The Amazing Spider-Man #64 was published in September 1968, and featured a beautifully detailed cover illustration by John Romita. (Is that a Volkswagen just behind Spidey’s right foot?)
The Lizard Collection’s copy is in near-mint (to mint) condition; the paper is so bright and the ink so unfaded, it looks and feels almost like a brand new comic book.
Click to embiggen2 |
Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:20:16pm |
Huh. I don’t know the Vulture. I’m assuming that Stan Lee gave him more than just a wing-slap in his villainous arsenal. I’ll have to look that one up.
| 3 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:21:04pm |
The Vulture was featured in many Spider-Man story lines.
| 5 |
Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:24:26pm |
re: #3 Charles
The Vulture was featured in many Spider-Man story lines.
yeah, reading on Wiki now and it says that the Vulture wins the fight in #64. what the hell…old bald guy with wings beats Spidey? Come on, Stan…
| 6 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:24:48pm |
New page
I really think that everyone should watch this.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Rachel Maddow points out that the right wing media machine has become so large, so well funded, and so isolated from any outside sources of verification, fact checking or questioning, that it is impossible to debunk their lies to a large portion of the public. Worse, politicians who believe and repeat those lies are taking the “new truths” for granted and lending the weight and prestige of the US government to these lies.
“OK Ludwig, we knew this, so what else is new?” you might ask.
What is new is the scope and the closed circuit and self protecting nature of a mass paranoid delusion where word of mouth that fits the group think is the only acceptable truth and there is no way to communicate to these people because they get all of their information from that loop.
What is new is that elected officials in America play along or worse, believe the nonsense themselves.
The delusions and fantasies of the spin doctors and pundits become the “truth.” Since no evidence that would challenge this new “truth” is ever admitted into the closed loop of the right wing media, right wingers act and respond to these fabrications as if they are true. There is a very dangerous and deep consequence to this.
No democracy can function if the voters have no understanding of the realities they are voting on, because their only information is fabricated to begin with and by default, live in a paranoid and delusional dream world. This is a truly large scale effect of the big lie theories of Goebbels. We have some large percentage of our population cut off from any reliable means of communicating facts or challenging the accepted memes of the propagandists.
It is impossible to argue the facts of science because one in the echo chamber will not hear. It is impossible to argue policy because one in the echo chamber is on a war footing over battles that do not exist.
Maddow starts with the lie that it cost 200 million a day and a tenth of the Navy to send the president to India. This is completely untrue. However, the echo chamber of the right self -verifies and it “becomes true” to them. She goes on with example after example of this phenomena.
| 7 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:25:17pm |
re: #2 Aceofwhat?
Huh. I don’t know the Vulture. I’m assuming that Stan Lee gave him more than just a wing-slap in his villainous arsenal. I’ll have to look that one up.
To go by the cartoons he’s an old man who has the power to suck energy/vitality out of people making them older and himself younger, but the energy drain only lasts for so long….
| 8 |
b_sharp Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:27:52pm |
re: #7 jamesfirecat
To go by the cartoons he’s an old man who has the power to suck energy/vitality out of people making them older and himself younger, but the energy drain only lasts for so long…
That’s cheating.
| 9 |
Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:28:17pm |
re: #7 jamesfirecat
To go by the cartoons he’s an old man who has the power to suck energy/vitality out of people making them older and himself younger, but the energy drain only lasts for so long…
yeah, i saw that but i thought he didn’t drain Spidey until #387?
really, i’m out of my element. i had no clue who the guy was until four minutes ago…
| 11 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:28:37pm |
re: #3 Charles
The Vulture was featured in many Spider-Man story lines.
I hadn’t heard of him before. Why do you think he never “made the big time” like other villains.
| 12 |
Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:31:17pm |
re: #11 Dark_Falcon
I hadn’t heard of him before. Why do you think he never “made the big time” like other villains.
like i said, i’m no expert, but at first blush i’d say he’s no Venom…
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:33:48pm |
re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote
We’ve seen that before. Prior to World War II, newspapers were normally openly partisan. The idea of the objective media was in most ways a response to the limited space on the broadcasting airwaves and the licensing rules accompanying that limited space. The greater diversity of media outlets has now obviated the need for perceived objectivity. We’ve gone back, at least in part, to a partisan media.
| 14 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:35:00pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
We’ve seen that before. Prior to World War II, newspapers were normally openly partisan. The idea of the objective media was in most ways a response to the limited space on the broadcasting airwaves and the licensing rules accompanying that limited space. The greater diversity of media outlets has now obviated the need for perceived objectivity. We’ve gone back, at least in part, to a partisan media.
Except that people think their partisan news media outlet is still objective….
| 15 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:39:50pm |
re: #14 jamesfirecat
Except that people think their partisan news media outlet is still objective…
I watch BBC. They have that distant uninvolved take on our news.
| 16 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:40:44pm |
| 17 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:41:24pm |
I use to watch Spiderman all the time when I was a kid. The theme song is a classic.
Spider-man Original Cartoon Theme Song
| 18 |
b_sharp Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:41:36pm |
re: #11 Dark_Falcon
I hadn’t heard of him before. Why do you think he never “made the big time” like other villains.
The wings. He should have had bat wings instead. Then he could have been called a vampire bat.
| 19 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:42:01pm |
re: #15 Rightwingconspirator
I watch BBC. They have that distant uninvolved take on our news.
Not to mention British Accents.
If you watch enough Monty Python anything said in a British Accent instantly becomes funny…
Try it out yourselves at home!
| 20 |
Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:42:32pm |
| 22 |
Aceofwhat? Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:45:22pm |
re: #18 b_sharp
The wings. He should have had bat wings instead. Then he could have been called a vampire bat.
but he’d still be 70 and bald.
although the ink on that cover is extremely bright…the villain may be so-so but the artwork jumps off of the page.
| 23 |
FreedomMoon Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:47:30pm |
If you follow the artistic swoosh it appears as though Spiderman were dropping a good ol’ fashion bow.
| 24 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:52:21pm |
re: #6 LudwigVanQuixote
Fox is one freaking source. One only.
Rachael underestimates her left media brethren due to their own self destructive foibles. Fox does a certain amount of damage, then the left media’s self inflicted wounds do the rest.
Case in point Keith Olbermann. On a couple levels.
Then ABC, CBS, NBC all have the capacity to fact check Fox, each other and the Whitehouse. But no, we have the latest Survivor gossip as news on the channel that carries Survivor instead. We have lightweight news script readers instead of investigative journalists. We have news editors painfully reminded who holds the multi national corporate strings.
Lets blame Fox all we want to for their ills. Fine. But at the very millimeter where we use that to forget the rest of the lamestream media and their responsibilities we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Democracy will not suffer a dysfunctional media any better than a dysfunctional GOP. Both must function well for our nation to thrive.
| 25 |
SteveC Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:53:26pm |
| 26 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:57:32pm |
| 27 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:59:55pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
I fear the consequences are proportionate to the speed though. Back then there was an inherent cooling off period while the news disseminated. Days. Film had to be processed and moved. Now its mere seconds and a cellphone web cam.
| 28 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:00:35pm |
re: #26 Rightwingconspirator
Law And Order UN (United Nations)
Think of the comedic possibilities…
Law and Order: People’s Court. Follow the crimes before they show up in front of Judge Wapner.
| 29 |
SteveC Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:00:40pm |
re: #26 Rightwingconspirator
Law And Order UN (United Nations)
Think of the comedic possibilities…
“In the criminal justice system… aw, the hell with it.”
| 30 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:02:01pm |
| 32 |
Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:04:47pm |
re: #28 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Law and Order: People’s Court. Follow the crimes before they show up in front of Judge Wapner.
Better than ending up in front of Judge Freisler…
| 33 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:08:38pm |
re: #29 SteveC
“In the criminal justice system… aw, the hell with it.”
LOLOLOL
That is exactly what I was trying to think of.
| 34 |
Renaissance_Man Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:10:36pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
We’ve seen that before. Prior to World War II, newspapers were normally openly partisan. The idea of the objective media was in most ways a response to the limited space on the broadcasting airwaves and the licensing rules accompanying that limited space. The greater diversity of media outlets has now obviated the need for perceived objectivity. We’ve gone back, at least in part, to a partisan media.
We have not seen anything like this before. The difference is pervasiveness. Until now, people have not been able to live in a 24-hour artificial world. Now, with the internet, cable news, and all other media sources, the Conservative cult literally lives in an alternate reality. They never, ever, have to interact with the real world as far as information goes. They only interact to vote in it. The only solution I see is deprogramming.
| 35 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:11:54pm |
re: #34 Renaissance_Man
What is this magic power Fox has that so utterly escapes the rest of the media and the Dems?
| 36 |
Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:13:20pm |
re: #35 Rightwingconspirator
What is this magic power Fox has that so utterly escapes the rest of the media and the Dems?
A willingness to be monolithic?
| 37 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:13:43pm |
re: #35 Rightwingconspirator
What is this magic power Fox has that so utterly escapes the rest of the media and the Dems?
A complete and utter lack of scrupales, shame, or morals along with a finatical devotion to all mighty dollar…
| 38 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:17:05pm |
re: #37 jamesfirecat
Well every one is a capitalist, and seeking ratings superiority. They have motive to take Fox down with the facts, yet choose not to much.
| 39 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:17:28pm |
Drama Lama!
Magical animals!
| 40 |
SteveC Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:17:43pm |
re: #35 Rightwingconspirator
What is this magic power Fox has that so utterly escapes the rest of the media and the Dems?
Julie Banderas
Janice Dean
Alisyn Camerota
Lisa Wiehl
Laura Ingraham
Harris Faulkner
… need I go on?
| 41 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:18:56pm |
re: #36 oaktree
Sure but the competition chooses not to engage.
Lest anyone gets the impression-I’m not letting Fox off the hook, I’m pointing out the problem is larger than just Fox.
| 42 |
Renaissance_Man Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:19:08pm |
re: #35 Rightwingconspirator
What is this magic power Fox has that so utterly escapes the rest of the media and the Dems?
A target audience that has the preconceived opinion that all other sources of information are lies, and is willing to believe any information uncritically as long as it coincides with their preconceived opinions. With the internet, this target audience now has the ability to seek out ‘information’ that reinforces their preconceived opinions, regardless of the factual basis thereof. FOX and the rest of the Conservative cult media round out the 24 hour information bubble they live in.
It is not any particular power of the memes being pushed. There’s nothing magic about telling people ridiculous conservative/libertarian ‘facts’ vs liberal ‘facts’. It is simply that a significant minority of the population has been told for years that their revanchist gut feelings are actually pure, sweet truth, and that every contradictory fact out there is a conspiracy against them. Now they have a huge media bubble that reinforces these feelings.
| 43 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:20:00pm |
re: #15 Rightwingconspirator
LOL! If you think so.Contrast and compare.
You’ll be suprised!
| 44 |
Renaissance_Man Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:20:59pm |
re: #38 Rightwingconspirator
Well every one is a capitalist, and seeking ratings superiority. They have motive to take Fox down with the facts, yet choose not to much.
You are right, and this is an execrable failing of the rest of the media. They choose not to expose lies and present facts, because they believe that presenting facts in a reasonable fashion will not sell. They may well be right.
That said, presenting the facts will not diminish the belief of the Conservative cult even a little bit. They are now immune to facts and contradictory arguments.
| 45 |
engineer cat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:22:25pm |
re: #35 Rightwingconspirator
What is this magic power Fox has that so utterly escapes the rest of the media and the Dems?
1. gullible people
2. hurt
3. lies
4. bigger lies
5.
6. profit!
| 46 |
engineer cat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:24:46pm |
re: #44 Renaissance_Man
You are right, and this is an execrable failing of the rest of the media. They choose not to expose lies and present facts, because they believe that presenting facts in a reasonable fashion will not sell. They may well be right.
That said, presenting the facts will not diminish the belief of the Conservative cult even a little bit. They are now immune to facts and contradictory arguments.
We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, whene we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, is possible to carry this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually on a battlefield
George Orwell (1903 - 1950)
| 47 |
Virginia Plain Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:27:22pm |
What’s playing on my iPod now:
| 48 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:27:47pm |
re: #46 engineer dog
Oh well done. Best answer to my question. The point to you sir and the good Mr Orwell. *lifts glass*
| 49 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:28:06pm |
re: #24 Rightwingconspirator
Fox is one freaking source. One only.
