Is Pat Buchanan Fired from MSNBC?

Or will the hatemonger be back?
Media • Views: 31,282

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

The fact that MSNBC still thinks there’s a real decision to make here tells me that they are cynically hoping that the furor dies down so they can slip him back on air later. After all is said and done, propagating a hater’s viewpoints as news is actually a greater evil than Pat’s books.

Pat Buchanan’s views (as expressed for decades on the air, in books, at VDARE and Townhall and Human Events) coincide so closely to the terrorist manifesto of Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik that the real differences are somewhat immaterial.

The only real difference is the extremes to which they would personally go in order to defend the theoretically threatened white Christian (culture, civilization, tradition, ethnicity, race, and several other code and buzzwords that nativists all understand). I don’t believe that Pat has ever called for violence, but his words could easily lead crazy nativists and supremacists to conclude that extreme measures are needed to “defend” (their faith, civilization, traditions, ethnicity, etc.). Indeed, it’s the same logic used by fundamentalist extremists everywhere, and Pat just loves to feed it.

Bottom line: that MSNBC’s leaders are even considering allowing him back is just disgusting.

MSNBC’s top executive said Saturday that he hasn’t decided whether conservative commentator and author Pat Buchanan will be allowed back on the network.

Buchanan, a former GOP presidential candidate and a paid MSNBC contributor, hasn’t been on the network since the publication of his book “Suicide of a Superpower” last October. The book has chapters titled “The End of White America” and “The Death of Christian America” and its author argues that the United States is in the “Indian summer of our civilization.”

“When Pat was on his book tour, because of the content of the book, I didn’t think it should be part of the national dialogue much less part of the dialogue on MSNBC,” said MSNBC President Phil Griffin. The minority advocacy group Color of Change has circulated a petition urging MSNBC to fire Buchanan.

Buchanan did appear for an interview about his book in October on Fox News Channel’s “Hannity,” where host Sean Hannity said, “welcome out of exile.”

Griffin would not discuss the length of Buchanan’s contract with MSNBC or whether it would be renewed.

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237 comments
2 albusteve  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 11:54:22am

gloom and doom...
indian summer....
the end is near....
the 11th hour...
sure Pat, and all brought to you by the GOP

3 Surabaya Stew  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:00:17pm

I certainly hope so.

4 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:01:44pm

How many times have we seen this in TV, in radio, and in newsprint? Person A says/does something that viewers react negatively to, forcing company to yank them for fear of backlash. Weeks/months go by, the controversy dies down, and Person A is quietly welcomed back, first as a "guest commentator" or similarly low-key appearance, then eventually as a full-time employee again.

5 albusteve  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:03:07pm

re: #4 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How many times have we seen this in TV, in radio, and in newsprint? Person A says/does something that viewers react negatively to, forcing company to yank them for fear of backlash. Weeks/months go by, the controversy dies down, and Person A is quietly welcomed back, first as a "guest commentator" or similarly low-key appearance, then eventually as a full-time employee again.

the Mob does that...when it gets hot, guys are off the streets til it cools off

6 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:04:33pm

They should fire him. They should have fired him long ago. That they don't is sickeningly cynical. There is no good reason not to cut him loose.

7 Mattand  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:04:41pm

IMO, the most likely scenario is that MSNBC will get a vist from the Magical Balance Fairy™ and bring Buchanan back. I wish Griffin would grow a fucking spine and say "This guy is an ignorant racist and he's not welcome here".

It's funny how they couldn't wait to get rid of Olbermann but had no problem keeping Buchanan around. Not to excuse any bad Olbermann behavior, but for all his faults, he's not a borderline Klansman in a suit and tie like ol' Pat.

8 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:08:35pm

I don't understand the attachment to him. Is it that hard to find a conservative voice that isn't bigoted? Surely they could find someone else.

9 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:11:03pm

re: #8 moderatelyradicalliberal

Sure, they could. The speculation for why they don't includes the semi-absurd-- that they use him in order to make the modern GOP look bad, which is kind of bizarre since he's really not outside the GOP mainstream.

I think he's their guy because he has high name recognition, and they're a soulless, scuzzy modern media corporation.

10 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:11:32pm

But... But... Buchanan is a renaissance man... He knows a little bit about everything: Politics, race, sports, white power, Cajun cooking, jews and embroidery. He's a valuable contributor to MSNBC.

11 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:11:48pm

There are lots of conservatives who could be the MSNBC token without being a major attractant for the the neo-nazi/neo-confederate/nieuw recht crowd. I think MSNBC knows that they are a captive niche audience with not many other places to go as long as they keep Pat on. So they put Pat out there to not only gain that audience, but also to show "how bad the right is" to the average Moderate or leftist viewer. It's intellectually lazy -- if they want honest debate from conservatives, they need to find better representatives from the right and hold a real discussion / debate.

12 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:13:44pm

The US is certainly getting less "white" over the coming decades but I'm not sure what the projections are for Christianity. I'm sort of curious now. In the England I believe it is mostly "white people" that make up the atheist majority.

13 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:14:12pm

re: #11 Thanos

I don't think that's the case, really. Buchanan is really not much worse than Hannity. He's a lot better than Beck.

Modern media conservatives do a fine job of showing how batshit insane they are without MSNBC's help.

I can't think of a single unbigoted voice from the 'right' side of the aisle who has significant name recognition. Sure, there's people who are less lovey-dovey with the Nazis, but that's a pretty low bar.

14 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:14:37pm

re: #8 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't understand the attachment to him. Is it that hard to find a conservative voice that isn't bigoted?

yes

15 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:15:23pm

re: #8 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't understand the attachment to him. Is it that hard to find a conservative voice that isn't bigoted? Surely they could find someone else.

Or maybe like him BECAUSE he is that type of right winger ...

16 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:15:42pm

re: #14 Sergey Romanov

yes

Well, it's not that hard to find, but it is hard to find one who other conservatives aren't busy calling a RINO and who anyone has heard of.

17 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:16:24pm

re: #13 Obdicut

Yes, but even Fox couldn't keep Beck on.

18 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:16:52pm

re: #15 _RememberTonyC

Or maybe like him BECAUSE he is that type of right winger ...

Isn't this a little conspiracy-story thinking, though? I mean, they also show Morning Joe, which has the significantly-less-crazy Joe Scarborough for three hours, five days a week.

19 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:16:54pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Well, it's not that hard to find, but it is hard to find one who other conservatives aren't busy calling a RINO and who anyone has heard of.

Thanks. I was thinking about how to reply to that one, but that pretty much sums it up.

20 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:16:59pm

re: #9 Obdicut

Sure, they could. The speculation for why they don't includes the semi-absurd-- that they use him in order to make the modern GOP look bad, which is kind of bizarre since he's really not outside the GOP mainstream.

I think he's their guy because he has high name recognition, and they're a soulless, scuzzy modern media corporation.

It is not that absurd to think they like that sort of far righty ...

21 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:17:41pm

re: #13 Obdicut

I can't think of a single unbigoted voice from the 'right' side of the aisle who has significant name recognition. Sure, there's people who are less lovey-dovey with the Nazis, but that's a pretty low bar.

Seems like the ones that aren't closet brownshirts are freebasing Jesus junkies. Doesn't leave a lot of room for anyone else.

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:17:51pm

the truth is, buchanan's views are qualitatively morally as bad as those of the most of republican candidates. the only reason he gets more bad rap is because his kind of bigotry is packaged in a slightly outdated cover.

23 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:18:01pm

re: #8 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't understand the attachment to him. Is it that hard to find a conservative voice that isn't bigoted? Surely they could find someone else.

There's a little bigotry in all of us.

24 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:18:05pm

re: #20 _RememberTonyC

It is not that absurd to think they like that sort of far righty ...

Then why do they have Joe Scarborough, if their eeevul plan is to make conservatives appear bad by putting Buchanan up there?

25 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:18:24pm

re: #15 _RememberTonyC

Don't you ever work?

here I am, juggling NFL playoffs, NCAA BBall, soccer from South America ,,, news feeds ,,,,
and you ,, nuffin!

26 M. Dubious  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:18:27pm

re: #17 Thanos

Yes, but even Fox couldn't keep Beck on.

They grew apart. Not even Delaware can house Beck's head now.

27 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:18:33pm

re: #22 Sergey Romanov

the truth is, buchanan's views are qualitatively morally as bad as those of the most of republican candidates. the only reason he gets more bad rap is because his kind of bigotry is packaged in a slightly outdated cover.

I actually prefer the old cover because it matches the contents much more honestly.

28 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:19:25pm

re: #22 Sergey Romanov

Not really. Excepting Ron Paul, most of them are not white supremacists.

29 albusteve  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:19:28pm

Pat's an old big hitter...he has value...principle has nothing to do with it....he's a product

30 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:19:52pm

re: #27 Alexzander

I actually prefer the old cover because it matches the contents much more honestly.

yeah. at least he is somewhat forthright. otherwise he would simply stick to bashing muslims and gays.

31 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:21:09pm

re: #27 Alexzander

I actually prefer the old cover because it matches the contents much more honestly.

Yep, he's fairly honest about the hate, rather than trying to package it as "concern" or "caring" or (my favorite) "family values."

32 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:21:25pm

re: #28 Thanos

Not really. Excepting Ron Paul, most of them are not white supremacists.

yes really. i did not say they were identical. i said they were morally qualitatively equal. if you don't find anti-Muslim or anti-lgbt bigotry to be as bad as white supremacism, i don't know what to say.

33 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:21:34pm

re: #18 Obdicut

Isn't this a little conspiracy-story thinking, though? I mean, they also show Morning Joe, which has the significantly-less-crazy Joe Scarborough for three hours, five days a week.

