Religious Right Pseudo-Historian Barton: The Founding Fathers Wanted Schools to Teach Creationism

OK, now this is just weird

WingnutsJune 2011 • Views: 44,295

Good grief. Sometimes the right wing gets so crazed it seems they’re about to warp themselves into another universe, where they win every argument and history means only what they want it to mean.

Here’s Glenn Beck and Michele Bachmann’s (R-Mars) favorite religious fanatic fake historian, David Barton, explaining that the founding fathers were against teaching evolution, and in favor of creationism.

Charles Darwin wasn’t even born until 1809, and didn’t publish On the Origin of Species until 1859, but that doesn’t stop Barton, of course.

Youtube Video

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109 comments

Kragar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:01:51am

Obviously the Founding Fathers were Time Lords.

laZardo Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:02:12am

Yeah, what was that about religion not being in conflict with evolution again?

Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:03:05am

What did they have to say about the Special Theory of Relativity?

Or rather, what will they have to say when they reappear in October?

reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:03:50am

I'll call Bill and Ted and ask if they still have that phone booth...
We'll get to bottom of this!/

Kragar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:04:05am

In the same interview, Barton also claimed the Founding Fathers wanted to break away from Britain so they could abolish slavery.

Youtube Video

Kronocide Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:05:13am

He's not a historian, he's a fanatical propagandist.

Batman Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:06:07am

I've been hearing about this all morning. It's amazing that the founding fathers all not only shared one mind, but also shared Barton's. It's like everything he believes, so did they. Life is strange that way, I guess.

elizajane Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:06:52am

Given that these idiots seem to think that the Constitution was a divinely inspired document, it's perfectly possible that God told them -- "Be warned, my people, for in the days and years to come, some dude named Darwin will publish this idea about evolution and I don't want your more simple-minded descendents being confused by all that stuff. Just keep them with the simple, seven-day creation story."

darthstar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:07:13am

I taught creationism when I was a high school teacher. We read Babylonian, Hindu, Native American, African, Aborigine, Eskimo, Japanese and other creation mythology. When kids asked about Genesis, I explained that it, too, was a creation myth, just like all the others...and just as credible as the story of Apsu, Tiamat, and Marduk from the Enuma Elish (the oldest creation myth - thank you Babylonia!).

Somehow, I don't think that's what Barton has in mind though.

Varek Raith Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:07:56am

Heh, calenders; How do they fucking work?!?!

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:08:25am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In the same interview, Barton also claimed the Founding Fathers wanted to break away from Britain so they could abolish slavery.

[Video]

And yet, Britain abolished slavery earlier than we did, which must mean...something. I'm not sure what, but it must mean SOMETHING.

Four More Tears Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:08:42am

re: #10 Varek Raith

Heh, calenders; How do they fucking work?!?!

One day at a time.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:09:02am

re: #7 nonsense

I've been hearing about this all morning. It's amazing that the founding fathers all not only shared one mind, but also shared Barton's. It's like everything he believes, so did they. Life is strange that way, I guess.

People like Barton are used to knowing that God believes everything they do. It's not much of a jump to the Founders.

Iwouldprefernotto Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:09:11am

The founding fathers knew that Darwin was coming... You can't explain that.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:09:12am

Since God shared all this with the founding fathers, why didn't they give us a hint?

Kragar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:09:39am

re: #11 SanFranciscoZionist

And yet, Britain abolished slavery earlier than we did, which must mean...something. I'm not sure what, but it must mean SOMETHING.

That Barton is full of shit?

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:09:48am

re: #13 SanFranciscoZionist

People like Barton are used to knowing that God believes everything they do. It's not much of a jump to the Founders.

Being as how they are demi-gods?

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:11:48am

re: #9 darthstar

I taught creationism when I was a high school teacher. We read Babylonian, Hindu, Native American, African, Aborigine, Eskimo, Japanese and other creation mythology. When kids asked about Genesis, I explained that it, too, was a creation myth, just like all the others...and just as credible as the story of Apsu, Tiamat, and Marduk from the Enuma Elish (the oldest creation myth - thank you Babylonia!).

Somehow, I don't think that's what Barton has in mind though.

When I taught high school, we had a WHOLE CLASS for religion, and a WHOLE CLASS for science, and then I picked up some slack in comparative creation stories in English. The kids were extremely well-rounded. Also, not under the impression that evolution would eat their eyeballs while they slept.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:13:31am

re: #14 Iwouldprefernotto

The founding fathers knew that Darwin was coming... You can't explain that.