Rachael underestimates her left media brethren due to their own self destructive foibles. Fox does a certain amount of damage, then the left media’s self inflicted wounds do the rest.
Case in point Keith Olbermann. On a couple levels.
Then ABC, CBS, NBC all have the capacity to fact check Fox, each other and the Whitehouse. But no, we have the latest Survivor gossip as news on the channel that carries Survivor instead. We have lightweight news script readers instead of investigative journalists. We have news editors painfully reminded who holds the multi national corporate strings.
Lets blame Fox all we want to for their ills. Fine. But at the very millimeter where we use that to forget the rest of the lamestream media and their responsibilities we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Democracy will not suffer a dysfunctional media any better than a dysfunctional GOP. Both must function well for our nation to thrive.
I agree with you and would agree more if it was only Fox. However, the clip discusses the entire closed loop from Limbaugh and the radio guys and the blogsosphere to general internet whackiness to Fox.
The point is that there is a vast enough mutually reinforcing system, from multiple sources that they can and do all cite each other as the truth. Verification never leaves the bubble, because the bubble is large enough to always find ten people agreeing with whatever outrageous outrage of the day - and that standard, the standard of repetition is the new criterion for verification.
| 50 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:29:19pm |
Good night, all.
Be well, and KIND to each other.
We could all use a little help from our friends.
As, KT says, Namaste
| 51 |
Political Atheist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:34:37pm |
re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote
Good point. To tell the truth I’m in the midst of gathering the best reasons to not watch Fox without the grain of salt for my father, who has fallen in for Beck and the rest. But we have talked politics since i could stuff envelopes, so we’ll be getting in to this one at length. A caveat honestly put-Given the task at hand, my frame of mind is that we have let this happen, and we can undo it with moderate effort, and move on to facilitating jobs.
| 52 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:35:38pm |
re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote
I asked you some questions, earlier. It;d be nice, but I am fried tonight. Talk to you later, Sir.
| 53 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:36:21pm |
re: #52 Floral Giraffe
I asked you some questions, earlier. It;d be nice, but I am fried tonight. Talk to you later, Sir.
Ohh I’m so sorry I missed it. I have been alternating between work and posting all day. Did you mail me?
| 54 |
ClaudeMonet Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:41:45pm |
| 55 |
ClaudeMonet Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:44:30pm |
re: #37 jamesfirecat
A complete and utter lack of scrupales, shame, or morals along with a finatical devotion to all mighty dollar…
True. Add to that the masochistic tendency of the Left and Center to put the maintenance of so-called purity over that of defeating the competition. They do not believe that they can fight dirty, win, then a la Cincinnatus put down their swords and return to the plow.
| 56 |
Feline Fearless Leader Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:48:34pm |
| 57 |
Tigger2005 Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:50:33pm |
re: #42 Renaissance_Man
There’s one other aspect to this that I think is not obvious, but is nevertheless important. In the past, people were more grounded in reality. Death was a part of life. Most people lived on farms. They knew where their food came from. They understood the basics upon which any nation, any civilization is founded.
The right wingers today are almost completely disconnected from these realities (to be fair, so are most of the rest of us). They claim to be the “grownups,” the ones who “face reality,” while everyone else is living in a fantasy world. Yet in their world, we can (for example) continue to use fossil fuels and other limited natural resources at an ever-increasing rate and somehow never run out…and we can continually pour pollutants into the air, land, and water without consequences because “God gave us this stuff to use and he wouldn’t let it hurt us.” (Then you have the ones who might admit we’ll eventually run out of fossil fuels, but “our Western science will then quickly develop new sources of energy, once it makes economic sense to devote huge sums to developing them”—as all the while they’re working to destroy scientific literacy.)
Our Wal-Mart/McDonalds/video game/TV society just makes it so EASY for people to disconnect themselves from reality. They may be vaguely aware that all our technology and conveniences are the result of centuries of painstaking scientific research (with many breakthroughs coming about by “accident”). They may be vaguely aware of things like ecosystems and the chains that stretch from fields, forests, lakes, streams, and oceans to the grocery aisles. But these things are no longer real and solid for them like they were up until a few decades ago.
| 58 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:51:13pm |
re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
Yes Sir.
The crisis is over, I’m now struggling with the day to day.
Talk to you later.
Sleepy times now.
*smooch*
| 59 |
Virginia Plain Mon, Nov 8, 2010 8:55:54pm |
This just came on:
| 60 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:03:12pm |
re: #54 ClaudeMonet
“…is revoked.”
Name the movie.
Any cheesy 80’s buddy cop movie.
In this case, Lethal Weapon 2
| 62 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:14:28pm |
Any lizards interested in rendering a second opinion for me? In the Beck thread from today, there was a running dialog between a new poster on one side and Obdi and myself on the other.
I am getting a massive Bagua vibe off of him. Am I wrong?
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:16:36pm |
Tre: #58 Floral Giraffe
Yes Sir.
The crisis is over, I’m now struggling with the day to day.
Talk to you later.
Sleepy times now.
*smooch*
Sleep well, Floral. No matter what, don’t hesitate to email if its something you think I’d know about or if you need something done in Chicago. If I can help, I will.
| 64 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:17:57pm |
re: #62 LudwigVanQuixote
Any lizards interested in rendering a second opinion for me? In the Beck thread from today, there was a running dialog between a new poster on one side and Obdi and myself on the other.
I am getting a massive Bagua vibe off of him. Am I wrong?
Missed it. Could you link back to one?
| 65 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:20:40pm |
| 66 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:22:05pm |
| 67 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:22:22pm |
re: #65 jamesfirecat
Lethal Weapon … 3?
1 - Vietnam vets turned heroin dealers
2 - South African gun runners
3 - crooked ex cops
4 - Chinese gangs
| 68 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:22:24pm |
re: #64 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
he just responded again.
| 69 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:24:52pm |
re: #66 LudwigVanQuixote
Just look at
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
I instantly dislike anyone who uses the term hilarious as much as he did.
Definately a sock feel to the familiarity.
| 71 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:26:37pm |
re: #67 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
1 - Vietnam vets turned heroin dealers
2 - South African gun runners
3 - crooked ex cops
4 - Chinese gangs
Damn, all I knew for sure was that three was the one with like the teflon coated bullets and the ‘Now we’ve got a relationship we can build on” line after a guy is dumped into wet cement….
| 72 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:28:11pm |
That was the last straw. Finished with that one.
| 73 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:30:29pm |
Looks like another spew earns a banning. I’ll go put the troll carcass on ice till tomorrow.
| 74 |
Super-ego Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:30:35pm |
Seeing this comic just gave me an idea.
We read childrens books to our three year old (four this month) son every night. Lately he’s been asking for our books to look at after we are done. About six at a time. No pictures, just words. He looks through them and “reads” to himself. Then neatly stacks them in pairs and falls asleep.
I am going to the comic shop tomorrow to pic up some super-hero reading material. He will enjoy the art work.
| 75 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:33:03pm |
re: #69 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
I instantly dislike anyone who uses the term hilarious as much as he did.
Definately a sock feel to the familiarity.
Old Sock Week. I can’t tell them all apart, but more like to be Bagua that any of the less articulate ones.
Is there a reason why we care?
| 76 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:34:06pm |
re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist
Old Sock Week. I can’t tell them all apart, but more like to be Bagua that any of the less articulate ones.
Is there a reason why we care?
Something to do.
| 77 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:37:13pm |
Finshed New Vegas with the independent NV option. Didn’t wrap up all the story lines. Going to go for the Caesar option next time through.
| 78 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:43:54pm |
re: #72 Charles
That was the last straw. Finished with that one.
Must have been a fun flameout. Don’t you know the blog warriors are now calling themselves blog warriors now and they are well at war with us? Seriously, that is how they are writing it.
It has gotten more deluded than usual. Cheeto crusts with a mission and all.
At least you keep them off the streets.
| 79 |
Ojoe Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:45:47pm |
Bizarre to see brick chimneys and chimney pots on the top of skyscrapers.
| 80 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:45:55pm |
re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote
Must have been a fun flameout. Don’t you know the blog warriors are now calling themselves blog warriors now and they are well at war with us? Seriously, that is how they are writing it.
It has gotten more deluded than usual. Cheeto crusts with a mission and all.
At least you keep them off the streets.
You can have their keyboards when you pry it from their pudgy, cheetos encrusted hands!
| 81 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:46:45pm |
re: #75 SanFranciscoZionist
Old Sock Week. I can’t tell them all apart, but more like to be Bagua that any of the less articulate ones.
Is there a reason why we care?
But SFZ don’t you realize they are at war with us! It is an existential threat! I feel so threatened!
Actually, the reason to care is that the more articulate ones derail interesting conversations with the same old crap over and over. It’s good to clean them up for the sake of actual posters not wasting time on them.
| 82 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:47:50pm |
Feel good story of the day…
Westboro Baptist Church Protesters Meet Their Match
The small town of Weston, Missouri would not allow the family of one of their own who fell in battle in Afghanistan, to be disturbed by members of the Westboro Baptist Church and Reverend Phelps, who planned to protest at the funeral. Nearly half of the town showed up with flags, patriotic music, and a passion to shield Sgt. First Class C. J. Sadell’s family as they laid him to rest.
Residents of the small town of Weston turned out carrying flags, one large enough to shield the family’s view of the protesters. They arrived early, taking up all of the nearby parking places and staking claim to the corner where the protesters had gotten a permit to set up their protest. Half of the supporters formed a barrier around the funeral home, making sure that the family would not be disturbed .
| 83 |
Super-ego Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:52:44pm |
re: #82 NJDhockeyfan
I feel sorry for the children of the Westboro church.
| 84 |
sizzleRI Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:53:49pm |
re: #82 NJDhockeyfan
Always happy to see better speech defeat awful speech.
| 85 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 8, 2010 9:56:13pm |
re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote
Must have been a fun flameout. Don’t you know the blog warriors are now calling themselves blog warriors now and they are well at war with us? Seriously, that is how they are writing it.
It has gotten more deluded than usual. Cheeto crusts with a mission and all.
At least you keep them off the streets.
I think it’s Chen Zhen who got that one started, saying that he is the “Kung Fu Master” from the “Flame Warriors” website. So, for fun, I present some of the other Stalkers and their characters:
Rodan: Troglodyte
Buzzsawmonkey: Evil Clown
Taxfreekiller: Centurion
Princess Natasha: Jerk
Feel free to add your own.
| 87 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:05:16pm |
re: #82 NJDhockeyfan
I dislike that hateful cult, and pity their spawn.
| 91 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:12:35pm |
| 92 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:14:53pm |
Those are funny characterizations, but I prefer the real world view of them:
Aging and so pathetic, that they think endless insulting and plotting about bloggers they don’t like from a site they claimed to hate and were banned from years ago actually counts as something manly.
They are so pathetic that they have to make multiple accounts to agree with themselves to look like they might be popular and well regarded somewhere.
Think about how pathetic you really have to be to do that.
Take snork, AKA little pony, AKA larry, AKA earth 2 moonbat AKA iapyx, for an example.
He makes a post as one of them and comments on it as another to make it seem like others agree with the first post. And all of his posts are lashing out at someone or something. He may not know a damned thing about science, or history or much of anything, but he will write endlessly as an “authority” even after making blunders that would cause a Freshman to blush, and if called on them even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Do you remember his claims that parts of the Golan were flat as Kansas after claiming that footage of a Swedish missile test was actually an Israeli attack on a Syrian tank column?
Dude has got to be one of the most insecure snots ever. The man is in his 50’s for crying out loud! To be that old and that pathetic really means there is no hope for him.
Of course, that applies to all of them but there is variation in their forms of pathetic and how they overcompensate for the endless feeling of victimhood.
Why else would they fixate on us! We victimized them of course by not going for their deluded and hateful crap. We became yet another oppressor to them. But, we were also once their limited social outlet. Now vengeance must be sered and these “brave” souls are fighting th only way they know how - by throwing tantrums on the net.
| 93 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:15:26pm |
re: #90 SpaceJesus
that being said, i liked civ 4 better.
Did you see my nuke responses to you?
I hope I was useful.
| 94 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:23:10pm |
re: #89 SpaceJesus
I’ve given it a spin
Make me jealous that I can neither afford the game right now, nor a rig that can run it.