I don't see it as a conspiracy theory. I have been a TV producer for more than 30 years so I have some experience with these things. When we decide to put people on a show to have a discussion, we like it better when sparks fly. In order to do that, sometimes people with extreme opinions are needed or else everyone agrees, which makes for boring TV. That said, I would never hire a man like Buchanan because he is clearly an evil individual with a long track record of promoting divisiveness and hatred.

34 Digital Display  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:21:53pm

re: #25 sattv4u2

Don't you ever work?

here I am, juggling NFL playoffs, NCAA BBall, soccer from South America ,,, news feeds ,,,
and you ,, nuffin!

Anytime you want to crash the Falcons-Giants game go for it..
Worst of the weekend.. It is nice seeing a Manning in the play-offs though

35 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:21:55pm

It's a good observation however that Pat is kinda cut from the same "Father Coughlan's Legacy" cloth as Sean Hannity.

36 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:22:20pm

re: #25 sattv4u2

Don't you ever work?

here I am, juggling NFL playoffs, NCAA BBall, soccer from South America ,,, news feeds ,,,
and you ,, nuffin!

My shows come on at 1:00am ... Do the math :)

37 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:22:27pm

OT-but funny

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Obama Openly Asks Nation Why On Earth He Would Want To Serve For Another Term

PITTSBURGH—Citing three years of exhausting partisan politics, constant gridlock in Congress, and an overall feeling that the entire nation has "completely lost it," President Barack Obama openly asked a campaign-rally crowd Tuesday why he'd want to serve another term as president of "this godforsaken country."

"My fellow Americans, I come to you today to ask, why?" Obama said to 1,200 people gathered inside a gymnasium at Taylor Allderdice High School. "Why can't our congressional leaders work together to create jobs? Why can't Wall Street ever be held accountable? And most important, why on God's green earth would I voluntarily subject myself to this nonsense for another four years?"
......
In the coming weeks, Obama will reportedly continue to take his anti-second-term message across the country, asking ordinary Americans if they agree that his being on the ballot in November would make him a complete and total moron. Sources within the president's new "One Goddamn Reason" campaign confirmed he is genuinely curious to see if one American citizen can tell him why leaving the White House isn't the best thing he could possibly do for himself and his family.

38 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:22:35pm

re: #34 HoosierHoops

Anytime you want to crash the Falcons-Giants game go for it..
Worst of the weekend.. It is nice seeing a Manning in the play-offs though

I would,, but have you any idea how many forms I have to fill out after I do !?!?!

39 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:23:15pm

re: #8 moderatelyradicalliberal

Is it that hard to find a conservative voice that isn't bigoted?

Sure it is. These days, you really have to look, though, apparently.

40 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:23:20pm

re: #33 _RememberTonyC

I don't see it as a conspiracy theory. I have been a TV producer for more than 30 years so I have some experience with these things. When we decide to put people on a show to have a discussion, we like it better when sparks fly. In order to do that, sometimes people with extreme opinions are needed or else everyone agrees, which makes for boring TV. That said, I would never hire a man like Buchanan because he is clearly an evil individual with a long track record of promoting divisiveness and hatred.

But any random dude from the GOP or 'conservative' side of the aisle you pick these days is going to have extreme opinions.

41 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:23:21pm

re: #24 Obdicut

Then why do they have Joe Scarborough, if their eeevul plan is to make conservatives appear bad by putting Buchanan up there?

They have a lot of airtime to fill ... There is no evil plan.

42 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:23:57pm

re: #34 HoosierHoops

Anytime you want to crash the Falcons-Giants game go for it..
Worst of the weekend.. It is nice seeing a Manning in the play-offs though

Sweet Jeebus this game sucks. It's 17-2 in the 4th. I really have to question a lot of the decisions Atlanta has made today. Just terrible coaching all the way around.

43 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:24:02pm

re: #32 Sergey Romanov

yes really. i did not say they were identical. i said they were morally qualitatively equal. if you don't find anti-Muslim or anti-lgbt bigotry to be as bad as white supremacism, i don't know what to say.

Or find that there are so often overlaps with all of them.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:24:54pm

some conservatives like to bash paul and buchanan because it comes easily.
saying "the rest of our party is as f'd up as those two guys" however is impossible for them.

45 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:25:06pm

re: #40 Obdicut

But any random dude from the GOP or 'conservative' side of the aisle you pick these days is going to have extreme opinions.

I know there are extreme opinions on the right,as there are on the left. But with a 24 hour news cycle and three 24 hour news networks, there is a lot of airtime to fill.

46 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:25:15pm

re: #36 _RememberTonyC

My shows come on at 1:00am ... Do the math :)

K,,,, so after I've driven for an hour and fifteen minutes TO work ,, spend 12 hours AT work ,,, drive an hour and fifteen minutes home ,, THEN you get to give orders for an hour!!!

//

47 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:25:27pm

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

48 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:25:45pm

re: #29 albusteve

Pat's an old big hitter...he has value...principle has nothing to do with it...he's a product

That's entertainment, as the song says.

49 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:26:12pm

re: #40 Obdicut

But any random dude from the GOP or 'conservative' side of the aisle you pick these days is going to have extreme opinions.

Because, like a lot of cranky old men, he has no problem with saying whatever comes to mind without caring if it offends others. Better than some young buck who will hem and haw, trying to cover the bigotry and hatred in a "family-friendly" wrapper.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:26:18pm

re: #47 Alexzander

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

if i could ding you more!

51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:26:43pm

re: #42 Lidane

Then? Poof... 24-2.

52 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:26:57pm

re: #45 _RememberTonyC

I know there are extreme opinions on the right,as there are on the left. But with a 24 hour news cycle and three 24 hour news networks, there is a lot of airtime to fill.

That's hardly my point. Buchanan's views are not out of the mainstream in the GOP today, or what passes for the 'conservative' viewpoint. And MSNBC has nobody on it who has a far-left viewpoint, nor ever did.

Who should they get other than Buchanan who would present the modern 'conservative' viewpoint in a less bigoted fashion?

53 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:27:26pm

re: #47 Alexzander

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

So did you catch the game last night?

54 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:27:50pm

re: #47 Alexzander

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

Try living in the South and not giving a damn about NASCAR.

55 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:28:11pm

re: #46 sattv4u2

K,,, so after I've driven for an hour and fifteen minutes TO work ,, spend 12 hours AT work ,,, drive an hour and fifteen minutes home ,, THEN you get to give orders for an hour!!!

//

You WILL watch NBA Tonight ... You will watch it live, then you will record it and watch it again ... Any questions?

56 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:28:22pm

re: #47 Alexzander

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

In Football America, TV watches you.

57 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:28:28pm

re: #51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Then? Poof... 24-2.

And Atlanta's coaching still sucks.

Oh well. Seeing the Giants go up against the Packers next week would be a more interesting game anyway.

58 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:28:32pm

re: #47 Alexzander

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

Yeah ,, all those people that derive their income from it (excluding the obvious,, athletes)

Camermen,,, directors,, sound techs,, video engineers,,, production truck operators,, support staffs,, graphic designers ,,,

Maybe they should all get a job at Wal Mart instead!

59 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:28:38pm

re: #53 Obdicut

So did you catch the game last night?

Which one, Night Lords vs Blood Angels or Tau vs Necrons?

60 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:28:57pm

BBIAB

61 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:30:13pm

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Which one, Night Lords vs Blood Angels or Tau vs Necrons?

Why do you land on a planet just to hit a guy with a sword?

Couldn't you just drop the sword on him from orbit?

62 Digital Display  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:30:55pm

re: #42 Lidane

Sweet Jeebus this game sucks. It's 17-2 in the 4th. I really have to question a lot of the decisions Atlanta has made today. Just terrible coaching all the way around.

TD! Wouldn't it weird to have Eli Manning in the Superbowl in Indy? Peyton's house?
I'll be in Indy for SB week and will be live blogging from Downtown..I'll be staying at Paulie's house and not be paying 500 bucks a night for a hotel room..
A Superbowl in Indy is going to be awesome!

63 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:31:14pm

re: #61 Obdicut

Why do you land on a planet just to hit a guy with a sword?

Couldn't you just drop the sword on him from orbit?

But then you would have to land and find the sword, plus you have to go down to steal his stuff anyways.

64 blueraven  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:31:19pm

re: #52 Obdicut

That's hardly my point. Buchanan's views are not out of the mainstream in the GOP today, or what passes for the 'conservative' viewpoint. And MSNBC has nobody on it who has a far-left viewpoint, nor ever did.

Who should they get other than Buchanan who would present the modern 'conservative' viewpoint in a less bigoted fashion?

Well Michael Steele is an MSNBC analyst now. So there is one.

I think the reason they kept Buchanan is that...if you are not familiar with his extreme views, he comes across as a congenial but crazy uncle type. He has a lot of anecdotes from the Nixon days and he is a good story teller. He is entertainment.

65 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:31:54pm

re: #55 _RememberTonyC

You WILL watch NBA Tonight ... You will watch it live, then you will record it and watch it again ... Any questions?

Yeah. Can I watch something else instead? ;)

66 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:32:41pm

re: #52 Obdicut

That's hardly my point. Buchanan's views are not out of the mainstream in the GOP today, or what passes for the 'conservative' viewpoint. And MSNBC has nobody on it who has a far-left viewpoint, nor ever did.

Who should they get other than Buchanan who would present the modern 'conservative' viewpoint in a less bigoted fashion?

Nobody on MSNBC has a far left viewpoint? Or ever did? maybe not as far left as Buchanan is far right, but certainly left of center in many cases. Or did you think Olbermann, Schultz, and Maddow were righties?

67 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:32:58pm

re: #61 Obdicut

Why do you land on a planet just to hit a guy with a sword?

