Live Video: Obama Speaks at Newtown Vigil
[Live video concluded…]
[Live video concluded…]
1 | Randall Gross Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:15:26pm |
We are going to hear about creeping shariah because of this prayer from certain ugly quarters, you can count on it.
2 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:07pm |
A Muslim boy is singing.
This religious stuff is getting to me. First the Rabbi and the beautiful sorrowful Hebrew song.
4 | ElCapitanAmerica Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:46pm |
Amazing interfaith service, what a wonderful community
5 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:53pm |
Oh man, the Muslim benediction is going to freak conservatives the fuck out.
7 | Vicious Michigan Union Thug Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:22:35pm |
My mom, Dawn Hochsprung, was taken tragically from me. But she went down in a blaze of glory that truly represents who she was. #Newtown— Cristina Hassinger (@Chass63) December 16, 2012
8 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:25:07pm |
re: #7 Vicious Michigan Union Thug
The Rabbi and the Hebrew prayer was very touching. Very.
10 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:26:08pm |
I'm disturbed by the picture that's starting to come out of Adam Lanza's home life. His mother was a survivalist and gun nut concerned about the collapse of civilization, and Adam was home-schooled in this environment.
11 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:26:14pm |
re: #9 Khorramdin
Was there a muslim victim?
It's an interfaith service.
We don't know/care of the religion of the children. It does not matter in my mind.
I'm not religious at all, but this is touching me very much.
12 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:30:32pm |
re: #10 Charles Johnson
I'm disturbed by the picture that's starting to come out of Adam Lanza's home life. His mother was a survivalist and gun nut concerned about the collapse of civilization, and Adam was home-schooled in this environment.
Lord only knows what sort of warped world view such a home life could create in a kid's mind.
15 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:35:34pm |
re: #5 goddamnedfrank
I stand corrected. The Freepers haven't said anything really negative about the Muslim benediction or reading from the Qur'an.
Not yet at least, but I'm somewhat surprised.
17 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:38:14pm |
re: #2 Stanghazi
A Muslim boy is singing.
This religious stuff is getting to me. First the Rabbi and the beautiful sorrowful Hebrew song.
If you want to hear something that'll really get to you, check this out:
If they'd done that at this interfaith service, yeah, I'd be blubbering.
18 | Mich-again Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:38:25pm |
re: #12 Targetpractice
Lord only knows what sort of warped world view such a home life could create in a kid's mind.
And there are reports that she took her son to gun ranges to practice firing the weapons. Probably ran into quite a few whacked wingnut philosophers during those trips.
19 | Mich-again Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:39:08pm |
re: #10 Charles Johnson
I'm disturbed by the picture that's starting to come out of Adam Lanza's home life. His mother was a survivalist and gun nut concerned about the collapse of civilization, and Adam was home-schooled in this environment.
What could go wrong?
20 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:39:09pm |
Last time Obama gave a speech at a vigil for victims of a mass murderer, Jim Hoft tried to push a conspiracy theory that Obama was telling the crowd when to applaud:
Wingnut Blogger Jim Hoft Mistakes Closed Caption for Applause Prompt at Tucson Memorial
I wonder what he'll come up with this time.
21 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:40:18pm |
I'd be willing to make a deal with the wingnuts.
A firearms safety and handling class in every school, to go along with an actual sexual sex ed and health class.
And make all the kids go to an actual school, enough of this home schooling horseshit.
23 | Kid A Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:41:46pm |
Obama just interrupted a football game. The RW haters will take this to another level in three seconds. Book it.
24 | TedStriker Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:42:10pm |
re: #15 Dr Lizardo
I stand corrected. The Freepers haven't said anything really negative about the Muslim benediction or reading from the Qur'an.
Not yet at least, but I'm somewhat surprised.
Just give them time...they're good at being shitheads.
25 | stabby Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:43:44pm |
re: #21 Kragar
And make all the kids go to an actual school, enough of this home schooling horseshit.
Not gonna happen.
I used to think that home schooling was the coolest idea, because most schools are terrible places.
But then I realized that most people who home-school do it so that they can teach their kids that God hates all of their neighbors and is sending them to hell or something. And the bloom was off the lily.
I do remember one kid who got home schooled because he lived in a military town and the kids started beating him up when they found out he was gay. Seems legit in his case.
26 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:44:48pm |
re: #24 TedStriker
I know, but so far they've exercised some restraint which is most unusual for them. But like you said, give them time.
27 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:46:40pm |
re: #24 TedStriker
Just give them time...they're good at being shitheads.
They are not watching. They will get their talking points tomorrow from RW radio.
29 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:49:02pm |
You can see how much these kinds of speeches are weighing on him.
30 | TedStriker Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:50:28pm |
re: #25 stabby
Not gonna happen.
I used to think that home schooling was the coolest idea, because most schools are terrible places.
But then I realized that most people who home-school do it so that they can teach their kids that God hates all of their neighbors and is sending them to hell or something. And the bloom was off the lily.
I do remember one kid who got home schooled because he lived in a military town and the kids started beating him up when they found out he was gay. Seems legit in his case.
Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.
I wonder why that is...
31 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:51:16pm |
Obama is being smart, keeping to broad outlines and not saying the word 'guns'. He's not going to give the wingnuts a point they can look sensible latching on to, forcing them to beclown themselves in attacking him.
32 | ElCapitanAmerica Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:52:44pm |
This is the president I voted for ... yes Mr. President we all have to change.
33 | Feline Fearless Leader Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:54:17pm |
re: #31 Dark_Falcon
Obama is being smart, keeping to broad outlines and not saying the word 'guns'. He's not going to give the wingnuts a point they can look sensible latching on to, forcing them to beclown themselves in attacking him.
Might be that he is not so much of a political animal to feel he has to inject politics into this event. Could be that he is a human being.
34 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:54:17pm |
re: #25 stabby
I knew a girl that was homeschooled until the 10th grade, as per Washington state law. Really sweet, really smart, and when she shot me down, she was so damned nice about I asked her again. We ended up friends.
But then, owing to a lack of social skills, and having been raised on an isolated religious commune, by her mid-20s she ended up a smack addict. She hooked for awhile to feed her addiction.
Finally hanged herself in 1998.
35 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:54:56pm |
re: #31 Dark_Falcon
Apparently, some very empathetic Brazilians made a little memorial on Copacabana Beach.
The world doesn't hate us, but they may dislike our stupid, self-contradicting foreign policy. I don't like it either.
People like Jeremy Clarkson are in the minority. Look at the World-Wide Response to this.
36 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:55:54pm |
Freepers are pissed off that NBC cut away from the 49ers vs. Patriots game to show Obama's speech.
Hopefully now they can get back to what is really important, a football game.
/
37 | Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:56:04pm |
re: #30 TedStriker
Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.
I wonder why that is...
My autistic granddaughter might be homeschooled if she can't hold it together in class, or if she loses her shared aide. So far so good (4th grade), but the coming interaction with older kids will also be a threat. I'm reserving judgment on the shooter's mother because of that.
38 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:56:05pm |
re: #33 Feline Fearless Leader
He still has to be careful anyways. Say one thing about guns, and hello media circus.
39 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:57:23pm |
George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’
Will, however, pointed to boys in single-parent homes as a source of the problem.
“We ought to bring in Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago,” he insisted. “Chicago is an epidemic of violence with young, largely unparented — that is, no father in the home — adolescent males. That’s a problem quite separate from this.”
The conservative columnist also worried that the massacre of 20 children at an elementary school in Connecticut would be used to “ratchet up the security of schools and elsewhere in public spaces.”
41 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:57:58pm |
re: #33 Feline Fearless Leader
Might be that he is not so much of a political animal to feel he has to inject politics into this event. Could be that he is a human being.
Presidents are political animals by nature. They can be human as well and this one is.
42 | bratwurst Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:58:21pm |
Here we go:
Absolute slime ball, #Obama exploiting memorial service to push radical #GunControl. His extremism knows no lows #Newtown— Matt Barber (@jmattbarber) December 17, 2012
43 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:58:51pm |
44 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:58:53pm |
re: #39 Kragar
George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’
His parents split when he was 17. Tell George to try again.
45 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:59:01pm |
re: #42 bratwurst
Obama: "Are we prepared to say that such violence visited upon our children year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?"
— Liz Heron (@lheron) December 17, 2012
Matt Barber says yes.
46 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:00pm |
re: #43 Targetpractice
That was quick.
Meh. So generic he probably had it written an hour ago and was just waiting to push the tweet button...
47 | wrenchwench Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:00pm |
re: #39 Kragar
George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’
Right. The kind of homes that produced Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
Oh, wait. I see what he means...
48 | Kid A Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:01pm |
Well done, Mr. President, well done. Now let the haters go Linda Blair via The Exorcist.
49 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:01pm |
re: #39 Kragar
George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’
He has a point about the dangers of boys who are 'lightly parented' as I've heard the term used. But that isn't a problem that can be fixed quickly. Family breakdown is a cultural problem that will take decades to solve.
51 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:01:49pm |
I feel pretty safe predicting that this week, we'll see a lot of truly repugnant views expressed by the right wing noise machine.
52 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:01:53pm |
re: #42 bratwurst
Here we go:
[Embedded content]
@jmattbarber Go to Hell.Go directly to Hell.Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
— Kurt Akemann (@Dark_Falcon7) December 17, 2012
53 | Khorramdin Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:03:44pm |
[Link: news.blogs.cnn.com...]
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Still not a good time to talk about gun control.
54 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:04:15pm |
re: #30 TedStriker
Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.
I wonder why that is...
There are quite a few leftist and secular homeschoolers in Madison, WI. They basically feel that the school curriculum is watered down and prevents their kids from Achieving. (Unfortunately it's a rather accurate feeling - I know my son's academics have gone through the roof since he got into a high quality small town public school this fall.) Usually it's the ones who are too poor for Montessori, et al.
55 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:04:58pm |
Bryan Fischer has gone full blown troll tonight, good to know that he is having fun taunting liberals over the deaths of 27 people...
Samson killed a whole bunch of Philistines using the jawbone of an ass. I propose a federal ban on donkeys.— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 16, 2012
Two men die in automobile accident. i propose a federal ban on cars. washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/...— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 16, 2012
David killed Goliath with a slingshot. I propose a federal ban on rocks.— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 16, 2012
Samson killed a batch of Philistines with a collapsing roof. I propose a federal ban on buildings.— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 16, 2012
56 | Henchman 25 Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:05:05pm |
re: #42 bratwurst
Here we go:
[Embedded content]
Thanks for admitting you think guns are more important than children, asswipe.
58 | Romantic Heretic Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:07:36pm |
re: #39 Kragar
George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’
And this is what passes as a 'conservative intellectual'.
59 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:07:51pm |
Samson was a violent sociopath in desperate need of incarceration.