That I actually cannot explain.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:13:45am

re: #16 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That Barton is full of shit?

Oh, yeah, that.

darthstar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:14:44am

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

When I taught high school, we had a WHOLE CLASS for religion, and a WHOLE CLASS for science, and then I picked up some slack in comparative creation stories in English. The kids were extremely well-rounded. Also, not under the impression that evolution would eat their eyeballs while they slept.

My catholic grade school taught evolution. Yes, we studied religion too, of course, but we didn't discount science. The Church wasn't always retarded.

watching you tiny alien kittens are Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:15:14am

Charles Darwin wasn’t even born until 1809, and didn’t publish On the Origin of Species until 1859

BREAKING NEWS!

Charles Johnson accuses the Founding Fathers of using divination and/or satanic rituals to know that they needed to oppose the evolution theory of Darwin 70 years in the future!

Sometimes the right wing gets so crazed it seems they’re about to warp themselves into another universe

Charles Johnson also accuses Christians of being multi-dimensional crazed lunatics!

/wingnut

iossarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:17:15am

Where's NJD with his list of Democratic vice-local-assistant-tiny-county chairpersons who also don't believe in evolution?

NJDhockeyfan Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:18:04am

re: #23 iossarian

Where's NJD with his list of Democratic vice-local-assistant-tiny-county chairpersons who also don't believe in evolution?

????

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:19:49am

Why does George Washington hate Charles Darwin?

laZardo Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:19:50am

I'm going to bed. Nighty.

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:20:56am

re: #25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Why does George Washington hate Charles Darwin?

Something to do with wooden teeth, most likely!

Bulworth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:21:08am

I remember when conservatives used to actually make reasonably factual arguments about the founders and the separation of church and state and such things. Now they aren't even trying.

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:21:30am

re: #25 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #27 sattv4u2

Something to do with wooden teeth, most likely!

Or the evolution of cherry trees

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:22:21am

re: #29 sattv4u2

re: #27 sattv4u2

Or the evolution of cherry trees

They used to be little monkey trees...

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:22:53am

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They used to be little monkey trees...

Awww ,, I Wuv lil monkeys

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:23:57am

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

umm,,,,the new avatar
couldn't find a bear skin rug!?!?

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:24:29am

Oh. Shit.

I sense a disturbance in the force.

The Bilderberg meeting is going on; right now.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:25:00am

re: #32 sattv4u2

Right dead sexy, no?

Varek Raith Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:25:47am

Beck: Muslim Brotherhood's New Party Name Has "George Soros And The Tides Foundation Written All Over It"

Okely dokely crackpotarino.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:26:59am

Gotta love this Rush drivel. Barton is the same.

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

From his bashing of Romney about AGW...

We're in the midst here of discovering that this is all a hoax. The last year has established that the whole premise of manmade global warming is a hoax...

Really?

This last year has seen massive predicted droughts in Texas, China and Australia. It has seen massive storms and floods in predicted patterns. It saw a winter pattern shifted as predicted. It is shaping up to be the hottest on record - after last year's hottest on record and it is only June.

Yet brainwashed drones believe ridiculous liars like Rush rather than looking at facts that are currently hitting millions of people (in America alone) over the head.

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:27:05am

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Right dead sexy, no?

Should I send you a picture of the effect it's having on me!?!?!

Bulworth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:27:25am

re: #35 Varek Raith

Beck: Muslim Brotherhood's New Party Name Has "George Soros And The Tides Foundation Written All Over It"

Okely dokely crackpotarino.

So Beck is leaving Faux, where they pay him, and going to his own network/intertubes place, where his followers can pay him?

Sounds ingenius.

theheat Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:27:37am

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you alluding to a new trend having your photo taken? Can we expect FBV photo tweets making the national newswire anytime soon?
//

Cake pr0n!

NJDhockeyfan Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:28:15am

re: #33 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh. Shit.

I sense a disturbance in the force.

The Bilderberg meeting is going on; right now.

Are you at the table?

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:28:19am

Let's not forget how Barton took it upon himself to apologize to BP for having to put up with an angry US after the spill. Poor poor BP. Barton will defend them though.

Bulworth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:29:13am

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

Gotta love this Rush drivel. Barton is the same.

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

From his bashing of Romney about AGW...

Really?

This last year has seen massive predicted droughts in Texas, China and Australia. It has seen massive storms and floods in predicted patterns. It saw a winter pattern shifted as predicted. It is shaping up to be the hottest on record - after last year's hottest on record and it is only June.