Couldn't you just drop the sword on him from orbit?

Because the sword would melt on reentry. Instead, use a tungsten rod about the size of a crowbar, fitting with a guidance module and fins. Voila, you've just created a device that hits with all the power of a small tactical nuke, with none of the fallout or radiation, that can hit any spot on the face of the globe.

68 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:33:25pm

re: #58 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, all those people that derive their income from it (excluding the obvious,, athletes)

Camermen,,, directors,, sound techs,, video engineers,,, production truck operators,, support staffs,, graphic designers ,,,

Maybe they should all get a job at Wal Mart instead!

Are you suggesting that the only two paths in America are big business sports (complete with Idiocracy levels of sponsorship) or the culturally vacuous chinese warehouses known as walmart?

69 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:33:48pm

re: #65 Lidane

Yeah. Can I watch something else instead? ;)

Nope ... Sorry :)

70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:33:48pm

re: #66 _RememberTonyC

Nobody on MSNBC has a far left viewpoint? Or ever did? maybe not as far left as Buchanan is far right, but certainly left of center in many cases. Or did you think Olbermann, Schultz, and Maddow were righties?

They are definitely not far left, by any stretch.

71 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:33:50pm

re: #64 blueraven

Steele is just so incoherent he's hard to take seriously. He's kind of Romney-esque; his positions tend to evolve very rapidly depending on who's asking the questions.

72 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:33:54pm

re: #68 Alexzander

Are you suggesting that the only two paths in America are big business sports (complete with Idiocracy levels of sponsorship) or the culturally vacuous chinese warehouses known as walmart?

Yes ,, thats exactly what I said!

{sigh}

73 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:34:33pm

re: #71 Obdicut

Steele is just so incoherent he's hard to take seriously. He's kind of Romney-esque; his positions tend to evolve very rapidly depending on who's asking the questions.

His Twitter feed was hilarious last night. He was flailing about that terrible debate.

74 Digital Display  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:35:16pm

re: #55 _RememberTonyC

You WILL watch NBA Tonight ... You will watch it live, then you will record it and watch it again ... Any questions?

Right now..It's heaven.. They have been showing all the Indiana teams here live.. IU? OMG? Butler? And the Pacers? Thunder? I'm in Heaven Tony..
Even OU is doing great with Lon coaching..

75 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:35:45pm

re: #66 _RememberTonyC

Nobody on MSNBC has a far left viewpoint? Or ever did?

Yep.

maybe not as far left as Buchanan is far right, but certainly left of center in many cases.

Yes. Left of center.

Or did you think Olbermann, Schultz, and Maddow were righties?

I did forget about Ed Shultz, who's not so much far-left as he is an asshole. But yeah, Olbermann and Maddow are slightly to the left, with Olbermann, in my opinion, not actually being a sincere anything.

There is no balance to be found between the 'right' and the 'left' these days. None at all. There is no moderate right left that is in the least bit visible.

Again, who should they get other than Buchanan?

77 sagehen  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:36:32pm

re: #11 Thanos

There are lots of conservatives who could be the MSNBC token without being a major attractant for the the neo-nazi/neo-confederate/nieuw recht crowd. I think MSNBC knows that they are a captive niche audience with not many other places to go as long as they keep Pat on. So they put Pat out there to not only gain that audience, but also to show "how bad the right is" to the average Moderate or leftist viewer. It's intellectually lazy -- if they want honest debate from conservatives, they need to find better representatives from the right and hold a real discussion / debate.

Why would they need a "token" conservative, when they have one in their top tier of on-air talent, doing a three-hour morning show every day?

78 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:36:34pm

re: #32 Sergey Romanov

You are painting with too broad a brush. While the GOP candidates are clowns, and while some are pandering to that same crowd, the levels, extent, depth, and persistence of their bigotry in no way matches that of Pat.
There's lots of bigotry to criticize on the right, but it just doesn't rise to that level, pander as the candidates might. Sure you can slam Perry, Santorum, Cain Bachmann, etc. but you can't say they are all far outside the mainstream in their views on Gay Marriage. Santorum and some others are very obviously haters, and they are approaching Pat. To broadly paint them all as Pat Buchanan level bigots is cheap debate tactic, and too easy - which is exactly what I said MSNBC is doing by having him on. It makes their refutations of the right cheap, easy, facile and ... ultimately thin if they don't go into the real details.

79 RanchTooth  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:36:38pm

RuPaul in New Hampshire: ‘This country was founded by a bunch of men wearing wigs’

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- "I am not Ron Paul!" shouted RuPaul, the famous drag queen (wearing men's street clothes), at the top of his lungs inside a cramped diner here, a picturesque little restaurant that presidential candidates have visited for years. "And I am not running for president of the United States!," he added.

Sleepy locals sipping their coffee looked up from their cups. What the hell?

And what was RuPaul doing in chilly New Hampshire just days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary? The back story: When Ron Paul first ran for president as a Republican in 2008, a picture posted online of a Ron Paul campaign sign altered to say "RuPaul for President 2008" spawned a viral joke that the septuagenarian statesman from Texas was actually RuPaul, the black drag queen. Now that Ron Paul is ranking at the top of the polls, after placing third in the Iowa caucuses, RuPaul is here to capitalize. Leaving Los Angeles behind for a few days, he's traveling the state "campaign-style" with television cameras in tow to prove once and for all that he is definitely not Ron Paul. The tour will feature in his reality TV show, "RuPaul's Drag Race," which airs on Logo.

80 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:36:38pm

re: #70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They are definitely not far left, by any stretch.

I no longer watch Fox, and MSNBC is not my cup of tea. I find CNN to be the most objective and trustworthy of the three. And their increased ratings are an indication that the viewers have noticed.

81 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:36:48pm

re: #72 sattv4u2

Yes ,, thats exactly what I said!

{sigh}

Well I'm glad you interpreted my previous expression of disinterest for American sports as a suggestion that everyone employed in said world quit their jobs and become walmart greeters.

82 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:38:07pm

re: #53 Obdicut

So did you catch the game last night?

Lions lost. I haz a sad.

83 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:38:11pm

re: #78 Thanos

They're not so far outside the mainstream, but that's partially because the mainstream is depressingly bigoted towards gay people.

And Cain and Bachmann have both espoused points of view just as hateful and terrible as Buchanan's, just not his particular terrible of flavor.

84 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:39:35pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Because the sword would melt on reentry. Instead, use a tungsten rod about the size of a crowbar, fitting with a guidance module and fins. Voila, you've just created a device that hits with all the power of a small tactical nuke, with none of the fallout or radiation, that can hit any spot on the face of the globe.

Why would you do all that when you can simply combine a chainsaw and a sword?

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:40:13pm

re: #58 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, all those people that derive their income from it (excluding the obvious,, athletes)

Camermen,,, directors,, sound techs,, video engineers,,, production truck operators,, support staffs,, graphic designers ,,,

Maybe they should all get a job at Wal Mart instead!

I'm happy all these people are employed, but I still don't want to look at their product. Luckily, there seem to be plenty of people who do.

(I'm typing this while listening to music on my earphones to block out the game my husband is happily watching.

86 Digital Display  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:40:44pm

re: #82 Alouette

Lions lost. I haz a sad.

They are a team on the rise..They are scary good..Watch out for the Lions next year...

87 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:41:32pm

re: #83 Obdicut

They're not so far outside the mainstream, but that's partially because the mainstream is depressingly bigoted towards gay people.

And Cain and Bachmann have both espoused points of view just as hateful and terrible as Buchanan's, just not his particular terrible of flavor.

I quite agree that it's terrible that the mainstream only recently flipped to a bare majority favoring gay marriage, but... can you see the difference between being on the wrong side of something that's still being debated/decided all across the country, and being against civil rights decisions that are long decided by the courts, by americans, and by all branches of our government? One is certainly more extreme than the other n'est ce pas?

88 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:42:07pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Why would you do all that when you can simply combine a chainsaw and a sword?

*snort* What next, a chainsaw bayonet? I know, a rocket-propelled chainsaw!

//

89 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:42:12pm

re: #80 _RememberTonyC

I no longer watch Fox, and MSNBC is not my cup of tea. I find CNN to be the most objective and trustworthy of the three. And their increased ratings are an indication that the viewers have noticed.

CNN is terrible. It's a squishy station that tries to play the middle and their coverage of everything is awful as a result.

I gave up on the cable networks a while ago. These days, I podcast the news from the BBC and NPR.

90 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:43:21pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*snort* What next, a chainsaw bayonet? I know, a rocket-propelled chainsaw!

//

Now you're just getting silly.
/

91 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:43:28pm

re: #75 Obdicut

Yep.

Yes. Left of center.

I did forget about Ed Shultz, who's not so much far-left as he is an asshole. But yeah, Olbermann and Maddow are slightly to the left, with Olbermann, in my opinion, not actually being a sincere anything.

There is no balance to be found between the 'right' and the 'left' these days. None at all. There is no moderate right left that is in the least bit visible.

Again, who should they get other than Buchanan?

I feel like that is a trick question, because some of the people i consider moderate right voices out there will be considered far right in your opinion. My favorite moderate right voice is John Batchelor,who does a nightly radio show on WABC radio in NYC. You should check out one of his podcasts ... They are very educational and do NOT feature the type of partisan voices you might expect. Sure, he will have an occasional appearance from John Bolton, but you will never hear Buchanan on his show.

92 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:44:01pm

re: #78 Thanos

You are painting with too broad a brush.

e_e

93 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:44:10pm

re: #47 Alexzander

It can be so awkward living in America and not caring at all for football/basketball.

i'm not a sports fan

this is only a problem when i occasionally find myself in environments where male persons apparently are required to watch ball games as their primary form of recreation

94 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:44:31pm

re: #89 Lidane

CNN is terrible. It's a squishy station that tries to play the middle and their coverage of everything is awful as a result.

I gave up on the cable networks a while ago. These days, I podcast the news from the BBC and NPR.

The BBC covering US electoral politics is fascinating...when you pare back the presentation to someone just reading without commentary, the wingnuts sound even crazier.

95 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:44:35pm

Newt Gingrich takes revenge on Mitt Romney in bitter Republican debate

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, out for revenge after being on the receiving end of a $4m (£2.6m) advertising battering from Romney in Iowa, did not hold back, accusing him of lying, being unelectable and, in a phrase likely to be remembered long after the campaign is over, of talking "pious baloney".

Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts and failed Republican candidate in 2008, has slipped 8% over the past week in New Hampshire, although that still leaves him on a healthy 35%, according to a poll by Boston-based Suffolk University published on Sunday.

Romney would normally be regarded as a rightwinger but he has managed to emerge as a relative moderate given the makeup of the field – a mixture of the deeply conservative and the downright zany.

96 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:44:39pm

re: #87 Thanos

I'm not talking about their positions on gay marriage, but what they've said about gay people-- and other groups-- in general.

One is certainly more extreme than the other n'est ce pas?

Sure. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about shit like this, when talking about gay marriage:

“This is a very serious matter, because it is our children who are the prize for this community, they are specifically targeting our children.”

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:45:05pm

re: #88 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Of course, before it can be fired, the fifteen minutes of cursing while trying to start the chainsaw alert the enemy to your presence.

98 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:45:17pm

re: #89 Lidane

CNN is terrible. It's a squishy station that tries to play the middle and their coverage of everything is awful as a result.

I gave up on the cable networks a while ago. These days, I podcast the news from the BBC and NPR.

The other day I put on CNN (from a dubious streaming website) as I was doing the dishes. After about 10 minutes I though to myself: "Wow this is a real and extended interview with a legitimate professor on the US's foreign policy with respect to China in the aftermath of Kim Jong Il's death!"

Then I realized I'd clicked on CNN-INTERNATIONAL....
So out of curiosity I switched to the CNN-USA and it was back to the same old herp and derp.
The standards for discourse in the US are embarrassing.

99 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:46:29pm

re: #89 Lidane

CNN is terrible. It's a squishy station that tries to play the middle and their coverage of everything is awful as a result.

I gave up on the cable networks a while ago. These days, I podcast the news from the BBC and NPR.

Playing to the middle and striving for objectivity is EXACTLY what a news organization should do.

100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:46:54pm

re: #98 Alexzander

Back on CNN? Clem Kardashian's clevage.

101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:47:18pm

re: #87 Thanos

I quite agree that it's terrible that the mainstream only recently flipped to a bare majority favoring gay marriage, but... can you see the difference between being on the wrong side of something that's still being debated/decided all across the country, and being against civil rights decisions that are long decided by the courts, by americans, and by all branches of our government? One is certainly more extreme than the other n'est ce pas?

Looks like you're the one who can't.

When you have candidates that argue against the CRA 64, or child labor laws (also long-decided, far earlier than the "civil rights" decisions everyone thinks they know), or stating outright, "I will not hire a ____ for a cabinet position" or against equal rights for any group/special rights for their own group then yeah Unka Pat articulates the same basic views.

He's also a Republican who has been doing this for what, two generations, now?

102 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:47:21pm

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Newt Gingrich takes revenge on Mitt Romney in bitter Republican debate

The last, feeble attacks of a campaign living on borrowed time. Newt can't take that he's fallen from grace as the "Not-Romney."

103 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:47:29pm

re: #99 _RememberTonyC

Playing to the middle and striving for objectivity is EXACTLY what a news organization should do.

There is a difference been striving for objectivity and pandering to try and keep everyone happy.

104 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:47:38pm

re: #91 _RememberTonyC

I feel like that is a trick question, because some of the people i consider moderate right voices out there will be considered far right in your opinion. My favorite moderate right voice is John Batchelor,who does a nightly radio show on WABC radio in NYC..

Exactly. Some guy I never heard of. Can you name anyone that the public in general would know?

105 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:48:38pm

re: #98 Alexzander

The standards for discourse in the US are embarrassing.

Which is why I avoid all of the cable news networks. They're ALL terrible.

Give me the BBC and NPR any day. Hell, even Al-Jazeera English was fantastic during the demonstrations in Tahrir Square. I don't have much use for Fox, MSNBC, or CNN. When you look at the same story outside the US and compare it to their coverage here, American cable news is a joke.

106 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:48:53pm

re: #96 Obdicut

So Mitt & Huntsman = Pat Buchanan in your books, I still don't see it and you aren't going to convince more centrist / moderate / and right moderate people to vote D that way. You know what the worst thing that could happen to President Obama's re-election chances? If Mitt gets picked and selects Huntsman as his veep. Then what worth are your points? I think you need to defeat the ideas, not just say "oh they are all bigots" and just leave it. Just saying.

107 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:48:57pm

re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is a difference been striving for objectivity and pandering to try and keep everyone happy.

See also: Politifact and their recent "Lie of the Year" debacle.

108 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:49:21pm

re: #99 _RememberTonyC

Playing to the middle and striving for objectivity is EXACTLY what a news organization should do.

Depends where and when. If the two 'sides' (which there never really are) are wildly unbalanced, playing to the middle is fucking stupid.

Playing to the middle between creationists and people who understand evolution happens is awful.

Playing to the middle between segregationists and those who think the races are equal is terrible.

And objectivity is almost always false; it's far better to acknowledge your own subjectivity and try to work honestly within it, rather than fool yourself into thinking you've somehow become an objective voice about anything you care about.

109 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:49:27pm

re: #99 _RememberTonyC

Playing to the middle and striving for objectivity is EXACTLY what a news organization should do.

but in fact everybody chooses the stations that fit their own prejudices, which naturally they think are the objective truth

there are people who think fox is way liberal and so they watch the 700 club and think that that's the objective truth, and i know people who think msnbc is too conservative

110 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:49:41pm

re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is a difference been striving for objectivity and pandering to try and keep everyone happy.

Exactly. CNN doesn't strive for objectivity. They shamelessly pander to everyone equally to keep their access. Their coverage sucks.

111 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:49:45pm

re: #104 Obdicut

Exactly. Some guy I never heard of. Can you name anyone that the public in general would know?

The Stonegate Institute (formerly Hudson Institute) web site has some solid moderate right voices. Some you will have heard of and others maybe not.

112 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:50:17pm

re: #106 Thanos

So Mitt & Huntsman = Pat Buchanan in your books, I still don't see it and you aren't going to convince more centrist / moderate / and right moderate people to vote D that way. You know what the worst thing that could happen to President Obama's re-election chances? If Mitt gets picked and selects Huntsman as his veep. Then what worth are your points? I think you need to defeat the ideas, not just say "oh they are all bigots" and just leave it. Just saying.

A Romney/Huntsman ticket would cause the party base to shit a collective brick. It won't happen, no matter how much of a nice dream it may be, it's still a dream.

113 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:51:52pm

re: #112 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A Romney/Huntsman ticket would cause the party base to shit a collective brick. It won't happen, no matter how much of a nice dream it may be, it's still a dream.

Romney wouldn't choose Huntsman as his veep. Two Mormons at the top of the GOP ticket? The Republicans might as well give up on the South at that point.

Nope. Mitt will pull a McCain and bring a crazy Tea Party lunatic on board as his VP to appease the wingnuts.

114 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:51:54pm

re: #106 Thanos

So Mitt & Huntsman = Pat Buchanan in your books

Nope. Not Mitt and Huntsman. Mitt is a pandering panderer, who holds whatever view he needs to. What he's currently saying is about as bad as Buchanan's shit, but he's said, and done, better in the past.

And Huntsman is far, far better than anyone else in the GOP field.

But you specifically referenced Bachmann and Cain.

, I still don't see it and you aren't going to convince more centrist / moderate / and right moderate people to vote D that way.

Not my goal.

You know what the worst thing that could happen to President Obama's re-election chances? If Mitt gets picked and selects Huntsman as his veep.

I disagree, just because I think it'd turn off the GOP base so entirely.

Then what worth are your points? I think you need to defeat the ideas, not just say "oh they are all bigots" and just leave it. Just saying.

No clue what you're talking about at this point. Seems kind of like a false dichotomy. I do argue with their 'ideas' on a regular basis. Doesn't mean I can't also say they're bigoted, right?

So what's the actual criticism of what I'm saying?

115 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:51:59pm

re: #111 _RememberTonyC

The Stonegate Institute (formerly Hudson Institute) web site has some solid moderate right voices. Some you will have heard of and others maybe not.

The problem being, without constant mentioning of Jesus or veiled racism, how would the vast majority of Fox viewers be sure of their conservative credentials?

116 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:52:23pm

re: #108 Obdicut

Depends where and when. If the two 'sides' (which there never really are) are wildly unbalanced, playing to the middle is fucking stupid.

Playing to the middle between creationists and people who understand evolution happens is awful.

Playing to the middle between segregationists and those who think the races are equal is terrible.

And objectivity is almost always false; it's far better to acknowledge your own subjectivity and try to work honestly within it, rather than fool yourself into thinking you've somehow become an objective voice about anything you care about.

Pure Objectivity is impossible, but striving for fairness is what a news organization should do. Go where the facts take you. Don't decide on the narrative first and make the facts fit your argument.

117 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:52:57pm

re: #113 Lidane

Romney wouldn't choose Huntsman as his veep. Two Mormons at the top of the GOP ticket? The Republicans might as well give up on the South at that point.

Nope. Mitt will pull a McCain and bring a crazy Tea Party lunatic on board as his VP to appease the wingnuts.

I think it will be another McCain, as it won't be his choice so much as the party saying at the convention "You will pick somebody who appeals to the Tea Party."

118 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:53:13pm

re: #111 _RememberTonyC

The Stonegate Institute (formerly Hudson Institute) web site has some solid moderate right voices. Some you will have heard of and others maybe not.

Can you name one that has a national profile?

119 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:53:49pm

re: #116 _RememberTonyC

Pure Objectivity is impossible, but striving for fairness is what a news organization should do. Go where the facts take you. Don't decide on the narrative first and make the facts fit your argument.

Sure. I agree with that. For example, don't decide that you need to be in 'the middle' and attempt to balance 'two sides'.

120 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:53:52pm

re: #114 Obdicut

I referenced Bachmann and Cain as examples of the bad crowd, those who approach Buchanan in bigotry, I was sorta, you know... agreeing with you on those ?

121 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:54:00pm

Huntsman gives Romney nothing. That would be one of the stupidest tickets he could ever do and his advisors/pollsters would never allow it. Getting one Mormon elected will be miracle enough.

122 sagehen  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:54:28pm

re: #52 Obdicut

That's hardly my point. Buchanan's views are not out of the mainstream in the GOP today, or what passes for the 'conservative' viewpoint. And MSNBC has nobody on it who has a far-left viewpoint, nor ever did.

Who should they get other than Buchanan who would present the modern 'conservative' viewpoint in a less bigoted fashion?

Ever? Jerry Springer was pretty far left, Olbermann (remember how vituperative he was towards Hillary Clinton in the primaries?), Lawrence O'Donnell openly calls himself a Socialist, Maddow is certainly no moderate, Ed Schulz can out-shout anyone and OMG Reverend Al!!!.

They fired the mean ones, but they're in no way lacking for lefties.

123 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:55:23pm

re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The problem being, without constant mentioning of Jesus or veiled racism, how would the vast majority of Fox viewers be sure of their conservative credentials?

Dunno .... And that is not my problem. I used to defend Fox, but Obama's election was an event that pushed Fox into an editorial place that I could not travel to.

124 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:55:36pm

re: #112 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A Romney/Huntsman ticket would cause the party base to shit a collective brick. It won't happen, no matter how much of a nice dream it may be, it's still a dream.

i think it's pretty clear that the ticket will be romney/somebody distinctly to the right of romney who at the same time is inoffensive and doesn't overshadow him

mccain made a basic political mistake by choosing a vp who was a much bigger show than he was. the ticket was effectively palin/mccain

romney won't do that

125 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:55:42pm

re: #116 _RememberTonyC

Pure Objectivity is impossible, but striving for fairness is what a news organization should do. Go where the facts take you. Don't decide on the narrative first and make the facts fit your argument.

How can you be fair and objective?

126 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:55:46pm

The people who brought up morning Joe are right, I always forget about him because I work during the day when he's on, like a lot of people.

127 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:56:09pm

re: #122 sagehen

None of those are far-left. There is no far-left active in US politics. If you mean by US standards, then sure, Lawrence O'Donnell is far-left, which is a sad commentary on the state of US politics and the failure of a left/right scale to accurately measure jack or shit.

128 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:57:09pm

re: #118 Obdicut

Can you name one that has a national profile?

No ... But that does not mean their voices are not legitimate ... Sometimes if you want to find something, it requires a bit of exploring, which I am willing to do.

129 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:57:13pm

I took a philosophy graduate seminar on the concept of objectivity a couple years ago.

130 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:57:40pm

re: #116 _RememberTonyC

Pure Objectivity is impossible, but striving for fairness is what a news organization should do. Go where the facts take you. Don't decide on the narrative first and make the facts fit your argument.

but everybody has a different idea of what is fair and what the facts are

face it, you only think people are being objective when their prejudices are the same as your prejudices

131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:57:50pm

re: #123 _RememberTonyC

I doubt that I've watched two hours of Fox cumulatively since President Obama was elected.

132 sagehen  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:58:14pm

re: #82 Alouette

Lions lost. I haz a sad.

Cubbies fans pat you on the back, murmur "there there dear, there's always next year" and fix you a nice cup of cocoa.

133 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:58:27pm

re: #129 Alexzander

I took a philosophy graduate seminar on the concept of objectivity a couple years ago.

everything they said was completely subjective

// :-)

134 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:59:03pm

re: #119 Obdicut

Sure. I agree with that. For example, don't decide that you need to be in 'the middle' and attempt to balance 'two sides'.

If you are suggesting that is what I am doing, I think you are outsmarting yourself or perhaps over thinking this ...

135 sagehen  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:59:23pm

re: #80 _RememberTonyC

I no longer watch Fox, and MSNBC is not my cup of tea. I find CNN to be the most objective and trustworthy of the three. And their increased ratings are an indication that the viewers have noticed.

The station that employs Erik Son of Erik? Really?

136 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:59:31pm

re: #128 _RememberTonyC

No ... But that does not mean their voices are not legitimate ... Sometimes if you want to find something, it requires a bit of exploring, which I am willing to do.

Their voices are completely legitimate. I have no idea why you think I'm saying otherwise. What I'm saying is they are not a replacement for Buchanan on MSNBC because they do not have name recognition and, precisely because they are moderate, they are far out of step with the modern GOP, which is highly radicalized.

It'd be more of a lie to put up a moderate conservative and pretend they spoke for 'conservatives' in the US these days. They are a small minority, both in the GOP and among recognizable 'conservatives'.

137 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 12:59:33pm

re: #131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I doubt that I've watched two hours of Fox cumulatively since President Obama was elected.

Same here. The last time I watched Faux News was at Christmas when my aunt and uncle had it on at their house. I took control of the remote and found a football game instead.

138 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:00:41pm

re: #125 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How can you be fair and objective?

Striving for objectivity means being fair in my book ...

139 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:01:45pm

re: #134 _RememberTonyC

If you are suggesting that is what I am doing, I think you are outsmarting yourself or perhaps over thinking this ...

No, I'm trying to point out a problem in the idea of 'balance'. The idea that there is 'balance' to be found on most subjects is itself an un-objective narrative being forced onto it, and it's part of why news reporting fucking sucks these days. Many issues have no 'balance', they just have the truth and the fiction, or the reality and the fantasy.

140 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:01:59pm

re: #127 Obdicut

McKinney, Kucinich, A.N.S.W.E.R., UFPJ, ISM, Medea &co., CPUSA, Green Party, Black Panther Party, ISM, PLP, SDS, NLN, and others were all still "active" last time I checked? That they aren't very successful is neither here nor there when it comes to refuting that sweeping statement.

141 Alexzander  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:02:10pm

re: #135 sagehen

The station that employs Erik Son of Erik? Really?

Also known as Meta-Erik.

142 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:02:19pm

re: #130 engineer dog

but everybody has a different idea of what is fair and what the facts are

face it, you only think people are being objective when their prejudices are the same as your prejudices

I disagree

143 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:02:29pm

re: #138 _RememberTonyC

Striving for objectivity means being fair in my book ...

Then you could have stopped at "objective" and made your point. Calling on a reporter to be objective and fair doesn't work. If one side of a story is batshit insane, then the reporter should be objective by reporting that as is, not "fair" by finding a reason to portray the opposing side as equally unhinged.

144 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:02:52pm

re: #138 _RememberTonyC

Striving for objectivity means being fair in my book ...

there is no "objectivity"

145 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:02:59pm

re: #135 sagehen

The station that employs Erik Son of Erik? Really?

Yeah, really.

146 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:03:48pm

re: #142 _RememberTonyC

I disagree

then you walk around blissfully unconscious of your prejudices

147 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:03:52pm

7re: #140 Thanos

McKinney, Kucinich, A.N.S.W.E.R., UFPJ, ISM, Medea &co., CPUSA, Green Party, Black Panther Party, ISM, PLP, SDS, NLN, and others were all still "active" last time I checked? That they aren't very successful is neither here nor there when it comes to refuting that sweeping statement.

Sure. I'll amend what I said to say that there is no force or power to the far-left in US politics, that they barely have any influence. Whereas, on the other 'side', you have the GOP, which controls one of the houses of Congress and may take back the other.

There is no balance or comparison to be found.

148 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:05:27pm

re: #144 engineer dog

there is no "objectivity"

it's only fair to point out that the above statement is the first thing covered in journalism courses on day one

149 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:05:36pm

re: #144 engineer dog

there is no "objectivity"

I already said there is no pure objectivity, but striving for objectivity is what journalists should do.

150 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:07:45pm

re: #146 engineer dog

then you walk around blissfully unconscious of your prejudices

Bullshit ... You said I only considered someone to be objective if they agreed with my prejudices. You could not be more wrong.

151 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:08:07pm

re: #149 _RememberTonyC

I already said there is no pure objectivity, but striving for objectivity is what journalists should do.

then be aware that you are judging their "objectivity" by matching them to your prejudices

or, as they have long put it in washington DC, "where you stand depends on where you sit"

we should all be aware of how all of our opinions are highly subjective and have a great deal to do with who we are and what our situation in life is

152 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:08:22pm

re: #149 _RememberTonyC

So if a journalist were doing a story about teaching creationism in school, would it be objective to note that doing so violates the first amendment, that evolution is a proven scientific fact, and that those who want to teach creationism in schools are attempting to use the US government to proselytize?

Or should they 'objectively' say "Some people want this, some people don't"?

153 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:09:43pm

re: #150 _RememberTonyC

Bullshit ... You said I only considered someone to be objective if they agreed with my prejudices. You could not be more wrong.

no, you're wrong

:-)

154 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:11:44pm

re: #152 Obdicut

So if a journalist were doing a story about teaching creationism in school, would it be objective to note that doing so violates the first amendment, that evolution is a proven scientific fact, and that those who want to teach creationism in schools are attempting to use the US government to proselytize?

YES

Or should they 'objectively' say "Some people want this, some people don't"?

Some people DO want it taught in schools (I do not), so saying that is also true. Two different points.

155 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:12:18pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Because the sword would melt on reentry. Instead, use a tungsten rod about the size of a crowbar, fitting with a guidance module and fins. Voila, you've just created a device that hits with all the power of a small tactical nuke, with none of the fallout or radiation, that can hit any spot on the face of the globe.

"Rods from God", which is something that the US military has looked at in the past.

156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:12:24pm

re: #106 Thanos

You know what the worst thing that could happen to President Obama's re-election chances? If Mitt gets picked and selects Huntsman as his veep. Then what worth are your points?

There are a lot of things that will affect O's re-election chances. But a Romney-Huntsman ticket would be less on a right-far right continuum than a Romney-Roemer or -Snowe ticket.

What do you think the chances of those are, given the current climate of the GOP which is still pandering to its intractable bigots with EVERY other name on the roster right now.

157 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:12:31pm

re: #153 engineer dog

no, you're wrong

:-)

Sometimes I am ... Just ask my wife :)

158 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:12:33pm

re: #154 _RememberTonyC

Some people DO want it taught in schools (I do not), so saying that is also true. Two different points.

Right. But in reporting on it, should the reporter mention that it violates the first amendment to do so? And that evolution is a scientific fact?

159 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:13:11pm

re: #158 Obdicut

Right. But in reporting on it, should the reporter mention that it violates the first amendment to do so? And that evolution is a scientific fact?

I answered yes to that question ...

160 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:14:59pm

re: #140 Thanos

McKinney, Kucinich, A.N.S.W.E.R., UFPJ, ISM, Medea &co., CPUSA, Green Party, Black Panther Party, ISM, PLP, SDS, NLN, and others were all still "active" last time I checked? That they aren't very successful is neither here nor there when it comes to refuting that sweeping statement.

None of those people will ever have a voice on MSNBC. BTW, "Black Panther Party" is no longer all that active. You are probably thinking of those 7 assholes from the New Black Panther Party that was all the rage to fret about a couple years ago. Totally different, unrelated organization.

161 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:15:10pm

re: #159 _RememberTonyC

I answered yes to that question ...

Ah, you buried it in my quote, I missed it, I apologize.

In that case, I completely agree with you, but you're using 'objective' in a way that few people do. Most people, unfortunately, when talking about being objective, seem to pretend it means that there are no things as facts.

162 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:15:39pm

re: #79 RanchTooth

RuPaul in New Hampshire: ‘This country was founded by a bunch of men wearing wigs’

That's funny...couldn't be any worse than the actual candidates gladhanding for votes.

163 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:15:55pm

Gonna watch Tim Tebow get his righteous ass kicked by the Godless heathens from Pittsburgh. Later peeps!

164 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:22:56pm

This thread is dead! Long live the thread!

165 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:23:50pm

re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There are a lot of things that will affect O's re-election chances. But a Romney-Huntsman ticket would be less on a right-far right continuum than a Romney-Roemer or -Snowe ticket.

What do you think the chances of those are, given the current climate of the GOP which is still pandering to its intractable bigots with EVERY other name on the roster right now.

Realpolitik and demographics are such right now that I think if the GOP wants a chance they better not run as Tea Party but rather as centrists. As the AP pointed out yesterday it's not the rate of unemployment that matters, it's whether the trend is improving or worsening. With the economy still improving into next year I see Obama as somewhat of a slam dunk win if the GOP doesn't change a lot and quickly.

166 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:24:20pm

re: #163 _RememberTonyC

Gonna watch Tim Tebow get his righteous ass kicked by the Godless heathens from Pittsburgh. Later peeps!

That's the guy who's the first Christian ever to play football, right?

167 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:25:31pm

re: #163 _RememberTonyC

Gonna watch Tim Tebow get his righteous ass kicked by the Godless heathens from Pittsburgh. Later peeps!

The defense gonna whup up on him. I think Ben's playing at about 50%. (Which does make it safer for women around the stadium)

168 funky chicken  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:26:41pm

Hey, after the election they can hire Rick Santorum as his replacement. All the craziness, fewer ties to white supremacists. Rick's gotta maintain that lifestyle somehow.

169 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:26:51pm

re: #166 Obdicut

That's the guy who's the first Christian ever to play football, right?

Heh.

It still won't help him against the Steelers.

170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:27:06pm

re: #166 Obdicut

That's the guy who's the first Christian ever to play football, right?

I keep waiting for a player to say, "Everything was going great, right up until Jesus made me fumble. He hates me."

171 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:27:27pm

re: #165 Thanos

Realpolitik and demographics are such right now that I think if the GOP wants a chance they better not run as Tea Party but rather as centrists. As the AP pointed out yesterday it's not the rate of unemployment that matters, it's whether the trend is improving or worsening. With the economy still improving into next year I see Obama as somewhat of a slam dunk win if the GOP doesn't change a lot and quickly.

I agree with some that point out that, with little over 10 months to go, there's still the chance for further economic troubles, particularly in the European and Asian markets, not to mention the housing market. But if things continue on their steady climb, while Republicans block every effort made to speed up the recovery, then Obama will be able to tick "economy" off on his reelection checklist.

172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:29:06pm

re: #165 Thanos

Realpolitik and demographics are such right now that I think if the GOP wants a chance they better not run as Tea Party but rather as centrists. As the AP pointed out yesterday it's not the rate of unemployment that matters, it's whether the trend is improving or worsening. With the economy still improving into next year I see Obama as somewhat of a slam dunk win if the GOP doesn't change a lot and quickly.

Agreed. But I don't think they will -- it's too easy to just fall back on conservative bigotry, as they are doing right now. Imo, the Bush/Rove/Krauthammer camp now gunning for Romney found this out the hard way in 2008. I also think the party running against the incumbent is going to have to appeal to the center in most any GE.

I don't see the GOP doing that any time soon, though. They have really mopped themselves into a corner by appealing instead to some of the dumbest bigots in the US.

173 funky chicken  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:29:12pm

re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My money's on Romney/Rubio. No way Romney can have a centrist veep candidate. The base won't trust him to not revert to Romney 1.0, which was pre-2004. How anybody feels they can believe a word that comes out of the guy's mouth, well...

174 Lidane  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:29:28pm

YES! I'm a happy camper: The Mars Volta to release new album this year

I have a ridiculous love for those guys. There's just something about their music that gets me.

175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:30:37pm

re: #174 Lidane

YES! I'm a happy camper: The Mars Volta to release new album this year

I have a ridiculous love for those guys. There's just something about their music that gets me.

Oh, I love them. My friends call them pretentious and whatnot, but I'm a big prog fan - they are right in the pocket.

176 funky chicken  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:31:34pm

re: #100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Back on CNN? Clem Kardashian's clevage.

Gross. I really wish that whole family would go away.

177 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:34:37pm

re: #172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I think you are correct, one of these days it might be time to consider re-registering (R), but I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:36:35pm

re: #173 funky chicken

My money's on Romney/Rubio. No way Romney can have a centrist veep candidate. The base won't trust him to not revert to Romney 1.0, which was pre-2004. How anybody feels they can believe a word that comes out of the guy's mouth, well...

Rubio will have to really eat his words if they get him and he says yes. But yeah, Romney/Rubio or something like that.

And in the rare chance that it's Huntsman then, definitely we will see a bag VP nominee from them.

179 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:41:48pm

All Of Area Man's Hard Work Finally Pays Off For Employer

Following seven straight years of long hours at the office and sacrificed weekends and holidays, all of account manager Sam Hemstead's hard work and single-minded devotion to Pinnacle Automotive Insurance has finally paid off for CEO Charles Pardahee, Pardahee said Friday.

"There were definitely some nights I'd lie awake in bed and wonder, 'Is Sam absolutely killing himself day in and day out for nothing?'" Pardahee told reporters while driving to his weekend home in a recently purchased 2012 BMW luxury sedan. "But Sam just put his head down and never looked back, and this year his blood, sweat, and tears have proven profitable to the tune of a 15 percent larger bonus for myself."

"It just goes to show that if you're really passionate and dedicated, eventually it all comes back around to your superiors," Pardahee continued.

The stress-related physical and psychological tolls for Hemstead, 34, have been high, but the hypertension, weight-gain, and crippling migraine headaches he has suffered due to his rigorous work schedule have been worth the rewards he has reaped for his employer, Pardahee confirmed.

"I'm sure there were times when Sam wondered if it was all really worth it, especially considering he had to pay for a lot of his medication and doctor's visits out of his own pocket," said Pardahee, who in 2009 forced all his account managers to become contract employees so he would no longer have to provide them with health care benefits. "But he never complained once, and now that Sam has helped Pinnacle earn record profits by not taking a single day off for more than five years, I can finally relax and take another long vacation to Turks and Caicos. After all, Sam earned it for me."

The CEO added that nothing is more satisfying than a job well done by someone else.

While Hemstead's total devotion to the company has come at a steep personal cost, these too are reportedly acceptable considering the immense financial gains and professional accolades he has garnered for Pardahee.

"When Sam's wife filed for divorce and eventually won custody of his two daughters, he completely threw himself into his job in an attempt to cope as his life fell apart all around him," Pardahee said. "That was great, because it allowed me to drastically scale back my workload and spend even more time with my wife and children."

"Seeing most of his paycheck go to child support has made me really value all the things I can do with my kids because of Sam's hard work," Pardahee continued. "Considering all he continues to do for this company without even thinking about taking a break, he's afforded me all the time in the world to just enjoy life and not be defined by my job."

According to the CEO, Hemstead's contributions to Pinnacle Insurance will pay even greater dividends when he is let go and replaced with a college graduate willing to work for half the salary, allowing Pardahee to give himself a substantial raise.

181 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:58:23pm

Mitt Romney: I’ve feared getting a ‘pink slip’

Mitt Romney sought to cast himself as an everyday guy — complete with skinny legs and a fear of getting “a pink slip” — in an effort to show a more human side and connect with Granite State voters two days before the high-stakes primary.

“I know what it’s like to wonder whether you’re going to get fired. A couple of times I wondered if I was going to get a pink slip,” said Romney to a crowd of roughly 700 voters at the Rochester Opera House.

Yeah, because then he might have had to sell one of his multimillion dollar homes and only have 2 left. The horror, the horror.

182 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 1:58:57pm

let's turn republican rhetoric around on them and see how they like it:

the republican candidates don't understand america

the republican candidates are fundamentally at odds with american values

if a republican is elected president this year, you won't have a job. it's that simple!

republicans are pushing economic policies that would spell disaster for the economy. they simply don't understand how the economy works.

republicans promote anti-family values

183 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:01:57pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mitt Romney: I’ve feared getting a ‘pink slip’

Yeah, because then he might have had to sell one of his multimillion dollar homes and only have 2 left. The horror, the horror.

Meanwhile, Santorum fears getting an actual pink slip.

184 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:02:55pm

Mitt Romney: I’ve feared getting a ‘pink slip’

have you guys ever read nickle and dimed?

let mitt take $50, change his name, go somewhere and get whatever job he can, and try to live on what he makes from it, for a whole year

then come back and tell us about how you understand regular working folk

185 Gus  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:04:25pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mitt Romney: I’ve feared getting a ‘pink slip’

Yeah, because then he might have had to sell one of his multimillion dollar homes and only have 2 left. The horror, the horror.

Mitt Romney: douche.

186 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:05:13pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mitt Romney: I’ve feared getting a ‘pink slip’

Yeah, because then he might have had to sell one of his multimillion dollar homes and only have 2 left. The horror, the horror.

The man claims he's "worked in the private sector," but he never mentions that his work in the private sector has been as a financial consultant since he graduated from college. The man hasn't worked a menial job in decades.

But come on, Mitt, tell us the joke again about how you're "unemployed" because you're no longer governor!

187 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:06:19pm

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mitt Romney: I’ve feared getting a ‘pink slip’

Yeah, because then he might have had to sell one of his multimillion dollar homes and only have 2 left. The horror, the horror.

Bad bad strategy Mitt.

188 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:07:09pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

Iran to establish permanent station in Antarctica

Image: Iran-to-establish-permanent-station-in-Antarctica.jpg

Dear DinnerJacket

Penguins are known to engage in homosexual encounters

Just sayin!

Regards ,,
Me!

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:10:19pm

re: #182 engineer dog

let's turn republican rhetoric around on them and see how they like it:

the republican candidates don't understand america

the republican candidates are fundamentally at odds with american values

if a republican is elected president this year, you won't have a job. it's that simple!

republicans are pushing economic policies that would spell disaster for the economy. they simply don't understand how the economy works.

republicans promote anti-family values

And at the rate they are going, all of those statements would be 100% true.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:13:01pm

re: #188 sattv4u2

Dear DinnerJacket

Penguins are known to engage in homosexual encounters

Just sayin!

Regards ,,
Me!

Don't tell him that. Penguins have enough problems already.

191 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:15:03pm

re: #189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And at the rate they are going, all of those statements would be 100% true.

strange how that works out, isn't it?

192 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:17:04pm

re: #175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, I love them. My friends call them pretentious and whatnot, but I'm a big prog fan - they are right in the pocket.

ಠ_ಠ

If Mars Volta is prog, then Rush is heavy metal (and also prog).

This is prog (or isn't, depending.)

Gentle Giant - Free Hand

King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King


// --> snobbier than thou

193 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:17:16pm

re: #187 Stanley Sea

Bad bad strategy Mitt.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Seriously, Romney is a living embodiment of the 1% in this country, a kid born to the purple and never going without anything his whole life. This attempt to portray himself as a "working class stiff" is fraking hilarious, I'd almost believe it an SNL routine if somebody were just describing it to me.

194 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:21:11pm

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Seriously, Romney is a living embodiment of the 1% in this country, a kid born to the purple and never going without anything his whole life. This attempt to portray himself as a "working class stiff" is fraking hilarious, I'd almost believe it an SNL routine if somebody were just describing it to me.

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Seriously, Romney is a living embodiment of the 1% in this country, a kid born to the purple and never going without anything his whole life. This attempt to portray himself as a "working class stiff" is fraking hilarious, I'd almost believe it an SNL routine if somebody were just describing it to me.

Ya, add in the money photo.

195 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:25:32pm

re: #192 negativ

ಠ_ಠ

If Mars Volta is prog, then Rush is heavy metal (and also prog).

This is prog (or isn't, depending.)

Gentle Giant - Free Hand

[Video]
// --> snobbier than thou

Rush is one of my favorite bands in the world. (Yes I consider them prog, along with Gentle Giant!) :D

196 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:26:59pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Meanwhile, Santorum fears getting an actual pink slip.

He already has one, what would he do with two of them?

197 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:27:20pm

re: #187 Stanley Sea

Bad bad strategy Mitt.

americans appreciate it if you are honest about who you are, and don't like people trying to lie and make themselves out to be something they aren't

mitt doesn't seem to understand that

198 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:28:00pm

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm sure Romney worked very hard at business/law school, and I'm sure he worked very hard as a consultant. I don't think, unlike, say, Newt, that he's a lazy man. But he really, really seems to think that his work leveraging buyouts of companies is somehow comparable to an average job. He doesn't get something very fundamental.

199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:28:17pm

Tim Tebow! Holy cow!

I mean, Sweet Jesus!

200 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:29:14pm

re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Seriously, Romney is a living embodiment of the 1% in this country, a kid born to the purple and never going without anything his whole life. This attempt to portray himself as a "working class stiff" is fraking hilarious, I'd almost believe it an SNL routine if somebody were just describing it to me.

Romney pretending to work at various jobs:

201 wee fury  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:30:09pm

Common is in 'Hell on Wheels'. His acting is good.

202 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:32:01pm

re: #198 Obdicut

I'm sure Romney worked very hard at business/law school, and I'm sure he worked very hard as a consultant. I don't think, unlike, say, Newt, that he's a lazy man. But he really, really seems to think that his work leveraging buyouts of companies is somehow comparable to an average job. He doesn't get something very fundamental.

He should talk with the dudes remodeling his La Jolla oceanfront home. Yeah, right.

203 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:32:41pm

re: #198 Obdicut

I'm sure Romney worked very hard at business/law school, and I'm sure he worked very hard as a consultant. I don't think, unlike, say, Newt, that he's a lazy man. But he really, really seems to think that his work leveraging buyouts of companies is somehow comparable to an average job. He doesn't get something very fundamental.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if he did anything more taxing on his body than wash the car or rake some leaves. To him, a long work week is spending long nights negotiating over the phone or making sure the paperwork's in order.

204 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:33:24pm

re: #201 wee fury

Common is in 'Hell on Wheels'. His acting is good.

That show is great.

205 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:34:48pm

Old earth creationism: It's the 200 million year old footprint of GOD! from South Africa...

206 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:36:06pm

re: #204 Stanley Sea

That show is great.

I would love to watch it but it's on past my bedtime. :(

207 wee fury  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:37:41pm

re: #204 Stanley Sea

That show is great.

I like it.

208 Kragar  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:40:39pm

After Santorum Left Senate, Familiar Hands Reached Out

In the years before he lost his Pennsylvania Senate seat in 2006, Rick Santorum worked hard to win hundreds of millions of dollars in additional Medicare money for hospitals in Puerto Rico.

He sponsored at least two Senate bills and pushed to amend a mammoth Medicare overhaul to include the extra spending, which would have benefited Universal Health Services, a Pennsylvania-based hospital management company with facilities in Puerto Rico. If it seems at odds with the small-government philosophy Mr. Santorum now espouses in his presidential campaign, it was in line with his legislative efforts to help businesses in his state.

And some of those businesses were happy to return the favor.

209 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:41:04pm

re: #199 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Tim Tebow! Holy cow!

I mean, Sweet Jesus!

And again! (although, not for 6 this time)

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:41:17pm

re: #206 Alouette

I would love to watch it but it's on past my bedtime. :(

Tell me about it. Tonight's one of the 'late nights'. Pitiful, but I hate waking up.

Oh, and Tim Tebow is doing great.

211 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:42:04pm

re: #208 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

After Santorum Left Senate, Familiar Hands Reached Out

It's a bit like Paul espousing "small government," but then admitting that he's voted for every pork project and give-away to his state, because it's "their money."

212 RadicalModerate  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:42:14pm

A new development on the story about the racist comments by the Kansas House speaker regarding Michelle Obama.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Another email has surfaced from him, this one explicitly quoting the Psalm 109:8 verse, which prays for the death of one's opponents.

[Link: www2.ljworld.com...]

Earlier this week, the Lawrence Journal-World was sent an email that O'Neal had forwarded to House Republicans that referred to President Obama and a Bible verse that says “Let his days be few and brief.”

The email, which has been posted in various places on the Internet, refers to a bumper sticker that reads “Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8.”

Psalm 109:8 says, “Let his days be few and brief; and let others step forward to replace him.”

The email states: “At last — I can honestly voice a Biblical prayer for our president! Look it up — it is word for word! Let us all bow our heads and pray. Brothers and Sisters, can I get an AMEN? AMEN!!!!!!”

213 allegro  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:42:54pm

I just had an interesting and gratifying moment. I was out doing the afternoon dog walk with my neighbor who I've talked about here before. She told me that she watched part of the debate this morning and the Newt had said something that made sense to her (uninformed politically as she is). He said that the EPA should be eliminated due to overstepping and used as an example Arizona dust storms. What she heard (what he SAID may have been different) was him saying that the EPA was blaming Arizona for the naturally occurring dust storms and saying that people needed to water the ground or some such nonsense.

I told her it was nonsense - it makes NO sense on the surface - but that I wasn't familiar with specifically what he was talking about. Got home and within about 5 seconds Googled it right up on the EPA site. Arizona was trying to claim that the state's air pollution wasn't pollution but dust. The EPA did test over a period of time to clearly demonstrate that the pollution is, in fact, real goddamn serious pollution and not flying sand.

I called my friend and filled her in on the facts. Heh, she won't be believing Newt anymore.

214 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:43:21pm

YEAH!

215 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:44:20pm

re: #214 Stanley Sea

YEAH!

(someone has a crush!!!)

((an ORANGE crush!!))

216 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:45:59pm

re: #213 allegro

It's part of the reason I had to stop watching the debates, my Bullshit-O-Meter kept burning out by the thirty-minute mark every time.

217 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:49:27pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

(someone has a crush!!!)

((an ORANGE crush!!))

Always have, always will.

And the team plays up to his level

218 allegro  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:50:14pm

re: #216 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's part of the reason I had to stop watching the debates, my Bullshit-O-Meter kept burning out by the thirty-minute mark every time.

The problem is that a lot of people, such as my friend, don't have that tuned meter. The really groovy thing is that she's now giving me the opportunity sometimes to debunk the bullshit before she starts believing it. I got to get in a whole bunch of good shots on our 20 minute walk to give her good stuff to think about.

219 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:51:23pm

re: #215 sattv4u2

#1 HS recruit in Florida

2 national championships

First soph heisman trophy

PLEASE NO JINX WHILE TYPING THIS

220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:53:57pm

re: #219 Stanley Sea

When they show his passes in slow motion, they are the wobbliest things I have ever seen from an NFL QB.

221 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:55:58pm

re: #218 allegro

The problem is that a lot of people, such as my friend, don't have that tuned meter. The really groovy thing is that she's now giving me the opportunity sometimes to debunk the bullshit before she starts believing it. I got to get in a whole bunch of good shots on our 20 minute walk to give her good stuff to think about.

It's the emotional response more than anything, the kind that goes off soundbites and news blips. Newt makes a big deal about the EPA going after Arizona over dust and the response is not "Is that true?" but rather "That's stupid! You can't blame people for dust!"

222 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:56:11pm

re: #218 allegro

The problem is that a lot of people, such as my friend, don't have that tuned meter. The really groovy thing is that she's now giving me the opportunity sometimes to debunk the bullshit before she starts believing it. I got to get in a whole bunch of good shots on our 20 minute walk to give her good stuff to think about.

Really, it's awesome to inform political BS to the not knowers. How did I get my Paulian workmate to think a little? Abolish the EPA blew her mind. That's where some of the youth may not see eye to eye with his craziness.

223 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 2:56:42pm

re: #61 Obdicut

Why do you land on a planet just to hit a guy with a sword?

Couldn't you just drop the sword on him from orbit?

Well, you can. But you'd miss the screams of agony and the blood spurting. Where's the fun in that?

224 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:01:04pm

re: #223 Romantic Heretic

Well, you can. But you'd miss the screams of agony and the blood spurting. Where's the fun in that?

This.

Also, good evening LGF.

225 allegro  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:01:38pm

re: #221 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's the emotional response more than anything, the kind that goes off soundbites and news blips. Newt makes a big deal about the EPA going after Arizona over dust and the response is not "Is that true?" but rather "That's stupid! You can't blame people for dust!"

Exactly! That was one the first things I said after she related the story that "made sense" to her and responded just that way. I said he's shoveling bullshit and hoping no one actually looks up the facts. I did and it took me all of 5 seconds.

226 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:03:40pm

re: #220 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When they show his passes in slow motion, they are the wobbliest things I have ever seen from an NFL QB.

Youngin

Fran Tarkenton threw some of THE ugliest pigskins even seen!

It was if he was trying to toss an actual live pig!

227 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:05:05pm

FREEPAZOID FREEPERS FREEPING FREEPLY!!

To: Restore America
Stupid is as Stupid does...

Why elect Romney when he will be just as useless and destructive as Obama?

For a moment, I'll pretend that Romney can actually win by drawing enough support from conservatives (independents and lefties matter not if the Republican base is not energized enough to get out and vote for him). Just as there was no enthusiasm for McCain, a Romney nomination will be even worse, IMO. Just to have an (R) beside his name? Insanity.

Will he nominate conservatives to the SC? I doubt it.

If Obama wrecks the country, ALL Americans will FINALLY see the source of the problem plain and clear. Having Romney in when the country collapses will guarantee that our Representative Republic will be finished, once and for all.

So many people complain about “kicking the can down the road”, and having Romney as the POTUS is doing EXACTLY that.

If Romney is the Republican nominee, the time will be now to start a conservative party to replace the GOP.

228 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:06:05pm

re: #225 allegro

Exactly! That was one the first things I said after she related the story that "made sense" to her and responded just that way. I said he's shoveling bullshit and hoping no one actually looks up the facts. I did and it took me all of 5 seconds.

The dust bits just the latest iteration of one they've been going with about the EPA for months, namely the whole "farm dust" bit. They seem to be getting a better response to that than the previous effort, which was to accuse the EPA of being "job killers" by trying to regulate CO2.

But while Newt's the most experienced shit-spinner, the rest have engaged in it as well on the campaign trail. Like Perry's little brain-fart the other day about how building the Keystone pipeline would mean less reliance on foreign oil. Or Santorum declaring that some unnamed study showed it's better to have a father in jail than two loving mothers at home.

229 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:08:43pm

what's for dinner? Newt Served With Rice

(via atrios)

Black Man Confronts Gingrich On Food Stamps Comments: ‘Stop Using Blacks As A Punching Bag’

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich defended himself today against charges of racial insensitivity by noting that he’s worked with African-American leaders in the past.

summa my besfrens...

"...I mean clearly somebody who’s served with Colin Powell, who has served with Condoleezza Rice, I have a fairly good sense of the fact that African Americans have many contributions to America....

so, uh - when did newt serve with condi?

230 makeitstop  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:10:26pm

re: #174 Lidane

YES! I'm a happy camper: The Mars Volta to release new album this year

I have a ridiculous love for those guys. There's just something about their music that gets me.

I'd love to see a new ATDI album. They exploded way too soon. 'Relationship of Command' is one of my favorite records.

231 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:14:28pm

re: #229 engineer dog

so, uh - when did newt serve with condi?

She had a number of positions (advisory mostly) from 1986 through 1991 (Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.,,,, she served in President George H.W. Bush's administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. )

In those rolls, it's not a stretch to think she would interact with the sitting Speaker of the House

232 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:18:52pm

the freepazoiders fave mitt cartoon

[Link: media.photobucket.com...]

233 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:23:23pm

re: #229 engineer dog

what's for dinner? Newt Served With Rice

(via atrios)

Black Man Confronts Gingrich On Food Stamps Comments: ‘Stop Using Blacks As A Punching Bag’

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich defended himself today against charges of racial insensitivity by noting that he’s worked with African-American leaders in the past.

summa my besfrens...

"...I mean clearly somebody who’s served with Colin Powell, who has served with Condoleezza Rice, I have a fairly good sense of the fact that African Americans have many contributions to America...

so, uh - when did newt serve with condi?

Bullshit. My black friends.

234 makeitstop  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:26:33pm

And in other Newt news...

Adelson Gives $5 Million to Super PAC Supporting Gingrich

A longtime supporter of Newt Gingrich has donated $5 million to a super PAC backing his presidential bid, providing a major boost to Mr. Gingrich’s ailing campaign in the critical lead-up to Tuesday’s presidential primary in New Hampshire.

Fucking Citizens United. Without it, Newt would be broke and would darken our door no more.

235 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 8, 2012 3:27:42pm

re: #222 Stanley Sea

Really, it's awesome to inform political BS to the not knowers. How did I get my Paulian workmate to think a little? Abolish the EPA blew her mind. That's where some of the youth may not see eye to eye with his craziness.

I have a somewhat different point of view. I spent all day yesterday in Waco, TX with what remains of my family. Among them are intelligent, thoughtful people who have advanced degrees from American universities of some renown but nevertheless recited nearly word-for-word demonstrably (and easily verifiable) untrue talking points about Barack Obama, evolution, and climate change. The absolute LAST thing I wanted to do with my visit was turn it into Crossfire: Home Edition, so I just sat in silence as the others tut-tutted and slowly shook their heads oh-dear-what-a-dreadful-shame.


edited to trim inexplicable derp

236 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jan 9, 2012 1:29:53am

re: #231 sattv4u2

so, uh - when did newt serve with condi?

She had a number of positions (advisory mostly) from 1986 through 1991 (Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.,,, she served in President George H.W. Bush's administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. )

In those rolls, it's not a stretch to think she would interact with the sitting Speaker of the House

That's like saying you know anything about blacks because you and I post on LGF.

237 califleftyb  Mon, Jan 9, 2012 11:40:40am

What does he have to do to get fired, sodomize the NBC Peacock? Apparently 30+ years of anti-Semitism and hate isn't enough for the bean counters at 30 Rock.


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