60 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:06pm |
re: #55 watching you tiny alien kittens are
Bryan Fischer has gone full blown troll tonight, good to know that he is having fun taunting liberals over the deaths of 27 people...
[Embedded content]
And I propose a federal ban on rants by Bible-thumping assholes.
61 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:08pm |
Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.
62 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:25pm |
re: #55 watching you tiny alien kittens are
I guess his demons are going to circulate a while longer before a Gadarene swine helps him out.
63 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:25pm |
re: #58 Romantic Heretic
And this is what passes as a 'conservative intellectual'.
I know. He didn't even mention the Bible or Jesus once. What a fraud.
/
64 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:48pm |
65 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:51pm |
re: #58 Romantic Heretic
And this is what passes as a 'conservative intellectual'.
Will has some decent points, whereas Fischer is just being a shithead.
66 | BongCrodny Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:09:05pm |
re: #52 Dark_Falcon
Go to Hell. Go directly to Hell. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
I could have expressed the same thoughts to him in two words.
67 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:09:31pm |
re: #61 Charles Johnson
Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.
TEAM TEAM TEAM!!!! 26 dead, fuck it...TEAM!!!
68 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:00pm |
re: #66 BongCrodny
It is much more satisfying to yell at someone in the manner he did.
69 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:24pm |
The Secret Service had to bring its guns right into this auditorium. They were discrete, as always, but we know they did. There was absolutely no choice though. Even here. Even now. Think about it.
70 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:41pm |
re: #66 BongCrodny
I could have expressed the same thoughts to him in two words.
So could I, but I like my replies longer and cleaner.
71 | Vicious Michigan Union Thug Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:45pm |
72 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:11:17pm |
re: #68 ProMayaLiberal
It is much more satisfying to yell at someone in the manner he did.
Thank you, sir.
73 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:11:36pm |
74 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:11:42pm |
America now has 300 million firearms, a barrage of NRA-backed gun laws—and record casualties from mass killers.
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]
75 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:12:47pm |
re: #72 Dark_Falcon
That's the way I deal with Destro, after all.
76 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:00pm |
re: #71 Vicious Michigan Union Thug
Pamela is too.
"Pam Geller attacks Barack Obama" is like "Sun comes up in the east". It's utterly predictable that she'll use a horror like Sandy Hook to spew her bile. Hate is all she seems to know.
77 | Renaissance_Man Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:20pm |
re: #74 jaunte
America now has 300 million firearms, a barrage of NRA-backed gun laws—and record casualties from mass killers.
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]
And the worst part isn't even the mass shootings. It's the thousands of ones and twos, every day, that you never hear about. All so a few Americans can play pretend.
78 | Vicious Michigan Union Thug Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:30pm |
79 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:40pm |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
"Pam Geller attacks Barack Obama" is like "Sun comes up in the east". It's utterly predictable that she'll use a horror like Sandy Hook to spew her bile. Hate is all she seems to know.
She truly is a miserable human being. Must be miserable to be her with all that hate.
80 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:14:17pm |
This is the big showdown with the kook right. Obama has to take meaningful action, there is no choice at all about that. In turn, anything meaningful he proposes will lead to an unholy outburst of caterwauling, obstruction, and hate speech from the right, and probably some violence from the fringe.
81 | Kid A Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:16:54pm |
I'm hanging out watchung the game with two friends that are not Obama supporters, but they are not haters, either. They were both moved by Obama's speech. Progress.
82 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:17:35pm |
RT @deadspin A sampling of morons--many racist--angry NBC pre-empted NFL to show Obama speech deadsp.in/hxwFEIg— Touré (@Toure) December 17, 2012
83 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:17:44pm |
84 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:18:07pm |
re: #77 Renaissance_Man
And the worst part isn't even the mass shootings. It's the thousands of ones and twos, every day, that you never hear about. All so a few Americans can play pretend.
Like this one:
The meeting Thursday was tense between the used car salesman and his boss.
And when salesman Keith Edward Grimmett returned to work the next day, he stormed into his supervisor's office at a Mac Haik dealership in west Houston. Within seconds, police said, Grimmett pulled out a pistol and opened fire, striking Robert Kuentz in the neck.
[Link: www.chron.com...]
Charge upgraded to murder in shooting of Mac Haik dealership manager
Police initially charged Keith Edward Grimmett, 49, with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon after he allegedly opened fire at 9:30 a.m. Friday at the Mac Haik dealership in the 11700 block of the Katy Freeway. His charges were upgraded when the wounded manager, identified in court records as Robert Kuentz, died Monday at Memorial Hermann Hospital.
All you people in management out there feel safer now?
85 | ElCapitanAmerica Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:18:28pm |
And so it begins: Fox's Krauthammer calls Obama speech "highly political." Nina Easton: "disturbing that O is going to act unilaterally."— Joe Adalian (@TVMoJoe) December 17, 2012
86 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:18:49pm |
re: #79 HappyWarrior
She truly is a miserable human being. Must be miserable to be her with all that hate.
I sometimes speculate to myself on whether she has some kind of monomaniacal fixation or pathological issues. The sheer level of hatred she obviously possesses is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.
87 | bratwurst Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:19:31pm |
Fox News: President Obama didn't mention Benghazi once is his Sandy Hook speech.— LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) December 17, 2012
88 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:19:32pm |
re: #82 Gus
[Embedded content]
Our neighbors. Our fucking asshole neighbors. I almost want a gun against them, because they are terrifying.
89 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:19:56pm |
re: #59 Kragar
Samson was a violent sociopath in desperate need of incarceration.
It wasn't Sampson's fault, it was that evil, conniving slut Delilah who led him astray. Don't you know that in the bible the moral of the story is always that women are evil?
///
90 | A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:20:10pm |
re: #82 Gus
[Embedded content]
When the speech started the game moved to 2 different channels. NBCsports and CNBC. then returned after Obama finished
91 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:21:34pm |
re: #89 watching you tiny alien kittens are
Samson: I'll bet you 30 robes you cannot solve my riddle, however! If you do solve the riddle, I'll not only give you the robes -- fresh from the backs of innocent corpses -- but I'll throw in absolute genocide for all your people!
Philistine 1: That doesn't sound like a fun wedding game.
Philistine 2: I've got Apples to Apples in my chariot.
Samson: I don't know ...
Philistine 1: OK, how about this? Let's do Apples to Apples first, then, if you're not having fun, we can do your Casual Massacre thing later? Cool? All right, here we go. First card says: Neighborly!
Samson: Blood-typhoon!
Philistine 2: You ... you don't say it, you just pick one of these cards in your hand to turn in and ... you're writing "blood-typhoon" on the card now, aren't you? We're playing Casual Massacre after this no matter what, aren't we?
92 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:23:55pm |
re: #90 A Man for all Seasons
When the speech started the game moved to 2 different channels. NBCsports and CNBC. then returned after Obama finished
Not before 34 ni*CLAING*s on twitter.
Priorities are toast.
93 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:28:49pm |
Piers Morgan Explodes At Gun Advocate: 'How Many Kids Have To Die' Before You Change Your Mind? mediaite.com/tv/piers-morga... via @mediaite— Joy Reid (@TheReidReport) December 17, 2012
94 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:30:09pm |
95 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:30:34pm |
RT @daveholmes: Obama politicized this moment only if "it should be harder to murder roomfuls of children" is a political statement.
— Anthony De Rosa (@AntDeRosa) December 17, 2012
96 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:30:54pm |
I'm sorry...I have to say it...FUCK YOU OBAMA#tcot #NRA #2ndAmendent #newtown #islam— Joseph D.(@dattiljs) December 17, 2012
97 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:31:10pm |
re: #94 Dark_Falcon
That isn't smart. Attacking someone like that just pisses them off.
So what will they do when pissed? PULL THEIR GUN?
really
98 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:32:04pm |
The right wing talking point emerges:
Fox's Krauthammer calls Obama speech "highly political." << talk of preventing massacres is now considered "political" by the right— igorvolsky (@igorvolsky) December 17, 2012
99 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:32:14pm |
re: #96 goddamnedfrank
Another patriot, clutching his gun totem to scare away Mr. Death.
100 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:32:54pm |
re: #95 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Here's the original.
Obama politicized this moment only if "it should be harder to murder roomfuls of children" is a political statement.— Dave Holmes (@DaveHolmes) December 17, 2012
101 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:34:16pm |
I repeat: the right won't be happy until we are one big Mogadishu. Shame on them. Those 26 #Newtown women and children didn't have to die.— Joy Reid (@TheReidReport) December 17, 2012
102 | Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:35:07pm |
Freep never fails:
To: SoFloFreeperDammit, I have money on this game. Didn’t bet the over/under on dead schoolchildren, so who cares about this crap?
8 posted on Sun 16 Dec 2012 07:54:26 PM CST by Wolfie
104 | Petero1818 Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:36:43pm |
Hard to know where to start with this Freeper
To: quantim
We can’t keep mass murdering muslims off planes because they have a right to travel but banning guns is OK?10 posted on Sun Dec 16 2012 21:32:40 GMT-0500 (EST) by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
105 | Killgore Trout Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:37:33pm |
106 | Stanghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:37:47pm |
This, this is the saddest display of our country I've seen. To date.
108 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:40:19pm |
Note the left's bully tactics on Sandy Hook: if you oppose knee-jerk ineffective gun legislation, you must not care about school massacres.
— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) December 17, 2012
Oh my, bullying.
109 | moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:40:56pm |
I jeep having to remember that the most prominent feature of the far right in this country is a total lack of empathy.
110 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:41:56pm |
Neither Boehner, nor especially anybody who might replace him as Speaker, is going to allow any any new gun control legislation to reach the House floor. Feinstein's talking about reinstating the assault weapons ban, but it's simply not gonna happen.
Not saying we shouldn't talk about it or try to change public opinion for future elections, but pragmatically speaking don't get your hopes up. The Republicans know that their next big contest is 2014, when old cranks tend to come out in force and younger liberals tend to stay home. If we Democrats want a chance at changing the dynamic we need to work non-stop between now and then on our midterm game plan.
112 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:44:33pm |
Benghazi
Day 1.
Politicized by Romney.
Day 2 through present: Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.
Newtown
Day 1.
How dare Obama politicize this!
//Wingnut
113 | A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:45:44pm |
re: #108 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Oh my, bullying.
Uh Ben..We also oppose ineffectual gun legislation.. but don't worry..America will get it right this time. You are on the wrong side of reason and history
114 | Amory Blaine Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:46:42pm |
What a foul little monster Ben Shapiro is.
115 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:48:01pm |
re: #110 goddamnedfrank
Neither Boehner, nor especially anybody who might replace him as Speaker, is going to allow any any new gun control legislation to reach the House floor. Feinstein's talking about reinstating the assault weapons ban, but it's simply not gonna happen.
Not saying we shouldn't talk about it or try to change public opinion for future elections, but pragmatically speaking don't get your hopes up. The Republicans know that their next big contest is 2014, when old cranks tend to come out in force and younger liberals tend to stay home. If we Democrats want a chance at changing the dynamic we need to work non-stop between now and then on our midterm game plan.
If and only if there is a pickup of seats in the house and a 60 majority in the senate after 2014 will any significant legislation happen. With lots of difficult voter education between now and then. Trying to pass just another rehash of a bill that did no good the first time will not help. The cat is already out of the bag so what do you do to herd it the direction you want it to go rather than the way someone else does? That's what we really need to figure out.
The far right is assuming they'll pick up seats and be stronger in two years. The center & the left need to prove them wrong.
116 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:49:08pm |
Oh, my quick one sentence Hobbit review: If you're not into this then you will probably be bored to tears.
117 | JRCMYP Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:52:30pm |
re: #30 TedStriker
Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.
I wonder why that is...
A friend of mine is a secular homeschooler in Georgia. She doesn't want her children subjected to the "you're going to hell" crap that many secular kids face in religious communities. Most people assume she's homeschooling because she's evangelical. She's not. She's into science.
118 | moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:53:23pm |
re: #115 William Barnett-Lewis
If and only if there is a pickup of seats in the house and a 60 majority in the senate after 2014 will any significant legislation happen. With lots of difficult voter education between now and then. Trying to pass just another rehash of a bill that did no go will not help. The cat is already out of the bag so what do you do to herd it the direction you want it to go rather than the way someone else does? That's what we really need to figure out.
The far right is assuming they'll pick up seats and be stronger in two years. The center & the left need to prove them wrong.
The problem is one if intensity. The people who want sensible gun legislation may be in the majority, but they lack intensity in comparison to the gun zealots. You don't necessarily need a majority to win, but you do need the most passion and so far all of the passion on this issue is on the gun nut side.
119 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:54:52pm |
re: #115 William Barnett-Lewis
That's your plan. for my part I'm going look into getting conservative who are strong as well as sane into office. I'd like the far right marginalized, but my idea of how to do it differs from yours.
121 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:57:15pm |
122 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:58:23pm |
re: #121 Dark_Falcon
Comedians spend a good bit of time doing that.
Obama speech: step forward (minus the religious bs), but still can't say the word "guns"; like the NRA literally has guns to our heads— Bill Maher (@billmaher) December 17, 2012
Derp.
123 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:58:32pm |
NRA WAR ON AMERICA AND OBAMA twitter.com/JeffersonObama… twitter.com/JeffersonObama… twitter.com/JeffersonObama… twitter.com/JeffersonObama…
— Jeff Gauvin (@JeffersonObama) December 17, 2012
124 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:58:36pm |
re: #118 moderatelyradicalliberal
The problem is one if intensity. The people who want sensible gun legislation may be in the majority, but they lack intensity in comparison to the gun zealots. You don't necessarily need a majority to win, but you do need the most passion and so far all of the passion on this issue is on the gun nut side.
Passion? True enough, though I might call it something else. At one of the calmer gun sites I know of, I saw this statement earlier today:
Gun permit?? A bread crumb tossed to a sleeping society awoken by the sound of complacency. "They are for your own good", and "you will understand when you see all the lives they save". Yes master, what else will you toss me from your bag of infringements?? Do you want me to roll over and play dead? I do that very well.
That's how they think.
125 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:59:00pm |
127 | TedStriker Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:59:39pm |
re: #93 Gus
[Embedded content]
Piers Morgan is a twit, but I agree on that sentiment: how many people have to die in incidents like this before this country gets serious on gun ownership?
I get the feeling that too many Americans who own guns see incidents like Newtown, Clackamas, and Aurora as collateral damage, a necessary blood sacrifice to the all-holy Second Amendment, which must never be challenged or updated for the times.
128 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:00:00pm |
re: #126 Gus
"Vote November 4: YOU WON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE!!!!!"
129 | TedStriker Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:00:04pm |
re: #94 Dark_Falcon
That isn't smart. Attacking someone like that just pisses them off.
Was Morgan wrong?
130 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:02:25pm |
re: #123 jaunte
[Embedded content]
He should pull the image of Obama as Heath Ledger's Joker. The NRA didn't sponsor that image's creation, nor to my knowledge did it make use of said image.
/People shouldn't be faulted for what they did not do. I give Barack Obama that fundamental fairness as well.
131 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:03:06pm |
re: #130 Dark_Falcon
You're right. Also I had a bet with myself that you would point that out.
132 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:03:08pm |
Because I generally trust our elected officials of both parties to follow the stupidest course of action and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory whenever possible, I'm worried that Dems are going to spend 2013 going full-throttle on gun control and nothing else, giving the GOP a chance to take "ownership" of economic issues. Eventually the shock of Newtown will wear off, and people will get sick of hearing about gun control while their economic situation continues to suck. Then 2014 and possibly 2016 turns out exactly the same as 2010, with wingnut tea partiers being re-elected and a crop of new ones coming in.
What's the strongest argument that my concerns are unfounded? Anyone?
133 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:03:16pm |
re: #129 TedStriker
Was Morgan wrong?
I cannot reply based on one line. I'd need to see the transcript.
134 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:04:25pm |
re: #125 Four More Tears
A football game in which many if not most of the players are African American.
Racism FAIL.
135 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:04:50pm |
re: #132 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
Because I generally trust our elected officials of both parties to follow the stupidest course of action and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory whenever possible, I'm worried that Dems are going to spend 2013 going full-throttle on gun control and nothing else, giving the GOP a chance to take "ownership" of economic issues. Eventually the shock of Newtown will wear off, and people will get sick of hearing about gun control while their economic situation continues to suck. Then 2014 and possibly 2016 turns out exactly the same as 2010, with wingnut tea partiers being re-elected and a crop of new ones coming in.
What's the strongest argument that my concerns are unfounded? Anyone?
None. That is exactly the most likely outcome.
136 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:06:42pm |
137 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:06:59pm |
@gundeaths is tweeting every gun death in the US "regardless of cause and without comment."
138 | Vicious Michigan Union Thug Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:09:01pm |
Awww, poor widdle @DLoesch is like so totally persecuted!
Stop hurting her feewings!
139 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:09:28pm |
re: #123 jaunte
The U.N. Arms Trade Treaty has zero chance of passing, hell they wouldn't even pass the disabilities treaty. Never mind that the treaty has nothing to do with gun sales or ownership within the United States, only international sales. The wingnuts will keep spinning lies and convincing their supporters that it is a threat to the 2nd Amendment. Then when it goes down in flames they can declare victory and brag to all their mouth-breathing followers about how they "saved" the 2nd Amendment from extinction.
It's fucking sickening...
140 | steve_davis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:10:44pm |
re: #15 Dr Lizardo
I stand corrected. The Freepers haven't said anything really negative about the Muslim benediction or reading from the Qur'an.
Not yet at least, but I'm somewhat surprised.
Give it time, Doc. It hasn't been translated into Redneckese yet, so they're still just standing out in the middle of the road, stunned by the headlights and waiting to jump up into the car grille.
141 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:10:47pm |
Statement of Muslim Community at Newtown, Conn, Interfaith Service: youtu.be/oHvYZeUV9EE @jihadwatchrs @atlasshrugs @cairnational @splcenter— Gus (@Gus_802) December 17, 2012
142 | palomino Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:11:08pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
That's your plan. for my part I'm going look into getting conservative who are strong as well as sane into office. I'd like the far right marginalized, but my idea of how to do it differs from yours.
But even sane conservatives are owned lock, stock and barrel by the NRA.
They won't support any type of gun regulation, license, restriction, or any of the other things--regardless of how sensible and moderate--that might reduce the number of public shootings.
143 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:11:14pm |
re: #136 ProMayaLiberal
Get my Twitter message?
I should note, Biden said something similar in 1999.
Replied.
144 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:12:43pm |
Fox News spin: gun control is not the answer, making schools safe w "bars on the doors, arming principals, lockdowns."#FoxNewsIsEvil
— DAVID ® ™(@intenseCA) December 17, 2012
Car dealers, you're on your own.
145 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:12:51pm |
re: #139 watching you tiny alien kittens are
The U.N. Arms Trade Treaty has zero chance of passing, hell they wouldn't even pass the disabilities treaty. Never mind that the treaty has nothing to do with gun sales or ownership within the United States, only international sales. The wingnuts will keep spinning lies and convincing their supporters that it is a threat to the 2nd Amendment. Then when it goes down in flames they can declare victory and brag to all their mouth-breathing followers about how they "saved" the 2nd Amendment from extinction.
It's fucking sickening...
The Disabilities Treaty may pass someday in a less contentious time. The small arms treaty will never pass the US Senate. The people of the United States are simply too leery of the UN for it to pass.
146 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:28pm |
re: #143 Dark_Falcon
I think many of the Foreign Policy guys from back then have been permanently affected by those 2 wars. Biden quite openly said something himself. Tweeting it to you.
147 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:33pm |
re: #141 Gus
A very heartfelt statement. Very nice. Masha'Allah.
148 | Interesting Times Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:36pm |
re: #145 Dark_Falcon
The Disabilities Treaty may pass someday
in a less contentious timewhen republicans regain some semblance of a soul. The small arms treaty will never pass the US Senate. Thepeopleparanoid, stupid wingnuts of theUnited StatesGOP base are simply too leery of the UN for it to pass.
Fixed.
150 | moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:17:09pm |
re: #125 Four More Tears
Well, I guess Hello There Racists will have some new entries.
[Link: hellothereracists.tumblr.com...]
151 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:17:21pm |
re: #147 Dr Lizardo
A very heartfelt statement. Very nice. Masha'Allah.
Love the melody of the song. Fantastic. He is also the figure of the young child tonight. The young man almost broke down which I admire.
152 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:17:25pm |
re: #140 steve_davis
I did see on a different thread some grumbling about the fact that Muslims were present.
What small-minded imbeciles Freepers are.
153 | Dr Lizardo Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:18:14pm |
re: #151 Gus
Yes, I noticed that as well. He was choked up.
154 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:19:56pm |
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
155 | moderatelyradicalliberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:21:16pm |
re: #154 Kragar
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
You've explained to her that she should never ever quote anything from Blazing Saddles outside of your house right?
156 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:21:20pm |
re: #154 Kragar
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
She/He should do well in your school's talent show, though Mel Brooks is somewhat risque.
157 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:22:23pm |
re: #156 Dark_Falcon
Have her save the routine for High School.