Or trash it. I’m just interested in what other Civ enthusiasts here think of it.
| 95 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:33:12pm |
re: #94 Slumbering Behemoth
I pre-ordered the thing and played it all kinds for about 3 weeks. The AI needs major work.
| 96 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:34:47pm |
re: #93 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah I got it, thanks a lot. I got reading to do.
I’m of the opinion that nuclear is a good option, it’s just that I’ve also read Greepeace articles that say it wont do any good to curb GhG emissions and that it is too expensive and takes to long to implement.
| 97 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:35:28pm |
re: #95 SpaceJesus
The AI needs major work.
Always true of many games. If I may pick your brain, in what areas/ways do you think the AI need improvement?
| 98 |
Kragar (Antichrist ) Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:37:21pm |
re: #96 SpaceJesus
Yeah I got it, thanks a lot. I got reading to do.
I’m of the opinion that nuclear is a good option, it’s just that I’ve also read Greepeace articles that say it wont do any good to curb GhG emissions and that it is too expensive and takes to long to implement.
You are aware the original founder of Greenpeace left the organization precisely because he felt they were completely wrong to about nuclear development?
| 99 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:38:02pm |
re: #97 Slumbering Behemoth
Too exploitable.
The AI doesn’t take advantage of the huge benefit city states give you. Hell, you can win the game by focusing entirely on befriending maritime city states pretty much.
Also, the combat is one unit per tile, and the AI has no idea how to really attack or defend using this new restriction.
| 100 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:39:57pm |
re: #96 SpaceJesus
Yeah I got it, thanks a lot. I got reading to do.
I’m of the opinion that nuclear is a good option, it’s just that I’ve also read Greepeace articles that say it wont do any good to curb GhG emissions and that it is too expensive and takes to long to implement.
The answer is that nuclear is not a panacea in of itself. However, I am of the opinion that it is a major part of dealing with large urban areas that are simply not going to get enough power easily from other sources.
| 101 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:40:15pm |
re: #98 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Saw that on a wikipedia entry actually. They seem completely opposed to nuclear power and drop all kinds of damning statistics about how it won’t benefit the environment. Thing is, I don’t know enough about it to know if their stats are bogus or not.
Also, watching the nonsense going on in Germany right now about the new nuke site is pretty hilarious.
| 102 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:43:10pm |
re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote
Why not go with it 100%? I mean, are these reactors that expensive in and of themselves? or are they expensive because lobbyists have made them expensive?
Also, is fission-based a better way to go if one day we succeed in harnessing fusion-based methods for power?
| 103 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:47:09pm |
re: #99 SpaceJesus
Too exploitable.
What difficulty levels have your tried?
The AI doesn’t take advantage of the huge benefit city states give you. Hell, you can win the game by focusing entirely on befriending maritime city states pretty much.
A new element in this version, which I find interesting. Sounds like it’s borked though. I was a bit disappointed to hear they removed the religion aspect in this version. Could be a real cash cow in IV if you played it right.
Also, the combat is one unit per tile, and the AI has no idea how to really attack or defend using this new restriction.
No more “Stacks of Doom”. The new combat system sounded very intriguing, but if the AI does not use it well, I imagine it could get real boring, real quick.
Any other impressions?
| 104 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 10:52:04pm |
re: #103 Slumbering Behemoth
Any other impressions?
I like diplomacy better this time around as its much less predictable.
Also, it has the potential to be better than civ 4, it’s just not there yet.
Hell, civ 4 was buggy and sucked too when it first came out.
| 105 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 11:05:22pm |
re: #104 SpaceJesus
Hell, civ 4 was buggy and sucked too when it first came out.
Ha ha ha! I bought IV right when it came out, too much of a fan/sucker when it comes to the series.
Also bought both expansions soon after they came out. Then after some time, they released the whole shebang in a “Gold Edition” bundle for $39.99. Forty bucks for what I basically paid $120 to get, and working right out of the box.
This time around, I have resolved to wait a year or so until they release their “Civilization V: Ultimate Gold Ballbuster Blow Your Brains Out It’s So Fucking Awesome Edition” before I buy.
BTW, one more question: Are the Random Events/Quests from IV still in? Are they handled in a similar way, or are the quests strictly given by the City States?
| 106 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 11:09:40pm |
re: #104 SpaceJesus
Aw crap, I forgot to ask about this:
I like diplomacy better this time around as its much less predictable.
By “much less predictable”, do you mean less likely to completely disregard strong trade relations and former “mutual good will” in order to declare war on you because you have a piece of lint on your shirt?
| 107 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Nov 8, 2010 11:14:26pm |
re: #106 Slumbering Behemoth
AI players you cooperate with for thousands of years might turn on you on a dime if you are hurting (which is hard because losing wars takes skill). The AI is more opportunistic and isn’t governed by + or - diplomatic events anymore.
Random events are out, and have been replaced by city states asking you to do stuff. It almost doesn’t even matter if you do them or not, because it’s way more effective just to give them gold every now and then to make them love you.
Also, production is weak in Civ 5. It’s way better to just buy improvement and units. Focus entirely on gold generation and you will win no matter what.
| 108 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Nov 8, 2010 11:20:08pm |
re: #107 SpaceJesus
Damn, damn, and damn again. :(
Thanks for answering my questions on this, bro. Much better than reading any web review, IMO. I feel better about my decision to wait on this until it hits bargain bin prices.
/can’t we just have a SMACII?
| 110 |
AlexRogan Tue, Nov 9, 2010 12:42:40am |
re: #109 Gus 802
Cool video I just cam across.
Space Shuttle Main Engine (SSME) Startup Sequence
[Video]
I don’t care who you are…if anyone doesn’t think that this shit is even just a little bit cool, there’s something wrong with you ;-P
| 111 |
HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 9, 2010 12:55:50am |
re: #110 talon_262
I don’t care who you are…if anyone doesn’t think that this shit is even just a little bit cool, there’s something wrong with you ;-P
What kind of country do we live in when the Government can give away free cheese but can’t afford to shoot stuff into space?
/
| 112 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:05:21am |
re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote
Verification never leaves the bubble, because the bubble is large enough to always find ten people agreeing with whatever outrageous outrage of the day - and that standard, the standard of repetition is the new criterion for verification.
Repetition is the mother of retention.
| 113 |
harlequinade Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:13:57am |
re: #24 Rightwingconspirator
Fox is one freaking source. One only.
Rachael underestimates her left media brethren due to their own self destructive foibles. Fox does a certain amount of damage, then the left media’s self inflicted wounds do the rest.
Case in point Keith Olbermann. On a couple levels.
Then ABC, CBS, NBC all have the capacity to fact check Fox, each other and the Whitehouse. But no, we have the latest Survivor gossip as news on the channel that carries Survivor instead. We have lightweight news script readers instead of investigative journalists. We have news editors painfully reminded who holds the multi national corporate strings.
Lets blame Fox all we want to for their ills. Fine. But at the very millimeter where we use that to forget the rest of the lamestream media and their responsibilities we shoot ourselves in the foot.
Democracy will not suffer a dysfunctional media any better than a dysfunctional GOP. Both must function well for our nation to thrive.
I’ve not got to the end of the thread, so I apologise if this comment has already been made.
The problem with all the other news shows fact checking Fox is that Fox becomes the news. Which then pushes eyeballs _to_ Fox to see it in action.
And it’s not a closed system. Fox makes something up/misreports something. They do the “Some people say” thing that makes it from opinion into news.
As Fox starts to report it - and the echo chamber around Fox - the question is asked “Why are we the only ones talking about this.” which forces other news stations to talk about it.
But once the lie is out there, that gets the coverage. What do you remember more - the $200 million/day and 34 warships story, or the Pentagon coming out and saying “That’s just not true.” Because I know which story got more coverage.
| 114 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:18:03am |
re: #110 talon_262
Mmmm … was that good for you? How about a smoke?
Not as sexy but i’ll have to post my pics of a tour of Canaveral (long ago) somewhere and post the link.
| 115 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:35:17am |
re: #113 harlequinade
There was a time when no news organization would allow such BS to be broadcast for fear of the damage it would do to the brand.
But modern news networks are very clear on how little the facts matter, and if lies make a better story than mundane facts, then the lies will win every time.
| 116 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:36:59am |
re: #101 SpaceJesus
Also, watching the nonsense going on in Germany right now about the new nuke site is pretty hilarious.
Germany has earned a lot of money exporting nuclear technology to other nations. It only seems fitting that it should accept some of their waste as compensation…
| 117 |
Bob Dillon Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:41:36am |
re: #109 Gus 802
Way cool …. but:
It was the largest, most powerful rocket ever built and, having served as the launch platform for the Apollo manned moon mission, probably qualifies as the most famous rocket as well.
The Saturn V’s task may have been the most monumental in a clearly audacious project. While earlier rockets struggled to put even small capsules into Earth orbit, the Apollo program needed to heft a complex package consisting of a Command Module, a lunar lander and a capsule capable of returning home after a round trip of more than a half-million miles.
It took more than a decade of debate to come up with the final design of the Saturn V and the Apollo spacecraft it would blast into the heavens. Research on a 1 million-pound thrust engine actually began in 1953. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) gave approval to the Saturn development program on New Year’s Eve, 1959.
A team led by German-born Wernher von Braun at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., came up with a 3-stage design that stood 363 ft. tall—60 ft. taller than the Statue of Liberty—when the Apollo spacecraft was sitting on the launchpad. When fully loaded with propellants, the rocket weighed 6.2 million pounds. It had more than 3 million parts. At full throttle, its five first-stage engines produced a thundering 7.6 million pounds of thrust at liftoff. All told, a Saturn V churned out more power than 85 Hoover Dams or, if you prefer, enough energy to light up New York City for 75 minutes.
| 118 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:41:57am |
btw, one of the major Uranium trading firms in Germany is called NUKEM
[Link: www.nukeminc.com…]
NUKEM ‘til they glow!!!
| 119 |
harlequinade Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:44:39am |
re: #115 ralphieboy
I think that’s what is so shocking to me. I grew up with the BBC which always seemed to have that yardstick of truth.
I cannot understand how there is a news service that blatantly lies.
| 120 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:52:13am |
re: #119 harlequinade
Because there was a time when a news service ran the risk of losing viewers/listeners/readers if it gained the reputation of being inaccurate. That is simply no longer the case.
| 121 |
Varek Raith Tue, Nov 9, 2010 2:00:07am |
re: #118 ralphieboy
btw, one of the major Uranium trading firms in Germany is called NUKEM
[Link: www.nukeminc.com…]
NUKEM ‘til they glow!!!
They have to be an evil cabal bent on world domination with a name like that!
| 124 |
harlequinade Tue, Nov 9, 2010 2:41:27am |
re: #120 ralphieboy
So - seeing that they have the largest viewership in cable news - how is this rectified?
Is it?
| 125 |
harlequinade Tue, Nov 9, 2010 2:42:01am |
re: #123 Jadespring
Go back to bed. And if anyone asks, tell them “Adam said it was OK,” and send them to me…
| 126 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:05:57am |
re: #124 harlequinade
Like I said, accuracy no longer matters, fairness and balance are just marketing slogans.
| 127 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:19:05am |
re: #124 harlequinade
So - seeing that they have the largest viewership in cable news - how is this rectified?
Is it?
Mandatory voting.
Seriously - it is the simplest, and also coincidentally the most effective solution. Cults, especially cults with a nihilistic and hate-based worldview such as the modern Conservative cult, will only ever be a minority. This last election and the enormous failures of the GOP and the Teahadis has proved that. Mandatory voting immediately nullifies their potential impact, because making an alternate reality that encompasses a significant majority of the population is beyond even the power of FOX and the cult media.
Mandatory voting does not necessarily make a population more educated, though it usually does. It does however minimise the impact of small, passionate, extremist movements and moderate elections, and the modern Conservative cult is the very definition of a small, passionate, extremist movement.
It is also the easiest large change ever to sell to the American electorate. Voting is our right, won by centuries of blood and sweat. It is more than a right, it’s a civic duty. Mandatory voting ensures that ‘the people have spoken’, which is the current laughable talking point that the wingnuts parrot. It engages all people in our government, by the people, of the people, and for the people. Insert other feelgood slogan.
Mandatory voting is desperately needed in the US. It would cure many of the political ills you have here overnight, and it would do it without heavy-handed intervention or exploitable ‘fixes’.
| 128 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:28:16am |
re: #127 Renaissance_Man
Unfortunately, we also have the right to remain uninvolved and the right not to vote.
