Acts, Omissions, and What We Actually Know About the Ferguson PD and Mike Brown Case

There’s a whole lot to sort through, and much of it isn’t good
Crime • Views: 25,941

Michael Brown is dead. This much we know. How and why he died at the hands of a Ferguson police officer, now identified as 6 year veteran of the force Darren Wilson, is still unclear.

The Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson released some records “relating” to the case, but they primarily relate to an incident earlier in the day. The incident occurred at Ferguson Market and Liquor on West Florissant Avenue where they allege Brown and another man, Dorian Johnson, appeared to have stolen Swishers (packages of tobacco products). The location is some distance from where the fatal encounter occurred.

There are lots of discrepancies in the time line and facts proffered by the Ferguson PD. Where are the packages of Swishers that were allegedly stolen? If they weren’t on Brown, were they in Johnson’s possession (the friend who witnessed events)? The Department’s own statements say that Johnson isn’t a suspect and wont be charged, so that undermines the perception that Johnson was an accomplice of some kind of criminal act at the store.

As the STL Post Dispatch reports, the Ferguson Police Department isn’t charging Johnson:

In an interview with MSNBC shortly after the report was released, Johnson’s lawyer also said that Brown had taken cigars from the store.

“We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” the attorney, Freeman Bosley, told MSNBC. “We need to see that tape. My client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that he did take cigarillos, he told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”

Asked whether Dorian Johnson will be charged, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said today, “No. We determined he didn’t steal anything or use force.”

So, if the report claims that Brown handed something to Johnson, and Brown didn’t pay for it, then that would be a larceny, with Johnson the accomplice for receiving the property that didn’t belong to him. But they’re not charging him? In other words, the police report contains sufficient discrepancies that would undermine even the robbery claims against Brown.

But we again have to wonder why this police report was provided in lieu of any actual information about the Brown shooting. This response only adds to the confusion especially since Chief Jackson was busy claiming that the stop had nothing to do with any other criminal activities.

So, why now is the Ferguson PD appearing to “retcon” events to attempt to justify the shooting, by providing these details on an event that they’ve repeatedly asserted had nothing to do with why Officer Wilson shot Brown? It reeks of character assassination.

There are many questions remaining, including many that no one will ever be able to ask Brown, since he is now deceased:

  • Why would/did Brown reach into the vehicle to grab a gun as the police allege?
  • Why did the officer fire after Brown was already down and bleeding out?
  • And why did the Ferguson PD not signal that there was a convenience store robbery and that Brown was a suspect before today?

Until this morning, the Department claimed that Brown was not a suspect in any other police activity. Now, via the police reports released to the public (but not to the highway patrol prior to this morning’s presser) they’re claiming he was the prime suspect in a convenience story petit larceny (which they’re calling a strong arm robbery of an amount that appears to be under $100 at that) but his friend who was with him at this time isn’t being charged.

The Department isn’t even trying to claim that the fatal stop was initiated because of a suspected robbery, which would have at least been a justifiable reason for the stop. Instead, the Department claimed only that the officer made a stop unrelated to any other incident because the duo were walking in the street.

So, for the moment we’ve got a questionable timeline, a police report that appears to have been a second version of events at the convenience store, and still omits key details from the day of the shooting and details regarding the actual shooting.

If you’re as confused about all this as I am, you’re not alone. The information being provided just doesn’t add up.

Note that I haven’t even begun to address the excessive force aspects.

Brown was shot multiple times, but the police haven’t revealed any further details to that end. Witnesses have indicated that there were multiple shots fired, including several that were after Brown was already bleeding and dying on the ground. This video, made of a witness to the events of the shooting, makes it clear that the officer went beyond merely engaging in self-defense by firing at Brown when he was already with his hands up and even after he was laying down on the ground after being hit by a fusillade of bullets (NSFW language warning).

Youtube Video

Like much else that has come out of the Department, take any claims they make about Brown with a grain of salt. They have an institutional need to protect their own, and that includes denigrating Brown by linking him to a crime, even though the Department had indicated the stop was not made pursuant to any criminal acts.

Among the many problems with the Ferguson police, it would appear they’re policing based on skin color. Racial profiling, which goes back to statistics compiled by the Missouri Attorney General’s office shows that blacks are disproportionately stopped by Ferguson PD, even though whites have a higher contraband hit rate. And the rate of stops increases dramatically the further you get away from the interstate highway and on to local roads. Ferguson is hardly alone in departments that use racial profiling, but their actions are now coming under increased scrutiny for ongoing and systematic profiling.

Moreover, there’s good reason to distrust what the Department puts out. The Day Ferguson cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie, highlights the malignant malfeasance at the Department, where they had no problem trumping up nonsensical charges against a wrongfully arrested individual whose only crime turned out to be having the same surname as a man with an outstanding warrant. Instead of releasing him, the Ferguson police beat the man, sending him to the hospital with lacerations and a concussion and then charged him 4 counts of property damage to their uniforms because he refused to bunk in an already occupied one-person cell.

In a court case stemming from that, the officers claimed that the events did and didn’t happen (engaging in either perjury or fraud, or both). This particular case is on appeal after the court found that the perjury was de minimis (which is laughable to begin with because there’s no such thing - the man’s rights and injuries were sufficient for damages to be awarded). The outcome of the appeal is likely to be influenced by the ongoing Brown case, but it also informs on just how stacked against justice the system is in Missouri and Ferguson specifically. This is far from an isolated case as well.

The Department claims that Officer Wilson had a clean record, but it’s clear that the Department didn’t maintain any semblance of records worth the paper they’re written on excessive force for years before 2010; in fact, the officers themselves would write themselves up and no records were kept with the officer’s personnel file. So we only can assume that the last four years have been incident free (if that’s indeed the case). In other words, the problems with the Department run deep and hard. It’s a Department in serious trouble and they’re still operating in a fashion that requires serious reform.

And this brings me back to the excessive force used in not only the Brown case, but the subsequent policing of Ferguson in the wake of the shooting.

It was inexcusable for the Ferguson Police Department, let alone the St. Louis County Police to use the civil protests as an excuse to break out armored vehicles and heavily armed shock troops to intimidate a populace already reeling from the death of one of their own. Not only did the county police use officers in body armor, but they purposefully aimed loaded weapons at civil protesters and engaged in intimidation of journalists and the public. They unlawfully detained journalists who were in a McDonalds doing nothing more than their jobs of reporting on events in town.

It would come as no surprise that once the county police were called in that the protests became more violent. And the violence begat more violence. That’s why Gov. Jay Nixon belatedly called on the highway patrol to assume control over the situation. And despite the prosecutor in charge of the case arguing that the governor unlawfully interfered (and which itself shows the deep bias here), that one move defused the tensions more than anything else over the past week. The governor deescalated the situation by removing the police force that had initiated events with heavy-handed tactics.

So, this is where we’re at. The investigation into Brown’s death continues with a paucity of information all while engaging in character assassination of Brown through what the family considers piece-meal bits of information to justify their actions. Investigations should be opened into excessive force by the Ferguson police department and the St. Louis County police department for their actions before, during, and after the shooting.

This situation highlights the need for police departments to review all of their procedures regarding officer-involved shootings and excessive force cases. Departments should be more forthcoming about the details to the public, including a policy identifying the officers involved in a timely fashion. We cannot and should not accept departments hiding behind the Blue Line of silence when one of their own engages in wrong-doing.

It’s a more difficult question as who should investigate the cops who are involved in these situations. Not every department is large enough to have an internal affairs division or there’s not enough transparency to allow that self-investigation to occur. So, states and localities have to figure out a consistent method to handle these cases. It may mean that any case involving an officer-involved death automatically gets handled by the State Police (or if the state police is the agency involved, another designated agency within the jurisdiction). Prosecutors would come from the state AG office to handle.

But the process must be transparent. It’s the least we should expect and demand of law enforcement. They do a tremendously difficult job and the methodology of treating these cases shouldn’t be done on an ad hoc basis either. They deserve to know exactly how every single case will be handled.

It also minimizes the politicization of the cases by prosecutors, law enforcement, and politicians (and in some cases, there’s overlap since some law enforcement and legal positions are elected like county sheriffs, some prosecutors, attorneys general, etc.)

These are sensible measures, and states and localities should work to do this as soon as possible. It shouldn’t take deaths, protests, and riots, to focus attention on this longstanding problem. And we don’t even know the true scope of the problem since there’s no uniform statistics to count on. We need states and localities to require reporting all excessive force cases, along with statistics about officer-involved shootings and deaths while in police custody. The statistics can include details about those deaths occurring where the deceased had weapons in possession, were in the midst of committing crimes, etc., to separate those that are legitimate use of force incidents from those that appear to be excessive force instances (as appears to be the case in Ferguson).

But I get the sense that as the situation settles down in Ferguson, all too many will lose attention on this and the status quo will persist.

UPDATE at 8/15/14 11:48:39 am by lawhawk

If anyone finds any of the information I posted incorrect or out of date, please post in the comments and I’ll correct. I tried to be as comprehensive as possible, but there’s so much information out there, some of it contradictory, that it was hard to try and develop a coherent narrative.

