The Ham Scandal That Wasn’t

Politics • Views: 1,594

Drudge Report has a big headline up, suggesting that the government spent over a million dollars to buy one 2 pound sliced ham.

Fail.

The references to “2 pound frozen ham sliced” are to the sizes of the packaging. Press reports suggesting that the Recovery Act spent $1.191 million to buy “2 pounds of ham” are wrong. In fact, the contract in question purchased 760,000 pounds of ham for $1.191m, at a cost of approximately $1.50 per pound. In terms of the dairy purchase referenced, USDA’s Farm Service Agency (FSA) purchased 837,936 pounds of mozzarella cheese and 4,039,200 pounds of processed cheese.

While the principal purpose of these expenditures is to provide food to those hardest hit by these tough times, the purchases also provide a modest economic benefit of benefiting Americans working at food retailers, manufacturers and transportation companies as well as the farmers and ranchers who produce our food supply.

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480 comments
1 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:33:44am

The Ham Scandal That Wasn't

Oh, but it inspired so many puns and Burma Shaves in the last thread!

2 MandyManners  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:33:45am

I hope this ham isn't a bone of contention for long.

3 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:34:15am

*Cry Hamhock and let slip the Hogs of War*

4 CIA Reject  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:35:06am

Mine eyes glaze over...

5 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:35:11am

heh, found, read, and quickly debunked by a few lizards in the overnight thread. Some people like screaming about anything. I guess most people are still ticked about that $70,000 toilet seat in the 80's.

6 KenJen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:35:35am

Hamgate-not.

7 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:35:38am

I think this outrage has been properly cured.

8 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:35:41am

Yet, those details were omitted from the Recovery.gov website, requiring further inquiries to determine what was going on with these purchases. Nice.

The same thing goes for the $1.4 million door replacement. The actual items and their costs are hidden away, but even with the door replacement, there's more than meets the eye.

The door replacement in question is a hangar door, but the Defense Department said it would cost $246,000, so additional work is being done - but not provided in the Recovery.gov information.

9 LionofDixon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:36:23am

Still, the government, in their inimitable way, paid nearly double the going price for Ham. Waste, fraud, corruption, incompetence. It's all there in your federal government....you know, the ones that now want to make your health care decisions.

10 Stuart Leviton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:36:23am

Hey. That's not kosher.

11 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:36:45am

I don't eat cured meat since I don't know what it was sick from in the first place......
/

12 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:36:58am

re: #8 lawhawk

I bet most of the costs in the hangar door are the installation costs. It's not some entry door that anyone can hang.

13 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:37:31am

Amazingly stupid. A lot of right wing blogs bought into this too. Didn't they think someone might google it? These easily debunked scandals are just self defeating. I don't get the impulse that drives ODS sufferers to continually embarrass and discredit themselves. I guess they just can't help it.

14 Dahveed  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:37:58am

The government is spending so much money one would think they can at least pay attention to what they are doing.

15 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:38:08am

Astroturfing

16 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:38:24am

As I head to work, I want to leave saying thank you to everyone here who has done their part to knock down this absurd story. Special thanks to pianobuff, avanti, and of course Charles. Thanks guys, talk to you tonight.

17 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:39:19am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Amazingly stupid. A lot of right wing blogs bought into this too. Didn't they think someone might google it? These easily debunked scandals are just self defeating. I don't get the impulse that drives ODS sufferers to continually embarrass and discredit themselves. I guess they just can't help it.

Like mosquitoes to the bug zapper.

18 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:39:27am

The scandal is that the ham wasn't honeybaked.

19 LionOfDixon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:40:30am

"Agriculture Department purchases hams for disaster relief; Jews hardest hit."

20 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:40:35am

I think the headline indicates pretty clearly that there's more to the story, it's one in a list, and there is that ubiquitous dot dot dot showing more to come...
Guess someone could scan it, run with it literally, and hyperventilate, but probably not Lizards.

21 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:41:40am

re: #5 BlueCanuck

heh, found, read, and quickly debunked by a few lizards in the overnight thread. Some people like screaming about anything. I guess most people are still ticked about that $70,000 toilet seat in the 80's.

do you seriously think anybody fell for that headline?

22 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:42:31am

I hate it when stories get debunked before I've even heard them.

23 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:42:50am
at a cost of approximately $1.50 per pound

Has fact checking on the right gone the way of the dodo?

24 MandyManners  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:42:59am

And, now, for something completely different.

Youtube Video
25 KenJen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:43:05am

Time for lunch. Spam sandwich anyone? There is ham in Spam right?

26 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:44:00am

re: #9 LionofDixon

Still, the government, in their inimitable way, paid nearly double the going price for Ham. Waste, fraud, corruption, incompetence. It's all there in your federal government....you know, the ones that now want to make your health care decisions.

Oh, but don't question that! We can't criticize excess spending or we'll be accused of taking orders from Ron Paul.

//

27 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:44:25am

I once made a $65.00 sandwich for Paul Newman.

28 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:44:57am

I hope this stops soon before it spirals out of control./

29 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:45:08am

ODS does not need fuel.

30 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:45:08am

re: #26 Wendya

Oh, but don't question that! We can't criticize excess spending or we'll be accused of taking orders from Ron Paul.

//

Audit the pig farmers!!!!
/

31 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:45:11am

re: #27 Ringo the Gringo

Not bad. I have seen $65 dollar gourmet personal pizzas. :)

32 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:45:31am

re: #26 Wendya

Oh, but don't question that! We can't criticize excess spending or we'll be accused of taking orders from Ron Paul.

//

Why the sarcasm tag. You were 100 percent correct. In my opinion, no sarcasm needed. Now, if you said you would be accused of seething and raging and squabbling, then you would be even more correct.

33 LionOfDixon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:45:50am

Funny how taxpayers have to dole out for ham, yet Bill Clinton got his porcine fill free from his intern.

34 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:45:56am

re: #13 Killgore Trout
Y'all might want to check lawhawk's #8 there Killgore.
And I reckon Drudge is just gonna have to keep posting things like this to get that "transparent" government Obama was supposed to provide.
You'll note that the site Charles linked to was updated today in response to Drudge.

35 zipity  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:46:10am

Of course, lest we forget, like any good Government Program they did spend twice what they had to..... [Link: tinyurl.com...] ..... And I'm guessing you might get an even better price, if you are buying 3/4 of a million pounds, since there would probably a "Quantity Discount"....heh

36 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:46:48am

re: #23 Sharmuta

Has fact checking on the right gone the way of the dodo?

it's a nation wide malaise

37 ihateronpaul  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:46:54am

This is what I assumed when I first saw the headline. Shockingly enough matt drudge chose sensationalism over journalistic ethics.

38 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:47:01am

re: #27 Ringo the Gringo

I once made a $65.00 sandwich for Paul Newman.

Was it the two of you and a woman, or the two of you and another man?

Must've been a while ago, if that only ran him $65. The current going rate is much higher.

Or so I've heard.

39 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:47:04am

re: #33 LionOfDixon

Funny how taxpayers have to dole out for ham, yet Bill Clinton got his porcine fill free from his intern.

He was just taking Monica's temperature in an unconventional way, really...

/well, no dur....

40 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:47:16am

re: #3 LGoPs

*Cry Hamhock and let slip the Hogs of War*

It's been done before--but it's still a good one.

I was mortadellfied by that original story in Drudge-- I feared the wurst.

41 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:47:36am

re: #10 Stuart Leviton

Hey. That's not kosher.

It ain't halal, either!

42 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:47:52am

re: #38 JamesTKirk

Was it the two of you and a woman, or the two of you and another man?

Must've been a while ago, if that only ran him $65. The current going rate is much higher.

Or so I've heard.

It was a '60's thing.

43 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:48:02am

re: #25 KenJen

Time for lunch. Spam sandwich anyone? There is ham in Spam right?


Uh, no one really knows what's in Spam - it's a closely guarded secret recipe by Hormel!
/

44 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:48:08am

Where was Miss Piggy in all this? I hear she goes for quite a lot, and she's certainly a ham.

45 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:48:17am

Peeps need to do a little research before squealing.

46 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:48:21am

re: #37 ihateronpaul

This is what I assumed when I first saw the headline. Shockingly enough matt drudge chose sensationalism over journalistic ethics.

it's just a link dump

47 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:48:55am

re: #42 calcajun

It was a '60's thing.

Was too much LDS involved?

48 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:48:57am

re: #43 realwest

Uh, no one really knows what's in Spam - it's a closely guarded secret recipe by Hormel!
/

Why is Spam in a square can?

So it can't be confused with dog food.

49 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:09am

re: #44 Kosh's Shadow

Where was Miss Piggy in all this? I hear she goes for quite a lot, and she's certainly a ham.

She gave her life for the good of our country.

/now, let's bow our heads in a moment of silence

50 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:09am

re: #38 JamesTKirk

Was it the two of you and a woman, or the two of you and another man?

Must've been a while ago, if that only ran him $65. The current going rate is much higher.

Or so I've heard.

Not that kind of sandwich!

Actually it was Norwegian smoked salmon, cream cheese and caviar...on a baguette.

51 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:25am

re: #47 JamesTKirk

Was too much LDS involved?

Well . . .you know how those Mormons love to party./

52 littleoldlady  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:38am

How many hams is that?

/and can I substitute mine for corned beef?

53 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:40am

re: #49 Ward Cleaver

She gave her life for the good of our country.

/now, let's bow our heads in a moment of silence

And then eat? (Sorry, not kosher)

54 midwestgak  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:44am

re: #6 KenJen

Hamgate-not.

Hamelot. King Arthur would be proud.

55 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:49:55am

A good prosecutor could indite a ham scandal.

56 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:50:12am

re: #44 Kosh's Shadow

Where was Miss Piggy in all this?

She can't talk right now.

She has a frog in her throat.

57 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:50:19am

re: #45 Ward Cleaver

Peeps need to do a little research before squealing.

Peeps are sugar sculptures. They don't do research. They don't do anything except scare the wits out of those of us who watch them sit decoratively in relatives' homes for decades.

58 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:50:23am

re: #48 calcajun

Why is Spam in a square can?

So it can't be confused with dog food.

I thought the square cans fit in the longboats cargo holds better.

/bloody vikings

59 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:50:26am

re: #36 albusteve

it's a nation wide malaise

It's as if the rightosphere doesn't care about intellectual honesty. Employing the tactics of the far left, but adapting them to the right isn't the answer to what ails the conservative movement.

60 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:50:57am

re: #57 Dianna

Peeps are sugar sculptures. They don't do research. They don't do anything except scare the wits out of those of us who watch them sit decoratively in relatives' homes for decades.

I had an ex girlfriend who actually ate them. I should have known then . .

61 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:51:03am

re: #39 MrSilverDragon

He was just taking Monica's temperature in an unconventional way, really...

/well, no dur....

That's one heck of a thermometer.

62 Emperor Norton  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:51:21am

re: #47 JamesTKirk

Was too much LDS involved?

Yes, they used blotter Mormons.

63 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:51:24am

Regardless of per pound price, is government spending for sliced ham really a stimulus? With all the food assistance programs in play, why the need to buy sliced ham? Cherchez l'argent. Someone benefitted either the owners of the food processing, or a FOO (Friend of Obama) investor in a particular firm.

Still a waste. Still a fraud.

64 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:51:25am

re: #50 Ringo the Gringo

Not that kind of sandwich!

Actually it was Norwegian smoked salmon, cream cheese and caviar...on a baguette.

If you pay $65 or a samich, you are getting screwed.:)

65 Pianobuff  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:51:42am

It would be nice if the White House uses this as a learning opportunity to enhance the quality of info on the recovery.gov site. Unit Cost and Quantity are basic elements found in even the most childish of purchasing/contract review systems. I don't know how the White House missed such a basic item. Really.... a newbie type omission.

Seems like this could be added to the site relatively easily (unless God forbid they've botched the underlying system).

66 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:52:04am

re: #43 realwest

Uh, no one really knows what's in Spam - it's a closely guarded secret recipe by Hormel!
/

Pork shoulder.

67 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:52:05am

re: #62 Emperor Norton

Yes, they used blotter Mormons.

Not the Liquid Prophet?

68 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:52:13am

re: #54 midwestgak

Hamelot. King Arthur would be proud.

In short there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For peddling healthy pork products
Than here in Hamelot

69 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:52:29am

re: #66 Honorary Yooper

Pork shoulder.

Lips and hips, I heard.

70 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:53:04am

re: #60 Creeping Eruption

I had an ex girlfriend who actually ate them. I should have known then . .

A woman who'll eat Peeps will put anything in her mouth.

71 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:53:09am

re: #22 Ringo the Gringo

I hate it when stories get debunked before I've even heard them.

How is a story bunked BTW ?

72 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:53:24am

re: #70 JamesTKirk

Ew. Just...ew.

73 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:53:40am

re: #45 Ward Cleaver
Hey Ward - just thinking (typing) out loud here - why should peeps have to research how their tax/Recovery Act money is being spent?
I mean, I sorta understand with the Recovery (Stimulus Bill) money, cause no one in Congress read it or had time to read it before it was passed. But shouldn't we be entitled to rely on our congresscritters and the regulatory agencies who's salaries WE PAY to do that for us and to publish it in a way that we can understand without having to research it ourselves?
OR was this hoo-rah created by a misleading and/or distorted headline/story by Drudge?

74 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:53:47am

So now instread of just government cheese, we can get government ham and cheese.

75 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:53:54am

re: #69 Dianna

Lips and hips, I heard.

Everything but the squeal

76 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:54:01am

Guess I'm not sure what the ham purchase was supposed to accomplish.

From the administration's response:

While the principal purpose of these expenditures is to provide food to those hardest hit by these tough times, the purchases also provide a modest economic benefit of benefiting Americans working at food retailers, manufacturers and transportation companies as well as the farmers and ranchers who produce our food supply.

Okay, just some quick questions for the administration: Do you have in place the mechanism to deliver these hams to "those hardest hit"? Do you even know who they are? Is there a reason to believe these hams would have gone unsold, and if so, why?

How about this: Economic decisions are made by millions of people, millions of times, each day. There is not now, nor has there ever been, the ability of government to track these decisions and make effective choices.

You know who probably has a good idea of who needs hams, and where they are? The local supermarkets, not the recovery board.

77 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:54:33am

re: #74 Son of the Black Dog

So now instread of just government cheese, we can get government ham and cheese.

Double plus non-kosher ungood!

78 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:54:48am

Since this thread is food-related:

Top 10 Most Unusual State Fair Foods

[Link: www.delish.com...]

79 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:54:53am

re: #69 Dianna

Lips and hips, I heard.

Yep, it's pork shoulder with ham meat added.

I actually do like Spam, cooked on the grill. Then again, I also like octopus and hate catsup.

80 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:54:55am

re: #70 JamesTKirk

A woman who'll eat Peeps will put anything in her mouth.

Um . . . you ain't kidding.

81 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:55:02am

re: #48 calcajun
LOL! But I have to admit to having developed a fondness for Spam while in the service! It always looked and tasted the same!

82 jvic  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:55:03am

re: #37 ihateronpaul

This is what I assumed when I first saw the headline. Shockingly enough matt drudge chose sensationalism over journalistic ethics.

1. Was that too good to check, Matt Drudge?

2. Give Drudge some credit: he does link to the govt press release.

3. I hope the Administration will respond to emergencies as fast as they reacted to cover their butts.

83 semper gumbi  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:55:09am

Hey, misunderstood story or not, it still made the Knucleheads in the News at WTOP in DC. Won, too.

84 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:55:27am

re: #71 avanti

How is a story bunked BTW ?

I guess the same way people are gruntled.

85 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:55:45am

re: #74 Son of the Black Dog

So now instread of just government cheese, we can get government ham and cheese.

To brie or not to brie.

86 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:03am

re: #56 JamesTKirk
OK, I gave ya an upding for that, but I'm telling you that was BAAAAD!
But funny!

87 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:17am

re: #57 Dianna

Peeps are sugar sculptures. They don't do research. They don't do anything except scare the wits out of those of us who watch them sit decoratively in relatives' homes for decades.

For fun entertainment on a rainy day, put a peep in the microwave on high. They expand too enormous size. If you leave them in too long, they'll catch on fire, so keep an eye on them.

There are entire pages and YouTube videos devoted to peep torture of various kinds. Google will enlighten you on the topic.

88 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:19am

re: #79 MrSilverDragon

Yep, it's pork shoulder with ham meat added.

I actually do like Spam, cooked on the grill. Then again, I also like octopus and hate catsup.

Spam, to me, is an abomination. There's so much salt in it, my tongue shrivels just thinking about it.

Of course, my family went through bad patch, financially, and thus we ate a lot of Spam, so part of that is bound to be association with a bad time.

89 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:21am

re: #59 Sharmuta

It's as if the rightosphere doesn't care about intellectual honesty. Employing the tactics of the far left, but adapting them to the right isn't the answer to what ails the conservative movement.

too many fringe issues, too many lunatics...if the middle does not get off their ass and push bigger numbers then it's them who will have tossed it all away...I don't care so much what the blogs are saying but the line between them and elected officials is rapidly blurring...I just don't have much confidence in the GOP...traditional conservatives just don't seem to care anymore

90 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:28am

re: #84 BlueCanuck

I guess the same way people are gruntled.

I often compliment people by telling them they look kempt and sheveled.........

91 Big Sam  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:35am

The problem is that the concept of a big system is to save money. However, when the government is involved contract specs are often written in a way to exclude competition (often by bureaucrats who work with preferred suppliers - or have terms dictacted to them to do so from above). As a result a few vendors bid at highly inflated prices. That is why you pay at over twice the market rate for a product that you should be getting a bulk discount for.

Sam S.

92 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:36am

In honor of the ham and spam,

Youtube Video
etc...
93 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:39am

re: #80 Creeping Eruption

Um . . . you ain't kidding.

TMI! TMI!

94 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:50am

re: #79 MrSilverDragon

Well someone that hates catsup can't be all bad. But grilled spam? Don't you know it's best fried?

95 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:56:56am

re: #84 BlueCanuck

I guess the same way people are gruntled.

I'm currently being bobulated.

96 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:27am

re: #71 avanti

How is a story bunked BTW ?

when it is released to the press from the WH

97 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:42am

re: #86 realwest

OK, I gave ya an upding for that, but I'm telling you that was BAAAAD!
But funny!

You should expect nothing less (or more) from me.

98 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:49am

re: #63 Russkilitlover

Regardless of per pound price, is government spending for sliced ham really a stimulus? With all the food assistance programs in play, why the need to buy sliced ham? Cherchez l'argent. Someone benefitted either the owners of the food processing, or a FOO (Friend of Obama) investor in a particular firm.

Still a waste. Still a fraud.

I don't think it's a stimulus, but I wouldn't call it a waste or a fraud either. I think it's but for the Grace of God I don't need any of it. Might be some hungry kids with an unemployed parent that need it though.

99 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:50am

re: #81 realwest

LOL! But I have to admit to having developed a fondness for Spam while in the service! It always looked and tasted the same!

I like Spam too.

Fried Spam slices with two eggs, over medium, served on a plie of steamed white rice.

The breakfast of champions!....and Hawaiians, and Filipinos.

100 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:51am

I never took the headline as $1,190,000 for one slice...did others? I assumed it was for a large quantity of ham...that being said, Drudge points out that you can buy ham for 79 cents per pound at Food Lion which is half of what the gov paid.

101 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:53am

re: #78 Mad Al-Jaffee

Since this thread is food-related:

Top 10 Most Unusual State Fair Foods

[Link: www.delish.com...]

Hell, I need an angioplasty after just looking at those pictures.

102 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:57:53am

re: #57 Dianna

Peeps are sugar sculptures. They don't do research. They don't do anything except scare the wits out of those of us who watch them sit decoratively in relatives' homes for decades.

They do, however, give their lives for the sake of science.

Peep Research

Then there's the microwave torture for Peeps.

Youtube Video
103 Pianobuff  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:08am

re: #91 Big Sam

The problem is that the concept of a big system is to save money. However, when the government is involved contract specs are often written in a way to exclude competition (often by bureaucrats who work with preferred suppliers - or have terms dictacted to them to do so from above). As a result a few vendors bid at highly inflated prices. That is why you pay at over twice the market rate for a product that you should be getting a bulk discount for.

Sam S.

And to your point.... Drudge front page update says:

Agriculture Sec. Vilsack: 'Purchased 760,000 Lbs of ham at cost of approximately $1.50 per pound'...

FOOD LION: $.79 Lb...

104 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:09am
While the principal purpose of these expenditures is to provide food to those hardest hit by these tough times, the purchases also provide a modest economic benefit of benefiting Americans working at food retailers, manufacturers and transportation companies as well as the farmers and ranchers who produce our food supply.

Imagine the economic benefit of allowing the Americans working in the above industries to keep their tax dollars in the first place and invest in themselves and their own businesses.

105 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:10am

re: #90 LGoPs

I often compliment people by telling them they look kempt and sheveled.........

And ept.

106 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:21am

re: #25 KenJen

Time for lunch. Spam sandwich anyone? There is ham in Spam right?

I like SPAM, please don't tell me what's in it.

107 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:23am

re: #56 JamesTKirk

She can't talk right now.

She has a frog in her throat.

I'm reminded of this joke:

Q. What's green and smells like pork?

A. Kermit's finger.

Please don't kill the messenger.

108 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #90 LGoPs

I often compliment people by telling them they look kempt and sheveled.........

and "full of gorm", for the Brits.

109 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:58:59am

I don't think salty processed meat helps the preventative medical care screed of the administration. Perhaps tofu would have been a better purchase. //

110 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:14am

re: #89 albusteve

too many fringe issues, too many lunatics...if the middle does not get off their ass and push bigger numbers then it's them who will have tossed it all away...I don't care so much what the blogs are saying but the line between them and elected officials is rapidly blurring...I just don't have much confidence in the GOP...traditional conservatives just don't seem to care anymore

Fiscal, Goldwater-styled conservatives haven't been given a reason to care since 1994.

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:17am

Back in the day, my mom was occasionally able to get her hands on some Government cheese (don't know how). But, it does make really good grilled cheese sandwiches.

112 Pianobuff  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:23am

re: #100 Charpete67

I never took the headline as $1,190,000 for one slice...did others? I assumed it was for a large quantity of ham...that being said, Drudge points out that you can buy ham for 79 cents per pound at Food Lion which is half of what the gov paid.

I wonder how much it costs at the ....... ......... Piggly Wiggly.... (da da boom).

113 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:32am

Let them eat ham...

114 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:47am

re: #74 Son of the Black Dog

So now instread of just government cheese, we can get government ham and cheese.

But where's the rye?

115 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:49am

re: #76 subsailor68

Guess I'm not sure what the ham purchase was supposed to accomplish.


Okay, just some quick questions for the administration: Do you have in place the mechanism to deliver these hams to "those hardest hit"? Do you even know who they are? Is there a reason to believe these hams would have gone unsold, and if so, why?

This is the core of this kerfluffle. No matter what excuse the Administration comes up with, the only real question is "Why."

I would really like the answers to your questions. I'd also like someone to actually ask these questions of the Administration.

116 jaunte  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 9:59:59am

re: #109 Baier

It does seem a little off message.

117 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:00:13am

re: #103 Pianobuff

And to your point.... Drudge front page update says:

Agriculture Sec. Vilsack: 'Purchased 760,000 Lbs of ham at cost of approximately $1.50 per pound'...

FOOD LION: $.79 Lb...

Is that for sliced ham though? Pre-sliced does cost more than whole ham.

118 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:00:50am

re: #110 Sharmuta

Fiscal, Goldwater-styled conservatives haven't been given a reason to care since 1994.

well that's me...I feel abandoned, and for damned good reason

119 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:00:51am

re: #116 jaunte

It does seem a little off message.

Yeah, it struck me that way to.
What is a secret Muslim doing buying tons and tons of ham?//

120 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:01:00am

re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heh. My younger brother lived off gov't cheese while doing construction work. Granma used to get a 5lb block a week.

121 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:01:14am

re: #66 Honorary Yooper
NOW WHY DIDJA HAVE TO GIVE THAT AWAY?!?
Actually it's not just pork shoulder. Way too much sugar in the curing and the ribbon edge around it.

122 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:01:34am

re: #55 Son of the Black Dog

A good prosecutor prosciutto could indite a ham scandal.

123 WaveriderCA  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:01:44am

Whats all the outrage about? Drudge linked to villsack's response shortly after.

"While the principal purpose of these expenditures is to provide food to those hardest hit by these tough times, the purchases also provide a modest economic benefit of benefiting Americans working at food retailers, manufacturers and transportation companies as well as the farmers and ranchers who produce our food supply."

I forgot about the overpriced ham contribution to infrastructure. My bad.

124 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:01:56am

re: #103 Pianobuff

You have to pick it up at Food Lion. Possible it is the delivered price?

125 midwestgak  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:18am

re: #106 avanti

I like SPAM, please don't tell me what's in it.

Okay. Don't thik about chopped pork shoulder meat with ham, salt, water, sugar or sodium nitrite. Then you'll be fine.

126 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:23am

re: #100 Charpete67

I never took the headline as $1,190,000 for one slice...did others? I assumed it was for a large quantity of ham...that being said, Drudge points out that you can buy ham for 79 cents per pound at Food Lion which is half of what the gov paid.

Yes, but like any government program, the documentation is huge.
760,000 lbs of ham, 1,620,000 lbs of documentation.
//////////

127 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:26am

Consumer goods (food, clothes, etc.) are almost never effectively distributed by the government (See: Hurricane Katrina). This is why I want them handling the smallest part of the economy possible.

128 Grand Poobah  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:27am

The whole stimulus is a scandal and a waste of money. Drudge got that bit right.

129 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:35am

re: #121 realwest

NOW WHY DIDJA HAVE TO GIVE THAT AWAY?!?
Actually it's not just pork shoulder. Way too much sugar in the curing and the ribbon edge around it.

Take this as you will: From What SPAM is Made.

130 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:37am

Ham? I LOVE IT!

/The Great Vorelli, evil ventriloquist

131 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:38am

re: #100 Charpete67

I never took the headline as $1,190,000 for one slice...did others?

Yes, several blogs ran with the story that it was for one ham, including Instapundit.

132 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:38am

re: #104 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know. The fact that he closed with that treacly reference to "trickle down" benefits is the capper.
"Well, duh, Mr. Secretary, don't you think it would have been better to let people keep more of their own money so that it could have had the same effect without spending hundreds of billions of yet-to-be-earned dollars???"

133 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:47am

re: #121 realwest
Spam ingredients are a secret. My dad says he knows, he used to work in a packing/slaughter house as a kid and will not eat bologna or hotdogs and spam is right out!

134 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:53am

re: #103 Pianobuff

And to your point.... Drudge front page update says:

Agriculture Sec. Vilsack: 'Purchased 760,000 Lbs of ham at cost of approximately $1.50 per pound'...

FOOD LION: $.79 Lb...

Actually, this is hard to criticize. It's supposed to be a stimulus bill, after all; it's one of the few times when government overspending is desirable.

But I question the reasons for the expenditures themselves. Many seem to be masking what ought to be ordinary government budget expenditures, which will make hash out of predictions of future need and costs, since items paid for with the stimulus are effectively "off the books" and invisible to ordinary budgetary scrutiny.

I'm betting that this distortion will be touted as "savings" in the budget for the next couple of years, at least, conveniently ignoring the huge bloc of deficit spending that made it possible because it's sitting over on a completely different spreadsheet.

135 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:02:58am

re: #74 Son of the Black Dog

So now instread of just government cheese, we can get government ham and cheese.


Next up - Rye Bread and Mustard! Watch for it!

136 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:00am

We'll know it's bad when the food shelves are stocked with sliced unicorn.

137 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:12am

re: #98 Sharmuta

I don't think it's a stimulus, but I wouldn't call it a waste or a fraud either. I think it's but for the Grace of God I don't need any of it. Might be some hungry kids with an unemployed parent that need it though.

Oh, please! I don't think there is a man, woman, or child in America who, if really in need, could not find local assistance with in a 2 minute search. Why this specific purchase and where did it go? I'd like to hear the Admin's answers to Subsailors questions.

138 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:13am

Although, let's be honest, massive government waste is bipartisan.

139 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:15am

re: #131 Charles

Yes, several blogs ran with the story that it was for one ham, including Instapundit.

ah...didn't see that

140 KenJen  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:16am

re: #117 Honorary Yooper

Is that for sliced ham though? Pre-sliced does cost more than whole ham.

You can't expect people to slice their own ham, can you?
/

141 Pianobuff  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:33am

re: #117 Honorary Yooper

Is that for sliced ham though? Pre-sliced does cost more than whole ham.

Good point... didn't take note when I saw it earlier and now it the link takes you to a blank Food Lion page (at least for me). I thought I remembered that it was shank though.... is that cheapo ham?

142 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:38am

re: #84 BlueCanuck

I guess the same way people are gruntled.

or combobulated

143 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:46am

re: #120 pingjockey

Heh. My younger brother lived off gov't cheese while doing construction work. Granma used to get a 5lb block a week.

I grew up in a very economical diverse area and had Gov cheese at friends' houses. It just tasted like run of the mill supermarket cheddar, but not exceptionally bad.

144 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:48am

re: #103 Pianobuff

And to your point.... Drudge front page update says:

Agriculture Sec. Vilsack: 'Purchased 760,000 Lbs of ham at cost of approximately $1.50 per pound'...

FOOD LION: $.79 Lb...

Hi Pianobuff!! Exactly - almost twice the going rate for a single product. People may or may not agree with the idea of food stamps, but at least that program takes government out of specific purchase decisions (with some exceptions, I suppose). Those decisions are made between the purchaser (the person with the food stamps) and the provider (the grocery store).

In that way, the grocer knows what to stock, in what quantities, to avoid waste and the concurrent loss in revenue. The purchaser knows which products he or she needs to feed the family.

The government knows neither, but it doesn't matter. It has helped "those hardest hit" without ending up with a warehouse full of hams.

(Thank you Thomas Sowell!)

145 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:52am

I've read in the past (old newspaper article) that Hawaiians are the largest per capita consumers of SPAM in the US, a habit formed during WWII, because of the scarcity of fresh meat there during the war.

146 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:03:56am

re: #106 avanti

I like SPAM, please don't tell me what's in it.

Same as Soylent Green.

147 jaunte  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:10am

re: #126 Kosh's Shadow

Yes, but like any government program, the documentation is huge.
760,000 lbs of ham, 1,620,000 lbs of documentation.
//////////

More documentation = more "economic activity."
Print multiple copies, shred, attempt to repair shredder, buy new shredder. Run out of ink in printer...

148 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:17am

re: #136 Sharmuta

We'll know it's bad when the food shelves are stocked with sliced unicorn.

The horns make great glue I understand, and comes in many colors.

149 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:17am

re: #127 EmmmieG

Consumer goods (food, clothes, etc.) are almost never effectively distributed by the government (See: Hurricane Katrina). This is why I want them handling the smallest part of the economy possible.

Don't worry; the entire economy will be small by the time Obama and the Dems are through with it.

150 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:17am

re: #112 Pianobuff

I wonder how much it costs at the ....... ......... Piggly Wiggly.... (da da boom).

Here's the sale on Armour pre-sliced ham at Meijer this weekend: $4/lb, and Armour is decent ham. Carl Budding is 2/$5 for a 12oz package (approx. $3.33/lb). $1.50/lb for pre-sliced ham seems like a damn good deal.

151 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:39am

re: #135 realwest

Next up - Rye Bread and Mustard! Watch for it!

With liverwurst and red onion! YUM!

152 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:44am

re: #126 Kosh's Shadow

Yes, but like any government program, the documentation is huge.
760,000 lbs of ham, 1,620,000 lbs of documentation.
//////////

Maybe there'll soon be a ham Czar?

153 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:52am

re: #136 Sharmuta

We'll know it's bad when the food shelves are stocked with sliced unicorn.

I haven't been able to see unicorns for decades. I don't know what kind of sheltered life you've led...

154 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:04:54am

re: #131 Charles

Yes, several blogs ran with the story that it was for one ham, including Instapundit.

Actually, one ham is responsible, but he is going to end up costing us a lot more in the long run.

155 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:05:11am

re: #131 Charles

Yes, several blogs ran with the story that it was for one ham, including Instapundit.

Do your homework, Glenn.

I'll bet even after this revelation, some people will still send me forwarded emails about the "ham scandal".

156 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:05:12am

re: #152 Russkilitlover

Maybe there'll soon be a ham Czar?

Will he also get his hands on the jam jar?

157 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:05:25am

re: #103 Pianobuff

And to your point.... Drudge front page update says:

Agriculture Sec. Vilsack: 'Purchased 760,000 Lbs of ham at cost of approximately $1.50 per pound'...

FOOD LION: $.79 Lb...

Ham made to government specs. I'm surprised it ONLY cost twice as much.

158 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:05:35am

re: #135 realwest

Next up - Rye Bread and Mustard! Watch for it!

"Give me Hamm on five, hold the Mayo."
-Airplane!

159 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:05:50am

re: #156 EmmmieG

Will he also get his hands on the jam jar?

Ham czar caught with hands in jam jar?

160 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:05am

OT: Sci-fi movies featuring a villainess in a leather bondage suit... good or bad? Discuss.

161 saberry0530  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:07am

re: #146 opnion

Same as Soylent Green.

But with more salt!

162 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:09am

re: #142 Mad Al-Jaffee

or combobulated

Or, as George Carlin once remarked, cheese fondon't for those who do no like cheese fondue.

163 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:10am

re: #139 Charpete67

ah...didn't see that

that's the point of this thread

164 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:16am

re: #140 KenJen

You can't expect people to slice their own ham, can you?

Not in England, certainly, since they're slowly taking away peoples' rights to own knives, since gun control was such a (predictably) phenomenal failure at reducing crime.

165 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:24am

re: #121 realwest

NOW WHY DIDJA HAVE TO GIVE THAT AWAY?!?
Actually it's not just pork shoulder. Way too much sugar in the curing and the ribbon edge around it.

It's pork shoulder and ham with some salt, sugar, sodium nitrate, and water.

166 slartybartfast  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:50am

re: #110 Sharmuta

Fiscal, Goldwater-styled conservatives haven't been given a reason to care since 1994.

BTW, I'm about to launch into "The Conscience of a Conservative" based on your recommendation a few weeks ago. Just finishing "Four Days in July: The Story behind the Declaration of Independence" by Cornel Lengyel.

167 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:06:57am

re: #76 subsailor68
Hey sub! This was, I gather, and I think admirable attempt by the government to get food to food banks and "soup kitchens" for the poor and needy.
But I don't get this part of the official reply: "also provide a modest economic benefit of benefiting Americans working at food retailers","
Uh, what? How are workers at food retailers supposed to benefit from this?
I honestly don't understand that line at all.

168 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:01am

re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar

With liverwurst and red onion! YUM!

The government should tell people to practice safe lunch and use condiments.

169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:11am

re: #112 Pianobuff

I wonder how much it costs at the ....... ......... Piggly Wiggly.... (da da boom).

I would have liked to have been in the board meeting when they were picking the name of their grocery store chain.

170 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:12am

re: #157 Son of the Black Dog

Ham made to government specs. I'm surprised it ONLY cost twice as much.

I hope sliced ham buying wasn't a dry run for MRI buying.

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:16am

re: #159 Creeping Eruption

Ham czar caught with hands in jam jar?

Ham czar caught with hands in jam jar while riding on a tram car?

172 opnion  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:29am

re: #161 saberry0530

But with more salt!

Tastes like chicken, everything tastes like chicken.

173 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:32am

re: #145 Ward Cleaver

And because spam is so delicious served with pineapple!

174 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:37am

re: #160 Kenneth

OT: Sci-fi movies featuring a villainess in a leather bondage suit... good or bad? Discuss.

Can I be a minion please? Every good villainess needs a couple of minions.

175 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:54am

re: #147 jaunte

More documentation = more "economic activity."
Print multiple copies, shred, attempt to repair shredder, buy new shredder. Run out of ink in printer...

My wife is a lawyer, and that sounds like her office. We're on our third laser printer and third shredder, in 10 years, for a one-person office.
We're a Staples Rewards "Premier" member.
Which reminds me, I need to order her a new toner cartridge.

176 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:58am

re: #160 Kenneth

OT: Sci-fi movies featuring a villainess in a leather bondage suit... good or bad? Discuss.

Exactly what part of that could possibly be bad?

177 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:07:59am

re: #160 Kenneth

Very good, indeed.

178 Darwin Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:08:24am

You mean "them Jews" are buying all of that ham and they still won't invite the Rev. Wright over for a ham-and-cheese sandwich?

Did the government also buy $1 million worth of Levy's rye bread (w/ or w/our carroway seeds) for all of that ham-n-cheese?

....and if there are problems in delivering the ham on time, how long will it take for the problems to be cured?

179 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:08:34am

probably could have gotten a really good deal from the Egyptians...

[Link: www.smh.com.au...]

180 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:08:41am

re: #174 BlueCanuck

She's definitely minionable.

181 apachegunner  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:09:05am

re: #81 realwest

LOL! But I have to admit to having developed a fondness for Spam while in the service! It always looked and tasted the same!


as a bachlor for 17 years I loved Spam, cut in small squares browned and cooked with onions, green/red peppers and several spices. yummmmmmm

182 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:09:16am

re: #167 realwest

When prices are artificially decreased by the Gov't subsidy program, they'll get to enjoy their funemployment. It's a win-win!

183 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:09:25am

re: #120 pingjockey

Heh. My younger brother lived off gov't cheese while doing construction work. Granma used to get a 5lb block a week.

Soup lines
Free loaves of bread
Five pound blocks of cheese
Bags of groceries
Social Security, has run out on you and me
We do whatever we can
Gotta duck when the shit hits the fan

-The Circle Jerks

184 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:09:42am

re: #176 JamesTKirk

Exactly what part of that could possibly be bad?

The part wherein she can barely move, let alone fight full grown men.

If I hire a villainess to work for me, she'll wear the stuff martial artists wear.

185 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:09:56am

just in, Gates to increase the size of the Army by 20,000 troops.

186 loudguitars  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:07am

Charles, did your research discover that this purchase of ham was made at almost double the prevailing price (78 cents) per pound at your local grocery store for an equal product? Wasn't the stimulus for shovel ready job creating projects? Obama = Pork = epic fail

187 Tarkus289  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:11am

I am under the impression that when the Pentagon spends $70,000 for a toilet seat, it is just cover for some secret weapon system or undercover black-op situation, I could be wrong, but if I am not, I don't mind those expenses.

188 Sharmuta  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:15am

re: #137 Russkilitlover

Oh, please! I don't think there is a man, woman, or child in America who, if really in need, could not find local assistance with in a 2 minute search. Why this specific purchase and where did it go? I'd like to hear the Admin's answers to Subsailors questions.

Right- local food shelves are the ones getting the assistance:

"Through the Recovery Act, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has made $100 million available to the states for The Emergency Food Assistance Program (TEFAP), which acquires food that is distributed to local organizations that assist the needy – including food banks, food pantries, and soup kitchens.

189 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:22am

I thought BO was going to speak about health care on Wed....wrong...it will be in a few minutes, there is a link at Fox

190 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:32am

re: #176 JamesTKirk

Exactly what part of that could possibly be bad?

Be very careful. Obviously you are forgetting there was once a movie with Rosie Odonnel in a leather body suit.

191 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:34am

By the way, $1.50 a pound is a very good price for pre-sliced ham.

192 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:10:38am

re: #182 Lincolntf

When prices are artificially decreased by the Gov't subsidy program, they'll get to enjoy their funemployment. It's a win-win!

There's one word I despise more than funemployment.

Irregardless. Although syngergy and paradigm have crept up that list over the last few decades.

193 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:13am

re: #98 Sharmuta
Hi Shar! Uh, please see my #167.

194 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:17am

re: #106 avanti

I like SPAM, please don't tell me what's in it.

It can't be worse than scrapple.

195 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:25am

re: #190 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Be very careful. Obviously you are forgetting there was once a movie with Rosie Odonnel in a leather body suit.

I avoided ever seeing that movie. It does not exist for me.

196 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:34am

re: #189 albusteve

I thought BO was going to speak about health care on Wed....wrong...it will be in a few minutes, there is a link at Fox

This morning they said he was going to speak about health care everyday until it gets voted on.

I'm staying away from the TV for a few weeks.

197 Darwin Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:45am

re: #166 slartybartfast


If you substitute the word "Islamist terror" for the wording "Communism," 95% of "The Concious of a Conservative" could have been written last month.

It will appear clear to you that even if the USA was not ready for Barry Goldwater in 1964, Ronald Reagan read - and remembered - that book.

While reading it, I became nostalgic for a day in which the government "only" stole 30% of one's income.

198 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:54am

re: #186 loudguitars

Charles, did your research discover that this purchase of ham was made at almost double the prevailing price (78 cents) per pound at your local grocery store for an equal product? Wasn't the stimulus for shovel ready job creating projects? Obama = Pork = epic fail

I can't find sliced ham anywhere near $1.50 a pound, guess I'd better Google Food Lion.

199 apachegunner  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:11:59am

re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Back in the day, my mom was occasionally able to get her hands on some Government cheese (don't know how). But, it does make really good grilled cheese sandwiches.


a good samwhich for a veggie person...

200 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:01am

re: #190 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Saw parts of that movie. She was much thinner then.

201 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:12am

re: #190 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Be very careful. Obviously you are forgetting there was once a movie with Rosie Odonnel in a leather body suit.

BRAIN BLEACH!!!!!!!!

202 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:18am

re: #167 realwest

Hey sub! This was, I gather, and I think admirable attempt by the government to get food to food banks and "soup kitchens" for the poor and needy.
But I don't get this part of the official reply: "also provide a modest economic benefit of benefiting Americans working at food retailers","
Uh, what? How are workers at food retailers supposed to benefit from this?
I honestly don't understand that line at all.

Hi RW!! It's really good to see you this morning, and I hope you're feeling well!!

Okay, can't resist:

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I'll go with ya if the intent was to get food to food banks and soup kitchens, but I seriously doubt the folks who run those organizations were consulted. But I like your idea. My only change would be:

"The administration today announced that $2.5 million in funding for food banks and soup kitchens has been made available through the recovery act, to allow those "hardest hit" access to these local and neighborhood operations."

Again, takes government out of the decision making process at a level they can't possibly hope to manage effectively.

;-)

203 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:26am

re: #165 Honorary Yooper

It's pork shoulder and ham with some salt, sugar, sodium nitrate, and water.

HY, the Wiki article confirms what I said about SPAM above - that residents of Hawaii, Guam, and the Northern Marianas are the largest per capita consumers in the US. Hawaiians generally eat it cooked, too, rather than cold.

204 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

This morning they said he was going to speak about health care everyday until it gets voted on.

I'm staying away from the TV for a few weeks.

so that's it...death of a thousand cuts

205 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:36am

re: #186 loudguitars

Charles, did your research discover that this purchase of ham was made at almost double the prevailing price (78 cents) per pound at your local grocery store for an equal product?

No, because that's not true. Pre-sliced ham goes for much more than $1.50 a pound.

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:12:57am

re: #187 Tarkus289

Well, they did say that on "Independence Day". How they paid for all the stuff at "Area 51".

207 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:13:03am

re: #180 Kenneth

She's definitely minionable.

You know, I keep telling my wife that if she dressed like that one in a while, I'd be far more "agreeable" (e.g.; would capitulate without argument) to some of her requests.

I bet Sarah Palin would have done better it she strode out onto a stage so attired and barked at the GOP that it was now in her thrall-- that resistance was futile --wait-- or did she do that already?/

208 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:13:21am

re: #131 Charles

Yes, several blogs ran with the story that it was for one ham, including Instapundit.

Their common sense meters must be broken.

209 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:13:22am

re: #185 avanti

just in, Gates to increase the size of the Army by 20,000 troops.

And they money is coming from where?

210 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:13:23am

re: #205 Charles

I just checked, it's about $4/lb here in NYC.

211 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:13:26am

It better be a good deal, because if they're paying retail for three-quarters of a million pounds of ham, we've got big problems.

212 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:13:55am

Fail?

I was assuming that Drudge was trying to be funny by showing that stimulus money was literally being used for pork.

213 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:14:41am

$1.50/lb ham is something I wouldn't buy.
Way too low of a price, maybe you have to scrape the green flecks off of it.

214 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:14:43am

re: #191 Charles

By the way, $1.50 a pound is a very good price for pre-sliced ham.

Yes, it is. Wholesale prices, though.

215 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:14:49am

re: #203 Ward Cleaver

HY, the Wiki article confirms what I said about SPAM above - that residents of Hawaii, Guam, and the Northern Marianas are the largest per capita consumers in the US. Hawaiians generally eat it cooked, too, rather than cold.


Filipinos love it too.

I've actually had Spam sushi in Hawaii.

216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:14:52am

I hope that this feeds some hungry people.

217 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:02am

re: #205 Charles

No, because that's not true. Pre-sliced ham goes for much more than $1.50 a pound.

Yup, go to the deli at Walmart. Even the cheapest cooked hams are in the $3.00/lb range. And on the meat aisle, pre-packaged is still more than $1.50.

218 Tarkus289  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:02am

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I forgot about that, but long before that movie came out, I suspected that was the case, although I could be wrong.

219 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:03am

Speaking as someone who cooks for seven people--there's ham and there's ham and there's ham.

You've got your bone-in, sliced or unsliced. You've got your boneless, which has been re-formed into a regularly shaped oval-type mass. You've got the thin-sliced stuff you buy 3 oz. at a time and put on your kids' sandwiches. You can buy it in a steak, pre-diced, or tinned.

I'd have to see what kind of hams we are talking.

220 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:09am

re: #117 Honorary Yooper

Is that for sliced ham though? Pre-sliced does cost more than whole ham.


Yes it does, but not twice as much. Not even close to it.

221 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:20am

re: #183 Mad Al-Jaffee

Soup lines
Free loaves of bread
Five pound blocks of cheese
Bags of groceries
Social Security, has run out on you and me
We do whatever we can
Gotta duck when the shit hits the fan

-The Circle Jerks

Upding for quoting the Circle Jerks

222 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:25am

Gwaltney Spiral Sliced Hams are usually on sale during the holidays. During this time you can find them for around $1.50 per pound. Normally, you can expect to pay $3 per pound. If you live outside the South, you can always order this product online. The prices range from $45 to $75 for a 12 to 14 pound ham.

just googled sliced ham and found a few sites that showed this type of pricing...I guess Charles knows ham...

223 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:31am

Drudge should have done some fact checking with another source. Perhaps a HAM radio.

224 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:32am

re: #185 avanti

just in, Gates to increase the size of the Army by 20,000 troops.

Breaking: ACORN to be designated as new branch of the service...

(just kidding)

225 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:15:34am

re: #213 SasquatchOnSteroids

$1.50/lb ham is something I wouldn't buy.
Way too low of a price, maybe you have to scrape the green flecks off of it.

And...Pay no attention to that smell...

226 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:16:01am

Sliced ham at my local supermarket run about 6.99 per lb.

227 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:16:37am

re: #160 Kenneth

OT: Sci-fi movies featuring a villainess in a leather bondage suit... good or bad? Discuss.

I just checked, that outfit is against the rules.

"44. I won't require high-ranking female members of my organization to wear a stainless-steel bustier. Morale is better with a more casual dress-code. Similarly, outfits made entirely from black leather will be reserved for formal occasions."

228 The False God  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:16:37am

I have a few questions:

1) Even if it was misleading, why would an official expenditure report fail to list the amount of item purchased correctly? The report I saw, pre-explanation, made it seem like money was spent without product being bought. The big issue is... who is in charge of this record keeping, and why is it so shoddily done? Why is this being overlooked?

2) 1.50 for a pound of ham? What the hell. Who is getting kickbacks for that kind of over-expenditure, and why is our money being used for it?

3) Why is the federal government making direct food purchases in bulk? Aren't federal funds supposed to be appropriated to state/local agencies for disaster relief, to be used at local discretion? It's absurd to buy the food at a national level. Where/how the hell are we going to store/move that kind of food, and why?

229 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:16:47am

re: #202 subsailor68

My only change would be:

"The administration today announced that $2.5 million in funding for food banks and soup kitchens has been made available through the recovery act, to allow those "hardest hit" access to these local and neighborhood operations."

Again, takes government out of the decision making process at a level they can't possibly hope to manage effectively.

;-)

There ya go. Give that man a cigar! Not to mention, it would allow the food banks to "Buy Locally," which is supposed to be a big deal to do-gooders everywhere.

230 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:16:58am

re: #226 Ringo the Gringo

Sliced ham at my local supermarket run about 6.99 per lb.


That's the deli sliced. This was for whole ham. Whole ham prices fluctuate with the market--the price goes down during the holidays, including Easter.

231 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:17:02am

re: #129 MrSilverDragon
NOPE. I will not go there. I LIKE Spam. Especially fried spam and eggs!

232 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:17:08am

re: #194 Mad Al-Jaffee

It can't be worse than scrapple.

Give me scrapple any day over head cheese. I read the ingredients once, started to retch, and had to leave the store. Amazing the shit people will eat.

233 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:17:10am

re: #226 Ringo the Gringo

Sliced ham at my local supermarket run about 6.99 per lb.

That's Whole Foods prices.

234 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:17:12am

re: #221 Creeping Eruption

Upding for quoting the Circle Jerks

Thanks. And I hope you've seen Repo Man.

235 rob.schmitt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:17:20am

This was sold to us as a "JOBS Program".

So, what jobs does this $100 Million create ??!!!
As well, you can buy ham at your local super market for $.79 / lb.

Sorry Charles, the FAIL belongs to you!

236 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:17:57am

re: #186 loudguitars

Charles, did your research discover that this purchase of ham was made at almost double the prevailing price (78 cents) per pound at your local grocery store for an equal product? Wasn't the stimulus for shovel ready job creating projects? Obama = Pork = epic fail

There's a higher price for pre-sliced as opposed to whole ham. Whole ham is what was being sold in the Food Lion ad that Pianobuff linked. Pre-sliced ham usually goes for much more, typically in the $3.50 to $5 range per pound.

237 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:06am
238 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:15am

It should be noted that at wholesale pricing, you should be able to buy meat at half of retail and then buying that kind of quantity to offer some discount as well....that being said, if the gov really bought sliced ham at $1.50/lb, that's pretty good for government when you consider some of the outrageous fraud and waste.

239 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:21am

re: #234 Mad Al-Jaffee

Thanks. And I hope you've seen Repo Man.

I used to have it on a tape with "Eating Raoul" and "Animal House."

240 Kenneth  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:39am

Sliced Ham prices

241 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:46am

re: #231 realwest

NOPE. I will not go there. I LIKE Spam. Especially fried spam and eggs!

Heh, it's not scary. And there are some little (some might consider "interesting") factoids there as well.

And remember, I like Spam too.

242 Mikey_Dallas  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:50am

re: #117 Honorary Yooper

Is that for sliced ham though? Pre-sliced does cost more than whole ham.

We can't ask welfare recipients to slice their own ham. That wouldn't be fair or equal, as rich people can afford to have THEIR ham sliced.

243 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:54am

re: #233 calcajun

That's Whole Foods prices.

How much is arugula going for these days?

244 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:18:55am

re: #237 buzzsawmonkey

OK, so they bought ham. What about Shem and Japheth? What are they--chopped liver?

You sound upset. Rye?

245 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:02am

re: #239 Creeping Eruption

I used to have it on a tape with "Eating Raoul" and "Animal House."

I still have it on tape! I should buy the dvd one of these days.

246 Kragar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:11am

Oh man

Beastie Boys' Adam Yauch Has Cancer

In a video posted Monday (July 20) on BeastieBoys.com, Adam "MCA" Yauch announced that he has cancer and the group is canceling all upcoming shows (and pushing back the release of their Hot Sauce Committee, Part One album) while he receives treatment for it.

247 midwestgak  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:20am

re: #231 realwest

NOPE. I will not go there. I LIKE Spam. Especially fried spam and eggs!

But I do not like green eggs and spam!

248 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:38am

Could you, would you,
with a goat?

I would not,
could not,
with a goat!

249 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:41am

$1.50 per pound is an excellent price for a sliced ham. Here in LA the lowest price I've found is about $4.00 a pound.

250 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:47am

re: #223 Mad Al-Jaffee

Drudge should have done some fact checking with another source. Perhaps a HAM radio.

Naw, that'd be too Amateur-ish.

251 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:53am

re: #247 midwestgak

But I do not like green eggs and spam!

Don't be a grinch.

252 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:19:57am

re: #134 SixDegrees

Over paying for anything in that quantity leads to inflation.

253 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:11am

Smithfield Butt Portion Smoked Ham
$1.19 Lb.

Smithfield Shank Portion Smoked Ham
$1.09 Lb.

These are the retail prices at my local Food Lion. This is the ham they slice for you at the deli counter.
It gets more expensive (3 or 4 bucks a pound) for various 'glazed" and "special cut" varieties.

254 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:13am

re: #220 realwest

Yes it does, but not twice as much. Not even close to it.

Yeah, it might. There's a lot of labor involved. See my #150 for retail sale prices (low ones at that) in the Chicago area for pre-sliced ham.

255 avanti  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:16am

re: #191 Charles

By the way, $1.50 a pound is a very good price for pre-sliced ham.

I just checked the local Food Lion, $3.99 a pound. They have had ham shoulders on sale for $1.09, but the guy had never heard of the Drudge $. 79/pound deal unless it was a ham shoulder with a coupon.

256 Russkilitlover  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:18am

re: #228 The False God

All good questions. Don't hold your breath for an answer.

257 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:20am

re: #248 Abu Al-Poopypants

Could you, would you,
with a goat?

I would not,
could not,
with a goat!

A camel, on the other hand...

258 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:24am

re: #246 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh man

Beastie Boys' Adam Yauch Has Cancer

Sad news.

259 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:32am

re: #234 Mad Al-Jaffee

Thanks. And I hope you've seen Repo Man.

Repo Man couldn't get any food products for "product placement" (the only company that supplied anything at all (non food) was the Evergreen Auto Freshener Company.
That's why everything in the movie is generic - cans of "food" "drink", etc.

260 Dianna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:45am

re: #249 Charles

$1.50 per pound is an excellent price for a sliced ham. Here in LA the lowest price I've found is about $4.00 a pound.

For frozen?

I don't happen to care for ham, but I'm pretty sure frozen sliced ham is cheaper than that?

261 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:20:46am

Anyone know how much the government is paying for thin-sliced Parma prosciutto?

262 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:07am

re: #145 Ward Cleaver

I've read in the past (old newspaper article) that Hawaiians are the largest per capita consumers of SPAM in the US, a habit formed during WWII, because of the scarcity of fresh meat there during the war.


OK, I'm calling bullshit on that one! Why my old outfit in Vietnam probably scarfed down more Spam than the entire population of the Hawaiian Islands.
Lessen y'all count the tourists who thought it was a Hawaiian delicacy.
/

263 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:18am

re: #210 Baier

I just checked, it's about $4/lb here in NYC.

The government price is for major bulk. I'm unsure why the government is buying all the ham.

264 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:19am

re: #236 Honorary Yooper

Agreed. Look at the prices in the deli cases for the "ham" that is there -- it's up between $5-6 per lb. That's a retail price. Then look at the Oscar Meyer cold-cuts and its comparable. Again, a retail price.

But, there are different grades of meat, as well and where the meat comes from. Still, $1.70 per lb for a wholesale price is not bad at all-- just depends on the type of meat, where it was processed and how.

265 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:28am

re: #259 Kosh's Shadow

Repo Man couldn't get any food products for "product placement" (the only company that supplied anything at all (non food) was the Evergreen Auto Freshener Company.
That's why everything in the movie is generic - cans of "food" "drink", etc.

I know. And the generic labels really work well with the look and environment of the movie.

Plate of shrimp.

266 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:30am

re: #252 Dianna

Over paying for anything in that quantity leads to inflation.

Does that mean the next economic crisis will be a "Ham Bubble"?

267 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:36am

re: #235 rob.schmitt

This was sold to us as a "JOBS Program".

So, what jobs does this $100 Million create ??!!!
As well, you can buy ham at your local super market for $.79 / lb.

Sorry Charles, the FAIL belongs to you!

No, that price is for whole, not pre-sliced ham, and it is a sale item. See my #150 for sale prices on pre-sliced ham.

268 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:21:40am

re: #239 Creeping Eruption

I used to have it on a tape with "Eating Raoul" and "Animal House."

VHS sucked-- really sucked.

269 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:09am

Has PETA made a statement?

Just asking.

270 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:11am

re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hope that this feeds some hungry people.

Isn't that the reason for food stamps?

271 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:14am

re: #245 Mad Al-Jaffee

I still have it on tape! I should buy the dvd one of these days.

Yes, the DVD improves it. I never could tell before that the can Otto is eating out of (when his mother tells him it will taste better in a plate) is labeled "Food".

Somewhere, there's a plate o' shrimp for Miller.

272 ernieg  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:16am

re: #261 Ringo the Gringo

Anyone know how much the government is paying for thin-sliced Parma prosciutto?

And the arugula is really expensive.

273 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:23am

re: #219 EmmmieG

Speaking as someone who cooks for seven people--there's ham and there's ham and there's ham.

You've got your bone-in, sliced or unsliced. You've got your boneless, which has been re-formed into a regularly shaped oval-type mass. You've got the thin-sliced stuff you buy 3 oz. at a time and put on your kids' sandwiches. You can buy it in a steak, pre-diced, or tinned.

I'd have to see what kind of hams we are talking.

Reminds me of the movie Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (one of my favorite films), where ad man Cary Grant is trying to think of a winning slogan for "Wham". Of course, his maid (Gussie) comes up with the winner - "If you ain't eatin' Wham, you ain't eatin' Ham!"

274 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:26am

re: #261 Ringo the Gringo

Anyone know how much the government is paying for thin-sliced Parma prosciutto?

Isn't Eric Holder in charge of hiring the prosciuttos?

275 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:22:58am

re: #269 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Has PETA made a statement?

Just asking.

Free the curly-tailed oink kittehs!!!

276 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:01am

Okay, the government has purchased ham at $1.50 per pound. From the posts above, that sounds like a pretty good price. My question is:

Once the ham is finally placed in the hands of those "hardest hit" - including the cost to get it to them, overhead to cover the bureaucrats who are managing the program, and so forth, what's the final cost per pound? Is it still a good economic decision?

(Don't know the answer to that, but it seems like a reasonable question.)

277 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:14am

re: #267 Honorary Yooper

No, that price is for whole, not pre-sliced ham, and it is a sale item. See my #150 for sale prices on pre-sliced ham.

So imagine all of the ham-slicing jobs being created.

278 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:14am

re: #186 loudguitars

Charles, did your research discover that this purchase of ham was made at almost double the prevailing price (78 cents) per pound at your local grocery store for an equal product? Wasn't the stimulus for shovel ready job creating projects? Obama = Pork = epic fail

Could you direct me to the reference you're using that gives specifics about the cuts and cures used on the government-bought versus "prevailing" price of hams? I've poked at the problem a bit, and there isn't enough information. All hams are not created equal; there are at least three and probably more like a half-dozen different cuts that can yield a ham, not to mention many, many different curing methods. All affect the price. If the government managed to by prosciutto at $1.50 per pound, I need the number of their purchasing agent, because I'll run out an buy a freezer right now and happily give them $3.00 per pound for it. If it's an injected, water-cured commercial ham, not so much. But the point is that there just isn't enough information given, that I can find, to make a determination whether the price is reasonable or not.

Then there's the matter of intent. The whole point of stimulus is to stimulate - to dump as much money into the economy as rapidly as possible without creating unpleasant side effects, like inflationary pressures. It's one of the few times when government overspending is actually desirable.

See my earlier post, above, for why I think the stimulus is horrendously flawed. But I don't think the overpriced criticism has been truly demonstrated at this point. More information is needed. And even then, it's a shoulder shrug at best if the money got into taxpayer hands in the end.

Of course, it would have been better to just leave the money in taxpayer's hands in the first place, but that's apparently too difficult a concept for Washington.

279 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:26am

re: #235 rob.schmitt

This was sold to us as a "JOBS Program".

So, what jobs does this $100 Million create ??!!!
As well, you can buy ham at your local super market for $.79 / lb.

Sorry Charles, the FAIL belongs to you!

Yawn.

280 bloodnok  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:28am

re: #228 The False God

I have a few questions:

1) Even if it was misleading, why would an official expenditure report fail to list the amount of item purchased correctly? The report I saw, pre-explanation, made it seem like money was spent without product being bought. The big issue is... who is in charge of this record keeping, and why is it so shoddily done? Why is this being overlooked?

2) 1.50 for a pound of ham? What the hell. Who is getting kickbacks for that kind of over-expenditure, and why is our money being used for it?

3) Why is the federal government making direct food purchases in bulk? Aren't federal funds supposed to be appropriated to state/local agencies for disaster relief, to be used at local discretion? It's absurd to buy the food at a national level. Where/how the hell are we going to store/move that kind of food, and why?

Who knows how deep this goes? CIA? Black Helicopters? Were any butchers in Dallas in 1963?

/sheesh

281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:34am

re: #270 debutaunt

Yes. But, I am afraid it will just rot.

Seriously.

282 Baier  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:36am

re: #263 debutaunt

The government price is for major bulk. I'm unsure why the government is buying all the ham.

it's pork, that's why!

283 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:40am

re: #265 Mad Al-Jaffee

I know. And the generic labels really work well with the look and environment of the movie.

Plate of shrimp.

Let's buy sushi and not pay.

284 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:50am

I'm getting hungry.

285 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:23:52am

re: #262 realwest

OK, I'm calling bullshit on that one! Why my old outfit in Vietnam probably scarfed down more Spam than the entire population of the Hawaiian Islands.
Lessen y'all count the tourists who thought it was a Hawaiian delicacy.
/


You haven't lived till you've had Corn soup in Hawaii...

286 Mikey_Dallas  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:00am

Holy Cr@p. I am going to put all my money in government ham and make a killing in the resale market. I'm through with stocks and bonds.

No doubt, Obama will claim one job created for each slice of ham....

Am I making a pig of myself?

287 ernieg  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:11am

I went to the recovery.gov web site linked to by Drudge and noticed a set of links to the right to report fraud, waste, or abuse.

I found little comfort in the link to the Inspectors General Hotlines:

[Link: www.recovery.gov...]

I expect that the Inspectors General have gotten the word by now about what to inspect and what not to inspect.

288 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:17am

re: #275 Mad Al-Jaffee

Free the curly-tailed oink kittehs!!!

Rotating title?

289 jaunte  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:29am

Here's a jobs program with some ham in it:

Low-Cost Professional Wild Hog Removal in Texas
Texas has the largest population of wild pigs with somewhere between 2-4 million feral pigs. Without effective control, they will reproduce at alarming levels (up to 10 new pigs per Litter).


[Link: www.hogstoppers.com...]

290 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #276 subsailor68

Okay, the government has purchased ham at $1.50 per pound. From the posts above, that sounds like a pretty good price. My question is:

Once the ham is finally placed in the hands of those "hardest hit" - including the cost to get it to them, overhead to cover the bureaucrats who are managing the program, and so forth, what's the final cost per pound? Is it still a good economic decision?

(Don't know the answer to that, but it seems like a reasonable question.)

you ... you ... you ... CAPITALIST!

/it's a damned good question

291 rightside  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:38am

Yeah, the govt has never overpaid for anything, or wasted a single dime of those who produce.

292 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:48am

re: #283 Kosh's Shadow

Let's buy sushi and not pay.

Melon Farmers!

Flip you!

(from the edited for tv version)

293 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:50am

re: #285 HoosierHoops

You haven't lived till you've had Corn soup in Hawaii...

Hominy times have you had it?

294 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:54am

re: #191 Charles

By the way, $1.50 a pound is a very good price for pre-sliced ham.

And it's an unbelievably good price for a good dry-cured Smithfield ham. Or prosciutto.

It all depends on where (on the pig) it came from, and how it was cured afterwards.

295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:24:55am

re: #279 Charles

Yawn.

"Where's your God now, Moses? Hmyaaah?"
-Edward G. Robinson

296 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:00am

re: #165 Honorary Yooper

It's pork shoulder and ham with some salt, sugar, sodium nitrate, and water.


Oh, Thanks. And after I asked you not to tell me, too.I'll get you for this if it's the last thing I do!
* besides, there's more sugar than added salt in spam, thibitpt!

297 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:18am

re: #275 Mad Al-Jaffee

Free the curly-tailed oink kittehs!!!

Miss Piggy was making a statement for PETA, but when someone in the audience said "I hear even Kermit eats pig" she got upset and started karate-chopping the audience.

298 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:18am

re: #235 rob.schmitt

As well, you can buy ham at your local super market for $.79 / lb.

Sorry Charles, the FAIL belongs to you!

As has been demonstrated in many posts on this thread, pre-sliced ham typically costs more than $1.50/lb. Contemplate your FAIL while watching this.

299 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:31am

re: #252 Dianna

Over paying for anything in that quantity leads to inflation.

It's OK. They are using pre-inflated dollars.

300 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:38am

re: #235 rob.schmitt

This was sold to us as a "JOBS Program".

So, what jobs does this $100 Million create ??!!!
As well, you can buy ham at your local super market for $.79 / lb.

Sorry Charles, the FAIL belongs to you!

Hey! It's rob.schmitt the link-dinger! Out in the open at last where I can ding you! Do you read the links you ding as closely as you read this thread?

301 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:39am

re: #295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mwahahaha!

302 oldschool  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:46am

All I want to know is where can I get my free ham? I can use the free cheese I got and stored from the 80's and make a ham and cheese sandwich.

303 kynna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:55am

While I assumed this packaging reference was the case when I first read this, I also have to wonder what people could do if they had jobs that would give them their own money to buy their own ham. They might opt for smoked turkey instead! Or olive loaf! Or go crazy with just buy some sliced cheese food product.

"Modest" economic benefits for all!

304 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:25:59am

re: #284 Ringo the Gringo

I'm getting hungry.

Are we reuben this in too much?

305 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:26:17am

re: #293 LGoPs

Hominy times have you had it?

amaizing.

306 calcajun  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:26:28am

OK-- bbl-- down into the salt mines as I am behind on my quota.

307 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:26:40am

re: #292 Mad Al-Jaffee

Melon Farmers!

Flip you!

(from the edited for tv version)

The edited for TV version really sucked. You lost Layla's loving name for Otto, Fuck-face.

308 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:26:46am

re: #235 rob.schmitt

Some of us refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Logic: Fail.

309 Mikey_Dallas  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:26:54am

re: #303 kynna

While I assumed this packaging reference was the case when I first read this, I also have to wonder what people could do if they had jobs that would give them their own money to buy their own ham. They might opt for smoked turkey instead! Or olive loaf! Or go crazy with just buy some sliced cheese food product.

"Modest" economic benefits for all!

Not ALL. I guess if I'm a hungry Jew, I get porked by this program.
----Jewish boy in Dallas

310 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:26:59am
311 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:27:01am

re: #304 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Are we reuben this in too much?

anybody want a peanut...

312 Syrah  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:27:02am

Ham is not halal.

/Just Saying. . .

313 bloodnok  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:27:05am

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth

As has been demonstrated in many posts on this thread, pre-sliced ham typically costs more than $1.50/lb. Contemplate your FAIL while watching this.

How interesting that people regroup after being fact checked and offer a second flimsy argument that isn't fact checked.

314 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:27:19am

re: #293 LGoPs

Hominy times have you had it?

The way you guys pun here maize me. (ha I see this thread started out with a bunch of pork puns)

315 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:27:41am

$1.50 per pound for ham???? When you can get it for 1/2 that.
More proof that YOUR MONEY goes farther when you spend it rather than the government.

316 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:11am

re: #310 Iron Fist

OT, on neo-nazis. So I went to Home Depot to get shit for my house (we are refurbishing it to sell it. Lots of money spent. We'll see what it gets me in return :-), and on the way out we see this guy with really decent tattoo work getting out of his car and getting his kid out of his car. I was going to compliment him on his ink (mine's better, but his was pretty good. Full sleeves on both arms and one leg), and I see his shirt. It was red and white with an eagle and fucking SS runes. I couldn't read the writing on it, but it was clear in its intent. Fuckin' neo-nazi on the hoof, right out in front of God and everybody. Unreal. I've seen a couple of people wearing Confederate Hammer colors (ever) and a Klansman once, but this is, I believe, my first actual neo-nazi.

Him out and about like it was no big deal. They are getting bolder out there on the fringe. They aren't just cheering each other on at some secret crossburning in the wilds anymore.

Poor kid to have to grow up learning that shit.

317 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:12am

re: #273 Ward Cleaver

Reminds me of the movie Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (one of my favorite films), where ad man Cary Grant is trying to think of a winning slogan for "Wham". Of course, his maid (Gussie) comes up with the winner - "If you ain't eatin' Wham, you ain't eatin' Ham!"

My favorite scene:

Youtube Video
318 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:14am
319 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:17am

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth

As has been demonstrated in many posts on this thread, pre-sliced ham typically costs more than $1.50/lb. Contemplate your FAIL while watching this.

That is one of the better responses I've seen in a long time. LOL!

320 MrSilverDragon  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:19am

re: #314 turn

The way you guys pun here maize me. (ha I see this thread started out with a bunch of pork puns)

Oooh, BBQ Pork Puns! I get those at Dim Sum all the time!

321 apachegunner  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:23am

re: #249 Charles

$1.50 per pound is an excellent price for a sliced ham. Here in LA the lowest price I've found is about $4.00 a pound.

charles? I always thought you lived in a tunnel under the Denver airport. Whats that all about?

322 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:40am

re: #314 turn

The way you guys pun here maize me. (ha I see this thread started out with a bunch of pork puns)

It takes True Grits to pun like we do.......

323 apachegunner  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:45am

now there I could understand that over priced ham

324 The False God  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:47am

re: #280 bloodnok

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, I'm saying it's absurd. Just because someone isn't malicious doesn't mean they're not incompetent. This was poor record-keeping, for OUR money. This seems like a bad, retail-markup price, when the government should be locking in factory prices, if it's going to buy in huge bulk, especially for "relief efforts." And it's a terrible misuse of funds which should be handled at a local level.

The moment you start accepting something like this as "just something that happens" is the moment we all terribly lose.

Every action should be scrutinized, every government agent should be watched. At the level of power they have, their actions should be recorded twice and their mistakes punished three times as hard. We don't have a choice of funding government projects, so they should have MORE accountability and answer to much more than the average citizen.

325 Spider Mensch  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:48am

hmmmm...ham = $$$...how about I stand out on the busy street corner with this sign???....."will wrestle you for guvmint ham!!"

326 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:28:52am

re: #276 subsailor68

Okay, the government has purchased ham at $1.50 per pound. From the posts above, that sounds like a pretty good price. My question is:

Once the ham is finally placed in the hands of those "hardest hit" - including the cost to get it to them, overhead to cover the bureaucrats who are managing the program, and so forth, what's the final cost per pound? Is it still a good economic decision?

(Don't know the answer to that, but it seems like a reasonable question.)

Cut it out! It's for stimulus and extra-added cost is irrelevant.

327 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:29:03am

re: #307 Kosh's Shadow

The edited for TV version really sucked. You lost Layla's loving name for Otto, Fuck-face.

I thought it was funny because of all of the overdubbing. There's a great Mr. Show sketch about edited for tv movies. It's the edited version of "Pallies" (a Goodfellas parody.) I'm pretty sure it's on YouTube.

328 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:29:15am

re: #321 apachegunner

charles? I always thought you lived in a tunnel under the Denver airport. Whats that all about?

It's an extremely long tunnel.

The other end is in LA.

329 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:29:15am
330 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:29:28am

re: #230 EmmmieG

That's the deli sliced. This was for whole ham. Whole ham prices fluctuate with the market--the price goes down during the holidays, including Easter.

It depends on the part of the pig used, and the way it's processed, too. If you want to broaden your culinary horizons even further, it depends on the pig a lot as well; some breeds produce notably better hams than others, although the vast majority of pigs slaughtered in the US are pretty well standardized. Still, there are specialty ham producers that provide hams made from particular breeds, even "heirloom" breeds, to ham afficionados.

331 rightside  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:29:29am

Over the past few decades trillions of $$$ have been wasted by liberalism on useless feelgood programs, that are now worse off then than they are now. A million dollar 2lb ham would be a bargain.

Liberalism is failure, I want my $$ back.

332 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:30:10am

re: #312 Syrah

Ham is not halal.

/Just Saying. . .

I bet you threw that in just for the halal of it!

333 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:30:22am

I wonder how many people are going to pop in and repeat Drudge's lame excuse for that screw-up, without bothering to read the thread first?

334 midwestgak  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:30:36am

re: #320 MrSilverDragon

Oooh, BBQ Pork Puns! I get those at Dim Sum all the time!

Is Dim Sum related to Slim Jim?

335 bloodnok  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:04am

re: #324 The False God

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, I'm saying it's absurd. Just because someone isn't malicious doesn't mean they're not incompetent. This was poor record-keeping, for OUR money. This seems like a bad, retail-markup price, when the government should be locking in factory prices, if it's going to buy in huge bulk, especially for "relief efforts." And it's a terrible misuse of funds which should be handled at a local level.

The moment you start accepting something like this as "just something that happens" is the moment we all terribly lose.

Every action should be scrutinized, every government agent should be watched. At the level of power they have, their actions should be recorded twice and their mistakes punished three times as hard. We don't have a choice of funding government projects, so they should have MORE accountability and answer to much more than the average citizen.

How dare they not use double coupons as well! Audit the Deli!

336 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:05am

re: #322 LGoPs

It takes True Grits to pun like we do.......

We can sure cob together those puns. btw, turn got some fresh sweetcorn in this little place yesterday - to die for.

[Link: www.davisranchproduce.com...]

337 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:06am

re: #331 rightside

Liberalism is failure, I want my $$ back.

That's why they made sure not to give us a receipt.

338 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:23am

I do not like green paid for ham
I do not like it Uncle Sam
You should spend it on a school
you should spend it on a road
don't be such a wasteful tool
shovel ready is a load
I do not like green paid for ham
I do not like debt Uncle Sam.

339 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:30am

re: #326 debutaunt

Cut it out! It's for stimulus and extra-added cost is irrelevant.

Hi debutant! Oops! Forgot about the "touchy-feely" factor that makes government so much fun to be around.

:-)

340 rightside  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:40am

re: #331 rightside

*worse off now*

PIMF!

341 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:31:58am

re: #289 jaunte

Here's a jobs program with some ham in it:


[Link: www.hogstoppers.com...]

Those suckers can destroy a farm or flower bed or vegetable garden. You don't want to be chased by one, either.

I've eaten the meat; it has a slightly gamey taste, like you'd expect from a wild animal.

342 wiffersnapper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:06am

Yeah I was pretty sure that wasn't right. A million dollars for generic ham. Maybe it costs that much at Whole Foods, but not where the government buys its ham from.

343 kynna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:08am

re: #310 Iron Fist

OT, on neo-nazis. So I went to Home Depot to get shit for my house (we are refurbishing it to sell it. Lots of money spent. We'll see what it gets me in return :-), and on the way out we see this guy with really decent tattoo work getting out of his car and getting his kid out of his car. I was going to compliment him on his ink (mine's better, but his was pretty good. Full sleeves on both arms and one leg), and I see his shirt. It was red and white with an eagle and fucking SS runes. I couldn't read the writing on it, but it was clear in its intent. Fuckin' neo-nazi on the hoof, right out in front of God and everybody. Unreal. I've seen a couple of people wearing Confederate Hammer colors (ever) and a Klansman once, but this is, I believe, my first actual neo-nazi.

Him out and about like it was no big deal. They are getting bolder out there on the fringe. They aren't just cheering each other on at some secret crossburning in the wilds anymore.

What I find impressive is his not thinking his confrontational attire might cause him to get into a hostile situation with his child in tow. Not to mention the crap that kid must be learning at home if the dad is so blatant about it.

Father of the Year?////

344 The False God  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:21am

re: #335 bloodnok

Sarcasm doesn't work when you're attempting to justify a prior idiocy with it.

345 albusteve  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:23am

re: #324 The False God

typically the feds do not rat themselves out

346 Charpete67  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:25am

re: #333 Charles

I wonder how many people are going to pop in and repeat Drudge's lame excuse for that screw-up, without bothering to read the thread first?

...can't I just hate Obama and blame it on him and be done with it?...I don't need facts...

347 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:35am

re: #314 turn

The way you guys pun here maize me. (ha I see this thread started out with a bunch of pork puns)

I see it's time for you to rice to the occasion.

/obscure Delta reference for our Sac Lizard

348 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:37am

re: #315 iceman1960

$1.50 per pound for ham???? When you can get it for 1/2 that.
More proof that YOUR MONEY goes farther when you spend it rather than the government.

WTF are you getting pre-sliced ham for 1/2 that? I'd love to know since I usually pay about $3.33/lb for pre-sliced ham, retail. I once got it down to $2/lb using a sale and coupons, but I'd love to know where you're getting pre-sliced ham for $0.75/lb.

I'm guessing you haven't been in a grocery store in a long time, if ever. Maybe your mother does the shopping for you while you sit in your parents' basement hacking out that crappola on your computer.

349 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:38am
350 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:39am

re: #333 Charles
A bunch. It's still early!

351 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #333 Charles

I wonder how many people are going to pop in and repeat Drudge's lame excuse for that screw-up, without bothering to read the thread first?

I say we mail the 20th poster to repeat Drudge's story a 2lb ham.

352 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:53am

re: #205 Charles

No, because that's not true. Pre-sliced ham goes for much more than $1.50 a pound.


Well maybe in L.A. or Malibu or somesuch place, but mom just looked at the last price we paid for sliced ham down here in a suburb of Charlotte and it was
$1.39 a pound, sliced.

353 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:32:56am

re: #310 Iron Fist

I once had a gig a few years ago outside of DC during Memorial Day weekend. A bunch of bikers were in the audience and all or most of them were on their way to Rolling Thunder. One of them had a swastika button on his vest. It's kind of ironic that these guys were supposed to be honoring our military and here's a guy with the symbol of some of the worst enemies we have ever fought.

354 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:33:02am

re: #310 Iron Fist

Tolerence as a public virtue. Reaping what we sew.

355 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:33:24am

By the way, if you don't think people are repeating the false story that the government spent over $1M for one ham, check this out:

[Link: www.google.com...]

356 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:33:29am

re: #333 Charles

I wonder how many people are going to pop in and repeat Drudge's lame excuse for that screw-up, without bothering to read the thread first?

This guy never gets any rest.

357 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:33:30am

re: #315 iceman1960

$1.50 per pound for ham???? When you can get it for 1/2 that.
More proof that YOUR MONEY goes farther when you spend it rather than the government.

See several of my posts, above, for why this argument doesn't hold up well.

358 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:33:36am

re: #333 Charles

I wonder how many people are going to pop in and repeat Drudge's lame excuse for that screw-up, without bothering to read the thread first?

More than a few, and a lot of those probably have never stepped foot in a grocery store.

359 jaunte  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:34:28am

re: #341 Ward Cleaver

Those suckers can destroy a farm or flower bed or vegetable garden. You don't want to be chased by one, either.

I've eaten the meat; it has a slightly gamey taste, like you'd expect from a wild animal.

Looks like "Swine gone Wild" is on in a lot of places:
Big pigs, big problem: Feral swine spread to Great Lakes region

360 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:34:41am
361 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:34:51am

re: #209 calcajun

And they money is coming from where?

It's coming from the savings on buying F-22's!! Who needs air superiority anyway?!
/
I actually heard or read someplace last month that the Army was asking for an increase of 35,000 troops.

362 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:34:59am

re: #313 bloodnok

How interesting that people regroup after being fact checked and offer a second flimsy argument that isn't fact checked.

It's sad, really. It's like watching a one legged cat trying to bury a turd in a marble floor.

And just below your post, another:

re: #315 iceman1960

$1.50 per pound for ham???? When you can get it for 1/2 that.
More proof that YOUR MONEY goes farther when you spend it rather than the government.

:facepalm:

363 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:35:02am

re: #342 wiffersnapper

Yeah I was pretty sure that wasn't right. A million dollars for generic ham. Maybe it costs that much at Whole Foods, but not where the government buys its ham from.


The stuff you buy at the supermarket already has the transportation and storgage marked in to the price. How much does that $1.50 lb ham cost at delivery to the consumer? Somehow I doubt the stimulus accountability web site will factor that in for us.

364 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:35:08am
365 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:35:19am

re: #352 realwest

Well maybe in L.A. or Malibu or somesuch place, but mom just looked at the last price we paid for sliced ham down here in a suburb of Charlotte and it was
$1.39 a pound, sliced.

Try Chicagoland as well. It's no lower than $3.33/lb, sliced usually, on sale.

366 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:35:48am

re: #365 Honorary Yooper

Try Chicagoland as well. It's no lower than $3.33/lb, sliced usually, on sale.

I like my ham sliced unusually.

It's more interesting.

367 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:35:50am

Can someone point me to the "excuse" Drudge is using? I have to admit when I read his site first thing this morning I did not get the impression he was trying to imply that that money was spend on just two lbs of ham.

368 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:36:08am

re: #355 Charles

In the 1980s it was the $500 hammer.
Now it's the $1,000,000 ham.

369 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:36:18am

re: #333 Charles

Too many to count obviously, but even with a cursory examination of those contracts, there are issues that have to be addressed by the Administration and which are not clear from the recovery.gov website.

For one, how is it that the contract to provide the ham shows a price of $1.50 per pound. Hoft says that he's found sliced ham for $.79 per pound. I've found my local Shop Rite selling it for nearly $7 a pound. In either case, we're not talking market rates, and it would adversely affect the food producer. Even assuming a markup between the price at the deli counter and what the ham wholesale costs per pound, something doesn't seem to add up here as far as those contract numbers.

370 jaunte  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:36:18am

re: #360 taxfreekiller

"Let Them Slice It Themselves"

I guess no one wanted to see the headline: Govt. Distributes Knives to The Poor

371 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:36:47am

re: #319 Honorary Yooper

Thank you.

372 JamesTKirk  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:37:11am

re: #370 jaunte

I guess no one wanted to see the headline: Govt. Distributes Knives to The Poor

"No thanks, we already have plenty of those!"

373 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:37:24am

re: #348 Honorary Yooper

Hey clown I haven't lived at home for over 30 years and I'm at work right now.
I've raised a family of 4 (6 mouths to feed all together) and they are all gone now.
I know how to shop in bulk.

374 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:37:25am

re: #370 jaunte
Mwahahaha!

375 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:37:31am

Only a small handful of people here even acknowledged that the government is FEEDING THE POOR. Instead you argue over a few dollar differences between deli meats that, which everyone should know, fluctuates greatly depending on what state you live in.

What it BOILS* down to is this. If Obama is doing it, it's evil, despicable and a communist program designed to enslave us all.

Whateverrrrrr.

(*I do like the puns, however.)

376 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:37:46am

Arguing over the price of the ham is a shiny thing distracting from the larger issue of "why is the government using stimulus money to fill budget shortfalls instead of infrastructure projects as promised?"

377 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:37:54am

re: #347 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I see it's time for you to rice to the occasion.

/obscure Delta reference for our Sac Lizard

pbmb, it was obscure for me but thanks anyway. Something from you service not doubt.

378 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:38:01am

re: #352 realwest

An hour up the road, we have it for $1.09 a lb (sliced). I guess we live in the ham capitol of the country.

379 bloodnok  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:38:33am

re: #344 The False God

Sarcasm doesn't work when you're attempting to justify a prior idiocy with it.

It has been shown that the deal the government got was okay for pre sliced ham at bulk rate (pretty good considering what it costs at your local supermarket).

It has also been shown that this food is distributed to local food shelters.

Drudge's 0.79/lb. figure is just trying to save face for running with a ridiculous story.

Are there overpriced programs in the stimulous bill (possibly even fraudulently overpriced ones)? -very possibly. But this isn't one to hang our hats on.

380 jcm  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:39:02am

$100 million here, $100 million there pretty soon were talking real money.

Deficit is $12,000,000,000,000.00.
Unfunded mandates on the future $50,000,000,000,000.00.

Obama is pushing through a health care bill which will be unread, nationalize a big part of the a national economy and make the deficit worse, make unfunded mandates worse.

Hamgate is one project of how many and how much money being flushed with porkulus?

Seattle this weekend opened light rail. Years late way over budget and much less than promised all for just $166 million a mile.

I'm not all worried about a couple slice of ham, I'm worried about the whole hog that Obama and crew are trying to swallow.

381 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:39:08am

re: #365 Honorary Yooper

Try Chicagoland as well. It's no lower than $3.33/lb, sliced usually, on sale.

I've heard that you can find cut-rate bargains from time to time, ... but you Hoffa look around.

382 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:39:30am

re: #348 Honorary Yooper

Drudge has a link up now to 79 cents a pound, haven't read it but must be some sooper dooper special or something. No way can you normally by sliced ham for that cheap.

383 DaddyG  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:39:39am

re: #373 iceman1960

Hey clown I haven't lived at home for over 30 years and I'm at work right now.
I've raised a family of 4 (6 mouths to feed all together) and they are all gone now.
I know how to shop in bulk.


Family of four with 6 mouths? Wow that must have been some interesting orthodontia! /

Kidding - I assume you meant 4 children.

384 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:39:46am

re: #381 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I've heard that you can find cut-rate bargains from time to time, ... but you Hoffa look around.

On a Daley basis?

385 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:40:20am

re: #373 iceman1960

Then, WTF are you getting pre-sliced ham for $0.75/lb? The world wants to know and save!

386 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:40:26am

Anyone mention that Drudge has added the link above?
"In defense of Ham"

387 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:41:09am

re: #383 DaddyG

Yeah. Sorry about that typing on the fly.

388 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:41:13am

re: #381 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I've heard that you can find cut-rate bargains from time to time, ... but you Hoffa look around.

That particular flavor of Soylent Green is long gone.

389 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:41:31am

re: #377 turn

pbmb, it was obscure for me but thanks anyway. Something from you service not doubt.

My dad lived in Fair Oaks.

390 FrogMarch  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:41:49am

re: #380 jcm

$166 million per mile. *sigh* Fer crying out loud -- Only the government.

391 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:41:55am

re: #386 FrogMarch
"In defense of Ham"

With swiss on rye with brown mustard and a pickle, and a side of slaw.

392 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:42:23am

re: #384 Mad Al-Jaffee

On a Daley basis?

Remember to shop the Valentine's Day specials.

393 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:42:34am

re: #276 subsailor68
"Once the ham is finally placed in the hands of those "hardest hit" - including the cost to get it to them, overhead to cover the bureaucrats who are managing the program, and so forth, what's the final cost per pound? Is it still a good economic decision?"
Of course it is - don't be silly now. The cost of transportation, in bulk, then transportation storage and handling at the "retail" level is all paid for by the Government. Doesn't cost us a thing!
/do I really?

394 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:42:42am

re: #390 FrogMarch

$166 million per mile. *sigh* Fer crying out loud -- Only the government.

Which is why the government should be handling your health care.

395 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:42:50am

re: #300 wrenchwench

Hey! It's rob.schmitt the link-dinger! Out in the open at last where I can ding you! Do you read the links you ding as closely as you read this thread?

I have been waiting so long for that troll to show its face. I am willing to bet that a lot of link posters are too. Too bad I can only ding him down once.

396 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:43:29am
397 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:43:42am

re: #369 lawhawk

Too many to count obviously, but even with a cursory examination of those contracts, there are issues that have to be addressed by the Administration and which are not clear from the recovery.gov website.

For one, how is it that the contract to provide the ham shows a price of $1.50 per pound. Hoft says that he's found sliced ham for $.79 per pound. I've found my local Shop Rite selling it for nearly $7 a pound. In either case, we're not talking market rates, and it would adversely affect the food producer. Even assuming a markup between the price at the deli counter and what the ham wholesale costs per pound, something doesn't seem to add up here as far as those contract numbers.

See several of my posts, above. All hams are not created equal. Without more specific information, there's little telling if this is a bargain or not.

398 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:44:26am

re: #395 BlueCanuck
If you noticed, it commented once or twice and has went buh bye.

399 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:44:52am

re: #376 DaddyG

Arguing over the price of the ham is a shiny thing distracting from the larger issue of "why is the government using stimulus money to fill budget shortfalls instead of infrastructure projects as promised?"

Yes, exactly. My guess is that they'll use the expenditures to mask the true cost of the Federal budget, then turn around and claim to have realized all kinds of "savings" as a result of moving so many expenditures onto another set of books.

400 callahan23  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:45:08am

re: #393 realwest

Hi realwest my friend, I didn't yet have the chance to forward your thanks to swamprat.

401 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:46:00am

re: #375 American Sabra

Only a small handful of people here even acknowledged that the government is FEEDING THE POOR. Instead you argue over a few dollar differences between deli meats that, which everyone should know, fluctuates greatly depending on what state you live in.

What it BOILS* down to is this. If Obama is doing it, it's evil, despicable and a communist program designed to enslave us all.

Whateverrrrrr.

(*I do like the puns, however.)

Hi American Sabra! The whole point of my posts above is exactly about the feeding the poor issue, not the price of ham. My concern is the most cost-effective use of government funds to achieve that end. Interjecting government at the Federal level between decisions made by the person needing the food, and the local entity where he or she will find it, doesn't seem very logical to me. Economically, it still seems better to fund programs at the point where the transactions will occur, than to make huge bulk purchases that then need to move through a pipeline to get to the same place.

402 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:46:00am

I'm headed out to Costco. I shall bring back real-time info about hams and their prices.

(Unless we've all lost interest by then.)

403 turn  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:46:34am

re: #389 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My dad lived in Fair Oaks.

I get it now, how stupid of me. For some reason I interpreted the Delta part of that post as referring to the Delta Force - you were talking about the California Delta and how much rice is produced there. my bad, you must have been really scratching your head about my first response, ha

404 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:46:35am

re: #402 EmmmieG

I'm headed out to Costco. I shall bring back real-time info about hams and their prices.

(Unless we've all lost interest by then.)

Good point. This is the innernut.

405 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:46:37am

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth Um, sorry but you must have missed the bolded part of his post - the one about JOBS. That's where I think he meant "failed".

406 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:47:23am

re: #385 Honorary Yooper

It sure as hell ain't Chicago.
I buy stuff in bulk at discount and throw it in the deep freeze. I can get pork loin for $1.48 a pound and sirloin steak for $3.28 a pound. I always buy in bulk, on sale and specials.
The government should be able to beat any price I can find.
I'm not defending the Drudge story It was misleading for sure. But when you buy in bulk you can save.

By the way I'm also respectful to those who are respectful to me.

407 Gus  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:48:00am

re: #397 SixDegrees

See several of my posts, above. All hams are not created equal. Without more specific information, there's little telling if this is a bargain or not.

It's water added ham:

The U.S. Department ofAgricultW'e invites offers pursuant to ANNOUNCEMENT LS-124, as amended, to sell cured, fully cooked, boneless, water added hams, for use in Federal food and nutrition programs. The hams are to be delivered in either the fresh chilled or frozen state as indicated by product type. Purchases will be made on a shipping basis to destinations indicated herein. The product must be shipped to the destinations within the shipping period. Destination quantities are estimates and are subject to adjustment based on offerings, changes in recipient needs, market conditions, and program operations.

You can see all of the specifics regard the "stimulus ham" here:

[Link: www.ams.usda.gov...]

Additionally, if you are going to purchase 760,000 pounds of water added ham your not going to pay retail per pound.

408 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:48:22am

re: #228 The False God

3) Why is the federal government making direct food purchases in bulk? Aren't federal funds supposed to be appropriated to state/local agencies for disaster relief, to be used at local discretion? It's absurd to buy the food at a national level. Where/how the hell are we going to store/move that kind of food, and why?

It's bought at the national level so the government can make sure the money goes to the right people.

It is absurd to purchase ham for food banks. Local food banks can find better deals and they know what's needed for their areas.

409 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:49:34am

re: #318 Iron Fist
Hey Bro' - what did you do say to that Nazi?!

410 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:49:53am

re: #373 iceman1960

Hey clown I haven't lived at home for over 30 years and I'm at work right now.
I've raised a family of 4 (6 mouths to feed all together) and they are all gone now.
I know how to shop in bulk.

That's nice.

What's the bulk price for prosciutto in your area? Or country ham? Or more simply: what kind of ham - exactly - are you talking about? From what part of the pig? Cured how, exactly? And please provide the same information on the ham the government purchased, so we can make an accurate comparison between the two.

411 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:49:54am

re: #378 Lincolntf

An hour up the road, we have it for $1.09 a lb (sliced). I guess we live in the ham capitol of the country.

Uh... That would be Capitol Hill.

412 ShanghaiEd  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:49:59am

My first thought is that the "million dollar ham" will take on a mythology of its own, since far fewer people see corrections or retractions than see the original story.

I'm guessing millions of people will still be spreading the story, years from now, as an example of how insane the Obama administration is. Sigh.

413 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:52:37am

re: #410 SixDegrees

That's nice.

What's the bulk price for prosciutto in your area? Or country ham? Or more simply: what kind of ham - exactly - are you talking about? From what part of the pig? Cured how, exactly? And please provide the same information on the ham the government purchased, so we can make an accurate comparison between the two.

I doubt the gubment is buying Prosciutto for the food bank program.

414 jcm  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:53:33am

re: #412 ShanghaiEd

My first thought is that the "million dollar ham" will take on a mythology of its own, since far fewer people see corrections or retractions than see the original story.

I'm guessing millions of people will still be spreading the story, years from now, as an example of how insane the Obama administration is. Sigh.

Silk purse out of a sows ear!

////////////

415 jaunte  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:53:54am

re: #412 ShanghaiEd

I'm optimistic about the chances for fresh insanities in the days to come.

416 Abu Al-Poopypants  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:54:03am

re: #412 ShanghaiEd


I'm guessing millions of people will still be spreading the story, years from now, as an example of how insane the Obama administration is. Sigh.

It's not as though there's a shortage of actual examples. I guess you could look at it as revenge against the ketchup is a vegetable crowd.

417 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:54:19am

re: #358 Honorary Yooper
Uh huh. And see my #352 - Mom sets foot in supermarkets at least twice a week.
Why do y'all assume the price of food is the same everywhere?
Serious question.

418 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:55:53am

re: #405 realwest

Um, sorry but you must have missed the bolded part of his post - the one about JOBS. That's where I think he meant "failed".

Sorry, RW, re-read his post and it should be obvious what he meant.

re: #235 rob.schmitt

This was sold to us as a "JOBS Program".

So, what jobs does this $100 Million create ??!!!
As well, you can buy ham at your local super market for $.79 / lb.

Sorry Charles, the FAIL belongs to you!

[emphasis added]

419 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:57:17am

I have purchased sliced ham for 89¢ a pound. It's not impossible. If I can do it I'm sure the gubment can. I live in an area where the cost of living is fairly low.
You could pay $200 a month for an apartment around here where some of you would probably have to pay $1000 to $2000 a month were you live.

420 bloodnok  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:57:21am

re: #412 ShanghaiEd

My first thought is that the "million dollar ham" will take on a mythology of its own, since far fewer people see corrections or retractions than see the original story.

I'm guessing millions of people will still be spreading the story, years from now, as an example of how insane the Obama administration is. Sigh.

Don't worry Ed, the scandal has already been marked down to $1.50 / $0.79 per pound. Hickory Smoked Outrage!

421 Syrah  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:58:01am

Will this price hold as inflation raises prices in the future?

Is this a contract price?

422 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:58:04am

re: #378 Lincolntf
What? You mean we're getting ripped off .30 a pound!
Why that can't be true, everyone knows all foods cost the same everywhere.

423 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:58:36am
424 BlueCanuck  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:58:46am

re: #414 jcm

Silk purse out of a sows ear!

////////////

No, no, no, no. That's spam again.

425 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 10:58:59am

re: #407 Gus 802

You can see all of the specifics regard the "stimulus ham" here:

[Link: www.ams.usda.gov...]

Additionally, if you are going to purchase 760,000 pounds of water added ham your not going to pay retail per pound.

Unfortunately, this isn't really specific enough. Nearly all ham sold in the US is water-added; it's fast and cheap to cure this way. And quality varies, both by cut, age and source.

I'm not seeing anything more than a waste of time here that will ultimately wind up blunting legitimate criticisms of this program. Even if the price turns out to be somewhat higher than market price, that's the whole point of stimulus spending - you're trying to get as much money into people's hands as quickly as possible, without causing unpleasant side effects.

The more important question is: should this be the route chosen to get money into people's hands? Or would it be better and more efficient to, say, just let them keep their own money in the first place, through a reduction in Federal withholdings and tax rates? More than the seventeen bucks a week people are currently getting, that is.

426 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:00:18am

re: #413 iceman1960

I doubt the gubment is buying Prosciutto for the food bank program.

So, what kind of ham is it buying, then? Without knowing that, it's impossible to decide whether this is an issue or not.

427 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:01:02am

re: #400 callahan23
Hey my friend, that's ok - I found him out here last night and thanked him myself!

428 LGoPs  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:01:15am

I hope they loin a lesson from this..........

429 jcm  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:01:41am

re: #405 realwest

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth

He's (#235 rob.schmitt) half right, or some fraction. Stimulus was "about jobs" not ham. Drudge goofed in reporting it as a "a slice" (or whatever), Charles didn't fail in calling out Drudge on that point.

The point of criticism should be why is stimulus money being spent on buy ham for food programs. But it's going to get lost in the noise over a "million dollar slice of ham."

If we're going to beat rampant socialism, we're going to have to have our facts straight.

430 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:03:54am

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth ah, sorry 'bout that. But you know that the Stimulus plan WAS sold to Congress (who didn't have the time to read it) as a JOBS bill, right?

431 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:03:55am

re: #429 jcm

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth

He's (#235 rob.schmitt) half right, or some fraction. Stimulus was "about jobs" not ham. Drudge goofed in reporting it as a "a slice" (or whatever), Charles didn't fail in calling out Drudge on that point.

The point of criticism should be why is stimulus money being spent on buy ham for food programs. But it's going to get lost in the noise over a "million dollar slice of ham."

If we're going to beat rampant socialism, we're going to have to have our facts straight.

Yes, exactly.

Not to mention that the argument, "I can buy ham cheaper than the government did!" is equivalent to saying "The government should be spending as little stimulus money as possible and spreading the purchases as thinly as possible!" Not a great criticism, when you come right down to it.

432 jcm  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:04:07am

re: #424 BlueCanuck

No, no, no, no. That's spam again.

Damn, now I'm confused. Porkulus is which cut again?

433 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:05:04am

re: #403 turn

I get it now, how stupid of me. For some reason I interpreted the Delta part of that post as referring to the Delta Force - you were talking about the California Delta and how much rice is produced there. my bad, you must have been really scratching your head about my first response, ha

(back in later)

Yes, I was wondering about it, but decided to turn the other Chico.

434 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:06:25am

re: #425 SixDegrees

Even if the price turns out to be somewhat higher than market price, that's the whole point of stimulus spending - you're trying to get as much money into people's hands as quickly as possible, without causing unpleasant side effects.

Kind of like giving billions to ACORN?

This stimulus was never about getting money into the private sector.

435 realwest  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:06:48am

Well y'all it's been..........interesting but I gotta go now.
Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

436 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:06:59am

re: #426 SixDegrees

So, what kind of ham is it buying, then? Without knowing that, it's impossible to decide whether this is an issue or not.

I've donated time working on food drives and with local food banks and everthing that I've ever seen Pork, Chicken or Beef is always in a can in order to increase shelf life. It's definitely just bulk meat and it isn't what you'd find at the market.

437 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:07:33am

re: #435 realwest
See you later my friend!

438 pingjockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:08:30am

Nap time I believe!

439 Gus  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:10:42am

re: #425 SixDegrees

Unfortunately, this isn't really specific enough. Nearly all ham sold in the US is water-added; it's fast and cheap to cure this way. And quality varies, both by cut, age and source.

I'm not seeing anything more than a waste of time here that will ultimately wind up blunting legitimate criticisms of this program. Even if the price turns out to be somewhat higher than market price, that's the whole point of stimulus spending - you're trying to get as much money into people's hands as quickly as possible, without causing unpleasant side effects.

The more important question is: should this be the route chosen to get money into people's hands? Or would it be better and more efficient to, say, just let them keep their own money in the first place, through a reduction in Federal withholdings and tax rates? More than the seventeen bucks a week people are currently getting, that is.

Well, the other links indicate that they've been purchasing these hams since FY 2002 and beyond. This specific sale refers to June 20, 2008:

April 28, 2009

USDA BUYS FROZEN HAMS:

The Agricultural Marketing Service of the U.S. Department of
Agriculture today purchased 760,000 pounds of ham products at a cost of approximately $1,191,000. These purchases were made with funds authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. This product will be used for distribution in the Emergency Food Assistance Program.

This is to be followed by more purchases under the stimulus spending bill:

May 20, 2009

USDA BUYS FROZEN HAMS:

The Agricultural Marketing Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture today purchased 4,080,000 pounds of ham products at a cost of approximately $7,375,000. These purchases were made with funds authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. This product will be used for distribution in the Emergency Food Assistance Program.

Frankly, since this has been going on for many years I don't really care. It was added to the stimulus bill but has been part of the Federal budget for a quite a while.

And again, and for anyone else that wants to look the rest of the reports are here:

[Link: www.ams.usda.gov...]

440 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:11:11am

re: #401 subsailor68

Hi American Sabra! The whole point of my posts above is exactly about the feeding the poor issue, not the price of ham. My concern is the most cost-effective use of government funds to achieve that end. Interjecting government at the Federal level between decisions made by the person needing the food, and the local entity where he or she will find it, doesn't seem very logical to me. Economically, it still seems better to fund programs at the point where the transactions will occur, than to make huge bulk purchases that then need to move through a pipeline to get to the same place.

Hi subsailor! Does anybody know to whom and from where the food was purchased? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to read every thread here today.

Actually it makes more sense to buy in bulk and then shipped to the needy. I don't know how this was done, but I'm assuming through some already formed programs, say people already collecting food stamps and the like. At any rate, since ham is $4.00/lb in California and in my supermarket it's about $3.00/lb and maybe somewhere in Mississippi it's $.80/lb, it certainly would make more sense NOT to buy locally, but to get the best deal possible and distribute. Seems like even if they paid $2.00/lb it would still be an average price.

Obviously people are hurting and $1.50 is not a lot of money for a pound of meat.

441 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:11:56am

re: #434 Wendya

Kind of like giving billions to ACORN?

This stimulus was never about getting money into the private sector.

Indeed; and I think there are more effective ways of getting the word out about this than squabbling over the price of ham.

442 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:13:12am

re: #439 Gus 802

LOL well there ya go. $154 (plus) / lb. What's so bad about that?

443 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #442 American Sabra

LOL well there ya go. $154 (plus) / lb. What's so bad about that?

woops... forgot that pesky "."

444 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:14:05am

re: #423 Iron Fist

Nothing. I didn't see a point, especially with the kid there. That is, of course, why they feel able to do this. If I pop him, the cops are going to arrest me (trust me on this ;-). When I was younger (and in better health) words would have been exchanged, maybe more, but there is still the factor of the little kid being in the mix. I can't see me, even in my wildest days, provoking a confrontation where the kid could wind up caught in the crossfire.

Perhaps some 90 year old who went ashore in the first wave at Omaha Beach will lay into him with his cane. I'd swear to the cops that the Nazi hit the veteran first.

445 Gus  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:14:59am

re: #442 American Sabra

LOL well there ya go. $154 (plus) / lb. What's so bad about that?

If I don't get any work coming in soon I might need one of those hams.

//Seriously -- more or less. ;)

446 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:16:24am

re: #439 Gus 802

Frankly, since this has been going on for many years I don't really care. It was added to the stimulus bill but has been part of the Federal budget for a quite a while.

And again, and for anyone else that wants to look the rest of the reports are here:

[Link: www.ams.usda.gov...]

And this is exactly the sort of dodgy accounting I've warned about upthread; here we have a program that is already funded as part of the ordinary Federal budget, being subsidized with "stimulus" funds. I don't care about the price; the problem I see is that this is masking the actual cost of this program, shifting a chunk of what ought to be accounted for as part of the Federal budget onto a separate set of books. The outcome is sure to be claims of "savings" in the Federal budget, even though what's really happened is a shell game.

I'm beginning to see why they wanted to shift the release of budget summaries into August. It allows them to accrue another month's worth of "savings" they can use to boost the health care bill.

447 Son of the Black Dog  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:17:08am

re: #432 jcm

Damn, now I'm confused. Porkulus is which cut again?

The unkindest cut of all.

448 Lincolntf  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:17:54am

re: #431 SixDegrees

The big deal isn't the ham itself, it's that there's no stimulus in the stimulus package. It's just another funding program with no difference between it and the countless others that litter every budget bill.
As for whether the Gov't should just pay whatever strikes their fancy in the hope that it will magically lift all boats, that's simplistic in the extreme. Overpaying for something never helps in the long run, it just distorts and retards the market. In this case (if we're overpaying, it's hard to tell with all the variables) it increases our debt, too.

449 subsailor68  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:22:41am

re: #440 American Sabra

Good points! I concur in the variations in the price of goods from state to state. And I, too, have not been able to find where the hams were purchased, or how they'll get to those in need.

Again, economically, I might tend to look at existing infrastructure - such as WalMart, Costco, etc. - then ask them to use that infrastructure to move goods from places where it may be now, to places where it's needed. And then stay out of the way, letting them do what they do best.

For example, the WalMart in my community is very supportive of local programs, including our senior center. The manager knows the folks who run these programs, and who needs what. He also knows how to move products from store to store to maximize efficiency.

450 SixDegrees  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:23:26am

re: #448 Lincolntf

The big deal isn't the ham itself, it's that there's no stimulus in the stimulus package. It's just another funding program with no difference between it and the countless others that litter every budget bill.

Correct; see my post, just above, discussing how this may be used to seriously fudge future budget figures, as it appears that this program isn't new, but existing, and is now being subsidized by the "stimulus" bill, possibly to create the illusion of "savings" down the road.

451 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:25:58am
452 Wendya  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:26:27am

Gov Richardson is very proud of the fact that the so-called stimulus has "created" a whopping 118 new jobs in New Mexico. Of course they are all government jobs. And guess what? The state will have to pick up the tab on those jobs after 2010. This has caused some democrats in our state to actually voice concerns since we have sagging revenues and can't afford to absorb a larger government payroll. Even the D's here realize government jobs don't stimulate the economy.

453 [deleted]  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:27:25am
454 iceman1960  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:31:22am

re: #348 Honorary Yooper

WTF are you getting pre-sliced ham for 1/2 that? I'd love to know since I usually pay about $3.33/lb for pre-sliced ham, retail. I once got it down to $2/lb using a sale and coupons, but I'd love to know where you're getting pre-sliced ham for $0.75/lb.

I'm guessing you haven't been in a grocery store in a long time, if ever. Maybe your mother does the shopping for you while you sit in your parents' basement hacking out that crappola on your computer.

Sixdegrees is winning me over into seeing his or her side of the issue and they did so without being an @sshole.
You might want to take some notes.

455 jcm  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:34:31am

re: #452 Wendya

Gov Richardson is very proud of the fact that the so-called stimulus has "created" a whopping 118 new jobs in New Mexico. Of course they are all government jobs. And guess what? The state will have to pick up the tab on those jobs after 2010. This has caused some democrats in our state to actually voice concerns since we have sagging revenues and can't afford to absorb a larger government payroll. Even the D's here realize government jobs don't stimulate the economy.

WA State is looking a $8 Billion deficit, per capita about the same as CA. They took the proposed stimulus money before the stimulus bill even passed and counted it in the last budget to help "balance" the budget.

456 Kobyashi Maru  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:36:51am

Really now, buying ham at 1.00 a pound when you're buying that much cant compare to buying one package at Winn-Dixie....I will admit that the site should have listed the amount and price per pound, maybe it needs t be kept refrigerated, or it's vacuum sealed. If this is the only "pork" that Drudge can find he's a loser..

457 debutaunt  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:42:46am

re: #375 American Sabra

Only a small handful of people here even acknowledged that the government is FEEDING THE POOR. Instead you argue over a few dollar differences between deli meats that, which everyone should know, fluctuates greatly depending on what state you live in.

What it BOILS* down to is this. If Obama is doing it, it's evil, despicable and a communist program designed to enslave us all.

Whateverrrrrr.

(*I do like the puns, however.)

I don't understand why food stamps aren't used to buy ham directly.

458 Underwhere Underthere  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:45:31am

Why are we comparing retail sliced at the deli prices you pay against wholesale/foodservice bulk pricing the government pays?

At least compare against something like Smart & Final or Sam's Club.

459 tedzilla99  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:46:04am

Actually, all Drudge did was link to the site, and his link text was from the page text. No quantities are listed on that page. So it's not a fail by Drudge at all, although now that the 'clarification' is posted it might look that way. And, spending that much on ham when the stimulus was supposed to be for 'shovel ready projects' is the actual fail.

460 tedzilla99  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:53:03am

re: #98 Sharmuta

I don't think it's a stimulus, but I wouldn't call it a waste or a fraud either. I think it's but for the Grace of God I don't need any of it. Might be some hungry kids with an unemployed parent that need it though.

Taking money from families, buying food with it and then giving it back to families isn't waste or fraud? Still logic-allergic, I see.

461 bnichols10  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:55:27am

I'm late to this, but what was the point of the stimulus anyway? Didn't we have to get this passed right away without delay? Wasn't this intended to fund 'shovel-ready' jobs? But they used it to buy food?

If they are going to make a website to list how this is being spent then they deserve all of the criticism for not providing all of the necessary details.

462 Capitalistincharge  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:12:56pm

It appears to me that Drudge ran what was on recovery.org. Hey, just reporting what the gummit posts. Perhaps they have learned a lesson here: 1. We are watching what you are doing, Mr. Politician
2. If you are going to have transparency, then make sure you
put all of the information on the website.

I disagree that Drudge is trying to run rumors. If anything it points out how inept our government is ....and now they want us to believe they will run our Healthcare better than we can. And, I want to know how they are distributing this food.

This is the same thing as with all of the other stimulus programs out there. Incomplete planning and information means nothing but waste and corruption. We are fucked, kids.

463 kynna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:17:00pm

re: #131 Charles

Yes, several blogs ran with the story that it was for one ham, including Instapundit.

Instapundit has added a couple of links to that post with the new information on the story.

464 tedzilla99  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:18:05pm

re: #462 Capitalistincharge

It appears to me that Drudge ran what was on recovery.org. Hey, just reporting what the gummit posts. Perhaps they have learned a lesson here: 1. We are watching what you are doing, Mr. Politician
2. If you are going to have transparency, then make sure you
put all of the information on the website.

I disagree that Drudge is trying to run rumors. If anything it points out how inept our government is ....and now they want us to believe they will run our Healthcare better than we can. And, I want to know how they are distributing this food.

This is the same thing as with all of the other stimulus programs out there. Incomplete planning and information means nothing but waste and corruption. We are fucked, kids.

Exactly! Good post

465 Mike McDaniel  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:21:56pm

I think the real question ought to be: How much of this money is being kicked back to the Democrat Party? 5%? 10%?

Remember, this is the party that is notorious for steering contracts to friends and family...and Obama's Porkulus was $700+ billion worth of virtually unmonitored spending.

Welcome to Obama's World. Not only do the tax peasants get raked over the coals, they get to pay through the nose to keep the Democrat Gangsters in power to boot!

466 RedHouseBlueState  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:24:33pm

I saw the head line when it went up this morning, I didn't get the impression he was referring to 2 lbs of ham.

467 xRos  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:27:34pm

WOOHOO I CAN POST!

Anyway, I also did not get the impression we spent X amt of dollars for a single ham, sliced or not.

Honestly, who really thought that?

468 Mournie  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:32:03pm

You can't get ham with food stamp cards? Why is the gov buying the product itself? First pork, now ham... so much to squeal about.

469 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:38:38pm

re: #445 Gus 802

If I don't get any work coming in soon I might need one of those hams.

//Seriously -- more or less. ;)

Yeek Government Ham... probably tastier with the gov cheese.

Sorry to hear. I guess it's no comfort to know you're not alone. Doesn't pay the bills, does it. Good luck to you.

470 soxfan4life  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:44:07pm

re: #461 bnichols10

I'm late to this, but what was the point of the stimulus anyway? Didn't we have to get this passed right away without delay? Wasn't this intended to fund 'shovel-ready' jobs? But they used it to buy food?

If they are going to make a website to list how this is being spent then they deserve all of the criticism for not providing all of the necessary details.

Just get Sheriff Joe Biden to give you the right number for that website and all of the information you request will be there.//////////

471 Noam Chumpski  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:48:29pm

$1.50/lb is twice the going rate in GA (Whole Foods excluded).

Maybe that's the story.

Trying to point out how stupid it is to "stimulate" the economy with Federal Ham purchases isn't something to sneer at, Charles... unless you sell ham? You're not a pawn of the industrial-ham complex, are you?

472 Noam Chumpski  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:49:13pm

Yes, the above is just a joke...

473 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:50:15pm

re: #457 debutaunt

I don't understand why food stamps aren't used to buy ham directly.

Because more people are in trouble now than ever before. I suspect by the close of the summer, we'll see 10% unemployment. Some states already have it. Michigan is like 15% IIRC.

I don't know enough about this particular program to comment, but I can't see why people would ever complain about feeding the poor. Not even the "poor". People who have fallen on hard times and just need a little help to get them through.

Gus in his excellent post at #439 noted it's a program that's been going on for years, meaning it was active during the Bush Administration.

474 American Sabra  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:53:59pm

re: #449 subsailor68

Read Gus' post at 439. Good stuff. Good links. Shows the cost and destination cities.

475 tradewind  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 12:56:33pm

re: #27 Ringo the Gringo

At Bistro DB?

476 kynna  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 1:11:02pm

re: #473 American Sabra

Because more people are in trouble now than ever before. I suspect by the close of the summer, we'll see 10% unemployment. Some states already have it. Michigan is like 15% IIRC.

I don't know enough about this particular program to comment, but I can't see why people would ever complain about feeding the poor. Not even the "poor". People who have fallen on hard times and just need a little help to get them through.

Gus in his excellent post at #439 noted it's a program that's been going on for years, meaning it was active during the Bush Administration.

Passive aggressive much?

Nobody here wants the poor to starve. In fact, you'll probably find a good many lizards donating food, time and effort to their local food banks. Just because a program is labeled 'help for the poor' doesn't mean it's the best way to go about helping the poor. And just because the Bush Administration was involved in said program doesn't mean it's golden, either.

"If we spend an extra $10,000 dollars and feed only one child, we'll still have done something good!" (see, I can be passive aggressive too)

477 LC LaWedgie  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 1:39:09pm

I wouldn't feed buck-fifty scrap heap ham to a dog - especially if that was the lowest bidder out of two.
Of such are the dreams of government-provided health care made of.

478 tjseagrove  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:20:19pm

And now it appears the page he linked to has removed the reference to "2lb ham.." It was typically government wording for an item. They should have listed the quantity. The real question should be, who is tied to CLOUGHERTY PACKING, LLC of Los Angles, CA.....

Tom

479 ExCamelJockey  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:56:52pm

re: #477 LC LaWedgie

I wouldn't feed buck-fifty scrap heap ham to a dog - especially if that was the lowest bidder out of two.
Of such are the dreams of government-provided health care made of.

I can buy frozen, trimmed bacon off the CME in 40,000 pound contracts for 66 cents a pound. I'm pretty sure pork at wholesale prices of $1.50 a pound will buy gourmet dog food ...

480 Hawaii69  Mon, Jul 20, 2009 3:17:15pm

re: #8 lawhawk

Yet, those details were omitted from the Recovery.gov website, requiring further inquiries to determine what was going on with these purchases. Nice.

The same thing goes for the $1.4 million door replacement. The actual items and their costs are hidden away, but even with the door replacement, there's more than meets the eye.

The door replacement in question is a hangar door, but the Defense Department said it would cost $246,000, so additional work is being done - but not provided in the Recovery.gov information.


Which is why they are spending up to $18 million dollars to redesign the whole recovery.gov database, infrastructute, and website.

The same people ranting about the million dollar ham, were recently ranting about $18 milling being spent to "redo a web page"...another misrepresenation.


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