Hoffman Accuses Dems of 'Stealing the Election'

Hoffman Accuses Dems of ‘Stealing the Election’

PoliticsNovember 2009 • Views: 2,970

Dave Weigel reports that the Doug Hoffman campaign is accusing the Owens camp of bringing in the dreaded ACORN and stealing the election.

PLATTSBURGH, N.Y. – At a short press availability in his campaign office here, NY-23 Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman said that a GOTV volunteer’s tires had been slashed, and all but blamed Democrats for the dirty trick.

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman. “I think the Democrats are doing anything they possibly can to steal this election away from the 23rd district.”

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428 comments

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:38:44pm

WTH?
Is that all they have is if Hoffman loses it is all ACORN’s fault?

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:41:17pm

Right: Acorn.

Left: They didn’t follow our advice.

lawhawk Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:41:46pm

re: #1 webevintage

Who says that Hoffman loses, but what reports are there that ACORN has done anything here? So far, I’ve seen nothing from any corners of the district relating to ACORN activities today.

It’s just frothing the base IMO.

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:41:53pm

Are there exit polls being done?

Lawhawk?

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:41:58pm

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:43:13pm

re: #5 MandyManners

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman.

Reports aren’t proof.

I could report that George Clooney is on my front poorch naked but, that doesn’t make it true.

If it was, you certainly wouldn’t be posting anything at LGF right now.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:43:24pm

An innaresting idea occurs to me - if we can get the tea partiers, the black panthers, and the whack-jobs of any and all stripes all together to slug it out at the polls, maybe, just maybe, they’ll exhaust themselves and disgust the regular folk enough to put a lild on this crap before it gets outta hand.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:43:49pm

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman.

Does he mean to imply American military with “the troops”?

Sounds weird.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:44:07pm

re: #3 lawhawk

Who says that Hoffman loses, but what reports are there that ACORN has done anything here? So far, I’ve seen nothing from any corners of the district relating to ACORN activities today.

It’s just frothing the base IMO.

I’ve noticed a lot of that. Sort of like yellow journalism, attracts flies every time.

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:44:29pm

re: #5 MandyManners

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman.

Reports aren’t proof.

I could report that George Clooney is on my front poorch naked but, that doesn’t make it true.

if only…

Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:46:08pm

re: #5 MandyManners

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman.

Reports aren’t proof.

I could report that George Clooney is on my front poorch naked but, that doesn’t make it true.

That’s me. Open the door, goddamit, it’s cold out here.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:46:49pm

Everybody must be out voting. Any Lizards have any interesting news about your local elections?

winemaker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:47:58pm

Sowing the seeds to de-legitimize Hoffman’s impending victory, and taking the focus of the story off of the moderate voters abandoning the Obama candidates.

There is no right-of-center group (the local Lions Club?) that could be blamed for voter indimidation, except…out-of-state anti-abortion whackos! So, create anti-abortion whacko tales of intimidation.

So obvious. So been-there.

prairiefire Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:48:30pm

re: #5 MandyManners

You can still wish!

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:48:49pm

Crikey. You’d think ACORN was an organization out of a James Bond movie. All they need are low-income ninjas and a community-volcano base to smooth out the edges.

wrenchwench Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:49:14pm

This is from one of Weigel’s articles linked by simoom a couple threads back:

The Hoffman backers outside of the Biden event all said they’d attended Tea Parties. Some were affiliated with Glenn Beck’s 9/12 Project. All worried that ACORN was going to show up in the district, or even at the Biden event–a paranoia that led to some minor awkwardness when an African-American Hoffman worker walked by.
“This guy’s with ACORN,” said Dewitt.

“Definitely, not from around here,” said businessman Erik Dunk.

Later in the article, Weigel links to RS McCain.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:49:19pm

re: #12 Walter L. Newton

Everybody must be out voting. Any Lizards have any interesting news about your local elections?

I’ve elected to go buy some beer and some smokes. No polls in my area today.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:50:26pm

re: #15 JasonA

Crikey. You’d think ACORN was an organization out of a James Bond movie. All they need are low-income ninjas and a community-volcano base to smooth out the edges.

They are doing a fine job of crashing and burning without any further help. And I don’t want any tax payers money going to pay for ninjas or volcanos… ACORN has wasted enough of my money.

Hi ducky.

Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:50:42pm

Aaaacooorn!
/Shaking fist in the air

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:51:30pm

The right have a new boogeyman - I guess they couldn’t blame Bill Clinton for all the world’s ills forever.

Seriously though, I hated it when my side bitched endlessly about Bush stealing the election in Florida. If this is sign of things to come, 2010 is going to have more sour grapes than a bottle of white wine vinegar.

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:52:35pm

Down with both major parties.

They have had the governance of the country between them for many decades.

Had they been cooperating for the common good, the country would not be in the divisive and overspent state in which it now finds itself.

But they have not cooperated for the common good; they have squabbled like 5 year olds, and sold out to big business among other things.

It is time for the voters to turn them both out into the howling wilderness.

I have spoken.

Kragar Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:52:51pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Aaaacooorn!
/Shaking fist in the air

Its chief weapon is suprise.

Suprise and fear.

Two chief weapons!

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:52:57pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

They are doing a fine job of crashing and burning without any further help. And I don’t want any tax payers money going to pay for ninjas or volcanos… ACORN has wasted enough of my money.

Hi ducky.

Yea damn ACORN.. who’s 10 year money total equals one day of cash for Haliburton in the Iraq war. Oh Lordy the WASTE!

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:53:08pm

re: #20 Merryweather

The right have a new boogeyman - I guess they couldn’t blame Bill Clinton for all the world’s ills forever.

Seriously though, I hated it when my side bitched endlessly about Bush stealing the election in Florida. If this is sign of things to come, 2010 is going to have more sour grapes than a bottle of white wine vinegar.

I think the progressive can get at least another 3 or 4 years out of blaming Bush for everything. They haven’t even scratched the surface.

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:53:32pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

They are doing a fine job of crashing and burning without any further help. And I don’t want any tax payers money going to pay for ninjas or volcanos…

Weren’t Ninjas a big part of the Biden plan for afghanistan? I’m always for more ninjas.

Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:54:10pm

re: #12 Walter L. Newton

Everybody must be out voting. Any Lizards have any interesting news about your local elections?

Here in Lubbock, we are voting on four bond issues to finance the construction of additional soccer fields and the like. Of course, if the orange cone plague had not devoured all existing or projected funds, this would not be necessary.
23% of main thoroughfare mileage (four or more lanes) is at least partially blocked by more than 30 separate construction and repair projects, the largest being the infamous Marsha Sharp Porkway. The latter is a massive freeway across the middle of town. At a cost of a billion dollars, it will cut driving time from Idalou to Brownfield by about 10 minutes.

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:54:20pm

What took him so long?
///

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:54:27pm

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman. “I think the Democrats are doing anything they possibly can to steal this election away from the 23rd district.”

How can they ‘steal this election away from the 23rd district’? Unless the Dems are attempting some last minute gerrymandering…

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:54:30pm

re: #25 RogueOne

Weren’t Ninjas a big part of the Biden plan for afghanistan? I’m always for more ninjas.

I’m starting to see a bad Jean-Claude Van Damme movie form in my head…

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:54:34pm

re: #23 Locker

Yea damn ACORN.. who’s 10 year money total equals one day of cash for Haliburton in the Iraq war. Oh Lordy the WASTE!

Amazing - does EVERY discussion inevitably return to Halliburton and/or Iraq?

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:54:55pm

re: #29 JasonA

I’m starting to see a bad Jean-Claude Van Damme movie form in my head…

There is no other kind.

rollwave87 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:55:08pm

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman. “I think the Democrats are doing anything they possibly can to steal this election away from the 23rd district…”

…which you don’t even live in.

JamesWI Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:55:13pm

I think one part of what he’s doing, (besides the obvious Glenn Beck ACORN fear mongering), is try to make it seem like some kind of upset when the “conservative” candidate wins in an area that hasn’t elected a Democrat since before any of us were born.

I’d say that if I were a Democrat (at least one not in NY-23), I’d actually prefer Hoffman win this race. The Palin/Beck lovers will humorously find this win as proof that they need to purge all the “RINOs” (read: anyone who doesn’t agree with us on every issue), when in reality, a Democrat winning this race would be a monumental upset, one that would force the GOP to come to the rather obvious conclusion that, in order to attract the moderates and left-leaning independents you need to actually have any power in DC, you might actually have to (gasp!) run some candidates with some moderate views!!! What might be one seat lost to the Democrats will certainly be dozens of seats gained in future elections, if the Beck candidate wins.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:55:58pm

re: #23 Locker

Yea damn ACORN.. who’s 10 year money total equals one day of cash for Haliburton in the Iraq war. Oh Lordy the WASTE!

I can’t stand the waste, fraud and abuse that Haliburton has managed. Doesn’t change a thing I said, nor the facts of what I said…

Tu quoque… play again.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:57:04pm

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

Spending tax dollars on ninjas is political suicide, as it is nearly impossible to see a return on that kind of investment.

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:57:57pm

re: #35 Slumbering Behemoth

Spending tax dollars on ninjas is political suicide, as it is nearly impossible to see a return on that kind of investment.

any way, everyone knows that pirates are a better use of funds…

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:58:09pm

re: #15 JasonA

Crikey. You’d think ACORN was an organization out of a James Bond movie. All they need are low-income ninjas and a community-volcano base to smooth out the edges.

Oh noes! ACORN! HALP!
Youtube Video

wrenchwench Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:59:32pm

My favorite prognostication so far:

If the GOP loses here tomorrow, there will be some entertaining privately-funded intraparty fratricide coming to a Fox News Channel near you.

Hat tip to some unknown lizard from a couple of threads ago.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 1:59:50pm

re: #37 iceweasel

Oh noes! ACORN! HALP!

[Video]

And you see no problems with ACORN. They are totally above board and should be left alone (and before you reply, no, I didn’t say you said that, or anyone else said that, I am proposing a question).

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:00:13pm

re: #36 webevintage

any way, everyone knows that pirates are a better use of funds…

Pirates Vs. Ninjas
Great Geek Debate
wired.com

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:00:50pm

re: #36 webevintage

any way, everyone knows that pirates are a better use of funds…

And we know how much Obama hates pirates. Win-win.

Fenris Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:01:39pm

Because everyone knows that in order for a third party to lose, you need to steal the election.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:01:43pm

BBIAB - got to get ready for rehearsal - talk among yourselves.

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:02:12pm

re: #30 Guanxi88

Yeah, unfortunately a lot of liberals are getting as bad as the Clinton-bashers re. Bush, if we’re not there already. It’s a bad habit and we need to get out of it - we won’t be able to hold Obama’s feet to the fire if we’re constantly excusing him by going on about everything is still Bush’s fault.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:03:30pm

re: #44 Merryweather

You’re being too reasonable, now. Knock it off, already, or I’m gonna end up liking you.

Kragar Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:03:42pm

re: #29 JasonA

I’m starting to see a bad Jean-Claude Van Damme movie form in my head…

There was a good Van Damme movie?

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:03:57pm

Frankly, as much as I loathe the teabagging right, I would quite happily hand them NY-23 for now in exchange for keeping gay marriage in Maine.

baier Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:04:03pm

/Who needs acorn when we have the “Commissioners”.

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:04:41pm

re: #23 Locker

An Acorn and an old chestnut. Two utterly separate topics worth of attention.

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:04:41pm

re: #33 JamesWI

I think one part of what he’s doing, (besides the obvious Glenn Beck ACORN fear mongering), is try to make it seem like some kind of upset when the “conservative” candidate wins in an area that hasn’t elected a Democrat since before any of us were born.

I’d say that if I were a Democrat (at least one not in NY-23), I’d actually prefer Hoffman win this race. The Palin/Beck lovers will humorously find this win as proof that they need to purge all the “RINOs” (read: anyone who doesn’t agree with us on every issue), when in reality, a Democrat winning this race would be a monumental upset, one that would force the GOP to come to the rather obvious conclusion that, in order to attract the moderates and left-leaning independents you need to actually have any power in DC, you might actually have to (gasp!) run some candidates with some moderate views!!! What might be one seat lost to the Democrats will certainly be dozens of seats gained in future elections, if the Beck candidate wins.

That makes perfect sense, but I can’t see it as a desirable outcome even for a hyper-partisan dem. A healthy democracy has to have at least two parties to function. Despite being on the left, i have zero desire to see only one party in control of everything, even if it’s the one I’m more inclined to like.
And this freakish turn in GOP ideology and rhetoric disturbs me. I’ll admit to the occasional moments of schadenfreude in watching them tear themselves up, but those moments are surprisingly fleeting and over-taken by worries. I’d much rather see Beck and Bachmann and Palin et al just go away, and see a party of fiscal conservatives. So long as there’s no so-cons and theocrats in control.
(Even so-cons I guess I can tolerate, so long as they’re not the kind that shade into theocracy or anti-science views).

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:05:10pm

re: #30 Guanxi88

Amazing - does EVERY discussion inevitably return to Halliburton and/or Iraq?

No every discussion inevitably returns to ACORN apparently.

soxfan4life Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:05:39pm

re: #47 Merryweather

Frankly, as much as I loathe the teabagging right, I would quite happily hand them NY-23 for now in exchange for keeping gay marriage in Maine.

What does one have to do with the other? Just asking.

simoom Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:06:00pm

Since Hoffman provided no evidence for his charges, and really made it pretty clear he had none, the press are just being a bunch of suckers covering it. It’s a low turn out election so he’s trying to get more of his base to the polls and the ACORN bogeyman is just the read meat to do it.

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:06:36pm

re: #21 Ojoe

Down with both major parties.

They have had the governance of the country between them for many decades.

Had they been cooperating for the common good, the country would not be in the divisive and overspent state in which it now finds itself.

But they have not cooperated for the common good; they have squabbled like 5 year olds, and sold out to big business among other things.

It is time for the voters to turn them both out into the howling wilderness.

I have spoken.

What would you suggest?

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:06:59pm

re: #45 Guanxi88

But George W Bush was the worst president ever.

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:07:10pm

re: #47 Merryweather

Think the rescind will fail?

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:07:11pm

re: #53 simoom

The politics of ipecac.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:07:41pm

re: #51 Locker

No every discussion inevitably returns to ACORN apparently.

Well, I’d note that ACORN was at least mentioned in the story which is the purported topic of this thread. It didn’t come from nowhere. Halliburton and Iraq, like the Jesuits and the Vatican, dod not feature prominently in the coverage of this.

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:07:49pm

re: #55 Merryweather

yeah, right up until late january 2009

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:08:10pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

It is time for independents to get together in some party because they would be more effective that way.

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:08:41pm

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:08:47pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

I can’t stand the waste, fraud and abuse that Haliburton has managed. Doesn’t change a thing I said, nor the facts of what I said…

Tu quoque… play again.

It’s a reality check on your outrage over “waste” . I did misspeak in my quote those, it was TWENTY years of federal acorn money. Not 10.

salon.com…

“The amount of money that ACORN has received in the past 20 years altogether is roughly equal to what the taxpayer paid to Halliburton each day during the war in Iraq.”

So since my goal was not to change anything you said but to bring some perspective to your outrage I’ll go ahead and declare victory and let you go ahead and play again.

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:08:55pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

And run moderate candidates…

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:09:01pm

re: #61 MikeySDCA

Is this district in the suburbs of Kandahar? /

Not yet.

soxfan4life Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:09:15pm

re: #60 Ojoe

How so, try to swing one of the major parties in their direction?

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:09:20pm

re: #42 fenrisdesigns

Because everyone knows that in order for a third party to lose, you need to steal the election.

Yesss, Preciousss. Those tricksie Acornses are stealing my electionsss.

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:09:32pm

And I don’t really care if it is the Whig party or not.

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:09:35pm

kernelPanic Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:10:23pm

re: #47 Merryweather

Frankly, as much as I loathe the teabagging right, I would quite happily hand them NY-23 for now in exchange for keeping gay marriage in Maine.

Same here. Driving through western maine this weekend it was interesting to see all of the signs for Question #1 and #4 (no other issues had major signage). From what we could tell the ‘no on 1’ signs had a small numerical advantage. Even more interesting on the main streets of Bethel and other towns were side-by-side houses with ‘no on 1’ and ‘yes on 1’ signs out front — we rarely seem to see polite disagreement on these state ballot questions. Here in massachusetts someone from one of the sides would have ripped down all the other signs, heh.

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:10:26pm

re: #60 Ojoe

It is time for independents to get together in some party because they would be more effective that way.

They’d need a name for it, not too new, not too backward-looking.

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:10:43pm

re: #58 Guanxi88

Well, I’d note that ACORN was at least mentioned in the story which is the purported topic of this thread. It didn’t come from nowhere. Halliburton and Iraq, like the Jesuits and the Vatican, dod not feature prominently in the coverage of this.

I’d note that I didn’t bring up Halliburton from some vacuum either as I was responding to a comment about wasted tax payer money.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:11:09pm

re: #62 Locker

I’d point out, however, that whereas one could question the value for the money of the payments to Halliburton (who, be it noted, is the ONLY contractor able to meet the needs of a range of government and private sector needs), a case could be made that at least some portion of the funds attained some portion of a series of objectives worthy of being sought.

ACORN? What exactly do they do, again?

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:11:17pm

I like this thread. It takes my mind off of N. Korea and Iran.

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:11:59pm

re: #72 Guanxi88

I’d point out, however, that whereas one could question the value for the money of the payments to Halliburton (who, be it noted, is the ONLY contractor able to meet the needs of a range of government and private sector needs), a case could be made that at least some portion of the funds attained some portion of a series of objectives worthy of being sought.

ACORN? What exactly do they do, again?

They help poor people. I guess that’s not as worthy an objective as blowing up poor people, eh?

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:12:51pm

re: #62 Locker

…So since my goal was not to change anything you said but to bring some perspective to your outrage I’ll go ahead and declare victory and let you go ahead and play again.

Danth’s Law

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:13:30pm

re: #74 Locker

They help poor people. I guess that’s not as worthy an objective as blowing up poor people, eh?

In terms of their work, I don’t recall Halliburton serving as anything more or less than a logistical support and construction services firm. Still, if they’ve been morphed into a rogue band of mercenary murderers, I won’t deny you the ability to feed your imaginary outrage.

And ACORN, who help poor people, how do they do this?

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:14:22pm

re: #73 Stuart Leviton

I like this thread. It takes my mind off of N. Korea and Iran.

This distraction should further help you in that endeavor.

*Coulrophobia Warning*

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:14:25pm

re: #71 Locker

I’d note that I didn’t bring up Halliburton from some vacuum either as I was responding to a comment about wasted tax payer money.

You migth just as easily have invoked subsidies for tobacco and cotton, or, say federal funding for salmon hatcheries. And yet, you went to halilburton.

Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:15:17pm

I would have to say that ACORN fails the grade as a bloodthirsty political brownshirt militia and Soros is just not getting his money’s worth. I haven’t seen them wreck a single church or take over a single polling place, weasel word “reports” from Hoffman notwithstanding. Their uniforms suck too.

What? They don’t have uniforms? Well, no wonder then.

keithgabryelski Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:15:41pm

re: #76 Guanxi88

And ACORN, who help poor people, how do they do this?

acorn.org

abbyadams Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:15:41pm

re: #3 lawhawk

Agreed. It’s the “GET YOUR ASSES OUT HERE AND VOTE OR THE BAD GUYS WILL WIN” call.

JamesWI Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:15:48pm

re: #50 iceweasel

That makes perfect sense, but I can’t see it as a desirable outcome even for a hyper-partisan dem. A healthy democracy has to have at least two parties to function. Despite being on the left, i have zero desire to see only one party in control of everything, even if it’s the one I’m more inclined to like.
And this freakish turn in GOP ideology and rhetoric disturbs me. I’ll admit to the occasional moments of schadenfreude in watching them tear themselves up, but those moments are surprisingly fleeting and over-taken by worries. I’d much rather see Beck and Bachmann and Palin et al just go away, and see a party of fiscal conservatives. So long as there’s no so-cons and theocrats in control.
(Even so-cons I guess I can tolerate, so long as they’re not the kind that shade into theocracy or anti-science views).

I don’t know. With an Owens win, the Beck/Palin crowd can still blame the eeevil ACORN, Scozzafava, or whichever boogieman they currently see, and still wield too much influence. With a Hoffman win, they would continue in their purge, then after getting their asses handed to them in the 2010 and 2012 elections, could be completely discredited and we might finally have a reasonable party to oppose the Dems.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:15:50pm

re: #74 Locker

They help poor people. I guess that’s not as worthy an objective as blowing up poor people, eh?

I’d note that the Salvation Army, among other private organizations, seems to be able to do much the same sort of thing. I’d note, further, that they appear to be able to do so without appearing to conspire to violate federal law.

drcordell Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:15:54pm

Wow, you can practically set your watch to the annual GOP “voter fraud” hyperventilation. First comes the WSJ op-ed from Dick Fuld, and then the breathless ACORN ranting that works its way through the right-wing echo chamber and eventually into the supposed “leftist” mainstream press. I predict coverage of this “issue” in the WaPo at the very least.

OneMonkeysUncle Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:16:20pm

…doing anything they possibly can to steal this election away from the 23rd district.

Oh, irony is far from dead out on the right-most fringes of Winuttistan today…

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:17:02pm

re: #76 Guanxi88

In terms of their work, I don’t recall Halliburton serving as anything more or less than a logistical support and construction services firm. Still, if they’ve been morphed into a rogue band of mercenary murderers, I won’t deny you the ability to feed your imaginary outrage.

And ACORN, who help poor people, how do they do this?

acorn.org…

Affordable Housing
Better Schools
Fair Housing
Fair Tax Fees
Foreclosures
Gulf Coast Recovery
Health Care
Immigration
Living Wage
Paid Sick Days
Predatory Lending
Utilities
Voter Engagement

drcordell Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:17:25pm

re: #83 Guanxi88

I’d note that the Salvation Army, among other private organizations, seems to be able to do much the same sort of thing. I’d note, further, that they appear to be able to do so without appearing to conspire to violate federal law.

Yes, all those ACORN conspiracists, plotting to subvert the American electoral system by registering Mickey Mouse to vote.

right_wing2 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:17:30pm

Whether they actually do in this case or not, ACORN has a strong history of pulling dirty tricks, encouraging as lax a standard as possible for absentee ballots and registration fraud.

ACORN, and every other activist group, left or right, needs to be completely de-funded when it comes to my tax money.

Locker Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:17:51pm

re: #78 Guanxi88

You migth just as easily have invoked subsidies for tobacco and cotton, or, say federal funding for salmon hatcheries. And yet, you went to halilburton.

No… YOU might have just as easily invoked that stuff. Speaking for me is not an option.

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:18pm

Fraud? Vote fraud in general is a fact. Whether the crooks from one side out do the other, that’s the question.

But really-How much evidence do we have? How many folks that have moved away, voted absentee?

baier Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:22pm

re: #86 Locker

acorn.org…

Affordable Housing
Better Schools
Fair Housing
Fair Tax Fees
Foreclosures
Gulf Coast Recovery
Health Care
Immigration
Living Wage
Paid Sick Days
Predatory Lending
Utilities
Voter Engagement

I think there are those that can do better with the resources than ACORN.

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:38pm

re: #30 Guanxi88

Amazing - does EVERY discussion inevitably return to Halliburton and/or Iraq?

Yes.

Just not in front of Iraqis.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:50pm

re: #80 keithgabryelski

[Link: www.acorn.org…]

All I see there is a laundry list of various leftish causes, masquerading as concern for the poor, and on the taxpayer’s nickel.

The EITC assistance thing is particularly pernicious. It’s not enough that these transfer subsidies have to be in place (thank you, GHWB!), but tax dollars must be spent to ensure that everyone who might possibly be eligible for any portion of the public pie gets some.

If this is helping poor people, it’s hard to see how it does so other than binding them ever more tightly within the social welfare state.

D.C. Law Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:52pm

Locker - you really don’t want to be out there pimping for ACORN. They do not “help poor people.” They help leftists gain, keep, and exercise power. That is all.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:53pm

re: #83 Guanxi88

I’d note that the Salvation Army, among other private organizations, seems to be able to do much the same sort of thing. I’d note, further, that they appear to be able to do so without appearing to conspire to violate federal law.

Funny thing about how they do that… may have something to do with a moral compass… or some old fashioned concept like that.

keithgabryelski Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:18:54pm

re: #88 right_wing2

ACORN, and every other activist group, left or right, needs to be completely de-funded when it comes to my tax money.

Yeah, because people who are passionate about a subject are just the worse!

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:19:25pm

re: #86 Locker

acorn.org…

Affordable Housing
Better Schools
Fair Housing
Fair Tax Fees
Foreclosures
Gulf Coast Recovery
Health Care
Immigration
Living Wage
Paid Sick Days
Predatory Lending
Utilities
Voter Engagement

You left off vote stealing in NY 23rd.
and the sinking of the Lusitania.

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:19:34pm

re: #83 Guanxi88

You send in people with a hidden camera and you’ll find fraud. You’ll find it in any large organization. If the salvation army worked to register poor and minority voters FOX would be going after them as well and you’d be on here saying how corrupt they are.

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:00pm

re: #96 keithgabryelski

Yeah, because people who are passionate about a subject are just the worse!

People are entitled to their passions and causes; they are not, however, entitled to the use of others’ funds for them.

100

ryannon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:06pm

OT: French anthropologist Claude Levi-Strauss died today.

bloomberg.com

One of the fathers of my own pessimism regarding the destiny of homo sapiens.

R.I.P., Dude.

101

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:12pm

re: #56 RogueOne

Fingers crossed yes, it won’t be another California. The turnout’s apparently unusually high, but that could mean anything. However given the awful ads the anti-gay brigade have been throwing at the people of Maine, I have a horrible feeling it might pass. Hopefully the people of Main will have ignored the fear and hate mongering.

102

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:25pm

re: #91 baier

I think there are those that can do better with the resources than ACORN.

But nobody can spend the taxpayers money faster and better, and make it disappear.

Funny, I guess the recent exit by ACORN officials was because they were so innocent.

103

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:29pm

re: #96 keithgabryelski

As Yeats well put it.

104

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:37pm

re: #98 recusancy

You send in people with a hidden camera and you’ll find fraud. You’ll find it in any large organization. If the salvation army worked to register poor and minority voters FOX would be going after them as well and you’d be on here saying how corrupt they are.

The Salvation Army does not believe that there is a political solution to every problem. ACORN does. Different theological system, you see.

105

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:55pm

re: #100 ryannon

OT: French anthropologist Claude Levi-Strauss died today.

[Link: www.bloomberg.com…]

One of the fathers of my own pessimism regarding the destiny of homo sapiens.

R.I.P., Dude.

It’s nice to know we have a destiny.

106

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:20:57pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

And you see no problems with ACORN. They are totally above board and should be left alone (and before you reply, no, I didn’t say you said that, or anyone else said that, I am proposing a question).

ha— hey, I get it now why you don’t like it when i’m pedantic and parsing. It’s less fun! :)

Nah, ACORN is a corrupt organisation riddled with all kinds of problems. They’re just not the invincible, cunning, highly organised Obamanator seekrit weapon that the wingnut conspirators pretend. They’re so poorly run and disorganised that if they tried to steal an election it would probably result in it going the other way.
Similarly with the conspiracy fantasies about Soros—-there’s reasonable objections and worries and criticisms, and then there’s the freak fringe thinking he’s behind absolutely everything. Like Pammycakes here for instance:
Pamela Geller Watch: Evil Emperor George Soros is Behind LoonWatch

107

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:21:28pm

re: #98 recusancy

So Fox et al has gone after all the organizations that register poor people?
Don’t think so.

108

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:21:29pm

re: #98 recusancy

You send in people with a hidden camera and you’ll find fraud. You’ll find it in any large organization. If the salvation army worked to register poor and minority voters FOX would be going after them as well and you’d be on here saying how corrupt they are.

Tu quoque

So, that means ACORN is what… ?

109

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:21:59pm

re: #51 Locker

No every discussion inevitably returns to ACORN apparently.

From a tiny ACORN springs the great wingnut oak tree, bearing many, many wingnuts.

110

drcordell Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:22:04pm

re: #88 right_wing2

Whether they actually do in this case or not, ACORN has a strong history of pulling dirty tricks, encouraging as lax a standard as possible for absentee ballots and registration fraud.

ACORN, and every other activist group, left or right, needs to be completely de-funded when it comes to my tax money.

They hire poor, uneducated schmucks to do voter registration drives, and pay by the ballot. Naturally, these idiots try to get paid for work they didn’t do by falsifying a bunch of registration forms. With fake addresses, names and social security numbers. Meaning that nobody could ever show up to vote, even if ACORN didn’t proactively weed out as many fakes as possible.

The only people hyperventilating over this are those who consider Sean Hannity an intellectual.

111

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:22:18pm

112

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:22:42pm

re: #108 Walter L. Newton

It means they register the not affluent to vote. So their voice is heard. Is that a bad thing?

113

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:23:12pm

re: #106 iceweasel

ha— hey, I get it now why you don’t like it when i’m pedantic and parsing. It’s less fun! :)

Nah, ACORN is a corrupt organisation riddled with all kinds of problems. They’re just not the invincible, cunning, highly organised Obamanator seekrit weapon that the wingnut conspirators pretend. They’re so poorly run and disorganised that if they tried to steal an election it would probably result in it going the other way.
Similarly with the conspiracy fantasies about Soros—-there’s reasonable objections and worries and criticisms, and then there’s the freak fringe thinking he’s behind absolutely everything. Like Pammycakes here for instance:
Pamela Geller Watch: Evil Emperor George Soros is Behind LoonWatch

I have no problem with Soros, really. He has a lot of money, and he’s going to play the game, the same as Murdoch (sp?)… they win, loose and sometimes go to jail.

114

drcordell Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:23:52pm

re: #112 recusancy

It means they register the not affluent to vote. So their voice is heard. Is that a bad thing?

If you’re the GOP, yes.

115

keithgabryelski Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:24:14pm

re: #99 Guanxi88

People are entitled to their passions and causes; they are not, however, entitled to the use of others’ funds for them.

I define bliss as when public funds are presented to a group who just happens to be passionate about the cause.

116

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:24:18pm

re: #111 MandyManners

You forgot How to Commit Fraud when Pimping Under-Age, Illegal Hookers.

Wasn’t that part of voter engagement?

117

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:25:01pm

118

Shiplord Kirel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:25:27pm

ACORN did move very quickly to fire the idiots who fell for the Baltimore brothel scam. Since it is against the law to lynch them, I’m not sure what else could have been done.

119

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:25:30pm

re: #86 Locker

acorn.org…

Affordable Housing
Better Schools
Fair Housing
Fair Tax Fees
Foreclosures
Gulf Coast Recovery
Health Care
Immigration
Living Wage
Paid Sick Days
Predatory Lending
Utilities
Voter Engagement

Let’s go down this list:

Affordable Housing : When did HUD get defunded?
Better Schools: They got rid of the Department of Education, too?
Fair Housing: Again, who killed HUD?
Fair Tax Fees: It’s unconscionable that taxes in any form should be paid by anyone other than class enemies.
Gulf Coast Recovery: Looks like FEMA got killed, too!
Health Care: Medicare and medicaid got defunded, I suppose?
Immigration: Why shouldn’t we import more poor people?
Living wage: The best way to fight unemployment is to make labor more excpensive.
Paid sick days: Who knew I had ACORN to thank for this?
Predatory Lending: Funny, I thought the usury laws were still enforced.
Utilities: ACORN makes electricity? Who knew
Voter Engagement: I thought Motor Voter was still in effect.

They don’t do a damned thing worth doing that’s not already done elsewhere.

120

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:25:41pm

In major flip, House Dems now represent richest regions

Weird how that happens just when you play the class warfare angle.

121

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:26:15pm

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

I worry this a bit-From this perspective. We totally depend on one (still living) adult citizen=1 vote. How close to $1=1vote doe we want to get?

122

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:26:38pm

re: #115 keithgabryelski

I define bliss as when public funds are presented to a group who just happens to be passionate about the cause.

That’s a recipe for disaster. Passionate commitment is no substitute for sound judgment.

123

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:26:51pm

re: #119 Guanxi88

Let’s go down this list:

Gulf Coast Recovery: Looks like FEMA got killed, too!
Health Care: Medicare and medicaid got defunded, I suppose?
Immigration: Why shouldn’t we import more poor people?
Living wage: The best way to fight unemployment is to make labor more excpensive.
Paid sick days: Who knew I had ACORN to thank for this?
Predatory Lending: Funny, I thought the usury laws were still enforced.
Utilities: ACORN makes electricity? Who knew
Voter Engagement: I thought Motor Voter was still in effect.

They don’t do a damned thing worth doing that’s not already done elsewhere.

True. But they do it really well.

124

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:27:06pm

re: #120 Ben Hur

In major flip, House Dems now represent richest regions

Weird how that happens just when you play the class warfare angle.

From the article:
“The Democratic-controlled House is now an unusual combination of the richest and poorest districts, the best and least educated, and the best and the worst insured.”

125

drcordell Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:27:15pm

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

ACORN did move very quickly to fire the idiots who fell for the Baltimore brothel scam. Since it is against the law to lynch them, I’m not sure what else could have been done.

Not to mention one of the workers “caught” helping the “prostitute” on camera actually called the police immediately after she left.

126

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:27:15pm

re: #112 recusancy

It means they register the not affluent to vote. So their voice is heard. Is that a bad thing?

No. A lot of the other corrupt things they have been caught doing are bad… see re: #106.

127

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:27:19pm

re: #120 Ben Hur

I’m not sure how that could surprise anyone. It’s obvious.

128

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:27:24pm

re: #118 Shiplord Kirel

They have been less active enforcing registration rules. Despite the busts.

129

right_wing2 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:27:37pm

ACORN’s against any kind of voter ID, yet leftist groups like them pushed for Motor Voter’. Scared that some of their thugs might get caught voting multiple times?

130

bratwurst Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:28:16pm

re: #125 drcordell

Not to mention one of the workers “caught” helping the “prostitute” on camera actually called the police immediately after she left.

And the fact that the intrepid journalists involved had to visit several offices before they found ACORN employees willing to take them seriously.

131

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:28:29pm

re: #94 D.C. Law

Locker - you really don’t want to be out there pimping for ACORN. They do not “help poor people.” They help leftists gain, keep, and exercise power. That is all.

Muahahahahahah! First we get the money, then we get the power…

…and then we get the women!

/Scarface

132

drcordell Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:28:51pm

re: #128 rightwingconspirator

They have been less active enforcing registration rules. Despite the busts.

Explain exactly how false voter registrations lead to actual voter fraud in any way, shape or form? How are you going to swing an election, hire 3,000 bums to vote once with their real registration and then truck them around town to vote again in a second precinct with fake ID’s created to match their fraudulent voter registrations?

133

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:29:32pm

re: #85 OneMonkeysUncle

Oh, irony is far from dead out on the right-most fringes of Winuttistan today…

It’s their most important vitamin!re: #113 Walter L. Newton

I have no problem with Soros, really. He has a lot of money, and he’s going to play the game, the same as Murdoch (sp?)… they win, loose and sometimes go to jail.

Yeah, that’s my feeling also. i don’t see any difference.
We may disagree on many things, but we do share the recognition that the plutocracy and the kleptocacy exists, it is not influencing only one party, and the one infallible prediction is that their interests will always be served by our political elites— regardless of whether there is a D or an R behind the name.
/least, i think we do share that recognition. Sorry if I’m mischaracterising you here.

134

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #72 Guanxi88

“Halliburton (who…is the ONLY contractor able to meet the needs of a range of government and private sector needs…)”

Companies like Halliburton, Boeing, Grumman Northrup, Raytheon all occupy a similar position as Sole Suppliers of vital goods & services, which makes them eligible for no-bid, cost-plus government contracts: in other words a License to Print Money.

Profit guaranteed.

And since they are defense & security related, there is a minimum of fiscal oversight =

License to Print Obscene Amounts of Money.

135

Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:29:45pm

UPDATE: Anton Troianovski of the Wall Street Journal followed up with the Plattsburgh police on this, and was told that the volunteer actually damaged his tire on a broken bottle.

Lol@wingnuts

136

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:29:46pm

re: #125 drcordell

Not to mention one of the workers “caught” helping the “prostitute” on camera actually called the police immediately after she left.

Wasn’t there a thread about this?

Something about a cousin that’s a cop?

137

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:29:47pm

re: #132 drcordell

Explain exactly how false voter registrations lead to actual voter fraud in any way, shape or form? How are you going to swing an election, hire 3,000 bums to vote once with their real registration and then truck them around town to vote again in a second precinct with fake ID’s created to match their fraudulent voter registrations?

You make me homesick for Chicago. I miss the good ol’ days.

138

jeremy0114 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:29:52pm

re: #131 WindUpBird

Muahahahahahah! First we get the money, then we get the power…

…and then we get the women!

/Scarface

Up ding for that! Gonna have to pull that DVD out tonight and watch it now…

139

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:30:03pm

re: #124 recusancy

From the article:
“The Democratic-controlled House is now an unusual combination of the richest and poorest districts, the best and least educated, and the best and the worst insured.”

Youtube Video

/Approves
//Rich and dumb

140

Carlos Dangler Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:30:05pm

re: #74 Locker

Piss off…

141

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:30:54pm

Is Halliburton still operating in Iraq and A’stan?

142

right_wing2 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:31:46pm

re: #96 keithgabryelski

The passion isn’t the point. The point is that I shouldn’t pay for things your passionate about any more than you should pay for things I’m passionate about.

143

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:31:55pm

re: #129 right_wing2

ACORN’s against any kind of voter ID, yet leftist groups like them pushed for Motor Voter’. Scared that some of their thugs might get caught voting multiple times?

Like Mickey Mouse?

144

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:32:53pm

re: #133 iceweasel

Yeah, that’s my feeling also. i don’t see any difference.
We may disagree on many things, but we do share the recognition that the plutocracy and the kleptocacy exists, it is not influencing only one party, and the one infallible prediction is that their interests will always be served by our political elites— regardless of whether there is a D or an R behind the name.
/least, i think we do share that recognition. Sorry if I’m mischaracterising you here.

No, you are not mischaracterizing me at all. If you and I were able to sit on some “committee” who’s sole purpose was to bring down and stop the plutocracy and the kleptocracy, people would think we were in love… (er, not so much on other issue though).

P.S. Watch those British spelling like “mischaracterising.”

145

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:33:08pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

And to think people were worried that we’d have nothing to laugh at when Bush left.

146

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:33:55pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Yeah, but.. but… that bottle was planted by an ACORN operative!!1!ELEVENTY!

147

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:33:59pm

re: #133 iceweasel

Hi Ice-Dub.. You doing ok?
In Indiana you can’t buy booze on election day.. I think they have it exactly wrong…Sometimes I wished I could just black out and not remember who the hell I pulled the lever for.
*wink*

148

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:34:00pm

re: #145 Merryweather

And to think people were worried that we’d have nothing to laugh at when Bush left.

People still laugh.

Just very quietly in their parlors, not on TV.

149

keithgabryelski Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:34:11pm

re: #122 Guanxi88

That’s a recipe for disaster. Passionate commitment is no substitute for sound judgment.

They are not mutually exclusive and given that this group is passionate about the subject that is legally/rightfully funded — i’d say “sound judgement” is the default assumption, since they are there and have been thinking about this issues for a while.

150

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:34:44pm

re: #132 drcordell
Straw man-More than homeless people are in this.
Lets say I can’t tie that knot. For arguments sake. So why have registration laws at all? Lets say I can… A person could register multiple places and drive themselves to each and vote.

151

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:35:01pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Lol@wingnuts

Help! There’s a large white glowing UFO above my house!

Ma’am? That’s the moon.

152

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:35:25pm

bbl

153

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:35:41pm

re: #149 keithgabryelski

They are not mutually exclusive and given that this group is passionate about the subject that is legally/rightfully funded — i’d say “sound judgement” is the default assumption, since they are there and have been thinking about this issues for a while.

The Rushdoony strand of theocratic Christian nationalism has been thinking for a very long time indeed about a great many issues. They are passionate, organized, and committed to their causes. And they don’t deserve a single f*cking dime.

154

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:36:00pm

re: #122 Guanxi88

That’s a recipe for disaster. Passionate commitment is no substitute for sound judgment.

And dispassion does not equal sound judgment.

155

Vicious Babushka Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:36:33pm

re: #148 Ben Hur

People still laugh.

Just very quietly in their parlors, not on TV.

In bed.

156

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:36:36pm

re: #154 recusancy

And dispassion does not equal sound judgment.

No, but it’s generally a good indicator of the absence of poor judgment.

157

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:38:03pm

re: #156 Guanxi88

No, but it’s generally a good indicator of the absence of poor judgment.

Do you feel passionate about that claim?

158

Honorary Yooper Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:38:09pm

re: #132 drcordell

Explain exactly how false voter registrations lead to actual voter fraud in any way, shape or form? How are you going to swing an election, hire 3,000 bums to vote once with their real registration and then truck them around town to vote again in a second precinct with fake ID’s created to match their fraudulent voter registrations?

Ever been to Chicago or Cook County come election time?

159

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:38:37pm

re: #133 iceweasel

Off subject, but have you seen this?

Youtube Video

heatcity.org

160

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:38:42pm

re: #151 Ben Hur

Help! There’s a large white glowing UFO above my house!

Ma’am? That’s the moon.

Nah.. It’s Balloonboy II…A new Fox reality show

161

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:39:12pm

re: #160 HoosierHoops

Free tin hats and 3d glasses…

162

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:39:24pm

re: #151 Ben Hur

Hard to believe, but in the UK, someone really did think the moon was a UFO.

The moon was mistaken for a “bright, stationary” UFO which had been loitering for at least half an hour, by a confused local in South Wales who made a 999 call to the police.

163

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:40:17pm

re: #106 iceweasel

It’s like, you never attribute to evil that which can be explained by incompetence. But since evil makes for better political red meat than incompetence, that’s what gets leveled against ACORN, by every single right wing radio jock, every columnist, every cable news host. ACORN’s alleged cosmic world-shaking ability to consolidate power and be some super-effective army that the Left can use against its enemies, it’s a talking point. Hollow as an eggshell. It’s been a talking point since the campaign, and it’s been pounded into the ground so hard it came out in Middle Earth. I STILL hear people saying that ACORN “stole” the election for Obama. And I laugh and laugh and laugh.

164

keithgabryelski Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:40:34pm

re: #153 Guanxi88

The Rushdoony strand of theocratic Christian nationalism has been thinking for a very long time indeed about a great many issues. They are passionate, organized, and committed to their causes. And they don’t deserve a single f*cking dime.

we agree that there are some people who are passionate about dangerous things, and some that are passionate about unfundable things.

We aren’t talking about them.

The area is funded, ACORN is passionate and essentially an honest broker (not every person that works for ACORN is honest, but by-and-large they are).

165

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:40:36pm

re: #158 Honorary Yooper

Ever been to Chicago or Cook County come election time?

I am from Chicago. Elections are cleaner than that; The dirty work occurs behind the scenes long before an election occurs. By the way, it’s called Crook county.

166

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:40:52pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

No, you are not mischaracterizing me at all. If you and I were able to sit on some “committee” who’s sole purpose was to bring down and stop the plutocracy and the kleptocracy, people would think we were in love… (er, not so much on other issue though).

P.S. Watch those British spelling like “mischaracterising.”

Clarice…people will say we are in love. :)
I can hardly spell the word characterise to begin with, apart from the US/Brit spelling issues. I don’t know why but it’s one that always gives me trouble. Also Caricature. (Had to use spell check on that one)

167

Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:41:22pm

re: #140 talon_262

Piss off…

Didn’t you get the ACORN memo?
They are just good folks doing good community organizing of dem poor ethnic folk, to help them help the good Party get elected and stay in power. And for that, ACORN deserves a big fat Presidential pass for any trifling indiscretions.
//*spit*//

168

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:41:54pm

re: #162 Merryweather

Hard to believe, but in the UK, someone really did think the moon was a UFO.

Precisely what I was referring to.

169

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:42:11pm

re: #162 Merryweather

Hard to believe, but in the UK, someone really did think the moon was a UFO.

“Hello? 911? Oh God! There are these strange pink tendrils at the corners of my vision that keep grabbing my possessions and manipulating them! I can’t make them go away! I need help!”

“Sir, those are your arms.”

170

abbyadams Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:42:49pm

re: #136 Ben Hur

“Our cousin, he’s a cop, and he puked, and he said to come here…and get free beer.”

171

Ben Hur Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:42:56pm

OK.

Now I reallyhave to go’

172

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:43:01pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

It’s like, you never attribute to evil that which can be explained by incompetence. But since evil makes for better political red meat than incompetence, that’s what gets leveled against ACORN, by every single right wing radio jock, every columnist, every cable news host. ACORN’s alleged cosmic world-shaking ability to consolidate power and be some super-effective army that the Left can use against its enemies, it’s a talking point. Hollow as an eggshell. It’s been a talking point since the campaign, and it’s been pounded into the ground so hard it came out in Middle Earth. I STILL hear people saying that ACORN “stole” the election for Obama. And I laugh and laugh and laugh.

I agree.

All of the incompetence at Haliburton has been bothering me for years. I know, I would rather call them evil and be done with it, and I know that’s hollow, but I just can’t help myself sometimes.

173

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:43:24pm

re: #170 abbyadams

“Our cousin, he’s a cop, and he puked, and he said to come here…and get free beer.”

sadder budweiser.

174

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:43:27pm

re: #166 iceweasel

Clarice…people will say we are in love. :)
I can hardly spell the word characterise to begin with, apart from the US/Brit spelling issues. I don’t know why but it’s one that always gives me trouble. Also Caricature. (Had to use spell check on that one)

Bloody good answer :)

175

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:43:40pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

Ha. I based my nic on this very thing. You are correct. Stupidity outnumbers conspiracy. Flip the coin. I am reminded of Hilary’s vast right wing conspiracy, and how Bush41 flew to Iran in an SR 71. It’s all crap. Birthers, deathers, truthers, it never ends.

It’s why I’m here not at Hot Air. or (fill in blank)

176

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:44:00pm

re: #147 HoosierHoops

Hi Ice-Dub.. You doing ok?
In Indiana you can’t buy booze on election day.. I think they have it exactly wrong…Sometimes I wished I could just black out and not remember who the hell I pulled the lever for.
*wink*

Hey Sir Hoops-a-lot! I’m radiant, honey. :) How are you? You made me laugh with that!

177

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:44:46pm

re: #173 Stuart Leviton

It’s getting drafty.

178

Randall Gross Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:45:21pm

I expect barrels of bilious spume if he loses.

179

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:45:51pm

re: #178 Thanos

I expect barrels of bilious spume if he loses.

and beer if he wins?

180

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:45:54pm

re: #172 Walter L. Newton

I agree.

All of the incompetence at Haliburton has been bothering me for years. I know, I would rather call them evil and be done with it, and I know that’s hollow, but I just can’t help myself sometimes.

Halliburton is incompetence plus war zone minus oversight. Which is a pretty frightening combination.

181

Honorary Yooper Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:46:16pm

re: #165 Stuart Leviton

I am from Chicago. Elections are cleaner than that; The dirty work occurs behind the scenes long before an election occurs. By the way, it’s called Crook county.

I’ve seen. I, fortuantely, and not always so fortuantely, live one county away and get to see this circus on the local news.

There are times I thank goodness I don’t live in Cook County, but wished Cook County wasn’t in Illinois.

182

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:46:37pm

re: #164 keithgabryelski

we agree that there are some people who are passionate about dangerous things, and some that are passionate about unfundable things.

We aren’t talking about them.

The area is funded, ACORN is passionate and essentially an honest broker (not every person that works for ACORN is honest, but by-and-large they are).

ACORN is passionate primarily, about ensuring the uninterrupted flow of tribute to the client class of one political party in the United States, and are willing to ensure the registration and voting of this class, whose elected representatives decide what is or is not fundable.

183

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:46:37pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

Both sides have been guilty of that though. I’ve lost count of the references to ‘President Gore’ and an awful lot of the left are still convinced to this day that Bush stole the 2000 election. I am no fan of Bush by any means, but he was elected fair and square. And I also think he was incompetent, not evil. Cheney on the other hand…

184

Randall Gross Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:46:43pm

re: #179 Stuart Leviton

A beer to cry in sounds fine.

185

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:46:43pm

re: #83 Guanxi88

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is a federal law

186

enoughalready Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:46:55pm

I don’t know why but this article reminded me of a Sisters of Mercy song from a couple of years ago (see, it’s when you say something like that and then realize a couple of years is a number > 15 that you KNOW that you are getting a bit long in the tooth).

It’s a small world and it smells bad
I’d buy another if I had
back
what I paid
for another motherf—-er in a motorcade

(and don’t ask me why I made this connection, call it stream of subconsciousness)

187

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:47:53pm

re: #162 Merryweather

Hard to believe, but in the UK, someone really did think the moon was a UFO.

“Tup, but not so tup as not to know he’s tup.”

188

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:47:56pm

re: #180 WindUpBird

Halliburton is incompetence plus war zone minus oversight. Which is a pretty frightening combination.

No, they’re just incompetent. I laugh and laugh and laugh…

189

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:48:09pm

re: #175 Rightwingconspirator

Ha. I based my nic on this very thing. You are correct. Stupidity outnumbers conspiracy. Flip the coin. I am reminded of Hilary’s vast right wing conspiracy, and how Bush41 flew to Iran in an SR 71. It’s all crap. Birthers, deathers, truthers, it never ends.

It’s why I’m here not at Hot Air. or (fill in blank)

Now I’m googling the SR-71 thing. That is the most goth aircraft of all time. :D

(ooohhh, it’s the hostage crisis, found it)

190

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:48:30pm

re: #159 RogueOne

Off subject, but have you seen this?

[Link: www.heatcity.org…]

OMG! NO! WTF? Favourited. Appalling. Did radley balko write about this, do you know? I have to start looking at that coverage of his you recommended on corruption/abuse.

191

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:48:33pm

re: #185 philosophus invidius

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is a federal law

Yes, yes it is.

192

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:49:09pm

re: #181 Honorary Yooper

I’ve seen. I, fortuantely, and not always so fortuantely, live one county away and get to see this circus on the local news.

There are times I thank goodness I don’t live in Cook County, but wished Cook County wasn’t in Illinois.

But then you’d lose that great baseball team: The Cubs.

193

enoughalready Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:49:45pm

re: #182 Guanxi88

ACORN is passionate primarily, about ensuring the uninterrupted flow of tribute to the client class of one political party in the United States, and are willing to ensure the registration and voting of this class, whose elected representatives decide what is or is not fundable.

Similar arguments have been made about the “hidden agenda” of environmental groups, gay rights groups and so on. This is simply a pathos argument without substance. I think there are some unsavory elements involved with ACORN but by and large I think they do more good than bad.

However, mr Hoffman refers to them as if they were some sort of stormtroopers of the New World Or… oh wait.

194

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:49:59pm

re: #190 iceweasel

theagitator.com

195

Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:50:15pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

It’s like, you never attribute to evil that which can be explained by incompetence. But since evil makes for better political red meat than incompetence, that’s what gets leveled against ACORN, by every single right wing radio jock, every columnist, every cable news host. ACORN’s alleged cosmic world-shaking ability to consolidate power and be some super-effective army that the Left can use against its enemies, it’s a talking point. Hollow as an eggshell. It’s been a talking point since the campaign, and it’s been pounded into the ground so hard it came out in Middle Earth. I STILL hear people saying that ACORN “stole” the election for Obama. And I laugh and laugh and laugh.

ACORN is a crooked Dem political tool.
Attempts to rationalize and whitewash the voter registration fraud, the counselling to commit fraud, and the gross mismanagement which allowed the misconduct, all reek of partisan idiocy.

196

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:50:55pm

re: #193 enoughalready

Similar arguments have been made about the “hidden agenda” of environmental groups, gay rights groups and so on. This is simply a pathos argument without substance. I think there are some unsavory elements involved with ACORN but by and large I think they do more good than bad.

However, mr Hoffman refers to them as if they were some sort of stormtroopers of the New World Or… oh wait.

Hoffman’s a joke.
ACORN’s a publicly-funded wing of a political party.

197

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:51:13pm

re: #182 Guanxi88

ACORN is passionate primarily, about ensuring the uninterrupted flow of tribute to the client class of one political party in the United States, and are willing to ensure the registration and voting of this class, whose elected representatives decide what is or is not fundable.

This is more or less true, if stated in a somewhat harsh way. Poor people vote their interests, and that usually means voting Democrat. And ACORN is not going to help people in the Hamptons or Aspen, Colorado register to vote. You say tribute (as if it were to a king) whereas I’d say “help” or “resources” or maybe “stuff”.

198

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:51:35pm

re: #195 Spare O’Lake

ACORN is a crooked Dem political tool.
Attempts to rationalize and whitewash the voter registration fraud, the counselling to commit fraud, and the gross mismanagement which allowed the misconduct, all reek of partisan idiocy.

Oh come on… why should that stop him from trying :)

199

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:51:36pm

re: #192 Stuart Leviton

But then you’d lose that great baseball team: The Cubs.

I’m offering my services to be the Cubs GM…It may be your City’s only hope…

200

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:51:37pm

Category win some lose some…
The infamous judge in Louisiana has resigned.
I call this one win for the good guys!!!

cnn.com

201

Stuart Leviton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:51:45pm

re: #192 Stuart Leviton

But then you’d lose that great baseball team: The Cubs.

You know, funny you mentioned the counties outside of Chicago. Last election I got a letter from Lake County (Northbrook) asking about my voters’ registration. I haven’t lived in Northbrook for twenty-five years.

202

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:51:45pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

It’s like, you never attribute to evil that which can be explained by incompetence. But since evil makes for better political red meat than incompetence, that’s what gets leveled against ACORN, by every single right wing radio jock, every columnist, every cable news host. ACORN’s alleged cosmic world-shaking ability to consolidate power and be some super-effective army that the Left can use against its enemies, it’s a talking point. Hollow as an eggshell. It’s been a talking point since the campaign, and it’s been pounded into the ground so hard it came out in Middle Earth. I STILL hear people saying that ACORN “stole” the election for Obama. And I laugh and laugh and laugh.

heh. Me too, sometimes. I’m liking you more and more. :)
And as for the first part of your comment, yeah, wellsaid! but it also applies to the left who have their (our) own boogiemen and tendency to attribute eeevil instead of just incompetence.

203

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:52:29pm

re: #191 Guanxi88

Yes, yes it is.

And Halliburton agreed to pay $559 Million dollars for violating that law. That that is the largest fine paid under that federal law by a U.S. company.

204

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:52:32pm

re: #193 enoughalready

The hidden agenda of us queers is to get enough of us in power that we get to redesign the money and put rainbows and glitter and Freddie Mercury’s face on it.

There, I said it. :D

205

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:53:14pm

re: #197 WindUpBird

You say tribute (as if it were to a king) whereas I’d say “help” or “resources” or maybe “stuff”.

Given that the intended recipients of this “help, resources, or stuff” are the group doing the voting that puts these people into office and ensures they stay there, I’d say it’s a definite tribute payment to a client. It’s not without precedent, and has a long and honorable lineage, particularly in the Classical Rome.

206

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:53:30pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

The hidden agenda of us queers is to get enough of us in power that we get to redesign the money and put rainbows and glitter and Freddie Mercury’s face on it.

There, I said it. :D

No… Liza!!!

207

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:53:33pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

The hidden agenda of us queers is to get enough of us in power that we get to redesign the money and put rainbows and glitter and Freddie Mercury’s face on it.

There, I said it. :D

I’d buy a Freddie Mercury dime!

208

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:53:55pm

re: #189 WindUpBird

Is that not just the weirdest theory you could have read at least up to then?

209

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:53:58pm

re: #153 Guanxi88

The Rushdoony strand of theocratic Christian nationalism has been thinking for a very long time indeed about a great many issues. They are passionate, organized, and committed to their causes. And they don’t deserve a single f*cking dime.

Amen and amen.
That is one scary group of people.

ACORN’s demise is too bad. They began in the 70’s in Little Rock as an organization to help people on welfare and of low incomes get their basic needs taken care of.
“ACORN’s goal was to “unite welfare recipients with needy working people around issues such as school lunches, unemployment, Vietnam veterans’ rights, and emergency room care.”[
Good goals.

They also fought red lining in neighborhoods in Little Rock which, of course, made them some powerful enemies.
In the end the group seems to be their own worse enemies.

In regards to voter registration in most of the cases where fraud was committed ACORN itself were the ones to find the fraud, point it out to the state authorities and turned in the bad registrations like the law requires.
Fraudulent voter registrations do not mean that any of those fake people actually voted.

210

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:54:03pm

211

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:54:15pm

re: #200 Rightwingconspirator

Excellent. Now if No on 1 can win in Maine, it’ll be a very bad day indeed for bigotry.

212

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:54:24pm

re: #203 philosophus invidius

And Halliburton agreed to pay $559 Million dollars for violating that law. That that is the largest fine paid under that federal law by a U.S. company.

Halliburton does not hold itself out as anything other than a business; they make no moral claims, and I make none for them.

213

enoughalready Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:55:02pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

The hidden agenda of us queers is to get enough of us in power that we get to redesign the money and put rainbows and glitter and Freddie Mercury’s face on it.

There, I said it. :D

Hey, I respect a guy with a moustache that size. Rainbows and glitter? Hey, whatever floats your boat. I for one welcome our new queer overlords.

214

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:55:28pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

The hidden agenda of us queers is to get enough of us in power that we get to redesign the money and put rainbows and glitter and Freddie Mercury’s face on it.

There, I said it. :D

It’s sad Freddie is no longer with us.. I’ll bet he sing the National Anthem better than any person in History..Well except for the version Whitney Houston did once…
What a wonderful talent
RIP Freddie

215

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:55:29pm

re: #209 webevintage

ACORN exists to implement the old Cloward-Priven strategy of swamping the welfare state with more demands for services than it can provide.

216

keithgabryelski Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:55:35pm

re: #182 Guanxi88

ACORN is passionate primarily, about ensuring the uninterrupted flow of tribute to the client class of one political party in the United States, and are willing to ensure the registration and voting of this class, whose elected representatives decide what is or is not fundable.

It would seem ACORN is passionate about helping lower income people — garnering support from any politician that will help them with their goals seems like standard operation procedure, to me.

so, i guess I agree with every word except “primarily” in your paragraph, and I don’t see a problem with it.

217

Sharmuta Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:56:14pm

“There are reports that they’re bringing in the troops and they’re bringing in ACORN,” said Hoffman. “I think the Democrats are doing anything they possibly can to steal this election away from the 23rd district.”

I think the nativist theo-cons will do anything to portray themselves as victims of teh big bad left. You can popularize victimhood while simultaneously demonizing your opponents. It’s a two-fer.

218

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:56:52pm

219

avanti Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:56:57pm

Some good news on post CFC auto sales.

Sales.

220

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:56:59pm

re: #206 Walter L. Newton

No… Liza!!!

NOOO

(also, don’t ask me about the Judy Garland thing, I don’t understand it either)

221

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:58:01pm

re: #217 Sharmuta

Three-fer really, because the conservatives then accuse liberals of being the ones wallowing in victimhood.

222

Sharmuta Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:58:12pm

re: #218 MandyManners

But, can they pat their heads and rub their bellies at the same time?

They’re politicians. They can lie and talk at the same time.

223

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:58:15pm

re: #217 Sharmuta

I think the nativist theo-cons will do anything to portray themselves as victims of teh big bad left. You can popularize victimhood while simultaneously demonizing your opponents. It’s a two-fer.

I used to think that was just cynicism. I’m starting to think they believe
it in a disturbing way.

224

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:58:37pm

re: #212 Guanxi88

So, moral claims aside, if you were dispassionate about this - and therefore of good judgment - you’d go after the biggest waste in dollars first. The no bid contracts.

But it seems you go after Acorn a disproportionate amount. Why would that be?

225

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 2:58:59pm

re: #214 HoosierHoops

It’s sad Freddie is no longer with us.. I’ll bet he sing the National Anthem better than any person in History..Well except for the version Whitney Houston did once…
What a wonderful talent
RIP Freddie

Marvin

226

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:00:23pm

re: #204 WindUpBird

The hidden agenda of us queers is to get enough of us in power that we get to redesign the money and put rainbows and glitter and Freddie Mercury’s face on it.

There, I said it. :D

Is that the infamous “Gay Agenda” I’ve been hearing so much about?

227

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:00:59pm

re: #195 Spare O’Lake

ACORN is a crooked Dem political tool.
Attempts to rationalize and whitewash the voter registration fraud, the counselling to commit fraud, and the gross mismanagement which allowed the misconduct, all reek of partisan idiocy.

No one’s whitewashed the registration fraud. Not even ACORN, who themselves were responsible for at least one investigation resulting in the arrests of 11 employees in FL— ACORN spotted the irregularities and turned their own workers in.
The partisan idiocy (and conspiracy theory) is all coming from the people who are convinced they are as someone said above some super James Bond type of vilian. SPECTRE or something.
Example: lots of places like Fox blared about the FL arrests…but didn’t mention that the investigation was entirely due to ACORN tipping off the FBI.
ACORN Praised by Prosecutors for Fighting Voter Registration Fraud
Sure, they have problems, but they’re not SPECTRE.

228

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:02:03pm

229

fizzlogic Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:03:10pm

re: #159 RogueOne

Off subject, but have you seen this?

[Video]

[Link: www.heatcity.org…]

It seems this defense attorney doesn’t know her place or understand the two officers’ sense self-entitlement. If this had happened outside of court, I suspect she would have been tasered and forcibly arrested for her protest.

230

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:03:36pm

re: #229 trendsurfer

It seems this defense attorney doesn’t know her place or understand the two officers’ sense self-entitlement. If this had happened outside of court, I suspect she would have been tasered and forcibly arrested for her protest.

and shot her dog.

231

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:04:37pm

232

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:04:38pm

Following up on the Louisiana Judge

“Despite a national uproar and a call by Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal for him to lose his license, Bardwell, 56, said in October that he had no regrets. “It’s kind of hard to apologize for something that you really and truly feel down in your heart you haven’t done wrong,” he told CNN affiliate WAFB.”

233

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:06:26pm

re: #226 Slumbering Behemoth

Is that the infamous “Gay Agenda” I’ve been hearing so much about?

Operation Galileo.

234

wrenchwench Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:06:26pm

re: #232 Rightwingconspirator

Following up on the Louisiana Judge

“Despite a national uproar and a call by Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal for him to lose his license, Bardwell, 56, said in October that he had no regrets. “It’s kind of hard to apologize for something that you really and truly feel down in your heart you haven’t done wrong,” he told CNN affiliate WAFB.”

RS McCain can understand that. “It’s natural to feel revulsion.”

235

Sharmuta Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:07:04pm

The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they’re gay. You don’t have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that’s what brings me into it.

-Barry Goldwater

236

Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:07:12pm

Aaacooorn iz everywherez!
New Jersey Hospital Denies Claim That ACORN Workers Collected Absentee Ballots

237

Walter L. Newton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:07:24pm

re: #231 MandyManners

If that doesn’t send shivers down your spine, you’re dead.

I agree… the same shivers you get from fingernails on a chalkboard… her singing annoys me to no end.

238

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:09:11pm

re: #230 RogueOne

and shot her dog.

Even if the dog had a broken back.

239

Jack Burton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:09:30pm

re: #106 iceweasel

ha— hey, I get it now why you don’t like it when i’m pedantic and parsing. It’s less fun! :)

Nah, ACORN is a corrupt organisation riddled with all kinds of problems. They’re just not the invincible, cunning, highly organised Obamanator seekrit weapon that the wingnut conspirators pretend. They’re so poorly run and disorganised that if they tried to steal an election it would probably result in it going the other way.
Similarly with the conspiracy fantasies about Soros—-there’s reasonable objections and worries and criticisms, and then there’s the freak fringe thinking he’s behind absolutely everything. Like Pammycakes here for instance:
Pamela Geller Watch: Evil Emperor George Soros is Behind LoonWatch

That’s just what I would expect from his emissary, The Mouth of Soros.

240

Baboon Cheeks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:10:05pm

OT : from Harry’s Place -

British Muslims for Secular Democracy

David T, November 3rd 2009, 1:04 pm

There is a nice write up of Saturday’s counter demonstration by BMSD against Al Muhajiroun on CiF.

Al Muhaj were, of course, too chicken to face democrats and supporters of liberal democracy.

But they were not unopposed.

hurryupharry.org

241

Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:10:50pm

re: #227 iceweasel

Yes they do have problems, and noone said they were an organization seeking world domination - they are simply a publicly funded organizational tool of the Democratic party in sheep’s clothing.

But their biggest problem is that ACORN is being slowly and gently eased under the bus…

242

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:11:20pm

re: #227 iceweasel

Example: lots of places like Fox blared about the FL arrests…but didn’t mention that the investigation was entirely due to ACORN tipping off the FBI.

FOX would not want to actually tell the whole story since it does not go along with the whole ACORN is the most ebil-ist boogie-man evah!!111!!!
Plus who will Beck blame if Hoffman loses?

243

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:12:10pm

re: #239 ArchangelMichael

That’s just what I would expect from his emissary, The Mouth of Soros.

/

Hee. Hey, AM! S’up?
The Mouth of ~~Satan~~ Soros, I like it. :)

244

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:12:31pm

re: #226 Slumbering Behemoth

ahahahahahaha that is genius. :D

245

rurality Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:13:05pm

Cripes. “ACORN, Soros, Gore”, The mantra of the paranoid and deranged/stupid. Can’t the right come up with some other strawmen/villians? It’s really getting old. And I havent heard of one fraudulent vote that can be attributed to the efforts of ACORN, fraudulent registration, yes. An actual, election steelin vote, NO.

246

Sharmuta Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:13:36pm

re: #245 rurality

Cripes. “ACORN, Soros, Gore”, The mantra of the paranoid and deranged/stupid. Can’t the right come up with some other strawmen/villians? It’s really getting old. And I havent heard of one fraudulent vote that can be attributed to the efforts of ACORN, fraudulent registration, yes. An actual, election steelin vote, NO.

I blame Haliburton.

247

RogueOne Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:13:42pm

So what’s everyones guess on Jersey? I think Corzine will end up squeaking in.

248

paint-right Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:14:16pm

re: #228 MandyManners

Thanks, Mandy. Unbeatable in her prime.

Hope her comeback is the real deal.

249

Political Atheist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:15:09pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Where are the old school conservatives? We need you back.
O.S.cons?

250

abolitionist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:15:35pm

re: #163 WindUpBird

It’s like, you never attribute to evil that which can be explained by incompetence. But since evil makes for better political red meat than incompetence, that’s what gets leveled against ACORN, by every single right wing radio jock, every columnist, every cable news host. ACORN’s alleged cosmic world-shaking ability to consolidate power and be some super-effective army that the Left can use against its enemies, it’s a talking point. Hollow as an eggshell. It’s been a talking point since the campaign, and it’s been pounded into the ground so hard it came out in Middle Earth. I STILL hear people saying that ACORN “stole” the election for Obama. And I laugh and laugh and laugh.

Please see here: Obama, Acorn, And Election Fraud

Our President has a significant history with ACORN. He has been a trainer and attorney for ACORN. OBAMA CAUGHT SAYING ACORN AND FRIENDS WILL SHAPE HIS PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA

Or keep laughing. Your choice.

251

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:16:07pm

re: #241 Spare O’Lake

But their biggest problem is that ACORN is being slowly and gently eased under the bus…

In that case I guess there’s nothing for the people who fear them to worry about. /

Here’s some Ronettes for you; meant to post it this morning!:

Youtube Video

252

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:16:47pm

re: #214 HoosierHoops

Freddie really was the ultimate rock star. I don’t think we as a music culture will ever see someone of his epic ROCKSTAR-NESS again.

253

Jack Burton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:16:56pm

re: #243 iceweasel

Hee. Hey, AM! S’up?
The Mouth of ~~Satan~~ Soros, I like it. :)

“We do not come to treat with the Dark Lord Soros… faithless and accursed. Tell your master this. The armies of commies must disband and he is to depart these lands never to return.”

254

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:17:08pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they’re gay. You don’t have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that’s what brings me into it.

-Barry Goldwater

Goddamn RINO.

255

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:17:35pm

re: #249 Rightwingconspirator

Goldwater’s your ideal conservative???

256

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:18:29pm

re: #250 abolitionist

Please see here: Obama, Acorn, And Election Fraud

Our President has a significant history with ACORN. He has been a trainer and attorney for ACORN. OBAMA CAUGHT SAYING ACORN AND FRIENDS WILL SHAPE HIS PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA

Or keep laughing. Your choice.

He a politician. When he speaks to the Rutabaga Forum, Rutabaga
husbandry will shape his agenda.

257

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:19:28pm

He’s rutabaga

PIMF

258

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:19:50pm

re: #227 iceweasel

No one’s whitewashed the registration fraud. Not even ACORN, who themselves were responsible for at least one investigation resulting in the arrests of 11 employees in FL— ACORN spotted the irregularities and turned their own workers in.
The partisan idiocy (and conspiracy theory) is all coming from the people who are convinced they are as someone said above some super James Bond type of vilian. SPECTRE or something.
Example: lots of places like Fox blared about the FL arrests…but didn’t mention that the investigation was entirely due to ACORN tipping off the FBI.
ACORN Praised by Prosecutors for Fighting Voter Registration Fraud
Sure, they have problems, but they’re not SPECTRE.

Not even SMERSH?

259

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:20:18pm

re: #215 Guanxi88

ACORN exists to implement the old Cloward-Priven strategy of swamping the welfare state with more demands for services than it can provide.

That seems like a little bit of a leap. An organization wants to help poor people sign up for existing programs for the poor and to lobby for more such programs … therefore they’re trying to bring down the government?

Do you have any evidence for such a claim?

It all sounds too much like Glenn Beck “logic” to me.

Youtube Video

260

Jack Burton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:20:24pm

re: #258 JasonA

Not even SMERSH?

Possibly KAOS too.

261

Summer Seale Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:20:36pm

OT:
The Unsung Heroes Fighting Terrorists!

Have you bearhugged a bear today to show your appreciation? =)

(The story on that link totally made my day!) =)

262

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:20:41pm

Acorn =/= SPECTRE.
Acorn = THRUSH or KAOS.
/;)

263

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:22:37pm

re: #250 abolitionist

Please see here: Obama, Acorn, And Election Fraud

Our President has a significant history with ACORN. He has been a trainer and attorney for ACORN. OBAMA CAUGHT SAYING ACORN AND FRIENDS WILL SHAPE HIS PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA

Or keep laughing. Your choice.

The second video you link to — that youtube channel looks insane. All the guy’s videos contain the words EXPLOSIVE or SHOCKING or the like, they’re all directed at propagating smears against the left, and his chosen wallpaper is that don’t tread on me symbol associated with paulians, secessionists, and other nuts. It also features a video he’s made with this title:
Obama wants you to pledge loyalty to him and he is sending his Zombies to your front door

So yeah, I’m laughing at it.
(the first one doesnt look much better)

264

Baboon Cheeks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:22:50pm

re: #241 Spare O’Lake

Yes they do have problems, and noone said they were an organization seeking world domination - they are simply a publicly funded organizational tool of the Democratic party in sheep’s clothing.

But their biggest problem is that ACORN is being slowly and gently eased under the bus…

I wouldn’t trust iceweasel on the subject of Acorn. As you can see from the picture her relationship with these people is somewhat interesting:

Image: Cloneoflair2.jpg

;-)

265

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:23:07pm

re: #261 Summer

Have you bearhugged a bear today to show your appreciation? =)

Does being bearhugged by a deathclaw count?
/

266

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:23:21pm

re: #250 abolitionist

So? John McCain didn’t seem to have much of a problem with ACORN before it became politically expedient for him to throw them under the bus.

267

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:23:23pm

re: #259 philosophus invidius

That seems like a little bit of a leap. An organization wants to help poor people sign up for existing programs for the poor and to lobby for more such programs … therefore they’re trying to bring down the government?
Do you have any evidence for such a claim?
It all sounds too much like Glenn Beck “logic” to me.

Come on, everyone knows how ebil it is to help poor people access the programs that exist to help them…
Maybe there is something in the art at Rockefeller Center that will speak to Glenn about ACORN.
/

268

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:23:57pm

269

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:24:21pm

re: #268 thefish

Flounce!

270

bratwurst Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:24:52pm

re: #268 thefish

MORE FLOUNCE TO THE OUNCE!

271

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:25:49pm

re: #268 thefish

One fish two fish red fish hates blue fish.

Bah.

272

recusancy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:25:56pm

re: #268 thefish

“the nuts on the Left”

was that a pun??? :)

Have a wonderful life!

273

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:26:07pm

re: #268 thefish

What do you mean?

274

Baboon Cheeks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:26:17pm

re: #268 thefish

Bye!

Youtube Video

275

Jack Burton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:26:45pm

re: #268 thefish

You’re about to read a book Stinky’s foot wrote. It’s called On the Road to in Your Ass.

276

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:26:59pm

re: #268 thefish

Today, LGF, tomorrow the world. Bwa ha ha!

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

277

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:27:05pm

re: #264 Jimmah

I wouldn’t trust iceweasel on the subject of Acorn. As you can see from the picture her relationship with these people is somewhat interesting:

[Link: i238.photobucket.com…]

;-)

oooh, my cover is blown! *shakes tiny liberal fist*

*maybe even two*

278

[deleted] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:27:57pm

279

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:28:36pm

re: #278 thefish

You married well.

280

Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:28:44pm

re: #251 iceweasel

In that case I guess there’s nothing for the people who fear them to worry about. /
Here’s some Ronettes for you; meant to post it this morning!:
[Video]

Right, ACORN is circling the drain as we speak, with funding reduced, contracts in question, and not a peep from the one who benefitted so much from their tireless and noble efforts./
Thanks for the Ronettes - here’s a Martha right back at ya.
Youtube Video

281

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:28:48pm

re: #278 thefish

Why do you have to bring Jesus into it?

282

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:28:49pm

re: #278 thefish

You crap on the carpet and expected a warm welcome?..

283

Jack Burton Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:28:56pm

re: #253 ArchangelMichael

It occurred to me that not everyone saw the super extended geek version of Return of the King with 16 million hours of extra footage, rendering that comment undecipherable so…

Youtube Video

284

SixDegrees Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:29:53pm

re: #278 thefish

Jesus, I rest my case. Bye indeed. This place is like listening to my in-laws.

Perhaps if you contributed something…

Or not.

285

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:30:03pm

re: #278 thefish

Jesus, I rest my case. Bye indeed. This place is like listening to my in-laws.

ish…are we that bad?

286

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:31:23pm

re: #268 thefish

Oh boo waa! You post less than 1 post a month for 5 years and cry when you are challenged in politics..Go curl up in the corner and suck your thumb..
Engage and defend you cry baby..Folks on the left don’t intimidate me…If you can’t stand the heat get out of the ~~kitchen~~ blog…
I always said if you have an issue get a tissue..C-YA

287

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:31:29pm

re: #278 thefish

Jesus, I rest my case. Bye indeed. This place is like listening to my in-laws.

I like my inlaws.

288

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:31:42pm

re: #277 iceweasel

Two fists (albeit tiny ones) - wow! Who says we liberals are wimps? ; )

289

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:32:08pm

re: #268 thefish

Later, skater. Say hi to Darth Vader!

290

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:32:34pm

re: #283 ArchangelMichael

What about a catapult? Part one.

What about a catapult? Part two.

Contains language.
:)

291

Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:33:00pm

re: #287 philosophus invidius

I like my inlaws.

Must be rich.

292

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:34:02pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

Oh boo waa! You post less than 1 post a month for 5 years and cry when you are challenged in politics..Go curl up in the corner and suck your thumb..
Engage and defend you cry baby..Folks on the left don’t intimidate me…If you can’t stand the heat get out of the ~~kitchen~~ blog…
I always said if you have an issue get a tissue..C-YA

No one even challenged him though, did they? He was just offended by reading and couldn’t bring himself to engage, right?

/yeah, the mark of a confident thinker who is intellectual secure in their position right there.

293

Carlos Dangler Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:34:07pm

re: #268 thefish

Buh-bye now…don’t the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

294

Baboon Cheeks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:34:47pm

re: #277 iceweasel

oooh, my cover is blown! *shakes tiny liberal fist*

*maybe even two*

You can always get a new Lair, ice-ski. The old one has just about served it’s purpose anyway, I think :)

villainsource.com

295

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:36:06pm

re: #291 Spare O’Lake

Must be rich.

Hey, I like one of my inlaws a lot! He’s an old computer nerd who was working with punch card mainframes back when they were new technology and has a million awesome stories. The only problem with him is he drinks those damn malternative Mike’s Hard Lemonade things instead of good beer.

296

Summer Seale Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:36:12pm

re: #278 thefish

Jesus, I rest my case. Bye indeed. This place is like listening to my in-laws.

Hello, ACORN? This is Agent Summer.

Take care of Mr. thefish. See to it that…some harm comes to him.

*James Bond music*

*Blandly resumes feeding her piranhas*

297

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:37:11pm

re: #294 Jimmah

You can always get a new Lair, ice-ski. The old one has just about served it’s purpose anyway, I think :)

[Link: www.villainsource.com…]

hahahahaha

“A Secret Lair isn’t so secret with a couple of hundred ex-construction workers wandering the globe, blabbing to bar patrons about the secret shark trap you built into your underwater grotto. That’s why it’s vital to mind Helpful Tip #12:
ALWAYS KILL OFF YOUR CONSTRUCTION CREW ONCE YOUR LAIR IS COMPLETE!”

Truer words were never spoken…

298

Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:38:20pm

Now that I’ve seen my first flounce, I will retire for the night and
contemplate its implications. Perhaps there is a message for us all.

299

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:38:41pm

re: #294 Jimmah

re: #297 webevintage

The evil Overlord list. :)

300

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:40:03pm

re: #294 Jimmah

You can always get a new Lair, ice-ski. The old one has just about served it’s purpose anyway, I think :)

[Link: www.villainsource.com…]

Hmmm, yes. A new lair! this one sounds nice:

Secluded mountaintop villa

This 3,200 square meter mountaintop villa comes complete with master bedroom, 3 guest rooms, full kitchen, fireplace, sauna, game room, indoor theater, hidden central computer room, carport, tiger trap, swimming pool, armory, walk-in closets, discreet morgue/crematorium, and convenient, obvious self-destruct mechanism. Optional missile defense expansion kit. Produced by Greenacre Homes (Villain Division

I think Walter may live have the market on mountaintop lairs cornered. And this might be too much lair for me. Damned lair bubble! :(

301

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:41:05pm

re: #183 Merryweather

Nobody got tired of the BUSH STOLES TEH ELECKSHUN!11 lefty meme faster than me. I got into arguments with my friends about it for years, because they just never stopped with it. My opinion about the 2000 election is it was so close it might as well have been decided by a coin toss on the 50-yard line. It boiled down to byzantine procedural weirdness and damaged ballots and small-ball political gamesmanship. And when Bush won, clearly I wasn’t happy, but it would have been considered “stolen” no matter who won.

302

SixDegrees Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:42:24pm

re: #267 webevintage

Come on, everyone knows how ebil it is to help poor people access the programs that exist to help them…
/

Maybe.

I’ve posted about my own experience with ACORN before. Around here, they’re mostly badgerers for hire, and contract with various groups pushing ballot initiatives or petitions of various kinds to collect signatures. Apart from the usual problems with such organizations - mostly pavement pounders who pad their signature lists in various ways - ACORN is well known for taking contracts from opposing sides of the same issue, happily collecting signatures both in favor of and in opposition to a given issue. As might be imagined, this sort of double-dipping hasn’t gone down too well with the people on the other side of such contracts, who are apparently pitched ACORN’s full and complete backing and support. And it raises interesting questions about what happens to those signature sheets when, at the end of the day, they all arrive back at the same office.

Illegal? Probably not. Unethical? Absolutely.

Helping out poor people, etc? Depends on what initiative we’re talking about - and which side of it prevails. ACORN’s involvement on both sides, however, doesn’t hardly qualify as “help”.

303

karmic_inquisitor Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:42:45pm

BTW - just picked up the mail.

In it is a blue envelope from the Republican National Committee with a faux red stamp saying “Past Due.”

Keep wasting your money morons - ain’t gonna get another dime out of me until to zealots are shown the door.

304

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:42:46pm

re: #298 Decatur Deb

Now that I’ve seen my first flounce, I will retire for the night and
contemplate its implications. Perhaps there is a message for us all.

Meditate on the zen koan of the flounce. Guide your third eye to a place of peace and tranquility so that you may reflect. If a flounce was deleted before a single Lizard saw it, was there ever a flounce at all?

305

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:43:37pm

re: #298 Decatur Deb

Now that I’ve seen my first flounce, I will retire for the night and
contemplate its implications. Perhaps there is a message for us all.

There is a lesson here.. when your views in politics are challenged…Man up
or run out the door screaming..
/I’m a moderate American.. I enjoy watching a far left meltdown as well as a wingnut view America is heading to hell…You can’t buy more fun for me…In case no one noticed..In the end Moderates have a lot of power with our votes..If Obama doesn’t move towards the Center…He is Toast…Go to Vegas and bet on it…

306

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:44:49pm

re: #283 ArchangelMichael

It occurred to me that not everyone saw the super extended geek version of Return of the King with 16 million hours of extra footage, rendering that comment undecipherable so…

[Video]

It’s true that I haven’t seen it, but I’m enough of a geek that I’d read the book an embarassingly high number of times before I was 12. Shhh.

Any excuse to post this quote again!

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

h/t kung fu monkey

307

bratwurst Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:45:01pm

I know the topic has been discussed here ad nauseum, but I still can’t get over the flouncing phenomenon here. Even in the realm of bizarre internet behavior, the OCD involved in this astounds me.

308

martinsmithy Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:46:14pm

ACORN - the last refuge of Republican scoundrels.

I’m sure all those sneaky ACORN saboteurs slipped in quite easily among the good burghers of Potsdam, Watertown, and Plattsburgh.

309

Ugly John Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:48:32pm

re: #306 iceweasel

OK, that I have to add to my list of great quotes.

310

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:51:20pm

re: #307 bratwurst

I know the topic has been discussed here ad nauseum, but I still can’t get over the flouncing phenomenon here. Even in the realm of bizarre internet behavior, the OCD involved in this astounds me.

That many go on to stalk and obsessively nurse their sense of grievance with the blob and its owner supports your observation.

311

freetoken Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:51:55pm

re: #263 iceweasel

So yeah, I’m laughing at it.
(the first one doesnt look much better)

Laughing with you… some of these videos posted say a whole lot more about the people who think those videos are really, really important insight into something nefarious, rather than about President Obama.

312

abolitionist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:52:40pm

re: #305 HoosierHoops

I fully expect to see BHO make much show of steps to the political center. But for each such step, there will be 2 or more in a contrary direction. (I’m paraphrasing someone.)

313

3kids3dogs Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:55:02pm

re: #202 iceweasel

heh. Me too, sometimes. I’m liking you more and more. :)
And as for the first part of your comment, yeah, wellsaid! but it also applies to the left who have their (our) own boogiemen and tendency to attribute eeevil instead of just incompetence.

Some on the right seem to think that ACORN sprung up just to get Obama elected. They conveniently forget that they were funded when the Republicans controlled the White House and Congress. Of course some on the left think Haliburton was created while GWB was in office for the express purpose of profiting off of the Iraq war. They conveniently forget that Haliburton was in existence long before that and was given contracts by the Clinton administration.

314

HoosierHoops Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:56:02pm

re: #312 abolitionist

I fully expect to see BHO make much show of steps to the political center. But for each such step, there will be 2 or more in a contrary direction. (I’m paraphrasing someone.)

Hope and Change won’t work in 2012.. Results and leadership will matter…
I’ll say one thing about Moderates and Indy’s.. After 4 years they won’t buy the Bullshit…

315

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:56:39pm

re: #309 Ugly John

OK, that I have to add to my list of great quotes.

Terrific, isn’t it? I didn’t even know the blogger but that quote bounced around the prog-sphere quite a bit this year. Someone here then showed me two posts by that blogger that i think everyone here would like, regardless of political ideology (and prescient, too)

I miss republicans (from 2004) — excerpt:

No, seriously. Remember Republicans? Sober men in suits, pipes, who’d nod thoughtfully over their latest tract on market-driven fiscal conservatism while grinding out the numbers on rocket science. Remember those serious-looking 1950’s-1960’s science guys in the movies — Republican to a one.

They were the grown-ups. They were the realists. Sure they were a bummer, maaan, but on the way to La Revolution you need somebody to remember where you parked the car. I was never one (nor a Democrat, really, more an agnostic libertarian big on the social contract, but we don’t have a party …), but I genuinely liked them.

How did they become the party of fairy dust and make believe? How did they become the anti-science guys? The anti-fact guys? The anti-logic guys?

I still miss republicans (2007)

Can’t remember who showed me these links— jvic? maybe bagua? I think it was jvic. Thanks to whoever it was, anyway!

316

Baboon Cheeks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 3:58:52pm

re: #300 iceweasel

I think Walter may live have the market on mountaintop lairs cornered. And this might be too much lair for me. Damned lair bubble! :(

I’m kinda drawn to the underground island lair with optional volcano.

Your private island comes equipped with a secret underground submarine bay, Master Bedroom, a 40-room luxury villa, atomic reactor, missile/laser launch bay, command room (T3 lines included), shark trap, billiards room, cybernetics lab, full bar, housing and facilities for up to 250 henchpersons, private suites for up to 12 beautiful bikini women, and convenient, obvious self-destruct mechanism.

And there’s a free Nikon Digital Camera if you buy the volcano feature :)

317

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:02:55pm

re: #315 iceweasel

Extremely OT, but as we were both discussing our mutual disdain for Harry Reid earlier, here’s more fuel for that fire:

Reid for the first time publicly raised the possibility that lawmakers would not be able to meet their — and Obama’s — self-imposed deadline of completing work on health care by year’s end.
“We’re not going to be bound by any timelines. We need to do the best job we can for the American people,” Reid said after the weekly closed-door meeting of rank-and-file Democrats.

A few hours later, Reid’s office revised his remarks. “Our goals remain unchanged. We want to get health insurance reform done this year, and we have unprecedented momentum to achieve that. There is no reason why we can’t have a transparent and thorough debate in the Senate and still send a bill to the president by Christmas,” said spokesman Jim Manley.

Here’s a purge I’d support: a purge of all Harry Reids from all leadership posts.

318

Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:06:14pm

As opposed to stealing a presidential election under the aegis of a Florida Republican elections commissioner in 2000.

History will judge.

319

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:08:02pm

re: #318 Cato the Elder

What are you on about? Must we always dredge up the “well the other side did it” canard?

320

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:08:25pm

re: #314 HoosierHoops

Hope and Change won’t work in 2012.. Results and leadership will matter…
I’ll say one thing about Moderates and Indy’s.. After 4 years they won’t buy the Bullshit…

Unless, of course, the presidential nominee is someone Sarah picks…or Sarah herself.

321

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:09:14pm

re: #311 freetoken

Laughing with you… some of these videos posted say a whole lot more about the people who think those videos are really, really important insight into something nefarious, rather than about President Obama.

Yup. Same can be said for a whole lot of conspiracy theories and ideas, really. Even if they don’t reveal any truth about objective reality (the way the world is), they reveal truths about subjective reality (the way the world is perceived)—-by which i mean the inner lives of the believers.

Time to repost Richard Hofstader, the Paranoid Style in American Politics (1964)

The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms—he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at a turning point. Like religious millenialists he expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the last days and he is sometimes disposed to set a date fort the apocalypse. (“Time is running out,” said Welch in 1951. “Evidence is piling up on many sides and from many sources that October 1952 is the fatal month when Stalin will attack.”)
As a member of the avant-garde who is capable of perceiving the conspiracy before it is fully obvious to an as yet unaroused public, the paranoid is a militant leader. He does not see social conflict as something to be mediated and compromised, in the manner of the working politician. Since what is at stake is always a conflict between absolute good and absolute evil, what is necessary is not compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Since the enemy is thought of as being totally evil and totally unappeasable, he must be totally eliminated—if not from the world, at least from the theatre of operations to which the paranoid directs his attention. This demand for total triumph leads to the formulation of hopelessly unrealistic goals, and since these goals are not even remotely attainable, failure constantly heightens the paranoid’s sense of frustration. Even partial success leaves him with the same feeling of powerlessness with which he began, and this in turn only strengthens his awareness of the vast and terrifying quality of the enemy he opposes.

snip
It is hard to resist the conclusion that this enemy is on many counts the projection of the self; both the ideal and the unacceptable aspects of the self are attributed to him.

322

Carlos Dangler Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:09:32pm

re: #307 bratwurst

I know the topic has been discussed here ad nauseum, but I still can’t get over the flouncing phenomenon here. Even in the realm of bizarre internet behavior, the OCD involved in this astounds me.

Some Lizards, when they find out that Charles isn’t getting on the right-wing krayzee train like so many blogs have since the election, are compelled to tell ~~Daddy~~ Charles they hate his guts as they proceed to take a dump on the living room floor.

323

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:09:39pm

re: #315 iceweasel

And I love Kung Fu Monkey - I came to that blog and the I Miss Republicans post via Balloon Juice.

324

Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:11:37pm

re: #319 Bagua

What are you on about? Must we always dredge up the “well the other side did it” canard?

History will judge. Who’s stronger? A bunch of still-to-be-proved ACORN thugs, or the Rethuglicans who took over the Bush-Gore recount?

It’s not a canard if it’s true.

Memory matters.

325

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:12:38pm

re: #318 Cato the Elder

Sorry, but Bush didn’t steal that election any more than Kennedy did the 1960 one.

326

Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:13:33pm

re: #325 Merryweather

Sorry, but Bush didn’t steal that election any more than Kennedy did the 1960 one.

I rest my case.

327

webevintage Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:13:44pm

re: #307 bratwurst

I know the topic has been discussed here ad nauseum, but I still can’t get over the flouncing phenomenon here. Even in the realm of bizarre internet behavior, the OCD involved in this astounds me.

Try fandom.

Oh, the flouncing that goes on…and the fake suicides…and the calling everyone “bitches and lesbians” on the way out the door.
Really y’all have not seen a real internet flounce until you have seen one in say, The Harry Potter fandom.
Drah-ma, the DRAMA!!!1111!!!

328

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:13:46pm

re: #324 Cato the Elder

History will judge. Who’s stronger? A bunch of still-to-be-proved ACORN thugs, or the Rethuglicans who took over the Bush-Gore recount?

It’s not a canard if it’s true.

Memory matters.

OK, then you are fine with bringing up “well the democrats did such and such” every time a nut on the right is pointed out?

It seems to me that sort of rationalisation has been rejected here.

329

fizzlogic Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:15:04pm

re: #230 RogueOne

In a different law enforcement episode we can only assume this “thug” looked at the officer wrong:

Youtube Video

330

Cato the Elder Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:15:28pm

re: #328 Bagua

Reject away. Comparisons are valid.

331

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:19:03pm

re: #317 Merryweather

Extremely OT, but as we were both discussing our mutual disdain for Harry Reid earlier, here’s more fuel for that fire:

Here’s a purge I’d support: a purge of all Harry Reids from all leadership posts.

Damn straight. Right behind you sister. I knew that tiny backbone moment of his would soon be only a memory. Feh.

332

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:19:35pm

re: #327 webevintage

Yeah, well, Harry Potter fandom is the kind that throws hissy fits because it thinks the creator has misunderstood the characters they created. Not the most emotionally stable bunch, I’d say.

333

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:25:42pm

re: #330 Cato the Elder

Reject away. Comparisons are valid.

Valid to a point, “well, billy did it too” is often a sign or rationalisation which has weak validity. In this case we have the one size fits all “Bush did it too’ justification.

334

Dadaist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:26:07pm

Did somebody make a rule when I wasn’t looking that at least one candidate in every close race has to claim that the other side are “stealing” the election? Because it seems to be going that way. Now we have this nimrod casually tossing about allegations of major criminality before an election is even over, presumably because he thinks it will help mobilise the base.

If this sort of thing becomes the norm its enormously destructive to both political discourse and the democratic process.

335

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:26:18pm

re: #323 Merryweather

And I love Kung Fu Monkey - I came to that blog and the I Miss Republicans post via Balloon Juice.

I LOVE Balloon Juice!

336

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:27:25pm

I find it amazing that people here should be defending ACORN.

ACORN stinks to high heaven, a parasitic disgrace to American democracy. Established specifiacally to foment social discord under the guise of “helping the poor”, financially fraudulent at its core, endless voter-registration fraud, leeching on the public weal.

And that is why it was thrown under the bus by the whole Dem establishment as soon as the spotlight of publicity revealed its true nature.

If the specious arguments people advance to defend it have any merit, ACORN would not have been thrown under the bus. The Democratic Party in the centre know ACORN is toxic - from Obama down.

The Republican Party was too damn dumb to finger it long since.

337

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:30:22pm

re: #336 JohninLondon

I find it amazing that people here should be defending ACORN.
[…]

Who are you talking about?

338

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:31:29pm

re: #337 Bagua

Read the thread. Those whom the cap fits …

339

prairiefire Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:31:46pm

re: #336 JohninLondon

Acorn helped my single mother friend buy her first home.

340

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:31:50pm

re: #323 Merryweather

And I love Kung Fu Monkey - I came to that blog and the I Miss Republicans post via Balloon Juice.

Did you see Cole’s post on the Nobel?Jimmah and I made the video there. :)

Jimmah-Ice Productions has a Greater Wingnuttia Butthurt Warning Level Alert System, if you’d like to check our youtube channel out. 5 levels, each with a different wingnut: Beck, O’Reilly, Coulter, Malkin, Bachmann.

341

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:33:29pm

re: #338 JohninLondon

Read the thread. Those whom the cap fits …

I don’t see people ‘defending’ ACORN, but rather objecting to the obviously untrue paranoid conspiracies about their power, influence, and competence.

342

Varek Raith Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:33:38pm

re: #338 JohninLondon

Read the thread. Those whom the cap fits …

How about actual examples and not a wild goose chase?

343

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:35:24pm

re: #335 iceweasel

Me too - the snark’s hilarious, the pet pics (especially Lily) are adorable and it’s a refreshing voice of reason when I feel like banging my head against a wall from all the hysterical “Obama’s just like/worse than Bush!” crap at some liberal blogs. Watching John Cole go from staunch Republican to born-again Democrat was a very fascinating experience as well - it’s not often you get to see someone evolve politically.

344

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:36:57pm

re: #343 Merryweather

Me too - the snark’s hilarious, the pet pics (especially Lily) are adorable and it’s a refreshing voice of reason when I feel like banging my head against a wall from all the hysterical “Obama’s just like/worse than Bush!” crap at some liberal blogs. Watching John Cole go from staunch Republican to born-again Democrat was a very fascinating experience as well - it’s not often you get to see someone evolve politically.

Taken a look at Sullivan lately?

345

Ojoe Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:37:56pm

re: #65 soxfan4life

How so, try to swing one of the major parties in their direction?

Not possible; IMHO a new party is needed, the rising number of independents is proof enough of that.

If there is no center party, then most people are presented with what to them are fringe candidates & many moses are held in the voting booth, and what is worse, many do not vote.

346

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:40:39pm

re: #338 JohninLondon

Read the thread. Those whom the cap fits …

Bull, you posted a ridiculous rant demonising Acorn, and now you are on some sort of a witch hunt. I’ll gladly take the bait and defend Acorn against your fatuous generalisations.

347

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:42:06pm

re: #340 iceweasel

That was you? Awesome - I loved that video.

That was a great day to be on the internet -I’m in the category that doesn’t think Obama deserved the Nobel, but was delighted he won it just to see all the wingnut heads exploding. :D

348

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:46:49pm

re: #343 Merryweather

Me too - the snark’s hilarious, the pet pics (especially Lily) are adorable and it’s a refreshing voice of reason when I feel like banging my head against a wall from all the hysterical “Obama’s just like/worse than Bush!” crap at some liberal blogs. Watching John Cole go from staunch Republican to born-again Democrat was a very fascinating experience as well - it’s not often you get to see someone evolve politically.

i wouldn’t characterise Cole as a born again Democrat, if only because he’s too damn cantankerous and independent minded and will criticise the Dems just as harshly— he really only registered as a Dem because he felt registering as an independent wasn’t sending a strong enough message of repudiation to the GOP IIRC. I wasn’t reading Cole when he was still staunchly pro-Iraq and Bush. i wish I had been. I caught part of the transition but not all. I’d say he’s my favourite blogger over all after Charles, but i can’t really be bothered to be one of the regular commentariat there or anywhere but here. LGF is the best place for political discussion on the net, IMO. I read tons of blogs (esp liberal ones) but this is the only place with a true mix of opinion.

Both JC and Charles are quite similar in the ways that matter most to me it seems: total unwillingness to tolerate bullshit and toe a party line no matter how much grief they’ll get for failing to do so. They’re intellectually honest and uncompromising. BJ is a nice corrective as you say to the liberal freakouts on other blogs…though I spend a lot more time in the snarkosphere than on the others.

349

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:47:22pm

re: #344 JasonA

Yeah - I wish there were more like him on the subject of torture. However he’s kinda getting on my nerves lately with his increasingly shrill haranguing of Obama for not doing enough for gays, right NOW. He was even bitching about him not saying the actual word ‘gay’ when signing the Hate Crimes Bill that covered all minorities for goodness sake. He doesn’t seem to realise that Obama can”t do squat about DOMA or DADT, and it’s Congress he needs to hold to the fire.

350

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:50:12pm

re: #347 Merryweather

That was you? Awesome - I loved that video.

That was a great day to be on the internet -I’m in the category that doesn’t think Obama deserved the Nobel, but was delighted he won it just to see all the wingnut heads exploding. :D

Yep! Me and Jimmah, to be precise. So glad you liked it! That was a great day. :)

Here’s the one we made about Bill O’reilly:

Youtube Video

Jimmah and I are in the process of completing several other projects as well, all about wingnuts. (shameless youtube self-promotion here)

351

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:54:26pm

re: #348 iceweasel

Yeah I don’t have the patience to comment at BJ (or most other blogs)and keep refreshing the page. As well as the nice mix of political views, what I like about LGF is the automated comment feed. I wish more blogs had it.

352

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 4:58:33pm

re: #350 iceweasel

That should keep you and Jimmah busy, as wingnuts are an endless source of humor/crazy/stupid :)

353

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:01:10pm

re: #349 Merryweather

Yeah - I wish there were more like him on the subject of torture. However he’s kinda getting on my nerves lately with his increasingly shrill haranguing of Obama for not doing enough for gays, right NOW. He was even bitching about him not saying the actual word ‘gay’ when signing the Hate Crimes Bill that covered all minorities for goodness sake. He doesn’t seem to realise that Obama can”t do squat about DOMA or DADT, and it’s Congress he needs to hold to the fire.

I know what you mean. I kind of gloss over those posts. But then, I’m also not gay, so it’s hard to say what his reaction should be. Know what I mean?

354

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:01:38pm

re: #351 Merryweather

Yeah I don’t have the patience to comment at BJ (or most other blogs)and keep refreshing the page. As well as the nice mix of political views, what I like about LGF is the automated comment feed. I wish more blogs had it.

Kos does.

*ducks*

355

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:01:44pm

re: #346 Bagua

Bull, you posted a ridiculous rant demonising Acorn, and now you are on some sort of a witch hunt. I’ll gladly take the bait and defend Acorn against your fatuous generalisations.

Kinda crushing on you now, Bagua, in a totally intellectual, platonic LGF way. just sayin’.

356

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:01:50pm

re: #346 Bagua

Point 1 from my earlier post - ACORN was established specifically to foment social discord. Check out how and why it was founded.

Point 2. Financially fraudulent at its core. Big chunk of money taken by one of the brothers, covered up, on-going attempts to smother any whistleblowers eg on how it moves money around multiple entities like a shell game. The Salvation Army is a unitary organisation. ACORN is a hydra of financial entities, deliberately structured that way, shuffling funds around so fast you can’t see them move. Including offshore. Why the hell should it need offshore stuff ?

Point 3 - endless voter-registration fraud. Please don’t make out ACORN is not a serial offender. Any other organisation that had such a record would have tightened up its procedures long since, instituted effective auditing.

Point 4 - the Dem establishment threw it under the bus in an instant. No enquiry, no committe - ZAP. Now why on earth would they do that ? Pelosi and Reid can carry on regardless with a bill that huge numbers of Americans vehemently oppose - but as soon as ACORN comes under the spotlight they ditch it instantly. Looks like guilt to me. ACORN does not seek to increase the popular vote pari passu.. It operates to increase exclusively the Dem vote - period. Again - check out the whistleblowers, there’s a lot of stuff out there from ex-employees in spite of ACORN’s attempts to suppress it.

Point 5 - the Republican Party was too damn dumb to properly finger it. It took a couple of kids to show the nature of ACORN - in multiple cities. In each case, ACORN was prostituting its alleged cause - and looking for contributions.

Like I said - a disgrace to American democracy, ACORN stinks to high heaven.

357

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:04:12pm

re: #356 JohninLondon

Point 1 from my earlier post - ACORN was established specifically to foment social discord. Check out how and why it was founded.

Point 2. Financially fraudulent at its core. Big chunk of money taken by one of the brothers, covered up, on-going attempts to smother any whistleblowers eg on how it moves money around multiple entities like a shell game.

i’ll let Bagua demolish you (because i want to watch) but uh, what ‘brothers’ are you referring to there? Are there some siblings working there who were engaged in fraud?

358

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:07:59pm

re: #354 JasonA

Shame they ruin it with the threaded format. I can’t bear that - it clutters the diary pages up and makes it so hard to find where a subthread begins and ends.

359

Randall Gross Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:10:27pm

re: #356 JohninLondon

Your point 5 is ridiculous. I’m on all the standard mail lists for the R’s, and a few of the non standard ones. If I printed all of the “Acorn this” “Acorn that” spam I’ve gotten since 2000 I could literally wallpaper every room in my house and my neighbor’s with it.
The fact is that both parties have ugly political operatives and agencies, the name ODOM comes to mind.

360

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:12:04pm

re: #357 iceweasel

I think he believes ACORN is the arm of a Family.

361

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:14:47pm

re: #357 iceweasel

i’ll let Bagua demolish you (because i want to watch) but uh, what ‘brothers’ are you referring to there? Are there some siblings working there who were engaged in fraud?

Fraud was the wrong word. I should have said embezzlement. Perpetrated by the founder’s brother - and covered up.

This isn’t Fox News stuff - try reading the NYT :

nytimes.com

362

Four More Tears Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:14:49pm

re: #360 Merryweather

I’m left wondering what evil he would find to fill that void in his heart if ACORN were to vanish tomorrow.

363

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:16:41pm

re: #359 Thanos

Did you get the stuff sent you about the founder’s brother’s embezzlement ? Just pasted it on the wall ?

364

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:21:35pm

re: #356 JohninLondon

Point 1 from my earlier post - ACORN was established specifically to foment social discord. Check out how and why it was founded.

I don’t need to go on a witch hunt and I don’t go on wild goose chases, that’s your department. Prove your allegations.

Point 2. Financially fraudulent at its core. Big chunk of money taken by one of the brothers, covered up, on-going attempts to smother any whistleblowers eg on how it moves money around multiple entities like a shell game. The Salvation Army is a unitary organisation. ACORN is a hydra of financial entities, deliberately structured that way, shuffling funds around so fast you can’t see them move. Including offshore. Why the hell should it need offshore stuff ?

If they are guilty of fraud then the relevant prosecutors will hold them responsible. The rest is speculation and innuendo.

Point 3 - endless voter-registration fraud. Please don’t make out ACORN is not a serial offender. Any other organisation that had such a record would have tightened up its procedures long since, instituted effective auditing.

This has been a problem with some of their chapters and IIRC there have been several prosecutions as a result. Part of the problem is it is their employees who commit this fraud for money on an individual basis. Check out how many employees of Walmart are prosecuted for larceny and fraud, does that make Walmart a criminal enterprise?

Point 4 – […] Looks like guilt to me […]

Be succinct, that whole paragraph expands on the five words I excerpted.

OK, so it all looks guilty to you therefore it must be, “let’s throw them all in jail, who needs actual charges and a trial when we are going on our hunches, after all, they’re Blacks right, they must be guilty.” That seems to sum up your view.

Point 5 - the Republican Party was too damn dumb to properly finger it. It took a couple of kids to show the nature of ACORN - in multiple cities. In each case, ACORN was prostituting its alleged cause - and looking for contributions.

“Too damn dumb”, “prostituting”, I see your key words but they mean little. Obviously the Republicans lost the last election, no need to be so bitter.

Like I said - a disgrace to American democracy, ACORN stinks to high heaven.

Right, like you said. You proved nothing and alleged much.
I’m no fan of Acorn myself, but I see them for what they are. You on the other hand have a vivid imagination and a great deal of bias and no doubt bigotry.

365

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:22:50pm

re: #362 JasonA

He could always go retro and start hating the Clintons again.

366

Randall Gross Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:23:52pm

re: #363 JohninLondon

I probably did, but before I did I read about it in the papers. I don’t read the ginned up outrage of the day emails for the most part. There are ugly operations on both sides, Acorn’s bad, but not as bad as portrayed.

367

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:23:58pm

re: #361 JohninLondon

Fraud was the wrong word. I should have said embezzlement. Perpetrated by the founder’s brother - and covered up.

This isn’t Fox News stuff - try reading the NYT :

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

Ah ok. cheers.
BTW, I do read the Times.

368

Baboon Cheeks Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:27:20pm

re: #352 Merryweather

That should keep you and Jimmah busy, as wingnuts are an endless source of humor/crazy/stupid :)

Absolutely - there really is an excess of material. We hope one day to acquire an Andy Warhol style factory so we can keep up with the opportunities that wingnuttia provides ;-)

369

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:27:20pm

re: #364 Bagua

So if ACORN is pure as the driven snow - how come the Dems in Congress - without exception - dropped them like a hot chestnut ? Proof of the pudding, I’d say.

Any comments on the NYT article about embezzlement ?

370

3kids3dogs Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:28:40pm

re: #369 JohninLondon

So if ACORN is pure as the driven snow

Exactly where did anyone make that claim?

371

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:30:41pm

re: #370 3kids3dogs

Exactly where did anyone make that claim?

Oh, you know how this game is played…we either agree they are hideous and sinister henchmen, part of a vast left-wing conspiracy, or we must be saying that they’re wonderful and perfect and shining and good.
Wingnuttia: land of two colours, black and white.

372

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:31:04pm

So let me get this straight. According to the far-righties:

The small number of soldiers who abused prisoners at Abu Ghraib were “a few bad apples”.
A small number of corrupt employee at ACORN means the entire organization is rotten to the core.

//That’s what I love about the far-right - their views are so consistent.

373

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:32:09pm

re: #259 philosophus invidius

That seems like a little bit of a leap. An organization wants to help poor people sign up for existing programs for the poor and to lobby for more such programs … therefore they’re trying to bring down the government?

Do you have any evidence for such a claim?

It all sounds too much like Glenn Beck “logic” to me.

[Video]

Ah, reductio ad Beckam. Excellent. you’ve proved your point, I suppose.

That ACORN’s role in attempting to combine under one umbrella organization a coalition of groups whose primary point of commonality is an appetite for tax dollars that is matched in its intensity only by the fervor and insistence with which these demands are made is not de facto evidence of an attempted implementation of Cloward-Priven,the very implementation of which would be largely indistinguishable from the program as advocated by these organizations.

But, hey, if Beck is to be the magic word that ends discussion, so be it.

374

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:33:16pm

re: #370 3kids3dogs

For example - Bagua just did a big scree defending them, saying I had nil evidence. And others have been saying its is all paranoia, bigotry, whatever.

No-one has commented on why ACORN should have such a convoluted financial structure. No-one has commented on the clear case of large-scale embezzlement by the founder’s brother.

And no-one has explained wht the entire Dem party in Congress won’t touch them with a bargepole.

375

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:33:55pm

re: #372 Merryweather

So let me get this straight. According to the far-righties:

The small number of soldiers who abused prisoners at Abu Ghraib were “a few bad apples”.
A small number of corrupt employee at ACORN means the entire organization is rotten to the core.

//That’s what I love about the far-right - their views are so consistent.

The folks at Aabu Ghraib were punished rather severely for their misdeeds, which were not, by any conceivable stretch of the imagination, commensurate with any interpretation of the purposes or practices of the armed forces. ACORN’s folk were defended vigorously by their leadership, who saw in their misdeeds little more than excessive enthusiasm for the cause.

376

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:35:19pm

re: #373 Guanxi88

Ah, reductio ad Beckam.

the fallacy also known as Bending the Truth like Beckam?/
Disagree with you but have to upding you for coming up with reductio ad beckam.

377

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:36:33pm

re: #372 Merryweather

“a small number of employees ?”

How about the founder’s brother’s embezzlement - and the cover-up ? That’s not some down-the-line stuff, it is right at the centre.

And how can a couple of kids with a ridiculous story get assistance from ACORN employees in a series of major cities ?

ACORN stinks. If you can’t see that, Lord help you.

378

Guanxi88 Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:37:04pm

re: #376 iceweasel

the fallacy also known as Bending the Truth like Beckam?/
Disagree with you but have to upding you for coming up with reductio ad beckam.

Bend it like Beck works.

Hell Yes:

Youtube Video

379

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:39:40pm

re: #372 Merryweather

You calling me far-right ? On what grounds ?

380

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:40:07pm

re: #369 JohninLondon

So if ACORN is pure as the driven snow - how come the Dems in Congress - without exception - dropped them like a hot chestnut ? Proof of the pudding, I’d say.

Great comment, it self-illustrates the fatuousness of your commentary.

First, I never said ACORN was “pure as the driven snow” you seem prone to baseless generalizations and poor reasoning.

Secondly, that the “Dems in Congress” may have acted in a certain way is your allegation, it could mean many things and proves nothing.

381

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:46:23pm

re: #375 Guanxi88

The folks at Aabu Ghraib were punished rather severely for their misdeeds, which were not, by any conceivable stretch of the imagination, commensurate with any interpretation of the purposes or practices of the armed forces. ACORN’s folk were defended vigorously by their leadership, who saw in their misdeeds little more than excessive enthusiasm for the cause

Not in the now infamous case where two students taped that ACORN employee supposedly giving them advice on prostitution before said employee reported the incident to police. And ACORN did exactly the same thing in several other cases.

I know that prisoner abuse went against all military principles and that it was an isolated case. My point was it’s hypocritical of the far right to demonize one organization based on one or two crooks while claiming another is just peachy and it’s just a couple of bad apples.

382

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:46:26pm

re: #380 Bagua

I would be intrigued to hear your reasons for the entire Dem party in Congress dropping ACORN, cutting them off without a cent.

A fit of collective madness ? Beck pulling their strings ? Divine intervention.

Why not just plain guilt, recognition that ACORN is corrupt ? The simple answer is usually the best.

And yes - you do strain to defend ACORN. And you avoid the specifics. Like the embezzlemet - still no denial from you.

383

3kids3dogs Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:48:19pm

re: #374 JohninLondon

For example - Bagua just did a big scree defending them, saying I had nil evidence. And others have been saying its is all paranoia, bigotry, whatever.

No-one has commented on why ACORN should have such a convoluted financial structure. No-one has commented on the clear case of large-scale embezzlement by the founder’s brother.

And no-one has explained wht the entire Dem party in Congress won’t touch them with a bargepole.

Bagua stated clearly that he is no big fan of ACORN. I’m not sure how you take that as a claim that ACORN is pure as the driven snow. Bagua also asked for proof of your list of allegations. We’re still waiting for that proof. As to the Dems not touching them, proof of their misconduct was shown and Congress decided not to give them any more funding. I think it was a bit of an overreaction but that is the current political climate - as you’ve more than ably shown. If they hadn’t done so you would be offering that as proof that the Dems are corrupt. Just come out and say that nothing anyone left of center does will be okay with you. You’ll save yourself and many others lots of typing.

384

Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:48:27pm

re: #377 JohninLondon

“a small number of employees ?”

How about the founder’s brother’s embezzlement - and the cover-up ? That’s not some down-the-line stuff, it is right at the centre.

And how can a couple of kids with a ridiculous story get assistance from ACORN employees in a series of major cities ?

ACORN stinks. If you can’t see that, Lord help you.

ACORm stinks to high Heaven. The way they take in money is only done by those who want to hide said money. Here’s a good primer on ACORN, it’s from 2003 but it’s still quite good. It’s also from City Journal, which does not write from a wingnut perspective:

ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities

385

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:48:31pm

re: #374 JohninLondon

For example - Bagua just did a big scree defending them, saying I had nil evidence. And others have been saying its is all paranoia, bigotry, whatever.

Silly boy, I didn’t “do a big scree defending them, saying I had nil evidence” I pointed out, item by item that you were being grossly unfair and jumping to all sorts of conclusions and yes, presenting no evidence to support your assertions.

No-one has commented on why ACORN should have such a convoluted financial structure.

Perhaps because in the absence of an allegation of impropriety based upon evidence, it is all just a bunch of speculation and inuendo on your part.

And no-one has explained wht the entire Dem party in Congress won’t touch them with a bargepole.

Well I did, what’s your hurry?

386

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:53:17pm

re: #381 Merryweather

It is not “one or two employees”. It is the founder’s brother’s embezzlement and the founder’s cover-up endorsed by the rest of the management, it is the multiplicity of voter-registration frauds ( and how many have not come to light ?), it is city after city playing along with the idea of importing under-age girls from San Salvador for prostitution. In one case - actively offering to assist in the transfer. It is the deliberate shell-game of myriad financial entities, obviously driven from the centre, it is the strenuous efforts to shut down the whistle-blowers.

A fish stinks from the head.

387

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:56:04pm

re: #377 JohninLondon

And how can a couple of kids with a ridiculous story get assistance from ACORN employees in a series of major cities ?

By trying over, and over, and over again until they found some employees dumb enough to talk to them, as well as by not reporting all the places where their trickse scheme failed to work, and finally, by ignoring the cases where the ACORN employees alerted the cops afterwards.

Throw in a little (!!) publicity by Andrew Breitblart, raconteur, wit and wingnut, the Fox News cycle, and the usual suspects, and you have the lifespan of the wingnut smear: like the mayfly, it will be struck down within 24 hours, but not until it has laid thousands of eggs that will themselves hatch and fly forth to breed others: Soros! ACORN! Obama! yea, even until the end of time.

It’s the circle of wingnut life!
Youtube Video

/if you listen closely, the animals are praying to Obama!
//and if you play it backwards, it says “I voted as Paul…twice.”

388

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:56:46pm

re: #382 JohninLondon

I would be intrigued to hear your reasons for the entire Dem party in Congress dropping ACORN, cutting them off without a cent.

Why should I come up with “reasons”? You are the one on the witch hunt, not I. In the absence of actual data why should I speculate on your fascinations?

A fit of collective madness ? Beck pulling their strings ? Divine intervention.

Sure, why not include the malevolent influence of the Tooth Fairy as you are straining so hard. Be inclusive.

Why not just plain guilt, recognition that ACORN is corrupt ? The simple answer is usually the best.

If the “simple answers” rely on innuendo and speculation then inferring guilt is indeed the “simple answers” of a simpleton.

And yes - you do strain to defend ACORN. And you avoid the specifics. Like the embezzlemet - still no denial from you.

If a member of ACORN was found guilty of a crime then it is appropriate that he should be punished, it does not, however, tar the entire group if it was the deed on an individual.

389

Merryweather Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:57:24pm

re: #382 JohninLondon

Why did the Dems drop ACORN like a hot potato? Because they’re politicians - they’ll do whatever is in their best interests, not because its the right thing to do. The Republicans did such a good job of demonizing ACORN in the public’s mind that the Dems saw it as politically expedient to punish them harshly and throw them under the bus. ACORN is a flawed organization, but it’s not the hotbed of fraud and corruption the Republicans are making it out to be.

390

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:59:37pm

re: #385 Bagua

Jumping to conclusions ?

The embezzlement ? You saying the NYT don’t lawyer-check their stories ?

The voter fraud ? How many more dozens of cases do you need ?

The arcane financial structure ? Just an accident ?

The multiple cases of assistance being blithely offered to a prostitution game using imported under-age girls ?

What level of proof do you need that ACORN is corrupt ?

391

Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 3, 2009 5:59:39pm

re: #385 Bagua

Many rational people believe that ACORN reeks out loud.

392

abolitionist Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:00:54pm

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

ACORm stinks to high Heaven. The way they take in money is only done by those who want to hide said money. Here’s a good primer on ACORN, it’s from 2003 but it’s still quite good. It’s also from City Journal, which does not write from a wingnut perspective:

ACORN’s Nutty Regime for Cities

Good bit of background/history there. Thanks for the link.

393

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:01:27pm

re: #387 iceweasel

That doesn’t explain why the entire Dem party in Congress dropped ACORN instantly.

I’d rate their collective judgment above the defenders of ACORN.

394

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:05:38pm

re: #391 Spare O’Lake

Many rational people believe that ACORN reeks out loud.

Nor are they on my list of favorite organisation I donate to. The points I made to JohninLondon were regarding his allegations and his statement that “I find it amazing that people here should be defending ACORN.”

In fact, no one here is “defending ACORN” against anything legitimate.

395

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:08:01pm

re: #389 Merryweather

The Dem party did not dump ACORN because the Republican Party had done a good job of demonising them. The GOP had done a crap job on ACORN,

it was the two young journos that blew the lid of the entire corrupt mess.

The GOP has been demonising PelosiCare for the whole year. That hasn’t induced Pelosi, Reid et al to drop their plans.

ACORN was dumped because it deserved to be dumped. Probably because a lot of decent Dems in Congress did not want any further association with it.

396

Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:08:43pm

re: #394 Bagua

Nor are they on my list of favorite organisation I donate to. The points I made to JohninLondon were regarding his allegations and his statement that “I find it amazing that people here should be defending ACORN.”

In fact, no one here is “defending ACORN” against anything legitimate.

They have many sins. What O’Keefe dug up is just the most visible. Opponents of the organization have latched on to those vids because they don’t require backstory and explanation, like explaining how ACORN grew out of the Cloward-Piven strategy does.

397

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:12:08pm

re: #394 Bagua

“No-one here is defending ACORN”

Then why are you and others in high dudgeon because I attack them - on a range of issues ?

Seems like you and a few others have been circling the wagons round ACORN. Not disputing the full NYT lawyer-checked story about big fat embezzlement of funds, trying to explain away why the Dem party ran a mile, not disputing the serial voter-registration frauds over many years, not commenting on the abstruse financial structure that looks like a shell-game - etc.

398

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:13:37pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

They have many sins. What O’Keefe dug up is just the most visible. Opponents of the organization have latched on to those vids because they don’t require backstory and explanation, like explaining how ACORN grew out of the Cloward-Piven strategy does.

Absolutely, and some of their members have faced prosecution as well. That does not mean, however, that they are guilty of everything and anything.

Don’t mistake challenging fatuous allegations and sweeping conclusions with defending or supporting them. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

399

Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:20:43pm

re: #398 Bagua

Absolutely, and some of their members have faced prosecution as well. That does not mean, however, that they are guilty of everything and anything.

Don’t mistake challenging fatuous allegations and sweeping conclusions with defending or supporting them. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Still, the point is not to prove specific charges. The political aim, is destroy ACORN with dirt. Making them seen like a shadowy, evil, organization is far more effective than a measured consideration of the merits of the charges. The goal is to destroy, not to convict. Or at least, that is my goal.

400

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:21:41pm

re: #397 JohninLondon

“No-one here is defending ACORN”

Then why are you and others in high dudgeon because I attack them - on a range of issues ?

Because your attacks are sweeping generalisations, innuendo and unsupported. A person can be guilty of shoplifting, even serially so, but that doesn’t make it a foregone conclusion that they are guilty of murder or whatever else one imagines.

In fact I never defend ACORN against well founded allegations. You are all over the place and you were attacking the posters here in general, a place were ACORN finds no love at all.

Seems like you and a few others have been circling the wagons round ACORN.

Nope, we have been highlighting the weakness of your arguments. Big difference.

Not disputing the full NYT lawyer-checked story about big fat embezzlement of funds, trying to explain away why the Dem party ran a mile, not disputing the serial voter-registration frauds over many years, not commenting on the abstruse financial structure that looks like a shell-game - etc.

Oh dear, “lawyer-checked” is it, LOL. How about all the Wal-Mart employees arrested for theft? Can we conclude Wal-Mart is Of The Devil also?

Proving a RICO case entitles more than finding a few guilty individuals. Many individuals can be corrupt on a case by case basis without the organisation being a criminal organisation.

401

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:23:10pm

re: #398 Bagua

If there was not enough dirt on ACORN, the Dem party without exception would not have dropped them.

And the Congressmen and their staffs know a damn sight more about ACORN than you or I. Like I said - I respect thei collective judgment.

You can stay above the fray, how-many-angels-on-the-head-of-a pin Jesuitical stuff. That’s your choice.

402

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:24:53pm

re: #399 Dark_Falcon

Still, the point is not to prove specific charges. The political aim, is destroy ACORN with dirt. Making them seen like a shadowy, evil, organization is far more effective than a measured consideration of the merits of the charges. The goal is to destroy, not to convict. Or at least, that is my goal.

Well fine then, at least you are honest that your intent is to smear with dirt and demonise ACORN as evil, whether justified or not.

The opponents of President Bush did the same and so are the opponents of President Obama are doing the same now.

Why bother with facts and reason at all when the sport is blood!

403

3kids3dogs Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:25:34pm

re: #383 3kids3dogs

Bagua stated clearly that he is no big fan of ACORN. I’m not sure how you take that as a claim that ACORN is pure as the driven snow. Bagua also asked for proof of your list of allegations. We’re still waiting for that proof. As to the Dems not touching them, proof of their misconduct was shown and Congress decided not to give them any more funding. I think it was a bit of an overreaction but that is the current political climate - as you’ve more than ably shown. If they hadn’t done so you would be offering that as proof that the Dems are corrupt. ~~Just come out and say that nothing anyone left of center does will be okay with you. You’ll save yourself and many others lots of typing~~.

The stricken portion of this post was unfair and uncalled for on my part. My sincere apologies.

404

goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:29:05pm

re: #399 Dark_Falcon

Still, the point is not to prove specific charges. The political aim, is destroy ACORN with dirt. Making them seen like a shadowy, evil, organization is far more effective than a measured consideration of the merits of the charges. The goal is to destroy, not to convict. Or at least, that is my goal.

At least you’re honest about not giving a rat’s ass about how your own integrity fares in the process.

405

Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:30:41pm

re: #402 Bagua

Well fine then, at least you are honest that your intent is to smear with dirt and demonise ACORN as evil, whether justified or not.

The opponents of President Bush did the same and so are the opponents of President Obama are doing the same now.

Why bother with facts and reason at all when the sport is blood!

It’s not sport. The object is wreck the other side’s political machine. Breaking a party’s organization is far more effective than refuting their arguments. The object is to get fiscally sane, socially non-wingnut Republicans elected, and wrecking ACORN is a good step towards fulfilling that goal.

406

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:31:28pm

re: #401 JohninLondon

If there was not enough dirt on ACORN, the Dem party without exception would not have dropped them.

And the Congressmen and their staffs know a damn sight more about ACORN than you or I. Like I said - I respect thei collective judgment.

You just keep repeating the same talking point over and over. It proves little in and of itself but have fun with it. You respect nothing from the “Dem party” unless it fits your bias, be honest.

You can stay above the fray, how-many-angels-on-the-head-of-a pin Jesuitical stuff. That’s your choice.

OK, thank you for your permission. Angels on a pin? You do rant on. Is this a do or die, with us or against us moment? Either you are with me, or you are with the Devil.

The “fray” was your casting aspersions on posters here and your faulty reason. I’m happy to counter and oppose ACORN with facts and reality, I don’t need to join in your fantasy world of good and evil.

407

Eclectic Infidel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:33:09pm

Anti-abortion bullies at polling locations!

Great PR for the Dems.

408

3kids3dogs Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:33:29pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

It’s not sport. The object is wreck the other side’s political machine. Breaking a party’s organization is far more effective than refuting their arguments. The object is to get fiscally sane, socially non-wingnut Republicans elected, and wrecking ACORN is a good step towards fulfilling that goal.

By any means necessary? I take it then that you approve of ACORN’s tactics.

409

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:34:36pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

It’s not sport. The object is wreck the other side’s political machine. Breaking a party’s organization is far more effective than refuting their arguments. The object is to get fiscally sane, socially non-wingnut Republicans elected, and wrecking ACORN is a good step towards fulfilling that goal.

Right, so the legitimacy of one’s allegations need not be tested? Well then, let’s jump on-board the sekrit Muslim and the Nirf thingy as well, facts, reason and truth be dammed, we got ourselves an election to win.

Think about your position here.

410

Eclectic Infidel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:35:26pm

re: #407 eclectic infidel

Anti-abortion bullies at polling locations!

Great PR for the Dems.

Mixed this response up from another posting. Oh well.

411

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #403 3kids3dogs

The stricken portion of this post was unfair and uncalled for on my part. My sincere apologies.

Thank you

412

Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:43:28pm

re: #408 3kids3dogs

By any means necessary? I take it then that you approve of ACORN’s tactics.

Not by any means. If O’Keefe had been making up his charges, I would have called him a liar and argued against him. It’s important to stick to matters where ACORN is in the wrong. The trick is know how to spin them to inflict maximum damage on the organization. Crazy charges are to be avoided precisely because they are crazy. Truly effective action does not stray into lies or insanity, but rather spins and attacks with an eye towards leaving the target soiled and looking scary.

413

iceweasel Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:44:46pm

re: #393 JohninLondon

That doesn’t explain why the entire Dem party in Congress dropped ACORN instantly.

I’d rate their collective judgment above the defenders of ACORN.

It’s already been explained to you, but you’re ignoring it. Merryweather nailed it here.
There’s this little game the wingnut noise machine likes to play. It’s like the ‘word of the day’ on Peewee’s Playhouse.

Youtube Video

It consists of telling all the outrage merchants to scream as LOUD AS THEY CAN when they hear the word of the day, whether it’s Soros, ACORN, Van Jones, or sec 1233. in HR3200. Youth in Asia! death panel!

Eventually, the wingnut screams are so loud that they drown out all possibility of rationsl discourse and moving forward, so the dems in desperation make some concession— ok, we’ll defund ACORN, throw em out of the census, anything, just so the census can move forward— in hopes that the wingnuts will start using their Inside Voices and a conversation can ensue. But it never does, because there is always a new word of the say.

Then the wingnuts point to the concession and say See? This proves we were right all along.

414

3kids3dogs Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #412 Dark_Falcon

Not by any means. If O’Keefe had been making up his charges, I would have called him a liar and argued against him. It’s important to stick to matters where ACORN is in the wrong. The trick is know how to spin them to inflict maximum damage on the organization. Crazy charges are to be avoided precisely because they are crazy. Truly effective action does not stray into lies or insanity, but rather spins and attacks with an eye towards leaving the target soiled and looking scary.

I appreciate the clarification. Because you used the term “dirt” in an earlier post it seemed to me that the truth of an allegation didn’t matter to you.

415

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:49:30pm

re: #406 Bagua

I repeat the point about the Dems dumping ACORN because you consistently fail to answer it.

Here’s some light reading on ACORN - I apologise if it has been posted before. Have a look at the financial structure - arcane or what ?

capitalresearch.org

And your ad hominem remarks - this last time that I live in a fantasy world of good and evil - don’t exactly add to debate. I’m too old to see things in utter black and whute. I have not called ACORN evil. I call it corrupt. And recognition of its corruption must have been part of the Dem party decision. They know more about ACORN than we do.

416

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:50:01pm

re: #413 iceweasel

You are correct, and let’s acknowledge the bad actors on the left did the same during most of the Bush presidency.

Wingnuts and Moonbats are flip sides of the same coin.

417

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:53:48pm

re: #413 iceweasel

I already refuted Merryweather’s point - if the Dems run scared of Republican demonising, how come they persist with the healthcare albatross?

And calling people wingnuts because they criticise ACORN is ad hominem and fatuous.

418

Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 6:58:30pm

re: #417 JohninLondon

I already refuted Merryweather’s point - if the Dems run scared of Republican demonising, how come they persist with the healthcare albatross?

And calling people wingnuts because they criticise ACORN is ad hominem and fatuous.

And putting words in iceweasel’s mouth activates the meter:

Youtube Video

419

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 7:11:05pm

re: #417 JohninLondon

I already refuted Merryweather’s point - if the Dems run scared of Republican demonising, how come they persist with the healthcare albatross?

Perhaps because one is a major piece of legislation they are promoting and the other is an activist group?

And calling people wingnuts because they criticise ACORN is ad hominem and fatuous.

Nope, it’s not, you don’t understand the meaning of ad hominem, nor is it even fatuous as your words and positions give great reason to suspect wing-nuttiness, you didn’t merely “criticise” ACORN, you flailed wildly at them.

420

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 7:12:07pm

re: #415 JohninLondon

I repeat the point about the Dems dumping ACORN because you consistently fail to answer it.

Yes, over, and over and over. It’s dull and doesn’t help your case.

And your ad hominem remarks - this last time that I live in a fantasy world of good and evil - don’t exactly add to debate.

I’m not sure you understand what ad hominem means, you are using it as a meme, not correctly.

I’m too old to see things in utter black and whute. I have not called ACORN evil. I call it corrupt.

Whatever, here is what you said.

Like I said - a disgrace to American democracy, ACORN stinks to high heaven.

Spin away, a corrupt disgrace that upsets heaven, but not evil. Clever.

And recognition of its corruption must have been part of the Dem party decision. They know more about ACORN than we do.

Right, back to the innuendo and the repeated talking points. They must know something we don’t know so guilty! It’s a witch!

You don’t debate, you circle and repeat.

Must have been, must have been, must have been. Repeat it three times and click your heals, you may end up in Kansas.

I’ve made my points, and they were not in support or defence of ACORN/Soros/Obama/Ayers, they were in criticism of your poor reasoning and lack of substance, and that is not ad hominem, it’s an observation.

I’ll leave you to your froth.

421

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 7:33:24pm

re: #419 Bagua

Rubbish.

I did not “flail wildly” at ACORN. I spelled out a series of criticisms.

Why don’t you argue straight, deal with the issues, rather than criticising people’s style ?

Any comments yet on ACORN’s financial structure ? Its been a long while now.

Or the embezzlement - you still pooh-pooh the NYT lengthy article ?

Did you see the HUNDREDS of cases of voter registration fraud ? No comments ?

And yes, you do argue ad hominem. Just check back over your posts, they are littered with examples. But it’s easier than dealing with the issues, I suppose.

Have a good evening.

422

Bagua Tue, Nov 3, 2009 7:49:14pm

re: #421 JohninLondon

Again, you do not understand the definition of ad hominem and are using it incorrectly, look it up and get back to me.

423

philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 3, 2009 8:21:41pm

re: #373 Guanxi88

I meant no disrespect. Nor did I mean that just because Beck says something it must be false. I just meant that I cannot see any justification for seeing acorn as being part of a complicated, and apparently secret, plot to bankrupt the gov’t. What I meant to say (and should have said) about Beck was just: do you have better reasons for your theory than Beck?

424

JohninLondon Tue, Nov 3, 2009 9:19:26pm

re: #422 Bagua

Again, you do not understand the definition of ad hominem and are using it incorrectly, look it up and get back to me.

How about “engaging in a personal attack as a means of ignoring, discrediting or blunting the force of another’s argument”

Some examples from your posts :

Post 346 “…you are on some sort of witch hunt”…

Post 364 “witch hunts are your department”

“let’s throw them all in jail, who needs charges and trials when we are going on our hunches, after all, they’e all Blacks, right, they must be guilty” - that seems to sum up your view”
(That was an outrageous thing for you to allege, in effect accusing me of racism - but I don’t suppose you’ll have the grace to apologise)

“you have a vivid imagination and a great deal of bias and no doubt bigotry”

Post 406 : “I don’t need to join in your fantasy world of good and evil”

“Your words and postings give great reason to suspect right-wing nuttiness”

425

mikhailtheplumber Tue, Nov 3, 2009 9:21:59pm

I feel like I shouldn’t like ACORN.
But then I see who are those who hate it, and my heart warms to this organization.

426

Randall Gross Wed, Nov 4, 2009 2:26:06am

re: #425 mikhailtheplumber

I’ll go with “The enemy of my enemy isn’t my friend”

427

Bagua Wed, Nov 4, 2009 8:34:56pm

re: #424 JohninLondon

How about “engaging in a personal attack as a means of ignoring, discrediting or blunting the force of another’s argument”
“

Nope, fail.

You are using the term incorrectly, as is very common these days on the internet by the semi-educated.

428

JohninLondon Thu, Nov 5, 2009 3:46:14am

re: #427 Bagua

You just can’t stop with the cheap jibes, can you ?

Man up and apologise for calling me a racist.

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