UPDATE at 8/15/14 12:30:25 pm by lawhawk

USA Today reporters went to try and interview Wilson, and found that he left town with his family.

The optics of that looks, well, not good. This is yet another sign of a police department that is in way over its head, and whose bad practices are being exposed to a greater degree with each passing hour.

Why wasn’t he told to stick around and that if the media come calling, for him to funnel everything through a lawyer (you have to assume he’s had time to go get one). He can’t and shouldn’t make statements, but the media will come a calling and he should be prepared for the fallout with a prepared statement that he is under investigation, the investigation will proceed, and he’s cooperating with the authorities, prosecutors, etc., and that he is sorry for the unfortunate death. Skipping town just looks bad.

This is PR101, but apparently no one involved with the FPD knows the first thing about crisis and damage control.

UPDATE at 8/15/14 1:04:12 pm by lawhawk


A clarification on which police force is conducting the investigation into the Brown death. It is the St. Louis County Police Department. The same one that heightened tensions with their inane display of weaponry and battle gear until they were called off by Gov. Nixon. The same County Police just won a suit against them for excessive force where a mentally ill man was subdued with a taser but died of cardiac arrest.

His mother had phoned 911, after Mr. De Boise, who was schizophrenic, demanded that she worship him, claiming he was God, and pressed her head down to the floor, according to court documents. Mr. De Boise kicked and swung his arms at the officers as they tried to subdue him.

“No reasonable officer, observing De Boise’s behavior, would have understood the actions taken to be so disproportionate and unnecessary as to amount to a violation of De Boise’s rights,” wrote Judge Bobby E. Shepherd of the Eighth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the 2-1 majority.

“We’re pleased to have the court recognize that no reasonable officer would have thought after seeing the defendant that it was disproportionate or unnecessary to tase him,” said St. Louis County Counselor Patricia Redington. “We thought it was a good decision and a very sad case.”

The Eighth Circuit had previously held that “non-violent, non-fleeing” suspects have a clearly established right to be free from the use of Tasers.

Mr. De Boise’s family, including his two children, sued the officers in May 2010 for wrongful death, alleging they used excessive force. The officers “failed to simply hold Samuel down and handcuff him, particularly in light of the fact that he was naked and obviously delusional,” the lawsuit said.

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244 comments
1 Randall Gross  Aug 15, 2014 11:03:46am

Some great analysis here LH, thanks.

2 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 15, 2014 11:04:34am
statistics compiled by the Missouri Attorney General’s office shows that blacks are disproportionately stopped by Ferguson PD, even though whites have a higher contraband hit rate.

This is probably because blacks are stopped by PD just for being black, but whites are never stopped unless there is probable cause.

3 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 15, 2014 11:05:03am

I was just about to recommend that this should be promoted and there it was!

4 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:07:15am

Chief Jackson is coming up for a second presser today.
Guess he needs to “fix” his mis-speaks from this morning.

5 klys  Aug 15, 2014 11:07:21am

I wonder how much spite was involved in the release today towards the folks who actually made a difference in how the protests went yesterday.

The lead state law enforcement officer in charge of security in Ferguson said he “would have liked to have been consulted” this morning regarding the release of information implicating Brown in the robbery.

Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ronald S. Johnson spoke during a press conference with Gov. Jay Nixon at the command control center at the Northland Shopping Center on West Florissant Avenue. Nixon also said he did not know the robbery information was going to be released this morning.

Source.

6 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:07:22am
The information being provided just doesn’t add up.

I get the impression the local police are still trying to shape this story on their own, and haven’t bothered to get legal advice that would make their version more coherent.

7 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 11:07:49am

re: #2 Pie-onist Overlord

This is probably because blacks are stopped by PD just for being black, but whites are never stopped unless there is probable cause.

Black is Plausible Cause. It’s in the Constitution.

8 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:08:06am

So Johnson was with Brown at the alleged “robbery” and witness to the alleged “struggle,” but at no time did the FPD try to stop him from leaving the scene or attempt to bring him in for questioning until announcing today that he’s not going to be charged. Hell, just the other day, they stated that the only reason they hadn’t even interviewed him about the shooting is because they couldn’t get a hold of him.

Sounds more and more like they’re trying to write him out of the story.

9 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:08:33am

Shouldn’t Dorian Johnson be under arrest, or questioned?

10 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 11:09:29am

This is the same police department that didn’t interview witnesses earlier because they were afraid it would “influence” the investigation.

11 CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2014 11:10:10am

re: #1 Randall Gross

Some great analysis here LH, thanks.

Seconded. Great post, LH!

12 Dr Lizardo  Aug 15, 2014 11:10:48am

Great post, LH.

13 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 11:10:48am

re: #10 Kragar

This is the same police department that didn’t interview witnesses earlier because they were afraid it would “influence” the investigation.

Witnesses clutter up the scenario.

14 Franklin  Aug 15, 2014 11:12:54am
15 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Aug 15, 2014 11:13:16am

Great post. I thought the whole thing stunk when I heard the presser this morning and with it all laid out it stinks even more.

16 TedStriker  Aug 15, 2014 11:13:30am

Frankly, I question the Ferguson PC’s timing on all of this.

17 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:14:10am

Not ready to don a tinfoil hat yet, but I’m wondering how many Darren Wilsons are in that particular area who are police.
This Darren Wilson works for St. Louis PD (the city PD, not the county, and not Ferguson PD) and is president of the Ethical Society of Police.

18 klys  Aug 15, 2014 11:15:30am

re: #10 Kragar

This is the same police department that didn’t interview witnesses earlier because they were afraid it would “influence” the investigation.

Just to note, the Ferguson PD is not running the investigation into the shooting. They have a pretty clear conflict of interest. The chief said in one of the previous news conferences that the investigation had been turned over to St. Louis County PD before he got to the scene.

I grant you, none of what we’ve seen of St. Louis County PD shows that they’re going to come out of this smelling like roses either.

Ferguson PD would have been interested in following up with Johnson regarding the robbery, however, you would think.

19 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:15:56am

Libertarians ruin everything.

20 Franklin  Aug 15, 2014 11:15:58am

Early OT, but another funny break:

21 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 11:17:08am

re: #17 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not ready to don a tinfoil hat yet, but I’m wondering how many Darren Wilsons are in that particular area who are police.
This Darren Wilson works for St. Louis PD (the city PD, not the county, and not Ferguson PD) and is president of the Ethical Society of Police.

Sounds like a desk job:

Sgt. Wilson is also one of the original members to the re-defined, expanded Audit/Advisory Unit, where he is currently assigned.

22 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:18:14am

re: #21 Decatur Deb

Sounds like a desk job:

Sgt. Wilson is also one of the original members to the re-defined, expanded Audit/Advisory Unit, where he is currently assigned.

Yes, St. Louis PD Darren Wilson’s name popped up this morning and I thought “WTH? Can’t be the same guy.”

23 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 11:18:39am
Not only did the county police use officers in body armor, but they purposefully aimed loaded weapons at civil protesters and engaged in intimidation of journalists and the public. They unlawfully detained journalists who were in a McDonalds doing nothing more than their jobs of reporting on events in town.

This is a couple of years old, but will never be irrelevant:

24 Stanley Sea  Aug 15, 2014 11:20:19am

re: #17 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not ready to don a tinfoil hat yet, but I’m wondering how many Darren Wilsons are in that particular area who are police.
This Darren Wilson works for St. Louis PD (the city PD, not the county, and not Ferguson PD) and is president of the Ethical Society of Police.

Twitter told me that the Ethical Society cop isn’t the one.

25 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:21:00am
26 Shvaughn  Aug 15, 2014 11:21:44am

What is NMOS14?

27 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 11:21:58am

I heard there was a claim about the journalists in McDonald’s having been asked to leave by the manager, and the manager called the cops to get them to leave. Anybody know where that claim might have originated?

28 Franklin  Aug 15, 2014 11:22:27am

re: #26 Shvaughn

What is NMOS14?

National Moment of Silence 2014.

29 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:22:28am

“One side shot and killed an unarmed man. The other might have stolen smokes. Both are bad.”

The FPD position is incredibly weak.

30 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:22:31am

re: #26 Shvaughn

National Moment of Silence 2014

31 Shvaughn  Aug 15, 2014 11:22:50am

re: #27 wrenchwench

Jim Hoft’s site?

32 Franklin  Aug 15, 2014 11:23:00am

re: #27 wrenchwench

I heard there was a claim about the journalists in McDonald’s having been asked to leave by the manager, and the manager called the cops to get them to leave. Anybody know where that claim might have originated?

FPD?

Seriously though, that is the first I’ve heard of it.

33 Kilroy01  Aug 15, 2014 11:24:00am

Oh no.. Am I sensing the magical balance fairy coming?

Stealing and Shooting gunning down a 18 year old (even though he had no idea he stolen anything) are equal somehow?

34 urbanmeemaw  Aug 15, 2014 11:24:06am

Excellent post, Lawhawk.

I’m rather confused about the process regarding which agency is actually conducting/managing the investigation and who will be communicating status to the public. I realize citizens needed to hear the name of the policeman and the police’s report, but I was hoping all of this would have been verified and vetted before being communicated. I don’t think anyone trusts the Ferguson police and their “report” is causing too much confusion.

35 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 11:24:22am

re: #31 Shvaughn

Jim Hoft’s site?

re: #32 Franklin Brewsevelt

FPD?

Seriously though, that is the first I’ve heard of it.

Hoping for a link. Or a suggestion for search terms….

36 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:24:32am

re: #29 jaunte

“One side shot and killed an unarmed man. The other might have stolen smokes. Both are bad.”

The FPD position is incredibly weak.

Even more so when you consider the FPD repeatedly states that the FPD officer (Wilson) didn’t stop Brown and Johnson in relation to any crime. And by the time the FPD thought to link the two, they didn’t bother to interview Johnson, who was a witness to the shooting, and a potential accomplice in the theft. Yet, they’re able to exonerate Johnson of wrongdoing and aren’t charging him with a crime.

37 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:24:53am

re: #33 Kilroy01

The officer’s wrist might have been injured by recoil.

38 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 11:25:17am

re: #35 wrenchwench

Hoping for a link. Or a suggestion for search terms….

Unhappy Meal.

39 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:26:30am

re: #27 wrenchwench

I heard there was a claim about the journalists in McDonald’s having been asked to leave by the manager, and the manager called the cops to get them to leave. Anybody know where that claim might have originated?

Guess the manager forgot to be outraged:

40 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:27:32am

Sorry, but this is sounding way too much like Trayvon Martin all over again. I think we all remember when the press suddenly got a hold of reports that Martin had attacked a bus driver and gotten caught with jewelry and a screwdriver in his back pocket, convenient “evidence” to support Zimmerman’s allegations that Martin looked like he was “casing” houses in the neighborhood.

41 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:28:01am

re: #34 urbanmeemaw

There’s plenty of confusing bits about the case, who’s doing the investigation, what role the FPD plays, the role of the STL county police, and other law enforcement agencies.

I can only recall that the FPD isn’t the lead investigating agency on the Brown shooting and that other agencies are doing that. I do believe it’s the county police that are leading the investigation, but that’s troublesome for the reasons I alluded to above - culture of violence, responding to the peaceful protests by sending in shock troops, etc.

42 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 11:29:30am

re: #41 lawhawk

There’s plenty of confusing bits about the case, who’s doing the investigation, what role the FPD plays, the role of the STL county police, and other law enforcement agencies.

I can only recall that the FPD isn’t the lead investigating agency on the Brown shooting and that other agencies are doing that. I do believe it’s the county police that are leading the investigation, but that’s troublesome for the reasons I alluded to above - culture of violence, responding to the peaceful protests by sending in shock troops, etc.

And all with the independent DoJ Civil Rights investigation.

43 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 11:30:25am

I don’t know what the subject of this is, but it is funny on its own:

Oh, it’s about Politico.

44 Franklin  Aug 15, 2014 11:31:00am

Don Lemon has Meme’d himself:

45 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 15, 2014 11:32:37am

re: #36 lawhawk

Even more so when you consider the FPD repeatedly states that the FPD officer (Wilson) didn’t stop Brown and Johnson in relation to any crime. And by the time the FPD thought to link the two, they didn’t bother to interview Johnson, who was a witness to the shooting, and a potential accomplice in the theft. Yet, they’re able to exonerate Johnson of wrongdoing and aren’t charging him with a crime.

A detail to look for about the cop that fired-Unless he is left handed, grabbing the gun from the holster is a very difficult proposition if the cop is seated in the cruiser.

46 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 11:33:13am

re: #43 wrenchwench

I don’t know what the subject of this is, but it is funny on its own:

[Embedded content]

Oh, it’s about Politico.

The origin:

47 allegro  Aug 15, 2014 11:33:47am

re: #44 Franklin Brewsevelt

Don Lemon has Meme’d himself:

[Embedded content]

LOL Thought bubbles are next.

48 urbanmeemaw  Aug 15, 2014 11:34:27am

re: #41 lawhawk

Are there Federal or state laws which specify how, why and when the Federal Government agencies can move in and what they can and cannot do? I would feel so much better if DOJ/FBI started from scratch.

Another big problem is FPD’s incompetence and mismanagement. I wouldn’t trust them to organize a Red Rover game at the FOP picnic much less coordinate an investigation, even if their back sides weren’t on the line.

And thanks again for your knowledge and eloquence, Mr. Hawk.

49 stpaulbear  Aug 15, 2014 11:34:39am

re: #6 jaunte

I get the impression the local police are still trying to shape this story on their own, and haven’t bothered to get legal advice that would make their version more coherent.

Sounds like they’re getting all their legal advice from St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch, who St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley is trying to have removed from the case for obvious bias. McCulloch is the guy who got all bent out of shape that the Governor pulled the stormtroopers and put Johnson and the State Patrol in to do crowd control.

50 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:35:15am

re: #45 Rightwingconspirator

A detail to look for about the cop that fired-Unless he is left handed, grabbing the gun from the holster is a very difficult proposition if the cop is seated in the cruiser.

And that’s what’s got me scratching my head. We’re not talking a cop who was on-foot or leaving his vehicle when Brown allegedly initiated a struggle for the gun. He was in his vehicle, which means Brown had to reach in the vehicle and over the cop to grab his holstered gun. The only way that a struggle for the gun makes sense is if the cop had already unholstered it, but that would raise the question of why the cop felt he needed to have gun in hand to deal with Brown.

51 nines09  Aug 15, 2014 11:36:23am

re: #37 jaunte

The officer’s wrist might have been injured by recoil.

Hot shell casings hit him in the face and hurt him.

52 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 11:37:12am
53 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:37:57am

re: #50 Targetpractice

Let me see if I get this right.
If the gun was holstered on the officer’s left hip, then you’d have to grab straight down, and that would be blocked/obscured by the door itself. If the gun was holstered on the right hip, then you’d have to reach across the officer. In either instance, how would Brown know which way to go for the gun.

The only way this begins to make even the slightest bit of sense is if the gun was already unholstered, which doesn’t make sense if the FPD repeatedly states that Brown wasn’t stopped as a suspect.

Does that cover it?

54 nines09  Aug 15, 2014 11:39:53am

re: #53 lawhawk

Let me see if I get this right.
If the gun was holstered on the officer’s left hip, then you’d have to grab straight down, and that would be blocked/obscured by the door itself. If the gun was holstered on the right hip, then you’d have to reach across the officer. In either instance, how would Brown know which way to go for the gun.

The only way this begins to make even the slightest bit of sense is if the gun was already unholstered, which doesn’t make sense if the FPD repeatedly states that Brown wasn’t stopped as a suspect.

Does that cover it?

Yeah. It’s beginning to make sense. /

55 allegro  Aug 15, 2014 11:40:05am

re: #50 Targetpractice

And that’s what’s got me scratching my head. We’re not talking a cop who was on-foot or leaving his vehicle when Brown allegedly initiated a struggle for the gun. He was in his vehicle, which means Brown had to reach in the vehicle and over the cop to grab his holstered gun. The only way that a struggle for the gun makes sense is if the cop had already unholstered it, but that would raise the question of why the cop felt he needed to have gun in hand to deal with Brown.

I can quite easily envision the cop holding the kid by his shirt collar (eyewitnesses all say the cop was trying to pull the kid in the car window) while pointing his gun at the kid’s face to scare the crap out of him. It also would make sense that the kid would instinctively try to push the gun away or aside. I sure would.

56 Kilroy01  Aug 15, 2014 11:40:20am

re: #52 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Same logic as this “For peaceful purposes”
Youtube Video

57 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 11:40:26am

In case you haven’t seen the surveillance video, here it is.

MSNBC

58 CuriousLurker  Aug 15, 2014 11:40:40am

re: #53 lawhawk

Let me see if I get this right.
If the gun was holstered on the officer’s left hip, then you’d have to grab straight down, and that would be blocked/obscured by the door itself. If the gun was holstered on the right hip, then you’d have to reach across the officer. In either instance, how would Brown know which way to go for the gun.

The only way this begins to make even the slightest bit of sense is if the gun was already unholstered, which doesn’t make sense if the FPD repeatedly states that Brown wasn’t stopped as a suspect.

Does that cover it?

Yeah, now I’m starting to wonder if the gun was already drawn and Brown grabbed it to try to stop the cop from shooting him….

59 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 11:41:15am

re: #48 urbanmeemaw

Are there Federal or state laws which specify how, why and when the Federal Government agencies can move in and what they can and cannot do? I would feel so much better if DOJ/FBI started from scratch.

Another big problem is FPD’s incompetence and mismanagement. I wouldn’t trust them to organize a Red Rover game at the FOP picnic much less coordinate an investigation, even if their back sides weren’t on the line.

And thanks again for your knowledge and eloquence, Mr. Hawk.

There is precedent, but it’s rare. Phenix City AL was taken over by the Alabama National Guard in the 1950s because of blatant, murderous corruption. The murder rate was so high it was impacting Ft. Benning.

en.wikipedia.org

60 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:41:29am

re: #53 lawhawk

“The suspect tried to deflect my gun as I was pointing it out the vehicle window at him” just doesn’t sound professional.

61 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:41:35am

re: #55 allegro

I can quite easily envision the cop holding the kid by his shirt collar (eyewitnesses all say the cop was trying to pull the kid in the car window) while pointing his gun at the kid’s face to scare the crap out of him. It also would make sense that the kid would instinctively try to push the gun away or aside. I sure would.

Indeed, I’ve considered that very scenario. And it makes more sense than Brown purposefully reaching into the car and struggling with the cop for his gun without any provocation on the cop’s part. The only way the latter scenario makes sense is if you’re a racist asshole who thinks Brown was a “thug” looking to kill a cop.

62 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 11:41:45am
63 allegro  Aug 15, 2014 11:42:07am

re: #58 CuriousLurker

Yeah, now I’m starting to wonder if the gun was already drawn and Brown grabbed it to try to stop the cop from shooting him….

That is the only scenario that makes a lick of sense.

64 Varek Raith  Aug 15, 2014 11:42:25am

This is way too fishy for my tastes.

65 prairiefire  Aug 15, 2014 11:44:35am

Can somebody post a photo of that tall drink of water wearing his blue straw MHSP hat?

66 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:44:54am

re: #64 Varek Raith

This is way too fishy for my tastes.

Yeah, I usually prefer things that don’t taste as fishy, like pollock.

67 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:45:00am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

Hey, how do you do the line break for updates in the article? I posted an update, but didn’t know the tagging to do it with the time stamp.

Thanks!

68 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:46:23am

re: #55 allegro

I can quite easily envision the cop holding the kid by his shirt collar (eyewitnesses all say the cop was trying to pull the kid in the car window) while pointing his gun at the kid’s face to scare the crap out of him. It also would make sense that the kid would instinctively try to push the gun away or aside. I sure would.

Michael Brown was 6’4”. How long was this cop’s arm to reach out and grab Brown by the neck and pull him into the car?

Just asking questions…

69 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 11:46:54am

re: #67 lawhawk

Hey, how do you do the line break for updates in the article? I posted an update, but didn’t know the tagging to do it with the time stamp.

Thanks!

Just insert a paragraph consisting of nothing but:

Update:

… et voila.

70 prairiefire  Aug 15, 2014 11:47:18am

re: #67 lawhawk

Hey, how do you do the line break for updates in the article? I posted an update, but didn’t know the tagging to do it with the time stamp.

Thanks!

I told my kids we all huddle around lawhawk to tell us what is what. Thanks again!

71 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 11:47:24am
72 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:49:15am

re: #69 Charles Johnson

Wow. That was much easier than I seemed to recall. Thanks.

73 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 11:50:34am

And this would be where I block him for being a moron

74 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 11:50:51am

re: #72 lawhawk

Wow. That was much easier than I seemed to recall. Thanks.

One more thing - you should follow it with a blank line to make the vertical spacing look correct. (I already edited it to do this.)

75 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:51:19am

Really seems like the Ferguson PD is less focused on actually investigating this incident and more on trying to muddy the waters for any potential criminal charges or civil lawsuits. Wouldn’t surprise me if the County prosecutor is helping to shape their CYA strategy towards that end.

76 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:51:32am

Apparently, Chief Jackson will be taking questions this time around.
Should be interesting.

77 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:52:36am
78 allegro  Aug 15, 2014 11:52:41am

re: #68 Backwoods_Sleuth

Michael Brown was 6’4”. How long was this cop’s arm to reach out and grab Brown by the neck and pull him into the car?

Just asking questions…

No idea. Just basing that on multiple eyewitness accounts of the cop trying to pull the kid inside the car through the window.

79 EPR-radar  Aug 15, 2014 11:52:55am

re: #75 Targetpractice

Really seems like the Ferguson PD is less focused on actually investigating this incident and more on trying to muddy the waters for any potential criminal charges or civil lawsuits. Wouldn’t surprise me if the County prosecutor is helping to shape their CYA strategy towards that end.

Hopefully the counter to this will be the DOJ/FBI investigation leading to pattern and practice cases against everyone who is obstructing justice here.

80 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:54:31am

re: #78 allegro

No idea. Just basing that on multiple eyewitness accounts of the cop trying to pull the kid inside the car through the window.

My scenario:
“Hey, you!”
“Yes, officer?” walks over to cruiser, leans down.

boom…

81 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:55:12am

re: #77 jaunte

[Embedded content]

That’s the beauty of it, by throwing this report of an alleged “robbery” out there, they give the cop a reason to stop Brown (suspect in “robbery”) and they turn Johnson from key eyewitness into accomplice in “robbery” who is lying to cover for friend.

82 Mattand  Aug 15, 2014 11:55:54am

If my Facebook exchanges are any indication, the video and the press release are doing their job. It’s pretty much stopping the conversation at “Big black kid was a criminal, and therefore got what he deserved.”

83 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:56:17am
84 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 11:56:21am

re: #81 Targetpractice

Except they forgot to arrest or even interview Johnson. Oops.

85 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 11:56:42am

New RW talking point - Brown rushed at the cop while he was in the car. (via Dana Loesh’s twitter feed).

Except all the witnesses alive to address this would categorically and emphatically refute this. Only the cop’s version has yet to be known, and the police have obfuscated at every step so far.

86 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 15, 2014 11:58:02am

So after robbing the store he went home, changed his sandals and put on running shoes.

87 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 11:58:18am

re: #85 lawhawk

New RW talking point - Brown rushed at the cop while he was in the car. (via Dana Loesh’s twitter feed).

Except all the witnesses alive to address this would categorically and emphatically refute this. Only the cop’s version has yet to be known, and the police have obfuscated at every step so far.

::head::desk::

Don’t most “criminals” automatically run in the opposite direction?

88 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:58:29am

re: #84 jaunte

Except they forgot to arrest or even interview Johnson. Oops.

They’ve covered for themselves. First it was “Johnson won’t return our calls,” and today it’s “Johnson is not being charged as an accomplice.”

89 Kilroy01  Aug 15, 2014 11:58:41am

re: #84 jaunte

They are probably getting a warren so they can search his residence and look for more “clues” and conveniently find some.

90 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 11:59:21am

re: #87 Backwoods_Sleuth

::head::desk::

Don’t most “criminals” automatically run in the opposite direction?

Usually. But that’s the point of the suggestion that Brown rushed the cop, because it now gives the cop the necessary “fear” that would drive him to shoot a fleeing suspect.

91 allegro  Aug 15, 2014 11:59:51am

re: #87 Backwoods_Sleuth

::head::desk::

Don’t most “criminals” automatically run in the opposite direction?

Especially black teenagers who have grown up in a town with an all-white police force known to beat the shit out of innocent black men.

92 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:00:07pm

re: #88 Targetpractice

“Johnson won’t return our calls”
“Johnson is not being charged as an accomplice”

Strangely passive for such a militarized PD.

93 Ace-o-aces  Aug 15, 2014 12:01:06pm

re: #57 Charles Johnson

It looks like he got in an argument with the clerk, so he just grabbed the smokes and left. Dumb, but not exactly the kind of thing that requires an armed response.

94 allegro  Aug 15, 2014 12:01:25pm

re: #92 jaunte

Strangely passive for such a militarized PD.

In response to the Great Cigarillo Caper.

95 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:02:01pm

re: #86 Pie-onist Overlord

So after robbing the store he went home, changed his sandals and put on running shoes.

I don’t know what the thing is about running shoes. The picture I saw of his body in the street, he was wearing sandals with 4 or 5 straps, and socks.

96 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:02:05pm

ABC reporting that the ACLU has filed suit to get the incident report of the shooting released.

97 b.d.  Aug 15, 2014 12:02:12pm

re: #94 allegro

In response to the Great Cigarillo Caper.

The Swisher Sweet SWAT Squad was sent in.

98 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 15, 2014 12:03:08pm

re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth

I don’t know what the thing is about running shoes. The picture I saw of his body in the street, he was wearing sandals with 4 or 5 straps, and socks.

Looked to me like running shoes, but I did not see a close-up.

99 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:03:16pm

re: #92 jaunte

Strangely passive for such a militarized PD.

For some reason, I think the Ferguson police might have a problem finding witnesses backing up their story.

100 simoom  Aug 15, 2014 12:03:42pm

Russian side of the border:

101 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:04:52pm

Chief Jackson presser starting now.

102 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:05:22pm

He’s breathy and talking fast.

103 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:06:12pm

oh, this is painful…it’s total word salad.

104 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:06:27pm

re: #102 Backwoods_Sleuth

He’s breathy and talking fast.

Shoveling shit is hard work

105 Dr Lizardo  Aug 15, 2014 12:06:53pm

re: #103 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh, this is painful…it’s total word salad.

Is it Sarah Palin-esque word salad?

106 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:07:01pm

different officer handled the robbery.

107 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 15, 2014 12:07:02pm
108 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:07:03pm

Capt. Ron Johnson Slams Ferguson Presser: Shooting and Alleged Robbery ‘Two Separate Issues’

“I think we probably could have said some things a little bit different at that press conference, and maybe given out some information in a different way,” Johnson said calmly in an impromptu interview with KSDK, adding that he was not part of any discussions about how to proceed with the press conference.

His concern: Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson only released documents and evidence pertaining to Brown’s involvement in a convenience store robbery (in which he did not have a weapon), but failed to release anything about the shooting itself.

“I think [the robbery and the shooting] are two separate issues. People in our country commit crimes every day,” he observed. “I don’t want to mix the two, I’m not going to say that one justifies the other, and I think if we’re going to give answers, we need to not give hints. We need to say it.

109 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:07:18pm

re: #105 Dr Lizardo

Is it Sarah Palin-esque word salad?

it’s close

110 Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2014 12:07:36pm

Good news. Chat Noir is home. Toxin levels are down and there was no reason for the vet to hold him any longer. So he goes back for a blood test in 5-6 weeks.

He was shaved down to skin on both forelegs (for IVs) and a large swatch of his belly. He is spending a lot of time grooming the edges of these - I suspect it itches. If he starts overdoing that he gets the “cone of shame” for a few days. Appetite is good since he demolished the available wet food upon arrival.

His roommate Tuxedo Cat just hisses at him whenever they pass within a few feet of each other.

111 ipsos  Aug 15, 2014 12:08:10pm

The only way this news conference makes sense is if you see the earpiece he’s wearing, and Sarah Palin hunched over a mike in the trailer down the street talking to him.

112 Bulworth  Aug 15, 2014 12:08:12pm

re:
#110

Whew! Home for the weekend and beyond!

113 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:08:18pm

“Initial contact, Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery.” —Chief Jackson.

wow!

114 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:09:17pm
115 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:09:26pm

claims he released the videotape because “I had to because of all the Freedom of Information requests.”

oh. my. dog.

116 Varek Raith  Aug 15, 2014 12:09:26pm

WTF.

117 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:09:46pm

re: #110 Feline Fearless Leader

Good news. Chat Noir is home. Toxin levels are down and there was no reason for the vet to hold him any longer. So he goes back for a blood test in 5-6 weeks.

He was shaved down to skin on both forelegs (for IVs) and a large swatch of his belly. He is spending a lot of time grooming the edges of these - I suspect it itches. If he starts overdoing that he gets the “cone of shame” for a few days. Appetite is good since he demolished the available wet food upon arrival.

His roommate Tuxedo Cat just hisses at him whenever they pass within a few feet of each other.

Our cats do that to each other anytime one of them comes back from the vet. Apparently they can smell whatever chemicals are used in the vet’s office.

118 Kilroy01  Aug 15, 2014 12:09:47pm

re: #113 Backwoods_Sleuth

So why bring it up on the day you are announcing the officer’s name who shot him?

119 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:09:48pm

re: #114 jaunte

To turn Michael Brown into the Angry Black Man, of course.

120 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:10:07pm

re: #114 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Character assassination.

121 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:10:10pm

re: #115 Backwoods_Sleuth

claims he released the videotape because “I had to because of all the Freedom of Information requests.”

oh. my. dog.

What crap.

122 makeitstop  Aug 15, 2014 12:10:20pm

re: #115 Backwoods_Sleuth

claims he released the videotape because “I had to because of all the Freedom of Information requests.”

oh. my. dog.

Okay, who filed those FOIA requests? Name names, chief.

123 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:10:42pm

“I’m absolutely concerned about the safety of my community” — Jackson

good freaking grief

124 Bulworth  Aug 15, 2014 12:11:02pm

OK, thanks, Chief, but can we now have some of the facts about the shooting, please?

125 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:11:06pm

“Initial contact, Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery.” —Chief Jackson.

Shoplifting.

126 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:11:18pm

Jackson just said again that the officer DID NOT KNOW Brown was a suspect

127 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:11:42pm

I can’t watch the presser here at work, but if they’re seriously saying they made ZOMG HE WAS INVOLVED IN A ROBBERY the main headline the same day they named the cop just because of some FOIA requests, that’s some weapons grade bullshit right there.

What institutional racism? Assholes.

128 1Peter G1  Aug 15, 2014 12:11:42pm

I listened to Dorian’s account of what transpired on Sharpton’s show. He specifically mentioned that Brown handed him the package(s) of cigars that Brown was holding when the confrontation with the officer started. They were likely recovered at the scene. If so they will have product code and batch information that will make them traceable to some degree.

129 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:11:53pm

Stopped Brown because he was walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic.

REALLY?????????

130 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:12:46pm

Officer is 28 years old.

131 Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2014 12:12:47pm

re: #117 Targetpractice

Our cats do that to each other anytime one of them comes back from the vet. Apparently they can smell whatever chemicals are used in the vet’s office.

That’s what I figure as well. Tuxedo Cat has a strong negative connection to the smell of the disinfectant or hand sanitizer that they use.

132 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:12:49pm

Oh, he was in your way? Shoot, then.

133 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 12:12:52pm

re: #122 makeitstop

FOIAs were made by the STL Post Dispatch and the ACLU (among others), but those were in relation to the shooting. They could potentially have swept up the “related” robbery, but the Chief document dumped all this without saying that there was no relation and that the stop was not in relation to the incident at the Ferguson market and liquor.

What’s missing from the FOIA is all information relation to the actual shooting, which the Department claims privilege. See cover sheet:

134 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:13:01pm

re: #129 Backwoods_Sleuth

Stopped Brown because he was walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic.

REALLY?????????

There’s several neighborhood kids who like to play basketball in the “T” at the end of the street my house is on. Who knew that they were hardened criminals engaged in capital crimes?

135 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:13:37pm

“gentle, quiet man, a distinguished officer.” — Jackson

136 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 12:13:41pm

re: #132 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Oh, he was in your way? Shoot, then.

He did.

137 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:13:45pm

re: #125 jaunte

“Initial contact, Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery.” —Chief Jackson.

Shoplifting.

EXACTLY. There was no weapon. No deadly force. That means that under Mizzou law, it’s not a robbery.

Also, if the most that got stolen is some cigars, that’s shoplifting, which would be a Class A misdemeanor under the law at best. Plus, since Brown didn’t have any prior criminal record, he could’ve probably cut a deal to make restitution or do community service or whatever in exchange for the charges being dropped or for a lesser charge.

138 Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 15, 2014 12:14:43pm

re: #134 Targetpractice

There’s several neighborhood kids who like to play basketball in the “T” at the end of the street my house is on. Who knew that they were hardened criminals engaged in capital crimes?

“Car!”
“Game on!”
“Car”

139 Kilroy01  Aug 15, 2014 12:14:56pm

re: #135 Backwoods_Sleuth

Wait, I though he was a Ferguson cop?

140 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:15:35pm

Jackson now saying that he never said robbery this morning in connection with Brown, even though the damned report lists Brown and Johnson as suspects on AUGUST 9!

141 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:15:51pm

re: #139 Kilroy01

Wait, I though he was a Ferguson cop?

heh.

142 makeitstop  Aug 15, 2014 12:16:32pm

re: #133 lawhawk

FOIAs were made by the STL Post Dispatch and the ACLU (among others), but those were in relation to the shooting. They could potentially have swept up the “related” robbery, but the Chief document dumped all this without saying that there was no relation and that the stop was not in relation to the incident at the Ferguson market and liquor.

What’s missing from the FOIA is all information relation to the actual shooting, which the Department claims privilege. See cover sheet:

[Embedded content]

Ah, thanks. I misinterpreted the post and thought there were FOIA requests for the video. My bad.

143 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 12:16:56pm

re: #83 Backwoods_Sleuth

POLITICO reporter risks cardiac arrest in McDonald’s

Supersized that fer ya.

144 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:17:04pm
145 sagehen  Aug 15, 2014 12:17:08pm

re: #128 1Peter G1

I listened to Dorian’s account of what transpired on Sharpton’s show. He specifically mentioned that Brown handed him the package(s) of cigars that Brown was holding when the confrontation with the officer started. They were likely recovered at the scene. If so they will have product code and batch information that will make them traceable to some degree.

Am I the first to point out that nobody, literally *nobody*, smokes those cigars?

What they’re for (as 60% of the people here probably already know) is to slice them open, throw away half the tobacco, mix the other half with pot, and reroll it in the same paper.

ETA: the convenience store clerk definitely knows that’s what the cigars are for. Is it possible that’s what they were spatting about (“I’m going to tell your mother.” “Fuck you buddy”)?

146 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 12:17:09pm
147 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:17:23pm
148 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:17:23pm

re: #144 jaunte

[Embedded content]

149 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:18:23pm

The Chief is not enhancing respect for the police by standing up in front of the world and telling lies.

150 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:18:48pm

PR is definitely not an asset in the Ferguson PD organization.

151 makeitstop  Aug 15, 2014 12:19:20pm

re: #147 jaunte

How did the media know to pressure the Ferguson police to release video of the previously undisclosed alleged robbery?

That’s what I was wondering in my question about FOIAs.

152 becominginvisible  Aug 15, 2014 12:19:36pm

Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson “He never intended for any of this to happen.” Derp. Looked nervous and had to be led away. Sad to see someone in charge of a suburban police department in a large metropolitan area look and sound so incompetent.

153 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:19:52pm
154 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:20:27pm

re: #148 Targetpractice

[Embedded image]

My response to all this fuckery goes back in forth between Colbert’s headdesking and this:

155 Bulworth  Aug 15, 2014 12:20:31pm

re:
#147

Because shutup.

156 1Peter G1  Aug 15, 2014 12:20:52pm

Youtube Video at 2.40 Dorian states that their hands were filled with cigarillos…

157 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 12:20:59pm

At Michael Brown’s trial?

158 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:21:07pm
159 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 15, 2014 12:21:58pm

Since Dim Jim is saying this I’m inclined to believe it’s complete bullshit

160 1Peter G1  Aug 15, 2014 12:22:50pm

re: #145 sagehen

I have. And I have a friend who smokes nothing else but Swisher Sweets. Neither of us use pot at all.

161 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 12:22:51pm
162 TedStriker  Aug 15, 2014 12:23:11pm

re: #144 jaunte

No “poisoning the well” here, nosireebob….

163 sagehen  Aug 15, 2014 12:23:18pm

re: #160 1Peter G1

I have. And I have a friend who smokes nothing else but Swisher Sweets. Neither of us use pot at all.

Seriously? That’s creepier than pizza without pineapple.

164 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 12:23:42pm

Wow, this is looking worse and worse for the Ferguson PD. Why the hell release that video if it had nothing to do with Brown being stopped?

Fucking unreal.

165 b.d.  Aug 15, 2014 12:24:37pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

Wow, this is looking worse and worse for the Ferguson PD. Why the hell release that video if it had nothing to do with Brown being stopped?

Fucking unreal.

Hannity probably gave him some coaching pro tips after his interview with him

166 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 12:24:52pm

Wait. What?

Yeah, USA Today went to try and interview Wilson, and found that he left town with his family.

The optics of that looks…. well… not good. This is yet another sign of a police department that is in way over its head, and whose bad practices are being exposed to a greater degree with each passing hour.

Why wasn’t he told to stick around and that if the media come calling, for him to funnel everything through a lawyer (you have to assume he’s had time to go get one). He can’t and shouldn’t make statements, but the media will come a calling and he should be prepared for the fallout with a prepared statement that he is under investigation, the investigation will proceed, and he’s cooperating with the authorities, prosecutors, etc., and that he is sorry for the unfortunate death. Skipping town just looks bad.

This is PR101, but apparently no one involved with the FPD knows the first thing about crisis and damage control.

I’m adding this to the updates.

167 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 12:25:32pm

re: #163 sagehen

Seriously? That’s creepier than pizza without pineapple.

Our highschool/college permitted 18 yr old juniors to smoke pipe or cigars. Swisher Sweets were a popular buy in the bookstore.

168 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:25:50pm
169 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:25:54pm

re: #166 lawhawk

Wait. What?

[Embedded content]

Yeah, USA Today went to try and interview Wilson, and found that he left town with his family.

The optics of that looks…. well… not good. This is yet another sign of a police department that is in way over its head, and whose bad practices are being exposed to a greater degree with each passing hour.

Why wasn’t he told to stick around and that if the media come calling, for him to funnel everything through a lawyer (you have to assume he’s had time to go get one). He can’t and shouldn’t make statements, but the media will come a calling and he should be prepared for the fallout with a prepared statement that he is under investigation, the investigation will proceed, and he’s cooperating with the authorities, prosecutors, etc., and that he is sorry for the unfortunate death. Skipping town just looks bad.

This is PR101, but apparently no one involved with the FPD knows the first thing about crisis and damage control.

Didn’t you know that there’s a lynch mob of black people out there looking for this guy? He’s gotta disappear to protect himself!

/////

170 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 12:26:08pm
171 becominginvisible  Aug 15, 2014 12:26:34pm

re: #131 Feline Fearless Leader

You mean the smell that is associated with being used as a pin cushion?

172 Swift2991  Aug 15, 2014 12:26:46pm

Latest: according to chief, officer did not know about robbery at the stop. It really was about jaywalking.

173 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:27:02pm
174 simoom  Aug 15, 2014 12:27:21pm

re: #100 simoom

175 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:27:49pm
176 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 12:27:57pm

re: #172 Swift2991

Latest: according to chief, officer did not know about robbery at the stop. It really was about jaywalking.

If you don’t have a decent short-term memory, better stick with the truth.

177 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 12:28:01pm

re: #170 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Hoft’s home turf. These are his people. Some of ‘em are. Lying? Check. Racist? Check. Shameless? Check.

178 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:28:17pm

re: #159 Pie-onist Overlord

Since Dim Jim is saying this I’m inclined to believe it’s complete bullshit

[Embedded content]

179 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:28:18pm
180 Charles Johnson  Aug 15, 2014 12:28:33pm
181 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:29:01pm
182 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:29:15pm

Isn’t one of the first things the cops tell a suspect in a murder “don’t leave town”?

183 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:29:20pm

re: #172 Swift2991

Latest: according to chief, officer did not know about robbery at the stop. It really was about jaywalking.

Because jaywalking is a capital offense. WTF.

184 socrets  Aug 15, 2014 12:30:01pm

1) As well know, states are the true defenders of liberty and freedom while the Federal is just a jack-booted thug.

2) You’d think the Ferguson PD was run by idiots based on the their actions. First, they violently break up a relatively peaceful protest using military grade weapons, and now they try to smear the dead guy’s reputation by trying to pin him to a crime that he was unrelated?

I’m guessing the Police Chief ate one too many lead paint chips when he was a kid and used to be one of those cops who would magically find a knife after shooting an unarmed African-American.

185 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:30:20pm

Is that why they waited until today to release his name, because they were buying time for him to pack up and haul ass out?

186 thedopefishlives  Aug 15, 2014 12:30:28pm

So, let’s see if I’ve got this straight: Ferguson PD released a completely unrelated video, claiming it was “asked for via FOIA requests” (though who would’ve asked for a video nobody knew existed?), and then it comes out that the officer who made the stop - purely for jaywalking, by the police department’s own admission the video in question of the alleged shoplifting was not related to the stop - was allowed to just up and leave town? I’ve got to hand it to the Ferguson PD; they’ve got a damn good thing going when it comes to a planned coverup of cold-blooded murder. And yes, that is exactly what I’m calling it now.

187 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:30:37pm

re: #182 Targetpractice

‘Optics’ are what they get surplus from the Pentagon.

188 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:30:43pm

re: #182 Targetpractice

Isn’t one of the first things the cops tell a suspect in a murder “don’t leave town”?

That’s only when the victim is white.

Why do you hate America?

////////////

189 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:30:48pm

re: #161 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It’s been all over the internet since this morning that Darren Wilson is the officer in the photo. But there are two cops there.
I’m not discounting legitimacy of the photo, but I’ll wait on confirmation of the cop ID.

190 Franklin  Aug 15, 2014 12:31:12pm
191 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:31:15pm
192 socrets  Aug 15, 2014 12:31:56pm

re: #178 Kragar

I’m sure the stolen goods were right next to a knife or a gun that Brown hadn’t been carrying before he was shot.

193 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:32:47pm

re: #192 socrets

I’m sure the stolen goods were right next to a knife or a gun that Brown hadn’t been carrying before he was shot.

but where’s the water bottle????
///////////////

194 jaunte  Aug 15, 2014 12:32:50pm
195 thedopefishlives  Aug 15, 2014 12:33:24pm

re: #190 Franklin Brewsevelt

No paper trail, no documents to be forced to release to the public, all they’ve got is the cops’ word vs. some eyewitnesses of questionable character. Oh, and we let him leave because we were pretty sure he didn’t do anything wrong. You know, he only shot a black kid to death, no big deal, right?

196 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 12:34:57pm

re: #190 Franklin Brewsevelt

197 Targetpractice  Aug 15, 2014 12:35:59pm

Now I find myself wondering if the FBI has been kept in the loop about the cop leaving town and his present whereabouts.

198 Dr Lizardo  Aug 15, 2014 12:36:04pm

re: #178 Kragar

[Embedded content]

As illustrated in this scene from L.A. Confidential.

And yes, this kinds of shit did indeed happen - and still does from time to time.

Youtube Video

At around 1:55.

199 TedStriker  Aug 15, 2014 12:36:09pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

Wow, this is looking worse and worse for the Ferguson PD. Why the hell release that video if it had nothing to do with Brown being stopped?

Fucking unreal.

Oh, I think we all know the answer to that: to assassinate the character of a person that one of their own assassinated for real and the character of the best eyewitness to the former’s death.

The Ferguson and STL county cops so want to completely poison the well on this so that no one of any consequence gets convicted at trial (if it ever happens), it’s beyond evident.

200 thedopefishlives  Aug 15, 2014 12:36:25pm

re: #196 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Well, to be fair, lawhawk, the police department could just be blowing smoke to cover for the complete absence of such a report. Unless they’re required by the law to state if no such record exists (I don’t know the details of FOIA; you tell me). Also, at this point I’m not even sure I trust them to follow the law even if it does require them to do so.

201 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 15, 2014 12:38:57pm

re: #195 thedopefishlives

No paper trail, no documents to be forced to release to the public, all they’ve got is the cops’ word vs. some eyewitnesses of questionable character. Oh, and we let him leave because we were pretty sure he didn’t do anything wrong. You know, he only shot a black kid to death, no big deal, right?

I called this yesterday.

littlegreenfootballs.com

202 Kilroy01  Aug 15, 2014 12:39:43pm

So now what happens?

Grand Jury?

What?

203 Shvaughn  Aug 15, 2014 12:39:49pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

Didn’t you know that there’s a lynch mob of black people out there looking for this guy? He’s gotta disappear to protect himself!

/////

He’s hanging out with Zimmerman.

204 wrenchwench  Aug 15, 2014 12:40:39pm
205 Bulworth  Aug 15, 2014 12:41:00pm

“OK, afternoon everybody, welcome to our second press conference. I just want to take this opportunity to say that the officer who shot this thief and thug was a gentle, kind officer and a great all round guy. About that video and screen shots of the victim, yeah I know, not connected to the shooting at all. No biggie. Just thought you might like to see it. The officer is out of town, somewhere. Maybe out of the country for all I know. OK, boys, this sure was fun, gotta get ready for Hannity. Bye now!”

206 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 12:42:16pm

Going back to Jackson’s morning presser. According to what he said, here’s rough timeline (among other things, I want to know how the hell Wilson made it from Glenark to the scene in 1 minute—or am I missing something?)

11:48 Officer Wilson at sick call on Glenark
11:51 911 Call from a convenience store (Ferguson Market & Liquor, W. Florrisant)
11:52 Description of robbery suspect dispatched
? A different officer arrives at store
? Further description dispatched—says suspect walking toward Quik Trip
12:00 Officer Wilson leaves Glenark
12:01 Officer Wilson encounters Michael Brown on Canfield Dr.
12:04 Second officer arrives on scene
12:05 Supervisor dispatched to scene and other officers arrive
? Ambulance from Glenark call arrives at scene to “assess” Michael Brown

207 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:43:02pm
208 Bulworth  Aug 15, 2014 12:43:17pm

Is there a fake Twitter account for this police chief yet?

209 klys  Aug 15, 2014 12:43:32pm

re: #206 BeachDem

Going back to Jackson’s morning presser. According to what he said, here’s rough timeline (among other things, I want to know how the hell Wilson made it from Glenark to the scene in 1 minute—or am I missing something?)

11:48 Officer Wilson at sick call on Glenark
11:51 911 Call from a convenience store (Ferguson Market & Liquor, W. Florrisant)
11:52 Description of robbery suspect dispatched
? A different officer arrives at store
? Further description dispatched—says suspect walking toward Quik Trip
12:00 Officer Wilson leaves Glenark
12:01 Officer Wilson encounters Michael Brown on Canfield Dr.
12:04 Second officer arrives on scene
12:05 Supervisor dispatched to scene and other officers arrive
? Ambulance from Glenark call arrives at scene to “assess” Michael Brown

And now consider the timestamp on the tweet above.

210 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:44:08pm

re: #208 Bulworth

Is there a fake Twitter account for this police chief yet?

I don’t think anyone could out do the real chief

211 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:44:36pm

That sound you hear is a bunch of RWNJ heads going ‘splodey. They don’t know whether to cheer this or use it as more evidence that Rand Paul is a RINO:

Sharpton Says ‘Rand Paul Is Right,’ Wonders How This’ll Hurt Hillary Clinton

While discussing the topic du jour with Morning Joe, Sharpton admitted that he believes the libertarian-leaning Sen. Paul (R-KY) was correct in his TIME op-ed excoriating police militarization and the troubling racial disparities in law enforcement.

Sharpton later suggested Paul’s beliefs on this issue will “change the tenor” in the Republican Party, but will also put pressure on Hillary Clinton to step up her game with race issues. “Rand Paul could be something of use to all sides,” he said after explaining that the civil rights community already has a lot of questions about the Clintons’ actions.

212 Khal Wimpo  Aug 15, 2014 12:45:10pm

re: #192 socrets

I’m sure the stolen goods were right next to a knife or a gun that Brown hadn’t been carrying before he was shot.

Known as a “ham sandwich” or a “throwdown piece”. Yeah, we had a lot of that with the LAPD back in the Bad Old Days. Still see it in departments where there is institutional rot and inadequate oversight from civilian governmental organizations. Guessing that when we start looking at the records of the department’s history of selective enforcement, that there are going to be a lot of officers filing their retirement papers.

In California, they’d get a Skelly hearing, after which the Chief would have to uphold the discipline, after which they could beef it up to the City Manager/Council, thus exhausting their administrative appeals, before they started the whole process of applying for injunctions and appeals in Superior Court. It’s why it took so goddam long to fire the dirty ones.

213 Bulworth  Aug 15, 2014 12:48:42pm

Sounds like the Ferguson PD has been watching the movie Cop Land all week.

214 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:49:02pm

re: #206 BeachDem

Going back to Jackson’s morning presser. According to what he said, here’s rough timeline (among other things, I want to know how the hell Wilson made it from Glenark to the scene in 1 minute—or am I missing something?)

11:48 Officer Wilson at sick call on Glenark
11:51 911 Call from a convenience store (Ferguson Market & Liquor, W. Florrisant)
11:52 Description of robbery suspect dispatched
? A different officer arrives at store
? Further description dispatched—says suspect walking toward Quik Trip
12:00 Officer Wilson leaves Glenark
12:01 Officer Wilson encounters Michael Brown on Canfield Dr.
12:04 Second officer arrives on scene
12:05 Supervisor dispatched to scene and other officers arrive
? Ambulance from Glenark call arrives at scene to “assess” Michael Brown

That’s roughly my recollection. Here’s what WaPo reported this morning:

Wilson, who had been responding to a different call shortly before noon on Saturday, left that area after the 911 call regarding the “strong-arm robbery” at the store.
A description of a possible suspect and the suspect’s location was also given over the radio.

Wilson left the call he had been responding to and encountered Brown on Canfield Drive at 12:01 p.m., Jackson said.
Within minutes, Wilson shot and killed Brown, though the exact circumstances of how this occurred remain unknown.

I also recall Chief Jackson saying something similar this morning in his first presser.

215 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 12:49:04pm

re: #200 thedopefishlives

Under MO Rev. Statute 610:100:
Definitions:

(4) “Incident report”, a record of a law enforcement agency consisting of the date, time, specific location, name of the victim and immediate facts and circumstances surrounding the initial report of a crime or incident, including any logs of reported crimes, accidents and complaints maintained by that agency;

General Rule:

2. Each law enforcement agency of this state, of any county, and of any municipality shall maintain records of all incidents reported to the agency, investigations and arrests made by such law enforcement agency. All incident reports and arrest reports shall be open records.

Exceptions, which give the agency wide latitude:

Except as provided in subsections 4, 5, 6 and 7 of this section, if any portion of a record or document of a law enforcement officer or agency, other than an arrest report, which would otherwise be open, contains information that is reasonably likely to pose a clear and present danger to the safety of any victim, witness, undercover officer, or other person; or jeopardize a criminal investigation, including records which would disclose the identity of a source wishing to remain confidential or a suspect not in custody; or which would disclose techniques, procedures or guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, that portion of the record shall be closed and shall be redacted from any record made available pursuant to this chapter.

The family can get those closed records though.

And here’s the kicker,

Any person may apply pursuant to this subsection to the circuit court having jurisdiction for an order requiring a law enforcement agency to open incident reports and arrest reports being unlawfully closed pursuant to this section. If the court finds by a preponderance of the evidence that the law enforcement officer or agency has knowingly violated this section, the officer or agency shall be subject to a civil penalty in an amount up to one thousand dollars. If the court finds that there is a knowing violation of this section, the court may order payment by such officer or agency of all costs and attorneys’ fees, as provided by section 610.027.

So, what we have is an agency that refused to provide the key documents requested, claimed privilege under 610:100, but the officer who is at the heart of this incident already left town for whereabouts unknown. That undermines the shielding, but the investigation is still under way, and it is a valid argument that releasing certain information about the preliminary investigation would prejudice the case.

216 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 12:49:18pm

re: #140 Backwoods_Sleuth

Jackson now saying that he never said robbery this morning in connection with Brown, even though the damned report lists Brown and Johnson as suspects on AUGUST 9!

Word for word from his morning presser:

“At 11:52, dispatch gave a description of a robbery suspect over the radio. A different officer arrived at the store where the strong-arm robbery occurred.”

217 lawhawk  Aug 15, 2014 12:49:42pm

re: #206 BeachDem

I think this maps things out.

google.com

218 KiTA  Aug 15, 2014 12:50:15pm

Possibly old, but:

dailykos.com

The Police Chief literally only released the robbery video to throw some red meat to the RWNJs and the Racists to get them to defend his officers. Not only that, he did it so poorly that he had to admit that within hours.

Holy crap, this guy’s horrible at this.

219 Kragar  Aug 15, 2014 12:50:56pm
220 klys  Aug 15, 2014 12:51:21pm

The officer involved has apparently only been with the department for 4 years and spent the previous 2 with the Jennings Police Department.

221 Swift2991  Aug 15, 2014 12:51:32pm

I was brought up in Canada, and every spring, we’d start playing street hockey with tennis balls as pucks. Great days. When a car would approach, we’d step aside. It was a seasonal ritual. Who knew we could have gotten executed for obstructing traffic.

222 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 12:51:58pm

Wilson KNEW there was a robbery, HAD a suspect description, and went hunting.

223 Amory Blaine  Aug 15, 2014 12:52:33pm

Officer leaves town after a fatal shooting? Doesn’t policing 101 cover that like in the 1st chapter?

224 Lidane  Aug 15, 2014 12:57:11pm

re: #218 KiTA

Possibly old, but:

dailykos.com

The Police Chief literally only released the robbery video to throw some red meat to the RWNJs and the Racists to get them to defend his officers. Not only that, he did it so poorly that he had to admit that within hours.

Holy crap, this guy’s horrible at this.

Actually, he’s really good at it. Now that the racists and RWNJs have their talking points, nothing will dissuade them.

Try putting together a jury anywhere in Missouri now.

225 Jayleia  Aug 15, 2014 1:01:56pm

re: #208 Bulworth

There is this: twitter.com

226 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 1:02:48pm

re: #214 Backwoods_Sleuth

That’s roughly my recollection. Here’s what WaPo reported this morning:

I also recall Chief Jackson saying something similar this morning in his first presser.

Transcript of morning presser, per Salon (I listened to it while reading and it is correct). Made my timeline based on his words.

From 11:48 to noon, the officer involved in the shooting was on a sick call on Glenark [Drive], there was an ambulance present. At 11:51 there was a 911 call from a convenience store nearby. At 11:52, dispatch gave a description of a robbery suspect over the radio. A different officer arrived at the store where the strong-arm robbery occurred. A further description was given over the radio that stated the suspect was walking toward QuikTrip. The officer left the sick call. He encountered the- At 12:01, our officer encountered Michael Brown on Canfield Drive. At 12:04 a second officer arrived on the scene immediately following the shooting. At 12:05 a supervisor was dispatched to the scene and subsequent officers arrived. There have been some questions about the calling of an ambulance. The ambulance that was at the sick case at Glenark was coming by immediately following the shooting and they did respond to assess Michael Brown.

227 ObserverArt  Aug 15, 2014 1:03:21pm

re: #204 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Father reminds me of a friends dog many years ago. The worlds largest 105 pound lap dog Malamute named Saber. Gentle giant, but he was going to get in your lap and block your view with his damn chest no matter what. Pet or die of compression!

228 TedStriker  Aug 15, 2014 1:03:52pm

re: #224 Lidane

Actually, he’s really good at it. Now that the racists and RWNJs have their talking points, nothing will dissuade them.

Try putting together a jury anywhere in Missouri now.

Yeah, pretty much.

All of this, including the cop in question hightailing it out of the city, only says one thing from the Ferguson/STL county cops’ POV: Mission accomplished.

229 ObsidianB  Aug 15, 2014 1:03:56pm

One other inconsistency that is being overlooked. Michael Brown was shot fifteen minutes after he allegedly robbed the store. When he was killed, he was apparently wearing pants and sneakers. Yet, in the convenience store video of the shoplifting incident, the perpetrator, who is alleged to be Brown, was wearing khaki shorts and sandals. Unless Brown had a time machine, there is no way they could be the same person.

230 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 1:06:28pm

re: #217 lawhawk

I think this maps things out.

google.com

Yes—still don’t know how Wilson did all that in under 4 minutes.

231 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 1:08:00pm

re: #222 Backwoods_Sleuth

Wilson KNEW there was a robbery, HAD a suspect description, and went hunting.

And obviously left the sick call on Glenark before the ambulance did—my, he was in such a hurry!

232 1Peter G1  Aug 15, 2014 1:10:18pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

But it does have everything to do with what transpired. If it was, in fact, Brown who robbed the store he could have no way of knowing what the officer knew or was acting on. In which case he wasn’t just an innocent dude walking down the middle of the street. He was the guy who strong armed a clerk and stole some merchandise and was expecting to get arrested. And if it was him on the convenience store video then presumptions of being a harmless gentle giant just went out the window. It doesn’t matter what the officer knew. It was what Brown thought he knew.

233 Randall Gross  Aug 15, 2014 1:13:26pm

How does the supervisor get to the scene before the ambulance? Why?

234 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 1:15:24pm

re: #232 1Peter G1

Um hum. And when you’re a “fearsome, hulking strong-arm robber” trying to elude the police, you always walk down the middle of the road. //

235 Decatur Deb  Aug 15, 2014 1:17:26pm

re: #234 BeachDem

Um hum. And when you’re a “fearsome, hulking strong-arm robber” trying to elude the police, you always walk down the middle of the road. //

Been watching MB ‘grow’ on the RW websites. He’s as large as 6’4”, 300 lbs.

236 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 15, 2014 1:17:59pm

re: #233 Randall Gross

Reasonable question that I think I’m qualified to answer as a retired EMT.
The ambulance was already dispatched to and on the scene of a call. Any EMS protocol of which I am aware is that the ambulance is not allowed to abandon its dispatched scene until it is concluded or is released by the resource hospital, no matter what the other call may be.

237 EPR-radar  Aug 15, 2014 1:20:25pm

re: #232 1Peter G1

But it does have everything to do with what transpired. If it was, in fact, Brown who robbed the store he could have no way of knowing what the officer knew or was acting on. In which case he wasn’t just an innocent dude walking down the middle of the street. He was the guy who strong armed a clerk and stole some merchandise and was expecting to get arrested. And if it was him on the convenience store video then presumptions of being a harmless gentle giant just went out the window. It doesn’t matter what the officer knew. It was what Brown thought he knew.

This is so backward it’s hard to know where to start.

For starters, Brown is dead —- there is no need (or justification) for putting him on trial. Thus his state of mind is irrelevant.

The cop’s state of mind is what is relevant, and the picture we’re starting to see here is that the cop shot a fleeing person multiple times for no apparent reason, in particular with no reason to believe that the person shot was connected with any crime.

238 BeachDem  Aug 15, 2014 1:21:49pm

re: #235 Decatur Deb

Been watching MB ‘grow’ on the RW websites. He’s as large as 6’4”, 300 lbs.

Yep—all I can picture is the poster from “The Blind Side” (his name was Mike too)

239 Aqua Obama  Aug 15, 2014 1:25:51pm

H.Amdt.918 to H.R.4870

Purpose:
An amendment to prohibit use of funds to transfer aircraft (including unmanned aerial vehicles), armored vehicles, grenade launchers, silencers, toxicological agents, launch vehicles, guided missiles, ballistic missiles, rockets, torpedoes, bombs, mines, or nuclear weapons through the DOD Excess Personal Property Program established pursuant to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997.

The vote was 62-355. Not a single representative from the Deep South or Missouri voted for it (and no, Florida doesn’t count).

240 becominginvisible  Aug 15, 2014 1:39:36pm

Family reps live now

241 becominginvisible  Aug 15, 2014 1:41:30pm

Asks to remember that young man was executed in the middle of the street….family has been interviewed. Captain may disclose other facts.

242 becominginvisible  Aug 15, 2014 1:46:33pm

Parents know he wasn’t perfect. Don’t lose track of how he was killed the 18 years before that point aren’t relevant. Captain is inciting the citizens again, creating a side show. Asks again for no more rioting.

243 becominginvisible  Aug 15, 2014 1:59:08pm

Family has asked for independent autopsy by justice department. They do think that it is Mike in the store video. There may have been an autopsy by both the police department and the family. Darrell Parks(?) was the main speaker, two cousins. Fox2now is posting the full video around 3:15pm.

244 1Peter G1  Aug 15, 2014 4:17:46pm

re: #237 EPR-radar

You really don’t understand the significance of this assertion by the police do you? If it is true that Michael Brown was the person who assaulted and threatened convenience store the clerk and then stole merchandise and the officer did not know that the teenager he was encountering was that person then he was insufficiently wary. If Michael Brown was that person then he doubtless believed he was about to arrested on serious charges. And that gives him a motive to initiate an attack. Now everything I have written here and elsewhere is laden with conditionals because I do not pretend to have been a witness. You shouldn’t either.


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