158 | TedStriker Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:22:52pm |
re: #154 Kragar
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
re: #155 moderatelyradicalliberal
You've explained to her that she should never ever quote anything from Blazing Saddles outside of your house right?
re: #156 Dark_Falcon
She/He should do well in your school's talent show, though Mel Brooks is somewhat risque.
Obligatory:
159 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:22:55pm |
160 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:24:13pm |
re: #154 Kragar
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
It's twue! It's twue!
//
161 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:26:34pm |
re: #160 Targetpractice
It's twue! It's twue!
//
So far, she's been fixated on "A wed wose... how womantic." and "I'm so tired."
162 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:26:40pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
That's your plan. for my part I'm going look into getting conservative who are strong as well as sane into office. I'd like the far right marginalized, but my idea of how to do it differs from yours.
You'll still be happily supporting bigots. You're simply never going to view marriage equality as the fundamental civil rights issue it really is.
163 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:32:31pm |
re: #159 Dark_Falcon
I hope you can see my point of view on the Twitter Convo. What I realized last week made me quite literally ill, an accomplishment for incidents that occurred 15-21 years ago.
164 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:35:27pm |
re: #145 Dark_Falcon
The Disabilities Treaty may pass someday in a less contentious time. The small arms treaty will never pass the US Senate. The people of the United States are simply too leery of the UN for it to pass.
They're leery of them because of lies told to them by the right wing, including the GOP in general, who are undermining America's security by doing so.
165 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:38:48pm |
re: #164 Obdicut
They're leery of them because of lies told to them by the right wing, including the GOP in general, who are undermining America's security by doing so.
It's not just that. The UN is indeed often corrupt, inefficient, and anti-American. The lurid stories told about the UN are generally wrong, but there's enough real dirt there to make the UN problematic.
166 | wheat-dogghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:38:49pm |
re: #154 Kragar
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Part of her homeschooling curriculum?
///
167 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:39:34pm |
My version, fwiw:
1. All self-loading centerfire rifles join machine guns and suppressors in class 3. They could be a less restricted sub-class, 3b or something, but the basics would still be there: Application, license fee, registration, and sign off by local law enforcement. Double action centerfire semi-automatic pistols with magazines larger than 10 rounds go in the same category.
2. Auto-loading shotguns restricted to 4 rounds magazine capacity, 5 in all.
3. No new restrictions on rimfire rifles or pistols, nor on manual action shotguns, revolvers, or single shot pistols.
4. No repetition of the original AWB prohibition on bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and movable stocks. These are cosmetic/replica or convenience features that do not add to a gun's suitability for mass shootings. The folding or sliding stocks might help concealability to a small extent but the 26' minimum length still applies. Let them have their scary black guns. Indeed, why shouldn't a gun look scary?
These are really fairly mild proposals, but they would still raise an absolute howl from the gun cult. Let them howl. It probably can't pass for a while but it does shift the debate and puts them in an increasingly bad debating position.
168 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:41:57pm |
re: #165 Dark_Falcon
It's not just that. The UN is indeed often corrupt, inefficient, and anti-American. The lurid stories told about the UN are generally wrong, but there's enough real dirt there to make the UN problematic.
Nope. The reason for animosity towards the UN has nothing to do with the actual realities. And the UN is anti-American? We have one of the fucking seats on the security counsel and veto power. We are one of the most dominant parts of the UN. Yeah, there's a lot of countries in the world that are anti-American, and they get to be part of the UN because it's the fucking UN and that's how it works. If they weren't part of it, it wouldn't be the fucking UN.
Jesus christ. Cheerlead your 'side' if you want but stop trying to bullshit me. The GOP freaks out an lies about the UN constantly, like on this fucking treaty, and that is why people come up with these whackaloon suspicions of it. Take some responsibility for what the people you support do.
169 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:42:35pm |
re: #167 Shiplord Kirel
My version, fwiw:
1. All self-loading centerfire rifles join machine guns and suppressors in class 3. They could be a less restricted sub-class, 3b or something, but the basics would still be there: Application, license fee, registration, and sign off by local law enforcement. Double action centerfire semi-automatic pistols with magazines larger than 10 rounds go in the same category.
2. Auto-loading shotguns restricted to 4 rounds magazine capacity, 5 in all.
3. No new restrictions on rimfire rifles or pistols, nor on manual action shotguns, revolvers, or single shot pistols.
4. No repetition of the original AWB prohibition on bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and movable stocks. These are cosmetic/replica or convenience features that do not add to a gun's suitability for mass shootings. The folding or sliding stocks might help concealability to a small extent but the 26' minimum length still applies. Let them have their scary black guns. Indeed, why shouldn't a gun look scary?These are really fairly mild proposals, but they would still raise an absolute howl from the gun cult. Let them howl. It probably can't pass for a while but it does shift the debate and puts them in an increasingly bad debating position.
My counter: Chief Law Enforcement Officer must be notified, but cannot veto the purchase. Transfer tax for semi-auto set at $50. Scrap rule on auto-shotguns, they aren't used in mass killings.
170 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:44:46pm |
171 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:45:08pm |
The UN is like the Federal Government for Wingnuts. Great when they back you up invading a country or denying someone their rights, a complete failure when they try and keep you from doing it.
172 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:46:16pm |
173 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:46:31pm |
re: #171 Kragar
The UN is like the Federal Government for Wingnuts. Great when they back you up invading a country or denying someone their rights, a complete failure when they try and keep you from doing it.
Sounds like the judiciary too. Really if one wants to have beefs with the UN fine, but don't turn every treaty that they support into a goddamn conspiracy bullshit fest. I'm still pissed about what happened with the Disabilities Treaty.
174 | BongCrodny Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:47:06pm |
I'm getting a feeling that Satt's not going to mind very much that he missed the Patriots game tonight.
175 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:47:09pm |
re: #167 Shiplord Kirel
Raise the ownership age for semi-automatic weapons for males to 27 years. Criminalize transfer of weapons to when said gun is allowed to be used by no one other than the registrant. Require yearly medical check-ups for licensees not limited to physical examination. Require yearly drug testing. Allow for a waiver in gun-free zones for the principals and VP.
176 | TedStriker Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:48:38pm |
re: #160 Targetpractice
It's twue! It's twue!
//
re: #165 Dark_Falcon
It's not just that. The UN is indeed often corrupt, inefficient, and anti-American. The lurid stories told about the UN are generally wrong, but there's enough real dirt there to make the UN problematic.
With the Birchers/conspiricists poisoning the well IRT the UN, its institutional problems (many of which also afflict our federal government) won't be addressed in any meaningful way, will it?
177 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:49:35pm |
re: #175 Gus
Raise the ownership age for semi-automatic weapons for males to 27 years. Criminalize transfer of weapons to when said gun is allowed to be used by no one other than the registrant. Require yearly medical check-ups for licensees not limited to physical examination. Require yearly drug testing. Allow for a waiver in gun-free zones for the principals and VP.
Require membership in a government run "well regulated militia" to track and certify gun ownership and competency.
178 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:49:46pm |
re: #175 Gus
Hell No! The first one wouldn't pass Constitutional muster, and makes no sense. And someone should be fine allowing their friend to fire off a few shots at the range. That's just for starters. Your idea is overly punitive and undoable.
179 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:49:52pm |
I can't believe it, I actually got suspended by Twitter. I guess I've been too nice.
180 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:03pm |
re: #177 Kragar
Require membership in a government run "well regulated militia" to track and certify gun ownership and competency.
Yep. Or they should always be registered for the draft. Regardless of age.
181 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:04pm |
To be frank though, the anti-UN conspiracy nonsense on the right is proof that a remnant of the isolationism that was once very prevalent within conservatism is still there.
182 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:21pm |
re: #169 Dark_Falcon
My counter: Chief Law Enforcement Officer must be notified, but cannot veto the purchase. Transfer tax for semi-auto set at $50. Scrap rule on auto-shotguns, they aren't used in mass killings.
I'd more towards this end but also require all sales to have a background check & photo ID. With the ubiquity of smart phones, an app for NICS would be a snap. Person sells with out doing a check gets a long Club Fed vacation. It doesn't necessarily have to be at an FFL but it must be done. I keep a bound book for my C&R, private gun sellers can too.
183 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:43pm |
re: #178 Dark_Falcon
Hell No! The first one wouldn't pass Constitutional muster, and makes no sense. And someone should be fine allowing their friend to fire off a few shots at the range. That's just for starters. Your idea is overly punitive and undoable.
Heh. My idea allows waivers for gun free zones! Take that! ;)
184 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:51:27pm |
re: #177 Kragar
Require membership in a government run "well regulated militia" to track and certify gun ownership and competency.
I'll meet you in the middle: Restrict center-fire self-loading rifles to active military personal, center-fire self-loading handguns to reservists.
185 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:51:43pm |
re: #175 Gus
Raise the ownership age for semi-automatic weapons for males to 27 years. Criminalize transfer of weapons to when said gun is allowed to be used by no one other than the registrant. Require yearly medical check-ups for licensees not limited to physical examination. Require yearly drug testing. Allow for a waiver in gun-free zones for the principals and VP.
Outright ban semi-autos that can be easily converted to full auto.
Limit clips to no more than 5 cartridges.
186 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:52:06pm |
re: #180 Gus
Yep. Or they should always be registered for the draft. Regardless of age.
This would be good. But then, I want 2 years national service for all anyway.
187 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:53:42pm |
re: #185 b_sharp
Outright ban semi-autos that can be easily converted to full auto.
Already exists. If ATF determines something can be easily converted, it's NFA and can't be sold outside of those rules.
188 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:54:05pm |
Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.
CT HADgun control laws, Lanza broke just about everyone of them. What good did those laws do? breitbart.com/Big-Journalism...— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 16, 2012
189 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:54:15pm |
re: #185 b_sharp
Outright ban semi-autos that can be easily converted to full auto.
Limit clips to no more than 5 cartridges.
I figure. OK, you can have your semi-automatics, but here's what we're going to do. Tough love. ;)
190 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:54:32pm |
re: #169 Dark_Falcon
My counter: Chief Law Enforcement Officer must be notified, but cannot veto the purchase. Transfer tax for semi-auto set at $50. Scrap rule on auto-shotguns, they aren't used in mass killings.
Good, you're at least willing to discuss it. I included the shotguns because many of the mass killers seem to bring them along even if they don't use them. They might well go there if they couldn't get the so-called assault rifles.
191 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:06pm |
re: #188 Kragar
Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.
[Embedded content]
If I tweeted I'd ask him if that's the case why worry about laws allowing gay marrage?
192 | dragonath Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:09pm |
You know, all I'd really ask for is some way to know how someone's got 47 assault rifles and a hundred thousand dollars worth of ammunition.
I bet the NRA doesn't think that is reasonable.
193 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:33pm |
re: #188 Kragar
Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.