Yet brainwashed drones believe ridiculous liars like Rush rather than looking at facts that are currently hitting millions of people (in America alone) over the head.

Yeah but it snowed this winter so that means there can't be global warming. Or that if there is global warming, we humans didn't cause it. Or even if we humans did cause it we can't do anything about it because it would cost too much, etc.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:29:18am

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

Are you at the table?

Only as an appetizer.

theheat Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:29:42am

re: #41 LudwigVanQuixote

Mostly, they candyasses that need training wheels put on their history so it doesn't hurt as much when they fall down and go boom.

Bulworth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:30:08am

re: #41 LudwigVanQuixote

Let's not forget how Barton took it upon himself to apologize to BP for having to put up with an angry US after the spill. Poor poor BP. Barton will defend them though.

Different Barton. BP Barton is in Congress.

theheat Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:31:14am

re: #42 Bulworth

Or even if we humans did cause it we can't do anything about it because it would cost too much, etc.

That's the space Huntsman exists. Makes him look all science-y but not threatening.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:31:27am

re: #45 Bulworth

Different Barton. BP Barton is in Congress.

Ohh I stand corrected.

I just saw Barton and thought of BP Barton.

Varek Raith Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:31:31am

After Exxon Finds A Month’s Worth Of Oil In Gulf, GOP Rep. Claims It Proves We Have ‘Abundant’ Oil Reserves

On Wednesday, Exxon Mobil said it discovered 700 million barrels of oil equivalent at a deepwater well 250 miles off the coast of New Orleans.
The Wall Street Journal immediately trumpeted, “Exxon Unveils Big Finds in Gulf.” House Natural Resources Committee Chair Doc Hastings (R-WA), whose top industry contributor is Big Oil, dashed out a release saying the find is “a perfect example” of how “America can become less dependent on dangerous sources of foreign energy if we safely and responsibly develop the resources we know we have here at home.”

Setting aside that big ‘if’, while 700 million barrels is enough to ruin the Gulf if we get another blowout, it represents only 9 days of global oil consumption — and roughly one month’s worth of U.S. consumption.

The discovery doesn’t prove we have ‘abundant’ oil reserves, as Hastings claims. It proves the exact opposite, that ‘Drill, Baby, Drill’ can’t solve our problems. Steve Greenlee, president of Exxon Mobil’s exploration business, unintentionally admitted that when he said, “This is one of the largest discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico in the last decade.”

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:31:59am

re: #42 Bulworth

Yeah but it snowed this winter so that means there can't be global warming. Or that if there is global warming, we humans didn't cause it. Or even if we humans did cause it we can't do anything about it because it would cost too much, etc.

Yeah it's maddening.

NJDhockeyfan Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:32:10am

re: #43 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Only as an appetizer.

I found out where they are having the meeting:

Bilderberg Group meets in massive ziggurat under Stonehenge

Wiltshire - The Shadow World Government cabal has been spotted holding its AGM in the secret subterranean monument.

New World Order sources said today the highly paranoid Group, founded by MI6/KGB double agent and ex-Harold Wilson era chancellor Denis Healey, may be facing global bankruptcy.

Its decision to meet in the virtually impenetrable 1,000ft diameter inverted pyramid may be an emergency response to the discovery of a huge bugging operation of its earlier preferred venue in Gstaad, Switzerland.

The Stonehenge underground facility of terraced steps descending in successively receding levels underneath the neolithic stone erection was secretly kitted out in the 1990s as a government nuclear shelter.

Locals reckon its houses a retro-engineered alien supercomputer that generates annual crop circle formations.

Late last night Bilderberg Group members were sighted being ferried by mini-submarine from a tributary of the River Avon at nearby Amesbury to the subterranean high-tech bunker.

...

Bulworth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:32:28am

re: #47 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I stand corrected.

I just saw Barton and thought of BP Barton.

Not that there's much difference between the Bartons. I'm sure phony historian Barton believes--KNOWS--that the Founders would have sided with BP....

Four More Tears Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:33:17am

re: #48 Varek Raith

After Exxon Finds A Month’s Worth Of Oil In Gulf, GOP Rep. Claims It Proves We Have ‘Abundant’ Oil Reserves

Makes us sound like crack fiends looking for another score.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:34:06am

re: #52 JasonA

Makes us sound like crack fiends looking for another score.

And you are suggesting we aren't?

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:34:13am

re: #52 JasonA

Makes us sound like crack fiends looking for another score.

Don't kid yourself. We are crack fiends looking for another score.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:34:27am

re: #53 calochortus

GMTA.

Bulworth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:34:37am

re: #52 JasonA

Makes us sound like crack fiends looking for another score.

A whole month?! Well, that's if we don't manage to spill it all over the Gulf....

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:35:04am

I just checked out the video.

This is insanity.

At some point lying about history and spreading insane revisionist propaganda like that ought not be protected speech.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:36:01am

IMO? This? Is shitty.

Varek Raith Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:36:09am

re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote

I just checked out the video.

This is insanity.

At some point lying about history and spreading insane revisionist propaganda like that ought not be protected speech.

Have to disagree.
I'd so edit out the whole "Disco" thing from the face of human history.
/

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:37:23am

re: #55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

GMTA.

Or in the words of T.E. Lawrence, "Great minds leap together like spawning frogs."
Now there's a mental image...

elizajane Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:37:25am

re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote

I just checked out the video.

This is insanity.

At some point lying about history and spreading insane revisionist propaganda like that ought not be protected speech.

If our schools were better and the American public were actually educated, we wouldn't need to be worrying about it.
(says she whose kids have NO history class in 9th grade. NONE. They have an entire semester of "Health" instead, in a desperate program to stop them from having babies by teaching them 'ten reasons to say NO'.)

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:37:31am

re: #10 Varek Raith

I just learned (the other day) where that line came from.

M-O-O-N! THAT SPELLS FBV!

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:38:17am

re: #61 elizajane

If our schools were better and the American public were actually educated, we wouldn't need to be worrying about it.
(says she whose kids have NO history class in 9th grade. NONE. They have an entire semester of "Health" instead, in a desperate program to stop them from having babies by teaching them 'ten reasons to say NO'.)

Wow... Shakes head...

darthstar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:38:44am

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Right dead sexy, no?

You'll never catch a congressman with that pose...or maybe you will.

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:38:58am

Wingnuts discover the cause of the obesity epidemic....
Obama Is Making People Fat

“The locals have been driving me nuts and going crazy,” said Harry Dionyssiou, whose family operates six Rudy’s diners. “Everybody wants to sit at the same table, on the same chair that the president sat in; they want to eat the same thing that he ate.”

Since taking office, Obama has made dozens of stops at local eateries, diners, delis and bakeries across the country. Despite first lady Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move” initiative, which promotes healthful eating, the president is often spotted chowing down on comfort foods like burgers, meaty subs, doughnuts and other sweets during his culinary stops.

Varek Raith Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:39:44am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts discover the cause of the obesity epidemic...
Obama Is Making People Fat

Lol.
What complete, idiotic nonsense.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:39:57am

re: #61 elizajane

If our schools were better and the American public were actually educated, we wouldn't need to be worrying about it.
(says she whose kids have NO history class in 9th grade. NONE. They have an entire semester of "Health" instead, in a desperate program to stop them from having babies by teaching them 'ten reasons to say NO'.)

Well, gee, they won't be given any high-stakes tests on history so it must not be important.

My kids' take on "health" class-don't get pregnant, don't eat broken glass. Fortunately it was only 6 weeks or so out of their lives.

Iwouldprefernotto Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:40:30am

re: #41 LudwigVanQuixote

Let's not forget how Barton took it upon himself to apologize to BP for having to put up with an angry US after the spill. Poor poor BP. Barton will defend them though.

Not sure if it's the same Barton.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:40:45am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts discover the cause of the obesity epidemic...
Obama Is Making People Fat

OMG by wanting people to eat healthy diets?

Or is it NWO storm troops putting guns to the heads of obese people and making them eat McDonalds?

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:41:08am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

I thought these folks were all about personal responsibility. /

JeffM70 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:41:25am

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually there is some truth to that, as it was a clause of Jefferson's deleted from the final copy of the DOI, but it wasn't a main factor like Barton implies. And it's also been suggested the clause regarding Britain and slavery were directed at the overseas slave trade and not to the home-grown slave trade in the U.S., so again Barton was implying Jefferson's motivation was purer than it may have truly been.

darthstar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:41:31am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts discover the cause of the obesity epidemic...
Obama Is Making People Fat

It's stories like this that make me wish the President would come out and say, "My fellow Americans, please join me in a hearty 'fuck you' to Fox News for being so blatantly idiotic."

RadicalModerate Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:43:06am

re: #47 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I stand corrected.

