Dueling Town Hall Night, Thread 1

It’s still not weird enough for me
Politics • Views: 48,365

Tonight we have dueling town hall meetings; CNN is hosting the Republican clown car, while MSNBC is hosting the slightly less clownish Democratic town hall with Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

I’m going to focus mainly on the Democratic town hall because who doesn’t know exactly what the Republicans are going to say at this point? So very predictable.

Neither of these networks are providing embeddable live streams for their events, so click the links above to find out how you can watch, or just turn on your TV if you haven’t thrown it out the window yet.

Jump to bottom

266 comments
1
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:00:40pm

Kasich playing good cop…

2
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:01:12pm

Wants “war” against beating up women…

3
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:02:15pm

Looks like I’m going to miss the town hall, because MSNBC’s feed is being a dick about verifying my Verizon account.

4
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:03:41pm

How people live in struggling Third World countries
#PureMichigan

5
thedopefishlives  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:04:07pm

re: #2 freetoken

Wants “war” against beating up women…

That word, war, is so over-used. It’s losing its magnitude.

6
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:05:21pm

re: #4 The Vicious Babushka

How people live in struggling Third World countries
#PureMichigan

[Embedded content]

I’m surprised Murdoch allowed them to take this picture.

7
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:05:22pm
8
VegasGolfer  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:11:18pm

Link

Bernie bots using fox polls to show bernie leading clinton.

9
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:12:59pm
10
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:13:07pm

I am unable to watch either feed this evening.

11
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:13:54pm

re: #10 Amory Blaine

I am unable to watch either feed this evening.

Because Comcast and Time-Warner want your money for you to learn about who you ought to vote for.

12
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:13:57pm

re: #10 Amory Blaine

I am unable to watch either feed this evening.

Not out of disgust or weariness, just technically challenged.

13
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:16:06pm

It’s time now to play the GOP’s favorite game, Find The Colored Guy!

Bzzzzzzzzz! Time’s up! Did you find the colored guy?

14
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:16:16pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Might not hurt to let him squeak through so that his reactionary policies can be exposed in the general.

15
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:16:35pm

If we had a strong FCC, they would demand that both broadcasters and monopolies (cable companies) provide free access to political debates and candidate forums.

16
bratwurst  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:17:13pm

Chuck Todd copping a ‘tude with CNN tonight after his network broadcast a 1 hour Trump infomercial last night to go head-to-head with them.

I am boycotting both “events”.

17
austin_blue  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:18:06pm

re: #13 De Kolta Chair

It’s time now to play the GOP’s favorite game, Find The Colored Guy!

[Embedded content]

I see a whole bunch of Pinkies, including the waving guy with the red tie.

18
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:18:27pm
19
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:19:34pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Bernie, Bernie. We didn’t when Bush tried implementing it with a Republican majority in Congress. What on earth makes you think it’s going ot be even close to happening with you and the current Congress.

20
austin_blue  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:19:37pm

re: #15 freetoken

If we had a strong FCC, they would demand that both broadcasters and monopolies (cable companies) provide free access to political debates and candidate forums.

I no haz de cablez…

21
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:19:59pm

re: #17 austin_blue

I see a whole bunch of Pinkies, including the waving guy with the red tie.

I just noticed that on the sign in the back, the US is white surrounded by red.

22
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:20:05pm
23
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:20:05pm

re: #13 De Kolta Chair

24
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:20:57pm

re: #20 austin_blue

I no haz de cablez…

Require OTA townhalls.

25
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:21:33pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It really frustrates me that he does not seem to get this at all.

26
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:22:40pm

I need a figurative shower. Sanders debates make me feel like a sellout.

27
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:22:43pm

re: #13 De Kolta Chair

It’s time now to play the GOP’s favorite game, Find The Colored Guy!

[Embedded content]

Bzzzzzzzzz! Time’s up! Did you find the colored guy?

Someone forgot to tell Garvey that diversity isn’t limited to just the stage you’re standing on.

28
austin_blue  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:22:52pm

re: #24 freetoken

Require OTA townhalls.

Agreed!

29
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:26:09pm

So some Fox asshole says the Pope needs to ask Donald Trump’s forgiveness. From what I recall, The Pope singled out anyone who builds a wall to keep people in or out. So I guess Fox thinks the Pope should ask Nikita Khruschev for forgiveness too.

30
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:26:26pm
31
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:29:01pm

“The right of political campaigns to design crappy graphics shall not be infringed.”

32
gwangung  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:29:03pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Kinda pissed me off when he stated he’d be a better racial uniter than Obama…

33
bratwurst  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:29:13pm

re: #24 freetoken

Require OTA townhalls.

These things are 99% about the gaping maw in prime time cable news schedules on channels that aren’t Fox, and 1% about educating the public.

34
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:29:36pm
35
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:29:46pm

re: #31 De Kolta Chair

“The right of political campaigns to design crappy graphics shall not be infringed.”

[Embedded content]

Liberty*

*Gay, black, Muslim, transgendered, woman, immigrant, need not apply.

36
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:30:00pm
37
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:30:22pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

Exactly.

38
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:31:05pm

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

That’s something I’ve seen a lot of African-Americans make. He talks a lot about this and good for him but what he’s done lately. What legislation relating to Civil Rights has he introduced? Has he been on the talk shows condemning police treatment of blacks?

39
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:31:14pm

re: #32 gwangung

Kinda pissed me off when he stated he’d be a better racial uniter than Obama…

Self awareness is mother-fucking key in life, and I have a really hard time respecting someone who displays so little of it.

40
gwangung  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:31:59pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

That’s something I’ve seen a lot of African-Americans make. He talks a lot about this and good for him but what he’s done lately. What legislation relating to Civil Rights has he introduced? Has he been on the talk shows condemning police treatment of blacks?

Yeah, Ferguson. Tamir Rice. John Crawford. Plenty of room to say something about them.

41
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:32:10pm

re: #31 De Kolta Chair

That coloring doesn’t quite work. The bell looks like it was cut out of a once crumpled up piece of paper.

42
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:32:25pm

re: #32 gwangung

Kinda pissed me off when he stated he’d be a better racial uniter than Obama…

Yeah I thought that was a very tone deaf moment. And then I think I saw that one of his supporters, may have just been some dumbass on Twitter so not an official surrogate claim Bernie’s more a personification of MLK’s dream than Obama is and it just made me want to scream.

43
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:33:05pm

re: #40 gwangung

Yeah, Ferguson. Tamir Rice. John Crawford. Plenty of room to say something about them.

Right. Guys like Representative Cummings and young activists like Deray have been there left and right on this stuff.

44
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:33:26pm
45
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:34:18pm

re: #31 De Kolta Chair

MY EYES

46
gwangung  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:34:20pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Right. Guys like Representative Cummings and young activists like Deray have been there left and right on this stuff.

THOSE people I’d be happy to be lectured by…(and have been, in Deray’s case, watching him act via Twitter…)

47
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:34:51pm

TYT spinning conspiracies about the audience questions’ really being written by producers…

48
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:35:20pm

re: #46 gwangung

THOSE people I’d be happy to be lectured by…(and have been, in Deray’s case, watching him act via Twitter…)

Well when they do lecture, they get called sell outs, establishment, DINO, etc. I like a lot of the idealism that people my age seem to have but for fuck sake listen to people who have been there before you. You can learn from them.

49
FormerDirtDart  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:35:29pm
50
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:35:51pm

Jeb! is on…

51
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:36:09pm

One thing that I kind of gave Bernie a pass on was when he was asked how his election would be groundbreaking, in comparison to the first woman President, and he rather conspicuously did not mention that he’d be the first Jewish President. Because I took it as a the clearest kind of acknowledgement that this country is still deeply fucked up and racist.

52
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:36:20pm

Fairly put.. Had to be said.

huffingtonpost.com

There is no shortage of punditry about former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s homebrew server, and the resulting fallout, aka “Emailgate.” Whether you read the commentary dedicated to killing her candidacy, or calmer voices focused on the bigger picture of national cybersecurity, Secretary Clinton gets failing marks — and rightly so.

Unlike some of Secretary Clinton’s critics, I don’t believe that the email controversy is, first and foremost, proof of some deep character flaw that will spell the end of our great nation should she become our 45th president. To be fair, she was not the first Secretary of State (indeed the first public official) to engage in this risky behavior. Instead, I view it as the tragic manifestation of where we find ourselves as a nation when it comes to cybersecurity, and precisely why breaches have become the third certainty in life.