[Embedded content]
Tell Bryan that all those guns didn't save Nancy Lanza's life. Let him work that one over in that empty head of his.
194 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:37pm |
re: #188 Kragar
Just below that oily surface, he's a nihilist.
195 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:56:02pm |
re: #188 Kragar
Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.
[Embedded content]
Yeah let's not make murder a crime because people are just going to do it. Really Fischer, get a new hobby and stop poisoning Twitter with your irrational bullshit.
197 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:59:05pm |
re: #172 Dark_Falcon
I was wondering, cause that would be a bit of a no-brainer to ban.
Ban on Full-Auto , excepting a few models under some sort of history arrangement, though they do need to be registered and tracked.
Split the remaining Guns into 2 classes.
The first is Non-Semi-Automatics & and the Old Semi-Auto Mechanisms, and the second your modern semi-automatics.
The process to get a gun of the second type should be more stringent. Also, it should have more thorough examinations for both, including a more rigorous background check for crimes and mental disorders, and interviews with people around them to vouch for them not being bugshit nuts, or being as evil as Shaitan himself.
198 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:01:33pm |
re: #190 Shiplord Kirel
Good, you're at least willing to discuss it. I included the shotguns because many of the mass killers seem to bring them along even if they don't use them. They might well go there if they couldn't get the so-called assault rifles.
Most of them have the tacticool pump guns though which get's messy because aside from cosmetics they are the same as the prefered American hunting shotgun.
One other thought is that ATF would have to have a shortish time frame (48 or 72 hours) to actively disapprove a semi-auto sale. No comment = approval.
199 | ReamWorks SKG Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:01:33pm |
I'm sure all LGF'ers don't fall for these things, but I was surprised that a few people I know forwarded a fake statement from "Morgan Freeman" to me.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
200 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:02:49pm |
re: #199 ReamWorks SKG
He's one of the new go-to guy for urban myths. I keep seeing quotes attributed to him.
201 | dragonath Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:03:56pm |
Just a little note here- the right wing in Canada is trying to emulate the US when it comes to guns. The current government is killing the gun registry piece by piece.
202 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:04:09pm |
re: #199 ReamWorks SKG
I'm sure all LGF'ers don't fall for these things, but I was surprised that a few people I know forwarded a fake statement from "Morgan Freeman" to me.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Yeah I saw that. Kind of reminded me of that phony Draft Christopher Walken movement for president meme. Outside my status on facebook, I only really post photos I take and music I'm digging at the moment.
203 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:04:14pm |
Wow, man brought to attention for racist comments in Deadspin post an hour ago. ==> RT @unaathletics: He is no longer a member of the team.
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) December 17, 2012
Keep posting, degenerates.
204 | BongCrodny Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:04:22pm |
re: #188 Kragar
Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.
CT HAD gun control laws, Lanza broke just about everyone of them. What good did those laws do?
So things might have turned out better without gun control laws?
Bryan "Wind-Up Monkey' Fischer.
205 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:06:16pm |
re: #190 Shiplord Kirel
Good, you're at least willing to discuss it. I included the shotguns because many of the mass killers seem to bring them along even if they don't use them. They might well go there if they couldn't get the so-called assault rifles.
Some of those are just pump-action models, though. Semi-auto shotguns also have legitimate use in a multiple assailant home-invasion scenario.
So: Registration of semi-auto shotguns, but at the least restrictive 'Any Other Weapon' level, with transfer tax of $5. Agreement by various states to permit ownership of at least 1 AOW for home defense. A stockless Mossberg is often just the thing to deal with an armed intruder.
206 | Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:07:10pm |
re: #192 dragonath
You know, all I'd really ask for is some way to know how someone's got 47 assault rifles and a hundred thousand dollars worth of ammunition.
I bet the NRA doesn't think that is reasonable.
Betting that somewhere along the way the 100K morphed to the ammo from the total value of guns/ammo. Even at today's prices 100k in ammo would be a storage problem, a couple tons. I don't see any real threat from an individual with many guns--it would be pretty hard to employ more than 3 or 4 in any crime. (Not valid if the guy is the arms room for a gang or nutgroup.)
207 | uncah91 Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:07:45pm |
re: #197 ProMayaLiberal
...
The process to get a gun of the second type should be more stringent. Also, it should have more thorough examinations for both, including a more rigorous background check for crimes and mental disorders, and interviews with people around them to vouch for them not being bugshit nuts, or being as evil as Shaitan himself.
Not that I necessarily disagree, but the way the conversation has been going in this direction makes me a little leery.
For example: Do you want a local sheriff, like say Arapiao in AZ, to have the power to decide who is "trustworthy" enough to have a gun of a certain type?
Mandate the same things for everyone, like gun safety certification and limited magazine size. But leave the subjective judgements out of it, unless we are talking about genuine mental health issues as certified by a mental health professional.
208 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:08:03pm |
re: #198 William Barnett-Lewis
Most of them have the tacticool pump guns though which get's messy because aside from cosmetics they are the same as the prefered American hunting shotgun.
One other thought is that ATF would have to have a shortish time frame (48 or 72 hours) to actively disapprove a semi-auto sale. No comment = approval.
Exactly. A gun should not be banned just because it looks 'scary'. The fraidy cats should instead be told to get a better grip on reality.
209 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:08:36pm |
re: #198 William Barnett-Lewis
Most of them have the tacticool pump guns though which get's messy because aside from cosmetics they are the same as the prefered American hunting shotgun.
One other thought is that ATF would have to have a shortish time frame (48 or 72 hours) to actively disapprove a semi-auto sale. No comment = approval.
Well, I only called for a magazine restriction, not registration, and then only for semi-auto. It is, in truth, something of a slippery slope, a phenomenon that abounds in this kind of discussion.
It's really quite striking how many mass shooters brought shotguns but ended up not using them. I wonder if the heavy recoil is a deterrent to these often dweebish types, especially compared to a 5.56 rifle.
210 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:09:00pm |
Girl survived shooting by playing dead. First thing she said to her mom: "Mommy, I'm OK but all my friends are dead." globalpost.com/dispatch/news/…
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) December 17, 2012
211 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:09:34pm |
This afternoon I started thinking about what the classroom might have looked like. I had to quell my thoughts. The horror.
212 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:09:36pm |
re: #208 Dark_Falcon
Exactly. A gun should not be banned just because it looks 'scary'. The fraidy cats should instead be told to get a better grip on reality.
Yeah. The people concerned about guns should get a grip on reality. Right.
213 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:03pm |
re: #208 Dark_Falcon
Exactly. A gun should not be banned just because it looks 'scary'. The fraidy cats should instead be told to get a better grip on reality.
It not how scary it looks, it's how easily it can raise the number of dead.
214 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:23pm |
re: #210 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Poor girl. I can't imagine going through something like this in my mid 20's. Don't even want to think about what it would have been like to be six and to witness such a thing.
215 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:26pm |
re: #207 uncah91
For example: Do you want a local sheriff, like say Arapiao in AZ, to have the power to decide who is "trustworthy" enough to have a gun of a certain type?
.
It's bad either direction. That's why I liked DF's idea up thread that the CLEO would need to be notified and maintain a db but would have no veto power. That would remain in the hands of ATF via NICS.
216 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:32pm |
re: #179 b_sharp
I can't believe it, I actually got suspended by Twitter. I guess I've been too nice.
Here you go, everything you should know about the twitter gulag and its mastermind Charles Johnson... (why does that name sound familiar?)
[Link: thetrenches.us...]
///+
217 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:38pm |
re: #209 Shiplord Kirel
Well, I only called for a magazine restriction, not registration, and then only for semi-auto. It is, in truth, something of a slippery slope, a phenomenon that abounds in this kind of discussion.
It's really quite striking how many mass shooters brought shotguns but ended up not using them. I wonder if the heavy recoil is a deterrent to these often dweebish types, especially compared to a 5.56 rifle.
Shotguns are underrated as fighting weapons, mostly because they are short range weapons. Shotguns are Kings in close, but overmatched once things get out 30-40 yards or so.
218 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:54pm |
People always ask, why are we here. We are here for other people. Our shared experiences. Our families; our friendships. The joy and sometimes sorrow of sharing our lives. Why are we here? We are here for each other.
219 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:11:29pm |
re: #218 Gus
People always ask, why are we here. We are here for other people. Our shared experiences. Our families; our friendships. The joy and sometimes sorrow of sharing our lives. Why are we here? We are here for each other.
I like this. Nicely said.
220 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:11:48pm |
re: #212 Four More Tears
Yeah. The people concerned about guns should get a grip on reality. Right.
62 mass killings in 30 years; not one stopped by an armed civilian.
221 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:12:13pm |
re: #218 Gus
People always ask, why are we here. We are here for other people. Our shared experiences. Our families; our friendships. The joy and sometimes sorrow of sharing our lives. Why are we here? We are here for each other.
I feel all warm and fuzzy.
222 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:12:19pm |
re: #219 HappyWarrior
I like this. Nicely said.
Thanks. Was thinking about it the other day while listening to Dawkins. I was in disagreement to an extent.
223 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:12:21pm |
re: #212 Four More Tears
Yeah. The people concerned about guns should get a grip on reality. Right.
No, fear mongers should get a grip. Some people 'concerned about guns' are fear-mongers, others are not.
224 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:13:11pm |
re: #220 jaunte
62 mass killings in 30 years; not one stopped by an armed civilian.
Yeah but only we banned no guns whatsoever. Everyone would be perfectly fine. Fucking idiots want to make this out to be a video game where you get a redo if you fail. This is real life damn it. I'm not afraid of guns. I won't lie though. I've never been that big on them.
225 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:02pm |
re: #223 Dark_Falcon
No, fear mongers should get a grip. Some people 'concerned about guns' are fear-mongers, others are not.
Many of those fear mongers you decry come from areas that average heavy gun related homicides. Try to have a little empathy with their pov even if you disagree with it.
226 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:21pm |
re: #224 HappyWarrior
The reality is, more guns = more death. Fewer guns = less death.
We get to choose what we want, if we want it enough.
227 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:34pm |
228 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:37pm |
re: #207 uncah91
I saw someone with the idea of interviews. I like that idea, but stumbled on wording.
Also, a law on ammo banning after-market magazines that are larger the maximum the gun manufacturer has their guns designed to.
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
I think Pump Shotguns could be legitimate hunting weapons though.
229 | uncah91 Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:47pm |
re: #213 b_sharp
It not how scary it looks, it's how easily it can raise the number of dead.
The cosmetic restrictions in the previous assault weapons ban were frivolous and had nothing to with the function of the weapon, though.
230 | allegro Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:16:26pm |
re: #223 Dark_Falcon
No, fear mongers should get a grip. Some people 'concerned about guns' are fear-mongers, others are not.