The only change I would support is a suspension of the right to complain about government for those who have not voted…
| 129 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:32:13am |
I remember the days before there was such an entity as Fox News.
Fairness and balanced-ness did not exist then, either.
| 130 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:34:18am |
re: #128 ralphieboy
Unfortunately, we also have the right to remain uninvolved and the right not to vote.
People don’t have the right to not pay taxes or not educate their kids. Quite honestly, I find the fact that a small number of reactionary idiots will complain about their ‘right to not vote’ being taken away, or that the gubmint is taking total control of everyone’s lives, to be a laughable and irrelevant one. Mandatory voting is necessary to make sure the opinions of stupid people like them are not disproportionately influential.
| 131 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:37:09am |
re: #129 Taqyia2Me
I remember the days before there was such an entity as Fox News.
Fairness and balanced-ness did not exist then, either.
I no not expect expect news agencies to to be completely neutral point of view. This is why we have freedom of the press and a number of agencies to choose from in obtaining information.
And I am aware that is simply not possible to air every side of every story. But I expect a minimum of accuracy in the facts that these agencies find worth reporting.
| 132 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:37:46am |
re: #130 Renaissance_Man
Does this include the right to vote for “none of the above”?
| 134 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:40:29am |
re: #132 ralphieboy
Does this include the right to vote for “none of the above”?
To fix the extremely poor binary system of US politics would need preferential voting, which is an entirely different, though related, argument and set of ideas. It can cause a few more problems, but preferential voting would also cure many of the ills in the US political system. I firmly believe the US needs to have both, but mandatory voting at an absolute minimum.
| 135 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:44:06am |
re: #134 Renaissance_Man
Getting the entirety of the eligible voters to vote (and the entirety of ineligible voters to not vote) would be akin to achieving infinity.
| 136 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:46:44am |
re: #135 Taqyia2Me
Getting the entirety of the eligible voters to vote (and the entirety of ineligible voters to not vote) would be akin to achieving infinity.
It might be difficult, but not as hard as you think. The nations that have mandatory voting regularly achieve voter turnout of above 95%. And I refuse to believe that the people in these nations are more civic-minded than Americans. Quite the opposite, in fact.
| 137 |
RogueOne Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:50:56am |
re: #136 Renaissance_Man
It might be difficult, but not as hard as you think. The nations that have mandatory voting regularly achieve voter turnout of above 95%. And I refuse to believe that the people in these nations are more civic-minded than Americans. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99% of the vote and the old soviets won with 99.5%. What we really need is a good dictatorial system of government that way we don’t really have to think about anything. It would solve that whole foxnews “problem” too.
| 138 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:51:56am |
re: #136 Renaissance_Man
It might be difficult, but not as hard as you think. The nations that have mandatory voting regularly achieve voter turnout of above 95%. And I refuse to believe that the people in these nations are more civic-minded than Americans. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Of course, a well informed and participatory electorate is as laudable a goal as there exists!
| 139 |
RogueOne Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:57:01am |
re: #138 Taqyia2Me
Voting allows the sheep to believe they have some control over the wolves. It’s a scam. Quit buying into their rigged system…DOWN WITH THE MAN!//
| 140 |
laZardo Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:58:00am |
/also, why do people still call it Burma? Or is it just a British thing?
| 141 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 3:58:10am |
I have less of an issue with FOX News and their editorial stance.
All news outlets are biased on way or the other. News media are supposed to skeptical and they are supposed to be critical of whomever is in office. That is their job. I have said before I don’t care if they call Obama a Socialist, Communist or closet ornithologist.
What they cannot do is lie about the President. They cannot cultivate views that are inherently dishonest or deliberately insulting. FOX News has walked a fine line from the beginning and now they are being called on it.
Chris Matthews referred to Sarah Palin as an ‘imbecile’ and derisively asked if she had ever read a book . That is equally as revolting as anything FOX ugliness has promulgated.
In the end though, Americans want to hear what ideas Washington has and how that will impact their lives for the better. They are tired of one side vilifying the other with no positive message.
That is why the Tea Party has been successful, for better or worse. At least they are talking about governance while all their opposition talks about is ‘how stupid they are’ or ‘how evil they are’. Criticism without offering anything constructive is a fools’s game. Unless and until the conversation changes the 2012 results will mirror the results we just saw.
Americans want a leadership that reflects better ideas. They don’t want top be told one group or another are better people, and for that reason enough deserve their vote.
| 142 |
RogueOne Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:01:03am |
re: #140 laZardo
/also, why do people still call it Burma? Or is it just a British thing?
Not just a british thing…
Mike Tyson: I Want to Live in a Hut in Burma
[Link: www.nbcwashington.com…]
| 144 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:05:42am |
re: #141 researchok
That is why the Tea Party has been successful, for better or worse. At least they are talking about governance while all their opposition talks about is ‘how stupid they are’ or ‘how evil they are’.
Are you being serious?
Your contention is
A) The Tea Party people don’t talk about how stupid or evil their opposition is, and
B) ALL their opposition talks about is how stupid and evil they are?
Are you really thinking this through?
I oppose the Tea Party. I’m part of that opposition. I talk about governance, I don’t talk about them as being stupid, I do think that much of what they stand for is wrong as hell.
Much of the criticism of the Tea Party people, actually, is because their lack of interest in the actual ways of governance.
| 145 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:07:00am |
re: #144 Obdicut
Until they are sworn into office, the Tea Party can continue to criticize incumbents without having to produce a record of policy decisions themselves.
| 146 |
rwdflynavy Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:08:44am |
re: #145 ralphieboy
Until they are sworn into office, the Tea Party can continue to criticize incumbents without having to produce a record of policy decisions themselves.
Kinda like all people not sworn in to office, just more crazier.
| 147 |
rwdflynavy Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:10:10am |
Also,
Good Morning Lizards!!
Lettin’ the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier ‘n puttin’ it back in.
- Will Rogers
| 148 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:12:52am |
re: #145 ralphieboy
Sure. But they often don’t even talk about those policy decision, or governance, in any specific or accurate way. They talk about cutting spending while never specifying what they want to cut.
Rubio was one of the biggest examples of this:
[Link: wonkroom.thinkprogress.org…]
He also proposed that every discretionary spending program be sunsetted every ten years. That’d be great, except that discretionary spending programs, by their very nature, get renewed every year.
I guess that can count as talking about governance, but it’s not governance as it actually exists in the United States.
| 149 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:16:44am |
re: #144 Obdicut
Are you being serious?
Your contention is
A) The Tea Party people don’t talk about how stupid or evil their opposition is, and
B) ALL their opposition talks about is how stupid and evil they are?
Are you really thinking this through?
I oppose the Tea Party. I’m part of that opposition. I talk about governance, I don’t talk about them as being stupid, I do think that much of what they stand for is wrong as hell.
Much of the criticism of the Tea Party people, actually, is because their lack of interest in the actual ways of governance.
I am being very serious and the proof is in the pudding.
Arguing over who had bigger rallies didn’t translate into votes.
As you know, I also do not like the Tea Party. I have made that clear many times. What I said was the Tea Party was attractive to many people because they talked about governance. Their opponents can say they are all racists and only fixated on racist immigration policies, an so, but in they end that just isn’t true.
Americans are not racists and they care about taxes, governance and spending. The Tea party offered (in my view a flawed) vision and their opponents did not.
Calling the other side idiots and racists and evil does not transl;ate into votes. Clearly.
| 150 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:21:22am |
re: #149 researchok
I am being very serious and the proof is in the pudding.
So you really, really, really think that everyone opposed to the Tea Parties simply called them stupid and evil. Nobody pointed out, as I did, that their ideas for governance were faulty, or that they appeared to lack understanding of constitutional principles, or anything of that nature? That just didn’t happen?
Arguing over who had bigger rallies didn’t translate into votes.
As you know, I also do not like the Tea Party. I have made that clear many times. What I said was the Tea Party was attractive to many people because they talked about governance.
They also engaged in demonization of their opponents in exactly the same way that your’e castigating those who opposed them of doing to them. Do you seriously think that they didn’t?
Americans are not racists and they care about taxes, governance and spending.
Some Americans are racists, in fact. And some Americans are highly religious or otherwise socially conservative and care about those issues as well.
The Tea party offered (in my view a flawed) vision and their opponents did not.
Who are you defining as their opponents?
Calling the other side idiots and racists and evil does not transl;ate into votes. Clearly.
You really, really are sticking with the contention that everyone opposing the Tea Party didn’t in any way make substantiative criticism of them— for example, that Coombs didn’t have a long debate with O’Donnell where he pointed out where her understanding of the first amendment was flawed and talked about the importance to governance of the establishment clause?
That just didn’t happen?
| 151 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:21:59am |
re: #141 researchok
In the end though, Americans want to hear what ideas Washington has and how that will impact their lives for the better. They are tired of one side vilifying the other with no positive message.That is why the Tea Party has been successful, for better or worse. At least they are talking about governance while all their opposition talks about is ‘how stupid they are’ or ‘how evil they are’. Criticism without offering anything constructive is a fools’s game. Unless and until the conversation changes the 2012 results will mirror the results we just saw.
Americans want a leadership that reflects better ideas. They don’t want top be told one group or another are better people, and for that reason enough deserve their vote.
I think we are not looking at the same people.
I see a Tea Party that vilifies almost everyone outside their political views with no positive message included, using inaccurate epithets and subtle threats. I see a Tea Party that tells their voters that certain politicians are, in fact, better people, without any substantive reason or argument, and that the opposition are almost subhuman.
I see a Tea Party that criticises health care reform with inaccuracies, strawmen and vague scary language, without offering any alternative plan of governance to correct the problems.
I see a Tea Party that criticises government spending by Democrats, without offering any substantive ideas to curb government spending.
I see a Tea Party that has the idea that they pay too much taxes, an idea entirely baseless in fact.
I see a Tea Party whose response to climate change, a global issue of enormous import, is to criticise a former American politician and the idea of science in general.
Finally, I see a Tea Party that failed spectacularly in the last election, for which I am very thankful.
Americans may indeed want a leadership with better ideas. This segment of Americans that you refer to do not. They want a leadership that reflects their gut feelings, fears and hates. The ideas or lack thereof of that leadership are irrelevant to them.
| 152 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:27:26am |
re: #151 Renaissance_Man
Apparently the Tea Party opposing Ralph Ellison because he’s a Muslim (and lying about his having ties to terrorist) is talking about governance.
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
| 153 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:31:30am |
re: #152 Obdicut
Apparently the Tea Party opposing Ralph Ellison because he’s a Muslim (and lying about his having ties to terrorist) is talking about governance.
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
Making up stories about death panels = sound ideas about governance.
Actually enacting large-scale health care reform = demonising and attacking the opposition, not governance.
| 154 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:32:00am |
re: #150 Obdicut
So you really, really, really think that everyone opposed to the Tea Parties simply called them stupid and evil. Nobody pointed out, as I did, that their ideas for governance were faulty, or that they appeared to lack understanding of constitutional principles, or anything of that nature? That just didn’t happen?
Arguing over who had bigger rallies didn’t translate into votes.
They also engaged in demonization of their opponents in exactly the same way that your’e castigating those who opposed them of doing to them. Do you seriously think that they didn’t?
Some Americans are racists, in fact. And some Americans are highly religious or otherwise socially conservative and care about those issues as well.
Who are you defining as their opponents?
You really, really are sticking with the contention that everyone opposing the Tea Party didn’t in any way make substantiative criticism of them— for example, that Coombs didn’t have a long debate with O’Donnell where he pointed out where her understanding of the first amendment was flawed and talked about the importance to governance of the establishment clause?
That just didn’t happen?
No, you are misrepresenting what i said.
The Tea Party proved attractive to many voters because they offered up an alternative. While you may have talked about governance, most of their critics did not. If that were not true, the GOP would have lost the elections in a landslide.
Yes, the Tea Party demonized their opponents- that has become de riguer in politics- but they also offered voters an alternative. The Dems did not. When the Tea Party message was extreme, their canedidates lost- O’Donnell and Angle, despite all the media coverage were tossed aside by voters who would not put up with their stupidity.
Yes, some Americans are racist. Yes some Americans are religious and some are not.