I just saw Barton and thought of BP Barton.

Both Bartons are heavily involved with Texas.

Rep. Joe "BP" Barton is a Tea-Party, science-hating creationist from the Dallas area, who also has a tendency of skimming funds from his election donations to give relatives rather hefty amounts of cash.

David "Wallbuilders" Barton is the Christian Reconstructionist fake historian who wrote the new Texas public school textbook standards (a fact that didn't come out until he bragged about it on an interview with Jon Stewart). He also is the guy whose writings Mike Huckabee says that everyone should read and follow - by gunpoint if necessary.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:43:11am

re: #71 JeffM70

The British abolition movement was to abolish the slave trade. The law in Great Britain neither allowed nor banned slavery per se.

reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:43:15am

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

OMG by wanting people to eat healthy diets?

Or is it NWO storm troops putting guns to the heads of obese people and making them eat McDonalds?

I douht it...It has been my experience..a gun to my head is an automatic appetite and libido KILLER!

Kragar Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:43:28am

ICC: Kadhafi 'ordered mass rapes' in Libya

Investigators have evidence Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi ordered mass rapes and bought containers of sex drugs to encourage troops to attack women, the chief ICC prosecutor said.
Luis Moreno-Ocampo said he may ask for a new charge of mass rape to be made against Kadhafi following the new evidence.

The International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor is expecting a decision from judges within days on his request for charges of crimes against humanity to be laid against the Libyan leader, one of his sons and his intelligence chief.

"Now we are getting some information that Kadhafi himself decided to rape and this is new," Moreno-Ocampo told reporters.

JeffM70 Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:46:23am

re: #74 calochortus

Right, but in the deleted clause Jefferson listed the crown's refusal to allow the colonies to ban the overseas slave trade as one of the reasons for independence.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:47:33am

re: #67 calochortus

Well, gee, they won't be given any high-stakes tests on history so it must not be important.

My kids' take on "health" class-don't get pregnant, don't eat broken glass. Fortunately it was only 6 weeks or so out of their lives.

I thank Reagan for such classes...

It used to be health class was about less about Christian propaganda and more about what is actually down there, how it works and what contraceptives work.

The whole "just say no" thing was the first major bit of GOP utter disconnect from reality I recall being old enough to see as utterly stupid first hand.

These people seem to honestly think that the universe will operate the way they wish it does, just for them.

If they don't like historical facts - rewrite them...

If people don't behave in convenient ways, tell them that unnatural behavior is normal while normal behavior is sinful - and whatever you do, don't give them real information about those things.

Science got you down... well just pretend physics doesn't happen.

This is a giant delusion.

I wish research were here to comment on this aspect of it. At some point, complete denial of reality and the megalomania it must take to believe one can re-write it, are some form of psychiatric illness.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:48:13am

re: #77 JeffM70

Yes, when I reread my post it sounded as though I was disagreeing in some fashion, I was merely expanding on the topic a bit. You are absolutely correct.

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:48:59am

re: #35 Varek Raith

Beck: Muslim Brotherhood's New Party Name Has "George Soros And The Tides Foundation Written All Over It"

Okely dokely crackpotarino.

Because the Muslim Brotherhood could never have come up with a party name made up of a couple of positive-sounding with-the-times nouns on their own!

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:49:52am

re: #73 RadicalModerate

Both Bartons are heavily involved with Texas.

Rep. Joe "BP" Barton is a Tea-Party, science-hating creationist from the Dallas area, who also has a tendency of skimming funds from his election donations to give relatives rather hefty amounts of cash.

David "Wallbuilders" Barton is the Christian Reconstructionist fake historian who wrote the new Texas public school textbook standards (a fact that didn't come out until he bragged about it on an interview with Jon Stewart). He also is the guy whose writings Mike Huckabee says that everyone should read and follow - by gunpoint if necessary.

And both are insanely creepy!

Of course you are correct. And yet another WTF is wrong with Texas moment really.

That's what I get for writing a comment without looking at the video first. It became pretty clear from the video I thought of the wrong Barton first.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:50:13am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

The only food I really miss as a vegetarian? Hot dogs.

That one looked delicious.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:51:57am

re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote

I will actually defend my kids' high school a bit here-they were taught some practical facts, and there may have been kids who didn't know some of the stuff. I'm pretty confident it was nothing my kids hadn't learned years earlier.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:53:04am

re: #83 calochortus

I will actually defend my kids' high school a bit here-they were taught some practical facts, and there may have been kids who didn't know some of the stuff. I'm pretty confident it was nothing my kids hadn't learned years earlier.