WTF? Fear mongers? Seriously? 20 little kids and 5 of their teachers are violently murdered by a kid with deadly weapons designed to kill a whole lot of people in a very short time and you accuse those of us who are saying ENOUGH of fear mongering?
231 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:16:42pm |
re: #227 Dark_Falcon
Good for them; still five people were killed and seven wounded.
233 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:17:16pm |
re: #197 ProMayaLiberal
I was wondering, cause that would be a bit of a no-brainer to ban.
Ban on Full-Auto , excepting a few models under some sort of history arrangement, though they do need to be registered and tracked.
You're just describing current law here. National Firearms Act plus the 1986 Hughes Amendment.
236 | Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:19:21pm |
None of this makes a bit of sense if the Supreme Court stays 5-4.
237 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:19:23pm |
Now at the Atlantic: trying to halt gun ownership is probably futile. We may have more luck stopping the bullets. bit.ly/RyP37J
— Philip Bump (@pbump) December 17, 2012
239 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:20:05pm |
Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:
Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.
240 | Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:21:04pm |
Poor skeleton steps out,
Dressed up in bad blood,
Bad brains, bad thoughts, and others deeds.Poor skeleton no doubt,
One of these days,
You can cast aside your human, be free.When the cities run with blood,
And you drink our health in mud,
"All flesh be gone."
Save your dry and joyous shout,
For the day poor skeleton steps out.Poor skeleton steps out,
Sprung from his life sentence,
Deep inside some muscle mask.Poor skeleton devout,
Propping up truck drivers,
Filmstars, thieves or queens, your brave task.When technology is rust,
And you write your book in dust,
"All flesh be gone."Can't buy tickets from a tout,
For the day poor skeleton steps out.Poor skeleton steps out,
Liberated from sex organs,
And brown, black, white skin.Poor skeleton you lout,
Don't you think that we might,
like to have been asked to join in?For good skeletons are we,
And we're dying to be free,
"All flesh be gone."I will scream or sulk and pout,
Until my poor skeleton steps out.Better watch out, here comes bony boy.
241 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:21:53pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
Shotguns are underrated as fighting weapons, mostly because they are short range weapons. Shotguns are Kings in close, but overmatched once things get out 30-40 yards or so.
You realize you're talking about guns with a certain kind of relish, right?
242 | allegro Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:07pm |
re: #239 Dark_Falcon
Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:
Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.
Nonsense. The coyotes have no interest in confronting humans. You do want to bring your cat in for the night, however.
243 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:35pm |
What should I do if I see a coyote?
You can stop and watch, but do not approach it. As with any wild animal, if it feels threatened by someone coming toward it or chasing it, it may feel the need to protect itself. DO NOT FEED or attempt to feed them. Once a wild animal gets accustomed to being fed by humans there is much more likelihood that an individual will get bitten by an animal looking for food.
[Link: www.nps.gov...]
244 | uncah91 Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:36pm |
re: #228 ProMayaLiberal
I saw someone with the idea of interviews. I like that idea, but stumbled on wording.
Also, a law on ammo banning after-market magazines that are larger the maximum the gun manufacturer has their guns designed to.
That would just allow manufacturers to design larger magazines. Simply lower the allowed magazine size, period. And it needs to be quite low. Modern semi autos that stagger the ammo in the clip are designed for a 15 round magazine, which is too large. If you simply ban 30 round magazines, I don't think you are really accomplishing anything.
245 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:47pm |
re: #239 Dark_Falcon
Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:
Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.
Still looking for a valid reason to carry a gun I see.
247 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:24:16pm |
re: #237 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Fairly solid argument, one that would very likely pass constitutional muster.
248 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:25:54pm |
re: #239 Dark_Falcon
Don't fucking shoot coyotes. They rarely attack humans and they weigh about 30 lbs. There have been a grand total of 2 fatal coyote attacks ever.
And you're the one talking about scardey-cats. Jesus.
249 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:26:29pm |
re: #243 jaunte
What should I do if I see a coyote?
I live in farming country where there are tens of thousands of coyotes and probably tens of thousands of human coyote encounters every year. I cannot remember hearing about an attack. Small pets have been killed, but not humans.
251 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:26:48pm |
re: #243 jaunte
What should I do if I see a coyote?
I hear you, but near a building like that, especially one with two places to pass under its veranda (one of which is covered stairs), you could end up close to a coyote without realizing it (I know that particular spot pretty well, so I'm describing things you can't see in the photo). That photo gave me something of a fright.
253 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:14pm |
re: #249 b_sharp
Rick Perry has the Texas coyotes intimidated.
254 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:15pm |
re: #237 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Can't connect. Which unconstitutional bullet tax plan is this one?
255 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:28pm |
America on its front lawn at midnight, scotch and revolver in hand, just blazing away into the shadows. Pale, sweaty belly glinting in the moonlight. "Coyotes, Martha!" American screams into the night. "Coyotes!"
256 | Kragar Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:36pm |
re: #239 Dark_Falcon
Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:
Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.
Might be.
Pepper spray would probably be better for them and you wouldn't risk killing someone if you're a shitty shot
257 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:52pm |
re: #248 Obdicut
Mountain Lion and Bears I can understand.
Not coyotes, unless you have a small dog or a cat.
Or you are one of those people with a Pet Skunk, Pet Raccoon, or Pet Fennec Fox.
Yes I am talking to you, over there in the corner.
258 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:28:25pm |
I run into coyotes quite frequently, day and night. They're all over the place here. Never once felt threatened or stalked. They eat rabbits.
259 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:28:43pm |
re: #254 William Barnett-Lewis
It's not specific, but notes that ammunition is not mentioned in the Constitution.
260 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:28:50pm |
re: #243 jaunte
I've seen about fifty coyotes in my life. Managed not to shoot any of them.
261 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:19pm |
@bryanjfischer Sounds as though you need a diaper changer-in-chief, since any mention of change in this country makes you pee your pants.— why ask (@ausador) December 17, 2012
262 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:33pm |
re: #249 b_sharp
I live in farming country where there are tens of thousands of coyotes and probably tens of thousands of human coyote encounters every year. I cannot remember hearing about an attack. Small pets have been killed, but not humans.
Illinois about two years back. Ontario & New Foundland have also had attacks. ISTR a young songwriter was killed in one of them. Thanks to climate change we're getting more coyote wolf hybrids and they are more likely to attack humans.
263 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:39pm |
re: #257 ProMayaLiberal
Mountain Lion and Bears I can understand.
Not coyotes, unless you have a small dog or a cat.
Or you are one of those people with a Pet Skunk, Pet Raccoon, or Pet Fennec Fox.
Yes I am talking to you, over there in the corner.
re: #258 goddamnedfrank
I run into coyotes quite frequently, day and night. They're all over the place here. Never once felt threatened or stalked. They eat rabbits.
They are no threat whatsoever, however, to road runners.
264 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:52pm |
265 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:30:04pm |
re: #258 goddamnedfrank
I run into coyotes quite frequently, day and night. They're all over the place here. Never once felt threatened or stalked. They eat rabbits.
They'll eat bigger things if they can. Deer are properly fearful, but not terrified of them.
266 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:30:34pm |
re: #259 jaunte
It's not specific, but notes that ammunition is not mentioned in the Constitution.
Ok, so if you can own a press but paper is taxed so high you can't afford it, do you still have freedom of the press?
267 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:30:39pm |
re: #260 Obdicut
I've seen about fifty coyotes in my life. Managed not to shoot any of them.
Same here. I've been within 30 or 40 yards of one while standing on the side of the road. They run away if you move.
I'd be far more concerned about coydogs.
268 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:15pm |
269 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:31pm |
re: #266 William Barnett-Lewis
Ok, so if you can own a press but paper is taxed so high you can't afford it, do you still have freedom of the press?
My memory is hazy, but I think SCOTUS may have ruled on that point.
270 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:31pm |
re: #265 Dark_Falcon
Do you understand that if you just shoot coyotes when you run into them, you're an asshole? And that they rarely attack humans? You don't have to generally be afraid of mammals that you outweigh by a factor of more than five.
271 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:33pm |
re: #266 William Barnett-Lewis
Freedom of the press is about ideas, not a specific dangerous tool.
272 | Gus Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:32:03pm |
re: #252 b_sharp
Fuck-n-eh!
Somes of us used to think walking like a badass was all you need to do. Now? These guys are all ready for the end of the world.
273 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:32:44pm |
New England is going to get the ball back again. They've almost caught up to San Fran now. Niners lead 31-24.
274 | Pawn of the Oppressor Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:33:09pm |
re: #167 Shiplord Kirel
My version, fwiw:
1. All self-loading centerfire rifles join machine guns and suppressors in class 3. They could be a less restricted sub-class, 3b or something, but the basics would still be there: Application, license fee, registration, and sign off by local law enforcement. Double action centerfire semi-automatic pistols with magazines larger than 10 rounds go in the same category.
2. Auto-loading shotguns restricted to 4 rounds magazine capacity, 5 in all.
3. No new restrictions on rimfire rifles or pistols, nor on manual action shotguns, revolvers, or single shot pistols.
4. No repetition of the original AWB prohibition on bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and movable stocks. These are cosmetic/replica or convenience features that do not add to a gun's suitability for mass shootings. The folding or sliding stocks might help concealability to a small extent but the 26' minimum length still applies. Let them have their scary black guns. Indeed, why shouldn't a gun look scary?These are really fairly mild proposals, but they would still raise an absolute howl from the gun cult. Let them howl. It probably can't pass for a while but it does shift the debate and puts them in an increasingly bad debating position.
I like your idea of simply moving a broad type of rifle into a pre-existing category. That would work. I would be OK with a magazine capacity restriction, and there ought to be a national buy-back on both high-cap mags and handguns in general. The magazines could go right back into the supply line for the military or national guard.
275 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:34:05pm |
re: #266 William Barnett-Lewis
Ok, so if you can own a press but paper is taxed so high you can't afford it, do you still have freedom of the press?
You are arguing that a bullet tax constitutes a defacto ban on firearms?
276 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:34:05pm |
re: #262 William Barnett-Lewis
Illinois about two years back. Ontario & New Foundland have also had attacks. ISTR a young songwriter was killed in one of them. Thanks to climate change we're getting more coyote wolf hybrids and they are more likely to attack humans.
Both coydogs and coywolfs have attacked humans. Newfoundland has had a couple of attacks. Alberta, Manitoba, and where I live, Saskatchewan have an over abundance of coyotes right now. A couple of years ago we were overrun with gophers, now we are overrun with coyotes.
277 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:35:47pm |
re: #275 Targetpractice
You are arguing that a bullet tax constitutes a defacto ban on firearms?
