3 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:17:06pm |
re: #2 Sharmuta
I think we lost the blog for a few minutes.
Yep, I couldn't get it to load. Looks like we're back though.
4 | Bagua Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:17:25pm |
5 | erraticsphinx Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:18:25pm |
Aaaah, nice and calm.
Needed that.
And I'm out. Good night.
6 | freetoken Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:20:21pm |
Smog flirts with the pastels of creation... rain, can it wash away the sins of industrialized man?
Distant are the sails... and distant is our theme of the evening:
7 | Fenway_Nation Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:21:15pm |
re: #5 erraticsphinx
Fare thee well, aincent Egyptian mythological creature of the inconsistent persuasion.
/Good luck finding your nose!
9 | zephirus Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:31:06pm |
re: #4 Bagua
Music joke. I hope you like puns:
A C, an E-flat, and a G go into a bar. The bartender says: "Sorry, but we don't serve minors." So, the E-flat leaves, and the C and the G have an open fifth between them. After a few drinks, the fifth is diminished: the G is out flat. An F comes in and tries to augment the situation,but is not sharp enough.A D comes into the bar and heads straight for the bathroom saying,Excuse me. I'll just be a second. An A comes into the bar, but the bartender is not convinced that this relative of C is not a minor.Then the bartender notices a B-flat hiding at the end of the bar and exclaims: "Get out now! You're the seventh minor I've found in this bar tonight."The E-flat, not easily deflated, comes back to the bar the next night in a 3-piece suit with nicely shined shoes. The bartender says: "You're looking sharp tonight, come on in! This could be a major development." This proves to be the case, as the E-flat takes off the suit, and everything else, and stands there au naturel. Eventually, the C sobers up, and realizes in horror that he's under a rest. The C is brought to trial,is found guilty of contributing to the diminution of a minor, and is sentenced to 10 years of DS without Coda at an upscale correctional facility. On appeal, however, the C is found innocent of any wrongdoing, even accidental, and that all accusations to the contrary are bassless. The bartender decides, however, that since he's only had tenor so patrons,the soprano out in the bathroom, and everything has become alto much treble, he needs a rest - and closes the bar.
12 | checked08 Sun, Nov 29, 2009 11:59:15pm |
There's a new social movement on the horizon the Dems are cooking up, that might be even more powerful than the Tea Party protesters. The transcript follows:
Hey! - Let's all stick corncobs up our ass and march around the White House, stiff-legged, butt stuck way up in the air, white as can be, with signs that say "9/13 - yo' mama!" and "Where is Reagans Death Certificate?" We'll call ourselves the "cornholers" and we're gonna take back America from the Russians who crossed the Bering Straits while Palin was out signing books.
(Hattip:The Aristocrats)
14 | SixDegrees Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:20:15am |
re: #12 checked08
There's a new social movement on the horizon the Dems are cooking up, that might be even more powerful than the Tea Party protesters. The transcript follows:
(Hattip:The Aristocrats)
I guess that's what happens when the high schoolers are home on break.
15 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:38:38am |
Another musician joke:
A music historian heard that Beethoven had been buried with several of his unpublished manuscripts. He snuck into the family vault one night to try and recover them.
As he rounded a corner, he saw a light and heard a scratching sound. there he encountered Beethoven, sitting on his crypt, erasing manuscripts.
"Beethoven, what are you doing?" he asked.
"Decomposing," replied Beethoven.
16 | Bagua Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:02:13am |
17 | Bagua Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:10:35am |
My comment on the LGF Calendar site:
By bagua the Critic
The photographs are refreshingly candid views of the natural world that surrounds us, yet each from a perspective that builds a dream world out of our otherwise urban landscape.
Each month the viewers sees the world from a new perspective, reminding them of the beauty that can be found all around them .
An excellent Holiday Gift for all who appreciate beauty and nature.
The lovely photo on this thread would make a fine addition to next years edition.
18 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:15:08am |
Looks like the Market will be flat and squishy tomorrow. Fuck! I was hoping for a rambunctious rebound. :D
19 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:29:40am |
re: #18 Boogberg
I think my one and only stock broke the $20 per share mark last week. Got it at about the $13.50 mark earlier this year.
20 | Bagua Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:38:31am |
21 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:41:54am |
re: #19 Fenway_Nation
I think my one and only stock broke the $20 per share mark last week. Got it at about the $13.50 mark earlier this year.
That's delicious! Nicely done.
22 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:45:03am |
re: #18 Boogberg
Looks like the Market will be flat and squishy tomorrow. Fuck! I was hoping for a rambunctious rebound. :D
People are being overly cautious after the Dubai default, my best guess is that about 380 billion in capitalization has been lost so far over a 80 billion default. Sigh...
The UAE is not going to allow the default to stand so the whole thing is kinda silly, Abu Dhabi will pay if it has to in order to save it's credit rating. Banks across England and Germany that deal with them have seen their share prices drop and bond issues from Russia and Mexico have also suffered. Meanwhile the currency wars continue with the yen and dollar taking a beating, again...
23 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:49:07am |
24 | Bagua Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:54:05am |
re: #23 Boogberg
I've doubled my retirement account with BAC. I haven't lost money with that one yet. Although, If I sold now I would. The consensus is that it will double by the end of next year.
What's your cost basis?
25 | Spare O'Lake Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:54:56am |
Dalai Lama Urges World To Act On Climate Change
The world's leaders must prioritize the issue of global warming above all else, the Dalai Lama said Monday, adding that he feels encouraged by next month's climate change summit in Copenhagen.The revered Buddhist figure and Nobel Peace Prize winner, in Australia for a series of lectures on universal responsibility and the environment, said politicians must focus their energy on finding a solution to climate change.
"Sometimes their number one importance is national interest, national economic interest, then global (warming) issue is sometimes second," he said during a news conference. "That I think should change. The global issue, it should be number one."
The 74-year-old Tibetan spiritual leader said he couldn't predict what the outcome of the United Nations summit would be, but was heartened by the very fact that it is being held.
"I think it's very, very encouraging," he said.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
Well OK then...now a second Nobel Peace Prize winner is on board.
26 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:56:52am |
re: #24 Bagua
What's your cost basis?
About 16.20. But I've been raking it in since it was in the 7's. Protecting profit and all that. :D
27 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:59:03am |
re: #25 Spare O'Lake
Too bad he didn't come out in favor of building nuclear plants to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions. His endorsement might get some of the lefties onboard with it...
/
28 | AK-47% Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:03:34am |
re: #27 ausador
Too bad he didn't come out in favor of building nuclear plants to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions. His endorsement might get some of the lefties onboard with it...
/
It would make sense, as he believes in in reincarnation, his followers would be able to return to earth to help deal with the waste...
29 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:05:19am |
re: #21 Boogberg
That's delicious! Nicely done.
I actually played it safe and passed over a few other companies that would've gotten me much better returns in the same timeframe.
But this one was paying out a relatively secure 9% dividend at the time I bought it.
30 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:10:48am |
I bought gold at $400 and had to sell around $450 due to taxes and other things. I'd be sitting pretty right now if I didn't have to sell. Good mornin' Honcos!! Got my first good nights sleep in a week last night!!
31 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:11:28am |
re: #20 Bagua
plan? I didn't give it too much thought past 'buy low'...
32 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:15:21am |
re: #29 Fenway_Nation
I actually played it safe and passed over a few other companies that would've gotten me much better returns in the same timeframe.
But this one was paying out a relatively secure 9% dividend at the time I bought it.
Well the higher the potential return, the riskier it is. You know that. You could just as easily have lost your ass. Sounds to me like you did WAY good.
33 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:20:33am |
re: #30 Cannadian Club Akbar
Well...last September I was telling everybody I knew. 'Buy precious metals! For the love of god, scrape together whatever money you have and buy precious metals!'.
Of course, I barely had any money for a stock purchase myself...
34 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:20:37am |
re: #30 Cannadian Club Akbar
I bought gold at $400 and had to sell around $450 due to taxes and other things. I'd be sitting pretty right now if I didn't have to sell. Good mornin' Honcos!! Got my first good nights sleep in a week last night!!
Haah! Wait 'til the peak and sell it short. Or go long Dollars. :D
35 | Bagua Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:21:12am |
re: #31 Fenway_Nation
The other half of that is 'sell high'. As you're up 48% how much of that are you willing to give back?
36 | laZardo Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:21:27am |
I'd like to invest but the savings I have don't even meet the minimum limit. D:
37 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:22:53am |
re: #36 laZardo
I'd like to invest but the savings I have don't even meet the minimum limit. D:
To acquire gold you need 2 things:
Chloroform
Pliers.
//
38 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:24:31am |
I bought 10 year Mexican bonds right after the 1983 debt restructuring, one isue paid 13.88% and the next paid 17.56%. I was very happy, even more so that I didn't have to bring the money back here and pay capital gains on it. That money is still in South America earning more...err...somewhere or the other (shhhus Uncle Sam doesn't read this right?).
39 | Spare O'Lake Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:25:30am |
John Demjanjuk the former Nazi prison guard goes on trial today in Germany for WWII holocaust war crimes...finally.
Here's hoping he gets a downpayment on the justice he has for so long managed to evade.
40 | laZardo Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:25:35am |
re: #38 ausador
I bought 10 year Mexican bonds right after the 1983 debt restructuring, one isue paid 13.88% and the next paid 17.56%. I was very happy, even more so that I didn't have to bring the money back here and pay capital gains on it. That money is still in South America earning more...err...somewhere or the other (shhhus Uncle Sam doesn't read this right?).
As long as you're not supporting one of the dictatorships Uncle Sam doesn't like.
/ :B
41 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:26:12am |
re: #32 Boogberg
re: #35 Bagua
This was almost an impulse buy back when the DJI looked like it was going to crash through the basement.
I was looking at any number of stocks saying to myself 'No way they're going to be this low forever- people will still be using that company no matter how shitty the economy is'. Very unscientific on my part, I know...but my hunch was right.
Same with my prediction re: gold and platinum from last year, except I wasn't able to do tiddly diddly fiddly shit about that one.
42 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:28:00am |
re: #38 ausador
I bought 10 year Mexican bonds right after the 1983 debt restructuring, one isue paid 13.88% and the next paid 17.56%. I was very happy, even more so that I didn't have to bring the money back here and pay capital gains on it. That money is still in South America earning more...err...somewhere or the other (shhhus Uncle Sam doesn't read this right?).
We want our Mexican brothers and sisters to make money too. What the fuck do you think NAFTA was all about? :D
43 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:29:34am |
re: #42 Boogberg
We want our Mexican brothers and sisters to make money too. What the fuck do you think NAFTA was all about? :D
They do make money. Go to McDonalds near where I live and try ordering in English.
44 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:29:49am |
re: #36 laZardo
I'd like to invest but the savings I have don't even meet the minimum limit. D:
Interest rates for most of the 'safe' and traditional investing insturments are complete and utter crap right about now.
I'm thinking along the lines of US Savings Bonds or Certificates of Deposit from FDIC-backed financial institutions. Try and find something that's paying an APY higher than 2% right now...something that doesn't require a 5 to 10 year commitment, at least.
45 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:32:44am |
re: #43 Cannadian Club Akbar
They do make money. Go to McDonalds near where I live and try ordering in English.
Lol :D
San Diego, eh?
46 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:33:24am |
47 | laZardo Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:33:31am |
re: #44 Fenway_Nation
The majority of my US savings (about $2,000) are in a Chase-formerly-WaMu CD, I'll check up on the rates again. Other'n that the minimum required CDs here will leave me less than the minimum balance required to maintain my savings account w/o penalty for the time being.
And that's not counting a credit card, which my relatives insist I should get (with a low limit) so I can start building up my credit rating in case I need to get a house.
/ah, the pressures of my generation.
48 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:35:17am |
re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar
Florida. West Central.
Oh Christ on a pogo stick. That's even worse! :D
49 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:35:58am |
re: #48 Boogberg
Oh Christ on a pogo stick. That's even worse! :D
Didn't you used to live here? Orlando area?
50 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:39:23am |
re: #49 Cannadian Club Akbar
Didn't you used to live here? Orlando area?
Yeah I live just West of Orlando. I helped build Dr. Phillips High School.
51 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:40:28am |
re: #50 Boogberg
Yeah I live just West of Orlando. I helped build Dr. Phillips High School.
I lived about 3 miles from the airport years ago. Never again.
53 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:42:09am |
re: #47 laZardo
How long was it in there for? It might've actually dated back to when interest rates were appealing and competitve.
I remember getting a few hundred dollars worth of US Savings bonds last year back when the interest rates were anywhere in the nieghborhood from 3% to 6.2%...
One of the nearby banks had a promotional 1-year CD with a 5% interest rate that I took advantage of, but that matured earlier this year.
55 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:44:29am |
56 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:45:39am |
re: #55 Cannadian Club Akbar
Nothing good can ever come from having a single-digit itnerstate running through your city/
57 | laZardo Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:45:51am |
re: #53 Fenway_Nation
I had a 3-year CD starting in 2006 maturing early 2009. I had it auto-rolled into the same term (at probably less than 2%) seeing as how I was going to have to end up getting my bachelor's degree here.
58 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:46:41am |
re: #47 laZardo
See if you can get a basic (not "blue") American Express card. You have to pay it off in full every month so it isn't like your going to build up debt but you will build an excellant credit rateing. That is how I started, next thing I knew I had offers from all the credit card companies pouring in.
Nowadays if I went out and charged everything I have up to the max I'd be about $130,000 in debt, nice to have I guess but only if you don't use it. I have seen too damn many people sucked into the credit card debt black hole, really you should just save for things and pay cash, you can't get into trouble that way. To build a excellant credit rating you still do that, you just charge it to the card and then pay it off in full at the end of the month instead.
59 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:47:53am |
60 | laZardo Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:48:18am |
re: #58 ausador
I don't know if they have American Express in the Philippines. >_> The bank my savings are at requires a P10,000 minimum deposit and I've got about P12K now...but there's a P3K minimum savings requirement.
61 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:49:37am |
re: #58 ausador
I started with a secured CC with a $400 limit years ago. When I got laid off I had a Chase Platinum and an AMEX Platinum. Not no more.
62 | Fenway_Nation Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:51:28am |
You could always try Israeli bonds...
/The Mazel Tov Bonds look more my speed given my current status and the like.
63 | laZardo Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:57:08am |
re: #62 Fenway_Nation
I refuse to directly finance oppression!
///
/downloading information forms now
64 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:57:21am |
re: #56 Fenway_Nation
Nothing good can ever come from having a single-digit itnerstate running through your city/
Bullshit! Me and my buddy saw "Beatlemania" at the Peabody Orlando about a million years ago. That dance floor was a hoppin'! :D
65 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:58:09am |
re: #64 Boogberg
Bullshit! Me and my buddy saw "Beatlemania" at the Peabody Orlando about a million years ago. That dance floor was a hoppin'! :D
Did you get to see the ducks march into the fountain?
66 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:01:49am |
Cops have a house with Clemmens in it surrounded.
69 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:04:08am |
re: #65 Cannadian Club Akbar
Did you get to see the ducks march into the fountain?
No, but we did do some skinnydipping in one of the small pools they have. We pretended we were rock stars when management confronted us. They actually bought it for about 30 minutes. :D
70 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:04:42am |
re: #66 MandyManners
Cops have a house with Clemmens in it surrounded.
I heard hints that Huckabee might have set him free but can't find a link. My radio will tell me more in a few minutes. And not trying to be a rumor monger here.
71 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:06:01am |
re: #70 Cannadian Club Akbar
I heard hints that Huckabee might have set him free but can't find a link. My radio will tell me more in a few minutes. And not trying to be a rumor monger here.
Ummm...are you joking?
72 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:06:36am |
In 1989, Clemmons, then 17, was convicted in Little Rock for aggravated robbery. He was paroled in 2000 after Huckabee commuted a 95-year prison sentence. Huckabee, who was criticized during his run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008 for granting many clemencies and commutations, cited Clemmons' youth. Clemmons later violated his parole, was returned to prison and released in 2004.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
73 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:10:32am |
re: #72 Cannadian Club Akbar
From article...
Clemmons has an extensive violent criminal history from Arkansas. He also recently was arrested and charged in Washington state for assaulting a police officer, and second-degree rape of a child. Using a bail bondsman, he posted $150,000 — only $15,000 of his own money — and was released from jail last week.
74 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:14:24am |
re: #72 Cannadian Club Akbar
Look at the previous thread.
75 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:16:16am |
re: #74 MandyManners
Look at the previous thread.
I ran right passed it this morning. Was in bed early last night, so missed it then.
76 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:17:56am |
re: #61 Cannadian Club Akbar
I started with a secured CC with a $400 limit years ago. When I got laid off I had a Chase Platinum and an AMEX Platinum. Not no more.
Chase isn't bad, at least they gave me call when I bought my last truck, "We were just inquiring because we are showing a charge for $29,500 here and your card has been inactive for almost a year."
"Yeah, I bought a truck."
"Well we saw that, we just wanted to check that you had authorized the charge."
"Yes and I already mailed you a check for the balance."
"No sir, I mean...we weren't asking for payment we just wanted to make sure that you were the one using the card."
"Yes it was me, and yes your being paid in full before interest accrues on my account, but thank you for verifying the purchase with me."
Now a little snotty sounding, "Your welcome sir and thank you for doing your business with Chase."
(Yes I laughed after she hung up)
78 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:18:33am |
re: #75 Cannadian Club Akbar
I ran right passed it this morning. Was in bed early last night, so missed it then.
More coffee?
79 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:19:28am |
re: #76 ausador
Chase called me when I bought silk sheets online. Big change from my regular bar purchases, I guess.:)
80 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:19:47am |
re: #76 ausador
Chase isn't bad, at least they gave me call when I bought my last truck, "We were just inquiring because we are showing a charge for $29,500 here and your card has been inactive for almost a year."
"Yeah, I bought a truck."
"Well we saw that, we just wanted to check that you had authorized the charge."
"Yes and I already mailed you a check for the balance."
"No sir, I mean...we weren't asking for payment we just wanted to make sure that you were the one using the card."
"Yes it was me, and yes your being paid in full before interest accrues on my account, but thank you for verifying the purchase with me."
Now a little snotty sounding, "Your welcome sir and thank you for doing your business with Chase."
(Yes I laughed after she hung up)
Why so harsh on the CSR? She was looking out for your best interest!
81 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:20:59am |
82 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:21:22am |
re: #78 MandyManners
More coffee?
Was early. I have 3 email accounts and about 5 other things to check in the AM. My bad.
83 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:23:30am |
84 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:24:34am |
re: #81 ausador
Thats harsh?
You should hear what I tell amex then!
///
What if Chase had not called you and it turned out that you had lost your card and the finder had got a new truck on your dime?
85 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:25:00am |
re: #82 Cannadian Club Akbar
Was early. I have 3 email accounts and about 5 other things to check in the AM. My bad.
Nothing bad about it. Shit happens.
86 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:28:34am |
re: #84 MandyManners
What if Chase had not called you and it turned out that you had lost your card and the finder had got a new truck on your dime?
I wasn't mean, I was polite, she was just pissed off because I'm one of those "deadbeats" who always pays their charges off in full every month. They don't really make anything off me but the retailer percentage fees which I doubt even covers their overhead.
What did I say that was wrong? I did wait until she was off the line to laugh at her after all. ;)
87 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:31:32am |
re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar
Chase called me when I bought silk sheets online. Big change from my regular bar purchases, I guess.:)
You had a hot date?
In bed?
88 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:32:55am |
re: #87 ausador
You had a hot date?
In bed?
I couldn't get a date in a woman's prison with a handful of pardons!!
///
89 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:33:18am |
re: #86 ausador
I wasn't mean, I was polite, she was just pissed off because I'm one of those "deadbeats" who always pays their charges off in full every month. They don't really make anything off me but the retailer percentage fees which I doubt even covers their overhead.
What did I say that was wrong? I did wait until she was off the line to laugh at her after all. ;)
It might've been nice to thank her for looking out for you.
90 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:40:28am |
*sigh*
It's not my place to bust anyone's chops, ausador. I apologize.
91 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:46:24am |
I started to say:
Since when? I got some chops you can bust babe...
Then I thought - Maybe not. :D
92 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:46:58am |
93 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:50:16am |
re: #91 Boogberg
I started to say:
Since when? I got some chops you can bust babe...
Then I thought - Maybe not. :D
Is that what you kiss are calling it nowadays?
94 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:51:21am |
95 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:51:52am |
Anyway...
Cops: Suspect in officer killings may be dead
SEATTLE - A suspect in the coffee-shop slayings of four officers is holed up at a Seattle house, wounded and possibly dead, police said Monday.
Pierce County Sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer said negotiators were trying to communicate with Maurice Clemmons, 37.
Authorities have been seeking Clemmons in the deaths of four Lakewood police officers gunned down in a Parkland coffee shop on Sunday morning. They believe the gunman may have been wounded by one of the victims.
Late Sunday, they began to focus on the Seattle house, about 30 miles from the crime scene.
Negotiators used loudspeakers and explosions to try to prod Clemmons from hiding. Later, gunshots rang through the neighborhood.
Officers surrounding the house shone lights on the house and called out to Clemmons by name, saying: "Mr. Clemmons, I'd like to get you out of there safely. I can tell you this, we are not going away."
Any response from inside the house was inaudible from the vantage of a photographer for The Associated Press. But shortly thereafter, police began using sirens outside the house, and there were several loud bangs before the negotiator resumed speaking.
Again with almost completely baseless assumptions being reported as news, I thought these people went to college for this shit for goodness sake. :(
96 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:53:01am |
re: #90 MandyManners
re: #92 ausador
Credit Card companies have called me several times over the years alerting me of 'unusual" activity on one of my cards
I both appreciate that they do AND am somewhat annoyed that they monitor "me" that closely
That stated, I am always nice to the person that calls
REASON,,,(s)he has ALL my info and if (s)he ever gets fired or walsk out the door pissed off I do not want them walking out remembering "that ashole" they talked to on the phone last week!
97 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:54:15am |
re: #95 ausador
Anyway...
Cops: Suspect in officer killings may be dead
Again with almost completely baseless assumptions being reported as news, I thought these people went to college for this shit for goodness sake. :([Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
It's a breaking story so the reporters are gonna' go with what they get from the cops without verifying because there is no way to verify.
99 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:55:44am |
re: #95 ausador
Cops: Suspect in officer killings may be dead
negotiators were trying to communicate with Maurice Clemmons, 37.
Time to call in Miss Chloe or James Van Praagh!!
100 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:56:51am |
re: #99 sattv4u2
Cops: Suspect in officer killings may be dead
negotiators were trying to communicate with Maurice Clemmons, 37.
Time to call in Miss Chloe or James Van Praagh!!
Why not just go with a Magic 8-Ball?
101 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:57:43am |
102 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:58:12am |
103 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 3:59:59am |
Where are the damn ninjas when you need them?
104 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:01:14am |
re: #103 ausador
I'm right behind you. Melted into the shadows. Waiting for your bidding.
105 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:02:25am |
106 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:03:00am |
re: #102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Maybe Huckabee can help.
From his statement released yesterday, he's backing way away from this.
107 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:03:11am |
109 | TheMatrix31 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:05:29am |
I'm shocked people still gave a shit about Huckabee anyway. Guy was worthless to begin with, and it shows here with this situation.
110 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:05:55am |
I guess they have all gone commercial now, hiding in plain sight in internet gag photos and stuff. But where are they when we want them to sneak up on a murderer, no where around, thats where.
Next time I'm rooting for the pirates, they have cooler clothes and eye patches and parrots and stuff anyway.
111 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:06:06am |
112 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:08:22am |
re: #109 TheMatrix31
I'm shocked people still gave a shit about Huckabee anyway. Guy was worthless to begin with, and it shows here with this situation.
He had lost me completely even before he started talking about changing the constitution to make this a theocracy. The guy is dangerous...
113 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:09:09am |
114 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:11:09am |
re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
His Willie Horton.
IIRC, Horton was released after committing a murder but, Clemmens was released after committing aggravated robbery.
115 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:13:07am |
116 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:15:23am |
117 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:16:37am |
re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What good is one boob going to do ya?!
With one that size why do you need another one?
118 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:16:57am |
HOLD THE WEDDIN
I stepped away for a moment and missed sumfin
What does Huckabee have to do with the cop killer!?!?!
119 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:17:50am |
re: #118 sattv4u2
Dude. Check out the previous thread.
120 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:18:01am |
re: #118 sattv4u2
HOLD THE WEDDIN
I stepped away for a moment and missed sumfin
What does Huckabee have to do with the cop killer!?!?!
I made an ass of myself earlier with the same question.
121 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:18:07am |
re: #116 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What good is one boob going to do ya?!
Yeah, about three seconds after I hit "post" I had the same thought.
122 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:18:21am |
I once dated a woman whose boobs were on her back
She wasn't much to look at but REAL fun to slow dance with!
123 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:18:39am |
re: #117 ausador
With one that size why do you need another one?
You like to fondle boobs? or you wanna mountain climb...
124 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:18:58am |
re: #119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Dude. Check out the previous thread.
oh ,,, K ,,, mayber later
Heading back to beddy by!
125 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:19:20am |
re: #115 MandyManners
I wish I had half her chest.
I'll take half her chest and all o' you, babe! :D
126 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:19:55am |
127 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:20:07am |
128 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:23:40am |
129 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:26:51am |
130 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:26:58am |
I knew that some people say Import cars are safer than American made ones but this is taking things too far...
/
Ex-autoworker goes on trial for 27,900 deaths
MUNICH - John Demjanjuk goes on trial Monday on charges of being an accessory to the murder of 27,900 Jews at a Nazi death camp, opening the final chapter of some 30 years of efforts to prosecute the retired Ohio autoworker.
Probably the last of the big war crime trials, everyone else has died already, good riddance to bad rubbish.
131 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:28:11am |
re: #130 ausador
I knew that some people say Import cars are safer than American made ones but this is taking things too far...
/
Ex-autoworker goes on trial for 27,900 deaths
Probably the last of the big war crime trials, everyone else has died already, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Today, eh? About time.
133 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:31:41am |
134 | Bloodnok Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:33:07am |
135 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:35:16am |
re: #132 MandyManners
Will they send up the predator drones up in case he turns out to be a hostile?
136 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:35:19am |
re: #133 Cannadian Club Akbar
I used to send that link to my neices and nephews.
Are they too old now?
I think this is the last year that The Kid will believe in Santa.
137 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:37:23am |
re: #135 ausador
Will they send up the predator drones up in case he turns out to be a hostile?
Somewhere I have packed away a cartoon after the Soviets shot down that KAL flight IN 1983. It shows a MIG going after Santa.
138 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:37:34am |
re: #136 MandyManners
Are they too old now?
I think this is the last year that The Kid will believe in Santa.
Yep. To old. I remember the year, when I was a sweet little lad, I had to call bullshit on my parents.:)
139 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:38:34am |
re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yep. To old. I remember the year, when I was a sweet little lad, I had to call bullshit on my parents.:)
I was too scared to call it on mine. I didn't want the presents to stop.
140 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:39:35am |
re: #136 MandyManners
Are they too old now?
I think this is the last year that The Kid will believe in Santa.
When my son asked me, he phrased it as a declarative. So, I told him the truth. I also told him that he had a very important big-boy responsibility... that if he meets any kid who believes in Santa, that the kid should still believe after he talks to them.
He never ruined it for anybody that I know of.
141 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:41:03am |
re: #140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
When my son asked me, he phrased it as a declarative. So, I told him the truth. I also told him that he had a very important big-boy responsibility... that if he meets any kid who believes in Santa, that the kid should still believe after he talks to them.
He never ruined it for anybody that I know of.
Ah, yes. The polite fiction. Good for you.
142 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:44:04am |
143 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:44:13am |
Hurricane season ends today. Now I give away my hurricane food away.
144 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:44:55am |
re: #140 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
When my son asked me, he phrased it as a declarative. So, I told him the truth. I also told him that he had a very important big-boy responsibility... that if he meets any kid who believes in Santa, that the kid should still believe after he talks to them.
He never ruined it for anybody that I know of.
That's the most mature way to handle it I've ever seen. Thanks very much for that; I'm going to use that myself.
Smart man.
145 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:45:00am |
I liked "The House that Jack Built" when I was a boy.
146 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:46:40am |
re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hurricane season ends today. Now I give away my hurricane food away.
What kind of food is hurricane food?
147 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:46:48am |
re: #144 Obdicut
That's the most mature way to handle it I've ever seen. Thanks very much for that; I'm going to use that myself.
I was vamping, came like a bolt from the blue. But, it worked. So, yay me!
148 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:49:48am |
re: #146 MandyManners
What kind of food is hurricane food?
Canned goods, mostly. Also fruit/granola bar type things. I save my water for my sister for her yearly visit from Canada.
149 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:51:19am |
re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar
Canned goods, mostly. Also fruit/granola bar type things. I save my water for my sister for her yearly visit from Canada.
Do people still have hurricane parties?
150 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:51:19am |
Aww...there goes my four weeks of bandwidth, my Aunt wants me to grab "All creatures great and small" for her off torrent. Seven seasons, 87 episodes, three christmas specials, 32.13Gb on the only live torrents I can find for it. If only it didn't take at least four times as long to upload that much as to download it, damn you upload cap!
Oh well I suppose it will make an extremely cheap Christmas present if all I have to buy are the DVDs to copy it to. But in the meantime there goes my Hulu watching and I'm also going back to waiting five minutes for a one minute youtube video to load. I really need to buy more bandwidth...
151 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:53:44am |
re: #149 MandyManners
Do people still have hurricane parties?
In '04 we had one thinking the thing had passed. It didn't. It stalled. I was outside smoking, saying WTF. Anything CAT 2 or less really isn't a big deal, except for some flooding.
152 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:55:09am |
re: #150 ausador
Aww...there goes my four weeks of bandwidth, my Aunt wants me to grab "All creatures great and small" for her off torrent. Seven seasons, 87 episodes, three christmas specials, 32.13Gb on the only live torrents I can find for it. If only it didn't take at least four times as long to upload that much as to download it, damn you upload cap!
Oh well I suppose it will make an extremely cheap Christmas present if all I have to buy are the DVDs to copy it to. But in the meantime there goes my Hulu watching and I'm also going back to waiting five minutes for a one minute youtube video to load. I really need to buy more bandwidth...
How does one buy more bandwidth? Isn't that part of your ISP package?
153 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:55:50am |
re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar
In '04 we had one thinking the thing had passed. It didn't. It stalled. I was outside smoking, saying WTF. Anything CAT 2 or less really isn't a big deal, except for some flooding.
I'd rather live in a hurricane zone than tornado alley. You can see a hurricane coming for days.
154 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:57:21am |
re: #153 MandyManners
Always thought of that as living on the railroad tracks.
155 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:58:32am |
Pres. Bush announced The Surge from the Oval Office. BHO is announcing the increase in troops in a speech at West Point.
156 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:58:53am |
re: #154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Always thought of that as living on the railroad tracks.
It can be exciting!
157 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 4:59:34am |
re: #153 MandyManners
I'd rather live in a hurricane zone than tornado alley. You can see a hurricane coming for days.
I caught Stormchasers on discovery or NGC last night. What a stupid show. They set themselves up to intercept a tornado, then act suprised that one is bearing down on them. Idiots.
158 | Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:00:22am |
re: #157 Cannadian Club Akbar
Like a dog chasing a car...
159 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:01:01am |
160 | ghazidor Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:03:15am |
re: #152 MandyManners
How does one buy more bandwidth? Isn't that part of your ISP package?
They have faster plans than the one I am on, but it really wouldn't help that much in reality. If your downloading something twentyfour seven at 60-80 KBs or more depending on the seeds it slows anything else your trying to download even though you theoretically have more bandwidth. Besides the upload cap doesn't change regardless of the download plan from my ISP and that is what really slows you down, if your upload is maxed constantly none of the other programs that need two way communication work as quickly as they should.
Since I am honorable about my torrent behaviour and always upload more than I download I figure I'll be at this one for right around a month before I can declare it done.
161 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:06:07am |
re: #156 MandyManners
It can be exciting!
So can living in Tornado Alley. You just have to know how to play it. Personally, I always found the unpredictability rather exciting.
162 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:06:29am |
re: #157 Cannadian Club Akbar
I caught Stormchasers on discovery or NGC last night. What a stupid show. They set themselves up to intercept a tornado, then act suprised that one is bearing down on them. Idiots.
Adrenaline junkies.
163 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:07:21am |
re: #160 ausador
They have faster plans than the one I am on, but it really wouldn't help that much in reality. If your downloading something twentyfour seven at 60-80 KBs or more depending on the seeds it slows anything else your trying to download even though you theoretically have more bandwidth. Besides the upload cap doesn't change regardless of the download plan from my ISP and that is what really slows you down, if your upload is maxed constantly none of the other programs that need two way communication work as quickly as they should.
Since I am honorable about my torrent behaviour and always upload more than I download I figure I'll be at this one for right around a month before I can declare it done.
I have no idea what you just said but, I have a sneaking suspicion it's about tech stuff.
164 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:08:00am |
re: #162 MandyManners
Adrenaline junkies.
No, more like Drama Queens. And don't get me wrong, I love what they're doing as far as the science goes, but they played it up for the cameras.
165 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:08:11am |
re: #161 thedopefishlives
So can living in Tornado Alley. You just have to know how to play it. Personally, I always found the unpredictability rather exciting.
What I don't like is the increase in my BP and pulse rate when the sirens go off. It's like main-lining meth.
166 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:08:57am |
re: #164 Cannadian Club Akbar
No, more like Drama Queens. And don't get me wrong, I love what they're doing as far as the science goes, but they played it up for the cameras.
They might really be that excitable but, I can see them hamming it up for the camera.
167 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:11:05am |
re: #165 MandyManners
What I don't like is the increase in my BP and pulse rate when the sirens go off. It's like main-lining meth.
I'll admit, I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie. The only thing I don't really do well is heights, which sucks from the standpoint of my wife loves roller coasters and the like. I do not.
168 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:12:20am |
re: #167 thedopefishlives
I'll admit, I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie. The only thing I don't really do well is heights, which sucks from the standpoint of my wife loves roller coasters and the like. I do not.
I can ride the biggest roller coaster, but get nervous on a step ladder.
169 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:12:27am |
re: #167 thedopefishlives
I'll admit, I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie. The only thing I don't really do well is heights, which sucks from the standpoint of my wife loves roller coasters and the like. I do not.
PTSD keeps one on enough of an edge with the fligh-or-fight/hypervigilance. I don't need to add to it.
170 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:14:58am |
re: #169 MandyManners
PTSD keeps one on enough of an edge with the fligh-or-fight/hypervigilance. I don't need to add to it.
True enough. I'm young and stupid, I can get away with it. I've lived through two or three tornadoes already in my short lifetime.
re: #168 Cannadian Club Akbar
I can ride the biggest roller coaster, but get nervous on a step ladder.
I'm getting a lot better about it, but I still get really out of sorts sometimes with certain high places. I had an interview in a mid-level skyscraper in downtown Minneapolis a couple of years ago, and I couldn't go near the windows.
171 | abolitionist Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:16:08am |
re: #150 ausador
[snip] But in the meantime there goes my Hulu watching and I'm also going back to waiting five minutes for a one minute youtube video to load. I really need to buy more bandwidth...
With utorrent I believe the options for limiting bandwidth usage are pretty versatile. I think you can even specify limits according to time of day and day of the week, for routine operations.
172 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:17:06am |
re: #170 thedopefishlives
I have been on floor 102 of the Empire State building. The guy running the elevator insinuated that I was afraid of heights.
174 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:23:45am |
re: #171 abolitionist
With utorrent I believe the options for limiting bandwidth usage are pretty versatile. I think you can even specify limits according to time of day and day of the week, for routine operations.
If you have broadband, don't the uTorrents download in the background? You should still be able to watch Hulu.
175 | Timmeh Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:24:42am |
Women warriors of the PKK
(slide show)
About 40% of PKK fighters are women according to the slides.
Goes well with a little Dire Straits:
176 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:26:36am |
re: #174 Boogberg
If you have broadband, don't the uTorrents download in the background? You should still be able to watch Hulu.
Background downloading can still soak up all your bandwidth, depending on the parameters. Also, video is still one of the most expensive things from a bandwidth perspective, so to get reasonable performance from torrenting and streaming, some controls would need to be in place.
177 | abolitionist Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:32:56am |
re: #174 Boogberg
If you have broadband, don't the uTorrents download in the background? You should still be able to watch Hulu.
Yes. Unless your bandwith is barely sufficient for watching hulu in the first place, you can simply constrain the upload & download bandwith for utorrent. For more flexibility, the scheduler lets you specify the days/hours that it's allowed to operate, and whether the bandwidth usage is to be limited or not, hour by hour.
178 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:34:49am |
Ah I see what you're saying. Slow down the upload speed so as not to overtax the bandwidth and CPU, yes?
179 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:35:56am |
re: #178 Boogberg
Ah I see what you're saying. Slow down the upload speed so as not to overtax the bandwidth and CPU, yes?
Or throttle the download speed to make sure there's sufficient bandwidth to accomodate the Hulu stream. How much bandwidth does Hulu take, anyway? I've never used it before.
181 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:38:31am |
182 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:49:04am |
You climate warriors should pay attention to emerging technology. For all you know, this global warming stuff will be reversed and accelerated by your grandchildren. Don't underestimate future generations, boys and girls.
183 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:55:22am |
Who wants to guess one of the six things Charles will talk about? :D
184 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 5:59:44am |
re: #183 Boogberg
Who wants to guess one of the six things Charles will talk about? :D
This...
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
185 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:02:13am |
186 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:02:17am |
Clemmons' criminal past, and update on his status-- cornered, possibly dead:
Man Said to Be Cornered in Tacoma Shooting
A man suspected of gunning down four uniformed officers was cornered in a Seattle home early Monday and the police said he might have died from a gunshot wound, according to news reports.
187 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:03:21am |
re: #185 Boogberg
Nah, he already did that one.
Didn't know that. Date stamp was from today. I need to peddle faster on the ol' bike.
188 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:09:32am |
Iran vows to expand its nuclear program
10 uranium-enrichment sites announced after international rebuke
Iran's government will build 10 new sites to enrich uranium, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Sunday, a dramatic expansion of the country's nuclear program and one that is bound to fuel fears that it is attempting to produce a nuclear weapon.
189 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:11:22am |
re: #188 iceweasel
Iran vows to expand its nuclear program
10 uranium-enrichment sites announced after international rebuke
They just haven't opened their new and improved strongly worded letter.
/
190 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:12:20am |
re: #188 iceweasel
one that is bound to fuel fears that it is attempting to produce a nuclear weapon.
I would think that such a move makes it patently obvious, but what do I know?
191 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:12:45am |
re: #189 Cannadian Club Akbar
They just haven't opened their new and improved strongly worded letter.
/
Like that old Robin Williams joke about the police in England-- the US cop says "Stop or I'll shoot!" The bobby sez "Stop!...or I'll say 'Stop' again!"
192 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:15:00am |
re: #191 iceweasel
Like that old Robin Williams joke about the police in England-- the US cop says "Stop or I'll shoot!" The bobby sez "Stop!...or I'll say 'Stop' again!"
I've seen footage of Russian police. They get it done.
193 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:19:56am |
re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar
I've seen footage of Russian police. They get it done.
Hey, I saw that! Well, one episode of "Cops" that was in Russia. :)
On the other hand, I did see some episode of Cops that was in the UK and had riot footage. That was hardcore.
194 | SteveC Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:20:06am |
re: #191 iceweasel
Like that old Robin Williams joke about the police in England-- the US cop says "Stop or I'll shoot!" The bobby sez "Stop!...or I'll say 'Stop' again!"
"Every parent dreams about their kid stepping up to a microphone. Sometimes you dream that he says `I'd like to accept this Nobel Prize in honor of my parents', and sometimes you dream they step up to the microphone and say `Would you like fries with that?'" - Robin Williams
195 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:20:26am |
Anyone heard of the guy who wrote this?
[Link: www.cato-at-liberty.org...]
196 | KenJen Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:22:16am |
re: #186 iceweasel
Clemmons' criminal past, and update on his status-- cornered, possibly dead:
Man Said to Be Cornered in Tacoma ShootingA man suspected of gunning down four uniformed officers was cornered in a Seattle home early Monday and the police said he might have died from a gunshot wound, according to news reports.
Send in the Strike Team and go all Vick Mackey on his a**.
197 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:23:17am |
re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar
Didn't know that. Date stamp was from today. I need to peddle faster on the ol' bike.
Yeah. It's the third thread down. Could be an update though. :D
198 | SteveC Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:24:29am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
Anyone heard of the guy who wrote this?
[Link: www.cato-at-liberty.org...]
Sure haven't. But I've been reading Insureblog and they're also covering the health care debate pretty closely. You might want to check them out.
199 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:25:08am |
re: #197 Boogberg
Yeah. It's the third thread down. Could be an update though. :D
I missed 2 threads from yesterday. 11 hours of football will do that I guess.:)
200 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:28:16am |
re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar
Anyone heard of the guy who wrote this?
[Link: www.cato-at-liberty.org...]
I haven't heard of that specific guy, but the Cato Institute is a libertarian thinktank with extensive ties to the tobacco industry as well as other big corporate interests (they propagate misleading info on climate change, eg.)
Here's sourcewatch on them.
I'd have an automatic suspicion of anything they published having to do with health care reform.
201 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:30:55am |
re: #196 KenJen
It's possible that Clemmons is already dead or injured. I wouldn't want to risk any more police lives on this guy. Wait him out.
202 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:31:29am |
re: #200 iceweasel
I don't usually pay attention to think tanks, but that caught my eye. Think tanks usually have an underlying motive. Thanks.
203 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:31:45am |
George Will continues to carry water for the anti-AGW types:
Will distorted stolen CRU emails to argue against climate change legislation
George Will falsely claimed that "one of the emails" reportedly stolen from the U.K.'s Climate Research Unit (CRU) said that a climate scientist "wished he could delete, get rid of, the medieval warming period [MWP]." In fact, the scientist wrote in the email that he wanted to " 'contain' the putative 'MWP' " and has stated that the email "reflected his desire to identify exactly when the Medieval Warm Period began"; moreover, Will misrepresented the context of another CRU email in falsely claiming that a scientist wrote, "[I]t is a travesty that we cannot explain the fact that global warming has stopped."
Seriously, WTF happened to George Will? He's turned into such a hack.
204 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:32:09am |
re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar
I missed 2 threads from yesterday. 11 hours of football will do that I guess.:)
Lol! :D I love football too. Hell, I'm even getting into soccer. They been showing it on ESPN.
205 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:33:23am |
re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't usually pay attention to think tanks, but that caught my eye. Think tanks usually have an underlying motive. Thanks.
It could still be worth reading-- not every single person who gets a fellowship there or publishes something for them is necessarily a hack, but they absolutely do have an agenda overall. (I know someone who was once affiliated with them).
206 | KenJen Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:33:52am |
re: #201 lawhawk
It's possible that Clemmons is already dead or injured. I wouldn't want to risk any more police lives on this guy. Wait him out.
Right. Sorry. I'm on season four of The Shield. I'm a little pumped up.
207 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:35:56am |
re: #206 KenJen
Right. Sorry. I'm on season four of The Shield. I'm a little pumped up.
IIRC, the very first episode when it came out Vic took a phonebook to a child molester. Way cool.
208 | Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:36:23am |
re: #186 iceweasel
Clemmons' criminal past, and update on his status-- cornered, possibly dead:
Man Said to Be Cornered in Tacoma ShootingA man suspected of gunning down four uniformed officers was cornered in a Seattle home early Monday and the police said he might have died from a gunshot wound, according to news reports.
Right. Police spokesman said they were fairly sure he had been shot in the torso. That could be fatal after this time elapse.
Caution applies here. No need to let that nutter shoot any more police. It's a fairly safe bet that all manner of high- tech gadgetry will be employed to find exactly where he is located within that residence, if he really is there.
209 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:37:58am |
re: #208 Capitalist Tool
Right. Police spokesman said they were fairly sure he had been shot in the torso. That could be fatal after this time elapse.
Caution applies here. No need to let that nutter shoot any more police. It's a fairly safe bet that all manner of high- tech gadgetry will be employed to find exactly where he is located within that residence, if he really is there.
I thought I heard they sent in robots.
210 | Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:38:33am |
re: #209 Cannadian Club Akbar
I thought I heard they sent in robots.
That would work. Send in the Terminator.
211 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:40:56am |
Hey Mornin' Lizards!
I've been gone since Thanksgiving. Anything exciting happen?
How are you-all and hope you had a good holiday.
212 | Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:41:23am |
There are so many disgusting angles concerning this Tacoma shooting, beyond the fact that he murdered four policemen.
The shooter is a well- known nutjob that's been on the loose for a long time and ignored, just like that nutjob at Ft. Hood, and the fact that Huckabee freed him from prison is even more disgusting.
213 | Jeff In Ohio Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:41:58am |
re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar
Here's a piece at Politico regarding the current Senate version of the bill from an MIT economist who used the CBO numbers:
214 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:43:27am |
216 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:44:12am |
217 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:44:50am |
re: #213 Jeff In Ohio
Here's a piece at Politico regarding the current Senate version of the bill from an MIT economist who used the CBO numbers:
Well, DUH. We all knew they would "pay less for more", as the article so succinctly puts it. The problem we all have with it is, someone somewhere is going to have to pay MORE for LESS in order to make up for the imbalance.
218 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:46:31am |
re: #213 Jeff In Ohio
The guy was in Treasury under Clinton. Could be towing the line.
220 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:48:32am |
re: #212 Capitalist Tool
The chain of causality that ended with the murder of four police officers begins with Huckabee, but doesn't stop there. Arkansas and Washington officials are on the hook as well; they granted him parole in a separate case from the Huckabee clemency, and just this month Washington granted Clemmons bail in a child rape case, even as other criminal charges were pending including an assault on a cop.
One of the reports indicated that he was given bail and required to wear a GPS ankle bracelet but police found the bracelet at his wife's house.
Clemmons was a one-man crime spree, and anyone looking at the case should never have allowed him bail. Even the Washington DOC said that he was a risk of being a repeat offender. Why take the chance?
221 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:49:05am |
re: #214 MandyManners
[Video]
Oh, yeah. NSFW but I figured you'd understand that the moment the video came on.
222 | Jeff In Ohio Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:49:13am |
re: #218 Cannadian Club Akbar
Sure. The guy you linked to from Cato worked under Larry Craig.
I think left or right, your going to have trouble finding policy wonks who haven't worked for one side or the other.
223 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:50:16am |
re: #220 lawhawk
One of the reports indicated that he was given bail and required to wear a GPS ankle bracelet but police found the bracelet at his wife's house.
Aren't those bracelets monitored 24/7?
224 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:50:47am |
re: #222 Jeff In Ohio
Sure. The guy you linked to from Cato worked under Larry Craig.
I think left or right, your going to have trouble finding policy wonks who haven't worked for one side or the other.
I know. That's why I asked lizards about my link. But you can't give evryone health care and not raise taxes.
226 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:51:07am |
re: #222 Jeff In Ohio
Sure. The guy you linked to from Cato worked under Larry Craig.
I think left or right, your going to have trouble finding policy wonks who haven't worked for one side or the other.
Well, at least this MIT guy isn't the only one who approves of the Obama numbers according to politico:
Gruber was among the 23 Ph.D. economists who sent a letter to Obama on Nov. 17 endorsing his approach to health-care reform. Read the economists’ four-page letter here.
227 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:51:28am |
re: #223 MandyManners
Not quite sure how they're supposed to be monitored. I would think that they've got a sensor on them to let authorities know if someone has tampered with them. We'll have to see what comes of that.
228 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:51:38am |
re: #222 Jeff In Ohio
Sure. The guy you linked to from Cato worked under Larry Craig.
I think left or right, your going to have trouble finding policy wonks who haven't worked for one side or the other.
I'll refrain.
229 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:52:04am |
re: #222 Jeff In Ohio
Sure. The guy you linked to from Cato worked under Larry Craig.
I think left or right, your going to have trouble finding policy wonks who haven't worked for one side or the other.
Anyone that knows anything is going to be connected somehow. How else are they going to learn anything?
IMHO, the information has become so specialized that the average citizen has a hard time figuring anything out.
231 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:53:09am |
re: #227 lawhawk
Not quite sure how they're supposed to be monitored. I would think that they've got a sensor on them to let authorities know if someone has tampered with them. We'll have to see what comes of that.
If he was wearing it, I wonder if that program will stop. That'd be a shame for non-violent offenders.
232 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:53:40am |
Bail for child rapists? After how many convictions, how much violence? That bail judge needs to resign. Each and every weak link in the chain needs to be addressed. Putting a stop to foolish bail, foolish clemency is critical to public safety. I'm all for bail for the non violent, the first time offender. The housewife DUI. The middle manager with cocaine.
But those who have allegedly violated a child? Unless it is the weakest case or an alibi looks very possible- No bail.
Any DA's or ex judges in the house this morning? How does this happen?
LAWHAWK?
233 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:54:23am |
re: #229 ggt
Anyone that knows anything is going to be connected somehow. How else are they going to learn anything?
IMHO, the information has become so specialized that the average citizen has a hard time figuring anything out.
I wonder if that's purposeful. Just look at the language in most statutes, case law and administrative regs.
234 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:55:13am |
re: #232 Rightwingconspirator
Bail for child rapists? After how many convictions, how much violence? That bail judge needs to resign. Each and every weak link in the chain needs to be addressed. Putting a stop to foolish bail, foolish clemency is critical to public safety. I'm all for bail for the non violent, the first time offender. The housewife DUI. The middle manager with cocaine.
But those who have allegedly violated a child? Unless it is the weakest case or an alibi looks very possible- No bail.
Any DA's or ex judges in the house this morning? How does this happen?
LAWHAWK?
The whole thing pisses-me off. I think the crime is so horrific that something primal in good people just can't believe it's real. So the perpetrators play on this and get away with it over and over.
235 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:56:30am |
re: #233 MandyManners
I wonder if that's purposeful. Just look at the language in most statutes, case law and administrative regs.
I was really referring regarding Math and Science information in this case, the climate-change data. Only the people involved in the research can really understand it. We have to trust them.
agh!
236 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:58:36am |
re: #234 ggt
That makes sense for the average joe, or a rookie DA. Not experienced judges. I am angry too, and that's after a nights sleep on it.
238 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:59:27am |
re: #235 ggt
I was really referring regarding Math and Science information in this case, the climate-change data. Only the people involved in the research can really understand it. We have to trust them.
agh!
I thought this discussion was about health care "reform". But, yes, the climate debate brings to it special concerns about the math and science.
239 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:59:28am |
Most convicts don't have 15K sitting around for bail money.
241 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:00:15am |
re: #238 MandyManners
I thought this discussion was about health care "reform". But, yes, the climate debate brings to it special concerns about the math and science.
Health care too--the economics is complex.
242 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:01:04am |
re: #232 Rightwingconspirator
I'm not sure how or why this happened. I can only speculate.
It's not like the Washington DOC didn't know this guy's history - they knew he was a risk to offend again. Did the local prosecutor know? Did the judge that ruled know?
If the prosecutor didn't know, it is conceivable that was the reason for bail being set, rather than holding him pending trial. Also, it's possible that the bail was set at $150,000 figuring that Clemmons wouldn't be able to make bail, and he somehow managed to do so.
It's real early to figure out why he was granted bail in this case. All we do know is that but for Huckabee's clemency, Clemmons would have been in an Arkansas prison and wouldn't have been able to carry out multiple crimes since his release.
243 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:01:13am |
re: #239 Cannadian Club Akbar
Most convicts don't have 15K sitting around for bail money.
Relatives have a house to put up? Besides, isn't it 10 per cent of the bail that is put up, with the bondsman guaranteeing the rest?
244 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:01:46am |
re: #239 Cannadian Club Akbar
Clemmons had run some kind of a business, so it's possible he was able to use it as collateral to put up his portion of the $150,000 bail - $15,000.
245 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:02:10am |
" Pirates now hold about a dozen vessels hostage and more than 200 crew members. The Maran Centaurus had 28 crew aboard - 16 Filipinos, nine Greeks, two Ukrainians and one Romanian, Harbour said."
WTF?
246 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:02:31am |
re: #243 MandyManners
Relatives have a house to put up? Besides, isn't it 10 per cent of the bail that is put up, with the bondsman guaranteeing the rest?
I think so. And putting up 10%, you don't get it back after going to court.
247 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:03:02am |
For a change of pace, a view of Custer State Park and some of its herd of bison.
248 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:03:29am |
re: #244 lawhawk
Clemmons had run some kind of a business, so it's possible he was able to use it as collateral to put up his portion of the $150,000 bail - $15,000.
It was $150,000.00?
249 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:03:31am |
re: #245 ggt
" Pirates now hold about a dozen vessels hostage and more than 200 crew members. The Maran Centaurus had 28 crew aboard - 16 Filipinos, nine Greeks, two Ukrainians and one Romanian, Harbour said."
WTF?
Piracy is one of those things where I don't understand how they get away with it. Exactly how "bad" would it be to issue a standing order to the Navy that pirates are to be fired upon on sight and just let the big guns take care of the rest?
250 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:03:37am |
re: #239 Cannadian Club Akbar
Most convicts don't have 15K sitting around for bail money.
A relative who owns a house can come up with 15K (home equity loan) in very short order.
251 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:04:08am |
Now I'm all pissed-off at the Supreme Court for that recent ruling on Child rape cases.
We need to change the legal status of child rape --to put in parr with Murder.
252 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:04:27am |
253 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:04:55am |
re: #250 sattv4u2
A relative who owns a house can come up with 15K (home equity loan) in very short order.
Who would do such a thing for a multiple offender?
254 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:16am |
re: #249 thedopefishlives
Piracy is one of those things where I don't understand how they get away with it. Exactly how "bad" would it be to issue a standing order to the Navy that pirates are to be fired upon on sight and just let the big guns take care of the rest?
Part of me wants to suggest just sinking this ship. The draw-back is that that would kill the innocent crew.
255 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:20am |
Morning folks. Pretty eventful weekend for a holiday.
256 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:25am |
re: #250 sattv4u2
A relative who owns a house can come up with 15K (home equity loan) in very short order.
True, but with the charges he had on him, I would let him sit.
257 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:36am |
re: #254 MandyManners
Part of me wants to suggest just sinking this ship. The draw-back is that that would kill the innocent crew.
Oh, the big oil slick would not be good.
258 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:55am |
re: #253 ggt
Who would do such a thing for a multiple offender?
There are people who, for whatever misguided reasons, think that their relatives are above reproach. They're just misunderstood, etc.
259 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:06:04am |
re: #249 thedopefishlives
Piracy is one of those things where I don't understand how they get away with it. Exactly how "bad" would it be to issue a standing order to the Navy that pirates are to be fired upon on sight and just let the big guns take care of the rest?
They coudn't hold that many ships without someone "turning a blind eye".
260 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:06:10am |
261 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:06:33am |
How was everyone's holiday and long weekend?
262 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:06:40am |
re: #253 ggt
Who would do such a thing for a multiple offender?
Happens DAILY
that persons parents are the most likely. They "know" their son os bad, but don't want him sitting in jail before trial. As long as he shows up to his court dates, even if he's convicted the parents get the 15K back
263 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:21am |
re: #256 Cannadian Club Akbar
True, but with the charges he had on him, I would let him sit.
see 253
264 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:34am |
re: #227 lawhawk
Not quite sure how they're supposed to be monitored. I would think that they've got a sensor on them to let authorities know if someone has tampered with them. We'll have to see what comes of that.
You're correct, at least about the ones in my part of the state. The have a sensor on them so if they're disconnected for any reason it will send a signal letting someone know. They also have a limit on how far away from a base sensor you are able to go before they'll go off too.
265 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:35am |
re: #262 sattv4u2
Happens DAILY
that persons parents are the most likely. They "know" their son os bad, but don't want him sitting in jail before trial. As long as he shows up to his court dates, even if he's convicted the parents get the 15K back
I don't get it.
266 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:39am |
re: #262 sattv4u2
Happens DAILY
that persons parents are the most likely. They "know" their son os bad, but don't want him sitting in jail before trial. As long as he shows up to his court dates, even if he's convicted the parents get the 15K back
You don't get the money back. Only on a cash bond which would have been 150K.
267 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:42am |
re: #254 MandyManners
Part of me wants to suggest just sinking this ship. The draw-back is that that would kill the innocent crew.
re: #257 MandyManners
Oh, the big oil slick would not be good.
Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest sinking the ships the pirates captured, although in many cases, that may be a better alternative. Rather, allow our forces the leeway to shoot at them and, if feasible, conduct boarding operations. Do it like we did with the Barbary pirates back in the early days of the Navy.
268 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:58am |
re: #261 Walter L. Newton
How was everyone's holiday and long weekend?
Pretty relaxing. How was yours?
269 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:08:00am |
270 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:08:51am |
271 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:09:10am |
re: #267 thedopefishlives
Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest sinking the ships the pirates captured, although in many cases, that may be a better alternative. Rather, allow our forces the leeway to shoot at them and, if feasible, conduct boarding operations. Do it like we did with the Barbary pirates back in the early days of the Navy.
There would be a lot of deaths of innocent crew members.
272 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:09:31am |
273 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:09:34am |
274 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:11:23am |
I think the British Royal Navy should take care of this one. It's their turn.
Is/Has there ever been a non-English speaking force that has "taken-care" of any global situation?
275 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:12:32am |
re: #266 Cannadian Club Akbar
You don't get the money back. Only on a cash bond which would have been 150K.
No,, when you are bonded out of jail someone has to put that money up as 'surety"
That means to en"sure" you come back for court. If he goes back to court the bond is released and the people that put it up get their cash back
Thats where bail bondsmen come in also. If I didn't have 15K in cash but has other assets to put uo for collateral, I could go to a bailbondsman, put up 15K of my house as collateral. The bailbondsman puts up the 15K in cash
If the bad guy shows up to court the bailbondsman gets his 15K back from the state, then charges me a percentage of that (just like a bank loan that has now been paid back)
If the bad guy does NOT show to court the bond is revoked (the state keeps the 15K) and the bailbondsman comes after the collateral assets (my house) plus interest
276 | SteveC Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:12:33am |
re: #254 MandyManners
Part of me wants to suggest just sinking this ship. The draw-back is that that would kill the innocent crew.
Take one of our capital ships and park it off the coast of Somalia and just let the gun crews have at it. Keep shooting until every ship is released.
If they want us to stop, then sail out and make us stop.
277 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:13:46am |
The good people in Somalia are f@cked in so many ways.
278 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:13:49am |
re: #276 SteveC
Take one of our capital ships and park it off the coast of Somalia and just let the gun crews have at it. Keep shooting until every ship is released.
If they want us to stop, then sail out and make us stop.
Shoot at what? The coast?
279 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:14:05am |
re: #276 SteveC
Take one of our capital ships and park it off the coast of Somalia and just let the gun crews have at it. Keep shooting until every ship is released.
If they want us to stop, then sail out and make us stop.
This is kinda what I had in mind. There's got to be SOMETHING we can do without risking innocent people. It's just getting ridiculous.
280 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:14:05am |
re: #275 sattv4u2
I've always known it to be 10% plus collateral for the rest. Lawhawk would know more, but I think I'm right here.
281 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:15:38am |
re: #274 ggt
I think the British Royal Navy should take care of this one. It's their turn.
Is/Has there ever been a non-English speaking force that has "taken-care" of any global situation?
I just saw a special on History channel or something. We took out some pirates who tried to hijack a Mersk container ship. Once again, the US Navy. Haaahah!
282 | SteveC Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:39am |
re: #278 MandyManners
Shoot at what? The coast?
Anything that has a Somalian mailing address. Raise Hell.
(Slightly irritable; already had my honesty and integrity questioned this morning, forgive me.)
283 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:39am |
284 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:55am |
re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar
I've always known it to be 10% plus collateral for the rest. Lawhawk would know more, but I think I'm right here.
Point being, the bad guy shows up to court (and any other hearings/ obligations prior to sentencing) the person that puts the bond up gets that money back
SO,,, if he had a parent that didn;t want to see him sit in jail for the months BEFORE his trial they would put up the 15K knowing they would get it back (by making sure he showed up, of course).
285 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:18:23am |
" The warships involved in anti-piracy operations will normally have a lawyer on board the ship and any operation will involve a legal consultation. The factors considered for a possible prosecution include cost, the quality of the evidence and the operational impact. "
I'd be laughing if it wasn't true.
286 | BARACK THE VOTE Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:18:29am |
Chelsea Clinton got engaged over the holiday.
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
287 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:18:32am |
re: #282 SteveC
Anything that has a Somalian mailing address. Raise Hell.
(Slightly irritable; already had my honesty and integrity questioned this morning, forgive me.)
Shoot at unarmed people?
288 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:19:29am |
re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar
I've always known it to be 10% plus collateral for the rest. Lawhawk would know more, but I think I'm right here.
$150,000 // $15,000 cash bond means someone EITHER puts up $150,000 collateral (house deed, lets say) OR $15,000 cash
Thats where the 10% comes in
289 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:19:51am |
re: #285 ggt
" The warships involved in anti-piracy operations will normally have a lawyer on board the ship and any operation will involve a legal consultation. The factors considered for a possible prosecution include cost, the quality of the evidence and the operational impact. "
I'd be laughing if it wasn't true.
Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of bullshit.
291 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:36am |
re: #288 sattv4u2
$150,000 // $15,000 cash bond means someone EITHER puts up $150,000 collateral (house deed, lets say) OR $15,000 cash
Thats where the 10% comes in
I understand. But the 10% the bondsman keeps. That's how they make money.
292 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:20am |
293 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:36am |
re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar
I understand. But the 10% the bondsman keeps. That's how they make money.
Yes, but 10% of the money they put up (the 15K cash)
NOT 10% of the 150K collateral
294 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:37am |
295 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:22:50am |
re: #293 sattv4u2
Yes, but 10% of the money they put up (the 15K cash)
NOT 10% of the 150K collateral
K, I see what you're saying now. I'm dense at times.
297 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:30:21am |
The people at my new job are idiots. bbiam.
299 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:33:03am |
300 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:14am |
Data Was Dumped. Smoke Level Increasing.
Remember the Sandy Berger denials that he had actually destroyed any memos? It turned out to be a false denial; data had been destroyed. Looks like the same trend with the East Anglia folks...:
SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.
The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.
The admission follows the leaking of a thousand private emails sent and received by Professor Phil Jones, the CRU’s director. In them he discusses thwarting climate sceptics seeking access to such data.
In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”
301 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:50am |
302 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:37:10am |
re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar
The people at my new job are idiots. bbiam.
I never filled out paperwork for my new job to recieve my paycheck. They wanted me to drive 2 1/2 hours round trip to do so today. I said "Will the area director be down here today?" Turns out the answer was yes. Geesh. I could have done this last week while I was there.
303 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:37:18am |
We drink and we pillage
And we do what we please
We get all that we want for free!
We'll kick your ass and rape your lass
Somalian pirates we!
304 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:38:26am |
re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar
K, I see what you're saying now. I'm dense at times.
Mo too
Thank God mine are limited to just two times
Daytimes and Nightimes!
306 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:04am |
re: #305 Boogberg
Direct deposit rules!
Didn't do that paperwork, either. Management at the place isn't very organized.
307 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:12am |
re: #303 Alouette
We drink and we pillage
And we do what we please
We get all that we want for free!
We'll kick your ass and rape your lass
Somalian pirates we![Video]
I don't see Jack Sparrow singing that.
308 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:56am |
re: #303 Alouette
We drink and we pillage
And we do what we please
We get all that we want for free!
We'll kick your ass and rape your lass
Somalian pirates we!
Aaaahahahaha! Awesome. :D
309 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:43:51am |
re: #307 MandyManners
I don't see Jack Sparrow singing that.
That's because it's Fatbeard's song. Jack Sparrow is a wuss compared to Fatbeard, the most feared pirate in all of Somalia.
310 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:44:28am |
re: #309 Alouette
That's because it's Fatbeard's song. Jack Sparrow is a wuss compared to Fatbeard, the most feared pirate in all of Somalia.
It's the eyeliner.
311 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:45:28am |
re: #310 MandyManners
It's the eyeliner.
It's the light saber. It makes French cruise ship crews run in fear.
312 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:46:20am |
Many thanks to my scaly friends and zionist stooges here at LGF.
I'd requested all manner of virtual fingers to be crossed and such-like in support of a part-time gig (to replace one of my OTHER part-time gigs) for which I'd been applying.
Well, that one's under review by their Board just now, but to tide me over in the interim, I've got a n interview tomorrow afternoon for a gig paying 20% more than I'm getting now at my full-time job.
Charles, what's the proper format for the LGF version of a Novena to St. Jude, anyway?
313 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:46:40am |
314 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:39am |
CNN just said the cop killer isn't in the house. WTF?
315 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:57am |
re: #300 winemaker
[snip]
In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”
So, what's so important about the original data?
316 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:57am |
re: #312 Guanxi88
Many thanks to my scaly friends and zionist stooges here at LGF.
I'd requested all manner of virtual fingers to be crossed and such-like in support of a part-time gig (to replace one of my OTHER part-time gigs) for which I'd been applying.
Well, that one's under review by their Board just now, but to tide me over in the interim, I've got a n interview tomorrow afternoon for a gig paying 20% more than I'm getting now at my full-time job.
Charles, what's the proper format for the LGF version of a Novena to St. Jude, anyway?
Well, you could ask me to bless you, it couldn't help.
317 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:18am |
re: #315 Walter L. Newton
So, what's so important about the original data?
Not a thing!
As a matter of fact, I just sent a copy of the Mona Lisa to Southbeys for auction. I expect to get as much $$$ as they got for the original!
318 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:23am |
a new VDH essay is up...some crystal clear solutions to pressing problems, therefore unrealistic in todays world...just like the pirates...ho hum...soon the pirates will control the entire Sudanese economy...yawn...doing nothing is always worse than doing something...zzz
319 | sattv4u2 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:51am |
320 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:52:46am |
re: #306 Cannadian Club Akbar
Didn't do that paperwork, either. Management at the place isn't very organized.
Maybe you need to exercise some authoritay:
321 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:38am |
The proliferation of jihadist training camps raises concerns that Somalia will become the next Afghanistan — a sanctuary for al-Qaida-linked groups to train and plan attacks. The Somali government seems powerless to do anything about it.
wonderful...
[Link: www.google.com...]
322 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:46am |
re: #316 Walter L. Newton
Well, you could ask me to bless you, it couldn't help.
You're kidding me, no? Hell, you're one of the chief encouragers on this site. Anyone who wants some good, sound advice on how to make the best of every situation, and who needs it without the whole "everything's gonna be just fine, you betcha" line of crap, can always count on your honesty and good humor.
323 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:01am |
324 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:44am |
Hey, it's Cyber-Monday!
When I was in Israel, my son-in-law admired the cute little wireless mouse that I had for my laptop, so I gave it to him (such things are very expensive over there) and I just ordered a bunch of new ones through the LGF store.
Zionist Mall obligatory plug. Israeli Ahava cosmetics and a unique collection of handmade Judeo-Christian jewelry (just for you, Hoops!)
325 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:43am |
re: #321 albusteve
The proliferation of jihadist training camps raises concerns that Somalia will become the next Afghanistan — a sanctuary for al-Qaida-linked groups to train and plan attacks. The Somali government seems powerless to do anything about it.
wonderful...
[Link: www.google.com...]
Hmm...Nato?
Nope.
The EU?
Don't make me laugh.
The UN?
They're already there, and as Uselessly Nugatory as ever.
I know!
Let's let the Swiss handle this one.
328 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:02:32am |
re: #325 Cato the Elder
Isn't there an African Union?
329 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:44am |
Honduran Election:
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
2 quick notes:
1. If someone calls it a coup in my presence I'm going to have to slap them.
2. The US has already stated they'll stand by the election results, I wonder
how long it will take them to make the congratulatory call to the new
president.
330 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:04:11am |
re: #321 albusteve
The proliferation of jihadist training camps raises concerns that Somalia will become the next Afghanistan — a sanctuary for al-Qaida-linked groups to train and plan attacks. The Somali government seems powerless to do anything about it.
wonderful...
[Link: www.google.com...]
Don't worry. The spinelessness of the West won't get that people killed. What's the worst Al Qaeda could do from there?
/dripping
331 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:04:37am |
re: #1 Sharmuta
I love the bit of sunset breaking up the monochromatism.
My 4 year old son's favorite color? Heliotrope.
(From Bound 'n' rebound by pixar).
[Link: www.pixar.com...]
332 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:28am |
Seattle PD steaming audio provided by KOMO news of the on-going search for the Police Murder suspect:
[Link: www.komonews.com...]
333 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:03am |
re: #329 RogueOne
Many other countries, particularly those led by leftists, say an election held by a coup-installed government can never be valid, but it is Washington's support that matters most in Honduras.
Has anyone asked Jimmy Carter for a quote?
334 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:13am |
re: #322 Guanxi88
You're kidding me, no? Hell, you're one of the chief encouragers on this site. Anyone who wants some good, sound advice on how to make the best of every situation, and who needs it without the whole "everything's gonna be just fine, you betcha" line of crap, can always count on your honesty and good humor.
Thanks... (I think).
336 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:29am |
SPD is searching for a suspect in the U District hopping Metro buses
337 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:33am |
Why I don't like Greenwald part 83.
[Link: www.salon.com...]
I'm not a fan of Bayh but this post is so full of bad logic and reality stretching I don't even know where to start.
338 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:38am |
re: #332 Ericus58
Seattle PD steaming audio provided by KOMO news of the on-going search for the Police Murder suspect:
[Link: www.komonews.com...]
Wow, I'm still catching up...first cuppa. I was assuming that because they knew who he was and what the political fallout was, they had already caught him.
339 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:46am |
re: #328 Cannadian Club Akbar
Isn't there an African Union?
Yes, there is. And its politicians are stealing the pay of the troops the AU sent to Somalia:
AU (African Union) officials have stolen millions of dollars of foreign aid money they received. As a result, many of the peacekeepers in Mogadishu have not been paid for six months. Morale is suffering. The troops are, in theory, paid about $550 a month. The discovery of the theft has led to donor nations to halt further contributions until something was done about the corruption. AU officials are noncommittal, as they try and come up with convincing excuses for the situation (that do not include giving back the stolen funds). There is a similar situation with the money paid to the Somali Transitional Government for their security forces (or anything else.)
340 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:57am |
341 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:00am |
so many innocent people world wide, suffer because the US sits on it's ass and does nothing but talk...the price tag just keeps going up and up...our federal govt is a fucking disgrace
342 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:54am |
re: #336 Ericus58
SPD is searching for a suspect in the U District hopping Metro buses
Ah, fuck, no. I love that place. Strolled up and down it many times stoned.
343 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:16am |
re: #336 Ericus58
SPD is searching for a suspect in the U District hopping Metro buses
Tell them to look for the guy with a belly wound.
344 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:30am |
re: #337 RogueOne
Why I don't like Greenwald part 83.
[Link: www.salon.com...]I'm not a fan of Bayh but this post is so full of bad logic and reality stretching I don't even know where to start.
Greenwald is a fucking idiot.
345 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:29am |
347 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:19am |
With so much red ink, Congress has been racing to keep up. In the last eight years, members have voted seven times to increase the statutory debt limit to allow more borrowing, oftentimes doing it quietly, attaching the measure to broader spending bills to avoid an unpleasant debate.
[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com...]
stealing your money is a way of life for these thieves...our senators
348 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:25am |
re: #337 RogueOne
Why I don't like Greenwald part 83.
[Link: www.salon.com...]I'm not a fan of Bayh but this post is so full of bad logic and reality stretching I don't even know where to start.
Evan Bayh is immensely popular in Indiana. I don't agree with him all the time, but he has played very effectively to the center in his constituency.
349 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:27am |
They have a Bus number and it appears he's now downtown
350 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:31am |
351 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:33am |
352 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:14:17am |
re: #348 thedopefishlives
Evan Bayh is immensely popular in Indiana. I don't agree with him all the time, but he has played very effectively to the center in his constituency.
He is also one of our hereditary rulers. My Indiana relatives worshiped at the altar of his father, Birch, when I was a kid.
353 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:20am |
Transfer the UN headquarters to an African or South American capital closer to the problems of hunger, disease, and poverty. I suggest either Lagos or Lima. Global elites could not walk from five-star hotels to the CBS studios to grandstand about US pathologies. But delegates could match their solidarity rhetoric by concretely living with the other. We would get away from the “U.S. did it”. UN forces could ring UN headquarters when a nearby Chavez or Mugabe was rumored to be saber-rattling and crossing borders. When the Kofi Annans of the world got upset stomachs from their luncheon salads, perhaps they could address world sanitation and government corruption rather than Israel.
Victor Davis Hanson
354 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:23am |
re: #352 Cato the Elder
He is also one of our hereditary rulers. My Indiana relatives worshiped at the altar of his father, Birch, when I was a kid.
Yes, I know. I even voted for him back when I used to live there. There isn't a lot of choice for candidates in rural, agrarian, laid-back Indiana.
355 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:36am |
re: #341 albusteve
so many innocent people world wide, suffer because the US sits on it's ass and does nothing but talk...the price tag just keeps going up and up...our federal govt is a fucking disgrace
Umm...we bankrupted ourselves over Iraq and are continuing to do so in Afghanistan...to what end?
Assuming your desire to expand our role as world policeman is practical, just, and potentially effective, where would we get the money?
Or forget money, for the moment. Where would we get the soldiers? A draft?
356 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:41am |
re: #352 Cato the Elder
He is also one of our hereditary rulers. My Indiana relatives worshiped at the altar of his father, Birch, when I was a kid.
I was born in Indiana and have relatives there. Maybe we're related?
/// Didn't mean to scare you.
357 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:44am |
The African Union doesn't have a navy, and it's limited in what it can do in Somalia. It lacks the logistical capabilities to do much either without the support of the US.
358 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:00am |
re: #347 albusteve
With so much red ink, Congress has been racing to keep up. In the last eight years, members have voted seven times to increase the statutory debt limit to allow more borrowing, oftentimes doing it quietly, attaching the measure to broader spending bills to avoid an unpleasant debate.
[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com...]
stealing your money is a way of life for these thieves...our senators
The CBO projecting surpluses after the 1995 budget deal made them even more so. "You mean we haven't been spending *enough*??
[Link: www.craigsteiner.us...]
359 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:52am |
re: #356 Cannadian Club Akbar
I was born in Indiana and have relatives there. Maybe we're related?
/// Didn't mean to scare you.
Well, you can't pick your family! ;^)
360 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:52am |
re: #348 thedopefishlives
Evan Bayh is immensely popular in Indiana. I don't agree with him all the time, but he has played very effectively to the center in his constituency.
His popularity around here is something I've never understood. He did nothing for 8 straight years as gov and managed to wrangle that into a senate seat where he's continued along the path of not really doing anything of note.
361 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:57am |
re: #355 Cato the Elder
Umm...we bankrupted ourselves over Iraq and are continuing to do so in Afghanistan...to what end?
Assuming your desire to expand our role as world policeman is practical, just, and potentially effective, where would we get the money?
Or forget money, for the moment. Where would we get the soldiers? A draft?
I'm with tricky dickie morris. The US should be the world's fireman, not the world's policeman. We go in and put out the fires, but it's up to the rest of the community to rebuild.
362 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:20am |
re: #357 lawhawk
The African Union doesn't have a navy, and it's limited in what it can do in Somalia. It lacks the logistical capabilities to do much either without the support of the US.
And even if we provide support, most that support ends up in Switzerland.
363 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:50am |
re: #355 Cato the Elder
Umm...we bankrupted ourselves over Iraq and are continuing to do so in Afghanistan...to what end?
Assuming your desire to expand our role as world policeman is practical, just, and potentially effective, where would we get the money?
Or forget money, for the moment. Where would we get the soldiers? A draft?
kill the pirates on the open sea...take down AQ camps with air strikes or Special Ops...repeat
364 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:55am |
Whine alert.
Remember, last Monday I had that tooth root dug out and another whole tooth removed? Well, the place where the whole tooth was removed is KILLING me this morning. It has been a bit painful since about Thursday, when I finished out my pain medication, but it's even worst today.
I have an appointment at 12 to have the dentist do the first fitting of my new partials, but this doc need to check if this thing is infected or something. It should be throbbing a week after it's been pulled.
This is annoying...
365 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:56am |
Negative on the Bus, Searched. Search is on-going.
366 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:58am |
re: #360 RogueOne
His popularity around here is something I've never understood. He did nothing for 8 straight years as gov and managed to wrangle that into a senate seat where he's continued along the path of not really doing anything of note.
I wish we had more do-nothing politicians. In fact, I wish they'd give us all a break and go home for a couple of years.
367 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:23am |
re: #361 gregb
I'm with tricky dickie morris. The US should be the world's fireman, not the world's policeman. We go in and put out the fires, but it's up to the rest of the community to rebuild.
The problem is knowing who are the flames and who are the wooden structure being consumed. We can't tell civilians from insurgents or good guys from bad; nobody wears armbands anymore.
368 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:45am |
re: #366 gregb
I wish we had more do-nothing politicians. In fact, I wish they'd give us all a break and go home for a couple of years.
That's a petition I'll sign.
369 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:45am |
re: #360 RogueOne
His popularity around here is something I've never understood. He did nothing for 8 straight years as gov and managed to wrangle that into a senate seat where he's continued along the path of not really doing anything of note.
The fact that he doesn't rock the boat and cause national issues, while still bringing home the bacon, probably contributes a lot to it. Plus, he's reasonably charismatic.
371 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:20:27am |
re: #367 Cato the Elder
The problem is knowing who are the flames and who are the wooden structure being consumed. We can't tell civilians from insurgents or good guys from bad; nobody wears armbands anymore.
I think there's a famous USMC motto that addresses that exact point. ///
372 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:22am |
re: #364 Walter L. Newton
Whine alert.
Remember, last Monday I had that tooth root dug out and another whole tooth removed? Well, the place where the whole tooth was removed is KILLING me this morning. It has been a bit painful since about Thursday, when I finished out my pain medication, but it's even worst today.
I have an appointment at 12 to have the dentist do the first fitting of my new partials, but this doc need to check if this thing is infected or something. It should be throbbing a week after it's been pulled.
This is annoying...
Sounds like an infection to me. Time for some Western medicine.
Or you could just rub African honey on it and hope for the best, like my "alternative" friends recently told me I should do instead of the nasty pills.
I chose the pills, and came up with an aphorism. The only thing worse than modern medicine is the lack thereof.
Feel better, in any case.
373 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:46am |
374 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:23:11am |
re: #364 Walter L. Newton
Whine alert.
Remember, last Monday I had that tooth root dug out and another whole tooth removed? Well, the place where the whole tooth was removed is KILLING me this morning. It has been a bit painful since about Thursday, when I finished out my pain medication, but it's even worst today.
I have an appointment at 12 to have the dentist do the first fitting of my new partials, but this doc need to check if this thing is infected or something. It should be throbbing a week after it's been pulled.
This is annoying...
an infection in this case could get serious fast...jus sayin...sounds like you need a round of antibiotics
375 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:23:27am |
re: #369 thedopefishlives
The fact that he doesn't rock the boat and cause national issues, while still bringing home the bacon, probably contributes a lot to it. Plus, he's reasonably charismatic.
Plus, his daddy was a senator before him. Let no one tell me we don't have an aristocracy.
376 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:23:54am |
re: #374 albusteve
an infection in this case could get serious fast...jus sayin...sounds like you need a round of antibiotics
And more pain meds.
378 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:24:05am |
re: #368 RogueOne
That's a petition I'll sign.
There was a petition a couple years ago to make all official government business decentralized by providing high end telecommuncations to all elected officials. They would have a mandate that they had to spend 95% of their time in the district they are serving.
The immediate advantages would be that a) they would be forced to listen to their electors more and b) all the lobbyist influence that is now powerfully centralized and cost effective would diminish. Lobbyists would have to have a lobbying office in every single district.
379 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:24:29am |
re: #372 Cato the Elder
I chose the pills, and came up with an aphorism. The only thing worse than modern medicine is the lack thereof.
It's not often that we agree on things, but this... I could almost hug you for this. My wife's extended family tends toward the anti-vaxer side and is anti-medicine in general. I come from the complete opposite perspective.
380 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:31am |
re: #375 Cato the Elder
Plus, his daddy was a senator before him. Let no one tell me we don't have an aristocracy.
Gores, Kennedys, Bushes, Bayhs. Am I missing anyone?
381 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:38am |
re: #329 RogueOne
Honduran Election:
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]2 quick notes:
1. If someone calls it a coup in my presence I'm going to have to slap them.
2. The US has already stated they'll stand by the election results, I wonder
how long it will take them to make the congratulatory call to the new
president.
It's not a coup, just the validation of a coup.
382 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:40am |
re: #361 gregb
I'm with tricky dickie morris. The US should be the world's fireman, not the world's policeman. We go in and put out the fires, but it's up to the rest of the community to rebuild.
Not a fan of the Marshall Plan?
383 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:42am |
re: #242 lawhawk
Thanks. You are correct, it is early. Let's keep on eye on the fallout. First of course catching this rat.
384 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:26:51am |
re: #367 Cato the Elder
The problem is knowing who are the flames and who are the wooden structure being consumed. We can't tell civilians from insurgents or good guys from bad; nobody wears armbands anymore.
then pull in our horns, shut down the borders...no person, no container or vehicle in or out without thorough inspection...ID every illegal alien coast to coast...get ready for another hit
385 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:15am |
Dubai World is on its own. The government of Dubai has told the company it is on its own.
"Creditors need to take part of the responsibility for their decision to lend to the companies," said Abdulrahman al-Saleh, director general of Dubai's department of finance. "They think Dubai World is part of the government, which is not correct."United Arab Emirates stocks plunged on Monday as investors waited for clarity on Dubai's request for a delay until May 2010 on repaying billions of dollars in debt issued by Dubai World and its Nakheel unit, developer of three distinctive palm-shaped islands in the emirate.
Story continues below ↓advertisement %P% your ad hereSaleh's remarks in an Arabic-language interview to Dubai TV, a station owned by the ruler of Dubai, came after UAE markets closed.
"They have confirmed there is going to be a restructuring and are doing what they can to differentiate between the government and companies," said Mohieddine Kronfol, managing director at Algebra Capital.
That is going to affect real estate holdings worldwide and other creditors are going to be looking for a safe port as this latest crisis develops.
386 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:39am |
re: #373 MandyManners
[Video]
It's the oddest thing. That specific video on youtube only plays out of my left speaker, but every other piece of video or music does both.
I think maybe they might have recorded it using a mono-channel setting.
387 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:58am |
re: #380 MandyManners
Gores, Kennedys, Bushes, Bayhs. Am I missing anyone?
And the Daleys, Mandy. Don't forget about them.
388 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:24am |
re: #377 Sharmuta
Very sorry to hear that, Walter.
re: #376 Cannadian Club Akbar
And more pain meds.
re: #374 albusteve
an infection in this case could get serious fast...jus sayin...sounds like you need a round of antibiotics
Thanks all/ I'm thinking of leaving a around 10 and head downhill a bit early and take care of some banking and stop into the office early and see if they can get on this.
I think infection is probable. I have some antibiotics here, but I probably need to wait and see what the doc says.
389 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:42am |
re: #384 albusteve
then pull in our horns, shut down the borders...no person, no container or vehicle in or out without thorough inspection...ID every illegal alien coast to coast...get ready for another hit
Great false dichotomy there. Either we run the world, or we cower in fear.
How about we look after our interests, honestly, with no apologies, and let the parts we can't control go to hell in their own preferred style?
390 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:46am |
re: #380 MandyManners
Gores, Kennedys, Bushes, Bayhs. Am I missing anyone?
Rockefeller?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
391 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:30:56am |
re: #364 Walter L. Newton
Whine alert.
Remember, last Monday I had that tooth root dug out and another whole tooth removed? Well, the place where the whole tooth was removed is KILLING me this morning. It has been a bit painful since about Thursday, when I finished out my pain medication, but it's even worst today.
I have an appointment at 12 to have the dentist do the first fitting of my new partials, but this doc need to check if this thing is infected or something. It should be throbbing a week after it's been pulled.
This is annoying...
Glad someone can afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work. I wouldn't be wining like a sissy if I could.
392 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:00am |
re: #389 Cato the Elder
Great false dichotomy there. Either we run the world, or we cower in fear.
How about we look after our interests, honestly, with no apologies, and let the parts we can't control go to hell in their own preferred style?
it's not a false dichotomy...it's simply one or the other and I agree with you, but the problem is we don't even know what our interests are...I've given up on Afghanistan for example
393 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:04am |
394 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:11am |
re: #391 Boogberg
Glad someone can afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work. I wouldn't be wining like a sissy if I could.
I can't afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work, that's why I brush and floss every day and have regular cleaning appointments.
An ounce of prevention, as they say.
395 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:11am |
re: #385 lawhawk
Dubai World is on its own. The government of Dubai has told the company it is on its own.
That is going to affect real estate holdings worldwide and other creditors are going to be looking for a safe port as this latest crisis develops.
I had been watching what was going on there with malicious bemusement. Honestly, how long did anyone think that pace of spending could be sustained? And in Dubai, of all places?
396 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:12am |
re: #382 Sharmuta
Not a fan of the Marshall Plan?
It's like AMD and Intel. Intel only tolerates AMD legally because they need to point out that they have a competitor in the marketplace...of their own making.
EU is like that to the US.
I'm more of a Monroe person myself. There's still regional alliances in a modern, networked world. The best defense is a strong region.
397 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:34am |
398 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:41am |
re: #388 Walter L. Newton
They should at least put some numbing gel on it until you get pain meds if you are out.
399 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:46am |
re: #385 lawhawk
I can almost imagine this being practical in Paris, or NYC, Hong Kong. But in Dubai?
NASA could lease the top for astronaut training!
400 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:05am |
re: #393 MandyManners
John and John Quincy Adams.
William Henry and Benjamin Harrison. And the Roosevelts and the Bushes. Not to mention the Royal Kennedys.
401 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:01am |
re: #364 Walter L. Newton
(I hear that sometimes the pain may be due to the amount of bone that's been removed (along with the tooth)...so if there's bone loss, it takes a while to heal...and can be very painful..)
402 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:43am |
Officials of one allied nation who have been extensively briefed on the president's plan said, however, that Mr. Obama would describe how the American presence would be ratcheted back after the buildup
LOL, is it even possible to have a more incompetent president?
403 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:44am |
re: #391 Boogberg
Glad someone can afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work. I wouldn't be wining like a sissy if I could.
I don't understand your comment at all. Let me tell you something, I have been trying to take care of my dental problem for the last 5 years, and I have spent thousands of dollars on them, ALL OUT OF MY OWN POCKET.
It was only last month that I finally became covered by any sort of dental insurance, and my copay is still 50 percent.
I have not had a full time job for FIVE years. I have had no employer supplied health or dental insurance for FIVE years.
I have taken care of most of my problems on my own.
Your comment sounded snooty to me, please tell me it wasn't?
404 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:03am |
re: #394 Alouette
I can't afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work, that's why I brush and floss every day and have regular cleaning appointments.
An ounce of prevention, as they say.
Regular cleaning appointments, eh? Is your dad a dental hygienist?
405 | cliffster Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:04am |
* wakes up from tryptophan-induced slumber *
Sup?
406 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:05am |
re: #400 Alouette
William Henry and Benjamin Harrison. And the Roosevelts and the Bushes. Not to mention the Royal Kennedys.
We dodged a bullet (somewhat) in the last presidential election. I'm by no means pleased with President Obama, but it is a nice change of pace from being governed by the Bushes and the Clintons.
Could you freakin' imagine it? 4 years of HW Bush, 8 years of WJ Clinton, 8 years of W Bush, and then another spell with the Clintons?
407 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:02am |
re: #391 Boogberg
Glad someone can afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work. I wouldn't be wining like a sissy if I could.
After reading your comment closely, I realize it is snotty, so, I have a little word for you... FUCK OFF.
re: #404 Boogberg
Regular cleaning appointments, eh? Is your dad a dental hygienist?
Hey, jerk, some people pay for this stuff out of their own pocket. What the fuck is wrong with you?
408 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:20am |
409 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:34am |
re: #403 Walter L. Newton
I don't understand your comment at all. Let me tell you something, I have been trying to take care of my dental problem for the last 5 years, and I have spent thousands of dollars on them, ALL OUT OF MY OWN POCKET.
It was only last month that I finally became covered by any sort of dental insurance, and my copay is still 50 percent.
I have not had a full time job for FIVE years. I have had no employer supplied health or dental insurance for FIVE years.
I have taken care of most of my problems on my own.
Your comment sounded snooty to me, please tell me it wasn't?
You issued a "whine" alert.
410 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:11am |
re: #409 Boogberg
You issued a "whine" alert.
I'll tell you what, I think you need to make a booze run, get back and mellow out. You are acting like a fucking jerk.
411 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:15am |
412 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:20am |
413 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:54am |
414 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:38am |
re: #411 albusteve
well aren't you the perfect asshole
Yep. Boogberg is acting like the north end of a southbound horse.
415 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:09am |
re: #396 gregb
So you think we should go in, kick ass, and then leave the locals to clean up without any assistance from us?
416 | cliffster Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:28am |
re: #413 Walter L. Newton
And you issued "Booberg is a fucking idiot alert."
Actually, I looked back at the comment and it didn't have that alert. It came without any preliminary announcement.
417 | Frogmarch Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:29am |
re: #391 Boogberg
Glad someone can afford thousands of dollars worth of dental work. I wouldn't be wining like a sissy if I could.
Lemme guess? You're a proggie.
418 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:31am |
I just read the "Seven Stories Obama Does Not Want Told at Politico.
Ouch x 7!
419 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:59am |
421 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:04am |
re: #418 Rightwingconspirator
I just read the "Seven Stories Obama Does Not Want Told at Politico.
Ouch x 7!
He is turning out to be a buffoon greater than my wildest fears.
422 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:23am |
re: #420 MandyManners
Who's gonna' mop up all this pee?
Cleaning is traditionally the woman's job, yes?
/dives into bunker
423 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:25am |
424 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:46am |
re: #418 Rightwingconspirator
I just read the "Seven Stories Obama Does Not Want Told at Politico.
Ouch x 7!
Link?
425 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:07am |
426 | cliffster Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:13am |
re: #422 Dark_Falcon
Cleaning is traditionally the woman's job, yes?
/dives into bunker
Dear Lizards:
Your mother doesn't post here.
- Staff
427 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:17am |
re: #422 Dark_Falcon
Cleaning is traditionally the woman's job, yes?
/dives into bunker
Good thing I'm in a good mood or else I'd launch a bunker-buster at your butt.
428 | Cathypop Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:19am |
Boogberg
Never ever insult someone when they have a toothache.
As Mandy would say "WHACK!"
429 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:20am |
430 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:45am |
431 | Frogmarch Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:57am |
re: #403 Walter L. Newton
You rich bastard - how dare you go to the dentist. Going to the dentist is for wealthy snobs. Wait until congress votes to push us down the road to government run health insurance - then you can go to the dentist. Properly. Until then, you must suffer.
///
432 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:08am |
re: #422 Dark_Falcon
Cleaning is traditionally the woman's job, yes?
/dives into bunker
*whackwhackwhack*
433 | Frogmarch Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:06am |
434 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:13am |
re: #428 Cathypop
Boogberg
Never ever insult someone when they have a toothache.
As Mandy would say "WHACK!"
I've had all my teeth pulled. I know about tooth pain.
435 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:19am |
436 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:20am |
437 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:44am |
438 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:52am |
Was his about face on Honduras one of them? THAT is an embarrassment. One of the seven that is. It is one not being reported on ATM. That he now supports the Honduran government. Something he should have done from the get go.
439 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:03am |
441 | cliffster Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:09am |
442 | albusteve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:20am |
re: #434 Boogberg
I've had all my teeth pulled. I know about tooth pain.
who cares what you know?...not me...I know all about pain too, so what?
443 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:23am |
re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar
Just when he thought it was safe...
The whacks just him my overhead protection. And I was only kidding. Sometimes its fun to set someone off a little. Best not to do it often, and I don't intend to make a crack like that for a long time.
444 | Guanxi88 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:52:37am |
445 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:54:14am |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
The whacks just him my overhead protection. And I was only kidding. Sometimes its fun to set someone off a little. Best not to do it often, and I don't intend to make a crack like that for a long time.
I thought about saying what you said. It was funny.
446 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:54:25am |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
The whacks just hit my overhead protection. And I was only kidding. Sometimes its fun to set someone off a little. Best not to do it often, and I don't intend to make a crack like that for a long time.
PIMF
447 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:28am |
re: #415 Sharmuta
So you think we should go in, kick ass, and then leave the locals to clean up without any assistance from us?
Yes and no. I think there's a middle ground. I think trying to use the US military in a different way that it was purposed is an organizational problem pre-destined for failure. All post-mortem's on all the wars fought in the past 60 years have show that lack of immediate and overwhelming security has been the main hindrance to meaningful nation building.
If you are going to rebuild a nation, it should be rebuilt in our image--not rebuilt exactly the way it was before (often dysfunctional).
Japan and Germany are great examples of doing it correctly.
448 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:31am |
re: #404 Boogberg
Regular cleaning appointments, eh? Is your dad a dental hygienist?
I can afford $120 twice a year.
449 | gregb Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:46am |
re: #434 Boogberg
I've had all my teeth pulled. I know about tooth pain.
I watched Marathon man once.
450 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:01am |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
The whacks just him my overhead protection. And I was only kidding. Sometimes its fun to set someone off a little. Best not to do it often, and I don't intend to make a crack like that for a long time.
I laughed, too.
451 | cliffster Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:29am |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
The whacks just him my overhead protection. And I was only kidding. Sometimes its fun to set someone off a little. Best not to do it often, and I don't intend to make a crack like that for a long time.
sissy
452 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:41am |
re: #434 Boogberg
I've had all my teeth pulled. I know about tooth pain.
And what does that have to do with your smart-assed remark to me (which you haven't addressed yet)? I've had all my upper teeth pulled, all at the same time, it's not that uncommon. So, what is your point.
I was simply making chatter, Monday morning "how's everyone" and "here's where I'm at this morning" and you jump in and get trash mouth.
It there some reason you thought this was a good way to jump into the conversation, or do you just like to start shit?
453 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:00:39am |
re: #449 gregb
I've even watched Little Shop of Horrors - the movie and the Broadway show. I wouldn't want to wish tooth pain on anyone. It can be a real bitch.
Walter,
Feel better, and definitely ask your dentist about the pain. As some others have pointed out, the pain could be a sign of an infection, or it could be a bone bruise from the extraction. In either case, your dentist/oral surgeon should have something to help with the pain.
454 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:01:30am |
I go to the bedroom to put on my socks and shoes, and I have this red healer snoring away, curled up with his head on my smelly pillow. It's 22 degrees outside and he likes to sneak into the bedroom and cosy up. He knows he's not allowed on the beds. I never have the heart to tell him to get off, he looks so comfortable.
455 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:01:47am |
re: #452 Walter L. Newton
Well, some folks do like to stir things up for no real reason except that they can do so. Just focus on trying to feel better.
456 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:03am |
re: #423 MandyManners
What's a "proggie"?
I thought he meant perogie which, btw, rule.
[Link: allrecipes.com...]
457 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:05am |
My best friend is a dentist. I haven't paid a dental bill in over 20 years. I must be a real jerk.
I lost my front teeth in semi pro fight trying to block an axe kick with a fore arm. It smarted. I learned.
458 | Boogberg Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:28am |
re: #452 Walter L. Newton
And what does that have to do with your smart-assed remark to me (which you haven't addressed yet)? I've had all my upper teeth pulled, all at the same time, it's not that uncommon. So, what is your point.
I was simply making chatter, Monday morning "how's everyone" and "here's where I'm at this morning" and you jump in and get trash mouth.
It there some reason you thought this was a good way to jump into the conversation, or do you just like to start shit?
I think you're a bully, Walter.
459 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:41am |
re: #453 lawhawk
I've even watched Little Shop of Horrors - the movie and the Broadway show. I wouldn't want to wish tooth pain on anyone. It can be a real bitch.
Walter,
Feel better, and definitely ask your dentist about the pain. As some others have pointed out, the pain could be a sign of an infection, or it could be a bone bruise from the extraction. In either case, your dentist/oral surgeon should have something to help with the pain.
I have a noon appointment to have the first fitting on my partials, I'm pointing this out before he tries to stick anything into my mouth. And if it's something wrong with that "hole" I suspect he won't be able to fit any partials until he fixes what ever is wrong with the extraction area.
460 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:45am |
re: #458 Boogberg
I think you're a bully, Walter.
And I think you're a smartass. You picked this fight.
462 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:12am |
re: #459 Walter L. Newton
Do you have any hydrogen peroxide?
If so, you can make a 1/2 peroxide, 1/2 water solution and gargle. Tastes terrible, but it will help reduce the pain if it is an infection.
463 | Capitalist Tool Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:20am |
News now reporting Tacoma killer not in house...
464 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:56am |
re: #457 filetandrelease
My best friend is a dentist. I haven't paid a dental bill in over 20 years. I must be a real jerk.
I lost my front teeth in semi pro fight trying to block an axe kick with a fore arm. It smarted. I learned.
I graduated HS with my dentist. He called me at work one night after an appointment. Asked if I needed pain meds. Told him I only had a cleaning. Not kidding.
466 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:06:43am |
re: #458 Boogberg
And you are a jerk and a coward. You talked crap and when Walter called you on it, instead of admitting that you were wrong, you whined that you were being "bullied". Shape up or fuck off.
467 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:07:08am |
re: #464 Cannadian Club Akbar
I graduated HS with my dentist. He called me at work one night after an appointment. Asked if I needed pain meds. Told him I only had a cleaning. Not kidding.
Me too, we ran track and wrestled together at 15.
468 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:07:27am |
re: #462 Sharmuta
Do you have any hydrogen peroxide?
If so, you can make a 1/2 peroxide, 1/2 water solution and gargle. Tastes terrible, but it will help reduce the pain if it is an infection.
Good idea. I'm going to head downhill in a few minutes, I need to do some banking and I am going to get to the dentist office a bit early and see if they can look at this before noon.
It not often I get infections or even have pain problems, I've been up and working two days after hernia operations. I have a high tolerance for pain.
But this is annoying.
469 | Bear Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:08:00am |
A trip to the dentist is not the most fun I have had. However Walter I hope that you do not have to kick the dentist as I did when the Army Butcher, also known as a dentist, did not give me enough pain killer.
471 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:09:20am |
re: #468 Walter L. Newton
Try to gargle for about a minute. Should at least ease the pain, if not more.
472 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:10:12am |
re: #469 Bear
A trip to the dentist is not the most fun I have had. However Walter I hope that you do not have to kick the dentist as I did when the Army Butcher, also known as a dentist, did not give me enough pain killer.
Well, this past Monday my regular dentist had to send me to a oral surgeon, to dig out a root that he had left after an extraction, so the oral surgeon did the root extraction and a full extraction that I needed. He did BOTH in under 15 minutes, I never had anyone work so fast pulling teeth.
I felt like I was in a M.A.S.H unit or something. And it's the full extraction "hole" that is hurting and may be infected.
473 | Walter L. Newton Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:10:46am |
re: #471 Sharmuta
Try to gargle for about a minute. Should at least ease the pain, if not more.
I'll try that and I'm out of here. Be back this afternoon.
By all.
475 | Bear Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:12:51am |
re: #472 Walter L. Newton
Yes it is quite a surprise to go for a filling and have the tooth pulled instead.
476 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:24am |
Uganda is trying to pass a law that would penalize homosexuality with death.
This article is about how "The Family" may be directly involved in Uganda's government.
Does anyone here know how influential/powerful/relevant "The Family" really is?
477 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:15:41am |
re: #476 Obdicut
Yeah, we've already seen that article.
478 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:16:16am |
re: #474 gregb
Wow, they upped the reward to $125,000. When I first read the story, I thought 10k was a little shallow.
It is now safe to say that Huck won't be the next Repulican nominee to win the primary.
479 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:16:49am |
Vatican and Muslims condemn Swiss minaret ban vote
Religious leaders across the world have criticised Switzerland's referendum vote to ban the building of minarets.The Vatican joined Muslim figureheads from Indonesia and Egypt, as well as Switzerland, in denouncing the vote as a blow to religious freedom.
481 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:52am |
re: #477 MandyManners
Yeah, we've already seen that article.
Sorry, it was new to me. I'll search the LGF archives.
482 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:28am |
re: #479 Killgore Trout
Eurofascists are thrilled...
But Marine Le Pen, the deputy-leader of France's far-right National Front, praised the outcome, and said France should now hold a wider referendum on multiculturalism."The elites should stop denying the hopes and fears of European peoples who, without opposing religious freedom, reject ostentatious symbols forced on them by politico-religious Muslim groups, often verging on provocation," she was quoted as saying by Agence France Presse.
In Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands, anti-immigrant movements called on their own governments to debate similar measures.
"What can be done in Switzerland, can be done here," said Geert Wilders, the head of the Freedom Party in the Netherlands.
Meanwhile Roberto Calderoli, a member of Italy's Northern League, which is part of the country's ruling coalition, said: "Switzerland is sending us a clear signal: yes to bell towers, no to minarets."
483 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:25am |
re: #482 Killgore Trout
Eurofascists are thrilled...
Of course they are. It was the Swiss fascist party that promoted this.
484 | Killgore Trout Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:42am |
re: #480 Sharmuta
It's a curious story, I still don't know how much there is to it. It's a serious accusation.
485 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:20:50am |
re: #482 Killgore Trout
Eurofascists are thrilled...
I can't believe I used to think Wilders was a decent person. What a shithead he turned out to be.
486 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:21:10am |
re: #484 Killgore Trout
(what does "it" refer to? the Family (Fellowship) story or the Swiss banning minarets?)
487 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:21:19am |
re: #485 Dark_Falcon
I can't believe I used to think Wilders was a decent person. What a shithead he turned out to be.
A lot of the Eurofascist type started out that way. I used to like Robert Spencer, and we all know how that turned out.
488 | Daniel Ballard Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:19am |
re: #424 MandyManners
Sorry Mandy I should have linked. I think I was in it from a LGF front page link though.
489 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:46am |
re: #484 Killgore Trout
It's a curious story, I still don't know how much there is to it. It's a serious accusation.
You have a good eye, so I'll go with your instincts.
490 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:25am |
I hear ACORN may change their name, sure makes me feel better about them. CHANGE!
491 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:28am |
re: #488 Rightwingconspirator
Sorry Mandy I should have linked. I think I was in it from a LGF front page link though.
It's amusing to watch a narcissist play out his drama on a global stage.
492 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:47am |
re: #490 filetandrelease
I hear ACORN may change their name, sure makes me feel better about them. CHANGE!
To what?
493 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:27:41am |
494 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:28:19am |
re: #485 Dark_Falcon
I supported Wilders and his right to free speech, but his fascist tendencies make me exceedingly wary of him and his politics, to say nothing of who he associates with.
495 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:28:45am |
re: #489 Sharmuta
What story, though? Is it that NPR story about "The Family"? (personally, it sounds like a typical conspiracy story...)
496 | Ben Hur Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:29:26am |
re: #476 Obdicut
Uganda is trying to pass a law that would penalize homosexuality with death.
This article is about how "The Family" may be directly involved in Uganda's government.
Does anyone here know how influential/powerful/relevant "The Family" really is?
OMG.
Deadheads are destroying Uganda!
498 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:29:44am |
re: #493 filetandrelease
Not sure, but I am thinking PORN.
They have acted obscenely at times, and I'm not talking about the under-cover hooker stuff.
501 | Ben Hur Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:30:31am |
502 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:02am |
re: #494 lawhawk
At first Wilders just seemed to be supporting the freedoms and civil liberties of his fellow libertarians...but then, gradually, it became clear that he harbored bigoted views (banning the Koran, etc.)
503 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:51am |
re: #498 MandyManners
They have acted obscenely at times, and I'm not talking about the under-cover hooker stuff.
I'm sure it is a daily routine for them nuts.
504 | lawhawk Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:32:54am |
re: #476 Obdicut
Not sure, but there's a Rick Warren angle there too. It seems he's not willing to condemn the law that would provide the death penalty for HIV positive men who engage in "aggravated homosexuality".
His position is raising eyebrows, not the least of which was Newsweek, which noted his position Sunday. Warren has been supportive of a Ugandan pastor behind the legislation, Martin Ssempa, hosting him during visits to the United States at his Saddleback church.Warren tried to distance himself from Ssempa in October, saying, "Martin Ssempa does not represent me, my wife Kay, Saddleback Church, nor the Global PEACE Plan strategy."
But this month, asked on whether he opposed a measure under which homosexual acts are punishable by life in prison or sometimes death, Warren refused to condemn the proposal.
He said he can't comment on the laws of other nations. Well, sure he can. He just would reveal himself to all the world as a bigot and supporting laws that would put someone to death for their sexual orientation.
505 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:34:54am |
re: #504 lawhawk
Not sure, but there's a Rick Warren angle there too. It seems he's not willing to condemn the law that would provide the death penalty for HIV positive men who engage in "aggravated homosexuality".
He said he can't comment on the laws of other nations. Well, sure he can. He just would reveal himself to all the world as a bigot and supporting laws that would put someone to death for their sexual orientation.
What an asshole. It seems its "Asshole Day" in the news today.
506 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:50am |
re: #497 Sharmuta
(Steven Harper -- Prime Minister of Canada -- he was at that latest little get together of the Commonwealth countries -- the get-together was held in Trinidad and Tobago last week. Harper, I believe is an evangelical christian -- and he scolded Uganda for its proposed legislation...link here.So, why isn't Harper "part of the conspiracy?" I also suspect that if Uganda tries to put this law into effect, they could be expelled from the Commonwealth.)
507 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:36:32am |
508 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:37:58am |
re: #504 lawhawk
The proposed law would also penalize anyone for not reporting homosexual activity to the authorities within 24 hours -- that would be a jail term of 3 to 4 years. There are other absolutely bizarre aspects of this proposed Uganda law...
509 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:40:01am |
re: #503 filetandrelease
I'm sure it is a daily routine for them nuts.
I'm still wondering how that San Diego investigator (Derrick Roach) knew exactly when to dive into that dumpster. I think someone at that office tipped him.
511 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:41:05am |
re: #504 lawhawk
Not sure, but there's a Rick Warren angle there too. It seems he's not willing to condemn the law that would provide the death penalty for HIV positive men who engage in "aggravated homosexuality".
He said he can't comment on the laws of other nations. Well, sure he can. He just would reveal himself to all the world as a bigot and supporting laws that would put someone to death for their sexual orientation.
How soon before BHO shows him the underside of his bus?
512 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:34am |
re: #509 MandyManners
I'm still wondering how that San Diego investigator (Derrick Roach) knew exactly when to dive into that dumpster. I think someone at that office tipped him.
Good possibility. Or since the AG just annoinced an investigation into that office a couple of days prior he may have just done some basic investigative work.
513 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:36am |
514 | brookly red Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:52am |
re: #508 J.S.
The proposed law would also penalize anyone for not reporting homosexual activity to the authorities within 24 hours -- that would be a jail term of 3 to 4 years. There are other absolutely bizarre aspects of this proposed Uganda law...
If the goal is to discourage homosexual activity maybe incarceration is not the way to go.
515 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:44:23am |
re: #513 Dark_Falcon
That's actually pretty damning on the surface, though with AGW stories you have to dig a bit to sure. Even if it turns out to be innocent, the deniers are going to kill UEA with this disclosure.
Lately, you kinda get the impression the AGW group are trying hide something.
516 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:49:09am |
re: #506 J.S.
Reading up on the Commonwealth, it says Sudan, Algeria, Madagascar and Yemen have applied to join? Umm... don't some of those countries have their own human rights issues that would prevent them from joining?
517 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:50:55am |
re: #513 Dark_Falcon
I suspect it all depends...The article notes that the paper and tape records were dumped -- but if the data on that paper and tape were recorded to an electronic file (eg, entered into a data recording program on a computer), then that's still "raw data" -- prior to being processed...or analysed)
519 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:54:17am |
re: #516 Sharmuta
Yes, indeed. Plus some of those countries don't have a colonial past related to Britain...(with Algeria, it's France, of course..) There are only 2 countries now in the Commonwealth without a link to Britain's colonial days -- Madagasar and one other...(I've forgotten which one)...
523 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:57:23am |
re: #512 filetandrelease
Good possibility. Or since the AG just annoinced an investigation into that office a couple of days prior he may have just done some basic investigative work.
Wouldn't he have had to know the garbage pick-up day so that he'd get to it before the truuck did?
524 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:58:32am |
re: #517 J.S.
I suspect it all depends...The article notes that the paper and tape records were dumped -- but if the data on that paper and tape were recorded to an electronic file (eg, entered into a data recording program on a computer), then that's still "raw data" -- prior to being processed...or analysed)
Agreed. This may be another bogus story, but it still looks bad. And with a major AGW summit upcoming, looks are more important than facts, because politicians deal mainly with appearances.
525 | Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:59:17am |
re: #523 MandyManners
Wouldn't he have had to know the garbage pick-up day so that he'd get to it before the truuck did?
He could just call the dumpster company. I'm sure more then 1 storefront used it unless it was a free standing building.
526 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:00:07am |
re: #525 Cannadian Club Akbar
He could just call the dumpster company. I'm sure more then 1 storefront used it unless it was a free standing building.
All the more damning for ACORN.
527 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:00:13am |
re: #518 spinmore
Would you please bite me? And then piss off.
528 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:00:43am |
re: #520 filetandrelease
Yes. I know if someone is doing "qualatative research" -- eg, you might make tape recordings of an interview, then later transcribe that interview. You are required to retain the original tape-recordings...the transcription isn't good enough (for the benefit of future researchers, etc.)
529 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:01:07am |
re: #524 Dark_Falcon
Agreed. This may be another bogus story, but it still looks bad. And with a major AGW summit upcoming, looks are more important than facts, because politicians deal mainly with appearances.
It IS a bogus story. I don't believe you're even questioning that after the post I put up yesterday.
NO DATA IS MISSING.
530 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:01:50am |
re: #523 MandyManners
Wouldn't he have had to know the garbage pick-up day so that he'd get to it before the truuck did?
Or he had them under surveillance anticipating a data dump after the announcement by the AG. If Brown does his job, LOL, we will find out. But Brown already threw his cards on the table. He is more interested in protecting ACORNs privacy, even though CA privacy laws regarding garbage have already been overturned by the Supreme Court.
531 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:02:09am |
re: #513 Dark_Falcon
That's actually pretty damning on the surface, though with AGW stories you have to dig a bit to sure. Even if it turns out to be innocent, the deniers are going to kill UEA with this disclosure.
I don't think there is anything to this. If they kept digital copies of the paper data, there is nothing wrong with dumping the originals. Thousands upon thousands of companies do this every day. Storing paper files is costly and space consuming. So companies will convert to digital, and dump their paper. There is nothing sinister about it.
532 | brookly red Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:02:48am |
re: #523 MandyManners
Wouldn't he have had to know the garbage pick-up day so that he'd get to it before the truuck did?
Maybe the whole thing is a scam... maybe ACORN dumped a bunch of documents that would in the end make them appear to be righteous and then tipped off the investigators so they could "find" them & give ACORN a reason to cry victim? maybe :)
533 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:03:59am |
re: #529 Charles
It IS a bogus story. I don't believe you're even questioning that after the post I put up yesterday.
NO DATA IS MISSING.
I had forgotten that post. It went up while I was at work, and I sometimes miss those when get home. Please excuse my error.
534 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:04:30am |
re: #532 brookly red
Maybe the whole thing is a scam... maybe ACORN dumped a bunch of documents that would in the end make them appear to be righteous and then tipped off the investigators so they could "find" them & give ACORN a reason to cry victim? maybe :)
Now that really is funny.
536 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:04:56am |
re: #530 filetandrelease
Or he had them under surveillance anticipating a data dump after the announcement by the AG. If Brown does his job, LOL, we will find out. But Brown already threw his cards on the table. He is more interested in protecting ACORNs privacy, even though CA privacy laws regarding garbage have already been overturned by the Supreme Court.
AG Moonbean covering up for a buncha' moonbats?
537 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:05:22am |
re: #535 wrenchwench
That accurately summarizes my current mental abilities, if not my real physical state.
538 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:05:41am |
re: #527 Charles
Well, I guess I'll turn on my stove. Instead of grilled troll for dinner. we'll have fried troll for lunch.
539 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:05:50am |
re: #535 wrenchwench
It's the morning after a 4-day weekend. Thanksgiving weekend, no less. That pretty much sums up the entirety of my work team today.
540 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:05:54am |
re: #532 brookly red
Maybe the whole thing is a scam... maybe ACORN dumped a bunch of documents that would in the end make them appear to be righteous and then tipped off the investigators so they could "find" them & give ACORN a reason to cry victim? maybe :)
Opening themselves up to a possible suit from one of their clients whose confidential information was dumped?
541 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:06:12am |
Speaking of København (well, we weren't, but now I am), I read in The Nation today (which I get as an eternally renewed subscription from my leftist family every year) that the Seattle movement people are planning to storm the conference hall with bicycles on December 16.
That should go a long way toward reversing global warming.
542 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:07:05am |
re: #540 MandyManners
Opening themselves up to a possible suit from one of their clients whose confidential information was dumped?
A bad plan. But then, that is not what happened. It was a panic attack, poorly executed. By idiots.
543 | brookly red Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:07:11am |
544 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:08:23am |
re: #539 thedopefishlives
It's the morning after a 4-day weekend. Thanksgiving weekend, no less. That pretty much sums up the entirety of my work team today.
The Kid had a full week off so I was not looking forward to getting him going this morning but, he hopped out of bed all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed!
545 | Ericus58 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:00am |
re: #541 Cato the Elder
There are times that living here is this side of theater... I'll stick to the Eastside foothills
546 | brookly red Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:49am |
re: #540 MandyManners
Opening themselves up to a possible suit from one of their clients whose confidential information was dumped?
Cut off the finger to save the rest of the body?
If they actually did plant the "evidence" they would only plant the things they wanted to be found, yes?
547 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:56am |
re: #542 filetandrelease
A bad plan. But then, that is not what happened. It was a panic attack, poorly executed. By idiots.
Schur said they normally shred stuff. Maybe they didn't think they had time to do that.
548 | wrenchwench Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:10:04am |
re: #541 Cato the Elder
Speaking of København (well, we weren't, but now I am), I read in The Nation today (which I get as an eternally renewed subscription from my leftist family every year) that the Seattle movement people are planning to storm the conference hall with bicycles on December 16.
That should go a long way toward reversing global warming.
And improving the image of cyclists everywhere.
549 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:10:56am |
re: #546 brookly red
Cut off the finger to save the rest of the body?
If they actually did plant the "evidence" they would only plant the things they wanted to be found, yes?
Oh, I don't think they planted anything. I initially wondered if someone is upset with the way things are going in that office and decided to tip off someone.
550 | filetandrelease Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:05am |
re: #547 MandyManners
Schur said they normally shred stuff. Maybe they didn't think they had time to do that.
Or he lied.
551 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:29am |
re: #541 Cato the Elder
Speaking of København (well, we weren't, but now I am), I read in The Nation today (which I get as an eternally renewed subscription from my leftist family every year) that the Seattle movement people are planning to storm the conference hall with bicycles on December 16.
That should go a long way toward reversing global warming.
I hope they enjoy getting pounded by riot police. Even in Denmark, the government is not going to allow a crowd into a bulding with that sort of summit going on.
552 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:12:07am |
re: #529 Charles
It IS a bogus story. I don't believe you're even questioning that after the post I put up yesterday.
NO DATA IS MISSING.
Rush is in full rant over this, chanting over and over that "There is no AGW!", compariing it to the Tobacco industrie's suppression of studies, saying the CRU needs to be taken to court, and ending with a defense of the Tobacco industry. Then he cut to ads, where in the KC area we got a Cigar Box ad, and an ad for an end of times Kookspiracist book complete with NWO, "The Obama Deception".
553 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:12:08am |
554 | Big Steve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:12:18am |
Anyone want a hot NASA tip? There are something like five space shuttle flights remaining before the program ends next September. Word is that the administration wants to extend the time for those flights. There still would be only five more flights but they would be scheduled over three years. This would keep the shuttle flying and bridge the gap till the next generation rockets are ready. Heard this direct from one of the astronauts.
555 | RogueOne Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:13:20am |
re: #529 Charles
It IS a bogus story. I don't believe you're even questioning that after the post I put up yesterday.
NO DATA IS MISSING.
If I understood the story you posted yesterday they did dump their data but the data is still available from the original sources. The CRU just didn't have the room to keep their duplicates...Right?
556 | brookly red Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:13:30am |
re: #549 MandyManners
Oh, I don't think they planted anything. I initially wondered if someone is upset with the way things are going in that office and decided to tip off someone.
More than likley yes, but there is quiet a bit of money at risk & money makes people creative sometimes...
557 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:13:51am |
re: #551 Dark_Falcon
I hope they enjoy getting pounded by riot police. Even in Denmark, the government is not going to allow a crowd into a bulding with that sort of summit going on.
They actually do enjoy that. Protesting in Yurp is a full-body contact sport. And you get pictures of police brutality that you can use to rile up other people and show to keffiyeh-wearing Danish sluts when you want to get a sympathy fuck.
558 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:14:03am |
I wondered where all the hate mail was coming from this morning -- more than a dozen raging, insulting emails -- and now I know. It's from a link at racist paleocon Lew Rockwell's site.
559 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:15:07am |
re: #552 Thanos
Rush is in full rant over this, chanting over and over that "There is no AGW!", compariing it to the Tobacco industrie's suppression of studies, saying the CRU needs to be taken to court, and ending with a defense of the Tobacco industry. Then he cut to ads, where in the KC area we got a Cigar Box ad, and an ad for an end of times Kookspiracist book complete with NWO, "The Obama Deception".
"The Obama Deception" is the Alex Jones movie. There's no longer much difference at all between Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh.
560 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:47am |
re: #558 Charles
I wondered where all the hate mail was coming from this morning -- more than a dozen raging, insulting emails -- and now I know. It's from a link at racist paleocon Lew Rockwell's site.
...Congratulations? What does one say to a guy who got linked by a troll?
561 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:17:00am |
re: #535 wrenchwench
Good Morning! That looks like what my little dog does in the morning..
The Arctic weather arrives in Indiana in 2 days..Dang I hate winter..But there is one thing I like...When I ask Winston if he wants to go outside and he gets all excited and jumps up and down..I open the door and watch him run outside at a 100mph...make it 10 steps then stop in shock and turn around and try to run back inside to no avail...Sorry Winston..You wanted to play...Hehehe...
562 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:18am |
re: #559 Charles
"The Obama Deception" is the Alex Jones movie. There's no longer much difference at all between Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh.
I must concur with that assessment. If Limbaugh is taking material from Jones and running ads for Jones, then he has no problem with Jones. And if you don't have a problem with Alex Jones, then you are almost certainly a far-out loon yourself.
563 | Achilles Tang Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:40am |
re: #555 RogueOne
If I understood the story you posted yesterday they did dump their data but the data is still available from the original sources. The CRU just didn't have the room to keep their duplicates...Right?
That would seem logical, but in all of this do these screamers really believe that all the actually measured planetary temperature data for the past 100 years or whatever it is, is all "owned" and stored at one location on the planet where any old mad scientist can delete or change it at will?
564 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:53am |
re: #559 Charles
It's always been my theory that you can gauge the demographics of audience and quality of any big media show or site by the ads they get. The only exception I make is for "google" adsense keyword stuff, where mentioning nazis might get you ads for strange sites.
565 | Big Steve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:20:02am |
re: #558 Charles
I wondered where all the hate mail was coming from this morning -- more than a dozen raging, insulting emails -- and now I know. It's from a link at racist paleocon Lew Rockwell's site.
I see the Large Hadron went over 1 TeV over the weekend...maybe the hate mail is from the future.
566 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:20:56am |
I'm beginning to realize exactly how the scientists at CRU feel, having to constantly refute the same bogus talking points over and over and over and over and ...
Even though I've shown that no data was destroyed by the CRU, and that the original data is still available from the NOAA, denier after denier keeps popping up saying, "They DESTROYED THE DATA! What are they hiding?!? Evil scientists! Burn them!"
It's beyond frustrating. It's into the realm of mass hysteria and delusion.
567 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:21:21am |
re: #562 Dark_Falcon
The ad could be with the station for the timeslot, not directly with RL. But you see my 564.
568 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:22:18am |
re: #557 Cato the Elder
They actually do enjoy that. Protesting in Yurp is a full-body contact sport. And you get pictures of police brutality that you can use to rile up other people and show to keffiyeh-wearing Danish sluts when you want to get a sympathy fuck.
I agree, but there's nothing to be done about it. Though if the police there are smart, they'll use the crowd control techniques the NYPD showed in 2004. The police in New York were able to keep the crazies away from the GOP's convention without much violence. Throwing a net over the loons is better than clubbing them. No dramatic footage or wounds for them to use.
569 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:23:30am |
re: #566 Charles
Perhaps you should add some of the denialist sites to the ones you've blocked from the spinoffs. It's not much, but why should LGF be used to promote their agenda?
570 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:23:36am |
re: #568 Dark_Falcon
I agree, but there's nothing to be done about it. Though if the police there are smart, they'll use the crowd control techniques the NYPD showed in 2004. The police in New York were able to keep the crazies away from the GOP's convention without much violence. Throwing a net over the loons is better than clubbing them. No dramatic footage or wounds for them to use.
A net is just a net without a trident to match. Send in the Retiarii!
571 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:24:23am |
re: #315 Walter L. Newton
What is so important about the original data?
1. Axiomatic in science research, that the underlying "raw data" be made available for others to be able to access it and replicate your results.
2. The East Anglia statement, in plainspeak, says, "We dumped some raw data, but we kept the second generation data that was remained after we tweaked it."
-The issue on the table is whether the data has been cherry-picked or otherwise has been subjected to "ends-justified" filtering (i.e., to make sure the science supports the wished-for outcome). In this context, the lack of raw data may be quite debilitating. Suppose, for example (as is alleged with respect to the Yamal tree ring data) that you are trying to reconstruct data to determine whether a midieval warming period occurd, or the mean temperatures of this century. The "raw data" was, e.g., measurement data on the length of tree rings on 100 trees. That data has been thrown away; in its place, there is a "revised data set" that consists of 88 trees, or 109 trees, but NOT the original number of 100; and there are no records of which 12 trees in the raw data set were omitted, or which 9 trees were the added trees.
The foregoing is an example only (it is not the exact situation with Yamal) but it illustrates the problem with the lack of raw data -- it makes it impossible to verify a study, and it is particularly acute if there is a charge of cherry pciking or fudging involved.
Happy talk aside, those who question whether global warming is caused by manmade activities, have raised that exact issue: That the science is cherry-picked to evidence a pre-determined result. As such, the lack of raw data retention by the critical player in the science of it all, is damning.
***
I recall how the Sandy Berger apologists kept insisting that "no documents were destroyed, copies existed." That was the big lie; he did, in fact, destroy the only existing copies of documents (i.e., with handwritten margin notes), which were politically problematic for his principals.
572 | brookly red Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:24:59am |
re: #568 Dark_Falcon
I agree, but there's nothing to be done about it. Though if the police there are smart, they'll use the crowd control techniques the NYPD showed in 2004. The police in New York were able to keep the crazies away from the GOP's convention without much violence. Throwing a net over the loons is better than clubbing them. No dramatic footage or wounds for them to use.
& they only use dolphin safe nets btw.
573 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:25:04am |
re: #569 Sharmuta
Perhaps you should add some of the denialist sites to the ones you've blocked from the spinoffs. It's not much, but why should LGF be used to promote their agenda?
The denialist TP gets retreaded so much by the right and reposted that it would have to cover a lot of sites, don't think it would work. There are newspapers on the denialist bandwagon for instance.
574 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:26:22am |
re: #571 winemaker
I recall how the Sandy Berger apologists kept insisting that "no documents were destroyed, copies existed." That was the big lie; he did, in fact, destroy the only existing copies of documents (i.e., with handwritten margin notes), which were politically problematic for his principals.
There's a difference: Data is data. There are no margin notes; there's no metadata or "extras" to be gleaned from pages of numbers. It's ... DATA. A file on a computer is just as good as the original, as long as it's kept in a raw format.
575 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:26:23am |
I just have a simple question: Does being a global warming skeptic along the lines of Freeman Dyson make me a "denier"?
576 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:21am |
re: #570 Cato the Elder
A net is just a net without a trident to match. Send in the Retiarii!
"Retiarios", for the accusative.
Unless you're always supposed to use the nominative plural when using Latin in English?
577 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:29am |
re: #571 winemaker
The raw data is still there at the stations surveyed, just not at the CRU. Anyone who is truly interested can reconstitute it from the original data at the stations. If the denialists really had a smoking gun here don't you think they would take some time to create that competing study rather than hysterically scream hoax and foul?
578 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:49am |
re: #573 Thanos
Well- if a couple could be stopped, it might help. The rest of the bad stories would need to be reported by Lizards for deletion as we do now.
579 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:17am |
re: #575 Cato the Elder
If you are saying that man contributes zero to global warming, then yes.
580 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:29:38am |
re: #571 winemaker
No data was destroyed. All of the original data is available from the NOAA.
He said for the thousandth time.
581 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:30:38am |
re: #576 Obdicut
"Retiarios", for the accusative.
Unless you're always supposed to use the nominative plural when using Latin in English?
That's the general practice, actually. Wouldn't want to inflict random declension pain on οἱ πολλοί.
582 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:31:10am |
re: #579 Thanos
If you are saying that man contributes zero to global warming, then yes.
That is not what I or Freeman Dyson have ever said.
583 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:10am |
re: #580 Charles
No data was destroyed. All of the original data is available from the NOAA.
He said for the thousandth time.
Available to whom?
584 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:13am |
re: #570 Cato the Elder
A net is just a net without a trident to match. Send in the Retiarii!
And match them against Thracians! Well played, Cato!
585 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:35am |
re: #577 Thanos
The raw data is still there at the stations surveyed, just not at the CRU. Anyone who is truly interested can reconstitute it from the original data at the stations. If the denialists really had a smoking gun here don't you think they would take some time to create that competing study rather than hysterically scream hoax and foul?
This is a key point. The data is available from the NOAA. Why are the anti-AGW people just yelling about data being destroyed (it WASN'T) instead of getting in there and correlating the NOAA's raw data with the CRU's adjusted data, and proving to the world that there's a hoax?
The answer is simple -- because they know it's no hoax, and they know that if they did correlate the data they would find NOTHING wrong. So instead, they yell and scream and lie about "destroyed data" in order to poison the well and trick the gullible. It's disgusting.
586 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:58am |
re: #581 Cato the Elder
That's the general practice, actually. Wouldn't want to inflict random declension pain on οἱ πολλοί.
I guess it does make sense, in so far as using foreign words inside a language makes any sense anyway; as long as it's rule based.
I can stop declining now.
587 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:33:22am |
re: #583 Cato the Elder
Available to whom?
The NOAA is very open to sharing data. Go ahead, ask them for it if you don't believe me.
588 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:34:05am |
re: #580 Charles
As a teacher, you have to remember that you need to repeat things many, many, many times over...(eventually, it might stick...)
589 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:34:24am |
re: #586 Obdicut
I guess it does make sense, in so far as using foreign words inside a language makes any sense anyway; as long as it's rule based.
I can stop declining now.
If you can stop declining, you should bottle that and sell it as the elixir of eternal youth.
Me, I can't even stop reclining. ;^)
590 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:35:12am |
re: #587 Charles
The NOAA is very open to sharing data. Go ahead, ask them for it if you don't believe me.
I was merely asking, and have no reason to doubt you.
Not all research institutes are eager to share their raw data.
591 | wrenchwench Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:36:05am |
re: #575 Cato the Elder
I just have a simple question: Does being a global warming skeptic along the lines of Freeman Dyson make me a "denier"?
You'd be a pretty weak denier:
I don’t claim to be an expert. I never did. I simply find that a lot of these claims that experts are making are absurd. Not that I know better, but I know a few things. My objections to the global warming propaganda are not so much over the technical facts, about which I do not know much, but it’s rather against the way those people behave and the kind of intolerance to criticism that a lot of them have.
592 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:36:23am |
[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]
[Link: www.google.com...]
[Link: woce.nodc.noaa.gov...]
There are tons of more sources, this is just from a quick google of satellite data sets.
593 | vxbush Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:37:03am |
re: #585 Charles
This is a key point. The data is available from the NOAA. Why are the anti-AGW people just yelling about data being destroyed (it WASN'T) instead of getting in there and correlating the NOAA's raw data with the CRU's adjusted data, and proving to the world that there's a hoax?
The answer is simple -- because they know it's no hoax, and they know that if they did correlate the data they would find NOTHING wrong. So instead, they yell and scream and lie about "destroyed data" in order to poison the well and trick the gullible. It's disgusting.
What about the code used to generate the graphs? That would also be helpful. Those aren't typically included in the papers, at least in most of the research papers I've seen. Some make it available via their web site, and that would be fantastic.
594 | Digital Display Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:37:46am |
re: #587 Charles
The NOAA is very open to sharing data. Go ahead, ask them for it if you don't believe me.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Policy on Partnerships in the Provision of Environmental Information strengthens the partnership among government, academia and the private sector which provides the nation with high quality environmental information.
[Link: www.noaa.gov...]
/You know they won't click the link
595 | SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:39:41am |
re: #572 brookly red
& they only use dolphin safe nets btw.
Because there might be dolphins charging City Hall on bicycles?
596 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:39:43am |
The Goddard Institute for Space Studies has made their source code available here:
[Link: data.giss.nasa.gov...]
And there are numerous sources for source code from other agencies. Nobody is hiding anything.
This bogus, dishonest talking point that climate scientists are "hiding" something is so stupid it's giving me a headache.
597 | vxbush Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:40:21am |
re: #596 Charles
The Goddard Institute for Space Studies has made their source code available here:
[Link: data.giss.nasa.gov...]
And there are numerous sources for source code from other agencies. Nobody is hiding anything.
This bogus, dishonest talking point that climate scientists are "hiding" something is so stupid it's giving me a headache.
Excellent. Raw meat...
598 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:41:44am |
re: #579 Thanos
If you are saying that man contributes zero to global warming, then yes.
re: #591 wrenchwench
This is what I take from Dyson's position:
When Dyson joins the public conversation about climate change by expressing concern about the “enormous gaps in our knowledge, the sparseness of our observations and the superficiality of our theories,” these reservations come from a place of experience. Whatever else he is, Dyson is the good scientist; he asks the hard questions. He could also be a lonely prophet. Or, as he acknowledges, he could be dead wrong.
Someone who questions the "consensus" but admits he could be completely wide of the mark is a man after my own heart.
599 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:42:26am |
Here's a couple of Googles to get you going if you want to create that competing graph and study:
[Link: www.google.com...]
[Link: www.google.com...]
Of course you will find these searches salted with some denialist sites, please head to the official sites if it's raw, not cherry picked data that you are looking for.
600 | Ben Hur Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:43:14am |
601 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:43:52am |
re: #598 Cato the Elder
Someone who questions the "consensus" but admits he could be completely wide of the mark is a man after my own heart.
Does Charles's irritation with having to correct the same misapprehensions over and over again perhaps cast light onto why the scientists in climatology tend to be intolerant of 'criticism' that's simply the same distortion dressed up in a new chicken suit?
602 | subsailor68 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:44:02am |
Hi all. The twisting of language on the CRU issue really kind of bothers me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me the bottom line is this:
The original (raw) data used is no longer on the servers used by the CRU - primarily, as I understand it, due to storage limitations.
Okay, it is factually correct to say "The raw data is no longer available there."
However, NOAA does have the raw data - and as Charles points out - it is available to those - presumably with a simple request - who choose to access it.
So, it is factually incorrect to say "The data has been destroyed."
The fact that it is no longer available one place, but is still available at another, quite simply means it has not been destroyed.
603 | Big Steve Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:44:49am |
The other key point in this whole tempest is that the raw data was not even generated by Mann et. al. They acquired it then did their analysis. That is like referencing another paper in your own. One doesn't have to keep copies of all the papers one cites. The assumption is that the originals will always be available from the authors or the bulk literature.
604 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:44:56am |
re: #601 Obdicut
Does Charles's irritation with having to correct the same misapprehensions over and over again perhaps cast light onto why the scientists in climatology tend to be intolerant of 'criticism' that's simply the same distortion dressed up in a new chicken suit?
I do not believe Dyson's criticism falls into that category.
605 | Ben Hur Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:32am |
UN marks November 29 'day of mourning'
WASHINGTON – The UN is currently marking the historic date of November 29 1947, the day in which it approved the partition plan separating Israel into two states – Jewish and Arabic.But while in Israel the date is celebratory, as it marks the end of the British mandate and the beginning of independent rule, the UN headquarters in New York and Geneva are holding ceremonies of mourning and solidarity with the Palestinian people.
606 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:43am |
re: #602 subsailor68
I can and have accessed the data from my house. I don't see what the beef is.
607 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:46:51am |
re: #591 wrenchwench
So Dyson admits he knows nothing about the actual science involved, but he's complaining anyways? That's not a very scientific approach, imo.
608 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:48:06am |
re: #604 Cato the Elder
I do not believe Dyson's criticism falls into that category.
How does it not? It's not a criticism of the 'technical' aspects-- in other words, the actual science, which he admits he has no grounds to criticize. It doesn't stop him from making a broad-brushed criticism of the field, of course, but it should.
609 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:49:49am |
re: #608 Obdicut
If a critic admits they don't know what they're talking about, it pretty much invalidates their criticism, at least it does for me.
610 | J.S. Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:49:56am |
re: #607 Sharmuta
Dyson is a physicist and he describes himself as a heretic (there's lots of literature about "honest heretics"...)
611 | wrenchwench Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:50:08am |
re: #607 Sharmuta
So Dyson admits he knows nothing about the actual science involved, but he's complaining anyways? That's not a very scientific approach, imo.
No, he doesn't say he knows nothing of the science:
Dyson: I think the difference between me and most of the experts is that I think I have a much wider view of the whole subject. I was involved in climate studies seriously about 30 years ago. That’s how I got interested. There was an outfit called the Institute for Energy Analysis at Oak Ridge. I visited Oak Ridge many times, and worked with those people, and I thought they were excellent. And the beauty of it was that it was multi-disciplinary. There were experts not just on hydrodynamics of the atmosphere, which of course is important, but also experts on vegetation, on soil, on trees, and so it was sort of half biological and half physics. And I felt that was a very good balance.[...]
You might have to RTWT...
612 | Dark_Falcon Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:50:18am |
613 | subsailor68 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:50:31am |
re: #606 Thanos
I can and have accessed the data from my house. I don't see what the beef is.
Hi Thanos! Oops! Guess that pretty much blows the old "data's been destroyed" and/or "it's not accessible" stuff! Heh.
614 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:50:47am |
re: #558 Charles
My "History of Palestine" page got linked by some assholes at Whatreallyhappened.com
Since it's a link and not a hotlinked graphic, I can't p3wn them, but at least they might learn something while they're at my site.
615 | Ben Hur Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:53:07am |
re: #614 Alouette
Will you retract your statement about Bamba?
616 | Vicious Babushka Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:55:13am |
re: #615 Ben Hur
Will you retract your statement about Bamba?
I will repeat my statement about Bamba: their "peanut butter snack" is gross.
617 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:55:44am |
Here's the Limbaugh sound bite from today that I referenced above
It's already up at Media matters.
618 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:56:52am |
re: #611 wrenchwench
I see he has a lot of the standard talking points down, like Greenland.
619 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:57:25am |
re: #617 Thanos
Here's the Limbaugh sound bite from today that I referenced above
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
It's already up at Media matters.
He also compared environmentalists and climate scientists to terrorists today.
620 | Ben Hur Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:09am |
re: #616 Alouette
I will repeat my statement about Bamba: their "peanut butter snack" is gross.
I find this deeply disturbing.
621 | wrenchwench Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:28am |
re: #617 Thanos
Here's the Limbaugh sound bite from today that I referenced above
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
It's already up at Media matters.
That's about as close to popping a cork as he gets. Whoa.
622 | subsailor68 Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:44am |
Hmm...my italics, bold, quote, and links buttons are gone - and I get kicked back to the top of the page when I post. I think it may be the size of this thread? Guess I'll try the new thread and see.
623 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:49am |
re: #619 Charles
Same show he slammed pardoning the Suspected cop killer in WA, but never mentioned Huckabee's name that I heard.
624 | MandyManners Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:00:28am |
625 | wrenchwench Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:01:07am |
re: #618 Sharmuta
I see he has a lot of the standard talking points down, like Greenland.
He could be a source of talking points. He has a pretty remarkable reputation.
626 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:02:28am |
re: #625 wrenchwench
I recall that article. But now that I've been reading more scientific sources, I find his criticism wanting.
627 | Cato the Elder Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:04:52am |
re: #625 wrenchwench
He could be a source of talking points. He has a pretty remarkable reputation.
Indeed. What Charles said.
628 | Achilles Tang Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:05am |
re: #571 winemaker
What is so important about the original data?
1. Axiomatic in science research, that the underlying "raw data" be made available for others to be able to access it and replicate your results.
2. The East Anglia statement, in plainspeak, says, "We dumped some raw data, but we kept the second generation data that was remained after we tweaked it."
1: Raw data is only as good as the data is good. "Others" are not automatically in a position to judge that after the circumstances of the data gathering are lost, such as a corrected bad calibration of a measuring device.
2: The raw data was tweaked to correct for known bad readings. Anyone else looking at the original raw data would be unable to know how to interpret it without also having the original hardware and settings that it had; or, in the case of deniers, they would pretend that it was good data if it supported their position.
In any case, none of AGW arguments rest on any one dataset in any one location.
629 | Sharmuta Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:24am |
re: #625 wrenchwench
He could be a source of talking points. He has a pretty remarkable reputation.
From your earlier link:
And, secondly, I am not an expert, and that’s not going to change. I am not going to make myself an expert. What I do think I have is a better judgment, maybe because I have lived a bit longer, and maybe because I’ve done other things.
This is a logical fallacy- he's arguing from authority. He has no counter data, nothing. Just his own opinion that his judgement is superior. Frankly, I had more respect for him before I read this interview.
630 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:47am |
re: #596 Charles
If the underlying raw data is available from a credible source with full provenance intact, then there should be no issue. No one can really argue that.
BUT, that certainly has not been established yet.
631 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:10:50am |
re: #630 winemaker
If the underlying raw data is available from a credible source with full provenance intact, then there should be no issue. No one can really argue that.
BUT, that certainly has not been established yet.
Yes, it has been established. The NOAA has all of the raw data used by the CRU. That's a fact.
632 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:11:14am |
re: #630 winemaker
We just established it upthread. If you want to refute CRU the data is there, links are upthread, go do it.
633 | idioma Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:13:34am |
re: #631 Charles
So, according to Limbaugh Stephen Hawking is a terrorist? What planet does this guy live on?
634 | idioma Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:03am |
So according to Limbaugh, Stephen Hawking is a terrorist? What planet does this guy live on?
PIMF
635 | freetoken Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:33am |
re: #631 Charles
Just to clarify, NOAA keeps weather data such as temperatures.
There are other types of data which NOAA does not keep. For example, some of the dendrochronology data that Briffa et. al. uses, which comes from a variety of sources.
636 | CommonCents Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:16:37am |
re: #599 Thanos
Here's a couple of Googles to get you going if you want to create that competing graph and study:
[Link: www.google.com...]
[Link: www.google.com...]
Of course you will find these searches salted with some denialist sites, please head to the official sites if it's raw, not cherry picked data that you are looking for.
I'll freely admit that I've done very little research into this topic. I appreciate the links to the "raw data" that you have provided. My question is this, isn't the debate not about whether the planet is warming, but rather what is the cause? Where's the raw data that proves man is the cause of global warming?
637 | freetoken Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:19:51am |
re: #636 CommonCents
My question is this, isn't the debate not about whether the planet is warming, but rather what is the cause? Where's the raw data that proves man is the cause of global warming?
Believe it or not, in certain circles there is full on denial of any change.
Your last question, on attribution, is derived from a variety of means. Concisely: all the possible sources and sinks of energy are measured, then all the mechanisms which influence the flow of energy from source to sink. Of those mechanisms, human involvement turns out to be the largest factors: changing the atmosphere, and changing the surface.
638 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:25:47am |
re: #577 Thanos
In theory, in any peer-review, the reviewers can go and replicate the data collection from the initial study.
The entire axiom of retaining the raw data, is so that the reviewers DON'T have to do that.
I understand that lots of folks here think that the deniers are a bunch of loons, fine. But you are talking yourselves into an anti-science box in doing so.
You may be "sure" that some guy is guilty. Nonetheless, the prosecutor still goes through the motions and proves up the case; you don't just take the guy out back and shoot him because you were "sure" --that is, not if you are purporting to be running a jury trial. And you certainly don't hide defense witnesses from the accused (so-called 3500 material) on the justification that you know the guy is guilty, and you want to avoidhis lawyer having something to harangue about in front of a jury of 8th grade minds.
Same with science. Don't get mad if the rules of science are really annoying to you right now, because it is a short journey to becoming one who begins to attack scientific method because it is inefficient or "gives the other side something to complain about."
Remember your outrage over "Fake but true." And how moonbatty the true believers sounded to an average person who hasn't spent 1000 hours on this.
This stinks and these scientists have done an incredible disservice to the cause you believe in, just like a prosecutor who would send an email saying, "we don't have to worry about that witness, because the defendant will never find out that the witness exists.."
639 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:21am |
re: #638 winemaker
In theory, in any peer-review, the reviewers can go and replicate the data collection from the initial study.
The entire axiom of retaining the raw data, is so that the reviewers DON'T have to do that.
I
The raw data is available at the stations. Anyone wanting to replicate can do so.
640 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:33:19am |
re: #638 winemaker
The raw data WAS retained, by the NOAA. The CRU deleted less than 5% of their raw data, simply because they did not have a way to store it in the 1980s.
I really don't understand why this seems so difficult to grasp.
No data was destroyed. None. The raw data still exists and there is nothing to stop anyone from getting it and doing their own correlations.
641 | Achilles Tang Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:00am |
re: #639 Obdicut
The raw data is available at the stations. Anyone wanting to replicate can do so.
What, remeasure last years temperatures today?
642 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:39:49am |
re: #638 winemaker
I don't deny that CRU was stupid and wrong to dump the data, I think they ought to put their stuff online. I'm arguing that it's a complete lie however to state that they've "destroyed the data". It's public data, it's out there, they don't have their compilation of that data anymore, and honestly shouldn't need it.
The next iteration of the web will put all major public DB's online ala GAP Minder, and we will see that over the next ten years. I'll like it better when the average Joe can plot these temps easily on his own.
643 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:41:27am |
re: #641 Naso Tang
Anyone wanting to replicate what CRU did with the data can do so.
Sorry, that's what I meant, not that they can replicate the original findings.
re: #642 Thanos
I don't deny that CRU was stupid and wrong to dump the data, I think they ought to put their stuff online.
It was the 80s.
644 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:53:54am |
re: #643 Obdicut
I agree, but I'm talking about their current study and DB when I say "ought to put it online".
645 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:00:44pm |
re: #639 Obdicut
We're talking past each other. N
ASA crashed a rocket into the moon a few months ago, to run experiments to look for water. NASA's raw data is just that. Getting the raw date from NASA is just that -- glad they footed the bill.
Telling a Frenchman that he can build his own damned rocket and crash it into the Moon, if he wants to replicate the data, isnt quite the "access to raw data" that I am referring to.
Similarly, if the Anglia scientists have built databases on NOAA data and run all kinds of simulations using their NOAA database, and the Anglians didn't retain the NOAA raw data nor their raw databases (and/nor, their simulation code?), telling someone that they can go fetch it all from the NOAA themselves (albeit not as egregious as the moon probe example with the frogonaut) will not pass muster with any science panel that isn't infused with the politics as this one is.
646 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:07:29pm |
re: #645 winemaker
If someone else wrote a paper on the rocket, though, they can just use NASA's raw data. And then they can throw that data away, because anyone criticizing their paper can get it from NASA. That would be the proper analogy.
647 | Claire Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:14:09pm |
Apparently some of the data the CRU has yet to cough up is the list of stations they both used or discarded in making the graphs. The raw data can't be interpreted without that if somebody is trying to do a reconstruction of their work. Doesn't mean the raw data is useless on it's own, it isn't. Doesn't mean they are hiding any nefarious methodology. Does mean 95% upfront is not 100% upfront, though, and they need to be.
Speaking of which, I just looked at all the GISS stations in my state. An awful lot of them are less than 30' from a structure, a bunch have the white paint peeling off the Stevenson boxes so they are now brown exposed wood (which makes the interior of the box hotter.) I think I also may be seeing more of a temp rise from 1980 to present in the stations that are in the middle of towns than the stations that are in the middle of fields. Just from this cursory look, there may be 25% of the stations in the state that adhere to good data guidelines for placement and some of those show warmer temps in the 1940's than today which I don't ever see on the official graphs, not even in the confidence intervals. So has all this data been thrown out of the averages? All have data from the early 1900's to now, most do reflect the general trend of warming from 1900-1920 to 1940's then cooling to 1960-1980 then warming again to present, though not all. The most urban ones show a straight run upwards thru the century. The most isolated ones show the biggest variation in temp up and down over the years. One has a metal boat parked right next to it which looks recent because the weeds haven't grown around it yet, and the temp for 2009 is like 5 degrees hotter than the rest of the century. I hope they throw that data point out.
If this is a reflection of the quality of ground based sensors across the rest of the country, then we really, really need a more rigorous program to gather this data. Unless of course we don't need it and satellite data is sufficient from this point forward, I really don't know.
Just a note: Looking at the source data for myself does not make me a denier, just curious, OKAY? I'm trying to judge on my own the credibility of some of the counter-arguments (some are obviously stupid, some are not) and thus educate myself.
648 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:14:24pm |
re: #642 Thanos
In light of the emails wherein the Anglians discuss - openly - deleting emails and the possible ways to avoid FOI requests, I think you are underweighting the possibility that the data was not saved, deliberately to slow or frustrate researchers, amateurs, laymen, deniers and anyone else, from easy access to the data.
I have no idea, I'm pointing out that you are way too confident given the known facts at this early point.
Look, the average guy (me) senses that the voters are going to toss out a lot of newly-elected Democrats in the House, and that as a POLITICAL matter (as opposed to a science matter), the pro-copenhagen activists think this treaty must be passed immediately or that there will not be an political opportunity to do so, in the medium-term future. Fine, that is a political thing; I'm an average guy and I can smell when politics is driving what is supposed to be a science debate.
The irony of the anti-scientific-method, pro-treaty-now arguments being advanced on this otherwise excellent pro-science, anti-foofah blog, is not lost on me. I hope it is just the politics of the moment, and not some sign that modern science has irreparably jumped into intellectual corruption that seems to have infested so much of the rest of the world.
Winemaker out.
649 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:18:04pm |
re: #647 Claire
Please go here to read scientific refutations of your talking points.
651 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:25:47pm |
re: #650 Claire
I don't have any fucking talking points-
Whether or not you know it, your post was-- as you can see if you follow the link-- a repetition of the common talking points about AGW. The station-placement thing is a classic canard.
On the off chance that you're completely innocently repeating those points, just read the link I gave you. Specifically, the temperature record point will help you overcome distrust in the temperature record.
652 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:27:52pm |
re: #648 winemaker
The 5% of the raw data that the CRU discarded happened 30 years ago. Are you seriously suggesting that the scientists tried to hide their data -- even though it was still available from the NOAA -- because they were able to see into the future and predict that there would be a hardcore denial industry in 2009?
653 | Achilles Tang Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:30:14pm |
654 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:30:38pm |
re: #648 winemaker
The irony of the anti-scientific-method, pro-treaty-now arguments being advanced on this otherwise excellent pro-science, anti-foofah blog, is not lost on me. I hope it is just the politics of the moment, and not some sign that modern science has irreparably jumped into intellectual corruption that seems to have infested so much of the rest of the world.
Winemaker out.
And I think it's really sad to see someone who previously valued fact-checking and accuracy repeating long-debunked talking points ad nauseam, and insisting that data was hidden or destroyed despite having the reality pointed out over and over to you.
655 | Randall Gross Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:37:16pm |
re: #648 winemaker
Now you are just being an obtuse propagandist.
656 | Claire Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:41:01pm |
re: #651 Obdicut
It's not a canard if I can see for myself photos of the actual stations in each town right next to a house! One of the stations is in somebody's backyard is covered in vines and is being used a a bird-feeder. My point is that the scientists have been lamenting that there are not enough data-gathering points. I believe the comment about not being able to predict the recent cooling being a "travesty" by one of the CRU guys was because we need more monitoring points to be able to make better models. We have all these stations, yet it looks to me (in my state at least, maybe unique to the northern hemisphere, I don't know) that most are less than ideal, so the data from my state is not as robust as it could be and lots of time and effort is being wasted on badly placed stations.
I have no doubt the data crunchers are smart enough to throw out the bad stations, the only thing that bug me is I'm seeing 1940's data as hot as 2008 data, and I'm wondering why that is. Big fucking deal.
So my talking points are:
The stations mostly show warming, though not exactly hockey-stick like.
We need more and better stations.
Ooohhh, sounds just like DENIAL!!! I'm a tool!
657 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:46:19pm |
re: #656 Claire
It's not a canard if I can see for myself photos of the actual stations in each town right next to a house! ...
So my talking points are:
The stations mostly show warming, though not exactly hockey-stick like.
We need more and better stations.Ooohhh, sounds just like DENIAL!!! I'm a tool!
It is a canard, despite your anecdotal evidence.
Your interpretation of the data is incorrect. We have mounds of data, from land and ground based stations, from sattelites, and from other sources.
But again: Follow the link I gave you, and you'll find well-sourced, well-explained evidence that the temperature record, as it exists, is more than reliable enough.
658 | Claire Mon, Nov 30, 2009 12:53:43pm |
re: #657 Obdicut
I never said we didn't- I never said it wasn't.
659 | Claire Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:41:59pm |
re: #649 Obdicut
Please go here to read scientific refutations of your talking points.
I just read it- My data interpretation (of the raw) is not wrong. They correct for exactly what I'm seeing in my stations. Majority of graphs (like I mentioned) show warming from 1960-1980 on at about the same slope. It's the absolute temp numbers that differ during that time. I'm sure they have a handle on it, but I mentioned that before, didn't I?
I really wish you all could read stuff without the US vs. THEM bias filters on. It wastes everone's time and makes me crabby.
660 | winemaker Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:45:41pm |
re: #654 Charles
Oh come on. I don't have 1000 hours to become a global warming expert.
I did, however, sit through way too many college classes where guys with "professor" name tags told me the way the world worked, based upon obviously deficient facts, and almost uniformily preached cold war disarmanent, etc. Only 20 years laters did I learn that they were Leftists first, teachers second. It was propaganda.
Same thing in graduate school; the Leftists teachers were a bit more brazen, they called themselves "CLS". Pure propaganda.
A multi billion dollar worldwide organization with immunity, advised a couple of years ago that certain facts were a "slam dunk." The CIA was wrong, there were no WMD's, and politics may have been a factor in their bad science.
So I guess I wear the "skeptic" badge with honor. Certainly not a global warming denier -- the globe is warming!
Winemaker the proud skeptic
661 | Obdicut Mon, Nov 30, 2009 1:50:56pm |
re: #659 Claire
I have no clue what you're even saying. Who is "they"?
662 | Charles Johnson Mon, Nov 30, 2009 2:07:34pm |
re: #660 winemaker
Oh come on. I don't have 1000 hours to become a global warming expert.
But somehow you seem to find the time to read the ravings of kooks like Christopher Monckton and other climate change deniers, and repeat their talking points.
Have you even made an effort to educate yourself on the subject? It looks like all of your information comes from right wing denial sites.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Here's a site where you can learn about just how much dishonest and misleading disinformation you've been fed:
[Link: www.skepticalscience.com...]