In the end, the voters spoke- and hopefully, the Dems will have learned from the experience. Blaming the voters is not the lesson that first comes to mind.
| 155 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:40:58am |
re: #154 researchok
Yes, the Tea Party demonized their opponents- that has become de riguer in politics- but they also offered voters an alternative. The Dems did not.
]
We can debate the relative success of this election another time, when I have more time, but the Tea Party did not offer an alternative, not in any meaningful sense of the term.
The Democrats, conversely, did not so much offer an alternative - instead, they are the alternative. They are in power, so they did governing-type things. That’s the alternative. They actually did things, for better or worse.
The Tea Party did not offer alternative governance. They offered alternative people, without any ideas of governance. They relied on a powerful media and propaganda machine, and a strong set of memes about how evil, corrupt, and wicked Democrats are, and offered an alternative to being Democrats. They did not offer any rational policy alternatives, they simply ran on the idea of not being Democrats, and trusted to a cooperative and partisan media machine to sell the idea that Democrats are everything bad. In the US political model, that works. Let us not confuse that with strong ideas and alternative governance.
| 156 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:43:20am |
re: #154 researchok
The Tea Party proved attractive to many voters because they offered up an alternative. While you may have talked about governance, most of their critics did not. If that were not true, the GOP would have lost the elections in a landslide.
Why do you think that’s true, though? I understand that’s your assertion, but you seem to have decided that ideologically. It seems an article of faith, rather than something arrived at rationally.
Yes, the Tea Party demonized their opponents- that has become de riguer in politics- but they also offered voters an alternative. The Dems did not.
Why do you feel comfortable saying this, though? Did you really not hear any Democrats talking about policy and governance? You really, really, really think that all the Democrats ran on was “Fuck the Tea Party, they’re stupid racists?”
Yes, some Americans are racist. Yes some Americans are religious and some are not.
Right. And to say that Americans care about governance and taxes and spending, and ignoring social issues, is to vastly misrepresent the way that American voters operate. In addition, the amount of actual knowledge that voters have on the subject of taxes and spending is, sadly, low; so many people thought Obama had raised their taxes, so many people think that NASA or foreign aid takes up a large part of their budget. I don’t think you can really say people care about those issues straightforwardly; they don’t care enough about them to become informed about them. I don’t know what to call it.
In the end, the voters spoke- and hopefully, the Dems will have learned from the experience. Blaming the voters is not the lesson that first comes to mind.
And the votes spoke and elected Obama, too. And the voters spoke and elected Bush. And the voters spoke and elected the Democrats back in 2006.
I do blame my fellow Americans for their high degree of ignorance and uninformedness on so many subjects critical to governance. Lack of understanding of the tax system, lack of understanding of where the government actually spends its money, lack of understanding that government spending isn’t money flowing out of the economy; all of these things are subjects that American voters, in general, are extremely ignorant about. But far more then them, I blame the media and the politicians who exploit and encourage that ignorance.
Most of the Tea Party candidates are either ignorant on these issues or are pushing ignorance about them cynically, like Rubio did. Did he really not know that every discretionary program is up for review every year, so they all have a one year sunset already, when he proposed a ten-year sunset for them?
| 157 |
RogueOne Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:48:23am |
re: #149 researchok
Calling the other side idiots and racists and evil does not transl;ate into votes. Clearly.
I firmly believe that right there is why so many independents switched sides this election season and they’re going to be very hard to get back by 2012. When you’ve been demonized as a closest racist and nazi because you disagree with a policy position….that sticks with you.
| 158 |
RogueOne Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:51:02am |
re: #153 Renaissance_Man
Making up stories about death panels = sound ideas about governance.
…….
Death panels is crazy talk, I wonder where they could have ever gotten the idea that the government just might take cost into consideration when deciding on treatment?
Obama Says Grandmother’s Hip Replacement Raises Cost Questions
[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]
or maybe….
Review of prostate cancer drug Provenge renews medical cost-benefit debate
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]
| 159 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:51:47am |
Whatever it was, the Tea Party offered voters something the Dems did not. That said, it wasn’t just the Tea Party. While they certainly had an influence, PA and OH and most of the country didn’t vote GOP because of the Tea Party.
In any event, of one thing I am certain: The GOP hopes and prays he Dems stay the course with the same kind of politicking embraced by them until now. Obama is still popular with voters (justifiably so, in my opinion). He didn’t lose the election- the Dems did.
That the Dems passed so many bills is no testament to their governance. They had majorities in both Houses for 4 years (with 2 of those years under Bush). That some of their bills did not pass is not the fault of the GOP. That some of their governance is not popular with voters also contributed to the ‘shellacking’ of the last election.
Anyway, I do hope to see the demise of the Tea Party- not my cuppa, as they say. The Dems will shorten the process or stretch it out.
| 160 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:53:30am |
re: #159 researchok
That some of their bills did not pass is not the fault of the GOP.
Is the non-passage of bills that were filibustered by the GOP the ‘fault’ of the GOP at all?
In any event, of one thing I am certain: The GOP hopes and prays he Dems stay the course with the same kind of politicking embraced by them until now.
You really, really, really see the Democrats as having been more negative than the GOP during the last election cycle?
| 161 |
RogueOne Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:55:34am |
re: #160 Obdicut
Is the non-passage of bills that were filibustered by the GOP the ‘fault’ of the GOP at all?
You really, really, really see the Democrats as having been more negative than the GOP during the last election cycle?
Not to be rude, but were you not paying any attention at all to what happened last week? The largest swing in the history of the republican party? Unless you believe the republicans deserved their electoral victory what other reason would it have happened if not for the fact that the dems completely and totally sucked during the last 2 years?
| 162 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 4:59:13am |
re: #156 Obdicut
Why do you think that’s true, though? I understand that’s your assertion, but you seem to have decided that ideologically. It seems an article of faith, rather than something arrived at rationally.
Why do you feel comfortable saying this, though? Did you really not hear any Democrats talking about policy and governance? You really, really, really think that all the Democrats ran on was “Fuck the Tea Party, they’re stupid racists?”
Right. And to say that Americans care about governance and taxes and spending, and ignoring social issues, is to vastly misrepresent the way that American voters operate. In addition, the amount of actual knowledge that voters have on the subject of taxes and spending is, sadly, low; so many people thought Obama had raised their taxes, so many people think that NASA or foreign aid takes up a large part of their budget. I don’t think you can really say people care about those issues straightforwardly; they don’t care enough about them to become informed about them. I don’t know what to call it.
And the votes spoke and elected Obama, too. And the voters spoke and elected Bush. And the voters spoke and elected the Democrats back in 2006.
I do blame my fellow Americans for their high degree of ignorance and uninformedness on so many subjects critical to governance. Lack of understanding of the tax system, lack of understanding of where the government actually spends its money, lack of understanding that government spending isn’t money flowing out of the economy; all of these things are subjects that American voters, in general, are extremely ignorant about. But far more then them, I blame the media and the politicians who exploit and encourage that ignorance.
Most of the Tea Party candidates are either ignorant on these issues or are pushing ignorance about them cynically, like Rubio did. Did he really not know that every discretionary program is up for review every year, so they all have a one year sunset already, when he proposed a ten-year sunset for them?
I believe that is true because A lot of Tea party candidates won seats.
Now, not for one moment do I believe that even the majority of people who voted for Tea Party candidates did so because they saw them as flawless.Just the opposite- I believe they saw them as better than the alternative.
As for your other assertion re taxes and spending, you may- may- have a point- up to a point. Americans are not as uninformed as you might think. And if they are, perhaps educating them is the way to go (an alternative that embraces the ‘other’ as opposed to rejecting them.
You are right about one thing for sure. If Americans don’t believe they are getting good governance, the party in power will be given the boot.
| 163 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:01:10am |
re: #160 Obdicut
Is the non-passage of bills that were filibustered by the GOP the ‘fault’ of the GOP at all?
You really, really, really see the Democrats as having been more negative than the GOP during the last election cycle?
Lets be clear here. The Dems had an absolute majority for years. They didn’t need the GOP.
Don’t blame the GOP if some Dems didn’t always vote the Party Line.
| 164 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:02:26am |
re: #162 researchok
I believe that is true because A lot of Tea party candidates won seats.
But why do you believe that the reason they won those seats is because they talked about governance while their opponents did not?
As for your other assertion re taxes and spending, you may- may- have a point- up to a point. Americans are not as uninformed as you might think. And if they are, perhaps educating them is the way to go (an alternative that embraces the ‘other’ as opposed to rejecting them.
I’ve read most of the polls and studies on the informedness of the American electorate. It’s not an exact science, but there is a woeful amount of ignorance out there.
I do think that educating them is important and I do feel that is a significant failure of the Democrats; they shirked from their own accomplishments.
You are right about one thing for sure. If Americans don’t believe they are getting good governance, the party in power will be given the boot.
Except I didn’t say that.
Did you see my point about Rubio? How do you think that applies to your contention that the Tea Party people talked about governance. Is saying factually incorrect things about governance still ‘talking about governance’?
| 165 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:03:07am |
re: #160 Obdicut
Is the non-passage of bills that were filibustered by the GOP the ‘fault’ of the GOP at all?
You really, really, really see the Democrats as having been more negative than the GOP during the last election cycle?
Yes, I see the Dems perceived as more negative.
‘Vote for the bill and then you can read it’ speaks volumes.
| 166 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:03:48am |
re: #163 researchok
Can I blame the GOP and those Democrats who voted with them? Or for some reason do I need to blame the Democrats for not enforcing total party unity?
I really don’t get that. If the entire GOP votes against cloture, and one Democrat votes against cloture, why should I blame the Democrats solely?
| 167 |
Sionainn Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:04:54am |
re: #158 RogueOne
Death panels is crazy talk, I wonder where they could have ever gotten the idea that the government just might take cost into consideration when deciding on treatment?
Obama Says Grandmother’s Hip Replacement Raises Cost Questions
[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]
Obama was right…why are people who are terminally ill getting expensive procedures that are not going to extend their lives or improve their quality of life? That’s not “death panels.” People who are terminally ill are going to die in the near future. If it’s not going to cure them or improve quality of life, it shouldn’t be done. What’s wrong with that?
| 168 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:05:40am |
re: #165 researchok
Yes, I see the Dems perceived as more negative.
You mean, you perceived the Democrats as more negative.
‘Vote for the bill and then you can read it’ speaks volumes.
Um, that has nothing at all to do with negative campaigning. It is also an unfortunately honest statement; given the amendability of bills, even up unto the last hour, you really do need to pass them— and then reconcile between the House and the Senate versions— before you know what’s in the final version. It was a terribly phrased answer. It’s main sin was that it was closer to the truth than most politicians ever get.
| 169 |
Sionainn Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:06:48am |
re: #165 researchok
Yes, I see the Dems perceived as more negative.
‘Vote for the bill and then you can read it’ speaks volumes.
That’s a misrepresentation of what Pelosi said.
| 170 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:09:48am |
re: #167 Sionainn
Especially since any surgery on an elderly patient carries huge risks with it.
If ‘death panels’ can be said to exist, they exist already. They exist when doctors refuse a transplant patient due to their risks. They exist when a an insurance company refuses to cover a treatment. All ‘death panels’ really are an acknowledgement that resources aren’t infinite. Anyone who denies that is just weird.
| 171 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:13:17am |
re: #164 Obdicut
But why do you believe that the reason they won those seats is because they talked about governance while their opponents did not?
I’ve read most of the polls and studies on the informedness of the American electorate. It’s not an exact science, but there is a woeful amount of ignorance out there.
I do think that educating them is important and I do feel that is a significant failure of the Democrats; they shirked from their own accomplishments.
Except I didn’t say that.
Did you see my point about Rubio? How do you think that applies to your contention that the Tea Party people talked about governance. Is saying factually incorrect things about governance still ‘talking about governance’?
I agree with a lot of your comment.
Polls, in my opinion, do more harm than good exactly for the reasons you elucidate- we just don’t know what all the numbers mean- and I doubt we ever will, Voting and voter identification is highly personal and unless you spend a whole lot of time with a voter, ‘you don’t know jack’.
I do agree that Dems need to educate voters and that has to be a critical mission. As someone center right and with a bit of experience in human behavior, I can tell you exactly where the schism between left and right lies.