Doesn't have to be but it can be. And you can be damn sure that's where the arguments will go. How much is too much tax is older than the English language.
278 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:35:56pm |
re: #270 Obdicut
Do you understand that if you just shoot coyotes when you run into them, you're an asshole? And that they rarely attack humans? You don't have to generally be afraid of mammals that you outweigh by a factor of more than five.
Yes, I understand that. I might like to have a weapon in case they do attack, though. But with coyotes, I think I'd probably prefer a rattan cane myself.
279 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:36:24pm |
Why do I have this almost overwhelming urge to tell some people to fuck the hell off?
281 | dragonath Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:36:54pm |
re: #240 Charles Johnson
That song used to freak me out when I was younger.
282 | efuseakay Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:37:38pm |
re: #239 Dark_Falcon
Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:
Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.
There are Coyotes in my neighborhood on the North Shore. They never come within 50 feet of me at night... especially when I'm walking my 110lb Malamute. They are skittish, and very afraid of people... and bigger K-9s. A simple whoop or holler will scare them off. We never see them for more than 5 seconds before they run off.
283 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:38:14pm |
San Antonio: "Police investigate gunfire at movie theater" mysanantonio.com/news/local_new…
— e mcmorris-santoro (@evanmc_s) December 17, 2012
Coyote Hobbit fans.
284 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:38:30pm |
re: #282 efuseakay
There are Coyotes in my neighborhood on the North Shore. They never come within 50 feet of me at night... especially when I'm walking my 110lb Malamute. They are skittish, and very afraid of people... and bigger K-9s. A simple whoop or holler will scare them off. We never see them for more than 5 seconds before they run off.
Where on the North Shore?
285 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:38:57pm |
re: #277 William Barnett-Lewis
Doesn't have to be but it can be. And you can be damn sure that's where the arguments will go. How much is too much tax is older than the English language.
The would constitute a very narrow reading of "bear arms," which would probably raise the question of does the government have a duty to ensure that people have cheap access to bullets, no matter how rare? There are many very old firearms for which the rounds simply aren't made anymore and would have to be custom ordered. Should the government subsidize said orders to ensure that those weapons can be brought to bear?
286 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:02pm |
287 | uncah91 Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:25pm |
re: #274 Pawn of the Oppressor
I like your idea of simply moving a broad type of rifle into a pre-existing category. That would work. I would be OK with a magazine capacity restriction, and there ought to be a national buy-back on both high-cap mags and handguns in general. The magazines could go right back into the supply line for the military or national guard.
Re-reading this list, I just realized it puts every semi-auto rifle in the same class as full auto guns. That seems pretty extreme to me.
288 | dragonath Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:26pm |
re: #262 William Barnett-Lewis
Illinois about two years back. Ontario & New Foundland have also had attacks. ISTR a young songwriter was killed in one of them. Thanks to climate change we're getting more coyote wolf hybrids and they are more likely to attack humans.
Yes, I remember that. I think that was in Nova Scotia.
291 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:06pm |
re: #289 Gus
Uh oh. Came back to the killing fields.
Do I look Cambodian to you? How is this the Killing Fields?
/Joe Pesci
292 | efuseakay Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:19pm |
re: #284 Dark_Falcon
Where on the North Shore?
By Glencoe/Northfield/Glenview etc.
We have a bigger problem with skunks... not attacking people, but spraying dogs. Sigh.
294 | Interesting Times Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:22pm |
re: #251 Dark_Falcon
I hear you, but near a building like that, especially one with two places to pass under its veranda (one of which is covered stairs), you could end up close to a coyote without realizing it (I know that particular spot pretty well, so I'm describing things you can't see in the photo). That photo gave me something of a fright.
Yet you mock people who, in the aftermath of 20 children having bullets put through them, are concerned about certain types of guns.
Where's the projection gif when I need it? 9_9
296 | b_sharp Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:42:15pm |
re: #288 dragonath
Yes, I remember that. I think that was in Nova Scotia.
I just checked, it was Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
297 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:42:30pm |
re: #292 efuseakay
By Glencoe/Northfield/Glenview etc.
We have a bigger problem with skunks... not attacking people, but spraying dogs. Sigh.
Skunk problems stink.
298 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:44:19pm |
And the 49er's go right back on top, 38-31.
299 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:44:33pm |
re: #285 Targetpractice
The would constitute a very narrow reading of "bear arms," which would probably raise the question of does the government have a duty to ensure that people have cheap access to bullets, no matter how rare? There are many very old firearms for which the rounds simply aren't made anymore and would have to be custom ordered. Should the government subsidize said orders to ensure that those weapons can be brought to bear?
For some one as near broke as me, it wouldn't take much of a tax for it to become a defacto ban on me shooting factory ammunition.
Not to mention what bits are taxed - Only factory made bullets? Then with my reloading press & bullet molds I'm no different than I am today.
The problem is, always, where do you draw the line? The current court will not draw it some want and another court will not draw it where others want.
300 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:45:04pm |
re: #298 Dark_Falcon
And the 49er's go right back on top, 38-31.
Resisting urge to taunt Pat fan friends on facebook. Resisting urge.
301 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:45:30pm |
re: #300 HappyWarrior
Resisting urge to taunt Pat fan friends on facebook. Resisting urge.
Resist it. This game ain't over.
302 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:46:04pm |
re: #301 Dark_Falcon
Resist it. This game ain't over.
I am and the fact I don't trash talk either is playing a role here. Plus I've got nothing to back it up.
303 | Interesting Times Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:47:17pm |
304 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:47:17pm |
Sorry about the coyote diversion, folks. I'd been wanting to post that pic all day, and tried to work it into the topic. I wasn't trying to BS you guys, I really wasn't.
305 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:47:33pm |
My first wife once declared war on coyotes. I think the coyotes won.
306 | Pawn of the Oppressor Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:50:20pm |
re: #287 uncah91
Re-reading this list, I just realized it puts every semi-auto rifle in the same class as full auto guns. That seems pretty extreme to me.
Well, that class involves a $200 tax stamp, paperwork, registration and permanent marking of the gun, storage and transport requirements, and a sign-off by your local chief LEO, in addition to the usual background check. The downside would be that some local chiefs are just plain anti-gun, period, and won't sign off on allowing otherwise qualified, law-abiding people to pass the requirements. Maybe the engraving rules could be relaxed, too, since that's a pain in the butt.
Registration doesn't really do anything preventative anyway, that's always an after-the-fact discovery, like tracking the VIN on a getaway car. It's the ownership threshold and the more thorough background vetting that would be key.
I think also that a mental health referral from an educational institution ought to disqualify you from passing the background check. In a perfect world, teenagers with mental health issues would also be on official radar somewhere, and their parents, acquaintances, and friends would be advised to have any guns thoroughly secured (or not have any at all).
This perfect world also assumes that the ones making the pass/no pass decisions are qualified, trained people with good judgment, which is a fantasy in our current political climate.
307 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:52:51pm |
re: #306 Pawn of the Oppressor
...In a perfect world,
teenagersRepresentatives with mental health issues would also be on official radar somewhere...
“It ensures against the tyranny of the government if they know that the biggest army is the American people, then you don’t have the tyranny
that came from King George.”
-- Rep. Louie Gohmert
308 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:54:02pm |
re: #299 William Barnett-Lewis
For some one as near broke as me, it wouldn't take much of a tax for it to become a defacto ban on me shooting factory ammunition.
Not to mention what bits are taxed - Only factory made bullets? Then with my reloading press & bullet molds I'm no different than I am today.
The problem is, always, where do you draw the line? The current court will not draw it some want and another court will not draw it where others want.
I said "narrow" when really I should have said "broad," because that would be called for in order to argue that owning a gun means one should have easy access to bullets for that gun. The argument that a bullet tax would be like a tax on paper would raise the question as to whether or not freedom of the press means the common man has an explicit right to a printing press.
309 | stabby Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:54:10pm |
Someone explain to me why the right is so hung up on the second amendment and talking about its use to oppose the government.
I can understand people who are actually doing something illegal wanting to be armed enough to give the cops some reason to avoid a confrontation over something small. If you're a drug dealer or a pimp or a pot grower maybe you want a bunch of scary guns to shoot at the cops when they show up. So maybe I understand the non-religious Libertarians "drugs and prostitution and underage sex should be legal" crowd talking about taking on the the government. But the Republican base? Over what? I don't get it.
310 | dragonath Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:54:20pm |
re: #305 Shiplord Kirel
My first wife once declared war on coyotes. I think the coyotes won.
Feathers and various giblets were scattered over a large part of the backyard. The other chickens, the deceased rooster's presumed relatives, were standing around pecking at the remains, thereby affirming my already thorough contempt for their species.
lol
311 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:55:19pm |
Topeka police say two of their officers were fatally shot responding to suspicious vehicle near grocery store: apne.ws/Yarbcg
— The Associated Press (@AP) December 17, 2012
312 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:55:20pm |
re: #309 stabby
Someone explain to me why the right is so hung up on the second amendment and talking about it's use to oppose the government.
I can understand people who are actually doing something illegal wanting to be armed enough to give the cops some reason to avoid a confrontation over something small. If you're a drug dealer or a pimp or a pot grower maybe you want a bunch of scary guns to shoot at the cops when they show up. So maybe I understand the non-religious Libertarians "drugs and prostitution and underage sex should be legal" crowd talking about taking on the the government. But the Republican base? Over what? I don't get it.
I think a lot of them have this fantasy of the federal government turning into this oppressive authoritarian regime. I dunno. What I resent though is their historical revisionism.
313 | dragonath Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:00:44pm |
re: #309 stabby
Someone explain to me why the right is so hung up on the second amendment and talking about it's use to oppose the government.
Because it's the only real issue they have left with the working poor. The NRA frames it as a struggle against effete liberals and violent criminals.
314 | Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:01:15pm |
Ten updings for anyone who can name the man who shot 10 Amish schoolgirls 6 years ago. No looking it up.
At the very most we will see renewal of a weakened Assault Weapons Ban.
315 | Mattand Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:04:04pm |
re: #305 Shiplord Kirel
My first wife once declared war on coyotes. I think the coyotes won.
Do you write professionally? That was a riot.
316 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:04:04pm |
re: #314 Decatur Deb
Ten updings for anyone who can name the man who shot 10 Amish schoolgirls 6 years ago. No looking it up.
At the very most we will see renewal of a weakened Assault Weapons Ban.
Not going to happen. Smart idea for John Boehner: Figure out some way to extend NICS to all sales of firearms at gun shows. Knock out the so-called 'gun-show loophole', which i believe could be done in a way the was not overly burdensome.
317 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:05:22pm |
Read it.
