Antoine Dufour (harp guitar) and Tommy Gauthier (violin) play “Solitude,” from their latest album Still Strings. (Here it is at the iTunes Store.)
3 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:03:57pm |
starting to see these unusual instruments more and more...I can't remember a time when there were so many fine guitar musicians out there...I love guitars, any kind...from a harp to a Strat...you try to play one if you don't see the mystery
| 6 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:08:21pm |
*clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *woohoo*
| 8 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:10:11pm |
re: #5 albusteve
It's such a bummer that those harp guitars don't last very long. Too much tension from the extra stings. They eventually fold themselves in half as the soundboard sinks.
| 9 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:11:28pm |
re: #8 Killgore Trout
It's such a bummer that those harp guitars don't last very long. Too much tension from the extra stings. They eventually fold themselves in half as the soundboard sinks.
I guess sometimes beauty is fleeting and transitory...
| 10 |
Idle Drifter Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:12:49pm |
If I was not watching the video I'd think there was 3 musicians.
| 11 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:13:12pm |
Beautiful, very peaceful and easy to listen to.
| 12 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:14:26pm |
Oh man now that is the way to finish at work. everybody else is gone, I'm closing in 15 minutes, so I can crank it up some on my edit bay setup.
| 13 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:14:42pm |
re: #8 Killgore Trout
It's such a bummer that those harp guitars don't last very long. Too much tension from the extra stings. They eventually fold themselves in half as the soundboard sinks.
maybe they should do like Gibson did...a solid block down the body with F holes...a steel bar in the neck?...that was supremely innovative at the time
| 14 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:15:31pm |
re: #8 Killgore Trout
It's such a bummer that those harp guitars don't last very long. Too much tension from the extra stings. They eventually fold themselves in half as the soundboard sinks.
Maybe a good reinforced steel rod in there would help.
| 15 |
Spare O'Lake Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:17:03pm |
re: #13 albusteve
maybe they should do like Gibson did...a solid block down the body with F holes...a steel bar in the neck?...that was supremely innovative at the time
Heh.
| 16 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:17:39pm |
I liked the song, but not as much as a couple of their other pieces off this album, like this one:
| 17 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:19:55pm |
| 19 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:22:14pm |
re: #13 albusteve
Those steel bars only do so much. the real problem is the bridge. think about the torque. It wants to pull up from the back and and sink in the front. That's why guitars don't usually last as long as violins.
| 20 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:27:30pm |
re: #19 Killgore Trout
Those steel bars only do so much. the real problem is the bridge. think about the torque. It wants to pull up from the back and and sink in the front. That's why guitars don't usually last as long as violins.
that's why Gibson produced the 'arched top'...a steel bracket behind the bridge to the end of the body to absorb some of the tension off the bridge...Martin followed suit...jus sayin
| 21 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:29:21pm |
Glenn Beck on the collapse of the Dollar, New World Order and World Government...
Glenn Beck Show - Nov 17, 2009 - Pt 1 of 5 Damon Vickers
2009 - Pt 2 of 5 Damon Vickers
At 1:19 of part 2 Beck defends Alex Jones even though his guest claims it's a conspiracy theory. Vivkers is hardly one to diss somebody for conspiracy theories. Here's his appearance on Alex Jones...
[Link: eclipptv.com...]
| 22 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:29:29pm |
re: #20 albusteve
whoops...and an arched soundboard to defeat the folding that you describe
| 24 |
Racer X Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:30:38pm |
re: #16 Sharmuta
I liked the song, but not as much as a couple of their other pieces off this album, like this one:
[Video]
That one kicked ass!
| 25 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:30:41pm |
re: #20 albusteve
Also the tailpiece arrangement on arch top guitars avoids the problem just like a violin does.
| 27 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:35:30pm |
re: #21 Killgore Trout
The whole thing about all of those take- over- the- world- and make- us- like- it scenarios is...
there either isn't anyone out there big enough in the britches to pull it off, or Neo and Morpheus are still suckin' bubbles.
| 28 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:35:59pm |
re: #24 Racer X
That one kicked ass!
I really like this combination of Antoine and Tommy. They have great chemistry together, and I like their music. I thought Antoine as a solo artist was impressive. Adding Tommy has brought out a lot of additional creativity in AD, imo.
| 29 |
Racer X Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:39:11pm |
I saw a big-assed raccoon in my yard last night while watching the meteor shower. Dude stared me down for a minute, then scampered off. No sign of the rest of his family but I knew they were around. This is in L.A.
| 30 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:42:18pm |
re: #29 Racer X
Might have been pregnant. The last time I saw a raccoon that I'd call "big-assed" we saw "another" raccoon months later with two little babies.
| 31 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:45:30pm |
re: #2 Sharmuta
Weird. Suddenly the URL for my nic is missing.
You may need to log out and back in to get the URL back, or possibly just reload the page -- I changed something to fix a bug.
| 32 |
Racer X Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:46:32pm |
re: #30 Sharmuta
Might have been pregnant. The last time I saw a raccoon that I'd call "big-assed" we saw "another" raccoon months later with two little babies.
I've seen this family a few times now. A couple real big ones and a few smaller ones. He looked at me real tough - and I thought hard about running away screaming like a little girl - but then he turned and ran off. Kinda cool.
I love L.A.!
| 33 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:46:35pm |
re: #30 Sharmuta
This afternoon I played with the tag/ tag cloud you mentioned. Got it
working, but it still didn't point me to the Romanian video thread. My
guess is the assignment of tags is somewhat impressionistic. Next week
I'll bug the open thread about "spin-off links".
| 34 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:49:24pm |
re: #21 Killgore Trout
He's going the way the anarchists always do...
| 35 |
MandyManners Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:49:39pm |
Roasted chicken, purple-hull peas I put up this summer, corn I cut off the cob this summer and green beans and itty-bitty taters cooked with fat-back and rosemary.
*burp*
| 36 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:52:10pm |
re: #31 Charles
Just had a strange series of events- replied to a post in this thread, it posted in the previous thread, still open in another tab, but not this one.
Closed Firefox, pulled this thread up first and then previous thread, logged into previous thread, refreshed this page and it showed I had to log in again- which failed... closed/reopened tab and it came back up ok.
| 38 |
Cathypop Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:56:16pm |
re: #32 Racer X
I've seen this family a few times now. A couple real big ones and a few smaller ones. He looked at me real tough - and I thought hard about running away screaming like a little girl - but then he turned and ran off. Kinda cool.
I love L.A.!
Cute yes but they can attack. Rabies and justplain nasty. Found a raccoon skull in my backyard. Big teeth!
| 39 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:57:22pm |
re: #35 MandyManners
Roasted chicken, purple-hull peas I put up this summer, corn I cut off the cob this summer and green beans and itty-bitty taters cooked with fat-back and rosemary.
*burp*
Damn, that sounds mighty tasty...
| 40 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:58:01pm |
re: #38 Cathypop
Cute yes but they can attack. Rabies and justplain nasty. Found a raccoon skull in my backyard. Big teeth!
apparently something was nastier than that 'coon
| 41 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:58:29pm |
re: #34 freetoken
He's virtually identical to Alex Jones at this point. Beck has to soften a few things about the Bilderbergs and Jews for mainstream TV but the core philosophy is the same.
| 42 |
Cathypop Tue, Nov 17, 2009 4:59:33pm |
re: #40 Capitalist Tool
apparently something was nastier than that 'coon
Was told that it might have been another raccoon. There were 4 raccoons around the area at the time. Nice family.
| 43 |
Racer X Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:00:29pm |
re: #38 Cathypop
Cute yes but they can attack. Rabies and justplain nasty. Found a raccoon skull in my backyard. Big teeth!
Oh yeah. I've heard stories of when they attack. Hence my desire to run away.
| 44 |
MandyManners Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:00:40pm |
re: #39 talon_262
Damn, that sounds mighty tasty...
It was.
Now, if you're vewy, vewy quiet, you can here my arteries harden.
| 45 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:01:06pm |
re: #33 Decatur Deb
This afternoon I played with the tag/ tag cloud you mentioned. Got it
working, but it still didn't point me to the Romanian video thread. My
guess is the assignment of tags is somewhat impressionistic. Next week
I'll bug the open thread about "spin-off links".
Sometimes some tags have multiple pages, and it can take some time to find what you're looking for, but her video certainly had tags, and I would search the "creationism" tag or the "evolution" tag.
One of the trick I use when going through a tag with a lot of entries is to set the display number to the highest possible number of articles it will show per page, and then Ctrl-F for a key word I'm looking for. For example, when I use the tags for ron paul, I'll Ctrl-F for "nazi" when I'm looking for the article about him taking money from don black, or I'll use "stormfront" when I'm looking for the article with the picture ron paul had taken with don black.
Searching "creationism", I found the article immediately.
| 46 |
Ben G. Hazi Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:01:38pm |
re: #40 Capitalist Tool
apparently something was nastier than that 'coon
Raccoon Thunderdome...two coons enter, one coon leaves!
///
| 47 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:03:43pm |
re: #41 Killgore Trout
The "crash of the dollar" talk is standard gold-bug dogma, and it's been that way for as long as I can remember.
As for the one world government talk - you could dig out Hal Lindsey videos from 30 years ago and the spiel is the same.
Fundamental to both the gold-bugs and the revanchists is fear.
A non-trivial portion of the American public have very deep seated fears about their own position in life.
A good salesman will know how to make use of that.
| 48 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:03:46pm |
re: #45 Sharmuta
when I use the tags for ron paul, I'll Ctrl-F for "nazi"
Put that way, it sounds a lot more fun than it actually is.
| 49 |
philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:03:51pm |
Does anyone know of an online video or graphically/visually rich webpage that demonstrates how the climate skeptics are manipulating the science and/or making it seem that there is more of a "debate" than there really is? I'm thinking of the kind of thing that might be an eye-opener to someone who is somewhat informed about how science works, but not that well informed about this particular issue--and someone who probably won't read a long article without the graphics.
Thanks in advance.
| 50 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:05:06pm |
re: #45 Sharmuta
Thanks. Checked your link, mystery solved--I was three weeks off the time-frame.
| 51 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:05:11pm |
re: #48 wrenchwench
Put that way, it sounds a lot more fun than it actually is.
Why can't Charles code the tag viewer to intuitively know what I want? ///
| 52 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:05:23pm |
have had a big ole possum living under my shed out behind the workshop for more years than I can remember... he's so big and fat and huge now that he looks kind of distorted. Pretty much leave him alone these days, but have caught him and petted him a few times... just love that soft possum fur. He sure doesn't like it and always shows that mouth full of teeth, but the possum reflex kicks in and he can't do much, although he did tear up a semi- feral tomcat once which I'd been gradually tamin' down to the point that I had to put the cat down.
You could probably catch one o' those little coons and have a fun pet.
| 53 |
wrenchwench Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:07:14pm |
I went back to someone who recommended Roy Spencer's book to me and told him Spencer's a creationist, and that's all I had to say! That was a relief. I was expecting an argument about how he still could be credible on the topic of climate change, but I got something closer to an apology for the recommendation.
| 54 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:07:42pm |
re: #49 philosophus invidius
The videos at Greenmans channel are very informative while being entertaining graphically. These are the same ones that Charles often uses here in threads.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
| 55 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:08:37pm |
re: #49 philosophus invidius
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
| 56 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:09:27pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
Hip boots.
| 57 |
Racer X Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:09:40pm |
| 58 |
AmeriDan Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:09:51pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
No.
| 59 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:10:14pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
nope
| 60 |
Cathypop Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:10:14pm |
re: #52 Capitalist Tool
Only if you get one just born and before they open their eyes. Even then it's not a good idea. The animal will always be wild unlike a cat or dog.
| 63 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:11:24pm |
re: #49 philosophus invidius
re: #54 ausador
The videos at Greenmans channel are very informative while being entertaining graphically. These are the same ones that Charles often uses here in threads.
[Link: www.youtube.com...]
Oops, meant to add that his "Climate Denial Crook of the Week" series is very good and exposes how deniers manipulate the facts. It sounds like what you are looking for.
| 64 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:11:59pm |
| 65 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:12:43pm |
re: #64 Fenway_Nation
I don't know, but it has a lot of potential, and is the solution you asked for thinking it didn't exist.
| 66 |
philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:13:20pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
This doesn't answer your question, but I was watching this interesting (if biased) show, which suggests that "carbon credits" have unintended human consequences (displacement of forest dwellers) that liberals should perhaps be more concerned about.
[Link: www.pbs.org...]
| 67 |
AmeriDan Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:14:40pm |
| 68 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:15:26pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
they are joined at the hip...sorry
| 69 |
Bloodnok Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:15:36pm |
| 71 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:17:37pm |
re: #67 AmeriDan
Sooo... where will these "trees" be placed?
what happens if they fail?...how much CO2 can they absorb before they are bloated...then what?...all this CO2 to deal with...you cannot get rid of that stuff, it has to go somewhere
| 72 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:18:13pm |
re: #69 Bloodnok
Not In My Back Yard
/
There's probably a lot of truth in that. However, if people are compensated, they might be very willing to host such trees on their property. Money talks.
| 73 |
AmeriDan Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:19:05pm |
| 74 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:19:10pm |
| 75 |
brookly red Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:19:13pm |
re: #71 albusteve
what happens if they fail?...how much CO2 can they absorb before they are bloated...then what?...all this CO2 to deal with...you cannot get rid of that stuff, it has to go somewhere
into real trees?
| 76 |
Bloodnok Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:19:19pm |
re: #72 Sharmuta
There's probably a lot of truth in that. However, if people are compensated, they might be very willing to host such trees on their property. Money talks.
Alright. I'll take one then.
| 77 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:19:32pm |
clearly we need to figure out a way to transform CO2 into THC...problem solved
| 78 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:19:52pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
We've done a lot of AGW threads, but they seem to focus on "real or not".
I'd like to see a discussion of solutions, as you asked, and especially exploration of the possible reaction times. That is, are we already too
late for prevention, and must we focus on mitigation?
| 79 |
Bloodnok Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:20:08pm |
| 80 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:20:12pm |
re: #60 Cathypop
Only if you get one just born and before they open their eyes. Even then it's not a good idea. The animal will always be wild unlike a cat or dog.
oh... we used to catch 'em with monotonous regularity when i was a kid, and they were usually pretty good sized and a lot of fun... they are relatively tame- natured, but ornery little critters and will get into everything, including reaching into all of your pockets and crawling inside your shirt. They never seem to get over giving you a little bite every now and then, but they don't stay mad and quickly succumb to Cheetos and strawberry pop.
Somebody's dog come runnin' through the yard and those varmints would turn themselves into a living coonskin cap that no wind would blow off...
| 81 |
brookly red Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:21:18pm |
re: #77 albusteve
clearly we need to figure out a way to transform CO2 into THC...problem solved
nature has a way to do that too... but again gubermit regulations.
| 82 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:21:32pm |
re: #74 freetoken
Is that the new global currency from the New World Order?
Yes the checks are payable in "Yuan-meros" at the nearest "World Bank" branch.
| 83 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:22:35pm |
re: #71 albusteve
what happens if they fail?...how much CO2 can they absorb before they are bloated...then what?...all this CO2 to deal with...you cannot get rid of that stuff, it has to go somewhere
*sigh* From the link (I know, I know- they're hard to click):
According to the BBC, "The CO2 would then be removed from the filter and stored. The report calls for the technology to be developed in conjunction with carbon storage infrastructure."
And this is just one idea they're looking into. We don't know what sorts of innovations scientists and/or inventors will come up with that might be even better than these "trees". I think AGW is a serious issue, but I also have faith that we are capable of finding solutions. These trees sure beat the alternative of 7 feet of increased sea water.
| 84 |
Racer X Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:23:10pm |
I can understand fake teeth. Fake boobs I totally get. Fake trees?
I want my country back!
/
| 85 |
seamonkey Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:23:18pm |
Option 1: Admit global warming is real, develop green technologies, sell them to China
Option 2: Deny global warming, eke out remaining oil, buy green tech from China
| 86 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:24:34pm |
Wish me luck. I have negations going on here tonight for a big sale. I don't think I'm going to be able to sleep tonight.
| 87 |
brookly red Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:24:53pm |
don't plants convert co2 into o2? don't we just need more plants?
| 88 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:25:34pm |
Good evening everyone... I hope tonight finds everyone well!
| 89 |
Bloodnok Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:25:39pm |
re: #84 Racer X
I can understand fake teeth. Fake boobs I totally get. Fake trees?
I want my country back!
Fake Plastic Trees -Radiohead
| 90 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:25:40pm |
re: #87 brookly red
don't plants convert co2 into o2? don't we just need more plants?
This is why deforestation is such a problem. It's part of the feedback loops.
| 92 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:26:01pm |
re: #86 Killgore Trout
Wish me luck. I have negations going on here tonight for a big sale. I don't think I'm going to be able to sleep tonight.
Good luck!
I'm assuming what you have are negotiations going on, not negations.
| 94 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:26:22pm |
re: #88 CapeCoddah
Good evening everyone... I hope tonight finds everyone well!
CapeCoddah!
Been awhile!
| 95 |
avanti Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:26:23pm |
Tonight at 9 PM est, Hunt for the Samurai subs on National Geo..I never heard of the advanced subs sunk in 1946 that could launch planes and go around the world without refueling.
link.
| 96 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:26:36pm |
| 97 |
Bloodnok Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:26:56pm |
| 98 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:27:08pm |
re: #87 brookly red
don't plants convert co2 into o2? don't we just need more plants?
Plants grow by taking the carbon from c02 and exhaling the 02. But we're in a big enough hole that more plants won't really come close.
| 99 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:27:16pm |
re: #92 reine.de.tout
Heh, damn spell check fails me again!
| 100 |
brookly red Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:27:19pm |
re: #90 Sharmuta
This is why deforestation is such a problem. It's part of the feedback loops.
so maybe if we had more real trees we wouldn't need the expensive fake ones?
| 101 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:27:48pm |
{REINE} It has, sorry...chat burnout! How the heck are you?
Hey Blood... Brookley!
| 102 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:27:56pm |
re: #86 Killgore Trout
Good luck, Killgore! If you can't sleep, there is always the overnight thread.
| 103 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:28:29pm |
re: #100 brookly red
so maybe if we had more real trees we wouldn't need the expensive fake ones?
We're in too big of a hole.
| 104 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:28:36pm |
re: #65 Sharmuta
I don't know, but it has a lot of potential, and is the solution you asked for thinking it didn't exist.
To be blunt, it's a solution to a problem I don't think exists...or at best is overblown. Why resort to fake trees when governments are trying to give themselves the power to tell people what kind of light bulbs they can use, what kind of cars they can drive, what temperature they can keep the thermostat...and if the reallly wanna do some good for the environment, they can throw some money into an unregulated carbon offset scheme that will make subprime lending look like a wise investment by comparison. A few words from cap and trade's biggest pom-pom waver here only seems to confirm that.
re: #66 philosophus invidius
I remember hearing somewhere that these palm-oil plantations that they're setting up in Malaysia might be eligible for carbon offset funds, even though they're clearing away aready existing rainforests to expand the plantations. What a fucking joke- they get paid handsomely for the oil harvested and they get carbon offset funds for clearing away swaths of rainforests...
And these examples of genius are supposed to save the world?
| 106 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:29:24pm |
re: #102 Sharmuta
I haven't been on a overnight thread in ages. I've been trying to keep a regular schedule the past year or two.
| 107 |
CapeCoddah Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:29:34pm |
re: #86 Killgore Trout
Wish me luck. I have negations going on here tonight for a big sale. I don't think I'm going to be able to sleep tonight.
Good Luck KT!
| 108 |
brookly red Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:30:56pm |
re: #98 recusancy
Plants grow by taking the carbon from c02 and exhaling the 02. But we're in a big enough hole that more plants won't really come close.
/gee I guess we need the gubermint to save us...
No really, can't we just plant more freaking trees, they are very effcient, in fact so is corn & that would solve another problem too.
| 109 |
philosophus invidius Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:31:48pm |
re: #63 ausador
Thanks a bunch. I think I like the one about the Great Swindle the best since it is not focused on just one particular issue.
| 110 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:32:26pm |
re: #78 Decatur Deb
The complexity of human modifications to our pre-existing surroundings is enormous, and I greatly doubt that there is any single "solution".
We could spend all day here trying to just figure out what the cost of a single effect of AGW, say increased fall precipitation in the upper mid-west, accumulates to... much less trying find ways to mitigate that.
We will have to lie in the bed we make.
I mention to LVQ (to his chagrin) that I believe we need to be in triage mode at this point. I also believe (though can not prove beyond any doubt) that our social momentum, the inherent group decision making process we have created over the past millennium or so, is going to take us places we otherwise would not want to go.
There is no easy answer to the replacement of oil products for transportation. Modernity is now built upon electricity and it would take a generation (40 years) to replace the coal fueled electricity generating plants with nuclear.
So, in abating AGW, the choice before us is how messy of bed (in which we must lie) we are willing to accept.
| 111 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:32:29pm |
re: #35 MandyManners
We are fixing up rib-eye, Malbec wine, fast sauteed onions and salad wraps with bleu cheese, green onion, tomato, avocado etc. Oh and wild rice. Then its NCIS LA for entertainment. Not bad for a work night.
| 112 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:33:01pm |
re: #55 Fenway_Nation
Can anybody find me any proposed solutions to AGW that don't involve ever-increasing governmental encroachment into the private sector or businesses and indivuduals being regulated by unaccountable bureaucrats?
Actually, there was some guy who realized that iron added to seawater acts as a catalyst of sorts for mineral uptake by various algal and phytoplanktonic growth, which is true.
He actually devised a scheme to spread iron in the Pacific to spur the growth of algae, etc, which would grow and sequester carbon on a massive scale and eventually die and sink to the depths, taking the carbon with them.
He hired and loaded a ship with several tons of microfine iron is some form and was prevented from putting to sea at the last minute by the Chilean gov't., if memory serves. Almost all the "environmentally enlightened" nations of the world lined up against him and saw to it that his efforts were halted. At least they didn't kill him.
A spokesman for Friends of the Earth, or Sierra Club, or some such (swiss cheese memory again) said at the time in an interview, when asked why his and other environmental groups brought so much pressure to stop the guys efforts, that yes, the guy's plan would have worked, but that it didn't fit with their agenda.
Make of this what you will.
| 113 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:34:20pm |
re: #110 freetoken
In other words, I should get back to Venice while I can.
| 114 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:34:21pm |
re: #112 Capitalist Tool
Actually, there was some guy who realized that iron added to seawater acts as a catalyst of sorts for mineral uptake by various algal and phytoplanktonic growth, which is true.
He actually devised a scheme to spread iron in the Pacific to spur the growth of algae, etc, which would grow and sequester carbon on a massive scale and eventually die and sink to the depths, taking the carbon with them.
He hired and loaded a ship with several tons of microfine iron is some form and was prevented from putting to sea at the last minute by the Chilean gov't., if memory serves. Almost all the "environmentally enlightened" nations of the world lined up against him and saw to it that his efforts were halted. At least they didn't kill him.A spokesman for Friends of the Earth, or Sierra Club, or some such (swiss cheese memory again) said at the time in an interview, when asked why his and other environmental groups brought so much pressure to stop the guys efforts, that yes, the guy's plan would have worked, but that it didn't fit with their agenda.
Make of this what you will.
Got a link for that?
| 115 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:34:25pm |
re: #109 philosophus invidius
Thanks a bunch. I think I like the one about the Great Swindle the best since it is not focused on just one particular issue.
Your welcome.
| 116 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:36:58pm |
re: #104 Fenway_Nation
Fen- I don't give a crap about the BS solutions from the left- you know that. If we as conservatives want to have better options than the BS the left has suggested, than things like these "trees" are where we should be looking.
You will note that when you asked for a solution that didn't involve leftist nonsense, I did give you one that is actually more right-wing in nature in that it's innovative and bypasses the need for intrusive, government regulated nonsense that does nothing to correct the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.
| 117 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:37:02pm |
re: #114 recusancy
Got a link for that?
Oh, bother... have links somewhere.
All right, but i haven't had supper yet.
Can I take a pass for about 20 minutes while I go get my Chinese take-out?
in the meantime, Google away...
I promise to deliver what i can upon return
| 118 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:38:47pm |
re: #116 Sharmuta
Fen- I don't give a crap about the BS solutions from the left- you know that. If we as conservatives want to have better options than the BS the left has suggested, than things like these "trees" are where we should be looking.
You will note that when you asked for a solution that didn't involve leftist nonsense, I did give you one that is actually more right-wing in nature in that it's innovative and bypasses the need for intrusive, government regulated nonsense that does nothing to correct the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.
Government would still need to pay form the 'trees'.
| 119 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:40:48pm |
re: #112 Capitalist Tool
He was going to do it in the Indian Ocean, and yeah the enviromentalists went ballistic saying the algae blooms would use up the oxygen in the water and kill off all the fish etc, etc...
| 120 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:42:32pm |
re: #119 ausador
He was going to do it in the Indian Ocean, and yeah the enviromentalists went ballistic saying the algae blooms would use up the oxygen in the water and kill off all the fish etc, etc...
Yeah... That's what I was thinking. Basically creating a toxic red tide. Not exactly a sound solution.
| 121 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:46:26pm |
re: #113 Decatur Deb
In other words, I should get back to Venice while I can.
What can I say... none of us is promised a "tomorrow."
Seriously, this is at the heart of the matter. Humans by nature, by evolution, have attention spans of around one day, with a large discounting of the future built into our thinking process.
Given the nature of the animal (Homo sapiens), working against our built in traits is almost a futile attempt.
The development of agriculture and civilization around 10 to 15 thousand years ago was a big step for our species.
Figuring out how to live on the only planet we have, for the next 10 thousand years, is the next big step.
There is no guarantee of success in the great game of survival of the fittest.
| 122 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:46:43pm |
re: #114 recusancy
Got a link for that?
Here is one story about the experiment...
[Link: www.newscientist.com...]
Seems it didn't work as well as advertised either...
[Link: www.newscientist.com...]
Shrimp ate all the algae, lmao.
| 124 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:49:07pm |
re: #123 Racer X
The squirrels will be pissed.
Heh... we can put fake squirrels in the fake trees...
| 125 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:49:25pm |
re: #116 Sharmuta
Noted. Assuimg it performed as advertised, I still think it would be overlooked for the sake of exerting more control over the population with more cumbersome rules and regulations.
Those eeevil right wingers whipping up public hysteria over terrorism is apparently twisted and wrong. The Sierra club douchebags and their enablers telling everyone the world's going to end in a Roland Emmerichian orgy of rising seas and collapsing continents courtesy of their 22-mile commute in a '98 Nissan Stanza is somehow more enlightened and acceptable.//
| 126 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:51:54pm |
re: #124 freetoken
Heh... we can put fake squirrels in the fake trees...
Beware those robot squirrels, they can be tricksie buggers...
| 127 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:52:54pm |
re: #121 freetoken
What can I say... none of us is promised a "tomorrow."
Seriously, this is at the heart of the matter. Humans by nature, by evolution, have attention spans of around one day, with a large discounting of the future built into our thinking process.
Given the nature of the animal (Homo sapiens), working against our built in traits is almost a futile attempt.
The development of agriculture and civilization around 10 to 15 thousand years ago was a big step for our species.
Figuring out how to live on the only planet we have, for the next 10 thousand years, is the next big step.
There is no guarantee of success in the great game of survival of the fittest.
I'm looking for "muddling through" time, because that is the human default strategy. If reducing greenhouse gases radically and quickly wouldn't
prevent a runaway, the political sell for action gets tough.
| 128 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:55:33pm |
re: #127 Decatur Deb
I'm looking for "muddling through" time, because that is the human default strategy. If reducing greenhouse gases radically and quickly wouldn't
prevent a runaway, the political sell for action gets tough.
The political sell should be parallel to a deficit hawk. By that I mean those worried about the future because of our deep deficit should also be worried about the future because of our carbon deficit. I don't understand why it's not sold in that way.
| 129 |
Pepper Fox Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:55:34pm |
Does this guy's instrument have a name? Or is it just some custom made thing.
| 130 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:55:43pm |
if they don't hire you KT it's their loss...hitch it up and whatever happens will just happen...life goes on
| 131 |
albusteve Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:56:28pm |
| 132 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:56:28pm |
re: #125 Fenway_Nation
But that's the whole point in the right stopping with the denial. We will be forced into crap solutions by the left if we don't come to the table with something better. Instead of going to the table with something WE find more agreeable and that won't hurt the economies of our country and others, we are in "LALALALALA! Can't HEAR yooouuu" mode. It has to stop.
Agreeing with the science of AGW isn't the same as accepting the left's solutions. And if we can come up with better solutions, my guess is that people will listen and want them more than the left's ideas. I mean really. Would you rather have a fake tree farm sucking up CO2, or utility rate hikes?
| 133 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:57:13pm |
re: #129 Pepper Fox
Does this guy's instrument have a name? Or is it just some custom made thing.
Uh...
Antoine Dufour (harp guitar) and Tommy Gauthier (violin) play “Solitude,” from their latest album Still Strings.
| 134 |
recusancy Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:58:10pm |
re: #132 Sharmuta
But that's the whole point in the right stopping with the denial. We will be forced into crap solutions by the left if we don't come to the table with something better. Instead of going to the table with something WE find more agreeable and that won't hurt the economies of our country and others, we are in "LALALALALA! Can't HEAR yooouuu" mode. It has to stop.
Agreeing with the science of AGW isn't the same as accepting the left's solutions. And if we can come up with better solutions, my guess is that people will listen and want them more than the left's ideas. I mean really. Would you rather have a fake tree farm sucking up CO2, or utility rate hikes?
Who pays for the fake tree farm? I'm for the idea. I just don't see how government doesn't play a role in it.
| 135 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 5:59:27pm |
re: #132 Sharmuta
(snip)
Agreeing with the science of AGW isn't the same as accepting the left's solutions. And if we can come up with better solutions, my guess is that people will listen and want them more than the left's ideas. I mean really. Would you rather have a fake tree farm sucking up CO2, or utility rate hikes?
At the moment, agreeing with the AGW science almost makes you a leftist. Ask around.
| 136 |
Pepper Fox Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:01:08pm |
re: #132 Sharmuta
My views on this environmentalism stuff is just do the common sense crap like recycle, don't leave the lights on, if you can afford it throw up a wind generator or solar panels and don't drive a low mileage car (btw 25mpg is NOT high mileage, though it is in a relative sense in America which is sad). If you're really concerned about the global state go get India and China to do something about their crap. I'm also looking forward to Obama's plan to upgrade out power grid and hopefully get more nuclear power.
| 137 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:02:29pm |
re: #127 Decatur Deb
I'm looking for "muddling through" time, because that is the human default strategy. If reducing greenhouse gases radically and quickly wouldn't
prevent a runaway, the political sell for action gets tough.
The decision we have to make is this: of the remaining hydrocarbons (near the surface of the Earth, at which we have access), which ones are we going to leave in the ground and which ones shall we extract and burn?
The more we extract, the greater the probability of causing very significant changes to the climate.
The "muddling through" case is the "business as usual" (BAU) process - that is what we do, as you noted.
This doesn't even touch on the issues of land use (itself a driver in GW), or on the mass extinction that humans are causing regardless of the magnitude of AGW.
Here in the US we are blessed with perhaps the best balance of resources... we will not be the biggest losers on the planet. Knowing this, if only intuitively, Americans become hard to be convinced that actions are important. From a cost-benefit basis, many Americans are tempted to say "screw the World, look out for #1". Only when the environmental negatives hit home is there an incentive to act.
| 138 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:06:01pm |
everybody grow some more houseplants- one person's annual CO2 from breathing is compensated for by a surprisingly small patch of grass- somethin like 5x10 feet- don't quote me
dang- can barely type around these boxes o' chow
| 139 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:09:00pm |
re: #137 freetoken
There is an Economy of Concern at play. Too little, and we don't move
from BAU to directed muddling. Too much panic and decisionmakers will
fall into fatigue and despair. Someone close to the math and literature
could describe the sweet spot, I can't.
| 140 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:14:12pm |
re: #128 recusancy
The political sell should be parallel to a deficit hawk. By that I mean those worried about the future because of our deep deficit should also be worried about the future because of our carbon deficit. I don't understand why it's not sold in that way.
The fear, and it's probably justified, is that addressing the carbon deficit
would worsen the fiscal hole, at least for the short run.
| 141 |
Sharmuta Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:37:47pm |
re: #134 recusancy
Who pays for the fake tree farm? I'm for the idea. I just don't see how government doesn't play a role in it.
And the government likely should play a role in it because AGW affects all of us. But this sort of government involvement isn't the sort that many on the right would have a problem with because it's not hurting businesses or imposing draconian solutions on citizens.
| 142 |
Virginia Plain Tue, Nov 17, 2009 6:51:39pm |
| 143 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:16:44pm |
re: #112 Capitalist Tool
Here's a layman's look at the idea of adding iron to the oceans to increase carbon sequestration, an idea originally attempted by an outfit called PLANKTOS, a firm now on hold, but maintaining a blog. There were attempts to duplicate Planktos efforts as recently as this year by a German team, but again, they were thwarted by a government agency.
Interestingly, at the end of the piece about the German attempt, Stanford scientist Ken Caldeira (an opponent of iron- seeding) is cited: Caldeira does not believe companies should be allowed to sell carbon credits in return for fertilising the oceans. He says this would simply encourage companies to continue emitting greenhouse gases.
Caldeiras sentiments echo the paraphrase discussed in cited post above, (sorry haven't yet found the link) - a major environmentalist had earlier said that "We know Planktos' scheme would work, but it doesn't fit our agenda" (again, paraphrased)
The environmentalists claims are fear- based and center around unknown consequences of iron fertilization.
Their claims are a pale attempt to hide an agenda, in light of the fact that marine life depends on large influxes of annual winds bearing Saharan iron- rich dust.
Other studies have shown that iron fertilization could prove a boon to world fisheries.
In the interest of continuing in the vein of how this simplistic carbon sequestration scheme could actually work and without destroying the Western world's economic base, here's a most interesting quote:
" Full-scale iron fertilization of the Southern Ocean must be ruled out simply because major cooling of the region by increased DMS would result in a temperature drop of perhaps 10 degrees Celsius or more," Wingenter says. "Massive fertilization would severely impact not only the Southern Ocean, but also summertime temperatures and agriculture in parts of Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Chile, and Argentina." link
If it's really that easy to throw all of Al Gore and the IPCC's whinings out with the kitchen's sweepings, then what are we waiting for- and why do various governments keep standing in the way?
| 144 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:25:03pm |
All right. Someone just down-dinged my last post- you want to tell me why?
| 145 |
freetoken Tue, Nov 17, 2009 8:34:31pm |
re: #144 Capitalist Tool
All right. Someone just down-dinged my last post- you want to tell me why?
Linking to a WUWT as an authoritative source will usually get a down-ding from me... I feel about WUWT the same way that Charles feels about AiG.
Also, your last paragraph is very off base... many here either know about or care about these issues, without any pretense to believing in some sort of conspiracies by governments to stand "in the way" of a perfect solution. Indeed, your claim is too similar to those who claim that they've invented the perfect carburetor (that will allow cars to get hundreds of miles to the gallon) only to have their invention snatched away by the gov't (or big oil, or GM, or some other boogeyman.)
| 146 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 9:22:51pm |
re: #145 freetoken
Linking to a WUWT as an authoritative source will usually get a down-ding from me... I feel about WUWT the same way that Charles feels about AiG.
Also, your last paragraph is very off base... many here either know about or care about these issues, without any pretense to believing in some sort of conspiracies by governments to stand "in the way" of a perfect solution. Indeed, your claim is too similar to those who claim that they've invented the perfect carburetor (that will allow cars to get hundreds of miles to the gallon) only to have their invention snatched away by the gov't (or big oil, or GM, or some other boogeyman.)
I don't know what a WUWT is... and I think you mean Charles stance on AGW (AiG). It's my observation that Charles allows and encourages reasonable debate on issues here, as long as information is backed up with news sources, which is about all that I linked to... people had asked me to back up earlier statements with links, which I did.
Everything I linked can be found in many forms, all over the web, from all manner of sources, covering both sides of the debate. I didn't link to anything as authoritive... just informational. You can see that for your self.
Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean about my last paragraph (although it was sort of an afterthought). I linked to 2 examples of how governments had stopped experimentation which may have some proved some aid to stopping the rise of atmospheric CO2. I fail to see a conspiracy in that, least of all, something as silly as the 200 mpg carburetor. That's a big- ol' strawman and you should know better.
I care about these issues also, or wouldn't spend my time talking about them.
If you have valid points to make rather than blind dings and straw man arguments, lets hear 'em.
I might be wrong in my understanding, but you might be even more wrong.
Let's hear where what I said is wrong.
and what's a WUWT?
| 147 |
Capitalist Tool Tue, Nov 17, 2009 9:26:15pm |
Ok , I just reread my last paragraph and it is rather conspiratorial... don't you just love a good conspiracy theory?
let me get Whitley Strieber on the phone...
| 148 |
ghazidor Tue, Nov 17, 2009 11:51:29pm |
re: #147 Capitalist Tool
Ok , I just reread my last paragraph and it is rather conspiratorial... don't you just love a good conspiracy theory?
let me get Whitley Strieber on the phone...
See my post #122 for links, this has been tried by more than one group, the iron filings thing has been used in the field to test it, no one stopped them. In fact several governments backed their efforts, Planktos was stopped because they wanted to do it right next to the Galapagos islands and over the sensitive reefs there. Anyway it has been tried and the results were disappointing in actual trials, it is not the panacea some claim it to be.
| 149 |
Capitalist Tool Wed, Nov 18, 2009 4:26:23am |
re: #148 ausador
See my post #122 for links, this has been tried by more than one group, the iron filings thing has been used in the field to test it, no one stopped them. In fact several governments backed their efforts, Planktos was stopped because they wanted to do it right next to the Galapagos islands and over the sensitive reefs there. Anyway it has been tried and the results were disappointing in actual trials, it is not the panacea some claim it to be.
Thanks Ausador
Didn't see your post- was busy trying to find my old links to support OP (should've had them handy- sorry) so had to find some new ones- looks like you and I pulled up some of the same ones and cited Ken Caldeira, known for his warnings against most engineered carbon sequestration ideas.
Iron seeding may also increase ocean acidity, which wouldn't be good.
The first major effort at iron- seeding was blocked and the latest effort was also blocked.
That was the whole point of OP that people asked for lniks- found a bit of info supporting OP and new info as well (which you'd also posted). There may be good reasons to prevent the tests- or maybe not, we'll see.
There is some interesting info we've found- the first being a possible boost to marine life (which is sequestration in itself, when you think about it) and the second, something stated in this link, which suggests that yes, iron seeding works as stated, but might work too well and needs moderation. Not sure whee these guys get their info, but apparently someone has had some success at iron- seeding or they wouldn't have said what they did- that too much fertilization of southern oceans could cause a large reverse temperature swing.
It seems that a go slow approach to engineered methods may be best.
That includes economic/market/tax engineering, which are the only solutions being considered by governments, which addresses Fenway_Nation's original question which led to my OP.
The Cause of the Rain Here? dryad, in Greek mythology, a nymph or nature spirit who lives in trees and takes the form of a beautiful young woman. Dryads were originally the spirits of oak trees (drys: “oak”), but the name was later applied to ...
William Lewis
Uncommon US Flags #3: Storm Warning Flags Indianola, Texas after the Civil War became the principal port for the state, due to its location on Matagorda Bay. The town steadily grew as commerce, tourism, and agriculture expanded. In 1875, a powerful Category 3 hurricane struck Indianola, ...
Anymouse 🌹🏡😷
A Friday at the Tail End of SpringJust out and about for a bit. First a walk downtown where the two rivers meet, then a short drive just outside of town. William Lewis
This Civil War Submarine Vanished for 136 Years [VIDEO] A Civil War submarine powered by hand cranks and lit by candlelight. What could possibly go wrong? Meet the HL Hunley. Support the production of these videos through our Patreon: patreon.com Thank you to Nick DeLong from Clemson University ...
teleskiguy
Billions in US Taxpayer Dollars Now Go to Religious Schools via Vouchers Billions in taxpayer dollars are being used to pay tuition at religious schools throughout the country, as state voucher programs expand dramatically and the line separating public education and religion fades. School vouchers can be used at almost any ...
Cheechako
Adobe Caught Selling AI Generated Images Imitating Ansel Adams’ Work Adobe scolded for selling ‘Ansel Adams-style’ images generated by AI Adobe found itself in hot water this weekend after the Ansel Adams estate publicly scolded the company for selling generative AI imitations of the late photographer’s work. On Friday, ... William Lewis
The Good Liars at The Libertarian Convention [VIDEO] The Good Liars visit the Libertarian Convention in Washington DC. They interview presidential candidates, talk to someone who thinks people should be allowed to own nuclear weapons, and Starchild. SUPPORT US: herohero.co SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!NASHVILLE, TN JUNE ... teleskiguy
Adam Conover - How Google RUINED the Internet [VIDEO] Google sucks now. Here's why. Get 20% off DeleteMe US consumer plans when you go to joindeleteme.com and use promo code ADAM at checkout. DeleteMe International Plans: international.joindeleteme.com You may have noticed that Google isn't what it used to ... teleskiguy
What Result Will There Be From the Trump Trial?I did my best to boil this down. What say you?
Rightwingconspirator
The Good Liars at Miami Trump Rally [VIDEO] Jason and Davram talk with Trump supporters about art, Mike Lindell, who is really president and more! SUPPORT US: herohero.co SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!LOS ANGELES, CA squadup.com SUBSCRIBE TO OUR AUDIO PODCAST:Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.comSpotify: open.spotify.comJoin this channel to ... teleskiguy