The narrative is very clear and reinforced by both side: Conservatives will tell you they have better ideas and Liberals will tell you they are better people. This fits with their respective ideologies Each side is happy with this narrative and therein lies the biggest problem.
In a nutshell, this is the division. You may choose to argue but I can tell you after years of looking at this, my assessment is more than valid (FYI, that is a tint part of redacted word product).
Bottom line? Unless these narratives change we’ll all be spinning our wheels.
| 172 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:14:23am |
re: #168 Obdicut
You mean, you perceived the Democrats as more negative.
Um, that has nothing at all to do with negative campaigning. It is also an unfortunately honest statement; given the amendability of bills, even up unto the last hour, you really do need to pass them— and then reconcile between the House and the Senate versions— before you know what’s in the final version. It was a terribly phrased answer. It’s main sin was that it was closer to the truth than most politicians ever get.
That has everything to do with negative campaigning!
She was the poster child for imperious government.
| 173 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:14:59am |
re: #170 Obdicut
Especially since any surgery on an elderly patient carries huge risks with it.
If ‘death panels’ can be said to exist, they exist already. They exist when doctors refuse a transplant patient due to their risks. They exist when a an insurance company refuses to cover a treatment. All ‘death panels’ really are an acknowledgement that resources aren’t infinite. Anyone who denies that is just weird.
Been like that for decades,
| 174 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:16:04am |
re: #171 researchok
The narrative is very clear and reinforced by both side: Conservatives will tell you they have better ideas and Liberals will tell you they are better people. This fits with their respective ideologies Each side is happy with this narrative and therein lies the biggest problem.
I think this is completely simplistic, incredibly untrue, and I’m really surprised you would offer up something that that’s two-dimensional and sketchy.
Conservatives talk a lot about social conservative issues, with the underpinning being that they’re better people because they believe and act in accordance with those moral codes. Liberals will talk quite a bit about how the GOP are the party of No and have no ideas of their own.
Seriously, I’m just baffled by why on earth you think that’s true.
| 175 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:16:38am |
re: #172 researchok
That has everything to do with negative campaigning!
She was the poster child for imperious government.
What do ‘imperious government’ and ‘negative campaigning’ have to do with each other?
Did you understand what I said about her statement?
| 176 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:17:49am |
re: #169 Sionainn
That’s a misrepresentation of what Pelosi said.
No, it isn’t.
It was reflective of her attitude.
She promised lawmakers and citizens would have the opportunity and time to examine the bill- and that was after she promised ‘openness’ and integrity.
Let me be clear- she is no different than the rest of them. She is just more visible.
| 178 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:19:42am |
re: #175 Obdicut
What do ‘imperious government’ and ‘negative campaigning’ have to do with each other?
Did you understand what I said about her statement?
Yes, I do understand what you are saying.
What I am saying is that campaigning doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It is fueled, repackaged and reworked.
| 179 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:22:21am |
re: #177 laZardo
So why is euthanasia still such a touchy subject again?
/half
Good question and the answers are varied.
First and foremost, we have to define the term. There is active euthanasia and there is passive euthanasia.
One might administer a lethal drug or one can withhold treatment. Two very different things.
To complicate matters, there are times each of those options might be called for. It is complicated.
| 180 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:23:48am |
re: #178 researchok
I didn’t claim that campaigning happened in a vacuum.
I’m not going to ask you to support your perception that the Democrats were more negative than the Republicans. That’s your perception, and obviously it can’t be changed by outside input.
However, there was a huge amount of negative campaigning from both sides. I doubt the measureability of who was ‘more’ negative.
Again: Rubio, when he talked about a ten-year sunset for discretionary programs, was talking about something that couldn’t exist, that wasn’t aligned with reality. Does this, to you, count as talking about governance? When the Tea Party types talked about governance inaccurately, is that counted in you saying that they were preferred because they talked about governance?
| 181 |
researchok Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:26:55am |
re: #180 Obdicut
I didn’t claim that campaigning happened in a vacuum.
I’m not going to ask you to support your perception that the Democrats were more negative than the Republicans. That’s your perception, and obviously it can’t be changed by outside input.
However, there was a huge amount of negative campaigning from both sides. I doubt the measureability of who was ‘more’ negative.
Again: Rubio, when he talked about a ten-year sunset for discretionary programs, was talking about something that couldn’t exist, that wasn’t aligned with reality. Does this, to you, count as talking about governance? When the Tea Party types talked about governance inaccurately, is that counted in you saying that they were preferred because they talked about governance?
All true.
As for Rubio, I honestly see him as an anomaly. His prominence came about as the result of a perfect storm of political insanity. I also see the guy as the least of three evils. By no means, however is he a first choice candidate.
I mean, Florida this time around was a three ring circus!
| 183 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:30:36am |
re: #182 researchok
Have a good one, but really think about what I said about the categorical divide you constructed between liberals and conservatives. I think it’s way, way off, and that it basically ignores the social conservatives.
| 184 |
Sionainn Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:33:03am |
re: #176 researchok
No, it isn’t.
It was reflective of her attitude.
She promised lawmakers and citizens would have the opportunity and time to examine the bill- and that was after she promised ‘openness’ and integrity.
Let me be clear- she is no different than the rest of them. She is just more visible.
No, that’s not true. Here’s what she said. Additionally, there was plenty of time for people and lawmakers to examine the bill. It was online for everyone. I had it bookmarked so I could look up stuff in it and prove people wrong on some of the crazy things they were saying were in there.
| 185 |
laZardo Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:45:08am |
re: #183 Obdicut
I don’t exactly see a distinction between “conservatives” and “social conservatives.” Social conservatives tend to vote conservative candidates (as social liberals tend to vote liberals.) About the only major exception would be the so-called “African Americans and Prop 8” bloc.
| 187 |
harlequinade Tue, Nov 9, 2010 5:59:08am |
Sorry I was late for this one but - isn’t the misnomer of the Tea Party that it offered a difference?
Wasn’t it promoted by Fox as a method of protesting Health Care and the deficit?
It wasn’t a grass roots movement, more than - say - a riled up mob? Essentially, that same mob who were fired up to shout down town hall meetings..was it summer?
As the news media started taking notice of them, most of them just printed the press release “It’s a grass roots movement designed to tackle issues of a government out of control.” And used those town hall meetings to say “Look - the independents are angry”
But wasn’t the Government Out Of Control meme a republican party talking point?
As I recall, and I’m outside the country so I can well be wrong, as they started standing for congress/senate most of the candidates did what they could to not be interviewed. So no one could be asked about what they actually stood for - other than “We’re angry.”
And it’s been said that they were going to vote with the Republicans for a long time.
I don’t see how the Tea Party offered a difference/choice
| 189 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:08:19am |
| 190 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:08:32am |
| 192 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:12:47am |
I only got 3 and a half hours of sleep last night. Thank God for naps.
| 193 |
Ron Paul Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:15:05am |
re: #190 Alouette
That is a good feeling, It is a rotten time to find a job.
| 194 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:22:16am |
re: #193 Ron Paul
That is a good feeling, It is a rotten time to find a job.
I talked to a friend yesterday who lives in Maryland. We wants me to move there. He said the have rows and rows of Bistros and the such. Said it would be easy for me to find work. But that would mean uprooting my life.
| 195 |
Ojoe Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:29:43am |
Headline over at MSNBC right now:
‘BUILDING BRIDGES,’ OBAMA COURTS MUSLIMS
(their caps)
Sigh. Peace through strength.
Is this president tone deaf or what?
Gallivanting around to foreign places when much political work and damage control is needed at home.
Joe 6 pack will not be amused.
He sure looks like a one-term president if you ask me.
| 196 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:30:05am |
The government, the Obama administration, the Fed-Seem to think inflation is a good thing, as easier to fight than deflation. I’m no economist. But endless printing of dollars on and on year after year looks like the foundation for a disaster.
| 197 |
Ojoe Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:31:14am |
re: #196 Rightwingconspirator
It is a raid on the hard earned savings of the little guy.
| 198 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:31:53am |
re: #195 Ojoe
We really get that you don’t like Obama.
Gallavantin’:
India to create 54,000 US jobs with $15bn worth of trade deals news
| 200 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:33:13am |
re: #196 Rightwingconspirator
A) The majority of the increase in the money supply doesn’t come from the government, but from the valuation of things in the economy.
If your house goes up in value (hah!) from two hundred thousand dollars to a million dollars, that ‘adds’ eight hundred thousand dollars into the economy, whether or not the government prints that money. Most money doesn’t exist in printed form.
B) Inflation is indeed a lot easier to deal with than deflation, especially in a country where debt is common.
| 201 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:35:12am |
re: #195 Ojoe
Since Joe 6 pack as you put it thinks hating the innocent will be helpful, screw em. I have no sympathy for the haters. Hating terrorists and killers is different about a billion times over than hating Muslims, or anyone over their religion.
Yeah I may agree he looks like a single term guy, but I rest that on the economy, not foreign policies.
What Obama has exactly right here is close ties to the rising democracy in Asia. I’d be much happier to see India on more imports and China on a LOT less. (with a nod nod to Obdicuts 198 link)
| 202 |
darthstar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:36:19am |
Mornin’ all…anyone catch Conan last night? That was some funny shit. So glad he’s back. Jimmy Vivino and the Basic Cable band (though I’ll miss Springsteen drummer Max Weinberg). Andy Richter back as side-kick. I hope Leno’s ratings go straight into the toilet.
| 203 |
laZardo Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:37:01am |
Been up since 6. Gonna try to get some shuteye before tomorrow hits. Nighty.
| 204 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:37:33am |
re: #202 darthstar
The ratings could split since Conan comes on at 11 and Leno at 11:30.
| 205 |
darthstar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:38:21am |
re: #195 Ojoe
Fuck Joe Six-Pack. He’s a fucking retard. The president isn’t ‘gallivanting’ and diplomatic missions are still important. What would you have him do? Sit around the White House and let the Republicans throw shit in his face?
| 206 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:39:19am |
re: #200 Obdicut
Deep question, thick for just before I leave, but “easier” for who exactly? Once again the consequences hit main street hard and go easy on Wall street. That mess in the ‘70’s was hard on the whole middle class. Is that not a period where the middle class lost ground until the ‘90’s?
| 207 |
darthstar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:39:33am |
re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar
The ratings could split since Conan comes on at 11 and Leno at 11:30.
Yeah, but TBS could move him to 11:30…That’d be a shot across the bow. I wonder how many American households still don’t have basic cable?
| 208 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:39:34am |
Did anyone see the NatGeo special on the State Department? Pretty cool.
| 209 |
Ron Paul Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:39:40am |
re: #194 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yeah it costs to move, too. And having family around helps.
| 210 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:40:37am |
re: #207 darthstar
I would move it to 1130. Then run The Office or whatever as his lead in.
| 211 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:41:08am |
re: #195 Ojoe
Obama could indeed be a 1-termer. Or not.
But what he’s doing on a foreign policy trip is just as important as some of the domestic issues facing the nation. He’s forging closer ties with India, which is a huge deal for the US. By backing India in a bid for a permanent seat on the Security Council, Obama is forcing a discussion on the status quo in the organization and leading to a potential realignment of the membership since India has long been a member of the nonaligned nations and often a vocal opponent to the US. It helps move India away from closer ties with Russia and provides separation with Iran - which also seeks a leadership role among the nonaligned/3d world nations. Moreover, it puts the US squarely behind the Indian government vis-a-vis China and Pakistan, who are both longstanding rivals and enemies to India.
The visit to Indonesia is one to one of the most populous Muslim nations in the world, and carries on the Bush mantra of not being against Muslims, but against the Islamic extremists. That’s important to long term strategic interests - including domestic security.
So, after this trip, he’ll return home to find that there’s still work to be done on HCR, fighting with the GOP, and all the rest of the stumbling and fumbling economy. It doesn’t take away from his achievements with this tour of South Asia.
| 212 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:41:40am |
re: #209 Ron Paul
Yeah it costs to move, too. And having family around helps.
i would sell everything and start over. Got free rent for about 2-3 months if I do.
| 213 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:45:53am |
re: #200 Obdicut
A) The majority of the increase in the money supply doesn’t come from the government, but from the valuation of things in the economy.
By every measure, it’s up. And the administration has said, admitted as a policy description they are printing us currency fast. Growing the nation’s “wealth” via paper money.
[Link: articles.moneycentral.msn.com…]
| 214 |
Ron Paul Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:49:08am |
re: #212 Cannadian Club Akbar
On the other hand, if you have friends there…
Sounds like You have thought it over.
Getting rid of everything is pretty liberating!
My only real assets are My faith, family, friends and education.
| 215 |
iossarian Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:51:27am |
re: #206 Rightwingconspirator
Deep question, thick for just before I leave, but “easier” for who exactly? Once again the consequences hit main street hard and go easy on Wall street. That mess in the ‘70’s was hard on the whole middle class. Is that not a period where the middle class lost ground until the ‘90’s?
It’s a really interesting question. I think inflation was not necessarily the main cause of middle class pain between 1970 and 1990 (though it probably contributed). Inflation really hurts people whose wealth-to-income ratio is high (lots of wealth, little to no income) such as retirees.
(As an aside, I personally think the main cause of pain for working families in that period was income erosion due to the shift away from (unionized, high-wage) manufacturing. Not saying that manufacturing didn’t need to be reconfigured, just that there wasn’t much though given to what would replace it. Same deal with coal mining in the North of England, for example.)
If you have a solid plan for protecting retirees and other vulnerable groups, I don’t see inflation as a huge evil.
| 216 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:56:02am |
| 217 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:56:37am |
re: #215 iossarian
Double digit inflation has some evil consequences. Well, we shall see. I’ll just put up one particular indicator of the economies health. With the caveat one should only read so much into a single indicator…
[Link: www.kitco.com…]
[Link: www.kitco.com…]
| 218 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Nov 9, 2010 6:57:52am |
re: #207 darthstar
Yeah, but TBS could move him to 11:30…That’d be a shot across the bow. I wonder how many American households still don’t have basic cable?
We don’t. :) Of course that’s because when the TV transition happened we used it as an excuse to cut off the sat dish & scrapped our old TV without replacing it. We do have our son’s eMac in the living room to watch DVD’s on. But TV? Only thing I miss is watching football on autumn Sundays.
| 219 |
iossarian Tue, Nov 9, 2010 7:00:29am |
re: #218 wlewisiii
We don’t. :) Of course that’s because when the TV transition happened we used it as an excuse to cut off the sat dish & scrapped our old TV without replacing it. We do have our son’s eMac in the living room to watch DVD’s on. But TV? Only thing I miss is watching football on autumn Sundays.
I watch the football on my home-made antenna, which picks up NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox! Sometimes I watch feeds of ESPN online (bit naughty), or there are always sports bars for the rare unmissable game.
Are you in an area where you can’t get the networks over the air?
| 220 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 7:01:43am |
re: #219 iossarian
I watch the football on my home-made antenna, which picks up NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox! Sometimes I watch feeds of ESPN online (bit naughty), or there are always sports bars for the rare unmissable game.
Are you in an area where you can’t get the networks over the air?
I have 3 converter boxes at my house. Cable in this house.
| 222 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Nov 9, 2010 7:21:43am |
re: #219 iossarian
I watch the football on my home-made antenna, which picks up NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox! Sometimes I watch feeds of ESPN online (bit naughty), or there are always sports bars for the rare unmissable game.
Are you in an area where you can’t get the networks over the air?
Oh, there’s signal. I just refuse to buy a digital TV for no reason other than network greed. I can listen to the Packers on the radio & that’s sufficient for me.
| 223 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 9, 2010 7:22:47am |
President Obama continues to run with the ongoing meme that the impediment to peace between Israel and Palestinians is Israel’s continuing construction of housing.
Let’s just ignore that Israel has repeatedly shown itself more than capable of forcibly removing its citizens from territories in the name of peace. It worked with Egypt, but has failed miserably with the Palestinians - see Gaza and with Hizbullah in Southern Lebanon (from which the Hizbullah fired thousands of rockets in a devastating war in 2006).
It has never been the impediment to peace. Palestinian refusal to accept Israel’s very existence has been the impediment to peace. Diplomats the world over refuse to recognize this salient fact. They’d rather focus on Israel’s actions and demand that Israel resettle Jews from the West Bank and Gaza - eliminating a Jewish presence in those regions, to ethnically cleanse those areas to the satisfaction of the Palestinians who demand not only a Jew-free country of their own, but demand all of Israel’s territory as their own. Hamas refuses to recognize Israel’s existence. Fatah has never repudiated its own charter calling for Israel’s destruction and ongoing struggle against Israel’s existence.
| 224 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 7:37:54am |
| 225 |
JeffFX Tue, Nov 9, 2010 7:45:17am |
re: #222 wlewisiii
Oh, there’s signal. I just refuse to buy a digital TV for no reason other than network greed. I can listen to the Packers on the radio & that’s sufficient for me.
It seems like you mistakenly believe that network greed caused the digital switchover. This was a positive change made by government in the way we use the limited EM spectrum. NTSC television was an incredible waste of this limited resource.
The transition was done over many years, and you can get a cheap converter box and use your existing TV, so there’s really no downside.
This is a great example of government done right.
| 226 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:16:49am |
re: #190 Alouette
I start next week.
Come on!
You know you want too…
Let’s see the Snoopy Dance!!
Congrat’s……..
| 227 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:22:28am |
re: #113 harlequinade
I’ve not got to the end of the thread, so I apologise if this comment has already been made.
The problem with all the other news shows fact checking Fox is that Fox becomes the news. Which then pushes eyeballs _to_ Fox to see it in action.
And it’s not a closed system. Fox makes something up/misreports something. They do the “Some people say” thing that makes it from opinion into news.
As Fox starts to report it - and the echo chamber around Fox - the question is asked “Why are we the only ones talking about this.” which forces other news stations to talk about it.
But once the lie is out there, that gets the coverage. What do you remember more - the $200 million/day and 34 warships story, or the Pentagon coming out and saying “That’s just not true.” Because I know which story got more coverage.
What I remember is the sheer silliness of the numbers. Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the Obama team was renting 5000 hotel rooms at 10 000 dollars a day each. That would come to 50 million dollars a day, not 200 million. There’s just NO WAY to get to the kind of spending they’re talking about, unless you say that sitting in the background, the mere existence of the U.S. military backs up his safety on his trip and should therefore be counted. Which is another kind of silliness.
| 228 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:23:58am |
re: #227 lostlakehiker
What I remember is the sheer silliness of the numbers. Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the Obama team was renting 5000 hotel rooms at 10 000 dollars a day each. That would come to 50 million dollars a day, not 200 million. There’s just NO WAY to get to the kind of spending they’re talking about, unless you say that sitting in the background, the mere existence of the U.S. military backs up his safety on his trip and should therefore be counted. Which is another kind of silliness.
And thus we get the discussion of why this silliness appears to gain any sort of traction with the media and the populace in general.
| 229 |
Jadespring Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:25:18am |
| 230 |
Wozza Matter? Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:33:10am |
| 231 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:34:53am |
re: #215 iossarian
It’s a really interesting question. I think inflation was not necessarily the main cause of middle class pain between 1970 and 1990 (though it probably contributed). Inflation really hurts people whose wealth-to-income ratio is high (lots of wealth, little to no income) such as retirees.
(As an aside, I personally think the main cause of pain for working families in that period was income erosion due to the shift away from (unionized, high-wage) manufacturing. Not saying that manufacturing didn’t need to be reconfigured, just that there wasn’t much though given to what would replace it. Same deal with coal mining in the North of England, for example.)
If you have a solid plan for protecting retirees and other vulnerable groups, I don’t see inflation as a huge evil.
But the whole point of inflation is to take money from people who mistakenly trust your assurances that money is a store of value. In this case, the intended victims would be China, all other foreign holders of dollar denominated assets, and anyone who wasn’t rich enough or daring enough to accept the risk inherent in buying real estate/stocks/collectibles/gold instead of just putting money in the bank or buying an annuity.
Inflation is a form of debt repudiation. Unlike bankruptcy, it’s repudiation without due cause. It’s a form of fraud.
Inflation upends the correlation between the bourgeois virtues of prudence and thrift, and a slow, steady march to a better life. The smart thing to do, in an inflationary economy, is to hop around, borrow like crazy, delay repayment by any means that may appear, and scheme scheme scheme.
When the folk who’ve been screwed out of their life savings awake to what has happened, they become resentful. They view the folk who profited from the inflation as criminal types, as indeed many were. Others were just quicker of wit, and they resent that too, and think of that as another kind of criminality. In this, too, there is a kernel of justice, for that quickness of wit was deployed not in the service of any general advantage to society, but just to win various zero-sum games.
The winners in an inflationary economy learn cynicism. The losers learn vengeance and suspicion. No good can come of that witches brew of sentiment, which since there are only winners and losers, comes to include just about everybody.
| 232 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:35:03am |
Mystery missile caught on video near L.A.
A mysterious “missile” streaked across the sky off the Southern California coast Monday night and was caught on video by a local TV station’s helicopter camera.
KCBS reportedthe trail was visible from Los Angeles. The station’s helicopter crew described the missile’s location as 35 miles out to sea north of Catalina Island.
Senior Pentagon and Navy officials told NBC News that they did not know who launched the missile.
A senior official told NBC News it was “possible” that the incident was an accidental launch by the military. However, the Navy, Air Force and Missile Defense Agency said they had no information to indicate they were involved, NBC News reported.
Military officials told said that a planned military exercise would not have been held that close to Los Angeles.
Officials were also examining the possibility it was a “commercial launch of some kind” or that amateurs had built a device capable of creating such a plume, NBC News reported.
A Navy spokesman told local CBS station KFMB that there was no Navy activity reported in that region Monday night, and that it was not the Navy’s missile.
KCBS, which originally reported the incident, interviewed former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Robert Ellsworth after showing him the video.
“It could be a test firing of an intercontinental ballistic missile from a submarine to demonstrate, mainly to Asia, that we can do that,” he told the TV station, emphasizing that he was purely speculating.
He said that it would be best to wait for a definitive clarification from the military.
| 233 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:35:16am |
For our basement dwelling Trolls and Sock Puppets….
There once was a “Bird”from Calcutta
Whose breasts were like mounds of fresh butta
So I save up some Quid to call her,I did
When she rang at our flat met my Mutta!
| 234 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:40:12am |
re: #232 NJDhockeyfan
Model Rocketeers???
Ya,right!
Someone’s in deep shit……
| 235 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:40:48am |
re: #232 NJDhockeyfan
When the dolphins get their nukes from the Norks they’ll be ready to take us out — or at least extort extra anchovies! And I expect the shortage generated by that will force more people to put pineapple on their pizza as a substitute.
// ;)
| 236 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:41:55am |
re: #234 reloadingisnotahobby
Model Rocketeers???
Ya,right!
Someone’s in deep shit…
What does this button do?
| 237 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:44:55am |
re: #127 Renaissance_Man
Mandatory voting.
Seriously - it is the simplest, and also coincidentally the most effective solution. Cults, especially cults with a nihilistic and hate-based worldview such as the modern Conservative cult, will only ever be a minority. This last election and the enormous failures of the GOP and the Teahadis has proved that. Mandatory voting immediately nullifies their potential impact, because making an alternate reality that encompasses a significant majority of the population is beyond even the power of FOX and the cult media.
Mandatory voting does not necessarily make a population more educated, though it usually does. It does however minimise the impact of small, passionate, extremist movements and moderate elections, and the modern Conservative cult is the very definition of a small, passionate, extremist movement.
It is also the easiest large change ever to sell to the American electorate. Voting is our right, won by centuries of blood and sweat. It is more than a right, it’s a civic duty. Mandatory voting ensures that ‘the people have spoken’, which is the current laughable talking point that the wingnuts parrot. It engages all people in our government, by the people, of the people, and for the people. Insert other feelgood slogan.
Mandatory voting is desperately needed in the US. It would cure many of the political ills you have here overnight, and it would do it without heavy-handed intervention or exploitable ‘fixes’.
Bad idea. You have a right to not vote. You have a right to exhibit contempt for the whole slate of candidates. And you have a right to judge yourself too ill informed to be able to cast a sensible vote.
What’s more, people who are compelled to vote may easily get out of that requirement by writing in Mickey Mouse every time. And one fine day, Michael Maus of Weehawken NJ would wind up the surprise winner of an election.
Bad idea. If people who don’t care and don’t know anything about the race are sure to vote, commercials that simply bang away at some ditty and ensure voter retention of the candidate’s name will be a winning tactic.
