Video: Climate Change and National Security, Part 2
Here’s Part 2 of environmentalist Peter Sinclair’s look at the national security implications of runaway climate change, featuring interviews with top US military commanders and others.
Here’s Part 2 of environmentalist Peter Sinclair’s look at the national security implications of runaway climate change, featuring interviews with top US military commanders and others.
1 | Fozzie Bear Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:48:24pm |
AL GORE!!!!!
Just getting that out of the way now.
2 | darthstar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:49:12pm |
re: #1 Fozzie Bear
AL GORE!!!
Just getting that out of the way now.
Goredwin's Law (a new phrase I coined in the previous thread).
3 | Obdicut Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:49:25pm |
With their intransigence and opposition to the science of AGW, and the strange isolationism growing around Afghanistan,the GOP have lost any claim to being the better party on the matter of national security.
4 | Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:49:26pm |
In a climate change thread that's almost like posting "first!"
5 | Fozzie Bear Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:50:08pm |
re: #4 Charles
In a climate change thread that's almost like posting "first!"
Hahaha sorry, I couldn't help myself.
6 | RadicalModerate Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:50:18pm |
Well, crap.
This thread just reminded me of what I forgot to buy at the grocery store today.
Charcoal.
7 | alexknyc Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:51:44pm |
I've always thought getting off oil and finding renewable sources of energy at home were issues of national security, not just energy policy.
8 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:57:46pm |
Renewable fuel sources for our military would provide America with the most undeniable advantage on the battle field- the ability to dump their dependence on fuel supply convoys.
9 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:58:10pm |
And I still contend that the renewable energy breakthrough on a mass scale with come via military engineering.
10 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:58:20pm |
Any time you start talking about allocation of resources, it becomes a security concern. Feel like eating and drinking on a regular basis? Might want to look into safeguarding your food and water supply.
11 | Obdicut Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:00:05pm |
re: #9 TampaKnight
I actually think so too. The military is the largest group in the US designed and able to think large-scale, about group welfare and a larger mission. They're the most dis-attached from the profit motive, and the most able to defensibly do large-scale actions without people shouting "socialist" at them.
12 | windsagio Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:00:24pm |
re: #9 TampaKnight
There's a chance, but that's like saying we'll have a revolution in the way chess is played from practicing parcheesi.
13 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:02:46pm |
re: #9 TampaKnight
And I still contend that the renewable energy breakthrough on a mass scale with come via military engineering.
I'd like it if it came sooner rather than later :D
14 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:02:50pm |
re: #12 windsagio
There's a chance, but that's like saying we'll have a revolution in the way chess is played from practicing parcheesi.
Never say never. The internet was the product of the military....I'd say it sparked a "revolution" of sorts.
15 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:03:42pm |
re: #2 darthstar
Goredwin's Law (a new phrase I coined in the previous thread).
ahahahaha yes! We're all going to have to work hard to keep using that whenever Gore pops up in AGW threads.
ARE WE READY?!?!?!
16 | windsagio Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:04:28pm |
re: #14 TampaKnight
I never did say never!
I do think that while military research has led to some great things, directed research is waaay more efficient, especially when set on a focused goal.
As per my example, playing one game DOES make you better at others, just not as fast as working on the game you want ot actually improve :D
17 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:05:26pm |
re: #14 TampaKnight
Never say never. The internet was the product of the military...I'd say it sparked a "revolution" of sorts.
I would say the infrastructure was a product of the military and the application was a product of academic institutions. Without academic institutions, it would still just be a military network. We needed both to make the intertubes great :-)
18 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:05:30pm |
re: #12 windsagio
There's a chance, but that's like saying we'll have a revolution in the way chess is played from practicing parcheesi.
I still say my improvements would make Chess vastly more enjoyable.
19 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:06:05pm |
The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.
20 | windsagio Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:06:20pm |
re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You're probably right, chess makes me crazy ;)
21 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:07:31pm |
I thought the Pentagon was supposed to shut up and do what it is told, not be telling us what we might have to do...this is a disturbing development.
