Brits Foil Far Right Plot to Bomb Mosques

World • Views: 2,145

It hasn’t gotten much notice in US media, but last week British police foiled an international plot by far right groups to smuggle weapons into Britain and launch attacks on mosques.

AN ALLEGED Neo Nazi plot to flood Britain with guns and explosives has been foiled by anti terror police set up to combat al-Qaeda.

Detectives recovered pipe bombs and rocket launchers after an investigation which showed the “growing threat” of the far right, a senior officer revealed. Two men have been charged and further suspects identified in Europe, Australia and New Zealand, West Yorkshire chief constable Sir Norman Bettison said.

The case was handled by the North East Regional Counter Terrorism Unit, based in Leeds, where the 7/7 bombers plotted their suicide attacks.

Senior counter terrorism sources told the Mirror the Leeds CTU is currently investigating “just as many” far right plots as al-Qaeda conspiracies.

More details in the Daily Mail: Far-Right extremists ‘are plotting spectacular terrorist attack in UK’.

Last weekend it was revealed that a network of suspected extremists with access to 300 weapons and 80 bombs has been uncovered by counter- terrorism detectives.

Thirty-two people were questioned by police and 22 properties were raided over an alleged plot to bomb mosques.

It was the biggest terrorist arms haul since the IRA mainland bombings in the 1990s.

Sir Norman Bettison, the chief constable of West Yorkshire, said: ‘The big bad wolf is still the Al-Qaeda threat.

‘But my people are knocking over right-wing extremists quite regularly. We are interdicting it so that it doesn’t first emerge into the public eye out of a critical incident like an explosion.’

Jump to bottom

358 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:11:44am

Because nothing proves the worth of a cause like the indiscrimate killing of innocent civilians.

Scum

2 laZardo  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:11:48am

I hate Leeds Neo-Nazis.

3 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:12:14am

rocket launcher?....expect these guys to double down...this won't stop them...law enforcement is their last ditch hope over there...good luck

4 Shug  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:12:38am

Jeppo was offended

5 VioletTiger  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:12:59am

THE CRAZY is a circle. Whether you approach it from the right or the left, it's still CRAZY.

6 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:14:25am
Last weekend it was revealed that a network of suspected extremists with access to 300 weapons and 80 bombs has been uncovered by counter- terrorism detectives.


80 bombs is a serious threat. I'm curious about the 300 weapons; does this include knives, clubs, bras knuckles etc? If this is a cache of guns it's quite remarkable.
7/7 was accomplished with 5-6 bombs. 80 is definitely a serious escalation.

7 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:15:20am

these two opposing cultures hate each other...or enough of them do to create mayhem on a large scale....a mosque will get knocked over and thousands will rampage...I have a very bad vibe about this

8 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:15:26am

I have no use for extremists ... period.

9 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:15:55am
10 quiet man  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:16:27am

Like that is really going to help dig the world out of the hole.

Good for the Brits...and I am thankful we have seen so very little of that here..

11 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:16:43am

So.......will the Brits address the 'root cause' of this?

12 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:16:48am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

80 bombs is a serious threat. I'm curious about the 300 weapons; does this include knives, clubs, bras knuckles etc? If this is a cache of guns it's quite remarkable.
7/7 was accomplished with 5-6 bombs. 80 is definitely a serious escalation.

Rather remarkable indeed if guns in Britian where such things are supposed to be outlawed. Strike up another for gun control on that one.

13 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:17:13am

re: #11 Fenway_Nation

forgot the sarc tag
/

14 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:17:35am

further suspects identified in Europe, Australia and New Zealand, West Yorkshire chief constable Sir Norman Bettison said

Why all the fuss? Soccer holligans need something to do in between seasons!

MAJOR ///////////////// BTW

15 Gearhead  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:18:01am

...re: #6 Killgore Trout

...bras knuckles...

Victoria's other secret?

16 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:18:09am

The nazis are trying to provoke confrontation. They want to fight, they want to let God sort them out- if you get my drift.

Nasty people. I'm glad they were stopped.

17 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:18:21am

Wow, looks like thing are going to get quite nasty over there.

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:18:33am

re: #15 Gearhead

Heh. PIMF

19 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:19:00am

What makes these guys "far-right?" Last time I checked the Nazis where not "far-right."

Last time I checked the "right" was for limited government and individual responsibility. Nazis and Neo-Nazis are for killing minorities, and establishing white dominance. I don't see the connection.

20 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:19:22am

With the way the hooligans will pounce on a Spanish soccer fan, the shock is that it took this long....

21 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:19:48am

re: #14 sattv4u2

further suspects identified in Europe, Australia and New Zealand, West Yorkshire chief constable Sir Norman Bettison said

Why all the fuss? Soccer holligans need something to do in between seasons!

MAJOR ///////////////// BTW


welcome back Sat. the peeps were asking for you last night

22 Gearhead  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:20:01am

And opting for the Islamist terrorists' tactics accomplishes what?

More hate ain't the answer.

23 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:20:36am

re: #20 ointmentfly

With the way the hooligans will pounce on a Spanish soccer fan, the shock is that it took this long....

SPANISH fans! Hell, a Man U hooligan will pounce on a NON Man U English fan !

24 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:21:00am

re: #19 tster

Nationalism is right-wing.

25 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:21:10am

re: #21 _RememberTonyC

welcome back Sat. the peeps were asking for you last night

Heya TC... Vacation time at the beach/ golfing the last 2+ weeks

26 laZardo  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:21:24am

re: #23 sattv4u2

SPANISH fans! Hell, a Man U hooligan will pounce on a NON Man U English fan !

God help that fan if he's with Chelsea.

27 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:21:31am
28 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:21:35am

re: #22 Gearhead

And opting for the Islamist terrorists' tactics accomplishes what?

More hate ain't the answer.

re read #16....somebody wants to get it on and push this thing to a resolution...

29 J.S.  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:22:11am

thank G-d the plot was foiled...(I'm wondering if the neo-nazi attack was timed to correspond to the July 7, 2005 bombings? Today marks the memorial of that event)

30 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:22:31am

re: #19 tster

Furthermore, Nazis were fascists. Fascism is about the controlling of social aspects of people's lives (think Hitler Youth). Not exactly a "right-wing" idea.

31 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:22:35am

re: #23 sattv4u2

SPANISH fans! Hell, a Man U hooligan will pounce on a NON Man U English fan !

A spaniard might get an extra boot for looking Moorish....

32 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:23:25am

re: #25 sattv4u2

Heya TC... Vacation time at the beach/ golfing the last 2+ weeks

good for you, Dawg. My vaca starts next Thursday ... I can't wait!

33 laZardo  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:23:25am

1:23 AM and I'm gonna head to bed. Cheers!

34 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:23:43am

re: #31 ointmentfly

A spaniard might get an extra boot for looking Moorish....

Michael Moorish? Fat and obnoxious?

35 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #27 Iron Fist

I wouldn't be surprised if the firearms seized came from the former Yugoslavia or Soviet Bloc countries...

36 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:24:08am

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

good for you, Dawg. My vaca starts next Thursday ... I can't wait!

StayCation, or going somewhere?

37 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:24:24am

re: #24 Sharmuta

Stalin used nationalism extensively and I don't think anyone called him right-wing. Just because American liberals hate America doesn't make nationalism a right-wing idea.

38 Wishbone  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:24:27am

All the bloody footie experts out I see...........

39 turn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:24:29am

re: #28 albusteve

re read #16....somebody wants to get it on and push this thing to a resolution...

I didn't understand sharms god drift, can either of you explain that to turn?

40 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:24:43am
41 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:25:03am

Bad crazy begets bad crazy. And lots of people will be caught in the crossfire. Glad that British law enforcement stopped this plot cold. I have no doubt that had these attacks been successful, they would have been used by the jihadis as self-fulfilling proof to continue their jihad against the West.

They would have used the carnage from these attacks to justify their own violence (even though they'll use anything real or imagined to justify murder).

42 Scion9  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:25:15am

re: #30 tster

Furthermore, Nazis were fascists. Fascism is about the controlling of social aspects of people's lives (think Hitler Youth). Not exactly a "right-wing" idea.

Do you think that the Absolutist Monarchies of Old Europe that did this very thing were right-wing?

43 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:25:38am

re: #36 sattv4u2

StayCation, or going somewhere?

5 day cruise to Bermuda ... with no kids! Sun, alcohol, a good book, some good nook, and the casino at night! I just hope the weather is nice and mellow.

44 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:26:35am

Parody? I can't tell....
'BNP Babes' - scarier than thugs

You may not find their brand of humour palatable, and a number of you - quite fairly - are going to want to look away now.

But I think it’s worth commenting briefly on the latest post on the Viceland Blog – Babes of the BNP.

They’ve sought out a number of 'atypical' BNP supporters to interview. Atypical in as much as this lot don’t have crewcuts and tattoos but dyed, poker straight hair and plenty of slap.

The blog prints a provocative photo of each girl beside an interview with them. A typical exchange goes along the lines of this, with Rebecca Edwards from Manchester (pictured – with oh so subtle symbolism - partly veiled in the British flag):

45 VioletTiger  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:26:42am

After reading the articles I am surprised that this is the first we are hearing about this. Apparently, our media finds MJ and the One too important to waste time on something like a foiled terrorist plot. The media does a great job of feeding the sheeple only what they want them to know.

46 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:26:42am

there is no telling how much of a setback these busts are...maybe next time they will move faster than LE before they can be compromised....they lost this round, but they must know what they are doing to get as far as they did...rocket launchers seems really significant to me

47 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:26:47am

re: #43 _RememberTonyC

5 day cruise to Bermuda ... with no kids! Sun, alcohol, a good book, some good nook, and the casino at night! I just hope the weather is nice and mellow.

cool,., and re: the weather. Its never rained on me at the blackjack tables!

48 turn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:27:03am

re: #43 _RememberTonyC

5 day cruise to Bermuda ... with no kids! Sun, alcohol, a good book, some good nook, and the casino at night! I just hope the weather is nice and mellow.

nook or nooky there tony?

49 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:27:22am

Here we go again with the futile attempts to deny that these people are "far right."

Every time it comes up, like clockwork, the same arguments.

50 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:27:32am

re: #39 turn

I didn't understand sharms god drift, can either of you explain that to turn?

IIRC, Saladin said the same thing when he ordered the sacking of a city. His commanders asked, should we just kill the enemy's soldiers? Saladin said, no, kill everyone. God will sort them out.

51 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:27:35am
52 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:27:53am

re: #30 tster

Fascists are nationalists. That's right wing. They allowed for both government control as well as autonomy. You're really showing your ignorance of fascism with these comments.

53 Kragar  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:28:03am

re: #27 Iron Fist

If they really had rocket launchers then I'd hazard a guess that they wouldn't find guns to be much of a problem to come by. Look for the Obama Administration to spin it that these guns came from America, so we need more gun control here (hey, it's what they said about the drug cartels in Mexico).

Its suprising they dont seem to be mentioning how many guns we've given the Mexcian government to fight the cartels have ended up in cartel hands. Yup, big suprise there.

/

54 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:28:06am

re: #42 Scion9

Do you think that the Absolutist Monarchies of Old Europe that did this very thing were right-wing?

It's hard to classify government from before the modern era as "right-wing" or "left-wing" in today's terms. Many of those monarchies could be considered left-wing for their total control over economic matters, and the lords control over the lives of the people that lived on their lands.

55 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:28:26am

re: #48 turn

nook or nooky there tony?

yes ...

56 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:29:04am

re: #52 Sharmuta

Fascists are nationalists. That's right wing. They allowed for both government control as well as autonomy. You're really showing your ignorance of fascism with these comments.

FTFY

I'm a cut to the chase, bottom line kinda guy !

57 turn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:29:20am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IIRC, Saladin said the same thing when he ordered the sacking of a city. His commanders asked, should we just kill the enemy's soldiers? Saladin said, no, kill everyone. God will sort them out.

Thanks pbmb, no wonder I didn't get it. I'm way weak on religious history.

58 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #52 Sharmuta

Like I said, nationalism is not "right-wing."

Napoleon, Stalin, FDR, Bush. All nationalists, not all right-wing.

59 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #46 albusteve

there is no telling how much of a setback these busts are...maybe next time they will move faster than LE before they can be compromised....they lost this round, but they must know what they are doing to get as far as they did...rocket launchers seems really significant to me

60 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IIRC, Saladin said the same thing when he ordered the sacking of a city. His commanders asked, should we just kill the enemy's soldiers? Saladin said, no, kill everyone. God will sort them out.

It's a phrase that seems to pop up a lot in history. I believe a pope or bishop said the same thing in France dealing with a gnostic heresy.

/can't remember the date or the actual name of the gnostics. was southern France though.

61 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:30:41am

re: #51 Iron Fist

Oh yes....and just to make things more interesteing, the Mexican Army is looking to replace their G3 rifles with a newer, locally manufactured version of an H&K rifle (forgot the designation, but I think it's name is 'Fire serpent' in Aztec).

Now imagine all of the G3s that are supposed to be disposed of turn up missing...somehow.

62 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:30:44am

re: #58 tster

Like I said, nationalism is not "right-wing."

Napoleon, Stalin, FDR, Bush. All nationalists, not all right-wing.



no , they weren't!

63 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:31:06am
Detectives recovered pipe bombs and rocket launchers

Do these two items go together, or did they recover what amounts to (ahem) potato guns?

I don't - I admit - picture pipe bombs (home-made, generally, and a dreadful risk to the fingers and eyebrows) and rocket launchers (I admit think of actual machine-made, reliable weaponry) in the same place and organization.

64 Rednek  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:31:28am
65 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:31:37am

re: #49 Charles

Here we go again with the futile attempts to deny that these people are "far right."

Every time it comes up, like clockwork, the same arguments.

To them, ALL members of the Right are clean and pure as the driven snow.

/or was that "snowjob"? ... I forget

66 Walk Not So Softly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:31:53am

re: #24 Sharmuta

Nationalism is right-wing.

So now you're gunna tell us the Chinese are right-wing?

[Link: www.cfr.org...]

67 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:32:05am

re: #62 sattv4u2

no , they weren't!

Are you saying Napolean, Stalin and FDR were not nationalists?

68 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:32:19am

re: #57 turn

Thanks pbmb, no wonder I didn't get it. I'm way weak on religious history.

Um...I know I'm missing some context, but I do believe that's from the Albigensian Crusade, in the Languedoc, about 1320s. Said by a Bishop.

69 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #57 turn

Thanks pbmb, no wonder I didn't get it. I'm way weak on religious history.

It's rather obscure.

70 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:32:54am

re: #63 Dianna

Won't look for it here at work, but I did see a document sold in England that detailed how to make a SMG from plumbing supplies.

71 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:33:24am

re: #60 BlueCanuck

It's a phrase that seems to pop up a lot in history. I believe a pope or bishop said the same thing in France dealing with a gnostic heresy.

/can't remember the date or the actual name of the gnostics. was southern France though.

The Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars. Who may - or may not - have been related to the Bulgar heresy.

72 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:33:35am

re: #63 Dianna

Do these two items go together, or did they recover what amounts to (ahem) potato guns?

I don't - I admit - picture pipe bombs (home-made, generally, and a dreadful risk to the fingers and eyebrows) and rocket launchers (I admit think of actual machine-made, reliable weaponry) in the same place and organization.

I presume the rocket launchers are RPGs....imagine a bunch of Nazis driving around with these things in the back seat...they kill people very effectively

73 J.S.  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:33:46am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I've read that the saying came from Arnuad-Amalric (under Pope Innocent II) who commanded a Crusader army in 1209. Arnuad-amalric murdered Frenchmen while pursuing alleged heretics in Beziers...When Crusaders asked Arnuad-Amalric who they should kill, Arnuad-Amalric responded: "Kill them all! G-d will recognize his own."

74 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:34:21am

re: #71 Dianna

Thank you. I do have an extensive mental database for obscure facts, sometimes though it doesn't work well.

75 turn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:34:39am

re: #69 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Well that explains why Dianna knew it! Thanks Dianna, dang you guys are so well read it's amazing.

76 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:34:40am

re: #60 BlueCanuck

It's a phrase that seems to pop up a lot in history. I believe a pope or bishop said the same thing in France dealing with a gnostic heresy.

/can't remember the date or the actual name of the gnostics. was southern France though.

I don't doubt it.
It's kind of a generic concept.

77 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:34:43am

re: #37 tster

Fascism is a bad mix of the worst aspects of right and left blended together to create one nasty little ideology. But if you don't think there are people on the right who want to dictate to you what you can and can't do with yourself, then Buddy- I have some reading for you. These fascist use nationalism and other right-wing principles to make you think they're on your side, when nothing could be further from the truth. They're not about the rule of law, or the Constitution.

78 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:34:48am

I guess it just wasn't as important as wristbands for MJ's non-funeral.

79 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:35:00am
80 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:35:14am

re: #70 BlueCanuck

Won't look for it here at work, but I did see a document sold in England that detailed how to make a SMG from plumbing supplies.

Well, I admit that pvc makes constructing a powerful potato gun much, much easier.

81 Kragar  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:35:56am

re: #64 Rednek

Gore Goes Godwin

I think the more likely question future adults will be asking is how did so many people fall for Al Gore's line of shit.

82 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:36:26am

re: #72 albusteve

I presume the rocket launchers are RPGs....imagine a bunch of Nazis driving around with these things in the back seat...they kill people very effectively

It doesn't please me, either. One must wonder - particularly - where these evil-minded idiots got their hands on them.

83 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:36:36am

re: #71 Dianna

The Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars. Who may - or may not - have been related to the Bulgar heresy.

Who may or may not have been carrying the bloodline of Jesus... oops, Davinci attack...
/

84 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:36:49am

re: #67 tster

Are you saying Napolean, Stalin and FDR were not nationalists?

Not in the sense of what the term refers to in the modern era. Also, in the case of FDR and Stalin, not in comparison to Hitler of the same era

85 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:37:37am

re: #73 J.S.

I've read that the saying came from Arnuad-Amalric (under Pope Innocent II) who commanded a Crusader army in 1209. Arnuad-amalric murdered Frenchmen while pursuing alleged heretics in Beziers...When Crusaders asked Arnuad-Amalric who they should kill, Arnuad-Amalric responded: "Kill them all! G-d will recognize his own."

Quite correct.

and I'm a century out, because I'm operating on my own without looking anything up.

86 Scion9  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:37:37am

re: #60 BlueCanuck

Yes, during the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th century. Roughly, "Kill them all! God will know his own." Typically attributed to Arnaud Amalric, although he denied it to the Pope.

87 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:37:58am

re: #82 Dianna

It doesn't please me, either. One must wonder - particularly - where these evil-minded idiots got their hands on them.

there are millions of them all over the world...and relatively cheap

88 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:38:13am

re: #64 Rednek

Gore Goes Godwin

Mr Gore admitted that it was difficult to persuade the public that the threat from climate change was as urgent as the threat from Nazi Germany.

This is a fundamentally stupid man. And he also gives proof to the fact that there is a God as evidenced by Florida in 2000. Pestilence, plague...even fire and brimstone are acceptable but apparently He drew a line at allowing this asshat to become President.
/

89 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:38:31am

re: #75 turn

Well that explains why Dianna knew it! Thanks Dianna, dang you guys are so well read it's amazing.

Me! ... heh ... My head's spinning from the historical details thrown at us by Dianna and J.S.

90 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:38:33am
91 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:38:45am

re: #86 Scion9

Yes, during the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th century. Roughly, "Kill them all! God will know his own." Typically attributed to Arnaud Amalric, although he denied it to the Pope.

It's not nice to lie to the pope.

92 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:38:59am

re: #77 Sharmuta

That doesn't prove the point that "Nazi/Neo-Nazi = far-right" as the article seems to imply.

This article would be much more accurate (correct too) if you replaced every instance of "far-right" with "Neo-Nazi."

93 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:38:59am

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Who may or may not have been carrying the bloodline of Jesus... oops, Davinci attack...
/

Even Holy Blood, Holy Grail had better sense than to drag the Cathars in. Mostly because the Cathars were deeply opposed to the whole notion (at least in the abstract) of reproduction.

94 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:39:43am

re: #82 Dianna

It doesn't please me, either. One must wonder - particularly - where these evil-minded idiots got their hands on them.

Given the sheer amount of weaponry the Chinese and Russians have pumped in the SW Asia over the decades, I doubt it would be difficult especially given the number of British military assets in the area these days.

95 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:40:00am

Yet the British government is not secretly, or not so secretly, funding these groups.

The British government is not providing cover.

They are not saying one thing in Latin, and another in English.

British school textbooks don't encourage or spread their beliefs.

The British government will use all means to stop them and arrest them, not making deals that it's ok if they'd just play around elsewhere.

The EU as a whole is not making excuses, justifying or playing the moral equivalence game.

It is not British culture.

There is no religious obligation in Britain to fund these groups.

This is not a case of "See? Everyone has them."

What's important is what the societies in which these terror groups are spawned do about it.

They encourage, nurture and export it.

We outcast, arrest and imprison. Really imprison, not the revolving door when the world isn't looking.

96 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:40:22am

re: #80 Dianna

Well, I admit that pvc makes constructing a powerful potato gun much, much easier.

OT - are you familiar with the big compressed-air-driven pumpkin cannons?

97 Rednek  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:40:25am

Hey, cool!

VLC 1.0.0 released

98 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:41:09am

does anyone remember Hillary R. Clinton, the Secretary of State? Why is our chief diplomat not in Russia with the boss?

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Could it be that the boss has no use for her take on things? And if that is the case, is it wise for every foreign policy move to be made by a single individual? Don't they have a word for that sort of behavior?

99 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:41:15am

re: #88 LGoPs

This is a fundamentally stupid man. And he also gives proof to the fact that there is a God as evidenced by Florida in 2000. Pestilence, plague...even fire and brimstone are acceptable but apparently He drew a line at allowing this asshat to become President.
/

One of the biggest myths in American politics is that Al Gore is intelligent.

100 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:41:30am

re: #84 sattv4u2

Not in the sense of what the term refers to in the modern era. Also, in the case of FDR and Stalin, not in comparison to Hitler of the same era

Ah..."Socialism in One Country"?

101 J.S.  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:41:31am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(actually, I'm wondering if that was ever attributed to Saladin -- Saladin had a reputation for being gracious in battle/victory...didn't actually go on murderous sprees, like the Crusaders...)

102 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:41:39am

re: #92 tster

That doesn't prove the point that "Nazi/Neo-Nazi = far-right" as the article seems to imply.

This article would be much more accurate (correct too) if you replaced every instance of "far-right" with "Neo-Nazi."

{sigh}

Are the neo nazis in the USA (skin heads, KKK, etc) far right wingers, or just "nationalists"?

103 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:01am

re: #93 Dianna

Even Holy Blood, Holy Grail had better sense than to drag the Cathars in. Mostly because the Cathars were deeply opposed to the whole notion (at least in the abstract) of reproduction.

Oh, the Cathars were thrown into that book, not in regards to carrying the blood line, but as far as the treasue they "left" with during the siege of Montserrat was the knowledge of the bloodline.

Of course, this is junk history.

104 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:04am

re: #96 pre-Boomer Marine brat

OT - are you familiar with the big compressed-air-driven pumpkin cannons?

I haven't built one. I've read some interesting items about them, though.

105 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:09am

re: #90 Iron Fist

I'd never heard about Saladin saying that. Where I thought it came from was during the inquisition. They locked up a "heretical" church and were told to set it on fire (with all the heretics inside). When someone objected, saying that there were good Christians in there too, the priest in charge said "Burn them all. God will know his own."

I saw that on a historical web site, and THINK it was attributed to Saladin, but might have been another Muslim general.

106 Scion9  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:14am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

Well, we don't know the truth of the matter. According to Amalric's translated correspondence in the link he claimed the entire castle raised arms against his Crusaders, rather than accepting liberation from their Cathar masters, implicating the entire lot as heretics. He didn't deny having everyone killed, just that there was ever a question as how to sort out the Catholics. According to him, there were no Catholics.