Tail gunner Joe, that’s our man. He shot down the Jerries and he’ll shoot down the Ban.
Gunner Joe, Gunner Joe, vote vote vote for Gunner Joe.
Poor Mr. Hickenlooper doesn’t have a chance. His name’s too long.
| 238 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:45:46am |
I took a nap, ate lunch, and showered. I don’t have to leave for work for at least another hour. Second nap!!!
| 239 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:46:48am |
re: #238 Cannadian Club Akbar
I took a nap, ate lunch, and showered. I don’t have to leave for work for at least another hour. Second nap!!!
Go in early and really freak people out!!
| 240 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:49:11am |
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
| 241 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:49:37am |
re: #34 Renaissance_Man
We have not seen anything like this before. The difference is pervasiveness. Until now, people have not been able to live in a 24-hour artificial world. Now, with the internet, cable news, and all other media sources, the Conservative cult literally lives in an alternate reality. They never, ever, have to interact with the real world as far as information goes. They only interact to vote in it. The only solution I see is deprogramming.
Most people don’t live in that artificial world. The average person gets most of their “information” by word of mouth. Word of mouth is the subterranean flow that dwarfs the surface flow.
All of us can talk to our friends and family, and patiently explain and bring up facts and reasons. We actually carry greater weight with each other than any TV channel does.
| 242 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:49:52am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Feel better dude. Stay hydrated (and someone get him some chicken soup, stat!)
| 243 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:54:15am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
It’s the eat thing isn’t it?
Go to the doctors, please.
| 244 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:54:41am |
| 245 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:55:28am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
Get well, ASAP!!
| 246 |
Stanley Sea Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:56:31am |
Obdi, you know it’s a bad infection. Go to the Dr. asap. k?
| 247 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:57:13am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
Doctor.
Now.
| 248 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:57:32am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
If you don’t take care of yourself, and you get worse, do we have to forgive that too?
{Obdicut}
| 249 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:58:48am |
re: #248 wrenchwench
If you don’t take care of yourself, and you get worse, do we have to forgive that too?
{Obdicut}
Ouch…
Mum is that you?
| 250 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 9, 2010 8:59:22am |
| 251 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:00:27am |
| 252 |
Usually refered to as anyways Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:00:35am |
| 253 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:02:16am |
re: #247 reine.de.tout
Doctor.
Now.
I just went. That’s how I found out about the fever. I was taking my temp at home but also taking ibrpofropen (whatver) which is a fever reducer so I thought I didn’t have one but I did.
I’ve got the drops. I shoudl be better in a day or two.
| 254 |
harlequinade Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:02:40am |
re: #228 oaktree
Especially because, a month after he gets back, if you ask people what they remember about the trip - it won’t be the new jobs, it’ll be the $200 million a day
| 255 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:05:26am |
re: #253 Obdicut
I just went. That’s how I found out about the fever. I was taking my temp at home but also taking ibrpofropen (whatver) which is a fever reducer so I thought I didn’t have one but I did.
I’ve got the drops. I shoudl be better in a day or two.
Glad to hear it. I now look forward to any incoherence you wish to share.
| 256 |
Jadespring Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:07:11am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
Take care of yourself. I’m having a sick day too. Fever, though not that high and I can barely talk, it hurts and sounds like my throat is full of mucous covered nails.
| 257 |
Feline Fearless Leader Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:07:58am |
re: #253 Obdicut
I just went. That’s how I found out about the fever. I was taking my temp at home but also taking ibrpofropen (whatver) which is a fever reducer so I thought I didn’t have one but I did.
I’ve got the drops. I shoudl be better in a day or two.
Maybe you should be Summer-ish and see if your current condition allows you to imitate Glenn Beck the way Summer does Sarah Palin. :)
| 258 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:09:06am |
re: #256 Jadespring
Ew. Get well soon! Good thing you don’t need to talk here.
| 259 |
prairiefire Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:13:14am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Well, I have a 103 degree fever. If I act incoherent at any point today, please forgive me.
Did you have your ear looked at?
| 260 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:13:42am |
re: #253 Obdicut
I just went. That’s how I found out about the fever. I was taking my temp at home but also taking ibuprofropen (whatver) which is a fever reducer so I thought I didn’t have one but I did.
I’ve got the drops. I shoudl be better in a day or two.
{obdi}
I hope so.
Please don’t let these sorts of things go for too long, again.
| 261 |
prairiefire Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:15:19am |
re: #260 reine.de.tout
{obdi}
I hope so.
Please don’t let these sorts of things go for too long, again.
Thank you for gettin’ on him about it, Reine. And after I’ve told my “young trucker dying of an ear infection” story twice.
| 262 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:16:53am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Hey if that is related to your ear infection, look out. Doctor time I think.
Be well soon!
| 263 |
Political Atheist Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:18:14am |
re: #253 Obdicut
I just went. That’s how I found out about the fever. I was taking my temp at home but also taking ibuprofen (whatever) which is a fever reducer so I thought I didn’t have one but I did.
I’ve got the drops. I should be better in a day or two.
And I’m behind the thread. Glad to hear you have the drops.
| 264 |
Jadespring Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:18:45am |
re: #261 prairiefire
Thank you for gettin’ on him about it, Reine. And after I’ve told my “young trucker dying of an ear infection” story twice.
I haven’t read that story.
| 265 |
Jadespring Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:21:06am |
re: #258 wrenchwench
Ew. Get well soon! Good thing you don’t need to talk here.
Yeah. The power of the netz. I had to phone a couple of people to let them know I wouldn’t be able to do the things I was supposed to do today. They figured out the reason for the call at “Hi, it’s Jadespring”.
| 267 |
prairiefire Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:34:57am |
re: #264 Jadespring
I haven’t read that story.
Heh, it is one of my “life experience” stories I have to support Health Care Reform.
We had a cousin who met a new guy she really liked. He was an over the road trucker. They had some dates, then he had to cancel a date because he was sick with a cold. Then he contracted encephalitis and was dead within 2 weeks. He did not have health insurance and would not go to a Dr. at first because of that reason.
| 268 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:36:56am |
Palin vs reality
Palin Lashes Out At WSJ Reporter, Misquotes Story
Dimwit.
| 269 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:39:44am |
here he goes again….he learned nothing last year
JAKARTA, Indonesia – President Barack Obama has criticized Israel construction plans in East Jerusalem, saying they’re unhelpful to the pursuit of peace.
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
| 270 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:46:16am |
re: #269 albusteve
here he goes again…he learned nothing last year
JAKARTA, Indonesia – President Barack Obama has criticized Israel construction plans in East Jerusalem, saying they’re unhelpful to the pursuit of peace.
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
Meh, pretty generic complaint that has been made by every president in living memory.
But there’s also this…
He closed his remarks at Tuesday’s news conference with the Muslim salute “salaam aleikum,” and said he intended to reshape American relations with Muslim nations so they were not “focused solely on security issues” but rather on expanded cooperation across a broad range of areas, from science to education. Aides say the speech he planned to give Wednesday at the University of Indonesia — and still hopes to give, just a little earlier — will build on one he delivered in Cairo last year, in which he called for “a new beginning” with the Muslim world.
Outrage!
| 271 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:46:56am |
re: #267 prairiefire
Heh, it is one of my “life experience” stories I have to support Health Care Reform.
We had a cousin who met a new guy she really liked. He was an over the road trucker. They had some dates, then he had to cancel a date because he was sick with a cold. Then he contracted encephalitis and was dead within 2 weeks. He did not have health insurance and would not go to a Dr. at first because of that reason.
sadly, a doctors visit likely would have done little good…there is no cure that I know of
| 272 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:48:48am |
| 273 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:49:15am |
| 274 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:49:16am |
re: #269 albusteve
here he goes again…he learned nothing last year
JAKARTA, Indonesia – President Barack Obama has criticized Israel construction plans in East Jerusalem, saying they’re unhelpful to the pursuit of peace.
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]
Yep, the fact that Israel’s enemies refuse to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist doesn’t seem to matter here…
| 275 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:51:23am |
re: #274 Taqyia2Me
Yep, the fact that Israel’s enemies refuse to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist doesn’t seem to matter here…
it never has regardless of how often it’s heard…it’s a silly game played out for a slice of the vast pie that the situation generates….it’s the mother load
| 276 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:51:25am |
I was pretty sure this morning that NPR was intentionally causing the explosion of wingnut noggins by talking about Obama’s “emotional homecoming” to Indonesia.
| 277 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:52:39am |
re: #274 Taqyia2Me
Yep, the fact that Israel’s enemies refuse to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist doesn’t seem to matter here…
I think it important but if we wanted a president who would put pressure on the Palestinians the Rudy was our only hope. Condemning Palestinian terrorism is a waste of time anyways. They’re stuck like that and no words of condemnation of economic sanctions are going to change that.
| 278 |
lawhawk Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:53:15am |
Whoops. Indonesian Information Minister says he shook Michelle Obama’s hand by mistake.
He says he did, but not by choice. Footage on YouTube shows otherwise, sparking a debate that has lit up Facebook, Twitter and the rest of the blogosphere.“I tried to prevent (being touched) with my hands but Mrs. Michelle held her hands too far toward me (so) we touched,” Information Minister Tifatul Sembiring told tens of thousands of followers on Twitter.
While Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world, the vast majority practice a moderate form of the faith. But Sembiring has flaunted his piety, making a point of avoiding contact with women who are not related to him.
| 279 |
theheat Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:55:25am |
re: #278 lawhawk
Being a committed fundie is so wearing, you can’t blame him for letting his guard down once in awhile. And Michelle, with those muscley arms of hers and all, how could he escape her death grip?
| 280 |
theheat Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:57:53am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Holy crap. please go to a doctor, or even just a local medical clinic. No one wants to see you expire.
| 281 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 9, 2010 10:01:35am |
re: #278 lawhawk
Whoops. Indonesian Information Minister says he shook Michelle Obama’s hand by mistake.
heh
| 282 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 9, 2010 1:53:15pm |
re: #205 darthstar
Fuck Joe Six-Pack. He’s a fucking retard. The president isn’t ‘gallivanting’ and diplomatic missions are still important. What would you have him do? Sit around the White House and let the Republicans throw shit in his face?
Yes, he would! because he’s a Republican who pretends he isn’t a republican join the wig party woop woop
| 283 |
Renaissance_Man Tue, Nov 9, 2010 2:54:59pm |
re: #237 lostlakehiker
Bad idea. You have a right to not vote. You have a right to exhibit contempt for the whole slate of candidates. And you have a right to judge yourself too ill informed to be able to cast a sensible vote.
What’s more, people who are compelled to vote may easily get out of that requirement by writing in Mickey Mouse every time. And one fine day, Michael Maus of Weehawken NJ would wind up the surprise winner of an election.
Bad idea. If people who don’t care and don’t know anything about the race are sure to vote, commercials that simply bang away at some ditty and ensure voter retention of the candidate’s name will be a winning tactic.
1) Your example of insultingly simplistic media campaigns being a winning tactic exists now. In fact, the entire issue of the Conservative cult is nothing more than an insultingly simplistic media campaign banging away at provably false memes, and it clearly works brilliantly, most particularly because without mandatory voting, your simplistic media campaigns don’t have to reach as many people to be successful. It will continue to exist regardless of mandatory voting or not. It exists because the voting public is not easily educated. 2) Your example of large-scale public disobedience will not happen. It won’t happen because, basically, most people are not anarchistic arseholes. Most people will do what is asked of them, especially if it has some payoff. Every census year, some sort of campaign to get Jedi registered as a religion through that sort of puerile public disobedience goes about, and it never works, because most people are not anarchistic, childish jerks. Those that are will vote Libertarian regardless, just like they do now.
This so-called ‘right to not vote’ is meaningless. You don’t have a right to not vote. At the moment, you are not required to vote. That’s it. The point is that you should be, just like you are required to pay taxes. Taxes and voting are part of the price of living in the wonderful country you live in. And that, quite simply, is the attitude that is desperately needed.
Mandatory voting is a proven and effective solution in free democracies. It moderates public opinion, it counters extremism and insanity in political movements, and it ensures a much larger mandate on the part of those who govern. It affords nothing but improvements over the current US system. The only people who have cause to fear it are those who rely on a disproportionately represented group of loud extremists and a silent majority to achieve power without a mandate, and those whose ideas cannot achieve mainstream acceptance.
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