53
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:36:20pm

re: #47 freetoken

TYT is trying to become the Alex Jones of the left.

54
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:36:50pm

Jeb! talking about the gun tweet…

55
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:37:13pm

Heh

56
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:37:14pm

re: #49 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

It’s the same thing since 1865, in your head, they are fighting in your head.

57
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:38:24pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

One thing that I kind of gave Bernie a pass on was when he was asked how his election would be groundbreaking, in comparison to the first woman President, and he rather conspicuously did not mention that he’d be the first Jewish President. Because I took it as a the clearest kind of acknowledgement that this country is still deeply fucked up and racist.

That’s an annoying question. Do not ask, during an election, how it’s going to be ground breaking or earth shattering. That’s an after the fact thing. That just contributes to the “she’s running because she has a uterus” shenanigans.

58
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:38:34pm

Jeb! trying to wear the wingnut coat… it doesn’t really fit him, but he’s trying real hard…

59
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:38:44pm
I’m going to focus mainly on the Democratic town hall because who doesn’t know exactly what the Republicans are going to say at this point?

You never know; Trump might announce he’ll build a dungeon in the White House and appoint Dick Cheney to the Office of Chief Torturer.

60
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:40:43pm

Did you know Jeb! thinks his father is the best man in the world?

61
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:41:55pm

How is it that Jeb! is still in this race?

62
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:07pm
63
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:12pm

Jeb! now getting a religious test from a preacher…

64
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:28pm

re: #61 Not a Sparkly Vampire

How is it that Jeb! is still in this race?

The momentum of money.

65
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:28pm

re: #49 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Didn’t Trump just say something about it being disgraceful to question a person’s faith? I’m sure he did.

66
austin_blue  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:31pm

re: #60 freetoken

Did you know Jeb! thinks his father is the best man in the world?

Now he’s got The Shrub all pissed off.

67
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:42:56pm

I voted for HRC in the primary, but I’m not happy about the clustering of Bernie with Trump, regardless of his supporters supposed attitudes. He’s been elected several times and has a record of progressive leadership. He is categorically NOT a Trump analog on the left.

68
bratwurst  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:43:18pm

re: #61 Not a Sparkly Vampire

How is it that Jeb! is still in this race?

Two words: Citizens United.

I am sure all parts of the GOP were gleeful with the concept of unlimited dark money. However, there is an excellent chance it is about to bite the “mainstream” of the party in the ass.

69
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:43:57pm

re: #64 freetoken

The momentum of money.

In that case actually burning it would’ve been more helpful to his campaign.

70
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:44:16pm

re: #52 Great White Snark

Fairly put.. Had to be said.

huffingtonpost.com

Still annoying, because
1) the government was hacked, while there’s no indication her server was,
2) the emails were released by the House, not her,
3) and this kind of classification should probably be happening with every email sent by a public employee.

The entire purpose of this is to turn her time as Secretary of State against her. A standard Rovian tactic that Democrats need to stop falling for.

I heard about it again today, at work, a defense contractor that requires everyone to understand how classification of materials works. There was no point in arguing with them, so I put my headphones on.

71
Testy Toad T  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:44:37pm

re: #67 Barefoot Grin

I voted for HRC in the primary, but I’m not happy about the clustering of Bernie with Trump, regardless of his supporters supposed attitudes. He’s been elected several times and has a record of progressive leadership. He is categorically NOT a Trump analog on the left.

Sanders is not a Trump analog on the left, full stop.

Some Sanders supporters are Trump supporter analogs on the left. And damn it but they’re not exactly rare.

72
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:45:13pm

re: #67 Barefoot Grin

I voted for HRC in the primary, but I’m not happy about the clustering of Bernie with Trump, regardless of his supporters supposed attitudes. He’s been elected several times and has a record of progressive leadership. He is categorically NOT a Trump analog on the left.

I hope I haven’t given that impression. i don’t view him that way. I think he’s while he sees a real problem in our society (inequality) isn’t seeing other issues that are adversely effecting our society. I just want him to be more of a team player.

73
goddamnedfrank  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:45:18pm
74
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:45:20pm

re: #61 Not a Sparkly Vampire

How is it that Jeb! is still in this race?

He’s not going to finish a humiliating fourth or fifth in S.C. until Saturday, that’s how.

75
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:45:52pm

He’s gotta point or two

76
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:46:13pm

FFS Bernie, would it kill you to take this seriously?

77
Romantic Heretic  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:46:47pm

re: #5 thedopefishlives

But it’s the only way to get a significant portion of them to act in concert. Otherwise it’s, “I’m busy that day. I’ve got golf. Gotta work shift then. Whatever.”

But war is exciting and Americans love excitement.

78
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:47:15pm

re: #31 De Kolta Chair

“The right of political campaigns to design crappy graphics shall not be infringed.”

[Embedded content]

Vote for Cruz! He’s as cracked as the Liberty Bell!

79
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:48:33pm

re: #75 De Kolta Chair

Hes gotta point or two

[Embedded content]

The last question is what i’ve been asking about. So, he doesn’t like the Dem establishment. How about you campaign for some people who do fit your mold then? THis is really beyond frustrating. I cannot believe someone who has been in elected politics so long could be so blind ot the importance of this for a President.

80
Romantic Heretic  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:48:41pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Sanders on immigration: “Hopefully we will have the cooperation of the US Congress.”

As long as we’re at it I want a unicorn that farts rainbows.

81
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:49:08pm

re: #31 De Kolta Chair

“The right of political campaigns to design crappy graphics shall not be infringed.”

[Embedded content]

I guess they really believe people can’t read cursive any more.

82
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:50:09pm

re: #80 Romantic Heretic

As long as we’re at it I want a unicorn that farts rainbows.

The line is that-a-way ->

83
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:50:26pm
84
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:51:49pm

Man, Amazon is getting kind of nutty. They’ve got my recommendations broken into almost 80 categories, 18 of which are books and another half dozen are variations on stereo gear. They’ve created extra steps to delete stuff you don’t care about and I haven’t found any way of deleting useless categories.. Somebody on LGF linked to some Amazon jewelry and now I’m getting recommendations for women’s clothing and shoes. The recommendations feature has become esentially useless.

Sorry about the rant. Carry on…

85
calochortus  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:52:03pm

re: #20 austin_blue

I no haz de cablez…

Me neither. I think it’s better for us this way.

86
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:52:11pm

Jeb! trying to be all war-monger-y… as an answer to a vet who is angry at Obama for some reason or another…

87
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:52:32pm

“safe zones”… yeah, right…

88
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:53:07pm

Apparently Jeb! wants to go to war with Russia over Syria…

89
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:04pm

MSNBC/Telemundo Twirling Debate Cam provided by Martin Scorcese.

90
GlutenFreeJesus  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:04pm

re: #83 jaunte

[Embedded content]

You’re not in Vermont anymore, Bernie.

91
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:05pm

re: #84 stpaulbear

Yeah, youtube is like that.
Watch one vid and bam! Your recs are filled with it out the wazoo.

92
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:18pm

Seriously, this is how Google auto fills, I just tried it o_O

93
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:54:18pm

Wow… Anderson actually asked a policy follow up question…

94
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:55:39pm

Some mormon-esque student whining about weed….

95
calochortus  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:55:48pm

re: #84 stpaulbear

Man, Amazon is getting kind of nutty. They’ve got my recommendations broken into almost 80 categories, 18 of which are books and another half dozen are variations on stereo gear. They’ve created extra steps to delete stuff you don’t care about and I haven’t found any way of deleting useless categories.. Somebody on LGF linked to some Amazon jewelry and now I’m getting recommendations for women’s clothing and shoes. The recommendations feature has become esentially useless.

Sorry about the rant. Carry on…

It was always pretty useless IMHO.

96
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:55:50pm

re: #70 Belafon

…The entire purpose of this is to turn her time as Secretary of State against her. A standard Rovian tactic that Democrats need to stop falling for.

I heard about it again today, at work, a defense contractor that requires everyone to understand how classification of materials works. There was no point in arguing with them, so I put my headphones on.

Facts don’t go away because they serve the opposition political situation well.

97
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:56:00pm

re: #92 The Vicious Babushka

That means a lot of people are asking the second question. o_O

98
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:56:45pm

Look. I said it downstairs and I’ll say it again: one of my biggest issues with the Sanders campaign is a lack of clarity on how we get from the overall goals and positions he takes to actually implementing them. I’m more than open to hear how this would happen. It’d do a lot to show me he’s a better candidate than I’ve seen so far.

Responding to questions about this with “but what about Hillary!!!” not only fails to answer my questions, it says to me that you can’t answer them and does nothing but reinforce my current impression of the candidate.

I’m willing to listen. But I want to hear positive, concrete steps that could be done even with the current Congress, since raising money for downticket races is something that only needs to be done later, apparently.

/sigh

Time to go get more writing done.

99
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:57:23pm

re: #97 Ziggy_TARDIS

That means a lot of people are asking the second question. o_O

An insight into the craziness that is the intertoobz.

100
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:57:43pm

re: #96 Great White Snark

Facts don’t go away because they serve the opposition political situation well.

It’s odd how the article manages to complain about cybersecurity by tying it to a story that has nothing to do with a failure of cybersecurity.

101
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:57:52pm

wow. just saw an early access for a new Warhammer 40k game. Going to be an MMO shooter where you fight for territory and defend it. So far they have the Space Marines (several factions), Chaos Space Marines, Eldar and Orks. Looks really promising.

102
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:57:56pm

Jeb! wants to “discover the brain”…

Yes, that was said in a Republican forum.

103
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:58:27pm

re: #89 De Kolta Chair

MSNBC/Telemundo Twirling Debate Cam provided by Martin Scorcese.

Seriously, WTF is up with that? Goddamn obsession with turning news into entertainment.

The all-news radio station in Philly does this crap, too. They’ve taken playing pop songs under certain stories to show how IMPORTANT and HUMAN INTERESTY they are.

Gah…

104
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 6:58:53pm

re: #102 freetoken

Jeb! wants to “discover the brain”…

Yes, that was said in a Republican forum.

I wish him the best of luck.
/trollolol

105
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:00:18pm

re: #102 freetoken

Jeb! wants to “discover the brain”…

Yes, that was said in a Republican forum.

Yeah good luck.

106
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:00:32pm

re: #102 freetoken

Jeb! wants to “discover the brain”…

Yes, that was said in a Republican forum.

Who’s brain?

107
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:00:41pm

re: #99 Not a Sparkly Vampire

Zodiac Killer Victims:

Confirmed[edit]
Although the Zodiac claimed 37 murders in letters to the newspapers, investigators agree on only seven confirmed victims, two of whom survived. They are:

David Arthur Faraday, 17, and Betty Lou Jensen, 16: shot and killed on December 20, 1968, on Lake Herman Road, within the city limits of Benicia. Coordinates: 38°5′41.61″N 122°8′38.24″W
Michael Renault Mageau, 19, and Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin, 22: shot on July 4, 1969, in the parking lot of Blue Rock Springs Park in Vallejo. While Mageau survived the attack, Ferrin was pronounced dead on arrival at Kaiser Foundation Hospital. Coordinates: 38°7′33.56″N 122°11′27.94″W
Bryan Calvin Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Ann Shepard, 22: stabbed on September 27, 1969, at Lake Berryessa in Napa County. Hartnell survived eight stab wounds to the back, but Shepard died as a result of her injuries on September 29, 1969. Coordinates: 38°33′48.29″N 122°13′54.43″W
Paul Lee Stine, 29: a cab driver who was shot and killed on October 11, 1969, in the Presidio Heights neighborhood in San Francisco. Coordinates: 37°47′19.47″N 122°27′25.54″W

Suspected[edit]
The following murder victims are suspected to be victims of Zodiac, though none has been confirmed:

Robert Domingos, 18, and Linda Edwards, 17: shot and killed on June 4, 1963, on a beach near Gaviota. Edwards and Domingos were identified as possible Zodiac victims because of specific similarities between their attack and the Zodiac’s attack at Lake Berryessa six years later. Coordinates: 34°28′11.20″N 120°10′7.14″W
Cheri Jo Bates, 18: stabbed to death and nearly decapitated on October 30, 1966, at Riverside City College in Riverside. Bates’s possible connection to the Zodiac only appeared four years after her murder when San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery received an anonymous tip regarding similarities between the Zodiac killings and the circumstances surrounding Bates’s death.[6] College coordinates: 33°58′19″N 117°22′52″W
Donna Lass, 25: last seen September 6, 1970, in Stateline, Nevada. A postcard with an advertisement from Forest Pines condominiums (near Incline Village at Lake Tahoe) pasted on the back was received at the Chronicle on March 22, 1971, and has been interpreted as the Zodiac claiming Lass’s disappearance as a victim. No evidence has been uncovered to connect Lass’s disappearance with the Zodiac Killer definitively.[7]

There is also a suspected third escapee from the Zodiac Killer:

Kathleen Johns, 22: allegedly abducted on March 22, 1970, on Highway 132 near I-580, in an area west of Modesto. Johns and her infant daughter escaped from the car of a man who drove them around the area between Stockton and Patterson for approximately 11/2 hours.[8] Junction 132/I-580 coordinates: 37°38′16.14″N 121°23′55.22″W

Ted Cruz’s birthdate:

(born December 22, 1970)

So, a sperm and fetus committed these murders, according to the internet.

108
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:00:47pm

Why do these supposedly ‘major networks’ have such crappy streams?

109
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:00:48pm

re: #106 stpaulbear

Who’s brain?

anyone’s, apparently

110
Targetpractice  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:01:26pm

re: #102 freetoken

Jeb! wants to “discover the brain”…

Yes, that was said in a Republican forum.

“Brain and brain! What IS brain?!”

111
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:01:40pm

Jeb! gets a softball question from an audience member… what a waste of a question… about how wonderful Jeb!’s wife is.

112
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:01:53pm

re: #107 Ziggy_TARDIS

I’m sure a page exists that says such a thing is possible.

113
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:02:22pm

re: #100 Belafon

It’s odd how the article manages to complain about cybersecurity by tying it to a story that has nothing to do with a failure of cybersecurity.

No failure (that we know of) only due to good fortune. Still a procedural fail. Hindsight is a bitch when it comes to security. The article is on point about the potential cyber breach. Especially in the context the author stuck with.

114
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:02:26pm

re: #111 freetoken

Jeb! gets a softball question from an audience member… what a waste of a question… about how wonderful Jeb!’s wife is.

Haven’t seen her on the campaign trail yet.

115
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:02:35pm

Jeb! just admitted he spoke Spanish… and then did it!

116
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:02:49pm

re: #114 Stanley Sea

Haven’t seen her on the campaign trail yet.

she’s in the audience, next to his mother.

117
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:02:53pm

re: #112 Not a Sparkly Vampire

I’m sure a page exists that says such a thing is possible.

Yes, we live in a society that believes the House of Windsor are shape shifting lizards. I still want to see Prince George’s long term tail certificate.

118
stpaulbear  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:02:56pm

re: #95 calochortus

It was always pretty useless IMHO.

There are a lot of good CDs in my music collection that I found out about via Amazon recommendations, but it’s gone downhill.

119
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:03:30pm

re: #116 freetoken

she’s in the audience, next to his mother.

Sorry, not watching. Something makes me think she is very reluctant to do this.

120
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:05:37pm

Jeb! trying so hard….

121
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:05:41pm

Jeb! tax plan is the usual Free Stuff For The Rich bullshit

122
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:06:12pm

re: #121 The Vicious Babushka

Jeb! tax plan is the usual Free Stuff For The Rich bullshit

[Embedded content]

Culture of debt, talk ot your brother.

123
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:06:22pm

Jeb! going after civil servants…

124
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:07:06pm

Jeb! is just going down his talking points now…

125
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:07:55pm

Jeb! now using magick words …. “common sense”…

126
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:07:57pm

Chuck Todd’s front-facing comb-over is getting more extreme with every appearance.

127
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:08pm

re: #123 freetoken

Jeb! going after civil servants…

Oh fuck him.

128
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:11pm

“10th Amendment…”

129
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:40pm

re: #128 freetoken

“10th Amendment…”

Yawn. Same amendment that was used to deny people civil rights for years, Jeb. Stop hiding behind the 10th’s skirt already.

130
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:55pm
131
DobermanBoston  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:08:56pm

Jeb! ready to take on the scourge of public sector employees…

132
Reality Based Steve  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:09:34pm

I don’t have cable TV or Satellite, so I guess no town hall(s) for me. Too lazy to try and find a pirate stream of it, and really not that motivated. I’m guessing it’s the usual rehash from both sides, nothing that will make or break me.

I’ll get the key points here anyhow.

RBS

133
calochortus  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:09:42pm

re: #118 stpaulbear

There are a lot of good CDs in my music collection that I found out about via Amazon recommendations, but it’s gone downhill.

I tend to be very specific in what I’m looking for when I shop on Amazon, which combined with the number of items that are gifts, means their recommendations have never been useful to me.

134
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:10:26pm

re: #65 Big Beautiful Door

Didn’t Trump just say something about it being disgraceful to question a person’s faith? I’m sure he did.

No, no, no. Trump said no one should question HIS faith. It is perfectly okay for a Great Man like Trump to ask anything he wants about the faith of others. That is why he will make such a great president, he is the only guy that can do a whole lot of great stuffs!

135
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:10:34pm

Jeb! talking about his Dad again… in an answer to what Jeb! does, Jeb! says he reads… about his Dad, of course…

136
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:10:51pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

Chuck Todd’s front-facing comb-over is getting more extreme with every appearance.

Constantly pains me every time Maddow sings Todd’s praises. I get that he’s her friend, but Todd always seems like he’s auditioning for Alan Colmes’ old seat on Hannity’s show.

137
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:11:06pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

Chuck Todd’s front-facing comb-over is getting more extreme with every appearance.

Auditioning for the “Rome” remake.

138
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:11:16pm

re: #132 Reality Based Steve

I don’t have cable TV or Satellite, so I guess no town hall(s) for me. Too lazy to try and find a pirate stream of it, and really not that motivated. I’m guessing it’s the usual rehash from both sides, nothing that will make or break me.

I’ll get the key points here anyhow.

RBS

I have the cable, I’m just refusing. LGF takes the poison for me.

139
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:11:21pm

re: #135 freetoken

Jeb! talking about his Dad again… in an answer to what Jeb! does, Jeb! says he reads… about his Dad, of course…

I guess Jeb really had fun during the 1991 Bring Your 38 year old son to work day.

140
DobermanBoston  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:11:59pm

Trump next.

I miss the days when it was Republican politicians who married their business associates’ daughters and Ozzy Osbourne who insulted the Pope.

141
bratwurst  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:12:13pm

LOL

142
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:12:37pm

Now… the main event….

143
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:13:10pm

undercards can be so boring

144
DobermanBoston  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:14:11pm

re: #143 freetoken

undercards can be so boring

Not if they have exclamation points.

145
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:14:21pm

re: #108 Not a Sparkly Vampire

Why do these supposedly ‘major networks’ have such crappy streams?

All their bandwidth goes towards toenail fungus ads.

146
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:14:37pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

I guess Jeb really had fun during the 1991 Bring Your 38 year old son to work day.

147
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:15:16pm

Sanders supporters are accusing the Clinton campaign of planting audience questions. No way.

Live stream of the audience at the KMA Event Center in Las Vegas

////

148
Reality Based Steve  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:15:22pm

re: #67 Barefoot Grin

I voted for HRC in the primary, but I’m not happy about the clustering of Bernie with Trump, regardless of his supporters supposed attitudes. He’s been elected several times and has a record of progressive leadership. He is categorically NOT a Trump analog on the left.

I had somebody I was talking to try and tell me that Trump and Sanders actually shared a lot of the same positions, were attracting the same groups of voters, and would be an unstoppable ticket together. The person seemed really sincere and serious, but I really hope that they were just trying to troll me. I just looked at them and said “Well, that’s an interesting concept. I’ll have to reflect on it. (because asking “How do they let you leave the house without your name and address on a card around your neck” didn’t seem like the proper course of action)

RBS

149
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:15:35pm

… polite applause…

150
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:07pm

re: #147 De Kolta Chair

Sanders supporters are accusing the Clinton campaign of planting audience questions.

[Embedded content]

///

Of course.

151
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:18pm

Trump pushes onto the “media” the snafu over the Pope…

152
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:35pm

re: #148 Reality Based Steve

I had somebody I was talking to try and tell me that Trump and Sanders actually shared a lot of the same positions, were attracting the same groups of voters, and would be an unstoppable ticket together. The person seemed really sincere and serious, but I really hope that they were just trying to troll me. I just looked at them and said “Well, that’s an interesting concept. I’ll have to reflect on it. (because asking “How do they let you leave the house without your name and address on a card around your neck” didn’t seem like the proper course of action)

RBS

You guys are killing it tonight!

153
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:35pm

“Awfully big wall at the Vatican…”

154
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:36pm

re: #147 De Kolta Chair

Sanders supporters are accusing the Clinton campaign of planting audience questions. No way.

[Embedded content]

////

155
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:17:56pm
156
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:18:54pm

re: #84 stpaulbear

How about looking at a 55 gallon barrel of sex lube (one time, honest!), forget all about it, then when your mom comes over, tell her you’ll show her how Amazon works. Yeah worse than worthless.

157
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:19:08pm

re: #155 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I cannot believe this is what passes for a candidate. The Republicans have gone from Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall to Mr. Trump, build up this wall in our backyard.

158
EPR-radar  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:19:12pm

re: #67 Barefoot Grin

I voted for HRC in the primary, but I’m not happy about the clustering of Bernie with Trump, regardless of his supporters supposed attitudes. He’s been elected several times and has a record of progressive leadership. He is categorically NOT a Trump analog on the left.

Sanders is making mistakes in his campaign. Trump is summoning and channeling all available evil in the Republican party.

Bit of a huge difference there.

159
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:19:43pm

the Pope… “has a lot of energy”..

160
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:20:57pm

re: #148 Reality Based Steve

I had somebody I was talking to try and tell me that Trump and Sanders actually shared a lot of the same positions, were attracting the same groups of voters, and would be an unstoppable ticket together. The person seemed really sincere and serious, but I really hope that they were just trying to troll me. I just looked at them and said “Well, that’s an interesting concept. I’ll have to reflect on it. (because asking “How do they let you leave the house without your name and address on a card around your neck” didn’t seem like the proper course of action)

RBS

Great response. We can take on Sanders’ and Clinton’s flaws in constructive debate without character assassination. And I certainly support calls for Sanders to repudiate any foul play by his side just as I will ask Clinton supporters to be alert for the kind of slimey insinuation Bill and Chelsea have tried to slip in. But, after all, it is politics. I know I am naive.

161
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:21:37pm

“We need to elect a Democratic Senate”

162
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:21:59pm
163
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:22:14pm

re: #113 Great White Snark

No failure (that we know of) only due to good fortune. Still a procedural fail. Hindsight is a bitch when it comes to security. The article is on point about the potential cyber breach. Especially in the context the author stuck with.

Here’s where I cry bullshit on the entire article:

There is no getting around a simpler, and at least on the surface, damning fact. A world leader maintained a private email server that stored top secret information.

The entire article is an attack on her with no real support, it just does it in a “look how concerned I am” kind of way. The server did not store top secret information. The server stored communications that were classified after the fact. I run across this at work, having to keep two public pieces of information separate specifically to keep them from potentially becoming classified.

His article is not about cybersecurity. It’s about how she supposedly failed as a SoS through the one thing that most people don’t understand. Because, here’s the thing, every time Kerry sends an email over the internet, he could be potentially violating national security, because information he has and may be talking about, that looks public, may in fact be classified later. But his information, travelling over the internet, could be read.

The only people who actually failed cybersecurity on this front were the Republicans in the House, who chose to release the emails.

The problem with classification of information is that the contents of a newspaper could easily be defined, in the aggregate, as having classified information.

Yes, I find this bullshit.

164
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:22:29pm

re: #160 Barefoot Grin

Great response. We can take on Sanders’ and Clinton’s flaws in constructive debate without character assassination. And I certainly support calls for Sanders to repudiate any foul play by his side just as I will as Clinton supporters to be alert for the kind of slimey insinuation Bill and Chelsea have tried to slip in. But, after all, it is politics. I know I am naive.

As much as I’ve been critical of Bernie, some of the stuff by the Clinton surrogates has bothered me too. It really frustrates me that O’Malley who I concede has his own flaws did not emerge as a stronger candidate or perhaps Biden though I understand why he decided to step down.

165
Barefoot Grin  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:24:50pm

re: #164 HappyWarrior

As much as I’ve been critical of Bernie, some of the stuff by the Clinton surrogates has bothered me too. It really frustrates me that O’Malley who I concede has his own flaws did not emerge as a stronger candidate or perhaps Biden though I understand why he decided to step down.

Absolutely. I was stunned by the inefficacy of O’Malley in the debates. I saw a lot of footage of him here in NH and he was in his element and at ease. The problem was that anyone who thought of voting for O’Malley was already for HRC. Bernie supporters, not so much.

166
Reality Based Steve  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:26:41pm

re: #156 Amory Blaine

How about looking at a 55 gallon barrel of sex lube (one time, honest!), forget all about it, then when your mom comes over, tell her you’ll show her how Amazon works. Yeah worse than worthless.

Back when I first started working as a computer trainer, before they would let me teach programming and DB admin / design, I had to do my time in hell, 2 years of Word / Excel / PowerPoint / etc. Probably the most enjoyable class was “Intro to the Internet”. Basic student profile were seniors who had their first computer, usually a gift, and just getting them the basics. It was a pretty fun class to teach, because you basically made it up to meet the needs as you go.

I remember one time, was teaching how to search for pictures. I said, I like to go fishing, lets look for pictures of people fishing. Some of you know where this is going…. Well, one grandma in the back made a small typo, looked for fisting. This is also in the days before things like “safe search”

I heard her go “Oh my goodness”, and I swear both her hands came up and covered her mouth. I go running back, see the problem and of course everybody is going “What’s happening”. I’m keeping my cool, going “nothing, just a little glitch”

I do have to say, after I got things under control, before I went back to my desk at the front, she pulled me down and whispered “I don’t think he’s going to find any fish in there”.

It takes a lot to throw me…. but I had to give the class a 5 minute break so I could go into the Inst lounge and laugh until tears came out my eyes.

RBS

167
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:26:54pm

re: #165 Barefoot Grin

Absolutely. I was stunned by the inefficacy of O’Malley in the debates. I saw a lot of footage of him here in NH and he was in his element and at ease. The problem was that anyone who thought of voting for O’Malley was already for HRC. Bernie supporters, not so much.

Yeah suppose you’re right. Agh. Oh well.

168
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:28:12pm

re: #166 Reality Based Steve

Now THAT is a precious moment.

169
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:28:24pm

Trump doing non-sequiturs out the ying yang…

170
gwangung  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:28:47pm

re: #165 Barefoot Grin

Absolutely. I was stunned by the inefficacy of O’Malley in the debates. I saw a lot of footage of him here in NH and he was in his element and at ease. The problem was that anyone who thought of voting for O’Malley was already for HRC. Bernie supporters, not so much.

Huh. Suggests all the complaints about Clinton clearing the field too early might be unfounded. If any candidate could have made inroads against Clinton, it would have been O’Malley…yet he whiffed.

171
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:29:12pm

re: #169 freetoken

172
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:29:55pm

re: #171 jaunte

and he followed that up by saying “but it’d probably be boring”.

173
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:30:35pm

re: #170 gwangung

Huh. Suggests all the complaints about Clinton clearing the field too early might be unfounded. If any candidate could have made inroads against Clinton, it would have been O’Malley…yet he whiffed.

What attracted to me to a prospective O’Malley candidacy is I saw that he taken an early lead as Maryland’s governor on some key issues. He was one of the first governors to support SSM for example. I saw him as someone perhaps to Clinton’s left and with some executive experience to boot but also more practical than Bernie.

174
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:30:41pm

re: #171 jaunte

Really, because he seems to be the political equivalent to Kanye West.

Speaking of which, after the creepy shit he has said about Taylor Swift, I really hope she has beefed up her security.

175
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:31:27pm

re: #174 Ziggy_TARDIS

Really, because he seems to be the political equivalent to Kanye West.

Speaking of which, after the creepy shit he has said about Taylor Swift, I really hope she has beefed up her security.

Nah he’s politics Creed. No, no Fred Durst.

176
Reality Based Steve  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:31:34pm

re: #171 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Donald, pro tip here… when even the Pope thinks your a bit of a douchecanoe, you’re a LOSER!

RBS

177
Not a Sparkly Vampire  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:31:39pm

Off to bed.
Maybe MSNBC will let me stream Maddow’s show tomorrow.

178
teleskiguy  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:32:12pm

I’m not watching the political stuff tonight. I just want to know one thing, has any of the Republican candidates brandished a gun yet?

179
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:32:18pm

The guy who just asked, or fed a line to, Trump about Obamacare wielded the mic like a seasoned pro. Actor?

180
BeenHereAwhile  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:32:36pm

re: #119 Stanley Sea

Sorry, not watching. Something makes me think she is very reluctant to do this.

To paraphrase TR:

JEB can either run the country or attend to his wife, but he cannot possibly do both.

181
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:33:09pm

I wonder whose idea it was to put Trump and Clinton town hall segments on at the same time?

182
Mattand  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:33:50pm

re: #177 Not a Sparkly Vampire

Off to bed.
Maybe MSNBC will let me stream Maddow’s show tomorrow.

I listen to it via podcast. Hit the Podcast section of iTunes and search for her name.

183
Amory Blaine  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:34:02pm

TR= Teddy Roosevelt?

184
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:35:05pm

re: #183 Amory Blaine

TR= Teddy Roosevelt?

Yeah, it’s based off this quote “I can be President or I can control Alice (his oldest daughter and a famous wild child) but I cannot be both.”

185
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:35:22pm

Trump saying there’s “no competition in health care.” Whether true or not, what can a president do about it? And why am I taking this guy seriously?

186
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:37:03pm

It amazes me that these jokers are the best that the Republican Party has to come up with. Makes me actually nostalgic for Dole.

187
Bill and Opus for 2016!  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:38:13pm

Listening on the MSNBC feed right now - one thing I have noticed is that Bernie Sanders got a LOT more softball questions than Hillary Clinton has. It’s almost like they are wanting to see her lose her cool over some of these questions - but she’s handled herself very well in what is a relatively hostile environment.

188
CuriousLurker  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:38:25pm

OT: Just wanted to drop this off before calling it a night.

From the article:

The dispatcher at the John Day 911 center hesitated when Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer radioed in for information about a roadblock after state police shot and killed Robert “LaVoy” Finicum. […]

The veteran sheriff had been left out of the planning for the stop on U.S. 395 about 20 miles north of Burns in Harney County and now he wanted his dispatchers to fill him in.

“I felt uncomfortable knowing that I had to relay vital and confidential information to someone who may not be trustworthy,” the dispatcher later told her supervisor.

The extraordinary scene of a police dispatcher distrusting the top law enforcement officer in the jurisdiction is part of a litany of allegations against Palmer that may now subject him to a state investigation. […]

189
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:39:42pm

re: #188 CuriousLurker

OT: Just wanted to drop this off before calling it a night.

[Embedded content]

From the article:

Wow. *Jaw hanging open*

190
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:40:02pm

Trump admitting that he might not get the vote of the guy who just asked him about Iraq and GWB…

191
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:40:11pm

re: #187 Bill and Opus for 2016!

Listening on the MSNBC feed right now - one thing I have noticed is that Bernie Sanders got a LOT more softball questions than Hillary Clinton has. It’s almost like they are wanting to see her lose her cool over some of these questions - but she’s handled herself very well in what is a relatively hostile environment.

What’s the quote about minorities and women having to do twice as much?

192
Kragar  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:41:11pm

re: #13 De Kolta Chair

193
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:41:54pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

It amazes me that these jokers are the best that the Republican Party has to come up with. Makes me actually nostalgic for Dole.

A part of democracy. They are reflective of their constituency. Crazy base, crazy candidates. It is why it is going to be very hard for them to ever turn the GOP around.

After all, look at that big tent they were building for this election.

It is down to a two pole pup tent and obviously that is only big enough to cover the belly of the Great Trump…with his smelly feet sticking out.

194
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:41:57pm

Easily the best thing you will read on Twitter tonight.

195
BongCrodny  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:42:06pm

re: #121 The Vicious Babushka

Jeb! tax plan is the usual Free Stuff For The Rich bullshit

Bush: Let’s create culture of savings, not culture of debt. His economic plan]

So in other words, Gov. Bush — stop shopping?

Gosh, I wonder what effect that would have on the economy.

196
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:42:06pm

Trump really dumping on GWB now…. this is interesting, I think Trump is really trying to do a pivot of the entire party here…

197
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:42:48pm

Invading Iraq being the worst decision ever made… which I suppose is the strongest statement any candidate has made so far.

198
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:43:07pm

re: #192 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Marcomentum? Is that what fifth place is called?

199
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:43:57pm

re: #193 ObserverArt

A part of democracy. They are reflective of their constituency. Crazy base, crazy candidates. It is why it is going to be very hard for them to ever turn the GOP around.

After all, look at that big tent they were building for this election.

It is down to a two pole pup tent and obviously that is only big enough to cover the belly of the Great Trump…with his smelly feet sticking out.

True, true but Trump holy shit. I really thought he’d finally go a bridge too far even for the GOP but here we are,.

200
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:44:47pm

“How can we trust you to do politics the way we want when you’re such an experienced politician?”

201
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:45:57pm

re: #200 jaunte

“How can we trust you to do politics the way we want when you’re such an experienced politician?”

Did someone actually ask that?

202
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:46:20pm

re: #201 Belafon

I’m paraphrasing.

203
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:46:39pm

Well, I’ll say this, Trump is the only one of the 6 to admit to a questioner that he (Trump) probably wouldn’t get the questioner’s vote… because Trump wouldn’t be moved from blaming GWB for making the “biggest mistake” in American history.

204
Reality Based Steve  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:48:25pm

Night gang. I put in a long day today at the shop, as we were getting ready to close one of the owners decided to rebuild one of his regulators. As it’s a brand and design type I haven’t worked with, I stayed to help and learn a bit. A bit more of a PITA than the ones that I’ve been doing, and requires some special tools only sold by the company that makes the reg. (BOO)

One thing that made it challenging is that he took it apart fast (he’s only done dozens of them), so after it was cleaned I didn’t have a good idea of how it was assembled on some of the small parts. I had to use the exploded diagram to piece it back. (I tend to take a lot of pics and drawings when I tear one down)

In any case, it was a good learning experience, and when we put it on the test bench it was much improved from where it had started.

Remember, If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

RBS

205
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:49:00pm

re: #163 Belafon

You called bullshit. Okay. What facts are in error?

I say the real point is that security is failing us all, and HRCs’ episode with just the potential breach teaches us what has to change.
To wit-

If you could choose between the government’s protections, however flawed, and a private server (and you were a world leader), which would you pick?…

A Teachable Moment?
There is no getting around a simpler, and at least on the surface, damning fact. A world leader maintained a private email server that stored top secret information.

Even though the information was declared top secret later, that later reclassification was for cause. We can get as mad as we want about how that course of events is so unfairly exploitable in an election year. It sucks, I get it.

None of that changes the risks taken and the lesson that need to be learned. What an unfortunate resonance indeed. Tim Cook resists a demand from the government to create an unprecedented intrusion tool for law enforcement, and HRCs’ unwise hardware for email choices can’t even be discussed because… election.

206
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:49:01pm

re: #202 jaunte

I’m paraphrasing.

OK. Thanks. I just get really annoyed at getting onto politicians for doing politics.

207
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:49:23pm

If Trump can actually win while openly calling GWB a liar and the Iraq War (II) the biggest mistake the US has made… then he will have succeeded in transforming the power structure of the GOP, because Trump will open the door for others to criticize too.

208
De Kolta Chair  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:50:16pm

re: #194 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Easily the best thing you will read on Twitter tonight.

Thank you!
209
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:50:42pm

re: #205 Great White Snark

You called bullshit. Okay. What facts are in error?

I say the real point is that security is failing us all, and HRCs’ episode with just the potential breach teaches us what has to change.
To wit-

Even though the information was declared top secret later, that later reclassification was for cause. We can get as mad as we want about how that course of events is so unfairly exploitable in an election year. It sucks, I get it.

None of that changes the risks taken and the lesson that need to be learned. What an unfortunate resonance indeed. Tim Cook resists a demand from the government to create an unprecedented intrusion tool for law enforcement, and HRCs’ unwise hardware for email choices can’t even be discussed because… election.

If he’d used Powell or Rice, I would have still called bullshit. Because, here’s the deal, the policy changed. It changed after the three of them were no longer in office.

210
BeenHereAwhile  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:52:30pm

re: #148 Reality Based Steve

I had somebody I was talking to try and tell me that Trump and Sanders actually shared a lot of the same positions, were attracting the same groups of voters, and would be an unstoppable ticket together. The person seemed really sincere and serious, but I really hope that they were just trying to troll me. I just looked at them and said “Well, that’s an interesting concept. I’ll have to reflect on it. (because asking “How do they let you leave the house without your name and address on a card around your neck” didn’t seem like the proper course of action)

RBS

Working my way thru college in the belly of the segregationist beast during the early 1960s, I was often carefully taught about the danger of civil rights, the illuminati, blood transfusions from n-[black] donors, and handed the latest edition of “The Thunderbolt.”

I found that a good measured response was, “you know, I never thought about that way before .”

211
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:54:12pm

Oh.. we might have klansman online now…

212
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:54:30pm

re: #197 freetoken

Invading Iraq being the worst decision ever made… which I suppose is the strongest statement any candidate has made so far.

He was for it before he was against it.

213
Ziggy_TARDIS  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:54:47pm

re: #197 freetoken

2nd Worst.

Countries and empire have invaded and held Iraq before (British, Ottomans, Abbasids, Rashidun, among others).

Vietnam was the worst we ever did.

Vietnam has never been conquered by anyone for a significant period of time, with the exception of the French for 90-100 years. They fought off the mongols successfully. After we left, they were able to fight a two front war against the Khmer Rouge and the PRC and get victory.

Our result was one of the best ever against the Vietnamese. We fought them to a draw in that war. How the furry blue hell did we think we were going to win, based on history?

It’s why attacking Iran is such a poor idea. They are tough, tend bounce back, and also incredibly difficult to invade.

214
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 7:59:09pm

“I like cleanliness”… in reference to eating at McDonalds…

215
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:01:03pm

re: #214 freetoken

“I like cleanliness”… in reference to eating at McDonalds…

To “not” eating at McDonalds?

216
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:01:35pm

re: #201 Belafon

Did someone actually ask that?

This is closer to the real question:

217
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:01:36pm

re: #215 Stanley Sea

To “not” eating at McDonalds?

Trump claims to like fast food.

218
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:02:17pm

re: #205 Great White Snark

You called bullshit. Okay. What facts are in error?

I say the real point is that security is failing us all, and HRCs’ episode with just the potential breach teaches us what has to change.
To wit-

Even though the information was declared top secret later, that later reclassification was for cause. We can get as mad as we want about how that course of events is so unfairly exploitable in an election year. It sucks, I get it.

None of that changes the risks taken and the lesson that need to be learned. What an unfortunate resonance indeed. Tim Cook resists a demand from the government to create an unprecedented intrusion tool for law enforcement, and HRCs’ unwise hardware for email choices can’t even be discussed because… election.

I still wonder if with a decent firewall system and a good maintenance person a single email server for her alone might well have been safer than her being on a larger server at the State Department and most likely tied to maybe a larger government system.

No, I am not an IT guy. I do wonder if she was off the grid a bit, how easy would it have been to hack into her system? Did anyone even know that she was on a private server? We do now. But what about then?

I also wonder if being on a larger server allows more ways in. Tight control of emails coming in with maybe only a couple people having access to the server might be easier to monitor and be more secure.

What say the IT people that know about security and hardware.

219
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:02:17pm

I want to go to a Trump rally, with a cup of green Jamba juice, & spill it all over him.

Whoops.

The result would go viral, I bet.

220
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:02:46pm

re: #209 Belafon

If he’d used Powell or Rice, I would have still called bullshit. Because, here’s the deal, the policy changed. It changed after the three of them were no longer in office.

Sure all 3 correctly face no legal issues for violating any policy, because the policy changed later. Got it. Thing is though the hacking threat grows with time. So back when, the threat was less so the risk less in proportion. It’s bullshit to hold this over her head as per the GOP breathless agitprop. Like Benghazi, the fact better security would have been better need not equate to a big cloud over her head. That writer simply should be able to say so without taking heat just because the GOP played it big as Fox.

221
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:03:15pm
222
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:03:47pm

re: #216 jaunte

This is closer to the real question:

[Embedded content]

When do they think Sanders started in politics?

223
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:05:15pm

re: #222 Belafon

When do they think Sanders started in politics?

That’s something I’d love to ask people who say they support him over her because “He’s fresh and a nice voice.”

224
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:05:45pm

re: #222 Belafon

When do they think Sanders started in politics?

I’ve heard he marched with MLK.

225
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:06:14pm

re: #216 jaunte

This is closer to the real question:

[Embedded content]

I feel bad for Clinton because that question I think is difficult to answer without coming off stand-offish or patronizing.

226
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:07:20pm

re: #220 Great White Snark

Sure all 3 correctly face no legal issues for violating any policy, because the policy changed later. Got it. Thing is though the hacking threat grows with time. So back when, the threat was less so the risk less in proportion. It’s bullshit to hold this over her head as per the GOP breathless agitprop. Like Benghazi, the fact better security would have been better need not equate to a big cloud over her head. That writer simply should be able to say so without taking heat just because the GOP played it big as Fox.

Do you really know all the writer’s motive for the article? It is something to wonder about due to it being an election too. Pretty hard to separate them, so questions are natural.

227
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:07:43pm
228
jaunte  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:07:56pm

re: #225 HappyWarrior

It’s hard to answer a stranger asking “why should I trust you?” But that’s what politicians have to do.

229
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:09:23pm

re: #228 jaunte

It’s hard to answer a stranger asking “why should I trust you?” But that’s what politicians have to do.

Yeah it is, I just think that one in particular is hard.

230
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:11:04pm

re: #227 Belafon

[Embedded content]

Obama’s been very conservative on EO’s, From what I gather, the reason for it is he wants to implement laws so it’s harder to overturn than you can with an EO. I remember he got some flak for showing a gradualist approach on the DADT repeal where he signed the repeal rather than EOing it because he felt it would be harder to gut a law repealing DADT than an EO.

231
ObserverArt  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:12:08pm

Later. Getting heavy eyes…

232
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:12:15pm

It would be interesting for someone to ask Sanders a similar question: “You describe yourself as being outside standard politics, but you’ve been in politics for 34 years. How are you supposed to be considered different?”

233
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:13:34pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

Yep, and so Feere’s trying to say “look at all the other stuff he did” without a comparison to what other presidents have done.

234
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:14:57pm

So, after sitting though 6 hours of this thing, I think it’s easy to see that Trump is the real master of dealing with people. It’s easy to realize why he leads - we already knew that - but there is something else, too. Trump knows how to be a celebrity.

By that I mean, even though he’s not a politician, he knows how to project a personality.

And what strikes me is that he’s not the worst monster of the bunch (who no doubt is Cruz) of the 6 that is left.

The old right wing are correct in claiming that Trump is not a “true conservative”, because by that they mean “true” = them.

Trump is a real populist. He wants to be adored, he wants to hear the clapping, the shouting of his name. Trump’s a populist nationalist. Anyone with a brain (for which Jeb! is still researching) can see that.

What really irks the likes of NRO and RedState and the like is that Trump can use the power of his personality and get more votes than all the sermons of Cruz (in Salem Communications’ world) or magick-word-ladened policy papers of Rubio (in NRO’s world) will ever be able to get.

Put simply, it’s jealousy.

The mouthbreathers complaining about Trump are simply jealous over Trump’s success.

I think Trump is pushing American politics in a dangerous direction, towards facile governance while stepping on the rights of humans everywhere.

Still, Trump is very skilled at people, and that’s going to keep him stomping on the GOP and I will not be surprised if he wins it all.

235
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:15:45pm

re: #218 ObserverArt

If I worked for the government of even just a big company with ordinary “confidential” security needs, not even HIPAA or credit card data, I’d do all my working email through work hardware unless otherwise requested by the boss. The more important, the more I would lean on my organizations resources.

Maybe theoretically it’s a good strategy to go with your own setup if you have seriously great IT people at hand. I’d guess she did and does. After all you got these guys with good resumes and the State Dept has whoever they want, and if anything goes wrong you get to say you did it all within policy and protocol. “Those damn hackers got it anyway”, nothing you could or should have done differently. Um, unless you did do it differently.

236
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:15:51pm

re: #233 Belafon

Yep, and so Feere’s trying to say “look at all the other stuff he did” without a comparison to what other presidents have done.

I think it’s actually quite remarkable how few he has given the Congresses he had. I think Obama by personal ideology is moderate to liberal but he’s got a strong pragmatist’s build when it comes to getting done what he wants done. If he had a reasonable Republican party to work with, he’d be hailed.

237
Kragar  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:16:34pm
238
Aye Pod  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:17:52pm

People in Britain are asking regarding the current season of ‘American Election’ - who is the actor who plays the part of ‘Ted Cruz’? He’s really got right under the skin of that bigoted lying sociopathic politician character he plays.

239
Great White Snark  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:18:41pm

re: #226 ObserverArt

Do you really know all the writer’s motive for the article? It is something to wonder about due to it being an election too. Pretty hard to separate them, so questions are natural.

I take him at his word. My bold of course, and one can understandably be annoyed at “not sure”

Having said all this, I’m not sure it means that Hillary Clinton would make a bad president. While Clinton’s mistake could be viewed as arrogant (at best) and de facto reckless, it is crucial for us to avoid finger-pointing at a time where virtually every digital mishap, data-security giveaway and metadata misfire should be looked at as being so many teachable moments.

The data insecurity quagmire is still in its Wild West infancy, and while it’s easy to throw stones in this glass house, it doesn’t serve to protect us from the dangers posed by hackers.

IOW she effed up as do we all so fix it.

240
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:18:44pm

re: #237 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Lame even for Cruz. If you’re going to attack him for not doing, you should go yourself. At least he was someone you supposedly admired but I guess fundraising is more important eh Ted.

241
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:19:01pm

re: #236 HappyWarrior

I think it’s actually quite remarkable how few he has given the Congresses he had. I think Obama by personal ideology is moderate to liberal but he’s got a strong pragmatist’s build when it comes to getting done what he wants done. If he had a reasonable Republican party to work with, he’d be hailed.

Plus he’s got that whole constitutional law thing going.

That was part of his deal with the ACA. He wrote it based on prior rulings that Scalia had made, thinking that, if Scalia acts rational, it’ll clear all the objections he’s brought up. Then Scalia acted like there was a black Democrat in office.

242
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:20:29pm

re: #238 Aye Pod

People in Britain are asking regarding the current season of ‘American Election’ - who is the actor who plays the part of ‘Ted Cruz’? He’s really got right under the skin of that bigoted lying sociopathic politician character he plays.

Hehe, I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this to you but I got two cousins that live in the UK. One’s visiting next month. I’m going try to find out what they’re thinking in her corner of England about all these guys. I know about the Scots hatred of Trump through her (her in laws live in Scotland) so I’ve heard about how he’s pissed off people with his golf courses and general shitty attitude.

243
Aye Pod  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:20:32pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Lame even for Cruz. If you’re going to attack him for not doing, you should go yourself. At least he was someone you supposedly admired but I guess fundraising is more important eh Ted.

Maybe it was like when Trump ‘decided’ not to visit Israel after all.

244
HappyWarrior  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:21:27pm

re: #241 Belafon

Plus he’s got that whole constitutional law thing going.

That was part of his deal with the ACA. He wrote it based on prior rulings that Scalia had made, thinking that, if Scalia acts rational, it’ll clear all the objections he’s brought up. Then Scalia acted like there was a black Democrat in office.

Right. I’m sure Obama would have loved a more ambitious health care reform plan but he no doubt remembered what happened in the 90’s. Scalia really showed what a hypocrite he was there.

245
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:22:19pm

Chuck Todd so needs a new ‘do.

246
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:22:32pm

re: #234 freetoken

ugh

247
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:23:39pm

Watching TYT pick apart the Democrats…

248
majii  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:23:54pm

re: #42 HappyWarrior

Most of us are not the fools some politicians think we are, not after dealing with racism, discrimination, and all of the other BS we’ve had to deal with (and are dealing with.) Being that I’m a black person in America, I get very offended, and outraged, when I hear Sanders say that he’s a better example of MLK than the president. He has no damn idea what it’s like to live in America while black. No f*cking idea. It offends the hell out of me when he aligns himself with Cornel West who still hasn’t forgiven the president because he didn’t get a special invitation to his inauguration in 2009 and decided he’d work against him. West has never really done anything for anyone—-not blacks, not poor whites, not LGBTQ Americans, not atheists, etc. His every effort has been to line his own pockets. If Sanders thinks most of us are going to flock to him in great numbers because he has Cornel West beside him, he’d better think again. None of the many blacks I know looks upon West as some kind of role model. We know him for exactly what he is. He’s just like his nephew Kanye West—-a narcissistic *sshole who thinks he’s smarter than everyone else when he’s not.

249
Aye Pod  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:25:13pm

re: #219 Stanley Sea

I want to go to a Trump rally, with a cup of green Jamba juice, & spill it all over him.

Whoops.

The result would go viral, I bet.

Don’t do it! You’d probably go down in a hail of bullets (and much worse) ;-)

250
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:27:01pm

re: #249 Aye Pod

Don’t do it! You’d probably go down in a hail of bullets (and much worse) ;-)

He’s not coming to California. I hope!

Fuck, if he gets that far. I’m looking into Cape Breton.

qz.com

251
Joe Bacon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:27:20pm

Ah, another day and I get yet another call from pollsters asking who I will vote for. I continue to lie and say I’m a solid Trump backer and nothing can sway me. And here come the push poll questions. GASP!

“Are you aware that Donald Trump doesn’t go to church?”

“Doesn’t matter, I back Trump”

“Are you aware that Trump has married 3 times?”

“So has Newt. So what?”

“Are you aware that Trump supports Planned Parenthood?”

“I’m a man, I don’t care about that. I love Trump because he’s a WINNER!”

“Are you aware that there is a candidate who will abide by the Constitution?”

“Are you talking about the guy who was born in Canada and won’t release his State Department Certification Of Foreign Birth? The guy that Trump is going to go to court to disqualify?”

CLICK.

Damn, I was just getting started…

252
Sherlock Hound  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:28:09pm

re: #248 majii

I’m white and I hate Cornel West. He called our president an Oreo. That slur could get me killed somewhere if I said it!

253
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:29:14pm

TYT… saying Hillary is on the verge of “losing this”… when in fact she’s about to win SC big.

254
Charles Johnson  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:31:07pm
255
Pawn of the Oppressor  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:31:08pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

Lame even for Cruz. If you’re going to attack him for not doing, you should go yourself. At least he was someone you supposedly admired but I guess fundraising is more important eh Ted.

I think he’s operating on the principle that the substance of attacks is not nearly as important as their frequency. It doesn’t matter what you say, or how it relates to the real world, as long as you’re attacking, you get fans.

Lunch table discussion at work today was interesting. I floated my Ted Is An Antichrist theorem and a friend of mine (moderate Catholic from South Texas, if it matters) immediately agreed, and had the same read I did, that Cruz is just a plain old fcking snake in the grass.

We also agreed that if there was a Devil’s choice between Cruz and Trump, that Trump would actually be a better President. I think deep down underneath all that narcissism, Trump might actually care about the country in his own weird little way. He could be worked with. Cruz, not so much…

256
Belafon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:33:24pm

re: #255 Pawn of the Oppressor

I think he’s operating on the principle that the substance of attacks is not nearly as important as their frequency. It doesn’t matter what you say, or how it relates to the real world, as long as you’re attacking, you get fans.

Lunch table discussion at work today was interesting. I floated my Ted Is An Antichrist theorem and a friend of mine (moderate Catholic from South Texas, if it matters) immediately agreed, and had the same read I did, that Cruz is just a plain old fcking snake in the grass.

We also agreed that if there was a Devil’s choice between Cruz and Trump, that Trump would actually be a better President. I think deep down underneath all that narcissism, Trump might actually care about the country in his own weird little way. He could be worked with. Cruz, not so much…

I have one great fear with Trump: He doesn’t take insults very well and obviously doesn’t know how to handle “no.”
I have one realistic fear with Trump: He’d sell Yellowstone if someone quoted the right price.

257
Joe Bacon  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:33:50pm

CNN has Don Lemon analyzing the debate.

That’s like Liberace analyzing punk rock…

258
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:34:09pm

re: #255 Pawn of the Oppressor

We also agreed that if there was a Devil’s choice between Cruz and Trump, that Trump would actually be a better President. I think deep down underneath all that narcissism, Trump might actually care about the country in his own weird little way. He could be worked with. Cruz, not so much…

That, according to pundits, is what the GOP leadership believe. In the end, if they are forced to choose between the two, they’d gladly pick Trump, exactly because they believe he can be swayed while Cruz is in an ideological no-man’s land.

259
freetoken  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:45:47pm

TYT spinning the idea, again, that the questions were planted by the producers…

260
Blind Frog Belly White  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:48:34pm

re: #258 freetoken

That, according to pundits, is what the GOP leadership believe. In the end, if they are forced to choose between the two, they’d gladly pick Trump, exactly because they believe he can be swayed while Cruz is in an ideological no-man’s land.

Ya know, I thought there was a famous story about Hitler, that the rich industrialists thought they could work with Hitler.

261
Stanley Sea  Feb 18, 2016 • 8:48:56pm

OK, must check @realscientists for the discussion tonight on #whalesex

262
DobermanBoston  Feb 18, 2016 • 9:18:17pm

re: #234 freetoken

So, after sitting though 6 hours of this thing, I think it’s easy to see that Trump is the real master of dealing with people. It’s easy to realize why he leads - we already knew that - but there is something else, too. Trump knows how to be a celebrity.

By that I mean, even though he’s not a politician, he knows how to project a personality.

And what strikes me is that he’s not the worst monster of the bunch (who no doubt is Cruz) of the 6 that is left.

The old right wing are correct in claiming that Trump is not a “true conservative”, because by that they mean “true” = them.

Trump is a real populist. He wants to be adored, he wants to hear the clapping, the shouting of his name. Trump’s a populist nationalist. Anyone with a brain (for which Jeb! is still researching) can see that.

What really irks the likes of NRO and RedState and the like is that Trump can use the power of his personality and get more votes than all the sermons of Cruz (in Salem Communications’ world) or magick-word-ladened policy papers of Rubio (in NRO’s world) will ever be able to get.

Put simply, it’s jealousy.

The mouthbreathers complaining about Trump are simply jealous over Trump’s success.

I think Trump is pushing American politics in a dangerous direction, towards facile governance while stepping on the rights of humans everywhere.

Still, Trump is very skilled at people, and that’s going to keep him stomping on the GOP and I will not be surprised if he wins it all.

The field is so poor that I tend to agree.

And even the conservatives who are furious about Trump are still clinging to their “deep bench” fantasy about said field, which enabled Trump’s rise in the first place.

263
Sophist, Vogon Poet Laureate  Feb 18, 2016 • 9:19:48pm

re: #255 Pawn of the Oppressor

We also agreed that if there was a Devil’s choice between Cruz and Trump, that Trump would actually be a better President. I think deep down underneath all that narcissism, Trump might actually care about the country in his own weird little way. He could be worked with. Cruz, not so much…

Trump is Camacho. Cruz is Greg Stillson.

264
Nojay UK  Feb 19, 2016 • 1:58:40am

re: #41 Belafon

That coloring doesn’t quite work. The bell looks like it was cut out of a once crumpled up piece of paper.

The Whitechapel Bell Foundry which made the Liberty Bell has offered to repair it free of charge. They want it returned in the original packaging, and the receipt.

265
steve_davis  Feb 19, 2016 • 4:45:29am

re: #55 De Kolta Chair

Heh

[Embedded content]

it’s even worse. Cthulhu wouldn’t eat humanity. He wouldn’t acknowledge that it exists. In other words, he’s Republican.

266
steve_davis  Feb 19, 2016 • 5:00:15am

re: #106 stpaulbear

Who’s brain?

Abbie Normal’s.


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