There is tremendous variation in what gets taught about this. I'm glad your kids HS wasn't totally useless.

calochortus Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:56:14am

re: #84 LudwigVanQuixote

There is tremendous variation in what gets taught about this. I'm glad your kids HS wasn't totally useless.

I'm glad too ;-) My kids' high school was (and is) probably a nightmare to try to administer-half the kids came from affluent and educated neighborhoods and the other half were low income and came from elementary/middle school districts that were, umm, less than stellar.

Lidane Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:03:35am

I wouldn't give a shit about Barton and his delusions if he kept them to himself. The fact that he has the attention of the Texas State Board of Education should scare people.

This is the kind of shit he wants your kids and grandkids to learn and believe as fact. Think about that. He wants your kids and grandkids to be stupid and consumed by magical thinking instead of, you know, real history and facts.

Iwouldprefernotto Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:05:13am

re: #73 RadicalModerate

Both Bartons are heavily involved with Texas.

Rep. Joe "BP" Barton is a Tea-Party, science-hating creationist from the Dallas area, who also has a tendency of skimming funds from his election donations to give relatives rather hefty amounts of cash.

David "Wallbuilders" Barton is the Christian Reconstructionist fake historian who wrote the new Texas public school textbook standards (a fact that didn't come out until he bragged about it on an interview with Jon Stewart). He also is the guy whose writings Mike Huckabee says that everyone should read and follow - by gunpoint if necessary.

Change your name to Palin and you never have to stand corrected. Just get your fans to change history on wikiepedia.

jaunte Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:14:16am

When argument from authority is all you have, it's amazing how many famous people and supernatural beings agree with you.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:14:32am

re: #73 RadicalModerate

David "Wallbuilders" Barton is the Christian Reconstructionist fake historian who wrote the new Texas public school textbook standards (a fact that didn't come out until he bragged about it on an interview with Jon Stewart). He also is the guy whose writings Mike Huckabee says that everyone should read and follow - by gunpoint if necessary.

Mild correction: Bartion is not Christian Reconstructionist, he's in the Evangelical/Robertson/Regent U camp. He and Bachmann share an alma mater, Oral Roberts University, which is Charismatic/Pentecostal.

Just trying to keep our bigots squared away :)

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:16:55am

re: #35 Varek Raith

Beck: Muslim Brotherhood's New Party Name Has "George Soros And The Tides Foundation Written All Over It"

Okely dokely crackpotarino.

I just wonder how many idiots are going to pay the $5 to listen to him spew this crap.

SidewaysQuark Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:21:07am

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

Gotta love this Rush drivel. Barton is the same.

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

From his bashing of Romney about AGW...

Really?

This last year has seen massive predicted droughts in Texas, China and Australia. It has seen massive storms and floods in predicted patterns. It saw a winter pattern shifted as predicted. It is shaping up to be the hottest on record - after last year's hottest on record and it is only June.

Yet brainwashed drones believe ridiculous liars like Rush rather than looking at facts that are currently hitting millions of people (in America alone) over the head.

Global warming is definitely real, but singling out the last two years of data is a bad way to support it, in my humble opinion. Two hot years can very well be an anomaly, as could two colder years. The evidence in support of global warming is the general trend over decades (along with a plethora of evidence from other avenues of inquiry).

Just saying, one has to constantly check one's own tendency to cherrypick evidence, even when (in fact, ESPECIALLY when) it supports an accurate model.

Phydeaux Speaks Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:23:12am

As I wrote elsewhere:

That's just how AWESOME the Founding Fathers were!! They just KNEW.

Like the little known Ben Franklin broadside: "On The Propensity For Controlled Matter-Antimatter Explosions And Their Application For Superluminal Space Travel"

RadicalModerate Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:24:45am

re: #89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Mild correction: Bartion is not Christian Reconstructionist, he's in the Evangelical/Robertson/Regent U camp. He and Bachmann share an alma mater, Oral Roberts University, which is Charismatic/Pentecostal.

Just trying to keep our bigots squared away :)

Robertson is a Domininionist/Reconstructionist.

A Parallel Column Comparison of R. J. Rushdoony's Words with Pat Robertson's

SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:31:13am

re: #82 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The only food I really miss as a vegetarian? Hot dogs.

That one looked delicious.

My major regrets about kashrut?

Char siu bao and In 'n Out Burgers.

