White House Beer Tastes Better

PoliticsJuly 2009 • Views: 3,216

Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. said he accepted an invitation to have a beer with the white police officer who arrested him this week.

Gates, a black scholar, in a statement posted late Friday at The Root, accepted President Obama’s invitation to come to the White House and have a beer together with Sgt. James Crowley and the president while saying he wanted to use his “unfortunate experience … to diminish racial profiling.”

Jump to bottom

554 comments

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:17:28pm

It tastes great? I thought it was less filling.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:18:22pm

I wonder if Obama will have the staff serve bitters.

pingjockey Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:18:32pm

Guess ya can't say no to the prez, but sheesh.

Athens Runaway Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:19:33pm

That's funny, because Crowley taught other police officers how to "diminish racial profiling."

Gates is a professor who does the opposite of Crowley's job.

BignJames Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:19:47pm

Beer...or Malt Liquor? It's a cultural thing.

SixDegrees Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:11pm

Part of me is hoping this devolves into a drunken cage match.

Athens Runaway Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:12pm

Just to clarify, Crowley was hand-picked by an African-American police commish to teach a class on how to avoid racial profiling.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:17pm

I hope Obama remembers his door keys.

Dr. Shalit Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:17pm

It Does -

So Long As it is - "Brewed in Boston" - by the Samuel Adams Folk - Best Beer in the World.

-S-

BignJames Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:35pm

re: #2 OldLineTexan

I wonder if Obama will have the staff serve bitters.

/

kinda' doubt it.

lobo91 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:37pm

And just how much is this going to cost the taxpayers?

You know they're going to send a government plane to Boston to pick them up...

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:20:41pm

I hope it's televised- we can live blog it.

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:21:13pm

Well, they damn well better have good beer at the White House. This is our country's honor that is at stake here. If the POTUS is caught serving some kind of horse piss there, it will be time for a revolution. I, personally, will incite an appropriately drunken mob of Freepers to march on Washington.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:21:28pm

re: #5 BignJames

Beer...or Malt Liquor? It's a cultural thing.

In Texas, it's a legal labelling issue based on alcohol content.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:22:27pm

re: #12 Sharmuta

I hope it's televised- we can live blog it.

Will it be on a Friday night? This could be pretty sweet.

Blotto with Barry
Hammered with Hussein
Off the hook with Obama

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:22:31pm

re: #9 Dr. Shalit

It Does -

So Long As it is - "Brewed in Boston" - by the Samuel Adams Folk - Best Beer in the World.

1,000,000 updings!

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:22:53pm

They can have my beer when they pry it from my cold dead hand.

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:23:35pm

re: #11 lobo91

And just how much is this going to cost the taxpayers?

You know they're going to send a government plane to Boston to pick them up...

You wouldn't expect them to drive home, would you?

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:23:52pm

encore...

Youtube Video

Dr. Shalit Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:24:06pm

re: #11 lobo91

And just how much is this going to cost the taxpayers?

You know they're going to send a government plane to Boston to pick them up...

lobo91 -

Lemme see now - a 6-Pack of "Sam" is $6-8 give or take depending on state alcohol taxes. The President said "a beer" - Lets say $4 for the beer - the rest is transportation and security.

-S-

BignJames Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:24:12pm

re: #14 OldLineTexan

In Texas, it's a legal labelling issue based on alcohol content.

Un,huh...they add a little bit of corn sugar/syrup at bottling to Malt Liquor...for a little extra fermentation.

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:24:28pm

Spread the Beer around!

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:24:44pm

re: #15 OldLineTexan

It's pretty important stuff. Worthy of prime time.

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:25:23pm

don't do it Crowley...you are being used

Dr. Shalit Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:25:24pm

re: #20 Dr. Shalit

Reply to Self -

Revise and extend - AND Pres. Obama gts to keep 3 Bottles. Good deal!

-S-

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:25:24pm

re: #2 OldLineTexan

I wonder if Obama will have the staff serve bitters.

/

WAB will be in the other room, so no.
/

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:25:39pm

re: #21 BignJames

Un,huh...they add a little bit of corn sugar/syrup at bottling to Malt Liquor...for a little extra fermentation.

? - Whatever. My favorite beer was once unavailable in this state because the importer would not change the label to read "malt liquor".

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:26:06pm

When the world hands you lemons, make lemonaid and serve it to the people who gave you the lemons...

or something like that.

big steve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:26:16pm

Here's to hoping Crowley doesn't accept.

Targetpractice Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:26:30pm

Man, what a hard-working president we have. Having instituted world peace, feeding all the hungry of the world, eliminated poverty, and balanced the budget while providing every American first-class health care, he takes a breather to sit down and crack open a cold one with a college professor and a cop.

/do I really need it?

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:26:32pm

re: #23 Sharmuta

It's pretty important stuff. Worthy of prime time.

It's part of that dialogue on race we're supposed to be having.

I took 6-7 subjects at a time in college; I can handle it.

pre-Boomer Marine brat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:26:44pm

Anyone who heads an Institute named after W.E.B. Du Bois will (subconsciously) want to keep racial profiling in place. Du Bois' writings are used as part of the core gospel of Black Victimology. They function as the secular equivalent of Cone's Black Liberation Theology. If King's dream comes true, Gates' emotional rice bowl will be broken.

davinvalkri Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:27:27pm

Hey, if it gets Gates to calm down with his "RACIST!" schtick, fine by me.

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:27:58pm

Gates is still calling it racial profiling. Forget the beer, Barack. This is going to be a whine fest.

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:28:26pm

I imagine a personal invite to the White House is hard to decline, but I hope Sgt. Crowley comes down with a sudden case of the 'Blue Flu'...

pre-Boomer Marine brat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:28:31pm

re: #33 davinvalkri

Hey, if it gets Gates to calm down with his "RACIST!" schtick, fine by me.

He's not about to do that -- though he might play nice at the WH.

freedomsound Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:29:15pm

re: #24 albusteve

don't do it Crowley...you are being used

Sgt Crowley should accept the invitation with a statement similar to Gates'.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:29:48pm

I wonder if President Obama will show them the bus?

SixDegrees Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:30:03pm

re: #24 albusteve

don't do it Crowley...you are being used

In another thread, someone mentioned that the whole beer idea was Crowley's to begin with. And even if not, he'd be pilloried if he declined. So yes, he's being used, right there. If he accepts, he helps divert attention from the real issue: 0's condemnation of the police as "stupid" without having all the facts available to him. So he's being used in that case, too.

But now that the offer's been extended, it would be bad form to decline. At least if he shows up, he can be charming and gracious and chop the knees out from underneath the yammering about racism.

big steve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:30:52pm

re: #35 Fenway_Nation

I imagine a personal invite to the White House is hard to decline, but I hope Sgt. Crowley comes down with a sudden case of the 'Blue Flu'...

Ralph J. Perk, Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio, once turned down a White House invite (believe it was under G. Ford) because it was his bowling night.

anotherindyfilmguy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:31:00pm

I think the SGT in question should take the opportunity to serve them both legal notice of pending defamation litigation... then take his beer, sit back and watch the fireworks...
just a thought...

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:31:28pm

If Obama had a sense of humor, he'd have the Secret Service frisk Gates but not Crowley.

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:32:53pm

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:32:54pm

Conservatives will be pissed because Obama will be drinking on the job. Brits will be offended because the beer will be cold. The French will be miffed because they're not drinking wine. Russians will be enraged because there's no vodka. CAIR will seethe at everybody.

gman Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:33:17pm

"Gates added that he will be doing a documentary on racial profiling for PBS."
I sure as hell do not want my tax money going to PBS now.

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:34:26pm

re: #29 big steve

Here's to hoping Crowley doesn't accept.

He suggested the idea in his phone call w/ Obama.

Ben G. Hazi Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:34:35pm

re: #43 VegasRick

That shit's not funny...at all.

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:34:35pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Conservatives will be pissed because Obama will be drinking on the job. Brits will be offended because the beer will be cold. The French will be miffed because they're not drinking wine. Russians will be enraged because there's no vodka. CAIR will seethe at everybody.

Liberals will be pissed because they're always pissed.

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:35:03pm

re: #46 JustMyView

He seems like a stand up guy. I don't see why he wouldn't go.

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:35:25pm

re: #45 gman

"Gates added that he will be doing a documentary on racial profiling for PBS."
I sure as hell do not want my tax money going to PBS now.

Required viewing in all diversity trainings and classrooms next year.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:35:41pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Conservatives will be pissed because Obama will be drinking on the job. Brits will be offended because the beer will be cold. The French will be miffed because they're not drinking wine. Russians will be enraged because there's no vodka. CAIR will seethe at everybody.

Not me. I think he should relax a bit once in a while. The White House has started aging people unnaturally. I will change my mind if I see a beer bong in use, however.

calcajun Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:35:50pm

re: #43 VegasRick

Not cool. Really.

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:35:56pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

He seems like a stand up guy. I don't see why he wouldn't go.

I'd do the old switch-the-glasses routine.

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:36:41pm

There's also the matter of some audio being released. My guess is that it doesn't favor Gates (and by extention, 0bama) which is why they're so concillatory all of a sudden.

debutaunt Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:36:46pm

re: #29 big steve

Here's to hoping Crowley doesn't accept.

Well somebody has to be classy.

freedomsound Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:37:01pm

re: #42 HelloDare

If Obama had a sense of humor, he'd have the Secret Service frisk Gates but not Crowley.

LMAO, now that's some funny shit right there.

calcajun Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:37:14pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

It's a no-win situation for Crowley. He goes and he will get talked at, lectured and hectored.

His union should tell him he can't go. Irony.

gman Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:37:24pm

re: #50 JCM

Required viewing in all diversity trainings and classrooms next year.

Yeah, isn't that ironic. Crowley will be probably be forced to use Gates' video in the racial profiling class he teaches at the academy.

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:38:03pm

re: #54 Fenway_Nation

There's also the matter of some audio being released. My guess is that it doesn't favor Gates (and by extention, 0bama) which is why they're so concillatory all of a sudden.

Imagine what's going on behind the scene.

calcajun Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:38:28pm

re: #50 JCM

Required viewing in all diversity trainings and classrooms next year.

They'd do better showing the original "In the Heat of the Night".

a5minmajor Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:39:41pm

Not even if they handed me all the Guinness I could drink.

(which is a considerable amount, mind you.)

I hope the Cambridge P.D. releases those dispatch tapes at some point...I wanna hear that professional victim make a giant ASS of himself on national news.

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:39:52pm

re: #59 HelloDare

Furious spinning?

This would be the ace in the hole for Crowley, Haas and the various police unions, I imagine.

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:40:01pm

Youtube Video

/someone owes someone an apology

Velvet Elvis Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:41:30pm

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:41:37pm

There's been a real poisoning of the well in political discourse. The other side must be demonized at all times. Even when trying to make amends, build bridges or come to a compromise - some want all out war. Both sides do this.

And we wonder why everything is so divisive and polarized these days.

Dr. Shalit Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:42:38pm

re: #27 OldLineTexan

? - Whatever. My favorite beer was once unavailable in this state because the importer would not change the label to read "malt liquor".

OldLineTexan -

You got "THE PROGRAM" - when prohibition was repealed, the States got the Right to regulate the living hell out of alcohol.
I have "imbibed" in your state, as a member of a "club" in Mesquite, TX, (the Little M Just Outside the Big D.) Joining cost $2. Drinking was reasonable. Was a HOOT to me at the time.
Here in NJ we have "Ghetto Beer" - 8.1 to 10.5% Alcohol - available in 24 0z. cans &/or 40 oz. bottles, depending on brand. Works for me - top of the world - an "attitude adjustment" for $1.50, including tax! - for a 24 oz. can.
If I need more "brain bleach" there is always Laird's (the Local - from the Best Bathtubs of Freehold, NJ) or Traveler's Club - from Baltimore, MD, whatever.
Remember this - besides a kiss being a kiss - In Jersey, Everything's Legal as Long as You Don't Get Caught - Travelling Wilbury's - 1988, Tweeter and the Monkey Man. That is all.

-S-

Ben G. Hazi Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:43:11pm

re: #54 Fenway_Nation

There's also the matter of some audio being released. My guess is that it doesn't favor Gates (and by extention, 0bama) which is why they're so concillatory all of a sudden.

I imagine that Gates might be looking at lawyering up, especially if the tapes tell the story that Sgt. Crowley wrote in his incident report. Gates (and Dear Leader, by extension), at the very least, might be eating some crow, otherwise Gates might be looking at the receiving end of a slander/libel suit, should Crowley pursue it.

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:44:43pm

re: #65 Sharmuta

I don't think it's so much as 'making amends' on 0bama's part as it is 'making it go away'...

If I was half the professional as Crowley is at his trade, my being slandered and dismissed as 'stupid' by the President of the United States wouldn't just go away with an invite for a beer at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:45:07pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Conservatives will be pissed because Obama will be drinking on the job.

Actually, I think Conservatives will be relieved. At least there will appear to be a reason for the incompetence.

Orangutan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:45:43pm

This is really sad - no two ways about it. There's no good outcome for the police officer by taking this charade further; but it looks like a feeble attempt to recast this incident as an opportunity to solve a problem through compromise, where in fact there is a single bad actor. It's unfortunate, too, because this tactic bails out a lot of bad actors.

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:46:15pm

re: #60 calcajun

They'd do better showing the original "In the Heat of the Night".

Good movie!

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:47:05pm

re: #54 Fenway_Nation

There's also the matter of some audio being released. My guess is that it doesn't favor Gates (and by extention, 0bama) which is why they're so concillatory all of a sudden.

The afternoon with the beer will probably put an end to the situation -- audio and all. That's the reason for this happy get together, IMO. Moving on. But, hopefully, Obama will be less eager to play the race card in the future.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:47:12pm

Aw, man ... this guy ate the dessert for the beer party.

Ben G. Hazi Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:47:27pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Conservatives will be pissed because Obama will be drinking on the job. Brits will be offended because the beer will be cold. The French will be miffed because they're not drinking wine. Russians will be enraged because there's no vodka. CAIR will seethe at everybody.

I just can't picture Dear Leader as a beer drinker...

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:47:30pm

If the Gates-Crowley meeting were film by the Naked Gun series.

The Secret Service frisks Gates, break his cane in two to make sure there's no sword inside, hands the pieces to him and welcomes Gates to the White House. Crowley gives the Secret Service agent a high five and waltzes on in.

Gus Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:49:33pm

I would like to apologize to the Sumerian people for the popularization of beer in Europe by the Celtic and Germanic tribes.

BHO

Cato the Elder Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:49:34pm

While I was in NYC this week I booked a sunset tour of Manhattan with Haku the service dog. I was already on the boat with him - past two checkpoints and the ticket seller, no problem - and seated on the upper deck where all the people were when a crew member came over and told me the captain didn't want the dog on the boat and I could either leave or go downstairs to the glassed-in part and be isolated from everyone else.

I proceeded to explain the ADA as it pertains to service animals and the anti-discrimination provisions of the law, and said I wasn't moving. The guy caved, but then wanted to argue with me about the tone I used (the words "DOJ lawsuit" escaped my lips). I told him the conversation was over and he stomped off.

Later he came over to apologize and I offered to buy him a beer when he comes to my town.

This was a black-on-white interaction but there was no racism in question and the beer offer sealed the deal.

And I introduced Haku to the captain, who said Haku the calmest, least problematic service dog he'd ever had on board.

Beer rules!

And Lady Liberty at dusk with the crown lights on brought tears to my eyes...

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:50:29pm

re: #73 OldLineTexan

Aw, man ... this guy ate the dessert for the beer party.

/

ROFL!

Manfred the Wonder Dog Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:51:01pm

If Gates wants to diminish racial profiling, he could, you know, just stop doing it. He assumed Crowley was oppressing him, just because the man was white.

Gates sounds like a guy doing a cross between one of Chris Rock's "Keeping the black man down" routines and one of Sharpton's rants.

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:51:19pm

re: #74 talon_262

I just can't picture Dear Leader as a beer drinker...

You don't have to imagine it: Barack Obama - Part of the Beer Conspiracy

Miss Trixie Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:51:52pm

re: #63 Killian Bundy

Ick. That's nauseating. It saddens me to see an obviously well-educated black man see himself as a victim when clearly he's not. Does this taint the rest of his life? He's done well for himself and it's still not good enough?

Where's Bill Cosby to smack some sense into this self-victimized dunderhead?

Bloodnok Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:52:19pm

re: #68 Fenway_Nation

I don't think it's so much as 'making amends' on 0bama's part as it is 'making it go away'...

If I was half the professional as Crowley is at his trade, my being slandered and dismissed as 'stupid' by the President of the United States wouldn't just go away with an invite for a beer at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

But if you're the whole professional you'd sit down, talk about it, and see what comes of it. If there's an apology or closure reached with the parties involved it's a valuable step towards putting this whole issue behind us.

FrogMarch Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:52:26pm

Gates and Obama revealed much. Gotta soothe it over with some beer.

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:52:58pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Conservatives will be pissed because Obama will be drinking on the job. Brits will be offended because the beer will be cold. The French will be miffed because they're not drinking wine. Russians will be enraged because there's no vodka. CAIR will seethe at everybody.

So, what's the downside?

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:53:51pm

re: #24 albusteve

Totally agree with you on this. Gates is trying to drop this now because he knows public sentiment is against him. We've all know what the police report says. Gates is the one who turned this into a racial issue.

I'm just sick of all this race-baiting. Crowley, take this guy to court and get justice!

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:54:07pm

re: #84 Shiplord Kirel

So, what's the downside?

The beer was flown in from Milwaukee at tax payer expense?

Miss Trixie Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:54:25pm

re: #71 JCM

Good movie!

One of MY favorites - I've always loved Sidney Poitier.

Foul Owl on the Prowl:

Youtube Video

Danny Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:55:40pm

re: #79 Manfred the Wonder Dog

If Gates wants to diminish racial profiling, he could, you know, just stop doing it. He assumed Crowley was oppressing him, just because the man was white..

Bingo.

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:55:50pm

Should we wait to hear what Colin Powell has to say about this? I now take all my cues from him.

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:56:13pm

I'm hoping Sgt. Crowley goes to the white house and proceeds to lecture those other two clowns on racial profiling. Like assuming just because a police officer is white that he will unfairly harass a black man, and siding with the black guy over a white police officer without knowing all of the facts.

That kind of racial profiling.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:56:44pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

You don't have to imagine it: Barack Obama - Part of the Beer Conspiracy

The button with Obama's face Photo-shopped in is troubling.

BignJames Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:56:44pm

re: #27 OldLineTexan

? - Whatever. My favorite beer was once unavailable in this state because the importer would not change the label to read "malt liquor".

Yeah...we had an alcohol cap on beer 'til about 3 years ago...if you wanted a brew above 5%...you had to brew it yourself.

Shiplord Kirel Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:57:06pm

Eegad! Someone got the Stinky boot on a beer thread?

"Things have been so serious around here." Paul Atreides in Dune.

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:57:27pm

I get the feeling this is going to be all sweetness and light shortly, then somewhere down the road, Professor Gates will say or do something just as blatantly racial.

Wonder what the reaction will be then?

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:58:07pm

re: #86 Sharmuta

The beer was flown in from Milwaukee at tax payer expense?

Maybe he'll buy local?

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:59:24pm

re: #63 Killian Bundy

Gates: "What it made me realize is how vulnerable all black men are, how vulnerable all people of color are and all poor people are to capricious forces like a rogue policemen ...”

Wow, this event changed his whole way of thinking. Who knew?

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:59:25pm

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report
Officer accused of profiling in Gates case taught academy cadets how not to
Black officer at scholar's home supports arrest

/the truth is out there

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 3:59:56pm

Sgt. Crowley seems like a fair and decent guy. He also seems like a guy who does not back down. I would love to be a fly on the wall in this meeting.

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:00:18pm

re: #96 HelloDare

Wow, this event changed his whole way of thinking. Who knew?

I didn't know he was poor.

100

wrenchwench Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:01:19pm

re: #98 Racer X

Sgt. Crowley seems like a fair and decent guy. He also seems like a guy who does not back down. I would love to be a fly ~~on the wall~~ in the beer in this meeting.

FTFY

101

Gus Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:01:46pm

Mr. Crowley

Youtube Video

102

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:03:14pm

re: #85 brockton808

Totally agree with you on this. Gates is trying to drop this now because he knows public sentiment is against him. We've all know what the police report says. Gates is the one who turned this into a racial issue.

I'm just sick of all this race-baiting. Crowley, take this guy to court and get justice!

it's been pointed out that the Beer-in was Crowleys idea...that changes everything...he can do what he wants...I would not even consisder drinking with BO myself and stiffing him would be a great honor for me, but I'm a divider, not a uniter

103

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:03:36pm

Wonder how much Gates speaking fees just increased. Couldn't find him listed with any speakers bureau though he does give a lot of speeches.

104

Lincolntf Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:05:14pm

re: #63 Killian Bundy

Dear God, he's totally shameless. Poor man, my ass.

105

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:05:38pm

re: #94 irongrampa

I get the feeling this is going to be all sweetness and light shortly, then somewhere down the road, Professor Gates will say or do something just as blatantly racial.

Wonder what the reaction will be then?

Same as now. He'll look to sue and whine.

106

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:06:27pm

the continuing Gatesgate saga...there is no more

107

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:07:25pm

re: #82 Bloodnok

But if you're the whole professional you'd sit down, talk about it, and see what comes of it. If there's an apology or closure reached with the parties involved it's a valuable step towards putting this whole issue behind us.

I agree with you. I understand nerves are raw, but if we're going to make things better we have to sit down and discuss it like adults, not harbor resentment or further inflame things. The President should have kept his mouth shut, but since he didn't he can at least try to set things straight and doing it over a beer is as nice as it will likely get.

108

Ojoe Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:07:35pm

Fix the economy Obama moron.

109

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:07:55pm

re: #93 Shiplord Kirel

Eegad! Someone got the Stinky boot on a beer thread?

"Things have been so serious around here." Paul Atreides in Dune.

Who?
Where?

110

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:08:09pm

It's a teachable moment.

/a trumped up, cut out of whole cloth teachable moment

111

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:08:28pm

re: #108 Ojoe

Fix the economy Obama moron.

Same response as last time ;-)

He is, in his own image.

112

Lincolntf Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:08:32pm

re: #102 albusteve

According to this NYT-owned newspaper, the Worcester Telegram and Gazette (they love Obama, as the heading will show you) as well as the Herald, Obama invited him, not the other way around. I've heard conflicting reports, but the local papers are unanimous as far as I can tell.

113

Gretchen Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:08:49pm

Suppose Crowley left without getting ID from Gates and it just so happened that there had been a break in and Gates was tied up in the back room with a gun to his head while another man was impersonating him at the front door? Would Crowley be accused of not protecting black citizens equally?

Obama's immediately characterized Officer Crowley as racist - although he never articulated this directly when he was asked the question he started in on a speech about racial profiling, so he immediately assumed white police officer arrests a black man = racial bias. In fact Gate's assumption that Crowley was a racist is proof enough.

Oh lord, I hope Crowley has good sense not to order a pale ale, but gets a black and tan instead.

114

liberandos Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:09:50pm

Is it just me, or is Obama exactly what the left claimed GWB to be?

We are so cool that we can resolve this whole issue over a beer... Does Obama think he is stepping in to moderate his neighbors dispute over a lawnmower or something?

He fanned the flames of this, and the right thing to do would be to offer an apology, but he will paint the Sergent's actions as being part of the problem.

How does the MSM let him get away with this? What would the late night shows do if Bush had offered a beer at the WH?

Liberandos

115

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:10:10pm

8 days of this supercharged, electrifying story...ho hum...then they go drink beer...ain't America great!

116

J.D. Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:11:04pm

So it's a date and Crowley's in?

117

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:11:18pm

re: #115 albusteve

8 days of this supercharged, electrifying story...ho hum...then they go drink beer...ain't America great!

I'll say this, a few beers is better that Watts redux.

118

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:11:45pm

re: #112 Lincolntf

According to this NYT-owned newspaper, the Worcester Telegram and Gazette (they love Obama, as the heading will show you) as well as the Herald, Obama invited him, not the other way around. I've heard conflicting reports, but the local papers are unanimous as far as I can tell.

I have no clue...I would not be surprised at all if BO turned the tables on the invite part of it, or his MSM minions

119

Last Mohican Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:12:16pm

Gates continued. "If my experience leads to the lessening of the occurrence of racial profiling, then I would find that enormously gratifying. Because, in the end, this is not about me at all; it is about the creation of a society in which 'equal justice before law' is a lived reality."

Not if Professor Gates has anything to say about it.

120

Ojoe Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:12:36pm

O for a parliamentary system and a vote of confidence right now.

121

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:12:42pm

re: #89 brockton808
re: #102 albusteve

You're right. That would change everything. Crowley has been very gracious to BO so far. I'm guessing he was a BO supporter before all of this.

That said, what will it take to teach these race-baiters a lesson?

122

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:12:47pm

re: #117 JCM

I'll say this, a few beers is better that Watts redux.

that was a major kegger there!

123

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:13:20pm

re: #121 brockton808

re: #102 albusteve

You're right. That would change everything. Crowley has been very gracious to BO so far. I'm guessing he was a BO supporter before all of this.

That said, what will it take to teach these race-baiters a lesson?

cut out their tongues

124

Lincolntf Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:13:40pm

re: #114 liberandos

Who else, in the long history of celebrities and politicians getting into (real or imagined) "racial" trouble, has the instigator been able to walk away clean by offering the offended party a freakin' beer? Usually it costs multiple grovelings on TV if not an outright career death ("Macaca").
Whatever, enough Americans have seen him for what he really is, no matter where the story goes from here.

125

Gella Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:13:45pm

re: #119 Last Mohican

Not if Professor Gates has anything to say about it.

Obama Seeks to Clarify 'Stupidly' Comment, Praises White Policeman
President Obama stopped short of an apology to Sgt. James Crowley for saying he "acted stupidly" for arresting black Harvard scholar Henry Lewis Gates Jr., but said he should have chosen his words more carefully.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

126

KipAllen Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:13:56pm

Personally, I'd never sit down and drink a beer with a person who called me a racist and insulted my mother. I dearly love my beer, but I'm particular about with whom I drink.

127

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:13:58pm

Crowley should demand a lifetime supply of beer for this.

/the treatment he's received is nothing short of outrageous

128

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:14:59pm

re: #121 brockton808

re: #102 albusteve

You're right. That would change everything. Crowley has been very gracious to BO so far. I'm guessing he was a BO supporter before all of this.

That said, what will it take to teach these race-baiters a lesson?

A video of the entire incident shown on the ten o'clock news. My money is on Crowley proving he handled himself like a professional.

129

Ojoe Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:15:10pm

Since I've been called "a typical white person," can I come too? I'm owed at least a 6 pack.

130

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:15:35pm

If I were Crowley, I'd want a video-camera close by.

131

Last Mohican Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:15:45pm

re: #126 KipAllen

Personally, I'd never sit down and drink a beer with a person who called me a racist and insulted my mother. I dearly love my beer, but I'm particular about with whom I drink.

That's a damned good point. If someone insults me and my mother, then I'd say the first step toward our having a beer together is for him to apologize to me. And that's not going to be the only step.

132

Capitalistincharge Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:15:45pm

Nobody understands that Gates, Wright, Jackson, Sharpton, etc all follow Black Theology doctrine. It is pure racism and it was shown to us, repeatedly, during the election. When exposed, Obama tried to distance himself and threw Wright under the bus. Quit his church and joined the Church of Golf. No other doctrine fits Obama's belief system. He proved it again in his defense of Gates and his follow up non-apology. I don't understand the inability to see this situation and Obama's consistant race-baiting as an obvious clue to who this man is. This week we saw a black man scream racism against a white cop and we saw a conservative group put out a racist picture of a black man. This is a revival of racism in America and it is being directed from the top.

133

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:16:15pm

re: #126 KipAllen

Personally, I'd never sit down and drink a beer with a person who called me a racist and insulted my mother. I dearly love my beer, but I'm particular about with whom I drink.

If he does not receive two apologies within the first three minutes he should promptly get up and leave.

134

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:17:03pm

re: #130 pianobuff

If I were Crowley, I'd want a video-camera close by.

He opened his mic once the confrontation started.

/professional move

135

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:17:16pm

re: #133 Racer X

If he does not receive two apologies within the first three minutes he should promptly get up and leave.

1,000,000 updings!

136

Mich-again Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:17:23pm

I recommend a few icy mugs of Budweiser. Thats what I got on the docket anyway.

137

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:17:51pm

re: #128 Racer X

I think you're right. Crowley is no stranger to "racial profiling." He teaches the class, after all! He knows the potential pitfalls involved with an incident like this. I'm sure his behavior was above board.

138

Last Mohican Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:18:38pm

re: #134 Killian Bundy

He opened his mic once the confrontation started.

/professional move

Did he? I thought the recorded audio only contained whatever happened to be overheard while Crowley was talking. Isn't it uncool to keep your mic open all the time? Doesn't that prevent anyone else from using the frequency?

139

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:18:38pm

re: #132 Capitalistincharge

Conservatives would be smart not to follow whatever direction they imagine they're getting "from the top" to liberate their suppressed racist impulses, just because that seems to be the style of the moment.

140

Gella Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:19:05pm

and in the skype news, do u see its happening here too??
Skype singled out as threat to Russia's security
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

141

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:20:32pm

re: #112 Lincolntf

According to this NYT-owned newspaper, the Worcester Telegram and Gazette (they love Obama, as the heading will show you) as well as the Herald, Obama invited him, not the other way around. I've heard conflicting reports, but the local papers are unanimous as far as I can tell.

When he spoke yesterday, Obama said that Crowley had suggested it. Doesn't seem like he would say that if it weren't true w/ all those reporters camped on Crowley's lawn. I imagine that, given the suggestion, someone from the WH would have called Crowley and Gates on behalf of Obama to arrange a meeting.

142

tedzilla99 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:20:59pm

I love how his "experience" is going to diminish something that didn't happen. Why not have that "experience" diminish alien visitors while you're at it?

143

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:21:21pm

re: #136 Mich-again

I recommend a few icy mugs of Budweiser. Thats what I got on the docket anyway.

Obama will pour Ale Asylum's Happy Ending for the occasion.

And if that doesn't work they also brew Armageddon Amber Ale, Hop(e)alicious Pale Ale, and Sticky McDoogle.

144

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:21:28pm

re: #138 Last Mohican

Did he? I thought the recorded audio only contained whatever happened to be overheard while Crowley was talking. Isn't it uncool to keep your mic open all the time? Doesn't that prevent anyone else from using the frequency?

As a scanner owner, usually an open mic is bad form.

/nevertheless, that's what I read somewhere and there is an audio tape of the incident

145

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:21:49pm

Per 0 this meeting of the three men is a "teachable moment" regarding racial profilling. Sounds more like a "do you still beat your wife" situation to me.

146

Univac Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:21:53pm

So it sounds like "Beer" is the new diplomacy method.

Do you think inviting A'manutjob, prez of Iran, for a beer, that will make the middle east a safe place?

147

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:23:10pm

Crowley should only do it on the condition that he receives apologies (on film) from BO and Gates. BO may want to talk to everyone (including our real enemies) without preconditions, but Crowley should not.

148

Ojoe Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:23:35pm

re: #145 VegasRick

Per 0 this meeting of the three men is a "teachable moment" regarding racial profilling.

I feel like I am being talked down to as a child by Obama per that statement of his & I find it very insufferable.

149

Attaboid Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:24:22pm

I would have refused the invitation.

150

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:24:40pm

a twofer!...

Youtube Video

151

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:25:45pm

How smart is Obama, really? Do you think Bush would have commented on something like Gates-Crowley during a press conference specifically about healthcare. How's that for an out -- the conference was about healtcare and he didn't know what happened. Say something like that. Instead, brainy Obama says all this:

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?

OBAMA: Well, I should say at the outset that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts. What's been reported though is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house. There was a report called in to the police station that there might be a burglary taking place. So far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now, so...(LAUGHTER)... it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago. (LAUGHTER)

Here, I'd get shot. (LAUGHTER)

But so far, so good. They're -- they're reporting. The police are doing what they should. There's a call. They go investigate what happens.

My understanding is, at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words. But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in the society.

That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made. And yet the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, this still haunts us.

And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and often time for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause.

And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be. All right? Thank you, everybody.

152

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:26:00pm

re: #148 Ojoe

He's not a very good 'teacher'; he has a talent for statements that will turn off a large part of his audience.

153

ryannon Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:26:03pm

"I could have calibrated my words differently," the president said."

I thought he used admirable restraint.

"Racist honky pig" would have been overkill.

154

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:26:16pm

re: #149 Attaboid

I would have refused the invitation.

I find this really sad. Progress isn't made by holding grudges.

155

countrygurl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:27:13pm

This has probably already been said, but by gawd, if you see someone breaking and entering into a house, call the cops. It shouldn't matter what color they the person shoving the door is...and if I ever have to break into my house, and someone calls the cops, then GOOD on them for being a good citizen. And, I promise not to verbally abuse the cops when they get here. I will gladly show my ID and THANK them for watching out for our property.

What is the teachable moment everyone keeps talking about?
Don't arugue with the cops or
Don't argue with angry black people

156

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:27:31pm

Three minutes in to the meeting.

Crowley looks sat his watch. Stands up. Leans over and shakes Obama's hand. "Well Mr. president, thank you for your time, sir".

Obama looks stunned. "Are you leaving already"?

Crowley: "Yes sir, I am. I expected an apology. I was at work doing my job to the best of my abilities in accordance with my extensive training. I was insulted more than once during the altercation, and then many times afterward by the two of you. I feel I am owed an apology. I did not get one. I bid you both good day."

Exits.

157

J.D. Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:27:34pm

re: #148 Ojoe

I feel like I am being talked down to as a child by Obama per that statement of his & I find it very insufferable.

I feel the same way, but it won't be a total loss if Obama actually learns something from it.

158

humpty dumpty was pushed Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:28:06pm

The cop should accept the invitation and see how the visit goes. If the Prez and Gates apologize Crowley should accept. If the meeting goes badly he should start lawyering up and begin incinerating his trash, keeping his window blinds closed and prepare to be attacked mercilessly.

159

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:28:13pm

re: #154 Sharmuta

I find this really sad. Progress isn't made by holding grudges.

the ball is in BOs court, he is simply using Crowley to cover his ass...it's not progress it's theater

160

Last Mohican Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:28:37pm

re: #137 brockton808

AND Crowley has chosen to work on the police force of an extremely racially diverse city, which happens to be probably the second most extreme left wing municipality in the US, after Berkeley. AND he has been on that city's police force for at least 16 years, and had ample experience working with its inhabitants. AND after all that, he was hand-picked by a black supervisor to teach a class about racial profiling. AND the incident happened during the middle of the day, when Crowley was not likely to be overtired. AND Crowley hadn't been physically attacked by Gates, or anyone else, and therefore was not likely to be in a less-than-composed state.

Meanwhile, Gates he had just flown back from China, which must have meant at least 20 or so hours of nonstop traveling, AND he must have been extremely tired because of jet lag. AND after all that traveling, he wasn't even able to get into his house, because he found that the door was stuck, because someone had broken into his house while he was gone. Can you imagine being in that situation? Personally, I probably would have screamed at my neighbor, the neighbors, the mailman, the dog, and anyone else who had the misfortune to appear in front of me at that moment. And Gates's particular schtick happens to be that he is internationally famous, having built a career out of constantly writing and lecturing about how the black man is constantly getting shafted.

161

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:28:53pm

re: #152 jaunte

He's not a very good 'teacher'; he has a talent for statements that will turn off a large part of his audience.

Then again, Obama turns off a large part of his audience just by breathing and standing upright. :)

162

horse Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:29:05pm

re: #9 Dr. Shalit

It Does -

So Long As it is - "Brewed in Boston" - by the Samuel Adams Folk - Best Beer in the World.

-S-

Or perhaps it will be a Samuel Jackson (chappelle skit - warning adult language) A little drunken male bonding should smooth things over nicely.

163

snowcrash Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:29:07pm

Crowley could go, bring some wicked good Sam Adams, do the photo op and prove to Gates that he was the problem with his stereotype of white cops. Makes the force look good and Crowley seem the better man for helping race relations. Crowley already has much public sympathy.

164

MJ Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:29:28pm

Gates will probably cry racism because the head on the beer is white.

165

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:29:30pm

re: #151 HelloDare

And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be

There's the real irony; Crowley is one of the people working to improve policing techniques. Maybe we should be teaching all citizens that it doesn't matter how important you think you are, if you lose your cool and behave like an asshole to a police officer, there will be consequences.

166

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:29:46pm

Just don't understand racism. It's outside my comprehension zone, I guess. We were taught--by my father--that people were either people or assholes,they got there on their own. Race,religion, etc. didn't enter into it. Maybe that's an oversimplification for some, but it sure works for me.

167

Attaboid Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:30:07pm

re: #154 Sharmuta

What progress are you talking about? Is there an apology being offered?

168

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:30:18pm

re: #147 brockton808

Crowley should only do it on the condition that he receives apologies (on film) from BO and Gates. BO may want to talk to everyone (including our real enemies) without preconditions, but Crowley should not.

I am going to fucking scream if it ends like "Mr. Crowley now understands the dangers of racial profilling" or some such shit. It will happen. This country is being stupified by these race mongers. I got jumped on earlier for making a joke using the "N" word (not spelled out) but I can turn my radio dial a few numbers and hear it being used (oh, by African - Americans though) over and over again and no problem.

169

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:30:35pm

re: #154 Sharmuta

Exactly. Why, then, with all the advances people of color have made in the recent past, would Gates hold a grudge against white people?

170

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:30:38pm

re: #159 albusteve

the ball is in BOs court, he is simply using Crowley to cover his ass...it's not progress it's theater

Perhaps - but shouldn't we at least try to put the race baiters on all sides of the race issue out of business?

It's like people want this to continue. I don't. I want to see MLK's dream come true. Telling the President "no, I won't come" isn't going to help anything.

171

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:30:58pm

re: #161 ShanghaiEd

Then again, Obama turns off a large part of his audience just by breathing and standing upright. :)

I for one applaud his ability to stand upright and breathe.

172

countrygurl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:31:10pm

re: #150 albusteve

That is hysterical!

173

Gella Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:31:18pm

re: #156 Racer X

i can see it on SNL

174

krypto Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:33:24pm

Not sure if this report is accurate, but I heard that the 911 call reported that there were "two black guys with backpacks" one of whom was trying to push in the door.

It sounds to me like the neighbor was either just giving a description of the suspects, or else was profiling against people with backpacks.

175

lobo91 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:33:25pm

re: #144 Killian Bundy

As a scanner owner, usually an open mic is bad form.

/nevertheless, that's what I read somewhere and there is an audio tape of the incident

Most of the cops I know carry small digital recorders for this very purpose.

176

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:33:28pm

re: #154 Sharmuta

I find this really sad. Progress isn't made by ~~holding grudges.~~ passing up free beer.

177

countrygurl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:33:33pm

re: #165 jaunte

There's the real irony; Crowley is one of the people working to improve policing techniques. Maybe we should be teaching all citizens that it doesn't matter how important you think you are, if you lose your cool and behave like an asshole to a police officer, there will be consequences.

That's a pretty simple lesson. I like it. Too bad Obama couldn't have said something like that.

178

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:33:38pm

re: #169 brockton808

Exactly. Why, then, with all the advances people of color have made in the recent past, would Gates hold a grudge against white people?

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, so you will have to ask Gates what his issues are. I do know that there are still plenty of bigots in the world and this might contribute to the impression that bigotry is still an issue.

179

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:33:58pm

re: #171 jaunte

Standing upright is a learned behavior, breathing is involuntary.

One out of two isn't bad.

180

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:34:14pm

re: #165 jaunte

If Crowley had anything on this record, you'd think it would have surfaced by now. Nobody's come out saying Crowley treated them badly. Doesn't every policeman have some complaints against him. You're on the force 16 years, some irate s.o.b. must have filed something. But nothing so far. I'm surprised.

181

pat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:34:40pm

I will wager the question was pre-arranged. Obama thought he was going for the fence and instead clipped the ball into the catcher's mitt. It has every ear mark of staging. An old friend, race, grievance politics, etc. Likely padding for another Obama legislative or PR bombshell that is yet to be launched.

182

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:34:44pm

re: #174 krypto

Not sure if this report is accurate, but I heard that the 911 call reported that there were "two black guys with backpacks" one of whom was trying to push in the door.

It sounds to me like the neighbor was either just giving a description of the suspects, or else was profiling against people with backpacks.

I think the caller may have mistaken luggage (Mr. Gates was coming back from a trip IIRC) for backpacks.

183

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:34:58pm

re: #173 Gella

i can see it on SNL

Wonder what skit they will do tonight on it. I'm sure it will be nothing like Richard Prior and Chevy Chase and the "dead honkey" skit.

184

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:35:37pm

here she is...Miss Budweiser

Image: 915_miss_bud.gif

185

Ojoe Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:35:55pm

re: #155 countrygurl

The teachable thing, is that all should be courteous and show impeccable manners.

I do believe there even was a black leader in the early years of the 20th century who advocated gentlemanly behavior, I don't remember who it was, but the advice is universal & ought to be followed by all.

186

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:35:59pm

re: #180 HelloDare

If Crowley had anything on this record, you'd think it would have surfaced by now. Nobody's come out saying Crowley treated them badly. Doesn't every policeman have some complaints against him. You're on the force 16 years, some irate s.o.b. must have filed something. But nothing so far. I'm surprised.

You can be sure that all stops have been pulled to find a Furmanizing skeleton.

187

J.D. Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:36:07pm

re: #181 pat

I will wager the question was pre-arranged. Obama thought he was going for the fence and instead clipped the ball into the catcher's mitt. It has every ear mark of staging. An old friend, race, grievance politics, etc. Likely padding for another Obama legislative or PR bombshell that is yet to be launched.

Right in the middle of "health care" or "health insurance" reform or whatever they call it now?
Never even occurred to me.

188

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:36:24pm

Mounting pressure to get to the bottom of the controversial arrest of black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. is centering on recorded police tapes that may offer a dose of reality amid all the media and political noise.

Cambridge police brass and lawyers are weighing making the tapes public, which could include the 911 call reporting a break-in at Gates’ home and radio transmissions by the cop who busted him July 16 for disorderly conduct.

“It’s powerful evidence because the (people involved) have not had a chance to reflect and you are getting their state of mind captured on tape,” said former prosecutor and New York City police officer Eugene O’Donnell, who is now a lecturer at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in Manhattan.

/okay, so it's Greta

189

pink freud Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:36:36pm

re: #161 ShanghaiEd

Then again, Obama turns off a large part of his audience just by breathing and standing upright. :)

A testament to his failure as a leader and a uniter.

190

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:37:14pm

re: #178 Sharmuta

But your initial, gut reaction is that us typical white guys are the ones holding the grudges. I agree with you that Gates's actions here indeed give the impression that bigotry is an issue -- within the Black community!

191

ryannon Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:37:50pm

re: #170 Sharmuta

Perhaps - but shouldn't we at least try to put the race baiters on all sides of the race issue out of business?

It's like people want this to continue. I don't. I want to see MLK's dream come true. Telling the President "no, I won't come" isn't going to help anything.

I'd like to see MLK's dream come true as well. Always have, and did some pretty scary jail-time back in the day for it.

But I'm not sure that MLK's idea included something like what's being proposed.

He had principles, and stuck to them.

192

lobo91 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:38:16pm

re: #163 snowcrash

Crowley could go, bring some wicked good Sam Adams, do the photo op and prove to Gates that he was the problem with his stereotype of white cops. Makes the force look good and Crowley seem the better man for helping race relations. Crowley already has much public sympathy.

This would be my personal choice, but I suppose the name would be unfortunate, under the circumstances...

193

pat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:38:38pm

Only the St. Paulie girl could make me sit for a beer with 2 race baiters. (well since The Prof doesn't drink beer, a couple beers and a Chardonnay)
Image: IrinaVoronina.jpg

194

countrygurl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:39:16pm

re: #127 Killian Bundy

Crowley should demand a lifetime supply of beer for this.
/the treatment he's received is nothing short of outrageous

I agree...can you imagine, you're at work, doing your thing, and the next thing you know you're being critized on tv by the frkn POTUS! WOW.

195

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:39:22pm

re: #184 albusteve

here she is...Miss Budweiser

[Link: www.russwicks.com...]

Here she is - with two friends.

196

J.D. Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:40:36pm

re: #195 Racer X

Here she is - with two friends.

Do you think they're genuine? Like Budweiser?

197

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:40:47pm

A reconciliation could have been so much more painless and smooth had Obama just issued an apology out of the gate instead of "regretting that others are obsessed". Why didn't he just do that at the outset?

Now Obama just looks like a silly-boy preening for a photo-op headlined "O the Great Uniter".

198

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:41:04pm

re: #183 Racer X

Wonder what skit they will do tonight on it. I'm sure it will be nothing like Richard Prior and Chevy Chase and the "dead honkey" skit.

It's summer. It'll be a rerun.

199

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:41:15pm

re: #170 Sharmuta

Perhaps - but shouldn't we at least try to put the race baiters on all sides of the race issue out of business?
It's like people want this to continue. I don't. I want to see MLK's dream come true. Telling the President "no, I won't come" isn't going to help anything.

yes, by pointing the finger of blame right where it's deserved...at Gates and BO...and maybe, with luck, Sharpton would drag himself into it...it's not pretty...maybe Crowley should set up the rules then...get the MSM involved and force this thing into the open...having a beer on the back porch serves no one but BO, the main culprit here...leave it alone to run it's coarse or blow it wide open...I'm tired of pointless half measures

200

BIGDUKE 6 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:41:28pm

re: #20 Dr. Shalit

BEER - 12 Bucks
Plane trips X2 to D.C. - 75K
Crowley saying "hell No ! I'm no apologizing !" - Priceless

201

Dar ul Harb Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:41:43pm

re: #195 Racer X

Looks Photoshopped to me.

/ :D

202

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:42:55pm

re: #190 brockton808

But your initial, gut reaction is that us typical white guys are the ones holding the grudges. I agree with you that Gates's actions here indeed give the impression that bigotry is an issue -- within the Black community!

No- I didn't say that at all. And feminists are the real sexists. Please.

This is exactly the type of shit that the race baiters want- we all get to think of everyone else as the bigot and we're the victim. This isn't intellectually honest. And it serves to keep us divided. I won't play into the hands of these people.

203

ted Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:42:58pm

BO calls this a "teachable moment".

For whom?

That one should not bring ones mother into the conflict no matter what. What if Officer Crowley's mother is dead or ill?

Shame on you Mr. Gates & Mr. Obama

204

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:43:05pm

Crowley shouldn't go because

(1) Gates is going to lecture about "racial profiling" and
(2) BO hasn't apologized speaking stupidly

If Crowley goes, the phrase will be "set him up" rather than "set them up".

BO is a real grandee about apologizing to world for the United States. However, he is so arrogant that he can't bring himself to apologize for himself. Yuck. He's really showing who he is.

205

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:43:06pm

re: #168 VegasRick

See it's OK for blacks to use the N word, but no one else. That is TOTAL Bullshit!

206

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:43:32pm

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you and what does it say about race relations in America?

OBAMA: Well, I should say at the outset that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts. What's been reported though is that the guy forgot his keys, jimmied his way to get into the house. There was a report called in to the police station that there might be a burglary taking place. So far, so good, right? I mean, if I was trying to jigger into -- well, I guess this is my house now, so...(LAUGHTER)... it probably wouldn't happen. But let's say my old house in Chicago. (LAUGHTER)

~~Here, I'd get shot. (LAUGHTER)~~

~~But so far, so good. They're -- they're reporting. The police are doing what they should. There's a call. They go investigate what happens.~~

My understanding is, at that point, Professor Gates is already in his house. The police officer comes in. I'm sure there's some exchange of words. But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped.

Now, I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. That's just a fact.

As you know, Lynn, when I was in the state legislature in Illinois, we worked on a racial profiling bill because there was indisputable evidence that blacks and Hispanics were being stopped disproportionately. And that is a sign, an example of how, you know, race remains a factor in the society.

That doesn't lessen the incredible progress that has been made. I am standing here as testimony to the progress that's been made. And yet the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, this still haunts us.

~~And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently and often time for no cause casts suspicion even when there is good cause.~~

~~And that's why I think the more that we're working with local law enforcement to improve policing techniques so that we're eliminating potential bias, the safer everybody is going to be.~~ I don't know what happened so I have no comment. Thank you, everybody.

207

Dar ul Harb Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:44:50pm

Probably not.

208

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:45:48pm

re: #193 pat

Only the St. Paulie girl could make me sit for a beer with 2 race baiters. (well since The Prof doesn't drink beer, a couple beers and a Chardonnay)
[Link: onebeer.net...]

That St. Paulie Girl must have...54 Double Ds!

209

wrenchwench Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:46:19pm

re: #206 HelloDare

I don't know what happened so I have no comment. Thank you, everybody.

He doesn't get the laughter in that version, so it's a non-starter.

210

BIGDUKE 6 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:47:49pm

re: #160 Last Mohican

Still no excuse for poor behavior.

211

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:47:50pm

re: #204 huckfunn

From what i can tell Crowley is a classy guy and not a frothing partisan hack. He'll go, he'll be polite and he'll drink his beer. He'll go home and get back to doing his job. The fantasies about him trying to exploit this to make a grand social/political point probably isn't going to happen. If that's what you want then try to get Joe the Plumber invited to a White House beer.

212

Bloodnok Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:48:23pm

re: #205 Macker

See it's OK for blacks to use the N word, but no one else. That is TOTAL Bullshit!

Why would you want to? Really.

213

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:48:29pm

the problem with race in this country is inspired by Sharpton, Wright, Obama etc...they have made a business out of it and I see no reason for Crowley to stoop and play that game...if BO cannot cut bait with an honest apology that's his problem and he's shoving it off on all Black people in this country...to me that's racism...they eat each other for fame and wealth and I find it sickening

214

Capitalistincharge Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:49:04pm

re: #139 jaunte

As liberals shouldn't either. The point I'm making is that we are seeing a revival of racism and it is on a different level now.

215

Ojoe Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:49:24pm

re: #206 HelloDare

I hope your post makes the top 10.

216

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:49:31pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

From what i can tell Crowley is a classy guy and not a frothing partisan hack. He'll go, he'll be polite and he'll drink his beer. He'll go home and get back to doing his job. The fantasies about him trying to exploit this to make a grand social/political point probably isn't going to happen. If that's what you want then try to get Joe the Plumber invited to a White House beer.

Why? He already had Obama lackeys turn his files inside out.

217

ted Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:49:54pm

How would MLK have handled it?

Read It all:

"Letter from a Birmingham Jail"

16 April 1963

My Dear Fellow Clergymen:

While confined here in the Birmingham city jail, I came across your recent statement calling my present activities "unwise and untimely." Seldom do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would have little time for anything other than such correspondence in the course of the day, and I would have no time for constructive work. But since I feel that you are men of genuine good will and that your criticisms are sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.

I think I should indicate why I am here in Birmingham, since you have been influenced by the view which argues against "outsiders coming in." I have the honor of serving as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization operating in every southern state, with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. We have some eighty five affiliated organizations across the South, and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources with our affiliates. Several months ago the affiliate here in Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in a nonviolent direct action program if such were deemed necessary. We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise. So I, along with several members of my staff, am here because I was invited here. I am here because I have organizational ties here.

But more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. Just as the prophets of the eighth century B.C. left their villages and carried their "thus saith the Lord" far beyond the boundaries of their home towns, and just as the Apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the Greco Roman world, so am I compelled to carry the gospel of freedom beyond my own home town. Like Paul, I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.

Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.

You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city's white power structure left the Negro community with no alternative.

In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self purification; and direct action. We have gone through all these steps in Birmingham. There can be no gainsaying the fact that racial injustice engulfs this community. Birmingham is probably the most thoroughly segregated city in the United States. Its ugly record of brutality is widely known. Negroes have experienced grossly unjust treatment in the courts. There have been more unsolved bombings of Negro homes and churches in Birmingham than in any other city in the nation...

[Link: www.africa.upenn.edu...]

218

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:50:03pm

re: #213 albusteve

What about people like David McKalip? Don Black? They're not inspiring racism?

219

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:50:07pm

re: #113 Gretchen

Suppose Crowley left without getting ID from Gates

Gates gave him the ID.

That is not the issue. It is Gates (the asshole) acting like an asshole AFTER his identity had been confirmed, and Crowley (the officer) was leaving.

Now suppose the officer ignored the asshole, and just got in his car and drove off. Do you think the asshole was a threat to the peace, and would have harmed himself or others, once the police left?

I don't think so. I think if he had, we would not have ever known anything about what happened that night.

220

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:50:14pm

Hey, I just heard that Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder are going to be at the White House get-together to provide some entertainment.

Youtube Video

221

Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:50:21pm

re: #216 OldLineTexan

Because he seems like a professional. He seems more interested in doing his job.

222

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:50:40pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

From what i can tell Crowley is a classy guy and not a frothing partisan hack. He'll go, he'll be polite and he'll drink his beer. He'll go home and get back to doing his job. The fantasies about him trying to exploit this to make a grand social/political point probably isn't going to happen. If that's what you want then try to get Joe the Plumber invited to a White House beer.

You know, there's a good chance you have this right. The only thing I could see getting in the way is if Gates continues to make public noise or if the PD requests that he refrain for legal/etc reasons.

223

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:51:03pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

From what i can tell Crowley is a classy guy and not a frothing partisan hack. He'll go, he'll be polite and he'll drink his beer. He'll go home and get back to doing his job. The fantasies about him trying to exploit this to make a grand social/political point probably isn't going to happen. If that's what you want then try to get Joe the Plumber invited to a White House beer.

/Crowley's not the one trying to do damage control and score political points, TOTUS is

224

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:51:09pm

re: #205 Macker

See it's OK for blacks to use the N word, but no one else. That is TOTAL Bullshit!

If all my Italian friends and I walked around calling each other the "G" word (equivalent of the "N" word to blacks) I would not be very surprised to have a non-Italian call me that. I need a fucking rule book.

225

Lincolntf Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:51:20pm

re: #221 Killgore Trout

If only the same could be said of our President.

226

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:51:22pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

From what i can tell Crowley is a classy guy and not a frothing partisan hack. He'll go, he'll be polite and he'll drink his beer. He'll go home and get back to doing his job. The fantasies about him trying to exploit this to make a grand social/political point probably isn't going to happen. If that's what you want then try to get Joe the Plumber invited to a White House beer.

I think you're right on the money. I just hate to see Crowley hand a victory to the race baiters; particularly when BO is so uncomfy about the whole victory concept.

227

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:53:02pm

re: #221 Killgore Trout

Because he seems like a professional. He seems more interested in doing his job.

Sorry to have been unclear. Remark was vis-a-vis "getting Joe the Plumber" invited along. Unclear as to why the two are connected in any way ... Joe had his lumps from underhanded illegal practices already.

228

wrenchwench Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:53:22pm

re: #224 VegasRick

I need a fucking rule book.

Rule #1: Use good manners, no matter what everybody else is doing.

229

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:53:29pm

re: #226 huckfunn

I think you're right on the money. I just hate to see Crowley hand a victory to the race baiters; particularly when BO is so uncomfy about the whole victory concept.

I guess the downside is if Obama spins after the beer that he and Gates were successful in "teaching" Crowley or something to that effect. That would wind my stem.

230

countrygurl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:53:34pm

re: #206 HelloDare
> I don't know what happened so I have no comment. Thank you, everybody.

YES!!! TEACHABLE MOMENT.

231

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:53:45pm

re: #218 Sharmuta

What about people like David McKalip? Don Black? They're not inspiring racism?

who are they?...Presidents, Representatives?, high profile shakedown artists?...sorry to sound flippant but you don't have to google Cynthia McKinney to know who she is

232

haakondahl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:53:54pm

re: #224 VegasRick

If all my Italian friends and I walked around calling each other the "G" word (equivalent of the "N" word to blacks) I would not be very surprised to have a non-Italian call me that. I need a fucking rule book.

Hold yourself to your own standards. Simple. Not easy, necessarily, but simple.

233

J.D. Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:54:11pm

re: #217 ted

Good one.

234

haakondahl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:54:25pm

And now, for something I never do...

235

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:54:31pm

Crowley hasn't shot off his mouth about anything.

/'nuff said

236

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:55:15pm

re: #229 pianobuff

I guess the downside is if Obama spins after the beer that he and Gates were successful in "teaching" Crowley or something to that effect. That would wind my stem.

My point exactly. And BO won't feel the need to apologize.

237

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:55:35pm

re: #235 Killian Bundy

Crowley hasn't shot off his mouth about anything.

/'nuff said

About all he has said is that he handled things by the book and that he is not a racist. I don't believe he has attacked Gates in the media the same way he has been attacked by Gates subsequently.

238

ted Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:55:37pm

UPDATE:

"With one or two exceptions, the responses to this post have been strikingly respectful. I thought this e-mail was interesting:

I am a bail bondsman in Florida. ROWOV (resisting officer without violence can be charged anytime a person does not follow an officer’s directive. If you are told to “stand over there” and do not, you are subject to arrest.

It is a misdemeanor in Florida and a $250 bond. These types are charges are dropped later in most cases.

It does, however, allow the defendant the opportunity to reflect on the error of his ways as he is cuffed, transported to jail, processed in, and bailed out.

Here in sunny Florida, the person will have six to eight hours to reflect.

You should also know that many ROWV (resisting officer violence) charges are not prosecuted.

Only in cases where the officer is injured, or the defendant has other charges will the charge not be dropped at some point."

Case closed.

[Link: campaignspot.nationalreview.com...]

239

BIGDUKE 6 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:56:02pm

re: #131 Last Mohican

That's a damned good point. If someone insults me and my mother, then I'd say the first step toward our having a beer together is for him to apologize to me. And that's not going to be the only step.

Sgt Crowley should never apologize ; He was doing his job BY THE BOOK . With that said , IF Gates were to start off with a genuine apology ( pigs , I think, will fly first) then Perhaps, maybe , Sgt Crowley should accept.

240

capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:56:35pm

re: #205 Macker

See it's OK for blacks to use the N word, but no one else. That is TOTAL Bullshit!

Do you want to? I sure as hell don't. I see the double-standard, but I hate that word, and it doesn't cross my lips, ever. I'd hate it whether anyone else said it or not.

241

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:56:41pm

re: #229 pianobuff

I guess the downside is if Obama spins after the beer that he and Gates were successful in "teaching" Crowley or something to that effect. That would wind my stem.

Bet on it! This meeting is NOT a good idea for Crowley!

242

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:57:03pm

re: #235 Killian Bundy

Crowley hasn't shot off his mouth about anything.

/'nuff said

And he won't. Totally class act. He is what an American cop should be.

243

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:57:16pm

re: #226 huckfunn

I think you're right on the money. I just hate to see Crowley hand a victory to the race baiters; particularly when BO is so uncomfy about the whole victory concept.

There is plenty of race baiting all around, and telling the President "no" would also be feeding race baiters. I think it's best if we try to be adults and sit and discuss our problems, regardless of who thinks what about the motivations of others.

244

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:57:36pm

I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University. - William F. Buckley, Jr.

245

Truck Monkey Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:58:08pm

re: #193 pat

Only the St. Paulie girl could make me sit for a beer with 2 race baiters. (well since The Prof doesn't drink beer, a couple beers and a Chardonnay)
[Link: onebeer.net...]

She is rather stout.

246

pat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:59:14pm

re: #208 Macker

She is actually a famous Russian model,Irina Voronina. But she inded was the St Paulie girl. All the St Paulie girls are pretty.

247

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:59:15pm

re: #245 Truck Monkey

She is rather stout.

I'd porter.

248

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:59:27pm

re: #236 huckfunn

My point exactly. And BO won't feel the need to apologize.

I honestly believe that he believes he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

In fact he has stated that he regrets the obsession first and foremost. His non-apology basically says something like "It's a shame that you guys are so stupid as to not understand my clear points and if a different word or two would have prevented you idiots from irrationally hyperventilating maybe I could have used those words instead."

249

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:59:36pm

re: #239 BIGDUKE 6

Sgt Crowley should never apologize ; He was doing his job BY THE BOOK .

Has Gates or the President suggested what changes should be made to the 'book'? I know Gates has stated that "My entire academic career had been based on improving race relations, not exacerbating them. I am hopeful that my experience will lead to greater sensitivity to issues of racial profiling in the criminal justice system," but has anything practical been proposed as far as new policies?

250

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:59:56pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

There is plenty of race baiting all around, and telling the President "no" would also be feeding race baiters. I think it's best if we try to be adults and sit and discuss our problems, regardless of who thinks what about the motivations of others.

fine...BO should make an unambiguous apology, in English, before the prime time MSN to get the ball rolling...it needs to start at the beginning

251

ted Sat, Jul 25, 2009 4:59:58pm

re: #247 OldLineTexan

I'd porter.

/

Me Tubok.

252

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:00:25pm

Do believe it's time to open the first icy cold Killian's Red and ponder the advantages of screw-caps versus pop caps on beer bottles.
All while reading the rest of this thread.

253

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:01:47pm

Here's a story about a man who was imprisoned for eleven years based on eyewitness testimony. He forgave the woman who testified against him and works with her to tell the story of what happened to prosecutors and others. If he can forgive, I think Officer Crowley can overcome the insult he says he has suffered.

If you didn't see this story on 60 Minutes, by the way, you might want to check it out. It's a really fascinating story of how problematic eyewitness testimony can be. The link above is to a text version of the story, but the links to the videos are at the bottom of the page.

254

haakondahl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:01:55pm

re: #247 OldLineTexan

I'd porter.

/

I'd lager.

255

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:02:36pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

There is plenty of race baiting all around, and telling the President "no" would also be feeding race baiters. I think it's best if we try to be adults and sit and discuss our problems, regardless of who thinks what about the motivations of others.

I simply didn't see any race baiting coming from the cops while it was very obvious that Gates and BO were playing the race card. Being adults is a 2 way street. The adult-in-chief needs to apologize before Crowley shares a beer with him and Gates.

256

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:02:41pm

re: #238 ted

I heard the same thing from two cops who called in on a radio talk show. The said the charges are dropped after the person has calmed down and had time to reflect on what happened.

So all this talk that the charges being dropped proves that Gates should not have been arrested is bogus.

257

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:02:42pm

re: #212 Bloodnok

Why would you want to? Really.

I don't. Blacks shouldn't be using that word either.

258

Truck Monkey Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:03:23pm

re: #247 OldLineTexan

I'd porter.

/

She is full bodied.

259

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:03:49pm

re: #253 JustMyView

Here's a story about a man who was imprisoned for eleven years based on eyewitness testimony. He forgave the woman who testified against him and works with her to tell the story of what happened to prosecutors and others. If he can forgive, I think Officer Crowley can overcome the insult he says he has suffered.

If you didn't see this story on 60 Minutes, by the way, you might want to check it out. It's a really fascinating story of how problematic eyewitness testimony can be. The link above is to a text version of the story, but the links to the videos are at the bottom of the page.

Goalposts . . . over there -->

/what on earth does that have to do with the time of day?

260

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:04:08pm

re: #243 Sharmuta

Sounds great. Let's make sure they broadcast it on CNN or MSNBC. That way we can all wallow in self-loathing in an attempt to repent for our racist ways. After all, we've all been Carefully Taught how racist we are.

"Discussions on race" only validate the race baiters' views and perpetuate their prejudice.

261

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:04:08pm

re: #240 capitalist piglet

See Comment #257.

262

pat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:04:15pm

Maybe instead of a beer or 2 they could have a dozen. Then like Clinton used to do, sneak off and make mischief. That would do much for race relations.

263

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:04:35pm

re: #245 Truck Monkey

re: #247 OldLineTexan

re: #251 ted

re: #254 haakondahl

You guys are tryin to brew up another pun thread, aren't ya?

264

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:05:13pm

re: #263 irongrampa

re: #247 OldLineTexan

re: #251 ted

re: #254 haakondahl

You guys are tryin to brew up another pun thread, aren't ya?

Foaming at the mouth.

265

Nemesis6 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:05:56pm

The purpose of this sham is to make the police seem like your friends. They're not. A Harvard professor should know better than to associate himself with the police in this kind of way.

266

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:10pm

re: #248 pianobuff

I honestly believe that he believes he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

In fact he has stated that he regrets the obsession first and foremost. His non-apology basically says something like "It's a shame that you guys are so stupid as to not understand my clear points and if a different word or two would have prevented you idiots from irrationally hyperventilating maybe I could have used those words instead."

BO proclaimed to be stunned at what a big flapadoodle this has turned into. I wonder if he'll be as stunned when he discovers that Hirohito didn't surrender to MacArthur or Grant.

267

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:12pm

re: #253 JustMyView

Here's a story about a man who was imprisoned for eleven years based on eyewitness testimony. He forgave the woman who testified against him and works with her to tell the story of what happened to prosecutors and others. If he can forgive, I think Officer Crowley can overcome the insult he says he has suffered.

If you didn't see this story on 60 Minutes, by the way, you might want to check it out. It's a really fascinating story of how problematic eyewitness testimony can be. The link above is to a text version of the story, but the links to the videos are at the bottom of the page.

I'm sure he can too. And let me show you how it works...

Gates: Hey Crowley, I'm sorry about my comments. I know you're not a racist. I was just having a bad day and hey, my temper got the best of me for a moment.

Crowley: Not a problem, professor. I forgive you. Everyone has their moments.

Obama: And Crowley, I'm sorry too. I know Skip and, hey, sometimes it's easy to jump to conclusions without all the facts. That's what I did this time and I apologize.

Crowley: It's an honor to meet you, Mr. President and I accept your apology. Now about that beer you were offering...?

268

swamprat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:12pm

re: #264 Racer X

Trying to ferment a pun.

269

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:24pm

What exactly does Mr. Gates think Sgt. Crowley should have done differently?

Honest question - if anyone cares to throw out a guess.

270

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:44pm

re: #265 Nemesis6

Forget a sarc tag?

271

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:51pm

re: #259 Killian Bundy

Goalposts . . . over there -->

/what on earth does that have to do with the time of day?

The money phrase is "the insult he says he suffered".

I.e., it's no insult at all to be insulted, labeled, derided, and slandered by the POTUS and this Professor.

272

capitalist piglet Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:06:55pm

re: #261 Macker

See Comment #257.

Just did. I didn't think you wanted to...that really was a rhetorical question. I just figure the only speech you can control is your own, and at some point, you have to just quit worrying about what other people are doing. But as I said, I see the double-standard.

273

ryannon Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:07:04pm

re: #249 jaunte

Has Gates or the President suggested what changes should be made to the 'book'? I know Gates has stated that "My entire academic career had been based on improving race relations, not exacerbating them. I am hopeful that my experience will lead to greater sensitivity to issues of racial profiling in the criminal justice system," but has anything practical been proposed as far as new policies?

"Don't ask, don't tell"?

274

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:07:20pm

re: #264 Racer X

Foaming at the mouth.

I'm frothing at the bit.

275

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:07:28pm

re: #250 albusteve

fine...BO should make an unambiguous apology, in English, before the prime time MSN to get the ball rolling...it needs to start at the beginning

I most certainly think the President should apologize. And Gates too, but saying "no" would mean the opportunity is lost.

276

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:07:37pm

re: #253 JustMyView

I don't think the eyewitness report in the Gates case was the problematic part. Two men actually were trying to force entry. The fact that the witness didn't recognize Gates was an issue, but not unjust.

277

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:07:42pm

you want a sit down about race?...then invite everybody...make sure that along with Sharpton/Jackson/Wright...you invite Morgan Freeman and Condi Rice and Bill Cosby...duke it out on national TV

278

Wendya Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:07:57pm

re: #197 pianobuff

A reconciliation could have been so much more painless and smooth had Obama just issued an apology out of the gate instead of "regretting that others are obsessed". Why didn't he just do that at the outset?

Because his mind, he's not wrong. He didn't even apologize for this incident, instead blaming "the little people" for taking his words literally.

Crowley's mistake was in even suggesting the "beer in the WH". I imagine he thought they'd never accept but now Obama and Gates have him strung up like a piñata.

279

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:08:00pm

Forget the beer at the white house with the President, Gates and Crowley. I want to be the fly on the wall when Gates and Crowley have a beer at a Cambridge bar -- not that that will ever happen. But that would be a whole different atmosphere.

280

brockton808 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:08:26pm

re: #277 albusteve

Don't forget the distinguished Thomas Sowell.

281

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:08:31pm

re: #269 Racer X

What exactly does Mr. Gates think Sgt. Crowley should have done differently?

Honest question - if anyone cares to throw out a guess.

Why would you assume Gates was not using the event to bolster his race cred?

282

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:09:08pm

re: #255 huckfunn

I simply didn't see any race baiting coming from the cops while it was very obvious that Gates and BO were playing the race card. Being adults is a 2 way street. The adult-in-chief needs to apologize before Crowley shares a beer with him and Gates.

Wow. I'm not arguing that Crowley doesn't deserve an apology simply by saying he should go have a beer. Additionally- I didn't say it was the police officers being the race baiters.

However, the real race baiters surely would like to see tensions remain high instead of a resolution to this issue. Based on nothing more than that- I vote for a resolution.

283

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:10:02pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

Based on nothing more than that- I vote for a resolution.

I resolve to have another beer.

284

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:10:43pm

re: #281 Buck

Why would you assume Gates was not using the event to bolster his race cred?

I have not assumed that.

I am wondering what he wanted the police officer to do differently.

285

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:10:51pm

re: #283 OldLineTexan

I resolve to have another beer.

/

Barkeep, make that 2 beers.

286

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:11:04pm

re: #253 JustMyView

Here's a story about a man who was imprisoned for eleven years based on eyewitness testimony. He forgave the woman who testified against him and works with her to tell the story of what happened to prosecutors and others. If he can forgive, I think Officer Crowley can overcome the insult he says he has suffered.

If you didn't see this story on 60 Minutes, by the way, you might want to check it out. It's a really fascinating story of how problematic eyewitness testimony can be. The link above is to a text version of the story, but the links to the videos are at the bottom of the page.

And Gates could also overcome the insult he claims to have suffered.
Why is this all on Crowley's shoulders?

287

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:11:37pm

re: #284 Racer X

I am wondering what he wanted the police officer to do differently.

Me too; not just in his own specific incident, but as a matter of policy.

288

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:11:53pm

Freedom = Slavery
War = Peace

289

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:12:14pm

re: #283 OldLineTexan

I resolve to have another beer.

/

There are perks to sitting down, eh?

290

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:12:16pm

re: #256 HelloDare

I heard the same thing from two cops who called in on a radio talk show. The said the charges are dropped after the person has calmed down and had time to reflect on what happened.

So all this talk that the charges being dropped proves that Gates should not have been arrested is bogus.

It's kind of fascinating that conservatives who are generally concerned about excessive power of the state find it to be OK for the police to arrest people for, essentially, the crime of annoying them. Is giving people time to reflect really something we want the police to do?

291

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:12:24pm

re: #275 Sharmuta

I most certainly think the President should apologize. And Gates too, but saying "no" would mean the opportunity is lost.

I understand you...but Crowley is a small player in a local situation that is being dragged upward...Gates and Obama stepped in the shit and Crowley has no responsibility to help rescue them...I wouldn't, even for free beer...what an insult to MY principles...if Crowley feels differently that's his business

292

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:12:28pm

re: #253 JustMyView

Here's a story about a man who was imprisoned for eleven years based on eyewitness testimony. He forgave the woman who testified against him and works with her to tell the story of what happened to prosecutors and others. If he can forgive, I think Officer Crowley can overcome the insult he says he has suffered.

If you didn't see this story on 60 Minutes, by the way, you might want to check it out. It's a really fascinating story of how problematic eyewitness testimony can be. The link above is to a text version of the story, but the links to the videos are at the bottom of the page.

How many people who were at the scene are backing Gates story. Not just the cops neighbors and bystanders?

You notice also, the President dialed back his rhetoric after, news of the recording came out.

Crowley, according to the reports is the one who switched to open mic to record the incident, you'll note he's not changing his story. He knows exactly what's on the recording because he was there. He's either right or a complete idiot to persist if the tapes will confirm Gates' version.

293

formercorpsman Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:12:55pm

re: #277 albusteve

I would pay to see that. Actually a pretty good suggestion.

294

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:12:55pm

re: #280 brockton808

Don't forget the distinguished Thomas Sowell.

right...I'm just prattling

295

OldLineTexan Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:13:10pm

re: #289 Sharmuta

There are perks to sitting down, eh?

I was not invited.

However, have you seen me advocate otherwise here?

296

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:14:23pm

re: #290 JustMyView

What should Sgt. Crowley have done differently?

297

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:14:47pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

Wow. I'm not arguing that Crowley doesn't deserve an apology simply by saying he should go have a beer. Additionally- I didn't say it was the police officers being the race baiters.

However, the real race baiters surely would like to see tensions remain high instead of a resolution to this issue. Based on nothing more than that- I vote for a resolution.

I hear what your saying and agree with you on everything but "go have a beer". The sequence needs to be an apology from BO and then a beer. Gates is an old fool.

298

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:15:00pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

Wow. I'm not arguing that Crowley doesn't deserve an apology simply by saying he should go have a beer. Additionally- I didn't say it was the police officers being the race baiters.

However, the real race baiters surely would like to see tensions remain high instead of a resolution to this issue. Based on nothing more than that- I vote for a resolution.

I'd like to see a resolution too, but there's a lot being placed on Officer Crowley's shoulders, it seems to me, to ensure that some sort of resolution occurs, while Gates seems to be continuing his "race" act.

I'm afraid the only acceptable resolution to the race-baiters would be to have Officer Crowley crawling on his knees begging forgiveness. I hope I'm wrong about that.

299

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:15:29pm

re: #282 Sharmuta

Wow. I'm not arguing that Crowley doesn't deserve an apology simply by saying he should go have a beer. Additionally- I didn't say it was the police officers being the race baiters.

However, the real race baiters surely would like to see tensions remain high instead of a resolution to this issue. Based on nothing more than that- I vote for a resolution.

with preconditions...apologize in public

300

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:15:50pm

Henry Gates' daughter wasted no time getting on tv to talk about the incident:

Speaking on "The Early Show" Friday, Elizabeth Gates and Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who is also black, talked about the possibility of bringing Gates and Crowley together to settle their differences.
Simmons said she has received a "positive response" from Gates, but has yet to hear back from Crowley. To which Elizabeth Gates said: "I don't think the officer is being at all cooperative."
On Thursday, the Cambridge Police Department said it would launch an investigation into the matter and it revealed that Crowley had been hand-picked by the city's black police commissioner to teach a racial profiling class to new officers.
"I think he needs to maybe extend his sensitivity training," Elizabeth Gates said of Crowley, and stressed the importance of the officer sitting down with her father.

"If it's left as is, we're going to rely on our preconceived notions of race." [Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

301

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:16:09pm

re: #259 Killian Bundy

Goalposts . . . over there -->

/what on earth does that have to do with the time of day?

People were saying that Crowley shouldn't go to the WH or have anything to do w/ Gates and Obama. I was saying that people who have suffered far worse indignities than Crowley has have nonetheless managed to forgive and to work constructively w/ the people who wronged them.

302

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:17:47pm

re: #288 Sharmuta

Freedom = Slavery
War = Peace

/all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others

303

Truck Monkey Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:18:04pm

re: #296 Racer X

What should Sgt. Crowley have done differently?

He should have recognized the esteemed Dr. Gates and shown him the deference he deserved. *cough* bullshit *cough*

304

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:18:21pm

re: #24 albusteve

don't do it Crowley...you are being used

As I wrote in a thread below, I haven't even scrutinized Crowley's version of the case, since I took one look at Gates' OWN SPIN of the incident written a few days after the fact and published on a website THAT GATES RUNS, and it was immediately evident that Gates was the quick-to-prejudge asshole here, not Crowley. (Although I believe that Gates' problem is just as much about class snobbery as it is about "playing the race card.")

And since that WAS written a few days later, by which time Gates ought to have been adult enough to reflect on his own mistakes, I share albusteve's pessimism that Gates will try to extort concessions and apologies from Crowley without yielding any ground from his own side.

Approach this "invitation" with extreme caution, officer.

305

wrenchwench Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:18:28pm

re: #301 JustMyView

And what should Gates do?

306

Ben G. Hazi Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:01pm

re: #300 jaunte

Henry Gates' daughter wasted no time getting on tv to talk about the incident:

The apple doesn't fall fall far from the tree...right, Elizabeth?

307

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:12pm

re: #298 reine.de.tout

I'd like to see a resolution too, but there's a lot being placed on Officer Crowley's shoulders, it seems to me, to ensure that some sort of resolution occurs, while Gates seems to be continuing his "race" act.

I'm afraid the only acceptable resolution to the race-baiters would be to have Officer Crowley crawling on his knees begging forgiveness. I hope I'm wrong about that.

I doubt Don Black wants Crowley to crawl on his knees. Probably thinks Crowley shouldn't go at all.

308

VegasRick Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:13pm

re: #275 Sharmuta

I most certainly think the President should apologize. And Gates too, but saying "no" would mean the opportunity is lost.

Sharm,
Do you really think this meeting is about 0 and grates (as in my nerves) apologizing to Crowley?

309

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:27pm

re: #276 jaunte

I don't think the eyewitness report in the Gates case was the problematic part. Two men actually were trying to force entry. The fact that the witness didn't recognize Gates was an issue, but not unjust.

Right. I didn't mean to be saying that there was an issue of identity at stake in this case. It was the idea of having been wronged and being able to get beyond it that I was trying to discuss. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

310

Age Of Freedom Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:32pm

This is 0bama's understanding of world peace. It doesn't matter if there's no justice in bringing the good and bad together for beer. It's just about the feeling of (false) peace.

And to those here that say that it's both sides that contribute to the polarized political status here in the U.S., you're some of the worst hypocrite suck ups around.

311

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:55pm

re: #290 JustMyView

It's kind of fascinating that conservatives who are generally concerned about excessive power of the state find it to be OK for the police to arrest people for, essentially, the crime of annoying them. Is giving people time to reflect really something we want the police to do?

Here's Charles' comment on why those charged with enforcing the laws or rules do what they do.

It's more than "the crime of annoying them".

312

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:19:57pm

re: #301 JustMyView

People were saying that Crowley shouldn't go to the WH or have anything to do w/ Gates and Obama. I was saying that people who have suffered far worse indignities than Crowley has have nonetheless managed to forgive and to work constructively w/ the people who wronged them.

Fine.

/that doesn't excuse the asholish behaviour by Gates and Obama

313

Capitalistincharge Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:20:15pm

Albus...I think it would be highly appropriate. During the 60's and70's we witnessed endless debate among whites regarding racism and how to eradicate it from society. Civil Rights and equality issues were big issues. So, why not have a panel of blacks discussing their issues with racism towards whites and find a way to work on it. Probably not gonna happen because Wright, Jackson, Sharpton, etc would have to renounce victimhood and that'll never happen.

314

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:20:18pm

re: #309 JustMyView

Ah, thanks for explaining!

315

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:20:35pm

re: #284 Racer X

I have not assumed that.

I am wondering what he wanted the police officer to do differently.

OK, in my opinion, Gates wanted the officer to do exactly what he did, except for the arresting part.

So the answer to your question would be "Take the verbal abuse, and leave with his tail between his legs".

316

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:20:41pm

re: #301 JustMyView

People were saying that Crowley shouldn't go to the WH or have anything to do w/ Gates and Obama. I was saying that people who have suffered far worse indignities than Crowley has have nonetheless managed to forgive and to work constructively w/ the people who wronged them.

whether Crowley 'forgives' is his business alone and should not be judged as to the relative degree of his indignities...that's all bullshit

317

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:20:59pm

re: #307 Sharmuta

I doubt Don Black wants Crowley to crawl on his knees. Probably thinks Crowley shouldn't go at all.

True, that.
I was thinking more about Gates and those supporting him.

318

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:21:45pm

Have the tapes been released?

319

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:21:56pm

re: #301 JustMyView

Also, people who have suffered far worse indignities than Gates have nonetheless managed to thank the people charged with protecting their lives and property.

320

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:22:13pm

re: #318 DEZes

Have the tapes been released?

/not yet

321

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:22:15pm

re: #290 JustMyView

It's kind of fascinating that conservatives who are generally concerned about excessive power of the state find it to be OK for the police to arrest people for, essentially, the crime of annoying them. Is giving people time to reflect really something we want the police to do?

It's about controlling the situation. For the officers, public's and the arrestees safety, both short term and long term. When someone escalates and doesn't follow officers instructions, you don't know where it will it, so it's best to control the situation. If that takes cuffing the person and tossing them in the back of the cruiser to cool down fine.

Public safety and order depend, on people during a incident on following officers instructions, time for a debate isn't during the middle, and the street is not a court room.

If every Tom, Dick and Gates thinks they have the right to disregard an officers instructions we have anarchy.

All Gates had to was say, "Officer this is my home, here is my ID, thank you for responding to a report of someone breaking in, Thank you."

Instead his first reaction is to launch into a tirade on racial profiling, and the President did essentially the same thing.

I've seen it my self on a number of occasion, doing ride alongs, and commercial vehicle enforcement. Stop a vehicle for proper cause, approach the driver, who turns out to be black (next time you are on the road, look 10 cars ahead and tell me the drivers race), and the first thing out of their mouth is, "you stopped me because I'm black!"

322

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:22:21pm

re: #296 Racer X

What should Sgt. Crowley have done differently?

I think he could have left after he'd established that Gates was in his own house.

323

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:22:43pm

re: #320 Killian Bundy

/not yet

Thanks, I would love to hear them.

324

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:23:19pm

re: #308 VegasRick

Sharm,
Do you really think this meeting is about 0 and grates (as in my nerves) apologizing to Crowley?

This is about Obama getting in front of the camera and announcing with the gravitas becoming a Mideast Peace Treaty proclamation that he has brokered a peace deal between the two afflicted parties and there is nothing more to see here.

325

The Shadow Do Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:23:33pm

re: #269 Racer X

What exactly does Mr. Gates think Sgt. Crowley should have done differently?

Honest question - if anyone cares to throw out a guess.

Immediately upon observation that Mr Gates was a black man, he should have apologized for trespassing and offered full resititution. Anything short of that is pure racism of course.

326

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:23:41pm

re: #317 reine.de.tout

True, that.
I was thinking more about Gates and those supporting him.

It's very important to keep in mind that this problem is being fueled by people on both sides of the issue. They want to keep tensions high and they want us to focus on who they say the problem is. I say all the race baiters are a problem.

327

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:24:13pm

re: #323 DEZes

Thanks, I would love to hear them.

/probably make the apologies more forthcoming

328

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:24:35pm

re: #321 JCM

All Gates had to was say, "Officer this is my home, here is my ID, thank you for responding to a report of someone breaking in, Thank you."

Instead his first reaction is to launch into a tirade on racial profiling, and the President did essentially the same thing.

Yep.

329

The Shadow Do Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:25:14pm

Oh, and Officer, you should know you are expected to buy the beer of course.

330

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:25:22pm

re: #322 JustMyView

I think he could have left after he'd established that Gates was in his own house.

So, verbally abusing a police officer is OK?

331

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:25:31pm

re: #326 Sharmuta

It's very important to keep in mind that this problem is being fueled by people on both sides of the issue. They want to keep tensions high and they want us to focus on who they say the problem is. I say all the race baiters are a problem.

of course...and the biggest problems are the ones who garner the most attention...and attention is $$$

332

ted Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:25:39pm

re: #233 J.D.

Good one.

One of the greatest.

333

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:26:05pm

re: #330 Racer X

Only if you're a Harvard professor, or high government official.

334

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:26:16pm

re: #324 pianobuff

This is about Obama getting in front of the camera and announcing with the gravitas becoming a Mideast Peace Treaty proclamation that he has brokered a peace deal between the two afflicted parties and there is nothing more to see here.

This is also about BO showing the world who BO really is. As long as he refuses to apologize, he should be left to twist in the wind while his numbers continue to slide downhill. Having a beer with Crowley is just PR for BO.

335

pink freud Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:26:16pm

re: #302 Killian Bundy

/all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others

If 'pro' is the opposite of 'con' what is the opposite of 'progress'?

/Paul Harvey

336

rightside Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:26:27pm

[Link: www.collegehumor.com...]

337

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:26:28pm

re: #290 JustMyView

It's kind of fascinating that conservatives who are generally concerned about excessive power of the state find it to be OK for the police to arrest people for, essentially, the crime of annoying them. Is giving people time to reflect really something we want the police to do?

That's another matter. Whether or not Gates was being treated equally is the point I was making.

But on that point, is it good for a crowd to see a man berate and hurl insults at police officer trying to do his job? Wouldn't condoning that behavior just encourage similar behavior in others? I don't know. In any case, I wouldn't characterize it as just "annoying them" until a knew more. Maybe that is all Gates was doing.

I don't know what happened between Gates and Crowley and neither does the President.

And neither did the mayor when she apologized to Gates before talking to Crowley or the police department.

338

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:27:02pm

re: #333 jaunte

Only if you're a Harvard professor, or high government official.

Or Cynthia McKinney

339

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:27:07pm

re: #326 Sharmuta

It's very important to keep in mind that this problem is being fueled by people on both sides of the issue. They want to keep tensions high and they want us to focus on who they say the problem is. I say all the race baiters are a problem.

I agree, all race baiters are problems, and the folks that sent out that vile photo-shop that was featured on a post yesterday should be identified and called on their racism.

In this particular case, the race-baiting, it seems, is being done by Gates, his daughter, the black caucus, etc.

340

BIGDUKE 6 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:27:29pm

re: #113 Gretchen

re: #249 jaunte
The sadly this isn't even about racial profiling this is about " DONT YOU KNOW WHO I AM ??? !!! "

341

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:27:39pm

The more I think about it, WTF was Obama thinking when he waded into this?

/we probably don't want to know

342

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:27:46pm

re: #338 Racer X

In her mind, she fits the second category!

343

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:27:47pm

re: #304 Throbert McGee

I took one look at Gates' OWN SPIN of the incident written a few days after the fact and published on a website THAT GATES RUNS, and it was immediately evident that Gates was the quick-to-prejudge asshole here, not Crowley.

Thus kind of illustrating the principle that "a man who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a lawyer." Except that since this is the court of public opinion rather than a court of law, Gates will have an army of victimhood hustlers and media "progressives" busily working to help conceal what a douche he is.

("But he's a distinguished MacArthur-Genius-Grant genius and walks with a ca-a-a-ane!")

344

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:28:12pm

re: #331 albusteve

of course...and the biggest problems are the ones who garner the most attention...and attention is $$$

I think the bigger problem is the bigots with the respectable facades that obfuscate enough of their bigotry that people don't even recognize it when they see it.

345

equable Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:28:29pm

This story gets more and more bizarre as time goes on.

I hope that the liquid courage diminishes Gates' capacities enough so that he says something even more stupid and that Obama is caught agreeing with him. I am sure that if something like this were to happen the MSM would offer every excuse imaginable for Obama.

It'd make kick-ass grist for youtube, however.

346

ted Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:28:47pm

re: #247 OldLineTexan

I'd porter.

/

Nice head.

347

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:29:30pm

re: #341 Killian Bundy

The more I think about it, WTF was Obama thinking when he waded into this?

/we probably don't want to know

Distraction from other issues, say, the health care legislation?

348

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:29:44pm

re: #339 reine.de.tout

In this particular case, the race-baiting, it seems, is being done by Gates, his daughter, the black caucus, etc.

And most particularly by BO

349

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:29:52pm

re: #339 reine.de.tout

I agree, all race baiters are problems, and the folks that sent out that vile photo-shop that was featured on a post yesterday should be identified and called on their racism.

In this particular case, the race-baiting, it seems, is being done by Gates, his daughter, the black caucus, etc.

I don't disagree. I do think all the race baiters have jumped on this story now to further their particular agenda.

350

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:30:05pm

re: #341 Killian Bundy

The more I think about it, WTF was Obama thinking when he waded into this?

/we probably don't want to know

leading with his jaw like a fucking amateur...he's a conceited fool

351

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:30:27pm

re: #347 reine.de.tout

Distraction from other issues, say, the health care legislation?

Shhh! Nobody wants to hear that this story is a distraction. Trust me.

352

Truck Monkey Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:30:44pm

re: #346 ted

Nice head.

I was teetering on making a 'head' joke. This was done with better taste than if I'd have done it.

353

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:31:04pm

re: #344 Sharmuta

I think the bigger problem is the bigots with the respectable facades that obfuscate enough of their bigotry that people don't even recognize it when they see it.

bingo...tea party

354

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:31:08pm

re: #345 equable

This story gets more and more bizarre as time goes on.

I hope that the liquid courage diminishes Gates' capacities enough so that he says something even more stupid and that Obama is caught agreeing with him. I am sure that if something like this were to happen the MSM would offer every excuse imaginable for Obama.

It'd make kick-ass grist for youtube, however.

Oh, no!
That wouldn't solve anything at all, and it's just silly (or worse) to hope for such a thing.

355

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:31:10pm

re: #336 rightside

That was painfully funny.

356

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:31:12pm

re: #341 Killian Bundy

The more I think about it, WTF was Obama thinking when he waded into this?

/we probably don't want to know

$3 Trillion Dollar deficit.
$13 Trillion Dollar debt.

Let me toss some gasoline on a local race relations issue.

357

Macker Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:31:30pm

re: #266 huckfunn

BO proclaimed to be stunned at what a big flapadoodle this has turned into. I wonder if he'll be as stunned when he discovers that Hirohito didn't surrender to MacArthur or Grant.

He won't. Оба́ма is simply ignorant of History. That is why he will repeat it...and we are paying the price.

358

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:31:46pm

re: #322 JustMyView

I think he could have left after he'd established that Gates was in his own house.

Most jurisdiction, providing ID to an officer upon request and with probably cause is REQUIRED BY LAW.

PC was investigation of a burglary in progress, persons matching description given by reporting party were in the house.

Gates DID NOT provide ID upon request instead he goes on a tirade. Gates escalated, failed to follow officers instruction, even after ID was established according to reports he did not de-escalate, and he would not de-escalate.

359

swamprat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:32:11pm

re: #340 BIGDUKE 6

re: #249 jaunte
The sadly this isn't even about racial profiling this is about " DONT YOU KNOW WHO I AM ??? !!! "

I have friends!
(Whom I have taught to believe, as I do, that America is innately racist!)
Come and see the racism inherent in the system!

360

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:32:18pm

re: #353 albusteve

bingo...tea party

not that I agree it is the biggest problem, but a keen observation that deserves credit...good call

361

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:32:35pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

Shhh! Nobody wants to hear that this story is a distraction. Trust me.

/relax, we have until September now until Congress starts trying to foist again

362

Age Of Freedom Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:33:10pm

re: #255 huckfunn

I simply didn't see any race baiting coming from the cops while it was very obvious that Gates and BO were playing the race card. Being adults is a 2 way street. The adult-in-chief needs to apologize before Crowley shares a beer with him and Gates.

Amen.
Let justice be the resolution, not resolution be the justice.

0 thinks this is a home meeting association to bring together two bad ends, when in reality it was only one side that keeps openly saying he will not accept any situation unless it furthers the "racial profiling" agenda.

That racist loser dares to even say he forgives, as a human being, to Crowley.
0 makes things worse by not addressing the problem.

Those that support this invite are hypocrites.

363

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:33:39pm

re: #361 Killian Bundy

/relax, we have until September now until Congress starts trying to foist again

by then it will be football season...oh look!--->

364

Bloodnok Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:33:41pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

Oh, no!
That wouldn't solve anything at all, and it's just silly (or worse) to hope for such a thing.

Exactly. America does not need that.

365

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:33:42pm

re: #358 JCM

Most jurisdiction, providing ID to an officer upon request and with probably cause is REQUIRED BY LAW.

PC was investigation of a burglary in progress, persons matching description given by reporting party were in the house.

Gates DID NOT provide ID upon request instead he goes on a tirade. Gates escalated, failed to follow officers instruction, even after ID was established according to reports he did not de-escalate, and he would not de-escalate.

Failing to follow orders by a police officer is a crime. Insult the police officer's mama, and you will get a ride in the back of a patrol car.

366

equable Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:33:47pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

Oh, no!
That wouldn't solve anything at all, and it's just silly (or worse) to hope for such a thing.

I never implied that it would "solve" anything. And of course it's silly. That's the whole point.

367

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:33:59pm

re: #357 Macker

He won't. Оба́ма is simply ignorant of History. That is why he will repeat it...and we are paying the price.

BO is showing on a daily basis he is simply ignorant of many things.

368

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:34:28pm

Considering Gates is still talking about this like it's a 'racial profiling' issue where he was the one profiled, I doubt there will be any healing involved in this beer drinking. In fact, since Obama wants this whole episode to be a 'teachable moment' for the rest of us and Gates wants us to be ashamed for how horribly he was profiled, I'd say this is just sweeping the problem under the rug with a happy ending for the media.

I take back what I said before. Obama will not hesitate to deal the race card again. Not for a fraction of a second.

369

snowcrash Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:35:10pm

Crowley is the only one who has acted like an adult in this whole mess. I predict he will continue to do so, not for Gates but for the black officers he works with and considers his brothers and the ethnically mixed Cambridge neighborhoods he serves. I'm sure he has taken crap before and will take it some more. Cops do. Most shame heaped on President Obama for using the power of his office as a bully pulpit without having the facts and elevating it to the national level.

370

albusteve Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:35:14pm

race in America...cha ching!

371

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:35:38pm

re: #366 equable

I never implied that it would "solve" anything. And of course it's silly. That's the whole point.

Well, then I guess I misunderstood your statement, quoted below - it seemed you were "hoping" for this to happen:

I hope that the liquid courage diminishes Gates' capacities enough so that he says something even more stupid and that Obama is caught agreeing with him. I am sure that if something like this were to happen the MSM would offer every excuse imaginable for Obama.

372

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:36:32pm

re: #369 snowcrash

Crowley is the only one who has acted like an adult in this whole mess. I predict he will continue to do so, not for Gates but for the black officers he works with and considers his brothers and the ethnically mixed Cambridge neighborhoods he serves. I'm sure he has taken crap before and will take it some more. Cops do. Most shame heaped on President Obama for using the power of his office as a bully pulpit without having the facts and elevating it to the national level.

I agree with you.

373

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:36:44pm

re: #362 Age Of Freedom

Amen.
Let justice be the resolution, not resolution be the justice.

0 thinks this is a home meeting association to bring together two bad ends, when in reality it was only one side that keeps openly saying he will not accept any situation unless it furthers the "racial profiling" agenda.

That racist loser dares to even say he forgives, as a human being, to Crowley.
0 makes things worse by not addressing the problem.

Those that support this invite are hypocrites.

Yessir!! BTW, I love that avatar.

374

ryannon Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:36:53pm

re: #334 huckfunn

This is also about BO showing the world who BO really is. As long as he refuses to apologize, he should be left to twist in the wind while his numbers continue to slide downhill. Having a beer with Crowley is just PR for BO.

Never allow a crisis go to waste.

375

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:37:33pm

re: #311 reine.de.tout

Here's Charles' comment on why those charged with enforcing the laws or rules do what they do.

It's more than "the crime of annoying them".

I understand Charles's comment, but the situations are not exactly analogous. At LGF, the same people interact directly with each other over and over again. The interaction between Gates and Crowley, on the other hand, did not need to continue. In fact, it should have been brought to an end sooner than it was.

376

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:37:51pm

re: #322 JustMyView

I think he could have left after he'd established that Gates was in his own house.

He tried to. Gates followed him out, yelling insults at him the whole way and gathering a crowd. Then he tried to incite the crowd. The officer acted properly.

377

Age Of Freedom Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:38:07pm

re: #341 Killian Bundy

The more I think about it, WTF was Obama thinking when he waded into this?

/we probably don't want to know

After 20 years with Wright, it explains why he did.

378

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:38:23pm

A cop gets a call that a burglary is in progress and responds.
And thats called racial profiling?
Just how many mental contortions does a person have to go through to come up with anything so profoundly stupid?

379

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:38:33pm

re: #375 JustMyView

I understand Charles's comment, but the situations are not exactly analogous. At LGF, the same people interact directly with each other over and over again. The interaction between Gates and Crowley, on the other hand, did not need to continue. In fact, it should have been brought to an end sooner than it was.

And would have been if Gates had let Officer Crowley leave when he tried to. Gates bears full responsibility here.

380

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:39:10pm

re: #374 ryannon

Never allow a crisis go to waste.

You got that right! Where's ol' Gagbad Bob hangin' these days?

381

Equable Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:39:35pm

re: #371 reine.de.tout

Well, then I guess I misunderstood your statement, quoted below - it seemed you were "hoping" for this to happen:

I can see how - I'll clarify by what I said at the end, how it'd be kick-ass grist for youtube. I mean if we're going to be bludgeoned to death with stories about silly, pathetic, petty and professional race-baiters like Gates then they could at least bring the amusement factor up a notch.

Also the whole idea of bringing everybody over for some beer like a bunch of normal guys hanging out... the short-sightedness of Obama never ceases to amaze me. And besides, it's evident that Gates has a chip on his shoulder the size of a redwood stump. What would alcohol do to the situation?

382

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:40:05pm

re: #375 JustMyView

I understand Charles's comment, but the situations are not exactly analogous. At LGF, the same people interact directly with each other over and over again. The interaction between Gates and Crowley, on the other hand, did not need to continue. In fact, it should have been brought to an end sooner than it was.

And it would have, if Gates simply provided his ID when first asked, as required by law.

383

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:40:21pm

re: #351 Sharmuta

Shhh! Nobody wants to hear that this story is a distraction. Trust me.

Complain to Charles. He posted the topic.

384

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:40:46pm

re: #301 JustMyView

I was saying that people who have suffered far worse indignities than ~~Crowley~~ Gates have have nonetheless managed to forgive and to work constructively w/ the people who wronged them.

There, fixed that for you.

Again, going by Gates' own laughably inept attempt at self-justification written days later, this started with:

He says "Can you prove that you're a Harvard professor?" I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I'd left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he's sitting there looking at them.

Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.

So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.

Jive-ass turkey thinks he's Deanna fucking Troi from planet fucking Betazed: "I sensed danger, and hostility, and a narrative!"

385

The Shadow Do Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:40:49pm

re: #350 albusteve

leading with his jaw like a fucking amateur...he's a conceited fool

That is exactly right. Folks tend to believe that the act of taking the Presidency assumes wisdom. It can be tough to cut through that assumption but this one seems bent on doing just that in record time thank goodness.

Guy is beginning to remind me of the kid in the Twilight Zone episode that would plant you in the cornfield for a bad thought. Just a kid with awesome power.

386

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:41:03pm

re: #356 Racer X

$3 Trillion Dollar deficit.
$13 Trillion Dollar debt.

Let me toss some gasoline on a local race relations issue.

/actually, it's more like $74 trillion when you add it all up, and no, rich people in America don't have that much mooney to confiscate

387

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:42:01pm

re: #382 JCM

And it would have, if Gates simply provided his ID when first asked, as required by law.

Further; anyone who yacks off to a cop is just schtoopid.

388

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:42:50pm

re: #375 JustMyView

In fact, it should have been brought to an end sooner than it was.

Your mama...

/ivy-league professor

389

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:43:31pm

re: #387 huckfunn

Further; anyone who yacks off to a cop is just schtoopid.

Gates is a professor, so he is an over educated idiot. ;)

390

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:43:32pm

re: #330 Racer X

So, verbally abusing a police officer is OK?

No, it's not OK, but, as far as I know, it's not illegal either.

391

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:43:46pm

re: #358 JCM

Most jurisdiction, providing ID to an officer upon request and with probably cause is REQUIRED BY LAW.

PC was investigation of a burglary in progress, persons matching description given by reporting party were in the house.

Gates DID NOT provide ID upon request instead he goes on a tirade. Gates escalated, failed to follow officers instruction, even after ID was established according to reports he did not de-escalate, and he would not de-escalate.

The officer had left the residence. Gates continued his yelling at the officer. Even after being warned that he was being disorderly (three times).

The question now might be if a man can be disorderly by yelling at officer from his porch. Was Gates a real threat in anyway if the officer had simply left.

How best to de-escalate the situation? Open a fire hose at Gates? Shout back? Turn around, walk up the steps, and arrest the man who is doing the yelling? Or just drive away laughing...

392

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:44:45pm

re: #386 Killian Bundy

/actually, it's more like $74 trillion when you add it all up, and no, rich people in America don't have that much mooney to confiscate

Dude. You're harshing my buzz.

I need another beer.

393

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:45:11pm

re: #389 DEZes

Further; anyone who yacks off to a cop is just schtoopid.

Gates is a professor, so he is an over educated idiot. ;)

I bet he's yackin' off right now :)

394

Arbalest Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:45:24pm

I think that we are going to see a teachable moment that becomes the textbook case for “teachable moment”.

Obama made a mistake talking about the incident past any words equivalent to “I heard about it”. He’s now trying to douse the flames by throwing brandy on the fire. Obama should have left things alone.

Gates is clearly a problem child, and is used to getting his way: professor, tenure, academic freedom. No matter what is said to him, or who says it, he will be hair-trigger-primed when he shows up at the W.H. Obama’s invitation was a big mistake.

Doubtless Gates will at least expect to make good on his offer to lecture Crowley. If he is not permitted, or if Crowley defends himself, as he should, and does it by poking holes in Gates’ pontifications and revisionist drivel, Gates will lose it, and the Secret Service will step in.

Crowley needs to defend himself, and he needs to correct Gates on matters of historical fact, current police policy and procedures, crime statistics, etc. Not every sentence or paragraph, but enough to keep Gates honest. No matter who tells him not to, or how they tell him, Crowley needs to do this.

If Crowley makes a small exit comment, mentioning the highlights and a couple of exchanges, then everything will look like it’s been resolved. Given Gate’s prior conduct, it might even look like Gates offered an apology.

Will Gates stand for any of this? I doubt it.

This has the makings of a long series. Keep plenty of beer ready.

395

theheat Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:45:47pm

re: #168 VegasRick

I am going to fucking scream if it ends like "Mr. Crowley now understands the dangers of racial profilling" or some such shit.

I think we have winner. Yes, Mr. Crowley now has to accept he was part of something that never happened in the first place, to raise awareness of yet another something that never happened. Simply by being involved, he unwittingly becomes a tool for race baiters.

I hope the beer's good. That will be the only upside to this whole bullshit manufactured crisis for Crowley, because it's going to be one helluva soapbox for Gates and Obama.

396

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:45:48pm

re: #376 kynna

He tried to. Gates followed him out, yelling insults at him the whole way and gathering a crowd. Then he tried to incite the crowd. The officer acted properly.

incite the crowd? That might be an exaggeration. There is nothing in any report that says Gates asked the crowd to do anything.

397

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:45:51pm

re: #393 huckfunn

I bet he's yackin' off right now :)

Thats a safe bet.

398

snowcrash Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:45:59pm

I think it was professional of Crowley to just take Gates down to the station. Crowley changed the tone and stopped the escalation. It could have gotten much worse.

399

bobbuck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:46:34pm

I don't think I would drink beer brewed from arugula if my best friend offered it to me, definitely not if offered by two people intent on destroying my career.

400

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:46:41pm

re: #381 Equable

I can see how - I'll clarify by what I said at the end, how it'd be kick-ass grist for youtube. I mean if we're going to be bludgeoned to death with stories about silly, pathetic, petty and professional race-baiters like Gates then they could at least bring the amusement factor up a notch.

Also the whole idea of bringing everybody over for some beer like a bunch of normal guys hanging out... the short-sightedness of Obama never ceases to amaze me. And besides, it's evident that Gates has a chip on his shoulder the size of a redwood stump. What would alcohol do to the situation?

OK, your point was better made here.

401

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:47:26pm

re: #390 JustMyView

No, it's not OK, but, as far as I know, it's not illegal either.

Huh. So Gates was arrested without cause?

402

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:49:04pm

re: #387 huckfunn

Further; anyone who yacks off to a cop is just schtoopid.

further, anyone who does not appreciate the job the cops do in keeping us safe is just schtoopid.

403

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:50:42pm

re: #390 JustMyView

Depending on how loud and constant the abuse is, that can be considered 'Disturbing the Peace' or 'Disorderly Conduct' in most jusrisdictions.

404

kynna Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:50:59pm

re: #390 JustMyView

No, it's not OK, but, as far as I know, it's not illegal either.

Disturbing the peace and trying to incite a crowd is illegal. And, it wouldn't be a stretch to see Gates's behavior as somewhat threatening to Crowley since the officer tried to leave, but was followed and engaged.

I think you got your 'facts' about this case from some talking points. You may need to look someplace else for the actual story. No one can twist it so Crowley is to blame. That's why they're trying to sweep it under the rug and ignore the facts.

405

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:51:18pm

re: #395 theheat

I think we have winner. Yes, Mr. Crowley now has to accept he was part of something that never happened in the first place, to raise awareness of yet another something that never happened. Simply by being involved, he unwittingly becomes a tool for race baiters.

I hope the beer's good. That will be the only upside to this whole bullshit manufactured crisis for Crowley, because it's going to be one helluva soapbox for Gates and Obama.

I hope you're wrong. But I had the same thought earlier:

re: #298 reine.de.tout

I'd like to see a resolution too, but there's a lot being placed on Officer Crowley's shoulders, it seems to me, to ensure that some sort of resolution occurs, while Gates seems to be continuing his "race" act.

I'm afraid the only acceptable resolution to the race-baiters would be to have Officer Crowley crawling on his knees begging forgiveness. I hope I'm wrong about that.

406

itellu3times Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:51:21pm

You think the beer is good, how about the weed?

/just sayin', I'm sure Clinton left some in the back of a drawer somewhere, if Dubya didn't find it and smoke it

407

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:51:31pm

re: #402 reine.de.tout

further, anyone who does not appreciate the job the cops do in keeping us safe is just schtoopid.

I regret that the attention on this incident is just going to raise tensions in police stops all over the country, and these two men in leadership positions are telling people there is a justification for acting out their frustrations in the heat of the moment with the police.

408

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:52:16pm

re: #398 snowcrash

I think it was professional of Crowley to just take Gates down to the station. Crowley changed the tone and stopped the escalation. It could have gotten much worse.

You never know where a situation is headed. Verbal often leads to physical, and it's not unknown for bystanders to get involved.

Officers CONTROLLED the situation, by restraining and removing the out of control person. That's pretty SOP with LE, they use disordely conduct charges to do it. As soon as the individual cools off they are released.

It's a move for the safety of all involved.

409

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:52:22pm

re: #337 HelloDare

I don't know what happened between Gates and Crowley and neither does the President.

And neither did the mayor when she apologized to Gates before talking to Crowley or the police department.

And neither do I. Moreover, unless there is a tape that contains a full record of the incident from beginning to end, none of us ever will know. The certainty that some people here have expressed is not justified. All the more reason to make peace and find something constructive to do in the future.

410

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:52:45pm

re: #407 jaunte

I regret that the attention on this incident is just going to raise tensions in police stops all over the country, and these two men in leadership positions are telling people there is a justification for acting out their frustrations in the heat of the moment with the police.

Yeah, that's a definite possibility, for certain.

411

Age Of Freedom Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:52:58pm

re: #381 Equable

I can see how - I'll clarify by what I said at the end, how it'd be kick-ass grist for youtube. I mean if we're going to be bludgeoned to death with stories about silly, pathetic, petty and professional race-baiters like Gates then they could at least bring the amusement factor up a notch.

Also the whole idea of bringing everybody over for some beer like a bunch of normal guys hanging out... the short-sightedness of Obama never ceases to amaze me. And besides, it's evident that Gates has a chip on his shoulder the size of a redwood stump. What would alcohol do to the situation?

Up ding.

412

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:53:13pm

Biggest slap-in-the-face for Crowley comes from being second-guessed by this race-baiting fuckup of a used car calesman presently residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

413

bobbuck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:54:02pm

re: #336 rightside

I'm laughing so hard I hurt. Quality stuff.

414

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:54:02pm

re: #390 JustMyView

No, it's not OK, but, as far as I know, it's not illegal either.

A typical statutory definition of disorderly conduct, in this case Indiana's, defines the offense in this way:

A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:
(1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
(2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
(3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;

415

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:54:28pm

re: #378 DEZes

It takes spin worthy of having a gyroscope to do that.

416

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:54:28pm

re: #409 JustMyView

And neither do I. Moreover, unless there is a tape that contains a full record of the incident from beginning to end, none of us ever will know. The certainty that some people here have expressed is not justified. All the more reason to make peace and find something constructive to do in the future.

JMV - I suspect if that tape supported Gates (and his friend, the President), it would have already been made public.

417

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:54:35pm

Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

"I'm always worried about using the word 'victory,' because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur," Obama told ABC News.

/and the Germans bombed Pearl harbor

418

huckfunn Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:55:33pm

re: #402 reine.de.tout

further, anyone who does not appreciate the job the cops do in keeping us safe is just schtoopid.

Ain't that the truth!? I was a military policeman for a couple of years in the last century.

419

yenta-fada Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:55:34pm

re: #341 Killian Bundy

The more I think about it, WTF was Obama thinking when he waded into this?

/we probably don't want to know

Obama wasn't thinking. He was just doing the same old sh.. that made him President. He's a one trick pony. (And I don't mean anything racist by that)

420

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:55:50pm

re: #417 Killian Bundy

Real great morale booster there, Barry.

421

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:55:57pm

re: #415 irongrampa

It takes spin worthy of having a gyroscope to do that.

Thats one big Gyro. ;)

422

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:56:22pm

re: #189 pink freud

A testament to his failure as a leader and a uniter.

Didn't Bush also turn off a large part of his audience just by breathing and standing upright? Or are those two different things? :)

423

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:56:49pm

re: #406 itellu3times

You think the beer is good, how about the weed?

/just sayin', I'm sure Clinton left some in the back of a drawer somewhere, if Dubya didn't find it and smoke it

Dubya has his own.

424

reine.de.tout Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:57:23pm

re: #336 rightside

[Link: www.collegehumor.com...]

WTF is wrong with that woman?
LOL
too funny.
"The land is free. Why do we have to pay for the land? The food's free . . ."

did you see the kids behind her?

425

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:57:52pm

426

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:57:57pm

re: #420 irongrampa

Real great morale booster there, Barry.

/not to mention that Hirohito never got near the Missouri

427

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:59:30pm

re: #424 reine.de.tout

Well that helps explain some votes.

428

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 5:59:56pm

re: #368 kynna

Considering Gates is still talking about this like it's a 'racial profiling' issue where he was the one profiled, I doubt there will be any healing involved in this beer drinking. In fact, since Obama wants this whole episode to be a 'teachable moment' for the rest of us and Gates wants us to be ashamed for how horribly he was profiled, I'd say this is just sweeping the problem under the rug with a happy ending for the media.

I take back what I said before. Obama will not hesitate to deal the race card again. Not for a fraction of a second.

How about if we wait and see what happens?

429

irongrampa Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:00:09pm

re: #426 Killian Bundy

Can you imagine what the troops think, hearing that bullshit?

430

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:00:32pm

re: #409 JustMyView

The certainty that some people here have expressed is not justified. All the more reason to make peace and find something constructive to do in the future.

Thank you for some guffaw-inducing equivocating...

The certainty that some people here have expressed is unjustified? Including some lizards who are law enforcement officers?

Just curious...what about Barry's certainty about this situation that he expressed to the nation the other night...even after admitting he was biased and didn't have all the facts? Where exactly does that rate in your book?

431

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:00:47pm

re: #429 irongrampa

Can you imagine what the troops think, hearing that bullshit?

/yeah, I can

432

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:02:13pm

re: #79 Manfred the Wonder Dog

Gates sounds like a guy doing a cross between one of Chris Rock's "Keeping the black man down" routines and one of Sharpton's rants.

Oh, I beg to differ on Chris Rock -- because in fact, this all could've been avoided had Gates seen this prescient clip from Rock's comedy show several years ago (strong language and no-beverage-drinking warnings):

Youtube Video

I certainly don't endorse absolutely everything Rock has ever said on race-relation issues, but to his vast credit, he has famously little patience for self-excusing black victimhood hustlers.

433

Equable Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:06:10pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

OK, your point was better made here.

Thank you, sorry if I seemed incoherent in my attempt to sound funny/ironic in my earlier post.

re: #411 Age Of Freedom

Up ding.

Thank you kindly!

434

SixDegrees Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:06:21pm

re: #409 JustMyView

And neither do I. Moreover, unless there is a tape that contains a full record of the incident from beginning to end, none of us ever will know. The certainty that some people here have expressed is not justified. All the more reason to make peace and find something constructive to do in the future.

Something constructive like focusing on 0bama's unprofessional, derogatory remark calling the police department "stupid" without having the facts? I agree that this is the central issue; whatever may have passed between Gates and Crowley is a local matter. The President's biased overreach, however, deserves further consideration.

Despite his efforts and other's to change the topic.

435

Bill Jefferson Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:06:51pm

Recently Henry Louis Gates rambled that he is 56% white (though the day in question he did not say "this is what happens to a 44% black man in America!"), that his wife is white, and that their children are half-black.

Wait, if he's 56% white and his wife 100%, wouldn't their kids be 78%? Freudian slip shows how he identifies. I'll try to judge this fool on the content of his character.

By the way, he had just arrived home from a flight to China, so I can empathize with some jet lag (mine always comes upon returning). But the police are supposed to startle you, make you pay attention and want to cooperate. The fact he didn't suggests he does blue profiling.

I just wish Sgt. Crowley had gotten the ultimate dig: When Gates said "you don't know who you're dealing with," he should have responded, "yes sir, which is why I am requesting I.D."

436

Age Of Freedom Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:07:40pm

re: #373 huckfunn

Yessir!! BTW, I love that avatar.

Thank you!

437

SixDegrees Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:08:16pm

re: #390 JustMyView

No, it's not OK, but, as far as I know, it's not illegal either.

Disorderly conduct and failure to obey a police officer are both illegal in every jurisdiction I'm aware of. I'd be surprised if this turned out to be an exception.

438

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:10:39pm

re: #404 kynna

Disturbing the peace and trying to incite a crowd is illegal. And, it wouldn't be a stretch to see Gates's behavior as somewhat threatening to Crowley since the officer tried to leave, but was followed and engaged.

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

439

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:11:51pm

re: #438 JustMyView

I think you have that ego judgment backwards.

440

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:13:05pm

re: #437 SixDegrees

Disorderly conduct and failure to obey a police officer are both illegal in every jurisdiction I'm aware of. I'd be surprised if this turned out to be an exception.

It is apparently if you are black, a Havard Prof. and friend of BHO.

441

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:13:41pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

/apparently Gates' mouth was working just fine

442

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:15:12pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

No, the authority vested in him by legally constituted government, Gates failed to followed legal orders of a police officer.

443

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:17:25pm

re: #438 JustMyView

He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled.

And exactly how does that last fact in any way justify Gates' partly racist, partly class-ist instinct to ASS-U-ME things about Officer Crowley's motives and thinking?

P.S. People with canes aren't handi-capped, they're handi-capable, you pathetic and drearily predictable enabler of jive turkeys, you.

444

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:17:53pm

re: #416 reine.de.tout

JMV - I suspect if that tape supported Gates (and his friend, the President), it would have already been made public.

Really? How so? It's in the possession of the police. KB posted that they were considering whether to release it. See #188.

445

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:18:32pm

re: #438 JustMyView

I may be wasting my time, but I'll re-post this from the other day for the obtuse here (deliberate or otherwise).

Awhile back, a sherriff's deputy comes by and knocks on the front door of casa de Fenway (not an everyday occurance). For whatever reason, he wanted to know how long I had been living there. I answered and...here's the kicker...provided ID when asked. He explained that he stopped by because he recieved information that someone was squatting in a vacant residence in the area...and either they gave him the wrong address or the tip was bogus.

What do you think would've happened if I started yelling and swearing at him and telling him that he had no right to be there and he was a racist before he even asked me for ID? Maybe gratuitously bring up the deputy's hispanic last name to boot and told him he was only asking these questions because he had me pegged as white trash?

Even thought I wasn't (hypothetically) being violent per-se, but there's disorderly conduct laws on the books in many jurisdictions. How many hours do you think I would've spent in the hoosegow? The thing is, I'm not friends with the governor or President, so I can't run crying to them when I start acting like a combative, petulant brat towards a policeman following up on a complaint.

446

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:18:41pm

Assault doesn't always involve touching.

/ya verbally abuse a cop, ya takes your chances

447

Ben G. Hazi Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:18:47pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

Go piss up a rope...

/Mandy mode off

448

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:19:35pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

Its apparent you have a problem with authority.
It doesnt matter how imposing a threat is, its still a threat.
Gates was either to stupid to understand simple commands, or to arrogant to listen.

449

marsl Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:19:59pm

Isn't beer haraam?

450

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:20:26pm

re: #441 Killian Bundy

/apparently Gates' mouth was working just fine

Right, but, so far as I know, he did not threaten to bite Crowley. Look, I am not saying Gates behaved well. He probably didn't. But Crowley had the gun and the badge. He had, in my view, the greater responsibility to cool this situation out.

451

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:21:11pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

Wow.

Might I suggest you spend time with someone in law enforcement?

Anyone, and everyone can be a potential threat.

452

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:23:09pm

re: #450 JustMyView

Right, but, so far as I know, he did not threaten to bite Crowley. Look, I am not saying Gates behaved well. He probably didn't. But Crowley had the gun and the badge. He had, in my view, the greater responsibility to cool this situation out.

He did cool the situation out, he gave Gates a nice place to cool off.

453

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:23:23pm

re: #450 JustMyView

Right, but, so far as I know, he did not threaten to bite Crowley. Look, I am not saying Gates behaved well. He probably didn't. But Crowley had the gun and the badge. He had, in my view, the greater responsibility to cool this situation out.

Or Gates had the responsibility to just STFU after multiple warnings.

/he fought the law and the law won

454

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:25:09pm

re: #450 JustMyView

Right, but, so far as I know, he did not threaten to bite Crowley. Look, I am not saying Gates behaved well. He probably didn't. But Crowley had the gun and the badge. He had, in my view, the greater responsibility to cool this situation out.

And the HARVARD PROFESSOR on RACE RELATIONS had no responsibility to "cool this situation out"?

I mean, c'mon. Dude is a harvard professor dealing with a stupid redneck white trash police officer. Oops! Did I just type that out loud? I guess my mask is slipping TOO.

455

JCM Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:25:52pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

Police Use of Force Continuum

Level One
Officer Presence. The mere presence of a police officer in uniform or in a marked police unit is often enough to stop a crime in progress or prevent most situations from escalating. Without saying a word, the mere presence of a police officer can deter crime by the simple use of body language and gestures. At this level gestures should be non-threatening and professional. This "zero" level of force is always the best way to resolve any situation if possible.

Level Two

Verbal Commands. Used in combination with a visible presence, the use of the voice can usually achieve the desired results. Whether you instruct a person to, "Stop.", "Don't Move.", "Be quiet.", "Listen to me.", "Let me see your ID.", or, "You're under arrest."-- voice commands in conjunction with your mere presence will almost always resolve the situation. The content of the message is as important as your demeanor. It’s always best to start out calm but firm and non-threatening. Your choice of words and intensity can be increased as necessary, or used in short commands in more serious situations. The right combination of words in combination with officer presence can de-escalate a tense situation and prevent the need for a physical altercation. Training and experience improves the ability of a police officer to communicate effectively with everyone he/she comes in contact with.

Level Three

Empty Hand Control. Certain situations will arise where words alone will not reduce the aggression. This is the time police officers will need to get involved physically. This is a level of control employed by police officers minus the aid of equipment or weapons. There are two subcategories called, “soft empty hand techniques” and “hard empty hand techniques.” Soft Empty Hand Techniques: At this level minimal force would involve the use of bare hands to guide, hold, and restrain -- applying pressure points, and take down techniques that have a minimal chance of injury. Hard Empty Hand Techniques: At this level the use of force includes kicks, punches or other striking techniques such as the brachial stun or other strikes to key motor points that have a moderate chance of injury.

This standard training nationwide.

456

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:27:09pm

re: #450 JustMyView

And Crowley attempted to do just that...but Gates was yelling at him so loudly, he couldn't listen or communicate effectively via his radio (part of the reason Gates was asked to step on the porch).

So enlighten us, lawgiver; what's Crowley supposed to do when Gates won't let him get a word in and starts with the very mature and scholarly 'Your mama!' and 'Do you know who you're dealing with!?'

457

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:28:17pm

re: #417 Killian Bundy

Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

/and the Germans bombed Pearl harbor

You know, Gen. Petraeus said almost exactly the same thing about Iraq.

458

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:28:49pm

re: #429 irongrampa

Can you imagine what the troops think, hearing that bullshit?

What about this bullshit?

"As you can possibly see, I have an injury myself -- not here at the hospital, but in combat with a cedar. I eventually won. The cedar gave me a little scratch. As a matter of fact, the Colonel asked if I needed first aid when she first saw me. I was able to avoid any major surgical operations here, but thanks for your compassion, Colonel." --George W. Bush, after visiting with wounded veterans from the Amputee Care Center of Brooke Army Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas, Jan. 1, 2006

459

placeholder Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:29:08pm

I think this entire situation is less about race and more about status. It is about an incredibly established personality, who resented the idea of being questioned by a police officer, and a police officer who didn't like getting quite that much pushback. As I've commented before - I know a lot of cops, and you can get away with a lot. What they choose to enforce in these situations is very subjective. I think a few things really stand out in this though:

1) The idea that Gates resented having to deal with cops is just plain classism - not racism. He didn't feel like having to answer the questions, and frankly this just isn't reasonable. If you look like you are breaking into a house, black or white, you need to address it. Don't forget - the neighbor called it in - the cops weren't just cruising by and decided to do a stop and frisk. The cop absolutely had to check this out, and he asked all the right questions...however...

2) I don't think they should have arrested him. Especially after he showed ID. Cops have a lot of leeway in these situations, and the man was obviously not a threat. They should have simply walked away instead of luring him out of his house to make an arrest (a legal requirement btw)

We live (at least some of us) with the silly notion that we are all equal. Its a nice concept - but its not the truth. Some of us think we should be treated differently because of our status, and cops certainly behave differently with different types of citizens. Its a an indisputable fact. Unfortunately, this situation highlighted that in all its unpleasant glory. Nobody would be talking about this if this was a white redneck in a trailer in kentucky, or a brother dressed as a gangbanger in the projects. Certainly not professor gates...

-PH

460

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:30:45pm

re: #457 JustMyView

You know, Gen. Petraeus said almost exactly the same thing about Iraq.

Not to mention George W. Bush:

"I fully understand those who say you can't win this thing militarily. That's exactly what the United States military says, that you can't win this militarily." --George W. Bush, on the need for political progress in Iraq, Washington, D.C., Oct. 17, 2007

461

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:31:04pm

re: #430 Fenway_Nation

Just curious...what about Barry's certainty about this situation that he expressed to the nation the other night...even after admitting he was biased and didn't have all the facts? Where exactly does that rate in your book?

I think his remarks were unfortunate, as he has acknowledged.

462

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:31:27pm

re: #438 JustMyView

Come now. Crowley is 42 years old, apparently in good physical health, and, as much as I can judge from TV, a fairly big man. He was also carrying a gun. Gates is 58, 5'7", 150 lbs., and partially disabled. He was unarmed. If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

Bingo... and Crowley was already leaving.

463

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:32:44pm

re: #461 JustMyView

I think his remarks were unfortunate, as he has acknowledged.

Unfortunate?
Thats the last word from thousands that should be used.

464

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:33:11pm

re: #459 placeholder

They should have simply walked away instead of luring him out of his house to make an arrest (a legal requirement btw)

Gates did not leave his house. He was arrested on his porch. The police report is very clear about that.

465

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:33:27pm

re: #458 ShanghaiEd

Riiight...we're so much better off with a CinC who blew off a bunch of wounded vets recuperating in Germany because he couldn't bring his press contingent as part of his 'Aren't I Wonderful?' world tour- right?

466

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:34:06pm

re: #464 Buck

Gates did not leave his house. He was arrested on his porch. The police report is very clear about that.

My porch is outside of my house.

467

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:34:23pm

re: #457 JustMyView

You know, Gen. Petraeus said almost exactly the same thing about Iraq.

Obama's frantically looking for the exit door to Afghanistan, run away, no surprise there.

/my main point in posting that was that, as a "student of history", blurting out that Hirohito surrendered to MacArthur is woefully ignorant

468

Buck Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:34:54pm

re: #466 DEZes

My porch is outside of my house.

Legally it is still your property... and by extension your house.

469

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:35:37pm

re: #466 DEZes

My porch is outside of my house.

/what are you, an architect?

470

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:35:40pm

re: #465 Fenway_Nation

Riiight...we're so much better off with a CinC who blew off a bunch of wounded vets recuperating in Germany because he couldn't bring his press contingent as part of his 'Aren't I Wonderful?' world tour- right?

I didn't say that, Fenway. Totally different subject.

If President Obama had met with amputees and joked about a scratch he got from a cedar tree, would you have thought it was funny or not?

471

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:36:08pm

re: #468 Buck

Legally it is still your property... and by extension your house.

My yard is also my property and an extension as well.

Gates gets no pass on this.

472

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:36:29pm

re: #469 Killian Bundy

/what are you, an architect?

Just funny that way. ;)

473

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:36:40pm

re: #439 jaunte

I think you have that ego judgment backwards.

No, I would agree that Gates's ego was threatened too. I think these are both men who are accustomed to being treated with deference. When that didn't happen, things got out of hand.

474

Racer X Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:37:20pm

I see our resident lefty apologists are coming out to deflect and move the goal posts.

Gates was wrong.
Obama was wrong to jump in.
Crowley was doing his job. There is no evidence whatsoever that he broke the law or deviated from his department's policy.

Is it that hard to admit?

475

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:37:43pm

re: #473 JustMyView

I expect better judgment from a Harvard professor.

476

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:38:03pm

re: #471 DEZes

My yard is also my property and an extension as well.

Gates gets no pass on this.

/no, seriously, you can stand naked at the edge of your property line and masturbate and there ain't a damn thing the coppers can do about it

477

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:38:18pm

re: #474 Racer X

I see our resident lefty apologists are coming out to deflect and move the goal posts.

Gates was wrong.
Obama was wrong to jump in.
Crowley was doing his job. There is no evidence whatsoever that he broke the law or deviated from his department's policy.

Is it that hard to admit?

It must be painful to admit
/

478

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:38:21pm

re: #470 ShanghaiEd

I'm still waiting for 0bama to take up that one kid from Michigan who bowls in the Special Olympics on his challenge.

479

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:39:02pm

re: #476 Killian Bundy

/no, seriously, you can stand naked at the edge of your property line and masturbate and there ain't a damn thing the coppers can do about it

Be right back, I gotta try something. ;)

480

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:39:20pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Flippin' brilliant.

481

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:39:58pm

re: #478 Fenway_Nation

I'm still waiting for 0bama to take up that one kid from Michigan who bowls in the Special Olympics on his challenge.

Totally different subject, Fenway. I asked you a simple question, and you choose not to answer.

482

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:42:03pm

re: #459 placeholder

I think this entire situation is less about race and more about status. It is about an incredibly established personality, who resented the idea of being questioned by a police officer, and a police officer who didn't like getting quite that much pushback. As I've commented before - I know a lot of cops, and you can get away with a lot. What they choose to enforce in these situations is very subjective. I think a few things really stand out in this though:

1) The idea that Gates resented having to deal with cops is just plain classism - not racism. He didn't feel like having to answer the questions, and frankly this just isn't reasonable. If you look like you are breaking into a house, black or white, you need to address it. Don't forget - the neighbor called it in - the cops weren't just cruising by and decided to do a stop and frisk. The cop absolutely had to check this out, and he asked all the right questions...however...

2) I don't think they should have arrested him. Especially after he showed ID. Cops have a lot of leeway in these situations, and the man was obviously not a threat. They should have simply walked away instead of luring him out of his house to make an arrest (a legal requirement btw)

We live (at least some of us) with the silly notion that we are all equal. Its a nice concept - but its not the truth. Some of us think we should be treated differently because of our status, and cops certainly behave differently with different types of citizens. Its a an indisputable fact. Unfortunately, this situation highlighted that in all its unpleasant glory. Nobody would be talking about this if this was a white redneck in a trailer in kentucky, or a brother dressed as a gangbanger in the projects. Certainly not professor gates...

-PH

Interesting how excuses continue to be made for Gates that it was classism not racism. Except he squealed that it WAS racism and Gates certainly proved that he has no class. He continued to yell Crowley WAS racist and that this is what happens to black men in America. Never mind a black cop was 5 feet away. And they wouldn't have arrested him after he showed ID if he hadn't lost his mind and kept screaming racism and demanding the officer's ID and name when he had been provided with it multiple times.

Is this a teachable moment? It sure is. It shows racism goes both ways.

I think the tapes should be released to put an end to this. I think it would shut Gates up, and if they show something else it will shut me up.

483

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:42:08pm

Oh...and for the record, I was born in a western New England college town. There always seemed to be a sort of disconnect between the students and faculty and the 'townies'...

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this Gates/Crowley affair turned out to be more about class than race.

484

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:44:29pm

Once Crowley was inside, he was legally entitled to search the entire house under an officer safety exception.

/but he didn't

485

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:45:58pm

re: #475 jaunte

I expect better judgment from a Harvard professor.

Me too. And from veteran police officers who claim special expertise in handling racially sensitive situations.

486

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:46:25pm

re: #481 ShanghaiEd

Sorry- I didn't know I was supposed to go after your strawman guns a blazin'...

It could be the Special Olympics, Afghanistan, almost double-digit inflation, health insurance or making vets pay out-of-pocket for service related injuries. If 0bama brings it up, frankly I'd be amazed if he didn't step in it- no matter what the topic.

487

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:47:29pm

re: #432 Throbert McGee

I certainly don't endorse absolutely everything Rock has ever said on race-relation issues, but to his vast credit, he has famously little patience for self-excusing black victimhood hustlers.

Just to expand on this:

First, it may shock some to learn this, but I am a homo. (Apologies to anyone who just did a coffee spit-take all over your monitor; I probably should've gently dropped a few hints much sooner.)

And one of the reasons I love Rock, despite whatever political feet of clay he may have, is that as some of you have possibly deduced, I myself have no patience for self-excusing GAY victimhood hustlers. (Someday I might even attempt writing a "Gay Folks vs. Faggots" essay, in homage to one of Rock's best-known comedy routines.)

But anyway, Prof. Gates nonsense has reminded me of wise words I read in college before I even came out, written by a gay essayist whose name I can't recall. (It might have been Andrew Sullivan himself, before he went totally batshit.) Anyway, the gist of the essay was:

As a gay man in 1990s America, I'm not oppressed; I'm inconvenienced. People need to stop cheapening useful words like "oppression" through sloppy overuse.

The whole essay was an expansion on that theme, but these two paraphrased-from-memory sentences will suffice. And obviously you can substitute pretty much any American demographic for "gay man," or for that matter replace "America" with the "UK" or a select handful of other countries.

488

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:48:06pm

re: #485 JustMyView

I believe the officer went by the book in this case.

489

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:48:09pm

re: #483 Fenway_Nation

Oh...and for the record, I was born in a western New England college town. There always seemed to be a sort of disconnect between the students and faculty and the 'townies'...

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this Gates/Crowley affair turned out to be more about class than race.

Explain why Gates yelled racism then.

490

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:49:36pm

re: #485 JustMyView

Me too. And from veteran police officers who claim special expertise in handling racially sensitive situations.

Obtuse.

491

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:49:41pm

492

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:50:09pm

re: #486 Fenway_Nation

Sorry- I didn't know I was supposed to go after your strawman guns a blazin'...

It could be the Special Olympics, Afghanistan, almost double-digit inflation, health insurance or making vets pay out-of-pocket for service related injuries. If 0bama brings it up, frankly I'd be amazed if he didn't step in it- no matter what the topic.

GWB is a strawman? How?

How about this: All presidents say a bunch of stupid crap. Bush said some stupid crap, too. Why is that so hard to acknowledge?

I'm pissed equally, right now, at the Democrats and at the GOP. But you can't get an accurate view of what's going on in the country if you automatically canonize GOP politicians and automatically demonize Democratic politicians. It's a double standard, and it's wrong. That's my point.

493

pink freud Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:50:33pm

re: #487 Throbert McGee

Well done, Throbert McGee.

494

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:53:35pm

re: #487 Throbert McGee

The whole essay was an expansion on that theme, but these two paraphrased-from-memory sentences will suffice. And obviously you can substitute pretty much any American demographic for "gay man," or for that matter replace "America" with the "UK" or a select handful of other countries.

So, basically, Matthew Shepard suffered from enhanced inconvenience techniques?

495

JustMyView Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:54:18pm

re: #488 jaunte

I believe the officer went by the book in this case.

Well, as others have pointed out, Crowley had some discretion. I don't think things had to get to this point, but, as I've said, neither Crowley, nor Gates, nor Obama covered himself in glory in this incident.

Gotta run now. Thanks for the discussion.

496

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:54:40pm

re: #494 ShanghaiEd

So, basically, Matthew Shepard suffered from enhanced inconvenience techniques?

He was murdered.

/that about covers it

497

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:55:36pm

re: #496 Killian Bundy

He was murdered.

/that about covers it

Well, at least he wasn't oppressed.
/

498

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:55:58pm

re: #489 kansas

Explain why Gates yelled racism then.

"Who does this fucking stupid townie pig think he is? I'll show him..."

Since Gates was trying to play Deana-fucking-Troi (as Thorbert so succinctly put it) and come up with a 'narrative', I might as well give it a shot/

499

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:56:02pm

re: #486 Fenway_Nation

Sorry- I didn't know I was supposed to go after your strawman guns a blazin'...

It could be the Special Olympics, Afghanistan, almost double-digit inflation, health insurance or making vets pay out-of-pocket for service related injuries. If 0bama brings it up, frankly I'd be amazed if he didn't step in it- no matter what the topic.

Looks like you are never gonna be amazed cause Obama doesn't seem to let his admitted ignorance of facts get in the way of his prejudgment on issues.

500

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:57:01pm

re: #489 kansas

Explain why Gates yelled racism then.

Or Obama's comments for that matter.

501

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 6:58:12pm

re: #491 MikeySDCA

re: #495 JustMyView

I think even Harvard professors should be aware of the maxim:
"Don't start nothing, won't be nothing."

502

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:00:36pm

re: #498 Fenway_Nation

"Who does this fucking stupid townie pig think he is? I'll show him..."

Since Gates was trying to play Deana-fucking-Troi (as Thorbert so succinctly put it) and come up with a 'narrative', I might as well give it a shot/

If that was the case he would have called him a pig and not accused him of racism. Gates saw the issue in racial terms. The white and black officers on the scene did not. Gates behaved badly. Crowley did not. Obama made up his mind before he had the facts. He admitted that. Not such a good move for a POTUS. Never heard GWB say, "I don't know anything about this, but here is my opinion on it." That seems to be Obama's SOP.

503

DEZes Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:01:25pm

Note to officers, the next time Gates House maybe being broken into.
Ignore the call.
/half kidding.

504

sjm_888 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:02:01pm

I hope Crowley refuses the invite and leaves the incident where it's at; as a stain on Zero and Gates's reputation.

Crowley the Cop meet Joe the Plumber. Two regular guys doing their work - getting called out by the candidate, then President. Whose next?

505

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:03:38pm

re: #504 sjm_888

I hope Crowley refuses the invite and leaves the incident where it's at; as a stain on Zero and Gates's reputation.

Crowley the Cop meet Joe the Plumber. Two regular guys doing their work - getting called out by the candidate, then President. Whose next?

Crowley seems like such a pro, I bet he sees this as a teachable moment to teach about perceiving racism where there is none.

506

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:03:48pm

507

placeholder Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:09:07pm

re: #482 kansas

Interesting how excuses continue to be made for Gates that it was classism not racism. Except he squealed that it WAS racism and Gates certainly proved that he has no class. He continued to yell Crowley WAS racist and that this is what happens to black men in America. Never mind a black cop was 5 feet away. And they wouldn't have arrested him after he showed ID if he hadn't lost his mind and kept screaming racism and demanding the officer's ID and name when he had been provided with it multiple times.

Is this a teachable moment? It sure is. It shows racism goes both ways.

I think the tapes should be released to put an end to this. I think it would shut Gates up, and if they show something else it will shut me up.

I'm not making excuses for him - I don't think classism is particularly better than racism. In fact, I think it is much more prevalent, and much more corrosive. I'm also not debating what Gates said or that he claimed it was racism. I'm just saying that in my opinion... the nerve that was really touched was classist... what is owed people who have achieved a certain level of achievement in the US.

-PH

508

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:10:18pm

509

solomonpanting Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:10:53pm

re: #494 ShanghaiEd

So, basically, Matthew Shepard suffered from enhanced inconvenience techniques?

No, but as Killian Bundy said, he was murdered. And some women are murdered after they're raped. Are women generally oppressed? You are going to take what must be the most well-publicized story of a gay man murdered for who he was and and use it to dismiss what Throbert McGee said, rather than to show it as an exception of his generalization?

510

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:11:01pm

re: #506 Killian Bundy

/if I bury an axe in your head is that a hate crime?

Depends on your motivation.

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.

If you axed my head at random, or to get the $20 I carry in my wallet, no.

If you axed my head to send a signal to other loony leftists that it's not all right to mouth off on LGF, yes.

The difference is clear enough, to me.

511

jaunte Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:11:16pm

re: #508 MikeySDCA

Stop! All my illusions are being shattered!

512

sjm_888 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:12:27pm

re: #505 kansas

Agree, Crowley seems like the real deal.

The lesson here shouldn't be taught by Crowley, but by Gates himself. Gates should come out, say he screwed up, don't disrespect the police. Have that talk to the black community. As for Barry, you can't fix stupid.

513

poteen Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:12:29pm

re: #504 sjm_888

He needs to go. He's the trained expert. Obama and Gates are in need of one of Crowley's 'teachable moments'.

/ Unless they charge him for his beer.
In that case fukkem.

514

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:13:31pm

re: #507 placeholder

Interesting, I see that point. Looks like Gates might have heard the tapes though. He is softening his stance. [Link: apnews.myway.com...]

515

pianobuff Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:14:50pm

re: #507 placeholder

I'm not making excuses for him - I don't think classism is particularly better than racism. In fact, I think it is much more prevalent, and much more corrosive. I'm also not debating what Gates said or that he claimed it was racism. I'm just saying that in my opinion... the nerve that was really touched was classist... what is owed people who have achieved a certain level of achievement in the US.

-PH

I think it's some of each.

- Calls Crowley a racist (race card)
- Tells Crowley he doesn't know who he's dealing with (class card)

Depending on who is making the point and what his/her point is one gets emphasized over the other.

One thing is clear to me. Gates continuing to characterize this as a race issue demeans the real race issues that exist and real victims of racism.

516

kansas Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:15:27pm

Got a new Weber Smoky Mountain today. Gonna read up on it. Later gators. Better stop before I turn stupid. Have had a run of not stupid.

517

placeholder Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:16:34pm

re: #474 Racer X

I see our resident lefty apologists are coming out to deflect and move the goal posts.

Gates was wrong.
Obama was wrong to jump in.
Crowley was doing his job. There is no evidence whatsoever that he broke the law or deviated from his department's policy.

Is it that hard to admit?

Nope - not hard to admit. I agree with 1 and 2. I don't completely agree with 3. The part of his job that he did was very subjective. He was not locked into a course of action, and the decisions he made - much like the decisions Gates made exacerbated the situation.

BTW - i'm not too liberal, but I don't understand why true conservatives are not more riled up by this. This is a classic police overreach - arresting someone on their own property after they have proven their right to belong there. I simply do not believe his behavior reached the point of arrest-worthy. In these situations I would expect the police to be a little more understanding of why a homeowner may be agitated about having to prove that he owns his own house.

-PH

518

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:17:50pm

re: #510 ShanghaiEd

Depends on your motivation.

Why is that relevamt? Murderers have all sorts of motivation.

/murder is already the biggest ass felony there is, doesn't need PC "improvement" IMO

519

Fenway_Nation Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:18:23pm

re: #482 kansas

I'm not sure how class-ism is any better than racism, but I think in this case the two may not be mutually exclusive for Prof. ~~Urkel~~ Gates. Go through some of my earlier threads...I'm just about the last person in the world who's willing to give ~~Urkel~~ Gates the benefit of the doubt given the way he's conducted himself...

520

HelloDare Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:18:58pm

re: #438 JustMyView

If anything about Crowley was threatened, it was his ego.

Now you're just making stuff up.

521

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:19:20pm

re: #509 solomonpanting

No, but as Killian Bundy said, he was murdered. And some women are murdered after they're raped. Are women generally oppressed? You are going to take what must be the most well-publicized story of a gay man murdered for who he was and and use it to dismiss what Throbert McGee said, rather than to show it as an exception of his generalization?

I'm not "dismissing" what Throbert said. I'm taking issue with what Andrew Sullivan said. I think Sullivan generalizes too widely from his own privileged experience and misses the bigger picture.

Just because mistreatment of blacks in the U.S. these days doesn't match the horrendous levels during slavery is no reason to say that oppression has been reduced to "inconvenience." Oppression is not a toggle switch of "on" or "off."

And just because gay people in America are not all typically treated as badly as gay people in, say, Iran, that doesn't mean that gay people in the U.S. ought to count their blessings and shut the hell up. To me, that's patronizing to an offensive degree, whatever minority it's said of. America is better than that.

522

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:23:01pm

re: #518 Killian Bundy

Why is that relevamt? Murderers have all sorts of motivation.

/murder is already the biggest ass felony there is, doesn't need PC "improvement" IMO

It's relevant because it's the law. Isn't it? Hasn't the legal system always taken into account mitigating factors and aggravating factors?

You can say it shouldn't. I can say it should. But both of us are irrelevant, because it does.

What about the man who murdered Dr. Tiller? Do you think he should be charged under federal terrorism statues?

I do. The reason? His motivation.

523

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:23:45pm

524

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:24:08pm

PIMF. 3rd paragraph of my 522 should read "statutes," not statues.

525

placeholder Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:25:04pm

re: #515 pianobuff

One thing is clear to me. Gates continuing to characterize this as a race issue demeans the real race issues that exist and real victims of racism.

Completely agree. I think its truly pathetic is the blatant hypocrisy of using this as a "teaching moment." Really? You needed it to happen to YOU to know a problem existed? In this way - he becomes the classic liberal white professor who teaches based on inference and stereotype - instead of experience and knowledge. A professor who savages authority - glorifies the gangster culture - and then briskly crosses the street when he sees a few young black men walking down it.

-PH

526

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:26:53pm

re: #517 placeholder

Nope - not hard to admit. I agree with 1 and 2. I don't completely agree with 3. The part of his job that he did was very subjective. He was not locked into a course of action, and the decisions he made - much like the decisions Gates made exacerbated the situation.

BTW - i'm not too liberal, but I don't understand why true conservatives are not more riled up by this. This is a classic police overreach - arresting someone on their own property after they have proven their right to belong there. I simply do not believe his behavior reached the point of arrest-worthy. In these situations I would expect the police to be a little more understanding of why a homeowner may be agitated about having to prove that he owns his own house.

-PH

Amen. I couldn't have said it better.

527

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:27:20pm

re: #522 ShanghaiEd

What about the man who murdered Dr. Tiller? Do you think he should be charged under federal terrorism statues?

I do. The reason? His motivation.

No, he should be prosecuted under applicable state law. How long past life can you lock him up for?

/and there's no general Federal death penalty either

528

sjm_888 Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:28:56pm

re: #514 kansas

Heard the tapes? I don't think he needs to hear the tape because, after all, he made the tape.

529

ShanghaiEd Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:34:40pm

re: #527 Killian Bundy

No, he should be prosecuted under applicable state law. How long past life can you lock him up for?

/and there's no general Federal death penalty either

OK, so you and I clearly disagree on this particular issue. Let's move onward.

530

[deleted] Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:34:50pm

531

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:37:46pm

re: #522 ShanghaiEd

It's relevant because it's the law. Isn't it? Hasn't the legal system always taken into account mitigating factors and aggravating factors?

That's standard practice in a sentencing hearing, already factored in.

/sorry, you're going to have to show me that hate crimes legislation deters much of anything, the criminal code doesn't need them

532

Killian Bundy Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:39:19pm

re: #529 ShanghaiEd

OK, so you and I clearly disagree on this particular issue. Let's move onward.

/fair enough

533

Born Again Republican Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:40:35pm

re: #528 sjm_888

Heard the tapes? I don't think he needs to hear the tape because, after all, he made the tape.

When your trying to justify your actions you think you said one thing but listening to a tape makes it clear what you really said and how you said it and everyone one else will be clear too.

534

wee fury Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:49:27pm

Wouldn't it be fun if they guzzle a couple of cases of beer and do an interview with Greta -- and the 3 guys all maudlin, sentimental and huggy -- and they show their newly etched scars where they became blood brothers? Fun times.

535

a5minmajor Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:55:03pm

I hate academics...their completely unjustified arrogance annoys the shit out of me, and this is about as arrogant and self-indulgent as it gets.
[Link: apnews.myway.com...]
That smug, 'I hope everyone learns from this' message makes me want to beat the shit out of someone.

and reference the last paragraph, If this incident lead to significantly less professional victimization, ..what a wonderful world this would be.

536

a5minmajor Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:56:16pm

re: #534 wee fury
like the scene in Jaws when they're all 'faced' oln the boat, and they start singing? That WOULD rock. I'd pay ta see that!

537

wee fury Sat, Jul 25, 2009 7:59:48pm

re: #536 a5minmajor

;-)

538

a5minmajor Sat, Jul 25, 2009 8:11:57pm

re: #537 wee fury

Crowley can be Chief, Gates can be Hooper, and Obama can be Quint.

there's the makin' of a goood cartoon here somewhere...

539

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 8:16:28pm

re: #536 a5minmajor

like the scene in Jaws when they're all 'faced' on the boat, and they start singing?

"Captain Quint, will you be able to catch this giant shark?"

♪♫ Ah will! Ah will! Ah will! Ah will! Ah will... ♪♫

Youtube Video

/SNDT

540

Sharmuta Sat, Jul 25, 2009 8:21:47pm

tedzilla99 - you really think Don Black's not inspiring racism?

541

NukeAtomrod Sat, Jul 25, 2009 8:43:08pm

Such a disgusting, transparently political move. These guys are being invited to the White House to run cover for Obama's flub. Unfortunately, Crowley is trapped. If he declines, for whatever reason, he'll be painted as the racist that Gates was claiming him to be.

Crowley has one last hope... Maybe the White House will be out of Pabst Blue Ribbon.

542

Throbert McGee Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:35:53pm

re: #494 ShanghaiEd

So, basically, Matthew Shepard suffered from enhanced inconvenience techniques?

Matthew Shepard did not in any way deserve to be attacked and left to die by those dirt-bags, but what he "suffered" from, among other things, were:

• Enhanced drooling over rough-trade meth-using "townies" at the bar;
• Enhanced drinking too much on the night he was attacked;
• Enhanced never taking any martial-arts lessons (Because, as the TV jingle went: "When you take Jhoon Rhee self-defense, nobody bothers me!" And that jingle is correct because, paradoxically, diligent martial arts practice can lower your odds of ever actually needing to use martial arts in real life.)
• Enhanced not getting a handgun permit, as any out gay man who's very short, slender, and somewhat effeminate really ought to look into

Furthermore, the American gay male demographic as a whole suffers not only from the last three of those (and sometimes the first point), but also from:

• Enhanced blaming their self-caused problems on other people's homophobia
• Enhanced inability to fucking get over their jocks vs. sissynerds personal traumas from way back in high school
• Enhanced unwillingness to be mean and judgmental about the non-stop glamorization of bareback buttfucking pr0n (or "mainstream" gay pr0n that tries its damnedest to create the appearance of barebacking, though on close inspection the guys are wearing condoms) oftentimes just six feet away from the "Use a Condom Every Time" poster on the pr0n-store wall.

And finally, in the wake of Matthew Shepard's murder, my flawed but deeply beloved American nation suffered from:

• Enhanced transforming of a local tragedy into a big gloopy maudlin media circus -- and I'm looking at YOU, Annie Proulx, you worthless liberal hack scribbler of softcore "bareback" pr0n with a pseudo-masculine tough cowboy veneer, you! (And at you, Peter Yarrow, and at you, Christina Ricci, and at every well-intentioned but D-U-M celeb who contributed their talents to all the many, many Matthew Shepard cash-ins besides Proulx's New Yorker short story and the movie based on it.)

P.S. Have I ever mentioned how thoroughly I dislike that phony-baloney tripe Brokeback Mountain? Although the cinematography was, admittedly, gorgeous, and the two-shirts scene at the end was excellent.

543

Pythagoras Sat, Jul 25, 2009 9:49:29pm

Since Obama has publicly given Crowley credit for the beer idea, I doubt Obama will turn this into an ambush. They should just have a beer and talk about sports. That's the whole idea. If ANYONE mentions anything about an apology, they have no clue.

Obama will have helped undo his goof. He showed some class in acknowledging that it was Crowley's idea. Give him credit for that.

Unless there's a court case to come, the tapes should be released, hopefully with forensic enhancement that allows us to hear Gates in the background. There's no reason to keep any facts from the public. Gawd that'll be fun!

544

el polacko Sun, Jul 26, 2009 12:07:24am

unfortunately, this getting together for a beer thing will be seen as a 'healing moment between the races' when there was nothing racial about the incident in the first place. so, gates and obama 'win'.. ugh.. i need a beer.

545

Dad O' Blondes Sun, Jul 26, 2009 8:15:42am

A beer?

I think that's presumptuous, and even edges up on profiling.

Not all Boston-area cops are Irish -- and not all of them drink beer. I think the beer comment is stereotypical of what some elitists think policemen drink during their off-hours.

Maybe Sgt. Crowley doesn't drink alcohol -- at all.

Why not a scotch, or just a drink, or even a glass on lemonade?

BTW, I have nothing against beer. Beer is food, after all.

546

bobbuck Sun, Jul 26, 2009 8:51:49am

re: #475 jaunte

I expect better judgment from a Harvard professor.

Why? They've exhibited quite a bit of public judgment malfunction.

547

RoyalCanadian Sun, Jul 26, 2009 9:09:35am

With all due respect, if Barack (Janus) Obama is going to try convince law officers that the phrase "the police acted stupidly" is neither prejudicial nor insulting and at the same time put on black face and do the old soft shoe to cater to the black and loony left segments of his voting base, ole two face will need to bring in Canadian beer so everyone involved will actually forget everything that was said.

I will tipple a dram of imported single malt Scotch in honour of the black officer and the black female police superintendent who made their stands on the facts rather than on the colour of their skin. Obviously Obama's dirt digging dogs could not find enough on these two souls to crucify them so they invited the officer Crowley over for a beer.

548

Enkidu90046 Sun, Jul 26, 2009 9:14:07am

It seems to me that the only "racial profiling" going on was by Gates and Obama who assume that a White officer who stops any Black suspect is doing so because of racism.

Funny... Crowley's Black partner who was on the scene with Crowley doesn't seem to think Crowley behaved in any way inappropriately.

This is a "teachable moment," but rather for Gates and Obama.

549

ShanghaiEd Sun, Jul 26, 2009 10:25:48am

re: #542 Throbert McGee

Matthew Shepard did not in any way deserve to be attacked and left to die by those dirt-bags, but what he "suffered" from, among other things, were:

• Enhanced drooling over rough-trade meth-using "townies" at the bar;
• Enhanced drinking too much on the night he was attacked;
• Enhanced never taking any martial-arts lessons (Because, as the TV jingle went: "When you take Jhoon Rhee self-defense, nobody bothers me!" And that jingle is correct because, paradoxically, diligent martial arts practice can lower your odds of ever actually needing to use martial arts in real life.)
• Enhanced not getting a handgun permit, as any out gay man who's very short, slender, and somewhat effeminate really ought to look into

Furthermore, the American gay male demographic as a whole suffers not only from the last three of those (and sometimes the first point), but also from:

• Enhanced blaming their self-caused problems on other people's homophobia
• Enhanced inability to fucking get over their jocks vs. sissynerds personal traumas from way back in high school
• Enhanced unwillingness to be mean and judgmental about the non-stop glamorization of bareback buttfucking pr0n (or "mainstream" gay pr0n that tries its damnedest to create the appearance of barebacking, though on close inspection the guys are wearing condoms) oftentimes just six feet away from the "Use a Condom Every Time" poster on the pr0n-store wall.

And finally, in the wake of Matthew Shepard's murder, my flawed but deeply beloved American nation suffered from:

• Enhanced transforming of a local tragedy into a big gloopy maudlin media circus -- and I'm looking at YOU, Annie Proulx, you worthless liberal hack scribbler of softcore "bareback" pr0n with a pseudo-masculine tough cowboy veneer, you! (And at you, Peter Yarrow, and at you, Christina Ricci, and at every well-intentioned but D-U-M celeb who contributed their talents to all the many, many Matthew Shepard cash-ins besides Proulx's New Yorker short story and the movie based on it.)

P.S. Have I ever mentioned how thoroughly I dislike that phony-baloney tripe Brokeback Mountain? Although the cinematography was, admittedly, gorgeous, and the two-shirts scene at the end was excellent.

Throbert: I hear what you're saying. I don't share your view, but you state it very well.

My problem is that it veers close to "blaming the victim," such as the timeworn ways that, for instance, a woman who wore revealing clothing or walked in the "wrong" part of town was said to be "asking" for rape.

But, I hear what you're saying, and it's much food for thought. Thank you.

550

Enkidu90046 Sun, Jul 26, 2009 1:03:59pm

re: #545 Dad O' Blondes

BTW, I have nothing against beer. Beer is food, after all.

As a devout atheist, I have to say that the strongest hole in my belief system (or lack thereof) and the best proof there is of a loving God is the existence of beer.

551

okiej Sun, Jul 26, 2009 2:51:06pm

Gates' arrest report is a fun read on [Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

Racial profiling indeed. Gates / Barry / Wright. 3 peas in a pod.

552

jaunte Sun, Jul 26, 2009 4:20:50pm

A day ago when commenting here I hadn't read this July 25 Mo Dowd column; she has all the arguments for Gates and against Crowley that have been used in the thread, neatly summarized. Next time an issue arises I will check with the Times to see what points will be made.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

553

Tricky Dick Mon, Jul 27, 2009 10:48:51am

BREITBART: Obama's accidental gift on race

Sgt. Crowley, as it happens, is the Cambridge police force's hand-picked racial profiling expert and was selected by a former black police commissioner. He also performed CPR on black basketball star Reggie Lewis, whose widow praised the public servant for doing everything he could to save her husband. Sgt. Crowley's own police department immediately jumped to his defense in a picture-perfect multiracial photo op and press conference.

554

arf Mon, Jul 27, 2009 8:59:09pm

If you were Crowley, would you accept the invitation?

Spy Mode Auto

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

White House Beer Tastes Better

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud