quest to discredit Soros. And had the comment deleted.
| 437 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:32:17am |
re: #430 lawhawk
Now, imagine doing something like that to al Qaeda and the Taliban by saying that you know, the reason that we've been so damned good at whacking Taliban #2 and #3 guys is that we've turned Mullah Omar over to us. Watch 'em scurry about after that. They wont know who to trust - and maybe, just maybe, they might see the futility of fighting the US when their top guy is rumored to have switched sides.
Worked nicely with some of the old mobsters back in Boston years ago. The FBI would leak the Whitey Bulger was giving them info (which he was, btw) and Gerry Angioulo was non too pleased. Then they would intimate to Raymond Patriaca that Angioulo was giving info (he wasn't, btw) and non of them trusted each other
| 438 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:32:28am |
re: #429 MandyManners
Should go nicely with the chunk of cash Soros has given CAP.
| 439 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:33:20am |
re: #430 lawhawk
Now, imagine doing something like that to al Qaeda and the Taliban by saying that you know, the reason that we've been so damned good at whacking Taliban #2 and #3 guys is that we've turned Mullah Omar over to us. Watch 'em scurry about after that. They wont know who to trust - and maybe, just maybe, they might see the futility of fighting the US when their top guy is rumored to have switched sides.
Watch the turbans explode!!!
| 440 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:33:22am |
re: #434 Jimmah
Sure a good performance is a good performance. You can't take that away from them (nor would I want to).
I just don't like how music works usually.
Then again, I was neck-deep in Seattle grunge when I was in HS, so maybe my view on these things is skewed ;)
| 441 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:33:59am |
re: #434 Jimmah
Also! Whats your opinion on T-Pain and Auto-tune? >>
| 442 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:34:14am |
re: #440 windsagio
Sure a good performance is a good performance. You can't take that away from them (nor would I want to).
I just don't like how music works usually.
Then again, I was neck-deep in Seattle grunge when I was in HS, so maybe my view on these things is skewed ;)
heh.
| 443 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:34:30am |
re: #432 The Sanity Inspector
There's such a thing as too much post-production on a song, just like there's such a thing as too much makeup on a woman. You wonder what they're trying to compensate for, sometimes.
I think they got the production just about right on that that. This style of music is largely about production. Might as well complain that avatar has too much CGI in it :)
| 444 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:35:07am |
re: #443 Jimmah
Or the Gorillaz are too reliant on cartoons and backing acts >>
| 445 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:36:33am |
re: #443 Jimmah
I think they got the production just about right on that that. This style of music is largely about production. Might as well complain that avatar has too much CGI in it :)
I've actually heard people complain about that, Jimmah. I always say something like, "It was advertised as the most cutting-edge CGI movie of the modern era, dumbass."
| 446 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:38:26am |
re: #445 thedopefishlives
I've actually heard people complain about that, Jimmah. I always say something like, "It was advertised as the most cutting-edge CGI movie of the modern era, dumbass."
I went into seeing avatar thinking I would hate it.. but it was a pretty cool action flick....
| 447 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:38:29am |
re: #445 thedopefishlives
Well that kind of thing doesn't automatically add quality, and producers often act that way. Theres a line between trying to show your vision and just playing around with neat gadgets.
/per avatar, there wasn't any vision there to speak of, but it was absolutely successful in what it was trying to do and how it was trying to project itself.
| 448 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:40:03am |
Son of Hamas founder spied for Israel for more than a decade
The son of one of Hamas’s founding members was a spy in the service of Israel for more than a decade, helping prevent dozens of Islamist suicide bombers from finding their targets, it emerged today.
Codenamed the Green Prince by Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security service, Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of Hamas co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef, supplied key intelligence on an almost daily basis from 1996 onwards and tracked down suicide bombers and their handlers from his father’s organization, the daily Haaretz said.
Information he supplied led to the arrests of some of the most wanted men by Israeli forces, including Marwan Barghouti, a Fatah leader often tipped as a potential president who was convicted of masterminding terrorist attacks, and one of Hamas’ top bomb-makers Abdullah Barghouti, who is no relation of the jailed Fatah chief.
| 449 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:40:08am |
Last week it was reported that the Palestinian security organizations uncovered a Hamas cell's plot to fire rockets from the West Bank. A Palestinian Authority investigation revealed that the cell was headed by a former senior member of Fatah's military wing, whose name was even included in an amnesty deal signed between Israel and the PA about three years ago.
The man was responsible for one of the more famous attacks in the al-Asqa Intifada which left several Israel Defense Forces killed.
| 450 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:43:16am |
re: #433 windsagio
That's exactly it. Theres a difference between using production to enhance the music, and using it to mask a marketable face that can't sing :p
Even John Lennon indulged in a little aural soft focus. He didn't trust his voice, so he always asked George Martin to give him a slight echo-y halo. But that was a technique, not a crutch like it is with other entertainers, especially in this digital age
| 451 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:44:05am |
re: #448 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Son of Hamas founder spied for Israel for more than a decade
They are their own worst enemy.
| 452 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:44:54am |
re: #443 Jimmah
I think they got the production just about right on that that. This style of music is largely about production. Might as well complain that avatar has too much CGI in it :)
Yeah, I guess so. I remember that feedback used to be a bug not a feature, too.
| 453 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:44:59am |
In total, seven of the insurgent group’s 15-member leadership council, thought to be based in Quetta, Pakistan, including the head of military operations, have been apprehended in the past week, according to Pakistani intelligence officials.
Western and Pakistani media had previously reported the arrest of three of the 15, but this is the first confirmation of the wider scale of the Pakistan crackdown on the Taliban leadership, something the US has sought.
“This really hurts the Taliban in the short run,” says Wahid Muzjda, a former Taliban official turned political analyst, based in Kabul. Whether it will have an effect in the long run will depend on what kind of new leaders take the reins, he says.
News of the sweep emerged over the past week, with reports that Pakistani authorities had netted Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the movement’s second in command, as well as Maulavi Abdul Kabir, a prominent commander in charge of insurgent operations in eastern Afghanistan, and Mullah Muhammad Younis.
SNIP
| 454 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:46:41am |
re: #453 MandyManners
Sounds like a good start. They need to pacify that entire tribal region or step out of the way and let the US do the job.
| 455 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:46:43am |
| 456 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:46:59am |
| 457 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:47:36am |
| 458 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:48:28am |
| 459 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:50:04am |
re: #458 windsagio
The same people you are? :p
/from your context I'd say the Palestinians.
Nope, I was talking about Hamas, one terrorist group. And no, they are not like some sci-fi characters, this is real life.
| 460 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:50:30am |
re: #454 Bagua
Sounds like a good start. They need to pacify that entire tribal region or step out of the way and let the US do the job.
Sounds as if the Paks are stepping up to the plate.
| 461 |
swamprat Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:50:52am |
re: #450 The Sanity Inspector
Even John Lennon indulged in a little aural soft focus. He didn't trust his voice, so he always asked George Martin to give him a slight echo-y halo. But that was a technique, not a crutch like it is with other entertainers, especially in this digital age
Bob Dylan masked his vocal inadequacies by using excellent lyrics.
| 462 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:51:01am |
re: #440 windsagio
Sure a good performance is a good performance. You can't take that away from them (nor would I want to).
I just don't like how music works usually.
Then again, I was neck-deep in Seattle grunge when I was in HS, so maybe my view on these things is skewed ;)
I'm a big fan of all that as well btw :) Here's some Glasgow grunge for you :
| 463 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:51:21am |
re: #456 The Sanity Inspector
No doubt he's more of a loose cannon than a criminal, in Fatah's eyes.
I don't know. On the one hand it seems as if Abu Abbas wants to go forward but, the PA charter still calls for the elimination of Israel.
| 464 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:51:46am |
Fresh from TPM, here is the list of the eight hypocritical GOP senators who couldn't bring themselves to vote for cloture on the jobs bill, yet somehow decided to vote for its passage.
Lamar Alexander (R-TN)
Thad Cochran (R-MS)
James Inhofe (R-OK)
George LeMieux (R-FL)
Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)
Roger Wicker (R-MS)And those who were absent Monday but voted yes today:
Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
Richard Burr (R-NC)
Looks like they just couldn't miss an opportunity to claim responsibility for any positive effects the jobs bill will have once they were sure it would pass without them.
| 465 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:51:47am |
| 466 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:52:04am |
re: #460 MandyManners
Sounds as if the Paks are stepping up to the plate.
Better late than never I suppose. Either they step up or out of the way. The present situation is destabilising and intolerable.
| 467 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:52:29am |
re: #461 swamprat
Bob Dylan masked his vocal inadequacies by using excellent lyrics.
He may indeed have "excellent lyrics", but there is NO "masking" that voice!
| 468 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:52:31am |
re: #453 MandyManners
Suddenly, the Pakistanis who long denied the existence of the Quetta Shura, has announced that they've arrested about half of the terrorists who have long been rumored to be members of the Quetta Shura. Most curious.
That's on top of the arrests of Taliban shadow governors and other terrorists inside Afghanistan.
Faster! Please.
| 469 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:52:33am |
| 470 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:53:04am |
re: #465 The Sanity Inspector
Hope some of those guys know where OBL is.
Doubtful. The marriage between Al Qaeda and the Taliban was always one of convenience. I can't imagine AQ would be sharing operational information with them.
| 471 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:53:05am |
re: #459 Bagua
That certainly makes a bit more sense.
/also I think this blog would implode if we couldn't make fantasy/scifi references.
| 472 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:53:09am |
re: #466 Bagua
Better late than never I suppose. Either they step up or out of the way. The present situation is destabilising and intolerable.
The present situation seems to be humming along just fine.
| 475 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:53:53am |
re: #461 swamprat
Bob Dylan masked his vocal inadequacies by using excellent lyrics.
Just imagine how Simon would savage them, if he, Jimi Hendrix, Neil Young, and Rod Stewart showed to sing at an American Idol audition.
| 476 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:54:16am |
re: #468 lawhawk
Suddenly, the Pakistanis who long denied the existence of the Quetta Shura, has announced that they've arrested about half of the terrorists who have long been rumored to be members of the Quetta Shura. Most curious.
That's on top of the arrests of Taliban shadow governors and other terrorists inside Afghanistan.
Faster! Please.
I wonder if they read Baradar their version of Miranda.
| 477 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:54:24am |
re: #462 Jimmah
Good stuff; I'm gonna look them up more >
I actually secretly love the Scottish alternative scene.
| 478 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:54:54am |
| 479 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:55:13am |
re: #474 Bagua
and I do'nt mean to jump on you particularly, I just feel...
I dunno, theres alot of anti-islamic and specifically anti-palestinian bigotry around here lately, it makes me jumpy >>
| 480 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:55:29am |
re: #464 drcordell
Fresh from TPM, here is the list of the eight hypocritical GOP senators who couldn't bring themselves to vote for cloture on the jobs bill, yet somehow decided to vote for its passage.
Looks like they just couldn't miss an opportunity to claim responsibility for any positive effects the jobs bill will have once they were sure it would pass without them.
Looking forward to those projected midterm ads where the Dems will run all the footage of the hypocrite GOPers voting against the stimulus, and then claiming credit in their states for the results.
This is just the tasty side dish. Oh yes.
| 481 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:55:38am |
re: #478 MandyManners
My fingers.
Seriously though, didn't he release another tape that was deemed authentic by the CIA just a few weeks ago?
| 482 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:56:02am |
re: #479 windsagio
and I do'nt mean to jump on you particularly, I just feel...
I dunno, theres alot of anti-islamic and specifically anti-palestinian bigotry around here lately, it makes me jumpy >>
Agreed 100%.
| 483 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:56:27am |
California considering an animal abuser registry, similar to the sex offender registry
The proposal, made in a bill introduced Friday by the State Senate’s majority leader, Dean Florez, would be the first of its kind in the country and is just the latest law geared toward animal rights in a state that has recently given new protections to chickens, pigs and cattle.
| 484 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:57:10am |
re: #479 windsagio
It's not bigotry, its more akin to the shift in a jurors mindset after the conviction. You saw, you heard, you decided. If the Palestinian did not have such a terrible record of conduct over the decades (see Jordan) it would be more akin to bigotry.
| 485 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:57:12am |
re: #472 MandyManners
The present situation seems to be humming along just fine.
Agreed. Seven years late, but making good progress now. The Pakistanis have an opportunity now to reclaim their country from the terrorists and restore their democracy. Half measures won't cut it.
| 486 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:57:47am |
re: #481 drcordell
They weasel word that, and why no video at all? He really might be dead.
| 487 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:57:48am |
re: #483 cliffster
California considering an animal abuser registry, similar to the sex offender registry
I've heard of worse ideas. Animal abuse is a very telling indicator of future potential for violence against humans.
| 489 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:58:42am |
re: #479 windsagio
and I do'nt mean to jump on you particularly, I just feel...
I dunno, theres alot of anti-islamic and specifically anti-palestinian bigotry around here lately, it makes me jumpy >>
Drives me crazy. I don't like to see anyone picking on anyone. But I get jumped on when I point that out. It seems that there are level of acceptable bigotry.
And no, I don't need an answer, I am simply making an observation, it doesn't matter what kind of answer you want to give me, you are not going to make me more or less sensitive to what I consider unacceptable.
| 490 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:58:52am |
re: #481 drcordell
Seriously though, didn't he release another tape that was deemed authentic by the CIA just a few weeks ago?
Beats me.
| 491 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:59:13am |
re: #484 Rightwingconspirator
*rhetoric on*
Is it fair to judge people as a race?
*rhetoric off*
/also there are some particular examples I could bring up but calling specific people out on that kind of thing is just begging for a fight.
| 492 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:59:34am |
re: #485 Bagua
Agreed. Seven years late, but making good progress now. The Pakistanis have an opportunity now to reclaim their country from the terrorists and restore their democracy. Half measures won't cut it.
They're also trying to talk with India again.
| 493 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:59:47am |
re: #467 sattv4u2
He may indeed have "excellent lyrics", but there is NO "masking" that voice!
Remember at Bill Clinton's inauguration, when Dylan sang? He was so incomprehensible that the interpreter for the deaf had to simply sign "singing and music" at times.
| 494 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:59:51am |
re: #486 Rightwingconspirator
They weasel word that, and why no video at all? He really might be dead.
I don't disagree with you, but I'd like to have more evidence than that. The absence of proof he's alive doesn't prove he's dead. If I had to wager I'd say he's still alive but just doesn't look very good, hence the lack of video.
| 495 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 8:59:58am |
re: #479 windsagio
and I do'nt mean to jump on you particularly, I just feel...
I dunno, theres alot of anti-islamic and specifically anti-palestinian bigotry around here lately, it makes me jumpy >>
Don't make that mistake windsagio, the sentiment is anti-terrorist, not anti any people. This is an enemy that targets children and innocents with suicide bombings, corrupts, robs and oppresses their own people in the name of hatred and death. They are not some sort of discriminated against minority.
| 496 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:00:07am |
re: #487 drcordell
I've heard of worse ideas. Animal abuse is a very telling indicator of future potential for violence against humans.
Animal abuse is a very telling indicator of animal abuse, too.
| 497 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:01:02am |
re: #493 The Sanity Inspector
Remember at Bill Clinton's inauguration, when Dylan sang? He was so incomprehensible that the interpreter for the deaf had to simply sign "singing and music" at times.
Oh, that's hilarious!
| 499 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:03:03am |
re: #498 Bagua
lets not quibble semantics :p You know what I mean; a 'labeled group of people'.
| 500 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:03:12am |
re: #495 Bagua
Don't make that mistake windsagio, the sentiment is anti-terrorist, not anti any people. This is an enemy that targets children and innocents with suicide bombings, corrupts, robs and oppresses their own people in the name of hatred and death. They are not some sort of discriminated against minority.
I've heard some pretty hostile things specifically about Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, etc. here from time to time. It's not enough to say it's just about being 'anti-terrorist', we need to watch what comes out of our mouths and make sure it stays that way.
| 501 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:03:46am |
| 502 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:03:48am |
re: #491 windsagio
*rhetoric on*
Is it fair to judge people as a race?
*rhetoric off*
/also there are some particular examples I could bring up but calling specific people out on that kind of thing is just begging for a fight.
Hamas is a race?
/who knew
| 503 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:03:57am |
re: #487 drcordell
I've heard of worse ideas. Animal abuse is a very telling indicator of future potential for violence against humans.
Some of those people belong on such a registrar. Take that teenager (please do) who was torturing and murdering neighbourhood cats in Miami/Dade last year (or 2 years ago).
The crazy (usually old) person hoarding stray animals and not properly caring for all 80 of them (more of a neglect situation) does not-- but I'm cool with such a person getting the help he needs and having someone check on him and the animals every week.
| 504 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:04:29am |
re: #407 thedopefishlives
I'm guilty of doing that sort of thing in the workplace as well.
Once set a co-worker's default "show file" command to exclude all files names. (So any request would come back "No files found.") She came back from lunch and did a directory command on a major production file data folder... and got "No files found" as a result. She self-described the event as "my asshole puckered when I saw that".
She twigged onto what had happened fairly quickly, and was not *that* upset with me. She was also much more careful after that about leaving her workstation logged on and unattended for extended periods of time.
| 505 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:04:37am |
re: #495 Bagua
Don't make that mistake windsagio, the sentiment is anti-terrorist, not anti any people. This is an enemy that targets children and innocents with suicide bombings, corrupts, robs and oppresses their own people in the name of hatred and death. They are not some sort of discriminated against minority.
Right. Except you seem to be lumping entire nationalities into your definition of terrorist. There are terrorists who come from every race religion and nation. 9/11 hijackers from Saudi Arabia, BallBomber from Nigeria, Timothy McVeigh from the USA, Unabomber from the USA, Anthrax mailer from the USA, IRS bomber from the USA, IRA terrorists from Northern Ireland. The list goes on and on and on.
| 506 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:04:56am |
re: #477 windsagio
Good stuff; I'm gonna look them up more >
I actually secretly love the Scottish alternative scene.
As did Nirvana! Here they are namechecking Edinburgh's "The Vaselines" as "The best band in the world, simply put" :)
| 507 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:04:57am |
re: #499 windsagio
lets not quibble semantics :p You know what I mean; a 'labeled group of people'.
Hamas is a terrorist 'group of people'. That is the most accurate label for them. If they are being 'discriminated' against it is because they are savage terrorists.
| 508 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:05:10am |
re: #500 SanFranciscoZionist
I've heard some pretty hostile things specifically about Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, etc. here from time to time. It's not enough to say it's just about being 'anti-terrorist', we need to watch what comes out of our mouths and make sure it stays that way.
You are correct.
However, when a person talking about Hamas and its activities gets called out for being "racist", there's something just not right.
| 510 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:06:00am |
re: #493 The Sanity Inspector
Remember at Bill Clinton's inauguration, when Dylan sang? He was so incomprehensible that the interpreter for the deaf had to simply sign "singing and music" at times.
He sounded a lot better in the 60s. He even sounded pretty good in the mid 80s when I saw him. Dylan, Tom Petty and The Grateful Dead. THAT was a concert!
| 511 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:06:00am |
| 512 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:06:04am |
re: #507 Bagua
Hamas is a terrorist 'group of people'. That is the most accurate label for them. If they are being 'discriminated' against it is because they are savage terrorists.
Hamas yes. Palestinians no. There is a very big distinction there.
| 513 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:06:08am |
re: #484 Rightwingconspirator
It's not bigotry, its more akin to the shift in a jurors mindset after the conviction. You saw, you heard, you decided. If the Palestinian did not have such a terrible record of conduct over the decades (see Jordan) it would be more akin to bigotry.
When a group of people have been murdering Jews and Americans for the past half-century, glorying in it, and passing the same hate on to their children generation after generation, it's hard for most of us to get all moist and sniffly when their comeuppance arrives.
| 514 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:06:28am |
re: #493 The Sanity Inspector
Remember at Bill Clinton's inauguration, when Dylan sang? He was so incomprehensible that the interpreter for the deaf had to simply sign "singing and music" at times.
Heard this on the radio the other day and thought "that's right you used to be able to understand Dylan".
| 515 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:06:53am |
re: #486 Rightwingconspirator
They weasel word that, and why no video at all? He really might be dead.
There is no reason to think he is dead, as the BBC 'Conspiracy Files' team demonstrates in this programme (its a playlist - click 'play all on the right to watch all the vids in sequence) :
| 516 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:07:07am |
re: #500 SanFranciscoZionist
I've heard some pretty hostile things specifically about Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, etc. here from time to time. It's not enough to say it's just about being 'anti-terrorist', we need to watch what comes out of our mouths and make sure it stays that way.
Of course, from time to time we have heard all sorts of things here. But right now we are talking about a terrorist group, Hamas, and it is hardly necessary to make a PC disclaimer everytime they are mentioned.
| 517 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:08:00am |
re: #508 reine.de.tout
You are correct.
However, when a person talking about Hamas and its activities gets called out for being "racist", there's something just not right.
Fair enough, but I think often that's because we're losing the thread of conversation.
| 518 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:08:48am |
re: #501 SanFranciscoZionist
Nobody is a race.
In that case, there can be no such thing as racism. Do you believe that?
| 519 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:09:00am |
re: #513 The Sanity Inspector
When a group of people have been murdering
JewsProtestants andAmericansthe English for the past half-century, glorying in it, and passing the same hate on to their children generation after generation, it's hard for most of us to get all moist and sniffly when their comeuppance arrives.
Huh, I guess we're talking about the IRA and the Real IRA now.
How's that feel?
Different? Probably.
You should think about 'why'.
| 520 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:09:32am |
re: #511 windsagio
re: #502 reine.de.tout
In my post I mentioned Palestinians and Islam in general, not Hamas.
/I admit tho' Islam is not a race.
You began by responding to a post by someone else, who was talking about Hamas, and made that clear. The next thing I saw was you talking about bigotry and racism.
| 521 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:10:01am |
re: #509 pederS
Well, maybe islam should make you a little jumpy...
The Appeal of Islam - Islamism is a Reaction to Multiculturalism
Just saying
Come to me with something better than an essay by a guy who calls himself 'Sultan Knish' if you're going to make sweeping statements.
| 522 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:10:04am |
re: #517 SanFranciscoZionist
Fair enough, but I think often that's because we're losing the thread of conversation.
Could be.
| 523 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:10:53am |
re: #520 reine.de.tout
I don't see that Windsagio did say racism.
| 524 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:10:58am |
re: #505 drcordell
Right. Except you seem to be lumping entire nationalities into your definition of terrorist. There are terrorists who come from every race religion and nation. 9/11 hijackers from Saudi Arabia, BallBomber from Nigeria, Timothy McVeigh from the USA, Unabomber from the USA, Anthrax mailer from the USA, IRS bomber from the USA, IRA terrorists from Northern Ireland. The list goes on and on and on.
I am? On the contrary you are imagining that. I never mentioned any of those people, I'm talking about Hamas. Yes, Hamas are terrorists. The Unibomber? Whatever are you on about?
| 525 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:11:12am |
re: #486 Rightwingconspirator
They weasel word that, and why no video at all? He really might be dead.
If he is still alive, after living on the run in the mountains all these years with reported kidney and othre medical issues, he probably hasn't aged too well, looks like shit. Not a real moral booster for the 'troops"
| 526 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:11:12am |
OK, I give. This is pretty clearly one of those subjects people just aren't willing to talk (or think) about.
| 527 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:11:18am |
re: #520 reine.de.tout
You began by responding to a post by someone else, who was talking about Hamas, and made that clear. The next thing I saw was you talking about bigotry and racism.
It's called deflection. Happens all the time. Stop complaining :)
| 528 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:11:23am |
| 529 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:12:05am |
re: #523 Obdicut
I don't see that Windsagio did say racism.
Then, I'm not sure what this was about.
re: #491 windsagio
*rhetoric on*
Is it fair to judge people as a race?
*rhetoric off*
/also there are some particular examples I could bring up but calling specific people out on that kind of thing is just begging for a fight.
| 530 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:12:29am |
re: #526 windsagio
OK, I give. This is pretty clearly one of those subjects people just aren't willing to talk (or think) about.
You can do it somewhat more easily here later in the day. These are the Bitching Hours on LGF. ;)
| 531 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:12:32am |
re: #503 iceweasel
Some of those people belong on such a registrar. Take that teenager (please do) who was torturing and murdering neighbourhood cats in Miami/Dade last year (or 2 years ago).
The crazy (usually old) person hoarding stray animals and not properly caring for all 80 of them (more of a neglect situation) does not-- but I'm cool with such a person getting the help he needs and having someone check on him and the animals every week.
I don't think the hoarders belong on the list either. The guy with the dog chained in the back yard no matter the weather, not feeding it regularly - put him on the list.
| 532 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:13:10am |
re: #526 windsagio
OK, I give. This is pretty clearly one of those subjects people just aren't willing to talk (or think) about.
No, you're not willing to talk or think about this, are you?
People have very clearly stated they are talking about terrorists, terrorism, and Hamas.
And you refuse to understand the distinction.
| 533 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:13:23am |
re: #483 cliffster
California considering an animal abuser registry, similar to the sex offender registry
And now wait for all the special multi-culti waivers to be tacked on. They'll have to grant permission for illegals to slaughter goats in their backyards, permission for santeria practitioners to sacrifice chickens, etc. But you, you earth-defiling First Worlder, that Big Mac in your greasy mitts makes you an accessory to mass animal murder!
| 534 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:15:36am |
re: #533 The Sanity Inspector
I have never met anyone that was in favor of allowing backyard slaughter but against chicken farming. Have you?
| 535 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:15:55am |
re: #526 windsagio
OK, I give. This is pretty clearly one of those subjects people just aren't willing to talk (or think) about.
I will. I think it is wrong to classify any group of people as terrorist, whether it be an ethnic group or a group of people living in a certain country or under a certain government.
A group like Hamas, and it's members, who have joined that group, have stated purposes, and some of those state purposes motivate terrorism.
The Irish are not terrorists, the IRA are a group of people (ethnic identity doesn't matter) who have committed terrorism.
Islam and/or Muslims are not a group of terrorists. There are Muslims that are terrorists.
And on and on...
| 536 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:16:13am |
Btw - if Bin Laden is alive - and he probably is - the CIA audio dept is pretty good at it's job from what I've heard - it would be good from his point of view if we all thought he was dead. Suit him right down to the ground, it would.
| 537 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:16:15am |
Only in bizarro world are multibillion dollar measures considered puny. House Democrats might not go along with a Senate version that is a fraction of the size of the $174 billion plan that passed the House in December.
The bill up for a vote Wednesday would exempt businesses hiring the unemployed from the 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax through December and give them an additional $1,000 credit if new workers stay on the job a full year. It would also extend federal highway programs through the end of the year and make a $20 billion cash deposit into the highway trust fund to make up for shortfalls from lower-than-anticipated gasoline tax revenues.The measure cleared a key hurdle Monday when the Senate's newest Republican, Scott Brown of Massachusetts, and four other Republicans broke party ranks to defeat a filibuster. Republican leaders said Reid had used strong-arm tactics in bringing the measure to the floor.
Reid's $35 billion proposal — blending $15 billion in tax cuts and subsidies for infrastructure bonds issued by local governments with the $20 billion in highway money — is a far smaller measure than the $862 billion economic stimulus bill enacted a year ago.
House Democrats passed a far larger $174 billion jobs measure in December and many consider the pending Senate measure too puny. But they may simply adopt the Senate measure in order to get the win.
Economists believe that the Senate bill might create 250,000 jobs.
Or not. After all, the CBO claimed that the stimulus package as spent to date created between 1 million and 2.1 million jobs - even though the number out of work soared in the same period (but that figure was based on an economic model purporting that the stimulus goosed the economy by 1-3.5 percentage points.
| 538 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:16:39am |
Years ago I went to a show on the Paul Simon/Bob Dylan tour. Paul Simon was up first. He has a giant band, all fantastic. 3 percussionists for crying out loud. Amazing show, simply amazing. Then comes Bob. He can't sing, can't play guitar, can't play harmonica. He sucks ass. And yet, the auditorium was spellbound for the whole time he played. He is a legend.
| 539 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:16:48am |
re: #532 reine.de.tout
I perfectly understand the distinction.
But fine, if you want to be that way...
Given their love of conspiracy and their inherent paranoia, can you imagine the disruption in the ranks?
That is a statement that strongly speaks of prejudice.
| 540 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:17:34am |
re: #512 drcordell
Hamas yes. Palestinians no. There is a very big distinction there.
Not so big as you may imagine. After a long career of murder and terror, Hamas was voted into office by the Palestinians, after Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip. They are therefore complicit in Hamas' actions since then.
| 541 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:17:48am |
re: #512 drcordell
Hamas yes. Palestinians no. There is a very big distinction there.
That is the distinction I made, you are the one making broad generalisations. Beyond that, as people, to the extent the so called palestinians are a unique group, they certainly have a strong propensity towards terrorism, form, join and even vote for terrorists groups to represent them and glorify terrorists as cultural heroes.
It is certainly true that they have a culture that is in favour of terrorism and breeds and encourages terrorism. If they want to be known for something else, they will have to reform their societies and pursue other activities.
| 542 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:18:07am |
re: #518 Bagua
In that case, there can be no such thing as racism. Do you believe that?
Racial discrimination is real, but it's based on culture, skin color, a whole host of factors. Race is a social construct, its biological factors are largely irrelevent to to bigotry.
Racism gets directed at all kinds of groups that 'aren't a race'.
| 543 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:18:16am |
OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!
Originally at Drudge, New Missile Defense Agency Logo Causes Online Commotion..., but freepers have picked up the theme and run with it (as usual).
Take a look at Drudge - here is another Obama inspired logo....
Well, gee, it's red, white, and blue; has a star on it, and the curved portion is suggestive of an Islamic crescent if you look hard enough. What could it be but a paen to the One?
///
| 544 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:18:25am |
re: #532 reine.de.tout
In attempting to discuss Palestine and Israel here, I've been called a tool of the Palestinian Authority, an abbetor of terrorism, and a fellow traveler of Hamas. I've had people lie directly about what I said, as well. There is lots of overblown rhetoric here, but happily it tends to come from a small group of people.
I don't discuss Israel and Palestine on here any more. It's too volatile a topic. I don't have time to parse every one of my comments word by word to make sure it won't be seized upon by someone in an attack against me.
I do think that people are far too willing here to attack each other on matters of foreign policy in which none of us are experts.
| 545 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:19:08am |
re: #531 cliffster
I don't think the hoarders belong on the list either. The guy with the dog chained in the back yard no matter the weather, not feeding it regularly - put him on the list.
Agreed. There is a big difference between those people who abuse animals, and those who can't properly care for them but want to.
The bastard who buys a 'mean' dog, beats it, starves it, chains it, is an abuser.
The person who takes in every stray and has over 50 cats in a very bad living situation, and who doesn't even take care of himself properly, needs help - and probably supervision after. Those folks shouldn't wind up on a list of 'animal abusers'.
| 546 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:19:35am |
re: #543 shiplord kirel
A much more fundamental question - how much money was spent on making an entirely new logo when the old one sufficed? Was there a problem with the old logo that it needed to be replaced in the first place? Could that money have gone to some better purpose?
| 547 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:20:31am |
re: #520 reine.de.tout
You began by responding to a post by someone else, who was talking about Hamas, and made that clear. The next thing I saw was you talking about bigotry and racism.
It's not bigotry, its more akin to the shift in a jurors mindset after the conviction. You saw, you heard, you decided. If the Palestinian did not have such a terrible record of conduct over the decades (see Jordan) it would be more akin to bigotry.
This is open to some interpretation. Just a reminder to keep very clear, folks.
| 548 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:21:24am |
re: #535 Walter L. Newton
Walter
Sending you an e-mail now with a link to openings in Colorado in my company
| 549 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:21:53am |
re: #546 lawhawk
A much more fundamental question - how much money was spent on making an entirely new logo when the old one sufficed? Was there a problem with the old logo that it needed to be replaced in the first place? Could that money have gone to some better purpose?
I wonder what Umberto Eco would say about that logo?
| 550 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:21:59am |
re: #544 Obdicut
In attempting to discuss Palestine and Israel here, I've been called a tool of the Palestinian Authority, an abbetor of terrorism, and a fellow traveler of Hamas. I've had people lie directly about what I said, as well. There is lots of overblown rhetoric here, but happily it tends to come from a small group of people.
I don't discuss Israel and Palestine on here any more. It's too volatile a topic. I don't have time to parse every one of my comments word by word to make sure it won't be seized upon by someone in an attack against me.
I do think that people are far too willing here to attack each other on matters of foreign policy in which none of us are experts.
And from my viewpoint, too many are willing to accuse others here of bigotry and racism at the drop of a hat.
| 551 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:22:09am |
re: #543 shiplord kirel
Anything with a curve in it is now a reference to either Obama or Islam or both. Didn't you hear?
| 552 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:22:54am |
re: #548 sattv4u2
Walter
Sending you an e-mail now with a link to openings in Colorado in my company
I've always wanted to work for an escort agency... wheee...
| 553 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:23:25am |
re: #537 lawhawk
Only in bizarro world are multibillion dollar measures considered puny. House Democrats might not go along with a Senate version that is a fraction of the size of the $174 billion plan that passed the House in December.
They are wrong.
I think Reid was right to split that bill into smaller ones.
| 554 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:23:33am |
re: #552 Walter L. Newton
I've always wanted to work for an escort agency... wheee...
Pays great ,, and the "positions" are interesting!
| 555 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:23:49am |
re: #540 The Sanity Inspector
All I'm gonna say to that is when it comes to third-world politics, Hamas knows how to play the game. They actually attempted to provide social services in order to get their votes. Once they got that power, they were and are currently free to do whatever they want in that part of the Territories.
| 556 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:24:12am |
re: #550 reine.de.tout
And from my viewpoint, too many are willing to accuse others here of bigotry and racism at the drop of a hat.
Rubbish. You claimed yesterday that everyone was being accused of ODS at the drop of a hat.
Rubbish then, rubbish now.
But people WILL accuse others here of 'supporting terrorists' or 'hating the US military' or being a 'Hamas supporter' (!!) in a heartbeat.
| 557 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:24:23am |
re: #550 reine.de.tout
And from my viewpoint, too many are willing to accuse others here of bigotry and racism at the drop of a hat.
Indeed. No names named, but the moniker "racist" or, "disgusting racist" or anything along those lines should be used carefully.
| 558 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:24:24am |
re: #547 SanFranciscoZionist
This is open to some interpretation. Just a reminder to keep very clear, folks.
And having reminded everyone to keep very clear, I've confounded the formatting to confuse the quote from Reine and a totally different quote from RightwingC, many posts above. Way to go, SFZ!
| 559 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:25:00am |
re: #553 webevintage
Yet, by doing so Reid manages to obfuscate the true cost of the bills and the CBO scoring becomes more difficult in the process.
| 560 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:25:11am |
re: #551 Obdicut
Anything with a curve in it is now a reference to either Obama or Islam or both. Didn't you hear?
I thought it was a reference to Sophia Loren.
| 562 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:25:33am |
re: #558 SanFranciscoZionist
And having reminded everyone to keep very clear, I've confounded the formatting to confuse the quote from Reine and a totally different quote from RightwingC, many posts above. Way to go, SFZ!
still rattled from the Animal House study group yesterday!?!?
/
| 563 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:25:57am |
re: #550 reine.de.tout
Sure. That's what I mean by volatile. It's not in the least bit one-sided. It's not even two-sided.
| 564 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:26:02am |
re: #542 SanFranciscoZionist
Racial discrimination is real, but it's based on culture, skin color, a whole host of factors. Race is a social construct, its biological factors are largely irrelevent to to bigotry.
Racism gets directed at all kinds of groups that 'aren't a race'.
It's a complicated subject, but yes I agree it is not a biological identity, it is a social construct and minor differences of appearance. We are all against racism.
Opposing the terrorists and observing their dysfunctional societies, hatreds and paranoid beliefs rampant in their communities which breed the violence is not racism. It is criticism to be certain, but not racism.
| 565 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:26:20am |
re: #491 windsagio
I thought they were a nation rather than a race like African American. If not my bad because that is my context in every post I ever made about them. So I generalize on their conduct as a nation of people. And I am unimpressed with their militancy, their leadership, and hair trigger willingness to fire rockets in Israel.
| 566 |
Soap_Man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:26:31am |
| 567 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:26:42am |
Rachel Corrie's family is suing Israel:
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
| 568 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:27:11am |
re: #494 drcordell
That's a sensible reason. They can't exactly fix him up like a TV News anchor.
| 569 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:27:14am |
re: #551 Obdicut
Anything with a curve in it is now a reference to either Obama or Islam or both. Didn't you hear?
It's gotten like those "Hollywood Illuminati Exposed" videos on youtube where you are supposed to be aghast with New World Order inspired horror at the sighting of a triangle or a star in a Spielberg movie.
| 570 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:27:59am |
re: #566 Soap_Man
Morning all.
Here's some good news, I suppose:
I mentioned a few months ago that would happen. Easy call!
Most big businesses are already down to skeleton crew/ bare bone staffing
There's nothing left TO lay off
| 571 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:28:00am |
re: #565 Rightwingconspirator
seriously, I'm done. We can argue about it if things slow down this evening :p
| 572 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:28:01am |
re: #555 laZardo
All I'm gonna say to that is when it comes to third-world politics, Hamas knows how to play the game. They actually attempted to provide social services in order to get their votes. Once they got that power, they were and are currently free to do whatever they want in that part of the Territories.
Not true - they ran on grounds that they weren't going to stand for the corruption that plagued the PA under Arafat. They won a majority in Gaza; lost in the West Bank. Yet, as soon as they did win, they started engaging in the very corrupt activities they claimed to rail against when Fatah was doing it.
If they've managed to engage in providing social services, it's been by accident - eliminating rivals has cut down on "crime". Smuggling is an accepted part of Hamas revenue generation, as is all manner of black market sales (on which Hamas takes a cut).
Hamas, however, does know how to manipulate the media to its own ends - and on that point, they are masterful. That helps them in the diplomatic war against Israel and undermines Israel's legitimate issues with the Palestinians.
| 573 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:28:12am |
re: #567 Mad Al-Jaffee
Rachel Corrie's family is suing Israel:
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
Oh, goody. Maybe now all the facts will come out in the case, and all the people who abused her death for the cause of the people commonly referred to as Palestinians will STFD and STFU.
| 574 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:28:14am |
re: #556 iceweasel
Rubbish. You claimed yesterday that everyone was being accused of ODS at the drop of a hat.
Rubbish then, rubbish now.
But people WILL accuse others here of 'supporting terrorists' or 'hating the US military' or being a 'Hamas supporter' (!!) in a heartbeat.
No.
I agreed with Locker's point that there would be more participation if there was less name calling.
What I said yesterday was that some folks were claiming ODS and then leaving the thread, rather than sticking around and making a counter argument. I stated I wished they would stay around and make their points, I would like to hear them.
re: #224 LockerYou'd probably see a lot more participation from independents and even lefties if what we being criticized were policy issues and such. The overwhelming tone of Obama criticism on here, though, seems to be about him being a narcissist or being elite and garbage like that.
There are a number of Obama decisions/issues on which I do not agree or approve of but the last thing I'm going to do is jump on the bandwagon when an overwhelming tone of ODS appears in a comment.
I agree.
I'm just saying it's hard to get a discussion going when the first counter-comment is "they don't like him because he's black", instead of simply stating a counter argument. WindUpBird, after throwing out a bunch of insults, left the thread last night, rather than stay and present his reasons why he thought the commenter was wrong. I would have appreciated hearing what he had to say.
| 575 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:28:31am |
re: #551 Obdicut
Anything with a curve in it is now a reference to either Obama or Islam or both. Didn't you hear?
I thought it might suggest the parabolic trajectories of two missiles meeting at an interception point, but I am just a rocket guy and therefore probably under the influence of evil scientists and a little weird to start with.
| 577 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:29:49am |
re: #575 shiplord kirel
There you go, attempting to use context to derive meaning instead of creating it up out of whole cloth from random paranoid demons running around in your head. Shame on you!
| 578 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:29:53am |
re: #551 Obdicut
Anything with a curve in it is now a reference to either Obama or Islam or both. Didn't you hear?
Remember this? I still can't decide if the architect was genuinely clueless or just engaging in some sneaky avant garde epater les bourgeoius.
| 579 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:29:59am |
re: #574 reine.de.tout
I know. You pretended that the ODS in that thread was so hard to find, and that if only WindUpBird stayed around to explain it, again, you might have found it.
Rubbish.
| 580 |
Soap_Man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:30:50am |
re: #570 sattv4u2
I mentioned a few months ago that would happen. Easy call!
Most big businesses are already down to skeleton crew/ bare bone staffing
There's nothing left TO lay off
Very true. I work for a large company and my division is understaffed. I wouldn't say "bare-bones" as they could probably get away with dropping a few people if they absolutely had to.
But I'm confident they won't. We are the most profitable division in the company. I feel like my job is safe.
| 581 |
laZardo Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:31:10am |
Also, since we're still talking about racism, enjoy the Racial Slur Database.
| 582 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:31:34am |
re: #556 iceweasel
Rubbish. You claimed yesterday that everyone was being accused of ODS at the drop of a hat.
Rubbish then, rubbish now.
But people WILL accuse others here of 'supporting terrorists' or 'hating the US military' or being a 'Hamas supporter' (!!) in a heartbeat.
Granted, I'm not on all day and with my schedule usually only early. But I've never seen a regular poster here making a statement that another was 'supporting terrorist' or accusing someone of being a "Hamas supporter'.
Just my view from the knothole in the fence...
| 583 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:32:10am |
re: #566 Soap_Man
Word hasn't gotten to ABC News, which is laying off 20% of its workforce. And January mass layoffs increased over December over concerns on weak manufacturing. There were 1,765 mass layoffs in January (defined as any layoff involving 50 or more workers).
| 584 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:32:15am |
re: #579 iceweasel
I know. You pretended that the ODS in that thread was so hard to find, and that if only WindUpBird stayed around to explain it, again, you might have found it.
Rubbish.
Quote where I indicated the ODS was impossible to find.
I did not.
But the ODS is not going to disappear because someone calls another person a name.
It may disappear if the person makes a rational and sensible counter argument rather than tossing out the "racist" "ODS" monikers.
| 585 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:32:40am |
re: #580 Soap_Man
Very true. I work for a large company and my division is understaffed. I wouldn't say "bare-bones" as they could probably get away with dropping a few people if they absolutely had to.
But I'm confident they won't. We are the most profitable division in the company. I feel like my job is safe.
Same here
We used to have 3 engineers and 8 technicians for a facility thats (FCC mandated) staffed 24/7
Today ,,, 1 engineer and 5 techs
| 586 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:32:57am |
re: #581 laZardo
Also, since we're still talking about racism, enjoy the Racial Slur Database.
I don't want to click that. I know where you hang out. :(
(4chan)
BTW, I invoked your name earlier when someone tried to claim "Anonymous" meant 'just a bunch of ordinary citizens protesting!'
Haw.
| 587 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:33:24am |
re: #582 Ericus58
I've had it happen to me. So yes, it really does happen.
| 588 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:33:24am |
| 589 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:33:36am |
re: #582 Ericus58
Granted, I'm not on all day and with my schedule usually only early. But I've never seen a regular poster here making a statement that another was 'supporting terrorist' or accusing someone of being a "Hamas supporter'.
Just my view from the knothole in the fence...
Regardless of whether you've seen it or not, it happens.
| 590 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:33:50am |
re: #585 sattv4u2
Got it... will check it out... thanks... (Have you tried that Helga yet?)
| 591 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:34:29am |
re: #584 reine.de.tout
You were busy complaining that people were being unfairly accused of ODS here, just like you're now complaining that 'people' immediately call 'racism' or 'bigotry'.
Not so.
| 592 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:35:41am |
re: #584 reine.de.tout
Quote where I indicated the ODS was impossible to find.
I did not.
But the ODS is not going to disappear because someone calls another person a name.
It may disappear if the person makes a rational and sensible counter argument rather than tossing out the "racist" "ODS" monikers.
It is possible, after all, to disagree with practically everything Obama says without having ODS.
| 593 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:35:51am |
re: #584 reine.de.tout
Quote where I indicated the ODS was impossible to find.
I did not.
But the ODS is not going to disappear because someone calls another person a name.
It may disappear if the person makes a rational and sensible counter argument rather than tossing out the "racist" "ODS" monikers.
Oh right, so you are concerned with 'getting it to disappear'. Not denying it, as seemed very much the case. Yeah, sure.
| 594 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:36:03am |
You see, they are promoting Obama too!
///
| 595 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:36:29am |
re: #235 sandbox
That's indeed Gerrald Nadler's district. He, along with Shelly Silver (NYS Assembly Speaker and rep from Lower Manhattan) have called on the trial being held elsewhere.
| 596 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:36:46am |
re: #594 shiplord kirel
Looks more like they're promoting the Cylons, to me.
| 597 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:36:57am |
re: #592 cliffster
It is possible, after all, to disagree with practically everything Obama says without having ODS.
Really?
| 598 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:37:11am |
re: #590 Walter L. Newton
Got it... will check it out... thanks... (Have you tried that Helga yet?)
The lady ,,, or the position !?!?!?
| 599 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:37:17am |
re: #559 lawhawk
Yet, by doing so Reid manages to obfuscate the true cost of the bills and the CBO scoring becomes more difficult in the process.
Actually I disagree (I know, you are shocked) and think that cutting it into smaller parcels allows one to see how much each bill costs and throws out the window some of the bloat that was added in the Finance Comm.
That way Republicans can be seen voting NO for small business tax cuts then extentions on both unemployment and COBRA then on infrastructure investments then on grants and tax credits to improve energy efficiency (who awesome would a nice big tax credit to put solar panels on your house be?). Here is a list of the various bills for anyone interested:
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
| 600 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:37:43am |
re: #591 iceweasel
You were busy complaining that people were being unfairly accused of ODS here, just like you're now complaining that 'people' immediately call 'racism' or 'bigotry'.
Not so.
What you characterize as complaining, I saw as a discussion.
There was nothing wah-wah-wah in any of my comments.
I do wish WindUpBird had stuck around, as I said, I would have liked to hear might have had to say.
I think that's perfectly reasonable.
| 601 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:37:58am |
re: #592 cliffster
It is possible, after all, to disagree with practically everything Obama says without having ODS.
It most certainly is, and this is the point that the 'liberals' here have made over, and over, and over again.
| 602 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:38:10am |
re: #592 cliffster
It is possible, after all, to disagree with practically everything Obama says without having ODS.
I think disagreeing with EVERYTHING Obama has to say is a clear cut sign of ODS, actually.
| 603 |
Soap_Man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:38:12am |
re: #585 sattv4u2
Same here
We used to have 3 engineers and 8 technicians for a facility thats (FCC mandated) staffed 24/7
Today ,,, 1 engineer and 5 techs
My former job is like that. In the small satellite office I worked in, there were 9 full-time employees and 1 part-timer when I was hired (this was early 2006). Last I heard there are now 3 full-timers and 1 part-timer. Crazy.
| 604 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:38:45am |
Another freeper string on the latest outrageous outrage, loud and direct and with even better graphics:
MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY CHANGES LOGO TO LOOK MORE LIKE OBAMA LOGO
| 605 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:38:52am |
re: #268 garhighway
You can't blame that bankruptcy bill on the Republicans alone. It passed with big numbers in both houses. Lots of "D"'s voted "aye".
When the banks decide they really want something, they pay real money and they get it done.
There are a few lobbies that are very difficult to beat when they are highly motivated: banks, realtors, pharma, health care and the NRA.
re: #273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not Unions, tho. Interesting omission.
re: #276 garhighway
They have a fair amount of money, but for whatever reason they don't seem to get anything substantial done with it. They wanted one thing from this Congress (card check) and haven't gotten it. So on my list of lobbies that get what they want, they don't make the cut.
re: #420 garhighway
You lie.
no I do not...list of lobbies, called on it, said union lobbies do not get things done.
Next time you call me a liar, get your facts right, Jackass.
| 606 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:39:04am |
re: #595 lawhawk
That's indeed Gerrald Nadler's district. He, along with Shelly Silver (NYS Assembly Speaker and rep from Lower Manhattan) have called on the trial being held elsewhere.
Considering that his Wiki page states that he's voted 97.5 per cent of the time with his party, that's significant.
| 607 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:39:34am |
re: #602 Jimmah
I think disagreeing with EVERYTHING Obama has to say is a clear cut sign of ODS, actually.
Well, it depends. You might come close on policy.
| 608 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:39:42am |
re: #602 Jimmah
I think disagreeing with EVERYTHING Obama has to say is a clear cut sign of ODS, actually.
EVERYTHING, yes.
Especially when the ignorami disagree with Obama for issues on which they looooved identical Bush decisions.
| 609 |
lawhawk Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:39:56am |
re: #599 webevintage
I actually agree with that - it depends on what you want to get out of the bill. From a scoring perspective, it could be more difficult to score and keep tabs on the spending. From a policy perspective, it actually gives the GOPers more opportunity to engage in bipartisan agreement on jobs bills (or hold 'em out as opponents to sensible legislation).
| 610 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:39:56am |
re: #601 iceweasel
I find the real hint for ODS is that certain emotional force they get behind their denouncements.
| 611 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:40:03am |
So, if even criticism of the Hamas terrorists is now forbidden because it could discriminate against them, who are we allowed to find fault with? Apparently each other.
For the record: people who call fellow posters racist and people who call fellow posters terrorist sympathisers or tools are just two examples of the same antisocial behaviour.
| 612 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:40:43am |
re: #611 Bagua
dude, your sphincter is twisted about 3 turns too tight. Lighten up!
| 613 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:41:07am |
re: #552 Walter L. Newton
I've always wanted to work for an escort agency... wheee...
| 614 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:41:09am |
re: #608 iceweasel
EVERYTHING, yes.
Especially when the ignorami disagree with Obama for issues on which they loooved identical Bush decisions.
Exactly. There is no clearer giveaway - and we have seen a lot of that from right wing circles, sad to say.
| 615 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:41:21am |
re: #567 Mad Al-Jaffee
Rachel Corrie's family is suing Israel:
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
They can fuck right off.
| 616 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:41:37am |
re: #571 windsagio
Okay, have a good one.
| 617 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:41:47am |
| 618 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:41:57am |
re: #593 Jimmah
Oh right, so you are concerned with 'getting it to disappear'. Not denying it, as seemed very much the case. Yeah, sure.
?
Why wouldn't I want it to disappear?
| 619 |
cliffster Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:42:27am |
re: #612 windsagio
dude, your sphincter is twisted about 3 turns too tight. Lighten up!
Better too tight than too loose.
| 620 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:42:28am |
re: #610 windsagio
I find the real hint for ODS is that certain emotional force they get behind their denouncements.
And who decides when that "emotional level" has reached ODS?
| 621 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:42:28am |
re: #616 Rightwingconspirator
hehe lord, I"m not leaving, just done with that subject ;) Thanks tho :D
| 622 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:42:49am |
re: #610 windsagio
I find the real hint for ODS is that certain emotional force they get behind their denouncements.
Basically, yes.
Also egregiously false statements, like "Obama is an idiot...a second rate mind...knows nothing"
And criticising Obama for continuing policies they loved under Bush is a most excellent sign that we are dealing with a fucking ignorant tool who ALSO has ODS. Call it the FIT ODS contingent, as they are quite fit for ODS.
| 623 |
Lidane Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:44:18am |
Oh, how I love The Onion:
Latest Sarah Palin Speech Opens Sixth Seal
IDAHO FALLS, ID—Speaking unto an audience of anti-immigration advocates, global-warming deniers, and members of the Tea Party Nation, former Alaska governor and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin gave forth utterances Monday that reportedly opened the sixth seal of the Book of the Apocalypse.
"Wow, it's good to be here, just shootin' the breeze with a bunch of real, hardworking Americans who love their freedom," said Palin, her words echoing across the Idaho Falls Civic Auditorium as mighty tremors caused great unrest beneath the land and the sea. "So are the little guys like you and me gonna fight these Washington insiders with their big government agenda? You betcha we are!"
And lo, there was then a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair; and the moon became as blood; and "gosh" was spoken repeatedly; and the stars of heaven fell upon the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken by a mighty wind.
And the 10th mention of "small town folk" brought forth a great belching chasm of death and dust.
These disturbances reportedly went unnoticed by the audience, however, as their thunderous applause drowned out the sound of the foretold cataclysm.
"This Tea Party movement just goes to show ya that America is ready for another revolution," Palin said as things long ago divined came finally to pass. "Who do you think is gonna stand up for the freedoms promised by our Founding Fathers? Folks like us, or some socialist professor of constitutional law in the Oval Office?"
It was then, witnesses claim, that there was a tearing of the heavens, and the skies receded as does a scroll when it is rolled up, and anecdotes about everyday middle-class Alaskan families were enunciated in down-to-earth tones.
"That's right, partner," Palin said, as every mountain and island moved from its place, and flames overtook the lakes and the rivers and the seas. "Thanks, but no thanks."
Heh.
| 624 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:44:42am |
re: #608 iceweasel
EVERYTHING, yes.
Especially when the ignorami disagree with Obama for issues on which they loooved identical Bush decisions.
As exemplified by the outbreak of peacenik rhetoric at CPAC and in various other wingnut circles. You'd think Obama had started bombing Branson or something.
| 625 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:44:43am |
re: #620 Walter L. Newton
And who decides when that "emotional level" has reached ODS?
leftists, of course...actually the whole concept is another trumped up fantasy to dismiss an opinion...the is no such thing as ODS, unless you need it for some purpose of labeling...who gives a fuck?...they say I have OBS, so what?...I say they have reverse OBS
| 626 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:44:56am |
re: #620 Walter L. Newton
Well calling Obama 'a fool' is a good hint usually, generally its just common sense.
| 627 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:46:23am |
re: #626 windsagio
Well calling Obama 'a fool' is a good hint usually, generally its just common sense.
politically, BO is an idiot and a fool...so are 90% of all politicians....I have PDS, woohooo!
| 628 |
ShaunP Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:46:40am |
re: #625 albusteve
leftists, of course...actually the whole concept is another trumped up fantasy to dismiss an opinion...the is no such thing as ODS, unless you need it for some purpose of labeling...who gives a fuck?...they say I have OBS, so what?...I say they have reverse OBS
Ironic that you would use the term "leftist" in your criticism of "ODS"...
| 629 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:46:47am |
Walter and Reine and Steve:
When have you ever known someone who had a cognitive error like this to actually admit it, or have someone with the same error admit it for that matter?
The only one I can think of was me saying I had "LDS" but that was kinda a joke >>
| 630 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:46:59am |
re: #615 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
They can fuck right off.
They should be sueing ISM. I wish they were.
| 632 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:47:34am |
re: #628 ShaunP
Ironic that you would use the term "leftist" in your criticism of "ODS"...
irony is all over the place
| 633 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:48:00am |
re: #613 The Sanity Inspector
About three years ago, I did actually sit down with someone who ran an escort agency. He wanted to automate his service with some web based software, His current business model was to email his escorts with a date, they would record the all the details of the date in an excel spreadsheet and one a week, come into the office for a meeting where all the excel spreadsheets would be combined and payment made.
He wanted a website where the girls could simply go on line, get their assignments and record the transaction information on the website, payments would be interbank or Paypal and no one would ever have to come into the office or bother with meetings.
He didn't want to spend enough money to really make that sort of website secure enough to keep out the authorities. I don't want the authorities to find my wonderful programming work.
We parted ways.
| 634 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:48:55am |
re: #618 reine.de.tout
?
Why wouldn't I want it to disappear?
Well I hope you do. Being realistic about its existence would seem to be a necessary step towards achieving that, instead of denying it.
I wish the occasional criticism of Obama in these threads wasn't seen as ODS, as it almost always seems to be.
| 635 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:49:13am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
They should be sueing ISM. I wish they were.
Their suit against Caterpillar got tossed. I hope this one does, too.
| 636 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:49:26am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
They should be sueing ISM. I wish they were.
They should, but considering who she was, it's no surprise that her parents share the same mental bent. Of course they wouldn't see it any way other than "The evil jooos flattened our peace-loving daughter into a pancake."
| 638 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:49:42am |
re: #629 windsagio
Walter and Reine and Steve:
When have you ever known someone who had a cognitive error like this to actually admit it, or have someone with the same error admit it for that matter?
The only one I can think of was me saying I had "LDS" but that was kinda a joke >>
I like albusteve, but honestly - he does suffer from 'ODS'.
Now, if you can find a post of mine where I've shown that sort of vitriol toward Obama, you may accuse me of ODS.
I don't think you'll find it.
| 639 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:49:50am |
re: #633 Walter L. Newton
So...was it an "escort service" or an escort service?
| 640 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:50:19am |
re: #634 Jimmah
LOL. 'occasional' criticism of Obama was the best part.
| 641 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:50:36am |
re: #620 Walter L. Newton
And who decides when that "emotional level" has reached ODS?
ODS, like BDS, PDS, CDS, and unlike alcoholism, is diagnosed by observers.
It can be self-diagnosed as well. I myself have a scorching case of PDS.
| 642 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:51:17am |
re: #634 Jimmah
There is the occasional criticism of President Obama that is labelled ODS immediately.
Then there's the real ODS.
And I've seen it, and I don't deny it.
But that's not what I was talking about in that comment. The comment was a specific response to something specific someone else said.
| 643 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:52:08am |
re: #638 reine.de.tout
I don't think I have accused you of that. My point is, that its not natural for people to think bad things about themselves ;)
| 644 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:53:21am |
re: #587 Obdicut
I've had it happen to me. So yes, it really does happen.
From the posts of yours I've read, I've not seen you advocate a position where those terms would apply.
I try and read what I can in the forum threads and stay abreast of most of the posters thoughts and positions - and I do find we all share some core beliefs. I can appreciate other views than mine, and when time permits try and engage in discussions.
One thought that does come to mind for me is that there are very few posters that I never find an issue that I myself agree with. Heck, I'll throw an upding for them too.
but being the weak human I am, there might be a few that I just can't bring my finger to click the dinger for ;)
| 645 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:53:33am |
re: #643 windsagio
I don't think I have accused you of that. My point is, that its not natural for people to think bad things about themselves ;)
Well, you're right about that.
In fact, thinking of it, I have to try really hard to think of something bad about myself.
Mostly I'm practically perfect in every way
/
| 646 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:53:43am |
re: #643 windsagio
I don't think I have accused you of that. My point is, that its not natural for people to think bad things about themselves ;)
No one has accused reine of having ODS.
Merely of ignoring, denying or minimising its existence here.
| 647 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:54:25am |
re: #643 windsagio
I don't think I have accused you of that. My point is, that its not natural for people to think bad things about themselves ;)
And I wasn't sure what you were saying; just trying to cover my bases.
| 648 |
_RememberTonyC Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:54:31am |
Son of hamas founder was a top Israeli agent ...
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
His words about the prospects for muslim/Israeli peace are quite revealing.
Enjoy .... BBL
| 649 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:54:33am |
re: #646 iceweasel
I should add 'its also not natural to think bad things about your friends.'
Thats a bit trickier tho'
| 650 |
Soap_Man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:54:48am |
re: #622 iceweasel
Basically, yes.
Also egregiously false statements, like "Obama is an idiot...a second rate mind...knows nothing"
I agree and disagree. The people who say he is unintelligent are, well, fools IMO. From an academic standpoint, he is obviously very intelligent. For God's sake, he taught at the University of Chicago. This school is consistently placed in the top 10 in the world. They won't hire anyone to teach there unless they are brilliant. I should know because my girlfriend goes there. I've seen her homework.
But I don't think it is ODS to see his policiesas foolish. There are plenty of people who know an issue backwards and forwards, but are still unsuccessful applying their abundant knowledge to practical, real world solutions.
| 651 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:55:23am |
re: #629 windsagio
Walter and Reine and Steve:
When have you ever known someone who had a cognitive error like this to actually admit it, or have someone with the same error admit it for that matter?
The only one I can think of was me saying I had "LDS" but that was kinda a joke >>
You keep making my point. You are the one who decides if someone has ODS. You are claiming it's a cognitive error to not like Obama. What gives your pronouncement any note, except that the fact is you said it.
It's not a science, it's not part of the DSM IV or something, it's a bit of rhetoric that you or I can try to use to your/my advantage in a debate or a discussion or argument.
Otherwise, you, me anyone claiming someone has ODS, that's just empty words, have no meaning, it's an opinion, not some measurable fact, except on your scale.
Do you understand where I am coming from. It's not a measurable condition, it simply your opinion.
I don't disagree with every policy of his, a few items I do agree with. I've been tagged with ODS and as being a racist. Do you agree, I have ODS and I am a racist? If you don't agree, then that proves my point.
It's a unmeasurable and useless rhetoric.
| 652 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:56:15am |
I think that part of our ongoing trouble here is that criticism of the opposition often seems commonsense or lightly hyperbolic, and criticism of one's own team seems irrational, malicious and deeply screwed up.
| 653 |
The Sanity Inspector Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:56:27am |
Meatspace obligations beckon, bbl.
| 654 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:57:08am |
re: #642 reine.de.tout
There is the occasional criticism of President Obama that is labelled ODS immediately.
Then there's the real ODS.
And I've seen it, and I don't deny it.But that's not what I was talking about in that comment. The comment was a specific response to something specific someone else said.
It read for all the world like your general diagnosis of the state of 'these threads'. I suppose your frantic backpedalling is a good sign though.
| 655 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:57:59am |
re: #645 reine.de.tout
Most of my top-level thoughts about myself are negative, but positively negative; they're all things I'm working on.
For example, I wish this damn rain would stop so I could start jogging in the morning again and shave off this lard-sling I've got wrapped around my middle.
| 656 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:58:07am |
re: #639 EmmmieG
So...was it an "escort service" or an escort service?
What? It was a dating service. They arranged dates, the girls then arranged other services I guess. The standard racket. You're question does not make sense to me.
| 657 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:58:14am |
re: #646 iceweasel
No one has accused reine of having ODS.
Merely of ignoring, denying or minimising its existence here.
ODS absolutely exists here (as well as 'out there",,, "real world"!)
Knee Jerk accusations of ODS also exist here (as well as "out there")
| 658 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:58:35am |
There's something bullies like to get their victims to do. It's called JADE.
Justify.
Argue.
Defend.
Explain.
| 659 |
shiplord kirel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:59:07am |
A huge outbreak of peacenik wingnuttery at L. Brent Bozell's CNS News:
A Third of All U.S. Casualties in Eight-Year Afghan War Have Occurred Since Obama Ordered Escalation
(Check the comments)
| 660 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:59:27am |
re: #652 SanFranciscoZionist
I think that part of our ongoing trouble here is that criticism of the opposition often seems commonsense or lightly hyperbolic, and criticism of one's own team seems irrational, malicious and deeply screwed up.
Sure.
Take for example the wingnut wardance during the STOU address and the Brown thread. Those are truly excellent examples of-- wait, I'm sorry, I believe you wanted to argue something like "hey guys, let's all get along and the wingnuts here really never overreact and aren't even uglier in 'victory' than they are in defeat'.
Whoops. Sorry.
| 661 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:59:38am |
re: #656 Walter L. Newton
What? It was a dating service. They arranged dates, the girls then arranged other services I guess. The standard racket. You're question does not make sense to me.
If all they did was go on dates, then who cares if the authorities found out?
I will confess here to being totally ignorant about the laws regarding selling your company for the evening.
| 662 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:00:15am |
re: #629 windsagio
Walter and Reine and Steve:
When have you ever known someone who had a cognitive error like this to actually admit it, or have someone with the same error admit it for that matter?
The only one I can think of was me saying I had "LDS" but that was kinda a joke >>
And why are you including me in the ODS "list" of yours. I don't hate Obama, I actually agree on a few of the policies he has brought up, I disagree with a lot more.
You have some fucking nerve to put me in this "list" of yours.
| 663 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:00:26am |
re: #654 Jimmah
It read for all the world like your general diagnosis of the state of 'these threads'. I suppose your frantic backpedalling is a good sign though.
You've stated that I've taken certain positions.
I am attempting to explain my position better, since apparently I did not do a good job before.
If you wish to characterize that as "backpedalling', well, I can't stop you.
And if you don't wish to exchange information to find out what my real position is, well, OK with me.
| 664 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:01:29am |
re: #661 EmmmieG
If all they did was go on dates, then who cares if the authorities found out?
I will confess here to being totally ignorant about the laws regarding selling your company for the evening.
They were selling sex, using the standard legal front that is usually used.
| 665 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:02:08am |
re: #664 Walter L. Newton
They were selling sex, using the standard legal front that is usually used.
Marriage?
///
| 666 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:02:25am |
re: #664 Walter L. Newton
They were selling sex, using the standard legal front that is usually used.
Got it. Ick.
| 667 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:02:52am |
re: #642 reine.de.tout
There is the occasional criticism of President Obama that is labelled ODS immediately.
Then there's the real ODS.
And I've seen it, and I don't deny it.But that's not what I was talking about in that comment. The comment was a specific response to something specific someone else said.
Spot on.
Anyone searching my comments would see I made favourable comments here during Obama's first months, which was before many Obama supporters registered. Now I find fault with Obama as I've seen him in action, and I feel free to mention my opinions. Politicians are open to criticism, it comes with the territory.
I try to be balanced but, like Steve, I have an unfavourable opinion of politicians in general and we all tend to accentuate the faults of those we oppose and ignore the faults of those we support.
| 668 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:02:53am |
re: #662 Walter L. Newton
I didn't accuse you of ODS, nor did I accuse Reine. I understand how the phrasing (with hindsight) could read that way, and I apologize.
I was responding to your comments above, and didn't wanna use the 'respond' button.
| 669 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:03:55am |
re: #657 sattv4u2
We don't have kneejerk accusations of ODS here.
That's partly because we don't have any "Obama-bots" here.
Please do point me to any 'kneejerk' ODS accusations you see here. I would appreciate it.
| 670 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:05:30am |
The Blind Side...Just watched it..It just shot up to the #1 sports movie of all time...Yes Lizards it just beat out Brian's Song....The one movie in the whole world where even if you are 6'9" monster you are allowed to cry at the end...
It's the one movie that all guys cry at the end..
My Review...
This true sports story hammered me in at least 4 places...
The hight light was when Sandra Bullock and Big Mike's crack whore mom met together and talked.. You know why she is getting the Oscar this year? Just pure genius and if that scene doesn't knock your socks off I don't know what will.. She just won the Academy award...Just like that...Everybody is saying it..Watch that scene..I had tears rolling down my eyes and Winston is jumping around all worried about me...
Just hit #1 on the Hoopsters all time favorite sports movies list..
I give it 5 stars...
/That Bitch Sandra just won an Oscar? Can you believe it? This is the same girls from speed 2 and a million romantic comedies...This is an absolute perfect roll for her...
genius Sandra...
| 672 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:07:53am |
re: #671 Soap_Man
That was very deep. I shall have to think long and hard about your comment.
| 673 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:08:02am |
re: #669 iceweasel
like has been said, people usually get called on ODS when they say things like 'he's a fool' or 'he's a second-class mind' or 'he's a drooling idiot'.
If people called ODS every time someone said something bad about obama, that'd be half the posts on the blog ;)
| 674 |
Soap_Man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:08:20am |
| 675 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:08:26am |
re: #658 MandyManners
There's something bullies like to get their victims to do. It's called JADE.
Justify.
Argue.
Defend.
Explain.
Spot on.
| 676 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:08:39am |
This was probably covered already, but... another school shooting here in Colorado... 3 miles from Columbine, about 15 miles from where I'm at... same town as Columbine... Littleton.
Gunfire hits 2 kids at Deer Creek Middle School in Littleton
| 677 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:09:31am |
Not so big as you may imagine. After a long career of murder and terror, Hamas was voted into office by the Palestinians, after Israel evacuated the Gaza Strip. They are therefore complicit in Hamas' actions since then.
So by that same token you agree with everything Obama has done, and will ever do as President! Your country elected him, by your logic that means you stand 100% behind everything he does. Glad we got that cleared up.
| 678 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:10:00am |
re: #675 Bagua
Not really, its right to force people to explain wrong ideas and actions.
Theres a chance (albeit small) that they'll actually consider what they just said or thought that way.
Its a good way to try to stifle criticism tho'!
| 679 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:10:16am |
re: #660 iceweasel
Sure.
Take for example the wingnut wardance during the STOU address and the Brown thread. Those are truly excellent examples of-- wait, I'm sorry, I believe you wanted to argue something like "hey guys, let's all get along and the wingnuts here really never overreact and aren't even uglier in 'victory' than they are in defeat'.Whoops. Sorry.
No. I meant exactly what I said.
I see people getting upset here about sweeping statements about conservatives, who would argue that sweeping statements about liberals are simply 'true'. Cliffster and I have an ongoing dialogue about this. He thinks conservatives are unjustly maligned on this site, I don't. I don't think either of us is lying, I think we see the same things and process them completely differently based on affiliations.
I can see this in myself: "THE PRESIDENT is an incompetant joke who should never have been elected. I can't imagine what kind of moron voted for this guy. His rich friends must have bought the election for him," feels completely different to me, depending on whose name you slot in for THE PRESIDENT. Not just 'agree or disagree', but the degree of hostility perceived, assumptions about the conspiracy-theory proneness of the speaker...
I do appreciate 'wingnut wardance'. That's precisely what the night of the Brown victory was.
| 680 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:11:32am |
re: #679 SanFranciscoZionist
The Brown thing confused me because nobody seemed to really know a damn thing about him.
| 681 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:11:50am |
re: #669 iceweasel
We don't have kneejerk accusations of ODS here.
That's partly because we don't have any "Obama-bots" here.Please do point me to any 'kneejerk' ODS accusations you see here. I would appreciate it.
Will do ,,,, Next time I see it and you're here,, I'll just respond to you as such
"KJ (Knee Jerk) on aisle #,,,"
| 682 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:12:20am |
re: #681 sattv4u2
Will do ,,, Next time I see it and you're here,, I'll just respond to you as such
"KJ (Knee Jerk) on aisle #,,,"
Excellent, thank you. Cheers.
| 683 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:12:23am |
re: #678 windsagio
Not really, its right to force people to explain wrong ideas and actions.
Theres a chance (albeit small) that they'll actually consider what they just said or thought that way.
Its a good way to try to stifle criticism tho'!
It is the dose which makes the poison. A little less, is medicine. Less still, and one is sick without it. Too much, deadly.
| 684 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:12:44am |
Always nice to hear from the boss you're the one person he can rely on, especially when he is the middle of a rant on how he is gonna fire all the dead weight and unreliable bastards on the team.
| 685 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:12:48am |
re: #679 SanFranciscoZionist
well in comparison, do you see many people on here saying the things about Bush that people on here say about Obama? (the extreme things that is)
| 686 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:13:06am |
re: #658 MandyManners
There's something bullies like to get their victims to do. It's called JADE.
Justify.
Argue.
Defend.
Explain.
Oooh. Teh deengs dey hirrrtzzz.
| 687 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:13:11am |
re: #678 windsagio
Not really, its right to force people to explain wrong ideas and actions.
Theres a chance (albeit small) that they'll actually consider what they just said or thought that way.
Its a good way to try to stifle criticism tho'!
Well said!
| 688 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:13:23am |
re: #676 Walter L. Newton
What beautiful children. My prayers for the young man to recover.
| 689 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:13:32am |
re: #685 windsagio
well in comparison, do you see many people on here saying the things about Bush that people on here say about Obama? (the extreme things that is)
HA! oh ha....ahem.
| 691 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:14:28am |
| 692 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:14:33am |
re: #683 Bagua
Sure. What she said was a cynical manipulation of a reasonable concept in order to shut down opposition.
Ironically, she was bullying by claiming to point out bullying.
| 693 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:14:36am |
| 694 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:15:17am |
re: #588 oaktree
I think you will like this comic
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 695 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:15:42am |
re: #690 iceweasel
Heh I noticed that too, mandy watches the dings on her posts like a freaking hawk.
We should be flattered that our responses mean so much to her >>
| 696 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:16:02am |
re: #685 windsagio
well in comparison, do you see many people on here saying the things about Bush that people on here say about Obama? (the extreme things that is)
I would say over the years I've been on LGF, I have never seen anyone making the same sort of snide-assed remarks about Bush that I have seen made about President Obama.
Doesn't happen here. Why, have you seen that sort of stuff here, someplace else?
| 697 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:16:11am |
re: #692 windsagio
Sure. What she said was a cynical manipulation of a reasonable concept in order to shut down opposition.
Ironically, she was bullying by claiming to point out bullying.
Hardly ironic. Mandy and Bagua love to bully by claiming they're being bullied. Pure projection.
| 698 |
Soap_Man Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:16:17am |
Just watched the hearings from the Toyota safety issues. So, the CEO of Toyota is Akio Toyoda? That's wild.
Okay. I'm out. Everyone have fun.
| 699 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:17:22am |
re: #667 Bagua
Spot on.
Anyone searching my comments would see I made favourable comments here during Obama's first months, which was before many Obama supporters registered. Now I find fault with Obama as I've seen him in action, and I feel free to mention my opinions. Politicians are open to criticism, it comes with the territory.
I try to be balanced but, like Steve, I have an unfavourable opinion of politicians in general and we all tend to accentuate the faults of those we oppose and ignore the faults of those we support.
And anyone searching my comments would find, I think, that I'm not in the habit of:
1. Making broad sweeping generalizations.
2. Calling anyone any sort of names.
3. Calling the President a "joke" or speaking in disrespectful terms about the President.
4. Telling people what it is they are pretending to say or do - if it isn't clear to me, I tend to ask them to explain, rather than accuse them of this or that which puts them in a defensive position immediately, and any response they have can then be characterized as "backpedalling", when it's nothing more than "explaining".
| 700 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:17:59am |
re: #696 Walter L. Newton
that's my point. SFZ (bless her :p) is making an unreasonable claim of equivalence.
| 701 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:18:03am |
re: #508 reine.de.tout
You are correct.
However, when a person talking about Hamas and its activities gets called out for being "racist", there's something just not right.
And often they talk about "Muslims" when they really mean "assholes who happen to be Muslim", and that's not right either.
re: #165 MandyManners
They look for any reason to get their hate on.
| 702 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:18:06am |
re: #695 windsagio
Heh I noticed that too, mandy watches the dings on her posts like a freaking hawk.
We should be flattered that our responses mean so much to her >>
She got all excited a couple of months ago when she finally wound up in the top ten again. It was so cute...no, it wasn't cute at all.
But it was extremely satisfying to know she's been taking note of how often she's in the bottom ten now for vicious comments!
| 703 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:18:18am |
re: #692 windsagio
Sure. What she said was a cynical manipulation of a reasonable concept in order to shut down opposition.
Ironically, she was bullying by claiming to point out bullying.
Anything can always be argued. You are always commenting on peoples motivations and judging their posts and conduct. Are you training for a talk show host position?
| 704 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:18:38am |
Wow. Anyone who thinks that we were better off with McCain as President needs to read this immediately. He has apparently started claiming that Obama suspended his campaign as well when McCain attempted to back out of the Presidential debate. Link
"[Bush] didn't ask me to suspend my campaign," said McCain. "I suspended my campaign -- as did Senator Obama -- to come back to Washington because the President had told me that we were in a world financial collapse. That's why I did what I did. I always said that consistently."
Is he even aware of how absolutely insane he is beginning to sound? Between this and his odd insistence that he never held changed his stance on global warming and immigration, I can't tell if he is a terrible liar, or a sociopath.
| 705 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:19:04am |
re: #696 Walter L. Newton
I would say over the years I've been on LGF, I have never seen anyone making the same sort of snide-assed remarks about Bush that I have seen made about President Obama.
Doesn't happen here. Why, have you seen that sort of stuff here, someplace else?
Oh c'mon Walter...there have been many posts here about not only Bush (by republicans I might add, remember some of the TARP discussions, or the immigration stuff?) that were over the top, and, recently there have been many over the top post from our left leaning friends that could be considered over the top. (and many over the top posts about Mr. Obama as well)
Oh, but of course, it's worse now.
| 706 |
The Left Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:20:35am |
re: #699 reine.de.tout
And anyone searching my comments would find, I think, that I'm not in the habit of:
1. Making broad sweeping generalizations.
Now I'm just playing with you, but I do have to point out that this and your list itself is...making "broad sweeping generalisations". Which is also redundant, 3X.
This isn't a criticism, reine, just pedantry.
| 707 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:20:45am |
Well, that was a fun conference call. 7 out of 11 people on the team told they were on the verge of getting fired, and now the frantic CYA and stupid office politics which got them in trouble in the first place are kicking into overdrive. YAY! Luckily, I covered my ass the old fashioned way and actually do my job, lol. Hell, I might end up as a manager out of all this.
| 708 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:21:09am |
re: #700 windsagio
that's my point. SFZ (bless her :p) is making an unreasonable claim of equivalence.
re: #705 Stonemason
Oh c'mon Walter...there have been many posts here about not only Bush (by republicans I might add, remember some of the TARP discussions, or the immigration stuff?) that were over the top, and, recently there have been many over the top post from our left leaning friends that could be considered over the top. (and many over the top posts about Mr. Obama as well)
Oh, but of course, it's worse now.
No kidding... I was just wondering how gullible and out of touch with reality that Windsagio is...
Question was answered.
LOL.
| 709 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:21:20am |
re: #703 Bagua
/No, I just think highly of myself :P
Serioiusly tho' the motivations are the important part.
This is the internet, and anyone can and will say anything they want. What's telling and interesting is how people think about their positions and why.
The rest is just the usual left/right "Fascism!"/"Socialism!" bullcrap. It can be fun sometimes, but it doesn't really mean much.
| 710 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:22:00am |
re: #702 iceweasel
She got all excited a couple of months ago when she finally wound up in the top ten again. It was so cute...no, it wasn't cute at all.
But it was extremely satisfying to know she's been taking note of how often she's in the bottom ten now for vicious comments!
Yes, the dings clearly mean rather a lot to her. And now she's in the bottom ten almost every day for some outburst or other.
Can't be long before Charles starts getting hit with multiple requests from the wingnut quarter to remove the ding facility from the site altogether. Assuming that isn't happening already, of course.
| 711 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:22:01am |
re: #699 reine.de.tout
And anyone searching my comments would find, I think, that I'm not in the habit of:
1. Making broad sweeping generalizations.
2. Calling anyone any sort of names.
3. Calling the President a "joke" or speaking in disrespectful terms about the President.
4. Telling people what it is they are pretending to say or do - if it isn't clear to me, I tend to ask them to explain, rather than accuse them of this or that which puts them in a defensive position immediately, and any response they have can then be characterized as "backpedalling", when it's nothing more than "explaining".
Quite right. You are one of the most consistently balanced and fair poster on this site.
What you are noting in #4 is the tendency towards hostility and baiting. Always a little spin thrown in, such as "backpedalling" and accusations instead of comments or honest questions.
Fellow Poster Derangement Syndrome.
| 712 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:22:18am |
re: #705 Stonemason
Oh c'mon Walter...there have been many posts here about not only Bush (by republicans I might add, remember some of the TARP discussions, or the immigration stuff?) that were over the top, and, recently there have been many over the top post from our left leaning friends that could be considered over the top. (and many over the top posts about Mr. Obama as well)
Oh, but of course, it's worse now.
The difference of course being the actual substance of the comments. Calling Bush a warmonger after he invaded two nations has some logical coherence. Calling Obama a socialist, terrorist-loving Muslim after he has helped transfer trillions of dollars to Wall Street while escalating the Afghan war just doesn't make any sense.
| 713 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:22:40am |
re: #677 drcordell
So by that same token you agree with everything Obama has done, and will ever do as President! Your country elected him, by your logic that means you stand 100% behind everything he does. Glad we got that cleared up.
I still remember the throngs of Gazan's dancing and passing out candy following the 9/11 attacks..... I've missed their transformation as a group of people celebrating American Deaths and into recognizing Israel's right to exist with peace among Her border nations?
| 714 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:22:53am |
re: #674 Soap_Man
Okay, not sure what happened there...
re: #670 HoosierHoops
I think Field of Dreams falls in that category as well.
I should have qualified.. This is the #1 true sports story on my list..
Then there are movies like the field of dreams and the love of the game..There are thousands of those movies..And I have my top 20 list.
Then the documentary movies... Miracle on Ice or all those ABC shows on the Olympics over the years...
And Shaq playing basketball with Bugs Bunny..I'm not sure where to put those kind of movies...
| 715 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:23:59am |
| 716 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:24:07am |
re: #706 iceweasel
Now I'm just playing with you, but I do have to point out that this and your list itself is...making "broad sweeping generalisations". Which is also redundant, 3X.
This isn't a criticism, reine, just pedantry.
Heh.
Broad sweeping generalizations about others, then.
I reserve the right to make broad sweeping generalizations about my own self.
| 717 |
MandyManners Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:24:14am |
re: #686 MandyManners
Oooh. Teh deengz dey birrrnnnzzz.
| 718 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:24:20am |
re: #713 Ericus58
The logic was that since they elected Hamas, they are responsible for Hamas's actions. Therefore, since we elected Obama, are we not responsible for Obama's actions?
Simply by that logic, I mean.
| 719 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:24:28am |
re: #709 windsagio
/No, I just think highly of myself :P
Serioiusly tho' the motivations are the important part.
This is the internet, and anyone can and will say anything they want. What's telling and interesting is how people think about their positions and why.
The rest is just the usual left/right "Fascism!"/"Socialism!" bullcrap. It can be fun sometimes, but it doesn't really mean much.
Yep, and most of the discussion is quite interesting and valuable. I wouldn't want to shut you down with labels any more than I want to be shut down. At least we discuss things here and work through issues, despite the occasional sniping.
| 720 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:24:30am |
re: #679 SanFranciscoZionist
Ya got Game, Kid..... always liked ya.
| 721 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:24:58am |
re: #712 drcordell
The difference of course being the actual substance of the comments. Calling Bush a warmonger after he invaded two nations has some logical coherence. Calling Obama a socialist, terrorist-loving Muslim after he has helped transfer trillions of dollars to Wall Street while escalating the Afghan war just doesn't make any sense.
Now we have two people who are certainly gullible and out of touch with reality and have no idea what kind of rhetoric has gone down here on LGF.
| 722 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:25:21am |
re: #715 Stonemason
like I said...
of course it is worse now.
Thanks for backing up my point.
Noticed that? Like fish to bait.
| 723 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:25:32am |
re: #713 Ericus58
I still remember the throngs of Gazan's dancing and passing out candy following the 9/11 attacks... I've missed their transformation as a group of people celebrating American Deaths and into recognizing Israel's right to exist with peace among Her border nations?
You just can't help yourself. So by that same token you have no problem being lumped in with any crowd of Americans shown on television doing something. Because a Gazan saw a teabagger rally on television, it's logical for him to assume that you share all of the beliefs espoused at that gathering?
| 724 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:26:05am |
re: #719 Bagua
the caveat is that each of us just have issues that we'd do better to stay away from.
I've let a few of mine slip on occasion, but yeah... >>
| 725 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:26:16am |
re: #722 Walter L. Newton
And the word for doing that is 'trolling', Walter.
| 727 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:28:08am |
re: #724 windsagio
the caveat is that each of us just have issues that we'd do better to stay away from.
I've let a few of mine slip on occasion, but yeah... >>
Agreed.
| 728 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:28:21am |
re: #711 Bagua
Quite right. You are one of the most consistently balanced and fair poster on this site.
What you are noting in #4 is the tendency towards hostility and baiting. Always a little spin thrown in, such as "backpedalling" and accusations instead of comments or honest questions.
Fellow Poster Derangement Syndrome.
Bagua, Bagua, Bagua.
"Fellow Poster Derangement Syndrome".
Hush, now, and play nice.
:-)
I worked with a woman once whose mother did craft-types of things, and the woman I worked with used to joke all the time that her mom did a great job EXCEPT she would always add just one more thing that would cross the line from cutesy to tacky.
LOL.
Some folks' comments are the same way.
| 729 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:28:29am |
re: #725 Obdicut
And the word for doing that is 'trolling', Walter.
Deal with it... LOL... wow, name calling, really scary... now I'm shaking in my boots.
No, it's called putting ones foot in ones mouth, which is a standard position for some people around here.
Boo...
| 731 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:29:48am |
re: #729 Walter L. Newton
No, Walter, I mean that 'baiting a hook', making a statement you don't think is true in order to have people 'swim for it', is the definition of trolling.
I have no idea why you think I'm trying to scare you.
| 732 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:30:15am |
re: #715 Stonemason
like I said...
of course it is worse now.
Thanks for backing up my point.
All I am saying is, the trademark of someone being deranged is that they lack any sort of logic. Claiming that Bush let 9/11 happen is deranged. Claiming Bush let Katrina happen because he hates black people is deranged. Calling Obama a socialist while he proceeds to support the giant banks in this nation raping the taxpayer is deranged. Calling Obama a "sekrit muslem" is deranged. Calling Obama a terrorist sympathizer while he continues to escalate the war in Afghanistan is deranged.
Questioning Bush's motives for invading Iraq after there has been no evidence of Iraqi WMD's is not deranged. Questioning Bush's stewardship of the economy during his Presidency is not deranged. Questioning Obama's plans for America's healthcare system is not deranged. Questioning Obama's national security policies rationally (key word rationally) is not deranged.
Does this make sense?
| 733 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:30:20am |
re: #728 reine.de.tout
Bagua, Bagua, Bagua.
"Fellow Poster Derangement Syndrome".
Hush, now, and play nice.
:-)I worked with a woman once whose mother did craft-types of things, and the woman I worked with used to joke all the time that her mom did a great job EXCEPT she would always add just one more thing that would cross the line from cutesy to tacky.
LOL.
Some folks' comments are the same way.
Bagua dear - meaning yours just then.
Sorry.
| 734 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:30:23am |
re: #730 iceweasel
lol.
Poor thing.
Ice... how is the visa and moving thing going. Maybe I missed some things, but, are you over there for good yet?
| 735 |
Jeff In Ohio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:31:05am |
Ah, I see the morning political vivisection has been in full force this morning. Since it's way past noon here in EST, it's time to roll the cart around and get the dead out.
| 736 |
Bagua Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:31:41am |
re: #728 reine.de.tout
Such a diverse and wonderful group. But you're right, we should always consider the source and note the differences in style and tendency.
| 737 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:31:44am |
re: #735 Jeff In Ohio
Ah, I see the morning political vivisection has been in full force this morning. Since it's way past noon here in EST, it's time to roll the cart around and get the dead out.
[Video]
I'm not dead yet.
| 738 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:32:10am |
re: #731 Obdicut
No, Walter, I mean that 'baiting a hook', making a statement you don't think is true in order to have people 'swim for it', is the definition of trolling.
I have no idea why you think I'm trying to scare you.
Good... play smart... think about what you are reading and don't react to the first thing you read... think... use your brain... careful... there are people trolling. Sarcasm and nuance is not you forte, is it? I don't care what you call it, or me. Have fun ranger.
| 739 |
Stonemason Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:33:18am |
re: #732 drcordell
Your original post made no mention of legitimate concerns about Mr. Obama being allowed, did it? Nope, it did not.
Oh, and of course it also did not allow for illigitimate concerns over Mr. Bush either. Which is my point.
Crazy people are crazy people, right, left, or center.
It is not worse now, it is different...understand?
| 740 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:36:11am |
re: #734 Walter L. Newton
Ice... how is the visa and moving thing going. Maybe I missed some things, but, are you over there for good yet?
Making progress - just chasing up the last of the documents I need as sponsor! I'm coming to Manhattan shortly to wait for the visa to clear.
| 741 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:37:04am |
re: #707 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Do you really want to be the manager in that sort of office environment though?
| 742 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:37:10am |
re: #738 Walter L. Newton
You pick the most random insults.
| 743 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:37:28am |
re: #740 Jimmah
Making progress - just chasing up the last of the documents I need as sponsor! I'm coming to Manhattan shortly to wait for the visa to clear.
[Video]
Good... I bet she can't wait to get over there on some sort of permanent or at least semi-permanent basis. I'm routing for it all working out.
| 744 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:37:54am |
| 745 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:41:37am |
re: #743 Walter L. Newton
Good... I bet she can't wait to get over there on some sort of permanent or at least semi-permanent basis. I'm routing for it all working out.
When Jimmah gets to NY I'm going to use some frequent flyer miles to drop in the City for the Weekend and visit them both...
Somebody on this board needs to take a bite out of the Big Apple sometimes...
| 746 |
Kragar Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:41:49am |
re: #741 oaktree
Do you really want to be the manager in that sort of office environment though?
Not with the people whose names are on the chopping block. If they get cut loose and I can bring in some new blood, then yeah. Any way, I know they won't make me manager for one simple reason, location. All Senior management is located back east and they want to be able to grab someone at a moments notice, while I'm 3 time zones away. Its also the main reason I can avoid the bullshit and get things done.
| 747 |
Ericus58 Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:41:57am |
re: #723 drcordell
You just can't help yourself. So by that same token you have no problem being lumped in with any crowd of Americans shown on television doing something. Because a Gazan saw a teabagger rally on television, it's logical for him to assume that you share all of the beliefs espoused at that gathering?
Poor analagy... and what is it I can't help myself on?
Today's overnight thread had the theme of Hamas and what it stands for and the reality of being elected in Gaza to be the Official Government. Hamas controls policy and acting as a government can be held to that standard.
I haven't seen American's - even Tea Party rally's - that jumped for joy at the deaths of innocents.
If Obama or our government engaged in an action that was seen as being bad, it does reflect on us as Americans - we as a nation elected him by majority vote.
| 748 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:46:34am |
re: #746 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
There are advantages to that. My manager is usually 300 miles away from me. I do get my share of emails from him checking up on how things are going though.
| 749 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:52:06am |
A couple of comments:
Once again I see the squabbling taking over threads. How incredibly tedious.
These things keep going and going because everybody involved wants to get the last word. So the insults just fly back and forth.
Maybe when you get into this kind of thing, you're thinking that people reading it will see your latest crushing insult and declare you the winner once and for all? Well, if you think this, you're sadly mistaken. In reality, people who aren't involved (and just want to read the comments) see this bickering crap and think everyone involved is an idiot.
Maybe you think I'm going to step in and ban your enemies. But think again. I'm not going to take sides. I see bad behavior on everyone's part in these pissing matches.
Maybe you think I should just see that you're the one who's right, and I should side with you as a result. But do you really think I read this stuff? There are more than 3000 comments posted here on a daily basis. I couldn't read all of them even if I wanted to. I don't know the details of your personal fights with other posters, and it's completely unfair to ME to expect me to step in like Solomon and resolve your problems for you.
And there's simply no way I'm going to waste my time by going back and reading all of these pointless, nasty exchanges to try to figure out who's right and who's wrong. It's not going to happen. I'd rather have a root canal.
So again, I respectfully request that someone here act like a freaking grown-up and just back off when this stuff happens, and stop feeding these pissing matches. If it keeps going out of control, I will take action, because it's a big pain in the ass.
| 750 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:55:46am |
re: #745 HoosierHoops
When Jimmah gets to NY I'm going to use some frequent flyer miles to drop in the City for the Weekend and visit them both...
Somebody on this board needs to take a bite out of the Big Apple sometimes...
Hey - look forward to that, Hoops! Bring lots of booze and weed with you ;-) Party time!
| 752 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:56:13am |
Life is way too short to get all wound up over a political disagreement. People need to let their grudges go before they tear themselves up.
....except Obdicut, that guys a dick.///////////////////////////////
| 753 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 10:56:44am |
re: #752 RogueOne
...except Obdicut, that guys a dick.///
Fuck him. The minute he joined, this board went to shit.
| 754 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:02:21am |
re: #750 Jimmah
Hey - look forward to that, Hoops! Bring lots of booze and weed with you ;-) Party time!
Well I don't smoke but if we could just hit some clubs on the southside I could score us a loaded unregistered hand guns to take along...
/ I think we should do the nightclub music scene in NYC...And take Taxi's all night...If I don't hit the City this summer I'll be on the other side of the world...
We'll have great fun
| 755 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:03:33am |
re: #753 Obdicut
And, because I don't want a dumb joke to be the last thing here:
I agree with Charles, I regret the one time I stirred up crap bad enough for deletions, and I'm embarassed by my behavior. I joined this board because it's well-moderated, and I should always act like it.
I'd like to thank all the cool heads here, like SanFranciscoZionist, Dark Falcon and Hoops, who keep things on an even keel.
| 756 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:06:49am |
re: #754 HoosierHoops
Well I don't smoke but if we could just hit some clubs on the southside I could score us a loaded unregistered hand guns to take along...
/ I think we should do the nightclub music scene in NYC...And take Taxi's all night...If I don't hit the City this summer I'll be on the other side of the world...
We'll have great fun
My pal in London, who spent a summer in New York on exchange many years ago as a student, is always telling me I need to hit the clubs at some point. As for the Taxis - yep - it's a way of life there, as I found out on my last visit :)
| 757 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:09:51am |
re: #754 HoosierHoops
Well I don't smoke but if we could just hit some clubs on the southside I could score us a loaded unregistered hand guns to take along...
/ I think we should do the nightclub music scene in NYC...And take Taxi's all night...If I don't hit the City this summer I'll be on the other side of the world...
We'll have great fun
Cash Cab!!
| 758 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:14:39am |
re: #756 Jimmah
My pal in London, who spent a summer in New York on exchange many years ago as a student, is always telling me I need to hit the clubs at some point. As for the Taxis - yep - it's a way of life there, as I found out on my last visit :)
We'll have fun...A hop skip and a jump from here for a fun day and night in the City...We have to do the Deli for lunch where there is no room to sit..So you stand around and eat...Shopping and a dinner and night clubs downtown.. A cab will get me to the Airport by noon on Sunday..I can post the lizard prayer at the Airport at 10am EST..and be home by 3pm....
/At that point the pain overcomes the fun.. *wink*
| 759 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:19:11am |
re: #758 HoosierHoops
I live in NYC and I'm a diehard foodie. If you want any restaurant recommendations I'd be glad to assist.
| 760 |
Aye Pod Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:20:02am |
re: #755 Obdicut
And, because I don't want a dumb joke to be the last thing here:
I agree with Charles, I regret the one time I stirred up crap bad enough for deletions, and I'm embarassed by my behavior. I joined this board because it's well-moderated, and I should always act like it.
I'd like to thank all the cool heads here, like SanFranciscoZionist, Dark Falcon and Hoops, who keep things on an even keel.
Well, this reinforces my recent decision that sometimes it's best just not to talk to certain people at all when provoked since it just leads to deletions. I'm going to stick to that.
| 761 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:20:13am |
re: #759 drcordell
I live in NYC and I'm a diehard foodie. If you want any restaurant recommendations I'd be glad to assist.
You should meet us for Lunch this summer...
| 762 |
windsagio Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:20:32am |
re: #755 Obdicut
I actually think most of the people involved get some deal of enjoyment out of the wrangling.
The problem really seems to be when it disrupts an otherwise live thread or people start spending alot of time reporting each other or complaining to the boss.
| 763 |
drcordell Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:35:02am |
re: #761 HoosierHoops
You should meet us for Lunch this summer...
Sure, what kind of food are you lizards into? I must say these days I have been on a bit of an asian-centric bender. Vietnamese and szechuan Chinese specifically.
| 764 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:40:30pm |
re: #685 windsagio
well in comparison, do you see many people on here saying the things about Bush that people on here say about Obama? (the extreme things that is)
No. But, for example, 'Bush unneccesarily pushed the nation to war and lied to do so" strikes me as factual. To a Bush booster, it seems like rampant BDS.
| 765 |
Eclectic Infidel Wed, Feb 24, 2010 2:17:39pm |
re: #124 Gus 802
Stupid right wingers keep complaining about the government. The majority of your money goes to paying for insurance, interest rates, late fees, overdraft fees, outrageous mortgage interest, credit cards, overpriced food and goods, rent, etc. You already have a death panel and it's your private insurance company.
I've often thought about this, as I continue to age. What happens if I find myself with a terrible illness and then lose my job or my insurance doesn't cover enough of the expenses? Do I ask my retired parents for help, who are already strapped due to loss of investments? Or my sibling who's own spouse is suffering from cancer with a kid and a mortgage? I don't hate to say it, but I couldn't in good conscience ask for financial support from them, and I know that under our current system of health care, I'm as good as dead if I can't afford treatment.
I just wish the anti-HCR crowd would be honest. I want them to admit that it is irrelevant to them that people are already dying due to lack of affordable health care. For that matter, I'd also appreciate it if the anti-abortion crowd would also admit that not only do they want the State to control woman's uterus, but that they outright oppose state/federal funding for poor families in the pre-and post-natal stages.
Since I'm on a soap box and procrastinating, I'd also like the raging homophobes to admit that the reason they think gays don't deserve legal equality is because they don't consider gays to be real Americans.
Ok. I'll be back.
/just needed to say that. I've been cooped up for too long this week.
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