Now get back to securing our access to fossil fuels!
22 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:07:35pm |
re: #19 TampaKnight
The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.
Interesting o_o
Is this a light vehicle or a heavy vehicle?
23 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:07:55pm |
And I can't forget about the Navy's bold ambitions, which also include the first ever 50/50 biofuel F-18 Hornet.
- By 2016, the Navy will sail a "Great Green Fleet" composed of nuclear ships, surface combatants with hybrid electric power systems using biofuel and aircraft flying on only biofuels.
- By 2020, at least half of the DoN's shore-based energy requirements will come from alternative sources and half of total DoN energy consumption will come from alternative sources.
24 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:08:37pm |
re: #22 WindUpBird
Interesting o_o
Is this a light vehicle or a heavy vehicle?
HEAVY!
Initial requirements were for it to be up to 70 tons, which would make it slightly lighter than an Abrams. The Army came to their senses and is now thinking 40-50 tons (and realized the massive cost of making an IFV 70 tons).
25 | Obdicut Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:09:27pm |
re: #17 WindUpBird
One of the best things about the armed forces is that they value science heavily. We won WWII in a large part because of our scientific efforts. We remain a superpower through science. The military knows this, and they know that we beat the pants off the Soviets in science because of how our scientific institutions were structured vs. theirs.
26 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:09:48pm |
re: #24 TampaKnight
HEAVY!
Initial requirements were for it to be up to 70 tons, which would make it slightly lighter than an Abrams. The Army came to their senses and is now thinking 40-50 tons (and realized the massive cost of making an IFV 70 tons).
Keep us posted!
I'm not really a military hardware/gun geek, I'm a car geek. But this is relevant to my interests :D
27 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:10:14pm |
re: #19 TampaKnight
The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.
I think Doc Venture is working on that right now.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: [after examining Dr. Venture's latest invention] What the hell is this thing made out of?
Dr. Venture: [suspiciously] Nothing.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: Come on...
Dr. Venture: All right, fine, I might have used a few unorthodox parts.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: Just tell me one.
Dr. Venture: [mumbling] An... orphan.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: A what?
Dr. Byron Orpheus: [clearing his throat] An orphan?
Dr. Venture: Did you say... an ORPHAN?
Dr. Venture: [weakly] Yeah, a little orphan boy.
Dr. Byron Orpheus: It's powered by a forsaken child?
Dr. Venture: [defensive] Might be, kind of - I mean I didn't use the whole thing!
28 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:10:22pm |
I seem to remember that the Pentagon published a similar report years ago and it was blithely swept under the tabe and forgotten.
29 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:11:40pm |
re: #28 ralphieboy
I seem to remember that the Pentagon published a similar report years ago and it was blithely swept under the tabe and forgotten.
The Pentagon is the best at putting out reports that go nowhere.
30 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:11:58pm |
re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
God now I just want to watch the WHOLE SERIES again!
And then do my awesome Orpheus impression and annoy everyone within 100 yards :D
31 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:13:02pm |
re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Have you ever seen the show Archer? H Jon Benjamin does the voice of the main character, sort of a spy/Bond thing, hilarious.
32 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:14:29pm |
re: #19 TampaKnight
The Army's new Ground Combat Vehicle program has a requirement for renewable energy sustainability, including during combat. I can't wait to see what comes out of that.
Hamsters.
33 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:15:40pm |
re: #30 WindUpBird
God now I just want to watch the WHOLE SERIES again!
And then do my awesome Orpheus impression and annoy everyone within 100 yards :D
I've got Henchman 24 down pat.
34 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:15:42pm |
Actually, this article is out today- the Navy is looking at a way to harness power from space and use the earth's magnetic field to power satellites, instead of relying on fuel.
"A year from now, the U.S. Navy hopes to launch a pair of small satellites that are able to harvest electrons from space and use them and Earth's magnetic field as a propulsion system."
[Link: www.defensenews.com...]
35 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:16:15pm |
37 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:17:12pm |
38 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:17:53pm |
re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I've got Henchman 24 down pat.
YES :D
Henchman 21: Gentlemen, choose your weapons!
Henchman 24: Is this them?
Henchman 21: “Are these they.”
Henchman 24: Who talks like that?!?
39 | Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:18:16pm |
40 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:19:19pm |
re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Only if they use this design
Could work. Especially if the guys inside were on a treadmill along with the hamsters.
Brainstorming: it's what makes America great!
41 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:20:54pm |
42 | Obdicut Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:21:38pm |
re: #39 Charles
Interesting; unlike most international banking conspiracies, this one doesn't seem to blame Jews. However, it is still barkingly crazy.
44 | TampaKnight Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:24:18pm |
Today from Ron Paul's fan site, a guest writer actually ponders if success in Afghanistan would be WORSE for American than defeat.
Utter freaking bullshit.
"Too bad. It's worth a thought. Let's say that Petraeus does return to Washington in what, these days, passes for triumph. The question is: So what? Or rather, could success in Afghanistan prove worse for Americans than failure?"
[Link: www.campaignforliberty.com...]
45 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:24:51pm |
re: #39 Charles
The kooks really are taking over conservative news sites now. Just published at Townhall.com -- an incomprehensible "international banking conspiracy" article by 9/11 Truther and JFK assassination troll Jim Marrs.
Unbelievable.
OMG.
That's the same guy who wrote the best awful conspiracy theory book I've ever come across, Dr. Mary's Monkey.
The 1964 murder of a nationally known cancer researcher sets the stage for this gripping exposé of medical professionals enmeshed in covert government operations over the course of three decades. Following a trail of police records, FBI files, cancer statistics, and medical journals, this revealing book presents evidence of a web of medical secret-keeping that began with the handling of evidence in the JFK assassination and continued apace, sweeping doctors into coverups of cancer outbreaks, contaminated polio vaccine, the arrival of the AIDS virus, and biological weapon research using infected monkeys.
46 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:24:54pm |
re: #39 Charles
I'm sort of glad Jim Marrs types are out there, but theirs is the world of Art Bell and UFO conventions and guys who try and find scary patterns in the Bible.
It's going to be real interesting to see what online American political discourse is like in ten or fifteen years, if we're already seeing Coast to Coast guests being mainstreamed into the conversation.
47 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:25:32pm |
re: #41 TampaKnight
Oooo, he's talking fiat currency. Must be a Paul guy.
48 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:26:05pm |
re: #38 WindUpBird
YES :D
Henchman 21: Gentlemen, choose your weapons!
Henchman 24: Is this them?
Henchman 21: “Are these they.”
Henchman 24: Who talks like that?!?
Henchman 24: Then I'll be all like "I'll spare his life, but only for you sugarpants."
Henchman 21: Dude and then you will have sex! You will be having sex! SEX!
49 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:26:53pm |
re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Henchman 24: I can't believe that whore stole my Stanza!
50 | reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:26:54pm |
re: #45 reine.de.tout
OOPS.
Jim Marrs wrote the forward to that book, the book is by Edward Haslam. I just knew the name sounded familiar.
51 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:28:50pm |
For those who missed it the last time around - or thought they could escape, here's an excellent condensation of a 1'30 TedTalk given last year to the Google brass about LIFTRs - Liquid Flouride Thorium Reactors. Safe, non-polluting, twice as fast to get online as traditional nuclear powered reactors and much less expensive, there's nothing I've discovered about them that's not to like. They totally invalidate the old debate about the wisdom and/or feasibility of going for traditional nuclear power.
52 | Kragar Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:29:59pm |
re: #49 WindUpBird
Henchman 24: I can't believe that whore stole my Stanza!
Henchman 24: We're gonna get our asses kicked. We didn't have a breakfast.
53 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:30:42pm |
re: #51 ryannon
If Google starts making nuclear reactors, that does it, they're the first of the Gibson cyberpunk companies :D Tessier-Ashpool, here we come!
54 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:31:38pm |
re: #51 ryannon
Oh yeah, a condensation means it's only ten minutes long. Like the Reader's Digest, only more intelligent. You owe it to yourself to discover this technology.
55 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:33:05pm |
re: #53 WindUpBird
If Google starts making nuclear reactors, that does it, they're the first of the Gibson cyberpunk companies :D Tessier-Ashpool, here we come!
Google were looking into it, if I'm not mistaken. But they've got a bit too much on their plate as it is.
56 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:34:10pm |
re: #55 ryannon
Google were looking into it, if I'm not mistaken. But they've got a bit too much on their plate as it is.
Google can always get bigger O_O
57 | William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:35:27pm |
re: #53 WindUpBird
Dibs on the Straylight Run...
58 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:40:04pm |
re: #56 WindUpBird
Google can always get bigger O_O
Google will get bigger. I predict a fantastic run for them.
59 | WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:43:05pm |
re: #58 ryannon
Google will get bigger. I predict a fantastic run for them.
I just want to see their Wintermute
60 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:43:14pm |
In the meantime, we could phase out oil within three to four years using LIFTR generated electricity. Somebody (as in Big Oil) must be very unhappy with this idea, otherwise we'd already be building the first pilot plants.
61 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:45:37pm |
re: #59 WindUpBird
I just want to see their Wintermute
You're getting all Philip K. Dicked out. Put down the books and look at the video.
62 | Jack Burton Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:50:13pm |
re: #60 ryannon
In the meantime, we could phase out oil within three to four years using LIFTR generated electricity. Somebody (as in Big Oil) must be very unhappy with this idea, otherwise we'd already be building the first pilot plants.
Most of the petroleum we use is for transportation fuel and also in the creation of several chemicals (mostly plastics). Electric power is generated by coal, hydro, nuclear, and some natural gas. Nuclear is not directly a threat to "Big Oil" unless there is a serious push for all-electric cars. The biggest show stopper for that has been, and probably will be for the next few years anyway, battery issues.
63 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:50:14pm |
I'll be back with my LIFTR rap. Gonna slap you all upside the head with it, just like LVQ with his AGW.
64 | ryannon Tue, Jul 13, 2010 3:53:42pm |
re: #62 ArchangelMichael
Most of the petroleum we use is for transportation fuel and also in the creation of several chemicals (mostly plastics). Electric power is generated by coal, hydro, nuclear, and some natural gas. Nuclear is not directly a threat to "Big Oil" unless there is a serious push for all-electric cars. The biggest show stopper for that has been, and probably will be for the next few years anyway, battery issues.
Those issues are being resolved by leaps and bounds. The moment we've got cheap - or at least competitively-priced electricity, there will be a huge incentive to improve storage methods for transportation applications.
65 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 13, 2010 4:05:30pm |
If you do not believe everything that the scientists are saying about AGW, believe what the admirals, generals and CIA officials will tell you about global destabilization due to climate change. They will be called on to fight wars over this in the coming decades.
Alternative power sources exist. The technologies are viable and deployable. Yet we are not deploying them on a national scale. This is not because we can not deploy them, or even because they cost too much to deploy - particularly if one takes the true costs of oil into account. The true costs include military deployments and security risks, lost livelihoods from spills, loss of arable land, loss of fisheries and massive health impacts - even without mentioning AGW.
We don't deploy cheaper technologies, that would do the job better, and grow our economy drastically - while paying for themselves because of the hold that certain industries have on America and certain pet politicians and propagandists. Break the cycle.
66 | Mad Prophet Ludwig Tue, Jul 13, 2010 4:07:00pm |
re: #39 Charles
The kooks really are taking over conservative news sites now. Just published at Townhall.com -- an incomprehensible "international banking conspiracy" article by 9/11 Truther and JFK assassination troll Jim Marrs.
Unbelievable.
And that is a dog whistle that Jews know to have concerns over. Sooner or later, the far right always comes for us as well.