‘Lucy’ Goes Digital

Science • Views: 2,093

The Discovery Institute has created a fascinating 3D high-resolution CT scan of the famous “Lucy” fossil (Australopithecus afarensis): Lucy 2.0: Famous Fossil Hominid Goes Digital.

Oops, sorry … did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant the University of Texas. Everyone knows the Discovery Institute isn’t interested in actually doing scientific research.

Lucy, the world’s most famous fossil human ancestor, has gone digital in 3-D. A new high-resolution CT scan of the 3.2 million-year-old skeleton will provide scientists around the globe with information that may help settle debates about human evolution.

The virtual Lucy could prove invaluable to scientists by giving them their first glimpse inside her fossilized bones. The scans reveal microscopic details of the internal structure of Lucy’s bones and teeth that give clues to how she moved and ate.

“These scans will ensure that future generations are familiar with Lucy,” said Jara Mariam, director general of Ethiopia’s Authority for Research and Conservation of Cultural Heritage, “and will know of Ethiopia’s central contribution to the study of human evolution. A virtual Lucy will be able to visit every classroom on the planet.”

Here’s a 3D view of the fossil’s jawbone:

Youtube Video

UPDATE at 2/8/09 11:55:41 am:

If you’re in Seattle, don’t miss the Lucy exhibit at the Pacific Science Center: Lucy’s Legacy. (The Discovery Institute is in Seattle; think they’ll organize a field trip for their “fellows?”)

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331 comments
1 Racer X  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:48:41am

Ricky is jealous.

2 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:50:00am
These scans will ensure that future generations are familiar with Lucy

Unless the ignoramuses running this country manage to ruin science education.

3 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:50:26am

Crap!
I thought it was Lucille Ball!

4 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:51:25am

Was I dreaming, or did I actually see teeth and roots still visible in the fossil?

5 smokefire  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:52:17am

………..LUCY…………..I’M HOME.

6 Syrah  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:52:46am

Seattle area Lizards still have some time to go see the Lucy Exhibit at the Pacific Science Center.

7 notutopia  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:52:51am

UT Rocks! Hook up Horns!
Lucy Rocks in 3D!

8 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:53:19am

If only that would (METAPHORICALLY!) happen to Obama’s mouth.

9 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:54:52am

re: #4 Dianna

Was I dreaming, or did I actually see teeth and roots still visible in the fossil?

You weren’t dreaming.

10 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:55:30am

THe video’s really cool. Amazing what technology can do these days. Let’s home America is able to stay at the front and repel the anti-science movement.

11 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:55:49am

How Congress Trumps Darwin

12 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:56:04am

re: #3 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Crap!
I thought it was Lucille Ball!

Lucy, you for some splanning to do…

13 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:56:51am

re: #12 Dustyvet

Lucy, you for some splanning to do…

Lucy you got some splanning to do…

14 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:57:23am

re: #5 smokefire

………..LUCY…………..I’M HOME.

15 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:57:39am

re: #13 Dustyvet

Lucy you got some splanning to do…

Looks like you had some too!
(-:

16 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:57:55am

re: #11 RightKlik

How Congress Trumps Darwin

Well I’ll be damned- a conservative pundit who accepts evolution. Thank God for George Will- he’s officially off my shit list.

17 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:58:44am

re: #15 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Looks like you had some too!
(-:

Blam the Nyquil…:)

18 smokefire  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:58:44am

……OK, enough of this folderoll.
I have some serious Pizza making to get done, then a beer, and watch the tube.

Really the better half wants to use the puter, and is giving me the Michelle Stare, so I must slide on out of here.

Be Safe Lizards.

19 LGoPs  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 11:59:14am

Heck, I thought it was Lucy from the Peanuts cartoon…..

20 ThinkRight  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:00:05pm

Tough Times at Obama Inc.

I know it’s been a tough week, little Obamaites. You’ve been feeling … unstimulated.But think of it this way — the drama in the Senate drove Tom Daschle completely out of the news. In a week or so, nobody will even remember that he was nominated for anything.


Tough Times at Obama Inc. …

21 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:00:40pm

re: #11 RightKlik

How Congress Trumps Darwin

Great link, thanks!
& Thanks to George Will for writing it. Isn’t he conservative?
I like this Darwin quote:

“Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.”
22 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:01:07pm

re: #17 Dustyvet

Blam the Nyquil…:)


heh … so I see
Get better soon!

23 snowcrash  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:01:13pm

Nevergiveup are you around? Do you see anything different or notable about Lucy’s teeth in relation to ours?

24 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:01:22pm

re: #19 LGoPs

Heck, I thought it was Lucy from the Peanuts cartoon…..

Image: lucy%20doctor%20stand.jpg

25 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:01:45pm

re: #22 pre-Boomer Marine brat

heh … so I see
Get better soon!

Thank you…:)

26 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:01:54pm

I have a golden retriever named lucy.

27 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:03:04pm

re: #23 snowcrash

Nevergiveup are you around? Do you see anything different or notable about Lucy’s teeth in relation to ours?

She used Crest?

28 Spiny Norman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:03:47pm

re: #11 RightKlik

How Congress Trumps Darwin

George Will’s conclusion:

Speaking of government, in 1973 Congress passed the Endangered Species Act. It said that when identifying an “endangered” or “threatened” species, the government should assess not only disease, predation and threats to its habitat but also “other natural … factors affecting its continued existence.” Natural factors?

Four years later, the act held up construction of a Tennessee dam deemed menacing to the snail-darter minnow. Ed Yoder, a learned and sometimes whimsical columnist, noted that it was under Tennessee’s “monkey law” that John Scopes was tried in 1925 for teaching biology in a way considered incompatible with “Genesis.” While not equating Tennessee’s law with “a measure so enlightened” as the 1973 act, Yoder noted:

“Both measures involve legislative interposition in the realm of biological change; and which will have involved the greater hubris is yet to be seen. Tennessee’s ambitions were comparatively modest. It sought only to conceal the disturbing evidence of natural selection from impressionable school children. The Congress of the United States, one is intrigued to learn, intends to stop the nasty business in its tracks.”

Having accomplished that, it should be child’s play for Congress to make the climate behave. Pick your own meaning of “child’s play.”

Heh.™

29 carefulnow  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:04:06pm

[Link: www.latimes.com…]

The evolution of Darwin’s theory

200 years after his birth, scientists are analyzing DNA in an effort to keep pace with increasingly rapid changes among humans and solve the mysteries behind blue eyes and our other differences.

30 ThinkRight  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:06:13pm

Video appears to show hostage killing in Pakistan

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan (AP) - A graphic video delivered to The Associated Press on Sunday appeared to show the execution of a Polish engineer by Pakistani militants who had held him captive for more than four months.
Pakistan has seen a rash of kidnappings and attacks on foreigners in recent months, mostly blamed on al-Qaida and Taliban militants trying to destabilize the secular government and punish it for supporting the U.S.-led war in neighboring Afghanistan.
An American U.N. worker was abducted last week in the border town of Quetta in southwestern Pakistan. Police said Sunday they were investigating a purported separatist group’s claim of responsibility.


Video appears to show hostage killing in Pakistan …

31 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:06:48pm

re: #3 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Crap!
I thought it was Lucille Ball!

re: #19 LGoPs

Heck, I thought it was Lucy from the Peanuts cartoon…..

OK, let’s get them all over with now. I thought it was Lucy …

… in the Sky with Diamonds
… Lawless
… the Catholic saint
… Liu
… Lane, Lois’ younger sister

32 Spiny Norman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:07:14pm

re: #30 ThinkRight

The Taliban must be exterminated, without mercy.

33 Jetpilot1101  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:07:26pm

This is really cool. I hope the exhibit shows up in Boston so I can take the family to see it.

34 ThinkRight  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:08:44pm

re: #32 Spiny Norman

The Taliban must be exterminated, without mercy.


With the leadership we have now I won’t be holding my breath

35 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:09:09pm

re: #3 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Crap! I thought it was Lucille Ball!

And what is she doing naked in a video. Lucy, you got a lot of ‘splaing to do.

36 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:09:34pm
An American majority resists such an annoying notion, endorsing the proposition that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years.” Still, evolution is a fact and its mechanism is natural selection: Creatures with variations especially suited to their environmental situation have more descendants than do less well-adapted creatures.

Dear Mr. Will,

Prepare for hate mail.

Sincerely, Sharmuta

37 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:09:44pm

re: #11 RightKlik

How Congress Trumps Darwin

Southerners, a fractious tribe, would not have played nicely together in the Confederacy for very long.

Why, dem’s fightin’ words! Suh, Ah will see you at dawn.

Have a great day, Lizards! bbl

38 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:09:53pm

Can’t get the video. But, I agree with Spiny.

39 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:09:56pm

re: #31 gmsc

Thanks.
I am now lucy’d

/or did the coffee finally take hold?

40 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:10:13pm

Evolution and belief in God are not necessarily incompatible. I guess they are if you beleive the earth is 6000 years old and all else is an elaborate trick by Stan. I think God is more sophisticated than creationists allow.

41 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:10:43pm
The Discovery Institute is in Seattle; think they’ll organize a field trip for their “fellows?”)


Here’s the Disco Institute’s report from the scene…..
My Pilgrimage to Lucy’s Holy Relics Fails to Inspire Faith in Darwinism

No doubt many an eager Darwinist has attended the Lucy exhibit hoping to find confirmation of their views. Instead, what they found was a small coffin-like case holding scraps ambiguous bones.

Whether you’re a true believer in Lucy’s status as a transitional form, or an apostate who suspects that her story and reconstruction could be largely myth, the Lucy exhibit at the Pacific Science Center is worth visiting (after all, even atheists visit holy relics due to their literary and cultural significance). So go see the exhibit, keep an open mind, and come to your own conclusions. Just be forewarned that regardless of what you believe, you’re likely to walk away from Lucy feeling underwhelmed at the incompleteness of the fossil and the lack of clarity in the case for human evolution.

42 jaunte  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:11:45pm

re: #36 Sharmuta

It’s very odd to me that in 2009 accepting the truth of evolutionary theory has become a controversial position for a conservative pundit.

43 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:12:28pm

The Disco Institute also has part three of their LGF series up this morning.

44 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:12:29pm

re: #21 FrogMarch
Yes, GW is a hard-core conservative..
I thought this was a particularly interesting part of the article: “As a practical matter, we cannot expel government from our understanding of society as Darwin expelled God from the understanding of nature. But Darwinism opens the mind to the fecundity of undirected, spontaneous, organic social arrangements — to Edmund Burke and Friedrich Hayek.”

45 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:13:45pm

re: #44 RightKlik


And, he’s much, much smarter than Ann Coulter.

bbl

46 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:14:51pm

There is a cool interactive documentary that can be viewed online (slides, narration) here: Becoming Human.

Did you know Lucy got her name from Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds?

47 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:14:56pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

I saw, see my comment [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…] This guy Klinghoffer really is quite dim.

48 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:15:07pm

re: #39 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks.
I am now lucy’d

/or did the coffee finally take hold?

Really? Are you Lucy …

… Pinder?
… the elephant-shaped building in New Jersey?
… the dog on Blue Peter?
… the Daughter of the Devil?
… Barker from Sweeney Todd?
… the World War II Spy Ring?

;)

49 SteveC  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:16:53pm
Oops, sorry … did I say “Discovery Institute?” I meant the University of Texas. Everyone knows the Discovery Institute isn’t interested in actually doing scientific research.

You had me going! I thought maybe DigiLucy looked the public in the eye and said “I didn’t evolve, jerk!” You gotta keep your eyes open around here, that’s for sure!

50 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:17:21pm

Brace yourself for claims of fakery, manipulation (a la fauxtography) and all matter of tinfoil tomfoolery (would that be “tinfoolery”? if so, I got dibs on the term) from DI et al.

51 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:17:52pm

re: #45 MandyManners

…much smarter than any political pundit that I know of.

52 rexatosis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:17:57pm

The 3D is cool, however I am a bit concerned with the Ethiopian Government’s decision to tour “Lucy” herself (I am not alone in this concern within the academic community). Given the fragility of the fossils, their importance to the scientific understanding of primate evolution, and their priceless irreplacibility it is rather dicey to be shipping “Lucy” all over the planet, accidents happen. There is a reason museums are most reluctant to allow their most prized pieces tour. With art there is a whole industry of art repair and restoration, with “Lucy” there is nothing that could be done without further damaging the specimen. While the tour will undoubtable bring in much needed hard currency to the Ethiopian government it is not without serious risk.

53 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:18:03pm

re: #48 gmsc

Really? Are you Lucy …

… Pinder?

;)

Mmmm. Pinder.

54 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:18:17pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

No doubt many an eager Darwinist has attended the Lucy exhibit hoping to find confirmation of their views. Instead, what they found was a small coffin-like case holding scraps ambiguous bones.

It’s been ages since I saw Elmer Gantry, and I don’t remember a lot about it. That said, I can easily visualize Burt Lancaster (*salute* to the actor) intoning something like that.

55 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:18:29pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

The disco Institute claims Darwin is responsible for racism and colonialism now.

So it goes, too, in the rest of the Western world. It’s no wonder that the most highly secularized nations—those in Western Europe—also have the hardest time explaining why they have a right to defend their own historically Christian cultures from the fundamentalist Muslim culture that—and here we return to LGF—blogger Charles Johnson regards with understandable anxiety and dismay.

Yet if Johnson and like-minded conservatives had their way on the evolution issue, basically banishing challenges to Darwinism from public life, they might well succeed only in hastening the very fate—the West’s increasing capitulation to terror—that they otherwise so earnestly and effectively warn us against.

Darwinism leads to dhimitude!

56 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:20:01pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

The Disco Institute also has part three of their LGF series up this morning.

And it’s just as stupid and empty as parts 1 and 2. Number of hits from their site so far today: 15.

It’s not worth responding to - it will only increase their traffic.

57 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:20:42pm

re: #48 gmsc

Really? Are you Lucy …

… Pinder?
… the elephant-shaped building in New Jersey?
… the dog on Blue Peter?
… the Daughter of the Devil?
… Barker from Sweeney Todd?
… the World War II Spy Ring?

;)

*laying on the floor, head spinning*
gaaack!

58 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:20:43pm

re: #4 Dianna

Was I dreaming, or did I actually see teeth and roots still visible in the fossil?

That is a modern MRI scan. You can see pretty much everything.

59 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:21:41pm

re: #44 RightKlik

Lots of gems in there. Thanks again.

After Copernicus dislodged humanity from the center of the universe, Marx asserted that false consciousness — we do not really “make up our minds” — blinds us to the fact that we are in the grip of an implacable dialectic of impersonal forces. Darwin placed humanity in a continuum of all protoplasm. Then Freud declared that the individual’s “self” or personhood is actually a sort of unruly committee. All this dented humanity’s self-esteem.

60 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:22:26pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

The disco Institute claims Darwin is responsible for racism and colonialism now.

Darwinism leads to dhimitude!

That’s right — reading LGF will lead to the collapse of Western civilization.

I must be drawing some blood with these posts.

61 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:22:48pm

Well, I am a man of leisure today. I was supposed to have a gig, but the venue burnt down last night, 5 alarm fire. Getting paid anyway, supposedly.

62 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:22:49pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Wow! I haven’t read any of their pieces about LGF, but this grabbed my attention:

It’s no wonder that the most highly secularized nations—those in Western Europe—also have the hardest time explaining why they have a right to defend their own historically Christian cultures from the fundamentalist Muslim culture that—and here we return to LGF—blogger Charles Johnson regards with understandable anxiety and dismay.

I don’t need to invoke religion to defend the ideals of the Enlightenment.

63 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:23:01pm

re: #52 rexatosis

The 3D is cool, however I am a bit concerned with the Ethiopian Government’s decision to tour “Lucy” herself (I am not alone in this concern within the academic community). Given the fragility of the fossils, their importance to the scientific understanding of primate evolution, and their priceless irreplacibility it is rather dicey to be shipping “Lucy” all over the planet, accidents happen. There is a reason museums are most reluctant to allow their most prized pieces tour. With art there is a whole industry of art repair and restoration, with “Lucy” there is nothing that could be done without further damaging the specimen. While the tour will undoubtable bring in much needed hard currency to the Ethiopian government it is not without serious risk.

It’s a fossil, it’s ROCK. They are not that fragile. And fossil preservation is a science, and I’m very sure that these fossils will be properly handled.

And touring a piece will help generate revenues for further research.

I see no problems with this. The more these items are given general access to the public, the harder it is for people to ly about them.

That’s been the problem with science in the past, they have sat on this stuff as if it belonged only to the high priests of science and we little people wouldn’t understand it.

Nope, I’m all for this.

64 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:23:02pm

re: #60 Charles


I must be drawing some blood with these posts.

Blood-sucker!

65 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:23:23pm

re: #54 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It’s been ages since I saw Elmer Gantry, and I don’t remember a lot about it. That said, I can easily visualize Burt Lancaster (*salute* to the actor) intoning something like that.

re: #54 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It’s been ages since I saw Elmer Gantry, and I don’t remember a lot about it. That said, I can easily visualize Burt Lancaster (*salute* to the actor) intoning something like that.

Great movie. I can see Burt Lancaster using his last line, spoken just before he hands over his Bible and quits the evangelism biz: “When I was a child, I understood as a child and spake as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things.”

66 ThinkRight  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:23:28pm

On Fox News now
Rerun Glenn Beck
A good Muslim

67 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:24:09pm

re: #60 Charles

It’s unfortunate that their rebuttals are so weak and silly. There’s really nothing much to respond to.

68 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:24:10pm

re: #39 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks.
I am now lucy’d

/or did the coffee finally take hold?

Please elucy’date

69 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:24:57pm

re: #62 Sharmuta

In fact- the Enlightenment was enough to upset the religious apple cart, and it’s the Enlightenment the ID shills would like to turn back.

70 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:25:23pm

PIMF, CT scan, not MRI.

71 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:25:31pm

A few days ago we were discussing Science..And I posted my favorite Scientist’s blog site…
Thanks to those lizards who dropped by for a visit and said hello..He only gets like 5 hits a month..usually from post grads looking to get extra credit.
So it was pretty cool for him to get some hits from here talking about math and science..not the fake shit..But real science…

72 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:25:44pm

re: #62 Sharmuta

Not to mention the Church of England and the Vatican aren’t helping against the Islamization of Europe.

73 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:26:11pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

It’s unfortunate that their rebuttals are so weak and silly. There’s really nothing much to respond to.

This part is a hoot:

Consider King Leopold II (1835-1909) of Belgium, responsible for the enslavement and murder of millions in Belgian Congo. The horror crystallized in the phrase from Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, “Exterminate all the brutes,” scrawled by the character Kurtz across a manuscript during his time as chief of an ivory-harvesting station far up the Congo River, is just a brief encapsulation of the ethics implied by Darwin’s theory, echoing Darwin’s own language. He was fond of the word “exterminate.”

He’s quoting a novel to support his idiotic contention that Darwin was a monster.

He’s supporting his argument with a quote from a fictional character.

74 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:26:21pm

re: #65 Catttt

Great movie. I can see Burt Lancaster using his last line, spoken just before he hands over his Bible and quits the evangelism biz: “When I was a child, I understood as a child and spake as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things.”

I meant to mention - I first saw this in a class in college. When Elmer Gantry says the above, virtually everyone in the class gasped - rather loudly. Talk about your sacred cows. I think most were amazed that the line made it into the flick, but of course, it had to be there, or the movie would have had no conclusion.

75 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:27:14pm

re: #71 HoosierHoops

A few days ago we were discussing Science..And I posted my favorite Scientist’s blog site…
Thanks to those lizards who dropped by for a visit and said hello..He only gets like 5 hits a month..usually from post grads looking to get extra credit.
So it was pretty cool for him to get some hits from here talking about math and science..not the fake shit..But real science…

I agree. And I went there. And he had some good pics of Adriana Lima, which helped.
:)

76 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:27:42pm

re: #68 debutaunt

Please elucy’date

Using DI figures, it’s no older than about 5,000 or so years, assuming:

1) It’s real; and

2) All known laws of physical geology and anthropology are stalking horses for an anti-western, anti-Christian consipracy.

77 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:27:57pm

re: #61 rawmuse

Well, I am a man of leisure today. I was supposed to have a gig, but the venue burnt down last night, 5 alarm fire. Getting paid anyway, supposedly.

Ouch. I hope no one was in it at the time.

78 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:28:03pm

re: #60 Charles

I hope so.

79 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:28:23pm

OT, I know, but serious news downunder as South Australia burns.

[Link: www.stuff.co.nz…]

Confirmed dead are 108. There could many more as burned out homes and cars are checked.

Tragic news.

80 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:28:23pm

re: #68 debutaunt

Please elucy’date

This is making me Desi.

81 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:28:53pm

re: #61 rawmuse

Well, I am a man of leisure today. I was supposed to have a gig, but the venue burnt down last night, 5 alarm fire. Getting paid anyway, supposedly.

I hope that wasn’t a critical review of the last time you played there?
:)

82 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:28:58pm

re: #80 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This is making me Desi.

Didn’t know you were Hindu. //

83 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:02pm

re: #77 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Ouch. I hope no one was in it at the time.

Happened after hours. Nothing but property damage.

84 SteveC  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:17pm

OT -

I’m going to DC this week and will be part of a group lobbying for a Congenital Heart Defect Registry on Tuesday the 10th. I’m planning to liveblog the lobbying effort, so if you might be interested in following our progress (or lack thereof) check my blog all during the day on Tuesday.

I’m a bit worried about the timing. We’ve had this planned for months, but Harry Reid says the big Senate vote could occur on Tuesday. Our efforts could be overshadowed by all the excitement/animosity created by the vote. I know that the Legislative Staffs function for just this purpose - so that the Legislator doesn’t get distracted by other events - but odds are, they’ll be caught up in the battle, also. :(

85 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:18pm

re: #81 Walter L. Newton

I hope that wasn’t a critical review of the last time you played there?
:)

One wonders.

86 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:19pm
87 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:20pm

re: #83 rawmuse

Happened after hours. Nothing but property damage.

Austin, 6th street?

88 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:36pm

re: #76 Guanxi88

Using DI figures, it’s no older than about 5,000 or so years, assuming:

1) It’s real; and

2) All known laws of physical geology and anthropology are stalking horses for an anti-western, anti-Christian consipracy.

What novel ideas.

89 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:29:57pm

re: #73 Charles

He was fond of the word “exterminate.”

As are the Darleks

90 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:30:01pm

re: #88 debutaunt

What novel ideas.

Yes, straight out of fiction.

91 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:30:05pm

re: #73 Charles

Dr. Frankenstein clearly demonstrated that science leads to big trouble.

92 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:30:28pm

re: #89 A Kiwi Infidel

As are the Darleks

Do not deviate! Seek, locate, exterminate!

93 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:30:28pm

re: #73 Charles

But if they didn’t work off intellectual dishonesty, there would be no intellect at all.

95 ThinkRight  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:31:57pm

M. Zuhdi Jasser

Dr. Jasser is the Chairman of the Board, founding member, and President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD). He is the son of Muslim-Syrian immigrants and is a native of Wisconsin. Dr. Jasser received his B.Sc. from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee in 1988 and graduated from the Medical College of Wisconsin on a U.S. Navy scholarship in 1992. He completed his specialty training in internal medicine at Bethesda Naval Hospital in 1996. His tours of duty included Medical Department Head aboard the U.S.S. El Paso (‘93-‘94) which deployed to Somalia (Operation Restore Hope), Chief Resident at Bethesda Naval Hospital (‘96-‘97), and Staff Internist for the Office of the Attending Physician to Congress in Washington, D.C (‘97-‘99).


A real moderate muslim

96 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:32:15pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

Dr. Frankenstein clearly demonstrated that science leads to big trouble.

Just look at the pain

97 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:32:30pm

re: #89 A Kiwi Infidel

As are the Darleks

Which ties it in to the world-wide Jewish conspiracy - Tom Baker, the only REAL Doctor, in my opinion, was a tribesman.

98 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:32:35pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout
LOL.

99 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:32:37pm

re: #82 Guanxi88

Didn’t know you were Hindu. //

He was born just off the coast of India, on the Isle of Lucy.

100 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:33:41pm

re: #85 rawmuse

One wonders.

When I was living in Northern NJ in the 60’s and early 70’s, the mob was buying up all kinds of small clubs that weren’t doing good business.

They were trying to position themselves for when gambling became legal in NJ. Of course, they were pushing for it, and hoping that it would be a state wide venture.

And if you were in the music business, you knew what was going on. Some of the clubs I played had 15 people in it on any given night, no real business, yet the “owners” never miss paying the band.

All during this time, these clubs would sometime have fires happen after closing. We all knew the mob was moving pieces around the chess board.

You knew better than to leave your music equipment in the place between weekends. You took it home.

101 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:34:05pm

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Of course, in the book “Elmer Gantry,” Gantry remains an unrepentant hypocrite to the end; caught out in an affair with a former girlfriend, he goes before his congregation and asks that they “reassure him with a Hallelujah” that they believe in his innocence and in the “fiendishness of his accusers.”

Good old Sinclair Lewis. It’s rather scary when you think he’s still relevant, but ignorance never sleeps.

I really preferred the movie’s ending. Reading his books is - um - kinda depressing. I remember reading Babbitt and thinking “man, this guy is a train wreck.”

102 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:34:06pm

re: #82 Guanxi88

Didn’t know you were Hindu. //

Don’t try to ram that into an I Love Lucy pun thread.

103 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:34:47pm

re: #102 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Don’t try to ram that into an I Love Lucy pun thread.

Hey, you were the one who said you were Desi; just asking.

Thank you, come again

104 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:35:17pm

re: #102 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Don’t try to ram that into an I Love Lucy pun thread.

My previous post was just my way of ‘splaining.

105 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:35:31pm

re: #89 A Kiwi Infidel

As are the Darleks

I always thought they looked like large salt shakers.

106 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:35:46pm

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

Of course, in the book “Elmer Gantry,” Gantry remains an unrepentant hypocrite to the end; caught out in an affair with a former girlfriend, he goes before his congregation and asks that they “reassure him with a Hallelujah” that they believe in his innocence and in the “fiendishness of his accusers.”

Thanks, didn’t know that.

107 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:35:47pm

re: #105 Catttt

I always thought they looked like large salt shakers.

They are, but with more evil.

108 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:36:04pm

re: #105 Catttt

I always thought they looked like large salt shakers.

Which is what makes them so great.

109 jaunte  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:36:50pm

I just read the Klinghoffer piece, and good grief, what a ramshackle, tacked together assemblage of gimcrack logical leaps.

110 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:37:05pm

re: #75 Walter L. Newton

I agree. And I went there. And he had some good pics of Adriana Lima, which helped.
:)

LOL
You know why I like Dr. C so much? He is a pure scientist and mathmatician.
But about a year ago he spent the day walking the Hills of Ireland with his mom discussing his turmoil over the concept of God.. In a honest manner. And he blogged about it..He just doesn’t know and laid it out for everyone on-line.
He has bigger balls than almost anyone I know..He laid it out and was honest about it…No Bullshit..Just pure science and logic..

111 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:37:13pm

re: #105 Catttt

I always thought they looked like large salt shakers.

With a toilet plunger poking out the front, a deadly toilet plunger. the “plunger of death”

112 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:37:14pm

re: #104 Guanxi88

My previous post was just my way of ‘splaining.

:D
Notice the gratuitous pun inserted into my initial rejoinder.

113 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:37:15pm

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

The best story I have is of a club that operated in Chicago in the late 1940’s. They had a band, a 12 piece one, playing 6 nights a week and getting paid regular cash. The place was never crowded, seldom more in the audience than in the band. One day the band shows up, the place was shuttered by the FBI.

The owners were printing the cash in the basement.

114 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:37:44pm

re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat

:D
Notice the gratuitous pun inserted into my initial rejoinder.

Oh, you mean Dass?

115 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:38:13pm

re: #111 A Kiwi Infidel

With a toilet plunger poking out the front, a deadly toilet plunger. the “plunger of death”

Which reminds me of a joke I won’t repeat here.

116 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:38:31pm

re: #113 rawmuse

The best story I have is of a club that operated in Chicago in the late 1940’s. They had a band, a 12 piece one, playing 6 nights a week and getting paid regular cash. The place was never crowded, seldom more in the audience than in the band. One day the band shows up, the place was shuttered by the FBI.

The owners were printing the cash in the basement.

Yep, nothing really changes.

117 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:39:12pm

BB after 8:30pm Mountain. Got to get ready for tonights performance. Play nice. And Charles, thanks for LGF.

118 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:39:21pm

OT - repost (A different result is expected this time around.)

“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work … After eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started … And an enormous debt to boot!”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, commenting on the failures of the New Deal after two terms of FDR

119 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:39:32pm

re: #99 gmsc

He was born just off the coast of India, on the Isle of Lucy.

My parents had originally intended to Ceylon past it.

120 Dustyvet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:39:35pm

re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat

:D
Notice the gratuitous pun inserted into my initial rejoinder.

Image: 12-05-07_1018.jpg

121 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:39:42pm

re: #73 Charles

He’s quoting a novel to support his idiotic contention that Darwin was a monster.

He’s supporting his argument with a quote from a fictional character.

On top of that the true genocide that the novel was based upon was furthered by Christian monarch, not scientists:

Under the terms of the General Act of the Berlin Conference, Leopold pledged to suppress the East African slave trade; promote humanitarian policies; guarantee free trade; and encourage missions, and other philanthropic and scientific enterprises. Contrary to these promises, in November 1888, Leopold issued three decrees. The first prohibited trade in arms. The second mandated the terms for the employment of indigenous workers, committing them to be indentured for terms of seven years to their employers. The third established the Force Publique (FP). The FP’s officer corps was comprised entirely of whites—Belgian regular soldiers and mercenaries from other countries. On arriving in the CFS, these officers recruited men from neighboring non-Congolese ethnic groups—many came from warrior tribes in the Upper Congo. The FP’s primary role was to enforce Leopold’s exploitive economic policies in the newly established CFS.

Both directly and by leasing concessions to private companies paying him 50 percent of their profits, Leopold would personally capitalize on the vast wealth extracted in rubber, ivory, and minerals during his twenty-three year reign of terror in the Belgian colony. Moreover, he would subsequently break the Berlin Conference free-trade agreement among the colonial powers in Africa and embezzle profits owed to the Belgian government for publicly invested funds used to maintain and develop the colony. Using his vast colonial wealth to construct grand palaces and monuments including the Royal Museum for Central Africa in Tervuren, ironically Leopold would never visit the colony and avoided personally witnessing the results of his inhumane treatment of the Congolese.

122 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:40:15pm

re: #112 pre-Boomer Marine brat

:D
Notice the gratuitous pun inserted into my initial rejoinder.

That sounds painful…………

123 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:40:16pm
124 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:40:41pm
125 twincitiesgirl  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:41:06pm

re: #79 A Kiwi Infidel

OT, I know, but serious news downunder as South Australia burns.

[Link: www.stuff.co.nz…]

Confirmed dead are 108. There could many more as burned out homes and cars are checked.

Tragic news.


I read about this late last night. It is indeed tragic, what a horrific way to die. Our hearts and prayers are with our Aussie friends.

126 rawmuse  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:41:07pm

re: #123 Iron Fist

So you are saying that this was a Democrat hangout?

Of course not. Everyone knows that Chicago is a Republican stronghold.

Oh, wait…

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:41:24pm

re: #73 Charles

He’s supporting his argument with a quote from a fictional character.

Not so surprising that a reality challenged individual would use fiction to support an argument.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I must go get drunk and have altruistic, non-reproductive sex with the gal next door, just to prove Darwin wrong.
////

128 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:41:26pm

re: #119 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My parents had originally intended to Ceylon past it.

I heard they went on to build a house on Whynchataka Peak, overlooking Veronica Lake.

129 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:41:39pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Here’s the Disco Institute’s report from the scene…..

My Pilgrimage to Lucy’s Holy Relics Fails to Inspire Faith in Darwinism

That’s by Casey Luskin. Even among that group of luddite sub-geniuses, Luskin is an especially dim bulb. Anyone else who had been caught in so many lies and evasions and distortions would probably slink away and stop posting idiocy on the intarwebs - but Luskin keeps plugging away.

130 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:42:38pm

re: #120 Dustyvet

[Link: bp2.blogger.com…]

Heh!
What is that? A coffee shop or a bar?

131 Archimedes  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:42:57pm

re: #46 Catttt

There is a cool interactive documentary that can be viewed online (slides, narration) here: Becoming Human.

Did you know Lucy got her name from Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds?

That’s what I’d always heard.

Beatle mania, baby.

132 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:43:06pm

re: #129 Charles

Faith in Darwinism - ahhahahahahahahhahaaaa

133 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:43:10pm

re: #119 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My parents had originally intended to Ceylon past it.

Didn’t they borrow that jewel-covered boat? I heard something about the Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyam.

134 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:43:19pm

re: #109 jaunte

Don’t forget the historical ignorance. The colonial era started around 1400 (1450?) Darwin didn’t publish his theory of evolution until about 1850. Colonialism was pretty much over by 1900 (1940?).

135 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:43:21pm

more:

By the final decade of the 19th century, J. B. Dunlop’s 1887 invention of rubber inflatable bicycle tubes and the growing popularity of the automobile had dramatically increased the global demand for rubber, exasperating Leopold’s greed. In 1891, Leopoldissued a decree giving himself total control over the rubber and ivory trade. The decree enforced a tax on Leopold’s Congo subjects requiring local chiefs to supply men to collect rubber. It essentially obliged natives to supply these products without payment. The genocide scholar Adam Jones comments that “the result was one of the most brutal and all-encompassing corveé institutions the world has known…Male rubber tappers and porters were mercilessly exploited and driven to death.”[1] Leopold’s agents held the wives and children of these men hostage until they returned with their rubber quota. Those who refused or failed to supply enough rubber had their villages burned down, children murdered, and hands cut off.

I don’t think he should have used that as an example.

136 katemaclaren  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:43:24pm

That picture looks like my feet feel today.
Apparently, there isn’t much interest in Lucy at the exhibit. So I hear. Few visitors. My cat’s name is Lucy and she doesn’t look like that, either.
o/t Lucy notwithstanding…
Just wondered if anyone feels like the government and main steam media is ignoring the terrible crisis both in Australia and in Kentucky—or in a little town around here, Coatsville, where someone seems to be trying to burn down the town?

I know I’m going to get chewed on for saying this, but damn I’m tired of talk about ID and evolution. Here, in Philadelphia, the first institution in the US to recognize Darwin’s work—celebrates that event today. Just got back. ho hummmmm. Interestingly, the talk got around to Darwin’s great granddaughter. I read a book called “Period Piece” that she wrote about growing up around the great man. I picked it up in a 5&10 in around 1961 (I know, I know) when I was a nipper for 50 cents. It was fascinating and funny. I didn’t know anything at all about Darwin until then—other than, of course, the name associated with evolution. It humanized him and kept him somewhere close in my thoughts when the topic comes up again—and again and again and again. Sigh.
(I’m now ready to duck shoes)

137 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:43:40pm

re: #130 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Heh!
What is that? A coffee shop or a bar?

That’s a great name for coffee shop!

138 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:44:41pm

re: #131 Archimedes

That’s what I’d always heard.

Beatle mania, baby.

Doesn’t that rather support my thesis that there are two types of rock fans in the world: beatles and stones?

139 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:44:57pm

re: #122 A Kiwi Infidel

That sounds painful…………

Your mind matches where you live.

/heh, unless “Down Under” refers specifically to Australia … (-:

140 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:44:57pm

Indeed, you could say that many of the problems we see today in the Congo are legacy of the missionaries and traders Leopold sent.

The link:

[Link: www.yale.edu…]

141 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:45:54pm

re: #133 gmsc

Didn’t they borrow that jewel-covered boat? I heard something about the Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyam.

Yes, but sad to say, it sank on the road to mandalay, where the flying fishes play, and the sun comes thundering up outta china across the bay.

142 Archimedes  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:46:20pm

re: #129 Charles

That’s by Casey Luskin. Even among that group of luddite sub-geniuses, Luskin is an especially dim bulb. Anyone else who had been caught in so many lies and evasions and distortions would probably slink away and stop posting idiocy on the intarwebs - but Luskin keeps plugging away.

A great website for debunking is debunkers.org, btw. Most of the people who post there are scientists and engineers.

Here is the forum:
[Link: www.debunkers.org…]

I used to frequent it. It was a great source for information on issues of science such as global warming and evolution.

143 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:46:31pm

re: #136 katemaclaren

Duck shoes sound so darn cute and clowny!

144 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:46:32pm

re: #128 gmsc

I heard they went on to build a house on Whynchataka Peak, overlooking Veronica Lake.

*grips head*
EWWWWW!

/the greatest tribute a punster can give

145 Archimedes  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:46:57pm

re: #138 Guanxi88

Doesn’t that rather support my thesis that there are two types of rock fans in the world: beatles and stones?

I”m a Stones fan, myself. Not big on the Beatles.

146 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:47:28pm

re: #21 FrogMarch

Penn seems to like that part as well.

147 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:47:29pm

re: #109 jaunte

I just read the Klinghoffer piece, and good grief, what a ramshackle, tacked together assemblage of gimcrack logical leaps.

I had to have a strong cup of coffee just to clear my head after reading it. The man just types whatever pops into his head on any given day apparently.

148 witness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:47:57pm

OT: What’s up with Glenn Beck? I just caught his show on FOX (rerun?) and he was doing an interview with a man who’s daughter disappeared in Mexico under mysterious circumstances. Beck was visibly upset to the point of tears, and on two occasions mentioned that he finally has the backing of a network (FOX) who will help him help this man investigate his daughters disappearance. Does anyone know if CNN dropped him because of this story? Is there more to this (like CNN covering up something related to Mexican government or some other shady dealings?)

149 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:48:15pm

re: #133 gmsc

Didn’t they borrow that jewel-covered boat? I heard something about the Ruby Yacht of Omar Khayyam.

I think they Khayyam dhows.

150 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:48:15pm

re: #136 katemaclaren

That picture looks like my feet feel today.
Apparently, there isn’t much interest in Lucy at the exhibit. So I hear. Few visitors.

I didn’t know about the exhibit until I saw this thread. It doesn’t seem like their advertising for this one is as abundant as it has been for some in the past. (Or maybe I just watch less local television than I used to.)

I’m thinking of going, but man, I hate going downtown…and there’s been a lot of talk about gang activity at the Center. Maybe that has something to do with it, too.

151 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:48:27pm

re: #145 Archimedes

I”m a Stones fan, myself. Not big on the Beatles.

And yet, Lucy unites us all. Stones named in honor of the Beatles. (Stones man myself; millennia from now, when the tattered and wretched survivors of the 2012 apocalypse get it together and rebuild civilization, “Mikk Jakker” will be the name of their god of music.)

152 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:49:22pm

re: #129 Charles

He is also using the same creationist quote mine as Adnan Oktar. Google search: alleged restorations of ancient types of man have very little, if any, scientific value and are likely only to mislead the public.

The first hit goes to the disco institute, the second goes to Hârun Yahya.

153 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:49:59pm
154 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:50:12pm

re: #148 witness

I often listen to Beck radio in the morning. He has been big on border issues for quite awhile now.

155 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:50:16pm

re: #152 Killgore Trout

He is also using the same creationist quote mine as Adnan Oktar. Google search: alleged restorations of ancient types of man have very little, if any, scientific value and are likely only to mislead the public.

The first hit goes to the disco institute, the second goes to Hârun Yahya.

in light of the Lucy thing, do you mean web-hit, or some other sort of hit? Either one works, but the latter would explain some things.

156 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:51:02pm

re: #50 Guanxi88

“Tinfoolery”, I like it.

Tinfoilery?

157 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:51:38pm

Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren’t no Ten Commandments an’ a man can raise a thirst;
For the temple-bells are callin’, an’ it’s there that I would be —
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea;
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay,
With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay!
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin’-fishes play,
An’ the dawn comes up like thunder outer China ‘crost the Bay!

158 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:51:52pm

Did Lucy believe in evolution while she was cavorting with dinosaurs, hmmm?

159 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:52:13pm

re: #139 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Your mind matches where you live.

/heh, unless “Down Under” refers specifically to Australia … (-:

Nahhhhh, more like this and this and this and this

160 witness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:52:34pm

re: #154 screaming_eagle

Yes I know. I have followed him for a while and was surprised (or maybe not since I was surprised CNN had him on in the first place). But what I mean is, I never knew why they dropped him? I suspect he was digging too deep into a story like this and there is some connections that CNN didn’t want revealed or was told to hush up?

161 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:52:52pm

re: #153 buzzsawmonkey

The heyday of European colonialism may have been over by the beginning of the 20th Century, but its actual end is well within living memory.

And now (still), Islamic colonialism!

162 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:53:03pm

re: #158 itellu3times

Did Lucy believe in evolution while she was cavorting with dinosaurs, hmmm?

No I think she was a Baptist.

////

163 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:53:20pm

re: #145 Archimedes

I”m a Stones fan, myself. Not big on the Beatles.

I am proud to say my daughter is a Led Head..I raised her right..
When your little girl ask you if the rock and roll playing is too loud for you..
Well I smile inside…You know what is really weird? My Son in the Marines loves..He adores Peter Frampton..His iPod is full of Frampton songs…wierd..
I have more rap on my ipod than he does…Frampton? Just plain weird

164 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:53:26pm

re: #155 Guanxi88

I was using hit as a synonym for result.

165 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:54:05pm
166 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:54:18pm

re: #159 A Kiwi Infidel

Nahhhhh, more like this and this and this and this

WOW!
Those are NZ, right?!

167 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:54:52pm

re: #160 witness

I don’t have cable. I’m personally guessing it had to do with his perspective on alot of different stories.

168 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:55:02pm

re: #124 buzzsawmonkey

“Of sorts” indeed. :D

In some ways they are out of date, since they reflect the social circumstances of a different time, but the themes are timeless - especially, to me, the one you mentioned - It Can’t Happen Here.

Plus, I enjoy his writing. I was surprised at that, but not as much as I was when I found I enjoyed John Bunyan’s A Pilgrim’s Progress.

169 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:55:07pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

I was using hit as a synonym for result.

Joke, joke, a drug joke. You see, there’s a hallucinogen, called….

never mind.

170 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:55:16pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

Don’t forget the historical ignorance. The colonial era started around 1400 (1450?) Darwin didn’t publish his theory of evolution until about 1850. Colonialism was pretty much over by 1900 (1940?).

Colonialism got started with the ancient Greeks.

But the modern era of colonialism can be dated to roughly 1494/5, with the second of Columbus’ expeditions to the New World.

171 katemaclaren  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:55:23pm

re: #143 debutaunt

Duck shoes sound so darn cute and clowny!

Ain’t it the truth!? Quack!

172 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:55:42pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

I feel like I’m back in 1964.

Funny, I fell like I’m just about 25 years earlier than that.

173 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:56:18pm

Not a fan of Glenn Beck. He’s a Ron Paul booster, and also a creationist.

174 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:56:32pm

re: #153 buzzsawmonkey

my original estimate of 1900 might have been a bit early but I was thinking about when the Europeans started to give up colonialism. They had pretty much given up by 1930-40. Some colonies lasted past that but the era was over before then.

175 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:56:43pm

re: #171 katemaclaren

Ain’t it the truth!? Quack!

It’s not “Quack” it’s Aflac

176 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:57:09pm
177 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:57:10pm

re: #169 Guanxi88

Ah, sorry, It’s only noon here and I’m still waking up.

178 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:57:15pm

re: #170 Dianna

Colonialism got started with the ancient Greeks.

But the modern era of colonialism can be dated to roughly 1494/5, with the second of Columbus’ expeditions to the New World.

Darwin led to Columbus!

Oh … wait.

179 Catttt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:57:48pm

You know, I think maybe a lot of the people who fall for the ID thing don’t realize what the ID folks are actually saying. I think people go “well, yeah, God created everything,” but they don’t think “well, yeah, God created everything just the way it is now 5,000 years ago, on a Tuesday, at 1 p.m. ET.”

Maybe I’m wrong, but I like to think that with a little discussion, most people would go “OH - no! I didn’t know THAT’S what they meant!”

Again. I could be wrong. I hope not.

180 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:59:01pm
181 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:59:26pm

re: #178 Charles

Darwin led to Columbus!

Oh … wait.

With DI? You never know!

182 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 12:59:39pm

re: #173 Charles

Not a fan of Glenn Beck. He’s a Ron Paul booster, and also a creationist.


Yeh he is a strong pusher of religous issues. Doesn’t mean his coverage and perspective of everything isn’t worthless. He is doom and gloom on alot of things ,but sometimes one does have to consider the worse case.

183 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:00:26pm

re: #157 Guanxi88

Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst,
Where there aren’t no Ten Commandments an’ a man can raise a thirst;
For the temple-bells are callin’, an’ it’s there that I would be —
By the old Moulmein Pagoda, looking lazy at the sea;
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the old Flotilla lay,
With our sick beneath the awnings when we went to Mandalay!
On the road to Mandalay,
Where the flyin’-fishes play,
An’ the dawn comes up like thunder outer China ‘crost the Bay!

I love the Red Norvo/Sinatra version of that.

184 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:01:28pm

All this talk of colonialism had triggered a Kipling reverie:

IN THE NEOLITHIC AGE


In the Neolithic Age savage warfare did I wage
For food and fame and woolly horses’ pelt;
I was singer to my clan in that dim, red Dawn of Man,
And I sang of all we fought and feared and felt.

Yea, I sang as now I sing, when the Prehistoric spring
Made the piled Biscayan ice-pack split and shove;
And the troll and gnome and dwerg, and the Gods of Cliff and Berg
Were about me and beneath me and above.

But a rival, of Solutr]/e, told the tribe my style was ~outr]/e~ —
‘Neath a tomahawk of diorite he fell.
And I left my views on Art, barbed and tanged, below the heart
Of a mammothistic etcher at Grenelle.

Then I stripped them, scalp from skull, and my hunting dogs fed full,
And their teeth I threaded neatly on a thong;
And I wiped my mouth and said, “It is well that they are dead,
For I know my work is right and theirs was wrong.”

But my Totem saw the shame; from his ridgepole shrine he came,
And he told me in a vision of the night: —
“There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
And every single one of them is right!”

. . . . .

Then the silence closed upon me till They put new clothing on me
Of whiter, weaker flesh and bone more frail;
And I stepped beneath Time’s finger, once again a tribal singer
[And a minor poet certified by Tr—ll].

Still they skirmish to and fro, men my messmates on the snow,
When we headed off the aurochs turn for turn;
When the rich Allobrogenses never kept amanuenses,
And our only plots were piled in lakes at Berne.

Still a cultured Christian age sees us scuffle, squeak, and rage,
Still we pinch and slap and jabber, scratch and dirk;
Still we let our business slide — as we dropped the half-dressed hide —
To show a fellow-savage how to work.

Still the world is wondrous large, — seven seas from marge to marge, —
And it holds a vast of various kinds of man;
And the wildest dreams of Kew are the facts of Khatmandhu,
And the crimes of Clapham chaste in Martaban.

Here’s my wisdom for your use, as I learned it when the moose
And the reindeer roared where Paris roars to-night: —
There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
And — every — single — one — of — them — is — right!

185 screaming_eagle  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:01:36pm

re: #179 Catttt

You know, I think maybe a lot of the people who fall for the ID thing don’t realize what the ID folks are actually saying. I think people go “well, yeah, God created everything,” but they don’t think “well, yeah, God created everything just the way it is now 5,000 years ago, on a Tuesday, at 1 p.m. ET.”

Maybe I’m wrong, but I like to think that with a little discussion, most people would go “OH - no! I didn’t know THAT’S what they meant!”

Again. I could be wrong. I hope not.

I agree that the mases that support it don’t exactly underdstand it.

186 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:01:47pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

I feel like I’m back in 1964.

Beachboys?

187 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:03:08pm

THE WIDOW AT WINDSOR


‘Ave you ‘eard o’ the Widow at Windsor
With a hairy gold crown on ‘er ‘ead?
She ‘as ships on the foam — she ‘as millions at ‘ome,
An’ she pays us poor beggars in red.
(Ow, poor beggars in red!)
There’s ‘er nick on the cavalry ‘orses,
There’s ‘er mark on the medical stores —
An’ ‘er troopers you’ll find with a fair wind be’ind
That takes us to various wars.
(Poor beggars! — barbarious wars!)
Then ‘ere’s to the Widow at Windsor,
An’ ‘ere’s to the stores an’ the guns,
The men an’ the ‘orses what makes up the forces
O’ Missis Victorier’s sons.
(Poor beggars! Victorier’s sons!)

Walk wide o’ the Widow at Windsor,
For ‘alf o’ Creation she owns:
We ‘ave bought ‘er the same with the sword an’ the flame,
An’ we’ve salted it down with our bones.
(Poor beggars! — it’s blue with our bones!)
Hands off o’ the sons o’ the Widow,
Hands off o’ the goods in ‘er shop,
For the Kings must come down an’ the Emperors frown
When the Widow at Windsor says “Stop”!
(Poor beggars! — we’re sent to say “Stop”!)
Then ‘ere’s to the Lodge o’ the Widow,
From the Pole to the Tropics it runs —
To the Lodge that we tile with the rank an’ the file,
An’ open in form with the guns.
(Poor beggars! — it’s always they guns!)

We ‘ave ‘eard o’ the Widow at Windsor,
It’s safest to let ‘er alone:
For ‘er sentries we stand by the sea an’ the land
Wherever the bugles are blown.
(Poor beggars! — an’ don’t we get blown!)
Take ‘old o’ the Wings o’ the Mornin’,
An’ flop round the earth till you’re dead;
But you won’t get away from the tune that they play
To the bloomin’ old rag over’ead.
(Poor beggars! — it’s ‘ot over’ead!)
Then ‘ere’s to the sons o’ the Widow,
Wherever, ‘owever they roam.
‘Ere’s all they desire, an’ if they require
A speedy return to their ‘ome.
(Poor beggars! — they’ll never see ‘ome!)

188 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:03:13pm

re: #173 Charles

Not a fan of Glenn Beck. He’s a Ron Paul booster, and also a creationist.

And a drama queen. Oy.

189 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:03:33pm

re: #186 debutaunt

Beachboys?

Springsteen is on Tivo for the half time show of the superbowl.
l

190 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:04:25pm

re: #186 debutaunt

Beachboys?

What do you get when you cross the Beachboys with evolution?

191 Daisy  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:04:41pm

As a woman I’m proud that Lucy’s most vital body part is being highlighted: Her jawbone … w/out which, one could not talk. :)

192 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:04:54pm

re: #189 HoosierHoops

Springsteen is on Tivo for the half time show of the superbowl.
l

That will make you glad it’s Tivo - you can zoom right past it!

193 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:05:46pm

L’ENVOI

When Earth’s last picture is painted and the tubes are twisted and dried,
When the oldest colours have faded, and the youngest critic has died,
We shall rest, and, faith, we shall need it — lie down for an ]aeon or two,
Till the Master of All Good Workmen shall put us to work anew!

And those that were good shall be happy: they shall sit in a golden chair;
They shall splash at a ten-league canvas with brushes of comets’ hair;
They shall find real saints to draw from — Magdalene, Peter, and Paul;
They shall work for an age at a sitting and never be tired at all!

And only the Master shall praise us, and only the Master shall blame;
And no one shall work for money, and no one shall work for fame,
But each for the joy of the working, and each, in his separate star,
Shall draw the Thing as he sees It for the God of Things as They Are!

194 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:06:02pm

re: #190 gmsc

What do you get when you cross the Beachboys with evolution?



I turned off Bill Evans to listen to that?

195 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:06:32pm

re: #190 gmsc

What do you get when you cross the Beachboys with evolution?



Thanks for Annette
/though I never watched her movies

196 MJ  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:06:40pm

re: #73 Charles

He’s quoting a novel to support his idiotic contention that Darwin was a monster.

He’s supporting his argument with a quote from a fictional character.

If Klinghoffer wants to go this road, then there is quite a bit more evidence to suggest that creationists are responsible for slavery. It has about as much validation as his argument:

Let’s look at it this way: the Bible was often used to justify Slavery:
[Link: www.religioustolerance.org…]
Now because ID supports a bible interpretation of evolution, in essence, Biblical literalism, then it must follow that they also support slavery.

197 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:07:48pm

re: #194 debutaunt

I turned off Bill Evans to listen to that?

If it’s any help, I have a more geeky alternative answer.

Q: What do you get when you cross the Beach Boys with evolution?
A: Beach Boys evolution cosine theta.

198 witness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:08:02pm

re: #173 Charles

Yes, but I’ve tried to overlook his overt religious slant, because of the other messages he brings to the table. At least he pushes the envelope and although it may be in different directions, I can give him some credit for the things I agree with (of which creationism is not one of them). I think Ron Paul is a nut job with regards to national security, but a lot of what he says on the economy has merit. I would not zealously follow either of these two, but there are aspects of their views that are on target IMO. Wish we could find people that had all the correct views in one package, but that person would be perfect (in each of our own viewpoints ;-) Anyway, he has Michelle Malkin on frequently so I guess that makes up for RP and BS?

199 Rexatosis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:08:11pm

If we are talking rock (as opposed to fossils) I have to go with the Yardbirds and its trinity of guitar gods: Clapton, Beck, and Page.

200 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:08:40pm

re: #195 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thanks for Annette
/though I never watched her movies

You’re welcome.

201 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:08:54pm

re: #173 Charles

Here Glenn Beck and Ben Stein praise Ron Paul….
Ben Stein: Ron Paul - That smart guy from Texas

202 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:08:56pm

re: #191 Daisy

As a woman I’m proud that Lucy’s most vital body part is being highlighted: Her jawbone … w/out which, one could not talk. :)

(*ponder* … dare I comment …

203 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:09:01pm
204 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:09:35pm

re: #197 gmsc

If it’s any help, I have a more geeky alternative answer.

Q: What do you get when you cross the Beach Boys with evolution?
A: Beach Boys evolution cosine theta.

Now that’s funny and currently Oscar Peterson is playing on Pandora.

205 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:09:35pm
206 snowcrash  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:09:35pm

re: #191 Daisy
I don’t know if human language emerged yet for Lucy.

207 faraway  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:09:41pm

So, Lucy was our direct ancestor?

208 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:10:02pm

re: #179 Catttt


Maybe I’m wrong, but I like to think that with a little discussion, most people would go “OH - no! I didn’t know THAT’S what they meant!”

As the discussion has evolved here, there are many who have come around to that conclusion, or “seen the light” if you will.

209 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:10:27pm

re: #203 buzzsawmonkey

You know, for all his faults, there’s no beating old Rudyard for good, solid, English poetry.

No, I like my Eliot et al just fine, but Kipling’s still my favorite. If it marks me as middle-to-lowbrow, so be it.

210 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:10:31pm

re: #192 gmsc

That will make you glad it’s Tivo - you can zoom right past it!

Bite your tongue!
I think it was 1985 when my mom bought all the kids tickets to see Bruce..
It was on Elvis’s birthday..So The Boss did an extra hour of onlt Elvis songs..Best night of music in my life

211 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:12:00pm

re: #207 faraway

Lucy was Australopithecus afarensis. You can see how she fits in here

212 pink freud  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:12:44pm

re: #209 Guanxi88

Browist!

213 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:12:51pm
214 faraway  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:13:06pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

Lucy was Australopithecus afarensis. You can see how she fits in here

I was just reading that actually. Still don’t see our direct ancestor though. Can you help?

215 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:13:22pm

Just heard on news that the Grammys are on tonight — Does anyone still watch those?

216 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:13:45pm

re: #209 Guanxi88

You know, for all his faults, there’s no beating old Rudyard for good, solid, English poetry.

No, I like my Eliot et al just fine, but Kipling’s still my favorite. If it marks me as middle-to-lowbrow, so be it.

That answers that question for Guanxi88.

How about anyone else? Do you like Kipling?

217 dbeesh  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:14:03pm

I can’t understand the unrealistic fear when LGF talks about creationism. If we are truly suppose to be in a free society, with the free exchange of ideas, why are the Christian belief of creation handled with such contempt. Allowing creationism to be taught along side evolution is the true exercise in free exchange.

I am a Christian and guess what, I believe that God created life and His creation evolved. If I didn’t believe in evolution I would not believe in new medicines that treat genetic alterations of bacteria. I would deny any scientific findings of the genetic changes in species by nature or by specialized breeding.

I DO have a problem believing a cosmic speck fell into a primordial slime and crawled out as the genesis of what we see today. It would be impossible for a speck to developer a brain, nervous system and the miracles of sight, reproduction and instinct.

It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

218 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:14:08pm

re: #212 pink freud

Browist!

A browist with a rating of 88 on the Guanix scale.

219 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:14:30pm

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

Thank you!

220 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:14:45pm

I like Kipling a lot, it’s where I first discovered interest in the subcontinent.

221 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:15:07pm

re: #216 gmsc

That answers that question for Guanxi88.

How about anyone else? Do you like Kipling?

I adore Kipling.

222 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:15:09pm

re: #214 faraway

I was just reading that actually. Still don’t see our direct ancestor though. Can you help?

Here you go again. “Dance, evolutionist, dance!”

223 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:15:57pm

re: #220 Thanos

I like Kipling a lot, it’s where I first discovered interest in the subcontinent.

Is that what kipling refers to?

224 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:16:25pm
225 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:16:40pm

They’re heeeerre…..

226 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:16:49pm

re: #222 Charles

Here you go again. “Dance, evolutionist, dance!”

Longago and faraway went into a museum.

227 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:16:55pm

Since I didn’t sleep last night, I’m going to shut up.

228 allbusiness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:16:59pm

I’ll be taking my girlfriend to the science center for V-Day… science is romantic!

229 faraway  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:17:09pm

re: #222 Charles

Here you go again. “Dance, evolutionist, dance!”

Just looking for answers to basic questions. I hope we are all looking for answers.

230 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:17:11pm

re: #214 faraway

I can’t do a direct link to the chart but if you go about 1/4 the way down the page there’s an ugly yellow and pink chart. look for A. Afarnses (in the Pliocene era.

231 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:17:21pm

re: #223 debutaunt

Is that what kipling refers to?

One Kipples if one likes Kipling.

232 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:17:33pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

Lucy was Australopithecus afarensis. You can see how she fits in here

You’re obviously pushing a gay agenda here, that link went into all kinds of talk about different homos.
////

233 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:18:15pm

re: #217 dbeesh

I would turn the question on you, why is it you are in such fear that you must force your beliefs into science class? Do you see Dawkins advocating teaching Evolution in Sunday School?

234 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:18:40pm

re: #229 faraway

Just looking for answers to basic questions. I hope we are all looking for answers.

You don’t read links, you don’t respond to arguments. Why pretend that you’re looking for answers? You’re just jerking people around with this stuff.

235 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:18:47pm

re: #229 faraway

“Just looking for answers to basic questions. I hope we are all looking for answers.” Gee where have I heard that before?

236 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:19:01pm

re: #231 Dianna

One Kipples if one likes Kipling.

You sleepy person! You ignored my invisible sarc tag.

237 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:19:21pm

re: #215 Thanos

Just heard on news that the Grammys are on tonight — Does anyone still watch those?

I’ve gotta watch my grammy all the time, otherwise she’ll leave the stove on and burn down her house.
/

238 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:20:15pm

If anyone thinks I’m being too hard on ‘faraway’, read this thread and see what kind of game is being played.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

239 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:20:22pm

re: #224 buzzsawmonkey

… if they still taught … history classes

Don’t bring that up. Leave me to my memories.
*sniff*
/verrrry old school

Yes, I agree that that should be taught, and not just about the Old West.

240 MJ  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:20:44pm

re: #217 dbeesh

I can’t understand the unrealistic fear when LGF talks about creationism. If we are truly suppose to be in a free society, with the free exchange of ideas, why are the Christian belief of creation handled with such contempt. Allowing creationism to be taught along side evolution is the true exercise in free exchange.

I am a Christian and guess what, I believe that God created life and His creation evolved. If I didn’t believe in evolution I would not believe in new medicines that treat genetic alterations of bacteria. I would deny any scientific findings of the genetic changes in species by nature or by specialized breeding.

I DO have a problem believing a cosmic speck fell into a primordial slime and crawled out as the genesis of what we see today. It would be impossible for a speck to developer a brain, nervous system and the miracles of sight, reproduction and instinct.

It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

I wouldn’t say LGF has a “fear” of creationism”. As an individual in a free society, you are welcome to believe what you want to believe. However, you are not free, nor are creationists free, to teach what is a religious belief as science.

241 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:21:02pm

re: #236 debutaunt

You sleepy person! You ignored my invisible sarc tag.

Clearly…damn, I’m fogged.

It was invisible? Really?

242 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:21:52pm

re: #241 Dianna

Clearly…damn, I’m fogged.

It was invisible? Really?

Time for a nap…

243 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:22:02pm

re: #232 Slumbering Behemoth

Jocko Homo

244 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:22:18pm

re: #71 HoosierHoops

A few days ago we were discussing Science..And I posted my favorite Scientist’s blog site…
Thanks to those lizards who dropped by for a visit and said hello..He only gets like 5 hits a month..usually from post grads looking to get extra credit.
So it was pretty cool for him to get some hits from here talking about math and science..not the fake shit..But real science…

Post it again then, please.

245 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:22:51pm

re: #217 dbeesh

Allowing creationism to be taught along side evolution is the true exercise in free exchange.

It’s NOT science. If you want to have this discussion it belongs in other classes perhaps, but NOT in a public school science classroom.

246 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:23:11pm

re: #217 dbeesh

unrealistic fear

I see none of that here.
Perhaps you’d like for us to feel that way.
Why would you?
Explain that, please.

247 Dianna  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:24:26pm

re: #242 debutaunt

Time for a nap…

If I could sleep, yeah.

The Male wants to trim the trees out front. How he expects me to be of any help, I don’t know. But I’m going to go try.

248 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:24:55pm

re: #246 pre-Boomer Marine brat

MWAH!

249 Empire1  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:09pm

re: #216 gmsc

That answers that question for Guanxi88.

How about anyone else? Do you like Kipling?

Very much! Like Guanxi88, there are other poets (a few) that I like, but Kipling is my favorite by far.

250 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:23pm

re: #207 faraway

So, Lucy was our direct ancestor?

Not the way you are thinking.

251 faraway  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:26pm

re: #234 Charles

You don’t read links, you don’t respond to arguments. Why pretend that you’re looking for answers? You’re just jerking people around with this stuff.

hmmm… As you know, I read the link you gave me yesterday. I questioned your link. Now I get smeared.

252 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:28pm

re: #233 Thanos

Do you see Dawkins advocating teaching Evolution in Sunday School?


Hitchens couldn’t do it, he sleeps too late.

253 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:36pm

re: #217 dbeesh

It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

And this is not what’s going on here. If you or any other creationist has some scientific empirical evidence to disprove evolution, please present it.

Otherwise, this site allows it’s members to discuss the wide array of faiths subscribed to by said members, but we also know the difference between science and religion.

254 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:44pm

re: #244 Naso Tang

Post it again then, please.

Sure my friend..the current topic is Quantum field theories..play nice please..
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com…]

255 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:45pm
256 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:25:47pm

re: #247 Dianna

If I could sleep, yeah.

The Male wants to trim the trees out front. How he expects me to be of any help, I don’t know. But I’m going to go try.

Time for Savatore to climb up there with a saw?

257 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:26:00pm

re: #217 dbeesh

I can’t understand the unrealistic fear when LGF talks about creationism. If we are truly suppose to be in a free society, with the free exchange of ideas, why are the Christian belief of creation handled with such contempt. Allowing creationism to be taught along side evolution is the true exercise in free exchange.

Teaching religious beliefs in public school science classes is a violation of the Constitution of the United States. Let’s start with that.

258 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:27:03pm

re: #257 Charles

Maybe dbeesh can just pray for you.

259 monkeytime  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:27:10pm

This is a great piece written about creationism by friend of Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould. It is honest and kind at the same time.

Stephen Jay Gould, “Nonoverlapping Magisteria


“I dedicate this essay to his memory. Carl also shared my personal suspicion
about the nonexistence of souls-but I cannot think of a better reason for
hoping we are wrong than the prospect of spending eternity roaming the
cosmos in friendship and conversation with this wonderful soul.”

260 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:27:44pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

It’s NOT science. If you want to have this discussion it belongs in other classes perhaps, but NOT in a public school science classroom.

Creationism/ID is easy to teach, though: “Where do we come from? An invisible man in the sky took some dirt and added magic, so here we are.”


/////

261 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:28:12pm

re: #248 goddessoftheclassroom

MWAH!

*sniff*

262 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:28:23pm

Geez, maybe it’s my machine, or maybe the hamsters need more coffee, Charles, but things are kinda creeping when I hit the New Comments Button.

263 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:28:37pm
264 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:28:45pm

re: #217 dbeesh


It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

Your limitation is that you have yet to recognize a discussion on faith from one on facts and other verifiable truths, grasshopper.

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:28:51pm

re: #217 dbeesh


It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

People promote their beliefs all the time, and no one here has a problem with that, at least as far as I can tell. However, this does not mean opinions or beliefs won’t be challenged or rebutted here.

What causes concern is when highly funded groups try to use the force of government to push their religious beliefs on other people’s children in public schools, in the pursuit of an unconstitutional and anti-American agenda, and while having the audacity to call their religious beliefs “science”.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:30:03pm

Watching “Jaws”.

This is one of the greatest movies evah!

267 Spiny Norman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:30:52pm

re: #151 Guanxi88

And yet, Lucy unites us all. Stones named in honor of the Beatles. (Stones man myself; millennia from now, when the tattered and wretched survivors of the 2012 apocalypse get it together and rebuild civilization, “Mikk Jakker” will be the name of their god of music.)

And Keith Richards will be regaling the faithful with stories of their glory days of yore…

268 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:30:55pm
269 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:31:03pm

re: #261 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*sniff*

Awwwwwwww,,,

270 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:31:59pm

re: #233 Thanos

I would turn the question on you, why is it you are in such fear that you must force your beliefs into science class? Do you see Dawkins advocating teaching Evolution in Sunday School?

Or using the force of government to get “disclaimer stickers” put in every bible?

271 MJ  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:32:49pm

re: #257 Charles

Teaching religious beliefs in public school science classes is a violation of the Constitution of the United States. Let’s start with that.

One of the interesting side effects of the ID push is that it accomplishes exactly what “Conservatives” say they are against ; that is, the federalization of local school districts. ID ( biblical literalism, creationism, call it what you will), will always be unconstitutional according to the Establishment Clause. All laws passed by the supporters of ID will eventually be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Thus those who argue for local control are ensuring themselves of Federal oversight.

272 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:32:51pm

Here come the creationist down-dingers again.

273 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:33:04pm

re: #269 goddessoftheclassroom

Awwwwwwww,,,

oh THANK you!
MWAH!

274 CynicalConservative  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:33:35pm

re: #272 Charles

Here come the creationist down-dingers again.

What, do they have a twitter network or something so they can all notify each other and come out en-masse?

275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:33:50pm

I promise I will not be a terrorist. Really. I promise.

276 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:35:02pm
277 Spiny Norman  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:35:09pm

re: #275 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I promise I will not be a terrorist. Really. I promise.

Wrong thread, FBV? I hate it when I do that!

278 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:35:19pm

re: #217 dbeesh

It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

Don’t care if you have a religious belief that strawberry is better than chocolate and demand equal time for your beliefs. Just not interested, and your insistence is inappropriate.

279 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:36:12pm

re: #276 goddessoftheclassroom

Just remember your place…

LOL that was cute goddess

280 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:36:19pm

re: #166 pre-Boomer Marine brat

WOW!
Those are NZ, right?!

Sorry, had to pop out. Yes, those are just a wee snippet of NZ

281 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:36:54pm

re: #268 taxfreekiller

Is Newt Gingrich part of Human Events?

TFK, you’ll find both good and bad there, it’s mostly a business and publishing concern. Coulter is one of their legal editors, but they are “the pundit-publishing-talking head circuit, or old media nexus” of conservatism. Using the author as the source, and not the mag would be my watchword there, it’s more of a stable of authors.

282 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:37:37pm

re: #276 goddessoftheclassroom

Just remember your place…

Perhaps you’d better count your blessings … while you still have all of them

283 Jetpilot1101  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:38:23pm

This morning, after perusing yet another one of Charles’ excellent evolution threads, a couple thoughts came to me that I would like to share with you. It dawned on me that the only way that the “young earth” creationists could be remotely correct was if the biblical story of the creation of the world not only happened in six ACTUAL days but also in six CONSECUTIVE days. Now I could be wrong but to date, the creationist insist that God created the earth in six days and that there is no room for the argument that maybe the word “day” in the Bible was a figure of speech for say a “period of time” maybe as long as one million or even one billion years. In other words, at some point in the past (they claim 6000 years ago), God created everything and set the universe into motion. But nowhere in the biblical account in Genesis does the word CONSECUTIVE appear. So my question to them is did God create everything in a literal week or is there some time allotted in between the six days? I think I know the answer to that one.

But let’s assume that maybe one of these folks humors me and says that maybe God didn’t create everything in six consecutive days. But my guess is that his next two questions will be so what happened in all that time between days and why did God have to wait, after all He is omnipotent. Here are my answers if you will indulge me:

By all accounts, the earth is roughly 4.55 billion (with a B) years old.

Age of the earth

Now this may be higher math to some creationists but 4.55 billion years is equal to 1,661.8875 billion (again with a B) days.

Human beings first appeared on the planet about 195,000 years ago which is roughly 0.000195 billion years ago.

When did humans appear on the earth?

Again, higher math but that means that Humans appeared roughly .07122375 billion days ago. So lets subtract this number from the age of the earth and we figure out that the earth was without humans for roughly 1661.81627625 billion days or 4.549805 billion years. Now according to the Bible, Humans were created on day number six which means that the other five days would have encompassed these previous 4.549805 billion years.

So lets start at the beginning. Lets say that God started on day one and did what the Bible claims. If God took even breaks between days, that would mean that after day one he took five breaks until day six and each one of them encompassed 332.36325525 billion days or 0.909961 billion years. I don’t know about you but that is a lot of time in between days.

Enough time for say something like EVOLUTION. Wow, funny you should say that because I was just thinking that. Seems to me that if God waited a bit in between days, evolution could have happened and actually be documented in the Bible. Since there is no translation of the Bible that I have read that says that the days happened in consecutive order, who knows how long God waited in between the recorded days. Furthermore, there is a plethora of science and fossils that back up the claim that the earth is 4.55 billion years old and there is also a huge amount of evidence to suggest that evolution not only happened but is still happening. So to you creationists who think the earth is 6000 years old, I challenge you to show me the evidence of it and I also challenge you to explain to me where in the Bible it says that God created the earth in six CONSECUTIVE days. If you can’t show me the word “consecutive”, you argument is null and void. I believe that the Bible not only supports evolution but that it was the mechanism that was used to form life as we know it on this planet.

284 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:38:32pm

re: #280 A Kiwi Infidel

Sorry, had to pop out. Yes, those are just a wee snippet of NZ

Gorgeous!

285 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:38:53pm

re: #266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching “Jaws”.

This is one of the greatest movies evah!

duh dum duh dum duh dum……

I enjoyed my snorkling a lot less after that movie, and I have seen a great white off the beach where I dove, and a littler shark bite a friend next to me.

I still think those thoughts when I swim in such waters. Helps the circulation.

286 Jetpilot1101  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:39:42pm

Part 2

So what about question two, you know what did God do during in between days. Well for starters, one third of God’s friends gave him the big F-you and followed Lucifer. Now I don’t know about you but I’d be pretty bummed if one third of my friends left me for some dude who wasn’t as powerful but that is beside the point. The point is that there was a whole mess of demons running around the universe most likely causing some serious problems. Maybe God had to go deal with a few of the issues that were popping up and left after day one to go mop up an insurrection here or a rebellion there.

But God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient so he could have created and dealt with the demon Jihad. OK, fair enough so lets answer the question based on simple science and the laws of physics, something the creationists will have to admit God created. As I write this, the current estimation of star in the universe is something like 10 to the 24th power. That is a lot of stars and most of them are millions, if not billions of light years away.

Number of Stars

Why does this matter? Well for starters, according to the Bible, God created stars on the fourth day. If we assume that the creationist we are talking to allowed God to take breaks, then God would have taken three breaks or roughly 2.729883 billion years would have elapsed before day four. Seems to me that this is just about the right amount of time for those stars, many of them billions of light years away, to begin popping up in the night sky. It sure sounds to me that the Bible is actually proving the theories of evolution and the big bang right under the creationist’s noses.

Now maybe my reasoning is flawed, and maybe I’m way off base here but the above diatribe is my way of reconciling my Christian faith with both evolution and the big bang theory. See the Bible was never meant to be a science book; it was meant to be a spiritual book that drew you to Jesus Christ. God didn’t include quantum mechanics and superstring theory in the Bible for a reason, it isn’t important in your spiritual journey. Science should point out to us that we are such a small part of this enormous universe. Science should show you the wonder of our origins and the beauty of the world around us. If you happen to be spiritual, maybe science will point you more towards God, I know it does this for me. If you aren’t, then it will most certainly amaze you and leave you in awe. Creationism has hijacked the Christian faith and it needs to stop. Nothing prevents you from believing what you want to believe but don’t force it on others and certainly don’t be dishonest (lying for Jesus – that just pisses me off). ID is not a joke, it is worse than that. It is a strategy to try and return this country to a theocracy. Thank you Charles for doing what you do. Keep up the good work and keep keeping us all informed.

287 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:39:51pm

Hey, maybe we ned to re-think this ID/ creationist stuff. Seems you can get an online degree in it from an outfit right here in the Lone Star state:

[Link: www.icr.edu…]

Say this, though; the THECB (Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board) makes no bones (a pun, of course) about its reservations about this “Institute”:

‘Commissioner Paredes reiterated his earlier point that the decision to deny a Certificate of Authority to the ICR was not questioning the validity of religious belief as a means of comprehending the world and un-iverse around us. However, “religious belief is not science. Science and religious belief are reconcilable,” he said, “but they are not the same thing.”’

See a huge document-dump about this controversy at: [Link: www.thecb.state.tx.us…]

Take a close look at [Link: www.thecb.state.tx.us…] they’ve got their program of study listed starting at page 9. Course offerings include:

The Nephalim and Noah’s Flood

But my favorite line from a course description is for Lesson 25: Stewardship & Social Evolution:

“Long ago the ideas of Atheism and occult mysticism have permeated social thinking.”

You couldn’t parody this stuff if you tried.

288 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:39:56pm
289 Macker  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:40:47pm

re: #89 A Kiwi Infidel

Dinged you down since you misspelled The Doctor’s A-Number One Enemy!

290 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:41:18pm
291 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:42:28pm

re: #217 dbeesh

I DO have a problem believing a cosmic speck fell into a primordial slime and crawled out as the genesis of what we see today. It would be impossible for a speck to developer a brain, nervous system and the miracles of sight, reproduction and instinct.

So you don’t accept evolution, yet before this part of your comment you said you did. That was dishonest of you.

And there’s quite a bit of evidence to support the evolution of complex eyesight, reproductive organs, and the nervous system.

292 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:44:22pm

Just a reminder:

Post Kitzmiller the Discovery Institute threw their old allies, they Young earth creationists under the bus because they had to.
They are not Young earth creationists, they are old earth creationists, and they’ve also had to retreat on evolution as well, acknowledging that micro evolution takes place.

So if you are arguing against old earth creationism you are shooting a bit off mark, it’s now just macro evolution and our descendancy from primates that DI is trying to overturn.

293 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:44:23pm

It’s halftime of the Lakers/Cavs game..Lakers are winning..You know what I hate about pro ball? ( I know you didn’t ask) It doesn’t matter what happens the first hour of play..It could be 60-0 in the 1st quarter and you know it will be tied up with 2 minutes left in the game..It’s just the pro game..No other sport is like that..Say it’s 38-0 in a football game..first minute..10-zip in hockey, 15-0 in the 1st inning..but not pro bball…I like College Ball..The best sort in the world..and most fun to watch

294 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:44:29pm

lucy was such an important fossil discovery.
she is the oldest example of any of our human relatives to walk up right w/ a gait similar to our own.
3.2 million yrs ago. a human creature was out there, not knuckle dragging but strolling around w/ hands free to do other important activities.
like eventually make tools.
walking up right was so vital for the evolution of modern man.

295 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:44:41pm

re: #289 Macker

Dinged you down since you misspelled The Doctor’s A-Number One Enemy!


Thank you.

296 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:45:21pm

oops, “if you are arguing against young earth creationism”…

297 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:46:06pm

re: #16 Sharmuta

Well I’ll be damned- a conservative pundit who accepts evolution. Thank God for George Will- he’s officially off my shit list.

Also Charles Krauthammer.

298 gmsc  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:46:22pm

re: #283 Jetpilot1101

Age of the earth

Now this may be higher math to some creationists but 4.55 billion years is equal to 1,661.8875 billion (again with a B) days.

Human beings first appeared on the planet about 195,000 years ago which is roughly 0.000195 billion years ago.

The Toilet Paper Timeline Page shows an excellent way to visualize the history of the Earth, and when the major events happened.

299 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:46:33pm
300 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:46:42pm

Bob Brinker railing about Obama, Republicans and the stimulus plan.

301 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:46:55pm

So basically over the course of this war DI’s been in retreat, but they keep coming back trying to inject revised textbooks (Originally “Of Pandas and People” now morphed to “Exploring Evolution”) into science courses.

302 Jetpilot1101  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:47:35pm

re: #298 gmsc

Thanks.

303 Guanxi88  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:47:55pm

More from their course offerings:

GE501 : Physics & Geology of natural Disasters
The learner will be able to:

1) Explain how the study of catastrophic exogenic processes (“natural disasters”) is essential to understanding of human culture, western civilization, empirical sciences, and historical sciences.”

Yep - it’s all about the catastrophes.

304 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:47:57pm
305 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:48:10pm

TFK, I also want to tender an apology for the foul language the other night, you hit a raw nerve at a bad time.

306 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:48:13pm

re: #299 taxfreekiller

Huh?

307 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:48:57pm

re: #299 taxfreekiller

*salute*

308 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:49:20pm

re: #284 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Gorgeous!


Here are a few more up-river from where I sun myself on a rock in the late afternoons.
Here, and this and this one up even further

309 witness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:49:24pm

re: #300 Killgore Trout

Wasn’t Brinker bullish all the way down? Gary Kaltbaum is the one to follow…

310 monkeytime  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:50:35pm

re: #254 HoosierHoops

Sure my friend..the current topic is Quantum field theories..play nice please..
[Link: coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com…]

Your friend has a very nice site! I wish him good luck!

311 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:51:27pm

re: #36 Sharmuta

Dear Mr. Will,

Prepare for hate mail.

Sincerely, Sharmuta

Too late.

Almost 2 years old and not exactly hate mail, but still …

312 big steve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:51:28pm

To echo Charles original post, I wholeheartedly recommend seeing the Lucy exhibit if you can. It was in Houston a year ago. The whole exhibit is really interesting but then standing there staring at the original fossil is sublime. You don’t really realize how small she was. I was standing there and a maybe 8 year old girl walked up and the skeleton was about her size. The little girl looked up and asked the docent if she was a little girl and was told no, she was full grown and in her 20’s when she died. It is just profound to look at Lucy….that’s all.

313 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:53:33pm
314 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:54:33pm

re: #313 taxfreekiller

Thanos, etal,
tfk, had 6 Irish Coffee’s (heavy loaded with both Crown and Kulla)just then too, Thanos,
that and I’m a bit of a loud mouth pushy person
been in the trenches working against the loon Democrats like Kerry so
long, getting a bit of LDS, Liberal Disturbance Syndrome….

me to on the apology thingey

TFK, knock off the Irish Coffees…………

315 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:55:47pm

re: #309 witness

I don’t know. I was out of the country when the meltdown happened.

316 HoosierHoops  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:57:09pm

re: #314 A Kiwi Infidel

TFK, knock off the Irish Coffees…………

LOL I never heard of Irish coffee with crown in it..Wish i had been on that thread TFK..would have been fun

317 Steve  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:57:56pm

re: #313 taxfreekiller

Thanos, etal,
tfk, had 6 Irish Coffee’s (heavy loaded with both Crown and Kulla)just then too, Thanos,
that and I’m a bit of a loud mouth pushy person
been in the trenches working against the loon Democrats like Kerry so
long, getting a bit of LDS, Liberal Disturbance Syndrome….

me to on the apology thingey

Thank you for your service.
Step back, take a deep breath, and remember that the loon demons are not as smart as you. Treat them like little kids.

318 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 1:58:42pm
319 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:00:06pm

re: #315 Killgore Trout

I don’t know. I was out of the country when the meltdown happened.

See, yu coulda haz meltdown insted uv mauling

320 witness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:06:21pm

re: #315 Killgore Trout

I agree with some of Brinker’s free market views, but as a for his financial advice, its not effective in fast moving markets and you will be holding dead positions way too long. Kaltbaum understands the market for what it is: a casino and therefore in essence a human psychology laboratory. GK knows how to read the signals the market gives off (and these signals are telling of fear and greed swings marking inflection points). Its all about human nature and having patience and discipline (which is opposite to normal human tendencies).

321 apachegunner  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:14:34pm

re: #312 big steve I am in Houston this moment. is the lucy exhibit here? do you know where?

322 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:16:59pm

re: #320 witness

I like him because he’s very conservative. I’m not a risk taker and I’m not out to turn a quick buck. I’m in it for the long haul.

323 witness  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:23:22pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Yes, I understand about Brinker (I happen to like the fact is is pro nuclear power, etc.). As for long term, buy and hold is a bad strategy IMO (unless you would have bought bonds at high interest rates back in the 80’s ;-)
GK is not a day trader. You should give him a listen sometime (he is also fairly conservative and is really blasting the bailout).

324 hazzyday  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:40:12pm

The First Baptist Church in central Florida writes in support of this effort.

325 hazzyday  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:49:58pm

Florida Baptist publish an article advocating a young earth. Noting the success of the creationist Museum.

Really, this needs to become a media debate to get it out in the open. Rather than sneakily walk through the courts, this should be confronted in a media debate than emphasizes the cost of this line of thinking. Non evolving religions should give way to evolving ones.

326 hazzyday  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 2:59:33pm

I think if young earth creationism is to appear anywhere in a curriculum as a competing viewpoint it would be in Cosmology Opposing it to biology is a form of ignorance. Stephen Wise from Florida is either ignorant or under handed. Could be both.

327 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:15:48pm

re: #305 Thanos

re: #313 taxfreekiller

Awww- Group hug!

328 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 3:58:16pm

re: #136 katemaclaren

That picture looks like my feet feel today.
Apparently, there isn’t much interest in Lucy at the exhibit. So I hear. Few visitors. My cat’s name is Lucy and she doesn’t look like that, either.
o/t Lucy notwithstanding…
Just wondered if anyone feels like the government and main steam media is ignoring the terrible crisis both in Australia and in Kentucky—or in a little town around here, Coatsville, where someone seems to be trying to burn down the town?

I know I’m going to get chewed on for saying this, but damn I’m tired of talk about ID and evolution. Here, in Philadelphia, the first institution in the US to recognize Darwin’s work—celebrates that event today. Just got back. ho hummmmm. Interestingly, the talk got around to Darwin’s great granddaughter. I read a book called “Period Piece” that she wrote about growing up around the great man. I picked it up in a 5&10 in around 1961 (I know, I know) when I was a nipper for 50 cents. It was fascinating and funny. I didn’t know anything at all about Darwin until then—other than, of course, the name associated with evolution. It humanized him and kept him somewhere close in my thoughts when the topic comes up again—and again and again and again. Sigh.
(I’m now ready to duck shoes)

As long as the Disco Institute and others of their anti-science ilk continue to work to subvert the education of America’s children for perfidious ends, it will KEEP ON coming up. These smarmy snake-oil merchants must continue to be replied to, lest silence in the face of their self-serving malignancy be miasconstrued as assent.

329 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:13:03pm

re: #217 dbeesh

I can’t understand the unrealistic fear when LGF talks about creationism. If we are truly suppose to be in a free society, with the free exchange of ideas, why are the Christian belief of creation handled with such contempt. Allowing creationism to be taught along side evolution is the true exercise in free exchange.

That would be like allowing astrology to be taught alongside astronomy, alchemy to be taught alongside chemistry, and flat earth geocentrism to be taught alongside oblate spheroid earth heliocentrism. People can freely debate truths and untruths in the town square; high school students need to be taught the empirical facts.

I am a Christian and guess what, I believe that God created life and His creation evolved. If I didn’t believe in evolution I would not believe in new medicines that treat genetic alterations of bacteria. I would deny any scientific findings of the genetic changes in species by nature or by specialized breeding.

I DO have a problem believing a cosmic speck fell into a primordial slime and crawled out as the genesis of what we see today. It would be impossible for a speck to developer a brain, nervous system and the miracles of sight, reproduction and instinct.

It concerns me when a conservative blog like this reels in horror when citizens wish to promote their belief alternate to the bloggers ideas.

Just because you say it would be impossible does not make it so. The facts of matters are not matters of opinion. 3 1/2 billion years - how long there has been life on earth - is a lot of time for the terrestrial complexity and diversity of species to evolve.

And promoting the forced indoctrination of our nation’s children in dogmatic beliefs that are contrary to empirical facts is not something for which anyone should be proud. In fact, it should horrify anyone who is truly concerned about truth, our children, or our nation’s welfare.

330 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:16:50pm

re: #251 faraway

hmmm… As you know, I read the link you gave me yesterday. I questioned your link. Now I get smeared.

You may not like Charles outing you for what you in fact are, but the truth, by definition, can never be a smear.

331 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 8, 2009 4:27:26pm

re: #292 Thanos

Just a reminder:

Post Kitzmiller the Discovery Institute threw their old allies, they Young earth creationists under the bus because they had to.
They are not Young earth creationists, they are old earth creationists, and they’ve also had to retreat on evolution as well, acknowledging that micro evolution takes place.

So if you are arguing against old earth creationism you are shooting a bit off mark, it’s now just macro evolution and our descendancy from primates that DI is trying to overturn.

And artifactual retroviral DNA evidence conclusively demonstrates the empirical veracity of both macroevolution generally, and common ancestry between humans and great apes specifically.


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