Some seriously fucked up shit described in this article nytimes.com/2012/12/17/nyr…
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) December 17, 2012
318 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:06:08pm |
re: #316 Dark_Falcon
Not going to happen. Smart idea for John Boehner: Figure out some way to extend NICS to all sales of firearms at gun shows. Knock out the so-called 'gun-show loophole', which i believe could be done in a way the was not overly burdensome.
Yeah. Don't want to inconvenience people or anything.
319 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:08:45pm |
re: #318 Four More Tears
Yeah. Don't want to inconvenience people or anything.
Don't want to get Wayne LaPierre's feelings hurt. Sorry but I could careless about accommodating the gunowners organizations right now. When the fucking head of the NRA is repeatedly pandering to the paranoid mindset. I have no love for that organization.
320 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:10:01pm |
re: #318 Four More Tears
Yeah. Don't want to inconvenience people or anything.
It's not wrong to want to keep your verification system from becoming a serious hassle. I'm not talking about compromising safety here.
321 | stabby Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:10:13pm |
re: #313 dragonath
Because it's the only real issue they have left with the working poor. The NRA frames it as a struggle against effete liberals and violent criminals.
Heh, it's the only issue they have left that appeals to criminals, except perhaps keeping drugs illegal and thus expensive.
322 | Obdicut Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:06pm |
re: #317 Four More Tears
what the fuck.
"Teach kids to hunt, you will never have to hunt your kids.”
Who are these people.
323 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:08pm |
You know, the gun owners groups repatedly accuse gun control supporters of "not understanding their way of life." Well I would suggest that they do the same. It's very easy to be cavailer about guns when you're from an area that averages one homicide or maybe zero a year. Many of these gun control advocates come from parts of the country that have seen a lot of gun related homicides. You can disagree with them but I understand where they're coming from.
324 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:48pm |
re: #322 Obdicut
what the fuck.
Who are these people.
The same people who believe we're free because of guns.
325 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:59pm |
re: #317 Four More Tears
Read it.
[Embedded content]
“Guns are why we’re free in this country, and people lose sight of that when tragedies like this happen,” he said. “A gun didn’t kill all those children, a disturbed man killed all those children.”
Yes, he killed them with a gun that, in any sane world, would be restricted solely to military personnel.
326 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:13:54pm |
"Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yeah but a gun sure will take more lives in a quicker span than a fist or knife."
327 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:14:11pm |
re: #322 Obdicut
That Mr. Flaxon POS needs be interviewed.
My style, preferably.
And then that dumbfuck at the bottom talking about "Good Ole Boys"
That dumb hick needs to go back to West Virginia.
328 | Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:14:27pm |
re: #325 Targetpractice
Yes, he killed them with a gun that, in any sane world, would be restricted solely to military personnel.
Was it clarified that the rifle was used? Early reports said he used the handguns. (All reporting of this pretty much sucks.)
329 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:14:55pm |
re: #324 HappyWarrior
We are free because 1/2 of Europe intervened, and the other half threatened to.
330 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:15:10pm |
Just to clarify. I'm not anti gun but the attitude that some gun owners have about guns greatly annoys me. It's a machine designed to end lives. Can we at least be honest about that here? So, no, it's not like a car which sole purpose is transportation. A gun's purpose is to end another life whether that life is an animal or another person.
331 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:15:14pm |
re: #323 HappyWarrior
You know, the gun owners groups repatedly accuse gun control supporters of "not understanding their way of life." Well I would suggest that they do the same. It's very easy to be cavailer about guns when you're from an area that averages one homicide or maybe zero a year. Many of these gun control advocates come from parts of the country that have seen a lot of gun related homicides. You can disagree with them but I understand where they're coming from.
Historically the issue has always been urban vs. rural, not left/right or Democratic/Republican. Urban folks with their situation have always wanted stronger restrictions on guns than folks who live out in the woods & fields. Population density has a profound way of shaping many facets of our nation.
332 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:15:18pm |
re: #328 Decatur Deb
Was it clarified that the rifle was used? Early reports said he used the handguns. (All reporting of this pretty much sucks.)
Medical examiner said the only wounds he's seen in the bodies came from .223 rounds, 3-11 rounds apiece.
333 | jaunte Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:16:10pm |
re: #317 Four More Tears
Gun enthusiasts here, as elsewhere in the country, have taken to loading their targets with an explosive called Tannerite, which detonates when bullets strike it, sending shock waves afield. A mixture of ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder, Tannerite is legal in Connecticut, but safety concerns led Maryland this year to ban it.
....
“I’ve hunted for many years, but the police department was getting complaints of shooting in the morning, in the evening, and of people shooting at propane gas tanks just to see them explode,” Mr. Faxon said.
These people are obviously excited about the Constitution's loud parts.
334 | Four More Tears Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:16:39pm |
re: #330 HappyWarrior
Just to clarify. I'm not anti gun but the attitude that some gun owners have about guns greatly annoys me. It's a machine designed to end lives. Can we at least be honest about that here? So, no, it's not like a car which sole purpose is transportation. A gun's purpose is to end another life whether that life is an animal or another person.
No. It's just a hobby. Like building train sets or something...
335 | A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:16:40pm |
re: #326 HappyWarrior
"Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yeah but a gun sure will take more lives in a quicker span than a fist or knife."
People with guns kill people
337 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:17:37pm |
re: #331 William Barnett-Lewis
Historically the issue has always been urban vs. rural, not left/right or Democratic/Republican. Urban folks with their situation have always wanted stronger restrictions on guns than folks who live out in the woods & fields. Population density has a profound way of shaping many facets of our nation.
Yeah and I understand that. I just think some rural folks don't understand why someone from a city that averages 100+ deaths a year due to gun violence isn't going to exactly fall in love with guns. My grandfather hunted and so did my uncle. And I understand why people would want to be able to protect themselves but I don't and will never understand the disdain directed at people who don't like guns. I'm not saying all gunowners are like this for what it's worth. Just a vocal minority who seem to think that anyone who doesn't own a gun must some kind of pussy.
338 | Targetpractice Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:17:46pm |
re: #330 HappyWarrior
Just to clarify. I'm not anti gun but the attitude that some gun owners have about guns greatly annoys me. It's a machine designed to end lives. Can we at least be honest about that here? So, no, it's not like a car which sole purpose is transportation. A gun's purpose is to end another life whether that life is an animal or another person.
A car is the least stupid of the comparisons I've heard. Apparently the new thing in vogue is to argue that swimming pools kill more kids a year than guns.
339 | efuseakay Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:17:54pm |
re: #311 Four More Tears
If only they were armed. They could have protected themselves.
340 | stabby Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:19:20pm |
I was looking up the Laurie Anderson's song "It's not the bullet (that kills you) it's the hole".
Unfortunately it turns out the be a very early song that's actually unlistenable.
341 | BongCrodny Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:19:42pm |
re: #327 ProMayaLiberal
That Mr. Flaxon POS needs be interviewed.
My style, preferably.
And then that dumbfuck at the bottom talking about "Good Ole Boys"
That dumb hick needs to go back to West Virginia.
Actually, Faxon seems like one of the voices of sanity in the debate:
Mr. Faxon, the police commission member, who is a lawyer, said he wrote the new ordinance, which would have imposed additional constraints on shooting, including limited hours, and a requirement that any target shooting range, and the firearms that would be used there, be approved by the chief of police to make sure they were safe.
342 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:21:50pm |
re: #333 jaunte
From the National Shooting Sports Federation website:
NSSF Statement On Newtown Tragedy
Dec. 14, 2012Our hearts go out to the families of the victims of this horrible tragedy in our community.
Out of respect for the families, the community and the ongoing police investigation, it would be inappropriate to comment or participate in media requests at this time.
Bunch of mealy-mouthed fucking cowards.
No, NSSF you should respond. We should be allowed to yell at you and mercilessly bash your organization for going against common sense and common safety.
They need come out and take it like adults, not the whiny, petulant teenagers they are.
343 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:24:12pm |
Good night folks. It's good to see real discussion - constructive thoughts about what might be politically and legal possible within our nations context - rather than continuing the knee jerk responses to other knee jerk responses. I don't know what, if anything will come out of all of this and I do believe we have to strengthen the president's position in congress - by voting out as many radical Representatives as possible in 2014 - before any real change can happen. I pray it can, in fact, happen.
344 | ProMayaLiberal Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:24:16pm |
re: #341 BongCrodny
Think you are right, and think there is a typo.
Still head of the NSSF needs to be yelled at.
345 | HappyWarrior Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:28:47pm |
re: #344 ProMayaLiberal
Think you are right, and think there is a typo.
Still head of the NSSF needs to be yelled at.
Be nice if someone told Wayne LaPierre to fuck off too. That guy deserves a lot of shit for being responsible for provoking paranoid bullshit. Of course, he lives in a safe neighborhood and doesn't have to worry about a damn thing but he'll scare the poor bastards that make up his organization's rank and file just fine because it gets him more money.
346 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:35:52pm |
re: #315 Mattand
Do you write professionally? That was a riot.
I do from to time to time, mostly science fiction but some non-fiction about aviation and military history.
347 | wheat-dogghazi Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:39:25pm |
re: #307 jaunte
“It ensures against the tyranny of the government if they know that the biggest army is the American people, then you don’t have the tyranny
that came from King George.”
-- Rep. Louie Gohmert
King George's "tyranny" was taxing the colonists and expecting them to pay up, then ignoring their pleas for representation in Parliament, then sending a few troops to quell the insurrection. Didn't turn out so well for the Redcoats, as I recall.
Gohmer(t) is missing one important point: the government usually has bigger guns.
348 | Shiplord Kirel Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:53:36pm |
re: #287 uncah91
Re-reading this list, I just realized it puts every semi-auto rifle in the same class as full auto guns. That seems pretty extreme to me.
Basically that's right, but I suggested creating a less restrictive sub-category. Registration and a more stringent process of owner vetting are the key requirements. I also like Dark's idea of waiving local law enforcement approval. I never have liked the idea of a local yokel, who might be three kinds of corrupt or stupid, having veto power over what is basically a federal issue. In some parts of the country, otoh, a sheriff who routinely vetoed otherwise acceptable class 3 applications would probably not be in office long.
349 | stabby Sun, Dec 16, 2012 11:03:48pm |
You know, that right wing idea, that the government not having a monopoly on the use of force is a bulwark against tyranny is called a "failed state" in the rest of the world.
And it's what makes Somalia a hell hole
and what makes Southern Lebanon a hell hole run by Hezbollah and Iran where the police and army can't go
and what makes the tribal areas of Pakistan a hell hole
and what makes Afghanistan a hell hole
If the right wingers ever got their dream of having powerful militias that can hold back the government, then what we'd have is anarchy and a failed state.
350 | Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:33:41am |
re: #154 Kragar
Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.
I've been with thousands of men
Again and again
They promise the moon!
They're always coming and going
And going and coming
And always too soon!