Obama Criticizes Palestinian Hate Speech

Middle East • Views: 2,784

This is a little surprising, given his history of associations with radical pro-Palestinian activists like Rashid Khalidi, but maybe Barack Obama isn’t completely clueless about the Palestinian culture of hate.

Following a meeting Thursday with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, President Obama told the Palestinian leader that “ … It was very important to continue to make progress in reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square, because all those things are impediments to peace.”

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344 comments
1 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:29:56pm

It will make no difference. They will continue to hate Jews.

2 Creeping Eruption  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:30:37pm

re: #1 Sharmuta

It will make no difference. They will continue to hate Jews.

Its their religious duty.

3 Joel  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:30:39pm

Could have knocked me over with a feather. He has been nothing but supine to the Palestinians and the Islamic world until now.

4 dr. akim ullsheetbay  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:30:53pm

and then there was peace. and it was good.

5 davinvalkri  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:31:23pm

This is a pleasant surprise. It probably won't do anything in the long run, given that this institutional Jew hatred's been going on for sixty years, but it is nice.

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:31:44pm

Well, if anyone understands that rhetoric can inspire people to do things...

7 Gang of One  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:33:27pm

Next, the Strongly Worded Letter®?

8 _RememberTonyC  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:33:38pm

I'm really glad he did this, but he needs to back it up with some muscle. If they ignore him, he should tell them they're not serious about peace and make sure to treat Israel accordingly in negotiations.

9 jorline  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:33:39pm

Let me guess what Mahmoud Abbas' response was.

Pulled down his pants, bent over and fired rockets...typical!

10 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:33:40pm

Get ready for more conservative outrage. Michelle's gardening again....
Yahoo pic


First lady Michelle Obama puts on gloves to help plant a vegetable garden at Bancroft Elementary School in Washington, Friday, May 29, 2009.


Maybe she's trying to grow a new Nirth Certifikit.

11 derbal  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:34:13pm

For some reason I doubt his sincerity.

12 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:34:15pm

I heard this earlier today and was pleased.
I think he could have worded it more strongly but at least someone, somewhere has made him aware of the problem of the hate-filled street (hamas tv?)

13 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:34:20pm

If 0bama really wants to change something over there, make hamas and fatah recognize Israel's right to exist!

14 Grantman  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:34:54pm

Are you sure this was really Obama who said it?

15 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:35:04pm

re: #13 Sharmuta

Nobody can make that happen.

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:35:18pm

Hey, it's something, which is more than I expected. Now he needs to not betray the Israelis in all the other ways we were kind of expecting.

17 lawhawk  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:35:55pm

And yet, Olmert's government provided an even more generous plan for a Palestinian state than Barak provided in 2000, and Abbas rejected it without even the hint of a counter offer. How is Israel to make peace with that?

The Palestinians don't want peace, and the sooner Obama realizes it the better. His meddling on this front diverts attention from more pressing issues in the region. The Palestinians don't want peace, and they are also quick to admit that the situation in the West Bank isn't bad after all - quite the contrast to the agitprop from Hamastan. A lot of that has to do with the fact that Fatah isn't busy lobbing rockets and trying to carry out suicide bombings every other day, but Fatah isn't exactly standing by and preparing to sing kumbaya with Israel. They too want a 1-state solution that doesn't include Israel.

If they were serious, there would be counter proposals, but as we know, no Palestinian leader is prepared to go that far, because it's a certain death sentence because the Islamists have drummed it in that Israel must be destroyed, the Palestinians have drummed it into their kids for generations that this must be the case, so there's no one willing to take that offer, let alone proffer a counter.

18 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:36:01pm

Did George W. Bush mention the Palestinian hate culture in any of his speeches? I don't recall him ever doing so.

19 KenJen  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:36:09pm

re: #3 Joel

Could have knocked me over with a feather. He has been nothing but supine to the Palestinians and the Islamic world until now.

It wasn't strongly worded enough for me.

20 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:36:21pm

Like Avanti, Obama is making a Karma comeback

but I'm still keeping an eye on him

21 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:36:56pm

well it is still about actions more than words, no?

22 davesax  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:37:19pm
"to continue to make progress...that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square"

No progress has been made, and hatred of Jews is woven into the fabric of Palestinian culture.

If he was serious, he would say, "Israel should withdraw from settlements in return for recognition of a Jewish state".

That would mean something.

23 danrudy  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:37:21pm

re: #11 derbal

For some reason I doubt his sincerity.


lol...ya think?

24 Shug  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:37:35pm

I say praise the POTUS when he does a good job

so that way, when you bust his balls when he screws up, you have credibility

25 Gang of One  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:37:41pm

re: #13 Sharmuta

If 0bama really wants to change something over there, make hamas and fatah recognize Israel's right to exist!

And let Israel do whatever she needs to do to survive.

26 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:37:58pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout


Little David Martinez does not look like a happy camper (I'm missing baseball for this?)

27 lawhawk  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:38:24pm

"...continue to make progress"? Instead of daily exhortations to kill the Jews, do it weekly on Friday? That's the progress that we're going to see - as a best case scenario.

In other words, all Obama is doing here is demanding that Abbas hold up his end of the bargain under Oslo, which the Palestinians have repeatedly rejected. This isn't new ground, but restating the old formula, which has clearly worked out splendidly.

28 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:38:33pm

re: #18 Charles

Bush Goal: Palestinian State by 2009

29 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:38:38pm

re: #13 Sharmuta

If 0bama really wants to change something over there, make hamas and fatah recognize Israel's right to exist!


Sommmmewheeeere, over the rainbow, way up high.................

30 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:40:28pm

re: #11 derbal

For some reason I doubt his sincerity.

I wonder what, really, it all means. As Charles points out, no instance of W making such a statement comes to mind, but, then again, having said this, what is the upshot of it? Is there any action expected to result from this recommendation against "unhelpful" pronouncements? Does he really think he can gently encourage a reduction in what is a stock-in-trade at far too many mosques there? Can Barry's words alone really begin to undo what has been a concerted cultural effort going back at least to the 70's?

Or, is this just a cheap way of buying some credibility with the Israelis and their supporters, costing him nothing, and gaining no one anything? I'm cynical enough to think this may be all we see here.

31 lawhawk  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:40:46pm

re: #18 Charles

Yes, he did. He called on the Palestinians to fulfill their obligations under Oslo, and this is one of them.

The call for elections included this.

Today, Palestinian authorities are encouraging, not opposing, terrorism. This is unacceptable. And the United States will not support the establishment of a Palestinian state until its leaders engage in a sustained fight against the terrorists and dismantle their infrastructure. This will require an externally supervised effort to rebuild and reform the Palestinian security services. The security system must have clear lines of authority and accountability and a unified chain of command.
32 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:41:14pm

re: #27 lawhawk

"...continue to make progress"? Instead of daily exhortations to kill the Jews, do it weekly on Friday? That's the progress that we're going to see - as a best case scenario.

In other words, all Obama is doing here is demanding that Abbas hold up his end of the bargain under Oslo, which the Palestinians have repeatedly rejected. This isn't new ground, but restating the old formula, which has clearly worked out splendidly.

I'll bet that if you asked the Israelis if they would like those six days of peace each week, they would be pretty happy. Think of it, no bombings, riots, missile attacks Saturday through Thursday.

33 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:43:31pm

re: #24 Shug

I say praise the POTUS when he does a good job

so that way, when you bust his balls when he screws up, you have credibility

Can we go with a thumbs up instead of "praise" I have a tough time praising anyone who isn't on par with Mother Theresa.

34 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:43:49pm

I hope nobody thinks I'm looking at this as some kind of harbinger of peace in the Middle East. It's not.

But it is hopeful to see at least this much recognition of an extremely serious problem -- one that's usually completely ignored by both Democratic and Republican politicians.

35 IslandLibertarian  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:44:20pm

"We, "The Ones we've been waiting for", have finally heard the "words" we've been waiting for."

"0" speaks........and?...?...

36 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:44:40pm

re: #33 Eowyn2

I have a tough time praising anyone who isn't on par with Mother Theresa.

Damn! Those are some high standards.

37 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:44:51pm

re: #31 lawhawk

Yes, he did. He called on the Palestinians to fulfill their obligations under Oslo, and this is one of them.

The call for elections included this.

That statement was about terrorism, though -- Obama specifically called out the schools and mosques.

38 quickjustice  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:45:06pm

Good for Obama. Now let's see if there's anything more than rhetoric.

39 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:45:15pm

I hope he pushes the Palestinians at least as hard on this as he's pushing the Israelis to stop building "settlements".

40 Wild Knight  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:45:34pm

re: #37 Charles

Charles, anything new on North Korea? There beginning to make me really nervous.

41 danrudy  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:45:41pm

re: #18 Charles

Did George W. Bush mention the Palestinian hate culture in any of his speeches? I don't recall him ever doing so.

from [Link: www.jcpa.org...]

To its credit, on the declarative level the Bush administration has repeatedly spoken up about the problem of incitement. For example, in January 2005, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on Arab states to boost the peace process by ending anti-Israel incitement.7 In March 2007, she revealed that the U.S. was discussing with the Palestinians an end to incitement against Israel in schools, and to print maps that included the State of Israel.8

I recall Bush sayig this publicly but it was such a "ho-hum" moment that no one was really suprised by it. It wasn't the shocker that it is when it comes from Obama goven his friends.

42 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:46:16pm

OT/Update: Gawker updated its article on the Mancow waterboarding....
Mancow's 'Waterboarding' Was Completely Fake

....we called Klay South, the marine Mancow found at the last minute to perform the waterboarding. He says he had no idea what he was doing! To wit:

I know nothing about waterboarding. I had never done it before, I have no formal training in it, and I've never had it done to me. The only thing I knew was what I saw on the internet. I went to waterboarding.org and looked it up. I just did what I was told—poured the water on his face and that was it. I'm probably the last person they should have had do it. I didn't know what I was doing.

43 calcajun  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:46:25pm

Sounds rather tepid to me. He could have used much stronger language and remained diplomatic.

44 davesax  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:46:43pm

re: #34 Charles

Charles, good point.

I have trouble crediting any politician for stating the obvious problem of anti-Israel incitement, but I suppose it's a positive step.

It only took 60 years.

45 jamgarr  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:46:53pm

Hello Lizardia!

I'm posting today from The People's Republic of Berkeley

46 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:46:55pm

re: #36 Guanxi88

Damn! Those are some high standards.


and my grandkids:)

47 tedzilla99  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:47:31pm

How about calling for a reduction in rockets fired at schools and daycare centers?

He wants Israel to stop living - building settlements - and just wants Palestinians to stop talking. Hmm.

48 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:48:14pm

re: #46 Eowyn2

and my grandkids:)

They're probably almost as perfect as my own children.

49 KenJen  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:48:29pm

re: #34 Charles

No one thinks that. My problem with Obama's statement is that he says "continue to make progress", when it dosen't seem any has been made.

50 danrudy  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:48:30pm

re: #37 Charles

That statement was about terrorism, though -- Obama specifically called out the schools and mosques.


References to Israeli and Palestinian Incitement in International Documents

Since the signing of the Gaza-Jericho Agreement of 1994, as part of the Oslo process, the topic of incitement has assumed a central position in the formal relations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (Oslo II) of September 1995 contains mutual commitments to take legal measures to prevent incitement. In the Wye River Memorandum of October 1998 it was agreed that a joint US-Israeli-Palestinian committee would be established to monitor cases of possible incitement and make recommendations on how to prevent incitement. In the Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum of September 1999 between Barak and Arafat, there is a paragraph that calls for preventing incitement through cooperation between the two sides. The topic also appears in the Road Map put forth by President Bush in April 2003, in the Sharm el-Sheikh Fact-Finding Committee Report (the Mitchell Report) of April 2001 and in UN Security Council Resolution 1397 of March 2002. In Israel's remarks on the Road Map, which were forwarded to the United States in May 2003, Israel demands that the Palestinians cease incitement, but also insists that this demand not be mutual and that the Road Map not state that Israel cease violence and incitement against the Palestinians.



Still looking for a speech but clearly he put this requirement on paper rather then merley talking about it.
Not much tome to look but if I find an actual quote I will post it

51 davinvalkri  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:48:34pm

re: #37 Charles

That statement was about terrorism, though -- Obama specifically called out the schools and mosques.

That's where the terrorism starts. This is good, but the Palestinians are going to need this drumbeaten into them.

52 calcajun  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:48:59pm

re: #40 Wild Knight

Charles, anything new on North Korea? There beginning to make me really nervous.

The Hermit (crab) Kingdom will NOT do anything without China's backing...and China will not allow North Korea to upset the Asian economic apple cart by attacking South Korea. All the sabre rattling is a form of diplomatic negotiation--as well as an outward sign that Kim still has control. This too will pass.

53 Honorary Yooper  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:50:05pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take the Gawker article with a grain of salt until I see something more concrete from a reputable news source. Not that I would doubt Mancow to fake such a thing as waterboarding for publicity, but Gawker isn't exactly reputable either.

54 tedzilla99  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:50:31pm

Here's a speech by W that fits the bill: http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/gwbushtwostatesolution.htm

55 danrudy  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:51:23pm

re: #37 Charles

That statement was about terrorism, though -- Obama specifically called out the schools and mosques.

Here is text from UN speech Bush gave where he mentions incitement.

[Link: web.israelinsider.com...]

Bush said. "We're working toward a day when two states - Israel and Palestine - live peacefully together in secure and recognized borders as called for by Security Council resolutions. We will do all we can to bring the parties back to the negotiating table, but peace will only come when all have sworn off, forever, incitement, violence and terror."
56 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:51:37pm

re: #20 Shug

Like Avanti, Obama is making a Karma comeback

but I'm still keeping an eye on him

As will any patriotic American. The POTUS will make mistakes, as well as doing the right thing on occasion, but we can judge fairly either way.

57 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:52:09pm

re: #48 Guanxi88

They're probably almost as perfect as my own children.

Probably. Every moment is a sterling moment. My newest (5/24/09) 9 lbs 6 oz. BOUNCING baby boy. my poor daughter.

58 calcajun  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:52:15pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Still does not change the fact that it is a form of torture.

59 VegasRick  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:52:18pm

re: #53 Honorary Yooper

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take the Gawker article with a grain of salt until I see something more concrete from a reputable news source. Not that I would doubt Mancow to fake such a thing as waterboarding for publicity, but Gawker isn't exactly reputable either.

Did you see the video? He lasted about 5 seconds, it was a joke.

60 P. Aaron  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:53:08pm

Has Colin Powell ever stated a position on Palistinian Hate Speech?

Or is he moderate about it?

61 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:54:16pm

re: #57 Eowyn2

Probably. Every moment is a sterling moment. My newest (5/24/09) 9 lbs 6 oz. BOUNCING baby boy. my poor daughter.

You probably feel about other people's grandkids the way I do about other folks' children. We both know that, when they cast their eyes upon our own perfect specimens of beauty, intelligence, and moral and cultural refinement, they must inevitably look with some regret upon their own spawn and grand-spawn. They can't help feeling a little tinge of envy, and I don't blame them.

62 shaker  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:54:35pm

Obama says "reduce" the hate speech that is "sometimes" used. He just wants a reduction? What, from 100% to 90%. He is telling the Jews to absolutely stop construction for new families in Judea and Samaria, but he only wants the Arabs to "reduce" the hate speech.

Also the use of hate speech is not "sometimes" in schools, mosques and TV. It is all the time.

Wake up Mr. President!

63 tedzilla99  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:54:48pm

re: #60 P. Aaron

Has Colin Powell ever stated a position on Palistinian Hate Speech?

Or is he moderate about it?

So funny that I just found this on the Carter Center website:

Secretary of State Colin Powell stated what is still the current American position concerning Middle East peace:

"The Palestinian leadership must end violence, stop incitement, and prepare their people for the hard compromises ahead. All in the Arab world must make unmistakably clear, through their own actions, their acceptance of Israel and their commitment to a negotiated settlement. Israel must be willing to end its occupation, consistent with the principles embodied in Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, and accept a viable Palestinian state in which Palestinians can determine their own future on their own land and live in dignity and security."

Is that his personal opinion? Don't know.

64 KenJen  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:54:49pm

re: #60 P. Aaron

Has Colin Powell ever stated a position on Palistinian Hate Speech?

Or is he moderate about it?

Are you in love with Colin Powell?

65 danrudy  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:56:10pm

re: #18 Charles

Did George W. Bush mention the Palestinian hate culture in any of his speeches? I don't recall him ever doing so.

And finally ..asked and answered.

[Link: www.insomnomaniac.com...]

President Bush stated that the Palestinian Arabs must
"end incitement to violence in official media and publicly denounce
homicide bombings."


On June 24, 2002, President Bush set forth the conditions that the
Palestinian Arabs must fulfill in order to merit U.S. support for the
creation of a Palestinian Arab state. Among the major obligations are that
the Palestinian Arabs must "dismantle the terrorist infrastructure," "end
incitement," "elect new leaders not compromised by terror," and
unequivocally embrace democracy and free market economics.
66 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:56:26pm

re: #59 VegasRick

Did you see the video? He lasted about 5 seconds, it was a joke.


He did seem to fold pretty quick didn't he? Since I have never been water boarded, I am really in no position to judge, but it did seem quick.

67 jvic  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:56:30pm

I've always said I'll give Obama due credit when he does the right thing.

duecredit

A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single step. So does a journey of one step.

We'll see.

68 Honorary Yooper  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:56:33pm

re: #59 VegasRick

Did you see the video? He lasted about 5 seconds, it was a joke.

Oh, of that I have no doubt, I just find Gawker to be a tabloid. I heard about it and read about it from outher sources as well, much more reputable sources. We should not be using non-reputable sources such as Gawker when discussing something, IMHO.

Mancow's waterboarding was a stunt, he is a wuss, and it may have been faked, but I'm not going to take Gawker's word for it without a reputable news source to back it up.

69 LGoPs  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:57:46pm
Following a meeting Thursday with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, President Obama told the Palestinian leader that “ ... It was very important to continue to make progress in reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square, because all those things are impediments to peace.”

How 'bout eliminating the incitement and anti-Israeli sentiments..........

70 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:57:57pm

re: #51 davinvalkri

That's where the terrorism starts. This is good, but the Palestinians are going to need this drumbeaten into them.

I agree, but the journey of a thousand miles starts with one step. This needs to be followed up with more of the same and some action too.

71 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:58:45pm

re: #58 calcajun

Still does not change the fact that it is a form of torture.

Although I don't label it torture I have no problem with other people doing so. However, it's clear that He went into this stunt with the intention of creating a predetermined outcome. If I had to guess I'd say he would have done a real waterboarding but the original guy backed out. He decided to go with a fake one to create a dramatic scenario where he has a change of heart about waterboarding. It was a fake incident.

72 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:58:57pm

re: #60 P. Aaron

Has Colin Powell ever stated a position on Palistinian Hate Speech?

Or is he moderate about it?

It's probably not a good idea to keep making these kinds of snotty comments, if you want to keep your LGF account.

73 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:59:38pm

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut!

74 KenJen  Fri, May 29, 2009 1:59:57pm

re: #70 Sharmuta

I agree, but the journey of a thousand miles starts with one step. This needs to be followed up with more of the same and some action too.

How about--"KNOCK THE SH*T OFF OR WE WILL CUT OFF YOUR AID"

75 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:00:33pm

Well done, Mr. President.

76 Sharmuta  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:00:34pm

re: #74 KenJen

How about--"KNOCK THE SH*T OFF OR WE WILL CUT OFF YOUR AID"

That's about what I'm thinking.

77 davinvalkri  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:01:29pm

re: #74 KenJen

How about--"KNOCK THE SH*T OFF OR WE WILL CUT OFF YOUR AID"

Sounds good. Messy, but good.

78 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:01:55pm

re: #51 davinvalkri

That's where the terrorism starts. This is good, but the Palestinians are going to need this drumbeaten into them.

Yes, it needs to go a lot further. If the intention was to redress the balance between browbeating Israel over settlements and explicit and renewed acceptance of the "two state solution", while at the same time requiring no change in the behaviour of the Palestinians, it has a long way to go to achieve that goal. Of course, I have no idea what's going on in Obama's mind, but I would be very surprised if he followed up on this with something more concrete and which continued to ameliorate Israel's position.

79 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:02:04pm

re: #74 KenJen

How about--"KNOCK THE SH*T OFF OR WE WILL CUT OFF YOUR AID"

hows about first cut off the aid, and then see if they get it?

80 Bloodnok  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:02:25pm

re: #75 Bloodnok

Well done, Mr. President.

See, former President Bush? Was that so hard?

81 kynna  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:03:01pm

I've got to give him a nod at this one. That he called out the hate speech in schools is important. That's the thing so many people don't even realize goes on.

Could it be stronger? Sure. But I think it's important that no one in the world would ever expect Obama to offer this criticism adds just a little bit of heft.

More please.

82 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:04:11pm

I found the website of Kamal Saleem, the reformed PLO terrorist, who converted to Christianity, friend of Walid Shoebat. He has a posted interview regarding his new book, "Blood of Lambs." He believes that these Islamists, his former colleagues, cannot be negotiated with because they believe to their very core that they are doing Allah's will and they are very, very sincere. He also discusses his own conversion to Christianity.

Interview with Kamal Sallem.

83 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:04:20pm

re: #78 John Neverbend

Of course, I have no idea what's going on in Obama's mind, but I would be very surprised if he followed up on this with something more concrete and which continued to ameliorate Israel's position.

I'd be surprised if that happens, too. But I do think it's at least slightly encouraging that Obama is willing to specifically call out Palestinian schools and mosques as centers of incitement.

84 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:05:32pm

re: #83 Charles

I'd be surprised if that happens, too. But I do think it's at least slightly encouraging that Obama is willing to specifically call out Palestinian schools and mosques as centers of incitement.

Yes, that is indeed a step forward, and I hope my pessimism turns out to have been misplaced.

85 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:07:24pm

Ahamadinejad wants to debate Obama

If returned to office, Ahmadinejad says he wants to meet Obama during the U.N. General Assembly in September to debate "world issues and the way toward peace."


One way toward peace would be for Ahamadinejad to accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and Jews' right to exist, but I'm not holding my breath.

86 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:07:49pm

re: #69 LGoPs

How 'bout eliminating the incitement and anti-Israeli sentiments..........

Remember in his Notre Dame speech, he talked about the doctor who chastised him for have incendiary words on his website relative to abortion? Obama agreed with the doctor that he should have more "fair-minded" words, and he agreed to change the WORDING. But the point is Obama's POSITION didn't change one bit.

87 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:08:06pm
Following a meeting Thursday with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, President Obama told the Palestinian leader that “ ... It was very important to continue to make progress in reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square, because all those things are impediments to peace.”

Sometimes?
Nonsense.
It's an everyday occurrence.
This is meaningless.
The Palestinians will get a State regardless what they do.

No credit for Obama in my book for this meaningless statement.

88 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:08:36pm

Obama has a background of Palistinian support, but now he is the President. His job can have a very sobering effect.
Time will tell if he has had some kind of Epiphany.

89 KenJen  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:09:03pm

Later guys.

90 Born Again Republican  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:09:26pm

The Palestinian knows it's not peaceful! It more rhetoric on Obama's part as far as I'm concerned.

91 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:09:47pm

re: #88 opnion

Obama has a background of Palistinian support, but now he is the President. His job can have a very sobering effect.
Time will tell if he has had some kind of Epiphany.

Do you think Obama has empathy for the Jews? I do. He understands how they feel quite accurately - Obama just doesn't have sympathy for their feelings or positions.

92 The Optimist  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:10:58pm

Give Obama credit for recognizing the hatred spewed by Palestinians and how it leads to wars.

Never mind that the Palestinians don't give a camel flea's butt about changing anything. They feel duty bound to bind their children and granchildren and great grandchildren into infinity into correcting all fantasized slights against their honor.

93 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:11:42pm

re: #91 DistantThunder

Do you think Obama has empathy for the Jews? I do. He understands how they feel quite accurately - Obama just doesn't have sympathy for their feelings or positions.

I in no way see Obama as pro Israel or pro Jewish for that matter.
I hope for the office to moderate him, we'll see.

94 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:12:09pm

re: #87 MJ

Sometimes?
Nonsense.
It's an everyday occurrence.
This is meaningless.
The Palestinians will get a State regardless what they do.

Perhaps "sometimes" in this context means "as opposed to all the other occasions where such sentiments are expressed outside schools, mosques and the public square." I think it's clearly a rather tepid statement, but it may carry more weight, coming as it does from the President of the United States.

95 JammieWearingFool  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:12:36pm

Maybe Obama can start criticizing Democrat hate speech while he's at it.

96 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:12:46pm

The Mother of All Myths
MICHAEL J. TOTTEN - 05.29.2009 - 10:25 AM

Dennis Ross, Special Advisor on Iran for the Secretary of State, has a book coming out next month that inconveniently takes issue with the Obama Administration’s thesis of “linkage.” “Of all the policy myths that have kept us from making real progress in the Middle East,” Ross writes in a chapter titled “The Mother of All Myths,” “one stands out for its impact and longevity: the idea that if only the Palestinian conflict were solved, all other Middle East conflicts would melt away.” Meanwhile, the Obama Administration – which Ross currently works for – is pressuring Israel in part because the president hopes progress toward the resolution of the Palestinian conflict will help derail Iran’s drive for the development of nuclear weapons...


[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]

97 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:13:34pm

re: #85 Kosh's Shadow

Ahamadinejad wants to debate Obama


One way toward peace would be for Ahamadinejad to accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and Jews' right to exist, but I'm not holding my breath.

Obama should accept (just make sure his teleprompter is full loaded first, though).

98 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:14:11pm

re: #57 Eowyn2

Probably. Every moment is a sterling moment. My newest (5/24/09) 9 lbs 6 oz. BOUNCING baby boy. my poor daughter.

There is nothing more precious than a baby! Congrats.

99 abolitionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:15:16pm
“ ... It was very important to continue to make progress in reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square, because all those things are impediments to peace.”

There's abundant anti-Israel sentiment and incitement of hatred in school textbooks and teaching materials, in children's TV programming, and in speeches, videos and literature in mosques, all of which could be easily reduced eliminated. That which is inscribed in the koran and hadiths is more problematic.

100 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:15:47pm

This statement seems like pretty small beer to me. Or thin soup. Yes, I'm hungry and thirsty. But anyway. The Obama Administration has been relentless in placing all the burden on Israel in terms of The Search For Peace. A one-sentence nod to "incitement" on the Palestinian side doesn't impress me much. Taken alone, it makes it sound like this is merely some sort of "technical foul" on the Palis side, rather than (yet another piece of) evidence of the utterly rejectionist, irredentist Palestinian political culture. If Obama follows up with a more realistic approach, good. If not, this will merely be a footnote in an otherwise wrong-headed policy.

101 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:16:58pm

re: #86 DistantThunder

Remember in his Notre Dame speech, he talked about the doctor who chastised him for have incendiary words on his website relative to abortion? Obama agreed with the doctor that he should have more "fair-minded" words, and he agreed to change the WORDING. But the point is Obama's POSITION didn't change one bit.

"Just words.....just words.....just words......(someone please move the prompter up for me, will ya?)"

102 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:17:41pm

re: #94 John Neverbend

Perhaps "sometimes" in this context means "as opposed to all the other occasions where such sentiments are expressed outside schools, mosques and the public square." I think it's clearly a rather tepid statement, but it may carry more weight, coming as it does from the President of the United States.

It carries no weight, no weight whatsoever since there are no penalties attached for their continual incitement to murder Jews.

Want to see the daily incitement...and not the "sometimes" incitement that Obama is trying to bury?
Check
memri.org
Start here:
[Link: www.memri.org...]

103 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:18:10pm

re: #92 Venezuela lover

Give Obama credit for recognizing the hatred spewed by Palestinians and how it leads to wars.

Never mind that the Palestinians don't give a camel flea's butt about changing anything. They feel duty bound to bind their children and granchildren and great grandchildren into infinity into correcting all fantasized slights against their honor.

I read an article in a Philly paper that had an interview with Obama saying 'If I can just talk to someone, 95% of the time, I can get them to change their position.' I think this is his big effort to say, look, stand up straight, stop shooting your mouths off, look presentable, learn to make a better impression.' - The Re-education of Obama is going to be a steep learning curve.

104 KingKenrod  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:18:15pm

I think Obama is genuinely concerned about Palestinian culture. But I think this statement is more about getting the Palestinians to knock off the bad PR so Obama can move forward with getting more concessions from Israel.

105 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:18:44pm

Me thinks Pres. Obama is discovering that the real world is not as nice or forgiving as the fantasyland that is a campaign. He now has the wheel and if we hit an iceberg, he will be the one going down with the ship (with most of us too, unfortunately)

106 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:19:02pm

re: #104 KingKenrod

I think Obama is genuinely concerned about Palestinian culture. But I think this statement is more about getting the Palestinians to knock off the bad PR so Obama can move forward with getting more concessions from Israel.

yah think?

107 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:19:04pm

Obama is uniquely positioned to make these statements to the Islamic world and I for one applaud him for calling them on their stupidities.

I hope he says more.

108 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:19:14pm

re: #104 KingKenrod

I think Obama is genuinely concerned about Palestinian culture. But I think this statement is more about getting the Palestinians to knock off the bad PR so Obama can move forward with getting more concessions from Israel.

See my #103.

109 suntory_boss  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:19:19pm

only wants to "reduce" the teaching of hatred and incitement but not eliminate it?

110 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:19:44pm

re: #104 KingKenrod

I think Obama is genuinely concerned about Palestinian culture. But I think this statement is more about getting the Palestinians to knock off the bad PR so Obama can move forward with getting more concessions from Israel.

Maybe this is a case where being a community organizer is a benefit.

111 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:19:57pm

re: #107 Ojoe

Obama is uniquely positioned to make these statements to the Islamic world and I for one applaud him for calling them on their stupidities.

I hope he says more.

Maybe something to that. Nixon. China. Although, maybe that's a bad example, based on what we did to the ROC to attain this great breakthrough.

112 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:20:13pm

re: #109 suntory_boss

only wants to "reduce" the teaching of hatred and incitement but not eliminate it?

Rome wasn't built in a day.

/neither was Syracuse

113 DistantThunder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:20:31pm

re: #107 Ojoe

Obama is uniquely positioned to make these statements to the Islamic world and I for one applaud him for calling them on their stupidities.

I hope he says more.

But if they can't be incendiary in the mosques, they can't hold the movement together and they won't be doing Allalh's will, they believe, unless they believe, that to ratchet the rhetoric down is a temporary strategy to achieve a state.

114 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:21:17pm

re: #111 Guanxi88

Maybe something to that. Nixon. China. Although, maybe that's a bad example, based on what we did to the ROC to attain this great breakthrough.

I think normalizing relationships with Red China has benefitted the ROC with continued existence.

115 Drider  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:21:33pm

Could the Pals at least take their Barney the dinosaur type rabbit off the airwaves.When that rabbit starts ranting on about wiping out the Jews it kinda freaks me out.

Hey, on the plus side for the Pals, rumor has it that Obama's administration is blocking the sale of longbow helicopters to Israel.My guess is that Obama feels the 2 billion dollar humanitarian cash(AK47's/RPG's) that he is funneling to Hamas through the UN would kinda cancel each other out so he picked his side.

116 Catttt  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:21:34pm

OT

This cracks me up: Amazon's gold box deal of the day:

Deal of the Day
Make Everything Taste Like Bacon for 20% Off - Today Only

117 suntory_boss  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:21:44pm

re: #112 OldLineTexan

Rome wasn't built in a day.

/neither was Syracuse

Something tells me that if there were a european culture that was very hateful and taught the hatred of other races, there wouldn't be "patience" with trying to reform them.

118 voirdire  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:21:52pm

Starting now might have an effect in a generation or two.

119 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:21:57pm

re: #96 MJ

The Mother of All Myths
MICHAEL J. TOTTEN - 05.29.2009 - 10:25 AM


[Link: www.commentarymagazine.com...]


Thanks for the reminder. Yeah, there's THAT tiny problem, too... Obama's apparent belief that the Iranian nuke program will somehow dry up and blow away once "the Palestinians have a state" (um, don't they already?). In the face of that towering ediface of stupidity, I can't get too excited about this one, tiny adornment of relative sanity.

120 calcajun  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:22:08pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

I agree with the assessment about the stunt. But, I my mind any time an interrogation takes on a physical component, then it is a form of coercion and thus torture. The only question at that point is the extent/extreme.

There is a vast difference between what the CIA/US Armed Forces' water boarding technique (on paper) and that which was practiced by the Japanese and Germans and other powers. There is a difference between using force to coerce someone to divulge information and brutalizing them.

121 infopimp  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:22:30pm

OT: Charles, any chance you can update the Mancow story? There is some... uh.. new info:

[Link: gawker.com...]

122 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:22:51pm

re: #110 OldLineTexan

Maybe this is a case where being a community organizer is a benefit.

somehow I don't get a warm fuzzy thinking that O is organizing the Palestinians.

123 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:23:18pm

ediface = edifice

gah

124 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:23:24pm

re: #117 suntory_boss

Something tells me that if there were a european culture that was very hateful and taught the hatred of other races, there wouldn't be "patience" with trying to reform them.

OK, fine. Somebody was first on the beach on D-Day. You have to start somewhere.

125 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:23:26pm

re: #113 DistantThunder

It is a vortex we are seeing, this hate, and it spins, and the newborn grow into it, and if the spinning hate is lessened, it won't grab more people.

At some point of deceleration the gyre will fall apart.

126 suntory_boss  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:23:31pm

What happens when there's a Palestinian state and they start shooting down israeli jetliners? What happens when a fully independent state launches rockets at another one? Will Israel be the only nation on earth not allowed to defend itself?

127 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:24:09pm

re: #1 Sharmuta

It will make no difference. They will continue to hate Jews.

Ah, but it does make a difference. Yes, the Jew hatred will continue. The difference is not in their hearts, in their culture, but among our own people. It's not a huge deal, but the fact that Obama's words went this way and not more of what we have come to expect adds some heft to the support we would like to see. It's a start, and "way leads on to way," (as Robert Frost tells us) and sometimes it does make all the difference.

128 JustABill  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:24:18pm

re: #107 Ojoe

Obama is uniquely positioned to make these statements to the Islamic world and I for one applaud him for calling them on their stupidities.

I hope he says more.

I am afraid I must beg to differ. On the off chance Obama does anything to really tick off the Muslim world he will be declared an Apostate...

They'll find evidence that he was in a Madrasa and prayed there as a child, and now he claims to be Christian.

129 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:24:23pm

re: #123 Occasional Reader

ediface = edifice

gah

Eddie Face

130 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:24:44pm

re: #125 Ojoe

It is a vortex we are seeing, this hate, and it spins, and the newborn grow into it, and if the spinning hate is lessened, it won't grab more people.

At some point of deceleration the gyre will fall apart.

I thought it was the things that fell apart. The gyre was with the falcon. /Yeats

131 suntory_boss  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:25:12pm

re: #124 OldLineTexan

OK, fine. Somebody was first on the beach on D-Day. You have to start somewhere.

Jimmy the Greek was fired for making a truthful and non racist statement. Palestinians teach their children, with taxpayer aid funded brainwashing. Why are we more tolerant of certain kinds of hatreds?

132 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:25:34pm

re: #114 OldLineTexan

I think normalizing relationships with Red China has benefitted the ROC with continued existence.

Ahh, but they viewed it as an absolute betrayal - handing over representation of China at the UN to the Reds.

133 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:25:44pm

re: #130 Guanxi88

Better the gyre falls apart.

134 voirdire  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:26:14pm

re: #130 Guanxi88

The jabborwocky ate the gyre.

135 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:26:29pm

re: #133 Ojoe

Better the gyre falls apart.

Hey, I'm not disputing; hell, they could have the falcon, for all I care; so long as we don't get the "mere anarchy" stuff, I'm relatively happy.

136 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:26:30pm

re: #131 suntory_boss

Jimmy the Greek was fired for making a truthful and non racist statement. Palestinians teach their children, with taxpayer aid funded brainwashing. Why are we more tolerant of certain kinds of hatreds?

Jimmy had an employer with the right to fire him.

If the Palis work for you, go ahead.

I think I get your meaning, but the analogy does not work.

137 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:26:58pm

re: #135 Guanxi88

Hey, I'm not disputing; hell, they could have the falcon, for all I care; so long as we don't get the "mere anarchy" stuff, I'm relatively happy.

Is falcon as delicious as Gazan honco rooster?

138 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:27:05pm

re: #134 voirdire

The jabborwocky ate the gyre.

I am the walrus/

139 onepistoffyid  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:27:13pm

re: #88 opnion

Obama has a background of Palistinian support, but now he is the President. His job can have a very sobering effect.
Time will tell if he has had some kind of Epiphany.

He hasn't had an epiphany, he is just responding in a token manner as tepidly as he can to the continual prodding that he is almost certainly getting behind the scenes from Israel supporters in his cabinet and the Senate. I am sure it is not heartfelt.

140 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:27:27pm

re: #137 OldLineTexan

Is falcon as delicious as Gazan honco rooster?

No, but then, nothing ever could be!

141 Desert Dog  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:27:29pm

re: #137 OldLineTexan

Is falcon as delicious as Gazan honco rooster?

tastes like chicken, I'd bet

142 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:27:40pm

re: #135 Guanxi88

Nor that we get the blood-dimmed tide.

143 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:28:07pm

re: #142 Ojoe

Nor that we get the blood-dimmed tide.

I was hoping we wouldn't get that far along.

144 6PointsOut  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:28:23pm

Shalom!

Sorry, this in no way whatsoever constitutes ANYTHING other than a repetition of a formula.

I am surprised that this sort of shallow, throwaway boilerplate would be interpreted by you as an "acknowledgment" of anything other than the need to say what is politically useful at the instant.

Obama is about as pro-Arab as they come, accepting every calumny and accusation against Israel, and then sending this same tired crop of anti-Israel schnooks TELLING Israel to put more Israeli lives on the line in order to sustain the horrific Western "peace process" theater. Fortunately, we now have a government that knows better, and if Bibi can;t stand up to your perfidious leader, we will elect someone who will.

Obama should not bother even saying things like this; even more, people should know better than to extend their credulity to such a shallow, false man.

May there be a minimum of additional suffering created by this corrupt piece of Chicago detritus and his leftarded minions.

"Criticizes Palestinian hate speech". Sure, whatever. I have this great beachfront property in Iowa. . .

145 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:28:41pm

re: #142 Ojoe

Nor that we get the blood-dimmed tide.

Never cared as much for Yeats as for Eliot. Personal preference of course; both are damned fine poets.

146 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:29:07pm

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)
THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

147 kynna  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:29:17pm

I don't think Obama's situation is quite the same as Bush's. GWB was trying to win the war and constantly being accused of racism against Muslims. Obama comes in without that baggage.

Which is why he's got more freedom to be candid and pleasantly surprising that he was.

148 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:29:35pm

BBL

149 Guanxi88  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:29:59pm

re: #146 Ojoe

Saved me the trouble. Funny thing, isn't it, about poetry? As evocative as it is, it is also so easily evoked in other contexts.

150 onepistoffyid  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:30:30pm

re: #144 6PointsOut

Shalom!

Sorry, this in no way whatsoever constitutes ANYTHING other than a repetition of a formula.

I am surprised that this sort of shallow, throwaway boilerplate would be interpreted by you as an "acknowledgment" of anything other than the need to say what is politically useful at the instant.

Obama is about as pro-Arab as they come, accepting every calumny and accusation against Israel, and then sending this same tired crop of anti-Israel schnooks TELLING Israel to put more Israeli lives on the line in order to sustain the horrific Western "peace process" theater. Fortunately, we now have a government that knows better, and if Bibi can;t stand up to your perfidious leader, we will elect someone who will.

Obama should not bother even saying things like this; even more, people should know better than to extend their credulity to such a shallow, false man.

May there be a minimum of additional suffering created by this corrupt piece of Chicago detritus and his leftarded minions.

"Criticizes Palestinian hate speech". Sure, whatever. I have this great beachfront property in Iowa. . .

Here is the acid test; can Jews live in the proposed Palestinian state? Of course not. End of discussion. That says it all.

If Jews were allowed to be jewish residents of the future state, the settlements would be no big deal, would they? Oh but it is ok to have 1.5 millions Arabs living in Israel?

151 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:32:04pm

re: #97 Desert Dog

Obama should accept (just make sure his teleprompter is full loaded first, though).

Saw a funny video of BHO making fun of himself today. He was getting ready to make a speech and said he wanted to talk "off the cuff", then he paused, stepped back and waited for the teleprompters to rise into view from the floor.

152 Silvergirl  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:32:15pm

re: #116 Catttt

OT

This cracks me up: Amazon's gold box deal of the day:

Deal of the Day
Make Everything Taste Like Bacon for 20% Off - Today Only

I see they're also offering bacon flavored lip balm. Is this what's used for putting lipstick on a pig?

153 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:33:36pm

re: #152 Silvergirl

I see they're also offering bacon flavored lip balm. Is this what's used for putting lipstick on a pig?

also known as lard.

154 Logician  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:33:55pm

re: #18 Charles

Did George W. Bush mention the Palestinian hate culture in any of his speeches? I don't recall him ever doing so.

Perhaps this isn't quite the same, but President Bush's Road Map required that "At the outset of Phase I",

All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel.

On the other hand, his Administration never followed up on the Road Map.

And on yet another hand, Obama's heavily qualified language "make progress in reducing" and "sentiments sometimes expressed" makes what he said very misleading and almost meaningless.

But it is indeed

hopeful to see at least this much recognition [by Obama] of an extremely serious problem -- one that's usually completely ignored by both Democratic and Republican politicians.

155 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:36:16pm

Obama used the right words.
Now he needs to use the right actions.

156 suntory_boss  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:37:03pm

re: #150 onepistoffyid

Here is the acid test; can Jews live in the proposed Palestinian state? Of course not. End of discussion. That says it all.

If Jews were allowed to be jewish residents of the future state, the settlements would be no big deal, would they? Oh but it is ok to have 1.5 millions Arabs living in Israel?


How dare you point out double standards! It's perfect fine for the Palestinian nation to be judenrein, but Israel is an apartheid racist state!

157 LGoPs  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:37:57pm

re: #155 DEZes

Obama used the right words.
Now he needs to use the right actions.

Words are easy. Actions are hard. I remain skeptical.

158 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:38:05pm

Just curious: Did prez Bush ever say anything that came this close to actually calling the Pals on their hate speech?

Anyone?

159 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:38:23pm

Sorry I'm not buying this horse.

As Cheney said, triangulation is a political maneuver not a strategy.

On the other hand, I'll eat the entire horse if there is even one jot of a "change" in the constant incitement that comes from official Pali (school books and teachers) media or imams etc.

160 6PointsOut  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:39:05pm

@POYid -

Agree 100%. If ever history there has been an archetypical example of why we must know people for what they DO and not what they SAY, it is the PLOArabs.

It gets tiresome having to constantly fight the same tired false memes. The Arabs, unlike the meddling Westerners or we hapless and foolish Israelis (shd I say Chelmites? If the kippa fits. . . ), have always been very direct in their behavior, even when they are deceptive in their speech.

Every time Abbas reads a little paragraph off his "we are sad and oppressed how can we kill Jews and destroy Israel if you won't give us your unblinking idiot support and, by the way, LOTS AND LOTS OF CASH" script, there is some American or European schmuck ready to point it out as though it were something other than a naked grab for more cash and a joke at the expense of those known well in the Middle East for supporting those who would kill every Jew they can reach.

It is sad to see America reduced to a condition where her leader cannot tell his allies from his enemies. It is sadder that so many "regular" Americans go right along with it.

161 Catttt  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:40:09pm

re: #158 Cato the Elder

Just curious: Did prez Bush ever say anything that came this close to actually calling the Pals on their hate speech?

Anyone?

That's what I was just pondering. I know just saying what President O said seems minor to those of us who say that all the time or are well aware of it, but I'm going over what past honchos have actually said, and this seems pretty significant as a statement coming from a President.

162 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:40:27pm

Well, I was absolutely appalled by Obama's remark in light of what is actually going on in the so-called educational system under palestinian control and even more so in light of his insistence that Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria must absolutely stop all building, even to accommodate natural growth and the needs of existing residents (in other words, choke these communities to death).

It was very important to continue to make progress in reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square, because all those things are impediments to peace...

First, you can't continue progress that has never been made, and there has been NO reduction in the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments in schools and mosques. And it isn't "sometimes" expressed. It's taught day in and day out, constantly and without cessation.

The Oslo accords and the Road Map require an absolute stop to this incitement because it's not just an "impediment" to peace. It eliminates the possibility of peace. But Jews continuing to build homes and schools and hospitals and infrastructure is only an impediment to peace in the minds of those who believe Jews should be pushed into the sea.

The double standard here is simply mindboggling.

163 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:41:09pm

re: #158 Cato the Elder

Just curious: Did prez Bush ever say anything that came this close to actually calling the Pals on their hate speech?

Anyone?

See Nos. 31, 55 and 65.

164 LatinGent  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:43:12pm

Guess he did`nt have to tell Netanyhu to do the same thing. The Israelis dont teach their kids to hate while they`re still in diapers.

165 Mikey_Dallas  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:44:39pm

re: #18 Charles

GWB may or may not have mentioned it - I don't recall all of his comments over 8 years off the top of my head - but he certainly didn't give any support of any type to the Palestinians or their cause.

I don't think one can say GWB and BHO are equal in their support for Israel or their lack of same for the Palestinians.

I'm certainly happy to hear such comments from Obama, though.

166 DEZes  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:45:14pm

re: #157 LGoPs

Words are easy. Actions are hard. I remain skeptical.

Exactly.

167 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:48:54pm

re: #144 6PointsOut

...perfidious leader
...a shallow, false man
...corrupt piece of Chicago detritus

"Geez, I love that kinda' talk."
- Ensign Charles Parker

168 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:49:27pm

re: #116 Catttt

OT

This cracks me up: Amazon's gold box deal of the day:

Deal of the Day
Make Everything Taste Like Bacon for 20% Off - Today Only

I saw a news report about the existence of bacon-flavored vodka. Two great tastes that DON'T taste great together.

169 danrudy  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:49:30pm

re: #157 LGoPs

Words are easy. Actions are hard. I remain skeptical.


Just words? Just words?

Methinks someone places to much emphasis on words.

170 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:54:05pm

This is not the Obama I once knew.
/keep it up! I am shocked...shocked I tell ya!

171 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:54:44pm

re: #170 Oh no...Sand People!

This is not the Obama I once knew.
/keep it up! I am shocked...shocked I tell ya!

Hey, stranger!

172 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:55:38pm

re: #171 doppelganglander

Hey, stranger!

YO!

Been a little while.

173 DANEgerus  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:57:03pm

After 23 years in Wright's sewer, a man who published Hamas hate speech, we're supposed to buy into boilerplate served up for the masses from the serial liar to the figurehead?

174 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:57:10pm

re: #128 JustABill

I am afraid I must beg to differ. On the off chance Obama does anything to really tick off the Muslim world he will be declared an Apostate...

They'll find evidence that he was in a Madrasa and prayed there as a child, and now he claims to be Christian.

You know there is already some psychopathic Mullah in one of those 50+ Islamic countries already preaching that. Hopefully the secret service have taken steps to control all situations.

175 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:57:37pm

now about Iran...

176 doppelganglander  Fri, May 29, 2009 2:58:18pm

re: #172 Oh no...Sand People!

YO!

Been a little while.

I'm logged in to FB if you've got a minute to chat.

177 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:00:26pm

Without prejudice:

I find it astounding that so many lizards seem to accept the Obamatron's platitudes as having any meaning whatsoever.

Given the relentless and unilateral pressure the Admin (Pres, Hillary, Rham, the special envoy Mitchell etc.) is mounting on Israel and its government, this is classic soporific.

Where are your normal and astute critical thinking selves today?

Stockholm syndrome perhaps.

178 _RememberTonyC  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:00:37pm

re: #112 OldLineTexan

Rome wasn't built in a day.

/neither was Syracuse

three stooges fan?

179 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:03:37pm

re: #147 kynna

I don't think Obama's situation is quite the same as Bush's. GWB was trying to win the war and constantly being accused of racism against Muslims. Obama comes in without that baggage.

Which is why he's got more freedom to be candid and pleasantly surprising that he was.

That's true , Bush was being referred to as "the Big Crusader"
Even his speeches about Islam being a "peaceful " religion & tamping down anger at Muslims did not help.
Obama had a Muslim father & step father & carries a Muslim name.
He has more latitude to make this criticism & I credit him for doing it.
Now let's see if he follows up.

180 onepistoffyid  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:04:27pm

re: #160 6PointsOut

@POYid -

Agree 100%. If ever history there has been an archetypical example of why we must know people for what they DO and not what they SAY, it is the PLOArabs.

It gets tiresome having to constantly fight the same tired false memes. The Arabs, unlike the meddling Westerners or we hapless and foolish Israelis (shd I say Chelmites? If the kippa fits. . . ), have always been very direct in their behavior, even when they are deceptive in their speech.

Every time Abbas reads a little paragraph off his "we are sad and oppressed how can we kill Jews and destroy Israel if you won't give us your unblinking idiot support and, by the way, LOTS AND LOTS OF CASH" script, there is some American or European schmuck ready to point it out as though it were something other than a naked grab for more cash and a joke at the expense of those known well in the Middle East for supporting those who would kill every Jew they can reach.

It is sad to see America reduced to a condition where her leader cannot tell his allies from his enemies. It is sadder that so many "regular" Americans go right along with it.

I think many folks in the US are currently looking for a scapegoat for the financial crisis, Islamic terrorism, etc. and Jews/Israel fit the bill just fine for a growing number of Americans. This is why so many of our fellow countrymen have no problem with Obama's approach to Israel-we are going back to a long tradition of American Jew Hatred, but this time enshrouded in the platitudes of The Left.

181 avanti  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:05:32pm

I posted this down thread, but the left loves the Satomayor flap.

Openleft.com says:

While President Obama is receiving his first real post-inauguration bump from Sotomayor, and while a disproportionate percentage of that bump is coming from Latinos, Republicans keep calling her stupid, unqualified, mean, racist and privileged. Not only is this a total political disaster for Republicans, but any Republican who actually tries to stop the trainwreck is excoriated by his own party.

The enormity of this political opportunity can hardly be overstated. Republicans are handing us a second Terri Schaivo on a silver platter. We need to keep fueling this discussion.

182 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:06:16pm
How does incitement harm peace?

There is a direct connection between anti-Israeli and antisemitic incitement and terrorism. The incitement and extreme anti-Israel indoctrination that is so pervasive in Palestinian society nurture a culture of hatred that, in turn, leads to terrorism.

...

The Palestinian education system, media, literature, songs, theater and cinema are mobilized for extreme anti-Israel indoctrination, which at times degenerates into blatant antisemitism. The incitement to hatred and violence is pervasive almost everywhere in Palestinian society: in nursery schools and kindergartens, youth movements, schools, universities, mosque sermons, and street demonstrations. This creates a culture of hatred and violence, which in turn provides fertile ground for terrorism and murder.

...

Much more than an "impediment to peace."

There's such a thing as understatement to the point of inanity.

183 onepistoffyid  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:08:28pm

re: #177 Colin Nelson

Without prejudice:

I find it astounding that so many lizards seem to accept the Obamatron's platitudes as having any meaning whatsoever.

Given the relentless and unilateral pressure the Admin (Pres, Hillary, Rham, the special envoy Mitchell etc.) is mounting on Israel and its government, this is classic soporific.

Where are your normal and astute critical thinking selves today?

Stockholm syndrome perhaps.

You are spot on...I think it is Stockholm syndrome. Obama makes finally utters one sentence or two about incitement and it is interpreted as an obama epiphany?

Obama didn't mean a word of it. His actions speak louder than his words.

184 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:08:38pm

re: #181 avanti

I posted this down thread, but the left loves the Satomayor flap.

Openleft.com says:

While President Obama is receiving his first real post-inauguration bump from Sotomayor, and while a disproportionate percentage of that bump is coming from Latinos, Republicans keep calling her stupid, unqualified, mean, racist and privileged. Not only is this a total political disaster for Republicans, but any Republican who actually tries to stop the trainwreck is excoriated by his own party.

The enormity of this political opportunity can hardly be overstated. Republicans are handing us a second Terri Schaivo on a silver platter. We need to keep fueling this discussion.

I'd like to think this is a political disaster for the Republicans, but that sounds a little dramatic to me. And Terri Schaivo should have been a political disaster in my opinion, but wasn't.

185 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:10:16pm

re: #178 _RememberTonyC

three stooges fan?

Yes, for a long time!

186 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:10:34pm

re: #183 onepistoffyid

You are spot on...I think it is Stockholm syndrome. Obama makes finally utters one sentence or two about incitement and it is interpreted as an obama epiphany?

Obama didn't mean a word of it. His actions speak louder than his words.

Stockholm Syndrome? Really? How's that?

187 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:13:19pm

re: #93 opnion

I in no way see Obama as pro Israel or pro Jewish for that matter.
I hope for the office to moderate him, we'll see.

I gotta wonder why Obama recieved so much Jewish support if that were the case. Or am I mistaken?

188 ryannon  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:14:12pm

re: #125 Ojoe

It is a vortex we are seeing, this hate, and it spins, and the newborn grow into it, and if the spinning hate is lessened, it won't grab more people.
At some point of deceleration the gyre will fall apart.

Yep, the center cannot hold.

What's happening at the TowerCam, Joe?

189 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:14:29pm

re: #187 Flyers1974

I gotta wonder why Obama recieved so much Jewish support if that were the case. Or am I mistaken?

flyers1974 ... because many Jews vote for the democrat out of tradition ... blind tradition ... I know all about that and will never do it again ... this past election I broke from blind tradition ...

190 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:14:49pm

re: #180 onepistoffyid

I think many folks in the US are currently looking for a scapegoat for the financial crisis, Islamic terrorism, etc. and Jews/Israel fit the bill just fine for a growing number of Americans. This is why so many of our fellow countrymen have no problem with Obama's approach to Israel-we are going back to a long tradition of American Jew Hatred, but this time enshrouded in the platitudes of The Left.

We are not 'going back' to Jew hatred as you put it. To some it has never left (Jimmy Carter and his ilk,) they just put a smiley face on it and termed it something similar to 'human rights violators.'

The UN has always been full of Jew haters and blamers. There are even Jews who hate Jews. There is probably even a Gay Jews for Palestine group somewhere.

I wonder what the world Jewish population would be if they (you) had not been scapegoat to at least off the worlds tyrants over the past 4000 or so years.

191 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:15:38pm

re: #186 Flyers1974

Stockholm Syndrome? Really? How's that?

I think that might have been a misnomer. Unless the intention was to imply that we're all hostages in some way?

I do agree, though, that we've come to expect so little from this president in the way of recognition of the true threats facing both our nation and our allies that the slightest hint of consciousness makes us a bit giddy.

I'm glad Obama has acknowledged that there's incitement and anti-Israel sentiment expressed in mosques and schools. I see no evidence that he understands either the extent of it or the effect of it.

192 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:16:02pm

re: #181 avanti

I'm also skeptical that he received any kind of significant bump for nominating a SC justice. I wonder what polls they are looking at.

193 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:16:36pm

re: #181 avanti

The enormity of this political opportunity can hardly be overstated. Republicans are handing us a second Terri Schaivo on a silver platter. We need to keep fueling this discussion.


Yup. Lefties are thrilled be the right's reaction.

194 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:16:56pm
195 samsgran1948  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:17:02pm

re: #62 shaker

Obama says "reduce" the hate speech that is "sometimes" used. He just wants a reduction? What, from 100% to 90%. He is telling the Jews to absolutely stop construction for new families in Judea and Samaria, but he only wants the Arabs to "reduce" the hate speech.

Also the use of hate speech is not "sometimes" in schools, mosques and TV. It is all the time.
Wake up Mr. President!

The exact point I was going to make.

Or, is this just a cheap way of buying some credibility with the Israelis and their supporters, costing him nothing, and gaining no one anything? I'm cynical enough to think this may be all we see here.

Guanxi, I agree 100%. Obama's entire history reeks of anti-Semitism. A couple of throw-away lines isn't going to change that. Until I see Susan Whats-her-name standing up in the UN to demand that Arabs, and most particularly Palestinians, must cease all incitement to hatred and genocide, I will believe it was nothing than a PR burble.

196 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:17:08pm

re: #192 Flyers1974

I'm also skeptical that he received any kind of significant bump for nominating a SC justice. I wonder what polls they are looking at.

flyer ... omg ... you have asked the right person ... go now Avanti ... show him your polls! ... you know you are chomping to show him some ...

197 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:17:31pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

Yup. Lefties are thrilled be the right's reaction.

After the confirmation, it's a non-story.

Then, on to the next Shiny Thing that will kill the Republican Party forevah!

/

198 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:18:08pm

re: #184 Flyers1974

And Terri Schaivo should have been a political disaster in my opinion, but wasn't.


It was a big turnoff to moderates. Especially in hindsight.

199 _RememberTonyC  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:18:52pm

Charles, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Tammy Bruce. I was a fan of hers and only found out about LGF because I listened to her show on SIRIUS back in 2004. But she has remained firmly anti Obama and has not been as willing to give him a chance as you have. Are you and Tammy still on the same page for the most part?

200 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:18:54pm

re: #189 JacksonTn

flyers1974 ... because many Jews vote for the democrat out of tradition ... blind tradition ... I know all about that and will never do it again ... this past election I broke from blind tradition ...

But isn't that what everyone says when the other guy wins, i.e., the public is stupid, deceived, etc... . Remember, us Dems said the same type of stuff to explain our losses to Bush, etc... .

201 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:19:28pm

re: #187 Flyers1974

I gotta wonder why Obama recieved so much Jewish support if that were the case. Or am I mistaken?

No you aren't mistaken & you do no why. The American Jewish Community has traditionaly tilted left. You can track that in most elections & Obama's was no different.

202 vxbush  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:19:47pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

Yup. Lefties are thrilled be the right's reaction.

Greetings everyone--trying to catch up a bit here.

What are the Republicans supposed to do? I got to listen to Rush today, and while I'm not thrilled with his rhetoric at times, I think he has a point about how the Democrats are allowed to say the same type of vitriol about Republican nominees to the bench and they are *never* called on it.

I'm just trying to figure out how you are supposed to work to actually review the nominee when such an obvious double standard exists.

203 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:22:23pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

It was a big turnoff to moderates. Especially in hindsight.

Was it? I'm glad to hear you say that, I thought it didn't have much of an impact.

204 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:23:00pm

re: #61 Guanxi88

I love it when I have the eldest (4 yrs old) in public and he says 'thank you' and 'please' etc without being told. People tell me how well behaved he is. Of course, they dont see him when he is cajoling me for a new nerf gun:)

205 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:23:18pm

Lucianne's hosting a great take on...well...just about everything Obama.

206 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:24:00pm

re: #196 JacksonTn

flyer ... omg ... you have asked the right person ... go now Avanti ... show him your polls! ... you know you are chomping to show him some ...

I have to admit that was funny...

207 vxbush  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:24:01pm

re: #204 Eowyn2

I love it when I have the eldest (4 yrs old) in public and he says 'thank you' and 'please' etc without being told. People tell me how well behaved he is. Of course, they dont see him when he is cajoling me for a new nerf gun:)

What does it tell you about society when manners in children are noteworthy, rather than expected?

208 3 wood  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:25:02pm

Good evening.

I assume this has been linked already, but for those who have not seen it, here are 2 youtube clips of Chris Matthews destroying Roland Burris live on TV the other night with his own words.

I'm the first to call MSM members shills and worse, and I still think Matthews is still overall a shameless stooge for the left, but to give him credit where due he does a great job of setting Burris up and then knocking him out

Part 1

Part 2

For those not familiar with Chicago politics, this is also a textbook explanation of how "pay to play" works.

209 BIGDUKE 6  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:25:42pm

Pal-i's to Obama -----"OK Mr. President we will teach the kids to talk nice about the Jews if we get the Right of Return. Until then Mickey Mouse still wears a bomb belt"

210 kansas  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:26:13pm

Following a meeting Thursday with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, President Obama told the Palestinian leader that “ ... It was very important to continue to make progress in reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square, because all those things are impediments to peace.”

Hopefully he didn't put up little quote unquote signs and wink when he said it.

211 captdiggs  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:26:16pm

Obama is the master of diplo-speak. He's throwing Israel a bone.
Reality is that he is placing no political "pressure" on the Palestinians...only on the more rational party, Israel.
10 cyber-bucks says he only got the information when Netanyahu filled him in on Palestinian media, schools, and Imams spreading hate, during his visit last week.
If Obama was serious, he would condition all US aid to the Palestinians on the elimination of all genocidal teaching and preaching.

212 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:26:19pm

re: #202 vxbush

Most of the attacks are based on race and out of context quotes. The better strategy would be to dispute her qualifications.

213 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:26:55pm

re: #164 LatinGent

Guess he did`nt have to tell Netanyhu to do the same thing. The Israelis dont teach their kids to hate while they`re still in diapers.

There are no saints in this equation. I take it you haven't seen the photographs of Israeli schoolchildren "decorating" and autographing bombs to be dropped on Palestine?

214 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:27:00pm

re: #202 vxbush

Greetings everyone--trying to catch up a bit here.

What are the Republicans supposed to do? I got to listen to Rush today, and while I'm not thrilled with his rhetoric at times, I think he has a point about how the Democrats are allowed to say the same type of vitriol about Republican nominees to the bench and they are *never* called on it.

I'm just trying to figure out how you are supposed to work to actually review the nominee when such an obvious double standard exists.

I was saying this somewhere else... Between LBJ and Obama, only two SC nominees by Dems. One of those nominees was old when appointed by Clinton. Not much to complain about when the opposition nominates a person who won't be on the bench for long. So the comparison between Dem and GOP senatorial rhetoric is not as easy to compare as Rush makes it sound.

215 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:27:43pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Most of the attacks are based on race and out of context quotes. The better strategy would be to dispute her qualifications.

Who has attacked her based on her race?

216 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:28:09pm

re: #203 Flyers1974

Her brain scans were released after her death. She was a vegetable and her brain was gone. Keeping her alive would have been a cruel abomination.

217 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:28:42pm

From the liberal Washington Post:

'Abbas wants US to oust Netanyahu'

"What's interesting about Abbas's hardline position," wrote The Washington Post's Jackson Diehl, who conducted the interview along with a colleague, "is what it says about the message that Obama's first Middle East steps have sent to Palestinians and Arab governments." While the Bush administration placed the onus for change in the Middle East on the Palestinians, Diehl wrote, the Obama administration had shifted the focus to Israel.

The upshot, wrote Diehl, is that "in the Obama administration, so far, it's easy being Palestinian."

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Some can believe Obama's meaningless boiler plate is a game changer. It's nothing of the kind.
The only thing that's changed is that we have a President committed to ousting the elected government of Israel ( something which Bill Clinton did as well for those of you who forget...Clinton family trait, I guess).

218 vxbush  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:29:07pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Most of the attacks are based on race and out of context quotes. The better strategy would be to dispute her qualifications.

I have heard few quotes taken out of context and most of the complaints have been about her making racist remarks. One, in particular, that causes me to wonder if she can be truly impartial on the bench.

But I'm behind today, I freely admit, and haven't read through the stuff Charles has posted yet or listened to the tapes. That has to wait until the son is in bed.

219 gregmw  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:29:33pm

I still think the biggest problem here is not that "Palestinians don't want peace." Of course they want peace. They want peace as much as Israel does. However, both sides want utterly unrealistic versions of peace.

Palestinians want peace that comes from Israel being eliminated and Jews being at the very least removed from the territory or placed under their control. And those are the liberal ones.

Israelies want peace that involves complete, universal security and full recognition with not only the Muslim world but a peace that helps rid the world of the disease of anti-semetism.

We can all agree that the version the Israelis want is infinitely more desirable, but both are fantasies. The sooner both sides realize that, the better.

220 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:29:45pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Most of the attacks are based on race and out of context quotes. The better strategy would be to dispute her qualifications.

When you are a judge nothing is out of context.

221 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:29:59pm

re: #215 OldLineTexan

I can't count how many times I've seen lizards claim that her ethnicity is her only qualification. Or that she only got into law school because of affirmative action. Maybe she's smart and qualified.

222 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:31:14pm

re: #207 vxbush

What does it tell you about society when manners in children are noteworthy, rather than expected?

that society really needs
1) Its mouth washed out with soap
2) A swat on the behind

I hit a turning point when I read about a university study which stated that 'when a man holds a door for a woman he is treating her as someone beneath him and is mocking her with fake respect because servants hold the door for their masters, therefore, he is, in effect, calling her his servant because he is holding the door.'

Those are not the exact words but it really was bizarre.

223 brookly red  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:31:23pm

re: #221 Killgore Trout

I can't count how many times I've seen lizards claim that her ethnicity is her only qualification. Or that she only got into law school because of affirmative action. Maybe she's smart and qualified.

Didn't you just say "The better strategy would be to dispute her qualifications." ?

224 captdiggs  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:31:38pm

re: #213 ShanghaiEd

There are no saints in this equation. I take it you haven't seen the photographs of Israeli schoolchildren "decorating" and autographing bombs to be dropped on Palestine?

Do better research.
1) They were artillery shells to be used against hezbollah in Lebanon who had been raining missiles on those little girls for days
2) The photo was set up by a photographer who asked the girls to send a message and gave them the marker to do it.

225 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:32:09pm

re: #190 Eowyn2

We are not 'going back' to Jew hatred as you put it. To some it has never left (Jimmy Carter and his ilk,) they just put a smiley face on it and termed it something similar to 'human rights violators.'

The UN has always been full of Jew haters and blamers. There are even Jews who hate Jews. There is probably even a Gay Jews for Palestine group somewhere.

I wonder what the world Jewish population would be if they (you) had not been scapegoat to at least off the worlds tyrants over the past 4000 or so years.

They might not be all gay.
[Link: www.zazzle.com...]

226 vxbush  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:34:26pm

re: #222 Eowyn2


I hit a turning point when I read about a university study which stated that 'when a man holds a door for a woman he is treating her as someone beneath him and is mocking her with fake respect because servants hold the door for their masters, therefore, he is, in effect, calling her his servant because he is holding the door.'

Those are not the exact words but it really was bizarre.

That is strange. Talk about fitting a philosophy to an issue of polite society......

I just cannot stand how some "adults" think it's cute to see little kids drinking beer or smoking joints or cursing.

227 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:34:58pm

re: #211 captdiggs

Obama is the master of diplo-speak. He's throwing Israel a bone.
Reality is that he is placing no political "pressure" on the Palestinians...only on the more rational party, Israel.
10 cyber-bucks says he only got the information when Netanyahu filled him in on Palestinian media, schools, and Imams spreading hate, during his visit last week.
If Obama was serious, he would condition all US aid to the Palestinians on the elimination of all genocidal teaching and preaching.

Why, that's that's just just um, mean spirtited.

228 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:35:36pm

re: #226 vxbush

That is strange. Talk about fitting a philosophy to an issue of polite society......

I just cannot stand how some "adults" think it's cute to see little kids drinking beer or smoking joints or cursing.


Not cute at all & it steals the childs innocence.

229 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:35:36pm

Let's give Sotomayor the same consideration as the left gave Bork and Thomas. No, we're better than that.

230 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:37:35pm

re: #229 BatGuano

Let's give Sotomayor the same consideration as the left gave Bork and Thomas. No, we're better than that.

I do hope that she is asked directly about the wise Latina making better decisions than a white guy.
I really want to hear her explain that.

231 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:37:37pm

Oh, seriously. BHO will be caught saying essentially the same thing about ' Israeli hate speech '(or provocative actions/settlements/, fill in the blank as you like) to a Pal group before a week goes by.
He's all about preemptive media damage control...although he's not nearly as good at it as he needs to be in this internet/24-hr news cycle age.

232 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:37:55pm
233 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:38:12pm

re: #226 vxbush

That is strange. Talk about fitting a philosophy to an issue of polite society......

I just cannot stand how some "adults" think it's cute to see little kids drinking beer or smoking joints or cursing.

When my sons lived at home, every time them or one of their friends said the F-bomb; smack up side the head. They each had one warning. One of the friends said that if I smacked him, he'd call the cops on me for assault. I told him to get out of my house and never come back. If you're in my house you live by my rules. He came back and apologized. My son (with 4 yr old) has recently told me that he is glad I didnt allow it. Its amazing how much they learn when their own kid starts speaking:)

234 SummerSong  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:39:46pm

"...reducing the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are sometimes expressed..."

GOOD.

...Eliminating the incitement and anti-Israel sentiments that are usually expressed..."

BETTER.

235 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:40:05pm

re: #229 BatGuano

She's already been given much better treatment.... Teddy Kennedy was on the Senate floor Borking Bork before the nomination was a day old. BHO led a filibuster attempt against C/J Roberts....so surely he will understand if the Republicans take the same opportunity.
Only they won't.

236 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:40:21pm

re: #30 Guanxi88

I wonder what, really, it all means. As Charles points out, no instance of W making such a statement comes to mind, but, then again, having said this, what is the upshot of it? Is there any action expected to result from this recommendation against "unhelpful" pronouncements? Does he really think he can gently encourage a reduction in what is a stock-in-trade at far too many mosques there? Can Barry's words alone really begin to undo what has been a concerted cultural effort going back at least to the 70's?

Or, is this just a cheap way of buying some credibility with the Israelis and their supporters, costing him nothing, and gaining no one anything? I'm cynical enough to think this may be all we see here.

Well, Obama's word is The Word for a lot of Democrats - a problem doesn't exist until one of their own mentions it, and Obie's a walking Dem fantasy with more street cred than Clinton in 1993. This might cause a handful of Democrats to suddenly acknowledge that a problem exists.

(They'll promptly blame it on Republicans or excuse it as "cultural expression" or some such, but still.)

237 vxbush  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:40:31pm

re: #233 Eowyn2

When my sons lived at home, every time them or one of their friends said the F-bomb; smack up side the head. They each had one warning. One of the friends said that if I smacked him, he'd call the cops on me for assault. I told him to get out of my house and never come back. If you're in my house you live by my rules. He came back and apologized. My son (with 4 yr old) has recently told me that he is glad I didnt allow it. Its amazing how much they learn when their own kid starts speaking:)

Heh. When my son (pre-accident) tried to use a bad word, I had him use a toothbrush and literally wash his mouth out with soap. It worked. :D

238 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:41:03pm

re: #230 opnion

I do hope that she is asked directly about the wise Latina making better decisions than a white guy.
I really want to hear her explain that.

she's already saying it was a poor choice of words.[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I haven't read it, just the headline.

239 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:41:19pm

Here's what is actually happening in the Palestinian territories. This is the reality Obama and his lap dog Secretary of State went to pretend is just a "sometimes" problem:

Lunch Briefing and Q&A
"How the Palestinian Hate Industry
Undermines Prospects for Peace"

featuring

Itamar Marcus
Director, Palestinian Media Watch
Itamar Marcus presented the latest developments in Palestinian society, showing recent hate propaganda in video and print. Marcus's presentation detailed the demonization, denial of Israel's right to exist, incitement to martyrdom and violence against Jews and Christians in the Palestinian media, that remain the paramount obstacles to peace. Marcus also took questions from journalists after the presentation.

[Link: www.theisraelproject.org...]

240 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:41:42pm

re: #232 Iron Fist

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we should just shut up and rubber-stamp her. Which was basically how we handled Ginsberg. That should not happen ever again.

What should be done is review her record and and ask her the tough questions about her racist/racialist comments and her judicial philosophy.

No rubber stamp for this one!

241 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:42:22pm

re: #230 opnion

Me too!

242 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:42:45pm

re: #238 Eowyn2

She didn't say a thing about it.
Teh One put the word out for her.
So now he can add ' mind reader' to his resume.....

243 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:42:52pm

re: #225 Truck Monkey

But we all know what happens to openly gay men in Islamic countries.

244 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:43:01pm

re: #235 tradewind

She's already been given much better treatment.... Teddy Kennedy was on the Senate floor Borking Bork before the nomination was a day old. BHO led a filibuster attempt against C/J Roberts....so surely he will understand if the Republicans take the same opportunity.
Only they won't.

I remember that the head of the DNC (Gov. Dean) said that Antonin Scalia might be soft on the mafia because of his Italian heritage. He did it all in an "I've heard people say" way. Sneaky and duplicitious.

245 Clubsec  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:43:12pm

Many of you via Charles' blogland have witnessed with morbid curiosity that Palestinian 'children's TV show' where they have this 'Jew eating rabbit' character. Now I have no way to observe that program to verify it's existence or demise, but I'll venture to say that program remains on Pali-TV for the Titus's entire term in office.
Practically everything ObamUH has said has had an expiration date.

It has been awhile but I recall Clinton giving the Palestinian Authority 28,000 ... thats twenty-eight THOUSAND M-16's. (to build their security forces don't ya know). Folks that's enough rifles to equip more than TWO infantry divisions. Foggy Bottom at it's finest.

Like a moth to a flame, the Jewish voters went for ObamUH. Astounding, simply astounding.

246 opnion  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:43:55pm

re: #238 Eowyn2

she's already saying it was a poor choice of words.[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I haven't read it, just the headline.

Well,she should say that & say that she was just being flip.
Turn the tables & have a white guy say something similar , all hell would break loose.
But, if this is all there is, she gets confirmrd.

247 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:44:12pm

re: #224 captdiggs

Do better research.
1) They were artillery shells to be used against hezbollah in Lebanon who had been raining missiles on those little girls for days
2) The photo was set up by a photographer who asked the girls to send a message and gave them the marker to do it.

Link, please?

248 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:44:33pm

re: #242 tradewind

She didn't say a thing about it.
Teh One put the word out for her.
So now he can add ' mind reader' to his resume.....

He visited on his unicorn:)
damn, I should have read it.

249 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:44:38pm

re: #243 Eowyn2

But we all know what happens to openly gay men in Islamic countries.

Yes. They design the dictators palaces and coordinate their outfits?

250 BatGuano  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:44:52pm

re: #235 tradewind

She's already been given much better treatment.... Teddy Kennedy was on the Senate floor Borking Bork before the nomination was a day old. BHO led a filibuster attempt against C/J Roberts....so surely he will understand if the Republicans take the same opportunity.
Only they won't.

Indeed she has gotten better treatment. On this site even. And the Republicans are not going to seriously challenge her.

251 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:45:29pm

re: #238 Eowyn2

she's already saying it was a poor choice of words.[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I haven't read it, just the headline.


Robert Gibbs said that for her in the WH Press briefing. He never actually spoke to her so he doesn't know crap. This is pure spin.

252 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:46:29pm

Everyone have a safe weekend.
I'm going home now
or maybe to the adult beverage counter.

253 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:46:44pm

re: #219 gregmw

Israelies want peace that involves complete, universal security and full recognition with not only the Muslim world but a peace that helps rid the world of the disease of anti-semetism.

"Horse hockey"
- Col. Potter

254 onepistoffyid  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:46:53pm

re: #191 Lynn B.

I think that might have been a misnomer. Unless the intention was to imply that we're all hostages in some way?

I do agree, though, that we've come to expect so little from this president in the way of recognition of the true threats facing both our nation and our allies that the slightest hint of consciousness makes us a bit giddy.

I'm glad Obama has acknowledged that there's incitement and anti-Israel sentiment expressed in mosques and schools. I see no evidence that he understands either the extent of it or the effect of it.

yes lynn that is what I and the other poster who orginally used that term means....the bar is so low for Obama that we are thrilled when he makes a minor statement that looks even a little good....sort of like how a hostage responds to a little kindness by beginning to identify with the kidnapper.

255 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:46:58pm

re: #249 Truck Monkey

Yes. They design the dictators palaces and coordinate their outfits?

Dinnerjacket needs a new designer.

256 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:47:07pm

re: #252 Eowyn2

Everyone have a safe weekend.
I'm going home now
or maybe to the adult beverage counter.

I'll count them for you!

257 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:47:28pm

re: #245 Clubsec

Many of you via Charles' blogland have witnessed with morbid curiosity that Palestinian 'children's TV show' where they have this 'Jew eating rabbit' character. Now I have no way to observe that program to verify it's existence or demise, but I'll venture to say that program remains on Pali-TV for the Titus's entire term in office.
Practically everything ObamUH has said has had an expiration date.

It has been awhile but I recall Clinton giving the Palestinian Authority 28,000 ... thats twenty-eight THOUSAND M-16's. (to build their security forces don't ya know). Folks that's enough rifles to equip more than TWO infantry divisions. Foggy Bottom at it's finest.

Like a moth to a flame, the Jewish voters went for ObamUH. Astounding, simply astounding.

What evidence were Jewish voters given that a Republican administration was a benefit to Israel? The TV show in question certainly ran during a Republican administration.

258 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:47:35pm

re: #247 ShanghaiEd

[Link: www.sandmonkey.org...]
There are many... you can do your own research, but here is one.

259 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:47:43pm

re: #253 The Shadow Do

"Horse hockey"
- Col. Potter

are you sure that isn't
"horse puckey"
"meadow muffins"
"road apples"

260 Truck Monkey  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:48:13pm

re: #255 Eowyn2

Dinnerjacket needs a new designer.

I still have my Members Only jacket. What are you trying to say?

/

261 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:48:20pm

re: #250 BatGuano

Indeed she has gotten better treatment. On this site even. And the Republicans are not going to seriously challenge her.

Peggy Noonan wrote an interesting piece regarding the Sotomayor candidacy. The subtitle is: Sotomayor's hearings are an opportunity for serious debate. It touches on current and past issues regarding previous supreme court choices.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

262 Eowyn2  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:48:24pm

re: #256 Truck Monkey

I'll count them for you!

appreciate that. then i dont have to.

263 odorlesspaintthinner  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:48:39pm

Every president has the lofty goal of solving the Middle East crisis. Big O seems bent on achieving it within his first term. The problem with this is he is making all these moves on the world stage, and when the Israelis finally start resisting the pressure, who will step in to say it was the Israelis impeding progress all along? The Arab world, of course. It's just bad chess. This guy is still a lightweight, and the Arabs know it, they sense it, they've been waiting for a POTUS like him. He's like the Mahdi.

264 MandyManners  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:49:22pm

My dad has taken The Kid and his bestest buddy out to a ball game, and then he'll drop them off here for a sleep-over. During the peace and quiet I'm taking Mom out to dinner. Have a great Friday evening!

265 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:49:51pm

re: #261 Gus 802

Peggy Noonan wrote an interesting piece regarding the Sotomayor candidacy. The subtitle is: Sotomayor's hearings are an opportunity for serious debate. It touches on current and past issues regarding previous supreme court choices.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Permanent link: [Link: online.wsj.com...]

266 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:50:58pm

re: #250 BatGuano

So we hear. There is a lot of time between now and September..... maybe something else will develop.
If the thinking is that BO will get more cracks at SCOTUS and that we may get worse next time and need to conserve ammo, IMO that's flawed reasoning.
On the other hand, Sotomayor has given the libdems a couple of decisions they aren't wild about, either, so maybe she's not the worst there could be.

267 Clubsec  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:51:24pm

Titus? s/b ... TOTUS entire term in office. oops.

268 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:52:01pm

boy; that commie obama and his pro-islamic radicalism; what are ya goin' do.................................../

269 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:52:28pm

#191 Lynn B

Don't be so literal

Your own post says exactly what I meant by using the Stockholm term


"...we've come to expect so little from this president in the way of recognition of the true threats facing both our nation and our allies that the slightest hint of consciousness makes us a bit giddy."

270 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:53:40pm

re: #261 Gus 802
Peggy Noonan sold her serious journalist cred for an uninterrupted press pass and renewal of her ticket to Georgetown cocktail parties during the campaign.
I don't trust anything she says anymore, which is a shame.

271 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:55:50pm

re: #248 Eowyn2

Even if BHO had had the smarts to say ' I talked to her and she told me that'.....
but no. He just used his crystal.....

272 HelloDare  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:55:57pm

Words are cheap. Did Obama back up those words with any actions? Will he? If not, his words mean nothing.

Wonder if he ever counseled his pal Rashid Khalidi on hate speech. If only the L.A. Times would release video of that dinner. I'm sure we'd see Obama stand up and rebuke hate speech. /

273 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:56:02pm

re: #258 tradewind

[Link: www.sandmonkey.org...]
There are many... you can do your own research, but here is one.

One e-mail from a blogger with no last name? And she excuses the incident by saying they're only "poor kids"? Other photos show the parents watching; they had no problem with it. Sorry, this isn't definitive for me.

274 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:57:11pm
275 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:57:53pm

#213 Shan Ed

You've got to be kidding.

276 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:58:05pm

re: #259 Eowyn2

are you sure that isn't
"horse puckey"
"meadow muffins"
"road apples"

bull puppy maybe?

277 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:58:07pm

re: #233 Eowyn2

When my sons lived at home, every time them or one of their friends said the F-bomb; smack up side the head. They each had one warning. One of the friends said that if I smacked him, he'd call the cops on me for assault. I told him to get out of my house and never come back. If you're in my house you live by my rules. He came back and apologized. My son (with 4 yr old) has recently told me that he is glad I didnt allow it. Its amazing how much they learn when their own kid starts speaking:)

Hitting children in the head is wrong, mean, and counterproductive. Period. I certainly wouldn't brag about it.

278 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:58:44pm

re: #270 tradewind

Peggy Noonan sold her serious journalist cred for an uninterrupted press pass and renewal of her ticket to Georgetown cocktail parties during the campaign.
I don't trust anything she says anymore, which is a shame.

That might be the case. I was going to preface my link with "she's not everyones' cup of tea" for the reasons you mention. I too found her comments during the campaign objectionable from time to time. Her comments on this topic however provide an interesting take. She is the author of "Boys of Pointe du Hoc" one of Reagan's many speeches she authored.

279 Velvet Elvis  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:59:04pm

sorry about the lefty source (feel free to delete if you like Charles) but G. Gorden Liddy has just been quoted saying of Sotomayor

Let’s hope that the key conferences aren’t when she’s menstruating or something, or just before she’s going to menstruate. That would really be bad. Lord knows what we would get then.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

280 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 3:59:10pm

re: #273 ShanghaiEd

Then find a source you can accept.... that was just the first link I saw.

281 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:00:05pm

re: #279 Conservative Moonbat

OMG.
Earth to G Gordon.....unless she is breaking some kind of Guiness record.......

282 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:08:11pm

re: #278 Gus 802
Agreed, she did some great work, but...
In the words of that song,
I used to love her... but it's all over now...

283 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:09:44pm

re: #280 tradewind

Then find a source you can accept.... that was just the first link I saw.

I've been looking into this for a long time. I can't find any evidence that excuses it. Still open to proof, though.

Nobody is blameless in this conflict. Pretending otherwise and talking in absolutes doesn't help either side, and Lord knows both are suffering.

284 Gus  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:10:26pm

re: #282 tradewind

Agreed, she did some great work, but...
In the words of that song,
I used to love her... but it's all over now...

That reminded me of this one by Bob Dylan but that's probably not the one:

It's All Over Now, Baby Blue

You must leave now, take what you need, you think will last.
But whatever you wish to keep, you better grab it fast.
Yonder stands your orphan with his gun,
Crying like a fire in the sun.
Look out the saints are comin' through
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

The highway is for gamblers, better use your sense.
Take what you have gathered from coincidence.
The empty-handed painter from your streets
Is drawing crazy patterns on your sheets.
This sky, too, is folding under you
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

All your seasick sailors, they are rowing home.
All your reindeer armies, are all going home.
The lover who just walked out your door
Has taken all his blankets from the floor.
The carpet, too, is moving under you
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

Leave your stepping stones behind, something calls for you.
Forget the dead you've left, they will not follow you.
The vagabond who's rapping at your door
Is standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Strike another match, go start anew
And it's all over now, Baby Blue.

Copyright ©1965; renewed 1993 Special Rider Music

285 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:10:54pm

re: #275 Colin Nelson

#213 Shan Ed

You've got to be kidding.

Nope, not a subject to kid about. You have a comment?

286 Mikey_Dallas  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:10:58pm

re: #219 gregmw

I still think the biggest problem here is not that "Palestinians don't want peace." Of course they want peace. They want peace as much as Israel does. However, both sides want utterly unrealistic versions of peace.

Palestinians want peace that comes from Israel being eliminated and Jews being at the very least removed from the territory or placed under their control. And those are the liberal ones.

Israelies want peace that involves complete, universal security and full recognition with not only the Muslim world but a peace that helps rid the world of the disease of anti-semetism.

We can all agree that the version the Israelis want is infinitely more desirable, but both are fantasies. The sooner both sides realize that, the better.


I hardly think Israeli's or Jews in general expect a world free of antisemitism as a prerequisite for peace. "Complete Universal Security"? Do you know anything at all about the history of the Middle East, in particular, the history of the land now known as Israel or Palestine or whatever you prefer to call it? It doesn't appear so.

Under your "theory", Israel would not have made peace agreements with Jordan or Egypt.....but they did. Under your "theory", Israel would not have offered a very good settlement offer to the Palestinians....which they completely rejected.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Israelis want one thing in exchange for peace - to be truly and honestly, just left alone by the Arab countries. Not love, not respect, not admiration, just to be left to their own lives without the constant threat of attack. And in exchange, they will leave the Palestinians alone, to do whatever they want with their lives, as long as they don't threaten Israel. That's the formula for peace from the Israeli side.

You want to make some kind of parity game out of the competing demands of both sides - some kind of equivalence of some type - well that is just a game that you are playing.

Opinion without knowledge is just blathering. You are entitled to your opinion, friend, but at least educate yourself. A fool who keeps his mouth shut at least keeps his foolishness a secret.

287 nyc redneck  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:11:16pm

i just can't jump to applaud o for this.
to get excited abt. a bland admonition to the palis is sort of desperate .
grasping for anything to feel better abt. o.
i'm going to need to see more. a trend in his behavior overall,
toward doing what is right and fair.
a few phrases is not enough for me to believe he has changed his attitude.
the one he honed in the hate church for 20 yrs.

288 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:11:58pm

re: #188 ryannon

Towercam for ryannon!

Sort of cloudy though. Maybe the sunset will be good.

289 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:13:58pm

re: #279 Conservative Moonbat

ugh.

290 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:16:13pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

ugh.

Well. I suppose Liddy will now be the face of the Republican Party to some.

/

291 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:16:22pm

re: #279 Conservative Moonbat is liddy out of prison?..............

292 OldLineTexan  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:18:44pm

re: #291 gtrs

is liddy out of prison?..............

He served 4.5 years, commuted by Carter.

Of course, this is from Wiki; usual disclaimers apply.

293 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:20:10pm

Special Report' Panel on Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: We have to start understanding that Abbas is an illusion. He is a fiction. He is a ghost. He is a potential president. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I mean, even the presidency he holds is a dubious legality. And it is said of him that he doesn't even control downtown Ramallah where his offices are.

So you got a man who doesn't have anything in his control. And the reason that years of negotiations he held with the previous Israeli leader, Ehud Olmert, went nowhere is because when Olmert offered everything, Abbas had nothing he can offer to back it up.

So, what is it the United States is trying to do? It has to have a peace process in place, otherwise people will wake up and say we don't have a peace process, and that is intolerable. So you create one.


If you see where Obama is going next week, he's going to be in Egypt, in Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. The idea is to he create an odd, three-way negotiation in which Israel makes concessions, small concessions, incremental, on the ground, like the lifting of roadblocks, the dismantling of outlying settlements.

And the corresponding concession is not from Abbas, who can't deliver, but from the Arab states — for example, the relaxation of Israel's isolation, trade bans. You could imagine the ping-pong team in Saudi Arabia, although that's rather unlikely, but a gesture onto part of Arabs. So that's what the administration is setting up.

There are some, however, in the administration who believe you can actually have a real settlement in this administration. I think it's an illusion. There's an old adage in the Middle East, "He whom the gods would destroy puts it in his head to solve the Arab-Israeli dispute."

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I'm not sure Krauthammer understands that we are dealing with a President who thinks he is one of the gods or at least some people think he is.

294 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:20:33pm

re: #163 MandyManners

See Nos. 31, 55 and 65.

Obama's statement is far stronger.

295 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:25:33pm

re: #284 Gus 802
I really like yours.... I meant the one by the Stones...

Youtube Video
296 gtrs  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:25:50pm

REPUBLICAN LEADER tom tancredo is NOW this minute on hard ball saying that PRESIDENT OBAMA and his administration HATES white people; do you AGREE?

297 JacksonTn  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:27:37pm

re: #295 tradewind

I really like yours.... I meant the one by the Stones...

[Video]

trade ... I told you I bought two of his albums after you posted this ... I really like him ...

I Don't Live In A Dream ... Jackie Greene ...

Youtube Video
298 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:32:48pm

re: #296 gtrs

REPUBLICAN LEADER tom tancredo is NOW this minute on hard ball saying that PRESIDENT OBAMA and his administration HATES white people; do you AGREE?

Tancredo tanks.

And no, I don't agree.

Troll.

299 tradewind  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:35:14pm

re: #297 JacksonTn

Yeah, he's really good. Glad you liked it.
Got that from the tv show Life... sadly now axed... but the music is all posted on the NBC show site, and there are some great new artists that I had never heard of.

300 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:39:05pm

#127 Silvergirl

There may be, as you hope, some of our own people (guess you mean those of us who do not live in the ME) who believe that the world works according to the poems of Frost. Good luck with that.

On the other hand those in the ME - to whom BHO was addressing himself - know full well that the words are as empty as the man himself.

301 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:47:57pm

#191 Lynn B.

My apologies for my #269.

I missed the post ahead of yours, #186 to which you are replying.

Please excuse me.

302 Throbert McGee  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:48:33pm

re: #22 davesax

No progress has been made, and hatred of Jews is woven into the fabric of Palestinian culture.

If he was serious, he would say, "Israel should withdraw from settlements in return for recognition of a Jewish state".

I beg to differ, davesax. He should say, instead: "The Arabs must recognize the Jewish state, and in return Israel should withdraw from settlements."

In other words, not "land for peace," but "peace for land," in that order.

303 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:54:59pm

re: #102 MJ

It carries no weight, no weight whatsoever since there are no penalties attached for their continual incitement to murder Jews.

Want to see the daily incitement...and not the "sometimes" incitement that Obama is trying to bury?
Check
memri.org
Start here:
[Link: www.memri.org...]

re: #293 MJ

Special Report' Panel on Israeli-Palestinian Conflict


[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I'm not sure Krauthammer understands that we are dealing with a President who thinks he is one of the gods or at least some people think he is.

I am familiar with memri.org, and Obama must have been made aware of the background events. I don't believe that what he said carries no weight, although it currently would be measured in milligrams. It's clear that he's going to have to follow up with much more, if he's serious about making a positive contribution to resolving the conflict. This is a small step in the right direction, but it's clearly not enough.

304 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 4:58:03pm

#285. S Ed

Now that you ask, yes.

Your relativist position is a perfect example of what passes for leftist thinking.

Sharansky speaks of moral clarity.

305 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:01:10pm

re: #301 Colin Nelson

#191 Lynn B.

My apologies for my #269.

I missed the post ahead of yours, #186 to which you are replying.

Please excuse me.

No problem and no apology necessary.

But thanks.

306 [deleted]  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:01:39pm
307 John Neverbend  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:05:03pm

re: #293 MJ

I'm all for it, as long as Israel isn't blamed if Obama fails to secure any meaningful Arab concessions. If the Arabs are more concerned about Iran than they are about the Israeli/Palestinian issue, as some commentators have suggested, the chances of progress are somewhat improved.

308 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:05:49pm

re: #304 Colin Nelson

#285. S Ed

Now that you ask, yes.

Your relativist position is a perfect example of what passes for leftist thinking.

Sharansky speaks of moral clarity.

If accuracy of statement is leftist, I plead guilty.

Sharansky is a courageous man, who speaks and writes well.

Moral clarity doesn't always ensure moral behavior. Sometimes it gets in the way of it.

309 itellu3times  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:10:06pm

As y'all have already said, every now and then Obama gets himself a positive karma point.

Does this balance out what he has Hillary yapping about? No. That's about a dozen negative karma points, or a dozen million, whatever.

Still, on this, way to go, Mr. President, may we have another?

(and wait for the seething replies from Jihadistan)

310 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:13:04pm

re: #306 democast

Nice. Threats of terror on behalf of Gawd.

311 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:17:57pm

Yeah, Obama just loves Israel:

Administration blocks helicopters for Israel due to civilian casualties in Gaza

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has blocked Israel's request for advanced U.S.-origin attack helicopters.

Government sources said the administration has held up Israel's request for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter. The sources said the request was undergoing an interagency review to determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip...

[Link: www.worldtribune.com...]

Meanwhile, in the paradise of Democracy:

WASHINGTON --- On May 22, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified
Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Egypt of
12 AH-64D Block II APACHE Longbow Helicopters and associated equipment,
parts, training and support for an estimated cost of $820 million...

[Link: www.yonitheblogger.com...]

Face it, Obama is anti-Israel to his core.
You don't sit listening to a Jew-hater for 20 years if you don't agree with what he's preaching.

312 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:21:41pm

re: #213 ShanghaiEd

There are no saints in this equation. I take it you haven't seen the photographs of Israeli schoolchildren "decorating" and autographing bombs to be dropped on Palestine?

I'm really surprised at you, buying into this BS. What bombs has Israel ever dropped on "Palestine?" What universe are you living in?

re: #273 ShanghaiEd

One e-mail from a blogger with no last name? And she excuses the incident by saying they're only "poor kids"? Other photos show the parents watching; they had no problem with it. Sorry, this isn't definitive for me.

How about this blogger (Charles Johnson):

You know the picture of Israeli girls writing messages on shells, addressed to Hizballah leader Sheikh Nasrallah? The one that’s currently being emailed to me several times a day by progressive types, usually accompanied with obscenity-laced messages such as, “Why don’t you post this Israeli child abuse on your famous blog, a—hole?” (A genuine message I received.)

...

Well, imagine my surprise to discover that the photo was a setup by foreign journalists.

But feel free to do your own research.

313 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:22:08pm

Good grief. Here we go again. Where the hell did I say "Obama loves Israel?"

Is there some kind of virus going around that prevents people from understanding what I write?

314 Ojoe  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:28:19pm

re: #313 Charles

By now at 59 I think that most understanding is rare.

315 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:29:34pm

re: #313 Charles

Good grief. Here we go again. Where the hell did I say "Obama loves Israel?"

Is there some kind of virus going around that prevents people from understanding what I write?

Snow Crash?

[Neal Stephenson ref, not the Lizard of that name]

316 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:28pm

re: #306 democast

You are not welcome to post comments at LGF. I'm not going to stand for threats of terrorism at my blog.

317 Flyers1974  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:31:49pm

re: #229 BatGuano

Let's give Sotomayor the same consideration as the left gave Bork and Thomas. No, we're better than that.

Bork and Thomas are much further to the right than Sotomayor is the left I think. Even some conservatives have expressed their concerns regarding Bork. In order to fairly compare the sides' "fairness" we would have to see how the right would react to an extremely liberal and young nominee.

318 Colin Nelson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:32:12pm

#308 Sh Ed

The last thing I would accuse you of is accuracy.

319 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:33:24pm

re: #306 democast

And I see you've also been posting links to Kahanist propaganda. They're all going away.

320 lightspeed  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:36:09pm

I think Obama has the perfect plan for not only reducing, but completely eliminating anti-Israeli sentiment in the Islamic world--to accede to their wishes and facilitate the destruction of Israel. Simple. No more Israel, no more anti-Israeli sentiment.

321 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:40:23pm

re: #319 Charles

I didn't know about the Kahanism, but I could smell something like it coming off that post.

Creepy crawly cretins.

322 Bob Dillon  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:40:38pm

re: #74 KenJen

How about--"KNOCK THE SH*T OFF OR WE WILL CUT OFF YOUR AID"

Or - your aid payments will be sent to the Israelis - and the amounts and timings as to when released voted on by the villages that have been rocketed in the past or future.

Just a thot.

323 American Sabra  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:42:09pm

re: #311 MJ

I don't trust anything that says "government sources say" and neither should you. I look for names and it better be someone who knows what they're talking about.

The US DSCA website lists arms sold in 2009 as follows:

CY 2009

(WASHINGTON, May 18, 2009)
On May 18, DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the government of Morocco of one Gulfstream G-550

(WASHINGTON, April 23, 2009)
On April 6 DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Australia of CHINOOK Helicopters

(WASHINGTON, April 3, 2009)
DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Mexico of Persuader Maritime Patrol Aircraft

(WASHINGTON, March 13, 2009)
DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Mexico of Bell 412EP Helicopters

I don't see "Palestine" mentioned here.

324 Kobalt  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:46:26pm

Hate speech? What about Abbas' hate speech?

Abbas' PhD thesis was on holocaust denial. Seeing how as the holocaust is probably the most documented occurrence in human history, I would say denying the holocaust is wholesale antisemitism...

EMPTY RHETORIC FALLING ON AN EMPTY EARS

325 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:54:56pm

re: #323 American Sabra

I don't trust anything that says "government sources say" and neither should you. I look for names and it better be someone who knows what they're talking about.

The US DSCA website lists arms sold in 2009 as follows:

CY 2009

(WASHINGTON, May 18, 2009)
On May 18, DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the government of Morocco of one Gulfstream G-550

(WASHINGTON, April 23, 2009)
On April 6 DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Australia of CHINOOK Helicopters

(WASHINGTON, April 3, 2009)
DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Mexico of Persuader Maritime Patrol Aircraft

(WASHINGTON, March 13, 2009)
DSCA notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Mexico of Bell 412EP Helicopters

I don't see "Palestine" mentioned here.


The sale is to Egypt.
As for not believing "government sources" fine, don't believe it. JINSA has very good sources and they reported it too:

"In a decidedly NOT formal notification, MENL reports that the Obama administration has held up Israel's request for six AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopters. Sources told MENL the request was undergoing an "interagency review" to "determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip".

[Link: prwatcher.blogspot.com...]

326 Spare O'Lake  Fri, May 29, 2009 5:57:07pm

If the arabs think that Obama may be willing to try to force Israel to stop and/or dismantle the west bank settlements without any reciprocal peace moves on the arab side own part, then of course they will pursue that track.

And to me the whole idea of trying to get the peace process "restarted" without first securing Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State and the withdrawal of claims to a right of return, is a colossal waste of time.

It is not yet clear to me that Obama is quite enough of an asshole to try this one-sided approach.

We shall see.

327 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:00:47pm

re: #312 Lynn B.

Lynn B: I'm familiar with this link. There was an update to the Adloyada site after Charles' post, apparently.

I did make an error of terminology; this particular photo is of shells, not bombs. And I certainly don't claim any moral equivalence between the parties involved. Just saying that no one, in this complex tragedy, has totally clean hands. That's all.

328 American Sabra  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:03:57pm

re: #325 MJ

The sale is to Egypt.
As for not believing "government sources" fine, don't believe it. JINSA has very good sources and they reported it too:

"In a decidedly NOT formal notification, MENL reports that the Obama administration has held up Israel's request for six AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopters. Sources told MENL the request was undergoing an "interagency review" to "determine whether additional Longbow helicopters would threaten Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip".

[Link: prwatcher.blogspot.com...]

I see Morocco, Australia and Mexico and they are listed as possible sales.

I also looked for your articles on Israeli sites, both right and left wing and couldn't find any mention of it anywhere other than the article you posted. I would think it would be somewhere else.

329 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:08:09pm

re: #184 Flyers1974

I'd like to think this is a political disaster for the Republicans, but that sounds a little dramatic to me. And Terri Schaivo should have been a political disaster in my opinion, but wasn't.

Some people date the beginning of the turning of the political tide at disgust over the circus around Schiavo, though. I think an argument could be made in favour of that.
Like you, I was surprised that there wasn't more immediate fallout.

I don't think the noise around Sotomayor is political disaster for the Republicans, but I do think it's damaging to them.

330 MJ  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:15:07pm

re: #328 American Sabra

I see Morocco, Australia and Mexico and they are listed as possible sales.

I also looked for your articles on Israeli sites, both right and left wing and couldn't find any mention of it anywhere other than the article you posted. I would think it would be somewhere else.

The sale was reported May 22. Your list ends on May 18.
I provided you a link. Don't want to believe it, that's your business.
[Link: www.jinsa.org...]

331 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:17:47pm

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

I'm really glad he did this, but he needs to back it up with some muscle. If they ignore him, he should tell them they're not serious about peace and make sure to treat Israel accordingly in negotiations.

Exactly. Obama's statement lacked strength.

"that are sometimes expressed in schools and mosques and in the public square"

SOMETIMES?!?

Either the President is clueless about the blatant antisemitism that seethes out of the ME or he wants to appear the "peacemaker" without a show of force. He can't have it both ways. Promote peace, yes, and so so with reason, but be firm when it comes to opposing the vile hatred espoused by Arab governments and organizations.

332 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:25:12pm

re: #317 Flyers1974

Bork and Thomas are much further to the right than Sotomayor is the left I think. Even some conservatives have expressed their concerns regarding Bork. In order to fairly compare the sides' "fairness" we would have to see how the right would react to an extremely liberal and young nominee.

Ah, but that's part of the point. Painting Sotomoyer as some sort of liberal extremist (when in fact she is quite centrist and moderate) serves to shift the Overton Window to the right.
To the extent that the right is successful in making her seem 'liberal' a genuinely liberal justice will then look completely radical.

In effect, the noise over Sotomoyer's appointment isn't being done to block SS, but to set up the battleground for Obama's next appointments--the ones that will involve replacing a conservative justice and tilting the political balance of the court. Hence the fabricated outrage right now.

It would actually be a shrewd strategy for the Republicans, if only some of the attacks being made on Sotomoyer weren't so awful--cf. Liddy's comment about menstruation. Unfortunately the crazy wing of the right is ruling the party right now, and so that's why the left is loving the spectacle.

333 American Sabra  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:36:01pm

re: #330 MJ

Ok sorry. I read it. You're right. It's pretty troubling.

334 Dr. Shalit  Fri, May 29, 2009 6:48:38pm

Charles -

The Palestinians HAVE to be read the "RIOT ACT" regarding their behavior.
Do I trust Pres. Obama to do that - NO! Pres. Bush 43 couldn't pull it off, try as he might - and GWB had "Baytzim" - Obama HAS NOT.
Olmert was to a degree "Baytzim-Less" - he could Start conflicts and NOT finish them. My cousin Gilad is still in Gaza and purportedly alive.
If HAMAS is as good as the "Peace Loving" Palestinians can come up with given a democratic choice, I consider the close election of LIKUD in Israel to be moderation. Palestinians, be of good cheer. The Israeli PM, instead of FM could have been Avigdor Lieberman - all 'y'all dodged a bullet - sorta, kinda.
As to the "Riot Act" - I proffer DAHLAN. He is a would be Strongman, as was Saddam Hussein, a "Cat Herder" to say the least. HE is what the "Palestinians" deserve.
Fayyad, the current PM, is what they COULD have had. The Palestinians will reject Fayyad. Owning Israel is more important. That is all.

-S-

335 mfarmer1  Fri, May 29, 2009 7:25:28pm

Obama will soon be visited by the Ghosts of Terrorist Past, Present and Future; Farfour, Nahoul, and Assud.

A mouse, a bee, and a Jew eating rabbit are preparing their chains. Tiny Tim Geithner hasn't got a prayer.

336 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 8:33:25pm

re: #327 ShanghaiEd

Lynn B: I'm familiar with this link. There was an update to the Adloyada site after Charles' post, apparently.

I did make an error of terminology; this particular photo is of shells, not bombs. And I certainly don't claim any moral equivalence between the parties involved. Just saying that no one, in this complex tragedy, has totally clean hands. That's all.

So you've conceded that Israel was not bombing "Palestine" but shelling "Palestine." I hate to break it to you but Lebanon is not "Palestine." Still, I guess this is a move in the right direction?

Adloyada's update in no way validated the libel that those photos were intended to and did perpetrate against the children of Kiryat Shmona. Have you ever been there? Have you seen the damage that community survived in that war? Has your home town even been shelled to smithereens? Are you in position to judge the children of that town or their parents, who were manipulated by a media with an agenda into "posing" for that photograph? What does it take, in your mind, to have "clean hands?"

Seriously, Ed. I've read your comments here before. You know better than this.

337 ShanghaiEd  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:00:06pm

re: #336 Lynn B.

Lynn: You're correct. The shells in the photo were bound for Lebanon, not Palestine.

Please note that my original, ham-handed reply was to Latin Gent, who wrote:

The Israelis dont teach their kids to hate while they`re still in diapers.

That's hyperbole. Some of them do, some of them don't. Unavoidable, in such an atmosphere, and I certainly don't judge them, as I don't have clean hands myself. Latin Gent's statement is inaccurate.

I do have friends in the Middle East teaching conflict resolution skills to adolescents in Palestine, Israel, and elsewhere, and I admire them greatly. The suffering they tell me of firsthand, on all "sides," is beyond my imagining. Hyperbole such as the statement above doesn't help, it hinders. That's all I'm saying.

338 Lynn B.  Fri, May 29, 2009 9:33:30pm

re: #337 ShanghaiEd

Ok. I hear you. I know there are some Israelis who teach their kids to hate. I think we may have had one on this thread. And there are some palestinian arabs who don't (but they don't dare to publicize that). But institutionally and culturally, regardless of what your friends may tell you, there is an absolute trend on each side and a remarkable contrast. And it's documented.

And, Ed, there is no "Palestine." Some day, there may be. But for the past 2,000 years that's just been a name, assigned by the Romans with the intent of insulting the Jews they had conquered, to an amorphous area of land with ever-shifting boundaries that, until 1948, was always the "possession" of one absentee landlord or another.

339 jordash1212  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:21:01am

He's a pragmatist. I think deep down inside he understands that his ideals are going to have to be surrendered. Of course it would be nice to see extremism disappear. Of course it would be nice to see Israel be able to exist as it is without having to make concessions. But he knows, and I think most people do know, that some things are going to have to be surrendered. For the Palestinians it's going to have to be the acceptance of a Jewish state and not reversing to 1967 boundaries. For the Israelis it's going to mean halting settlements and sharing Jerusalem. It's not ideal, but it's realistic. Israel will not find peace through stubbornness and violence. This dismays me, though I am completely in favor of Israeli self-defense. What will ultimately please me is seeing peace in Israel.

340 Ben F  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:09:14am

I read this the exact opposite way from you, Charles.

Sitting next to Netanyahu, Obama said: Settlements have to be stopped in order for us to move forward. Have to be stopped. And he said the same thing seated next to Abbas: In my conversations with Prime Minister Netanyahu I was very clear about the need to stop the settlements. Compare this to Obama's "very important to continue to make progress in reducing" pablum, and his failure to utter the phrase "Jewish state" in Abass's presence. That is the real message; hard demands on Israel, soft words to Abbas.

Abbas's statements at this event have received very little play in the press, perhaps because they do not fit the "blame it all on Israel" narrative. One, whereas Netanyahu insisted in his statement following his meetings with Obama that "there will have to be compromises by Israelis and Palestinians alike," Abbas sat next to Obama and flatly rejected such a notion, reiterating his regime's absolute intransigence:

We have shared some ideas with the President, but all of them basically are embodied in the road map and the Arab League Initiative, without any change, without any modification.

Abbas also blew off Obama's statement the previous week that "the other Arab states have to be more supportive and be bolder in seeking potential normalization with Israel":

Mr. President, I believe that the entire Arab world and the Islamic world, they are all committed to peace. We've seen that through the Arab League Peace Initiative that simply talks about land for peace as a principle. I believe that if the Israelis would withdraw from all occupied Palestinian, Syrian, and Lebanese land, the Arab world will be ready to have normal relationships with the state of Israel.

No, Charles. The words you quote were purely for domestic consumption, and even those words were obscenely weak and watered down. The bottom line is that Abbas did not so much as hint at the possibility of giving ground, and Obama did not challenge Abbas in any way whatsoever. We are in the same place in this administration as we were in the previous one: a world where the US makes no demands of Abbas because he is in no position to deliver on anything, so the US instead will make impossible demands on Israel, the better to be able to point the figure at Israel when progress fails to materialize.

341 Ben F  Sat, May 30, 2009 6:29:16am

Another very significant but little-mentioned point is that Obama signaled at the press conference that his administration would accept a coalition government that included Hamas even if Hamas itself were to retain its implacable enmity towards Israel, Zionism, and Jews generally:

One thing that I didn’t mention earlier that I want to say I very much appreciate is that President Abbas I think has been under enormous pressure to bring about some sort of unity government and to negotiate with Hamas. And I am very impressed and appreciative of President Abbas's willingness to steadfastly insist that any unity government would have to recognize the principles that have been laid by the Quartet.

The Quartet's principles, it is important to note, say nothing whatsoever about a Jewish state.

342 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 30, 2009 11:10:47am

re: #340 Ben F

I read this the exact opposite way from you, Charles.

I've learned now that it doesn't matter what I write, or how I qualify my opinions, there will always be people who, as soon as I write anything even remotely positive about Obama, will yell at me about it.

Try reading what I wrote here before lecturing me on Obama's statements about the settlements.

343 doggunit  Sat, May 30, 2009 2:58:21pm

Its too bad that the debate is defined in leftist terms like hate speech instead of the individual right to free speech.

There is no such speech freedom as what goes on in state sponsored media in the PA or other predominantly Muslim nations. The freedom of speech does not include the right to threaten the initiation of violence. Much less threaten the destruction of the freely formed state of Israel.

Obama is right to address the threatening Muslim propaganda rather than what Bush did by using platitudes to keep from offending anybody in the Muslim world. Maybe Obama might do something more concrete and cut off taxpayer funds now to the countries that print this stuff in their state controlled/owned media. Or maybe pigs will fly.

344 Ben F  Sun, May 31, 2009 8:44:37pm

Re: #342
1) Stating my disagreement is not lecturing.

2) I am aware of what you have written in the linked piece and elsewhere. My point is that when Obama said that it was important that the Arab states take political steps building off of the Arab initiative, Abbas dismissed the notion that the Arab states need to be any more supportive of a two-state solution than they already are, and he went on to reiterate that Israel must cave to all Palestinian and Syrian demands before it can expect normalization.

Obama also elected not to "embarrass" Abbas by mentioning that normalization includes recognizing the existence of a Jewish people and the legitimacy of that people's national aspirations to a sovereign state.

Abbas was given a free pass, and IMO he is going to continue to receive a free pass from the Obama Administration notwithstanding a throw-away line about the "importance" of "continuing to reduce" incitement (as opposed to Israel's "need" to "stop" the "settlements").


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