RadicalModerate Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:31:44am

re: #93 RadicalModerate

And here's the evidence of David Barton's Dominionism:

David Barton Advocates Seven Mountains Dominionism

Green: So it's the same idea, saying "look, every single area of the culture you need to be involved in."

Barton: That's right. Christians got to get involved. And there's a Scripture they used that came out of Isiah 2:2 and it says "Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains," so this is now called the Seven Mountain Prophecy, there's a book out by that name.

It says the Lord's house is going to be established on top of the mountains and these are the seven mountains. If you're going to establish God's kingdom, you've got to have these seven mountains and again that's family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government.

Now that's what we believed all along is you got to get involved in this stuff. Jesus said "you occupy 'til I come." We don't care when he comes, that's up to him. What we're supposed to do is take the culture in the meantime and you got to get involved in these seven areas.

abolitionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:49:00am

David Barton: Christians Must Control The Culture
Clip transcript:
We so.. we so pushed from the bottom up that that was the culture. People expected that kind of stuff, and that's what we have to do. We have to be pushing the culture from bottom up, to where the guys who have a secular viewpoint cannot survive. Because we are responsible.. if the press lacks moral discrimination, it's because we haven't been pushing our people to chop that kind of news off.

Just shoot me, Huckabee.

RanchTooth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:03:37pm

He makes an EXCELLENT point, actually. As a part of the scientific method of studying evolution (or any scientific theory), creationism should be examined for what it leaves out and what it doesn't address, and in the opposite, how evolution continuously evolves as a scientific theory with new data and how it does address what is observed. Whether or not Thomas Paine advocated for that, as he claims, is irrelevant.

Mad Prophet Ludwig Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:14:50pm

re: #91 SidewaysQuark

Global warming is definitely real, but singling out the last two years of data is a bad way to support it, in my humble opinion. Two hot years can very well be an anomaly, as could two colder years. The evidence in support of global warming is the general trend over decades (along with a plethora of evidence from other avenues of inquiry).

Just saying, one has to constantly check one's own tendency to cherrypick evidence, even when (in fact, ESPECIALLY when) it supports an accurate model.

I am hardly singling out the last two years of data. You should read some of my scientific posts on the topic. I have many that coever the last several hundred thousand years.

The projections referred to predicting all of these droughts were made as early as the 90's - and in general terms, the 80's.

abolitionist Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:19:08pm

re: #97 RanchTooth

Creationism is merely advocacy for teaching of fundamentalist religious beliefs, with a somewhat more secular veneer. It isn't about science and does not belong in a science classroom. It may be appropriate in a class on religion or philosophy, but not science.

100

Achilles Tang Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:47:35pm

re: #97 RanchTooth

He makes an EXCELLENT point, actually. As a part of the scientific method of studying evolution (or any scientific theory), creationism should be examined for what it leaves out and what it doesn't address, and in the opposite, how evolution continuously evolves as a scientific theory with new data and how it does address what is observed. Whether or not Thomas Paine advocated for that, as he claims, is irrelevant.

I think you make the same error that creationists do; namely suggest that creationism has anything at all to do with "scientific methodology". It doesn't and therefore by definition has no place in science, nor does it offer anything to "study".

101

RanchTooth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:13:48pm

re: #100 Naso Tang

I think you make the same error that creationists do; namely suggest that creationism has anything at all to do with "scientific methodology". It doesn't and therefore by definition has no place in science, nor does it offer anything to "study".

That's my point exactly! You can be scientific in analyzing another's methods, whether or not they are true/have any scientific merit is up to the scientist. And when one studies the data, they will OBVIOUSLY come to the conclusion that creationism is flawed. I'm not saying there is ANY scientific methodology to creationism, but as a basis for studying evolution, you can look at opposing theories, deconstruct them, and prove why yours is correct. I'm a scientist, creationism is bunk. BUNK I SAY!

102

RanchTooth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:17:22pm

re: #99 abolitionist

Creationism is merely advocacy for teaching of fundamentalist religious beliefs, with a somewhat more secular veneer. It isn't about science and does not belong in a science classroom. It may be appropriate in a class on religion or philosophy, but not science.

Again, as a method for studying the science of evolution, yes, you should not be teaching creationism, but to deconstruct the claims it makes and compare them to data and artifacts that science has, it does have a place in the scientific method. For example, we teach previous theories of how genetic information was passed on before we knew what DNA was and why that was wrong, not because we want to confuse students, but we want to show the scientific method and how things are proven.

103

Achilles Tang Thu, Jun 9, 2011 2:06:25pm

re: #101 RanchTooth

Yes, we agree on the fundamentals, but I am simply saying that there is nothing to study in creationism; or nothing that hasn't been studied and dismissed, just like the flat earth theory has been.

If I understand you correctly, you advocate letting loose the scientific method on creationism, and it will be found to be wanting.

The problem is that has already has been done and rejected, but by allowing that concept into schools it gives the creationists the forum for their version of science and legitimizes the idea that they have an alternative theory, which will not be countered in those places where they are able to get teachers to teach it.

You don't think we will ever see a classroom with a creationist teacher and an evolutionist scientist debating in front of the kids, do you?

104

RanchTooth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 2:56:21pm

re: #103 Naso Tang

The problem is that has already has been done and rejected, but by allowing that concept into schools it gives the creationists the forum for their version of science and legitimizes the idea that they have an alternative theory, which will not be countered in those places where they are able to get teachers to teach it.

My point is what we're agreeing on... and what Mr. Barton said as well (whether he realized it or not). We should hold creationism to the scientific method. As we both know, it has been done, and it has failed. Most schoolchildren probably don't know that. By going through the scientific method and showing why it doesn't work hardly legitimizes it as a scientific theory.

You don't think we will ever see a classroom with a creationist teacher and an evolutionist scientist debating in front of the kids, do you?

Absolutely not. A creationist "teacher" has no place in a science classroom. What they practice isn't science. Nor would this be something I advocate for.

105

Achilles Tang Thu, Jun 9, 2011 3:51:08pm

re: #104 RanchTooth

I'm afraid that we are not communicating well. You are essentially advocating treating creationism as one possible theory and letting it fall on its own.

The point I am trying to make is that this has been done, since Darwin, yet creationism is still alive and well.

You cannot place it next to evolution in a classroom and then have a real teacher knock it down point by point simply because that would amount to a religious insult to those who do believe and the parents would not stand for it.

If however you tried to do this what would happen is that some schools would have creationist teachers who would in effect teach creationism while knocking down evolution. Poor scientific method perhaps, but creationists don't care about that.

The only way evolution can be taught is as science without reference to creationism. The logic will do its own work in the minds of those willing to learn.

106

garhighway Thu, Jun 9, 2011 4:02:52pm

re: #105 Naso Tang

I'm afraid that we are not communicating well. You are essentially advocating treating creationism as one possible theory and letting it fall on its own.

The point I am trying to make is that this has been done, since Darwin, yet creationism is still alive and well.

You cannot place it next to evolution in a classroom and then have a real teacher knock it down point by point simply because that would amount to a religious insult to those who do believe and the parents would not stand for it.

If however you tried to do this what would happen is that some schools would have creationist teachers who would in effect teach creationism while knocking down evolution. Poor scientific method perhaps, but creationists don't care about that.

The only way evolution can be taught is as science without reference to creationism. The logic will do its own work in the minds of those willing to learn.

Exactly right. Teach science as science and religion as religion.

107

RanchTooth Thu, Jun 9, 2011 6:33:28pm

re: #105 Naso Tang

You cannot place it next to evolution in a classroom and then have a real teacher knock it down point by point simply because that would amount to a religious insult to those who do believe and the parents would not stand for it.

You absolutely can (and should), and if that's how they feel, that's their problem. Not my fault they believe faulty science/logic.

If however you tried to do this what would happen is that some schools would have creationist teachers who would in effect teach creationism while knocking down evolution. Poor scientific method perhaps, but creationists don't care about that.

That's a really good point. I guess all I could say is that those teachers are poor teachers from the get go... but we already agree on that.

The only way evolution can be taught is as science without reference to creationism. The logic will do its own work in the minds of those willing to learn.

Agreed.

108

Achilles Tang Thu, Jun 9, 2011 7:20:45pm

re: #107 RanchTooth

You absolutely can (and should), and if that's how they feel, that's their problem. Not my fault they believe faulty science/logic.

There are many other religious issues that can be discounted by science. This is only one of the most prominent. Start attacking that, directly, in school and it will be a no win for education.

The principle we have is separation of church and state and that extends to state education. Teach the science and let the believers sort out the conflicts at home, but don't attack them with state institutions.

109

Achilles Tang Thu, Jun 9, 2011 7:21:05pm

goodnight

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Religious Right Pseudo-Historian Barton: The Founding Fathers Wanted Schools to Teach Creationism

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