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288 comments

1 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:21:38am

Well that is how many Museum books are published.

2 DaddyG  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:22:06am

Wow. I wish I could afford to donate $10,000 to any worthy cause. I hope he gets his funding.

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:23:00am

I’m glad that you posted this Charles.
His work is important. I hope he gets many donations.

4 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:23:53am

I think he lives a few blocks away from me. Maybe I could donate some homemade pear chutney.

5 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:24:41am

$1000.00 to steep of a price for me. Joint donation through LGF, perhaps Like was done for Irish Rose?

6 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:25:08am

I can’t wait to read his book.

7 mattm  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:26:32am

I wish I could donate that much to help such a worthy cause.

8 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:26:57am
Everyone who donates a thousand dollars or more for this project will see their name on the Acknowledgements page of my book

Do they have to be *US* dollars?

For instance, I could happily donate a thousand Guayanese dollars…

9 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:28:32am

re: #8 Occasional Reader

Do they have to be *US* dollars?

For instance, I could happily donate a thousand Guayanese dollars…

You’d get more bang for the buck with Zimbabwean dollars. After all, it would look pretty impressive to roll up with a tractor trailer loaded with ‘em.

Downside is being told that your tractor trailer’s worth of dollars is worth less than a US dollar.

10 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:29:08am

And now is the times to get it out.

Conservatives are resuming their historically dominant position atop the New York Times and Amazon.com bestsellers lists

[Link: newsbusters.org…]

11 SlartyBartfast  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:29:24am

I’d stand a better chance if I could “be famous with my spare change.”

Kidding aside, Totten is great and I hope his fund-raising strategy works well for him.

12 yma o hyd  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:29:28am

Sorry - haven’t got the neccessary werewithall to spend on gettin famous - but when/if I win the lottery - could I get the names of my dogs in as well, paying the set price, natch?

13 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:29:40am

While I may not end up in the acknowledgements, I’m sure the book will be a good read.

14 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:30:27am

re: #10 pat

And now is the times to get it out.

Conservatives are resuming their historically dominant position atop the New York Times and Amazon.com bestsellers lists

[Link: newsbusters.org…]


Quick! Alert the Media Diveristy Czar! Something must be done about this! Call Hugo Chavez, he’ll have some ideas.

15 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:31:17am

re: #10 pat

On the other hand…

Glenn Beck’s Common Sense rounding out the top, with Michelle Malkin’s Culture of Corruption coming in a close second. Ron Paul’s End the Fed comes in at number seven

[sigh]

16 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:31:22am

Mr. Totten has consistently provided the most honest and reliable reporting out of the middle east in many years. He is an asset. I am looking forward to his book, I am sure it will be outstanding.

17 Occasional Reader  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:31:29am

Later.

18 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:31:57am

It’s a shame someone like Beck gets a publisher and hits the bestsellers list and Totten is struggling.

19 yma o hyd  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:32:53am

BIAB

20 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:33:20am

re: #18 KenJen

It’s a shame someone like Beck gets a publisher and hits the bestsellers list and Totten is struggling.

You can say that again!

21 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:33:55am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

I think he lives a few blocks away from me. Maybe I could donate some homemade pear chutney.

That is a absolutely fantastic idea. It also sounds delicious.

I love chutney.

22 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:34:05am

re: #14 Occasional Reader

Quick! Alert the Media Diveristy Czar! Something must be done about this! Call Hugo Chavez, he’ll have some ideas.

Or Ray Bradbury.
Of course, he didn’t want that idea carried out.

23 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:34:31am

re: #18 KenJen

It’s a shame someone like Beck gets a publisher and hits the bestsellers list and Totten is struggling.

Like Sharmuta, I thought that needed to be said again.

24 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:34:36am

re: #10 pat

And now is the times to get it out.

Conservatives are resuming their historically dominant position atop the New York Times and Amazon.com bestsellers lists

[Link: newsbusters.org…]

So now we conservatives are “smart”? We read books, right? Isn’t that the liberal litmus test for intelligence? I mean, GWB wasn’t smart ‘cause he didn’t read books, so I figure we must be doin’ pretty good now.///

25 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:36:14am

re: #15 Occasional Reader

What would you know about these thing? You only occasionally read. lol

26 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:36:14am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

I think he lives a few blocks away from me. Maybe I could donate some homemade pear chutney.

Heh… you said “chutney”.

Who thinks a mixture of mango chutney and peanut butter sounds like a good glaze for grilled chicken?

27 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:36:24am
28 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:38:16am

re: #26 eschew_obfuscation

You will need to add chilis to that. Thai Sate with a side of chutney.

29 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:39:38am

I wish I new about this before I went and posted those videos and pictures on the internet.

30 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:40:18am

I’ll be first in line to buy his book, but I can’t afford to be in the book. Got college and high school tuition of about $20 grand due this month, for Things 1 & 2. That’s just the fall deposits.

Totten is a great journalist. I just hope he keeps on living, to do his work. He’s putting himself in harm’s way pretty often these days.

31 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:41:13am

re: #18 KenJen

It’s a shame someone like Beck gets a publisher and hits the bestsellers list and Totten is struggling.

Beck’s book is a bestseller? I didn’t think his fans could read.
Maybe it has a centerfold.

32 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:41:17am

re: #28 pat

You will need to add chilis to that. Thai Sate with a side of chutney.

Ooooh… that sounds interesting! Are those the dark red ones?

33 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:41:40am

re: #31 Kosh’s Shadow

Beck’s book is a bestseller? I didn’t think his fans could read.
Maybe it has a centerfold.

*shudder*

Brain bleach, please.

34 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:42:10am

I will not subscribe if I’ve got to put up with freakin’ Pay Pal.

I will give one time payments, and that’s it. I got more phishing emails when I had a pay pal account than I really care to think about. This says to me that they’re not secure. I won’t have an account.

35 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:42:12am

re: #31 Kosh’s Shadow

Beck’s book is a bestseller? I didn’t think his fans could read.
Maybe it has a centerfold.

*whackwhackwhack*

36 itellu3times  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:42:24am

Um, isn’t this a bit … odd? Surely real publishers would be interested in his book and be willing to advance him some serious bucks. Even if this is a first book, as a journalist he wouldn’t be treated as a pure noob. Does he have an agent? Should he?

37 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:42:39am

Hatemonger Disrupts First Court Appearance

James von Brunn appeared in public for the first time since the June shooting while making the appearance in U.S. District Court in Washington, and he made sure his voice was heard.

“Your honor!” von Brunn said from a wheelchair while the topic of a psychological exam was being discussed in the courtroom.

The judge advised the 89-year-old suspected shooter not to speak, but von Brunn blurted out, “Your constitution guarantees me a speedy and fair trial.”

He also said, “As a United States citizen and a Naval officer, I am sworn to protect my country. I take my vows very seriously.”

38 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:42:42am

re: #31 Kosh’s Shadow

Beck’s book is a bestseller? I didn’t think his fans could read.
Maybe it has a centerfold.

Ugh. Brain bleach needed stat!

39 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:43:03am

I need way more coffee.

40 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:43:53am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dreadful man.

41 BlueCanuck  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:44:13am

re: #34 Dianna

I will not subscribe if I’ve got to put up with freakin’ Pay Pal.

I will give one time payments, and that’s it. I got more phishing emails when I had a pay pal account than I really care to think about. This says to me that they’re not secure. I won’t have an account.

Believe it or not I used to get phishing e-mails for my e-bay and paypal accounts. Two years plus ago. I only got a paypal account this year.

42 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:44:47am

re: #32 eschew_obfuscation

The Thai use the dried bird chilis (wild thai chilis) which are indeed dark, long and sharp. Chopped with some long ones left in for artistic presentation.

43 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:44:55am

re: #34 Dianna

I will not subscribe if I’ve got to put up with freakin’ Pay Pal.

I will give one time payments, and that’s it. I got more phishing emails when I had a pay pal account than I really care to think about. This says to me that they’re not secure. I won’t have an account.

Really? I’ve been using Paypal for years, without any problems. My wife has a little side-job, selling stuff on Ebay, and she uses it all the time. A couple of times she’s had disputes with customers, and Paypal was only marginally helpful, but the real problems came from internet con artists, not Paypal itself.

44 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:46:04am

re: #30 garycooper

You’re back.

45 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:46:17am

re: #40 Dianna

Dreadful man.

I hope he ends up in General Population.

46 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:46:41am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatemonger Disrupts First Court Appearance

I am sure there is nothing the oath a Naval officer takes that says anything about being a POS racist asshole. I hope this guy fries…or, even better, they lock him up with “Bubba” the lonely inmate for eternity.

47 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:46:55am

re: #34 Dianna

I will not subscribe if I’ve got to put up with freakin’ Pay Pal.

I will give one time payments, and that’s it. I got more phishing emails when I had a pay pal account than I really care to think about. This says to me that they’re not secure. I won’t have an account.

The last Paypal phish my wife got was to a different email address than the one she has for her Paypal account, and it was very interesting. I never did figure out how it works, but the fact that it was sent to her as an html attachment, and to an email address not registered with paypal, showed it was a phish. (There were a lot of urls, all to Paypal domains, and some code that did the dirty work. Maybe someday, if I had the time, I’d set up a virtual machine, test stuff like this (while disconnected from the network), find out what it was doing, and then restore the VM to its state before the test.)

48 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:47:17am

re: #36 itellu3times

Um, isn’t this a bit … odd? Surely real publishers would be interested in his book and be willing to advance him some serious bucks. Even if this is a first book, as a journalist he wouldn’t be treated as a pure noob. Does he have an agent? Should he?

It’s amazing how difficult it is to get a book published these days, if you aren’t a known quantity, a celeb, or working in a field of guaranteed bestsellers, like diet, fitness, finance, etc.

Even so, you would think Totten’s work would be too important and timely to ignore, for some relevant publishing house.

49 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:47:27am

re: #32 eschew_obfuscation

here is one recipe: Thai Peanut Sauce
[Link: allrecipes.com…]

50 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:47:32am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatemonger Disrupts First Court Appearance

I do hope he gets a speedy trial. It will speed up his date with old sparky.

51 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:47:54am

re: #34 Dianna

Nope. It means that everyone and their mother is trying to make money because PayPal is successful. It’s the same with the various scammers trying to get accounts from ebay or amazon.com. The phishing doesn’t indicate anything about the security of paypal or ebay or any of the others targeted.

52 doppelganglander  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:48:10am

re: #26 eschew_obfuscation

Heh… you said “chutney”.

Who thinks a mixture of mango chutney and peanut butter sounds like a good glaze for grilled chicken?

Either one, but not both together.

53 leftover54  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:49:23am

OT - yet relevant I think…

The Firefox browser has an add on/extension available called ‘Cool Previews’. Its a link viewer - put your cursor anywhere over a link and the page pops up - no clicking, using the back button etc. Moving the cursor off the margin of the linked page and it disappears - the original page still displayed. Sorry, I can’t explain/describe stuff worth a sh*t anymore…anyhow, if you use Firefox and get frustrated with the time you waste clicking on bogus links, this little program (?) is invaluable.Fast, fast, fast. And you can tailor it to work in several different ways. I LOVE it ! Can’t imagine browsing with out it.

As typical for me I was posting on a dead thread I didn’t realize was dead until rigomortis set in.The above is what I posted there a few minutes ago. A universal, one size fits all kinda post. If you’ve never tried it you won’t be sorry ! Very stable too,

54 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:49:34am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatemonger Disrupts First Court Appearance

“Your Constitution”?

What nation does he think he’s in?

55 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:49:52am

re: #44 MandyManners

You’re back.

Back in black
I hit the sack
I’ve been too long I’m glad to be back.

(I’ll be good now. I promise!)

56 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:50:00am

re: #54 MandyManners

“Your Constitution”?

What nation does he think he’s in?

Obviously a nation where the rules don’t apply to him.

57 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:50:24am

I hope I get a cool power…flying or turning invisible or flames shooting out of my…?

We are all mutants say scientists

58 jcm  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:51:13am

re: #35 MandyManners

*whackwhackwhack*

That’s what centerfolds are for…

59 Danny  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:51:17am

re: #57 Desert Dog

404

60 HoosierHoops  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:51:30am

re: #57 Desert Dog


I hope I get a cool power…flying or turning invisible or flames shooting out of my…?

We are all mutants say scientists

linky no workie

61 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:51:49am

Oh- I left a comment at Totten’s blog wishing him good luck. Truly wish I could help him right now, but I will send enough for a good bottle of his bubbly of choice when the book is released for him to celebrate.

62 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:52:40am

Dryer buzzard.

63 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:52:44am

Totten’s report last week from Lybia is pretty cool…
In the Land of the Brother Leader

64 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:52:47am

buzzer

65 doppelganglander  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:52:49am

re: #57 Desert Dog

I hope I get a cool power…flying or turning invisible or flames shooting out of my…?

We are all mutants say scientists

Linky is broken. But isn’t it obvious we’re all mutants? How else does evolution happen?

66 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:52:54am

re: #50 KenJen

I do hope he gets a speedy trial. It will speed up his date with old sparky.

von Brunn should watch out when he’s in the shower.
At least, here, the problem will be Bubba, not poison gas.

67 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:52:59am

Jill Sobule was able to fund a cd (I think her latest) with a similar plan. Fans donated money to her through a website and got credited on the album.

68 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:53:02am

re: #49 pat

here is one recipe: Thai Peanut Sauce
[Link: allrecipes.com…]

Thanks! I’ll give it a try.

69 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:53:02am

re: #57 Desert Dog

I hope I get a cool power…flying or turning invisible or flames shooting out of my…?

We are all mutants say scientists


[Link: news.bbc.co.uk…]

70 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:53:38am

re: #54 MandyManners

“Your Constitution”?

What nation does he think he’s in?

He’d be happier in Nazi Germany.

71 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:54:14am

re: #31 Kosh’s Shadow

Beck’s book is a bestseller? I didn’t think his fans could read.
Maybe it has a centerfold.

A popup book.

72 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:54:21am

re: #65 doppelganglander

Linky is broken. But isn’t it obvious we’re all mutants? How else does evolution happen?

Some more so than others :-)

73 blangwort  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:55:37am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatemonger Disrupts First Court Appearance

Some patriot he is. He shot and killed a guard at a public museum. Given half a chance, he’s going to turn the courtroom in to a stage performance of an idiot.

At his age, I hope they sentence him to life in jail. It would save us all a lot of court room time and angst.

74 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:55:52am

re: #71 Alouette

A popup book.

Okay. There goes lunch.

75 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:56:19am

re: #70 Kosh’s Shadow

He’d be happier in Nazi Germany.

He’s a Twoofer. In Nazi Germany, he’d be one of the first up against the wall for contradicting the government line.

76 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:56:49am

re: #51 lawhawk

That’s probably true, but I’ve never had a phishing attempt using my Amazon account.

77 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:57:00am

re: #71 Alouette

A popup book.

Could be worse.

It could be scratch and sniff

78 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:57:07am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Today in 1988 an American street gang was found guilty of conspiring to commit terrorist acts on American soil, funded by Libya.

[Link: tinyurl.com…]

79 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:57:17am

That JayCee Lugar story just gets more and more incredible…and sad. You have to go to the Brit papers to get the real story.

Jaycee Lee Dugard’s daughters Starlite and Angel ‘thought she was their big sister and know nothing of the outside world’

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

80 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:57:23am

re: #73 blangwort

Some patriot he is. He shot and killed a guard at a public museum. Given half a chance, he’s going to turn the courtroom in to a stage performance of an idiot.

At his age, I hope they sentence him to life in jail. It would save us all a lot of court room time and angst.

Just don’t send him to Scotland.

81 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:58:42am

re: #50 KenJen

I do hope he gets a speedy trial. It will speed up his date with old sparky.

The most we can hope for is life in prison, I think. And he’s probably going to die before there’s the slightest hope for execution. Worse, I don’t think anyone uses the electric chair any more.

82 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:59:41am

re: #79 pat

That JayCee Lugar story just gets more and more incredible…and sad. You have to go to the Brit papers to get the real story.

Jaycee Lee Dugard’s daughters Starlite and Angel ‘thought she was their big sister and know nothing of the outside world’

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

The wife is a complete scumball too. Apparently the husband had to go to jail for 5 months for some reason and she kept the girl’s prisoner that whole time for him. Evil bitch.

83 leftover54  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 9:59:55am

re: #34 Dianna

Wow, ok, you’ve got my attention. Is this something you’re quite sure about ? Are you knowledgeable about such things or is it just a suspicion ? That sounded snarky but
I’m asking sincerely…
Any others have same concern ? I know theres a risk in general doing any transaction over the ‘net but I’ve considered it no more riskier than giving my credit card to
some pimple faced kid at the local Home Depot (or flying
for that matter). Geeze, I don’t want to say anymore about my habits but this could …well, I’ll just leave it at that.
Others ??

84 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:00:15am

I can’t afford to donate Mr. Totten, but I’m with you in spirit.

85 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:00:39am

Education in Jersey, yo! You got a problem with that?
New Jersey teacher accused of selling grades for $1,400

86 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:01:01am

re: #78 Mad Al-Jaffee

Wow, I don’t recall ever seeing that one before.

87 blangwort  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:01:09am

re: #80 Kosh’s Shadow

When we say “life sentence” here in the US, we’re not kidding. His son has publicly disowned him.

I hope his jail cell guards are Jews.

88 Danny  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:01:11am

re: #76 Dianna

That’s probably true, but I’ve never had a phishing attempt using my Amazon account.

I have accounts at both Amazon.com and Paypal. I’ve never had a security problem with either, but… Be careful.

[Link: sensorymetrics.com…]

89 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:01:46am

re: #81 Dianna

The most we can hope for is life in prison, I think. And he’s probably going to die before there’s the slightest hope for execution. Worse, I don’t think anyone uses the electric chair any more.

I just hope he doesn’t develop prostate cancer and get let out on “compassionate grounds.”

90 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:01:47am

re: #73 blangwort

Given half a chance, he’s going to turn the courtroom in to a stage performance of an idiot.

“It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

91 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:02:02am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Wow, I don’t recall ever seeing that one before.

I just read about it for the first time today. I think the gang were all radical Amish. Or maybe angry Quakers.

92 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:02:48am

re: #85 Desert Dog

Education in Jersey, yo! You got a problem with that?
New Jersey teacher accused of selling grades for $1,400

Wow, only $1400? They got off cheap… err… uh… what were we talking about?

93 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:02:56am

re: #87 blangwort

My mother volunteers at the museum and knew the guard he killed. I hope he rots in federal prison.

94 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:03:33am

Re: PayPal, I’ve had a small online business for years now and PayPal is all that I use. It’s very reliable, and very dependable. I’ve never had a single problem with it.

95 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:03:39am

Bad news, everybody…It’s good news…
U.S. Economy Gets Lift From Stimulus

Many forecasters say stimulus spending is adding two to three percentage points to economic growth in the second and third quarters, when measured at an annual rate. The impact in the second quarter, calculated by analyzing how the extra funds flowing into the economy boost consumption, investment and spending, helped slow the rate of decline and will lay the groundwork for positive growth in the third quarter — something that seemed almost implausible just a few months ago. Some economists say the 1% contraction in the second quarter would have been far worse, possibly as much as 3.2%, if not for the stimulus.

For the third quarter, economists at Goldman Sachs & Co. predict the U.S. economy will grow by 3.3%. “Without that extra stimulus, we would be somewhere around zero,” said

96 blangwort  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:04:01am

re: #90 John Neverbend

“It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

Too true. I hope his outbursts end quickly with putting him in a room with CCTV where he can scream at the wall.

97 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:05:03am

re: #65 doppelganglander

Linky is broken. But isn’t it obvious we’re all mutants? How else does evolution happen?

By God designing things on purpose.

(j/k!)

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:05:44am

re: #5 Bubblehead II

$1000.00 to steep of a price for me. Joint donation through LGF, perhaps Like was done for Irish Rose?

Yeah, if someone was willing to be treasurer, I bet a mention could be purchased for “Lizards for America” or something.

99 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:05:52am

re: #96 blangwort

Too true. I hope his outbursts end quickly with putting him in a room with CCTV where he can scream at the wall.

I was hoping they end due to him popping a blood vessel and having an embolism.

100 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:06:30am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Bad news, everybody…It’s good news…
U.S. Economy Gets Lift From Stimulus

I live in Michigan. I’ll take all the good news I can get… and if Barack Obama gets the credit for it, then so be it.

101 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:06:39am

re: #83 leftover54

I’m not an expert.

Here’s my story:

I used to have a Paypal account, which I used quite a lot. About four months before I quit using it, I started getting very professional phishing attempts. Unlike the clumsy ones, they were addressed to me, spelling my name correctly (which is more unusual than it is for most people). I never fell for it, but it got to be so frequent that I cancelled the account, and won’t have one. I don’t trust their security, if they get far enough in that they have information enough to construct a good enough phish that it came close to fooling me.

In another story, a credit card number was stolen - but that took place at an actual store, and I’m still royally irritated about it. I’ll never buy glasses from those folks again.

102 zelnaga  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:07:11am

re: #18 KenJen

It’s a shame someone like Beck gets a publisher and hits the bestsellers list and Totten is struggling.

Totten doesn’t have a celebrity status to exploit. Of course, one advantage of that is that if his book becomes popular, he knows he’s done a good job. Beck’s books, in contrast, are popular regardless of how well written they are.

It’s actually kinda ironic… Beck often asks why anyone would work hard when socialism gets you paid the same amount regardless. By that same token, why would Beck write good books when his guarantee of success awards him about the same amount regardless?

103 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:07:42am

re: #91 Mad Al-Jaffee

I just read about it for the first time today. I think the gang were all radical Amish. Or maybe angry Quakers.

Or just simply “youths”.

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:08:59am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatemonger Disrupts First Court Appearance

Hmmm. “your Constitution”, but “my country”.

105 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:09:08am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Bad news, everybody…It’s good news…
U.S. Economy Gets Lift From Stimulus

“Without the extra stimilus, we would be somewhere around zero”-Goldman Sachs. Are they refering to their own company?

106 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:09:29am

re: #87 blangwort

When we say “life sentence” here in the US, we’re not kidding. His son has publicly disowned him.

I hope his jail cell guards are Jews.

He murdered a Black man. I hope his jail cell guards are Black.

107 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:10:02am

U.S. Economy: Companies Cut More Jobs Than Forecast in August

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) — U.S. companies cut more jobs than forecast in August and boosted their workers’ productivity the most since 2003 in the second quarter, signaling employers are seeking to cut costs further even as the economy stabilizes.

A survey by ADP Employer Services showed businesses reduced payrolls by 298,000 after a 360,000 decline in July. The Labor Department in Washington said productivity, a measure of employee output per hour, rose at a 6.6 percent annual rate in the three months through June.

108 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:10:29am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Bad news, everybody…It’s good news…
U.S. Economy Gets Lift From Stimulus

What growth are they talking about?
Still looks negative to me

109 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:10:50am

re: #100 Irish Rose

I live in Michigan. I’ll take all the good news I can get… and if Barack Obama gets the credit for it, then so be it.

Same here. Any good news is good news, no matter who claims credit for it. We here in Michigan been down so goddam long, I think some of us have forgotten what it’s like to be up.

No, I remember 1998…man, my 401k was tearing it up!

110 itellu3times  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:11:01am

re: #48 garycooper

It’s amazing how difficult it is to get a book published these days, if you aren’t a known quantity, a celeb, or working in a field of guaranteed bestsellers, like diet, fitness, finance, etc.

Even so, you would think Totten’s work would be too important and timely to ignore, for some relevant publishing house.

I suppose the problem is that, generally speaking, people don’t read books anymore, especially people under the age of, oh, forty?

No reading, no buying.

Not to even mention the current economy.

Hope he makes a deal with Michael Yon for pics.

111 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:11:26am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Bad news, everybody…It’s good news…
U.S. Economy Gets Lift From Stimulus

The problem is, when the stimulus ends, the economy will either decline or stop growing for a longer period, until the fundamentals change.
Distorting the economy only works as long as the distorting force is acting, and when it is released, it can snap back to where it would have been otherwise.

112 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:11:50am

re: #105 KenJen

“Without the extra stimilus, we would be somewhere around zero”-Goldman Sachs. Are they refering to their own company?

That must be it.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:12:05am

re: #85 Desert Dog

Education in Jersey, yo! You got a problem with that?
New Jersey teacher accused of selling grades for $1,400

I once proposed doing that, but it was part of a lesson about Martin Luther and the sale of indulgences.

114 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:12:06am

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

U.S. Economy: Companies Cut More Jobs Than Forecast in August

That is the real story - unemployment. I laid off two guys in Feb. and they have been unable to find a job. Phoenix is in bad bad shape right now. There is no recovery going on here. It is getting worse.

115 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:12:07am

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm. “your Constitution”, but “my country”.

Yes, the Constitution gives Jews rights along with everyone else.

116 Danny  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:12:08am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Not sure if this is the same Deborah Solomon who wrote that article, but if so, I’d take it with a grain of salt.

117 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:12:12am

re: #105 KenJen

Are they refering to their own company?

I doubt it. Four things that will endure are death, taxes, cockroaches and Goldman Sachs.

118 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:12:56am

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

I once proposed doing that, but it was part of a lesson about Martin Luther and the sale of indulgences.

A lesson on economics as well?

“Kids, this is how capitalism works…”

119 Danny  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:14:35am

re: #116 Danny

Actually, they are not the same people. Ignore my previous post.

120 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:15:38am

re: #117 John Neverbend

I doubt it. Four things that will endure are death, taxes, cockroaches and Goldman Sachs.

Ha. I should have used a sarc tag. I just find it funny that a company that got a butt load of bailout money would make that comment.

121 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:15:45am

re: #109 garycooper

Same here. Any good news is good news, no matter who claims credit for it. We here in Michigan been down so goddam long, I think some of us have forgotten what it’s like to be up.

No, I remember 1998…man, my 401k was tearing it up!

Perhaps you should elect a government free from union control. Might go a long way to renewed prosperity. It’s killing Detroit.

122 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:16:19am

Is anyone else bothered by the slanted reporting at Fox these days?
I used to ignore the liberals who complained about Fox’s bias, because it wasn’t always so obvious.

But lately it seems that they’ve thrown all pretense out the window. A look at the front page on any given day will tell you that they’ve given themselves over to being a propaganda machine for the conservative right, and a fomenter for the crazies among us.

Seriousy, it’s disgusting.

Are there ANY major media outlets who are into objective reporting these days?

123 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:16:31am

OT -

Some people over the last few days have wondered where Steve from New Mexico is?

He just gave me permission to pass on some info, but I will keep it to a minimum to preserve his privacy.

He has spent the last 5 days in the hospital, this was a scheduled procedure, but serious. He is ok in the sense he is not dying, but the procedure does not look like it fix anything.

So there will be a future round in the hospital, which will cause major changes to his lifestyle, but he will still be with us.

He’ll be back when he can, he say’s hi to all. I will repost this occasionally over the next 24 hours in hopes that any Lizard interested will see this.

124 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:16:37am

re: #111 Kosh’s Shadow

The problem is, when the stimulus ends, the economy will either decline or stop growing for a longer period, until the fundamentals change.
Distorting the economy only works as long as the distorting force is acting, and when it is released, it can snap back to where it would have been otherwise.

Stimulating the productive members of society - Private Enterprise - would have done much more than this scatter shot Stimulus package. Cash for clunkers was a temporary illusion. How about slashing taxes and getting out of the way?

125 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:16:54am

re: #85 Desert Dog

Education in Jersey, yo! You got a problem with that?
New Jersey teacher accused of selling grades for $1,400

Another capitalist in NJ. Awesome! I thought Lawhawk and I were the last two…

126 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:17:35am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

OT -

Some people over the last few days have wondered where Steve from New Mexico is?

He just gave me permission to pass on some info, but I will keep it to a minimum to preserve his privacy.

He has spent the last 5 days in the hospital, this was a scheduled procedure, but serious. He is ok in the sense he is not dying, but the procedure does not look like it fix anything.

So there will be a future round in the hospital, which will cause major changes to his lifestyle, but he will still be with us.

He’ll be back when he can, he say’s hi to all. I will repost this occasionally over the next 24 hours in hopes that any Lizard interested will see this.

Wow…tell Steve we miss him and we hope he has a speedy recovery!

127 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:17:41am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

Thanks, Walter.

128 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:18:02am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

OT -

Some people over the last few days have wondered where Steve from New Mexico is?

He just gave me permission to pass on some info, but I will keep it to a minimum to preserve his privacy.

He has spent the last 5 days in the hospital, this was a scheduled procedure, but serious. He is ok in the sense he is not dying, but the procedure does not look like it fix anything.

So there will be a future round in the hospital, which will cause major changes to his lifestyle, but he will still be with us.

He’ll be back when he can, he say’s hi to all. I will repost this occasionally over the next 24 hours in hopes that any Lizard interested will see this.

His screen name here is albqsteve.

129 kcladderman  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #122 Irish Rose

no

130 Sunlight  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:18:34am

I hope he talks to Audible to get an unabridged audio version for my ipod. Hopefully he can read it himself, as Ayaan Hirsi Ali did with her book Infidel. I’ll buy the hard copy also for maps and photos, which I’m sure he’ll have in there. Or maybe there can be a package deal with the download from Audible and a hard copy booklet with just the graphics delivered. If it is anything like his blog posts, I’ll be in hog heaven reading it.

131 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:19:06am

re: #110 itellu3times

Hope he makes a deal with Michael Yon for pics.

Great idea! Except, they probably see each other as rivals, and wouldn’t collaborate. I don’t know, but I’ve known enough journalists by reputation to guess this might be the case.

132 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:19:25am

re: #122 Irish Rose

Is anyone else bothered by the slanted reporting at Fox these days?
I used to ignore the liberals who complained about Fox’s bias, because it wasn’t always so obvious.

But lately it seems that they’ve thrown all pretense out the window. A look at the front page on any given day will tell you that they’ve given themselves over to being a propaganda machine for the conservative right, and a fomenter for the crazies among us.

Seriousy, it’s disgusting.

Are there ANY major media outlets who are into objective reporting these days?

I would say Michael Totten, but he’s not a major media outlet. Sorry can’t help you.

133 pink freud  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:19:51am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

Please give Steve my best, Walter, and thank you for letting us know.

134 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:20:00am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

If it simply shifted sales around, as it likely did for cash for clunkers, then it isn’t the level of good news that you’re looking for - since those figures from 3Q and 4Q 2009 and 1Q 2010 will show that sales were cannibalized to make one quarter look that much better.

As for real estate sales, the possibility that the tax credit will spur another inflated market is a possibility given that the real estate markets were overheated in the first place because of easy money for buyers, and the demand for homes pushed home prices to unsustainable levels.

Home sales are better calculated by comparing against the same period last year or the year before, rather than just the month before since home sales are cyclical - and typically max out in the summer months as that usually marks the closing of sales prior to the new school year. Declining prices are a good thing for people looking to buy affordable housing, but bad for those trying to sell. It depends on where you sit.

Increasing productivity is a good thing - though it increases the likelihood of a jobless recovery (and at a level nearly twice as high as the “jobless’ recovery under President Bush that was widely derided).

It’s still a mixed picture, but the real question is whether any of the stimulus did what its proponents claimed, or it did worse than had no stimulus been passed, or had no effect at all.

That’s the answer to the multitrillion dollar question, and no one can tell you until the numbers are run years from now, if ever. Even then, we’ll be debating the merits of the porkfest.

135 leftover54  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:21:24am

re: #51 lawhawk

Playing ‘ketchup’ here - good to have another informed opinion. As someone else was pointing out (I think) the popularity of paypal, ebay, Amazon etc., makes them an easy guess for phishing. The more universally popular
(and used) web sites the more likely a ‘random’ mailing will get a hit. Buy a mailing list from anywhere, compose your phony scam e-mail and send ‘em out - odds are great maybe that a worthwhile percentage from the list will have an account with one of these sites ?? I haven’t needed to mail anything in quite awhile but I believe the USPS had some type of tier system so that one could easily recognize junk mail from important personal mail - marked ‘General Delivery’ or something like that ? There should be a law (reps are writing them all the time anyhow) that spam can be readily I.D.’d . Of course these frauds will flaunt the law but maybe a stiff enough penalty will cut it down a bit. There’s the ‘international’ issue with the net that makes it difficult to nail scammers outside our borders but maybe some international law ? No issues of ‘extradition., just hang ‘em in whatever country they’re located in (physically). Make this the new function of the UN. At least they’d be doing something useful.

136 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:22:33am

re: #127 Sharmuta

re: #126 Desert Dog

re: #133 pink freud

I will pass on all your kind words.

137 John Neverbend  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:23:09am

re: #120 KenJen

Ha. I should have used a sarc tag. I just find it funny that a company that got a butt load of bailout money would make that comment.

Their economists are meant to be to be totally detached and unbiased, so I have to assume that they were making a dispassionate comment on where the economy would have been had there been no stimulus package. However, it does look rather funny.

138 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:23:49am

re: #116 Danny

Not sure if this is the same Deborah Solomon who wrote that article, but if so, I’d take it with a grain of salt.


from your link:

NOTE: There is a current (2006-9 and continuing) reporter at The Wall Street Journal by the same name. She is a different person, according to an e-mail from Susan Davis of the paper’s “Washington Wire” blog.[1]

139 HoosierHoops  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:23:53am

re: #136 Walter L. Newton

re: #126 Desert Dog

re: #133 pink freud

I will pass on all your kind words.

Tell Steve LGF wishes him well and to get healthy Soon

140 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:23:54am

re: #124 Desert Dog

Stimulating the productive members of society - Private Enterprise - would have done much more than this scatter shot Stimulus package. Cash for clunkers was a temporary illusion. How about slashing taxes and getting out of the way?

Yes, cutting taxes would be a structural change.
Buying some new technology is probably a good example of the former one. The government first started developing computers, then pulled out of the way and just bought them from private companies. They advanced tremendously.

OTOH, the government runs the space program, and largely designs the spacecraft. The Shuttle had to satisfy too many people to get funding, so instead of being a development craft, it had to be an operational one. Imagine if the Wright Brothers needed government funding, and around 1910 had to develop something with the capacity of a DC3 or larger. It would have been unreliable and fragile, like the Shuttle, and it would have set back aircraft development for years.
Instead, they offered airmail contracts to anyone who could deliver, and concentrated on setting up infrastructure of navigational aids and airports.
The aircraft manufacturers improved the state of the art quickly.

141 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:24:07am

re: #122 Irish Rose

I don’t think the term “conservative” should apply to Fox. In fact- I don’t think the term “conservative” should apply to a lot of people who claim it as their title. They’re not conservatives, at least not in the Goldwater sense. They hijacked the term, and all it’s done is taint the discourse for real conservatives.

142 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:24:45am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

Wishing him a speedy recovery.

143 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:25:02am

re: #142 Irish Rose

Wishing him a speedy recovery.

Ditto

144 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:25:21am

re: #139 HoosierHoops

I clipped and pasted the above comment to Steve. I suspect he will enjoy reading them.

145 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:25:23am

re: #143 sattv4u2

Ditto

Me too.

146 callahan23  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:25:23am

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

OT -

Some people over the last few days have wondered where Steve from New Mexico is?

He just gave me permission to pass on some info, but I will keep it to a minimum to preserve his privacy.

He has spent the last 5 days in the hospital, this was a scheduled procedure, but serious. He is ok in the sense he is not dying, but the procedure does not look like it fix anything.

So there will be a future round in the hospital, which will cause major changes to his lifestyle, but he will still be with us.

He’ll be back when he can, he say’s hi to all. I will repost this occasionally over the next 24 hours in hopes that any Lizard interested will see this.

Thanks for informing us on him, best regards to him.

147 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:25:48am

I just finished reading an article about a research vessel which just returned to the SF Bay Area after investigating the plastic pile floating in the Pacific Ocean:

Project Kaisei team talks trash

The whole article is a big frowney-face oh-isn’t-it-terrible diatribe about the trash floating in the sea. Now, I’ve been an environmentalist all my life, and I don’t like garbage either on purely aesthetic terms, but the attitude of the people on the ship and the commenters to the article totally blew my mind in their sanctimonious stupidity. Some of the comments include:

“We need to stop breeding.”

and

“We need a major nuclear war. There are too many people on Earth and a nuclear war will cleanse urban types predominantly. These folks are the worst form of humanity as Tom Jefferson pointed out. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are today the most beautiful cites in the world because they got rid of the human and structural flotsam and jetsam and started over. Is that too much to ask for the sake of our planet?”

…among the usual “I feel guilty for being an American consumer”-type comments.

In response to all that, I just made a comment of my own, under the name “aperson”:

“What appalling ignorance.

First of all: If the plastic doesn’t biodegrade, then generally it doesn’t affect or hurt those animals that swallow it. And when Dr. Andrea Neal says that the marine life is “hitching a ride” on the debris, what she’s really saying is that the debris has created a new ecosystem environment in which some marine life can thrive. In other words, the debris is not harming aquatic life at all, and in fact may be helping it.

Secondly: 99% of the stuff out there in the Pacific Gyre does NOT come from the United States. It comes primarily from two sources: things that have been thrown overboard or fallen off of ships; and stuff thrown into the ocean by people in Asian countries (primarily China, the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia). So all these self-congratulatory feel-good gestures by the commenters above will have absolutely no effect on the amount of trash floating in the ocean.

Thirdly: People who recycle are actually part of the problem. A lot of the plastic that gets collected for recycling here on the West Coast gets loaded onto ships and sent overseas for re-processing. And some of that plastic recycled trash falls overboard from the ships during the voyage, adding to the pile of ocean-going garbage. So every time you recycle, you’re actually making the problem worse.

The truth is, the only thing that’s “bad” about the plastic floating in the sea is that we humans think it’s “ugly.” Aside from that, it’s not environmentally damaging. And what these commenters here don’t want to admit is that we Americans are not to blame for it in the first place.

The level of self-loathing and self-flagellation displayed here is deeply disturbing. Responses range from chastising oneself for being a consumer, to wishing humans would all die in a nuclear holocaust.

These manifestations of psychological dysfunction only confirm my suspicions about the lunacy of the California PC worldview.”

148 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:26:20am

HOLY CRAP! The new Gerard Butler, Jamie Foxx movie looks awesome

149 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:26:36am

re: #121 eschew_obfuscation

Perhaps you should elect a government free from union control. Might go a long way to renewed prosperity. It’s killing Detroit.

The unions make a handy scapegoat, but all the people who prospered from union-won wages and benefits, which included the white collar workers at the Big Three back in the day, who were given matching benefits, funded a massive economic engine that drove the whole region.

Southeastern Michigan has a lot more problems than the unions, which are greatly-weakened nowadays. I could list about ten, but it’s too depressing.

150 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:26:41am

re: #121 eschew_obfuscation

Perhaps you should elect a government free from union control. Might go a long way to renewed prosperity. It’s killing Detroit.

News flash: Detroit is already dead.

151 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:28:05am

re: #150 Alouette

News flash: Detroit is already dead.

Any word on General Francisco Franco or Michael Jackson?

152 Lincolntf  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:29:54am

re: #147 zombie

Bravo.

153 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:30:58am

Clipped and pasted MORE hello’s to Steve.

154 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:31:50am

re: #147 zombie

Great post! Agree 100%.

But don’t you know that America is the only country that contributes significantly to world pollution, as well as being the only country that can afford to do anything about it, but we won’t because we’re too fat, lazy, greedy, stupid and selfish?

155 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:32:03am

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

Please let Steve know I’m thinking of him, too.

156 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:32:29am

re: #154 garycooper

Great post! Agree 100%.

But don’t you know that America is the only country that contributes significantly to world pollution, as well as being the only country that can afford to do anything about it, but we won’t because we’re too fat, lazy, greedy, stupid and selfish?

Starting again?

157 BlueCanuck  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:32:37am

re: #151 sattv4u2

Any word on General Francisco Franco or Michael Jackson?

Still dead according to my medium…

158 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:32:49am

re: #155 Dianna

Please let Steve know I’m thinking of him, too.

Done.

159 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:32:59am

re: #150 Alouette

News flash: Detroit is already dead.

No, it’s not dead. Where did you get that idea?

160 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:33:30am

re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Starting again?

What do you mean?

161 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:33:35am

re: #157 BlueCanuck

Still dead according to my medium…


What about your small and larges’?

162 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:33:54am

re: #160 garycooper

What do you mean?

It’s too soon to tell.

163 jcm  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #147 zombie

NUKE OURSELVES!
SAVE GAIA!

Wait, wait, wouldn’t nuke ourselves be environmentally damaging?
What about the Sea Kittens?

Oh, I’m sooo confused. To nuke or not to nuke that is the question!

164 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:34:28am

re: #157 BlueCanuck

Still dead according to my medium…

I don’t believe in fortune tellers…

165 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:34:35am

re: #147 zombie

Zombie, you are my hero. Or heroine.

Very well said.

And I think the garbage pile is ugly, too.

166 BlueCanuck  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:34:54am

re: #161 sattv4u2

What about your small and larges’?

They say the same thing too, also through my medium…

/smalls are dust, larges are hoping for a ressurection…

167 sattv4u2  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:34:58am

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

I don’t believe in fortune tellers…

What about fortunate cookies?

168 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:35:27am

Never mind if fish are eating toxic substances.

169 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:36:26am

re: #168 Sharmuta

Never mind if fish are eating toxic substances.

Mercury and so on?

They’re not getting that from plastic bags.

170 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:36:35am

re: #167 sattv4u2

What about fortunate cookies?

Those are ok… unfortunate cookies on the other hand… not so much.

/yes, it’s true, I am a smartass.

171 callahan23  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:37:33am

re: #154 garycooper
? Forgot the sarc tag?
re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Starting again?

Thanks Walter for reminding me that it is that garycooper who is of the same mindset as the great German mind-set that led that country to be the most hostile to technological progress. garycooper would perfectly fit in.

172 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:37:39am

re: #169 Dianna

They’re eating plastic, and you think it’s harmless? It’s toxic.

173 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:37:46am

re: #152 Lincolntf

Bravo.

Though I just refreshed the page and the commenter threee below me has a good idea too: building what he calls a “plasma reactor,” to not only incinerate the trash but turn it into energy with zero pollution. What he’s actually referring to is a “plasma arc gasification incinerator” which they already have in Japan and which may indeed be the future of recycling, trash-removal and energy generation. You can read more about it here:

Plasma arc waste disposal

I think this is actually a really good idea. You take trash, and render it into energy and a useful inert road-builiding material — with essentially no pollution or greenhouse gases. Once the plant is built, it creates much more energy than it consumes. It takes in garbage and emits nothing bad. What’s not to like?

174 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:38:09am

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

It’s too soon to tell.

I was making a little joke with Zombie, which I’m sure she got. Sarcasm is dead? I don’t think so. :/

175 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:39:43am

re: #171 callahan23

? Forgot the sarc tag?
re: #156 Walter L. Newton


Thanks Walter for reminding me that it is that garycooper who is of the same mindset as the great German mind-set that led that country to be the most hostile to technological progress. garycooper would perfectly fit in.

???

176 KenJen  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:40:29am

re: #154 garycooper

Great post! Agree 100%.

But don’t you know that America is the only country that contributes significantly to world pollution, as well as being the only country that can afford to do anything about it, but we won’t because we’re too fat, lazy, greedy, stupid and selfish?

Dude. We are broke.

177 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:41:28am

re: #151 sattv4u2

Any word on General Francisco Franco or Michael Jackson?

Detroit is deader than Franco and Jackson.

178 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #172 Sharmuta

When a fish attempts to eat a plastic bag, what happens?

Assuming it doesn’t somehow manage to choke or smother itself (which is a possibility), it passes through the fish’s system without effect, unless it causes a blockage.

How toxic is something that doesn’t degrade?

179 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:42:20am

re: #171 callahan23

? Forgot the sarc tag?
re: #156 Walter L. Newton

Thanks Walter for reminding me that it is that garycooper who is of the same mindset as the great German mind-set that led that country to be the most hostile to technological progress. garycooper would perfectly fit in.

Let’s find a little clear line here. LVQ’s knowledge does not even register on my screen because I don’t like his teaching methods. I don’t have a position before or against AGW, but I do have a position against brow-beating.

Garycooper is no better in my book. Instead of actually arguing the AGW points, which he seems to indicate he knows a lot about, he brow-beats.

So, I don’t learn anything from either of them, and don’t want to. There is a lot more reasonable people out there who have points to make about AGW.

180 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:42:38am

re: #174 garycooper

I was making a little joke with Zombie, which I’m sure she got. Sarcasm is dead? I don’t think so. :/

Yawn.

181 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:42:50am

World Wildlife Fund ‘appalled’ by tasteless 9/11 terror ad

The usually gentle World Wildlife Fund was on the warpath Tuesday after a tasteless ad exploiting 9/11 appeared online bearing its famous panda logo.

It showed dozens of planes diving at lower Manhattan with the tag line: “The tsunami killed 100 times more people than 9/11. The planet is brutally powerful. Respect it. Preserve it.”

The ad surfaced - days before the eighth anniversary of the attack - when it won a best of 2009 award from The One Club, a nonprofit that promotes “excellence” in advertising.

Just one problem - the WWF says the image was created on specifications by a Brazilian ad agency that were never approved.

“We are just utterly appalled,” said WWF spokeswoman Leslie Aun.

“This ad is not something that anyone in our organization would ever have signed off on.”

182 Spider Mensch  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:43:09am

re: #173 zombie

Though I just refreshed the page and the commenter threee below me has a good idea too: building what he calls a “plasma reactor,” to not only incinerate the trash but turn it into energy with zero pollution. What he’s actually referring to is a “plasma arc gasification incinerator” which they already have in Japan and which may indeed be the future of recycling, trash-removal and energy generation. You can read more about it here:

Plasma arc waste disposal

I think this is actually a really good idea. You take trash, and render it into energy and a useful inert road-builiding material — with essentially no pollution or greenhouse gases. Once the plant is built, it creates much more energy than it consumes. It takes in garbage and emits nothing bad. What’s not to like?

sound like The Little Lisa slurry factory…that Mr Burns was a visionary i tells ya!

/vague simpsons reference..

183 callahan23  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:43:23am

re: #175 garycooper

garycooper
This user is having a timeout.
(Logged in)

I am not gonna pile on.
But I’d seriously recommend the future use of the sarc tag.

184 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:43:31am

re: #178 Dianna

Fish put their mouths on stuff that’s not food all the time. Most often, if they can’t consume it, they spit it out. I’m sure many fish do ingest stuff they can’t eat, but their first inclination is to get rid of it.

185 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:43:40am

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

Now you’ve done it. You’ve invoked LVQ, GC, and AGW.

The rest of us will now retire to a bunker until the shelling is over.

186 Johnnyreb  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:43:54am

re: #178 Dianna

When a fish attempts to eat a plastic bag, what happens?

Assuming it doesn’t somehow manage to choke or smother itself (which is a possibility), it passes through the fish’s system without effect, unless it causes a blockage.

How toxic is something that doesn’t degrade?

Plastic bags are only toxic on those go green websites. One one hand they say it takes 10,000 years for a bag to degrade, but then they go on and say they kill fish and birds who eat them because they instantly turn toxic in their stomachs. You can’t have it both ways.

187 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #178 Dianna

Marine debris worldwide kills more than 1 million sea birds and 100,000 mammals each year, according to the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association. The chemical-laden materials have been found in the stomachs of dead fish and birds.

“We know that these plastics can carry high levels of toxins that they collect as they float,” said Eriksen, 40, an oceanographer with Moore at the nonprofit Algalita Marine Research Foundation in Long Beach, California. “The next step is to see if it bio-accumulates up the food chain onto your dinner plate.”

[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]

Would we eat plastic and think it harmless?

188 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:44:24am

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

World Wildlife Fund ‘appalled’ by tasteless 9/11 terror ad

What could possibly be the difference between the 2004 Asian tsunami and 9/11?

Clue: It’s the same as the difference between the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic and the Holocaust.

189 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:45:00am

re: #163 jcm

To nuke or not to nuke that is the question!

It’s very revealing that he wants us to nuke ourselves. Because it would be much simpler if we all simply just climbed to to roof of the nearest building and jumped off. Why don’t we commit sui-genocide that way? Because that would entail that everybody willingly participate. Since most people won’t willingly kill themselves to save Gaia — we must kill them unwillingly.

Nuking ourselves doesn’t count as mass suicide if many of those dying are not doing so willingly. Thus, nuking ourselves is actually mass murder, by the Eco-Sages who push the button.

190 Charpete67  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:45:20am

re: #185 Dianna

please…no AGW…

191 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:45:48am

re: #180 Walter L. Newton

Yawn.

ZZZzzz.

192 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:45:59am

re: #184 Noam Sayin’

Fish put their mouths on stuff that’s not food all the time. Most often, if they can’t consume it, they spit it out. I’m sure many fish do ingest stuff they can’t eat, but their first inclination is to get rid of it.

That sounds consistent with what I know about fish. The concern is more about the concentration of toxins in fish. Particularly bottom-feeders and shell fish, if I recall correctly. Which I may not, of course.

193 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:46:37am

re: #183 callahan23

I am not gonna pile on.
But I’d seriously recommend the future use of the sarc tag.

Thanks for not piling on!

/sarc

194 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:46:50am

re: #186 Johnnyreb

Plastic bags are only toxic on those go green websites. One one hand they say it takes 10,000 years for a bag to degrade, but then they go on and say they kill fish and birds who eat them because they instantly turn toxic in their stomachs. You can’t have it both ways.

Plastic in Oceans Leaches Potentially Toxic Chemicals, Japanese Study Shows

Ocean samples revealed some plastic byproducts that aren’t normally found in nature. Among others: including styrene monomer (SM), styrene dimer (SD), Bisphenol A (BPA), and styrene trimer (ST).

195 callahan23  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:47:19am

re: #193 garycooper

Thanks for not piling on!

/sarc

That’s a start. ;-)

196 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:47:43am

It’s come to this:

GlennBeckRapedAndMurderedAYoungGirlIn1990 . com

Welcome
This site exists to probe the vicious rumour that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. We don’t claim to know the truth — only that there’s a rumour floating around saying that Glenn Beck raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. So we’re going to do our part to try and help get to the bottom of this.

PLEASE NOTE
This site is NOT the origination of this meme! Merely the hub of the meme at this point. See the “Origination” link on the left for the exact origin. Also, if you write about this site and I find it, I might link you. If you want to be proactive, send me an email (link to the left) - I’ll get you soon as I can. BIG TIP: Check out the very bottom of the page for a secret.

snip

Notice: This site is parody/satire. We assume Glenn Beck did not rape and murder a young girl in 1990, although we haven’t yet seen proof that he didn’t. But we think Glenn Beck definitely uses tactics like this to spread lies and misinformation.

Must be those Crazy Tea Partiers.

197 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:48:10am

re: #168 Sharmuta

Never mind if fish are eating toxic substances.

Read the article. That’s the whole point. They say that the plastic is nonbiodegradable — hence, it does not interact with the biosphere.

Another commented on that same thread makes this very same point very well:

“This is just adopt-a-highway all over again - picking up trash which mostly provided cover for small animals and has almost no actual environmental impact (it’s just ugly, so it gets our attention)

The real dangers to the oceans - the ones that will matter in our lifetimes - are over-fishing, warming and agricultural runoff - none of which are visible.

This more charismatic topic distract us from the real problems being faced and siphon off research money which could be better spent.

Plastic doesn’t biodegrade - which makes it a wonderful substrate. Substrate in the deep ocean is _the_ limiting resource for productivity. I would not be at all surprised if these ares turn out to be quite ecologically productive.

Note that there are never any pictures of the actual area - these debris had to be collected over quite a large area (a 1 hour plankton tow is processing a lot of water…)”

Obviously no one (including me) wants toxins in the water. We’re talking about inert plastic.

198 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:48:21am

re: #189 zombie

It’s very revealing that he wants us to nuke ourselves. Because it would be much simpler if we all simply just climbed to to roof of the nearest building and jumped off. Why don’t we commit sui-genocide that way? Because that would entail that everybody willingly participate. Since most people won’t willingly kill themselves to save Gaia — we must kill them unwillingly.

Nuking ourselves doesn’t count as mass suicide if many of those dying are not doing so willingly. Thus, nuking ourselves is actually mass murder, by the Eco-Sages who push the button.

Actually the Human Voluntary Extinction Movement has no plans for a koolaid party. They are a bunch of narcissists who have chosen not to breed because raising and caring for little rugrats would impact the quality of their own self enjoyment.

199 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:48:42am

re: #185 Dianna

Now you’ve done it. You’ve invoked LVQ, GC, and AGW.

The rest of us will now retire to a bunker until the shelling is over.

Maybe I should have my wrist slapped, since I will be going to the lumber yard in a few minutes. I won’t have to be here for a hour or so.

200 Desert Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:48:54am

re: #194 Sharmuta

If the fish eat it or not, I cannot see how a enormous pile of floating garbage could possibly NOT be an environment disaster. We need to stop using the oceans as our garbage can and toilet.

201 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:49:09am

re: #187 Sharmuta

If one eats plastic, provided it doesn’t choke you or cause internal blockage, it does nothing.

Ask my black mutt. In her youth, she ate some plastic that had wrapped something or other. It did her absolutely no harm, though it made for a particularly dreadful clean-up job, which I will not detail.

202 jcm  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:49:16am

re: #189 zombie

It’s very revealing that he wants us to nuke ourselves. Because it would be much simpler if we all simply just climbed to to roof of the nearest building and jumped off. Why don’t we commit sui-genocide that way? Because that would entail that everybody willingly participate. Since most people won’t willingly kill themselves to save Gaia — we must kill them unwillingly.

Nuking ourselves doesn’t count as mass suicide if many of those dying are not doing so willingly. Thus, nuking ourselves is actually mass murder, by the Eco-Sages who push the button.

Mind boggling.

I have a simply question for these [deleted]s.

Which nations have done the most to clean up their waste output and have the lowest birth rates?

Western industrialized liberal democracies.

203 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:49:30am

re: #181 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“We are just utterly appalled,” said WWF spokeswoman Leslie Aun.
“This ad is not something that anyone in our organization would ever have signed off on.”

And now I’ll tell one…

204 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:49:43am

re: #177 Alouette

Detroit is deader than Franco and Jackson.

The City of Detroit is dead. D.E.A.D. - dead.

The auto industry in America is doing OK, if you’re counting Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc.
The traditional American auto industry - not so well, and I blame the UAW for killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

205 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:49:45am

re: #173 zombie

A better idea is do what Mr. Burns did on The Simpsons and create “Lil’ Lisa’s Slurry” from all of the sea kittehs.

206 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:49:47am

re: #189 zombie

It’s very revealing that he wants us to nuke ourselves. Because it would be much simpler if we all simply just climbed to to roof of the nearest building and jumped off. Why don’t we commit sui-genocide that way? Because that would entail that everybody willingly participate. Since most people won’t willingly kill themselves to save Gaia — we must kill them unwillingly.

Nuking ourselves doesn’t count as mass suicide if many of those dying are not doing so willingly. Thus, nuking ourselves is actually mass murder, by the Eco-Sages who push the button.


Nuking is kind of non-eco-friendly, from my research on the matter. Way too much collateral damage. Only cockroaches and Twinkies survive.

207 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:50:08am

re: #172 Sharmuta

They’re eating plastic, and you think it’s harmless? It’s toxic.

Some plastics are toxic, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. The whole article is about nonbiodegradable plastic that will still be here a million years from now, unchanged. You could swallow it all day long and it would just pass through your system. (And remember that fish don’t chew.)

208 MandyManners  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:50:39am

re: #183 callahan23

I am not gonna pile on.
But I’d seriously recommend the future use of the sarc tag.

In bed.

209 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:50:40am

re: #196 Ben Hur

It’s come to this:

GlennBeckRapedAndMurderedAYoungGirlIn1990 . com

Must be those Crazy Tea Partiers.

FARK is in on it.

You know, Right wing crazies.

210 LGoPs  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:50:44am

re: #173 zombie

Though I just refreshed the page and the commenter threee below me has a good idea too: building what he calls a “plasma reactor,” to not only incinerate the trash but turn it into energy with zero pollution. What he’s actually referring to is a “plasma arc gasification incinerator” which they already have in Japan and which may indeed be the future of recycling, trash-removal and energy generation. You can read more about it here:

Plasma arc waste disposal

I think this is actually a really good idea. You take trash, and render it into energy and a useful inert road-builiding material — with essentially no pollution or greenhouse gases. Once the plant is built, it creates much more energy than it consumes. It takes in garbage and emits nothing bad. What’s not to like?

Just make sure you take the dolphins out of it. It would serve no porpoise to keep them in.
/

211 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:50:48am

re: #182 Spider Mensch

Dho!

GMTA

212 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:50:48am

re: #147 zombie

As a long time collector of glass fishing floats i would like to emphasis your observation. I live in the middle of the Pacific and hence get flotsam and jetsom from both the Kuroshio Current and the Northern Equatorial. In other words, we get everything. You can hardly find anything that is made in a Western country. 99% of the trash is from Korea, China (both) and Japan, in that order. Nothing that America does can change this.

213 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:52:00am
214 HelloDare  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:52:14am

Mark Steyn is sitting in for Rush Limbaugh today and tomorrow.

Don’t listen to Rush much. It’s nice to hear Steyn’s voice. Heard him once before sitting in for somebody. He was a little frenetic. He’s slowed down a little.

215 Spider Mensch  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:52:26am

re: #198 Alouette

Actually the Human Voluntary Extinction Movement has no plans for a koolaid party. They are a bunch of narcissists who have chosen not to breed because raising and caring for little rugrats would impact the quality of their own self enjoyment.


and lets all wish them all the success in the world..hopefully they can not breed themselves into complete extinction. or is stupidity contagious like a cold??

216 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:52:35am

re: #178 Dianna

When a fish attempts to eat a plastic bag, what happens?

Assuming it doesn’t somehow manage to choke or smother itself (which is a possibility), it passes through the fish’s system without effect, unless it causes a blockage.

How toxic is something that doesn’t degrade?

Precisely.

What they’re talking about in the article is fish swallowing tiny plastic particles — totally inert plastic particles, similar to swallowing a small glass bead. Nothing would happen to you.

217 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:52:44am

re: #196 Ben Hur

Oh dear! That’s ugly!

218 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:53:31am

re: #217 Dianna

Oh dear! That’s ugly!

Didn’t make the usual list of “right wing” nuttiness..

219 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:53:51am

re: #178 Dianna

When a fish attempts to eat a plastic bag, what happens?

Assuming it doesn’t somehow manage to choke or smother itself (which is a possibility), it passes through the fish’s system without effect, unless it causes a blockage.

How toxic is something that doesn’t degrade?

All plastics leach chemicals… no exceptions.

There are a wide variety of plastic types however, and the amount of toxin varies from one type of plastic to the next. Also, some toxins have less of an environmental impact than others.

220 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:53:55am

re: #196 Ben Hur

It’s come to this:

GlennBeckRapedAndMurderedAYoungGirlIn1990 . com

Must be those Crazy Tea Partiers.

This is over the top for attacking Beck.
Attacking the editor of the Aftonbladet, however, I think might be justified.

221 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:53:57am

Plastics decompose faster in the sea, but release toxins

Saido, a chemist with the College of Pharmacy, Nihon University, Chiba, Japan, said his team found that when plastic decomposes it releases potentially toxic bisphenol A (BPA) and PS oligomer into the water, causing additional pollution. Plastics usually do not break down in an animal’s body after being eaten. However, the substances released from decomposing plastic are absorbed and could have adverse effects. BPA and PS oligomer are sources of concern because they can disrupt the functioning of hormones in animals and can seriously affect reproductive systems.

222 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:54:55am

plastic bags are hell on turtles, but plastic bags are rare because they decompose so quickly

223 LGoPs  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:55:25am

re: #178 Dianna

When a fish attempts to eat a plastic bag, what happens?

Assuming it doesn’t somehow manage to choke or smother itself (which is a possibility), it passes through the fish’s system without effect, unless it causes a blockage.
How toxic is something that doesn’t degrade?

Demonstrating that we need a National health Care System for Fish.
/

224 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:56:25am

re: #186 Johnnyreb

Plastic bags are only toxic on those go green websites. One one hand they say it takes 10,000 years for a bag to degrade, but then they go on and say they kill fish and birds who eat them because they instantly turn toxic in their stomachs. You can’t have it both ways.

Precisely.

225 HoosierHoops  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:56:31am

re: #189 zombie

It’s very revealing that he wants us to nuke ourselves. Because it would be much simpler if we all simply just climbed to to roof of the nearest building and jumped off. Why don’t we commit sui-genocide that way? Because that would entail that everybody willingly participate. Since most people won’t willingly kill themselves to save Gaia — we must kill them unwillingly.

Nuking ourselves doesn’t count as mass suicide if many of those dying are not doing so willingly. Thus, nuking ourselves is actually mass murder, by the Eco-Sages who push the button.

Speaking of Nuking someone…Years ago when we put a new fire control in a Fast Attack sub one of my buddies in the 1300 codes called me and said to come over during launch and they were playing with the software to launch ICBM’s.. So I skipped lunch and watched the most amazing graphics and technology you have ever seen…So we are playing around and my buddy goes ‘You do you want to nuke?’ I’m laughing going of course Los Vegas…Nope…There is no way any code will allow any launch of any Nuclear device on any territories of the United States…Period.. I did not know that… I’m the guy at the Console that nuked Vietnam on my lunch hour..
True story..It was wicked bad watching an ICBM spin up on the screen

226 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:56:39am

re: #147 zombie

Great post zombie. But remember it is extremely rare for something to fall off a ship. It happens, of course, but it is rare.

227 callahan23  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:56:54am

Dinner’s ready. See y’all in a bit.

228 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:57:32am

re: #214 HelloDare

Yeah. I noticed the same. He commented once that he had to do own prep, did not have pre-produced stuff. Scared him. Now he is into format. I get to hear once in while on my 3 min commute.

229 LGoPs  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:58:02am

re: #226 experiencedtraveller

Great post zombie. But remember it is extremely rare for something to fall off a ship. It happens, of course, but it is rare.

people fall off ships. of course they’re organic and biodegradeable…
/

230 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:58:49am

re: #218 Ben Hur

Didn’t make the usual list of “right wing” nuttiness..

That site needs to shut down. Beck’s not my cup of tea, and I think he’s irrational, but sex-crime allegations are a vile thing. I don’t care where they come from.

The more I think about it, the sicker I feel.

231 LGoPs  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:59:23am

re: #227 callahan23

Dinner’s ready. See y’all in a bit.

if it’s fish you’re having, watch out for the tiny plastic bits…
:)

232 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 10:59:53am

The purpose of some people’s lives is to serve as a warning, or a cautionary example for others. Detroit fills the same purpose, for concerned citizens in other regions of the country. Also, where would the comedians be without Detroit to use as the worst example of urban decay in the country?

233 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:00:20am

re: #229 LGoPs

people fall off ships. of course they’re organic and biodegradeable…
/

And sharks find them tasty, which is just fine with the “wildlife is better than people” crowd.

234 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:00:32am

re: #201 Dianna

Only if it’s inert plastic (meaning that all of the toxins have leached out of the plastic and into the surrounding water or soil).

235 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:00:32am

re: #197 zombie
The real dangers to the oceans - the ones that will matter in our lifetimes - are over-fishing, warming and agricultural runoff - none of which are visible.

Ummm, want to rethink that statement?

Direct Link Discoverd Between Agricultural Runoff And Algal Blooms In Sea

236 pat  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:00:47am

This stuff is not thrown off of ships, it is dumped. Our rocky coasts are covered with cigarette filters, tampax applicators, whiskey bottles (which we break on rocks to turn to sand) and strange oriental drink bottles.

237 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:01:43am

re: #221 Sharmuta

I’m not saying, btw, that clearing up the garbage is a bad thing. I think it should be cleaned up.

What bugs me is the way issues are phrased so that no matter what it’s time to panic.

238 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:01:45am
239 LGoPs  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:01:48am

re: #233 Kosh’s Shadow

And sharks find them tasty, which is just fine with the “wildlife is better than people” crowd.

That’s because sharks recycle. They turn people into shark poop.

240 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:02:01am

re: #122 Irish Rose

Is anyone else bothered by the slanted reporting at Fox these days?
I used to ignore the liberals who complained about Fox’s bias, because it wasn’t always so obvious.

But lately it seems that they’ve thrown all pretense out the window. A look at the front page on any given day will tell you that they’ve given themselves over to being a propaganda machine for the conservative right, and a fomenter for the crazies among us.

Seriousy, it’s disgusting.

Are there ANY major media outlets who are into objective reporting these days?

Perception 1
Reality 0

241 centaur  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:02:12am

re: #48 garycooper

It’s amazing how difficult it is to get a book published these days, if you aren’t a known quantity, a celeb, or working in a field of guaranteed bestsellers, like diet, fitness, finance, etc.

Even so, you would think Totten’s work would be too important and timely to ignore, for some relevant publishing house.

It’s never been easier to simply get published. I mean not just on the web, but practically anyone can get an ISBN and a book in print these days. I work in publishing. Now, getting published by one of the “big houses” is indeed difficult; some have basically stopped commissioning. But I agree, it depends on what Mr. Totten is shooting for, but I have a hard understanding how someone with his resume would not get an advance from even a mid-sized publisher.

Love his work, and I’ll buy the book and do that much to help out his royalties, though $1000 is laughable.

242 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:02:30am

re: #216 zombie

Precisely.

What they’re talking about in the article is fish swallowing tiny plastic particles — totally inert plastic particles, similar to swallowing a small glass bead. Nothing would happen to you.

Again, only if the toxins in the plastic were fully leached out into the plastic and dispersed into the surrounding environment.

243 LGoPs  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:03:19am

re: #236 pat

This stuff is not thrown off of ships, it is dumped. Our rocky coasts are covered with cigarette filters, tampax applicators, whiskey bottles (which we break on rocks to turn to sand) and strange oriental drink bottles.

Hell, a feller could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with that stuff…
/

244 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:03:40am

More coffee. Must have more coffee.

245 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:05:12am

re: #187 Sharmuta

[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]

Would we eat plastic and think it harmless?

Nothing in that article has any actual data about the plastic being bad for fish — just a guy saying “The ocean is now this plastic soup, and we just don’t know what that’s doing.”

“Just don’t know” is not a scientific conclusion.

re: #194 Sharmuta

Plastic in Oceans Leaches Potentially Toxic Chemicals, Japanese Study Shows

And in this article too they say, “It is not known yet what impact this will have on marine life and on the ecosystems that depend on the ocean.”

A lot of speculating, no actual information.

Besides, in regards to that second article, the researchers on the ship I was talking about originally were talking about nonbiodegradable plastic, not the kid that degrades quickly, as in the Japanese study you linked to.

246 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:05:54am

re: #241 centaur

It’s never been easier to simply get published. I mean not just on the web, but practically anyone can get an ISBN and a book in print these days. I work in publishing. Now, getting published by one of the “big houses” is indeed difficult; some have basically stopped commissioning. But I agree, it depends on what Mr. Totten is shooting for, but I have a hard understanding how someone with his resume would not get an advance from even a mid-sized publisher.

Love his work, and I’ll buy the book and do that much to help out his royalties, though $1000 is laughable.

Yeah, if you self-publish, and have your book printed on an “as needed” basis. I’m not talking about that, though Totten did say he would go that route, if need be. Obviously, it’s not the preferred avenue, especially for a book that’s taken the kind of work, commitment and risk that his has entailed.

247 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:07:23am

re: #200 Desert Dog

If the fish eat it or not, I cannot see how a enormous pile of floating garbage could possibly NOT be an environment disaster. We need to stop using the oceans as our garbage can and toilet.

Agreed — and by “we,” I mean the Asian countries where most of this trash is coming from.

248 Irish Rose  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:07:26am

re: #242 Irish Rose

Again, only if the toxins in the plastic were fully leached out into OUT OF the plastic and dispersed into the surrounding environment.

PIMF

249 Johnnyreb  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:08:28am

re: #226 experiencedtraveller

Great post zombie. But remember it is extremely rare for something to fall off a ship. It happens, of course, but it is rare.

Stuff is tossed overboard on nearly every single ship that travels the earths oceans. Not as much from US warships, but nearly every ship out there tosses trash overboard when they think they can get away with it. In certain areas in the far east and the Indian ocean I personally have seen trash trails from commercial ships miles and miles long just floating around.

250 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:10:33am

re: #212 pat

As a long time collector of glass fishing floats i would like to emphasis your observation. I live in the middle of the Pacific and hence get flotsam and jetsom from both the Kuroshio Current and the Northern Equatorial. In other words, we get everything. You can hardly find anything that is made in a Western country. 99% of the trash is from Korea, China (both) and Japan, in that order. Nothing that America does can change this.

THANK YOU for pointing this out!

That’s exactly my main point. IT’S NOT AMERICA’S GARBAGE.

251 Ben Hur  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:12:17am

re: #230 Dianna

That site needs to shut down. Beck’s not my cup of tea, and I think he’s irrational, but sex-crime allegations are a vile thing. I don’t care where they come from.

The more I think about it, the sicker I feel.

I’m still wondering how that slid by Kilgore’s daily research.

252 centaur  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:12:40am

re: #246 garycooper

Yep, that’s basically the route I was referring to. Thing is, Totten would be the perfect candidate. He has a strong following. He would have creative control (could include stuff about Iraq, or whatever else the publisher says “did not sell”). But of course there’d be no money up front this way, so it’d be the same boat in that respect. Publishers are cutting back on things like advances and marketing, big time, and I wish he would go solo. I wonder who his publisher his?

253 garycooper  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:13:44am

re: #250 zombie

THANK YOU for pointing this out!

That’s exactly my main point. IT’S NOT AMERICA’S GARBAGE.

But garbage from other countries DOESN’T COUNT!!

254 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:16:32am
255 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:16:45am

re: #250 zombie

THANK YOU for pointing this out!

That’s exactly my main point. IT’S NOT AMERICA’S GARBAGE.

“Garbage is our bread ad butter.”
- T. Soprano

256 debutaunt  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:17:12am

re: #255 debutaunt

“Garbage is our bread ad butter.”
- T. Soprano

PIMP and

257 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:18:58am

re: #250 zombie

THANK YOU for pointing this out!

That’s exactly my main point. IT’S NOT AMERICA’S GARBAGE.

I’ve traveled throughout the Pacific Rim of Asian and I can tell you from firsthand experience that litter is a major problem in that part of the world. People just toss their garbage out of car windows and over the edges of boats without a second thought about it.

Garbage is a bigger problem than “climate change”, especially in densely populated, poor countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and The Philippines.

258 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:19:51am

re: #257 Ringo the Gringo

Asian = Asia

259 Dianna  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:21:40am

re: #251 Ben Hur

I’m still wondering how that slid by Kilgore’s daily research.

It’s not a great way to call attention to what we’re “denying”, I guess.

260 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:21:56am

re: #221 Sharmuta

Plastics decompose faster in the sea, but release toxins

Interesting study — just released a few days ago, so it’s brand-new information. However, a close read raises a lot of questions. Firstly, they admit, “Plastics usually do not break down in an animal’s body after being eaten.” What they’re talking about in the article is the potentiality of the plastic releasing chemicals into the ocean at large — which is not the point of the original article I linked to, nor my original comment on it.

But when you look at the process they Japanese researchers did — it suddenly seems very “fishy”:

Saido described a new method to simulate the breakdown of plastic products at low temperatures, such as those found in the oceans. The process involves modeling plastic decomposition at room temperature, removing heat from the plastic and then using a liquid to extract the BPA and PS oligomer. Typically, he said, Styrofoam is crushed into pieces in the ocean and finding these is no problem. But when the study team was able to degrade the plastic, it discovered that three new compounds not found in nature formed.

So, basically, what these Japanese researchers did was find a way to degrade styrofoam in a laboratory setting. And (unsurprisingly) they found that styrofoam is made of nasty chemicals. What they didn’t do is prove that the styrofoam degrades under natural conditions.

261 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:23:01am

re: #245 zombie

You said:

The truth is, the only thing that’s “bad” about the plastic floating in the sea is that we humans think it’s “ugly.” Aside from that, it’s not environmentally damaging.

It’s just not true, and I don’t really care how you frame your argument, or try to narrow definitions so you can still claim to be correct. Non-biodegradable plastics can likewise leach toxins.

262 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:26:09am

re: #226 experiencedtraveller

Great post zombie. But remember it is extremely rare for something to fall off a ship. It happens, of course, but it is rare.

I’m not so sure about that. I read recently some astounding statistic about the large number of containers that fall off these cargo ships every year.

Sure, overall, compared to the amount of traffic going back and forth on the seas, it’s “rare,” but a rare occurrence of a massive amount of traffic can end being being a lot of stuff.

Mostly, from my personal observations, it seems to be garbage thrown overboard by the crews on ocean-going ships. Dump dump dump, they just don’t care.

263 Altermite  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:29:41am

Zombie, that is not what “nonbiodegradable” means. I don’t know where you got that definition.

There are many nonbidegradable products that are toxic to the biosphere.

264 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:30:22am

re: #249 Johnnyreb

Stuff is tossed overboard on nearly every single ship that travels the earths oceans. Not as much from US warships, but nearly every ship out there tosses trash overboard when they think they can get away with it. In certain areas in the far east and the Indian ocean I personally have seen trash trails from commercial ships miles and miles long just floating around.

Exactamundo. I truly think that’s where a LOT of this trash is coming from. I’m been on the beaches on the Canadian Pacific coast and the vast majority of the beach wrack is obviously stuff thrown overboard from Asian commercial fishing and cargo vessels.

265 jcm  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:32:16am

re: #226 experiencedtraveller

Great post zombie. But remember it is extremely rare for something to fall off a ship. It happens, of course, but it is rare.

Something like 10,000 containers a year are lost at sea, a small percentage over all.

266 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:33:34am

re: #265 jcm

Something like 10,000 containers a year are lost at sea, a small percentage over all.

Yes — but 10,000 containers contain a HUGE amount of stuff.

267 [deleted]  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:33:49am
268 jcm  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:37:05am

re: #266 zombie

Yes — but 10,000 containers contain a HUGE amount of stuff.

It is a lot of stuff!

269 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:37:22am

re: #262 zombie

Yeah. 100 million shipped and 10,000 lost. I wasn’t writing about crews throwing their personal refuse overboard (I agree with Johnyreb some surely do…) but the loss of containerized cargo is small.

I would add the caveat that lesser regulated vessels do a lot more illegal dumping than regulated vessels.

A minor quibble z! Great post…

270 Altermite  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:38:37am

re: #267 buzzsawmonkey

If they’re “leaching toxins,” they are by definition degrading. How, then, are they “nonbiodegradable?”

Nonbiodegradable substances can still be toxic. In fact, many biodegradable substances are toxic.

The nonbiodegradable means they do not degrade into other compounds, which in many cases would be less toxic.

One example is shampoos- many shampoos are partially composed of non-biodegradable ingredients. This means that they do a great deal of damage if not cleaned out by the filters in our water cleaning systems, and continue to do that damage.

Biodegradable shampoos and soaps are often used by people traveling to places with less than adequate cleaning systems, especially near sensitive areas. The shampoos quickly degrade into non-toxic compounds, doing far less damage than their non-biodegradable equivalents.

271 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:39:01am

re: #263 Altermite

Zombie, that is not what “nonbiodegradable” means. I don’t know where you got that definition.

There are many nonbidegradable products that are toxic to the biosphere.

Please explain then.

If something biodegrades, it breaks down into its constituent components. If it’s nonbiodegradable, it doesn’t. (Under natural conditions.) If a nonbidegradable product is toxic to the biosphere, then it isn’t truly nonbiodegradable.

If it’s leaching toxins or chemicals, then it’s degrading, hence is biodegradable.

Perhaps there are other definitions?

272 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:39:31am

re: #267 buzzsawmonkey

If they’re “leaching toxins,” they are by definition degrading. How, then, are they “nonbiodegradable?”

That’s what I’m thinking.

273 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:42:16am

re: #270 Altermite

Nonbiodegradable substances can still be toxic. In fact, many biodegradable substances are toxic.

The nonbiodegradable means they do not degrade into other compounds, which in many cases would be less toxic.

One example is shampoos- many shampoos are partially composed of non-biodegradable ingredients. This means that they do a great deal of damage if not cleaned out by the filters in our water cleaning systems, and continue to do that damage.

Biodegradable shampoos and soaps are often used by people traveling to places with less than adequate cleaning systems, especially near sensitive areas. The shampoos quickly degrade into non-toxic compounds, doing far less damage than their non-biodegradable equivalents.

Ah, you’re talking about liquids. Sure, something like shampoo is basically already a soup of toxic chemicals. And an animal can accidentally ingest and metabolize a liquid. But we’re talking about solids here.

274 Diamond Bullet  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:47:40am

Many Asian countries also employ cyanide for subsistence fishing.

But that’s just “their culture.” Also, non-American garbage floating in the ocean increases the ocean’s diversity and cultural perspective. Enough rubber yellow duckies and white sweatshop t-shirts floating forever in the Pacific currents will also increase the ocean’s albedo, reflecting more harmful sunlight back into space and saving the polar bears from instantaneous starvation. Lastly, the Chinese have thoughtfully coated most of their products with a healthy layer of lead paint, ensuring that many of their products sink to the ocean floor and that surface fish are not the only recipients of their kind patronage. The system works.

275 Altermite  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:48:28am

re: #271 zombie

Please explain then.

If something biodegrades, it breaks down into its constituent components. If it’s nonbiodegradable, it doesn’t. (Under natural conditions.) If a nonbidegradable product is toxic to the biosphere, then it isn’t truly nonbiodegradable.

If it’s leaching toxins or chemicals, then it’s degrading, hence is biodegradable.

Perhaps there are other definitions?


First, in order for an object to be called nonbiodegradable, it merely has to contain nonbiodegradable components. There are shampoos I mentioned upthread that are like this- some ingredients do not degrade, but others do. The shampoo is still not considered biodegradable. Many ‘nonbiodegradable’ objects contain various chemicals that can leach into the environment.

Second, compounds can be soluble without being biodegradable. You still have the substance of the object itself breaking into smaller and smaller component parts, and eventually into free molecules and clumps, but those molecules happen to be stable enough that they don’t break down.

Third, nonbiodegradable susbtances can still be toxic. Toxins can be toxic over and over again. Mercury is a wonderful example of this. It obviously doesn’t break down, and it doesn’t get natuarlly ‘fixed’ into another form. It continues doing its damage wherever it is.

Something not breaking down into something else doesn’t make it inert. It may still react and affect the body without breaking down. In fact, many poisons work this way- they simply replace something else in the body, and block it from doing its job. Arsenic does this to phosphorus atoms.

Hell, some drugs work this way as well, which is why they stay in the system so long- our body has no chemistry to break them down, and at most it can flush them.

276 Altermite  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 11:57:51am

re: #273 zombie

Ah, you’re talking about liquids. Sure, something like shampoo is basically already a soup of toxic chemicals. And an animal can accidentally ingest and metabolize a liquid. But we’re talking about solids here.

The animal doesn’t have to metabolize it to be poisoned by it. In fact, the animal cannot metabolize it, as you’ve pointed out. The animal is still poisoned by it- in fact, some ingested poisons work because the difficulty in metabolizing them. Most of the others that work do so despite our bodies’ attempts at metabolizing them. Generally speaking, our bodies don’t produce substances that are harmful to us as a result of metabolism/catabolism without some means of controlling/limiting the harmful substances.

PKU is an example of what happens when these safeguards do fail, for anyone studying biology.

277 Dreader1962  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:00:26pm

re: #257 Ringo the Gringo

I’ve traveled throughout the Pacific Rim of Asian and I can tell you from firsthand experience that litter is a major problem in that part of the world. People just toss their garbage out of car windows and over the edges of boats without a second thought about it.

Garbage is a bigger problem than “climate change”, especially in densely populated, poor countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and The Philippines.

I can second this. I lived in Japan for a total of five years and was sickened by the amount of litter that was piled up. Also noticed it during my visit to Korea, but that was very brief.

Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that there is a greater amount of litter around where I live (Georgia) than I care for. I would like to see more done about this; I’m from Michigan originally and they had a returnable can/bottle law. It seemed that this helped control litter, although much of the litter I see now is paper and plastic. Sometimes whole garbage bags of the stuff. Yeah, there are fines, but when was the last time you’ve heard of someone actually prosecuted for throwing crap out of their window?

278 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:06:02pm

re: #275 Altermite

Thanks for the explanations.

However, I’m still not so sure this applies to piles of plastic floating in the ocean. Mercury, arsenic, drugs and shampoo (in your examples) are all basically in liquid form, and thus can be ingested and become toxic. But if a person (or a fish) swallowed a nonbiodegradable plastic chunk, it wouldn’t be close enough to be so small that it could “enter the system” i.e. be absorbed through the intestinal wall or whatever. It would just pass through. And if there are chemicals that could leach out — well, they’ve already been in the oceans for years or decades, so whatever leaching there was to be done, it’s already happened. By the time the fish swallowed the piece, it’s pretty much inert.

279 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:10:51pm

re: #276 Altermite

The animal doesn’t have to metabolize it to be poisoned by it. In fact, the animal cannot metabolize it, as you’ve pointed out. The animal is still poisoned by it- in fact, some ingested poisons work because the difficulty in metabolizing them. Most of the others that work do so despite our bodies’ attempts at metabolizing them. Generally speaking, our bodies don’t produce substances that are harmful to us as a result of metabolism/catabolism without some means of controlling/limiting the harmful substances.

PKU is an example of what happens when these safeguards do fail, for anyone studying biology.

But how could the toxicity in the plastic molecules affect the fish if they’re bound together in a sizeable chunk? The animal may not be able metabolize it once it’s already in their system — but how can a chunk of plastic get “into” their systems to begin with?

Put it this way: If you accidentally swallowed a small plastic bead, would you worry that you would get poisoned by the bead? Or would you assume that it would just pass through your system and emerge out the other end essentially unchanged?

280 Altermite  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:21:06pm

re: #278 zombie

Thanks for the explanations.

However, I’m still not so sure this applies to piles of plastic floating in the ocean. Mercury, arsenic, drugs and shampoo (in your examples) are all basically in liquid form, and thus can be ingested and become toxic. But if a person (or a fish) swallowed a nonbiodegradable plastic chunk, it wouldn’t be close enough to be so small that it could “enter the system” i.e. be absorbed through the intestinal wall or whatever. It would just pass through. And if there are chemicals that could leach out — well, they’ve already been in the oceans for years or decades, so whatever leaching there was to be done, it’s already happened. By the time the fish swallowed the piece, it’s pretty much inert.

Honestly- I have no problem with this particular bit of plastic, as I don’t know enough about. I simply disagreed with the used of the term biodegradable.

I do know that one of the more common problems with bits of plastic like this isn’t the toxicity that sharmuta was worried about, but more of a choking/clogging/tangling issue, which does hit a few at risk species, but thats something else entirely.

281 Summersong  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:29:05pm

From the comments section -

“Could be a big dilemma if the above commenter actually decides to kick in a grand for the book.

“First of all, a very big thank you to, uh, `Sharmuta’…”

And imagine a bunch more people with obscene pseudonyms contribute. Yikes!”
Posted by: Edgar Author Profile Page at September 2, 2009 10:13 AM

282 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:32:12pm

re: #280 Altermite

Honestly- I have no problem with this particular bit of plastic, as I don’t know enough about. I simply disagreed with the used of the term biodegradable.

I do know that one of the more common problems with bits of plastic like this isn’t the toxicity that sharmuta was worried about, but more of a choking/clogging/tangling issue, which does hit a few at risk species, but thats something else entirely.

OK good, I see. Maybe I should have used the term “inert” rather than “biodegradable,” which is often used colloquially but which has a more detailed technical meaning as well, which you pointed out.

I agree that choking and entanglement might be a problem for large animals like pelicans/turtles etc., but that’s not the issue the scientists in the article were talking about, and to which I objected; They were instead talking about fish and marine life swallowing small plastic particles and somehow getting poisoned by them — something that didn’t seem very likely to me.

Look: Garbage is bad and ugly. And I HATE litterers and littering. And I’d love to see a garbage-free world. But the people in this expedition to look at the garbage in the Pacific gyre were spouting off a lot of unsupported gobbledygook, and then the commenters started talking about nuking ourselves as the proper solution to this problem — or, alternately engaging in hollow meaningless gestures. I reserve my right to make fun of them.

283 zombie  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:35:13pm

the term “inert” rather than “biodegradable,
=
the term “inert” rather than “NONbiodegradable,

PIMF

284 Altermite  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 12:35:32pm

re: #282 zombie

OK good, I see. Maybe I should have used the term “inert” rather than “biodegradable,” which is often used colloquially but which has a more detailed technical meaning as well, which you pointed out.

I agree that choking and entanglement might be a problem for large animals like pelicans/turtles etc., but that’s not the issue the scientists in the article were talking about, and to which I objected; They were instead talking about fish and marine life swallowing small plastic particles and somehow getting poisoned by them — something that didn’t seem very likely to me.

Look: Garbage is bad and ugly. And I HATE litterers and littering. And I’d love to see a garbage-free world. But the people in this expedition to look at the garbage in the Pacific gyre were spouting off a lot of unsupported gobbledygook, and then the commenters started talking about nuking ourselves as the proper solution to this problem — or, alternately engaging in hollow meaningless gestures. I reserve my right to make fun of them.

This could happen- if the plastic itself is toxic when dissolved in water. I don’t know enough about the plastic in question to answer that, though.

285 leftover54  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 1:05:03pm

re: #101 Dianna

Thank you for the reply. I can tell you it’s nothing to re create not only a professional looking web page but an identical copy of one - all the tools are right there on your PC. If you can ‘copy & paste’ you’re good to go (won’t get into editing here but still very simple) and you too can become a phisherman er, ah phisherwoman, no phisherperson too. Anyhow, as long as that is the extent of your experience I’m still ok with it all …I think. Stick to the rule that no legit. business will ask you to give them confidential info and they all have an address to send suspicious e-mails to so you can check it out before responding. Any time you write a check, use your cc in a store etc., you’re giving out a bunch of info that can be used if someone has a mind to do so to rip you off big time. There are several add ons for Firefox and Windows browsers, Norton software etc., that will verify a trusted site for you. One uses a color of your choice to highlight a tag at the beginning of the web address letting you know you have a secure connection with the vendor. I don’t write this to refute your contention I just hate to see someone short change themselves by writing off technological conveniences out of fear of the unknown.

286 leftover54  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 1:45:15pm

re: #147 zombie

Not to mention advocating nuking cities because of concern for the fishes ! How twisted is that ? We need to die because a fish or bird might choke on a piece of plastic ? Do these people ever think about the day to day life of either ? Part of the food chain and with relatively short life spans. At any time they are minutes if not seconds away from being swallowed whole by a bigger fish, plucked from the surface by a winged member of the animal kingdom or maybe chewed apart and to death by a polar bear etc.
Personally, I don’t like heights so I don’t like flying and being ‘dinner’ to some predator are up there in my ‘top 10 ways NOT to go’ and that I pray never happen to me. ”Choking to death’ is on there too but the ‘heights’ thing and the ‘dinner’ scenario are closer to #1. Pretty much anything other than ‘He went quietly, asleep in his bed - he didn’t feel a thing’ (which I suspect is a line of sh*t
also - just no one was awake to wittiness you clutching your chest in unbearable pain) makes the list. When ever I read something like this I’m always reminded of the movie ‘Wedding Crashers’ - the scene where ‘Sack’ is goofing on the baby seals/otters (whatever) coated in crude oil- as this is the stereotypical Rep./Conservative to these people. Yeah, we all deserve to die - after all we’ve paved highways right through the living rooms of the white tailed deer.
The ‘nuke’ is our creators suicide pill for us all - in the event the pain gets too much. If enough crazies like these a** hats ever come to power…
Where does this mind set come from anyhow ? I’ve been outta school now for almost 40 years. Do they teach/encourage this thinking now a days ??? I’ve heard this ‘line’ before, enough times for me to think its not just one loon (no pun intended) spouting off.

287 leftover54  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 3:09:49pm

re: #149 garycooper

New York too.The ‘health insurance’ package in lieu of salary increase is in large part what’s made health care unaffordable for the average worker. Unions- I’m still conflicted about ‘em. I used to think ‘any company that has one probably deserved one’. I’m not so sure now that they haven’t created as many problems as they’ve ‘fixed’.I know that there’s been an air of ‘he’s got ‘X’ insurance, only a $10.00 co pay, send him for more tests it ain’t going to hurt his wallet’. It’s been said to me on more than one occasion,not as blatantly but they were saying a as much. I remember as a kid having permanent teeth pulled because my fathers plan didn’t cover dental. The price for restoring the tooth was out of sight. Had the dentist had to set his rates based on what the average family could afford to pay,not to mention the downward effect on price from competition etc.I don’t even know what a doctors visit costs these days I’ve been covered by ‘insurance’ so long. BTW, why is it called ‘insurance’ to begin with ?
I thought ‘insurance’ was based on the reasonably easy to predict odds of having to pay out based on actuarial tables or age/driving record (for life and auto). The current laws state that if your premiums are paid up and your doc recommends whatever test/procedure, the insurance company must pay. Who’s to say how many times I’ll go to the docs each year, whether necessary or not etc.It’s not a true insurance policy where I bet X will happen to me in the near future and the insurance company bets X won’t happen, or at least not more than once, for a long time and the pay out is agreed upon in advance. I bet fewer people would be in line if they had to weigh cost considerations against how bad they really felt. How many get the common cold but insist on seeing the doc because they demand an antibiotic - for a viral illness ? How many docs prescribe meds. because they know insurance will cover it, so might as well make the customer happy (besides, what if I mis diagnose and he turns around and sues me ?). Didn’t docs used to charge based on a sliding fee scale,taking a families ability to payinto consideration ? Some made house calls to those that wouldn’t go to see a doctor etc., Those days are long gone because there’s an expected level of return financially, not morally, ethically or spiritually, for those years of study (and tuition costs). Whose to What reasonable ? If the market dictated the question would be settled. You save my life you deserve a 2nd home by the shore - Hamptons of course. I maintain your car so you can get from the shore to the hospital to save my life and I get… a double wide outside of Newark. Ditto for providing you with food and veggies so you don’t have to grow them yourself as you don’t have the time because you will be in surgery this morning saving my life…something ain’t right with the picture and it’s grown so large I doubt we can get it back in the bottle without some philosophical/attitude changes along the way. I worked in a health care setting my entire life.Not from ‘altruism’ - I made a decent middle class living and thought my salary was fair (who couldn’t use more ?).
I enjoyed helping and advocating for others and you can’t put a price on this.I’d think knowing at days end I saved someone’s life would be ‘payment’ that can’t be equated in dollars and cents. Add a reasonable fee to that and what more can one ask for outta life ?
Sh*t can the whole system, offer docs a sliding fee scale and tell ‘em ‘if you don’t like it we have an opening in Nursing over at Mt St Mary’s - or, if not your cup ‘o tea, the local Ford dealer is lookin’ for a few good men/woman. Add some tuition benefits to insure a good crowd at the med schools and there you have it - fixed.
Wasn’t that ‘simple’ ? You are very welcome.

*paid for by the ‘leftover54 for POTUS campaign.
“Simple solutions for simple minds”

288 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 2, 2009 8:56:17pm

re: #281 Summersong

That’s funny! Because Mr Totten kind of knows who I am thanks to a mutual friend.


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St. Vincent - Slow Slow Disco (Audio)Songs are living things. They grow, they evolve, they change their moods and personalities over time. The latest version of 'Slow Disco' originally found on MASSEDUCTION. Upcoming Live Shows: ilovestvincent.com Connect with St. Vincent:instagram.com@st_vincentfacebook.com
Thanos
2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Sarah Palin’s Son Arrested on Domestic Violence Charges Sarah Palin's oldest son, Track Palin, was arrested Friday on domestic violence charges, Alaska State Troopers said. Troopers responded to his home in Wasilla at 10:37 p.m. after a report of a disturbance. Palin allegedly assaulted an acquaintance, then ...
Thanos
2 weeks, 6 days ago
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