107 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:28am

re: #67 tster

Are you saying Napolean, Stalin and FDR were not nationalists?

Stalin wasn't a nationalist. He was promoting the soviet state- internationalism.

108 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:33am

re: #101 J.S.

(actually, I'm wondering if that was ever attributed to Saladin -- Saladin had a reputation for being gracious in battle/victory...didn't actually go on murderous sprees, like the Crusaders...)

Saladin fought hard, but it was Richard I who slaughtered prisoners.

109 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:43:07am

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Parody? I can't tell....
'BNP Babes' - scarier than thugs

You may not find their brand of humour palatable, and a number of you - quite fairly - are going to want to look away now.

Vice: How old are you?
Helen: 19. Wait, no, 18. 19 next month.

ROFLMAO!

110 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:43:20am
111 turn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:43:49am

re: #73 J.S.

re: #80 Dianna

re: #89 pre-Boomer Marine brat

re: #90 Iron Fist

Jeeze everybody but turn got it. That's it, I'm going back to reading my Reader's Digest.
/
The things I learn here ... thanks guys.

112 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:13am

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is just plain junk. Based upon some forged documents that were planted in Frances historical archives. All the authors did after that was play the conspiracy connection game. A good read, if you like fiction....

113 kansas  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:23am

OT
Mark Belling reading this now:
I Hate You Sarah Palin
[Link: article.nationalreview.com...]

114 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #99 Son of the Black Dog

One of the biggest myths in American politics is that Al Gore is intelligent.

The sad truth is that he is extremely intelligent compared to his constituency, which is why the democrat party even exists.

115 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #106 Scion9

Well, we don't know the truth of the matter. According to Amalric's translated correspondence in the link he claimed the entire castle raised arms against his Crusaders, rather than accepting liberation from their Cathar masters, implicating the entire lot as heretics. He didn't deny having everyone killed, just that there was ever a question as how to sort out the Catholics. According to him, there were no Catholics.

I was only making a little joke, I wasn't getting into the fact or lack of facts on the incident.

116 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:44am

re: #101 J.S.

(actually, I'm wondering if that was ever attributed to Saladin -- Saladin had a reputation for being gracious in battle/victory...didn't actually go on murderous sprees, like the Crusaders...)

Yeah. I'm no expert on him, by any stretch, but I've heard the same.

My memory is probably faulty.

117 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:49am

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Oh, the Cathars were thrown into that book, not in regards to carrying the blood line, but as far as the treasue they "left" with during the siege of Montserrat was the knowledge of the bloodline.

Of course, this is junk history.

there is much we don't know about such things...if Bigfoot can make the dodge why couldn't the Templars?....loosen up

118 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:44:51am

re: #102 sattv4u2

{sigh}

Are the neo nazis in the USA (skin heads, KKK, etc) far right wingers, or just "nationalists"?

It's not your economic beliefs or your preference for big/small government that makes you a neo-nazi. It's racism, fear, and hatred. None of these are attributes of the right or left.

119 KingKenrod  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:45:01am

From the first article:

There are fears that ex BNP members are turning to US-style violent white supremacism which could wreck efforts to win Muslim hearts and minds.

Not to mention kill a few people.

It's kind of amusing for the writer of this article to sort of blame the US for inventing white nationalist violence. Sorry, Europe, you sort of wrote the book on that one.

120 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:45:18am

re: #90 Iron Fist

I'd never heard about Saladin saying that. Where I thought it came from was during the inquisition. They locked up a "heretical" church and were told to set it on fire (with all the heretics inside). When someone objected, saying that there were good Christians in there too, the priest in charge said "Burn them all. God will know his own."

Burning churches, synagogues and barns full of enemies of whatever stripe wasn't terribly uncommon. The first recorded - and objected to - use of the phrase was 1209, as cited earlier.

It was objected to, very seriously.

121 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:46:02am

re: #107 Sharmuta

Stalin wasn't a nationalist. He was promoting the soviet state- internationalism.

Very arguable, Sharm. Very, very, very arguable.

122 teleskiguy  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:46:20am

The U.S. media (especially Fox News) won't report this because it will once again validate that Department of Homeland Security's report on the up-tick in right-wing extremism. Oh, neo-nazi's are trying to blow up mosques in Britain and Scott Roeder is communicating with extremists from his jail cell in Wichita calling for more violence. Pay no attention to any of this, there's no problem with the right-wing anywhere!

Keep hittin' 'em Charles!

123 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:46:24am

re: #104 Dianna

I haven't built one. I've read some interesting items about them, though.

JIC -- the link to the annual competition.
(Sounds like you may already have it.)

124 Cheesehead  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:46:56am

re: #92 tster

That doesn't prove the point that "Nazi/Neo-Nazi = far-right" as the article seems to imply.

This article would be much more accurate (correct too) if you replaced every instance of "far-right" with "Neo-Nazi."


Maybe we could call them "Right-wing-nazi-commie-socialist-libertarian-Paulians". Make everybody happy. LOL

125 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:46:56am

re: #117 albusteve

there is much we don't know about such things...if Bigfoot can make the dodge why couldn't the Templars?....loosen up

Nope! No one should ever loosen up on dangerous, woolly-minded idiocy, particularly when history is concerned.

126 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:46:56am

re: #110 Iron Fist

Sten guns are scary. The only safe way to carry one is unloaded. Great room clearing weapons though. Slide in a magazine and throw it in. If the sear is loose enough the impact will set it off and won't stop until the magazine is empty. I think the Canadian army got rid of them when we upgraded our weapons in the late 80's. Fun to fire on the range though.

127 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:47:05am

re: #118 tster

It's not your economic beliefs or your preference for big/small government that makes you a neo-nazi. It's racism, fear, and hatred. None of these are attributes of the right or left.

nice dodge, but please answer the question.. Where on the political spectrum do you place those groups (because those groups DO have political policies) ?

128 Rancher  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:47:21am
Senior counter terrorism sources told the Mirror the Leeds CTU is currently investigating “just as many” far right plots as al-Qaeda conspiracies.


Just as many? I find that hard to believe.

129 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:47:46am

re: #112 BlueCanuck

"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is just plain junk. Based upon some forged documents that were planted in Frances historical archives. All the authors did after that was play the conspiracy connection game. A good read, if you like fiction....

One of the best junk history books ever written. Much better than any Dan Brown stuff. I am well aware of the whole "Rennes" industry. I had a couple of hundred books on the subject at one time, many in French.

130 KingKenrod  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:47:51am

re: #98 _RememberTonyC

does anyone remember Hillary R. Clinton, the Secretary of State? Why is our chief diplomat not in Russia with the boss?

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Could it be that the boss has no use for her take on things? And if that is the case, is it wise for every foreign policy move to be made by a single individual? Don't they have a word for that sort of behavior?

She's waiting for someone to kiss her boo-boo. Maybe Zelaya can do it?

131 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:48:07am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat
re: #57 turn
re: #90 Iron Fist

That particular phrase has been attributed to many sources: the Spanish Inquisition, & both the French & Mulsims during the Crusades in the Holy lands and others:

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet."

This comes from a perfectly genuine mediaeval anecdote. In 1209, during the "Albigensian Crusade" against the Cathar heresy in Southern France, the forces of Orthodox Catholicism had been besieging the city of Beziers, defended by the Cathar heretics, for some time. Finally they breached the walls of the city and prepared to storm it. The commander of the crusade, Simon de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, pointed out that not everybody in the city was a heretic, some of them wer good Catholics, so how should they treat the inhabitants when they captured the city? A monk who was actually present at the siege recorded the answer of the Papal Legate to the Crusaders, Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, as "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." ) So the Crusaders followed his advice and killed everybody they could find in Beziers.
: : : : : : : : : The Abbot presumably said it in everyday French, and the account we have is in Latin, but there seems no reason to doubt that he really did give that advice.

132 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:48:58am

re: #92 tster

That doesn't prove the point that "Nazi/Neo-Nazi = far-right" as the article seems to imply.

This article would be much more accurate (correct too) if you replaced every instance of "far-right" with "Neo-Nazi."

Please- by all means- tell me where nationalism falls on the far left. Which ideology allows for private property- communism or fascism?

Just because all you see is fascists using the strong arm of government like the left wants to do, doesn't mean they are both of the left. You are looking at the surface similarities. There's more to it than that. If you really want to understand- that's great. Start by putting down the copy of Fascism for Dummies, and read some real political science.

133 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:49:16am

re: #125 Dianna

Nope! No one should ever loosen up on dangerous, woolly-minded idiocy, particularly when history is concerned.

Except where Neal Stephenson or Umberto Eco is concerned. But, then again, they publish under the rubicon of fiction, not fact.

134 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:49:21am

re: #125 Dianna

Nope! No one should ever loosen up on dangerous, woolly-minded idiocy, particularly when history is concerned.

are you calling Bigfoot wooly minded?....

135 turn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:49:31am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

I was only making a little joke, I wasn't getting into the fact or lack of facts on the incident.

Hey Walter, if it's any consolation turn knew it was only a joke. Man do we have some LGF historians or what?

136 Spartacus50  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:49:45am

For some reason, I find this story to be rather suspicious. I think this story has the impression of being "sexed-up".

137 Rancher  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:49:59am

re: #127 sattv4u2

nice dodge, but please answer the question.. Where on the political spectrum do you place those groups (because those groups DO have political policies) ?

Socialists. They are not for individual rights, religious freedom, or any other conservative values that I know of.

138 KingKenrod  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:50:06am

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

One of the best junk history books ever written. Much better than any Dan Brown stuff. I am well aware of the whole "Rennes" industry. I had a couple of hundred books on the subject at one time, many in French.


I read that book when I was a teenager. I found it fascinating, and it sort of stoked my interest in history in general. I've since learned it's a bunch of hooey, but my love of history remains.

139 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:50:09am

re: #136 Spartacus50

For some reason, I find this story to be rather suspicious. I think this story has the impression of being "sexed-up".

How so, and to what end?

140 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:50:38am

re: #122 teleskiguy

Right...just like the US media ignored the murder of Dr. Tiller and focused on the shooting spree at the Army Recruting office in Little Rock.

141 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:50:46am

re: #136 Spartacus50

For some reason, I find this story to be rather suspicious. I think this story has the impression of being "sexed-up".

The part that should scare us is if it's been watered down.

142 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:51:11am
143 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:51:24am

If Hitler was a Nationalist, the Nazis would have flown the German flag, not the party flag.

Discuss.

144 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:51:46am

re: #19 tster

What makes these guys "far-right?" Last time I checked the Nazis where not "far-right."

Last time I checked the "right" was for limited government and individual responsibility. Nazis and Neo-Nazis are for killing minorities, and establishing white dominance. I don't see the connection.

IF the last time you checked was 1945, then yes, the Nazis were not a "right wing" party. But ever since the 1950's neo-nazis & various other racist groups have self-identified as "right wing extremists". The meanings and applications of political terminology has changed over time.

145 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:52:02am

re: #137 Rancher

Socialists. They are not for individual rights, religious freedom, or any other conservative values that I know of.

limited gov't, 2nd amendment, tax cuts , YUP , all "left of center" platforms
shheeeeeshhh

146 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:52:19am

re: #107 Sharmuta

Stalin wasn't a nationalist. He was promoting the soviet state- internationalism.

Actually, it was Trotsky who argued for international communism, in opposition to Stalin........
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

147 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:52:20am

re: #133 Walter L. Newton

Except where Neal Stephenson or Umberto Eco is concerned. But, then again, they publish under the rubicon of fiction, not fact.

Ah, but Eco addressed the whole issue of the nonsense quite rationally. I recommend Foucalt's Pendulum to anyone lost in the mazes of crankery.

148 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:52:41am

re: #135 turn

Hey Walter, if it's any consolation turn knew it was only a joke. Man do we have some LGF historians or what?

Yes we do. And my girlfriend is degreed in history, and it is wonderful to listen to her talk on certain historical subjects. All my knowledge is armchair and from traveling, reading and personal research.

149 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:52:43am

re: #144 Kenneth

IF the last time you checked was 1945, then yes, the Nazis were not a "right wing" party. But ever since the 1950's neo-nazis & various other racist groups have self-identified as "right wing extremists". The meanings and applications of political terminology has changed over time.

indeed, consider what personal liberty used to mean

150 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:53:50am
151 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:53:53am

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

Dan Brown based his crap on "Holy Blood, Holy Grail".

152 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:54:15am

re: #133 Walter L. Newton

Oh, btw - you meant "rubric", not "rubicon", which is a stream outside Rome, and the last line past which no general was to bring an army. Or so said the Senate.

Thus, Caesar crossing the Rubicon was the point of no return, and the end (no matter what was said afterwards) of the Republic.

153 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:54:20am

re: #147 Dianna

Ah, but Eco addressed the whole issue of the nonsense quite rationally. I recommend Foucalt's Pendulum to anyone lost in the mazes of crankery.

And so do I.

154 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:55:00am
155 Rancher  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:55:13am

re: #145 sattv4u2

limited gov't, 2nd amendment, tax cuts , YUP , all "left of center" platforms
shheeeeeshhh

They are for 2nd amendment rights now, but I seem to remember the Nazis confiscating guns. Limited government? I doubt it, again if these guys are Nazis they believe the state should have its hands in every aspect of our lives. Tax cuts? Thats a National Socialist agenda? Link please.

156 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:55:22am

re: #150 Iron Fist

Rodinia doesn't mean "International Kolektiv" in Russian. After Hitler invaded, Russian nationalism was used to rally the conscripts to give their all. The Soviet Union wasn't the kind of thing to inspire that kind of loyalty, what with all the famine, purges, mass arrests, and general mayhem that Lenin and his posse brought to the captive nations.

It was the concept of the Motherland, an almost spiritual concept to Russians, that became the rallying cry and the linchpin of their tenacious defense of Mother Russia.

157 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:55:46am

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

I thought RubiCon was the big Roman convention...

For solving puzzle blocks?

158 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:55:49am

re: #127 sattv4u2

nice dodge, but please answer the question.. Where on the political spectrum do you place those groups (because those groups DO have political policies) ?

Even if they are for limited government and economic freedom, that doesn't make them "far-right." Furthermore, the article implies that it is their "far-rightness" that makes them want to kill Muslims. In fact, they might be right-wing, but it's their "Naziness" that makes them want to kill Muslims.

This would be like saying "Far-right extremist kills 5 in car crash while text-messaging." Even if the person is "far-right," the car crash was caused by stupidity, not political ideology.

159 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:56:05am

re: #151 Kenneth

Dan Brown based his crap on "Holy Blood, Holy Grail".

Also on The Templar Revelation and (shudder) The Woman with the Alabaster Jar.

160 debutaunt  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:56:15am

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

I thought RubiCon was the big Roman convention...

Held in the RubiCube.

161 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:56:28am

re: #107 Sharmuta

Stalin wasn't a nationalist. He was promoting the soviet state- internationalism.

Under Stalin, Russia pursued a ruthless policy of Russification of the USSR., even against his own ethnic group, the Georgians. His was indeed a form of nationalism.

162 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:56:35am

re: #155 Rancher

They are for 2nd amendment rights now, but I seem to remember the Nazis confiscating guns. Limited government? I doubt it, again if these guys are Nazis they believe the state should have its hands in every aspect of our lives. Tax cuts? Thats a National Socialist agenda? Link please.

You changed the parameters. We were (are) talking FAR RIGHT WING, circa 2009, not Naziism circa 1939

163 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:56:42am

re: #151 Kenneth

Dan Brown based his crap on "Holy Blood, Holy Grail".

Well, not according to the courts. But I know HBHG, and that whole subject SO WELL, that I can certainly say that he used HBHG as a source. Part of the problem is that HBHG was published as history, and all Brown had to do was claim he was using that book for historical research.

The authors of HBHG sued Brown for plagerism and lost. The courts found in favor of Brown.

164 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:56:49am

re: #152 Dianna

Oh, btw - you meant "rubric", not "rubicon", which is a stream outside Rome, and the last line past which no general was to bring an army. Or so said the Senate.

Thus, Caesar crossing the Rubicon was the point of no return, and the end (no matter what was said afterwards) of the Republic.

I thought Rubicon was a casino where Caeser played dice.......
/ :) *ducks*

165 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:57:32am

re: #152 Dianna

Oh, btw - you meant "rubric", not "rubicon", which is a stream outside Rome, and the last line past which no general was to bring an army. Or so said the Senate.

Thus, Caesar crossing the Rubicon was the point of no return, and the end (no matter what was said afterwards) of the Republic.

Yea, that too, that's the ticket :)

166 elBarto  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:57:38am

The NAZI party was about giving up individual rights to the Reich or the Volk. The Volkswagen is the "Peoples Car" they believed that the needs of the state were more important.
If the Neo Nazi follwo the patern of the German Nazi party they would eb socialist. I think the only thing that they have in common is the hatred for "Non Aryans"

167 sattv4u2  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:58:15am

re: #158 tster

Even if they are for limited government and economic freedom, that doesn't make them "far-right." Furthermore, the article implies that it is their "far-rightness" that makes them want to kill Muslims. In fact, they might be right-wing, but it's their "Naziness" that makes them want to kill Muslims.

This would be like saying "Far-right extremist kills 5 in car crash while text-messaging." Even if the person is "far-right," the car crash was caused by stupidity, not political ideology.


And yet again, a non answer
Last time. On the political spectrum, please clasify the following of TODAYS groups

KKK
Skin Heads
Neo- Nazis

168 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:58:33am

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

The worse thing about Brown's books is that they are such unreadably bad writing.

169 Dahveed  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:58:52am

OT~

The House is attaching a surtax on those making more than $200,000 to the Health Care Bill. At what point will the idiots in Congress realize that the rich only have so much money and can't pay for everything? And the wealthy will figure out ways to keep their money hidden so the government can't get its claws on it?

170 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:59:15am

re: #152 Dianna

Oh, btw - you meant "rubric", not "rubicon", which is a stream outside Rome, and the last line past which no general was to bring an army. Or so said the Senate.

Thus, Caesar crossing the Rubicon was the point of no return, and the end (no matter what was said afterwards) of the Republic.

And by the way, that's why I have had strong editors who carefully look over my scripts. Hey, I'm from Brooklyn, we always misappropriate words... ya know.

171 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:59:16am

re: #158 tster

Even if they are for limited government and economic freedom, that doesn't make them "far-right." Furthermore, the article implies that it is their "far-rightness" that makes them want to kill Muslims. In fact, they might be right-wing, but it's their "Naziness" that makes them want to kill Muslims.

This would be like saying "Far-right extremist kills 5 in car crash while text-messaging." Even if the person is "far-right," the car crash was caused by stupidity, not political ideology.

stereotypical labels don't induce people to kill each...hatred does

172 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:59:20am

re: #132 Sharmuta

Start by putting down the copy of Fascism for Dummies, and read some real political science.

Have you read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg? Not exactly a political-science light-weight.

173 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:59:26am
174 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:59:40am

re: #114 ointmentfly

The sad truth is that he is extremely intelligent compared to his constituency, which is why the democrat party even exists.

I read then-Senator Gore's terrifying book Earth In The Balance early on in college, and it was part of what shaped me into the rock-ribbed Republican I am today. The terrifying part wasn't the problems he reported, but the solutions he proposed.

175 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:59:44am

re: #150 Iron Fist

Rodinia doesn't mean "International Kolektiv" in Russian. After Hitler invaded, Russian nationalism was used to rally the conscripts to give their all. The Soviet Union wasn't the kind of thing to inspire that kind of loyalty, what with all the famine, purges, mass arrests, and general mayhem that Lenin and his posse brought to the captive nations.

Quite incorrect. Socialism in One Country was Stalin's slogan for internal consumption starting in 1926, when he defeated Trotsky.

Try reading The Whisperers, and other strong documentary histories. Remember, we're not talking about the Terror Histories, only. There's a lot of different views.

176 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:00:16am

re: #97 Rednek

Hey, cool!

VLC 1.0.0 released

Will this work with XP64?

177 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:00:29am

re: #168 Kenneth

The worse thing about Brown's books is that they are such unreadably bad writing.

sheer boredom...I could not believe the fuss over that book

178 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:00:30am

re: #168 Kenneth

The worse thing about Brown's books is that they are such unreadably bad writing.

You're right. And I have "Digital Fortress" on my "to read" stack right now.

179 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:01:14am

The fascist revisionists have done their work well.

180 calcajun  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:01:49am

Sigh.

We study history because human nature has not changed. - Victor Davis Hanson

On the one hand, having grown up in a region and era of church bombings, I can see the UK Klan-types doing this. On the other hand, I have to believe that those same types would realize the galvanizing effect of such an action and would avoid doing it. Either they are that stupid, or this is staged. Don't know enough to say more.

181 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:02:01am

re: #143 Ben Hur

If Hitler was a Nationalist, the Nazis would have flown the German flag, not the party flag.

Discuss.

True.

182 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:02:17am

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

Well, not according to the courts. But I know HBHG, and that whole subject SO WELL, that I can certainly say that he used HBHG as a source. Part of the problem is that HBHG was published as history, and all Brown had to do was claim he was using that book for historical research.

The authors of HBHG sued Brown for plagerism and lost. The courts found in favor of Brown.

Well, considering that Brown openly cited HBHG, they couldn't possibly get him for plagiarism!

183 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:02:31am

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

You're right. And I have "Digital Fortress" on my "to read" stack right now.

I will save you the trouble. It's very similar to all his other books plot wise. VERY similar.

/read all of them in about two days. I was really, really bored and the library was closed.

184 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:02:35am

re: #158 tster

Even if they are for limited government and economic freedom, that doesn't make them "far-right." Furthermore, the article implies that it is their "far-rightness" that makes them want to kill Muslims. In fact, they might be right-wing, but it's their "Naziness" that makes them want to kill Muslims.

This would be like saying "Far-right extremist kills 5 in car crash while text-messaging." Even if the person is "far-right," the car crash was caused by stupidity, not political ideology.

Okaaaaaaay... so if I grasp your "logic" here ...if these British yobs were text messaging while they were putting together their bomb plot, then it wasn't their "far right ideology" that was responsible for their plan to murder innocent people, but rather it was their cell phones what made them do it?

Is that how it works?

You go fuck off now, ok?

185 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:03:03am

Vlaams Belang continues "informal" relationship with the BNP....
BNP fails to find allies to form new bloc in Europe

Mr Griffin, along with his colleague Andrew Brons, had been in talks with Hungary's far-right Jobbik party; France's National Front; Belgium's Vlaams Belang and Ataka, the nationalist Bulgarian party.

Their plans to forge links with other parties, such as Italy's Northern League, failed because other Right-wing groupings feared that the BNP's controversial reputation would lead to isolation.

"We will remain in the unattached members working informally with some of the groups such as the Front National and Vlaams Belang," said Mr Griffin.

186 pat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:03:17am

LGF is very slow loading.

187 Scion9  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:03:33am

re: #161 Kenneth

Under Stalin, Russia pursued a ruthless policy of Russification of the USSR., even against his own ethnic group, the Georgians. His was indeed a form of nationalism.

That is the whole problem of 'Internationalism' versus 'Nationalism'. Stalin's goal of 'making the world Russia' as an Internationalist wasn't distinct from Hitler's nationalist notions of 'making the world Aryan', except that latter view depended more on lineage and biology (although not by much considering Stalin's own attempts at ethnic cleansing).

I single, world-wide culture, government and people was the rallying cry of the early Internationalists, so Stalin's efforts were hardly very far off of the path that Marx and his intellectual offspring had tread before him.

I suspect the conundrum over distinguishing the two gave us our current muddled multiculturalism where everyone is free to be a member of their own culture as long as they loathe themselves for doing it.

188 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:03:54am

re: #186 pat

LGF is very slow loading.

Do you have Comcast and live in the western half of the country?

189 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:07am

re: #143 Ben Hur

Boo!

190 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:16am

re: #174 haakondahl

I read then-Senator Gore's terrifying book Earth In The Balance early on in college, and it was part of what shaped me into the rock-ribbed Republican I am today. The terrifying part wasn't the problems he reported, but the solutions he proposed.

Updings! Many, many updings!

I read that book as a power grab, too.

191 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:19am

re: #184 Kenneth

Okaaaaaaay... so if I grasp your "logic" here ...if these British yobs were text messaging while they were putting together their bomb plot, then it wasn't their "far right ideology" that was responsible for their plan to murder innocent people, but rather it was their cell phones what made them do it?

Is that how it works?

You go fuck off now, ok?

You are very polite!

193 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:48am

It's July 7th.

You'd think people might be more interested in commemorating the 7/7 massacre in England, but whatever.

194 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:51am

re: #128 Rancher

Just as many? I find that hard to believe.

re: #174 haakondahl

I read then-Senator Gore's terrifying book Earth In The Balance early on in college, and it was part of what shaped me into the rock-ribbed Republican I am today. The terrifying part wasn't the problems he reported, but the solutions he proposed.

It has taken the freaking goof a few decades, but he really has found himself a nice little sweet spot worth a hundred million or so. As with most of liberal thought, the goal is implementing the solution and the problem is just bull squeeze.

195 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:52am

re: #189 WriterMom

Boo!

WTF!

Weren't you banned?

196 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:04:52am

re: #186 pat

I blame Micheal Jackson.

197 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:08am
198 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:18am

re: #189 WriterMom

You!

199 pat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:36am

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

I have Time Warner, and yes am in Western half.

200 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:41am

re: #193 WriterMom

It's July 7th.

You'd think people might be more interested in commemorating the 7/7 massacre in England, but whatever.

We are all equal.

201 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:46am

re: #186 pat

LGF is very slow loading.

It's all the overweight old fuds, like me, which your local server's having to drag along.

202 jaunte  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #192 Sharmuta

Power-seekers transcend other people's labels.

203 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:48am

re: #198 Kenneth

Hey Kenneth.

204 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:05:54am

re: #191 MandyManners

I learned from you.

205 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:06:16am

re: #195 Ben Hur

No.

206 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:06:20am

re: #203 WriterMom

What's up? Sorry I missed your lunch, was away at the cottage last week.

207 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:06:40am

re: #189 WriterMom

Boo!

good to "see" you.

208 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:06:42am

re: #205 WriterMom

No.


That's too bad.

209 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:06:48am

re: #200 Ben Hur

Equal opportunity effing dhimmitude on both continents.

210 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:06:52am

Obama's Presidential Approval Index continues to fall.

It is at -3 today.

211 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:05am

re: #208 Ben Hur

Do you need a spanking?

212 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:08am

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Vlaams Belang continues "informal" relationship with the BNP....
BNP fails to find allies to form new bloc in Europe

Can we question their patriotism fascist leanings now?

213 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:16am

re: #207 reine.de.tout

Hi there.

214 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:31am

re: #211 WriterMom

Do you need a spanking?

TMI! TMI!

Mind floss!

215 jaunte  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:45am

re: #207 reine.de.tout

Thanks for the recipes!

216 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:54am

re: #206 Kenneth

I've got two scheduled with speakers for the fall. Send me a note-you won't want to miss either.

217 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:07:59am
218 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:08:22am

re: #214 Dianna

TMI! TMI!

Mind floss!

Relax, she would probably be borrowing Mandys' clue by four for the task.

219 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:08:36am

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

You're right. And I have "Digital Fortress" on my "to read" stack right now.

I loved that book! A fun read....
I usually read SI, Sporting news and ESPN the Magazine but sometimes I read Dan Brown's stuff and a few other fiction writers....
Ok...Maybe the hoopster is a dumbass but the reads were fun....Unlike Tony Dungy's book...I made it through that in about 30 minutes....Every other line was God inspired me to do this or that... Ok Tony..Make it one chapter about God and move on to the Football stuff....jeez....
What a waste of 24.99

220 Spartacus50  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:08:38am

re: #139 sattv4u2

How so, and to what end?

Is right wing extremism honestly more of a threat than militant Islam? Only one of them has expressed a desire for nuclear weapons. I am not saying there aren't causes of concern but it seems to be elevated to a level that it doesn't deserve.

221 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:08:42am

re: #210 NJDhockeyfan

Obama's Presidential Approval Index continues to fall.

It is at -3 today.

Prepare for the other 1/2 of the 2 trillion dollar stimulus that nobody told you about, but they have had always planned on doing....

222 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:08:52am

Actually-I just want to know if there are any lizards in Cincinnati, OH. I may be travelling there this summer. If there are, please send me a note.

223 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:08:52am

The problem with these left/right arguments is that the it isn't a simple line, but has at least two dimensions.
If Zombie were here, we could get a good lecture on that

224 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:09:14am

re: #202 jaunte

Power-seekers transcend other people's labels.

The common theme is authoritarianism. Authoritarians will run with whatever ideology they think will put them in power. And not just from the left, but from the right too. To think otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

225 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:09:18am

re: #196 Fenway_Nation

I blame Micheal Jackson.

heh....
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

226 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:09:22am

re: #199 pat

I have Time Warner, and yes am in Western half.

Over the last two weeks, a number of Lizards with Comcast living in the western half of the country were having speed problem, including myself. It was only a problem with the routing to LGF servers.

It went away. No one reported problems with Time Warner. But the problem does seem to be with something along the main "pipes" around the country, and not with Charles' servers.

Is it only happening with LGF.

227 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:09:55am

re: #187 Scion9

Very true. Consider Poland ... in the western sector, the Germans were killing Poles to Aryianize the country. People fled to eastern Poland. In eastern Poland, the Russians were killing Poles to "socialize" the country and people fled to western Poland. Many of the same sorts of people were being killed, for different reasons.

228 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:10:08am

re: #19 tster

What makes these guys "far-right?" Last time I checked the Nazis where not "far-right."

Last time I checked the "right" was for limited government and individual responsibility. Nazis and Neo-Nazis are for killing minorities, and establishing white dominance. I don't see the connection.


ahahaha, another one of these guys.

explain to me how the term right wing isn't associated with conservatism and I will eat my laptop.

229 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:10:47am

re: #210 NJDhockeyfan

So does the Dow Jones. I think it's setting in that we're in for 3 and a half more years of this joker....

230 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:10:57am

re: #143 Ben Hur

If Hitler was a Nationalist, the Nazis would have flown the German flag, not the party flag.

Discuss.

He was a National Socialist.
Yes, two, Two, TWO evil philosophies in one!

231 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:11:10am

re: #222 WriterMom

Actually-I just want to know if there are any lizards in Cincinnati, OH. I may be travelling there this summer. If there are, please send me a note.

Sounds......exciting.

232 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:11:33am

re: #220 Spartacus50

Is right wing extremism honestly more of a threat than militant Islam? Only one of them has expressed a desire for nuclear weapons. I am not saying there aren't causes of concern but it seems to be elevated to a level that it doesn't deserve.

Those opposed to the Tsar probably said the same thing about the Bolsheviks.

233 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:11:33am

re: #199 pat

( ( pat ) )

234 pat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:11:36am

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

Is it only happening with LGF

.
Yes, although I find the reputed speed of Firefox 3 to be exaggerated.

235 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:12:00am

re: #231 Ben Hur

It's for one of the kids, it wouldn't be my first choice-believe me.

236 pat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:12:15am

re: #233 WriterMom

Hi Writer Mom!

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:12:31am

re: #10 quiet man

Like that is really going to help dig the world out of the hole.

Good for the Brits...and I am thankful we have seen so very little of that here..

Despite dire predictions, Americans persist in being pretty sane people.

238 Ben Hur  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:13:12am

re: #235 WriterMom

It's for one of the kids, it wouldn't be my first choice-believe me.


Your kids said, "Pleeeease? Can we go to Cincinnati?"

239 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:13:54am

re: #236 pat

Hey pat...long time no see. Your name came up in a conversation the other day...I would have sent you a note, but I don't have your address...

240 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:14:28am

re: #238 Ben Hur

Not exactly! I can't discuss the details on the intrawebs...

241 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:14:38am

Fascists hate communists.

242 dahveed  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:14:47am

re: #229 Fenway_Nation

So does the Dow Jones. I think it's setting in that we're in for 3 and a half more years of this joker....

I think after the election in November, the market realized what this president was all about. Everytime he spoke when the markets were open, the markets tanked. I have never seen a president that actually seemed to relish the idea that no one should get rich during his administration.

243 calcajun  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:14:48am

re: #211 WriterMom

Do you need a spanking?

The torrent of potential come-backs to that one overwhelm me.//

244 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:14:59am

re: #216 WriterMom

For sure.

So have you been released from the Struggle Sessions at the Stalinist Lesbian Reeducation Camp?

245 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:15:25am
246 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:15:40am

re: #243 calcajun

So, let's hear...

247 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:16:19am

re: #244 Kenneth

You have no idea. When we talk, I'll tell you who I met with about Mein Kampf.

248 lawhawk  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:16:37am

re: #169 Dahveed

And isn't it funny how the surtax is going to be imposed on folks making just over the amount that Congressmembers receive in annual salary. They aren't going to suffer from a tax hike if they can help it. Oh, and it's a tax cheat who is proposing these surtaxes and hikes to fund health care "reform".

249 Spartacus50  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:16:39am

re: #232 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Those opposed to the Tsar probably said the same thing about the Bolsheviks.

Because when I look around I see nothing but goose-stepping, right wing zealots. /

250 haakondahl  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:16:58am

re: #172 tster

Have you read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg? Not exactly a political-science light-weight.

Many of us here have read it. There are a couple of problems, which are not necessarily criticisms of Goldberg, who is a good guy. First is that the neo-Nazis are not small-government, individual rights advocates. Imagine the size of government it would take to keep a racial minority in power by force. Even the original Nazis were no paragon of small government or individual rights support. Sacrifice and disarmament were the lot of pre-WWII "citizens" of Nazi Germany.
The other problem is that most of the time when you hear somebody raise the valid points which Goldberg makes, it is to smooth over a monstrous collection of ideas which are the modern equivalent of the Final Solution. "My genocidal ideas can't possibly be genocidal, because I am on the right,m whereas Hitler was on the left".
This *should* be simply a non sequitur, but the ideas are linked by both the offense and the defense. So it's all quite difficult to untangle.
Therefore, I advise you to stop pushing the "Nazis weren't rightist because socialism is leftist" theme, and get right to the point. Surely this wasn't it.

251 pat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:13am

re: #239 WriterMom

Hey pat...long time no see. Your name came up in a conversation the other day...I would have sent you a note, but I don't have your address...

Must have been a very dull day, with lots of pauses, lol

252 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:16am

Fascist also have a thing about purity.

Pure bloods vs the mud bloods.

The Harry Potter books are a great analogy to modern fascism.

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:34am

re: #37 tster

Stalin used nationalism extensively and I don't think anyone called him right-wing. Just because American liberals hate America doesn't make nationalism a right-wing idea.

Oh for God's sake. It's been discussed here many times here how the left-right metaphor does not cover the complexity of American or world history and politics. However, if you insist on using the left-right-line the deal is that the left gets the Marxists and the right gets the Nazis. If you can't live with that, just call yourself an American conservative and move on!

254 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:46am

re: #247 WriterMom

This I gotta hear...

255 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:49am

re: #244 Kenneth

For sure.

So have you been released from the Struggle Sessions at the Stalinist Lesbian Reeducation Camp?

We'll have so much fun at the Obama Holiday Camp.
//////

256 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:53am

re: #242 dahveed


That and nobody should work, apparently.

257 WriterMom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:17:56am

re: #251 pat

No. LOL. It was just 'blog talk'. Nothing exciting, but just kinda funny.

258 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:18:13am

FOX news continues to stoke the fires of extremism (originally posted on Stormfront).....
Gerald Celente on Fox News - Obamageddon is coming - 7-5-09

Gerald Celente is a notorious crank.

259 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:18:16am

re: #230 Kosh's Shadow

He was a National Socialist.
Yes, two, Two, TWO evil philosophies in one!

Sounds like quite the sale. I can see it on an infomercial now...

Two evil philosophies for the price of one!
But that's not all!
We'll also throw in Jew-hate and major world war for free with every purchase!

260 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:18:20am

re: #220 Spartacus50

Is right wing extremism honestly more of a threat than militant Islam? Only one of them has expressed a desire for nuclear weapons. I am not saying there aren't causes of concern but it seems to be elevated to a level that it doesn't deserve.

Right wing extremism is a threat, period. To ignore or whitewash is to invite the kind of disaster that the British just thwarted.

261 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:18:33am

Dianna, I sent out my comments on your book last night.
Did you get the email?

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:19:26am

re: #50 pre-Boomer Marine brat

IIRC, Saladin said the same thing when he ordered the sacking of a city. His commanders asked, should we just kill the enemy's soldiers? Saladin said, no, kill everyone. God will sort them out.

Not Saladin, IIRC. That was Simon de Monfort. Saladin might have said it as well, but I'd be surprised--Saladin was a classy guy by the standard of the age.

263 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:19:33am

re: #241 Sharmuta

Fascists hate communists.

And vice-versa. They're fighting over the same ground, the ability to rule over people in their own authoritarian fashion.

264 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:19:33am

re: #259 Honorary Yooper

Sounds like quite the sale. I can see it on an infomercial now...

Two evil philosophies for the price of one!
But that's not all!
We'll also throw in Jew-hate and major world war for free with every purchase!

But only if you demonstrate RIGHT NOW!

265 jill e  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:20:13am
266 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:20:26am

re: #60 BlueCanuck

It's a phrase that seems to pop up a lot in history. I believe a pope or bishop said the same thing in France dealing with a gnostic heresy.

/can't remember the date or the actual name of the gnostics. was southern France though.

Cathars.

267 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:20:35am

Here's some hopenchange from Congress...

Killing Trade by TRADE

On June 24, 106 Members of Congress introduced the Trade Reform, Accountability, Development, and Employment (TRADE) Act (H.R. 3012) as the vehicle for reshaping U.S. trade policy. Mandating additional reviews of current and potential trade agreements and adding a multitude of new exceptions, regulatory barriers, and other requirements, the act, if implemented, will effectively bring to a halt the free flow of goods and services into and out of the United States--hurting U.S. consumers and exporters alike.

Though cloaked as a measure designed to "ensure that trade is fair for our workers and economy,"[1] in reality such "fairness" means special breaks and government handouts for the politically connected and powerful, with the rest of America paying the bill. The real intent of the legislation is clear: to erect costly, protectionist walls around America's economy. In the process, it is likely to sound the death knell for the international trade system as a whole.

268 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:20:51am

re: #258 Killgore Trout

Now fox news is getting story ideas from Stormfront!

269 calcajun  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:20:51am

re: #246 WriterMom

So, let's hear...

Ok, here are a few.

1. No, thank you. I've had my session for this morning.
2. What are your rates?
3. No, he likes that sort of thing.
4. I thought you were out of that line of work.
5. No, for I did not light the Grail-shaped beacon.
6. No, I'm here to book a travel tour (an obscure Python sketch)//

270 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:21:24am

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh for God's sake. It's been discussed here many times here how the left-right metaphor does not cover the complexity of American or world history and politics. However, if you insist on using the left-right-line the deal is that the left gets the Marxists and the right gets the Nazis. If you can't live with that, just call yourself an American conservative and move on!

The salient point to me is that both extremes, however labeled, represented the ultimate in Statism. It is the overwhelming power of the State that kills it's own citizens - regardless of the underlying idealogy.
Hence the virtue in arguing for limited powers and smaller government.

271 AuntAcid  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:21:40am

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

I have no use for extremists ... period.

now that's being moderate...

272 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:22:17am

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

Not Saladin, IIRC. That was Simon de Monfort. Saladin might have said it as well, but I'd be surprised--Saladin was a classy guy by the standard of the age.

Yeah, ... as I replied to J.S. up-thread, it was probably another Muslim general whom I was reading about. (But in that account, it was [also] attributed to a Muslim.)

273 dahveed  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:22:24am

re: #248 lawhawk

You actually hit the nail on the head in your blog post. The expectation is that revenues will increase some $800 million over 10 years. Well, assuming the current environment keeps going for a while (and it looks like it will continue given all the taxes imposed on people), how will they ever be able to collect that kind of revenue? In my opinion there is no way they will collect that kind of revenue. The rich stay rich because they know how to hold on to their money.

274 calcajun  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:22:30am

re: #268 Sharmuta

Now fox news is getting story ideas from Stormfront!

And our party slinks slowly toward the abyss...

275 Spartacus50  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:23:28am

re: #260 scottishbuzzsaw

Right wing extremism is a threat, period. To ignore or whitewash is to invite the kind of disaster that the British just thwarted.

Of all the worrisome things that keep me awake at night, I honestly must say that right wing extremism is pretty far down the list. Just sayin'

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:23:44am

re: #128 Rancher

Just as many? I find that hard to believe.

Could be. They're probably easier to track down, and more scattershot.

277 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:24:08am

re: #268 Sharmuta

Stormfront seem to be their target audience these days.

278 calcajun  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:25:16am

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Stormfront seem to be their target audience these days.

Just who the hell are they getting for their focus groups? The demographics have not changed that much, dammit.

279 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:25:27am

re: #263 Honorary Yooper

And vice-versa. They're fighting over the same ground, the ability to rule over people in their own authoritarian fashion.

They're fighting over people who lack a constrained vision. This goes deeper than left-right. It's a false dichotomy. It doesn't get to the root of political differences- do you believe in the rule of law, or the rule of men?

280 Shug  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:26:38am

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Stormfront seem to be their target audience these days.

yes, that's why they are #1 in the ratings.

the millions and millions of stormfront viewers who are tuning in for Kaylee Anthony , Drew Peterson, and Michael jackson Coverage.

The only Nazi I know on TV is on MSNBC

281 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:27:17am

re: #273 dahveed

You actually hit the nail on the head in your blog post. The expectation is that revenues will increase some $800 million over 10 years. Well, assuming the current environment keeps going for a while (and it looks like it will continue given all the taxes imposed on people), how will they ever be able to collect that kind of revenue? In my opinion there is no way they will collect that kind of revenue. The rich stay rich because they know how to hold on to their money.



Here's a relevant Holbert cartoon

282 jill e  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:27:20am

When innocent people get killed by extremists, I don't care which side of the aisle you're affiliated with—you're just plain evil.

283 Dreader1962  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:27:49am

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

Well, not according to the courts. But I know HBHG, and that whole subject SO WELL, that I can certainly say that he used HBHG as a source. Part of the problem is that HBHG was published as history, and all Brown had to do was claim he was using that book for historical research.

The authors of HBHG sued Brown for plagerism and lost. The courts found in favor of Brown.

I always describe Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code' as a book for people who hate reading. Over 100 chapters in about 450 pages; some chapters taking less than one page? Come on!

Not to mention the fatal logical flaw in the denouement.

284 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:29:20am

re: #275 Spartacus50

Of all the worrisome things that keep me awake at night, I honestly must say that right wing extremism is pretty far down the list. Just sayin'

I think you can sleep well at night because those who came before us worked diligently to force out the unsavory elements on the conservative side. Should we let their hard work go to waste? Shall we leave this mess of fringe groups to those who come after us? Sorry, but I don't sleep well at night with all the creatures crawling out of the woodwork to say that they speak for us all.

285 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:29:31am
286 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:29:41am

re: #278 calcajun

Just who the hell are they getting for their focus groups? The demographics have not changed that much, dammit.

I think what's happening is the the whole neo-con post 9-11 thing is over with. Conservatives (like Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Tea Party movement, etc) are ditching the neo-cons in favor of the Libertarians. That's why Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, and their fellow travelers like Alex Jones, Stormfront, Birch Society are so active these days. The transformation is not complete but it seems that this is the direction they're headed.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:29:45am

re: #224 Sharmuta

The common theme is authoritarianism. Authoritarians will run with whatever ideology they think will put them in power. And not just from the left, but from the right too. To think otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Building on that:

A thought: It is OK to acknowledge that one's beliefs, taken to an absurd and violent extreme, would be very bad, without thinking the beliefs themselves are bad.

An example: A person can think that the U.S. should have more stringently enforced border policy without being a bad person. A person cannot start shooting illegal immigrants in the desert out of anger without being a bad person.

Therefore: It's OK to admit that bad people can be 'right-wing'. This does not mean that good right-wing people are bad. You don't have to take responsibility for Hitler if you call him a right-wing evil dictator.

Just an idea. FOr the folks who seem confused.

288 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:30:00am

re: #275 Spartacus50

Of all the worrisome things that keep me awake at night, I honestly must say that right wing extremism is pretty far down the list. Just sayin'

To me, right now, it is a less immediate danger than Muslim extremism and Iranian and North Korean nukes, but since right-wing extremism goes hand in hand with anti-Semitism, it is still something I'm concerned about, especially as Paulians are trying to take over the Republican party.

289 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:30:28am

re: #280 Shug

Of course, there's a much wider audience for this stuff. It's a very troubling trend.

290 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:32:02am

re: #283 Dreader1962

I always describe Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code' as a book for people who hate reading. Over 100 chapters in about 450 pages; some chapters taking less than one page? Come on!

Not to mention the fatal logical flaw in the denouement.

I've only watched the movie because my wife wanted to see it, and then I had to explain it to her. I saw the plot twists coming well in advance, and had figured out who she was quite early, but no spoilers in this post.

291 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:32:35am

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Of course, there's a much wider audience for this stuff. It's a very troubling trend.

The fascist media infiltration is indeed troubling.

292 doppelganglander  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:32:49am

re: #283 Dreader1962

I always describe Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code' as a book for people who hate reading. Over 100 chapters in about 450 pages; some chapters taking less than one page? Come on!

Not to mention the fatal logical flaw in the denouement.

"The Da Vinci Code" is a very poor example of the kind of book I love -- mysteries involving historical and/or literary elements. I have found a few authors who do it well -- Iain Pears, Charles Palliser, David Liss. The smart historical mystery/thriller seems to be a burgeoning genre - Amazon has a zillion suggestions if pull up any of these authors. Is anyone familiar with Michael Gruber? I'm considering trying him next.

293 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:32:59am

re: #284 scottishbuzzsaw

all the creatures crawling out of the woodwork

(Yet you wanted me to continue about "hot lips" yesterday!
... Talk about WANTING things to crawl outta th' woodwork!)
/SHEESH!

:D

294 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:33:02am

re: #271 AuntAcid

now that's being moderate...

it's a Lizardoid characteristic :)

295 LGoPs  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:33:10am

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Of course, there's a much wider audience for this stuff. It's a very troubling trend.

I am far less troubled by Fox than I am by the rest of the entire media culture which marches in unquestioning robotic lockstep with every utterance coming out of Obama and the Democratic Party machine.

296 MandyManners  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:33:39am

New York could be nuked right now but we'd not know it until the Whacko Jacko funeral is finished.

297 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:34:11am

re: #293 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(Yet you wanted me to continue about "hot lips" yesterday!
... Talk about WANTING things to crawl outta th' woodwork!)
/SHEESH!

:D

{pBMb} You are a hoot!

298 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:34:40am

re: #286 Killgore Trout

I think what's happening is the the whole neo-con post 9-11 thing is over with. Conservatives (like Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Tea Party movement, etc) are ditching the neo-cons in favor of the Libertarians. That's why Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, and their fellow travelers like Alex Jones, Stormfront, Birch Society are so active these days. The transformation is not complete but it seems that this is the direction they're headed.

Interesting point.
Perhaps overstated ... but "hmmmmmm" at this end

299 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:34:56am

re: #286 Killgore Trout

I think what's happening is the the whole neo-con post 9-11 thing is over with. Conservatives (like Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Tea Party movement, etc) are ditching the neo-cons in favor of the Libertarians. That's why Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, and their fellow travelers like Alex Jones, Stormfront, Birch Society are so active these days. The transformation is not complete but it seems that this is the direction they're headed.

Conservatism doesn't really have much to put out front and center at this point after getting stuck with the credit crisis and 8 years of war. The Ron Pauls of the world fit right into voids like this.

300 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:36:20am

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Stormfront seem to be their target audience these days.

OTOH the bailout is not working...what mechanism is there to prevent even higher unemployment?...another bailout, an even more massive debt?....I don't think Celente is the extremist here considering his track record.... ironically BO seems to be the extemist (and consider his record too) and his own minions are starting to admit it...where the story came from or where is goes is irrelevent

301 albusteve  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:37:10am

re: #295 LGoPs

I am far less troubled by Fox than I am by the rest of the entire media culture which marches in unquestioning robotic lockstep with every utterance coming out of Obama and the Democratic Party machine.

quite so....it's the shiny object syndrome

302 calcajun  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:38:14am

re: #296 MandyManners

New York could be nuked right now but we'd not know it until the Whacko Jacko funeral is finished.

With full appreciation about the admonition against such statements, I would love to see an EMP set off over the Staples Center just to stop the coverage of this freak show. No that I don't like Jackson ( I don't) but give the man some dignity in death and let it be a private affair. Too much public adoration is what made him bonkers in the first place.

Besides, there are other more important events going on in the world.

303 Tumulus11  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:39:06am

O/T

'I want his three children to know- wasn't nothin' weird 'bout your Daddy!

What's weird was what he had to put up with'
[Wild applause.]

// Rev. Al Sharpton, speaking at the Michael Jackson memorial.

304 Spartacus50  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:40:31am

re: #288 Kosh's Shadow

To me, right now, it is a less immediate danger than Muslim extremism and Iranian and North Korean nukes, but since right-wing extremism goes hand in hand with anti-Semitism, it is still something I'm concerned about, especially as Paulians are trying to take over the Republican party.

I agree, but anti-Semitism seems to straddle both the right and left wing political extremes. I just think that realistically speaking, that right wing extremism lacks the political support, ideological fervor (suicide bombings), and lucrative state sponsors that militant Islam has.

305 jvic  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:40:41am

re: #174 haakondahl

I read then-Senator Gore's terrifying book Earth In The Balance early on in college, and it was part of what shaped me into the rock-ribbed Republican I am today. The terrifying part wasn't the problems he reported, but the solutions he proposed.

Stupid people don't know better. Gore knows better. Calling Gore stupid lets him off way too easy.

306 Fingal  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:42:37am

re: #136 Spartacus50

For some reason, I find this story to be rather suspicious. I think this story has the impression of being "sexed-up".

Aha. Somebody gets it.

307 tster  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:42:52am

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist


Therefore: It's OK to admit that bad people can be 'right-wing'. This does not mean that good right-wing people are bad. You don't have to take responsibility for Hitler if you call him a right-wing evil dictator.


I agree with this, but the problem is that the articles repeated use of the words "far-right" make it sound like it's the beliefs which are causing the violence. If this were a muslim group thew article probably would have used the world "Muslim" either 0 or 1 times, therefore making it seem like an unimportant fact.

308 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:43:10am

re: #303 Tumulus11

O/T

'I want his three children to know- wasn't nothin' weird 'bout your Daddy!

What's weird was what he had to put up with'
[Wild applause.]

// Rev. Al Sharpton, speaking at the Michael Jackson memorial.

Right..... MJ's kids thought he was Ward Cleaver.....

309 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:43:18am

international far right groups ?

is Sarah Palin a member ?
George Bush (sr & jr)
Ronald Reagan, was he a member of this international far right ?

no no no no
above are American right wingers
and have nothing to do with these people whatsoever

310 Fingal  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:43:48am

re: #193 WriterMom

It's July 7th.

You'd think people might be more interested in commemorating the 7/7 massacre in England, but whatever.

Dong! Somebody else gets it.

311 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:44:47am

furthermore, right leaning people (at least by my assumption) don't want too much state control
neo-nazi's, like liberals and other LEFT LEANING groups
want absolute state control

312 Dreader1962  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:44:50am

re: #292 doppelganglander

"The Da Vinci Code" is a very poor example of the kind of book I love -- mysteries involving historical and/or literary elements. I have found a few authors who do it well -- Iain Pears, Charles Palliser, David Liss. The smart historical mystery/thriller seems to be a burgeoning genre - Amazon has a zillion suggestions if pull up any of these authors. Is anyone familiar with Michael Gruber? I'm considering trying him next.

I'm not familiar with him, but I would definitely recommend Umberto Eco (mentioned earlier) - The Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum.

If you enjoy mysteries set in historical times, I highly recommend the entire 'Cadfael' series written by Ellis Peters (pseudonym for Edith Pargeter). Most of these were brilliantly acted by Sir Derek Jacobi in ITV productions. Last month during a trip to the UK, I visited Shrewsbury, where she sets her stories - she used a portion of the profits from her novels to help restore the abbey there.

313 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:45:24am

re: #292 doppelganglander

I'm reading Bernard Cromwell's Athurian trilogy, The Winter King. Historical adventure, more than thriller, but it's got battles, intrigue and interesting characters. Good summer reading.

314 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:46:53am

re: #299 ointmentfly

Conservatism doesn't really have much to put out front and center at this point after getting stuck with the credit crisis and 8 years of war. The Ron Pauls of the world fit right into voids like this.

8 years of war....
which one ?

315 ointmentfly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:49:04am

re: #314 Adrenalyn

8 years of war....
which one ?

Both... Both were just in my mind, but undoubtedly neither did much to help conservatism especially given which side 99 percent of the press was on.

316 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:49:32am

re: #314 Adrenalyn

Come September 11, 2009 the US will have been at war with Al Qaeda for 8 years. My how time flies...

317 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:49:38am

re: #292 doppelganglander

"The Da Vinci Code" is a very poor example of the kind of book I love -- mysteries involving historical and/or literary elements. I have found a few authors who do it well -- Iain Pears, Charles Palliser, David Liss. The smart historical mystery/thriller seems to be a burgeoning genre - Amazon has a zillion suggestions if pull up any of these authors. Is anyone familiar with Michael Gruber? I'm considering trying him next.

Try Neal Stephenson.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

318 Dreader1962  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:50:44am

re: #313 Kenneth

You mean Bernard Cornwell - Cromwell is interesting to read about, however.

Good choice - I've already read that trilogy. I recommended Cornwell to my brother-in-law and he's devoured nearly everything he's written. I have quite a bit of catching up to do!

319 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:54:24am

re: #316 Kenneth

Come September 11, 2009 the US will have been at war with Al Qaeda for 8 years. My how time flies...

seems to me they bombed the WTC in 1993
which would make it longer than 8 years

but I guess we declared it BACK
only 8 years ago

and surrended only 8 months ago

320 Dianna  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:04:23pm

re: #261 Kosh's Shadow

Dianna, I sent out my comments on your book last night.
Did you get the email?

I did. I will reply this evening.

321 Rancher  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:15:44pm

re: #162 sattv4u2

You changed the parameters. We were (are) talking FAR RIGHT WING, circa 2009, not Naziism circa 1939


Well I admit I judge todays Nazis by the 1940's Nazis and Hitler whom they seem to idolize. I'll tell you what, I'll check out a few web sites see how many conservative ideas they espouse and then continue the argument from there.

322 Kronocide  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:17:02pm

Instead of 'Far Right' they should be called the 'Far Out Right.'

In an ideal world.

323 hans ze beeman  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:19:04pm

re: #322 BigPapa

Instead of 'Far Right' they should be called the 'Far Out Right.'

In an ideal world.

Or maybe the outright far.

324 Rancher  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:26:48pm

re: #145 sattv4u2

limited gov't, 2nd amendment, tax cuts , YUP , all "left of center" platforms
shheeeeeshhh


From Wiki:

According to its constitution, the BNP is "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948".[17] The BNP proposes "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home".[18] The party also advocates the repeal of all anti-discrimination legislation, and restricts party membership to "indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’". The BNP also accepts white immigrants that are assimilated into one of those ethnicities.[17] The BNP asserts that there are biological racial differences that determine the behaviour and character of individuals of different races, although it also claims that it does not regard whites as superior to other ethnic groups,[19] and that preference for one's own ethnicity is a part of human nature.[18]


Don't see limited gov't, 2nd amendment, or tax cuts listed.

325 Mad Mullah  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:32:35pm

With the way things are in Europe, I can't exactly say that I'm surprised.

I also read recently that the Hell Angels in Denmark had declared war against Muslim immigrant gangs. When a country imports a staggering amount of foreign extremists, it hardly surprising that other extremists who belong to that country and who are opposed to this will strike back using extreme measures.

326 Jimmah  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:40:28pm

re: #37 tster

Stalin used nationalism extensively and I don't think anyone called him right-wing. Just because American liberals hate America doesn't make nationalism a right-wing idea.

Oh for fuck's sake will you and some others here get real? We're talking ethnic nationalism here. That's an extreme right wing thing.

327 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:44:00pm

re: #326 Jimmah

Oh for fuck's sake will you and some others here get real? We're talking ethnic nationalism here. That's an extreme right wing thing.

ok, glad to have the NAACP and LaRaza on the right, for a change
and radical Islam too
sheesh, we scored the trifecta today on the right

and will still have Sarah Palin, (aka slutty flight attendant)

328 oldschool  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:48:03pm

88
One of the biggest myths in American politics is that Al Gore is intelligent

A bigger one is that Obama is intelligent. Smooth and devious but intelligent I don't think so.

329 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:51:22pm

re: #318 Dreader1962

duh. Thanks for the correction. When I'm finished this one, I'm going to read his book Agincourt

330 Kenneth  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:53:19pm

re: #324 Rancher

Most of the BNP's platform looks like an imitation of the Labour Party before they got all multi-culti. The only difference is the racist crap on top of everything.

331 Mad Mullah  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:54:39pm

re: #328 oldschool
A bigger one is that Obama is intelligent. Smooth and devious but intelligent I don't think so.

That's what I've always been claiming too. Obama is hardly the genius that his fanatical and foolish worshippers make him out to be.

Obama has the charisma to deceive a bunch of people, but so did Jim Jones and Charles Manson.

332 Jimmah  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:01:31pm

re: #327 Adrenalyn

Ooh yeah cos all these neo-nazi groups and right wing bomb nuts that have been popping up lately are obviously motivated by their great political affinity with Barack Obama///

Ethnic nationalism= defining a country according to one race/ethnic identity and wanting everyone else chucked out of the country. Let's see if any of your examples fit the bill:

NAACP - civil rights movement.

Islam - (WTF?) is neither a race NOR a country, NOR is it left wing, unless ultra conservative religiosity is to be made a defining characteristic of the left as well!

La Raza - latino civil rights/advocacy group.

333 ladycatnip  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:06:36pm

Along with this topic:

Judge in Britain says to three islamists as she sentences them for arson, 'If you choose to live in this country, you live by its rules'.

Brave judge. Ugly guys.

334 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:07:29pm

re: #332 Jimmah

Ooh yeah cos all these neo-nazi groups and right wing bomb nuts that have been popping up lately are obviously motivated by their great political affinity with Barack Obama///

Ethnic nationalism= defining a country according to one race/ethnic identity and wanting everyone else chucked out of the country. Let's see if any of your examples fit the bill:

NAACP - civil rights movement.

Islam - (WTF?) is neither a race NOR a country, NOR is it left wing, unless ultra conservative religiosity is to be made a defining characteristic of the left as well!

La Raza - latino civil rights/advocacy group.

all those groups espouse a focus that THEIR group is special, elevated above all others
nothing more, nothing less
that is pretty racist to me
and sure "Islam" is not a race
but how fucking often HAVE THEY thrown down the race card

they align themselves with the left wing
they use the same tactics
they want the same control

sure, so do the neo-nazis
lump them all together
is all I am saying

take the American Republican Party as "the right wing"
and look at what they say on the RNC website


Republican Principles

I BELIEVE the strength of our nation lies with the individual and that each person’s dignity, freedom, ability and responsibility must be honored.

I BELIEVE in equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, sex, age or disability.

I BELIEVE free enterprise and encouraging individual initiative have brought this nation opportunity, economic growth and prosperity.

I BELIEVE government must practice fiscal responsibility and allow individuals to keep more of the money they earn.

I BELIEVE the proper role of government is to provide for the people only those critical functions that cannot be performed by individuals or private organizations, and that the best government is that which governs least.

you think ANY of those groups aspire to these ?

335 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:09:16pm
336 [deleted]  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:12:15pm
337 Jimmah  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:26:45pm

re: #334 Adrenalyn

all those groups espouse a focus that THEIR group is special, elevated above all others

So, by your definition Preston Women's Group and Day Centre is just like the nazis too (and thereby a bunch of raving commie pinkos)? Get real.

And the republican party does not define everything on the spectrum of the right any more than the democrat party defines everything on the spectrum of the left. There are extremes outsude both on each wing that are not the responsibility of either party. So why bother with the denials? A similary denialist lefty could argue all day about how Stalin violated every progressive left wing principle that they hold dear and so really should be considered a part of the authoritarian right - but what would be the point?

338 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:29:38pm

re: #336 Iron Fist

Fascists are quite good at adapting to fit a niche so long as it suits their purposes. In both Italy and Germany, the fascists/nazis had to form coalitions to gain power. It's one of the reasons the current euro-fascists can't be trusted when they say they support Israel. Riiiight. Politically, it's hyper-evolution. The fascists will quickly "evolve" into whatever political beast underneath can survive. The outside is shiny and "clean" but under the surface it's the same rabid wolf.

339 thabo  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:41:22pm

scary stuff this,

...just remember one thing...

in the UK thee are the serious broad-page newspapers and the tabloids, and then there are tabloids which depict themselves as serious newspapers.

the Mail is one of those... most articles, while interesting or entertaining must be read with a good deal of skepticism

340 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 1:58:06pm

re: #307 tster

I agree with this, but the problem is that the articles repeated use of the words "far-right" make it sound like it's the beliefs which are causing the violence. If this were a muslim group thew article probably would have used the world "Muslim" either 0 or 1 times, therefore making it seem like an unimportant fact.

I think the key word here is 'far' rather than 'right'.

341 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 2:04:01pm

re: #337 Jimmah

So, by your definition Preston Women's Group and Day Centre is just like the nazis too (and thereby a bunch of raving commie pinkos)? Get real.

And the republican party does not define everything on the spectrum of the right any more than the democrat party defines everything on the spectrum of the left. There are extremes outsude both on each wing that are not the responsibility of either party. So why bother with the denials? A similary denialist lefty could argue all day about how Stalin violated every progressive left wing principle that they hold dear and so really should be considered a part of the authoritarian right - but what would be the point?

ok, I will talk s l o w e r

I am talking about the A m e r i c a n R i g h t
I assume everyone sees "right wing" and associates it with the American right wing/republicans
at least everyone in America, the target audience here
and in the American media

I don't like the American right to be lumped along with those whackos
and the FMSM does that quite well, "we" don't need to help them

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 2:06:26pm

re: #308 ointmentfly

Right..... MJ's kids thought he was Ward Cleaver.....

I don't know why, but it scares me that he decided to raise three very white children.

I mean, it scares me that Michael Jackson was raising kids at all, regardless of color.

But it also scares me that he went to such trouble to have these kids essentially made for him. Didn't father them, didn't adopt them--and they're so very white--and at the same time he was busy bleaching and carving his own black face out of existence...it freaks me out. I feel as though the kids were representations of what he thought a 'real' child looked like.

The depths of this man's psychological messed-upped-ness just freaks me out. Am I reading too much into this detail?

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 2:07:26pm

re: #309 Adrenalyn

international far right groups ?

is Sarah Palin a member ?
George Bush (sr & jr)
Ronald Reagan, was he a member of this international far right ?

no no no no
above are American right wingers
and have nothing to do with these people whatsoever

None of those people are 'far right'. They're conservatives, they may be 'right wing', but they are not 'far right'.

344 oh_dude  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 2:16:29pm

There's certianly a delicious side-effect for Hollywood and the media at large with the propogation of stories like these...

It reinforces the long-held supposition that anyone who his white and NOT a leftitst (or believes in silly things like God) is evil. That all whites are racist and supremacists.

I mean, look at all of the movies and TV shows being pumped out lately. If the story calls for a villian, guess who gets the staring role? Will we ever see a movie in which the villian that is not a white chistrian male or a group of white christian males? Ever?

Hollywood can point to stories like these and say... "See! See! We were right!"

345 Sharmuta  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 2:46:33pm

re: #172 tster

Have you read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg? Not exactly a political-science light-weight.

Revisionism.

346 Jimmah  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 5:45:08pm

re: #341 Adrenalyn

ok, I will talk s l o w e r

I am talking about the A m e r i c a n R i g h t
I assume everyone sees "right wing" and associates it with the American right wing/republicans
at least everyone in America, the target audience here
and in the American media

I don't like the American right to be lumped along with those whackos
and the FMSM does that quite well, "we" don't need to help them

You can drop the weak attempt at condescension. You were clearly talking about general features of left wing versus right wing thought, not confined only to America - see your post #311.

And even if you had been talking exclusively about American politics all along, my points are still valid.

347 Flavia  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 5:54:38pm

re: #67 tster

Are you saying Napolean, Stalin and FDR were not nationalists?

They were also all men, too. Does this mean that all men are nationalists?

Your desperation is showing.

348 Walk Not So Softly  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:56:04pm

Sharmuta,

When you're done checking for Fascists and Revisonists under your bed, can you please check under mine? I want to go to sleep in a few.

/sarc off

349 Aisha  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 8:56:10pm

Aisha thinks that there is a way to deal with this.

First, you buy some super-glue and glue up the rear-private part. Inside the hole, and the cheeks too.

Then you feed these people laxettes, castor oil, the works. That is what we do with the homosexuals perverts in Islam. And you kaffir say the Ummah is not creative! We are very good at innovative punishments. We should punish severely those who mock at Islam, whether by attacking the Muslims or by having another religion. Allah Knows best.

350 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:34:36pm

re: #344 oh_dude

There's certianly a delicious side-effect for Hollywood and the media at large with the propogation of stories like these...

It reinforces the long-held supposition that anyone who his white and NOT a leftitst (or believes in silly things like God) is evil. That all whites are racist and supremacists.

I mean, look at all of the movies and TV shows being pumped out lately. If the story calls for a villian, guess who gets the staring role? Will we ever see a movie in which the villian that is not a white chistrian male or a group of white christian males? Ever?

Hollywood can point to stories like these and say... "See! See! We were right!"

I agree, look to episode #1 of "24"
where a white person tries to set off a nuke
when the usual suspect in this would have been (considering the time the show ran) a muslim

351 Adrenalyn  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:42:36pm

re: #346 Jimmah

You can drop the weak attempt at condescension. You were clearly talking about general features of left wing versus right wing thought, not confined only to America - see your post #311.

And even if you had been talking exclusively about American politics all along, my points are still valid.

your points:
extreme right wingers in America are the only ones with national pride
(see Ron Silver's comment to Bill Clinton 1-20-2003 "those are OUR planes now mister president")
see google's sudden patriotism, etc.....

ethnic pride: via LaRaza, NAACP, CAIR, etc.
nope, none of them have ever espoused anti-white sentiments, it's not part of their basic tenets to exclude people NOT like them or goals of world domination or return of California to Mexico

as for condescention: no, not at all
sarcasm perhaps, not condescention

I just don't see why people insist on furthering the politically correct stereotype that only whites can be portrayed as bad and no other "race" (race being in the eye of the beheader, as far
as "the muslim race/CAIR is concerned - for example)

352 barflytom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:11:11pm

Do you really have to refer to lunatic Nazi type nutters as "far right" ?
It just plays into the hands of liberals.
Remember how the BBC, when the soviet union was disintegrating, used to refer to the hard-line communists who opposed Yeltsin and other reformers as "conservatives".
The BNP for instance advocate a whole range of idiot socialist policies which Obama would be proud of, but they're "far right". That doesn't leave a lot of room in the lefty/righty spectrum to describe Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher - or Warren G Harding for that matter, does it ?
How about "small government patriots" vs "big government xenophobes" ?

353 Barflytom  Tue, Jul 7, 2009 11:21:55pm

..I should have said "small government patriots" vs "big government racists", since that covers Obama, the BNP and others much better.

354 Sharmuta  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:05:26am

re: #348 Walk Not So Softly

LOL

355 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:06:19am

When did it become a Republican talking point to simply deny that right wing extremism exists, or to attempt to redefine the terms to turn it into left wing extremism?

Seriously, this is a little pathetic to see so much outright denial of obvious, uncontroversial facts. The groups that are the subject of the article linked above are right wing extremists, no matter how much frantic spinning takes place.

356 Adrenalyn  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 10:56:59am

re: #355 Charles

When did it become a Republican talking point to simply deny that right wing extremism exists, or to attempt to redefine the terms to turn it into left wing extremism?

Seriously, this is a little pathetic to see so much outright denial of obvious, uncontroversial facts. The groups that are the subject of the article linked above are right wing extremists, no matter how much frantic spinning takes place.

would you be happy if we just disavowed them from our camp ?

I mean, those of us naysayers (at least myself) don't consider them part of our right wing conspiracy as we don't behave that way or condone anyone who does
unlike the American left who celebrate scandal and violence, when done by their people, to ours
for example:why is Clinton so popular (Nixon at least went away in shame)
why does the media get away with making all republicans seem like wife cheaters and whoremongers when democrats get a free pass
how did Marion Barry, William Jefferson, Ted Kennedy, etc. get re-elected over and over

that is all I believe the contrarians are saying
maybe it is just venting frustration
but we don't consider them "us" is what it boils down to perhaps
and this seems to give the left another point to hammer us with

357 Barflytom  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 3:13:18pm

re: #355 Charles

I hate to harp on about this, but I think I know what you mean by describing groups as "far right" or "right wing extremists". What the BBC and others would like people to think when those terms are used is "unpleasant racists who are just very slightly more right wing than the Tory party".

The BNP is a mostly blue collar party with mostly statist, left wing policies who would also no doubt like to lynch black people if they could get away with it. Can't we call them "traditionalist Democrats" !

The term "far right" may be uncontroversial, because it's now in common usage to describe a wide range of nutjobs, some of whom may indeed qualify as "right wing" in some way, but a lot of them don't.
When the MSM is full of references to "progressive terrorists" or "left wing Islamists" I'll stop whingeing about conservatives getting stuck on the same "wing" as the BNP.

358 Salamantis  Wed, Jul 8, 2009 9:31:45pm

re: #357 Barflytom

I hate to harp on about this, but I think I know what you mean by describing groups as "far right" or "right wing extremists". What the BBC and others would like people to think when those terms are used is "unpleasant racists who are just very slightly more right wing than the Tory party".

The BNP is a mostly blue collar party with mostly statist, left wing policies who would also no doubt like to lynch black people if they could get away with it. Can't we call them "traditionalist Democrats" !

The term "far right" may be uncontroversial, because it's now in common usage to describe a wide range of nutjobs, some of whom may indeed qualify as "right wing" in some way, but a lot of them don't.
When the MSM is full of references to "progressive terrorists" or "left wing Islamists" I'll stop whingeing about conservatives getting stuck on the same "wing" as the BNP.

There are all kinds of collectivist totalitarianisms; they differ in what rationales they employ in oder to attempt to justify their collectivist totalitarianism.

The fascist right employs racial purity and supremacy, the communist left employs the erasure of class distinctions, and fundamentalist theocracies employ some religious dogma or other.

The opposite of collecivist totalitarianism is individualist anarchism, and they don't employ rationales for government, because they don't believe in government at all.

Copnstitutional democratic republics such as the US inhabit the sweet spot sensible center mean between collectivist and individualist extremes, recognizing the necessity for a central government to perform the constitutional functions of forming a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, insuring domestic Tranquility, providing for the common defence, promoting the general Welfare, and securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, accept such a central government with the provisio that it be of the People, by the People, and for the People. For all of this to happen, there has to be some way to coalesce the aggregate of individual wills into collective national directions. Thus elections are regularly held in order to populate that central government with officials that will enact the policies that the majority of the people desire (and when those officials refuse to do so, they are typically not re-elected), and constitutional guarantees of basic civil and political rights for all are enshrined in order to protect minorities fom majority tyranny.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh